In the wake of an explosive new allegation that the CIA spied on Senate intelligence committee staffers, one senator felt this morning that he needed to make something clear.
“The Senate Intelligence Committee oversees the CIA, not the other way around,” Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-N.M) said in a press release.
In normal circumstances, that would have been a statement of the obvious. Today, it was more a cry for help.
McClatchy News Service on Tuesday reported that the CIA’s inspector general has asked for a criminal investigation into CIA monitoring of computers used by Senate aides who were investigating the agency’s prominent role in the Bush-era torture of detainees.
Specifically, McClatchy reported: “The committee determined earlier this year that the CIA monitored computers – in possible violation of an agreement against doing so – that the agency had provided to intelligence committee staff in a secure room at CIA headquarters that the agency insisted they use to review millions of pages of top-secret reports, cables and other documents, according to people with knowledge.”
In a letter to President Obama on Tuesday, Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) referred to what he called “unprecedented action against the Committee in relation to the internal CIA review,” and described it as “incredibly troubling for the Committee’s oversight responsibilities and for our democracy.”
The allegation comes on the heels of a fruitless quest by members of the House and Senate to get NSA officials to confirm or deny whether information on phone calls by members of Congress has been swept up in the agency’s metadata dragnet. (Since it’s so indiscriminate, presumably they have, but the NSA won’t say so.)
The Senate report at the heart of this confrontation took four years to complete, runs 6,000 pages, and was adopted by the committee in December 2012. It is said to be highly critical of both the CIA’s role in the torture regime and its public protestations of innocence. But the White House, under ferocious lobbying by the CIA, has refused to declassify it.
Most recently, controversy has arisen over an internal CIA report that was reportedly critical of the agency’s practices, but was withheld from Senate investigators.
Heinrich, in his statement, complained: “Since I joined the Committee, the CIA has refused to engage in good faith on the Committee’s study of the CIA’s detention and interrogation program. Instead, the CIA has consistently tried to cast doubt on the accuracy and quality of this report by publicly making false representations about what is and is not in it.”
The resistance to oversight about torture mirrors similar problems legislators have experienced when it comes to trying to monitor surveillance programs and other secret activities, with one huge exception: The torture report was championed and endorsed by Senate intelligence committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and other senior members of that committee. By contrast, Feinstein and House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) have emerged as the strongest defenders of surveillance activity, leaving the so-far-losing battle for disclosure to be fought by more rebellious legislators.
The consistent theme is that members of Congress are finding themselves at an ever-increasing disadvantage when it comes to even finding out what intelligence agencies are doing — not to mention reining them in.
More often, the only way members of Congress can pierce the veil of secrecy is through classified briefings. But those briefings are often problematic, some members of Congress say. First, it’s too easy for briefers to give them the runaround — and then they feel circumscribed in what they can say publicly.
For those reasons, some members, like Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wisc.) generally avoid secret briefings. A Sensenbrenner spokesman recently told MSNBC the congressman “does not want to be limited by the restraints of confidentiality.”
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) said on Tuesday that he felt limited in what he could say in response to documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.
“We were stuck, because if you’re a member of Congress you are not a declassifier and even if something is out there, unless it has been formally declassified, you can be arrested for commenting on or echoing things, even if they’re out in the public domain, because now you’re confirming it to be true,” he said.
The unlikelihood of such a spectacle aside, any member can always go to the floor and say whatever they want. The U.S. Constitution Article 1, Section 6, specifically protects senators and representatives from such repercussions, stating that “for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.”
Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) famously responded to Attorney General Eric Holder’s contention that senators had been “fully briefed” on surveillance programs at a June 2013 Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing by saying: “‘Fully briefed’ doesn’t mean that we know what’s going on.”
Here is video of Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) describing the futility of getting information in intelligence briefings for members of Congress at the Cato Institute in October 2013: “You’ll find that it’s just a game of 20 questions,” he said. But “you don’t know what questions to ask…. You don’t have any idea what kind of things are going on.”
You have to start just spitting out random questions. Does the government have a moon base? Does the government have a talking bear? Does the government have a cyborg army? If you don’t know what kind of things the government might have, you just have to guess and it becomes a totally ridiculous game of twenty questions. If you ask something in slightly the wrong way, they will tell you no. They’ll say No , we don’t do that. Or NO, that agency doesn’t do that. Maybe some other agency does it, but they’re not going to tell you that…. Or no, we can’t do that under this program, but we can do it under this program.. they don’t tell you that information… but you don’t know what the other programs are.
So, the right hand really doesn’t know anything about what the left hand is doing, and it turns out what it’s doing is covering Uncle Sam’s eyes and plugging his ears. Next, it will be wrapping itself around Uncle Sam’s neck…….
When the Philistines captured Samson, they cut off his hair, and gouged out his eyes so that he could not see.
But Samson’s hair is growing back. It’s almost time to bring the temple down on the heads of the Philistines. The pillars are crumbling… let’s give them a push.
US senator and intelligence committee chair accuses CIA of intimidation in effort to block publication of controversial torture report
Dan Roberts and Spencer Ackerman in Washington
theguardian.com, Tuesday 11 March 2014 14.46 GMT
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/11/feinstein-accuses-cia-intimidation-torture-report
The Inverse of Government: The People Spies On The NSA
Hi NSA! How do you like our Intercept?
Accountability for torture ACLU
https://www.aclu.org/accountability-torture
Of all the similar narratives of outrage, why is no one – NO ONE – calling for a special prosecutor to go after Obama, Clapper, et al?! Congress is empowered to do this. Why is NO ONE leaning on congressional leaders to do this? The bitching needs to give way to prosecutorial pursuits.
No one wants to risk giving up their careers?
Or Their Lives?
Maybe this article will help explain to you why this won’t happen :
Title : CIA caught spying on US Senate
10 March 2014 nsws.org
Third paragraph :
“The revelations of CIA spying on Congress underscore the fact that America is run by an unelected, unaccountable military/intelligence apparatus. It is this apparatus, in conjunction with the corporate-financial elite, that dictates official policy in Washington, irrespective of which political party is in power”.
Link to full publication :
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/10/pers-m10.html
The Democrats don’t want to go after one of their own. The Republicans don’t want to hamstring a future Republican president from doing the exact same things, nor do they want to unearth the skeletons of the Bush Admin that Obama has done so much to bury. They’d love to impeach Obama but not for this.
“The committee determined earlier this year that the CIA monitored computers – in possible violation of an agreement against doing so – that the agency had provided to intelligence committee staff in a secure room at CIA headquarters that the agency insisted they use to review millions of pages of top-secret reports, cables and other documents, according to people with knowledge.” (qouted from article above).
The HDs of the staffers may have been searched for what is alleged they searched for. Or they may have searched for something quite different than the purposes for which we are led to believe they were searched for.
A scandal, largely unknown to most Americans and camouflaged as a ‘fight against terrorism’, and far more potentially explosive and damaging than the tortures in Baghram, Abu Ghraib and Gitmo simmers angrily just beneath the surface, waiting for the pressure to finally bubble over. While the papers focus on physical torture of yesteryear in the above mentioned locations, the torture industry has long migrated to remote implemented torture with horrors too ghastly to effectively capture in words. My blood has light-emitting devices when viewed under a microscope (http://peacepink.ning.com/profiles/blogs/nanodevices-in-sensory-overload-mind-control-torture ).
Untold numbers of innocent Americans who are currently being severely tortured with advanced electromagnetic and scalar weapons systems have contacted various members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, among many govt officials, in desperate cries for intervention to stop the 24/7 pain but to no avail. The programs are classified, effectively tying the ‘oversight committee’s hands. Some of these victims have since died. Some congressional staffers obviously know about this. Could it be that someone wanted to know how much of THIS new torture did the staffers know about?
“Scalar weapons systems?” Wow, I don’t know what that means but it sure sounds scary! I mean, I always knew Doppler Radar was being used to track my movements, because I could feel the pinging in my silver amalgam fillings. And there’s little doubt they had the dentist implant an RFID chip when he installed my last set of crowns; I mean, the opportunity would be too good to miss, right? Since the crowns were made offsite and shipped to the dentist, he may not even have known he was doing it! But now I know what those chips are for: remote mind control and torture via scalar weapons systems!
Pat~~~ Thank you for your post. I mean, thank you from the bottom of my heart, pal.
(Aside, thanks to The Intercept for providing a -credible- venue for articles and replies both)
Pat, I was a target of the torture you speak of for 3 years (that I know of). 2007 was the worst. Best I can tell, it mostly ended in 2009…but that’s the thing, you really never know for -sure- when/if it has ended. What you and I both know though, is that once you are a target, the harassment can be resumed on very short notice to those who perpetrate the operation.
I won’t bore you with what you already know, Pat—that sometimes it is for mere testing on American citizens, other times it is “for hire”….a rogue group of multi-agency personnel…to create the demise of an American citizen….sometimes for business profit, sometimes because of a person’s activism, sometimes contracted by a wealthy man to , during divorce and custody court hearings, to make his wife look “nuts”….if she survives that long. As you sagely pointed out, many take their own lives.
Pat~~~thanks, pal. As we both know, some venues which discuss this stuff are understandably discredited because many -truly- mentally ill people dominate the boards, and of course, all the trolls who intentionally discredit the subject matter on whole. Nice post, Pat…well done.
Pat~~~If you are comfortable doing so, please contact me at [email protected] If it makes you feel more comfortable, create a new email acct for this purpose and once I receive yours, I shall do the same
Do you know of Dr Terry Robertson? I have spoken via phone with him on a couple of occaisions. A selfless and dedicated advocate to us all.,
I will understand if you do not contact me…I totally “get” those reasons for those who have traveled our path. For what its worth though, I’m one of the good guys.
(((( YOU ))))
You guys are good. So, how’s the weather in Fort Meade?
There was something on the news recently where a Senator was questioning an executive from a Swiss bank about secret accounts held by “Americans” (my quotes). The Senator started by coming on pretty strong, but then suddenly waffled. I was thinking “black ops, he suddenly realized or saw something that scared him”.
Here’s the scenario I imagine; Rich people squirrel money away in offshore accounts, then transfer some money to secret government accounts. They can pretend that they’ve paid taxes, and the government gets to fund secret operations.
The problem with this scenario is that we don’t know if these secret operations are in the best interests of the nation. How much influence would the rich have over these operations? Would anyone else find this prospect as worrisome as I do?
Just something to think about.
Most of the CIA’s black ops are funded by drug money.
They’ve been doing it since the Korean war at least.
http://home.earthlink.net/~anitaastrologer/drughist.htm
The recent New York Times article on this topic sounded like there is no big problem at all, and that nothing really bad is going on. That article makes it seem as if two US Government entities are having a spat. On the contrary, this is explosive. One hopes President Obama gets involved and makes some heads roll at the CIA.
You really think a president that personally signs off on drone murder lists is going to HELP the supposed oversight do their job?
Julian Assange tells SXSW audience: ‘NSA has grown to be a rogue agency’
theguardian.com 8/3/14
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/08/julian-assange-wikileaks-nsa-sxsw
The CIA has blocked release of the Senate’s torture report for years. In addition, it has taken many other actions to try to keep the lid on the torture program.
For example, the CIA videotaped the interrogation of 9/11 suspects, but falsely told the 9/11 Commission that there were no videotapes or other records of the interrogations, and then illegally destroyed all of the tapes and transcripts of the interrogations.
9/11 Commission co-chairs Thomas Keane and Lee Hamilton wrote:
“Those who knew about those videotapes — and did not tell us about them — obstructed our investigation.”
Government officials decided not to inform a lawfully constituted body, created by Congress and the president, to investigate one the greatest tragedies to confront this country. We call that obstruction.
(And the chairs of both the 9/11 Commission and the Official Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 said that Soviet-style government “minders” obstructed the investigation into 9/11 by intimidating witnesses. We believe that some of the minders were from the CIA.)
**FULL ARTICLE**: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/cia-spies-senate-intelligence-committee-attempt-make-sure-senate-report-finding-cias-torture-program-illegal-counter-productive-stays-secret.html
For those that missed this from last October, here is The Committee To Protect Journalists special report on The Obama Administration, and the press
http://cpj.org/reports/2013/10/obama-and-the-press-us-leaks-surveillance-post-911.php
Ha! How do you feel about the NSA now, Madam Senator Di-Spy, now that Clapper’s taking upskirt photos at your meetings? Huh? All in the interests of National Security, right? HaHAHA!!!!
Don’t be so harsh, and have more faith ! What on earth could possibly be wrong with organizing a tax payer funded mass voyeuristic, study of public genitalia on Yahoo. You have absolutely no idea what is sometimes found up those skirts at airports ! Weapons of mass destruction were finally discovered too !
More videos please, that we can post on facebook?
They didn’t mind when it was US they were exposed at being spied on ~ now it’s THEM, maybe they will do something about it ~ I call this phenomena ‘Proximity Empathy’, ie: if it affects me the problem must be addressed…….
James Clapper…. Do you believe he is the director?
The real question should be, who is the boss of American and is that person even American or merely just very, very wealthy?
WE HAVE; ONCE AGAIN, TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION IN THE U.S.A…….OUR LEADERS ONLY WANT TO GET REELECTED TO ENJOY THEIR “INSTANT” PENSIONS AND A CONSULTING JOB AFTER LEAVING GOVERNMENT
As embarrassing as it is to admit it, I’ve voted for Feinstein every time she’s run; now I have to accept the fact that she has helped lead us to the brink of a constitutional crisis.
If she continues to side with these covert insurrectionists operating under cover of the Executive branch, other members of Congress must replace her.
Article 1, Section 8:
“The Congress shall have Power To… provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;”
If they don’t, then we will know that we’ve suffered a coup d’état and that the machinations in Washington are now merely a corrupt charade.
The most principled Americans will have no choice but to stop paying our taxes, and take back our government, by the sheer force of our numbers.
Thank you for apologizing for voting for Feinstein.
She’s been blackmailed like many others in Congress, like Obama and probably some on the Supreme Court. There is no governmental mechanism left to stop them, you must accept that the USA is now a criminal state, run by and for usurpers, and there’s nothing the people can do about it.
Blackmailed?She’s a card carrying (ha)Zionist.Everything about our descent into this black hole of disaster is about Zionism.Supernationalism there,and no nationalism here,just internationalism.
I like the 5to1 , 1in5 idea, but the American populace as a whole is too lazy rise up as a group to accomplish anything like revolution. Much less vote in sensible, non-partisan, non-corrupt federal officials.
Good luck with that. You and your fellow “Americans” have been replaced by foreign consumers. This is much like how the robber barons used mass immigration of the 1880s to dismantle our farmer democracy and replace it with a corporate aristocracy. Now the corporate aristocracy has evolved itself into the corporate fascist state in exactly the same manner as their corporate grandfathers, the robber barons, did.
Obedience and providing cheap labor are the new basis of “citizenship,” and the percent of folks who have become “citizens” by cheating our rule of law and putting their own personal interests above that of our country and its legitimate citizens is now quite significant. Their main concern is how to get rich and get all the rest of their family into the country. That’s it…
The interests of the government and the crimigrants are aligned. Good Luck!
Enjoy your slave wages…
In conjunction with this excellent article and breaking news, some idiot Lt.General has gone on the news, spewing forth misinformation claiming that Edward Snowden may have stolen war plans from the US gov’t. Now how in perdition could he have completely penetrated the DoD or Pentagon to have done that?
Apparently, no longer is Mr. Snowden being trivialized, now he is ultra-spy, and will be responsible for the Ukraine incident?
Congress is just a tool for the corporate elite. They’ve been bought and paid for. I’m afraid it’s going to take another revolution to set things right. Oh well… nothing lasts forever.
Thanks for The Intercept.
It’s simple, really. To kill corruption, you have to kill money. The CIA needs to be done away with. And then the government needs a federal campaign finance law that makes the “Whores United” decision moot. Good luck with that.
We as a public also need to reassess what it means to keep secrets. A good husband has few secrets. Similarly, if a nation’s apparatus cannot inform its government about anything, they’re up to no good. I want my nation to be good. I feel like our nation is utterly corrupt.
The big money that keeps it this way relies on its understanding that Occupy, for instance, is a peaceful effort at change. Corruption doesn’t understand peaceful means. Even Nelson Mandela learned to make a bomb. While M.L. King was preaching peace, I feel the overt threat of Malcolm X and others made it sensible for the establishment to WANT change.
Occupy was a good way to show what was wrong. People get it. And Occupy provoked the rich. Occupy was a modern Selma to Montgomery march. But I get the feeling that the people also need a plausible threat. Something needs to be done to get the Big Money to back the fuck up off our democracy. Something has to be done to give it pause.
The politicians have been bought. The laws they make serve the rich. Wash and repeat. The American Experiment is close to collapse if that horse is not already out of the barn. The real problem is that America is also, in many ways, destroying the entire habitable world.
You can try to get money out of politics. You can try to get a climate agreement. You can try to express your point through protest. These are good and right things that ought to be done. But you are NEVER approaching the money.
Until someone kidnaps Jaime Dimon or a Koch Brother, your protest signs only get you half way. Until people like that get the real message that there are consequences for their villainy, nothing is going to change. Maybe we could get some rogue CIA guys to disappear them. After all, they’re getting so good at it.
When a guy like Snowden has to flee to Russia in order to speak freely… When Mr. Greenwald has to live abroad and wonder if he’s going to be arrested on his native soil… The game, friends, is up.
America (trademark) is nothing but a cruel joke.
anyone else think the only hope you guys in the states have to get the intelligence service under control is to completely disband the problem agenceys and replace them with personnel who.. you know, don’t refuse to communicate with their own government? cause form Australasia here, we keep seeing on the net and the news story after story about either the CIA or NSA acting increasingly like rouge agency’s, or at least one that considers its own government the enemy.. guh. you gut what im asking, right? not too coherent at this time of night.
don’t forget GCHQ in your assessment
It looks decidedly unlikely that either the surveillance-industrial complex or the military-industrial complex will ever be reigned in. In fact, we are spiraling into a very dangerous state of fascism. Efforts to oversee and reign in their activities end in laughable exchanges, obfuscation, lies, destruction of incriminating evidence, and now spying. (see TomDispatch.com — The Pentagon’s Phony Budget War http://is.gd/NVMy8T). Spy agencies and the military that should be answerable to the People act with total impunity and get away with it. The People, via its elected officials in Congress (or Parliament or whatever), clearly do not have the power to demand obedience. Democracy is not the ability to grant power but the ability to take it away. We have lost that power. One wonders if a coup has occurred and we are just beginning to realize it.
So, what shall we do about this folks? If at this point you can’t see that our government is completely corrupt – left or right – well, you have your head in the sand. Small, limited govt with a limited scope of responsibility and massive oversight is the only solution.
16 intelligence agencies, 93 federal law enforcement agencies – where do you folks want to start? Ooops – I forgot, you’re all Progressives or Socialists so you don’t actually want to roll govt back a bit. So, when you are thinking about who to blame, make sure you all look in the mirror. After all, worshiping the authority of the state is your specialty, yes?
Sorry, just need to respond, the CIA building is the George H. W. Bush building. Also, it is mostly Conservatives who worship at the knees of the CIA, NSA and NRO and the service specific agencies as well as the FBI and the any other “Intelligence” agency out there. Like all things, Progressives do want to roll back parts of the government. But you don’t look in the mirror much so you don’t realize that. I am a Progressive and I work in the Defense Industry and I am all for getting these “Intelligence” agencies back under control. These current programs had their genesis under the George W. Bush Presidency and they pushed for this under a number of bills. Conservatives pounded any reasonable opposition (mostly coming from Progressives0 with cries of 9/11, 9/11, terrorism and terrorists, ad nauseum and you think you are insightful pushing this all on Progressives. You need to look on the other side of the mirror because you have constructed a fantasy world.
I do not see the Intercept, or the voice of people in this comments section as being” insightful” as what is being advocated by myself and others here, is to follow the existing lawful, and peaceful democratic process. It is lawful to reform news channels, lawful to form new political parties, and lawful to elect a new Government when election day comes .It is lawful to protest peacefully, and it is lawful to exercise ones freedom of speech to make others more aware of important issues. None of these activities have anything to do with terrorism, or fantasists.
This vision, and dream is about bringing higher standards, greater transparency, honesty, integrity, and accountability, across all departments in all Governments. It goes beyond just the US or UK Governments, as in many countries there are even worse Governments. This is also about bringing much needed reform to journalism, and getting Governments across the World to listen to their people .Why not encourage our existing Governments to hold more public debates, and to provide democratic voting opportunities for legislation and policy adoption ?Why not give people more choice, with some new fresh political parties? If enough people look into their mirrors, and speak with one clear voice then that fantasy and dream can soon become reality.
Mister:
I hear you. I do. It would be ideal to use the system to lawfully and peacefully bend it to the will of the people.
The problem I see is that I am not sure our democracy really works anymore. I think capitalism is now impeding democracy. The natural station for this train to arrive at is ever decreasing freedom and a government that only works by bribery.
If I am correct about the nature of our democracy and America (TM), then the means to power (elections) cannot be effective when corporate interests control the elections.
All that would be left is for the population to find creative ways to confront that big money or corrupt influence up to and including the threat of violence. The idea is not that far out and – certainly – I don’t condone violence. If the idea was unthinkable, why would our political parties hold their conventions behind barricades and barbed wire?
Look. Violence erupts when a population has no other recourse. So it is in the status quo’s interest to at least make it look like elections actually make a difference.
I guess less corporate republicans would be a good start. So maybe there is this thin ray of hope that the Big Money has been given enough rope to hang itself. But I’m not sure enough republican voters are smart enough to turn off Fox Propaganda Network.
Yeah,all the finger pointing at Putin,as a member of the KGB,is belied by Bush the idiots CIA leadership,the most destructive anti-American agency in American history.Can one point to just one thing the CIA has ever done for US?The people,I mean,not big business and Israel.
You’re reaching with this one. Being free from surveillance is not a left-v-right thing nor a big-government-v-small-government thing. It’s a liberty thing, a rule-of-law thing, and a fundamental-rights thing.
100% correct. It has nothing to do with whether a person is a democrat, or a Republican, nothing to do with whether your a Conservative or Labour supporter. Its about civil liberties, transparency, accountability, and Human Rights across the World. People everywhere have a fundamental right to privacy if they are normal law abiding citizens. They have a right to hear the truth, from those they have elected to govern them.
As opposed to regulating massive corporate bucks that lobby against everyone’s interests except the 0.01% of the country? You got a problem that 70% of our intelligence is farmed out to secretive private contractors? I do, very much. You dumb fucks wanna farm out everything in this country to ‘private interests’.
The Government keeps people like you away from folks like me, for a reason. Keep supporting socialism for the upper ranks. Keep hoping for them lost ideals.
No one here wants this massive intrusion of their civil rights, yet you spout ridiculous charges it’s a liberal conspiracy. Yer outcher gourd.
Go back to Redstate and rehearse better.
So, what shall we do about this folks?
An excellent question and one which is representative of the bottom line. This is the point at which this entire publication is directed and one which is worthy of deep contemplation.
First, let’s redefine the scope of the essential problem to a universal level and then seek to formulate the possible solutions. For that, the following article/link is a primary pointer:
http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/03/06/ukraine-the-end-game/
This is not merely about the politics in one country or one national allegiance….no….it is rather, about control of the Planet. When humanity can pull their collective head out of their asses so to speak, and recognize that fact; then, and only then, can we begin to formulate solutions.
The more credible the sources of information are, the more plausible the possibility of reaching more of humanity. This publication has many credible information sources. Many positive actions at an international level have already been undertaken as a result of the Snowden/Greenwald endeavors. It is appropriate to acknowledge that fact.
Taking any definitive “side” within the context of the control game totality is actually a mute point at this junction on Earth. There are only three sides in the war for control of Planet Earth at this time….light, dark or integrated; or stated alternatively, positive, negative, or integrated. I have chosen my side and am opting for integration as a possible solution.
Interesting question Glenn, and I believe that the first step necessary is to reform the news channels by establishing more independent and fearless style journalism. This would help to make its harder for the truth to be hidden, or covered up, and this would help our existing Governments and their corporate sponsors to become more transparent, and more accountable, If our existing Governments cannot rely on the control and manipulation of the news channels, and cannot pump out so much propaganda, then this is a start towards less corrupt Governance, and improvements in democracy. Once this has been achieved, new political parties need to be formed to offer the electorate real choice. These newly formed parties, must have credible, and strong leadership with popular reformist policies which will change the structure of Government, with less influence, and dependence on corporate lobbying. My view is that it is important to bring about change through peaceful, and democratic means. Whilst I believe that we do need to get rid of the existing US and UK Governments the best way is to do this is by voting them out. The real problem in our so called democracies is that people currently lack a real alternative to be able to vote for. In the UK and USA there is not really a lot of difference between the two electable parties in each country, and what influences all of the four parties policies is the same – major corporates, and the powerful elite. None of these existing parties really care what the people think, and they all fail to offer people democratic voting on policy and law formation after being elected. To me democracy must extend beyond the day of election, and if a new party promised that then this would help gain it popularity. Other popular policies would be to roll back the NSA, and GCHQ, and the intelligence agencies, and to reform the structure of Government. Its good of you to ask the question, but I don’t agree with you when you state that everyone here is a “progressive socialist.” however we do need to see future Governments that will listen more to the concerns of their electorates, and who will examine the divergence between social and economic costs of their policies. The existing Governments could also start doing this at any stage, but maybe change needs to be encouraged through them seeing that a new party threatens their future. I personally have little faith that our existing Governments will change whilst they still control the news, and whilst the people lack a strong electable alternative. What do you think then Glenn, and what would be your suggestion? The alternative otherwise is to escape America, and the USA, and live elsewhere, like a mass exodus. Or to just sit back, moaning on, and doing nothing. When protesting peacefully is not being listened to, then you have to form alternative political parties. No other choices really, if you want to respect the existing democratic processes used to elect new Governments.
There is another alternative within the United States and that is to fight back within the confines of the existing Constitution itself. See:
http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/?doing_wp_cron=1394215770.2270379066467285156250
When the individual states nullify Federal Laws it upsets the Federal applecart so to speak and sheds serious aspersions upon the conduct of all three branches of government.
Currently, only two parties are represented in all three branches of the US Government. Elections are inherently rigged meaning that it doesn’t matter who the people vote for. Both parties represent the International Banking Cartel and their masters.
Yes within the USA people can campaign to nullify laws which have damaged peoples constitutional rights. Maybe you will be able to remove some of the more recent affronts on constitutional rights, and freedoms which have been occurring since the Bush era. However, I suspect that even if you are able to nullify Federal laws which are unjust, though a democratic and lawful existing process in certain States this will take a very long time to achieve. In the UK this is not an option.
That’s extremely difficult to do. Those types of media reforms require representatives who understand the evils of corporate media conglomerates, like a lot of ordinary people do. But once you have those types of representatives in power — assuming they can even be elected — the corporate media suddenly remembers they are supposed to be adversarial. The media is powerful, and can easily malign and even destabilize a government, nationally and internationally. (This is roughly the process in countries like Argentina, Ecuador, Venezuela.)
Yes it is difficult to achieve I agree, but it can be achieved, and it must be achieved, and its by no means impossible. All it takes is a few wealth and influential people to turn, and to create independent news, and television channels, and the game has changed. These sponsors can arise because through many different personal motivations, but sometimes they simply may not be happy with existing Governments that have caused damage to their businesses through spying activities.There are also many thousands of journalists amongst us all who are perhaps unhappy, and frustrated with their editorial/owner’s censorship, and controls constantly being applied as hurdles to publishing what they really would like to be saying. These journalists can write in alternative independent news channels under different names with more freedom, and without fear of reprisals
Ido also agree that once a new political party has been voted in by the electorate, they would face a backlash from the old style, corporate media, but if the new Government is honest, transparent and accountable, then they will have little mud to rake. The voice of the new model of independent journalists will also drown out the voice of the corporate media. The media is powerful and it can also assist in reforming Governments and bringing about higher standards of Governance, and true democracy. The Intercept is just the beginning of the reform process, and I hope that many more will follow the new and popular independent model.
Hi Glenn, I think that is a great question. I am a socialist, and I think that the solution is that all the heads of these agencies should be directly elected nationally. It would put an end to all the secretive collusion with the executive and open these programs to the light of day. I actually feel this way about all the Cabinet members. This could be an amazing reform, and somewhere where the Left and Right could really come together. I wish people were talking about it!
One way to start is to stop alienating those who are not your political ditto head. Progressives as you might argue conservatives do think for themselves. That is an offensive statement as if to say extreme right wing is more patriotic than extreme left. We don’t have to look back more than a half century to prove that statement false. Done with your stupid remark. Now , there are many laws on the books that are getting people arrested for thought crimes. Let’s start with sting operations that net people who would not have been there if it were not for ” law enforcement” trained to entice ordinary citizens. So not only do we have to keep exposing national lawlessness by public officials but local as well. Keep focus and we might be able to change this eventually . The last administration got us off to a great start ignoring rule of law and this one just picked up where the old left off. That’s why we should have dealt swiftly and immediately with the lawlessness of torture during the ill conceived and ill fated Iraq war. But everyone gave Bush a pass because he was the kind of guy people wanted to have a beer with . Right. Save your beer money. Count me out.
Rep. Amash, I really don’t understand your problem. Last year, the CIA presumably submitted an invoice of $53 billion for ‘undisclosed activities’. You should send back the invoice unpaid, with a request to itemize the expenses under ‘Cyborgs’, ‘Talking Bears’ , ‘Moon Bases’ and ‘Other’. Also, request they submit copies of the receipts, so their expenses can be audited.
Since you presumably pay out money without requesting any backup documentation, where can I submit my invoice for this advice? I had an indeterminate number of people working on this problem for an indefinite period of time, which surely deserves to be compensated.
The intelligence community does not need your money. They are self funded from the opium coming out of Afghanistan.
So clearly the means to pay this poor penniless ‘Tater and his indeterminate amount of associates exist. And the government are fine with paying while getting no insight in actual expenses as long as THEY’re doing it…
I love it! Finally these individuals who are so covert they do not even know where to draw the line re out in the open, not by choice but by a somewhat crazy natural progress. I spy on you, No! I spy on you.
We’re all lovin it !
That would probably be the NSA’s motto, but unfortunately the golden arches got it first.
Congress needs to push through funding cuts to these rogue agencies and their private contractors. This seems to be the only way forward now. Take the bananas away from the monkeys of the banana republic so the monkeys get starved out.
The absolute absurdity does hit you after awhile. I keep thinking of how they obviously have the contents of lots of peoples phone calls. These guys have programs where they order stuff from the telecoms or those centers such as White Plains but then you think what about these potable cell phone towers that are like the drone targeting ones but loaned to Police departments with non-disclosure agreements and so they are not telling the judge or defense or anything. Like the one in Florida. Do they have them in the state capitals or other convenient places to capture “peoples'” call while pretending to go after all the “bad” guys just grabbing stuff up? Not even a general warrant but no warrant. Good for getting cash and cars and asymmetrical knowledge and advantage I would wager if I was a betting sort. I keep thinking oh my by now even they would admit it might be time for an epiphany.
Could you please add a print mode for your stories.
Thank you.
Time for an update? Perhaps someone has already noted that:
So, there you have it. the CIA has asked the DOJ to investigate the staffers of the Select Senate Intelligence Committee. The watchers are being investigated by those they are warranted to watch. Is this a great country, or what?
The CIA and DOJ are in the Executive Branch. Congress is in the Legislative Branch. So, it makes sense for the CIA,, who is in bed with the DOJ, to ask its buddy, the DOJ, to investigate those thieving legislative staffers. And, the DOJ will, of necessity, threaten to throw the book at those thieving staffers unless it extracts something valuable from their Congressional bosses. This practice when done by non-governmental employees is called extortion.
When, the CIA/DOJ puts those upstart Congressional people representatives in their places, the final battle for a free country is over and the USA and its Constitution is no more. The overseers are now the peasants owing allegiance to their King, CIA/DOJ, with the President as figurehead.
I wonder how the Congress and “we the people” would do in front of the Federal Courts, including the Supreme Court, with the DOJ as our adversary. The DOJ has tons of money and tons of lawyers and tons of connections. I wonder what the outcome would be.
PS: You may remember that the CIA initially asked the Inspector General (IG) to investigate. The IG reports to the Director of the CIA. Fox investigating another fox re the mayhem in the chicken coop.
There is one action that Congress can take and they need to do it straight away. Cut the funding to the CIA and its buddy agencies, the NSA, FBI, … Pass the legislation with a 2/3 majority so President Obama can’t veto it.
We are one small step away from a Constitutional crisis. Congress needs to act Now or they, and we, are doomed. I hope at least one leader in Congress has figured this fact out and rallies his buddies to defund these rogue agencies Now.
You make this sound much more sinister than it is. The Director is required BY LAW to refer this to the DOJ.
50 u.s.c. §403q, section b(5).
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/USCODE-1994-title50/USCODE-1994-title50-chap15-subchapI-sec403q/content-detail.html
No, it IS sinister. They already KNOW it is REQUIRED BY LAW, so they have SUBVERTED the DOJ. Use them for COVER.
@Nate. The DOJ enforces the law and administers justice, so they are the ones to investigate the unlawful monitoring of the Congressional staff’s computers and compartmentalized storage device(s). For all the details on who did what to whom (first), take a look at Marcy Wheeler’s analysis articles over at her Emptywheel site. Very enlightening.
My conclusion on who violated the “don’t touch my stuff” agreement, re the Congressional staff having to do their work in Virginia at the CIA site rather than in their own secure rooms in Washington, is the CIA. It appears the CIA violated the “don’t touch my stuff” agreement because they really really wanted to know what the staffers were putting in the Torture report as soon as they entered it. Sometime late last year, the staffers found a CIA torture summary report written for former CIA director Panetta that contradicted the current CIA report. The Panetta report supported the conclusions of the Congressional Torture report. I understand they printed this report and showed it to their bosses. The CIA is now crying foul about this report ending up in Congress and claiming that their Congressional overseers are not allowed to see it. The staffers figured out from the CIA ranting that the CIA had been monitoring the staff realtime – the CIA was caught spying on their overseers even after they signed an agreement not to.
Re my stating that the CIA and DOJ are in bed with one another, take a look at all the newsworthy DOJ prosecutions in recent years that involve the CIA. Tell me if you reach a different conclusion than mine.
I’ll be following this investigation to see the outcome. Previous investigations of unlawful CIA actions such as their destroying the torture tapes died a slow death and there were no consequences. That outcome is usually the case even when the CIA is caught doing non-authorized actions like assassinations, torturing, and similar war crimes.
congress
It is unfortunate that people who investigate the CIA seem to have terribly bad luck with getting themselves into legal trouble.
Now you’re posing threats. Duly noted.
@Common ‘Tater. Your use of the word “investigate” is to narrow. People also get in trouble for disagreeing with, embarrassing, exposing, and faulting the CIA.
I really don’t see anything wrong here. Most legislators require oversight, and it is only their inflated ego that makes those same legislators think otherwise. These legislators have forsaken the People and the Constitution and have made themselves powerless. So why are they complaining now? If you create a Frankenstein then you better learn to deal with it yourself.
Please point us in the direction of this “required oversight” of our representatives investigating wrongdoing, by the accused.
Thank you.
Pfft.
> Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse: “We were stuck, because if you’re a member of Congress you are not a declassifier and even if something is out there, unless it has been formally declassified, you can be arrested for commenting on or echoing things, even if they’re out in the public domain, because now you’re confirming it to be true,” he said.
I suppose, If Sen. Whitehouse and President Obama have any legitimate concerns about any National Intelligence policy or authority abuses, they should report them to the same appropriate chain of command authorities they demanded/demand Snowden report to. .. or contact Rep. Mike Rogers, lead leak investigator
Perfect! Should be on a huge billboard planted where it can easily be seen from the Capitol and the Supreme Court, and where the Emperor can’t miss it when he strolls down Pennsylvania Avenue to visit those revered places of high ethics.
Oh, phlueeze! What naive codswollop.
We live in a police state, for God’s sake. Get over it and “Watch what you say; watch what you do” – you’re all potential terrorists. And, thanks to domestic surveillance, ‘we’ can prove it!
But of course.
Every person on the planet is a potential terrorist. And the USA is already allowing the CIA to disappear anyone off the street as long as they have even tangential proof of any planned or assumed wrongdoing, which with their dragnet probably includes telling someone on the phone that “We should meet at *that* place to discuss *that* thing.” Even if that means having coffee at a local stabucks while talking about the superbowl.
It’s paranoia used for its own sake. And they have already one upped the KGB, at least the people were living in fear of them, there are actually people that think what the rogue agencies of the US is doing is for the good of the people!
I wrote in ( http://peacepink.ning.com/profiles/blogs/a-tribute-to-nelson-mandela, ) :
“Today, world leaders descend upon beautiful South Africa to pay tribute to a giant. Among them, in an sad paradox, political leaders of free democracies who knowingly leave behind in their countries, thousands of their fellow citizens who continue to endure chronic horrific tortures with advanced electromagnetic weapons systems while they turn a deaf ear (to their pleas for help and intervention), in an act of the most superlative denial of freedoms imaginable, and in what amounts to an ironic and most complete insult to the very ideals that Mandela genuinely cherished. ”
So when I heard that our President said Russia violated International Law (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/us-ukraine-crisis-obama-idUSBREA221XF20140304 ), I, once more, had difficulty reconciling that statement with our own invasions of Iraq (twice), and the subsequent tortures and humiliations of citizens of that country re: Abu Ghraib during the occupation. For decades, I believed that the US stood for good. But history keeps presenting me with harsh realities and events that are hard to reconcile and serioulsy challenge this view . What was the cold war really all about? Was it a war between “good and evil” as we were so often reminded? Or was it secretely, really a FIGHT FOR THE MONOPOLY of the entire playing field, good AND evil? The answers do not come easy.
What I know for certain is that true world domination by any nation, requires ALL subjects to submit completely to its will. It is NEVER going to happen with Russia and China. Nor would the United States of America ever submit to anyone. That means that neither of these countries can be summoned by any nation, around some round table in France, or some other exotic place, to be dictated to. Russia is not Gaza. And Putin is not Abbas. Deep down, I have to believe that John Kerry knew he would fail in his mission, primarily because of America’s own precedence in the same conduct, not with one, but many nations, and thus, ill-fitted in Russian eyes, to issue ultimata and declaratives.
For writing this here today, I shall once more, be severely tortured as I have been every day since my last post on this website, where nanoparticles are remotely vibrated in sensory patterns that simulate crawling and gnawing insects and worms all over the scalp, including all over the face, armpits, neck, etc, while billions of the same devices are forcibly driven down the respiratory and alimentary tracts for uptake into the lungs and ultimate systemic distribution. Remote delivered microwave heat broil my head at regular intervals while an interrogation-style voice, with undescernible words but with a definite human speech pattern, bitches rubbish all night long while I writhe in pain. The torture planes diligently surveill above with super bright twin engines at night as they perform their sordid work of torturing an innocent 50+ yr old African woman with no criminal history and who is , even as the Special Senate Committee on Intelligence duels with the Agency over some of its activities.
Everything was going along fine, and then:
“For writing this here today, I shall once more, be severely tortured as I have been every day since my last post on this website, where nanoparticles are remotely vibrated in sensory patterns that simulate crawling and gnawing insects and worms all over the scalp, including all over the face, armpits, neck, etc, while billions of the same devices are forcibly driven down the respiratory and alimentary tracts for uptake into the lungs and ultimate systemic distribution. Remote delivered microwave heat broil my head at regular intervals while an interrogation-style voice, with undescernible words but with a definite human speech pattern, bitches rubbish all night long while I writhe in pain. The torture planes diligently surveill above with super bright twin engines at night as they perform their sordid work of torturing an innocent 50+ yr old African woman with no criminal history and who is , even as the Special Senate Committee on Intelligence duels with the Agency over some of its activities.”
Man, I hate when that happens!
Test comment?
Where is the accountability? These senators and the agencies they protecting are equally guilty of committing crimes against the American people. They have each failed us miserably. Not one single senator from any party entered any evidence into the record regarding the CIA – let alone NSA – illegal surveillance and monitoring- even with full immunity from prosecution in the Constitution’s Speech or Debate Clause. Every single one of them is guilty of putting their personal ambitions, finances and comfort ahead of the public’s right to know.
It’s a sad, sad day when they can’t even aspire to follow the example set by freshman senator Mike Gravel back in 1971. “Gravel agreed where previously others had not…declaring, “It is my constitutional obligation to protect the security of the people by fostering the free flow of information absolutely essential to their democratic decision-making.” The night he stood on the Senate floor “…He read until 1 a.m., until with tears and sobs he said that he could no longer physically continue…Gravel ended the session by, with no other senators present, establishing unanimous consent to insert 4,100 pages of the Papers into the Congressional Record of his subcommittee”. That’s the day the Pentagon Papers, written by whistleblower Daniel Ellsburg, were entered into the public record in the Senate. No senator has repeated this action since 1971. Not one. They dishonor both Gravel and Ellsburg.
Especially rich, and nauseating? They bicker back and forth on defense budgets, war votes and protecting or cutting Veteran’s benefits. They are a disgrace to the flag behind their podium and the one they wave at parades and marches and rallies. These aren’t tools to pull out of some shed to build the campaign trail. People fight, die and keep volunteering to fight for that flag and the Constitution. Some of the very same people voted for them. They won. They took the same oath to defend and protect the Constitution. Most people keep that promise. They abandoned it. They dishonor the service and every sacrifice made for them for the paycheck, privilege, power and authority that their office affords them. They dishonor the office they hold. They dishonor the American people. They dishonor whistleblowers like Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning. And they most certainly dishonor the citizen soldiers like Todd Beamer who said, “Are you guys ready? Okay. Let’s roll.” Yet not one of them will fall on their sword. Not a one. Not a pair. Not a team. Not a committee. Not a quorum. {crickets}
Failing. I guess that’s just how THEY roll….
Slow. Clap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gravel
I told you so.
Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day.
…to Edwin L James of the New York Times (1928)
We’re not a “democracy”, in theory.
We are supposed to be a constitutional Republic,” in theory.”
Thought you might like to be a tad less “information deficient.”
And theory is important …. at least in theory.
I should have added that a constitutional republic in practice is also a fallacy. Constitutional clauses may be interpreted any way which happens to be convenient. So I wasn’t wrong, just exercising my prerogative of not telling the whole truth.
Yeah, mommy…that democracy stuff is TOO HAWD! Don’t WANNA play, an’ you can’t MAKE ME! I’ll phone CHILDRENS’ AID!
Perhaps Senator Whitehouse is actually afraid of getting bumped by a stranger and feeling a prick, getting sick and dying a slow death as one agent suggested he would like to visit on Snowden.
Time for big cuts in their funding ! ! Teach them a lesson they won’t forget ! Only the congress can do this.
Excellent idea. Minor changes in hiring & promotion to go along: make all of them take & pass psych evals, cut out the personality disorders & addicts —- It’s a workable plan…minus budget & minus all the perpetual troublemakers….. the USA citizens will be far safer w/ this insane asylum reduced if not removed.
Interesting to get a bit of perspective by looking at this 1977 non-disclosure agreement between the
House Select Committee on Assassinations and the CIA…
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAappend.html#ExhibitA
From Chapter 17 of The Taking of America 1-2-3 by Richard Sprague
(Chapter 9 on the Control of the Media 1967 to 1976 is also excellent)
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp17.html
The Nondisclosure Agreement
This CIA weapon has several parts. First, it binds the signer, if a consultant, to never reveal that he is working for the committee (see paragraph 13). Second, it prevents the signer from ever revealing to anyone in perpetuity, any information he has learned about the committee’s work as a result of working for the committee (see paragraphs 2 and 12). Third, it gives the committee and the House, after the committee terminates, the power to take legal action against the signer, in a court named by the committee or the House, in case the committee believes the signer has violated the agreement. Fourth, the signer agrees to pay the court costs for such a suit in the event he loses the suit (see paragraphs 14 and 15).
These four parts are enough to scare most researchers or staff members who signed it into silence forever about what they learned. The agreement is insidious in that the signer is, in effect, giving away his constitutional rights. Some lawyers who have seen the agreement, including Richard A. Sprague, have expressed the opinion it is an illegal agreement in violation of the Constitution and several Constitutional amendments. Whether it is illegal or not, most staff members and all consultants who signed it have remained silent, even after three and a half years beyond the life of the committee. There are only two exceptions, the author and Gaeton Fonzi, who published a lengthy article about the HSCA cover-up in the Washingtonian magazine in 1981.
The most insidious parts of the agreement, however, are paragraphs 2, 3 and 7, which give the CIA very effective control over what the committee could and could not do with so-called “classified” information. The director of the CIA is given authority to determine, in effect, what information shall remain classified and therefore unavailable to nearly everyone. The signer of the agreement, and remember, this includes all of the Congressman and women who were members of the committee, agrees not to reveal or discuss any information that the CIA decides he should not. The chairman of the committee supposedly has the final say on what information is included, but in practice, even an intelligent and gutsy chairman would not be likely to override the CIA. Lewis Stokes did not attempt any final decisions. In fact, the CIA did not have to do very much under these clauses. The fact that Blakey was their man and kept nearly all of the CIA sensitive information, evidence, and witnesses away from the committee members was all that was necessary. Stokes never knew what he should have argued about with the CIA director. It is this document which proves beyond doubt that the CIA controlled the HSCA.
“P.S. In the case of key witness Richard Case Nagell,
Mr. Stokes assured me this spring that the committee
would contact him. As of this date, he has never
been contacted. He knows who killed President Kennedy.”
fuck.
A quote from the film, “Wag The Dog”:
“Who killed Kennedy? I read the first draft of the Warren report. It said he was killed by a drunk driver. “
Am curious as to the thinking of the members of Congress — the vast majority, apparently — who DON’T have a problem with what the Executive branch is doing. And is their acquiescence a reflection of their constituents’ thinking?
They may not have a talking bear, but they sure as hell seem to have a lot of barefaced liars.
What did anyone in government think would happen when the NSA (Nosy Spying Assholes) started monitoring us heavily? Of course it comes back to bite all those, like Feinstein and Rogers, who have staunchly defended the wholesale spying. Hey, politicians, the NSA knows how clean your undergarments are and what lunch food is stuck in your molars. That’s how far up your asses they are. What gets me is that the “powers-that-be” know all our secrets, and that’s OK, but we can be arrested for exposing theirs–secrets which have everything to do with us. Now that’s some hypocritical totalitarian bullshit right there. Thanks for all you do at The Intercept, by the way. Much appreciated.
Unbefukinlievable.
Never forget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
I’ll quote one of their goals from their own documents because it’s incredibly relevant today.
Electronics
At least one subproject of the MK Ultra project was about the electronic control of human behaviour (subproject 119). Subproject 119[40] had the purpose to provide funds for a study to make a critical review of the literature and scientific developments related to the recording, analysis and interpretation of bio-electric signals from the human organism, and activation of the human behaviour by remote means. The survey encompassed five main areas: techniques of activation of the human organism by remote electronic means, bio-electric sensors, recording, analysis and standardization of data.
The CIA was experimenting with that in 1953 on totally innocent and non-consenting citizens. Many people died or suffered permanent psychological damage. Imagine what they’re capable of now, with today’s technology. Just look at what the NSA are capable of, some of which leans pretty heavily into mind control territory (certainly information and public opinion control, which is ultimately a form of mind control).
I only bring this up here because article shows a little of how it is they can get away with doing these types of things, including torture and drone murder (and that’s just what we KNOW about publicly). The over sight is a joke. It’s completely unacceptable and their victims have been suffering for too long.
From the link above: “Because most MKUltra records were deliberately destroyed in 1973 by order of then CIA director Richard Helms, it has been difficult, if not impossible, for investigators to gain a complete understanding of the more than 150 individually funded research sub-projects sponsored by MKUltra and related CIA programs.[22]
The project began during a period of what Rupert Cornwell described as “paranoia” at the CIA, when America had lost its nuclear monopoly, and fear of Communism was at its height.[23] James Jesus Angleton, head of CIA counter-intelligence, believed that the organization had been penetrated by a mole at the highest levels.[23]”
I can’t even come up for an expletive to adequately express myself. The people waiting for the zombie apocalypse need look no farther than in our own backyard.
—A relatively easy way to understand and use HTML within The Intercept—
Since this comment section is still under construction, there is a way to learn to use items such as ‘blockquote’,, ‘bold’, and other emphases. I use Firefox; however, a similar task is available in Chrome (and most likely for IE).
Right Click on the text item for which you want to view the HTML.
From the dropdown menu, select Inspect Element (Q)
A dialog box appears at the bottom of the screen and a ‘balloon’ appears just above your selected text.
Click on the down arrow (Node Operations) of the ‘balloon’
Select Edit as HTML (of course, you will not be editing the original text of other users)
This will display the HTML formatting in detail for you to use as a guide to construct your own HTML enhanced text. For example using
Thank you, Nemo_Est_Insula… Appreciate the time/effort/info :)
Thanks.
The CIA is totally out of control. I love that Rep. Amash called the intelligence briefings a game of 20 questions. Such as “Does the govt have a moon base?”, “Does the govt have a talking bear?” “Does the govt have a cyborg army?” (personally, it would kind of cool if we had all those things.) But the fact that the CIA obfuscates what they are really doing and apparently has no oversight is incredulous. Clapper should be fired post-haste.
It seems to me that from the moment secret agencies were given power in our government it ceased to be a democracy.
Our constitution and our laws say that Congress is supposed to exercise oversight over them. BUT THAT DOES NOT GIVE IT THE POWER TO REALLY DO THAT.
It does not look like anybody has any power over the secret agencies. Everyone is subject to their whims. They do everything they want.
Onto the blank screen that is the information they give us lets assume the very worst.
It’s happening now. Notice a slow down on your internet speed? No, it’s not Netfilx- it’s the government making this so. Meta data is collecting everything you ever said or ever will say. Dossiers- The Other White Meat.
Couldn’t agree more. There is no reasonable argument against the notion that these secret agencies are antithetical to any real concept of citizen government.
It makes ‘us’ – by definition – a police state. An individual’s awareness of omnipresent spying/data collection alone has a chilling effect on discourse and political activity/participation, without even delving into the innumerable abuses both possible and guaranteed by it’s practice.
That no oversight exists – or can exist – is inarguably terrifying. Their power is total, and anyone that isn’t absolutely horrified simply hasn’t thought the issue through, or isn’t paying attention at all.
Beyond the more obvious avenues of abuse, I have little doubt they have built predictive behavior models, and have or will use their unprecedented power to influence public discourse (beyond ‘straightforward’ lying, I mean). They can trace the roots of public opinion as it forms. Identify sources of information/opinion that threaten whatever vision they have for the world. A vision that, generally speaking, seems to be mainly about maintaining global military dominance in order to maintain the longstanding class system/calcification.
It just keeps getting scarier, and more impossible to reign in. More and more “agencies” are created seemingly by the day. Even large cities are getting in on the act – with hands-on support from the CIA – operating in secret and across state borders. It’s absolutely baffling that people are accepting this paradigm shift so meekly. Or maybe they aren’t, but there no longer exists an outlet through which citizens can even express dissatisfaction, as both the media and the government act as subsidiaries of those entities owned by the wealthiest among us.
Even scarier is the fact that while people of good conscience (and basic common sense) try in vein to keep abreast of what new powers have been claimed by the CIA, the NSA – with a much larger budget – continues to operate without scrutiny. Were it not for Snowden (assuming he is true and trustworthy. Which I do, fingers crossed), we would know nothing at all. The CIA almost seems to serve as an outrage buffer… A sponge that can absorb, wear down, and deflate public attention, outrage, and energy.
I don’t see how change is even possible at this point. We have no real elections, no political parties that actually put the concerns of citizens first or sincerely hold to what is alleged to be our founding vision, no mass market news source, and a television filled with endless fictional shows that serve only to reinforce acceptance of authority and to sew mistrust among actual citizens (the recurring message being ‘don’t trust your neighbor, and remember that all police actions are right and proper [‘and in fact X Police/Intelligence Agency has it’s hands tied behind it’s back by technicalities and those darn civil rights lawyers!’], one hundred percent of the time’)
I’m afraid that this is one of those ‘games’ that’s already over before you even realize it’s being played. The time to stop this was back when it became fashionable to mock trumpet-sounders as ‘conspiracy theorists’ and ‘paranoia junkies’ (a trend that’s just as trenderrific today as it was then)
We have no Congressional oversight of secret agencies, and in fact have very little ‘Congressional’ left at all, at least in the sense that it’s understood by the general public (representatives of the people).
We’re up that famous creek, I’m afraid.
What I said yesterday is that it is. Unfortunately I do not know anymore what I said yesterday. Fortunately others have a better memory ;-)
I find that Father Peyote compels you to remember things you really don’t want to confront. Like the latest LSD studies. Oh, I wish for the daze of the future. Or the past. Now, join me on my journey into the Mysterious Mountains to talk to spirits from long ago. Much listening is involved.
Quee! Quee! Says the owl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz0WX6c6HVY
What a cold world we’re left with- without truth tellers as Bill Hick, George Carlin and Lenny Bruce.
We still got Glennzilla tho! And for that, I am grateful.
We have John Stewart and Steven Colbert … except that most people just think it’s comedy. Jokes on them.
I have no background in any such stuff but I woke this morning to hear on the news questions about our possible intelligence failure to know what Putin was up to.
That got me to wonder: If our NSA keeping tabs world-wide on electronic transmissions, did not they not know about the Russian move? If not, why not? If not, is what they do worthless?
The Russian Government recently purchased a ton of typewriters. Does that answer your question.
I’m sorry that I sold my IBM Selectric with the bouncing ball years ago. I wonder if I can find one on eBay? I also need to learn more about carrier pigeons. Typewriters and Pigeons are our new safe communications method along with our childhood usage of two tin cans connected by string.
You’re still trackable. Take the letter to the PO, police cameras probably picked up and recorded your license plate. Enter a public building or a store, CCTV probably uses face-recognition by now, certainly the retailers want to sell you that box of Cheerios you looked at, in that store in the strip mall next to the PO, and certainly your presence there is a matter of public record, even if you paid in cash and didn’t use an ATM (Cheerios was on sale that day, so you probably used your loyalty card for that retail chain). And even if you don’t use your cell or landline phone, you still have cable, don’t you? Certainly your credit bureaux and bank know what your transactions have been.
Short of moving to Alpha Centauri, I don’t know what to tell you.
Thanks for the descriptions. I saw something awhile back that claimed that the from&to mailing addresses were photographed at the PO and sent off to the big Spook. Wouldn’t surprise me.
I think the safest country here on earth is currently Russia. I’m glad Snowden was stranded there by the US revoking his passport. He is still alive and speaking out. If he had left Russia, I believe he would have been killed or rendered/extradited by the CIA or hired contractors.
You may notice that I use my real name. They know me so why try to hide my identity.
I intend to watch the live stream of Snowden, Greenwald and the ACLU on Monday, 3/10 at 11AM Central Time. Julian Assange presents this Saturday to the same South by Southwest Technology Conference. Glenn, Snowden, and Julian will all appear via video.
“You may notice that I use my real name. They know me so why try to hide my identity.” Indeed. Given what we have learned I can’t help but wonder what people who comment anonymously think they are protecting. I suspect among the worst fears of those who are monitoring us is that we who challenge them begin to do so openly–it means the control they exert through fear is losing its hold over us. Commenting under one’s real name also has the added benefit of continuingly making one acutely aware that you are never really anonymous online–at least not to those who we rail against.
Much of their control is built on fear and self-censorship (and anonymity *is* self-censorship in a similar way that metadata is content, the body of the message isn’t the entire message). We participate in our own disempowerment by not openly challenging them,. I will not succumb to either that fear or that self-censorship.
Yep… The good ol’ “Mail Isolation Control and Tracking” program.
“But we only store the images for a month or so”
lol
I have always assumed Congressmen were being monitored. It is the only explanation for their odd defiance of common sense, after a few years in DC. What has amazed me is the spook agency’s insatiable thirst to accumulate info on the rest of us.
And Supreme Court justices. To the rightwing’s dismay, ACA was ruled constitutional because Robert’s has allegedly adopted kids from Ireland illegally. (Which this ‘health care plan’ enriches the insurance co’s, Big Pharma and bought out ‘medical journals’ at the expense of true single payer ‘medicaid for all’ policy- thank you sellout Obama).
And then there’s the ‘Citizens United’ ruling that effectively turned a representative democracy into a plutocracy in one fell swoop. Done and done.
Dossiers ain’t your fuckin’ friend (h/t The Stasi & The Gestapo).
I’m for just about anything that hastens the demise of the grand house of cards and its occupants. I think this “revelation” is well, anything but a revelation–except maybe to congress. it is fortuituous in that perhaps congress might see more clearly that the long arm of corruption and deception and oppression may start with us lowly citizens, but they too, are not immune.
I like to think this will provide incentive for more people to join the ranks of outrage and harness the collective, meaningful effort that can potentially bring about a new paradigm.
UBUNTU: “if it’s not good for all, it’s not good at all.”
Very well said Sovereignintegral, and I share that hope too. Its fascinating here, because in a way we are all having that much needed public debate. It would be great to see some of the US and UK Government, come her in name too. Maybe even some representatives from the NSA, CIA, and some named editor owners of the mainstream media too. There is a huge amount of resources, and information already gathered here which is representative of a wide spectrum of the public. Its good that both sides on many issues have been represented too. If the NSA is watching this, as I have no doubt they are, then I hope that it at least provides them with some” take aways” and learnings regarding public opinion. The Intercept and its readers commentary section is my number one read currently, as there is so much to learn here from both the quality of its journalists and its readers.
The “house of cards” that we suffer under was created by the constitution.
Clearly “representative democracy” is not democracy.
All “representative democracies” all over the planet have failed in practice.
Representatives cannot and should not be trusted.
Our representatives, military, “intelligence”, police and most corporations to suppress us
while they rob us blind. You would think that with 300 million handguns in America, that we would be doing something.
I’d go further and propose that the house of cards and the grand deception reaches much farther back than the constitution. Much farther. The transnational banking elite and what we now refer to as corporations are and have been at the helm for eons. They have creatively orchestrated and continue to refine an agenda that adulterates the entire fabric of humanity that is solely designed to benefit the select few that dominate and control the world’s resources–including people, who knowingly and unknowingly do their bidding. The concept of unity and collaboration for the benefit of all has been eroding for centuries and we have become (understandably) so indoctrinated and lost within the dark labyrinth of illusion that we have unwittingly relinquished our rights and ability to think independently and intelligently/wisely and use our co-creative powers to speak truth to power that enslaves our hearts and minds.
As for guns, I’m not a proponet of violence, nor do I think we need to rely on such if a sufficient percentage of the world’s population stands together courageously and in solidarity, to rip away this ancient veil of illuison that keeps us imprisioned to believe in a lesser version of what we really are.
Regards
I don’t believe anything a white man sez to me. Been fucked too many times by treaties that were broke. Love, American Original (17,000 years plus)
Applause! Extremely well stated. I concur.
I hope that you will continue to use the comments section of the The Intercept in an effort to open eyes, hearts, and minds.
We can stand together on this planet to act as a definitive light force. Light will always win over darkness, and this is the simple truth.
Yes…we can win collectively. It is our planet. our home, and we can fight to make it our own. We are much more powerful than the “elite.” They have only monetary control and a bag of negative tricks. We have sheer numbers, infinite wisdom, and infinite universal support. So shine that light and call for cosmic reinforcement….watch them retreat.
Bravo sovereignintegral!
Fantasy is Fun!
This is true. Never underestimate the power of light. When we give up and give in, they’ve won. The tactics they use — from divide and conquer to drugging us up, dumbing us down, locking us up, overwork and underpay — all designed to do just that. But darkness can not exist where there is light. It is up to us to be the lighthouses.
So well said, soverignintegral. We must stand together, must end this being divided and conquered.
I must also hope and pray zephie is right, too, and that light will prevail.
You may be dreamers, but your dream is more likely to work than any “realistic” proposal made here. Defund the CIA? Who will do that? The congressmen whose dirt is stored in a big red file in the CIA’s “top priority” cabinet? It’s possible that the American people could swear to forgive and forget when that dirt hit the front pages of the CIA-owned media, but what about the family and loved ones of these venal, philandering, corrupt-as-hell individuals we elect to public office? Blanket amnesty may be the only hope – letting everyone come into the light, as it were, even the Bringers of Darkness. Not sure how that is supposed to play out…
Someone once said that a society is defined by the stories it tells. In that case, we should watch less Avengers and more Local Hero. And of course, read less NYT and more Intercept!
From The Phoenix program (Wm Morrow 1990)
“As (CIA attorney Robert Goodloe) Harper wrestled with the problem of judicial reform, a mild-mannered, medium-built, retired Marine Corps colonel, Randolph Berkeley, tackled the detention camp problem. Before retiring in 1965, Berkeley had been the corps’s assistant chief of staff for intelligence. In 1966 he was hired by the Human Sciences Research Corporation to do a study in Vietnam on civil affairs in military operations, and in early 1967 he briefed Komer in the White House on the subject. Komer liked what he heard and hired Berkeley (who had no corrections experience) as his senior adviser on corrections and detentions) in which capacity Berkeley returned to Saigon in July 1967 as a member of the ICEX staff.
Upon arriving in Saigon in July 1967, Berkeley was assigned by Evan Parker to manage the SIDE (screening, interrogation, and detention of the enemy) program. Berkeley and five assistants — all experienced corrections officers — were listed on paper as employees of Public Safety’s Department of Corrections.
“Shortly after my arrival,” Berkeley recalled in a letter to the author, “I was called to report to General Westmoreland. I found him with staff members and Ambassador Komer, and it was explained to me that I needed to draft a plan, within a few weeks, which would make the prisons secure from attacks, as valuable lives were being lost in capturing VC who would then be sprung quickly to fight again …. The Westmoreland meeting turned me into an operator so busy with his requirements,” Berkeley explained, “that my focus was more on prisons than detentions. [14]
How hard can it be to stop funding the CIA. That should put them back in line…..
Impossible to stop since they are self funding (the War on Drugs has been good to the agencies).
“McClatchy News Service on Tuesday reported that the CIA’s inspector general has asked for a criminal investigation into CIA monitoring of computers used by Senate aides who were investigating the agency’s prominent role in the Bush-era torture of detainees. “
Hahahaha! As if criminal charges would ever be brought against someone in the CIA. The only way anyone in the CIA is ever going to get in trouble is if they do something to piss off the CIA itself.
Exactly! Just like local cops. Almost the only way they ever get in trouble is when they report other cops doing something illegal.
“McClatchy News Service on Tuesday reported that the CIA’s inspector general has asked for a criminal investigation into CIA monitoring of computers used by Senate aides who were investigating the agency’s prominent role in the Bush-era torture of detainees. “
And by Wednesday, the tune had already begun to change:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/05/220273/senate-staffers-slipped-secret.html#storylink=cpy
Sew doubt, fight a delaying game and wait for the gamechanger to appear….or for the next big scandal to knock you off the front page so you can continue to do your dirty work in places where the sun don’t shine.
It’s all about the strategery.
Sow. Doubt is Sown….although I suppose an argument could be made that the CIA also sews……mostly shrouds for their opponents. :-s
On a roll here!
Where’s my comment posted 30 minutes ago?
Happened to me several times last night. It’ll show up eventually; mine came in several hours later. I’ve developed a patient and tolerant view of repeat comments as a result. Don’t know the origins of the problem. Could have been initiated on my end; too many hyperlinks, switching computers, too many comments too close together, too many script protections….???? Or, could be the ability of the sight to handle traffic….???? But, at least in my case, all my “delayed” comments all showed up in the end.
Thanks, TallyHoGazehound. It was a callout to IT with suggestions on how to format this skygodforsaken comment section. Mebbe they got all snooty about my suggestions. I’ll wait. :)
Noticed the same thing myself; stuff I posted appears later, at least the stuff overnight.
CIA meddling in domestic politics is shocking, but not quite unprecedented. Those from Minnesota may remember how the CIA interrogated Governor Jesse Ventura on how he managed to win as a third party in the 1998 gubernatorial election: http://www.mprnews.org/story/2008/01/03/jessecia
A year ago, I would have dismissed Governor Ventura’s claim as false. Today, I am not so quick to dismiss claims and conspiracy theories. With all the revelations on the NSA/CIA/FBI lies, dirty tricks, subversion programs, persecution of whistleblowers, and stonewalling, I now give claims such as Ventura’s the benefit-of-doubt until I discover factual information that proves them to be false.
You don’t have to take Governor Ventura’s word for it. The CIA admitted it on the record to Minnesota Public Radio: http://www.mprnews.org/story/2008/01/03/jessecia
Off Topic- ATTENTION IT PEOPLE!
When you get around to this crude comment section, I humbly ask you to consider one of these two options, regarding format.
1) Continue with the ‘Nested Comments’ (as now) but make it possible to know when someone has replied to one of your posts (without having to reread the entire damned comment section). A ‘reply alert’, if you will.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017179315
OR
2) Have NO nesting and have a ‘Quote’ button on the ‘Comment’ box so you can keep the reply together with the original post.
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2014/03/05/lsd-reconsidered-for-therapy/
Unless you’re registered at HotAir, you prolly won’t see the ‘Comment Box’ so here’s a screen shot.–
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww138/Napewaste/Political/Screenshot2014-03-06at74910AM_zps567d7f69.png
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION!
Disclaimer: I have registered at Hot Air (a conservative site) just because they have a sporadic registration window (usually about 24 hours) and it doesn’t happen often. I’m a Moby!
Note to infiltrators- tread carefully because the rednecks will ban you in a Marxists New York Minute.
I remember that bear – he was being trained as a covert agent to operate in a Russian circus. Everybody liked him, but then a secret cache of weapons – kalashnikovs, portable rocket launchers and grenades was discovered in his room. He started ranting and raving about his right to ‘bear’ arms and we had to suffocate him using a copy of the Second Amendment. So Rep. Amash, your question should have been ‘does the government have, or did the government ever have, a talking bear’. Their response – ‘it depends what the meaning of “have” is’ – would have tipped you off that you were on the right track.
I remember that bear – he was being trained as a covert agent to operate in a Russian circus.
I have a t-shirt with that bears picture on it:
http://binged.it/1gcKHsA
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THESE NSA AGENTS ARE SPYING ON FINANCIAL SERVICES EMAIL AND USING THE INSIDER INFO TO MAKE THEMSELVES RICH? I WOULD
Sad. Then that makes you a total hypocrite. There’s nothing fair about this but to imply you’d go along is despicable. Hey, you got a shot at the NSA! Congrats.
Maybe now the gov can see how the intelligence community to a lesser level the CIA, is out of control and that the Patriot Act needs to be repealed? Why not include a non binding vote this November to see how many US citizens want this act repealed? The funny thing is we have been asking for changes to data collection for how long and it hasn’t happened?
Congress should take an immediate vote to defund the CIA and NSA completely. Tell them they will all be going home permanently until they have answers. What I think they will find is that we would do quit fine without the CIA and the NSA and that those tax dollars could be put to good use elsewhere.
Congress should take an immediate vote to defund the CIA and NSA completely.
It’s would be wonderful but I’m pretty sure that the NSA/CIA have a large enough fistful of short hairs to make this an extremely unlikely outcome, sad to say.
Good grief. It would be….
Defund the CIA? We can do with them?
NO! It’s the other way around, The CIA would do just fine with out you and me!
If the Senate Intelligence Committee hasn’t done anything wrong, they have nothing to hide then, right? lol
I wonder if the CIA or NSA got GCHQ to watch their Yahoo webcam sessions too ?
What’s all this latest fuss about, maybe they were only collecting the Senate Commitee’s metadata anyway ?
Come on Nate where are you ? I am dying to hear from you on this one ! Haven’t you compiled a viable defence yet ? Where is that Mr Summers too ?
I already commented earlier.
Good to see you Nate, and my apologies, as I had missed your main comment. I had seen your earlier two regarding The Guardian, and your first when you asked who had said that President Obama knew. I have not read the book which you mentioned, “Tim Weiner’s Legacy of Ashes” but I do know that the CIA were quite critical of it on there website. I remember it being said that its not the definitive history it purports to be. I am currently reading Americas War on Terrorism, and also Blackwater, but I will certainly add Legacy of Ashes to my Kindle now too. What do you think will happen next in regard to the revelations regarding the CIA and the alleged spying on the Senate Intelligence Committee ? Do you think that there will be a criminal investigation, and do you believe more importantly that the report needs declassifying so that justice can be served ? Have you read the book George W Bush War criminal, and if so what did you think about the research that it contained ? It seems to have been a wasted effort though as nothing was done about the allegations which were contained in it. Anyway I hope that you are okay, and good to see you back.
@Mister:
It’s hard to say what will happen next other than the CIA Inspector General will review what happened and wait for the DOJ to make its decision on how to proceed. There are still a lot of questions to be answered but if the CIA was indeed spying on the Committee’s workstations, it sure seems there should be some hell to pay. Whether it results in criminal charges is dependent on what occurred and the application of the statutes. What makes this so odd is that the workstation was at a CIA facility so I am not sure if or how that factors in. But just the notion that the CIA was spying on the SSCI should make peoples’ blood boil. After all, not only does it raise the matter of violating Executive/Legislative separation of duties but seemingly goes against Executive Order 12333, Section 2.4 (http://atsdio.defense.gov/Library/EO12333.aspx)
I cannot imagine how they could justify any of those exceptions. But I’ve been keeping an eye on the story. Here are some of the most recent links I’ve dug up:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CIA_INVESTIGATIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-03-05-17-46-35
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CIA_INVESTIGATIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-03-05-17-46-35
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-draws-scrutiny-over-searching-senate-panels-computers-for-interrogation-data/2014/03/05/5d93ac66-a4a4-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/05/220232/brennan-agrees-computer-fraud.html
http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-strategy/200038-senators-alarmed-by-alleged-cia-spying
To answer the last part of your question – I do believe that the torture report needs to be declassified.
Haven’t read that, and good talking to you too.
anon – Maybe that is how Anthony Weiner’s weiner problems got exposed :)
Lol your wicked Person ! I’m getting a little bored now though, and I think that I am in need of another report from Glenn, or its got to be Yahoo here I come ! Meanwhile though to help with the boredom, and in the absence of the authoritarians, and army of bots who seems have been slaughtered and given up. Take a look at this link to a video which someone posted on Youtube, then go to the website mentioned, watch the videos and we can have a game of spot the ak47, bit like where’s Wally but much harder lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYz-gtwIKCk
Metadata comes from mobile phones. The CIA was monitoring the Committee’s computers, most probably by using a keylogger or by hacking wireless routers.
The CIA, NSA, and FBI have much newer technology than keyloggers to monitor computers. Jacob Appelbaum’s recent presentations on Spook gadgetry includes photos, graphics, descriptions , manufacturer, and cost of the latest built-to-order spying equipment. 50 – 100 billion dollar budgets can get manufacturers to design and build all kinds of spying tools (toys) – think Star Trek technology.
I retired after 40 years in IT and the sophistication of these available-now gadgets blew my mind. Very scary. Even tin hats are compromised. Jacob’s presentations (video) are available online. I’m a technologist and I had to replay parts of his presentations before I understood these new spook gadgets. Watch them and be prepared for the nightmares that follow.
Thank you for yet another revealing, and fascinating report which has served to bring all of the background and information together on one page. This report has effectively helped to join the dots up so that events can be seen clearly. Now the World has to wait to see just how soon this report is released, and indeed if it ever does get released. If the report does come out then surely there must be an opportunity for the report to be compared carefully with all other detailed information, and evidence, and witness statements on torture, and war crimes which have been compiled.
It is possible that the CIA may well have been spying on the Senate Intelligence Committee to try to find out how much is known, who suspects or knows what, and what evidence has been uncovered, and also perhaps to help them plan for what they may need to defend.
From reading Dan Froomkin’s excellent, and revealing report it is clear to me that a lot of questions need to be asked, and detailed answers need to be provided to at least the following questions :
Why has the “ CIA consistently tried to cast doubt on the accuracy and quality of this report by publicly making false representations about what is and is not in it.”
Why was an “ internal CIA report that was reportedly critical of the agency’s practices, withheld from Senate investigators and who was responsible for withholding that report ?
Why were the CIA monitoring computers by Senate aides who were investigating the agency’s prominent role in the Bush-era torture of detainees ?
Why has the White house refused to declassify a report which “is said to be highly critical of both the CIA’s role in the torture regime and its public protestations of innocence?.If war crimes and torture has been committed and assuming that the CIA have played a role in the regime of torture then surely the report must be declassified in order to determine the truth, and to bring about prosecutions if necessary, and justice for the victims.
Who is behind the intensive lobbying which it is claimed that the CIA have been engaging in to ensure that the White house does not declassify the report ?
Why has the allegations of war crimes made in the book George W Bush war criminal not been fully investigated by the Justice committee, and the UN ?
What questions are now actually asked, and how much gets revealed or declassified to the public will be a good thermometer of transparency, and accountability, and will prove an excellent thermometer of just how much, or how little democracy is left in the US Government.
Obama, upon ascending to the throne, gave the CIA and its torturers total and forever immunity. Remember his proclamation: “We need to look forward not backward”.
Obama is right there with the CIA in wanting the report to never see the light of day. Heck, the torture report on the CIA was started ages ago and completed in 2009. It’s been stonewalled by the CIA and administration for 4 years.
I found it deeply disturbing to learn that the only CIA (ex-CIA at time of his arrest) to be prosecuted/persecuted by the DOJ was the whistleblower, John Kiriahou, who disclosed the CIA torture programs and methods, including waterboarding. He was charged under the 1917 Espionage Act. Search the Internet and you will be disgusted, as I was, on how he was Persecuted by our government/DOJ for exposing the Truth on the Torturers. Our ?justice? system is inverted when the truth tellers are jailed and the criminals / war criminals walk free.
I’m a bit ignorant, but how do these agencies get money for these huge programs? Doesn’t Congress have to approve spending? Are they approving budgets for they know not what?
These agencies get money for these huge programs from tax payers, and loans from countries like China that tax payers have to eventually pay back.
Yes, Congress has to approve spending.
For your last question your guess is as good as mine but since they voted for Obamacare without knowing what was in the law my guess is yes.
There’s a typo in this sentence….
“Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) famously respond to Attorney General Eric Holder’s…”
More shocking news and good reporting.
The oversight is working fine. Congress by its nature is a multipolar institution, since it represents a wide range of interests and regions. So it is necessary for the CIA to conduct appropriate oversight or otherwise Congress could end up doing just about anything. Spying on the American people serves US national interests and so, it naturally follows, does spying on the people’s representatives.
No one should be too concerned about this; the CIA has plenty of experience in running governments. Many people assume they can only run dictatorships, which requires controlling only a single individual. But they actually excel at the more difficult task of running democracies. As a covert agency, they generally simply choose not to advertise this fact. So the US really is in good hands.
The alternative – the CIA running the Legislative branch of government directly, as they do with the Executive – is much less satisfactory for a whole host of reasons. Primarily, a Congress that is allowed to fight partisan battles is much more convincing than a Congress where everyone is simply reading from a script. Many of the representatives are lousy with teleprompters. You have to work with the material you’ve got and we don’t live in a perfect world.
So it is necessary for the CIA to conduct appropriate oversight or otherwise Congress could end up doing just about anything.
Gonna be interesting to see how many people bite on that one. ;-}
Pretty sure that the issue the CIA has forwarded to DOJ reads something like, “Congress stole that from us! Someone needs to go directly to jail!! We neeeeeed to make an example of someone here!!!!” i.e. “Can you do another Kiriakou shell game for us, pretty please?” (h/t emptywheel)
And while they are giving DOJ hints on how it should handle it’s bidness, they will be searching through their own ranks high and low to find out who – among their own peeps and those of the external contractors who were permitted (ahem) First Look privileges – slipped the Panetta Report into a bunch of docs for the SSCI aides to stumble over as they trudged over the ones deemed ‘less likely to do damage’.
Someone should write a tv show. Call it “Scramble</em? Wait, no, Scandal</em? Whoops! Already taken. I know, how about "House of Tarnation? That has a nice ring to it…..
Ok. Tags not cooperating with short, fyslexic dingers. Just hate it when that happens. Need to take a break. :-s
As crazy this crap has become, I suggest to those who haven’t already, read the Central Intelligence Act of 1947 in it’s entirety to understand the real nature of what’s coming down here. Once you’ve read it, the definition of batshit crazy will become blindingly clear. Because that is exactly what these motherfuckers are.
Precisely.
Obama and the DoJ’s Holder are so deep in complicity with CIA crimes, there’s no point in asking for anything from the executive branch, let alone an investigation.
I am going to go out on a limb and say to you that I don’t think its fair to state that President Obama is deeply in complicity with CIA crimes, and that I think that there is every point in continuing to ask for reforms, and concessions. I believe that it will be clear to President Obama that the NSA have overstepped the mark, and need reigning in. Sometimes I believe that a President’s arms get tied by the commitments, and investments which a previous administration has made. I believe that the Bush administration was worse in many ways. I think that the US Government needs to be given a little time now to straighten things out. Already we are seeing Senate voices of dissent, to many things which were created, and done by the George W Bush administration.The war machine, and military mindedness was furthered massively by the Bush administration. I think that if the President perhaps could make a few concessions now, and reign in the NSA a little then this would help. I would also hope to see President Obama grant Edward Snowden full clemency, and to open up a public debate on the NSAs mass surveillance program. I would like to see Julian Assange provided with an assurance that he would not be extradited to the USA if he was to return to Sweden to face the accusations made against him. Perhaps if the President could announce a drive across all Government Departments for more transparency and accountability then all of this may help. I believe that the President has many strengths, and that he has shown some great courage with pushing some policies through single handed. I believe that he is stronger and fairer than some before, and he has opportunities now to show true greatness, forgiveness, and compassion. I am really hoping that he can do some good now, because I think the World needs to see that, and it would be a historic moment, which certainly for me something I would always remember. Lets do what my little girl used to say when I asked her what she thought she may get for Christmas. She used to tell me daddy “wait and see”. Somethings you always remember, and I will always remember my fathers dying words too. I want to remember President Obama as a great President, and that is what I want to wait to see.
You are where I was a year ago. I was a believer. A year ago, I still hoped that the Obama I voted for would show himself. Over the last year, I’ve become better informed. The Obama I and millions of others voted for no longer exists and may never have existed except in our hopes and dreams.
Obama, his administration/DOJ, and the national security agencies are now joined as one. Neither is accountable to the Constitution or the American people. This most recent revelation suggests that our Congressional Representatives are now, like us, relegated to the bad guys / enemies category.
If I were in Congress, I would introduce legislation to defund the CIA and NSA today. I would cut the FBI funding to 10%. Won’t happen with our Congressional critters, but I can still wish, can’t I?
Spend some time learning more about what is happening. You will soon grieve for the country of our parents generation – it no longer exists for us, our children, and grandchildren.
Absolutely. President Obama has done far too much evil to be remembered as a “great” president. And five years is long enough to see the leopard for his spots.
crack……..thud.
Now go ahead and connect the dots further–IS THE TORTURE REPORT CONNECTED TO 9/11???
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/cia-spies-senate-intelligence-committee-attempt-make-sure-senate-report-finding-cias-torture-program-illegal-counter-productive-stays-secret.html
Thanks for the link. Washington’s Blog is a good site.
Are you kidding!? That site is trash.
One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I see what side you’re on ass-tro-turfer. You’re as plain as day. I’m gonna keep a look out on yer stupid shit. And rebut it, every time.
See, I don’t think you have it in you to actually rebut my comments, but I look forward to them.
As for your Washington’s Blog, one only needs to look at the ridiculous and often incoherent titles to conclude it is a hodgepodge of idiocy:
“Snipers Are Commonly Used as “False Flag” Terrorists” (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/snipers-commonly-used-false-flag-terrorists.html) which doesn’t even have a narrative but just a provacative title followed by an endless list of links. Apparently I have to read it all and do the analysis myself!!
“CIA Spies On Senate Intelligence Committee In Effort to Block Senate Report On Disastrous CIA Torture Program” (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/cia-spies-senate-intelligence-committee-attempt-make-sure-senate-report-finding-cias-torture-program-illegal-counter-productive-stays-secret.html)
False title. It appears the reason for spying is that the CIA found out that the SSCI accessed an internal CIA report. Quality bloggin!
“Reddit Passionately Wants to Discuss Censorship … But Moderators Keep Censoring Such a Discussion” Reporting on the status of subreddits…Another great scoop! Problem is, I was there on /r/politics when this happened and the mods were eliminating content whores like this very site just reproducing what the Intercept had reported.
This site consistently relies on outlandish titles consisting of rehosted content. It isn’t referred to by any other sites other than its muckraker brethren (just do a google search of their name and see what pops up). There is virtually no accountability from the writers who seemingly go under the singular pen name of the site. They don’t have any scoops or detailed analysis from sources other than themselves and its written like a high school student. Perhaps you should compare it to a place like the Intercept, which has all of those aforementioned traits that your blog site lacks.
You can frequent the site all you want though Tito, I hope it succeeds in confirming all your biases and meets your misinformation needs.
This is the first article that I’ve read from this site and its evidence and claims re 9/11 and the Commission are not far fetched. In today’s world of proven government lies and cover-ups, we need to be open to other claims and opinions. Not to accept them at face value but to investigate their “truthiness”.
As way of background, I have read the 9/11 Commission Report, “The Commission: the Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation”, “The Looming Tower, Al-Queda and the Road to 9/11″, “The Shadow Factory, the Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America”, and most everything that I could find on the Internet. I subscribe to Vanity Fair, Wired, and other mags. Vanity Fair has some well documented articles on 9/11. I have the Kindle version of the above mentioned books.
I too have read the 9/11 Commission Report and the Looming Tower (awesome book). While I haven’t yet read the Shadow Factory by Bamford yet (or Puzzle Palace), I have it on my Ipad and am currently reading his second book – Body of Secrets (also NSA-related, a bit slow to start). All the other stuff you said you view, IMO are great sources. Therefore, I think you have great taste in what you read (perhaps consider “Legacy of Ashes,” “Kill or Capture,” and “Confront and Conceal” as well.
With that said, this blog site (Washington’s Blog) is an INFERIOR source unless you want to hear some serious spin on substantive stuff! If you want some in-depth blogging that covers some of that area, you may want to peruse the Volokh Conspiracy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/) or check out the Compass by Mark Ambinder (https://theweek.com/the_compass), the work of CNET’s Edward Moyer (http://www.cnet.com/profile/edward_moyer/) and coverage done by Pro Publica. They do a vastly better job and based on your tastes, I think you’d reach a similar conclusion.
P.S. If you like ultra detailed analysis, be sure to check out this gem from the New Yorker on the NSA. It’s an awesome primer. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/12/16/131216fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all
I just picked up a copy of Philip Shenon’s “The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation” (excellent)…In what may be a rarity–I would have to agree with Nate when he recommended “Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA” by Tim Weiner…I just don’t understand why Nate is spending so much time attacking washingtonsblog instead of refuting the information the article I cited above linked to…The main topics of the article are: (a) whether the 9/11 commission was fed bumpkus intelligence relating to the torturous interrogations and (b) whether the current torture report is being held from the public because it would reveal that much of the 9/11 Report was based on faulty evidence obtained under illegal torture methods…the co-chairs of the commission are even quoted as saying the commission was obstructed in various ways by the CIA…
Another interesting thing i noted while reading Shenon’s book was that the 9/11 Commission’s Wash, DC offices were located in building secretly run by the CIA (page 84)…hmmm–that sounds like a system the CIA might take advantage of (as if they needed any help with Zelikow running the show)…
@SmokinBlueBear:
I mentioned it in a previous post above but I’ll reiterate. washington’sblog did not even get the title right on that article you linked to. It states that “CIA spies on Senate Intelligence Committee In Effort to Block Senate Report On Disastrous CIA Torture Program.” The part about “in effort to block Senate report…” is completely unfounded and not aligned with what the breakers of the story – the NYT and McClatchyDC found. What they have been reporting on is that the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) heard about or received an internal CIA report that seemingly supported it’s own 6,000 + page report. When the CIA found out about this, only then did they begin monitoring. To clarify, here is how the Washington Post stated it
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-draws-scrutiny-over-searching-senate-panels-computers-for-interrogation-data/2014/03/05/5d93ac66-a4a4-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html
To me, and I’ve seen a lot of the stuff from Washington’sblog, this is a microcosm of what they do. They mislead and get critical facts wrong. They couldn’t even get the damn title correct! The CIA was not trying to “block” the Senate report. That is patently wrong!
Here’s another problem with their blog – they constantly reference themselves. Look at that article’s first 7 links in support of their argument. They are all to themselves, hence I have to rely on a media outlet that can’t get the title right 7 more times to validate their first few paragraphs of text!?
Just for the heckuvit, I picked one of the links – the one to the part of the article that says: “And that the CIA’s torture program ended up deceiving the 9/11 commission.” I clicked their link – it was of course dead. So I googled as follows (https://www.google.com/#q=CIA%E2%80%99s+torture+program+deceived+9%2F11+Commission). The hits I got were a bunch of websites I wouldn’t be caught dead on (9/11 truth, zerohedge, opednews, examiner). In the process I found the actual link to the washingtonsblog report (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/03/911-commission-deceived-an-unintentional-work-of-fiction-based-on-cheneys-communist-torture-program.html). This article is called “9/11 Commission Deceived” Now here is a huge problem, the body of the article says NOTHING of “deceit,” “deceive,” “deceiving,” et al. This article is damn near impossible to read because there is no summary or narrative. It is an endless list of bullets. But again, continuing my review I focused on the first few paragraphs figuring they’d make the most compelling argument up front. Washingtonsblog reffered directly to an NBC news piece titled “9/11 Commission controversy” (http://web.archive.org/web/20090212035205/http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/30/624314.aspx) so I opened that. The NBC report studied the 9/11 Commission’s Final Report and determined that “more than one quarter of all footnotes in the 9/11 report refer to CIA interrogations of al-Qaida operatives who were subjected to the now-controversial interrogation techniques.” Okay – the next logical question is: were they deceived by the CIA? The NBC report continues: “Commission staffers interviewed by NBC News do not dispute the official’s assertion that they didn’t ask about interrogation techniques. ‘We did not delve deeply into the question of the treatment of the prisoners’, as one put it. ‘Standards of treatment were not part of our mission.’ According to the other, ‘We did not ask specifically. It was not in our mandate.'” There is nothing about CIA deception. NOTHING! The blame is being placed at the feet of the 9/11 commission. So now go all the way back to your source article. It is wrong. And that’s what drives me insane about sites like these. If you actually took the time to scrutinize all their claims that build their narrative, they crumble.
interestingly, after sifting through all sorts of unrelated stuff, Washingtonsblog finally discusses the NYT and McClatchy articles. Specifically, it provides their information verbatim via quotations. Now ask yourself – why not go view these instead of reading about it 2nd hand from a blog? Washingtonsblog didn’t add any value here.
In what may be a rarity – have we spoken before?
I think I effectively answered this question. The 9/11 commission dropped the ball.
That doesn’t make a lot of sense. It certainly calls into question parts of the report but at the same time, that NBC article I mentioned earlier said it impacted 25% of the interrogation footnotes. That is a lot but it doesn’t condemn the 9/11 Commission Report to a heap of worthlessness.
I do not limit my reading and research efforts only to the “Good Sites” as I have an open mind and decide for myself if I want to revisit a site again (after I followed a link as in this case). I appreciate commenters providing links and I click on them to learn more – if I value the comments. As mentioned, this was my first visit to this site and I did not find the evidence and claims in this article farfetched (not in these times of lies and secrecy).
Additional Background: I have my favorite sites which I support financially and visit daily. They include, in no particular order: ProPublica, Democracy Now (frequently watch their 1-hour TV program), ACLU, The Intercept, The Guardian, RT, NYT, and others related to my hobbies, personal interests, and special projects. Like everyone, if I want to learn more, I first search the internet. then buy books, etc. I watch tons of documentaries (HBO GO, PBS, ROKU chns) and, when materials of interest are unavailable online, or for my convenience, buy them. Recent purchases include: “Top Priority” DVD, and the Cryptome database, I’m sure that my learning actions are not much different than other commenters. I’m retired so I have time to pursue a subject until I run out of sources.
http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-strategy/200038-senators-alarmed-by-alleged-cia-spying
“Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) appeared to allude to the CIA snooping at an Intelligence Committee hearing last month when he asked Brennan whether the Computer Crimes and Abuse Act applied to the agency.
Wyden said Wednesday that Brennan responded in a letter the law did apply.
“The Act, however, expressly ‘does not prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, or intelligence activity … of an intelligence agency of the United States,’ ” Brennan wrote in the letter that Wyden released.”
I actually had to re-read that about 10 x just to figure out what the hell they were trying to say to each other. I’ve only got about two brain cells left upstairs so forgive me – but – Who lawfully authorized the investigative, protective, or intelligence activity” … of the CIA? And when I get to the bottom of that mystery I’d like to know on what grounds, did the law did not apply in this case.
I swear – the phrase “It depends upon what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.” is ringing in my ears. Stop the ride … I wanna get off.
“I’ve only got about two brain cells left upstairs so forgive me – but – Who lawfully authorized the investigative, protective, or intelligence activity” … of the CIA?”
Who? Congress. In 1947. They enacted the Central Intelligence Act. Within the act, the Director of CIA was given the power to do dam well what he pleases…with NO COURT REVIEW…ever. Read it if you don’t believe me. In fact, once you read it..you won’t believe what your eyes are telling you.
Thanks for pointing me to the 1947 Act as the official establishment description of the CIA and its legal authorizations.
Reading and understanding the 1947 Act that created the CIA is challenging. I need to reread the Act at least one more time and highlight the key points (I print a hardcopy of documents that are obtuse so I can use my highlighters – I once needed six colors to track the different legal statements and arguments. I’ll check Wikipedia and the Internet for some summary info before tackling my 2nd reading.
So, it’s a blanket self-authorization? I guess I thought it was granted on a case-by-case … that they verify it’s legality first so they would know that the law to protect them applied. I’ve been reading too much of the NSA stuff and I assumed their dialogues were similar. Thanks for opening my eyes. Your warning literally has me afraid to go read it … This his one hot mess of a cat’s cradle!!! How the hell to unravel it? How. The. Hell?
This will probably get shot down as another tin foil conspiracy theory by some of the authoritarian truth doubters on here, but its factual, interesting, and relevant so take a look anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oGoiT3TXnQ
Ignore the first part of the movie about the Waco mass murder cover up, because it gets much more interesting later.
It’s time for members of the senators and congress to show some moxie with a little civil disobedience. Go ahead and divulge classified material where you see wrongdoing. If you’re arrested, it’ll only shed more needed light on the topic. In the end, you will be regarded as heroes and not criminals for divulging government wrongdoing.
If this isn’t indicative of a constitutional crisis, what would one look like? Or have we ‘progressed’ beyond such fanciful notions?
I agree – it IS a constitutional crisis! Our national progression beyond such notions was artfully cultivated over the past few decades in the mis-education of the young who were taught to identify material comforts and self-indulgence as freedom, and to accept unending war as the means of protecting it.
Would-be tyrants of any and every age know that controlling the education of the young is key to accomplishing the ‘silent coup’, and especially where a strong constitution protects the people from tyranny. Men who crave such limitless power know, as Diogenes did, that “the mob is the mother of tyrants.”
Re: “any member can always go to the floor and say whatever they want. The U.S. Constitution Article 1, Section 6, specifically protects senators and representatives from such repercussions, stating that “for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.”
While I agree this is an important point to make, I do wonder whether the members are concerned that the DOJ would charge them anyway. In the manner of similar prosecutions, the DOJ appears to be happy to lay charges and destroy lives irrespective of the law. Not that I think this exempts or excuses..
The agencies have to be reigned in is clear. But just like the classified briefings, you don’t know what they are doing so you don’t know how they need to be reigned in. The agencies have gone off the main path and blazed their own path of secrecy which congress and the senate know nothing about. They are in effect, rogue at this point! This is outrageous and ludicrous that secret agencies are spying on congress and the senate who are supposed to be overseeing their operations. The agencies are now working for themselves and are no longer working for the American People.
Congress controls the purse strings. It could bring the CIA to its knees if only it had the spine to do it.
It would be rather surprising if the CIA and other intelligence agencies didn’t have other “sources” of revenue for those instances where “national security is so important” that they can’t involve Congressional “interference”.
I truly doubt that Congress controls the purse strings, anymore. Bankers control the purse strings. They control Congress and the Presidency. And besides, as Andrew points out, the CIA have other sources of income – drug running, money laundering, for a start.
The bankers are installing Clinton as the first female president of the USA. We know she has been chosen. We need only wait a while for her anointment to the office, a little fanfare meant to assure us we live in a Democracy. Oh yeah!
Corporate contractors know what is really happening but the elected government must not and does not.
So the corporations, by selective revelations and misdirections, will govern; and the real act of governing is beyond the ability for what is known as “the government.”
Very interesting game, but I don’t want to play anymore.
Yes your right on, Fellowthemoney! I guess you know about Cafr ???
And so on and on and on…It’s a tyranny, and it will only get worse, until we make it better.
Wow. There really is nothing left to say. We are doomed.
maybe nothing left to say, but there is a hell of a lot to do!
Can someone leak the damn Torture Report already! We deserve to know what was done in our name already! I don’t want to numb myself with sports and reality tv. I want to know, did we really torture a bunch of suspects and if so, I want to see the torturers punished in accordance with law. Are we an outlaw state! I want to be able to go to a baseball game and sing America the Beautiful during the 7th inning without feeling full of shame.
DITTO!
If you read the book titled George Bush war criminal ? you can read a lot of evidence which is well researched and presented with evidence detailing all types of torture and war crimes alledged commited under the Bush administration.
I had recently written an in-depth detailed letter to the Inspector General. I didn’t send it. I figured he’d already read it. ???????????, ??? ????! http://www.kyriemovie.blogspot.com
I tried writing in Russian, but it came up as “?????????????.” It’s a Conspiracy I tell you. http://www.kyriemovie.blogspot.com
Notice it is always investigations within government. If you are like me, they call you “crazy.” This is a smoke screen that will go around in circles. ???????????, ??? ????! http://www.kyriemovie.blogspot.com
In trying to learn where the secrecy started in Congress, I came across a video on YouTube of the House of Representatives setting up the parameters of a secret meeting (1 hour) later that evening (August 2008). The Q&A that Dennis Kucinch (Ohio) initiated, with some pushback, revealed that the last secret House session was 1983 (25 yrs ago), and the secret subject was on the soon to be voted on FISA legislation.
There is always a beginning to bad things. This was one of them,
Apologies in advance if this turns out to be redundant… Having some difficulty getting comments to show… Either too many hyperlinks, too many script protections, or swapping back and forth between computers, I suppose…
Seems some staffers might have pulled a Snowden.
Marcy Wheeler pursues…
http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/03/05/operation-stall/
And touches on the “contractors” issue that Pedinska keeps raising.
Ms. Wheeler is an excellent writer and I like her page formatting style.
@TallyHoGazehound
It’s fookin’ Alice Through the Looking Glass territory.
1) The Panetta Report appears in docs that the staffers are reviewing (howdat happen?!)
2) The staffers realize CIA’s been lying to the SSCI (illegal one would think)
3) Staffers snitch a copy of the proof of CIA lies
4) Udall tells them he knows they’re lying
5) They take a peek at the computers the staffers were using
6) Wyden asks them if they are subject to laws on computer peeking
7) Brennan says, “Yeah sorta….except when we’re not.”
8) CIA asks DOJ to look into who dun what where and when
And if the ball bounces like it did for the lawyers who got their hands on the identities of the torturers, then we’ve got some senate staffers who will be lined up in cells next to Kiriakou. And, according to Marcy (and this was something that never crossed my own event horizon), the longer they stall the more likely it is they will end up with a SSCI that will help them accomplish all of this.
It doesn’t get much more plainly fucked up and inverted than that. :-s
Oh yeah, and the contractor thing just really pisses me off because I have a long term argument going on with a cousin who insists that government runs corporations – my own position is that the collusion is so thick that it doesn’t matter, though I lean in the opposite direction – all the while the CIA is fucking bowing down to contractors, giving them veto power over what should and should not be submitted to government oversight.
Your cousin may be substituting the idea of small, local corporations, a relatively powerless subset of corporations, who are controlled by government, for the large, powerful multinationals who for the most part are arms of those who control everything down to even what he/she thinks about them.
Awesome and no doubt inspired by Snowden.
I wonder how many Snowdens got caught before he came out and are legally languishing away under in NDAA at some black site somewhere.
HO! LY! SHIT! BALLS! I JUST READ THIS!!!!
“In a combative statement issued Wednesday evening, CIA Director John Brennan chastised unidentified senators for making “spurious allegations about CIA actions that are wholly unsupported by the facts.”
“I am very confident that the appropriate authorities reviewing this matter will determine where wrongdoing, if any, occurred in either the executive branch or legislative branch,” he said in an apparent reference to the request for a Justice Department investigation. “Until then, I would encourage others to refrain from outbursts that do a disservice to the important relationship that needs to be maintained between intelligence officials and congressional overseers.”
Slow. Clap. DAMN! That squirrel’s got effing nuts!!!! I wonder if I should I apologize to Brennan for my outburst? I hate to be the one to tip the scales…
Disclaimer: I only took one psychology course in college. However, I have learned much since then through reading, observations, and numerous university and adult education classes.
I’ve recently come to the realization that I can only rationally explain the actions of many of our elected and appointed officials by assuming they are sociopaths. Here’s a definition:
Sociopath: a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Their lack of a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience helps me make sense of why they are destroying our country. I understand the usual motivators: money, greed, power, competition, … However, when I considered that many of our elected and appointed officials have spouses and children, I couldn’t believe that they would sacrifice their family member’s futures unless they were sociopaths.
Sociopaths are supposedly adept at compartmentalization.
Edward Snowden, the invaluable catalyst who engendered the debate on unconstitutional spying, seems to have instilled some additional courage in Senators Wyden and Udall. Now, if those Senators and others will perform their sworn constitutional duties, our country just might survive this debacle.
@Nemo… Udall is up for election this year, Wyden in 2016. Both are trying to save face, their asses, their campaign contributions, and the Senate from the Republicans. The fact that they shirked their sworn constitutional duties, along with the rest of their accomplices only expose them all as cowards, frauds and liars. When Wyden asked Clapper, point blank, on the floor on Congress, about NSA spying he knew Clapper lied – but told the press the answer was only “misleading”. Last June, they both tried spinning the Snowden revelations to their advantage by claiming they he tried to “warn” us all by doing everything short of releasing the classified report. But they didn’t release that report … just vague warnings and innuendo. Then you got Feinstein, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, defending Clapper as the most honest person she knows, and that he merely misunderstood the question. The inmates are in charge of the asylum!
You give those senators waaaaaaaay too much credit. Given that Clapper not only never got charged with lying to congress, let alone prosecuted – he never even got punished, except in the court of public opinion which is STILL divided! And he smugly sits in the same damn office! The only way that any of the will come forward NOW and admit to a damn thing will be at their trial, but I bet they’d all plead the Fifth!
Edward Snowden’s toe jam runs circles around these spineless, despicable morons. None of what they did equate on any level with what he did … and they don’t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as him. And I do hope our country survives this debacle … {sigh}.
*they* tried to warn
Yes, I likely give the senators too much credit; however, they have done more than any others have—to date. I do not disagree with your other comments.
@Nemo: If I may please play with your idea and finish your sentence a little differently…
“Edward Snowden, the invaluable catalyst who engendered the debate on unconstitutional spying, seems to have instilled some additional courage” … in ordinary citizens to do the right thing and blow the whistle. A challenge to anyone, who is or was employed by or contracted to work for these government agencies and have direct knowledge and/or evidence, to corroborate and confirm that they’ve been witness to and or been instructed to break their sworn duty to support and defend the U.S. Constitution.
I am fairly confident that, as more and more people come out of the woodwork, there would be an entirely different and conversation to be had when the dust settled. Now that would really make Mr. Snowden a catalyst, the likes of which would set historic and mythic precedent! And it would make many more heroes of (and for) the little people (and I say that with nothing but respect) who aspire to be like Edward Snowden for all the right reasons – not the people whose heroic aspirations are to vaporize him.
Your revision of my idea sounds good to me.
Thank you for indulging me. It actually gave me something tangible to pray for and an fairy-tale alternate ending to this nightmare that could actually redeem us in the eyes of the world. Seeing the guilty brought to justice and punished accordingly would be the cherry on top. If only….
@mona – Mike Gravel and the Pentagon Papers
That’s exactly analogous. But in those days we had some few real men and women representing us in the House and Senate and today we have sniveling cowards … outsourced corporate employees waiting to pass through the revolving door to collect their 200 (million) dollars. Or not waiting … as in the case of the Mike and Kristi Rogers combine. We need to replace all 546 elected federal officials with real people chosen from among ourselves.
I trust the intercept will upgrade the comments section such that it broken into multiple pages, with advertisements loading on each page. By implementing something modern, you will let the governments army of trolls insure the success of the publication
The story continues…
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/05/220273/senate-staffers-slipped-secret.html
via
From TallyHo’s article:
One wonders exactly how deep the CIA hook could possibly be in such tiny, sere and shriveled neuticles.
The image is compelling, but I don’t think there is persuasive evidece thay Obama is other than a willing, even eager, participant in this perverse production.
Am I crazy to think this is a worse scandal than Watergate if Obama knew about it and didn’t stop it? How could it possibly not be a constitutional crisis?
Who said Obama knew about it and didn’t stop it? That’s right – Nobody!
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/obama-cia-senate-intelligence-committee-torture
And that article’s basis:
“As you are aware, the CIA has recently taken unprecedented action against the committee in relation to the internal CIA review and I find these actions to be incredibly troubling for the Committee’s oversight powers and for our democracy,”
Not “were aware,” but “are aware.” Quality reporting from the Guardian /s/
Not much to go with here. Obama could have found out two days ago for all we know. I for one can wait to hear more. The WP and McClatchey who broke the story did not reach that conclusion.
The use of “are aware” in Udall’s letter does not preclude prior knowledge. He did not need to write “were aware”.
I believe he is referencing meetings noted in the McClatchey article from today:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/05/220273/senate-staffers-slipped-secret.html
I don’t think that reference necessarily means that Obama had knowledge prior to the SSCI bringing it to him, but I also don’t think his “I’m going to try to make sure I don’t spill anything on my tie,” response reflects well on him either.
And the timing of Obama’s knowledge takes nothing away from the fact that this could very well become – if it isn’t already – a constitutional struggle that pits the legislative and executive against each other.
There can be no oversight if SSCI is denied information that falls under their purview. If that happens then every single person who ever argued that NSA and CIA actions are legal because they are subject to “oversight” is either a liar or a dunce.
Similar to Watergate, the relevant questions are
A) What did the President know?
B) When did he know it?
C) What did he do about it?
If the President or his top advisors didn’t know what the CIA was doing, that would be scandalous in its own right. It would show that Obama and his advisors are asleep at the wheel while rogue intelligence agencies run riot.
Well Obama knows about it now. Is he going to stop it?
Obama knows the CIA assassinated (or at the very least assisted and covered up) JFK too… expect him, or anyone else in government, to go after them?
btw… the Obama is the devil incarnate thing is getting very boring zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
http://www.kyriemovie.blogspot.com/
I was serving in the military during the Watergate era and I made an effort to view many of the televised hearings. I certainly think this is blossoming into a much greater ‘constitutional crisis’ than Watergate—in my estimation, what President Nixon did was trivial in comparison.
Watergate was an overblown witch hunt for a POTUS disliked for whatever? reason,by the MSM.He won the election in a landslide,and not because of the break-in,as McGovern was either too civilized for the electorate,or brainwashed by that same MSM.Oh,the irony..
or they were brainwashed;correction.
It is appalling, to see what depths of criminality our government and our elected officials have sunk to.
I honestly can see no way out if it, barring bloodshed.
Well taking out the power grid, or a coup d’état would probably fix these problems.
Be careful what you say, men have been locked ip for less and declared insane due to political beliefs. http://www.kyriemovie.blogspot.com/
Or worse.
As JFK could testify to.
I think the full horror of the American regime is now truly emerging. If the American people are unable or unwilling to rise up and overthrow their dicatorship, then perhaps the rest of the world can help. A complete boycott of all American goods and services would be a sensible place to start – I’m sorry for the many people who will lose their jobs, but the American regime must be overthrown and a fresh start made in what could have been a great nation. A complete boycott of tourism to the USA must also begin immediately – there are countless other really cool places on the planet to go.
America 2.0 – keeping it simple: adhering strictly to the Constitution.
I’ve heard somewhere that it’s illegal to make statements or attempt to overthrow the government.
That doesn’t sound right. In other countries, NGOs demand that such speech be protected. In fact, there are networks dedicated to government overthrow, which are generally free to broadcast their views. In Venezuela it was a huge deal (to this day) when the Chavez government let the license of RCTV expire in 2007 for inciting the 2002 coup attempt.
I don’t know, I just remember I checked to see if my username was illegal. (They were following me around 24/7 trying as hard as they could to arrest me for no reason, which they did). I thought I read that it’s illegal to make statements about or attempts to overthrow “the government”. Though of course it was probably illegal in Nazi Germany as well. With all do respect from what I’ve personally seen this may be around a few 100 times worse than Nazi Germany.
I recommend we forget the wild talk and work with our brains instead. Let’s encourage a getting smarter movement instead of a getting dumber movement. No disrespect intended to anybody.
Hi troll! Having a nice day? I remember you said the same thing about Nazi Germany on another thread. It’s a pretty easy statement to debunk, if Nazi Germany is a few hundred times worse, well they killed six million Jews, so 300 x 6,000,000 = 1.8billion…as bad as the NSA/CIA etc are I don’t think they are quite capable of the genocide of 1.8bn people. It’s obvious that you are being OTT to lower the tone of the debate for all normal and rational people.
Hey no jokes I hear that “paranoia runs deep again” because I’m against idiot violence talk etc. My saying something on another threat? More horseshit. Grow up, child.
Hi Joseph K Jr. You may note in my comment that I said the Nazi Germany comment was troll work.
“what I’ve personally seen this may be around a few 100 times worse than Nazi Germany.”
This is trolling because it’s offensive to Jews, and it also paints a picture of mental illness (intentionally of course). This comment was not made by you, it was made by the poster directly above you called OVERTHROW-R1B. This is the comment that he repeated on another thread. This is what I was referring to. I replied to him/her, and my post appeared below yours. I agree with your comment completely, but I also think there is no point in engaging in dialogue with trolls, either ignore them or call them out for what they are – trolls or shills, I don’t mind which. I should probably ignore them myself but when I see earnest people attempting to engage in meaningful dialogue with them I can’t resist it.
I also do not appreciate extremist idiot violence talk, but you have to recognise that is the work of trolls working (for cash) to destroy debate.
No jokes–apologies. That was my conclusion also. The problem with this comment system is its incoherence. I did not realize the intent of your response. I cannot understand why now in the fourth week this system has not been improved. Thank you for explaining and I wish you the best. I’m done with this site.
nojokes, and other person,
The U.N. definition of genocide applies to almost everything they do.
It’s not hard to prove genocide here that easily outnumbers the holocaust just by comparing prison/mental ward population to the workers/imprisoners’ average primary chromosome percentages (and Autosomal DNA) just since 1945. Case closed right there.
The precision of the populations they target and pressure others to target around the world with their policies and “wars” is also evidence.
As well as the obvious patterns throughout their history.
Obviously CIA(and all 5-eyes) knows about it. They illegally continue to compose and orchestrate the policies and illegally “prevent” any action whatsoever from being taken to stop it.
That’s just incarcerations, they’re using a barrage of methods to extract precise genetic components from the population, also to pair people to their liking. More recently they deliver hands on technology and methodology to grassroots level, fusion centers which spread like a disease independently into neighborhood homes, offices, hospitals etc. Murders and torture which I’ve personally witnessed.
You said: “This is trolling because it’s offensive to Jews”… and whats your definition of Jews? The west’s definition which is “already” near 25% R1 Y-DNA, with 80% European MTDNA.. and what’s left of their X-DNA/Autosomal DNA?! (I’m not attacking Israel, Jews, or Arabs rather remedying the situation with the truth. The problem is 100% R1B only.)
Every “real Jew” I’ve ever seen has been in jail, a psych ward or tortured to death in the west with not a peep from the “Jewish communities leaders” that I’m aware of.
I’ll say the same for Africans, Asians, Middle Easterners, even original “actual” Europeans, every generation going on about 500 years now. They’ve been extracting the very best, strongest, smartest ones. They all just disappear.
Who do you think’s responsible for that? Just a coincidence again huh.
Who’s left for everyone else to mate with? So we’re all effected and contaminated by this process, we all have different genetics than we otherwise would have had. (not to mention effects from their study/implementation of Epigenetic Eugenics)
The very last people we all want controlling humanity’s evolution are the Western Europeans.
1.8bn is on the low end and I could go on for awhile. They’re doing the same thing to all animals and plants here. It gets worse and worse and worse.
I’ve stated obvious corrective action elsewhere on theintercept.
That’s funny last I heard the patriot act, the national defense authorization act, and Executive Order 12333 overrides all laws including the U.S Constitution and makes everything legal, and justifiable.
You have to remember that the US Government is a democratically elected Government, and therefore to talk of overthrowing them is wrong. Ok they are acting increasingly like a dictatorship, but a coup is not the answer. The best way is to encourage reform through peaceful and lawful protest. Encourage more of the press to be critical of any unjust or extreme policies they come out with, and to educate others when they do wrong. Yes you can advocate civil disobedience and not buying US companies products, but the best way to change the Government is to shame them, and vote them out next election. This way you mantain respect for democracy, and dont break any laws.
The political system relies on the illusion of two party choice which makes people think they’re living in a democracy. There is no democracy because mass opinion is swayed through media manipulation and rigged polls, and there is no republic because the electoral college consists of bought members who obey the shadow government. The most willing slaves are those who think they are free.
By laws not being enforced, people demand more laws to solve perceived problems. These laws then pile up until one day all can be enforced at once and create a legal form of totalitarianism.
@ vendetta
agreed. there is but one party: the global banking elite and a handful of corporations dominating the rest. the current political system is designed to give the illusion of choice. their fervent hope is to keep the masses distracted with this illusion, but there seem to be cracks appearing and some light is getting through.
@sovereignintegral
Tricks used by world manipulators include hegelian dialectics and false dichotomies. Hegelian dialectics is better known as problem-reaction-solution, whereby a problem is created to push people into accepting a rigged solution. Incidents such as the Oklahoma City bombing, Columbine massacre, and 9/11 attacks (in my opinion) were engineered by the shadow government to justify the further removal of freedoms from the populace to “keep them safe.” Ultimately, liberty traded for security leads to slavery.
False dichotomies are illusory choices, options that all lead to the same outcome. The dichotomies of “liberal vs conservative” and “secular vs religious” are false dichotomies because each side leads to the same end result of ignorance and imbalance.
Dan – Good stuff. Although you may be missing one small piece of the story that seemingly links together the CIA’s monitoring of the Committee with the Committee’s recent knowledge of this Internal CIA Report .
Specifically, we know that late last year Mark Udall and the Senate Intelligence Committee either obtained information about, or received the actual Internal CIA Report, a report that not only appears to be consistent with the Senate’s damning and not yet revealed 6,000 page report, but also refutes the CIA’s official 122-page rebuttal to that Report.
The piece that I’m saying links this together is that, according to the NYT:
Wow. The nerve it would take for the CIA to conclude that its oversight committee gained “unauthorized” access to the work of the overseen is maddeningly stupid. McClatchy indicated that the CIA had been fighting the committee over the past months, arguing that the internal CIA report was protected by executive privilege. But wanting to have their cake and eat it to, “The agency has downplayed the importance of the document, characterizing it as a compilation of summaries of classified documents, rather than an analytical report.”
And one must wonder if the information about the internal CIA study was been leaked to a Senate Committee member in the first place. Which in turn could explain why the CIA decided to monitor the Committee – to find and punish the potential leaker! That would be a nice distraction from any accountability for its failure to give the study to the Committee in the first place. This is merely my speculation, but information on the report got to Udall somehow.
Geez….These claims tell you loads about the CIA and its historical mission of protecting itself at all costs (see Tim Weiner’s Legacy of Ashes for a nice rundown).
They are all afraid . The representatives that we elect are afraid of what will happen to them if they do the “Right Thing”. That pretty much tells us all we need to know. They are useless to us . We will never get the Truth. Try and defund the C.I.A. , N.S.A. and see what happens, people would be assasinated to make the others quit asking questions and supersede their authority. Michael Haydens death was a warning for all those investigative journalists asking the wrong questions or trying to make them look bad. The President and Congress have no more power, if they did they would do something. Instead people like Mike Rodgers and Dianne Feinstein have sold their souls to major defense contracters and big business. See who their Big donors are , follow their money trail that does not lie.
Anyone in the reading audience from California?
via
https://www.shameonfeinstein.org/
I am Californian but I can’t sign that letter because of this:
“Feinstein has betrayed our trust and support that has sustained her for decades. To regain that trust, she must make amends by resigning as chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee and withdrawing her NSA legalization bill.”
I don’t recall how many years ago it was that I ever had in trust for Feinstein to betray. I’m sure there was a time, but I’m also sure that that was because I wasn’t paying enough attention, and so didn’t know enough about her to know not to trust her. I also can’t sign it because even if she resigned from the Senate all together I would continue to not have an ounce of trust in her. Even though she is in her eighties her and her husband are busy stealing Post Offices and selling them for profit and destroying the Postal Service in order to privatize it for ongoing profits. Feinstein, I trust, will continue to earn no trust from me right up until the day that she dies. And, shit, she might even have some stuff figured out to keep stealing beyond the grave.
Selling Post Offices to Cronies on the Cheap
Concur. “Trust and support”? I had none from the time she was Mayor. And it is on point here: she seemed unable or disinclined to control her security forces, i.e., the SFPD, which was a problem given the fallout after the Moscone-Milk trial. It gets better: it was under her watch that the SFPD took umbrage at a news story and came into the Chronicle city room to arrest the reporter, Warren Hinkle. (Paper, next day, cartooned her as Little Bo-Peep).
I get your meaning of trust, and I suppose that specific meaning is the one ioerror used when he composed that message. Further, I respect your decision which is based on the meaning of trust that you’ve assigned.
I would gently suggest that there is an alternative meaning one could generously afford ioerror’s statement which might resolve some of the conflict you describe.
Trust, among an array, can also mean:
For better or worse, DiFi has held her office for 22 years. That office (office also having an array of meanings) is more than just a place or title in the sense in which I’m using it. More towards: A duty or function assigned to or assumed by someone.
It is undoubtedly true that DiFi – having sworn an oath to the Constitution has betrayed the trust of office. Framed that way, I can see ioerror’s intent. Her withdrawal from Senate Intelligence Committee and rescinding her NSA legalization bill would, I think, restore a degree of trust to office.
That trust to office is not hers to betray. It is bigger than she is. In the sense I’ve described, were I a Californian, I could sign this petition in good conscience. I don’t think I’ve simply played an NSA-type game of semantics. I think I’ve broadened the argument to be something bigger than DiFi, and something that could reasonably be applied to every single member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Jacob Applebaum wrote the letter? I ask because he is ioerror on twitter, but I didn’t see that anywhere in the letter. I’ll seriously consider your definition about ‘trust’ and consider the letter more comprehensively — and then maybe…
Thanks for posting it and for elaborating about it.
Surprise! The spy agency spied on it’s naive boss? Who’d have ‘thunk. They’ll be looking to distance themselves from each other after this mess.
This is an insightful – if, utterly, horrifying – observation.
Dear, Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-N.M):
The help you seek is at the end of your two arms. That’s it. There is no one else who can help you aside from yourself. Look around you, Sir. Who has more authority than you? Who has more Article I protections than you? Who has more access than you? What voter, what House member, what member of the Executive Office, what colleague on “the other side of the aisle” is it that you’re looking to rescue you? Seriously? Who is there if not you and your like-minded colleagues on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence?
Edward Snowden shames you, Sir. And, shames every other member on your committee. You are a sad, sniveling, whinging child standing in his shadow. You would need only mere ounces of Snowden’s courage to find the help you need. Just look in a mirror… if you can stand the reflection looking back at you.
With Absolute Regret,
-TallyHo
Wow! Awesome letter Tally!
“The sky is falling! The sky is falling!” What-the-eff-ever! These chumps have known what the hell has been going on and did ZERO to stop it. Go ahead and cry. Maybe if you heads weren’t up in the clouds for so damn long you might have noticed that there was, in fact, a shitstorm brewing. Welcome to our world asshat!
Waggled finger wave, El B. Nice day to you, too.
@TallyHo … backatcha. The gall of those people. They need a dedicated volume of the DSM just to define and classify the emerging psychopathies of these nutjobs. If it weren’t so scary it would be pathetic. BTW – loved your letter.
Beautifully said. History will judge and tell the giants like Snowden from the midgets of the current congress and thieves and liars of the executive scum. Let’s hope it will be while US of A is still a free country.
The US Senator who leaked the Pentagon Papers says the same thing as TallyHo says about Sen Heinrich stepping up.
The title of the article is ” Former Sen. Gravel: NSA Leaks Should Have Come From Senators
Edward Snowden didn’t have to risk years in prison, senator who published Pentagon Papers says.”
It was published July 9, 2013
Here is the link
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/07/09/former-sen-gravel-nsa-leaks-should-have-come-from-senators
Mr. Gravel demonstrated his statesmanship as a freshman senator. Our current senior senators should follow his fine example. I did not know that congressional staffers had the same protected speech. Thank you for the link.
@Don – Thank you for this link. Great read.
“Any member of Congress can release any information that they think the public should see,” Gravel said. “No member of Congress has availed themselves of that privilege since 1971.” That he did it, as a freshman senator, says a lot. To read about what lengths he went to to do it speaks volumes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_or_Debate_Clause
“Gravel sees leakers as an essential part of democracy who are, in his view, unjustly persecuted by tyrants posing as democrats. All three branches of government, he said, collaborated in keeping secret for years the NSA programs exposed by Snowden.
“From my point of view Snowden, Manning and the other whistleblowers are people who are following the law a lot more closely than the people who prosecute them,” he says. “If you see a crime being committed you have a responsibility to report it.”
That Stick a fork in them – they’re done!
*Sticks*
Kudos !!! Great letter. I wish the various constituents of these politicians would react en-masse.
I’m sure we (and I mean all involved in this site) can help out with some questions. In what way, why, is CIA surveillance of this intelligence committee classified? National security in what sense? How is this CIA behavior different from a rogue force within the government? What gives General Alexander the credentials to be proposing legislation to limit citizens’ rights to information? To what extent is the classified material released by Snowden a) a danger to national security and b) a danger to disclosures of secrete economic-military policies? If you can’t answer a) due to national security explain it some other way that shows that credibility that you’re not hiding clandestine behaviors (as have been steadily revealed via Manning, Assange, Snowden). The problem is credibility. Questions needed to assess that credibility further.
This time is somewhat similar to the late 1940’s, early 1950’s, when government forces such as J. Edgar Hoover, opportunistically followed by Joseph McCarthy, cooked up, for example, the need for a loyalty oath at American colleges such as UCAL Berkeley. That “ism” then of course was all about “the red scare,” versus our current “ism”, and enormous damage was done to academics and Hollywood actors and generally those who wouldn’t get in line. It’s a very similar time (as with at the beginning of such a time). The problem seems to me is the automatic “security” wash that can be spread over a populace–viz these last few days and all the snark material pouring forth–and of course the bickering and rancor accompanying. That holds back trying to figure things out–and ask questions. I think we need to keep asking questions. A lot of questions. My number one question is when people like Alexander are going to take us seriously enough to present a credible argument in support of their claims? My understanding is that all these behaviors are necessary to protect us from the terrorists. This view now seems similar to the Bush-Cheney advice in 03 as we went to war in in Iraq that we should wrap our houses in plastic to avoid being attacked by Saddam’s WMD. I know, I know. You think I’m making that up. In short, I want to hear an argument instead of the easy dismissal “I can’t tell you anything, it’s classified.” Please. I’m all ears.
PS in case interested in U Berkeley etc 50’s loyalty oath days (related to Arthur Miller’s play The Crucible especially)
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/uchistory/archives_exhibits/loyaltyoath/symposium/schrecker.html
How much more hard evidence do WE THE PEOPLE need to see that “representative” democracy is a complete failure ?
The constitution has failed us. We have to get rid of the unaccountable (elections are a joke) representatives and come up with a direct approach.
Illegal wars of choice, bailouts for banks, tax breaks for super rich, spying on citizens, etc.
Seriously, how bad does it have to get before we revolt ?
The intelligence committee with ca. democrat Feinstein has continually failed us the American electorate. I would prefer the committee would have a stronger head such as Oregon democrat Wyden.
@Carl … “The constitution has failed us. ” No, it’s the politicians who were elected that are complicit in this banana republic. It’s the President and his Administration he appointed into authority who have failed us. It’s the Supreme Court that has failed us. And every single employee (with knowledge/evidence) who works/has worked under every one of them that sits on their whistles. They are cowards and traitors. Those people failed us, not the piece of paper they swore to uphold, not the ideals of democracy. Otherwise, everything else you said was spot on.
As bad as this potential violation would be, your conclusion that the Constitution has failed is eye-rollingly over the top.
There’s a problem here, The torture documents were published on the inter net when Jay Bybee was lil bush’s legal adviser. They were published as White Papers. Later pulled down and classified as secret.
I don’t believe Our Country works like published documents regardless of who published it can now be with held and punishable for discussing stating what in it, or any other set of conditions! Its open knowledge! Admitted lil bush protected Bybee by getting set for life as a Federal District Court Judge, and thereby covering his own ass, but again They were published!
Jay Bybee’s “torture memo”, dated August 1, 2002, is available on the Internet. It is 50 pages in length, was a composite of three memos authored by John Yoo, Deputy Asst. Attorney General, and signed by Jay S. Bybee, Asst. Attorney General. The recipient was Alberto Gonzales, Counsel to President Bush. Additional “torture” documents and instructions were released , including another memo, dated 3/14/2003, written by John Yoo.
The CIA and the Obama Administration are still stonewalling Congress (see above article) and the ACLU (FOIA) re releasing anything more to the public.
The US Government/CIA operated torture camps (black sites) outside of the USA beginning over ten years ago and still refuses to tell the American public “the whole truth and nothing but the truth”, or as Paul Harvey said “the rest of the story”. We all know the CIA tortured people, many of them innocents, and know its bad, but as time goes by with continuing stonewalling, it must be Really Really Bad.
In my haste, I forgot to share Yoo’s and Bybee’s conclusion from this 50-page memo. It is that “self-defense is a legal defense to torture”. So I guess that a torturer could claim self-defense if ever accused of torture, and would receive full unconditional support from the US government based on the 8/1/2002 Jay Bybee memo.
The UK courts have recently stated that a Muslim’s claim to having been tortured by the USA/Britain must be false because both governments have said they hadn’t (his jailers were unknown by name to him). His attorney said who tortures you and then gives you his business card.
Any chance this mess is going to get fixed anytime this decade? I can’t get any media coverage in my country as to what’s going on here except when Glenn Greenwald reports on it and then it doesn’t seem to resonate with the media. Our government won’t even talk about it.
How long before someone justifies this with “spies spy, so what’s the big deal”? Or “this is nothing new”? How about “everyone does it — Russia is a lot worse”? Or even “if the committee has nothing to hide…”
That one is not only funny, but it speaks to this:
“Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) referred to what he called “unprecedented action against the Committee in relation to the internal CIA review,” and described it as “incredibly troubling for the Committee’s oversight responsibilities and for our democracy.”
The entire population of the US and much of the world is being spied on, including businesses and Lawyers and clients. Someone should tell Udall that his Senate committee and other Senate committees are nothing more than an example or a microcosm of the millions of us requiring privacy in our day to day lives as a necessity for functioning like normal human beings instead of accused criminals with no rights to privacy and no expectation of privacy.
Just thinking out loud … Will the ensuing scandal that the CIA got caught spying on the committee supersede the scandalous contents and weight of the actual report itself? Both are damning, to be sure, but I wonder if the CIA would take the bullet on the former just to take the focus and attention off the latter? It would at least buy them time to get the report classified and effectively buried — and they’d only get their pants pulled down once, sparing them the justifiable and cataclysmic ass whupping that the details within the report allude to. I’m not suggesting a conspiracy theory – humiliation is one thing – but I could see them throw out a flashbang device just to spare them virtual destruction. Just a thought…
Also … I apologize if I’ve failed to see it, but how did the committee find out they were spied on?
“The allegation comes on the heels of a fruitless quest by members of the House and Senate to get NSA officials to confirm or deny whether information on phone calls by members of Congress has been swept up in the agency’s metadata dragnet. (Since it’s so indiscriminate, presumably they have, but the NSA won’t say so.)”
You realize if the NSA is telling the truth about what it collects, which is not unimaginable, then it would be extremely difficult for them to find out whether it has phone data on members of Congress or not? Not impossible (map a comprehensive list of congressional phone numbers against all their data) but very expensive and cumbersome.
The only way to fix this is for congress to pass legislation that gives them full access to all classified information, unredacted, and automatically grants all members of congress TS/SCI clearances that last the duration of their terms in congress.
Thanks for raising this, and for mentioning the Constitutional immunity designed to make members of Congress can become whistleblowers without fear.
The real traitors to the Constitution are the likes of Sens Feinstein and Chambliss and Reps Mike Rogers and Mike Thompson, all on the Intelligence Committees that claim to oversee the NSA.
When James Clapper lied about bulk surveillance to the public, committing felony perjury in the Senate, they could have simply said “I know what he’s saying isn’t true.” on the House or Senate floor with none of the risks a Snowden took. When asked about this, and about warrantless surveillance, Rep Thompson’s staff had no answer. Hilariously, they were too busy begging constituents to turn off their tape recorders! http://my.firedoglake.com/davidl/2013/08/26/rep-mike-thompsons-secrecy-and-failed-nsa-oversight-audio/
Maybe not yet, but this is very close to authoritarian government. Perhaps it already is and they are just tired of pretending otherwise – look at how comfortable they are while lying. Safe and snug in the bosom of the Empire.
This is why I can’t get all warm and fuzzy over Senators Wyden and Udall. They talk about being so frustrated to have known the things the NSA was doing but which they “could not” say. And now there’s this torture report that the public in a democracy has every right to know.
Surely some legislator can snag a copy of the report and read it into the public record from the House or Senate floor? And just as surely a truly brave and patriotic Udall or Wyden could have done so re: the NSA?
Senator Mike Gravel read the Pentagon Papers into the record back in the day. We need a few federal legislators with that kind of guts now.
Again unable to post with masked email – what’s up?
All this sounds like it is very close to authoritarian government. Perhaps it already is full on authoritarian and they are finally getting tired of pretending otherwise. They all seem to be so comfortable when lying.
Could be that they want the Senate to know they’re monitoring them. It could head off some embarrassing questions.
– – –
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brennan, does the government have a talking bear?
DCI BRENNAN: Mr. Chairman, the existence, or non-existence, of a talking bear is classified, either way.
CHAIRMAN: This committee needs full disclosure. Fully briefed.
DCI BRENNAN: Well, sir, I can disclose some previously-classified information. Speaking of “fully briefed,” for instance, Mr. Chairman, are you wearing the pink lacy panties today? Or the black lacy panties?
CHAIRMAN: Er —
DCI BRENNAN: I should also tell you that, if you’re going to be tying up young men in your basement like that, you shouldn’t use polypropylene rope. Natural fibers like cotton or manila, say, won’t chafe and are easier to knot.
CHAIRMAN: No further questions. Meeting adjourned.
“Natural fibers like cotton or manila, say, won’t chafe and are easier to knot.” And they’re biodegradable too, kids! I would add hemp to that list … it’s legal now. Thanks for the laugh :-D
“Natural fibers like cotton or manila, say, won’t chafe and are easier to knot.”
That’s why they’ve been used for hang mans nooses for centuries. Seems like a good time to confirm it. I have a few nominations for testing purposes.
What you do in a situation like this is very simple–you eliminate their funding.
From all that has been revealed to the public in the past nine months via brave news media organizations and journalists, we now know that the national security agencies, with support from the Obama Administration, conceal the truth of their Surveillance systems and actions even from Congress, and, if some truth manages to escape through the cracks, gags them under threat of exposing “state secrets”.
In our current rigged ?legal? system of secret laws, interpretations, and courts, any American, even Congressional Representatives, have been and will be prosecuted/persecuted for exposing the lies emanating from the NSA/CIA/FBI and related federal agencies. There is no Oversight when the overseers have been spayed and neutered. So much for the protections of the Constitution and The Declaration of Independence.
Obama and his administration are now putting the final nails in the casket that was constructed by Bush and company after 9/11. Our democracy/Republic is on its deathbed.
Edward Snowden risked everything to inform “we the public” of the hidden and secretive programs our government uses to spy on all our digital communications: phone, e-mail, webcam, texts, Internet searches, websites visited, contact lists, tweets, video chats, i.e., everything. When will one of our Representatives be as brave as Snowden and stand up on the floor of Congress and tell us all he/she knows about the evils perpetuated by our government, especially the DOJ (a misnomer) and the national security agencies? Where is today’s Paul Revere?
Jim, this is very well said. We need someone that is perceived to be in power to take a stand, even if they are prosecuted for their bravery. Don’t see it happening or it probably would have already…. how bad does it have to get?
Unless people are willing to vote for what would normally be considered “under qualified” candidates we’re headed towards the typical establishment family choices.
Where is today’s Paul Revere?
The answer to the above question is: his name is Edward Snowden. Its the people he informed who now need to step up to the plate.
Tony: The only people left in the USA that can expose the National Security programs, lies and deceptions without being arrested for divulging “State Secrets” are our Congressional Representatives. They have full Constitutional protection in speaking out during a legislative session. Senator Mike Graval, Alaska (D), read the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record in 1971. The full story of how he accomplished this objective is impressive.
I’ve long been of the opinion that the CIA is the number one terrorist organization on the planet. They overthrow democratically elected governments, kidnap, torture, and assassinate completely innocent human beings for political reasosns, support right wing death squads, and a lot more atrocious behavior. What American heroes they are.
Forgot to mention that they also operate their own criminal drone wars in several countries we are not at war with…. just a little side business they are in that compliments the rest.
Since they operate in countries with the military who also does drone “targeting”, the CIA can and does refuse to say if their drones were responsible for the killings since, by saying “it’s us”, they would inform us of the drone strikes targeted by the military. The military, naturally, never claims the killings were done by their drones – they may even say they don’t have any “killing” drones.
As it turns out, neither the CIA or the US Military is ever responsible, except when they get a known terrorist (and not, for example, the 16 year-old son of a suspected American terrorist).
Maybe not quite yet but very close to authoritarian government I would say – or maybe it is just full on authoritarianism and they are just tired of pretending it isn’t any more.
The CIA increasingly makes use of corporations to undertake its missions, its research, its surveillance and military operations. Whoever owns those corporations, whoever has majority interests in them, those persons apparently also own the government from the White House all the way down to us, the people. Does anyone think that is not so, or that their ownership even ends there?
The CIA increasingly makes use of corporations to undertake its missions, its research, its surveillance and military operations.
Indeed. The last paragraph of the NYT story on this spoke volumes to that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/us/new-inquiry-into-cia-employees-amid-clashes-over-interrogation-program.html?_r=1
Seems to me a good question from the Senate Intelligence Committee might be why outside contractors get priority over committee staffers. Do they have a higher clearance than the SIC?
It certainly looks that way, doesn’t it. American Oligarchy, and it’s only beginning to exert its powers.
” American Oligarchy, and it’s only beginning to exert its powers.”
Yeah, and 300 million gun owners are waiting for them to step over the line. And the American Oligarchy knows it.
I suspect American Oligarchy has been exerting its powers since the early part of the previous century. But recently, it’s been getting more upfront about about it.
I agree – previous powers were more subtly exerted, mostly behind the scenes. And the political posturing and advertising that swayed the common man to vote for his own oppression was so highly sophisticated as to go unnoticed except by a very perceptive few categorized as extreme.
But now, the PTB are ready with anti-personnel weaponry in the arsenals of local police forces to put down any disagreements citizens may have with these new unconstitutional powers the 1% have slowly accumulated unto themselves over this last century.
We are at distinct disadvantage in this battle. And I, for one, no longer have more than a remnant of faith in the courts, especially SCOTUS.
In addition to “why”, should we not want to know “who”?
“I told you so” just doesn’t quite say it.
This is a U.S. Senator afraid to inform the public over fear of getting arrested. Let that sink in, for a moment.
Obama is a war criminal for protecting war criminals.
That reminds me of when some few brave congressmen opposed passage of the TARP bill back in 2008.
They were told panic would strike the markets and and the country, and there would be Martial Law in America. IIRC, Marcy Kaptur was among those threatened as well as Brad Sherman in the video clip below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8
Even with all its warts, TARP has been a success. We don’t know what would have happened if it hadn’t been used and I am pretty sure no credible person raised the issue of Martial Law…
Success for whom? Certainly not Main Street.
Credible person? The person reporting that in resisting the theft of the People’s Wealth by Goldman Sachs and J.P.Morgan he was threatened by them is not regarded as credible by you?
Strange values you got there, Nate.
“Even with all its warts, TARP has been a success.”
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
maybe in your parallel universe.
Aaaaaaaaand Nate just gave traction to the myth of “too big to fail – too big to jail”. Thanks, man. They have you right where they want you.
Care to back your assertions!? Because last time I checked, TARP recovered 97% of its outlays and helped recover the economy.
Also, my opinion is not some outlier:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/10/public_opinion_and_bailouts
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42135.html
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/as-tarp-expires-a-look-at-its-flaws-and-success/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/04/20/why_tarp_was_a_success_278122.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/40152707
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/09/tarp_and_congress
So if you want to disagree, then make an actual point instead of acting like petulant know-it-alls.
Sure Wall Street paid it back … and made quite a return given all the subsidies they continue to enjoy. TARP is paying for all those obscene bonuses and retirement plans. And how many of them stood trial for the economic disaster? Get off your non-outier, high horse … but maybe you only need it when your riding the low road? This isn’t petulance … and I sure as shit don’t know it all – but don’t get your butt hurt if I know a little bit more than you. Buh Bye Now.
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-execs-went-to-prison-during-the-last-fraud-fueled-bank-crisis/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/12/this-is-a-complete-list-of-wall-street-ceos-prosecuted-for-their-role-in-the-financial-crisis/
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/business-economy-financial-crisis/untouchables/press-release-23/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/federal-government-should-stop-subsidizing-wall-street/2013/03/28/c976b8d0-917a-11e2-9cfd-36d6c9b5d7ad_story.html
Backing up my assertions with your own sources:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-why-few-bankers-gone-to-jail
http://www.economist.com/news/economic-and-financial-indicators/21572781-wall-street-bonuses
http://www.politico.com/morningmoney/0114/morningmoney12699.html
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/30/goldman-awards-blankfein-14-7-billion-in-stock-bonus/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/11/24/obamas_policies_have_helped_wall_st_fat_cats_120768.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101022751
@ El B – I see we’ve reached the part of the discussion where you effectively move the goalposts? You see, TARP was never intended to be some framework to send Wall Street criminals to jail. That is a totally different issue and something that is done by the FBI, DOJ Criminal Division, and U.S. Attorneys. So try to stay focused for a moment. All your links seem fixated on the “Too Big to Jail” which is a good issue, but is a problem that exists REGARDLESS of whether or not TARP occurred, and not something I had brought up.
All that leaves you with is some possible reading comprehension issues and a strawman argument. How you got so confused by 2 lines of text is beyond me.
Two lines of text? Um… ok. Clearly TARP’s “success” isn’t AT ALL related to any further, greater failures in the big picture. “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.”
If we’re going to agree to disagree then lemme break it down … I’ll assume you’re on the side that TARP’s success equaled itself at 97%, game over. While I choose to believe it’s so-called “success” had the opposite reaction, the ball is still in play and my team is down. That’s not moving goal posts. It’s physics… and reality. And if we played by your rules the game would end at the 7th. So let’s just do that, kay? You win. Peace out.
For your viewing pleasure:
https://www.google.com/search?q=TARP+failures&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS520US520&oq=tarp+failures&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0j69i60j0l3.2271j0j9&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8
I understand that a Congressional Representative has protection from prosecution only if he is speaking on the floor of Congress. However, his protected speech lasts only until the member holding the gavel says “times up” or closes the session. Likely, someone speaking would get five minutes.
It can be done, if there is the will to do it. Senator Mike Gravel got the Pentagon Papers into the record this way:
Mona, thanks for the info. 1971 was 43 years ago so maybe my wish for another brave Representative will be fulfilled. I read his Wikipedia entry. Senator Mike Gravel was a Senator (D) from Alaska who was elected in 1968 and served two terms: 1969 – 1981. His most recent political activity was as a candidate in the 2008 Presidential Election.
“if there is the will to do it.”
So..yea, nothing will be done then.
… and, I would add, none of them have enough integrity, character, honor or nobility to fall on their sword, blow the whistle, and let the cards fall as they may … and they sure as shit lack any measure of stealth, finesse and class to GTFO of Dodge, get the information into the hands of a responsible journalist – with thoughtful and generous conditions – and seek immediate exile, even if it meant doing so with the help and shelter of their own country’s worst enemy … Spending the rest of their lives looking over their shoulder and sleeping with one eye open. Forever.
It should be very clear who is in charge. In another few years they will not even have to pretend that the Congress oversees them, unless something very fundamental changes.
I’m confused. Who, exactly, is “in charge”? In other words, who is directing – from on high – all of the nation’s intelligence activities, and who is receiving “the product”? Who are Obama, Feinstein, et al. protecting/serving?
It’s not exactly a “who”. It’s Financial Capital.
Yeah!