One of the more bizarre aspects of the last nine months of Snowden revelations is how top political officials in other nations have repeatedly demonstrated, or even explicitly claimed, wholesale ignorance about their nations’ cooperation with the National Security Agency, as well as their own spying activities. This has led to widespread speculation about the authenticity of these reactions: Were these top officials truly unaware, or were they pretending to be, in order to distance themselves from surveillance operations that became highly controversial once disclosed?
In Germany, when Der Spiegel first reported last June that the NSA was engaged in mass spying aimed at the German population, Chancellor Angela Merkel and other senior officials publicly expressed outrage – only for that paper to then reveal documents showing extensive cooperation between the NSA and the German spy agency BND. In the Netherlands, a cabinet minister was forced to survive a no-confidence vote after he admitted to having wrongfully attributed the collection of metadata from 1.8 million calls to the NSA rather than the Dutch spying agency.
In the UK, Chris Huhne, a former cabinet minister and member of the national security council until 2012, insisted that ministers were in “utter ignorance” about even the largest GCHQ spying program, known as Tempora, “or its US counterpart, the NSA’s Prism,” as well as “about their extraordinary capability to hoover up and store personal emails, voice contact, social networking activity and even internet searches.”
A similar controversy arose in the U.S., when the White House claimed that President Obama was kept unaware of the NSA’s surveillance of Merkel’s personal cell phone and those of other allied leaders. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein claimed the same ignorance, while an unnamed NSA source told a German newspaper that the White House knew.
A new NSA document published today by The Intercept sheds considerable light on these questions. The classified document contains an internal NSA interview with an official from the SIGINT Operations Group in NSA’s Foreign Affairs Directorate. Titled “What Are We After with Our Third Party Relationships? — And What Do They Want from Us, Generally Speaking?”, the discussion explores the NSA’s cooperative relationship with its surveillance partners. Upon being asked whether political shifts within those nations affect the NSA’s relationships, the SIGINT official explains why such changes generally have no effect: because only a handful of military officials in those countries are aware of the spying activities. Few, if any, elected leaders have any knowledge of the surveillance.
Are our foreign intelligence relationships usually insulated from short-term political ups and downs, or not?
(S//SI//REL) For a variety of reasons, our intelligence relationships are rarely disrupted by foreign political perturbations, international or domestic. First, we are helping our partners address critical intelligence shortfalls, just as they are assisting us. Second, in many of our foreign partners’ capitals, few senior officials outside of their defense-intelligence apparatuses are witting to any SIGINT connection to the U.S./NSA [emphasis added].
The official adds that there “are exceptions, both on the positive and negative sides.” He gives two examples: “For instance, since the election of a pro-American president, one European partner has been much more open to providing information on their own capabilities and techniques, in hope of raising our intelligence collaboration to a higher level. Conversely, another of our partnerships has stalled, due largely to that country’s regional objectives not being in synch with those of the U.S.” In general, however, many of these “relationships have, indeed, spanned several decades” and are unaffected by changes due to elections, in large part because the mere existence of these activities is kept from the political class.
The implications for democratic accountability are clear. In an October Guardian op-ed, Huhne, the British former cabinet minister, noted that “when it comes to the secret world of GCHQ and the [NSA], the depth of my ‘privileged information’ has been dwarfed by the information provided by Edward Snowden to the Guardian.” Detailing what appears to be the systematic attempt to keep political officials in the dark, he wrote: “The Snowden revelations put a giant question mark into the middle of our surveillance state. It is time our elected representatives insisted on some answers before destroying the values we should protect.”
The dangers posed by a rogue national security state, operating in secret and without the knowledge of democratically elected officials, have long been understood. After serving two terms as president, Dwight D. Eisenhower famously worried in his 1961 Farewell Address about the accumulated power of the “conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry,” warning of what he called the “grave implications” of “the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.” He urged citizens: “The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.”
A secret GCHQ memo, reported by the Guardian in October, demonstrates that the agency’s primary motive for concealing its surveillance activities is that disclosure could trigger what it called “damaging public debate,” as well as legal challenges throughout Europe. Those fears became realized when, in the wake of Snowden revelations, privacy lawsuits against the agency were filed in Europe, GCHQ officials were forced to publicly testify for the first time before Parliament, and an EU Parliamentary inquiry earlier this year concluded NSA/GCHQ activities were likely illegal. The British agency was also concerned about “damage to partner relationships if sensitive information were accidentally released in open court,” given that such disclosures could make citizens in other countries aware, for the first time, of their government’s involvement in mass surveillance.
The revelations of a global system of blanket surveillance have come as a great surprise to hundreds of millions of citizens around the world whose governments were operating these systems without their knowledge. But they also came as a surprise to many high-ranking political officials in countries around the world who were previously ignorant of those programs, a fact which the NSA seems to view as quite valuable in ensuring that its surveillance activities remain immune from election outcomes and democratic debate.
Document published with this article:


Thanks so much for the article.Much thanks again. Great. ekefdeeaeckc
Write more, thats all I have to say. Literally, it seems as though you relied on the video to make your point. You obviously know what youre talking about, why throw away your intelligence on just posting videos to your site when you could be giving us something enlightening to read? eeeekagekbda
Does Ms Merkel attend the Bilderberg meetings? There appears no reporting on the conclusions these meetings make..and I cannot comprehend why so many of our politicians are opting to appear innocent of the spying.
While driving if I go over the speed limit and get pulled over, if I say I didn’t know or didn’t see the sign I still get the ticket, Why simple not knowing is not an excuse, I am forced to be responsible about it. Sure wish there was a way to get our elected officials to do the responsible thing, either be honest or go home with hat in hand and resign, if that should not work well, then we should recall them all, one at time. Political views aside They should know or they should not have the JOB.
Does anyone think Feinstein and other Reps have concerns about being spied upon themselves. The Jane Harman “this conversation did not happen” incident while she “waddled on over to interfere in the Aipac espionage investigation” was damn interesting. Along with Fox News Carl Cameron’s four part report soon after 9/11 about datamining and Israeli private communication systems having access to 95% of Americans phone calls. Just who do you think they are really after? Enemies within the U.S. government or on the outside. Seems odd that they would just randomly want to collect non intelligence of Americans talking about what they ate last night or who they may be having an affair with etc etc. Not making excuses for these wide communication nets…but what the hell are they after…experts?
A.Merkel all window dressing, pretends to complain but complies.Angela sold out to USA right at beginning of her political career.She is on a short leash, HA HA they are NSA right under her nose and up her you know what.If SHE had an independent BRAIN she would have quietly taken over USA embassey and CIA spy offices, but NO sHE prefers to support the NAZIs in Crimea UKRAINE , HA GERMANY if the Church doesn´t screw Germany America will, you can count on that. GERMANY has no VOICE, in fact ANY nation that hosts USA military bases or Drones HAS no voice but to vote USA WAY, SHAME NSA spies CIA KILLS, NEW NAZIS USA
First off I find it hard to believe Merkel did not “know”. Surely the security rules for a Chancellor or President or PM or FM or or would be 1. Do not say anything on the phone you don’t want to read in the media next day, same for emails. . . . This was the first rule in my NGO !!!!! 2. My question re Merkel’s slave response to USA, as she is not un-intelligent with a doctorate in quantum chemistry is: What does CIA/NSA have on her to blackmail her to the degree she acts against the economy and security of Germany and in fact of all of Europe ?
Glenn,
good job keeping track of all parallel developments. Thank you for rich and relevant links. Tell staffers a reader noticed. This doesn’t just happen without steady effort.
–Inside the Beltway
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But you’re talking about the Illuminati… you’ve broken the rules, time to expel you!
These are the same people who let this mess get out of hand…..The appointment of the President against our constitution…torture…topped by murder of our citizens in foreign lands……Special Ops Forces in over 100 countries without any hostilities declares…..F.B.I. with today’s spying combined with yesterdays…..giving us the C.I.A. where you can not get any information….payroll?? number of employees?? …..and lastly the N.S.A. the president said he would reign in …..no more spying on world leaders only the little people…..
John McCain said to arm the rebels in Syria without naming which ones Hezbollah….Taliban…..El Quida…or the rebel rebels….
Some years ago, there was a book by Daniele Ganser – ‘Operation Gladio’. It dealt with the operations of so-called ‘stay-behind units’ which had been set up throughout Europe in the 1950s; initially they had been intended to organize resistance in the event of a Soviet invasion.
But from some point on, they were used for an entirely different purpose… They were involved in acts of terrorism designed to manipulate the general public.
Some of this came out during the trial against the former Italian PM Andreotti (and as far as I remember, from the former Turkish PM Ecevit); one of the politicians back then declared that “…only one or two individuals in every administration even knew about it…” – adding that those organizations had been disbanded during the 1990s. (Just imagine the PM going up to them, telling them that their services are no longer required – and that they should go and open a pizzeria instead… And they go “…And that comes from you – and whose army…?” – considering that there are only “one or two individuals” who even know about this stuff.)
These organizations (which apparently were even set up in countries like Switzerland, Austria and Sweden) operated under the auspices of NATO.
These days, the NSA receive billions of dollars from black funds – and under those circumstances, you can safely assume that they are no longer under control of any government or parliament.
And while ‘Gladio’ may no longer exist in that form, it would be highly unlikely that there was not some form of follow-up organization – which nwould effectively form a damocles-sword hanging over the heads of each and every government in Europe.
Especially if it’s linked to an intelligence-system out of control…
A lot of this got its start as actual WW2 Nazis like Reinhard Gehlen (most famously) used their vast archives of data on the Red Army as leverage to insinuate themselves into the US intelligence apparat. People like Allen Dulles were more than happy to throw the door wide and it’s been one layer of secrecy to protect another ever since.
The second world war was a perfect soil for a crop like that…
It’s no accident that the figure of ‘Big Brother’ in Orwell’s book is described thus:
“… a coloured poster, too large for indoor display, had been tacked to the wall. It depicted simply an enormous face, more than a metre wide: the face of a man of about forty-five, with a heavy black moustache and ruggedly handsome features.”
If he is forty-five in 1984, then he was born in 1939…
Hmm!
It sounds like the Illuminati actually exists.
Granted “State security” isn’t such a conspiratorial name, but if they control the information
elected officials rely upon — its facts, its frames, and its import — then it isn’t too far-fetched
to say the world is run by a secret organization with several chapters.
Who coordinates?
How else can you buy a friend and an enemy with the same dollar
The so-called “intelligence network/dragnet” and the spooks community are owned and operated by the cabal. Clearly, they are NOT answerable to any government.
What are the chances that the Intercept could somewhat shift its focus onto the bigger picture, the cabal, so as to provide a better understanding of how the world works?
A question: if GCHQ in the UK is this pervasive, you’d think they’d pay attention to financial intelligence in matters of terrorism or, oh, money flowing between the City of London and Russia. Might be handy info during this crisis, don’t you think? Instead of spying on everybody else?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/15/ukraine-crimea-sanctions-russian-investment-london
Huh? No, of course not.
Maybe that’s what they mean by “damage to partner relationships if sensitive information were accidentally released in open court”. No more klepto-rubles.
this may be why the card game of poker is so popular, reading tells. unfortunately this intel game is played without actually being face to face, thus dehumanizing the results. the game rules are yet undefined, even as the players place huge bets with anothers equity, resources and the bankers numerical loot. most people don’t want/need a proxy to serve as their leader, they want honesty and unity, even humility and even some sensitivity that recognizes them. personal independence may be signature of success to some, except life itself always ends with the ultimate defeat. The virii will outlast us, perhaps ride into the universe evaen as the last solar atoms explodes with this motley band of blooded animals screeching in vain . Time will tell, but too few are listening.
Glenn,
$50,000,000 was invested in your venture and your web guys can’t even make text wrap properly on comment responses. This is hilarious given the content you are reporting on. Something this simple makes me question your depth.
Wow, and that is all you have to say about the article? A “poisoning of the well” logical fallacy disguised as a complaint about website technical problems? Makes me question your depth.
Apparently G Man is only interested in the photographs and layout. He likes bright colors too.
I agree! I can barely read it, especially when there are big words. What does “pr operly” mean
anyway? Neither word is in my dictionary.
Plus, where are the boobies?
Where are the comics? I love Garfield and Family Circle.
And a word-find puzzle. I love those too.
How can this be a newspaper without all the stuff that makes a newspaper grate?
Mr. Murdoch would not approve!
Well, If you cant judge the information for your self. Why are you asking for depth?
Someone should tell poor old Dianne Feinstein to take a power. Really, did congress not think they would be the biggest victims of their own policies? Is congress really that stupid?
So please chill out Dianne, if you didn’t do anything wrong, what does it matter that NSA can wiretap you, honey, really, because we sure don’t what to be terrorist sympathizers, you know, like Snowden,[because we all know that Dianne totally hated Snowden, until, surprise, surprise, she is a victim of her own stupid double talk.]
FISA might have suspected to many kick-backs for defense contracting, or something.
“So please chill out Dianne, if you didn’t do anything wrong, what does it matter that NSA can wiretap you”
Well, I am an inventer and I donot like people looking over my sholder, period. Besides that america have already stol from me so the best stuff will not reach my computer. See, NSA can not know everything but they will be able to twist a storry. A storry you would believe. I would be judged.
Do you speak or is it the sound of a twister, you know the onec that klogg news.
Take this for instance, If you condone the Irak war you are a twister.
Ok so which one of you all has the answer? If you are not the solution you ARE a part of the problem….
Is Snowden a HERO? I think not…. Mendella was a hero…. Snowden is a coward. He hides behind the Russian Government….. And why not.. it is very well known Putin would love to stick it to us just one more time….
Is there not a book in there somewhere? If not a book he is getting very good mileage out of his little stunt.
If he is so willing to spill all his secrets to foreign sources in order to protect us… he should be willing to die for them as well. Hero’s die for less.
Did he really reveal anything we should not have already known? Shame on us….
You allow any company to spy on you any time you use your cell phone or log on to the internet. The cars you buy have GPS installed and you allow Big business to rule your lives.
It seems to me that Glenn Greenwald should not be viewed as a hero but as a disgruntled (a Postal Term) one sided journalist no different than the rest of the Mass Media idiots.
There is a middle of the road out there somewhere… perhaps he can find it…..
What, exactly, is your point? Are you an inarticulate staffer for Diane Feinstein?
Troll #2. Decide for yourself if this person is employed as a troll. The use of the Goebbels tactic of repeat falsehood until it begins to be believed is common to the paid disinformation employees, as is the near-verbatim denunciation of Snowden.
Demand for “patriotic” coalition is another tactic of the hired true believers. As if it requires him or you to choose to die in order to continue violating that reasonably valid, but now ignored constitution.
There neither can nor should be patriotism for a nation which engages so consistently in invasive genocidal, or totalitarian ventures. Validity of submission to authority is not a hallmark of any intelligent individual, and pretension that it is laudable in any way whatsoever, is another hint of hired propagandist.
Notice how the disingenuous rhetoric is completed by an attempt to claim quasi-rationality, as if anything asserted was remotely “middle ground.”
Psychology has explored the human female’s slightly greater skill in detecting social deception, and this paid govt shill is unlikely to be the female claimed, although that, to, is a deceptive tactic used to suborn perceptions of validity.
Don’t forget the use of cliches and black and white statements, like “if you are not part of the solution you Are part of the problem. Are also are features of paid troll. Any the accusation that Snowden did this for a book deal or to seel out for
@Debra Standly: Did you enjoy your tirade on Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald? Do you feel better now?
Your
The definition of “good citizenship”, lies in the willingness to take ACTION, against agents of government that are NOT acting in the best interests, of the People they serve.
The same can be said of Mr. Greenwald.
Mr. Snowden has taken that action and is a good citizen. His selfless act, should not require him to forfeit his LIFE… for you or the nsa.
Character assassinations are the trademark of villains.. with a hidden agenda.
Wow. They are waisting their money on you. Oh wait, it’s our money.
Edward Snowden at SXSW:
“What I wanted to do was inform the public so they could make a decision and provide their consent for what we should be doing. And the results of these revelations, the results of all the incredible responsible and careful reporting that by the way have been coordinated with the government, and the government never said any single one of these stories have risk a human life.”
Glenn Greenwald: What is the extent of your coordination with the government regarding the stories that you are writing?
None of the Intercept journalists “coordinate” with the government. Prior to publishing an article, they contact the government agency(s) named in the article and ask them to comment. Rarely, do they hear something different than the standard official reply. Asking for comments is not “coordination”.
I believe you are misquoting Edward Snowden re his live-stream address and interview at SXSW on Monday. March 10th. I viewed his session. The video and audio originating in Russia and routed through multiple proxies were poor. If you have a verified transcript, please share.
thanks Glenn for this very interesting story, and many thanks too, to Edward Snowden for having the courage to release all this information, illuminating the nefarious activities of the people who are supposed to be “protecting us”….their version of “protection” really extending more to themselves and their rich friends, in the 1%…their version of protection being the kind exercised by “Big Brother” in Orwell’s “1984”….they would prefer if the citizens did not realise that the National Security Police Surveillance State has arrived….in many many countries….all in the name of security and the so-called and invented “war on terror”….invented just for the purposes of installing this National Security Surveillance State….because the real enemies of our governments are US the people of the countries, under surveillance….we might get restive at the plans our masters have for us…
government members may be kept “in the dark” about the details to give them plausible deniability as well as inability to interfere in the operations of the “black government”….
I can shed some light on the German side of history:
After the allied occupied Germany they thought about how they can de-nazifcate Germany and the CIA played a vital role in this. First the Germany intelligence agency BND was called “organisation Gehlen”. They recruited Nazis like Reinhard Gehlen, who was the leader of the military intelligence unit on the Eastern front against the Soviets. The CIA recruited more than 4000 Nazis in the CIA, BND and elsewhere in NATO secret armies or national intelligence groups. Some of them were very notorious Nazi criminals: SS leaders like Klaus Barbie, Nickname “butcher of Lyon”, later in Bolivia he helped the rightwing regime to establish a Gestapo. He was listed and paid in BND documents as agent until the 60s. Another one was Alois Brunner, who probably convinced Assad to produce Sarin gas. He was also a BND agent. Some former Nazis got directly recruited by the CIA. For example KZ doctors like Kurt Blome or Walter Paul Schreiber, who infected Jews in concentration camps with deadly diseases. Later they worked for the CIA in the MK Ultra project. They helped the CIA to develop their torture program. These are just some names. Bottom line is: The CIA recruited in the 50s-60s right wing extremists and communist haters. It did not matter for them, if their new employees were fascists. Some analysts say, the CIA got infected by a virus – if they were not fascists already before.
Furthermore the secret intelligence structures and especially the army structures and bases show, the US are the empire – Germany are the vasals. The BND is just a small brunch of the CIA. The German army can not operate without the US army. I.e. they cant use their Eurofighters without authorisation of a US special unit, who gives them a special code, so they can activate the military GPS.
As you can imagine – for these guys, the shadow government, it does not matter, whether the new chancellor’s name is “Merkel” or the new President is “Obama”. Chancellor Merkel rules long enough, so we can see a pattern, how she does it.
1) She is always a polite, old lady. Always.
2) She pretends to know nothing, so if a political affair happens – like her former Minister of internal affairs Hans-Peter Friedrich just got first demoted and then fired (because he warned an alleged other politician, who watched child pornography, that there were investigations against him ongoing) – she was not involved, didnt know and never knows anything. It goes even this far: In a poll 70 % of the Germans said, they dislike the government, but the same 70 % think, Angela Merkel is a great ruler.
3) She always says the same phrases and shows the same gestures. “We have to find a solution together.” So far many national leaders heard this sentence: Saudis, Africans, Asians, Europeans – sounds nice, means nothing – like when Obama is talking about freedom. She is the most powerful woman on the Forbes list – because she is not powerful at all.
For some reason the phrase “damaging public debate” of all things jumped out at me from this thought provoking story. it seems like one of those key phrases that one can safely infer bad intent behind. There’s no good, democratic reason to fear public debate. In fact the phrase is in sneering contempt of both accountability and democracy and its underlying principles.
Meanwhile, back in the UK, an augury that Glenn’s merry band may have difficulty traveling to or through the UK.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/14/britain-journalists-terrorists-edward-snowden-nsa
Rue Britannia, and all that.
For info about the personalized avatars that are appearing beside the names of some commenters, see here: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/13/president-obama-covering-presidencys-role-torture-4-years/#comment-11954
but i did not comment….
‘Your email address will not be published.’ -neither are my comments! so far anyway./
How can any rational human being read the history of what has been revealed, and not understand that the NSA is a rogue agency bent on world domination?
What else can you say about their motives? Their efforts all point to the same thing – advantage. The NSA isn’t trying to protect Americans, that’s quite obvious to anyone. The NSA is trying to protect what it perceives is the status quo. And the status quo is none other than “their kind” in charge.
Here’s where things get odd and conspiratorial, which is why I have created a fictional show to reveal to people what is really going on (though admittedly I hadn’t actually planned for such…in a bizarre twist of situational irony, my fictional idea turned out to have significant elements of reality.)
What I discovered is that psychopaths rule our lives because they occupy positions of power and influence and believe themselves to be the way humans should be. But what they are is far from it.
I am writing a paper on the topic which can be found here, in very rough draft form: http://www.wolveswolveswolves.org/moralreasoning/DevelopmentalDisorderImpactingHumanSocialEvolution.htm
I encourage you to first read through Donna Jenkins’ website, Lovefraud.com. The site describes, quite well, what a sociopath is. A sociopath is no more than the domestic manifestation of psychopathy. To know what these people are like in domestic relationships is to understand their underlying motives and reasoning. I also encourage you to read the Wikipedia article on Kohlberg’s moral development; which describes what psychopaths lack: the ability to consider the value of human life.
Basically, humans who fail to develop empathy are psychopaths; who go through life without ever understanding that other people have feelings too. They literally have no consideration for the value of human life and thus treat all humans as objects. They are ego-driven, as psychopathy was a survival skill when humans first came about. Only after we developed empathy did we beome capable of living in social groups.
But psychopaths don’t develop empathy and thus are not suited to living in groups. They are best at surviving alone, and are brutal in their capabilities to survive over others. They make excellent military leaders, and we went and put them in charge of our societies, long ago. Hitler, Stalin, Mussellini, Napolean, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., and many others are examples of psychopaths. But there is not just one group of psychopaths; they do not align together, they align for their own perceived benefit. So you also have the licks of Margaret Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and other liberal psychopaths. Barack Hussein Obama is in a class of his own; a highly manipulative serial killer (he has ordered the death of numerous Amerians, how does that make him one lick of a bit different than say Dexter?) who doesn’t have to get the blood on his hands; the wet dream of all psychopaths. But he is highly manipulated by those around him who maintain the stranglehold of power over Washington.
The ONLY way we can fix this is to gut our government of all Republicans and Democrats, and then use this independent government to gut the bureaucratic infrastructure of the NSA and other rogue agencies, especially in the military industrial complex; which is where we then need to focus our efforts – on the psychopaths’ imperialistic and power wet dream: capitalism.
But there is only one way we can do this, and that is to unite together. And I propose that we consider honesty as the tie that binds us together because psychopaths cannot defeat the truth, they can only cover it up. And if we learn to uncover the truth, instead of just taking what we are told by those who have no concern for our existence for granted, they can never again cover anything up or hide anything from us.
Psychos move to the top because people do not want to work with them because of their heinous activities engineered to ruin your life should you protest. Anyone worked with someone like that? They sometimes call it “office politics”. I have learned many times I should have gotten out of situations like that, and now I have to live with the consequences of what was done to ruin me.
On the same track, one should not dismiss the possibility that crimes such as the “mysterious disappearance” of the Malaysian jet liner was a crafted response to cover up popular media stories of Snowden and NSA. The Democrat Senate “climate change” telethon did not work to cover up Snowden’s SXSW interview, but looks like the missing jet did. Yes, there are very, very bad people in the world, and if they get ahold of every communication known to man, they can do a lot of horrible, unthinkable things. After all, that’s what criminals do. Consider also the international riots and other killings and terrorism may be connected to the same people.
Come to think of it, who can fathom the mentality of anyone willing to fly a plane into the Twin Towers and kill thousands, thinking it is the right thing to do? Who of us says “Oh, yes, I understand”, or “Their logic is profitable”? Or, “I know what they will do next”?
Do not underestimate the evil things people can do, once they decide on a goal. And do not overestimate your ability to understand what that goal is.
I agree with you and it is not just politicians and their acolytes. I would say many (if not most in a latent way) people are like that. This is why they put up with politicians. For example, people in the U.S. (let’s use “the land of ‘the’ ‘free’, ‘the’ ‘brave'”, … as an example) are not only OK with their government actions (8-timing Nazis on prorated genocide, the NSA, ecological degradation, systematic brainwashing of the worst and cheapest kind, …), but see themselves as “liberators”, “freedom fighters”, …
I grew up as an outcast under persecution in a totalitarian state (Cuba), where everybody knew the government lies to us (people at some point see it as their way of living/what they do), but I also clearly see how they lie about Cuba/its people/the Castro(s). Something that I find truly amazing is how easily it is to convince anyone about anything. People in the U.S. can’t help but see as something “stupid” when they see mass prayers by Muslims (they even believe that praying turns someone into an “extremist” (of the kind they don’t like)), yet they don’t see themselves as doing basically the same thing (I would even say in more unhealthy ways) when the average US citizen spends 34 of their waking hours (close to one day and a half) weekly watching TV!!!
I stated, in a persuasive/documented way, basically the same
// __ NSA mass collection of phone data is legal, federal judge rules
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/27/judge-rules-nsa-phone-data-collection-legal
http://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/30278896
truth and peace and love,
C
Glenn,
How the hell did Kevin Poulsen end up on the Freedom of the Press Foundation and why in God’s name would you use any technology he was involved in, much less a whistleblower submission system?
Besides partnering with Adrain Lamo to betray Chelsea Manning with bullshit promises of anonymity and source protection, here is some of Poulsen’s handiwork.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/greenwald/
“Greenwald’s incomplete understanding of basic journalistic standards…”
“And while we welcome the honest views of other journalists acting in good faith, we now doubt this describes Glenn Greenwald.”
“At his most reasonable, Greenwald impugns our motives, attacks the character of our staff and carefully selects his facts and sources to misrepresent the truth and generate outrage in his readership.”
“But by now it should be clear why we don’t seek Greenwald’s advice on a serious matter of journalistic ethics.”
Glenn,
Why would you trust this person enough to support them as a member of the Freedom of the Press Foundation?
Why would the Freedom of the Press Foundation want to promote a “journalist” who violated multiple promises of confidentiality to a source?
Do you think it is acceptable to violate multiple promises of confidentiality and out a source that trusted you as long as it generates sufficient web clicks and advertising dollars?
This can’t possibly help with donations.
Here’s some more of Poulsen’s handiwork as described by Glenn Greenwald:
“Whatever else is true, in light of these fascinating, relevant passages, can anyone argue that Poulsen told the truth when claiming that the only material that Wired withheld was either Manning’s personal information or national security secrets? Isn’t it clear that Poulsen and Wired were hand-picking which passages to release and conceal in order to shield Lamo’s conduct and claims from scrutiny and make WikiLeaks look as bad as possible: the concern that those of us had in the first place in allowing Poulsen of all people to arbitrate what gets released and what gets disclosed? ”
http://www.salon.com/2011/07/14/wired_7/
It really is quite amazing that Poulsen is associated with the Freedom of the Press Foundation.
I wonder if Poulsen is working for The Intercept too?
——–
My belated response to one of your previous posts…
Thank you for your fantastic replies and all the food for thought.
“We will lay stagnant for a generation compared to the growth we would have achieved … because of the actions of the NSA and our current leadership …”
So, you were thinking of “we”, the US, right? “Our current leadership”…
Yes, we the US.
“I believe the question I posed is more narrow, and gets to the heart of the debate with the Libertarians. They pretty much explicitly deny the reality of this “we”. On this point, I don’t think they are being unreasonable.”
I’m uncomfortable here with the word Libertarians. I don’t self identify as a Libertarian, and Libertarians are not on my designated enemies list, so I have no interest in defining Libertarianism. I just have no skin in that game.
If you self identify as a Libertarian, that is awesome, and I heartily accept your self identification and your definition of Libertarianism. If Libertarians are on your designated enemies list, I’m not interested in trying to define Libertarianism as an enemy combatant. Not that I think you are trying to do that, I just wanted to articulate my feelings on this issue. Self identified groups–good. Imposed group identity on others–bad.
Setting aside the word Libertarians, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. Everyone should be able to reject an externally imposed group identity. Even if that group is a nation state, government, or society itself.
I am looking forward to you expanding and expounding upon your last paragraph. No hurry and no obligation.
“A political group is formed at the moment that two or more individuals occupy the same physical space. As soon as we are together in the same physical space — as soon as our paths are bound to cross — all the fundamental questions of politics arise, perhaps most fundamentally, how will the physical space We share be “shared”.”
Glenn, you seem to be mocking Bill Gates and Howdy dooty pretty good on your twitter account. Is it telling of an imminent “forbes list” leak?
If you have any of my personal information in your documents feel free to use it if you feel like it. I’d have easily passed Gates and I would’ve made everyone rich.
At least open the information to the Heritage Foundation so they can properly adjust their “Index of Economic Freedom”. They directly caused me to waste my time here with their “free economy” lie.
I’d a had better “luck” in North Korea and I might be the first person to attempt a raft ride TO Cuba and that’s not a joke.
or you could have wrote it as it is: Most “Foreign Leaders” of American Allies – had and have no objection when it comes to spying for “our” Alliance concerning national securities.
The annyoing thing -(which very few were aware of) – is – that the US does it in such an overdone, disrespectful, paranoid and pathetic way – AND the objection seems to be as much “economical” as anything else.
AND that got to stop – or you lose your Allies!
-(Capice!!)
All the superb, in-depth reporting and responses document the Evil One’s diabolical plan to seize control of all worldly power by force and deception.
Do you guys realize what you’re revealing without realizing it? Technology is being used to exasperate the worst qualities and vices of human beings. For instance porn instead of romance. Or the lust in men to become god.
Glenn,
Thanks for shoving the blue pill down our throats…
Great report!
I meant red pill* (clarify before I get trolled)
You sir, are an NSA troll, sent here to insert doubt and sew discord.
Aren’t you?
Admit it? It was no innocent mistake, was it.
Or, perhaps the NSA has been experimenting with remote mind control again…
Oh yeah, and how sad is it that we make light of things of this nature? We have to joke about living in a police state…
As students of Canadian history will tell you, in the middle of the Cuban missile crisis the American military asked my country to send its lone aircraft carrier—the Bonadventure—to join the fleet in Cuba and for our military to go on high alert. Our Prime Minister of the time, who as a WWI veteran was horrified by war, ordered the military to stand down as a means of helping to cool off the situation. He was simply ignored. It doesn’t surprise me at all that there is a huge disconnect between intelligence services and their political “masters”. This is just evidence of what is called the “deep state”.
Does the NSA and other secret agencies know who they are working for?
They are working for a transnational Deep State, consisting of themselves, as well as powerful corporations and financial centres of power, and the military elites of certain countries.
This is what I want to know, who exactly do they work for…ok transnational deep state.
What about the people with 32 trillion in off shore bank accounts? What about the people and families who keep their names off (or vey low ) on the Forbes 400. Who exactly (names please) runs this “Kleptocracy” that seems to revolve around torture, human experimentation, social control/engineering, information control and various forms of slavery? I don’t get the feeling that the elites are preparing for peace and prosperity…do you?
The majority of political officials have no business being read into these programs. For one, they are given their political appointment likely based on how much money they were able to raise rather than their skill. Point in case are the recent Obama ambassador nominees. Most politicals come and go within a couple years. They shouldn’t know about every program for good reason.
So you, as a G-Man, believe that it is okay to keep the “politicals” in the dark. To that, I can agree, so long as we are only talking about inside the agency “politicals”. However, we’re not talking about those “politicals” here, we are talking about elected officials at the senior levels of Government. While I’m no fan of Feinstein, do you somehow think that you should have carte blanche without oversight? If you do, then you are a traitor to the oath you took to defend the Constitution–or did you take some other oath?
Who said anything about a majority of political officials? This discussion is about elected heads of state reduced to spectators at the opera, although they still get the best boxes. You might want to read the article before commenting.
Sir,
The most senior elected officials often know the “end product” but are kept in the dark about the methods. Per their own wishes. It’s called plausible deniability which protects them when operations don’t go as planned. Merkel no doubt had knowledge our spy agencies worked in close collaboration.
And Sir,
Your use of formal military salutations does not impress me – nor your citing of “plausible deniability, which you site as justification for actions which, regardless “necessary” you might like to think they are, are nonetheless illegal. I think you and your colleagues would be quite surprised to realize that whenever someone like you tries to defend illegal actions on the basis of “we know better than you do what is necessary,” commoners like me the world over simply laugh at your hubris, lawlessness – and most heartily at the pratfall in your immediate future.
Sir,
Get your facts straight. I am not and never have been in any military. I am not and never have been an employee of a government. I’m nothing but a well read commoner. If I were you I wouldn’t waste your time commenting on my salutations.
Tell us then, I pray thee, what is the basis of our authoritative claims to having any idea what is going on that the highest levels of the U. S. Government? Because if vy “Gman” you’re claiming to be only a suit-wearing stiff who takes my tax dollar to the bank each payday, I’m quite confident you are no more aware of what the guys in uniforms are doing than I am.
Troll elsewhere.
If you deny knowing something that you should have known, it is no more plausible if you really did not know it than if you lied. If you deny knowing something that you should have known, you look like a fool. The head of a country should understand the level of cooperation between local and foreign intelligence agencies. When foreign leaders find out that our agencies have penetrated their intelligence agencies, They do not say “Am I ever glad that I can plausibility deny knowing that!”
Sir,
Merkel is well aware of US-German intelligence agencies cooperation.
Have you ever been to Halit Avenue (Halitallee) in Kassel, Germany. NO? It is as far away as the moon. But I like the sound.
Transnational banking elites at the top of their game, for now. Forces like The Intercept just might help provide a compass that enables us to steer ourselves in a different direction. Hope no one is waiting on a messiah. We all have work to do.
The Intercept is dishing up some of the most riveting news stories and commentary I’ve read in the last decade — sometimes several times a day — and without treating me like an idiot. Bravo! This is what news media is supposed to be like!
Totally agree! I’ve been sending links to this site to the local TV news channels hoping to shame them into trying to report a little on something besides Justin Bieber or Lindsay Lohan.
So far they’ve just ignored me.
At least you’re giving it a go. Every bit of effort is of value when you’re striving to reach critical mass. Regards
I agree… Bravo +2!
This is really true
I had doubts about it longtime ago after I was aware of what are guys working in the government. They are pretty blind in MANY THINGS…… Now this is a proof for me….
Good job!
This adds to my thesis that what is emerging now is a ‘transnational security state’ and a ‘transnational corporate state'; both are in compromising truths, but, ultimately they have deep contradictions and competition.
so, it is not ‘national security’, which is always obvious but difficult to mouth due to misuse of words and thoughts.
The TSS state uses romantic nationalist emotional appeals of legitimacy to deceive ‘Americans’ and the TCS uses neoliberal logic to establish its global hegemony. The problem is one claims to work for the US while co-opting willing security apparatuses of certain ‘ally’ nations and forces weak states or propped up leaders (created often for this purpose) to embed them in it. That is the TSS and the TCS seeks hegemony through the TCC (transnational capitalist class) and TNC (transnational corps).
Again, many are members of both romantic groups, which seek to impose their romantic images on the world, trying to create the international system in their own image. The TNC state though, has no problem with remaking the domestic US state in its own terms; that is, they could care less about the constitution, imagined romantic nationalisms, or anything of the sort. They are happy to take over everything for the purpose of capital accumulation, and turning you all into consumers–not citizens.
My IR theory is more than this but romantic nationalism is key, this encourages an abuser-enable romantic relationship, whereby many willingly or ignorantly serve it due to a form of secular faith in the ‘goodness’ of the nation. It is the same as any romantic abusive relationship between two people: it demands deception, willingly, until the two parties destroy themselves.
What is seen, is what this describes without my theoretical analysis of the macro aspects, the TSS is an emerging ‘beast’ that is devouring all its ‘children’ for its own, as of yet unseen and even unknown to most its participates, goal; which is, a developing transnational security state interest that is against all of the interest of domestic / global citizens (allies or not).
In a way all of this seems very predictable. Technology has advanced so quickly during the past few decades that it would seem imprudent (from a government spy agency’s perspective, in particular) to not jump onto the cutting edge in an effort to outdo each other or at least stay abreast of the competition.
It’s no wonder that such a mindset created a culture where the Bill of Rights was/is viewed as an obstacle rather than a guidepost.
Glenn, in that document about third party relationships, last paragraph: “It’s important for us to foot-stomp that FAD is an enabling organization.”
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/03/13/third-party-relationships/?Edi
What the devil does that mean?? In or out of context?
Of course it seems clear that the Intel guys at the very top of the Five Eyes or whoever were not going to tell the political class very much. Probably as you would expect of people flying high over the world watching everybody they hold them in some contempt. They are used to playing the world like Three Card Molly. I think we find ourselves watching reruns of “Clueless.”
Public officials lie about extent of spying and other anti-dissent tactics.
News at 11.
This should definitely help to open a few eyes. The comments section is exploding.
Thank you!
This isn’t Jack compared to the old Salon days where it went over 1,000 comments on a regular basis.
Oh those troll killing days… reminds me of killin’ off all the Buffalo. Bad part is troll skins ain’t worth nothing!
But yer right- the traffic will increase (thanks to me and others advertising it).
A new leak! Today’s phone conversation between Angela Merkel and Barack Obama.
– – –
OBAMA: Hello?
MERKEL: It’s me again.
OBAMA: Angie, baby!
MERKEL: To quote the late King Hussein of Jordan, “What the f*ck do you think you are you playing at?”
OBAMA: What, do you mean, uh, that article about sharing intelligence? Of course we’ve been working with your BMW.
MERKEL: BND. BND! Bundesnachrichtendienst, dummkopf, or do you have bugs in my BMW as well? “Sharing intelligence!” That didn’t mean monitoring my personal phone!
OBAMA: I didn’t know about that one.
MERKEL: (sarcastic) Oh, is that so! I spent the best years of my life being listened to by the Stasi. I really don’t need Mr. O’Brennan breathing heavily on my cell phone.
OBAMA: We were simply trying to protect us from terrorism.
MERKEL: Du bist ein drivelmeister!! How many terrorist plots have I plotted from my office? (long pause) Yet. And what did your people mean, “Since the election of a pro-American president, one European partner has been much more open to providing information on their own capabilities and techniques, in hope of raising our intelligence collaboration to a higher level. Conversely, another of our partnerships has stalled, due largely to that country’s regional objectives not being in synch with those of the U.S.” (rude noise)
OBAMA: Well, uh, so?
MERKEL: So M. Hollande is pro-American and I’m not, is that it?
OBAMA: We were thinking of Italy as the pro-American one.
MERKEL: (splutter) Italy doesn’t have capabilities, techniques, an intelligence service or a government. And just why are Germany’s “regional objectives not being in synch?”
OBAMA: We don’t agree on everything.
MERKEL: So we have to agree on everything, like a puppet. Like Prime Minister Howdy Doody in the UK. By the way, Russia has just fully mobilized on its western border. Do we agree that that’s a concern, at least?
OBAMA: Well of course.
MERKEL: Don’t take that for granted. As for intelligence sharing, just what were your spooks doing in Kiev this last month?
OBAMA: Oh, nothing.
MERKEL: That I can believe. Worthless. By the way, how many agencies are listening to this phone call!
OBAMA: Just me.
MERKEL: I believe you. I also believe Thomas E. Dewey was president of the United States. I believe that the world is flat, as Thomas Friedman says. I believe the moon is made of sauerbraten.
OBAMA: So, what did you call me for?
MERKEL: Not to ask you to call off your bloodhounds. I know you won’t. I just want you to know Europe will now have a separate internet and a separate cell phone system, so there goes your high-tech industry. You should authorize unemployment funds for California, which will probably vote Green in the next election. We also have enough renewable energy to outlast any Russian utility shutoffs. That won’t be very long: they be bankrupt within six weeks without energy payments. That’s all the BND has to share with you on THAT, mein liebe herr!
OBAMA: What??
MERKEL: Schlockmeister. Tomorrow belongs to me. (call disconnected)
# # #
Classic!
Stuck song syndrome—with that 1970s Helen Reddy tune spinning over-and-over-and-over—forevermore—
Coram seems to have had a different song in mind.
Actually, I was thinking of Mein Herr. Different messenger, but very much on-message and on-topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX-24Zm0bjk
What a beautiful melody composed with such haunting lyrics foretelling of a pending tragedy. I was in the military at that time in 1972; I have not seen ‘Cabaret’ nor have I ever heard that song/soundtrack. Thanks for the link.
It’s not just this melody, in combination with ominous lyrics, but a masterful use of editing and cinema work. The entire film is a masterpiece, with well-deserved Oscars for editing, best actress and supporting actor (the MC). A frightening film, and perhaps worth re-visiting now.
To interject later:
The entire musical was a brilliant exercise in social commentary, more subtle than the over tdissent going on in that period.
Should you ever see it, notice with an eye cynical about official US protestations of being the white-hatted guy. You ill find every song to have double entendre.
Unfortunately “tomorrow belongs to me” was not understood in reference to the channeled young masses and overwhelming Chauvinism still appealed to this very day (and of course tomorrow) in the USA. “Meine liebe herr” can be read as intelligent abandonment of loyalty to Der Onkleland as well as Der Vaterland. But for members of the military at that time, Tomorrow. . .” can still be an instructive learning experience.
OBAMA: What??
MERKEL: Schlockmeister. Tomorrow belongs to me. (call disconnected)
CLIFF (quietly, from behind the Oval Office curatains): Still think you can control them?
The MC is losing control of the show. Unfortunately, his minions’ lyrics aren’t up to the show.
– – –
Our strategic objectives are not in synch,
The Potomac gives its gold to Anacostia
But somewhere a pro-American president awaits
Conversely, our SIGINT is connected.
– – –
Doesn’t really rhyme, but when you stamp things NOFORN it suggests you won’t sing with them anyway. Anyway, it does suggest that Angela has finally had enough. After that noogie that George gave her at the G8, she somehow shrugged that off, but apparently she won’t forgive this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTQY1Aw9zcs
Dialogue, bitches. Clap, clap, clap, clap!
The oldest argument in the rhetorical book! Well done, grasshopper.
Combined with the Deep State analysis by Mike Lofgren, the posturing reactions and admitted ignorance of the political class demonstrated by this article prove without a doubt what politicians have become in the media age: empty, stuffed shirt blowhards with neither a clue nor an objective beyond self aggrandizement.
“….prove without a doubt what politicians have become in the media age: empty, stuffed shirt blowhards with neither a clue nor an objective beyond self aggrandizement.”
Well!
John McCain would take umbrage with that statement.
He would undoubtedly blow himself up like a puffed toad on a toadstool.
/sarc
Heads up! The image of Merkel is 1,82 mb, it will eat away at your bandwith! Cheers!
Ah probably went via the NSA servers and had a bit of “payload” added ?
But that “large part” really is just part of the story. As for those in public office, beware of the unbelievable denial. it is just a lot easier and better for the career to pretend you know nothing. However, if those of us completely outside of government had a pretty good idea what was going on, then those inside did as well.
“Not being in synch with those of the U.S.” Well that rules out any country serving as a ventriloquist’s dummy. It also suggests that activities/relationships kept from the political class might suggest a sub rosa relationship among spooks (e.g., see Philby, Burgess, Blunt et al).
http://www.foodandwine.com/promo/pdfs/munchies-flowchart.pdf
They don’t even have that excuse.
Espionage is unconstitutional. No constitution allows espionage. Any law embracing espionage is unlawful and unconstitutional. Every constitution states that a government is responsible to provide health, education, infrastructure, law and order within its own borders. No constitution allows for foreign intervention. As such, military action is another country is unconstitutional. An unconstitutional act is treason. It is unprofessional of Glenn Greenwald not to read my emails. Glenn could have embarrassed many nations with the provided information. The detainment of his partner, David Miranda was illegal and a violation of his human right if the detainment occurred in transit. Transit is possible only when one passes border control and customs. As such, transit is no man’s land. Federal Airport Authority regulations are applicable, not UK laws. One must read to attain knowledge.
“the mere existence of these activities is kept from the political class.”
Perhaps we may now direct our thoughts to the CIA’s possible involvement in the 911 attacks, alledgedly directed by their former anti-Soviet asset, Osama bin Laden.
Thank you for bringing 911 up. These days even liberal progressive folks get hives if it is suggested that 911 was an inside job. Everyone seems to be in agreement that we should just sweep it under the rug. How did this happen? Corporate-owned media propaganda to create mass national amnesia?
In my opinion it is never too late to truly investigate who might be responsible for this evil, evil deed. It has all the earmarks of a US and multinational sponsored terrorist action.
Great reporting Glenn.
Democracy and transparency is the enemy of the rogue surveillance state. Please keep the lights shining on this tyranny.
Well, that pretty much settles that. We have a global network of partially cooperating, partially competing intelligence agencies operating in the dark without the approval, or even knowledge, of the (possibly) elected governments, and of course without the knowledge of the electorate (if any). That is what it looked like, but it is good to know the bad news for sure.
Somewhat relevant and pertaining to the topic(s) at hand here:
From Drudge http://www.infowars.com/foia-doc-homeland-security-monitors-drudge-report/
DHS just admits they monitor it.
Glenn Greenwald ought file a FOIA request and to see what they are monitoring here.
I think pretty much everything shared and carried on the ether, CitizenSane, be the plan for monitoring. What though is needed and missing in any largely effective phorm, are bodies which mentor and trail and trial novel leads/alternative better beta directions/ab fab fabless solutions.
That though may be something which The//Intercept and First Look Media can morph into to create …… well, in the Tow and the Tao of Spooky AI Labs, a New Orderly World Order with SMARTR Keyed Players in All Important Major State and Non-State Actor Roles.
IT will certainly have every convenience at its disposal and every hindrance suitably dealt with and/or ignored and circumvented.
Most people don’t care about these revelations. There will be no change. There will be no mass uprising. It’s over for America. Just like those who fled Germany before WW2 because they saw the writing on the wall, anyone with any sense is looking to get out while they still can. The big question is where can one go these days?
It is said that there once was a fellow who had a similar inkling of the inevitable onset of WWII. He decided to relocate to one of the farthest unknown corners of the globe. So he packed up and set sail for his new found home…Guadal Canal.
Perhaps it might be better to stay put and “kick against the pricks.”
Off Topic:
Kudos to The Intercept for their practice of not closing the comment sections under previous topics—unlike The Guardian, which closed them down within about 2 days.
Use
to search for your previous posts by entering your screen name. Some people reply to your comments many days after your final postings and may have resolved some of your questions or added substantive information.
It almost doesn’t seem worth being a part of FIVE EYES seeing what is in the document. If you give me that worthless gold in your hands, I will give you this precious lead. I honestly think that every “intelligence” head and world leader that is a part of this program has been deceived…bigtime!
I find that the Five Eyes is utterly hilarious.
It is more like the Hydra.
With each head being a one eyed Cyclops.
Your absolutely right! It is the beast, and luckily enough…the people are seeing it for what it is. If people have read revelations, this _IS_ the metaphor written. The unfortunate part is that if the NSA is taken down (one of the heads) it will just regrow. In fact it has been regrowing since WW2 with the Stasi, Gestapo, and now NSA. Germany isn’t even a part of Five Eyes, but it might as well be given the documents. So how does the Bible suggest we take the beast down?
Funny that you mention the Stasi.
Rumor has it, that now deceased Markus Wolf who was the head of the Stasi, consulted with our government when it set up the Department of Homeland In-security.
Imagine that!
It doesn’t surprise me too much considering the US Gov’t is running business no differently than the Stasi did, or for that matter, Nazi Germany. It’s right out of their play books. Just because they don’t haul innocent Jews off to internment camps, doesn’t make the blood on their hands any less red.
As far as taking the beast down, I do not know how.
David used a slingshot.
Are they really as stupid as they seem? If they are, they have no business running a country.
Funny,isn’t it?
Just as the term “Organized Crime” is a misnomer as it is not very organized
The “Intelligence Community” isn’t very intelligent.
I think two of the key factors are ego and hubris. They convince themselves of their superior intelligence, and then begin to think that they are above the law.
@CitizenSane They don’t just think they’re above the law, they ARE above the law. So is the CIA and the FBI, GCHG etc etc etc. That’s what happens when you’re allowed to classify whatever the hell you want.
“sir what did you have for breakfast?”
“classified, nation security purposes, you understand”
“Are they really as stupid as they seem? If they are, they have no business running a country.”
They aren’t running a country. The US government runs their countries, they’re just puppet states.
People in intelligence would not be surprised at all. As material is ‘filtered’ up the chain, the closer ‘hot’ material gets to accountable persons, the more likely it is to be ‘filtered out.’ This begins with ‘deniability’ wherein many politicians actually do not want to know what is actually going on behind the scene. The idea is, if something goes awry, there will always be someone to throw under the bus and leave an escape open at the top. The politicians want delivery of service, but not accountability for method. Failure as a democratic institution is necessarily built into this model because it gives license to the sociopaths necessary to deliver product. Obama may be forced to throw Brennan under the bus (an exceedingly dangerous proposition), example given, but no one will ever examine William Burns at Department of State, whose fingerprints are all over every policy failure in respect to intelligent defusing of any crisis, from Iran to Ukraine. It is the invisible people pose the gravest threat-
From a purely Darwinian perspective, it only makes sense that foreign “elected officials” (and their corporate sponsors) are largely kept in the dark in regard to the NSA’s ever-evolving Intelligence capabilities. After all, the name of the game is global dominance.
In the book “Hegemony or Survival,” Chomsky expounds upon an “Imperial Grand Strategy” that was devised by America’s socio-economic elite and implemented by their proxies in a Post War II world. United States’ foreign policy has been formulated by a privileged class who, in defense of that privilege, fully embrace the notion that we live in a dog-eat-dog world. Secrecy, duplicity, and subterfuge are merely the tradecraft of those who are groomed to publicly swear allegiance to the principles of democracy and universal human rights while simultaneously executing an unconscionable campaign of global hegemony through military, political and economic means. The closer that these elites get to their objective of global dominance the more they are willing to risk to secure those ends. The only question that remains is the degree to which “human” life on earth will be sustainable when the elites have fully sated their perpetual lust for power and limitless security…
If Chomsky is right, why would the US Government want to inform its intended prey of their pending demise when keeping them in a state of perpetual darkness best facilitates the “policy maker’s” game plan? Why would the elites want to inform their various proxies that their value is exclusively derived from their utility? After all, it is far better that your “enemy’s liver” is being served up for dinner than your own…
Good post. But I would say that the “elites” will never be sated. That is the ethos of our (capitalist) system, and those who embrace it. It will always be questions of, “how much more can I get–how much more can I take from everyone else?” This is applied laterally to some extent, though some parts of the system are designed to keep players from eating each other up, but most especially from the top down. This ethos is carefully abstracted, the faces removed from the sufferers who lose out–but some elites will nevertheless see them plainly, and at least in their institutional role, will not profess to care. Instead they will avoid or deny suffering.
People who participate enthusiastically with full knowledge of the harm they do–and justify their actions–may not be the most dangerous–that is debatable–but they are probably the most vicious. I’m sure we can all think of a few names.
But I don’t think we can look forward to a time when the system will deem that it has squeezed enough blood from the public. It simply doesn’t stop unless we stop it.
I will simply add to my original post that William Burns at State profiles as senior career CIA and certainly has doors opened to him across the spectrum of interested corporate parties, Council of Foreign Relations, example given of stealth candidates profile at: http://www.state.gov/p/us/rm/
Well said PGreen!
American exceptionalism has become little more than foolish self-aggrandizement, insatiable greed, and naked aggression wrapped in a veneer of lofty ideals.
My case demonstrates that there is not always an objective. When there is limitless funding, the operatives may frequently make detours to suit themselves on the pretext of working on a case. As a visitor and tourist I was set up in a “honey trap” by a neighbour that I considered to be a friend acting on instructions from a level of the Secret Services in Brazil that is difficult to pinpoint. I don’t believe they were acting of their own volition and I believe they must have had instructions from a larger organisation given the Petrobras incident. There was no reason for me to be targeted in Brazil. For more than 5 years I have been under unwarranted surveillance across borders and continents . I have not been charged with any crime although numerous attempts have been made at entrapment. Quasi limitless funding, lack of accountability and no clear objectives have created a self important monster that spells disaster for human rights. The policy seems to be the murkier and unclear you can leave a situation, the better. And if you can wreck relationships in the the pursuit of no clear objectives, you are on the right track. Of course money is no consideration.
I have tried posting a reply and have been prevented from doing so. Talk of hands on surveillance! When they do such things I know that the truth is painful and must be stopped at all costs. But as Shakespeare said “The truth will out” There will be another time and another place. The essence of my message was that limitless funding, no accountability and no clear objectives create a monster that spells disaster for human rights and is in effect passing the death sentence for privacy. I also mentioned the “honey trap” they used in Brazil.
Washington’s bid for “full spectrum dominance” of geopolitical space failed before the eyes of the whole world. I suppose Washington concluded that the only way to ensure “full spectrum dominance” of cyberspace was to keep it a secret from the whole world — but they didn’t factor a whistleblower into their equations (or at least didn’t figure that after wrecking the lives of 6 whistleblowers, no others would have the nerve to emerge).
— but they didn’t factor a whistleblower into their equations (or at least didn’t figure that after wrecking the lives of 6 whistleblowers, no others would have the nerve to emerge).
They’re working on that…..
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/surveillance-machine-moves-defend-itself
This is fake concern from Merkel. All the governments are in on this together.
“And Eisenhower in the last days of his administration confronted Allen Dulles. In a full-dress meeting of the National Security Council – and this conversation was declassified less than three years ago – the most compelling documents are verbatim transcripts, word for word in many cases, of conversations between presidents and directors of Central Intelligence.
And Eisenhower says to Allen Dulles in front of everybody in the White House, Allen, for eight years I’ve been after you to get Central Intelligence organized. And you have failed me. You have handed me an eight-year defeat, and I will hand on to my successor, John F. Kennedy, a legacy of ashes.”
–Tim Weiner, author “Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA” (2007)
Transcript: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11843611
(Eisenhower was the 2nd U.S. President to deal with the MIC–we all know what happened to the 3rd.)
Glen, so the big question is then who are the spooks answering to and for what purpose? Are the conspiracies right? Is it the Rockefeller’s and Rothschild’s running the show? The members of the Council on Foreign Affairs? The Builderburg’s? How far down the rabbit hole are we going to go? Simply amazing. Great job by you and the other journalists and once again thank you Mr. Snowden.
I hope that somewhere at the very bottom of the rabbit hole, lies the truth about 911. Until the day those revelations come out we have the documentary Zero 911.
Mirage, I’ll take a bite out of that apple, and here is my opinion.
Those that you mention?
The Rockefellers.
The Rotschilds.
The Council on Foreign Relations.
The Builderbergers.
I’ll even add one that you forgot. The Trilateral Commission.
One can never talk about those names, without mentioning the Polish Prince Zbigniew Brzezinski. Look at his relationship with David Rockefeller, and research it, then look at world affairs ever since. Does it ever feel like there is a man behind the curtain? Zbig is one of them. Perhaps he is a Wizard.
For years, all of those organizations have hid in plain site, with huge disinformation campaigns. They have discredited anyone and everyone who even dared mention them as tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists, and plain old garden variety nutcases. Basically, just KOOKs.
The fact of the matter is, that anyone who does NOT believe in them, and the power that they wield, is the one that is the misinformed and ignorant kook.
Listen to Madame Hillary Rodham Clinton as she shills for the CFR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYq3TaBik64
I posted one yesterday, of John Brennan spinning an interview at the CFR with Andrea Mitchell.
It only makes sense, if the NSA is not being used for terrorism and it is not being used for political gain then it must be being used for something else. If you look at the groups mentioned they have had the members necessary to funnel the money into the NSA to keep it going. Imagine if you will the story taking this path and these evil oligarchs come crashing down, congress is finally opening their eyes to the CIA just imagine if you will the peace that would break out. We could reclaim our country from the corporations and demand they pay their share and follow the rules instead of making them. We could turn to hemp instead of oil as it should have been all along. I hate to get to hopeful and never thought the rabbit hole would be confirmed, but it is sure looking that way to me today!
It appears your eyes are opening.
Continue to question everything you see and hear.
Here is the other video I was looking for, with Andrea Mitchell interviewing John Brennan at the Council on Foreign Relations.
http://www.msnbc.com/andrea-mitchell-reports/watch/brennan-eager-to-put-this-chapter-behind-us-191638595761
It raises the question.
Why are these government officials all over at the CFR? Why aren’t they at their desks, doing the jobs they are being paid to do?
To whom do they owe allegiance?
The United States of America?
The Constitution?
Or do they bow on bended knee to some Foreign Cabal?
It is time to shed some light into the privy.
Lets go the bottom of the hole where the slimy snakes are writhing in the stinking cesspool of global control intent upon controlling and/or annihilating all human life.
Just follow the money.
This article does a fair summation:
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/who-runs-the-world-solid-proof-that-a-core-group-of-wealthy-elitists-is-pulling-the-strings
How’s that for a beginning?
Glenn’s a columnist and a reporter. There’s nothing proactive about having a trove of documents dumped on you by Snowden.
U.S. Military Given Secret “Execute Order” on Cyber Operations (h/t Dan Froomkin)
http://blogs.fas.org/secrecy/2014/03/execute-order/
To me, it sure sounds like “plausible deniability” insurance.
A problem I have with the article information regarding Our elected officials being kept in the dark, comes to mind from my experiences with crimes committed by Our spies against me, a citizen, reported to Our officials, and total cover up and the absolute refusal to investigate, and the refusals to even acknowledge they had a complaint! From the bottom person to the very top appointed positions and across the spectrum of all the US Govt. agencies and departments and divisions Judicial legislative and administration. NADA!
So reflecting on the article, how is that they did not know why how to not respond to Govt Crimes against a Citizen’s Complaints? Surely, some would have responded due to rule of law beliefs, faith to their Oath of Office, or even their own moral code! So what is the mechanism that spies have to block citizens’ complaints?
Now 70 years old I have watched current events and politics closely for over 50 years. These disclosures are many times more important than any others I have ever seen. Exposing the deep state has to be the most important thing that can be done for society everywhere. I just hope it really will unravel as a result of this important effort.
Although I am not as old (although likely much more cantankerous) as you are, my agedness allows me to reflect critically on the Watergate years such that now President Nixon appears like a hallowed St. Patrick when compared to President Obama (for whom I once voted, ashamedly so).
This is curious-
From an AFP report yesterday:
http://news.yahoo.com/nsa-industrial-scale-malware-spying-150802626.html
“The report was the first by Greenwald based on leaked documents since he joined First Look Media, an organization backed by tech entrepreneur Pierre Omidyar that includes The Intercept.”
The first? I don’t think so.
About documents, I think this one is the second. Glenn has published about a half a dozen articles all together but this one we are currently reading and the one about ‘Cover Agents Infiltrate’are about documents.
Yes, I went back and looked before I wrote that, but I’m thinking the author of that article didn’t, because, as you point out, it was actually the second one he wrote based on leaked documents. It’s not ground shaking, just curious.
No, not ground shaking but it is a substantial error that should not have happened, and it should be amended with a correction.
Dear Zelda – call me thin-skinned but I am deeply offended by all the Snowden revelations. Secrets are meant to be secret and all these documents – who knows how many – have given me a little rash in the nether regions and I find I drink more shaken and not stirred martinis than usual. Don’t these traitors know there is a real threat out there called the great unwashed public, who while they know nothing, seem to have an opinion about everything. Truth is meant to be kept in the dark for the people’s own good. Sunlight is the enemy. Letting politicians know what we are doing is the dumbest thing possible. The last thing we need is a bunch of pandering loudmouths on soap boxes actually listening to their constituents. Please tell the powers that be to double-down and send in the honeypots, and porn surfing records, so we can nip this rebellion in the bud. Oh, and that Greenwald guy? Can’t we just find a way to pay him off like we do everyone else.
zealously yours,
A true believer
– call me thin-skinned but I am deeply offended by all the Snowden revelations. Secrets are meant to be secret and all these documents – who knows how many – have given me a little rash in the nether regions
thers an oinkmunt foor taht hunnee.
Jayses christ, ru BLIND?
Methinks he/she is snarky.
See the “Dear Zelda” article of a couple days ago.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/03/07/nsa-advice-columnist-seriously/
Now 70 I have followed current events and politics closely for the past 50 years – I can remember Eisenhower”s speech, and how little it was heeded. These disclosures are beyond doubt the most important events on the political stage I have ever seen by a long shot.
What we are seeing exposed for the first time is the deep state which has been control for decades.
If it is true that the political class around the world are kept in the dark then what about in the US? Sure, the congress is just a patsy and doesn’t do its job but what about the president (now Obama) does he know all? I must say I doubt it. Never-the-less, he knows what power is in all this activity and is not about to threaten it in any way.
Mr. Greenwald
“…….The revelations of a global system of blanket surveillance have come as a great surprise to hundreds of millions of citizens around the world whose governments were operating these systems without their knowledge. But they also came as a surprise to many high-ranking political officials in countries around the world who were previously ignorant of those programs……”
One of the most common arguments used by people who support the theft of these intelligence systems by Snowden is that their disclosure did no real damage to our capability for preventing extremist’s attacks whether from right wing, left wing or Islamic terrorists. Not only were hundreds of millions of people in the dark about the depth of the NSA systems, but that many of the political class were unaware as well. None of this is really surprising simply because if everyone knew about every system, then in fact, “everyone” knew – and what good could that possibly be for intelligence?
Does anyone doubt that Islamic terrorists had a clue about these systems, or the depth of the programs? Even journalists will likely quit using cell phones when contacting sources. Certainly, that is the primary reason Miranda visited Poitras in person. So the disclosure has likely already had a profound effect on how journalists conduct business (and you believe only the NSA was “listening”?). It’s also clear that the disclosure of US intelligence documents also greatly damaged our capabilities in dealing with aggression by foreign powers like the Russians in the Ukraine (ignored by everyone at The Intercept except Omidyar). Certainly the Chinese were only too happy for the publication of US intelligence documents.
Part of the job of intelligence is to know what competitors are developing in technology – and in particular, military technology. Military technology includes cyber warfare and hacking into corporations developing military technology. Snowden disclosed that the US cooperated with Israel to attack the Iranian nuclear program using malware (stuxnet). This was disclosed for political reasons since the disclosure was clearly in the intelligence realm which had not one thing to do with the “Fourth Amendment”. Most people already suspected that there was cooperation between the two countries on this project, so this was hardly surprising. But the cooperative effort between intelligence agencies shows how powerful and important cyber warfare is in the digital age. Whether you agree or disagree with the concept of cyber warfare, disclosing information about NSA and or CIA intelligence capabilities undermines the ability of the NSA to track the developments in technology of competitors like the Russians or Chinese (etc.). This of course, is for reasons of deterrent and to prevent the Chinese or Russians from gaining a military advantage (and visa versa).
The SIGINT official disclosed in your quoted passage indicated that the level of cooperation between the NSA and foreign (western mostly) intelligence was very good. This cooperation was likely very beneficial on a lot of different levels:
“…….. (S//SI//REL) For a variety of reasons, our intelligence relationships are rarely disrupted by foreign political perturbations, international or domestic. First, we are helping our partners address critical intelligence shortfalls, just as they are assisting us……”
Intelligence cooperation is, in fact, very important – and this is the statement you should have emphasized.
Mr Summers,
Thank you so much for passing on your knowledge regarding cooperation.
The Whitehouse’s cooperation is also very important when it comes to Senate Committee investigations.
Why not read this interesting recent article and educate yourself more :
“White House withholds thousands of documents from Senate CIA probe, despite vows of help”
By Jonathan S. Landay, Ali Watkins and Marisa Taylor
McClatchy Washington BureauMarch 12, 2014
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/12/221033/despite-vows-of-help-white-house.html#storylink=cpy
Unfortunately, Mr. Summers does not care about oversight or the right of the public to know what a government “of and by the people” is up to. The perpetuation of democracy is demonstrably not his primary concern,
Mr. Summers wants to be “safe”. In pursuit of that goal, he has firmly affixed his lips to the most noxious of governmental cloacae, and is devoted to the enthusiastic consumption of any and all substances – wholly unexamined – extruded therefrom.
One doubts he even has to hold his nose anymore.
Come on ! You know they smell of roses, and Summers thinks that’s where the sun shines out ! He may have to disinfect his tongue, but for Craig there’s no need for him to hold his nose or to remove his rose tinted sun glasses ! lol
I page down from this lackey’s posts every time I see the name.
Paid shill, contractor or Obamabot, I don’t get two shits. He’s on my ‘ignore’ list.
>”Paid shill, contractor or Obamabot, I don’t get two shits.”
Cracka~ass~crackas don’t give a rats ass about baby sisters bowel movements, pard. The jakes is occupied … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC4gKA0tNaQ
“…….Unfortunately, Mr. Summers does not care about oversight or the right of the public to know what a government “of and by the people” is up to. The perpetuation of democracy is demonstrably not his primary concern,….”
Actually, I do care about oversight. I’m wondering if you can cite a post that suggests I don’t. However, there is a big difference between “oversight” and illegally stealing top secret security documents and publishing the data. Some people cannot seem to tell the difference.
As far as the right of the public to know, even Greenwald understands that the people really don’t have the right to know under certain circumstances. For example, Jose (below) suggested that the people had the right to know about the stuxnet virus presumably before we infected the Iranian nuclear weapons program. Would you suggest that we take a democratic vote on support for measures like this before we actually implement that kind of a program?
The right to know is a double edged sword when it comes to National Security. I’m not sure why is so difficult to understand.
“…….Mr. Summers wants to be “safe”. In pursuit of that goal, he has firmly affixed his lips to the most noxious of governmental cloacae, and is devoted to the enthusiastic consumption of any and all substances – wholly unexamined – extruded therefrom….One doubts he even has to hold his nose anymore…..”
Certainly this kind of post will win raves (on this site) for form, but adds little substance. This is a fairly common tactic of the Greenwald mousekateers. Of course, their fearless leader sets the tone for this kind of rhetoric. I suppose he believes this falls under the definition of “adversarial journalism”.
What I’m suggesting is that aggressive acts of war (those that are not in response to other acts of war) are never legitimate. Calling them “preventive” is no excuse. If it were, then every country is free to attack any other country on the excuse that “we need to get them before they get us.”
So it’s not that people should know about such plans in advance. Such plans should not exist in the first place. Of course, if something illegitimate like that is done in secret anyway, people do have a right to know after the fact.
“For example, Jose (below) suggested that the people had the right to know about the stuxnet virus presumably before we infected the Iranian nuclear weapons program.”
This is a prime example of why no-one should trust or believe ANYTHING the US intelligence agencies say regarding foreign targets of US aggression. There is no Iran nuclear weapons program:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/23/world/la-fg-iran-intel-20120224
The same lies and misinformation from our so-called “intelligence” service sold us the war in Iraq. These agencies are not only whole-scale criminal and corrupt, but they are filled with compulsive liars.
Nice try, CraigSummers…
“……So it’s not that people should know about such plans in advance. Such plans should not exist in the first place……”
That’s certainly a valid opinion, but my guess is that if there was a poll taken of Americans on using a virus to disrupt the Iranian nuclear program, most would support that idea. In addition, most people in the world would likely oppose Iranian interference in Syria to prop up the Syrian murderer Assad. This applies in Syria to Hezbollah and Russia as well. I don’t suppose The Intercept” is going to hold those governments responsible for the murder in Syria.
Whether you want to admit it or not, the world is still dangerous requiring good intelligence. The latest act of aggression by Russia to occupy and annex the Crimea should be a wake up call to those who seem to believe that the US is the only country in the world that has an aggressive foreign policy. In addition, 911 was another reason to take Islamic terrorism much more seriously.
Between non state actors and state aggression like Pakistan in Afghanistan and Russia in Ukraine, there are plenty of reasons why the intelligence community needs to do their job unencumbered.
Thanks Jose.
>”“…….. (S//SI//REL) For a variety of reasons, our intelligence relationships are rarely disrupted by foreign political perturbations, international or domestic. First, we are helping our partners address critical intelligence shortfalls, just as they are assisting us……”
Intelligence cooperation is, in fact, very important – and this is the statement you should have emphasized.”
(S/SI//REL) “Morally Indefensible and Absolutely Necessary” … just make ’em an offer they can’t refuse eh, Mr. Summers?
*I would agree that international “Intelligence cooperation” is, in fact, very important
Intelligence cooperation is, in fact, very important
The article absolutely does not deny this. It merely discusses the dynamics of that cooperation, which can be summarized as
– the NSA gives the orders
– foreign intelligence agencies do as they are told
– foreign politicians are kept ignorant.
This foundation provides a strong base on which to build a framework of cooperation. Each party does what it is best at – the very definition of true teamwork.
I accidently put ‘foreign’ in front of ‘politicians’. This was not meant to impugn the fine work of US politicians who have remained steadfastly ignorant as well.
I believe that your will find that the Russians and particularly the Chinese have been far, far more successful in spying/stealing technology, from everyone else, than we have. The clandestine activities of the NSA (and it’s literal 25,000 civilian contractors) and it’s international affiliates, has gone completely rogue. Orwell would be proud of his forecasts.
Your critical thinking skills seem to have taken a dive of late, Craig, and it’s pretty evident that you struggle to try to make sense. Let’s take:
And who says that Fourth Amendment disclosures are the only valid public interest disclosures that a whistleblower can make? What Snowden confirmed here (it was pretty much already known) is that the US and Israel engaged in a covert act of aggression. You might view it as a “preventive” act of aggression, but that’s clearly what it was. It’s obviously in the public interest to know if a country is secretly engaging in behavior that could be viewed as an act of war by other countries, and hence putting world peace and stability at risk.
“It’s also clear that the disclosure of US intelligence documents also greatly damaged our capabilities in dealing with aggression by foreign powers like the Russians in the Ukraine (ignored by everyone at The Intercept except Omidyar).”
Well then, what’s their excuse for missing the invasion of Georgia by the Russians a few years ago, hm?
It’s disheartening to come across a Mr. Summers, so stuck in a mindset, contributing to the problems and avoiding the simple realization that solutions are needed. Then it’s just saddening to remember the tens of thousands who signed up and marched, sailed and flew off in the past fifty years, never to return and never knowing they would die for a lie.
Villy Sørensen wrote their perfect epitaph: Oh You Eternal Humans
“……..It’s disheartening to come across a Mr. Summers, so stuck in a mindset, contributing to the problems and avoiding the simple realization that solutions are needed…..”
First of all, I don’t contribute to the problem because I don’t work for the NSA or CIA. In addition, I don’t work for the government in any capacity. Second of all, you are right that I am stuck in a mind set. The mindset is that the world would be less peaceful if the US built a wall around our borders and dismantled our military and intelligence capabilities. I’m a firm believer in the concept of balance of power – and what happens when the balance is disrupted. Intelligence plays a big role in ensuring the balance is maintained, or that surprises (like in Ukraine and Pearl Harbor, 911) are limited. There have been some huge intelligence failures in the past, but it’s an inexact science so it will never be perfect. It’s no less important though.
Kee hee! I bet the Oval Office is wrecked from all the furniture throwing at these Snowden revelations (h/t GrimmGleanworld). I can almost hear the seething from here!
And on top of that, there’s a power-play happening in the Senate against the CIA.
We’re reaching the breaking point and it’s gonna be on helluva hat trick for the corporate media to spin this. Thanks to honest journalism, folks are slowly waking up.
I know a lot of people think Glenn should dump all of these documents at once but I knew it was genius from the get-go.
You can’t just bury this in a Friday news dump when you know MUCH more is coming (plus doled out in small portions let’s people digest the facts and get over their cog/dis.
We have some real scandals going on and this could really be historic. These are the ingredients of a genuine constitutional crisis and I welcome it, good or bad- the status quo blows.
First there was Assange.
Then there was Snowden.
Who will be the next Patriot to step forward?
If good, and honest, and decent folk; of good moral fiber and character in each of the governments alphabet agencies and other nefarious institutions would listen to their conscience and start stepping forward, we could clean house in government, and take our government back.
You failed to mention Manning.Manning is in prison, while the people who brought us war are free.You ask around and practically no one can name her, but every one thinks she got a fair sentence.
You failed to mention Manning.
Manning, William Binney and Thomas Drake. And John Kiriakou as well.
I’m sure there are others.
Clearly, there is no democratic accountability anywhere. There are no democracies in the world, just caricatures of such. This makes elections on any national level, anywhere completely meaningless. Manipulation, propaganda is the name of the game.
With all due respect, the United States of America was not built as a democracy. it was structured as a Representative Republic, based upon the rule of law, not the rule of men. Democracies are simply mob rule, which we have devolved into. The politicians have discovered that whatever special interest group they funnel money to, will vote their block of votes for that money. It is totally counter to what was meant to occur. It is, as you say, manipulation. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep discussing what is on the lunch menu.
One only need to listen to the current slate of politicians. Whether it be at a local, state, congressional or senatorial and even Presidential level, and you hear them all espousing “democracy this” and “democracy that”. It is not a democracy, and the sooner people wake up to that fact, the better.
The fate of the Republic hangs in the balance.
With all due respect, the United States of America was not built as a democracy.
No, it’s a democratic republic- one form of democracy.
Democracies are simply mob rule, which we have devolved into.
The term you’re lookin’ for is ‘anarchy’.
Apparently the code for italics isn’t ’emphasis’.
The 1st and 3rd lines are quotes and the 2nd and 4th are my response.
My kingdom for a decent comment section. I’ll wait.
I’ve been using “em“, with the appropriate brackets, and it’s worked.
I’m aware of that, but clearly the USofA is also not a Representative Republic, despite how it was originally structured, and, as GG wrote above, there is no democratic accountability.
“It’s time for Obama to take a side in the battle between the CIA and the Senate”
“He can start by demanding that a report on Bush-era interrogation methods be declassified ”
By Ryan Cooper | 6:16am ET
http://theweek.com/article/index/257939/its-time-for-obama-to-take-a-side-in-the-battle-between-the-cia-and-the-senate
Edward Snowden looms over Pulitzer Prizes
Cowardice comes to mind…..
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/edward-snowden-pulitzer-prize-washington-post-guardian-nsa-104608.html
From the article-
That right there should qualify Glenn, Ed, Barton and Laura a Pulitzer Prize; the Nobel Peace Price, Seal of Approval from Good Housekeeping, the Peabody, a blue ribbon at the County Fair, an Emmy, Grammy & Oscar and the Medal of Freedom.
Not to mention ever single gold star sticker in existence. ;-}
Well, they’ve racked up a Polk, so the pressure’s on. And if the Pulitzer wets their pants everybody’s going to see the stain.
Oh there’s plenty of ‘democrats’ over a Daily Kos & Democratic Underground rending their garments over this. I love it!
(thanks for the ‘italics’ code, porny:)
Oh there’s plenty of ‘democrats’ over a Daily Kos & Democratic Underground rending their garments over this.
Should’ve been naked years ago. Must be cloaking themselves in remnants of the Emperor’s Clothes. ;-}
I E-mailed a fellow DU poster and he’s started a thread with that Politico link you gave us.
The seethers are wiggling in hot ashes!
Ah yes, I love the smell of burnt worms in the morning :)
I wouldn’t mind giving Zelda a poke. Ooops….sorry meant Polk…!!
Cheney is a war criminal.
So is Bush and Blair, and lets hope they all appear at the Haig when this all comes out.
Then Obama qualifies too for doubling down on protecting them.
“We don’t torture” my ass.
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww138/Napewaste/Political/WeDontTorture.png
Is that not the same Dick Cheney whose company Halliburton profited hugely from the Iraq war, and also the same company who gained from orders for their hydraulic fracking technology ? Didn’t Dick’s company also profit massively from orders placed after President George W Bush excempted the Oil and Gas Industry from the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts, in the 2005 Energy Bill ? I am fairly sure I remember seeing something about this in the movie Gasland on You tube.
Well, you seem to have all the key phrases and buzzwords down pat.
Dick Cheney.
Halliburton,
Oil and Gas.
Fracking.
George W. Bush.
Are you aware that it now the year 2014?
When you start spouting Talking Points, your credibility goes right down the tubes.
If public officials had little knowledge of the extent of spying activities going on within their areas of responsibility, as now seems likely, then they now have a choice. Their reaction needs to be quick and crushingly punitive. The NSA, GCHQ, and sundry other national spy agencies have fundamentally undermined democratic accountability.
They are skirting with treason, and personally, I would term this the very definition of treason.
People need to be in jail for this, and for a long time. Forget about resignations, public apologies, and inquiries. We need heads on pikes to restore any semblance of trust in state structures, and to deter future offenders.
If politicians refuse to pursue these disgusting criminals, then they render themselves complicit after the fact by virtue of their inaction. It’s that simple.
As I read this piece, and thought about yesterday’s article the volume of data being “hoovered” reentered my consciousness. Is this info deemed to be useful in any way, or are these people merely enthused beyond normal common sense, to the point of major obsession, bordering on addiction? Boys and their toys! Are we little more than laboratory rats funding their latest obsession? As someone else mentioned recently, chop their budgets exponentially.
”damaging public debate”
We surely can’t have any of that, now can we.
Thanks GG
That phrase caught my eye, too. The very antithesis of a democracy.
I thought that the reference to other countries as “hoods” in the document was also revealing.
Yes it sure does seem that these reactions are questionable and I doubt they are genuine as that is the vibe I get from Merkel’s actions since the revelations. The French president is Obama’s BFF and I haven’t seen any fallout from other world leaders with the exception of a few countries in South America and Europe. The proof is in the pudding, Russia was the only nation to come to Edward Snowden aid and offer him asylum, this fact alone reassures me that a number of countries have been complicit in the worldwide surveillance. This maybe even a condition for certain regimes to be backed by the US. That wouldn’t be a stretch.
Sadly there is very little democratic accountability left these days, and it does not make any difference which political party you elect, as in reality its the Intelligence agencies, and the corporations that now have the power. This breakdown of democracy is described well in the following article :
The CIA, the Senate and the breakdown of American democracy.
13 March 2014 http://www.wsws.org
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/13/pers-m13.html
Mr. Greenwald, excellent article.
As I watched the reactions of our World “Partners”, two words come to mind in describing their reactions.
“Feigned indignation.”
Dear Zelda,
I recently read a SID bulletin that has really opened my eyes. It said our foreign partners “exponentially add to our foreign language capability”. I have been assigned to monitoring communications in France for several years, and haven’t been able to make much sense of what they are saying. I had always assumed it was a problem with the audio quality in that country. But now I am wondering… do they speak a foreign language?
Sincerely Trans ‘Later
I don’t believe they didn’t know, maybe not to which extend it goes, but rather that they are playing as if they didn’t know. They are protecting their political career.
I don’t believe that the politicians did not know either, and neither do I believe that the technology companies did not know. Microsoft, Google, Facebook,Intel You tube, Skype, Twitter, Yahoo etc have in my opinion, all betrayed us. As you say the politicians are protecting their careers, and the companies are protecting their profits. We are now in a police state, a dictatorship, which is controlled by the Intelligence, and law enforcement agencies, and their corporate sponsors. As this report by Glenn proves, this is not democratic accountability, and we are kidding ourselves if we believe that we live in a democracy.
In a general way they know their spy agencies cooperate with the Americans (i.e. follow instructions). And they also know this is in some way important to maintaining the status quo. In any case, politicians who try to cut the budgets or otherwise interfere with these agencies find themselves quickly embroiled in career ending scandals – so the rest learn to give these agencies leeway.
Human beings are capable of great incuriosity when they know it is in their best interests. So yes, they know it goes on and have been very careful not to ask any detailed questions. Does this give them the right to feign indignation? – sure, why not. The NSA doesn’t object – it knows politicians need a little lattitude in order to placate their public. But in the end, the status quo will prevail.
You may accuse them of being hypocrites but that is, after all, their job.
“In any case, politicians who try to cut the budgets or otherwise interfere with these agencies find themselves quickly embroiled in career ending scandals ….”
Likewise for anyone (say Elliot Spitzer, for example) who dares confront the banksters in any meaningful way.
One wonders if the tendency of European citizens to get out and actually protest the injustices of their govts will spurn actual reforms with real teeth, or whether deals will be struck between politicians and intelligence officials to “placate the masses” much as Obama tried to do with his “NSA speech several weeks back. As more revelations come out, it will become increasingly apparent how deceitful and condescending THAT speech turned out to be.
or whether deals will be struck between politicians and intelligence officials to “placate the masses”
I’m betting the intelligence folk have enough short hairs in their grubby paws to at least ensure the above will be the first route explored. The question that remains is whether or not it will succeed. I think that each subsequent revelation produced here and elsewhere makes that less likely, which is why they are doing their damndest to try and shut this reporting down (e.g. Mr. Alexander’s much-salivated-over New Rules).
In reality, the spooks have enough dirt on enough politicians, regardless of borders or colors of flags, to stave off meaningful reform until the revelations become so overwhelming to the populace that it triggers a massive uprising, ala OWS. Of course, the question then becomes (at least in the US) how many protesters is the USG willing to sacrifice in order to maintain control of the situation. As we all know, they were coordinating with banks and law enforcement agencies and laid out plans to murder leaders of OWS. How I wish I was making that up.
As we all know, they were coordinating with banks and law enforcement agencies and laid out plans to murder leaders of OWS.
For folks who are unaware of what USDDW is referring to:
http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/06/27/fbi-document-deleted-plots-to-kill-occupy-leaders-if-deemed-necessary/
Curious to reflect on how, indeed, the members of the Senate Committee on Intelligence were plenty well enough informed to know that Clapper was lying through his teeth when he denied on the public record that the NSA was collecting any kind of metadata on US citizens, yet were complicit in his lie to the extent none of his auditors, as present on that occasion, openly called him out on it. Thus, they were party to his lie to the US public, as tendered via all the cameras. So I guess here we have a rather different species of ignorance among politicians — viz., feigned ignorance. —- Thanks Greenwald for the continuing stream of enlightenment.
A good illustration of why “reform” is near impossible, if those in the deep-state are allowed to remain during/after the process. How do you oversee, things that cant be seen? The foundation of our system is broken, and only time will show a new one is needed – reform brings temporary improvements to the visible system but the submerged foundation is left to further deteriorate (it has completely insulated itself from constituents and their Reps. legislatively/legally), dragging the visible system with it. Time will soon show what will be required.
Love the word usage “witting”. Explains Clapper’s key false statement.
My recollection of Clapper’s testimony is that his entire answer to the initial question was “no”.
Period. Full stop. And he seemed to content to leave it at that.
The subsequent ‘not wittingly’ caveat came about only after the Senator’s followup question.
Outrage! The government offices e.g. Germany is sure NOT ‘in the dark’ about the their own spy agencies’ cooperation with National SA. They now well about the important contacts and use purposes of the information the own spy agencies collect in order of and provide to the National SA. Maybe not in every detail. But everything they don’t (want to) know they agree and already agreed to it at all. It is fine for them. They just want to let the mass think they are victims too. If they truly were, they didn’t act like they are. Still they support the US of A and there are no consequences to this attack. Even though their own constitution is damaged by it and make it an duty for them to fight such spy. But they don’t do – so they are partners and supporters, not victims. And they know well.
If elected officials have knowledge nor influence, how is this different from globalised military/industrial dictatorship?
elected officials have [neither] knowledge nor influence
This is what qualifies them to hold office, and gives them the all important attribute of plausible deniability. And if anything goes wrong, they make excellent scapegoats. After all the progress we have made, it is frustrating to see people still comparing this system to a military dictatorship.
It can’t have escaped your attention that in places like Egypt, military dictators eventually become the focus of popular discontent. They can be replaced by a new dictator, but only after revolution and popular upheaval which is extremely disruptive. In our more advanced system, people are permitted to achieve their desire to be fooled, by rallying behind the next politician who promises them hope and change.
So I assume your question ‘how is this different’ is merely rhetorical.
Dick ‘Tater
Indeed. GG has rung the bell again!!! When will the slumbering volk rise?
They are not going to.
49% of the populace simply does not care, and is oblivious. They are on the draw.
51% of the population participates on a limited basis.
Of that 51%,
25% of them are involved in the cultural arts.
They are glued to Dancing with the Stars.
Or watching hobo’s in camouflage build duck kazoo’s on A&E.
Of the remaining 25%,
10% are watching educational shows on the Biography Channel,
learning how to catch crocodiles in the Bayou.
Of the remaining 15%,
12% of them are watching Hoarders on the History Channel.
That only leaves three percent of US to pay attention to the world around us, and do the heavy lifting.
When the chips are down, all it will take is three percent.