The intelligence community’s top lawyer on Friday defended the Obama administration’s hostility toward revelations of national security secrets — and likened the act of publishing them to drunk driving.
Robert Litt, general counsel to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, used the drunk-driving analogy to excuse his inability to cite any specific harm to individuals by news stories based on leaks from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.
“We ban drunk driving in this country,” Litt asserted, arguing on a panel with four top news editors that not every crime has an identifiable victim.
Litt made the same argument earlier this week, at an event in Washington for Sunshine Week: “Not every drunk driver causes a fatal accident, but we ban drunk driving because it increases the risk of accidents. In the same way, we classify information because of the risk of harm, even if no harm actually can be shown in the end from any particular disclosure.”
But Litt’s analogy did not go over well with the other members of the panel on Friday. New Yorker editor David Remnick fired back, incredulously: “Is journalism drunk driving??”
Remnick said that by Litt’s logic, any reporting on leaked material would cause damage. “Your balance is we do nothing,” he said.
Litt, who has become the point person for the administration’s defense of its surveillance programs, was speaking at a journalistic symposium on Sources and Secrets held in the New York Times auditorium and sponsored by the George Polk Awards. Litt responded combatively to the event’s main theme: the importance of holding the government accountable.
“There ought to be an adversarial approach between the press and the government,” Litt said. “But,” he added with a touch of menace, “it’s a two-way process.”
Litt scoffed at the repeatedly expressed view during the conference that Obama administration prosecutions of journalistic sources — which has reached unprecedented levels — has chilled investigative reporting. “Somehow the press has managed to struggle on” he said, dismissively.
And he provoked another dramatic reaction from his fellow panelists when he said journalists should be more heedful of government officials when they warn of consequences to national security, calling for “a little more humility from the press.”
“The idea of humility when it comes to the press at this moment is, I think, obscene,” said Nation editor Katrina vanden Heuvel.
“I’m squirming over the desire that we have more humility,” said New York Times executive editor Jill Abramson, explaining that Times editors “agonize” over decisions to publish material government officials say could cause damage. She then went on to cite, as an example of journalistic responsibility, her paper’s highly controversial decision to suppress its expose of President Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program for more than a year — until after the 2004 election. That decision is considered by some to be a case study in how the Bush administration intimidated the press after 9/11.
Litt also asked the editors: “Who elected you?”
He said the intelligence community is subject to congressional accountability. “People may question whether that accountability is good enough, is properly structured. But we still have that accountability,” he said. “The media is not accountable to anything but the number of clicks on a website.”
Remnick responded: “Not all arbiters in society are elected. That too is part of the democratic society we live in.”
Earlier in the day, New York Times national security reporter James Risen, who has become a symbol of the Obama administration’s assault on national-security journalism, called on his fellow journalists to “stand up against the administration” and its attempt to control the press. Risen is fighting a federal order to testify in the trial of a former CIA official charged with leaking classified information to Risen about a botched plot against the Iranian government. He acknowledged that many journalists shy away from political action, but said the industry is “really confronting a change in the landscape.”
Government officials, he said, are “trying to create a path for accepted reporting — and that if you as a reporter go outside those parameters, you as a reporter will be punished, and those sources will be prosecuted.”
The prospect of Risen’s imprisonment, rather than giving up his source, hung heavy over the gathering. Risen said that government officials “want to narrow the field of national security reporting,” making it more and more difficult for reporters to write stories “outside the boundaries that the administration itself sets down.”
And what is outside those parameters?
“Any story that doesn’t make them look good,” he said.
“I think the problem for the future is if they’re successful in this kind of prosecutorial zeal, that they will be able to extend this from national security reporting to other kinds of reporting in Washington and beyond,” he added. The industry has been too hesitant to take on the administration, he continued. “Unless we recognize that, begin to stand up against the administration, I think it’s only going to get worse.”
One question came up over and over again: Is the Obama administration more anti-press than previous ones? New Yorker author Jane Mayer said national security reporting has never been harder, both because of the administration’s clampdown and because of the increasing omnipresence of electronic surveillance.
But, she said. “I think every administration is anti press…It’s what the Framers of the Constitution understood.”


Just to bring an example, as this NSA lawyer tried to but did not manage;
Think about your neighbor, who you asked to keep your house and plants safe while on holiday. Whilst you were away, the neighbor installed hidden cameras everywhere, wiretaps, used your clothes and so on… And you find out about it, because others have reacted to something, thus setting you on the lookout – where you find a huge range of surveillance mics, cameras and so on.
Now imagine that this neighbor gets annoyed at you for; 1) discovering the wiretapping, and 2) for criticizing him/her for it. Oh, and 3) because you told everyone (to warn others) so that he/she is outed as the criminals they are.
Would you ever trust that neighbor again? Would you not scream so to be heard by as many as possible, so that others might not be caught in such a web? Would you not prosecute a criminal, even if this fools actions were not used for foul play (yet)
Now change the “neighbor” with “the government” og “the NSA”, and explain why what they are doing is right, and what that foolish neighbor is wrong. Mind that the neighbor did this for the “greater good” and he did not abuse the takes/footage.
It’s a crime no matter who or what commits such a thing.
This is a test post. My posts are not showing and I do not believe it is this website doing that.
Great article. We must al kee foremost inmind when evr we deal with the “highest levels” of any govt: anything which makes them look as if they would do anything thepublic might not like will be attacked. We must not trust any set of millionaires with a free gym, free health care and protected speech (in the houses of congress). Their priveleges are simply too easily taken for granted, especially by them. the most genuine sense of entitlement resides in our”representatives”.
Journalists have nothing to worry about except being locked up in prison, unless of course they work for News Corp and don’t piss off any mining magnates.
”Not every drunk driver causes a fatal accident, but we ban drunk driving because it increases the risk of accidents. In the same way, we classify information because of the risk of harm, even if no harm actually can be shown in the end from any particular disclosure.”
This is lame comparison is a logical fallacy known as non-sequitar. There is no logical realtionship between the 2. Driving Drunk is a travel event in which one does domething to hinder their ability to perform the action. Any harm caused by exposure of government corruption was caused by the individuas commiting the corruption and not because of the person who then exposed that act.
Lint is a corrupt bureaucrat whose allegience is to a corrupt and disfunctional status quo, and not to the Constitution of the United States. The day he has to run for election, will be the day I’ll be willing to listen to the nonsense coming out of his pie hole.
Who elected YOU, Robert Litt?
” In the same way, we classify information because of the risk of harm, even if no harm actually can be shown in the end from any particular disclosure.” (quote from article above)…
The initial harm is caused – not risked – when classified information fails to meet the national security value test and/or falls under Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations. (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information ) instead. When that happens, as it happens, there is no merit in any argument therefore, for the protection of such classified information. In fact, national security interest is served precisely by a shift from the parties that committed the initial harm, and becomes vested instead in the exposure of such classified information.
I am tortured severely, 24/7, so much more so that I have been posting here, and the remote interrogation, mind control torture programs implementing these atrocities used very advanced electromagnetic and scalar weapons systems, are classified information. And there are thousands more Americans abused in this way as I type this. Some have died. Where is the national asset in the torture of innocent citizens and residents? What is the national security value in engaging in such activities? Yet they are classified…
An act of drunk driving in USA produces an estimated death per 10,000 incidents. (In a year, 15K/150M).
If talking to a US military recruiter had the same rate of causing death, it would take 2 billion such conversations per year to produce the death tolls of recent US wars.
What is the point of your comment?
I thought this article was about the fact that no one died because Snowden outed wholesale unconstitutional behavior within the NSA, so the reporting of the information obtained by Snowden by news agencies can hardly be compared to drunk driving laws.
“ ‘Somehow the press has managed to struggle on’ he said, dismissively.” Struggle is the word. If he had it his way, all investigative journalists would be lined up and shot. But that’s OK, right, because we have the MSM to keep us all hoodwinked and under control. Keep on Intercepting, Intercept!
“Is the Obama administration more anti-press than previous ones?” Maybe. Maybe not. But just wait until we have an administration that really IS anti-press. They’ll make the Obama crowd look like models of transparency and openness.
” But just wait until we have an administration that really IS anti-press.”
Yeah, well, it seems we need not wait any longer. Obama is worse than Nixon. Worst ever.
Obama is not only the worst president ever concerning transparency, I think he may take the crown for executive branch liar as well.
Who elected Robert Litt?
Who elected Litt? In fact, who elected any leaders in the intelligence community?
?
Let’s remind Mr Litt who pays his salary –WethePeople.
OK. What’s your plan for reminding him?
“Litt also asked the editors: “Who elected you?””
Wait, what? Litt isn’t elected and not a single person in the NSA is elected. Congressional accountability in the form of the various ‘yes’ committees isn’t elected by the voter. What is this fool speaking of?
Beyond that, as a practical matter, these spy agencies aren’t responsible to Congress in practice, just according to the letter of the law, the Constitution. Most of the time, they shut up, claiming national security, and even when they do talk they are often lying.
William Colby was fired because he listened to his general counsel’s advice that he was legally required to report to Congress what the CIA was really doing. George Bush, later the Butcher of Baghdad and perhaps the executive leader of the events of 9/11/2001, got the job because of this, according to Tim Weiner.
Elected officials are the criminals. Once elected, they do whatever they can to line their pockets and the billionaires whim they serve.
The federal government is an organized crime enterprise run by elected officials.
That is why we need a direct democracy. Eliminate representation.
Litt asks: “Who elected you?”
Answer: “One of the roles of the unelected citizenry is to hold accountable those elected.”
Bluetooth is very dangerous from a privacy perspective.
Bluetooth is also very short range PLUS many of the channels are over-ridden/blocked by WiFi and numerous other transmission in this unlicenced frequency spectrum.
It is extremely unlikely that the GCHQ or the NSA could, or would even try, to monitor it.
Privacy is determined by the hardware used.
This flags as a robo-post. It contains nothing substantive, has nothing whatever to do with the article it putatively responds to (could be added to almost any comment string here verbatim) and seems designed only to get the discussion deflected away from the article.
The NSA steals the chinese data and the Chinese steal the NSA data. Everybody is happy. No need for any kind of punishment. What a wonderful world. Ping Pong :-)
“He said the intelligence community is subject to congressional accountability. ‘People may question whether that accountability is good enough, is properly structured. But we still have that accountability,’ he said.” That’s a heaping dose of obtuse given that it’s the Litts of the system who prevent meaningful questioning of the accountability, not least when they routinely mislead Congress as well as the courts.
According to William Binney there is no oversight of the NSA. “There is none.” “…Can’t verify anything that NSA tells him [Judge Walton] ‘can’t verify anything any of those agencies tell him…NSA, FBI or any of them”
Kitt, can you tell us why Occupy wants to nourish Big Government with big funding?
Again, all the hallmarks of a robo-post. Has nothing to do with either the article published or even the comment it putatively responds to. It’s just a mindless generic boilerplate right wing talking point thrown out randomly into a comment string. It might be a human entering it, but there’s really no reason to believe it was. I do believe someone is machine trolling the site.
It’s the Koch brothers. Are we intellectual and clever and informed and educated.
Sheesh, I’m glad the other guy left his shift. He was writing crayon on bathroom stalls about how he hates leftists. Hey, congrats on yer raise in the NSA. Troll on.
Is journalism drunk driving?
Nah. More like parking in a handicapped zone without a placard.
The comment by Robert Litt, general counsel to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence makes me want to VOMIT. It demeans and insults the victims of drunk drivers. And drunk drivers have 4th amendment rights, which the general public does not when it comes to domestic spying.
On July 8, my daughter, Maegan Elizabeth Spindler was killed by a drunk driver in Pickstown, SD, along with Dr. Robert Klumb. Both were federal employees completing a 13 hour work day on the Missouri River for the US Fish & Wildlife Service and were based in Pierre. They were standing in a parking lot, 150 feet off of a highway and mowed down at highway speed.
The accused, Ronald Fischer of Lake Andes, SD is awaiting trial. His defense attorney has motioned to suppress the blood evidence.
In April 2013 the US Supreme Court McNeely v. Missouri ruling reversed 47 years of legal precedence establish in 1966 in the Schmerber v. California ruling, which held that a State may, over the suspect’s protest, have a physician extract blood from a person suspected of drunken driving without violating the suspect’s rights under the Fourth or Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
The McNeely ruling stated that a drunk driver that either refuses or is incapable of providing consent is entitled to a search warrant prior to having a blood sample drawn to establish blood alcohol content, unless “exigent circumstances” exist. The fact that BAC declines as time elapses is not considered an exigency by the court.
Consider the hypocrisy of the federal courts — they contend that drunk drivers, a clear and present danger to public safety, have 4th amendment rights. But the general public, without any cause or suspicion, doesn’t have these same rights when it comes to data harvesting and surveillance by the NSA and other agencies.
This is the world we live in… more innocents are killed by drink drivers EACH YEAR than were killed on 9/11. If victimhood can be used to justify the trillion dollar national security state, it is zealously and cynically used. If victimhood means tough DUI enforcement and impinges on the profits of a $500B “industry”, it is ignored.
Our website: http://sgsstat.com/sd_dui_reform.html
So sorry to read about your daughter.How very tragic. Litt’s comparison to drunk drivers is ignoble. Edgar Snowden has no deaths to his account but he has so tremedously embarassed the US.
Edward (not “Edgar”) Snowden didn’t embarrass the US. He shamed dishonest leaders who have been lying to the public and abusing their offices. He did credit to this country by risking his life comfort to tell the truth. What is embarrassing is that there are so many people who would rather side with our nascent Stasi intelligence agencies than defend bulwark principles of the Bill of Rights.
So, so sorry to read about the tragic death of your daughter and Dr. Klumb. “If victimhood can be used to justify the trillion dollar national security state, it is zealously and cynically used…” You said it. Litt is an insensate government bureaucrat, the standard today, starting with the psychopaths at the top. Psychopathy seems to be part of the job definition. Anything to justify the out of control national security fascist state, including reducing the real problem of, say, drunk driving to cartoon status, public health be damned.
Again, so sorry for the loss of your beautiful daughter and her colleague. Thank you for posting this and making us aware.
The comment by Robert Litt, general counsel to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence makes me want to VOMIT.
My daughter, Maegan Elizabeth Spindler was killed by a drunk driver in Pickstown, SD, along with Dr. Robert Klumb. Both were federal employees completing a 13 hour work day on the Missouri River for the US Fish & Wildlife Service and were based in Pierre. Standing in a parking lot, 150 feet off of a highway.
The accused, Ronald Fischer of Lake Andes, SD is awaiting trial. His defense attorney has motioned to suppress the blood evidence.
In April 2013 the US Supreme Court McNeely v. Missouri ruling reversed 47 years of legal precedence establish in 1966 in the Schmerber v. California ruling, which held that a State may, over the suspect’s protest, have a physician extract blood from a person suspected of drunken driving without violating the suspect’s rights under the Fourth or Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
The McNeely ruling stated that a drunk driver that either refuses or is incapable of providing consent is entitled to a search warrant prior to having a blood sample drawn to establish blood alcohol content, unless “exigent circumstances” exist. The fact that BAC declines as time elapses is not considered an exigency by the court.
Consider the hypocrisy of the federal courts — they contend that drunk drivers, a clear and present danger to public safety, have 4th amendment rights. But the general public, without any cause or suspicion, doesn’t have these same rights when it comes to data harvesting and surveillance by the NSA and other agencies.
This is the world we live in… more innocents are killed by drink drivers EACH YEAR than were killed on 9/11. If victimhood can be used to justify the national security state, it is used. If victimhood means tough DUI enforcement and impinges on the profits of a $500B “industry”, it is ignored.
Our website: http://sgsstat.com/sd_dui_reform.html
That scramble of jet setters sure took off fast. Sounds serious. Palantir is reportedly there after a quick mention on NBR last week, the financial link in the sivve system. Got millions of emails you can’t make headings or trails of? Get Palantir. They’ve double in value annually since inception in 2001. What could go wrong?
Guess who’s watching the Watchmen!
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-cohens-sac-taps-analytics-firm-palantir-to-monitor-employees-2014-19
Are these the Pinkertons who pulled back ten years of NewsUK’s email from deletion and got those Sun reporters and their sources arrested? I had the sickest feeling as that whole thing went down in UK/US cooperation with FCPA implications, but even Rupert can get scroogled. Did he think My Space was gonna win the face race for NSA’s first chair in the songbird chorus?
I think Mr. Litt may have stopped off at the local pub before he attended this meeting. He sounds like he is drunk with power.
The pub you refer to is his place of “work”.
I see talk about accountability.
I do not see that the US govt is accountable to anyone at all. Are they? At all?
Of course they’re accountable to someone: super-rich corporations and individuals like the Koch brothers.
But that would be… corporatism!
Yes the it’s the bad K-o-o-ch bros. And Faux and , short bus, spew, drivel, Glenn Bec…zzz…Molly, Austin, Joe Bob Briggs, Noam, John Hightowe…SXSW, Occupy, 99%, 1%, capitalism, end racism….
you know,…it’s “the Koch brothers” who are trying to downsize hyper-State–not tax inflate its Brazil-esque surveillance- and police-state like the progressive left wants.
it’s “the Koch brothers” who assisted in funding the Tea Party candidacies of the likes of Ted Cruz’s. You know, Ted Cruz? One of only 15 U.S. Senators to vote No on every NDAA that’s been presented to the floor of Congress.
Where were your congressmen on that, William?
Replacing State power with Corporate power would actually end up far, far worse for the average citizen.
The powers of the State with no counterbalances are immense and disastrous.
The powers of Capital with no counterbalance would be apocalyptic. It would be neo-Feudalism.
But historically collectivism is feudalism, MDZX. The lords (transpose “the Kim family” or “central planning” in latter day) were the money and the law.
Government is but a giant corporation, with its own officers and board of directors, and receivables.
@ Squaresville — huh, yeah, but re: the Government, THE PEOPLE are supposed to be the Board of Directors. The Government is ostensibly accountable to the people, corporations are accountable to the Board and shareholders and only exist to create profit. That’s a pretty big difference. Which is why Fascism is so dangerous. Unfettered corporatism cannot be allowed. Followers of Ayn Rand aside, people know this…..
Perhaps, as balance, other ‘super-rich corporations’ should also be mentioned: big pharma. big insurance. big agribusiness, big oil, the military-industrial-complex, etc.
oh the left’s favorite, George Soros, is turning Ukraine into a piñata for absorption into the EU.
…er, Ben?
Wrong, mumbnuts. A news organization has to worry about its integrity and credibility. The government doesn’t have that concern since it has neither.
Well said Dave!
My observation is that most major news organizations, at least in USA, are not worried about their integrity and credibility, or even the appearance of such. How many of them contributed to the deaths of millions of people, by repeating obvious lies to recruit the public into supporting the wars? Perhaps I should rephrase the question: how many should not?
It is the lies of the US government, repeated by most in the mainstream media, that have greatly harmed the security of the people of USA, both in the last few decades with the Islamic world, and for more with the Cold War.
“Agonizing” over a decision is usually a euphemism for making a decision that helps kill a person, or a lot of them.
http://republicbroadcasting.org/
To the staff of The Intercept and those commentators actively involved in disseminating truthful information for the overall benefit of humanity and Planet Earth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJUu-xiJPx8&list=PLD26C5899B8DC5B09 (Solfeggio Harmonics – 396 HZ – Liberation From Fear
Please listen. It doesn’t take long.
Thanks Lyra, I needed that.
So who is the drunkard?
Just more PR & propaganda, censorship, & coverup by the Government that will continue its smear campaign against Mr. Snowden by using the following tactics as quoted by Joseph Goebbels during the 1930’s & 1940’s.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitallyimportant for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent,for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” AND
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
The US. & UK. Governments no longer have any credibility ! They make statements but never provide proof . Trust us, I think NOT ! Don’t trust but verify, & demand evidence of proof ! Until they do so, it’s just more lies, excuses, rationalizations, & justifications .
REMEMBER: POLITICIANS, BUREAUCRATS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE
CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON.
He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
Benjamin Franklin
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions.
James Madison
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry
“We the People are the rightful masters of BOTH Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution”
Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln
As a reminder Hermann Goering said at the Nuremberg Trials .
“The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
NSA General Keith Alexander told lawmakers “that even if approved, the measure would not necessarily end warrant-less collection depending on judicial interpretation.”
Time to start removing the corporate Congress from office & defunding the NSA to force them to comply with the law & impose jail time for non compliance under USC Title 18 Sec. 241 & 242
Stop with the trying to put the lipstick on a pig approach !
Disclaimer: Be advised it is possible, that this communication is being monitored by the National Security Agency or GCHQ. I neither condone or support any such policy, by any Government authority that does not comply, as stipulated by the 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Perhaps someone should point out that “Somehow the government has managed to struggle on” as well.
Do any of the people on the panel remember the climate when Daniel Schorr, live on air, encountered his own name on the Nixon White House Enemies list that he was reading for the first time? (Now there was something to be afraid of. Nixon harbored grudges and went outside the courts to settle them.) Do any of the people on the panel remember that Daniel Schorr had a scoop about illegal CIA activity and had to give it away to a rival organization because his own organization refused to run it? A worse climate today than ever before? “snorts”
This may complicate Obama’s effort to induce China to join in “isolating” Russia:
Targeting Huawei:
NSA Spied on Chinese Government and Networking Firm
Especially since Russia and China just agreed to a multi-billion dollar gas deal.
http://rt.com/business/china-russia-gas-deals-467/
Come to think of it, they likely share some concerns about ™Terrorism emanating from Central Asia and the US presence there.
And, as a sidebar, this follow-up to the Occupy Oakland 2011 unpleasantness: OPD settles with injured protestor Scott Olsen.
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Occupy-protester-wounded-by-Oakland-police-gets-5337743.php
This story doesn’t make them look good either.
Can anyone tell me where I can find a video of the entire show? I got in late, but I did see the Litt segment.If you just keep saying the same things over and over again, like Litt, you will get to keep your job.Most people don’t notice or care.
Sarah Harrison on “Paying the Price”, journalism and the UK Terrorism Act.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/exile-sarah-harrison-paying-price-helping
I agree journalism is being surpressed and think we compensate by speculating. Not helpful. We better serve ourselves by reviewing the tactics of successful and long enduring movements as this is most obviously a people’s war for the preservation of our natural, not American, NATURAL rights.
Otherwise, the internet is a witch operated by a demon to be silenced. Crush all presses! This is global industrial imperialism resisting popular pluralism which is just humanity without a white mask. Me and my shadow can handle the truth but these clowns can’t take the paint off.
The NSA is the internet, and the internet is NSA. Surprise! It’s the Space Invaders. Murdoch thought he was buying a gold mine! Maybe just molybdenum? That’s a funny mineral, molybdenum. Makes you feel all flubby dubby justr saying so. Hubby’s up. Yahoo!
If anything that could possibly have consequences is akin to drunk driving, then you are DUI for having voted for this administration.
Who was it that said that they will write laws to enforce their corruption? Who was it that said it is the duty of every citizen to disobey unjust laws?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/22/obama-facebook-google-nsa-concers-zuckerberg-schmidt
Honey badger collects odd buttons (and BlackBerry emails) and pockets them until she finds a mate.
DING, DING, DING.
PRE-POSITIONING!
Palantir was mentioned for no good fracking reason on the PBS show Nightly Business Report which I shared with you guys a week ago (but you weren’t lstening?) as it sounded RICH with data digestives.
Palanitr sort email for Morgans Chase and Stanley. The financial side of the flipping mess. They are among the Six who are bundling our sticks before their lawless data king.
Another apt analogy:
Anyone who has information about the commission of a crime, and who fails or refuses to report said crime, can be prosecuted for either aiding or abetting or obstructing justice.
Most if not all of the Snowden leaks that have been revealed thus far have revealed rampant criminality in the government. It is one’s duty to report these crimes.
The act of classifying illegal activity to prevent its revelation to the public is NOT the purpose of classification.
Intelligence must perpetually fabricate justifications for their existence and expansion, especially domestically. Without everyone fearing poorly defined enemies – any form of Big Brother is almost universally asked to “go away.” Once it’s suspected any attacks by supposed enemies were also fabricated or too small and desperate for the intentional overreach implemented, it’s only logical any public exposure creating discussion or awareness – now becomes the enemy.
“The Big Chill” is greatly “War Party” political messaging control pretending it’s national security, and a further attempt at hiding the merry-go-round of lobbying / industry funding corruption destroying OUR country — from within.
Compelling stuff, Mr. Dan, and thank you.
.
“The Big Chill” is greatly “War Party” political messaging control pretending it’s national security, and a further attempt at hiding the merry-go-round of lobbying / industry funding corruption destroying OUR country — from within.
Yup.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php
OK, now this is back on, I think we should all Protest our governments ‘excesses at Hambach!
We must engage our best MLK, Wirth and Henry in a folkhearted festival for those who believe in freedom without blasts of hot air at Burning Man. More your intelligentcia meets too much good wine! Three days. Let’s PARTY! I haven’t even got an up to date passport, but I’m game!
Don’t shoot, GCHQ! I can do 9 hours AND Bob’s your Uncle. OMG, my Uncle Bob was quite the road trip. You sit with HIM for that long and you win.
Well, well, how the worms do turn on one another.
NSA’s silk says the hoodie merchants knew all about the RIPA off. I say they’ve known since NewsUK nearly sunk this whole slave shipping trade back in 2006. Pick up your sticks and go home, GCHQ. You are the Queen of the May. Tell Teresa if I go Europe, it won’t be by way of gulag!
Hell-O Ireland! I hear what happens here, stay here. Now let’s talk taxes. I have to drink HOW much to get off?
To use the same analogy against Robert Litt, more people die every year as a result of drunk driving than the total number of people that died on 9/11/01. One doesn’t need to be a statistician to know that the word “terrorism” is only used to propagate fear.
http://www.madd.org/blog/2013/november/2012-drunk-driving-fatalities.html
Speaking of the concept of “Terror”…….
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/09/war-on-terror-is-fraud.html
“…….To use the same analogy against Robert Litt, more people die every year as a result of drunk driving than the total number of people that died on 9/11/01. …..”
Good point. About 40,000 people died on the nation’s highways – in 1941. Only about 2400 were killed by the Japanese.
That one statement reveals all. “Adversarial” is actually the exact opposite of what the government’s approach to the press should be. When Obama promised “the most transparent administration ever”, it was an acknowledgement that the appropriate posture of the government towards the press is cooperative. The government should help the press watch the government; the government should help the press report the truth about what it is doing and why. That’s the only possible meaning of “government transparency”. (The government acting as its own news agency on its own websites doesn’t cut it.)
Though, perhaps the word “adversarial” in “adversarial press” is too provocative. By no definition is the press an enemy or opponent of the government. “Watchdog press” – that’s a good one. “Sceptical press” – no ring, unfortunately. Nothing wrong with “adversarial” if that’s how it’s understood, but perhaps the word invites misunderstanding. (And this is not to say that journalism oversteps its bounds when it actively opposes the government, just that it’s not essential, not part of the definition.)
Adversarial to what?
An Executive Branch which has consistently failed to include the Legislative Branch in formulating law by imperial decree?
Thank whatever supreme being you worship for an “Adversarial” Press.
Here is some more food for thought:
http://www.alt-market.com/articles/2053-new-executive-order-obama-has-just-given-himself-the-authority-to-seize-your-assets
Yet one more imperial decree.
Heil Hitler!
“…….“Any story that doesn’t make them look good,” he said……”
I think there is some truth to that, but that’s an extreme simplification of a complex problem. Even Mr. Greenwald has admitted the need for national security i.e. secrecy by the government. On the other side of the coin, journalists may release information for political reasons – and that certainly falls under the banner of “adversarial journalism”. For example, one journalist might release information which could harm the construction of the Canadian pipeline, while another may choose not to because he supports the project. Journalists are politically motivated just like most people only they are in a position to act on their political leanings.
A good example was the publication of the cooperation of the US and Israel on the stuxnet virus. While the NSA debate has been framed as an assault on privacy, the release of this information had nothing to do with privacy. It simply was released for political reasons. Whoever made that decision was fundamentally politically motivated since there was no issue of privacy or the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. Despite constantly hiding behind the banner of “journalist”, the potential for abuse is applicable to journalists as well.
The motive of the journalist is not important – the story either rises or falls on its own merits. The only criterion is whether the story is based on true facts. The truth may help advance one political agenda and harm another. But this is not easily predictable in advance – the publication of one truth may lead to the revelation of another truth which changes the debate. So journalists should generally ‘err’ on the side of publishing the truth. This was the thinking behind the First Amendment and it still retains relevance even today.
“…….The motive of the journalist is not important ……”
You are an idealist, and in an ideal world, you might be right – but you are simply ignoring the point of my post in favor of the ideal world you are dreaming about. Unfortunately, this is not an ideal world so you have to look at what might happen in the real world.
Thanks.
Every journalist has a political agenda. But once a story is published, any other person is free to put their own political spin on it. That is called a political debate, and it would take place in the kind of idealistic imaginary world where democracy prevails.
Don’t you mean to say, “where liberty prevails”?
“…….Every journalist has a political agenda. But once a story is published, any other person is free to put their own political spin on it…..”
Agreed – and in the case of national security, it doesn’t matter whether they speak English or not.
You don’t know that. There’s a public interest in knowing that a government is secretly engaging in war, like the secret war in Laos or, more recently, Yemen.
But even if it were entirely political, that’s still part of “freedom of the press.” An example is that when there’s unrest in a country (think Venezuela or Ukraine), there can be media outlets that fan the flames for entirely political reasons, but if the government attempts to shut down those media outlets, that’s clearly still an attack on freedom of the press.
Recently there was a lot of coverage of Russia shutting down 3 political blogs because of “incitement to illegal activity and participation in mass activities conducted in violation of the established order.” Is that a sensible rationale for media regulation in your view?
“……..You don’t know that. There’s a public interest in knowing that a government is secretly engaging in war, like the secret war in Laos or, more recently, Yemen……”
The question for you Jose is whether you believe that the NSA and CIA should exist at all (necessary?) – or that the government has any right to keep any secret from the people in the area of national security? Do you think that every time the CIA decides to hack into a system whether it is in the Chinese or Russian governments (or some other God awful anti democratic government) that we should hold a public referendum? Regardless, the Israel-US joint venture to delay the Iranian nuclear program was stolen and exposed for political reasons. Who knows what other national security issues were stolen which had absolutely nothing to do with privacy, but which put national security at risk. There was absolutely no basis for releasing this information other than to undermine US -Israel relations which is the heart and soul of far left wing political activists – like Greenwald, for example.
Just like MonteCarlo above, there is the ideal world and the “real” world – like the actions by the Russians to annex a portion of a sovereign state. There are balances of power in the world. Mutually Assured Destruction was just one of them. When balances are upset, destabilization occurs and wars can result. Intelligence (by both sides) tends to keep the balance in check. We want to know what the Chinese and Russians are developing just as they want to know what we are doing. That’s been the game forever. There is a purpose beyond just gamesmanship.
As far as your questions, you make good points. Yes, media outlets can fan the flames politically by disagreeing with the government – and they should. It goes back to what MonteCarlo mentioned – the truth. The truth is the most important weapon against government abuse. The attempt to portray the Ukrainian protests as CIA- or Nazi-inspired or that the Russians in Ukraine were in any danger are classic examples of government lies to enable an action. And – yes – I understand that our government is fully capable of the same lies.
“…….but if the government attempts to shut down those media outlets, that’s clearly still an attack on freedom of the press……”
I agree 100%. Journalism is critical to democracy, but the debate is over when the government oversteps their bounds in the name of national security (Fourth Amendment) versus when “journalists” overstep their bounds. It’s not a simple debate (except on this site).
Thanks for your response
“Any story that doesn’t make them look good,”
This is a statement consistent with Executive Branch overreach of supreme law….certainly in line with clear dictatorship.
The Constitution of the United States is quite clear:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Amendment I
The Executive Branch does not; by any acts such as the Patriot Act or the NDAA, have the right to overthrow the supreme law of the land when doing so causes harm or violation of individual rights granted UP of the Supreme Law equal to The Constitution of the United States of America.
There is no complex problem to debate.
You might want to read this, Glenn
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/21/chuck-schumer-glenn-greenwald_n_5008524.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
Welcome to the big leagues, Glenn.
“It’s probably not enough protections to (cover) him, but it’s better than current law,” Schumer said,”
Better than the current law. You mean the one that says “CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or ABRIGING the freedom of speech, or of the press, …”(snip)? hmmm, it appears Schumer wants to break the law.
Exactly. I’d like to read Glenn’s take on this New&Improved!™ law.
A common mistake:
If national security reporting is being unconstitutionally impaired, is it not enough to say that this is absolutely (legally) unacceptable? Is it useful to go any further than that?
If one believes that A is absolutely unacceptable, it does not bolster the case against A to argue that A can lead to B and C. It weakens the argument against A because it suggests that A might be acceptable if B and C could be avoided.
“I think the problem for the future is that if the government is allowed to spy on Muslims, the practice may spread to other marginalized groups, including political activists engaged in lawful dissent.” This argument weakens the objection to spying on Muslims. Muslims will rightfully consider this argument insulting.
Mr. Litt, funny thing, did you know that Hitler was also elected and that Prescott Bush (Pappy’s daddy) and Averell Harriman helped resuscitate his financially failing Nazi party?
> “…Prescott Bush (Pappy’s daddy) and Averell Harriman….”
The same socialists and Democrats.
Gotsta read the McCormack-Dickstein Committee Hearing transcripts on their investigation into fascism in America in 1934.
Rep. Dickstein was grapeshot with antisemitic hostility in Congress ginned up under the guise of commie hating by those who resented government snooping into fascists’ lairs like the Red Door Spa in Scottsdale…home turf. One McFadden even used the Congressinal frank to mail hateful ideas such as “while the farmer has useless paper the Jew has all the gold.” Never fail to use a depression to it’s best advantage!
To save the fasci inquiry, Dickstein resigned the committee chair to McCormack, who turned around and co-chaired it with Dickstein to show the nation what fascists were like and how to defeat them. We CAN get along as soon as we can focus on the enemy, which is our blindness to divisive fascism.
FDR put down the fascist attempts to inflame America in a commie hysteria more than once. It’s like Russia poking folks to start a fake fight so they can declare an emergency state. Coup 101.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/10/27/20101027factcheck-brewer1027.html
Clip and eat paste, Litt. BTW, Mary Karr wants her pun back.
Can’t arrest a legislator while they’re driving in drunk session!! If you got ’em, smoke ’em Mark!
The Obama Administration has consistently proven that when it comes to controlling the narrative, the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments do not apply either to protect whistleblowers or to hold the government accountable for wrongdoing.
That is shocking enough. But Litt’s comments that openly manifest such disdain for press freedoms further reveals the extent to which Obama’s words are removed from his actions. He insults our intelligence every time he opens his mouth.
Just so you know I’m fracking with your heads, GCHQ, intermittent admission to the ball will not increase my attendance. I grow my word gardens as they are constantly trimmed. You are just a lucky gardener. I can grow hay all fracking day, lightweights. I lived with a fascist. She was raised by them. I know the mind screw so frack you, two, GCHQ. Tabu fascism. Why do we ignore it? American Liberty League, the astroturfed Tea Party of 1934. Sacre Blue! They built that shitemobile!
The CIA has always been in the pocket of Wall Street gangsters. They have consistently allied this country with outright fascist thugs. The cold war which they are salivating to reignite (dangerously leading to WWIII by miscalculation in the midst of financial breakdown and brutal police state austerity regimes) was the cat’s-paw to bring the rubes on board in the name of jingoism. Look at how Allen Dulles’ gang after WWII nurtured the literally fascist thugs in Ukraine. Read this report: Hitler’s Shadow, Nazi war criminals, US intelligence and the cold war, particularly chapter 5 which deals with Ukraine. http://www.archives.gov/iwg/reports/hitlers-shadow.pdf
We ‘Taters are generally humble, although some of us do aspire to make a fine vodka or shepherd’s pie. Most journalists are humble too. They faithfully transcribe what they are told by their government handlers, I mean, sources. So Litt should have been clearer that only an arrogant few insist on telling the truth. He is smearing an entire profession – but they are demonstrably one of the humblest, most loyal and subservient groups of people in existence. And they deserve proper credit for it.
CONGRESSIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY? WHAT ACCOUNTABILITY? THESE REPS DON”T KNOW JACK!
“McCormack: Do you know Jack?
MacGuire: I don’t know…Jack.”
Now THAT’S an Inquiry Committee! McCormack-Dickstein Hearing transcript investigating fascism in the US in 1934. Sacre Bleu! MacGuire probably didn’t call Morgan by his Christian name. You know, MacGuire, the guy who sent you on a tour of Europe to kick some tires on the latest fasci models and bring home the winning style. French! Ever heard of the Wall Street Coup Plot? What they did to France, they tried to do to US! TABU! Sacre Bleu.
At least MacGuire could say he earned a WWI silver plate in his head while his masters were born with their service provided.
It’s the Plutoids, again, Dr. Who.
True to its roots, the progressive left is heavily restricting the free flow of information in comments over at Salon.com by rolling back posts that contain controversial phrases on, e.g., vaccine or other related topics; and its monitors are lately deleting rafts of clean opposing views to its editorial content.
The observant reader will also note that it is leftist sites such as it which are receptive to, and attractive to, corporate establishment sponsorship.
Hello. I must be going. I’d love to stay but as I say I must be going. Not welcome here, too shabby. No sabe me, Tonto. That’s OK, I know some poor sap has to scan it!! Hay, Ha, good times, GCHQ.
I consume meaningless crap and give it Wirth it deserves. Floaters ask who are the brain police. I bet those turds are tagged by 16.
Oopps, promised ONLY to use my REAL nom de plum and email address. So, that slipped through, Milgrams. However, if you aren’t suppressing my signature comments, then who is? Cox in the box or google through the fusion glass? My hubby’s uncle invented that shite. You’re welcome.
“I’m just try’n to get a message to yo-ou. Hold on, hold on!”
Is COX the fox in the box or is google the fracking cocblocker?
Did Mod fall asleep at the dashboard? I know. time for chocolate. Open a window and stick your head out. It brings you out of the torpor tunnel. All that gaslighting had to backfire eventually. No bad feeling! Experiment over?
Wild Weasel all up in a question until she gets a fracking answer, boys. Honey badger is bad ass.
WHO ARE THE BRAIN POLICE, Milgrams?
OK, now ask yourself what nonsense says to you because that’s YOU, not nonsense.
Seriously? You don’t get my comments under my true creds? Or the Mod fell asleep at the dashboard, right? Pull ’em over. “Sobriety Check Point.” Mind if we look in that pocket?
Really sad today about the General getting his way with all of us because of unlawful command influence, BUT wouldn’t same apply to Snowden considering the persons of considerable weight who have convicted and sentenced him publicly in uniform and from their seats in Congress?
If we are gonna let a serial sex abuser of his own troops get off, we most certainly can let Snowpee off. He just told on the institutional perverts. The general is ONE OF THEM.
Abuse of power! I’m getting Kreimhild and Brunhild and we are gonna tear those iceholes a new windpipe. Only problem is, they won’t stop until EVERYONE pays up.
How rich. This speech at the Hambach Festival in 1832 blew the roof off the castle. Ladies! Keep you shirts on!! Wow, did those necklines plummet with the cry for Liberty!
http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=238
This man, Wirth, is the Patrick Henry, no, the MLK of Germany. He took on autocratic families and demanded Civil Rights for all German humanity. Seems those manipulative and powerful FAMILIES are still the Bane of our existence. Save us, Dr. Bat!
Do a Prism three step on the board members of these corporate collaborators, I’m sure you’ll find a tiny empire that is NEITHER Holy OR Roman.
OK, I sent you a comment using my husband’s email and real name, and if that’s blocked then my ISP is doing the dirty work?
Cox, is GCHQ in your box? They’re in everyone else’s!!
Morning Milgrams, It’s hubby’s BD. Did I tell you he made John Wayne’s GGdaughter pee her pants doing the old man? “Well, Pilgrims, when do we kill these turkeys? Cooky’s getting jumpy.”
>“There ought to be an adversarial approach between the press and the government,” Litt said. “But,” he added with a touch of menace, ”it’s a two-way process.””
There ought to be a *free press. .. and the government, last I checked, is still constitutionally barred from infringing upon it.
*a ‘free press’, imo, has a broader scope and mandate than an ‘adversarial’ press … and there is no mandate for an ‘adversarial’ government that I know of?
That’s the ‘agreement’ all Americans have agreed to live by for well-over 200 years now …
My governor was pulled over driving drunk while a senator, but as a member of an active legislature, the police could not take her into custody. Separation of powers, folks. That’s the LAW!
So, is Mark Udall drunk, Litt? Tough Shite!! We need some Gravel voiced legislator to shut this Litt guy down.
Robert Litt, Mary Karr would like her pun back, icehole.
The executive cannot do crap about legislators’ drunk driving! My governor got pulled over drunk while a member of an active legislature, and they didn’t arrest her, just had someone drive her drunk arse HOME!!
THAT’s a separation of powers atrocity that firmly demonstrates TOUGH SHITE, OBAMA!!
BAR’s OPEN!!
Who thinks Wild Weasel will open a file Brooks sent? Brooks and I don’t file shite! OK, she has attorneys store hers. Right, Merck? Can you hear me now, google/GCHQ? FRACK YOU!
Anyone care to explain the waterfall? Iceflow back up? Was that you, Milgrams or was that COX? google? Are our internet cables just the Devil’s Tales?!
I’ve been pounding at the door of Liberty for weeks now. Has anyone figured out who stole my KEYS?
OMG, that was all the rage with that printing press excess. Letters from the Devil. Carroll is such a riff off.
GCHQ, you know what you do is pleasing me endlessly, Ahhhhhhhh.
She Devil to Surelocks. Security failure.
We ought to know by now that it’s never a matter of national security. It’s always Obama security, Bush security, Clinton security, and so on. They don’t want us to know how awful they really are. Nixon couldn’t get away with it, but since then the others have had more success.
(‘caps’ = Italics/Emphasis not (in reality totally silent) ‘Shouting’)
Okay..I realize there’s this “Rule” that states “Whomever Is FIRST To Call The OTHER Side ‘Nazis’ LOSES”..but people MUST begin to realize we’re dealing with FASCISM here.
REAL….ACTUAL………..FASCISTS!
Litt…is a FASCIST!
Period.
And the “Questions” MUST begin to address this.
When I was younger..I found myself “Debating” a lot of Religious types..I had just then come to accept and realize the truth about “Organized Religions” and there INHERENT Authoritarianism as “Top Down Hierarchies” where often ONE individual is given “Total Power” in the name of “God” etc..
But it was not until I began asking such folks questions such as the following…that I began to see REAL (and chilling) Answers:
“So..Okay..IF you COULD..if you had the POWER..you ‘Wouldn’t’ BAN all; Gay Marriages? Certain Books? Certain Speech? DEBATE About Your Particular Faith?”
MORE often than not..such people will GLADLY..and IMMEDIATELY answer in the Affirmative.
“Oh Yeah..sure..if I COULD..I would BAN…….xyz”.
So called “Evangelicals” were and remain amongst the worst..literal….LITERAL…Avowed..”Up Front” BOOK BURNERS!
So it is TIME..we began asking The Security/Police State BUREAUCRATS and their “Corporate Partners” to Go On Record with similar questions.
Sure..these SCUM are way Slicker than there Religious Counterparts..but they are FASCISTS..and look..look…..LOOK..at the answers the “Governments” mouthpiece offered…he ADMITS it…to a panel of Journalists…he…ADMITS IT! Barely “Concealing” his PURE…RABID…SAVAGE…STAGGERING and UNEQUIVOCAL CONTEMPT for Rule Of Government BY THE GOVERNED.
He is a FASCIST!
I do not care what the “Tisk-Tisk” types say or their “Social Political Rules About Calling A Fascist A Fascist”……the NSA…the CIA…much (say 85%) of the FBI (Barret Brown anyone?) DHS..they are now “Testing For” the most Psychotically Vicious And Anti “Rights” Mindsets they can find..people not only..not…”Merely”…”Willing” to “FOLLOW ORDERS”…but those who see the entire social political landscape much in the same way as the most Angry and Infuriated “Road Rage Driver” sees the world..with TOTAL contempt for ANYONE else and the Complete “Belief” that “They Are Right” despite a literal “Totality Of Irrefutable Evidence To The Contrary”.
They see this as “Personal”..as opposed to…ooh..I dunno…CONSTITUTIONAL.
Another such example can be seen in the recent Rolling Stone “Interview” with Maggot Billionaire Hypocrite and “Friendly Fascism” Advocate Bill Gates.
Rolling Stone asks him the standard “Limited” question about Snowden and “Criminality” and He of COURSE replies that Snowden is a “Criminal” because ‘…gall….he could have just gone through proper channels and gall..we can just y’know…gall…have a DEBATE about these issues and gall..there’s a system in place here….gall..’.
Rolling Stone OF COURSE…..REFUSES to follow up with the OVERTLY OBVIOUS questions:
“But if Clapper ET AL are simply going to LIE when ‘Asked’ and the Entire NSA System is ALREADY VIOLATING EVERY TENET Of the CONSTITUTION…Then Doesn’t That Pose A Little PROBLEM To The ‘Lets GO Through Proper Channels/Debate’ Position?”.
But they Did Not.
And Excepting THIS SITE and THESE JOURNALISTS..this basic…Overtly Obvious “Pattern” of “Debate” is being Completely Ignored.
Because again…the people “Responding” are……….FASCISTS!
They may never Admit it…but ask them the REAL Questions with REAL REPLIES..like again for example “But if The Government Is REPEATEDLY Caught Lying…THEN WHAT?” etc…and it becomes CLEAR REAL QUICK!
Its time!
I know…again…I know..”We’re Not ‘Sposed To Do That, It Weakens Us Politically” etc…but WHEN do we Finally begin to address the Irrefutable Reality of what we’re dealing with…these people are no longer hiding their TOTAL Commitment to their “Cause” of a Police Security State…they’ve ALREADY “Transitioned” from even MENTIONING the FACT that there ALREADY ARE “RULES”….its called “The United States Constitution” and they are now DAILY Pretending that this is a “DEBATE”…Its NOT! Its Only a “Debate” if one FIRST “Decides” on a personal level that there can “BE” a “Debate” about the Fourth Amendment (for example)..and that is not only a “Slippery Slope” but when its “The Federal Government” and their “Corporate Partners”…..Then…at that moment…We’re….Dealing….With….FASCISM!
Please…its time…we must “Decide” ourselves and begin calling THEM when THEY ARE…they want to call the TRUTH “A Crime”? Then its time to call those who would CALL Truth a “Crime”………. FASCISTS, LIARS AND CRIMINALS!
ASK them “So Should Reporting On Government LIES and Violations Of The Constitution Be A CRIME?” Don’t beat around the bush…be DIRECT…don’t “Hint”…be..Direct. We’re dealing with FANATICS!
It’s speaking truth to power!
Check out what Soucy had to say about “French Fascism: The Second Wave.” Who claimed the sobriquet “Corporatism” FIRST? Why, the trend setters in 1935! Sacre Bleu! No one expected the Croix de Feu!
Please tell this soul about Soucy and the French Second Wave. OMG, I once was a fasci hysteric. Then I saw it’s just autocracy in a oligarcy’s lap until it gets a good cat’s claw in their arses. Watch the chairs tumble. Bang, bang. Better send in Black Tom. It’s gonna be OK, it’s just our typical resident EVIL.
Not a book on film, no no. But Q might have mined Soucy for the plot to Bastards. Try November 1935 backward and upside down. Way to hang the Croix de Feu, Q!!
Uniformed Croix de Feu Corporatists march OUT of a French movie theater, shoot dead police and leftist opponents and then mobilize through the French countryside in NEW vehicles teaching communal farmers to see the Reich. That’s the “fire” Q reverse shot. The CFs ran on industrial finance, right, Dunkin? They didn’t feel a Depression, they blamed others for their own poverty.
Run, Shoshanna. Am I right? Ask Q. Frack you, GCHQ.
What global industrial finance did to France they failed to accomplish in the US. That’s because of Smedley Butler. He ratted those fascists out to McCormack and Dickstein like the Maverick he is, not McCain. I put that Navy man of mine to shame for ripping off a sacrificing Marine. I’m a fighter BRAT, too! If his daughter can mouth off, so can Dad’s!
Do we understand why copyright was expanded to 95 years? So folks can’t afford to read the past papers after 1924 until 2019, when these global corporatists hoped to have had the button knotted.
Those films we might manhandle and songs we could have dandled wouldn’t be in their interest or profit margins. It’s all to keep old glories down. Can’t have the natives getting all Black and Tan. Play it, Spanky!
“I don’t want to go to school today…”
These iceholes are working a long game. The water is getting hot. But trust in US, we HATE the stink of Tabu no matter HOW anyone bottles it.
Can you get over UKIP using the Suffragette’s colors for their own? What harlots! Daily Hate Mail coined the term to make us feel bad about ourselves. Still kicking that can of tomato soup. Yoo HOO, UKIP! I can see your SLIP!
“Don’t lean on me man, because you can’t afford the ticket!! I’m back from Suffragette City!!”
No way those bums can rush US. We will wam bam thank you slam them into the dirt.
Keep a vigil, but don’t let them rain on your parade!!
“Litt…is a FASCIST!”
Litt is pretty typical of people in government from the local cops all the way up to Washington.
You know who else scares the shite out of me? The CHEKA! Those Commie Sockpuppets. Same punch Judy show.
Don’t think someone can’t spin a horror from the other end of the stick up. Isn’t the government selling us socialism by claiming this is all for our own security state? That’s a typical one man, no vote con, “This is all for YOU and WE together ROCK!” Until you cast away your last vote, then bust rock. What is Putin calling those in Ukraines he disdains? Fascists. Ain’t THAT rich?
Any one man, no vote system is rigged to hang us. We understand how horrified you are to see the truth, and welcome you to stabilize at this altitude until all the blood gets back into your brain, envelope pusher! That was full throttle until you ran out of juice. Feels good, no? Now you’ve hit the limit, time to glide back down the slide, Number 9.
Anabaptist was a murderous slur before double dipping Baptists could get a little love. Martin Luther made an example of them. They were slaughtered with his literal encouragements by the 10s of thousands well beyond the 100 Mark…
Twain, I’ve found a big history vault neglected for some later PR missteps that keep it shrouded by a den of dragons teeth!. Shhh, don’t wake the White Friars, they’ll send you on a crusade!
There was a time during the economic crisis my brothers told me they would punch me If I kept calling everything fascist, but I was REICH and I forced them both acknowledge that.
However, I learned to spread the syllogisms around. Use some Benito, some Francois de La Rocque, try the Rothermere. Hitler did NOT invent fascism. Japan had its Imperial Way. Austria its Dullfuss.
It’s just an extension of autocracy by fragmenting oligarchies against growing democracies. Someone had to fill in for the vanishing imperialdickheads. How about Brazil’s Estado Novo? Wiki’s full of shite ignoring the French fascists of the 1930s. For goods sake, they cause a premeditated riot in paris Feb. 1934 and succesfully brought on the emergency state! Sacre Bleu! Looks like Blue Shirts were rolling in China, too! How Industrial, Port Arthur!
So sorry to go on and on on your tail. I’ve been suppressed here for weeks and still relentlessly comment but someone left open a backdoor, apparently. Surprise! I had no idea I’d be on candid camera this AM talking to GCHQ!
How do you prefer your scone, GCHQ? With clotted cream BEFORE or AFTER the jam session?
Litt deserved a punch in the face. It’s the only proper response.
Oh, a good kick in the pants will suffice, or how about a kid kicking him in the shin? REAL hard.
My SSMom’s mother resided at a sanitarium cum psych hospital for decades. The former home of WC Fields.
Why can’t y’all be more like the press in North Korea? They are a humble bunch, whose only desire is to glorify the Great Leader. Not one of them has ever had a drink, let alone driven a car, or perish the thought, uttered a word of criticism. They are the journalists you should aspire to become.
Benito, you have no idea of the suppression going on right under neath your nose. Hay, did General Diaz like to paint plein air?
OMG, as a highchaired captive given rather nasty food, I posed so convincingly that Daddy named that pic “Little Bennie.” I was righteously disgusted with the command performance. Did I mention I’m a girl? I can bring the Kreimhild like a dragon.
Say, didn’t you used to be a newspaper editor yourself?
Avanti!
I read La Petite Journal became a French fascion tool in the 1930s.
CFs are Croix de Feu Veterans Militia members who drove the militant Vichy sentiment since 1934 after Coty’s original Vets Club was coopted by global industrialists.
CFs even hunted down Jews for Hitler, the sickos. You could call them the first astroturfed movement exploiting the media wholesale, but there’s always been broadcast evil. CFs provided private police powers for their handlers who handily handed Hitler the keys to Paris for those to Vichy.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ADHw6H4ReCgC&pg=PA337&lpg=PA337&dq=le+petit+journal+french+fascism&source=bl&ots=AKjRkf814w&sig=-Fj7qRDR46SrUkGxuJLNRzayhns&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fBwuU7PWC4a9qQGq44C4Bw&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=le%20petit%20journal%20french%20fascism&f=false
my concern is these are the best of times.
as harsh as the obama administration is with message control,
imagine when alternative administrations control the nsa/surveillance tech.
can they deregulate it?
can a hostile conservative majority congress vote to de-classify it?!
could someone petition for all that data under FOIA?
can it be brokered to the highest private data auction bid?
is it proprietary and that secret data, available for other for-profit licensing?
can a hostile administration share it with what we consider “foreign enemies,” (and domestic?)
time “for a traffic jam?”
fascist enemies can co-opt it in dreadful ways.
or worse.
much worse.
the total bastardization of true democracy.
wide open to abuse,
retributive harrassment, or worse than that.
AND totallytotallytotally diminished intelligence and defense capabilities.
hacked.
useless.
the “drunk driver” maybe a two year old
future president of the usa.
who could use that data–to stay in power.
it may not be totally corrupted for a decade.
it may not be out of the box,
for two decades.
or it could be hacked now.
abused now.
if we do not discuss reality,
we risk not protecting ourselves.
that is a risk worth considering.
deeply.
by informed, thoughtful, rational Americans and our press.
we are fools, in denial
if we don’t consider the worst of times.
and by then, it will be totally saturated,
and all that real time data could be used against us.
dangerously.
its Litt’s job to say “shhh,”
and i respect that.
but this should be available for a public referendum.
we should be openly debating it,
crowdsourcing fail-safes, apps, and alternatives.
how do we know its not anti-trust monopolized tech?
how can competitors possibly compete with top secret utility?
i couldn’t live with myself if it was wildly abused beginning jan2017.
and i was just a mute fool full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
and defense contracting abuse.
scary.
a domestic terrorist could go nuts with it, for a fee.
so could a politician, for a campaign donation.
its all mighty technical talk, though.
derivatives of ” is snowden a traitor?! ” are good for clicks and eyeballs and talk radio.
it’s all regrettably, way above the heads for most american tech consumers.
please ask Litt what the safeguards are.
how quickly can they contain data breaches?
can they?
is there an Emergency Shut-Off, so to speak?
i guess not, post-snowden disclosures…
that ain’t a good sign.
without specifics that breach our national security,
if we can’t talk about it,
how do we know if we are safe?
looming AI/robotics tech.
imagine.
instead of aerial drones, its just a programmed, smart robot.
terra firma drones.
that sounds sci-fi.
weaponized…
its not.
terrorists wouldn’t need to recruit religious extremists.
that sounds pricey for national security to combat.
moore’s law.
twenty years from now, it could be way too late.
a perfect virus.
and machines we cannot fathom now.
and it will be woefully too late, and we won’t even be prepared!
not even educated to competence.
able.
sitting ducks, when originally it was all pitched to prevent exactly that.
and the administration offers no support.
message controlled to the point we feel insecure.
uninformed enough to ask for redress for our constitutional rights being violated.
uninformed enough to not protest.
best case scenario is not nearly good enough…
worst case…
real enough to plan for and prevent.
and we need a justice codes update.
if an enemy foreign or domestic uses that classified data against us,
what exactly are the penalties/sanctions/asset freezes?
jurisdiction issues transparent enough?,
etc.
mandatory sentencing guidelines for any use other than “a national defense clear and present danger…”
retro-active to when?
when does the statute of limitiations start?
might not even be a crime on the codes-regs books, yet.
any deterrent?
we can absolutely broaden the debate.
with digital privilege like this–we really must.
this is a time when we should have great humility about our tech privilege.
our digital forensics–i hope the future holds us tech pioneers in high-esteem considering our still primitive electronic ability.
that we acted responsibly.
to the best of our ability.
I like the way you shrink wrap you thoughts. They last longer in another’s mind.
Best of times, worst of times? I’ll gladly die laughing for Liberty. Thanks for the Humbacher pickup!
Yahoo EMEA (Europe, MidEast, Asia) announced they are moving their operations from London (UK) to Dublin (Ireland). The unofficial reason for Yahoo fleeing the UK and setting up shop in Ireland is rumored to be Yahoo’s need to protect their users from the UK legally approved GCHQ spying and its main partner, the NSA.
The last straw may have been the Snowden documents’ disclosure that the GCHQ had swept up millions of webcam images of Yahoo users. The UK is upset with the move which took place today, Friday, March 21. I applaud Yahoo for fleeing the UK which, as we have learned, can, under Section 7 and similar laws, legally require that anyone, individual or corporation, turn over the keys to the store/kingdom. Please see the Guardian article for details.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/20/theresa-may-yahoo-dublin-security-worry
Sorry, EMEA stands for Europe, MidEast, and Africa.
Anybody find a link to this “Sources and Secrets” conference?
The link is embedded in the article – just click. I guess in your haste to comment, you neglected to read the entire article. Additionally, an Internet search for “secrets and sources conference” will return multiple links. The conference was today, Friday, March 21, starting at 8AM.
Jim, you are a fool. That video is not on the websites link. As of last night it didn’t appear to be posted anywhere.
@Nate: Reread your comment/request – the word “video” is nowhere to be found.
I think you are borderline senile.
A link to the conference kind of implies a video. Don’t play coy. You know damn well you couldn’t find the video either. So you send me that PDF on the same site to save face. Jim, I am guessing that in your haste to be a douche, you didn’t realize the conference video was NOT on that site. LOL. How are your comments so consistently useless!?
@Nate: So, your original comment/request “Anybody find a link to this Sources and Secrets conference” kind of implies a “video”. Well, well, well, who wouda known? Certainly not me. I learned in kindergarten to “use my words”. Next time you want someone to help you find a video, you should ask them by using the word “video” in your request. Will you do that for me and the other commenters?
The Secrets and Sources (S & S) Background Brief (14 pages) can be found at the following link:
http://sourcesandsecrets.com/S_and_S_Background_Brief_Abridged_Report_By_Josh_Meyer.pdf
This brief summarizes the US governments actions, recent and historical, in prosecuting journalists. IMHO, a must read for anyone wanting to understand how the government subverts the 1st Amendment freedom of speech and the press (and the 4th Amendment re unwarranted searches and seizures).
Reading comprehension, Jim…you seriously lack it.
@Nate: It appears that you are rushing to judgement again as you usually do in most of your comments.
You might want to read the 14-page brief I linked to before commenting again. It’s title is “Sources and Secrets – Background Brief, A Forum on the Press, the Government, and National Security”. The forum was held Friday, March 21, 2014, at TheTimesCenter in New York City. After you read the brief, please share your comments.
Once you get a handle on your reading comprehension, you may (or may not) find the longer version of the report enlightening. It is also available online for serious readers who desire more information. This longer report was handed out at Friday’s panel.
Jim, you are still yapping on uselessly!?
You’re one of the more pitiful trolls I’ve encountered.
@Nate: Did you read the 14-page brief that I recommended and linked to in my comment? You will be better informed after reading.
Additionally, about a week ago on a different Intercept article, to establish your credentials, you commented/responded with a long list of national security and 9/11 books you owned (and read?) and you claimed to be well-versed in all three branches of our government, especially the Executive branch: DOJ, NSA, CIA, and FBI. With that impressive background and interests, I recommended (above) that you also read the unabridged report handed out at the S & S forum. Please share your comments once you complete your reading.
Please be aware that your repeated use of one-line responses (see above) are not the sign of an educated and informed mind. You can do better.
Jim, if you can prove that you can have a civil discussion, then I will engage you. Up to now you have been an ass and I have responded to you accordingly.
I have been respectful to you in the past but you haven’t reciprocated. You may read the same books but your comments don’t reflect any knowledge gleaned. IMO, You are here to fight, and who better to fight than one of the 3 people around here that have opinions that differ from the general community. So I’d say the burden is on you to start a substantive discussion. If you want to discuss some aspect of it like the Shield Law, Espionage Act, or other aspect of the PDF, ask away! I am game!! I’m admittedly much more interested in watching a video of the conference though. But if you are willing to be respectful I will as well, but for the time being, I will not go out of my way to start a discussion with you.
lol!
i get it!
Litt, drunk with power, should be more concerned about the administration’s drunk driving of the world’s political and economic situation off a cliff or into a ditch.
Road rage analogy also comes to mind here.
The people who drafted and ratified this determined certain unelected people would check the elected ones:
And Jefferson declared:
The Jefferson quote should be printed in banner high letters and delivered or mailed to every “top” elected and appointed official in our government (USA) and the UK government. Obama, Clapper, Litt, Alexander and every member of the US Congress and the UK parliament need to understand that they are 2nd place to freedom of the press (newspapers). They need to be told repeatedly that they have it all backa$$words.
I hope this Jeffersonian democracy worship stuff stops. It really is very uninformed. He not only had a hideous record of torturing young black slave in his scheme of manufacturing nails. He had the unmitigated gall to fete Aaron Burr in Washington DC after he murdered the one man who literally saved the US from financial ruin Alexander Hamilton. Here is the grisly story of Jefferson’s evil slave system: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/?no-ist Please take a few minutes to read it.
You, Thingumbobesq, are most probably like every other human on earth, partly good, partly not good. You have likely violated your ideals for the sake of some expediency you found important, or were pulled from your ideals by the customs and mores of the time in which your live. None of that makes your ideals less valuable or desirable.
I propose we take the best of what the great thinkers who came before us bequeathed to us and expand upon those ideas and ideals, incorporating them into our personal and political lives, leaving the rest to compost upon the towering heap of human frailties that even those violations may be transformed by us into nobler acts.
Jefferson’s feud with Hamilton over supporting the sans culottes (that Hamilton properly forecast would lead to tyranny) led to Washington’s farewell address. Jefferson’s hatred of the First National Bank, like his later admirer Andrew Jackson was all part of Burr’s treasonous network. Burr set up what was to become Chase Manhattan by a fraud in the New York State Legislature by calling the company a delivery system for clean water. Martin Van Buren (who controlled Jackson) was Burr’s underling. It was he who tore down the 2nd National Bank which threw this country into a profound depression. This was always phony populism. Lincoln resurrected with his greenback policy Hamilton’s system, which was called the “American System” by the economist Henry Carey. FDR revived it again by throwing the Wall Street the financial house speculators out of depository banking.
Obama talks about ideals all the time my friend, but he is lock stock and barrel a creature of Wall Street. So you want me to cherry pick his mincing sentimental dross for high sounding democratic values? I can do that in a jiffy. But I prefer to believe him when he says that the one thing he is really good at is killing people.
Obama has no ideals but his own ego-driven power lust. Are you actually comparing his puny thought to that of Jefferson? If so, your sense of proportion is disastrously out of kiltre.
But I’ll restate that ideals of liberty for all mankind are wholly worth striving for. It is an untenable position to not do so and to claim your reason is that the men who founded our nation were flawed.
In some ways I see Litt’s point, but then, stories like this remind me what a radical proposition democracy is to begin with. It involves a lot of questions that start with “How can you know that…” Yes, the media is a profit driven business, how can we know that they won’t publish nuclear codes or some other very harmful but attention garnering story if we don’t regulate them? How can we know that activist groups aren’t planning to bomb an abortion clinic or animal testing facility if we don’t keep tabs on them? That some lunatic conspiracy theory won’t mislead people into making terrible decisions without making sure people have access to solid information? That some batshit crazy group doesn’t get too powerful? We’ve worked so hard to build this country, and the relatively higher quality of life here (I know it’s not perfect, but 13 of 196 means odds are good your life would be worse if you were born elsewhere).
Then I remember that the scary, vaguely radical-sounding thing in question is actually democracy and the thing that got us to this point in the first place, and I has teh cognitive dissonance.
We desperately need regime change.
“We desperately need regime change.”
With NSA digging up dirt on politicians and blackmailing them, all you’ll get is a different puppet.
If you mean Obama should be impeached, I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is that the so-called practical politicians are “in the tank” on both sides almost to a man or woman for the looting practices “too big to jail” Wall Street criminals. So they fiddle with their patrons while their vise-like financial grip destroys the ability of this nation to have a future worth bequeathing. Now, more and more, Obama’s (and Bush’s) handlers openly ally with criminal enterprises like the financiers in Saudi Arabia al-Qaeda and the Hitler loving Stepan Bandera followers in Ukraine in the name of “humanitarian” geopolitical exploits.
His bogus argument does not explain why the Obama administration has come down so hard on ALL whistleblowers, not just those involved with NatSec issues.
This is quite simple. Whistleblowers claim to be exposing the truth, but there is only one truth; that which is proclaimed by the government. So not only whistleblowers, but journalists and anyone else arrogant enough to claim to disagree with the truth told by the government should be locked up for the public good.
75 years ago, Robert Litt would have been a propagandist for the Nazi party. Now he’s a proud member of Team Obama. History again repeats itself.
Robert Litt is the defender of the “status quo”. He seems to believe that lying and spying by the NSA is akin to flossing – both are good for you. The spokespeople like Litt mistakenly believe their “words” and actions are not as evil as those in equivalent positions for the Nazis. We know their “words” and actions are equivalent.
he aint daft: this is subtle and effective rhetoric. Sophism, actually, but a better adversary than the fella quoted in Ackerman’s column in the Guardian March 19:
‘If the NSA IG is looking into something and we feel that their reporting, their investigation is ongoing, we’ll wait to see what they find or what they don’t find, and that may dictate something that we may do. In the course of a planning process, we may get a hotline [call], or we may get some complaint that may dictate an action that we may or not take,” Thomas said’
I know which asshole I’d rather interrogate.
“There ought to be an adversarial approach between the press and the government,” Litt said. “But,” he added with a touch of menace, ”it’s a two-way process.”
Mr. Litt, in this case, the press is representing the People, who the government apparently regard as terrorists. Be careful, you may actually push the lazy and complacent populace (meaning a lot of the mainstream whore press also) into action, or even rebellion. As our Constitution prescribes as the remedy for tyranny.
In the media’s publication of the Snowden revelations, someone is drunk alright. It is the NSA, CIA and other factions of the American Police State, and they are drunk with power. It is well past time to close down or severely restrict the NSA, CIA, FBI, DIA, etc., and impeach the president (who I voted for, once) who have gone on the rampage against our Constitution, and continue to do so, with no end in sight.
“The media is not accountable to anything but the number of clicks on a website”
In other words, the choice of each individual person, true democracy, to select what website they wish to visit is wrong.
”we ban drunk driving because it increases the risk of accidents. ”
Well guess what. Secrecy increases the risk of oppression.
On the TV today was a piece on how both GM and the NTSB long knew about the latest GM problems and covered them up. It comes to mind that no insider dared to leak information about the cars for fear of being prosecuted as a whistleblower.
What bothers me most about this story, this issue, is the complete ignorance on the part of both the government and the media of to whom they are accountable.
The problem has two sides. On one side, you have a government that now flat refuses to accept any form of accountability. “Who elected you” indeed Mr. Litt…as in who elected you or anyone else at the CIA or NSA? On the other side, you have a media isolated from its cause by money. Sure, there are some journalistic publications that aren’t strictly about profit; but show me one outlet that serves the public good without money involved…they simply don’t exist. And if you have to make profit, or sales, to keep reporting news, you have a serious conflict of interest that cannot be breached, period.
So we have a report here about a conversation between our representatives in the media, and our representatives in government, and what we get out of it is a report of a disagreement on who holds accountability.
Guess what folks? Neither of these parties is right because both are accountable to and subjects of the people of this country, because the people of this country (America, specifically) are the only ones with any power. We delegate it, but it is our power. That it has been usurped by the government, and as well in many ways by the media and journalists (who decides what you report…we do, but you decide based on sales…hardly a way to report all the news that matters to everyone, is it?), is our fault because we have become too lazy to hold anyone accountable.
Stop expecting the media to hold the government accountable for you, and start holding both the government as well as the media accountable. How? By picking up the phone and complaining, and by discussing the matters with friends and neighbors.
We are in this situation (of government spying and a police state) because we tacitly agree to it – meaning we don’t say anything about it. So, get off your lazy asses are start complaining. Here’s a good example to get you started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzw4-VW4X9I – fast forward to 7:00 to see the portion where I call Senator Dianne Feinstein and ask her how it feels to deal with a non-cooperative government entity who just threatens you instead of helping you…
There is nothing “lazy ass” about realizing that “complaining” to those who, for years now, have proven themselves to be listening only to their 1% minders is a waste of time. That avenue is nearly as hopeless corrupted and closed as was Ed Snowden’s avenues for reporting his concerns about the Surveillance State to congress or others who were inside the NSA. That’s why Snowden – successfully – took his concerns outside of the corrupted congress and Surveillance State hierarchy.
So rather than blustering about how you’ve spoken the bought ten times over millionaire Dianne Feinstein, try listening to others who have worked those avenues in the past and have learned from experience to take their energy outside of the corruption mill and work on making change from by speaking to all of us. Listen to Margaret Flowers in this interview explain her experience.
Margaret Flowers Interview by Dennis Trainer — Single Payer
I don’t listen to anyone, I think for myself.
Have YOU ever stopped to think that perhaps the reason things got the way they are is because people like you believe that being in contact with your representatives does no good.
The fact of the matter is that no, it dosn’t go any good for me to complain, or for you to complain. You won’t get a senator or congressman to change their vote because YOU say something. But if you, and 5 million other people also make that same call, things will be a bit different, won’t they?
Our representatives stopped listening to us because we stopped talking to them. And your and your friends’ efforts over the years was far too little too late because people stopped holding government accountable long, long ago. They were running on the honor system until about Reagan when they got a little bolder. But with Bush Jr, all hell broke loose because they realized by then that Americans didn’t give a shit about taking care of their own governance.
You also don’t think very far ahead. Here you are telling the world that calling our representatives won’t do any good. On one hand, you have people abroad laughing at you because they know you’re wrong. On the other, you have Americans nodding in agreement because yes, right now, one person can’t make a difference. But the fact is that if everyone who read my advice did call their representatives, they could make a difference. But now that you have made them believe their actions would be a waste of time, they’ll just continue to sit on their lazy asses, and you and I will continue to be less safe, and I will continue to try to fight against the ignorance of people like you who fail to realize the power of published words.
Evil actions based in ignorance are no less excuseable than evil actions made in full awareness of their consequences.
You didn’t watch the video, obviously. Coming back with the same rant, recycled from the previous rant you posted prior, coupled with wantonly remaining ignorant about me and what I was attempting to share is about as useful as talking to Dianne Feinstein. The statements where you pretend to rephrase or summarize something that I never said or implied, such as this: “You also don’t think very far ahead. Here you are telling the world that calling our representatives won’t do any good. On one hand, you have people abroad laughing at you because they know you’re wrong. On the other, you have Americans nodding in agreement because yes, right now, one person can’t make a difference,” only shows that you not only didn’t read and understand what I wrote, and you sure as hell didn’t watch the video which went into specific detail related to what I was expressing and why. If you did you might – I stress *might because you don’t seem to be a very good listener at all – you might have gathered that your “one person” scream is exactly the opposite of what I expressed and encouraged.
But I guess you think this writing or calling you “representative” idea is new to us citizens of America, so you continue calling Feinstein, and continue to rant and rave at those who aren’t convinced that you’ve won the day. Good luck.
Perhaps if you gave some pressing or even valid reason why anyone should click on the website links, I might click them.
But, the internet is not a source of fact, nor are you. And the simple fact is, you couldn’t be more wrong. So, I choose to ignore you and other trolls because you are, to me, about as valuable as the NSA; whom I believe to be no better than internet trolls themselves.
Think before you breathe, okay honey.
I have to wonder what it is that someone who “doesn’t listen to anyone” thinks to himself about and how he/she forms thoughts in a vacuum.
Since you’ve stated that you don’t listen to anyone, I don’t have any expectation that you’ll listen to this but just for the heck of it, ‘Listening to others is a time honored way of learning from others.’ You might consider giving that a try.
Mike & Kitt’s points are both thoughtful & considered, but their dialog reminds me of why the “silent majority” hasn’t been represented as well as it should be in America – at least if the polls over the last 40 years are credible – which most data does confirm is the case.
Actually, fuck the polls- it’s the end results that matter, eh’?
I’ve been at this ‘democracy’ thing for just as long, and the more centrist positions – calling them Democratic or Republican hasn’t and doesn’t matter at all – have all too often lacked the electoral support needed to make an effective change in how we govern ourselves.
Mike reminds us that participatory government is mandatory for effective governance, and advocates direct intervention with those we elect as the motivator for change – a point that seems self-evident.
Kitt, on the other hand, offers us another reasonable voice for change in Dr. Margaret Flowers, noting that one of the primary impediments to change is the fact that the power of money is equal or greater than that of any individual vote (and has more often than not surpassed our collective individual electoral voices) in choosing who will represent our interests.
My points are these:
• That these are not mutually exclusive views, in that these actions, and more, are needed to effect the change desired.
• That the “silent majority” has consistently sabotaged the mutually desired outcome by arguing about the means to the end (as Kitt & Mike are doing here), when in fact both their efforts, and more, are needed to ensure the desired result.
• That this “silent majority” will only get what they all want as individuals when they can collectively bury their pedantic differences long enough to effect the change that most people want, which is:
An effective representational government that is powered by the many, not the by the few.
Unless and until the “silent majority” can all get on the same page on these fundamental issues, it will be, as it has predominantly been for the past 40 years or so, nothing but cat fights between the worthy (but misguided) adversaries – who actually, and ironically, are essentially on the same side.
So instead of, as I have witnessed these past 40 years as a voter, allowing the country to slide even more deeply into the oligarchic morass that comes from the inability to come together on such basic issues as these, let’s try, Kitt & Mike, right now reach common solutions, rather than letting the process of arguing how to get there ultimately stymie any progress at all.
Oh, and lest one forgets, all this yammering is for naught, unless you get the fuck out and vote, you jackasses:
http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/william-rivers-pitt-the-answer-is-turnout-vote-you-jackass/18532-william-rivers-pitt-the-answer-is-turnout-vote-you-jackass
@sillyputty
You didn’t summarize or represent my position in the least. I disagree with your Pitt link just as mightily as I did only days ago. Imagine that. And I’ve already stated how much I disagree with even thinking about believing that dialoging with the millionaire tyrant Dianne Feistein is worth a moment of our time. Just note her latest outrage. It’s all about her. She remains completely oblivious to citizens of the world being spied on by a monstrosity that is “overseen” by her.
This Mike Wolf character is too dug in to even open, much less listen to Margaret Flowers. Is there some reason why I should type a few hundred more words to explain to someone who won’t even click a link where so much of what I’m expressing is explained within that link? Mike and I, way the hell in spite of what you’ve inserted, are not on the same page or even looking for the same end. Try not to speak for me in the future please.
Just to give yet another clue into the mind of this Mike Wolf character, on top of his refusal to “listen to anybody,” he’s a misogynist. He thinks calling me “honey” gives him power. He also mistakenly thinks I’m a woman. That part doesn’t matter. The “honey” bit though reveals that he’s an ass, even more so since he used his “honey” diss with a sentence calling his “female” target ‘too stupid to breath’. Mike Wolf has divulged more than enough about himself to show that, no, he and I, and also not you, are not on the same page, Sillyputty.
@Kitt,
I never attempted to summarize or represent your position, nor, despite your claim, did I “speak for you” in my previous post, nor will I do it in the future – that’s your job.
I simply offered the notion that yours and Mike’s inability to reach common ground is a systemic problem that has a solution, one that is neither exclusively yours, nor mine, nor Mike’s.
I’ll summarize again for your edification:
So Kitt, if indeed you are against the idea of an effective representational government that is powered by the many, not the by the few, then yes, I guess we are not on the same page at all.
Given that, just exactly what page is it that you are on?
And please, make your argument from a persuasive and analytical perspective – because despite the fact that the adjective filled and argumentative nature of your responses has no effect on me personally, it really degrades any opportunity to find out what your point actually is regarding, not the individuals you are conversing with, but what the real topic of discussion is.
Best regards, Sillyputty
I’m listening to Margaret Flowers, right now.She is my hero.It’s very interesting, fun-video.Thx for posting.
@sillyputty
Just watch, listen and comprehend the damed video. I am, and have been for a long time, very much on the same page as Margaret Flowers and what she describes – and why she has come to her conclusions – in that video. Take special note about what she says about Moveon and how Moveon, in conjunction with the Democratic Party, always tries to co-opt outsiders under the guise of “Vote for whothefuckever because they’ll bring home the prize!” I’m on to that skunk game. You and Mike Misogyny aren’t. You did indeed attempt to summarize and wrench into your vision what my “page” is. I couldn’t be more at odds with the misogynist Mike Wolf, or you, than I have already stated. And also with your tool William Pitt, who you again linked to in an attachment to your “points.”
@Kitt
I did watch the entire video of Ms. Flowers before I responded to any comments, and what she proposes isn’t new or revolutionary; in fact quite the contrary. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be heard and repeated. It just isn’t the end-all and be-all solution for the problems facing democracies here in the USA and around the world.
It’s good that she does in fact advocate, as do I and many others, the critical need to get money out of the electoral process, thus recapturing the power of the vote for every single citizen, as it is intended. A point I made previously indicating that I had, in fact, watched the video in question.
Ms. Flowers has good ideas, particularly in advocating for a broad based movement, which is what I described earlier as needed in order to affect change, and describes very well the dysfunction that occurs with the Occupy movement’s reliance on having a “leaderless” movement. She also reiterates the idea that local involvement at the grass-roots level in the form of co-ops, public banks, and other tangible democratizing activities need to be brought to many communities across the nation at once, in order to nurture and coordinate the change that is desired.
So actually Kitt, your hyperbolic declaration that I should just
is redundant, in that I did watch it before I ever responded to you, and because I accurately summarized some of what she said in my earlier response.
Kitt, you go on to claim that:
That you think that you can think for others is your first fallacy, and continues the arrogance, ignorance and rancor of your replies, in that not only do I understand that different factions within a group heading in the same general direction have disagreements, but that also this is a normal part of the process of pragmatic politics.
You push as hard as you can as a group, and take the best that you can that the existing political climate has to offer, which is what the Affordable Health Care Act did. It’s actually rubbish compared to what I’ve advocated since the early 1980’s (single payer) but it’s a step in the right direction, and it was all that was ever going to happen at that time.
So, in order to move forward, in the end we need the idealism of the Ms. Flowers of the world, combined with the pragmatism the William Pitt’s of the world, as well as the ground breaking whistle-blowing of the Manning’s’ and Snowden’s of the world, and finally the outstanding reporting from the Greenwald’s of the world on what our governments are doing to civil liberties – all this and more will be needed to make for the effective change that most people want.
But it bears repeating again that in order to bring about more change, people that cannot communicate effectively to others without patronizing, minimizing, belittling, ridiculing, or mocking those that they are having a discussion with are actually one of the largest impediments to progress for the rest of us.
Why? Because, Kitt, your revengeful, thoughtless, repetitive ad-hominem arguments lead not to a better understanding of the problems at hand and therefore better information for future solutions to those problems – but rather result in a further division among people who are supposed to be working together to reach a common objective:
So Kitt, unless and until you can organize your own thoughts better and control your online demeanor better (re-watch Ms. Flowers video for guidance on this) I, for one, won’t be trying to humor your undeveloped diatribes any longer.
With that said, whatever happens and however you may feel come election day – don’t forget to get out and vote.
Best regards, Sillyputty
http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/william-rivers-pitt-the-answer-is-turnout-vote-you-jackass/18532-william-rivers-pitt-the-answer-is-turnout-vote-you-jackass
That’s your takeaway from listening to Flowers, and from Moveon’s attempts at co-opting. You call that “pragmatism” I call it horse shit – as does Flowers – and the perfect recipe for failure, as has been proven over and over again, and as why we continue to be in the disastrous state that we are in.
With that “pragmatism” statement you’ve managed to perfectly reveal and explain what I have been stating is the entire difference between you and I and the misogyny person. So, as I’ve said all along, your attempts at summarizing me and attempts at rephrasing me have been wholly of your imagination. You can take your boorish William Pitt “pragmatism” with you to some other game show and see how it does for you there.
I didn’t ask only that you just listen and watch Margaret Flowers in the video. I asked that you listen and watch and comprehend. I also have told you several times that I and she disagree with you. But you keep pretending that it is only me who disagrees with you.
Here’s an example for you directly from her words. Now, since your passive-aggressive argumentation that you’ve played with on me has worn way thin, perhaps you’d like to just write to Flowers and argue with her instead.
–Margaret Flowers
Margaret Flowers is not interested in SillyPutty pragmatism.
In your reply about having listened and watched Flowers’ video you left out that I asked that you listen and watch comprehensively. Your quote above shows that you didn’t do that. And that is what counts. Especially since you keep badgering me about “pragmatism” being the only way and even pretending that it is Flowers’ way. It isn’t what she advocated in that video and she advocated, again, exactly opposite of what you keep repeating
Kitt, your inability to even process another’s writing in order to form a response that resembles discussion is apparently nonexistent.
Some facts:
I never stated to you, ever, that pragmatism was the only way to reach a goal. You made that up.
I never pretended anything regarding Ms. Flowers because I’m addressing your comments, not hers. You made that up as well.
My points are simple and direct:
1) If you want to have a government that represents the people and not the powerful, then people need to get over themselves, get together, and get it done.
2) In order to get the above done, people like yourself, Ms. Flowers, William Pitt, Mike Wolfe, et al. are by default to a part of the equation.
3) That it will take all our efforts to do this – and that the constant “my way is better than your way” mentality is the single biggest impediment to progress – and if it continues it will kill the chances of getting anything accomplished at all.
That you have strong feelings about how to get a more representational government is obvious; however, that you and too many others continue to stuff yourselves into a “one size fits all” solution to getting there is what has in the past, and will in the future, kill any chances for substantive governmental reforms whatsoever.
So get out of the box, get on with the fight.
And for goodness sake, stop trying to blame others for misunderstanding you. It’s tiring.
Where was the media when the NDAA made peaceful protest illegal?
You’re welcome for the Flowers interview with Trainor link. She has such a pleasant demeanor while speaking about very unpleasant subject content. I can’t begin to match or approach her style of pleasant demeanor when speaking about the massive undermining of society as she does. Not in my makeup I guess.
<strong@sillyputty
Well Kitt,
You’ve done it.
You have completely proved your inability to form a cogent argument that has facts that can be refuted.
You have completely not answered any of the specific questions asked of you about this lack of accountability for your weak and, honestly, baffling assertions, and you have proven that your only counter argument is, in the end, to kill the messenger.
You’ve left me no choice then, but to rely on a wordsmith greater than I to express the extreme disappointment you’ve shown in your inability to carry on a debate:
~ Christopher Hitchens
Best Regards,
Sillyputty
Kitt, it doesn’t appear that Sillyputty is using any words other than their own here. When they quote someone they seem to attribute it, etc…When they paraphrase someone it seems to be self-evident in how it is written.
As far as you wanting to:
It may behoove you to reread everything you’ve written in the past on here, as well as the responses that you’ve received, and see what you think when you’re done.
Litt, Clapper, Alexander, Brennan (and the entire “Rogue Government”), continue to reveal themselves as self-righteous psychopaths. The statements, analogies, and rationale they provide for justifying their actions would be comical if not for the fact that they are committing significant crimes against U.S. law, U.S. Constitution, and all people around the globe..
From their perspective, crimes such as warrantless bulk surveillance/, wiretapping, torture, and obstruction of justice are all “just another day on the job”. All completely justified.
They deny and hide their activities.
They take no responsibility for the lies and crimes they commit.
They attempt to “blame others” for the simple act of unveiling, investigating, and reporting the TRUTH.
At this point, their continued lies, denials, and accusations further erode what little credibility they have left. Soon, they will completely exposed for deceitful liars that they are…..
What would you do, what you would you think, if you found out that psychopaths have shaped our society, our world, and in fact were completely responsible for nearly all human strife and suffering due to conflict, poverty, violence, and limited access to resources since history began?
What if psychopaths are an anomoly, a diseased form of human who aren’t compatible with society, yet who believe themselves to be MORE human than the rest of us?
Are you aware of moral reasoning (Wikipedia, great article on Kohlberg’s Moral Development, highly recommended)? What if you found out that psychopaths lack moral reasoning; and that moral reasoning is what makes a human being qualified to join a society? Are you aware of how evil a psychopath’s decision making process is?
I’ve written a paper on the subject, despite having suffered brain damage which affects my ability to organize and communicate complex ideas (though I can easily figure them out.) The paper can be found here: http://www.wolveswolveswolves.org/moralreasoning/DevelopmentalDisorderImpactingHumanSocialEvolution.htm if you wanted to read more.
I started a show a couple years ago on YouTube, where I put a fictional perspective on reality and blamed everything that is wrong with the world on zombies. As the show progressed, I discovered that psychopaths can best be described as zombies. My fictional show suddenly became horrifyingly real.
I just wish someone would watch it.
Yes, this is their zeitgeist; and until those who elect and hire them tell them other wise they’ll ‘carry on, carrying on’ – all at our expense.
Somebody could use a little humility, all right. His arrogance is breathtaking. If you’ve got this level of arrogance in a public official, impunity and abuse aren’t far behind. We’re back to the Rumsfeld/Cheney school of relentlessness.
Your tax dollars at work.
Rand Paul is fond of saying that the 1% pay 40% of all tax. (It’s actually only the federal income tax.)
So, I guess the 1% are getting the NSA they paid for?
The 1% comprise anyone w/ an adjusted gross of $388,905 or more. That’s a lot of libertarians and paleocons who, by definition, are at diametric constitutional odds with the hyper-Statist Big Government tax-funded police- and surveillance state so popular with Occupy and other progressive left.
…as with a generously compensated collection of MSNBC and show business personalities and Forward-leaning bi-coastal intelligentsia.
I don’t think journalism has anything to do with drunk driving. Journalists (or opinion writers like me) are usually shunned when speaking against anything alcohol-related, whereas drunk driving is much more freely allowed than actually discussing it.
In your 4th paragraph, your link shows Litt saying: …”not every drunk driver causes a fatal accident, but we ban drunk driving because it increases the risk of accidents. In the same way, we classify information because of the risk of harm, even if no harm actually can be shown in the end from any particular disclosure.”
Given that perspective, drinking is even further from Litt’s analogy. People drive drunk every day, beat their wives in drunken fury, shoot people, drunks are robbed and rolled coming out of bars, and people are dying from alcohol-related diseases. I still fail to see any analogy. Except… anyone involved with drunks thinks “It’s none of your business” is a good deterrent when it comes to standing up against abuse (along with publicly pronouncing the protester is a pariah.)
In Denver, Governor John Hickenlooper (Democrat), just installed beer taps in the Governor’s Mansion, celebrating the exponential growth of alcohol consumption (tax money) in the state. Is there exponential growth of toxic journalism leading to social and physical disease? I don’t think so. But there is a lot of “If it doesn’t involve you, it’s none of your business and you have no right to say anything.” A typical alcohol-related response.
I refer you to the Centers For Disease Control website:
http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm
Absolutely brilliant summation.
That they can believe their own tortured logic is beyond ridiculous, it’s dangerous.
“He said the intelligence community is subject to congressional accountability.”
Bullshit. There is zero accountability as the “Congress” in this case, is one shrunken down to a select few on the Intelligence committees.
Is it really necessary to spell out the reasons why that argument is 100% deranged?
1) No one drunk drives on the basis that they think it would be in the public interest to do so.
2) If drunk driving is allowed, the resulting harm is, in fact, measurable and non-trivial.
3) If you’re caught drunk driving, your license gets taken away temporarily. You’re not sent to prison for decades.
4) There are no award-winning drunk drivers, as far as I know.
5) We recently had a President with a DUI arrest on his record. Gov’t officials shouldn’t bring up this simile.
Exactly right. It’s a stupid analogy. With no person harmed by the leaks Chelsea Manning spent 3 years in solitary with the added cruel and unnecessary punishment of being on suicide watch before her trial even began, and was then sentenced to 35 years. A drunk driving offense with no one harmed will likely get you a ticket and fine. Totally incomparable.
And the thing is that if investigative journalism were shown to be harmful to the public interest in balance, of course it would make sense to consider regulating it. But that’s absolutely not the case. To illustrate that, one only needs to look at the biggest document dumps in history: The 3 main Wikileaks dumps, which were supposed to get people killed at whatnot. The worst that came of them was that the US government was embarrassed a bit, and some negotiations didn’t go through (notably, the US couldn’t stay in Iraq because of one cable, which is a good thing.) So if those enormous leaking events didn’t cause any harm of significance, then it’s silly to claim investigative journalism in general is dangerous.
Absolutely. Drunk driving is immoral and investigative journalism is distinctly moral.
A better analogy would be someone driving soberly to an empty airfield, putting up signs and warning people they intend to drive drunk at a specific time. Blocking off the area just in case. Drinking a beer then driving around for five minutes.
Which cable were you referring to that led to the withdrawal from Iraq?
Not many people are aware of Chelsea Manning’s biggest contribution.
Oh yes, thanks for the link. It is ridiculous that immunity was wanted or given in the first place. It gives psychopaths carte blanche to join the army and murder knowing they can’t be prosecuted.
“Who elected you?” The people of America did. They are your boss. And the journalists are their representatives, in working against the power of the government. Remember that, Mr. Litt – you work for us.
You know, there’s a point to be made about the undemocratic nature of the press, particularly the monopolized corporate press. The concept of a “watchdog press” is a good one, but it’s practically non-existent these days, with some notable exceptions. So media reform and regulation is not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but it should be the opposite of what someone like Robert Litt has in mind.
The only dog they watch out for is Israel.The rest of US mutts live in the land of the fee and home of the knave.Each are growing exponentially.We’re all marketing targets,with fear hitting grand slams of pissing our tax dollars into corporate profit.God,where is our Willie Pute to save US from the international criminals raping our nation,and making it the butt hole of ridicule and idiocy.This is getting ridiculous.
“Litt also asked the editors: “Who elected you?””
I’m no fan of the US Constitution, but within the context of that question, the blunt answer is:
“Those who voted to ratify the First Amendment and all subsequent generations who refrained from voting to amend the constitution further in regards to the freedom of the press. In the same way all those generations did not amend the constitution to nullify the Fourth Amendment, which you are in violation of. That’s who, you fascist pig,”
Thanks I enjoyed this. Fyi, in your last two paragraphs you spell anti-press in two different ways. Although one spelling is inside quotation of Jane Mayer, since you’re transcribing her words, spell it the same way as you do elsewhere.
There is a “drunk driver” in the white house. Tuesday is binge day.
It appears that the bastions of democracy, the USA and UK, are tilting farther towards an oppressive state where dissent directed towards the government’s policies and practices will no longer be permitted.
Glenn is in Brazil, Laura, Jacob Appelbaum, and Sarah Harrison are in Germany, and Julian Assange is under siege in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London. Will all the remaining investigative journalists in the USA and UK need to flee their own countries to practice their journalistic passion of speaking truth to power? From my little corner of America, which was once the land of the free and the home of the brave, I foresee a very bleak and dark future for Americans if our elected leaders continue their greedy, selfish, and power hungry ways.
And Michael Hastings is dead. Most likely murdered by a CIA death squad.
Wow!
I’m nonplussed.
Pretty weak analogy.
Those chil’rens are obviously grasping at straws.
In reading the article, it states that Mr. Litt asked the Editors “who elected you?”
I might like to ask Mr. Litt the very same question, with a very heavy emphasis on “you”. He is nothing more than a slightly higher than minimum wage bureaucrat.
LOOK! Squirrel……………
Now now….
We are supposed to raise our arms gleefully and shout “Heil Hitler!”
Yes and Hitler was also elected after George Bush’s daddy and friends bankrolled him.
Global industrial finance was falling all over itself trying to replace the influence of vanishing monarchies. Someone has to make the calls, and they had the cables. “I’ll take Baku on an Onion Dome, hold the horseradish.”
American and British finance usually were hostile to German finance and Russia was always in play. The French were typically rolled in both directions, but lets not forget what they did to the British. William the Conqueroo killed most of the Angle Saxons, folks. Most Brits are fracking French.
This fellow Litt is coming across as a slightly hysterical Goebbels. All of these fascist lawyers ought to be rounded up and put on trial. All of them from the unindicted war criminal John Yoo to the smarmy Robert Litt.
”Not every drunk driver causes a fatal accident, but we ban drunk driving because it increases the risk of accidents. In the same way, we classify information because of the risk of harm, even if no harm actually can be shown in the end from any particular disclosure.”
This is the argument from the POTUS’s “intelligence community’s top lawyer”????
The POTUS needs another attorney because this is the argument of the Prosecuting Attorney:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Amendment I of the United States Constitution.
This “attorney” just acknowledged and admitted the Executive Branch’s illegal Constitutional breach!
Nobody cares because the people are not supposed to know or question anything. We were all taught this in school because if you did you were ostracized.
Yep. “Shut up and repeat after me. Okay you passed the test. Now make yourself useful and help us get on with it. Boy.”
This to an audience of journalists in the NYTimes auditorium?
Do these guys simply have no idea how their rantings sound to the rest of the world? Have they simply stopped caring what anyone hears or thinks?
That statement grabbed my attention, too, when it showed up in Dan Froomkin’s twitter feed. It’s aggressive, combative, potentially intimidating, there’s a scent of threat, and – hence – attention grabbing. I’m of two minds as to how to interpret it. (1) As you suggest, they’ve stopped caring how they sound. In a sense they’re emphasizing a signal they suspect we’ve missed; ie, The gloves are off. This ain’t bean-bag. We are out to get you… hard. And/or (2) You’ve really pushed our backs to the wall. We’re really anxious about where you’re going with this. We don’t like this change, this rediscovered adversarial stance you’ve taken and our best defense is to come out swinging to see if we can dissuade you from going further than you have. Obviously, these are not mutually exclusive positions.
We know which message our elected officials have received.
Pelosi was speaking specifically of the CIA, but I think she’d be just as worried about the NSA or any other surveillance agency. We’ve had reason to believe that the NSA is collecting up Congress’ communications right along with our own; they’re not exempt.
What we have yet to discover is which of the two messages (or, both) the press is detecting, and their assessment of the risks if they (1) back down and back away, and/or (2) if they press forward. As a profession, and as individuals, they face risks either way. They can become irrelevant in the former case, or targets in the latter.
Given Rober Litt’s assertions, the press confronts a really interesting matrix of decisions.