This week, the Associated Press exposed a secret program run by the U.S. Agency for International Development to create “a Twitter-like Cuban communications network” run through “secret shell companies” in order to create the false appearance of being a privately owned operation. Unbeknownst to the service’s Cuban users was the fact that “American contractors were gathering their private data in the hope that it might be used for political purposes”–specifically, to manipulate those users in order to foment dissent in Cuba and subvert its government. According to top-secret documents published today by The Intercept, this sort of operation is frequently discussed at western intelligence agencies, which have plotted ways to covertly use social media for “propaganda,” “deception,” “mass messaging,” and “pushing stories.”
These ideas–discussions of how to exploit the internet, specifically social media, to surreptitiously disseminate viewpoints friendly to western interests and spread false or damaging information about targets–appear repeatedly throughout the archive of materials provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. Documents prepared by NSA and its British counterpart GCHQ–and previously published by The Intercept as well as some by NBC News–detailed several of those programs, including a unit devoted in part to “discrediting” the agency’s enemies with false information spread online.
The documents in the archive show that the British are particularly aggressive and eager in this regard, and formally shared their methods with their U.S. counterparts. One previously undisclosed top-secret document—prepared by GCHQ for the 2010 annual “SIGDEV” gathering of the “Five Eyes” surveillance alliance comprising the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and the U.S.–explicitly discusses ways to exploit Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and other social media as secret platforms for propaganda.
The document was presented by GCHQ’s Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG). The unit’s self-described purpose is “using online techniques to make something happen in the real or cyber world,” including “information ops (influence or disruption).” The British agency describes its JTRIG and Computer Network Exploitation operations as a “major part of business” at GCHQ, conducting “5% of Operations.”
The annual SIGDEV conference, according to one NSA document published today by The Intercept, “enables unprecedented visibility of SIGINT Development activities from across the Extended Enterprise, Second Party and US Intelligence communities.” The 2009 Conference, held at Fort Meade, included “eighty-six representatives from the wider US Intelligence Community, covering agencies as diverse as CIA (a record 50 participants), the Air Force Research Laboratory and the National Air and Space Intelligence Center.”
Defenders of surveillance agencies have often insinuated that such proposals are nothing more than pipe dreams and wishful thinking on the part of intelligence agents. But these documents are not merely proposals or hypothetical scenarios. As described by the NSA document published today, the purpose of SIGDEV presentations is “to synchronize discovery efforts, share breakthroughs, and swap knowledge on the art of analysis.”
For instance: One of the programs described by the newly released GCHQ document is dubbed “Royal Concierge,” under which the British agency intercepts email confirmations of hotel reservations to enable it to subject hotel guests to electronic monitoring. It also contemplates how to “influence the hotel choice” of travelers and to determine whether they stay at “SIGINT friendly” hotels. The document asks: “Can we influence the hotel choice? Can we cancel their visit?”
Previously, der Spiegel and NBC News both independently confirmed that the “Royal Concierge” program has been implemented and extensively used. The German magazine reported that “for more than three years, GCHQ has had a system to automatically monitor hotel bookings of at least 350 upscale hotels around the world in order to target, search, and analyze reservations to detect diplomats and government officials.” NBC reported that “the intelligence agency uses the information to spy on human targets through ‘close access technical operations,’ which can include listening in on telephone calls and tapping hotel computers as well as sending intelligence officers to observe the targets in person at the hotels.”
The GCHQ document we are publishing today expressly contemplates exploiting social media venues such as Twitter, as well as other communications venues including email, to seed state propaganda–GHCQ’s word, not mine–across the internet:
(The GCHQ document also describes a practice called “credential harvesting,” which NBC described as an effort to “select journalists who could be used to spread information” that the government wants distributed. According to the NBC report, GCHQ agents would employ “electronic snooping to identify non-British journalists who would then be manipulated to feed information to the target of a covert campaign.” Then, “the journalist’s job would provide access to the targeted individual, perhaps for an interview.” Anonymous sources that NBC didn’t characterize claimed at the time that GCHQ had not employed the technique.)
Whether governments should be in the business of publicly disseminating political propaganda at all is itself a controversial question. Such activities are restricted by law in many countries, including the U.S. In 2008, The New York Times’ David Barstow won a Pulitzer Prize for exposing a domestic effort coordinated by the Pentagon whereby retired U.S. generals posed as “independent analysts” employed by American television networks and cable news outlets as they secretly coordinated their messaging with the Pentagon.
Because American law bars the government from employing political propaganda domestically, that program was likely illegal, though no legal accountability was ever brought to bear (despite all sorts of calls for formal investigations). Barack Obama, a presidential candidate at the time, pronounced himself in a campaign press release “deeply disturbed” by the Pentagon program, which he said “sought to manipulate the public’s trust.”
Propagandizing foreign populations has generally been more legally acceptable. But it is difficult to see how government propaganda can be segregated from domestic consumption in the digital age. If American intelligence agencies are adopting the GCHQ’s tactics of “crafting messaging campaigns to go ‘viral’,” the legal issue is clear: A “viral” online propaganda campaign, by definition, is almost certain to influence its own citizens as well as those of other countries.
For its part, GCHQ refused to answer any specific questions on the record, instead providing its standard boilerplate script which it provides no matter the topic of the reporting: “all of GCHQ’s work is carried out in accordance with a strict legal and policy framework which ensures that our activities are authorised, necessary and proportionate, and that there is rigorous oversight.” The NSA refused to comment.
But these documents, along with the AP’s exposure of the sham “Cuban Twitter” program, underscore how aggressively western governments are seeking to exploit the internet as a means to manipulate political activity and shape political discourse.
Those programs, carried out in secrecy and with little accountability (it seems nobody in Congress knew of the “Cuban Twitter” program in any detail) threaten the integrity of the internet itself, as state-disseminated propaganda masquerades as free online speech and organizing. There is thus little or no ability for an internet user to know when they are being covertly propagandized by their government, which is precisely what makes it so appealing to intelligence agencies, so powerful, and so dangerous.
———
Documents published with this article:


OFF TOPIC – The Intercept is getting ridiculous. Glenn travels to Berlin and NYC to receive well-deserved awards and no new articles for over a week, despite all these, ah so proudly announced writers and / or editors.
Two months after the inception of this website and over six months after this venture has been announced, nothing really new is happening. It’s about a time for the publisher and / or editor to address these concerns.
It does seem a little less than ‘adversarial journalism’ to be silent for great stretches of time. Agreed.
Dear Zelda,
How’s your latest taxpayer-draining uselessness working out? Calling it “Where’s greenWaldo?” perchance?
What stunning arrogance. “Other common tasks.”
Glenn Greenwald Keynote Speech in Berlin the other day. Accepting the Liberty Award.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCMdycx0q8o
Thank you Ma’am.
You’re welcome. (errata: it’s a keynote speech only.)
Wishing Glenn and Laura all the best.
Yeah, don’t bother with Ewan McCaskill, who also went through customs, probably without an “ACLU representative.”
You know, sometimes it’s like you don’t like Glenn very much.
Glenn sure is much more calm and reasonable sounding on video than he conveys in his writing. I can’t say I am surprised.
As expected, he resorts to his predictable and ridiculous overgeneralization that the entire U.S. media establishment is in the pocket of USG (The NYT didn’t break through the Bush Administration’s lies on Iraq Intel so they are damned forever!!) and the implication that Glenn Greenwald – with his penchant for strident and non-objective journalism – is some White Knight out to save journalism itself. Gag me – the notion is simply delusional. Glenn is not even close to being in the same league as the Bart Gellmans, Mark Mazzettis, Dana Priests, James Bamfords, and other journalists that don’t resort to petulant name-calling and hyperbole. Those individuals seem to aim for some objectivity and aren’t simply advocates for a cause that requires them to cherrypick information as they see fit (he is a lawyer by training after all). Yet GG’s desire to sensationalize and paint the entire traditional media establishment in a negative light, by default, implies that these individuals are part of the problem.
Glenn is not the first to make such claims either. I could probably find 100 examples in the last week of far left and far right news sources/blogs ripping the “corporate/elite/establishment media” or “mainstream/lamestream/liberal” media (respectively). It is a tired cliche that doesn’t have to be backed with any actual evidence. It’s code word to readers that their site is where to get the “real news”! Now you can make a completely legitimate argument that cable news shows like CNN/MSNBC/Fox News are entertainment-based and/or partisan bullshit. That is supported by fact. But GG’s assertions are never so focused or backed by evidence. I see his claims as a tactic to deflect criticism and from reading GG, it is clear that the people who question him or disagree with his viewpoints are usually the ones labeled shills or receive a damning rant on their supposed intentions.
I think there are many outlets that ‘take on’ the establishment, but very few without a specifically right or left wing agenda. I feel this colors their outlook. often quite horribly.
Now, critics of Glenn’s accuse him of having an agenda, also, usually that he’s self-important, but running really running the whole gamut from communist to “bourgeois imperialist. I can’t say I agree with any of the criticisms, but I do like to see him (like I like to see all ‘authorities’) questioned in good faith. Relentless disparaging and insinuations about his motives – note please that I’m not saying you, Nate, are doing this – seems suspiciously gratuitous to me. If Glenn is so disappointing to some readers, it is odd they would return to the offensiveness to continuously disparage it. I don’t go to Fox or MSNBC to keep pointing out what morons they are, and I don’t have to re-visit Glenn Beck’s idiotic vomit to know and proclaim he’s still a huckster. I deliberately avoid places that offend me, to be quite frank, for their partisanship in my view disqualifies them from true reason .
I short, I appreciate not just his vigorous and engaging writing style and moral tone, but also his lack of partisanship, for it is rare. I hope indeed that it is an Intercept trend. I honestly don’t see that Glenn doesn’t provide evidence, as you claim, but I can’t say I’ve researched every subject he covers to the last detail myself, and I admit to going somewhat on gut-feelings where technical details seem to mystify.
Glenn Greenwald has written and posted dozens and dozens and scores of blog posts, articles, book segments that very, very, very specifically focus on and back whatever media individual or media organization he is writing about in any of the aforementioned numerous writings I’ve referenced.
All you do with rants such as what you’ve posted above is show your ignorance about Greenwald’s record, and your irrational opinion based on that ignorance.
NSA Knew About Heartbleed for 2 Years
{Quote: “The U.S. National Security Agency knew for at least two years about a flaw in the way that many websites send sensitive information, now dubbed the Heartbleed bug, and regularly used it to gather critical intelligence, two people familiar with the matter said.” End Quote}
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers.html
To: The Intercept/Entercrypt: You should be reporting on this story and many more. You are losing credibility (even amongst the tribalistic natives deep within this Internet Jungle)
Has to be an organized blackout. If I got a “news” startup going and discovered that the entire staff was slacking for upwards of two weeks, I’d can the lot of them.
I would never belong to a tribe that would have me as a member. :)
Glennboticus kissassicus.
The initial culprit – http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/11/heartbleed-developer-error-regrets-oversight – apologizes.
Good article. Error-prone Programmer Seggelmann still posits a strong, valid argument for the continuation of open source programming. I fully agree.
That’s unbelievably amoral. Basically, they let a huge security hole remain out there, in order to maintain their advantage and power, even though it could’ve been exploited by cyber-criminals and every government in the world. Any ethical hacker would’ve immediately reported the security hole. For f’s sake, even the FBI’s website reportedly had the Heartbleed bug.
I agree, exploiting those vulnerabilities against US citizens defies all logical sense, moralistic or otherwise.
{Quote__”Following the leaks about NSA’s electronic spying, President Barack Obama convened a panel to review the country’s surveillance activities and suggest reforms. Among the dozens of changes put forward was a recommendation that the NSA quickly move to fix software flaws rather that exploit them, and that they be used only in “rare instances” and for short periods of time.”__End Quote}
Here is a camera phone video taken by @Mlsif. Not very good quality but okay for a start.
(h/t Pedinska for posting the previous tweets @Mlsif)
http://qik.com/video/61207841
Why didn’t they already “come?” Why didn’t they report some of the “most significant” stories sooner? Or is he just taking cover because not only has nothing come of the Snowden shit, things have become worse?
It’s a problem when the blogger decides what we are allowed to have access to — and when.
Again a chance to ask: If some of the most significant ones are to come why have they been put back over the ones already reported on. How are these decisions made. Shouldn’t the order be most significant first?
And,
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/journalist-nsa-wont-give-me-a-secure-channel-to-communicate-on/
If that quote is true, then Glenn Greenwald just lost about 90% of his credibility with me.
99% of people who go from being employees, to employers, fail because they simply do not know how to change hats, and shift gears.
Your quote just outlined what the problem is. If they do not get someone who knows how to do long term thinking and strategic planning, The Intercept will end up just like Breitbarts organization did when he prematurely checked out.
I’m not sure that this quote represents what has been going on longterm, but rather a sentiment that they may have harbored once the decision to come back to the US was made. If one takes into account the context of the quote – today’s award ceremony and the concerns about traveling to the US to accept it – then I don’t think it reflects at all on your expressed concerns (which are not trivial either).
Obviously, plans were in the works prior to the story of the creation of The Intercept got leaked. And obviously there was long term thinking happening wrt hiring etc. I agree there is a major shift involved in going from employee to employer and it remains to be seen how well that happens here. I think your concerns are not unfounded, but I do think that there are trajectories involved in all of this that we are also not privy to that might be mitigating in nature.
As for credibility, I’ve been a reader since 2005. That’s a lot of credibility built over time, so maybe that’s what makes me a bit slower off the mark in summoning up the gallows and/or firing squads. ;-}
“As for credibility, I’ve been a reader since 2005.”
Must suck to be you. Reading since 2005 with no substantive changes.
If anything, that speaks against his credibility. What’s changed since 2005? Except for shit getting worse, I mean.
Doesn’t suck to be me at all. I felt lucky at the time to have found someone who – while very human and prone to all sorts of social faux pas (according to almost everyone who’s ever had a bone to pick with him) – wrote clearly and documented his conclusions and applied his criteria with a pretty even hand, whether I agreed with him or not. It was a rare combination to find on the toobz back then.
What’s changed since 2005?
When was the last time that an obscure blogger and an unsung producer of documentaries combined with a non-high school graduate to force multiple governments around the world to deal with increased scrutiny of their secret practices?
I agree that’s not enough and that concrete changes will be difficult to force through, if they happen at all. But there will be even less opportunity for changes if people aren’t paying attention. These stories have brought more attention to bear than any others in my lifetime, but perhaps you’re older than me and have other, more successful incidents in mind you can point me to.
What sort of miracles are you expecting? Any modicum of familiarity with history tells you that change takes enormous amounts of time and effort. It’s measured most often in rather small increments. Once in a great while things will change very quickly, but that’s usually due to a building of circumstances that finally reaches critical mass and explodes. People can differ over what they might find to be most effective, but it’s really short-sighted to let those differences obscure – or even destroy – the incremental bits as they occur
Except for shit getting worse, I mean.
Or maybe you don’t want anything to change, or are bitter because you made – or are making – efforts toward same that remain unacknowledged. I think there’s a bit of that going around the web as well.
Critique is good. It’s necessary because no one knows what will be successful. But the question that really puzzles me is why do some people, who claim to want the government brought to justice, pursue a course designed to destroy something that is making progress of any kind, if not exactly at the pace desired?
Glenn and Laura are bein given Polk Awards tonight in New York City:
http://www.huffpost.com/us/entry/5133584/
Because the ACLU just drops in on folks at airports for the helluvit.
Airport Congeniality Likeability Union
American Civil Liberties Union works fine for me. But forcing governmental congeniality is a pretty good side effect. ;-}
I’m getting hungry for the next article/revelation. I don’t care if it’s from Glenn or someone else, you guys need to post something new more than every 10 days!
… nsa pleased: announces record stasi rat litter production this morning … usg declares …
BREAKING NEWS September 11, 2021
Al-Qaeda Converts Exceptional Society Into Stasi Rodent Nest Before Noon, Wins.
By S. R. Kershaw, New York Correspondent
Update: The decision to delay this announcement for twenty years was made by our really, really, really intelligent editorial staff here at the Grey Thing, which prudently verified the condition was not temporary, by allowing the requisite time to pass. And we all thought it would be cool to bundle it with the gwot redo story.
… usg declares gwot do-over … nsa pleased: announces record stasi rat litter production thi …
The U.S. can justify anything they do now. That’s what happens when you allow them to pay others to do they’re dirty work. We can’t torture but Egypt can. We can’t shoot up this country but Blackwater can. We can’t propagandize on American soil but Stratfor can.
The problem can’t be fixed because the political elements of this country which the citizens have access to and the power to influence democratically no longer have any real power.
I have seen propaganda at work in the comments sections of sites like CNN. There have been times when you can feel the vibe take over their board as “Down votes” start coming in bunches within seconds of a comment being posted that is critical of the military industrial complex. You can also find “Replies” one after the other up and down the board that read like prefabricated boiler plate cheerleading.
What they are doing is trying to prop up their own propaganda to give the people a false sense that the viewpoints and coverage the mainstream news networks provide are meaningful and debatable.
For instance, no one actually cares about Julian Assange’s Swedish sexual allegations. Common sense tells us that at the very least the incident is related to a disgruntled groupie who he used for sex and then ditched. At the most it’s a plot to extradite him to the U.S. and shut him up. CNN however creates another narrative out of thin air which basically assumes the whole story shows cowardice and hypocrisy accusing Assange of being a megalomaniac who’s trying to save his own skin by hiding from these allegations under the guise of being persecuted by invisible forces.
That narrative, if thought of at all, would certainly not be the predominant way of seeing things yet somehow it’s the main theme of CNN’s reporting and unbelievably it’s relevance is backed up by barrages of comments at times. That is not natural. At best it would be a very fringe way of looking at things that would be dwarfed by other more widely shared debates about Assange and Wikileaks that CNN is happy to ignore.
It also seems unnatural to think that Assange’s stay at the Ecuadorean embassy somehow shows him to be a hypocrite since Correa is “Cracking down on press freedoms”. First of all the notion that he’s cracking down on press freedom is an opinion many do not share including Assange. No mention of that. And secondly Assange is hiding in their embassy from the U.S.. A little perspective please.
That is CNN working to put government propaganda in the publics head and then the propaganda is being made to sound reasonable by fake supportive comments. People read the comments and think “Hmmm, everyone else seems to be buying this so I guess this is a legitimate viewpoint”.
Of course this only means they are government stooges, because no one would ever take risks on behalf of the First Amendment.
Time to move on from the “forced into exile” meme.
I’ll tell you, when they first rolled this out, I was a staunch supporter. Of late, it has fallen flatter than hammered shit.
You have no idea why GG is living in Brazil, do you?
Here’s a clue – his husband, a Brazilian citizen, could not emigrate to the US under the law, so GG chose to stay in Rio and his marriage. He was not there and is not now because he was “forced into exile” for practicing journalism.
It doesn’t matter why he was living there. What we were subjected to by the Glennbots was that he was “forced” to stay there and couldn’t travel back to the U.S. Clearly that was a myth.
The most likely scenario is that the USG doesn’t give two shits about him. Not that he was “putting his life in his hands coming back” or that “he’s a martyr for the First Amendment.” But that nobody gave a shit.
Tool of imperialism. Not a threat. Put it any way you like, but the bottom line is there was no “forced exile.”
Sorry, I’m not referring to the relationship thing. I’m referring to his supposed inability to travel due to it being a threat to his life or whatever. Shit, you can read those comments in this thread. “It’s too risky.” “He shouldn’t chance it.” “Best not to come here.”
Ridiculous.
And clearly used to hype the Snowden shit. Let’s face it, the “revelations” have dried up faster than tofu sitting out overnight.
Will anyone ever write for this website again?
Heartbleed has been around since New Year’s Eve 2011.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/11/heartbleed-developer-error-regrets-oversight
And Bruce Schneier on Heartbleed – (good links embedded in his blog)
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/04/heartbleed.html
Every Time I See USAID I THINK “Pando Exposé: Glenn Greenwald’s Boss, Billionaire Omidyar, Co-Funded Ukraine Revolution Groups with US Government – See more at: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/03/01/pando-expose-glenn-greenwalds-boss-billionaire-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government/#sthash.cMZDL7J9.dpuf
Is it true that Omidy and Greeny had a huge blow-up with Scahill, because Scahill is perpetually off selling his books and not contributing, and because Jeremy linked Omidyar to internal political ops at Intercept, when Greeny said he wasn’t involved? The first crack in the paradise machine, perhaps?
Scahill’s been off his twitter since two days after Ames’ piece on Omidyar’s imperialist adventurism in Ukraine.
Scahill’s an imperialist stooge anyway, not worth the pixels in his name. And apparently afraid of antiwar nuns. What a coward.
http://rt.com/op-edge/mother-agnes-liberal-interventionists-026/
This ongoing assertion attempting to link Omidyar, Soros, and others directly to regime change has thus far not been supported by credible evidence. I’ve read the Pando article and associated documents and many others and the credibility simply isn’t there.
It’s not unlike asserting that because a parent gives their children money because they believe in that child’s efforts, but then the child either misspends or missuses the funds, that the parent is therefore culpable for the child’s actions. But even this type of relationship has not been proved to exist with this regime-change assertion.
Omiyar’s, Soros, and others intentions aside – until there is proof that this is actually occurring, it’s simply a straw-man argument, with nothing of substance to really back it up – or a red herring argument in order to sidetrack other issues.
Here’s some evidence for you – from the horse’s mouth.
http://www.omidyar.com/about_us/news/2011/09/15/omidyar-network-supports-technology-centered-organizations-seeking-empower-
@sheer: That’s not evidence of Omidyar’s intentions. What is the evidence that he knew what USAID is up to around the world, as opposed to believing its ostensible purpose?
That’s not evidence, that’s inference, and flimsy inference at that.
This proves what was said by me precisely. No substance to show that “this” equals “that.”
An article of Cultural Production of Ignorance:
http://truth-out.org/news/item/23033-cultural-production-of-ignorance-provides-rich-field-for-study
jose said: “That’s not evidence of Omidyar’s intentions. What is the evidence that he knew what USAID is up to around the world, as opposed to believing its ostensible purpose?”
Why doesn’t he then? Most awake people know that USAID fronts for the CIA. Put the recent CIA activities in Ukraine alongside the last ten years of US meddling in Eastern Europe, constantly making subtle and overt threats to establish missile sites aimed at Russia. Not warlike at all, right?
Funny how you and others support US antagonism towards Russia while criticizing it elsewhere in the world – maybe only Muslims and brown people are eligible to be free from US aggression in your world view. If that is the case you are unwittingly supporting US moves that will ultimately exacerbate global stresses and will result in global war. The partners in war will be a powerful coalition of China and other Asian countries, possibly including India, with Russia and the Central Asian countries plus minimally Iran in the ME. The coalition may include North Africa as well. Europe will be surrounded. And nuclear weapons will strike North America.
This can take place only with the help of the continued ignorance and apathy of the American people
~~~
Sillyputty, the US War Machine, in its quest for empire and absolute control, is the biggest progenitor of ignorance, cultural and otherwise. And USAID is just one of its arms, using NGOs to promote ersatz democracy concurrent with spreading disinformation.
That article you link to covers a big subject in a very small space, and therefore doesn’t go into any subject it touches on in depth. But it appears to me to be an exercise in propagandizing under the Democrat Banner, just as bad as doing the same under the Republican Banner, in my view.
Gimme something beyond Democrat/Republican, beyond left/right. It’s past time we understand we are ONE people trying to tame a rogue government. To keep on allowing that government to divide and conquer us is to succumb to tyranny before even knowing it’s at our doorstep.
LOL @ “paradise machine.”
Cracks in the gatekeepers’ chain link fence.
Are you looking for dirt for your little soap opera? How pathetic. I’m sure if you keep up your sad little crusade someone will notice and tell you what a great investigative journalist you are. You three should go into pro wrestling. Nice tag team!
Leftist writers have been reporting on Scahill being a gatekeeper and shitstain on anti-imperialism long before he was working for Omidyar. It takes 5 seconds to look it up.
Ame’s second piece on USAID is also a great read.
Since you raise this particularly stupid smear, perhaps you should provide evidence that buttresses your contention. Scahill is one of the few brave journalists who has reported from war zones far from the protections afforded the subservient lapdog (redundancy is fun) media. His reporting on war crimes perpetrated by the criminal tax payer funded mercenary group Blackwater (or whatever they are calling themselves these days) as well as those by Bush and Obama are second to none.
LOL.
I linked to one example. There are also critiques of his film and his methods. Sorry you didn’t get the memo but some of us did.
Oh, there were critiques… wow, that is damning. You have failed, try again.
Doug, I don’t know if what you say about Scahill is true or not. I’ll know in time, no doubt. But regarding GG being involved in international political ops – the Omidyar Group made that donation well before there was any contact between himself and Omidyar. And anyway, Omidyar had proudly announced it back in 2011, so why are you suggesting it was all secretively done?
Further, GG said the following in his response to Ames’ breaking news:
I agree with him. There should an investigation into how the billionaires decide what and where they invest their money; how they make their money work to realize their ideals. That job seems to me to be right up your alley. I urge you to take it on. It’s in keeping with your sense of honor, for which I have great admiration; a sense of honor you betray when you find it worthy to snipe at Greenwald, et al. You’re better than that, much, much better!
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/01/journalistic-independence
You might read this to glean a balance in viewpoint. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/01/journalistic-independence/#comment-6782
Towards the bottom of the comment section you’ll find GG’s comment as to what he considers a source of Mark Ames (blatantly biased [my words solely]) article, one that changed significantly from first publication to final edition, all without referencing those changes. Incidentally, Ames began charging GG and Omidyar with ignoring the serious allegations he was making because they had not responded to his claims a mere three to four hours after he first published his story – in the middle of the night. I don’t regard that as responsible journalism. I hope you don’t either.
Here’s GG’s comment:
Link # 1 – http://www.thenation.com/blog/156700/apology-john-tyner
Link # 2 – http://www.thenation.com/article/156679/response-glenn-greenwald
You might read this to glean a balance in viewpoint. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/01/journalistic-independence/#comment-6782 And do follow the links provided for the relevant back story.
GG’s comment is on what he considers a source of Mark Ames’ (blatantly biased [my words]) article, one that changed significantly from first publication to the edition of the following morning, all without referencing those changes. Incidentally, Ames began charging GG and Omidyar with ignoring the serious allegations he was making because they had not responded to his claims a mere three or four hours after he first published his story – in the middle of the night.
Ames’ recent article on USAID.
http://pando.com/2014/04/08/the-murderous-history-of-usaid-the-us-government-agency-behind-cubas-fake-twitter-clone/
This script was written by John le Carre. Is Snowden the spy left out in the cold? I don’t think Glenn Greenwald would do this kind of thing.
In another post on this thread, I argued that the “Omydar [Network] plays a similar role to that of George Soros, whose Open Society Foundations uses the cloak of liberal radicalism to advance a neoliberal agenda of capital driven modernity.”
“As a philanthropic investment firm, we make both investments and grants, identifying likeminded organizations that we support, help scale, and collaborate with to help realize their full potential. Our efforts are organized around two investment initiatives?Access to Capital, and Media, Markets and Transparency.
Through Access to Capital, we work to create economic opportunity for people in emerging markets. By opening new doors to financial services and property rights, we’re helping to foster entrepreneurial behavior, economic activity, and job creation. Specifically, we focus on microfinance, small-to-medium enterprise, emerging market ventures, and property rights. Within microfinance, we seek to extend access to high-quality, affordable financial services to the poor.” – Pam Omydar
“Investment is key to the new model: instead of simply giving money to accelerate social good, Omidyar Network behaves like a venture capital firm, investing in global businesses whose result is public good.”
http://entrepreneurshipofallkinds.org/2013/03/18/a-profile-of-omidyar-network/
We invest in for-profit entities through our LLC. Inspired by the social impact of eBay, we believe that business can create extraordinary opportunity and value, and that market-based solutions can generate significant social returns. – Pierre Omydar
http://www.omidyar.com/about_us/financials
Soros Economic Development Fund, Omidyar Network and Google.org Launch $17m Small to Medium Enterprise Investment Company for India (February 2008)
http://www.microcapital.org/press-release-soros-economic-development-fund-omidyar-network-and-googleorg-launch-17m-small-to-medium-enterprise-investment-company-for-india/
“It was activists from the Soros-financed Splina Sprava who stormed the Justice Ministry in Kiev in January after President Yanukovych indicated that he preferred an alliance with Russia to closer links with the European Union. His announcement sent Soros and the Eurocrats into a spin. Even now, Soros is calling for a European Union ‘Marshall Plan’ for Ukraine.”
http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/index.php/2014mar14soros-behind-ukrainian-uprising/
Microfinance Misses Its Mark: Failures of Microfinance
http://www.ssireview.org/articles/entry/microfinance_misses_its_mark/
Return of a Private Foundation (Omydar Network)
Federal Income Tax Form 990-PF
Note1: George Soros and Google Inc. are listed as subscribers to the Omydar Network Fund
Note 2: This return includes a complete list of Grants made by the Omydar Network Between Jan 2011 and Dec 2012 including that made to Oleh Rybachuk NGO, Center UA.
http://www.omidyar.com/sites/default/files/file/ON%20990-PF%202011.pdf
Center UA – Stated objectives:
The objectives of the organization is to promote civic initiatives aimed at strengthening the influence of civil society on the government; to promote projects in various sectors, aimed at the development and preservation of democratic processes in Ukraine; to develop projects concerning European and Euro-Atlantic integration of Ukraine; to create permanent discussion platform for representatives of civil society and government.
http://uacentre.org.ua/en/about/
KYIV — A Ukrainian nongovernmental organization says the country’s Interior Ministry has opened a criminal case against the group, accusing it of money laundering.
Center UA, which describes itself as an “active participant” in the ongoing antigovernment protests in Kyiv, said on February 8 that police last week questioned at least 10 people affiliated with the organization.
Oleh Rybachuk, the head of the organization, condemned the probe as “the continuation of systematic repression of authorities against civil society” in Ukraine.
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-ngo-criminal-probe/25258005.html
According to the leaked papers, a network of interlocking NGOs– Chesno (Honestly), Center UA and Stop Censorship, to name a few – were growing in influence in Ukraine by “targeting pro-Yanukovych politicians with a well-coordinated anti-corruption campaign that built its strength in Ukraine’s regions, before massing in Kiev last autumn.”
The fundraising papers show that from October 2011 to December 2012 USAID provided Chesno with a hefty sum of over $421,000, while also planting nine of Center UA experts on its staff whose duty it was to manage the NGO’s affairs on the regional level, coordinate its efforts, provide photo and video coverage, as well as creative input.
Hence, it may well be that the activities of Chesno, which bills itself as a civil watchdog movement bent on “filtering the power,” received a large percentage of funds from American taxpayers under the watchful eye of the US Agency for International Development.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_03/USAID-got-Maidan-coup-up-and-running-media-6362/
These two pieces emerged in the last two days in the guardian, BBC online news and reported on the BBC 1 o’clock TV news. They were not discussed here wonder if you are all aware of these..
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/08/david-cameron-welcomes-all-clear-spy-agencies-surveillance-watchdog-anthony-may
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26936116
This range of time is a unique period in dark occult practice: the Season of Sacrifice spans 40 days annually between March 22 and May 1. Some notable events: invasion of Iraq, March 20; Fort Hood, April 2; Virginia Tech, April 16; OKC, April 19; Battles of Lexington and Concord, April 19; Columbine (the goddess Columbia (aka Venus, Lucifer, Semiramis)), April 20.
September?
9/11 was a human sacrifice ritual. In the magick the Solomon Bros. bldg. represented the central pillar in the First Degree tracing board (where the larger twins represented Jachin and Boaz). They were the 3 paths on the qabbalistic tree–brought down into their base.
What the practitioners of the ritual also believe is that the center of higher knowledge is represented by the pentagon.
In part, also, it was intended to gauge the public’s reaction.
The numerology of 9/11 too is significant to the people who did this. 9 is a culmination point, also know in satanism as the most selfish number. The practitioners associate 1 (or 1 + 0) with the Creator. By using 11, they think they’re leaping beyond.
Susan Lindauer
Are you just name dropping now?
I like the 1+0 bit. it made me smile. My fault for mentioning a future month. I find occult stuff a bit far fetched as do some of Susan Lindauers statements.
If they could have invaded Iraq earlier no Sacrifice calendar would have stopped them.. Same goes if it was postponed for political reasons, would it have changed in it’s sacrificial nature? It is true however that many things have happened between the two dates you mentioned that can be related to sacrifice.
Italian Nun The Voice Italy – Suor Cristina
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmoujQrEGOI
http://freemantv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/The-Voice-Talpa-Occult.jpg
You believe this stuff!?!?! What does it prove? What relevance does it have? NONE!
It doesn’t matter if I believe it or not, your leaders do.
It hardly matters if they do. It doesn’t justify their actions and it doesn’t come anywhere near to making an argument for the US to change the focus of its behavior to one based in high ethical standard for itself and humanity. No, your insistence that ancient religious rituals are pertinent to our situation just makes dissidence look crazy and laughable.
That necessarily leads me to question what is your intent?
Isn’t that the way the progressive left commonly greets dissent? Or truth? With giggles?
Whose fault is that? The dissident’s?
Dear Zelda,
Hello. It’s me again. Just checking in.
I must say I am beginning to be disappointed.
I had high hopes for The Intercept when it first began.
It rolled out two months ago, and frankly Zelda, my hopes are fading fast.
Come now Zelda, as you must know, this is the Communication Age, the Internet Age.
Newspapers are no longer the medium of choice, it is the electronic medium that prevails.
Even the NSA is cognizant of that.
It matters not that folks are traveling hither and yon.
Articles can be posted with the click of a button.
The ball is in your court Zelda, wake up and write something. Anything. Even a bad recipe………..
Truly,
Forsaken In the Hinterlands.
You’re expecting them to change the world in a day. Give them time to set up a web site right.
Funny.
Further than that, hilarious.
Isn’t that the same thing that Barry Obama said?
Isn’t that the same thing that Kathleen Sybellius said?
About their failed website?
If I were an investor, I would be starting to worry about content, and ROI.
Don’t read me wrong. I am not some “plant” or “agent provocateur” or some “sleeper cell” just sitting here waiting to sow dissent at the right time as some of the crazier psychopants here will certainly claim.
I wholeheartedly support Greenwald, and I admire Snowden for doing the right thing, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to delivery. I understand marketing, and when any new product launch fails, the chances of getting it right the second time are slim to none.
It’s probably an organized halt to the work. It can’t be a coincidence that every member of the Omidyar 15 has nothing to say for weeks on end. But so much for “transparency.” If you’re going to stop reporting, then let people know.
I think they probably found that reporting the truth is harder than they thought.
As you peel away the layers of deceit, you find new layers of deceit. Once those are all peeled away, you are left not with the truth, but with nothing. Hence they have no stories to publish.
Peaceful and safe travels to ALL staff members at the The Intercept.
Your courage is greatly appreciated.
A German newspaper “Die Süddeutsche” writes that Edward Snowden is not allowed to come to Berlin because the Spaniards and the Italians are not interested in his stories. At least they are the best for party time ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwOg1giwefU
I see from an earlier comment that Obama is still having problems with journalists who openly defy him by proposing to travel to the United States. I have often advised that threatening journalists is not enough – you need a big stick; some laws with real teeth. The Americans continually whine about how their First Amendment won’t let them do this. But my answer was always the same – you don’t have to regulate what a journalist can say, you just have to regulate who can be a journalist.
My Press Laws in 1925 required that all journalists be patriots. Anyone criticizing the government or indeed expressing any sort of negative sentiments, was obviously not a patriot, and therefore guilty. The US has finally introduced a Media Shield bill (to shield the media from real journalism), to regulate who is allowed to be a journalist. Obama as usual has dawdled and the bill isn’t yet passed into law.
So these journalists may very well slip through his fingers; he has only himself to blame.
“you don’t have to regulate what a journalist can say, you just have to regulate who can be a journalist.”
The private market is dealing with that now….
“Anyone criticizing the government or indeed expressing any sort of negative sentiments, was obviously not a patriot, and therefore guilty.”
So says Senator Feinsten, et .al….
“The US has finally introduced a Media Shield bill (to shield the media from real journalism), to regulate who is allowed to be a journalist.”
Phew! Sometimes you just don’t realize how much help you need as a citizen to decide what you should be able to read, hear, or say…I’m glad the US is finally getting around to closing this glaring loophole in our personal freedoms.
As a civilized society, we just cannot allow the unbridled influencing of sanctioned media by such things as facts, different viewpoints, or other unapproved messages.
““Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.”
[Special Message to the Congress on the Internal Security of the United States, August 8, 1950]”
~ Harry S. Truman
As long as the private market remains private, authentic media like Infowars, Daily Caller, Breitbart, The Blaze, We Are Change, Hagmann and Hagmann, aggregators like Drudge, are enabled, thrive and grow.
MSNBC, meanwhile received gov’t Stimulus money.
Oh, you mean the right wing propaganda posers at the places you just named? These people are nearly always wrong about everything, and never issue retractions when they are proven to be full of shit. Right, them. MSNBC is no great media outlet, they are just another corporate outlet that happens to get shit right once in a while as long as it is not too bad for Obama, but they are in a different universe than those tools at Brietbart etc. At least they do not lie all day long. They just fail to cover some stories that they should.
What were they wrong about? I’m not saying they are not wrong on occasion, but why don’t you tell us where. Give us an example.
A hint for you…. if their lips are moving, they are lying. You are most welcome. Glad I could help you in some small way.
Rev Communete wrote:
“Curious, I’ve made no reference to right or left wing, but John has declared authentic media as right wing, then you proceed to reinforce his branding of it as a statement of import. But nowhere have either of you identified a flaw in their reasoning or reporting.”
I cannot waste my precious time poisoning my thoughts with the pure ignorance and stupidity of the right wing tools you have mentioned… I also have a very difficult time listening to the lapdogs of the so called main stream media, but if you want to research your heroes, this is not a bad place to start… just type your favorite into the search bar… more Stupid than you can eat.. in what for you constitutes authentic media narrative:
http://www.mediamatters.org/
More importantly than “what were they wrong about” might be located in the first sentence (from John Kelly). How to you feel about that assertion? “Right wing propaganda?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxA2O-tHftI
Curious, I’ve made no reference to right or left wing, but John has declared authentic media as right wing, then you proceed to reinforce his branding of it as a statement of import. But nowhere have either of you identified a flaw in their reasoning or reporting.
Now’s your chance to make a reference. Don’t forget the propaganda.. Then I’ll prop you up. Suffice to say they were not right about everything
Which “authentic” right wing media has John declared left wing?
Red bull gives you wings
Sorry I read “proceed to reinforce his branding of it as a statement of import” as prop up. And “identified a flaw in their reasoning or reporting” as never been wrong about anything. Must be too early
“you don’t have to regulate what a journalist can say, you just have to regulate who can be a journalist.” – Benito Mussolini
“The private market is dealing with that now….” – SillyPutty
Can you substantiate this assertion?
– Wilhelmina
Sure, from a July 27, 2012 Salon article by Glenn Greenwald:
“A common criticism of establishment journalists entails comparing them to stenographers, on the ground that most of them do little more than mindlessly write down and uncritically repeat what government officials say. But stenography is a noble and important profession: they’re the court-licensed officers who, with astonishing speed and accuracy, transcribe the statements of all witnesses, lawyers and judges in judicial proceedings. If establishment journalists were to replicate actual stenography, it would be an improvement on most of the work they produce.
A confession in yesterday’s New York Times reveals that even the stenography produced by our nation’s most esteemed media outlets is anything but accurate: rather, it’s contrived and distorted by the very people whom these media outlets purport to cover adversarially. The article describes how many American media outlets, including the NYT, give veto power to the Obama campaign (and, less so, to the Romney campaign), as well as political offices generally, over the quotes of its officials that are allowed to be published:
The quotations come back redacted, stripped of colorful metaphors, colloquial language and anything even mildly provocative.
They are sent by e-mail from the Obama headquarters in Chicago to reporters who have interviewed campaign officials under one major condition: the press office has veto power over what statements can be quoted and attributed by name.
Most reporters, desperate to pick the brains of the president’s top strategists, grudgingly agree. After the interviews, they review their notes, check their tape recorders and send in the juiciest sound bites for review.
The verdict from the campaign — an operation that prides itself on staying consistently on script — is often no, Barack Obama does not approve this message. . . .
Quote approval is standard practice for the Obama campaign, used by many top strategists and almost all midlevel aides in Chicago and at the White House — almost anyone other than spokesmen who are paid to be quoted. (And sometimes it applies even to them.) It is also commonplace throughout Washington and on the campaign trail.
The Romney campaign insists that journalists interviewing any of Mitt Romney’s five sons agree to use only quotations that are approved by the press office. And Romney advisers almost always require that reporters ask them for the green light on anything from a conversation that they would like to include in an article.
From Capitol Hill to the Treasury Department, interviews granted only with quote approval have become the default position.
________________________________________
________________________________________
I genuinely do not understand how any self-respecting journalist could even consider agreeing to this. But they do, so much so that it is now widespread custom. I don’t primarily blame the Obama campaign or other politicians for this: it’s natural that they would want to manipulate the American media as much as possible for their own interests and use every instrument, no matter how journalistically unethical, to achieve that. But its extreme use now is reflective of the general fixation which the Obama administration has on secrecy and controlling the flow of information, as the NYT notes:
Reporters who have covered the Obama presidency say the quote-approval process fits a pattern by this White House of finding new ways to limit its exposure in the news media. . . . Under President Obama, the insistence on blanket anonymity has grown to new levels.
The White House’s latest innovation is a variation of the background briefing called the “deep-background briefing,” which it holds for groups of reporters, sometimes several dozen at a time. Reporters may paraphrase what senior administration officials say, but they are forbidden to put anything in quotation marks or identify the speakers.
The White House held such a briefing after the Supreme Court’s health care ruling last month with officials including Mr. Plouffe, Mr. Carney and Dan Pfeiffer, the communications director. But when reporters asked to quote part of the conversation, even anonymously, they were told no. Even the spokesmen were off limits.
Esquire‘s Charles Pierce, who has justifiably become a beloved writer among Democratic Party commentators for his scathing, incisive attacks on the American Right (his equally scathing, incisive attacks on the Obama administration are typically ignored by them), yesterday noted the revelations that the FDA spied on the digital communications of its whistleblowing scientists and wrote:
“Outside of its embracing of some — but not all, god knows — of the Bush gang’s more outre interpretations of the president’s national-security powers, the one thing that could cause me to vote this fall for Dr. Jill Stein, my old fellow fencing parent, is the Obama administration’s apparent mania for tracing down leaks, and the administration’s increasingly clumsy attempts to explain why they’re engaging in formalized Egil Krogh-isms when they get caught out. There is simply no excuse for the continuing treatment of Bradley Manning. Their attitude toward the reporter-source relationship in certain areas is downright alarming. . . . Science dies without the free flow of information. The same can be said of democracy.”
It is beyond dispute that President Obama and his aides have an extreme, even unprecedented obsession with concealing embarrassing information, controlling the flow of information, and punishing anyone who stands in the way. But, at least theoretically speaking, it is the job of journalists to impede that effort, not to serve and enable it. Agreeing to grant veto power over quotes — whereby officials can literally alter what they actually said, and then have newspapers report the doctored, inaccurate quotes — is about as journalistically subservient and reckless as it gets. It’s not merely stenography: it’s inept stenography. No actual, ethical stenographer would ever agree to that.
The excuse given by journalists for why they agree to this is the same one they haul out every time they try to justify their equally subservient practice of allowing political officials to hide behind a protective wall of anonymity. We have no real choice, they claim, because if we don’t agree to their demands, then they won’t speak to us at all, and it’s better to have anonymous/doctored quotes from them than none at all (the NYT yesterday: reporters agree to quote-approval powers because they are “desperate to pick the brains of the president’s top strategists”; ”It is a double-edged sword for journalists, who are getting the on-the-record quotes they have long asked for, but losing much of the spontaneity and authenticity in their interviews”).
The classic expression of this excuse is found in this article by Nieman Watchdog’s John Hanrahan, which criticized The New York Times‘ Scott Shane for granting anonymity to an Obama official to disgustingly smear the Bureau of Investigative Journalism as Al Qaeda sympathizers for the crime of documenting that civilian drone deaths are much higher than Obama officials claim (I criticized Shane’s anonymity granting when the article was first published). Here is Shane’s excuse for why he decided to grant anonymity to a high-level government official for no purpose other than to smear investigative reporters:
Shane defended the use of the anonymous quotes in the two articles, saying that he and his editors agreed that the quotes were needed to give “some voice from the other side” — that is, the government — in articles reporting allegations of civilian deaths. Until the drone-strike program is made overt and government officials can talk more freely about it, Shane said, “journalists often have a choice of quoting anonymous officials or writing stories about accusations of bad strikes and innocent deaths and including no response at all. I feel it’s important to include some voice from the other side, and my editors have agreed. In addition, it seems to me important to citizens to know what the government says, even if some citizens find the statements unpersuasive or worse.”
[In response, Hanrahan notes: “The problem, though, with the U.S. government as the anonymous ‘voice from the other side,’ is that the real unrepresented ‘voice from the other side’ in the mainstream news media is that of the civilian victims. Their voices and names seldom appear in the mainstream media.”]
This excuse constantly given by journalists — we have to agree to our government source’s demands or else they won’t talk to us — is patently fictitious and, independently, irrelevant. In response to the NYT story yesterday, numerous commentators condemned this practice. Journalism Professor Christopher Daly denounced these quote-approval agreements as “pernicious” censorship and argues that “the journalists should never have agreed to it.” Both Daly and Jeff Jarvis argue that it should never be done, but if it is, at the very least it must be clearly disclosed in each article. The Guardian‘s Europe editor, Ian Traynor, notes that this is standard practice in Germany and warns that it becomes “infectious,” whereby all political officials, high- and mid-level alike, reflexively demand veto power over all quotes. Mother Jones‘ Kevin Drum mocked the journalists’ defense this way: “If they refuse, they won’t have anything to write about? These kinds of campaign stories almost never produce anything of real interest. If reporters were banned from doing them, virtually nothing would be lost. In fact, the quality of campaign reporting might very well go up.”
I agree with all of that, but want to make one other point that has long bothered me about this excuse. It is simply absurd to claim that Obama officials will refuse to speak to, say, The New York Times if its reporters do not agree to these demands. Is the Obama campaign really willing to have one story after the next written about the presidential campaign by The Paper of Record without any input from it, without its side, its messaging, being included? I seriously doubt that. The same is true of the Obama White House.
When Obama officials provide quotes to the NYT about a political controversy, they’re not doing a favor for the newspaper. They’re doing it because it’s in their interests to have the NYT story shaped by what they say. Does anyone believe that if the NYT refuses to give Obama officials veto power over their quotes — or if they refuse to let Obama officials slime and attack people while hiding behind anonymity — that Obama officials will simply cease speaking to the NYT and allow the paper to drive the news cycle without their input? Please.
Independently, if government officials demand unreasonable concessions as a condition for speaking to reporters — concessions that radically skew the practice and purpose of journalism — then of course it is far better for media outlets to refuse those demands and publish stories without quotes from these officials. We would be far better off without anonymous quotes from government officials repeating administration spin or sliming political opponents, and we would also be far better off without doctored quotes based on their veto power over what can be published — even if the price is that we do without their official statements.
In sum, I simply do not believe that these political officials would stop talking to influential media outlets if their obnoxious demands were rejected. I believe journalists agree to this because that’s how they curry favor with government officials who can feed them scoops, and because agreeing to their demands is easier than doing the work of pressuring them to abandon these demands or getting the information some other way. But even if these sources really would refuse to speak to them if their demands were not be met, that would be far preferable to agreeing to these deeply corrupting practices. As New York‘s Joe Coscarelli wrote yesterday: ”Embracing the adversarial nature of the reporter-subject relationship makes everyone’s job harder, but it’s the reader who wins. And isn’t that the idea?”
Yes, that’s the idea in theory, but not in reality. Ultimately, this now-common quote-approval sham vividly illustrates the actual relationship between the media class and the politicians on whom they report. Quote approval is something that publicists and lawyers give to their clients (I promise not to attribute anything to you publicly without your advance consent); in other words, it’s reflective of a relationship between those in a service profession and those who are served. And that explains why establishment journalists provide this service to these political officials: because they serve them as spokespeople, not report on them adversarially.
A very similar controversy arose in 2007 when alleged Journalistic Tough Guy Tim Russert, then Washington Bureau Chief of NBC News, testified at the trial of Lewis Libby and admitted that he treats all conversations with senior government officials as presumptively confidential, even in the absence of an off-the-record agreement. Said Russert, under oath: “when I talk to senior government officials on the phone, it’s my own policy our conversations are confidential. If I want to use anything from that conversation, then I will ask permission.” About that, Dan Froomkin, then at The Washington Post, wrote:
“That’s not reporting, that’s enabling.”
That’s how you treat your friends when you’re having an innocent chat, not the people you’re supposed to be holding accountable.
Many things are “on trial” at the E. Barrett Prettyman federal courthouse right now. . . . the behavior of elite members of Washington’s press corps — sometimes appearing more interested in protecting themselves and their cozy “sources” than in informing the public — is also being exposed for all the world to see.
It was embarrassing enough when establishment journalists were willingly serving as mindless stenographers for the nation’s most powerful political officials (Stephen Colbert, addressing the White House press corps: “Here’s how it works. The President makes decisions. He’s the decider. The press secretary announces those decisions, and you people of the press type those decisions down. Make, announce, type. Just put ‘em through a spell check and go home”). Now they’re not even doing that: they’re allowing the political officials to change the quotes of what they actually said before the quotes are published, all without any disclosure that this is being done.
Calling them “stenographers” is truly an insult to actual stenographers, who would never agree to doctor quotes in order to please those on whom they’re reporting.
Note: Unsure how this will render on this site vis-a-vis HTML. Links to ancillary articles and information are intact in the weblink to the original article below.
Regards, Sillyputty
http://www.salon.com/2012/07/17/inept_stenographers/
Additional substantiation:
http://www.juancole.com/2013/11/censoring-scrutiny-mccauley.html
A .pdf file citing more substantiation:
http://www.pen.org/sites/default/files/Chilling%20Effects_PEN%20American.pdf
For fuck’s sake @Silly … can’t you JUST put in a god damned link instead of cutting and pasting an entire article? Seriously – for as much as you slam others for crapflooding maybe you should take your own fucking advice!
“you don’t have to regulate what a journalist can say, you just have to regulate who can be a journalist.” – Benito Mussolini
“The private market is dealing with that now….” – SillyPutty
Can you substantiate this assertion? – Wilhelmina
Sure, from a July 27, 2012 Salon article by Glenn Greenwald – SillyPutty
This is an opinion piece written by Glenn Greenwald that reflects upon the opinions of other talking heads concerning the “relationship between the media class and the politicians.” Beyond the fact that you have ardently discounted the use of informed opinion as legitimate source of substantiation of ones assertions, there is nothing in this piece that speaks directly to how the “private market is dealing” with the aforementioned relationship.
”
Incorrect. That they can be used is fine. However, that what is provided to substantiate the claim, ipso facto, makes that claim true or credible is another matter altogether.
One can assert anything, opinion or fact. But if not enough, or incorrect, or inconclusive information is used in the assertation, the argument fails to hold up to the initial premise.
Mark Twain, “I wrote you a long letter; I would have written you a shorter letter but I didn’t have the time.”
*Apologies for double post/the html failings
…you have ardently discounted the use of informed opinion as legitimate source of substantiation of ones assertions – Wilhelmina
Incorrect. That they can be used is fine. – SillyPutty
Where does the truth lie:
“This is simply the “informed opinion of an individual.” – Wilhelmina
This confirms that what was provided by you is only an “appeal to authority,” in which the claim is based not on facts, but on what was said by someone. – SillyPutty
One can assert anything, opinion or fact. But if not enough, or incorrect, or inconclusive information is used in the assertation, the argument fails to hold up to the initial premise.
Too many here continually confuse the meaning of the word “truth” with the word “opinion” in the context of what is being discussed here.
From an evidential standpoint, truth is the equivalent to fact, to the extent that we are talking about observable things that, once they have been investigated by several independent methods, are then found to be the same thing each time.
Regards, Sillyputty
http://truth-out.org/news/item/23033-cultural-production-of-ignorance-provides-rich-field-for-study
@sillyputty
Ah, the good old days: those evenings of entertainment aboard the private yachts of the media moguls. The media was almost like family.
But now, the media is becoming leaner and hungrier. They may have been tame, but there was always a wild beast lurking within. The barriers to entry have come down and a host of new media ventures has sprung up, looking to claw their way up the hierarchy. Some are desperate to survive – maybe even desperate enough to start telling the truth.
No, you can’t rely on a complacent media anymore. And honestly, you really never could. There is always some misfit, who doesn’t understand their role, yearning to become the hero. They must be made to pay the consequences for telling the truth. The truth is like a virus; once it begins spreading it becomes a plague, devastating everything in its path. Every political leader in every political system ever devised, is sworn to oppose it.
@sillyputty
I posted this response a while back, but it hasn’t appeared. I may have misspelled my name – typing skills are not my strong suit – and the site software therefore has flagged the post as someone impersonating Benito Mussolini and suppressed it. So here goes again.
Ah, the good old days: those evenings of entertainment aboard the private yachts of the media moguls. The media was almost like family.
But now, the media is becoming leaner and hungrier. They may have been tame, but there was always a wild beast lurking within. The barriers to entry have come down and a host of new media ventures has sprung up, looking to claw their way up the hierarchy. Some are desperate to survive – maybe even desperate enough to start telling the truth.
No, you can’t rely on a complacent media anymore. And honestly, you really never could. There is always some misfit, who doesn’t understand their role, yearning to become the hero. They must be made to pay the consequences for telling the truth. The truth is like a virus; once it begins spreading it becomes a plague, devastating everything in its path. Every political leader in every political system ever devised, is sworn to oppose it.
“The barriers to entry have come down and a host of new media ventures has sprung up, looking to claw their way up the hierarchy. Some are desperate to survive – maybe even desperate enough to start telling the truth.”
Bravo. Well said.
The surveillance/security state in a “democracy” has but one question to answer: How is the bewildered herd of potential voters going to be controlled in the internet age?
Ever hear of Persona Management Software?
http://www.seankerrigan.com/docs/PersonaManagementSoftware.pdf
Ever hear of “Operation Earnest Voice”, or the software company named Ntrepid?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntrepid
Using the above tools in social media, there will always be plenty of “people” making pro-government comments and criticizing those who oppose wars, the security/surveillance state, corporate control of politicians, etc. on the internet.
Steve Quayle is on Jones Show right now:
http://prisonplanet.tv/news/watch_free/free_to_look_audio.php
Will loop after 2:00 PM Central.
Surely there is at least 1 writer at The Intercept (The Entercrypt?) who will start a new article about this important event tomorrow. This should be under the topic NEWS.
Halleluhjah!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYKwqj5QViQ
Mr. Greenwald and Ms. Poitras will be in New York on Friday to accept the Polk Awards
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/glenn-greenwald-return-laura-poitras-snowden_n_5125574.html
Ms. Pedinska posted 1 minute before I did–the TI delay got me, although I reloaded several times. Sorry for the repeat.
No worries Nemo. It happens all the time. I actually figured someone else might have gotten to it prior to me, but posted anyhow. Can’t hurt to have it there more than once! :-)
Wishing Glenn and Laura all the best.
Thanks. I assumed Mr. Greenwald (and Ms. Poitras) had the courage and principle to take this risk. However, as I stated earlier, I did not know if there was time to make the event in Germany and the event in New York the next day. This is extremely important for journalists worldwide.
This is extremely important for journalists worldwide.
It is. And I assume that is why he is doing it.
I suspect that it is also the reason there haven’t been any recent stories from him. International travel can be crazy to prepare for even if you’re only going for personal reasons, let alone professional ones that could result in you not returning home. I hope we get a chance to hear about this directly from Glenn or, as you note, from one of the other writers.
That might be part of the reason, but I’ve read advice about how to deal with ‘Heartbleed” right now includes staying off of the internet. Since Glenn hasn’t even posted a tweet in two days, and since no one at The Intercept has posted an article, I suspect that that has something to do with the silence.
Very excited and interested that Glenn and also Laura Poitras will be appearing in person to receive the Polk.
Since Glenn hasn’t even posted a tweet in two days, and since no one at The Intercept has posted an article, I suspect that that has something to do with the silence.
Could be Kitt. I see he has resumed tweeting, just a little bit ago.
I will be praying for the most benevolent outcome for both Mr. Greenwald and Ms. Poitras.
Thanks for posting.
Sorry if someone’s already posted this, haven’t had time to catch up on comments:
Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras Returning To U.S. For First Time Since Snowden Revelations
Excerpt:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/glenn-greenwald-return-laura-poitras-snowden_n_5125574.html?1397142943
Several of us have been discussing this possibility down thread. I also posted the link about the same time you did but mine has not displayed yet.
Thanks for the link, Pedinska.
I wait with bated breath to see what transpires after they arrive in the US. I would hope (and believe) that there would be a huge outcry if they were detained or harmed in any way, shape or form.
Safety in numbers is certainly one way of looking at it. By the same token it would be bad form for the hosts to celebrate only Greenwald when it was Poitras who was adventurous and journalistic enough to answer Snowden’s appeals.
Then again one has to wonder how much of this is no one pursueth.
I would imagine it’s well planned. I bet they will be met by ACLU lawyers at the airport.
Thank you Pedinska.
Will be praying tomorrow for both of them.
Hm, Congress can’t decide whether this USAID propaganda program is right and proper:
http://news.yahoo.com/senate-committee-orders-review-cuban-twitter-153006106–politics.html
U.S. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen: “This issue we’re debating, Mr. Chairman, is whether or not USAID should be taking steps to promote human rights, the rule of law and democratic governance throughout the world. I say yes.”
I say yes, too – but not at the expense of violating the rule of law, human rights, and democratic governance in the process.
If good intentions must be hidden, then they’ll be criticized, rightfully, as something they are not when they are found out.
Transparency breeds credibility – this subterfuge breeds nothing but distrust and disapproval.
Thanks is due to Benito who raised a stink about the coincidence of disappeared user-names (once, upthread, specifically by name). Mona only confirmed that certain commentators are banned (although she seems to have undercounted). Thanks also to others on the thread who echoed those concerns.
Guidance:
I ran across this: http://bukowski.net/fbi/059.php
It provides insight into how the FBI, our federal government and brothers-in-arms of the NSA these days, views Americans. Notice the attitude. What does it suggest as far as their position? Does it suggest an understanding of their status as employees of the Government of the People of the United States?
Correcting a problem such as corruption requires correcting the underlying attitude which allows for the corruption; especially given the very meaning of the term corruption. Look it up and remind yourself of that meaning. Corruption is no more than forgetting what the purpose of something is – and the result is of course a distortion, or corruption of purpose. Ironic, isn’t it?
Think about the attitude of an FBI field agent, trained to spy on Americans who are actively involved in disseminating their personal opinions in public forums; especially when considered against the activities of corporations who, even in those days, were actively and professionaly pursuing the mass influence of Americans.
This one single document, as an example then, mulitiplied by the time factor and unfathomably vast capability of the FBI through the NSA to gather such detailed information on ALL Americans and to process it by computers trained in the same manner as this field agent, reveals a great deal about what’s really going on with these stories, what the underlying attitude is of those who hold all the secrets, and cards.
What is the underlying attitude? Allow me to suggest a possibility: that the agents, that the managers, that even the directors and politicians are also no more than slaves to a system put in place long ago which has taken on a life of its own; rather like an episode of Star Trek, where a computer designed to take care of a planet’s people enslaves them instead. That they act without will, but rather in response to training and…tradition. When all fails, what do they resort to, the past. What worked. Rather than thinking through the problem. They rely then on the infrastructure, the training, and they resist change. It boils down to laziness. At least, in my mind, based on my observations.
Think about it, ponder the capabilities, the possibilities, the worst case scenarios. Whatever you do though, don’t take anything for granted. Nothing is true that you do not verify for yourself. Even these NSA documents could be fake – you have not seen them, nor are you directly privy to their origin. I’m confident they are real, but only because I thought it through. Maybe I missed something? Perhaps that’s why we should take advantage of boards like this to collaborate, to share our thoughts, to fill in each others’ gaps in knowledge so that we can all come to a common and accurate understanding.
Or maybe I’m just some nutcase who doesn’t know any better and is just trying to be popular…
“This one single document, as an example then, mulitiplied by the time factor and unfathomably vast capability of the FBI through the NSA to gather such detailed information on ALL Americans and to process it by computers trained in the same manner as this field agent, reveals a great deal about what’s really going on with these stories, what the underlying attitude is of those who hold all the secrets, and cards.”
and
“Perhaps that’s why we should take advantage of boards like this to collaborate, to share our thoughts, to fill in each others’ gaps in knowledge so that we can all come to a common and accurate understanding.”
Everyone knows something that someone else does not know. Spread the words…
Thanks Mike.
That’s why I insist that the Global Mesh network be open, unencrypted; except perhaps socially encrypted where necessary – such as encrypting phone numbers with roman numerals, or verifying humanity by asking simple questions.
By the way, such a Global Mesh – a client-based text communication system that uses Wifi infrastructure connected through an open-source firmware or software on our current equipment – can also be upgraded. I picture a dedicated computer in place of the routers, which allows for increased bandwidth, and an upgrade to video messaging. Imagine then, a way to message anyone in the world, and in any combination as who will answer a call to watch, and to be able to interact visibly – to communicate with body language not excluded from the equation to ensure veracity. Imagine the collaborative possibilities. Imagine how important trust would become, how valueable we would see it.
And now imagine if those computers, which would have to be programmed to handle the traffic, would best accomplish this as a daisychain, a single supercomputer. This type of computer already exists, in simple open-source software. We can build such a computer now, and it would belong to us, to the citizens, the people, those who had one of these Mesh network interfaces, which I would suggest we build ourselves and offer for free to those who cannot. We would all be advantaged by the exponentially powerful nature of such a network.
And for those who subscribe to the Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project; here would be your supercomputer capable of handling global resource management; and it would be a computer controlled by whom? Those whom it benefits.
Please understand this about me more than anything else: this is not about me. I am not me, I am us. I think in terms of all who inhabit the planet. I act to benefit myself, but myself includes everyone because I understand that we are interdependent, that we cannot separate ourselves. When I buy ten gallons of gasoline for my car, 2 billion other vehicle owners do the same. When I take a breath, 7 billion others do the same. When I utter a word on a website, some 4 billion do the same. And when I read something on a website, millions, perhaps billions do the same.
I think it would be neat if we were all open and honest with each other in all ways. But, I’m just a nutcase, right?
One problem: these are bad news. Nobody wants to drone away inside futurama, plasticine Arcosanti pooped-out beehives where computers run everything.
Why is socialism’s answer to socialism’s dark sides always just more socialism?
Analysis:
This is propaganda, pure and simple, whether you realize it or not. You are using techniques to force people to agree with you, fallacies of argument which play on human emotion.
“One problem” leads the reader to believe that there are several problems, and that you are somehow an expert. Yet you fail to demonstrate fact, nor establish credibility.
“these are bad news.” You are attempting to assert authority. Let people make their own decisions.
“Nobody wants to” Again, let people draw their own conclusions. The balance of the sentence is your emotional interpretation of the Resource Based Economy as presented in the Zeitgest films. Your emotional reaction to them is irrelevant to the collaborative process as it is a reaction not based in reality, but rather in a paradigm forced onto you by a negligent system.
“Why is socialism….” Again, fallacy. A resource-based economy is not socialism. And there is also the fact that socialism isn’t bad, not in the least. You are actually using Nazi propaganda there to affect the readers. The Nazi’s called themselves socialist to deceive the German people, because Europeans know all too well that Socialism is a far more beneficial economy to the people. Capitalism benefits the capitalists, Socialism benefits society.
Please, think before you commit to documenting your raw thoughts. It doesn’t take but a few minutes to go over your thoughts and consider their effect, consider what would happen if 7 billion people believed them, and acted upon them.
You want to be sure you’re right. Otherwise, you are just making things worse.
It’s called persuasion. I’ve discovered I’m somewhat effective at it.
The Nazis called themselves socialists because that’s precisely what they considered themselves to be and–just as important–that’s who they were trying to attract. Leftists don’t join Tea Party.
Right wingers are turned off by anything with “socialist” in a name. Progressive leftists are attracted to it. Try it out some time.
You can’t simply pawn off yet another socialist movement that embarrass you onto innocent parties as history plays out and socialism’s underbelly is exposed yet again. That’s what their contemporaries in progressive leftism do even to this day, now with Obama, another hard-left progressive.
“It’s called persuasion…”
Yes, you are persueding people to come to your opinion. Your statements do not leave room for anyone to do anything but conform to your opinion; which I might add is not even your opinion, it is your view, if in fact it is even that; most likely, you are simply complying with someone else’s persuasive efforts to force you to adopt their version of reality.
What you are doing here is far more damaging than the work by the NSA. They are merely spying on us, you are actively propagandizing the masses of people who would see your posts as credible because they don’t understand the philosophy of argument, of debate, or even critical thinking and how to discover the truth.
In other words, you are being driven to spread propaganda through psychological techniques which you do not understand. You therefore do not understand the effects of your comments.
Is it your intent to make things worse for everyone around you – which dramatically affects you in the very near and soon-to-be-realized future?
If you don’t like what our governments are doing to us, I suggest that the very first thing we address, is doing what our governments teach us to do to each other.
Think man, that’s all. Just think. Wake up the brain and start it working. That it isn’t, is how you are their slave, how you do their bidding. There are probably hundreds of kids at the NSA revelling in your comments and those of others who troll these forums to seek infamy as the only form of attention you can garner – despite the fact that attention is counterproductive to the human experience.
But hey, if you want the world to come crashing down, you go ahead. I have a plan for surviving beyond anything our governments and we cause. Do you? Or are you going to spend some time deeply regretting your laziness in protecting your own future and your efforts which in fact undermine your own ability to survive.
Good luck. I hope you start to use those brain cells soon.
Are you a cockroach, like Mona?
No. The claim was everyone knows something that someone else does not know.
You did not know what my substantiation is, therefore I know something you do not, ergo, the premise is sound.
Silly, but sound.
Regards, Sillyputty
Everyone knows something that someone else does not know. Spread the words… SillyPutty
Can you substantiate this assertion?
Sure. I just did, if you know what I mean.
Oh, I get it…. we are suppose to read your mind for substantiation!
No. The claim was everyone knows something that someone else does not know.
You did not know what my substantiation is, therefore I know something you do not, ergo, the premise is sound.
Silly, but sound.
Regards, Sillyputty
“No. The claim was everyone knows something that someone else does not know.
You did not know what my substantiation is, therefore I know something you do not, ergo, the premise is sound.”
Oh, now I see…, you are “everyone.” Man, you are dense.
O/T but of current interest: Here you can plug in the URLs of sites you visit to see if they’ve been compromised or not by Heartbleed.
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
Awesome site…seer – thanks!
Glenn; Where are the Blockbusters. The window dressing is nice. When can we rehab the house?
If you want to change things you’d better be a perfect human being. They’ll get you even after you’re dead: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2014/04/14/140414crat_atlarge_heller
Kurt Eichenwald is cute :-)
This is utter bullshit. No free speech not while mona hols the moderation key.
So much fan worship. I told of the false ssl scripts here three weeks ago. JFW was banned. I went on under kelly1880 and told of the third party hacking here and was banned.
Bannedagain spoke of the shit that was here and he was banned. 7 others were banned too.
Who are you going to believe,the god greenwald or an ordinary man speaking from knowledge and truth.
This will take 12 hours to post if it posts at all but it will appear at the intercept as if it appeared when I actually posted it. Lies, damn lies and the intercept.
My reply to Rev has not posted but this one has. How much shit do you people eat before you say you are sated.
Rev was speaking about the man who said cunt cunt cunt cunt etc. london lad, paris hilton’s chicwawa, the great curt (goodkurts) . A first class mind that is hard to find, a treasure.
but first admendment gg banned him. he banned me too.
No writers here to produce an article. Ever get the feeling you have been had?
Mona the moderator on company payroll.
So you cowards at the intercept will not tolerate free speech.
Then who is gg playing for.
My posts disappear (where are they Mona?) and people talk about glitches. The fools, the utter fools that buy into the persona of messiah.
logic tells you I am right, but your desire is for a hero. Fools utter fools to not believe yourselves but you are prepared to believe in a hero.
I keep posting about how Rev is right. London lad, the great curt (sorry the goodkurts) the paris hilton’s chiwawa was banned for saying C**t C**T, CunT. etc.
But mona has no memory. The three posts before this have been moderated to the trash bin.
No free speech here just the greenwald party line.
My posts supporting the rev have not shown. The post mentioned by rev was london lad.
I can not reply to my repliers. This gives a false scene. I can not post with any certainty of being published but I have found a way to hop on to some replies.
GG is not who you think he is.
Any post that could be spun to show me in a bad light is published. And my reply to my detractors are not printed.But all the substantial posts with truth are disappeared.
I can not even reply to those that reply to me. A sham, a false site is the intercept.
Know that 95% of my posts are not shown. Know Mona is the moderator.
Go away. You are drunk
What an informed post. In vino veritas would mean nothing to you of philistine? You know nothing but how to condemn. You are an American.
I am not drunk but I have ammonia flowing through my bloodstream. My fingers are clubbed. I breathe in gasps.I am a dead man walking. The doctors do not know how I can live.My doctors told me I would die Five months ago from my chronic liver failure not from drinking no, but from my chronic hepatitis. My doctor cried and said I would not last the night, when he told me 5 months ago. I am a survivor of Satanic ritual sexual abuse (Shine lawyers Australia said I was was the most damaged person they have represented). My medibank file was 10 inches tall.. They have not seen a file the quarter of its size.
I fear no man.The maximum payout under law for the damages the paedophile clergy that abused me was $75, 000. The court gave me $100,000 dollars, a precedent in Australian legal history.
I have suffered from anxiety and depression for over 40 years. I dont sleep.Now come back and tell me again who I am. Know also that I was oncewas on the ten most dangerous people in the state of Queensland. I am warrior and no man puts his hand on me.
Shine lawyers, by god they are not just lawyers for they have the heart of angles. Their employees are people like Erin Brockovich and other American lawyers who represented Gitmo detainees. Roger Singe and the great Mr B King and Helen were just so good. By god they are the best of the best and they do personal injury cases. If you have been fuck over by the church the state or by any one they will fix it for you for free.
No greater law firm in the world than Shine. (shine was once the attorney general of Queensland.
I kept throwing police around ( I threw them on the ground as my training was in the true open hand school (karate).(Okinawan martial arts refers to the martial arts, such as karate, tegumi and Okinawan kobud?, which originated among the indigenous people of Okinawa Island..)
S***butan was my schooling. I can defeat any man.
. My master was a Grand master of the I****ru) 16th grand master of I***** ninjistu) and because of this I kept on escaping from custody. They always would send the swat team for me. ! am highly trained and in talking to them ( the swat team) they were not bad bastards as the Aussie expression goes. They would bring the swats , three division vans, two local police cars and the dog squad and a helicopter to pick me up. I am 5 foot 8 inches tall and weigh less than 12 stone. ( at 60 years). I do not think they exaggerated my threat.
But I kept escaping from custody , I kept on escaping from mental hospitals.
So Klaus what have you to tell me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shine_Lawyers
Shine Lawyers
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Shine Lawyers Shine Lawyers logo.jpg
Type Public law firm
Traded as ASX: SHJ (Shine Corporate)
Founder(s) Kerry Shine, Simon Morrison & Stephen Roche
Headquarters Brisbane, Queensland
Services Law, Compensation Law, Class Actions, Aviation Law, Environmental Claims, Human Rights, Workplace Claims
Website http://www.shine.com.au
Shine Lawyers is an Australian law firm specializing in personal injury compensation law, operating on a no win no fee basis.[1] The firm is commonly associated with its spokesperson Erin Brockovich.[2][3][4]
Founded in Toowoomba in 1976, the firm is now headquartered in Brisbane, Australia and currently has more than 600 employees based across 41 offices in Queensland, Victoria, New South Wales and Western Australia.[5]
Contents
1 History
2 Acquisitions and mergers
3 Notable class actions
4 Notable employees
5 Notes and references
History
Shine Lawyers was established by Kerry Shine, an Australian Labor Party politician who was member of the Legislative Assembly from 2001 to 2012. It was re-branded Shine Lawyers in 2006, under current managing partners Stephen Roche and Simon Morrison.[6] It was one of the first law firms in the world to list on the ASX, in May 2013.[7][8]
Many of my posts have not posted, many have not appeared here. What a joy it is to live in a land of no free speech. Cheers Mona what a bastion of deception you are here, at the inception of the intercept.
Thanks Mona.. Why do yo not publish the truth Mona.
What you will not admit you work for them.
I see, you see, the truth as Crapflooding.
I pity you.
I see you.
Your ability to post this total bullshit gives proof to the fact that you are a liar. Gee, thanks for your contributions. I guess you are going for the quintessential crap-flooder of all time award?
My liver fibroscope showed 35 K pascals.
Many people die from readings as low as 12.
Please address Shine Lawyers Queensland. I am on their books.
Prove I am a Liar or suffer the contempt of all.
What a fool to not know.
It is true what I have stated.
You are a contemptible prick for saying those that suffer have not suffered.
It is in the Legal books my friend and you are a total fool.
Just look up the case law.
You tool.
Kelly state the lie you so foolishly state
Evidently, Akaaka was not “banned.” Half his gibberish is probably flagged as spam by the WordPress algorithms.
Klaus
I saw a disabled baby with cerebral palsy trying to move and it seemed so funny I thought I would share it with a person like you.
Who else would laugh at such a sight.
Good on you Klaus you have enforced my view of compassionate human beings.
I am not having a go at Germans even though,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0
A liar.
By all means post my lie.
Know I will come back on you coward.
No reply available for the Kelly man still. I will try.
Anglophile is the Irish expression.
Fuck your precepts to convention.
I can say to Kelly that he need only access Shine Lawyers for my story.
He without anything says I am a liar.
What does this say about Kelly.
He is to be pitied as a retard.
Do not seem to be able to reply the liar who says I am a liar.
I have threee close friend that are barristers.
Perhaps they can engage him
Ring Shine Lawyers. Ask for Rodger Singe. He will tell you all.
I am actually Austrian and lived in Australia for about 30 years. Appreciate your desire to share the video but “No thank You”. You have freedom of speech. Perfect freedom of speech. Problem is you are disturbing the free speech on important topics here with irrelevant blabbing. So, simply desist or go away.
Didn’t John Kerry say something just like this piece from Mr. Greenwald? Oh wait, he was saying this was Russia meddling in Ukraine. Well we can’t have that.
Now, for Mona:
And that’s a fucking lie. Many regulars here recall several years ago (somewhere in the range of approx. 2009-2011) on Salon.com when a commentator emerged on the top page to unload a bunch of explicitly racially-charged stuff that Glenn actually not only blotted out, but denounced and distanced the blog from in subsequent posted response.
It was London Lad Goodkurt paris hilton’s chiwawa (I called him the great curt)( he is one of the smartest people on this planet and greenwald banned him for saying CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT. GG said what choice do I have. He had every choice as does he when he bans for the made up crime of crapflooding. One man’s crapflooding is another mans logic.
Free speech can not be curtailed ever. No exceptions except from the bourgeois egotists like Mona the office thief.
Mona you are contemptible for your utter bullshit.
greenwald knew all about vulnerbilities in many internet products but he keep stum after okaying all he publishes with the NSA before publication.
Ever get the feeling you have been had.
Just stick around it is bound to happen.
By the way in greenwalds absence Mona is the moderator of all that is greenwald Kosher.(No jewish belittlement meant)
Mona is an arsehole and she lies every day.
I was banned for suggesting that salon had third party scripts that were hacking the readers. I was true what I said.
Mona said why would they hack you Jim. I said I was a nobody but they hacked me just the same. I won my case against primus.com (AOL) and the federal telecommunications ombusman of Australia said yes jim has the proof.
Greenwald banned me but a federal ombusman found in my favour.
There is shite aplenty happening here at this site.
Greenwald is aware but has awards to pick up on holidaze in Berlin by the wall . he is five foot ten inches tall (Lou reed)
All these journos here but no articles. Who plays who here and who is played but the masses in greenwalds spin
If my posts show, 8% showing so far, they are 12 hours after I post.
Just a glitch I hear you say..
aH Mona says she is not a good mother, all of her friends and her sisters and brothers, and all of her lovers (H/T L Reed) say somebody should have broken both of her arms. (know if I link my post will not show.)She should l tell not you, she is the moderator. She lies but that comes easy for Mona. She stole from her employer but she is a virtual egotist.. She says glenn is the moderator here but does not explain the 24/7 seven aspect of the moderation.. Mona is paid to keep gg dissenters away.
Oh Mona help me please, Oh mona you are on your knees giving that heads up.
Lies are the intercept MO and the utter foolish can not get enough
Now I’m banned now I’m not. Whatever.
Kitt:
The “income inequality” chanting, Valerie Jarret-employing, health care mandate promoting, SEIU leader hosting (22 separate times before October 2009), gun grabbing (“…under the radar…”)*, immigration reform promoting, equality standard-bearing, “spread the wealth around” (http[:]//www[.]youtube[.]com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM) pushing, hard-leftist progressive Obama is a leftist.
* http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/over-a-barrel-meet-white-house-gun-policy-adviser-steve-croley/2011/04/04/AFt9EKND_story.html
I try to reply to you but I am blocked by Mona.
You cannot expect the Internet 1.0 industrialist who has pledged up to a quarter of a billion dollars toward the establishment of the underpinnings of Glenn’s blog to do all of this overnight.
What do you all expect? Immediacy? Give him time. He may be playing 11th dimensional chess.
I try to reply to youbut I am blocked from free speech Rev.
This one got through but where are the 68 posts that the intercept will not print.
I try as hard as I can to speak truth to power. But the moderator Mona disappears my posts. I asked who moderates and she says only gg. But he sleeps and takes flights o berlin and somebody 24 hours a day moderates this site.
Consider you considerations readers.
Game over intercept you are one and the same as the Nsa. Mona the moderator. She says Glenn is the sole (souless) arbitrator of all truth.
And she and she alone is below the line.
When was the last time you saw gg below the line.
Yeah just glitches.
Whilest the window is open. Know that Mona is the moderator here.
She does not crapflood but is over 19% of all posters.
And see can not with here egotism see any fault in here position.
Are you Mona a paid participant at the intercept.
Simple enough question.
But truth for you is a buy product of your mimipualtions.
I see yo Mona and I see your fell nature.
Bann this post as you have banned nearly 70 of my posts
I keep trying to try to reply to Rev but without success.
This site is not what it claims. This is a product of the great game.
You are all being played in the great game Kim.
I try to be the friend to all the earth but Mona cancels my posts.
Who are you going to believe ? You can do no wrong gg or a man that for four years has stated his convictions at gg sites?
Easy for some. We know glenn in our meme but who are you.
Shadow puppets on a stage fracking the fuck out of truth..
Americans will side with the “great patriarch of patriotism and the bull shit constitution of the most fell empire (more fell than Babylon) gg.manifest glorious exceptional America. He has to pass his article before the NSA. That alone should tell you who the fuck he is.
Fools utter fools to believe in nationalism.
A player asking for money at every opportunity to maintain his lifestyle of the gay and famous.
Wow, you sure are a lazy person… only 70 posts? You must not be getting paid enough for your time… to be so negligent. We really should raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour in order to make it worth your time… a side benefit is that other people would be getting paid closer to what they are worth…. maybe even a living wage. You would just be along for the free ride the same as you are here.
If you consider the possibility of moderation do you think any posts needed moderation?
Expecting moderation.
Things sometimes don’t get through. If that is happening and you do it 68 times in a row this doesn’t change. I’m pretty sure that I have not been moderated but things don’t get through ‘sometimes’.
Please watch, it is actually relevant to the article, unlike some of my posts!
Noam Chomsky: Propaganda terms in the Media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmoXze-Higc
I watched this and didn’t find much of a takeaway because of how old the video is and because of how specific it is to events during that time. He keeps saying that U.S. news didn’t describe the events in an objective manner (“you’ll never find a word about this.”) and then challenges us to find an exception. Hence, my problem with Chomsky has always been that for all his assertions, he sure doesn’t back it up with a lot of detailed analysis and investigation. In this video at the 2:00 mark, he talks about a media study group searching the NYT database for “peace process” and how all 900 or so instances show that the U.S. always supports peace. I don’t see this as evidence of some U.S.-based propaganda, unless the actual study contains much more context and analysis. From my reading of his past work, I’d guess that is not the case. FUrthermore, is he referring to the opinon of the NYT or the U.S. government opinion on the peace process? Also, does the NYT archive represent the entire media landscape!? Chomsky doesn’t even take into account that the USG isn’t a monolithic entity. For example, during the 1980s Afghanistan-Soviet conflict, there were attempts at peace between Afghans and the Soviets in North Afghanistan that I’m sure some agencies in the USG would support (why wouldn’t they!?), but others like the Pentagon and the warmongering CIA didn’t want peace because having the Soviets continue to get crushed was in their best interests!
My point is, Chomsky has and continues to make grand assertions about a concerted and deliberate effort by the media to propagandize us, but his evidence is often filled to the brim with obfuscation (I see him as a serial rambler). I read Manufacturing Consent a few years back (and watched the awful video later…) and definitely agree with some of its assertions, which are still relevant today and can be seen vividly on Fox News, MSNBC and some others. But where I disagree is his painting of EVERYBODY in this light. You’d think that in all this time, Chomsky would have established or discovered his standard-bearer of how the news should be reported.
To me he seems to be observing the larger patterns of behavior of “the establishment” or “the elite,” and he exposes their deceptions in a pleasant quiet tone to good effect most of the time.
Of course this is my opinion, and at college I must admit many of the group I hung out with found him tedious, although your distinction of “obfuscation” is not an accusation I remember at all.
I don’t always agree with him. for that matter. I just posted this because I was surprised how relevant it seemed (to me).
Are you kidding? Everything he said could be applied currently, and with even better examples than in the 80s, which is amazing. He’s completely correct about the meaning vs. usage of the terms “democracy” and “peace process.”
It is in fact the case that representative democracies where the business elite doesn’t run everything nearly as much as they did in the past are called “dictatorships” (or something other than democracies) in the media and in public discourse. I’ve also never encountered examples where the US is against the “peace process” according to the media. Go ahead and provide counter-examples if you have any.
But are there instances where the elite media said “the US government is against the peace process”? The whole point Chomsky is trying to make is about usage of language in the media, and it would appear he’s entirely correct.
@Jose
I don’t think it would ever be stated so explicitly by the media but here is am example of it during the 2012 election when it was reported by the media that Romney was against the US negotiating with the Taliban. This could be construed as opposing peace, could it not!?
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE80G06P20120117?irpc=932
Again, Chomsky’s point is about specific terms, in this case “peace process.” He observes it’s defined in such a way that the US is practically always in favor of the “peace process”, whatever it actually is.
Let’s take an example of a current potential peace process: The Venezuelan government talking to the opposition (actually achieved with the help of Unasur members today). Now, if Chomsky is right, the elite US media will not refer to this as a “peace process” unless the US government supports it, which I don’t believe they will.
I was also wondering if Colombia’s negotiations with the FARC are referred to as “peace process.” And it is, to my surprise. But it just so happens that the Obama administration supports it, so this still follows the script Chomsky proposes.
Looked around a bit and there are some mentioning a of “peace” regarding Venezuela and opposition.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/09/4049835/venezuela-government-and-opposition.html
But most seem to refer to it as mediation or negotiations.
“But where I disagree is his painting of EVERYBODY in this light.”
I have listened to a great many of Chomsky’s lectures, and have observed that there is a presumption that the average audience member is generally familiar with the topic matter, and that the majority harbor sympathetic views. It is for this reason that a great deal of that which Chomsky chooses to convey in his various lectures can be largely abbreviated for brevity sake. This speaking style affords him the opportunity to cover a great deal of ground in any given speech. One of the potential pitfalls of this approach is that there is a certain presumption of common agreement on unsubstantiated fact. Like yourself, I have often recoiled from the perception that he seems to be describing certain phenomena as all encompassing with little resistance from his adoring audience. However, I have been forced to largely abandon this view when faced with the degree of scholarship that he provides in support of his written arguments, and with the fact that his audiences do tend to be generally well informed. Even when taking sharp exception to his conclusions, Chomsky’s most notable critics acknowledge the depth of his commitment to exactitude.
In short, I have to agree with Nancy that Chomsky has consistently attempted to convey “broad patterns of behavior” to which he has publicly taken singular moral exception while most of his peers remained quiet for convenience sake.
Chomsky is, indeed, one of those whose writing and orations are very dense with implied knowledge – in that what he is saying is recounting observations made over time in order to reinforce a common theme or idea.
This sentence, however, is a non-sequitar, :
“there is a certain presumption of common agreement on unsubstantiated fact.”
Logic dictates that you cannot have an unsubstantiated fact.
Perhaps the statement could be reworded to make the point more clear for those that value this discourse.
Regards, Sillyputty
“Logic dictates that you cannot have an unsubstantiated fact.”
I love it when silly people like yourself concisely demonstrate an unremitting, conscious passion for falsity. Such illustrations eliminate all doubt that your commentary should be viewed as nothing more than a desperate cry for attention. The criteria that separates fact from opinion is that fact is objectively verifiable. An individual can state something as fact without providing substantiation. For instance, I could state as fact that John Fitzgerald Kennedy died on November 22, 1963 in absence of substantiation. Lack of substantiation however does not render the veracity of the statement as non-verifiable. Hence, the term “unsubstantiated fact” is consistent with the tenants of logic.
Thank you for providing me with both the the means and opportunity by which I could precisely demonstrate to all why your commentary is chronically lacking in merit.
Sure, but if someone questions an assertion that you make, and you cannot cite the fact(s) to back that assertion up, it doesn’t magically become an “unsubstantiated fact” – it remains an opinion.
This is the logical fallacy of “an appeal to (or argument from) ignorance:”
From *The Skeptical Raptor:
You consistently make assertions on here claiming such things as “Obama first said this or that and then recanted same” and “USAID, Soros, Omidyar, et .al are funding the overthrow of governments” without any substantiation whatsoever to back up these claims. Inference, yes. Proof. No.
This is where your arguments repeatedly fall flat on their face – you think you can makes assertions, you then claim “unsubstantiated facts” to support almost every argument that you make, and then expect others to believe it.
In the end what you are doing is editorializing and opining, and then attempting to call it truth, when in fact it’s just your opinion.
”The very lack of evidence is thus treated as evidence; the absence of smoke proves that the fire is very carefully hidden.”
~ C.S. Lewis
Regards, Sillyputty
* http://www.skepticalraptor.com/logicalfallacy_files/Arguing_from_Ignorance.html
“Logic dictates that you cannot have an unsubstantiated fact.” – SillyPutty
The term “unsubstantiated fact” is consistent with the tenants of logic. -Wilhelmina
“Sure.” – SillyPutty
If someone questions an assertion that you make, and you cannot cite the fact(s) to back that assertion up, it doesn’t magically become an “unsubstantiated fact” – it remains an opinion.” – SillyPutty
You are ignorantly blurring distinctions. An assertion is not necessarily an unsubstantiated fact. An assertion can be pure conjecture, an informed opinion (argument), an unsubstantiated fact, or a self-evident fact. This is why it is impossible to take you seriously; you are profoundly committed to Ignoratio elenchi.
Incorrect. That they can be used is fine. However, that what is provided to substantiate the claim, ipso facto, makes that claim true or credible is another matter altogether.
One can assert anything, opinion or fact. But if not enough, or incorrect, or inconclusive information is used in the assertation, the argument fails to hold up to the initial premise.
Mark Twain, “I wrote you a long letter; I would have written you a shorter letter but I didn’t have the time.”
Regards, Sillyputty
Anybody here have a Vanity Fair subscription!?
There is going to be an epic profile on Snowden tomorrow (http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/04/edward-snowden-interview), and I get the impression that a digital/magazine subscription is necessary to view the whole thing.
Internet Karma to the person who has access and can copy the text to a document for our viewing pleasure! If I can buy the individual magazine on my Ipad, I’ll try to do this!
it’s here, already.
Yes, it requires a sub.
I didn’t the intro.
They made it seem like Russia was Snowden’s choice.
– Should Mr. Greenwald Return to the USA on April 11 to accept his well-deserved George Polk award? One common man’s perspective–
Congratulations to Mr. Greenwald for his excellence in journalism and for his most recent awards. His courage, intellectual capacities, and aplomb are unassailable. Many of us cannot fathom how he finds the time and energy to accomplish his journalistic tasks within a 24-hour day, in addition to writing another book. Suffice to say that I respect the man and any negativity some might read into my comments herein remains unfounded.
I have suggested several times here and within The Guardian comment sections that I think Mr. Greenwald should return to the USA. There are no examples of true patriots with his world-renowned journalistic reputation and legal training—in recent memory—who could make a bona fide difference in fostering the debate surrounding the Obama Administrations’ assaults on the U.S. Constitution via unconstitutional spying and extrajudicial criminality within, and far beyond, the U.S.A. boundaries. The last free man who made such an impact was Daniel Ellsberg, almost 41 years ago when a federal judge dropped criminal charges against him. I, of course, do not include Mr. Snowden since he is not free to travel because of the criminal charges against him.
Mr. Greenwald, as a U.S. citizen and former constitutional attorney, has a rare opportunity to make a definitive statement regarding our Bill of Rights. He has the world as a platform surrounded with abounding support, and of paramount import—the timing is perfect. I cannot imagine a more opportune time for him to confront the disgraceful positions and disingenuousness’ of people like Representative Rogers and King, Senator Feinstein, Mr. Clapper, General Alexander et al., and others outside of government like David Gregory. If Mr. Greenwald neglects the exceptionally advantageous timeframe in April 2014, I think he has squandered the chance of a lifetime, although I understand valid reasons why he might decide against his travel.
Although the following scenario is pure speculation, I see the three emerging events in April; the speech at AI (just completed via video link); the Polk Award ceremonies, and the supposed release of Greenwald’s new book as accumulative impetuses for him to return. Current scheduling now has him speaking at AI via video (done). Perhaps he might disclose his travel plans for his arrival to accept his Polk award in person this Friday, April 11, unless he prefers some secrecy, for obvious reasons. Then he could conduct his book tour within the U.S.
I understand the potential risks involved in his travel. Not only are there real potential governmental impedances, including at least temporary detention upon entry—or worse—there are citizens who strongly dislike what Mr. Greenwald has done with his extraordinary journalism associated with the ‘Snowden documents.’ However, and as he has acknowledged elsewhere, there are journalists worldwide who face far greater dangers on a daily basis than what he has encountered or might encounter. His colleague, Mr. Scahill, has risked personal injury in war zones to document war crimes and deaths of innocent civilians. Ms. Poitras has endured numerous detentions during her travels and Mr. Greenwald knows of many more examples than I could ever imagine. I have stated nothing that he and his lawyers and associates have not considered and sound legal advice will be the final arbiter in his decision.
As a former constitutional attorney with a brilliant mind and a steady moral compass, Mr. Greenwald understands constitutional law through training and experience, which uniquely gives him credentials that trump those of some of his most ardent legally trained detractors. That is, he truly understands our civil liberties; he has litigated during constitutional proceedings; and he continues to defend the U.S. Constitution. Conversely, there stand before him his lesser adversaries; President Obama—only an academically trained attorney/professor with very limited legal associate billing hours and no substantive experience—and A.G. Holder (training & experience but with a skewed moral compass pointing downward). They both routinely violate the basic tenets of the U.S. Constitution that all schoolchildren learn about and are taught to respect via verbal pledges, beginning within elementary school level classes.
I do not solicit a response from Mr. Greenwald. I am merely presenting my perspective; furthermore, he most likely has made his decision. If he decides not to accept the award in person, I will not alter my respect for him for all the good he has accomplished—to date. This, however, is his excellent opportunity to represent journalists worldwide, but only if the enormous benefits of his physical presence in New York, USA clearly outweigh his potential risks from an Obama Administration bereft of firm constitutional bearing.
My belief is that Greenwald would be able to return to the U.S. unmolested. I don’t think the NSA, DOJ, WH, etc would want to face the potential backlash and deafening outrage that would occur if Greenwald was arrested or detained. Furthermore, how could they justify treating him in such a matter but not other recipients of the leaks such as Barton Gellman?
They may want vengeance on Greenwald but I think the cost of doing so is too great for the USG. If they were to do anything other than the NSA searching his electronic devices (let’s be honest, this would be likely to occur), I’d be both surprised and disgusted.
**Correction – “the TSA searching his electronic devices,” not the NSA.
I agree. Overall, I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.
It could go either way. Therefore: too risky.
There is another section to follow if TI will post that.
If it is true Glenn is going to Hambacher Fair, I hope he takes along David, it’s so romantic, there.
I spend my idle time flying over the Schwatrzbach from Einod to the tipper of Trippstadt with Hagen and his Wingnut crew. Volks flying. It’s better than walking! How they got from Trippstadt over to Hambach is a really difficult road to find, but one day, I will walk it for real.
Hey guys! I’ve signed up for alerts at least twice and it seems not to be working. Is there another step I’m missing?
When I signed on for the alerts I seem to recall there was a blurb that explained that it was not yet functioning but that they were collecting sign ups in anticipation of the start up. Or something along those lines.
From EFF:Much explained about Heartbleed.
“Heartbleed isn’t a bug in the design of HTTPS itself but rather the result of a simple programming error in a widely-used piece of software called OpenSSL.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_Transfer_Protocol
HTTP secure uses SSL. A ‘bug’ in one is a ‘bug’ in the other.
A ping, a gltch, a lifeform? What the fuck?
The “glitch” in SSL is in version 1.0.
Dreamers say it was accidental.
I could sells those guys some bridges.
Version 2.0 is said to be secure.
Not my experience here at the intercept, where false SSL version 2.0 certificates are on every page.
That’s because the site doesn’t support SSL 2.0. It supports SSL 3.0, TLS 1.0, TLS 1.1, TLS 1.2.
FirstLook gets an A- from the Qualys SSL Labs folks, which isn’t bad at all. The only site I’ve yet seen to do better is YouTube with an A+, not that there aren’t many others. But I don’t think for a second it’s as bad as you’re making it out to be, jimmy.
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=firstlook.org
You could not be more wrong.
HTTPS(Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure) is HTTP with S which stands for secure. The secure part of HTTPS is the SSL (secure socket layer).
A problem with the SSL is a problem with HTTPS.
You can not have one without the other. HTTPS is secure because the certificates are cheched.
Stick to what you know like shadow sockets.
I didn’t write it, you blithering, arrogant jackass, I quoted it.
Thanks, Kitt. I had forgotten to check EFF.
I think this excellent summary should be read by everyone.
I can
I can find them.
If I can find them others surely can.
If you have no third parties on your web site then HTTPS ((total key) if you follow strict certificate checking and pattern matching.SSL/TLS) is secure.
Third parties take security away from the web owner and hands it to third parties such as google.
Does any here trust google?
Then why trust this site’s security.
Please:
Who is the “web owner”?
Is it possible for this present obviously-economically-underfunded-for-some-damn reason site to easily ‘shoo’ google from the property?
Is that the site doesn’t, your point?
Thanks for the link, Kitt – and the summary, Doug. Much appreciated.
Just in case anyone is interested and wants a truly secure search engine and homepage please see this:
https://support.startpage.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/705/0/rest-easy-startpage-is-secure-from-heartbleed-ssl-threat
Dear Zelda,
Isn’t it about time for a new article????????????????????????????????????????????
Sincerely,
Bored in Paradise.
Zelda is out looking for flight MH370, but she asked me to deputize for her.
Since you claim to be in paradise, I assume you are a writer working for The Intercept. We really should have put a production quota into those contracts. But isn’t it a bit ironic for you to a) claim to be bored, when you are actually supposed to be working, b) calling for a new article, when producing new articles is in fact your job.
Please get back to work.
Oh, no .. Zelda is going to be furious with me for my lack of empathy. Well, I didn’t really fancy this job anyway.
I realize The Intercept is not here to keep us entertained. They have better things to do. But the article rate is strangely low. When Glenn was blogging solo, you could expect a new column every couple days or so. The Intercept has about 15 writers. So I don’t know. Are they intentionally holding up until the final site is up and running? Are they working on a huge new story?
Glenn’s gone on holidaze in Berlin
As for the other writers, some have not even produced one article. Smone none for weeks and weks on end.
You think something is up/
I think something is going down.
To good to be true this whole concept of Intercept. There is a meaning of the word intercept that could well descibe this no show of news.
I smell a rat and it is ripe.
If something is up, I hope it’s something good.
I fervently hope that’s not true. But if it is, I think they, the journalists, will recover.
I find this article informative as it pulls it all together in a manner comprehensive to little old me.
TO CONTINUE AFTER HITTING THE WRONG KEY, –APOLOGIES
Re the article rate; Im sure that these people at The Intercept are committed to getting this issue and others that impact our present and/or future freedoms, and meaningful democracy, out there. And, most importantly, doing so not in a half-cocked manner to satisfy a public demand, but in a comprehensive manner that brings to light all the details and hits the issue between the eyes.
You can bet the rent that these interests that are in the process of setting up a governance structure beyond the influence of the people would very much welcome a badly researched article right now by Greenwald and associates, that they might employ methods such as those detailed in this article to discredit them. In fact, it’s perhaps critical to their survival.
So lets be patient and let them do it right.
You know, wheels like this don’t need to be invented anymore. Enterprise-grade CMS publishing tools have been around for a season or two. When an NSFWCorp or a Pando or a Business Insider or an Infowars needs to get up and running, there isn’t a lot of handwringing or gnashing of teeth or talk, they just, you know, somehow manage.
I’ve also been wondering about the very slow rate of stories as late. Glad I’m not the only one who has noticed this. I also wonder if something is up or if there are good journalistic reasons for the slow pace. Not to hit on one note too much, but doesn’t anyone else find it – well , curious – that Glenn hasn’t done a piece on Judge Collyer’s decision ? Being a constitutional lawyer by training, I thought he’d be all over it. And no article from Jeremy, either – and this is so related to the drone strikes he’s written so passionately about.
I hope that the team will be putting up some bylines soon.
in the uk
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/08/david-cameron-welcomes-all-clear-spy-agencies-surveillance-watchdog-anthony-may
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26936116
Had posted this twice 10 hours ago although it looks like they got lost in the ether.
Re: Wikipedia, encyclopedias, etc…
Note to self:
“encyclopedias of any type are not usually appropriate to use as citeable sources, and should not be relied upon as authoritative” – Jimmy Wales”, Biography Resource Center Online
Apparently one should not say things like “Encyclodepia Brittanica reports that…” ” or Wikipedia reports that…” ”
Must remember – not authoratative – just a reference – not a primary source or an actual source of news reporting.
The following is just my speculation (consider it fiction, if you prefer) based upon Mr. Greenwald’s silence about the upcoming Polk Award ceremony this Friday, April 11. I think he should attend the New York, USA event, although he is ‘apparently’ going to an award ceremony for German journalists in Berlin, Germany. Now if I were an official with the Polk Award committee, I would send a representative to Berlin to present the awards at that event—or thereafter—to Mr. Greenwald and Ms. Poitras (since she is already in Germany). Problem solved and no one has to return to the USA.
I had a comment ready since early March wherein I suggested that Mr. Greenwald should accept the award in New York in person. There a many pros and cons to that option and, of course, he and his attorneys know more than I ever could about the risks/benefits. I had my post entered into the TI comment box this afternoon, I checked Mr. Greenwald’s tweeter account one last time, and then saw his tweet about going to Germany on Thursday. If that occurs, then he is very unlikely to be able to make the trip to the USA unless his acceptance was postponed until this weekend or later (I am not a world traveler so I do not know the potential itinerary constraints).
Ergo, my initial pending post is now moot, although I am interested to see what transpires over the next few days.
Under the circumstances and risks associated with GG’s entering the US at this stage, I don’t see why he should take the risk. What benefits do you imagine he’d realize if he did?
I covered the risks/benefits within my pending comment and I might post that later, depending on what transpires. Regarding flights, Mr. Omidyar surely has at least 1 private jet…
private jet? I dunno – were it me I’d take the better odds of using public transportation.
I’d be interested to take a look at your assessment of those risks/benefits.
I posted my once-pending comment above as 2 separate posts.
See there, Nemo, you are prescient. ;)
Ha! I actually thought you might ‘rib’ me about that in a comment. Thanks for your reply since it gave me a chuckle. I just wrote what I would have done if I were Mr. Greenwald and I was reasonably certain that he would make the trip to New York, given his sound character and the great import of his (and Ms. Poitras’) presence.
Had I been a world traveler (as you are?), I would have assumed that he (they) could make the trip from Berlin to New York City by this afternoon. The Polk committee actually pushed back the schedule to allow for the travel delay. Finally, I greatly respect both individuals for their decision since it is important for journalism worldwide and for First Amendment reinforcement.
P.S. There are direct flights from Rio to Germany – so he’d encounter no obvious danger like transferring through NY or London. Just FYI as you’re not a world traveler.
‘Munk Debates’
Dershowitz/Hayden v. Greenwald/Ohanian
Friday, May 2nd
7pm (est)
Roy Thomson Hall, Toronto
-Sold Out-
Live Stream via Membership to Munk (free)
https://www.munkdebates.com/debates
..
ht – mona`
US AID methodology was no “drop in the bucket”.
It was core.
Omidyar did similar imperial manipulation , no?
I provided a two part, detailed example of the way in which USAID coordinates its efforts with other state, military, and non-governmental agencies using Cuba as an example. In another post on this thread, I attempted to provide a brief historical context by which the use of NGOs as agents of change could be more properly evaluated. Indeed, Omydar plays a similar role to that of George Soros, whose Open Society Foundations uses the cloak of liberal radicalism to advance a neoliberal agenda of capital driven modernity. You are also right in concluding that the allure of high tech gadgetry is being used by the CIA et al to garner an audience among the youth of targeted nations in an effort to foment unrest. NGOs are being use as a tool of pacification and reconstruction as well. If people like Glenn Greenwald and Snowden are being used as window dressing to mask the role that Omydar plays in these shadowy events, then it really doesn’t matter if he is allowed to give unfettered voice to his views as such efforts only facilitate the mind-numbing illusion of chic, anti-establishment radicalism.
I need to read more on Soros, Omidyar, et al., but I do like someone who can admit that there have been mistakes:
Per George Soros, when asked about a statement he made in his 2006 essay, The Age of Fallibility:
Soros: “The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.”
Soros responded that “it happens to coincide with the prevailing opinion in the world. And I think that’s rather shocking for Americans to hear. The United States sets the agenda for the world. And the rest of the world has to respond to that agenda. By declaring a ‘war on terror’ after September 11, we set the wrong agenda for the world. … when you wage war, you inevitably create innocent victims.”
Although I have not researched completely how Soros (or Omidyar) feel about the “tone” that the United States has set with the subterfuge being exposed almost daily in the secret manipulation of other governments and the widespread violations of privacy all over the world – but my initial indications are that neither Soros or Omidyar want to be involved in creating innocent victims due to the United States, Great Britain, and others mad dash to infringe the rights of everyone on planet Earth indiscriminately.
Regards,
Sillyputty
Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev
By Steve Weissman
Ron Paul Institute
March 26, 2014
Excerpt:
“On Planet McGovern – or my personal take on it – realpolitik rules. The State Department controls the prime funding sources for non-military intervention, including the controversial National Endowment for Democracy (NED), which Washington created to fund covert and clandestine action after Ramparts magazine and others exposed how the CIA channeled money through private foundations, including the Ford Foundation. State also controls the far-better-funded Agency for International Development (USAID), along with a growing network of front groups, cut-outs, and private contractors. State coordinates with like-minded governments and their parallel institutions, mostly in Canada and Western Europe. State’s “democracy bureaucracy” oversees nominally private but largely government funded groups like Freedom House. And through Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland, State had Geoff Pyatt coordinate the coup in Kiev.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/03/steve-weissman/the-feds-who-schemed-the-coup-in-kiev/
The CIA, NSA, and Pentagon likely provided their specialized services, while some of the private contractors exhibited shadowy skill sets. But if McGovern knows the score, as he should, diplomats ran the campaign to destabilize Ukraine and did the hands-on dirty work.”
Thanks for the synopsis and links, but what is seen upon reading this and the ancillary information further linked within is that it is not an evidentiary presentation that begins from a premise (“The Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev” – e.g., Soros, Omidyar, et .al) that then goes on to offer compelling evidence to support that claim.
Rather, it is a theory and a series of conjectures that proposes that this initial premise is the case, but offers little, if any actual evidence to back up those claims.
Here are just a few incidents of the types of wording that lead to this conclusion: phrases such as “likely provided their specialized services,” and ““if McGovern knows the score,” and “my personal take on it” – which are then followed with assertions that are implied to be true based on these “if’s, likely’s, and personal take’s.”
To date, the information provided was not established as accurate, nor have I been able to do so via other, impartial source material to test the claims veracity.
There may be some confirmable facts in the information provided somewhere, but if an article’s primary assertions and subsequent conclusions are based on qualifiers such as “if, likely, and my personal take” then the article and ancillary information is, for now, nothing more than an opinion of what may have happened and why,”, and cannot be considered as confirmation that this is actually what happened.
Regards, Sillyputty
“There may be some confirmable facts in the information provided somewhere, but if an article’s primary assertions and subsequent conclusions are based on qualifiers such as “if, likely, and my personal take” then the article and ancillary information is, for now, nothing more than an opinion of what may have happened and why,”, and cannot be considered as confirmation that this is actually what happened.”
This is simply the “informed opinion of an individual who worked for twenty seven years as a CIA analyst. Because Ray McGovern has assumed a public posture that is highly critical of the way in which US Foreign Policy is constructed and implanted, his dissenting opinions have been held in great esteem by those who define themselves as being on the left of the political spectrum. Although I understand that people like yourself are sorely distressed by the prospect of having to actually confirm for your self the validity of such opinions, I, nevertheless, contribute them with the understanding that others appreciate a wide range of informed perspective as an adjunct to their own research efforts. So while you continue to compulsively seek attention at the expense of your own dignity, I will continue to provide avenues of investigation that I belief will best facilitate the means by which a better understanding of the topic can be achieved by those who are sincere in the desire to know the truth.
Absolutely correct. This confirms that what was provided by you is only an “appeal to authority,” in which the claim is based not on facts, but on what was said by someone. That it may be true (or not); neither you nor I have been able to prove or disprove.
In other words: Your claim thus far is not evidence – it is hearsay.
Absolutely. But one cannot reasonably claim that something is true, i.e., “The Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev” – e.g., Soros, Omidyar, et .al, without providing evidence to support that claim.
As stated above, your claim is an “informed opinion,” which by no account can be considered evidence.
Again – an “appeal to authority” is not proof, so it remains a makeshift conclusion, at best.
And this, of course, is a logical fallacy called “an appeal to emotion.” To wit:
”Appeals to emotion include appeals to fear, envy, hatred, pity, pride, and more. It’s important to note that sometimes a logically coherent argument may inspire emotion or have an emotional aspect, but the problem and fallacy occurs when emotion is used instead of a logical argument, or to obscure the fact that no compelling rational reason exists for one’s position. Everyone, bar sociopaths, is affected by emotion, and so appeals to emotion are a very common and effective argument tactic, but they’re ultimately flawed and dishonest.
Absolutely. That is very welcome. Leaving the “appeal to emotion” arguments aside when facts are not available – that would certainly make for a more knowledgeable discussion.
The definitive question remains: Is the “truth” just the “informed opinion of an individual” as you assert in the beginning of your argument, coupled with the ongoing attempt to malign the questioner?
Or is the truth, in the end, actually what can be proved by independently substantiating what others say – irrespective of the personal or emotional connections to the subject at hand?
A rational argument based on facts and not opinion says it is the latter.
Best regards, Sillyputty
Apparently, you have misinterpreted my last response as an indication that I value anything that you have to say. Truth is, it was meant for those who are not intent on chronically perpetuating their own ignorance. I could stand toe-to-toe with you and demonstrate how faulty your reasoning is, point by point, but that would only be giving you with that which you so desperately desire – more unwarranted attention.
Not at all. Your last response was simply another exercise in cherry-picking scant evidence in order to try to make a claim – which, as with all of your other claims – have yet to be substantiated by facts.
Regards, Sillyputty
The real meaning of internet surveillance:
“But I’ve been surprised that the response to the NSA gathering everyone’s phone calls and emails has been so narrowly focused on the ostensible violation of personal privacy. The real issue is not the privacy of your personal communication. The NSA program is the government’s attempt to get a handle on networked uprisings, not so they can pre-empt them (though of course they’d like to), but to respond them as quickly as possible as they unfold. The goal of gathering all this meta-data is to be able to identify where the “hubs” are, who the people are who sit at key points in networks, helping pass news and messages along, but especially, who the people are who spread ideas and information from one network of people to the next, who help connect small networks into larger ones, and thus facilitate the unpredictable and rapid spread of dissent when it appears.”
http://www.nowtopians.com/book-reviews/spook-governments-networked-movements-shifting-subjectivities
The AP Cuba story shed more effective light than months of GG and Intercept.
Social networks, organizing, dissent, and social control are the game plan, as AP made clear.
I could not disagree more.
From the day the metadata story broke, on thru PRISM, XKeyscore & etc, I’ve been telling everyone who whines “I’ve got nothing to hide and so nothing to fear” that this means they are not political dissidents, and should thus be ashamed of themselves.
The threat to political dissidents from government spying had been obvious before the Snowden leaks, but much in mind since them.
There is a way around such games the NSA plays. If you understand the rules of the game – which by the way they do not…they merely think the own and run the game, but are wrong – then you have the advantage. Encryption only exists in certain forms in their mind, in their perspective. All you have to do is think outside their perspective.
What if they think someone is just a ‘nutcase’ who doesn’t understand the world – as they believe it exists? What if you really do know the rules of the game, and can thus play the game better.
Remember, these people exist in computers only. They exist in a mindset of lies and deception. They do not understand the truth, nor do they understand the human condition. ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL can be smarter and thus outwit the entirety of the NSA; which is as weak as its stupidest member.
So while the NSA is looking at non-profits and other activist types – someone could theoretically organize the people to rise up, or even simply passively provide all they need to rise up, through fiction.
Movies like Waking Life. Music like Bob Dylan. Poets. Philosophers. And even fiction. These can all be mediums of truth. And how ironic that a medium essentially designed to spy on us – YouTube, can provide a mechansim for fighting against the very system that gave us YouTube. The truth does not come from corporations. It comes from people. And YouTube may have been created for the NSA to use against us, but we, having a vastly broader perspective, can use YouTube against the child hacker spies of the NSA, by encrypting life itself.
For example, I encrypt my phone number with roman numerals. Beat that, NSA computers. Yet any intelligent person can go look them up. For example, if you have ghosts, you call MMMMMDLV – MMDCXXXVIII – 555-2638 (if I remember that accurately.) Or, you can direct social change and reveal the truth through fiction, and protect yourself by making it seem as though you are aa ‘nutcase.’
It’s not hard to be more intelligent than people who are merely trained. That they are merely trained is obvious from the fact that anyone who thought about what is going on at the NSA would realize that they wouldn’t want it done to themselves and thus they would not do it to others…Edward Snowden woke up to that fact a couple of years ago. If you don’t believe me, ask him yourself. I predict his answer will be quite affirmative. Oh, and please, don’t believe me. Always seek to verify anything you are told – file it away under “to be verified” until such time as you do.
Good luck.
Very interesting…and not unlike what we might suspect.
One of their perverse tricks is to go into comments sections LIE THIS ONE and spread hate to defuse any serious commentary.
Look here for hate and find a government troll.
Then – what you gonna DO about it?
At some point we have to ACT!
I posted this a little while ago, but the post seems to have been too complex for the peerless TI comment software.
Pay close attention if you engage in private, financial, secret, sensitive. . . activities on the Internet.
‘Heartbleed’ bug puts encryption at risk for hundreds of thousands of servers — Code error means that websites can leak cryptographic keys and user details through ‘heartbeat’ function used to secure connections
Thanks Doug – Amazingly, per the article:
“Among the systems confirmed to be affected are Imgur, OKCupid, Eventbrite, and the FBI’s website”
And: “For users, the simplest thing to do may be to refrain from engaging in sensitive activities on the internet for a few days.”
And: “The issue is widespread. “We count at least a few hundred thousand servers using affected library versions so that it poses a significant threat.”
A bit of good news is that if the FBI’s website had it, it could mean the NSA didn’t already know about it. BTW, FirstLook doesn’t have it. I checked shortly after the news broke.
Without a doubt, it’s one of the most serious vulnerabilities ever discovered. An attacker can read the server’s memory, and invariably retrieve usernames, passwords, and even private keys — all while remaining undetected. With those private keys, the attacker could theoretically do a man-in-the-middle attack on the server, and look at SSL-encrypted traffic.
However, such man-in-the-middle attacks should be very unlikely if you used HTTPS Everywhere and the website was listed as ‘fully’ protected via HTTPS Everywhere.
Sorry, Nemo, but that’s just wrong. It’s clear you don’t understand this vulnerability. For starters, it’s not a man-in-the-middle attack.
Read this.
@ Doug S.
I was only replying to Jose’s man-in-the-middle attack scenario—if possible—and not to what ‘Heartbleed’ could do specifically. As soon as I saw your initial ‘Heartbleed post, I immediately went to Malewarebytes to read an entry there and your link corroborates that information. No disrespect intended; however, I always go to at least one or two of the major security software sites to verify the topic content of any virus/bug-related link—even from a reliable source like you—and then I opened your link. That is why I prefer to use full links (similar to your first link) that give a hint of the enclosed content instead of linking to phrases like “Read This”.
Thanks
Sorry if I was overly brusque.
People, by and large, have some difficulty understanding which of these security threats are potentially serious. I don’t want anyone to think this one is anything other than “as serious as it gets.”
I’m telling my less tech-savvy friends that now would be a good time to avoid transmitting personal data over the net for a bit. Once providers have updated OpenSSL, we can all change all our passwords. . .
I have read 2 other in-depth technical articles that explain the bug. One major problem now is that many people are submitting their taxes online, so this is a potential disaster until the April 15 deadline—and beyond—since tax preparers cannot avoid using their computers to transmit sensitive data over the next week.
No. If a server had the vulnerability (a non-upgraded version of OpenSSL), Heartbleed was exploited, and the attackers got a hold of private certificate keys, and a means to do a man-in-the-middle attack, they can in fact read SSL traffic undetected. That’s why it’s been recommended that servers not only upgrade OpenSSL, but get their certificates revoked and re-issued.
Thank you so much for posting this again.
Just loaded a Linux system for security reasons. Still struggling along with it but it is harder to crack.
But this ‘Heartbleed” thing….well…all your have to do is be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Getting a bit tired of fighting for my online privacy.
Hi @ Doug Salzman –
Thanks for helping us all try to get through this heartbleed thing. You mention below we should wait until a site has fixed up their vulnerability, then we should change passwords.
My question is how will we know if that has happened? There is a site with a test and I tried checking The Guardian site to see how it works. Came back basically inconclusive – so it’s not sure they have a fix on. The test site says such timeouts (which is what I got) have been increasing – maybe because of firewalls and other things – that’s why I would term the results I got inconclusive.
Any info or thoughts?
This site is the best I’ve found for checking sites’ vulnerabilities. My bank failed miserably with an F, just like the Guardian gets.
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
Just before I was about to post a long comment about the Polk Award Ceremony this Friday, I saw a tweet by Mr. Greenwald. Can anyone confirm for certain that he will travel to Berlin to be there in person? (I do not use twitter to respond to tweets).
Mr. Glenn Greenwald:
“Looking forward to being in Berlin on Thursday to honor courageous German journalists at the Liberty Awards”
Not only that, on May 2 he’ll be in Toronto to participate in the Munk Debates.
Alan Dershowitz in support of the NSA (with Michael Hayden) v. Glenn (and Alexis Ohanian, an open Internet activist).
Dersh and Glenn on the same stage. Wow.
I expect
Thank you. My pending comment regarding his possible attendance to receive the Polk Award in person is rendered moot…
I hope he’s made arrangements so that others can continue with the reporting in case he can’t.
Holy shit Mona. ‘The’ Michael Hayden!
*tell Glenn not to worry about us … we’ll be o.k.
Out of curiosity, why are you asking if anyone can confirm, since it was Glenn himself who posted/tweeted that he would be there?
In today’s world, I attempt to confirm and/or verify everything I read over the Internet. If you view the replies under Mr. Greenwald’s tweet, another person asked the same question and there is at least one more ‘assumption’ comment. I was reasonably certain that someone here within the comment section (who knew him) would confirm his statement.
Several times over the period beginning last summer, Mr. Greenwald had stated his appearances at events and sometimes it was unclear—up until the time just before the event—if he would attend via video or in person. Mr. Greenwald could have confirmed the other person’s question but he chose not to do so. I simply did not want to post my lengthy comment before I confirmed his plans to the best I could without his direct acknowledgment via a reply or from a known colleague and/or acquaintance.
Okay, well, that’s your explanation but I don’t see anything in Glenn’s tweet that was the least bit unclear. His tweet was specific and direct. I’ve never seen a time that he has posted that his twitter ID had been hacked or taken over by someone. “To each his…” and all of that, but just seems there’s enough to worry about or be suspicious of without concerning oneself with whether or not a comment that simple and clear by someone that well known was anything other than what it appeared to be.
I never considered or worried that his account was ‘hacked’ or anything similar to that. I simply needed some verification because of what I had stated in my post that was pending, which was based upon his (or someone who might know with some certainty) confirmation via a tweet, et cetera.
Only just found this. Had never seen it before. Quite old now but interesting none the less if you haven’t seen it before.
Vice meets Glen Greenwald.
http://dprogram.net/2014/01/17/vice-meets-glenn-greenwald/
posted this an hour ago not appeared so sorry if it re surfaces.
in the UK….
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/08/david-cameron-welcomes-all-clear-spy-agencies-surveillance-watchdog-anthony-may
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26936116
Thanks for sharing; it was an informative interview, particularly his addressing Omidyar and the PayPal issue. …the “quite old” comment had me going though…;)
yes it was younger than I thought.. Had just sighted a paper from 1977 about computers so hyper sensitive.
Kevin Gosztola post about “Cuban Twitter,” AP article and the feeble dispute from USAID to the AP article:
Here’s a much richer field to cultivate than the one occupying the folks worrying about “trackers” on the TI site:
‘Heartbleed’ bug puts encryption at risk for hundreds of thousands of servers
This from the folks who discovered the vulnerability.
We be talkin’ the keys to the Internet, gentlepeople.
“What we’re seeing today in America is a new political movement that crosses party lines. This post-terror generation rejects the idea that we have to burn down our village in order to save it—that the only way to defend the Constitution is to tear it up.”
Edward Snowden.
In the UK
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/08/david-cameron-welcomes-all-clear-spy-agencies-surveillance-watchdog-anthony-may
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26936116
Test.
Using NoScript, SSL Observatory, HTTPS Everywhere, and then Gravatar disabled/blocked.
I’m a bit late to the party on this story but came across USAID’s response to the Associated Press Article:
http://blog.usaid.gov/2014/04/eight-facts-about-zunzuneo/
Also came across this profile of the USAID Administrator:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/world/africa/in-switch-development-agency-welcomes-business-and-technology-to-poverty-fight.html?ref=world&_r=0#
And a USA Today opinion piece ripping on USAID
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/04/07/cuba-twitter-president-obama-dewayne-wickham-column/7382685/
Does anyone remember “The Falcon and the Snowman”, the case of a US intelligence officer coming across the CIA plot to overthrow the government of Australia in 1975? It is my belief that this kind of thing happens constantly, we only hear about 2% of what our government agencies are doing overseas.
@ Jim Hannan
That the United States government is willing to interfere with the core politics in one of the most democratic countries in the world should make it clear to anyone that any deviation from political theory that is friendly to US corporate power and their political agenda makes them a fair target. Democracy and freedom is not and I doubt has ever been their true motivation to act internationally or locally.
@ tombrown’s schooleddaze’
Please point out clearly what are your misgivings about this site, with ‘trackers.’ I am very curious, but have no tech skills and do not understand tech talk unless explained as if to a child.
Yes me too.. the “clearly” bit but also expand with “tech talk”.
Queueing Models for Computer Communications
System Analysis
“Flows of messages or data generated by user terminals, multiplexers, concentrators, or by host computers, are not steady streams. On the contrary, occurrences of messages are often sporadic and bursty. The amount of resource usage demanded by the messages or processes is often unpredictable and consequently is viewed as stochastic in nature; for example, the length of messages or data to be transferred or stored, the time required in processing transactions, the amount of main memory or buffer pool to be allocated to processes. In intercomputer-communication nets another dimension is added to the stochastic natureof the work loads; namely, the destination IMP’S (interface message processors) or hosts of messages are also assumed to be random variables, and we face new issues such as routing and flow control of messages.”
http://www.hisashikobayashi.com/papers/Communication%20System%20Performance%20Evaluation%20and%20Queuing%20Theory/Queuing%20Models%20for%20Computer%20Communications%20Systems%20Analysis.pdf
there goes the avatar again.. Who’s cache is to blame for Avatar removal.. mine or intercepts? Don’t get the part mentioned to do with Gravatar in OOP’s comment and if it relates to this peculiar occurrence i’m experiencing which is visible above.
Rather embarrassingly this paper was from 1977. Perhaps the current computing speeds/modern networks make this the above quote not possible to cause your peculiar occurrence.
Has a tracker ever got past scanning before.. Can you observe this trend every time. Which software are you using that does the scanning?
Trackers as in third party advertising/data profilers. aka Big Data. It’s the internet economy more or less. extensions like Ghostery can help protect your passive privacy, as well as show you what trackers are being used on a given website. Very user friendly.
https://www.ghostery.com/
TI’s load is relatively slim compared to say, theguardian, but I have noticed google analytics/mixpanel disappearing and reappearing. I’m not tech savvy enough to say if anything nefarious is going on though.
Thanks.
Tom Simonite of Technology Review explains that with the “Ghostrank” feature enabled Ghostery sends collected user data back to the vendor, who then offers it for sale to ad firms.[5] This is also reflected in the German branch of the magazine.[6] Consequently, the German computer magazine Chip comes to the conclusion to not recommend installing the software and suggests NoScript as a (partial) alternative.[7]
According to Evidon, Ghostery does not collect any information which could be used to identify users or target ads specifically at individual users. Additionally, Ghostery would collect data only when Ghostrank is enabled. The collected data would be shared with the Better Business Bureau and offered to university students, researcher as well as journalists to support their studies.[8]
Source: Wikipedia/ghostery
I really do not know if I want to support studies.
Very clearly explained, Keller. Thank you. I have used Ghostery (with ‘Ghostrank” disabled) for quite some time.
Not me, Wikipedia.
My comments with links did not appear so I try to avoid links.
Also appreciated.
This does give an explanation of trackers but what of OP’s claims which were unclear anyway..
tombrown’s schooleddaze’ 08 Apr 2014 at 9:17 am
“Does anybody else see that the trackers here oscilate between one and three.
Most peculiar.
If your anti tracking add-ons scan the page when one (gravatar) shows whilst the page runs two more arrive, Mixpanel and google analytics show.
The page is scanned with one tracker and then the other two appear without being scanned.
Fiendish ain’t they.”
Ok, I really have not a lot of tech knowledge (and not that much hightech english vocabulary), so it is simply noscript (4 trackers) and wikipedia about Amazon Web services – the german wikipedia with google translation:
Im Mai 2013 kündigte Amazon an, Amazon Web Services in Zukunft auch in Deutschland entwickeln zu wollen. Nachdem zuvor auch in anderen Regionen entsprechende Zentren entwickelt wurden, sollten neue Dienste für AWS ab Mitte 2013 an den Standorten in Berlin und Dresden konzipiert werden.[7]
Immer wieder wurden gravierende Sicherheitslücken in Amazon Web Services bekannt, weshalb die Plattform von Experten kritisch beurteilt wird.[8] Außerdem wurde 2013 bekannt, dass Amazon einen Großauftrag der CIA erhalten habe und dessen Public Cloud betreiben werde, was weitere Zweifel am Datenschutz des Angebots aufkommen ließ.[9] Amazon setzte sich mit AWS bei der Vergabe gegen IBM und andere Bewerber durch.[10]
In May 2013 Amazon announced its intention to Amazon Web Services to develop in the future in Germany. Having previously corresponding centers have been developed in other regions, new services for AWS from mid-2013 should be set at locations in Berlin and Dresden. [7]
Again and again, serious security flaws in Amazon Web Services have been known why the platform of experts will be critically evaluated. [8] It was also in 2013 announced that Amazon has received a major order from the CIA and will operate public cloud, which cast further doubt on the privacy of the offer gave rise. [9] Amazon sat down with AWS in the award against IBM and other candidates for that. [10]
The english Wikipedia version is shorter:
AWS adoption has increased since launch in 2006. Customers include NASA, the Obama Campaign, Pinterest, Kempinski Hotels, Netflix and the CIA.
Simply stated, trackers are spying on your social habits. Ideally the fewer of of these companies, like Google Analytics, Mixpanel , etc. , the more protected you are.
Your Operating System and Browser permissions/ Add Ins determine the influence of trackers on your browser and ability of them to in turn monitor you.
I prefer to block them completely. You might check out: DO NOT TRACK ME by Albine. They have different versions for different browsers including Opera, IE, and Firefox. Once installed, ALL trackers are blocked automatically.
So, then, the poster “tombrown’s schooleddaze’” s observation is that there are trackers here, and there SHOULDN’T be? Is that right?
1) Is this a legitimate complaint, or could he like you just block all of them (thx 4 the tip, btw)?
2) What reasons for agreeing to trackers make sense (if they do) for a site like this, or is it in some way simply hard to exist without them without extra expense?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
“tombrown………” could block them all without exception by using DO NOT TRACK ME. That includes first party trackers like TI. I am not a web designer but I believe that sites can be constructed to disallow tracking companies for instance: Startpage is a search engine which blocks Google even though it uses the Google Engine for search results.
I use Startpage for my home page. You can add it as an primary search engine in a Firefox Browser and then set your homepage to the actual engine page.
There are also browser options which greatly reduce hacking attempts. For instance…..dump all cookies and don’t let your browser store passwords or history lists. But that still won’t fix the fact that the weakest links are actually written as backdoors into Microsoft and Mac Operating systems.
There may be additional costs to running a site which blocks Google and Mixpanel, in particular, because this site is running a comments forum. Really not sure about that.
The easiest way around that mess is to block ALL trackers and stay away from all social networks like Facebook and Linked-In. Sad but true.
Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I still have questions about this, however, and do not feel particularly reassured that tech savvy people are also a bit mystified.
Notice now with the torture report all talk is about how this should never happen again. Holder wants “as much as possible” released ONLY SO IT CANNOT REOCCUR.
IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THOSE RESPONSIBLE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED. A theatrical distraction of emotional Dems and defensive Reps shouldn’t remove the focus from THIS MATTER OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND LAW. Feinstein, for all her ’emotions,” also seeks no accountability for those responsible.
Damn this is annoying.
The same goes for ongoing drone strikes on innocents, which should simply be stopped now due to their incontrovertibly dubious legal/moral founding and every last one of them INVESTIGATED independently.
No argument.
Although a slightly different topic and target, I found the following article to be interesting in addressing and bolstering the concept of justice.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/06/trial-of-the-century-launched/
I absolutely agree, Cindy, especially about the 2-faced Feinstein distraction and torture accountability. I’d also like to suggest the government protecting it’s known war criminals for years provides blatant evidence they believe themselves above ‘any’ law, perhaps convinced they’re close enough to world domination they no longer really care what anyone thinks.
There once was a time I enjoyed reading science fiction.
Imagine if you would that soldiers are no longer needed to pacify a country, or even a continent. Surface armies and navies will soon become largely obsolete and the nature of warfare again permanently change forever. The fastest missiles and even artillery will be useless against the empire’s inevitable semi-autonomous drones equipped with weapons grade lasers, capable of targeting anything “it” wants within a hundred or more miles at the speed of light. It could be only twenty years out, though ten is probably more likely. Envision squadrons, perhaps thousands of them…
What often keeps me awake at night though, other than ugly visions of war (and personal pain), is suspicion some ill-conceived military domination of OUR planet – too logically also explains need for the global Big Brother apparatus.
Until the known war criminals are prosecuted, this remains a nation whose ends employ the darkest criminal means.
“Until the known war criminals are prosecuted, this remains a nation whose ends employ the darkest criminal means.”
Very well put, thank you.
(Cont. from previous post re Alan Gross)
Who is Development Alternatives Inc.? (DAI)
According to Wikipedia:
Eva Golinger, a Venezuelan-American attorney and editor of the Correo del Orinoco, a web-and print-based newspaper which is financed by the Venezuelan government, claims that the DAI is a Central Intelligence Agency front organisation for their covert actions.[18] According to the Center for Media and Democracy’s SourceWatch, former CIA officer Philip Agee has also suggested involvement by Development Alternatives Inc. in aiding opposition to President Hugo Chávez in Venezuela.
Wikipedia further reports that:
“Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI) was founded in 1970 by Charles Franklin Sweet, Donald R. Mickelwait, and John M. Buck, who met at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Prior to enrolling in the M.P.A program at Harvard in 1969, Sweet had spent five years working in Vietnam for both International Voluntary Services and the United States Department of State. (Wikipedia: International Voluntary Services).
When Charles Franklin Sweet arrived in Vietnam in 1964, International Voluntary Services was operating as a subcontractor for USAID. “It was in the context of Vietnam and the Cold War that USAID was financing [a] relatively small-scale IVS project as part of the objective of “winning hearts and minds” and preventing Laos from falling into the hands of the communists.” USAID, in turn, was part of a largely uncoordinated effort by various US government agencies to advance a Psychological Warfare Operation that had been ongoing since 1954 to facilitate Vietnam’s transition from French rule.
Wikipedia reports that:
One of the most notable IVS volunteers was Edgar “Pop” Buell, a farmer from Steuben County, Indiana, who volunteered to work in agricultural development projects in Laos in 1960. Buell later became a senior USAID official in Laos and managed humanitarian relief to the Hmong people during the “Secret War” in which the Hmong, with backing from the United States Central Intelligence Agency, fought communist Pathet Lao forces.
(Wikipedia: International Voluntary Services).
In 1965, Jurisdiction of the Joint US Public Affairs Office (JUSPAO) was established and vested with the authority to oversee all propaganda efforts in an “effort to end disputes and lack of coordination between American and Vietnamese and between American Military and civilian agencies.” JUSPAO integrated the psychological operations of the US Information Services (USIS, USIA’s overseas arm), The State Department’s U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), the Joint Chief’s Military Assistance Command Vietnam (MACV), and the U.S. Embassy. (Source: U.S. Psychological Operations in Vietnam by Harry D. Latimer)
What is sorely lacking in this “Cuban Twitter” story is even a modicum of historical context. For instance, there is no mention of Alan Gross who was arrested, and subsequently convicted, of espionage by the Cuban government in 2009. At the time of his arrest, “Gross was working with Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI), a contractor working with USAID who had won a US$6 million U.S. government contract for the program in which Gross was involved, a controversial “democracy-promotion program” that ballooned under the Bush administration, to provide communications equipment to break the Cuban government’s ‘information blockade’.” (Wikipedia; Alan Philip Gross)
Mr Gross’ cover story, that he was providing satellite Internet equipment to Jewish Cuban groups, has since been called into question:
“As reported by the Jewish Daily Forward, Cuba’s small Jewish community of less than 2,000 people who mainly live in Havana, enjoys religious freedom, the possibility to emigrate to Israel, and has fairly good relations with the government under Raúl Castro,[2] but has little influence, making observers wonder why the United States provides material to them under a USAID program that usually targets dissidents.” (Wikipedia: Alan Philip Gross)
In providing the details of Gross’ activities, Associated Press reported:
“Gross did not identify himself as a representative of the U.S. government, but claimed to be a member of a Jewish humanitarian group. To escape Cuban authorities’ detection, he enlisted the help of American Jews to transport electronic equipment, instructing them to pack items a piece at a time in carry-on luggage, and also traveled with American Jewish humanitarian groups doing missions on the island so he could intercede with Cuban authorities if questions arose.”
At the time of his arrest, Gross was carrying a number of high tech communication devices including a chip that was designed to keep satellite phone transmissions from being located within 250 miles of the source.
Wikipedia further reports that, subsequent to his conviction, “Gross and his wife, Judith, sued Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI) and USAID for failing to adequately prepare, train and supervise him given the dangerous nature of the program’s activities. Reportedly, they are seeking $60 million compensatory damages. They filed another lawsuit, reportedly seeking $10 million from Gross’ insurer Federal Insurance Company for benefits they say the company has denied.” The NY Times reported that Gross’ case against the US Government was dismissed in 2013 due to a rule “barring lawsuits against the American government based on consequences suffered in foreign countries.”
(American Contractor Held in Cuba Loses a Lawsuit; By DAMIEN CAVE: Published: May 29, 2013)
*Sorry for the double post – the first one went to a location other than where it was intended.
Trained? Bullshit. These sub-human pond scum don’t know the meaning of “empathy”. … No human being on the planet could do what they do before killing them self. No, you can’t train a human to vaporize children.
Actually, that exact type of training has been implemented increasingly over time. Paul K. Chappell, a Westpoint graduate, Iraq war veteran and Peace Leadership Director for the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, describes that training in exquisite detail, and why there is a need for that kind of training in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRAOANK__r4
It’s a little over an hour long, but well worth the time.
p.s. When I say a “need for that training” I am referring to the need from the military’s perspective. There are a small percentage of human beings who are naturally psychopathic enough that they will do anything asked of them. But in order to have enough people who will kill on command, the military must – and does – use a bag of training tricks to get people to kill. Apparently, it is not as easy as some think to kill, but the training methods have been developed over time to compensate for that natural reluctance.
Mr. Chappell addresses this within the first half hour or so of the video. It really is tremendously enlightening.
On a side note – “…if we let people see that kind of thing, there would never again be any war.”
– Senior Pentagon official on the U.S. Military censors’ refusal to release video footage of Iraqi soldiers being sliced in half by helicopter cannon fire.
Having spent a considerable amount of time in a branch of the US Military, I can state that much military training is about survival of the individual in hostile environments and/or situations, but the underlying philosophy and psychology of the training is the concept of nationalism. Upon enlistment or commission, each person must take an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America and obey lawful orders of superiors to include those of the ultimate Commander In Chief which happens to be the POTUS.
Ultimately, it rests upon the individual to discern what is lawful and what is not. Generally speaking the Hague/Geneva convention established laws for land warfare which specifically prohibit firing upon innocents (in the broadest sense civilians, religious entities, and medical entities). Unfortunately, many Commanders in Chief (Presidents) have justified exactly those types of actions by using terms like “National Security” and “Terrorist” to brainwash the entire populace (includes military members) into believing that such identification will justify illegal actions.
“Brain-washing” under non-violent conditions (as opposed to torture or medical intervention) can be resisted with clear thinking and resolve.
There is no such thing as a “good or moral” war. All nations fight wars for asset and wealth accumulation to establish ultimate control in the International realm for the profit of the International Banking cartel who process “war proceeds” through the International Bank of Settlements.
That said, many veterans promote the concept of peace for the benefit of all humanity.
See: http://www.veteransforpeace.org/
You see….the individual “training” starts with socialization into societal norms further expanded by the education system in the United States, literally upon birth of the individual.
Oohh. This is dangerous. Independent thought. Much thanks.
Why is it Congress is mostly composed of the 2%? Nevermind.
Thanks for this link. I like the fight or flight analogy with the 80 year old woman and the pit bull…
Thanks for this Pedinska.
Where Does the Cruelty Come From?
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/003564.html
Excellent! Waging peace is more similar to waging war than dissimilar. It is active. It requires organization. It requires leadership. (Sorry, OWS.) And if you enlist in his movement you become part of the 1%, not the 99%, who will never do more than cheer from the sidelines. And, best of all, at the very end:
… and LOTS of other good stuff. Thanks, Pedinska!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRAOANK__r4
That Chomsky quote Chappell referenced impressed me too, barncat. I have often been dismayed by the rank prejudice and hypocrisy I find is accepted even among the so-called well-informed who otherwise eschew the Left/Right polarity so useful to the regime.
Far too often among those avid Greenwald devotees, I have seen some express rank hatred and pernicious dehumanization of those on the Right, amounting to ritual hate sessions that serve to glorify the Left mind-set by comparison to the Enemy. In mentioning at times that we need to clear ourselves of our favorite stereotypes and our Left-defining prejudices, I’ve been met with an astoundingly heavy silence.
The very worst aspect of some on the Left is the assumption they appear to cling to, that they are superior among humans, that their ideas should dominate all, and that if you don’t agree with them, you are a disposable. We see that manifest clearly among the Obots and Dbots, but it resides here BTL GG, too.
Better not get in their way – they’re on a mission that leads only to formalized Authoritarianism. And even as they claim dissidence to the policies tumbling down on us from the central government, they are either unwilling or incapable of seeing how their own demands, void of real humanity, have helped to create that Authoritarianism.
Remember also, as much as Chomsky correctly analyzed our predicament, personally and professionally he has lived in support of the Corporatocracy with its undermining of free thinking in the universities, where government/corporate money buys research and scientific inquiry including, too often, the conclusions of that not-so-free inquiry.
Thanks for the link, Pedinska – one of the most telling parts for me was when the presenter quoted George Orwell:
“One of the most horrible features of war is that all the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia, 1938
If we insist on having wars, maybe we should insist that it be a compulsory draft with no exclusions for anyone.
There’s more than one jaw-dropping aspect to this story. The calculated abuse of public trust is one. The disregard for US law is another. The one that really blew me away, though, was the revelation that our secret government–the one that feigned shock at Edward Snowden’s “theft” of numerous documents–has been holding annual conventions where it parades its achievements before an international audience. Where was the “need to know” in that? Undoubtedly, it was nice to have a little brag fest and see what the other folks were up to that could be incorporated into the our secret government’s own operations. But, manipulating social media is a skill any government can discover on its own; so, why risk exposing operations that our secret government routinely describes as vital to US security? By now, many of us realize that security takes a backseat to other considerations in US government decision making. What then, was the consideration underpinning these annual conventions?
The collective revelations of Edward Snowden and others paint a secret empire at work, turning constitutional governments into playthings for a shadowy peerage that pursues its own agenda. This threat to representative government, even more than privacy issues, should be the focus of public concern.
Bravo
Does anybody else see that the trackers here oscilate between one and three.
Most peculiar.
If your anti tracking add-ons scan the page when one (gravatar) shows whilst the page runs two more arrive, Mixpanel and google analytics show.
The page is scanned with one tracker and then the other two appear without being scanned.
Fiendish ain’t they.
Do you care Intercept?
Mona do not reply.
James Fingleton Wild, kelly1880 and bannedagain quickly say hello and look at the 2009 conference for applied minds inc the disney offshoot.
On a role after 18 hours I get through with subterfuge.
Mona do not reply with your crapflooding. How much of the thread do you claim.
I worked out how you do it intercept.
Disney partnership like the NSA.
You mean Applied Mind Inc don’t you jim.
Yes kelly says bannedagain.
Just dontsufferfoolsgladly jim.
I will keep it all in mind and I will apply it daily.
I’ve seen may posts of yours and I’m now very curious.
I have zero tech skills and have no idea about what you are saying is wrong here. However, I trust no one, so please explain your misgivings so just a regular computer user can understand them. Is the Intercept tracking me?
– “many’ posts, not ‘may posts,’ though the latter is nicely poetic.
My avatar did vanish twice.. How peculiar is oscillating between 1 and 3 and can you expand on this.
Do I need to inform Aunt Sally of this oscillation?
Excuse you!
You might enjoy reading this:
http://dprogram.net/2014/04/07/obama-issues-threats-russia-nato/#more-152382
Under the auspices of advancing NATO objectives, the United States has to protect the International Banking Cartel under UN mandate. Wars, wars, and rumors of wars fueled by the Petro-dollar.
Thank you. Big Money has many eager defenders.
Strictly off-topic, for sure, but pardon me please if I pick up on the Seymour Hersh thread introduced here by several commentators:- I find it spooky but of some real significance, whatever that might be, that rt.com — which is ordinarily religious in its daily coverage of events compromising of and embarrassing to the USA; and which has always taken the stance that the Syrian sarin-attacks were actually a false flag ‘imposture’ operation intended to lure Obama into a war — has so far failed to pick up on this latest Syria / USA / Turkey reportage and to feature it on its website. Could it be that rt.com has been advised by its friends-in-high-places (@ Moscow) not to make anything of the story because, for some or other reason, it does not hold water and risks being exposed as a fundamentally untenable construction? Or, perhaps, because to feature it might imperil the relative stability of Russo-Turkish relations? — In any case, it is noteworthy that, during the past 24 hours, both the US and Turkish governments have, in effect, with their blanket denials of any such scenario as that alleged by Hersh, accused him of being either a dysfunctional journalist and/or a dysfunctional liar. Wouldn’t The Intercept like to invite Hersh to respond at some length in its “Voices” column? I imagine he might even have a trump or two up his sleeve, still left to play.
Sorry, I meant to write “a functional liar”.
ot
‘moon of alabama’
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/04/hersh-turkey-behind-sarin-attack-in-syria.html
ht – coram nobis
What is sorely lacking in this “Cuban Twitter” story is even a modicum of historical context. For instance, there is no mention of Alan Gross who was arrested, and subsequently convicted, of espionage by the Cuban government in 2009. At the time of his arrest, “Gross was working with Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI), a contractor working with USAID who had won a US$6 million U.S. government contract for the program in which Gross was involved, a controversial “democracy-promotion program” that ballooned under the Bush administration, to provide communications equipment to break the Cuban government’s ‘information blockade’.” (Wikipedia; Alan Philip Gross)
Mr Gross’ cover story, that he was providing satellite Internet equipment to Jewish Cuban groups, has since been called into question:
“As reported by the Jewish Daily Forward, Cuba’s small Jewish community of less than 2,000 people who mainly live in Havana, enjoys religious freedom, the possibility to emigrate to Israel, and has fairly good relations with the government under Raúl Castro,[2] but has little influence, making observers wonder why the United States provides material to them under a USAID program that usually targets dissidents.” (Wikipedia: Alan Philip Gross)
In providing the details of Gross’ activities, Associated Press reported:
“Gross did not identify himself as a representative of the U.S. government, but claimed to be a member of a Jewish humanitarian group. To escape Cuban authorities’ detection, he enlisted the help of American Jews to transport electronic equipment, instructing them to pack items a piece at a time in carry-on luggage, and also traveled with American Jewish humanitarian groups doing missions on the island so he could intercede with Cuban authorities if questions arose.”
At the time of his arrest, Gross was carrying a number of high tech communication devices including a chip that was designed to keep satellite phone transmissions from being located within 250 miles of the source.
Wikipedia further reports that, subsequent to his conviction, “Gross and his wife, Judith, sued Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI) and USAID for failing to adequately prepare, train and supervise him given the dangerous nature of the program’s activities. Reportedly, they are seeking $60 million compensatory damages. They filed another lawsuit, reportedly seeking $10 million from Gross’ insurer Federal Insurance Company for benefits they say the company has denied.” The NY Times reported that Gross’ case against the US Government was dismissed in 2013 due to a rule “barring lawsuits against the American government based on consequences suffered in foreign countries.”
(American Contractor Held in Cuba Loses a Lawsuit; By DAMIEN CAVE: Published: May 29, 2013)
Okay, at last (April 9), RT has delivered with news of Sy Hersh’s exposé — but with an Op-Ed by Nile Bowie. Vide:-
rt.com/op-edge/syria-war-crime-sarin-345/
Are we going to get any groundbreaking leaks that are already affecting our lives now, or are we going to wait 5 years? I mean really this is playing out like bait propaganda. I have been reading MR. Greewald for many years, and respect his perspective on things, but c’mon! This website is starting to feel like Alternet, i don’t want political credo i want the information.
I imagine, having followed thousands of comment threads on the subject of Palestine, that Israel is a master of online propaganda posing as opinion.
A retrospective view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6p5QPVhPI
I’m sure you have your reasons for not making The Intercept like-able on Facebook, but It would make it a lot easier to spread the word if you did.
In memoriam to my mother. Judith was her first name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTgKRCXybSM
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww138/Napewaste/FullMoonValley.png
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww138/Napewaste/TortureAltar2ndDet.jpg
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww138/Napewaste/TortureAltar_PhBu.jpg
I hope this one goes through. That S. Hersh interview should be good (when I get to check it out).
Marcy Wheeler did finally write about Judge Collyer’s decision to dismiss Al-Awaki’s lawsuit (pardon me if misspelled). She also has a link to a very good article about the Bivens aspect of it by a Steve Vladeck.
Marcy’s Article is at: http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/04/07/judge-collyers-factually-erroneous-freelance-rubber-stamp-for-killing-american-citizens/
Ms. Wheeler shares her opinion regarding Judge Collyer’s decision to throw out “the Bivens challenge to the drone killings of Anwar and Abdulrahman al-Awlaki and Samir Khan.”
http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/04/07/judge-collyers-factually-erroneous-freelance-rubber-stamp-for-killing-american-citizens/#more-41970
The SCOTUS Blog provides an interesting brief history of the al-Awaki legal case results and notes the appellate options regarding Judge Collyer’s decision.
“Although government officials did not win on their plea that such claims should be barred completely from the courts, they did win on their argument that the courts cannot create a remedy for targeted killings without intruding on the powers of the president and Congress to wage war.”
“The survivors of those killed by the drones have the option of appealing the case to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit and, ultimately, to the Supreme Court.”
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/04/drone-killing-policy-withstands-challenge-2/
Also notice that US media keeps claiming innocent-killing (collateral damage) US drone strikes are decreasing. In Pakistan, yes, because people have had enough of it and can complain substantially enough to have an impact.
In Yemen, drone bombing has been increasing at quite a pace. But hardly anyone one mentions that.
Giant Portrait Answers “Bug Splat” Mentality
“The giant portrait was installed by an artist collective in the region of Khyber Pukhtoonkhwa in Pakistan, an area where drone attacks occur on a fairly regular basis.
The next time a drone operator looks down, he or she will be seeing the face of an innocent child instead of clusterings of white, shapeless blobs.”
That is really something. Thank you. I’m moved to tears.
”
Thanks for sharing this Kitt.
Unfortunately, the camera feeds to the drone operators have most likely already been digitally “enhanced” to show the picture as being just another part of the field, or (given the mindset of our “intelligence” agencies) some unthinking, infantile hack from the NSA has turned it into a portrait of bin Laden with a bulls-eye on it…
I wouldn’t be surprised if the picture is destroyed accidentally by a hellfire missile. Trying to appeal to the humanity of drone operators seems naive. Those guys are clearly trained to do away with empathy, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to kill people whose identities they don’t even know.
That’s right, you just don’t lead them that much because they’re slower and weaker.
This country has gone as totally berserk as all empires inevitably do.
Enjoy your Rabbit. (h/t Sufjan Stevens)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd9OhYroLN0
I’m not sure about that. Drone operators experience PTSD. To the point that industry will eventually anthropomorphize the drone, to ameliorate the “debilitating” perception of agency.
http://io9.com/psychologists-propose-horrifying-solution-to-ptsd-in-dr-1453349900
No man is an island, blah blah blah.
And then:
That is the crux of the problem: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome – PTSD, in this example, presents itself ONLY after someone is dead, etc…
Why not have a society in which we instead replace the first “P,” “Post” with “P” as in “Pre.”
Therefore, we would as humans regard such incidents from a pre-traumatic standpoint, and AVOID IT – thus negating the existing PTSD aspect altogether.
Regards,
Sillyputty
quote”Those guys are clearly trained to do away with empathy, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to kill people whose identities they don’t even know.”unquote
Trained? Bullshit. These sub-human pond scum don’t know the meaning of “empathy”. That’s why they are drone pilots. No human being on the planet could do what they do before killing them self. No, you can’t train a human to vaporize children. But you can train a sub-human piece of shit to fly a drone.
Agreed. The framing of “disorder” in PTSD is also problematic for our war based society, as “order” rounds up to killing without emotional baggage.
The reason I brought up PTSD was to show that even through the layers that make killing easy and distant, blobs on a video camera and lethal remote control, some of the operators are still affected by what they’re doing. As Pedinska points out above, human nature has to be trained out of you. So I think it’s worth appealing to what’s left. I’m not sure this project will save any lives, or souls, but it might, and that’s enough.
Kitt– loved that image and the site; I’m going to forward it to our art department, as many of the projects look fascinating, and I know our department really works to make art that speaks to social justice. They did a project two years ago where they worked all year at a women’s homeless shelter. Girls volunteered on a weekly basis at the shelter, interviewed and helped write the women’s biographies, and the art students painted their portraits. The drama department then wrote a play about homelessness featuring all of the women, who played themselves. The school had an official showing of the art work, biographies, and play. Every year the girls put on a monumental fundraiser (they spend the whole year preparing for it) and that year they gave all of the proceeds to that shelter. It was an absolutely amazing project that the girls embraced wholeheartedly, and we continue to work closely with that shelter. Many students have remained in close touch with the women.
Sillyputty- I’m with you in wishing we could someone start staring at those letters and get to the point where we aren’t planning for the “post” in the lead-up to the denouement. Taking out the “S” –a monumental investment–might help us reject war altogether, but apparently some like to keep us in hyper stress mode all the time because it’s an endless well to tap into.
Titonwan– Empire gone berserk….you said it. Too many signs that the wheels are off this damn bus. At this point, I envision a sorry-assed donkey pulling an old school bus (sans wheels) as it lurches down a rutted track. To say we aren’t firing on all cylinders is an understatement. “Rabbit” …we’ll hope it’s what’s for dinner, or that there is any (dinner or rabbits).
Thanks, Kitt.
Notice how the “Feinstein is emotional” charge is supposed to rally the bases of the duopoly.
Both Democrats and Republicans are agitated, the Democrats through political correctness (“How dare he say that about a woman?” and the Republicans through gut-level reactionary backlash (“They just want to blame us, screw that.”)
But look carefully. Already it is said the report suggests no punishments for the torturers or those who ordered them to do what they did. This dust-up is just for show.
THIS IS THEATER. They are all on the same ‘side’ (corruption). This includes Obama, who is neither left nor right, for the record, he’s an authoritarian militarist who serves corporatism. They are ALL this way.
Thanks for the perfectly succinct comment, Cindy. I would just make one minor correction if I may? It is [Bad] Theatre : )
Thanks right back atcha! You’re so right, it is AWFUL theater, without noble themes or even interesting characters! A bunch of cadavers grappling for the closest position to money and power. TV glamorizes this crap, but it is revoltingly stale storytelling re-hashing the Staid Conservatives and the Cool Liberals as idiotically and stereotypically as the movie “Footloose.”
It’s caricature. And we are supposed to live it. It’s fucking ridiculous.
And it coincides with Obama upping the stakes against the evermore restrictive War on Women so deep in the hearts of the hated ones under the R banner. Stage left – enter the pant-suited Clinton ready to assume her position as the First Woman Prez.
Prepare for more of the same… but progressively worse.
“You just don’t like Obama because he’s black.”
“You just don’t like Hillary because she’s a woman.”
Oh yes, they’re BANKING on that.
For the record, both Republicans and Democrats are worthless to me.
Imagineers the 2009 conference had Applied minds Inc handing out awards to the NSA.
http://appliedminds.com/
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This has already been posted, but it shouldn’t get lost in the clutter, cuz everyone should read it:
This is not getting picked up by mainstream media thus far. That’s expected, but also remarkable for a couple reasons: (1) Sy Hersh is one of the most respected investigative journalists in the world; (2) It contains the following sentence: “US intelligence has long known that al-Qaida experimented with chemical weapons.” How can that not be of interest to Americans?
quote” How can that not be of interest to Americans?”unquote
Easy..it doesn’t contain the words..Football, pizza, beer, Kardashian ass, Miley Cyrus, idol, or Pistorias, or movie.
President Obama’s administration and/or the White House wanted to bomb Syria to “create more pain for Bashar” and like Iraqi, all based upon a lie (with “high confidence”).
{Quote: “We knew that the radicals were—had used—the jihadist groups had access to *nerve agent* and had used it against Syrian soldiers in March and April. Those incidents that were always described by our government as being the responsibility of the rebels, with *high confidence*, it’s just not so. And the report makes it clear. We have had a huge problem before the August attack in—near Damascus. We knew about this potential for months before. We just—it’s the kind of information, for some reason, it doesn’t fit with what the administration wanted to hear, so it just never got out.” End quote} (* emphases are mine)
Democracy Now! Video transcript (recommend the video)
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/7/sy_hersh_reveals_potential_turkish_role
The fact that the US backed rebels may be the ones using chemical weapons is the point that authoritarian/establishmentarian Americans do not wish to hear.
Hersh says it.
Thus his words are buried.
Thank you for posting.
You should have someone redesign your comment section, it’s quite drab and a labor to read.
Please pardon me seizing this opportunity for an off-topic remark:-
I propose that The Intercept consider publishing future news-essays from Seymour Hersh.
I fear that what he has had to report and say of late in The London Review of Books is getting overlooked.
The Internet used to be the greatest democratizing tool progressives had. Anyone could use it. If you didn’t have a computer you could use the library. (Which is an example of how issues are interrelated. Libraries cutting hours and services and closing branches severely limits access to information for people who have very few other ways to get it.) Then the Internet came a playground for commercial interests. Now the government is working with private companies to use the Internet to propagandize without people’s knowledge. It’s one thing if you see ads from stores and corporations all over the Internet, at least you know what they are. But if the government is now using fake private entities to spread misinformation and outright lies and to spy on people, we have no defense against that. Those of us who read articles and news sources like The Intercept are obviously going to be better informed, but how many people do? And even for those of us who do, how deep do most people go? I read this entire article, every word, but many people won’t. And beyond that, how many people will click the links in the article. I was telling myself as I was reading, “I should look at every one of these links Glenn has in this article and read all *those* articles,” and as I said that to myself, I already felt mentally exhausted. I know I’m not going to do it. I don’t have the energy. I have the interest but not the energy. I’d rather be reading Middlemarch. Nothing wrong with that, but it bothers and worries me. If even someone like me — a political junkie who is probably better informed than 98% of Americans — isn’t going to thoroughly familiarize herself with a given topic, certainly less committed people won’t.
It probably doesn’t matter anyway. Journalism seems to be all about winning awards. No one really believes that change is possible.
Life seems to be all about winning awards :-)
How people treat you is their karma. How you react is yours.
As a journalist, my moral compass and a nagging pile of whistleblowing information kept pointing me back to environmental issues. Chasing toxic waste dumpers and getting threatened by mobsters eventually wore me out, however, along with the realization that nothing I did changed a thing in the long run, even though I got a few factories closed and a few people in temporary trouble. While the moral compass still points squarely at the reality that we’re committing mass suicide, I’ve reverted to an earlier modality and am meeting my societal obligations with music. Here’s an anthem meant to piss people off and get them thinking environmentally. Scream your anger!!!https://soundcloud.com/biff-thuringer/to-america
This is just a symptom of the horrific confluence of left wing and right wing foreign policy arrogance in the U.S. The busy body “RTP” left (Powers, Rice and Clinton now) are hard to distinguish from NeoCons wrt policy. One of the subjects that doesn’t get discussed is the Obama admin’s massive increases – mainly via the State Dept – in the use of ‘soft power’ and ‘govt to people diplomacy’ around the world. The CIA has actually stepped back from the worst kinds of propaganda and rabble rousing operations, and now the State Dept and USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy and many other organizations – governmental and NGO – are meddling in the affairs of dozens of countries around the world.
One has to believe a very distorted version of history to pursue these kind of policies, one in which the U.S is seen as a “moral” leader in the world (Hilary just lamented our falling moral status which she claimed she was trying to uphold as SecState – ooops, wow, come puke came up the back my throat while I typed it). At least the NeoCons have an excuse – they are merely nationalists who see stability as a necessary condition to project U.S. global hegemony. Sure, they’ll use the “spreading democracy” meme to justify our hubris and interventions, but they aren’t consciously lying to themselves.
On the other hand, we have cretins like Clinton who having come up through the left should know that actual history of U.S. intervention in the 20th century. WWII was really the only “necessary” war, and even then, we were highly provocative in drawing ourselves into that conflict in Europe and in Asia. She should know that our efforts to “spread democracy” via propaganda and by supporting “activists” (read rebels and terrorists in their local societies) in efforts like Project Gladio or CointelPro domestically all failed and backfired on us. The Left has a higher burden here given the critical narrative of U.S. power it has offered.
But we see now that the left is as morally bankrupt and corrupt as the right. The left hasn’t had a better standard bearer than the pre-POTUS radical, Obama (and if you don’t know Obama’s radical past, that’s okay, just don’t argue about it – he’s made common cause with the most radical leftist across the entire political spectrum for his entire life), yet it’s failing at foreign policy and floundering. One little tidbit for you. Under Obama, in 2013, U.S. special forces were deployed in 134 different countries (some training and joint exercises and advising, etc) – about double the number they were deployed to in 2008.
Today’s leftist icon should be of a SpecForces operator killing indigenous peoples who resist U.S. hegemony. But hey, that would be honest and I don’t expect any of that from the left anymore than I do the right.
Last. If Glenn Greenwald wants to see some great, hard hitting journalism, he should read Seymour Hirsch’s piece on Syria in the London Review of Books from April 6th. Here’s the article http://www.lrb.co.uk/2014/04/06/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line It makes this issue seem quite like small beer in comparison.
I like what you wrote with one small quibble… there is no political left in this country to speak of. There are only the neo-liberal war mongers of the Democratic party.
Obama and Clinton only pretended to be on the left to get some of those who want social policies to be more fair, and who would not pay close attention to war crimes… unless perhaps a republican commits enough of them to really stand out.
That is not a political left, that is an opportunistic political hucksterism of epic proportions. We have been sold a bill of goods that has the stench of rotting fish that defines the Democratic party. They are neither liberal or of the left unless those terms do not mean what they used to.
Yup. The “War Party” has no isle.
And now I am off to read the article you linked to by Seymour Hersh. He is one of the greats!
Thanks, John
Great run of posts there.
Agree with all.
” The War Party has no isle (and crosses the aisle)” could be our epitaph. The only thing our Dear Leaders rally around is the MIC May Pole. They fall all over themselves to ease through any statute, law, or decree that makes making war easier.
Also love Seymour Hersh, one of the last great standard bearers for real journalism.
Sy was on DemocracyNow today. Here’s the link to his interview. http://youtu.be/Xe9atAZMgk4
Let’s try to keep it simple rather than slipping into silliness. Are you seriously going to tell me Barack Obama isn’t a man of the left? That he didn’t spend his whole life steeped in radical, leftist ideology and with radical ideologues?
Yes, he governs like a incompetent clown – but I could have told you that was the outcome before he got the job. He’s a loudmouth, a poser, a caricature – not a leader. He held no real positions of leadership in his life before becoming POTUS. And if you look at the elections he “won” it was either through dirty tricks or by he was facing complete buffoons like McCain and Clinton. There was nothing in his resume so suggest he had the courage of his convictions, was a real leader or had any real success in anything he’d ever attempted in his life based on pure merit.
Tell me, did you believe Barack wasn’t a man of the left in 2008? He’s a joke and in way over his head – that’s the real story.
Obama positioned himself when first running for election to look something vaguely like a liberal (not even remotely a radical one) but if you think any of his enacted policies fall in the line with the “radical left,” you’re delusional. His harshest critics by far, and those who have every right to talk about his betrayal of his agenda, are on the left (and even in the middle) … for a reason.
Then the remaining comment does just that.
That most politicians are almost all corporatist and warmongers and panderers to the same is the point here.
That’s the real story. Getting carried away with adjective inflected rants actually detracts from the point made, rather than reinforces it.
Sillyputty, the problem is that the left is unwilling to accept any blame, let alone the blame. It’s always ‘right of this,’ ‘right of that.’
Do you really think someone on the left would’ve said “let’s look forward, not backward” on Bush war crimes? That makes zero sense.
What’s the use for all these labels other than to have an excuse not to engage someone’s argument? People either believe in principles and act on them, or they don’t.
Impeccable logic, Jose.
Oh, gosh, I hadn’t considered that. What a joke. Tell me, anyone on this thread – did you think Obama was a man of the left when you voted for him in 2008? You only change your mind after he shows how impractical it is to implement many leftist ideas.
“Let’s try to keep it simple rather than slipping into silliness. Are you seriously going to tell me Barack Obama isn’t a man of the left? ”
The left I am a part of does not ignore war crimes or admitted war criminals, let wall street run rampant, go along with social services cuts for the poor just to make deals with the very fascists that facilitated the economic disaster in the first place.
The left I am part of does not drone bomb in multiple countries killing thousands, does not torture hunger strikers, does not deport children’s parents by the hundreds of thousands etc. etc. etc.
The proof is the actions of a person, or group of persons, not in their rhetoric. Surely a smart guy like you knows this? Obama is a centrist war monger. I am constantly amazed that the right wing does not love him. I guess his weak rhetorical support for gay rights scares them off. He truly is the more effective evil as Black Agenda Report points out on a regular basis… and accurately so.
Not so amazing though is how many centrist, status quo, members of that War Party recognize Hillary as one of their own, and not just for her complexion. Ready to support the Patriot Act (twice), the Iraq invasion and “obliterating” countries of 75 million should they attack Israel puts her nowhere near the left and perhaps even to the right of some blue-dogs. That she didn’t support same-sex marriage until last year and has never led on ANY progressive issue, though still trying to repeatedly claim the label, makes her a DINO republican to most folks calling themselves “left.” Probably preaching to the choir… Sorry.
OUR country tricked into picking her will be another tough swallow.
I won’t tell you Obama isn’t a man of the left. I’ll let people on the right do that for me.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/12/8/his_nickname_is_george_w_obama
Others, in various ways, have exposed and destroyed your “Obama is a leftist” routine, but the sentence quoted above is another destruction of your oh so commonly trotted out game. I don’t know what it is that you think you gain by trying to jam Obama’s square peg into the round hole, but beating Hilary Clinton in a primary election wasn’t accomplished because Hilary Clinton is a “buffoon.” There are a whole lot of negative descriptions one can apply to Hilary Clinton; buffoon isn’t one of them. In a Democratic Party primary race, she, by any measure on earth, would have to be described as having been an extremely tough to beat opponent.
Obama was never a leftist. Not ever. In the Illinois state senate he was center/right all the way. That’s a matter of public record. In the US senate his mentor was Lieberman. He went to Connecticut to campaign for Lieberman over Ned Lamont. Some radical.
Thank you for posting.
I have no trouble w/ the U.S. (or any other sovereign nation) tooting its own horn. If they have something good to report, more power to them.
But this is ridiculous Glenn. Plus a waste of money in these budget-cutting times. If the USAID/NSA et el want to create false narratives pushing BS serendipitously over Fake Internet social media, they should use The Fake Silly Comment Generator … *for free*.
For example, here is what TFSCG could say about this article (& associated commentators) for free:
>”Seriously, commentators. Bit of adultness might be in order. Sadly, I was correct and they were wrong. It’s as if cranks have been in deep hibernation and only just awoke with NO knowledge of the damage caused by Cuba and just accepting everything has got to change and is going to get worse, much worse, because a latter-day Nostradamus has said so. All we hear about is Grim Gloomworld. They are not interested in this question. They just want a stick to beat USAID with.”
cc Zelda
Had one last thing to add:
It should not surprise anyone that GG’s every word is scrutinized and also who he chooses to publish with is questioned. He has been entrusted with vital information that needs to be disclosed that requires the public to trust his decisions regarding the documents. This fact should not be seconded to his reporting on it. It is probably even more difficult for those who have different views to trust one man who’s views are not the same as theirs.
Despite Mona’s crapflooding of ignorance, free speech is regularly banned here.
I just read the SIGDEV conference PDF referenced above. It uses a remarkably modern web font. It is NOT a scan of a paper document. Was the source a PDF? This available PDF ain’t original, nor a copy of something.
Just what is it?
Ummm…where’s my last post? Went off site and have since refreshed a couple of times. I hope it shows up.
James Clapper has decided that if your last post is posted then the terrorists will win. If it is hidden from the American Public (TM) for their own good, then America wins, F^&( Yeah!
You want America to win don’t you? Then you will abide by the rules of what you are allowed to know about your government and what you are not allowed to know about your government. If you ask questions the terrorists win. If you read this website the terrorists win. Please continue to not do or think things which might make it easier for terrorists to win (TM).
Have a nice day and please drive through!
It takes about two days for comments to show up. Do you know how much spam this site gets from the NSA twatterbot, that’s a lot of twats and links to malware to sort through?
This. This is what I need for sanity. Pure insanity from/or my best frenemy- ‘The Last Name Stolen’.
I love/hate him/her/it and choose/deny ever knowing such an animal/vegetable/beast/nowirehangers.
@Titonwan
:) I aim to please/piss off.
I’m puzzled at the silence of TI on that decision to dismiss the drone strike lawsuit.
With Jeremy’s knowledge and previous work on drone strikes, I’m very surprised he’s had nothing to say on this. And Glenn, being a constitutional lawyer – I would think he would have something to say about (what I consider some pretty bad) legal reasoning – and implications especially for the system of checks and balances of our three branches of government. And of course, there’s the overriding issue of the government being able to take lives on what could be faulty intel and without any due process. And not even Marcy Wheeler, who did say she’d write about this later, hasn’t yet.
I hope I’m not being too impatient, but it seems to me this is a biggie – and one that the mainstream media has pretty much ignored. The Intercept could help folks know about it and bring to it some perspective. So how about it?
Fuck no you did not. Hell no, shit damned the dog ate the cat, piss poop on a yearling I can’t believe it all has shat a hatfull of donkey dung, If’n I can be so polite.
Quoting James Joyce will get you nowhere here. Believe me, it’s been tried.
O’tay. I’ll tack left, matey. Arrgh.
“Fuck no you did not. Hell no, shit damned the dog ate the cat, piss poop on a yearling I can’t believe it all has shat a hatfull of donkey dung, If’n I can be so polite.”
Yes, but what of your damnable Sky god? Surely, any good string of vulgar inanity requires a benchmark by which ones anomie can becomes more fully realized and appreciated by those of like mind.
But these men, with no more sense than the unreasoning brute beasts which are born to be caught and killed, scoff at things outside their own experience, and will most certainly be destroyed in their own corruption. Their wickedness has earned them an evil end and they will be paid in full.
These men are like wells without a drop of water in them, like the changing shapes of whirling storm-clouds, and their fate will be the black night of utter darkness. […]
With their high-sounding nonsense they use the sensual pull of the lower passions to attract those who were just on the point of cutting loose from their companions in misconduct. They promise them liberty. Liberty! —when they themselves are bound hand and foot to utter depravity. For a man is the slave of whatever masters him.
Well said, Wilhelmina!
Wilhelmina,
When mass quoting and/or copying and pasting anothers words, please supply quotation marks around them, and cite the sources for these. Thank you.
Regards,
Sillyputty
To avoid any confusion – this is to provide clarity to what you say – not to restrict what you say.
Regards,
Sillyputty
There is, in fact, more free speech here than at virtually any other major political site the U.S or U.K. Frankly, I do not believe you’ve had comments deleted. And I write that as one who has extensively discussed moderation policy with Glenn in the past as well as recently about The Intercept.
To my knowledge, two account have been moderated since The Imtercept began, and to the extent one of them held political views, he is a far-right crapflooder.
Crapfloooding — VOLUME of obsessive shit — is overwhelmingly what will move Glenn to moderate someone, in order that the board not be swamped with literal nonsense. Viewpoint banning is non-existent (altho he did, at Salon, finally ban two *topics — regardless of viewpoint — that kept hijacking the threads).
Again, I am greatly skeptical that you’ve had comments deleted, and assure you there is no freer speech to be had at a political site (that moderates at all) than there is here.
We understand each other completely.
I too did not suppress freedom any more than was absolutely necessary. It is generally sufficient to brandish the threat of censorship and commentators, who are generally a pusillanimous lot, will start to self censor. Then all you need to do is ban one or two of the more innocuous posters and the rest will scurry into line. After that, the job of your secret police is very easy. One or two executions a month is all that’s needed to keep the populace suitably impressed.
Since there is no viewpoint discrimination here (and never has been where Glenn controlled moderation) — and Glenn has not even banned for “abuse” or “hate speech” — no one need self-censor, unless they wish to crapflood.
It’s scandalously true: Glenn doesn’t well tolerate someone posting 10% of the comments when said comments are absurd, redundant crap. Regardless of political viewpoint — if there even is a discernible one.
Perhaps we don’t understand each other as well as I thought. Censorship is the exercise of force, applied to arbitrarily chosen topics and arbitrary criteria concerning volume of postings. Once you assert the prerogative to exercise force unilaterally, the particular justification is no longer important – it can easily be changed on a whim. I thought you were acknowledging that all human interactions are based purely on power and that appeals to higher principles are just self serving rationalizations.
Crapflooders can (and often seek to) destroy a comments section by making substantive discussion — from any or all viewpoints — difficult if not impossible. Banning them is responsive “violence.”
As for this:
I do not acknowledge that, and do not believe it.
We had a problem with crapflooders in Italy in the 1930s too. My OVRA became so good, they could recognize and ban them before they’d made even a single post. They have a sort of furtive expression, which is unmistakable once you learn to recognize it. That wouldn’t work over the internet, but as the NSA is so usefully instructing us, there are other ways to obtain information.
“Crapflooding” is the online equivalent of the flesh-and-blood world attempt to shout others down by sheer volume. That is tantamount to “peer censorship”. We are seeing this also in our political campaigns where the goal of some is not to convince people to “vote for their guy”, but rather, to convince as many people as possible to “stay home”. Karl Rove’s Crossroads GPS is notorious for putting up extremely offensive ads. Their strategy is just as I described– get people to opt out of civics, so that their highly-motivated minority that they control will be the deciding voices.
I don’t doubt that “crapflooders” have the same agenda. They’re not trying to be persuasive– but rather trying to create such a hostile, negative environment on these comment boards, that people opt out of reading them (or even the articles).
quote”We had a problem with crapflooders in Italy in the 1930s too. “unquote
And here I thought your only problem was a serious addiction to Synthetic Lobotomy Serum. I underestimated. You are simply a lunatic.
From the sheep’s point of view, the wolf is insane. He does not follow herd behavior. And yet, the wolf is perfectly satisfied with his lot.
Knowing your limitations is rational, but self defeating. That is why it is lunatics who rule the world.
@Benito Mussolini
The problem with society is social pressure. This is why leadership is so lonely.
This is also why private property is so problematic. Too many castles makes too many kings.
@Benito Mussolini: Are you so dense that you don’t see the distinction between a private company moderating comments on its publication and the government curtailing speech? Or are you too in love with your facile act to care?
Frankly, The Intercept can do whatever it likes with its comments section. From what I’ve seen, they only moderate comments which are pretty much evidently pointless and destructive to the framework of a comments section.
If someone was posting hundreds of times with 100-line posts filled with nothing but hashtags and random numbers, making discussion physically impossible, would you call banning that person a curtailment of free speech? Would you continue to make your asinine comparisons to Italian fascism?
I guess you probably would, huh.
I am totally in favor of a private company censoring comments (or ‘moderating’ if your sensibilities tend more towards euphemisms). And you are correct; it’s even more important for the government to so, since they are charged with the general welfare. In both cases, the underlying dynamic is the same however; they do it because they have the power to do so.
But I never described myself as a free speech advocate while suppressing the views of others. Let’s not pretend this site banned commenters for ‘100-line posts filled with nothing but hashtags'; they banned the posts because they did not agree with the ‘far right’ position advocated (or was that merely a coincidence?). By banning RevCommunete, this site only serves to support his contention that censoring free speech is what leftwingers do. And he was the only poster who described Benito Mussolini as a leftwinger – so I have a soft spot for him.
Wait, what? That was DisenfranchisedRevCommunete, or a different one? Was s/he really banned, and for what?
No one has done that here, either. Banning is not a by-product of a commenter’s viewpoint, but rather of VOLUME. When one’s comments constitute 10% of a lengthy thread — repeating essentially the same assertions — that, sir, is crapflooding. When one carries on like that in thread after thread, that is super-crapflooding.
The easy way to avoid being banned is to post at a reasonable volume.
C’est facile.
Thank you for the tip. One always has to tread carefully to avoid being banned on these websites dedicated to free speech. They tend to value their own freedom of speech, but not so much that of others – after all, the law does not compel them to permit free speech to anyone else, so why should they? Just because of the principle of the thing? Ha, ha, ha, what an amusing idea.
@Benito Mussolini: Aah I see, so for you avoiding crap-flooding (as defined by Mona) is so difficult as to be characterised as “treading carefully”. This provides an insight into your character and faculties.
@Wulfsten
On this site, you are banned for ‘crapflooding’ and for discussing ‘certain topics’ according to Mona. Let’s examine those compelling justifications for banning a commenter.
Crapflooding
Working definition: making more than a ‘reasonable’ number of posts in an attempt to ‘disrupt’ the discussion. In absence of any written standard, suppose a reasonable number is 25% of Mona’s comment volume. That could be implemented by simply placing a fixed limit on the number of posts by any one individual under any one article, rather than the harsher remedy of banning a commenter. But we know number of posts is not really the standard – the content is important too. So let’s say each commenter would be limited to two posts criticizing Glenn Greenwald or ten posts praising him. In reality, there is no upper limit on the number of posts permitted if they praise Greenwald or are critical of his opponents. But it seems prudent to demonstrate some respect for diversity of viewpoints. A 5:1 praise:criticism ratio should be tolerable to Greenwald’s fans, and still permit some of the adversarial debate in pursuit of truth that Greenwald himself supposedly holds so dear.
People maintain that crapflooding is a form of shouting that drowns out other speakers. This is a silly analogy, since it easy to scroll past those commenters you wish to ignore and read the comments of those who interest you. A comment site is more like a crowd of speakers all speaking, but with no volume. The visitor can choose to go to any speaker, turn on the volume and listen to what they say.
Remember, these are the same free speech advocates who say that freedom of speech is so important to generating new ideas, seeking consensus and disseminating information, that they would permit even hate speech – a form of speech that may cause demonstrable harm. They maintain the damage caused by the suppression of free speech is greater still. But all of sudden, they feel completely confident to ban a speaker for the sin of crapflooding because using a scroll button is an immeasurable burden which completely overides any consideration of free speech on the part of that individual.
Is the volume of such comments problematical? I think the servers of The Intercept can handle it. After all, they are not generating any huge volume of articles, and people coming to the site need something to read.
Banned Topics
This is also considered to be disruptive to the chorus of praise, er, I mean the informed discussion which is the intended function of the comment section. Yet in a nested system, these side discussions are nicely contained within a subthread, available to those who may be interested in reading them. Some sites with incomprehensibly advanced technology, apparently not available to The Intercept, even make such threads collapsible so that someone has to actively open the subthread in order to read it. It is laughable to call this a disruption and even more laughable to say the inconvenience it imposes necessitates overiding of the principle of free speech.
This is all somewhat amusing, given Greenwald’s frequent attacks on Democratic partisans for quickly abandoning their principles if the White House, for political expediency, decides to backtrack on one of their commitments. Yet on this site, once Greenwald actually bans commenters, a host of his supporters suddenly clamor to declare how free speech is not really that important, that the First Amendment is only a legal obligation on government and that no higher principles are involved – so sacrificing it to protect readers from inconvenience is really quite reasonable. Web sites in Russia and China suppress free speech, so how can any reasonable person complain if The Intercept does likewise?
The above is in no way a defense of free speech. After all, Benito Mussolini of all people is aware that those in positions of authority are immeasurably better equipped to weigh these competing interests, properly ‘moderate’ the political debate and suppress troublesome crapflooders and the like. I believe my reputation speaks for itself.
I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to support the principle of free speech, while at the same time approving of the banning of certain commenters.
@Benito Mussolini: Sorry, but your argument is no closer to being cogent. In terms of Crap-flooding, you raise a number of straw men (a cunning reference to Mussolini’s own rhetoric, perhaps? Nah, doubtful.)
You could indeed implement a system where a commenter could only comment a limited amount of times under a given article, but this is problematic in a number of ways. If an article only gets 100 comments, but 80 of them are the same poster making the same voluminous posts over and over, this should constitute crap-flooding. However, if an article gets 1,500 comments, then 80 posts could actually just be indicative of participation in an active and lengthy discussion. It’s much more elegant to simply rely on the intelligence of posters themselves to make sure they are being considerate and concise in their posting, and to only remove the real outliers who don’t seem to want to stop trolling.
The content of posts in terms of whether they praise or criticise Glenn has literally no bearing on whether they are removed, and I would challenge you to prove otherwise. This is pretty obvious as almost every article by Glenn features a huge cadre of haters who seem intent on following him around and attacking him. By “attacking”, I mean posting discredited ad hominem attacks on his character and history, rather than actually discussing, disagreeing, and refuting the points of the article themselves. These are left up for all the world to see.
That said, some forms of speech are unacceptable, and should be banned. For example: doxing someone (revealing their real name, address, contact details); clearly abusive posts with no discursive merit (racial or homophobic epithets, or pointless personal insults). This is not “criticism”.
On the above, the distinction must be made again (for the truly simple-minded) between a government banning certain speech and a publication banning it. I would not advocate for the government to ban the use of racist epithets. This would be overreaching and authoritarian. A private company, however, should feel free to do so. I would expect a restaurant to eject a customer if he were to start screaming abuse at another guest. I would expect a newspaper to fire a journalist who wrote a meandering, hateful screed against Jews. These are separate issues. Do you still not see how the public and private spheres are distinct? Benito Mussolini certainly didn’t, which is why he was an asshole and an idiot. Are you?
In terms of crap-flooding drowning out other commenters, your argument is disingenuous. In the above example where a 100 comment list is filled out with 80 very similar, very lengthy comments, you could certainly scroll past these and find other comments, but this degrades the reader’s experience and discourages people from participating in the debate. Would you read a book wherein 80% (or even 25%) of each page was filled with paragraphs of gibberish? Sure, you could just look past the gibberish, but it makes your experience worse.
Private property problematic! Not true. It is the human who owns it that is problematic, and the people who jealously blame his ownership of private property for their own dissatisfaction and thereby support and complement the problem.
When humans learn it is their own unworthy self-indulgences that are at the roots of the human condition, they will stop blaming others and begin to be the solution for the problematic human condition that has been around since day one.
Banning crap-flooders is akin to time, place and manner restrictions that apply to the free speech clause of the First Amendment. Greenwald is as “hypocritical” for banning crapflooding as is the U.S. legal system for not permitting you to blast your message with a bullhorn in a residential neighborhood at 3 a.m.
Glenn decides when a commenter is crapflooding. It’s hard to to be deemed one, and very few have been. The two who showed up here were already known as such from his prior sites, and at least one was banned at Salon, and she was also moderated for crapflooding at CiF.
As for the topics Glenn banned, it was really only one (the other was a crap-flooding ideologue who would not stop swamping the place with his missionary zeal). Glenn’s comment space was becoming overwhelmed, in thread after thread, with flame wars over Truther theories. So he banned the topic.
Sorry Mr. Mussolini if you don’t like it, but free speech properly comes with viewpoint-neutral limits on time, place and manner. And crapflooding is an unacceptable manner.
Viewpoint banning is non-existent (altho he did, at Salon, finally ban two *topics — regardless of viewpoint — that kept hijacking the threads…
Yes, Glenn would much rather have people talking incessantly about their dogs, gardens, extraneous activities (**cough** fracking puppet show***cough***) etc than to have a “substantive” debate concerning 911. Which is not surprising as his reactionary “blowback” theory of terror attacks against America dovetails nicely with Bush White House narrative that bin Laden’s al Qaeda cell was singularly responsible. “Nothing to see here folks, move along.”
And you, Marcolf, are entirely free to post that silliness.
Indeed, that febrile, extended diatribe you repeatedly (& verbatim) posted against me at CiF — and which the mods deleted for being “abusive”– will stand here. So you go retrieve it, dear; it’s recyclable again! And I don’t mind it in the least.
Guilty as charged:
My thoughts and my discourse as madmen’s are,
At random from the truth vainly expressed;
For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright,
Who art as black as hell, as dark as night.
Sonnet CXLVIII – William Shakespeare
You too, eh?
You too, eh?
P.S. erratum – CXLVII
“P.S. erratum – CXLVII”
Thanks for the correction.
That time of year thou mayst in me behold,
When yellow leaves, or none, or few, do hang…
Wilhelmina, et .al; the shadow of this theory and others has crept persistently around the edges here – what I cannot understand is why not bring these “substantive” things you speak of out into the light?
Having spent time examining varying views on this subject and others, I, for one, would like to hear more substantiation and less beating around the bushes.
So please, bring arguments with facts attached to them, to be placed under scrutiny regarding this and any other point of view you may have.
That differing views are allowed here is, so far, the case – should one stand up for oneself and the arguments they present.
For those that choose to let innuendo and insinuation make their arguments for them in their stead – as some have most pointedly done here regularly – that remains another matter altogether.
Regards,
Silly Putty
See below for definition of one with corncob up one’s bung hole:
“See below for definition of one with corncob up one’s bung hole:”
It is amazing how, with a single push of a button, I can get you to reveal your true colors.
“Reveal?” If you were in doubt that I’ve always noticed that your posts are the definition of someone walking around with a corncob up their ass, aka, “your true colors,” you haven’t been paying attention.
“‘Reveal?’ If you were in doubt that I’ve always noticed that your posts are the definition of someone walking around with a corncob up their ass, aka, ‘your true colors,’ you haven’t been paying attention.”
Hmmm, “A corncob up their ass”… Now, why would you believe that this image would be insulting? What type of person resorts to this type of imagery when placed under pressure? Hmmm, Why does the term “latent homophobe” keep coming to mind?
I wouldn’t know. I have no idea. But it’s very clear that you are so desperate to make a complete fool of yourself that you will post anything at all, no matter how pathetically foolish, to bring that across.
In all seriousness: as much as I’ve seen already from you, that last comment from you tanked you down into the sewer even further than I thought was possible.
Your lazy comments don’t place me under pressure. You’re laughably delusional.
Your lazy comments don’t place me under pressure.
ROFL!!!! So you resort to using Anal/Phallic imagery as an insult merely as a matter of habit? Tsk, tsl, tsk! It is off to the re-education camp with you.
No, you ignorant fool. Corncob up butt reference doesn’t mean what your demented brain took you to. Which is why it is you, not me, who came back with your “homo” reference.
Cornbob — Dictionary of American Idioms
“No, you ignorant fool. Corncob up butt reference doesn’t mean what your demented brain took you to. Which is why it is you, not me, who came back with your “homo” reference.”
Oh Kitt… Do you actually think that people are so stupid that do not understand that a word or term can have multiple meanings? One only needs to explore the etymology of the word “gay” to understand how traditional words, phrases, terms or idioms transform in context to sub-culture derivative usage Let’s examine word cornhole for instance:
“Cornhole:
Connotations and variants
The term is apparently derived “from the practice in the days of the outhouse of using dried corn cobs for toilet paper.”[4][5]
By the middle of the 20th century, the term was used among American criminals.[6] According to a 1944 report on same-sex prison rape, the term had taken on a more specific meaning of taking the penetrative role in anal sex.[7] It was also popularized in part through use in gay culture.[8][9]
In a similar context, a corn husk is a “condom, especially one manufactured for anal intercourse.”[10]
According to linguist Jonathan Lighter, to cornhole and variant non-derived synonyms have developed as compound verbs: to corncob [1975] and to corndog [1985].[11] Linguists have noted the verb form as an example of possible compound verbs in English. There is debate whether such words are genuine compounds or pseudo-compounds.[12]” (Wikipedia; cornhole)
Gee, imagine that! Corncob is a synonym for the slang term cornhole which is a term for same-sex prison rape. The anal sex connotation of corncob comes as no surprise to purveyors of both straight and gay porn as well. One only needs to Google “corn cob gay sex” to validate this fact for themselves. In japan, corncobbing is a well known fetish.
Even the usage to which you conveniently linked first began when indigent farmhands used corn cobs to wipe their ass.
What was that that you were saying about ignorance?
What I think is that people aren’t so stupid that they’d believe that the shit you’re pushing in attempting to attach your demented low-brow meaning has fuck all to do with what I’ve clearly stated was my meaning. You’re boring as hell on top of being a sewer dweller.
What I think is that people aren’t so stupid that they’d believe that the shit you’re pushing in attempting to attach your demented low-brow meaning has fuck all to do with what I’ve clearly stated was my meaning. You’re boring as hell on top of being a sewer dweller.
Yes, and we all know that your chronic pattern of employing abusive language against anyone to which you do not agree could not possibly provide a standard by which your current use of the term “corncob” was intended. Pffft!
An amazing feat, Wilhelmina.
That you so deftly commingle a contrived crap-flooding with the portal from which your ideas now emanate from is, in the end, shit-disturbing, at the very least.
“I won’t fight you, it looks puerile to me, but I can ignore and forget you till you wonder if you still exist.”
Michael Bassey Johnson
Regards, Sillyputty
@SillyPutty
When I was young, I use to have a younger cousin who received a guitar from his parents as a gift on his 10th birthday. Over the next several years, one couldn’t visit a member of his family without being perused by him from room to room while he desperately played his out-of-tune guitar. More disturbing was the fact that his stammering vocals lacked consistent key and pitch; it was mind numbing medley. The most disturbing aspect of that experience was that he was completely oblivious to the fact that his impositions were boorish to the extreme. Even when confronted directly with the truth, he was unable to curb his compulsive need for attention. To the contrary, he would make an ever greater nuisance of himself. I understand now that he was so desperate for attention that he was willing to risk contempt of anyone within ear shot rather than be ignored. I have never seen anything quite like it until now. Don’t you understand that, by virtue of your predilection for willful ignorance, all of your opinions have been rendered insignificant? To me, you are little more than that pathetic little boy strumming his guitar out of an insatiable need for attention. I suspect that others are going to come to the same conclusion if they haven’t already.
Wilhelmina,
Thank you for sharing this disquieting glimpse into your family’s neglectful past and the dysfunctional environment in which you were raised.
This unasked for peek into your troubled upbringing thoroughly explains how you, as an adult, have come to treat others with the same disregard as your cousin and yourself had been subjected to while growing up.
The good news is that with counseling, and by surrounding yourself with supportive friends, this obvious character defect that was shaped during your formative years can, with much hard work and support, be overcome.
And although I cannot speak for everyone here, I do know that I will do all that I can to help you in surmounting these interpersonal and empathetic deficiencies that disturb you to this day.
Best regards,
Sillyputty
Okay Mona. If that makes you feel better.
The problem of knowing if you’ve been modified or not could be rectified with a simple email from the intercept to the person needing/expecting moderation. That or a public statement by the intercept about its policy. It doesn’t help if people who say they have had long discussions with Glenn on the subject become the mouth piece for the intercept on its policy… That being said thanks for letting us know …your explanation of moderation here is good enough for me, I expect Oboe would prefer to see it in writing form his arch enemy.
PS @ Oboe: Post one of the ones that didn’t get through and see if moderation is still the case. I think we have all had posts that get lost… Copy and paste them before posting if they are important and re try later.
”
Yes.
1) I very much doubt Glenn Greenwald wants to end capitalism.
2) If you think the financier of this project is manipulating his journalists to write in ways they would not do otherwise, show by way of ‘before and after’ hiring articles.
4) If you honestly think the journalists here will only report within certain parameters and have been hired precisely because they won’t leave said parameters, why be alarmed when they don’t?
5) If you think The Intercept is a deception of some kind – instead of insinuating, spell it out.
The Intercept deleted number 3! Just kidding. That’s me, or rather the glass of cider I’m drinking.
Agreed except for #1. Glenn is clearly working for Russia. oh wait…
But seriously, this
is a great question imo.
I have my theories, but I’m not among the alarmed. I’d love to hear a response from Valentine, Oboe and others concerned about the product here.
Cease the clandestine exploiting of people out of covert disent/ subvertive/ conspicous actions against any country or person, that such illegalities of breaking the rule of law of their own constitution and international law is rejected by international public opinion and the majority of all people of the world.- Alejandro Grace Ararat
Greenwald and Snowden at Amnesty the other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha0OM6JLKFQ
I decided to wait until Amnesty posts a cleaner version.
I notice that while the live element of such events is important and obviously it is by video link, I always wonder why pristine audio with proper equipment is not captured at each end and synched to the video in post for later broadcast. I hate hearing that far away sound of the dialogue in the audio. Simple steps could be taken to increase the quality of these recorded events if only so they serve as documents for future generations. Grainy, low res, low frame rate and terrible sound!
This is just somebody’s amateur vid that I found on YouTube. Mona is indubitably right that a professional (and complete) clip will soon be available. I just put this up for those as impatient as I am.
Don’t get me wrong Cindy, I have no prob that you posted the link. I followed links to that vid on Twitter last nite and pretty much decided to wait, is all.
Good and thanks also for the link. As a sound engineer it horrifies me how badly recorded some very important speakers have been. Take Chomsky for example… Not every mortal can swallow his books so to hear his voice loud and clear is important if reading him is out of the question. Nearly every one of his speeches has horrendous audio.
I look forward to the Amnesty international edition although unless it’s recorded as clearly as say the 10 o’clock news.. sound wise I’ll still be disappointed.
thanks!
You’re welcome.
Oboe wrote:
Who will determine who is the “working class and oppressed,” and by what mechanisms will these chosen “dictate” what is news and who gets to write about it?
But Mona, if it’s Oboe’s dictator it’s fine! We just have to take his/her word for that, of course. And assume that the dictates are free and that those who hand them down are unpaid.
(Same line leapt out at me, too.)
Yes, Minion, and Oboe seems partial to Cuba, in which case I wonder how he responds to this:
Compared to what? The bourgeois press giving us imperialist propaganda day after day?
What I first and foremost respect is the Cuban revolution and the protection of it. I’m not going to come out in favor of some lofty abstract ideal like “free press” above freedom from exploitation, oppression, hunger, and insecurity. Capitalists don’t seem to understand that a country like Cuba (which this very article points out) is under constant attack by the imperialists to undermine its revolutionary project. What I support is the Cubans doing whatever is necessary to protect that and protect their people.
Ultimately, I trust the Cuban people to decide what constraints are necessary on their “freedom” of the press.
I see.
Freedom of the press is just some “lofty abstract ideal” you find unimportant, if you are not downright opposed. And how about freedom of speech? Or of assembly? (Don’t bother answering; you have exposed yourself well enough.)
Seriously, dude, what are you doing hanging out with a bunch of civil libertarians (em>here?! Greenwald — a devout civil libertarian– holds an agenda entirely discordant with your own goals and values.
You, like all authoritarians, are right to see him as your enemy.
I think most here understand your point about Cuba being under constant imperialist attacks. It’s been true for decades. I also support Cuba’s self-determination. That doesn’t mean one has to believe Cuban’s political model is a good model, or even a good socialist model. South American countries are trying to build socialist systems that are fairly different to Cuba’s, with some success under a very hostile global climate, and some obvious challenges too. We’ll see how it turns out.
I don’t necessarily dispute that, but the Press Freedom Index is not very convincing evidence in itself. The reason is its methodology: They basically send a questionnaire to 18 partner organizations, its correspondents around the world, as well as journalists, etc. One could make a good guess as to which organizations those might be, and the biases of the correspondents will obviously vary from country to country.
RWB is not that bad as NGOs go, but these types of reports need to be taken with a grain of salt regardless.
How much salt must one consume before PFI and RWB tell us nothing serious about Cuba? Does some other entity(s) give Cuba high marks on such freedoms?
I think all you need to know about Cuba is that it doesn’t have a non-state press, except for what gets through from Miami. That has obvious implications.
All I’m saying is that the Press Freedom Index is not a good way to make that argument, especially in the case of a country like Cuba, which I’m sure doesn’t have local NGOs that RWB relies on, or Cuban RWB correspondents, whereas other countries do have that. So there’s no way it’s an fair, unbiased index.
My statement was too absolute, actually. I recall there are private anti-establishment publications in Cuba, but they are marginal. There’s Yoaní Sanchez’ magazine, Contodos, for one.
(Yes, folks, even Cuba has dissident journalists, who are also marginalized from the mainstream. The lesson is that the existence of dissident journalists is no guarantee that you’re living in a free country.)
A drop in the bucket you say. This eludes to possibly dropping another bombshell document along the lines of https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
??
EXCERPT: “For its part, GCHQ refused to answer any specific questions on the record, instead providing its standard boilerplate script which it provides no matter the topic of the reporting:
“all of GCHQ’s work is carried out in accordance with a strict legal and policy framework which ensures that our activities are authorised, necessary and proportionate, and that there is rigorous oversight.”
[Hitler’s activities were all “carried out in accordance with a strict legal and policy framework which assured that Hitler’s activities were authorized, necessary and proportionate and that there was rigorous oversight.]
@Doug Valentine
You need more than a rhetorical question here. And you need to use language more precise than “break the mold” and “part of the system”. Is it truly impossible – theoretically or practically – for a journalist to contribute to radical change while cashing the checks of a billionaire capitalist? Greenwald denies it. He says the billionaire’s support will only improve his ability to develop and propagate his opinions, without them being compromised in the slightest. If you believe that’s impossible, you need to make an argument.
That said, I wonder if Scahill, Poitras, Hussain, Froomkin and the others all consider this question to be as clear-cut as Greenwald. I wonder if this eerie delay/suspension of output by all but Greenwald might not be related to Omidyar’s involvement with USAID and Ukraine. (And what if Omidyar is involved with Venezuela, or was involved with Honduras? Still ok?)
I think Greenwald’s “opinions” don’t threaten bourgeois capitalism. So there’s really no contradiction with his working for this guy. Omidyar is well aware of this, otherwise he wouldn’t have hired him. That doesn’t make Greenwald principled, it makes him a tool of the imperialists.
There are no radical writers or leftists among the Omidyar 15 (14, however many it is). I can name 8-10 writers off the top of my head that contribute extensively and are prominent on anti-imperialism and anti-capitalism, and I may be wrong but I doubt any of them have been asked to work at this place. The Segura woman I don’t know enough about but she sounds like she could be promising on domestic issues. It’s a given that nobody here will be writing anything earth-shattering or at least nothing for which the ruling elites can’t exercise damage control. Since nobody on the staff here has or will be calling for systemic changes, I doubt Omidyar gives two shits what they write about. If they start calling for the destruction or dismantling of the capitalist system, you’ll see this website shut down in two shakes. But that’s not going to happen because everybody on the payroll is a capitalist, they benefit from the entrenched system, they don’t want it destroyed or even undermined. That’s not lost on Omidyar.
I was waiting for you to ask him this Mona.
@ oboe: Also who are these ten writers off the top of your head and how differently would they report on the stories released so far for example.”Also they are prominent on the anti-imperialism and anti-capitalism…?” Circuit? Front? Movement?
Oboe: Sorry, I miss read your post… prominent “on” anti imperialism and anti capitalism. Still sounds like you mean these are their specialist subjects read like this.
@Mona
Thank you!
I have a feeling if Oboe on 54th Street wasn’t either embarrassed or too lazy to flesh out a credible backstory, we all wouldn’t be asking the same question.
I am always suspicious of the outspoken who don’t go into their opinions with great detail:) When was the last time you had to coax an opinion out of someone on this board?
God knows I would push a baby carriage into traffic if it gave me chance to expound on my bullshit.
I am willing to be wrong, pleasantly surprised, and contrite in my apology.
I won’t dispute that, and, as far as I know, Greenwald has never identified himself as a “radical”. He would probably say that the true radicals are all in power in Washington and various states. And though he may not be opposed to a form of capitalism that operates under reasonable government oversight, he certainly intends to be a threat to a capitalism that operates without any legal or ethical constraints, and threatens to take over a government, if it hasn’t already. So, yes, maybe Omidyar expects him to go that far and no further.
When has capitalism ever operated with ethical restraint?
As far as legal restraint, it’s circumvented all the time. Who cares? Will it make you sleep better knowing there’s a “law” on the books saying the government can’t do this or can’t do that?
Well, he’s too late on the “threatening to take over a government” thing. His boss was in on it, though.
What you’re describing as his goals are reformism, something that is useless in helping the oppressed and will do nothing to stop imperialism. So as I said, he’s a tool of imperialism, he won’t be shaking down any institutions that threaten the goals of neoliberalism.
Look if some kind of anti capitalist movement can use this information for the greater good as it is released in to the public domain then let them. Why do you seem to crave a kind of Che Guevara to report on these documents?
News that is overly left wing in it’s delivery will fall on deaf ears. It would be nice not to ever have to read between the lines but where and from whom we get our news shouldn’t break your balls so bad.
Large numbers of people need to be informed of the facts relating to the snowdon documents and Glenn seems quite able to do this (albeit not single handedly)..
Today, and every day that I am in business.
That those that constitute the upper 1% or so do are not doing the same is something I have not been able to effectively address at this time, although I do try.
That it needs to be done is without question. The question then remains -How?
Regards,
Sillyputty
@ Doug Valentine
I wonder how green and charitable you are. No offense intended. I think this discussion about Omidyar’s money is particularly irrelevant considering the magnitude of the information that Glen is presenting. I strongly believe that people that hold a ethical view based on Omidyar’s money should take their opinions on this matter to another forum. The world is and becoming a cesspit of violence and corruption and anyone that sheds light on these matters ought to be congratulated. Please refrain from such unhelpful diversions and stick to making relevant points.
@ Barncat
Well said and furthermore if the information that Glen presents is not enough to shake up the sheep that make up the populace then I would say they deserve to live in this world the way it is. A world that has sunk below Orwell’s ideas as per “1984”.
If he had any principles, or honor, he wouldn’t take Omidyar’s money. But he takes the money of a man who could – but chooses not to – feed 100,000 children daily, or bail out Detroit. He has no sense of good and evil, of right and wrong, and thus all his pronouncements are suspect.
I am personally entirely open to that viewpoint, but you have to do more than just assert it!
Greenwald is concerned foremost with outcomes. He wants to effect real change in the real world. He considers strict adherence to principle without regard to outcomes to be a form of “self-indulgence”. (I know this from replies I have gotten from him when criticizing him for using arguments not based on principle, and other replies I have seen. But, if you wish, you can just assume it for the sake of the argument.)
So, to simplify the question, let’s assume that an utterly corrupt billionaire capitalist approaches Greenwald with an offer of unlimited financial support for his work, with complete independence. To make his decision, Greenwald is going to calculate how much net good he can do compared with all the other options he has. His most basic “principle” is to get good things done. So, you must either find some fault with that, or make the argument that it’s impossible to achieve a net good while being supported by an utterly corrupt billionaire.
I am personally a bit disturbed by the simplicity of Greenwald’s position on this matter. In a comment, I asked if the concept of “dirty money” was meaningful to him. But, if you’re going to be equally blithe, then there is no discussion, and we’ll just have to see what happens.
There’s that word again.. (Evil). But anyway what do you mean? Glenn’s pronouncements? what are you talking about? The ‘articles’ should be ignored because of the writer’s moral outlook? Do we need to be delivered reporting from a saint for it to be truthful.
Are you the journalist messiah we need so badly. ?
Most people reading and posting online, certainly in the Western world, do so from their own computer and they pay for Internet service. Many dine out and own nice vehicles, not to mention holding college funds for their kids.
Unless you have taken a vow of poverty and are accessing this site from a library, you, too, prioritize information access and a lifestyle that includes amenities over feeding the poor.
If you see value in information and will pay to access it, I do not see why it is immoral for a wealthy man to fund an investigative journalism organization.
@ Mr. Doug Valentine,
To be fair, if you are the author who has written 5 books, have you given a marked portion (25% or more–or any at all) of the money you received from those financial endeavors to feed the poor, to bail out your local community, fix the road potholes, overstock the local food bank, et cetera?
I am almost certain that Mr. Valentine, an excellent reporter and writer, is not a billionaire and your attempt to compare his disposable income to that of a billionaire is so out of proportion as to appear to be intended as insult.
It is almost as insulting as when Omidyar complained that the PayPal14 cost PayPal $50,000,000 in lost profits, and they needed to learn a lesson about wasting that much money. Again, all out of proportion. How do the poor and disaffected fight this system when money is valued more highly than human life? Yes, by kicking the problem in its fat wallet!
Mr. Valentine asks valid questions in regard to GG’s relation with Omidyar. US billionaires are not free to do whatever they wish with their money, and certainly if one were to fund activities that posed a threat to the Powers That Be, he would be punished. I feel fairly certain that Mr. Omidyar is somewhat aware of that, but not being a radical sort his choices are made in keeping with his moderate mindset.
That is all well and good. Still, we must wait to see if and how Glenn has been affected by this new association. None of us know yet if Glenn will be changed by money or not, unless you, Nemo, are prescient and can promise us he’s still got his fangs a year or two from now.
@ seer,
Please see the following link wherein I posted a nested comment earlier today. I am already having my doubts about Mr. Greenwald, although I am a strong supporter.
Prescient—no, not at all—I am just observing contrary evidence. Moreover, I will never accept Mr. Greenwald’s or others’ journalism at face value. To date, his facts are sound and his copiously cited reasoning is plausible. However, as I stated in another topic to which you replied, he is subject to the entire spectrum of the basest human personality flaws. Nonetheless, based upon past performance, I anticipate that he will most likely continue down the path of valuable, unadulterated journalism–unless he allows pernicious fame and petty conceit to overcome his journalistic acumen and to cloud his lawyerly critical thinking skills.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/04/04/cuban-twitter-scam-social-media-tool-disseminating-government-propaganda/#comment-20798
Glenn,
I knew without fail that you wouldn’t be able to resist commenting on this story. You are too predictable. Your article once again reeks of anti western bias. Do you have NSA documents that mention this program? The US Government has funded democracy programs for decades. Is a platform for Cubans to communicate openly really a bad thing? If this is a threat what does that say about the Cuban communist government? The Cuban government is so weak it can’t withstand some 20 year olds openly communicating with each other?
Where is your coverage of Omidyar funding Ukrainian activist? This Cuban one is similar but with far less of a political slant. It’s ironic that you “champion” the open internet etc. but criticize a program that offered just that in a repressive environment. This proves your style of reporting is in fact bolstering repressive governments. Where is your coverage of Russia’s propaganda and misinformation campaign against Ukraine? I really want to take you seriously but I can’t.
Please stop commenting. Just publish the documents that you want to share and don’t bother adding your biases to them.
How much are you getting paid for this venture? Does firstlook pay for global travel etc? I want to know not just your take home pay but all the other perks and travel locations of your staff.
Pierre Omidyar has pledged half his $10 billion fortune to bail out Detroit and feed starving children. Oh wait, sorry. He gave the CIA $500,000 to overthrow the elected Ukraine government, and $250,000 to Glenn not to talk about it.
Hard to believe Greenwald didn’t know jack about this creep’s business dealings considering all it takes is one Google search.
But when you “discover” that your boss is intervening in the political landscape of a sovereign nation, you don’t continue to defend him; you get the fuck off his payroll.
yep, it’s called having principles, and honor.
And:
“[Omidyar is] spending his money on helping imperialists overthrow sovereign countries, something you seem loathe to address….[Omidyar is] apparently…overthrowing sovereign states.”
@Oboe & Doug Valentine
It’s actually called facts you can act upon.
I appreciate both of you bringing up this point and others related to potential conflicts regarding where the money comes from and what it is spent on.
But ultimately it is you who must provide the documentation and links to sources to show that such things are actually happening – because if they are happening I, for one, would certainly like to know about it.
But, like too many others here, that you have a theory that is worrisome does not, ipso facto, make it true.
Like others here, I suggest you email or otherwise contact journalists that do have experience in that region.
One such journalist is Matt Taibbi, (which you may likely discard out-of-hand simply because Taibbi is soon to be employed at The Intercept) – but the fact remains that Taibbi did live and report from Russia for quite some time, he does know his way around financial and political shenanigans, and he does care about the fact that most humans on the planet do have less money, less power, and therefore a lower quality of life due to the greed and actions of those who have abused our political and economic systems.
I’m sure there are others that you feel are equally or more knowledgeable and/or impartial that you could contact – and if you do, please bring that information back here and share it with us.
Best regards, Sillyputty
“………He gave the CIA $500,000 to overthrow the elected Ukraine government, and $250,000 to Glenn not to talk about it…….”
I can’t think of anything more democratic than protesters organizing in peaceful ways to protest their government – like in Ukraine. I suspect that you probably supported the protesters in Egypt against the military dictatorship, so why not in Ukraine?. Omidyar is a believer in democracy, so it made sense to help fund the protests in opposition of the Russian puppet, Viktor Yanukovych, who rejected an economic package with the EU in favor of his mafia boss. God, I wonder why Ukrainians after a half a century behind the iron curtain might want to have closer ties to democratic Europe.
Omidyar is certainly free to spend HIS money the way he sees fit as long as he pays his taxes. Fairly simple.
OP – Its not up to the U.S. and its proxy organizations like USAID and NED to determine what the Cuban people need or don’t need or what they can “withstand.” That’s the decision for the Cuban leadership and the people of Cuba.
As it is, the Cuban people are one the most if not the most class conscious and politicized groups in the world. They have and will continue to withstand the crap thrown at them by the western imperialists and I for one stand in solidarity with them and the leadership of Cuba.
You don’t want to know what Greenwald thinks of them, though. He wrote an ugly ugly piece on Latin American pro-Chavez protesters and maligned the good name of Comandante Castro while he was at it. What would you expect of a pro imperialist though.
Oboe, about Cuba. Do you support this state of affairs?
How much money do you make? How often do you travel? Please share details about your travel expenses, taxes, etc.
When you’re done doing that, find a sponsor interested in Russia and see if he or she wants to underwrite a new organization dealing with that crisis. It’s an important topic and there are plenty of journalists who would join, so it could be a lucrative venture.
Should you do so, we’ll hope your readers aren’t as moronic and obnoxious as you.
Morning’s Minion, Well said!
I make approximately $50k in the US. I’m middle class as it gets. I don’t travel for work. I don’t have a corporate card or any other reimbursable accounts. I invest what I can in my 401k. I pay all my taxes on time.
I have no interest in starting an organization to report on Russia. You insult me because you don’t like what I said. Vice News has some quality interesting reporting on the Crimea. In my opinion Greenwald’s reporting is narrow and the value is in the docs only he or very few other people possess. It’s not the depth of his analysis or breadth of topics covered. I wish Greenwald and his team well creating this alternative news outlet. They will need it with competition like Vice.
You are “insulted” by being asked to do what you rudely demanded someone else do? Interesting. One would have thought you got the point, but clearly not.
BTW, my point about Russia (and entire post) was sincere. Russia is an important topic, one that demands expertise from those who cover it. Glenn would probably be the first to tell you that that is not his area of interest. It’s bizarre that you demand “deep” coverage and then want to force various journalists into covering a topic they don’t have that expertise in.
In short, if you are looking for stories that focus solely on Russia, this probably isn’t the right place.
The insult is not “being asked to do what you rudely demanded someone else to do”. The insult is in calling someone moronic and obnoxious because they have a different viewpoint than yours. I don’t want to force them into covering Russia. It’s just one of the most obvious and current examples to demonstrate his biases. This is my opinion. I’m no one so get over it.
I’m also not surprised to hear M. Taibbi is joining this organization. I never thought his articles in Rolling Stone are profound. He’ll fit in nicely here. I’m sure it wasn’t hard to beat Rolling Stone’s offer to Taibbi.
I’ll stick with Vice News.
Profundity is a virtue, no question – but accuracy, consistency, and moral outrage are what seems the trifecta that will be needed to affect change in our current paradigm.
But no matter, really, as G Man, Oboe, Doug Valentine, Wilhelmina, and others imply – because with individuals choosing sides (Pando vs. The Drudge Report; vs. Vice News; vs. Comedy Central; vs. The Intercept; versus The Disney Channel) what we end up with is not an argument for what is the best and most accurate information available, but what “news” presenter or information provider that most appeals to the most people at this time is what really counts in the end.
A popularity contest, of all things. As if what is true depends on the most votes or viewers.
This is what needs changed the most in our world today: that people disregard who says what, and instead focus on what is said – in other words consider the facts or the best evidence available to us right now.
Stop killing the messenger – prove or disprove the message instead.
That the evidence may change is a given – but to ignore the best you have is folly.
“The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what’s true.”
Carl Sagan
Regards,
Sillyputty
I completely agree. Enough with the name calling. Full speed ahead.
Regards,
Sillyputty
That’s a completely misguided way to look at it. Disliking a form of government is not an excuse to violate a country’s sovereignty and try to destabilize it. Certainly, there are people around the world who must think the American political system is deficient in various ways, with little political choice, etc. That doesn’t mean it’s OK for foreign governments to meddle in the internal affairs of the US and try to destabilize the US government. That’s nothing but imperialism.
To say the US was just trying to help is total nonsense, of course. I would also put forth that the political system is irrelevant to US meddling. If a country is not run by an elite that works in the interests of American corporations, it doesn’t matter how democratic they are. It will be considered fair game. In fact, it’s easier if they hold elections.
Is an open communications program bad for the Cubans, for anybody?
No. I would also like an open communications program that isn’t monitored, collected, and archived by the NSA. Don’t people have a right to be told how their communications–what most believe to be private–are being used? That their data is being analyzed for the purpose of engineering some kind of govt design?
From what I’ve read about the Cuban Twitter, this wasn’t being created to bring communication to Cubans. The purpose of this program was to target young people who might be open to political manipulation down the road. People who could be agitated against their government. Young people who could be riled up enough to even die in a revolt against their govt.
Yes, there is propaganda all over. Way too much of it. The danger is that our govts are degrading people’s ability to distinguish between what is real and what is not. Life becomes one big Sting Operation. You go to a protest on immigration just to find out that it was organized and led by Homeland Security.
I don’t like to be manipulated. I don’t like going to a meeting that’s been infiltrated by battalions of govt agents.
If the Cubans want to revolt against Castro, that’s up to them. We shouldn’t trick them into it. How do you think those people felt when they learned their twitter was a US spy tool out to manipulate them into doing something?
Predictable troll #1, Your lack of understanding, and pure smear-merchant behavior show you for what you are. Glenn, why didn’t you report on what I wanted, instead of what you want? Wahhh! Please grow up, and bring some evidence of your conspiracy theories instead of cheap shots right out of the “Smearing Made Easy for Morons” handbook.
This was in response to Gman and the two half wits (predictable troll #2 and predictable troll # 3) after him as well.
I try to avoid the word “troll,” but honestly, John Kelly, these two …I’m sure they think it’s a “deep” critique to continually troll the waters (of their making) that supposedly the backing for this venture is fishy, and that Glenn has to come “clean” about his backer, etc. etc. etc. but a shallower charge I’ve yet to hear or see. Maybe one day they’ll get around to dealing with something of substance.
Apparently, Glenn is supposed to don a hair shirt, shave his head, whip himself with branches dipped in dung, and go out, tin cup in hand, to prove his worthiness of the High Holy Troll Brigade.
Are we allowed to ask what these torch holders for Pure Politics do to sustain themselves? Or are we to take it as an article of faith that they breathe rarer air and sip dew whilst throwing potshots all day.
The amazing thing is that they think they raise compelling points. Glenn has a job doing something he believes in and his good at. He gets paid. They need to get over themselves, and then pause to consider to what degree their fixation with
Pierre Omidyar has to do with his Iranian background. Were his name Peter Smith would we be hearing the conspiracy theories? Perhaps not, but they leave themselves open to the charge that this is garden variety prejudice by constantly yammering on about a point that should literally be a non-starter. The last time I checked, anyone is still free to start a company of his or her choice. If these “geniuses” follow their logic through they should be troubled to learn that they’re really saying they should get to dictate what the news is, who sells it, and who gets to write about it, a very troubling idea.
Morning’s Minion, Thanks for that, I thoroughly enjoy your writing : )
@Mornings Minion, Apologist for Bourgeois Power:
Did you accuse Obama critics of being racist? I’m not criticizing Omidyar because he’s of Iranian descent. I don’t care what his ethnic background is. What concerns me is the amount of wealth he holds as an individual and the power that it gives him, apparently including contributing to overthrowing sovereign states.
I have a “prejudice” but it’s not related to Omidyar’s background. My prejudice is that billionnaires and other capitalists have power and access that fucks with the lives of entire populations and have and will utterly destroy those people’s lives with their bullshit “democracy” programs and interventionism.
You can ignore what he does but that will do nothing to change what he supports. HIs business decisions stand on their own as to what kind of system he supports and who will dictate the terms and conditions of that system.
“they’re really saying they should get to dictate what the news is, who sells it, and who gets to write about it, a very troubling idea.”
It’s the class in power that dictates what the news is and who gets to write about it. Right now that means we’re subjected to neoliberalist and capitalist propaganda 24/7. Omidyar has done nothing and will do nothing to change that, no matter how many Glenn Greenwalds he hires.
And yes I do believe the working class and oppressed should get to dictate what the news is and who gets to write about it. I’m sorry you find that reprehensible. By all means though keep apologizing for bourgeois democracy and entrenched power.
“The last time I checked, anyone is still free to start a company of his or her choice.”
The old pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, “start your own company” line. Wow. What makes you different from say any of the reactionary mouthpieces you Glennbots love to rail against? You’ve failed miserably at understanding how conditions under the very neoliberalism you are championing undermine the ability of “anyone” to feed and clothe themselves and protect their families from imperialist interventionism, let alone “start a company.”
No Oboe. I happen to agree with you about access. But no one seems to rise to your persnickety purity tests for what counts as a valid point. Glenn is pushing back against the status quo. That has to be funded somehow. Like most people, he has to support himself. You aren’t the arbiter of what counts as an authentic voice.
On the whole, I’d far rather Pierre Omidyar spent his money on journalism than on the fifth house, tenth car, and yacht that most who’ve accrued that kind of wealth do.
Speaking of access…you’re here for free. So Omidyar has, in fact, funded your ability to share your views. Journalism like this still offers one of the few changes for free speech available to us. Instead of sneering about it over and over again, you might actually use it to your advantage so that you don’t come across like a one-note loon bitching about other peoples’ views without sharing your own.
And if you find that too hard, perhaps you should trot off and start your own venture. Unpaid of course.
Agreed Morning’s Minion… the hilarious charge of “championing neo-liberalism” is particularly dense and has no basis in fact.
If Oboe really cares about the undue influence of billionaires and the corrosive nature of Neo-Liberal policies, and is not simply feigning opposition to them in order to attempt to diminish Greenwald’s reporting, there is plenty of room for agreement, but this is not likely as far as I can tell.
Attacking Omydar and Greenwald as if they are the same person is a fucking amazingly lazy argument.. one we will hear over and over again.
Anybody that seriously thinks Glenn Greenwald is for sale is an ignorant fool or worse. Either pay attention to the facts being reported, or choose the lazy route of attacking the messenger. Even worse yet, attack the person funding the infrastructure as if they were directly connected to the reporting. What laughable bullshit. Greenwald has total editorial discretion about what he reports. If you don’t believe this, go read Mr Valentine. He should be right up your alley… although his writing really sucks for a professional journalist, and he is a jealous fool in my estimation… for whatever that’s worth : )
” Journalism like this still offers one of the few changes for free speech available to us.”
Are you talking about this website? There isn’t free speech here. I’ve had comments deleted, and apparently others have as well. And I sure as shit wouldn’t be here if he charged for it.
It’s a matter of opinion whether “journalism like this” will change anything substantive, but why don’t we “put stars on it” and check back in two months when Greenwald says there will be change? It’s been almost a year and so far the only thing that’s changed is that things have become worse. So I guess at best you could say Greenwald doesn’t change anything and at worst he manages to turn things to shit.
“you might actually use it to your advantage”
What do you think I’m doing? Maybe it’s time for the Glennbots to march off and demand I be banned. Or something. You know, to “protect” all the free speech around here.
“On the whole, I’d far rather Pierre Omidyar spent his money on journalism than on the fifth house, tenth car, and yacht that most who’ve accrued that kind of wealth do. ”
He’s spending his money on helping imperialists overthrow sovereign countries, something you seem loathe to address. And that is among other questionable business ventures, like micro-loan programs and investing in companies that participate in human trafficking. Dog knows what else. I guess it’s just easier for you to play the ethnicity card and say I’m hatin’ on him because he’s Iranian.
But you’re great at offering a protection racket to power. The billionnaires thank you for pushing their dirty propaganda for them. Do they pay you, or do you do it “unpaid of course?”
@Oboe –
I appreciate you bringing up this point and others related to potential conflicts regarding where the money comes from and what it is spent on.
But ultimately it is you who must provide the documentation and links to sources to show that such things are actually happening – because if they are happening I, for one, would certainly like to know about it.
But, like too many others here, that you have a theory that is worrisome does not, ipso facto, make it true.
Like others here, I suggest you email or otherwise contact journalists that do have experience in that region.
One such journalist is Matt Taibbi, (which you may likely discard out-of-hand simply because Taibbi is soon to be employed at The Intercept) – but the fact remains that Taibbi did live and report from Russia for quite some time, he does know his way around financial and political shenanigans, and he does care about the fact that most humans on the planet do have less money, less power, and therefore a lower quality of life due to the greed and actions of those who have abused our political and economic systems.
I’m sure there are others that you feel are equally or more knowledgeable and/or impartial that you could contact – and if you do, please bring that information back here and share it with us.
Best regards, Sillyputty
“……..Predictable troll #1, Your lack of understanding, and pure smear-merchant behavior show you for what you are. Glenn, why didn’t you report on what I wanted, instead of what you want? Wahhh! Please grow up, and bring some evidence of your conspiracy theories instead of cheap shots right out of the “Smearing Made Easy for Morons” handbook……”
followed by
“……..This was in response to Gman and the two half wits (predictable troll #2 and predictable troll # 3) after him as well……”
Anyone that doesn’t kiss the ground that Greenwald walks on is a “troll” to you. It’s quite common on this site for posters to “follow the money” in American politics, so questioning Greenwald on the same grounds seems reasonable (not that I believe the charge in this case). Having the same charges thrown in your face can be quite uncomfortable.
In reality, you are a pathetic little Greenwald mousekateer.
“Anyone that doesn’t kiss the ground that Greenwald walks on is a “troll” to you.”
No, you have it wrong. I do not believe in hero worship nor do I follow along blindly. I am by nature skeptical, and have a fondness forother skeptics…. if they can deliver. Greenwald has earned my trust and will continue to have it unless things change drastically.
Anyone who just attacks the messenger instead of the message, or attacks the funder of the infrastructure that we enjoy here with the vaguest of bullshit (which even if true, has nothing to do with the reporting on the NSA), is either ignorant or a troll seeking to derail or sidetrack the reporting for their own purposes. It is not going to work, but keep trying.
“…….Anyone who just attacks the messenger instead of the message, or attacks the funder of the infrastructure that we enjoy here with the vaguest of bullshit (which even if true, has nothing to do with the reporting on the NSA), is either ignorant or a troll seeking to derail…..”
You to a “T”………..
Craig, John is right. No one has voiced “worshiping” Glenn; that’s a cheap charge that doesn’t stick, and repeating it ad infinitum doesn’t make it true. The point is that poster disrupts every thread no matter the topic by making melodramatic claims about Omidyar’s money, and Glenn selling out, and a Capitalist under very bush etc. etc.
That canned mantra is designed to derail the topic (which is why this is my last post to or about him). That is a classic definition of trolling, and the only one that fits (I’m totally against censorship, and think the charges that someone is a troll because one disagrees with a point is absurd).
This charge has been made a million times, at the cost of discussing what’s in the revelations. If people find Omidyar’s venture that offensive, they don’t have to post. It’s honestly that simple.
If Glenn is “corrupt” for taking Omidyar’s money, what does that make posters like Oboe or who are perfectly happy exploiting the space to bitch all day about Glenn and Pierre? For free.
Morning’s Minion
“……The point is that poster disrupts every thread no matter the topic by making melodramatic claims about Omidyar’s money, and Glenn selling out, and a Capitalist under very bush etc. etc…….”
My God. This is a fairly common point of view – anti capitalist garbage (especially at the Guardian). I’m not sure how many posters point out that America is just a plutocracy and run by the rich (certainly quite a few Greenwald posters). Now personally, I don’t buy Glenn is selling out any of his principals. He deserves to be paid well (presuming he is paid well). Why not?
Regardless, it’s really ridiculous to marginalize someone that you disagree with. If they were saying the typical crap on this site, namely, that America is the most evil country in the world, they would be welcome.
Thanks.
Craig,
Perhaps you have another powerful nation in mind that is the most evil in the world? I would love to hear about it. Is there one that has bombed more countries than the U.S.? No. Is there one that has used a nuclear weapon on civilian populations, not once, but twice? No. Is there another that has as high an incarceration rate? No. Is there one that has destabilized more democratically elected foreign governments with coups and other underhanded dealings? No. Is there a country that attacks any country it desires with drones and assassinates people at will all over the world, killing civilians without fear of reprisal at the rate the U.S. does? No. I could go on , but what is the point. You cannot educate the willfully ignorant.
John
“……No. Is there one that has used a nuclear weapon on civilian populations, not once, but twice?…….”
Thanks for the response. Lets try to remember some of the atrocities committed by the Japanese – for example:
The Nanking Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, was an episode of mass murder and mass rape committed by Japanese troops against Nanking (current official spelling: Nanjing) during the Second Sino-Japanese War. The massacre occurred during a six-week period starting December 13, 1937, the day that the Japanese captured Nanking, which was then the Chinese capital. (See Republic of China). During this period, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians and disarmed combatants were murdered by soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army.[1][2] Widespread rape and looting also occurred.[3][4]………The International Military Tribunal of the Far East estimated in 1948 over 200,000 Chinese killed in the incident.[5] China’s official estimate is more than 300,000 dead based on the evaluation of the Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal in 1947. The death toll has been actively contested among scholars since the 1980s, with typical estimates ranging from 40,000 to over 300,000.[6][7]…..”
The Chinese – as you must know – are still bitter over Japanese brutality. That was just one atrocity committed by the Japanese in 1937 fully seven years before their surrender. Do you sympathize with the Germans as well?
No one can deny that the nuking of civilians was simply an act of terror committed against the Japanese, but the choices at the time were limited. Indeed, the Japanese were hardly innocent – but you are not interested in anything that might color your anti American point of view.
Thus your love for Greenwald……..
Not marginalizing, just pointing out that at some point “There’s a Capitalist under every bush!!!!” is just as crazy, wearisome, and ineffectual as its communist counterpart. That song’s been done to death here.
Dear Craig,
Nice side-step. You do realize that you can’t walk a straight line if you’re wearing crooked shoes, right?
I am aware that other countries have committed atrocities, thanks very much. I was responding to this comment by you:
” If they were saying the typical crap on this site, namely, that America is the most evil country in the world, they would be welcome. ”
So I listed a very abbreviated list of horrible things that America has done, and asked for an example of another powerful nation that had done anywhere near the same amount of damage around the world.
You failed. Care to try again?
Concerned citizens have an obligation to hold their own country responsible for its actions and can have some influence, but almost no effect on the behavior of other countries. Get it?
You also wrote:
“No one can deny that the nuking of civilians was simply an act of terror committed against the Japanese, but the choices at the time were limited.”
But that’s just it though, people deny that all the time. I’m glad to hear you say the first part, because contrary to how you say you feel about it, I have heard many people say that it was justified… in fact, in the last part quoted above you appear to be doing the same thing.
As to choices… there are always choices, but when we look in our tool bag, the big hammer is always right on top so that’s what gets used by these war criminals nearly every time.
I’ll be anxiously waiting for your list of countries that are worse than the US when it comes to these war crimes, and of the destruction of the democratic process all over the planet.
Thanks, John
Hi John
“…….I am aware that other countries have committed atrocities, thanks very much. I was responding to this comment by you…..”
A lot of people are aware of atrocities committed by countries other than the US, but like most people on this site (including the author of this article), you really don’t care what others do or have done. You are US obsessed – an extreme political left winger. Thus dropping a couple of nuclear bombs is evil while killing 40,000 to 300,000 people “the old fashioned way” is ignored. Yes, you are aware of the atrocities, but it is not something that you just overlook. It’s purposeful and entirely bullshit to suggest you can only hold your own country responsible”. Where would Amnesty International be if they just held the west responsible? Besides, plenty of your political think-a-likes in Europe can’t use that excuse – and don’t even try.
“……..I’m glad to hear you say the first part, because contrary to how you say you feel about it, I have heard many people say that it was justified… in fact, in the last part quoted above you appear to be doing the same thing…….”
Well, in actuality, there was justification although morally the decision left much to be desired. The allied forces demanded a complete surrender by the Japanese which they refused – even after the first atomic bomb. The Japanese inflicted a huge amount of casualties on the US with another million possible in the event of an invasion of Japan.
I’m only too happy to discuss US policy with you in the future.
Thanks
I see… so, you are unable to come up with another country that even approaches the U.S. in the number of other countries bombed etc?
Your shoes must be very crooked.
Your suggestion that the left does not care about atrocities done by other countries is pure bullshit.
Since I was fairly young I have known and cared about what happens elsewhere. My suggestion that we hold ourselves accountable for our own foreign policy, before trying to change that of other countries was seized upon as a life saver for your failed argument. You are welcome.
You have no idea what I pay attention to in this world, just that I am extremely critical of our own runaway authoritarian state. I do not need to copy and paste wikipedia (or whatever) information in order to make a point about the atrocities committed by Japan several generations ago, but thanks.
I wrote: “but [almost] no effect on the behavior of other countries.” I have bracketed an important word that you seemed to have ignored. You are welcome.
Please try again, and bring facts this time, not just a predictable smear about what you think the left does or does not care about. Maybe you could put four or five countries together and see if you can come up with something approaching the evil we have been talking about?
Best of luck in your quest. I will be waiting.
BTW, the most oppressive thing going on in Cuba right now is that there’s a prison in the island where kidnapped people, not charged with any crime, much less convicted of anything, are held indefinitely with no recourse. Even people known to be innocent are held anyway. The conditions are so deplorable that the detainees sometimes organize hunger strikes, but are then force-fed in such a brutal manner that some detainees have been killed in the process.
Jose, Right you are. Torture, homicide, decades of imprisonment for people sold to the US war machine as terrorists … many of these human beings lives were destroyed ….. that is our legacy in Guantanamo.
Correction: That would be over a decade, not decades.
“………Where is your coverage of Russia’s propaganda and misinformation campaign against Ukraine? I really want to take you seriously but I can’t……”
Just read their mission statement:
“…….The editorial independence of our journalists will be guaranteed. They will be encouraged to pursue their passions, cultivate a unique voice, and publish stories without regard to whom they might anger or alienate. We believe the prime value of journalism is its power to impose transparency, and thus accountability, on the most powerful [American, British and Israeli] governmental and corporate bodies……” [my brackets]
There, you see? He is exposing the most evil countries on the planet. Asking any more of Mr. Greenwald is simply too taxing – and beyond the scope of the Intercept.
YEAH! Only anti eastern bias is free from bias!
“My hope and my belief is that as we do more of that reporting and as people see the scope of the abuse as opposed to just the scope of the surveillance they will start to care more,” he said.
“Mark my words. Put stars by it and in two months or so come back and tell me if I didn’t make good on my word.”
LOL! Sure, okay, we’ll “put stars by it.”
In two months the security state will be larger than it is now, and nobody — nobody — will “care more.”
Here’s an idea: assign one of the Omidyar 14 to give us a monthly update on the positive changes that have occurred because of your reporting. I’m not talking about more book and movie deals for you and the others, I’m talking about concrete changes that benefit us, the people.
So far all the ruling class has done is double down on security spending and throw up a bunch of words about “committees” and “bills” while the hawkish among them like Feinstein feign horror. For starters, you might want to stop getting their permission about what to print and what not to print.
But yeah we’ll “put stars by it.”
Firstly, you are a contemptible contrarian who habitually opposes everything Mr. Greenwald and TI represent—simply for the sake of cut-rate opposition. However, as someone who understands that contrary evidence/opinion is crucial to grasping every argument/position, I compel myself to read ‘some’ of your comments and those of others herein that are also pure contrarians.
Regardless, this is an instance where I somewhat agree with your comment, albeit from a different perspective. When I read elsewhere what Mr. Greenwald stated regarding his ‘stars’ comment, my respect for him diminished a certain extent. Although I have followed and supported him (with modest financial contributions), he is succumbing to his fame and status at the expense of his unadulterated journalism. Similarly, Mr. Snowden should consider avoiding the glaring limelight since his message is lost when he pursues ‘rock star’ status. As the adage goes, he has the ‘face’ (mannerisms) for radio. His quiet, rather professional demeanor displayed within his first video suited him perfectly and garnered my respect and admiration. However, subsequent appearances illustrate that he is attempting to foster a persona that does not comport with his initial statements of not desiring to become ‘the story’.
I most certainly want to continue to hear from Mr. Snowden and Mr. Greenwald; nevertheless, both individuals must seek to avoid becoming caricatures of themselves, thereby destroying and/or tainting the critically important messages contained within the ‘Snowden Documents’.
for example?
I like Mr. Snowden, he deserves all the good than humanity can bestow upon him, and the world owes him a huge debt of gratitude. However, he should avoid making grandiose statements like—paraphrased—‘l have already won’ and ‘mission accomplished’ (that last one is reminiscent of the pathetic G.W. Bush). He and Mr. Greenwald must never let their inflated egos drive their important works while countering the NSA, et cetera. I think a calm, confident demeanor in the face of celebrity or conflict far outweighs boastfulness and misplaced pride.
Good luck and thank you for your comment.
(Good thing I used Control + F to search for replies to my comments—otherwise, I would have missed your reply)
Observation:
I posted a comment discussing observations I made which suggest the possibility of a planned false flag operation to shoot down a nuclear-armed missle launched by North Korea as a test. Yes, it is far fetched in your mind But think back to September 10th, 2001; when people flying planes into political targets was equally far fetched. The whole point is that the far-fetched have become possible.
Why? Because of the mindset of these people. All of the information you need to understand how these people think, so that you can understand that they are fully capable of making decision that end the lives of thousands, even millions of people’s lives.
Yet rather than go research that information so that you can better understand the world you live in, and the problems it creates for you and others; you come here and ALL of you spends your time arguing and bickering about the person behind the information.
Why do you think Edward Snowden didn’t want to sort through the documents, even though he knows he is the most qualified person to do so? Liekly because he is aware that you people concern yourselves more with the person than the information they present to you; even if his awareness was only subconscious.
These comments offer proof.
I have officially set aside my mission to educate humanity about its potential fate – I appear to be one of the few capable of, qualified to, and actively thinking about the consequences of everything we are doing as a species. My youtube show was a resounding success, as it was actually put on by my subconscious to wake me up from the brain damage I suffered 10 years ago. And now that I have most of my faculties back that I need to get myself safe, I am going offline and concentrating on establishing relationships with people whom I must depend upon for my survival for the remainder of my time here on earth.
It no longer matters to me what you people do to this planet. I have accepted that it is lost, and am concentrating my efforts on documentation of my findings and philosophy, and attempting to find others to pass the torch along to. In the meantime, if anyone out there wants the answers, my show woke me up by the same mechanism that any subconscious can be awakened. Find my show if you are truly curious. Ignore it and me if you are not. But know that I cannot be “gotten to.” You cannot use me to boost your ego anymore. I am no longer anyone’s victim, and yes, that means you wonderful folks at the FBI and NSA who have been with me all these years – assuming you still are. And, dear readers, I am not paranoid, I am an American, with an active mind, who thinks for himself, and who attempts to advocate for equality for all, for peace, and for…gasp…freedom – I am the greatest enemey of the aparatus which has taken over our nation. But I have already completed my work. I have already done all that can be done.
What are you doing to help I wonder? Trolling the comments section so you can make yourself feel better? Are you busy trying to be useful to your masters, making sure you destroy any chance you or anyone else has of becoming free?
Or are you opening your mind, reading information and then going out and verifying it for yourself; seeking deeper meaning. Are you recognizing yet that Glenn and the Intercept’s role is not to guide you, not to save you, and NOT to lead you; but to inform you? Have you gotten the message yet that Glenn and others like him do not tell you what to think because they are not your masters, but that American news does precisely that. “10 important things to know for Monday” “The Epic Film Noah is Gearing Up to be Epic” Blatant efforts to tell you how to think, and you buy right into it.
The NSA, FBI, USG, and all of the other acronyms out there, ALL OF THEM, want to enslave you, want to “take care of you” and are charging you for the service. The ONLY way you can free yourselves is to start to think for yourselves, and to shut those childish morons up who attempt to convince you otherwise.
Think.
Ask questions – especially WHY.
And stop expecting Glenn and Edward and anyone else to save you. These people cannot save you, no one can. Only you can save yourself, and that’s the message they are trying to give you. Understand it, or perish even as you take the planet with you.
Best of luck to you, friend. I watched a couple of your shows, and you certainly have some insight. Your comments on Asperger’s particularly were very interesting, I thought.
Mike, thank you for sharing your thoughts, and be safe in your travels.
Best regards,
Sillyputty
Oh trust me, many of us have no delusions that “Glenn and Edward” will be contributing in any way whatsoever to what is needed to “save us.”
Thank goodness MSNBC has its priorities straight. Here, an interview about NSA data gathering is interrupted for some breaking news that REALLY MATTERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH68bSJXGE8
Apparently the group”anonymous” has met the high standards that gchq and the NSA have set for dissemination of their propaganda. This raises the question as to whether flight 370 was an opportunity or an operation.
There’s a Reuters story published yesterday about Snowden’s an Glenn’s appearance at an Amnesty event. The last 2 paragraphs are key. Glenn hints that in the next 2 months, The Intercept will be exposing how these programs have been abused, rather than just describing what they consist of. It might get interesting.
Glenn hints that in the next 2 months, The Intercept will be exposing how these programs have been abused, rather than just describing what they consist of. It might get interesting.
Reminds me of this tweet:
This program described sounds like one of those intelligence operations to make us all so much safer which has now been rendered useless by Snowden, according to James Woolsey in the debate on whether Snowden could have achieved anything useful by going through proper channels held between Andrew C. McCarthy, Ben Wizner, Ambassador R. James Woolsey, and Daniel Ellsberg.
I admire fine propaganda, so I did a bit of investigation into this ZunZunio story.
Some people in Cuba seem to have become suspicious when they started receiving texts offering them a 15% discount on snow blowers.
For others, it was the ‘Ask Obama’ app. Many tried this, but always received an identical response:’I sympathize with your problems and I hope you can one day live out your dreams in the United States’.
A few were suspicious of the banner ads, declaring everyone in Cuba would receive a free Cadillac from the US government if the Castros were overthrown.
One person said it was the text message she received from her best friend Luiz, asking her to join the protests in Revolution Square. But Luiz had died two months previously.
So all in all, I would say this was a good effort, but the execution was sloppy. C’mon America, you can do better than this. Make me proud.
“Snow blowers in Cuba” should be the name of a documentary on this debacle.
“Snow blowers in Cuba” should be the name of a documentary on this debacle.
Or the name of a post-NSA punk rock band.
Interesting article in a French web site about United States: ‘the new wave of journalism sites»
http://blogs.rue89.nouvelobs.com/node/227625/2014/04/05/usa-la-nouvelle-vague-des-sites-de-journalisme-232609
Here is an automatic translation :
He first took Nate Silver, who announced his departure last summer in the New York Times, taking with him his famous blog FiveThirtyEight and Ezra Klein, who left the Washington Post in January after six successful years at the helm the most read blog daily, WonkBlog. In February it was the turn of Matt Taibbi, the Rolling Stone journalist star, go create your own info site. The latest is Bill Keller, the former editor of the Times, a party to the judicial journalism for The Marshall Project.
In the space of six months, four ‘signatures’ – five if you count Glenn Greenwald who left the Guardian last October – the most talented of their generation left prestigious editors to go pursue pure player in projects taking with them dozens of young journalists equally promising.
Besides that Nate Silver and Glenn Grennwald, all projects are still under construction
Today’s newspapers and magazines, even with sophisticated digital resources still work with the requirements of paper says Ezra Klein in trying to define the project’s purpose, Vox.
However, physical limitations no longer necessary to be when it comes to a fully digital formula that uses the unique multimedia support.
As David Carr, the media specialist for the New York Times:
‘[Ezra Klein did not flee] the Washington Post, he [went] to build something else. VoxMedia is a digital company, a technology company that produces media and not a media company that uses technology. All Vox, how it covers topics that journalists hiring and management systems which content they produce news, is optimized for the current age. ‘
Over the past decade, there has been an explosion of news sites like Huffington Post, Buzzfeed or Business Insider that act as aggregators of articles found on the net and constantly renew their content – sometimes to the detriment of the quality editorial.
The new ‘start-ups’ rely instead on original editorial content and quality, leading journalists and sophisticated technologies.
‘There is a better way of doing things and we want to put technology at the service of creativity, journalism and storytelling,’ said Jim Bankoff, director VoxMedia, the parent company of Vox, which already has to other sites of specialized information.
Emily Bell in the Guardian speaks of ‘an extraordinary opportunity for journalists to rethink their profession’ including through reduced essays and smoother operation.
The craze for this ‘new wave of journalism sites’ is based on the promise of an original visual experience while taking up an editorial concept that has already proven:
Nate Silver and his famous website FiveThirtyEight aims to explain all aspects of the news with statistics;
The site Glenn Greenwald, The Intercept, based on the analysis of thousands of documents that were provided to him by the whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013;
The Marshall Project will be dedicated to him in the criminal justice system in the United States;
Matt Taibbi, the sworn enemy of Goldman Sachs, will focus on the political and financial corruption at First Look Media.
Three companies from the crowd:
First Look Media, the company founded in 2013 by Pierre Omidyar, the founder of ebay converted in philanthropy, which plans to invest $ 250 million – the redemption price of the Washington Post by Jeff Bezos in 2013.
VoxMedia, just buy the Ezra Klein project for $ 10 million, which already hosts six other
‘brands’ (The Verge, SBNation, Polygon, Eater, Curbed, Racked) was ‘one of the editors Online the most dynamic ‘in 2013 and received financial support from Accel Partners, a Venture Capital company, and Comcast, a subsidiary of leading U.S. cable.
Vice Media, with its network of digital channels, a music label, his own advertising agency, publishing house, its recent partnership with HBO, its 3.5 million subscribers on YouTube and its many advertising contracts (Gap , Nike, Levi’s and Samsung), and a ‘media center’ valued at $ 1.4 billion – the 21 Century Fox Rupert Murdoch there has recently invested $ 70 million by taking 5% of the capital.
They have in common to have been thought of as advertising platforms (advertisers can reach readers of each title).
David Carr compared the frenzy to these new start-ups of the info with the revolution of the cable in the 80s that led to the creation of hundreds of channels. Some of them (ESPN, Disney Channel, USA Network), he says, ‘became huge companies.’
Things are changing in USA, slowly but strongly, like the new FARM BILL the five-year statute defining agricultural and food policy of the federal government finally gives small and medium producers the same rights as giant grain farmers. Better farmers wishing to convert to organic will be securely supported.
So far all I see is a bunch of plutocracy-protecting mouthpieces getting even more wealthy because of who they are collaborating with.
Ezra Klein? Nate Silver? Glenn Greenwald? Bill Keller FFS? Who is zooming who here? These people protect the ruling elites, they don’t challenge anything.
And the french comments doubt about Ed Snowden the philanthropist.
Tout change, rien ne change.
Speaking of USAID they are not the only UN derivative agency that has misrepresented their own mission statement.
Consider NATO: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/17990-obama-budget-supersizes-u-s-funding-for-un-global-military
What I find astonishing is the number of people who go to work being traitors to their fellow citizens every day. We need to have some trials if we ever hope to end this madness. I hope all of their dirty tricks are exposed and people start to open their eyes and get pissed off. Imagine, what if the elite called a war and we all just refused to play their little game? I am a bartender and I have made informing people and guiding them to trusted journalists part of my job. Spread the word folks, nobody like being had.
“What I find astonishing is the number of people who go to work being traitors to their fellow citizens every day.”
Yes, I was thinking this very thing recently. Why do people continue to work merely for the privilege of having a roof over their heads and enough food for their children. What is a few cold, sick, and starving children compared to the realization of an ideological ideal that recognizes the utter insignificance of human suffering.
As I recall, Glen pointed out in his recent book that a major failure of the US was Ford pardoning Nixon and Co. Now that we have a kind of Watergate on crack, exponentially so, it’s easy to see why that Ford pardon was in itself traitorist. the pardon gave a free pass to those whom used it to reconstitute themselves in later years. Where we had a crime of burglary for medical records, we may now have tens of thousands of people with access to those records for the specific purposes of the same. And, the privatization of it may mean it’s all for sale. That severely damages the public’s perspecive of the level of integrity of both government and specifically law enforcement.
Here, here. My neighbor is a government contractor working for Northrup Grummman experimenting on weapons using radio frequencies– which the Patriot Act allows on citizens dubbed ‘enemies of the state.’ That means as a supporter of Wikileaks they can experiment on me without my knowledge. Even though I am a lawabiding devoted parent. My neighbor’s wife calls him a good man, by which she must mean ’employed man.’
My neighbor’s husband works for Northrup Grumman performing experiments on people using radio wave weapons. She calls him a ‘good man.’ By that does she mean employed? How can they live with themselves?
Glenn, in line 3 of the paragraph above the second graphic/slide: “GHCQ’s word, not mine” should read “GCHQ’s word, not mine.”
Great article, as always.
Interesting…..
The H2 channel ran a 1 hour program on Satellite TV last night on the Mass Surveillance Grid. It was actually good. At the top of the hour, both Mr. Greenwald and Edward Snowden were featured as the impetus of public scrutiny into these matters.
Aired on “America’s Book of Secrets.” Not presently available for viewing on the website.
As an undercover CIA agent, Peter Matthiessen founded the Paris Review for the purpose of spying on Americans in France in the 1950’s. NY Times obituary, 4/5/14.
Ah, the old Buddhist veil falls:
From the article:
“A youthful folly,” eh? Some of us sow much less poisonous crops, ones that don’t involve betraying our friends in order to harm strangers abroad. And he dares to style himself the natural man abroad? The lover of nature? The harmless old duffer with pipe and pen in hand? If you turn with this ease as a young man, what else are you capable of doing?
—————
My husband, who was also floored to learn this, just said, “How much of this is about the Ivy League fast-track to the inner sanctum of the CIA?” He also noted that it raises interesting questions about that whole ex-pat crowd. It would be interesting to find out if Matthiessen were yet another Skull & Bones devotee. Interesting how that Yale connection keeps coming up.
He did a lot of good things for Indian Country, notwithstanding errors in fact in his book “In the Spirit of Crazy Horse.” Also, the CIA of that era is surely not much like the one we see today, notwithstanding the history of many horrible, atrocious and terrible things they have done. But he seemed to me to genuinely regret his involvement; who truly knows? But, as one familiar with Operation Mockingbird, how it’s patently obvious now constructively been restored – and given the history of others, including Edward R. Murrow as Director of the USIA (United States Information Agency) – or even the body of paid mercenary gits in the comments of any journalistic endeavor- witness the comments in the NY Times where Jonathon Pollard is made out to be both Hero and excessively punished, while not mentioning the Rosenbergs were executed – I think what I’m trying to say is as we have to believe that people can evolve, and it may be unfair to simply characterize Peter Matthiesen as a permanent CIA propagandist. I wonder, in fact, if his solace in his religous path was a way of reconciling, accepting his past with his activities at the Paris Review.
Gawd. All of you, please read and understand Matthiessen, then get back to us.
If you have the guts, and the literary chops, you might even start with his just-about-to-be-published last novel.
In what specific way does the quality of his literature change the fact that he worked with the CIA? One can admire someone’s literary talents and still despise the politics. The New Yorker just reviewed a new biography about Paul de Man highlighting his Nazi allegiances, bigamy, total neglect of his son (sending him to live with a stranger) etc. etc.
All aspects of his life are interesting, and one can and should be allowed to comment on the life as something separate from the art.
To comment on Matthiessen’s “youthful indiscretion” (it truly was) as if it were significant is to demonstrate ignorance (or incomprehension) of his work and that of the CIA.
You didn’t answer my question.
page 13 of Full-Spectrum Cyber Effects: Funny to use a country called Kawastan also spelt Kawesatn on the same slide.. Imaginary countries?
America has always been at war with Kawastan.
Very funny. That has made my day.. I will tell Aunt Sally immediately.
this was the only picture of me and sally amongst some other amusing rubbish I could find (bottom left). Funny to find out what aunt sally meant so wanted to clarify..
http://www.journeysofjackman.co.uk/#/the-lizard-and-aunt-sally/4578721545
Worzel
Each day brings new surprises.
Which are really old surprises.
I was thinking about this last night…if we read through all of the headlines of the past weeks we would see names evocative of the height of the Cold War. I randomly strolled through headlines and this is what came up first:
For Venzezuela : “US against Venezuela: Cold War Goes Hot” –www.voltairenet?
For Russia: “Icy US-Russia relations revive Cold War fears”–Verve
And a new article by Glenn in which we find out that the US is disseminating propaganda in our old favorite Cold War playground.
All speak to the same kind of frenzied paranoia that fuels and sparks the very thing agencies like the NSA purport to want to end.
I’ve been saying for twenty years that the Cold War never went cold; it’s just been simmering ready to flare up again. What most worried me from the onset about the NSA revelations is that it confirmed that the sick mentality that brought us to the brink at the height of that insanity just burrowed deeper and festered underground.
Because what animates every facet of this project and institution is a bone-deep distrust and paranoia about virtually everyone on the planet. What could possible go wrong when that is your raison d’être?
The Guardian had excerpts from a new book about just how close we came to nuclear annihilation in the 60’s and how sheer dumb luck saved us again and again. The closest call by far happened in 1961:
Our secrets suck. They reveal a criminal mindset wed to unchecked power. Seeing Cuba in the title of this article made me think: Here we go again. And where we were is nowhere any sane person with an eye on the preservation of the species wants to be.
——————
Here’s the Guardian article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/usaf-atomic-bomb-north-carolina-1961
I recently saw an interview with an author who collected these formerly classified documents and he says this is one of hundreds of close calls. Why are a few power-mad people allowed to play Russian Roulette with the survival of the planet?
These two links expand on the differing views on the snowdon documents.. One from a recent interview with the people charged with choosing which documents to release and one from the NSA director (also at a fairly recent hearing).
http://www.c-span.org/video/?318416-1/edward-snowden-revelations-panel
http://www.c-span.org/video/?317689-1/hearing-global-threats-national-security
At 13:40 of the Clapper introduction he starts to list the threats and then stops to say the list could go on.. I’m wondering what else is on this list.
There are some interesting points brought up in both and I would suggest watching both if you have not done so already.
I would have asked Glenn about how order of release is decided. Also I was surprised to hear in this comment section that Glenn personally moderates his stories at the intercept. Is this true? I’m wondering if this is a good use of his time.
How many of those threats are self-inflicted do you suppose?
Quite a large number no need to suppose. Intelligence gathering would be one cause and foreign policy another.
The list goes on in fact for me also. When he talks of these threats it is as though the NSA is capable to deal with them almost alone. It is quite the opposite as giving more tax dollars to the NSA will not solve allot of these problems in the “dangerous” world he talks about.
Well? Why are my comments not being posted, Glen?
We know how many uniformed soldiers there are. How many police and prison and border guards. But how many spies are there? How many work on contract? How many are employed making and selling the spooks their technology and surveillance toys? How many don’t we know about?
The numbers are astonishing, I’m certain, most so among The Five Eyes (anglo) nations,
All very good questions that need answers.
Better question. How many spies and propagandists are there, if even aid agencies are in on it?
That is why the government has 25 public relations personnel for every one journalist. Psy-Ops for the public, and a special Psy-Ops unit for dignitaries, officials, diplomats… and of course the ever present watchers and killer robots in the skies and the sock puppets. But no one should worry because there is a sale on at the mall and we’ve just discovered a 5th Earth, which is pretty lucky because I’m sure both the Red and Blue pill are placebos, and I’m all out of cash from paying taxes and buying shit so that people can spy on me.
Yay, this century is off to a bloody good start! :(
Question: can you give specific examples of for instance “alias development” coming out of GCHQ or NSA? Do any of the Snowden documents specifically identify websites or aliases or real names who are in engaging in propaganda and/or disinformation on behalf of intelligence agencies? This is a vital question, because until you start naming names and unraveling these government and contractor sponsored disinfo networks, all that stories like this will accomplish is to further cultivate the climate of paranoia and suspicion on the Internet with every blogger throwing around baseless accusations of “agent!”, “shill!”, “paid troll!” at each other.
Is that your real name?
Is that not your real name? :)
But how does this all matter when they still haven’t found the plane!?
I found the document on the 2009 conference fascinating.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1102569-2009-sigdev-conference.html#document/p1
Who would think there was and must surely still be, this other world of shadow living in the dark of secrecy, operating with the power of the rich and famous, intelligence world?
Besides Peter Gabriel who sees that face of total disgrace.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/petergabriel/secretworld.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN1zO-ejJvE
Can I reply to my own reply?
I can not post otherwise.
No moderation just total blockage for some.
Mona has no idea.
A way past the blockage.
I have had 57 posts not posted here in the land of free speech.
Some were duplicates just to see if some glitch caused there non post.
Most were of varying content, all on topic with substantial substance linked.
No shows.
I have sent three emails over the last three weeks but the intercept will not answer let alone explain.
Yes censorship is here boys and girls.
This is my 10th account, I get one or two posts per account and then and by giving an email account your IP address is recorded and you are blocked by it (the IP) not by content.
Mona and her no, know nothing approach she speaks from, shows she is a shill propagandist and she should let others know of her contractual arrangement with this site..
.
establish that you are being moderated by government actors, and then you may begin whining about “censorship” and “free speech”. privately-owned platforms are under no obligation of any sort (and never have been) to host or protect your expression. and if The Intercept really has it in for you as you seem to believe, why would They let the tedious clutter of complaints through? that’s some insidious psychological warfare right there…
$200 million for this? Not quite sure but could we not be better off using these $$$$$ for, Oh let’s see us?
Terry, please define “us.”
Let’s start with the poor, the homeless, the unemployed, eh?
Let’s start with letting Terry answer, eh’?
Your frustration is shared, but misplaced.
With that said, the poor, the homeless, the unemployed, et .al are another subject altogether – one that, although still wrongfully and woefully unaddressed by most government’s at large, will remain so simply because a mere $200 million dollars won’t even begin to help those so disadvantaged to crawl out of the economic depression that the plutocracy has left them in.
One suggestion is to reverse the trend that began over 30 years ago in some countries, where those that have more income are actually being taxed less than the secretary that answers their phone.
Oh, and putting a few banksters in jail would help, too…
Silly Putty, it’s nonsense that we cannot connect the dots and arrive at the clear-cut awareness that the cry “We have no money!” is fundamentally related to where that money goes. We just dropped 6 trillion dollars (the newest estimate for the real costs of the Iraq War) on destroying a country considerably smaller than Texas.
That’s $ 6, 000,000,000,000 earmarked for waging an illegal war. It did come at the cost of funding education, healthcare, the arts, urban renewal, rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, funding shelters, soup kitchens, etc. etc. etc. In fact senators and representatives of all stripes have just pulled significant money from the budget slated to continue unemployment benefits, crying “We have no money!”
Of the many lies told by the MIC, the rankest is this utter rubbish that the money couldn’t have been spent elsewhere. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the reasons our coffers are empty now is because the US hasn’t even finished dumping a mountain of money on a war still smoldering. That’s why war is a double indemnity. We pay out twice. Once to kill people, but that killing abroad costs us dearly at home.
Terry can answer if Terry wants to. If you ask a question, anyone can answer it; how else could it be? You do not run this discussion.
Mike Sulzer, your implication that I am attempting to “run this discussion” is misplaced. Your assertion that “Terry can answer if Terry wants to” is redundant.
It could be that when someone asks, as I did in this case, a specific question of Terry to clarify his statement, that it would be better overall and less confusing to let Terry clarify their own thoughts for themselves.
Morning Minion,
Your discourse is a bit confusing, in that it basically echoes and expands upon what I said regarding where the money goes. I noted that due to a reversal in taxation policies that the money is, more so than ever before, in the hands of the few rather than the many.
That the money has been misspent on wars and enriching these same people instead of meeting basic human needs is blatantly obvious; although some, disbelievingly, cannot make that leap.
Regards,
Sillyputty
Sillyputty, I was addressing this statement by you: “With that said, the poor, the homeless, the unemployed, et .al are another subject altogether…”
It isn’t another subject; it’s the other half of the same one. Though I agree with the rest of your comment; I just wanted to highlight that part. Our financial crisis is inseparable from the real costs of the MIC. No one in political office has the guts to make that clear.
M’s M – which is why i personally prefer to use the full initials of the penultimate draft of Ike’s speech, MIC[ongressional]C…
Thanks Morning’s Minion,
When I used the phrase “With that said” I was speaking directly to the preceding sentence “Your frustration is shared, but misplaced.”
Regarding the rest and remainder, we seem to be on the same page, so to speak.
I hope that further clarifies my thoughts. If not, give me a shout.
Regards, SIllyputty
It’s obvious. “Us” is a vast range of people in need who do not benefit from that $200 million as it’s currently spent.
Argument by question in this fashion – this disingenuous and deceitful fashion – it fallacious, logically speaking. If you had a point, you should have made it rather than asking questions to which you already know (or think you know) the answer.
No wonder we have no money.
This is a test. The enemies of this website have blocked my posts here.
As for CUBA, HA HA what a show and White House briefing with JAY meat-head Carne, lies,talks stupid, Maria the screamer at the STATE dept. BRIEFING, used the exact JAY words of LIES, good team work, bunch of Idiots Jay is Obama´s man FRIDAY. Maria can up from CIA to STATE briefing so you know the rats are everywhere. We are all on a Short Choker collar.
First there was religion (spread morals and family values to stop the sheep from killing each other (marriage: 1 man and one women to keep the family size under control and that they multiply and become soldiers.
Once it became self perpetuating the TV arrived to keep the family week and distracted and create a happy workforce which dreams of being rich and famous, selfish and proud when their abstract community wins in footbal, the family lost interest in its own strength and the individual made their own way rather then growing in strength they just became an extension of the state. Religion had achieved it’s primary goal and has now a secondary function. Mainly to divide generations and families into believers and non believers. The TV proofed to be a much better tool for corrupting the human mind. The Tv mainly spreads errors in logic by promoting fallacies. Fallacies have been know for 2000 years and are the cause of all human misunderstandings and results in a population that cannot conduct simple debates to gain important and new knowledge.
Then the Internet arrived and you’re honestly telling me your surprised that it is being used as a weapon?
Society is a prison, with a workforce and police (prison guards) and construction team (army) to expand the labour camp. If you want to change society to be for the good of all mankind then you haven’t understood that society will always be a prison for human. Each family needs.the freedom to develop and grow in strength generation after generation. That freedom has been taken and replaced by a wasted life working for other people and becoming a little part in a huge empire. By nature empires exploit, invade, destroy competition, use the workers in the most efficient way whilst pretending they are free.
The conclusion is, there is no alternative and it is predictable that the remaining empires will destroy each other, the work force
Nothing unexpected here. Every nation has a propaganda program of some kind.
Wow. What a wonderful contribution to the discussion.
That is precisely the type of response one could expect from someone that is in the spook business or has otherwise been trained by the military. These people use simple one-sentence maxims to define their thinking on any number of subjects. See…everyone else does it so it’s okay.
This is true. The real question is how to make the propaganda effective. Why is Twitter a success and ZunZuneo a failure? The answer is obvious: there is money to be made in propagandizing Americans, not so much with Cubans.
Americans deny being propagandized; it’s illegal for our government to do that they say. This is true in a limited sense – in America, the government serves propaganda rather than the other way round. The premise of the system… call it Americanism, call it capitalism, call it what you like (h/t Al Capone)… is that everyone consume as much as humanly possible. So the people are subjected to the greatest barrage of propaganda in history, urging them to buy cars, clothes, food and entertainment. The government’s role is mainly to facilitate this consumption – so there is no need to propagate propaganda on behalf of the government – they are only a means to an end.
Why is this propaganda so effective? Because it tells people exactly what they want to hear. They are the most important person in the world, and deserve to have their every need catered to and satisfied. In the face of this appeal, even I would have to update my propaganda of urging the people to self sacrifice and fulfilling their duty. The Americans have simply come up with a better message.
Why is this propaganda so effective? Because it tells people exactly what they want to hear.
Stellar points Mussolini. That propaganda is so smooth and palatable one doesn’t even have to swallow; it just slides down. It’s that very reflexive nature that speaks to the social paralysis that continues to hold us in check.
I was recently watching old footage of the Watergate Hearings. I was a very young girl when that happened, but I can still remember being riveted to the TV set watching my parents watch in horrified fascination (I’d never seen my mother, in particular, so electrified by anything on the TV). I couldn’t fully grasp everything going on, but my parents’ responses conveyed that it was monumental. When you see that footage the wattage being generated in the Senate Chambers is palpable. It was clear, event to a child, that the country was in crisis and even more clear that everyone was taking that seriously. It’s the only thing all of the adults were talking about.
I can list numerous things, without even straining, that have happened in the past decade that trump Watergate and make it look like Tricklegate, and yet the public, as a whole, continues to slumber through. It’s no longer clear if there is any revelation profound enough to awaken the public to the urgency of acting on these revelations.
That’s such a simplistic view. Governments have overt propaganda and covert propaganda. For example, RT could be thought of as an overt Russian propaganda outlet. That is, everyone knows it’s funded by the Russian state, just like everyone in Cuba knows Radio Martí is a US propaganda outlet. ZunZuneo, on the other hand, is a covert program, whose purpose is to deceive a population into thinking it’s something it’s not, in order to destabilize a government.
Is there evidence of covert Russian propaganda projects in the US? I don’t believe there is. Basically, like everything else having to do with modern imperialism (militarism, global surveillance, international aggression, meddling in foreign politics, violation of international law, etc.), yes, other countries do it too, but absolutely no country comes close to what the US is doing.
The real problem here is not ZunZuneo, Radio Martí, RT, or GG on Twitter. The real problem is that the majority of people have never been taught how to think critically. We now live in in age where the average individual thinks and speaks in an abbreviated form that does not allow for an in depth analysis of the issues that consume them. Thus, they tragically rely on the opinions of “authorities” or “experts” to guide them. This is why people like GG have resorted to mediums that only possess the capacity to convey message multipliers that are specifically calculated to resonate with the “faithful.” We have become a texting and twitter culture. If an issue cannot be condensed and conveyed in a 140-character string it simply is not worth considering. Is it any wonder then that the CIA and NSA encourage the proliferation of option-limiting ideas via mind numbing technologies.
How this embarrassing story get leaked?
Cuba has twitter?
I know nothing about the Cuban internet,
but I’m surprised, nonetheless.
Good write up here
US SECRETLY CREATED ‘CUBAN TWITTER’ TO STIR UNREST
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter-stir-unrest
Notice how we funneled money through USAID it’s the same thing we did in the Ukraine
Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution.
http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/
The percentage of internet users in Cuba is about 25%, which is low, but it’s not the lowest in the region. Haiti, for example, has 10% penetration. In fact, Cuba might be above the median for Central America.
My understanding is that bandwidth is very poor, for a variety of reasons, sanctions being one of them.
ZunZuneo appears to be an SMS system, not an internet one, though.
Couple of things, maybe OT, but I think they may be of interest.
The Guardian has a report on dismissal of the drone suit. I definitely agree with the lawyers for the families. The link:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/05/drone-killings-case-thrown-out-in-us
Also, at least where I live, on C-Span right now is the Secrets +Security panel with Greenwald, Poitras, and Gellman. They all appeared via Skype. I did start to watch, but found it just too difficult to hear them. I’m pretty sure this will be available at the C-Span site . So if you are missing it or (like me) want to see if online is a better option, that might work.
Look around the planet and tell me this axiom hasn’t been true for at least 2000 years.
“Remember: Evil exists because good men don’t kill the government officials committing it.”
To those who think your words here mean diddley fucking squat to the USG..let me introduce you to THOSE who know what the REAL meaning of the Constitution means and why the coming apocalypse of civil war is real.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2014/04/ct-rally-photos.html
ps…here’s another clue.
http://blog.arrestrecords.com/infographic-the-militarization-of-our-police-forces/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqbqHiRn9AQ
a clue for you… (guns don’t mean diddley neither)
Meh! Political power flows through them, WG, as every neoFascist knows. Otherwise, the criminal cartel that owns the US gov’t would not be assiduously attempting to remove firearms from the possession of regular citizens.
All humans have the right to self-defense, not just approved officials who lobby against gun ownership but retain batteries of well-armed body guards.
The amusing thing about this link, when coupled with the following “ps…” one is if this “war” were to take place between “THOSE who know what the REAL meaning of the constitution means” and the “here’s another clue” militarized police force etc it would be a very quick one. 3% of gun owners V the powers that be.
Hey Joe… Where you going with that gun in your hand?
quote”Hey Joe… Where you going with that gun in your hand?”unquote
Dear Mr. Hendrix, in the year 2023, what will you say to your progeny when they ask where were you when the SHTF?
Up From the Skies by Jimi Hendrix: (Snipped)
I heard some of you got your families
Living in cages tall and cold
And some just stay there and dust away
Past the age of old
Is this true?
Please let me talk to you
Very good reason to promote and establish well regulated citizens’ militias in every community and expand gun proficiency and ownership to every well-trained, qualified man, woman, and responsible child over the age of 12.
Even the militarized police fear such a development, requiring as it would the mass murder of all citizens, an event the PTB would no doubt prefer to avoid due to the negative publicity it would garner. They prefer more secretive and subtle forms of murder. But that is beside the point of powerfully observing and respecting the intent of the Bill of Rights.
“Forget?: Crimes are committed and evil is a concept. ”
Axiom of Evil.
Evil exists because good men and women don’t identify and excise their own indulgences of the evil instinct and its urges that inhabit every human heart.
Killing other human beings is one of those evils.
“There are causes worth dying for, but none worth killing for.” Albert Camus
If these programs are not designed to target US citizens, then where is the social media manipulation of weibo, vk and other social networks utilized primarily by foreign nationals? If it is to be argued that the targeting of US Citizens is a by-product of authorized foreign intelligence operations, then the lack of usage of these sorts of social networks, which would have a minimal blowback effect on influencing US opinion, is prima facie evidence that the purpose is primarily to influence domestic and not foreign sentiments.
In order for this not to be true, either (a) The NSA has no idea how foreign nationals use the internet, which seems unlikely at this point or (b) They’re specifically manipulating domestic opinion and pointing out that foreign nationals also use these other networks.
When we look at the papers released on OSINT and datamining and similar, how come its always utilizing websites that Americans use, for instance google or bing, but not websites primarily used by foreign nationals such as yandex or baidu– which would yield better results for anything targeting those countries.
Why where there examples utilizing CNN for quantum insert and not say pravda? Does this not mean that as a by-product of the style of operations that domestic journalists are inevitably targeted enmasse to have their sentiments manipulated and as such these programs directly affect the type of news that is even reported in the US? yielding a multi-layer impact on the opinions and news available to Americans directly resulting from Posse-Comitatus Act restricted entities manipulating domestic opinion online?
From the leaked document: ”2009 SIGDEV Conference: ‘Best Yet and Continuing to Improve’”
“conducted four “hands-on” workshops that brought together analysts from various agencies to work on some of the…most challenging problems…one of the workshops.. was dedicated to botnets.* This provided an opportunity to demonstrate some of the Agency’s most powerful analytic tools…and techniques that are used in the identification and processing of this malicious software, generating possible new ways for identification and exploitation.”
*Definition from Wikipedia: Botnets sometimes compromise computers whose security defenses have been breached and control conceded to a third party. Each such compromised device, known as a “bot”, is created when a computer is penetrated by software from a malware (malicious software) distribution. The controller of a botnet is able to direct the activities of these compromised computers through communication channels formed by standards-based network protocols such as IRC and Hypertext Transfer Protocol
This was in 2009, where they smugly note that this is the “best yet and [that they are] continuing to improve.”
Makes one wonder how many botnets that are now running around the our internet and our personal computers after 5 years of these folks working to “improve” our personal liberties?
Reminds me of something I read about USAID’s role in destabilizing Syria by simply rejecting applications for aid after the country was devastated by drought:
“Syria has been convulsed by civil war since climate change came to Syria with a vengeance. Drought
devastated the country from 2006 to 2011. Rainfall in most of the country fell below eight inches
(20 cm) a year, the absolute minimum needed to sustain un-irrigated farming. Desperate for water,
farmers began to tap aquifers with tens of thousands of new well. But, as they did, the water table
quickly dropped to a level below which their pumps could lift it.
In some areas, all agriculture ceased. In others crop failures reached 75%. And generally as much
as 85% of livestock died of thirst or hunger. Hundreds of thousands of Syria’s farmers gave up,
abandoned their farms and fled to the cities and towns in search of almost non-existent jobs and
severely short food supplies. Outside observers including UN experts estimated that between 2 and 3
million of Syria’s 10 million rural inhabitants were reduced to “extreme poverty.”
The domestic Syrian refugees immediately found that they had to compete not only with one another
for scarce food, water and jobs, but also with the already existing foreign refugee population.
Syria already was a refuge for quarter of a million Palestinians and about a hundred thousand people
who had fled the war and occupation of Iraq. Formerly prosperous farmers were lucky to get jobs as
hawkers or street sweepers. And in the desperation of the times, hostilities erupted among groups
that were competing just to survive.
Survival was the key issue. The senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO)
representative in Syria turned to the USAID program for help. Terming the situation “a perfect
storm,” in November 2008, he warned that Syria faced “social destruction.” He noted that the Syrian
Minister of Agriculture had “stated publicly that [the] economic and social fallout from the
drought was ‘beyond our capacity as a country to deal with.’” But, his appeal fell on deaf ears:
the USAID director commented that “we question whether limited USG resources should be directed
toward this appeal at this time.” (reported on November 26, 2008 in cable 08DAMASCUS847_a to
Washington and “leaked” to Wikileaks )”
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/your-labor-day-syria-reader-part-2-william-polk/279255/
Wikipedia is a disinformation platform as well:
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/02/05/intelligence-agencies-wikipedia/
Trust the internet? Someone needs to develop a manual: ‘Disinformation for Dummies’
I agree wikipedia is one of the most consistently biased sources I have ever seen.
This is an over-generalization. That Wikipedia is an information platform, yes; but that it exists to misinform is inaccurate.
All information sources, particularly those that are more open-source and editable such as Wikipedia are subject to manipulation – but in the end it remains only a single source of information.
That said, prudence and discretion dictate that before forming a conclusion, one needs to search for more than one source of information in order to make a suitably informed decision.
Manifestly, the USA powers-that-be, like those in the the monarchronistic UK, so deeply distrust the very concept of a democracy that they seek systematically to contaminate and subvert, and to pollute and shape the Zeitgeist by modes of undue influence. Perhaps interesting to readers here is a variant version (in the fields of psychotherapy and psychiatry) of the German term for such unzulaessige Einfluss — viz., Machtmissbrauch (= Power Attack).
I see I was derelict in omitting to offer a splendid variant in the English of today: viz., mind-fuck.
Thank you Mr. Greenwald.
Once again you lead your readers to the global domination platform of mass control. It is, however, sometimes difficult to see “forest from the trees.”
Perhaps a historical review of the “U.S. Agency for International Development” with an eye on the original
Funding might help to clarify the existing organization’s true mission.
See History at this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Agency_for_International_Development#U.S._Government_foreign_aid_agencies_before_USAID
Follow that to the parent umbrella conglomerate otherwise known as the UN.
See: https://geneva.usmission.gov/
One can then expand the logical sequence to conclude that the true mission of the Parent Organization (UN) is hardly innocuous.
Perhaps this information will help to clear a small path.
As always wishing you the most benevolent outcome in your endeavors.
In sum, the State sponsors trolls.
Among the atrocities of torture, murder, war, secret surveillance, dirty tricks, bioweapon research (and probably deployment), vigorous prosecutions of whistleblowers, subsidies for oil companies while dismissing climate change, prisons filled with the impoverished, the addicted and the deranged unregulated fracking which poisons groundwater …. (sigh)
I suppose hiring and training trolls isn’t the worst thing the State does, but it’s still despicable.
Here’s a clue for the Grand Poobahs of Propaganda and Piety
As a rule, it seems to me, the more agents within an institution must lie (conceal, misdirect, bully, give half-truths, hide evidence, etc.) to promote the institution’s agenda, the more corrupt that institution and its agenda.
Equally so, the less deserving of respect all the people in that institution — from top to bottom.
When sick fucks run things, everyone else gets sick — and so must call what is sick, “healthy” and what is healthy, “sick.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/obama-to-lift-minimum-wage-for-federal-contractors/article16540690/
From the above:
“The White House promises a full-court press of social media to enhance the speech…”
======
And just exactly HOW is the Liar and Murderer in Chief going to do that? Are his employees going to indentify themselves as that when they take to the social media?
No, they are not. Here is how “they” are going to do it, but first you have to understand that in a “democracy” such as the Canada’s and the US’s, manufacturing consent is a top priority. Their bewildered herds must behave as the relatively small number of people that make up “the powers that be” want them to behave because the people that make up the herds occasionally go to polling stations to make marks on ballots and they must somehow be made to make their marks in the correct places.
This is the reason for the public-school brainwashing, inculcation of myths and 24/7 MSM propagandizing that most Canadian and US citizens must endure. This “system” has kept the bewildered herds voting for either side of the same political coins time and time again.
(For example, anyone who thinks that a majority NDP or Liberal government in Canada will behave any differently than the present one when it comes to wildly expanding “Canada’s” exports of tar sands products is living in a dream world.)
But how is the bewildered herd going to be controlled in the internet age?
Ever hear of Persona Management Software? If not, take a look at the following:
h….ttp://www.seankerrigan.com/docs/PersonaManagementSoftware.pdf
(Intentional broken link. Copy and paste in address bar, then remove dots between h and ttp.)
Ever hear of “Operation Earnest Voice”, or the software company named Ntrepid?
h….ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntrepid
Carrying out the above strategy, there will always be plenty of “people” making pro-government comments and criticizing those who oppose wars, the security/surveillance state, corporate control of politicians, etc. on the internet.
“These ideas–discussions of how to exploit the internet, specifically social media, to surreptitiously disseminate viewpoints friendly to western interests and spread false or damaging information about targets–appear repeatedly throughout the archive of materials provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. Documents prepared by NSA and its British counterpart GCHQ–and previously published by The Intercept as well as some by NBC News–detailed several of those programs, including a unit devoted in part to “discrediting” the agency’s enemies with false information spread online.”
OK. Everyone knows that in 1948 Operation Mockingbird was initiated by CIA officer Frank Wisner with the clandestine aim of influencing domestic and foreign media. Wisner was operating with a US sanctioned mandate to create an organization that concentrated on “propaganda, economic warfare; preventive direct action, including sabotage, anti-sabotage, demolition and evacuation measures; subversion against hostile states, including assistance to underground resistance groups, and support of indigenous anti-Communist elements in threatened countries of the free world.” “By the end of the 1950s, outlays for global propaganda climbed to a full third of the CIA’s covert operations budget. As many as 3,000 salaried and contract CIA employees were eventually engaged in propaganda efforts. The cost of disinforming the world cost American taxpayers an estimated $265 million a year by 1978, a budget larger than the combined expenditures of Reuters, UPI and the AP news syndicates.”
The second prong in its strategy to win the “hearts and minds” of war-wary Europeans was to “create an appreciation of US culture and government” through a CIA front organization, The Congress for Cultural Freedom:
…the CIA… promoted symphonies, art exhibits, ballet, theater groups, and well-known jazz and opera performers with the explicit aim of neutralizing anti-imperialist sentiment in Europe and creating an appreciation of U.S. culture and government. The idea behind this policy was to showcase U.S. culture, in order to gain cultural hegemony to support its military-economic empire. The CIA was especially keen on sending black artists to Europe — particularly singers (like Marion Anderson), writers, and musicians (such as Louis Armstrong) — to neutralize European hostility toward Washington’s racist domestic policies. If black intellectuals didn’t stick to the U.S. artistic script and wandered into explicit criticism, they were banished from the list, as was the case with writer Richard Wright.
The Congress for Cultural Freedom was founded in 1950 and secretly funded by the Central Intelligence Agency through a variety of fronts. Its stated aim was to dissuade and/or marginalize American “leftists” who advocated cooperation with the Soviet Union. By 1975, the CCF was operating in 35 countries. CIA funded media outlets was a direct outgrowth of the CCF. The CCF was an outgrowth of Operation Mockingbird.
With the passage of time, The CIA has employed ever-more sophisticated methods to disguise their efforts, but with the same intention of creating the illusion of choice between options that, in the final analysis, are intended to facilitate the unfettered flow of transnational capital. In recent decades, the use of NGO’s has become standard operating procedure for the CIA as such organizations give the appearance of non-governmental independent action. To further mask their true intent, these NGO’s often provide a number of seemingly neutral services that target education, AIDS relief, Child-trafficking, etc.
While most American still remain ignorant of the CIAs long-established use of NGOs as an integral element of their propaganda machine, a few astute political critics have been outspoken concerning the duplicitous role of NGOs in various venues. In reflecting upon the activities within the Ukraine, author Justus Leicht wrote a 2004 article entitled, “The Creation Of The Ukraine “Democratic” Opposition” wherein he makes the following observation:
“Freedom of Choice is an umbrella organisation founded in 1999, ostensibly consisting of over 300 different groups. According to its own sources, it is supported by the following institutions: the American, British and Canadian embassies; the National Democratic Institute, which is chaired by the former US sectretary of state (under Clinton) Madeleine Albright; the International Renaissance Foundation (IRF), which is the Ukrainian offshoot of the George Soros-financed Open Society Institute; the Eurasia Foundation, which is likewise financed by Soros and the US government; the World Bank; the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe; the US Agency for International Development; Freedom House, chaired by ex-CIA director James Woolsey; and the right-wing Konrad Adenauer Institute of the German Christian Democratic Union (CDU).”
Wilhelmina,
When mass quoting and/or copying and pasting anothers words, please supply quotation marks around them, and cite the sources for these. Thank you.
Regards,
Sillyputty
Apologies, but now is the time when I complain that reading is hard. Reading is hard, goddammit! I require my words smushed up into easily digestible baby bird noms, thank you very much. Did have a bit of a hard time following this article, though – just feedback from someone who’s not as familiar with the info and probably doesn’t make the same logical leaps. Examples – paragraph 5 – didn’t see that the topic had switched rather suddenly to a new example and was wondering what SIGDEV had to do with JTRIG; paragraph 6 for ‘such proposals’ I thought ‘huh, what proposals'; paragraph 7 I don’t quite understand what ‘for instance’ was in reference to because the above paragraph is about agencies synchronizing and I’m not clear on how that relates to Royal Concierge. Also, and probably most noteworthy, none of the paragraphs were paraphrased by an absent-minded but lovable and sometimes sassy cartoon bear or woodland creature, which really should be included in all future stories. C’mon. Let’s make reading fun here.
This article does seem to get into more what have traditionally been considered legitimate aspects of intelligence, i.e., their dealings with foreign targets. I don’t have a background context on this to know what’s standard operating and what’s unusual or new, what international regulations are if any in these cases, how this stacks up to other countries, etc. Although I must say, if I took this entire article and pretended it was about what some other government was doing to Americans, it would be disturbing.
Obviously, the US would claim that covertly propagandizing foreign populations is a perfectly legitimate practice. It’s unclear if the NSA is propagandizing domestically, although with the internet the it would be practically impossible to compartamentalize propaganda at national boundaries.
Would it be perfectly legitimate for Russia to covertly propagandize Americans, create fake services and personas, secretly fund certain opposition movements or politicians favorable to it, etc.?
Yes, the propaganda part I saw, referencing more the multiple other programs referenced in this article (let’s see if I can get them all):
1. GCHQ ‘discrediting’ people online – based on prior article about this although targets are not clear to me. There are implications here that this could potentially be used domestically given the nature of the internet but, again, I’m not clear on what, if any, regulations are in place for target selection.
2. New document (which, my bad, paragraph 3 does say was prepared for SIGDEV, and the actual document linked references Royal Concierge – although c’mon, give your lazy ass readers a break, all that clicking and reading mid-article, geez. I prefer to read the article first and click links later.) – A lot of the language in that like “propaganda”, “deception”, “pushing stories” on social media is indeed worrisome, but without much real-world context it’s hard to know what they mean. Also not clear to me who the intended targets of that program are.
3. The SIGDEV conference itself, just the idea of it being such a large gathering of diverse groups working together. I don’t see a problem with that in and of itself, although in certain contexts it could look concerning.
4. Royal Concierge – It mentions diplomats and government officials, this is an area where I’m not sure what’s par for the course. Maybe any diplomat in Russia or half the countries out there assumes they’re being spied on, I don’t know.
5. Credential harvesting with journalists – not sure what countries or types of targets this is applied to or what it means in real-world terms, i.e., “feed information to a target”. Assuming this is a journalist approaching another person under the guise of setting up an interview, how much information would they have the opportunity to feed them? (Side note – if you live in Cuba and are approached by a journalist who randomly wants to invite you to their book club where they are reading “The UK Constitution – In Pictures!”, be suspicious.)
6. The 2008 Barstow story – details of that are known, unless I’m really naive I assume we’re more or less in consensus that this was not a good thing.
I think there are risks conflating surveillance/disruption of the relatively powerful vs. the relatively powerless. Glenn seems to touch both in this article, and it’s fairly murky IMO.
Yes, I think that’s a pretty good summary – not sure what to make of most of this without additional context.
I’m wondering about a number of pages I follow on Facebook and accounts on Tumblr. They’re leftist or left leaning. I’m wondering not so much if, but which are run by intelligence agencies. I’m frustrated, and wondering if The Intercept could post some safe and effective accounts to follow. The worst thing about these fake accounts is that they’re designed to spread misinformation; I don’t want to be deceived.
So much for fair play. The US loves ‘fair play’ as long as the play is fair to it.
What wonderful phrase to describe what you do to journalists who work in foreign news agencies. How do you harvest a journalist? Well, some of them might be the low hanging fruit on the plentiful trees of indiscretion, but when you have the metadata from everyone’s communications, how hard can it be to get almost anyone to cooperate with you? Of course you already know that all that metadata does not stop terrorism, but oh, the purposes it has!
One rotten apple at a time?
Look no further than Iraq, to believe a despot is disposed and an entire nation welcomes liberators and wants to become a full scale democracy.
It’s a mistake of American and British spy agencies to think they can change the hearts and minds with fervent desires of a better life.
So, D.C.’s poodle, Little Brit, tries to manipulate its people. Ho Hum! As opposed to the glorious US of A, they don’t have a Bill of Rights to ignore.
No doubt the rest of the world has noticed that USAID is a propaganda arm of US imperialism. All the poor bastards with polio and other diseases in oppressed countries can thank the Greatest Democracy in the History of Forever for ensuring more innocent aid workers will die because of D.C.’s subversive lies.
Rescue the Constitution. Save the planet. Impeach Obama!
“Rescue the constitution”?
Seriously ?
The Constitution set this whole farce up by using elected “representatives” to do the bidding of the super rich.
All “representative” democracies have failed in practice. We need no more evidence of that fact.
It is time WE THE PEOPLE create and implement an open source direct democracy (OSDD) .
To do that we will need an open source of funding that eliminates the US dollar as well.
Direct democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what’s for dinner. Tyranny of the majority.
What you want is liberal dollops of knee-jerk law creation and Constitutional convention, rather than considered, slow, deliberate process and adherence to law. You don’t want accountable law enforcement of existing legislation, you simply want to laze out and attempt to endlessly authorize your way out of this.
Sounds good to me. Hey, ANY form of government that engages the citizenry in self-government – rather than the Chicken Little Faith in our “leaders” keepingussafe – would be a big step forward.
I wish that there had been more fallout and attention paid to the grotesque stratagem of pretending to inoculate Pakistani children in the hunt for Osama bin Laden. Incalculable harm was done to all aid workers– who have to work overtime to overcome innate fears about their programs –to the children who didn’t even receive real medicine, and to this country’s reputation. Heads should have rolled –and not bin Laden’s– for that miscarriage of justice. (Bin Laden should have been tried in a court, signalling the US’s intention to return to rule of law.)
Along with this Cuban travesty, that debacle wounded a reputation already in tatters. Seriously: Is there anyone in the world who trusts this country anymore? If so, on what specific grounds? What we do behind closed doors has been shown repeatedly to be vile; what happens out of sight beggars the imagination.
I also wonder why there have been so few serious efforts to explore impeachment. Bush should have been impeached but wasn’t; that doesn’t mean all war criminals should have a perpetual carte blanche on future crimes. I’ve come to wonder if Obama’s decision not to pursue charges was calculated because he knew from the moment he took office that he fully intended to extend the same policies, and was therefore already writing his own dispensation to do whatever the hell he pleased.
I should add that that “return to rule of law” and reference to reputation are qualified by the awareness that they have always been more problematic than they seem. There was no Golden Age, but that doesn’t mean we have to settle for this cesspool.
“more problematic than they seem.” “There was no Golden Age.”
Nice tap dance. Is this code for “I support our system I just want bad shit to stop?”
If you care about the “reputation” of this despicable system, you’re an apologist for it.
The “rule of law” meme needs to stop. I know Greenwald has based an entire career on it, but it has no meaning in the context of the system we have. We’ve never had a system that was fair to the oppressed. What is it you’re willing to “settle for?”
What, specifically, do you feel are the proper goals and actions to take vis-a-vis “our system?”
“The ‘rule of law’ meme needs to stop.”
not that you offer/reference anything resembling a coherent alternative, of course, but let’s try to unpack how/why it “has no meaning in the context of the system we have”:
how about NOT “in the context…”? what, to your mind, is the proper time/place (if any) for (a) ideals, (b) theory?
Background on the CIA vaccination project:
“In its zeal to identify bin Laden or his family, the CIA used a sham hepatitis B vaccination project to collect DNA in the neighborhood where he was hiding. The effort apparently failed, but the violation of trust threatens to set back global public health efforts by decades.” –
This misguided mind-set epitomizes the narrow thinking that our government’s still are allowed to follow.
As a result, the violation of trust threatens us more than bin Laden or terrorism ever did.
The bottom line is that we have to break the paradigm that secrecy is the best policy – always – and get back to policies that are based more on who we are as humans, and not what we fear others humans might do.
Violating the public trust in order to protect the public “carte blanche” is no longer a workable policy; instead this protection must come first with the public’s approval, and then with the proper accountability and oversight to ensure that it remains so.
To continue as we are endangers us all.
There is a distinction.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/
Being a victim, survivor, or whatever else is politically correct this month, of polio myself, I can attest to the lifetime that is forever changed by those criminals responsible. These are people being used in an inhumane plot to not only increase the incidence of Polio, but also undermine the trust of the whole medical community. I just remembered a couple, physically challenged, differently abled. Whatever it’s called, recovering from polio is a lifetime pursuit.
Since you didn’t impeach Bush leave Obama alone.
Since you didn’t impeach Bush leave Obama alone.
Two wrongs make a right?
Impeach Obama’s X-chromosome.
arrest his shadow and echo as well………..
quote:”Since you didn’t impeach Bush leave Obama alone.”unquote
Dr. Ms Halfwit… Fuck you. I did everything in my power as a citizen to see that fucking scum bag impeached, notwithstanding hung as a war criminal. As to Obama..leave him alone? Fuck you. Obama is 10 times the war criminal as Bush. In this universe, conspiring to cover up war crimes is the same offense as the war crimes them self, notwithstanding Obombers authorizing the vaporization of a 16 year old American citizen, not to mention hundreds if not thousands of innocent human beings on this planet. So take that “leave Obama alone” crap and stuff it up your fucking ass.
What’s wrong with Truth and Reconciliation? I want to know what the hell they’ve done, not wait for a decade to be shown a slice of their meatloaf. I want a net worth keeping not a compromise that keeps on stinking.
If we are to go forward without well deserved suspicion, we have to dedicate ourselves to securing the net, not leaving holes in it we might want to abuse. If the government wants citizens’ data, they’ve got to ask us for it first. If we won’t cooperate, then they can get a warrant. For good’s sake, gangsters get more fracking respect! if they want to get it without our consent, they have to prove PROBABILITY, Bobbie, or Tom’s your Uncle, and Sam is a diddler!
It is OK, I know they don’t teach history in American schools – too difficult, but the British Bill of Rights was signed more than 100 years before the American version.
Thanks for the correction. American schools do teach history, but mostly focus on the glorious exploits of our titans of “manifest destiny” and the fact that we beat you Brits in the Rev War by sneaking around and taking potshots at Redcoats. Kind of like the Taliban…
It is good that there is so much information available today to help more people “wake up” There are more of us everyday and, in that instance, the internet is such a positive product for those that are ready to hear. Thanks for sharing.
Isn’t it odd?
Our democratic governments seem to fall under the statutes of the R.I.C.O. Act,
A continuing criminal organization. I would say that if seems rather unsportsman like for the U.S. Government to lock up my Italian brothers (and anyone else for that matter) for the same type of behaviors
On the subject of the steady release of documents and adjoining reporting (calculated by someone here as to when full discloser would be met). We are to believe that there is no possibility of just getting the lot for various reasons already discussed at length (although I expect snowdon himself could organize that if he so wished).. I can’t remember the discussion following where the order of disclosers were mentioned.
Could GG write an article (without giving to much away) about how the decisions are made to choose which docs to report on first.. Of course public interest is the goal but can any light be shed on the “order” of reveals.
I think it’s clear Greenwald’s goal is not the public interest. Collusion with the U.S. imperialists should be your first clue on that one.
If it is clear perhaps you could elaborate?
Is there any evidence of this collusion you talk of that you’d like to share? Do you specifically mean collusion which denotes order and time of releasing documents etc?
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2014/04/call-me-irresponsible-please.html
Now that you apparently are aware of the contents of all the documents, would you kindly give us your idea of how to disseminate the information. We know from experience (Wikileaks) that just dumping the whole pile of documents at once overwhelms the public and 99.9% of the contents are never digested by those who need to digest them.
Again, knowing the contents and number of documents, how and in what priority would you release them?
Oboe:
Art Silber wants a document dump. Art Silber finds foul the fact that Glenn Greenwald works with editors and lawyers who allow the NSA an opportunity to identify any actual harm the release of a document or underacted name might cause (even tho GG et al. reject 99% of these objections).
Art Silber is an anarchist who denounces Ed Snowden for Snowden’s having said that there is such a thing as legitimate spying.
For Art Silber, unless Greenwald and Snowden shriek thy’re going to “burn the muthafucka down!” and dump all the documents, Greenwald and Snowden are, as you put it, “in collusion with U.S. imperialists.”
That’s your view, and you’re entitled. But it is not a reasonable view.
Well said.
This is a pointless argument. Ignore the Silber smears, ignore the ‘rational’ arguments about how much better Greenwald’s approach is to Chris Floyd’s or Arthur Silber’s – they are all sophism and they are all contributing to a false dichotomy, among the many thousands that spring up like weeds in all matters, particularly counter culture opinions or dissenting views. Very very few human beings are really very empathic to a point in which they can put themselves in another’s shoes and then imagine correct outcomes. I’ve heard hundreds of objections based on, it it were them, blah blah blah, when I knew full well that if it actually had been them, things would not have gone that way at all.
At the end of the day, there is no comparing alternate universes. Silber doesn’t know, Floyd doesn’t know, and posters here don’t know.
The point is simply that it WAS Greenwald and Poitras who were contacted and who were privy to these matters and were offered the opportunity to decide how to handle matters. It was NOT someone else. And they made their choices and I think have done a good job, have stimulated a much needed and very extended conversation, and one which may, over a very long spell of time, make some difference.
Since I am one who believes the ‘system’ is founded on poor premises in the first place, I do not think reforms are going to turn this planet into a paradise regardless. And if Silbur or Floyd believe some other method would have transformed the world overnight, they are obviously living in a fantasy world without any knowledge or intuition about history.
Since I do believe our only hope is in transparency, communication, and the flow of information and ideas, I think it’s a very good thing overall that this has happened at all and I think this bottomless quibbling initiated by others who are ostensibly ‘on the same side’ is foolish, poorly considered, and extremely divisive. This seems to invariably happen in all societies which have a certain leaning in terms of 19th century political definitions – in America and the rest of the west, which is capitalist and inherently right wing, it’s always the left shooting themselves in the foot this way. In China, during the cultural revolution, it was the right doing the same. Of course, our left is not really left, nor was their right really right. Never mind that both cultures are authoritarian and those without power quibble and argue amongst themselves endlessly, for the lack of more practical and positive directions into which to aim their energies.
iow, I couldn’t give a damn about Silber’s or Floyd’s opinion on this question, since they have no say in things. However much I may enjoy their respective writings otherwise.
I find the debates on Snowden and the whole process of government uncovered to be far more interesting.
You must be one of those paid trolls, Oboe.
Why? To what end? Of course, those on the pointy end of this stick, NSA, CIA., etc., might think it important to know what’s coming next, but I really fail to understand why folks like us, who just read it, digest it, and try to figure out how to end it would benefit from knowing what’s coming next. Am I missing something?
The roll out of these documents has, from what I can see, already received much more explanation than any other similar circumstance in history. Certainly, the Wikileaks model was a bust because it threw everything into the pot at once and overwhelmed the public and those in the press who wished to be overwhelmed. Timed release, for whatever reason, seems to me to be the way to go.
Let them worry what’s coming next.
Alright put it this way: The documents that serve the public interest would surely come first, but somebody is to decide on what is “most” significant (as there is so much to report upon) and I’m wondering what this process of decision making is based on. I mean the main drone story the intercept opened with was I expect prioritized and I’m wondering what over (not that it shouldn’t have been of course).
While let them worry is fine. There was no suggestion on my part of disclosing what would come next but “how” as you said they would be prioritized.. Because logic would suggest that as time goes buy they ought to be less devastating to NSA et al as what “is” in the public interest comes first… As to tactically releasing documents to actually benefit the public that would require serious planning and is something else altogether.
OFF TOPIC – out of last six (6) articles / posts on The Intercept, five (5) were written by Glenn Greenwald. Take Glenn out of The Intercept and what’s left?
That famed $200M investment into this project, at this juncture, could’ve been $0.00 instead, were Glenn writing on a free Blogger / Blogspot platform and the result would’ve been the same. This is quite a disappointing start for a new venture; no matter how much one may admire Glenn’s work, a venture can’t and should not lie squarely on his shoulders…
Definitely been slow, wondered myself. They’re just setting up shop(in a matter of speaking) Still hiring staff, Editor in Chief and others. Plus, no stories in past several days.
Would be good to be transparent and explain to the readers ‘n posters.
I am not much upset by the seeming delay in others posting work, there must be reasons. Really I more praise Glen (the writing machine) Greenwald for his output.
Ditto for praising Glenn – but he had been enormously productive in Salon and in Guardian as well. Here his productivity makes the whole venture look thin and does not bode well for the future at the moment.
Someone who has PayPal and Ebay in his working portfolio, like Pierre Omydyar has, should not have problems to create a news portal. I doubt they’d go towards some ultra cool, interactive, cross-platform that would encourage audience engagement and participation in a more comprehensive way(s) than just commenting (often just for commenting sake), thus creating something no one has ever seen online, I rather expect a normal news website, with more courage than others.
But, this fast paced world makes me a tad too inpatient so let’s wait and see. I just exercise my right to express my discontent with the form, feel and look of the present Intercept.
> Glenn writing on a free Blogger / Blogspot platform
This site is already using WordPress, which is the best of all possible options. Open source with no corporate parent to control the flow of information.
I find the present web site clear to read. So, adequate. Like yourself I wonder what the final product will be. Fun to speculate. I do wonder why it’s taking so long.
The entire project was outed prematurely, before they’d had a chance to do any of the groundwork that typically remains invisible prior to similar launches. I don’t know how much time it takes to do said groundwork, and maybe someone with that sort of experience can chime in here and give us some sort of idea, but there are other projects that are taking time away from it (writing the articles, book pending, etc), so it’s difficult to predict when it might be complete.
Pedinska, Glenn could invite the entire population of New York in to view the documents and give seminar after seminar regarding the logic behind what method they are using and it still would draw complaints from either the amateur complainers or the pros who are paid to disrupt and criticize. Most folks here are intelligent enough to understand who is who.
“Unbeknownst to the service’s Cuban users was the fact that “American contractors were gathering their private data in the hope that it might be used for political purposes”–specifically, to manipulate those users in order to foment dissent in Cuba and subvert its government.”
Ah.
You mean like they do here at home?
Nothing much to see here, please move along is the government mantra. It is just business as usual.
Unfortunately, Pandora is out of her Box.
Little do “they” know that the joke is on them. People are wise to the Government. I personally am beginning to like the Government. It gives me a chance to laugh hysterically at them……….
@CitizenSane: Yup! Ponder this — I just wonder what the expat Cubans in Miami, NY, and other culturally rich Cuban enclaves will have to say on the matter? Machismo is one thing – but I can. not. imagine. WHAT the pissed off Cuban Latinas will have to say on this matter! Now THAT’s a pandora’s box even I would steer clear of – but await with delicious anticipation to watch it all go down!!!
Ditto the above comments.
[sigh].
That was supposed to be posted under TallyHoGazehound’s comment to Benito. :-s
I feel your pain. ;-)
The real tragedy..is that this..this sick..vicious..deceitful…murderous..SAVAGE “Government”..a Police/Surveillance State..This…is what most of you…actually……..WANT!
Oh..sorry..is that “Off Topic”..better “Report” this post then..maybe try and have it “Disappeared” because you “Don’t Like It”….welcome to Snitch Culture.
America is so sick.
So desperately and violently ILL..that frankly the shear SIZE of the dose of IPECAC required to EXPEL via a massive bout of Vomiting…would require Every Pharmaceutical Company On Earth Working In Concert For Weeks to produce enough of the required medicine to yield the desired effect.
Hypocrisy…Self Deception..CAREFULLY Crafted Mechanisms of Denial and Rationalization…these and more..have become the literal “Foundational Elements” of American “Culture”…while simultaneously CONSTANTLY beating the national chest in most Blatantly Psychotic manner while chanting “USA! USA! USA!”.
This Nation is DEAD!
Gone!
Its OVER!
Only NOISE Remains.
That is all!
The Fake “Left” pretending it stands for something while it becomes the proto Fascist “party” of PURE CONTROL..rabidly censorial and viciously snitch based..political correctness gone MAD and Massively Intrusive “Government”..the Fake “Right” pretending it stands for “Smaller Government” while in point of fact it represents, like the “Left”.. MASSIVELY Intrusive “Government” and out and out Corporate Fascism in the name of “Free Market Capitalism”..sorry..but you cannot be “For” “Smaller Less Intrusive Government” while demanding that said “Government” invade the most..by definition..intimate areas of our lives..marriage and reproduction..
Oh..sorry..again..”Off Topic”..better to be angry about that than whats REALLY Going On..right?
The final sad sick truth can be attributed to Old Adlai S.;
“The People Get The Kind Of Government They Deserve”.
YOU’RE paying for ALL of this..100% of it. NONE of this is “Occurring In A Vacuum”.
So..you must Want it this way.
I mean are you regularly in the habit of buying “Products And Services” that are (a) “Lethally Defective” and (b) You REALLY…Truly…”Do Not Want”?
Really?
No! You’re Not!
Don’t let your hard won mechanisms of Denial and Rationalization interfere…you almost certainly Do Not have one of the “Recalled Toyota’s” in you garage or driveway Right Now..do you?
So this then remains the mystery..WHY are the “Citizens” continuing to pay 100% of the cost of The Destruction Of Their Own Freedom?
Why?
Laziness? Confusion? Denial?
Is it simply “Too Inconvenient” to “Have To”…actually “Protest” by “Not Paying”?
I think thats it.
So “Convenience” is the Fascists “Golden Ticket”..allowing them to continue to do literally Whatever They want and not only Get Away With It..but be PAID…WELL..to destroy our freedom.
I do not pay the “Full Ride”.
No! I Do NOT!
I spend some small amount of time each day making CERTAIN that I contribute the absolute MINIMUM to the destruction of my freedom. Its actually not that “Inconvenient” in the end. I KNOW who the suppliers are..for example..for “Regional” Fusion Centers..and those companies receive NO support from THIS Citizen.
Nor do I pay …….other……..”Fees”.
I just refuse to do so.
Some things…like Democracy and Freedom..are WORTH fighting for…not just Making Noise.
If more people were actually “Angry” about this…and “Shouting”..and not just “Commenting”…then it would never be allowed to continue.
But those in power know all too well…Continued Payment = Approval Of Policy Or Product!
You who continue to pay their salaries…You APPROVE..maybe not “Intellectually”—–which of course the NSA, Kieth Alexander, Clapper and the whole sick psychotic vipers nest of closet Fascists from Obama, The Fake “Left” and Fake “Right” on down Don’t Give A Rat’s Buttocks About—–but “Physically”..you Pay! That..to THEM..IS……”APPROVAL”! Its the only form of “Approval” they require of you…thats much is Certain!
They Do Not Care what you “Think”..can’t yo see that? Only that you Continue Paying!
Tax Strikes and Corporate Boycotts would end this SO quickly that it would be truly a “Paradigm Shift”.
So again and finally…This…IS…What…You…Must…WANT!
Which means…its Over…only the noise is left…
@ectoendomezo: Srsly … you’re preachin’ to the choir. Now… at the risk of being careful what I ask for, what might you have to say on the subject of the “right”? ;-) JK, but kinda not…
The only think I might argue is your comment: “Which means…its Over…only the noise is left…”
— It ain’t over til it’s over. And IMHO this ain’t over – not by a longshot! And FWIW – I thoroughly enjoyed reading your rant.
I gather you are a bit upset…
Me too, and millions upon millions of others.
I do not believe they will win; the apathy that has caused this massive inertia in the masses is lifting, albeit slowly.
The innate longing for Freedom is impossible to quell; history is littered with evidence of dead and dying Plutocracies…
@Mel Farrell:
“I gather you are a bit upset…”
LOL! What gave me away??? :-D
I do not believe they will win. The only apathy is in the hubris displayed by those who are so deluded by confidence that they could ever get away this shit.
“The innate longing for Freedom is impossible to quell; history is littered with evidence of dead and dying Plutocracies…”
— I’ve studied archeology since I was a kid … and to put it into relation to the history of civilization is the cherry on top. What you just said is buried all over this planet. And if that is a quote that yours – and if you think just slipped off your fingertips – I for one say that you sir are poetic. Freedom is all every people that I have ever studied – both the living and dead – have ever lived, fought and died for. It is the most noble fight any of us is privileged to take up.
Not to wax too poetic, one hopes, but a nice fellow a few years back (born1900 and died 1979) had this to say quite some time ago regarding technology’s impact on society – an observation which seems to ring even more true today, when considering these latest revelations:
“Our present society is based materially on an enormously successful technology and spiritually on practically nothing.”
Dennis Gabor, Nobel Prize Laureate – Inventor of Holography.
… said the hologram.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hologram
By the way, is the Intercept looking to recruit Sadhbh Walshe? I like her. She’s good!
As I said the other day, Sadhbh does yeoman’s duty in a field few want to plow. What is so fantastic about her articles is that she takes vast, amorphous forces at work in the prison system, and makes us see them through the lens of the real people who suffer those criminally bad policies. She’s at the top of my Guardian list, too.
This week’s was a dozy. Rich, white, Dupont fortune man walks away from confession of raping his own three-year-old daughter and infant son (this is not contested; he confessed and was found guilty, but the judge decided that prison culture would be too much for him, saying he wouldn’t “fare well” there; meanwhile, back on Main Street in Povertyville, that same week, a poor, black woman was arrested for leaving her children in the car (parked in the shade, 71 degrees F., window cracked) while interviewing for a job. She was kept in jail for a week, may do prison time, and her children have been taken from her.
In fact, several posters linked to or recommended Glenn’s With Liberty and Justice for Some:How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful. These two cases fall resoundingly in that category.
———————
I see that there are now death threats against the judge, which is fundamentally wrong, but she really needs to think this notion that being a rich, white, man calls for exceptions.
Sorry for all the typos (no closed parentheses, etc. etc.) Without even a preview box, much less editing, this is a hard system to use when posting, and challenging when trying to follow a discussion. I can never find where I left off in the thread, and can almost never tell to which post someone is replying. There’s a string of comments under one article where it’s comical figuring out which poster is responding to whom, making the entire string nonsensical, though plenty heated. Someone is telling someone else to “fuck off” and you honestly cannot tell which of the ten people in the thread he/she is addressing, but then, no one has made a reference to or quoted from the person above them, so none of it hangs together.
A suggestion: Until we get a better system, we should all try to address the person or quote a snippet that has inspired the response.
Do we know yet when improvements will be made? I know we keep hearing that they’re pending, but when ? Do we know which styles and formats are being considered? FWIW, I’ve come to think the Guardian’s system is the best I’ve seen. Easy to use and follow, and I’ve come around to seeing the value of nesting.
MM, Amazing good stuff she writes. Also I love some of the comments she attracts. Some people have to work so hard to feel good about themselves while justifying the most amazing ridiculous interpretations of what is happening. From some one with the title SValmont:
Wow! A positive feedback loop, all in the service of showing that there really is no significant racial bias, just a little weenzy bit that gets amplified by the hard cold nature of reality. It takes real skill to come of with something like this and believe in it!
What’s particularly sad about that quote is if you lop off the last 7 words, it could read as a fairly detached explanation of the *negative* feedback loop of racist policing. He seems to understand the disproportion, yet it never “feeds back” into the larger result.
Mike and Benjamin… strange, that comment leapt out at me, too. Her articles attract a very mixed crowd, with some posters routinely and robotically making canned comments about those horrible “Welfare Queens” and “thugs” that they prime themselves to see everywhere. Some of the comments are so judgmental, racist, and cruel that one wonders if anyone can truly be that unfeeling, or if it’s a put-on.
Yet Sadhbh never caves in to the hectoring, nasty, calls for more arrests and executions; she just writes another article highlighting specific ways in which the prison system is broken,while making practical recommendations for fixing it.
“I see that there are now death threats against the judge, which is fundamentally wrong, but she really needs to think this notion that being a rich, white, man calls for exceptions.”
WTF. Talk about being an apologist for the system.
I am not an apologist for the system, as my posting record makes clear. I just happen to think that issuing death threats against a sitting judge isn’t a particularly effective method of solving anything. It’s a good way to land in jail, yourself. Neither the very particular and urgent needs of this mother for concrete help, nor the larger needs of fixing a broken and thoroughly corrupt system are served by the arm chair warriors who think hollow death threats mean anything.
—————————-
Keep playing your trite refrains, Oboe, but don’t mistake being a pain in the ass for being being a change agent. Constantly distorting what I say isn’t the same as saying something yourself.
Barack Obama, a presidential candidate at the time, pronounced himself in a campaign press release “deeply disturbed” by the Pentagon program, which he said “sought to manipulate the public’s trust.”
How right Obama was to feel deeply disturbed by this, how strange then that he completely failed to instigate the cultural change that is sorely needed.
@nojokes: “How right Obama was to feel deeply disturbed by this, how strange then that he completely failed to instigate the cultural change that is sorely needed.”
Well … either he’s drunk on the kool-aid, or he was in on it from the get go. My bet is on the latter. These were conscious decisions he made – and whether he was blackmailed, duped or just plain stupid – he’s been covering asses left, right and center all over this shit as well as for the previous administration. And thankfully – he’s been doing such a piss poor job of it – all we need are the business cards that were being handed out like candy to identify the job titles and names of who did what when and how that shit rolled downhill. Obama will go down in history – and sadly for him – it won’t be for what he thinks it will be or should be … it will be for what he became in spite and defiance of what it could have been. Slow. Clap. Obama.
I personally think that Obama believed most of what he said prior to his first election win, but that he lacked the integrity or courage to stand up for his beliefs once elected, and was very easily persuaded to reverse his opinions by powerful figures in the US military and arms industry.
I think he was in on it from the get-go because of his vote in favor of FISA 2, after saying during the campaign he would filibuster it. The vote came before the election, but after he had clinched the nomination. The bill would have passed even if he had voted against it. Therefore I think his vote in favor of FISA 2 was a signal to the “intelligence” community that he was on board from before the election.
The following question is completely off topic. But I would like to know if there is any documentation, that shows the NSA used information they gathered to destroy a country’s economy.
Glenn and company keep up the amazing work!!
A Return to Eden
-or-
The Great Divide
The Mozilla issue has caused many to realize once again that good and evil do not really get along. Once again to realize that morality causes division–and this seems to offend the morality of some.
It’s not that I don’t understand this position–I have preached that morality itself is the original sin–it’s just that a faithful adherence to this philosophy is cast in impotence.
Because, frankly, what the fuck are you going to do about it? You certainly aren’t going to boycott me.
Is it even possible to speak against morality in moral terms? To argue that morality is immoral?
Be very wary of those who would forgo division before they forgo violence. At the very least, they are lying to themselves.
I would love to believe that there was a philosophical underpinning to this pacifism of morality, instead of a desperate bar fight patron reaching for the nearest weapon, but we all go to war with the army we have.
There is no return to eden, there is only the great divide.
What the fuck are you going to do about it?
A song for you, lastname. Thanks for all the amazing comments.
Here he comes
He floated away
and as he rose above reason
he rose above the clouds
He was seven feet high
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMg_fjZTEk
Such a pessimist! I think what you say is technically true, but to the extent that we don’t want total nihilism and self-annihilation to be the answer to worldly problems, the curative is usually more knowledge and a broader view. I was just reading a theory that we developed abstract thought as a way of integrating sensorimotor information, since those systems couldn’t possibly be aware of themselves. A unified self being the first abstraction, if you will, a compilation of information – obviously every system in an organism benefits when the right hand is not fighting with the left, even if they’re doing different things. I don’t think societies are particularly different.
Of course, within a larger context, team-ism has its place. Was just watching Jacob Appelbaum at Defender’s Days in Stockholm:
http://bambuser.com/v/4504988#t=6373s
…in which he gives the world’s hottest telling of The Prodigal Son. (Although seriously, talk about setting up a system just waiting to be abused… Wait, what, you’ve converted to our side 862 time?!… Yeah, God is testing me with a heart full of doubt. It’s terrible, huh?) In the truest sense, I don’t think such thinking or parables make any sense, because there’s no right or wrong side to be on. But to the degree that we use societies to accomplish human goals, there’s a relatively correct balance or homeostasis to be found there.
@barncat
Thank you for the tune. Just beautiful. Love the chord change into “Comes” and the sound of everything. Whenever I listen to Eno I feel I have been away too long, and I have been away from this album far too long. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy the before science side, but after science is so nice–with the sound of everything.
@Nic
I self identify as an optimist. I love life too much to see myself in any other way. It has been said that an optimist is a pessimist with a sense of humor–although, I could have that backwards.
“…to the extent that we don’t want total nihilism and self-annihilation to be the answer to worldly problems, the curative is usually more knowledge and a broader view.”
I concur completely.
“I was just reading a theory that we developed abstract thought as a way of integrating sensorimotor information, since those systems couldn’t possibly be aware of themselves. A unified self being the first abstraction, if you will, a compilation of information…”
Awesome. I love it.
“…obviously every system in an organism benefits when the right hand is not fighting with the left, even if they’re doing different things. I don’t think societies are particularly different.”
Morality is the mutation that produces change. This is why revolution is always a loser’s game. Agreement is homogeny. Homogeny is death. Or maybe more accurately, homogeny is the lack of death. Evolution is as inextricably tied to death as birth. Morality is simultaneously birth and death–rolled into one convenient package of judgment and redemption. Eden is death. Or maybe more accurately, Eden is the lack of death.
This is where forgiveness enters the stage. The son returns. Here he comes.
I can’t get Jacob Appelbaum to work right now, which sucks. I will try later.
Thanks for the reply and the insight, lastname. Only thing I want to add, for clarification, is that I get what you’re saying about a sort of homogenous oneness being the only way for all the people to be happy all the time. Or at best, if you’re into eastern philosophy, everyone experiencing life with ‘one taste’. What I mean is the difference between every system or organ or cell in the body thinking it’s meant to rule the day (viva la spleen!) so all of them keep a balance by acting *as if* that’s true; vs. all of them ultimately seeing and valuing the system of which they’re a part (unless I’m mistaken our body is, after all, mostly a wildly complicated survival strategy that individual cells came up with.) Numbers with an awareness of the set. I see societies as being very similar, as any of us would be in pretty sorry shape if airlifted to the wilderness and left in isolation. Your hand doesn’t not cut off your ear or pull a splinter from your leg out of ‘love’, exactly, but because when viewed through the frame of reference of ‘self’, that makes no sense – the body has many checks and balances, yes; but really hurting one part of the system reverberates back and hurts all parts of the system, ultimately.
@Nic
Thanks for your replies and insights too.
“Numbers with an awareness of the set.”
Great line.
“I see societies as being very similar, as any of us would be in pretty sorry shape if airlifted to the wilderness and left in isolation. Your hand doesn’t not cut off your ear or pull a splinter from your leg out of ‘love’, exactly, but because when viewed through the frame of reference of ‘self’, that makes no sense – the body has many checks and balances, yes; but really hurting one part of the system reverberates back and hurts all parts of the system, ultimately.”
I agree with this and really like the metaphor of cells and citizen, self and society. We really are very small parts of the whole.
I am torn between division as the ultimate sin, and our saving grace. Division produces the concept of the other and the enemy, but morality is one of the things that allows us to pass on the “best” of our non-physical brains to our children (who will rebel and redefine us as monsters–fucking bastards–I knew we couldn’t trust those lazy little teat suckers). Morality is also a hunger that keeps us off our mental asses. It compels us to keep climbing and keep changing, and these qualities are a big part of why society as a whole has survived this long. Hell, the division of morality is what posits unity as a desirable quality.
I never thought any of this was going to be easy, but we are fraught with so much contradiction. If I believed in god, I would insist she was trolling.
I will say this–Without forgiveness morality would be a sin.
It’s certainly a popular view. Neoclassical. :)
But some beg to differ! An old divide I suppose. Here’s a fun David Graeber column on the subject.
http://thebaffler.com/past/whats_the_point_if_we_cant_have_fun
I’m partial to Dogen. “There is no governor, anywhere”.
That’s a fine essay, but imo, Alan Watts gets closer to the heart (and fun) of the matter. From ‘Psychotherapy East and West':
? When one comes to think of it, the boundary between work and play is vague and changeable. Both are work in the sense that they expend energy; but if work is what must be done to survive, may we not ask, “but is it really necessary that we survive? Is not survival, the continuation of the consistent pattern of the organism, a form of play?” We must be careful of the anthropomorphism which asserts that animals hunt and eat in order to survive, or that a sunflower turns in order to keep its face to the sun. There is no scientific reason to suppose that there are such things as instincts for survival or for pleasure. When we say that an organism likes to go on living, or that it goes on living because it likes it, what evidence is there for this “like” except that it does in fact go on living – until it doesn’t? [] As Wittgenstein says, “A necessity for one thing to happen because another has happened does not exist. There is only logical necessity”.
(Response is to both posts above) – Regarding morality, I suppose if human societies are self-organizing from the ground up then morality will be a part of that and will be a blind process. I see a possibility of something like pantheism where morality is concerned, with the idea that religious ‘revelations’ of a certain type are the spleen or cells in a body vaguely conceiving of, just for a second, the voice in our heads that we call “I”. Not in a metaphysical sense, in the sense that a part can, to some degree, through analogy and inference, become aware of the experience of the whole. It’s also possible that we’re not connected in any such manner and the world is made up of individual agents taking their chances with game theory – I must admit I find that prospect far less appealing for the logistical problems it entails, though.
Test
½ = ½ = ½
❝ = ❝ = ?
❝ = ❝ = ?
barncat… I assume the straightforward answer is ” and “, respectively? Is there a metaphor here? The part is the whole of itself?
JUST DON’T USE SOCIAL MEDIA. IT IS A DRUG TO APPEASE THE MASSES INTO THINKING THEY HAVE POWER BUT ACTUALLY ONLY ZIP.
Good God Glenn! Keep this shit comin’!!!
Let there be no doubt – there is a conspiracy between and among the Five Eyes intelligence agencies (and their “allies”) and within those governmental administrations that have devised and created factories for the sole purpose of eavesdropping on any and every form of communication to engineer, churn out and publish propaganda through the MSM and online to fortify big picture, political agendas. These agendas not only serve to control their own populous, but that of each others as well … and those of whomever they wish to. They do this by illegally and criminally surveilling, collecting, analyzing every gigabyte of data they have at their disposal … and they insist in not only in denying these facts which you gloriously continue to reveal time after time – they are doing everything in their psychopathic powers to hunt down and silence any and every whistleblower, journalist and media outlet that attempts to pull their pants down and expose them and their evil doings.
As I see it, and for what you have shown me/us – they do this independent of each other and collectively share their mindfucking prowess for one purpose and one purpose only – to serve their political aspirations for the eventual and exclusive control of the entire god damn planet and every natural resource known to God and man in direct (or indirect? Pfft!) collusion with MIC, the 1%, Wall Street and corporate elite. They are secretly using our every tax dollar to perform these shams of so-called “democracy” to build their very own banana “republic”, complete with secret courts, secret judges, secret verdicts … and the outcome of which remains their biggest (unkept IMHO) secret.
Every politician, every administrator, every “spy” and every one of their bureaucrats – from the top down are guilty of treason against their own countries and of espionage in others. They are as guilty of this as they are clinically sociopathic … and now paranoid schizophrenia is running rampant through every hall and boardroom located in these very institutions and at their playgrounds of Bilderberg, Bohemian Grove, Palm Springs, Fort Meade and God knows where the fuck else they confer on a “business trip” or “vacation”.
This is true Terror©®™ … and it’s terrifying to contemplate it’s undeniable life force behind such a war waged against humanity.
Thank you so damn much. Thank you Ti. Most of all – thank you Ed Snowden (and the other whistleblowers who are incarcerated in their own or very real prisons). You will go down in history as one of a small band of resistant revolutionaries and truly legitimate heroes. And I pray that the efforts of Glenn, Laura and Ryan – along with every other journalist that is shouting this information from the rooftops is kept out of harm’s way and remains at arms length from the forces of evil until and forever after every last fucking revelation sees the light of day – and every guilty party is tried, sentenced and serving their own life sentence (or die an unnaturally and cruel death – preferably at their own hands). Thank you.
p.s. AND they are using every innocent and genuinely heartfelt soul of their very own military to carry out these atrocities? When I think of all those who have died or been left maimed for life – along with their suffering families – on both sides of their guns – my heart breaks.
Fuck Them – and fuck all their ironic “code names”. They put Hitler, Idi Amin Dada AND Al Queda to fucking shame. As far as I’m concerned, whether they choose to accept it or not, they’ve quietly declared and unleashed WW3 on our planet and are setting about to either enslave or exterminate anyone who gets in their way!!!
I for one am praying for a peaceful fucking happy Disney ending to all this shit – just for those of us who every were duped into blindly trusting these asshats. Fuck. Them. All.
And they dare to squawk about Putin? To pretend that various dictators they don’t like are the greatest threat to democracy? Really?
Putin … NO. KOREA!?! CHINA!?! … seriously – you said a mouthful dude. Democracy is a joke and it’s on us, evidently.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1102569-2009-sigdev-
conference.html#document/p1
2009 SIGDEV Conference
Third paragraph
Brian Ferren, Co-Chairman and Chief Creative Officer, Applied Minds
Inc.,
http://appliedminds.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_Minds
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.as
p?privcapId=2762790
Mr. Cecil C. Rosen
President
Mr. Bran Ferren
Co-Chairman and Chief Creative Officer
Mr. Daniel Abrutyn
Principal
Mr. W. Daniel Hillis
Co-Chairman and Chief Technology Officer
it’s convenient to say the program was run by USAID, if one is covering for the CIA….
it’s convenient to say it was run by USAID, if one is covering for the CIA….
Judging by your past “contributions” ….are you saying the Intercept is covering for the CIA? If so, I heard your moronic statement twice the first time.
I think he comes here just to vent a little spleen. Coming here to do it keeps the stench out of his own space. Sorta like leaving your office to let a particularly noxious fart in the hallway, where unsuspecting others are forced to share in all your skidmark-producing glory. ;-}
Ha!
knowing how deeply embedded the govt/corporate security state’s tentacles are in all our communications and how often the mainstream media parrots the line (the propaganda) of the state department and fails as watchdog over govt and its corporate partners, how could anyone doubt any of this? Of course they’re using social media to propagandize and manipulate dissent throughout the world. Likely it’s happened to some degree in recent unrest in Ukraine, middle east, Venezuela…one wonders about dissent here at home. It’s known that activists here are monitored, targeted, regarded as terrorists…
And we’ve got myriad journalists, trolls, sock puppets doing government-speak on electronic media…
I am thankful for certain online sites, bloggers that I trust to act as watchdogs, to give me the facts.
Women do better than men (Afghanistan):
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/praesidentschaftswahl-in-afghanistan-waehlen-gegen-die-angst-1.1930337-8
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/praesidentschaftswahl-in-afghanistan-waehlen-gegen-die-angst-1.1930337-9
The worst part is surely not so much Govt or even elected leaders spreading muck but unelected likely insane employees of GCHQ. An organisation that watches private web cams and classifies if they have sex/nudity (what a job that is? Do they do it booths with sticky carpets?)
As a result of extensive ongoing and continuous research via diverse written news sources and confirmation of information; along with an understanding of the underlying mechanisms by which those who make such decisions reason; it possible to envision potential scenarios that are of such a drastic nature as to warrant careful attention.
Given the events in the region: the surrounding of China by the US and its allies, the nature of the relationship between the three players, the overwhelming instability in the region and its likely ties to US meddling and other factors; and given the recent trends among world leaders to act hastily and immaturely and completely without regard for the citizens they serve; a chilling possibility now exists given news over the past few days.
North Korea has announced a new type of nuclear test.
Tensions in the region have spiked, with N. Korea being backed further into a corner by US efforts which amount to bullying when you fully examine the situation. And North and South Korea swapped fire, albeit into each others’ oceans.
North Korea will not back down and in fact will meet aggression with aggression and then some, as they are backed into a corner and must make themselves look strong so as to intimidate the aggressor into not attacking; as an animal does when confronted by overwhelming foes. North Korea intends to perform a “new type” of nuclear test.
Given the obvious capabilities of the US intelligence networks, what the nature of the test is, is likely already known to US interests. And if you search for the story (use this in the search engine query: reuters “Japan has ordered a destroyer in the Sea of Japan to strike any ballistic missiles that may be launched by North Korea in the coming weeks”) you can see evidence of what appears to be a planted story. Notice the lack of attribution to a source, other than simply “the source.” I’d love to contact the reporter and ask her to verify her source.
Here’s the thing: such possibilities as this kind of scenario happening are slim, but they do exist. They have happened before, and if you look at history, you would know that they are not only possible, but highly likely. And false flag operations can and do happen, but only if they are allowed to happen because people are not aware.
Think back to Nazi Germany and the false flag operations they used with their propaganda machine to whip the people into nationalistic fervor. Is the same thing not going on these days?
Given the likelihood of a false flag operation, given the circumstances, and most importantly, given the benefits of a carefully crafted propaganda campaign and successful operation to the US interests, I feel it warranted to publish this possible scenario for two reasons: one, to possibly prevent it; and two, if it is missed or does happen anyway, to provide further evidence of my understanding of human nature and these matters. Why? Because my understanding also points to the likelihood that US interests, in their efforts which I hope are simply to create tension to increase arms sales and support our building oil monopoly (it is paid for in US dollars, it makes it a form of a monopoly), will not stop at tensions and will start World War III.
Looking at history, it is precisely these kinds of events that lead to wars. And if our leaders start another globa war; we can know, without a doubt, that our leaders cannot be trusted and do not have our best interests in mind. If our leaders attempt to start war, we should globally rise up and refuse them the possibility, and ourselves declare global peace and submit our leaders for medical treatment for their diseases: psychopathy, and addiction to power.
I encourage you to seek the truth, to verify what anyone tells you and everything you read. Do not simply take for granted what reporters tell you. This story above tells you quite clearly that you cannot trust reporters because they are actively recruited to plant stories to manipulate information. Perhaps what you fail to grasp is the abilities they have and the lengths they are willing to go to. I understand not only what these programs mean as far as their capabilities, but more importantly I understand the mindset, the very mechanisms by which these people formulate their decisions – completely absent moral reasoning. For them to seek to take over the world is not only not impossible, it is very likely, an almost-certainty given the combination of disease of psychopathy (lack of moral reasoning) and addiction to power – more is never enough.
Open your mind to other possibilities than what you are told, and only use what you are told, including this here, as a guide to finding the truth. The truth is something only you can discover, and only for yourself. Why do you think the documents are released with the stories here? So you can come to the same conclusions on your own, so you can verify what you are being told for yourself. You are not expected to take the news for granted, you are expected to take NOTICE of it and use it to find out what’s really going on.
@Major Wolf
You need your own blog. Don’t piggy back on this site.
Don’t get me wrong – you have some original views and they may be quite valid, but please don’t use this space to propagate them.
I am glad you recognize the danger of having original views. Yes, we certainly don’t need any of that around here.
And suggesting people “open your mind to other possibilities than what you are told” is blatantly off topic in an article about government propaganda.
View propagation.. With views like yours why don’t you moderate somewhere else. Get me wrong?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyEdDJGdoqE
Word’s going around that Glenn Greenwald determines what “views” are propagated here.
The post is on topic, and even if it were not, it would be for others to determine its fate.
Well “put”.. However I’m sure very few have been banned thus far. And GG seems to have stopped personally answering certain critics of his “views” (I like to call it reporting). So if this GG propagation is happening he may not be in control of it i.e propagated by people with similar views? (as well as “fans”)
for the dodgy general:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOJCmPKaYN8
Also the thing about a site containing views pertaining to snowdon files and their individual and overall ramifications ought to “propagate” outrage which is basically what has happened IMH”V”. “Opinions” are not facts. The more that is revealed here will force those opinions relating to the facts to be addresses and modified: thus this has the potential to be a good forum to do that in (as this is where the facts are being revealed). Should people prefer them being revealed by a different person in a different style is pointless.
@Worzel… the video is awesome. I envisioned Edward Snowden as the Robin Williams character – but wearing a beret, with a cigarette dangling from the corner of his mouth and drinking some swill on the rocks in one hand while gesturing with the other. But whatevs… the video is great and the imagery and the song are more than appropriate given these latest revelations. I, for one, am waiting with baited breath for the next Bob Dylan to be born of this utter fuckery of a cat’s cradle. There’s plenty of material available and the lyrics and music would be equally inspiring as it would be heartbreaking. America – Fuck Yeah!
The curious thing about the jingoistic appeal of this commercial is that the Dodge Challenger assembly plant is located in Brampton Ontario. Fuck yeah! Canadian know-how!
To whomever it may concern:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/28/us-takes-break-condemning-tyranny-celebrate-obamas-visit-saudi-arabia/#comment-19322
Homey don’t play.
“Homey don’t play.”
Yawn!!!
– General Hercules, earlier in this thread.
Mike also speaks of the possibility of pending war, and you ask him to “please don’t use this space to propagate them.”
Yet you propagate that same idea before he does, and seek to censor him? Clearly hypocritical.
Please don’t use this space to silence other voices – create your own blog for that.
@SillyP:
Say whatever you want, but keep it short. This is Greenwald and co’s blog, let only them be verbose. If you want to write thousands of words to state your thoughts then start your own blog – that’s my opinion. I have nothing against anyone’s opinion, only that keeping it short would be courteous to others. You disagree?
Yes, to the extent that Glenn Greenwald or his proxy decide what “keep it short” is, or that it is even a concern on here – not you or I.
As far as I’m concerned, folks can be as verbose as they like on here; after all, it only takes a few revolutions of the mouse wheel to get past something that you may not want to read – hardly a daunting task.
i disagree entirely and utterly.
is a comment too long for you? don’t read it.
next.
Sillyputty wrote: “Word’s going around that Glenn Greenwald determines what “views” are propagated here.”
Really? Would this be by the usual nit-pickers of Glenn’s writing or some slightly more credible source?
Sillyputty wrote: “The post is on topic, and even if it were not, it would be for others to determine its fate.” Agreed.
I have no problem with Mike’s views, and I find him interesting to read, but at some point I’m guessing a moderator may well limit the amount of space people can take up here as if they were on their own blog where people came to read their thoughts.
Some of the writers are very good, but are using two thousand words when two hundred will do. It is like walking into someone’s house and talking (to their face : ) for 5 minutes straight without noticing the body language telling you that it may be a little too much. In this case the body language that needs noticing is a complaint about the length of the post.
@JK: I know, right?
prop·a·gan·da
noun: propaganda; noun: Propaganda
1.derogatory
information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
“he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda”
synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, publicity, spin; More
the dissemination of propaganda as a political strategy.
“the party’s leaders believed that a long period of education and propaganda would be necessary”
jour·nal·ist
noun
1a : a person engaged in journalism; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium
b : a writer who aims at a mass audience
Journalist ethics and standards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards
shee·ple
noun: informal, derogatory
plural noun
1.people compared to sheep in being docile, foolish, or easily led.
“by the time the sheeple wake up and try to change things, it will be too late”
For people alive before the advent of international instant discussion: I’d say seeing a long post from mister Wolf is more like having the door being knocked on of somebody else’s house when you are not there.
Scroll down! Limiting post characters and introducing “public moderation” is actually down to the intercept. If the content is crap however please keep it short.
“Word’s going around that Glenn Greenwald determines what “views” are propagated here.”
This phrase could be seen as suggesting that Glenn decides what views are initially seen on here, as in moderating the comments for content before they are posted. That was not the intent, nor based on what has been experienced does it seem to be the case.
What was meant is that, according to sources on here, in the end Glenn is the final arbiter of whether any comment posted remains on here or not.
Thanks for the clarification, Sillyputty.
No problem.
i’m glad we want to express ourselves, but that analogy fails on EVERY level. or at least the levels of attention, distraction, property, space, sequential/simultaneous occurrence, and Ability To Skip A Damned Comment.
Isn’t what Fox, MSNBC, and CNN do propaganda? Wasn’t the NY Times propagandizing during the run up to the Iraq war? Maybe the government isn’t directly involved in that but they don’t have to be when former white house aides and children of presidents go directly from the white house to the news room.
@larry: Fox, MSNBC and CNN got nothing on NBC:
“NBC Lands Exclusive With George W. Bush By Letting His Daughter Interview Him”
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/nbc-george-w-bush-interview-jenna-hager
Well… this should be a soft-ball interview. Like a cute little cotton ball … made from kitten fur.
…need I say more:
http://on.today.com/1dXSgsh
Organized Government Stalking
Organized stalking works side by side with illegal surveillance. Harassment tactics include but are not limited to bugging a targets home and parroting, repeating portions of their private conversations in chat rooms or in public. Forced entry, taking items of no value or rearranging them. computer hacking, Noise, sleep deprivation, orchestrated and repetitive instances of road rage/ hostile hand gestures on the road. Brighting, flashing headlights into a targets home. In short it’s Gaslighting. Synchronized and repetitive actions that on the surface appear to be normal everyday annoyances except for their repetitive nature which get a target sensitized to this torturous form of stimuli. The objective is to cause a nervous breakdown and incarceration of the targeted individual. There is a HUGE disinformation campaign about this subject all over the internet particularly on youtube. Fake vlogs featuring wild eyed disheveled people rambling about demonic voices and futuristic weaponry, a website and youtube channel called Osinformers (OSI) is a major disinformation player. Again, Tactics Involved: Parroting, directed conversation, repeating private conversations of a target in public while 2 people talk to one another in the targets presence. burglaries, vandalism, loud cars circling property or passing one another when target leaves the home. 99% of the websites on this subject are FAKE disinformation 99% of youtube videos about gang stalking are FAKE and mix fact with fiction. Demonic voices and futuristic weaponry just one example. “Someone” is spending a lot of time and money to cover this up and discredit gang stalking otherwise known as Government flash mobs. Osinformers is a major disinformation player with websites and youtube channels. They have ties to the government. If someone takes down the people running this website they will get to the bottom of what this is really all about.
@Ron Stewart: ^^^ YES ^^^ YES ^^^ YES ^^^ !!!
— Stalking {check} Propaganda {check} Gaslighting {check} Torture {check} Mindfucking (paraphrased) {check} Parroting {check} Burglary (Larceny) {check} … this is the biggest organized Mafia ever uncovered and exposed in the documented history {check check check and fucking check please!}
You are absolutely correct that there is a huge disinformation campaign about the stalking and harassment teams aka “gangstalking”, which I believe is a term made up by the organization. A better description is “slow kill team”. The weapons are real, they start with the stalking, harassment, surveillance and break-ins…then they move on to deploying experimental military weapons against the target. The cues from the stalking, like the loud fake double cough or whistling, are then used to cue the weapons attack. Directed Energy Weapons have been in existence for 40 years, by 1983 the US Military had spent 2.5 billion dollars on research. The effects of electricity on the human body is currently the greatest area of focus by the Army Research Laboratory. The weapons are targeted by using an RFID chip that has been implanted into the subject usually during surgery. The DEWs can be aimed at various parts of the body or nervous system. Some cause extreme pain in the head, concurrent ear ringing and severe mood changes (anger etc…). Others will cause the victim to feel queasy, faint and limbs to shake uncontrollable. They have the ability to target the heart literally causing it to bounce against the rib cage. There are various techniques/weapons to cause sleep deprivation. I’ve been attacked by targeted allergens that have caused increasingly severe asthma attacks, several near fatal, even when wearing a mask. Recently, I began waking up with small burns all over my body. The list goes on and on and on. Oh the weapons are real and a total nightmare if they put you on their hitlist. Everyday feels like you are starring in horror movie.
@American Gestapo: WoW! “gangstalking” = great word… “Directed Energy Weapon” = I’ve never heard it described in the manner and method as you’ve put it. I thought the RFID chips had a less sinister purpose … if only to track us and measure the smart meter to charge us for oxygen use. The picture you paint is even more diabolical and unholy than I’d ever dreamed and even more satanic than my colorful imagination. I am so sorry for your injuries. I hope you are relieved of your discomfort and the horror of the pain this is causing you. I’d only ever believed there to be a single Anti-Christ … I’m now beginning to think it’s a fraternity of princes of darkness. This shit is biblical, for damn sure! God help them….
I know firsthand about what you write. I’ve written to Greenwald, Poitras, Emptywheel and others — all to no avail. Please help us GG.
I can vouch for what you write. I have written to Greenwald, Poitras and others seeking help — all to no avail. Please, Glenn, there are people whose lives are being ruined right now. Name the names of targets found in the Snowden documents
I have nothing against due process; a show trial is a perfectly good solution to many problems. But fabricating evidence is time consuming and lawyers are expensive – so the government certainly needs some lower caliber methods of dispensing justice. I used to simply send out my blackshirts to beat up the opposition. This not only sends a message, but gives your supporters something to do. However, some people can’t take a hint and stubbornly refuse to become cooperative. In that situation, spreading rumors aimed at destroying their reputation is a legitimate tactic. This is especially true against do-gooders and other charlatans who like to pass themselves off as virtuous.
However, even in my day, the British were the true masters of this art; so it is nice to see they are maintaining their traditions. I would have thought this technique was too subtle for the Americans – threatening you with nuclear bombs is more their style. But they do have a way of surprising you; best not to underestimate them.
May I go on the record as saying how much I appreciate your contributions to these threads? They are quite wonderful, and eminently relevant. Sincerely. Thanks for making the time and expending the effort.
Hear, hear!
What TallyHo said.
@Tally … DITTO! I’ve gone on record to this very conclusion in a previous story. And I’m not asking, mind you, but I wonder if @Benito Mussolini every cusses? And if he does – how angry must he have to get to do let them fly? I do ask myself these sorts of questions, from time to time.
Maybe my instincts are more primal … but even I have come to believe that God himself and every saint above is letting loose a string of profanities so vile, so heinous and and filled with such bitter contempt for these actions that I fail understand how anyone retains their composure with such grace and eloquence. Seriously…
Sticks and stones and all that, ya know? I’m a bit much to take sometimes I’m sure … perhaps a little more rough around the edges for my own good. However my free association of swear words often release the valve on my pressure cooker – plus it just feels good – plus, I suppose the “vocabulary” is ingrained in my DNA. But I will also freely admit and admire said grace and eloquence of not only BM but many other commenters here – it certainly brings me back to my senses and calms me. Thank you to everyone who does that … for me, at the very least.
the British were true masters of this art
Oh yes, Perfidious Albion. If GG’s right we haven’t lost our edge when it comes to deceit and manipulation of the actualite, it would seem. Although times have changed since the days of Kim Philby et al. The BBC have just aired an excellent programme (in 2 episodes) about the old bastard and they’re well worth a watch if you can get it where you are.
GCHQ Cyber “Effects” Mission:
– Destroy
– Deny
– Degrade
– Disrupt
– Deceive
– Protect
— ACROSS ALL TARGET TYPES —
Have we been lectured to by this lot, all the time?
Is this how democracy work?
I am not seeing functional remedies, nor am I seeing ways to protect oneself against these sorts of attacks. Clearly, the solution is to hold perpetrators accountable, but that is not going to happen. Therefore, are there any functional remedies available? Has this gone so far that the only way to pry these sociopaths out of their positions of power is to burn down the house and everybody with them? I hope to God not.
Have Glenn Greenwald or Edward Snowden provided details on how they encrypted their communications? If there’s a particular method that is likely to be safe from government snooping (at least for a little while), it would be helpful for the rest of the world to know what it is. I don’t recall seeing a description of their encryption methods, but I may have missed it.
@JNDillard: I’ve asked myself the very same questions. There is a new tool that is soon to be released that will help protect your communications by encrypting it. I won’t go into all the how’s and why’s but please check this out:
https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2014/04/help-support-little-known-privacy-tool-has-been-critical-journalists-reporting-nsa
The only way to fight this war of technology is to use technology against it. I firmly believe that not only defensive technological tools will provide us all with necessary protection – but offensive and aggressive journalistic watchdogs should be positioned to right these wrongs and be the police in preventing this from ever happening again in any future. I wrote an open letter to GG/TI suggesting as much …
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/03/20/inside-nsa-secret-efforts-hunt-hack-system-administrators/#comment-14141
Consider mine a first draft. I’m sure there are many improvements that can be made. Feel free to expand on those thoughts any way you wish and send it out into the universe. It’s only through creative and effective problem solving – and prioritization and execution of a good plan that any hope of what I racked my brain to produce a suggestion might bear fruit from this tree. I only wish I had the technical expertise, money and connections to project manage the effort myself!!!
I am convinced, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the combined efforts of journalists and the tech community at large can tame this beast and return our world, our lives and our privacy to exactly where it belongs. I pray for that every night. And for peace.
6 hours later and my new posts have still not appeared.
Why Intercept do you continue to allow this site to operate if you can not be bothered to fix it.
If the Intercept comment section was a car it would be recalled.
4 posts of mine have not shown after 6 hours.
Test, test, testing times for the poor silenced plebes.
Will this show?
I figure the odds be less then 50 50.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25ThICK0Fbw
http://www.lyricstime.com/frank-zappa-50-50-lyrics.html
That is no fun. Sorry to hear that. Maybe you should email one of the writers or the editor? All my posts have shown up given a few minutes and reloading of the page.
Dear dontsufferfoolsgladly:
From Me to You… :-)
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/31/nsa-worlds-blows-top-secret-program/
From Alexander’s Starship Enterprise to this, it’s gotten really hard to distinguish reporting from goofy/creepy fiction.
1984 dollface… this literary masterpiece was prophecy come to life!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
My last post seemed to have disappeared.
Yes, it is clear that there are propagandists in Second Life, especially on sims that are meant for people to talk philosophy or ideas. Conversations are manipulated (e.g. steered to safe topics), and obviously so, and techniques of trolls are used to break up conversations or relationships, but never to break up trivial conversations about television shows or chitchat, only to break up conversations where people are developing novel perspectives on current events.
It was interesting to read your comment, NotBlind regarding propagandists in Second Life, especially on sims that are meant for people to talk philosophy or ideas., etc. It is almost identical to the one below it (just prior to yours) from BeliefAvoidanceStrategiesRunningOut, posted just 10 minutes earlier.
Are both of these posts from the same person, perhaps posting again as the first did not appear in a timely manner (which has been happening as the site is still under construction)? Or is there some other reason that two seemingly different posters would make almost identical comments?
Thanks for any clarity you may be able to offer.
Oh, fer Pete’s sake. Not sure how I missed this at the very beginning of your post:
My last post seemed to have disappeared.
Guess I need more coffee…..Still, it is strange that you didn’t make your second attempt under the same posting name……as for your topic, we see a lot of that wherever Greenwald writes.
Hi Pedinska
Yes, I posted under two names. When my first comment under the name “BeliefAvoidanceStrategiesRunningOut” did not show up right away, I tried once again to post the comment, but couldn’t remember the name for myself I had used the first time. :-))) Shows that short names are best.
I tried once again to post the comment, but couldn’t remember the name for myself I had used the first time. :-))) Shows that short names are best.
LOL! Definitely laughing with you, not at you. :-)
Do you think Catherine Fitzpatrick is an example? She’s an odd item for sure–very fascist politics, but started as a second life identity. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Catherine_Fitzpatrick
Propagandists seem to be in Second Life, especially in the areas meant for people to talk philosophy or ideas. And they do manipulate relationships and break up conversations moving them into “safe” areas — TV programs or news from mainstream news. Not all of trolling is due to just general mischievousness or else to meanness. Some of it seems to be done for the purpose of breaking alliances or depth conversations on certain kinds of issues, and for breaking up genuinely novel views being developed. Of course it is hard to detect people’s purposes but you can look at overall patterns of behaviour, vocabulary, etc. You can also tell when there is rigidity in the kinds of messages that are being conveyed that indicates propaganda as opposed to ignorance, lack of education or awareness of the world. The differences is that the people propounding rigid messages on one topic will show that they are actually capable of thinking on other topics.
Propagandizing foreign populations has generally been more legally acceptable. But it is difficult to see how government propaganda can be segregated from domestic consumption in the digital age. If American intelligence agencies are adopting the GCHQ’s tactics of “crafting messaging campaigns to go ‘viral’,” the legal issue is clear: A “viral” online propaganda campaign, by definition, is almost certain to influence its own citizens as well as those of other countries.
this is the legal totem pole, as far as I can tell
GCHQ/Five Guys: general purpose international laundry mat. legal arbitrage, black box, anything goes.
EO 12333: domestic headquarters of aforementioned laundry mat. tapping the traffic off shore.
702/Prism: gov- wink wink nod nod this is a warrant. googleplex- here’s everything we got on hippies and muslims.
215- that’s just metadata.
local fusion center- hippies and muslims BOLO
this is the legal totem pole, as far as I can tell
GCHQ/Five Guys: general purpose international laundry mat. legal arbitrage, black box, anything goes.
EO 12333: domestic headquarters of aforementioned laundry mat. tapping the traffic off shore.
702/Prism: gov- wink wink nod nod this is a warrant. googleplex- here’s everything we got on hippies and muslims.
215- that’s just metadata.
local fusion center- hippies and muslims BOLO
Social media seems a perfect tool(s) for propaganda and intelligence operations.
Did NSA and GCHQ help engineered these big tools such as facebook and twitter?
The dates of launch of these services coincide with dates of substantial use by secret intelligence agencies. Did NSA help design facebook/twitter/flicker/skype?
Darpa was involved in the intial funding of facebook.
The perfect greeting card for the occasion:
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m592/PresumptuousInsect/fakeinternet_zps17cd74c6.jpg
And the beat goes on!… I am sickened by the goings on and even more so by the sheer audacity of what one looks to as leadership. makes one want to crawl into a hole and weep.
This article vindicates Erdo?an and Maduro, dealing with similar circumstances. The r1b cia cheating at “democracy”.
The article says: “Royal Concierge,” contemplates how to “influence the hotel choice” of travelers.
They’ve used this against me to force me to move 1 block from my states biggest fusion center. I said when I moved there “it feels like they forced us to move here for some reason”. They then immediately drugged me, infinitely tortured me, and attempted to assassinate me. It was also a few blocks away from where I saw them with my own eyes murder someone’s teenage kid the year before. They simply said “it was his fault from running from us” Though in reality I saw them stalking him and setting him up the very day before he was murdered for being a targeted race.
Their assassination attempt of me was exactly what my friend described when he was openly murdered and the r1b investigators simply said “accident, case closed”. We’d love to discuss these circumstances of wide open genocide. He would have a few children by now so that’s a few people dead, someone else sleeping with his wife(70% likelihood an r1b), someone else with his job, car, house, and in a decade his grandchildren missing.
The United Nations Human Rights report on the U.S. last week which slammed U.S. abuses said specifically to set up a remedy whereby victims can achieve justice and these murderers can be prosecuted.
We’re still waiting for a number to call or an address to report these abuses to because nothing we have works. They arrest the whistleblower or force mental health treatment every time. How many people am I supposed to sit here and watch r1b’s torture to death, because my number’s astronomical.
The article says: “Anonymous sources that NBC didn’t characterize claimed at the time that GCHQ had not employed the technique.”
That statement is proof of their complicity because there’s no way any of them would know if it was used to begin with. They intentionally send the techniques, technology and ideology to the very ground level of unsupervised employees who’re their ethnicity(r1b et al western Europeans). If their spokespeople would tell the truth they would simply say “we have no way of knowing if it was actually used(though it was designed that way).”
Of course they’re not scared of prosecution because their the only ones there to prosecute anything, they have all our stolen technology to know if anyone is watching them.
As I’ve said before I would be one of the richest people in the world right now if these retarded ground level bigots weren’t handed technology and directives to destroy my company because of their racism. Instead I’m sitting here given brain damage, being openly tortured and desecrated 24/7.
gulag are we..
‘Such activities are restricted by law in many countries, including the U.S. In 2008, The New York Times’ David Barstow won a Pulitzer Prize for exposing a domestic effort coordinated by the Pentagon whereby retired U.S. generals posed as “independent analysts” employed by American television networks and cable news outlets as they secretly coordinated their messaging with the Pentagon.’ -gg
‘In the summer of 2005, the Bush administration confronted a fresh wave of criticism over Guantánamo Bay. The detention center had just been branded “the gulag of our times” by Amnesty International, there were new allegations of abuse from United Nations human rights experts and calls were mounting for its closure.’ -nyt
[aloha, harpie`]
Hi suave! Good to see you here. Would love to see harpie too. :-)
now we know why some countries put a tight leash of internet like China , Russia , Pakistan and control the content . These revelations will give the governments in these countries to restrict and control the internet even more and who can blame them.
Also an interesting question is that ” Are these Us based social media companies like facebook , twitter and other companies knowing or unknowingly help the government achieve their goal of spreading lies.
I would applaud any of the journalist who will stand up and ask this question in the next press conference with white house press secretary or any other government official, after they finish their statement , ” How long before we find out that whatever you just said was a lie and Bullshit”.
I don’t think that’s necessary. What all countries should do is expell USAID, the NED and such, and enact laws that make it illegal for foreign governments to meddle in local politics. It’s amazing that more countries don’t do that, and there are reasons why they don’t do that. (For one, they would immediately get trashed in the media, and denounced by human rights NGOs. That’s how the system works.) USAID operates in Venezuela, amazingly. It even operates in Russia, with some controls.
In November 2012 I saw an article about the fellow who must have taken over the Cuban CIA social media operation after, or at the time ZunZuneo “shut down”.
His CV:
> Daniel Gabriel has exceptional qualifications. He is a former operations assistant at CNN who later joined the CIA and completed six tours to Afghanistan and Iraq in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom.
> His biography describes him as a former CIA covert action officer who spent 10 years “countering violent-extremism, directing counter-insurgency operations, and developing and benchmarking counter-radicalization theory and methodology in the Islamic world.”
> According to his LinkedIn profile: Gabriel helped pioneer the use of social media in war-fighting and political conflict, and he was an early advocate for incorporating social media metrics into predictive intelligence and risk analysis. He is a subject matter expert and original researcher of interactive digital media strategies, social network analysis, international media research, text analytics, latent semantic indexing, strategic planning techniques, operational and organizational design, and complex system dynamics.
> One colleague raved: Keep your eyes glued to this guy – he rocks…”
http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/36745812378
We need to remember that much of what is being chronicled here is years old – and that begs the question:
If they were capable of this back then, what the are they capable of now?
It’s a continuum. COINTELPRO never effectively ended. The left died. FISA was and will remain ceremony.
I think we have all seen this in action sometimes when we have read closely on a political topic online. There will be a barrage of comments that use precisely the same bogus argument, and parts of the language will be strikingly similar across comments. Sometimes this barrage will appear at one site, giving the impression that the opinion expressed is widespread, but then at other sites you won’t see the argument made at all. This has only become apparent to me when I had the time to read about one issue at length at a number of different sites.
The disruption tactic (as opposed to the “truth” in numbers tactic above) is something that I think I see everywhere.
Wondering how they are using flickr, exactly.
In November 2012 I saw an article about the fellow who must have taken over the Cuban CIA social media operation and CV:
aniel Gabriel has exceptional qualifications. He is a former operations assistant at CNN who later joined the CIA and completed six tours to Afghanistan and Iraq in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom.
His biography describes him as a former CIA covert action officer who spent 10 years “countering violent-extremism, directing counter-insurgency operations, and developing and benchmarking counter-radicalization theory and methodology in the Islamic world.”
According to his LinkedIn profile: Gabriel helped pioneer the use of social media in war-fighting and political conflict, and he was an early advocate for incorporating social media metrics into predictive intelligence and risk analysis. He is a subject matter expert and original researcher of interactive digital media strategies, social network analysis, international media research, text analytics, latent semantic indexing, strategic planning techniques, operational and organizational design, and complex system dynamics.
One colleague raved: Keep your eyes glued to this guy – he rocks…”
http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/36745812378
I know this is OT, but since I didn’t see it posted about here, nor see coverage at The Guardian, thought I should post.
The judge dismissed the lawsuit brought by the family of the 3 Americans killed by drone strikes. I really, really hope TI will do an in-depth review/analysis of this. I hope this especially since this touches on an issue I know Jeremy is so concerned about.
I know the source might not be the best, but I wanted to post right away. I’m not sure if it will come as a true link as I don’t have my link cheat thing on hand…
here goes:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/04/04/299201799/federal-judge-dismisses-suit-challenging-drone-strikes-that-killed-americans
Unfortunately, Judge Collyer is most likely correct–based upon legal precedent. Ms. Wheeler stated within her blog today that she would comment on this decision later.
I think this is congress’ fault and they are the only persons who can reverse this trend, although only with preventing such assassinations in the future since it appears this case is essentially closed, except for a slim chance at civil remedies for the plaintiffs.
Thanks for the heads up about Marcy. I do have her blog bookmarked so I will be checking for her article on this. I just checked and it doesn’t seem to be up yet.
I find the ruling very, very troubling. Like a gift to the military and executive branch. Aren’t there supposed to be some checks on executive power? Yes, Congress should be doing something about this, but will they ever grow spines and really take on their proper role? Will they start remembering who they’re supposed to serve? Although I’m a natural optimist, things like this tend to make me feel more and more cynical or pessimistic.
Not being a lawyer myself, some clear explanations and thoughts on this would be good.
Good article, as always.
Dear IT folks – have mercy on my over-40 eyes. When I clicked on the links to view the new documents, they were so small there was no way to read them. When I tried zoom, – well most of each of the pages was swallowed up and there seemed to be no way to widen the window or any way to view a whole page in readable fashion.
Please try to fix this… thanks!
It should work fine and come up large and centered if you take the zoom to about half way, and then, you have to wait a few moments — depending on your speed — for it to load at that larger size. Then note that you’ll use the scroll that is beside the box, not the scroll at the outer edge of your full window page.
When you are in the document viewer, click the icon in the bottom left corner with the four arrows in order to “View Document in Fullscreen.” Once the document is in fullscreen mode click the link on the the top right titled “Original Document (PDF)” and you will download a PDF version.
Your eyes, internet connection, and sanity will be very thankful.
IT folks: A more direct PDF link would be helpful.
@kitt, @thelastnamechosen –
Thanks! I got it going correctly!
Dear Mr. Greenwald,
Your team is clearly providing a lens that improves our vision and points to our generational, and deeply problematic human condition.
Human affairs are logically a part of BEING (all that is), significant deeply, and clearly partial, yet fully dipped in BEING. As a part of BEING, human affairs on the planet have a continuing “fulcrum of development” to balance but also USE: Logically, we are merely part of BEING. So what is our relationship, then, with BEING?
The astonishing revelations your team reveals about human affairs in our times clearly shows an extremely vast, and very long standing worldview that is highly prejudicial toward a less partial, more fully BEING-EMBRACING worldview. Every single human on the planet needs must note their own relationship with Others, ergo BEING. Those “in charge” cannot provide any insights– they remain partial to their relationship with BEING, and ego equates world view with domination. No one can dominate BEING. Hence our dilemma, albeit a human dilemma. And while truly problematic and primordial, your work and the work of your team is now shedding insight into how our individual relationship with BEING is so very important.
Important because despite these prevailing partial world-views that hold sway, and real power, the inherent human condition remains not merely partial to BEING, but fully OF BEING without partiality. We are, each of us, more than partial without trying–but we can forget! So despite these puny human efforts to spy, we already win if we can know this, because our basic humanity and authentic relationship with BEING awaits– always and already available. Let the weak humans (leaders?) forget their BEING– BEING will await, patiently… as we humans continue to attempt to remember what we have, what we have forgotten, and what we come from: BEING!
If we notice, BEING is there, and abiding without interpreting may help. But the sad spy’s cannot do this.
In conclusion: Each of us is much, much more than any world-view can ever embrace. The INTERCEPT is a PART of reminding us of this FACT.
@Corky Goss-
Not sure I follow you all the way, but you do get at some profound thoughts. For sure, I think you have it right with:
Those “in charge” cannot provide any insights– they remain partial to their relationship with BEING, and ego equates world view with domination.
I also really like your conclusion: Each of us is much, much more than any world-view can ever embrace.
Oh, gee, my italics didn’t work (for the quotes). I thought I’d done them correctly, though.
Small grammatical problem in 4th paragraph from bottom. A “campaign” can’t have “its own citizens.”
https://twitter.com/tracetalbot/status/452266399692378112
A “viral” online propaganda campaign, by definition, is almost certain to influence its own citizens as well as those of other countries.
Seeing that the citizens are its object or target, a campaign can indeed have citizens that “belong” to it.
A good video interview and transcript of the USAID program from Democracy Now. Jay Carney, once again, demonstrates that he is very adept at lying.
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_agency
More on USAID
Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show
Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution.
http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/
And watch Carney back peddle here
US SECRETLY CREATED ‘CUBAN TWITTER’ TO STIR UNREST
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter-stir-unrest
Hillary wants more tax dollars to cause disruption in the world
Hillary Clinton ‘would have loved’ to spend 25% of federal budget on foreign aid
http://washingtonexaminer.com/hillary-clinton-would-have-loved-to-spend-25-of-federal-budget-on-foreign-aid/article/2546781
Thank you for the 3 links. The last 2 helped flesh-out this topic and it was good to see that Mr. Carney ‘backpedaled’ from his lies. Mr. Greenwald responded to the ‘Pando controversy’ within TI early last month.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/01/journalistic-independence/
My God does the US government HAVE to overthrow or dominate every other nation on earth? Clearly Washington desperately wants to be the one world government.
We don’t want to live under a global police state even if it does fly the American flag you assholes!!!!
What should really concern each one of us is not just what NSA and the rest of its cohorts are doing, but the real purpose behind their activities. I feel that there is definitely a preparation for war going on. In fact, war is the most profitable business, and the clever and initiated ones amongst us do not wait for wars to happen but create it for their profits.
This is why we should all be concerned, and not just because someone knows all our personal secrets.
true enough, but only because: warmongering is thoroughly independent of anyone’s personal secrets. the personal secrets are for all those OTHER profiteering graspings.
Truth is stranger than B movies.
Disturbing. Yet so not surprising. The pertinent question now is, “What will they not do?”
We really need a law banning the government from engaging in certain behavior like anonymously posting stuff on the internet (or using 3rd parties to do it for them) and discrediting individuals and organizations. There are state laws concerning slander. But the government knows that it is very difficult for a person to file a state slander lawsuit when the government is doing what they do by proxy (using 3rd parties to do their dirty work). We need a federal law regulating this. I think the intelligence agencies are emboldened by the fact that there aren’t any federal laws on the books telling them that they cannot do this.
There already is a law; the Thornberry and Smith Amendment (HR 4310, I believe).
https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/new-government-propaganda-bill-positive-step-first-amendment
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr4310/text
It’s provisions and efficacy, however, leave a bit of “wiggle room.”
So that law (in the aclu article) actually makes it worse – not better. It roles back previous restrictions and lets the government propagandize domestically under the guise that foreign propaganda could be consumed domestically via the internet. Of course that law was requiring the propaganda to identify the source. This article is talking about government agencies using 3rd parties to anonymously discredit individuals and organizations.
I do not know how to cut and paste from the documents.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1102569-2009-sigdev-conference.html#document/p1
2009 SIGDEV Conference
Third paragraph
Chris Inglis, Deputy Director NSA
and
Brian Ferren,Co-Chairman and Cheif Creative Officer, Applied Minds Inc.,
names are not redacted
but ******** Associate Deputy Director for SIGNEV and ******Chief Signals Survey and Analysis are. Why?
Also, what are the Extended Enterprise and the the Second Party mentioned in the second paragraph?
Among other things, because yesterday Glenn tweeted that folks should put a star by this tweet:
The question was, why were two names given but two names redacted.
Among other things your reply does not address the question. You refer to somebody I don’t know tweet, which you graciously give but that does nothing but hint and is hardly a definitive answer so I will ask again, why?
I do not tweet and believe it is dangerous ground. People have been known to run off the handle and call people ad hom names like neo-nazi and such like.
I think it is the playground that holds only 140 characters which is a small proportion of the worlds population.
Inglis is a top NSA official.
The usual m/o for name redactions is to redact the names of ordinary NSA employees, but to preserve the names of high officials. Inglis routinely testified before congress, in open session, and is a public figure and decision maker. IE a person who should be held publicly accountable, not a peon.
Among other things, because yesterday Glenn tweeted that folks should put a star by this tweet:
Ya know it looks like these people are using secret brains they’ve fooled themselves into believing they have.
Someone once said that the US is like the Lance Armstrong of countries, and as more Snowden revelations emerge, it’s increasingly clear they were right, with the caveat that we’re talking about a whole team of cheaters: The 5 eyes.
What would be great to have — and I appreciate that there are probably limits to the depth of coverage in the Snowden material — is specific examples of how these tactics has been used. For example, one can only begin to imagine what the US has been up to in Venezuela.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez#Death
The Vice President of Venezuela claimed Huge Chavez’s cancer and onslaught of illnesses, not to mention heart attack, were all US assassination attempts which ultimately worked. This could be something along the lines of poisoning, or perhaps a remote radiation type weapon? Who knows what kind of technology they have up their sleeves. The only thing that is for sure is it’s vastly superior to what the general public has and it’s “classified”.
I don’t know one way or the other if his sudden horrific health conditions were the result of foul play or not, but it certainly seems like nothing is off the table with the intel community doesn’t it? It’s not exactly a secret they’ve been trying for years to assassinate Fidel Castro, for instance. Scary stuff.
That sounds a little far fetched, but then again, infiltrating and weakening the RSA encryption standard also sounds far fetched. So who knows. What I do know is that intelligence types still fantasize about assassinating presidents like Chavez, Evo, Correa, etc. In the Stratfor leak there’s an email that casually mentions how in the old days they would’ve been planning Evo Morales’ and Chavez’ “helicopter accident.”
Nothing is too far-fetched when speaking of intelligence agencies. Remember the poisoning of Ukraine’s Viktor Yuschenko with dioxin? Or the guy who got whacked with a ricin-injecting umbrella tip?
These are spies. They get to be creative with their murders, and they get away with it.
“………What would be great to have — and I appreciate that there are probably limits to the depth of coverage in the Snowden material — is specific examples of how these tactics has been used. For example, one can only begin to imagine what the US has been up to in Venezuela……”
Or even what the Russians have been up to in Ukraine and Syria. Jesus, the sky is the limit.
Sure. But to continue with the analogy, if the US is Lance Armstrong, Russia is like the guy who came up in 10th place — basically irrelevant.
Of course it’s irrelevant, but that’s the point: he’s trying to derail your comments.
Don’t let him.
Doc
“…….Of course it’s irrelevant, but that’s the point: he’s trying to derail your comments…..”
Jose is not quite your typical Greenwald poster. He is smart enough to answer for himself……but I had no idea I was so underhanded.
“………Sure. But to continue with the analogy, if the US is Lance Armstrong, Russia is like the guy who came up in 10th place — basically irrelevant……”
Not if you are from Ukraine, Syria, Belarus (or even Russia). Besides, Venezuela is in the US “sphere of influence”. We should just skip the intelligence bullshit and annex what we want.
Yeah, like we did in Panama, Guatemala (twice), El Salvador, Chile, Brazil, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Hawaii, New Mexico, Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma,California, the Black Hills, and Iraq?
The “Russia Is Bad” argument: I LOVE it. What a joke.
Yeah, well the boys and girls sure can be something…. At this point one can only reverse the psychological targeting and when they are on the hot seat and their ears are burning because all of us are pointing out what freaking schmucks they are and the only way they can have a say is to fall from the sky like frothing nasty idiots then they start having an epiphany. At this point I am beginning to think that “Land of the Free” slogan is nothing more than some sort Evil Empire trademark.
I note Glen uses the term “Five Eyes” and lists the 5 countries that are members. Good. They comprise a consortium, or some might call it a conspiracy. If any member of a concortium/conspiracy commits a crime, and these countries all seem to be at it all the time, then each country must be held equally guilty when punishment time comes along. The same way the laws allow prosecution of members of a criminal culture (bikers, mafia, etc). Canada seems much under-reported in all this. Seems to skim along under the radar. It’s major agency CSEC is in a great advertising for staff mode right now.
The spacetime at the heart of a black hole is in a state of infinite curvature. These degenerate entities are popularly thought to indiscriminately vacuum up all surrounding material while preventing outsiders from examining anything that takes place beyond their event horizon.
I find the name of the program Glenn describes here somewhat apt (for once!), given the agency’s “We deserve it. You don’t” approach to secrecy.
‘Because American law bars the government from employing political propaganda domestically, that program was likely illegal, though no legal accountability was ever brought to bear (despite all sorts of calls for formal investigations). Barack Obama, a presidential candidate at the time, pronounced himself in a campaign press release “deeply disturbed” by the Pentagon program, which he said “sought to manipulate the public’s trust.”
Glenn – the Smith & Mundt Act was repealed last year, 2013 – http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_off_propaganda_ban_spreads_government_made_news_to_americans
It is now legal to propagandize the American public. Has been for well over a year…
That’s a mere formality, of course. They’d obviously do just fine with or without the legality of it.
These types of activities aren’t expressly covered in the Smith–Mundt Act.
Per Wikipedia:
Entities Covered by the [Smith–Mundt] Act
The following are administered by the Broadcasting Board of Governors, an agency of the US government.
Voice of America, a radio, TV and Internet network broadcasting worldwide, intended for reception outside of the US
Alhurra, satellite TV broadcasting to the Middle East
Radio Farda, a radio station targeted at Iran
Radio Free Asia, a radio network broadcasting in Asia
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, a radio network based in Europe and the Middle East
Radio Martí and TV Martí, a radio and TV network broadcasting in Cuba
Radio Sawa, a radio station broadcasting in the Middle East
No other department or agency of the US government is covered by the Smith–Mundt Act. The United States Agency for International Development and Millennium Challenge Corporation have said they are not sure whether they are covered.”
As noted, however, this certainly doesn’t mean that the NSA, et .al aren’t doing it under their purview.
Damn creepy stuff.
This could be a boon for Super 8, Motel 6, Red Roof Inn and all the John’s Lodging or Mary’s Lodging motels and hotels across the land. Government officials and diplomats should convince themselves that a shot at not having their On Demand TV viewing monitored and their choice of an Escort listed in their Top Secret File would be worth abstaining from the VIP treatment provided to them in spades at the upscale hotels.
Just kidding. They’re spoiled so rotten that even having their every move monitored won’t deter them from yearning for and taking every perk offered and available to them.
Given that this is a few years old, and the vast increase of collection and connectivity even since then, is it really fair to assume that most of the booking companies and chains (as well) are not just monitored directly via their J-Edgar-Hoovering? In this regard, would it matter if they ‘downgraded’, since most reservations nowadays are, almost without exception, made either electronically or telephonically? Definitely would streamline things for them; their original project seemed rather complicatedly slapped together…
Yes, that is prudent to think this. Until proven otherwise, of course.
One would hope that with the money we pay them that at least we’ll get our money’s worth, because they’ve “uncomplicated it” – and also expanded it – much more than ever before.
Otherwise – fire the bastards.
Exquisitely clear and confrontational. Thank you.
“Attention, comrades! We have glorious news for you. We have won the battle for production! Returns now completed of the output of all classes of consumption goods show that the standard of living has risen by no less than 20 per cent over the past year. All over Oceania this morning there were irrepressible spontaneous demonstrations when workers marched out of factories and offices and paraded through the streets with banners voicing their gratitude to Big Brother for the new, happy life which his wise leadership has bestowed upon us. “
“… discussions of how to exploit the internet, specifically social media, to surreptitiously disseminate viewpoints friendly to western interests and spread false or damaging information about targets …”
The state uses its intelligence agencies, the lap-dog media, Hollywood, grant feeding university personnel, bribery on unimaginable scale, and many other weapons in its vast array of tools to keep its dominance of the planet intact. The Snowden revelations along with other revelations coming to light just document what many people knew all along. (of course we were called conspiracy nuts, kooks, and cranks)
Good piece Glenn. Keep at it.
PS: a preview feature would be nice.
Nice to see you here, Mark. These are interesting and disturbing times we now live.
Thanks again Glenn!
Obama was deeply concerned;about his sports pools and where someone hid his butts.Sorry, first thing that sprang to mind.This WH is pretty piss poor,he almost makes the Shrub look like an idiot instead of a moron.
Elections (etc) are a continuous charade. When will we see that the govt is in no fit condition to judge itself HONESTLY, whether it calls itself this or that agency or committee or what-have-you? The protection from authoritarianism intended by the Constitution is rather obviously NOT CURRENTLY WORKING. Emma Goldman once said “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.” She also said “The most violent element in society is ignorance,” which is a comment deeper than it first appears.
Emma Goldman once said “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.”
I love Emma Goldman but I think it’s one of her weaker quotes. It seems obvious to me that voting changes things. Not necessarily for the better. But the shining history of implicit and explicit coercion of the voting process (the world over) indicates stakes are on the line, in principle.
The coercion over the voting process, in my view, is essential to the paradigm of the citizenry giving the state legitimacy. If people are just voting for people to hold office, I claim that there is probably only one policy in the state.
The US is a fine example of political parties dueling for power under the guise of free political elections when, in actuality, the US has only one foreign policy and one domestic policy. The election process is kabuki theater. South Africa is another plain example.
If the people were allowed to vote on wealth distribution, a perfectly democratic idea, the masses of poor people would either be shipped off to war and used as cannon fodder
or eradicated internally. But the current voting scam does not address anything of any importance to our oligarchs, so the theater continues.
I think that’s a sound observation. My use of “coercion” in this context was focused on the illegitimate aspects, but as you point out it’s the language of politics in general.
I think the problem with wealth distribution, or redistribution, is the frame itself is functionally redundant. All wealth is distributed. It’s a political reality, ie subject to change, that hides in plain sight as natural law. So to even begin the discussion requires unpacking the mother of all categorical errors. Slows the conversation a bit.
Thanks for this. And your last paragraph is so welcome — sometimes I can’t put into words the real import of something so esoteric.
a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step – Laozi
We need transparency across the board. It will never happen. Why hasn’t our president stepped up. . im moving to the pacific ocean
Unfortunately, our President has stepped back, not up. He is not merely allowing this to go on, but is clearly encouraging it. What is the right word for such a person – authoritarian?
Yes. Authoritarian. Or establishmentarian. Another word for it is ‘weak.’
I prefer Budding Fascist.
He shows promising tendencies. To test your hypothesis, let’s examine how Fascism was introduced to Germany; according to one account:
Uh, oh… Godwin’s law…how silly to suggest any superficial similarities with what is happening in the US. I have just disqualified myself from ever being taken seriously again.
I have just disqualified myself from ever being taken seriously again.
Happens to the best of us. ;-}
Speaking of gradual habitation, Obama just quietly signed a bill outlawing public funding for presidential campaigns. Nice chaser for the recent SCOTUS decision, eh? I fucking hate that guy.
<blockquote<"Obama just quietly signed a bill outlawing public funding for presidential campaigns."
To be clear: Obama did not sign a bill outlawing public funding for presidential campaigns, per se; what he did was take the paltry $18 million or so that was to go towards a grant to support each party’s convention in 2012, and instead agreed with Republicans to use the money to fund national research into childhood diseases instead.
That it was mislabeled as the “Gabriella Miller Kids First Research Act” is open to debate…actually no, it was fucked up – but that the public finance option was already broken long ago ($18million/year, really?) is a given as well.
The long and the short of this latest news: the Citizens United and the McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission cases, while ass-backwards in an egalitarian “one person, one vote” world which we’ve all been told we live in here – actually opens the door to substantive legislative change in public finance reform – but only if the public makes it so…via electing and effectively managing those they elect…and those they, in turn, place on the Supreme Court.
Oh?
“Obama signs ban on public funding of presidential campaigns into law”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/04/obama-act-public-funding-signs-aw
“A ban on public funding of presidential conventions was quietly signed into law by Barack Obama on Thursday in a move that could further increase the dependency of US political parties on wealthy donors.
A day after the supreme court removed aggregate limits on how much wealthy individuals can spend supporting candidates, the White House agreed to enact legislation dismantling what was left of an alternative public financing model set up after the Watergate scandal.”
”
Presumptuous Insect, the article you cite is one of those that I used to make the my conclusion – which is not to say that discontinuing what little public funding for presidential elections left did not occur, per se, but that the impact it has on the electoral process in reality is minor- and that the $18 million or so dollars will actually be better spent on national research into childhood diseases instead.
That a better solution to get big money out of elections at the local, state, and national levels is a given, because it completely corrupts the process and leaves the average citizen without an effective voice in our democracy.
In other words, the current public funding model wasn’t working anyway – and a completely new one is needed to address the egregiously unbalanced way in which our elections are funded.
Because he is an authoritarian war criminal who sucks up to, and promotes power instead of reining it in? That might be part of it : )
Or because, as Glen Ford at Black Agenda Report says (paraphrase): “Obama is the more effective evil” Works for me.
A more cynical use by the Top Oligarchs of the underclass black man they installed as ‘First Black Prez’ could not be devised.
All Americans, and blacks in particular, should be incensed by the treachery of this racism parading as liberation from racism.
Even if legal, this just seems so petty, low, and under-handed…. cheating is the word that comes to mind. If you can’t operate above board, then your system might be a tad corrupt… I will go further and suggest that the system is almost completely corrupt. What a bunch of cowards these people are. They try to sow fear in the public, and it must actually seep into their pores and poison their sense of decency and fairness (ha!) to make them this chickenshit.
It’s also a subversion of the principle of self-determination, and a highly undemocratic practice. This sort of political interference and manipulation is done to one degree or another in any country where USAID and the NED operate, i.e. mostly countries that elect representatives.
Big Brother is there to protect you with a nicer version of the truth. Please cooperate.
Nicer is in the beholder of the “eye”. Cooperation is considered optional. Can we even trust the internet now?? I don’t think so. No one knows where or when or how these miscreants will invade.