Britain’s electronic surveillance agency, Government Communications Headquarters, has long presented its collaboration with the National Security Agency’s massive electronic spying efforts as proportionate, carefully monitored, and well within the bounds of privacy laws. But according to a top-secret document in the archive of material provided to The Intercept by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, GCHQ secretly coveted the NSA’s vast troves of private communications and sought “unsupervised access” to its data as recently as last year – essentially begging to feast at the NSA’s table while insisting that it only nibbles on the occasional crumb.
The document, dated April 2013, reveals that GCHQ requested broad new authority to tap into data collected under a law that authorizes a variety of controversial NSA surveillance initiatives, including the PRISM program.
PRISM is a system used by the NSA and the FBI to obtain the content of personal emails, chats, photos, videos, and other data processed by nine of the world’s largest internet companies, including Google, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, and Skype. The arrangement GCHQ proposed would also have provided the British agency with greater access to millions of international phone calls and emails that the NSA siphons directly from phone networks and the internet.
The Snowden files do not indicate whether NSA granted GCHQ’s request, but they do show that the NSA was “supportive” of the idea, and that GCHQ was permitted extensive access to PRISM during the London Olympics in 2012. The request for the broad access was communicated at “leadership” level, according to the documents. Neither agency would comment on the proposed arrangement or whether it was approved.
Last June, in the wake of the Guardian‘s PRISM disclosures, British Foreign Secretary William Hague issued a lengthy statement declaring that “the arrangements for oversight and the general framework for exchanging information with the United States are the same as under previous governments.” Warrants to intercept the communications of any individual in the United Kingdom, the statement read, must be personally signed by a cabinet secretary.
Likewise, the British Intelligence and Security Committee reported in July that, after reviewing “GCHQ’s access to the content of communications, the legal framework which governs that access, and the arrangements GCHQ has with its overseas counterparts for sharing such information,” the spy agency’s collaboration with the NSA was within the bounds of British law.
But the broader access secretly sought by GCHQ only months earlier appears to have been unprecedented – and would have placed fewer restrictions on how the NSA’s surveillance data is obtained and handled by British spies.
In response to the revelation, British member of Parliament Julian Huppert has accused government officials of issuing statements intended to “deliberately mislead” about GCHQ’s surveillance programs and called for an overhaul of the current system of oversight.
Eric King, head of research at London-based human rights group Privacy International, said that the latest disclosure raised “serious concerns” about whether GCHQ has pushed for the ability to sift through data collected by the NSA in a bid to circumvent British laws restricting the scope of its surveillance.
“GCHQ’s continued insistence that it is following the law becomes less credible with every revelation,” King told The Intercept, adding that he believed the agency was “stretching its legal authorities with help from international partners.”

GCHQ’s request is outlined in an NSA memo marked “top secret” and “noforn” – agency jargon for “no foreigners.”
It was prepared last year for Gen. Keith Alexander, then director of the NSA, in advance of a visit by Sir Iain Lobban, chief of GCHQ. Lobban was scheduled to attend a dinner at Alexander’s home on April 30, 2013. The following day, the two spy chiefs were to have a “one-on-one discussion,” and Lobban was to be given a tour of NSA headquarters in Fort Meade, Maryland, complete with demonstrations of the agency’s operations.
The memo includes talking points for Alexander on issues related to Syria and Iran, and also warns that GCHQ is being “challenged with their activities and operations being subject to increased scrutiny and oversight from their government (and public).” Alexander was told that Lobban might ask about the safeguards in place to prevent any data that GCHQ shared with the NSA from being handed to others, such as Israel, who might use it in “lethal operations.”
Under the heading “key topic areas,” the document notes that gaining “unsupervised access” to data collected by the NSA under section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act “remains on GCHQ’s wish list and is something its leadership still desires.”
Section 702 of FISA grants the NSA wide latitude to collect the email and phone communications of “persons reasonably believed to be located outside the United States.” It authorizes PRISM and several other programs – with codenames such as BLARNEY and STORMBREW – that covertly mine communications directly from phone lines and internet cables.
The memo adds: “NSA and SID [Signals Intelligence Directorate] leadership are well aware of GCHQ’s request for this data, and the steps necessary for approval. NSA leadership could be asked whether we’re still supportive of this initiative.”

GCHQ was previously reported to have had some level of access to PRISM since at least June 2010, generating 197 intelligence reports from the data in 2012. However, the British agency appears to have been unsatisfied with limits placed on its use of the system.
While GCHQ’s ultimate aim was to gain “unsupervised” access to the NSA’s FISA databases, as of April 2013 it had already successfully lobbied for increased access to the trove “supervised” by the NSA. The newly disclosed Snowden document indicates that GCHQ was close to concluding a deal to gain the supervised access to communications collected under FISA as part of a program called “Triage 2.0.” This deal, under unspecified conditions imposed by the NSA, was “awaiting signature” from the British agency in April 2013, according to the document.
In addition, the top-secret memo notes that the NSA had separately agreed with GCHQ to share data on a broader “unsupervised” basis as part of a program called Olympic Option.
Olympic Option was a surveillance program operated during the London Olympics in 2012, under which at least 100 GCHQ operatives were given access to the PRISM system “throughout the Olympic timeframe,” ostensibly to identify potential terror threats. In a single six-day period in May 2012, according to a top-secret PowerPoint slide, GCHQ received 11,431 “cuts of traffic” from communications intercepted using PRISM. (“Cuts” is a term used by the NSA to describe extracts of conversations that it collects.) The memo prepared for Alexander describes the British request for unsupervised access to FISA 702 data as “in a manner similar to Olympics Option [sic].”
The data sharing between the agencies during the Olympics, though, was not isolated to PRISM. It also encompassed large volumes of metadata – such as the “to” and “from” details from an email but not the content of the message itself – as part of a more expansive Olympics surveillance effort. The NSA was funneling troves of intercepted data to GCHQ from a system called GHOSTMACHINE, a massive cloud database used by the NSA to analyze metadata and store, according to one document in the Snowden archive, “100s of billions of entries.”

The NSA declined to answer a series of questions from The Intercept about its surveillance cooperation with GCHQ or comment on whether the arrangement has involved sharing information on Americans’ communications.
In a statement, NSA spokeswoman Vanee Vines said that the agency is legally barred from sharing intelligence collected under PRISM and similar programs “unless the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has first approved minimization procedures, which must comply with the Fourth Amendment and limit the collection, retention and dissemination of information about U.S. persons.” Vines added that, in response to a “genuine threat of terrorist attack” surrounding the 2012 Olympics, the U.S.intelligence community “took steps authorized by law and consistent with the Constitution to protect Americans and citizens of other countries.”
Similarly, GCHQ refused to answer any questions on the record about the documents. The agency issued its boilerplate response to inquiries, insisting that its work “is carried out in accordance with a strict legal and policy framework, which ensures that our activities are authorised, necessary and proportionate, and that there is rigorous oversight.”
Earlier this month, a report by the U.K. government’s communications interception commissioner deemed GCHQ’s arrangements with the NSA to have been within the law and said that the agency was not engaged in “indiscriminate random mass intrusion.”
But the newly revealed documents raise questions about the full extent of the clandestine cooperation – key details about which appear to have been withheld from lawmakers.
Huppert, the member of Parliament, served on a committee that reviewed – and recommended against – a push from the British government for more powers to access private data before the Snowden materials became public last year.
At no point during that process, Huppert says, did GCHQ disclose the extent of its access to PRISM and other then-secret NSA programs. Nor did it indicate that it was seeking wider access to NSA data – even during closed sessions held to allow security officials to discuss sensitive information. Huppert says these facts were relevant to the review and could have had a bearing on its outcome.
“It is now obvious that they were trying to deliberately mislead the committee,” Huppert told The Intercept. “They very clearly did not give us all the information that we needed.”
Decrying the process as a “good example of how governments should not behave,” the Liberal Democrat parliamentarian is calling for significant reform of the U.K.’s current surveillance regime.
“I want to see much greater clarity on how we have oversight, because it is currently not fit for purpose,” he says. “We need much more transparency about what is happening. And we need to revise our laws, because our laws clearly have too many loopholes in them.”
———
Documents published with this article:


this may sound sick, but the GCHQ simply is brown-nosing…oh can we play around in your data?
sick people
Valuable info. Lucky me I found your web site accidentally, and I am surprised why this twist of fate did not took place earlier! I bookmarked it.
Snowden leaks look like a counterintelligence operation http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/25/364073/snowden-leaks-a-counterintelligence-op/
The British naturally conclude that if Israel gets EVERYTHING automatically which the NSA collects en masse, then why shouldn’t the UK be entitled to the same consideration. London forgets that it is not “God’s Chosen People” in D.C.
GOD SAVE CHRISTMAS
http://digwithin.net/2014/01/01/snowden/
Just like the classic cartoon with the Chihuahua pestering the Bull Dog, the British want to be real fascist too.
“..when wealth extends to the point where one possesses far more than one can actually use, part of the population will be thrust into servitude.” Timothy Brennan
A government with as good of security as Microsoft, and Internet Explorer, as an example, and we have nothing better…or as good….. is open to invasion by all!
THis comment is not related to the article, I just noticed something. Why does the intercept have google-analytics scripts in their website? A website dedicated to releasing anti-tracking/spying documents has embedded google tracking code to find what kind of people its own users are
Excellent observation.
Google Analytics only shows up if you turn on Javascript (you do have a way to easily turn off javascript and cookies, right?).
The purpose is for advertising, as The Intercept as entered into an advertising agreement with the NSA…I mean Google so that the maximum profit can be garnered. Ironically, Google Analytics is likely a tool used by the NSA to characterize OUR browsing so that they can target us with specific tools; just as Google analyzes our browsing habits to create propaganda specific to our deficiencies in towing the party line…I mean specific to our supposed shopping habits (funny, since I don’t buy anything new if I can help it.)
If you were to ask me, I would suggest that this site isn’t about releasing documents – it hasn’t produced any stories of any significance in over a month now – rather, that this site is just another tool for the NSA to identify its biggest enemies. Perhaps that’s why I’ve told the NSA to hire me instead of continuing to spy on me. I believe I am their greatest single enemy because I believe I understand their culture, their mindset. And in understanding that mindset, I can better manage it.
I also understand that joining and managing the NSA would be the best way to dismantle the surveillance machine that is a very real threat to the security of the nation.
“I also understand that joining and managing the NSA would be the best way to dismantle the surveillance machine that is a very real threat to the security of the nation.”
The joining part Mr. Snowden did; the dismantling thereof he precipitated as well. Thinking that it can be done from the inside is, at the very least, a highly unlikely proposition.
Just as we mantled them, so must we dismantle them. It’s our duty as citizens. If we don’t do it, no one else will.
““The essence of oligarchical rule is not father-to-son inheritance, but the persistence of a certain world-view and a certain way of life … A ruling group is a ruling group so long as it can nominate its successors … Who wields power is not important, provided that the hierarchical structure remains always the same.”
– George Orwell
Best regards, Sillyputty
If NSA, I mean if Google hires you, be sure to take a northward glance from one of the terraces of their NYC headquarters…you have a good view of the building I live in, less than 1/2 mile uptown..
That’s right, I noticed it because I have NoScript installed. I don’t allow third party cookies.
They really shouldn’t be a part of google analytics. Just goes to show how rotten things have become when a website such as this has to be part of google analytics to become economically viable. If they didn’t have google analytics, I would disable ad-blocker on this site. I’d like to support this site and click on a non-personalised ad every so often, since it’s hooked up to google surveilance, I definitely wont. Thanks for the great articles though
The pretty diagram in the article indicates something called the “GM analytic engine”, which is placed inside the “Ghost Machine”. Don’t tell me you silly Brits are relying on General Motors to help you – your windbags will fail and your government will crash!
And don’t say you didn’t get the service bulletins…
We need more of this, and less of the above dribble.
“That such repressive measures come from British political culture is to be expected. The political elite of that country cling desperately to 17th century feudal traditions. Grown adults who have been elected or appointed to nothing run around with a straight face insisting that they be called “Lord” and “Baroness” and other grandiose hereditary titles of the landed gentry. They bow and curtsey to a “Queen”, who lives in a “palace”, and they call her sons “Prince”. They embrace a wide range of conceits and rituals of a long-ago collapsed empire. The wig-wearing presiding judge who issued this morning’s ruling equating journalism with terrorism is addressed as “Lord Justice Laws”, best known for previously approving the use of evidence to detain people that had been derived from torture at Guantanamo (he can be seen here).
None of this behavior bears any relationship to actual reality: it’s as though the elite political class of an entire nation somehow got stuck in an adolescent medieval fantasy game. “
Video of Munk debate here:
http://new.livestream.com/Munk-Debates/events/2939050
Con: (.. ‘Conned’)
“It is abundantly clear that a total review of all intelligence programs is necessary so that members of the senate intelligence committee are fully informed as to what is actually being carried out by the intelligence community”
Diane Feinstein
Awesome debate. What Dershowitz shows and Greenwald rebuts explicitly and convincingly is the idea that this mass surveillance isn’t personal (between the two of them), but that it’s personal in that it affects everyone.
Straw Man Down.
Well done, and thank you.
Regards, Sillyputty
Hayden and Dershowitz taking a beating in the Munk Debates poll:
http://poll.munkdebates.com/
The Munk Debate page that was up here @ TI for awhile has disappeared.
Nemo – I’m on it as of 4:06 Pacific time…
Thanks. For some reason, even today, when I want to view the Munk video page I must completely close TI and then reopen the website. Reloading the site does not work to get that page.
I noted on many occasions at several talks preceding this event that Mr. Hayden invoked “God” as an integral part of his/NSA’s determination in justifying the extent of the surveillance state model he supports.
One wonders how much of “God’s” support will factor into the upcoming discussion.
Why we do things as a rational society is, after all, the initial basis for forming the policies and procedures to address our mutually held concerns.
Disney and the NSA
Shutter bug time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZWEs3VStQ#t=86
munkdebates.com/live #munkdebate
If TI’s stream does come in right,
this gives us another chance.
Or, maybe, it’s the same?
Anyway, this gives us an opportunity to vote before
and during the debate.”a rolling poll’+ ‘after-party’+@munkdebate.
Maybe, TI has the same thing.But, I’m not taking any chances…
Anybody interested in live tweeting the debate? My digits are ready to go!
I think Joe — @024601 — will be there.
Hashtag: #MonkDebate
Dammit! I mean:
#MunkDebate
LOL. Having bowel troubles?
Dammit! I mean, vowel. ;-}
I no doubt will have er, troubles after the massive snackage I collected for the evening….
Hopefully you left the humble pie on the shelf for Mssrs. Douchewitz and Hey,then. They’re going to need fortification afterward methinks. ;-}
Don’t think Joe was planning on being there, new baby, etc. But I do know that Bill Owen had plans to attend. I came within inches of going when a little birdie tracked down a ticket, but the airfare was sorta prohibitive. :-s
Dershowitz sets up a pre-debate straw residence for Greenwald in order to have something to huff and puff against:
Mr. Hayden, not to be outdone by his co-straw constructionist, has decided to lump us into the age range of “8 and up”, likening his agency’s antics to the game of Clue via poorly written film noir:
As if the NSA ever gives up a scene wittingly. Then he sets up his own little straw confection:
“Why is everyone so surprised?” has for quite some time been recognized as the weak, specious rejoinder of desperate interlocutors everywhere. I wasn’t “surprised” in the least to see that Greenwald, in his own preparatory statement, flamed the above right out of the starting gate:
This debate is going to be very interesting.
I can imagine two people sitting together in a tent in Yemen, sending e-mails back and forth rather than simply talking to each other. Once in while, one will ask, “did you get the e-mail I sent you?” The other will reply, “still waiting, there must be a bottleneck in California again. Please don’t encrypt it next time or include multiple links, as that seems to slow down the transmission for some reason”.
The authoritarian argument on the side of the unrestricted NSA always seems to end up “Trust the establishment, we’ll oversee all this, honestly we will.” The obvious rejoinder is “Well, we don’t trust the establishment, so now what?” As you say, very interesting.
Those bastards are running scared, Pedinska!
Monk-wannabe Number 2:
http://munkdebates.com/MediaStorage/Debates/StateSurveillance/Docs/Hayden-Summary.pdf
I see the Gawdz of Reply Cohoerence need placating as well. :-s
Monk-wannabe Number 3, Il Douche (Sorry Benito, it was just sitting there waiting to be picked up):
http://munkdebates.com/MediaStorage/Debates/StateSurveillance/Docs/Dershowitz-Summary.pdf
Cohoerence –> Coherence.
You see how they are (the Gawdz of Cohornence, I mean…)???
And, now that we’ve got the reply bidness straightened out,
Monk-wannabe Number 4:
http://munkdebates.com/MediaStorage/Debates/StateSurveillance/Docs/Ohanian-Summary.pdf
Enjoy your appetizers, but please try not to leave too many crumbs on the carpet.
As Cindy noted below:
Now Greenwald is going to debate a bunch of fucking Canadian MONKS? This is ridiculous. Get back to the NSA stories, you bastards!
The Monk [sic] Debating Society now has pre-debate commentaries now available from the four Monk-wannabes. The links will be distributed across four comments in order to placate the Gawdz of Multiple Links.
Monk-wannabe Number 1:
http://munkdebates.com/MediaStorage/Debates/StateSurveillance/Docs/Greenwald-Summary.pdf
Thank you for those links, but the decisions on this subject have already been made. I was therefore puzzled about the utility of the debate. Then I realized it was being held in Canada – the audience will understand the issues, but has no actual influence. So it is the perfect venue to test out unconventional ideas, in privacy if you will, before they are rolled out to the general public.
Obama Administration, Despite Pledges, Still Resists Release of Secret Legal Opinions on Surveillance.
Excerpt: “Still, more significantly, there is the fact that this secret surveillance court operates within the executive branch. Any proposed reform would enable it to continue to argue and play a key role in surveillance policy. It would continue to decide constitutional issues, even though it is not a part of the traditional structure of the judicial branch. So, that means the executive branch would be able to continue to exercise a significant level of control over what the public knows about how this secret court is interpreting laws and the Constitution.”
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/05/02/obama-administration-despite-pledges-still-fights-release-of-secret-legal-opinions-on-surveillance/
Thanks for the link @Cindy. I love the part where Clapper coughs up this hairball, “…we need to engage in the kind of national conversation that free societies have – to correct misunderstandings that lead to false allegations in the media and to counter misperceptions that the IC work force is violating civil liberties. So we made the painful choice to declassify critical documents in the interest of being more transparent…”
Back on September 10, 2013 when the NSA first released their trove Kevin wrote, “Alex Abdo, a staff attorney with the ACLU’s National Security Project, reacted, “These documents show that the NSA repeatedly violated court-imposed limits on its surveillance powers, and they confirm that the agency simply cannot be trusted with such sweeping authority” and “Obama and the heads of intelligence agencies do not want to have to address corruption because it interrupts the continuity of government or it undermines the operations of an ever-expanding Surveillance State. Therefore, the Obama administration must manage expectations on transparency and openness because they know there is only so much that can be permitted before the true extent of corruption in government is revealed. “
Fast forward to his May 1 article where he also reports, “Indeed, the Associated Press found, when conducting its annual review, that the “government more than ever censored materials it turned over or fully denied access to them, in 244,675 cases or 36 percent of all requests. On 196,034 other occasions, the government said it couldn’t find records, a person refused to pay for copies or the government determined the request to be unreasonable or improper.” The media organization concluded the “government’s efforts to be more open about its activities last year were their worst since President Barack Obama took office.” (All Dissenter articles found on the same site as referenced by @Cindy above but links are omitted)
For as much as Obama is bastardizing the Constitution behind closed doors I find the conspiracy of silence inside and among both parties and in all three branches of the government is treasonous and dangerous as they walk society blindly towards the spiral of silence.
Overcoming the silence
The theory explains a vocal minority (the complement of the silent majority) by stating that people who are highly educated, or who have greater affluence, and the few other cavalier individuals who do not fear isolation, are likely to speak out regardless of public opinion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_of_silence_(expression)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silence
I found this article to be very insightful, very well informed.
http://atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-020514.html
It is an essay about global conflict, the West, and the inevitability of global conflict. I found it well written, well researched, and very well thought out. It does lack an overall explanation; but that is hardly within the scope. Try an experiment: try to imagine that all that is going on is because of addiction to power by ego which essentially controls the minds of those who rule this planet, people who want nothing else other than to be better. See if it doesn’t explain everything.
More importantly though is to ask yourself, what if what this article says is true. Are we really moving towards another global conflict, and, as this article also points out; a conflict which is for the first time, truly global, and thus has ever chance of being the downfall of modern civilization, perhaps even humanity itself – especially given the global nuclear arsenals. And this is where the notion of ego comes into play. If ego is in control and not men; then use of nuclear weapons is inevitable.
You know my views on the subject, and I still have openings on my ship for three others who share those views. I have offered up what I believe are solutions (with one final video coming…had another epiphany-while-stoned this morning), have researched things to the best of my ability, and now must concentrate on finding help so I can survive and finally enjoy life (which I got a taste of yesterday- 8 hours worth, first time in many years). I leave it to you: are we edging towards the end of humanity, and is it because of nothing more than ego? And if so, what can we do about it. Hint: there is a solution. Find it.
Once again, good luck to you.
Also, if you do actually know the cure for human egotism, please just say what it is, as it would indeed be one of the most helpful things I can imagine. I couldn’t take more than a couple of your shows, so kindly just cough it up in short form right here.
Ego rules this planet for one simple reason – the reason you have so kindly (and by sheer coincidence I assure you), demostrated here: pure laziness.
Don’t get me wrong, laziness is good…if mature and well reasoned. I’m lazy myself; but that translates differently – to perfectionism. Why do something half-assed twice or more when you can take your time and do it right once…and have something to be proud of – instead of showing off how fast you did it, for example…or how easily it was packaged so you didn’t actually have to do the work of developing your mind, your paradigm, and your own opinion of the world.
The solution, Cindy, is to learn to understand what ego is, and to control it. I cannot convert anyone. I cannot do the work for you. You must do the work yourself. Because what’s wrong with the world isn’t something we can blame on anyone. It is our own responsibility.
But, if you want a shortcut to figuring all this out, you have the benefit of my thought process which I documented on video, largely, and which you can follow – pitfalls, mistakes, revelations, epiphanies, stupid moments, and awakenings – all for you to get out of it what you seek. And if it is a solution to global problems through personal awakening, you’ll fnd it. But if it is an avenue for you to express your ego, that you will find as well.
Sorry to say this, but I do ask for a little faith. But faith in me, faith in your potential as a human being; which I contend I have gone further towards achieving. I offer my videos as my evidence. I cannot edit them down into a neat package – for one because as I mention in the videos, I don’t have the help necessary to do so.
Perhaps you could volunteer Cindy, to be that one person who appoints yourself to understand why I believe what I do, so that you can be a judge for others. No one is brave enough to watch my show all the way through – not even me to be honest. Let your ego drive you to do that if that’s what it takes.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply (and the offer – but I have too many creative projects ongoing). In point of fact I’m Zen-Buddhist and not really that into ‘controlling’ anything, even ego – although you and I obviously both agree the ego is central to all conflict. I sincerely wish you the best and hope you develop ever more clear ways of getting your feelings and insights across without distortion. I definitely like the idea of ‘mature and well reasoned laziness.’
Cindy, thanks for the conscientious postings.
“Also, if you do actually know the cure for human egotism, please just say what it is, as it would indeed be one of the most helpful things I can imagine.”
—————–
Mystical/Spiritual paths, such as many forms of Sufi orders, Hinduism and Buddhism, have developed an whole array of techniques, aka, spiritual excercises, along with complete maps of the human self and a whole spectrum of its qualities, from the lowers to the highest, to train the self to move away from the lowest qualities, such as selfishness, and control the ego.
They also groom the self to use the power of love, instead of love of power and control.
See the writings of SEYYED Hossein Nasr, Shaykh Fadhlalla Haeri, Shaykh Kabir Helminski, and about the many Sufi Orders.
But those who are managing our affairs are part of systems that are not geared towards shedding desires, power and control.
Imagine someone trying to move up the ladder in a political system with the display of just one high quality of the self: Truth!
They won’t get much far.
To the Sufis, the solution is spiritual awakening, individually as well as collectively, for it’s the inner heart that is at the core of human action.
But, usually, this happens after much human suffering.
Sufi,
Thank you for interjecting another perspective. It is definitely appreciated.
I have found I have issue with all forms of teaching, even Buddhism which, for almost a year, I believed was a legitimate teaching.
What I have found is that teachings are ego-based. They direct people, rather than helping them understand, and I believe that lies in the ignorance of those who originate the teachings of the nature of human nature.
What I have found in my study and research, is that understanding the nature of humanity, while a difficult task to carry out, is quite easy. We were born into a world alone and existed as egos only, struggling every day to survive. We later learned empathy after witnessing the cooperation of pack animals, and developed empathy as means of communication lacking verbal communication.
I don’t believe that outside teachers and disciplines can themselves provide answers, because I believe such teachings take too much for granted about the student. It is, once again, laziness which causes us to document teachings and attempt to pass on teachings through writing and lecture; rather than hands-on assistance in the process of understanding.
The value I find in such teachings is if they are taken strictly in context as the writings of someone who individually discovered something they felt was worth teaching. Rather than considering such writing as teaching, I find them best as insight into someone else’s thinking. It relieves me of the burden of having to believe of disbelieve the writer(s) and allows me to consider their thoughts as just that – their thoughts. I believe it is a mistake to take anything of that sort for granted as correct. I believe such writings are best treated as a guide to that person’s thoughts, which are valuable not as a system of beliefs, but as the beliefs of an individual or system.
However; that having been said, when the teachings of independent searchers coincides; there is always cause for paying careful attention. You mention the notion of a spiritual awakening. I have long believed that such is necessary, and the revelations I had this morning confirm that. I can’t wait to get that video up and hope it is in a form that is suitable for upload as-is. I started to imagine how things could be if we all shared our thoughts via a global video communications network and realized that it may in fact lead to a significant event in human history. The video explains it better than I can here, but suffice it to say, the idea of universal enlightenment is one I definitely agree is a necessary step if mankind is to take the next step forward in its evolution, to mature as a species, and, I believe, to join the community of other awakened species throughout the universe – perhaps even beyond.
I’ll have the video up this evening if all goes well.
In many forms of Sufism, the teachers merely help their students discover the inner light that is already within them.
And yes, their writings are based on their own inner discoveries.
Look up Ibn Arabi.
Appreciated. I’m familiar with Kabir and Rumi, in translated form, and have received considerable solace and inspiration from some of their poetry.
I too have been suggesting that we’re near the end…solutions? Love has to be a major part of the equation-try to get through the first 3 pages + footnotes…you should be at least marginally intrigued–> http://1drv.ms/1i0v8cH
Now Greenwald is going to debate a bunch of fucking Canadian MONKS? This is ridiculous. Get back to the NSA stories, you bastards!
Now THAT’S funny!
Nicely done.
Via twitter:
Folks discussed this downthread, thought it might be a good time to bring it a bit further up in the pile.
Glenn Greenwald on politeness, privacy and the surveillance state
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/munk-debates/munk-debate-glenn-greenwald/article18380180/
On the difficulty of maintaining courtesy when involved in discussions with monsters:
On how crazy his life has gotten:
On the importance of privacy:
And, again, on what life for him has become:
>”Glenn Greenwald on politeness …”
Considering Mr. Greenwald is talking about Gen. Hayden and the ‘whirlin’ Dersh thats … the Best Headline of The Day, Pedinska! (I shit you not.)
*after reading the ‘Munk’ participants respective positions summaries (from wince Mr. Greenwald’s politeness arises.) , I do hope they allow for some audience feedback… now and then.
aside ~ judging from the summary positions, I don’t think it will go well for the General and The Dersh!
I can’t wait for the debate tonight! I had to watch this again in anticipation :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FkhQ1EN5Ec
(at around 19:50)
By the way Glenn, now that my brain has spit out something I can work with (or rather, I can make sense of what my brain is trying to tell me): the reason for my criticism, concern, anxiety, anger, and impatience is because of this fact:
The delay in reporting, whether intentionally planned as such or not, is a technique that is used in propaganda to manipulate public opinion on a grand scale through a patterned and planned controlling of availability and freshness of information.
In other words, your reporting on minor elements, your failure to keep the NSA story fresh, has killed the story in the mind of most readers globally. This has all the signs of being swept under the rug; whether or not you were a part of the planning, you were a part of the process.
I need not remind the readers of this site that journalists have editors, and editors know how to run a paper, and you run a paper (or any news outlet for that matter) by running hot and fresh stories,and if there is a continuing story, that you have to keep it hot and fresh. People have short memories (thanks to the media giving us short memories) and editors ALL know this.
Either you have been caught up in a propaganda campaign through enticements such as the award and the magazine rollout and whatnot; or this whole thing is just one really incredibly bizarre and unplanned coincidence that could never happen if anyone had any level of competence who was involved in any stage or aspect of the reporting of the NSA documents, or you are involved in the planning and execution of a larger campaign to squash the story, at least enough to allow the efforts of the US Government to carry out its larger aim of inciting and starting a global conflict (or whatever their actual plan is…all I know is that what they are doing is leading to global conflict.)
So, we need our governments to either admit they are planning to start a war, or are so incompetent in their inability to plan as to see that war is coming.
And we need Glenn Greenwald to tell us that he’s been fucking around instead of paying attention to what’s really important; or that he has sold us out.
We see no evidence of any other possibility. You’re a journalist; fill in the gap, and do not try to placate anyone again, as we are all now well aware of such techniques.
And please note Glenn, I don’t know you, so I can’t judge you. I am judging your actions, and lack thereof in the face of what is universally understood to be a damn important story that seems to be just dropped for the sake of money and glory.
you took another deeply intuitive straw poll? have you got anything approaching a data set that could possibly establish such an assertion?
or do you just need to work on your rhetorical flourishes-while-stoned?
@Kitt
http://www.creativeresistance.org/limerick-government-fails-without-privacy/
I liked this one…
Share this Art?
There are a great many ways to address the “problem” through Art which are undoubtably very effective in demanding public Debate.
Not sure about this is one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyO4grJvdKc
28,272 views. I Wonder how many ‘hits’ (from different ip’s) the intercept has had..
short but effective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z32-eLOoAUU
Via twitter, more non-edification for Mr./Ms. WTF!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55D-ybnYQSs
although ‘wankers’ suggests across the pond (H/T WTF!)
Tosser we use allot too..
Jerk chicken
That’s a keeper. Thanks.
USA—>NSA – Brilliant!
anther great gif. courtesy of abbadabba
quite nice for face book etc..
http://u2151p1177.ilyke.net/the-nsa-in-action/35873
Also available in a gif. Also this is a good one (courtesy of abbadabba)
http://u2151p1177.ilyke.net/the-nsa-in-action/35873
Sorry if posted twice didn’t appear.
i also liked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg8lVl5z4BU
NSA Phone App
Heads up TI: Evidently, “reply” isn’t working this morning. Have tried refreshing, opening in a new tab, etc several times. In spite of the fact the the bar reads: “…?replytocom=30347#respond” I find I am only able to start a new thread.
Previous comment was a specific response to: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/04/30/gchq-prism-nsa-fisa-unsupervised-access-snowden/#comment-30884
Problem solved… turning off Java as I’m switching back and forth between my browser and Tor seems to disable the reply feature. Nevermind.
“I have got to tell you that you were at the peak of your game when you posted this:”
“I won’t ridicule anyone, at anytime, anywhere, just to try and shut them up.”
-Blanca/Wilma/Wilhelmina/Marcolf
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/28/us-takes-break-condemning-tyranny-celebrate-obamas-visit-saudi-arabia/#comment-18792
“Now that is fact laden. All other commentary will pale in comparison! ROFL”
I can see you have “buckled up”
Gee El B, it seems like it was just yesterday that you were accusing Sillyputty / Jason Entwhistle of being Blanca:
El B (in response to Jason Entwhistle)
30 Apr 2014 at 10:00 pm
You would know, wouldn’t you, “Blanca”!
I guess that one lie fits all circumstances, eh El B?
@ Che Wilhelmina
Is this like a whodunnit? How many red hyper links would we need to follow to find out?
Hmmm…, Che Wilhelmina has a rather nice ring to it. Although it lacks the farcical panache of a children’s story scarecrow.
Unlike you, Wilhelmina/Marcolf/Blanca, El B seems to have a much better grasp on fact checking and sourcing what they say on here.
Live and Learn.
I am still waiting for proof of your groundless assertion that you have spent time in jail for engaging in acts of civil disobedience. Absent that prove, any call for others to substantiate their views will be viewed merely as another act of SillyPutty hypocrisy.
“and remember nothing else is Silly Putty”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxdfoJoWNE4
;-)
I suppose I thought the avatar was enough of give away…
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?p=2038872
Good luck with hunting down Blanca
Rowan
Wilma/Wilhelmina/Blanca/Marcolf:
Wilhelmina 30 Apr 2014 at 9:35 pm
Isn’t interesting how Jason Entwhistle’s commentary closely mirrors that of Sillyputty…
“You would know, wouldn’t you, “Blanca”!” was directed squarely at YOUR comment and not at JE/SP’s. I was merely pointing out that the pot was calling the kettle black … but I can see how you’d be eager to disassociate from the obvious reference to you. Disassociation is clearly something you’re all too painfully familiar with.
“You would know, wouldn’t you, “Blanca”!” was directed squarely at YOUR comment and not at JE/SP’s.”
Curious, SillyPutty also interpreted that comment as having been directed at him.
Here is another example of where you blindly participated in a speculative conversation with other members of the hive in an attempt to initially attribute Blanca’s commentary to SillyPutty, then Newt, and lastly myself.
US Takes a Break From Condemning Tyranny to Celebrate Obama’s Visit to Saudi Arabia
El B
01 Apr 2014 at 12:34 pm
@John Kelley, -Mona-, & Bill Owen…. read this thread I got from “Blanca” just yesterday on the subject of my “trolling trolls”.
“I think it might be Newt, or maybe it’s Wilma.” – El B
Anyone who reads that entire conversation, with the benefit of hindsight, can plainly see that SillyPutty assumed three identities in that conversation: SillyPutty, Blanca, and a third sockpuppet named “Seth Entwhistle” (he is currently posting under the name of Jason Entwhistle). I also believe that he has posted in past venues as the notorious PieceOfCake (among many others) who was ultimately banned by Glenn Greenwald for his obnoxious antics on UT. Even now, he is attempting to play us off, against each other, for his own sick amusement while attempting to simultaneously nurture the false public persona of a reasoned peace maker. Do not simply take my word for it. Go back over several threads and closely examine his modus operandi. In spite of our differences, I sincerely believe that you are intelligent enough to reach the correct conclusion. Bill Owen and others can fill you in on PieceOfCake.
Wilhelmina/Blanca/Marcolf – Good luck with that extrapolation/justification for your past behaviors. Try taking responsibility for it and moving on.
Reminds me of when I was accused of being an employee of the intercept a “sock puppet.” Flying off the handlemina. There goes jug christ again…
How can I game this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVvNfgF17fE
The gorilla cut parmesan show
“Reminds me of when I was accused of being an employee of the intercept a ‘sock puppet.'”
Bingo!! Ever since you posted this comment, I have suspected that this was another alter of yours SillyPutty:
Franky goes to Hollywood
01 May 2014 at 5:58 am
“I notice a difference between Jason and Silly…..”
I knew that a manipulative little ego like yours couldn’t resist letting me in on your dirty little secret. After all, a sick putz like yourself takes great pride in the ability to deceive others for pleasure sake. It is not nearly as much fun if there is nobody “in the know” that can appreciate your handiwork, eh PieceOfCake?
“Here is another example of where you blindly participated in a speculative conversation with other members of the hive in an attempt to initially attribute Blanca’s commentary to SillyPutty, then Newt, and lastly myself.”
So what? You’re the ONLY one who gives a shit – and is pathologically and obsessively compelled to defend yourselves. BTW – I love how you refer to “Blanca” as a separate identity from your own. And by love, I mean pity you.
“So what? You’re the ONLY one who gives a shit”
ROFL!!! So, then all of that speculation that you engaged in about who is using alter identities made/makes no difference at all? Oh wait, you are still falsely possessed (sorry, I couldn’t resist – the devil made me do it :)) of the belief that I am Blanca even though, that in the doing, you are further subject to the manipulation of someone who has taken great pleasure in playing you? I guess
that the devil you know is sufficient for the day, eh EL B? ROFL
“In spite of our differences, I sincerely believe that you are intelligent enough to reach the correct conclusion.”
– Wilhelmina/Wilma/Blanca/Marcolf
I am and I did. You’re are deeply disturbed individual(s) in need of psychological intervention on many levels – not the least of which to merge your alters.
I am and I did. You’re are deeply disturbed individual(s) in need of psychological intervention on many levels – not the least of which to merge your alters.
ROFL!!!! Some people just love to hate even if it means compromising their own interests in the process (Hate is ALWAYS self defeating). Enjoy.
The only voices you hear saying the word “hate” are in your head. Those are called auditory hallucinations – they’re hallmarks of bigger problems you’re dealing with.
“The only voices you hear Bzzzzz [hateful, angry drone] Bzzzz…”
It appears that some people are just ill fated to throw the baby out with the Baph water…
“The only voices you hear Bzzzzz [hateful, angry drone] Bzzzz…”
— See? Those voices (and buzzing sounds) ARE all in your head!
“It appears that some people are just ill fated to throw the baby out with the Baph water… ”
— Throwing YOU out with the “bath” water would be a blessing… but of course, that’s not what you meant, is it? Baph? Is this your cute, little Satanic nickname and/or yet another alter? It stands to reason this may be the source of your anger… and hatred… and voices… and annoying buzzing sounds.
“— Throwing YOU out with the “bath” water would be a blessing… but of course, that’s not what you meant, is it? Baph? Is this your cute, little Satanic nickname and/or yet another alter? It stands to reason this may be the source of your anger… and hatred… and voices… and annoying buzzing sounds,” she grunted as she hatefully flashed the horns of Mendes…
“Hate is ALWAYS self defeating. Enjoy.“ ~ Wilhelmina
“Remember, always give your best. Never get discouraged. Never be petty. Always remember, others may hate you. But those who hate you don’t win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.”
~ Richard M. Nixon
Get a grip on yourself Wilma. You’re the one that compared yourself to Baphomet, the Sabbatic Goat when suggesting I might throw you out with some (poorly veiled) metaphoric water. Now you’re what? Seeing and hearing “me” as yet another incarnation of the Satanic goat?
Ummmmm… you can’t SEE the “real” me … or HEAR me for that matter. The fact that you are conjuring up these (and countless other) vivid images of me and other commenters here – and “journal” them in this forum – is acutely symptomatic.
What is schizophrenia? Schizophrenia is a brain disorder that affects the way a person acts, thinks, and sees the world. People with schizophrenia have an altered perception of reality, often a significant loss of contact with reality. They may see or hear things that don’t exist, speak in strange or confusing ways and they often display an extreme preoccupation with religion or the occult.
You are not a goat. I am not a goat. There are no goats here at this website.
Clarification: “or HEAR me [grunting] …”
Keep calm and get therapy.
“Get a grip on yourself Wilma. You’re the one that compared yourself to Baphomet, the Sabbatic Goat when suggesting I might throw you out with some (poorly veiled) metaphoric water.”
If the “metaphoric water” is so “poorly veiled,” then how is it that you so grossly misinterpreted its meaning? Unless, of course, such ignorance helps to preserve the illusion that your entire online persona is not intentionally accented by a tribute to a hateful, self centered belief system. Anyone with an ounce of insight understands that Flashing the horns of Mendes with every post is interpreted by peoples of faith as “in your face” act of hateful aggression – regardless of that which is actually said. It is akin to attaching a message to every one of your comments which reads, “Do as though wilt” or “Selfishness is a virtue.” But what the hell, such gestures are deemed to be culturally chic by the chronically ignorant.
Yes indeed, one of us has clearly demonstrated unremitting penchant for deceit and hate… I’ll let others decide for themselves where the truth lies.
Aaaaaaaaaaand … you’ve just gone off the deep end.
“I’ll let others decide for themselves where the truth lies.”
“Aaaaaaaaaaand … you’ve just gone off the deep end.”
Indeed!
“The purposes of a person’s heart are deep waters, but one who has insight draws them out.” Proverbs 20:5 (NIV)
“I knew that a manipulative little ego like yours couldn’t resist letting me in on your dirty little secret. After all, a sick putz like yourself takes great pride in the ability to deceive others for pleasure sake. ”
Ego: have you been reading too much MW?
Turns out you didn’t know in this case, this might happen again for you on some other deep held suspicions. Elf’s or Elves/elfs… Dwarves exist Elfs do not.
Worzel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdJ27RynTnQ
@Franky goes to Hollywood
I am still waiting for proof of your groundless assertion that you have spent time in jail for engaging in acts of civil disobedience. Absent that prove, any call for others to substantiate their views will be viewed merely as another act of SillyPutty hypocrisy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTOQUnvI3CA
Franky?
…it’s got bells on it!
pull the other one….
” As usual, there is political satire on the national and international events of 2013 including the spying by the NSA”
Bread and Puppet:
http://www.video-vermont.com/video/bread-and-puppet-2013/
And what impact do you attribute to this particular instance of “political satire”?
Well Kitt could be like a banjo playing Nelson Mandela for all I know? but up here and not down there (can’t do the red hyper links) bread and puppet was more relevant.
In answer to your question very little (depending on what you are comparing it to impact wise).
What type of activism that requires Jail that is effective?
http://vimeo.com/49523702
*what type of activism that requires Jail is effective?
Black block?
What type of activism that requires Jail that is effective?
Why don’t you ask Martin Luther king, Malcom X, Noam Chomsky, Nelson Mandella, Mahatma Ghandi, etc. that question?
if a butterfly chances to flap his wings in Beijing in March, then, by August, hurricane patterns in the Atlantic will be completely different?
“if a butterfly chances to flap his wings in Beijing in March, then, by August, hurricane patterns in the Atlantic will be completely different?”
Ordinarily, I am not impressed with non-applicable references to chaos theory.
As a fictional trope however, this is a perfectly apt medium by which the effect of shadow puppet theater et al should be measured. Well done!
OK.. A great list including the late Mandela (as I suggested above). The reference was applied as I intended by you so well done also! If you didn’t watch the above vimeo of Chris hedges… a debate: Violence and Legitimacy in the Occupy Movement and Beyond. I thought you might be eluding to this kind of thing for a good “tactic” in activism which can as a result mean Jail time (Black block)… (if caught that is)
sorry: ‘up here’ less relevant.
[Testing…’mornin’, ya’ll!]
White House seeks legal immunity for firms that hand over customer data; Spencer Ackerman; The Guardian; 5/2/14; 8:05EDT
[Obama administration asks legislators drafting NSA reforms to protect telecoms firms for complying with court orders, Guardian learns]
‘harp w/ an e.. how w/ a d!!’
suave
harpie! So glad to see you here! Hope you are doing well and that you will continue to bring great info along for us to consider, as you always have.
Hi harpie!
WB.
bah.
After waiting quite a while to regularly read articles on TI, my rising impression is “So many wankers in one place!” I’m certainly going to wait to see how this shakes out before I recommend it to my aquaintances.
In reading through the comments, I am reminded of the saying “Opinions are like assholes – everybody’s got one.” Informed opinions, on the other hand, that are supported with facts and reasoning are as rare as hen’s teeth.
For everyone posting more than one comment on an article, and a more than one reply to a comment : please find an additional hobby. You’re not providing any food for thought.
And for the designers of this site — could you please find a way to bring back the ancient (pre-internet) “idiot filter” that most discussion boards had (when bandwidth was expensive, and we wanted to avoid what was almost assuredly and asinine comment from a regular poster)? I might even make an account.
To the crew actually doing the work – please don’t let the inanity get you down (I can’t really imagine you read through it, but I guess you must occasionally). I’m one of (I hope) many who read articles, then look through the comments for actual thought and references to other sources. Currently sadly lacking, but it is early days yet.
WTF! are any of your acquaintances called STFU?
assholes are like wankers.. especially the opinionated ones.
I exceeded my quota again dreadfully sorry old chap. If you bump in to STFU! give him my regards.
I’m one of (I hope) many who read articles, then look through the comments for actual thought and references to other sources. Currently sadly lacking, but it is early days yet.
For your selective grazing pleasure, and from this thread alone which is, admittedly, a bit smaller than others where the data you yearn for has been more plentiful:
From WaPo
Apple, Facebook, others defy authorities, notify users of secret data demands – (h/t Presumptuous Insect & Mona in a 2-for-1 special)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/apple-facebook-others-defy-authorities-increasingly-notify-users-of-secret-data-demands-after-snowden-revelations/2014/05/01/b41539c6-cfd1-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html?wpisrc=al_tech_b
Information on the Munk Debate, which you would presumably be interested in watching. Note: it will be streamed live here on TI. (h/t PI again)
http://www.munkdebates.com/MediaStorage/Debates/StateSurveillance/Docs/MunkDebateOnStateSurveillanceRelease-03Mar14.pdf
A critique of Glenn from the left. (h/t BenjaminAP)
http://jeremykkessler.tumblr.com/post/36744361932/response-to-glenn-greenwald
German gov’t won’t let Snowden testify to their parliament. It might “put a grave and permanent strain” on relations, it seems. This in advance of Merkel’s visit to the US. (h/t coram nobis)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/01/germany-edward-snowden-nsa-inquiry
Another comment on the German/US relationship c/o Anisha:
https://deveer.org.uk/dvr/index.php?title=In_Flagrante_Delicto:_The_BND_and_the_NSA
Mr. Entwhistle-Putty supplied us with a link to a suggestion for reforming elections:
http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=4104607
Ms. Gummidge has supplied us with quite a few interesting youtube presentations as well. And all of that was just in the first third of the comments as they currently stand. So, while I have no idea – nor does anyone else – of what specifically you would consider thought and references to other sources, and while the topics tend to range a bit widely at times (especially on older threads), I think it a bit disingenuous of you to say that the comment sections here are lacking in information.
BTW, for those of us who’ve engaged in ongoing head-scratching over whether or not multiple links will jam up a comment, this one was lost in the ether for a short period of time. Not sure exactly how long, but much less than an hour.
That is considerably better than five days. The website developers must have modified the rule set that governs that which is flagged for “indefinite detention” and eventual “executive verdict.”
These continuing revelations of rouge government agencies working secretly for (shadow corporate masters) while working maliciously AGAINST the law abiding public is outrageous beyond words. Thank God for Edward Snowden. Unbelievable that so many of 100s of thousands of ‘people just following orders’ as an excuse to get their piece of the pie” possess the even the least amount of courage enough to blow the whistle.
@suprabrew “rouge” government indeed!!!
From WaPo
Apple, Facebook, others defy authorities, notify users of secret data demands
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/apple-facebook-others-defy-authorities-increasingly-notify-users-of-secret-data-demands-after-snowden-revelations/2014/05/01/b41539c6-cfd1-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html?wpisrc=al_tech_b
Major U.S. technology companies have largely ended the practice of quietly complying with investigators’ demands for e-mail records and other online data, saying that users have a right to know in advance when their information is targeted for government seizure.
This increasingly defiant industry stand is giving some of the tens of thousands of Americans whose Internet data gets swept into criminal investigations each year the opportunity to fight in court to prevent disclosures. Prosecutors, however, warn that tech companies may undermine cases by tipping off criminals, giving them time to destroy vital electronic evidence before it can be gathered.
Fueling the shift is the industry’s eagerness to distance itself from the government after last year’s disclosures about National Security Agency surveillance of online services. Apple, Microsoft, Facebook and Google all are updating their policies to expand routine notification of users about government data seizures, unless specifically gagged by a judge or other legal authority, officials at all four companies said.
Woops, didn’t notice Mona posted same link below.
I did that once back at CiF and certain (ahem) detractors gave me to understand it is an unforgivable crime. ;)
Some of us aged folks likely clicked on the Mona link 4-hours ago, read the material, then clicked on the PI link just now, and the same information was new to us all over again…
About the only way to avoid double-posting a topic (unless that occurs with a minute or two because of a TI delay in posting) is to use Control + F and Search for the topic’s heading and/or the HTTP(S) link.
and BLAH BLAH BLAH
Whom are they kidding
Off Topic: Important Microsoft IE Security update today.
Today, MS patched the vulnerability regarding a potentially serious Flash-related bug when using the IE browser. If you do not have automatic updates enabled you should install this update manually. It did not require a full restart on my machine. I do not use IE but I keep it fully patched, I always keep Flash Disabled in IE (under manage browser addons) just in case, and I have all the IE Security setting set to High.
I didn’t even know this computer had ie, till last week.
I don’t how to use ie.I can not locate the place where add-ons
are disabled, where you set the security level.There’s nothing at the top,
I’m used to ff.One of my unsupported machines, my a/v had a huge update,
I think that was for this flash-bug.It made me reboot.
Here are the steps that should help (without me knowing which version of MS you are using)
Note: By using ‘Control Panel’ to make changes, you never need to “Turn ON” the IE browser to change the settings. That is, you will not have IE actively accessing the Internet and this is much safer that with the browser active, especially is there is a known ‘bug alert’ in the wild.
Click on the Windows Key (looks like a 4-squared ‘flag’ usually on the bottom of the keyboard (left usually) This brings up the Start Menu (which can be accessed also via clicking on the MS window ‘flag’ that has the 4-colored ‘flag’ squares in a ‘circle’ located on the left, right, top, or bottom of your MS Toolbar)
Type “Control Panel” in the ‘Search Program and Files’ box/space. Alternatively, Click on ‘Control Panel’ within the Start Page Menu.
Once at the Control Panel click on ‘Network and Internet’
Then click on Internet Options
The Internet Properties box displays
Click on Security Tab (next to the default General Tab)
Click on each ‘Zone’ (4 total) and set the sliding bar to High
Make sure you click Apply before you continue that will Save your changes without have to close the Internet Properties box. Therefore you can continue to make other changes.
Go to the Programs tab and then select Manage add-ons.
The Toolbar and Extensions page displays. This is where you can Disable (and then Enable later if you prefer) 1 or all of your Add-ons. I Disable All of mine except for my Anti-virus programs’ extensions/add-ons.
Make sure you Save (and/or Apply) the changes before closing the Internet Properties Box.
You will need to Enable most of the MS add-ons that you Disabled to have IE work correctly with some programs but you can leave Flash and some others Disabled and only Enable those as needed.
I too use Firefox and I think it is the best of the common 3 browsers (including Chrome). Managing add-ons is much easier in FF than within IE.
I’m using W7, which I hate.I found the control panel and internet options.Won’t this fix the settings for the entire computer? I don’t want my settings to be ‘high’ for other browsers.
In ie, I’m able to find ‘manage add-ons’, but something called ‘Windows Live ID Sign-In Helper’ appears.I’m asked to search for this.I did this, but don’t understand the result.
Is it something that is used if you have many networked machines? How can I get rid of this message and disable flash?
Thanks for your help!
Changing the Internet Options (but only what we discussed) should only change the items for the IE browser and not other Windows settings. Fire Fox and Chrome also have their own browser settings and options. You can always change the IE setting back if you need to.
If you have the Flash add-on installed for the IE browser then you should see ‘Shockwave Flash Object’ under Adobe Systems Inc. within the add-on section. Just select Disable. Remember these settings only change the IE browser and not FF and Chrome, which have their own add-ons/extensions that can be enabled/disabled/changed.
Ensure that your ‘Default’ Browser is FF (or Chrome), which you have likely already done, to avoid inadvertently using IE. Although I do not use IE, I still update Flash for IE (at the same time I update Flash for Fire Fox) but I keep Flash Disabled in IE.
There are ways to Disable/Turn OFF IE completely, but doings so might cause Windows issues. All the other changes we discussed can be easily reversed if you ever need IE as a browser or if you note changes to Windows’ operation (very unlikely).
(Note: I read that 22% to 55% still use the IE browser. Some websites might still require its use).
More of the Snowden Effect- From WaPo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/apple-facebook-others-defy-authorities-increasingly-notify-users-of-secret-data-demands-after-snowden-revelations/2014/05/01/b41539c6-cfd1-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html
It should be noted that Microsoft was required to turn over customer data even though the data was stored on servers outside the country. So anyone in the world using American companies for email etc are still liable to American warrants no matter where the data is actually stored.
Not a real selling point for American companies.
God Bless Edward Snowden. He has confirmed every suspicion I’ve ever had about what is going on. People are no longer calling me paranoid.
Sad but true.
“God Bless Edward Snowden. He has confirmed every suspicion I’ve ever had about what is going on. People are no longer calling me paranoid.”
Do you mean to say that, once you confirmed your irrational suspicion that people were calling you paranoid, they stopped doing so? Inneresting (H/t El B)…
“once you confirmed your irrational suspicion that people were calling you paranoid”
You can put words into anothers mouth, but you cannot make them mean anything.
” We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.”
– Epictetus
“I’ve got a boo boo.”
– Epidermis
Yes Wilhelmina – Have a Boo-boo. Please.
How long did it take to VET this data? Let us know when you get to the meat, rather than the crumbs off the table.
I really don’t understand why you think this is crumby instead of meaty.
That reminds me – I’m supposed to be cooking chicken parm tomorrow night just when the game’s on (Munk Debates).
Heh! I think I will make meatballs. Equally crumby and meaty.
It is going to be a great debate.
We already know of the cozy relations between NSA and GCHQ and these are the crumbs from that loaf. Man cannot live on bread alone.
“He that can have patience can have what he will.”
you
I just saw a tweet that the Munk Debates *will* be streamed here at The Intercept.
It is tomorrow at 7 pm.
http://www.munkdebates.com/MediaStorage/Debates/StateSurveillance/Docs/MunkDebateOnStateSurveillanceRelease-03Mar14.pdf
Yes, I saw that tweet from TI, and Glenn had said that might happen as well somewhere in comments.
Yet, nothing at that link to the Munk Debates does state TI will be livestreaming.
[shrug]
I recommend playing it safe and registering at…I forgot the name of the live stream address, but I registered for free. There’s nothing to it, and you’ll be guaranteed to be all set for the live stream of the debate. If they play it here, fine, but what the heck, better safe than …
https://www.munkdebates.com/debates/State-Surveillance
Thanks!
If they play it here, fine, but what the heck, better safe than …
Also, you must register ahead of time, as opposed to right before the start of the debate. So it would be wise to do so today if you plan on watching via their website. Can’t remember where I read/heard that.
I consider myself to the left of Glenn in many ways, at least in view if not action. But I’m a long time fan. For reasons that I feel should be obvious to all fellow hippies and lefties. And there are respectful critics of Glenn Greenwald from the left. Here’s but one example I largely agree with.
http://jeremykkessler.tumblr.com/post/36744361932/response-to-glenn-greenwald
But the Ames “bad faith-sell out” bent is a very different story. It contains my curiosity for a variety of reasons. First, Greenwald’s writing has hammered the Democratic Party’s institutional bonafides since Obama’s election. Getting past the usual defensive tribalism, whose levels of hypocrisy even surprised Glenn after awhile, the crux of the critique has repeatedly skewered the Democrat’s many glaring similarities with the GOP’s foreign policy and civil liberties rap. Snowden’s disclosure gave that critique added weight (to say the least). I think the Overton Window has changed since the story broke, which I’ll get to in a bit. But the argument coming from Ames and co. (beyond a butt load of emotional projection and personal animus) isn’t about The Party, at least on the face of it. Rather it comes down to the narrowness of Glenn’s beat. If I’m reading the general accusation correctly, Glenn’s narrowness elides the real center of power- namely economic, if not the structure of capitalism itself. I don’t agree, but that seems to be the gist. And that gist makes his narrowness at best useful idiocy, and at worst false consciousness. Is that a fair summation?
If that’s remotely fair then I think its revealing. The Democratic Party, the ostensible center of political agency for the economic left, has resisted substantive pressure going on 40 years now. In fact The Party has been arguably inoculated from the politics of economic justice since they beat the shit out of those hippies in ’68. Justice Powell wrote that pivotal (if largely forgotten) memo not soon after and the rest is a tidy neoliberal history in my mind. But here’s what sticks out for me. For the first time since Vietnam, the Democratic Party is popularly associated with the violence of Empire. That hasty vote in the House post Snowden uncovered “bi-partisan” fault lines that rarely come up for air so publicly. This is where the shift in the Overton Window comes in, both good and bad from the point of view of anti-imperialism. The fog of “Bill Clinton’s Party” (peaceful, technocratic, global partner), is beginning to evaporate. Although this is largely intuitive and speculative, Glenn’s writing has had, and Snowden’s evidence accelerated, an impact on the image of the Democratic Party as a shameless steward of Empire.
When Glenn is accused of bad faith, selling out, etc. in proportion to the political impact he’s had on the Democratic Party, from the left.. whose flank is being protected here? What are its contours? I think this essay by Matt Stoller (way back in the heady days of 2011) gets to the bloody heart of it.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/12/matt-stoller-why-ron-paul-challenges-liberals.html
Glenn’s “support” of Ron Paul remains a sore point with the Ames crowd. And they doth protest too much. “It’s not about The Party”. But it is. It really really is.
If you’re not reading Stoller btw, you’re missing out. He is killing it on tumblr.
mattstoller.tumblr.com
“Ron Paul’s stance should be seen as a challenge to better create a coherent structural critique of the American political order. It’s quite obvious that there isn’t one coming from the left, otherwise the figure challenging the war on drugs and American empire wouldn’t be in the Republican primary as the libertarian candidate. To get there, liberals must grapple with big finance and war, two topics that are difficult to handle in any but a glib manner that separates us from our actual traditional and problematic affinity for both. War financing has a specific tradition in American culture, but there is no guarantee war financing must continue the way it has. And there’s no reason to assume that centralized power will act in a more just manner these days, that we will see continuity with the historical experience of the New Deal and Civil Rights Era. The liberal alliance with the mechanics of mass mobilizing warfare, which should be pretty obvious when seen in this light, is deep-rooted.”
This pretty much sums up the paradigm: the stranglehold on effective democratic public policy that is supposed to be based on the idea that it is held by the majority of us, and not just those in power – be they elected or funding those who are.
Although admittedly a newcomer to the online debate on these and other issues that I consider progressive (as in, “not the status quo” and better for all of us, not just the richest among us) I have nonetheless witnessed and participated in trying to stop this renegade train-wreck that the combined plutocratic domination of my government (and now most world governments) and the ongoing stripping of civil liberties which has been occurring over the past 40 years or so.
From my perspective, the only way to get governance returned to the people is to get money out of politics. This starts with an effective, public-only financing of all local, state and national offices where any and all outside funding is disallowed.
Then comes the prohibition against having elected public employees leave office to work for those corporations for whom they wrote laws that enhanced their new employers. But this could effectively addressed and therefore be moot with public-only financing of elections.
Just like the never before held public debate surrounding the Wiki-leaks and Snowden revelations, this public financing option of elections goes hand-in-hand in the effort to return back to us our civil liberties and rights to be effectively self-represented and also to be secure in our own persons; rights which have been so dishonestly and secretively sold out from under all of us.
“Elections belong to the people. It’s their decision. If they decide to turn their back on the fire and burn their behinds, then they will just have to sit on their blisters.”
– Abraham Lincoln
Regards, Sp
err, rather meant “vaccinated from the politics of economic justice”. heh.
I second the recommendation on the Stoller article, which back in the day Glenn either linked to at Salon, or tweeted. I’ve also linked to it.
How very sad for British member of Parliament Julian Huppert, and probably also for all of the others claiming public benefits for signing on in Westminster, that he doesn’t realise he and his fellow honourable members are but minnows in a sea of sharks and intelligence agents do whatever they like and use Parliament to take the blame for anything which might be untoward and surface in the general public knowledge realm, and that will invariably have been intentionally accidentally “leaked” to serve and server another Greater Intelligence Game agenda beyond puppet and muppet pay grades.
File under US Allies, Relations With, as a sidebar. German gov’t won’t let Snowden testify to their parliament. It might “put a grave and permanent strain” on relations, it seems. This in advance of Merkel’s visit to the US.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/01/germany-edward-snowden-nsa-inquiry
I’ll believe that Germany values bilateral relations when they apologize to the US for making it necessary to spy on them.
Thanks for making me laugh – at first, but it seems less far-fetched as time goes by…
Merkel so eloquently put the German (and EU which she runs) the view from the sycophant governments in Western Europe. She knows with without doubt that Germany is not, nor are any of the Western European countries sovereign nations they are semi-autonomous political regions of the US Neoliberal/con Empire expected to do as told and shut up. And she performs as expected.
The Germans and the Americans have been in bed together all along, see this:
https://deveer.org.uk/dvr/index.php?title=In_Flagrante_Delicto:_The_BND_and_the_NSA
It is outrageous that these analytics are being shared with the clueless British (not being disparaging, but if they had their own clues, they wouldn’t need GHOSTMACHINE to generate them). But maybe, this ‘Analytic Engine’ is based on Charles Babbage’s design, (although I believe he called his an ‘Analytical Engine’); so perhaps they owe the British a favor.
It is certain that police departments all over the United States would benefit from such an Analytic Engine which, at the press of a key, can generate a list of thousands of suspects. Unemployment would literally disappear as police departments hired millions of new recruits to follow up on these new leads. Journalists, politicians, sales reps and anyone else with a long contact list which might include a ‘targeted identifier’, could be rounded up and questioned.
So why are taxpayers in the US paying to assist turning Britain into a police state, when the US police state is still a work in progress?
All very well, Duce mio mai, but here you must ponder the US concept of “boondoggle,” which is not only an exercise in bureaucratic circumlocution, but is meant to squander considerable gov’t funds along the way.
About the nearest metaphor for that in Italian history I can think of is the Caproni Ca.60.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caproni_Ca.60
His dream went up in smoke.
>”So why are taxpayers in the US paying to assist turning Britain into a police state, when the US police state is still a work in progress?”
Huh … because the Americans and the British are two peoples separated only by a common language? (h/t O. Wilde)
“The Freshman”
Matthew Broderick: “Is that a picture of Mussolini on the wall”?
Marlon Brando (who looks remarkably like the Godfather): “Uh, yeah, sure. I keep it there for sentimental reasons. You know, like the Beatles or something.”
“Huh … because the Americans and the British are two peoples separated only by a common language? (h/t O. Wilde)”
When the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) was first established in 1921, its founding members shared a common view that British Imperialism was on the decline. Concordantly, they believed that a more formalized Anglo-American alliance would facilitate America’s rapidly burgeoning expectation of replacing Britain as the dominant power in the world. Just as Britain had used its navy to enforce America’s claim on the Americas during much of the nineteenth century, the US would use its military might to protect British interests, especially in the Far East where they (the British) were weakest.
In the run-up to WW11, the CFR had pretty much relegated British dominance to the dustbin of history. Even as Churchill secretly negotiated with the Roosevelt administration to deal with German aggression, the CFR was advocating for a foreign policy that perceived German dominance of the European continent as a foregone conclusion. The Dulles brothers were tasked with the responsibility of courting German interests on behalf of the CFR throughout the 1930s. When it became clear to US policy makers that Germany aggression would not prevail along its eastern front, the Dulles brothers were already strategically positioned to facilitate the secret expatriation of Nazi Germany’s brain trust, with the aid of the Vatican and P2 (Propaganda Due) masons.
A study of Australia’s conscious migration from British to American influence in the post WW11 period reveals the degree to which US foreign policy had been successfully executed to shrewdly advance the CFRs imperialist ambitions at the expense of their British allies. Japan figured very prominently in the CFR’s vision of global dominance in a post WW11 world. Allen Dulles’ negotiations with Australian representatives for a mutual defense pact involved a process of placation and reassurances whereby a reconstituted Japanese presence in the Far East could figure prominently in the CFR’s vision of global dominance in a post WW11 world.
Although Americans, Canadians, Britons, New Zealand, and Australians are signatories to an anglophonic alliance (Five Eyes), there is little doubt that the US is the Alpha indisputable Alpha of the pack.
It’s a dog-eat-dog world, even among members of the same pack.
“Ron Paul’s stance should be seen as a challenge to better create a coherent structural critique of the American political order. It’s quite obvious that there isn’t one coming from the left, otherwise the figure challenging the war on drugs and American empire wouldn’t be in the Republican primary as the libertarian candidate. To get there, liberals must grapple with big finance and war, two topics that are difficult to handle in any but a glib manner that separates us from our actual traditional and problematic affinity for both. War financing has a specific tradition in American culture, but there is no guarantee war financing must continue the way it has. And there’s no reason to assume that centralized power will act in a more just manner these days, that we will see continuity with the historical experience of the New Deal and Civil Rights Era. The liberal alliance with the mechanics of mass mobilizing warfare, which should be pretty obvious when seen in this light, is deep-rooted.”
This pretty much sums up the paradigm: the stranglehold on effective democratic public policy that is supposed to be based on the idea that it is held by the majority of us, and not just those in power – be they elected or funding those who are.
Although admittedly a newcomer to the online debate on these and other issues that I consider progressive (as in, “not the status quo” and better for all of us, not just the richest among us) I have nonetheless witnessed and participated in trying to stop this renegade train-wreck that the combined plutocratic domination of my government (and now most world governments) and the ongoing stripping of civil liberties which has been occurring over the past 40 years or so.
From my perspective, the only way to get governance returned to the people is to get money out of politics. This starts with an effective, public-only financing of all local, state and national offices where any and all outside funding is disallowed.
Then comes the prohibition against having elected public employees leave office to work for those corporations for whom they wrote laws that enhanced their new employers. But this could effectively addressed and therefore be moot with public-only financing of elections.
Just like the never before held public debate surrounding the Wiki-leaks and Snowden revelations, this public financing option of elections goes hand-in-hand in the effort to return back to us our civil liberties and rights to be effectively self-represented and also to be secure in our own persons; rights which have been so dishonestly and secretively sold out from under all of us.
“Elections belong to the people. It’s their decision. If they decide to turn their back on the fire and burn their behinds, then they will just have to sit on their blisters.”
– Abraham Lincoln
Regards, Sp
i am not opposed to such propositions in principle. if nothing else, it could stimulate the megacorps to go all-out in pushing the “voting is pointless” agenda and we might actually finally find out just how susceptible “we” are as a populace to such shenanigans.
but is the Lincoln quote meant to be dripping with irony? ;)
I think I see the problem.
Some here think The Intercept’s work should bring down the system.
Not gonna happen.
Massive protest (including national strikes, ideally) on the part of the proletariat is the only way to usher in systemic change, and even then it may not work (remember the thousands marching against the Iraq war?)
Stop wanting people who risk their freedom to ‘do it for you,’ in other words, and perhaps even be grateful that any evidence of dubious activity or even corruption in high places is being addressed at all in larger than deliberately-marginalized contexts.
All, and I repeat ALL, Snowden and The Intercept can do is encourage debate.
Where that debate leads, if anywhere, is up to you, not them.
Nixon wasn’t even arrested after his repulsive shenanigans were fully revealed in all their gruesome details by ‘The Press.’ Think about it, won’t you? The systemic elitism is much more entrenched now, rather obviously, than in his day.
Bingo! And this expectation is found outside of The Intercept, as well.
If Snowden doesn’t scream “Burn the mothafuckah down!” in his every utternce, and Glenn & Co. don’t explicitly adopt anarchy as their reason for publishing NSA documents, thenm for a loud few, they are not “true radicals.”
ppfffft
Let the More Pure rally the troops and do the violent overthrow thing — if they think the time has come for that. In the meantime, brave people are giving us the urgently needed information to save the Internet — or to at least work around what “they” do to monitor us.
“Stop wanting people who risk their freedom to ‘do it for you,’ in other words, and perhaps even be grateful that any evidence of dubious activity or even corruption in high places is being addressed at all in larger than deliberately-marginalized contexts.
All, and I repeat ALL, Snowden and The Intercept can do is encourage debate.
Absolutely 100% correct. The idea that too many think that it will be “someone else” that affects the change that is needed to address these concerns is the largest hurdle to getting anything done.
Get off your collective asses and vote, run for office, picket, protest, write letters to the editor, your elected representatives, boycott, and do whatever else you can think of to get the message across that this is NOT the world we want to live in.
“Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world…would do this, it would change the earth.”
– William Faulkner
Regards, JE/SP
I fourth the sentiment from Cindy, Mona and Jason.
Bunch of persistent whiners and lazy finger pointers here, and all over twitter and elsewhere where voices can be voiced demanding that “Someone Else Do It For Them”… “whaaaaaaa.” Oh, and Wilhelmina is about the worst of that bunch who comments here…along with CraigESPNSummers, of course.
“Bunch of persistent whiners and lazy finger pointers here, and all over twitter and elsewhere where voices can be voiced demanding that “Someone Else Do It For Them”… “whaaaaaaa.” Oh, and Wilhelmina is about the worst of that bunch who comments here…along with CraigESPNSummers, of course.”
Lol! Poor lil banjo playin Kitt can’t stand to have her chronic hypocrisy and compulsive authoritarianism questioned; boo hoo. ROFL
We can’t all play the banjo for children’s shadow theater. I am sure that that will stop all of the big bad transnationals from fracking in your backyard. I would be willing to bet that there isn’t one in your shadow theater troop that has spent a single day in jail for engaging in acts of civil disobedience. Furthermore, I’d bet that everyone of you pay your taxes like good little boys and girls while complaining non-stop about the evil machinations that they pay for. But that’s OK because you and your hive support your champion, Glenn Greenwald, by directing non-stop, unsubstantiated, vitriolic rhetoric at anyone who actually prefers to think for themself. What a hypocrite!
What absolute word vomit. Although I cannot speak for others, I’ve both “spent time” and lost work due to “acts of civil disobedience,” etc.
And your continuing conflation of others who you claim are championing “Glenn Greenwald, by directing non-stop, unsubstantiated, vitriolic rhetoric at anyone who actually prefers to think for themselves” is both oxymoronic and hypocritical, to say the least, particularly given your verbose track record and your wildly swinging off-topic diatribes.
One wonders if some type of Dr. Wilhelmina/Mr. Marcolf syndrome might be presenting itself here. Regardless – please, take some of your own advice and have a nice day.
You string a bunch of words together that are supposed to be facts about me, and then you conclude with, “what a hypocrite.” If I write that Wilhelmina is an alligator, I and everyone reading that “fact” can assume that it’s true simply because I wrote it? Right?
Making fun of a play – a play that happens to have fact, after fact, after fact about fracking written into the dialog — just because you’re in a pout is about as childish as one can get. I don’t know how you can read your own comments back to yourself and recognize that in time to save yourself from clicking, Post Comment.
What I see as an irrelevant side-note: many of the activists that I know have gone to jail for civil disobedience. I personally don’t see that as good or bad or a badge of honor. I see it as just another unfortunate black mark on our society, same as I see the gross overreach prosecution of Drake and Swartz as examples of a horribly out of control so called Justice system.
Oh, and you forgot to make fun of the fact that, besides banjo, I played harmonica in that play also.
“What absolute word vomit. Although I cannot speak for others, I’ve both “spent time” and lost work due to “acts of civil disobedience,” etc.” – SillyPutty / Jason Entwhistle / etc.
Are you saying that you spent time in jail for acts of civil disobedience? What would silly SillyPutty say in a situation like this… Prove it! Where is your evidence? Words are cheap!!!
“What I see as an irrelevant side-note: many of the activists that I know have gone to jail for civil disobedience. ”
I notice that you did not include yourself in this claim!
“I personally don’t see that as good or bad or a badge of honor. ”
You have responded to a thread that began with this assertion:
“Massive protest (including national strikes, ideally) on the part of the proletariat is the only way to usher in systemic change, and even then it may not work (remember the thousands marching against the Iraq war?)”
And which contains this additional comment:
“Get off your collective asses and vote, run for office, picket, protest, write letters to the editor, your elected representatives, boycott, and do whatever else you can think of to get the message across that this is NOT the world we want to live in.”
To which you ignorantly responded:
“Bunch of persistent whiners and lazy finger pointers here, and all over twitter and elsewhere where voices can be voiced demanding that “Someone Else Do It For Them”… “whaaaaaaa.” Oh, and Wilhelmina is about the worst of that bunch who comments here…along with CraigESPNSummers, of course.”
You chose to speciously attack CraigSummers and me for our alleged laziness and inaction even though you know nothing of our personal lives. And, you now have the temerity to complain about the fact that I questioned the effectiveness of you shadow theater actions? I dare say, Kitt, that you are, once again, in a position to know far more about hypocrisy than “justice.”
You just don’t make sense. You’re completely incoherent because your “conclusions” are connected to delusions. Nothing I wrote leads to your conclusion about me being hypocrytical. And I have no idea how effective or not our shadow play was, or will continue to be – (it is on youtube and other websites, so it lives on). But I don’t do what I do with expectations. Or at least I try not to have expectations, because most of what might or might not come from the actions that I involve myself in with others is mostly, if not completely, out of my hands. I just do what I do in the hopes that the actions might educate some or move others to get involved.
You’re correct that I don’t know about your life, but judging by what you write here, you’re an extremely unpleasant person with a mission in your life that seems to be more about one upping and just being a general nag.
“You’re correct that I don’t know about your life…” Kitt
Thus, you lied in an attempt to denigrate those whose opinions do not comport with your own. And, once again, you have the temerity to accuse me of being an “extremely unpleasant person with a mission in your life that seems to be more about one upping…”
Beyond the fact that this comment is a text book example of projection, it is also a stellar demonstration of your unlimited capacity for self-deception.
You are a liar and a hypocrite! You best get use to the fact that others are not going to be “pleasant” toward you when you choose to indulge you chronic penchant for such ugly behavior.
Wilhelmina- you are truly making no sense – pathologically so. Most of your posts have at least the directionality of presenting an argument, sans facts or evidence, unfortunately, but your latest diatribes are nothing more than lashing out at whoever or whatever seems convenient.
Two things are certain:
1) You’ll not stop, even though your assertions are proved incorrect or lacking evidence time after time, and
2) You’ll use ad hominem attacks to punctuate your arguments, or to rebut those who call you on it, because you consistently have no other recourse at hand.
” Lying just for the fun of it is either art or pathology.”
– Mason Cooley
“Can art affect political change…., I’d rather ask, why is it so hard to make art today that is politically effective.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pvFRFpX1GI
Perhaps because members of the audience are complaining that the performers are not in prison?
Could we get a more dedicated Banjo player?
Baglama anyone?
Bread and puppet.
[test remove 2nd link]
“You’ll not stop, even though your assertions are proved incorrect or lacking evidence time after time”
“You’ll not stop, even though your assertions are proved incorrect or lacking evidence time after time…”
I am still waiting for proof of your groundless assertion that you have spent time in jail for engaging in acts of civil disobedience. Absent that prove, any call for others to substantiate their views will be viewed merely as another act of SillyPutty hypocrisy.
2nd link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0RiDrmR54I
Ad hominem?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arH3od_2xIg
Lazy…
Che Wilhelmina
BAGLAMAS
“Musicians during war times were innovative enough to make small baglama from water flasks supplied by the army to the soldiers.
Furthermore, prisoners were using small dry gourds or other similar types of materials such as carved sound box to make small size baglama, which they would conceal on them and smuggle in their jail cells. These instruments were also known as “Gonato” which means “The knee” because they would fasten it on to their knee when they were entering the jail in such a way that the guards would not be able to detect them.”
a short bouzouki history: http://www.bobsboots.com/CDs/bouziki.html
Bread and puppet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp-OI9IhYOI
Creative Resistance is a website dedicated to art for political change. I know the people who maintain the site, and who also personally create art that is featured on the site along with so much other art. One of them happened to have conceived the shadow play that I took part in, but that was just one of probably now hundreds of art projects that she has either created on her own or contributed to. The shadow play was just one project that a bunch of us put together over a period of a few weeks, contributing whatever talents or time that we had available. We’re not, as Wilhelmina the special one put it, a shadow play troupe, or something like that.
Looks like my link didn’t work, so here it is again:
http://www.creativeresistance.org/
Wilhelmina/Blanca/Marcolf – the records of incarceration no longer exist for the civil disobedience acts for which I served time; however, one the events is located here. I’ll not go into greater detail due to privacy concerns, so your disbelief, should it remain, will be your problem, not mine.
Regarding hypocrisy: It’s apparent that the ongoing efforts to get your point of view across on here and other sites has frustrated you. One suggestion would be to be more clear in what you are actually asserting, provide facts to support those claims when they apply to the discussion at hand, and to politely, rather than contemptuously respond to others that seek clarification.
What you do in the end is up to you. What has already been determined by others on here will only be changed by what you do.
““There are two circumstances that lead to arrogance: one is when you’re wrong and you can’t face it; the other is when you’re right and nobody else can face it.”
– Criss Jami, Diotima, Battery, Electric Personality
“Wilhelmina/Blanca/Marcolf – the records of incarceration no longer exist for the civil disobedience acts for which I served time; however, one the events is located here.”
Pure Bullshit!
“Pure Bullshit!”
Prove it.
fifthing the sentiment.
however, i’m surprised to see that someone going by Kitt (whose input at Salon and the Graun i recall admiring repeatedly) wastes energy attacking the likes of chris floyd or the rancid honeytrap. they are the few who build reasonable cases. those debates, too, are worth having. Floyd’s commentariat seem to be a rather repulsive flailing circle-jerk for the most part, but tarzie has been attracting a variety of sharp and not entirely destructive minds for a while now.
granted, i have no proof that all Kitts are one and the same; in fact i hope that the last time i saw one “over there” that it was merely a poorly-executed smear-by-insinuation job…
“……Prove it…….”
Yea. You are a fine one to ask someone to prove anything. You avoid debate like the plague as you proved with this response:
“…….Well sourced Kitt – thanks for that. I tend to let McCain’s comments just slide right on by anymore…much like craigsummers…..”
Certainly a coward’s way out.
“can art affect political change…., I’d rather ask, why is it so hard to make art today that is politically effective.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pvFRFpX1GI
Perhaps because members of the audience are complaining that the performers are not in prison?
Could we get a more dedicated Banjo player?
Baglama anyone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0RiDrmR54I
Bread and puppet.
>”Nixon wasn’t even arrested after his repulsive shenanigans were fully revealed in all their gruesome details by ‘The Press.’ Think about it, won’t you? The systemic elitism is much more entrenched now, rather obviously, than in his day.”
I have checked the record. Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about noodling Monica Lewdinsky, poor child, in the mid/late 90s … but nothing came of it except the Republicans had a cow.
Other than that, Bingo!
*see my book “The Iraq War and Impeachment of Bill Clinton’ for further details …
As a supporter and a critic of Mr. Greenwald, I have been especially critical of the slow release of NSA-related articles and the prospect that he likely delayed and handpicked the ‘cream-of-the-crop’ of those documents’ disclosures for his new book. However, since Mr. Greenwald had made his case within the TI comment section with some disclosures I had not anticipated would occur, I now fully rescind my past criticisms based upon his fair rebuttal, after what I consider one lapse of his good judgment in a reply to me.
Should he profit from book sales related to the NSA documents? I will let others decide; for me, the point is now moot and I congratulate Mr. Greenwald on this early recognition of ‘No Place to Hide’.
{Quote:
“An Amazon Best Book of the Month, May 2014: In May of 2013, Edward Snowden, a young systems administrator contracting for the National Security Agency, fled the United States for Hong Kong, carrying with him thousands of classified documents outlining the staggering capabilities of the NSA.’s surveillance programs–including those designed to collect information within the U.S. There Snowden arranged a meeting with Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald, and so began the most explosive leak of classified material since the Pentagon Papers, over 40 years ago. No Place to Hide opens with Greenwald’s tense account of his initial cloak-and-dagger encounters with Snowden, then transitions into descriptions of the NSA’s vast information-collection apparatus, including a selection of the “Snowden files” with commentary on the alphabet soup of agencies and code names. And–in typical Greenwald style–the book is packed with his opinions on government snooping, its legality, and the impacts on our Constitutional freedoms. Whether you consider Snowden a whistleblower crying foul on government overreach, or a self-aggrandizing traitor who put national security at risk, Greenwald’s book is thrilling and enlightening, a bellwether moment in a crucial debate. –Jon Foro”
Unquote}
(H/T) https://twitter.com/AndrewDFish
(Note: I orginally misplaced this comment down thread)
All GCHQ has to do is tell NSA that they’re pursuing copyright violators. NSA will hand over the building keys.
(Extemperaneous – I am not quite at a stage of recovery that is conducive to writing formal articles…)
I wanted to convey my insight into these matters in a more pragmatic – less emotional, less confrontational that is – sense.
I am a person who has nothing but time on my hands, time which I spend thinking; something I have come to understand that most people do not do anymore. Ask yourself what your reaction is to any problem – is it to think through the problem, compare it to your understanding of physical and other sciences, and solve it yourself; or do you consult someone, or “look it up” on Google or elsewhere?
My efforts to communicate may insult many; but I assure it is not my intent. I merely make observations and communicate them the only effective way I can – through a personality, usually ego-based; which I have to cobble together with limited capabilities to remember the underlying facts which form the base of my argument (a formal argument, something you who comment here ought to familiarize yourself with as you continuously commit fallacy after fallacy which can easily be demonstrated if someone took the time to point them out.)
So, I’m not your enemy, I’m just a brain damaged genius who is trying to help the very people who have made his life a living hell. So pardon if I get a little emotional and angry once in a while. Don’t let it get in the way of the message.
And the message here, what my busy brain and years of research and constant updates of information from around the world and from various news sources which are checked against each other and against my undersetanding of human behavior especially moral reasoning, is that the shit has started to hit the fan. Our world, I’m afraid, is coming a violent end.
“Our World” needs clarification. Our world is the paradigm of industrialized society and capitalism. And this site, and a story from Germany today are the final nails in the coffin of the future of American imperialist ideologies; a fact I cannot celebrate as I am still stuck here.
Germany has formally refused entry for Edward Snowden to testify in person on the NSA matters to German Parliment. While there is infighting among elected officials; the end result will be that the status quo remains. What I believe drives this is pressure from American interests; financial and military, and likely officially supported.
In other words, the same people, pressure and techniques which have led to The Intercept selling us out, has also led to German rulers selling out its people…again.
And that, my friends, is the point. We have been sold out – again, as we have been throughout history. Why and by whom is an understanding I have which I try to share in my show through a semi-fictional means (I call our rulers zombies for a reason – they literally are not “human beings” as modern archeology and sociology and even psychology define them). And you’ll just have to refer to my show to find what I mean. All of the answers are there.
The real problem is that these people who rule us do so in complete and utter ignorance of what I term the “rules of the universe,” hard and fast laws of nature that cannot be changed no matter how much money or power you throw at them. And these people are no more than addicted to money and power; and their addiction is taking the whole planet down with them.
The solution to the world’s problems is as simple as interdiction. But we can never get there until we recognize what the world’s problems are. I have done a great deal of research on the subject, and have been imploring people, anyone who will listen, to view my work and see if I might not be on to something. I’ve tried to communicate that this isn’t about me; but part of the problem is your egos have been emboldened and strengthened as a natural response to the world around you, and egos don’t like to be told they are wrong; especially not about their very paradigm. It is a threat of the most grave kind – which make sense if you consider the reactions I get, and also the reactions of the state to political activists. Look at the McMillan trial in NY. Here the whole damn system is fighting one obviously innocent woman who dare to tell them that their entire paradigm is wrong.
Look at the signs. Glenn has sold out. Germany is selling out. The US State Department is now working in conjuction with the military industrial complex and perhaps even the bankers to destroy Russia in a game that they don’t even remember the rules of. The result is a strengthening alliance; military and economic, between China and Russia. And after my visit to the scrap yard yesterday (I don’t buy ANYTHING new if I can help it, and why when I can get $400 worth of material for $45?) when I found out that even America’s (valuable) trash is going China; I realize now that things are far worse than even I understood.
America is vulnerable. We have Senator Corker beating the war drums with legislation that history will show was an act of war. We have a power grid that is now advertised to the entire world as to how fragile it is and how impossible it would be to restore it if even partially damaged. And we have a sophisticated enemy who has long since outsmarted our military; which is heavily if not outright reliant upon a fragile network of tiny, fragile satellites in a sky that also contains Chinese satellite killers (at least, that’s my understanding – as is all of what I say here.)
America is being gutted economically. Our technical advantage is long since gone. The only things we have left are oil and nuclear weapons – though no longer the staff to wield them. And we have a nation here that is run by psychopaths who are addicted to power and the money associated with it who are ignoring our very security even as they attack the citizenry at-large; political activists, the mentally ill; anyone who is a threat to the status quo.
What does the future hold for America? That’s up to Americans. But until we have real leadership, or a revolution of awakening; America will continue to fall and will take down her allies in the process.
As for me, I’ll be down south, very far south; trying to survive on my ship which will soon be the only safe place on the planet for me given my genetic condition and the fact that my ship will be the only place I know will be free of mold; because I have a plan to make it that way, permanently.
My work online is coming to an end; much to the joy of people like Glenn Greenwald, Senator Dianne Feinstein, and Oprah Winfrey. I have to work on finding help, as I cannot live alone because I cannot think by myself; and my ability to use others to assist me to think is no longer a viable option for me. Finding someone requires I do so in person, thus my online life needs to take a back seat. Given my opinion of the internet; this is a move to also prepare me for the future without the internet.
Your opinion of me are irrelevant, as the information is beyond me. I deal in truth and fact. That means that what I deal in has nothing to do with me, and especially not my ego. I highly encourage each of you to learn about ego and see if it doesn’t perhaps control your life as well. Watch Guy Ritchie’s “Revolver” a few times until you get it.
If you are at all interested in seeing the world as it truly exists, I highly encourage you to spend a full day meditating, preferably under the influence of marijuana. Watch “Waking Life” by Linklater; “The Matrix”, “Hombre Mirando al Sudeste”, “Zeitgeist: Moving Forward”, “Culture in Decline” (especially episode 6), and my show if you really want to torture your ego and wake your subconscious.
If you are satisfied with the world as it is, with the status quo; you go ahead and hit that button and flame away. But know this; no amount of flaming or trolling will ever undo the fact that a hint of the truth has touched the minds of those who read this.
Thank you
Nuff said!
So your ship is a cruise ship?
Now that’s some advice worth pondering!
As GBCW’s go, I must say, well done! Hasta la vista! And good luck with the whole antiseptic cruise ship thing…
Der Untergang (SHTF)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k7inHcLpcQ
US Supreme Court Refuses to Uphold the Constitution: Allows Indefinite Detention
From the story:
“The trial judge in the case asked the government attorneys 5 times whether journalists like Hedges could be indefinitely detained simply for interviewing and then writing about bad guys.
The government refused to promise that journalists like Hedges won’t be thrown in a dungeon for the rest of their lives without any right to talk to a judge.”
– – –
And that is what hovers over Glenn and the others at TI. And another thing: this appears to be a denial of petition of cert., so it suggests that the petitioners couldn’t get even four Supreme Court justices to pay attention.
This, from SCOTUSblog:
“A federal judge blocked its enforcement, finding that political activists — including two citizens — had a reasonable fear that the law would be enforced against them. However, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit overturned that ruling, declaring that none of the challengers had a right to pursue their claim because they could not show that they were harmed by the new law.”
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/04/detention-challenge-denied/
So, they can’t show that they’ve been actually harmed, but if they’re being held incommunicado in some secret facility somewhere in the world, they’re hardly in a position to meet a lawyer, let alone sue. It also ignores theories that they teach in Remedies class that a preliminary injunction is there to prevent irreparable or potential harm to the plaintiff. The Roberts court seems hostile to that longstanding concept, as well, so …
Catch-22 is now a documentary.
Outraged as I am by this kind of thing, I also somewhat sympathize with the judges. This is a situation where ill-considered legislation passed in a moment of national insanity has come back to bite us squarely in the ass. Judges must construe according to the law, as More famously said, even when the law is ridiculously open to abuse in this manner. It seems quite natural to expect that anyone with any sense of ethics and morality would be able to see that indefinite detention is immoral and un-American, especially a judge who has presumably devoted their lives to the pursuit of justice in the service of liberty and democracy as laid out by our foundational documents…but it’s also the case that allowing sentiment and individual notions of justice prevail over defensible interpretations of the law as written is not something to be undertaken lightly. I’d make a lousy judge. :)
is it just me or is this the epitome of an all-or-nothing chilling effect? no guarantee of anything other than the PTB not actually needing to bother with any sort of excuse.
I have been among those critical about the pace, or lack thereof, of document release and analysis. I have also tried to be understanding of the complexity and difficulty involved in this effort.
I really feel that GG and LP both of whom have histories of integrity need to be forthcoming about some details to clear up clouds over their recent behavior. Unfortunately, in the atmosphere pervasive today, trust is difficult to come by and must be earned each and every day anew. Without new or more complete information it is only natural that people fill the void with whatever they might project into it causing distraction from the goal (see flight ML370).
I guess what disturbs me most is that NSA et al are moving forward apace while time goes buy without the additional pressure of further document releases.
The NSA shit has a sell-by date. Since everybody already knows what they’re doing, throwing out stories like “look what the Brits wanted to do” or “NSA employees have their own Dear Abby” isn’t relevant any longer (if it ever was).
If these “journalists” want to be “fearless and adversarial,” they need to step up their game and start doing some real reporting, following leads, interviewing sources, and not just on NSA shit. We got it -NSA is spying on us. Now give us more activist material, shit we can sink our teeth into rather than what the state wants you to report on.
Regurgitating dated material from a “trove” they refused to share with anybody else is now biting them in the ass because the details aren’t the news any longer.
At this point, the NSA shit is lazy reporting. They don’t have to do any work, all they have to do is “analyze” it and report about it. These “journalists” need to start doing actual work like real reporters.
Nothing substantive changed because of these leaks. The “journalists” need to acknowledge that and move the fuck on. I wonder how the Omidyar 15 feel about being corraled into an NSA pen where that is all they are “allowed” to write about and even if they do write about it, it’s only once a month they get something posted. Isn’t that a form of muzzling?
I also wonder if the billionnaire will get tired of his toy “news site” and just pull the plug on it one day.
I also don’t call a one-paragraph description of a book “reporting.” That book “review” about Palestine was clearly a way to keep the natives from getting restless in comment section. It was a placeholder.
Well, then, put on your fedora, your trench coat, and grab your pad and show these (sniff) folks like Greenwald how it’s done, there, Edward R. Murrow.
For those interested, here is the audio of Snowden defending fellow Whistleblowers and accepting the Ridenhour Prize for truth-telling.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/listen-edward-snowden-defend-whistleblowers
Not really, but thanks. He’s an imperialist stooge.
That’s strange, I could have sworn he was a Communist stooge. That was supposedly why he ran to China and then Russia, I thought.
“That’s strange, I could have sworn he was a Communist stooge. That was supposedly why he ran to China and then Russia, I thought.”
Communists can’t be imperialists?
Well,the future is untold,and the way things are going wacky,anything is possible,but so far?
depends how you define your terms, not that that seems to give most commentariat pause in their poo-flinging.
sorry, OUR poo-flinging.
WOAH. So much for honesty from intelligence agencies. They are liars by trade. I see many NSA & GCHQ trolls leaving comments on this story. Go get real jobs you pathetic “spies”.
Hi Ryan,
Thanks for the article. It is clear that these documents required a bit of study to properly convey their content and import.
Being unfamiliar with the people in GCHQ, MI5, MI6 etc who are tasked with managing British Intelligence efforts, and implementing technologies at a pace with global innovation, I felt compelled to seek out sources that helped me put your article in context. To this end, I found this video wherein GCHQ’s Sir Iain Lobban, MI5’s Andrew Parker and MI6’s Sir John Sawers talk about their secret work with British Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee. The effect of the Snowden revelations were characterized as “terrorists rubbing their hands in glee.” This is a worthwhile view of the way in which Parliament works with British Intelligence services to manage public perception.
Now that my comment finally posted absent the youtube link to the video referenced, I will again attempt to post the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNSBr4RewxM
Thanks for posting this. It’s much appreciated when others here share links to other discussions such as this, particularly when it involves countries other than one’s own.
With regards to the “hayfield” analogy re: bulk collection of data, it’s interesting to note that they don’t search the entire mountain of “innocent hay” they only target the “suspect hay” which is an oxymoronic statement in and of itself. Also comforting is the assurance that they also only hire “good people” to do this privacy violation on our behalf.
As an aside, am I the only one that flashed to all too many Dr. Strangelove’s scenes while watching these kinds of discussions?
“Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence.”
– Leonardo da Vinci
not at all. i, for one, have been stuck in a loop of “deviated preverts” for the ‘better’ part of two decades and counting…
The Intercept should close shop if they are planning to dish out such insipid stories. Mike wolf provides more infotainment with his incisive questions than the whole Omidyar gang with their inconsequential and stale news.
I would encourage you and others who are critical of this article to read the emptywheel entry entitled “The Triage Document” posted today May 1. http://www.emptywheel.net
Thanks for the link. It was the perfect adjunct to this story.
“Incisive?” LOL!
The website seems to work fine. Where’s the content?
Indubitably Kafkaesque.
German campaign for Asyl for Snowden. Site Diditalcourage: One million stickers for Asyl for Snowden in Germany.
The stickers are free, I believe also for foreigners who want to support the German campaign.
http://digitalcourage.de/blog/2014/eine-million-aufkleber-fordern-asyl-fuer-edward-snowden
I tend to agree with the reader at the top of the comments section. If, after the initial bombshells of Glenn’s (and others’) reporting of the Snowden documents at the Guardian (and other venues) hasn’t changed anything, then how is this article meant to do anything but play gotcha! with liars whose job it is to lie?
And we should not minimize the impact of the initial reporting – it shocked the world (if you weren’t paying attention), it outraged governments, it embarrassed governments, it created a ‘debate’ about the Orwellian Overreach of the NSA. But NOTHING has changed in terms of the criminals activities of the American government – because it’s all LEGAL.
Politicians used the reporting to make some hay, but have done nothing to change the status quo.
So, unless, there is something really, really big out there in the Snowden documents – like the blackmail of politicians to do the bidding of crazies running the asylum, then, really, what is the point?
Perhaps those who have been surveilled all their lives who will grow up to inherit the word will have more to loose and make change. Huge shifts in government or public opinion don’t happen overnight. Journalism has an important roll but it is only one vehicle for creating change. For those who only started to be surveilled late in their lives how can they understand what it must be like to grow up with it and mature properly with it in place (mass surveillance).
ur high on govt dick no it illegal fucking brainwash idot
Isn’t it the job of the media to show the public when the government is lying? You’re saying “what is the point of journalism doing the job of journalism? Save it for when it’s even *more* important to practice journalism!” The point is journalism; the point is informing the public; the point is showing the lies. The rest is on us.
That has not been conclusively established yet. Just because there are some secret memos from some government lawyer purporting to explain how it’s all legal does not mean it is in fact legal. We do not know the basis for that legal analysis, we do not know if that basis is plausible and defensible in court, and we do not know if the programs in question actually adhered to the guidance those analyses provided. All we have are unsupported assertions by various officials who have lots to lose if they are found to have been in violation of the law in any respect whatsoever. Until that changes, we cannot conclusively say that the NSA’s operations were and are legal.
you’re so right. i mean, after the first few times somebody got murdered over a cocaine deal gone awry, there was still a reason to call SOME attention to additional similar murders because murder is technically illegal (at least when it comes to most cocaine deals) – regardless of what any individual may think about the inherent moral legitimacy of murder on a case-by-case basis.
further reporting on systemic, oppressively hyper-rationalized control-freakery is clearly pointless because – oh, i dunno, let’s go out on a pattern-seeking limb here – John Fucking Yoo can make torture look perfectly righteous! and what does the ~due~ in due process REALLY mean on a case-by-case basis, anyway?
go away.
Oh pooh. Silly boy, it’s perfectly clear that what can be done with data IS being done with data. As far as what you call trickling not being effective, on what planet doi you reside? Troll.
The extensive and multi-faceted USG/GHCQ troll campaign against The Intercept has been noted for the record. Our response will be necessary and proportionate.
Anonymous
Oh well..
Another basically “non story”..which seems to be the common theme here…with Vanity Fair quoting one of the principles as saying something along the lines of “The Best Is Yet To Come” and then we have a story like this one that will..to not only “many” but to “most” make the vile “agencies” concerned actually seem “Responsible” (like gosh they DID after all try to keep Israel from using the “Data” to KILL people…so see? They’re The Good Guys..”..
So look..I get it…”Its A Process” or…something..but Get To It Please!
Did/IS NSA/Anyone Else interfering in the BALLOT BOX?
Are they Killing People?
Are they Interfering in Political or Worse..much…much..Worse..JUDICIAL Decision making?
Are they USING the “Data” to Manipulate “Policy Makers”?
These…..are the kinds of realities that would make this TRULY nightmarish and would suggest ‘Worse’ revelations to come.
I am getting the feeling that the “Trickle Method” (since after all..its now been stated by those involved that ‘All The Files Have Been Read’) is more about……..sadly……”Business” than it is about ‘Exposing The Nightmare Of A Turnkey Surveillance/Police State’.
Don’t get me wrong Censors and Control Freaks (pretending OTHERS are ‘Trolls’) I am 100% for this “Process”..but the long wait between articles…the Trickle..the mostly….mostly…low level “exposure”…articles like the one above….are NOT…NOT…changing ANYTHING..and WILL NOT!
Literally…Nothing…will change as a result of the revelations remain “Debatable”.
The article above seems almost designed to soft peddle the NSA as ‘mostly doing a pretty good job…gall’ I mean after all…no proof they actually DID hand over the info to their sick counterparts in the “Birching Society”….and again the stated refusal to allow Israel to use information to murder anyone else…well…this article WILL be seen in that light and CERTAINLY will not advocate for “Change” or that this is the truly lethally defective “Policy Product” that it is….nope!
So keep on trickling…nay…..Dribbling….out the stories while HINTING at “Big Horrible Revelations Yet To Come” and WATCH as the greatest potential for AVOIDING Corporate Fascism just……..evaporates….like Occupy…like every “Movement” lately…empty!
Snowden..Manning..they’ve given their lives…and nothing is going to change!
Cryin Shame!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_c7aGeeys
4:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KribK7G3qS8
incase you found that interesting. . .
ecto..
What new ‘revelation’ will convince the u.s. populous to collectively rid themselves of these yet to be published, transgressions? Will it be when we are made privy to individual’s ‘habeas corpus’ rights being nullified, or, a revelation that the executive branch can assassinate you sans any ‘due process’?
‘harp w/ an e phone home’
“Did/IS NSA/Anyone Else interfering in the BALLOT BOX?”
Not unless you don’t think that total lack of transparency and manipulating or lying about pertinent information effects voter turnout and voting results.
“Are they Killing People?”
They follow cell phones around so that drones can unleash bombs on whomever holds the cell phone they are following around. They are deeply involved in the so called “War on Terrorism.” AKA, “killing people.”
“Are they Interfering in Political or Worse..much…much..Worse..JUDICIAL Decision making?”
Yes. They constantly leak or withhold information to propagandize to their benefit. This is a known fact. And, as an example, Judge Pauley’s ludicrous decision was effected by NSA arm twisting or “interfering.” Read for the first time or read again the absurdity of the decision. A decision as brain dead as that one should make anyone wonder if NSA is having their say in judicial decision making.
“Are they USING the “Data” to Manipulate “Policy Makers?”
Same as above, plus they lie to “Policy Makers” all of the time or withhold needed decision making information from “Policy Makers” all of the time. Also the “policy makers themselves lie or withhold: (See policy makers Dianne Feinstein, Mike Rogers — see NSA insiders James Clapper, Kieth Alexander). This is a known fact.
These…..are the kinds of realities that would make this TRULY nightmarish
Agreed.
GO LICK THE GOVT DICK dude privacy is important doing corruption in us is illegaly this is more illegal stuff for both side the govt need to be reform nsa need to be disband or reform kick everyone out and rebuild true us govt instead of anti american govt and british same thing
I know, it’s hard to keep all the conspiracies straight isn’t it. You forgot to mention Benghazi, I’m sure the NSA was involved in that somehow too. It would be irresponsible not to speculate!
Your heart’s in the right place. Don’t despair yet. Even someone as cynical as I am still sees time for this to work itself out. Much better than our chances of seeing success in the realm of climate change, which I am increasingly convinced is simply not going to happen in time to be of much use.
Why do we never get an answer
When we’re knocking at the door
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war?
Question by the Moody Blues
@Wilhelmina
Must give recognition that “Question” is my very favorite song. Timeless.
Thanks for mentioning it.
“Must give recognition that “Question” is my very favorite song. Timeless.
Thanks for mentioning it.”
I am glad to see
that you and me
are “turned on to the same word.”
Please disable comments to all articles on TI. Their inanity distracts from the importance of the messages delivered. And comment sections are a magnet for trolls. Shut them out. Don’t give them a forum. Also on the upside, you save space! Usually I don’t bother to read comments, and I never make them, but in this case I think it necessary. Disable all comments! Farewell.
Please amend the first paragraph.
The documents were NOT provided by Mr Snowden to The Intercept.
The Intercept will take due credit in time for facilitating a matter int he public interest.
Snowden did NOT provide any documents to The Intercept.
We need to get to the business of properly censuring those who illegally (without public consent) are continuing with their assault against the people unhindered.
Indeed, they were provided to one of the founders of the Intercept. I guess you can criticize them for a tiny, unimportant bit of self promotion, but it is essentially meaningless considering Greenwald had to leave his previous gig to continue to publish.
And your final sentence is impossible to understand, due to context. It could be criticism of the press and free speech/public information, or criticism of the current government. So… you sound disingenuous. Your definitions of “public interest” and “public consent” would determine if you’re concerned or just a concern troll.
“Greenwald had to leave his previous gig to continue to publish”. Are you saying that The Guardian refused to publish any more Snowden material, and that GG quit The Guardian as a result? I had not heard that before and am not sure it is true.
It’s not true.
Indeed. Keith Alexander and Michael Hayden need to be arrested immediately. Every day they remain free to go on TV and spew half-truths and utter falsehoods is an affront to our nation’s conscience and an assault on our national values.
While I would not personally choose to question the timeline or the care being put into decide what should be released or when, as I put in a post at my blog at Truthrevival.org, I do not think others are wrong for asking such questions. When the has been a long gap in seeming to most people relevant or salacious stories, it does not help critics that would be readers are offered teases such as “wait for my book, I am saving the best ones for that.” It gives ammunition to those who spin these stories and their motivations in the least positive ways in regards to why greater openness is a good thing, which I believe is important to work to make that view more widely adopted. It seems sometimes those working on such stories do not comprehend that to get an issue like this wrong could easily wipe out the first amendment, what is left of it anyway given the now widespread acknowledgement that reporters cell phones have effectively been tapped for almost a decade now, whether replayed in real time or months later. “Saving” the best bits for a book or having the timeline for releases skewed to a book release gives fuel to the most cynical and makes a easy target for those who would choose to be dismissive of the contents of these stories.
All the more reason to take the time to make sure your aim is true.
“Come at the King, you best not miss.” -Omar, “The Wire”
The constant cross talk is very disruptive. I can hardly remember what the freakin article was about now. Something about GCHQ wanting unlimited access to all of Kilroys toys right?
Please keep telling the truth because I can’t see any other way of defeating the lunatics who have commandeered our world.
Salient point here seems to be that GCHQ honors (excuse me, “honours”) legislative oversight as much as the Enness Say. At least one MP was talking to TI, and that’s something.
– – –
“What have the Romans ever done for us? Gave us a Senate, that’s what.”
— “I, Coramnobis”
And the aquaducts.
As a supporter and a critic of Mr. Greenwald, I have been especially critical of the slow release of NSA-related articles and the prospect that he likely delayed and handpicked the ‘cream-of-the-crop’ of those documents’ disclosures for his new book. However, since Mr. Greenwald had made his case within the TI comment section with some disclosures I had not anticipated would occur, I now fully rescind my past criticisms based upon his fair rebuttal, after what I consider one lapse of his good judgment in a reply to me.
Should he profit from book sales related to the NSA documents? I will let others decide; for me, the point is now moot and I congratulate Mr. Greenwald on this early recognition of ‘No Place to Hide’.
{Quote:
“An Amazon Best Book of the Month, May 2014: In May of 2013, Edward Snowden, a young systems administrator contracting for the National Security Agency, fled the United States for Hong Kong, carrying with him thousands of classified documents outlining the staggering capabilities of the NSA.’s surveillance programs–including those designed to collect information within the U.S. There Snowden arranged a meeting with Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald, and so began the most explosive leak of classified material since the Pentagon Papers, over 40 years ago. No Place to Hide opens with Greenwald’s tense account of his initial cloak-and-dagger encounters with Snowden, then transitions into descriptions of the NSA’s vast information-collection apparatus, including a selection of the “Snowden files” with commentary on the alphabet soup of agencies and code names. And–in typical Greenwald style–the book is packed with his opinions on government snooping, its legality, and the impacts on our Constitutional freedoms. Whether you consider Snowden a whistleblower crying foul on government overreach, or a self-aggrandizing traitor who put national security at risk, Greenwald’s book is thrilling and enlightening, a bellwether moment in a crucial debate. –Jon Foro”
Unquote}
(H/T) https://twitter.com/AndrewDFish
@ Nemo_Est_Insula
I reposted this comment at the top since it is irrelevant here. My mistake was that I left the ‘Leave A Reply’ section open here instead of closing and reopening it at the top of the article page. My mistake and not TI’s.
It seems like we are just being fed the same information re-hashed. The Elephant in the room is – Has Omidyar’s owning this publication taken away any of the substance of the information. Omidyar’s collaboration with USAID and the US money to basically fund a coup in the Ukraine is suspect at the least. While the surface shows that Yanukovych is a criminal who stole the peoples resources one has to question the financial support of Rybachuk. For those who do not know Rybachuk’s background follows a familiar pattern in post-Soviet opportunism: From well-connected KGB intelligence ties, to post-Soviet neoliberal networker. In 1992, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Rybachuk moved to the newly-formed Ukraine Central Bank, heading the foreign relations department under Central Bank chief and future Orange Revolution leader Viktor Yushchenko. In his central bank post, Rybachuk established close friendly ties with western government and financial aid institutions, as well as pro-Omidyar figures like George Soros, who funded many of the NGOs involved in “color revolutions” including small donations to the same Ukraine NGOs that Omidyar backed.—Open Society and Renaissance Foundation—publicly preached transparency and good government in places like Russia during the Yeltsin years, while Soros’ financial arm speculated on Russian debt and participated in scandal-plagued auctions of state assets.) Omidyar now has the only two people with exclusive access to the complete Snowden NSA cache, Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. Somehow, the same billionaire who co-financed the “coup” in Ukraine with USAID, also has exclusive access to the NSA secrets. I so far have been like most readers and have applauded Greenwald and company but I also believe that you are judged by the company you keep and USAID and the US government have proven themselves to be the enemy of the people. I hope I am wrong. I hope we get those earth shattering tid bits of information we have been promised. But I am also a skeptic who is fully aware of the psy-ops our government likes to play and what would be a better one than to have the critics rallying around First Look while the governments starts WWlll over in the Ukraine.
There have already been “earth shattering tid bits of information” (do you know how cute you sound?) but the US populace is busy wondering whether ‘pretend rape’ on Violence-Is-My-Delight TV is too rapey or whether X Kardashian ‘rocks’ a bikini to notice. It is very unfortunate that we are rather stupid.
As for the dubious actions of USAID, The Intercept has already questioned it, to some degree and doubtless will do so again.
But you have consistently “applauded Greenwald,” so you probably already know this and are just testing us.
Cindy
“……As for the dubious actions of USAID, The Intercept has already questioned it, to some degree and doubtless will do so again…..”
Greenwald has been almost completely absent with respect to Ukraine except he did take the time to uphold the journalistic independence of Russian TV after one reporter stationed in Washington DC rightly condemned the invasion. RT is of course a mouth piece for Putin normally (or they would be off the air). However, it’s not quite what mirageseekr would have us believe. Greenwald has no interests in Russia or their recent annexation of part of a sovereign state, or their intimidation of the Ukrainian people with his military on the border. Omidyar did contribute to Ukrainian protesters because as an Iranian American, he understands how important freedom is – and there was certainly no future under the direction of a Russian puppet that rejected closer economic ties to the EU. But Greenwald would not cave to pressure from Omidyar
Greenwald’s raison d’être is proving that the US really is NO DIFFERENT than Russia or China. He has a body of work that goes back several years proving that contention. To that end, he doesn’t give one flying fuck about Ukraine or Russia or China or Syria or Iran and so on (or the people in these countries; their rights, their liberties, or oppression). He is not interested in how sophisticated Chinese intelligence and Russian intelligence has become. In fact, the less we know about how others operate, the easier it is to sell that the NSA is the pariah – of course always couched in civil liberties. Glenn is not interested in the intelligence of other countries or their collection of metadata (etc.) because he is only interested in discrediting the US and to a much lesser extent, Israel. Many of the NSA publications have nothing to do with American privacy at all.
However, marageseekr’s ideas are absolutely absurd (as are Mike Wolf’s). Greenwald publishes what he wants to publish regardless of how much his boss is worth. I’m certain of that.
As Greenwald proved with his publication of a negative article about Israel (by a Palestinian American), he is only interested in two countries in the world – the US and Israel.
Oh, saints preserve us! You mean Glenn published an article on how the Palestinian POV is treated on American campuses, and the author is a Palestinian-American!!
I do realize that, overwhelming, in the Establishment media, analysis of the I/P conflict is written with of a positive spin about Israel, by Jewish Americans or other variety of Zionist. Perhaps you, Craig, are simply in culture shock? (A Palestinian-American! Good golly, miss Molly!)
craigsummers must think that The Intercept would be better published and edited by John McCain. Because John McCain is always the first Johnny on the spot to let the world know how much he – and the world – cares!
“Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) declared Friday that “we are all Ukrainians”” (February 2014)
“I know I speak for every American I say to him today, we are all Georgians.” (August 2008)
Well sourced Kitt – thanks for that. I tend to let McCain’s comments just slide right on by anymore…much like craigsummers.
“……..craigsummers must think that The Intercept would be better published and edited by John McCain…….”
On certain issues, ESPN would keep me better informed than the Intercept. The only article I have seen Glenn publish on Syria is when Israel bombed a Syrian munitions storage facility suspected of containing rockets for delivery to Hezbollah. In a war that has claimed over 140,000 lives, where chemical weapons have been used, where hundreds of thousands of refugees are now living in refugee slums, where the dictator Assad has been accused by the UN, AI and HRW of war crimes, it’s pathetic (but entirely predictable) that the bombing of a military target by Israel is the best that Greenwald can do on this issue.
So yes, McCain could serve as an editor for the Intercept – and it would be an improvement in many ways. How about we just settle on Krauthammer?
Have at it, Hoss! Enjoy your new home. You won’t be missed. Some other prevaricator and mundane repeater of the same shit over and over again will no doubt easily take up your flag of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia…because, as you and John McCain know, “We are all Ukrainians/Georgians now!”
ESPN
“……..You wrote that Greenwald had not addressed the subject……”–Kitt
No, I’m not “flat out” or any other type of lying. This is what you’ve written. Have fun trying to convince anyone that it does not have you saying that Greenwald hasn’t addressed the subject. It’s even worse than that because you trolled and misrepresented what he wrote about RT’s journalist, and you pretend to know exactly what his “cares” are about the issue in general, as if you fuckin’ know.
By the way, after this interaction I’ll not bother to mention your name as a joke or any kind of sideline comment or reply to anything that you write, because I now see that you truly are just a jerk. I’d use stronger language to describe you but decided not to bother.
Kitt
I see the problem here. For some reason I confused what you said and thought you were talking about Syria – so I apologize for calling you a liar. I don’t recall saying that Glenn didn’t address the subject. I stand by what I said, however. Greenwald has no interest in Russia (“…..he doesn’t give one flying fuck about Ukraine or Russia or China or Syria or Iran and so on (or the people in these countries; their rights, their liberties, or oppression)…..”). As I mentioned, he linked to Seumas Milne because Seumas writes in complete opposition to American policies (anti Americanism) – just like Glenn.
Thanks – and sorry again.
“Greenwald has been almost completely absent with respect to Ukraine except he did take the time to uphold the journalistic independence of Russian TV after one reporter stationed in Washington DC rightly condemned the invasion.”
Actually, both greenwald and abby martin had their facts wrong – although admittedly it was a good opportunity to try and cover for Omidyar’s support for the coup, which hasn’t been mentioned since by Glenn, nor has martin ever corrected her mistake.
Dr Paul Craig Roberts is truth-telling:
What chance does truth have when Abby Martin gets kudos from Glenn Greenwald for denouncing Russia for an alleged “invasion” that has not taken place?
For example, Martin’s denunciation of Russia for “invading” Ukraine is based on Western propaganda that Russia sent 16,000 troops to occupy Crimea. The fact of the matter is that those 16,000 Russian troops have been in Crimea since the 1990s. Under the Russian-Ukrainian agreement, Russia has the right to base 25,000 troops in Crimea.
Apparently, neither Abby Martin nor Glenn Greenwald, two intelligent and aware people, knew this fact. Washington’s propaganda is so pervasive that two of our best reporters were victimized by it.
As I have written several times in my columns, Washington organized the coup in Ukraine in order to promote its world hegemony by capturing Ukraine for NATO and putting US missile bases on Russia’s border in order to degrade Russia’s nuclear deterrent and force Russia to accept Washington’s hegemony.
Russia has done nothing but respond in a very low-key way to a major strategic threat orchestrated by Washington.
The entire story that the presstitutes have told about the Ukraine is a propaganda production (source http://www.globalresearch.ca/propaganda-rules-the-news/5372022)
And Kucinich: the CIA stirred up the trouble in Ukraine “and now you’ve got neo Nazis in there” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIwZa2gePHU&sns=em)
And from ZeroHedge: “Behind The Kiev Snipers It Was Somebody From The New Coalition” – A Stunning New Leak Released http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-05/behind-kiev-snipers-it-was-somebody-new-coaltion-stunning-new-leak-reveals-truth
So first US orchestrates the Kiev overthrow, and now the new “leaders” of Ukraine are allegedly found to have fired against their own people – the same provocation they subsequently used to run Yanukovich out of the country and install a pro-Western puppet government. Of course, said pro-Western coalition has not been discreditated (sic) because Ms. Ashton has sternly refused to investigate, knowing quite well how horribly this would reflect on the new Ukraine “leadership” – a government which shot its own people to fabricate the pretext under which it rose to power.
Is it any wonder then that Russia has responded the way it has?”
Why do I feel like our so called independent, “stick it to the Man” journos are participating in a pro-US psy-op? Why have either one made corrections since the truth is now obvious to all?
697 views
28 likes, 2 dislikes
Chris Hedges “The American Public Is Utterly Misinformed On What’s Happening In Ukraine” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtY0OSj_5pA&sns=em
It’s not a secret anymore, why does alternative media have their heads in the sand???
Glenn posted the link on twitter today to this story from The Guardian about Ukraine and Russia and so on.
Quote:
The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country’s east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a “pariah state”.
That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the “masked militants” and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government’s use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.
Continued at link
Sam
First of all, Global Reaserch.com is nothing but an anti American conspiracy/propaganda site. You are going to have to do much more than that for sources.
“……Russia has done nothing but respond in a very low-key way to a major strategic threat orchestrated by Washington……” [laughable]
Second of all, the Russian government illegally annexed the Crimea Peninsula. The host country was not allowed to participate in the referendum before losing part of its country. It was illegal according to the Constitution of Ukraine. The Russians signed the Budapest Agreement recognizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine in 1994. They broke their agreement. Almost no country in the world recognizes the annexation. Russia simply has claimed Ukraine in her “sphere of influence”. Sorry, Mr. Putin, the Warsaw Pact is done. Kuput. Finished.
“…….As I have written several times in my columns, Washington organized the coup in Ukraine in order to promote its world hegemony by capturing Ukraine for NATO and putting US missile bases on Russia’s border in order to degrade Russia’s nuclear deterrent and force Russia to accept Washington’s hegemony….. ”
The Ukraine government led by the Russian puppet turned down closer economic ties with the EU which started the protests. Who can blame the Ukrainian people for opting to get out from under the “area of influence” of Russia? How many countries beat a path for the EU and NATO after the USSR collapsed?
Russia stationed 30000(+) troops on the border while occupying the Crimean Peninsula before the referendum. The same troops have been conducting military exercises on the border to intimidate the Ukraine government. It’s a simple strategy that the half pint former KGB officer has used to consolidate eastern Ukraine under his “sphere of influence”.
“……And Kucinich: the CIA stirred up the trouble in Ukraine “and now you’ve got neo Nazis in there”….”
The Nazi theory is one huge lie promoted by Russia – as was the idea that Russians were threatened in Crimea before the Russian invasion.
By the way, how’s the weather in Moscow?
Kitt
“…..That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago…..”
Seumas Milne is as anti-American as they come so it’s not surprising that Glenn links to an article by a fellow fringe leftist. Does Glenn (or Seumas) even bother to think? What about Russia’s illegal annexation of part of a sovereign country? Apparently to make a point about the US, Glenn is perfectl willing to throw Ukrainians under the bus. This is a classic habit with Glenn just like singing accolades for Russian TV while seemingly indifferent to Russian journalist beaten or murdered by the Russian government. In a previous article, Greenwald quoted political science professor As’ad AbuKhalil (and clearly another anti-US zeolet) about US imperialism:
“……Imperialism is to have the temerity to lecture and hector Russia about the evils of intervention in the affairs of its neighbor, Ukraine, where the U.S. and EU are blatantly conspiring against Russian interests there….”
Temerity indeed. Blatantly conspiring against Russian interests? Greenwald apparently recognizes that the Russian “sphere of influence” extends to sovereign countries adjacent to Russia. In his eyes, annexing part of a country is simply Ok as long as it’s not the US (or Israel) that is doing the annexing. Indeed, how about Greenwald getting off his high horse and criticizing Russian support for Assad where 140,000 people have died? Apparently Syria also falls under the Russian sphere of influence.
You are really a sad kiss up to Greenwald, Kitt while apparently agreeing with the lying Russian apologist.
I have no opinion about what the “Russian apologist wrote, because I don’t know enough about the situation to voice an educated opinion. You wrote that Greenwald had not addressed the subject. I linked to where he had. You were wrong, that’s all there is to it. Pissing about “ass kissing” only highlights that you were wrong, and that you felt embarrassed about it.
Kitt
“…….You wrote that Greenwald had not addressed the subject. I linked to where he had. You were wrong, that’s all there is to it……”
If the best you can come up with is a link posted by Glenn to an article written by someone else, it more than proves my point. I said the “…..The only article I have seen Glenn publish on Syria…..”.
It also more or less serves as a confirmation of how little the US is involved in the Syrian conflict. Greenwald simply has no interest in the political players in a regional conflict absent the participation of the US and/or Israel. Certainly not Russia which has provided weapons for Assad and protection at the UN.
Thanks.
I had no intention to, and made no effort to find “the best you can come up with.” You said he hadn’t addressed the subject. I immediately remembered his twitter post so I posted it here.
So, I’ll gladly remind you once again that you were wrong. I was in no competition with your plea for “the best you could come up with.” You’d do yourself a favor to, at least once in awhile, just admit when you’re fucking wrong instead of hanging yourself two or three times in each interaction.
It’s not a secret anymore, why does alternative media have their heads in the sand???
Hi Sam- there’s still so many who don’t know…even now 05/05/2014
Jamesmmm
“…..Hi Sam- there’s still so many who don’t know…even now 05/05/2014……”
We are all just a bunch of idiots. Thank God for Sam’s persistence. Maybe you can answer this simple question which Sam – the coward – refuses to address:
What international law, basis or right does Russia have to annex the Crimea Peninsula?
Kitt
“……..You wrote that Greenwald had not addressed the subject……”
Now you are flat out lying……
PS Ever thought about running for office? Your resume has all of the qualifications
“Do you know how cute you sound?”; “It is very unfortunate that we are rather stupid.”: Seems to me that Cindy is the shit—as in Cindy is the bomb, Cindy has used irony to make a complex point in a dialogue, which, if you don’t mind, I’d be happy to compliment with a basic rule of PR: if you don’t like the message, attack the character (not the credibility) of the messenger.
Not that again. Yea, Omidyar instigated a coup in the Ukraine and is now forcing everyone at The Intercept, including Glenn Greenwald, to withhold publication of NSA documents.
Better trolls, please.
Unsubstantiated, evidence-free bullshit.
He wasn’t being sarcastic, was he? Or satirical?
There’s a commentator here named B. Mussolini who presents viewpoints that are, well — let’s just say he’s done me one better and had a poltergeist actually comment here, not just tell PBS NewsHour how he crossed the Alps with an elephant.
“Poe’s Law” strikes again.
Though you should have known from the request for “Better trolls, please.” (or am I failing to understand your tone? so meta)
“Unsubstantiated, evidence-free bullshit.”
Short, and to the point. Nothing more needs said until evidence shows otherwise.
Yea, Omidyar instigated a coup in the Ukraine and is now forcing everyone at The Intercept, including Glenn Greenwald, to withhold publication of NSA documents.
http://s1133.photobucket.com/user/PresumptuousInsect/media/scourgeofukraine_zps55c17cb3.jpg.html
(h/t Presumptuous Insect)
Ah, Porninska, you and PI truly made me hoot outloud. Mayhaps Mrs. Omidyar would like a copy?
OK – that WAS funny even the 2nd time around. H/T Presumptuous Insect & Pedinska.
I hope The Intercept has the good sense to hire the Presumptuous One. Her work proves the old adage about the worth of a picture. She could do a take-down of the week’s news in images (and, if we ask nicely, a send-up of a few colorful posters round about here). Forget fiddling… some of us need to laugh while Rome burns.
Thanks you guys! MM, I hope to start blogging photoshops and stuff soon, and will be glad to have First Look’s writing for inspiration! Not to mention all you commenters and old pals, who are always well worth reading.
Omidyar doesn’t need to force anyone to do anything. These precincts are the Shady Rest of the Internet.
Why do you read the article if you are so sceptical of this website’s founder and employees? Read Fox news if you want real facts and answers, don’t come here. Just go away.
I read many articles and many views. I also read many international and alternative news and spend some time on history as well. I was taught that an open mind is a sign of intelligence. I subscribe to neither the left or the right only the truth. Funny how I am attacked for raising a question as a “troll” and then told to go to FOX. Do you people even realize that you sound every bit as bad as those close minded people. No wonder the fucked up policy of pitting the right against the left has worked so well for the powers that be. Whenever people run out of intelligent debate they attack and accuse. Obviously some here did not understand my tone, I was merely questioning events as I saw them. Something the rest of the sheep on this planet would be better off to do. I have my reservations as I said because I understand how psy-ops work and this would be right up their ally.
You told a lot of lies, repeated a lot of bull shit innuendos, connected a lot dots that have no connection, all for the purpose of “making a case” that Greenwald and Poitras and the Intercept are being controlled by “psy-ops” under the name of Pierre Omidyar. You posted zero links to “many articles and many views” that you claim to have read. And then, when your integrity was questioned you posted the above complaint plus more accusations, ending with, “I understand how psy-ops work and this would be right up their ally.” If you’re going to accuse Greenwald, Poitras, Scahill and Omidyar of being under the thumb of your pys-ops, you’re going to have to do one hell of a lot better that the hash and balderdash that you posted if you expect to be taken seriously and not ridiculed as nothing more than a shit-stirrer with nothing but hackneyed trash talk to offer as your “case.”
The Omidyar Oligarchs that rule America have decided to by-pass all democratic institutions and declare cold war on Russia: http://www.thenation.com/article/179579/cold-war-against-russia-without-debate
@redspruce – Could you please provide documentation, clarification, and evidence regarding these assertions? I read the article, but it doesn’t seem to support such overarching claims, particularly beginning with the claim that there are ” Omidyar Oligarchs” in the first place, which the article you cite mentions not at all.
And please, don’t begin with the same tired argument that this is all already self-evident, because it’s not. You made the claims here, now please back them up. Thanks.
“What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
– Christopher Hitchens
Regarding source docs:
There is something about the NSA slides that I find peculiar, and something I associate with a government policy, which is how language imo is sort of used to underpin a notion of there being a ‘connection’, when the idea of a mere ‘association’ being made would be appropriate, to avoid jumping to any conclusions.
The documents makes a point of there being ‘leads’, to characterize the importance of handling the recorded data and the additional remarks. Although ‘leads’ may seem like a helpful word and a word with trivial meaning in the English language, once the idea of ‘leads’ as being *poignant* about something turns into an idea of there being an *explanation* itself by this notion of there being ‘a lead’/’leads’ (data or analysis as “leads”), then ‘leads’ in the sense of being something understood as being a point in itself would lose meaning and could whitewash any prejudice (guilt for example) that were simply associated with a contact and could affirm this prejucide tacitly.
Worse still would be that the juxaposed contacts (crossreferenced contacts) that arise as facts from the mass monitoring by itself is constitutive, of there being the one conducting the monitoring (governments) and implying a form of prejudice if a so called “connection” is to arise as an idea that merit the use of such status or even notion as ‘suspect’. It would be a kind of absurdity in both thinking that the records could even show a guilt by mere association, but perhaps also to think of such as being ‘evidence’ *of* something, when the mere juxapositioning of contacts or the associative metadata is what ended up making such records to become a tool in the first place.
The trope about finding a needle in a haystack is not only inappropriate and wildly misleading when applied for explaining the rationale for wanting to perform mass monitoring or mass surveillance in the first place, but it is also inappropriate and misleading when explaining how they thought they would find anything in the first place. In this kind of absurd situaiton, the notion of “creating suspects of all” seem fitting.
The trope about finding a needle in a haystack is about the implied difficulty or impossibility, of finding such a tiny thing as a needle in a large pile of hay by looking through it. When all are understood as being *suspects* the meaning of the word ‘suspect’ implodes and become meaningless in this context, and it should be clear that rightfully thinking oneself or all others as suspects, governments thereof are being guilty of prejudice with the negative connotation which follow from that. The governments get to preemtively apply themselves as an agent of justice (persecution, read injustice), yet they also get to abuse people’s privacy by directly meddling with it in all kinds of ways. So, the way I see it, it is either an abusing treatment of people in making suspects of all, or it is storytelling being as doubtful as ‘hearsay’ if they find a criminal when it wasn’t because of old fashioned police work that was tasked to solve actual crimes and not being persecutorial trying to belatedly find guilty people or people of interest.
One of the slides announced on twitter for firstlook, has the words “behavioral questions” used there. I think it is important to understand that anything ‘behavioral’ is basicly pointless, except for three things: one possibly being when used as a synonym for wanting to describe someones actions, two possibly being an idea of there being a prescribed behavior (biased about “actions”), or that the subject in question (an individual) has been attributed to an event of sorts (a record). It is the latter that is meaningful in the context of so called ‘behavioral questions’, yet this kind of personification is the juxapositioning of *someone in particular* with *something in particular*, which may not be true or may not be meaningful or may not be understood. “Aggregate behavior” would only be a meaningful notion in an self reflexive way (the use of several indicators), however I think it is likely that the biased understanding of ‘behavior’ as personification and any vilification might have the user mislead and misrepresent to a user what the crossreferencing of contacts with remarks is doing.
Shorter Curious: “It seems as though the data being bulk-collected is being used to support rather slipshod analysis of potential terrorist suspects, implying active association when in fact mere coincidental contact is just as likely.”
Yup. See also “confirmation bias”.
Btw, I see now that I have a typo: ‘juxtaposed’ is the proper spelling, with a “t” in there.
@liberalrob
Not really and if I wanted to write a single sentence, I would probably have done that.
The point of what I wrote about has nothing to do with confirmation bias I think, because what I discussed is not really about anything “psychological” or “cognitive”, the problem I have with working with a random event is systemic and not realizing the absurdity of it has other interesting implications than there simply being mistakes being made in doing the work analysing data. I can also see an potential issue with so called “parallell construction”, taint one element by selectively adding or incidentally adding a of data and every contact is retroactively tainted.
The ‘analysis’ part of what you wrote as an attempt to “shorten” me doesn’t make any sense with the ‘potential’ element I would say, because the “potency” for creating suspects was never really there (it is purely incidental, and the “potency” is an *act* of randomness given the scope of mass monitoring/mass collecting of data) and the idea of there being “potential suspects” is a fantasy as far as having a conceptual understanding of the analysis go. It is as if anyone of real interest were a suspect all along, which confusingly would add up to the same point about everyone being a suspect prior to making an analysis by crossreferencing and adding elements. Viewing all of this as an absurd situation in our reality where people and persons of interest are attributed with the idea of being suspects on a whim would explain both how irrational such cross referencing is, and how demeaning it really is. As such systems of monitoring is intrinsically automated, being “a tool” and all, one need not wonder why this does not raise damning concerns by the people that work with this or want this, because such a tool being “helpful” does not mean the same thing for an investigator or an operator, as the politician or institution that arranged for the system to be in place. One can imagine that an attempt to make a distinction between use and abuse with such a tool becomes just a blur so to speak, because of how terribly pragmatic the operation of it must be, which includes the operators using it, the people maintaining it and the people that sanction the use of such a tool. I think the merits of such a system will basicly have to be understood as being primarily populistic, like with any given arbitrary decision based on the moods and whims of people in power.
Donald Rumsfeld’s idea of “But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know.” is equally irrational to that of relating’ people’ to being ‘suspects'; and is so to speak insane with regard to thinking that *anyone* is a suspect (any talk about there being “leads” now, makes it totally absurd if one understand how there can’t be ‘a suspect’ when treating people at large as suspects). Having allowed such nonsense to seemingly filter through media with no sensible objections is something of a mystery to me (my impression is that this phrase was treated like something comical). The statement is afaik quoted from a press conference in 2002. Rumsfeld’s point in saying this is apparently substantiated with another point about him sort of claiming to have an interest about all reports that he thinks claim “that something hasn’t happened”. Given what one know of the multitudes of abuse by powers at be, be it the power of insitutions (insolence of office), by political power (broad and far reaching initiatives) driving both military power (threats, unrest and violence) and paramilitary forces like police (sanctioned violence on a populace on strictly general terms, in a vicious circle), allowing authorities in general to add more oppotune powers seem wildly inappropriate. And so Rumsfeld apparently likes to fantasize about things, not ulike NSA and probably so like with lots of other states that has a comparatively modern legal system, including Norway and Sweden (I am no expert though on that subject matter). Rumsfeld has been “United States Secretary of Defense” two times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_unknown
Btw, I want to add that the “United States Departement of Defence” used to be called “United States Department of War”. Odd how the words “defence” and “war” in a way is used interchangably. Another oddity that I fondly remember, is finding out that there was a ship around the time of second world war, that had the name “HMS Terror”.
slipshod analysis of potential terrorist suspects,
This is overtime pay rate for many associates at NSA+++et. al
http://www.iocco-uk.info/docs/2013%20Annual%20Report%20of%20the%20IOCC%20Accessible%20Version.pdf
Question of concern:
still can’t get the hang of BQ
This did actually feature on the bbc tv news I think on the Day this report was released (I am not aware of any articles written on it but there must be some). At the time I understood of the 90% figure that police almost always during investigations requested mobile phone data. And also that it was requested almost by default (this is from memory)
oh yes.. http://www.iocco-uk.info/sections.asp?sectionID=8&chapter=4&type=top
and probably an article in the guardian
re: GCHQ going beyond…
I can’t see an issue here, since GCHQ has been accreditted–> http://1drv.ms/1eXrI8Z
thanks play dough–> besides the fact that GCHQ is accreditted, they also have a special relationship with Batman, it seems as though they’ve convinced Batman to spy–> http://1drv.ms/NmA3J9
“Welcome to The Intercept. While we are working out our kinks, please enjoy some pan-galactic gargleblasters while perusing the quirky comments of our always ‘ignited’ commenters. We wish this experience to be pleasant, so please bear with us as we try to figure out the juvenile acronyms and weird accretions the ridiculously asinine NSA material comprise. As always, we welcome your input, but remain cutting edge enough to tell you to ‘shut the fuck up and wait god damn it’ if we choose.”
GCHQ got three heads of Scotland Yard rolled down the square covering for the tabloid hackers and trying to prevent their sloppy work from getting ALL of them arrested in 2005. There were no twisted laws at that time to “justify” the intrusions and collections done by tabloid hacks or GCHQ’s.
Andy Couslon claims he had no pull with the Terror Unit sent to examine News of the World’s offices after the royal reporter was designated the fall guy. Hmm, Tony’s foxes inspected Rupert’s foxes? The police told NI’s execs a LOT about the case as it progressed. Very interesting. I say Murdoch knows ALL about it ALL.
Twenty six (26) days since the guardians of the NSA documents have published anything, as PROMISED to us and to Edward Snowden.
Why are we being told that the best is yet to come, yet there has been nothing for three weeks – three weeks in which these people have been off accepting awards in America – where they would surely have been arrested, and promoting a for-profit book which promises documents we were told we would be reported to us, not sold to us in a book, and we are told that the delays also have to do with a “rollout” of this website in a “more formal version.” What, are we supposed to believe that we need a fancy website to provide us insight into how our governments are spying on us, wholesale, illegally?
Why weren’t they arrested in New York when Miranda was detained in Britain?
Because Miranda was detained in Britain, they acquired a copy of the trove, got to Glenn and Laura who then proceeded to SELL US OUT.
PROVE ME WRONG Glenn, Laura. Let’s hear from Edward Snowden on this one. The US government or NSA hasn’t gotten to him. So let’s hear it from Edward Snowden himself. I want to hear him say that the reporting is being done responsibly, that Glenn and Laura have not sold us out. And I want Edward Snowden to explain to us why there is a delay in reporting while awards are accepted, a magazine is being “rolled out,” money is being made, and a book is being promoted to SELL us these documents.
Perhaps a little explanation is in order: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hLJRMtVmOI
Give us an independent eye on what’s going on. Have Edward Snowden designate someone to ensure his wishes are upheld.
If these people cannot be trusted, then they should be removed from the responsibility for reporting on these documents. Period.
One thing to consider: the NSA is spying on us because they don’t believe us responsible enough, mature enough, intelligent enough to take care of ourselves. We are fighting that attitude, not the actions associated with it. If we eliminate the spying, we do not eliminate the underlying attitude and thus all we do is hide the spying even deeper. I contect that Glenn Greenwald and company have the exact same attitude; that we are someone not responsible enough to handle the information they hold.
I contend, given my intellectual abilities, level of moral reasoning, level of education, and my many years of voluntary work advocating for wolves, the disabled, and for all Americans’ freedoms; that these people are not responsible enough to maintain these documents or to uphold their promise to Edward Snowden.
Prove me wrong. I welcome it. My favorite thing in the world is humble pie – a dish I so rarely have the opportunity to enjoy anymore.
But be careful, if you placate me instead of proving me wrong, I will not be so kind in my retort. And mind you, you are not just dealing with me. I speak for a great many people, people who don’t comment here because they realize how useless it is. I only do so because I know my comments will be read in the future, by those actually seeking to understand the truth of these NSA documents and how they have been handled.
And by the way, to all you trolls; be very careful of what you accuse me of. I happen to know two things; that you are wrong, and that in your accusing me, you so do from your perspective – which reveals to all who care to take the opportunity to see it, more about you than it does about me. So please, go ahead, flame away.
Oh, and Glenn, if you want to talk, you have my email address, my phone number, and my mailing address. I’m willing to talk if you are. But we both know you won’t do that because we both know it will be a waste of time. Don’t we?
Did you watch this?
http://www.c-span.org/video/?318674-1/debate-nsa-privacy-laws
Very good, was posted yesterday. After reading Glenn’s last posts coupled with this it was very helpful.
IMO, these PCLOB interviews were even more helpful.
http://www.pclob.gov/meetings-and-events/2014meetingsevents/19-march-2014-public-hearing
a bit dry… I liked the banter in the other one… I would. Helps to sit through it I find.
Maybe you haven’t had humble pie much because you haven’t yet acquired the taste.
In order to prove your assertion wrong, we must somehow establish an objective baseline of what number of NSA documents must be released and how often. Maybe you could enlighten us with your wolf knowledge and level of education by first arguing what you think the baseline should be, and then ask someone to prove that your subjectivity is “wrong.”
@MW
Also analyse thèse:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/documents/
and Wolf something for free that was overlooked
Mr. Wolf is a whack-a-doodle loon. He recently advised that he inspires many to commit felonies because of his ability to penetrate and see their minds. So you see, they stalk him.
He’s calling in from another planet.
Perhaps a more empathic way of presenting it:
“Our society tends to regard as a sickness any mode of thought or behavior that is inconvenient for the system and this is plausible because when an individual doesn’t fit into the system it causes pain to the individual as well as problems for the system. Thus the manipulation of an individual to adjust him to the system is seen as a cure for a sickness and therefore as good.”
—- Theodore Kaczynski
Well, yes, but I don’t stand ready to accuse Mr. Wolfe of sending package bombs to his “nefarious others.”
But yes, he’s Kaczynski-esque.
“But yes, he’s Kaczynski-esque.”
That the quote was attributed to Mr. Kaczynski was not meant to imply anything regarding Mr. Wolf’s mental health status in comparison to Mr. Kaczynski’s.
The quote seemed to fit as more of a metaphor showing how some commenters at the Intercept attempt to manipulate individuals to “adjust” to the system (most often using labels and mockery) rather than using other methods that are both more mature, responsible, and ultimately more successful in dealing with those whose “thought or behavior is inconvenient.”
No, you had it right comparing him with Kaczynski — a loon with delusions of grandeur.
“No, you had it right comparing him with Kaczynski “
That honor is your alone.
Embrace ….. …..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PdYMitjmh0
Isn’t interesting how Jason Entwhistle’s commentary closely mirrors that of Sillyputty…
“Isn’t interesting how Jason Entwhistle’s commentary closely mirrors that of Sillyputty…
Yes, one can’t be having similar thoughts than others on here now, can we?
The response by Mr. Greenwald below to Mike Wolf’s concerns exemplifies what was implied by Mr. Kaczynski’s quote.
That either Mr. Wolf or anyone else here will learn anything from it is another matter altogether.
You would know, wouldn’t you, “Blanca”!
@El B – No, no…can’t you remember anything? According to you, it was Wilhelmina who was Blanca.
Yes, one can’t be having similar thoughts than others on here now, can we?
Errr. you are slipping SP; you forgot to attach one of your perfunctory quotes.
Honestly, Wilma/Marcolf, El B explained it all right here.
Well yes @JE … Dissociative Identity Disorder was kinda my point … so you must also know about Marcolf? Inneresting you know the history here, and how swiftly provided the link – given your presence here is so fresh. Inneresting indeed.
“Well yes @JE … Dissociative Identity Disorder was kinda my point … so you must also know about Marcolf? Inneresting you know the history here, and how swiftly provided the link – given your presence here is so fresh. Inneresting indeed.”
“Inneresting”? Or, inner wresting? ( Sorry, couldn’t resist. I thought that a self-admitted acolyte of a two-faced god could appreciate a mind-splitting, homophonic double entendre.
OBTW Jason Entwhistle has admitted that he/she is a sockpuppet for SillyPutty. (See the brief exchange between us on the last thread)
You’re quite a case study Wilhelmena … Some people diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder are characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance. They have a sense of entitlement and demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behavior. They have a strong need for admiration, but lack feelings of empathy.
Symptoms of this disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR, include:
* Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
* Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
* Envies others and believes others envy him/her
* Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
* Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
* Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
* Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic
* Interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
* Has trouble keeping healthy relationships with others, easily hurt or rejected, appears unemotional, and exaggerating special achievements and talents, setting unrealistic goals for himself/herself.
* Lack of empathy. They are unable to relate, understand, and rationalize the feelings of others. Instead of behaving in a way that shows how they are feeling in the moment, they behave in the way that they feel they are expected to behave or what gives them the most attention.
Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by an over-inflated sense of self-importance, as well as dramatic, emotional behavior that is in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.
In addition to these symptoms, the person may display arrogance, show superiority, and seek power. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others, when in reality they have a fragile self-esteem, cannot handle criticism, and often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth. Comments and criticisms about others are vicious from sufferers of NPD, in an attempt to boost their own poor self-esteem.
P.S. You’re multiple psychoses and DID mind splitting renders you a clinical cesspool in the DSM … truly, madly, deeply.
What’s it all about, El B?
Is it just for this hateful moment you live
What’s it all about when you sort it out, El B
Are you meant to take more than you give
Or are you meant to be kind
And if only fools are kind, El B
Then I guess it’s wise to be cruel
And if life belongs only to the strong, El B
What will you lend on an old golden rule
As sure as I believe there’s a heaven within, El B
I know there’s something much more
Something even non-believers can believe in
I believe in love, El B
Without true love we just exist, El B
Until you find the love you’ve missed you’re nothing, El B
When you walk let your heart lead the way
And you’ll find love any day, El B, El B
Or…, Do as thou wilt
“Every single idée fixe [as] the expression of a deeply deranged psychic individuality and probably an indicator of an incipient form of mania,” she desperately shouted as her white-knuckled left hand tenaciously clutched at the enchained, diamond-eyed pendant of her two-faced god which cut deeply into the pair of bulging blue arteries that labored to fuel the volcanic winds of her blood red rage.
Ummmmmm…. as I’ve been saying all along – you need to get yourself checked out. In addition to your disturbing combination of psychological disorders the foaming at your mouth hints at a raging case of rabies.
You cannot address my tastes, sorry. You simply don’t know enough about me. All you can do is speculate, and as I have warned, your speculation only reveals your secrets. But please don’t be offended, I’m just passing along what I understand.
There can be no guidelines as to what information is released without knowing what information there is. What you are asking causes me to need to describe my entire proposed methodology for going through the NSA document trove. I will oblige:
The documents must be collated, gone through, and read by at least three people with a broad spectrum of knowledge. Ideally these would be people who are highly empathetic, geniuses, and with backgrounds in computers, psychology, sociology, politics, and any other discipline even remotely related. The reasoning here is that the goal is to find the most relevant information first while connecting the dots of the information presented.
I would also propose that Snowden’s search algorithm be analyzed to ascertain his search parameters in gathering the documents and to see if it can’t be improved to narrow down the trove to a more manageable level for initial reporting.
The documents then need to be visually scanned by these people for relevance and importance. I would suggest three teams each with duplicates of all documents and that the teams be anchored by the people qualified as above, and with their own selection of assistants plus one person selected by Glenn and/or Laura as a check.
These teams should then analyze based on most timely relevant information based on the understanding of the most dangerous possible underlying intent. I strongly urge investigation into moral reasoning and psychopathy of course; but will suggest that it be only one team’s focus, and that other teams focus on alternative theories of underlying reasoning and net effect. It is my strong belie in absence of contrary evidence that the efforts in Ukraine/Syria and elsewhere relate to an effort to start a global military conflict.
The heart of the issue here is of course trust. But the answer to that lies in empathy and moral reasoning. Look for people who reason at Universal Ethics. People like Jacques Fresco. I don’t know of other living examples as they do tend to stay out of the spotlight (or aren’t allowed into it.) But past examples include Carl Sagan, Gene Roddenbury, and others.
I honestly don’t know how hard it will be to find people. I’m in America, and don’t get out much. But the little I do get out demonstrates to me that there are few people who can be trusted with such responsibilities. Screening for psychopathy is paramount. Testing moral reasoning is vital. Can such things be faked? Certainly. And it doesn’t help that in America, people like me are given the same precise diagnosis as psychopaths. Obviously there is a difference between myself and a psychopath, but the APA doesn’t see things that way (which is perhaps why psychopaths populate corporate boards and prisons in equally high numbers.)
Can Glenn restore credibility in reporting the NSA documents? Not with The Intercept. And not with his having entered America without being arrested. And not with NSA documents being offered for sale in a book (Let’s publish classified documents ourselves in a book and see if we can go to New York and receive a prize and not get arrested for publishing classified documents.) Perhaps Daniel Ellensburg or Chelsea Manning can better answer the question as to how Glenn can protect his credibility. But I do know that as long as money is in the equation, there will never be room for trust.
As for proving me wrong…why would you want to do that? That’s what egos do. I am not asking to be proven right or wrong, I am merely stating the results of my research for your consideration.
That’s totally false.
As usual, the people who scream the loudest about wanting more disclosures are the ones who pay the least attention to the disclosures that are made.
We SOLD YOU OUT.
Here you go.
He also said some very nice things today when accepting the Ridenhauer Award with Laura Poitras.
This sums it up for me:
“This decision reminds us that what no individual conscience can change, a free press can. My efforts would have been meaningless without the dedication, passion, and skill of these newspapers, and they have my gratitude and respect for their extraordinary service to our society. Their work has given us a better future and a more accountable democracy.
Edward Snowden
Thank you all for your efforts. They are very, very much appreciated.
Jason E.
The proof is in the pudding not in the eating….
The earliest printed example of the proverb that I can find is in William Camden’s Remaines of a Greater Worke Concerning Britaine, 1605:
“All the proof of a pudding is in the eating.”
The prrof of the pudding is in the eatingIt is worth remembering that, as the phrase is quite old, the pudding wouldn’t have been a sticky toffee pudding from the sweet trolley, but a potentially fatal savoury dish. In Camden’s listing of proverbs he also includes “If you eat a pudding at home, the dog may have the skin”, which suggests that the pudding he had in mind was some form of sausage. THE OED describes the mediaeval pudding as ‘the stomach or one of the entrails of a pig, sheep, or other animal, stuffed with a mixture of minced meat, suet, oatmeal, seasoning, etc., and boiled’. Those of you who have ventured north of the border on Burns Night will recognize this as a fair description of a haggis – “the great chieftain o’ the pudding-race”, as Burns called it in the poem Address to a Haggis, 1786. Mediaeval peasants, faced with a boiled up farmyard massacre, might have thought a taste test to have been a wise choice.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/proof-of-the-pudding.html
Rowan
IS IN THE EATING. Funny how I managed to make that mistake, but it’s obviously how I remember it. Humble Pie anyone?
Dream pudding was delicious ;-)
Well, yes; that pudding needs to be made goes without saying, and the flavor is yet to be determined. The next question to be answered then: just how hungry is everyone, anyway?
That pudding needs to be made is a given. What flavor shall it be is the next question to be answered.
Another observation if you’re conspiratorial: Is this why “they” created modified high corn syrup to add to everything?
You were warned about placation.
Your link to Snowden’s statement is irrelevant. It was a statement made two week ago, before my initial accusations, and before I came to the understanding I have of what I believe is a sellout. You have not addressed my concerns, you have attempted to placate me publicly; a very immature and fallacy-laden attempt.
You then proceed to follow up your “proof” with a subjective first-person statement. You are a journalist, and you know better. What you forget is that I too am a journalist, and I remember that we know better.
Edward Snowden is also caught up in the whole award thing too. Does Edward Snowden understand the entirety of the document trove he handed over to you? Have you been trying to hide behind the fact that you know more about how the NSA works than Edward Snowden, who was merely an administrator who had unfettered access; not working knowledge?
I will stand by my contention that you sold us out. And your efforts here seem to support your knowledge of and participation in the effort. There are very powerful people at work here, people whom you yourself have demonstrated both their capability to reach anyone, and their will to do so to their own benefit no matter what that means. After all, I understand, as others will, that these people are psychopaths, who have no moral reasoning whatsoever. They would go to ANY length to get their way, even going so far as to offer $250,000,000 to a journalist to sell out his readers.
I am not attacking you Glenn (if indeed this is Glenn), I am attacking the possibility that you have been gotten to by the NSA. As a responsible journalist; you should know this. Are you forgetting your training, forgetting your morals; or are we right to question your credibility?
Perhaps the readers here aren’t aware, perhaps they are. But I initially volunteered my capabilities and skills in helping sort through the NSA document trove; an offer I rescinded when I realized it might jeopardize my life. I also offered you my stories – both my dealings with a federal officer whom I am convinced use the NSA tools to nearly end my life and my having been put on the terrorist watch list and my guns taken away then terrorized by a man who had no right to own guns and who threatened to kill me, twice (and had been killing cats and gloating about it.)
No Glenn, I do not take the “rejection” of my stories personally. But the lack of interest, the lack of seeking to investigate a story that could demonstrate the true nature of the NSA surveillance to the people most affected by it: politically active (and mentally ill) Americans, demonstrates to me a lack of interest in the real story here; and a genuine interest in profiting from your luck in taking the leap of faith and listening to some wacko who said he worked for the NSA and had something important to share.
My quetions are valid Glenn. Your answers, thus far, do not satisfy my concerns.
But my time here is at an end, so you will have to face the world now.
Good luck. And remember that the greatest news stories ever told are those which reveal the most hidden truths. I for one would enjoy you reporting on the circumstances of your selling us out; if it meant you reversed your position.
I offer you one piece of advice Glenn: seek to be remembered, not well known. Eternal life is far more important than popularity, isn’t it? Who does the rest of the world know better; your journalistic idol, or Benjamin Franklin? If you are in the situation I suspect; please consider the ultimate consequences of doing the right thing.
also re read this by @LiberalinCalif:
I want to throw out this thought in the context of the remaining Snowden documents and the value they might have in informing the public’s right to know as part of the public interest ( the main justification for publishing the documents).
Having followed the release of these documents from the beginning, We have seen several instances where the documents reveal previously unknown mass collection of American’s data that is done in what seems to be in contradiction to the US Constitution or on the basis of legal interpretations of laws which seem to actually make new law or based on laws that although not unconstitutional are odious in their original intent and purpose.
We have seen how the NSA does mass suspicionless data trawling around the world of innocent persons private information ( which under US law it is permitted to do) and we have seen how the NSA uses GCHQ as a partner or subcontractor to do some of its work in a large part because of the fiber data cables that land in the UK and traverse both the Atlantic and come from and to the Middle east and Asia and Europe.
The vast array of programs that the NSA employs is indeed mind boggling. But unless there are some earthshaking revelations yet to be divulged, the unreleased documents will mostly likely be more technical programs that accomplish the same goals that the previous documents have revealed.
My question, simply as a point of an overview of this entire process, is this:
What could be yet revealed that would be more damning than the already known activities of the NSA?
We already know that they are intent on expressly gathering and holding every bit of digital data in the world and have seen that they are on the way to having this complete capability and are operationally executing operations that come very close to that.
So what do we need to know that we don’t already to understand what the NSA is doing, both in the framework of US law and Constitutionality, and in the context of violating the privacy rights of billions of persons not resident in or citizens of the US?
We have seen that the US Congress and President and Judicial system are slow as molasses in winter and obstinate as mules in addressing these issues, or even understanding their import, so what more will it take?
As of this date there have been zero changes in US law or the practices of the NSA.,
3rd order Zombie? The bit at the end was good when the phone rang. “Excuse me”/cut… ;-)
@LiberalinCalif and @Worzel Gummidge and all:
I did read that post in catching up in comments on the last dispatch. I sometimes feel exactly the same way. Especially since Sat.. I mentioned on CIF (and no I’m not feline16 there) that I’d had my cousin read some stuff – Ellsberg, Greenwald, some others from The Guardian, Froomkin, and Dr. Giroux. She’s an educated, intelligent woman and a fine person. But she is still very adamant – she wants to be safe and safety always trumps privacy. Any attempt to even try to get her to see that all this mass surveillance isn’t really making her safe just falls on deaf ears.
It seems there must be many more who have the blinders on; the outrage just doesn’t seem to be there. I wish I had an answer of what it would take to get folks outraged – but I’m not sure I have one.
Stoking the public’s outrage is a piece of cake:
Out the Great American People™.
They are collaborators, and deserve not to be distinguished from the governments they select.
They hate that. Just ask Jim Crow.
I give a nice visual example of this somewhere in a recent entry on my show, but allow me to explain why we need all of these documents:
Understanding something is different than knowing something. If you, for example, understand electronics, you can build your own stereo. If you only know electronics, you are limited to reading the diagram and troubleshooting someone else’s stereo.
I am one who seeks understanding; as we all should. And that is because of what understanding is. The example I use is a picture. Think of understanding as a picture (they are worth a thousand words, after all…) Knowledge is the pixels. But knowing what the pixels are does nothing for seeing the picture. You have to see the connections; which aren’t visible. They are strictly inside your mind. The pixels represent knowledge, sort of. The more ability you have to understand things, the more pixels you can have to complete a picture. So broader and higher intelligence gives you more and more accurate pixels, and thus more potential for accurate understanding.
In the case of the NSA; the “picture” here has 1.5 million pixels, representing the number of documents. Sorting out the picture means connecting as many of the pixels to create a complete and accurate understanding.
Without sufficient pixels, we cannot ourselves understand the nature of the NSA’s underlying intent. And without understanding, we must rely on someone else to tell us what it means. In this case, we are relying on both the NSA, and Glenn.
So it is important that we fill as many pixels as possible. It is our individual responsibility to decipher the pixels so that we can better and more accurately understand things. I am quite persistent about as many documents as possible being released because I have a mind with greater “resolution”, that is, more possible pixels that I can fill to create a more accurate picture. It also helps that I now believe I understand the people behind the documents, behind the NSA; and thus have a much better chance than most at finding hidden meaning.
This is how, for example, I was able to predict a story here 11 days before it was released. I simply applied my understanding to a pixel that was filled – the ZuneZunio story; and applied it to an unfilled pixel; the Ukraine (which I partially filled in my research on the NED; which is reflected in recent modifications to the Wikipedia article on the NED, which I made.)
I hope this better explains my insistence on the timely analysis and release of these documents. Glenn and Laura and others at The Intercept have a different set of potential pixels than the rest of us. And I’m quite upset that they are failing in their most basic duties as journalists and that it seems that their reasons are strictly financial in nature.
Hi Mike,
You are a bit over the top with the last couple of posts.
After watching your videos, I believe that you are a likable guy Mike. However, it is my humble opinion that your recent posts express opinions that are both insular and highly speculative. Making unsubstantiated allegations against Glenn Greenwald, along with the demand that he prove a negative, is unreasonable to the extreme.
OBTW I saw you latest videos (2). They lack the genuine spontaneity of your earlier work. In fact, they were a bit contrived and manic.
Take care on the open sea Mike.
Please bear in mind that I suffered brain damage, that I am a genius, and that I am something of an entertainer.
On that note, thank you for the complement. I was TRYING to be over the top. That’s the only way to get in past some egos. And it is egos which are responsible for all the shit going on in our world.
As to spontaneity; I only prepare for introductions. The lack of spontaneity may be no more than the real me, rather than the oft-ego-based personalities which I employ in many of my entries (especially those while driving.)
As to the nature of my post; yes, it is intended to insult Glenn and Laura. They were given responsibilities as journalists; not opportunities as capitalists. They have shirked that responsibility so profoundly that even if my allegations are not factually accurate; they are true in spirit. There is far, far too much delay, especially given the circumstances in Ukraine. And I am confident that either way, the tactic is tied to events in Ukraine/Syria – our rulers are trying to start a war.
What American rulers fail to understand is that they are part of the game…pawns. I see this as a very likely possibility, and yes, I am going to voice my opinion quite loudly and I’m going to make sure others start asking questions too. Remember too that I have stated I want to be wrong. My concerns then are voiced on behalf of all those who share in my concerns – paranoia if you will.
If you suffered brain damage, are you sure you’re still a genius? If so, you must have been truly something special before your unfortunate accident.
I was exposed to organic and inorganic lead compounds, primarily, through inhallation while trying to extinguish a massive kitchen fire (approx 1/2 gallon evaporated cooking oil vapor ignited in ceiling reservoir, plus the pan of oil and spot fires nearby – the fireman who arrived first called the ambulance to ask how I put the fire out.)
At the time it was dark. I was calling upon my short term and long term memories to recall the locations of the hose, the bridge over the creek to the shop, and the location in the shop of the fire extinguisher. I was also desperately trying to get help through screaming at the top of my lungs to my neighbors. I called on some personality processes for that.
Blood flows to where it is needed in the brain, and my blood at that time was tainted with neurotoxins, substances which damage and even kill nerves, including brain cells and their connections – where intelligence and memory truly lie (as does understanding by coincidence…)
My brain was affected primarily in the hippocampus and the forebrain.
So when someone like you comes along and accuses me of whatever you are accusing me of, you are actually making quite a fool of yourself while proving yourself sadistic; because I am a genius stuck in a sleeping mind because of how the mind, especially the personality, works. My intellect is untouched; in fact; it has been significantly enhanced since the fire since I have been actually able to physically repair parts of my brain by restoring memories both of aspects of my personality, as well as to memory processing which is coincidence with memories themselves apparently.
Was I something special before the accident? You tell me: two months before, while taking Physic 112 (I took 111 15 years prior) and Statistics 251 simultaneously, I got a B on a test and told myself to study and come to class more often as I needed to make straight As to get on Tier one for my intended application to veterinary school.
What you fail to understand is that I am not gloating about my intelligence – I reason at universal ethics; meaning that I am excited about the fact that all human beings are capable of what I can do sometimes. I have no reason to parade my intelligence around, my intent is to demonstrate that I’m not a nutcase.
Can I suggest you do a bit of reading:
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2009cv02292/215270/
Documents 568, 569, and 583 constitute my Amicus Brief for the intial Proposition 8 case. If you do your research, you’ll find I was the first, though certainly not the last, to argue that gay marriage bans violate the Establishment Clause because people go to the polls in the mistaken belief (intentionally given to them through propaganda) that marriage is a religious institution. That’s a brief I wrote while I was litigating about 6 other cases simultaneously – including my Social Security Disability Appeal and the appeal of my failed federal appeal (I had two cases simultaneously, the other cases were state benefits, and housing benefits related.)
I’m something special in that I have been able to survive on my own with a combination of condition that otherwise render me unable to take care of myself. I am only able to survive because I was a genius and am once again. I adapted, something all humans can do.
OK, I’ll apologize sincerely for making light of your physical injuries. Consider however that genius does not need to declare itself; it is self-evident in the quality of its presentation, as true nobility lies not in declaration of one’s nobility but in every noble act performed. Let your actions and statements speak for themselves.
That said, so far I am not convinced of your genius from your comments to date.
being a “genius” and being a “nutcase” are by no means mutually exclusive. you probably need to work harder at defining your terms with precision.
“Please bear in mind that I suffered brain damage”
Yes, the damage was to the frontal lobe, was it not? Isn’t this the area that deals with higher reason and impulse control?
“that I am a genius”
It is clear that you are cable of some very reasoned arguments. However, I believe that your self imposed isolation has allowed you to develop your perspective in a vacuum. Thus, it is encouraging to see that you are willing to test and refine you views in a fairly critical forum. Although the abuse that you have endured is regrettable, it, too, provides an opportunity for insight into the character of those who believe that their self-inflated level of understanding gives license for such abuse. So much for higher moral reasoning, eh Mike?
“I am something of an entertainer.”
Yes you are. At times, I see flashes of spontaneous comedic brilliance… when you manage to get out of your own way.
“Remember, too, that I have stated I want to be wrong. My concerns then are voiced on behalf of all those who share in my concerns – paranoia if you will.”
Yes, you took constructive criticism very well Mike – far better than most who regularly post in Glenn Greenwald’s forums. I appreciate the fact that you are open to the possibility that your own perspective could be in need of the type of refinement that can only come from civil interaction with others. At best, we can all provide each other with the type of feedback that mutually fulfills our common need for community and truth.
Sorry Mike: 1st line, 2nd par should have read:
It is clear that you are “capable” of some very reasoned arguments.
Nice to see more clarification and less condemnation from all parties.
Regards, SP/JE
I suggest either more or less drugs.
Seriously, though, you’re a very funny guy ;P
:D
Look at the naturally occuring entries on Schedule I (http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/orangebook/e_cs_sched.pdf)
Ask yourself why they are there. Marijuana, for example, has active principles called cannabinoids. We have receptors for these substances in our body and brain. We co-evolved with this plant; which does in fact enhance our ability to concentrate, to meditate, to think beyond the system so to speak.
Thanks for your complement. I’m trying to do all I can to make the message easier to swallow. It’s a hard pill, let me tell you. I never imagined being an entertainer. But apparently that’s the best way to get your message across…or rather, the only way for me. Brain damaged geniuses lack any credibility; especially in a nation that is offended by genius.
By the way, my head is more clear than ever these days, thanks to finally reducing my lipid-soluble toxin load (which builds up because of a genetic defect.) So in effect, I have tried both more and less drugs, simultaneously. More good “drugs” (I prefer the term entheogens) and less bad drugs (i.e. toxins, also known by the FDA as “safe for consumers.”
The culture intelligent enough to produce scathing self-examination of the following caliber should obviously not belittle itself before the idiocracy of the United States. A ‘civil servant’ discussion from ‘Yes, Prime Minister':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOvEwtDycs
Of course there is the possibility that the British, like the Americans, are full of it – and dare not really challenge authoritarianism at all outside music or ‘comedy.’
I have no problem with TI.
My problems all relate to one thing—the interface.
Why is this site different from all other sites?
‘Why is this night different from all other nights?’
Completely unnecessary flourish, but whatever – it aligns nicely with your sensationalist title. Since we all know that requesting access to something is synonymous with”begging.” But hey – gotta spice it up and throw in a nice hook to get those views!! The problem with your rhetoric is that it is not unreasonable for GCHQ to “insist” it has limited FAA 702 access while simulataneously seeking broader access. But to get to the actual substance, some questions for Ryan because you don’t provide enough information to draw any substantive conclusion:
(1) what does NSA supervision of GCHQ consist of?
(2) Is the NSA supervision considered a temporary measure until GCHQ proves its ability to comply?
(3) is the data or programs for which GCHQ wants “unsupervised access,” different than the Triage 2.0 data or programs for which GCHQ is requesting supervised access?
(4) The part about “NSA and SID leadership are well aware of GCHQ’s request for this data and the steps necessary for approval”: did you glean what the steps necessary for approval are?
(5) Was the GCHQ required to inform UK Parliament of its request, and if so, was Mr. Julian Hippert one of the individuals the GCHQ was required to inform?
(6) If we assume this unsupervised access occurred, would there be no protections in place for U.K. citizens (i.e. the equivalent of the U.S.’ “minimization procedures”)?
No. 4 seems especially significant and shouldn’t be buried 15+ grafs into this article like you’ve done.
Apologies if I just missed this, but is the “100s of billions of entries” included in the 3 published documents affixed to this article? If not, why not publish it for context?
Mr. Gallagher
“……Olympic Option was a surveillance program operated during the London Olympics in 2012, under which at least 100 GCHQ operatives were given access to the PRISM system “throughout the Olympic timeframe,” ostensibly to identify potential terror threats……”
Ostensibly……like, Edward Snowden took an “Ethical Hacker’s course” in India ostensibly to protect American systems from potential hackers. Don’t worry Mr. Gallagher, I appreciate the choice of words in your article. “Ironic” would have been another very good choice of words.
‘Alexander was told that Lobban might ask about the safeguards in place to prevent any data that GCHQ shared with the NSA from being handed to others, such as Israel, who might use it in “lethal operations.”’
— Gee … wonder how the NSA knew what questions might be coming down the pike?
This whole situation begs the question about the motives of GCHQ needing “unsupervised access” … Were they merely curious about what data could be mined? Were they curious about what dirt the NSA had on them and their fellow Brits? Were they curious about how deep NSA surveillance had infiltrated the GCHQ? And curiouser and curiouser … EXACTLY WHEN did GCHQ become fully aware of the true extent of NSA mass surveillance – and why – pray tell, did they not raise the alarm regarding the illegalities of these programs ? … WHEN EXACTLY did they decide that collaborating directly WITH the NSA in these mass surveillance secret programs was in THEIR best interests even when it was entirely against those of their nations citizens? And WHO signed off on THAT budget? I’d like to see THOSE memos, pretty please?
The levels of deceit in their direct pursuit of treasonous, secretive, criminal acts against their own nation – and their defiant arrogance in denying it all – and how long they all got away with it is truly mind blowing … as is the fact that to date no other whistleblowers have come forward.
Ms Gun: Okay. First of all, I did not join GCHQ with the intention to be a whistleblower, of course, but when I was aware that the invasion of Iraq (back in January 2003) was imminent, I was a recipient of an email from the National Security Agency in the US, and the email was pretty straightforward, directly requesting GCHQ to help them, basically, eavesdrop on the six swing nations that were currently at the time sitting on the Security Council. The email asked us to get any information that could be used against them in order to achieve a “yes” vote for the second resolution, which would authorise the invasion of Iraq, and the email said, “US favourable goals”. It seemed to me that the US intention was to invade Iraq, even though at the time, publicly, Tony Blair and George Bush were actually talking about diplomatic solutions, but behind the scenes that email immediately made clear to me that what they wanted was in fact war and I felt that what they wanted to do, by bribing and potentially blackmailing those six swing nations to vote “yes” for war, was immoral, illegal and completely against humanity when lives were at risk at the invasion of Iraq, so I decided to leak it.
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmpubadm/83/9031902.htm
While it would be good if there were more brave souls in GCHQ like Ms Gun to come forward in light of more recent events may have something to do with how she was treated. Also the above whistle blower is not that well covered or known by general public in UK. I’m not sure but the leak to which she refers was to the observer (a guardian paper, or was?).. It did not effect how things turned out but shows that sometimes the good people of the UK refuse to stand shoulder to shoulder with USA. The website above is a handy resource for anyone with bags of time who’d like to get to grips with UK politics/government procedure. With the right search you might even find out more about the budget you mention.
Greenwald yields:
http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2013-14/1021
Snowden gave nothing to the intercept. Given that, you might try to avoid explicitly claiming he did. Also, the “[sic]” following the Olympics Option quote is its own error, not pointing out someone else’s. The program name is a proper noun referred to correctly by the speaker and is correctly treated as singular. In fact, the article refers to it incorrectly as “Olympic Option.”
Also, I can’t find anything substantive in the article that hasn’t been said.
The significance of gchq asking for something they would obviously want escapes me. Despite the MP’s protestations, this request does not put the lie to the claim made by gchq that they don’t engage in illegal practices. Hey, maybe somebody could write an article connecting those dots instead of asserting “liar!” and repeating a bunch of stuff we already know.
It’s good to see someone asking the questions that need to be asked, instead of coming here as no more than a fanatic of Glenn, or to seek “fame” through presence in comments.
Keep up the good work. Keep asking the questions that must be asked, and that are not being answered.
To remind journalists and readers alike: journalists are supposed to tell us the answers to these questions:
Who
What
Where
When
HOW
WHY
It seems that journalists have forgotten their most basic responibility. Thank you for helping hold them accountable.
It does stand out as a rather glaring error (or truth), whether Snowden gave any docs to TI.I had thought he gave to certain journalist and film-maker.
Big Data saves anti-capitalism. No free riders, guaranteed.
And herein lies the problem. Who decides what is proportionate and within-bounds when, by definition, spying on everyone is a breach of law? When the entity being “measured” is, also by definition, concealed , what tools are being used to come up with “figures?” When the entire enterprise is secret, who knows what proportion of what we’re being told –if any of it– is true?
Exactly who are the watchdogs and what are they watching?
Excuse me while I go out to “measure” the air in my backyard and then catalog the things I don’t own. Trust me…I’m doing a good job.
MM – Technically you could measure the air in your backyard if you know the dimensions with which to calculate the volume. If you want the weight, you could just multiply the volume by the density at your temperature and elevation.
Joking aside, a more apt analogy might be, “I’m going to go to my pitch-black basement to measure the length of a wall that isn’t there,” or something to that effect.
… or even “I’m going to measure the depth of larchmont’s trollery.”
OWS loves Big Government.
Socialism’s mandated interdependencies must be enforced through big data, and lots of state Working People.
This sort of “legal arbitrage” seems to be a matter of course for the Five Eyes partnership, laundering their respective regimes in a “race to the bottom” of lawlessness. The Five Eyes – EO12333 backdoor circumvents any privacy law, let alone the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution, with complete plausible deniability.
Good on Huppert for talking the talk, but as a Lib Dem, his credibility is not far from that of Keith Alexander.
Aside from that, is it possible that Lobban’s travel (paid for from the public purse) is subject to FoI requests? Perhaps a date of said meeting could be conjectured, and linked to fulsome denials of any wrongdoing.
A Sir is a gentleman is a big brother? Amazing.
Should I start the “WHY AREN’T YOU RELEASING MORE DOCUMENTS NOW?!!!” thread early to get it out of the way of substantive discussion of the actual topic?
It certainly had to be said.
Notice how the regulars have stopped asking that question? They don’t want to lose their privileges of being able to make themselves feel famous by posting drivel on this site.
Good to see some substance in the comments.
“Good to see some substance in the comments.”
The comment that precedes this one in your post almost cancels this latter one out.
As you note earlier: “Thank you for helping hold them accountable.”
So say we all.
For a culture that prides itself on seeing through pretension and artifice, Britain is remarkably submissive functionally toward the deceptive apparatus of US ‘Intelligence.’
I think you’re onto something, Cindy, most of Congress has no such pride of understanding what they do – yet they’re just as adept turning that blind 5eye to the intrusions of Frankenstein’s Big Brother.
Maybe that whole laying down with dogs thing…
It’s the Big Brother of what fund it.
But Occupy understands Big Brother comes with Big Government, so OWS is only too happy to promote funding its Working People.
Larchmont,
Reading your comments reminds me of reading a refrigerator that has word magnets randomly splashed about its door. Your comments are worse than word salad as word salad does not necessarily make one dumber.
Please do not speak of Occupy. I have no doubt you no very little about OWS, and you speaking about it, even in your typically incoherent fashion, is ignorant beyond mention.
correction- “know very little” not no. I need a preview button and more patience.
The Salonik, cognitively slow, progressive left loves the worn catch phrases it latches onto that it thinks makes them look smart (after seeing other progressives repeat them in kind): “short bus,” “Koch bros.,” “word salad,” “spew,” “drivel,” “Molly,” “voting against their best interests,” “Austin,” “Noam,” “SXSW,” “1%,” “99%.”
“…progressive left loves the worn catch phrases”
— Ironic …. this is how many times I’ve counted Larchmont using HIS worn out catchphrase “progressive” along with various forms of “left”…
* Excerpt from The Battle for Justice in Palestine (x10)
29 Apr 2014 at 4:01 pm, 29 Apr 2014 at 2:04 pm, 28 Apr 2014 at 6:46 pm, 28 Apr 2014 at 11:57 am, 28 Apr 2014 at 12:12 am, 27 Apr 2014 at 11:38 pm,
27 Apr 2014 at 11:12 pm, 27 Apr 2014 at 10:23 pm, 27 Apr 2014 at 9:11 pm,
27 Apr 2014 at 7:35 pm
* Passover Greetings from the Editor (x18)
17 Apr 2014 at 8:47 pm, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:40 pm, 17 Apr 2014 at 7:27 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:15 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:57 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 3:00 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 2:33 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 9:42 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 7:07 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 7:50 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 6:42 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 6:13 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 5:54 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 1:51 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 12:58 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 12:10 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 3:22 am, 15 Apr 2014 at 2:57 am
That’s when I realized that on previous posts he was probably working under various other aliases such as “Rev Communete”, “DisenfranchisedRevCommunete”, “squaresville” …. I would’ve counted how many times they word vomited out the same phrase – but I got bored. We’re clearly dealing with someone who is suffering some sort of deep psychological condition … OCD?
In this article are so far only 3 instances, but given that there are only a total of 26 comments to this point, 5 of which are his – I bet there’s a bunch of his stuttering coming our way.
But I suppose the words; short bus, word salad, spew, drivel, and Molly do come to mind… as do troll, freak, OCD, twaddle, and claptrap crap-flooder.
“…progressive left loves the worn catch phrases” – Larchmont
— Ironic …. this is how many times I’ve counted Larchmont using HIS worn out catchphrase “progressive” along with various forms of “left”…
It would have just been easier to say, “I know you are but what am I.”
Oh Wilma, er Blanca, er Marcolf – trying to cultivate yet another sycophantic, co-dependent cyber “relationship” with Larchmont? You two make quite the cute Folie à deux.
Why don’t you two just start your own fantasy bond thread where you can focus your mutual logorrhea on the conspiratorial snail’s pace of the publishing of the Snowden docs, the content, the journalistic ethics of the articles, the dissemination of source material and the ownership of the material and this entire site. I’m sure you could get more mileage from your fave catchphrases too: “hive”, “groupthink”, “bully”, “straw man” and “bzzzzz”. You seem to need the outlet – and validation, even if it is demented and psychotic.
“Oh Wilma… Bzzzzz [drone] Bzzzzz [drone] Psychotic.”
I have got to tell you that you were at the peak of your game when you posted this:
* Excerpt from The Battle for Justice in Palestine (x10)
29 Apr 2014 at 4:01 pm, 29 Apr 2014 at 2:04 pm, 28 Apr 2014 at 6:46 pm, 28 Apr 2014 at 11:57 am, 28 Apr 2014 at 12:12 am, 27 Apr 2014 at 11:38 pm,
27 Apr 2014 at 11:12 pm, 27 Apr 2014 at 10:23 pm, 27 Apr 2014 at 9:11 pm,
27 Apr 2014 at 7:35 pm
* Passover Greetings from the Editor (x18)
17 Apr 2014 at 8:47 pm, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:40 pm, 17 Apr 2014 at 7:27 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:15 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:57 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 3:00 pm, 16 Apr 2014 at 2:33 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 9:42 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 7:07 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 7:50 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 6:42 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 6:13 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 5:54 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 1:51 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 12:58 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 12:10 pm, 15 Apr 2014 at 3:22 am, 15 Apr 2014 at 2:57 am
Now that is fact laden. All other commentary will pale in comparison! ROFL
“I have got to tell you that you were at the peak of your game when you posted this:”
“I won’t ridicule anyone, at anytime, anywhere, just to try and shut them up.”
-Blanca/Wilma/Wilhelmina/Marcolf
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/28/us-takes-break-condemning-tyranny-celebrate-obamas-visit-saudi-arabia/#comment-18792
“Now that is fact laden. All other commentary will pale in comparison! ROFL”
It’s Glen Beck! I love this guy. He is so… whats the word I’m looking for? Beckish… I think that’s it…. yeah.
He used the word: “penultimately” down below… does he know what it means? It does not mean ultimately as he seems to think.
We progressive leftists know this of course. I think it must be a test. How did we do, Mr Beck?
Dunno what planet you are referring to, but it’s certainly not the UK on this one! ‘Seeing through pretension and artifice’ indeed!
quite right!
Here in the UK whether we/it can or not it’s not something I’m aware of either..
[Punk] “a music that rejected rock music of the past for its artifice and pretension”
British Rock Modernism, 1967-1977: The Story of Music Hall in Rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tp1WUj7QDo
MEOW!
Changed my mind, it’s not that far from the truth. Never thought about my Britishness in that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhrDrE4-mI
Obama bows to the Queen, so penultimately The City and its confederate satellite banking systems are making these demands, and succeeding largely because Occupy accepts the personal responsibility and social obligation of beefing up international banking’s enforcement mechanism.
Having unlimited fiat monetary-creation support by the same progressive left that assisted Warburg in establishing Eastern hemisphere communism can only help.
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-203-keiser-max/
quite old now.. try it, if you haven’t already.