The National Security Agency is secretly intercepting, recording, and archiving the audio of virtually every cell phone conversation on the island nation of the Bahamas.
According to documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, the surveillance is part of a top-secret system – code-named SOMALGET – that was implemented without the knowledge or consent of the Bahamian government. Instead, the agency appears to have used access legally obtained in cooperation with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration to open a backdoor to the country’s cellular telephone network, enabling it to covertly record and store the “full-take audio” of every mobile call made to, from and within the Bahamas – and to replay those calls for up to a month.
SOMALGET is part of a broader NSA program called MYSTIC, which The Intercept has learned is being used to secretly monitor the telecommunications systems of the Bahamas and several other countries, including Mexico, the Philippines, and Kenya. But while MYSTIC scrapes mobile networks for so-called “metadata” – information that reveals the time, source, and destination of calls – SOMALGET is a cutting-edge tool that enables the NSA to vacuum up and store the actual content of every conversation in an entire country.
All told, the NSA is using MYSTIC to gather personal data on mobile calls placed in countries with a combined population of more than 250 million people. And according to classified documents, the agency is seeking funding to export the sweeping surveillance capability elsewhere.
The program raises profound questions about the nature and extent of American surveillance abroad. The U.S. intelligence community routinely justifies its massive spying efforts by citing the threats to national security posed by global terrorism and unpredictable rival nations like Russia and Iran. But the NSA documents indicate that SOMALGET has been deployed in the Bahamas to locate “international narcotics traffickers and special-interest alien smugglers” – traditional law-enforcement concerns, but a far cry from derailing terror plots or intercepting weapons of mass destruction.
“The Bahamas is a stable democracy that shares democratic principles, personal freedoms, and rule of law with the United States,” the State Department concluded in a crime and safety report published last year. “There is little to no threat facing Americans from domestic (Bahamian) terrorism, war, or civil unrest.”
By targeting the Bahamas’ entire mobile network, the NSA is intentionally collecting and retaining intelligence on millions of people who have not been accused of any crime or terrorist activity. Nearly five million Americans visit the country each year, and many prominent U.S. citizens keep homes there, including Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Bill Gates, and Oprah Winfrey.
In addition, the program is a serious – and perhaps illegal – abuse of the access to international phone networks that other countries willingly grant the United States for legitimate law-enforcement surveillance. If the NSA is using the Drug Enforcement Administration’s relationship to the Bahamas as a cover for secretly recording the entire country’s mobile phone calls, it could imperil the longstanding tradition of international law enforcement cooperation that the United States enjoys with its allies.
“It’s surprising, the short-sightedness of the government,” says Michael German, a fellow at New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice who spent 16 years as an FBI agent conducting undercover investigations. “That they couldn’t see how exploiting a lawful mechanism to such a degree that you might lose that justifiable access – that’s where the intelligence community is acting in a way that harms its long-term interests, and clearly the long-term national security interests of the United States.”
The NSA refused to comment on the program, but said in a statement that “the implication that NSA’s foreign intelligence collection is arbitrary and unconstrained is false.” The agency also insisted that it follows procedures to “protect the privacy of U.S. persons” whose communications are “incidentally collected.”
Informed about the NSA’s spying, neither the Bahamian prime minister’s office nor the country’s national security minister had any comment. The embassies of Mexico, Kenya, and the Philippines did not respond to phone messages and emails.
In March, The Washington Post revealed that the NSA had developed the capability to record and store an entire nation’s phone traffic for 30 days. The Post reported that the capacity was a feature of MYSTIC, which it described as a “voice interception program” that is fully operational in one country and proposed for activation in six others. (The Post also referred to NSA documents suggesting that MYSTIC was pulling metadata in some of those countries.) Citing government requests, the paper declined to name any of those countries.
The Intercept has confirmed that as of 2013, the NSA was actively using MYSTIC to gather cell-phone metadata in five countries, and was intercepting voice data in two of them. Documents show that the NSA has been generating intelligence reports from MYSTIC surveillance in the Bahamas, Mexico, Kenya, the Philippines, and one other country, which The Intercept is not naming in response to specific, credible concerns that doing so could lead to increased violence. The more expansive full-take recording capability has been deployed in both the Bahamas and the unnamed country.
MYSTIC was established in 2009 by the NSA’s Special Source Operations division, which works with corporate partners to conduct surveillance. Documents in the Snowden archive describe it as a “program for embedded collection systems overtly installed on target networks, predominantly for the collection and processing of wireless/mobile communications networks.”

A top-secret description of the MYSTIC program written by the NSA’s Special Source Operations division
If an entire nation’s cell-phone calls were a menu of TV shows, MYSTIC would be a cable programming guide showing which channels offer which shows, and when. SOMALGET would be the DVR that automatically records every show on every channel and stores them for a month. MYSTIC provides the access; SOMALGET provides the massive amounts of storage needed to archive all those calls so that analysts can listen to them at will after the fact. According to one NSA document, SOMALGET is “deployed against entire networks” in the Bahamas and the second country, and processes “over 100 million call events per day.”
SOMALGET’s capabilities are further detailed in a May 2012 memo written by an official in the NSA’s International Crime and Narcotics division. The memo hails the “great success” the NSA’s drugs and crime unit has enjoyed through its use of the program, and boasts about how “beneficial” the collection and recording of every phone call in a given nation can be to intelligence analysts.
Rather than simply making “tentative analytic conclusions derived from metadata,” the memo notes, analysts can follow up on hunches by going back in time and listening to phone calls recorded during the previous month. Such “retrospective retrieval” means that analysts can figure out what targets were saying even when the calls occurred before the targets were identified. “[W]e buffer certain calls that MAY be of foreign intelligence value for a sufficient period to permit a well-informed decision on whether to retrieve and return specific audio content,” the NSA official reported.
“There is little reason,” the official added, that SOMALGET could not be expanded to more countries, as long as the agency provided adequate engineering, coordination and hardware. There is no indication in the documents that the NSA followed up on the official’s enthusiasm.
The documents don’t spell out how the NSA has been able to tap the phone calls of an entire country. But one memo indicates that SOMALGET data is covertly acquired under the auspices of “lawful intercepts” made through Drug Enforcement Administration “accesses”– legal wiretaps of foreign phone networks that the DEA requests as part of international law enforcement cooperation.
When U.S. drug agents need to tap a phone of a suspected drug kingpin in another country, they call up their counterparts and ask them set up an intercept. To facilitate those taps, many nations – including the Bahamas – have hired contractors who install and maintain so-called lawful intercept equipment on their telecommunications. With SOMALGET, it appears that the NSA has used the access those contractors developed to secretly mine the country’s entire phone system for “signals intelligence” –recording every mobile call in the country. “Host countries,” the document notes, “are not aware of NSA’s SIGINT collection.”
“Lawful intercept systems engineer communications vulnerabilities into networks, forcing the carriers to weaken,” says Christopher Soghoian, the principal technologist for the American Civil Liberties Union. “Host governments really should be thinking twice before they accept one of these Trojan horses.”
The DEA has long been in a unique position to help the NSA gain backdoor access to foreign phone networks. “DEA has close relationships with foreign government counterparts and vetted foreign partners,” the manager of the NSA’s drug-war efforts reported in a 2004 memo. Indeed, with more than 80 international offices, the DEA is one of the most widely deployed U.S. agencies around the globe.
But what many foreign governments fail to realize is that U.S. drug agents don’t confine themselves to simply fighting narcotics traffickers. “DEA is actually one of the biggest spy operations there is,” says Finn Selander, a former DEA special agent who works with the drug-reform advocacy group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. “Our mandate is not just drugs. We collect intelligence.”
What’s more, Selander adds, the NSA has aided the DEA for years on surveillance operations. “On our reports, there’s drug information and then there’s non-drug information,” he says. “So countries let us in because they don’t view us, really, as a spy organization.”
Selander’s first-hand experience is echoed in the 2004 memo by the manager of the NSA’s drug-war efforts, which was titled “DEA: The Other Warfighter.” The DEA and the NSA “enjoy a vibrant two-way information-sharing relationship,” the memo observes, and cooperate so closely on counternarcotics and counterterrorism that there is a risk of “blurring the lines between the two missions.”
Still, the ability to record and replay the phone calls of an entire country appears to be a relatively new weapon in the NSA’s arsenal. None of the half-dozen former U.S. law enforcement officials interviewed by The Intercept said they had ever heard of a surveillance operation quite like the NSA’s Bahamas collection.
“I’m completely unfamiliar with the program,” says Joel Margolis, a former DEA official who is now executive vice president of government affairs for Subsentio, a Colorado-based company that installs lawful intercepts for telecommunications providers. “I used to work in DEA’s office of chief counsel, and I was their lead specialist on lawful surveillance matters. I wasn’t aware of anything like this.”
For nearly two decades, telecom providers in the United States have been legally obligated under the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act to build their networks with wiretapping capabilities, providing law enforcement agencies with access to more efficient, centrally managed surveillance.
Since CALEA’s passage, many countries have adopted similar measures, making it easier to gather telecommunications intelligence for international investigations. A 2001 working group for the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime went so far as to urge countries to consider permitting foreign law enforcement agencies to initiate international wiretaps directly from within their own territories.
The process for setting up lawful intercepts in foreign countries is largely the same as in the United States. “Law enforcement issues a warrant or other authorization, a carrier or a carrier’s agent responds to the warrant by provisioning the intercept, and the information is sent in sort of a one-way path to the law enforcement agency,” says Marcus Thomas, a former FBI assistant director who now serves as chief technology officer for Subsentio.
When U.S. drug agents wiretap a country’s phone networks, they must comply with the host country’s laws and work alongside their law enforcement counterparts. “The way DEA works with our allies – it could be Bahamas or Jamaica or anywhere – the host country has to invite us,” says Margolis. “We come in and provide the support, but they do the intercept themselves.”
The Bahamas’ Listening Devices Act requires all wiretaps to be authorized in writing either by the minister of national security or the police commissioner in consultation with the attorney general. The individuals to be targeted must be named. Under the nation’s Data Protection Act, personal data may only be “collected by means which are both lawful and fair in the circumstances of the case.” The office of the Bahamian data protection commissioner, which administers the act, said in a statement that it “was not aware of the matter you raise.”
Countries like the Bahamas don’t install lawful intercepts on their own. With the adoption of international standards, a thriving market has emerged for private firms that are contracted by foreign governments to install and maintain lawful intercept equipment. Currently valued at more than $128 million, the global market for private interception services is expected to skyrocket to more than $970 million within the next four years, according to a 2013 report from the research firm Markets and Markets.
“Most telecom hardware vendors will have some solutions for legal interception,” says a former mobile telecommunications engineer who asked not to be named because he is currently working for the British government. “That’s pretty much because legal interception is a requirement if you’re going to operate a mobile phone network.”
The proliferation of private contractors has apparently provided the NSA with direct access to foreign phone networks. According to the documents, MYSTIC draws its data from “collection systems” that were overtly installed on the telecommunications systems of targeted countries, apparently by corporate “partners” cooperating with the NSA.
One NSA document spells out that “the overt purpose” given for accessing foreign telecommunications systems is “for legitimate commercial service for the Telco’s themselves.” But the same document adds: “Our covert mission is the provision of SIGINT,” or signals intelligence.
The classified 2013 intelligence budget also describes MYSTIC as using “partner-enabled” access to both cellular and landline phone networks. The goal of the access, the budget says, is to “provide comprehensive metadata access and content against targeted communications” in the Caribbean, Mexico, Kenya, the Philippines, and the unnamed country. The budget adds that in the Bahamas, Mexico, and the Philippines, MYSTIC requires “contracted services” for its “operational sustainment.”
The NSA documents don’t specify who is providing access in the Bahamas. But they do describe SOMALGET as an “umbrella term” for systems provided by a private firm, which is described elsewhere in the documents as a “MYSTIC access provider.” (The documents don’t name the firm, but rather refer to a cover name that The Intercept has agreed not to publish in response to a specific, credible concern that doing so could lead to violence.) Communications experts consulted by The Intercept say the descriptions in the documents suggest a company able to install lawful intercept equipment on phone networks.
Though it is not the “access provider,” the behemoth NSA contractor General Dynamics is directly involved in both MYSTIC and SOMALGET. According to documents, the firm has an eight-year, $51 million contract to process “all MYSTIC data and data for other NSA accesses” at a facility in Annapolis Junction, Maryland, down the road from NSA’s headquarters. NSA logs of SOMALGET collection activity – communications between analysts about issues such as outages and performance problems – contain references to a technician at a “SOMALGET processing facility” who bears the same name as a LinkedIn user listing General Dynamics as his employer. Reached for comment, a General Dynamics spokesperson referred questions to the NSA.
According to the NSA documents, MYSTIC targets calls and other data transmitted on Global System for Mobile Communications networks – the primary framework used for cell phone calls worldwide. In the Philippines, MYSTIC collects “GSM, Short Message Service (SMS) and Call Detail Records” via access provided by a “DSD asset in a Philippine provider site.” (The DSD refers to the Defence Signals Directorate, an arm of Australian intelligence. The Australian consulate in New York declined to comment.) The operation in Kenya is “sponsored” by the CIA, according to the documents, and collects “GSM metadata with the potential for content at a later date.” The Mexican operation is likewise sponsored by the CIA. The documents don’t say how or under what pretenses the agency is gathering call data in those countries.
In the Bahamas, the documents say, the NSA intercepts GSM data that is transmitted over what is known as the “A link”–or “A interface”–a core component of many mobile networks. The A link transfers data between two crucial parts of GSM networks – the base station subsystem, where phones in the field communicate with cell towers, and the network subsystem, which routes calls and text messages to the appropriate destination. “It’s where all of the telephone traffic goes,” says the former engineer.
Punching into this portion of a county’s mobile network would give the NSA access to a virtually non-stop stream of communications. It would also require powerful technology.
“I seriously don’t think that would be your run-of-the-mill legal interception equipment,” says the former engineer, who worked with hardware and software that typically maxed out at 1,000 intercepts. The NSA, by contrast, is recording and storing tens of millions of calls – “mass surveillance,” he observes, that goes far beyond the standard practices for lawful interception recognized around the world.
The Bahamas Telecommunications Company did not respond to repeated phone calls and emails.
If the U.S. government wanted to make a case for surveillance in the Bahamas, it could point to the country’s status as a leading haven for tax cheats, corporate shell games, and a wide array of black-market traffickers. The State Department considers the Bahamas both a “major drug-transit country” and a “major money laundering country” (a designation it shares with more than 60 other nations, including the U.S.). According to the International Monetary Fund, as of 2011 the Bahamas was home to 271 banks and trust companies with active licenses. At the time, the Bahamian banks held $595 billion in U.S. assets.
But the NSA documents don’t reflect a concerted focus on the money launderers and powerful financial institutions – including numerous Western banks – that underpin the black market for narcotics in the Bahamas. Instead, an internal NSA presentation from 2013 recounts with pride how analysts used SOMALGET to locate an individual who “arranged Mexico-to-United States marijuana shipments” through the U.S. Postal Service.
The presentation doesn’t say whether the NSA shared the information with the DEA. But the drug agency’s Special Operations Divison has come under fire for improperly using classified information obtained by the NSA to launch criminal investigations – and then creating false narratives to mislead courts about how the investigations began. The tactic – known as parallel construction – was first reported by Reuters last year, and is now under investigation by the Justice Department’s inspector general.
So: Beyond a desire to bust island pot dealers, why would the NSA choose to apply a powerful collection tool such as SOMALGET against the Bahamas, which poses virtually no threat to the United States?
The answer may lie in a document that characterizes the Bahamas operation as a “test bed for system deployments, capabilities, and improvements” to SOMALGET. The country’s small population – fewer than 400,000 residents – provides a manageable sample to try out the surveillance system’s features. Since SOMALGET is also operational in one other country, the Bahamas may be used as a sort of guinea pig to beta-test improvements and alterations without impacting the system’s operations elsewhere.
“From an engineering point of view it makes perfect sense,” says the former engineer. “Absolutely.”
Beyond the Bahamas, the other countries being targeted by MYSTIC are more in line with the NSA’s more commonly touted priorities. In Kenya, the U.S. works closely with local security forces in combating the militant fundamentalist group Al-Shabab, based in neighboring Somalia. In the Philippines, the U.S. continues to support a bloody shadow war against Islamist extremists launched by the Bush administration in 2002. Last month, President Barack Obama visited Manila to sign a military pact guaranteeing that U.S. operations in Southeast Asia will continue and expand for at least another decade.
Mexico, another country targeted by MYSTIC, has received billions of dollars in police, military, and intelligence aid from the U.S. government over the past seven years to fight the war on drugs, a conflict that has left more than 70,000 Mexicans dead by some estimates. Attorney General Eric Holder has described Mexican drug cartels as a U.S. “national security threat,” and in 2009, then-CIA director Michael Hayden said the violence and chaos in Mexico would soon be the second greatest security threat facing the U.S. behind Al Qaeda.
The legality of the NSA’s sweeping surveillance in the Bahamas is unclear, given the permissive laws under which the U.S intelligence community operates. Earlier this year, President Obama issued a policy directive imposing “new limits” on the U.S. intelligence community’s use of “signals intelligence collected in bulk.” In addition to threats against military or allied personnel, the directive lists five broad conditions under which the agency would be permitted to trawl for data in unrestricted dragnets: threats posed by foreign powers, terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, cybersecurity, and “transnational criminal threats, including illicit finance and sanctions evasion.”
SOMALGET operates under Executive Order 12333, a Reagan-era rule establishing wide latitude for the NSA and other intelligence agencies to spy on other countries, as long as the attorney general is convinced the efforts are aimed at gathering foreign intelligence. In 2000, the NSA assured Congress that all electronic surveillance performed under 12333 “must be conducted in a manner that minimizes the acquisition, retention, and dissemination of information about unconsenting U.S. persons.” In reality, many legal experts point out, the lack of judicial oversight or criminal penalties for violating the order render the guidelines meaningless.
“I think it would be open, whether it was legal or not,” says German, the former FBI agent. “Because we don’t have all the facts about how they’re doing it. For a long time, the NSA has been interpreting their authority in the broadest possible way, even beyond what an objective observer would say was reasonable.”
“An American citizen has Fourth Amendment rights wherever they are,” adds Kurt Opsahl, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. “Nevertheless, there have certainly been a number of things published over the last year which suggest that there are broad, sweeping programs that the NSA and other government agencies are doing abroad that sweep up the communications of Americans.”
Legal or not, the NSA’s covert surveillance of an entire nation suggests that it will take more than the president’s tepid “limits” to rein in the ambitions of the intelligence community. “It’s almost like they have this mentality – if we can, we will,” says German. “There’s no analysis of the long-term risks of doing it, no analysis of whether it’s actually worth the effort, no analysis of whether we couldn’t take those resources and actually put them on real threats and do more good.”
It’s not surprising, German adds, that the government’s covert program in the Bahamas didn’t remain covert. “The undermining of international law and international cooperation is such a long-term negative result of these programs that they had to know would eventually be exposed, whether through a leak, whether through a spy, whether through an accident,” he says. “Nothing stays secret forever. It really shows the arrogance of these agencies – they were just going to do what they were going to do, and they weren’t really going to consider any other important aspects of how our long-term security needs to be addressed.”
Documents published with this article:
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An update on the story 29/6/14
“THE government still has not received a formal report from the United States regarding the National Security Agency’s reported surveillance of mobile phone calls in the country, Foreign Affairs Minister Fred Mitchell said yesterday.
http://www.tribune242.com/news/2014/jun/30/government-still-waiting-us-answer-cellphone-spy-r/
I just read the newest post the followed a couple of links (documents) to read some of the Black Budget doc extract. I note a lot of redacted detail on some pages. Wile this MAY be warranted, can someone please explain a what level or step in the process these redactions were made? I don’t think Mr. Snowdon made them! Thanks.
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A month since the last news. I’d say this story is officially dead.
THEY DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU SAY.
THey are studying you. THey know you better than you know yourself. They are human-terrain-mapping you, learning your habits and patterns, and aggregating this into models of behavior that can accurately PREDICT YOUR MOVEMENTS and ACTIONS before you even know what you are going to do. You are lab rats and you are building your own prison by carrying these devices. Hey, but Angry Birds are cool.
great! be bewed!
Grandma calling her little grandchildren on their birthdays’ is all vitally important to national security. It’s imperative such matters are not held up by annoying matters such as rights and laws enshrined in any constitution or bill.
Hook ’em while their young, and you’ll hook ’em for life. Staring at little black screens all day, typing in every thought they have. Track them in real-time, and watch them grow. And I thought pedophiles were a weird bunch. At least if we one day spark the creation of sentient machines they will have an easy time monitoring their pets.
“Oh my Tamagotchi just died, guess she’s not too resilient to being chased for fun with drone strike.” :mechaSADFACE:
On “No Place to Hide”. Thank you Glenn Greenwald for continued clarity, integrity and courage. Our local book store is almost always out of stock on your book. So glad to know that you, your colleagues, Snowden, Assange, Manning, and etc. are on the planet. Thank you for giving me hope…
This may seem like a sell-out against capitalism; but having been involved in the last US Census in 2010 and the US economy over the past 40 years, I witnessed firsthand the plight of my fellow Americans regarding stagnating wages and opportunities and civil rights taken away by big corporations & government from this, an generation of American citizens.
With that thought in mind, what I am suggesting is the right thing to do.
The entire “No Place to Hide” book by Glenn Greenwald is available in several parts FREE here from http://cryptome.org/(you’ll need to hunt to find them all) with – more or less, it seems – Glenn’s blessing.
I’ll not get into the politics from either side on this, other than to thank both entities and all involved for their work in bringing forth a more transparent America – something that has been severely lacking in our country – and is now, unfortunately, spreading around the entire globe.
Godspeed to all. Best regards, Sillyputty
For example, the first portion if “No Place to Hide” is on the webpage here: http://cryptome.org/2014/05/npth-01.pdf with other sections similarly noted. Regards, Sillyputty
Isn’t anyone going to ask “WHY the Bahamas?” I mean it’s not in the same class as Afghanistan, is it.
What goes on in the Bahamas? – Tourism and off-shore banking.
Bahamas is part of the Caribbean Banking Centre group: Bahamas, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Netherlands Antilles and Panama. This group is the fourth largest foreign holder of US Treasuries in the world, after China, Japan, and recently Belgium, holding $312 billion.
As such Bahamas handles a lot of UST trading that proper countries don’t want to own up to. If China wants to do a major dump of USTs without being seen to do so, it will do it either through Belgium or Bahamas. Likewise if the Fed has to buy up an embarassing dump of USTs, it would do it there first.
So maybe phone calls in the Bahamas are more interesting than “Having a lovely time, wish you were here.”
A lot of spying of other countries, based on anti-terrorism actions. But, still biggest threat comes within…
AFGANISTAN
https://wikileaks.org/WikiLeaks-statement-on-the-mass.html
“We do not believe it is the place of media to “aid and abet” a state in escaping detection and prosecution for a serious crime against a population.
Consequently WikiLeaks cannot be complicit in the censorship of victim state X. The country in question is Afghanistan.
The Intercept stated that the US government asserted that the publication of this name might lead to a ’rise in violence’. Such claims were also used by the administration of Barack Obama to refuse to release further photos of torture at Abu Ghraib in Iraq.”
Thank you Assange, now we understand why you are suffering while Glen is collecting awards in the the US.
It is strange that the readers in this forum while claiming to celebrate the right to privacy, they believe freedom and rights are only reserved for non Muslims.
Truly a monkey can’t see its Ass
It should be interesting to each of us to see if our names are on the list just by our innocent comments about the USG.
“Informed about the NSA’s spying, neither the Bahamian prime minister’s office nor the country’s national security minister had any comment. The embassies of Mexico, Kenya, and the Philippines did not respond to phone messages and emails.”
Well, naturally. Those currently occupying the those positions/jobs, and those hoping to occupy them, all are prime targets for “interception”. And also naturally, the intercepted data is being used for something. Extortion, blackmail, promises of power come to mind.
So it should be a given that everything said, done, admitted to or denied by anyone in a surveilled position, inside the U.S. or anywhere else, must be viewed as suspicious or not believable.
Snowden rocks
The NSA is Big Brother
The muslim “religion” is nothing more than a cover for a terrorist organization
The “mullahs” encourage other people’s son’s to become terrorists; not their own
The Muzzies make the Crusaders look like child’s play
The war in Iraq was all for oil….dahhhh
Open your minds, Americans, to nuclear power….then we can say never mind to the middle east and their psychotic thinking
I don’t see much speculation by the author on the probability that Obama is miffed by Bahamas and other countries with a finger in the lucrative ($) pie of crack and marijuana trade. As you know, the US is actively involved in becoming a big-time pot trafficker by making it legal here. B and others are, frankly, in the way – but valuable policy ideas are not something the US has experience with (nor does it have the capability). Stealing secrets is the only way any progress can be made without intellect.
Snowden leaks look like a counterintelligence operation http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/25/364073/snowden-leaks-a-counterintelligence-op/
Wikileaks defied the NSA/CIA and The Intercept and published the name of “country x”
A good thing for the people of (I’m probably not allowed to mention the name on the “news site”) because they deserve to know, just like Americans, Germans, etc.
Those INT guys love game theory.
In democracy there have to be real sanctions for cheaters. None too big to jail.
Corporates and Government are desperated because my technology is working in fact https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZa_dCjR3aE&feature=youtu.be Sue the criminals https://www.facebook.com/CIDH.OEA There is a connection between Clintons, indian companies, NSA among others http://lnkd.in/b_SW-FM http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/05/19/prince-charles-queen-elizabeth-and-pappy-bush-are-leaders-in-child-trafficking/ The bigger crimes in humanity are done by the ones should protect us https://www.facebook.com/Nobelprize.org?fref=nf Ingeniería industrial como ciencia, nunca se había desenmascarado las Sociedades Secretas siempre imperante en el conocimiento económico manipulado. Mis tesis marcan el futuro más allá de éstas Sociedades Secretas, alcanzando el nivel de conocimiento científico en las ciencias interdisciplinarias de los negocios.
I have to ask one question.
This question is of great concern to me but may mean nothing to others.
Heart Bleed .
Any docs about it?
Why do you not have docs about it?
Why no discussion here about the biggest threat to the net?
It was a very dumb bug in OpenSSL. So dumb it could be fixed really quickly. Updating packages and the work is done. It *was* a big deal before it was made public, because it could lead to information which was supposed to be kept private being leaked , like a website’s private key. Once one have’s a website private key, many nasty things can be done, like impersonating the website, peeking on supposedly “secure” connections…
It was a serious bug. The certificates (documents linked with a owner of a private key) have been replaced, suggestions to change password issued, and life goes on. Just: ” su -c ‘yum update’ ” if you’re using Fedora.
By accident or intent The Intercept published the means by which the redacted country’s identity could be ascertained.
But Rushbridger is an awards winner!
So commentators how do you feel about this man now.
The hard drives, go to the hard drives and see who this creature is.
Try again
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-25205846
WikiLeaks ?@wikileaks 7m
Guardian editor on #Snowden docs “There’s stuff in there about Iraq, Afghanistan, we’re not even going to look at it” http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-25205846 …
58,000
.
There is that figure of 58,000 boys and girls from someone who should know. Where’s Nate?
WikiLeaks ?@wikileaks 4m
Guardian editor on #Snowden docs “There’s stuff in there about Iraq, Afghanistan, we’re not even going to look at it” http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-25205846 …
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-25205846
I will try again.
http://wikileaks.org/WikiLeaks-statement-on-the-mass.html
I will name the unnamed “Firm” in another 72 hours.( Or when the news cycle is right)
It starts with A ends in N and has lots of letters.
http://wikileaks.org/WikiLeaks-statement-on-the-mass.html
Emily Bazelon and Jake Tapper think on CNN that 9/111 truth is =’Anti-Semitic. Google them.What is their background ? Google -The Dancing Israelis. Google ‘Urban Moving Systems” (Grow a pair America)
Oh.
> Obama’s assault on civil liberties …
Obama has certainly done an excellent job as the front to corporations and a police state. His b#llsh!ting smiling cynicism and verbal dodging abilities, even if somewhat clowning, are still amazing. Nixon got his pants on fire for infinitesimally less than what apparently Obama enjoys doing, but then, who would have done a better “undressed-emperor” job than Mr. “Yes, we can” constitutional lawyer, who was associated with Rev. King and Rosa Parks dreams?
Yet, IMO, Chomsky knows well it isn’t really about him. I think it is a combination of technical possibilities, politicians’ raison d’être and paranoia, deeply compromised and manipulated cultures (academia, the media, business) in a decaying society/people.
I find amazing when gringos talk like it all started with Obama or the NSA. They have been doing this all along throughout their history of abuse and b#llsh!t. Gringos, like Angela Merkel, react now when it is about them, but what would you effing expect?!?
All Bahamians have to do is look a little South to the rest of the Caribbean and Latin America to see gringos for what they are. OK, take their tourist dollars, but be true to yourself.
truth and peace and love,
RCLopez
hey I might be a gringo…but dont lump me in with all the bs of the american government
the unnamed country is SOMALIA and i don’t know why they don’t want to name it. very sad, if you want reporting the truth don’t leave some and report some. still not good enough, Somalians did not deserve to know that they phone calls are recorded 100% ????????? not good enough glenn and the other guys.. kenya, somalia, bahamas and so on……..
“It’s surprising, the short-sightedness of the government … that’s where the intelligence community is acting in a way that harms its long-term interests, and clearly the long-term national security interests of the United States.”
How many decades are people going to make this astounding revelation, that should be now be common knowledge, that the United States government is short-sighted when it violates the rights of others?
X == Ukraine
“The NSA documents don’t specify who is providing access in the Bahamas. But they do describe SOMALGET as an “umbrella term” for systems provided by a private firm, which is described elsewhere in the documents as a “MYSTIC access provider.” (The documents don’t name the firm, but rather refer to a cover name that The Intercept has agreed not to publish in response to a specific, credible concern that doing so could lead to violence.) ”
So the Intecept censors itself because Gov’t. fears violence over its actions toward a private contractor. Maybe we need to ask ourselves if violence toward private violations of our personal lives might be warranted.
I think this is the most telling release so far. The testing of a full scale, total global surveillance apparatus.
Makes me wonder if they’re setting up hidden/disguised relay network (is that the right phrase?) in any/every country and all over the planet? … Um… if what I think I just said is what I think I mean to understand – and is true – then – I might’ve just pissed myself! WTF?
^^^ this popped into my head after reading this: http://www.wired.com/2014/05/snowden-cryptoparty
I’m no tekkie whatsoever … but after this this AWESOME backstory on Edward Snowden in the days during his first communications w/GG but BEFORE they connected shed light on what I think a relay is. So even if I’m just talking out of my ass my understanding of what that kind of network might be, or if it’s even possible – this is STILL a great, great NON-GG story about Ed … and the man behind the whistle.
The suggestion is that they are testing technology that can record the full mobile phone
data of millions of people, and then warehouse that data. The metadata, information about location and endpoints of conversations, is used to index into the full conversation. Consider what that information means in the context of the psychological manipulations revealed in the JTRIG release. What would happen in a dystopian future where the government have a full record of everything anyone ever said into a phone or wrote in an email?
If you want to get started with Tor, I would suggest Tails. You just burn it on to a USB stick and boot your computer from it when you want to “go dark”. It might be a bit restrictive for everyday use, but is handy for online banking or contacting the underground.
https://tails.boum.org/
Tor is a network. Are all the links in the network secure? No. Years ago I tried tor when it was first announced. I had a very good firewall operating on the computer and it told me I was being pinged when operating tor. My firewall blocked the response. I backtracked the source of the ping and it was a computer at Harvard university. I typed that address into my browser and saw a list of over 600 I.P. addresses of tor network participants. I would guess that there is a 100% that many hacked versions of tor are operating in the tor network right now. Feel safer now?
The Intercept article states: “SOMALGET operates under Executive Order 12333, a Reagan-era rule establishing wide latitude for the NSA and other intelligence agencies to spy on other countries, as long as the attorney general is convinced the efforts are aimed at gathering foreign intelligence. In 2000, the NSA assured Congress that all electronic surveillance performed under 12333 “must be conducted in a manner that minimizes the acquisition, retention, and dissemination of information about unconsenting U.S. persons.” In reality, many legal experts point out, the lack of judicial oversight or criminal penalties for violating the order render the guidelines meaningless”
I think it is worth noting E.O. 12333 also ‘governs’ assassination .. as well as HUMINT, a sort of ‘catch all’ directive that allows for information sharing across the spectrum. In this regard, it is interesting to compare ‘INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY DIRECTIVE NUMBER 304′ also ‘governed by E.O. 12333
http://www.scribd.com/doc/221214624/Intelligence-Community-Directive-HUMINT
^ “Coordinate with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Central Intelligence Agency to ensure counterintelligence operations or activities conducted inside and outside the United States are aligned”
with the FBI’s National Information Sharing Strategy
http://www.scribd.com/doc/200577950/FBI-gift-to-corporations
^ “The FBI National Information Sharing Strategy (NISS) provides the foundation to shape and implement information sharing initiatives with the FBI’s many mission partners, including federal agencies, state, local, and tribal officials, foreign government counterparts, and private sector stakeholders”
and line this up with Bloomberg reporting:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html
^ “Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence”
There is simply no possible way to manage this intelligently, not only hostile intelligence agencies but criminals will have access to whatever information they might desire, whether via moles or corrupted persons within CIA, DIA, DEA, NSA, and their too many associated contractors to imagine, et cetera, add nausea. If Condoleezza Rice or James Jones at Chevron wants someone knocked off, they have access to contractors with proven track records, Eric Prince is the poster child corporate killer but there are also the Gary Berntsen personalities with much lower profiles and easy access to the information enabling target location, courtesy of NSA & friends.
I would additionally note SIGNIT is not a stand alone element but is fundamental to HUMINT in the digital age although Russia has put a big dent in this by reverting to non-electronic communication and data storage in sensitive intelligence matters, pointing to the necessity of resurrecting ‘old school’ spy craft, so yeah, where all of these NSA capabilities are least useful is where the spy agencies were supposedly intended to focus. Don’t buy the lie Eric Holder or the DoJ Inspector General could do anything about this even if he actually wished to (he probably doesn’t.) Rather listen to Ambassador Chas Freeman:
“Mr. Snowden has brought home to us that, while we Americans do not yet live in a police state or tyranny, we are well along in building the infrastructure on which either could be instantly erected if our leaders decided to do so. No longer protected by the law, our freedoms now depend on the self-restraint of men and women in authority, many of them in uniform. History protests that if one builds a turnkey totalitarian state, those who hold the keys will eventually turn them” -former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Chas Freeman
In the final analysis (my take) ‘In any democracy, ethics, self restraint, tolerance and honesty will always take a second seat to narcissism, avarice, bigotry & persecution, if only because people who play by the rules in any democracy are at a disadvantage to those who easily subvert the rules to their own advantage’
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/04/23/sociopaths-democracy/
^ Sociopaths & Democracy
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/beach+boys/sloop+john+b_20013644.html
We come on the Snoop did we
My fellow spooks and me
Around Nassau town we did roam
Spying all night
Got into a fight
Well I feel so broke up
I want to phone home
So take up the DEA’s trail
See how the NSA sets
Call for the CIA ashore
Let me phone home, let me phone home
I want to phone home, yeah yeah
Well I feel so broke up
I want to phone home
The first look it got drunk
And broke in the Snowden’s trunk
Wikileaks had to come and take redaction away
Sheriff Greenwald
Why don’t you leave them alone, yeah yeah
Well I feel so broke up, I want to phone home
So take up the DEA’s trail
See how the NSA sets
Call for the CIA ashore
Let me phone home, let me phone home
I want to phone home, let me phone home
Why don’t you let me phone home
(take up the DEA’s trail)
Take up the DEA
I feel so broke up I want to phone home
Let me phone home
The poor Cook he caught the fits
And threw away all his wits
And then he took and he ate up all of my scorn
Let me phone home
Why don’t they let me phone home
This is the worst trip I’ve ever been on
So take up the DEA’s trail
See how the NSA sets
Call for the CIA ashore
Let me phone home, let me phone home
I want to phone home, let me phone home
Why don’t you let me phone home
Does the FBI vacation there too?
I thought the number of calls from American tourists in the Bahamas would be extremely high with many pictures being sent, messages, and of course conversations. People on holiday sometimes go troppo, party and lack a sense of appropriate behaviour doing things,, which they then describe to others. Candid moments worth their weight in gold. Life styles of the rich and famous. Life styles of everyone. Everyone.
Watch Glenn’s talk in the Netherlands last night at The John Adams Institute – http://www.john-adams.nl/
~
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/05/13/intercept-hiring/
Sorry, comments are closed for this item.
~
OK, drunken lemurs if “comments are closed for this item” why do you even include a comment box as part of the article
It seems technical people at theintercept either don’t care about posters or they don’t technically know/understand or choose not to implement certain safeguards and basic features
~
I think theintercept should include as part of the http user session the back-end time, the poster’s ip address, https encryption cypher and strength and the time delay from initial protocol negotiation to its end. Of course that should only be shown privately to the individual user right after a user posts a comment and as part of the same http session
That would help people notice if they are being man-in-the-middled and generally help to educate the “unsuspecting masses”
~
RCLopez
$ date
Wed May 21 07:14:35 UTC 2014
The fifth country? Probably Colombia. I understand the reluctance to disclose the information while the peace talks are giving some fruits. But I wouldn’t hesitate to inform the public, for the NSA the target would not be the FARC or the paramilitary groups (who nevertheless count on being spying), but the banks and big fishs accounts.
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT article from Jane Hamsher re: the Wikileaks 5th country Twitter war of words. She says it all … and couldn’t be more fair or provide more enlightenment on the matter.
The Price of Whistleblowing: Manning, Greenwald, Assange, Kiriakou and Snowden
http://my.firedoglake.com/Jane-2/2014/05/20/the-price-of-whistleblowing-manning-greenwald-assange-kiriakou-and-snowden/
Agreed! Thank you for posting her piece.
http://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-says-it-will-reveal-redacted-country-2014-5
The level of frustration is mounting, but let’s hope Intercept sees the danger to the organism and will shortly lance this carbuncle of doubt and cynical assumptions. It’s time to take a dump or get off the crapper and leave the dirty work to those who have the guts to tackle.
Damn Bahamians, WE ALL KNOW THEY’RE UP TO NO GOOD! Good job, NSA, keeping those fuckers in line. I know I’m sleeping better knowing the VERY OBVIOUS threat the Bahamians pose to my peace and security is being monitored.
Seriously, everything this country does anymore is serving to make us an international pariah. And you know what, we DESERVE it.
Frontline’s “U.S. of Secrets, Part II” continues tonite, 10 p.m. ET, PBS. This episode looks at Silicon Valley’s entanglement with the government’s surveillance apparatus.
Part 1 was excellent, I thought. I had never watched Hayden on camera before. I came away with a tiny bit of sympathy for him…he did what he apparently thought was his duty…but the enormity of it is just impossible to ignore. It is clear on its face that “the program” was and is an utter violation of the spirit, never mind the letter, of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; and I’m sure Hayden knows that and knew all along. He’s clearly no fool and doesn’t strike me as a rabid ideologue (unless he’s a great actor).
People who find it so easy to allow orders from superiors to override their innate sense of right and wrong cannot be allowed to have positions of authority in any society that purports to value personal freedom. That’s why “just following orders” was not acceptable at Nuremburg and why we have Clemenceau’s adage “war is too important to be left to the Generals.” Yet we keep seeing military people being put in such situations (Col. Oliver North, Adm. John Poindexter) where there is a clear moral and/or ethical line being crossed, and it always turns out the same- laws violated and orders unquestioned. I hate to say it but it looks like we can’t allow people who achieve high military rank to hold any of the top positions in government; they simply cannot be relied on to push back against what should be self-evidently egregious policy choices of their superiors.
People who find it hard to allow orders from superiors will not be advanced in the present military social economical political system. Get with the program or get out..
I understand you are saying what should be and you are right.
I fear no one these days has a hope in bring reform to the unreformables.
In the case of Hayden, like many others, weak kneed men fall by their own weakness. If you pity a fallen retch so be it. I praise men who stand up, not those that lie down with craven cowards.
Tom Brown was against Flashmen (bullies).
That is what it takes. Stand up to bullies
As a cartoonist I’m thankful for the bounty of meta-b.s. by Clapper and crew. Here’s John Oliver’s animated take: http://www.fizzdom.com/blog/john-oliver-gets-hot-about-spying
Meanwhile in the land of ironic hypocrisy: The NSA has seizures over ANY/ALL of these top-secret revelations/disclosures putting lives in jeopardy by publishing them, chanting their justification mantra of “national security” in every damn press conference and interview … while they deploy drone strikes resulting in how many civilians “casualties” and minimize the deaths of those innocents as unfortunate collateral damage???
… and have been fighting tooth and nail to keep this drone report classified??? While I await their “legal justification” to kill US citizen “suspects” with drones overseas I am already choking on my own vomit: http://anonymousofficialssaid.tumblr.com/post/86355278207/on-the-eve-of-a-critical-senate-vote-and-under
An interesting note – something I haven’t noticed in this article or the commentary…
In past attempts of US citizens to bring legal charges for the blatant violation of their rights under the Constitution, it has been found by the courts that the person did not have “standing” to bring a case. That is, there’s a good chance their personal papers and effects were picked up, but because we can’t be sure they were, they do not have standing and thus cannot bring a case.
It would seem to me that this story along with its documents would in fact give standing to any US Citizen that has made a phone call to anyone in the Bahamas in the periods of time shortly before these documents were captured.
The documents make it very clear that two things are true:
1) If you’re a US Citizen and have made a phone call to the Bahamas to check a reservation, then you in fact had the actual audio content of your voice and call recorded without a warrant.
2) If you’re a US Citizen and were in the Bahamas and called a doctor, lawyer, or ordered a pizza – your conversation was record. I don’t know the legality of the US Gov’t violating a US Citizen’s constitutional right while that citizen is not physically inside the US but I would assume there would be a case there also.
Shouldn’t it be obvious that thousands of US Citizens should immediately bring rightfully legal suits against the Gov’t for what is now a clear and provable offense?
And furthermore, shouldn’t this cause a massive backlash against Obama who in several interviews as clearly articulated that it isn’t true that the gov’t is recording people’s phone calls? I’m continually amazed at how passive the population remains. I bet the administration is also amazed. It’s almost a flashing green light to keep it up. “Look what we’re able to get away with!”
Great reporting as always, and I would very much appreciate feedback on the issue of bringing “standing” to a suit in this case.
Noam Chomsky is never surprised by anything the US government does but at the Harvard Bookstore talk he said that Obama’s assault on civil liberties was something he never expected because there is nothing to be gained politically from it by Obama. So why is he doing it? No one asked and Chomsky didn’t elaborate. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Hannah Arendt believed that totalitarian governments (and perhaps those tending toward totalitarian) engage in many activities which are not useful and are often counter-productive. She believed that this is because the totalitarian impulse is moved not by utility, but by ideology.
^ This is one of the reasons I’d like to see “upvotes” here, though I wouldn’t want them to change comment placement. (or allow sorting by rating)
I can see reasons not to, of course, since even symbolic “support” for some could discourage marginalized voices, but it’s sad that there’s no way to say “good point” without wasting space or adding your own perspective. (you should consider this a +1, upvote, whatever, though)
[missed a slash]
Once upon a time, after WW2, a group of generals decided that military affairs (especially nukes) were too important to be left to civilian politicians. Since then, only two presidents have seriously challenged the Pentagon.
One dead, one resigned.
The US president has no say in Pentagon decision making.
It’s been rumored that Obama’s Day-Timer was found in a gutter with a cryptic message comparing him to JFK and how he didn’t want that endgame. He certainly makes a compliant hostage.
The political gain is enjoyed by those to whom Obama is beholden for his well-being and future public stature, privilege, and tremendous wealth. Those few find the US Constitution an impediment to their expansion of power and control.
for one, obama–not unlike any other president—-isn’t calling the shots. the ones who wield the true oppressive power are cleverly tucked away.
the assault on civil liberties is to intimidate and restrict the masses. it’s about the need to control, from what I’ve read and learned –and continue to learn.
Well well, finally someone nails the tail on the NSA surveillance state donkey.
https://medium.com/message/81e5f33a24e1
” and one other country, which The Intercept is not naming in response to specific, credible concerns that doing so could lead to increased violence.”
@TheIntercept, if you are not going to name this country, who are we to rely on for this kind of information? Kinda disappointing here. First of all, the people of that country have a right to know and secondly the people of other countries have a right to know what the NSA/US is doing to other countries. Please reconsider your position.
From Wayne Madsen’s pithy comment page… http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/categories/20130101_1 linking to the above, but also to this story… http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/18/4123462/new-hacker-scandal-rattles-colombian.html …
Colombia’s Zuluaga received signals intelligence from U.S. Southern Command in Miami. Glenn Greenwald better hope to hell Colombia isn’t the target country of NSA’s MYSTIC program and that “Country X” is actually Afghanistan. In that he censored his latest “report,” by not naming Colombia, if that is the mysterious “Country X,” he would have played into the hands of the current CIA and NSA election tampering in that nation. But he already knows that.
Not too difficult to figure out which country it is.
I know, but that’s not the point I was trying to make.
which country is it?
Who is it then? I have no idea but I’d probably guess either Japan, Germany, UK, ROK, Ukraine or Nigeria…
And why does this:
remind me of being eight in the magic tree house dad built, the one patterned on “Lost in Space?”
SOMALGET? Wow. Who has the Super Duper Decoder Ring and magic invisibility cloak?
Danger Will Robinson! Danger! We’re now entering a SOMALGET caper.
The embedding of the word “soma” is, no doubt, their nod to Brave New World, and a feint-hearted attempt to be honest about where this is going.
Wake me up if anything is left standing when these criminal clowns are done.
We wouldn’t know a front door, legitimate avenue, legal strategy if it jumped up and bit us HARD on the ass, at this point. Make illegality and crimes your go-to methodology and they become habitual. It’s why every part of this has been wretched and riddled with rot from the word go. I honestly see no way out, at this point.
It’s as if Franz Kafka, George Orwell and Philip K. Dick had jointly written a novel, in the place where surveillance, inverted language and legal disorientation come together.
@MM ^^^ Yes! Only way out is all-out technological warfare – internet apocalypse.
‘Unnamed’ in that MYSTIC diagram wouldn’t HAPPEN to be CANADA, would it??? P.O.’d.
The unnamed country is Pakistan, no doubt.
They recorded every phone call everywhere… for the last 12 years.
so they admit to recording every phone call to three houses eh?
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/5/20/snowden_docs_reveal_nsa_dea_teamed
Tuesday, May 20, 2014
Amy Goodman and Ryan Devereaux
Still no arrests or plots foiled with all this spying.
Snowden Docs Reveal NSA, DEA Teamed Up to Record Every Cell Phone Call in Bahamas
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/5/20/snowden_docs_reveal_nsa_dea_teamed
Tuesday, May 20, 2014
Amy Goodman and Ryan Devereaux
Well here are the boys and girls of the DEA. I have been waiting to see them out and about in the Surveillance State. As i have often said the NSA is full of mathamaticians but what is the DEA full of? Probably people who like cars and cash.. This all is getting pretty far from 9/11 I would think – so whats up with the DEA and those upstanding public servants? An enquiring mother might want to know. Where are all thoise federal judges on all of this?
Want to be a Billionaire? Come up with an APP, that can scramble your Conversations, And unscrambler for our frequent callers. ( if you invent this, please send me my share,for the idea)
Silent Circle and the Dark Mail Alliance
More propaganda from the globalist theater of revolutionary conformity. It appears that concerns for an all too predictable ebb of public interest in the NSA disclosures (and, by extension, book and movie deals) requires the direct involvement of Wikileaks’ radical anarcho-capitalist bad boy, Julian Assange (You go boy, name that mystery country! The radical chic are waiting in the wings with their “applause” signs). This strategy of liberal paradigmatic ambiguity is intended to serve a two-fold purpose: it further garners the self-proclaimed public perception that a conscience-driven Glenn Greenwald is exercising an elevated level of journalistic restraint while simultaneously allowing for the disclosure of material that would predictably draw condemnation from US policy makers. It will be interesting to see how Julian Assange (controlled chaos) is portrayed in the upcoming 007 rendition of the Snowden saga. Once again, fiction is becoming the the mean by which the “truth” is being spoon fed to the ignorant masses by those whose enlightened self interest is being amply rewarded by the established order.
You need to take a writing class. Spiro Agnew style rants are long out of date.
Word Nazi.
“You need to take a writing class. ”
My bad… I forgot that puppets like yourself prefer wooden prose.
Ah, now those were classic times, Spiro Agnew’s rhetoric, G. Gordon Liddy’s derring-do, and Martha Mitchell’s carryings-on. Now, that lady could rant. Ah, memory.
Wilhelmina’s staid style is more suited to her other great passion, to wit: fulminating like the Puritan she is against the depraved Evil of pr0n, and calling for all wretches who’ve ‘ere had to do with it to public confession of their abominable sin.
Next time make a coherent point and skip the obscurant BS. Thanks.
your cynical fallacy is apparent….still waiting to see this so-called “globalist theater of revolutionary conformity to be bullsh#t? Good luck with that.
This extract from the above article shows the ignorance of everyday people who think their daily gossip is more important than international security; and actually believe that a government would spend millions of dollars to waste time listening to Jo Bloggs talking about his latest accomplishment.
“Special-interest alien smugglers” refers to human smuggling, which is the number one way to get terrorists across borders undetected.
“International narcotics smugglers” are the best at moving weapons and explosives. Mix this with homan smuggling and you’re lookinf at the greatest threat to our way of life.
…the NSA documents indicate that SOMALGET has been deployed in the Bahamas to locate “international narcotics traffickers and special-interest alien smugglers” – traditional law-enforcement concerns, but a far cry from derailing terror plots or intercepting weapons of mass destruction.
People need to trust their governments a bit more. It’s certainly worth temporarily sacrificing a little privacy, and being able to continue your way of life without being in danger from threat most people couldn’t imagine.
perhaps it has something to do with China’s increasing role?
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/05NASSAU1601_a.html
I know that metadata can be very revealing, but I have never agreed that it is necessarily or intrinsically more revealing than actual content. (With the exception of network analysis) Hence this: “Rather than simply making “tentative analytic conclusions derived from metadata,” the memo notes, analysts can follow up on hunches by going back in time and listening to phone calls recorded during the previous month.”
Metadata has clear limitations.
Sure, Bill, but you have also stated that you’ve never meta data that you didn’t like. :-)
But it’s so useful for constructing trails of evidence absent those pesky limitations the 4th Amendment is intended to impose on unlawful Law Enforcement.
Bill,
Metadata can actually be more revealing than audio content from a phone call. Have you seen the study by those two Harvard students? It’s pretty alarming. You should check it out if you have yet to.
“We kill people based on metadata.” – Michael Hayden
“Metadata has clear limitations.”
Yes, as does a phone book, a dictionary, an encyclopedia, the internet, ad nauseum…if you never use that source of information (or meta data) to find other data.
But they do; and as El B succinctly noted “We kill people based on metadata.” – Michael Hayden
So how clearly unlimited is that?
““All things truly wicked start from innocence.” – Ernest Hemingway
SIdebars weaving through the Intercept’s ‘focus’ would be a refreshing diversion. BRICS? Petrodollar? (hint hint)
http://www.countercurrents.org/escobar190514.htm
The US, as the biggest, baddest bully on the block doesn’t really feel that it has to justify virtually anything it does, but continuing the so-called “War on Drugs” certainly gives it one excuse to initiate and continue this massive surveillance dragnet. If drugs were legalized (or at least decriminalized), regulated and taxed, the illicit drug business would eventually collapse leaving the DEA with little reason to conduct its business in the manner described. But that ain’t ever gonna happen.
@avelna2001
I’m sorry but you have been misinformed. Legalizing drugs sends a message to society that such behaviour is acceptable. Hence drug use would boom fuelling the narcotics industry, and you would see a massive rise in all sorts of violent and dishonesty crime; young people dying or falling prey to the many mental or physical health problems associated with drugs; and eventually financial damage because money is being spent on drugs and not injected into the legitimate industries.
Legalizing drugs is a very slippery slope.
Late to the reply, but no, you’re wrong methinks. Research the outcomes of decriminalization of drugs in Portugal. Much better outcomes than the US “War on Drugs”.
GG’s judgement has to be respected.
Uhh, no. Gatekeepers can never be respected or trusted.
The Bahamian government is seeking an “explanation” from America.
http://www.thenassauguardian.com/news/47512
In a world that isn’t unjust and immoral, they would be pressing charges, and those charges would mean something.
There are 3 or 4 other Bahamian journals and only the Nassau Guardian chose to report on this. One would think that it would be a big story there.
When is the NSA going to realize that its actions are going to LEAD TO more terrorism, not prevent it?
Looks like the only way for this intrusion to end is to pray for a huge solar flare or EMP.
What a sham! This crooked empire is actually trying to run the world. No place is off limits.
Speaking of adversarial journalism, there’s this today – https://www.truthdig.com/report/print/point_of_source_protection_law_wouldnt_protect_manning_snowden_20140519
Good point.
Here is a supporting link:
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/04/shielding-people-from-independent.html#more
Thanks Lyra1, an excellent article.
Schumer needs a schu thrown at his head.
Ha! Ha! And those cosponsors numbering 23.
If S. 987 is passed into law, Glenn will probably be unable to safely enter the US again.
http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/987?q={%22search%22%3A[%22S.+987%22]}
Schumer and most of congress need to be removed. We the people need to make it clear to the elite and their puppets (police, media, military, NSA) that we are done. Choose your side wisely as the fight is coming. “I was just doing my job” won’t cut it.
The Free Flow of Information Act.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA….HOHOHOHOHOHOHOH…HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE…HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The hubris of these motherfuckers is breathtaking…notwithstanding their mockery.
note to self…
Add to list of absurd Congressional bill names that will go down in infamy.
The Patriot Act
The Freedom Act
The Freeflow of Information Act
coming soon. … The Freedom to Breath Act.
Never forget the Mann Act.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/242/470/case.html
– – –
“That’s the slovenly way in which these Acts are always drawn. However, cheer up, it’ll be all right. I’ll have it altered next session. Now, let’s see about your execution – will after luncheon suit you? Can you wait till then?”
—W.S. Gilbert, The Mikado
I don’t know t what we would all do
without the Fatherland protecting us all.
I feel so safe.
Sorry Bahamas, as long as technology keeps growing, Do you really think the power hungry politicians are going to stop spying on each other and the people, to get dirt on them for there elections. As long as there is tax dollars sent to the government there will be the NSA and they will get stronger as time goes on. So I’m sure they will definitely continue spying on us.
They will tell us that you sheep, we ill stop watching you, but the fact is as long as tax dollars are collected it will continue I have been using http://Lookseek.com for about a year the non tracking private search engine to protect my privacy.
Way to go Obama Admin. Accuse the Chinese of spying another time. Effing chumps.
Glen, looks like you are now using the Snowden files for profiteering.
Your constant rejection of not revealing the information due to security concerns seems to have now been compromised. You are turning into the rest of them.
You seem to swallow the security excuse and choose to hide the name of the other country.
Or do you believe that other people have less rights and therefore do not deserve the privacy you claim to be the right of all.
Lyra, do you give a SCHIT that your gov has a camera up your arse? Or do you normally expect to ‘put out’ over the cost of a dinner date.
WAKE UP. Glenn and Edward are the only ones who CARE about what is being done to us ALL.
Wikileaks have said it.
No Americans have been killed.
You need to wake up. Rights are not just for hypocryts
Do you seriously believe that intelligence, law enforcement and poltical officials all over the world deserve to be put in danger because you think some radicalists deserve to know that the West is monitoring them?! Go live outside of your country’s safe borders and then tell me you’ve got a problem with international governments trying to keep you safe. Pathetic.
Whose pathetic now.
Hypocrite
Oh please. You know very well if that other country was revealed – which is undoubtedly a Muslim nation – and riots broke out, or the US embassy or other Americans were attacked as a result, that that would be all the excuse US authorities would need to full persecute and prosecute GG, The Intercept, and any other undesirables they wanted to link to the situation. Already the main PR mantra for the security state is that these leaks are “endangering lives and national security” despite lack of any such evidence, imagine what they’d do if they had some…
@Daldude… exactly what the NSA might be setting up. GG needs to now question if the NSA ever says, “Sure – print it, no lives in jeopardy.” … then the shoe will really drop and every msm media outlet between here and Mars will breaking in with his and ES’s burning effigies 24-7 … while the USG negotiates to broadcast their executions on Pay-Per-View.
I’m not entirely convinced though that the other country is Muslim. I understand this is the overwhelming consensus and I may be proven wrong – but I can think of a few others that are equally vulnerable and they are non-Islamic. All in due time I suppose…
More idiotic troll comments please.
Again I thank you at The Intercept for publishing this article.
In reading these comments, I am disheartened. Rather than focusing on the greater message, the comment writers speculate in detail regarding the name of the other pilot test mass surveillance nation. As though that somehow changes the horror that the US Government is conducting literally global mass surveillance on an unwilling and uninformed population of international citizens, without any consideration of their fundamental and inalienable rights to privacy and often clearly violating due process of law.
“Far from hyperbole, that is the literal, explicitly stated aim of the surveillance state: to collect, store, monitor, and analyze all electronic communication by all people around the globe.” “No Place to Hide, Glenn Greenwald, 1st Edition, 2014, Metropolitan Books, Henry Holt and Company, LLC, p94.
Yeah…with US taxpayer dollars to protect you from a bogeyman “terror” threat like a singular marijuana dealer.
“Instead, an internal NSA presentation from 2013 recounts with pride how analysts used SOMALGET to locate an individual who “arranged Mexico-to-United States marijuana shipments” through the U.S. Postal Service.”
The only terrorists I can discern from all of this evidence presented by Edward Snowden is an over-reaching US Government with United Nations backing intent upon revoking the privacy of all citizens on Planet Earth.
So…what can we do to stop this bullshit? It is time to consider real solutions as opposed to more “executive administrative correction” that piles insult upon injury by doing, in effect, nothing.
I basically agree 100% with your post.
I too am disheartened by the staggering level(s) of “Public Apathy”….one could, in fact, accurately call it “Rabid Apathy”..because its more…MUCH more than mere “Lack Of Action” it is in fact “INTENTIONAL” lack of action…Rejection…of action.
But here is where I must..sorry..”Challenge” you personally;
There is but ONE (1) form of Protest that not only “Has A Real Hope Of Effecting Real Change Quickly”…but that WILL..to an actual Moral Certainty…Work..to effect rapid and very….Very…Real…Change;
CITIZEN BASED ECONOMIC SANCTIONS!
Against the “Bureaucratic Class” and their “Corporate Partners”.
Sadly…tragically…the Board rooms and Committee rooms of the American Bureaucratic Class and Corporate Partners…are chock full of vicious individuals who KNOW the reality that is lost on the public;
“Continued Payment = Approval (Of Product Or Policy)!”
Its amazing that the U.S. Government..or ANY Corporate Entity..knows so well what the Public has forgotten or …sadly..”Refuses To Remember” out of pure rationalization and fear….that Sanctions..that Money…is the Key.
The Government, the Bureaucratic Class..are now almost “Totally”..”Fine and Fee Based”. Seeking ANY reason they can..generating Law after Law after Law and in concert with “Private Contractor Collection Agencies” are now DEDICATED to finding “Revenue” by literally “Any Means Necessary”.
Even so much of this Security/Surveillance State nightmare is IN FACT…a “Product” used to generate..ultimately…”Revenue Recovery” for a multitude of “Agencies” and their Cubicle Dwelling Maggots …oops…sorry…the “Public Sector Employees”.
Snowden called it “Turnkey Tyranny”…but the grim tragic nightmare is that in league with the “Technology” and the now overt and unequivocal…..irrefutable….reality that the Bureaucratic Class is Fanatically willing to “Use” the technology….is another “Turnkey” reality I’ll call “Inconvenience”.
Inconvenience is the “Key” that is being turned in the lock of Corporate Fascism along with the “Technology”.
So here is my question to you;
Are YOU..ready…willing..to be “Inconvenienced” by “Having to..”….Not Pay?
Are you?
The overwhelming majority of “Americans” (in name only) are not even REMOTELY willing to face the fear or “Inconvenience” of doing what “Their”….”Government”…does to ANY Nation OR Individual who opposes them literally “Immediately”;
Imposes Economic Sanctions.
See…something thats being “Left Out” of the “Debate” en total….is the reality…again quite irrefutable…that Unlike…Nazism..Communism…Unlike the “Ideologies” of Franco’s Spain..Stalins Russia…Hitlers Germany…Mussolini’s Italy…or China or Korea or? Or? Or?…..is that their “Ideologies” were Fanaticism based on “Directed Hate” or Fear or some other VERY…”Directed”…targeted…Ideology.
America on the other hand…is perhaps the First…Nation…to become in essence “Totalitarian” SANS…any real “Ideology” OTHER THAN MONEY.
Money…is the Motivating factor for the overwhelming majority of everything from Drone “Pilots” to NSA cubicle dwelling maggots to the Military Junta called “American Police” to the Feds and the Private “Security Contractors” at BAH where Snowden worked before becoming The Greatest American Hero since…well…Lincoln? Jefferson? Washington? Perhaps more like Ben Franklin..who ALSO took on Imperial Censors and Vicious Bureaucrats with the Printed Word…….so you REMOVE the “Paychecks” and guess what?
2/3rd’s…Minimum…of the “Clerks” (i.e. “Hitler was only able to do what he did because of AN ARMY OF CLERKS”) the cubicle dwellers…will Vanish…overnight…if the MONEY STOPS.
They have no choice.
Mortgages..Car Payments…etc…etc…etc….etc…
Only the really “Fanatical” ones will be left to run the show..and they should…be exposed anyway…asap..the so called “True Believers” the “Orders Followers”…the Kieth Alexander’s…the Hayden’s…the really vile ….in fact…one can honestly say….the Evil…individuals who’s fanaticism threatens the very foundation of American Civil Liberties and Human Rights GLOBALLY.
So again…are You…willing…to face the fear and very real “Reprisals” from a Bureaucratic Class that is now literally…irrefutably…”Totally Dependant Upon YOUR Continued And Total Financial Support”?
Are You?
Because that…and nothing else…is what is required.
And more?
Not Until…Not One…Single..Solitary..Second “Before”….a Solidarity Movement of Targeted Tax Strikes and Simultaneous Corporate Boycotts…….will there be ANY…..even “Minute”….”Change”.
Without a direct and real and immediate “Threat To The Revenue Streams” of the Bureaucratic Class and their “Corporate Partners”……there….will….only….be….MORE….more Surveillance…More Violence from the “Police”…More Threats..More Censorship…More assaults on the Press…More “Security”…More Oppression…More Taxation (Because a Never ending Surveillance/Security state is ALSO an impossible to sustain “Socio-Economic Model”)….it will not even Begin to “Stop” until people like you who obviously SEE the reality can truthfully answer the question:
“Am I Ready And Willing Right Now To STOP PAYING And Thus Display My Utter And Total DISAPPROVAL Of This Lethally Defective ‘Policy Product’!”
Lastly…I find it sadly amusing that “Americans” see themselves as somehow “Savvy Consumers”…sure..if a faulty or defective product comes down the pike..like the Toyota or GM car or etc…etc..sad endless etc…then “Oh…I’d never buy that…”….but when it comes to FULLY..as in literally..no “Figure of Speech”..no “Hyperbole”…literally…Paying…100%..1-0-0-%…of the Cost…every SINGLE CENT of Everything from “Mass Illegal Surveillance” to “Drones” to Assassination of American Citizens and Rendition and “Indefinite Detention” and the whole gamut of Illegal and Overtly Fascist “Policies” as well as oh gosh…gee whiz…”Bailouts” and Corporate Welfare of every conceivable description as well as staggeringly overt Corruption…oops..sorry..”The Revolving Door”…..in other words a LETHALLY Defective “Policy Product”…then….suddenly….somehow…all that “Consumer Savvy”…Evaporates…”Hissssss”….like spit on the hood of a 1970 impala in 120 degree heat.
Its just “Gone” in the blink of an eye!
So are you willing to Not Pay?
Frankly..at this point…there really is no other “Question” in the “Change” category…its “Stop Paying or Just Be Quiet and Accept ‘Friendly Fascism’!”…wanna smoke pot? Okay! Reproductive and Romantic Freedom? Okay! Sure! Why Not? But Do…NOT…Question Authority! Do Not EVER Question Monsanto or The Treatment of Animals on “Corporate Farms”…Do Not Protest! Do Not Question Mass Surveillance Or Assassination Or “Executive Authority”….
Not one single solitary Second of any of this is “Occurring In A Financial Vacuum”.
Rationalization and Denial are now much more important to both the “Left” and the “Right” than “Reality”.
So what is your excuse for “Continued Payment”?
Your preaching to the choir ectoendomezo.
My moto is: follow the money trail and my research indicates that it will take much more than economic sanctions imposed by individuals, or even “….a Solidarity Movement of Targeted Tax Strikes and Simultaneous Corporate Boycotts…….”; to rectify the underlying economic tyranny being imposed internationally upon international citizens.
If one follows the money trail, it does not stop at the Federal Reserve of the United States. Keep following it until you arrive at the International Money Fund and World Bank. Wait…don’t stop there. Check out the Bank for International Settlements. There is an interesting book about that bank. It is: “The Tower Basel,” 1st Edition, 2013, Adam Lebor, PUBLICAFFAIRS a member of the Perseus Books Group. All of the corporations, governments, and politicians take their marching orders from the Central Bankers and they in turn, open accounts at the Bank for International Settlements. All the proceeds from revenues collected by governments and through NATO war efforts are processed through that bank.
Not that a coordinated mass public imposition of economic sanctions against corporations or refusal to pay government taxes like Income Tax, Utility Taxes, Energy Taxes and the like would not have an effect. More than likely, those attempting such measures would be classified as terrorists and be incarcerated without delay because the Military State is already well in place and ready to take action against all who overtly object to totalitarian control.
In the United States, there is one tactic that will not stop but will serve to essentially nullify illegal and unconstitutional federal laws. That is the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America which states: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Individual states can thereby nullify Federals laws which violate Constitutional provisions, and some noteworthy progress has been made. I have posted a link to Tenth Amendment Center in the comments section of this publication several times. It is easy to find. This one is specific to the mass surveillance issue:
http://offnow.org/action/state/
As for me…well, I don’t need food, water, warmth, air-conditioning, or shelter. Those are just “market commodities” which I should be willing to relinquish as they are only critical to sustained life. Until we get rid of the central bankers, that is my excuse for “continued payment.” I’m not ready to die yet.
As I’ve said to others, your ignorant believe in privacy over security is disappointing. Governments aren’t to spend millions of dollars to have a highly trained individual listen to your phone with your mom, or talking sexy to your partner. The judicial systems the west has in place benefit and are abused by the bad guys, be they criminals or terrorists.
But maybe you’re right and we should tell all the bad guys that we’re listening to their calls, because I’m sure that won’t stop them from using phones right. It would render the intelligence community completely blind as to any imminent threats.
Check out the font matching here:
http://imgur.com/ZdGqXGR and http://imgur.com/RQNtT2v
With basic font spacing/matching, once can match country names that would fit in that blacked-out area (also taking into account the space between words). Turns out there aren’t many country names that would fit in that area (it’s a big area indicating a lot of letters). Although I haven’t checked all country name possibilities, there’s one that seems most prominent, if revealed, could lead to deaths: Afghanistan (due to retaliation and unrest maybe, putting US soldiers at risk?)
Iran/Germany/Russia/China/Venezuela/Cuba are all too short… North Korea too long. The one that seemed to fit “perfectly” is Afghanistan.
Can someone find other possibilities?
I love terms like parallel construction and intelligent design.
Parallel construction is simply lying about where the source came from so that the conviction will not get tossed out for being fruit of a forbidden tree. If the government doesn’t want to expose these programs, then they should not waste them by using them on marijuana convictions. Because they then are breaking the law (by not properly informing the defense about where the source of their information came from). This technology should be only used for its intended purpose: national defense. Why risk exposing important technology that can help with national defense by having investigators engage in criminal behavior (parallel construction) to bust a guy selling marijuana from Mexico? As Colorado and Oregon have shown Marijuana is not that big of a deal and probably is no more dangerous then cigarretes or alcohol. Even if it was used to bust international drug traffickers selling heroin, which kills a lot of people, it is still not worth exposing something that should only be used for national defense because it forces investigators to engage in criminal behavior and risks exposing an important program that can help with national defense.
Of course, intelligent design is simply a way to deny science and Darwin’s remarkable scientific discoveries.
The redacted country is almost surely Afghanistan. Fits all the variables: DEA interest and access; a communications infrastructure largely dominated by US influence; a small but violent and fragmented population with access to telephony, and the name itself fits well in that space.
My guess is the unnamed country with the giant X is Ubeki-beki-beki-stan-stan. The president of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan does whatever we ask of him.
Pakistan is the only country that is guaranteed to have numerous people murdered in the spirit of protest.
The Intercept should print the name.
So, in other words, you’d like to see numerous people in Pakistan killed, right?
If so, may I say that you’re heartless and have not learned to see the humanity in “others”?
You need to stop seeing “otherness”.
There’s a simple formula: Want for others what you want for yourself.
Take care,
The US has become the most hypocritical nation on Earth. I’m ashamed to have been born here.
Am I the only one here wondering why the breaking news about chinese hacking is getting all the attention on the very day when you are releasing this much more important information? Am I being paranoid?
Tried posting under this name as didn’t go through….WG
It is pretty amazing to me that when the redacted entire country was first mentioned that in that whole time between then and now it’s identity has remained unknown. It would also be crazy for the American government not to have already started diplomatic procedures with said country about the intelligence gathering so that the government of the country must be aware..? It would then become down to them to have not disclosed it to their own people (which would follow that we all knew about it). Everybody knowing about it is different from the people it directly effects..
You also have to wonder how many journalists/lawyers etc know the countries identity…. Could that information really remain secret for a long time. I would say that was highly unlikely. I mean you’d just have to have a good idea which country it was and say the name of the country to one of the people who knew and look at their response (which is far more feasible than torturing one of them but that is also possibility of course). There are allot of countries but from GG’s comments all the “white” ones could be ruled out. Possibly relatively small population etc.. Logical deduction.? Are Wikileaks doing in 72 hours what any good investigative journalist in a month ought to have done (not to mention intelligence agencies). It seems to me allot of people know …. how on earth has it stayed ‘secret’? it certainly isn’t top secret any longer and in intelligence terms must be deemed ‘unclassified’ already…?
If only they would de-classify information that is leaked to the public – it would make things a lot easier. Unfortunately, keeping it classified has benefits in that government employees and elected officials are not allowed under law to utilize the information in official proceedings. Devious, that.
Bahamas looks like a test run, or laboratory for the system.
One thing seems clear, and that is the people at TheIntercept seem to be far more concerned about the loss of innocent life than the US government is. Kudos for that, at least.
As for the redaction, as German says, “Nothing stays secret forever.”
“Nothing” stays secret forever.
(Diamonds are a girl`s best friend?)
Putin anecdote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbinNj5cZSg
Sorry, but I disagree with the decision to holdout the name of the other country, regardless of possible deaths- Looking at the lives as your responsibility is wrong, if anything were to happen to those people, it would not be your fault or the fault of any article, it would be the fault of those doing the intercepting, thats the point-
they are putting lives at risk, if its such a danger, not someone printing that it’s happening. I agree the name should be published. Allow the governments and/or companies doing this crime to be outted, allow them to be punished for their actions….. its their own fault
If we accept that one is responsible for the predictable consequences of one’s acts, then the decision to redact makes sense, in my opinion. That it is ultimately the US government (or another entity) that originally put these people in harm’s way doesn’t change that.
Seems to me The Intercept could have announced it would boldly go public with the identity of the fifth country on, let’s say, June 1, so that the US government and the country concerned could thereby, in the meantime, remove all its / their spies from harm’s way.
Maybe; but wherever it is, imagine militants start rounding random people up and putting bullets in their heads on the pretext that they’re ‘spies’ for the US government? Who bears responsibility for that? In fact we saw something similar happen as a result of the sham CIA vaccination stunt in Pakistan, fostering a climate of rumors and suspicions, where Taliban began targeting health workers. Not saying this would happen, but it’s not impossible either. I don’t think you can just ignore that.
What’s interesting is that the reason for the redaction seems to have been to avoid overshadowing the story itself, with controversy and accusations of ‘putting people in danger’—but by redacting it they’ve accomplished the same thing, as speculation about the country itself seems to have in fact overshadowed the main story for some people. You know, people like to solve puzzles…
Thanks. Ad the problem-solving, but yes — of course. It is deeply frustrating to be fed four morsels but then denied the fifth — and almost teasingly so, given the redacted documents as published here. But things go quite a bit deeper than mere amusement. For a guy like me, who has long lived in the Middle East by the way, it’s pretty much axiomatic that the USA has no real business being wherever xxxxxxxxxxxx [= Axxxxxxxxxn?] might be in the first place; and that is the cardinal sin which pulls out the carpet from underneath everything predicated upon it. So — to the US spies and military I say, mind your own business and get the fuck out, pronto.
“it’s pretty much axiomatic that the USA has no real business being wherever xxxxxxxxxxxx [= Axxxxxxxxxn?] might be in the first place; and that is the cardinal sin which pulls out the carpet from underneath everything predicated upon it.”
—oh, totally agree with that. I just think it’s important to recognize who it is who will ultimately pay the costs. It won’t be higher ups like General Petraeus or Michael Hayden.
“If we accept that one is responsible for the predictable consequences of one’s acts, . . ”
That framing is not applicable for a journalist.
Journalists bear no responsibilities at all for anything they print? Then you’d agree that people like Judith Miller, Jeffrey Goldberg and the other obedient scriveners bear no responsibility for helping to lead the American intellectual class into the Iraq aggression, yes? I don’t think you really believe that.
Hahah. You got me, Rob.
Need I add “honest” to journalist?
A liar is just a liar, not a journalist.
Printing the truth is honest. Hiding the truth is less than honest.
Unless it’s your death of course.
Ha ha!
Even then, the fault can be assigned. “I’m making out the report now. We haven’t quite decided whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape.”
The problem I see with it is that the standard can’t be allowed to be “people will be angered”. If that’s the standard, then nothing of real interest will get published.
This is a lot like QE. Diminishing returns. What did getting this guy and his 90lbs of pot cost? Probably what 9tons does. Stop being so gay Glenn xD and name the country.
I bet the “unnamed” country under surveillance is Cuba !
One can’t help thinking that the editors here WANT the redacted country to be leaked. Why else would they post the image where the length of the hidden country’s name can clearly be ascertained? My rapid (but potentially flawed) analysis whittles down to a top 3 best fits (using Lucida Bright as best matching font), of which 2nd is Timor-Leste and 3rd is Switzerland. The 1st has already been surmised here in the comments; has a far greater population than the Bahamas; the US has participated in its infrastructure and has potentially vulnerable assets still there; and it is an incredibly volatile and violent place. (Maybe they should exile Assange there?)
Population yes , amount of mobile (cell) phone use?
.
The DEA should spend its resources catching the CIA in countries with a high opium output.
Why don’t they stop heroin at its source by listening to those source country phones.
Because they’re busy protecting it at its source – the modern version of the Opium Wars, perhaps. Certainly there’s a great deal of money involved.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/14066.html
That was my initial thought, but Wikipedia seems to think they’ve got 18 million mobile phone users. So they’d have to be using their phones 60 times less than people in the Bahamas (not impossible, I guess).
Mobile penetration in Afghanistan is 71 percent as of this year, a surprisingly high figure to me. And the population is now at about 30 million, having grown by a pretty shocking 50 percent since 2000.
All of this to say that while I agree that Afghanistan is the most likely answer, it is a hell of a lot more complicated than doing the Bahamas. Of course the fact that all of the country’s mobile infrastructure was installed under American occupation simplifies the task considerably.
Afghanistan fits rather well, and would make sense. There still are assets there, contractors and soldiers. In fact, by merely showing the length of the redacted word, they’ve significantly narrowed down the choices, haven’t they? The people over at Cryptome agree, whatever that’s worth (maybe nothing):
http://cryptome.org/2014/05/nsa-mystic-identity.pdf
Thanks for the link…
WG
Potentially more explosive: who has been helping the US decipher/filter/understand the presumably non-English content? And where do they live?
Machine translation for gist and then data mining to look for connections to known networks of interest. Convos thus flagged get human intervention.
I did some font matching analysis. Check out the font matching here: http://imgur.com/ZdGqXGR and http://imgur.com/RQNtT2v
With basic font spacing/matching, once can match country names that would fit in that blacked-out area (also taking into account the space between words). Turns out there aren’t many country names that would fit in that area (it’s a big area indicating a lot of letters). Although I haven’t checked all country name possibilities, there’s one that seems most prominent, if revealed, could lead to deaths: Afghanistan (due to retaliation and unrest maybe, putting US soldiers at risk?)
Iran/Germany/Russia/China/Venezuela/Cuba are all too short… North Korea too long. The one that seemed to fit “perfectly” is Afghanistan.
Can someone find other possibilities?
My first thought because of the “seeming” focus on drugs (though this may be a deliberate red-herring) was Afghanistan or Columbia . But who knows what these bastards are really up to, though you can bank on the fact that it’s not good? Frankly, my powers of imagination have been utterly exhausted. The day I saw their Star-Ship Enterprise set-up blew any remaining fuses that had survived Shock and Awe.
I hereby demand that you, Ryan Devereaux, Glenn Greenwald and/or Laura Poitras, disclose the unnamed country.
For those trying to guess the country, here’s a suggestion: measure the width of the redacted name in the excerpt, which is a jpg image. It’s 98 or 99 pixels wide. The document is in a variable width font so you can’t just count characters, but you can rule out some guesses.
I’d say the country name is a fairly long one. Mexico, for example, seems too short.
Another excellent piece exposing government misuse and abuse of power, law enforcement agencies acting outside of their jurisdiction and mandate, and of course, the massive, savage defrauding of U.S. taxpayer dollars.
Marijuana is a national security priority? Really? Stoners packing a bowl and ordering a pizza while watching Comedy Central is a threat to national security?
Not banksters siphoning money off to offshore accounts to avoid taxes that Jane and Joe America have to pay? Not big banks who receive golden parachutes for financial crises that they themselves create in cahoots with their paid agents in Congress, and who launder billions in drug cartel and terrorist monies?
Mass surveillance is not just unconstitutional, it is illegal, unethical, immoral and a giant, idiotic waste of taxpayer dollars.
It has nothing to do with keeping us safe from “terrorism” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QynchCojTzM), but the massive abuse of power for economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/12/programs-never-terrorism-theyre-economic-spying-social-control-diplomatic-manipulation-theyre-power.html).
It is about the new 24/7 Pentagon / Intelligence Agencies’ online Ministry of Truth engaging in online false flag operations to decieve, to destroy companies, to discredit them, to ruin business relationships, to destroy individuals’ reputations and lives of people not suspected of any crime or “terrorist” connections just because some corrupt psychopathic criminal sociopath with a security clearance and badge doesn’t like their opinion (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/).
It is all about controlling online discourse with paid government trolls with up to 15 identities (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/02/you-know-those-obnoxious-posters-who-almost-seem-like-alter-egos-of-the-same-person-they-actually-might-be.html) because trolling and pushing agitprop (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/04/04/cuban-twitter-scam-social-media-tool-disseminating-government-propaganda/) is the only way to justify idiotic, self-defeating, outright treasonous domestic and foreign policies, through the manipulation of discourse (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/pentagon-seeks-to-manipulate-social-media-for-propaganda-purposes.html) in social media.
It is mass profile building, secret lists, secret investigations, rubber stamp courts and preventing people from being even interviewed, let alone employed, by law enforcement or intelligence because they fit some Orwellian “profile” of a “potential threat” (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/take-the-test-to-see-if-you-might-be-considered-a-potential-terrorist-by-government-officials.html), for expressing views psychopathic criminal sociopaths in government don’t like, like supporting the Constitution, for instance.
It is politically charged surveillance and trumped up charges for exposing government criminality (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/04/pentagon-smears-usa-today-reporters-for-wait-for-it-investigating-illegal-pentagon-propaganda.html).
It is a giant, illegal, unconstitutional power grab (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/nsa-spying-power.html).
It is 1984.
It is high treason.
Does anyone have an idea what this is doing to American credibility abroad?
15 years ago a website was launched which discussed NSA crimes and surveillance.
It was dismissed as ridiculous by all.
It is still up, waiting for the world to catch up.
Now that Snowden has published, perhaps it is time for a second look.
Echelon, as the program was first named, required billions of 1980’s and 90’s dollars to build.
To fund it they engaged in a series of incredibly high profile terrorist actions and cloaked them
in a psyops campaign which was so powerful that when they closed the operation with an arrest
and public trial of the brainwashed patsy, everybody got a good laugh and walked away.
To this day, if you mention the case to anyone over 25, they are flooded with feelings of ridicule and absurdity.
To say the word is to define yourself as a nut.
It worked.
Don’t let it work on you. Ignore those feelings and take a good look at the deep dark world
of the NSA as exposed on the site Unabombers[dot]com
Dan Pride
15 years ago a website was launched which discussed NSA crimes and surveillance.
It was dismissed as ridiculous by all.
It is still up, waiting for the world to catch up.
Now that Snowden has published, perhaps it is time for a second look.
Echelon, as the program was first named, required billions of 1980’s and 90’s dollars to build.
To fund it they engaged in a series of incredibly high profile terrorist actions and cloaked them
in a psyops campaign which was so powerful that when they closed the operation with an arrest
and public trial of the brainwashed patsy, everybody got a good laugh and walked away.
To this day, if you mention the case to anyone over 25, they are flooded with feelings of ridicule and absurdity.
To say the word is to define yourself as a nut.
It worked.
Don’t let it work on you. Ignore those feelings and take a good look at the deep dark world
of the NSA as exposed on the site Unabombers.com
Dan Pride
1-303-800-0900
http://danielpride.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/danielpride/
The short term remedy – encrypt your calls. See how simply at http://wp.me/p4BzWS-1M
huh..
https://twitter.com/ageis/status/468623567002013696
ruh roh shaggy
Thailand
The spooks can’t even spell. They put the plural of Telco as Telco’s (with an apostrophe).
Edward Snowden
Balaji Srinivasan
There is no such thing as negative liberty.
Free -fall collapse speed through undamaged steel structure is impossible. How about that Milley ?
Inside Job ?
STOP domestic terrorism against Medical Marijuana Patients.
BOYCOTT Mel Sembler Company
STOP Bigotry and Racism.
(With Obviously a shout out – to ‘Richard Gage’)
Well. Ok .Milly ? Milley ? Couldn’t really figure out that ‘Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds ‘ thing on the show last night (But I figured out 9/11 was an inside job)
(Where’s Ed on this thing ? Have I just become some sort of unfulfilled -‘Previous Attraction ?’
Obviously what Glenn and Ed are trying to say here is – If you’re surfing porn in the Bahamas – stick to the Board and the Beach….
Hey – wait a sec -Did I not get this É
Kinda ironic that someone like Tiger who values his privacy so much and is a partner in building a condo golf complex in the Bahamas. I wonder if the NSA can listen in on sat comms?
As of yet, none of the Bahamian news players have printed a story on this. Insane.
.
—What Would Mr. Snowden Think?—
.
Regarding the Wikileaks v. First Look argument, could it be—from a devil’s advocate viewpoint—that First Look knew that Wikileaks might decide to name the 5th country, thereby taking the heat off First Look? That is, this could be a win/win for First Look, or at least not a negative.
Since Mr. Snowden risked the most and he began this odyssey, perhaps both parties need to contact him so he might act as a mediator by proffering his recommendation (which would be kept confidential between Wikileaks and First Look). Then, First Look could name the country or simply leave it redacted, without further explanation.
Of course, regardless of Mr. Snowden’s recommendation, the full team of lawyers et al. at First Look would have to agree to remove the redaction. However, if Wikileaks persisted, regardless of mediation attempts, then any onus would be wholly theirs.
idea for the NSA: announce to the world that every land line call, every cell call, all emails and all texts are recorded and archived without regard to any laws. Also announce that they have the technology to read any emails left in “draft” mode in any email provider. Lastly, announce they have the ability to decode any messages encrypted in images too. They can probably do this all already, and the 5 countries cell intercepts is just a red herring to make us all think that’s as far along as they really are . . .
If they really want to mess with heads, why not disclose the “camel cam” and the “donkey cam” that we have implanted genetically through nano technology in all the donkeys and camels born in the last 10 years . . .
While this all seems a bit over the top, a key question to me is just how much of this is being carried out with the knowledge and agreement of the countries involved. This is particularly the case with the 3 metadata countries where US intelligence cooperation is well known. The point is that to the degree this is being supported directly by the countries (governments) and we are undertaking to provide assistance, then, as long as US citizens inadvertently picked up remain protected, it is a an issue of privacy concerns in that country and not in the US. Our concerns with privacy have nothing to do with it.
I’ve assumed the NSA is doing the same in every country in the world including the US – what’s up NSA? you slackers . . . .
At least half of the stuff coming out of Snowden is fabricated crap or just plain B.S. Some of it is true and there is some measure of truth in some of his other revelations, but a goodly percentage of it is just pure unadulterated bullsh#t. This junk news is making the careers and fortunes of several persons who lean to the left politically.
Tyranny wrapped in a flag is still tyranny.
Mona, prolly shouldn’t put references to knickers and the phrase “sniff it all” in the same sentence.
Other than that, carry on. ;-}
Well, I did omit the bicycle seats!
Mr. Devereaux, Mr. Greenwald and Ms. Poitras
“……..Beyond the Bahamas, the other countries being targeted by MYSTIC are more in line with the NSA’s more commonly touted priorities. In Kenya, the U.S. works closely with local security forces in combating the militant fundamentalist group Al-Shabab, based in neighboring Somalia. In the Philippines, the U.S. continues to support a bloody shadow war against Islamist extremists launched by the Bush administration in 2002……..Mexico, another country targeted by MYSTIC, has received billions of dollars in police, military, and intelligence aid from the U.S. government over the past seven years to fight the war on drugs, a conflict that has left more than 70,000 Mexicans dead by some estimates…….”
You are certainly making Chinese and Russian government (ethical) hackers into the new Maytag repairmen by continuing to publish this information, but it is a good story on the inner workings of a modern sophisticated intelligence agency. It is difficult for many to fathom – a modern intelligence agency that takes advantage of modern technology which they use “perhaps” illegally. Apparently, the use of new ideas to advance surveillance was simply too much for Privacy International who believes that the CIA and NSA are becoming too technologically advanced.
“…….Privacy International argues in its 21-page legal complaint that the hacking tactics are more intrusive than more traditional eavesdropping methods, and that, if left unchecked, they could amount to “one of the most intrusive forms of surveillance any government has conducted”…..”
Maybe the NSA and CIA need to be limited to (warranted) eavesdropping on dial phones (only) and the use of crop dusters to take out (Islamic) terrorists.
Craig Summers burps:
Let me tweak that a bit:
It’s there repeatedly stated aspiration — greatly realized — to: Collect it All, Sniff it All, Store it All, Analyze it All. That’s wot gots our knickers in a twist, Craig.
“……..Collect it All, Sniff it All, Store it All, Analyze it All……”
Wow. Sounds just like Google.
Google is recording phone calls now? Aside from that, can Google render people for torture? Not there is anything wrong with torture if it’s “legal”.
Also, I didn’t know Google was intercepting all my financial transactions and was keeping track of what I streamed on Netflix.
liberalrob
As 60 Minutes revealed, your most personal information is being sold on line:
“………a huge amount of attention has been paid to government snooping, and the bulk collection and storage of vast amounts of raw data in the name of national security. What most of you don’t know, or are just beginning to realize, is that a much greater and more immediate threat to your privacy is coming from thousands of companies you’ve probably never heard of, in the name of commerce.
They’re called data brokers, and they are collecting, analyzing and packaging some of our most sensitive personal information and selling it as a commodity, to each other, to advertisers, even the government, often without our direct knowledge. Much of this is the kind of harmless consumer marketing that’s been going on for decades. What’s changed is the volume and nature of the data being mined from the Internet and our mobile devices, and the growth of a multibillion dollar industry that operates in the shadows with virtually no oversight.
Companies and marketing firms have been gathering information about customers and potential customers for years, collecting their names and addresses, tracking credit card purchases, and asking them to fill out questionnaires, so they can offer discounts and send catalogues. But today we are giving up more and more private information online without knowing that it’s being harvested and personalized and sold to lots of different people…our likes and dislikes, our closest friends, our bad habits, even your daily movements, both on and offline. Federal Trade Commissioner Julie Brill says we have lost control of our most personal information…….”
The NSA may be quite efficient, but your “privacy” is threatened by plenty of other sources. Unfortunately, you live in the computer/internet age which guarantees an infringement on your privacy regardless of the NSA storing bulk metadata – or even millions of phone calls in the Bahamas.
Thanks.
Hi Bill
I’m not sure what torture has to do with storing phone calls of residents of the Bahamas or Kenya, but I agree with you legal might not always be the most important consideration – and it’s a gray area. You might be morally opposed to the storage of metadata by the NSA even if the Supreme Court rules the practice legal. That’s a perfectly legitimate stance just as you might support a woman’s right to “choose” even though some others might consider the practice murder or morally repugnant (even though it’s legal).
Rational people readily discern the difference between NSA and Google: one is far more of a threat to our freedom than the other.
“Rational people readily discern the difference between NSA and Google . . .”
Hahahahahahah, you are sooo sure of yourself . . . . .
Doc
Your responses are completely worthless – like the responses of Chronicle (although not quite as personal).
Craig you got to be kidding me… My Grandfather was in serious law enforcement for 27 years so I mean I feel you on the idea of stopping radical terrorism/bad drug activity, but you mention things with no background facts on who is running what or setting up the things you mention. I mean why don’t we throw Eric Holder in prison and Wells Fargo’s & HSBC’s executives for laundering drug money or our government officials that are bigger than any mexican cartel in drug running, before we violate the good principles of law enforcement of having to abide by the laws to get wire taps (NSA/DEA officials doing this should definitely also be in prison-period). It violates the ability of future law enforcement of any kind to do good when it is needed. Did you just ignore (not read) that universal & solid law that is even set up in a impoverished (most of it) place like the Bahamas & in our constitution (bill of rights) . I don’t need to speak of Holder’s law breaking do I?..
I am not a judge but are you actually proud of this insanity & total violation of common laws in a manipulative way by the NSA/DEA & others? I mean this type of tyrannical surveillance is what was done by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, & other places in history & this is the worst kind of crime cause it has no oversight or consequences set up for its inevitable abuse as documented by almost all law enforcement principles & history books & it should never be allowed due to these simple documented things.
Especially considering the history of our NSA, CIA, DEA etc.. especially with recent lies (non-disclosure) & total tyrannical like surveillance (with documentation even showing the main targets of surveillance [veterans & tea partiers]) that could really detriment organized protest(s) & critical info to the masses. Yet truth has its way of getting going and knocks everything down (AKA Snowden & hopefully many more likewise).
John F. Kennedy said at the end of his speech to the press after one of our satellite’s was taken down entitled, “The President & the Press”; The speech was in no way to limit the presses ability to get info to the people but just to be a little careful during that time due to major power of USSR yet without the normal proclaimed kind of war.. Here is the ending quotes that you may find applicable to all the facts of this article…
…”It is the unprecedented nature of this challenge that also gives rise to your second obligation—an obligation which I share. And that is our obligation to inform and alert the American people—to make certain that they possess all the facts that they need, and understand them as well—the perils, the prospects, the purposes of our program and the choices that we face.
No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary. I am not asking your newspapers to support the Administration, but I am asking your help in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people. For I have complete confidence in the response and dedication of our citizens whenever they are fully informed.
I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers—I welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its errors; for, as a wise man once said: “An error doesn’t become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” We intend to accept full responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out when we miss them.
Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed—and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian law-maker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the First Amendment—the only business in America specifically protected by the Constitution—not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply “give the public what it wants”—but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crises and our choices, to lead, mold, educate and sometimes even anger public opinion.
This means greater coverage and analysis of international news—for it is no longer far away and foreign but close at hand and local. It means greater attention to improved understanding of the news as well as improved transmission. And it means, finally, that government at all levels, must meet its obligation to provide you with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits of national security—and we intend to do it.
It was early in the Seventeenth Century that Francis Bacon remarked on three recent inventions already transforming the world: the compass, gunpowder and the printing press. Now the links between the nations first forged by the compass have made us all citizens of the world, the hopes and threats of one becoming the hopes and threats of us all. In that one world’s efforts to live together, the evolution of gunpowder to its ultimate limit has warned mankind of the terrible consequences of failure.
And so it is to the printing press—to the recorder of man’s deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news—that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help man will be what he was born to be: free and independent.”
The non-disclosure of this type of surveillance & the lack of its need for any terrorism protection especially since most acts like Gulf of Tonkin, OKC bombing, Liberty, JFK’s, RFK’s, MLK’s hits/assassinations & many more of the world trade center attempted bombings which where proven to have government influence/involvement years before the 911 involvements, old Olie North which I was fooled by till I researched the facts and found that many of these stories to the public are multiple lies for political advancement. OKC was recently proven by a movie called “A Noble Lie” but not till after the movie was released did the real proof come from another film maker who had video taped Timothy McVeigh by accident while he was doing his little special ops side duties when the official story confirmed over and over that he was not working for military at that time… Busted by truth-period.
Craig I feel your ideas & I am open to discussion of facts. I think based on the facts, the good cops should throw these NSA/DEA bums, and their whole tyranny take over of people’s rights to privacy & to protest in a massive, organized, creative and investigative journalism way etc., in jail or be fired and eliminate programs like this that make it hard for people to trust the good cops. I mean who is watching these known criminal data “spyers”???…. I mean they do not have a good reputation period despite your infatuation with them which I give no power to. This should never be allowed and should be shut down immediately & if something reasonable law wise is done for legitimate reasons of monitoring an area where known suspicious activity is going on (and we should know right since we run 70% of the drugs-ha yet seriously) then there needs to be full disclosure that and about 3 other non-bias entities overseeing it for its potential tyrannical use and corruption.
I see why we have the constitution to protect privacy because it is just not right that someone is looking at what I do and say period. It is none of their or your business-never-period. If I committing a crime the facts are the judge and they need to be presented for proper law enforcement assessment and action, not you saying I think he might be bad cause of his ideas or views or cause the news says it is a bad area when the news is manipulated to take our freedoms. And likewise I am not the judge of you but I do get to look at the facts and I can do the citizen’s arrest thing on known felons doing a crime in front of me to someone else and if I could get close enough I would arrest Holder and many others.
P.S. why can’t me, you, & my grandfather see the facts about Kennedy’s death that has been withheld from those who own it-us the citizens of this country. Makes me mad anytime anyone wants to limit information and or control it. I will fight to my death for that right-period.
All this is based on Hebrews9:13-17 and the idea of documentation & facts and this is Mark signing off.
Thanks Mona for your good ideas and others within this serious article. Craig no harm intended just briefly speaking some facts needed based on your disregard of basic laws and facts to a certain degree. Appreciate some of your ideas though yet have learned in business to speak up right where something is out of wack/wrong! Again no pun intended.
How is this legal? The Obama Administration is an illegal thug gang.
Mona, I was doing something else, when assange/greenwald/ioerror/cook,et al twitspat happened.TI decided to un-redact 4 out of 5 countries.Assange says he will publish the 5th country, in 72 hours.ioerror is on which side?
This 5th country has some people who may or may not be hurt?
Do I have it right?
You have the basics down. I’m not sure how Julian plans to learn for certain who the redacted country is, but yes, he says WL will reveal in next 72.
Glenn said on Twitter there is a small company at physical risk in whihc death is a seri
I suppose we should be worrying about employees of a small company and not Small Company Corporation.
Employees should be able to evacuate in less than 72 hours . . . .
You have the basics down. I’m not sure how Julian plans to learn for certain who the redacted country is, but yes, he says WL will reveal it in next 72.
Glenn said on Twitter there is a small company at physical risk in which death from revealing is a serious possibility.
Whether Appelbaum has a “side,” I don’t know. He seems much in favor of not redacting, but isn’t insulting Glenn and Laura with accusations of “acting racist,” as Julian has.
At this point, I’m just thankful to all the gods that it is not my responsibility to weight competing interests and make this kind of call.
I’m with you on the agnosticism. I don’t think w have enough information to make an informed opinion at this point but this,
I’m just thankful to all the gods that it is not my responsibility to weight competing interests and make this kind of call.
this is something I think a lot of people don’t think about, but should, before tossing out accusations and castigation.
Most countries have greeted the news of NSA spying on their citizens with yawns. I am eager to learn the identity of a country that is so dedicated to freedom, they rise up in arms at the news they are being spied on. Perhaps the NSA has discovered the long lost country of Atlantis – they are known for valuing their privacy.
Or if I were cynical, I might assume this was a publicity stunt concocted by The Intercept and Wikileaks.
No one said anything about “rising up”. And cynicism does not mean “making shit up in your head”.
Bill Owen,
Responding with “increased violence” would obviously be considered “rising up” and would make your little whine fest here inapplicable.
@Bill Owen
Cynicism means an attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others. Was I not sufficiently scornful, or did I express too naive a faith in the motives of The Intercept and Wikileaks? I strive my best to be cynical, so it is disappointing to find I have fallen short.
I’m not so sure the “potential violence” is indicative of an incipient revolution. It sounds more like the country in question would know exactly who is responsible for this situation and try to do harm to them instead of to the people/system who approved it.
thanks!
*monetary quotes*
WL: The innocents in this equation are the entire nation of citizens who are being recorded. Everything else is doubtful speculation
GG: No – it’s based on particular physical vulnerabilities of the small company involved.
WL: When has true published information harmed innocents? To repeat this false Pentagon talking point is to hurt all publishers.
GG: Everyone whose name is on the story was convinced, not just me. And we redacted less than WL releases from 2010 & 2011.
GG: I said before that what pushed it over the line for me was the strategic rationale you cited. It would have swallowed whole story
WL: It normalizes redactions that deprive an entire citizenry of their rights and pushes ‘information harms’ nonsense.
WL: An entire people are being victimised. Small abusive company does not eclipse a nation. At most can be warned pre-pub.
Now I suppose the question is whether or not Wikileaks warns the concerned party, pre-pub.
This was a constructive exchange IMO. Chippiness comes with the stakes.
Doubt I’m alone in wondering what Snowden thinks on this one. Of course, he’s made clear he choose his journos for their discretion, and wants them to use it. So he should only fail to support them for very good reason, in my view.
Hmmmm.
Yeah, chain of custody is still an open question afaict. As it concerns Snowden anyway.
Hm. Is the idea that the telecom company executives allowing spying in the redacted country might be prosecuted and face the death penalty? If so, then all you need to do to get away with heinous crimes like this is to commit them in a country with the death penalty.
Why do we care about phone calls in foreign countries? The NSA does, and they should. I’m glad they watch them. Especially since the US Gov just filed lawsuits against the Chinese for corporate espionage using electronics means. The NSA needs to do more IMHO, though with more watches and balances for sure.
The Assange/Greenwald/Cook/Appelbaum vehement Twitter dispute on the redaction: http://chirpstory.com/li/207419
Much rather see a constructive discussion on a collaborative level instead. This is how progressives manage (see my earlier definition of same to forestall unneeded blow-back) to get mostly nowhere on many issues – they argue the process, and forget the desired end result. Meanwhile,, the powers-that-be wait patiently for the “radical” ideas to fade from public consciousness.
That’s my fear, anyway. I’m hoping past experience isn’t a predictor here as well.
“The secret is to gang up on the problem, rather than each other. – Thomas Stallkamp
The revolution always eats it’s own. Always.
Wrong answer goddammit. If we expect the same end result (status quo) well that’s fine. But if we want improvement, it’s not.
Thanks for that link. It was Interesting to see the flurry of tweets. Regarding the unnamed country – I had thoughts almost identical to @Joshua’s way earlier in this thread. A previous article right here on TI indicated it was Iraq and it fell under the MYSTIC program. So like Joshua, I’m wondering if this is accurate (and new info will cite another country) – or Iraq is not under MYSTIC (SOMALGET) and there might be some other program.
Either way, this is quite an article. And unlike Mike S., I do like the title.
First attempt didn’t show. Thanks for the link; it was interesting to see the flurry of tweets.
Re: the unnamed country – I had thoughts almost identical to Joshua’s way earlier in this thread. Since TI actually published that all communications in IRAQ were collected under MYSTIC/ (SMOALGET), will this be shown to be inaccurate – or that Iraq may have been covered by some other program.
Good article, and unlike Mike S., I do like the title.
@ggreenwald: @wikileaks @ioerror @johnjcook We published the names of FOUR countries WashPost suppressed- we were *very convinced this 1 would –> deaths
western european r1b has committed genocide non-stop on every population on earth. If they’re recording every call in a country it’s because they’re committing genocide.
Wikileaks has a responsibility to notify the country that r1b is committing genocide on their population.
Furthermore aside from active genocide, they’re using data to permanently subjugate that population, design their society to injure them and evolve technology detrimentally away from them.
If people get hurt it’s r1b’s fault and nobody else as usual. If they’re so afraid of every population on earth then they should be put inside all the prisons they build, they’ll be nice and safe in there. Obviously it would make more sense to put them in there than everyone else.
Because of some of your prior rantings about this “R1b” bullshit, I did a bit of searching. While there is some interesting *theorizing (controverted) that a neolithic culture was wiped out by a strain of humans w/ the R1b mutation on the Y monochrome, there is no evidence that those carrying this marker today are plotting and carrying out genocides.
Of course, since the Irish carry this marker very heavily, and I’m mostly Irish, I am among those you want to lock up in prisons to prevent my genocidal ways. Or is it just our men?
In any event, please keep this nonsense down in posting volume, and management may let you stay.
Otherwise they will unleash the genocide?
Well, if you consider permanent pre-moderation purgatory to equal genocide, then yes.
When you get to the place where you think that the end justifies the means then you are playing with fire and of course we will all get burned sooner or later.
My intelectual property entails not just my PRIVACY – Alejandro Grace Ararat
Ekkkk, although I love what Snowden is doing, im a little concerned about this information. This is the kind of information that could cause World War III. All hell is going to break loose. Tighten your seatbelts, folks!
All life forms on the planet must find a place to hide.It is not possible in today’s world.This will have a major effect on reproduction around the planet.As the planet warms up reproduction will go down.It all adds up.And the N.S.A. boys are hideing in their low power high frequency radiation toumbs.What a day. John Bertotto
Just stop worrying and love the bomb, John. It’s all a farce.
What a relief to see the revelations resume! Just when I was wondering what was wrong, they started up again. Good job Glenn, et al. Thank you for continuing to take up the cause. The world still needs your help, as I am sure you know. I feel a hell,of a lot better now. Godspeed.
Wikileaks/Assange has just tweeted to Glenn and John Cook that WL will be releasing the name of the unnamed country within 72 hours.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/468520418329260032
If the rationale is “there might be violent outrage”, I’d have to agree with Assange that’s not an ethical rationale for redacting anything. Perhaps they will be right to be outraged, and should not be treated like children.
For now, I’m agnostic on the redaction.
But I was totally pissed when Julian tweeted that TI was “acting racist.” He discontinued that line when it didn’t go over well, as well he should have. As if the above authors, including Laura Poitras, are fucking racists. pffft
Mona– You want bet the unreported country is either Yemen, Pakistan or Iraq?
” I was totally pissed when Julian tweeted that TI was “acting racist.”
Yes. Bad terminology. but the point remains: Too many have their collective panties/cuckolds/asses in a bunch to make informed decisions. All considered need to get off their high horse (perceived or not) and get moving in a common direction.
Glenn should know more than most that divisive messages lead to garbled results.
For goodness sake – form some realistic alliances, and get the common message through – because if you do not, we are all screwed.
“Alliance does not mean love, any more than war means hate.
– Francis Parker Yockey
If you act like a racist, are you a racist? Some people get free passes for special days?
How do you square the withholding of info with the “certain people are more violent than others and will murder themselves if not protected by us Westerners” and not come up with a racist (The West/westerners) explanation?
Maybe your agnosticism should
While the idea is relatively clear, racism isn’t the correct word. (maybe something like paternalistic? there’s certainly a better word than that, but I’m having trouble thinking of a particularly appropriate one)
You can only claim “act like a racist” because you change the meaning and imply racism with “certain people are more violent than others and will murder themselves if not protected by us Westerners.” Nobody ever said “certain people are more violent,” “murder themselves,” or “[need to be] protected by us Westerners.” It is undeniable that the political and economic state of a country could make some areas more prone to violence or harsh reactions; that is not a claim about race or culture. (though it could be if you phrase it like you just did, in your lie)
I’ve been shocked reading the back and forth exchange btwn WL & GG… This is just what the NSA wants… divide and conquer. I pray that after a good nights sleep and maybe a phone call between the two that cooler heads and logic and reason will prevail. GG & WL are are the same side … I hate to see their mutual efforts devolve into a pissing match over something that seems trivial to them and not to TI. As I see it – it’s about strategy, not semantics, not splitting hairs.
Did TI/GG go after THEIR jugular at any point in the Chelsea Manning story? Did TI/GG call THEIR journalism and/or ethics into question and threaten their tactics in any way? I actually don’t know the answer to that … but all valid questions in my mind.
In as much as I absolutely don’t think WL has a dog in this fight – I do appreciate their passion and ire behind why they think they have a bone to pick … If only more people were this outraged by these revelations (besides the NSA and USG). But they need to let this go … because if this is just the first sparkler in the fireworks finale that GG has been promising in his interviews of late – then my wish would be that WL/Assange might get a grip on their temper and see the advantage gained by witholding this one detail (for now) … And that at the “end of the day” this might actually serve the greater good and provide a more favorable outcome for doing so (bigger boom!) – not the least of which – is saving innocent lives. I trust this call … thank you Edward Snowden and everyone at TI.
Wow, what a great place for the NSA, for so many awesome reasons.
If you want power and money, you go where the power and money are, and you spy on it, blackmail it, divert it, etc.
The last thing you want to do is shut down the corruption—then it would just move elsewhere, almost certainly someplace much harder and riskier to spy on.
They speak English in the Bahamas, and there’s no shortage of English-speakers among NSA analysts.
Rich and powerful Americans vacation there. Corrupt ones launder their money there. Can you imagine a richer field for political blackmail and insider trading information? You can divert some of the money and if you have the good on people, they won’t call the law on you, or if they do, they won’t have much luck.
It’s not far from DC by plane, right in our “back yard,” and it’s part of the UK commonwealth, so under very friendly spy control.
Plus there’s the cultural resonance—Bond babes in bikinis on the beach, Felix Leiter, etc. What a cool place for a spy’s working vacation. And of course you have to do some vacationing, to maintain your cover.
It’s perfect.
It’s not up to these writers to censor material based on a “fear” of violence. It doesn’t matter what your “specific credible” threat is (which you never bothered to post anyway so why should we believe anything you say), the people of any country have the right to self-determination. You don’t get to determine what to withhold and what to include based on some ethereal threat. Let the people of the countries work it out.
It’s obvious you’re protecting U.S. imperialism by withholding this information. What a bunch of paternalistic neocolonials.
I got through with the first part of this article and was not surprised in the least….To think, we live in the era of Big Brother, for real, already. that didn’t take long at all.
A lot of confusion about the difference between spying on Americans – illegal and spying on foreigners, ‘legal’ and what every country does…
I wish that there was some way to read the comments in the order than they were made rather than the reverse of that. Seems like that would be an easy option to offer to people.
I second that.
Seems like an easy and obvious extra.
Agreed. I really like the comments section on Ars Technica, where the comments are not nested and you can upvote or downvote. I don’t understand why more sites don’t do comments like that.
Getting every phone call in a country and they don’t know it? I guess if Snowy says so it must be so…
Let’s see, small company, high chance of violence, program named “Somalget”, Kenya is also a target, Bahama’s is being used as a testing ground so that modifications to the program don’t interrupt collection in the more important country… This program is obviously targeting Somalia. Laura, Glenn, and Ryan, you should have just published the name.
The DEA has become very evil. They’re a massive, out of control secret government agency. This is the problem with all the “terrorist” legislation. They always include a provision for “drug dealers”. It’s absurd that small time marijuana dealers get treated the same as Osama Bin Laden; especially considering that 52% of Americans think marijuana should be legal.
The DEA is going to need to be eliminated if they continue on this course. Americans have had enough of this bs.
The’re recording everything so fuck’em
Good article. Amazing still how many people don’t get how morphing from National Security concerns re terrorism to ordinary criminal activity is a great breech of trust. All the co-opted politicians have to do is pass another law to ban some other innocuous substance and boom, a boon for the private industrial prison complex.
Currently in the middle of No Place to Hide and loving it.
And my vote for the unnamed country pool is Egypt.
Other sources are reporting the “unamed” country as Venezuela. Why isn’t that called our here?
It’s funny how the NSA is tracking everyone in the world but don’t know that there is an illegal alien in the White House. Obama has a proven Fake Birth certificate, fake Selective Service Card and a stolen SSN.
Confirmed: Obama’s Birth Certificate Not Authentic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWmWO18GTc8
I don’t think it’s so much that they didn’t see what’s wrong abusing their power, I think it’s more like they saw the potential consequences but were sure they would never be caught (which seems unlikely). Most likely scenario is that they knew they’d eventually be caught but they didn’t want it to happen as soon as it did. Nobody could’ve foreseen Snowden becoming a whistleblower… and more that should be left unsaid, by all peoples. We don’t want to give them any ideas.
Some wild speculation on the “Unnamed country”.
OK so I thought about maybe taking some semi-educated guesses about the “Unnamed country” based on the length of the blacked out name.
If you load the image of the original document in an image editor, cut out the word “Bahamas” and move it over the black bar in line with where the other lines of text start, you will notice that the bar is slightly longer than the word.
With the font used in the document, not all characters are of the same width but I guess we can speculate that the name of the unnamed country is at least one or two characters longer than the word “Bahamas”, so 8-9 characters.
If you parse a list of all the counties in the world, filtering for those who are either 8 or 9 characters long, this is the result: http://tny.cz/d49e4eb9
Since the article specifically mentions the potential of violence, I have a tendency towards Pakistan as the most likely guess. Also possible and highly interesting: Venezuela.
This is, of course, all speculation – based on the very roughest of estimates…
And they have the gall to hold a press conference today accusing China of hacking their systems. Its friggin joke that keeps on giving.
As a Bahamian I find the article troubling but believable. I wish that most of the other commenters had not spent so much time in “Black helicopters” territory and spent more time discussing what this might mean for them, their countries and how to defeat these systems.
So?
In addition to the idiotic title, another problem in this article is the confusing indication of what the potential legality of this interception means.
Does this
refer to laws in the US (That is, is it legal under US law for NSA to do this in the Bahamas?) or in the Bahamas (That is, does the law in the Bahamas allow this interception to occur in the Bahamas?).
This:
would seem to rule out the latter*, but I do not see why the former would be a problem. The US has always insisted it is entitled to spy on foreign nations any way it pleases.
*Unless, perhaps, every resident is named.
Legality is secondary, in my view. I prefer to think in terms of principles, right and wrong. Laws are often not moral, and legal frameworks don’t address every possible scenario.
But let’s consider something that’s in the news: The US charging Chinese officials with hacking. Is it actually illegal in China to hack foreign targets? I doubt that. When considering legal questions about such matters, you also have to consider whether it’s illegal in other countries, or in international law.
So is it legal in the Bahamas to record everyone’s phone calls indiscriminately? Is it legal under international law? And no, “might makes right” is not a valid moral response.
Your comment misses the distinction between legality and constitutionality. Although one could argue that these acts are “legal” no one would make the argument that they are constitutional. Especially since violation of our fourth amendment, where ever we (U.S. Citizens) are on the world, is specifically prohibited. In English.
The NSA is going after drug dealers that don’t pay their cut to the DEA. The U.S. Government really, really hates competition. The war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on terror. These things are only meant to increase government power, plain and simple. When you could buy opium, cocaine, and other drugs legally before prohibition there was no epidemic of drug use.
Add the SEC, IRS, DEA, and DOJ to your list of agencies that charge a commission (or “take a cut of the profits) of illegal activities without really punishing the perpetrators or doing anything to stop the illegal activity. For the government agencies it’s as though they have some kind of exclusive dealership that just allows them to dip into the illegal profits bucket every now and again to take their cut. And of course we taxpayers finance their exclusive position and our own drug use, tax cheating, securities and banking fraud, and other assorted vices keep their regular commissions rolling in.
Now the criminal enterprise called the U.S. gov’t is expanding its tentacles overseas, just like the drug cartels.
Wow! Finally! Amazing! This is the first, best most spectacular piece of writing I have seen since I can remember! Each awesome word perfectly chosen, not too lengthy, absolutely informative, no pork- The kind of things we should see in abundance on a daily basis..
Thanks you Mr. Greenwald for assembling such an inter-stellar group of writers, thinkers, and right-minded individuals to assist in the awakening of civilization!
“a leading haven for tax cheats, corporate shell games, and a wide array of black-market traffickers”. They are not going after the financial terrorists they are only trying to stop a few pot smokers from shipping a product that is becoming legal in many states. Why would a people that preaches democracy, it’s constitution, it’s Statue of Liberty and continuously undermines any nation that falls short of the American dream allow their government to continue down this path. Do they not understand how dangerous this is, are they watching to much reality TV, are they really so inept that they don’t recognize how this will impact their futures. It gets frustrating reading all of this and no one in the mainstream media gives it the attention it requires.
I enjoy how ALL these articles blurb out near the bottom “.. and we don’t know if its really happening or not..”
Good stuff. On crack reporting.
And where does this article say that?
It doesn’t.
“Legal or not, the NSA’s covert surveillance of an entire nation suggests that it will take more than the president’s tepid “limits” to rein in the ambitions of the intelligence community.” — maybe this is what luvbrothel was writing of . . . .
I said to record the OBAMA’s Not The Bahamas!
LOL, Thanx!
Excellent observation! We all chuckle – but that may be true, our government does incredibly clumsy things.
Now it is time to stop the boasting of the boyscout Snowden. All GSM networks (which is the dominant mobile network – you have 53 variants of “competing” US technology – CDMA in the US). But to obtain voice access, you need full access to the HLR that belongs to the operator / carrier. This will encrypt the voice according to US and NATO “High Security” encryption. End of story. It has been made this way to make it impossible for the former Soviet Union to tap in to the European phone system. The HLR is the heart of the network and has millions of encryption keys to manage. In Russia, they tried to turn it off, and the Israeli tried to intercept and will keep on trying. The NSA can intercept the mobile network as much as they want, and try to decipher, which will take them about a month to reconstruct a 2 minute call. What is un-encrypted on the network is the IN – the signals that controls and manage the network. Just listen, do not interfere and it is possible to detect that calls are placed and terminated, the roaming between BST/BSC – and now and then an High Security encrypted SMS. The moment a new message “appear” out of nowhere, the entire network will be reset. So, good luck Americans – you whistleblower can sing, just now, its a screaming falsetto – DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. We know that the security services listen, and we know what they can do, and what is not possible. They can place “viruses” in every iPhone and listen to what is said – we cannot clean the phone. Most of Android is open-source, so here it is more difficult – but of course, they are in all Windows phones. Symbian is open-source once you have paid for the license. But those that use an iPhone risk that the NSA intercepts – but it is not intercepted with the operator / carrier.
Is it far fetched to suppose that the carriers are collaborating with the NSA either willingly or unwillingly?
I wish I could remember where I read this, perhaps it was on Twitter … but I read someone surmise that the FCC allowing the recent merger negotiations between Comcast/Time Warner & ATT/Direct TV with little/no resistance *might* be their concessions/green light for using them for 1) NSA data mining in return for 2)dissolving Net Neutrality.
Given the underhanded, back door dealing and gross surveillance agendas this all seems plausible to me. It’s like they think we’ve all forgotten about how all the airline and telephone monopolies *needed* to be broken up and led to the Sherman Antitrust Act. Now they’re all reforming those monopolies AGAIN – including the banks! Something stinks to high heaven about ALL of this shit going down behind closed doors!!!
Sources?
Stream encoders are actually pretty weak. Also, your provider has all of your endpoint/SIM keys. It’s how they push updates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_identity_module#Authentication_key_.28Ki.29
Without sources, and given that you’ve said, “a month for 2 minutes,” I’m inclined to disregard your entire post.
GSM only uses 64 bit encryption. Kids stuff to ‘break’ these days. But the new LTE systems have much stronger encryption…
The US government is engaging in open terrorism on other countries. Guess they feel as long as they lie to their citizens they can get away with whatever they want. When this all collapses it’s to throw the whole world into a mess. To the apocalypse then.
“… an internal NSA presentation from 2013 recounts with pride how analysts used SOMALGET to locate an individual who “arranged Mexico-to-United States marijuana shipments” through the U.S. Postal Service.”
AN individual? One??? How much pot are they talking about???? And who was the deliveree??? And “pride” towards whom? With more and more states legalizing pot how is this a top priority – especially when stateside growing ops are popping up all over legalized states??? I call #BULLSHIT … this is another #REDHERRING!!!
“Attorney General Eric Holder has described Mexican drug cartels as a U.S. “national security threat,” and in 2009, then-CIA director Michael Hayden said the violence and chaos in Mexico would soon be the second greatest security threat facing the U.S. behind Al Qaeda.”
Holder and Hayden? How can you tell when they’re lying??? – when their lips are flapping!!! Parroting the phrase of “national security threat” and suggesting “violence and chaos in Mexico” and comparing the threat to Al Quada are the biggest tip offs that they are gas lighting weed as “terrorism” to divert attention away from their ulterior motives of mass surveillance.
If there was any evidence whatsoever in their arguments that mentioned heroin, meth or cocaine was coming in from Mexico or the Phillipines I might give them the a shred of benefit of the doubt – but pot??? Come On!!! Who are they trying to pacify with these trumped up accusations? And who the hell is dumb enough or getting paid off in enough unmarked bills to believe such utter and complete nonsense??? Are these countries that naive? Or that corrupt??? Or that complicit?????
1) bahamians complain. 2) u.s threatens to halt billions in annual aid. 3) bahamians stop complaining.
“and one other country, which The Intercept is not naming in response to specific, credible concerns that doing so could lead to increased violence. ”
It is sad to read that here. What country could that, even possibly, be true for?
@seedeevee ^^^ that was my first thought too … and I was speculating wildly on who that country might be. But ultimately – I decided I didn’t want to know – if only for the fact that I couldn’t bring my fingers the power to put those ideas out into the universe for fear that it might plant a seed in the head or heart of even one of the mothers who reside in the country of my careless ponderings. The thought of fearing for the safety of my family (or perhaps praying for their martyrdom?) based on the disclosure if this were my country (even if it was an innocent lapse, in the name of disclosing it for the benefit of their knowledge, or out of deliberate spite to our government) knowing reactionary violence could lead to their death or indefinite imprisonment is a fate I wouldn’t wish on my worse enemy … honestly. My throat is aching from the choke of TI’s decision *not* to publish it – but I am grateful for their judgment to err on the side of caution.
Why there is no outpouring of rage and protest from the -majority- of collective citizens of the 5EYES nations, and their “spied upon” allies is what I find most disturbing and heart wrenching. As Glenn said himself of Edward Snowden’s motivations (paraphrased) that anybody – we each – possess(s) the ability to harness and exact a change in this world… Edward Snowden did all of this as one person. It was a totally selfless and noble act – as is in the case of all persecuted whistleblowers.
Can you imagine the sheer power every “average-Joe” citizen of the American/English Speaking World if THEY ALL stood up for not only THEMSELVES but ALSO for the billion(s) of nameless/faceless innocent citizens of these other countries who are at the mercy of our collective governments illegal global surveillance and domination efforts? Can you imagine the power that we each possess to be a hero among heroes on this planet to stop this threat against the privacy rights of the world and set an example of how democracy is SUPPOSED to work? There is a part of me that *almost* wishes it was the U.S. that was the country in question … but my biggest fear is that “we” will be one in a long line of populaces that WILL fall because was FAILED to raise our voices – and “we” aren’t even looking for our own sword to fall on – sacrificing our only ability to be the hero of our own country, our own state, our own family – and even for ourselves – as individuals … Americans have become as pathetic as their apathy … and the myth of heroes lie in demonized and vilified whistleblowers … and in summer blockbusters … SMFH ~
” . . . but I am grateful for their judgment to err on the side of caution.”
But, I am not.
That’s ok, too. You’re clearly not alone. IMHO if even one life is spared for the omission then I remain grateful. The information and burden of that decision will, no doubt, be revealed one way or another. -Mona- hit it home with, “I’m just thankful to all the gods that it is not my responsibility to weight competing interests and make this kind of call.”
Holy shit, they are truly a leg up on the rest of the world. No wonder our government is so powerful.The term “knowledge is power” really comes alive when you see this publication out of The Intercept today. Thank you Glenn Greenwald for your reporting.
Just further proof that NSA surveillance is not meant to protect us from terrorism; it is meant to find out which of us is using/buying/selling drugs or hiding our money in a tax shelter or a number of other things our government doesn’t like. It’s all about control, not about safety.
You cannot stop the drug trade. No matter how many people are put in jail, the profit incentive will induce others to take their place. So the DEA manages the drug trade. If the price is too low, they clamp down on the trade; if it is too high, they ease off a bit – so that too many new players won’t enter the market.
But like any market management scheme, it only leads to inefficiency and corruption. So allow the small time operators to stay in business and shut down the DEA and the NSA.
“allow the small time operators to stay in business and shut down the DEA and the NSA”
… Um, thanks for that FrAynkenstein. It’s this kind of capitalistic thinking that is funding the MIC, the NSA, Wall Street by the corporate elite via corrupt politicians and psychotic war mongers who are bought and paid for by the Libertarian 1% … hate to break it to you but your philosophy of Objectivism created these monster inmates running the asylum … and here I thought you despised Libertarians.
P.S. It’s not the USG, not the NSA and not even the DEA that gives two shits about the drug market – it’s their customers… the MIC that seeks to own that real estate and #PHARMAFIA that seeks to control the resources & products of the market … and behind it all is your capitalistic 1%. Drugs are no different than fossil fuels, logging, water rights and other natural resources … just an FYI.
You flatter me. But monster inmates have always run the asylum. They accomplish that by convincing enough people to sacrifice their own aspirations to serve the interests of their rulers. When someone tries to point that out, they are demonized for glorifying selfishness. If people could see this simple truth, they would be far from powerless.
A new framework of regulation will constrain the NSA and DEA for no more than a moment. The only viable solution is to defund them completely – yet it won’t happen, because freedom from these predatory agencies is too terrible for most people to contemplate. In the final analysis, they love the monsters who rule them.
“The only viable solution is to defund them completely”
For better or worse spying will always exist and, like it or not, there will always be a need for it … so defunding isn’t even an option. I am in favor of those that agree spying is warranted on certain occasions – however – proper oversight is required – by both the government and by journalism. Simple checks and balances, that’s all.
Had the laws enacted to prevent this very scenario been followed, had appropriate whistleblower efforts been recognized and reacted to accordingly/lawfully, had Congress acted appropriately/responsibly/lawfully in the defense of our constitution, and *had all these persons calling these shots been halted, exposed, held accountable and prosecuted in a timely manner* and *had MSM “journalists” extricated their brown noses out of the WH’s asses* then perhaps we might not be living out this nightmare we currently find ourselves unable to wake up from.
And yes … I believe this level of selfishness should be demonized. But for the vast majority of those who were entirely capable of being whistleblowers didn’t “sacrifice their own aspirations to serve the interests of their rulers” … they sacrificed their oath to our constitution and personal ethics and morals to selfishly keep their freedom and their lives intact. I’m not necessarily defending that decision – but given the terror tactics described and lived through by previous whistleblowers … “shut yer trap & do yer job – or we’ll ruin your life & your family & you’ll be in jail as a traitor ’till the day you die” … this amounts to nothing more than emotional blackmail – so does that make freedom an aspiration? Maybe if you are a citizen in N. Korea or some other dictator-oppressed, undemocratic country – but not as a U.S. citizen. Freedom is supposed to be our “right”.
After the last year of seeing this play out – and watching Frontline last week – I wonder how far this whole situation would have unraveled had EVERY OTHER federal employee within the Intelligence Community stood in solidarity with the initial 5 whistleblowers who DID sacrifice … up to and including all the federal + private contract employees currently working under the now stronger, tyrannical threat to our democracy? To date NONE have spoken out to corroborate and defend any whistleblower … THEY TOO are monsters of their own creation and their only freedom is serving their predatory masters while the clock is ticking …
But love? Slaves rarely, if ever, “love” their masters … and as the world watches them all – while this entire story unfolds – I do hope they fear becoming pariahs because the sound of their own deafening silence will live with them and their families until the day they die. That’s their own self-imposed enslavement. And that’s why Edward Snowden sleeps well at night.
Spying is symptomatic of the need to control others. But there is no logical imperative for it. Human relations would function better without it. The fact that many or even most people are unwilling to do so is not proof that it is necessary.
The non-whistleblowers may stay out of a jail cell by following orders, but that is hardly true freedom. The whistleblowers desire true freedom – for society in general perhaps, but most of all for themselves. Should they then be demonized as selfish?
If you hold self sacrifice to be a virtue (which I do not), then becoming a slave is the ultimate noble act. But you are right – to willingly become a slave is not an act of love but of self hatred. Everyone should love themselves enough to believe they deserve freedom. Only a handful do – witness the small number of whistleblowers compared to the large number of drudges who serve these agencies.
“The fact that many or even most people are unwilling to do so is not proof that it is necessary.”
— In a perfect world it would be unnecessary … but the fact that we don’t live in a perfect world and when faced with evidence that we are being spied on trust is broken and in return becomes a necessary defense. That is the logical imperative – and the reality of our non-perfect world.
“Should they then be demonized as selfish?”
— They are already being demonized. I can’t imagine how those whistleblowers, who have already been to hell and back, feel about their former colleagues who silently sat back and watched them twist in the wind and lose virtually everything … and never made a peep. The conversations that must’ve taken place around the water cooler and at lunches among various individuals and during entire “damage control/policy enforcement” meetings – let alone between whole teams, departments and divisions of any number and collection of peers, colleagues, supervisors, managers, mentors and mentees. The whistleblowers who spoke about all this information being an open secret within and between their organizations … how many of those who sat on their hands still have their jobs? How many were promoted and/or favorably retired for protecting their rulers/masters? Are their rewards and “freedom” in exchange for their silence not grossly selfish?
“If you hold self sacrifice to be a virtue (which I do not), then becoming a slave is the ultimate noble act.”
— I never suggested that self sacrificing your morals is a virtue – and spinning my words to suggest I might think enslavement is a noble act is beyond hilarious. Way to put words in my mouth!
For the record, I believe in D.T.R.T. (Do the right thing). When you hold yourself accountable – and accept responsibility for your failings – especially when others are hurt in the process of your failure – and do what’s right to acknowledge and make amends – then I think that act is virtuous and noble. I believe this is what Edward Snowden did. Yes, he held knowledge and participated – for many years it seems. Yes, he was a party to compromising many of the exact same things we are vilifying our government and officials for orchestrating and individuals for doing – BUT – he redeemed himself in his act of self-sacrifice. He knew he would be forfeiting his happiness and entire future – breaking many hearts in the process – and jeopardizing his freedom and safety forever – just to expose what he was party to. He didn’t do that to himself for himself … he did it to himself for you, me and every citizen of every country he’s trying to enlighten and warn.
Altruism is a virtue … self-sacrifice is a choice … being a chump or doormat for either is naive and/or co-dependent. Whether or not people love themselves “enough” they deserve freedom as a basic human right – unless their freedoms have been removed (in the case of punitive prison sentences and/or if they are declared a threat to themselves or to society).
“Everyone should love themselves enough to believe they deserve freedom. Only a handful do – witness the small number of whistleblowers compared to the large number of drudges who serve these agencies.”
— From what I’ve seen, whistleblowers seem to love themselves *and society* enough to believe they *all* deserve freedom – and they are willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of them all in that effort. The drudges love themselves more than anyone else and serve those agencies at the expense of society and freedom … they are neither free, and their self hatred much eat them up alive. That is self-sacrifice. That noble, and courageous and brave. None of which are necessary to be altruistic. None of which are selfish. All of which are absent in objectivism.
So … I suppose for the drudges/non-whistleblowers/sit on their hand’ers … I am “right – to willingly become a slave is not an act of love but of self hatred.”
Sorry for the long-winded thread. The following statement appeared out of order:
*** SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE PARAGRAPH ENDING IN “enlighten and warn” *** {note: should’ve added “and protect” also}
That is self-sacrifice. That noble, and courageous and brave. None of which are necessary to be altruistic. None of which are selfish. All of which are absent in objectivism.
… and since I’m here I might as well correct:
“and their self hatred [must] eat them up alive.”
The Philippines were the original “surveillance lab”.
Alfred McCoy for Tomsdispatch
“The Empire never ended”. – Philip K. Dick
Alfred McCoy: It’s about blackmail, not national security.
…
Please. They’re spies. That’s what they’re supposed to do. Get a grip on reality.
And resisting them is what freedom loving individuals are supposed to do.
Be a patriot! Kill James Bond!
Recording every phone call in a sovereign nation that holds no threat to the US? Are ya kiddin’ me? I think GG said yesterday this is one of the only true bi-partisan issues currently debated an d agreed on, we care about THIS kind of spying.
Says one calling from the rabbit hole.
Let there be side channel information leakage: The black budget excerpt gives the approximate length of the unnamed fifth country, thanks to the black redaction squares.
Given the length, it is almost certainly Pakistan (and Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen are all trivially excludable. Only Somalia is close, but a bit of font checking/testing should tell for certain which one of the two it is). Given our oh-so-lovely reputation there: ANY contractor for a US telco assistance firm really should leave the country ASAP.
More importantly, if the Intercept editors see that my conjecture is right, they really need to move now: Pakistani intelligence will have already noticed this.
Please, don´t say anything negative about Pakistan. It is such a beautiful country. Do they have arab horses? My dad worked there (or in Afghanistan?) for a while when I was a child. He owned an arabian horse he told me. I never understood why he did not stay there.
There is little reason this capability cannot expand to other accesses (besides [?????????] and the Bahamas.
12,13 or 14 characters (including spaces)
Population of similar* size to Bahamas. (350,000)
The Intercept is not naming in response to specific, credible concerns that doing so could lead to increased violence. (implying an already volatile situation in the country)
Name that country?
The bottom line is that you can’t trust any American corporation – not their services, not their products.
Please keep outing companies like General Dynamics.
If you look at paragraph 57 of the judgment of the Court of Appeal of the Bahamas linked to below, you’ll see that there is very little protection for your right to privacy if you use a system (such as telecommunications) that you don’t own
“Generally speaking a conversation that takes place over a system or systems not owned by the persons using the system or systems would not be considered private nor would a person who happens to listen to such a conversation be considered to be carrying out a search or entry onto the private property of the parties to it..”
Justification for such invasive laws found in the first motto of the Bahamas, “Pirates Expelled, Trade Restored” (also mentioned in the decision)
http://www.courtofappeal.org.bs/download/041969600.pdf
new motto of US re: Bahamas, “Pirates Restored, Trade Expelled”
Why the Bahamas? Because it’s the obvious place to start the global war on tourism. You are either with us, or you are with the tourists.
Hilarious! Thanks for that : )
As I’ve been writing in blog posts, the NSA/USA stage of surveillance is for all practical purposes complete. Now for NSA/USA, it’s on to putting all the surveillance to work in intimidation, dissolution of any forms of opposition, and the manufacture of reality—which are the ultimate objectives of the totalitarian security state. The surveillance is not simply for observation, prevention, or interdiction—but is intended to be instrumental in inplementing the insane, inane imperial vision of those enmeshed in the discredited concept of American exceptionalism.
— author, A CLICKING IN THE AIR – A Connecticut Whistleblower’s Story
When I think of government waste, I think of the CIA, the DEA and the NSA.
Not one of them does a single thing that I would choose to have anyone, government or private, to do to or for me.
The “unkown” country is Austria (Europe), as has been revealed some days ago:
source: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2FNSA-hoert-angeblich-auch-Oesterreich-komplett-ab-2165101.html&edit-text=&act=url
german language link: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/NSA-hoert-angeblich-auch-Oesterreich-komplett-ab-2165101.html
I really impressed with your service. And one more thing that,
Thanks for sharing our posts to all over world New Eamcet Results
—-Venkat
Q: Why would the “National” Security Agency record phone calls in another nation? A: They are not the “national” security agency, they are the “World” Security Agency–now who voted for that?
This-^
We are seeing the beginning of a one world government. Without independant sovereign nations we will have too much power concentrated in the hands of too few and clearly Washington wants to see no more independant sovereign natiosn. or as Chomsly put it, “The US acts like it owns the world.”
I hate to be the guy… but the Bahamas aren’t in the Caribbean.
Great report as usual though, it was worth the wait.
Thank you. I am Bahamian and it drives me nuts when people say were in the the Caribbean. But this just makes me furious, this taping of our phone calls. Obama is the devil.
They are according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Caribbean_islands
Well if the Bahamas were once occupied by Carib Indians that makes it Caribbean.,eh?If not,Atlanteans.
“..contain references to a technician at a “SOMALGET processing facility” who bears the same name as a LinkedIn user listing General Dynamics as his employer.”
Let’s start naming these assholes.
so name the linkedIn profile then
“… and one other country, which The Intercept is not naming in response to specific, credible concerns that doing so could lead to increased violence. ”
It’s beyond heartbreaking that this revelation might impact another country in a way that puts living souls in such dire risk. The heavy burden I feel as an individual citizen – that my country has acted in this manner – and *innocent* lives hang in the balance because of it – brings such shame to me.
Anyone who condones the actions of the NSA/GCHQ in the name of “national security” and anyone who calls into question the patriotism of Edward Snowden and every other whistleblower whose lives are destroyed by these governments is nothing more than a cult member in my eyes … so deluded and brainwashed, suffering from such deep-seeded Stockholm syndrome – or are so consumed by greed and megalomania – their willful and witting denial … they are all damned for their actions and ignorant support in the face of this overwhelming and incontrovertible evidence.
How MSM “news journalists” aren’t shouting this from every rooftop at the tops of their lungs – or walking off on-air in protest of this outright blackout and censorship ***should be criminal*** … as government “watchdogs” these journalists are as complicit and guilty of violating the 1st Amendment with their censorship as are their corporate paycheck signatories!!!!!
If their silence isn’t the epitome of “indecent” then I don’t know what is? https://www.aclu.org/oppose-infringement-first-amendment
Great comment! If only more felt as deeply as you do, we would have confronted this criminal enterprise, and put a stop to it, before it had gotten so out of hand.
Has any of the cable news picked this up?
From the story:
MYSTIC surveillance in the Bahamas, Mexico, Kenya, the Philippines, and one other country, which The Intercept is not naming in response to specific, credible concerns that doing so could lead to increased violence…..
I thought for once there would be a news channel that had balls to report it all. Guess I was wrong, now that you have earned enough cash on snowden files you decide what to publish.. Start to look more like the government and agencies you have been trashtalking for the past years… You have been talking about transparency and not hiding the truth! Who is hiding it now intercept
The point of Snowden is to tell us about illegal surveillance performed by the US goverment.
The point is not to leak every bit and piece of information. Snowden specified this in his talks with Greenwald.
I suspect there is a strategic purpose for this decision moreso than there is a “credible concern”.
Unfortunately, the “Trust No One” mentality we all must adopt is simply a product of the times, a side-effect of the fight against the NSA/Federal Government.
The NSA story is not a straight forward news story to report. Obviously there are certain strategic considerations that must be made when handling this information. If the Intercept decided to withhold the name of this country, it is probably because they calculated it would do more political harm to their cause than it would illuminate wrongdoing.
From a very very abstract perspective, what difference does it make what the name of the unnamed country is? Sure, I would like to know what country it is myself, but knowledge that there is another country which will not be named is enough to demonstrate the important fact about this story: the surveilence is occurring. The name, although very interesting, does not make or break the message behind the story. (Again, THIS IS AN ABSTRACTION, TAKE THIS AS A HYPOTHETICAL NOT REALITY)
Hypothetically, let’s say the “unnamed country” was North Korea — a nuclear power. Let’s say news of this espionage publicly embarasses North Korea to the point where they feel compelled to start a ground invasion of South Korea to reassert authority. Nevermind that headache, but now factor the negative light The Intercept will be portrayed in for catalyzing war overseas. Think about all the talking heads who will say “you see, the Snowden leaks are dangerous!”
Anyway, yes, I would love to know what country it is, but we need to think more long-term than that. Which methods are most likely to challenge the NSA and which methods are most likely to damage the resistence? These are the important questions. When the surveillence state is dismantled, I’m sure the name of this country will leak itself to the public in a matter of time…
“If the Intercept decided to withhold the name of this country, it is probably because they calculated it would do more political harm to their cause than it would illuminate wrongdoing.”
For clarification sake … Per Twitter today:
GG: “But there was a very convincing probability in that 5th country for how innocent people would die which we all accepted.”
Reply from another person: “@ggreenwald is that possibility based on the likelihood of citizens violent revolt against the responsible entities?”
GG: “No – it’s based on particular physical vulnerabilities of the small company involved.”
I take GG at his word … and FWIW I agree with everything else you just said… enough looking at the trees – focus on the forest, people!!! Thanks @Joshua
Thank you all for the great reporting. This work is extremely important.
Great story. I wonder how low our taxes would be if the IRS was working through the NSA to bring the tax dodgers and shell corps into legality. But no, our country is so freaking bought and paid for that they are busting weed sellers to justify the billions we spend on our ‘war on drugs’. Our nation has become a bitter joke.
I can think of one way that taxes could be lowered having to do with the surveillance state: abolish it by refusing to pay for it any longer.
EXACTLY!!! Not only our taxes, but those of all the 5EYES countries??? Any why are politicians so up in arms and jumping up and down over the IRS targeting the tea baggers? With every revelation it appears this is only the biggest organized Mafia in the history of the planet – and if Al Capone was MOST guilty under RICO laws then why isn’t the IRS pursuing the same charges against these asshats??? Why are they so dogged in pursuing the little fish individuals when there’s so many bigger fish to fry???
You might want to some research on Al Capone and RICO. You’re a bit off in what you just wrote.
@dano… I just re-read what I wrote and I’ll agree with you on my poor choice of words “MOST guilty”. The phrase completely ignores what you may mean to allude are his most vile and heinous crime of mass murder in his organized crime endeavors… but it’s my understanding that the government lacked evidence of those crimes -but- had an airtight case of tax-evasion which was easier to prosecute and provided a longer prison sentence.
I regret that my comment came off as thoughtless and entirely minimized the souls of those that Capone was never held accountable for ending … I never meant to suggest that the RICO prosecution somehow trumps living, breathing human beings, but I can now see how my sentence looks. Thank you for calling me out on this …
You don’t think the NSA is tipping off law enforcement agencies when they pick up something “interesting” thru their illegal surveillance? And that the agencies then disguise the source of the tip to make the case they build -now that they know where to look-admissible in court? All they have to say is “We got an anonymous tip.”
Like you kharma.
Interesting to see how the NSA sweep of all the uber-rich person’s phone calls in a vacation destination country will go over with the Oligarchy that runs the world.
The Bill Gates’ of the world don’t mind the NSA violating the privacy of poor of the world, but when THEIR communications are being recorded by the NSA, there may be some push back.
In this modern day, when the Rule of Law has been eviscerated by the government and economic elite, it is perfectly fine to subject normal people to mass surveillance, massive fraud and abuse from the financial and other corporate kleptocrats, and complete abrogation of constitutional protections, but doing those things to rich people is frowned upon.
It is similar to the difference between Jamie Dimon and Bernie Madoff; Madoff made the mistake of stealing from rich people.
At least one can hope…..
We have 650,000 new bureaucrats in our security establishment since 9-11. We must find something, anything for them to do.
Does the unnamed country (the one with an increased risk of violence- implying there is already a risk of violence) start with A and end in N? Does it have 11 letters in its name (which suits the space made by the redaction)?
Can I guess the unnamed firm? I do believe the documents previously provided here acknowledge a company that fits the bill. NSA (see you real soon) DEA (why because we like you).
I’m a guessaateer boys and girls.
FYI, you’ve beaten me to it, and I’m confident you’re right on all counts. After all, there exist hardly any other contenders as a flick through an Atlas will confirm. Bravo.
If we all lived in your ideal world where the actual purpose of these technologies didn’t fall so far from the advertised purposes of them, well we wouldn’t be here discussing this would we? Don’t be fooled, just because you want the DEA to fix problems with these tools does not mean that Snowden, Manning and all the rest of them are running for their lives for the fun of it. Wake up.
Glenn,is a fake and a phoney and has made a lot of money off it.
yawn.
There will always be douche-bags named Jeff.
Yeah,Do you know Glenn?Stating a fact doesn’t make you a douche-bag makes the person with kharma for a name a douche-bag.
never ends???
I’m actually really relieved, because when I first read the headline I could have sworn it said the NSA was recording all cell phone conversations using bananas.
Re: Banana comment — Hilarious!
“the implication that NSA’s foreign intelligence collection is arbitrary and unconstrained is false.”
Hold on … I just coughed up my lungs!!!!!!!!
I’m starting to wonder this: Has the 5EYES rush to secretly sabotage and secure the communications technology of the entire world *before they get caught red-handed* mean that they are implementing it in such a way that it becomes irreversible and therefore make them impenetrable to any/all efforts by these nations (and by default their citizenry) from reverse future protections … by that – I mean has the train already left the station? If the genie is already out of the bottle is there any way to stop it in its tracks, fight off further infiltration and reverse engineer it?
This thinking is based on my assessment that the current covert creation of our militarized police state + stocked and ready FEMA camps = any efforts against organized peaceful dissension and/or outright revolution already appears to be improbable (if not impossible) in ever happening. The USG has already set up the policing + penal system in preparation of what they knew might be inevitable … thereby neutering those willing to openly protest or “fight” against actions such as these and “terrorizing” any populist movement to support it (either voting against or even speaking out) for fear of the *now obvious* consequences.
I can only imagine these other countries are, no doubt, rabidly frothing at the mouth in the wake of these latest revelations – not to mention the U.S. citizens swept up in all of it – but I can also imagine that the only recourse left at this stage of their shenanigans is for certain Silicon Valley companies (or emerging entrepreneurs) to relocate overseas and become permanent foreign companies if for nothing else but to develop and sell systems which only serve to thwart and annihilate every effort that the 5EYES software and hardware applications and systems are designed to infiltrate … becoming a sort of technological defense industry for every country that’s been subject to these illegal, diabolical and genuinely nefarious form of technological warfare.
I would explain EVERYTHING as to why Obama’s strategy to fast-track and secretly shore up the TPP – to block any and all of those efforts and why the corporate elite are behind it 100%!!!! No wonder they’re not allowing Congress to see any of the legislation they’re supposed to vote for/against – THIS IS THE END RUN that puts into place any and all efforts to block the possibility for stopping the NSA/GCHQ once and for all!!!!
“Lawful intercept systems engineer communications vulnerabilities into networks, forcing the carriers to weaken,” says Christopher Soghoian, the principal technologist for the American Civil Liberties Union. “Host governments really should be thinking twice before they accept one of these Trojan horses.”
EXACTLY!!! … goes to my question posed in Paragraph #1 above??? These nations are letting the fox into the henhouse – and therefore are they in turn locking themselves out of the entire chicken ranch and handing over the keys forever ???
Wow. Vacation phone sex just got so awkward. Unless it’s, I don’t know, voyeuristically NSA themed, I guess.
From the article:
“In 2000, the NSA assured Congress that all electronic surveillance performed under 12333 “must be conducted in a manner that minimizes the acquisition, retention, and dissemination of information about unconsenting U.S. persons.””
Brings a whole new meaning to “consenting,” doesn’t it?
@Coram Nobis: but if the NSA has already stated that any/all international communications aren’t protected by constitutional privacy laws then doesn’t it make that statement a moot point? The act of communicating in *any form* with *anyone* internationally makes that communication (both the metadata + content) open to their collection and analysis whether we consent or not, no?
The “Unnamed Country” — previously released information says that a simillar collect “every phone call” system existed for Iraq.
With this “Unnamed Country”, is the implication that the unnamed country is Iraq — complimentary to previous reporting — or is the implication that the unnamed country isn’t Iraq — the Iraq program falls under a different umbrella.
Is the implication that the Intercept wants to posture itself in such a way that it appears as if it does not want to propagate potentially dangerous classified material — even if that classified material was made public by the Intercept in a different context? This theory lends itself well to the tone of the article referenced below.
See: “NSA Blows Its Own Top Secret Program in Order to Propagandize”, The Intercept
“In Iraq, for example, the National Security Agency went from intercepting only about half of enemy signals and taking hours to process them to being able to collect, sort and make available every Iraqi email, text message and phone-location signal in real time, said John “Chris” Inglis, who recently retired as the NSA’s top civilian.” — The Intercept excerpting from the LA Times.
“analysts can follow up on hunches by going back in time and listening to phone calls recorded during the previous month”
sounds like analysts aren’t bothering to get a warrant based on reasonable suspicion/probable cause before listening into the conversations possibly between citizens of these two countries possibly and US citizens.
And Moore’s Law hasn’t finished its run yet – the ability to capture all communications in a country of 400,000 people will grow. Soon, for the same price, it’ll be 4 million. Then 40 million. We’ve gone from the largest corporations having one computer 60 years ago to every home (that wanted one) having one computer 30 years ago, to every person having multiple computers on their person and in their car today – and those corporations that could afford that one machine in the 1950’s can now have a ‘cloud’ of tens of thousands of them. What’s affordable for the Bahamas today is affordable for the whole USA in another 30 years…and we can now see that mere “metadata”, as powerful as that can be, is not nearly enough for their appetites.
If NSA looks too hard at business in the Caribbean, they’ll see more than they want to about the BIG fish. ALL the US multinationals use Cayman and Bermuda and likely Bahamas to evade taxes, etc. And those big fish are NOT to be disturbed for sure ….
An interesting companion piece to this story might be to describe some of the technology the NSA can use to search a large store of audio data.
For example, if the NSA or the DEA had one audio recording of the voice of a person they were looking for and they believed he/she might be in the Bahamas, can they build a profile of that voice and search for it in the data store?
How close are they to getting that technology?
According to the story, the NSA or DEA can retrieve a specific call that they know exists in the trove (which is obviously pretty powerful) but they’d only do that if they had a reason to suspect that recorded call contained important information of some kind. It’d be much more useful for them if they NSA could search the trove for voice recordings that match the profile of a suspect’s voice.
sorry for double posting. I didn’t see my comment after posting the first time, so did it again (with a little extra). Great story….
An interesting companion piece to this story might explain the technological capabilities of the NSA to search a massive audio trove for a particular voice. For example, if the U.S. had an audio recording of a suspect they were looking for, can they profile that voice and search for any matches in the data trove?
Great story. Glad to see you’re back publishing.
feel free to delete this comment since I accidentally posted twice (see above) but second posting has more detail
Yes they can. They killed a terrorist just that way a few years ago, and he wasn;t even on the phone. He was talking in the background while someone else in the vehicle was on the phone. They tracked him, in real time, and drone-struck the vehicle. In Yemen I think.
great!
“international narcotics traffickers and special-interest alien smugglers” MY ASS!!!
Seems more plausible that this is being used to isolate conversations between banks and account holders to leverage IRS tax dodging schemes for political advantage … i.e.: blackmail.
I’m not defending these corporations – but I would be more sympathetic if the NSA used this data to clean up the IRS and Wall Street by imposing heavy fines and incarcerating the guilty parties and their “fixers” rather than protecting their nefarious political interests at the expense of every taxpayer in the country…. But no – this merely provides further $$$ to collude with corporate america stateside and abroad to achieve industrial and political end goals and secure world domination by and between other sovereign nations and hold financially hostage them and developing countries through bribery and corruption!
The article explains the more plausible reason: Testing the capability. The Bahamas is a tiny country. Storing voice takes a lot of storage. Of course, in the future, the NSA will have the capability to store everything everywhere for a long time.
Is there any doubt the reason Bahamian banks aren’t being dismantled is because they can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater? CIA is renowned for their drug-traffciking and consequent money-laundering. Don’t connect those dots too inconveniently. Thanks for the newest bit of revelatory window-dressing, btw.
Karzai had monthly suitcases of cash hand delivered to him by some agency (cough) – for many years, and for some reason not by the State Department through official bank transfers. The almost non-existent opium trade under Taliban rule somehow again surged to life after U.S. occupation began.
I’m not suggesting a world-class drug cartel is laundering billions through a puppet government…
It just ‘appears’ that way.
Note this from the story:
– – –
“If the U.S. government wanted to make a case for surveillance in the Bahamas, it could point to the country’s status as a leading haven for tax cheats, corporate shell games, and a wide array of black-market traffickers. The State Department considers the Bahamas both a “major drug-transit country” and a “major money laundering country” (a designation it shares with more than 60 other nations, including the U.S.). According to the International Monetary Fund, as of 2011 the Bahamas was home to 271 banks and trust companies with active licenses. At the time, the Bahamian banks held $595 billion in U.S. assets.
“But the NSA documents don’t reflect a concerted focus on the money launderers and powerful financial institutions – including numerous Western banks – that underpin the black market for narcotics in the Bahamas. Instead, an internal NSA presentation from 2013 recounts with pride how analysts used SOMALGET to locate an individual who “arranged Mexico-to-United States marijuana shipments” through the U.S. Postal Service.
* * *
“… The answer may lie in a document that characterizes the Bahamas operation as a “test bed for system deployments, capabilities, and improvements” to SOMALGET. The country’s small population – fewer than 400,000 residents – provides a manageable sample to try out the surveillance system’s features.”
– – –
The US wouldn’t be interested in monitoring banks, now could they? Even given the financial and tax-evasion shenanigans going on? Or even given that large shifts of cash may be a way of tracking major drug or terrorist groups, as the article notes?
Of course not.
Gives one a good idea of who owns the US government and what their nightly dreams are made of. Once one possesses control of the global money supply, no matter what it is based on, one can make of the world one’s plaything, ignoring the law all must obey but not so, those in charge.
Reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode – wish I could remember which one.