The National Security Agency last year significantly expanded its cooperative relationship with the Saudi Ministry of Interior, one of the world’s most repressive and abusive government agencies. An April 2013 top secret memo provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden details the agency’s plans “to provide direct analytic and technical support” to the Saudis on “internal security” matters.
The Saudi Ministry of Interior—referred to in the document as MOI— has been condemned for years as one of the most brutal human rights violators in the world. In 2013, the U.S. State Department reported that “Ministry of Interior officials sometimes subjected prisoners and detainees to torture and other physical abuse,” specifically mentioning a 2011 episode in which MOI agents allegedly “poured an antiseptic cleaning liquid down [the] throat” of one human rights activist. The report also notes the MOI’s use of invasive surveillance targeted at political and religious dissidents.
But as the State Department publicly catalogued those very abuses, the NSA worked to provide increased surveillance assistance to the ministry that perpetrated them. The move is part of the Obama Administration’s increasingly close ties with the Saudi regime; beyond the new cooperation with the MOI, the memo describes “a period of rejuvenation” for the NSA’s relationship with the Saudi Ministry of Defense.
In general, U.S. support for the Saudi regime is long-standing. One secret 2007 NSA memo lists Saudi Arabia as one of four countries where the U.S. “has [an] interest in regime continuity.”
But from the end of the 1991 Gulf War until recently, the memo says, the NSA had a “very limited” relationship with the Saudi kingdom. In December 2012, the U.S. director of national intelligence, James Clapper, authorized the agency to expand its “third party” relationship with Saudi Arabia to include the sharing of signals intelligence, or “SIGINT,” capability with the MOD’s Technical Affairs Directorate (TAD).
“With the approval of the Third Party SIGINT relationship,” the memo reports, the NSA “intends to provide direct analytic and technical support to TAD.” The goal is “to facilitate the Saudi government’s ability to utilize SIGINT to locate and track individuals of mutual interest within Saudi Arabia.”
Even before this new initiative in 2012, the CIA and other American intelligence agencies had been working with the Saudi regime to bolster “internal security” and track alleged terrorists. According to the memo, the NSA began collaborating with the MOD in 2011 on a “sensitive access initiative… focused on internal security and terrorist activity on the Arabian Peninsula”; that partnership was conducted “under the auspices of CIA’s relationship with the MOI’s Mabahith (General Directorate for Investigations, equivalent to FBI).”
The NSA’s formal “Third Party” relationship with the Saudis involves arming the MOI with highly advanced surveillance technology. The NSA “provides technical advice on SIGINT topics such as data exploitation and target development to TAD,” the memo says, “as well as a sensitive source collection capability.”
The Saudi Ministry of Defense also relies on the NSA for help with “signals analysis equipment upgrades, decryption capabilities and advanced training on a wide range of topics.” The document states that while the NSA “is able to respond to many of those requests, some must be denied due to the fact that they place sensitive SIGINT equities at risk.”
Over the past year, the Saudi government has escalated its crackdown on activists, dissidents, and critics of the government. Earlier this month, Saudi human rights lawyer and activist Waleed Abu al-Khair was sentenced to 15 years in prison by a so-called “terrorist court” on charges of undermining the state and insulting the judiciary. In May, a liberal blogger, Raif Badawi, was sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes; in June, human rights activist Mukhlif Shammari was sentenced to five years in prison for writing about the mistreatment of Saudi women.
At the time of the al-Khair sentencing, State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki issued a statement saying, “We urge the Saudi government to respect international human rights norms, a point we make to them regularly.”
Asked if the U.S. takes human rights records into account before collaborating with foreign security agencies, a spokesman for the office of the director of national intelligence told The Intercept: “Yes. We cannot comment on specific intelligence matters but, as a general principle, human rights considerations inform our decisions on intelligence sharing with foreign governments.”
This is so crap.
I find this comment from Glenn’s article very interesting:
The Saudi Ministry of Defense also relies on the NSA for help with “signals analysis equipment upgrades, decryption capabilities and advanced training on a wide range of topics.” The document states that while the NSA “is able to respond to many of those requests, some must be denied due to the fact that they place sensitive SIGINT equities at risk.”
Here’s the part I like, “they place sensitive SIGINT equities at risk.” I’d be willing to be a dollar-to-a-donut that these “Equities” really means “Israel”.
Notice the bust of Lincoln behind Obama. Lincoln is holding his head down in shame.
Saudis is one of the largest oil producer in the world…Iraq was competition! I think 16 of the people that hit the world trade center where Saudi al-Qaeda.
Who else would the US be friends with Israel? Oh wait they’re a repressive to those that don’t believe that they should have their land stolen and given to those placed in power. So why wouldn’t we be friends with Saudi Arabia and Bahrain? It seems perfectly logical to me.
State terrorism practiced by friends is not terrorism. That’s why Israhell ignores all UN resolutions since it’s backed by Harper and Obama. They can practice nazism against palestinians to quench their blood thirst and it’s fine. The US has enough money to sponsor them.
As a (perturbed) Canadian, I would add that Canada signed off a $10 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia earlier this year. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/04/canada-saudi-arms-deal-significant-risk-201442134450317440.html
Of course, Saudi Arabia is also one of the worst oppressors of women in the world. The Saudi king has his imprisoned two daughters actually and has denied them food. Not a peep about this anywhere — even in this article, though a vague and cloying reference to “mistreatment.” Sigh. It sees women’s rights will never make it onto the human rights ledger, or men’s political one, even Glenn Greenwald’s.
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/17189593-daughters-of-saudi-king-abdullah-claim-they-are-imprisoned-and-denied-food
Thank you so much, Athena, for sharing this information with us. Yes, it is very true. I, too, noticed in reading Glen Greenwald’s article that the terrible plight of women in Saudi Arabia is not mentioned with a single word. Women’s rights still are not considered to be human rights, in spite of all the vociferous campaigns.
Erica
You can’t blame Glenn for not listing every single human rights abuse by Saudi Arabia. The article probably would be 100 pages long. He just gave a couple examples.
If this thread is still active…
If anyone have missed this or similar reports:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/28/israel-military-campaign-continue-mission-accomplished
My heart is just sinking. This is just so horrible; in no way is this justified. This madness needs to end.
Pro-Israeli demonstrators in Israel chant, “There is no school tomorrow in Gaza, because there are no children left there.” The two lines rhyme in Hebrew. Video http://goo.gl/5PUZ81
Should be http://goo.gl/5PUZ8l
George Galloway on the crisis in Gaza:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7-FGxrtnmg
People in Gaza are tweeting that they don’t know what is coming now that Israel has rejected the Kerry
cease fire but they fear the worst.
The saddest part were that those people put their hopes in an American politician to save their ass from genocide.
I went to the San Francisco Gaza protest this weekend. It was in the same spot as last week’s: the plaza across from the Ferry Building. It’s a great place for a rally, by the way. It’s on the Embarcadero near the bay bridge. There’s a fair amount homeless people in the area, but they mix pretty well with the tourists. Everyone seemed pretty chill with each other.
When I walked into the plaza there was good size crowd and I immediately saw a row of Israeli flags in the back of plaza. They had sirens and megaphones blaring trying to drown out the speakers on the stage. I was struck by how feeble their chants were. They were basically spewing the same tripe you see repeated ad nauseam on twitter and CNN, i.e., Hamas and human shields. It struck me how stale their delivery was. I got the impression that even they didn’t believe what they were yelling. They sounded like boisterous bots reciting from a script they were told to adhere to. I walked past them a few times to see what kind of reaction I could get from them, but they just looked straight ahead, seemingly only concerned with disrupting the speaker.
Due to the noise from the belligerent galley, I walked to the front to get closer to the stage so I could hear better. When I got there the speaker introduced Max Blumenthal who I wasn’t expecting. I had arrived just in time. Max came on stage and began speaking. Max’s in-person stature is larger than he seems in videos. His delivery is strong and confident in a way that easily amps the crowd. He reminded of Mario Salvio from back in the day. (It’s funny, I got that same feeling as I did during OWS: that we’re practicing for bigger events in the not-so-distant future.)
The Israeli contingent didn’t seem like they were going to let up.
A young Palestinian man then came on stage and described how his friend in Gaza was killed after he decided to take a 30-minute nap after being extremely fatigued from staying up during the bombing. He said that his friend was not a member of Hamas and that he never even held a weapon in his life, much less owned one. His honest accounting of the death of his friend was very moving. Everyone was quiet when he spoke. I also noticed that I wasn’t hearing the Israeli’s anymore. There was something so real in the young man’s voice. Rather than trying engender anger or excitement in the crowd, it was like he was confiding something very personal to us all. I felt transfixed as he was telling his story. It was as though the plaza dissolved and faded away, replaced with his sincere words that described real death and destruction in Gaza. It was like he was talking to us as individuals, not as a crowd.
At some point after the young Palestinian spoke, I walked back to where the Israeli’s were but they were gone. All their signs were stacked up neatly in one pile on the “border” that delineated our respective sides. Gone. Just like that. I was surprised. Had they lost heart after hearing the stirring accounting of the young Palestinian? Did they have something else to do? Did they go to get their paychecks? Did they not really care? Maybe they finally decided they weren’t getting anywhere and gave up. I’m not sure. In any case, I took it as a victory.
We marched up Market street as last week. This time, however, the march meandered off Market and stopped in front of the Chronicle building and Victoria’s Secret (BDS). There was a couple of sit-ins (or die-ins) as with the last time. Also, the Israeli flag was burnt which was another 60’s flashback. I gotta say, the cops were very cool and polite. I think the reason why that is is because the people in the crowd, along with the police, deep down know what’s happening in human history. Maybe not consciously, but for sure in the collective awareness. What’s going on is so horribly monstrous it can’t possibly be disguised or hidden from view anymore. Admittedly, this is my subjective impression. However, objectively speaking, I think it’s safe to say that we’re at major inflection point in our evolution as a species.
I personally feel that we haven’t learned the lessons that we were supposed to relating to the genocide of indigenous American Indians, the Holocaust, and the inherent racism that was necessary to bring about those events. What’s going on is pure evil. There’s no better word for it. Evil born of ignorance. People should reflect on why it is that in the 21st century we consider the barbaric brutalization of a people — who’s land was stolen – to be a subject of rational debate, on any level.
I don’t think the world will allow Israel’s racist policy to continue. The question is, will the U.S. lead or follow? If America were a principled nation, we would have no choice but to lead since we are directly culpable for the slaughter of the innocent men, women, and children whose only crime was to have their land stolen from them and who’re desperately trying to resist further oppression. There’s no hiding from the crimes committed by the Israeli occupiers which are being directly abetted by the U.S. The whole world is watching.
America’s racist hegemony is exemplified in so many instances throughout its bloody history. A lot of people are still unaware of the CIA-backed militaristic coups that we’ve sponsored throughout the world in order to overturn the will of the of the world’s indigenous populations who only desire representative government. The problem is that their reasonable goals of sovereignty and self-determination aren’t aligned with the U.S. corporate oligarchy and its military enforcers. The destabilization of regions for the ultimate goal of the control of resources and to reward political careerists is what’s paramount, not any concern for principled behavior or moral conduct. That ship sailed a long time ago. We’re so thick in the weeds of deceit it’s going to take a tremendous effort to educate the masses. While on the surface this may not seem do-able, things can change quickly. The power of social media and activism shouldn’t be underestimated.
Besides Israel, another recent manifestation of U.S. interventionism is what’s currently going on in Libya. Here’s a video posted by Khaled K. al-Hamedi (h/t: Glenn). Khaled is a Libyan humanitarian peace activist and the founder of the Tripoli based International Organization for Peace, Care and Relief ( IOPCR ). His pregnant wife, his kids, and other family members were murdered by U.S. led NATO forces in its “humanitarian” effort to liberate Libya. Yet another example of America’s blatant disregard for the sanctity of non-white human life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLr0qT8RcgM
Thanks for posting your experience.
>We’re so thick in the weeds of deceit it’s going to take a tremendous effort to educate the masses. While on the surface this may not seem do-able, things can change quickly. The power of social media and activism shouldn’t be underestimated.
Right now I just can’t believe this.
Random,
Yes, it’s easy to be fatalistic. However, that’s never how change is brought about. It happens through perseverance and hope. Struggle is a a part of being human. To acquiesce to limited beliefs is to surrender without even trying.
Tujays –
Thank you so much for your account of the SF demonstration you attended and your other thoughts. I guess I’m not alone in asking “Will anyone stop this?”
Saudi Crocodile Tears Over Gaza
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-hearst/saudi-crocodile-tears-ove_b_5628185.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
Occupation 101: Award-winning documentary film on the roots of the Palestine-Israel conflict and U.S. Government involvement.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Occupation101
@ Tujays:
Excellent post.
I would encourage everyone who happens upon this post to watch the full documentary at this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LGogkbjpRw&list=PLD6D247076445907C&index=1
After watching this documentary in full…..please try to invalidate the need to examine historical facts regarding the Zionist ideological basis of political and economic control of all people in all nation states, on all of planet Earth.
Always….follow the economic trail, throughout history. The Zionists control all the assets (land, water, food, and people) since ancient times. It is a very old game of total political and economic control. In modern times look to the International Central Bankers which are easily found at their own private bank- The Bank of International Settlements. You will find them deeply imbedded in the Crown and Crown Colonies and you will find the proceeds of wars and progroms (centuries of them) gathered in the wealth of the Vatican.
Peace.
Mr. Greenwald and Mr. Hussain
This article appears to be just a broader criticism directed at US support for the Saudi regime – and that criticism is certainly justified. That US intelligence works with the Saudis is hardly surprising. Saudi Arabia is a geopolitical ally – and has been for a long time. The Saudis view radical Islamism as a threat to their power so US intelligence works with the Saudis to expose “terror cells” in the Arabian Peninsula. The ISIS emergence makes that threat all too real. Of course, most of the 911 hijackers were of Saudi origin. The program is mutually beneficial.
In addition, the US has supplied the Patriot missile system and advanced weaponry including jets to the Saudi monarchy. Saudi Arabia and the US have been especially aligned in containing Iranian expansionism in the Middle East. When Saudi Arabia crushed the democracy revolution in Bahrain, it was certainly related to that fear. So support for the Saudi regime is driven by geopolitical and economic considerations. Human rights problems in the Arabian Peninsula are more of an embarrassment to the US government.
But what is really pathetic about this article is that the Intercept has not done a single article on the war in Syria. If the Saudi monarchy is described as “brutal”, how would you describe the Assad regime which has been cited for numerous war crimes by HRW, AI and the UN?? Over 170,000 Muslims have been killed. A true democracy movement was militarily quashed. It’s difficult to take the Intercept seriously on human rights if one of the largest abuses of human rights in the world today goes unaddressed in your news source – and clearly for political reasons. The Intercept cares about human rights within your narrow political interests – exactly what you accuse the US of doing.
Now, that’s comedy.
I do think that a news magazine focusing on foreign policy should cover all the major geopolitical events: Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Egypt, Gaza, Venezuela (you know, all the places where the US government has decided it’s entitled to butt in) and I expect that will be the case once it really gets up and running. Notice this article is still NSA-focused.
BTW, I think you miss the point of this article. It’s not about US-Saudi cooperation, which is well known. It’s not even about the fact that the US cooperates with a regime that has a deplorable human rights track record — I mean, what’s unexpected about that? It’s about the likelihood that the US is helping Saudi Arabia crack down on political dissidents. That part is also not shocking, but I don’t believe it’s an allegation that has been made previously.
“……Now, that’s comedy…….”
I’m not quite following what is so comical. The reason that the Intercept has avoided the most brutal civil war in the Middle East which has claimed the lives of over 170000 Muslims is that the US and Israel are not involved. Part of the mission statement of the Intercept is as follows:
“…….Our long-term mission is to produce fearless, adversarial journalism across a wide range of issues. The editorial independence of our journalists will be guaranteed. They will be encouraged to pursue their passions, cultivate a unique voice, and publish stories without regard to whom they might anger or alienate. We believe the prime value of journalism is its power to impose transparency, and thus accountability, on the most powerful governmental and corporate bodies, and our journalists will be provided the full resources and support required to do this…….”
It doesn’t say US government and allies. It says “governmental….”. Presumably, that means all governments, Jose. If exposing US “hypocrisy” is the mission, then state it. Quit pretending that 1000 lashes and 15 years in a Saudi prison means anything more to the Intercept than a way to criticize US intelligence and geopolitics – especially if you ignore the plight of millions of people under assault in Syria, or ignore the comfort children in Nigeria. I doubt the Intercept would have even flinched at the Green revolution in Iran let alone report it.
Oh I fully understand why the Intercept is interested in the IP conflict and US support for Saudi intelligence – and it has nothing to do with fearless adversarial journalism (try Russian journalists for that). It’s strictly driven by anti-Americanism. It’s an obsession of the far left who have absolutely zero interests in conflicts which do not involve the US (and Israel). That’s why the Tamil Tigers were completely wiped out without much fanfare. That’s why Assad can use chemical weapons and murder with impunity and never see the light of day in the Intercept.
I can’t answer the questions about The Interecept’s focus, but that has been addressed elsewhere many times. You keep insisting on the complete ridiculousness that The Intercept is not what you think it should be. It will never be that, fortunately. I’m sure there are sites that are more to your liking.
BTW, I freely admit that there are geopolitical matters that interest me more than others. It’s not that some lives are more important than others. But when violence comes accompanied by colonialism or ethnic cleansing, it’s natural to pay attention to it. When a major power unilaterally decides that a group of people should not have the government they do have, that needs to be looked into. You can call that anti-Americanism if you’d like. I’ve explained to you why that’s an arrogant label, but I’ll consider it a badge of honor.
Let’s take Ukraine. Even though government violence there is deplorable, it’s really not the same as the Gaza conflict. For one, the Ukranian rebels are not exactly defenseless. People pick up on stuff like that.
In the New York Times today, front page:
“……..The tragedy of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 drew wide attention, but the deaths of roughly 800 civilians in eastern Ukraine since April have gone virtually unnoticed by the world……..”
I’m not saying that all conflicts are equal, but I am saying that a perspective seems warranted for the various conflicts whether the the US is involved or not.
I won’t hold my breath or criticism.
Thanks Jose.
Sir,
Proof.
Please.
Gracias..
Hi suave
No one has found definitive proof, but work conducted by the UN suggests strongly that Assad used chemical weapons.
“…….A United Nations report released on Monday confirmed that a deadly chemical arms attack caused a mass killing in Syria last month and for the first time provided extensive forensic details of the weapons used, which strongly implicated the Syrian government…….While the report’s authors did not assign blame for the attack on the outskirts of Damascus, the details it documented included the large size and particular shape of the munitions and the precise direction from which two of them had been fired. Taken together, that information appeared to undercut arguments by President Bashar al-Assad of Syria that rebel forces, who are not known to possess such weapons or the training or ability to use them, had been responsible…….”
http://www.nytimes.com/…/syria-united-nations.html?
By the way, drove within about 50 miles of Spirit Lake but went to the coast.
Sorry, hopefully this will work
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/world/europe/syria-united-nations.html?…
“It’s about the likelihood that the US is helping Saudi Arabia crack down on political dissidents.”
Exactly. The NSA is providing encryption-cracking capabilities, etc. that will be used to observe, disrupt, and persecute Human Rights activists in Saudi Arabia. This was an important article. The fact that Mr. CraigSummers wants to pretend that this is “mutually beneficial” makes me wonder whose side he is on. I’m a Human, so Human Rights abuse is in no way beneficial to me.
Bob
It’s mutually beneficial if terror cells are identified by the intelligence. If the Saudis use the technology to undermine and arrest human rights activists, then it’s not mutually beneficial – nor right. No one is arguing for the Saudi state in the case where they abuse human rights (which they do). However, the article states that the goal of the program is to track individuals of “mutual interests” – and that means terrorists.
The reductio ad absurdum of your criticism, Craig, is that obviously all news sources (and virtually all anything) have to engage in selection. There is simply too much information in the world to focus on everything, and everyone knows that. The Intercept, since its inception, has been focused on NSA abuses and the decisions of the US government. Are you suggesting there is intelligence sharing going on between the US and the brutal Syrian regime? Are you suggesting the US is somehow partially responsible for “supporting” Syria? If so, please cite your sources. Defenders of governments are always quick to reply with “but, look over there!” arguments like your own, or to dismiss the substance of the opposing arguments (without addressing it) because this or that arbitrary criterion has not been met. One sees the same thing in the Israel-Palestine debates constantly: “Well, what about what Hamas has done? You only criticize Israel but not Hamas.” The fact is that you are not claiming that The Intercept is concealing information or selectively portraying it with respect to the US and Saudi Arabian governments. You’re simply declaring that because they didn’t write about something totally unrelated (except by the broad category of both being human rights abuses), they have no standing to criticize their own government for its decisions to work with brutal regimes and then falsely inflate their own position on human rights. There will always be other human rights abuses in the world and I doubt the Intercept will ever have time to cover all of them, so this amounts to just a convenient way to ignore an otherwise substantive criticism you find uncomfortable.
NotCG
I appreciate your reply. If the Intercept only covered NSA stories, then you might have a good argument. But Greenwald publishes articles on subjects that are near and dear to his heart which have nothing to do with the NSA. There have been several on Israel and other pet projects like the MSM (compared to Russian television), drones etc. There was even one unrelated to the NSA on Saudi Arabia.
So the Intercept is spreading out their coverage – just in areas typically addressed by the fringe left. It’s hard to cite human rights violations (brutal Saudis) if you ignore the conflicts with massive human rights violations like Syria. One can only conclude that the citing of human rights abuses is politically motivated within the narrow scope of interests of Greenwald. That’s why I’m rightly criticizing him.
If you are going to call yourself a news site, then ultimately, you need to publish articles other than ones that ultimately, directly or indirectly, take aim at US policies (IMO).
Thanks.
I was listening to KPFA this morning and they played excepts from the documentary, ‘Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land’. It’s about the bias of US media coverage and how it’s controlled by the Israeli propaganda machine that was put in place following the 1967 war where thousands of Arabs and Palestinians were killed. Israel saw these casualties as a public relations problem and took steps to ensure that future coverage of their illegal occupation was presented more in their favor. Among other things, the film describes how CNN issued an internal memo instructing their correspondents to refer to the illegal Israeli settlements as “neighborhoods”. It appears that youtube has the full documentary. You can see excerpts below. I highly recommend it.
Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land — U.S. Media & the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
http://www.mediaed.org/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=117
Full documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAN5GjJKAac
Shouldn’t the headline have read “NSA’s New Partner in Spying – SA’s Brutal POLICE STATE ?
Obama was put in to make totalitarianism and repression palatable and in that his handlers have succeeded beyond even their mediocre, morally bankrupt expectations. What these evil “geniuses” never factor in are the likes of Manning, Assange, Snowden, Greenwald & Poitras, etc and the handful of world citizens who are awake. We have emerged from a scenario in which we tumble into the abyss of the Ministry of “Truth” before and we will again – it is inherent in the Spirit of Man to do so.
Racist!!!!!
Wish I could upvote this comment.
Israel’s Other War
By Etgar Keret
http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/israels-other-war?src=mp
Wow how disgusting our government works with those people. That just goes to show you how hypocritical our government is and two faced. They will condemn the actions of countries just to save face, its all lip service in the end obviously as we can see from this publication. Oh the sprinkles on the cake is the spokesmen for the NSA saying “oh yeah as general principle, human rights considerations inform our decision to work with a country” while at the same time they are saying that they are working with the abusers of human rights….you cannot make this stuff up I swear. Unreal
15 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.
On that note:
http://hendersonlefthook.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/bin-laden-the-911-illusion-part-iii-secret-societies-masterminds/
An interesting strategic analysis of the war in Gaza which makes some good points (from a conservative perspective), even (especially) if you don’t agree with them.
The relevance to the present article is the role of Saudi Arabia (and Egypt):
What the article doesn’t mention is that while the Egyptian and Saudi Arabian governments would like to see Hamas destroyed and are happy in any case to see Hamas and Israel inflict damage on each other, their indifference to the fate of Palestinian civilians may ultimately undermine them in the eyes of their own people. Supporting foreign wars can sometimes rebound against you in unexpected ways.
Only about 3% of Egyptians support Israel. That just comes to show how unrepresentative of their population the current Egyptian government is, but that’s probably the least of its flaws.
“Well they blew the horns, and the walls came down..” -the call
Johnny-lad..
“Implied”?? How does referencing the Department of Commerce’s (NIST) *officially-documented study, equate to an implication?
I’ve concluded “that there is a piece of data that shows free-fall”.
Seriously? This is the point in our conversation where you refute how the *data point in question is non-conclusive.
*NIST Report:
The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)*
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity
http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtc7.cfm
ps.. For future reference:
suave, John Kelly is a commentator with whom you’ve found much to agree with on these threads. Why would you doubt his out-of-hand dismissal of WTC conspiracy theory?
Again, what is your conclusion based on this bit of data? Quit beating around the bush and share it with the rest of us, will you?
@ suave:
Common sense is a commodity which elludes some of the best intellectuals. It rises from the gut and involves coordination of left and right brain activity.
Some people can not be influenced to recognize truth because the official narrative regarding 9/11 was programmed deeply through the Main Stream Media propaganda. They are either brainwashed or intent upon promoting the lies.
For those that are not, the facts, and discrepancies with those facts, as reported in the Official Narrative of the events of 11 Sep 2001 are clearly put forth here: http://www.911truth.org/
Those that are interested in the truth, will see the truth.
Concur. Here’s a recent synopsis from the “real straight-shooter, Paul Craig Roberts”:
June 1, 2014 –The 24-member 9/11 Consensus Panel – which includes physicists, chemists, engineers, commercial pilots, attorneys and lawyers – today announced three new studies confirming the controlled demolition of World Trade Center 7.
The studies scientifically refute the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) claim that, for the first time in history, fire caused the sudden and complete collapse of a large, fire-protected, steel-framed building on 9/11.
(Note that whereas the Consensus Panel uses a scientific methodology to peer-review its work, the NIST report was not peer-reviewed.)
The first Panel study deals with the NIST computer simulations, which purported to show that fire-induced thermal expansion caused a girder to be pushed off its seat at Column 79, thereby initiating a global collapse of the entire 47-story building at 5:21 in the afternoon.
http://www.consensus911.org/point-wtc7-5/
However, a recent FOIA request has produced WTC 7 architectural drawings showing that the NIST simulations omitted basic structural supports that would have made this girder failure impossible.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/06/03/wtc-7-now-proven-case-controlled-demolition/
Concur. Here’s a recent synopsis from the “real straight-shooter, Paul Craig Roberts”:
June 1, 2014 –The 24-member 9/11 Consensus Panel – which includes physicists, chemists, engineers, commercial pilots, attorneys and lawyers – today announced three new studies confirming the controlled demolition of World Trade Center 7.
The studies scientifically refute the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) claim that, for the first time in history, fire caused the sudden and complete collapse of a large, fire-protected, steel-framed building on 9/11.
(Note that whereas the Consensus Panel uses a scientific methodology to peer-review its work, the NIST report was not peer-reviewed.)
The first Panel study deals with the NIST computer simulations, which purported to show that fire-induced thermal expansion caused a girder to be pushed off its seat at Column 79, thereby initiating a global collapse of the entire 47-story building at 5:21 in the afternoon.
However, a recent FOIA request has produced WTC 7 architectural drawings showing that the NIST simulations omitted basic structural supports that would have made this girder failure impossible.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/06/03/wtc-7-now-proven-case-controlled-demolition/
*note: second attempt (..first had two links)
“today announced three new studies confirming the controlled demolition of World Trade Center 7.”
Is this what you were so coy about? This is your conclusion? This shit is like pulling teeth, but finally we get to what you think happened.
I see a lot of talk about discrepancies in the original study which may or not be true (would not surprise me)… this is a long way from proving anything like what you are suggesting… or are appearing to suggest… hard to tell since you will not make a declarative statement as to what you think happened.
The lack of a component or components in the simulation is not by itself proof of something else, is it?
Please provide evidence from a credible source or sources of a controlled demolition. Should be easy to find with such a large building and so many witnesses.
While you are it, what is your theory as to why this was done?
JK..
If the *officially-documented 2.25 seconds of free fall from the NIST survey doesn’t at the very least make you question their ‘conclusion’ that a common structure-fire enabled this event, then….
http://www.thenation.com/blog/180808/why-it-matters-norman-finkelstein-just-got-arrested-outside-israeli-consulate?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=onsite
note: capitalized emphasis, mine.
ht`lyra
Well, that was pathetic. I thought you might have some evidence of something…. not just more bullshit. Get somebody else to take up the discussion for you. You suck at it.
This coming from the gov patsy who is bending over and spreading their cheeks for a discredited gov study? Fuk’n classic.. So, does the gov include ‘dental’ w/ your benefits package, Blue-shirt?
I have not made any claims about the government study. I neither support nor condemn it. You apparently can’t back up what you are implying with any facts other than those in the government study you seem so obsessed with. I asked you multiple questions on this, and you have failed to answer even what should be the most simple among them.
You really should get help. There must be someone out there better at this than you are.
You attempt at insult would go further if based in something resembling actual things I said… funny how that works…. or in your case, doesn’t.
Act X.
Right. You claim that truthers are nut-jobs, but you have no opinion on a study that would support said claim. How disingenuous of you.
What you have yet to comprehend, is that the facts from said ‘government study’ are all I need to QUESTION the official-narrative.
Case in point..
‘NIST admits their report is not consistent with basic principles of physics’
This snippet of David Ray Griffins essay is specifically about the 2.25 second free fall decent of WTC-7 which if one believes the official 9/11 story means that a MIRACLE OCCURRED when this building collapsed as it IGNORED THE LAWS OF PHYSICS for over 2.25 seconds.
Even if some readers question whether the two previously discussed features of the collapse of WTC 7, when understood within the framework of NIST’s fire theory, imply miracles, there can be no doubt about a third feature: the now-accepted (albeit generally unpublicized) fact that WTC 7 came down in absolute free fall for over two seconds.
Although members of the 9/11 Truth Movement had long been pointing out that this building descended at the same rate as a free-falling object, or at least virtually so, NIST had long denied this. As late as August 2008, when NIST issued its report on WTC 7 in the form of a Draft for Public Comment, it claimed that the time it took for the upper floors – the only floors that are visible on the videos – to come down “was approximately 40 percent longer than the computed free fall time and was consistent with physical principles.”
As this statement implied, any assertion that the building did come down in free fall, assuming a non-engineered collapse, would not be consistent with physical principles – meaning basic laws of Newtonian physics. Explaining why not during a “WTC 7 Technical Briefing” on August 26, 2008, NIST’s Shyam Sunder said:
“[A] free fall time would be [the fall time of] AN OBJECT THAT HAS NO STRUCTURAL COMPONENTS BELOW IT. . . . [T]he . . . time that it took . . . for those 17 floors to disappear [was roughly 40 percent longer than free fall]. And that is not at all unusual, because there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place. Everything was not instantaneous.”
In saying this, Sunder was presupposing NIST’s theory that the building was brought down by fire, which, if it could have produced a collapse of any type, could have produced only a progressive collapse.
In response, high-school physics teacher *David Chandler, who was allowed to submit a question at this briefing, challenged Sunder’s denial of free fall, stating that Sunder’s “40 percent longer” claim contradicted “a publicly visible, easily measurable quantity.” Chandler then placed a video on the Internet showing that, by measuring this publicly visible quantity, anyone understanding elementary physics could see that “for about two and a half seconds. . . , the acceleration of the building is indistinguishable from free fall.” (This is, of course, free fall through the air, not through a vacuum.)
In its final report on WTC 7, which came out in November 2008, NIST – rather amazingly – ADMITTED FREE FALL. Dividing the building’s descent into three stages, NIST described the second phase as “a freefall descent over approximately eight stories at gravitational acceleration for approximately 2.25 seconds.” NIST thereby accepted Chandler’s case – except for maintaining that the building was in absolute free fall for only 2.25, not 2.5, seconds (a trivial difference). NIST thereby AFFIRMED A MIRACLE, meaning a violation of one or more laws of physics.
Why this would be a miracle was explained by Chandler, who said:
Explaining one of the physical principles involved, Chandler said:
That was what Sunder himself had explained, on NIST’s behalf, the previous August, saying that a free-falling object would be one “that has no structural components below it” to offer resistance. But NIST then in November, while still under Sunder’s leadership and still defending its fire theory of WTC 7’s collapse, agreed that, as an empirical fact, FREE FALL HAPPENED. For a period of 2.25 seconds, NIST admitted, the descent of WTC 7 was characterized by “gravitational acceleration (free fall).”
Besides pointing out that the free fall descent of WTC 7 implied that the building had been professionally demolished, Chandler observed that this conclusion is reinforced by two features of the collapse mentioned above:
For its part, NIST, knowing that it had affirmed a miracle by agreeing that WTC 7 had entered into free fall, no longer claimed that its analysis was consistent with the laws of physics. Back in its August draft, in which it was still claiming that the collapse occurred 40 percent slower than free fall, NIST had said – in a claim made three times – that its analysis was “consistent with physical principles.” In the final report, however, EVERY INSTANCE OF THIS PHRASE HAD BEEN REMOVED. NIST thereby almost explicitly admitted that its report on WTC 7, by affirming absolute free fall while continuing to deny that either incendiaries or explosives had been employed, is not consistent with basic principles of physics.
Accordingly, now that it is established that WTC 7 came down in absolute free fall for over two seconds, ONE CANNOT ACCEPT THE OFFICIAL THEROY, according to which this building was not professionally demolished, without implying that at least one miracle happened on 9/11.
David Chandler’s Video: http://www.youtube.com/
note: capitalized emphasis, mine..
You have not answered my questions. You have repeated the same thing over and over again. You are a disingenuous and feeble debate partner. I tried to get some information from you, so that I could understand your obsession, but you are incapable of answering simple question on the subject with anything but the same repetitive talking points… nothing new.
Are you a 9/11 truther-response algorithm or a person? I have seen posts by you on other subjects that seem perfectly intelligent, so you have me stumped. Carry on with your obsession if you must, but as I said before you suck at it. Your attempt to identify me as a government stooge is particularly laughable to anyone who knows me, and is a sure sign that you have nothing…. that and your inability to answer simple questions on your pet subject.
Actually, I have. (.. which now makes you a disingenuous liar)
From a previous thread:
This one’s self-explanatory. (..think in terms of investigating oneself)*
Pending.
No.
No. This is a ‘theory’ that you’ve disingenuously fabricated as a means to validate your irrational opinion.
*You do know that the NIST never tested for explosives in their study, correct?
I have come to no conclusions other than one about you. I was prepared to go down the rabbit hole of trutherism and see if there was anything there.
Unfortunately, you were not prepared to present your own conclusions about who did what and why… the fucking basics. If you are trying to make a point, you have failed. Kudos for epic word-salad though.
Insinuation takes the place of conclusion in your world.
Please answer each of these very challenging questions:
What happened?
How did it happen?
Who did it?
Why did they do it?
How did they get away with it?
You don’t know, or you aren’t sharing because you think people will laugh at you. I get it.
Act Xl.
Fuk’n hilarious!! As if the evidence I’ve referenced, or my personal opinion are inhibiting your venture “down the rabbit hole”. This was your lamest response, yet.
Yo brainiac.. How does one come to a conclusion when one is still questioning the * official evidence from the study.
Please explain to the class how the *officially-documented study that I’ve referenced, is an INSINUATION.
The Department of Commerce (NIST) published a report that states that there were 2.5 seconds of free fall.
According to the report, a common structure-fire.
I don’t know who was responsible for the evidence in said report.
To provide the rationale for how the building in question was reduced to rubble.
They’re the gov, silly.
More comic-relief, Sideshow?! Like one would give a fuk’ about being mocked online..
Ps.. This isn’t definitive, but it’s in my humble opinion that you have yet to answer any of my retort-based questions.
next..
I see. Let me make this simple for you. I have slightly modified my questions to take into account your lack of understanding them as previously phrased.
I could not care less about your fixation with this study. I am not not pro or con in regards to this study. I do not know what to conclude from the study, because there is not enough evidence for me to form an educated opinion. Perhaps you too have been unable to form an educated opinion? That is what I am trying to find out.
Please answer these questions… if you are genuinely misunderstanding my questions and are not being deliberately obtuse, that is … a hint for you, these questions have nothing to do with the study… I’m not asking you about the study. I’m asking what YOU think actually happened the day the building went down, now do you get it?
What do YOU think happened?
How do YOU think it happened?
Who do YOU think did it?
Why do YOU think they did it?
How do YOU think they got away with it?
Yesterday in the metro. A man next to me looked at the beautiful sunflower in his hand. I looked to at the beautiful sunflower. I wondered about the story but did not want to ask. And I also did not want to stare at him. The train stopped and I prepared myself to leave. He looked at me and smiled. Here, for you. I left the metro with a smile – and a huge sunflower in my hand.
say it with flowers..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiWGvEOe5kk
keller..
Tragic news. Will there be an open-casket memorial for said ‘sunflower’?
You understand the flower better than us. I did not realize that a beautiful flower can be so sad.
95,000 souls remains were impossible to recover from one large French field for having been blasted into bits. The only thing that grew in the mud was poppies. Now it’s a whole grief industry, those poppies.
Just read chap 2 of Davies book and even more glad Greenslade commented upon my cutting commentary at HP. Fucking Coulson, may he bring down Cameron like Nixon’s!!
My stepfather had green fingers and did never forget the roses for my mum. She loves her poppies. I visited her and she said: The poppies are gone. It was a fantastic poppies season this year. Some love poppies, some love roses.
What you sow you reap so I guess think twice before taking an action..
Search people using their mobile number:
http://www.phonesiteko.com/
http://www.rall.com/comic/war-and-peace-made-in-usa
Tribute to Gaza
http://humanizepalestine.com/
I will never forget watching the shooting of Salem Khaleel Shamaly. He was searching for missing family members in the rubble of Shuja’iyya when an Israeli sniper shot him. Multiple times. During a ceasefire.
@ Pedinska:
This is breathtaking and heart wrenching.
Thank you for posting here.
If you do not mind, I would like to copy your full comment to post on the comments of this piece:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/21/netanyahus-telegenically-dead-comment-original/
Feel free to replicate anything you think helpful.
We are all on a learning curve, no matter our experience. So the more we hear/read/see, the better informed we are to make decisions, especially those in complicated realms. What I have benefited from I hope to pass on.
We sometimes are scornful – or maybe just perplexed – at those who are ahead of, or behind, us on that curve. We shouldn’t be. We may very well be headed in the same direction, toward the same goal. They’re just in a different place on the road.
Think of all the children and women that “Hamas” has used in their fight against the Jew’s, Wow!
Your “talking points” are disgusting on this sub thread and speak only to your inhumane mission and lack of heart of soul.
Israel has started bombing what is left
of Shejaiya today. The goal seems to be
to make Palestinians believe that giving up and getting out is the best choice. Hundreds of thousands are now homeless.
If everything is destroyed what choice do the people of Gaza have?
Do you have a link?
https://www.twitter.com/katebt3000
Searching but find only this:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/gaza-lies-ruins-israel-war-201472794647457501.html
There is a 22 minute video at aljazeera.com entitled Shujayea:Massacre at Dawn. It’s in Arabic with English subtitles.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2014/2014/07/shujayea-massacre-at-dawn-201472621348901563.html
Iarry –
I made myself watch the video. Horrific is the only word that comes to mind. How can anyone NOT be moved by the situation of the Gazans – unless one has a heart of stone or something, I guess.
To the people of Gaza –
People walking, but where will they go?
People crying, but who will hear?
Families torn apart, but who will help heal?
Homes destroyed, lives upended, will there be any hope?
May our ears be open to hear and our hearts be softened to care.
I think they should get out of Gaza temporarily if they can, while the sociopathic regime has its tantrum. Better to be alive without a home than dead. I’m hopeful that the world will stick it to Israel and will assist Gazans generously in rebuilding their homeland.
The hell of it is that they can’t ‘get out’.
How do you break out of a prison exactly?
They are Khazars….Inside the Saudi 911 Coverup http://nypost.com/2013/12/15/inside-the-saudi-911-coverup/ NY Post
“A pair of lawmakers who recently read the redacted portion say they are “absolutely shocked” at the level of foreign state involvement in the attacks.
Reps. Walter Jones (R-NC) and Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.) “
‘Twitterville’ News Flash..
Anti war protest in Tel Aviv getting huge. Smaller pro war rally in distance. Riot police everywhere. pic.twitter.com/RiUAXJdent
https://twitter.com/alexhart7/status/493093313780539392
I dream about a planet where we are afforded the human dignity of free-will choice – the right to choose peace over war, without the domination of puppet governments acting on behalf of the international Central Banking Cartel. The road to freedom:
“Jews and Arabs refuse to be enemies: Social media campaign goes viral (PHOTOS)”
http://rt.com/news/175792-jews-arabs-refuse-enemies/
Lyra1 and everyone –
Great to see something about this posted here!
Yes, I have seen about the “Jews and Arabs Refuse to be Enemies” social media campaign. I think it’s a great thing those two young college students have started. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to join in as I’m not on facebook – or twitter.
@ feline16:
I also think that social networks are enabling devices for government spy networks and refuse to feed into their machinations of mass surveillance. I force them to intercept my communications via servers and cables, or backdoor software and equipment plants. But I also fight back with blocking software. Perhaps a losing battle but at least I try.
Finding positive efforts in combating the essence of terrorism is difficult but certainly worth posting here, when noted.
Thanks Feline.
‘Bill Owen in the Wind..’
re: Five Eyes (FVEY) in Unison
Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau;
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/26/trudeau_falls_in_line_with_harpers_stance_on_gaza.html
ht`Haroon Siddiqui
*Capitalized emphasis, mine.
Saudi involvement with ISIS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLdNLmBKayk
The US has recently overtaken Saudi Arabia as the world’s largest oil producer. While current laws prevent the export of crude oil, refining capacity in the US is limited and those laws will be changed, or at least by-passed. As an exporter of crude oil, the US will be looking to join OPEC; so it is only natural they wish to remain in the Saudis’ good graces.
Both countries should therefore be able to agree on the definition of a terrorist as anyone who seeks to limit global fossil fuel consumption.
The US is calling things that are not oil “oil” to make the claim of surpassing the Saudis in oil extraction. It’s disinformation.
The US is an IMPORTER of crude oil. The US exports a small amount of refined petroleum products but in no way is an exporter.
Fossil fuels allowed our population to zoom from under a billion to over seven billion today. As they decline avoiding further chaos and conflict is going to be an unprecedented challenge. We will be using less fossil fuels as they decline whether we want to or not.
We have to torture them over there, or we’ll have to torture them over here.
Must admit that after those pictures from Gaza, the Saudis have lost a bit of their aura of putrid exceptionalism. Monsters monsters everywhere.
STAY AT HOME (MENTIONED IN PASSPORT) AND ,
Please message all complaints and queries to :
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments
AND
http://www.saudi.gov.sa/wps/portal/!ut/p/b0/04_Sj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOId3Z2dgj1NjAz8zUMMDTxNzZ2NHU0NDQ0czfULsh0VAZTQGZ4!/u
Strange how, in the midst of the Gaza massacre, Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald at his vanity blog The Intercept, funded by billionaire Pierre Omidyar (who also funded the CIA front Centre UA to destabilize Ukraine and help create the conditions for a neo-Nazi coup) did an expose on the NSA’s links to the “brutal” Saudi Arabian police. Given that Greenwald has access to all NSA documents, wouldn’t it have been more relevant to do an expose on the NSA’s links to the “brutal” Israeli police? (like that will ever happen) Then again,Paris-born Pierre, son of exile Iranians, is angling for the restoration of the Shah’s “brutal” regime in Iran. It’s also strange that Gigi’s sidekick, Jeremy Scahill a few days earlier broke a story about the UG Government’s “terrorist watch list”, letting everyone know that the CIA supports Judeo-Fascism in Israel and that only Muslims – and people who support Hamas —
go on the blacklist. All of which closely resembles CIA psywar. In fact, I bet if someone who know’s what the definition of ‘is,’ is — if you get my drift (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) — were here, a real straight-shooter like Paul Craig Roberts or Chris Hedges or Doug Valentine, someone with some sense of reality, as it is commonly defined, and proportions. Really. Like, you know? Man?
Hello Adam – For instructional and illustrative purposes, let’s look at just some of the ways your comment is deranged, irrational, and shaped by the feverish contradictions that characterize the worst internet conspiracy theorizing:
1) I’ve previously reported on NSA cooperation with the Israeli intelligence agency – here – and it included numerous significant documents and revelations. Your entire accusation is based on the totally baseless fantasy that we have numerous other significant documents about such cooperation that we are hiding.
In other words, in order to spew your accusations, you came here and fabricated a claim.
2) Jeremy Scahill has been running around the media the last two weeks denouncing the US media for being too pro-Israel. My Twitter feed has been little other than non-stop denunciations of Israel for the carnage in Gaza. Just four days ago, I wrote in this very space comparing the dehumanization comments of Netanyahu and Gobbels. Two days before that, I broke the story of how NBC had removed an Egyptian-American reporter from Gaza – renowned for his brave coverage of Israeli aggression – and NBC was then forced to return him there.
The idea that we’re barred or limited in how we can report on Israel is not just blatantly baseless ranting; it’s contradicted by all available evidence. It’s also just painfully stupid.
3) As soon as you’re done pronouncing that Big, Bad Pierre bars us from reporting on Israel, you explain that “Jeremy Scahill a few days earlier broke a story about the UG Government’s ‘terrorist watch list’, letting everyone know that the CIA supports Judeo-Fascism in Israel.” You can’t even keep track of your own fantasies.
4) As is depressingly common for pseudo-radicals, you’re a revolting bigot: feminizing the names of gay men (“Gigi’s sidekick”) and spewing innuendo about people based on their ethnicity and national origin (“Paris-born Pierre, son of exile Iranians, is angling for the restoration of the Shah’s “brutal” regime in Iran”).
(5) Your admiration and yearning for the “real straight-shooter Paul Craig Roberts” is bizarre in the context of your accusatory spewing; aside from the fact that Roberts has repeatedly praised my reporting over the years, here’s what your “real straight-shooter” wrote just a week ago:
Chris Hedges has been similarly generous in praising my work for many, many years.
How do you explain all of that to yourself?
6) As for this – “at his vanity blog The Intercept,” – it’s always notable how readily pseudo-radicals adopt the slurs of the most establishment media figures. Whatever else is true, The Intercept employs close to two dozen well-regarded and highly experienced journalists and editors (employed either directly or via FLM), and is rapidly growing through hiring as we speak. Its news articles are worked on by the former Director of Research for Associated Press (now First Look’s Director of Research), vetted by the former General Counsel of New Yorker (now GC of FLM), edited by the long-time Executive Editor of Rolling Stone (now FLM Editor), and shaped by a team of data and tech specialists. In the few months that it has existed, it has broken numerous stories that the largest media outlets in the world were forced to summarize and report. Whatever else you want to call that, “vanity blog” does not apply.
7) I’ve said before that we have more documents regarding Israel that we intend to report, and we will: right in this very space. But they are not what you’ve imagined them to be. When we do report them, be sure to come back and explain how humiliatingly wrong you were. I won’t be holding my breath, since if you had even a fraction of the rationality and honesty needed for that, you’d never have come here to spew your accusations in the very same week when both Jeremy and i have written and spoken endlessly against Israeli aggression: the very topic you idiotically claim we’re barred from reporting.
8) As is so often the case, people who spout these accusations are revealing far more about themselves than anyone else. The reason you believe that we’re all willing to take orders from Pierre about what we can and can’t say is because YOU apparently live your life that way: willing to trade your integrity for a job. So you assume that the complete absence of integrity and independence that plagues you must plague everyone else. It doesn’t.
Thanks for commenting BTL at your “vanity blog” Glenn. I didn’t get the, what I guess was some kind of a joke, about what the meaning of ‘is’ is. Maybe Adam Engel will further explain that upon his return to explain himself after your rebuttal post. In the meantime, everyone should not miss the link to Scahill that you posted.
Greg Mitchell has also been doing a commendable job of documenting the tragically abysmal US coverage of the Gaza-Israel massacre.
Glenn Greenwald should learn to pull his punches a little. This troll may not be coming back after this pounding. Contrary to popular belief, there isn’t an infinite supply of fresh trolls. It was fun hunting the bison as well – nobody imagined their numbers could ever run out. Let’s not wait for trolls to become an endangered species before taking some action to protect them.
You may argue the troll started it, but the response should be proportionate. The troll was an intellectual lightweight, but Glenn Greenwald responded with heavy intellectual firepower.
>”You may argue the troll started it, but the response should be proportionate. The troll was an intellectual lightweight, but Glenn Greenwald responded with heavy intellectual firepower.”
The ‘troll’ in question is most likely a fiendishly tarzie-designed computer algorithm.
*It was a clean death, a cyber-warriors death, with no collateral damage … so far Benitoe!
Your wisdom is priceless, Duce.
Your wisdom is priceless, Duce.
Certainly adds a bit of kick to the punch.
“It was fun hunting the bison as well – nobody imagined their numbers could ever run out. ”
Wrong! The bison was systematically and intentionally eradicated in order to wipeout the Plains Indians.
Another way to look at it is that he wasn’t responding to this troll in particular, but to the trolling narrative he was using, which does come up a lot.
>”I broke the story of how NBC had removed an Egyptian-American reporter from Gaza – renowned for his brave coverage of Israeli aggression – and NBC was then forced to return him there.”
Where is he ‘there’? I’m watching Meet David Gregory (as I write) and it is Engle on the ground in Gaza.
So is Ayman: https://twitter.com/aymanm
Thx. … I will add him to my twitter list. (& try to forget the Meet David Gregory show.)
Ouch.
“willing to trade your integrity for a job’ was a little speculative…maybe even libelous.
All I got from Adam Engel’s post is that Omidyar and The Intercept are “angling” to take over Iran, and to justify Israeli police brutality, and are somehow responsible for the Malaysian plane being brought down. And that “paris born” and “son of exile Iranians” are pejoratives. But it’s funny that it set Glenn off. I wasn’t expecting that :D
But it’s funny that it set Glenn off. I wasn’t expecting that :D
You try sitting still for a non-stop barrage of near-bonobo-relative patties and see how you feel. ;-}
Glenn,
A whole several-paragraphs long comment of yours in direct reply to vegan red’s July 25, 6:33 PM post on this thread disappeared only minutes after a one-sentence response to you from deborah appeared (taking the latter with it).
Do you have any explanation for why that would have happened?
Ah, yes, shades of 9/11…when the USA! USA! USA! was attacked by…Saudi Arabians in the huge majority.
I honestly don’t understand how any clear thinking individual could possibly believe the official narrative regarding 9/11. It runs so contrary to common sense. The sheer amount of facts and discrepancies as to why this story can not possibly be accurate are overwhelming; and the number of people requesting clarification regarding the same, are both valid reasons to raise this issue for further explanation. Those facts and discrepancies can be found, in detail at:
http://www.911truth.org/
If ones believes that the US Government would not lie regarding this matter, and would not dictate the “official narrative” to the MSM for broadcast; then that individual would be very naive or intent upon promoting that lie.
Kean and Hamilton (the co-chairs of the 911 commission) have joined the calls for the release of the 28 withheld pages from the congressional inquiry. I would eat my hat (and more) if they don’t show clearly the involvement of Saudi intelligence in the 911 events.
Here Representative Massie (having read the missing pages) explains how “it challenges you to re-think everything”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItE28oeMnas
Thanks Myers.
I caught that clip when it was first posted but I am glad that you posted it here.
You have reaffirmed my faith and hope for intelligence in the American population.
I expected more exposure for this story in the main stream press. There must be a directive out there not to report on it, the news outlets are dutifully following. Or is anything negative about Saudi Arabia automatically ignored? Some foreign press, the so-called bad guys, and the underground news sites here, have picked it up. I suppose you know all this.
Glenn, Murtaza, were you expecting this silence?
DEATH to the HOUSE of SAUD !
The Saudis are an asset. They sell us products. We sell them a ,lot of products, generating jobs. Other than that it is none of our business how the country is run. This would not be true if we provided aid. Then whatever crimes are committed America is complicit in. To the extent that racism promoted by recipients our face to the world is scarred. Such regimes are liabilities. Countries that do not forward bills to Washington need no oversight. Nations that get aid should be required to meet our standards of decency. Aid is not mandatory. If you take the King’s shilling, you do the King’s bidding.
Saudi Arabia and Israel were afraid of the Jihadists. They formed an alliance to combat it.
Saudi Arabia provided the hijackers and money, while Israel’s Mossad provided operational expertise to make the USA fight the Jihadists for them.
Voila! you have the attacks on the USA of 9-11-01.
Dosen’t Obamalook soo happy in this picture?
The WORST President of the USA is really having a good time.
Follow the money… The Saudi kingdom provides the US with 1.5 to 2.0 million barrels of oil daily. Each barrel costs about $140. You do the math.
@ josephine related:
Speaking of that…following the money. There is an excellent video called “The Best Enemies Money Can Buy – An Interview with Professor Antony C. Sutton” attached to the following article – which broadly addresses the concept of “terrorism” in relation to recent world events and the role that the USA is playing in financing those conflicts and wars which ultimately serve the economic interests of the elite.
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/are-there-any-terrorist-groups-who.html#more
The video pertains to US financing of wars starting from WWII and specifies precisely which corporations and banks profited immensely from those wars.
BOHICA!
Great story. Well written and documented. Keep up the good work FirstLook!
If you’re so outraged and opinionated fellow commentors then take your concerns to the streets, or to your local elected officials and government agencies. Short of any broadstroked illegal hacking operation into major social media websites (which I don’t and will not ever condone!) any dissent posted in online comment sections will never bring about change. Grabbing a piece a wood, some markers and paper and showing PHYSICALLY your opinions are much more productive and can bring more awareness. Sadly until FirstLook and it’s staff can somehow manage to get in the living rooms of all Americans like CBS, FOX, etc… you are only speaking to being who are of similar beliefs.
Oliver Stone is proving to be a prophet, our generations are becoming more and more physically inactive in protesting their government’s wrongdoings.
Totally wrong. Of course the ‘in the streets’ outcome is the intended result of educating the people. Educating the people and motivating the people to take action beyond social media, including comment boards, takes place … on social media and on comment boards. To dismiss these conversations as a substitute for physical world activism is completely missing the point of how twitter, face-book, The Intercept, Truthout, Popular Resistance, and alternet are helping to educate and to motivate people to come together and to act.
@ MarTar:
Perhaps you have not noticed the televised media attention that The Intercept articles have been generating of late, most notably on Democracy Now, Russian TV Network, Press TV Network, NBC and numerous others. These are monumental advances which will help to bring the truth into “the living rooms of all Americans” but more importantly, as some are international News Media outlets; it will broadcast the information internationally.
Comments being made on these threads are relevant to assist with the scope of information that can be disseminated given the highly repressive structure of nation state governments in their attempts to quell public dissent of their respective governed populaces, e.g.; direct implementation of martial law.
If one were truly interested in advancing the message of First Look Media enterprises, one would encourage, not discourage, comments on their threads.
Well, even at it’s worst, comments is an indication of voter angst. If you’re a politician, I’m sure you’ll take note.
Dear MarTar –
First I must echo Kitt and Lyra1 – especially: ” if one were truly interested in advancing the message of First Look Media enterprises, one would encourage, not discourage, comments on their threads.”
Nevertheless I do wish there were more direct things we could do. Myself, joining a protest is generally difficult since they happen mainly in major cities and how would I get there? I also wonder how effective protests are unless extremely massive. They keep protesters so far away from “decision makers” who are so insulated these days. Protests generate very little MSM coverage – you have to really search any such news.
We have also discussed before why folks aren’t more up in arms: things like economic worries, lack of knowledge (which Kitt and Lyra1 have pointed out are attempting to change), and even fear of what might happen to them at a protest.
I find the comment threads here valuable personally for the info folks share and insights that give me food for thought. And sometimes, it feels good to vent as well!
Many share some of your impatience for action. But just don’t proverbially throw the baby out with the dishwater.
There are many ways other than major protests in major cities to express, educate, grow awareness and take part in activism. For example, 4th or July parades all over the US have traditionally been about celebrating what is mostly the myth of America. This year I noticed an encouraging turn with activist contingents being recognized for their contributions in the parades. I wrote about it and it was published at Popular Resistance.
Activist Floats Honored Nation Wide In Fourth of July Parades
The link I posted in my first reply to MarTaR, which was from alternet high lighted in red was this: Why People Are Organizing to End US Empire–By Kevin Zeese and Margaret Flowers
Difficult to choose one excerpt over any other in the article but I’ll use the following as a sample excerpt to get the attention of readers.
The economic impact of Empire policy is going to take a new turn as nations become allies outside of US influence. This week was the beginning of an alternative to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as the BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) officially launched the BRICS Development Bank. This comes at the same time that 78 nations have called for a new era where there is respect for the sovereignty of nations and policies that seek economic, environmental and social justice. Many nations of the world are fighting back against US hegemony.
Empire Economy Causing Unrest
Not only are governments challenging US dominance, but people are fighting back as well. A wave of revolts, not only in the US but around the world, against big finance capitalism that allows transnational corporations to dominate the world economy has the power structure, including bankers, on heightened alert. The US military has been spending tens of millions since 2008 in the Minerva Project studying how protest movements develop and go viral. This week we learned the military was studying how to control emotions by manipulating social media. We also learned that spy agencies also have tools to manipulate social media in order to control people.
Thanks, Kitt –
I do remember you posting about your experience in a parade – with your group carrying the Costitutional Amendments and advocating for the proposed one.
Great that you had a group to join with. I have found out about a peace group fairly close to home here and contacted them. We’ll see how that goes.
It is all in the virtual world so the virtual protest may work best. I already do a lot of virtual protest by fasting virtually. So I can go on eating yummy ice-cream.
We read: ‘At the time of the al-Khair sentencing, State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki issued a statement saying, “We urge the Saudi government to respect international human rights norms, a point we make to them regularly.”’
Translation: “We assure the American people we take action to protect international human rights norms, a puff of hot air we send their way regularly.”
It’s almost impossible to believe that the government of the United States would be assisting a regime that exists to subjugate and repress it’s own people, but this is obviously the truth of the matter.
Anyone reading this report should now have no doubt whatsoever that the United States and it’s brand of Democracy is an outright lie; look at us, we mouth all sorts of admonitions to other nations about human rights while we ignore and abuse the rights of our own citizens and the citizens of any nation we choose to, anywhere on the planet.
How dare the President we thought we elected, our Congress, our Supreme Court, and our NSA, work contrary to our wishes and mandates as clearly defined in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.
Our government and its agencies that collude in such abrogation, are clearly committing treason, and consequently the individuals within our government and its agencies who orchestrate and permit these treasonous activities need to be impeached in the case of Obama, and as may be appropriate charged, arrested, indicted, and jailed.
And if any action can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt, to have resulted in the death of anyone, then the responsible party should be subjected to the legal punishment permitted, including, the death penalty.
Absolutely outrageous.
Almost 70 years on the planet, and now I must watch our nation become the totalitarian state it sought to label others.
What an embarrassment we’ve become.
It’s almost impossible to believe that the government of the United States would be assisting a regime that exists to subjugate and repress it’s own people,
Dictators supported by the US
An admirably long list; but it would be even longer if you included dictators the US initially supported, but who then unfortunately fell out of favor due to changing circumstances.
The admiration appeared to be mutual.
An admirably long list; but it would be even longer if you included dictators the US initially supported, but who then unfortunately fell out of favor due to changing circumstances.
But it does. Saddam Hussein being just the most recent (that I am aware of) example.
It’s not my own list, btw. I probably should have posted the disclaimer included at the head of the list, but I wasn’t sure how much space TI would give me for such a long, long, long post.
So your omission was just an oversight.
Thank you. From my experience, constantly hyping yourself creates an underlying feeling of insecurity based on the nagging fear of being exposed as a fraud. So validation by the US, the world’s strongest military power, is very important to dictators. Even though intellectually one knows the support is based mostly on a desire to sell military equipment, it still touches you emotionally.
Just think, though, Duce, if you had stayed neutral in WWII just like General Franco, you could have served out your Premier-for-Life term like he did. Maybe even leave Alessandra as your successor. And — get this — you would have been on the US payroll 1945-1975 or so as an ally, and a leader of a Free World nation in our fight against the Soviet menace.
There really is wisdom in the saying, è dolce far niente, at least in statecraft.
From my experience, constantly hyping yourself creates an underlying feeling of insecurity based on the nagging fear of being exposed as a fraud.
No worries Mr. Mussolini, the fraudulence you share with us in these threads is, almost without exception, a thing of amusing beauty.
@ Mr. Mussolini:
Of course nothing can compare with your firsthand experience, yet one cannot help but note a common economic interest between Allies and the Axis powers during that time period. Perhaps that is why you and President Roosevelt had a mutually respectful relationship. Anyway, certainly the Vatican played a large part in disseminating the mutual acquisitions of that conflict and that might also have contributed to the pleasant exchange between the two leaders. Anyway….I am attaching a clip related to those mutual interests to support your claims.
“ROTHSCHILD CONTROLS PRIVATE BANK OF ENGLAND – WORKED WITH BUSH & HITLER”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chKh5xiHbz8
@ Pedinska:
Thank you.
Most definitely bookmarked.
Thank you for that list of suffering we have aided and enabled.
Whilst I’m very much aware of our actions to prevent real liberty from occurring in many nations, I’ve always presumed (erroneously obviously), that our world domination tendencies would die off, and our better nature might endure.
It’s an old story, going back to Smedley Butler’s day, at least. The tinpot banana-republic dictators set up by USMC intervention, the Somoza family et al (FDR supposedly said of Somoza père, “He may be a son-of-a-bitch but he’s our son-of-a-bitch”). Chiang Kai-Shek; Ngo Dinh Diem and his family; the Shah of Iran; Augusto Pinochet; the juntas in Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina and El Salvador. Alfredo Stroessner, Jonas Savimbi and Joseph Mobutu fall on that client list somewhere, perhaps, not to mention the years we counted General Franco as part of the Free World. It’s quite a long list and there’s plenty more, 1898 to now.
Pedinska beat me to the draw, and with a far better list. I’m taking my collection of US-backed dictators and going home.
Please don’t be gone long, coram. You’ll be sorely missed.
Yes, but I’m betting your list rolled right off your fingertips. I needed to borrow mine. ;-}
We’ll always have Mme. Ngo Dinh Nhu and Mme. Claire Chennault. Two Dragon Ladies on the US payroll.
I’m one who feels vibes from down below and think land can manipulate man. Some places are just cray cray, so don’t go where the Tonto go.
Even the Coyotero , those deemed by Sierra Blancas to be half nutz, called them crazy when the Spanish asked. Only five years after they were concentrated next door, incoming Whites killed one another at alarming rates. When baited to come back and help partisans finish the other off, the Tonto could see they’d gone nuts. Keep it, Tontos. Much nicer where the Coyotero Howls.
Family conned the government into compensating them for a ranch burnt down by Apache when they knew damn well the neighbors had torched it. Yup.
Nobody but a terrorist could object to US and Saudi cooperation on combatting terrorism. In fact, unlike the US where terrorism statutes are a bit vague and subject to deliberate misinterpretation and abuse, Saudi Arabia just this year decreed new laws which define terrorism very clearly. From the source linked above:
I think that having a clear definition of terrorism like this will be a boon to US authorities as well – another example of how closer cooperation is a win-win situation.
Absolutely Mr. Mussolini.
Mr Obama should issue forth another executive order, or decree, regarding the exact definition of “terrorist” activity. It really would simplify much of the present confusion that presently exists in vague laws and manuals that only the Secret Courts like the FISC are able to interpret. If such a decree were made, law enforcement officials would have much less difficulty apprehending “terrorists” and the true nature of US “democracy” would instantly manifest.
Just recently this year….Mr Obama indicated that he might be contemplating such a proclamation.
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/3/26/obama_to_visit_saudi_arabia_key
Ahhh….Mr Obama. He indicated he might… all just full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
His florid prose doesn’t take the country anywhere but down. (I voted for him..twice!)
@ josephine related:
Regarding the President of the USA, I found this to be interesting:
“President Darth Vader? Americans prefer Star Wars characters over Obama and 2016 hopefuls”
See: http://rt.com/usa/175352-president-darth-vader-poll/
There’s one problem with that, Duce. Having a clear definition of terrorism means you can’t snag suspects on murky definitions. The whole point of the previous story, about the US memorandum on blacklist criteria, was that you can add people to your list on the basis of supposition, rumor, outright guessing, or ignorant profiling.
For an example of how that process might work, we have one such set of suspicious characters sighted in the US Congress.
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/07/25/exclusive_freshman_congressman_mistakes_senior_government_officials_for_foreigners
The Saudi’s advantage is that their Wahhabist flavor of religion forbids just about everything and makes their prohibitions so much simpler.
@ coram nobis:
Ever the comedian…..I appreciate you sense of humor and your seemingly endless ability to insert levity into otherwise grim topics.
You make an excellent point. Certainly the US is a more advanced society and requires the efficiency and flexibility inherent in secret law. Saudi Arabia is more primitive and takes the somewhat simplistic approach of publicly decreeing what is legal and illegal. This of course gives the advantage to the terrorists, who knowing their actions are illegal, can then take steps to hide themselves. But we should not judge the Saudis too harshly. The framers of the constitution took a similar simplistic approach and felt the need to explicitly spell out rules for how the government would operate. I believe that rather than condemn the Saudis, we should exercise tolerance and in time they too will evolve and see the error of their ways. Trying to impose our views might force compliance but would result in merely copying our behaviors without true understanding of the underlying principles on which they are founded. True understanding takes time, accompanied by trial and error, and we should be patient while they work through this process.
That said, even inferior approaches may have merit in specific instances. Computers in some ways are like the primitive human mind and function based on precepts of logic and clarity. The algorithms to sort through the NSA databases might actually function better with an explicit definition of terrorism which can be used as a testing criterion. The Saudi law, while legally primitive, might well be suited to snag terrorists hidden within the databases.
So I stand by my main point about the benefits of cooperation, even though I accept your admonishment on the general inferiority of the Saudi approach.
>”There’s one problem with that, Duce. Having a clear definition of terrorism means you can’t snag suspects on murky definitions.”
The Duce has finally snapped coram! Basically, every article written @ The Intercept is about ‘Terrorism’.
~ U.S. support of despotic regimes like SA …
~ Every gov. official abuse of authority revealed by Snowden … Terrorism
~ Lying/withholding information necessary for inform consent/oversight … Terrorism
~ Israel/Palestine … Terrorism (*Palestinian)
~ Glenn Greenwald …Terrorism (*lover)
~ What keeps Lindsey Graham up at nights … Terrorism (& Glenn Greenwald.)
~ Bear shit in the woods … Terrorism
~ You name it … Terrorism
*there’s a pattern here somewhere!
ps. Imo, a ‘clear definition’ of ‘terrorism’ would be restricted to Nation/State actors … everything else, of course, subject to the fair administration of criminal justice honed over the last millennia, or so.
Although, BHB, Mussolini had to deal with nebulous but very real threats, which he could style as terroristi and threats to his regime, starting with Giacomo Matteiotti and ending up with Count Ciano, his son-in-law. He needed loose definitions with which to collect them. He just admired the precision with which the Saudis could define anything as forbidden, but, please remember, the Saudis are a more pervasive dictatorship than the Italian Corporate State. Even ravioli could be haram in our Saudi ally’s dictatorship.
Sounds a lot like the Christian fundamentalism of our debbie, or deborah as she now goes by; formerly Larchmont and before that, publicsquare.
““Ministry of Interior officials sometimes subjected prisoners and detainees to torture and other physical abuse,””
Regular practice in the US, too with the added benefit of consequence free murder by the retail level distributors of the governments main product: Violence.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/
Horrifying, and pandemic in America.
What a sad, outrageous story. Unfortunately, such stories are becoming way too routine.
Thanks for giving us this heads up.
Human rights considerations such as will the foreign government in question agree to torture prisoners the US is unable to torture because of its own human rights considerations?
I don’t recall this news item getting much attention last winter, but maybe now is an opportune time to spread the word and begin supporting those in Congress who have not yet been compromised to the point that they have fallen to conscious aid and abetment of the criminal state in its obscuration of reality from the people.
9/11 Link To Saudi Arabia Is Topic Of 28 Redacted Pages In Government Report; Congressmen Push For Release
The oath to uphold the US Constitution takes precedence over all other oaths – doesn’t it?
9/11 is a pivotal event in our history which has been used to justify the destruction of civil liberties in the US, to create a global Panopticon, and to establish a domestic army on the ground in every state, ready to act against the people at a moment’s notice. A great deal of circumstantial evidence exists that points to a completely different explanation of what happened and how it happened on that day that is at odds with the result of the official (incomplete) investigation. We, the people, need a new unbiased investigation into all of the extant evidence. We need to know the truth whatever it may be.
Yes, the existence of this information is old news as pointed out earlier, but the difference between what we suspect and what we know, supported by documentation, is a chasm of ignorance so wide and deep that it renders the people impotent to act effectively and honorably, holding their government to account. If there are those in Congress who are willing to expose the collusion between principals in our government and those of Saudi Arabia’s, we ought to vociferously support them. I very much doubt that *all* the information in these pages has dribbled out, else why would Jones and Lynch express shock at what they read?
I hope it’s not too late.
http://www.ibtimes.com/911-link-saudi-arabia-topic-28-redacted-pages-government-report-congressmen-push-release-1501202
@ seer:
Bravo! Right on target.
Being of an essentially hopeful nature, that it is never too late for We the People to re-gain autonomy over ourselves and our government; I think that it is absolutely essential to re-examine 911 for what it actually was: a false-flag operation conducted by the United States of America and world Zionists to invent a never ending “War on Terror”; specifically designed to terrorize the American and world population into accepting a one-world totalitarian form of government now visible as an ever-expanding world security state.
I have posted this link below but I am re-posting it now to augment your line of thought and to bring to light historical evidence regarding the use of false-flag operations by governments to implement actions which would otherwise be met with the over-whelming resistance by the governed populace.
“FAKE TERROR – THE ROAD TO WAR AND DICTATORSHIP”
See: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/
Meanwhile, on another coast…
Broward Bulldog: ‘FBI found direct ties between 9/11 hijackers and Saudis living in Florida; Congress kept in dark’
http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/07/20/classic-who-fbi-knew-about-saudi-911-hijacker-ties-but-lied-to-protect-national-security/
‘Act of god..’
With an exception from the final NIST report that ‘officially’ substantiates 2.25 seconds of *free fall. (@John Kelly – This is an opportunity for you to validate your claims by providing evidence that refutes the Department of Commerce’s official report. Much appreciated.)
NIST Report:
The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (*free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity
http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtc7.cfm
questiontheanswers.now
Where does one begin to expose the series of lies regarding 9/11?
I suppose the best place to start is at the beginning. Do the laws of gravity allow for the free fall of buildings resulting in a neat pile of dust containing nuclear particulate matter?
This is the most recent contribution to a long series of progressively informative articles revealing data and evidence that the US Government’s “official story” is a flat out lie.
Consider this: “Slam Dunk! Most Classified 9/11 Revealed”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/iangreenhalgh/
Posting this with the hope that the truth may be known by all.
The acceleration is changing probably because some traitor is trying to hack into Emergency wireless communication simply to gain access to nations defense forces illegally and to fool the Nation.Send to NSA via:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments (for verification)
and nsa.gov
#NSA Please remember gravity of certain molecVles in the air can be altered by the gas from your fart/sneeze/breath as well.This can cause the speed of wifi/”Emergency wireless” signal in the neighborhood to differ causing easy access to hackers who want to destroy the nation.
The acceleration is changing probably because some traitor is trying to hack into Emergency wireless communication simply to gain access to nations defense forces illegally and to fool the Nation.Send to NSA via:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments (for verification)
and nsa.gov
#NSA
>>> inbox me at fb.com/umar343 <<<
Of course… the very study that explicitly contradicts what you are implying… the one from which you cherry-pick one piece of data… right, that study. Because there are no other possible reasons why a portion of a building might appear to go into free-fall for a few seconds…. like say the collapse of the pillars holding it up… by some other mechanism than a conspiracy to bring down a building by the gang who could not shoot straight? That study? Your obsession is showing.
Act V.
Implication? Up until this point in the conversation, the only ‘report’ that I’ve presented, is an *officially-documented fact.
Replace “data” w/ *officially-documented fact, and I’ll concur.
It appears that your “building might appear” quote has been trumped by an *officially-documented fact.
“The collapse” is an effect of said *officially-documented fact. I’m referring to the *2.25 seconds of free fall which validates that all of the *83 columns in question were ‘defunct’ at the same exact time. (ie ‘Act of god’)
*5. How did the fires cause WTC to collapse (Diagram 1)
This was one of your lamer efforts.
Agreed. My Grandmom used to always chastise me for my obsession of substantiating abstract-reasoning w/ *officially-documented fact..
* http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtc7.cfm
What is your conclusion based on this one piece of data? Is it backed up by the study you cite? Is there any possibility that your conclusion is incorrect, and that there may be another explanation? Or are you so obsessed that you are willing to extract-o-polate (from your rectum) a conspiracy theory that remains unproven, but is somehow considered fact in your delusional little world? Keep chewing… I’m sure you will get to the gooey center of the truth someday.
Act VI.
That WTC 7 was in free fall for 2.25 seconds.
Yes.
Yes. But this would entail that the NIST fabricated their analysis.
Please provide a reference that substantiates your claim that the study in question is conspiratorial.
Dip-shit. What you have yet to comprehend, is that based on the *officially-documented study, I’m already delving into the “gooey center of the truth”.
Next..
You have implied a lot, but said nothing. Very convenient. Your “conclusion” is that there is a piece of data that shows free-fall… and? That one piece of data is not a conclusion. Please explain what you think the apparent free-fall means and what evidence you have to back up whatever your theory is. In other words, what conclusion have YOU come to?
“(@John Kelly – This is an opportunity for you to validate your claims by providing evidence that refutes the Department of Commerce’s official report. Much appreciated.)”
I made no claims about the study. I did not refute the study. You appear to believe this one portion of the study, but not the conclusion of the study. Again, what is your conclusion?
And since you are a little slow, a conclusion is something you come to using data from whatever sources you find reliable…. not a data point.
few weeks after hiller s inauguration as chancellor , a …..9 11 ….happened . the communist terrorist sat ablaze the Reichstag , the parliament . hitler to protect the people ,insure their safety void the constitution with civil liberties and founded the ….homeland security…..gestapo…..the fire was set by goering boys as we know now for sure. bush burn the towers in new York 9 month later.the Saudi ….terrorists …on 9 11 when they boarded the planes were just passengers traveling to west coast and victims of the whole 9 11 act. when somebody know your schedule precisely can set you up to be in the wrong place at the right time without you been awear of it .the Saudis were part of los angeles Saudi consulate official social circle. they were very likely set up by Saudi intelligence which had ties to cia. the charges of thermite in the basement of towers were set by cia as we can see in susan lindauer testimony. I am Romanian but I am ameised at the American treachery on 9 11 .the neocons are nothing but a bunch of proisrael traitors . as I saw recently in an artiucle of neewsweek Israel spies and steals America secrets and sels to china . week later after article concress voted 600 milions emergency aid to isreal . 3 week later 131 milions more , plus more for the iron dome.i am trying to figure out what is in fact patriotism in American terms . I had lived for 27 years in America and I can not describe it .
Jeff..
Yes it was. Now, do you have any other insignificant ‘pearls of wisdom’ that you’d like to contribute to the discussion?
Mr. ‘H’
@ Mr. ‘H':
It certainly was.
Thank you Glenn.
Hopefully these types of articles will wake the comatose Arab.
Please keep them coming. Only by exposing the hypocrite rulers in Arabia will we have real peace
Would you kindly be a bit more specific with your collective “we?”
We are the 99% of the world.
The programs Glenn is describing are meant to keep the Arabs comatose. Should they raise their questioning heads, The Machine was designed to identify them, so they can be apprehended and rendered to desert gulags, maybe with a good prison beatdown every now and then for good measure.
Partnership with this tyrannical theocratic monarchy is truly a marriage made in hell for the world’s pioneering constitutional republic. Lie down with pigs and get up with mud.
Partnership with this tyrannical theocratic monarchy is truly a marriage made in hell for the world’s pioneering constitutional republic.
Saudi Arabia arose as a result of an Arab uprising against the Ottoman Empire. That revolt was encouraged by the British, our current spouse from hell. At that time, the Sauds favored modernization and an increase in the number of non-Muslims in the area they controlled, and fought against the expansion of Wahhabism, a battle they have been slowly losing since.
Lie down with pigs and get up with mud.
The United States, through its history of conquest of third world nations for their resources is the largest pig on the planet. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler, a contemporary of that time who participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, in Central America and the Caribbean during the Banana Wars, and France in World War I, had this to say about US conquest:
I have no problem with criticizing the Saudis for who they are and what they do. But we also need to recognize the complicity of our own government’s policies in the creation of strife all over the world, in particular of late, the Middle East.
Thank you, Pedinska; wonderful reference! “Complicity” is being very polite though…
Yes, I agree. The sources of today’s conflicts and allegiances can be found in British quests of empire and some one-sided notions of ‘free trade’. Two global wars have been fought as a result of British Imperialism, and now, with the US as Britain’s proxy we are on the verge of a third devastating (nuclear) war which will seal our nationalistic fervor and take our minds off the incipient global economic depression engineered by Wall Street & The City of London.
Some extremely few people are about to become even wealthier, while global population will be significantly reduced.
@ Pedinska:
“But we also need to recognize the complicity of our own government’s policies in the creation of strife all over the world, in particular of late, the Middle East.”
Wonderful comment.
You are being very polite, as usual, with your choice of words.
I would say US Zionist collusion to overtake all of the real assets on planet Earth.
Thanks.
The root of all evil teams up with the devil and I know it hard to see who’s who here. Don’t worry it doesn’t matter. Just know is very, very bad for all the rest of us.
Impeach Obama NOW!
The BALL’s of them. There is a bust of Abraham Lincoln on the table in the background. A closer look and you’ll see he’s crying his eyes out. This didn’t happen by accident nothing this devil does is by accident. It’s all done by design!
This partnership is a disturbing echo of the CIA’s training and support of SAVAK, the secret intelligence and police service which terrorized the Iranian people to keep a corrupt Shah in power. SAVAK is often cited as a factor which pushed the Iranian people toward revolution and made them forever distrustful of the United States. It is a tragedy that history has taught us nothing.
“We were recently a Bedouin society. When we find water we share it with our neighbors or expect to be shot. We feel the same way about oil. We share 20% of the oil revenue with the conservatives in the south [Wahhabi] to keep them not a threat to our family.”
The US has been sharing intelligence with KSA for a long time. Early 1979 USA and KSA created a $12b joint fund to destabilize a secular Afghanistan. This fund was managed by Pakistan’s ISI. The CIA and Saudi intelligence recruited ObL. Carter’s defense secretary Zbigniew Brzezinski started Jihad because terrorists were less of a problem than the Soviets. There was a secret deal with President Reagan to supply Saudi oil for the war in Vietnam during the OPEC oil embargo. Under GW Bush the PNAC was planning to seize the southern oil fields. After 9-11 that plan was diverted to Iraq.
agreed, we have a long history of attempting to play bedu power-politics– regimes, tribes and factions, either against each other or in coalition– i suppose dating back to the initial calculation, to support/accept the rise of king abdul-aziz in the aftermath of ww1, thus betraying our primary ally the Sharif of Mecca, whom we diverted into the kingship of Jordan (and Iraq); i suppose the British were the main author of that play, the old game of divide/wedge, that’s played-out so splen-did-ly in india/pakistan and elsewhere. and of course FDR/standard oil courted abdul-aziz, during ww2. and granted: abdul-aziz did the job, of machine-gunning the “jihadi tribes”/ikhwan, en masse– and who knows, if his favored/most capable son, faisal, hadn’t been assassinated, maybe he/we would’ve pulled-it-off, and the KSA would look more like Jordan and less like a basket-case. the problem is, the royal regime can’t really contain the inherent tribal/factional chaos; the only way forward into real stability, was probably to achieve a functioning participatory society/economy of actual opportunity– the concept that the royal regime has been able to “distribute” oil incomes to secure sustainable peace/prosperity, is absolute bunkum– certainly, the royals will make that claim, distribution has been rife with corruption and other inefficiencies– a major factor of the alienation/rage of the saudi youth, barely repressed. the system is deeply unstable. ———–>i worry, in this NSA / saudi intel alliance, who are we actually allying with, among the princes/factions/tribes? King Abdullah is an old man– his time is limited. have we been relying on the Sudairi brothers– Bin Naif al Sudairi’s old intelligence network? this would suggest that we would be betting on a Sudairi resurgence/succession to the throne—>which, given the famous corruption/disaffection of the previous Sudairi reign, King Fahd, seems like a very bad bet. also: Bin Naif built up an intel network, but he was also the primary patron of the religious police– again, a potential dangerous mix. seems like if we’re going to play the game cynically we should probably embrace Faisal’s son, as the most competent option. but also, it seems like the game-playing is like gambling at poker, without having any idea of what cards we are actually holding, or knowledge of the basic rules? it’s like we just assume we can always slip an “ace” in, with our own intel capability. hubris.
Prince naif bin Abdul-aziz, not “bin naif” who would be naif’s son– sloppy typing on my part
actually, judging from this article it would seem that the son of prince naif (or nayef, if you prefer) has succeeded him as the head of the ministry of the interior: see article, http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/ –par.3, in which he also replaces his uncle bandar as the head of intelligence. you have to admire how they keep everything in the family, yes? also suggests the rising power of the sudairi faction; somebody tell those folks in marabella spain ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/aug/06/saudiarabia.spain ) to break out the champagne, perhaps the good times will come again.
We humble citizens believe that ‘pouring antiseptic liquid down a human rights activist’ is a vile crime. But by calling the brand of this antiseptic ‘Democracy’, authorities in the US, government, congress and Pentagon will all rejoice!
I was hoping these new Snowden Saudi docs might reveal something new about the evacuation of Saudis from the US in the immediate aftermath of 9-11. It has caused many people to wonder……….especially the ex Gov of FLA, Bob Graham, who took part in the investigation and is unable to speak about some 28 pages in the “report” that were redacted. Did Snowden get those 28 pages? The un-redacted ones?
From The Real News on April 23, 2014………Former U.S. Senator Bob Graham says greater awareness of Saudi Arabia as “essentially a co-conspirator in 9/11…would change the way in which, particularly in the current milieu of events in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia is being viewed” by the U.S. public………..
Senator Graham co-chaired the Congressional Joint Inquiry into 9/11 that investigated intelligence failures leading up to 9/11. The inquiry’s final report included a 28-page chapter describing the Saudi connection to 9/11, but it was completely redacted by U.S. intelligence agencies.
“I was stunned that the intelligence community would feel that it was a threat to national security for the American people to know who had made 9/11 financially possible,” said Senator Graham. “And I am sad to report that today, some 12 years after we submitted our report, that those 28 pages continue to be withheld from the public.”
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?ption=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11103
By having secret proof of Saudi complicity it allows the US to manipulate SA as they wish. For example
Saudi bankrolling Egyptian Army when US could not
Saudi chasing after Al Qaeda in Yemen
Saudi sponsoring terrorist in Syria
and so on
What has Saudia done about the ongoing slaughter of Palestinians?, I would not be surprised if they came out in support of Israel
@ rahelah:
Right on target.
But of course, the American people need to know the truth and comments like this will help.
Thank you.
Lovely to see the elevated Obama here partnering with such a hoodie under the blessing of Lincoln. All the POTUS would need to do to bring the bloke to his senses, were He to feel such action is called for, is to dispatch his wife Michelle — or Dianne Feinstein, or Jen Psaki, or Marie Harf, come to that — to Saudi Arabia for a freebie vacation with an insistence that, upon arrival, none of them take ‘no’ for an answer at any of the car-rental offices at the airport. Obama might then follow up by rewarding Greenwald for his considerable services to US democracy by dispatching him and Miranda, together, and ensuring the couple were in possession of a US marriage certificate so they could thereby enjoy the luxury of a honeymoon-suite.
The hypocrisy of the U.S. is unmatched on almost every level! What’s more, three quarter of the U.S. population still believes: a, Americans are “exceptional”; b, the rest of the world just loves them; c, Americans clearly have the moral high ground, no matter what; d, America is the epitome of freedom and a working democracy (having not a shred of an idea of the Oligarchy/Plutocracy they actually live in); etc…, ad nauseam. I could go on using 100 full alphabets! The stupidity in the U.S. is also unmatched!
RIGHT ON!
Yep, I’d say you’re pretty close describing the real US mentality. When one believes the rubbish that has been pounded into one’s head since childhood, one’s gaze becomes so lofty that it is always in the clouds and never touches upon the ugliness the hands have have created. Furthermore punks like Dubya, Dick, Barak, Benny, and Faisal like to hang out and swap tales of their daring ado, and MSM are paid to yuk it up so we will be placated with all the love these punks share.
“If we don’t work with them, then
they don’t help us fight terrorism”
They are helping us fight terrorism by supplying the terrorists.
Not only are they supplying the terrorists, they’re creating new ones.
lovePeace
Yeah..thanks for the update reporting on this , think even with all the corruption and illegal financial support of a Illegitament, and murderous “Government” when Islamic Caliphate turns it’s Deadly Jahadist on Saudi Arabia, they going to use All that USA has sold them and much much more…and to No Avail…I predict that that current Saudia Arabia and it’s vast Oil industries and reserves will be attacked and removed from production and the World markets do not see any way that that corrupt and corrupting system of Global Oil Repression will last very much longer.
he real issue is the Geepolitical Blowback Chaos this will induce for the USA and the Whole World’s fragile Finacial status, which in every case will be coming Along as the Middle Eatern Area Disinergrate into Bloodshed and Civil Calamities on scale never before Experienced in remebered History.Perhaps we should have all pasued when we were mindwashed by our repective Goverments that War is a answer to anything, other that the MIC Balance sheet.
The time, are certainly Changing Forever..Change in Every State.
I have One Word…Bitcoin!
LoveTruth
Bitcoin? I prefer hugs ;-)
Some countries are allies because they buy American weapons. Some countries are allies because they supply the US with oil. Saudi Arabia is at the top of both those lists, so no wonder they have a special relationship, as this article celebrates. Throw in the fact their secret service models itself on the CIA and that both countries encourage religious fundamentalism at home to advance their political agenda, and you have a match made in heaven.
Yet even in paradise, there can be problems. Saudi Arabia is somewhat disgruntled the US hasn’t gone to war against Syria or Iran. They need to understand that friendship has its limits. The US is not interested in tipping the balance in the Middle East, merely assuring that all sides continue to fight each other. But I’m sure that Saudi Arabia will be reasonable and not let this sour them on what is essentially a splendid relationship.
And some people marry because of very practical reasons. And stay together. (Astrology may help too)
having worked in saudi, i’ve always wondered what was the line between the censors/religious police and actual intelligence groups? and how on earth is the NSA supposed to play into that mix? and also: if we’re relying on saudi intel, our perceptions will probably become distorted by their own interests/prejudices, especially in terms of screwing-down the saudi shia populations; also, it’s a fair bet that the saudis will blow tremendous amounts of smoke, telling us whatever they think we want to hear– or what they want us to hear– while ignoring actual, substantive threats to their own regime (unclear line of succession among the 2nd generation princes; widespread popular disaffection, among the Saudi youth; ferocious sectarian hatred, of the Saudi wahabi/sunnis towards the Saudi shia, which the regime cannot necc. contain or even identify; vast amounts of cash-money within Saudi Arabia that cannot be tracked, because Saudis do not pay taxes and have therefore never been subjected to any form of audit; etc etc etc). all of that’s to say that: if the proposition is that the NSA can treat the KSA as a bona-fide intelligence partner, then somebody’s probably getting _____. not sure who, though. and i hope that somebody is ensuring that we haven’t just given the religious police the means to completely subvert the internet within saudi, and selectively entrap entire populations? because that would be a very bad outcome, both for the KSA and for the entire region.
Meanwhile, many believe Saudi Arabia is named as a “foreign source of support” for the 9/11 terrorists in 28 redacted pages within a House/Senate inquiry report. This week, both the Chair and Vice-Chair of the 9/11 Commission Report called for that section to be declassified:
http://28pages.org/2014/07/23/911-commission-chair-vice-chair-say-28-pages-should-be-declassified/
http://28pages.org/2014/07/17/foreign-government-involvement-in-911-shouldnt-stay-secret/
Thank you for that – it includes this paragraph, this hopeful information –
Good C-SPAN video clip on that page.
Ahh… The United States of Arabia.
& Americans who are exposing such things, putting their lives on line don’t seem to get enough support.
What goes round, will eventually come around… if it has not already
But they have a sh#*load of oil :) If we don’t work with them, then they don’t help us fight terrorism and they sell their oil to the Chinese.
Having said that, I think this article makes a good point. In many ways you can learn a lot about the technology that we might have when you read articles like the one in Wired magazine about the technology that the former regime in Libya had (which was sold to them by companies that make a living contracting to Western Intelligence agencies). That article talked about how the former Libya regime could read every email, read the files on everyone’s (aka dissidents) computers, see what websites people went to, what phone calls they made, and so on…
Why did you redact 28 pages?:(
Half on-topic: Not just weapons (and evidently intelligence compromises) going to Saudi Arabia – on top of the THREE BILLION DOLLARS IN TAXPAYER MONEY GOING TO ISRAEL, also…
*US Provides Israel the Weapons Used on Gaza*
http://truth-out.org/news/item/25109-us-provides-israel-the-weapons-used-on-gaza
Sad truth about US KSA alliance:
Most Americans would rather not look at this mirror (see top of page) too closely so we can just keep driving and flying around.
Fix your comment section Glenn. Some comments don’t show up after taking time to write them. And not because I wrote something particularly offensive (The F word seems to be allowed here). Either let them through or fix your blocking/firewall system.
thanks
“Thank God for the Saudis and Prince Bandar,” John McCain told CNN’s Candy Crowley in January 2014. “Thank God for the Saudis and Prince Bandar, and for our Qatari friends,” the senator said once again a month later, at the Munich Security Conference.
Is it just me or is Obama’s grin really as offensive as W’s smirk? Why does Washington prefer tyrants when any alternative would be better for everyone including the US?
Why does Washington prefer tyrants when any alternative would be better for everyone including the US?
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/787/op35.htm
The ancient Greeks had a saying. “Justice ends at the city gates.” That could be the motto for US foreign policy in general. It is not just that it is wholly unrelated to moral considerations but that they pretend it is, for public consumption, and repeatedly hide the truth from the people they are supposedly acting on behalf of.
Just think about it. Who are the Saudis going to use their weapons against? It’s either going to be against the evil Shiite Iranians (I’ve yet to understand why they’re evil), or their own populations. It’s crazy to support these governments. I don’t understand how it is beneficial to the National Security interests of the West to continue to support these countries that just keep oil prices where corporations want, and the supply flowing.
Why the NSA doesn’t pressure for wind and solar energy I have no idea. It boggles the mind. Either they’re myopic (which is difficult to believe) or they are pursuing agendas about which I’m unclear.
One word: OIL
Supporting despots militarily is a well known formula the US uses for domination and further tighten the grip on far away populations. This formula is crystal clear, and there is no argument about it. The despot is installed with a security outfit for intelligence gathering and punishing dissents.
With the Saudis, it gets a lot better, since oil revenues get channeled back to the US and other countries, with the sales of all sort of trinkets and specifically arms including fighter jets and tanks.
These tanks must be the latest models, air-conditioned with ‘advanced’ stereo music systems.
Another related export to the Saudis is ‘training’. With temperature over 110º F (over 45º C), people needs retraining very often, and half the training time is spent on having breaks. Essentially, training takes forever and they for it very dearly.
The US government finds lots and lots of advantages from working with the Saudis.
RE: the picture of Obama and King Abdullah, and the bust between them in the background. Lincoln appears to be weeping.
I believe this comment was the only bit of mirth I experienced on this page. Thanks.
The US relationship with SA isn’t a cooperative one. It’s a master-servant relationship.
This has been obvious since the first Bush attacked Iraq the first time in response to the Kuwait invasion.
The Saudis control the oil, the lifeblood of industrial capitalism. The US (inspired and advised by international oil baronages) depends upon the political stability of SA. I suspect this is what ObL was aiming at — driving a wedge between the US and SA — with the 911 attack.
The US ferociously protects the SA political status quo. Whether removing Saddam in Iraq or droning rebels in Yemen, the US will always act in the interests of the Saudi royals.
Why wouldn’t SA and US internal police agencies “cooperate”?
Old news.
I just caught a strong whiff of sympathy troll. Did you? Try another whiff. It gets real strong about here: “I suspect this is what ObL was aiming at — driving a wedge between the US and SA — with the 911 attack.”
And here: “Old news.”
Thank goodness some people are doing “new” news.
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/6/iran_contra_redux_prince_bandar_heads
I’m impressed.
My computer doesn’t have an olfactory component.
Where can I get one?
Don’t get the same he’s got – it’s not accurate. It’s all mixed up. :~/
To what does your last sentence refer? The relationship between the US and Saudi Arabia? Most people in the US are sadly unaware of its ruinous effect, regardless of its history. And this article specifically is not ‘old news,’ at all, revealing the corruption extending beyond even previous subordination, adding to those submissions an irresponsible cyber-complicity within the Obama administration.
So do you think if you just vote for the right person, that person will change a decades old “outside the law” bureaucracy as entrenched as it is entitled?
If so, you have far more faith than me.
In my opinion voting is simply window dressing. I vote but I doubt it makes any difference at all.
I don’t know why you’re mentioning voting, but since you did I’ll take the opportunity to say I’m not impressed with it either. The reason I brought up the current administration in the above post was to point out this news was contemporary; in point of fact I think the two-party system is a charade, and both major parties are hopeless.
Oh, okay.
I have the impression that when people try to link Obama with anything, they have a political agenda in mind. If that isn’t your intent, then my bad.
As the Republicans cry, “Impeach Obama” and Democrats respond, “We dare you” somehow the structural and institutional issues remain unexamined … the malignancy remains hidden and active.
It seems to me that until we — as citizens — confront the precise disease (no, it’s not “government”) we remain hopelessly dependent upon doctors who have absolutely no interest in curing anything.
It seems to me that maintaining the disease creates financial incentives for doctors, nurses and hospitals to actually avoid curing that which is destroying the body politic.
Old news?
I guess we all know Israel is mean to Palestinians. That’s old news too. Hey Glenn, maybe you should stop writing about Israel / Palestine, or anything that’s “old news,” or offends Muslims.
F off.
Oh no! I’m shamed and frightened now.
If you just tell me what upsets you, I’ll try to write so that in the future my words will be more pleasing to you.
Old news to you, Milton. And, to me. And to anyone who has been reading Glenn for awhile (or had the awareness of a turnip even if they didn’t have the direct experience of OPEC in 1974). The relationship between the US and SA might have ebbs and flows, but the stability of the Saudi regime has been front and center for some time. Glenn has written about it before. That said, the documentation of that relationship – which extends to our shared national security apparatus – is new. I don’t recall there being proof of such intimacies until now.
Just what dissidents in the Saudi kingdom need. The gentle help and assistance of the NSA. As Susan Rice and Samanthat Power might occasionally opine about human rights. It’s but to laugh… or, weep outright.
The relationship between the USA and KSA has been close since the end of WW2, when Truman made US access to Saudi oil a matter of “National Security”. KSA secretly broke the OPEC oil embargo to supply the US war effort in Vietnam, at the personal request of Nixon. The US has been sharing military intel with the Saudis since the Kuwait invasion by Iraq and terrorism intel since OBL. The Saudi government has been under a concerted attack internally by AQ for their relationship with the US and allowing US military bases in the country, so sharing of information is mutually beneficial. The USA can’t criticise KSA too loudly over human rights issues from under the shadow of Guantanamo Bay.
Yes, this is confirmation and that is important news.
It is difficult to map the dark side of the moon. We know it exists but because we can’t see it directly, we cannot say this or that about it. If the US sends a satellite to map the dark side of the moon, then that map should be publicly available … even if there’s a base of hostile aliens.
Unfortunately US information managers (DoD) don’t work for US citizens any longer (except to collect their pay checks and retire with comfortable benefits).
They either work entirely for themselves (for their institutional benefit) or for one or more of the cartels which surreptitiously pay them (under the table) — or who, in plain sight, exchange weapons systems, spare parts and officer training using US foreign aid which then kicks back to the profit of the defense companies which underwrite significant portions US political campaigns.
I’d be interested to know how much SA money — oil profits — circulates in this systemic corruption.
Bullshit, Milton. The US does not use that much mid east oil. So let’s not talk about “inspired and advised”, but rather, “employed by”, that is, by interests that do not align with US interests except sometimes by accident.
Oil is fungible.
A modern economy cannot function without a stable and predictable supply of fossil energy. OPEC — a transnational cartel — cannot use oil as a weapon as it (OAPEC) did in 1973 (see 1973 oil crisis.)
Paddy Chafeskyy explains the modern economic system:
Since WW2 the US has been the guarantor of international stability. This pax Americana demands management — a balancing of international interests such that no single nation gains (except America) gains such an advantage that a nation (or bloc of nations) can force (or needs) a war to protect its national sovereignty.
I say “old news” because the US has been managing “friendly” dictatorships for exactly the purpose of stability.
For instance (from wikipedia entry on SAVAK)
SA”s interests (status quo) and US interests so closely align that is seems foolish to think this “terror war” is anything but an effort to manage (prevent) indigenous political opposition to the existing international (see also Pakistan currently, Indonesia in the 60’s, ex-soviet satellite states for examples).
Revolutions are bad for business.
[Note: fingers crossed on formatting. Please find a way to preview or edit.]
Let’s not confuse the interests of a country with those of the gangsters than run it, and also we must realize that all countries are Saudi Arabia to one degree or another.
As for the pax, nuclear weapons have a huge role preventing a very large scale conflict, while the smaller ones continue on, often stimulated, rather than prevented, by he actions of the US.
Those interests of our our country have been obscured since WWII minimally, and even though the gangsters’ interests are not ours, they have been superimposed on ours, masqueraded as ours, and too many of the people believe they *are* ours.
The Saudi Government is the worst thing for Muslims anywhere. They fund Muslim governments all over with money to set up schools or Madrasas. In those Madrasas, they teach nothing but how to read the Koran in Arabic, a language not native to most Muslims in the world. Parents send their kids there as that’s sometimes the cheapest form of babysitting and they think their kids will become good Muslims. But what this ends up doing, is it creates a certain class of the citizenry, that learns to dress and behave in certain ways, protest in certain ways, children who grow up to learn about nothing but ‘the word of God’ as told to them by their uneducated Mullah. It’s creating a whole class of rigid Muslims, where there didn’t use to be.
Fucking bullshit. Fucking worst thing that happened to Muslims was Saudi Arabia discovering oil.
Oh, yes. They’re funding the madrassas from Jeddah to Djakarta, they’re stirring the pot in Syria, Iraq and Pakistan, they’re promoting a whole clear-channel line of Sunni extremism, and Uncle Sam is aiding and abetting this kingdom. This memorandum puts a capstone on this monstrosity.
Okay, the Land of the Free is providing increased surveillance assistance to Saudi, even after being informed of its less-than-savory record. And we’re told that it helps ” … locate and track individuals of mutual interest within Saudi Arabia.”
So — we’re helping them augment their ability to monitor, track down, and imprison dissidents, among others who may or may not be of mutual interest. The morally-repellent nature of this transaction aside, what does the US get back? Other than being knowingly complicit?
BTW, reading the document (4 pp.), it appears the one clear “advantage” the US gets back is that it gets to monitor the Iraq Revolutionary Guards Corps, which probably helps the Saudis unduly as well. They seem awful concerned, however, that the Saudis might get hold of our SIGINT capabilities. It’s nice, when you can trust your friends and allies.
The US government has never been against the idea of going after dissidents. It has constraints domestically, sure, but globally? Operation Condor, which the US provided financial and operational support for, was exactly about cracking down on dissidents. More recently, Chelsea Manning has documented how they were happily cracking down on political critics of the Iraqi government.
Our twisted, anti-democratic relationship with the KSA dates back into the early postwar era. In and of itself, it is not “news”. However, documentation that it has been expanded is newsworthy and troubling. Particularly given that this was apparently considered privileged information, and kept from the full Congress. The decision to maintain or expand these kinds of entanglements should not be left wholly to the Executive.
Much of the material support for our (proclaimed) enemies (e.g. Al Qaeda) in the Muslim world comes from petrodollars. Western wealth sifts through the hands of people in the Arabian peninsula who are embarrassed or enraged by their perceived dependence on the U.S. They assuage their sense of shame by using money derived from us to pay people who kill us.
Over the past decade, data we’ve passed to the Pakistani intelligence service has clearly been used against us, or against our immediate interests. Data shared with the intelligence services of the Arabian peninsula will be similarly disseminated, sooner rather than later.
Why are these security-state empowering (enriching) actions seen as A-Okay & righteous, while push back against them is portrayed as quasi-traitorous? You don’t need to be a whacky gold-standard ranter, wrapped in a Gadsden flag, to see it entirely differently.
Does our national security elite truly see AQ and their ilk as enemies……. or are they merely ever-useful fundraising instruments?
Well, I guess it comes as a surprise to some liberal imperialists that Saudi and the U.S. are in bed together and condone one another’s human rights abuses. Most of us have known this for decades.
Really, when are you going to start posting documents about Israel’s intelligence on Gaza or name names other than five bourgeois Muslims?
We’ve gone beyond absurd, we’re now getting into the ridiculous.
Sorry vegan red, Muslims appears to be all The Intercept has to report.
Your statement is clearly false. Most of what The Intercept has been reporting on is the NSA, and violations of the US constitution, specifically the 4th and 5th amendments. Some of the NSA reporting relates to Muslims. Some of it relates to Israel.
You can dish it out when it comes to Israel, but Muslims sure as hell can’t take any criticism of their own. Stop defending autocratic Muslim governments. Support the people under the autocracies.
You’re replying without understanding the context in which vegan red’s “…or name names other than five bourgeois Muslims” was made. vegan red’s comment pertained to the publication’s reportage on domestic surveillance-targeted groups; the “five” referred to a July 09 story on this site.
It is vegan red and deborah who don’t have understanding of the context. Because of that one article about Muslims being surveilled, makes this site all about Muslims? You are out of your mind and out of your depth.
And those guys were bourgeois Muslims, were they?
Uh…, no. Because vegan red’s passage alluding to The Intercept’s reporting on five Muslims as surveillance targets on top of its immediately prior reporting of Muslim surveillance targets in the Tri-State area by NYPD makes the site’s reporting on surveillance-targeted groups peculiarly Muslim-centric to the exclusion of listing other domestic spy targets.
Correction: A prior story on NYPD surveillance of Muslims was made by Greenwald at Salon.
You also might want to enlighten the commentariat what exactly about the site is really 5th Amendment pertinent. You’re not the intellect you consider yourself to be.
I’m glad most of ‘you’ had known this for decades, perhaps you all could bear with us, the ignorant masses who haven’t been so wise, only fed details on arm sales (reported on back pages) and Bush kissing and Obama bowing or whatever, while the (ever-increasingly popular) The Intercept illuminates the travesty in its own way.
This news is a particular facet of the corruption, and is about contemporary Intelligence ‘sharing’ during the Obama administration – something never actually documented before, even if you and your friends did ‘somehow’ know about it!
Welcome to the ranks of those who are aware. However, with all due respect, please do not berate those of us who have been aware for a bit longer as you shed your ignorance. It’s not our fault, and it’s poor form.
Thank you so much for the warm welcome to your clever society! I think perhaps you missed the sarcasm of the post you’ve responded to, but ’tis no matter.
“We’ve gone beyond absurd, we’re now getting into the ridiculous.”
Regarding these incessant & clumsy public efforts to goad Glenn into improper or careless revelation………. yes, I have to agree. Ridiculous is the operative word.
Nice dog-whistling with “bourgeois” there, BTW. (I have such trouble spelling that fancy-assed word!) Will you call us running dogs of Amerikkkan imperialism next? Or will you switch to an ultra-rightist persona for your encore effort?
Please do! I love all that Gadsden flag waving baloney! It so much more entertaining than your antique leftism. Do you need any teabags?
Fluffy, I just adore your witty snark. Please keep it up.
Excellent post, Fluffy.
I see we now have a “peachy” “starry” vegan. By any color, still an ass.
Vegan Red, while many could have imagined it “for decades” as you put it, The Intercept is providing documentation and reporting on the subject.
This is not absurd and not ridiculous. The Intercept provides a proper perspective on Israel, and unconstitutional activities of the US govt. Just because it tells us how absolutely awful the Saudi govt. or Interior Ministry or Police enforcement institutions are, is no reason to take umbrage. What’s the difference between you, and an Israeli saying “not enough coverage of Syria?” I sure as hell can’t see any.
You might only want to read about the shit Israelis do. Some of us want to read about the shit everybody does, including the Great Kingdom of Saudi fucking Arabia.
The idea that news has to be wholly “surprising” to be worth reporting is such lazy thinking. Some of the most important and society-changing journalism in history has involved reporting on things that were widely known or at least strongly suspected. “Everybody,” or a whole lot of people (just as with this story), knew that the FBI was enganging in widepread illegal and very ugly activity in the 196os and 1970s. It didn’t make the reporting on the **proof** of that after (especially) the FBI Burglars provided it in 1971 any less momentous and important.
I forgot to add: you fucking idiot.
Of course most of us already knew that the US and Saudi Arabia are in bed together. But has there ever been evidence that the US helps Saudi Arabia crack down on political dissent? I don’t believe so. Not until now.
Is any of this a surprise anymore? The US Government has been acting like a paranoid schizophrenic since WWII. They jumped into the super-crazy end of international relations pool in 2001 and pulled the plug – and are now sucking the planet down with them.
No problem! Just call in the SEALs.
Good summary. I would add that it’s not just paranoids though. The U.S. intelligence community has always had more than its share of psychopaths too. With the creation of the CIA in 1947 – and the NSA 5 years later, America basically handed over the keys to our government to a very sick element of society, and we’re still paying the price. And they are definitely not the type of people who would relinquish any of their power without being forced.
And that debt pays for your surveillance. Hard domestic spy goods bought with free money–you can’t beat that.
Re: Waleed Abu al-Khair sentenced to 15 years in prison by a so-called “terrorist court”
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/07/228840.htm
Sentencing of Saudi Human Rights Lawyer Waleed Abu al-Khair
Press Statement
Jen Psaki
Department Spokesperson
Washington, DC
July 7, 2014
”The United States is troubled by the 15-year prison sentence, travel ban, and steep fine handed down to human rights lawyer and activist Waleed Abu al-Khair. Mr. al-Khair’s situation is discussed in our most recent Human Rights Report on Saudi Arabia. We urge the Saudi government to respect international human rights norms, a point we make to them regularly.”
as we lavish them with weapons, surveillance technology, and all sorts of diplomatic and political support.
Obama doesn’t want to discriminate, so he bestows upon a religious monarchy/oligarchy the same opportunities Israel enjoys. And he ‘tsk-tsk’s Tel Aviv over human rights too!
Glenn,
Thanks for the work you and your associates are doing, and for adding this important piece of the convoluted charade that passes for productive publicly sponsored policy.
In keeping with your self-proclaimed quest to champion informed journalism, it has occurred to me often that many of your readers may need more factual historical context, in order to place such pieces as this into an informed and more reasonable viewpoint. One small example, which is very germane to the topic of U.S.-Saudi relations, might be a brief mentioning (with references) of James Baker’s, and his law firm, relationship with both governments; as well as private oil and banking interests.
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
PS – And by the way, thanks also for actually monitoring and joining in the comments on your article.
I am confused. We made a petrodollars deal with the Saudis years ago, because the balance of trade was so lopsided. The sell us oil and we sell them state of the art weapons (marked up) and they get to keep their heads attached to their necks, since half the population wants to revolt. Now the Saudis are lying about how much oil is under the ground, Iraq probably has more. BIG QUESTION. Who signed this agreement? Because the agreement between Israel and NSA appeared to be signed by the two respective representatives of their agencies…not the President. As far as I can tell, there seems to be some coalition between United States right wing political nutters (Cheny & Co. ), Israeli right wing nuts and US petro-billionaires. They may be other groups mixed in , like the Chinese. But there appears to be a transnational coalition of total psychopaths, willing to bring the whole world down, if it serves their purposes.
Is there not one person on earth, who knows what is really going on…who can encrypt an e-mail, send it around the globe and tell us what’s really going on before it’s too late!
“We urge the Saudi government to respect international human rights norms, a point we make to them regularly.” -Jen Psaki
this line alone makes me think of a doting mother uselessly ‘reprimanding’ her excessively unruly child, “I told you before, Billy, it’s not nice to torture the neighbors’ cats.”
If you have to remind someone of the same thing “regularly,” then they obviously haven’t paid the least attention to anything you’ve said. This would seem casual to the obvious observer.
This is how the Fed found buyers for its treasuries in the 1970s: “We buy your oil, you buy our debt.”
But the progressive left wants to retain this banking system over even the partial gold standard it entirely replaced in ’71.
That phrase has to be the best description yet of what US foreign policy is about, in part. Sometimes the US has an interest in “regime continuity”, sometimes in “regime change.” In essence, the US government believes it’s entitled to decide who rules over other people, self-determination and democracy be damned.
American, Israeli and Saudi intelligence officers walk into a bar together…
The latest weapon systems exchange hands and the joke’s very unpleasant for almo$t everyone…
@ NFJTAKFA:
Once again, we are of the same view on the clear profit motive of the “joke” surrounding the Zionist objective. The elite (.001%) acquire everything and the rest of the world’s population acquire abject slavery or death.
Related *The Perils of Saudi Arabia Bankrolling U.S. Foreign Policy*
“Almost everyone agrees that overdependence on Middle Eastern oil is bad for America’s economy and national security. So why don’t we recognize the similar dangers of overdependence on Middle Eastern money to achieve U.S. foreign policy objectives? Gulf State money helped pay for the overthrow of Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi and now is funding the armed opposition to the Assad regime in Syria. Both causes were backed by the Obama administration and applauded by some humanitarian activists, as well. But in each case — as in Afghanistan before them — such money has strengthened dangerous Islamist elements…”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-marshall/the-perils-of-saudi-arabi_b_1873828.html
More:
“In the words of one Indian journalist writing for the New York Times, ‘As Saudi Arabian arms and money bolster the opposition, the 80,000 Christians who’ve been ‘cleansed’ from their homes… by the Free Syrian Army have gradually given up the prospect of ever returning home… The seeming indifference of the international community… is breeding a bitter anti-Americanism among many secular Syrians who see the United States aligning itself with Saudi Arabia, the fount of Wahhabism, against the Arab world’s most resolutely secular state.’ He is not alone in raising the alarm. Iraq’s Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki warned that by ‘sending arms instead of working on putting out the fire,’ Saudi Arabia and Qatar ‘will leave a greater crisis in the region.’ Even some neocons, who for years have championed the downfall of Syria’s regime, now sound uneasy about the prospect of Saudi Arabian money dictating the outcome of what increasingly is turning into a regional conflict.”
The United States has long been Saudi Arabia’s leading arms supplier.
See this: *With $30 Billion Arms Deal, U.S. Bolsters Saudi Ties*
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/world/middleeast/with-30-billion-arms-deal-united-states-bolsters-ties-to-saudi-arabia.html
When Taibbi gets his site up and begins writing again I hope to see more of the ‘company store big picture’ (oil & energy, banking & debt, food & medicine, weapons & intelligence) begin to emerge and take shape here at FirstLook. Understanding how humanity’s being manipulated for the greater profits of ‘speculators’ in ALL sectors, as opposed to the most efficient and peaceful outcomes possible, will be a huge step toward ending those profiteering on the suffering of others. Intentionally destabalizing parts of the world to exploit their resources and poorest people, leaving behind a scorched poison earth, is not any sign of superior civilization.
It sounds instead a lot more like cancer…
And this: *U.S. near $10 billion arms deal with Israel, Saudi Arabia, UAE*
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/19/us-usa-mideast-arms-idUSBRE93I13Y20130419
Is there any question that ‘our’ American government is fascist?
Not from where I’m sitting.
Looking for the “sentenced to15 years in prison” article and not finding it. The link takes me here.
Strange: the actual ABC News link we used, and that still appears on Google, isn’t functioning now. That may be a website issue for them. I replaced it for now with a CNN article on the case. Thanks.
“… human rights considerations inform our decisions on intelligence sharing with foreign governments.”–‘Spokesman’
Thanks for the CNN replacement article. The 15 year prison sentence for simply being a verbal dissident activist is a consideration which informs their decisions “before collaborating with foreign security agencies.” Any questions … anybody?
There is information on this sad episode in Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waleed_Abulkhair
Viewed in the context of what’s transpiring domestically — what some are calling COINTELPRO Version 2.0) — this doesn’t come as a surprise, but it’s an excellent article. (Please check out http://FightGangStalking for more about oppressive and brutal practices taking place on U.S. soil.)
(Thanks to Edward Snowden; the article’s authors, Glenn Greenwald and Murtaza Hussain; The//Intercept; First Look Media, Laura Poitras and others.)
First: Is there ANYthing we won’t do? Second: Does Obama have ANY morals?
No — to both questions.
‘U.S. Cover-up of Saudi 9-ll..’
[snip]
“Judicial Watch quickly launched an investigation and in 2005 obtained shocking documents from the FBI detailing how well-connected Saudis, including relatives of Osama bin Laden, left the U.S. on specially chartered flights while most air traffic was still grounded. In all, 160 subjects of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, including but not limited to members of the House of Saud and/or members of the bin Laden family fled the U.S. between September 11, 2001 and September 15, 2001.
The records uncovered by JW show that two prominent Saudi families that fled the U.S. following 9/11 got personal airport escorts from the FBI and that authorities let other Saudis leave the country without first interviewing them. The secret Saudi flights left from Las Vegas, Los Angeles and other major U.S. cities. An unidentified prince in Las Vegas even thanked the FBI for its assistance, according to one internal report obtained by JW. Incredibly, the FBI returned to the Las Vegas hotels with subpoenas days after the Saudi flights departed to gather information on the royal guests, the records show.”
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2013/12/u-s-cover-up-of-saudi-911-ties-probed-jw-has-secret-flight-docs/
Your point Mr. humanity?
The NSA’s New Partner in Spying: Saudi Arabia’s Brutal State Police
By Glenn Greenwald and Murtaza Hussain
Any other questions, Mr ‘Blue-shirt’?
signed,
Mr Humanity
Mr humanity this was reported on like a week after it happened.
@ suave:
I get your point and it is absolutely a valid one. Certainly, there is a clear need to examine 11 Sep 2001 in the context of false-flag state sponsored terrorism but I would prefer a complete analysis which includes the cooperation of all Zionist International players, like the State of Israel acting in consort with the US Government and the Arab affiliates. I suppose that just pointing to the US/Saudi alliance is at this time, a good beginning so let’s talk about some of the more notable False-Flag Ops that have been staged throughout history. To this end, I augment your efforts with the following article:
“FAKE TERROR – THE ROAD TO WAR AND DICTATORSHIP”
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/
One regime we should have no business propping up.
Is there any regime they are entitled to stick their noses in, either to prop them up or take them down?
Is it a sufficient suggestion that the joint collaboration between the United States and the wealthiest powers in or around the Middle East will not reflect well on U.S. journalists working inside those countries?
Now that’s more like it.
Obama was smart enough to avoid public displays of unbound affection but here are some from the W Bush era:
http://www.hermes-press.com/BushKiss2.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_I3Q1kT0tz2A/Sf_HjwqHjcI/AAAAAAAAC6c/00wLjp2ElSc/s1600-h/Bush+Saudi+King.jpg
Cute. No?
This guy can move.
“Prince Charles performs sword dance in Saudi Arabia.”
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/19/prince-charles-sword-dance-saudi-arabia
Almost as gracious as Hillary twerking South Africa’s beauty queens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB3rwZpirgI
From the article, last paragraph: “Asked if the U.S. takes human rights records into account before collaborating with foreign security agencies, a spokesman for the office of the director of national intelligence told The Intercept: ‘Yes. We cannot comment on specific intelligence matters but, as a general principle, human rights considerations inform our decisions on intelligence sharing with foreign governments.'”
So, they are admitting that they forsake this ‘general principle’ sometimes, or that Saudi Arabia’s human rights violations do not alarm them.
Either way, this is more proof there is no honor to US ‘Intelligence.’
He probably means yes in sense that, the greater the human rights violations the more chance of sharing intelligence.
Thanks Edward and Glenn!
Wow.
Of all the perplexing and unethical lapses in our stated values, this partnership takes the cake. This is a red-handed incrimination. In a news cycle that contains Gaza, this Saudi partnership is still remarkable. This is the kind of story that usually comes out 30 years later in a book.