I don’t want to understate how seriously wrong it is that the CIA searched Senate computers. Our constitutional order is seriously out of whack when the executive branch acts with that kind of impunity — to its overseers, no less.
But given everything else that’s been going on lately, the single biggest — and arguably most constructive — thing to focus on is how outrageously CIA Director John Brennan lied to everyone about it.
“As far as the allegations of the CIA hacking into Senate computers, nothing could be further from the truth,” Brennan told NBC’s Andrea Mitchell in March. “We wouldn’t do that. I mean, that’s just beyond the, you know, the scope of reason in terms of what we do.”
Earlier, he had castigated “some members of the Senate” for making “spurious allegations about CIA actions that are wholly unsupported by the facts.” He called for an end to “outbursts that do a disservice to the important relationship that needs to be maintained between intelligence officials and Congressional overseers.”
And what compelled Senate intelligence committee chairwoman Dianne Feinstein to make a dramatic floor speech in the first place, bringing everything out in the open, was that Brennan had responded to her initial concerns not by acknowledging the CIA’s misconduct — but by firing back with an allegation of criminal activity by her own staff.
Not coincidentally, the document the CIA was hunting for, that Senate staffers were accused of purloining, and that Brennan was now lying about, was a big deal precisely because it exposed more lies.
Known as the Panetta Review (evidently prepared for Leon Panetta, who served as CIA director from 2009 to 2011), it became relevant last year, when the CIA started pushing back against many of the scathing conclusions in the several-thousand page “Torture Report” the Senate staffers had finished up in December 2012.
Even as the CIA was officially rebutting key parts of the committee’s report, the staffers realized they had an internal CIA review that corroborated them. In other words, it was proof that the CIA was now lying.
So what’s in the Torture Report? Well, I can’t quote from it, because the intelligence community and the White House have done such a good job of delaying its public release (although a redacted version is widely rumored to be coming soon).
But by all accounts, the report not only discloses abuse that was more brutal, systematic and widespread than generally recognized, but also chronicles how the people most intimately involved in the torture regime lied to others inside the CIA, lied to Justice Department lawyers, and lied to the public; how they lied about what they were doing, they lied to make it sound like it accomplished something, and afterwards, they lied some more.
Brennan reportedly told Feinstein and intelligence committee vice chairman Saxby Chambliss on Tuesday that he was sorry. But it’s hardly the first time he’s been caught in the act. There was, for instance, that time in June 2011, when he was President Obama’s counter-terrorism advisor, that he asserted that over the previous year there had not been a single collateral death from drone strikes. (He later amended that to say there was no “credible evidence” of such deaths.)
But there was indeed ample and credible evidence. (Just as one example, a March 2011 CIA drone attack in Pakistan killed some 50 people, including tribal elders who were gathered for a tribal conclave.)
Brennan’s erstwhile boss, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, famously lied when he assured the Senate intelligence committee that the government wasn’t collecting data on Americans in bulk when, as it turns out, it was.
Lying, of course, has always been a problem in Washington. But especially after the 9/11 terror attacks, the Bush-Cheney regime took lying to new post-Nixon heights. Maybe even pre-Nixon.
When I sat down to write my last “White House Watch” column for the Washington Post, what struck me most about the Bush years were the lies. The most consequential, of course, were the lies about the war. The most telling were the lies to cover up the lies about the war. And the most grotesque were the lies about torture.
The other thing is that there were no consequences. No one got in trouble for lying. The only semi-casualty was Scooter Libby, briefly convicted of lying while obstructing the investigation into vice president Cheney’s lies.
Figuring out how to right the constitutional imbalance between the branches of government, as exposed by this CIA assault on Congress, is very complicated.
But doing something about lying isn’t. You need to hold people accountable for it.
History will assuredly record that President Obama lied about a number of things, particularly as he carried water for the intelligence community and the military. But he’s no Cheney.
So if you’re the president, you fire everyone who lies. Starting with John Brennan.


NSA CIA FBI all nothing but professional gangbanging bullies abusing authority then cowardly lying about it.
What’s implicit in these meager, iceberg-tip revelations of specific, red-handed lies emanating from the spook establishment, is the routine nature of their use by all agencies of our shadow government.
It’s essential this be understood in context as the dominant reality in actuality and not be assumed as merely sequential anomalous behaviors. We’re perpetually dragged in to false political narratives as distractions to the prevailing governmental force that so apparently contradicts all presumption that American government represents both the mass of its population under democratic principles, and its role in the world as a politically benign influence. Murderous contradictions of political expediency, but to what ends?
It should be clear enough to anyone of even average intelligence that we’re pawns in a game of ultimate dominance by a hidden power elite. Follow the money, follow the source of the carnage, follow the historical lineage of imperial initiatives. It’s all there in plain sight, for the present, if you choose to look.
Until there’s a wholesale shift in our political consciousness we’ll stay subject to the false paradigm that paralyzes critical mass reformation through contrivance of disarming divisions. We’re being played deftly by expert masters of evasion who flourish in this fictional environment as we remain largely unconscious and co-opted in an involuntary game of mass manipulation through protracted mind-control programs.
It’s historical, not hysterical, friends. We live in an actual analog to the Matrix, ..one with a disarming profusion of colored pills. But one no less evil in soulless pursuit of control through covert means and enforcement by mindless violence.
We’re facing the prospect of a global Gaza. We’re all Palestinians to the globalists, and we’d better wake up to that fact very soon.
The CIA violated the people’s TRUST. The CIA seemed to have forgotten that the American public, the Senate and their committees, the House and their committees are NOT the enemy. Early reporting used euphuisms like ” inappropriately accessed “. The truth is, CIA hacked into the Senate Intelligence Committee’s computers. This is not only ILLEGAL, it exhibits gross disrespect of the legislative branch of our government. These actions of the CIA make it appear as if they are America’s Gestapo!
By hacking into the computer system of a legislative oversight committee, the CIA has lost the faith, confidence and trust of the American public. This is a very serious matter. To restore the American public’s trust, faith and confidence in the intelligence community, for starters, Brennan, Clapper (the DNI) and all personnel at CIA involved in the hacking of the Senate Intelligence Computers must be stripped of their security clearances and relieved of their duties. As leaders, Clapper and Brennan set the morals and values of the CIA and the Intelligence community. This breech of trust in such a powerful arm of our government is concrete evidence of the failure of leadership. These men failed. In short, these men have “taken the law into their own hands ….. simply because they can”.
Second, based on the CIA/IG report, we the people must call for a criminal investigation into the hacking.
The American public is still reeling from learning the pervasive reach of the NSA access to all our electronic communications. There are many unanswered questions surrounding exactly how rigorously the NSA and its partners evaluate, determine which communications to read and take actions.
With failures and shortcomings in other Departments, we have seen the department heads replaced. For example, Secretary Sebelius and most recently Secretary Shinseki. In my opinion, what Sebelius and Shinseki did or did not do, pale in comparison to Clapper and Brennan.
Expecting Obama to fire Brennan is like expecting him to be a leader with some beliefs but we all know that couldn’t be further from the truth. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks, he is a puppet of his masters, a con man, a mac daddy, etc
Why are there no repercussions for this fraud put upon the People?
NYT: “Yossarian” theory over the torture report.
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/c-i-a-hires-yossarian-to-censor-torture-report
Wow! Quite a lot of astonishing silliness on here and also VERY short memories! Brenen was a BUSH appointee!
Obama = Bad…I agree but let us keep a sense of scale here.
Certainly (at least) one whole WAR was fought on the lies of the previous administration. And the torture policies created and “legalized” then as well as the blanket surveillance.
And the financial market crash was entirely caused by the right-wing notion that unregulated Banking is Better Banking….despite the warnings of the savings and Loan crises in the 80’s and the historical fact that NOT ONE bank failed after the Great Depression ushered in strict banking regulations prior to that point. So we can compare at least one war, torture, and the greatest economic catastophe since the Great depression….against what exactly:
Obamacare??? Really? even though for the first time in 4 decades the US now has FEWER uninsured and health care costs have finally STOPPED outstripping inflation by double digits? Clearly it didn’t go far ENOUGH.
Continuation of policies the previous administration implemented? Oh I agree this is very bad, and we SHOULD be screaming about it….just don’t forget which side you then get when you oust this President…the side that invented the really BIG expensive problems in the first place!
I’m no fan of Obama, but it shows just how truly horrible the other side is when the BEST they could come up with in opposition was Romney??? Good grief. They practically forced us to vote for Obama again! Had the Repugs been able to choose John Huntsman I could bet you the big O would have been a one-term wonder. But the opposition is run by 10 completely corrupt rich white male loons. The party in power at the moment are only mostly corrupt technocrats.
Pretty Clear to me which of the two evils I’ve got to vote for.
Cannot wait until the Republican party finally splits in two so that I’ll have the freedom to vote far left again.
Get real, they need victims for the next false flag attacks.
Far worse than the CIA lies: a nationwide IC program of extrajudicial punishment that includes covert attacks on thousands of unknowing Americans who have been condemned as “dissidents” or “undesirables” — via a celltower-satellite radio frequency #neuroweapon grid capable of “no-touch” torture, injury, impairment, subjugation and even “subaural suggestion”, reports this veteran journalist: http://viclivingston.blogspot.com/2014/07/mainstream-media-awol-on-govt.html
I didn’t vote for Obama in 2008. Not because he’s a liberal, or because he was black, but simply because of some policy issues that if elected would directly effect my business. And I was right, it did. However, once he was elected I actually felt relief. I was beyond excited to have this guy coming in that was gonna shake things up and buck the status quo. Unfortunately we’ve seen over time that Obama took the status quo and expanded it. It’s sad. I really had high hopes for him. The iPhone president has taken technology and is using it in a way that’s borderline criminal.
Well, yes, and he has applied technology in a way that dilettantes like George W. Bush or John McCain wouldn’t. See TI’s latest story —
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/08/05/watch-commander/
Trouble is, it doesn’t carry over to tracking and prosecuting those who destroyed $20 trillion of the country’s wealth and are still trading on the big board. See Matt Taibibi’s The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gap for an idea of how, six years into this administration, how little the status quo has changed.
The American government has lost its way under the current admin when Lois Lerner has better moral standing by taking the 5th instead of lying to the American public like so many public figures have with impunity.
Medicare Fraud and workers compensation claims have sky rocketed. The workers compensation employees are finding loopholes to make claims based on age and work. These claims are fraudulent. Anyone who speaks out against these employees will be tortured by Unions. The politicians turn a blind eye to this because they will not prosecute their wealthy friends who make money on these claims. There is torture and stalking and harassing going on in Oklahoma. It is unconstitutional and it is inhumane. You do not have to be a terrorist to undergo torture you can simply be a citizen of the United States being tortured by workers compensation thugs. Enough is enough and this kind of torture using twitter to stalk and harass must end. Call Oklahoma state senators and congressmen and tell them you are for humane treatment of all citizens today.
Lauren- The issue is not injured worker fraud. The problem is insurer fraud. It’s ironic that the engine that keeps the insurer fraud machine running is the FILING of a claim. The profits are made in NON payment of legitimate claims. In most states there is NO LAW that requires insurance companies to pay ANY legitimate claim! All premium money is considered “my money” by the insurance companies. IF you want to watch havoc in this area I recommend that injured workers and /or the dependents of workers who were killed on the job NEVER FILE A CLAIM! They aren’t going to be paid anyway so why waste the time trying. No insurance executive ever went to prison for refusing to pay a legitimate claim. The employers pay the mandates premiums and the insurers keep the money. Typically injured workers on indemnity cases receive less than 5 cents on the premium dollar. Where does this money go? To insurers and their cronies. Stop insurer fraud by refusing to file claims. This is the insurance companies biggest fear.
WHO was behind the CIA spying on the Senate Intelligence Committee? Given the current and historical context, Israel is a likely candidate. To me, the key for whether Brennan stays is whether he would be fully into finding and rooting out that influence, especially if it turns out to be the Israelis. He has already signed onto Obama’s goal of taking all military-type special operations away from the CIA (which JFK was undertaking when he was killed).
Where did you find that photo of Brennan looking so relaxed?
He took it in Oklahoma where Govenor Fallin is discussing the abandonment of immigrant children being tortured by the United States of America.
The obama-fellating press is partially responsible for this mess because they have refused to investigate or follow up any investigations that might put our current fascist-in-chief in a bad light. A pox on all them and their families.
Woodward!!!!Bernstein!!!!- Criminy ! Where are those guys…???
It’s very disappointing that our peoples’ foremost transparency/accountability advocating journalists consistently write articles indicating that the current state of U.S.G. torture revolves around a couple of top level officials against a couple of designated “enemy combatants” on the other side of the world.
You know g-d damn well that because of the current state of technology there is absolute limitless and infinite torture occurring right now inside the U.S. to many U.S. citizens. Babies up to the elderly are being tortured worse than anyone who has ever lived in the history of humanity up until now.
Posting this misleading information at this crucial time on this very serious topic may be extremely beneficial to the entity committing these abuses. Are you unknowingly cooperating in solidifying our subjugation?
They are letting ground level individuals in the U.S. frolic in the newest CIA technology intentionally unsupervised to target and infinitely torture individuals to death non-stop.
Because of the current state of technology there is absolutely limitless and infinite torture occurring here, NOT OVER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD TO 3 PEOPLE WHO EVERYONE HATES BECAUSE OF THE MEDIA TO BEGIN WITH.
Furthermore because the r1b idolaters apparently control 5 continents all to themselves they are responsible for causing a needless “torture race” around the world in every country where undoubtedly the minorities will exclusively suffer the brunt of the abuse. And that is the intent.
You are also greatly misleading people on the actual use and intent of the torture. They are using it for technological cheating and advancement, for continuation of genocide into the only non-r1b controlled areas on earth, They are very simply “fishing” for anything interesting, frivolously experimenting and using these people’s brains as gasoline for their idolatrous nationalism leaving permanent genetic damage on humans that took hundreds of thousands of years to evolve.
It is especially concerning that the war on terror was intentionally instigated to begin with and one now wonders if the intent was an excuse to torture these people as if they were a natural resource.
It is regretted that I live in a time and place where this unwitting propaganda is disseminated by the most adversarial organization available.
Please sound the alarm instead of digging our grave.
I’m not sure I follow. What TI has done very well is to back up their words with actual documents – actual evidence. I see no evidence in this comment except that the writer is dealing with some frustrations.
Since you apparently think you have it all figured out, how about you share the details and proofs rather than attacking the writer of this article.
What I find utterly HYSTERICAL — is when that maggot John Brennan “assured us” that it won’t happen again.
Allow me to translate that here:….
John Brennan / Clapper et al: “I assure you we will CONTINUE to keep tabs on every one of you people in Congress, every email, every document, every conversation, right down to everyone of your kid’s conversations.. we’re going to know right down to what time of day you took your last shit and how much it weighed — but WE GUARANTEE YOU — You won’t EVER find out about it again — WE PROMISE!!!”
Oklahoma
“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” —Aldous Huxley, brother of the transhumanist and eugenicist Julian Huxley
Is there an agency in the federal government who has leadership that does not commit perjury? Attorney General Eric Holder, CIA Director Brennan, NSA Director Clapper, FBI Director MuellerI, IRS Director Koskinen have all committed perjury. Were they or their organizations punished? No, every single one of their agencies has been rewarded with more money and more power over the American people. This is madness!!
By the American people no less.
Keep that marketed health peace-of-mind coming to the fragile, anxiety ridden progressive left, and treats for their public Working People. It’s worth a little police- and surveillance-state.
In the Andrea Mitchell hyperlink (above), Brennan has some curious things to say about security clearances and security starting about the 45:00 mark, which more-or-less bear on the Snowden affair. But it also suggests that if they’re that disingenuous about counter-security, maybe it explains why they weren’t able to secure the Secretary of State’s communications from outside pilfering.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-spied-kerry-peace-effort-report
Isn’t that interesting?
Seems like the See Ay Yay and the Enness Say are very good at surveilling people but not so good at keeping stuff from getting surveilled.
What the hey? Thanks, Coram, you keep us pointed to important info.
And there were casualties at another U. N. school/shelter. This needs to stop.
Union workers work with local law enforcement torture individuals through stalking by twitter. They follow, steal, and ruin your reputation. It is excessive force and must not be tolerated. Individuals involved in this kind of torture can drive a person to insanity. This is unjust treatment and inhumane. Union workers are the mafia of the United States of America. They use attorneys to fight THIER cases and private investigators to frame people. They are far worse than the CIA who hunt down peole wanting to kill Americans. They are anarchy. It is the French Revolution. There will be no mercy from these kinds of people as they do not care for college educated people they only want revenge for THIER labor issues. There is no end to what they will do to punish you if you speak out against them. They will make your life miserable. There is no court in the United States that has attorneys that fight for educated people who retailiate against a workers compensation legal team or Union worker.
I had written a long comment in response but realized responding will legitimize your stupidity.
Go shout in a toilet bowl. That’s the only place worth hearing your views
You are exactly the kind of hate mongering fool I’m talking about. Praise for this website for showing how people reapond to true events that happen to people while you are stuck in some CIA dream fantasy. They wouldn’t hire you don’t think of applying
Your point being, with the regard to the content of Dan’s article?
TORTURE IS COMMITTED BY UNION WORKERS GET YOUR ASS ON THAT STORY!!!
Uh, what Union? The International Brotherhood of Teamsters? The National Rural Letter Carrier’s Association?
The Letter Union of anthrax in the legislatures notebook that never got sent to an emergency unit only a lawyers office. The Union the police and firman belong to.
You might be a complete lunatic. Just throwing it out there.
They drive you to insanity that’s the point. Go check it out in Oklahoma.
Or she might be a government agent *pretending* to be a lunatic to discredit present discussion.
Wonder Woman will raise three children with honors who become democrates for democracy not socialist willing to give all power to thugs.
What is WRONG with you?! Is this what you took away from the article??! wow.
“The Letter Union of anthrax in the legislatures notebook that never got sent to an emergency unit only a lawyers office. The Union the police and firman belong to.”
Need some serious medication I guess.
Peace.
Sleepy citizens of the socialized media wake up! In your medieval kingdom Snow White waits to be heard. Letters ten years ago meant to be anonymous are linked to an individual. The legislatures realize the information could be detrimental to their wealth of workers compensation payouts. They hire Union workers to follow, harass, torture the individual who spoke out against them. You no longer have amenity when talking to your legislatures. You are no longer a voice in America. You have to be a wealthy lawyer with workers compensation benefits to speak. You won’t get invited to parties to sponsor politicians. You will be tortured for the rest of your life. Shut up Snow White. Your seven dwarfs just beat the shit out of you.
What on Earth are you going on about? Better go taker your meds.
The United States of America tortures people and so does Oklahoma. It’s not the death penalty it’s called Workers Compensation attorneys following people so they shut up.
On to the source of the world dilemma please.
“The 161 Bankers Who Run the World”
See: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/31/the-161-bankers-who-run-the-world/
And “Brad,” not banned–d e l e t e d. Two posts with a dependency relationship to a top-branch third in the thread. One a lengthy comment by a senior editor only minutes after my reply to that.
My post under “deb[variation on root]” in immediate reply to a proprietor of this site (with some measure of public profile) was del’d only last week–along with the latter’s multi-paragraph post to a third commentator (who no longer appears in these pages). And both of the latter will go sans name because, when both are included in this context, posts in the past day similar to this coincidentally never see the light of the board.
BTW, I can no longer keep a user name active in Salon comments for > 24 hrs.
“…go sans” ?????????? Is that you Mona? ROFL
No.
Salon.com repeatedly censored the commentator “Brad Benson.” But Brad suggests below that if a so-called Socialist group is at odds with so-called leftists, then one of them is really a fake leftie (even tho’ history is rife with leftist vs. leftist rivalries).
Now, is Salon fake leftist, or is it the repeatedly banned commentator “Brad Benson”?
Are you seriously suggesting anyone has to dance the way you dictate?
“…There’s a brand new dance, but I don’t know it’s name…
…That people from bad homes do again and again…
…It’s big and it’s bland, full of tension and fear…
…They do it over there, but we don’t do it here….
“Fashion! Turn to the left….
Fashion, turn to the right…”
OMG, I just watched Halston, and he’s fracking right.
You got to fuck them up. This poor guy thinks he’s the chingada? We the frackers, soda crackers. David Bowie cutting down a catwalk rug. OMG, the 70s were F4 full bore sell out time. MIC could do no wrong until James Bond stepped on his own dong.
How can you be “repeatedly banned”? When you are banned, you are banned. You do not have an opportunity to be banned again, unless I am somehow mistaken.
“Brad” has said in the past that multiple occurrances of his posts were invisible-ized to other readers at Salon–which I believe–but that he communicated with their staff about it and that they eventually reached some kind of agreement.
He later wrote here, if I’m not mistaken, he’s finally had enough of them. But he’s never been suspected by his audience of deploying other user names either there or here.
When Salon does what he’s talking about, it imposes a sort of super-ignore on the user’s Livefyre acct. without informing the user.
No, you’re right, Obama is NOT Cheney or Bush. The executive branch’s intelligence community have been spying on their overseers minimally since mid 2001 when Congress was threatening Bush & Ashcroft with Contempt of Congress over getting access to the Boston area Justice Dept. records covering decades.
This was a Congressional Corruption Investigation looking into decades of FBI, Justice Dept, and MA ‘law enforcement’ PUBLIC CORRUPTION.
Bush pulled a smooth one and signed an “Executive Privilege Order’ on 12-13-2001, denying Congresses request, and in direct response, the first known “Executive Assassination Ring” domestic Political MURDER took place on Cape Cod MA, three weeks later, on 1-5-2002.
The victim was former 17 year MA Asst. AG, Christopher Worthington’s daughter, Christa. An awful story but to cut to the chase my nephew had bragged about this HIT, and the setup of their Patsy’s trial and investigation EXPOSED high level PUBLIC CORRUPTION.
It involved one nightmare after the other being TARGETED by the ‘intelligence’ community, as a COINTELPRO TARGET.
I contacted several members of Congress and ran into many lawless individuals that abide by no law, let alone have any kind moral compass.
The GOP and other Senators & Congresspersons came onto my website about this many times, and I caught them being tailed and spied on by either the FBI, CIA or NSA’s partner in crime, Akamai Technologies, who came on within 5 seconds, and watched their every move. The nation has been overthrown by BANKSTERS and MOBSTERS.
http://LibertyAndJusticeUnited.org
Actually, Obama is as bad as Cheney since he is an accessory after the fact of every one of the Bush-Cheney crimes, including torture, war crimes and crimes against humanity. By refusing to prosecute any of these criminals he has committed an even worse crime against democracy itself. When powerful individuals are left unaccountable for their misdeeds, while the powerless are hounded and prosecuted relentlessly, government is no longer of, by or for – the people. That is Obama’s most heinous crime, for which he himself has not been held to account. Only when the rule of law is restored to apply equally to everybody can this country claim to be a democracy again.
A playlist for all you haters out there. I suggest 95 dB SPL for 6 hours to understand no touch torture.
Not Britney Spears for Pirates!
1. Fuck Your God – Deicide
2. Die MF Die – Dope
3. Take Your Best Shot – Dope
4. White America – Eminem
5. Kim – Eminem
6. Barney Theme Song – Barney the Dinosaur
7. Bodies – Drowning Pool
8. Enter Sandman – Metallica
9. Meow Mix TV Commercial – Meow Meow Meow
10. Sesame Street TV Theme
Which of these composers/bands record companies have spoken up?
I know Big Bird was unhappy to come in at number 10
Being a fucking Sockpuppet that is!
Fuck you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rowan Park
11/12/75
London
My old man:
http://www.studiopark.co.uk/
AKA Worzel Gummidge. (secondary email account blocked by TI)
Expect me
From bygone days before the Internet:
“All governments are run by liars and nothing they say should be believed.” I. F. Stone
“Believe nothing until it has been officially denied.”- Claude Cockburn populatised this one.
Perhaps we can take heed from the quotation Cockburn leaves us in the last lines of his memoir In Time of Trouble (1956) – “In the little moment that remains to us between the crisis and the catastrophe, we may as well drink a glass of champagne.” – Paul Claudel
Let me be more clear so I can get a good opinion from you and the name of the best constitional lawyer in the United States of America. If a person writes a letter to their congressmen without using a return address and the police use twitter and gang stalking that is funded by attorneys who want to see this person go to jail for their opinion is that torture. The grounds for following this person are that they letters were dangerous because of the Anthrax scare.
Depends on what you said in your letter, Lauren. There is nothing illegal in their investigating you if your letter posed a threat to someone. Why don’t you just type in what you wrote. I think people could then give you a more reliable opinion on what is happening to you.
This is a puzzling way to end this article. I have attempted to decipher it.
Dan Froomkin does not strike me as an anarchist. Yet only an anarchist would be so simple minded as to seriously believe the president could be tricked into issuing an executive order that would effectively terminate the employment of everyone in government, including the president himself. Governments do not cause themselves to disappear. So the statement is obviously not serious.
Yet the statement really doesn’t work as a joke – unless the entire article was a joke about the absurdity of expecting ethical behavior in government. But on the surface, the writing seems so earnest that it’s hard to suspect the author of being so thoroughly cynical.
So the most likely reason for making a statement that is so obviously impossible, is to cause the reader to question the preceding sentence ‘But he’s no Cheney’. If the last sentence is false, then so is that one. In other words, Froomkin is making the point that Obama is every bit as good as Cheney (maybe even better), but can’t quite bring himself to say it directly. From covering politics he appears to have mastered the politicians method of communication – using inference, context and what is not said to convey meaning.
“ethical behavior”
Interesting concept, BM – please elaborate. I’d love to know your definition.
Ethical behavior means subordinating your own interests to those of the leader. It can only exist if accompanied by a regime of harsh punishments for non-compliance. The federal government’s ‘insider threat program’ (where employees are told to rat out any coworkers who show sympathy for the underdog), is an example of promoting ethical behavior – albeit it has only achieved partial success so far, mainly because the punishments are insufficiently draconian.
You’ve been watching Meet The Press (aka David Gregory) again haven’t you BM …
#rotyourbrain.com
You stated, BM:
And then you say
which I find at odds with your first statement. Quite puzzling you are BM. I’d fully expected you’d not find ethical behavior in government absurd, but rather the standard for the behavior required, and conformance to it easily attained by nudges and pushes in the right places.
So it seems, according to your definition, your criticism of Dan’s article is mistaken, or else your definition is in error. As I see it, both Brennan and Obama are behaving entirely subordinately to some higher authority, an authority, it appears, who’s holding extremely tempting rewards out to each of them.
While I don’t acknowledge any imperative to be consistent from one comment to the next, in one case I was speculating about Froomkin’s motivations in writing the article and in the other offering my personal definition of ethical behavior. It is possible that Froomkin, having not thoroughly considered the matter, has views different from my own.
No doubt. He most likely has a definition,
or at least a theory, of ethical behavior that is quite dissimilar to yours. My spideysense
tells me his idea of it is closer to my own idea of it than to yours.
Poor Dan Froomkin doesn’t quite know it (yet), but he has entered a wild and woolly place here @ TI. *Hell fire, Greenwald (Hisself), for all intents and purposes, is an unindicted co-conspirator.
In the (not so) distant past, while this Froomkin article may have been considered cutting-edge radicalism at the WaPo, here @ TI it’s considered little better than passe.
… but he’s no Cheney.
p.s. BM, speaking of mastering the politicians method using inference and what is not said to convey meaning … you’re not so shabby yourself./
“we tortured some folks” is Obama’s ‘softening the narrative’
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/08/03/we-tortured-some-folks/
^ It’s not far down the rabbit hole to dig into the lies at a much deeper level
Yep, The whole topic is “softening the narrative”, or “red herring”/”limited hangout”
It’s offensive that “our” top journalists assist in pretending torture in the west is about “the president and cia torturing a couple of muslims on the other side of the world” that everyone hates because of the media to begin with.
I’m losing count of how many people ive personally seen the usg torture to death here. extremely offensive, and Froomkin chases the carrot. Why don’t u write about the little children the government tortures to death here or the elderly ladies? What about the now over 3 million u.s. citizens reporting high-tech torture in the past few years?, and that’s with only a small percentage “reporting” it. You don’t have anything to say about the 90% (or whatever) semitic y-dna in guantanamo? There’s not a mention of what they’re actually doing with the torture research/experimentation results and who’s obviously ending up with it.
Snowden wanted an “open debate” and one sides getting tortured by the other. Doesn’t that automatically give us the victory?
This website is interesting to help widen that open debate you mention ,and that Edward Snowden was right to instigate :
http://www.therenditionproject.org.uk/documents/index.html
From memory I recall that Kitti Wasinand Thailand’s Foreign Ministry spokesman, and former Ambassador to England, dismissed as groundless a report published by a major New York paper claiming that Abu Zadaydah was tortured in a CIA prison in Thailand. There are unclassified documents available on the Internet documenting the emails showing the denials.
Given that Kitti Wasimond has been appointed to the Interim Legislature in Thailand it will be interesting to see if anything released from Wahington does admit existence, and locations of foreign CIA “black sites” now that torturing of folks has been admitted.
The list of anyone who is proven to have lied over this needs publishing so that not just the perpetrators but also anyone proven to have knowingly and falsely denied and covered up illegal torture programmes can be brought to trial and justice.
Oliver North and John Poindexter were both found guilty of crimes in Iran-Contra.
After which, Oliver North continued to work with Dick Cheney on COG (Continuity of Government) planning, and John Poindexter, I believe is still working top flight in the area of mega-data database? please correct me if this is wrong
These guys just don’t GO AWAY!!!
That was his old job. Apparently he’s now just one of the folksy folks who retire to teach English and write crime novels to sell on their blogs.
http://apps.johnpoindexter.com/Blog/
http://apps.johnpoindexter.com/Blog/User/UserProfile/
He writes about the crimes he’s well familiar with:
He’s retired now and become one of the folksy folks, teaching English and writing crime novels featuring the crimes he’s committed himself.
From his profile on his blog:
http://apps.johnpoindexter.com/Blog/
At least he worked unlike the constitional lawyer Glenn Grennwald who hasn’t been in trial court in how long? Oh, he’s writing stories and pissing the USG off. That’s good work!
“But he’s no Cheney.”
Quite an enduring legacy, that.
It is overwhelmingly evident just how far we have moved into fascism. The CIA and NSA are accountable to nobody.
We, the American People, have been ;F’d’. The last 3 administrations have done nothing to insure any type of ‘securty’, but have only managed to aggravate a lot of the world’s population. We should, and must, do better.
Now here’s news I am unaware of. USPS guidelines and requirements doesn’t stipulate return address is manditory. Can you guide me to a case in point or article
Anthrax and demotic terrorism are considered dangerous according to some local law enforcement officials who happen to be pro Union members and very unreliable for secrecy when investigating protest letters.
Anthrax and domestic terrorism are investigated by pro union police officers who don’t take kindly to protest letters against workers compensation and consequently lawyers insist on prosecuting these cases for money. They use twitter as a stalking tactic to torture
Can anyone here tell me of writing a letter to you local congressman without using a return address is grounds for ten years of torture?
Is that why John McCain won’t get off my lawn?
John McCain warned you about campaign finance a long time ago and you never took his advice.
Torture? But the government had a rendition plan in place, with suspected terrorists sent to countries with better interrogation techniques. Friends and allies of the US. Saudi Arabia is one (oops)
And hey, even if it was CIA agents responsible. I watched the Spring Break DVDS. Some Americans when they are overseas can get a little carried away. They wouldn’t have done that at home
No, they probably wouldn’t have. Had they tried death threats from all sides would occupy their time for at least 6 months. Possibly with an actual confrontation or 10 with a nationalist or group of nationalists.
America was built on lies that is how it is.
Que sera, sera
Whatever will be, will be
The future’s not ours to see?
As usual, Brennan was playing word games. The CIA didn’t (supposedly) actually hack a SENATE computer. They hacked a CIA COMPUTER that was being USED by Senate investigators.
So technically – and we have various people in the information security community backing this interpretation – one can say the CIA didn’t hack Senate computers.
Of course, what they DID hack was the Senate STAFF.
As Don Rickles used to say, “What, that’s better?”
“History will assuredly record that President Obama lied about a number of things, particularly as he carried water for the intelligence community and the military. But he’s no Cheney.”
“So if you’re the president, you fire everyone who lies. Starting with John Brennan.”
If you are the president you must kiss Brennan’s ring like Cheney did with his predecessor and like any president who wants to stay alive must do.
It’s not about the lying Dan, although that is certainly one small issue. This guy has been involved in the CIA Torture Program and is the number two drone murdering bastard on the staff, right behind Obama. All of these people should be shipped off to the Hague.
Instead, the Democratic Party is now getting ready to nominate a War Criminal with actual War Crime Experience for the first time in history. Meanwhile torture continues in our name and the drone murders create new enemies each and every day.
Yes I agree. And I want to see the attorney’s for these torture victims. Are they absent because there is no air time for them? Are they writing books about the constitution? Are they just complaining that someone has been tortured so lets let all people suspected of killing Americans go? I think this website is about bitching.
I don’t think Cheney had anything to worry about. He didn’t have to kiss their ring. They were kissing his. He made Hallibuton what is was when he was Defense secretary under HW. He was made CEO for that effort even though he had been a lawyer and politician his entire life.
I do not want to be a folk – to easy to torture.
Don’t worry; folks who are respectful of the US government are not the folks who get tortured. The folks trained to do the torturing are taught to distinguish between various types of folk. So you really have nothing to worry about, unless you’re one of the wrong types of folk of course.
Apparently there’s a “folk” song for torture.
“It’s a little bit gruesome and a little bit long…”
quote” The folks trained to do the torturing are taught to distinguish between various types of folk.”unquote
Of course, your idol knew that, schmuck. And look where it got HIM.
http://www.cardcow.com/images/set257/card00216_fr.jpg
quote” So you really have nothing to worry about, unless you’re one of the wrong types of folk of course.”unquote
I’m sure your idol never saw it coming either. Now why don’t you slither on back to your cesspool where you belong. Your stench is overwhelming the place.
The folks who do the torturing are folks too??? But they do have the choice!
The silence of the Lemmings, uh, people, is deafening.
And this? “But he’s no Cheney.”
Please. So now there are the lesser of two evils between War Criminals. What bullshit.
A sidebar: new figures on US gov’t info requests to Twitter. This includes all levels of security, including local.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/07/twitter-receives-record-number-information-requests-us-government
Odd, though: they say they can’t say how many National Security Letters and whatnot, but you’d think that local government requests, if covered by a search warrant, are something they can report, at least in the aggregate, without breaching security. If so, that may tell us, by simple subtraction, what the rest are.
Can we get a number on the amount of time the attorney’s have requested texts and email from citizens and consequently been wrong about allegations to an individual. How can we get statistics on that?
If it’s US attorneys (i.e., Federal prosecutors) who requested this stuff under NSLs or such, Twitter can’t say, and neither will the prosecutors. If it was local prosecutors, they should have had warrants, but the trouble is, a search on every county DA’s office or local county magistrate would be impossible, but maybe Twitter can release that info. Then you can see if any of it led to a successful prosecution. Good luck.
So if a prosecutor leaks the information in a federal case I’m assuming its grounds for dismissal. Twitter can be used a form of torture by local law enforcement so if you leak the access to this information you have essentially losses the case. Why then would local law enforcement continue this kind of torture? Because lawyers insist there are ways to win cases based on probable cause. Lawyers are guilty of torture without due process.
If they leak it in some prejudicial way. If they simply submit it as evidence in a trial it’s subject to the usual tests for admissibility and relevance.
Given the financial state of the US, does Twitter give them a volume discount, or does it charge its regular price?
Do attorneys get a special discount through private investigators?
This ilk doesn’t have an ounce of integrity.
I should hope not, as it would indicate a failure of the Senate confirmation process for senior officials. I believe the drug test component of the screening process can detect anything over the threshold limit of half an ounce of integrity.
I believe the drug test component of the screening process can detect anything over the threshold limit of half an ounce of integrity.
The limits of detection have improved significantly since the days when you were measuring such things, Mr. Mussolini. Integrity can now be detected in parts per billion (ppb), so there really is no excuse for even the minutest amount to make it through the screening process.
Sometimes technological progress is of dubious benefit. A trace amount of integrity can be a good thing – as it allows you to anticipate and counter people who have integrity. Even more importantly, it is sometimes necessary to feign integrity, and without any clue of what it is, this can be difficult.
Things appear complicated only because people insist on viewing the constitution as some sacred text, rather than the makeshift, jury rigged document filled with fudged passages, omissions and errors that it actually is. The Directorate of National Intelligence is in fact the fourth branch of government – it doesn’t really report to the President. Having this fourth branch actually creates the very balance of powers that the framers of the constitution, in their own feeble way, were attempting to achieve. Everyone knows that a four legged chair is more balanced than a three legged stool. So having only three branches of government never did make any sense.
The formal constitutional role of the fourth branch of government should be to spy upon the other three. Does this give it too much power? – not at all; its only real power is the threat to make public what the other three branches are doing by revealing the information it has amassed from spying. Granted it would never actually carry out such a drastic threat, but the mere possibility acts as a brake on the excesses of the other three branches (since there is a theoretical possibility that they could be called to account).
So this aligns with the intentions of the framers of the constitution, and if the level of education and knowledge in the 18th century had approached that of today, it would have been incorporated in the original document.
Nice try, Benito, but you forget the press is the proctologist and if you don’t want to bend over, tell it to a judge.
The press may have started out as the proctologist, but they have become trapped halfway up the rectum. In general, they like it there, which more or less finishes their aspirations of being the fourth branch.
And someone has to watch corrupt politicians who serve both the left and the right. Essentially, no other branch of go rennet can do that and we the peole will always be wondering who has escaped legal problems by doin favors for one another.
It’s not realistic to think that Brennan could be forced to appear in court; his testimony could implicate all sorts of powerful government officials. As it is, he simply owes Diane Feinstein a favor; isn’t that much neater and simpler than opening up a legal can of worms?
This entire website is about opening a can of worms!
I have heard enough about the government following and harassing people and all of you seem to be missing the big point here. There are private security companies hired by attorneys and corporate owners to follow and harass anyone who objects to laws which favor the Union. These people can intimidate, harass and torture you until you no longer object to their purposes. They are very scary people that want their payouts from corporations and will do anything including having multiple back surgeries to prove they are incapable of work. They have been known to harass people for years especially those who may be facing legal challenges because of their protesting. The french revolution is near.
Fascism is as Fascism does. Both the Us and Israel have become the evil they fought against in World War II. Not that the Us was ever particularly democratic.
There is growing concern the lack of jobs will create a hostile environment for all citizens. These jobs can not be save while workers compensation continues to eat away at the foundation of America. There are those who want to work and not receive checks in the mail from lawyers.
Oh, I’d much prefer to get a check form a lawyer than to work, what’s your gripe? I know you want to tel me.
You seem to have an unhealthy fixation with lawyers that has made you a babbling fool. . Take a fucking pill…. please.
It’s always healthy to get your point across. This site is about legal action consistently focused on reprimand of officials who do their jobs everyday. Lawyers commit crimes against humanity everyday by focusing their energy on crimes that have very little purpose other than making money. Torture by the CIA is act of war not a project for lawyers to get famous for by writing books like Glenn does.
With the number of “CRIMINALS” on book tour, you pick on Glen ??
Thank you Glen Greenwald for all your EFFORT.
A fucking pill? There’s a pill for that?
I recognize the dilemma of one who’s been exposed and has found how little anyone cares because so few understand, but it’s not a plot other than by Koch to keep formaldehyde in our blood.
They are ALL despicable. They are ALL liars. American democracy is a bombed out shell, in shambles – shredded – never, ever expected to return. The so-called press is more to blame than anyone as the media knows they are ALL liars but is well-paid not to tell the American people. The only way a few of us stay informed is to go to well-trusted sources – the Intercept being one. The only other way we can know the truth is to follow the old adage – “you know a tree by its fruit.” If the fruit is rotten – selling arms to Israel so it can continue to murder children – torture – lying, and etc. then the tree is rotten to the core.
President Obama, fire Messrs. Clapper and Brennan. It is right. it is just. It might be one small step in building hope that this country can be saved.
much needed post. thanks! Is there a Gresham’s Law analogue for lying?
Clearly:
Publican administrations demonstrate this even more ably and thoroughly.
As others have said, firing simply isn’t the answer. These men need to be prosecuted for their crimes. Precedent needs to be set, that this behavior will not tolerated and that there will be consequences.
What is really scary here is that the current occupant of the White House, our President, Mr. Obama, has no problem with keeping him at the helm of this rogue agency.
Which clearly indicates that the leader of the once free world, is complicit in undermining our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.
And yesterday, with his statement indicating “full support” for Brennan and his treason, is tantamount to his admitting to treasonous activities as well.
Mel: Agreed!
OR
We can use the example of the Kansas City School District and FIRE EVERYBODY and ask them to submit reasons and justifications for RE-HIRE
We have the 2014 mid-term
We have the 2016 Presidential
OK we’re crashed into the proverbial brick wall
and we have a completely corrupt system and
a stand-up act for a MEDIA
I would think it’s time to CLEAN OUT A FEW (a lot) of offices in the area of Washington DC
“As far as the allegations of the CIA hacking into Senate computers, nothing could be further from the truth,” depends on what you mean by “hacking”; To Brennan hacking means “by a non-authorized entity”; but the CIA was authorized. It’s like Clinton’s famous statement it depends on what you mean by sex.
firing IS NOT the ANSWER
If Brennan and Clapper were both removed……no change in AGENDA
Thank you for this website……Enough of you informed souls out there
Be strong ….Weather the idiots……Thank you glen and all
Hey folks, you know, we tortured some folks. But that wasn’t our fault because it was a desperate time and you can’t blame patriots for defending the country. And hey folks, you know, we had to tell a few lies, and John Brennan and Mr. Clapper, well, we always do try to tell the least untruthful truth. That’s what I’m doing right now. But I’m doing with my tone, and my language, you know, use of “folks,” for example. So, folks, hey, let’s lay off the sanctimonious stuff. I mean you never hear me doing that, do you? And, folks, this latest fuck up with the truce in Palestine? We can’t blame those soldiers for continuing to search for tunnels only 90 minutes after the truce started. No, that was all right, I wouldn’t say that was an unwise thing to be doing, and hey! they’re patriots just like us. Same with my sending all that money into Syria for the moderate rebels there. Maybe not wise, maybe even pretty stupid, but well meant! And that’s where we’re at, you see. Folks. Hey, don’t take it so hard. Maybe you should sit back, play some golf. That’s it, folks, and have a good day.
Don’t forget to drop a few ending “g’s”…like…”hopin'”…”prayin'”
So’s you can sound like “just folks”.
Firing isn’t the answer. We should never stop short of prosecutions.
Speaking of lies and liars:
A Guide to John Rizzo’s Lies, For Lazy Journalists
Published April 17, 2014 | By emptywheel
If Rizzo were to admit that the representations he made to Yoo back in 2002 were false, then the legal sanction CIA got to conduct torture would crumble.
And unlike a lot of the lies CIA — and John Rizzo in particular — told DOJ during the life of the torture program, I’m not absolutely certain CIA knew this one to be a lie when they told it. CIA (and FBI) definitely believed Zubaydah was a high ranking al Qaeda figure when they caught him. In his CSRT, Zubaydah describes admitting he was al Qaeda’s number 3 under torture. Though it’s not clear whether that was the torture that took place before or after the memo authorizing that torture got written, raising the possibility that CIA presented lies Zubaydah told under torture to DOJ to get authorization for the torture they had already committed. But by the time of the memo, CIA had also had 4 months to to read Zubaydah’s diaries, which make such matters clear (and had it in their possession, so that by itself should invalidate the memo). So they should have and probably did know, but I think it marginally conceivable they did not.
Still, that doesn’t excuse journalists who have these facts available to them yet treat Rizzo as an honest interlocutor, as James Rosen is only the latest in a long line of journalists to do.
So as a service to those journalists who aren’t doing the basic work they need to do on this story, I thought I’d make a list of the documented lies Rizzo tells just in the first 10 pages of his “memoir.” These don’t include items that may be errors or lies. These don’t include everything that I have strong reason to believe is a lie or that we know to be lies but don’t yet have official documentation to prove it.–Marcy Wheeler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVyl402W5s
Rufus nailed it.
So….We the People don’t like the fact that all three branches of the US government are hopelessly corrupted by their Zionist Central Banker masters. Yup….all of them bought and/or blackmailed to ensure that the .001 % of the world’s population continue to amass wealth while the remaining percentage lives in subjugation and slavery.
The problem is the economic and political control element. Presently, we have a sham President who is elected by the central bankers, a sham Legislative Branch who is controlled by the central bankers, and a sham Supreme Court that is essentially appointed by the sham Executive who works exclusively for the central bankers. Of course…this little game is unconstitutional and it is time for it to end. This is our country, not theirs. They are supposed to be our representative government, upholding our Constitution, not theirs. And there are more of us than there are of them.
I suspect that the reason We the People have not hung these criminals from the rafters and put them all behind bars is because We the People are failing to clearly identify the cause of the iniquity which is the complete economic control of the central bankers. Once that is acknowledged openly without all of the over-intellectualism and sham two-party politics, we can exact justice upon the perpetrators. In the People’s Court of the United States of America as opposed to the mock courts of Washington, D.C. which set Federal US law from their own little nation state.
The following article is a nice concise summary that pinpoints the problem and discusses solutions.
“The Coming Return of the Real US Dollar”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/30/the-coming-return-of-the-real-usdollar/
It is time to get a grip.
argle bargle snargle JEWS!! argle bargle snargle
You are incorrect. Idiots are the reason we the people are never going to get our collective crap together.
@hodigicus:
You are the one discussing people of the Jewish Religion as opposed to the reality that the ideology of Zionism is partly political and economic control of all of the perceived assets (land, land assets like water, food, and mineral deposits) and people.
The Jewish Religion and people of that religion are being persecuted by largely Christian Zionists in an effort to gain control of the aforementioned assets.
Central banking is the underlying component of Zionist economic control. Other components are Political control of governments and Spiritual control of organized Religions – most notably the Christian and Jewish religions.
Yes…idiots are the reason that humanity “can’t get our collective crap together.”
“The following article is a nice concise summary that pinpoints the problem and discusses solutions.”
For me, the article cited (over 2700 words w/o addendum and almost 4500 words with it) was neither concise (“giving a lot of information clearly and in a few words; brief but comprehensive.”) nor was it edited well.
And while I agree with some of the assessments made, particularly as to money being the controlling factor in how we’re being governed, I think that Ralph Nader’s new book, “Unstoppable: The Emerging Left-Right Alliance To Dismantle The Corporate State” to offer both a clearer picture of where we are as a nation, and how to change it in favor of the citizens, and not those we elect or the corporatists’ who finance it all.
The link provided is to an NPR interview with Nader about the book.
“Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein
@ SillyPutty:
“…..while I agree with some of the assessments made, particularly as to money being the controlling factor in how we’re being governed….”
Right to the main point then. It really doesn’t matter how one gets to the point – that being economic control of humanity as a resource on Planet Earth; it only matters that one recognize that it is the foundation for that control method. This growing recognition is critical to mounting opposition.
You have helped with that with your reference to Nader’s book. That is what is important.
The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is the blueprint for the New World Empire- The authoritarian surveillance police state that enforces it’s global imperialism with gunboat diplomacy and totalitarian domestic and international policies that promote above all universal war profiteering and eenslabement
Er… not really Johnny. It started out as a French political satire that was hijacked by a German novelist, and then translated into Russian, which version got spread around pretending to be an original Jewish document.
Some very bad people are Jewish (Netanhayu), or Christian (Dick Cheney), or Muslim (Osama bin Laden), even Buddhist (the violent anti-Muslim monks of Thailand), etc., etc., etc.. All sorts of people do bad things, sometimes very bad, and conversely all sorts do good as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion#Sources_for_the_Protocols
@ jtremaine:
Although I have read the work that you cite; it is difficult for me to take it out the realm of organized Religion. That is; I see it only as supportive to the Judeo/Christian Bible which I view as largely religious propaganda.
Reading all you comments, there is great knowledge of history. Poor Brennan. If only he too had good knowledge of history all this could have been avoided. 9/11 reports proved failure by intelligence agencies to share intelligence and cooperate with each other. So all Brennan had to do was phone the director of the NSA. He would have then received all information required. Hopefully now the agencies work together to establish who the whistle blower is that alerted Congress to the computer hacking. If they learned from the Snowden incident. You cannot have people leaking intelligence operational matters (CIA computer hacking)
Please don’t reference the “911 reports” to explain anything. That CYA commission held no one accountable. Those involved at all levels of government who through commission or omission facilitated the atrocity were given a pass or promoted….if they were publically identified at all. “Able Danger” anyone?
So if you’re the president, you fire everyone who lies. Starting with BHO.
In yesterday’s speech, President Obama said “We tortured some folks” and that “we shouldn’t be too sanctimonious”. He has really lost touch. He is living in a bubble of intelligence advisors and has just lost touch with the American public. I can’t believe I voted for him 3 times (if you count the primary).
Good, it’s on foxnews.com and not nytimes.com. Nobody believes FOX News.
UPDATE
Dan: “It’s about the lying … So if you’re the president, you fire everyone who lies. Starting with John Brennan.”
President: ““It is important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect about the tough job those folks had,” he said. “A lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots…. That needs to be understood and accepted. We have to as a country take responsibility for that so hopefully we don’t do it again in the future.”
*But he’s no Cheney.
Dems are the folksy folks party. Bad things happened to folks down there, but let’s not forget that folks got health care..
zese volks ver joost foolowink oooorders.
Reading all your comments, you all have good knowledge and memory of history. AHHH, poor Brennan. If only he too had a good memory of history, all this could have been averted. He didn’t even have to think beck that far. 9/11 was investigated and reports and recommendations produced showing that the intellegence agencies need to share and communicate intellegence better both internally and with each other. So all Brennan needed to do was call (preferably from a sidewalk pay phone) the director of the NSA. he could have received all the information he required. That ship has sailed now unfortunately. I’m hoping that now the CIA and NSA are working together to establish who the whistle blower is who told congress about the computer hacking. Has nothing been learned from the Snowden incident. Information regarding intellegence operations cannot be allowed
As I read all your comments, I see a lot of you with great knowledge of history. AHHH, poor Brennan. If only he too had better knowledge of history this could have all been averted. He didn’t even have to go too far back. Just after 9/11 reviews and reports were presented showing that more and better co-operation and sharing of intellegence between all intellegence agencies was needed. So all he needed to do was pick up the phone (prefferably a nearby sidewalk pay phone) and call the director of the NSA and got all the information he required.
Unfortunately that ship has sailed. Maybe he could at least get the NSA to provide the details they have on who alerted congress to the hacking. These whistle blowers need to be stopped before they alert congress to anything else. Hasn’t anyone learnt anything from the Snowden incident that staff on the inside can’t just releases information involving intellegence operations.
I have other ideas. It’s about the torture and murder. The photo demonstrates that Brennan has other ideas. It’s about the constipation.
i hope someone more learned than I will tell me – why isn’t this treason?
Give the President 6 months to investigate and prosecute John Brennan. If he doesn’t, impeach him for violating the Constitution by seriously interfering with Congressional power. Once done, give Biden the same timetable. If he doesn’t do it, impeach him. Keep impeaching until someone investigates and prosecutes all executive interferences with Congressional Constitutional power. If Brennan is prosecuted, convicted and sent to jail, along with all those who knew that this was going on but did nothing, the next CIA director will think twice before spying on Congress.
And who will do this? The DOJ? ha…Congress? haha The only constitutional body that could investigate these things is the Federal Grand Jury, but they it has been castrated by codification and turned into a toll of the DOJ.
And who would do that? The DOJ? ha…Congress? haha
The only constitutional delegated authority to investigate such crimes is the Federal Grand Jury. Unfortunately, that estate has been castrated by the other 3 branches of the federal government and turned into a tool for the DOJ by conspired codification.
we want to force you off of ideas sites because we can’t debate you (and we fear saying on the board whether we’re for Big Gov’t or small gov’t–because we understand Big Gov’t means police and surveillance state but small gov’t means no human servitheth), we want to force your user names onto blacklists, to ban you–“and you will be”–because what you say hits too close to home, we want to force you off of the conversation because you spew, spew drivel;…but we’re not authoritarians
You’ve been banned tossed out countless times because you’re an incoherent freak who repeats himself thousands of times and always inevitably devolves into crap-flooding thread after thread with the same incoherent fantasies. You, and no one else, is responsible for you repeatedly being tossed out on your ear.
I think Facebook probably exists for the social butterfly stuff you like to talk about, busking and street faires and hoorahs for PI and YouTube pointers and Molly Crabapple and social network and pique and conspiratorial poster gossip and spew and feelings.
Wow you have that babbling stuff down pat!
You should know a dead parrot when you see one, and I’m looking at one right now.
So, what am I? Parrot pate? You aren’t insinuating you and Kitt have the keys to blow a Minuteman out of this silo, are you? Because I thought only authors had the right of refusal for our posts, you boastful boy wonders.
You don’t know the history he’s referring to. Hint, hint; it’s not about you.
My hovercraft, it is full of eels.
I’m thinking this guy is actually a rather clever propagandist for liberals
I haven’t noticed that any of your posts have been deleted below.
On the other hand, I’m here today because Salon.com has suppressed my comments for more than a month and this is the third time that they have done it to me in the past five months. It is one thing to have a comment censored or removed, which I also don’t believe should happen, but it is quite another when an organization that bills itself as a Salon, which normally is used to describe a place in which the open exchange of ideas is encouraged, has now just become another compromised site, which suppresses ideas.
Anyone that voices opposition to Hillary Clinton or cites here involvement in war crimes is attacked. If one attacks the Israeli Firsters that come to defend the War Crimes committed by this criminal state, it can result in permanent suspension.
I, for one, am glad that the Intercept is up an running.
Brad,
My reply, under “deborah,” to one GlennGreenwald was deleted just the other day, along with the latter’s lengthy comment to vegan red–both only minutes after mine appeared.
I have been deleted too many times to count at Salon.com, and I daresay orders of magnitude more than your innocuous, self absorbed ramblings. User names I’ve attempted to keep open now last no more than 24 hrs. there, and I’m resigned to their commentariat being ignorant of valuable insights in their progressive-leftist echo chamber. (But progressive leftists aren’t authoritarian.)
Brad,
My comment as “deborah” in immediate reply to a proprietor of this site with some measure of public profile (who shall go unnamed here because a comment similar to this coincidentally didn’t post when I used the name yesterday) was deleted along with a rather lengthy comment directed at vegan red by that same proprietor.
At Salon I can no longer maintain a user name in comments for longer than 24 hrs. tops. (Now question, Brad: Is Salon left wing or right wing?)
Brad,
My post under “deb[variation on root]” in immediate reply to a proprietor of this site (with some measure of public profile) was del’d only last week–along with the latter’s rather lengthy post to a third commentator (who no longer appears in these pages). And both of the latter will go be sans name because, when included, posts in the past day similar to this never see the light of the board.
I can no longer keep a user name active in Salon comments for > 24 hrs.
Fire Brennan? Fire Obama! I wonder if anyone will go to jail for this. Feinstein seems ready to forgive and forget already.
And replace them with what ? more puppets that front the diversion of public money into the coffers of the elite within the Council On Foreign Relations. Your just changing faces when really its the corruption and manipulation, and ownership of political power, and the intelligence agencies by the elite which needs addressing. Just look at whats currently going on with Fracking in the US and UK. Who do you think is behind that. Change the system, not just the faces – the system has cancer and is rotten to the core. Your a fool if you believe that you have democracy, or that you will somehow stop all of this depraved evil born from greed by sacking a few pawns in the bigger game.
Israel has a new Superhero: Genocide Guy
https://twitter.com/PresumptuousBug/status/495352113409822721
Well done — especially because of the humanizing in the background of precisely who the humans are that this genocide superhero wants to see murdered by Israel’s bombs and etc.
You never know. “Is genocide really wrong?” could become the new “Is torture really wrong?”
You know, I’m not surprised that average Americans don’t give a shit. They have immediate financial worries on their minds. Senators being spied on is not at the top of their list when the rent is due.
When I covered state government for a local newspaper our traffic spiked to record levels on news that a a Dollar General was coming to town, but there was almost no traffic when I covered a state senator who was censured for taking to $250,000 to steer legislation favorable to a developer. He was just the third senator in our entire state’s history ever to be censured–and he got to stay in office.
Family Dollar just merged with Dollar Tree. Maybe this means Dollar General has more competition, or else it suggests that Almighty Dollar is simply consolidating. These, of course, are the stores that sell to the modern-day Ma and Pa Joad families in the former United States.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/29/dollar-tree-family-dollar-strategy-impact/13314805/
“You know, I’m not surprised that average Americans don’t give a shit.”
This is not just a contemporary issue. It’s been going on for some time. Why do you think the Founders created a Democratic Republic instead of Direct Democracy?. The Public just want to hire someone to worry about government.
It’s a fact that more people voted and showed up at town meetings up until the 1960s. That all changed after JFK was murdered with the complicity of our government. People just stopped giving a shit after that.
we want to force Climate Change rules on you, and force coal plant shut downs; and force public-employee unions on taxpayers; and force your support for our idea of public education; and force extravagant, comprehensive health insurance on you; and force gun control laws on you; and force taxes on you to pay for an immense nanny state, and force you to buy a lot of stuff for the under-served, and force you to “spread the wealth around;” and we want what’s best for you (because you vote against your own best interests); and your compliance with all of this has to be enforced–and informed–somehow,……but we’re not authoritarians
You can’t seriously be comparing climate change, unions, health care, and public education, to how the CIA and Military/NSA operate? That is desperate reaching. This website only launched but the partisan trolls have already tried taking over.
david,
The point has eluded you. The left is already firmly established as authoritarian via those traits, yet somehow never stops futiley trying to persuade the neutral observer that police- and surveillance-state aren’t also the historical hallmarks of an overweight Big Gov’t.
Out of abject embarrassment at having the public see that, time and again, the progressive left never stops wanting indies to believe that the dark, totalitarian leftist underbelly they witnessed is strangely somehow what small-gov’t minded liberty and freedom promoting conservatives who wish to dismantle Big Gov’t (and its public financing) want.
I wonder, what functions can the government perform that you wouldn’t consider to be authoritarian? You’ve made the word “authoritarian” pretty much meaningless if you apply it to things like believing in taxes or infrastructure.
In short: Who does the progressive left think they’re kidding when they try to brush authoritarian Big Gov’t cooties onto innocent, independence and liberty-minded conservatives who don’t want Big Gov’t or its regs and mandates (and who don’t want to pay for it). Because everybody can already see how the former are authoritarian in other facets of their overbearing, imposing lives.
Get it? No. That was the message going over david’s Obama-voting head.
Ask your doctor if Drano is right for you.
I’m no doctor “coram nobis”, but my understanding is that Draino is simply intended to dissolve grease clogs in existing plumbing; there seems to be a more serious structural problem underlying this particular clog that merely treating of which will fail to solve.
Maybe the dastardly “progressive left” needs to stop providing public utility services to CONservative miscreants who insist on clogging up the pipes of reasonable public discourse.
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
Hey … SFB, why don’t you create your own incoherent blog and stop stealing space from Glenn Greenwald’s territory? You’ve been spewing the same incoherent bug-eyed gibberish for years now. And I can tell ya, it ain’t, “Aging Like Fine Wine.”
“Hey … SFB, why don’t you create your own incoherent blog and stop stealing space from Glenn Greenwald’s territory? You’ve been spewing the same incoherent bug-eyed gibberish for years now. And I can tell ya, it ain’t, ‘Aging Like Fine Wine.'”
Yeah “SFB”, have you no respect? Don’t you know that this is a place of worship?
Hey Babe, I worship the internet you surf on..
Will you marry me?
Your only recourse would be to make some Alters using the language in posts already submitted. Would you go to these lengths so as not to be wrong?
The Algorithm project.
If you had say the algorithm equivalent of a nuclear bomb would you use it to annihilate the SockPuppets? Or would you wait for the rest of the internet to do it?
Thought this would be up your street…
How can I game this?
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/gaming-israel-and-palestine#axzz39EBMG5Ky
Never Assume.
did you know Kitt used the word poppycock recently, so did coram nobis in reply..
Why when you’re sick is there always sweet corn?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arH3od_2xIg
Dan Froomkin was probably unaware until now that you worship him. How sweet.
Bzzzzzz… “Dan Froomkin was probably unaware…” Bzzzzz
Ah yes the tyranny of the majority…democracy in action…
“So if you’re the president, you fire everyone who lies. Starting with John Brennan.”
Actually, if Obama were to fire everyone who lied he would have started with James Clapper, who did not merely tell a common or garden lie but lied under oath to a congressional committee. The very fact that that act did not mere a firing suggests that Brennan will not be fired either.
A lot of eyes wide shut in this country, including Obama’s apparently. Wicked things taking place on U.S. soil as I type, but whatever it takes to keep America safe, it would seem, no matter the cost to some Americans. Witch hunts on U.S. streets, but mum’s the word… Some day it will be known as one of America’s greatest shames.
Obama is a globalist-run, Tavistock-esque, test tube president custom-ordered by dark occult in the candestine services. His father was the Hawaiian communist Frank Marshall Davis, and his maternal grandparents were CIA-front; their daughter was a Pacific-hemisphere Anthropology program graduate–hired by Tim Geithner’s dad–and worked in Indonesia during the height of the Suharto uprising. His ed records are sealed, and his first job out of college was for the globalist Henry Kissinger, working at BIC, a
firm that had been linked to economic intelligence gathering for the CIA.
Progressive leftist just, cult-like, said talk to the button on their bag with the ~O~ on it.
It always amazes me when monkeys demonstrate their typing abilities and unfettered access to computers. The Planet of the Apes is all too real.
You need serious, professional help. Please get it quickly.
Tell me that was mean to be a satire on some generic extreme conspiracy theorist rant yes?!
youtube.com/watch?v=UMUlWbO1rhk
youtube.com/watch?v=6jrrnkKmUzo
http://www.claremont.org/index.php?act=crbArticle&id=340
http://my.firedoglake.com/scottcreighton/2014/05/14/cia-front-usaid-gearing-up-in-ukraine-suharto-ii/
youtube.com/watch?v=UMUlWbO1rhk
youtube.com/watch?v=6jrrnkKmUzo
my.firedoglake.com/scottcreighton/2014/05/14/cia-front-usaid-gearing-up-in-ukraine-suharto-ii/
claremont.org/index.php?act=crbArticle&id=340
You’re right! You’re also a genius. I have heard the same from a friend of mine from Holland. Please read “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion”. In my younger days, I thought it must be a hoax as claimed, but finally I read it a couple months ago. It reads like a condensed version of the past couple hundred years worth of history.
What’s a “candistine?” Did you mean “Palestine?” That seems more in tune with your “ideas.” How do you figure all this shit out? You’re my hero, and the craziest troll out there, and that’s saying something. Don’t ever leave!
It’s a dropped consonant typo. Keep working on those word reconstruction skills; someday you might get average at it.
Try some decaf, la plaza!
The CIA did not searched gov. Feinstein computer, both the CIA and Feinstein work in cocert to cover things up.
The senator Feinstein gives mafia protection as in De Giacomo\ Giacoma + Matiasevich +Lanier + Faria.
The four Familie names has something to do with cocaine import at the Alameda Naval Air Station.
Which comes there with the cooperation of U.S. armed forces and CIA which does not stand for Cocaone Importing Agency, which it easily could stand for.
Unfortunately, Mr. Obama does not agree with your assessment:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/02/us/obama-expresses-confidence-in-cia-director.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpHeadline&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
This just underscores a point made below. Froomkin’s statement that Obama is no Cheney is exactly right — he is much, much worse than Cheney. The well-spoken Obama continues to do his con-man best to protect and empower the deeply anti-democratic, deeply authoritarian, deeply secretive Deep State in a way that no mere cudgel like Cheney could do.
Very good article Froomkin. But now that the CIA, that band of patriots have admitted their “lack of candour”, why flog a dead horse? Hasn’t this issue been investigated enough? I realy think, how can I put this?…it’s time to look forward and not backward. You don’t really want to criminalize minor policy differences do you? Let’s not let a trail of deceit, compounded upon by more deceit, tarnish their otherwise loyal service on behalf of …whoever the CIA works for, or whoever they report to.
Love the facetious fatuous-ness, JLocke; assuming a tongue firmly planted in cheek?
Thank you. Voting Democrat is like voting against a dry stick up the rump when you know you’re going to get it anyway. Voting Republican is like begging to lick the stick first. I was so sure that the worst Obama could do would be better than the best we might have hoped for from Bush, but now I can’t say whether I hated President Patsy more than I despise President Toad. It should have become clear to everyone during the 2008-2009 presidential “transition” that the banks were still in charge. Mr Obama has nice manners and reads a good speech, but he is about as liberal as the average CIA thug. It is pitiful, years later, to see and hear so many well-meaning neighbors of mine doing their best to believe in a political process (elections) that has no bearing on politics. No one will be seriously investigated, much less fired, over any of this, because the US public has the government it deserves. Now be a good capitalist and understand all that Washington stuff rightly belongs to folks who can pay for it. Never you mind, goldang it, we still have the freedom to watch the anchor-bimbo uncross her legs in HD.
Very good! So true!
Maybe our intel community is getting advice from former Stasi and KGB stars. When you think about it, our NSA and CIA are the Stasi and KGB on steroids. What would IKE or FDR say if they were alive today?
The high water mark of this nation was the day before LBJ took office; we’ve been in a slide ever since. I’ve estimated I’ll be dead in another 25 years. I’m glad I won’t be around after the mid point of this century to see us in ruin and bowing to dictator in the Asia Pacific Rim. It was a good 200-year ride though, we almost made it.
I can however enjoy living in the nostalgia of what we aspired to be. As a little boy I saw a man step moon — keeping the promise JFK made at the beginning of his presidency. Now I see our rads crumbling and a pithy of space program. We can afford a trillion dollars in tax cuts for the richest individuals and corporations in the world but our bridges crumbling.
The neocon (leftist Republican) Bush hired former Soviet General Yevgeni Primakov:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/15/73576/-Soviet-America-Bush-Hires-2-Former-KGB-Chiefs
Markus Wolf was long rumored to have been a paid consultant on the creation of DHS.
Keep that tax money flowing.
Small town Reporter and la plaza,
Absent a sea change, it’s pretty much game over, it would seem. I was optimistic after the Snowden leaks a year ago, but what’s transpiring on U.S. soil continues unabated. Those who are being victimized are in need of relief, but there’s none in sight. Please visit http://FightGangStalking.com for a little truth. I never imagined that I’d see this in the U.S. How very naive (and ignorant) I was.
Lying is a tool for corruption. Corruption is the biggest problem in the world. It lurks behind everything bad.
Obama needs to be locked up with Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld. Brennan should room in a cell right next to them.
I appreciate your use of the word LIE! I wish the mainstream media had the guts to use the word LIE. To this day they refer to Bush/Cheney as having “mislead” “fabricated” or giving a “false statements” about this and that regarding the Iraq war. They also paint them as having false intelligence about WMDs. Awww they just got it wrong… NO they did not just get it wrong or “mislead” the public… them muthaf**kas LIED!
You mutts are always in your predicaments because you never have enough social engineering, never have enough central planning, never have enough socialism, never have enough collectivism.
How strange. Relevance to article: none. Relevance to anything at all: none.
I think laplaza gained unauthorized access to his institution’s network. Or they lobotomized the wrong part of his brain. But whatever the cause, I hope his posts here constitute the practical limits of his delusions.
The Bolsheviks ride again. Andrei Sakharov and Yelena Bonner knew something of your leftism.
Look what those collectivist mutts did to my libertarian, liberty-lovin’ shoes! Why I oughta . . . .
MaRTar:
Good point, unless the stakes are raised, nothing will change. Regular People (non-war-mongering psychopaths) need to start running for local legislature, even congress, and change things from within.
President’s would have to fire themselves because that is all they do every God forsaken day!
Good article ruined by the hat tip to Obama at the end. Astounding how deeply the false GOP/Dem dichotomy is embedded into the culture than even a guy like Froomkin can have a career pointing out the continuity for the two and still feels obliged to “pick a side”. Cheney = Evil…. Obama = not as bad guy who just needs to do the right thing and fire the liars around him. Grow up Dan.
Jay, Well said!! What Dan doesn’t understand is that Obama works for Brennan.
Good One! Heh, heh.
Yes, the “But he’s no Cheney” threw me for a loop. No only is Obama more perniciously dedicated to lying than Cheney was, but Obama has done vastly more damage than Cheney ever did — precisely by throwing the full weight of an “opposition” presidency behind legitimizing Cheney’s criminality with his failure to prosecute any of it.
Absolutely!
Quite right. Obama has done as much or more damage to civil liberties by simply posing as a “leftist” while enthusiastically advancing and covering up the policies of the former administration. What you would call a Trojan Horse. Next offering from our overseers? Why, Hilary Clinton of course!
john, you appear a little confused about the hard-leftist progressive president you elected who is promoting immigration reform, and gun control (“We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar,” he said to Sarah Brady (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/over-a-barrel-meet-white-house-gun-policy-adviser-steve-croley/2011/04/04/AFt9EKND_story.html)); and who imposed socialist Health Care Insurance mandates and new taxes in lieu of them for the edict’s dissidents; and who signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act; and who said “spread the wealth around!” (youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM).
You must be terribly embarrassed whenever the progressive left’s historical penchant for authoritarianism is inconveniently exposed to the public. You can no longer avoid that Democrats–and the progressives who enable them–are authoritarian police-state and globalist to their cores. As history has shown that all leftist movements and regimes are.
God, you are a dim soul.
Authoritarianism is championed by the right wing, by corporations… who, as “people”, really don’t like people… but I digress….
Shorter: power loves power. Left, Right, Up and Down.
Now, how’s about some torture?
Imagine being locked in a cell and 24/7 you had to listen to a monologue by la plaza? Coming in a staccato style without a pause? I wouldn’t last long I’d be saying I shot both Kennedy’s, buried Hoffa, and fixed the Black Sox World Series.
Authoritarianism—mandates, regs, overeaching laws, police state, surveillance state—are anethema to the libertarian right.
But the progressive left is famously authoritarian, and always wants totalitarian control of others’ lives, and is frustrated by legislative gridlock (they want laws passed!) and it’s frustrated by conservative objections to all sorts of restrictive and costly legislation.
The progressive left is notorious for police- and surveillance state: history’s USSR, and its East Bloc Warsaw Pact satellite states Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia. Albania. North Korea. PRC. Cuba. Vietnam. Democratic Kampuchea.
Every single regime you noted has nothing to do with “progressive” anything.
This is boiling down to semantics; a definition of authoritarianism. Libertarianism is a false construct with no exemplars in history, save godforsaken patches in Africa.
Social systems, like nature, abhor a vacuum.
Power asserts itself.
Libertarians permit no check on power. The logical outcome of such a poorly conceived system has been glimpsed before: the Robber Baron era.
Monopolistic control of entire regions and economies.
Necessity, the mother of invention, gave rise to oversight, regulation, collective bargaining as a check on unethical, destructive power.
Libertarianism is utopian fantasy.
Comrade, you’re insights are keen, but please, go easy! Your game is already starting to attract notice, and sooner or later the Libertarians and their Masters will figure it out completely. You know what I mean! So, a message from Central: The laundry is ready; no more Borax in the rinse cycle. The cat still vomits small worms. Carry on!
Can someone explain why he’s not in jail?
Who jails the jailer?
“Who jails the jailer?”
Precisely. They’ve already neutered or killed most of the watchdogs.
And we have as a society turned our collective heads away from solving, or even recognizing there is a problem, thus – amusing ourselves to death.
As Bush said after 9/11: “Just go shopping.”
And now we hide behind drones to apply justice.
Props to Roger Waters…
“Who jails the jailer?”
Precisely. They’ve already neutered or killed most of the watchdogs.
And we have as a society turned our collective heads away from solving, or even recognizing there is a problem, thus – amusing ourselves to death.
As Bush said after 9/11: “Just go shopping.”
Props to Roger Waters…
And with the Israel “situation” we’re reminded by Roger Waters of “The Bravery of Being Out of Range.”
And now we hide behind drones and missiles to apply justice.
Apologies for the dual posts – didn’t realize multiple links were consistently enabled.
There’s also the black sites. Stare Kiejkuti in Poland, and God knows where else.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/07/rendition-poland
So when is the revolution happening? Or are social liberals too afraid to collectively take up arms. I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: Short of a massive organized hacking campaign to get these real news stories and government shortcomings to all Americans, there would have to be some sort of potentially violent rebellion that is transparent to restore our democracy. My apologies if this comes across as fanatical or straight out of the “right – wing” playbook, it is not my intent – just my analysis.
The “right wing” only go about their modest lives, defend themselves where absolutely necessary, rely on info-war, promote and educate on liberty and individual rights.
What you’re talking about is the fanatical progressive left, which has a violent provenance which includes the Symbionese Liberation Army, Weather Underground, Brigate Rosse, Shining Path, MRTA, UNITA, MPLA, Bolshevism, CPC, Khmer Rouge….
Yeah, shove it, Nazi. I suppose those are all leftists marching around with their open-carry AR-15s and what not. THEY ARE TOO ASSAULT RIFLES, NYAH NYAH!!!
Open carry means it’s not the contraband the authoritarian progressive left wants to propagandize.
Meet Penn and Teller: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gun+control+penn+and+teller
Inconveniently for you, Nazis were sozialisten–it was on the doorbell there to attract progressives. Tee-partei types don’t swing to “Sozialisten.” Progressives did, including Margaret Sanger.
That’s a common myth on the right these days. Some of the original Nazis did have socialistic aspirations, notably the Strasser Brothers, who were purged from the party by Hitler. One was murdered. The other escaped and survived the war.
On the day after the International Labor Day Celebration in 1934, Hitler eliminated all trade unions and incorporated all of them into the Reich’s Labor Organization.
Finally, the very first inmates in the model concentration camp, established at Dachau, were Socialists, Social Democrats, Communists and other political prisoners. The idea was to convert them to Nazism or retain them in the camps. Most of these first inmates were released back into society after serving between 12 and 18 months. Most did not cause any further trouble for the Nazis and many served in the military during the war.
The use of the term “Socialist” in National Socialism was a propaganda ploy and you have been sucked in by it more than 80 years after the fact.
The Soviets and the Poles did too (that Solidarno?? kerfuffle later on). The USSR maintained that under socialism there is no need for trade unions.
Socialists are notorious for internecine rivalries that claim others are not socialist enough. The Vietnamese vs. Democratic Kampuchea. USSR didn’t like China’s practice of socialism. Shining Path’s Marxism and Anto-revisionism didn’t agree with Túpac Amaru’s Maoism, and they engaged in violent clashes inside Peru.
Use of the term “Socialist” in National Socialism let progressive leftists know where to show up for Nazi functions. Conservatives avoid anything written “Socialist” like the plague.
Then as now with ~O~, chastened progressives tried to paint a leftist leader as the other side’s doing. You see history’s left replaying the same belated distancing maneuvers from one generation to the next as progressivism’s ugly authoritarian side is repeatedly exposed.
Accordingly you’d doubtless hope more than 80 years after the fact that progressive history also has Barack Obama as the darling of the conservative right wing, and that a Democratic Party they swooned to was a propaganda ploy.
We’ll write Solidarnosc without the Unicode.
You already see that leftists on these pages insist ~O~ is really a rightie. Where have we seen that behavior before? The more things change….
Brad, when do progressives begin honestly owning up to leftism and its liabilities?
Not a single thing you have said above changes or otherwise negates the history that I provided. The Nazis were not Socialists. End of story.
I’m no fan of Obama. He is a war criminal.
You are an idiot, stuck in your right wing talking points and are not qualified to discuss these issues.
You seemed almost reasonable until you started with the ‘Nazis were socialists’ trope.
That’s just so many kinds of false.
Movement swag with “Nationalsozialismus” on it is designed to attract socialists, Brad–and did. Progressives are the ones who rang that doorbell–including Margaret Sanger.
It must pain you to have to deal with that, but you need to approach it honestly. And that means understanding and finally admitting to yourself that conservatives don’t show up for “Socialist” functions, and don’t like “Sozialisten” printed on their napkins–it’s revolting to them.
The ones who stuck it out did like “Sozialisten” printed on their stuff, you moron.
Your the kind of intellect that takes almost a month to figure out nobody but you sees your Livefyre posts when Salon toys around with your user account.
UNITA? Jonas Savimbi’s UNITA in Angola? That UNITA? Hardly leftist, at least once it was accepting support from the US, the US conservative movement — Reagan in particular — and apartheid-era South Africa.
Rather big net you’ve thrown with all those abbreviations. Why don’t you throw in the MTA and BNSF while you’re at it? Or tell Fox & Friends to get better scriptwriters.
NYPD, SEIU (huffingtonpost.com/deborah-burger/seius-latest-disgrace_b_96399.html), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNITA#mediaviewer/File:Unitaprop.jpg
Leftists. Always for it before they’re against it.
You would have had to look up SLA if it wasn’t spelled out for you.
Slimy Loquacious Algorithm?
My apologies if this comes across as fanatical or straight out of the “right – wing”….
A leftist offers “apologies if this comes across as” progressive cooties he’s trying to pin on the right. What’s new.
F- leftists actually want to do what they’ll dishonestly have you believe the right does, then still don’t own up to the behavior as progressive.
Wasn’t he merely saying “sorry if [criticism of the left for inaction, and advocating revolution] comes across as right-wing?”
You’re apparently so wrapped up in defending the right that you don’t even know what you’re responding to.
MaRTar is attempting to impart an offhanded connection of violence with “right – wing” [sic] with that rhetoric. You’re being distracted by his deployment of that in the service of a subsequent point of the writer’s.
You are a freakin’ cornucopia of nonsense.
To lie, officially, can be an art. To our studies of Orwell, Kafka, and Philip K. Dick, we must also summon Niccolò Machiavelli to the witness stand, to testify as to this administration’s activity.
It’s somewhat unnerving to recognize how little humanity has changed over the past 500 years since that was written. Or indeed just how thin the veneer of “civilization” can be over some people’s essentially barbarous natures.
“Moral turpitude is a legal concept in the United States and some other countries that refers to “conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals.”[1] This term appears in U.S. immigration law beginning in the 19th century’” source: Wikipedia
In remarks made during a White House briefing on Friday, President Obama summarized the history of CIA abusive practices in the wake of the 9/11 attacks by asking people to remember “how afraid people” were at the time after he acknowledged plainly, “We tortured some folks.”
President Obama’s statement makes him guilty of moral turpitude; therefore, impeachable.
Well, Machiavelli is nothing compared to “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion”. Protocols reads like a condensed history of the last few hundred years. Hoax? Not a bit!
Career politicians and Intelligence operatives lie? Really? Stop the presses!
C’mon Dan, enough with the trite pablum; you are better than this. Maybe if you speak to Glenn real nicely, he will let you take a peek at his treasure trove of Snowden docs. There must be at least one newsworthy story in the remaining ninety-nine percent of unpublished documents.
“enough with the trite pablum”
Wilhelmina – haven’t you realized yet that a) calling public officials on lying is a public service each and every time it occurs; and b) that minimizing it to ” trite pablum” is a part of the problem, not a part of the solution; and c) killing the messenger is the weakest form of argument?
“Ad hominem is an argument of the weak and insecure.”
– Princess Maleiha Bajunaid Candao
There is a flaw in the author’s logic, and we saw it on display during the Watergate scandal. The author is assuming that the CIA Director and DNI acted on their own when they lied to the public and to Congress. I would argue that it is more than possible that President Obama or one of his senior aides orchestrated the lies from the Executive Office. If he were to fire the CIA Director and the DNI, President Obama would run the risk that either might assert that they were instructed to obfuscate or lie by an aide to the President or by the President himself. If that were to occur, President Obama would run the risk of sharing the same fate as President Nixon, who was undone by some of his aides confessing that they had committed criminal acts at the direction of the President. President George Bush avoided a similar fate when his aides elected to protect him (and their reputations) by lying to Congress and the public about their actions, and these lies have continued to this day.
Better to write the facts that you can prove, rather than create doubt without the factual merit.
No no no… Cheney is an evil liar. Obama is a well-intentioned individual tragically surrounded by the wrong people. This truth needs no evidence.
I think it is a mistake to think that the president has so much control over the intelligence community.
@ ArizonaBumblebee:
There does seem to be some confusion on the part of American citizens regarding the hierarchy of the Intelligence Community of the United States of America. In fact, all seventeen agencies have, at the top of their respective Chain of Command – the Executive Branch of the United States Government.
Here is a link which clearly explains each agency’s function in that Chain of Command.
See: “Office of the Director of National Intelligence”
http://www.dni.gov/index.php
I believe that Mr. Froomkin is well aware of this fact and that his comments are merely ironic in nature.
“So what’s in the Torture Report? Well, I can’t quote from it, because the intelligence community and the White House have done such a good job of delaying its public release”
Very curious way of phrasing this… am I wrong to read this as saying that you actually have seen a version of the report (redacted or not), but are not publishing anything from it until the Senate officially releases it?
Maybe you’re waiting to see what gets redacted, or are waiting to see if the CIA gets caught out telling more lies, but if you do have it, I guess we’d chalk that up to another massive scoop that the Intercept is sitting on.
I think he just means no one has it yet. It would be great if the full report gets leaked, and we get to analyze what’s been redacted and why.
It’s a pretty ridiculous concept to begin with. They can very simply just take the actual reports from the people whom they’ve been torturing. That would obviously be allot more accurate and informative than something a group of genocidal compulsive liars hand over to us at a specific time after tampering with for years.
Even if the report has any true information in it, they have so much technology and psyop research that it will be rendered beneficial to them and bad for us to view.
That’s not at all what he wrote though; it’s pretty easy to say “I can’t quote from the report because I haven’t seen it”, but instead he veers into a general statement which explains far better why he won’t quote from it, not that he can’t.
The paragraph which follows it a typical piece from a journalist who won’t go on the record with a bunch of stuff he is pretty confident is accurate but has (in his mind) good reasons for not yet publishing.
My money’s on Froomkin holding a version of the report.
White House Accidentally Leaks Torture Report Talking Points to AP
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/1/headlines/white_house_accidentally_leaks_torture_report_talking_points_to_ap
Even if they add their faces to Mount Rushmore, none will remember them in a thousand years or so…
Why should President Obama fire Clapper or Brennan for lying when he does it himself?
He fired Sebilius for the healthcare.gov problems (which were the problems of contractors) and he fired Shinseki for unscrupulous problems of the people that worked for him at the VA, but he has not shown any willingness to fire Brennan or Clapper, who both deserve to be fired for something that they themselves did that was totally unethical.
Probably afraid of them, among other reasons.
One of the primary reasons that Kennedy was taken out was his threat to “tear the CIA into a thousand pieces” after publicly taking blame for their idiotic Bay of Pigs Venture. Kennedy fired Alan Dulles, General Charles Cabell and Richard Bissell, the Director, Deputy Director and top spook, which set off a wave of resentment in the “intelligence” community.
General Charles Cabell’s brother was the mayor of Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963. Alan Dulles played a dominant role on the Warren Commission and ensured that all evidence pointing to CIA involvement was suppressed..
From the article:
Brennan told NBC’s Andrea Mitchell in March. “We wouldn’t do that. I mean, that’s just beyond the, you know, the scope of reason in terms of what we do.”
You had to know it was a lie when Brennan said spying on people who were perceived as a threat was “beyond the scope of reason in terms of what we do.” That’s exactly what the CIA does, at home and abroad.
Does the Intercept have someone up on Capitol Hill asking members of the intelligence committees what they plan to do about? The lack of action must mean Congress is complicit or they’ve been blackmailed to shut up. The defense corporations could be complicit too. They sell these agencies all they Spy widgets they need and make Congress dependent on them for campaign contributions. If you like your cushy job as an elected official, you just sit down to a nice cup of “shut the fuck up” and forget about it.
so good, I had to repeat it:
“you just sit down to a nice cup of “shut the fuck up”
Speak to the Intercept? From Washington? Only with the greatest reluctance, I am sure.
Not likely to happen, of course. He would have to fire himself too. Of course, the House Rethugs are try their damndest to figure out how to fire Obama, but they’re too incompetent to go about it in a logical manner that might work. But then, Congress should also be fired and there’s no one who can do that but We the People and too many are not intelligent and/or informed well enough to figure that out. Incompetence all around.
One need only go over to the Salon Website to see the proof of your statement in regard to “the People” not being well enough informed to figure it out. My own efforts to inform the Faux Liberals of the Joan Walsh School (TM) that infest every Salon Thread have now resulted in a third suspension.
Likewise, other purveyors of truth have also been gradually disappeared from the Salon Threads. The result has been that the whole site has become a full time propaganda arm for the Democratic Party and Clinton Incorporated.
The sad thing is that they don’t even tell the person that has been suppressed that their comments have been rendered invisible in the threads to all but themselves. This is a particularly pernicious form of thought suppression and censorship because the writer does not necessarily notice that he/she has been suppressed until such time as the dearth of responses are first observed.
I’m giving up on Salon. After more than 4000 pages of contributions to their site, I had expected better. Since, the Intercept seems to finally be up and running with some consistency, how can I attach an icon to my screenname, become a regular member and establish an archive? Are these functions available?
No, those functions aren’t available with this current comment set up. It has taken longer than I, and I suppose many others, had hoped or expected to get past this remedial comment setup, but while, as you said, there is “some consistency” now, The Intercept is not at all truly “up and running” as yet. So eventually, I’m almost positive, those systems will be available when The Intercept finally does pull it all together.
Have you thought about requesting Salon Media give your membership money back after the hi-jinx they played with your LiveFyre acct?
They eliminated the subscriber function at the same time that they put in Livefyre, which was the worst set of “improvements” that they implemented over so many years.
I suspect that this was done so that they could begin removing those that didn’t go along with the official party line over there, which is that Obama is a great guy who has done nothing wrong and that we should now coronate War Criminal Hillary as his successor.
theguardian.com/environment/2010/mar/15/green-consumers-more-likely-steal
telegraph.co.uk/earth/7458105/Liars-cheats-thieves-the-terrible-truth-about-the-mean-greens.html
This is what happens when every faction in government becomes venal, lawless, and drunk with power. Sooner or later they are going to turn on one another. A tiny bit of a sliver lining, I guess, because that is how secrets are exposed.
silver. pffft.
calling Dr. Freud….
“sliver” ….. hmm… yes.
a sliver of a lining.
of a fraction of a portion
of a morsel
of truth
There’s no such thing as bad government. Government is always good, and more government is better.
Your cartoon version of liberals or leftists or whatever is tiresome. Why don’t you go fuck yourself.
U R simply 2 funny. U always make me laugh.
John Brennan’s next job should be in a orange jump suit earning pennies and hour.
But we all know that this will never happen. Brennan is the right hand of the Commander and Chief of death, destruction and torture. And has been for a long time. This is the work of evil, plain and simple. And good never comes from evil only more evil.
Every since we had a Grade B actor elected to serve as President, did anyone else notice that all these covert/special ops “intelligence” honchos have been involved in every single subsequent administration?
Only the bozo at the top has been replaced ….when you get a former CIA chief elected to commander-in-chief after that + “musical chairs” between CIA, Pentagon, White House – we no longer have civilian and citizen control of the government especially when Americans are uninformed or purposefully lied to . . .
When Brennan says “it’s beyond the scope of reason”, or Clapper says he didn’t “unwittingly” lie to Congress and the American people – how do they get away with apologizing in private or in public????
These are crimes …. and who decides what news and information is FIT TO PRINT?
Meanwhile, the same covert/special ops tactics, personnel and subterfuges from Iran-Contra are doing the dirty wars and lies all over the world and now controlling the government making no secrets about it.
When I see Oliver North appearing on Fox TV, or Dick Cheney all over the media – now not operating in the shadow ops but IN THE SPOTLIGHT – they and all their supporting cast invite and ask for exposure – prosecute them with no chance of a pardon – justice may get delayed but it cannot be denied.
We The People need to intercept these misguided lethal liars, render them inoperative, and punish them to the fullest extent of the law.
Obama, with no prior executive experience, is surrounded by “the old guard” and their second-generation operatives.
Ur absolutely right! (I mean, correct)! Oliver north, (Oh Gawd, I have to wash my mouth out and clean my hands after saying (typing) such evil words and go into a religious cleansing for a month) got off his crimes because an evil judge said he could never recieve a fair trial. O my gawd! Treason and the slime puking thing got off because of an alledged inability to get a fair trial. Have you ever heard of ANYONE getting a fair trial in this day and age? but Treason? Clear treason! He should, with a whole lot of others, be given a fair trial at military court and shot! the judge too.
Sorry Dan not David.
David,
The Obama remark distracts unnecessarily from your thesis. The fact that Obama decided to “look forward” and let the bastards off is his epitaph. He failed his nation in its our of greatest need.
Yes, it marked his entry into the membership of the elite, above the law, union of criminals against freedom and justice. Near everything he has done since has served to cement and enhance his status in that corrupt group.
This entire issue is sleight of hand. Get everyone irate about the lies instead of the torture.
Spying on congress is no outrage , how about spying on this 74 year old NOBODY.If they have the resources to do that , then they can do anything.Since my last letter to the N.S.A. inspector general , the attacks are several a day , every day. John Bertotto
I can certainly understand the rationale for lying to Congress in a public hearing. But the Executive has a constitutional duty to deal honestly with Congress during closed door sessions. If Congress then passes that information to the public, they can be tried and convicted of communicating national security secrets to the enemy. But they shouldn’t be presumed guilty and denied that information in the first place. Presumptive guilt applies only to common citizens.
Then you have named yourself well. Instead of outright lying, one can say that a question must not be answered for national security reasons. Of course, that might or might not turn out to be a lie, but at least it has the chance of being the truth.
Sulzer, BM demonstrates truth is truth by his opposition to it – by intention.
>”BM”
I thought you meant Bowel Movement … and I wasn’t far off the mark :)
#2
There may be such a thing as objective truth, but humans cannot perceive it. Since there is no truth (from a human perspective), it must be concluded that everything is a lie. The only question then becomes which lie produces the best outcome.
There is truth, and then there is governance, Duce. See, e.g., my citations of Machiavelli elsewhere in this thread. Difference is, today, that our leaders seem to have lost the art of dissemblance, and instead have chosen crass mendacity. Worse, yet, is that they keep getting caught and still insist on the same story. It insults the hearers abominably.
The Prince abides at
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1232/1232-h/1232-h.htm
That may be factual, BM, but when a standard exists against which to measure truth wrt politics and law, truth *can* be ascertained and perceived. That’s the reason the Elites and their oligarchs hate the constitution Americans possess, and have effectively eliminated its power and purpose to be held as that standard by them, while simultaneously insisting they do.
So in that, you are are definitely on the wrong side of the scale.
But if you get enough people on the wrong side of the scale, it becomes the right side of the scale. What was once false becomes true via the process of general consensus.
Leaders must take a longer term view – what is true at any given moment is less important than what will become true. In other words, they choose which side of the scale to load. So you can see from this perspective, it is really a bit simplistic to speak in terms of lies and truth. You will generally find that senior officials just don’t think in those terms.
“…our leaders seem to have lost the art of dissemblance, and instead have chosen crass mendacity.”
The art of dissemblance is only applicable when plausible deniability is deemed a necessary safeguard against potential exposure.
A repetition of the same lie is deemed to be more appropriate when the target audience has been conditioned to believe that truth is merely the product of majority consensus… hence the need of the hive to attack those who harbor dissenting opinions.
To keep on topic: pig shit! The difference between true and false can be determined in many human situations, and they include the ones we are dealing with here.
Meanwhile, those humans on the planet that recognize there are sub-human scum who would even lower themselves to the grave of such monsters as Benito Mussolini to use as a vehicle to either satirically support their viewpoints on current events, or are really in awe of such monsters, now have a duty to do the same thing as those human beings who recognized the scourge of THE REAL BENITO MUSSOLINI.. and either verbally or in reality..destroy these pig sucking, chromosomally aberrant war criminal loving monsters. PERIOD The choice is yours whether or not you want little voices using the horrors of Benito Mussolinis crimes against humanity, to support todays commentary of current events. Comprende?
Beware of battling with monsters, lest you become a monster (h/t Nietzsche).
Proof of conspiracy requires specific types of evidence, i.e.,:
(a) there must be secret meetings of the participants and efforts made to conceal joint actions,
(b) those meetings must jointly agree to take a course of action,
(c) and this action must be illegal.
–Anthony C. Sutton in The Order of the Skull and Bones
There are three possibilities concerning the successful man: a) The majority give way to the idolisation of success. b) when the wounds of guilt are healed, then success is simply identified with good. This attitude is genuine and pardonable only in a state of intoxication. c) the continuance of success is then assured by the proposition that only good is successful. — Dietrich Bonhoeffer on the attitudes of the multitudes toward leadership, particularly on Adolf Shickelgrüber shortly after the invasion of France
How could I say it better?
Thank you. In general, I find myself to be in complete agreement with US government policies, so I selected my screen persona accordingly.
That sounds nice in theory, but unfortunately is completely impractical. People become suspicious when their government refuses to answer any questions. Conspiracy theories start proliferating and people become worried for no good reason. So the best policy is to tell people what they want to hear. It may be a lie, but they will thank you for it.
So true and so pitiful.
Indeed, Duce, you may very well have insight on what may constitute a corporate state, and certainly people will hear what they want to hear, which is what makes Fox News a double success as propaganda and as a commercial enterprise.
I also commend Niccolò Machiavelli’s The Prince as a more timeless treatise on governance. It still rings true.
The Italian principalities had similar cultures and therefore were probably willing to exchange one leader for another. This is more problematic when you try to impose a foreign culture – the native population tends to reject it more vigorously. The US may have been following Machiavelli’s playbook in Iraq, but it didn’t work.
You give them too much credit. There was no “playbook.” Well, there was, but they threw it out the window because they didn’t like who wrote it. Then they tried to wing it, and predictably that failed miserably.
Saddam was probably a better disciple of Macchiavelli.
It would be just like you to want to invoke FOX in that context rather than MSNBC, the latter of which actually accepted Stimulus-paid advertising: .thenewamerican.com/usnews/congress/item/12698-congress-probes-obama-green-stimulus-funds-for-msnbc
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/06/05/is-msnbc-the-place-for-opinion/
As Machiavelli uses as examples, the Italian states of his day varied between republics (e.g., Venice), principalities (including those of families like the de’ Medici, Sforzas or Farneses), ecclesiastical states (e.g., the Papal states) and larger kingdoms like Naples. He also drew on European history elsewhere, from the Swiss cantons of his day back through Roman and Greek times. All this comes up repeatedly in The Prince and demonstrates that governance changes only slowly. After all, if the United States is founded on Roman notions of governance (see, e.g., the Federalist papers) you can see where it leads.
Civitas Romanus Sum.
so says a sociologically aberrant scum that couldn’t recognize why IT’S female container rejected it at birth in every way it could in recognition it had spawned a ebola level contaminate on the planet.
ps..hey benito, ..remember this result of your idol’s demise? Why was that, hmmm?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Mussolini_e_Petacci_a_Piazzale_Loreto%2C_1945.jpg/330px-Mussolini_e_Petacci_a_Piazzale_Loreto%2C_1945.jpg
In closing, I have only one thought. Every single US soldier who fought with every ounce of their soul across Italy to put a bullet in Mussolini’s head, would now drag you from where ever you exist and do everything in their power to rid you from this planet.
Evil tempts you to kill it – but that only causes evil to grow, since killing always leads to more killing. If everyone concentrated on simply doing good, evil would wither away.
Unconstitutional?
The constitution has no meaning.
Presidents declare war.
Corporations are people.
Currency comes from a private bank.
The supreme court decides what the constitution says.
None of these things is in the constitution. It is a meaningless document.
When and from whom comes the request to put the CIA (also NSA …) on the U.N. list of international terror organisations?
Wait, I’m confused. So is the Panetta Review the same thing as the “Torture Report”, as written in this article?
The review is apparently included in the report but is not the whole report.
I read it that the Panetta Review was an internal CIA report. The Senate report is a obviously a Senate report; one of the several issues that transpired is that the Senate report covers certain stuff that the Panetta review uncovered, and the CIA in rebutting the Senate basically refuted findings contained in its own report. And Feinstein’s staffers apparently figured that out.
I guess if the CIA had just let the Senate committee meet in, say, Monaco, instead of its own headquarters, then it wold have been OK. After all, everyone knows that the CIA can do anything it wants overseas, but cannot conduct intelligence operations within the US.
Seriously, how can Brennan think that it is OK for him to stay in his job for a second without creating a constitutional crises? Oh wait, that crises came and went long ago; we no longer live by that constitution.
>”But he’s no Cheney”
That don’t recommend him much, Dan.
*if honesty is the best policy … I’ve decidered to classify the rest of my comment.
When I read that line, I thought – …but he’s trying hard to be.
I’m sure they are just lying to protect their country.
:P
Of course. They are all honorable men.
“History will assuredly record that President Obama lied about a number of things, particularly as he carried water for the intelligence community and the military. But he’s no Cheney”
I hate to believe the Intercept would, for one minute, carry water for Obama, but here it is, in the preceding quote. If Obama’s no Cheney, its only because people could see through Cheney’s evil, and worked hard to bring his crimes to light; whereas Cheney concealed his murders, Obama has legalized his, such as the ‘kill list tuesday’ meetings (with Brennan no less.)
It would appear that, because Obama can actually speak English without ‘slaughtering’ (imagine Dr Strangelove pronouncing that word) the language, has perfected his rhetoric (lies), IS BLACK (better read The Black Agenda Report on Obama’s mass murder accountability, they don’t pussyfoot around) Froomkin gives him a pass.
Probably if there were ever any flat out honest material (recalling Diane Feinstein never met a 4th amendment violation she didn’t like until it was the CIA spying on her) came out of DC, the press corp could be expected to behave like fainting goats. In turn, if the press corp were ever to give the straight scoop to the American people, the people could be expected to react like fainting goats. I’m in no swoon at this patent softening of the narrative (litany of criminal behaviors) in regards to Obama. One VERY BAD conclusion.
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/08/22/demons-anonymous/
^ The more accurate portrayal, it would appear, can only be found in satire
Cheney planned and executed the invasion of Iraq and set up a global network of torture cells, which by any measure is in a different league to Obama’s crimes. Obama’s “kill list” has been covered by The Intercept here.
America also killed 40 million civilians by carpet bombing in WW2 and then had the temerity to
prosecute others for war crimes.
America is based on terrorist fundamentals. An aggressor defines the rules of engagement.
I see you prefer the ‘lesser of evils’ philosophy, in which case your choice is evil. Here is my Cheney satire, just to balance things ;)
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/09/dick-cheneys-lucid-dream/
One could argue, as a devil’s advocate, at least Cheney has some sense of shame in that he attempted to conceal his extra-judicial killings …. where Obama is a shameless killer who set out to legalize his murders.
Excellent synopsis Mr. Froomkin.
Glad to see this:
{“Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel with the American Civil Liberties Union, criticized the CIA announcement, saying that “an apology isn’t enough.”
“The Justice Department must refer the (CIA) inspector general’s report to a federal prosecutor for a full investigation into any crimes by CIA personnel or contractors,” said Anders.”}
None of the three branches of the US Government are in any way concerned about preserving a Republic of, for, and by the people. They are representing the interests of the International Central Bankers and line their own pockets with proceeds of endless wars and conflicts. Until that control is removed, there will be no lasting justice for the people of the United States or, for that matter, any of the Crown Colonies.
Just lies, upon lies, to cover-up more lies of secret iniquity and more state sponsored terror in the form of false-flag operations, conflicts, and wars. The road to hell on Earth.
Great article. Yes, these folks need to be held accountable; they’re supposed to be serving us. But I think they’ve forgotten that.
Kevin Ryan’s recent article about Tenet’s ‘failures’ (read ‘facilitation’) in the years preceding 9/11/01:
‘As Deputy Director for the CIA, in 1996, Tenet had worked to install one of his closest friends and confidants, John Brennan, as CIA station chief in Saudi Arabia. Brennan is now the DCI but, in his previous role, Brennan often communicated directly with Tenet, avoiding the usual chain of command. ‘
Worth a read:
http://digwithin.net/2014/07/27/george-tenet/
mmmmm…lying, how far does it go?
“The CIA gets what it wants.” – POTUS
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/05/06/remote-control
So, should George Tenet give back his Medal of Freedom?
Well, the question is, if Brennan works for the President, did he lie to him? Lying to Congress? Well, you can also check Tim Geithner’s testimony to Congress, but to his boss?
Now, if the President is willing to put up with that mendacity, it’s bad enough; question is, did he suffer that to his face? by his underlings?
-The key phrase being ‘…if Brennan works for the president…’
Has a CIA head been fired since Dulles?
Yes: Richard Helms, fired by Nixon in 1973 for disloyalty and other stuff. The departure of William Casey in 1987 during Iran-Contra may also have been involuntary, as was John Deutch’s departure in 1996 and Porter Goss in 2005.
Perhaps the apology’s yet even another CIA slight-of-hand distraction, Dan.
Delaying the torture report a bit more while the words “war crimes” are already on everyone’s lips…?
In this picture Brennan almost appears to be saying, “Look, there’s nothing up my sleeves…”
as much as i kind of like ‘slight of hand’ (tiny, useless hands ?), it would be sleight…
much like ‘moot point’, where many use ‘mute point’, which kind of makes sense…
oh, and brennan is scum, regardless of the lying or not; besides The They ™ have essentially re-defined ‘lying’ to where it only has meaning used against the 99%, as per usual, our 1% puppetmasters are unrestrained by any so-called ‘laws’ or ‘morality’…
I could claim my homophonia was showing, again, but I’d truly never noted the olde english difference. Your time and effort to educate me in a humorous manner that also made me think of a Kristin Wigg SNL skit – is greatly appreciated.
No argument on the 1% taker (wealthfare?) lords at the top – and their “hired muscle….”
I agree completely, Start in the government and then move to the banks. Until somebody is held accountable somewhere America will continue to decline.
This is not new, the lack of accountability in the past US administrations (stretching back to Bush senior – and in lockstep with governments in Britain, Australia etc) has been as breathtaking as their mendacity. How anyone can have any faith left in the institutions of government and ‘Justice’ is a testament to the how low the populations of the world have sunk in their apathy. The iniquities are now so pervasive that the only reasonable solution is unreasonable: revolution.
The attempt to make credible distinctions between Obama and Bush/Cheney are pathetic. Obama is CIA ; Bush is CIA, and both parties are full supporters of every war and of the corporations that are writing the laws that matter and are enforced . Prove to me conclusively that Obama was in regular attendance when he was supposed to be in College. Who Did Obama”s Father and step-father work for? Who did his mother and Grandmother work for?
Look Dan, I really don’t understand what your problem is. Brennan said “sorry” to Feinstein and Chambliss. It is widely understood, that if someone says “sorry” then we don’t look backwards, we look forwards. Get with the program bud.
What piqued my curiosity was that he fired back at Feinstein for her staffers. She lies by the sin of omission. She knows what’s going on (illegally) and lets it go on.
And while we’re holding people (allegedly) accountable for being despicable liars, can the President repossess Cheney’s new ticker? Fucking waste of a perfectly good heart.
sick bastard
I think I speak for everyone here when I say I’m shocked — shocked — to learn that a US intelligence official has lied to the public.
Question is, did he lie to his master, the President?
Ugarte: You despise me, don’t you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
— “Casablanca”
coram, isn’t that question moot if both he and the President are subordinate to an unacknowledged, unconstitutional master?
Crony Capitalism has created an enormous imbalance of power weighted on the side of those who create and manage the money system that feeds the most basic support of the freedom and justice, the economy.
Continuing the thought –
And since it is corrupted (the money system) the economy is being manipulated to fill the voracious needs of the crony capitalists, to the exclusion of meeting the needs of the People.
Moot? Well, yes, the question then becomes who Brennan’s master is, and whether he’s lying to him. Or her. Or it. If the DCI doesn’t answer to the President, then it hardly matters what he says to the President, given that. But who controls him, then?
LOL!
But to your question – there’s been an ongoing coup to upend the constitution for decades. The president is only a puppet, a figure head, a stuffed shirt. Whoever is Brennan’s superior is, he is also Obama’s superior. My personal opinion is that a few very wealthy, and therefore very powerful and influential, men associated with Wall Street and the global banking cartel are the group all members of the government, heads in the corporate world, and the supposedly independent oligarchs take their orders from. These orders are given in the most amiable terms. But everyone knows, or suspects, what would result were they to balk at following the given ‘suggestions’.
Certainly Obama knows how easy it is to assassinate presidents and senators.
BTW coram, did you see this the other day? Not very encouraging, I’d say. A bit too large a helping of hope and too small a serving of substantial nutrition.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/07/nsa-reform-crack-cocaine-109545_Page2.html#.U90ZLMf2IzB
Promising, though I’ve seen doubts elsewhere about whether ACLU should be supporting this bill. Compromise might not be a good thing if it concedes yardage permanently.
I thimk U r being to liberal to say “crony capitalism”. I believe it would be more accurate to say international banksters. U should read “the Protocols of Zion”
I wouldn’t read that at all – I’m not going to support antipathy towards Jews, as I will not support antipathy towards any group for their beliefs, their physical characteristics, or their culture.
Here, I give you my comment to another poster fascinated by the false Protocols –
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/31/lying/#comment-63529
It’s called corruption. They say no, no it isn’t. But from a taxpayers (consumers -to use a word they understand) experience it totally is. A-fuckin-men.
Not as consequential as the lies disclosed more recently, but I remember Brennan immediately pushing the story about Osama Bin Laden using one of his wives as a human shield when he the Navy Seals closed in on him, which I immediately knew was nonsense based on it being a too neat and tidy fit with a desired political characterization. Good to remember not only in terms of keeping proper accounts on this serial liar who should never have been let anywhere near the levers of power, but also of noting the similar messaging now being directed at the Palestinians that should be met with at least equal skepticism.
That’s something with Brennan that is just a bit different from most of the serial liars; his lies are at of a very stupid person. They are beyond what most would be willing to say in public. His lie about ‘zero collateral deaths’ by drone was equally as stupid. I don’t know exactly what that says about Brennan, beyond the obvious, but he is someone who is responsible for multiple assassinations. He is responsible in a big way for torturing countless human beings. How dangerous — And Stupid — can one man be and still get away with it?
I’m not sure if it’s a matter of stupidity, or that Brennan is besotted with power and invincibility to the point that he just doesn’t care what anyone thinks.
That’s probably part of it, but what’s the point of telling a lie that is so red-flag-stupid right out of the gate that no one with a gram of sense is going to buy it, and, thus, it won’t hold up to the least bit of scrutiny? I think stupidity must have something to do with Brennan’s lack of give a shit.
Guess we’re back to the time-honored “evil” vs. “stupid” dilemma. Kitt, agree there’s likely both in there. Either way, Brennan is living, breathing proof of the necessity of oversight.
Hey Rolo. Good to see you over here. For the third time now, I’ve been suppressed over on Salon. I give up on these asshats. Pretty soon, it will be the all Hillary Site and my most recent suppression was for telling the truth about the Israeli War Crimes.
Agreed, but the lying alone wouldn’t be quite so destructive if there were accountability when the lies are aired. People will lie; they always have. What makes this historical moment so fraught is the utter lack of accountability for lies designed to destabilize the world, wage illegal wars, and defend the indefensible. If they keep getting away with it, the sky’s the limit for what they’ll try to take.
It’s our job to insist they’re held accountable. As I said on TG’s article, this isn’t an “apology;” it’s a confession that crimes were committed. We need to act accordingly.
Obama did fire McChrystal. And this was his public announcement of his reasons:
That was probably poppycock, but he could easily trial balloon the same reasoning for firing Brennan.
Of course it was poppycock. “Yes, he urinated on my shoe, while I was in it, but I sacked him because he didn’t sing God Bless America in the key of B flat.”
This is a sell out. Don’t full yourselves. CIA only admit guilt as a trade for getting the edits they want in the report.
Why is that only baseball players ever get charged with lying to Congress?
Maybe because baseball is a business, and the play of national security and the Bill of Rights is only a game.
You know perfectly well, Martha Stewart also went to jail for lying to Congress!
All they ever do is smile and lie straight to your face, cheat, steal, rape and commit genocide. It’s all they’ve ever done.
Why would anyone expect the “torture report” to be true? Just ask the people they’re torturing what they did.
are you serious?
Crazy would be more accurate.
I cannot believe that Obama will fire Brennan—he nominated Brennan despite strong opposition from the Left, and I think the Intelligence/Security services have a LOT of influence these days. But it’s also that Obama shirks from confrontations. For goodness sake, Michelle Leonhardt, director of the DEA, has been directly and overtly insubordinate, and Obama doesn’t seem to have a problem with that: he pretty much toes the DEA line.
Wish I had Froomkin’s job. Been collecting a paycheck for how many months from Omidyar and this is what his second or third commentary? Done any original reporting Dan? Nice luck to have the workhorse Greenwald do all your magazine’s publishing
So you claim that Froomkin is collecting a paycheck and operating like an oligarch by having others do the heavy work.
Did you follow him at the WA Post? I would go every day to see what he was posting. His on line segment had the most traffic at WA PO. He was a hard worker there.
They are setting up a new organization. That takes a lot of work.
Have you noticed that Jeremy Scahill has posted very little as well. We know for sure that Scahill is a hard working, courageous journalist because he is more out in the open.
I trust that Dan has been working hard in his new role. The challenge to reinvent journalism in the US is a huge undertaking.
And it starts with the subject of this article. The officials must be held accountable for lies.
Re: Don
I agree that First Look’s “The Intercept” is a worthwhile and needed project, fostered and staffed by dedicated people who are seeking to provide reliable information and opinion to a very uninformed and hostile public. The hapless bloviating and self-serving vitriolic criticisms that are too often posited as substantive “Comments”, is merely an indication of one of the obstacles that must be considered and resolved on “the road less travelled” to providing uncensored professional journalism that this new venue has undertaken. From my view, it would be productive if this august staff of writers would post a regular update on what they view as the progress of the development of “The Intercept”, and encourage serious suggestions from their readership. Many people that I communicate with are disaffected by the time it takes to scroll through the chaotic collection of trolls and serial nay-sayers that permeate most otherwise informative websites.
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
Seems they do a great job. Certainly needed as The Empire expands its tentacles. Someone always has to find fault, try to tear down something like this. Probably just trolling for responses to stir things up and plant doubt…
SECRET meetings lead to SECRET laws approved by SECRET judges in their SECRET courts…
while SECRET weapons funded with SECRET money by SECRET agencies go to kill SECRET suspects…
the SECRET suspects (who are not killed) are placed in SECRET prisons while SECRET tribunals decide their SECRET cases with SECRET evidence…
What could go wrong???
Come election time, there is going to be some house cleaning.
It won’t make a bit of difference. Do you really think republicans will shrink/change/fix/prosecute & punish government and government corruption? In your dreams. This country is over. Welcome the the surveillance police state; Amerika.