On August 1, NPR’s Morning Edition broadcast a story by NPR national security reporter Dina Temple-Raston touting explosive claims from what she called “a tech firm based in Cambridge, Massachusetts.” That firm, Recorded Future, worked together with “a cyber expert, Mario Vuksan, the CEO of ReversingLabs,” to produce a new report that purported to vindicate the repeated accusation from U.S. officials that “revelations from former NSA contract worker Edward Snowden harmed national security and allowed terrorists to develop their own countermeasures.”
The “big data firm,” reported NPR, says that it now “has tangible evidence” proving the government’s accusations. Temple-Raston’s four-minute, 12-second story devoted the first 3 minutes and 20 seconds to uncritically repeating the report’s key conclusion that “just months after the Snowden documents were released, al-Qaeda dramatically changed the way its operatives interacted online” and, post-Snowden, “al-Qaeda didn’t just tinker at the edges of its seven-year-old encryption software; it overhauled it.” The only skepticism in the NPR report was relegated to 44 seconds at the end when she quoted security expert Bruce Schneier, who questioned the causal relationship between the Snowden disclosures and the new terrorist encryption programs, as well as the efficacy of the new encryption.
With this report, Temple-Raston seriously misled NPR’s millions of listeners. To begin with, Recorded Future, the outfit that produced the government-affirming report, is anything but independent. To the contrary, it is funded by the CIA and U.S. intelligence community with millions of dollars. Back in 2010, it also filed forms to become a vendor for the NSA. (In response to questions from The Intercept, the company’s vice president Jason Hines refused to say whether it works for the NSA, telling us that we should go FOIA that information if we want to know. But according to public reports, Recorded Future “earns most of its revenue from selling to Wall Street quants and intelligence agencies.”)
The connection between Recorded Future and the U.S. intelligence community is long known. Back in July, 2010, Wired‘s Noah Shachtman revealed that the company is backed by both “the investment arms of the CIA and Google.”
Indeed, In-Q-Tel—the deep-pocket investment arm of both the CIA and other intelligence agencies (including the NSA)—has seats on Recorded Future’s board of directors and, on its website, lists Recorded Future as one of the companies in its “portfolio.” In stark contrast to NPR, The New York Times noted these connections when reporting on the firm in 2011: “Recorded Future is financed with $8 million from the likes of Google’s venture arm and In-Q-Tel, which makes investments to benefit the United States intelligence community, and its clients have included government agencies and banks.”
Worse, Temple-Raston knows all of this. Back in 2012, NPR’s Morning Edition broadcast her profile of Recorded Future and its claimed ability to predict the future by gathering internet data. At the end of her report, she noted that the firm has “at least two very important financial backers: the CIA’s investment arm, called In-Q-Tel, and Google Ventures. They have reportedly poured millions into the company.”
That is the company she’s now featuring as some sort of independent source that can credibly vindicate the claims of U.S. officials about how Snowden reporting helps terrorists.
Beyond all that, the “cyber expert” who Temple-Raston told NPR listeners was “brought in” by Recorded Future to “investigate” these claims—Mario Vuksan, the CEO of ReversingLabs—has his own significant financial ties to the U.S. intelligence community. In 2012, In-Q-Tel proudly touted a “strategic partnership” with ReversingLabs to develop new technology for the Department of Homeland Security. Vuskan hailed the partnership as vital to his company’s future prospects.
If one wants to argue that a government-mimicking report from a company that is funded by the CIA, and whose board is composed in part of its investment arm, and which centrally relies on research from another CIA partner is somehow newsworthy—fine, one can have that debate. But to pass it off as some sort of independent analysis without even mentioning those central ties is reckless and deceitful—especially when, as is true here, the reporter doing it clearly knows about those ties.
Beyond all these CIA connections, the conclusion touted in the NPR report—that al-Qaeda developed more sophisticated encryption techniques due to the Snowden reporting—is dubious in the extreme. It is also undercut by documents contained in the Snowden archive.
The Recorded Future “report”—which was actually nothing more than a short blog post—is designed to bolster the year-long fear-mongering campaign of U.S. and British officials arguing that terrorists would realize the need to hide their communications and develop effective means of doing so by virtue of the Snowden reporting. Predictably, former NSA General Counsel Stewart Baker promptly seized on the report (still concealing the firm’s CIA connections from readers) to argue in The Washington Post that “the evidence is mounting that Edward Snowden and his journalist allies have helped al-Qaeda improve their security against NSA surveillance.”
But actual terrorists—long before the Snowden reporting—have been fixated on developing encryption methods and other techniques to protect their communications from electronic surveillance. And they have succeeded in a quite sophisticated manner.
One document found in the GCHQ archive provided by Snowden is a 45-page, single-spaced manual that the British spy agency calls a “Jihadist Handbook.” Though undated, the content suggests it was originally written in 2002 or 2003: more than 10 years before the Snowden reporting began. It appears to have been last updated shortly after September 2003, and translated into English by GCHQ sometime in 2005 or 2006. Much of it is found online in Arabic. The handbook appears to be an excerpt from a 268-page document called “Abu Zubaydah’s Encyclopedia.” The encyclopedia, uploaded in Arabic to the internet in 2011, describes itself as the “cumulative result of efforts of the brothers who walked on the path of jihad” and contains highly specific and sophisticated instructions for avoiding electronic surveillance.
The first section of the decade-old handbook is entitled “The General Security for all Means of Communication” and includes directions on how to keep landline and mobile telephone calls, emails, and online chats secure. It also includes a detailed discussion of how SIM cards in cell phones can be used by the NSA as tracking devices: exactly the subject of the very first story The Intercept ever published from the Snowden material. The manual further instructs operatives that merely turning off one’s cell phone is insufficient to avoid tracking; instead, it instructs, both the battery and SIM card must be removed. It extensively describes how code words should be used for all online communications.
So sophisticated is the 10-year-old “Jihadist Manual” that, in many sections, it is virtually identical to the GCHQ’s own manual, developed years later (in 2010), for instructing its operatives how to keep their communications secure:
Long before the Snowden reporting, then, those considered by the U.S. to be “terrorists” have been fixated on avoiding electronic surveillance, which is why Osama bin Laden communicated only through personal courier. The “Jihadist Handbook” demonstrates how widespread and sophisticated these techniques have been for many years (GCHQ declined to respond beyond its routine boilerplate claiming that its operations are legal, which has nothing to do with this story).
Then there are the glaring and self-evident fallacies in the report itself. The principal claim on which its conclusion is based is the chronology that extremist groups announced a roll-out of “the first Islamic encryption software for mobiles” in September, 2013 (3 months after the first Snowden report), followed by a new encryption product in December (“The Mujahid’s Security”).
But it should go without saying that this proves nothing about causation; it is a basic logical principle that “A precedes B” is not evidence that “A caused B.” The original Recorded Future report literally did nothing more than assert that there were visible encryption improvements from al-Qaeda that post-dated the first Snowden story, and then, based on no evidence, just asserted the causal link.
Beyond that obvious post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, there is no question that “jihadists” have been working for years on sophisticated tactics for communications security; the fact that they continued to be after the Snowden reporting began literally proves nothing.
Indeed, in September of last year, The New York Times made clear that the “jihadists” began developing their own advanced encryption methods years before the start of the Snowden reporting:
Al Qaeda’s use of advanced encryption technology dates to 2007, when the Global Islamic Media Front released the Asrar al-Mujahedeen, or so-called “Mujahedeen Secrets,” software. An updated version, Mujahedeen Secrets 2, was released in January 2008, and has been revised at least twice, most recently in May 2012, analysts said.
The program was popularized in the first issue of Inspire, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula’s quarterly online magazine, in a July 2010 post entitled “How to Use Asrar al-Mujahedeen: Sending and Receiving Encrypted Messages.”
Since then, each issue of Inspire has offered a how-to section on encrypting communications, recommending MS2 as the main encryption tool.
All the way back in February, 2001, USA Today reported that al-Qaeda and other groups have been using “uncrackable encryption” since the mid-1990s; the 2001 article stated: “encryption has become the everyday tool of Muslim extremists in Afghanistan, Albania, Britain, Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines, Syria, the USA, the West Bank and Gaza and Yemen, U.S. officials say.”
As has long been clear, “the terrorists” did not need Snowden reporting to know that the U.S. and its partners are doing everything possible to monitor their communications. It is certainly possible that some extremists, like ordinary users all over the world, are more conscious now than before about the need to secure their communications—just as some extremists became aware of interrogation techniques they may face if detained by virtue of reporting on American torture (which is why torture advocates argued that such reporting also helped terrorists). But the key revelation of the Snowden reporting is that the surveillance system built in secret by the NSA and its partners is directed at hundreds of millions of ordinary people and entire populations rather than “the terrorists.”
Responding to one of the criticisms about the glaring flaws in its report (the obvious absence of causation evidence), Recorded Future admits that “in 2007 Al-Qaeda (AQ) had one encryption product (Asrar) for one platform (PC) which has since been periodically updated (e.g. in 2008).” They claim there was a “significant uptick” after the Snowden reporting but still offer no evidence of a causal connection nor any explanation as to what “the terrorists” learned from those reports that could help them better safeguard their communications or that would provide added motivation to shield those communications.
Critically, even if one wanted to accept Recorded Future’s timeline as true, there are all sorts of plausible reasons other than Snowden revelations why these groups would have been motivated to develop new encryption protections. One obvious impetus is the August 2013 government boasting to McClatchy (and The Daily Beast) that the State Department ordered the closing of 21 embassies because of what it learned from an intercepted “conference call” among Al Qaeda leaders:
An official who’d been briefed on the matter in Sanaa, the Yemeni capital, told McClatchy that the embassy closings and travel advisory were the result of an intercepted communication between Nasir al-Wuhayshi, the head of the Yemen-based Al Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, and al Qaida leader Ayman al Zawahiri in which Zawahiri gave “clear orders” to al-Wuhaysi, who was recently named al Qaida’s general manager, to carry out an attack.
As The Daily Beast put it: “Al-Qaeda leaders had assumed the conference calls, which give Zawahiri the ability to manage his organization from a remote location, were secure. But leaks about the original intercepts have likely exposed the operation that allowed the U.S. intelligence community to listen in on the al-Qaeda board meetings.”
It does the U.S. government no good to attribute these new encryption efforts to leaks from the U.S. government itself. Recorded Future thus ignores that possibility altogether and suggests—with absolutely no evidence—that it was due to Snowden revelations.
They do so even though The New York Times reported a month after the “conference call” leak that “senior officials have made a startling finding: the impact of a leaked terrorist plot by Al Qaeda in August has caused more immediate damage to American counterterrorism efforts than the thousands of classified documents disclosed by Edward Snowden.” The NYT added: “The drop in message traffic after the communication intercepts contrasts with what analysts describe as a far more muted impact on counterterrorism efforts from the disclosures by Mr. Snowden of the broad capabilities of N.S.A. surveillance programs.”
Then there’s the completely unproven yet vital assumption that this series of events—even if they happened this way—actually helped the terrorists evade monitoring. Bruce Schneier, the security expert quoted at the end of the NPR report, thinks exactly the opposite is true. He notes numerous journalists, in the wake of the report, asked him “how this will adversely affect US intelligence efforts,” and he explained:
I think the reverse is true. I think this will help US intelligence efforts. Cryptography is hard, and the odds that a home-brew encryption product is better than a well-studied open-source tool is slight. Last fall, Matt Blaze said to me that he thought that the Snowden documents will usher in a new dark age of cryptography, as people abandon good algorithms and software for snake oil of their own devising. My guess is that this an example of that.
Chris Soghoian, technologist for the ACLU (whose lawyers represent Snowden) noted that these types of stories have been emerging long before Snowden reporting, telling The Intercept: “every few years, a think tank or security company puts out a report on the use of bespoke encryption software by terrorists, and then media eats it up.”
In the wake of such criticism, Recorded Future issued a supplement to its report, this time claiming that the terrorists “are not using home-brew crypto algorithms” but rather “off the shelf” methods of cryptography. But like Schneier, Soghoian suggested that the developments claimed by Recorded Future would make it easier, not harder, for the U.S. government to monitor the communications of extremists:
If we assume that these programs are developed and distributed by jihadist sympathizers, and not an intelligence service, then the fact that they continue to develop new encryption tools and advocate their use is only further evidence that they don’t really know what they’re doing. Using terrorist-specific encryption tools will only attract the attention of intelligence agencies. If smart terrorists are using encryption, they’re likely using tools like Tor and PGP, the same tools used by government agencies, corporations, journalists, activists and security experts.
Then there are the bizarre implications from embracing the claims of the Recorded Future report. For years, both privacy advocates and experts in cryptography have published guides for how internet users can protect the privacy of their online activities using encryption programs such as PGP email and Tor. Recorded Future claims that terrorist groups are using “open source” and “off the shelf” encryption to shield their communications: does that mean that anyone who publishes information on encryption is guilty of helping the terrorists?
In sum, Recorded Future is a CIA-dependent company devoted to spreading pro-government propaganda, no matter how absurd. Among its lowlights is its boasting of how it monitored media coverage of Occupy Wall Street, whereby it claimed to detect Iran’s “growing influence” over that coverage: “We recently Tweeted a shared link showing coverage and gaining online momentum for the Occupy Wall Street movement. When we look more carefully at influencers in this discussion using our Influencer Map, we find that Iran Press TV is the second largest influencer after the US Media!”
None of these serious doubts, fallacies, or questions about this company and its “report” were even alluded to by Temple-Raston in her NPR story, beyond a cursory and very limited Schneier quote tacked onto the end. It’s hardly surprising that these kinds of firms, linked to and dependent on the largesse of the U.S. intelligence community, produce pro-government tripe of this sort. That’s their function. It’s the job of media outlets to scrutinize these claims, not mindlessly repeat and then glorify them as NPR did here.
Nadine Chalak contributed additional reporting to this article. Andrew Fishman, whose bio line was initially left off this post due to an oversight, is an Intercept staffer based in Rio. He was formerly an intern and freelancer for NPR.


Awesome. Greenwald angered by Greenwaldian-style reporting aimed at Greenwald.
And text is altered as I type to result in the messy message below. This is standard practice of mind control ops that is well documented and used to project an image of an unstable mind. This effort supports the narrative, well-constructed by the torture industry itself, that casts victims of classified mind control operations as psychotics. Those who know the history of the abuses often know better while the rest prove easy targets for manipulation and disinformation.
Actually, as a protester I came up with this idea myself to drop the Coitelpro. Then ten years later I said fuck off now I really am ducking crazy. That’s how shaking the popo an the Unions work. Go fuck yourself she is fucking bi polar and real.
Vicevices in ts to access this page are superlative frustrated. The system aborts the connection the moment this page’s U R L appears on the address bar. Someone at Google has removed a journal titled : ‘Nanodevi ces in mind control torture (Update ‘ from the database. This document documents my abuse and appeared as a I know recently in our efforts of my posts on this website. The Intercept page itself appears cloned. All the tabs – Voices, News, etc are all missing.
I came here indirectly from the CJR through assorted links. Not here to vent, rant, troll or disrupt. Just sayin’ …
Well, Glenn, this piece is all fine and dandy, as far as it goes, which is far, and that’s dandy, but still somewhat mystified by what you don’t say or include in this piece. I mean, sure Temple-Raston deserves another beat-down, worse than one you gave her a couple years back when she gave you that “maybe there are things that I have seen, Glenn” defense of her defense of being a presdiential lap dog, but there’s more and I’m surprised you missed it.
The silly 5-minute NPR mcnugget all dipped in Dina’s honeyed voice made its debut on the drive-time drive-through menu on August 1, 20014. Your Intercept piece is delivered on August 12. But what’s missing is any reference or inclusion in your piece about the WaPo piece that appeared on August 3rd: “As evidence mounts, it’s getting harder to defend Edward Snowden”, penned by one Stewart Baker. ( http://tinyurl.com/op22fqc ) Interesting for a number of reasons:
* Like you, Baker cites the same Bruce Schneier blog, but, unlike you, he attacks Schneier’s credibility with respect to the blog and its assumptions about al Qaeda cryptographic adaptations, and while Baker does not mention you by name, he essentially libels Schneier as a lackey for people like you (not that there is anyone else like you, Glenn; that’s just a figure of speech).
* Baker is a former counsel for the NSA and a current principal champion of its machinations. His own blogging on the group blog site, the Volokh Conspiracy, (www.volokh.com ), where he often cites legal cases in defense or clarification of NSA shit, would be, I put forth, a natural place for you to plant one of your IEDs (improvided expressive device: usually I mean by that a pun, but a blog can go boom, too). And, say, as if by magic, while on their site, I got re-directed to WaPo, “as part of a new joint venture with the Post.”
* Yes, Recorded Future was set up by the CIA, and natuarlly the company continues to have vital connections (what, like Q-Tip, the Company’s venture tentacle is a charity now? Maybe you need to clean out your ears, or get a wax job or),and importantly what the predictive database system does is mimic quite a bit of what has been released by Snowden through you — a comparison of RF’s disposition matrix and hacking tools, with their user-friendly GUI, could suit a busy executive office and bears comparison to XKeyscore.
* WaPo is owned Amazon (Bezos) and Amazon is building a database for the CIA, which, among other things, suggests a conflict of interest for reporting anyway, let alone a piece written by an intel counsel (and not mentioned in the piece). So you have a company–Amazon–building a CIA database out one orifice and allowing penetration by another spook into another, and yet you do not mention this? Why not? Could it be (I’m being cynical) because you have your mother lode Snowden book with Amazon and because you use their algorithms for your Intercept site? Or maybe because Amazon is one of eBay’s principal competitors (only about 7% of Amazon’s total revenues comes from book sales; the rest from selling other stuff, like eBay: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2014/02/10/amazon-vs-book-publishers-by-the-numbers/
* And Baker is not just any spook, as implied above, I know, but what’s more, he gave key testimony before the 9/11 Commission in which he specifically suggests that ‘if only we’d had predictive analytics working for us’… (http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing6/witness_baker.pdf)
* The Baker piece has a hilarious “update” attached to it, saying the RF complained about being called a “predictive analyst” company because, you knowm that is so specific, and they prefer to be called by the less threatening (more PR-friendly) “web intelligence” moniker. You know, like Amazon algorithms do. Of course, predictive analysis is exactly what the company says it does to potential clients; it’s what they demo; it’s built into their bloody name.
* Anyway, Glenn, please do look into. After all the CJR has a recent piece indicatiing that the new WaPo is intent on “global domination.” And while you all-star journos are at it delve into the beginnings and associations of Mandiant that security company hired by (coincidently) WaPo and the NYT to discover the intrusion points of those “Chinese” hackers last year. Not longer after WaPo went up for sale.
I’ve been a subscriber to Recorded Future for two or three years now. When they first started out you could download and test-drive their software, but some time last year (July?) they stopped that free stuf and you had to start dinging up if you wanted to cha-cha. Still, you can learn a lot by exploring their site, which is encouraged since they are the private, non-accountable arm of Captain Intel and his merry wanksters. Here’s a YouTube RC uploaded to show you how information is gathered about an individual. Hilariously, they use Barack Obama as a model. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5etSid8G6EU&list=UU7m7R89LUl6nlrfQlYisXWQ ) Which I found not so much ironic, as, you know, a reminder to the president of what they know.
The war on terrorism is a fraud.It gives government the excuse to attack it’s own people.john Bertotto
My apologies re: my comment on the nested posting problem. I should have a) thanked the IT techs for their work in improving the comment section, particularly the “text is too light when quoting” issue, and b) emphasized that I do understand that they are working on it, and that things will improve. Regards, Sillyputty
My last comment was to Nate here: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/12/nprs-dina-temple-raston-passed-cia-funded-nsa-contractor-independent-fear-monger-snowden-reporting/#comment-69962
It was regarding the NPR claim that the majority of comments received were exceedingly hyperbolic, in order to deflect attention from the issue at hand.
And why in the hell are all of my comments (and others) that are properly replied to to a specific comment, not being nested to that comment? Extremely aggravating for all. Even this comment will probably show at the top, and not below the comment it was in response to.
Per the NPR this was “in a typical message
I hardly think that this type of hyperbole was the “typical message,” if so, I’d like to see the data to back up that claim. What I wrote was respectful and to the point, as I think exemplified the more “typical” responses that were received about this story.
If I were the Intercept, I would ask for those comments, sans identifiers, to verify that claim.
This answered one of the questions in my rant about the Board:
An observer on the Board has no voting rights. As for my other question, which had to do with the level of financial involvement:
10 percent. That is not “dependent” as Glenn characterized it.
The NPR ombudsman’s response is a case study on the limits of ombudsman oversight. To them leaving out Andrew Fishman’s connection to NPR due to oversight is the same as Temple-Raston leaving out most important conflict of interest. NPR does a great job reporting news that do not challenge the establishment in any way, and how great is that LOL …..
The above response re: the NPR ombudsmen link was in reply to Kitt – apparently nested posting is hit-or-miss, as is enclosing my italicized quotes correctly, it seems….Thanks again.
“the coincidence is a reminder of the wisdom of humility before throwing stones at someone else’s mistake.
This from the NPR ombudsman, regarding errors by The Intercept being equivalent to the error of the ongoing non-reporting at NPR.
And as seer rightly notes. “an error of omission due to deadline concerns is countered by the fact that it could have been corrected by mentioning the omitted information in the following day or two, as NPR often does.”/em>
But what this ombudsman response really shows is that they have missed the point entirely.
When long time listeners and readers. like me, contact them not for missing a fact or two, but in noticing and calling them on the fact that since NPR has strengthened its corporate/governmental ties (for example, that the CIA/In-Q-Tel can send overseers to board meetings, but they get no vote, just one more recent example I knew nothing of and that should have been mentioned in the reporting) they don’t acknowledge the disconnect between its readership and NPR, they defend the status quo.
Not only that, they throw stones at those who call them on it.
Thanks for the link Kitt – and a huge thank you to the Intercept and Glenn Greenwald for shaking the tree of ever-expanding journalistic jingoism, and allowing us the pleasure, and the knowledge, to know where the facts lay – and what sources lie – either by omission, neglect or on purpose.
NPR Ombudsman’s response/rebuttal to this post
Temple-Raston:
Oh. Well okay then. No harm done. (snark)
Thank you Kitt –
Excellent!
The claim it was an error of omission due to deadline concerns is countered by the fact that it could have been corrected by mentioning the omitted information in the following day or two, as NPR often does. This omission of *critical* information, combined with NPR’s history of compliance with reporting govt propaganda, indicates the omission was deliberate, standard operating procedure for them.
The distinguishing characteristic of Glenn’s mistake was that *he* corrected it ASAP, while NPR hasn’t yet and would have allowed their listeners to continue in ignorance of their oversight had GG not pointed it out.
“Let’s look first at what the story failed to report.
The government, along with Google and many private companies, is an investor in Recorded Future. The government does so through In-Q-Tel, a quasi-government venture capital fund that publicly invests in young high-tech companies on behalf of the CIA and other partner intelligence agencies in hopes of encouraging the development of commercial technology that the agencies can use.”
That is a huge omission when the title of the NPR report is: “Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data to Changed Terrorist Behavior” and the “Big Data Firm” is “Recorded Future” which just happens to be an indirect Google/CIA asset by virtue of capital fund ownership by “In-Q-Tel” regardless of whether or not Recorded Future has a vote on the In-Q-Tel board. The thing speaks for itself.
As far as I’m concerned, this NPR rebuttal gives increased validation to Mr. Greenwald’s argument. NPR was most definitely misleading listeners by failing to state that a “Quasi-Government Intelligence Agency/CIA/Google Data Collection and Recording Business Firm Says That it Can Link Snowden Data to Changed Terrorist Behavior.” That would have been the truth but it does change the overall significance and value of the report to equal government propaganda.
Thanks Mr. Greenwald.
Wow, this is a 10/10 on melodrama. Sheesh…
NPR is in my mind the most insidious propaganda outlet in the US. Many people still consider it a “Liberal” or “Progressive” news source. It is not. They are entirely corporate. They promote corporate interests from fossil fuel extraction industry to the weapons industry. NPR pro Israeli bias is as stark as it gets. That they are trying to legitimize character assassination of Snowden by our corporate serving government is entirely predictable. NPR is the perfect example of why we need reinstatement of the fairness doctrine..
What do NPR and Temple-Raston have to say about this? Were they contacted about this, prior to publication, to get their comments?
OT – But necessary.
I’ve run into several compulsive “pigeonholers” while posting at The Intercept since its origin, and I’m always tickled at their neurotic obsession to make their place known to all in whatever perceived pecking order that they think exists in the commentary section.
These fixated pigeonholers inevitably resort to labeling their contemporaries, using such helpful categories as: “reactionary libertarian;” “the combative/stupid;” “vocab liberals;” “insistent (but pretend) economists;” and “self righteous liberals,” just to name a few.
Also intriguing is their methodology. Almost always it is all done by categorizing others obliquely so that they fit in where the pigeonholer wants them to – thus for these pigeonholers, cowardliness seems to be a prerequisite for the much needed job of putting people in their place around here.
What follows inevitably is that the pigeonholer must protect their pusillanimous, made-up world view. This is done, almost always, not by addressing specific concerns or even by using their own arguments themselves, but rather by commenting on subjects not even addressed to them, apparently in order to keep their newly, narcissistically created world from collapsing around their ears when someone dares stray from the pigeonhole into which they have been so properly placed.
At some point most of these pigeonholers realize that they are among contemporaries that value mature contributions and critique, and therefore feel less threatened by adult discourse, but not always. It is then that these pigeonholers – again gutlessly – resort to insinuation, implication, innuendo, and list-making in order to keep the commenter’s here in line.
In this case I’m specifically referring to Macroman. Unlike Macroman, I don’t have to use a first initial, list-making, or any other of the contrivances Macroman uses in order to feel comfortable here – and my suggestion to others is that they do the same.
Lastly – and specifically to Macroman – fuck off, and take your compulsive pigeonholing and precognitive posting for others without their consent with you.
My apologies to others for taking up space on here this narcissist, Macroman, in the comment section; but addressing this childish behavior sooner and more directly is better than putting up with it.
“Imagining that you are deep and complex, but others are simple, is one of the primary signs of malignant selfishness.”
– Stefan Molyneux
The NPR reports have been sounding more and more like MSM over the past 2 years. I finally gave up being their member when I can find no difference between them and MSM, esp when it comes to Snowden, NSA, and Ukraine…..
This is what happens when you privatize public radio which in turn then becomes beholden to a few large hedge fund operators whose view of the world comes from locations like Park Avenue and 67th St.
Great article. While The Intercepts bias of defending it’s founders work is understandable, at least you know the bias and can take into consideration. NPR used to be a great liberal source of news and human interest, but since 2009 they’ve shifted to the progressive, which is just as ignorant as being a tea Billie. When organizations like NPR become ultra partisan and will print or say things to protect the administration, that’s a sign of the death of the moderate. We need more moderate voices to hold these people accountable for their misleading actions.
JDC: NPR has not moved to “the progressive” as much as it has often seemed to become captive to the neo-liberal point of view that protects the status-quo (or status-quo-ante), just the opposite of progressives. For additional examples of neo-liberal media see the WaPo and NYT.
You’re using the terms “liberal” and “progressive” rather loosely. Obama is neither. He’s a neocon, much closer to the “moderates” you advocate than to anything remotely on the left.
Was jogging around the (U.S.) Capitol building yesterday and almost got run over by a cop while in a crosswalk. I went ballistic and started yelling/cursing and the look he gave me was one of utter disbelief that a citizen would expect him to follow the law. He was speechless, never said a word. That is where we are in the imperial city, folks. Still an amazing jogging route though. I am a lucky bastard.
Whoops, this was meant for the Ferguson story…I’m a dumbass.
“I’m a dumbass.”
No worries, Macroman, it happens to the best of us.
The US has declared war on al Qaeda and its “affiliates” and they have declared war on the US. Is there some reason why moral people can’t discuss which side (if either) it is more appropriate to support? Or is this like sports where you are labeled a traitor if you don’t support the ‘home’ team…no matter if that team represents your personal values or not. With every new article Glenn publishes I feel like the trees are increasingly obscuring the forest. Both sides seem to imply we are in an existential fight against psychotic enemies hell bent on world domination and our subjugation but I have yet to see any evidence to support this theory that doesn’t strike me as patently absurd. I have read every single thing written by Osama bin Laden (that I could get my hands on) and have yet to find anything demonstrably false. It seems like every discussion of the ‘war on terror’ (to the degree it is ever actually discussed) begins and ends with ‘we are good’ and ‘they are evil’. Is it possible that it might be a bit more complex than that and, if it is, isn’t it worth having a debate about a process by which the west spends trillions of dollars (pushing their economies to the brink of collapse), causes the death and suffering of 100s of thousands of people and is used as an argument for us to surrender time honored Rights and principles? Does even asking these questions put me in jeopardy of being labeled a traitor and ‘terrorist’ sympathizer? Is it permissible to ask philosophical questions like ‘are we human beings first or Americans first’ or ‘are we creating more terrorists with these policies than they are eliminating’? Just what are the boundaries of acceptable debate in a time of never ending war?
I absolutely agree that moral people should be able to discuss which side it’s more appropriate to support.
I’m morally inclined to support secular, liberal, tolerant values over theocratic and reactionary ones. I don’t want to live in a dictatorship, or a totalitarian state. If the ONLY choice were between living in a spy state that attempted to uphold women’s rights, gay rights and freedom of religion, versus living in a spy state that demanded I convert to Islam, I would choose the former.
While that is not the only choice, the criticism of our own governments’ overreach shouldn’t be used to take away from the fact that wahabiist islam and jihad really are the enemies of liberal values (and liberty) as well. It is one thing to criticize your own government; and no one should have to worry about his rights being restricted for doing so. The service Mr Snowden and Mr Greenwald are providing is the information for rational people in our society to come to the conclusion that we needn’t sacrifice our freedoms. That said, it’s quite another thing to determine that just because the system you live in is corrupted and dangerously edging toward totalitarianism, the system on the other side must somehow be better. The system on the other side, to date, is quite a bit worse if you take a look at the recent beheading photos of Christians, Shiites and Yazidis out of Iraq and Syria.
So to answer your question, there ought to be no boundaries to acceptable debate; but a lot of genuinely good people can’t grasp that to denounce the creeping fascism in the US does not require you to praise the fascistic theocracy advanced by Islamic suicide bombers. It is possible to denounce both and still prefer one over the other — and to anyone who thinks their wife has a right to drive her car to the market, or who likes to have a drink, or who is godforbid an atheist like me and doesn’t want to be forced to pray on pain of death… seems like a no-brainer that we can support a war against Islamic radicalism and still criticize our own government’s tactics sometimes.
seer..
No, it hasn’t. What your ‘summarization’ consists of, are fictional innuendos that have accused me of some baseless “crime” against humanity, sans any verifiable evidence to back said claim. Shame becomes you.
Currently, we’ve addressed each other twice in the span of 10 months. The first dialogue transpired months ago when I took exception to your endorsement of Dave Brat and politely linked (i.e. provided ‘evidence’) to his website which exposed his campaign rhetoric for the fallaciousness that it was. The second exchange was yesterday when you mocked my sanity and accused me of “deceitful cruelty” based on my questioning whether or not your *’Texas Education’ opinion was snark.
This is the point of our conversation where you either apologize for your treacherous assumption, or provide proof of my complicity in a purported “crime” that has presumably “negatively impacted” “another person’s well-being”.
Your honour depends on it..
donger-suave-rico
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/12/nprs-dina-temple-raston-passed-cia-funded-nsa-contractor-independent-fear-monger-snowden-reporting/#comment-67884
@ suave:
There are two sides to every story. This is none of my business but it is unfortunate that you and seer can not resolve your conflict directly on the same sub-thread.
Lyra1,
I have no way of contacting him privately, else I would have. But he has lied about me and his lies have had deleterious effect on me. What he did is absolutely against any ethical standard worth living for. When he gives me a way of contacting him, other than this public fora, I will be glad to take my complaint against him off line.
Seer, Suave is a chump and has been for years before you got to GG’s understory. Let it go.
Thanks Macroman. Much appreciated.
Thanks for cowardly attacking ones character sans any evidence to justify their claim?
Oh wait, that epitomizes your pathetically, disingenuous existence. Fair enough.
ps – Macro.. How about you do this brohamulus a solid and save your ‘hissy fits’ for the streets of DC. Stay special.
`Lyra..
With all due respect, not currently.
Speaking of “Google” investments, many of them recently have been focused on enhancing bio-recognition integration with other data collection methods. Presently, they are conducting a conference for select attendees to discuss integration of “genome” data with other collected tidbits of information – ostensibly to extend the “life span.”
See: “Calico Discussed at The Google Camp”
http://www.batr.org/corporatocracy/081314.html
{“Reported by NBC local TV channel in the Bay Area has “guests include Goldman Sachs chief executive Lloyd C. Blankfein, executives from German and Spanish banks, Uber chief Travis Kalanick, Tesla boss Elon Musk, Comcast CEO Brian L. Roberts and Snapchat boss Evan Spiegel. Also on hand is Ben Horowitz, venture capitalist with Marc Andreessen at make-or-break Silicon Valley fund Andreessen Horowitz.”}
Really disturbing that CIA funds itself through an investment arm.
The CIA has an investment arm?
That ain’t all…
http://cryptome.org/2012/10/cia-proprietaries-agents.htm
Not to mention…
http://cd.textfiles.com/thegreatunsorted/texts/txtfiles_misc/cia500.txt
Damn chronicle!
“For the first time anywhere in the world, a documented list (alphabetically
arranged) provides information on over 500 camouflaged or subsidised organiza-
tions of the U.S. secret intelligence network on five continents.”
Holy Shit!
Maybe we should just ask for the short list….Organizations Not Controlled or Financed by the US Shadow Government.
Of course the CIA has an investment arm. And a publishing company. And a US based airline (Air America). Btw, its pilots are trained at the United pilot training facility n Denver (Quebec and 37th St near the old Stapleton airport).
All the military hardware on display in Ferguson isn’t meant for the people of that city only. It’s a warning to the whole country. Psychologically the country is divided into bantustans with no realization of solidarity. When things like the protests in Ferguson spill over into other communities we will find out why the police all over the country have been militarized. They know the day is not far off. Has Obama said that the police have a right to defend themselves yet?
“Has Obama said that the police have a right to defend themselves yet?”
Indirectly yes.
See: “Pentagon fueled Ferguson confrontation”
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/14/375249/pentagon-fueled-ferguson-confrontation/
{“Michelle McCaskill, media relations chief at the Defense Logistics Agency, confirms that the Ferguson Police Department is part of a federal program called 1033 that distributes hundreds of millions of dollars of surplus military equipment to civilian police forces across the United States. The materials range from small items, such as pistols and automatic rifles, to heavy armored vehicles such as the MRAPs used in Afghanistan and Iraq.
“In 2013 alone, $449,309,003.71 worth of property was transferred to law enforcement,” the agency’s website states.”}
Hi Nate – again it’s pretty mundane… i don’t really know, but they’ve invested in 100s of companies i think. Try Crunchbase – good place to find what investors have invested in what companies. I think these guys are getting all “excited” about something that was exciting in 1999…
Based on the video that Mona posted it appears that the Ferguson PD are using an LRAD.
From Tech-FAQ:
The LRAD or the long range acoustic device that has been developed by American Technology Corporation is capable of emitting a maximum of 151Db sound within 30 degrees of where the device is pointing. This device can be used as a combatant deterrent weapon or crowd-control device by emitting sounds that are painful to the ears.
The LRAD weighs about 210 kilograms and is capable of emitting sound within a 15 to 30 degree beam. The range of the LRAD is 300 to 500 meters and, at maximum volume, it can emit sound 50 times greater than the human threshold for pain so it can cause permanent damage.
The primary advantage in military and law enforcement circles is that the LRAD is a less than lethal solution that has the potential to prevent antagonists from continuing their unwanted activities, without endangering the friendly personnel.
• The loud sounds the LRAD emits may cause permanent hearing damage to those within its range.
• The LRAD sound wave can be cancelled altogether through the use of common earplugs. The better the earplugs are at blocking sound waves, the less effective the LRAD is.
• Sounds emitted from the LRAD can be reflected back to the source by using a flat solid object.
http://www.tech-faq.com/long-range-acoustic-device.html
@ Tujays,
10-to-1, The Ferguson PD was trained by Israel. WHAT is a US peace officer force doing wearing combat fatigues with high-powered rifles, SWAT gear, and oxygen masks to patrol civic venues? They look like IDF.
This Israeli soldier describes the proxy and what they are doing here in the US WITHOUT PUBLIC DEBATE OR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOWING ABOUT IT in the last 10 min (although the entire video is worth watching). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hqlmrZKd8
community posted pictures and comments curbside from a riot
hard to confirm~~apparently, the American Union woman that spoke on Rachael Maddow show tonight, returned to the confrontation and faced off with a County police officer with an assault rifle pointed at her chest.
Those cops in Ferguson are still rioting? What the fuck is their problem, yo?
Their problem is that they were trained by a foreign military–Israelis–in complete violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, and no one–no one in our vaunted Fourth Estate–has the balls to publish or broadcast it. Or scream bloody murder about it.
Curious what happened to the article about military action disguised as humanitarian aid?
It done disappeared!
You kids must be doing top work if Amy Goodman touts and discusses your stuff multiple times a week
Congrats to all
the Ferguson situation is tragic, but the FACE of it is already so DISTORTED no resolution is available.
You can watch the riots first hand (sinister) by googling “Missouri riots live”
Sad world we live in with all the high tech tools and NO UNDERSTANDING
Yes, the police should stop rioting and return control of the town to its residents.
Antonio French, Alderman in St Louis, Arrested in Ferguson, MO Protests
Why?
Rest, with some of his videos, here: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/875545-antonio-french-alderman-in-st-louis-arrested-in-ferguson-mo-protests-videos/
What does it make you wonder? Maybe you should think a little, and stop wondering less. I’m not going to explain to you what you should think. I’m too busy to educate you right now. But you should stop wondering so much. I’m not sure it does you any good.
so you can’t describe what it makes you wonder?
You are engaging tarzie in his latest incarnation here. Once Glenn wakes up, this one will be banned as well. He just can’t control his compulsion to crapflood, and keeps returning to it here as a dog does to its vomit.
In my view, it is best to ignore him until Glenn poofs him.
15 people on staff at this WordPress blog and nobody writing about Ferguson and nobody on the ground there. And you folks call yourselves journalists?
My spanx made me batshit, if they did write about ferguson that would somehow make them capitalist apologists. Source: all your comments on the story immediately following this one.
Do us a favor and break back into bellvue.
Spanx has been dealt with by management. They cleaned up all the aisles in which he was pissing and defecating, and removed him to the diaper ward.
The convergence of corporate and government surveillance and social control has the consequence of a developing variant of fascism with an peculiarly American cultural flair.
Hey Glenn
Why didn’t you write about MonsterMind?
I think it has to do with the same reason he reports on spying on foreign citizens abroad (I am very willing to be corrected in anything I say here I after all am not a psychic). Glenn believes that civilians worldwide have a right not to be spied on/civil liberties globally/human rights globally and focuses his reporting on this (See: His whole body of work). Monster Mind isn’t in that vein.
A B there buddy…
(Edit)
A does not equal B there buddy
HuffingtonPost’s Statement on Ferguson Arrest of Reporters
We are relieved Ryan Reilly and Wesley Lowery are safe, but we are disturbed by their arrest and assault.
Ryan was working on his laptop in a McDonald’s near the protests in Ferguson, MO, when police barged in, armed with high-powered weapons, and began clearing the restaurant. Ryan photographed the intrusion, and police demanded his ID in response. Ryan, as is his right, declined to provide it. He proceeded to pack up his belongings, but was subsequently arrested for not packing up fast enough. Both Ryan and Wesley were assaulted.
Compared to some others who have come into contact with the police department, they came out relatively unscathed, but that in no way excuses the false arrest or the militant aggression toward these journalists. Ryan, who has reported multiple times from Guantanamo Bay, said that the police resembled soldiers more than officers, and treated those inside the McDonald’s as “enemy combatants.” Police militarization has been among the most consequential and unnoticed developments of our time, and it is now beginning to affect press freedom.
— Ryan Grim, Huffington Post Washington Bureau Chief
Can’t we focus a bit more here? The NPR, the most respected independent media voice in America, has been called out as a CIA stooge. Maybe not willingly. An incompetent reporter, maybe that’s all.
Temple-Raston is very accomplished, superbly credentialed, and “forgot” about nothing in a rush to deadline: that’s nonsense. The npr Omsbudsman’s condescending patter (linked by a fellow poster in a more recent comment, above) clinches Glenn’s argument, imo. npr is about as liberal as the Tea Party is libertarian; it’s a suit they wear while promoting the corporate line for the target audience.
Washington Post’s Wesley Lowery reports on his Arrest in Ferguson
Must read: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-ferguson-washington-post-reporter-wesley-lowery-gives-account-of-his-arrest/2014/08/13/0fe25c0e-2359-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost
Excerpt:
That prom pic of Snowden and Hayden is really creepy. What was he thinking, that somehow he would be able to convince us two years later that he wasn’t a limited hangout “I love the government!” tool?
You can watch Ferguson livestreaming here: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930
They currently have 40K viewers, which according to Trevor Timm is 10% of CNN’s average viewership.
Thanks Mona. More eyes on it the better.
Martin Niemöller falls on deaf ears. This is lab work. Empire isn’t benign. It’s not a matter of if, but when, there’s political space for a boot on your face. ‘Progress’ isn’t linear. There’s no triumph. 30 years ain’t shit.
*loudspeaker* “this is your second final warning!” – po po
“use your big boy voice! use your outside voice!” – protestor
Ferguson cops are now arresting journalists, including a WaPo reporter who was slammed up against a soda machine in McDonald’s for not leaving as quickly as the goons thought he should. Statement from WaPo’s executive editor: https://twitter.com/charlie_savage/status/499738559314919424/photo/1
For those of you who are youngsters, you may think this rogue-cop fascism hasn’t been seen before in the U.S.
Chicago. Democratic National Convention, 1968.
The the book THE OUTLAW BANK: A Wild Ride Into the Secret Heart of BCCI by authors Jonathan Beaty & S.C. Gwynne one of the low tech methods used to defeat the NSA by the various players involved with this particular international crime syndicate that gave birth to Al-CIAda or as some prefer to spell it Al-Qaeda was basically the same technique that the US employed in WWII with the so called Navaho Indian Code Talkers. BCCI was one of the world largest criminal enterprises in its heyday. BCCI stands for The Bank of Credit & Commerce International. Within certain circles it was better known as the Bank of Crooks & Criminals International. BCCI was the creation of a lot of different players such as a certain brilliant Pakistani businessman, the ISI, and vast sums from the leading families and royal dynasties of the GCC countries located on the Arabian Peninsula. BCCI was the principle bank that William Casey used to trade Heroin for Arms in the fight against the USSR in Afghanistan. Other less notable banks such as the infamous Nugan-Hand Bank played a similar role but during the Vietnam War era.
What the close circle of field agents on the ground in Pakistan used was members of various small tribes whose spoken language was about as familiar to the translators at NSA as Marsian. In other words the operatives on the ground in Pakistan knew full well what the capabilities and deficits of NSA were at that time. Anyone even remotely familiar with the history of NSA knows that translating the vast bulk of intercepts taken from the ether has always been the major bottleneck. The Middle East is an area rich in such tribal diversity which was exploited very effectively by this international criminal syndicate that was the largest in the world at the time and included as such notables as A.Q. Kahn and many, many, many others. Its global reach was something that made it the go to outfit for all the major Western intel agencies as well as a host of other actors too numerous to innumerate. Eventually BCCI collapsed under the weight of too many news leaks, stories and such that caused the Arabian potentates to yank their cash. As I said previously Al-CIAda was formed as a sub-division of BCCI so certainly the low tech option has always probably played a necessary role for such groups as AQAP and the other affiliates. They are just spokes connected to a hub somewhere within the apparatus of the deep state. History IMHO will eventually prove this to be true.
The main reason NPR’s story is unverifiable is that it’s hard to know if it was the 1. actual data, 2. the report that Snowden had data, or 3. coincidence, that caused an upgrade terrorist software. Coincidence seems the most likely possibility to me.
“Coincidence seems the most likely possibility to me.
No. The main reason the NPR story is unverifiable is because they excluded the already known fact that terrorist’s have been “upgrading software” and methods to avoid detection for over a decade, and they have never stopped doing so.
That fact – which, along with the omission by NPR of any links to the supposed experts corroborating the story and the fact that the reporter knew they were funded by the CIA/Gov/Corporate interests made the story even more untenable as an unbiased, analytical news piece.
This wasn’t a news story, it was government/corporate propaganda, plain and simple.
*nods*
Beyond the compromised journalism, the actual data is ridiculously suspect. We’re talking about a “village of spooks” that virtually prints its own livelihood in a hermetically sealed panopticon. We’re to assume their epistemology isn’t perverse trash. Why? Because they’re patriots.
Re: My Spanx Made Me Do It
He is a crapflooding troll from the tarzie brigades who has been banned several times here under various monikers. Please ignore this incarnation’s spamming — Glenn will eventually be available to clean it out again.
tarzie, you’re just gonna get banned again. Is there some reason you are compelled to post with such volume that you need to be kicked out?
This appears to be an authentic Facebook post from the wife of Ferguson, Missouri’s Chief of Police: http://t.co/KOKqnVmrgD
It begins by claiming the blacks of Ferguson are “feral,” and continues in that vein.
You supported the Iraq invasion in 03 didn’t you?
THE LINK TO THE FACEBOOK POST IS BOGUS.
Mother Jones says so: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/anonymous-ferguson-police-killing-unarmed-michael-brown
The claim had come from Anonymous, which has since retracted it.
Sorry all for passing on misinformation!
That Anonymous video was super creepy. Anonymous scares me, I’m not a fan of vigilante justice and the idea of a large group of youngish, largely white males hiding behind computer screens deciding when I or anyone else should be “punished”, again, creeps me out. They have some redeeming features, from the little I know about them, but instigating change through fear and intimidation, with no checks and balances, seems like a bad combination of factors to me.
Agreed. But I don’t condemn low hanging fruit. It makes no sense to me.
I don’t condemn so much as I despair of all mankind and how we meet like with like in attempting to right wrongs. I am, however, convinced that we are slowly edging our way out of a pit of ignorance that we were hurled into through no fault of anyone, so I take heart in that.
It ain’t like meeting like though. They’re not like each other at all, are they? Power isn’t like weakness.
I didn’t know this until recently but it makes an obvious sort of sense, in the way that etymology reveals, that the root of “left” is weakness.
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2014/03/31/left-handedness-david-wolman/
Being in the center is like seeking the middle of a herd, fearful that at any moment it could stampede.
“Being in the center is like seeking the middle of a herd, fearful that at any moment it could stampede.”
Well, that’s certainly one take. As far as “they’re not like each other at all” – um, ok. You’re right, no shared humanity or anything. They might as well be from different planets. That is sarcasm. Of course they’re like each other. And apologies for being snappish, but this is a pet peeve, because I think you’re presenting another “This side is BAD” narrative. Yes, by all means, let’s just round up all the bad people and make sure all the good people are in positions of power, and then all of our problems will be solved. Or not. That thinking has gotten us just about nowhere, historically.
I am not a fan of blame, unless it’s for strictly functional or utilitarian purposes (or the result of my own temper, which is *totally different). And I don’t see a group to blame here. The citizens of Ferguson, which, the internet tells me, had an extremely high crime rate? How many causal factors go into creating that situation? Should we blame the police, who require just a high school diploma for a job that doesn’t pay very well, so that they can fulfill the “delegate a job to others that you don’t want to do yourself” requirements of modern society, probably witnessing crime after crime and being in dangerous situation after dangerous situation, with, I’ll take a wild guess, little in the budget toward trainings that would counteract the negative impact of that experience?
People – people, not good people, PEOPLE – deserve better than that, to the degree that we can afford to create healthier societies. Sometimes that degree is limited. We couldn’t go out and create a prosperous first world existence for the entire world tomorrow if we wanted to. But sometimes it means we need to reeavalute priorities, and I do hope we see more funding for social programs in this country in the next decade. The alternative is, I guess, finger pointing – everything would be better if this group wasn’t so inherently sucky. But I like to think more of the human race than that.
Bad/Good, whatever. You’re just saying power doesn’t exist. You want “crops without ploughing the ground”. MLK sure as hell blamed “the white moderate”. Said they were worse than the KKK. Worse at what? At being partners for peace. He was speaking the *humane* political truth.
“Everybody judges, all the time. Now, you got a problem with that, you’re living wrong.” – Cohle to Hart
I’ve never head you can’t get crops without ploughing the ground, is it like you can’t make an omelette without making eggs? If not, apologies, not understanding the reference. If so – this is what upsets me. After all the talk of human concern and magnanimous motives, these debates tend to come down to “I want *my team to win, I want you to feel empathy for *my team”. My team might be Israel, Palestine, the powerless, the powerful, the group with ‘better intentions’ or who is more ‘morally advanced’, etc., but it almost always comes down to appeals to empathize with one side over the other.
I am a relativist, so I respect anyone’s right to feel that way. Maybe teams duking it out is the natural order of things, in a Darwinian way. But for me personally, I want to hear solutions that offer something better, to the degree possible, for all the humans involved, not this side or that.
Sorry, that would be ‘breaking’, not ‘making’ eggs, above.
Fredrick Douglas. He goes on to say “power concedes nothing without a demand”. You seem to be saying, “make no demands, that just divides us”. What MLK called it ‘white moderacy’.
Change is *petitioned*. It never is not. That doesn’t mean violence. It means addressing the agency of violence. It means the weak addressing the powerful. Contrary to your frame, this is real relativism, in that it recognizes our agency is interdependent. It is a *structure of relations*. It does not mean false equivalence.
I’m not sure why you’re invoking MLK, as he was talking about white moderates in a very particular contextual situation – what parallels are you drawing? If it’s more “Hey, MLK was fantastic and he had a problem with white moderates in his day” I think it’s unfair to say “Ergo a white moderate is a bad thing to be henceforth, because MLK was once irritated with them”. But maybe you mean that as a more specific comparison.
As to your justification for change, I like you personally, Benjamin, but I don’t want your world. I don’t, I don’t want it. Relative? Yes. Subjective? Yes. But that’s my stance. I don’t want to throw anybody in front of a trolley. If you do, well, you pretty much know I’ll be the last one to stop you, so feel free to do things your way.
Benjamin, apologies, in rereading I feel like my last response sounds harsh. Of course I do believe in *some distinctions, otherwise, as I said earlier, I wouldn’t be for putting violent criminals in prison. There are utilitarian sacrifices to be made, at times. The problem I have with supporting this or that rebellious group is that if we supported every group who wanted to hurt people and tear up the whole system and start over again because they thought they knew better or had a particular issue, we’d be in a constant state of chaos that would cause more suffering by far. So yes, it’s unfair to groups that really *do have a better plan, like MLK, and if an idea really is better, hopefully in hindsight it will seem painfully self-evident. But that’s hindsight – before that, part of the process is that ‘new ideas’ have to go through a period of proving themselves, their adherence to the ideals they claim to support, and offer up some evidence / arguments that their way is better.
Also, a word of advice on dealing with mushy-hearted liberal moderate types. ;) Can’t speak for all of that subgroup, but as a rule we are far more responsive to guilt (and logic, when available) than other types of persuasion. Come off as an aggressive rebel and, while we may have fond memories of that guy we briefly dated in high school, we will quickly drop to the ground and play Gandhi in response to this hostility, except we might find lying on the ground pretty comfortable and just fall asleep there. Then if you want to go anywhere you’ll be tripping over us everywhere and it’ll be a mess. If you are going to resort to intimidation, at least be completely honest about it, in that your logic is “Do things my way or I am going to do something horrible to you.”, and we might respect your truthfulness in letting us actually weigh out the options without all the treacly utopian talky-talk. But in terms of taking a broader view, it is almost always better to frame it in the positive (these people are good and deserving and need more) than the negative.
Can anyone spot the corruptive influence of militarism in the situation in Missouri?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/ferguson-protest-swat-team_n_5676690.html
Thought experiment: What would happen if the Ferguson demonstrators showed up with the same weapons as the Bundy standoff demonstrators?
A brutal bit of practice in butchery for the ever-growing police-state is what would happen…. followed quickly by propagandistic demonization of the victims.
The bottom line is that the local/state police and SWAT should NOT be indistinguishable from the military – the average citizen should be able to immediately tell the difference.
They should be uniformed differently to distinguish that they ARE NOT the military, & we need a law nationwide to address this issue.
If they just call themselves police, they’re police?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
Who has heard of Stuart Levey, undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence with Treasury. You might think this man could keep ISIS from amassing millions of dollars, if that would benefit the USA.
That ISIS is a wealthy terror group must mean this man is not doing his job, or is he?
http://www.informationweek.com/government/leadership/image-gallery-whos-who-in-us-intelligence/d/d-id/1088806?page_number=19
That image is one of nineteen that accompany this article – second link in the article’s eighth paragraph.
http://www.techweb.com/news/232601019/cia-hunts-for-malware-in-binary-code.html
That name does ring a bell.
From Wikipedia: ”
In July 2010, he said that Anwar al-Awlaki “has proven that he is extraordinarily dangerous, committed to carrying out deadly attacks on Americans and others worldwide … [and] has involved himself in every aspect of the supply chain of terrorism—fundraising for terrorist groups, recruiting and training operatives, and planning and ordering attacks on innocents.”[9]”
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_A._Levey
More to follow.
Then there is this synopsis: “Meet David S. Cohen of Treasury and Stuart Levey of HSBC – Or Is It the Other Way Around”
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/03/meet-david-s-cohen-of-treasury-and-stuart-levey-of-hsbc-or-is-it-the-other-way-around.html
It appears to me overall, that he did a good job at serving the International Central Banking Cartel. Not only was he successful at diverting funds, ripping off the taxpayers, erroneously targeting CIA operatives and “terrorist” cells, but he also managed indirectly, to absolve the HSBC executives from criminal investigation in 2012 for laundering CIA drug cartel money.
He, David Cohen, and Timothy Geithner should be cited for committing multiple financial fraud crimes against the American people.
Glad to see you back on track seer.
Here’s an interesting edit that must TI must have just recently made at the end of the article in italics, because it wasn’t present when I posted my mega rant yesterday:
He must not have liked his experience at NPR very much!
Oh, I see, let’s not jump to conclusions about NPR’s motives and agenda, but surely, let’s make insinuations about Andrew Fishman.
That’s the Nate MO right there.
LOL @ Jose, it was a joke. You don’t see the humor in this guy’s first TI post being an indictment of his former employer and a colleague!?
Jose, this uber-defensive side of you is unbecoming.
Says one with the nick name Creep.
Look at some of that stuff from IQT or recorded future. Is there anyone dumb enough to take that crap seriously? Could there be anything that that screams “waste the taxpayer’s money, since there is so much available” more loudly or clearly? Who oversees this crap? Oh, wait, nobody. This is NATIONAL SECURITY. No effort is too stupid to be taken seriously.
Obama says the “T” word James Corbett
http://www.corbettreport.com/obama-says-the-t-word/
*Boots on the Ground: US Ground Troops Land on Iraq’s Mt. Sinjar *
“Over 100 Marines and Special Forces were deployed to the mountain today as part of a nascent plan to “organize an escape route” for Yazidis trapped on the mountaintop. A handful of British soldiers joined them. That’s not the end of the deployment, by any account, and officials are saying President Obama is considering an expansion of the ‘ground operation’ to create an evacuation corridor from the mountain to Kurdistan, with more troops likely to be involved.”
http://news.antiwar.com/2014/08/13/boots-on-the-ground-us-ground-troops-land-on-iraqs-mt-sinjar/
There are now over a thousand troops, I mean advisers, in Iraq. And 3000 waiting at the border.
But no boots on the ground, somehow.
Wearing flip-flops and sporting peaceful kill-sticks loaded with freedom bullets, no doubt.
These probably won’t be “just troops,” many will be JSOC similar to those in Jeremy’s movie.
Like Bond, “Licensed to kill…”
We again deploy “shooters” in the zombie oil war that’s Iraq.
Imagine the fun in Iran a few years from now when Hillary’s elected…
They’ve now decided there are too few stranded on the mountain to bother with, which is one of weirdest things they’ve said, but of course the over-a-thousand troops, I mean advisers, are still there, as well as the 3000 on the border. Plus the extreme fighters from the British SAS. And the airstrikes.
Bringing the creepiness back into Mission Creep: It’s Barack Obama!
I’m not always up on the latest and wondering – will more documents from Snowden be published and/or stories based on them?
Beyond the usual suspects can it be shown that people give a shit about their privacy. I’ve spoken to international lawyers who don’t even know their communications are compromised. The convenience of Facebook is more valuable to most people than privacy.
What is the Intercept without more documents – just another leftie blog site that reaches only to Democracy Now and the less than 2000 people who watch the show.
I’m not trying to fault anyone here Greenwald has done great work. But the story over a year old now is fading from the news and as far as I can tell there has been -0- positive change. It’s a pity for Snowden.
People are more aware than ever that the US government is substantially compromised – to the point of corruption – by corporatism, militarism, and statist and reactionary overreach, and people are more aware that the US media is largely complicit in covering up financial and militaristic criminal activity.
That much of Western society – much of the indoctrinated populaces of America and its Western allies as well as the establishments therein – choose to ignore this information and just continue to trust their establishments and ‘hope for the best’ as they have been propagandized into doing, is not the fault of The Intercept, Greenwald or Snowden or any other of the proverbial canaries in the coal mine.
Well, I guess I’m just frustrated and wish there would be some silver bullet document that would wake people up, foolish I know.
One point I keep returning to is obedience – people are responsible for their own well being in terms of civil and human rights. It just troubles me that so very few people care I just met with a young friend of mine getting a PhD at Harvard. I asked him a bright kid and his response was: really, I can’t be bothered with all that I have nothing to hide.
The point is who cares?
I’ve experienced the same frustration. Personally I think it’s because the mass media (influenced heavily by corporatism, militarism, etc.) portrays ‘looking out for number 1′ (and select others) as sensible and normal, and a healthy community is only as useful as it is rewarding. Also it says certain groups simply can’t be trusted, violence is acceptable sometimes, greed is understandable and revenge is not a moral crime. These lies are commonplace, and interfere with natural expression and awareness.
Plus the elite-provided theater of ‘GOP Vs Democrats’ panics each group into fighting the other, rather than focusing on the truly dangerous imbalance identified by Greenwald – that of establishment outsiders versus establishment insiders..
So I agree it is a pity, that this site is not to blame, and certainly like you I wish the truth were more impactful and better recieved.
Or better received even. One day I’ll learn to spell.
You mean Greenwald “speaking truth to power” isn’t “impactful!” Wow! And here I thought after a year of his “reporting,” the NSA would take its ball and go home. Who knew!
The Intercept will be reporting on many more Snowden documents. Glenn has stated that several times. So often that one shouldn’t need to be “always up on the latest” to be aware of that.
Democracy Now has 1,200 stations world wide. So one would not need to “always up on the latest” in order not to find themselves writing something as absurd as there are “less than 2000 people who watch the show.”
More on numbers: Greenwald has 394,000 followers on twitter. That would at least to some extent suggest that there are a bit more than 2,000 people who read The Intercept and, it might follow, who watch Democracy now, which has 391,000 followers on twitter.
Proving you do not know what a Libertarian is.
Greenwald has many anti-capitalist followers, including Marxists.
@spanx
True libertarians believe in the Non Aggression Principle.
This is not reactionary. It is a founding principle of the US.
Before I take the trouble of listing a few dozen of Greenwald’s followers, do you really mean to stand by the claim that his followers are “reactionary Libertarians?”
I take that as a “yes.” You realize it was silly beyond uttering to claim that Greenwald’s Twitter followers are “reactionary libertarians,” and don’t care to stand by the claim.
The reactionary libertarian contingent of the GG fan club has a membership of 2.5. Me, 02461 (or whatever the number is), and seer is halfway there. Liberals of different subgroups are most numerous: the combative/stupid group being the biggest (their monikers usually begin with “S”), and the “vocab liberals” come in a close second. These people usually have proper names in their monikers and usually know what they’re talking about (eloquently) on lots of issues but insist they are economists with nearly every breath (none of them are). Then you have your self righteous liberals, desperately trying to be like Glenn but missing the key ingredient (intellectual prowess). These people come and go with the wind; no reason to get to know them. Finally, you have trolls. The one thing that unites us all is that each and every one of us is the smartest person here. Just ask us!
I should have noted, since the above is a response to mona, that mona is in a (superb) group all her own. There are at least three monas, and I won’t believe otherwise until I see with my own eyes that there are only two.
Both NPR and PBS have been corporate toadies for the past two decades.
NPR doesn’t want to upset Big Brother into cutting off its funding. That’s why sites like this are more valuable.
NPR = National Propaganda Radio
Meanwhile, My Spanx Made Me Do It orders hamburgers and fries from his favorite capitalist fast food joint.
In order to inform American readers, it’s a shame we have to spend so much time, energy and financial resources correcting existing media companies in this country. A good rule of thumb is knowing that any publicly owned newspaper is accountable to shareholder first and foremost. This immediately will tell you 85% of what you read, watch or listen to is conflicted with reporting facts or creating shareholder value. If the story will hurt investors or advertisers, then a media company will look the other way.
In this environment, it’s refreshing to read First Look and Glenn Greenwald’s material. He continues to share his passion to reporting the news, not appeasing those who will censure, fire, and destroy anybody who exploits their secrets. We need hundreds more just like him to clean up this mess.
Well it would seem if they were using cell phones to target drones and minority kids then those groups would have already by now noticed. ….. That rock that exploded and those conversations at parties and all that was being picked up or used in cases against people so what was their cloak of invisibility going to last forever…… What they are most cross about is all their honey pots that they were trying to catch people with are now encountering the cynical and paranoid as is the case with societies full of goons and snitches and secret courts with secret laws. Also once all the manipulation is exposed then people might start asking questions about the reality versus the propaganda…. I hope some of these guys remember which is which when deconstructing it all…. It does sort of make one start to cluck when one spends anytime thinking about it. The digital landscape seems to be riddled with landmines for the unsuspecting…. That is not good for lovers and haters and academics and human rights workers and protesters and all the others that might get caught unwittingly in one of these endless guy’s traps. They weakened the global systems not knowing who in the end would use all of these back doors including as it turned out their own…..
It looks like Snowden is fucking the flag in that Wired cover. The pic of him with Hayden is even more disgusting if such a thing is possible. This guy was limited hangout all the way. No question about it.
New Snowden article from Wired.
http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/#ch-1
The picture of Snowden with Mike Hayden is so surreal
@ Nate:
The wired article was well worth reading.
Thanks for posting that link.
No problem Lyra1!
My thanks for that link also, Nate.
Great reading it was, indeed.
The way Greenwald has been pressed to write this article because of this NPR/CIA report rather smacks of the line of the Nixon movie where Nixon says “Give them something to deny.” I looked for this piece because the Democracy Now video link went down just as GG was nailing his side of the story… GLENN GREENWALD: Yeah. Well, first of all, all this report said is that the Snowden reporting began in June of 2013, and then in September and December, al-Qaeda had different encryption programs. But the most basic logical premise teaches us that just because event A preceded event B doesn’t mean that event A caused event B. That isn’t evidence of causation. The reality is, is that you can go back to 2001 and find all kind of news stories every year describing the efforts of al-Qaeda to develop sophisticated and advanced forms of encryption. They’ve known forever that the U.S. government wants to electronically surveil their communications. They’ve been developing encryption for many, many years before the Snowden stories ever began. And in August of 2013, the U.S. government, the Obama administration went to the media, to McClatchy and to The Daily Beast, and they bragged about how they had intercepted a conference call between al-Qaeda leaders, in which al-Qaeda leaders were planning to attack U.S. embassies. And according to The New York Times, that leak, that came from the government, where they revealed they had—[ line goes down]
If al Qaeda is composed of freedom fighters wouldn’t we want them to know as much as possible about what the NSA is doing to kill or capture them and to have the best encryption possible so that NSA knows as little as possible about their plans? Why is there so little curiosity and debate about where ‘terrorists’ come from and what they hope to accomplish? If their goal is freedom and self determination we can debate their methods but shouldn’t their motives at least be acknowledged? Shouldn’t we be able and willing to ask why the US isn’t helping them accomplish these goals instead of supporting the corrupt regimes they are trying to depose?
Glenn,
I just heard your DemocracyNow piece. As in this article, you mentioned there also, the “causation” logic. I thought, after listening to it, that some people might still think, “just because it doesn’t mean A caused B, also doesn’t mean that A DIDN’T cause B. ” There is another argument you should add. The argument that it takes most software companies years to develop upgrades. It is unlikely, almost impossible, that AQ is so efficient, it saw Snowden and then in 3 months, had produced functional upgrades to their encryption. It is more likely that it could only have been the product of work that extended far beyond the 3 months that DTR and Recorded Future allege.
Cheers.
Great piece here! Wow! NRP and more specifically this Temple-Raston should be ashamed of their reporting, if you can even call it that. I have suspected for a while that NPR was touting pro establishment propaganda and calling it journalism but what I am more surprised about is how fooled I was before that point. I actually considered donating to NPR because I gobbled up their reporting as fact and thought it an awesome tool for the public to use to educate themselves about what the government was doing. Boy how wrong I was. Maybe if you only want to hear government rhetoric. Very disappointed with NPR at this point, makes me feel like a paranoid conspiracy theorist because I question whatever I am hearing and can never trust the mainstream media. Apparently for good reason.
wow! check out all these other journalists that are writing all these pieces, that are contributing to changes in policy in a positive way. Wow look, there’s another journalist who just wrote an article and there was a change in policy and we went to war and killed a bunch of people. Oh look, stupid Glenn Greenwald, he just wrote another piece on how that last war was based on a lie, but there will now be no change in policy. Wow. stupid, stupid, useless Glenn Greenwald. All those other journalists rock.
Please excuse me, this is off topic, but necessary.
suave:
I had hoped, by now, to find in you more than a mere remnant of the innate integrity each human being begins his life on earth possessing. But is is apparent to me that neither guilt nor remorse have filtered through your conscience to your heart and from there to your mind.
I’ve considered that painful experiences of cruelty inflicted upon you may have led you to inure yourself to your own emotional response to cruelty, resulting in your closing off access to emotions including remorse and empathy and leaving you open to indulging your own urge to cruelty. You may have been made to feel small and lacking in value, in which case I can readily understand how, to elevate your status in the eyes of others, you could rationalize chosing to inflict cruelty on me in a quid pro quo arrangement with another person who offered you elevated status. I don’t believe you came up with your deceptive operation of your own accord. But, I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time I have given someone more credit for honor than he deserved.
If I were to forgive you so as to express my compassion for your human frailty, I’d be doing you a disservice. Only your own recognition of right and wrong, your admission, at least to yourself, of your crime, and your self-forgiveness can change you. Only you can know why you did what you did. Only you can feel remorse over your deception and the harm it has done. Only you can know the inauthenticity of your illicitly gained status, and only you will know the undercutting dissatisfaction it will eventually produce.
But the harm you did is the reason I now raise the subject of your crime against me, because it has now extended beyond my personal sphere to affect someone else. The fact of your cruelty’s broadening harm makes it imperative that I address it. I am sufficiently secure in self-respect to not need assurances from a host of others as to the value of my person, the honesty of my motivations, or the quality of my devotion to goodness and liberty as neither one can exist without the other, but that another person’s well-being may be negatively impacted by your crime, places me in the position of having to speak up to protect that person’s best interests. Those interests may include my providing help s/he will need in the near future, help that I am grateful to be able to provide, but which is now at risk due to your perfidy.
That should summarize my position clearly. Additionally I’ll tell you that hypocrisy is a defense mechanism resident in the human psyche to protect the false ego from reality and truth. You have it bad Donger, Suave, Rico and only you can successfully wrestle your hypocrisies and deceits to the mat, no one else. So, to aid you to the best of my ability, I will hold open the image of you in which your own self-respect is honestly enhanced by your fluid responses to the plaintive urgings of the better angels of your miserable human nature, such that your free will becomes an instrument that increases your growth and evolution from the poor human you are, into your meaningful humanity, rich with the authenticity of Menschlichkeit. Until then you know, and I am unfortunate to have learned, you are a vile, dishonest fraud.
What the fuck is wrong with you? You just wrote five paragraphs in the comment section that had nothing to do whatsoever with what this article is about. Are you mental?
Can you read? “Please excuse me, this is off topic, but necessary.”
Are you capable of doing anything other than gush with projections?
@ seer:
You are obviously upset by something that “suave” posted in the comments section on one of the TI articles; although, I have no knowledge regarding the specifics of such a comment nor do I want to. The Intercept comment threads can be particularly brutal and challenging because of the high trolling activity, self-appointed subject matter experts, and disgruntled journalists – as you know.
This type of post is uncharacteristic of your past posts so I wanted you to know that I wish you the best outcome in resolving the conflict, whatever that might be. You have always been gracious and thoughtful in responding to others in TI comments which, is truly unique and commendable. The world could use more of that seer. Hoping for the best.
Do you have to broadcast your lover’s quarrel on a political site???
“I am unfortunate to have learned, you are a vile, dishonest fraud.” I said that to my girlfriend too. Then I learned I was actually just describing myself.
Thank you for this article. NPR has been the Pentagon voice for over 30 years.
Unfortunately, I feel that the national security state is here for the long term , directed by the political class who of course are simply the mouthpiece for corporations and the judeo-christian mind set.
Woe to those who fall into its spell,again!
Here is the statement from NPR responding to TI’s analysis and referencing Raston’s initial article:
What if al Qaeda is composed of freedom fighters and the US is an hegemonic, imperialist supporter of corrupt regimes that oppress their citizenry and sell their country’s natural resources to benefit foreign corporations and line their own pockets. Would that make any difference in the determination that the piece was measured and fair?
That would make it completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
So nothing about why they concealed the conflicts of interest? That’s the key part of the take-down, so if it remains unaddressed, we can only conclude they are unable to explain it away. As far as the report’s analytic and scientific validity, it merits much skepticism and they clearly did a poor job of presenting that side of the argument. It reminds me of theories about increases in the prevalence of some disease, and how they correlate to basically anything that has experienced growth in the modern world (e.g. cell phones, TV viewing, vaccines, etc.)
Even if true, those findings carry little information of interest. I’m pretty sure that chatter about encryption increased post-Snowden in the general population, as did related software development. Why wouldn’t that also be the case in Al-Qaeda circles?
Yep, NPR didn’t address that aspect for some reason. Pretty dumb move IMO.
However, their lack of response does not mean there is an actual conflict of interest. As I pointed out in my lengthy response that you decided not to read, there are some serious information gaps necessary to validate such a claim. For example, are there still In-Q-Tel members on the Board of Directors and do they a role that dictates the direction of the company (i.e. voting board member)? Also, you’d have to assess the company’s financial dependence on In-Q-Tel. Was the funding a one-time thing or continuous? What percent of the company’s capital investment and continuing investment (if any) did/does In-Q-Tel account for? You’d also be best served by proving that In-Q-Tel is not independent of the CIA, which they supposedly are in accordance with their charter.
In the absence of such evidence, why not just refute the actual report!? Glenn did a poor job and unconvincing effort to do so.
Presenting what side of the argument?
I think they properly conveyed their report’s results. They described it as “circumstantial” and as a “hypothesis.” I mean, what specifically should they also have done?
I agree that the information gleaned is no bombshell, but Glenn’s furious retort shows he feels different.
I would fully expect AQ to adjust its tech upgrade schedule based on Snowden’s revelations. People like Stewart Baker have the right to use that as a cudgel to beat Snowden over the head all they want, but based on the Snowden leaks published thus far, a strong argument can be made that the benefit of informing Americans of the NSA’s efforts outweighs the risks associated with AQ finding out in the process. NSA can whine all they want and use this to deflect criticism, but their overt secrecy and bending of the rules helped create this ordeal.
The ombudsman of NPR wrote on twitter: “Gotten a lot of feedback re: the Intercept article. Am investigating.”
That was followed by a tweet from Jay Rosen: “Thanks, Edward. Please pay attention to how the response from @NPR utterly evades the main issue: CIA funding of the firm.”
I agree that NPR shouldn’t have evaded the “CIA funding” part.
Do you know if the above press release is the follow up to the ombudsman’s comment, or is separate? If separate, I look very forward to what that yields.
I’m also waiting for Recorded Future to say something…
The press release is previous to the ombudsman’s comment. The ombudsman won’t make or sanction a press release. If he chooses to post anything beyond that twitter exchange, which it seems that he almost certainly will, he will post his own stand alone article.
Thanks Kitt, I realized that like 10 seconds after I posted (due to Jay’s comment which spells that out). DOH!
Again, “It also post a a nested response” should have read “It also failed to post as a nested response.”
Is anyone else experiencing these symptoms?
Meanwhile, a sidebar over at the business desk:
http://www.sfgate.com/business/bottomline/article/Oil-a-key-motive-for-U-S-air-strikes-in-Iraq-5684758.php
At least somebody isn’t doing laundry.
Would the US be bombing merely for the goal of rescuing the Yazidis I wonder. Most likely not. The rhetoric about protecting American personnel stationed in Erbil really means protecting American oil companies methinks.
Yes, and it’s an old reason. Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler said in 1933, “The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. ”
http://fas.org/man/smedley.htm
We have had this conversation before on other threads.
War is indeed a racket to acquire land and land resources for the express profit of the few (elite) at the expense of the rest of humanity.
quote”The rhetoric about protecting American personnel stationed in Erbil really means protecting American oil companies methinks.”unquote
me thinks it’s CIA’s new and improved staging facility…
http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2024050272_usiraqbasexml.html
@ chronicle:
Nice link.
It is both. The objective is oil and it must be continually secured with maximum output by CIA intelligence and mercenary forces.
Good stuff Coram. Here’s the source article by Steve Coll: http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/oil-erbil
I suggest checking it out. Coll is a Pulitzer Prize Winner (Ghost Wars) and IMO a hell of a journalist.
Absolutely! No doubt about it.
Same story with maps at this link:
“The Roots of the Iraq and Syria Wars Go Back More than 60 Years”
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/roots-iraq-war-plantedplanned-1948.htm
can we all say State Media. That is what we call other media that is a mouth piece for other countries. NPR=National Propaganda Report
Wow how original, you must be proud.
I bet big data firm can link Snowden’s links to ALL behavior, especially those critical of this 1970’s rerun, YGBSM!
Big data…Big data…talk about links, hot…my dog meta!
For NPR to totally omit that Recorded Future is funded by the Intelligence Agencies is the highest form of journalistic malpractice.
Contact the NPR ombudsman here: http://help.npr.org/npr/includes/customer/npr/custforms/contactus.aspx
And be nice and polite, please, so NPR can’t run a flak-cover story on how obnoxious Greenwald supporters are. :)
Thank you Doug.
Less then 2% of the Snowden Documents published and we get stories about NPR. Publish or let someone else.
Yeah, but reporting on NPR’s propagandist “journalism” helps to further degrade what credibility (if any) the backers of the NSA’s mass warrantless spying had left. It helps the situation in the long-term. Glenn Greenwald and co. could report on half of the documents, but it wouldn’t matter if the Establishment was able to use its propaganda to turn a vast majority of people against Snowden and what little credible journalism remains in this country.
The facts are with Snowden and journalists like Greenwald, but they still need to win in the Court of Public Opinion.
And my thanks to the unknown (to me) but hopefully up and coming Nadine Chalak as well.
Beware. We are just in the early days of this type of surveillance that crushes freedoms, especially freedom of thought and action: the very early days. It is getting worse by the minute as high tech advances and is used by governments every, even in the brutal and otherwise primitive Islamic State, to keep tabs on freedom loving people, and particularly in technologically advanced states like America, Russia, the UK and Europe, India, China, Israel, and so on.
PS: You know that reading this comment has been noticed by those you should fear.
That’s the international price of new technologies — less and fewer freedoms, no matter where you live, whether America, China, Russia, India, Israel, everywhere, probably even including the fast expanding Islamic State. And worldwide we are still in the early stages. It will get worse, ever so worse, as technology improves around the world. Worse. Not a single smart phone, computer, etc., is immune from surveillance.
Add to that that what was once considered ordinary non-electronic spying by tens of thousands actual human spies and informants is also still around in order to counteract the thoughts and actions of people who refrain from using technology gadgets to communicate with each other. No wonder snail mail postal systems everywhere are being phased out — too hard to control the messaging.
PS. This comment, like yours, has been collected by those we should fear.
NPR has long been a lap dog for the US intelligence community. It makes me wonder, in what roundabout manner NPR is being funded by the CIA.
I agree with liepiglicons on one issue alone. NPR should be defunded. They interview the most disgusting GOP’ers around and never challenge them with facts. NPR is beyond useless. There is never any useful information there, and they have hours of useless fluff on there. I ripped the radio out of my truck because AM and FM are completely useless. We should re allocate those RF bands for something useful.
Well, there’s this:
excerpted from Pacifica’s Uprising Radio program site, 9/22/2010 – The Right Hook:
“Fans of the internets may remember last summer when talk of cyber-terrorism made it into the mainstream media. The blog Techdirt noted that former Vice Admiral of the National Security Agency Michael McConnell made the media rounds in order to stoke general panic about the threat of hacking and cyber-attacks. McConnell talked about the “Attribution Problem” which is not knowing where an attack is coming from or who is attacking a network. McConnell’s fix for the Attribution Problem is to remove net users’ anonymity. The problem with removing anonymity is that it exposes dissidents and whistleblowers fighting government and corporate oppression. McConnell was interviewed by NPR on this topic and quoted without being challenged. NPR has an attribution problem of its own however, and did not attribute to McConnell his most current title, Senior Vice President of government contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. As McConnell was hyping the cyber-terror threat, Booz Allen was securing government contracts worth approximately $400 Million. And in June, technology blog Hillicon Valley reported that Booz Allen would attempt to raise an additional $300 Million via an Initial Public Offering. But Booz Allen does know how to spread the wealth. It underwrites public media. Booz Allen is now one of the newest underwriters for an organization formerly known as National Public Radio. – See more at: http://uprisingradio.org/home/2010/09/22/the-right-hook-092210/#sthash.Pb70Usr2.dpuf “
I think the reason people are having difficulty digesting the never ending disclosures of media/government collusion is that it is presented in the context of the fraudulent ‘war on terror’ story. It is the old buy the premise/buy the bit idea used by standup comics. Until Glenn is brave enough to use his disclosures to discredit the entire concept of ‘terrorists’ as it is used by government and the MSM I’m not sure how much can be accomplished. I keep asking one simple question but can never get an answer…why does the US (if it is seeking to spread freedom and democracy) continue to support corrupt, illegitimate regimes with billions of dollars in money and weapons instead of the people oppressed by these regimes. The answer of course is ‘stability’ which is just another way of saying that we want to maintain the status quo because it benefits our ‘national interests’, if not are supposed national principles. Once you reveal that the ‘war on terror’ is a self serving paradigm that has very little to do with public safety, and everything to do with power and control, the defenders of the surveillance/propaganda state lose all credibility. Glenn presumably refuses to ‘go there’ because he then would be labeled a crackpot and be denied access to mainstream forums. He, Barton Gellman, Jeremy Scahill etc. are all doing good reporting but by being unwilling to tie it into this larger context they give room to the opposition to make a creditable argument. It may be a mere fig leaf but that is all a lazy, cowardly public needs to rationalize falling back to their natural state of apathy. Please take the extra step and connect the dots Glenn. It may not be traditional ‘journalism’ but isn’t that the whole idea?
I obviously meant credible NOT “creditable”.
NPR and PBS way back in the old days when they were a public service to the American people would have been all over this story. But now it is just “conspiracy theory” and they are ridiculed by the whole media, just as the undeniable facts of 911 are consciously criminally ignored. So – here is the story, on video, of a bunch of good American citizens in Shasta County, CA trying to get at the truth.
Shasta County Board of Supervisors
Hearing on Chemtrails and Geoengineering July 15, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXhFeoCUWg
REmember people……………….
“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
–- Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
This has always been true. Evil can only triumph when good people do nothing.
What can you do right now?
BTW and FYI, in regards to the Youtube video provided above concerning the Shasta County Board of Supervisors
Hearing on Chemtrails and Geoengineering July 15, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXhFeoCUWg
The views, as of this writing, on this video shows 363 views since 7/15/14.
I believe this view count has been suppressed by Youtube.
This video has been forwarded to 1,000’s of people all over the planet.
There are other documented cases where the video views have been inflated by Youtube where the message supports the agenda of the so-called 1% elite.
Mea Culpa, my fault, above I said that a Youtube video view count was suppressed. I recently found other postings of this video with total views of over 10,000 views, which makes more sense. I should have checked that first. :-(
David,
Thank you for this information, I had no idea Youtube suppresses or inflate the statistic abut viewers. I should have but didn’t; thank you again.
Great interview this morning, Glenn, even with hiccups and dogs. You should hear mine when someone’s at the door.
Amy’s Democracy NOW! has become a morning ritual, whenever possible.
Thank you and all at TI for continuing to connect the dots.
Interview: (@40:40)
http://www.democracynow.org/
..
Mr. Greenwald.. Nice to observe that the button-down collars are still currently on hiatus. Keep on w/ the keeping on!
Thanks for the assist, my friend.
Transcripts not yet available:
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/13/glenn_greenwald_criticizes_npr_for_relying
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/13/glenn_greenwald_us_intel_agencies_provide
I, too, loved the barking dogs. (:
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/13/glenn_greenwald_criticizes_npr_for_relying
Good link and good interview. Glenn does re-emphasize the point that, to justify military force, one cites humanitarian reasons, is an old, tired and very contradictory excuse. And some pundits won’t be that crass — see my link, further on, to a business article that frankly says that our Iraq intervention is about protecting oil sites in Irbil and elsewhere.
I suppose using bombs and missiles could be a form of exploratory drilling, but that’s the only happy face you could put on that. It’s still less mealy-mouthed than the humanitarian excuse, however.
Great story (again) Glenn. Any word on the effectiveness of Faraday bags for e-devices?
This story does undermine its own premise somewhat, by revealing that GCHQ’s operational procedures have been cribbed from the Jihadist’s Manual. I know the GCHQ will argue that just because the JM preceded their manual, does not prove they copied it. But no one will buy that argument. I wrote a play called Hamlet, which was almost identical to the one by Shakespeare, which I’d never read. Despite my protests that it was a completely independent intellectual effort, everyone, without the slightest bit of proof, insisted that I must have copied it.
So having dispensed with GCHQ’s denial, imagine the tactical advantage this information provides to the Jihadists. In any situation, confronted with the question of what the GCHQ will do, they can simply respond – well, what does our manual say? In addition, they could start incorporating flaws into their procedures, which they could then exploit when the GCHQ copied them. So I certainly hope the authors of this piece carefully weighed this potential harm against the dubious benefit of revealing that NPR reporters are government propagandists. Anyone with any intelligence already knew this, and those without any intelligence will continue to deny it, even when presented with the evidence. So the story really doesn’t change anything, while yielding significant benefits to the Jihadists.
>”I wrote a play called Hamlet,”
I read that! It was about a little piglet who grew up to be a big ham.
*it sounded like plagiarism … but it probably wasn’t.
ps. if you need me, I will call you. (h/t GCHQ)
“This story does undermine its own premise somewhat, by revealing that GCHQ’s operational procedures have been cribbed from the Jihadist’s Manual.”
The story does no such thing. It merely points out that AQ had an advanced understanding of many of the practices revealed in the Snowden documents well before 2011. So advanced in fact that their internal security protocol was already similar to the GCHQ’s.
I am in no way impugning the work of the estimable Gentlemen’s Club HeadQuarters; please don’t take offense. Most of my career, I stole shamelessly from the work of others. Sure, technically it is plagiarism, but if you dress it up a bit, no one will know. So there’s no use re-inventing the wheel and all that; it’s just a matter of practicality and efficiency.
“This story does undermine its own premise somewhat, by revealing that GCHQ’s operational procedures have been cribbed from the Jihadist’s Manual.”
Yes Mr. Mussolini, the collective states are faltering in their respective publications departments. Shameful
that the GCHQ should resort to plagiarism of the Jihadist manuals. Even the executive and legislative branches of the US Government are now having great difficulty in pinpointing and annihilating terrorist groups as evidenced by this article: “US Just Not Sure Who To Bomb In The Middle East Anymore”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39397.htm
I know the US takes great pride on being able to select bombing targets by scanning metadata for suspicious keywords. But it was inevitable, Snowden or no Snowden, that the targets would eventually catch on and stop using those keywords. I acknowledge that being left in the dark, with no indication of who to target, is a frightening feeling. One natural response is simply to target everybody – but this is generally counter productive. At moments such as this, I would advise the US to turn to its allies in the region; Israel and Saudi Arabia. They have local knowledge and would be more than happy to provide a list of suitable targets. That is what friends are for.
” I would advise the US to turn to its allies in the region; Israel and Saudi Arabia.”
Yes…this is sage advice. After all, both Israel and Saudi Arabia have been instrumental in obtaining and securing the true objective behind the Middle-Eastern conflicts instigated by the United States. Which is noted here:
“The Roots of the Iraq and Syria Wars Go Back More than 60 Years:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/roots-iraq-war-plantedplanned-1948.html
I do hope that the President does not loose his patience with his massive security apparatus and pursue the practice of bombing all potential “terrorists” as this would be, as you noted, counterproductive. After all…if they can not write concise instructional manuals, perhaps the metadata that the US agencies have collected is not precise enough to achieve the intended targets.
In any case, your input into these matters of security is greatly appreciated.
You are as flamboyantly vile as your nom de keyboard.
I adore you. As I love truffles, escargots, and many other odiferous decomposers and detritivores, so do I love you. Like the rotted shrimp paste that informs Indonesian cuisine, you bring great flavor to all our discussions. Keep it up please.
This revelation may very well harm national interests, Duce, because now the jihadis might be able to bring a copyright lawsuit in a UK, US or international court, intellectual properties and all that. At the least, GCHQ might have to pay, er, royalties.
It’s not that farfetched. Journalist Alan Cranston — much later, a US Senator from California — decided that an authorized US edition of Mein Kampf wasn’t the true translation, and published one of his own. Hitler’s publisher sued in US court and won.
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-02-14/news/mn-42699_1_mein-kampf
Great moments in jurisprudence, and you are there.
@ coram nobis:
Very interesting.
It would appear, that despite the fact that he lost his suit, there is a silver-lining in the fact that Mr. Cranston was able to achieve a new career in US politics with all of the knowledge that he gained from Adolf Hitler’s literary work. Perhaps we are seeing some practical application of that legacy today.
ot:
-seer
“If this isn’t snark ;( …well, I’ll assume it is – for sanity’s sake, \o/ .”
I doubt sanity is all that accessible to you, hence your confusion. In case you don’t know, the root of sanity is sanus – Latin for healthy. In my book, people like you who enjoy deceit and cruelty are not healthy.
Glenn, I’m a huge supporter, but I gotta say, you have to lay off on the “correlation is not causation” stuff. It’s not a defensible position in the long term.
Of COURSE Snowden’s revelations are going to help terrorists calibrate their cryptographic efforts – any kind of information will help them do that. Like you noted, deliberate CIA leaks or improvements in open-source crypto products also help them. It’s obvious and undeniable that the more information the public has at its disposal about how the CIA spies, the better they can defend themselves from it, and that includes terrorists.
The real issue, which you hint at but too obliquely, is that ultimately, we need to accept the fact that open debates on issues like surveillance, torture, and even defence policy in general will be of some help to terrorists. (it’s absolutely true that a hand-wringing internal debate on foreign wars emboldens terrorists. Terrorists feed on low morale and internal divisions in their enemies).
We need to accept that fact, and even accept that the Snowden leaks may eventually mean someone dies, indirectly, as a result. That doesn’t mean the leaks shouldn’t have happened. Terrorism is a tiny, tiny, TINY danger for the American people. It’s frankly laughably trivial compared to basically every other problem affecting that country. The consistent erosion of accountability and transparency is FAR more important.
I really think you need to stop trying to defend the notion that Snowden’s leaks have not in any way materially helped terrorists – it’s really besides the point!
I could not agree more,
For all the brilliant reporting The Intercept gave us, I fail to see the point of the article. Snowden’s leaks unveiled the unbelievable electronic surveillance capabilities of the US, wich of course was going to lead to an adaptation by terrorist groups around the world.
What is ridiculous in NPR report is not the causality argument, it’s the very obvious spin given to Snowden’s whistleblowing. Snowden leaks attracted worldwide attention to Internet surveillance, so of course some wanabee jihadist is going to dl Tor in order to protect himself. What’s alarming is that NPR’s spinning it to make it more important than the additionnal awereness given to the million of law-abiding citizens who also were under surveillance.
You can squabble about details (sorry Glenn, you’re a bit squabbling), but the NPR article was just another attempt to add weight to that THREAT that is supposed to make us relinquish our personnal rights. I find it more easy to compare to the “threat” on Israelis justifying the Gaza intervention than anything else…
I get your point. We can’t forget about the big picture items, like dragnet surveillance and erosion of civil liberties. But NPR deserves to be called out on it’s bs, and in this case, GG is the best man for the job. NPR has millions of trusting listeners who rely on it for news. Many of those listeners are probably also people who are against illegal government surveillance, but they need to be adequately informed. If this article helps NPR do a better job or their listeners be more skeptical, then it’s worth it.
I thought Glenn’s subject was primarily to underscore lousy reporting by NPR, as their reporter was presenting shady facts from biased sources. That is enough of a story and for my money NPR has been going downhill for a long time. As the to the general discussion without facts about whether or not “terrorists” use all information available likely so , but to what end we don’t really know on a factual basis.
Glenn talked extensively in this article about how you couldn’t prove definitively that Snowden’s revelations were helpful to terrorists, presumably because he’s scared that conceding that point will somehow settle the debate, like “If just ONE terrorist downloaded Tor because of the Snowden leaks, then the discussion is over, Snowden gets executed and we all have to surrender our DNA to the NSA”.
When did American supporters of democracies become such cowards? Like supporting fundamental democratic rights, checks, and balances is not worth it if just one person gets killed as a result. If this is the case, the American people don’t deserve the past blood that was shed for their rights.
Insofar as encryption, PGP included, I don’t trust any of it. All that is needed to defeat encryption is a key-log program infecting your computer, recording what you type prior to (bypassing) encryption and that’s it, you’ve been defeated. And you can be certain there is constant attention given to developing ever more sophisticated means to clandestinely accomplish this.
And it is important to understand intelligence agencies mentality; it is based on a value of how things ‘balance’ or ‘trade-offs’ .. in effect there is a value judgment under constant review when there has been a successful penetration of a target. In the case of a penetrated/compromised foreign agent (or these days, one would presume a whistle-blower/journalist relationship), so long as information gained outweighs information compromised (the value judgment), the intelligence agencies will allow the parties to pursue their business unmolested (other than soaking up whatever information they can develop from the monitoring.)
My automatic assumption is, if there is anything in my database the NSA wants, they’ve got it. Consequently, there is information between my ears that has never been entered into a computer, let alone sent via an email. As for leaking securely, I’ve thought this through, what would be necessary and came up with a method:
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/06/07/above-top-secret-or-how-not-to-leak/
^ The link is to my ‘how to assemble your own leak platform’ to avoid detection for whistle-blowers (if only because I like to educate with a bit of substantive information in this forum.)
On the oddity side, as a former racing pigeon enthusiast with some of the better birds (competitive in China, South Africa and Mexico, not only the USA prior to the ‘bird flu’ embargo), among other things encountered, it was interesting to notice (online) a fatwa authorizing keeping pigeons for communications purposes. In this day and age, what the western nations had been using for a very long time (since the crusaders had discovered Saladin employing the method) has seen upgraded potential by the nature of technology; these days a hawk wary, reliable pigeon can easily deliver a gigabyte of sensitive information 400 miles in a day. Furthermore, this method could be developed to a ‘Pony Express’ model. If the computer on either end is permanently offline, security wouldn’t get much better than this. So much for the NSA defeating al-Qaida (as I wonder how much of the online al-Qaida cyber-security information is actually disinformation, maybe the NSA people reading here will pull their heads out of the place where the sun never shines and wake up to this possibility, or one can always hope.)
And for those who prefer satire:
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/07/15/not-my-last-tango-in-paris/
^ The NSA and cyanide suppositories-
quote”And for those who prefer satire:”unquote
And here I thought Benito might be the Intercepts master of satire. My bad.
Holy mother of material support. Now you’ve done it.
quote”…..maybe the NSA people reading here will pull their heads out of the place where the sun never shines and wake up to this possibility, or one can always hope.)”unquote
Umm.. speaking of keeping things between your ears..haha.
hmmmm, shades of Petraeus’ statement below…
“I’ve found that our technical capabilities often far exceed what you see in Tom Cruise films,..”unquote Yeah, hollywood’s got nothin up on the CIA alright.
“give us time…we just might make a pigeon drone”.
RoboBeesneez..
‘Learning how nature creates superior sensors could lead to lighter, smarter drones. And as that happens, their range of applications will grow. Guiler and Vaneck plan to sell the InstantEye to the military and law enforcement. The British Forces have recently begun using a microdrone, a hand-launched helicopter called the Black Hornet, to scout for insurgents in Afghanistan..’
http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/rise-insect-drones
that was my point, albeit tongue in cheek.
Dear writer,I really apreciate your article but pls remember that not everybody(including me) is a english speaking reader… use a simpler language and pls specify all acronims or create a archive of them with a brief history and duties….I really would like to understand and share…thanks againfor your work.A.
From the article @:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2013/06/14/in-q-tel-glimpse-inside-cias-venture-capital-arm/
“I’ve found that our technical capabilities often far exceed what you see in Tom Cruise films,” former CIA Director David Petraeus said in a March 2012 speech at the IQT CEO Summit. “But there are a few feats he can accomplish in the movies that we can’t; we haven’t figured out, for example, how to change an individual’s fingerprints or eyeballs just yet — but give us time.”
Say’s #Mr. Can’t Keep a Secret before he is bestowed with 2012’s Stupidest Dickwad on the Planet award.
geeezus..you can;t make this shit up.
Meanwhile, the Best Gobbledygook of the Year award has been bestowed on NPR’s Office of Obfuscation and Doublespeak for their tireless devotion to the art of confusing the public with meaningless gobbedygook, asinine euphemisms and bald faced lies masquerading as truth as evidenced in the construction of the August 1, NPR’s Morning Edition’s broadcast. Congratulations.
Nate – good reasoning. Among other things, out here in Silicon Valley it’s well known that In-Q-Tel never take board seats and accordingly don’t have voting influence on companies they have relationships with. Significant difference. They may have board observation rights, but that’s it.
Thanks Truth, I was definitely wondering about their role on the Board; it appears advisory based on the Northwestern paper I referenced below.
If you have any other personal knowledge of their relationship with the private sector, I’d love to hear it. One of the few positive takeaways from Glenn’s article is that I’d never heard of In-Q-Tel until he brought them up yesterday. The arrangement is pretty wild.
Congrats on this article to both authors, Glen Greenwald and Andrew Fishman. It wakes me up a bit.
One proof after another this mass surveillance business is nothing but grave assault on ordinary people.
Glenn and all those involved in these revelations deserve the highest honor from the citizens of this world.
Who is going to protect people’s rights and dignity when the most powerful forces are working to enslave every one?
Mind boggling.
I am quite certain that, a few weeks after the Snowden revelations, monitored terrorists began talking about an impending attack. The U-S went into a tizzy for a week, it was the lead story on the major newscasts. I’m sure there was substantial economic impact, and then… nothing happened. That was the easiest act of terror imaginable: just talk about a non-existent strike on monitored lines, then sit back and watch the fun! And we fell for it. Not surprisingly, this would anger the public and embarrass the administration, so this theory has never been officially raised. And again, the public is frightened by both terrorists and the national security apparatus. It’s a win-win for everyone – except we, the public. Where’s the common sense?
A guy that came to our school to talk about universities works for Recorded Future. He talked about what he was doing at Chalmers (big technical university) that was trying to stop Anonymous from doing what they are doing. This was before he started to work at Recorded Future but I questioned him of the ethics of spying at innocent people but he declined to answer. So yea Swedes working for the good of America. Made me really doubt if I should study at that university after High School.
I tnihk tihs is the bset eynopritcn. If erevy pecie of wrntiig was lkie tihs Cpaelpr wolud be Mad by now.
There are no stupid questions or comments. Just forbidden ones. Your IP address and file has now been sent to the NSA for review.
This is an extraordinary piece of investigative journalism. As with all excellent work, it makes you wonder why the rest of the supposedly “vibrant” US media-scape could not be bothered what seems like a grad student could have pieced together from (mostly?) publicly available information. Not to impugn Mr. Greenwald’s reliably excellent work and argumentation, but isn’t this supposed to be the norm?
Glenn: You’re twisting yourself into knots to align things with your world view — and losing cred.
One example:
“The Recorded Future “report”—which was actually nothing more than a short blog post…”
Come on, man.
Is this the jaw dropping huge story we’ve been waiting for? We’ve been calling NPR National Pentagon Radio for years. When’s are you going to publish something revealing?
Yes, a Pulitzer-prize winning journalist who has forced the Establishment to pay attention to what he says, is wasting everyone’s time by documenting that the nation’s most popular, Establishment-revered, “liberal” radio station is a CIA tool. Utterly cleaning NPR and Dina Temple-Raston’s clock on a platform that cannot be ignored, is just so nothing.
On Twitter I linked to this post and said Greenwald “eviscerated” NPR. The New York Times public editor, Margaret Sullivan, favorited my tweet.
We were all lost in a cloud of unknowing irrelevance, and might have remained there, but for insightful commenters just like you.
Mona, do your freaking research. The Times is also a government mouthpiece and participated in installing CIA journalists as double agents to spread propaganda. Check our PP winner Carl Bernstein’s blog. Sheesh oh man….Maybe Margaret Sullivan will favorite that Tweet, too. LOL
http://www.carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php
@Me, myself and I
All three of you should be commended for this link!
And you should improve your freaking reading comprehension, if you can.
Mr. Rickard suggested Greenwald’s piece is essentially redundant. It is not for several reasons, including because Greenwald speaks with a voice and from a platform that means even the NYT public editor hears him.
The Establishment nature of the NYT is precisely part of my point.
“Yes, a Pulitzer-prize winning journalist who has forced the Establishment to pay attention…”
With this type of argument I could conclude that, because Obama won the Nobel peace prize, all of his pro-Israel statements and actions should be above reproach. At best, this type of thinking is a perfect example of post hoc, ergo propter hoc logic.
You could conclude that, if you were a fuckwit.
Or, you could recognize that my point about Glenn’s Pulitzer is that it has made his voice all but impossible to ignore; he has forced himself into the Establishment conversation.
It is for that reason that his Pulitzer matters — not because it makes him right or wrong on any given issue, which I’d be the first to insist it does not. (Hell, Tom Friedman has a passel of the damn things.)
Mr. Rickard is a fool for suggesting that Greenwald’s exposing NPR is somehow redundant. It is not — not on the merits of the piece itself, nor on the basis of the decibels with which Greenwald now speaks.
“You could conclude that, if you were a fuckwit. Or, you could recognize that my point about Glenn’s Pulitzer is that it has made his voice all but impossible to ignore; he has forced himself into the Establishment conversation.”
Classic Mona.., she moves from post hoc logic to false dilemma at the bat of an eye. Oh Mona, pleeease don’t think of me as a “fuckwit”… I’ll be crushed!
No, dear. I’m explaining to you that purpose is the crucial point in determining whether a claim is fallacious or irrelevant. That is also true for the (logic-based) rules of evidence in court. Purpose determines whether an offered statement is, e.g., hearsay and thus inadmissible, and “out here” whether it is fallacious.
In the effort to intentionally sidestep Scott Rickard’s legitimate observation that this story contained no new revelations, you chose to shift the focus of the conversation to one wherein the issue of new revelations was now longer central. To this end, you attempted to advance the thesis that this particular article was newsworthy because:
1. it documented that “the nation’s most popular, Establishment-revered, “liberal” radio station is a CIA tool”, and
2. it “Utterly cleaned NPR and Dina Temple-Raston’s clock on a platform that cannot be ignored.
Even if true, neither of these arguments specifically invalidates Scott Rickard’s legitimate observation that this story contained no new revelations. At best, Glenn Greenwald’s article further documents the fact that NPR is being used by the CIA for the purpose of influencing public opinion; the fact that this article is redundant in this respect does not necessarily negate its value however. To the contrary, by vigilantly chronicling the unfolding pattern of CIA malfeasance, the American public is better able to gauge the potential threat that such abuses pose to their way of life if left unchecked.
The follow-up argument that: “Greenwald speaks with a voice and from a platform” from where “even the NYT public editor hears him” also fails to invalidate Scott Rickard’s legitimate observation that this story contained no new revelations. As does the argument that, because Glenn Greenwald reported on a story that resulted in the Guardian receiving a Pulitzer for public service, his voice is “all but impossible to ignore; he has forced himself into the Establishment conversation.” Although the “Establishment” was “forced to pay attention” to the Guardian’s reporting on the Snowden revelations of NSA malfeasance, there is no legitimate presumption that the resultant Pulitzer is a fair measure of a more recent story’s news worthiness; neither is it a guarantee that “The Establishment” is paying any attention to Glenn Greenwald’s most recent article.
The fact that a NYT public editor responded positively to your commentary about this article is not proof that the “Establishment”, as a monolithic entity, is paying any attention to Glenn Greenwald’s daily musings. Neither is their any basis in fact that Glenn Greenwald’s “Pulitzer” was instrumental in Margaret Sullivan “favoring your tweet.” Yet, you continue to insist that the “Pulitzer has made his [Glenn Greenwald’s] voice all but impossible to ignore.” Although your claim is both “fallacious” and “irrelevant” it is not out of character.
And even if true (it is not; I pointed out that Glenn’s piece is not redundant on its own merits), I effectively rebutted Rickard’s belief that there is little or no value to Glenn’s article.
But congratulations on finally comprehending my primary point, which you characterize thus:
That’s right! Even if Glenn’s piece had contained nothing new, it would hold value because his voice cannot be ignored. This would be why NPR has responded to the article (with a vacuous press release), and is also why their ombudsman has separately promised (on Twitter) that in response to all his emails on the topic, he will be investigating the issue of Temple-Raston’s story and Glenn’s criticism of it. Glenn’s fame is also why the NYT public editor was able to favor the piece; she would likely not even know of it had it been written by most others.
So, you seem to finally, at least generally, comprehend the point. Always remember, Wilhelmina, the purpose for which a fact is offered is the linchpin of whether it is or is not fallacious. Keep that in mind, and you will make yourself look foolish far less frequently.
“I effectively rebutted Rickard’s belief that there is little or no value to Glenn’s article”
Classic Mona.., she contrives a straw man argument for the purpose of advancing post hoc logic and, when challenged, resorts to false dilemmas. Do you honestly believe that you are commanding the slightest respect for your commentary with this type of sophistry?
Rickard’s sole complaint was that there was no new revelations, pure and simple.
I believe we are zeroing in on the reason you keep erroneously asserting that I commit fallacies; your reading comprehension is impaired.
You (presumably) read Mr. Rickard’s statement here: “Is this the jaw dropping huge story we’ve been waiting for?” And you interpreted as something other than the sarcastic, rhetorical question that it is.
You, Wilhelmina, appear not to have grasped that Rickard was rejecting that Greenwald’s post is worthwhile. Slow down, and revisit the original text when engaged in an ongoing dispute about it. That — in addition to remembering the central importance of purpose — will assist you in avoiding embarrassing public displays.
“You (presumably) read Mr. Rickard’s statement here: “Is this the jaw dropping huge story we’ve been waiting for?” And you interpreted as something other than the sarcastic, rhetorical question that it is.”
Oh Mona, Argumentum ad nauseam? Really? Have you no shame?
Didn’t you work for the CIA, Mr. Rickard? A linguist, or something.
You were sure not too long ago that Snowden is ‘probably’ working for the Russians.
The appeal of being savvy: “there’s nothing left to talk about”.
But really, it’s more like: “we’d prefer you didn’t add to the discussion.”
Apparently that’s why comments are under review for more than an hour or don’t appear at all. True colors show.
Watch the debate between Glenn Greenwald and Dina Temple-Raston below posted by Dan Sanchez and others down below – it offers a good insight into the two competing schools of American journalism (i.e. “government claims should be challenged for evidence” vs “government claims should be amplified and presented as objective”).
Oh come now. We’ve all known for years that “NPR” stands for “Nice *Polite* RepublicRats*”. sheesh…
Thank you, Glenn, again for doing what our others News Media should be doing. It is a shame. There is no longer investigative news on the Cable News. There is only Political faux discussions between Talking Heads spinning the interests of the corporation owned news. I am afraid someday it may be revealed that Big Bird is a NSA Operative.
http://www.wintersbutterfly.com
Faux News?
I’ve recently achieved gold star certification in identifying hyphenated named public radio hosts with nationally syndicated shows who have the ability to conceal secret messages to America’s enemies with their alpha wave inducing voices much like whales and dolphins do with their squeaks and squeals.
Therefore I’ve been able to confirm with 100% certainty that Dina Temple-Raston is communicating encrypted messages to members of the terrorist gang ISIS and their cave dwelling troublemaking associates around the globe using only her brainwave flattening voice and America’s airwaves.
The transmission from Mrs. Temple-Raston, imperceptible to U.S. intelligence agencies, began shortly and unexplainably after the enormous document dump taken by Eduardo Snowden in the Spring of 2013.
It has been believed for many years that terrorist groups such as ISIS have “assets” trained in the art of encrypted voice transmission planted in most of the national public radio stations in the U.S. but this is the first time confirmation has been made.
NPR has totally ignored all the evidence I have brought forth regarding DTR’s traitorous actions leading one to logically conclude that the entire station has fallen victim to the hypnotic, coma causing buzz emanating from their speakers.
We can only hope that the CIA can rid terrorist allied monsters like Dina Temple-Raston from our precious media and replace them with script reading government loyal mouthpieces before America begins to believe that the news is a lie.
Obama is sending 130 more military advisors to Iraq, but apparently all these like the hundreds before them can levitate, so no boots on the ground, of course.
@Coram Nobis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE8kOv26BuQ
Oh, Glenn, Jeremy, et al…
Do you ever get tired of bitch-slapping the stupids with your reporting? It must get exhausting sometimes…
The Intercept has been improving since Scahill released that ¨Blacklisted¨ story. Glenn, let’s patch things up… I like your blatant attack on NPR. They have deserved it for years. I have a great idea for a new Quiz: Who said this? NPR, FOX, MSNBC or VOA? Pepper it with VOA to drive the point home.
See you all around someday…
Everyone here should read this:
*America Helped Make the Islamic State* (by Charles Davis, h/t Greenwald’s Twitter)
(This is not Clinton’s argument that Obama should have armed Syrian ‘rebels’ – again, what is this, Star Wars ffs? – indeed the article points out the ‘MINITRUE (see Orwell’s 1984) deleted’ fact that Obama DID arm them. This is an actual serious look at the situation and its history.)
http://www.vice.com/read/america-helped-make-the-islamic-state-812?utm_source=vicetwitterus
Highly recommended.
I’ve already posted several articles on various Intercept threads regarding US CIA involvement in the Middle East particularly IRAQ, but what the heck….have another:
“Implausible Deniability – West’s ISIS Terror Hordes in Iraq”
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/08/implausible-deniability-wests-isis.html#more
“Billions in cash have been funneled into the hands of terrorist groups including Al Nusra, Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), and what is now being called “Islamic State in Iraq and Syria” or ISIS. One can see clearly by any map of ISIS held territory that it butts up directly against Turkey’s borders with defined corridors ISIS uses to invade southward – this is because it is precisely from NATO territory this terrorist scourge originated.
ISIS was harbored on NATO territory, armed and funded by US CIA agents with cash and weapons brought in from the Saudis, Qataris, and NATO members themselves. The “non-lethal aid” the US and British sent including the vehicles we now see ISIS driving around in. “
First AP and now this. There’s a lot of people in media who make mistakes, are ignorant or are simply pushing an agenda. But attacking other media this way is getting very Alex Jones-ish. It’s a point well-taken and worth noting, but hardly worth an article this big. Anyone in the know already knows NPR is a government mouthpiece. People who don’t still aren’t not going to get it no matter what you say. Alex Jones is bigger than these NPR and AP people in terms of his reach. What about investigating him? Lots of rumors out there that he works for the government and Stratfor. Wonder if it’s also just attack or if it’s true. You want to really hit a raw nerve, look there.
It is somewhat amusing the people who have to stop by just to inform Glenn they think he is writing about unworthy or otherwise inappropriate topics.
Yeah, publicly eviscerating NPR’s fellating the CIA/NSA/intel/-Recorded Future complex is a “nothing to see here” topic. That a hugely popular, intellectually respected, Establishment-revered, “liberal” radio channel is a CIA propaganda tool is a yawner, all right.
Tell you what, you toddle over to wherever it is that Alex Jones posts his stuff, read of it deeply, then start a blog to expose it. If this is a service worth performing, you will grow as widely read as Glenn is. If not, not.
Well Mona, that’s what readers do – give feedback. From the comments I’d say quite a few people agree. Since there’s this “trend” of government-run media accusations, thought you’d want some bigger fish to fry. it’s sort of ironic, don’t you think, that your heroes at Greenwald and Company admittedly worked with the government on every story? Is that news to you as well as it was news to you that NPR is govt-funded? That’s not fellating the government? Whatever! Whatever that means – “the people who stop by.” Do you have a crystal ball or just using the NSA tools to profile? I’ll hold my breath until I see a story more worthy of finding out if Alex Jones is also run by the government, ok? Why don’t you check with them…I’m sure they’ll tell you to not write that story, too. Touching some nerves here, aren’t we…The truth stings just a bit, doesn’t it?
“It is somewhat amusing the people who have to stop by just to inform Glenn they think he is writing about unworthy or otherwise inappropriate topics.”
No more amusing than those who feel compelled to employ the use of sockpuppets in service to Argumentum ad populum.
Welp, with that logic followed to its logical conclusion, Glenn’s work is finished here. Hell, everyone’s work is finished everywhere. Everyone in Camp A is in Camp A forever and not budging. Everyone in Camp B is in Camp B forever and not budging. Quite a world of wonder you’ve chosen. Don’t take up fiction writing though, because there would be no need for anyone to read beyond page one, since things won’t have progressed or changed at all by page 286 or so anyway, so why would anyone bother.
Welp, why don’t you go screw your friends at Infowars. Welp, welp, welp. I’ve never seen so many mystical oracles and all-knowing, all seeing eyes as in the comments section of The Intercept. You’re all about as good an accurate as a Magic 8 Ball. What the hell did your response have to do with anything? The point is why are you attacking someone in the media at little old NPR when there are bigger fish to fry?
I haven’t read the article yet but I just want to say that when I drive to work in the morning I have the choice to listen to NPR or Pacifica Radio news. I know from being burned a gazillion times in the past that NPR invariably provides news that’s been infected with establishment-spin. Consequently, I listen to Pacifica.
However, I find that I periodically tune in to NPR in the off-chance that maybe they’ve finally started to provide uncontaminated news stories. I’m effectively monitoring them in order to gauge their health since they were ok in the past. Have you ever done that? Do you also filter comments for the most ‘likes’ to measure the sanity of the public?…kind of the same thing. I can’t be alone in this.
Every time I go to NPR, though, I invariably get burned yet one more goddamn time. Pissed at myself for being so stupid as to believe that they would change their ways, I quickly go back to Pacifica only to find that the lead story already went by. It’s like beating my head against the wall. I recognize that this is dysfunctional behavior on my part but I can’t help it. When I read Glenn’s latest I’m sure it’ll help me get further down the road in my recovery.
“I’m effectively monitoring them in order to gauge their health since they were ok in the past. Have you ever done that?”
Yes. On the way home, every frigging afternoon. They rarely fail to disappoint. I stand a better shot of getting to hear something truly educational on the Christian channels at the low end of the FM dial.
Here’s Harvey Keitel also getting burned by NPR on the way to (or from) work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQRV5_auS_Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=58
You appear to have upset Nate and made him unusually defensive, Mr. Greenwald. His “devil’s advocate” position (which he adopts regularly, and sometimes proves insightful) today required a convoluted wearying 3-part comment and beyond. Have you no mercy?
Did the tone of my posts indicate I was upset? I’m not. I just thought this was a very poor article. Feel free to discuss any of my points.
Yes, you seemed upset. And defensive, but that is somewhat understandable. I didn’t find any of your points compelling enough to bother with, personally. This is not the case with all your posts, however.
That’s cool, appreciate that.
A Lot of people do not realize that NPR News or CPB has changed. George W. Bush appointed Kenneth Tomlinson head of CPB (Corporation of Public Broadcasting over PBS and NPR) in 2001 as soon as Bush became US President. After Tomlinson took over CPR, he started making major personnel changes. Kenneth Tomlinson was head of Reader’s Digest and it was the cheapest conservative magazine practically given away to homes across the nation. Now after a decade, you can practically call NPR the “Reader’s Digest of the Air Waves”.
I am not surprised at Glenn’s article. NPR is not the same after Kenneth Tomlinson. If you can recall, Tomlinson was under criminal investigation by the State Department Inspector General for misuse of federal money. He were accused of creating “phantom employees” and setting up a horse-racing operation from his office. The out come, he was acquitted and took “early retirement”.
And let’s not forget: NPR fired Bob Edwards less than six months before the 25th anniversary of [the original) Morning Edition, the show he created. It’s been all downhill from there.
Interesting I actually heard the npr report on the way to work and was somewhat nonplussed by the lack of evidence for causation. Sort of depressing but thanks gg for pointing g it out.
NPR = New Propaganda Regime
Recorded Future. Nice name for a company. Might as well call themselves Minority Report.
Or the Adjustment Bureau.
Excellent reporting. Too bad the usual suspects are here in force to nay-say and nitpick. Journalism is dead, except for the brave and the few.
Sort of off-topic, but according to one poll 58% of Americans approve of US airstrikes in Iraq.
But no one mentions how propagandized into approval by the media and government are those asked.
No causation? Greenwald cherry-picking evidence much?
“Between (a) these new product releases and (b) GIMF’s own statement on the Tashfeer al-Jawwal download page:
“Take your precautions, especially in the midst of the rapidly developing news about the cooperation of global companies with the international intelligence agencies, in the detection of data exchanged over smartphones.
“It’s pretty clear our earlier point that we’re observing increased pace of innovation in encryption technology by Al-Qaeda post Snowden stands true. And this innovation is based on best practice, off the shelf, algorithms.”
Source: https://www.recordedfuture.com/al-qaeda-encryption-technology-part-2/
It stands to reason that any not-stupid terrorist would try to second guess surveillance and do all possible to avoid it (the example of bin Laden using couriers only, for example, which even dismisses all of this encryption business) just as it stands to reason that any stupid terrorist is going to be easily caught by nominal methods.
The Snowden revelations proved it wasn’t suspected “terrorists” alone being surveilled, and this is the important point, not what precautions criminals of all kinds are obviously going to take to avoid detection in an increasingly technological age.
This deflection away from the point of the revelations is plain propaganda.
It also stands to reason that non-stupid terrorists would also use diversion and deception in their communications, to mislead the Western powers. An old technique, of course. But really, there would be far less terrorism if the policies of the West toward the Middle East were not so screwed up. That needs to be repeated over and over and over again.
Agreed. Even the CIA have a term for the results of Western meddling: Blowback.
“It’s pretty clear our earlier point that we’re observing increased pace of innovation in encryption technology by Al-Qaeda post Snowden stands true. And this innovation is based on best practice, off the shelf, algorithms.”
Cause and effect are implied in this quote. It is worded so as to not-quite-say that Snowden caused this increase in innovation, but it leads the casual reader to that assumption. I’m going to make another assumption here: this handy wording was not accidental, and I’m not much for yielding the field to shrewd propagandists.
The critical issue, which Glenn obscured with his lengthy, itemized take-down of the NPR piece, is that revelation of U.S. government malfeasance trumps some incidental benefits to our enemies. He argued instead that those benefits are unproven and/or inflated; I say that is a side argument.
The long term, nation-threatening damage done to us by our own guys running amok far exceeds what some AK-brandishing twerps can do to us. We probably have more to fear from their smiling young soldiers’ Lolcatz posts on Instagram than from their guns and conspiracies.
It should be pointed out more often. Probably not by Glenn; his ego is sufficiently remarked upon (and it is far from imaginary). However, the security establishment’s efforts to portray Snowden as someone who has damaged us are garbage. He’s damaged a bunch of guys’ business models, and their hopes of retiring to the links at 50.
You got that right Fluffy. It’s not in the same ballpark … it’s not even the same game.
You right….”The long term, nation-threatening damage done to us by our own guys running amok far exceeds what some AK-brandishing twerps can do to us…” The long term meaning the damage to the American constitution and democracy.
Leaving aside the conflicts of interest, and even leaving aside correlation vs. causation, that blog post is not convincing scientifically. It’s not clear if their methodology for selecting what events to report would not lead to bias (i.e. How do we know they haven’t cherry-picked either intentionally or unintentionally? How do we know their methods don’t tend to under-report in the past?) It’s also possible that there are other reasons why there’s been a recent uptick of events, such as the Syrian civil war, the growth of ISIS, etc.
Excellent deconstruction. Underlying the special relationship of the military (CIA, NSA etc.) to mass media spokespeople is a creepiness, the disturbing and chilling nature of which you consistently present with pure facts, almost scientifically.
On July 2, 2013 the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012 was signed into law as part of NDAA. This made it legal for the CIA to propagandize US citizens right here in the US, a practice illegal before then.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr5736ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr5736ih.pdf
Hey! I’ve been making this observation for a while now… usually to a chorus of dead air… but I get you.
Keep posting.
actions allowed in the act were legal 180 days after passage, wonder if there are any interesting stories from the CIA around that time
Meanwhile, the Best Gobbledygook of the Year award has been bestowed on the Office of Obfuscation and Doublespeak for their tireless devotion to the art of confusing the public with meaningless gobbedygook, asinine euphemisms and bald faced lies masquerading as truth as evidenced in the construction of the ‘Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012.
The reality is this: DOD has $10Billion invested in paying educated soldiers and contractors to “take sides” on YouTube, FaceBook and popular blogs (i.e – The Intercept) to distract us from the actual facts contained in these stories. Perhaps The Intercept considers turning off comments on its articles?
I thought Langley, Fort Meade, et al, had brushed off Snowden’s effects; that they could handle and slight damage.
Thank you for joining the dots. Given the content and phrasing of the NPR broadcast, I might have been inclined to dismiss my initial doubts as “tinfoil-hattery”. You have provided the chapter-and-verse proof: it’s not me that’s mad, it’s them!
NSA is in the House!
My Critique of Glenn’s Article [Part 3]
b> Throwing NPR Under the Bus
If there has ever been a good example of shooting the messenger, it is here. Glenn, did this NPR author run over one of your dogs or something!? Your contempt for her is palpable. Glenn took umbrage with her story but I thought she did an okay job. This does not deserve to be conveyed as propaganda. She described the efforts of Recorded Future and followed it up with comments by Bruce Schneier. You seem to take issue with the reporter “relegating” to the end of the short audio clip and article the comments of Schneier, but I see this as just a weak excuse. When you are explaining information based on a claim, you typically start with the claimants who are followed by additional sources for comment or to critique the claim. For example, “Snowden said X, the NSA countered that claim with Y,” or “The NSA said A, the ACLU responded with B.” It would be more difficult to comprehend an article’s contents if the above examples were reversed, especially when the audience is unfamiliar with the topic or claim.
You say that this NPR author, Temple-Raston, should have included in her reporting the funding by In-Q-Tel. But that in all honesty is a judgment call. Maybe she did not think it had any influence on the work of Recorded Future. Furthermore, if she did include that, it would imply to me that she had reason not to trust any of their analysis. Is Recorded Future corrupted to the point where they cannot be saved!? Do they lack all credibility? I have my doubts. Hell, your old stomping ground – the Guardian – seemed to think highly of Recorded Future’s work.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/media-blog/2013/nov/04/digital-journalism-pierre-omidyar-ebay-glenn-greenwald
Some Other Thoughts on this article
* Having read the whole article now, I returned to the title and it is absurd. “NPR Is Laundering CIA Talking Points to Make You Scared of NSA Reporting.” This is hyperbolic clickbait that rivals the best of them (I’m looking at you Politicususa.com)
Glenn’s link fails to support this claim. Look at the screengrab that Glenn posted and the actual article and tell me how that constitutes Vuksan hailing “the partnership as vital to his company’s future prospects. IT DOESN’T!!
PS: You guys misspelled Vuksan’s name incorrectly in the above quote.
“Here is a synopsis for those who don’t have time to read the whole thing.”
Key points:
“Didn’t we already beaten this dead horse…!?”
“…guys misspelled Vuksan’s name incorrectly…”
Thanks. There’s no way I was gonna read the whole thing. But I’ll just point out this is at least the second time Nate takes up the role of defender of the establishment media. Whenever he’s not defending the establishment media, you’ll find him attacking The Intercept’s reporting.
Jose, hadn’t seen you commit an ad-hominem attack until now! That’s too bad.
Your response is emblematic of a lot of lazy news and political readers these days: I don’t have the time or want to read it all but that sure as hell won’t stop me from sharing my opinion of it!
As for the “defender of establishment media,” this gave me a laugh. It’s such a meaningless cliche; what entities comprise the “establishment media” and what traits makes it such? If you want to explore this, I’m game. Let’s start by you giving me a list of “establishment media” so we can at least start on the same page. Here, I’ll start your list:
1. NPR
Nope. An ad hom attack is in the form of: “X is wrong because sh/he is Y, where Y= negative thing.”
Few of us are any longer going to address the “substance” of your long-winded codswallop. We certainly do not argue it is wrong because you are Y (that is, a negative thing).
No, we merely point out — standing alone as support for nothing — that you are Y, i.e., a very negative, silly and inane thing. Grappling with your verbose, insipid assertions is not the point; the point *is to remind you that you are silly and inane.
I simply made an observation about your MO. What is Establishment Media? Let’s start with a definition of Establishment (copy-pasted from Wikipedia):
Jose:
That isn’t specific at all. I could argue that First Look Media is “Establishment” under that painfully broad definition.
I want actual names of publications.
I read it. He’s saying:
“She did an okay job. Maybe she should have included the backstory that she obviously was awayre of, but that it’s a ‘judgment call.” He also suggests that Recorded Future’s relationship to the government is no reason to doubt their little ‘blog post’ that Temple-Raston claims is a ‘Report.’
Nate is clearly unaware of basic journalistic thresholds.
Then he goes on to claim that Glenn’s headline is ‘click bait,’ as if anybody here would not click an article by Glenn Greenwald titled “Paint dries on Wall.”
Oh my goodness. There are two other parts to Nate’s madness.
not to mention, Nate doesn’t know what ad hominem means. Oh well … sounds good. One o’ those fallacy thingies …..
@AtheistInChief
The operative word in your quote is “here.” Of course I’d expect the general populace of this forum to read his stuff no matter what. But these headlines try to appeal to a broader crowd.
Super lengthy articles beget super lengthy responses. Perhaps Twitter is more up your alley?
@FunkNJunk:
Nope, already defined it once but will do it again. An ad hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Jose rejected my claim on the basis that I am a defender of “establishment media” which is of course, irrelevant to my post. Ya follow!?
@Nate.
The only correct thing you’ve said, from the little I’ve read, is that the operative word is “here.” So your faculties are clearly working. But are you suggesting that Glenn Greenwald should not be allowed to sensationalize the headlines of sensational stories? Can you name your favorite journalist, whose best practices Glenn can emulate? Or is your personal animus towards Glenn Greenwald manifesting itself into you creating special rules of conduct for Glenn?
I dont’ have a twitter account. But I do have Glenn Greenwald’s twitter feed open on my website. When it updates, I click.
Mona joins Jose in the Ad hominem club. Hope you brought food and drinks, could get crazy!
Wikipedia: “An ad hominem (Latin for “to the man” or “to the person”[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.”
While you can quote a definition of ad hom, you clearly do not understand it.
I do not even care to assess your drivel, and I do not is “reject it on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author.” I do not bother to “reject” anything you spew.
I merely point out — as a standalone fact — that you, Nate, regularly post lengthy, silly and inane crud.
I didn’t reject your claims on that basis. If I took the time to read your claims, I suspect I would reject them on the grounds that they are weak and make no sense.
Mona:
Then I guess it is just a shocking coincidence. I provide a detailed response and Mona just happened to be wandering by, thinking: “man, that Nate guy sure is a silly and inane thing; perhaps I will share my thoughts right here and now. Oh wait, I just happened to post this as part of a broader reply to Nate’s comments!”
@Jose:
Thanks for validating my point.
Actually, I thought this pretty well captured the whole comment:
“Glenn took umbrage with her story but I thought she did an okay job.”
@Nate – I do not mind “click-bait” at all, so long as the facts and best evidence provided behind that headline support the claims being made – which in this case, despite your critique to the contrary, does with clarity and supporting documentation sorely lacking in most reporting these days.
Fair enough, I respect that Silly. And I agree that Glenn does include lots of links and information, almost too much sometimes. As for clarity, I thought this one was hard to follow because of its length and lack of sectioning. But those are minor quibbles.
In the defense of some journalists, a sensationalist title can sometimes be the decision of the Editor and not the writer. Regardless, it’s a pet peeve of mine built up from my Reddit /r/politics days and is both a far right and far left problem. There is an expansive sea of information and limited viewers. The sexier the title, more upvotes, more page views, more money.
I don’t know for certain who wrote the title of this piece, but my guess is that Glenn did. I’m guessing that to be the case because it is in the style of his satirical titles and remarks that he writes in his posts and in his tweets. I mean, “To make you scared of NSA Reporting.” You don’t see the humor in the wording of that? Even though it is the truth? He or whomever could have just written, “NPR reporter lies like hell, because, War on Terror!” But, you know, that would have been “click bait.”
Glenn’s style strikes me as more of sarcasm than satire. Satire employs humor while sarcasm is more dependent on mockery. I personally (and not proudly) resort to sarcasm a lot more than I’d like to.
Referring to the title, I just don’t see humor in the wording. It seems more like pure outrage. I also disagree that it is the truth :)
Is this snark? I can’t tell anymore.
There’s other aspects. The Form 990 filing for 2013 (TY 2012) has an awful lot of hints that NPR never looked into, for instance, the mention on page 42 about 200 venture capital companies taking part in this. (See also Glenn’s “portfolio” link, since he did do some digging in that direction as well). Three of their highest-paid contractors are in the San Francisco Bay Area (which is to say, greater Silicon Valley). And they report almost $2m in travel and conference costs.
And why is the intelligence community using a charity nonprofit to manage investments and venture capital? Why?
“Community”
https://www.privacysos.org/node/1441
“greater Silicon Valley”
Like Google, Apple, Microsoft,Facebook…..This just up at C-net:
“Obama picks former Googler to head federal tech overhaul”
http://www.cnet.com/news/obama-picks-former-googler-to-head-federal-tech-overhaul/
The Security State wants it all and Silicon Valley can give it to them. Nonprofit charities are great cover operations for National Security deep operations that are designed to get all the information into the central bank accounts of the elite.
I was just as curious as you coram, so I looked up more information and think this will clear it up. First some background.
In-Q-Tel is a “hybrid” governmental and private section entity similar to Fannie Mae, the National Park Foundation and in my belief – UNICOR (Federal Prison Industries). In-Q-Tel’s announced purpose is to “permit the CIA to invest in, and thereby encourage, corporations producing technology the agency believes it will need to perform its mission in thhe future.” It is “capitalized by $150 million in government funds” and is expected to be self sufficient (similar also to UNICOR in terms of self-sufficiency)
The former CEO of In-Q-Tel sums up their goals: “The CIA and the rest of the government need to catch the entrepreneurial, risk-taking spirit that’s driving the Silicon Vally technology revolution.” They clearly want to push tech companies to make goods or services the CIA can use. Other agencies have created “non-profit venture capital corporations” including the Army and NASA.
Source for the above: Congressional Research Service, “The Quasi Government…” Dated June 2011
Northwestern did a more recent report called “In-Q-Tel: The CIA Agency as a Venture Capitalist” that contains lots of great information.
PURPOSE
* Envisioned as a platform to expand the R&D efforts of the CIA in the private sector, In-Q-Tel uses CIA-supplied funds to make strategic investments in startup companies developing commercially focused technologies that are of interest to the CIA and greater intelligence community.
HISTORY
* While the concept of a CIA-sponsored venture capital firm may seem odd, such an initiative derives from the exceptionally broad discretion granted to the U.S. intelligence community regarding the use of funds since 1775
* During the Cold War, the U-2 reconnaissance plane, the SR-71 reconnaissance plane, and the Corona spy satellite program emerged from this new focus on funding cutting-edge R&D programs….[Years Later George Tenet said that] “the CIA had once been a
“giant” in the area of science and technology, but “the dot-com revolution was passing us by. Private-sector technology was far outstripping our ability to keep pace with our targets.
* A novel approach suggested by Dr. Ruth David, the head of the Directorate of Science and Technology, caught Tenet’s eye. David proposed that the CIA outsource a portion of its R&D efforts to the private sector.
* The CIA approached Norman Augustine, the former chief executive officer (CEO) of the aerospace and defense company Lockheed Martin, to serve as the firm’s founder
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE CIA & IN-Q-TEL (Yay, one of my Q’s)
* Unlike [the Technology Innovation Program], which is a public-private partnership that functions more as a pool of government grant money than a venture capital fund, In-Q-Tel is arguably a true, independent venture capital firm….* However, characterizing In-Q-Tel solely as a venture capital firm is somewhat inaccurate. Indeed, In-Q-Tel have variously (and correctly) been called a “technology accelerator,” a “private nonprofit venture capital company,” as well as “the venture capital arm of the CIA.”…In-Q-Tel refers to itself as a “strategic investment firm.
* Business Executives for National Security (BENS)…[says] In-Q-Tel is most analogous to a corporate strategic venture capital entity – like those maintained by major technology firms.
* Regardless of the label, the important point is that In-Q-Tel, legally independent of the CIA, makes equity investments in private sector firms using government-supplied funds.
HOW IN-Q-TEL WORKS (INCLUDES A KEY PART ABOUT THE BOARD)
* Critics of hybrid organizations such as In-Q-Tel “tend to consider the governmental and private sectors as being legally distinct, with relatively little overlap in behavioral norms.” Yet, this is the point of In-Q-Tel: the CIA recognizes the public and private sectors function very differently, particularly with respect to procurement.
* An office within the CIA, called the In-Q-Tel Interface Center (QIC), serves as the link between the CIA and In-Q-Tel.
* Like other venture capital firms, In-Q-Tel typically assumes an advisory position on a portfolio company’s board of directors. From this vantage point, In-Q-Tel acts as a general advisor to the company. The perceived benefit of being an investor in the company rather than simply a customer is that, if any changes are made to the company or its product(s), In-Q-Tel will promptly find out. As one of In-Q-Tel’s senior directors put it in 2004, “When you are [only] a customer, you are often the last to know.
AUTHOR CONCERNS AND CONCLUSION
They’re not very relevant to the topic at hand but I’ll put them here anyways: “Staffing and Technology Integration,” “Technology Integration at CIA,” and International Security and Foreign Entanglements,
This author is concerned about the risk of being in the venture capital game and risks associated with exposing the CIA and larger USG to foreign entanglements.
“You say that this NPR author, Temple-Raston, should have included in her reporting the funding by In-Q-Tel. But that in all honesty is a judgment call.”
In all honesty any journalist worthy of the name has a duty to report financial ties between groups she reports on. Is it a judgment call? Yes. Did she judge correctly? Absolutely not. In fact, her judgment in not reporting the deep government ties of these firms is highly suspect and points to her desire to push a line instead of report with objectivity. Any claim otherwise is just shameless apologetics for corrupt and inexcusably poor reporting. Reporters are supposed to report the facts, and to pretend the deep CIA financial ties of these firms are unimportant facts to the story transform it into blatant propaganda.
You know, Nate, to my mind your sheer enthusiasm makes up for a lot. I find it extraordinarily frustrating, for example, that you have what I would call “Centrist Realism” (I am sort of a centrist myself, but not a realist about it) and don’t apply the same standards to people who knee-jerk strike you as ‘balanced’, like Gellman, as you do to Greenwald. Skepticism is great, but apply it across the board. However, like I said – I am a Greenwald fan, and I must acknowledge that you are amazingly enthusiastic about (even if it’s in the form of criticism) and seem to spend a good bit of time analyzing his work, so in some sense I appreciate that.
I thought you made a couple of good points, i.e., in invoking “Affiliation = possible bias”, there is something to be said about the oft trotted out Omidyar connection. I don’t think there’s anything too that point, when GG’s critics make it, but to a degree it’s using the same logic. Another thing that I wondered about, when reading this article, was how many sources one has to choose from on research of this nature. I mean, are there big, impartial, independent research firms doing polls on Al Qaeda’s encryption technology just… because? It seems like that would be a rather specialized field, and it makes sense that most anyone involved in such research would have an intelligence tie-in. Could be totally wrong on that, though.
I also agree that the legality of such programs should stand alone, unrelated to pragmatic outcomes. As an extreme, if Snowden had reported that bathroom cameras were being used in everyone’s home to monitor terrorist activity, and a report found that various groups stopped conducting meetings in the bathroom – well, what, that makes it ok then? A program is legal or it’s not, and I think that’s where the focus should be in these stories.
In terms of where we disagree – well, the usual, I think you see other people’s subjective slant but assume you are coming at it from a perch of objectivity, when no such place exists. For example, look at these phrases:
“I THINK it is important to point this type of information out but I DISAGREE with the notion… I THOUGHT she did an ok job… but I SEE THIS as a weak excuse… you TYPICALLY start with… it would be more difficult to comprehend an article’s contents if… that in all honesty is a judgement call… maybe she did not think… it would imply to me that…”
To pull just a few to make a point. Or even your analogy – why choose a friend giving you a research paper? Why not choose an analogy of being denied a promotion because of a performance review written by a supervisor whose wife you recently slept with – containing true but cherry-picked information? I’m not saying you *should have chosen that analogy, btw, just that in simply going one way vs. the other there, you show your subjective slant. That’s fine, again, in many ways our original subjective ‘perch’ is probably similar, Nate. I just think it’s very important to acknowledge it as subjective.
@Nic
I agree that I am more a realist than an idealist on many matters, but not all (example below). However, I would not categorize myself as a centrist, especially on social issues. The reason I prefer Gellman’s brand of reporting versus Glenn’s is more than just “balance,” a term that could be construed as encouraging false equivalence and giving equal time to both views (example, the absurdity of providing equal time and weight to the views of anti-climate change hacks when their views are rejected by 99% of the scientific community). It is an idealistic reason that makes me so skeptical of Glenn’s and other similar figures’ brand of journalism, and that is: not attempting to be impartial. Glenn has a realist’s view of impartiality that I patently disagree with. It boils down to the fact that none of us are truly objective (true) and we all have biases (also true), so why pretend we don’t!? I reject this view and where I stand is best conveyed by Bill Keller, during his discussion with Glenn:
I don’t view Glenn as someone who challenges his own convictions at all and becomes entrenched. Journalistic disagreements turn into blood feuds.
I believe I do. I’ve been accused of being an NSA-shill, a naive liberal, a cynic, an idealogue, and now a “centrist realist.” So that at least tells me I’m diversified to some extent! I’ve e-mailed Barton Gellman a couple times now and in both instances was irritated by his responses (I can provide more info. on these discussions if you’d like) so I don’t view him as some saint. I just trust his work more.
I appreciate that Nic.
It’s not that I see myself as the objective source, but that I at least try to be impartial. Below your quote you have a bunch of examples of me saying “I Think,” “I disagree,” “I thought,” etc. I think this is proof that I don’t consider myself to be on a perch of objectivity. Otherwise I’d convey my thoughts as statements of fact. By using those qualifiers, I’m implying that my views are subjective, but that does not mean I do not yearn for objectivity.
I think that such an analogy would be a lot more loaded than the one I came up with, because it assumes there has been impropriety (cheating and cherry picked information). My analogy tries to be impartial – you received some person’s paper and have to critique it. How would you want yours critiqued?
Nate, I can’t get the formatting to work on my computer, so rather than go through paragraph by paragraph, some bullet points to make it easier to read:
– I didn’t mean ‘realist vs idealist’ I meant ‘realist vs. relativist’. You have a point that even relativism ends in a realist statement or a paradox (If ‘everything is relative’, so is the statement ‘everything is relative’,) but in a practical, daily usage sense, I think calling Glenn a realist, in relation to you, is obviously comical and clearly goes against your own self-descriptions, so I don’t particularly see what your point is.
– As to impartiality – your last paragraph is an illustration of the difficulties here. What does what I wanted (that word again – ‘want’) have to do with impartiality? I mean, I can’t think of anything that has LESS to do with this mythical impartiality than my personal (personal) preference. Other than that, you assume your analogy represents impartiality because – just because it does as a sort of inherent property, I guess, I don’t see a justification in there.
– I hope we can agree that *total impartiality is obviously a myth – there is clearly no such thing beyond, I don’t know, pantheism or some enlightened mystic state. Or it would involve nothing but strings of descriptive statements (although I would argue that even those are not 100% ‘impartial’). I will give you fair warning that if you are claiming otherwise, you’re basically claiming to have solved an ancient philosophical problem (the facts-value gap, essentially, although it appears in various places in various wording) that has thus far gone unanswered.
So if we can’t agree there, then I consider your position as kind of a religious one, to which rational debate doesn’t apply. If you are talking about a sort of practical ‘impartiality’, however, you have to ask yourself what that is based on. Typically, predictive value for goals we think, collectively, are important as a society, or representing common views, although not every view. Ones that have reached at least a large enough collective threshold to have ‘minority’ status are still held by a sizable group. In that sense, the problems we might have with being ‘impartial’ are roughly equivalent to problems of representing different points of view in any political system. To which I say, democracy, while not perfect, is the best answer we’ve hit on thus far. In the same way that I am for political groups that I disagree with having a forum, I am for different world views having a forum in the news. One outlet trying to briefly sweep across or touch on all of those views in a representative manner is one way of trying to accomplish this, and I believe this is what you are calling ‘impartiality’. But there are disadvantages to that – in trying to represent all sides in a sort of hovering above it all, godlike manner, no single point of view is actually fully expressed. So I see a place for quick summations of multiple POVs (again, what you would refer to as ‘impartial’ outlets) and for in-depth looks at how any one group views an issue – what facts seem salient to them, where they infer causality, etc. All of that is subjective, beyond, again, predictive value, and nothing is more subjective than a group goal, so that still amounts to saying “All of that is subjective”.
– While sometimes his harsh language makes me all sad, I love Greenwald’s Tasmanian devil thing, I think it’s adorable, often hysterical, and sometimes needed. When I do *not think it’s needed, of course, I huff “What a meanie!”, but I still think it would be Objectively Wrong to get all Randle Mcmurphy about it and insist he be a ‘good’ journalist by sitting quietly in front of a teleprompter, calmly reading talking points from ‘both’ sides and designated minority groups in a monotone, soothing voice. That might break my heart, actually, which is why your push in this direction is so continually perplexing to me.
Nic, following your format:
– I am in no way implying that Glenn is an across the board realist. That couldn’t be further from the truth. On my imaginary spectrum with “realism” and “idealism” endpoints, Glenn is about as close to idealism as you can get. That particular example about impartiality just happened to be a more pragmatic approach.
Won’t lie, I’m not well versed in the attributes of a “relativist” so I’ll defer to your judgment.
– My point was that people typically expect to be treated fairly and justly, wouldn’t you agree? Therefore there is an expectation of “impartiality.” Maybe it wasn’t a perfect example since some people may desire preferential treatment but that was not the intention of my point.
– Agreed. It’s merely an ideal and something to strive for if you so desire. During my time here at TI, I have never conveyed that there is a single, objective and impartial solution to the nuanced issues discussed around here. To the contrary, I am rather peeved by self-righteous individuals who portray their opinions as if they are irrefutable facts.
– [Referring to part starting with “So if we can’t agree there…”] It appears this graf is not applicable as I do not believe the above. I am pretty floored that you’d even consider that based on my comments, especially this article’s because I’d like to think that my analysis is rational.
I disagree with your assertion that in trying to represent all sides there is no single point of view being expressed. I see this as something that can be achieved if the effort to do so exists. Maybe not in a single article but in a body of work. For example: Nic is a reporter for TI on the National Security beat. In 6 months you have 20 articles on the Snowden/NSA matter. If all 20 of your articles have the same theme throughout – that NSA is merely out to crush our civil liberties, I have a pretty solid argument that you are not an impartial source.
However, I am not deluded. I understand that some people simply don’t give a rat’s ass about impartiality. Look at Fox News for example, their viewers simply must not care! I also acknowledge there are benefits to both outrage and advocacy media, which I consider many TI articles to be. They help fire up their viewers and make them interested in the news. But they have some undesirable traits like appealing to emotion, being partial, hostile and spinning existing news articles.
– Greenwald is good at what he does, there is no doubt about that. When he debated Dersh and Hayden months back, he had zero help from his Reddit ally and still managed to win! His debate skills are top notch and some of his reporting has been damn good (the most recent being the article about the “NSA Five”) My compliments to him often go unnoticed and that is to be expected. But I will not be deterred by anybody around here from criticizing what I believe is shoddy work like this NPR one. As my punchline around here goes: Think of my critiques as “adversarial commenting.”
Hey Nate,
I think the crux of our differences here is in this word “impartiality”. I have not heard you give a definition of this, you seem to take it as a given that this is a solid concept that exists, it is simply up to us to find it, like miners panning for gold. We know what gold is. We know what impartiality is. It’s a matter of finding it. I do not agree. I do not think impartiality exists. Not ‘it’s impossible to achieve’, rather, it doesn’t exist at all in any ‘real’ sense, which is a different proposition – but if you would like to debate that point, start by giving me your definition of the word.
In that light, look back on your posts and replace ‘impartiality’ with ‘the holy spirit’, and you’ll see how they read to me. I’m not saying that you have to agree that those concepts are similar, of course, this will just give you an idea for my frame of reference in reading your posts (I have, funnily enough, read and heard similar thoughts on ‘living in the spirit’, so it seemed like a good pop culture example). Living fully in the holy spirit is an ideal to strive for, it’s not that we expect anyone to fully achieve it. And certainly, people who are overly assured that they are following the commands of the holy spirit can be the worst of all – we will all make mistakes when trying to hear the spirit, we will all have to live with uncertainty and be ever self-critical. (Don’t judge me, I really loved that book The Shack, ok? ;) Some of this is taken from that. Also my time in a Bible Church.) It’s best not to be deluded – there are people out there who simply don’t care about living in the spirit, and they will try to lead you astray. They will call on other parts of your nature to deceive you – it may seem like the spirit, but if you look closely, you will realize it is not the spirit.
Again – I am not saying “Obviously this is what ‘impartiality’ really is, Nate” – just, this is how your posts look TO ME. Hopefully knowing that will make communication a little clearer and easier. I was stumped on the idea of listening to the voice of Jesus in Bible study. Everyone talked about it like it was just this ‘thing’, like “Oh, yeah, of course, the spirit of Jesus, we can all tell when we’re living in that when we’re really honest – I mean brutally honest – with ourselves”. And I always thought “Do you not see a problem with this logic?!” I feel rather the same way about your objective impartial viewpoint, which you seem to believe exists. I don’t rule it out, but then, I don’t rule out that my Bible church friends were truly ‘living in the spirit’ either.
As to ‘shoddy’ work – I do think you should criticize it, if you see it. I wish everyone in the world could be a bit nicer and more considerate when they criticize, but that’s a personal preference. I also think you should be free to shout your own point of view from the hilltops, either on this site or other forums. I just think you shouldn’t confuse those two things. “Shoddy” does not equal “a different way of looking at things”. Glenn doesn’t look at the world the way that you do – he doesn’t look at the world the way I do, either, although to me this makes him sort of exotic in a good way. To you, maybe that makes him a weapons grade dick or someone who makes a few good points or a mixed bag or any number of things – my point is that is your viewpoint, not some objective standard for ‘good’ work. (Hmm… now I have Colors of the Wind stuck in my head, thanks a lot Nate… ;) ). Walks off humming “But if you walk the footsteps of a straaaaanger…” in a dramatic manner.
My Critique of Glenn’s Article [Part 2]
Potential Conflicts of Interest and Guilt by Association
One of the parts of Glenn’s report that I found most compelling was the part that Recorded Future’s board has members of the CIA’s investment arm on its Board of Directors:
A conflict of interest is (Wikipedia): “A situation occurring when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation.” I could not find a list of Recorded Future’s Board Members to confirm this. Are there still Q-Tel personnel on the Board? Are they current or former Q-Tel personnel? Coram Nobis was kind enough to look up some financial information that indicates that Board Members include Rich Miner from Google Ventures and Bernard Liautaud from nlyte Software Inc. Are there only two members? If so, how long have these two been there?
I think it is important to point this type of information out, but I disagree with the notion that a potential conflict of interest should result in the dismissal of this report’s contents. Think of it this way, I believe that Glenn Greenwald himself, faces potential conflicts of interest when reporting on Snowden related articles because he simultaneously has to “protect his source” while having an obligation to us – the public, to give the news fair and straight. Just because the potential conflict of interest exists, does not mean I ignore Glenn’s articles or dismiss them outright. I just am a hell of a lot more skeptical of the contents as you all know and decry. Other things to consider on Recorded Future’s relationship with In-Q-Tel: (1) how deep are the connections between In-Q-Tel and Recorded Future, (2) How deep are the connections between In-Q-Tel and the CIA/NSA/FBI/IC? In-Q-Tel says in their tax filings that they are “bound by a charter agreement with the CIA.” What does this charter dictate?
The gulf between a legitimate concern about conflicts of interest and committing a “Guilty by Association” logical fallacy can be thin. Return to the example of your friend giving you a research paper you disagree with. One means to shred his report would be to attack the people around him or her (ad hominem). So instead of diving into the content, you accuse this person as being a shill because they work for a non-profit that receives or even depends on federal funding such as a grant. You see that the non-profit’s board has a former federal official with ties to the granting agency. These could be legitimate concerns but should they be the BASIS to dismiss the contents of the person’s report. NO! You’ve resorted to cheap attacks.
Didn’t we already beaten this dead horse back when Pando had it’s big “scoop” about Omidyar’s investments in Ukraine!? Pando’s article contained pieces of an ad hominem attack as does Glenn’s story now (I’d say Glenn’s is much more egregious than Pando’s) Does Omidyar’s investments mean that Glenn cannot comment candidly and truthfully on the conflict in Ukraine? As I said before, maybe you should add some skepticism to a report but this information would not justify throwing Glenn’s Ukraine article straight into the shredder. Pando was freaking out in it’s report: is Omidyar in Glenn’s ear influencing him!? What is Omidyar’s role!? To me – I don’t give a shit because unless I can prove or at least provide evidence that Glenn’s reporting is influenced by Omidyar, I would not have a foot to stand on.
Yes, In-Q-Tel, an investment arm of the IC, invested in these private companies. Ok…so what? Are these companies now financially dependent upon In-Q-Tel’s continued funding? We don’t know. We don’t even know how much money they received!
Did Snowden’s leaks lead to or contribute to AQ changes in Encryption
I read Recorded Future’s entire report and Glenn’s entire response. I am of the opinion that Recorded Future’s report makes an interesting argument and if I was forced to choose, I’d say that Snowden’s leaks resulted in changes to AQ’s encryption overhaul. But does Snowden really deserve full blame for that!? I do not think so. I think that the benefits of Snowden’s leaks outweight the consequences. If in the process of informing Americans of the intelligence collection processes, Al Qaeda realizes how vulnerable it is, that is a risk that I’m willing to take. As Glenn says, Al Qaeda already knew our capabilities at some broad level but is it really that implausible that obtaining that information would jumpstart changes? As for blame, some belongs to Snowden but most to the NSA. Their secrecy is what turned these revelations into world-wide outrage. They helped construct this environment and now they face the consequences.
My Critique of Glenn’s Article [Part 1]
Here is a synopsis for those who don’t have time to read the whole thing (and holy hell was this long, Glenn – toss us a freaking bone and throw in some damn headers and subheaders!):
The Argument and Key Players
The key argument revolves around Government claims that Snowden’s leaks led to changes in how terrorists communicate. Here are the key players and positions.
* Dina Temple-Raston, NPR National Security Reporter. Penned the article titled “Big Data Firm Says it Can Link Snowden Data to Changed Terrorist Behavior.”
* Recorded Future, private tech company. According to the NPR article, the CEO heard the Government claims and wanted to see if it was really true. Using their analytics they found signs Al Qaeda had overhauled its encryption programs in late 2013 with 3 new encryption products. The CEO said this was not a coincidence and that it “amounted to good circumstantial evidence that Snowden had an impact.” He wanted to see how much so he brought in another private company called Reversing Labs.
* Reversing Labs, a cyber analysis company, reverse-engineered the newest Al Qaeda encryption to see how it changed over time. According to the NPR article, the old encyption software was more “home-brew” (in-house) while the new version used open-source code and was “therefore harder to break.” Their report claims that the “complexity and timing of the software upgrade is important.”
* Bruce Schneier, technologist and fellow at Harvard. He was included at the end of the NPR article and says it is not clear whether Al Qaeda overhauled its encryption program due to Snowden or because of the normal course of software development and technological changes.
* Glenn disagrees with Recorded Future’s report’s hypothesis, clearly dislikes Temple-Raston’s article, thinks Recorded Future is “a CIA-dependent company devoted to spreading pro-government propaganda” and that Reversing Labs is merely a “CIA Partner.”
Glenn’s Lack of Analysis of the Report’s Actual Contents
One thing becomes immediately clear, in Glenn’s mind, there is ZERO chance in hell that Snowden’s leaks led to or even contributed to Al Qaeda’s change in encryption. To convey this to his readers his goal should be to refute Recorded Future’s report. Generally, this does not occur…
First, parallel this matter to something we all have encountered. Let’s say a friend, colleague, or random person drops on your desk a research or opinion paper and your job is to provide a critique. You read it and absolutely disagree with all its contents, evidence, and conclusions. What is the best way to convey that disagreement? I’d say that you’d be best served by going through the report line by line, commenting on the passages, facts, citations, analysis, and conclusions you disagree with. Glenn simply does not dedicate any significant time in this epic-length article to doing this and therefore fails to make his point.
The only actual critiques are deep into the article:
(1) Glenn points out that chronology alone is not evidence of a causal link (i.e. that “A precedes B” is not evidence that ”A caused B.”). True, but this was already acknowledged by Recorded Future. Specifically, the NPR report said that to the CEO of Recorded Future, their analysis “amounted to good circumstantial evidence.” Circumstantial, not to be confused with direct evidence. Further, a Recorded Future report says: “Al-Qaeda (AQ) encryption product releases have continued since our May 8, 2014 post on the subject, strengthening our earlier HYPOTHESIS about Snowden leaks influencing Al-Qaeda’s crypto product innovation.” This is proper disclosure and it is backed up with information for us to critique! This does not strengthen Glenn’s argument at all!!
(2) Glenn says that Recorded Future admits that “in 2007 Al-Qaeda (AQ) had one encryption product (Asrar) for one platform (PC) which has since been periodically updated (e.g. in 2008).” They claim there was a “significant uptick” after the Snowden reporting but still offer no evidence of a causal connection nor any explanation as to what “the terrorists” learned from those reports that could help them better safeguard their communications or that would provide added motivation to shield those communications.” This is just redundant of number 1, and furthermore the purpose of the report was NOT to glean what the terrorists learned from Snowden’s leaks; don’t take my word, read the initial report and see for yourselves (https://www.recordedfuture.com/al-qaeda-encryption-technology-part-1/)
…
10,000?words to admit you are afraid.Pitiful.
Who am I afraid of so I can act the part when I see them?
I can’t listen to NPR anymore. It’s soothing, upbeat presentations sounds surreal to me given the reality of the situation in this country. Their reports seemed aim at upscale baby boomers and are presented to re-enforce their self-involvement and provided a “don’t worry, everything will be ok” veneer over any real serious issue. With some exceptions, NPR is to News what Obama is to the Presidency.
While I can accept the premise of this article, there is still a danger that the Snowden documents, by revealing the vastness of the spying apparatus, will completely demoralize the terrorists. This might not appear to be a great cause for concern, but what if they retire and abandon terrorism completely? How then to generate the paranoia that fuels the funding for the vast network of secret agencies and private security contractors? Recorded Future, ReversingLabs and Google all have to make a living.
But in reality, the damage is order of magnitudes greater than this. What about the non-terrorists who are now taking measures to ensure their privacy; they were conveniently left out of the article. More journalists are using encryption, more lawyers are being discreet in their communications with clients and even government officials have cut back on their sexting. In order to govern, a government must control, and in order to control, it must have information. Snowden’s revelations have helped undermine the very foundation of effective government.
If that’s the definition of “effective government”, I prefer an ineffective one.
Keen points sir.
Let’s also remember that Al-Qaeda isn’t even an existing entity anymore. It’s split more than a dozen times along fifty ideological lines. There are much larger threats to the United States, most especially ISIS / IS, which has attracted most of AQ’s former fighters and leadership. The actual group “Al Qaeda” has struggled significantly and is no longer the preferred brand of global jihad terrorism.
There was once a period, somewhere between 2005 and 2009, where you could say “Are you a member of Al Qaeda?” to a Muslim fellow and get an affirmative answer – those days are long gone. No self-respecting “terrorist” is going to align with that yesteryear club of old men.
How the hell is a few thousand pajama clad desert fighters,with no aircraft,and no means of attacking US,a threat?(A question about 13 years old)Grow up,grow some cajones,or the feminine equivalent,and man or woman up!Jeez,its pathetic,the fearmongers.
I am not sure if you meant it to be so, but it appears you believe the foundation of “effective government” is based on the governments ability to conduct mass surveillance of its citizens. I think effective governments that conduct mass surveillance are totalitarian based regimes whose citizens live in fear of the police state. I think the US Constitution is an effective foundation of government. Unfortunately, insurgents have been working hard to subvert it at all levels of government.
What you got right is that citizens are now aware of the illegal, unconstitutional, unethical and immoral activities of their government and many are now using at least some countermeasures and/or abandoning companies that have collaborated with the insurgents.
…The Bullrun program, according to the documents, “actively engages the U.S. and foreign IT industries to covertly influence and/or overtly leverage their commercial products’ designs” to make them “exploitable.” By this year, the Times reports, the program had found ways “inside some of the encryption chips that scramble information for businesses and governments, either by working with chipmakers to insert backdoors or by surreptitiously exploiting existing security flaws.”…
Personally, I think it is not wise to use rely solely encryption tools that are common except as the surface layer encryption. Content should be encrypted a second time using some half-baked customizable encryption method. The more customizable encryption tools made available the more resources that “effective government’ must expend to decrypt the content. And, 99% of the time what they will have expended resource to get will be worthless. The goal of every liberty minded individual should be to encrypt, encrypt, encrypt and use various methods, including half-baked methods….
Great Comment.
NPR is a pathetic shadow of what it was in the 1970s and 80s. It’s great that you’ve responded to this one instance of their now-standard agitprop. However, in your rush to catalog their 50 shades of of FAIL, you buried your best argument against this kind of propaganda….. the same way they buried Schneier’s rebuttal.
“It is certainly possible that some extremists, like ordinary users all over the world, are more conscious now than before about the need to secure their communications—just as some extremists became aware of interrogation techniques they may face if detained by virtue of reporting on American torture (which is why torture advocates argued that such reporting also helped terrorists).”
We don’t refrain from reporting on torture because of ANY possibility that it might “work”. It is recognized as a dark “cure” worse than any disease. Shining a light on it is always the correct response.
Careful reporting on warrantless, law-evading mass surveillance is inherently right in exactly the same way and to the same degree. You do not need to itemize the twists and wiggles in this piece of state-sanctioned agitprop in order to defend your most critical Snowden revelations. Doing so at length may suggest otherwise to those who’d prefer it was so.
Revealing warrantless mass surveillance is right. FULL STOP. Revealing federal agencies’ efforts to wreck encryption protocols is right. It requires no caveats. We all use these goods, in the righteous conduct of our daily lives, whether we know it or not. We are all injured by the casual disrespect of those whose bills we pay when they use our wealth towards these ends.
If you want — for the mere pleasure of it — eviscerate this crummy, tainted piece of work from Radio Moscow. Delineate the evidence that their beet harvest data is inflated, and that the Glorious Comrades they quoted are swilling slops at the Beltway trough. But, do it as an exercise in critical thinking only.
Don’t let it interfere with your main points.
Well said…
Hasn’t NPR always pretty much been a government mouthpiece? As a Libertarian I agree with a few things on NPR but not too many as NPR’s fix is always more and bigger government that works smarter. I figured out long before I worked for the government, that the government screws up pretty much everything it does and almost never works smarter. Most government offices are run by the 1/3 of the work force, the other 2/3 are leeches that do just enough to keep getting a paycheck (and that isn’t much work). Lew Rockwell put it best and I’m paraphrasing: Since government by nature is corrupt, the only way to reduce government corruption is to reduce government.
Good info Glenn, but who is sitting at the center of the web?
Trolling now.
Who the hell do you think you are asking pointed and ‘conspiratorial’ questions like that on OUR patron saint’s website? That is just blasphemous, and WE will have no more of it! Cease and desist NOW.
Fabulous research and reporting. It’s a valid question whether “terrorists” pay attention to these revelations and change tactics but the question of whether the attempt to prevent EVERYONE from engaging in unmonitored communication is worth whatever intelligence is obtained is more important, IMHO. Obviously, a lot of people have changed their ways of communicating on-line and people are targeted for doing so (by using TOR or any other encryption). If you don’t want us to read all of your communications, you must be guilty of something. It has profoundly changed the relationship between people and government and institutionalized a mutual distrust because EVERYONE is a potential terrorist.
Of course, it was supposed to be a one-way mistrust because we were never supposed to know about any of this. Even if it someday has some impact on a terrorist plot, is it worth it?
More than a decade ago (Cir 2002-2003), I worked along side of a colleague who had previously worked as consultant for the DIA. It was his contention that, at that time, al Qaeda was using JPEG images to communicate between cells online. By subtlety manipulating hexadecimal strings of numbers that corresponded to imperceptible variations in the tint and shading of the colors in the image’s constituent pixels, operatives anywhere in the world were able to compare variations in the hexadecimal encoding of two seemingly identical images to derive the mathematical variation between them. Upon acquiring said difference, they then used a simple substitution cypher to reconstitute the resultant hexadecimal string into its alpha-numeric equivalent. Detection of this method allegedly resulted in one of the earliest CIA armed drone attacks on a vehicle in Afghanistan that killed a number of “alleged terrorists.” Further curious still is the fact that US intelligence agencies are said to be the progenitor of this method of clandestine communication.
Interesting stuff. I’m not one who subscribes to the idea that intelligence agencies have some pre-planned ulterior motive to control their own citizens through surveillance. It is just an inevitable by product of wielding this kind of power to control the flow of information. Mission creep… We’ve already morphed from the noble cause of trying to identify real terrorists to keeping extensive watch lists to manipulating the web to support their own causes and intimidating journalists who don’t tow the line. Pretty soon subtle manipulation of hexadecimal strings of numbers (or something of that sort) will become the only way to communicate privately for any of us and it will turn us all into either sheep or potential enemies of the state. An all-powerful government and democracy simple can’t co-exist.
This is an excellent x-ray into the “how” of things.
Thank you.
Next question, “who”?
Apparently institutional awareness (self-defense) attempts to regain credibility (the “why” of it) but there are so many, many examples where credibility is simply sloughed off, (yellowcake, anthrax labs, numerous miscalls, 9/11 misses, ISUS, etc.) that institutional credibility seems selective rather than imperative.
Yet they’re going to an awful lot of trouble to maintain this “damaged the US” nonsense. Who decides its importance?
I posed the same questions – in not so many words – farther down the thread, and got vilified for it.
But certainly a man of stature as you are will get a more thoughtful and reasonable response…
You got “vilified” for asking, “this is news to you?” You didn’t, “pose the same questions.” Wiltmellows comment speaks for itself … as does yours. If Wiltmellow gets a “more thoughtful and reasonable response” it will be because he asked a thoughtful and reasonable series of questions, backed by using examples. You did none of that.
Then you ask some good questions.
I like when people vilify me. When deserved, I learn something. When not deserved (almost always!) I dig deeper into my premise and find new connections.
Hey, I know that experience very well. Either way some new aspect of the whole is revealed. In my case, not deserved vilification propelled me to deeper understanding of myself and others. Akin to rebirth or something – an old Greek myth brought to life again.
NPR is mostly funded by grants from corporations (Mobil, etc) and foundations (Forde,etc). Public funding has diminished substantially since Congress became increasingly dis-enamored with its reporting. The turmoil at the top (precipitous exit of CEO’s) at NPR is reflected (infected?) in today’s reporting. Once a divergent viewpoint from MSM, NPR is now simply slick radio. (Even Robert Segal has been infected.)
And let’s not forget:
Booz Allen Hamilton (NPR_AnnualReport_2010, looking for something more current)
http://www.npr.org/about/annualreports/NPR_AnnualReport_2010.pdf (page 26)
And those corporations and foundations have every reason to want to control the propaganda stream. They *are* the government behind the front men from the president to the entire Congress. They are all involved in the corruption, at both ends – scheme initiation and reward reaping once the crime’s completed.
Philanthropic foundations provide ways for the exceedingly rich to shield unearned income from taxes, and fund projects that promote US interests, too often of the sort that ordinary people will never benefit from. The killing in Ukraine now devastating lives there, was triggered by such funding of seemingly innocuous intentions.
“It’s the job of media outlets to scrutinize [pro-government tripe],not mindlessly repeat and then glorify [it] as NPR did here.” — Yeah, but “National” “Public” Radio, right?
Great piece, Glenn. Keep exposing those bright shining lies.
Glenn Greenwald. Let me help you figure this out. This female reporter is nursing a grudge against you. There is a Youtube clip of you and her fighting. She sounded very angry and hostile at you because perhaps you once criticized her reporting or something while you were at Salon. This bias reporting of hers now is entirely motivated by her dislike of you. I am 100% convinced.
Another instance of American self-absorption. Spying by governments is rife in that part of the world. (Probably in any part of the world.) Any secret organization worth its salt is trying to fly under the radar of its own local government’s spying apparatus, with protection against NSA snoops being just a natural result of normal procedures. Updates and improvements will be normal events, not completely new measures taken in panicked response to revelations about the NSA. But Americans are perhaps the people most likely to believe that anything that happens in the world is a direct response to what happens in America. So it’s easy to fool an American audience with a claim that an update of the “terrorist” encryption software is a significant change in “terrorist” communication resulting from the Snowden revelations.
Thanks, TI, for pointing this out. And for reminding us that our much-bragged-about free press has more frequently let us down than served its function.
“And for reminding us that our much-bragged-about free press has more frequently let us down than served its function.” – tortoiseshell
http://www.ted.com/talks/hubertus_knabe_the_dark_secrets_of_a_surveillance_state
http://www.ted.com/talks/hubertus_knabe_the_dark_secrets_of_a_surveillance_state/transcript
” “…the Stasi often used a method which was really diabolic. It was called Zersetzung, and it’s described in another guideline. The word is difficult to translate because it means originally “biodegradation.” But actually, it’s a quite accurate description. The goal was to destroy secretly the self-confidence of people, for example by damaging their reputation, by organizing failures in their work, and by destroying their personal relationships. Considering this, East Germany was a very modern dictatorship. The Stasi didn’t try to arrest every dissident. It preferred to paralyze them, and it could do so because it had access to so much personal information and to so many institutions. Detaining someone was used only as a last resort. ”
These tactics are already being employed in the U.S. The program is known as neo-CoIntelPro by some, as its official name isn’t known. Yet. And I’m guessing that it isn’t NPR or Dina Temple-Raston who will break the story.
Perhaps it will be someone from “The Intercept.”
” But why did the Stasi collect all this information in its archives? The main purpose was to control the society. In nearly every speech, the Stasi minister gave the order to find out who is who, which meant who thinks what. He didn’t want to wait until somebody tried to act against the regime. He wanted to know in advance what people were thinking and planning. The East Germans knew, of course, that they were surrounded by informers, in a totalitarian regime that created mistrust and a state of widespread fear, the most important tools to oppress people in any dictatorship. ” -Hubertus Knabe
“And for reminding us that our much-bragged-about free press has more frequently let us down than served its function.” – tortoiseshell
Well said “tortoiseshell.”
http://www.ted.com/talks/hubertus_knabe_the_dark_secrets_of_a_surveillance_state
“…the Stasi often used a method which was really diabolic. It was called Zersetzung, and it’s described in another guideline. The word is difficult to translate because it means originally “biodegradation.” But actually, it’s a quite accurate description. The goal was to destroy secretly the self-confidence of people, for example by damaging their reputation, by organizing failures in their work, and by destroying their personal relationships. Considering this, East Germany was a very modern dictatorship. The Stasi didn’t try to arrest every dissident. It preferred to paralyze them, and it could do so because it had access to so much personal information and to so many institutions. Detaining someone was used only as a last resort. ”
These tactics are already being employed in the U.S. The program is known as neo-CoIntelPro by some, as its official name isn’t known. Yet. And I’m guessing that it won’t be NPR or Dina Temple-Raston who will break the story.
Perhaps it will be someone from “The Intercept.”
” But why did the Stasi collect all this information in its archives? The main purpose was to control the society. In nearly every speech, the Stasi minister gave the order to find out who is who, which meant who thinks what. He didn’t want to wait until somebody tried to act against the regime. He wanted to know in advance what people were thinking and planning. The East Germans knew, of course, that they were surrounded by informers, in a totalitarian regime that created mistrust and a state of widespread fear, the most important tools to oppress people in any dictatorship. ” -Hubertus Knabe
Then and now.
A transcript:
http://www.ted.com/talks/hubertus_knabe_the_dark_secrets_of_a_surveillance_state/transcript
“they’re likely using tools like Tor and PGP”
Since PGP is proprietary code and not accessible for examination by disintrested third parties, it’s more likely they are using GPG, which is open source.
I had to chortle at the porno terror message crap,and the declaration of unlikely,(sic).
The MSM don’t eat it up,they prepare the meal and serve it to the unthinking,ignorant and fellow members of their screeching choir.
Question: Who are the specific In-Q-Tel Board members?
Turns out that In-Q-Tel is a nonprofit, which is to say, a charity. Which means, among other things, that they have to file an IRS Form 990 and stuff like that. There’s also a wikipedia page.
http://nccsweb.urban.org/communityplatform/nccs/organization/profile/id/522149962
Isn’t that interesting?
PS. Page 9 of the 990 for 2013 shows only one source of income (or at least, donations): $82m and change, “government grants.” (Page 7 shows officers but it’s a rather odd organizational structure.) Schedule D, starting about 20 pp. in, shows about $108m in investments — securities and whatnot — yielding maybe $8.5m more in income for that year.
Lots of interesting stuff, Nate, Glenn.
Fun fact: nonprofits, AFAIK, don’t pay Federal taxes.
Good sleuthing, coram! This records the funneling of a half penny from each man, woman, and child in America, into an aggregated amount of a few million into the pockets of a favored few. And this is multiplied by an unknown factor to magnify wealth exclusively for the chosen people. No wonder the debt ceiling has no limits.
What a scam! And how damn charitable of us!
PPS. Some interesting narrative material starting 39 pp. into the 2013 Form 990. I guess they don’t call it Schedule O for nothing.
Thanks for looking Coram. I had seen that BusinessWeek areticle but not the In-Q-Tel filings. I did a cursory search in some of them for the names of these private companies but to no avail. Anyways, I did a long analysis above that included some of the info you found, so i appreciate it.
Questions to ask include, what exactly are the securities in their portfolio. And why, for that matter, is a nonprofit charity handling IC investments and government technologies? I would’ve thought this would be a job for Goldman Sachs and Raytheon respectively, to name two well-established examples.
You’d think they wouldn’t want to handle this stuff in-house after the Trailblazer/ThinThread affair.
Yes, that’s why this headline in business as usual – Charitable-giving IRA tax break likely to be renewed by Congress
And because some middle-class people with enough income to itemize deductions love that tax break, that fact is used as cover for the true intent of the charitable giving deduction. But who’d ever expect that charitable giving could engender negative (for humanity) outcomes, and that the Corporatocracy *knows* it does?
And here’s Recorded Future, complete with a link to its home page.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=104756879
It’s a private company, which by that I assume it’s not a publicly-traded company (no SEC Form 10-K) nor a nonprofit (no IRS Form 990). But this may answer some questions.
Wouldn’t it be funny if GCHQ were intercepting my emails and you never had a clue I was stuck in this silo cracking corn until it covered my face and I’m drowning in my own BS, Glean? But instead you are just being ugly and mean or too lazy to clean your own mismanaged pool filters. See, I’m one code cracking bitch, myself.
Take the time to contact NPR and tell them how you feel about this type of “reporting.” I did, both to their editorial board and their ombudsman.
Of course cynics will say that it will never help – despite evidence to the contrary of reporters and even major news agencies changing their tune when confronted with enough blow-back from their readers.
The NPR ombudsman is here.
*Apologies if this comes up duplicated – I tried two links in one post – which was working not long ago….
The generic contact for NPR is here.
Our government and our media all work to the the benefit of Israeli interests. That is the bottom line.
And against the American peoples interest,in every way.It’s traitorous,and deserving of firing squads,though I’d just banish them to Israel,punishment enough,the land of bigotry and hatred,incorporated.
{“revelations from former NSA contract worker Edward Snowden harmed national security and allowed terrorists to develop their own countermeasures.”}
You threw the Prosecution out of the courtroom before they could even present their full argument Mr. Greenwald. I always say that the best defense is a good offense. You are a great defense attorney.
I particularly like the data that you provided regarding “CIA’s investment arm, called In-Q-Tel, and Google Ventures.” My my….and how will Google attempt to exclude themselves from deliberate collusion as an arm of the US Government surveillance state now? Excellent work.
The icing on the cake of course is your unstated implication that it might be same “folks” that write the GCHQ and Jihadis Operational Security Manuals. So then….will the real terrorists please stand up now.
This is by far, one of your best and damning works yet. Thank you.
Almost forgot to add a link which does help to identify the “real terrorists.”
See: “The War on Terror is a Fraud”
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/09/war-on-terror-is-fraud.html
“From the beginning, even for those wanting to believe the fairy tale that 9/11 was carried out by cave dwellers carrying box cutters directed by Osama Bin Laden, who by all accounts was dying or already dead from kidney failure in 2001 – “unfortunate blunders” in US foreign policy can still be blamed for the creation and perpetuation of the ubiquitous, unceasing terror organization known as Al Qaeda. However, in light of recent events in Libya, Syria, Iran, and Algeria, there is exposed a truth, many have known for over 10 years, and many more are catching onto now – that the “War on Terror” is an absolute fraud, started, fueled and simultaneously fought against by the same handful of corporate-financier interests for the sole purpose of spreading Wall Street and London’s hegemony across the globe.”
This was probably released as they are aware that Snow-den has been given a longer stay in Russia, and not only that, he can now travel. Meaning he can travel to places outside of Russia that are friendly to him and also be more vocal in his revelations of information in the media. This is probably to try and make him look bad, before he really lets off a storm of great elaboration about how privacy and the Constitution are being rewritten in America.
“Recorded Future”
They really should have chosen a more accurate corporate DBA … Like “Cooked Science”, or “Snake Oil LTD”. You know, something catchy.
Many thanks for this invaluable further evidence revealing the extent of NPR’s deceptive and pro-establishment bias — NPR is still respected by many who have [rightfuilly] dismissed the “MSM” as worthless shills. Like PBS’s Newshour, NPR is protected by its ‘thoughful’/’intelligent’ branding, which so many lefties conflate with liberalism and superior morality
I have to give credit where credit is do… I believe that this is one of the best articles that Glenn Greenwald had written in some time. Good work Glenn.
Take the time to contact NPR and tell them how you feel about this type of “reporting.” I did, both to their editorial board and their ombudsman.
Of course cynics will say that it will never help – despite evidence to the contrary of reporters and even major news agencies changing their tune when confronted with enough blow-back from their readers.
The generic contact for NPR is here.
The NPR ombudsman is here.
Glenn.. you and you colleagues continue to expose the pablum produced hourly by various media outlets, that focus on the continued dumbing-down of the public into a pile of silly putty… Thank you..
I’m sure it would NOT be hard to expose Ms. Temple-Raston as just another corporate shill placed where she ‘could have a very serious impact on some members of the public whom are skeptical but trust PBS implicitly ‘.. It’s getting harder and harder to find out ( or know with our VERY limited attention span ) who is telling us the truth. It’s also becoming clear that fewer and fewer folks ARE telling us the truth…
Thanks (all at the Intercept) for your on–going attempt….
Why can’t I upvote? Stupid comments system…
Worth revisiting:
“What NPR means by “reporting””
“The “liberal” radio network presents a “news report” on Iran that would make Bill Kristol proud”
by Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/2012/03/27/what_npr_means_by_reporting/
“There’s one prime reason why Americans are so uninformed about what their government does in their name around the world (Why do they hate us?). It’s because “news stories” from “even liberal media outlets” like NPR systematically obscure those facts, disseminating pure propaganda from America’s National Security State masquerading as high-minded, Serious news.” -Glenn Greenwald
“Big Data Firm says it can link Snowden Data to Changed Terrorist Behavior”
Worst Headline Ever.
No seriously, let’s break it down.
“Big Data Firm” – newspeak for company which hoovers up information. Says nothing at all about what it can actually do, what’s it’s speciality is apart from hoovering up information. It’s like calling a bank a “Big Money Company”, or Facebook “Big Internet Company”.
“Says it can” – Perhaps the one useful part of the headline, flagging that it is a report that will uncritically repeat corporate spin.
“Link” – Ah yes, link. A favorite word for spinmeisters, it covers everything from a very close relationship to the most tenuous connection. Am I linked to Kevin Bacon? Who knows.
“Snowden Data” – Ok, Snowden released data. How wonderfully anodyne. Maybe for reasons of brevity they chose “data” rather than “revelations”, but ok, at least this is not misleading.
“Changed” – rather like “link”, “changed” can be almost perfectly flexibly applied. Are they using iphones rather than blackberries? Then they’ve changed. A word that even in context tells you nothing.
“Terrorist” – definition: who the government says is a terrorist.
“Behavior” – See “Link” and “Changed” above. The ultimate tractable phrase. Beating off twice a week now instead of three times? Technically that’s a behavioral change.
I will however try to be helpful, and suggest actual informative headline:
“CIA Contractor’s PR Department claims they see people who may perhaps be bad people, no-one really knows, doing stuff now that they weren’t doing a couple of years ago. Dina Temple-Raston is impressed.”
tl;dr
Thats what they all say to Greenwald. Is it a compliment?
The title is absolutely fine and 90% of your points are ridiculous. Go take some meds.
I take it back, maybe the title is just fine for an article so transparently ridiculous.
The idea that there is a proveable causal link between (a) the publication of a Snowden story, and (b) a change in behavior by a particular group of people; and that this can be extrapolated into a clear trend… afraid I find that absurd, and quite amazing that a reporter is willing to be taken in by it.
Nice job eddie.
It seems that some people replying to your post think that the headline “Big Data Firm says it can link Snowden Data to Changed Terrorist Behavior” is the title of Glenn’s article and not the NPR article.
I’m not sure how, but there seems to be some confusion.
Yup, I immediately thought that when I read PI’s dismissive comment. She’s a super-smart cookie, and I think she just erred here, as we all do from time to time.
eddie-g:
Excellent, excellent deconstruction of the NPR article’s headline. Love it!
Ya know I do remember reading that article (confession, I do check the NPR news site—– I know, I know, they’re suspect at best, but believe it or not, I do see articles on some topics I might miss – and can check on them further with other sources), sort of “filing it away” — KUDOS to Glenn for calling them our for not revealing that CIA connection.
NPR and PBS should take out the word PUBLIC in their name and replace it with CORPORATION.
More and more little by little they have become ANTI-PUBLIC SERVICE.
I am retired now, but have been listening to NPR and the PBS News Hour (what it is called now) since they came to the air waves. It was once the “alternative news”. We were informed about the world in ways the big corporate stations would not touch. NPR and PBS were once actually a public service. Once the corporations got a hold of them they were doomed as a public service. They are now a corporate and elite mouth piece. Talking heads, government propaganda spokesmen, elite think tank explanations for everything, justification of horrific, no backbone and no real effort to get at the root causes of events. It is now a propaganda machine just like ABCCBSNBCFOXCNN and their kind.
For those who don’t have the contrast for what they were in the beginning I might seem extreme. But let me tell you people, NPR and PBS have sold their souls to the corporate government establishment. They now take their lead from international arms dealers, agribusiness, GMO drug dealers, and those elite donner$ that have a clear and destructive agenda for the America people in general.
We are an uninformed population being told lies, we are being manipulated to go in their direction of thinking and acting, we are being controlled like children, and the worst is that we are being asked to give up our soul just like NPR and PBS have done.
IS ANYONE LISTENING?
I am listening. You are right, sir.
I used to listen to and watch NPR/PBS news with a specific interest int their reporting on US death squad activity in Central America during the 1980s. It wasn’t great, but Reagan had silenced the NYT on the subject, and the rest got in line. There was plenty of material in print on the subject — Dr. Chomsky wrote extensively about it — but PBS was the only mainstream TV network to touch it. (I found the NYT’s editorial stance odd because hordes of Sandinistas were approaching the Rio Grand River, according to the Gipper. Such an event was certainly newsworthy, even by NYT standards.)
I watched PBS News sometimes because I was naive, there was a shortage of credible mainstream news sources, and they were reporting on some subjects I was concerned about — not because I agreed with their narratives. As its whoring became increasingly obvious,I lost interest, then moved out of their broadcast range for many years. I’m back for a little while, and have seen snippets of PBS. I see they’ve gone from bad to Fox.
Well…actually NPR and PBS started accepting PAC funds for commercials back in 2011. There really are no USA MSM outlets that the US Government doesn’t control either directly (FCC) and/or indirectly through funding. If one is curious regarding the US mainstream media monopolization and consolidation in the United States, check out this link: “Who Owns the Media?”
http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart
Thanks for that link, Lyra1 – much appreciated.
First Look Media can be the new NPR and PBS, or source of “alternative news,” as you describe. As long as First Looks funding has no agenda but actual news and the illumination of the reasons behind the actions and claims of the powerful, who the hell needs NPR?
First Look may have to invest in a radio station though.
NPR – Neocon Public Radio
Goddamn, Glenn, but this take-down is a thing of beauty! You are Chomskian in your attention to fact and logic. Rock on.
This was AWESOME!
So, the fact that NPR (and all of mainstream media) is just another propagandist mouthpiece for the CIA/NSA/MOSSAD/GCHQ/alphabet soup, etc, etc, etc, surveillance state we live in is news to you? Really?
So glad you know everything. I wonder that you take the time to read the article and even comment on it, since you find it so superfluous.
I suppose you have a link to *your* story contesting the veracity of Temple-Raston’s disinformation and your effective take down of NPR’s credibility. Where I live, NPR is THE most listened to radio station, and brainbots absorb the lies and re-spout them as if they are Revealed Truth from on high.
The more voices there are doing what GG does, the better. Oh, but then, it’s much easier and less time consuming to criticize, isn’t it?
I know everything because I’ve followed Glenn for years, but it’s always the same old story – we’re all fed bullshit by the government and their corporate media machine partners. That is a given. But what is the end-game, and who are the Real Players?
You are living in the End Game. Things may get “better” or they may get “worse” for the mass of people, but those who want to control things will always try to control things. You are right now living in the midst of this constant effort to control … everything. That IS the end game. Power is the goal and maintaining that power. Re-read 1984.
Here is the endgame.
You are aware. Most people are not. Making as many people aware of the systemic corruption within government and media IS one of the end goals. They don’t report for only you. They report for a largely sleeping citizenry who has long been bombarded with propaganda. Not difficult to digest.
And don’t get me wrong, they also report to a very savvy and intelligent audience.
The article is loaded with specifics. I don’t see anywhere in the article where Glenn Greenwald expresses any evidence at all that he is a naive about NPR. He in fact has a long history of pointing out specifics about NPR’s collusion with the government and government sources.
No.
see also
Yes, Glenn, you’ve got me – I am definitely ‘inspired by Satan’!
Glenn, regarding this constant criticism you get – http://www.eschatonblog.com/2014/07/savvy.html
The only reason I began reading your work was because it voiced the very concerns I had, and have – concerns I arrived at after decades of watching the scene known as American Politics. Among many excellent journalists, no other was dealing with my concerns so directly and clearly. So, as I’ve said before, please don’t stop, and as you progress in your thinking I hope your analysis will deepen and expand to describe the entire crime scene. I’m trying hard to hang on and I hope to be around when that day arrives.
If you are at all worried about Glenn going away:
http://twitpic.com/d24k3u
No, certainly not worried that Glenn’s going away, not very soon anyway. Rather myself. I’m trying to hang on so I can witness what he does in the future.
This comment of mine, nested under PI’s response to you, was intended for you, not him.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/12/nprs-dina-temple-raston-passed-cia-funded-nsa-contractor-independent-fear-monger-snowden-reporting/#comment-67873
Oh FFS. Search engines are your friend.
What NPR means by “reporting”: The “liberal” radio network presents a “news report” on Iran that would make Bill Kristol proud by Glenn Greenwald, MAR 27, 2012
NPR’s domestic drone commercial by Glenn Greenwald, DEC 6, 2011
Now, how do you feel about the evisceration Greenwald just performed on NPR vis-a-vis RecordedFuture? Excellent stuff, no?
Knew this would happen. I gathered links to Glenn’s previous work on NPR, and in meantime Glenn himself and others made the point before I posted.
Anyway, Marian, yours is an inane response to a fine piece of reporting by Glenn and Andrew Fishman.
I have read and appreciated Glenn’s work for years, and agree with all of his sentiments expressed in his reporting. My comment was an expression of frustration at the continuous exposure of the manipulation of the public by government and media, but no real connections to the real players behind this game, and no real ability to do anything about it. That’s all.
Tell us who the real players are since Glenn can’t do it.
Isn’t ‘Concern Trolling’ now relegated to the same category as “Anti-Semite’ and “Conspiracy-Theorist’?
Nice try, though. Not looking for a fight, but you seem to be…
No.
(Also, there are actual anti-Semites, and some allegations labeled as “conspiracy theories” are true.)
Mona, I think Marian Berryman embodies the bitterness of the jaded cynic. She can’t comprehend the work of a cynical journalist who has not surrendered or abandoned his ideals.
You may be right, but how many times do we need to hear that “the British are coming!, the British are coming!” before we pick up arms and fight back against the real enemy?
Or maybe I see the utter and absolute futility of the rehashing the same old stories…
Your “concern” (trolling) is duly noted.
I appreciate it. As Glenn gathers a larger audience, as he is doing, more and more people are becoming informed by this important reporting. If this bothers you, so be it.
GG’s revealing a great deal of information that much of the general public is ignorant of; information regarding how little *real* information gets to them due to government control and manipulation of information. That is the real work of the journalist. The conventional press has reneged on its journalistic duties to the public. And GG’s reporting is spurring a resurgence in real journalism.
But because you want to be hand delivered heads on plates, you find fault. Well, I feel fairly certain you know a few names. Submit them. It wouldn’t surprise me if GG picked up on them and, down the road apiece, reported what he discovers regarding their criminal activities.
That’s one of the differences between what a good journalist does and what the stenographers who pass on polluted information do – honest responsiveness to the public s/he serves.
Marian Berryman, it is news. I think you are trying to say, “I already knew all of this stuff.” Although, I doubt you knew everything that was written into this article. It is a complex piece that comes from researching the timing of events spanning around 13 years. The Author would have had to look through a good amount of his own notes as well as finding quotes from a handful of sources. Just because you know something does not mean that the rest of us should move on and not discuss that anymore. Maybe you should be a journalist and let us in on your profound understandings.
yes. “knowing” something and knowing something are very different things….
“Influencer Map” sounds a like a special Super-Duper-Decoder Ring.
I heard this report and immediately questioned its veracity. I’ve heard more and more questionable reporting from NPR. What connection is there to the recent decision by US government to legalize propaganda, because this sure smells of it.
Of course DTR would do this — you embarrassed the hell out of her on at least one occasion, in which she tried to claim you didn’t have the expertise to report on national security. It was a snotty question at some relatively recent event. It’s on YouTube somewhere.
I mean, let alone all the overdetermined reasons a DTR would think and act like this, even minus the personal animus. Which, come to think of it, might not even be personal-career-related but just flakking you.
Here is the epic exchange in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2RxQpESxoI&feature=youtu.be&t=2m5s
She tried to pull rank on him (“you don’t do this for a living”), and in his devastating response, he revealed her to be a stenographic shill. It must really gall her that Glenn subsequently went on to become the most famous national security journalist in history.
Dina Temple Raston’s reports all sound as if she’s sitting around the campfire, making smores, and telling ghost stories.
*super whispery voice*
“…. And it turns out the call was coming from inside the house!! But Snowdens leak prevented the NSA from tracing the call, so the babysitter was brutally murdered… by terrorists. Dina Temple Raston, NPR news”.
Cut to Steve Inskeep howling with laughter and making a bad pun.
It is a rare day when Inskeep doesn’t get his on-air chuckle, is it not? It’s just a minor annoyance, compared with the major flaws in the actual reporting, as discussed here by Glenn, but *damn* I get tired of it.
Glen,
Thanks again for exposing the methods our government, and their media lackeys, go to, to keep the people in the dark.
Pity so few media sources are picking up and reprinting your findings.
I suppose it will take time…
Minor correction:
“Then there are the bizarre implications from embracing the claims of the Reported Future report.”
“Reported Future” should be “Recorded Future”
Fixed. Thanks.
OK, so public radio is a fraud. But there’s still no reason to doubt that public education, pensions, healthcare, etc. are efficacious. No reason for the government to propogandize those
If this isn’t snark ;( …well, I’ll assume it is – for sanity’s sake, \o/ .
I accidently posted without finishing then gave up. I would have made it much more obviously snarky. Was intended at as a lighthearted jab at Glenn. Probably would have been better if I was funny and able to use the basics of the comment system.
Here in Texas a new idea is beginning to sprout – declining the Fed’s billions it’s receiving for public education, and getting the thought control out of our children’s formative years. A step toward liberty and a very good idea IMO.
It’s a spectacularly bad idea and a step towards a permanent underclass. But that’s the goal.
“But there’s still no reason to doubt that public education, pensions, healthcare, etc. are efficacious.”
No doubt they are “efficacious” — but to what end? The measure of institutional value isn’t efficiency (a standard no government agency even pretends to achieve) but rather the end result of its operations.
To stated ends, measured by their stated “measurables.” So take any of the ones I mentioned, including the all-pervasive “etc.” program, and compare the “end result of its operations” to its stated “measure of institutional value.” That way you can agree with me, even if you think “efficiency” or whatever isn’t a worthy goal.
This seems to imply that private is any better at any of those things, and they are not. Quite the quandary.
You almost certainly meant to say “contrary” instead of “quandary.” Given that, you might understand why I do not want wish to debate the merits of different economic institutions with you, and why I am anti-democratic.
Maybe you meant to say “quandary.” I don’t know. You can’t just go around changing idioms and expecting me to understand the resulting statements.
“You don’t need rocket appliances to get two birds stoned. Make my words.” Ricky, Trailer Park Boys (bastardized by Macroman)
Glenn, I don’t know if you know this, but after WW2 under operation paperclip, the US brought over the people who worked directly under Goebbels to maintain his massive propaganda machine. They were brought over in order to teach the CIA exactly how to use the media to control the democracy. CIA Director, William Colby, was quoted as saying, “The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.” They should be confronted and investigated for this statement, and their promises made after being investigated by the Church Committee, should be reviewed, as well they should be investigated for every time they used the defense of national security that turned out later to be very untrue. It is simple to document in recent history how the media was used in coordination to distribute lies that led to a war that has taken the lives of a million Iraqis and has bankrupted our country while making people in the Bush Administration very rich.
The media has to be held responsible if we are to expect any change in this country. It is the lynchpin to all things being allowed to function as it should. It is the role of the media to follow news to its natural progression in pursuit of justice. William K. Black says that one in seven dollars is illegally made. Just like before the French Revolution, sustaining an ever consumptive class of people is showing its strains, cracks, and faults that puts all of civilization at risk. Such thievery and such unfairness in the distribution of resources can no longer be sustained, and for this reason, having a working media and a justice system that pursues all types of crime is of the utmost importance.
There is much evidence of the controlled media regularly ignoring the tenets of good journalism, taking part in acts of malpractice, propagandizing in coordination with the military (which is illegal), obstructing justice by not reporting stories of criminality in govt, taking part in opinion selection and fact suppression, denying people their first amendment rights, taking part in war crimes and crimes against humanity by supporting the lies of the Military Industrial Complex that has cost so many lives and squandered tax payers’ finances.
The media must be legally challenged for their culpability in the destruction of America that has put it 7 trillion dollars in debt. They should be held responsible for their malpractice with their important role to a democracy functioning correctly emphasized. It must be restated that the public being well informed is essential for it to run correctly. To lie to the public in matters of great social importance and of national security should be considered an act of treason against the democracy. Also, corporate law requires that corporations do all it can to make as much money as possible. A shareholder can show that the media’s practice of doing bad journalism, pushing lies, ruining their brand, lying to the public, ignoring stories, all have a deleterious effect on readership and thus profits and they can be sued for it.
Pursuing legal responsibility of the media to put out truth is the establishment’s greatest fear and is a rallying cry to the public because of its obviousness and natural popularity. To fix the media we must also press for subsidization of investigative journalism, restore the Sherman Antitrust Act, and demand that Affirmative Action be imposed to make the leadership diverse. Please, call me. 310 597 2980. I need protection. You can read my writing by googling blueskybigstar. Help. I’ve sent you stuff before, which I do believe you used in a presentation.
And Goebbels got the ideas from Walter Lippmann and Edward Bernays, two authors every journalist should have read, if they ‘re competent. And if they have read them but aren’t busy exposing manipulation, they’re worse than incompetent, they’re malicious.
Not to mention Operation Mockingbird
Government funded and controlled media shilling for the government. Who could ever have seen that coming?
They should get rid of NPR. The government funding the press is a conflist of interest. Or would be if the American press remembered that whole watchdog adversarial thing.
I think you’re missing the whole point of having an “independent” media
I heard that report from Ms. Temple-Raston and remember shaking my head. It is not just the willful misrepresentation practiced by the reporter and her editors. That should be clear to even the casual listener. But any person with an ounce of reasoning ability understands that professional criminals and actual terrorists would never trust, and have never trusted, any of the common means of communication. They more than anyone know our phones and computers are, and have been for many, many years, under the scrutiny of governments. I hope Ms. Temple-Raston is at least paid well for what amounts to rewriting of press releases.
Konstantin, I did the same. Listening in my car to this report on NPR, I only hoped (because hope and journalistic reporting are necessary ingredients that can slowly turn this shit boat around) that the level of critical thinking is on the rise in the masses, so that, at least, the younger generations will have their own “question authority” buttons to pledge allegiance to. The large number of quasi-intellects who give snide comments here on the site is not exactly uplifting – please sit as often as possible with at least 3 persons of different ages and nationalities and talk about these issues. This will be my only comment here. I think some others should take a break from the screen and spread the word.
“any person with an ounce of reasoning ability understands that professional criminals and actual terrorists would never trust, and have never trusted, any of the common means of communication.”
Well put – and this behavior has been going on for decades – literally.
That a person who “actually reports on national security issues” (Dina Temple-Raston, as opposed to Mr. Greenwald, et .al) even assigns their name to this “breath-taking development” tells us more about the reporter, as well as the editors at NPR.
You’re brilliant, Glenn, as evidenced by the following exchange with Dina Temple-Raston. If only we could clone you:
“Glenn Greenwald’s Infamous Battle with NPR’s Dina Temple-Raston ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2RxQpESxoI
“At a 2010 conference at NYU called “The Constitution and National Security: The First Amendment Under Attack”, National Public Radio’s Dina Temple-Raston takes issue with Glenn Greenwald’s characterization of Anwar al-Awlaki’s free speech rights. An awkwardly funny, enlightening exchange ensues.”
Andrew Fishman, Thank you for this article and your good work, as well.
Aw, there we go, I knew it was coming. If I were Glenn I’d have that exchange permanently linked, as a kind of video post script, to every article Id ever write, like seriously, for the rest of my life. It’s that good.
He should continue to embarrass her and “reporters” like her at every opportunity.
I was just about to post that video too. It reveals her mindset quite clearly, doesn’t it? Glenn is just absolutely beautiful to watch, I have to say. He just demolishes opponents with the force of his clarity. He’s unbelievable. I’m so happy he’s on our side.
testing
Another example of a previously efficacious source. NPR joins Guardian, NYT, WaPo et al, as formerly reliable and trusted outlets. That much is clear. What’s not clear is just whom to trust going forward.
“Another example of a previously efficacious source. NPR joins Guardian, NYT, WaPo et al, as formerly reliable and trusted outlets. That much is clear. What’s not clear is just whom to trust going forward.”
Unfortunately true Ben. I find myself removing bookmarks to previously reliable news sources on a regular basis.
I remember watching Bill Moyers on NPR years ago, before the encroaching corporate take over of NPR, particularly his talks with philosopher and educator Mortimer J. Adler, as well as other diverse intellects that offered a world view not seen on the main stream media.
That NPR has descended in both it’s editorial commitment to journalistic accountability with the hiring and reporting done by what are essentially shills for corporations and/or the government is just another tragic indication that it no longer cares about impartial, fact based reporting for it’s public audience – but rather in accounting to and carrying water for expanding it’s growing list of government/corporate employers.
” We acknowledge but one motive – to follow the truth as we know it, whithersoever it may lead us; but in our heart of hearts we are well assured that the truth which has made us free, will in the end make us glad also.
Mortimer J. Adler
What really aches, sillyputty, is NPR is a non-profit who relies on corporate donations and federal funding. It’s always been a worry that such influence might eventually ‘creep’ their mission statement.
Trust isn’t an available convenience to an informed citizenry.
Thanks for shining a light on the absurdities in Temple-Raston/NPR’s half-story. Your last paragraph says it beautifully.
[Side note–you mean to say: “…’B follows A’ is not evidence that ‘A caused B.'”]
Thank you for continuing to report on these matters. We all know that the information is more important than Snowden. But that doesn’t make Snowden any less of a hero. He’s one of us, a young person, who believes in transparency and was willing to risk his life to bring truth to the masses. History has a habit of immortalizing people like him. Rightly so, because it gives each of us an example to shoot for in life.
Excellent article once again documenting the fraud and deception of government/media collusion. The only problem is that articles like these allow people to continue to frame the ‘war on terror’ as some sort of noble cause rather than the pretense for maintaining the status quo that it is. ‘Stability’ is just a term used for supporting corrupt regimes instead of the people suffering under their oppression. You don’t have to support ‘extremist’ violence to denounce the ‘war on terror’ you just need to hold certain truths to be self evident.
There were no comments when I started reading this article (just posted). I’ll just go ahead and assume that during the time I spent reading, someone has already posted the YouTube link to Greenwalds epic face to face takedown of the MIC mouthpiece Dina Temple Raston. I really hope so.
This should be “B follows A” is not evidence that ”A caused B.” (Or “A follows B” is not evidence that ”B caused A.”)
@barncat – I believe you are taking the example literally, when it is a figurative desription of a logical fallacy:
Post hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin: “after this, therefore because of this”) is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) that states “Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X.”
In other words, the “A” and “B” in the example Glenn provides do not represent alphabet sequences, but are place-holders for “this event” and “that event.”
“After this, therefore because of this”
Sillyputty, Nope, barncat is right and that is why they changed it to “A precedes B.” Barncat is obviously aware that “A” and “B” are placeholders — that’s why he spotted the error. Your response was extremely condescending. I’m not sure how anyone capable of reading the article would have mistaken the example as dependent on alphabetical order.
@Macroman – actually, If you take the time to look, the link to the “logical fallacy example” which I provided (The Nizkor Project) does say “A” occurs before “B” – therefore “A” is the cause of “B;” in other words, using the same “place-holders” alphabetically as I described.
That the article has been changed for clarity is a good thing, as it was poorly stated in the first place.
That you feel that my reply to barncat was “extremely condescending” is your problem not mine; as I had no intention, unlike some, of patronizing or putting down another poster for any reason, and I’m not sure how anyone capable of reading what I’ve written can be mistaken about this.
“Being condescending is an unintelligent way to make yourself feel superior.”
– Timothy Correa
Wow. Let’s start over.
1) barncat correct.
2) sillyputtybrain wrong, sillyputtybrain don’t realize, act like barncat stupid.
3) macroman say sillyputtybrain condescending.
4) sillyputtybrain bring up alphabet again.
5) macroman at loss, concludes
6) barncat smart; should be like barncat; dont respond to sillyputtybrain in future.
Not sure you followed the above, it not being lexicographically ordered, but if you think the above is patronizing, that’s your problem. Love, Macroman
Note also that the article hasn’t been changed for “clarity” but accuracy and veracity. As in you demonstrably still have no clue what you’re talking about. “If you take the time…” Oh who am I kidding, you probably still won’t get it.
“Anyone capable of reading…” was supposed to convey the point that, since BARNCAT could read the article, he could understand the fallacy. Obviously (and hilariously), you’ve dispelled that belief. But my first comment did not patronize you, just so you know. Here are your grades for the semester:
Reading comprehension, F
Logic, double F
Composition, C, just so I don’t have to read your drivel next semester. Hugs and kisses, Professor Macroman
“Being condescending is an unintelligent way to make yourself feel superior.”
@Macroman:
First, barncat has never had a problem speaking for themself – so if barncat has a problem with what I said or how I said it, it’s between us.
Secondly, you have proven most definitely that you are unable to comprehend what you read – much less that you can read the minds of others. You are incapable of either reading and/or comprehending anothers words without inserting your own spin as to what someone meant, and you therefore have no credibility when it comes to assigning grades for any comments that are made.
Lastly, it’s been a pleasure reading you sharing your thoughts with yourself on here, so please continue – there’s never enough narcissistic commentary to go around.
” There are all kinds of stupid people that annoy me but what annoys me most is a lazy argument.”
Christopher Hitchens
Just to clarify, you still think barncat’s comment was mistaken? If so, I sincerely apologize for picking on you. Well out of line to laugh at the disabled, especially for an adult. Won’t happen again.
Seriously, Dina what’s her name needs to stop messing with shit she sucks at. Maybe try puff pieces that warm the cockles … Glenn, you have handed her ass to her more than once. I think she has some self-awareness and internal work to do ….
Dina Temple-Raston literally speaks breathlessly in her report, almost whispering. “The program got … a … maaajor overhaul.” Shhh
I would like to see Dina Temple-Raston post comments here on “Glenn Greenwald’s Blog” about her report aired on NPR.
Point the First: You’d think by now D T-R would expect scrutiny of her claims and calibrate her propaganda catapult, er, couch her reporting more carefully. And, you’d think that there might be an NPR editor or two who might encourage her to do so. Apparently, D T-R is still operating in a fact free, and convenient amnesia, zone and NPR is happy to allow her to do so.
Point the Second: I imagine you didn’t relish writing this take-down, Glenn, but I suspect you had a certain energy that provided the impetus for this pointed rebuttal.
Point the Third: Now to email this response to all those people I know who think NPR does “real” reporting. And, I’ve the endless array of Yeah, but…s to look forward to and deal with.
NPR and its sort-of counterpart, the BBC, are both in the crapper as far as I am concerned.
Wonderfully researched article. As for Temple-Raston, what an appalling abrogation of journalistic responsibility.
I wonder if the NSA and GCHQ ever say to themselves- if only we had protected innocent people from this invasion of privacy, it would be business as usual today. Snowden would never have leaked the documents if they were only going after terrorists.
The problem with the NSA protecting innocent people from this ubiquitous and Constitution violating surveillance is that the surveillance has always been intended as an attack on privacy of the innocent.
The US Gov has always stoked the flames of terrorism. It is US policy to fund terrorists and and destroy states with chaos and violence. In the US, we call it spreading freedom and democracy.
So the surveillance is not designed to stop terrorism, and it never was. Terrorism is, and has always been, a pretext for US Empire policy machinations.
@ Isaiah Earhart:
Precisely.
See: “Are There Any Terrorist Groups Who AREN’T Paid Foot Soldiers for the U.S. Military-Intelligence Agenda?”
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/are-there-any-terrorist-groups-who.html
Well that’s depressing. Glad I’m not American! Still not feeling safe in my own country from the spy agencies. I hope to see more reporting on other countries soon.
Wonderful reporting boys. Show the bastards for what they are. In what way can the average american such as myself help to spread this information?
Excellent reporting, thank you kindly.