The last time Elizabeth Warren was asked about her views on the Israeli attack on Gaza – on July 17 – she, as Rania Khalek put it, “literally ran away” without answering. But last week, the liberal Senator appeared for one of her regularly scheduled “office hours” with her Massachusetts constituents, this one in Hyannis, and, as a local paper reported, she had nowhere to run.
One voter who identified himself as a Warren supporter, John Bangert, stood up and objected to her recent vote, in the middle of the horrific attack on Gaza, to send yet another $225 million of American taxpayer money to Israel for its “Iron Dome” system. Banger told his Senator: “We are disagreeing with Israel using their guns against innocents. It’s true in Ferguson, Missouri, and it’s true in Israel . . . The vote was wrong, I believe.” To crowd applause, Bangert told Warren that the money “could have been spent on infrastructure or helping immigrants fleeing Central America.”
But Warren steadfastly defended her “pro-Israel” vote, invoking the politician’s platitude: “We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.” According to the account in the Cape Cod Times by reporter C. Ryan Barber, flagged by Zaid Jilani, Warren was also asked about her Israel position by other voters who were at the gathering, and she went on to explain:
“I think the vote was right, and I’ll tell you why I think the vote was right. America has a very special relationship with Israel. Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world, and a part of the world where there aren’t many liberal democracies and democracies that are controlled by the rule of law. And we very much need an ally in that part of the world.”
Warren said Hamas has attacked Israel “indiscriminately,” but with the Iron Dome defense system, the missiles have “not had the terrorist effect Hamas hoped for.” When pressed by another member of the crowd about civilian casualties from Israel’s attacks, Warren said she believes those casualties are the “last thing Israel wants.”
“But when Hamas puts its rocket launchers next to hospitals, next to schools, they’re using their civilian population to protect their military assets. And I believe Israel has a right, at that point, to defend itself,” Warren said, drawing applause.
Warren even rejected a different voter’s suggestion that the U.S. force Israel to at least cease building illegal settlements by withholding further aid: “Noreen Thompsen, of Eastham, proposed that Israel should be prevented from building any more settlements as a condition of future U.S. funding, but Warren said, ‘I think there’s a question of whether we should go that far.'”
In her defense, Warren has long been clear that this is what she would do. Her Senate campaign website still contains statements such as “it is a moral imperative to support and defend Israel” and “as a United States Senator, I will work to ensure Israel’s security and success.”
During her time in the national spotlight, Warren has focused overwhelmingly on domestic issues, rarely venturing into foreign policy discussions. Many of those domestic views, particularly her strident-for-D.C. opposition to banks, have been admirable, elevating her to hero status for many progressives.
But when Warren has spoken on national security, she has invariably spouted warmed-over, banal Democratic hawk tripe of the kind that she just recited about Israel and Gaza. During her Senate campaign, for instance, she issued wildly militaristic – and in some cases clearly false – statements about Iran and its nuclear program that would have been comfortable on the pages of The Weekly Standard.
Even as conservative Democratic Senate candidates from red states such as Nebraska’s Bob Kerrey were vehemently condemning the threat of war against Iran during their campaigns, Warren was claiming (contrary to the U.S. Government’s own assessment) that “Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons”, adding: “I support strong sanctions against Iran and believe that the United States must also continue to take a leadership role in pushing other countries to implement strong sanctions as well.” Those claims about Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons remained her position even after she was told that they squarely contradict the U.S. intelligence community’s clear assessment of Iran’s actions.
In related news, the British newspaper The Telegraph yesterday published the names of all 504 children who were killed in Gaza over the last 50 days by Israel. In the last week, Israel deliberately destroyed an entire large residential apartment building after giving its residents less than an hour to vacate, leaving more than 40 families homeless, and also destroyed a seven-story office building and two-story shopping center (the video of the apartment building destruction is online and ugly to watch).
Echoing Benjamin Nentayahu (and Hillary Clinton), Elizabeth Warren’s clear position is that Israel bears none of the blame for any of this. Or, to use her words, “when Hamas puts its rocket launchers next to hospitals, next to schools, they’re using their civilian population to protect their military assets. And I believe Israel has a right, at that point, to defend itself.” Such carnage is the “last thing Israel wants.” The last thing. That, ladies and gentlemen, is your inspiring left-wing icon of the Democratic Party.


Liberalbob the ‘smear and character assassinations’ of persons whose rights are insulted by government agencies traditionally involved in criminal acts of torture and other abuses against innocent fellow citizens is a well-known, tired, worn and other overused tactic. It is a chapter in a torture manual and is an essential part of Psyops and it is implemented by employing services of carefully qualifying individuals. The qualification is that one should be devoid of all conscience; have a non existent morality; no scrupples; proclivity for vice; have profound disdain for the constitution and all the laws that flow from it; thrive in and derive happiness only through infliction of pain to others and experience extreme mirth at the suffering of others. Know anyone too close to you? But all it does is expose the emptiness of its practitioners. Has been used against every tortured person I know. It never works. Especially with me. Your ilk tried hard before at another place in a time gone by. To no avail. Because someone who tortures or aids torture, is someone whose ideas have no persuasive appeal because their content has no use for value to humanity. So none of the smear persuades. And largely because the public is not as dumb as you think. All the perps do is what you do best: try hard to project their depravity onto those who are their diametric opposites. All for a fee. Or praise. Or a coupon to Kentucky Fried Chicken.
So how is the pay?
Monsanto has been fined several times for criminal activity, but LiberalRob trusts Monsanto any way, same as he trusts Elizabeth Warren’s vote to Protect Monsanto. LiberalRob puts a lot of trust in Elizabeth Warren even though she defends mass murder and occupation and land theft committed by Israel. Those are the facts.
Two of the 10 Biggest Lobbies in Washington are The Pro-Israel Lobby and Agribusiness (Monsanto). Hmm….
http://www.businesspundit.com/10-of-the-biggest-lobbies-in-washington/
This is a false statement.
This is another false statement. Wanna go for the hat trick?
Your denial are meaningless in the face of, for example, this: “These are war crimes,” says father of Gaza family wiped out by Israeli airstrike
And This: But that didn’t stop Monsanto from bamboozling buyers into purchasing the illegal seeds. Just another article about how the criminal corporation, Monsanto was caught and fined for their criminality. Your “Let’s just wait and see'”whimpering doesn’t excuse your wanton ignorance. Your comment about activists screaming about GMOs is an example of your wanton ignorance, as if Monsanto has not been caught out over and over again for being in cahoots with government to push beyond the law and common decency for decades now.
No surprises here. Even Keith Ellison who, as a practicing Muslim really should know better, has supported continuing, and even increasing, military aid to Israel. At least he’s one of the very few (I believe Patrick Leahy and Barbara Lee are the only other two) that has publicly called for an end to the siege of Gaza. But, in continuing to support military aid to Israel, these so-called progressives are further enabling Israel to carry out these horrific war crimes, now and well into the future.
It’s REALLY time for change throughout Congress – time to put all of these tired old warmongers out to pasture where they all belong!
Considering the extreme antisemitism I see already displayed on your comment board, I find it hard to believe that you “moderate” comments. This thread is already close to calling for another kristallnacht. I can’t believe you think of yourselves as moral.
The takeaway is this: The goal is not to have heroes.
Lauren doesn’t want to drink but we are going to have drink a few because we are so sad she has to sit at home nd kick your ass on a daily basis.
Your u of Ill is a boring piece of shit and lauren quit reading it. Get a better example for Christi sake your a fuckin world reporter and you put queer shit online?
Here’s more of Israel “defending itself”:
https://www.facebook.com/docjazz/posts/10152658111955535
Facebook? Really?
Those news stories are reported elsewhere. It so happened that I found them consolidated when I browsing twitter this morning. Do you dispute them? Or are you just being a smug POS? Both?
Liberalrob, the message below is for you.
This one’s for you, Pat: get some help. You are delusional and it’s making your life hell.
Hello everybody. Off topic excuse me. It’s about the Ukraine conflict.
For a while now I have seen very different numbers reported for Ukraine army and militia, separatists, and civilian casualties. Also for refugees. I think the true number of all has been concealed, but that may change shortly. Less mainstream and activist sites have reported much higher numbers than the western media.
In a BBC article today however I think I see a change.
>War in eastern Ukraine: The human cost
– At least 2,593 people killed since mid-April (not including 298 passengers and crew of Malaysian Airlines MH17, shot down in the area) – UN report on 29 August
– 951 civilians killed in Donetsk region alone, official regional authorities said on 20 August
– In some particularly dangerous places, such as Luhansk region, victims are said to have been buried informally, making accurate counts difficult
– Rebels (and some military sources) accuse the government of concealing true numbers
– 260,000 people have fled elsewhere in Ukraine while at least 814,000 have gone to Russia.”
Rebels have reported up to 15, 000 Ukraine and militia killed.
Any thoughts?
*Rebels have reported up to 15, 000 Ukraine army and militia killed.
Not a tear to shed for the thousands slaughtered by Israeli war assaults, not even for the 50 entire families wiped out, not even for the 504 children or the 10,000 possibly crippled for life ? Her devotion to the zionist ideology overrides her humanity.and casts a shadow upon her soul. Cruelty is now kosher in Congress/Senate. Cruelty toward the Palestinians is now the new black, and Liz Warren is wearing it proudly.
It is now apparent to all that Elizabeth Warren is a tool of the Zionist political establishment. She, like the rest of her Congressional peers, is a traitor to the American taxpayer for givign away their money to foreign war criminal states, namely Israel.
“When there’s a horrible kidnap-murder, most govts prosecute suspects. #Israel illegally seizes vast tracts of land.”
https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/506776166666350592
It’ll be ok with Elizabeth Warren, though. So, no worries.
I expected more from her. Her statements are cynical and wrong. I was hoping she had the right stuff.
Warren is no dummy. She knows who pulls the strings in the US politics. If one wants to be successful in politics in this country one must tow the AIPAC line, absolute obedience to the wishes of Israel.
My apologies to all for posting this under this topic. My comment does not belong in this topic. But I need to talk to you. All of you here. Thank you.
Please go read this. We have no other outlet. Intelligence Committees of both houses (the Senate and the House of Representatives) are legally shackled from helping us because the activities that are hurting us severely day in and day out, are classified. This means that they have no access to the information about the activities, a legal place that gives them plausible deniability of the crimes, all of which in turn translates to the horrific reality that we have been effectively stripped of all recourse that the Constitution entitles us to, and stripped of all basic natural rights that are intrinsic in every human at birth, requiring no state to accord or take away. With no way to exercise our right to be heard, not to be deliberately hurt and injured and murdered, and to be free from severe abuse that makes the abomination that is ISIS look like a saint.
Please share this. Translate this. Disperse this. Email this. To the very ends of the world. So that humanity cannot say they did not know. When we finally succumb. Screaming. Here is the URL for the file I ask you to read. It has been removed from the internet. But you can still access it by googling the entire phrase “Nanodevices in mind control torture lefora”. Make sure you include the last word “lefora”. Thank you.
http://freedomfchs.lefora.com/topic/7442322/Nanodevices-Sensory-Overload-Mind-Control-Torture-Updated#.VAZAJRbbyko
Please take your medications as prescribed by your physician.
Neal Stephenson’s The Diamond Age was a work of fiction. There is no such thing as nanodust mind-control particles.
I take no medications and need none. How much do they pay in the ‘discrediting and smearing’ industry? Bet you should know. And yes, I would not wish even the likes of you the torment that many of us go through.
So, liberalrob, not only do you let Warren off the hook for her condonation of Zionist Israel’s standards of racism and blatant murderous cruelty, you yourself are cruel to someone you don’t even know who has told you of his/her suffering. Maybe you should get hold of whatever medication there is to cure dead souls.
Did you read that incoherent rant? Pat B. walks around in a haze of nanodust mind-control bots (the modern manifestation of MK-ULTRA) that are so thick she can taste them as grit in her mouth and fill her lungs making her cough incessantly; helicopters and planes in groups of three and up (squadrons sometimes!) constantly follow her around; she has grooves on her head that the government uses to torture and control her; and that’s just the start of her troubles.
Grooves, I tell you! Groo-oo-oo-oo-ooves!
Not all who exist in human form are human. They are not animals either. It would be insulting to all non-human animals to equate them with such entities. When you are devoid of all conscience and derive perverse pleasure in the suffering of others, you epitomize the reasons Gaza exists as we know it today. The reasons apartheid existed. The reason ISIS exists. They all need men and women who thrive on others’ suffering. And by their existence, provide the rest of us all the more reason to do everything we legally can to guard against predators of human freedoms. I feel dirty just talking to a perp…
Lauren wants you to know that the reason they use green for the eyes is because that’s the test color they use for the visual when the japs start infusing electrical charges in the eyes. Green is the first color you see…Lauren of course for to see a rainbow of colors
Follow the clichés.
From Orwell:
This is terribly disappointing !
I had high hopes for Warren ….
I can only hope that it’s because of lack of information that she can spit out such evil nonsense.
The Palestinian people are all freedom fighters trying to overcome an evil and illegal occupation that’s been going on for far to long !
(Note: The evil is the Israeli State and NOT the Israeli people)
I wrote to Senator Warren repugning her position on Israels bombing of Gaza. I couldn’t believe that she’d be that closed minded about the actions of Israel against what I consider crimes against humanity. I am appalled by her stance on this travesty and I will never vote for her again.
Don’t’ we eventually find out they are all intellectual frauds at some point? It still stings a little when all your hopes are dashed,… even if you know reform and reformers like this lady are really defenders of status quo,…. this should not be a surprise, but it is. Oh well,… this takes my list of decent politicians to 0. I can’t back anyone this morally bankrupt.
Besides stealing the most West Bank land in 30 years, Israeli forces kidnapped six Palestinians and physically assaulted two teenagers in West Bank districts on Monday. In addition, the Israeli army demolished seven residential and agricultural structures. Also: “At least four Palestinians were shot and injured with live bullets after the army stormed the Dheisheh refugee camp…”.
Israel understands that there’s no limit to the amount of evil they’re allowed to inflict on the Palestinian people. They know that even U.S. “progressives” like Elizabeth Warren will support them in all that they do, not matter how heinous their actions.
She is positioning to run for president in 2020 or 2024. Please don’t vote for corporate candidates now, then, or from now on.
I thought that I was a Warren supporter but don’t think I can’t be after this. She says that we badly need an ally in that “dangerous” part of the world but she’s completely over-looking the fact that the reason that part of the world has become dangerous is because of the actions of Israel–and US’s unquestioning support of Israel’s criminal actions.
Yes, she is that; there is no other who compares. Taking a DNC boilerplate position on Israel does not negate her work in trying to rein in Wall Street, which was her primary policy mandate when she ran for office. It may be a disappointing position, to be sure; but I’m not going to advocate throwing her out of the Left because of it.
“It may be a disappointing position”? You even tack on “to be sure” for emphatic effect. Your lack of ‘advocacy’ and your glib characterization of the occupation and slaughter of the Palestinian people as “boilerplate positions” that don’t rise to the level of “reining in Wall Street” reveals your true “position” in the matter. Also, your name selection of “liberalrob” and your use of the term “Left” in this context are transparently phony. You’re not fooling anyone, liberalrob.
I’m not trying to. Are you, “Tujays” whatever the f-ck that’s supposed to mean?
Because your reply, while full of froth and spittle, is utterly substance-free. I’m glad my “glib characterization” reveals my “true position;” that’s the point of commenting. Of course, I’m sure you don’t know my actual “true position,” preferring instead your conception of my “true position.” Which you carefully fail to state, I notice, or even raise an argument against beyond attacking my choice of pseudonym.
I don’t know what your definition of the Left is exactly, or why one needs to be defined as such in order to be against mass murder, but Warren also voted yes on the Monsanto Protection Act Read for yourself what a F grade that is for Warren. Bad enough that she is “Taking a DNC boilerplate position on Israel,” aka cheering on mass murder, but by voting for the Monsanto Protection Act she has cut directly into the sort of issue that you’re basically claiming you’re holding your nose for Warren for, because you think she’ll be on the right side of certain other issues. Wonder if we’ll hear anything from Warren about Israel stealing nearly 1,000 acres of land in the past few days. If we do, I wonder if she’ll “have to agree to disagree” with those who are calling it the theft that it is.
If we disavowed every Senator who voted in favor of the “Monsanto Protection Act” we’d be throwing out Tammy Baldwin, Sherrod Brown, Max Blumenthal, Ben Cardin, Al Franken, Kirsten Gillibrand, Tom Harkin, Jeff Merkley, Patty Murray, both Udalls, Sheldon Whitehouse, and Ron Wyden along with Warren. Would there be any Progressive caucus left in the Senate? Oh, and let’s not forget those champions of Progressivism who voted Nay: Tom Coburn, Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, Jim Inhofe, John McCain, Rand Paul(!), and Marco Rubio. Sorry, but life is more complicated than a single issue.
The statement was made that Elizabeth Warren can’t be considered Progressive, an “inspiring left-wing icon of the Democratic Party,” because she supports Israel. I beg to differ.
You keep trumpeting “disavow” and “throwing out” and other such final solution type shit. I’m calling Warren out for her stances on Israel’s mass murders and occupation, and on the criminal corporation of Monsanto. I’m not trampling her person, and I have no power, or even desire, to throw her out of whatever the hell your “The Left” is or your “Progressive” wing of the Democratic Party is. There is no Progressive wing of the Democratic party. You’ve chosen to be an apologist for all of the above. Live with that any way that you care to. If you want to claim that being a toady for Monsanto and a bought out mouth piece for AIPAC is The Left, that’s your pleasure. I can only express my opinion based on the facts and hope that it has some effect on others who might care to pay attention. If you want to back Warren even though she is for mass murder, why should Warren ever change her stance or speak truthfully on the subject. (I don’t believe she believes what she has said about Israel’s mass murder in Gaza). But the words and actions she has expressed are what she is spreading, and so until if or ever she changes her rhetoric and actions, that’s who she is. There is no way in hell or Earth that I would be an apologist for that.
Also on the Monsanto Protection Act: Natasha Lennard explains that the dupes in congress did not, as is often the case, even know what they were voting on.
What does Max Blumenthal have to do with the Monsanto Protection act?
Whatever Senator Blumenthal of Connecticut’s first name is, I thought it was Max…I can’t be bothered to look up every goddam thing, and it’s irrelevant to the point anyway.
Glenn and others are saying she’s not a progressive, not a “left-wing icon.” They’re trumpeting it, not me. And it’s going to take a heckuva lot more evidence than an off-the-cuff response to some guy at one townhall or one vote that many other “Progressive” or “Liberal” Senators also made to convince me that they’re right to do so.
Which is entirely Elizabeth Warren’s fault, right?
You’re not helping yourself out from comment to comment at all. Yes, in fact, Elizabeth Warren is paid well to know what she is voting on. So, yes, her vote protecting the criminal corporation of Monsanto is entirely her fault. But you’ve decided to let her off the hook for that too. Pathetic.
@liberalrob
Your attempt at minimizing Elizabeth Warren’s repellent statements as “off-the-cuff to some guy” is just lame. People are judged by the words and actions. We don’t have a choice but to assume that she meant what she said. In which case, she’s a phony and a racist who doesn’t believe that Palestinians have the right to resist Israel’s illegal occupation and siege.
I disagree.
And so are all those other Senators I listed, “liberal” lions all, yet curiously you single out Warren as particularly blameworthy.
She never was on it; I was blissfully unaware of that vote from over a year ago until you mentioned it. In any case, reading the text of the legislation it doesn’t look like that much of a roadblock to ending the use of GMOs if that’s your thing. It just says that they get to keep using them until a final determination is made on whether they should be regulated. So make sure they get regulated. Being Progressive doesn’t mean being anti-business or anti-science. And who do you think is likelier to be willing to hold Monsanto’s feet to the fire if it turns out GMOs are in fact harmful, Warren or Tom Coburn?
And you’re taking what she said and stretching it into something it’s not just so you can condemn her for not taking a position that’s political suicide. Good luck with that revolution, let me know how it turns out.
@LIBERALrob
“…you’re taking what she said and stretching it into something it’s not…”
I didn’t “stretch” anything. She was unequivocal in her statements.
Her statements did not say what you are saying they said.
she defends genoc?de aparthe?d ethn?c clansing and the deliberate targetting of helpless ch?ldren of journal?sts of a?d workers quakers mennon?tes usa c?t?zens all defended as the r?ghts of ?srael. how damned obscene godless and soulless can you get. frankly ? am tird of ?srael’s r?ghts and the wholesale denial of the basic humanity of palstinians and the wholesale censorsh?p of palestinians christian jewish sabean assyr?an samaritan druze malikite maronite monotheist bedouin sunni communist socialist palestinians any and all palestinians and their hungry children never allowed a voice on US TV. Only Israel’s r?ghts to k?ll.
Liberalrob is being so obtuse or dishonest of full of shit that I see no point in continuing this conversation. Warren’s inability to either read or understand legislation is indeed her fault. Warren’s inability or refusal to “hold Monsanto’s feet to the fire” is so long overdue as to make her despicable — no caveats. Warren’s inability or refusal to honestly assess Israel’s mass murder, occupation, land thieving is inexcusable and, again, despicable. Liberalrob has stated his position that all of the above is fine with Liberalrob. So be it. Long live Elizabeth Warren, Tom Coburn and Liberalrob as they stew in their collective schadenfreude.
Awwwww….
Actually, no, he hasn’t, but don’t let that get in the way of a nice rant.
…which I believe is essentially what I quoted above…
…because as we all know, one of the features of GMO corn is that it grows from seed to ready to harvest in a matter of minutes, and once harvested it gets processed into HFCS within hours, and by the next day it’s on store shelves in your 2-liter of Coke(tm). Too late!
The science behind the hazards of GMO food is not nearly as conclusive as the science behind climate change, so I’m not ready to jump on the bandwagon of banning GMOs just because some bunch of activists are screaming about it. If they’re right, the science will bear out their claims and then I’ll happily get on board. Right now, that’s not the case. And to get back to the topic, given that the science is not clear, I’m not going to fault Elizabeth Warren or anyone else for voting in favor of that legislation. The fact that so many loathsome individuals voted against it only reinforces my belief that it was probably a good vote.
Wow, @Tujays, Kitt and Seer – liberalrob really knows how to get your goats, doesn’t he? He’s just playing you guys like a fiddle.
She is a “representative” which giver her freedom to ignore us until the next election cycle.
Representation IS the problem. Time for direct democracy.
Why the hell are we still voting anyway? Lesser evils?
Screw all of them.
So a cryptic jew fighting wall street jews [ yeah right ] who defends jews whats new
Israeli Historian Describes Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine in 1948 (Nakba) – 6 min video
Dr. Ilan Pappé is an Israeli historian who was a senior lecturer at Haifa University from 1984-2007. His position as an Israeli academic gave him access to official Israeli historical archives. Through research this Israeli-born academic learned the truth about the Israeli narrative. This clip of a lecture he gave in the US clarifies what happened on 1948, a day we commemorate tomorrow May 15th as Yawm An-Nakba or “Day of the Catastrophe.”
??”It was suggested to them that so few years after the Holocaust it wasn’t a good idea to portray the Jews as murderers, expellers, looters, occupiers, and colonizers. This was a conscious decision by the political elites of the West to atone for what Europe did to the Jews in the Second World War. The price was very clear, the dispossession of Palestine.”
— Dr. Ilan Pappé
Thanks for exposing Elizabeth. She and Hillary eating at the same trough. A pity.
Thank you Glenn Greenwald for continuing to say the truth. It’s quite disappointing to realize that Elizabeth Warren is no different from Hillary Clinton and Netanyahu!
I do not understand how US politicians can live with themselves. What Warren said is equivalent to saying “I do not care how many people Israel kills, as long as they remain loyal to USA”
What part of what she said isn’t true? Maybe it’s possible that she’s better informed than you? Maybe her moral intelligence, which has shown itself on every issue from guns to financial reform, is working fine, and you are the ones who have been duped. Provide a logical reason how Israel should act differently that assumes a single standard (ie what would America do in their shoes). She sees the situation in the same way every previous American president has, and frames it in the same commonsense terms. Israel has nothing to gain from civilian casualties. Hamas has everything to gain from civilian casualties, including its own, and the Palestinians have turned down peace time and again, ratcheting up attacks whenever Israel concedes yet more land for peace. If Israel wanted to massacre Palestinians and seize their land, it surely could do so without risking much love lost from the world. Eventually, all you (editors, authors, and commentators) will trace back this phony narrative to its source: Islamic influence in Academia and the foreign press, operating through immigration (there is a direct correlation between Muslim population of a country and their stance on Israel) and, more insidiously, a rats nest of anti-Semites, Islamists, and haters of the West. There is room for debate; the biased claptrap posted as news is barely fit to print. The “gotcha” link has no contradictions and nothing false – Iran intends to pursue the bomb, and are still far away from it. She endorses sanctions, that’s not warmongering. My niece could write a better (and more truthful) article.
Glenn is angry at Elizabeth Warren because she voted for the aid to give to Israel for the Iron Dome defence system. He would prefer Israel has no missile defence system and so Hamas could kill thousands of Israelis with the over 4000 indiscriminate rockets fired into Israel over the past 2 months. And more than 14,000 rockets since 2005 when Israel withdrew completely from Gaza.
A Homosexual man like Glenn would be in prison or executed if you stepped foot in Gaza. Sharia Law does not take kindly to homosexual behaviour.
Whereas, Israel has a thriving Gay community. Gay Palestinians regularly seek to escape to Israel.
The results of U.S. aiding and abetting in crimes against humanity; sanctioned by unprincipled racist opportunists like Elizabeth Warren who shamelessly attempt to exploit the ignorance of the electorate for political gain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gVmbuRexhEY
This has to be the first time I’ve seen Elizabeth Warren called “racist.” And “unprincipled” is the complete opposite of what she is. Now, her principles may not be what you’d like them to be…
“These are my principles, and if you don’t like them…well, I have others.” -Groucho Marx
You state that Elizabeth Warren is principled. Presumably, you’re referring to her so-called ‘standing up’ to Wall Street and their lobbies to effect change for the benefit on main street. This of course is complete nonsense. She’s already completely caved in to the Israel lobby and she hasn’t even officially started running yet. Didn’t you read Glenn’s article? Her words are so far to the right they’re almost indistinguishable from Netanyahu’s; just like that other unprincipled Democrat who wants to be president, Hillary Clinton. Casualties are the “last thing Israel wants”. Give me a break.
If you don’t believe that she’s in the bag for Israel, then that means she genuinely believes that Palestinians don’t have a right to self-determination and the necessary right to fight against their occupation, besiegement, and the humiliating racist apartheid policies put in place by Israel. All of which are cyclically interspersed with horrific slaughters where thousands of innocent Palestinians are murdered and maimed for life; inflicted by Israel to show them who’s in charge to keep them obedient so they don’t rise up — aka Mowing the Lawn. As Noam Chomsky said, Israel’s Actions in Palestine are “much worse than apartheid” in South Africa. Consequently, Elizabeth Warren is deliberately aligning herself with a brutal regime which is inherently racist and can only be excused if she’s a racist herself.
You deny that her position in that regard is an example of being “principled?” (Which is a pretty useless term anyway…George W. Bush was “principled.”)
What is? You deny that she has stood up to Wall Street?
Really. You’re reading a lot into that one statement. That’s a pretty low bar for “completely caving in.”
No, I don’t believe she’s “in the bag for Israel,” and I don’t believe she believes that Palestinians don’t have a right to self-determination etc. I take the statement at face value, that she believes Israel has a right to stop rockets being launched. I can’t read her mind so I don’t know how she justifies Israel blowing up hospitals and schools to “defend itself” from these attacks; but supporting Israel’s right to defend itself doesn’t equate to supporting the manner in which it defends itself. I haven’t seen her say blowing up hospitals and schools is justified.
Best watch out who you tar with that brush…President Obama has also aligned himself with that “inherently racist brutal regime,” do you consider him to be a racist? And anyway, there’s no “excuse” for racism so I have no idea what you’re trying to prove by saying that. I get that you’re mad about Israel and anyone who even remotely tries to excuse their conduct is apostate and heretic for you. I’m not trying to argue that Israel’s actions are necessary and proper. I doubt Warren would either, if asked about specific cases.
Elizabeth Warren has amply demonstrated than she kowtows for the Israel lobby. By doing so, she has proven herself to be a phony. And that’s not just based on a single statement as you falsely claimed.
You also say that you “can’t read her mind” and that you “haven’t seen her say blowing up hospitals and schools is justified”. I asked you before if you read Glenn’s article and it’s now apparent that you haven’t. Either that, or you’re being purposely obtuse.
Why wouldn’t I apply the same standard to Obama? Do you think that black people are immune to racism? If so, then you’re also a racist.
Israel does NOT have the right to slaughter the civilian population of Gaza because Hamas fires rockets into Israel. Israel is illegally occupying Palestine. As stated by Norman Finkelstein,
“International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force”.
If Israel wants to effectively “defend itself” in ways that are both legal and moral, it would cease its brutal occupation and apartheid policies…in which case the Palestinian resistance would end. That fact the you and Elizabeth Warren can’t come to terms that and instead pretend that the rockets attacks were for no good reason — that they had nothing to do with legitimate resistance to oppression and murder — is morally depraved in the extreme.
“The refrain that Israel has the right to self-defense is a red herring: the real question is, Does Israel have the right to use force to maintain an illegal occupation? The answer is no.”
So you don’t believe giving unquestioning fealty to Israel in its theft of Palestinian lands, in its open air imprisonment of Palestinians, in its wanton brutality and killing of their children and themselves, is not taking the side of racists and is not racist in and of itself? If I were to voice my support of the KKK, you’d be the first to call me racist? No?
..is a lot to adduce from her saying “I believe Israel has a right, at that point, to defend itself.”
That is what the fuck she agreeing to by saying Israel has a right to defend itself. Israel is the fucking aggressor!!!! What about that can’t you understand?!!!!!????
It is not reasonable, rational, or liberal to support the stupendous deception Zionist Israel is pulling off. It’s past time Israel is called to answer honestly to the World Court for her crimes against humanity.
Oh, I quite agree. The United States needs to be there too, except apparently we don’t recognize the authority of the World Court except when it’s convenient, so that’s not going to happen.
Israel does not need to and should not commit crimes against humanity to defend itself. Yet it does have the right to defend itself. And that’s all Warren said.
@liberalrob
“Yet it does have the right to defend itself. And that’s all Warren said.”
She said more than that. Re-read her quote in Glenn’s article above.
You also still don’t get it. Israel is illegally occupying Palestine and therefore doesn’t have the right to use force to combat resistance to that occupation. If it wants to “defend itself” it would abide by international law and cease being the aggressor.
ARE HAMAS ROCKET ATTACKS ILLEGAL?
HRW Whitewashes Israel, The Law Supports Hamas: Some Reflections on Israel’s Latest Massacre
Jul 20 2014 by Norman G. Finkelstein
“International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force.”
Israel has to cease its brutal occupation and apartheid policies…at which time the Palestinian resistance would end.
“The refrain that Israel has the right to self-defense is a red herring: the real question is, Does Israel have the right to use force to maintain an illegal occupation? The answer is no.”
I’ve read it. It doesn’t say what you’re saying it says.
This is probably true in terms of the occupation forces. It is almost certainly not true in terms of attacks against targets that are not the occupation forces, which indiscriminate rocket attacks into areas outside the occupation zone necessarily are. Resisting occupation, illegal or not, does not grant you license to attack the civilian population of the occupier (as far as I know; I’m not an international law expert, but I’m not an idiot either (yeah, yeah) and that’s my opinion). Prof. Finkelstein carefully does not address that distinction, as it wouldn’t help his case. His analysis rests on an assumption- “[a]lthough claiming for itself the right of self-defense against Hamas projectiles, in fact Israel is claiming the right to maintain the occupation”- that is unproven at best (what Prof. Finkelstein says Israel is “in fact” claiming does not make it an actual fact) and irrelevant (if not fatal) to an objective analysis at worst.
Prof. Finkelstein is exercised that HRW did not come right out and flatly accuse Israel of war crimes. That’s his agenda, and that’s fine. I don’t disagree that Israel needs to quit slaughtering civilians, or that they are probably guilty of war crimes under international law. But I still maintain that none of that is incompatible with maintaining that Israel has a right to defend its citizens from attack, which is what Elizabeth Warren said, and ALL she said regardless of how much you’d like to construe it otherwise.
Finally:
This statement of yours (in paraphrase of Prof. Finkelstein) reveals a charmingly naive (in your case) or a blatantly disingenuous (in Prof. Finkelstein’s) reading of the actual situation. Merely ending the brutality and “apartheid” would NOT end Palestinian resistance, because those are not the only things causing Palestinian resistance. That doesn’t mean those aren’t necessary actions on the way to a final resolution of this.
@liberalrob
Elizabeth Warren is clearly justifying Israel’s bombing of hospitals and schools. Your refusal to admit that obvious fact reveals your obtuseness and myopia. You also assert that the Palestinians are not allowed to use force to fight Israel’s illegal occupation because they don’t process weapons with sufficient precision. In Finkelstein’s words:
Tell that to the Israeli’s. They’re the ones who’re killing and maiming civilians by the thousands. While you’re at it, go tell your BFF Elizabeth Warren as well. See what good that does. To her, two-thousand Palestinian lives aren’t even worth a single Israeli fingernail.
He does “address that distinction” and his analysis doesn’t “rest” on that “assumption”. You obviously didn’t read the article; or if you did you didn’t comprehend it. In any case, Israel has relentlessly proven itself to be the aggressive occupier that has not acted in good faith. It has done so a million times in as many ways for 66 years now. Only fools or the willfully ignorant won’t accept that basic fact.
Look at this way: If someone robs a bank, that doesn’t give the bank robber the right to kill or harm his victims if they’re attacking him in response to the commission of his crime. The only legal and moral thing for the thief to do would be to return the money (or other recompense) and hope the courts go easy on him. The victims are well within their rights to resist by all available means, particularly armed struggle.
Finkelstein addresses this in the article as well, but how would you know? Not having read (or grasped) it you idiotically chirp that it’s “charmingly naïve”, not realizing that you’ve completely mischaracterized his position. Like all of your responses, it reveals a shallowness that’s commensurate with the ill-informed and confused. Have at it. I think it’s good that you spew your nonsense since it provides the opportunity to expose the bullshit narratives promulgated by people such as yourself who enable the murder and oppression of the Palestinian people.
No, she clearly is not justifying those things and your refusal to admit that obvious fact reveals your obtuseness and myopia. If can’t agree on what she said then we’re not going to get anywhere.
This assertion of Prof. Finkelstein’s (“the apparent standard”) is his opinion of what the standard is (the ICRC’s definition seems clear enough to me), and in any case is irrelevant to the issue at hand: it’s not indiscriminate weapons per se it’s the indiscriminate targeting of weapons, purposely aiming them at civilians that is being alleged. I happen to think he’s wrong; an “indiscriminate weapon” is one that does not differentiate between civilian targets or military targets, either inherently through its area of effect or through its inaccuracy. The relative accuracy of a weapon to the most-accurate one is immaterial; but of course that doesn’t help his cause.
It is fortunate then that that is not the standard, nor does anyone assert that poor countries don’t have the right to defend themselves from high-tech aerial assaults. What they do assert is that poor countries don’t have the right to defend themselves by launching rockets into civilian areas, regardless of the provocation.
I don’t exonerate them in the slightest. Their actions are reprehensible. That doesn’t grant license to their victims to respond in kind.
Your slander just never ends. This is a false statement, and you know it is.
He doesn’t address that distinction and his analysis does rest on it. His thesis is that the Palestinians are justified in whatever response they make because the Israelis are brutally occupying them (which I remind you nobody, except Israel and our government, denies). I say that is incorrect.
That doesn’t grant a license to attack Israeli civilians.
It also doesn’t give his victims the right to gun down the bank robber’s family in an attempt to get him to stop the robbery.
Oh great, now we’re going to resort to the same argument recently used by Republicans against Medicaid expansion. I’m pretty sure the U.N. would not include resorting to attacking civilians among those “all available means.”
Because I read his article and didn’t see him address it?
…by quoting you. Here, let’s quote him verbatim:
That last bit is awful nice of him, but of course he and I both know that the “projectile attacks” ceasing simply because of the occupation ending is of a very low order of probability. Especially now.
…by calling for Israel to cease their brutality and advocating war crimes investigations. Yep, I’m an enabler!
@liberalrob
Elizabeth Warren is clearly justifying the bombing of hospital and schools, albeit euphemistically with “defend itself”. Although, I can see how someone suffering from Partisan Catalepsy and/or K-street syndrome would be able to find the much required wiggle-room.
You don’t know that Hamas was targeting “civilian areas”. For example, the Israeli Defense Ministry and their army’s command and control centers are in the heart of Tel Aviv. They also have a military base near a large shopping mall. In addition, the Shin Bet headquarters (security agency) is in Jerusalem next to a residential neighborhood.
They haven’t responded “in kind”.
I absolutely don’t “know” that. To the contrary, Elizabeth Warren has justified the bombing of thousands of Palestinian civilians. Based on her comments, she’s seems very much at ease with that.
Finkelstein doesn’t say “whatever response”. He says that according to international law, Palestinians are legally allowed to forcefully resist occupation for the purpose of gaining self-determination. You saying that’s incorrect without providing any evidence to support that claim is meaningless and without merit.
Like I said, tell that to the Israeli’s who have killed and wounded thousands of Palestinian civilians. I wonder if Elizabeth Warren thinks about all those children who’ll grow up without their parents, without their limbs, paralyzed, blinded, burned, etc. For some reason I doubt that she does.
I see you finally went to the article and retrieved his comments where he does “address it”. It kind of takes the punch out of your original comment, don’t you think? Maybe now you’ll be read the material before you ignorantly spout off:
What are on about there? Is that supposed to be some sort of bizarre ironic statement that I’m just not getting? In the off-chance that you’re serious, please explain how that comment can be justified, at all….based on what historical evidence?
No, you’re an enabler for other reasons. I wouldn’t call it “advocating”, though. More like a recent CYA episode.
Haven’t you yet figured out that our foreign policy of endless war against (Muslim) terrorists is instigated, controlled by Zionist Israel for her benefit only and paid for by us, the American taxpayer. WE PAY FOR THE BRUTAL MURDERS OF INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN!
Those are your principles are they? Well, if you ever were a liberal, you’ve been robbed, cause you ain’t got the heart of a true liberal.
Ohhh, I get it now. You’re one of those guys.
Nevermind, then.
It appears no one wants to address the real problem with our “at all costs” support if the tyrannical Zionist Israel….American Christians are totally consumed by their religious “end days” dogma (preached to them every Sunday) that demands support if Israel. Not one politician in Washington can afford the lose all those voted, for God’s sake!!!….even if those blood-sucking Zionist leads directly into self-destruction!!!!!!
A tremendous disappointment that Senator Warren, the last hope for progressives in the democrat party, turns out to be no different from her peers. The behavior of the Israeli government is the litmus test of this decade, much like that of the apartheid regime in South Africa was in the 1980s. Not that I equate Netanyahu’s government to that of P.W. Botha, for, as Noam Chomsky has pointed out, at least the South Africans recognized the right of the blacks to their own homeland, while the Likud party and its coalition partners exclude the possibility of a Palestinian state.
Senator Warren, like her colleagues, should know this, and should have recognized that decades of Israeli intransigence and militarism have done nothing to bring peace to the region, but have instead played into the hands of extremists. The United States is paying in the blood of its citizens for the action of the Zionists, and will continue to do so until we recognize that repression is wrong no matter who does it. That the sons and daughters of victims of the most profound persecution can become persecutors themselves is almost beyond comprehension, and how anyone who claims to support freedom can turn a blind eye to their crimes unmasks their own hypocrisy.
actually it’s not at all uncommon for people who were victims of horrible abuse to become abusers themselves….perhaps this is what happened….
Our congress has turned into a cesspool of sorts, with the oligarch’s, the rich and powerful, the corporations, and the infamous revolving door, keeping that cesspool full of bad people in bought out positions of power. Any one with good intentions, which I am sure Sen Warren started out with, will be immersed in the filth that fills our government. I can see it happening and I expect it will continue to worsen. Senator Warren has been compromised by wealth and power.
Well I’m done with this crap. No more voting for me on the federal level. Don’t see the point. Maybe I should vote for myself. Oh heck how about vote for “Nobody?” LOL I like that campaign! Nobody for President. To be President of the US to day is to be a “War Criminal in Chief” by default.
To hear Elizabeth Warren is a zionist is a severe blow. Senator Warren was to me a beacon of hope that there existed in US leadership some integrity. But it is not possible to put any faith in the integrity of a person whose judgement about the Palestinian/Zionist scandal is such as Elizabeth Warren proclaimed. I am very deeply saddened by this news.I live in hope that The Intercept.will help restore people of integrity to the leadership of the United States and was foolishly believing Elizabeth Warren was one of those people..
For Senator Warren to be a serious candidate she needs to publicly support getting legislation passed to stop over half a century of the abusive application of the state secrets privilege and related doctrine, act, regulation, executive order and policy abuses. Passing Senator Pat Leahy’s USA FREEDOM Act would be a step in the right direction.
Just for a brief moment, I became a believer in a politician again after swearing off voting or participating to support such a hopeless corrupt system for so many years and then this article proving they are all alike. Again, a sick belief that we are superior and killing innocents (with my tax dollars) is justified. Shame on you Elizabeth. You are no different than Clinton’s, Bushes or OBama.
Funny to see so much vitriol on The Intercept’s comment thread. So many open minds proclaiming that those who don’t think like them got it all wrong.
Get over your anti-Israel obsession. Start finding commonalities with Zionists, or you’ll end up in perpetual. Because we’re not going anywhere. Israel is here to stay, and, yes, Zionists like me love that Elizabeth Warren thinks like us.
This article did nothing to dismiss Warren’s apt diagnosis of the situation. The fact remains. Hamas puts its rocket launchers next to hospitals, next to schools, they’re using their civilian population to protect their military assets. Legitimate leaders of a society would keep their military infrastructure separate to protect their families, women and children.
Thank you Elizabeth Warren for saying what few journalists have the guts to say. Hamas is a terrorist organization that puts its own people at risk by building military infrastructure BENEATH Gazan civilian infrastructure. Their charter calls not not only for the complete and total destruction of Israel but “for the murder of Jews and blames Jews for engineering the French and Russian revolutions and both world wars.” They are an extremist, fundamentalist group that threatens not only the lives of its neighbors but the lives of its own people at the cost of its fundamentalist goals. Is it a devastating tragedy how many innocent lives were taken in Gaza as a result of this war, and I know a lot of Israeli’s who are struggling with this loss as a consequence of their own safety and protection. But this devastating war should not be used an excuse for American and European thinkers to condemn Israeli defensive action and their right to a peaceful homeland. As a strong liberal myself, it breaks my heart to see this tragedy and war causing even more polluted and media-contrived thinking as well as the striking re-emergence of Anti-Semitism and Xenophobia in the heart of western liberalism.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/31/how-aipac-rules/
Israel flew shy of 4000 air raids, armed with US-made missiles. Each missile should’ve killed at least 10 people. Why are only 2000 Gazans dead? It should be 40,000 minimum. Of course ONE death is a death too many. But considering 2500 Palestinians were murdered by Assad in Syria, and 190,000 Syrians were killed – without a bat from you, Glen – I wonder if perhaps Israel did a remarkable job in AVOIDING civilian casualties. Warren, Congress and even Dutch law professors seem to think so.
2nd paragraph, second sentence. Isn’t it Bangert and not Banger? Everyone needs an editor.
ameriKa is flat out BROKE and this fool wants to blow more money not just in ameriKa , but outside ameriKa like pols from both parties. when will you who vote for the dems and repubs ever wake up??? never
cruelty to authentic commenters
This threat has brought out the usual coterie of anti-Semites in anti-Israel clothing. The Jews control Hollywood, Congress, the banks, etc. Israelis are Nazis.Hamas is blameless, they only want peace, the Jews stole every bit of land in Israel, etc. 2,000 Palestinians civilians killed — in a war their own rulers started — is genocide (equivalent to 800K Tutsis, 1+ million Armenians, 6 million Jews). By this reckoning, every country from the U.S. to Russia to China to Japan to every country except Switzerland is guilty of genocide. But hey, let’s hold Israel to a unique standard.
Civilian casualties are awful in a war… and every major country has inadvertently killed civilians in the course of defending itself. If you read the Israeli press, you’ll learn that the Palestinian civilian casualties are agonizing for many Israelis. Meanwhile, Sunnis and Shias slaughter each other by the tens of thousands in Iraq and Syria… commit real genocide (as in deliberate annihilation of another people, for those of you who throw that word around so casually) against the Christian Yazidis… ISIS sells (yes, sells) Yazidi women to its fighters as brides, after forcing the women to convert to Islam. Where are the protests against any of this from the American and European left-wingers who are so radically incensed at Israel for defending itself? You’re just Jew-haters pure and simple. You never liked those people and the current Gaza conflict is an excuse to express, and feel justified about, your inherent racism.
It appears my last comment in favor of rolling back support of Warren disappeared. I suppose I should therefore bring up a different point. On the campus in my town there’s currently another cause precipitated by Zionists, namely a case of suppression of free speech by university officials where a professor, Dr Steven Salaita, anonymously posted comments on Twitter critical of Israel and was then denied a tenured professorship after Zionists made his anonymous tweets public.
I really don’t see how reasonable people can be so easily led astray.
Money is a big part of it.
And Steve Salaita’s support was strong, very strong.
Latest on Steve Salaita – NYT now covering his plight.
http://coreyrobin.com/2014/08/31/salaita-by-the-numbers-5-cancelled-lectures-3-votes-of-no-confidence-3849-boycotters-and-1-nyt-article/
Opportunity to help Steve Salaita financially. Both he and his wife are unemployed having quit their jobs in order to move into his new employment.
http://supportstevensalaita.com/
Happens all the time.
What’s exciting is, this gaffe is already losing Warren thousands of supporters and votes. Check out the Huffington Post reaction, where so many Warren supporters get and share news. There are apparently hundreds of voters right there today openly, simply rejecting Warren based on this horrifying, disappointing, yet somewhat predictable move. Warren’s support of the status quo in Israel and the middle east has sent the fast-growing 46% of Americans who call themselves “Independent” looking for a new candidate. Ironically, many of those are jewish voters. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/28/elizabeth-warren-defends-_n_5733164.html
After all, the theory that there are millions of bloodthirsty jews who will eagerly vote for anyone who advocates bombing Palestinian hospitals and schools is not just inaccurate — it’s anti-semitic. In the US and especially in NYC, jews are famously the to first stand up for equality and hunan rights, and though AIPAC is huge in Washington and warps our press, it doesn’t represent jews — it represents cowardly, prejudiced politicians’ Fear of losing jewish donors and votes, which is very different.
Excellent!
Echoed. Seconded. Agreed. Thanks, David.
I wonder how many political candidates or elected officials have stood up and questioned America’s support of Israel, and dare even suggesting that peace with the Palestinians should be a top priority? I’m betting that number is VERY close to zero. Why would they all be so intimidated (assuming logic says today’s policy and practices are critically flawed)?
of course we do not have it any better in Canada either…our politicians are at least as Zionist friendly, and supportive as any Yankee ones….our Prime Minister, Stephene (the Zionist) Harper has a nose so brown from brown nosing the Israeli Zionist government of Netanyahu, that you can smell him from here….for our Conservative (Fascist) Government in Canada, Israel can do no wrong, no matter what….but then of course most Senior members of the Harper caucus, are actually Evangelical Protestant Christians….a breed which is knee-jerk Pro Israel…no mater what.
thanks Glenn for this article….this is your typical knee jerk Americkan politician’s point of view….reflexively pro Zionist Israel no matter WHAT they may be doing….what ever the Zionists are doing, whether it’s murdering Palestinians, or merely evicting them from their centuries’ long homes and confining them to the concentration camp that is Gaza, whatever it is, in the view of such politicians, whether GOP or Democrat, it is justified, and totally due to something that Hamas is claimed to have done….whether Hamas actually did anything at all…it is always their fault….of course we won’t mention just how much the Palestinian peoples are exploited, repressed, oppressed, and imprisoned without recourse to justice, which actions, of course, are provocative in the extreme to the more “active” Palestinian resistance….and which predictably lead to more rockets being fired at Israel out of frustration and rage….(justified rage in my view)….not that i support sending rockets into Israel, or anywhere else for that matter…but i can understand why the Palestinian militia types may feel the urge to do so….which of course doesn’t make it right, any more than the Israeli reprisals are just or right…
“…but i can understand why the Palestinian militia types may feel the urge to do so….which of course doesn’t make it right, any more than the Israeli reprisals are just or right…”
Respectfully, visvanathan, why wouldn’t it be “right” for the Palestinians to fight back militarily? Are only certain ethnicities and nations (namely, non-Palestinian) allowed to use force to combat occupation and oppression? Just how much suffering do the native Palestinian people have to go through before people accept that they have the right to defend themselves with force?
I’m not accusing you per se, but I find it infuriating when people espouse passive resistance only when it’s applied to others and not themselves. You say that you think their rage is justified, but not the firing of rockets into Israel. However uncomfortable it is for people to admit, those rockets accomplished a lot. The world now recognizes the plight of the Palestinians much more now than before. Hamas is now revered by the Palestinian people — for good reason. Whether it was worth it or not is ultimately up to the Palestinians to decide.
While you acknowledge that Israel’s “reprisals” to those rockets isn’t “just or right”, you equate their response to that of Hamas’s. That’s a huge false equivalency. Hamas’s actions are in response to 66-years of brutal occupation and siege. What other country can you think of in a similar circumstance as that of Palestine? It’s no more an “urge” by “Palestinian militia types” any more than it would be for U.S. citizens to perform their patriotic duty and fight for sovereignty as a dignified people who have worth.
The latest slaughter inflicted by Israel was ostensibly designed to suppress the understandable resistance to Israel’s criminal conduct. As we’re currently witnessing, it’s having the opposite effect which provides further justification for Hama’s actions. If people are uncomfortable with bottle rockets flying into Israel then they should fight to end U.S. aid to Israel, support BDS, or do whatever you can…just don’t judge Hamas for doing what anybody else would probably do in their position.
“My Storify from around Gaza City the day after Israel and Hamas signed an open ended ceasefire:”
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/504747035833032707
Unfortunately, the Palestinians don’t really have the wherewithal at this point to fight back “militarily”. Instead they can only aim their weapons randomly which means, more often than not, towards civilians. Civilians, whether Palestinian or Israeli should not be targeted which I think is visvanathan’s point. It really is a no win situation for the Palestinians.
avelna, yes for Palestinians the situation is no win, and yes, targeting civilians is wrong. But the targeting of civilians is as lopsided as the military where-with-all to target them.
This is the result of Israeli surgical strikes that clearly avoid targeting civilians.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwREoaACQAAKDmm.jpg
No image of Israeli civilian loss is comparable. Any comparison is so clearly impossible as to make criticism of Palestinian-caused civilian casualties jaw-droppingly insignificant.
Excerpts from ARE HAMAS ROCKET ATTACKS ILLEGAL? by Norman Finkelstein:
International law prohibits an occupying power from using force to suppress a struggle for self-determination, whereas it does not prohibit a people struggling for self-determination from using force.[1] The International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated in its 2004 advisory opinion that the Palestinian people’s “rights include the right to self-determination,” and that “Israel is bound to comply with its obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.” Israel consequently has no legal right to use force to suppress the Palestinian self-determination struggle.
Israel also cannot contend that, because this self-determination struggle unfolds within the framework of an occupation, it has the legal right, as the occupying power, to enforce the occupation so long as it endures.[2] In 1971, the ICJ ruled that South Africa’s occupation of Namibia had become illegal because it refused to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation. It is beyond dispute that Israel has failed to carry out good-faith negotiations to end the occupation of Palestinian territory. On the Namibia precedent, the Israeli occupation is also illegal. The only “right” Israel can claim is—in the words of the United States at the time of the Namibia debate—“to withdraw its administration…immediately and thus put an end to its occupation.”[3]
Although claiming for itself the right of self-defense against Hamas projectiles, in fact Israel is claiming the right to maintain the occupation. If Israel ceased using force to suppress the Palestinian struggle for self-determination, the occupation would end, and the projectile attacks would cease. (If they didn’t stop, the legal situation would, of course, be different.) If it ended the occupation, Israel wouldn’t need to use force. The refrain that Israel has the right to self-defense is a red herring: the real question is, Does Israel have the right to use force to maintain an illegal occupation? The answer is no.
Finkelstein on Hamas’s weapons:
It is not altogether clear what constitutes an indiscriminate weapon. The apparent standard is a relative one set by the available technology: If an existing weapon has a high probability of hitting its target, then any weapons with a significantly lower probability are classified as indiscriminate. But, by this standard, only rich countries, or countries rich enough to purchase high-tech weapons, have a right to defend themselves against high-tech aerial assaults. It is a curious law that would negate the raison d’être of law: the substitution of might by right.
Finkelstein on reprisals by Hamas:
International law does not—at any rate, not yet—prohibit belligerent reprisals.[4] The United States and Britain, among others, have staunchly defended the right of a state to use nuclear weapons by way of belligerent reprisal.[5] By this standard, the people of Gaza surely have the right to use makeshift projectiles to end an illegal, merciless seven-year-long Israeli blockade or to end Israel’s criminal bombardment of Gaza’s civilian population.
Indeed, in its landmark 1996 advisory opinion on the legality of nuclear weapons, the ICJ ruled that international law is not settled on the right of a state to use nuclear weapons when its “survival” is at stake. But, if a state might have the right to use nuclear weapons when its survival is at stake, then surely a people struggling for self-determination has the right to use makeshift projectiles when it has been subjected to slow death by a protracted blockade and recurrent massacres by a state determined to maintain its occupation.
One might legitimately question the political prudence of Hamas’s strategy. But the law is not unambiguously against it, while the scales of morality weigh in its favor. Israel has imposed a brutal blockade on Gaza. Fully 95 percent of the water in Gaza is unfit for human consumption. By all accounts, the Palestinian people now stand behind those engaging in belligerent reprisals against Israel. In the Gaza Strip, they prefer to die resisting than to continue living under an inhuman blockade. Their resistance is mostly notional, as makeshift projectiles cause little damage. So, the ultimate question is, Do Palestinians have the right to symbolically resist slow death punctuated by periodic massacres, or must they lie down and die?
UNITED NATIONS General Assembly Resolution 33/24:
Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
Indignant at the continued violations of the human rights of the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia and South Africa’s attempts to dismember its territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority régimes in Zimbabwe and South Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights,
2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle;
3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the peoples of Namibia and Zimbabwe, of the Palestinian people and of all peoples under alien and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, and national unity and sovereignty without external interference;
* * * *
Besides Israel, my interpretation for what constitutes “external interference” would also include U.S. tax dollars to Israel, F-16s, bombs, and the corrupt political DC establishment which includes Obama, Kerry, Warren, Obama, Sanders, Boxer, and everyone else in the Senate. If there’s an afterlife, I hope that each and every one of those spineless miscreants will feel the excruciating anguish they’ve caused the Palestinian people a millions times over.
Three sayings of Gandhi on violence in the act of self-defense:
1. Between violence and cowardly fight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice.
2. I would risk violence a thousand times rather than risk the emasculation of the whole race.
3. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonour.
I live in Massachusetts and voted for her, but I am more and more disappointed in her stands. She distanced herself from the Occupy Wall Street! movement, even as they have been far more effective on her favorite issue that she has been. But this Israel stand is too much for me and it is unlikely that I will vote for her (or any Democrat) again. She’s not very bright for a former Harvard professor.
Thank G-d for Elizabeth Warren – she understands that predatory dangers exist from genocide promoting jihadists – just as predators also exist in a “self regulated” investment and securities environment.
So, let’s see how long new comments are held, and where they are added.
On topic, hasn’t Elizabeth Warren generally been fairly disappointing on the war(s)? Maybe not Obama level “disappointing,” but still not particularly useful.
So they do seem to appear immediately, but for whatever reason they aren’t properly sorted until you click “read more comments” (or whatever) at the bottom of the page. The top comment for me prior to clicking that is Velia’s comment chain from 28 Aug. I don’t think it’s a particularly good idea to have the newest comments hidden by default, as that really stifles discussion since half of the readers will think there are no recent comments.
oops, I guess the spam filter didn’t hold that too long. It appeared within 8 minutes, immediately after I replied to avelna’s comment below. I assumed I’d be stuck in filter land for longer due to it being a self reply, but 8 minutes isn’t too bad. Still concerned about new comments not appearing until “read more comments” is clicked, though.
The link to view all comments, presumably in their reverse chronological (but still nested) order is as follows:
https//firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/28/elizabeth-warren-speaks-israelgaza-sounds-like-netanyahu/?comments=all#comments
So that’s either inserting “?comments=all” in front of “#comments” if you’ve reached the page through the story’s comments link, or appending “?comments=all#comments” to the end of the link to the story itself.
It appears the GOP shot itself in the foot a few years back. When they worked so assiduously to block Warren’s nomination to head the new Consumer Finance Protection agency, they ultimately lost a solid GOP senator from Massachusetts. Nice backfire, guys. Had Warren been confirmed instead, she’d now be in the hot seat over the overpriced office renovation scandal, and politically marginalized for years over it, perhaps a decade. We all could have been spared her, but the GOP caved in instead to short term expedience to prove a political point of nebulous value.
BDS !
Wouldn’t it be ironic if, ten generations ago, Yasir Arafat and Bebe Netanyahu were related. I just can’t figure out, based on the above comments why Americans don’t know that Israel controls our foreign policy, not Washington. As Clinton said to Netanyahu, “I thought I was the head of the only world Super Power”.
This new commenting format is obviously confusing and frustrating but for those who are unaware of this, you can locate an individual’s comments by pushing ctrl then f on your keyboard (at least in Goggle Chrome) and then typing the name of that individual in the box that appears in the upper right-hand corner of the page. To get all of his or her comments though you have to have loaded all of the comments from the “read more comments” choice at the bottom of the comments section.
Also you apparently have to click “read more comments” to even see the newest comments, as the top comment for me is Velia’s from 28 Aug otherwise. That doesn’t seem like a good design if we really want to encourage discussion. Sorry if this ends up being a double post, as I replied to my test post above but was caught by the spam filter. (either due to timing or more likely that it was a self reply)
Thanks, that is interesting. In Firefox using a Mac it is Command and F and the box appears at the bottom of the page.
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.
Yep, she drak the kool aid of DC. Can someone explain the “Special” relationship we have with Israel?! is it they take our money and we kiss their ass!?
A simple question to Mr Greenwald,
Is it possible that Hamas used human shields during their multiple conflicts with Israel? Based on its ideology and its history of specifically targeting civilians it is possible that it is an organization that considers dead children as martyrs and not as innocent civilians as we would classify them?
Yes, let’s talk of “human shields”:
Israel’s “Human Shield” Hypocrisy
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html
The author of the article you shared is not an impartial party of the conflict. I can re-phrase my question. Does placing rockets in schools put the civilian population in grave danger?
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
Please state which part of avelna’s article you find to be in error.
Also, the rockets were discovered in a vacant school:
“An incident, “the first of its kind,” occurred today: UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestine refugees, found weapons in one the hundreds of schools it runs in the Gaza Strip. The school was vacant and the weapons were quickly removed.
“It is important to highlight this incident because of how Israel and its apologists are already misusing and misrepresenting it to justify Israel’s massive and illegal bombardment of civilians and civilian infrastructure in the Gaza Strip…”
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/isolated-weapons-find-vacant-unrwa-school-cannot-justify-israels-gaza-slaughter
The author clearly states that he is angry at Israel and he believes Israeli defenders are “racists”. I cannot rely on that article for an impartial assessment of that conflict. The UNRWA found rockets three times in different schools! I think incidents like this pass the level of “first of It’s kind”. Yes, the schools were vacant, but how far were they from other non vacant schools and highly populated areas? Did you take the time to search that information?
Before you blame me for being an Israeli apologist although I have neither written nor said anything to judge Israel, you should review Hamas policies and check whether Hamas should also be held responsible for the deaths of civilians that it has a duty to protect.
@Steb
The fact that they were vacant renders your “human shields” argument bullshit. Whereas, Israel has repeatedly been caught using Palestinians as literal human shields. Also, the Israeli Defense Ministry and the army’s command and control centers are in the heart of Tel Aviv.
Israel is directly responsible for the slaughter of the thousands of Palestinians, not Hamas. Israel is illegally occupying land that it stole from the Palestinians. The Palestinians are justifiably resisting. Like I said, quit blaming the victim.
Also, a poll released today shows that most Palestinians are in favor Hamas:
“The poll also suggests a majority of Palestinians – 72 percent – support adopting Hamas’ armed approach in the West Bank.”
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Sep-02/269320-hamas-popularity-skyrockets-after-gaza-war.ashx#axzz3CDimStuF
@Steb
“I cannot rely on that article for an impartial assessment of that conflict.”
I wasn’t talking about the the authors opinion or his assessment. What factual claims do you find to be in error or that you suspect might be false? Or do you just generally dismiss articles out of hand that don’t conform to your bias?
Yes, I dismiss any articles in which the author makes it clear that he or she hates a specific party in the conflict. You stated that I am bias, yet I have not stated anything in support of Israel. I just blame Hamas. So, in your view, blaming Hamas is supporting Israel? The same poll you are referring states that most Palestinians believe Hamas won. Do you seriously believe that Hamas won?
you blame Hamas and claim that is not b?as for Israel: ? Israel k?lled dozens of children arrested hundrds of palstinians ?t had just relased in a deal with HAMAS and assassinate hamas leadrs with their whole families and neighbors together during which tim hamas warned Israel of the consquences but Israel bears no responsibility, after 70 yrs of ethnic cleansing 50 years of occupat?on and the k?ll?ng of god knows how many children targetted by IDF. No respons?b?l?ty. Hamas has no rights. Only zion?sts who deny moses and the prophets have r?ghts. uproot?ng thousand year old ol?ve groves deny?ng fishrman the right to go fishing targetting goat herders. deny?ng any r?ght to travel to do bus?ness to sell produce to work…. all OK.
What’s your major malfunction, Steb? I asked you what factual errors you found or suspect…anything?
Do not lower yourself to that level. I do not see how your choice of words or your personal attack would help or convince readers to follow your opinion. Again, I dismiss the article because the author makes it clear that he is angry at Israel. I believe I do have the right to accept or dismiss any articles based on my support for impartiality. You also have the right to disregard my opinion without personal attack if you believe blaming Hamas is not allowed.
noth?ng hamas d?d does or can do can ver just?fy the mass ?ncarcerat?on of 5 m?ll?on palest?an commun?sts soc?al?sts human?sts druze samar?tans greek orthodox syr?ac orthodox angl?can Maronites, Melkite-Eastern Catholics, Jacobites, Chaldeans, Roman Catholics, Syriac Catholics, Orthodox Copts, Catholic Copts, Armenian Orthodox, Armenian Catholic, Quakers (Friends Society), Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans (Episcopal), Lutherans, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Nazarene, Assemblies of God, Baptists and other Protestants; in addition to small groups of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons. sunni muslims and just pla?n humans. noth?ng hamas d?d does or can do just?f?es k?ll?ng hundreds of bab?es thousands of ch?ldrenç noth?ng hamas d?d does or can do just?f?es genoc?de aparthe?d war cr?mes cr?mes aga?nst human?ty: summary non-judicial executions of unarmed us amer?can c?t?zen ch?ldren and women and the torture of unrmed 100% d?sabled US Amer?can veterans ?n wheel cha?rs and go ahead and tell me you don’t like my tone. when ? was ?n palestine ? lived the embargo and th hunger ?n subfreez?ng weather ?n w?nter no heat?ng o?l no cook?ng gas no fresh meat eggs or dairy or fresh vegetables ?n the world’s r?chest agr?cultural so?l. and when ? had two weeks of 43 dgree fever from septecem?a after l?v?ng through the cold and hunger my phys?cians could not treat me because the ant?-biotics and anti-micotics I needed were embargoed but literally by a miracle I survivd to tell th tale of Isrl’s daily subjugation humiliation exploitation and just plain genocide of Palestine. so your tome is the least of it. only a godless soulless people accept the USA’s subsidy of 25 cents on every dollar to keep killing off palestinians, their clubs and cafes full while Palstinian children sleep with empty stomachs … god will not forgive it.
“Check out what ‘Israel’ has done in the past two days …”
https://www.facebook.com/docjazz/posts/10152658111955535
I wonder how Elizabeth Warren feels about the above…any ideas?
@Steb
“Again, I dismiss the article because the author makes it clear that he is angry at Israel.”
In other words, you couldn’t find any factual errors in the article.
Is it possible? Would you like to re-phrase that as a declarative sentence? No, of course not.
More to the point, is it possible that the only evidence so far of human shields is actually of Israel doing it? Yes it is.
I did not say anything about Israel yet. Focus on my question before your judgment. Is it possible that Hamas uses human shields?
According to the Amnesty international’s report, Israel is the one using human shields.
Is it possible that the Pope isn’t Catholic? Is it possible that a tree fell in the forest with no one hearing it? Is it possible that water is wet?
Such conundrums…
Does Hamas using human shields justify Israel blowing the crap out of said human shields? Opinions differ, apparently.
The question about the Pope, the tree and the water are not conundrums at all. The Pope decides what his faith is. We know from audiometric test that humans can hear frequencies from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. Researchers from Zurich have designed a powerful microscope that can produce images of molecules. So, by studying the state of the water molecules we can conclude whether the hydrogen and the oxygen are in liquid or gaseous state.
However, the Middle East conflict is a complicated situation. Those who strongly support Israel refuse to pressure the government to stop its policies in occupied territory, and those who are more anti Israel than pro Palestinians ( like Mr. Greenwald and most of the readers here) refuse to admit that Hamas is more responsible for the death of Gazans than Israel is. So, to re phrase my question as a sentence as requested by a reader. To place rockets in schools during an urban conflicts is in fact using civilians as human shields.
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
@steb
The “Middle East conflict” is NOT a “complicated situation”. Israel is illegally occupying Palestine and oppressing its indigenous population. The Palestinians are naturally resisting like anybody would do under similar circumstances. Quit blaming the victim.
Well, if it is not complicated what is the solution you suggest?
A reminder, Israelis do not consider Palestinians as indigenous population. Native Americans in Canada and USA do not consider European descents and African American as indigenous population. 45% of the Peruvian population do not consider the other 55% as indigenous. Keep human history in mind when you present us with your simple solution for this simple problem.
There’s no evidence that Hamas uses human shields but there’s plenty of evidence that Israel does. Why not deal with the facts instead of conjecturing?
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25362-israel-uses-palestinians-as-human-shields-but-us-lawmakers-condemn-hamas
I was actually dealing with the facts to find out whether some readers are ready to place some blame on Hamas for the death of the civilians they have a duty to protect. I can re phrase the question. Does placing rockets in schools during a conflict put the civilian population in danger?
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
The rockets were discovered in a vacant school.
Also:
Ramadan Muhammad Qadeeh said that on July 25th, Israeli soldiers raided his home in the village. They killed his 65-year-old father at point-blank range after he tried to tell the soldiers they were just civilians. Then, Qadeeh said, “they ordered us to take off our clothes and tied our hands up. They took us to one of the rooms and used us as shields, making us stand at the windows as if we were looking outside…I was at one window and three children from my family at another. The soldiers then began firing around us.”
“There are many detailed accounts of how Israel has used Palestinian civilians as human shields during past military operations in Gaza.
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/accounts-israeli-khuzaa.html
Here’s a video of Ramadan Muhammad Qadeeh describing the incident:
Israeli Army Is Using Palestinians As ‘Human Shields’
I live in Massachusetts, and voted for Elizabeth Warren….Her stance on Israel has made it impossible for me to vote for her again
It sounds to me that Senator Warren is much more well-informed about US domestic issues than she is about foreign issues like the Israel-Gaza-Hamas situation. This might explain the “drinking the D.C. Koolaid” euphemism– perhaps she drinks it because she doesn’t invest her resources in the top-shelf tequila behind the bar. Anyway, just one thought.
Another thought is that calling Israel a Nazi state or a system of apartheid is just as propagandistic a comparison as what Warren is being accused of here. Any discussion of the actions and policies of Israel should be measured, yes, against history, but also in the current contextual terms. Creating urgency with such historically based terms is inevitable, and it is a trend that must too be carefully watched and criticized, just like Warren’s comments or those of any political figure. To fail to do so is to risk being anachronistic.
Thanks for reading,
Rossi
What a disappointment! A smart woman allowing herself to influenced by assassins.
You’re all complaining about Warren but the sad fact is that when the time comes, you people will vote lock-step democrat. You are as bad as the republicans, probably a bit worse.
She sounds dead on with here comments
I agree with others here questioning Israel’s one-sided and corrupt militarism. Has any US politician ever survived inside the Beltway opposing Israel-backers? http://i.imgur.com/ZAFDjC3.jpg
Extremely depressing. But it is the same position many moral people take – they live in the ‘Jewish Prison’ (Jean Daniel) and will not allow themselves to empathize with Palestinians.
Face it. The government has been conquered by the zionist cabal. 28 standing ovations from Congress for the war criminal and baby killer Netanyahu is enough to get a clue. Cockroaches have a higher approval rating than the real, bought and paid for terrorists inside the Beltway in Washington DC. The government is rogue. You got to get that through your head. Patriots will have to take it back with force if necessary.
The total destructive power of the bombing of Gaza was greater than that of the Hiroshima bomb.
http://youtu.be/jBEFBixO1ck
She’s lost me. Either she’s willfully ignorant of the ethnic cleansing that’s been going on since 1948 or just doesn’t care. Either way she’s lost my respect and any vote I may have considered giving her. Best if she stays in Massachusetts where AIPAC can funnel her lots of money !
Israel is stolen land built on the blood of the Palestinians! What we call Israel is one of the reasons it so dangerous! The other reason is the USA!
Hilary lite. At this rate we need BDS against the USA.
Elizabeth Warren has been a great disappointment to me. Never have I seen someone so eager to capitulate all principles. It makes me think she never had them to begin with. I doubt that her main selling point – getting the middle class out of debt and protecting students’ futures – will come to anything either. She is no horse-trader, more like a sounds-like-horse traitor.
Once we get past disappointment and enter the realm of educated disgust, we reclaim our power to know the truth. I am disgusted, and cannot be conned by these charlatans. I am not disappointed. People who disgust me cannot also disappoint me.
Its the only intelligent comment Lizzy Borden Warren, has EVER made.
Liberalism is what happens when the criminally insane lead the mentally ill, the perpetually dependent and the emotionally invalid.
My position is that there are plenty on the right to go after regarding the crimes committed against the people of Gaza before I need to start PUBLICLY throwing social progressives under the bus. And I do mean plenty.
Testing 1,2,3… Testing.
The Add Comment button worked last night. Whoopee! But does anyone have problems with the comment section’s format?
I find it confusing.
Oh yes, very confusing. Makes one wonder if they’re simply trying to discourage any commenting. Unless things improve, folks are simply going to stop attempting to participate.
Right wing sites aspire to be popular and therefore provide a friendly environment for commenters. Left wing sites by contrast aspire to unpopularity as a badge of honor. They reason that anything which is unpopular must be morally superior. They also promote the fiction their few intrepid readers must have above average discernment and intelligence. The comment section tends to refute this, which is an additional reason for trying to stifle it.
The few, the brave, the abandoned.
…by purposely making the comment section difficult to read and user-unfriendly. Clever plan; well played! But I guess it’s ultimately a failure, as the droogs still seem to be finding their way in…
testing again
Israel was built by EU with a unconditional support by USG/EU. The question why they built Israel in Palestrina was Jewish people living in Palestrina side by side in peace and harmony for thousands or years. Israel become Israel gradually by harassing, terrorizing and finally stealing Palestinian land as Europeans were doing in South Africa.
The European, American, Russian and immigrants from Eastern Europe was the social politics played by EU/US to match the Jewish population with Palestinians, then the wars conducted by either side, mostly by Israel, Palestinian losing their land made a open apartheid regime to begin functioning as they do today.
The EU and USG unconditional support for Israel is for Israel to play its rule guarding EU/USG ” interests” whatever might be, a balanced between Arab nationalism and Israel “democracy”. Israel has over 800 documented human abuse, act against humanity and etc, recorded at UN, but each and every time USG been vetoing the result by majority to punish Israel, therefore, Israel, acts as it has. The present talks in regime change by English and other European and USG is about saving the apartheid where is established that Israel is THE system that Palestinians have to accept and to be ruled by. The regime change Gaddafi, the Syrian, the Saddam Hussein beside other matters is about Israel to rule over Arab nationals, however, the Syrian situation has created the momentum where Saudis barbarians are in charge of regime change, not what Barack Hussein Obama hopped for.
People as Elizabeth Warren don’t know the Jewish/Palestinians history, they are the Neo liberal without a clue in what they are talking about. According to UN report there never was or existed any HAMAS missiles at schools, hospitals or other public area, HAMAS is not stupid to lose people who have supported them for years by planting weapons around its people using them as human shield knowing that Israel will bomb the area. How about houses and apartment buildings, how about shops, food markets and all other places where Israel bombed killing people. If HAMAS had so many missile hidden in so many area then why is it that only one gas station was hit, even though their missile is not sufisticated but more of missiles more damages. Gaza is the Israeli apartheid regime Auschwitz, Israel is not democracy nor it ever have been, hence, the unconditional USG/EU support supporting Israel as a apartheid regime with link to Neo fascism.
Glenn Greenwald seems to work tirelessly to try to make his readers hate Israel as much as possible.
Seems incredibly antisemitic. To only mention Israel to promote hate. To never mention Israel in neutral grounds. To never mention anti-Jewish or anti-Israel attacks. Just demonizing Israel. What’s the purpose of this?
What’s Glenn Greenwald’s motivation, trying to make hundreds of thousands of people hate Israel just a little more each day?
Warren knows squat about the Middle East but I will take her stance on banks over everyone else in Washington. That said – She isn’t a left-wing anything; She, sadly, is just left of center with AIPAC still owning the stage.
Has Elizabeth Warren been officially DENOUNCED here on the INTERSEPT website. I think I’m really proud of you guys now
Now for some thing off subject.
In reading a biography of Paulo Coelho, by Fernando Moral, I came to a part where it says Coelho drafted a mission statement for the presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton. I have read and loved all of this man’s work. If anyone knows Coelho, or has the ability to contact this man. From my soul I plead that his mind and words do not help Hillary become president. Thank you
I’m sitting here starring at Elizabeth Warren’s book on my shelf. Was this just another F**k**g American hype to political office.
Elizabeth Warren was a SINGLE HOPE I had for our political system. I sold books for her by word of mouth. I even knew she would be TOURQUED around in the process, but WHAT IS THIS! NO WAY She’s off the lists, I’ll speak her down from here out.
I had a thought that she could play system, KISS UP to the Democratic hopeful. Use their time and money to set forth HER CREDIBILITY, then right before the election JUMP SHIP and help BERNIE SANDERS run the third party to a VICTORY. Isn’t Bernie in trouble over this also. I must be high
I just heard a news story on RT saying the YADIZI PEOPLE are SCREAMING FOR HELP. These are the people on the mountain that justified us GOING TO WAR!
What, we run over there and start bombing and forget to HELP THE PEOPLE.
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This is not the Liberal we’re looking for.
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another testing one, pelase ignore :)
don’t approve this! thanks.
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I can see this comment, Lyra.
The new comment setup seems to have had the desired effect of greatly improving the average quality of the comments.
History is key here. None of which is honorable or fair. I do not agree with decisions carried our by “The League of Nations” nor do I think Colonialsm was ever moral. Please see this link and please understand as history goes, there are always many versions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
Hey, look everybody! Here comes Sen. Elizabeth Warren who’s gonna fight those mean old banks! She doesn’t cave to lobbying power AT ALL. She’s just a racist who doesn’t believe that Palestinians have the right to resist land theft and brutal occupation by Israel who happens to have a major political lobby here in the United States of America. So no worries…it’s a just a coincidence.
I knew she was “progressive except Israel” , and it is very sad. How can anyone with a brain and compassion look at the timeline and pretend
1.The “rockets” are not a very late response after a month of Israeli goading by attacks, murders, house wreckings, arrests in the WB after the “teen kidnaps”
2. The rockets have a chance one or less in a thousand of killing an Israeli citizen, either by luck or lack of accuracy, or the “iron dome”, so why the need for ANY attack on Gaza, which had nothing to do with the “kidnaps/murders” as Netanyahu knew from the start.
3. Gaza’s crowding, lack of any army, navy, even one ship or aircraft makes ludicrous the nonsense of “hiding weapons”… while the Israeli IOF (our friends!!!) killed over 2000 people, over 500 children and destroyed the already polluted and deprived Strip full of actual, if not chosen, human beings.
Lauren wants to know what the fuck happened to FREE SPEECH?
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Lauren hates your new cover change it back. And fuck you. CIA and DOD
This is a test to see if commenting works.
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Hi Lyra, do you see my comment above? I was able to leave a new comment.
this truly saddens me.
I had such hopes for Warren until I read this article.
It’s yet another reminder to vote with our conscience and NOT for the “lesser evil” as many Americans have done in the past.
It is time to vote for the people we would like to see in office, and if they are not running, encourage them to do so.
It is time for “the people” to put “the people” into charge. We need to stop special interest in government as well as secrecy. If you’re an elected official you should have to answer to all questions “the people” have.
It might sound naive to many, but please think about this and step up to the big plate ahead.
WE, THE PEOPLE, can do this. It will undoubtedly take some time to carry fruit, but if we don’t start now, it will be too late.
NOTICE TO ALL READERS:
Apparently The Intercept is experiencing minor technical difficulties in the comments section related to the new website design.
The ADD COMMENT link from the radio at the top of the comments section is not working.
TO ADD A NEW COMMENT, PLEASE SCROLL TO THE END OF THE COMMENTS SECTION. THE NEW COMMENT FORM IS VISIBLE THERE AND YOUR COMMENT CAN THEN BE MADE.
May the force be with you!
Always good to hear people of influence sticking up for Israel’s right to do what every country in the world does, and defend itself from terrorists that seek its destruction.
Israeli was founded by terrorists who ethnically cleansed the native Palestinians from their land. Israel continues this policy with their illegal settlement expansions. Israel tries to quell the justified resistance to land theft and oppression with the Break the Bones Strategy and slaughter. The world is waking up to Israel’s horrific behavior which is rooted in racism . The Zionists have successfully fooled a lot of people for a while now, but thankfully that’s starting to change.
Occupation 101 (Beak the Bones Strategy at 9:00 min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMOtFy09ZmI&feature=youtu.be
I will NOT be voting for her EVER again…
MODERATOR: So who should we vote for?
REPUBLICAN: Rand Paul. Although I do agree that it seems that he is more interested in politics than the country. But we republicans are able to overlook the shortcomings of our candidates.
DEMOCRAT: Elizabeth Warren. Although she is beginning to look more and more like a politician.
LIBERTARIAN: Gary Johnson. Even though he might not win. We want to make a point.
PROGRESSIVE: (Weeping) No one. I can’t take it anymore… boo hoo.
MODERATOR: No one like Hillary?
EVERYONE: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
MODERATOR: How about Jesse Ventura?????
EVERYONE: YEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!!!!!!
JESSE FUCKING VENTURA…. The last American politician standing.
Whether or not Hillary Clinton actually does run for president in 2016, it’s discouraging that the US public has allowed it to be possibility or probability or even a consideration much less a popularly believed inevitability. Because, there is nothing more that needs to be known about Hillary Clinton than what is already known. We should all, by now, know enough to dismiss her once and for all. Charles Pierce must be asking or hoping rhetorically about if she can do better. She can’t. It seems that Hillary Clinton doesn’t really pay attention to what goes on in the world. Most everything out of her cackling pie hole is banalities such as what she had to say about Ferguson. Her banalities read like cliff notes from a combination of the consultants, marketers, lawyers and so on that TallyHoGazehound listed. Expecting anything but banalities to come from Hillary Clinton is, at this time, after all of these years of her being on the world stage, a masochistic adventure.
Unfortunately, Hillary might well be elected simply because she would be the first female president, just as Obama is the first (genuine) black president. But we have seen where that has taken us. This aspiration to elect the first of whatever has blinded the American people to the real consequences of their choices.
Also, Hillary might be elected simply because the Republicans will nominate another empty suit like Romney (third time’s the charm!) or a certifiable loon like Ted Cruz.
Thank you Tally for another great insight from this passionate conscientious man.
I know she can’t, SHE CAN NOT, do better than that – and at the Clinton Foundation where she says they say ‘we’re all in this together’ – she’s right. But the ‘all’ she means is the 0.01% who are by divine right above the law.
But for me, and you and many more, we are with this man, “Chris Lollie, (a black man) was charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct, and resisting arrest” for sitting quietly in a shopping mall while waiting to pick up his children.
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/the-99-point-99-percent?click=feed
People out there! Don’t ever tell me again that racism does not exist, that it’s a class problem. It isn’t – it’s a problem of Corrupt Power that has gone decades without much criticism because it has affected, more than any other group, black Americans who know, while the vast majority regard our culture as post-racial, the Power Elite refine their techniques on black communities almost invisibly and mostly unchallenged.
So how is it so many, especially whites and Asians, have ignored this reality? Short answer – Because that violent power hasn’t yet been brought down on us. And also because it’s difficult work to look inside and trace the threads of our own culpabilities. As Alexa O’Brien (h/t Tally) so poignantly told us “the line of complicity runs through each of us”, and we are all of us at fault, all of us power hungry, all of us racist and all in varying degrees.
We have given over our own power, in part or in toto, to an imposter Authority that deflects us away from the inner work of human development, work that when undertaken imbues the doer with the most real power – power over himself and power to bring about true well-being and welfare in his local community.
What a fucking idiot. You really have to avoid reading anything about Israel and Gaza in order to keep yourself ignorant enough to say such things.
Yeah! Ain’t it the truth!
Here’s some Bernie Sanders and constituents on Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf2cCdgwgoM
in case the embed below doesn’t work.
Who do you vote for anymore??????? They all say the same old tired things…we are in a pitiful state.
What seems to be getting lost in this entire conversation is the spark that set this latest conflict off. That being the death of three Israeli boys who were hitchhiking from Bethlehem to the city of Hebron, in the occupied West Bank. With no proof whatsoever, Israel blamed the deaths on Hamas (Hamas maintains to this day they had no part in the deaths) and immediately storms Gaza indiscriminately abusing and arresting civilians and ultimately killing a Palestinian teenager in the process. That in addition to the brutal kidnapping and death by burning alive a Palestinian teenager was the official start of retaliation by Hamas. Unfortunately people are senselessly killed everyday in all parts of the world, but this is the only instance where retaliation by brutally destroying a city and killing thousands of people is deemed a reasonable act of self defense??? If Israel is a shining light of democracy controlled by the rule of law, I fail to see it.
It’s amazing how far to the center even the most progressive ‘leftists’ have moved. At a time when we’re being told our politics is the most polarized it’s ever been, the evidence suggests that both parties are essentially the same save for a few domestic issues they routinely clash over.
We can’t vote our way out of Empire, it would seem.
This is so sad.
Are we all SLAVES of Israel and the Neo-Cons.
Has Warren become a clone of Hillary?
Elizabeth Warren supports the terrorist nation Israel. She is not a true progressive.
As I imagine the adaptations to comments are still in work in progress, may I take the opportunity to observe that “load more comments” is a feature that makes the comments difficult to search? And, is therefore less than optimum for an invested reader.
The latest comments are not the first to load either. It takes the “load more comments” selection to get there. What a weird way to do things.
Hey, c’mon guys, give her a chance! She must be playing four-dimensional chess that we can only dream of fathoming!
As a contributor to Warren’s campaign I am extremely disappointed at her stand on Israel’s aggression and deliberate targeting of Palestinian civilians but I understand it. Her votes and her comments in support of Israel’s war crimes clearly indicate that she has designs on higher office in the future. Were she to vote contrary to AIPAC’s orders her national political future would be over, dead. She would probably have a safe senate seat for as long as she wants it but her national aspirations would be over. The pro-Israeli money, media, and political machine never forgets nor forgives.
I supported her with a donation in her campaign against the Wall Street/government cabal even though I am not a resident of her state. Before she has enough seniority to have any possibility of dealing with that problem it will be too late as Wall Street money will have had years to insulate further themselves.
So, I have concluded that the best she can do to show that really believes in what she has preached so far is to essential vote down the line for those who have been extorted by Wall Street or killed and maimed by the US/Israel plutocracy. Apparently she has other designs on her future. Her anti-Wall Street views are now rhetoric. Her support for Israel’s war crimes is ongoing and unforgivable.
Elizabeth “War-R-en my platform” Warren intends to gain influence by providing a fig leaf to the most rapacious warmongers inside and outside the US, just as she did with her gift of banking non-reform to the rapacious banksters.
Nothing quite sucks like premoderation…….
Mr. Greenwald
“……Warren even rejected a different voter’s suggestion that the U.S. force Israel to at least cease building illegal settlements by withholding further aid: “Noreen Thompsen, of Eastham, proposed that Israel should be prevented from building any more settlements as a condition of future U.S. funding, but Warren said, ‘I think there’s a question of whether we should go that far……”
I’m not quite sure what the point of this article is other than to apply public pressure on Ms. Warren. Regardless, the US should not withhold military aid to Israel while Hamas remains armed. That would only embolden the Islamic terrorist organization. Indeed, Mr. Greenwald, have you considered writing an article calling for Iran and Hezbollah to withhold weapons shipments from Hamas while they launch rockets indiscriminately into Israel from civilian facilities in Gaza, and continue to abide by their racist charter which calls for the destruction of the Jewish state, Mr. Greenwald? (No, not likely)
Only if Hamas disarms will peace be even a remote possibility in Palestine. Of course, even if that happened, there would be Islamic Jihad (and six other Palestinian terrorist organizations), al-Qaeda, ISIS and other radical Islamists that would ensure that the security of Israel could never become lax.
Finally, how does Ms. Warren compare to Goebbels?
Don’t you ever get tired of your bullshit Craig?
“……..Don’t you ever get tired of your bullshit Craig?…..”
Never. Don’t you ever get tired on your non responses??
Nothing like that has been in the so called charter or manifesto since 2005 or 2006. Are you senile? I ask because you have been informed of that more times than I would bother to count, but yet you repeat the same “destruction of the Jewish state” trope over and over, nearly nine years after the manifesto removed any such language.
From The Guardian, January 11, 2006:
Kitt
“……..Nothing like that has been in the so called charter or manifesto since 2005 or 2006. Are you senile? I ask because you have been informed of that more times than I would bother to count, but yet you repeat the same “destruction of the Jewish state” trope over and over, nearly nine years after the manifesto removed any such language……..”
Rejecting their charter requires a formal abandonment of the document which has NEVER occurred. Hamas has never rejected their charter, but chooses to keep it for “historical” purposes. Are you kidding me? That is what Hamas deems more important than the 2000 people killed including 500 children? That seems to be a lot like diverting money and resources to tunnel building while their constituents are idle without work – and dying where Hamas launches missiles. It’s was simply election year propaganda by the terrorist organization. According to Mondoweiss:
“……..Klein explains that Hamas will not revoke their Charter because it represents an important historical document for the group, which was written at the time of their inception during the first Intifada. The Charter, however, is not representative of Hamas in its current form. There are more contemporary Hamas documents, such as their 2006 election manifesto…….”
According to Wikipedia:
“……In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is “a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons.”[6] [bullshit]………….Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar stated that any talk of the 1967 lines is “just a phase” until Hamas has a chance to “regain the land…even if we [Hamas] have to do so inch by inch.”[10] Other Hamas leaders, including Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal have also stated repeatedly that “Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it,”[11] and that “we shall not relinquish the Islamic waqf on the land of Palestine, and Jerusalem shall not be divided into Western and Eastern Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a single united [city], and Palestine stretches from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and from Naqoura [Rosh Ha-Niqra] to Umm Al-Rashrash [Eilat] in the south.”[12][13] My brackets
Sounds a hell of a lot like their “rejected” charter, doesn’t it?
Thanks.
Well then, it’s good thing that Israel slaughtered all of those infant babies and young children and old men and old and young women and young men in Gaza. And it’s a good thing that they wiped out so many homes and buildings and electricity and water and everything that humans need to survive on, because, well fuck, according to the worldly and deeply concerned CraigSummers, Hamas has an age old sentence in some piece of paper that someone penned that CraigSummers is wildly in love with because he thinks it defends his opinion that mass murder is AOK. Put another way, or more simply, you’re an apologist for mass murder on a vast, vast scale. And for some reason you’re as proud as the cat that just dropped the half eaten dead mouse at the master’s door step about it.
CraigSummers conjecturing on Israel and Hamas is like David Duke speculating on South Africa and the ANC
You just lost my vote and my respect. It is situations like this one that distinguishes between those who support truth and those who put their political career above what is right. I hope I never be like that.
The entire scumbag Congress needs their faces shoved in a pool of Gaza children’s blood…notwithstanding a pile of their own shit.
It is disheartening that Israel is viewed as the aggressor, regardless of facts. It is reassuring and encouraging that Israel will defend its citizenry, both Jewish and Arab, against violence and destruction. It is my impression here that this website is meant to attack Zionism as a matter of course. There is no discussion on the destructive mission of Islamism, which now has reached an all time bloodlust as found in Isis.
You also pick and choose political representatives like the flavor of the month . Last month, everyone loved Bernie samedis and Elizabeth Warren. Today, they are puppets of American Jewry. As long as your pol of choice bashes a) Israel b) Jews c) Jewish Americans or d) Zionists, they get your vote. If not, they are fetid pigs . The bigotry and hatred expresses on this site underscores and reinforces the need, mandate, and imperative that Israel must survive because of the murderous impulses expressed and directed towards Jews.
Hey “Mr,” do you post this amateur Hasbara Brigade trash regularly? Do you run your mouth in person to people you meet on the street? Do you have conversations with friends, acquaintances, coworkers and so where you spout similar junk as what you’ve posted here? If so, I wonder how you are received. After all, most people don’t appreciate being lied about and or excoriated by someone projecting their ugly fantasies onto them.
You’re not well spoken, and you sure as all hell don’t speak for all Jews or, for that matter, for anyone but yourself.
Here are some others to explain to you in more detail:
“JEWS DEMAND LEADERSHIP TO END BLOCKADE OF GAZA
Members of Jewish Voice for Peace call for Jewish leaders to stand up for Justice in Palestine, end to the Israeli Occupation of Palestine
New York, NY (August 20, 2014)—A group of 30 members of Jewish Voice for Peace visited the UJA-Federation of New York offices on Wednesday to demand that the institutional Jewish leadership take a public stand for an immediate ceasefire and an end to the blockade of Gaza that makes life unbearable for Palestinian residents. Activists delivered a petition signed by over 30,000 concerned members and supporters of Jewish Voice for Peace calling on Federation President Jerry Silverman to make a public statement in support of ending the siege of Gaza. Following JVP Executive Director Rebecca Vilkomerson’s personal delivery of the petition to Federation staff, JVP members staged a street performance illustrating how the blockade operates. Dressed in all black, some participants stood close together in a line to simulate the blockade, while others pretended to be food, medical supplies, building supplies, and other restricted items attempting to break through.”
Israel is the aggressor by any objective reasoning, and no amount of your pathetic drivel can change that well documented fact. Israel, not Jews, got it? Glad I could help you. You sure need it. The weaker than dog piss (commercial American beer) suggestion that all those critical of Israel are anti-Semitic is one of the most truly disgusting bits of propaganda of recent times.
Jackie & Roy – Samba Triste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoDBKQge4NY
I am certainly not trying to defend the woman in any way about anything. But do you people realize how extraordinarily difficult it is for American politicians to obtain the power they so gluttonously strive for, if they buck AIPAC, et. al? http://nyr.kr/1veLq8S
But do you people realize how extraordinarily difficult it is for American politicians to obtain the power they so gluttonously strive for, if they buck AIPAC, et. al?
Yes. Anyone who has been reading Greenwald for years knows that this is not a new topic and that he has written persistently about the influence of AIPAC et al.
But do you people realize how extraordinarily difficult it is for American politicians to obtain the power they so gluttonously strive for, if they buck AIPAC, et. al?
Yes. Anyone who has been reading Greenwald for any length of time is aware of the influence wielded by AIPAC as he’s written on the topic repeatedly. I believe the goal is to make everyone aware of the extent to which given politicians, in this case Elizabeth Warren, are acquiescent to that influence. I think that’s something very important for the population to know so that they can demand different behavior if they disagree with that subservience.
And, my kingdom – such as it is – for a preview function.
I’d have to agree with you. And for me at least that puts an end to whatever hope we had of breaking away from exceptionalism.
EmileZ offers a relevant article/perspective piece by Paul Street about our buddy Bernie from ZCommunications…
http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/reflections-on-a-bernie-sanders-presidential-run/
Hello everyone – is anyone reading now?
What does everyone think of the the new format? My reactions:
Positive: the comments section is really clean and readable
Negative: It took a moment to find the new article on Sen. Warren. While I like the new front page, it could use a bit of tweaking.
Also on the comments, when I clicked the Add a comment button it didn’t work, so I’m trying to reply to —- someone and see if that works. Thanks for your understanding whoever I’m replying to :-)
`feline..
On my end, the page loads w/ the first comment posted, and then reverts back to the most current comment once I’ve engaged the ‘more comments’ icon..
Yes, it is odd. You immediately lose your bearings when the “load more comments” button is clicked.
It wouldn’t suck to have the option of newest/oldest first.
It has nothing to do with being Jewish or having duel citizenship. Its simply campaign contributions and concerted pressure by PAC’s. You play along you get lots of money and support, if you don’t, the money goes to your opponent and your name is mud, think nasty articles and no xmas cards, then times it by 1000.
If you want to be an Israeli citizen you have to be Jewish or else be one of the Palestinians who managed not to be ethnically cleansed in 1948.
Meanwhile all of those you mentioned plus the rest of our government are in the clutches of the Israeli Lobby, primarily AIPAC, which ensures that any member of Congress who deviates from the AIPAC line will either lose his or her seat in the next election or find that lots of Lobby money is flowing to their opponent. For the most part AIPAC controls US policy regarding Israel. They often write the legislation and every member of Congress can expect a call or a visit from an AIPAC member who will expect that member to vote the way AIPAC wants.
We probably wont know what Warren really thinks about this issue until her memoirs come out, maybe not even then. As far as Israel is concerned every vote and every opinion has been bought, AIPAC and the gang write their own legislation, and woe betide any member of congress or the senate that doesn’t read from script. I’m actually amazed that you lot, with your world famous patriotic American zeal, seem content to have had your entire elected body cuckolded by another country.
Fuck’s sake I have to spell everything out? Since there is plenty of real dirt out there is no use debasing oneself by partaking in a conspiracy theory. Got it, cupcake?
That’s great Glenn. That’s just fantastic. But where the hell are we supposed to go then? Hillary is a traitor. Rand Paul is drinking from the cup of Adelson. And now Warren is revealing her politician’s DNA. Where the hell is the progressive supposed to go? Where the hell is the libertarian supposed to go?
When you have to blatantly lie or side with criminals, your in the wrong line of work.
As long as we have an official US foreign policy of “internationalism” rather than neutrality (usually mislabeled “isolationism”), the US will inevitably be drawn into conflict and engaged in war. It does not matter if this dangerous habit occurs directly by US intervention or indirectly through alliance. This mistake owes to a choice, not a necessity.
Awwww…Sad face for Glen…another “.. inspiring left-wing icon of the Democratic Party..” causes him some disappointment…Oh well…back to unicorn hunting in never-never land…
Time to get serious about a truly progressive third party – the largest one in the U.S. in the Green Party. I am presuming, because of their staunch anti-war stand and past and ongoing support of Gaza, they would be against Israel’s Occupation, Oppression, and Massacring of the Palestinian People–and against this latest onslaught.
GREEN PARTY http://www.gp.org/index.php
and re PEACE, Justice: support of GAZA:
http://www.gp.org/committees/intl/
jyt – a “third party” person since 2004 ~ tho I had “hope” with Obama the first round…
So…now we know for sure. Makes me think she and Hil could be on the same ticket…but not with my vote. I am continually sickened by the head nodding and ass kissing given to AIPAC and Isreal. This issue alone is enough to make me turn away from a candidate. I am saddened to find out that she and Bernie support Israel. Anyone supporting what Israel is doing to Gaza needs their head examined.
SENT TO Sen. Warren at her website’s contact page:
Dear Elizabeth Warren:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Elizabeth-Warren-finally-s-by-Glenn-Greenwald-Carnage_Elizabeth-Warren_Israel_Netanyahu-140828-267.html
I am sorry that your reasoning about Palestine / Israel and Israel’s recent onslaught of the Gaza Strip is not more holistic and accurate. I fear that you, too, have been sucked into the “strategic” support of Israel, right or wrong, with AIPAC at the helm influencing our Congress.
In context of the ongoing Occupation, Oppression, and Massacring of Palestinians since 1947, your position is abominable. Even if Hamas has used civilian sites as launching areas (which is NOT true in every case, b.t.w.) – which is not such a bad idea, b.t.w., in that any DECENT nation would still not strike such areas; Israel and any nation cannot just strike at civilian areas for that reason.
Violence is no way to solve the problem of Israel’s unprotected Occupation, its Oppression and clever manipulation / obstruction of movement on the People of Palestine, and its occasional Massacres of Civilians just because they have risen up against a tyrannical takeover.
Israel was formed wrongly and without regard to the Balfour Declaration: which warned for Jews to respect that others–Palestinian–already lived in the region.
Did the Zionists do that? Respect the other inhabitants?
No Way….
Have you no respect for this truth!!
ISRAEL is the problem, and America has fomented this for decades.
ISRAEL needs to be tried for war crimes through the ICC – which Palestine is rightly seeking to join. Hamas may be culpable as well, but not as horrifically as Israel in this last onslaught. Hamas’ “rockets” are not “terrorist” any more than the IDF’s fierce and totally-destructive weaponry is terrorist–which in context of the entrapment of the Gazans, is very terroristic!
I am ashamed of you and of my Congress for simply “going along” with the slaughter of all these civilians, a fourth of them children. The “negotiated” result that has ensued could have been negotiated without violence. It’s so absurd and Israel is so hawkish, with the blessing of America’s weapons, monies, and penchant for violence–a violence upon which this country was formed–and which has never stopped:
Native Indians
North and South
Slavery
Guns in society
Brutish Capitalism
WWII Hiroshima A-bomb
Korean War
Viet Nam and other entanglements like Panama
South America
Gulf Wars
Iraq, and Iraq, and now Iraq!
MiddleEast generally w/ a vulgar US Embassy in the middle of Baghdad – when that war killed an estimated million, mostly civilians, babies, children, mothers… and that war was based on a lie!
Just because “that part of the world is dangerous” (as you say) does not mean to invade it and stir up MORE problems!! which indeed America has done, and maybe they don’t care, because then they can use even MORE force, and cause MORE sadistic suffering.
Toppling of leaders if they didn’t do what “we” wanted…disgusting!!
Look at the Nordic Way of life–the lack of corruption and “special interests”, the success of the countries of Iceland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, and Sweden. There’s no reason why we cannot emulate that model, state by state…AND bug out of the Israel / Palestine situation, and other situations, except to encourage PEACEFUL negotiations. Instead of weaponry, we need to provide free education, including college, for all. Nurture a creative, settled, and secure society… Bring happiness to people, instead of war and war and more war.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Elizabeth-Warren-finally-s-by-Glenn-Greenwald-Carnage_Elizabeth-Warren_Israel_Netanyahu-140828-267.html
jyt
I get sick of politicians like Elizabeth Warren who lie to their teeth by saying she is not corrupt. She is sold to the Zionists like hell. That is how and why she lies and she has become so cruel. She will lose election if she did not sell- out to the Zionist money for her campaigns. Voting for a republican is a better way of wasting a vote rather than voting for a lying hypocrite such as Elizabeth Warren.
Glenn, knowing as you must, that every person in Congress is kept under close watch by NSA watchers, are there any documents freed from captivity by Snowden that point to specific acts of overseeing of members and their staffs? If so, can you reveal that they exist and that they function to induce compliance, without of course, revealing individual misbehaviors provided they are of a purely personal nature and not instances of law-breaking which, were one of us to commit, we’d be prosecuted for and likely found guilty?
Well, there was Jane Harmon’s little incident, which seemed to indicate at the time that she was accidentally collected due to the person she was speaking to being tapped.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/rep-harman-wiretapped-or-overheard-on-a-wiretap
Then there was the CIA spying on DiFi’s staff. But I think the biggest indicator for me was when Bernie Sanders directly asked them that question and theyb asically gave him a non-answer:
Or maybe you could call it an “indirect” answer of, “You aren’t as special as you might think.” Or something.
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/04/nsa-wont-say-whether-it-spies-on-congress/
Pedinska, I didn’t recognize you in this new format – actually I did, just that I didn’t realize you were replying to my question – memory on the blink today. So, Hi!
I was actually thinking along the lines of some congressperson being specifically coerced into compliance with the group’s anti-constitutional consensus regarding a bad bill or something; if Glenn knows of one or more instances of compliance being bought in exchange for keeping secret a criminal act you or I would be charged and prosecuted for if we had and were caught. My spidey sense tells me this is not exactly an uncommon situation up thar in the High Places. So maybe Snowden took a snapshot (so to speak) of one.
That would be an eye-opener for very many Americans, and it would rock the foundations of the corrupt state. Anyway, I’d wish for such a rocking down to the supports.
Thanks so much glenn for writing this. I have long suspected that this “liberal” doesn’t run, as in Texan: “this dog won’t run”.
Isn’t Ms. Warren a front-runner in the 2016 Presidential elections? She has no choice but to lay low on Israel right now. Else, she’d be decapitated by a very strong force, figuratively speaking.
After reading this she lost any attempt at getting a vote from me and anybody in my immediate family. What a lying twit!
Shes’s a US Senator… and they are all owned by the Zionists… if she so much as says anything critical and she never wins another election!
Yes America, 2% of your population runs your government and there’s not a thing you can do about it… now back to fear mongering about a few thousand kids crossing the border!
So true! And, unfortunately Israel has more control over the US than the British had over the 13 Colonies. In day-to-day practice we live in the “US-Israel Empire” rather than the USA.
The following excerpts from responses could just as easily be lifted from a neo-Nazj web site (though they would substitute “communist” for “Nazi”). Just goes to show you the left and right wing extremists have one hatred in common.
Zionist/Nazi International Money Cartel.
The leader of the Zetas drug cartel, was trained by the IDF.
I prefer “Lebensraum” myself.
Nazioniosts
Rothschild Zionist Globalist Nazi.
influence of the international Banking Cartel
the Jewish Zionist media
ISRAELI CITIZENS HOLD KEY US GOV’T POSITIONS
Let’s be realistic. Some of us in the U.S. would like to see Warren run for President. Just maybe, she might be electable. A strong anti-Israel stance would make her virtually unelectable. But at least she stands up for the American people against the corporate/banking lobby. If she gets as far left as Ron Paul, she won’t have a chance. I’m idealistic too, but political reality should temper our idealism into a form of pragmatism.
The following excerpts from responses could just as easily be lifted from a neo-Nazi web site (though the facists would substitute “communist” for “Nazi”). Just goes to show you the left and right wing extremists have one hatred in common.
Zionist/Nazi International Money Cartel.
The leader of the Zetas drug cartel, was trained by the IDF.
I prefer “Lebensraum” myself.
Nazioniosts
Rothschild Zionist Globalist Nazi.
influence of the international Banking Cartel
the Jewish Zionist media
ISRAELI CITIZENS HOLD KEY US GOV’T POSITIONS
As a contributor to Warren’s campaign I am extremely disappointed at her stand on Israel’s aggression and deliberate targeting of Palestinian civilians but I understand it. Her votes and her comments in support of Israel’s war crimes clearly indicate that she has designs on higher office in the future. Were she to vote contrary to AIPAC’s orders her national political future would be over, dead. She would probably have a safe senate seat for as long as she wants it but her national aspirations would be over. The pro-Israeli money, media, and political machine never forgets nor forgives.
I supported her with a donation in her campaign against the Wall Street/government cabal even though I am not a resident of her state. Before she has enough seniority to have any possibility of dealing with that problem it will be too late as Wall Street money will have had years to insulate further themselves.
So, I have concluded that the best she can do to show that really believes in what she has preached so far is to essential vote down the line for those who have been extorted by Wall Street or killed and maimed by the US/Israel plutocracy. Apparently she has other designs on her future. Her anti-Wall Street views are now rhetoric. Her support for Israel’s war crimes is ongoing and unforgivable.
Yes Senator Warren, the relationship is so special that you provide the arms and money to the terrorist state of Israel so it can massacre and burst into pieces innocent women and children. You and the government should be ashamed
The N.S.A. has stalked this 74 year old nobody for 3.5 years and nobody knows why.This government has poured Billions into other parts of the world and nobody knows why.This government can’t afford DENTAL in it’s medicare program and nobody knows why. John Bertotto
She’s just a very average american politician who run’s scared when ever the Israel Question rears its ugly head. Better support them no matter how many hospitals, schools, houses or people they bomb and kill cause if I don’t I can kiss my seat good-bye. Thank god I live in the UK were we only deliver platitudes to Israel and not billions of dollars of military equipment like the US does .
She maybe the best we have, but with that attitude she is not fit to be president. If she respected international law and the Geneva Convention she could not think that way.
Bibi’s clone ??? This is the side of Warren that will 86 her aspirations for any form of ‘national’ office. Blatantly backing WAR CRIMINALS and an Apartheid government will tear a hole in the heart of her support. Sorry Ms. Warren, this position WILL BE your undoing.
HEY! To my tribe, I’m more than a Senator, I’m a frigging squaw.
Gaza is about a third the size of NYC. Imagine if the police firebombed a building or two (each day for many days) because some bad guys were hiding “near schools and hospitals”? Of course the enemy combatants are going to be near civilians in such a small space. How about letting civilians leave the area, since there’s obviously no way for them to get out of the way? Oh, wait, yes you have them walled in. Nice. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Well,as Israel is rather small itself,don’t they place their weapons near schools hospitals etc?The headquarters of the IDF are in a residential neighborhood.Doesn’t that make them what they accuse others of?The hypocrisy is staggering.
I’ll take a safe chance of being correct to say her opposition to banks is for show and any opposition she mounts in future critical opportunities will be constructed in such a way as to be easily overcome, saving both the Banks and her superficial anti-bank face.
Undoubtedly, hawk tripe of all kinds is essential to the health of the banks. Do you expect her, Glenn, to jeopardize her nice salary, her very nice retirement plan, and those cushy health benefits that she’ll receive on the backs of her voters who cannot afford the Gold and Diamond plans, or whatever they’re called, that Congress gets?
It’s pointless to expect anything resembling Rule of Law to come from either wing of the vulture.
Time for a new and better party! Whoops, don’t bother. As RP’s attempts to change the order of things political were met with intense ridicule, Ross Perot’s were met with threats against his daughter’s life. Truth is a worthless currency in the Halls of Power.
Nicely put, Seer.
Thanks John. I recall we first met over the definition of conservative. With that in mind I thought of you the other day when I read this – http://www.theamericanconservative.com/who-we-are/
BTW, there are good articles in The American Conservative you’d find much to agree with. And some that would make you shiver. But it’s important to find points of agreement with those we are supposed to hate (divide and conquer, and all that) so to become united against tyranny and win.
Elizabeth Warren has been typecast as a flaming leftist recently due to her moderate, mid-century populism. Most of her positions would have been considered centrist in ~1974, and they are still centrist today.
We tend to forget this, because half our media & government has been hijacked by ultra-ultra-rightwing grifters. Their “opposition” — our self-dealing Democratic establishment — ceased working on behalf of the greater American community >30 years ago. Today they are mainly fixers and facilitators, who believe in tossing a few bones to the little guys in order to secure their own place at the top of the heap.
If you recognize that she is a bit of a throwback to our populist but martial Cold War past………… the entire package makes sense. She’s immensely valuable, given the vicious “libertarianism” that rules today. She’s aware of the interests of the average man*, and is less in hock to aggressive special interests than most of the clowns in D.C.
However, she seems to regard the way we used to do things, c. 1974, as the ideal to strive for. I think the population of both America and the greater world has changed too much in the past 40 years for that to be so. We’d like less economic devastation sure, well paved roads, libraries with new chairs and rugs, properly staffed municipal government offices, etc. We’d like a lot of what typified that era, including jobs that can support a man’s family.
But, running the whole damned world has gotten too costly. In every way. It’s been a stunning failure too. I’m not a great devotee of failure, no matter how nostalgic it may be.
*(moreso than Glenn, from all evidence.)
Depends on your definition of “interest”. Today the average man requires subjugation in the supply chain. As he did in 1974. As he did in 1774.
Glenn is a Nietzsche fan, iirc.
Israel the ally, not the chief? Ok: what are the benefits USA has from this ally?
The USA is losing all reputation it had, thanks to this ally.
What does this “ally” bring for the US taxpayer?
The US economy?
It’s just too funny to listen to these vassals, because it’s so obvious who controls America.
Warren should be pressed relentlessly to fund an iron dome for Gaza and expose her vile hypocrisy.
If you don’t like what she has to say, shouldn’t you address your beefs to Netanyahu?
People should refrain from criticizing politicians. Any politician’s expressed position does not reflect their own ideas, but rather is calculated to achieve a political outcome. If they are elected, they will have proved the critics wrong and can ignore them. If they fail to be elected, they become irrelevant and any criticism is pointless. So either way, criticism serves no useful purpose.
Some might feel that praising a politician is equally pointless. But if they are elected, they may fondly remember that praise, and reward you for it. So praising politicians does serve a useful purpose.
Indeed, Duce, although as Glenn points out, she has already acted on her beliefs to some extent, or at least in voting another quarter-billion toward the Iron Dome system, and may very well vote funds for Operation Iranian Freedom when that kicks off. Worse yet, if she is reporting warmed-over Party talking points it suggests that she’s malleable, a mannequin that the right handlers can twist every which way. It would also have been nice if she had tried to square it with her other positions, e.g., “Well, yes, I realize that $3 billion a year could build a lot of infrastructure, schools, and bridges and stuff, but –” (Incidentally, that rhetorical method, Duce, is called the Nixon Segue).
I realize, of course, that politicians can turn out to be the antithesis of what they promised — Barack Obama is a good example — but they can also turn out to be a Disneymatron version of a leader, where you pull its string and it stands up and gives pre-recorded messages. The fix is in: who do we vote for now, Medea Benjamin?
Thanks Coram! What a fraud Warren has exposed herself to be.
This:
“American elections in their current form constitute nothing less than an auction, where billionaire banksters use a variety of corporate and PAC fronts to appoint the person they believe will be most subservient to their agenda…”
Campaign Finance Fix | Left Hook by Dean Henderson
http://hendersonlefthook.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/campaign-finance-fix/
“American elections in their current form constitute nothing less than an auction, where billionaire banksters use a variety of corporate and PAC fronts to appoint the person they believe will be most subservient to their agenda.”
Dean Henderson is one of my favorites.
It is a sign of hope for the future that ‘liberals’ are being questioned on how they can claim that label and support the Israeli regime. And, maybe the next time someone hears Warren spout the regime’s line about how locating military targets right next to hospitals etc. makes it okay to attack those hospitals etc. using precision weapons (or to ignore the presence of those hospitals etc and instead of using precision weapons, use ones notorious for being not precise) someone will point out to her that, under exactly that logic, Israeli hospitals, malls, etc. are also legitimate targets, and JSIP (Jewish State in Palestine) militants use the Israeli population as human shields (along with their track record of using the Refugees as human shields by grabbing them off the street at gunpoint to stand between them and resistance fighters, as well as holding families captive in homes that JSIP turns into temporary military outposts and fire points) by, for example, locating their HQ less than a stones throw from a civilian hospital, as well as a hotel, shopping mall, and office buildings. Then they can ask her, given her stated stance, to clearly state that by her reasoning and logic, it is JSIP militants who bear the responsibility for every Israeli civilian death (like. for instance, the first ‘civilian’ Israeli casualty, who willingly traveled to the heart of the conflict zone, and willingly placed himself amongst armed JSIP militants, while providing support for them, which would make everyone place him amongst the noncivilian casualties if he’d been on the other side, of the last civilian Israeli casualty, the young boy killed in an attack on a senior JSIP commander who decided to surround himself with the civilian population of that boy’s village, something not mentioned in the stories about that boy’s death, but which I had to find out about by reading the Haaretz article about how JSIP had become concerned about Hamas penetrating JSIP security and managing to target the senior JSIP commanders when they visited the hot zone)
You’d figure their would be one honest reporter left in the MSM to report that obvious hypocrisy.Alas.
Social Security used to be the 3rd rail of American politics. Now, it’s support for Israel. It’s amazing to see unconditional support for Israel among a body of politicians that normally couldn’t agree that it’s sunny outside.
Actually sad to watch these tools bow to AIPAC any chance they get. In general, Americans know that AIPAC has hijacked our foreign policy. Sooner or later it is going to come back to haunt us and Americans are going to blame all the jews for AIPAC’s actions.
when i hear politicians like ms warren sputter away i’m remided of bob dylan’s words that mark them for what they are:
“Masters Of War”
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.
.
…. more http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bobdylan/mastersofwar.html
She is another bitch of the first class – mouthing the same old crap about the Nazioniosts being democratic and not intentionally killing women and children. Another one of bought politicians who prize the Zionists contributions more than human life. I am ashamed to be call a New Englander and be represented by the likes of her ilk..
Please don’t muddy the waters by using the sexist, and anti-canine, slur, “bitch”, in denouncing, however correctly, a female human.
No good sense in insulting dogs.
You’re cool with the anti-semitism though.
Progressives in Washington have always been among the strongest proponents of the war machine. Without embarrassment on the campaign trail in Vt, Bernie Sanders sings the praises of General Dynamics which has a large plant in Burlington, Vt where rockets and missile launchers are made. Many of those weapons make their way to Israel and other ME countries.
Chalmers Johnson said that one of the main reasons that the military budget can’t be cut the way it needs to be is that any such proposals are met with a firestorm of protest from the most liberal members of congress.
recommend Dennis Perrin’s “Savage Mules” on this dynamic.
also this Matt Stoller analysis only seems to get stronger with time
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/12/matt-stoller-why-ron-paul-challenges-liberals.html
The Love of money is the root of all politics.
“General Dynamics which has a large plant in Burlington, Vt where rockets and missile launchers are made. Many of those weapons make their way to Israel and other ME countries.”
That makes Burlington, VT a legitimate target for destruction by defenders of Palestine, according to Warren’s and Sanders’ standards.
Not exactly a secret: http://elizabethwarren.com/issues/foreign-policy#israel
See also: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/surprise-courageous-elizabeth-warren-is-craven-on-israel-lobby.html
And I seem to recall she weighed in on Cast Lead in favor of the Israelis but honestly don’t feel like wasting a Google search on such an obvious corporatist/imperialist in sheep’s clothing. She was fine with Libya. She’s fine with demonizing Iran. If she had been in the Senate in 2003 she’d have been fine with the Iraq War.
Despite decades of evidence people still don’t “get it”: you CANNOT reach any political position of any real significance in the US if you are an actual “progressive”. If you’re the rare Kucinich in the bunch and somehow sneak past the bouncers, enjoy it while it lasts.
Was this the U.S.’ stance in it’s relationship with South Africa during apartheid? Implying that it was the only democracy in “that part of the world” and that we need an ally there?
Maybe it’s just domestic issues that she is a wing nut on. Who knew?
Now I realize how our education system has failed America. Ignorance is not bliss, people. There is NO “occupation.” There are only terrorists (Hamas +) and the poor, manipulated Arab denizens in Gaza Read some history. Get off you mind-zeroing gadgets! Even the writer of this ‘article’ is ignorant. Go on – be proud of your ignorance. The more you talk/write, the harder I laugh!
History is written by man. I suggest you visit Israel and Palestine. No human being has the right to condemn a people (mostly children ) to death because the US has deem them terrorists. God sees the truth.
Samantha Power? How ironic, how laughable that her comment oozes the utter stupidity she thinks she denounces.
Bullshit
The West Bank and East Jerusalem are defined as an illegal occupation under international law. In the the case of Gaza, the international court of justice has defined that effective control and not a physical occupation is the test for an occupation.
Why did Israel pull settlers out of Gaza and isolate it like a prison instead? Was it a concession in the peace process, as Israelis always claim? Ariel Sharon’s chief of staff Dov Weisglass says otherwise:
“The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process. And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress.”
Over 3,000 views in six days: absolutely everything you need to know about Israel, Gaza, and America in ten minutes…in an open letter to Harry Reid!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ejuG05N1s&feature=youtu.be
What a disappointment to learn that a Senator who is so savvy on domestic issues is so naive on foreign policy.
Reminds me of Robert Redford’s final line in “The Candidate.”
I think it’s a mistake to suggest she is naive. She’s not. She’s part of the gang now and can’t break those bonds the gang has forged with Israel. She’s fully aware and has made her choice. You might walk away from such a choice, as I would. But she’s chosen to go along with the fraud. And, it pays well.
Seer, I think you have nailed it.
Anybody home?
It’s why many have simply given up on the two party duopoly to be anything but what it is, representation for the rich and powerful. Follow the money, that’s all you need to know. Nothing short of economic collapse will change anything in a meaningful way. Stop looking for “hope and change” from Washington and you’ll avoid the inevitable disappointment. Warren is no better than ( gag ) Hillary and the rest. Her shtick is consumer/banking reform ( ala McCain’s “we shouldn’t torture because I had it done to me, blah blah”), it’ll go absolutely nowhere beyond window dressing but it makes her look like some knightress in shining armor looking out for the little guy.
This entire destruction of Gaza was an implementation of the Dahiya Doctrine….do Not let anyone manipulate you regarding this as in “tunnel decommissioning” or any other deceptive slant. Stick with the Dahiya Doctrine.
I prefer “Lebensraum” myself.
Yes. It’s a policy of collective punishment, it is rank criminality, and it’s not even obfuscated in Israel proper. That the Dahiya Doctrine is still relatively obscure in “the discourse” is a testament to the amount of aggregated hasbara we have to shovel before we can even have a sound conversation.
By name, the Dahiya Doctrine may be obscure but the claim that it’s lack of personal notoriety “…is a testament to the amount of aggregated hasbara we have to shovel before we can even have a sound converation.” Implies that asymmetric warfare is a totally new concept. War is war is war. The Dahiya Doctrine simply admits to the same crimes that all nations commit in war times.
You’re free to read into it if you like. War isn’t war at all though. War changes. Look at the last century. Airforce, Nuclear Weapons, Game Theory, Mass Media, the Geneva Conventions, the UN, all major influences on how war is fought and not fought compared to the previous era.
So it may be true that this violent settler colonialism exists in the 21st century, but there’s a reason Amer-Israel doesn’t discuss its policy as such. The 2-state Delusion still exists. Why? Why are policies obscured if they are, as you say, plainly obvious? Why spend money on Hasbara? What is the threat exactly?
Hey Glenn,
Why the focus on Warren and Israel? There’s no presidential candidate that won’t support Israel’s illegal use of force since that directly challenges the US’ own illegal use of force internationally. It challenges the notion that the US can do whatever it wants and have whatever it wants. So it seems pointless to keep criticizing Israel’s crimes since the US’ norm of using force illegally is the primary issue; Israel’s crimes are a result. Let’s focus on that and challenge presidential candidates’ positions on that.
Messed up the tags. My words after James’ quote begin with,”Elizabeth Warren isn’t…” Then Glenn’s quote begins at, “In related news…”
To understand why even a “Progressive” such as Warren is entirely captive to the interests of Israel (as Likud defines those), it would be of benefit to read this new New Yorker piece on AIPAC: it’s history, how it works to purchase bipartisan enslavement to Israel, and how it may be beginning to lose influence as younger American Jews get off the Zionist bus.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/friends-israel
Mona – thanks for that link. Very informative, especially for those in the US that have little or no experience with the subject at hand.
We should not have put Elizabeth Warren on that pedestal of our hopes and belief that she could be different. She’s just another disappointing politician.
Each and every American tax payer is forced to accept the blood of innocent Palestinians on their hands. And Warren knows the Israelis are as guilty as the PLO, Hamas, etc. for sabotaging peace efforts over the decades. Cruel death and destruction brings new anti-Israeli fighters and Israel guarantees there will be another and another and another civilian killing war. Israel likes the status quo because its losses are within acceptable limits and it’s profitable so, damn the Palestinians. This is what Warren means by ” America has a very special relationship with Israel.”
“We should not have put Elizabeth Warren on that pedestal of our hopes and belief that she could be different. She’s just another disappointing politician.”
We should not have put Barack Obama on that pedestal of our hopes and belief that he could be different. He’s just another disappointing politician.
Special interest groups always promote their own and say how much better things would be if a member of their special interest group: female, monitory, non-heterosexual, etc. was elected. There is no evidence to support this view… and lots of evidence to the contrary… but the downtrodden often want to believe so badly they suspend their rational thinking, to the degree that they possess it. Now we have ample proof that women and minorities can be every bit as bloodthirsty and greedy and corruptible as white males. People like the Bush family, the Clintons, Warren, and the Obamas are also ample proof that neither party works to implement the wishes of the voters. It’s time to vote these sold out scum out of office. We need a Ron Paul President if we’re going to save our economy or avoid getting sucked into an unnecessary WW3.
Just remember, power corrupts, so don’t be surprised if, when you get someone elected with promise, they end up being broken.
Glenn
As a fellow journo and huge fan of your truth telling, I have to say, I was there in Hyannis and the hugest amount of applause went to Bangert and Noreen, with only wan applause for Warren’s pro-Israel stance. As most of the Cape’s major activists were at that meeting, the public needs to know: the room was preponderantly against Warren’s stand on Gaza, and most of us with very few exceptions are completely opposed to Israel’s policies and brutality, and many of us, including myself, are Jews.
Thank you for that. Good to know the people are awakening.
While Elizabeth Warren has made some great economic speeches, in most respects she has been a loyal adherent of the party, even on domestic issues.
When most of the public, doctors and nurses favored single-payer health care, Warren was insisting her party’s Affordable Care Act and continuing for-profit health care was the only idea worth considering. Today, honest fans should ask her if she predicted what a boon the ACA could quickly be for Hobby Lobby and Judge Scalia in their fight against women’s reproductive choice – and that’s just the beginning. Simple “Medicare for All” could never have any of these problems.
And on foreign policy: if you want to continue the Bush-Obama regime policies on torture (don’t prosecute), suspicionless surveillance (keep it as secret as possible), and invasive mideast wars, etc., it’s not clear why Warren would be any better than Hillary.
US citizens can make a huge difference in the 2016 elections, thanks to the internet. The simple answer is to discover, discuss, promote and vote for Other candidates — not from the two most famously corrupted parties – and stop blaming The Networks or The Money or whining about Citizens’ United when you fail to carry out that core democratic duty. There were several strong presidential candidates on most ballots, including Rocky Anderson and Jill Stein, who progressives failed to discuss out of ignorance or fear of Romney’s strength (which of course was far less real than Obama’s weakness).
I do blame The Press when an entire industry covers a single presidential election story for two years and fails to interview or even mention who is running — who is on the final ballots — instead, exclusively covering the two most corrupt candidates with the most corporate funding.
Perhaps the Intercept will help correct this journalistic malpractice in time for the 2016 elections — I have high hopes for Matt Taibbi’s team.
“Perhaps the Intercept will help correct this journalistic malpractice in time for the 2016 elections — I have high hopes for Matt Taibbi’s team.”
Thank you, David Levitt, for assigning responsibility where it ultimately rests: with the American voters.
Thank you. Unfortunately, falling in line behind Israel is unwavering in the Democratic Party. No discussion, no debate, no nuance.
Even Barbara Lee, who was the only member of Congress to vote against the Iraq War authorization votes for Israel. Oy vey!
Warren’s stance on Israel/Gaza has been a disappointment. But a familiar one.
On a related note, The Intercept should have a section re. politicians who haven’t been compromised by special interests. It should highlight a different member of Congress at least once a week and the good things s/he is doing for the little people.
Of course it will be satire. And I’ll write it. Call me.
I am sorry, I cannot support Warren anymore! She is either ignorant about the Palestinian people and their right to fight against their occupiers, or may be, as a Westerner, completely unemotional about the suffering of Middleastern all together! Too bad, I was so exited about her position on ba ks and the economy! May be someone else with more compassion and international savvy would emerge soon as a reasonable candidate for national and international fair and just policy ! With Global Security in mind for the human race! Hope She would contact Shomsky for illumination on the Israeli/palestinian
Elizabeth Warren is a moron. Plain and simple. She talks the same bullshit Israeli talking points.
Of course, ‘Christian Zionism’ plays strongly in the entire business …
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/14/gods-chosen-a-dumb-idea/
‘God’s Chosen is a Dumb Idea’ can’t be overstated
And for those who prefer the satire:
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/06/23/how-jesus-gets-kicked-out-of-heaven/
^
I think this one’s better: https://richardofoz.wordpress.com/2014/08/09/this-will-settle-the-matter-once-and-for-all-part-4/
“Mainstream Christians apparently believe that those who accept Jesus as their saviour are chosen too, and the Seventh Day Adventists have views on the subject, and the Rastafarians think that the blacks are the chosen race, and they can’t all be right except for black Seventh Day Adventists who convert to Judaism, and I’m not sure I’ve met many of them”
That was actually pretty good. But I’m not certain he strengthened his argument with a reference to Richard Dawkins, after all (bearing in mind I’m not from a Eurocentric culture) I’ve noticed if there is anyone who behaves as if they were ‘god’s chosen’ it is scientists with their secular god and dogma:
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/15/youve-got-apes/
^
Life’s too short to be so serious! Rather than trying to make a serious argument, I think he was really just trying to have a bit of fun with everyone. Read parts 1-3 also.
She’s living in a bubble; neither Israel or the U.S. have the rule of law for the majority of the people; that’s only for the ruling elite, or the Oligarch
Warren is beholden to the Zionist kikes just like everyone else in Washington. I wonder what dirt the Zionist filth have on her?
Thank you for your coo-coo cluckin’ perspective. Don’t forget to iron yer bedsheet fer the meetin’…
Nete, with a name like Vinnie Faggio this guy knows nothing of the Klan. They hate Catholics too, ya know.
People like you take pride in your ignorance – it shows Vinnie, your small-minded, hate-filled upbringing reeks through your words. You probably had to cheat to pass your tests in primary school, while the Jewish boys got top grades and never had to study. That’s all it took to confirm your everlasting jealousy and hatred.
Did you know that Israel is supported by the Zionist group, Christians United for Israel? From its Wiki page: “In March 2012, the organization celebrated its membership passing the one-million mark, a milestone that cements CUFI’s place as the largest US-based pro-Israel organization.”
So Vinnie you old fool, you’ll have review your particular, is it Catholic?, prejudice to include all those non-Jewish Zionists who don’t in the least fit into your lovely label – kikes. And then there’s an Anglican Friends of Israel too. Look it up. The Zionist Lobby is even bigger than your worst, most frightening imaginings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel
Warren knows something you, apparently, do not, or are simply to afraid to say out loud: If Warren comes out against Israel, she will be dead politically. Because the Israel Lobby has a perverse amount of control over Washington’s elected representatives.
And for this, you can blame yourselves. We have all known for a long time that our entire political system is rotted to the core. I’ve never met an adult who disagreed with the comment that “our politicians are bought and paid for”. And I’ve been surveying this issue for over 25 years.
And yet when has campaign finance reform been a top issue among liberals and progressives?
Never. Almost everything that is wrong in our world stems from this single issue – the corruption of the democratic process. Problems like climate change, lack of health care, wealth inequality, lack of jobs and poverty, just to name a few, live and die by the ability of corrupt men to block the will of the people.
We will never solve a single problem facing our world until we have first solved the problem of the corruption of our leaders by campaign cash. You know this. The politicians know this. The big money interests know this.
And yet you all pretend it’s not the case. You sit around talk about this or that and never mention the root of the problem. So when you see someone like Elizabeth Warren, who appears to be a decent person in every other right, permanently attaching her lips to the ass of the nutjob Zionist contingent, blame yourselves. You allowed that to happen.
I’ve been trying to get campaign finance reform on the agenda of liberals, progressives and even conservatives (you might be surprised how many agree) for 25 years. And it’s like pebbles in a pond, rippling out for a time, but then being drowned out by the large stones of idiocy.
What’s exciting is, this gaffe is already losing Warren thousands of supporters and votes. Check out the Huffington Post reaction, where so many Warren supporters get and share news. There are apparently hundreds of voters right there openly, simply rejecting Warren based on this horrifying, disappointing, yet somewhat predictable move. Warren’s support of the status quo in Israel and the middle east has sent the fast-growing 46% of Americans who call themselves “Independent” looking for a new candidate. Ironically, many of those are jewish voters. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/28/elizabeth-warren-defends-_n_5733164.html
After all, the theory that there are millions of bloodthirsty jews who will eagerly vote for anyone who advocates bombing Palestinian hospitals and schools is not just inaccurate — it’s anti-semitic. In the US and especially in NYC, jews famously are the to first stand up for equality and hunan rights, and though AIPAC is huge in Washington and warps our press, it doesn’t represent jews — it represents cowardly, prejudiced politicians’ Fear of losing jewish donors and votes, which is very different.
it is time to start calling a cat , a cat
hamas is not a terrorist group , but a freedom fighter group
the people of gaza have nothing loose , but their chains
wake up world , slavery has been abolished and we are just brainwashed
Thank you Anthony W.
I would only have added highly educated people. It’s not like she hasn’t demonstrated an ability to get into dense policy details in an area that tends to the arcane and convoluted. It’s not like she hasn’t demonstrated the ability to put a really sharp pencil to the cost:benefit ratios in other policy domains. That she has – apparently – evidently – utterly – suspended those faculties to come to her position on Israel (and, Iran) is discouraging. It is very much a mentality – not unlike a belief – that eschews, where there isn’t outright disregard for, evidence to the contrary.
I think it’s a nod to the current fact that no one will be electable in the Democratic party, perhaps in either party, with any other opinion. It’s a sad and sick state of affairs we’re in. Hence all those articles about the death of the Israeli left .. maybe the Jewish left as well, to be more general ….
I think it’s likely that this condition you accurately describe is expressed sometimes as the desire to ‘belong’ and the obligations required of and to belonging. Another word, ‘groupthink’, describes the phenomenon which is common in academia where you might reasonably expect freer or at least fact-based thinking to predominate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
I found another, more interesting, explanation of the phenomenon you refer to:
It’s from a site Geopolitics and Cognition that Meyers turned me on to a while back. I think you’ll find it of interest. I think also, it functions the same way in every hierarchical human and, possibly, primate group, except the very most conscientiously aware ‘liberty-minded’.
http://www.geopoliticsandcognition.com/NormativeThreats.html#theauthoritariandynamic
Another Rothschild Zionist Globalist Nazi.
Mr. Greenwald is nothing more than self-hating Jew.
What an original thought! Did you make that phrase up? That is really something… by which I really mean, that is one of the most stupid remarks yet. No reason to actually contradict any of Greenwald’s copious writings, just use a worn out insult… nice. You must have been a champion of the debate at some point…. maybe on the grade school playground?
He’s way too happy to be a self-hating Jew!
http://stcommunities.straitstimes.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/bxslider_photo/photos/Edward-Snowden-film-201401e.jpg
Here’s a self-hating Jew, Mr. Dan G.
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2012/05/F080514OF17-635×357.jpg
Like it or not anyone with political ambitions in the USA must tow the line on Israel to be a viable candidate. It is as simple as that.
Hamas was created by Israel. It’s a fact. You can google it.
other topics to research:
Balfour Declaration
IBM and the Holocaust
the Transfer Agreement
Also, “The School of the Americas”, of which it is rumored that one of the graduates, the leader of the Zetas drug cartel, was trained by the IDF.
Fun historical fact: Otto Skorzeny, who worked for the 3rd reich, “escaped” american prison shortly after WW2. He ended up helping traing Gaddafi’s men, and then was involved in the Greece civil war. He was interrogated by IDF and let go anyway.
She went down the gutter for me with this.
Glenn and other liberals should press the ACLU and other large liberal organizations to split off of the Democratic party. ACLU should no longer support Democrats and be very vocal about it.
Has anyone ever questioned a politican about using the term “moral imperative”?
It’s a phrase you see often enough, but I wonder how many people using it have done so quite deliberately. I mean, in its original Kantian form, it describes something that is a effectively an inviolable law. Something from which you never waiver (or else you collapse the moral basis for many subsequent decisions).
Perhaps Warren’s admirable constituents can ask her if that’s precisely what she meant regarding support and defense of Israel.
Good for her.She’s 100% correct.Glenn Greenwald thinks you can’t be “Left Wing” if you see no moral distinction between an internationally recognized Jihadist group with genocidal intentions and the a flawed but relatively moral Israel.
He’s wrong.
“flawed but relatively moral”. HA! It’s a moral occupation. Right.
“relatively moral Israel” With what or whom is Israel relatively moral by comparison? Would it be the Palestinians whose children have been butchered by the hundreds? Genocidal intentions? How about genocidal acts?
You are more concerned about statements by Hamas than actual mass murder of civilians by Israel? How fucking shallow can you get? That was rhetorical. Don’t bother answering. We already know.
What a disgusting statement.
Well said, another example of folks worrying more about what Hamas says than Israel does. Amazing ….
If Hamas doesn’t want “children butchered”, they can stop it at any time by simply refraining from launching missiles strikes from inside schools into a sovereign country.
As long as they are actively at war with another country, Hamas, and by extension the collateral damage victims in Palestine, don’t have much leg to stand on. I’m pretty sure Israel would be more than happy to stop, but one way stoppage is unacceptable to most reasonable people.
“recognized Jihadist” versus a recognized terrorist state? The state does wholesale terrorism while Hamas does retail terrorism.
“Very simple. First of all, Hamas charter means practically nothing. The only people who pay attention to it are Israeli propagandists, who love it. It was a charter put together by a small group of people under siege, under attack in 1988. And it’s essentially meaningless. There are charters that mean something, but they’re not talked about. So, for example, the electoral program of Israel’s governing party, Likud, states explicitly that there can never be a Palestinian state west of the Jordan River. And they not only state it in their charter, that’s a call for the destruction of Palestine, explicit call for it. And they don’t only have it in their charter, you know, their electoral program, but they implement it. That’s quite different from the Hamas charter.” Chomsky
She the in the right. Hamus is a killer bunch. Hamus teaches and practices genocide against jews. Just a fact if you know history.
Please cite three “flaws” of Israel’s. Be specific.
A little too ambitious. Overly attractive. Shows a little too much restraint when slaughtering people by the thousands.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39478.htm#
Is this yet another case of an East Coast politician rolling over for the Jews in her constituency?
There’s a good few progressives/democrats/whathaveyou who reckon she’d be most valuable on the Supreme Court. This surely helps their case.
Elizabeth Warren is now dead to me. As is the Democratic party. The next national election will be the first I will not vote in. I’ve been voting continuously since 1965.
John,
Please lodge a protest vote. There are many good people you could write in. Better than skipping it altogether. Thanks.
Putin! Putin! Putin!
You are entitled to your vote.
@ cwradio:
There you go….
I finally gave up voting after Obama so blatantly betrayed the USA after 2008. I took me only a couple weeks after his inauguration to realize his outright lies and obedience to the oligarch masters. I turned voting age in 1973 and voted for democrats ever since then. I am ashamed to say it took me all these years to realize that there was never any difference between the two corporate parties. But I will never participate in the corrupt electoral system in the USA. It is broken beyond repair and those who still advocate voting are nothing but insane fools. Just like I was for all those years. Hear’s hoping that the people wake up and refuse to participate in a system that is designed to fleece them every moment.
I finally gave up voting after Obama so blatantly betrayed the voters in 2008. I was a sucker for his lies. I continuously voted for democrats since 1973 when I could legally vote. I now realize there never was any difference between the two parties. They are both owned by the oligarchs and only answer to them. I am actually ashamed that I voted all those years out of fear for the “other” party. I was a fool. I hope others wake up and refuse to vote in an electoral system that works for its oligarch owners. The system is so corrupt that it cannot be fixed at this point. To believe otherwise is delusional.
P.S. I apologize if this turns out to be a “double” post. I previously posted something to you that didn’t seem to show up in the comments. I don’t know if I did something wrong or if it is the “internet.”
There is a certain logic to persuading voters not to be. If enough voters declined to vote the election would lose any legitimacy. I don’t see that happening, but it is another avenue to consider. as to your p.s. Everybody’s posts seem to be hit and miss as to if they will show , so, it’s not you.
Elizabeth warren is not gonna end her exciting and promising political career by making herself a target of the vicious, aggressive and very influential pro-Israel establishment. She got no time to answer accusations of antisemitism and no donors for her next senate election.
Just another fascist. Now she’s ready to be presented to the country as Presidential material.
I’m speechless……… I’m shocked at her response… I have to digest this before I can comment. I’m so disappointed. She was such a beacon of hope… Wow
Based on her words, Elizabeth Warren doesn’t think the Palestinians have a right to forcibly resist their occupation. If she really believes that, then to be consistent with that view, she would allow America to become occupied. Either that, or she’s reserving the continual humiliation, oppression, and slaughter just for Palestinians; in which case she’s a racist. If she doesn’t believe her words, then she’s just as unprincipled and corrupt as the rest of DC, i.e., she’s a phony. She’s a despicable person which ever answer is true.
“Elizabeth Warren doesn’t think the Palestinians have a right to forcibly resist their occupation.”
There is a lot there to ponder ……. Warren CLAIMS to be Native American ……. does she believe THE INDIANS were wrong to resist? Does she believe the Indians should drop all of their culture and heritage TOO? As you say, She is just one DESPICABLE EXCUSE for a person. Particularly since she is really NOT Indian.
Pretty sure she only used her ‘Indian blood’ to get bennies available to minorities and not to others. I think she’s been a company gal all along; going along to get along and corrupt as any of the worst.
She did! She certainly has traded heart and soul for something of less substance.
Yes, you certainly have. Do you see Ms Warren’s image when staring into a mirror?
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/12/nprs-dina-temple-raston-passed-cia-funded-nsa-contractor-independent-fear-monger-snowden-reporting/#comment-68477
Elizabeth Warren was ‘outed’, three years ago..
Elizabeth Warren’s Jobs Plan: War with Iran
Posted on October 18, 2011 by Yves Smith
[snip]
‘As much as your humble blogger still regards Elizabeth Warren as preferable to Scott Brown in the Massachusetts Senate race, the evidence from her campaign is that she is no progressive, unless you define “progressive” to mean “centrist/Hamilton Project Democrat willing to throw a few extra bones to the average Joe.”
We’ve warned repeatedly that Warren not being all that left leaning was a real possibility. Her views on anything other than consumer banking regulation were unknown; she was a Republican prior to her conversion experience through extensive research into bankruptcies, which revealed that the overwhelming majority were responsible people who hit a stretch of serious bad luck. As much as her and her daughter’s book The Two Income Trap is well thought out and argued, they structured the problem as narrowly as possible, around the bidding war for housing and how it led more wives into the workforce, ending their role as secret insurance policy/potential breadwinner. The bigger frame, which Warren ignored, was stagnant worker wages and rising income disparity. Including those issues would have led Warren to consider issues like taxation (how income taxes have become less progressive and have also become more favorable to income from capital) and our multinational-favoring trade deals, and our lobbying-driven industrial policy.
A particularly ugly revelation came in the Boston Herald. On the one hand, the Herald is far from in the Warren camp, so it is possible that her remarks were taken out of context. But on the other, the Herald would see saber rattling as a plus, which perversely means they’d be less likely to exaggerate her views:
Huh? Protecting Americans against terrorism is number one? That means it ranks ahead of the rule of law, among other things. And this from a law professor. Glad we got that clear..’
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/elizabeth-warrens-job-plan-war-with-iran.html
Follow
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald
VastLeft uses a chance encounter with Elizabeth Warren to ask her about her hawkish statements on Iran – constructive: http://is.gd/MOq1QR
The Americans should be protecting themselves against all members of the “war party” who are the real terrorists that use their representative positions in the US government to advance the totalitarian goals of the International Central Bankers.
“Our number one responsibility is to protect Americans from terrorism, that’s our job, so being tough on terrorism is enormously important,” said Warren.
Vomitous statement, especially coming from a woman – and a mother. Is this the liberated American woman, willing to murder other mother’s babies for political ends? “Terrorism” is a word thrown about most often by those who would terrorize others. I will not vote for a woman who advocates violence – you hear me Hillary? You want murder and mayhem? Ask a man to do it. We are so much better at it.
Did a quick search of “history of terrorism” and was mildly enlightened when an early reference was 1st century zealots. Hmmm. Eye of the beholder, or in our case owners of the press who decides who is and isn’t.
Well, Warren appears to be a one-trick pony. You ride them for the immediate gratification, not the Journey.
Isn’t it more likely that she feels like going on record as being opposed to Israeli violence would hurt her ability to get elected and do other good things? Have to get elected in order to get things done. I think history shows that elected officials themselves rarely spearhead such domestically controversial efforts such as ending unqualified support for Israel. They might champion others after the tide starts turning and their position might help, but going out on a limb seems to imperil those who might do good in other ways.
Warren??? Well she’s just one like all of the others.
Regardless of partisan affiliation, they are bought or blackmailed into paying allegiance to the god almighty petro-dollar of the Zionist/Nazi International Money Cartel (IMF, World Bank, BIS) and that has been proved repeatedly. However, the American population continues to suppose that the multitude of government lies generated in the form of propaganda and fed by the MSM and many alternative media sites; is somehow representative of a malleable governmental structure like a representative Republic, in which citizens are led to believe that partisan voting will miraculously solve the ills of the tyrannical economic slavery imposed by adherence to that very system dominated by the International Central Bankers. War is profit for them and all those that have a vested interest. Warren is not an exception to the rule of the tyrants….she is just at best a feeble mouthpiece.
“Well, There’s Your Problem Right There … Insider Trading Rules Don’t Apply To Congress”
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/06/well-theres-your-problem-right-there-insider-trading-rules-don%E2%80%99t-apply-to-congress.html
If people are stupid enough to believe that any partisan politician will restore justice and equity back into a constitutionally formed Republic to the detriment of their own bank accounts and real assets….they are sorely mistaken. Any reform or corrective action will have to come from We the People. The critical first step is to dissolve the Federal Reserve in the United States. Then, and only then, can the influence of the international Banking Cartel be removed from our political structure (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial.)
So what hope do true progressives have of ever defeating the NWO?
It starts with Glenn G. responding to my e-mail to him…
Just a couple more quotes for gezzerx…
“A little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical…It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” -Thomas Jefferson
“And what country can preserve its liberties, if the rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.” -Thomas Jefferson
Well said:)
Your last TJ quote was applicable and valid for past centuries. But in the 21st century? It’s knowledge, scientifically verifiable knowledge that applies to all the people on this planet that will win the days ahead.
Your last TJ quote about taking arms to overthrow a corrupt govt won’t work in the 21st century IMO.
However knowledge, scientifically verifiable knowledge that applies to every person on this planet, will.
I Knew Warren’s position on Israel, from the beginning, but I didn’t know what the position of Bernie Sanders was.This is an email I wrote yesterday:
“I believe in all the things that Bernie Sanders believes in.
When I read that the vote in the senate over whether to support Israel,
was 100-0, I just couldn’t believe it.
The Israeli lobby pays for elections and re-elections,
especially if you want to become president.
Kshama Sawant is a socialist, and a woman.
I had #sanders/sawant2016 has my hashtag.
No more.”
I realize Sawant wasn’t born here and has limited hopes of becoming VP/POTUS, but I favor the looser interpretation of the constitution.Both, Bernie and Sawant are socialists.
It’s time we adapt to use of ‘socialist’, not being a dirty-word.
You can’t become a senator unless you sell, at least part of your soul to the devil.
Whether the policy in question is foreign or domestic, she will be in favor killing people. She might have been good as the CFPB, that’s why they had to put her in the Senate.
In my humble opinion, this calls for a wide spread protest vote in the coming election. If people who give a shit (a distinct minority) actually stopped falling for the lesser of two evils and pragmatism argument, perhaps someday there will be something other than a spineless Democrat to vote for.
I will not ever vote from one of these monsters who can glibly dismiss the piles of dead children and even larger piles of dead adults in Gaza.
People have a choice to make.. not the choice between Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum, but the choice between right and wrong…. however non-pragmatic and irritating that might be to the party line robots whose collective conscience has all the morals of a popcorn fart.
Agree.
When Tea Party candidates were elected, they amounted to less than 10% of Congress and look at the effect.
Vote for any candidate who is not an R or D and get them into office. Then you will see the discussion change.
They know this. They don’t want the conversation to change. The Republicans, for better or for worse (of course I think worse), fight the fights that need to be fought in their minds, not necessarily the fights that can be won. They show a certain kind of spine that the Democrats are woefully, sickeningly lacking. You need to fight to expand the conversation as you said….
Best reply so far! First qualification for my vote: Do you oppose genocide in Palestine?
It was always a given that becoming a politician of note in the US was only possible if you supported the ‘special relationship’ with Israel. You’d only need to repeat the shortlist of phrases, like Warren did. Not taking that stance and/ore suggesting it was a questionable one would immediately bring your career to a halt.
There was hardly a career downside to taking that stance, so why not? Until now. By means of this and (some) other articles there will actually be a cost to colluding with the propaganda: it may cost you votes. This is a new development. Thanks mr. Greenwald.
Directly related to this– what do you think of Lawrence Lessig’s Mayday PAC?
Add Bernie Sanders to the list of those who support killing over 2100 in Gaza, and the AIPAC lobby. Shut Up! Write in Vote Snowden, Assange, Manning or other Truth tellers.
Yes indeed, Chuck.
Well before the 2012 election, being completely disgusted with the (Obama) Democratic party, I started a search for an alternative way, to still take part in the voting.
After, thoroughly reading, the complete (Jill Stein) Green Party platform, I became convinced, that they voiced concern for every single progressive tenet that is “dear to my heart.”
I dropped my 57 year “membership” in the Democratic party, and switched to the Green Party. I voted for every GP candidate that was on the ballot.
Well, we all know how that turned out. The national candidates failed dismally.
However, I felt gratified, that I was able to vote for a party, that had a desire to do the “right thing” for the American people.
Until we have “real” election reform, we’ll be stuck with the same old scenarios.
Since Warren and Sanders are not fully acceptable, take a look at the “Greens.”
There is a lot to be said for voting your conscience, not least of which it shows that you have one, unlike many “pragmatists” who would vote for Vlad The Impaler if he were on the Democratic ticket. Not only that, they would most probably castigate you for not following along like a good little sheep.
Most Americans believe they live in a Representative Democracy, so they will be bewildered by the unexpected consequences of its functioning.
Try a thought experiment: Suspend disbelief (belief), and imagine life in a Representative Plutocracy. See how easily the formerly unexpected becomes the expected.
This explains why non-wealthy Americans will have the vote but will not have candidates that represent non-wealthy interests.
Try this thought experiment and see how many more things make sense after this simple relabeling.
The party name, Democratic-Republican, made sense only when it organized opposition to the monarchist Federalist Party. The devolved Democratic and Republican parties, and party names only capitalize on the resulting brand name recognition.
I’m really not trying to toot my own horn just point out what should be clear to everyone. There are no progressives in US politics. After Obama used lofty progressive sounding rhetoric people in the US voted for him – of course it was all a ruse, clearly Obama doesn’t have a progressive bone in his body. Warren is no different – taking up a populist position with the banks she disguises her Neoliberal fundamentals.
I feel that Alan Grayson, has proved himself, over and over, a “true” Progressive.
I certainly could live with him at the “helm.”
What what what what is this?! Praising this: “Many of those domestic views, particularly her strident-for-D.C. opposition to banks, have been admirable” and making negative insinuations about “warmed-over, banal Democratic hawk trip”. Someone needs a review lesson in finding the joy in a child’s laugh. Here, let’s try one together. Elizabeth Warren commentary:
– I think Elizabeth Warren is pretty. Also, I like her glasses, they make her look serious. And her hair, it’s really smooth and frizz-free.
– Elizabeth Warren is a good dog owner. Aaaaaaaw: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/11/30/warren-private-sorrow/uwp3BYslrXDgcMgX7xiwPK/story.html
– She seems nice. Also I like those cardigans she wears with collared shirts, because I can’t pull those off because they make my neck itch but I think they make her look smart and scholarly, which is enhanced by her being from Massachusetts, which seems like a smart and scholarly sort of place to be from.
See? Political commentary is fun and doesn’t have to be all strident.
On a more serious note – on Israel bombing Gaza, the “well they got what they deserved” line of thinking does bother me and I do think that societally, we should be framing that differently. You can’t use that line of thinking if there are hostages in a building, after all, or the police are trying to apprehend a criminal on a crowded street.
Yet, another example of our political process yielding the result of Party over Country.
Glenn, I seem to recall you were supportive of this person. Wouldn’t you now say, Party ideology corrupts?
while you are at it Glenn, WHERE IS THE LIST OF NAMES YOU PROMISED???
Unlikely that any of our Congress members would have the courage to criticize Isrealy policies for fear of being labeled Anti-Semitic. That would be political suicide. When it’s a choice between being elected or doing the right thing Congress has no shame.
Shame the lefties readin g this and other sites identify with Hamas, the terror organization, running
Gaza, and related to The Brotherhood, and funded by Qatar, helped by Turkey, and armed by Iran…
Apartheid? sure. a wall that has stopped suicide bombers but still has as current beauty queen an Ethiopian woman, has every street marked by signs in Arabic, Hebrew, and English…
I note in passing that a lot of what I had thoughnt would be a offbeat site is more nearly just another anti-Israel venue
Not really. Israel committed war crimes. This site distinguishes itself from the MSM by refusing to be an echo chamber for the Israeli Foreign Ministry and AIPAC’s justifications of those war crimes. Warren may be a champion of low rate interest loans for students, but she is conspicuously AWOL when it comes to human rights and civil liberties.
“Shame the lefties readin g this and other sites identify with Hamas…”
Wrong! They identify with people and if you have a shred of human decency you will condemn Israel’s wanton slaughter of civilians in the guise of “self-defense”.
Shame on the PSEUDO-conservatives who claim to follow the “Prince of PEACE” but support the WAR GOD TRIBE.
FEMA-CAMP-GAZA is a PREVIEW for you “PREPPERS/PATRIOTS” …. Ferguson MO. today ………
just WHO is training your police/guards? it is the mindset and brainwashing your police have been received.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/04/report-israeli-model-underlies-militarization-of-u-s-police/
http://libertyfight.com/2014/louisville_purge_cops_trained_in_israel.html
http://salem-news.com/articles/october292013/israel-dhs.php
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/ferguson-companies-supplying.html
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/255432.html
http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/2178
http://www.jeff-goodall.com/?p=8966
http://www.whyileftsweden.com/?p=198
Wake up and smell the coffee …. you are NEXT.
Not all “Preppers/Patriots” are conservative. Most are Independents and anything but conservative. The necessity to assign a partisan affiliation to any individual is part of the lie. The whole partisan game is a lie designed to perpetuate the “divide and conquer” tactic so that all humanity will remain under absolute economic control.
Lyra – look at all those links, eight, posted in one comment. Mind boggling!
Yes, you’re so right. The divide and conquer strategy [D&C – ;)] can only be broken by people willing to respect the other’s right to his view even if we vigorously disagree with it. Pointing fingers and ridiculing doesn’t solve anything. It just cedes more territory over to the real Enemy.
Thanks seer….
Yes…at this time I can’t even get one new comment without links to post at the top of comments section.
Until they get this fixed, I’ve decided to excuse myself from the aggravation of attempting to post.
Take care.
When I play ice hockey I’m left handed. When I play golf I’m right handed. When I fire a rifle I’m left handed. When I write a letter I’m right handed. When I see people getting the fuck bombed out of them I’ve got both my eyes wide open
Shame on you for equating compassion for humanity and moral decency with any political partisan ideology. By the way…all media venues should be objective as opposed to partisan….that is independent and not praying to the petro-dollar. The Intercept is at least trying.
Last time I checked, Hamas was created as a product of Israel funding the Muslim Brotherhood. Hezbollah was created when Israel invaded Lebanon. Under international law the areas of Gaza, East Jerusalem, and West Bank are under the effective control/occupation of Israel and are all regarded as illegal. Hamas has the right under international law to resist. Its not just the wall that demonstrates apartheid, its the de facto segregation by law. If people in South Africa used violence against white settlers would that prove its not an apartheid? The white colonialists are just defending themselves? Suicide bombings didn’t begin until the late 80s. Occupation of their land existed since 67. A near 2 decade conflict with peaceful protests brutally suppressed, ignored by mainstream Israelis. ‘Suddenly’ you have one or two suicide bombers and everyone doesn’t have a clue.
Certainly I can walk down a street in Tel Aviv and see several languages posted there, how does that disprove apartheid? I could say the youngest doctor in the world comes from Gaza, doesn’t prove there is not a humanitarian crisis there. I could say Jesse Owens was ‘allowed’ to compete in the Olympics, doesn’t prove that black people had equal rights in the States.
So she finally speaks up. is anyone surprised at her position? We need fewer Israeli stooges.
I had to snicker when Warren used Israel and “rule of law” in the same sentence. Selective application of rights, enforcement of court judgements, political corruption, etc. If I am being asked to sacrifice treasure and absorb the externalities generated by the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, I expect Israel to be whiter than white. And it’s not.
Another spineless, unprincipled American politician. As noted by Rashid Khalidi in his book “Brokers of Deceit,” the U.S. has become part of the Israeli colonization process. The settlements are being financed by American Jewish tax-deductible donations along with the constant movement from the United States to Israel of religious nationalist colonists, many of them aggressive and fanatical, to live in the settlements/colonies. The settlement enterprise is embedded and intertwined with American society and the American political system. The contrast between this close identification with Israel and the disdain with which American lawmakers, policymakers, and the media generally regard the Palestinians could not be more stark.
That is the truth.
Warren: “America has a very special relationship with Israel. Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world…”
We might better spend our energies suggesting that they move. There are many other places where they would be safer and less dependent on our money and political kow-towing.
Well we’re fucked
I never really ever placed any ultimate faith in Warren, and yes she got a lot of mileage from her ‘being from the simple folk, from Oklahoma’ stuff. That brought you to the audience of her. But she always resembled a whippet to me, and looks like she just might turn 180 on a dime in a split second. Plus her particular type of nervous system looks as if it could burn-out fairly soon. I would really love her if I felt she was sincere…but don’t feel that, presently.
She’s just plain ignorant (and proud of it apparently) re: foreign policy. She knows nothing other than the pure propaganda that she’s been fed. She really needs to educate herself.
And speaking of the tragic death of children, I found it mind-boggling to hear Netanyahu so vehemently condemning Hamas for the death of the 1 Israeli child that has occurred as a result of the latest fighting. Not that the death of that child isn’t tragic, but to ignore the hundreds of children murdered by the Israelis, is just evil.
Just another example of the strangle hold AIPAC has on Washington and the American political system in general.
The fear that exists for any politician who simply dares to speak against Israeli policies risks being targeted and ruined by disproportionate power wielded by AIPAC is overwhelming. So much for ‘democracy’ and freedom of expression. Speaking against Israeli policy is draws the immediate label of ‘anti-Semite’ from a media almost totally controlled by pro-Israel elements.
U.S. funding of Israel’s destruction of Gaza and the Iron Dome is criminal. What kind of control must the AIPAC and its tentacles exert over Congress? It is time for U.S. Middle East foreign policy to be totally revamped to reflect the current metrics of the region.
Continued unconditional support of the most disruptive element in the region may be our biggest impediment to peace. Nothing can justify our advocacy of thedisproportionate destruction and killing we witnessed in Gaza the past months – nothing.
Wow you guys are truly nuts. Real Liberals support Israel, fcucked. You’re no liberal or “progressive” Doesn’t mean you can’t criticize (duh) but going whole hog into Pro Hamas advocacy is evil as fcuk.
Netanyahu’s (any Israeli PM) has a Ius primae noctis on all newcomer to American politics… so disappointing… Hillary or Elizabeth… still catering to the donkey.
For those interested, I recently reported on a similar confrontation between Minnesota activists and Senator Al Franken, and I asked him a couple questions as well. Unsurprisingly, his rhetoric was indistinguishable from that of Senator Warren or Netanyahu.
http://muftah.org/senator-al-franken-phones-palestine-activists-st-paul/
It sounds like Franken is now a candidate for his own book: Lies: And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.
Take a good look at his face. It’s the face of a clown. I dumped him off my email a while ago…every email…he was always asking for money for this and that, and if his spy network was any good at their job in the 1st place, they would know just how much money I don’t have. No, I don’t take him seriously. He’s just a clown, e pluribus unum.
“My Zinger’s been Zapped!!” -the original snoop-dog
The power of AIPAC continues to harm U.S. Politics….
The US “government” is bought and paid for. I have no use for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren after their criminal decision to vote with the rest of the criminal Senate to aid and abet the aggressor of Israeli “government”. The U. S. “government” has the death of countless little children (not to mention thousands of innocent adults) on its hands, not just, of course, with regard to this current massacre. If you want some background on this current murder in cold blood debacle read “Against Our Better Judgment.” and check out the author on Youtube, Alison Weir.
Alison Weir has done excellent historical work in this area. So has Ilan Pappé. Most recent suporting article submitted as follows:
“The Historical Perspective of the 2014 Gaza Massacre”
http://www.pipr.co.uk/all/the-historical-perspective-of-the-2014-gaza-massacre/
Here’s the problem with Elizabeth Warren and so many other Democrats and progressives (including Bernie Sanders) when it comes to supporting Israel.
Maybe Warren actually believes that Israel’s tactics are justified. I would find that disappointing because a more balanced approach would be to say that Israel certainly as a right to defend itself, but that the bombing of civilian sites like apartment buildings, hospitals, etc. is not justified.
However one thing I am certain Warren knows is that there is not a single Republican member of the Senate or House who could be counted upon to come forward and speak out against anything Nentayahu and the Likud do. There are no more Pete McCloskey’s or Paul Findley’s in the Republican Party. The Republican Party here and the Likud party in Israel are essentially the same when it comes to Israel. There is no such thing as an innocent Palestinian in their mind and clearly, an Israeli life is worth far more to them than a Palestinian life.
The bottom line though, is totally pragmatic. No Profiles in Courage here. Just an awareness that a few million dollars from Sheldon Adelson’s “Israel is Always Right” war chest and Warren may not only be out of the Senate, but incapable of finding a university teaching job outside being an adjunct professor at one of those on-line degree mills. I suspect every Dem in Washing – including those who might actually want a more balanced approach – feels the threat.
Listen if a hospital is taken over by terrorists (as happened in Al Wafa hospital and Shifa hospital basement) or a school or a mosque it is no loner a civilian target according to international law or common sense.
Warren is correct.
But those labelled as terrorists are actually freedom fighters. You might wish to call Washington’s Continental Army an unruly band of terrorists. Because the fact is Britain and King George was like to the new Americans of the Thirteen Colonies as Zionist Israel is to the Palestinians – an illegitimate occupying force that requires of the local residents they take up the fight for freedom.
The US Congress has no isle and only one absolutely corrupt political party, the War Party.
Here’s a key to the company store’s front door. Find ways to end petroleum consumption for both durable goods (plastics / synthetic textiles) and transportation (gasoline / diesel / jp4), and the empire will crumble…
When there’s no profit in petroleum based energy
“The US Congress has no isle and only one absolutely corrupt political party, the War Party.”
Exactly.
“That, ladies and gentlemen, is your inspiring left-wing icon of the Democratic Party.”
Elizabeth Warren is focused almost exclusively on domestic economic policy, and that is why I, at least, voted for her and support her. And, I think she has done a great job of fighting for the issues she campaigned on. I can only speak for myself, but I never expected her to share every single belief I had on every single subject. I only expected her to fight for the things she campaigned on–domestic economic policy. Yeah, if you expect somebody to embody the platonic ideal of a “Left Wing Icon,” you are going to be disappointed no matter what. Especially if that person never presented themselves as such. I would be totally on board with pressuring her to change her views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, but criticizing someone for not being the hero they never claimed to be is kind of silly.
That’s not a luxury she has as a Senator or a national political figure. You may want to wish to pretend it’s not happening, but she’s affirmatively voting to give money to Israel, sanction Iran, and defending the attack on Gaza. It’s fine to say that you’re still happy with some of her domestic positions – I said the same thing – but to pretend that she’s not doing these other things is completely irrational. She is.
Concern over her other views is especially necessary if you hope she runs for president.
As I demonstrated in this very article, she campaigned on more than domestic issues. She also took a variety issues on foreign policy and national security – mostly bad ones.
Nobody said anything about wanting her or anyone else to share every view. But to stand up and applaud and vehemently defend an Israeli attack that is brutal, savage and criminal is much more than disagreement on a single issue. And the fact that it’s not the first time she’s taken a hawkish position makes it all the more troubling.
To do that at the very least requires, first, knowing those views and, secondly, objecting to them – in other words, exactly what I did here.
Well, certainly she is responsible for the consequences of each vote she takes. And certainly she should be taken to task for bad votes–just like any other senator. What I am objecting to is the idea that she is failing as the Ideal Progressive, both in terms of domestic and foreign policy, as this seems to be a role others have projected onto her, rather than one she sought for herself. I voted for her, and support her, to advance her domestic economic agenda with the expectation that senators generally specialize, and this is when they are most effective. She really isn’t all that influential in the country’s foreign policy, and I never expected her to be. If she ran for president, which is unlikely, then sure I would put more weight on her foreign policy views. Why single out Warren for failing to meet expectations she didn’t create?
If and when you are forced or choose to “put more weight on her foreign policy views,” are you going to call her a liar for the views that she has expressed all along, or are you going to say that she was ignorant with the views that she has expressed all along? Or, if she changes those views dramatically, are you going to accuse her of pandering, or are you going to consider that she might have come to those view changes by finally doing the least bit of research? If you think she was lying before, are you going to believe she is being honest with her new set of views, and if so, are you going to believe that as a senator she will vote accordingly, or as a president that she will push those new views with diligence?
Well, if she ran for president and her views changed dramatically, i would certainly take that into consideration, as well as the path she took to get there. If her views changed as a senator and i’d agreed with her position, i would be happy she had a change of heart, but there wouldn’t be much i could do beyond that as i no longer live in Massachusetts and i wouldn’t be able to vote for or against her anyway.
Thanks for responding so eloquently.
I think you also have a responsibility to clearly state to your readers that the situation in Gaza was not that way when Israel left in 2005. There was no blockade, and there was no bombing. Something happened between 2005 and 2007 that explains why Israel has unleashed its devastating war machine. Many politicians support Israel for financial reasons, but there are many others who believe that Hamas is also responsible for the death of so many civilians by following a violent doctrine and continuously targeting a more powerful and destructive military. Maybe senator Warren views the situation in that angle. You consistently disregard the complications involved in US policy in the Middle East. The result is a clear failure of many of your readers to consider the ultimate responsibility of Hamas to insure that the civilian population is not subject to such violence.
Well Steve, you don’t get it do you?
The ‘special relationship’ Warren claims we have with Israel is based entirely on US I First donors to the Dems and their party.
So ask yourself—-if a person will take a dive for political money—–money in exchange for Palestine lives, blood and land—-then what else will she take a dive on?
You think people that craven and immoral wont do the same thing to you?
So how many ‘other people’ are you willing to see slaughtered for your pet domestic issues?
And if you don’t care about that maybe you should look at the ‘big picture’ and figure out how US FP can, does and will affect those domestic issues.
Last time I looked 13 US cities were an inch from bankruptcy and Detroit is a ghost town and US War on Terriers vets are homeless and committing suicide every day—-while congress plays Master of the Universe and spends taxpayers money on wars and Israel.
How does this make sense???? It has an “Invasion of the body snatchers” kind of quality to it. You go looking for humanity and get a cold shriek.
More proof that there are no true progressives in the American government. None.
You are totally wrong. What about Paul Wellstone?
Oh wait……
Exactly! The honest are expendable. The private army of the Elite take care of business for its bosses, no questions asked.
I sare to say that there hardly any real progressives in the population, let alone government.
If Ms. Warren is this big a coward regarding Israel/Palestine I find if hard to believe she’ll stand up for the ‘average Joe’ against Wall Street as she’s often portrayed. The two go hand in hand. She’s just as phony as Obama.
Ban by the military to access this site is a badge of honor for The Intercept
It seems like so long ago that my main news sources were the NY Times and WA PO
The Intercept Author Ryan on twitter
Ryan Gallagher @rj_gallagher · 20h
Gotta love that we’re now being described as “The Intercept, the news website recently banned by the military.” http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/27/nsa_creates_google_like_search_engine …
It’s a shame. I’ve had a strong admiration for Warren and her strong positions on U.S. corporate/government accountability. However, her opinions and support for the Zionist regime ideology contradict what I considered her strength to critically analyze the main issues in a number of situations, in lieu of the biased, parroted rhetoric typical of the cookie-cutter Israeli supporter, where the State can never doing wrong in certain politicians’ eyes. It’s a mentality you would not expect from educated people in this era. It seems some politicians, even the progressive “heroic” are not what they appear and think more highly of one type of certain human beings than others–a behavior I had assumed was oposite to their beliefs and actions.
I am gutted.
As the only “exciting” alternative to Clinton, Warren was sounding like a genuine reformer. Now she looks like a standard US politician, destined to pull to the skewed center domestically, and have a foreign policy in total continuity with the last decade.
I was hoping her literal runaway from Gaza was merely a cowardly avoidance so her true opinion wouldn’t prematurely end her campaign. Now I would guess she just wants to be in charge of the system, as-is.
A Clinton/Warren fight will be a grab for a steering wheel in a car that’s on a guided track.
Like steering wheels on the boats in the tunnel of love.
She’s now drinking the D.C. kool-aid. Too bad, it never bodes well to trade integrity for power.
As pointed out in the article, she has been stating that same line about Israel policy all along.
You lose me there. I do not like the criminal Zionist government and am alarmed that we support them so vociferously, to our own ultimate detriment. Netanyahu is an evil man and needs to be arrested for war crames and crimes against humanity. And no matter how you look at it…that’s what it is, and there is a large growing consensus on that. So much so, that he is now trying to appear somewhat contrite…it doesn’t work on me, I know a liar now when I see one, after the last 15 years of lies and infamy in this country. Netanyahu is now running a bit scared these days. Look for him to soon throw himself on the mercy of anyone who will listen. Sorry, the guy is pure evil. Plus he is one of the worse things that ever happened to the people of Israel…and oh boy, Gaza. This man is a total disaster, not to mention a serial killer.
I have no idea why you addressed the comment that you made in reply to my previous comment. It makes no sense in relation to what I wrote.
I don’t know…senior moment?
Good luck finding any representative that would speak out against their Zionist masters. Stop and think for a minute about how the system works. We give Israel vast sums of money, in return Israel spends vast amounts of money lobbying our government. Of course our slimy politicians do not want to give up all that money that goes to their re-election and those free trips to Israel now do they. Two things need to happen. Lobbying is legalized bribery and needs to end. In addition no member of congress should be allowed to hold duel citizenship. This should be a no brainer. Do you think the forefathers would have allowed someone to rise in power if they were still stating their allegiance to another country? Look at Furgeson to see what the Israeli effect has on our police that have been sent there for training. Do not be surprised to find yourselves treated as the Palestinians are in the near future. Those who would not defend the Palestinians at this point should sit down and review the words… First they came for….
Actually, the money we give them is spent on buying US manufactured weapons, not lobbying.
Absolutely correct. We send them money to buy weapons made in the US and that creates jobs here.
Then, they spend the money from their general fund which would have been used to buy those weapons, to lobby and that creates deaths in Gaza.
Sounds like she’s been drinking the D.C. kool-aid. I really cannot find it in myself to trust her anymore, at this time. For me, she now bears watching, and her words, from now on, must be measured. She seems to be “trading up” now for electorial power. Too bad, It never bodes well to cavalierly trade integrity for expedient status.
Sadly, I agree. Until this article, I was unaware of Warren’s Israel position. I am beyond sick of the U.S. being a subsidiary of Israel and the Big 6 Wall Street banks. And sick of the vague platitudes about our “interests” in the Mid East–can’t we at least just say the words “oil” and “finance’?
Same here. No progressive can support a nazi regime, regardless of whether it’s German, Israeli, South African, or (now) Ukrainian, or in any country. Because no progressive can support a nazi Amerika.
Exactly!
I agree fully with Mona, and would go even a bit farther. I had placed such hopes on Ms Warren, but it will be impossible to vote for her now. I think that Ms Warren does not understand that she is alienating the very heart of her core constituency for base political reasons. She either has moral principles or she doesn’t. One cannot, must not, prostitute oneself to win election.
In fact I can’t see any difference between her position and that of Hillary Clinton’s. If Ms Warren sells herself to win election, then she can go “roll with the hogs” along with Hillary. I am disappointed, greatly, but I think she is completely welded to this neo-con vulgarity.
The following excerpts from responses could just as easily be lifted from a neo-Nazi web site (though the fascists would substitute “communist” for “Nazi”). Just goes to show you that left and right wing extremists have one hatred in common.
Zionist/Nazi International Money Cartel.
The leader of the Zetas drug cartel, was trained by the IDF.
I prefer “Lebensraum” myself.
Nazioniosts
Rothschild Zionist Globalist Nazi.
influence of the international Banking Cartel
the Jewish Zionist media
ISRAELI CITIZENS HOLD KEY US GOV’T POSITIONS
Zionist masters
It is a shame that US liberals accept the Arab narrative even though, if one would bother to actually understand our history, one would see that it is complicated but that the aggressors are the Arabs and not the Israelis. We have offered peace on many occasions to b met with terrorism and rockets. I believe the Jewish people have the right to one country of their own. After all, the Arabs already have 22.
Alison, are you really that fucking dumb? Let me break it down for you: The Jews stole the land, the Palestinians want it back. The Jews made a deliberate choice to invade, steal, and push out the native population at gunpoint. Everything since stems from this basic premise. Anyone denying these facts is no better than a Holocaust denier.
Who invaded who.
Western powers invading a sovereign, Palestine. No ‘people’ have a right to one country of their own.
What we all have is a responsibility to live in peace, adding value to society by virtual of what a woman produces.
End of story.
Alison, the I/P situation is not so “complicated” that one can not understand that it is the Zionists who are the aggressors. Zionists have been stealing Palestinian land, razing and ethnically cleansing their cities and states, for many decades now. And the refugees are shunted by Israel into open air prisons, resulting in what has long been a de facto, 1-state, Israeli apartheid state.
Israel is the oppressor; the Palestinians the oppressed.
Concur -Mona-.
BTW….Can you post a new comment using the “Add Comment” button above?
The “Add Comment” button doesn’t work for me at the moment. And when I posted a reply to someone further down the thread (I assume, since I’m not even sure anymore in what direction the thread goes…) I got unceremoniously dumped into the nether regions or, at least, not back to the comment I was replying to. Very disorienting. :-s
Also, too, it would be nice if someone from TI – paging John Cook! John Cook please pick up the courtesy telephone! – would explain the parameters involved in this new statement:
I presume that most folks would like to avoid moderation if possible, but it is very difficult to do so if one doesn’t know what will get one moderated in the first place. Many of us who lived through the Graun Moderator Wars would prefer not to repeat that if possible. And even the Graun had their policy posted, even if they rarely used it for anything other than vague justifications for Bella Mackey’s personal vendettas. :-s
Thankyou Pedinska.
I have sent an email reporting this problem to micah.lee@theintercept.com.
Started test thread for further troubleshooting.
I’ve emailed Glenn and basically said: “You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.” Holding comments in pre-mod is an awful idea (at least after 1st one per acct), and I hope they were simply trying to explain that the system sometimes does it for whatever reason.
@ -Mona-
Thankyou for the email to Mr. Greenwald.
Have not received any response yet from TI IT to acknowledge the reported problem.
Have sent another message to johncook@the intercept.com.
I’m done now.
“Add comment” not working for me, either. I suppose at some point, if no one can add comment, then there’s nothing to reply to.
“Leave a Reply Cancel reply
Thanks for your comment. Please be aware that many comments are held for moderation; your comment might not appear immediately.”
Are held for moderation. By whom? And what, pray, is moderation? Meantime, we return you to our live feed from the Greenwald farm at Grover’s Mill, New Jersey.
“I’ve emailed Glenn and basically said: “You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.”
Thank you. Hopefully a more definitive explanation is forthcoming.
Glenn indicates the “system” is doing this, and that it is being worked on. It does not appear to be a policy that comments are all pre-moderated.
“Glenn indicates the “system” is doing this, and that it is being worked on. It does not appear to be a policy that comments are all pre-moderated.”
The “system” is doing what it is told to do! Spam filter policies govern this type of message.
Testing Add Comment Block
Does anyone besides me see the following comment to be last comment posted at the top of the comments on this article?
Velia
28 Aug 2014 at 9:21 am
I have been informed by IT that other comments are being posted on top of this one, which are not visible to me.
@Wilhelmina – “Spam filter policies govern this type of message.”
Unfortunately, internet security and protecting both what arrives at and is sent from your server isn’t quite that simple, and spam-filters are only part of the equation. Here is a good site to explore the many other reasons for this – search the net and there are plenty of others to help understand the complexity – which is particularly true for a website like The Intercept, which has been specifically targeted by the NSA because of what it reports on.
http://securityskeptic.typepad.com/the-security-skeptic/
Mona…that old meme…Zionists *stealing* Palestinian land, etc.. is simply NOT true. Have you been to israel, Syria, West Bank, Jordan or any other country in the region? I’ve been to all of those I just mentioned. If you go to Jordan….visit Madaba and you will have shopkeepers in Madaba bearing a different witness to what you claim. They will tell you that palestinian Arabs for DECADES prior to 1947 sold their vast tracts of *useless* land and moved to Jordan or other areas of the region waing their wads of cash saying how they were rich and sold their worthless land to the stupid Jews!. Let’s fast forward to 1967 and later, when Israel BEGGED the arab countries time and time again….We’ll give you the land back if you just make peace with us and recognize our right to exist! Fast forward to late 1990’s when Israel proposed to give the PA 95-98% of what is the West Bank and Gaza to a Palestinian state. Some land grab! (PA turned that down and began their intifasdeh of homicide bombings. Now let’s fast forward again…to 2007 when Israel withdrew all forces from Gaza, abandoned (sometimes forcibly) Jewish settlements and a BILLION dollar export industry of cut flowers…INTACT for the Palestinians in Gaza to build upon. BEFORE Israel had even completely withdrawn the missiles were flying into Israel from Gaza. Those EVIL Israelis giving up Gaza! how DARE they!! This good faith gesture was spurned by Gazans. While I have absolutely no doubt there could be peace between the Palestinian Arabs and Israel, it can’t happen when the Palestinians want ONLY to destroyt Israel and refuse all peace gestures. your claims of Israel stealing palestinian land just don’t hold water. However, after nearly 50 YEARS waiting for a realistic and reasonable peace PARTNER in Palestinian leadership time is clearly running out. Israel doesn’t want the vast majority of the West Bank and doesn’t want Gaza at all. But at the same time, Israel can’t trust anything from the Palestinians since every single agreement they have reached has been broken by the Palestinians.
Typical prog dribble
There is not now, nor has there ever been a “Palestinian” ethnic group. “Palestine” is the name used by the Romans to refer to the land that was inhabited by the Jews. After Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, the Jewish people were forcibly dispersed through out the world for over 1900 years but the land called “Palestine” has been the Jewish homeland for 3400 years. There were always Jews living in the land up until the present times, however in 1948, an Egyptian terrorist named Yasser Arafat claimed the land as belonging to the Palestinians and formed a terrorist group called the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) to give his claims on the land legitimacy. Jews and Arabs have lived in the land, side by side, since ancient times but after Israel became a nation in 1948, she was suddenly attacked by several Arab Muslim countries in an attempt to wipe them out. The severely out numbered Israelis were able to repel the attack but have been fighting for their own survival against almost unbeatable odds ever since. The Temple Mount was the site of The first Jewish Temple built by King Solomon was destroyed by Assyria and later rebuilt by King Herod. After the Romans destroyed Herod’d Temple in 70 AD and dispersed the Jews out of the land, the Arabs moved in and much later built the “Dome of the Rock” Mosque that sits there now. The Temple Mount is the Holiest place in the world for the Jewish people but it is only seen as a tourist attraction for Muslims. Of all the people in history who have a claim over the land, it is not the Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians” but the Jews who have the most legal and historical claim.
And even 60 Minutes and people like Anthony Bourdain have tried to humanize the Palestinians against all attempts to reduce them to sub-human status. At the heart of the problem it seems to me is a concept of supremacy from which Israel suffers, along with religious delusions. The US is also infected with this form of thinking, at the top levels. Such attitudes end in tears. “Pride goeth before a fall.”
At the heart of the problem is blindness to murder and cruelty. “They are at war with us but we are not at war with them.” Maybe peace between Israel and the Palestinian people would be attained if Hamas did not feel it necessary to start a shooting war. Hamas commits atrocities to provoke a response from Israel and then cries foul. Over and over in a never ending cycle.
Mona, please explain how Palestinians manage to live as Israeli citizens and have elected representatives in the government. This fact shows there are alternatives to Hamas rocket and tunnel terrorism.
Please cite examples were Israel has attacked Gaza without provocation to substantiate your claim that Israel is always the aggressor.
They don’t live as Israeli citizens. They are second class citizens subject to arrest and imprisonment without charges if they so much express empathy for the victims of Israeli aggression, victims who may be members of their own families.
The land of the Palestinians was brutally stolen from them by Zionist Jews fleeing European, and specifically Nazi, antisemitism. But the ways in which they established Israel in stolen land by terrorism and murder remains hidden from the propaganda Zionists of races and religions feed upon and disseminate to support their unsupportable claims.
Here, a taste of truth for you, Ze Cuiabano –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMOtFy09ZmI&feature=youtu.be
And to assist you in your search for truth, a link to the entire film Occupation 101 – Zionism – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwpvI8rX72o
They don’t live as Israeli citizens. They are second class citizens subject to arrest and imprisonment without charges if they so much express empathy for the victims of Israeli aggression, victims who may be members of their own families.
The land of the Palestinians was brutally stolen from them by Zionist Jews fleeing European, and specifically Nazi, antisemitism. But the ways in which they established Israel in stolen land by terrorism and murder remains hidden from the propaganda Zionists of races and religions feed upon and disseminate to support their unsupportable claims.
Here, a taste of truth for you, Ze Cuiabano –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMOtFy09ZmI&feature=youtu.be
Israel initiated the aggression by land theft and ethnic cleansing, and continues it every minute of the day by imposing the siege and allowing settlements. I’ll let Moshe Dayan explain it for you, quoting what he said in a eulogy for an Israeli soldier killed by a Gazan in 1956:
Just like the USA, Israel is not a functioning democracy. It is a totalitarian state. Palestinians are all terrorists, and empathy is the terrorist’s primary emotional condition.
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-arrests-almost-600-palestinians-august-ngo-113939069.html
@Ze Cuiabano – If you’re talking about Arab Israelis they may be ethnically Palestinian, but they aren’t nationally so. Palestinians born in the occupied territories are not citizens, and their only government representatives are in the pretend government that is the Palestinian Authority which does not even control it’s own taxes and roads.
Israel is by far far the most powerful of the two, with nuclear weapons at its disposal, with the US arsenal at its disposal, with US politicians at its disposal. Israel can wipe out Gaza at any time, and it has not done yet because it would be in bad taste at this time. And all this conflict I/P is because the US has oil interests in the middle east, and must ally itself with the most repressive regimes in the world. So, Israel is the only democracy in the area? Kiss my shorts! Are we so keen about democracy that in order to protect our interests we also ally with Saudi Arabia? Where is the democracy there? The Saudis came for 9/11 and we still cherished them because it means stable markets for US oil interests, not democracy. Israel means apartheid South African style, a ‘democracy’ that treats human beings like third class citizens just because thy are brownish or Arab looking is not a democracy it is a sham.
Meanwhile politicians in the US congress vote against any efforts to clean up our energy portfolios by investing in better ways to extract energy from the considerable reserves of geothermal, solar and wind we have in the is country. With the mirage of tracking the production is going up but within 5 years those wells will begin to run out and the production rates to plummet. Mark my words. Then we’ll be back to square one. The middle east is the US’s main energy resource with which to keep its fraudulent political and economic system.
By the way, I am sick of hearing the phrase “Israel has the right to defend itself’. Sure and so have the Palestinians. But look at the asymmetry of it all. Israel is a military superpower, the largest US military base abroad, some call it. So what existential danger is Israel exposed to? The Palestinians? You got to be kidding! The Palestinians instead are continuously subject to the oppression of apartheid and being treated like rats, pretty much and ironic, like the Jews were treated just before the Holocaust.
Yeah,they just stole another 1000 acres.What a bunch of evil,scumbag criminals.When they come to steal your home(Of course,being Jewish,they won’t)will you bend over like you wish the Palestinians would?
ARE HAMAS ROCKET ATTACKS ILLEGAL? by Norman Finkelstein
Isn’t it complicated due to the fact that both parties refuse to admit there is no military solution for the conflict?
The possession of “nuclear weapons” does not give Israel right to terrorize anyone. Besides, there are many lands that possess nuclear weapons, and it would take only one of them to flatten Israel. “Iron Dome” crapola is just that.
The Israelis obviously believe their is a military solution to this conflict;Why else would they do it constantly?
About you? Do you believe there is a military solution for that conflict?
It’s complicated due to the fact that there is no unified Palestinian leadership, so rogue groups can do destabilizing things like lobbing rockets into Israel hoping to provoke a reaction; and it’s complicated due to the fact that Israel refuses to recognize that there is no unified Palestinian leadership, so when rogue groups do destabilizing things like lobbing rockets into Israel they attribute that to official Palestinian policy and they react militarily.
@liberalrob.
The “destabilizing” factors are Israel’s illegal occupation and apartheid policies, not the Palestinian’s resistance to it.
Sad how some believe an inconvenient truth not sure if its ignorance or cowardice, probably both? Not sure why anyone living in these 22 Arab countries would want another oppressive state. Do you just need someone to blame or someone to hate. A little of both? 22 Arab states have more than enough to resources to help but they cant even share with each other fairly
“steal Palestinian land”
this is so tiresome.
Never has been, never will be “Palestine”.
Israel land was under Turkish regime till 1922.
From 1922-1947 it was under UK rule.
In 1948 the state of Israel was declared inside the boundaries of UN resolution 181.
That resolution offered a state for the Arabs in Israel.
The countries bordering Israel at the time along with Iraq and the majority of the Arab population in Israel waged war on Israel, lost and Israel gained more land (occupied by those countries).
In the following years, Israel gained more land through wars which were forced upon her.
In 1967, Gaza was occupied from Egypt (it was RULED by EGYPT).
In 1978, as part of the peace treaty, the Egyptian government was offered to take Gaza back and they refused !
Read a history book please.
I don’t care who, just make sure its no politics. Plain history.
Judea and Sumeria were conquered during a war with Jordan. Jerusalem as well.
The Golan Height were conquered from Syria.
There has never been a land called Palestine.
If land conquered through war is considered theft, then US and all of Europe are the greatest thieves in the entire world.
You are just being pure Anti-Israeli without any clue what it means to defend your own home.
Alison, please explain how and or why “the Jewish people have the right to one country of their own.”
Consider what rights are; who and how they are realized. Consider what a country is; is this something that there can be a right to? Can rights be for a collective, an individual, or both?
My opinion is that individuals have rights to property and freedom. Property starts with oneself and consists of that individuals life. Freedom consists of an individual doing as one pleases as long as ones actions do not harm others.
Lines drawn in the sand by the force of empires seems contrary to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. I may be wrong but it seems to me that what complicates the Israel Gaza (and other Arab nations) situation is not the complexity but the history. The accuracy of documentation and memories is suspect even for the present let alone thousands of years.
‘If one would bother to understand our history…”, or “If only you would accept what we tell you without question”.
I hope that the moderating on this site is not going to become ridiculously capricious. If so, it will simply degenerate into: “Yeah! I agree!”, “Yeah! What ____ said!”. Mindless pablum.
Let US deal with the mindless trolls like Craig Summers, OK?
@ Nete Peedham
Actually, he is one of the more clever trolls that frequent the comment sections of TI.
He has the techniques down-pat and even has complementary assistance lined-up…which would indicate a state player.
See: “The Secret Playbook of Internet Trolls”
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/trolls-whats-confusing-nature-game.html
Take care now.
I think you’re giving him too much credit Lyra. Summers has been commenting in Greenwald threads for a long time. His MO is basically older middle-aged, white, entitled authoritarian disgruntled that anyone would dare question what’s worked for him all his life.
I’m interested in what you think constitutes “complementary assistance”.
Might be a while before I can get back to this. Hubby’s loading up the kayaks for a late afternoon paddle on the reservoir.
@ Lyra1 – here is a fascinating article about one hasbara troll who kind of lost his mind. He’s a Jewish guy who created all these different antisemitic alter egos to blast away at Israel and Jewish people in general, and then created other alter egos… to have arguments with himself. It’s like he has online multiple personality syndrome. And then he got caught. Just amazing reading here.
http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs
Yeah, as one of the only Israeli-centric voices in these comment threads, Craig serves an important function. Otherwise everyone would just be preaching to the choir. Plus, unlike most hasbara trolls, he obviously has a few IQ points to rub together, which makes it better. Of course his real name isn’t Craig Summers. I mean, what would someone with such a goyisha name be doing regularly quoting from Algemeiner? If his real name is Craig Summers, then my real name is Dabney Leibowitz.
@ Dabney & Pedinska:
Your article Dabney, as well as the one linked in the article I posted, pointed out how easy it is for trolls to set-up “complementary assistance” for themselves in forums such as this.
Thanks.
He is also consistently contentious regarding almost any topic and does not ever produce any evidence for his “expert” opinions which he issues like decrees. Yet he argues at length with people that do produce evidence for their opinions by attempting to either degrade them or by invalidating their source publication reference….as though he alone has been granted the sole proprietary right to think for everyone else. This activity is designed to control the forum and he does not confine it to discussions regarding Zionism which makes me believe that he is a state player.
Even legitimate people with legitimate comments should not use their real names in any forums. Although one can always be traced and tracked electronically by the National Intelligence Directorate and Internet Technology specialists, it is rather like proclaiming oneself to be the donkey in a game of “Pin the Tail on the Donkey.” You will be targeted by every nutcase online.
Sorry to address both of you in the same comment, but I can not see any new comment postings on any article since the site changed,and I am being reassured by an IT representative of Firstlook that I am able to post new comments which are visible to everyone else. I have tried to trouble shoot on my end with two different OS’s and 4 different browsers. Go figure that one huh? Frankly…I am disgusted with the TI comments section at this time and have decided that it is better to refrain from commenting here at all. This for my own sanity.
Be careful people and take good care.
He is also consistently contentious regarding almost any topic and does not ever produce any evidence for his “expert” opinions which he issues like decrees.
The above is why I rarely engage with him. His “success”, such as it is, revolves entirely around the number of people who continue to engage with him irrespective of his failure to ever produce proof of his assertions and the continuous monotony of his assertions.
As for the comment section issues, I also do not see any new comments posting above. Only replies seem to be showing. I’ve tried to post several times and been unsuccessful, so whatever the issue is, it’s not just you Lyra.
Also, I have to refresh the page to see my replies, but that has been an off-and-on phenomenon all along.
Thanks for the reply Pedinska.
I’m finished commenting on this particular article…as all of the ones posted prior to the website change. There appears to be some incompatibility with the comments command code between web site formats. All of the articles posted prior to the site change fail to sequence comments properly except in reply and are stuck in an endless scroll loop. Aggravating to say the least.
That is utter nonsense Alison. The Zionists stole the land initially and continue to do so. Their militarism is overwhelming and it is on our shoulders. It their human rights violations and crimes against humanity are monumental. It is the Palestinians in occupied Gaza and on other Palestinian lands, who are defending themselves. Israel is a rouge and outlaw nation.
Sanity
Amen!
No worries Alison. Israel will stand when the Arabs shall fall. Those that come against Israel come against God. They point their fingers and laugh but all we need to do is pray. Jesus Christ the Lord our God is in charge and always has been. Every one can get upset and fight to justify themselves and their sin. We all do. We all imperfect. There difference is salvation. I pray for the Arabs. I do not hate them. They are lost in lies. We honor Israel because it is just and right. You can disagree but you are wrong. The world is black and white. Things are that simple. Thing is leave it to God to figure out. Our job is to love and worship. I am given rage and anger over the ignorant but it is wasted energy. God is in control.
Obviously Alison has never been taught the true history of Israel’s founding and the terrorism with which it stole the land from its owners and occupants, massacring families, villages, and doing so with sadistic cruelty worthy of the Nazis themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMOtFy09ZmI&feature=youtu.be
Actually, Jews bought much of the land from Arabs who were only too happy to sell it at high prices. The violence was on both sides, and there is unquestionably enough blame for immoral behavior to go around. The offer of 2 states was in the deal in 1947, rejected then and several times afterward by Arabs who hoped to destroy the Jewish state. Some Arabs were evicted. As many Jews were evicted from their homes in Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia etc. Evicted Jews went to work building a country. Evicted Arabs were thrown into refugee camps. Leadership, and corruption, is the difference between the current economic state of Israel and its Arab neighbors. Palestinian Arabs have had abysmal leadership always.
And apparently, Elizabeth Warren also has a deficit of knowledge on the subject.
avelna2001, I suspect far worse than Warren’s problem is a deficit in knowledge. I suspect she knows at least some of the truth, and that she has turned away from her own humanity to fulfill an objective that pays well and offers excellent social benefits, but does so at the very dear cost of her own humanity, her empathy, and that ineffable substance rumored to be not real, her critically essential soul.
Perhaps she’s more aware of the truth than she lets on, but I think also that she has very intentionally avoided educating herself on the subject. She doesn’t want to know the truth because it would be inconvenient.
You may very well be right about that – it’s just awfully hard for me to believe knowing how much information is out there, and how long it’s been available. I mean as recently as three to four years ago, Wikipedia’s page on Rahm Emanuel clearly delineated his family’s association with terrorism and the amoral founding of Israel. His uncle, Emanuel Auerbach, and his father who later adopted the name Emanuel as a surname (to obscure his terrorist ties?), were both members of Irgun, a violent terrorist group, who with the Stern Gang, was involved in the bombing of the King David Hotel, and the Deir Yassin massacre. The two groups were responsible for market bombings killing innocent Palestinians out vegetable shopping for their families; bombings in cinemas and assassinations such as that of the UN mediator, Folke Bernadotte, in Palestine in 1948.
Revisionist Zionism supplied the basis of the justification of terrorism: “… every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
It would seem reasonable to assume that anyone who’s been alive and aware of political reality the last 50 years would have, minimally, an awareness that Israel began its existence through breaking man’s laws and the higher law as well. And she’s a smart enough person one would expect her to be curious about the sad state of the world, and the causes of its problems.
You, avelna, appear always to be such a very nice person, gentle and kind, maybe you are too generous to Warren. And maybe I am at fault, not being generous enough.
I’m sure she knows at least as much of the truth as any of us, and probably more. But if she wishes to remain a Senator, and perhaps someday President, she can’t come out against one of the most powerful interest groups in the nation. Especially since she’s taking on another one, Wall Street.
Yes, she is that; there is no other who compares. Taking a DNC boilerplate position on Israel does not negate her work in trying to rein in Wall Street, which was her primary policy mandate when she ran for office. It may be a disappointing position, to be sure; but I’m not going to advocate throwing her out of the Left because of it.
“Yes, she is that; there is no other who compares.”
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
“It may be a disappointing position”? You even tack on “to be sure” for emphatic effect. Your lack of ‘advocacy’ and your glib characterization of the occupation and slaughter of the Palestinian people as “boilerplate positions” that don’t rise to the level of “reining in Wall Street” reveals your true “position” in the matter. Also, your name selection “liberalrob” and your use of the term “Left” in this context are transparently phony. You’re not fooling anyone, liberalrob.
What! This comes up as I post a reply to Alison – I see Mona’s on top of it. Thank you.
“Thanks for your comment. Please be aware that many comments are held for moderation; your comment might not appear immediately.”
Dick Cheney has been hired as the new forum moderator.
LOL!
Dear Allison,
Nobody in their right mind would deny Israel the right to exist but, you seem to be unaware of all the damage Israel has done to this country.
Does Jonathan Pollard ring a bell?
Does the 1967 attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli forces ring a bell?
How about the arrest of an Israeli born movie producer for arranging the purchase of 800 nuclear triggers in this country.?
Or maybe the billions of dollars lost to Israel due to industrial espionage
I don’t question your intelligence but whom do you support? Israel or the US?
Israel has it’s own interests and it has shown it will stop at nothing to achieve them.
I think all aid to Israel should end and that it should be forced to the negotiating table along with all other aggrieved parties and made to hammer out a deal that will once and for all end this foolishness. One of your own politicians recently said that Israel can have ” a smaller country with peace or a larger country with perpetual war but she can’t have both. What do you believe?
When you push people out of their homeland, divest them of their property, occupy them with a militarized police force, randomly murder their children and other family members and repeatedly blow-up efforts to establish a two-state solution, the Israelis and their supporters should not be surprised or act indignant when the Palestinians resist their oppression.
Lying Zionist Scrofula.Move to Haifa, Traitor!
Lying zionist scrofula. Anti-American baby killer.
Your “hasbara” has grown old and stale. You really ought to email the Mossad for some new talking points. I would appreciate the courtesy of at leat offering up some fresh lies for a change.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
According to your spirit-crushing, collectivist thinking, historical injustices are somehow the fault of the grandchildren of the perpetrators of those same injustices.
So, fine. Let’s have another exodus (movement of Jah people) and the Israelis will leave Palestine and relocate to the best piece of Germany, boot all the Germans that already live there out of their homes and off of their land, and viola, problem solved.
Alison, the Palestinians had lived in present-day Israel for centuries, until 1948. Reaction of the West to the holocaust led to the forcible extraction of land to provide a “homeland” for Jews who had been living all over Europe for 100s of years. Would you not resent and fight against someone forcibly taking property you own and perhaps farm in order to give it to someone else? Add to that that the Zionists did not choose, as did many other Israelis, to live compatibly with their Palestinian neighbors. No, they chose to take West Bank land. They chose to build walls making every day living difficult to impossible for Palestinians. They chose to destroy old olive orchards just because they could. They chose to drive Palestinians into an open air prison not very different from the Warsaw Ghetto. Do you really think it is justified to do onto others what someone else has done unto you? Zionists are showing the world that they can be as evil as Nazis. Is that really the legacy you want?
you believe that eastern european jews deserve a country for themselves on arab land and you don’t see how stealing arab land to create this country is an act of aggression?
your opinion is worthless…
No. The Jewish people do NOT have the right to a country of their own if they have to take it from people that already own it, especially if they want to claim it as a democracy. No country can be identified both as an ethno-relgious entity AND a democracy because a democracy is said to represent the interests of all it’s people not just an ethnic elite.
As for Israel’s offers of peace. If Israel had ever had any sincere interest in a peaceful settlement of the conflict they would have advertised that by permanently halting expansion of the squatter communities in the West Bank instead of the nakedly hypocritical temporary pausing during talks (but only a pausing of approvals, the building was still allowed to continue of course). The subsidization of West Bank colonies would have ended, which to be blunt only exists and an inducement to encourage Jews to move to the occupied territories and seize land that does not belong to them.
Looks like those oppressed Israelis just stole another large tract of land from those aggressive Palestinians.
Israel on Sunday confiscated nearly 1,000 acres of privately owned Palestinian land near an Israeli settlement south of Bethlehem in the West Bank — a move described by Israeli rights group Peace Now as “unprecedented in its scope since the 1980s.”
Excuse this Velia.
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Warren, Clinton, Kerry etc. do not represent me or many other Americans (nor do the Republicans.) I agree with your perspective Velia. Some of my so-called progressive friends kept touting Warren as if she could save the country. I have found that you really have to research the US representatives to see what they are truly made of politically. Warrn likes to present herself as a individualistic, firebrand supporting justice. What a crock!
This is the most incisive the Senator has been on an issue. Good for her.
I think she has always had these views and her liberalism is, sadly, confined to the fiscal realm. Maybe Bernie is out last, best, only hope. Really, there’s no hope for now.
She IS the koolaid!
No Israel controls American foreign policy.
I too had hoped for Elizabeth Warren to run against Hillary Clinton. Sadly, her stance on Israel has put an end to that. This gets in the way of her excellent work on financial issues, including student loans. Or was that going to end in disappointment too? When politicians betray the common interest, is it because they were that way all along, or is there some kind of pressure that is put on them when they get successful enough to matter? My mother worked to get a woman elected as mayor of her small town and the woman turned the second she got in office. It was astonishing. We still don’t know if she was being fake before, or if she was read the riot act (or offered something) after she was elected.
thank you, my feelings perfectly expressed.
The white boy troubles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJMHlOaxh9I
No Not Now by Zappa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpdcm4UdvsQ
Ordinarily, I would think she made an “unforced error” … speaking in a situation in which no statement was necessary. She should’ve let it lie.
Unless someone TOLD HER to say those things; which is my real concern.
They told Colin Powell, I believe, to make statements he knew was false; and I believe they were holding photos of someone dear to him when they did it.
Well i hope she put american interest first.
“American interest” is a hateful phrase. It means anything that the US wants, it takes. Elizabeth Warren is a wonderful person domestically. She know nothing of foreign affairs. She is very smart but how smart is someone who kowtows to the Israelis and believes the propaganda? Before siding with Netanyahu and AIPAC, she must be asked this: What would you do if you lived in a prison with no way out without permission from an occupier and every couple of years your families are decimated…in this last case 577 children are dead. How would you feel if your fishing waters shrank from 20 miles, to 12 miles, to 3 miles and if your boat went over the line you would be killed? How would you like your pay for work to be held up for months at someone’s discretion when the money belongs to you? How would you like to be allowed the fewest calories possible just to stay alive. How would you like your family’s 500 year old olive orchard to be ripped out of the ground and your captors take the land for their housing? How would you like someone else determining whether or not you get medicine, water, electricity? How would you like to be questioned, sometime brutally, at checkpoints. In fact, how would you like to have to go through checkpoints at all just to get home or have them closed off altogether at some official’s whim? How would you like to always lose in court even when you are right? I could write forever but will just suggest you read Henry Siegman, a German-born American Jew. He is a non-resident research professor at the Sir Joseph Hotung Middle East Program, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of Longon, a former Senior Fellow on the Middle East at the Council on Foreign Relations and a former National Director of the American Jewish Congress. He wrote, “Israel Provoked this War” and was recently interviewed for two days on Democracy Now! Most enlightening.
Wow!… well said Rob.
How come the GAZA defenders claiming that it is an “Open air prison” don’t question the fact that the “prisoners” manage to smuggle in thousands of rockets, produce more, but have to rely on UN and others for feeding the population? How come the HAMAS Sheikhs have grandiose villas on the Med shore while the population suffers from deficits of everyday stuff? How come when Israelis withdrew and left greenhouses and olive groves, all of it was annihilated “We don’t want anything from the Jews”? Has anyone of them been to GAZA or Israel? Perhaps, because BBC journalist Alan Johnston and avid supporter of Gazans and Israel-basher was kidnapped in GAZA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Johnston
BTW, when release a few months later he rushed to Jerusalem knowing pretty well that the blood-thirsty Israelis will not even spank him!
Oy-Vay!
Because like prisoners virtually everywhere, some Gazans place a priority on smuggling and manufacturing weapons. It would be surprising if they did not.
Mona,
If you are ready to defend the Palestinians under occupation, you also have to be ready to defend them against Hamas that is actually oppressing them through its brutal rules. Maybe you already have and I did not notice. If it is the case, then disregard my point.
Huh? Gazans are angry and outraged with Israel, not with Hamas. I read many Gazans and follow some on Twitter. I’ve seen no such sentiments toward Hamas.
No, they are anguished and outraged at the dead, injured children and other innocents, as well as their homes being turned into rubble by *ISRAEL.* They are angry at their Warden –who keeps them imprisoned — Israel.
Human Rights Watch 2010
In Gaza…severe violations of personal freedom, and repression of civil society groups that defend that freedom, appear to be sharply on the rise. The Hamas government …is consolidating its social control by upping its efforts to Islamize Gaza.
“I have seen no such sentiments toward Hamas”.
Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, 2013
“In the Gaza Strip common violations of the right to freedom of opinion and expression included: summoning, arresting and interrogating journalists and opinion writers as well as citizens for their political opinions; assaulting and disregarding journalists by members of the security services; closing media offices; confiscating journalists’s equipment during their work; and preventing journalists from covering events and from traveling”
Maybe the reason you have not noticed that the Gazans are oppressed is because they would face arrest, torture, and even execution if they dare to challenge Hamas.
Your concern for innocent civilians, specially children is very noble. However, please note these two points:
1) There was no blockade of the Gaza Strip after Israel left in 2005. Why a blockade was imposed two years after the Israeli disengagement?
2) Based on Hamas’ extreme Islamic ideology, which calls for the destruction of Israel, and which specifically states that there is ” no negotiated settlement” (Article 13 of their charter), is it possible that Hamas uses human shields whenever it has a military conflict with Israel? As you probably know, according to the extreme Islamic ideology a kid who dies is martyr, not an innocent civilian.
Actually Israel is a forced entity in that region. Its population of Russian Polish, Europeans all don’t speak Hebrew, but are forced to speak that long dead language. Nevertheless, they managed to implant that little Jewish nation in the mist of angry barbaric Muslim Arab countries. At this point, what can be done? Israel is a viable country that is more prosperous than most of its Arab neighbors, and it is a nuclear power. It is also supported by the biggest power in the world, the USA. The Arabs on the other hand, turned from nationalist to fanatic Islamists. Hence, it is a dead issue for the Palestinians. The only possible way out is to take whatever crumbs that the Israeli will give them, and attempt to drop crazy Islam, Khalifate, MB, jihad, terrorism, and work on improving their social skills, and education to propell their population to the 21st century society.
She was my heroine for her internal Policy of helping the poor end the vulnerable. Now, she is quite the opposite in foreign relations.She deceives me a lot. She seems to want the jewish vote at all costs. Too bad.
It’s not the Jewish vote,they make up less than 2% of the electorate.It’s the Jewish Zionist media that makes or breaks candidates that she is angling for.
Is it really votes at this point in summer of 2014? Perhaps her interest is securing corporate and financial support, without which there is no candidacy. So much for representatives of actual ordinary people!
I’d like to reply to this comment about the Jewish Zionist meeting but in a few hours I have my weekly meeting with some other Jews on how we should be running the world.
i don’t really see much difference between War loving Zionist and War loving Western northern European’s.
Same goes for most of Africa.
Most folks have a blood thirst…
That is, until you consider India. Those folks should perhaps be appointed the worlds peace makers.
Yeah,you are correct,the MSM meet with Israeli minders every day and they help write the front page news.It’s documented,but I’m sure you will crimea river of deNile.Where is or what happened to your honor,Zionists?Or is it by deception,that you rule?
It’s the $$$, pal.
Bingo! Sidney!
As long as the elections are funded by deep pocket special interests (with the Supreme court’s blessing) and the media decides who gets to debate and what the leading questions will be there is NO chance for change in America. Publicly funded elections, equal media time and NO television commercials. Hey, if only the readers vote now that wouldn’t be so bad, would it. What is the chance of these change coming… zero, nada, zip zilch.
I’m afraid it’s really as simple as you say, Sidney: bought and paid for. Patriotism is out, treason is in. “It’s a republic, madam, if you can keep it,” Ben Franklin is said to have replied to a questioning woman as he was leaving the constitutional convention. The answer is now in and it’s definitive. No doubt it good that the “indispensable” nation finds a little humility and plunges to earth. The urgent task is get the fingers of so many sociopaths off those nuclear buttons.
Correct!
It is called national socialism..She wants the “victors spoils” to go to the poor, welfare programs at “home”. She is not very intrested in where the “spoils” come from. I say she is a good redistributer of wealth,,,,(not her own wealth though ofc…)
More proof of, a Fascist Dictatorial Militarized Surveillance State, but the military forgets two important points, illegal orders are invalid orders and they do not supersede the Constitution.Hopefully if this goes to trial, it will be a Federal Jury trial
Ferguson MO. is not a black or white issue its about, Facism or Liberty ! Its time to dismantle the Fascist Dictatorial Militarized Surveillance State ! Americans must realize if they can get away with military tactics against black folks they can get away with doing the same to you ! Wrong is wrong & it matters not what your skin color is .
Time for some PAYBACK, wake up America, Democrats or Republicans. liberals or conservatives it’s two sides of the same evil coin it’s called Fascism. So the next time a Democrat or Republican asks for your vote, support or money just say no & vote for an independent candidate.
Send a message they can’t ignore & will understand ! ! Both parties have been complicit in this criminal activity. Some will say they don’t want to waste their vote, but you are already wasting your vote on Democrats & Republicans because they are the ones who have already betrayed us & they have been doing it for decades. This should be a joint effort on the part of all Americans, Democrats,Republicans & Independent voters ! Organize now before its to late ! Your liberty is at stake and that of your children & grandchildren !
REMEMBER: POLITICIANS, BUREAUCRATS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON.
Some word of true Patriots are as follows, as opposed to the words of false flag patriotism of today.
He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.
Benjamin Franklin
He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
Benjamin Franklin
Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms of government those
entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
James Madison
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of
their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry
“We the People are the rightful masters of BOTH Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution”
Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln
We should not forget the Waring of Presentation Eisenhower .
http://YouTube.be/8y06NSBBR
The NSA is controled & operated by the DOD & the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) Private Corporations.
“The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.”
President John F. Kennedy
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel
April 27, 1961
As is said in the law, falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. (“False in one thing, false in all things” is an instruction given to jurors: if they find that a witness lied about an important matter, they are entitled to ignore everything else that witness said.)
Also, as a reminder Hermann Goering said at the Nuremberg Trials .
“The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
NSA General Keith Alexander told lawmakers “that even if approved, the measure would not necessarily end warrant-less collection depending on judicial interpretation.”
Disclaimer: Be advised it is possible, that this communication is being monitored by the National Security Agency, GCHQ or other third party organizations. I neither condone nor support any such policy, by any Government authority or organization that does not comply, as stipulated by the 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
I fully agree that both major parties are now totally owned and controlled by the corporate elite and to vote for candidates from either party is truly “throwing away your vote.” It is time for a “Vote Other” campaign beginning with this year’s election to demonstrate widespread support for independent candidates so that voters begin to have real choices on upcoming ballots. Petitioning for the addition of 3 Independent members to the 3 Republican and 3 Democrat members on the Electoral Commission is also necessary to level the playing field for alternative candidates.
http://eclinik.wordpress.com/2014/08/21/israel-citizens-hold-key-us-govt-positions/
ISRAELI CITIZENS HOLD KEY US GOV’T POSITIONS
AUGUST 21, 2014
Press TV has learned that a long list of senior US government officials and legislators hold dual US-Israeli citizenship, proving Tel Aviv’s powerful influence over Washington’s decision-making process.
………
The prominent US-Israeli officials in the list include:
Attorney General Michael Mukasey,
Head of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff,
Chairman of Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board Richard Perle,
former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowits,
Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith,
National Security Advisor Elliot Abrams,
White House Deputy Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten,
Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Marc Grossman,
Director of Policy Planning at the State Department Richard Haass,
US Trade Representative (cabinet-level position) Robert Zoellick,
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board Eliot Cohen,
former UN Ambassador John Bolton,
White House Political Director Ken Melman,
White House Speechwriter David Frum,
Deputy Secretary of Commerce Samuel Bodman, and
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board Henry Kissinger.
Israel receives billions of dollars of American taxpayers’ money each year. Under an existing 10-year aid agreement between Washington and Tel Aviv signed in 2007, USD 30 billion of American money is flowing to Israel.
The US’ annual military aid to Israel has been elevated from USD 2.4 billion to USD 3.1 billion through 2017 under the existing agreement.
………..
I wonder how many Jewish American pols and family members have homes in Israel or the WB?Would be very very revealing eh?
I’m sure the NYT or WashPo will get working on that story pronto!
I have to say that I don’t think much of your source, Beverly, or the particular article you have drawn attention to. The article is dated August 21, 2014, then goes on to name the specific people you delineated above, all of whom are no longer currently in government positions as they were employed during the Bush administration.
It has nothing to say about any current administration folks whatsoever, which seems a bit suspect as well.
In addition, a cursory examination of John Bolton’s history, for instance, shows him to be Lutheran. A lot of the neocon supporters of Israel’s militaristic policies are Christians (Dick Cheney, a Methodist, and Lindsey Graham, who is Baptist, come immediately to mind). While some folks in government, like Rahm Emmanuel no doubt DO have dual citizenship, I’m pretty sure you have to do more than just liberally and sloppily kiss Israel’s ass and pander their whims using US tax dollars to obtain said citizenship. And I don’t think the existence of such citizenship is necessarily any more, or less, damning than the actions they take in the name, and against the wishes, of many of the citizens of the country they are sworn to serve.
Yes, I avoid citing Press TV, except when they directly quote someone, and preferably with video.
The article cited and quoted by Beverly Harlan asserts Press TV as its source, but doesn’t give any actual citation, so I wouldn’t hold Press TV responsible for its inaccuracies.
Well, if you scroll down to the word SOURCE – click, it takes you to the original PressTV story.
http://presstv.com/detail/2014/08/20/376014/israel-citizens-hold-key-us-positions/
Rahm Emmanuel–Now there’s a clever face in Politics
Is he not a Israeli agent in the ear of Obama from day one
Then he gets Chicago–nice
Right in front of us, kids
Do you think John Bolton,clearly a nut,would be quoted or attended to or supported by the MSM if he had a contrary opinion of Israel,and our insane policies?
Not being Jewish elevates him to the top of the list of traitors,and Cheney and Lindsey aint Christians,they are either atheists,phonies,or heretics,as actual Christians would never ever endorse the hate death and war they endorse.
I am quite taken aback to discover that Bill and Hillary Clinton, George Bush and Dick Cheney, Obama and John Kerry are not listed here. Are they for some reason disqualified from holding such dual citizenship?
lizard people ain’t actual people, making the need for citizenship obsolete
They planted a tree in the Zioforest,don’t worry,they’ll make out as noble goyim.Stinking lying traitors to me though,intent on our destruction.
A more complete list:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/list-of-politicians-with-israeli-dual-citizenship-/175479365845092
Please include the fourth estate (major networks, only paper in US- NY Times and the Hollywood studios) to complete the information and cultural bias that complete the world view that the US holds forth to the world.
blockquote>Bangert told Warren that the money “could have been spent on infrastructure or helping immigrants fleeing Central America.”
Also in related news, the Iron Dome that Warren is so pleased to send tax payer money to continue to fund does not work as claimed; not even close. Boondoggle.
Not this tripe again. From TFA:
That’s one. Two is that Postol defines success as a direct hit, period. That’s a very narrow definition because an interceptor not being launched at a missile that’s not about to hit populated areas, a missile being destroyed by interceptor explosion in proximity, deflection without complete destruction and so on are not counted as success by this analysis.
Of course the alternative being that this is all a massive Israeli conspiracy theory. Plausible no doubt to a moron who desperately wishes for some dirt on Israel, no matter what kind.
Yes, of course that would have to be the alternative. Only a moron could believe that Raytheon is corrupt and that the US government would spend tax dollars on a system that is not what it is cracked up to be.
His credentials are irrelevant if he’s A) discussing a very specific type of interception and B) arrived at his conclusions by watching “amateur videos and photos“.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Israel for, hell, I might even join in. If you decide to debase yourself by spouting lunacy however, I’m going to call you out on it.
One additional point. Once again from TFA:
At the heart of the Iron Dome system is probably a piece of software that decides when to fire an interceptor and where. Software can be upgraded. My smartphone received two major upgrades and several minor ones since 2012. What makes you think Iron Dome remained unchanged?
no physical limitations, it’s just software. just like a smart phone. lol. the sky, is literally, the limit!
*jerk off*
“… a moron who desperately wishes for some dirt on Israel …”
That’s funny… only a moron would be desperate for dirt on Israel since it’s so blatantly there in copious amounts. Israel wallows in great mudpiles of foetid dirt like a fat, contented pig.
The iron dome makes security for all people from terror ,the solution to this nonsense,further away,as it is selective in its use,and unavailable to their opponents.
AIPAC rules! Any USA politician with ambition, whatever their politics, left or right, has to tow the Zionist party line. Senator Warren’s choice is to do whatever AIPAC wants, or else she’ll soon become ex-Senator Warren.
incorrect: two the line
correct: toe the line
correcting the correction (with red-face):
incorrect: two the line
corrected incorrection: tow the line
Toe the line is correct. Not tow.
Perfect example of both of how an ideology captures the mind, and how the status quo has its own momentum.
I have known for over 50 years from sources like I. F. Stone’s weekly that Israel policy toward Palestinians was wrong and had to change. I must have bought the liberal Zionist rhetoric that things would work out eventually.
Only in the past week have I realized that the agenda of Zionism for over 100 years has been what is brutally displayed in the Gaza genocide. And I have read Juan Cole every morning for more than a decade. If I didn’t get the big picture, one would expect that low information people would not have a clue.
Alison Weir has been on this issue for decades and extensive information is available on the web site “If Americans Knew – what Americans need to know about I/P” about the monetary and foreign policy costs to the US in the support of Israel.
http://ifamericansknew.org/
and here is a speech by Alison that is an excellent overview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-UwcVP_k2Y&feature=youtu.be
I have been following Max Blumenthal on twitter and Ferguson and see parallels of the use of military in civil society. Some excellent recent interviews of Max and articles on the topic.
American political leaders have ignored the hard problems of governing for decades.
Why not have some backbone and end the support of war crimes in Israel and improve the world?
Don Midwest USA – you nailed it – U.S. foreign policy has to change and it can’t with Israel & AIPAC interfering . Remove AIPAC from U.S. Politics and sanction Israel to stop building illegal settlements and to end the occupation and apartheid.
Rick,
Couldn’t have said it any better.
Further, AIPAC and the pro-Israeli lobby use their control over Congress and the U.S. electronic and print media to demonize this simple, fundamental formula for a solution to the injustice in Gaza and the West Bank.
Wouldn’t removing the massive amounts of money involved by limiting campaign contributions,or better yet,public financing of elections,serve US better?The Zionists backed every money influencing decision by our cretinous traitor politicians,as he who has the gold rules in America today.
You don’t get to be a famous Senator or Governor or even Congressman if you fight strong Lobbygroups such as AIPAC. So, no surprise about her reaction.
So to elaborate on your lack of surprise, are you saying that is okay with you that Warren and other sitting politicians promote dishonest propaganda and cast their senatorial or House votes based on that dishonest propaganda? Are you saying that no one should bother to point out the details of what a sitting senator has to say on policy about Israel? Are you saying that Glenn Greenwald is wasting his time writing a post such as the one he has written today? Are you saying that we readers are wasting our time bothering to read it, since it is, in your words, “no surprise?”
It’s certainly not OK, but its hopeless to expect any different from someone who has a reasonable chance to become President of the US.
I think its a waste of time to try to expose the candidates, thy are – more or less – pretty much the same. It would be worth a fight to try and change the system though.
The Congress should be elected differently, (for a good example, look at Germany how they elect their Bundestag) the main power should rely in the Congress and not with the President.
Maybe that should be the focus. Thats what Im missing in all these reports I read everywhere these days.
Warren isn’t a candidate, she is a sitting Senator. Also, one would think that “exposing the candidates” and exposing the policy proposals of politicians within the system would be part of changing the system. Why bother changing the system if it is not corrupt? How is anyone to know that it is corrupt and just how corrupted it is if the system and the players within the system are not, specifically and in detail, exposed?
It is already accepted amongst the population that DC and everybody in it is totally corrupt. So whats the point in further explaining to people just how corrupt they are? Maybe it would be better to promote a change in the system and explain what kind of change that should be and why it would be better.
But if you wanna expose, you could expose Lobbies. Exposing politicians seems a waste of time since you dont really have to convince everybody how corrupt they are. The people already know. We should focus on really promoting a change in the system. maybe that will lead to somewhere.
Which I’m sure will explain why “the people” will be cheering wildly for Warren if and when she becomes a candidate?
How is exposing the lobbies any different than exposing the politicians? You don’t think that “The people already know” that the lobbies are corrupt?
So many of the lobbyists are former or future politicians (or vice-versa) so exposing the corruption of one is exposing the corruption of the other. Not a pointless exercise methinks.
Some guy named Chomsky called it manufacturing consent,the people cheering wildly for whomever,be it Warren or Hillaryious.If people knew their actual intentions,they’d tar and feather these idiots.Look at Warrens eyes;I see nothing there.
It’s enormously refreshing and a great relief to have the Intercept as a source for information
Regarding that alleged political spectrum in the US Noam Chomsky provides excellent clarification here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjENnyQupow