For the CIA officials involved in torture, one thing was clear from the very beginning: The only way they would be forgiven for what they did was if they could show it had saved lives.
It was the heart of their rationale. It was vital to public acceptance. It was how they would avoid prosecution.
The executive summary of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s grindingly exhaustive torture report released Tuesday indelibly captures CIA officials turning their back on human decency, and it all starts with a “novel” legal defense floated in November 2001 by CIA lawyers – and arguably prompted by their White House masters, lurking offstage – that the “CIA could argue that the torture was necessary to prevent imminent, significant, physical harm to persons, where there is no other available means to prevent the harm.”
Specifically, they pointed out: “states may be very unwilling to call the U.S. to task for torture when it resulted in saving thousands of lives.”
And so, when the tragically predictable sequence of events began to unfold – and torture, as it always has, produced false confessions and little to no intelligence of value – admitting that it had failed was not even an option.
Instead, those involved made up stories of success.
They insisted that Abu Zubaydah was a top al Qaeda figure who, only after being waterboarded, provided information that foiled a major attack on the U.S. – even though Zubaydah wasn’t in al Qaeda, the plot was a farce, and the only related information he provided came before he was tortured.
They cast Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s false confessions as deadly threats, then announced they had been thwarted.
They viciously brutalized people, some of them entirely innocent, and described what they were doing as an art and a science.
Senate investigators, who had access to millions of pages of original CIA cables and other source material, used most of the 499 pages in Tuesday’s release documenting example after example of CIA officials doing gruesome things, then telling convenient falsehoods to each other, to their bosses, to the White House, to anyone who questioned them, and to Congress – all to prove to everyone that torture worked.
By mid-2003, the CIA’s constant mantra was that “enhanced interrogation tactics” had “saved lives,” “thwarted plots,” and “captured terrorists.” Saying otherwise was like blasphemy.
The end result was that when President George W. Bush and other top government officials finally told the public about the program, they trafficked in almost nothing but misinformation.
Should we call these lies? The Senate report doesn’t. (Then again, it also doesn’t call what happened “torture”.)
The people who actually knew the facts certainly lied, obliging the requests from their superiors for examples of effective torture.
Maybe some of the people who heard the lies, and passed them on, let themselves believe they were true. For the CIA, that would be even worse, because a susceptibility to lies is a fatal flaw for an agency charged with providing fact-based intelligence to keep the nation safe.
What the Senate’s summary tells us is that the modern CIA is actuated by fantasy and faith. It’s a familiar charge; we saw the same pattern in the CIA when its political masters wanted a case for war in Iraq.
Oregon Democratic Senator Ron Wyden observed on Tuesday that “The current CIA leadership has been alarmingly resistant to acknowledging the full scope of the mistakes and misrepresentations that surrounded this program for so many years.”
There are no indications the CIA is ready to turn things around, of course. CIA Director John Brennan went to extraordinary lengths to stymie and discredit the investigation. And now, he is rebuffing its conclusions.
Brennan’s statement Tuesday acknowledged “shortcomings” and “mistakes,” but reasserted “that interrogations of detainees on whom [enhanced interrogation techniques] EITs were used did produce intelligence that helped thwart attack plans, capture terrorists, and save lives.” He angrily rejected the report’s “inference that the Agency systematically and intentionally misled” Congress, the Executive Branch, and the public.”
And while they remain offstage by design, nothing in this report in any way exonerates the people who were running the show from the White House.
Other reports and works of journalism have clearly identified Vice President Dick Cheney as the prime mover in creating a torture regime that extended not just to the black sites, but to Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and elsewhere. Cheney was no victim of misinformation; he was its architect.
And George W. Bush might have remained unfamiliar with the details until as late as 2006 – “According to CIA records, when briefed in April 2006, the president expressed discomfort with the ‘image of a detainee, chained to the ceiling, clothed in a diaper, and forced to go to the bathroom on himself’.” But he must have had some idea what Cheney and others were up to in the basement.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The report adds nauseating new details to the already substantial record of the CIA’s enthusiastic descent into savagery after capturing its first terror suspects, post-9/11.
There’s the image of the CIA’s first fully documented torture victim, Abu Zubaydah, becoming “completely unresponsive, with bubbles rising through his open, full mouth” after a session of repeated near-drownings on the waterboard.
There are descriptions of sleep deprivation that “involved keeping detainees awake for up to 180 hours, usually standing or in stress positions, at times with their hands shackled above their heads.”
The report identifies 26 detainees, out of the CIA’s 119 in total, who the agency itself determined should never have been held at all. That unfortunate group includes “Abu Hudhaifa, who was subjected to ice water baths and 66 hours of standing sleep deprivation before being released because the CIA discovered he was likely not the person he was believed to be,” and “Nazir Ali, an ‘intellectually challenged’ individual whose taped crying was used as leverage against his family member.”
The report also creates new additions to the CIA’s lexicon of torture euphemisms, such as “rectal rehydration” and “rectal feeding”:
At least five detainees were subjected to rectal rehydration or rectal feeding. There is at least one record of Abu Zubaydah receiving “rectal fluid resuscitation” for “partially refusing liquids.” … KSM was subjected to rectal rehydration without a determination of medical need, a procedure that KSM interrogator and chief of interrogations [REDACTED} would later characterize as illustrative of the interrogator’s “total control over the detainee.”
The authors don’t just document these new atrocities, they cite them to illustrate how baldly CIA officials deceived others about what was really going on.
A particular sore point is the inaccurate information the CIA fed to Congress. First CIA officials disavowed torture, and promised that the Senate Intelligence Committee would be notified about every individual detained by the CIA. Then came the misinformation and the outright subterfuge.
A 2005 proposal from Senator Carl Levin to establish an independent commission to investigate detainee abuse, for instance, “resulted in concern at the CIA that such a commission would lead to the discovery of videotapes documenting CIA interrogations.” As a result, the CIA destroyed them.
Michael Hayden, former director of the National Security Agency (NSA), at a conference hosted by the Bipartisan Policy Center (BPC), August 6, 2013 in Washington, DC.
The summary devotes a 37-page appendix on “Inaccurate CIA Testimony” by former CIA Director Michael Hayden in one Senate Intelligence Committee hearing alone.
At the April 12, 2007, hearing, Director Hayden verbally provided extensive inaccurate information on, among other topics: (1) the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, (2) the application of Department of Defense survival school practices to the program, (3) detainees’ counter interrogation training, (4) the backgrounds of CIA interrogators, (5) the role of other members of the interrogation teams, (6) the number of CIA detainees and their intelligence production, (7) the role of CIA detainee reporting in the captures of terrorist suspects, (8) the interrogation process, (9) the use of detainee reporting, (10) the purported relationship between Islam and the need to use the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques, (11) threats against detainees’ families, (12) the punching and kicking of detainees, (13) detainee hygiene, (14) denial of medical care, (15) dietary manipulation, (16) the use of waterboarding and its effectiveness, and (17) the injury and death of detainees.
Hayden told the Senate Intelligence committee: “Punches and kicks are not authorized and have never been employed.” But interviews conducted for two CIA internal reviews described the treatment of Gul Rahman, the detainee who died at the Salt Pit. One witness stated:
[T]here were approximately five CIA officers from the renditions team… they opened the door of Rahman’s cell and rushed in screaming and yelling for him to “getdown.” They dragged him outside, cut off his clothes and secured him with Mylar tape. They covered his head with a hood and ran him up and down a long corridor adjacent to his cell. They slapped him and punched him several times… a couple of times the punches were forceful. As they ran him along the corridor, a couple of times he fell and they dragged him through the dirt (the floor outside of the cells is dirt). Rahman did acquire a number of abrasions on his face, legs, and hands, but nothing that required medical attention. (This may account for the abrasions found on Rahman’s body after his death. Rahman had a number of surface abrasions on his shoulders, pelvis, arms, legs, and face.)
Hayden also lied to Congress about how many detainees were held. At first, the CIA’s lowball numbers were, amazingly enough, just a mistake
Internal CIA documents indicate that inadequate record keeping made it impossible for the CIA to determine how many individuals it had detained. In December 2003, a CIA Station overseeing CIA detention operations in Country [REDACTED] informed CIA Headquarters that it had made the “unsettling discovery” that the CIA was “holding a number of detainees about whom” it knew “very little.”
But five years later, when a CIA officer informed Hayden that the correct number was 112 or more, the officer sent himself an email to memorialize the conversation: “DCIA instructed me to keep the detainee number at 98 – pick whatever date i [sic] needed to make that happen but the number is 98.”
At a 2006 congressional hearing, then-CIA director Porter Goss said the CIA’s interrogation program is “not a brutality. It’s more of an art or a science that is refined.”
But the report provides new, horrifying details about what it calls COBALT – the notorious Salt Pit facility in Afghanistan, that one CIA official described as a “dungeon.”
The CIA kept few formal records of the detainees in its custody at COBALT. Untrained CIA officers at the facility conducted frequent, unauthorized, and unsupervised interrogations of detainees using harsh physical interrogation techniques that were not—and never became—part of the CIA’s formal “enhanced” interrogation program. The CIA placed a junior officer with no relevant experience in charge of COBALT. On November [REDACTED], 2002, a detainee who had been held partially nude and chained to a concrete floor died from suspected hypothermia at the facility.
Although most of the misinformation documented in the report dates back to the Bush years, Senate investigators also debunked the narrative – spread by Obama-era CIA officials – that torture was responsible for the capture of bin Laden.
Within a day of the UBL operation, the CIA began providing classified briefings to Congress on the overall operation and the intelligence that led to the raid and UBL’s death. On May 2, 2011, CIA officials, including CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell, briefed the Committee. A second briefing occurred on May 4, 2011, when CIA Director Leon Panetta and other CIA officials briefed both the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Armed Services Committee. Both of these briefings indicated that CIA detainee information—and the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques—played a substantial role in developing intelligence that led to the UBL operation.
The report documents the ample information the CIA had from other sources about the courier who ultimately led them to bin Laden.
The CIA did not receive any information from CIA detainees on Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti until 2003. Nonetheless, by the end of 2002, the CIA was actively targeting Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti and had collected significant reporting on Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti—to include reporting on Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti’s close links to UBL.
In fact, the information in the report supports the argument that torture may have slowed the hunt for bin Laden.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Attorney General Eric Holder has frequently stipulated “that the Department of Justice will not prosecute anyone who acted in good faith and within the scope of the legal guidance given by the Office of Legal Counsel regarding the interrogation of detainees.”
The Senate report makes clear that the DOJ memos giving legal cover to CIA officers were based on crucial misrepresentations by the CIA of its needs and its conduct. The DOJ memos “relied on the CIA’s claim that the techniques were necessary to save lives,” the investigators wrote.
Although the CIA proceeded to interpret its authorities more generally, the initial memos were largely derived from what the CIA told DOJ about Zubaydah, and much of that was simply not true.
Most notably, CIA “headquarters” informed DOJ and White House officials in July 2002 that Abu Zubaydah’s interrogation team believed he possessed information on terrrorists and terrorist threats in the U.S. “The CIA officials further represented that the interrogation team had concluded that the use of more aggressive methods ‘is required to persuade Abu Zubaydah to provide the critical information needed to safeguard the lives of innumerable innocent men, women, and children within the United States and abroad,’ and warned ‘countless more Americans may die unless we can persuade AZ to tell us what he knows.'”
But according to the CIA cables the Senate investigators reviewed, the interrogation team had not made any such determination — quite the contrary. They wrote that they were operating under the assumption that Zubaydah was “not holding back actionable information concerning threats to the United States beyond that which [he] has already provided.”
The report also finds that some tactics employed by the CIA went beyond what was allowed by those memos, concluding for instance that the routine use of nudity, abdominal slaps and cold-water dousing were not approved by the Justice Department.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Supporters of the CIA’s interrogation tactics prefer not to call them torture. And some media outlets still shy away from the term. But it’s preposterous to call them anything else.
And one telling series of events described in the report (initially revealed in a 2009 New York Times article by Mark Mazzetti and Scott Shane) makes it clear that CIA officials knew exactly what it was they were doing.
It’s a White House tradition that the President makes an obligatory and anodyne proclamation each year on the occasion of the United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture.
In 2003, George W. Bush’s included the following language:.
The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy.
But when then-CIA general counsel John Rizzo heard about that statement – along with a quote from White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan that all prisoners being held by the U.S. government were being treated “humanely” — he panicked.
Rizzo wanted to make sure this didn’t represent a change in policy.
He called John Bellinger, then the legal advisor to the National Security Council, to “express our surprise and concern at some of the statements.”
Rizzo told his CIA colleagues that it “might well be appropriate for us to seek written reaffirmation by some senior White House official that the Agency’s ongoing practices… are to continue.”
CIA director George Tenet then sent a memo to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice seeking reaffirmation of White House support because “recent Administration responses to inquiries and resulting media reporting about the Administration’s position have created the impression that these [interrogation] techniques are not used by U.S. personnel and are no longer approved as a policy matter.”
Not coincidentally, it was right about then that the CIA started making a major effort internally to build the case that what they had been doing was effective.
The report documents, for instance, the effort by the chief of ALEC station – the CIA unit charged with finding Osama bin Laden – requesting information from his subordinates on the “value and impact” of CIA detainee information, which he said was being compiled for senior CIA leadership. He wrote asking for information “that helped reveal or stop plots, reporting that clinched the identity of terrorist suspects, etc.”‘
Subordinates responded enthusiastically. And information started flowing up the chain of command.
On July 29, 2003, as a result of DCI Tenet’s July 3, 2003, request seeking reaffirmation of the CIA’s detention and interrogation policies and practices. Tenet and CIA General Counsel Scott Muller conducted a briefing for a subset of the National Security principals. According to a CIA memorandum, Muller represented that CIA “detainees subject to the use of Enhanced Techniques of one kind or another had produced significant intelligence information that had, in the view of CIA professionals, saved lives.”
The CIA briefing provided the “results” of using the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques in briefing slides with the heading: “RESULTS: MAJOR THREAT INFO.” The slides represented that KSM provided information on “[a]ttack plans against US Capitol, other US landmarks”; “[a]ttacks against Chicago, New York, Los Angeles; against towers, subways, trains, reservoirs, Hebrew centers, Nuclear power plants”; and the “Heathrow and Canary Wharf Plot.” The slides also represented that KSM identified Iyman Paris, the “Majid Khan family,” and Sayf al-Rahman Paracha. These representations were largely inaccurate.
Eventually, those lies made their way up to George W. Bush.
On September 6, 2006, President Bush delivered a speech based on information provided by the CIA, fully vetted by the CIA, that was full of misinformation.
Marc Thiessen, who wrote the speech and is now a columnist for the Washington Post, described its genesis several years later:
This was the most carefully vetted speech in presidential history — reviewed by all the key players from the individuals who ran the program all the way up to the director of national intelligence, who personally attested to the accuracy of the speech in a memo to the president.
But as the report powerfully argues, the speech “included numerous inaccurate representations about the CIA program and the effectiveness of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques.”
In fact, the CIA’s vetting of the speech, which is detailed in CIA “validation” documents, made it even more inaccurate.
One week before the scheduled speech, a passage in the draft speech made inaccurate claims about the role played by Abu Zubaydah in the capture of Ramzi bin al-Shibh and the role of Abu Zubaydah and Ramzi bin al-Shibh in the capture of KSM, but did not explicitly connect these claims to the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques.
CIA records show Zubaydah played no role in the capture of al-Shibh, and the capture of KSM had absolutely nothing to do with either of them. But the final version of the speech went even further, directly connecting the use of the CIA’s “enhanced interrogation techniques” against Zubaydah to bin al-Shibh’s capture.
Bush also said: “Once in our custody, KSM was questioned by the CIA using these procedures, and he soon provided information that helped us stop another planned attack on the United States.”
But the convoluted story Bush told was completely untrue and unsupported. The CIA “validated” the claim with a June 2003 cable, leaving out any mention of a March 2003 cable which showed that information about the alleged plot, such as it was, actually came out before KSM said anything.
“Terrorists held in CIA custody have also provided information… [that] they helped stop a plot to hijack passenger planes and fly them into Heathrow or the Canary Wharf in London,” Bush said.
But according to Senate investigators:
A review of records indicates that the Heathrow Airport and Canary Wharf plotting had not progressed beyond the initial planning stages when the operation was fully disrupted with the detentions of Ramzi bin al-Shibh, KSM, Ammar-al-Baluchi, and Khallad bin Attash. None of these individuals were captured as a result of reporting obtained during or after the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques against CIA detainees.
The Senate report also exposes what was perhaps the Bush administration’s single most cited example of how torture saved American lives as, quite literally, a joke.
Bush and others frequently said that information gained by waterboarding led to the disruption of a plot by U.S. citizen Jose Padilla in Chicago that involved blowing up apartment buildings in the United States and possibly “using a ‘dirty bomb’ in the U.S.”
But the Senate report discloses that that Padilla and his associate, Binyam Mohammed, conceived what the CIA called the “Dirty Bomb Plot” after reading a satirical magazine article, “How to Make Your Own H-Bomb,” that instructed would-be bomb makers to enrich uranium by putting liquid uranium hexafluoride in a bucket, attaching a six-foot rope to the bucket handle, and swinging “the rope (and attached bucket) around your head as fast as possible… for about 45 minutes.”
According to the Senate report, that’s exactly how Padilla was planning to build the “dirty bomb.” That ludicrous plan is what landed him in a military brig for three and a half years, labeled as an enemy combatant, before the Bush administration released him to federal court to face other charges.
Jose Padilla, center, is escorted to a waiting police vehicle by federal marshals near downtown Miami, Jan. 5, 2006.
Furthermore, CIA operational cables and other records showed “that the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques played no role in the identification of Jose Padilla or the thwarting” of any plot. When Zubaydah provided information on a “dirty bomb” attack, he didn’t identify Padilla by name – and in any case, whatever he did say was while talking to the FBI, three months before the CIA started torturing him. And the CIA first heard about Padilla from a foreign government, the report states.
A fascinating footnote to the Padilla case involves the CIA’s refusal to admit its error, even years later. In 2008, the Intelligence Committee sent the CIA a question: “Why was this information [related to Padilla], which was not obtained through the use of EITs, included in the ‘Effectiveness Memo’?”
Committee investigators found that one CIA official drafted a response admitting that the agency had “simply inadvertently reported this wrong. Abu Zubaydah provided information on Jose Padilla while being interrogated by the FBI.”
But someone higher up on the foodchain had that draft killed. The truth was simply too much of a threat.
Photo: Dennis Brack/Black Star/Getty Images; Hayden: Mark Wilson/Getty Images; Padilla: J. Pat Carter/AP
Of course the truth is a threat to the perps. The truth about the CIA-MOSSAD mass murder false flag attack and cover up. on 9-11 is still the big threat to their rule by fear and deception.
As an agnostic, I can comfortably wish all of you today, a Happy Hannukah, Happy Xmas, Happy Kwanza. And if your religious affiliation falls into neither of the aforementioned categories, may you experience joy this season anyway.
Same to you, Pat B. and all TI’ers.
Thanks Pat B. and feilne16 – the same for all TI’ers as well!
I do not expect a comment to appear immediately – you also have to cover yourself
JUST MORE LIES – another excuse?? oops, we destroyed the torture tapes that we were under “court order to preserve” by accident.
Worse than lawyers who you can say if their lips are moving they are lying. Drug Smuggling under the Reagan administration ( congressional hearings )
The great scheme of the “Iran / Contra” arms for hostages?? Pinochet and the disappeared / learning torture or teaching it??
any and every excuse to cover the truth…..George Bush said he acted under advice of council….
When will the C.I.A be called the C.L.A stands for Court Lying Again !!!!
In case you haven’t see it — PLEASE have a look at this great article in today’s Belfast Telegraph :
CIA Torture – These Depravities Are Not Going To Infuriate The Muslim World Because They Have Been Enraged About These Crimes For Years
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/robert-fisk/cia-torture-these-depravities-are-not-going-to-infuriate-the-muslim-world-because-they-have-been-enraged-about-these-crimes-for-years-30820767.html?google_editors_picks=true
Precisely. It’s such bullshit to claim that this will “endanger American lives” any more than it already has, and the acknowledgement that the blowback from these actions by the US is bound to be exactly what it is and that the US and its allies have acted in exactly the same manner against those they deem enemies, will, unfortunately never happen. American Exceptionalism is one of the most dangerous assumptions in the world today.
Good link. Here’s another one about past years’ crimes: the Brazilian government also has a report out this week about US complicity in torture with their military regime. One of the victims was the current President, Dilma Rousseff.
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/12/12/3602740/brazils-own-torture-report-says-us-taught-torture-techniques-to-brazilian-military/
Craig Murray, the former U.K. Ambassador to Uzbekistan has songs to sing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4dy9NFL4F4
Is anyone listening?
“…total control over the detainee…”
Exactly my assertion. The whole torture program was essentially a mind-control experimentation, the attributes of which consist of traumatic levels of torture and severe humiliation. 911 provided the ideal climate and the will and value system of the “enemy” would be crushed and radically transformed, respectively.
A 1956 memo by then CIA director Dulles to then President Hoover, clearly spells out the distinction between interrogation for purposes of extracting information from a detainee, and interrogation for mind control and brainwashing purposes.The former is never to be severe, as the mental integrity of the subject must be preserved to ensure that information obtained is not compromised by an altered state of mind and that its integrity must be reasonably assured.
In the case of the latter, the torture must necessarily be both brutal and humiliating in order to achieve a mental dissassociation – a decidedly altered mental state.
Rectal feeding is sexual abuse at the extreme, in which, if enough pressure is applied to force the liquid food up the alimentary canal, a person could literally end up with mouthfuls of his own feces. Few would not succumb to mental disintegration from this, and few would have their brains intact after repeated waterboarding followed by convulsions, as we now learn from the report.
In both cases, the damaged mental state of the subject is hardly a desirable mental place to be if reliable information is to be expected out of the person.
This destroys the argument of the “ticking bomb scenario” used to justify the sadistic orgies. And to further prove that this was mind control torture for brainwashing, no information was ever obtained through its use – because none is truly ever sought under mind control torture for brainwashing to begin with.
Traumatic levels of torture in mind control must lead to a personality disintegration of the subject, total helplessness, loss of identity, complete submission and complete loss of a recognition of previous self. These mark a critical inflection point in the program, and it is at this point that the subject is reprogrammed with a brand new value system. Or killed if the theory does not work on the person. Or menticided, as Dr Robert Duncan terms the deliberate and irreversible destruction of one’s brain through traumatic torture.
We know from the revelations that Zubaydah, and possibly many others, in the end attained these mental states and could physically respond to a mere raise of the eyebrow, among other things he could do without verbal direction. This is classic mind control.
Why no one talks of mind control? Because it is so diabolical and so indefensible that one must cloak it as a mere interrogation for intelligence extraction. Not even 911 could sell an open admission to a need to mind control the “terrorists”. Not to the rest of the world at least.
And I should know…They are torturing me and many others even as the ink of the report has yet to dry, in the same mind control torture program that long migrated from contact versions to remote versions that include replacing near-drowning with water, to remotely suffocating someone with nanoparticles. And many more, too gory to put in writing here…
Wanna talk about an existential threat to the US? April 24, 1863, when they published the Lieber Code (Union Army General Order 100), the Union was losing the war and the country was about to break up. It’s about as existentially dangerous as it got in US history. Yet they wrote this:
http://civilwarhome.com/liebercode.htm
Postscript: Franz Lieber, unlike the architects of the torture program and the Iraq fiasco, did have two sons fighting in Union army (one wounded) and a third one killed in action with the Confederates. FWIW.
“Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause… for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country.” – George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775.
Lieber had also been a child soldier himself, and a prisoner for a time.
Yes. He was wounded at Waterloo, resumed his education in Berlin and emigrated later. Worth mentioning that the Lieber Code did become an early influence on law of war and international humanitarian law.
It’s a good code.
Strength and honor ~
@ ondelette, hi! good to see you hear. *if anybody gives you any lip, let me know :)
I have read you at the Guardian and I follow your posts.
You have always something to contribute to any article to which you post. I might not always agree but I agree you have a point that examines the structure of the post.
To put it simply/ I like reading you for many reasons.
Coram N., I’d pay you a ton ( if you asked and if I had the dough ) for you to recommend great books to read, and professional journals, papers etc , that address many of the fundamental challenges facing the country today.
Your URLs here are informative, and they have not gone unnoticed. For the book addict that I am, afflicted with boundless curiosity this is beyond great. I find true nourishment in endlessly stocking up on my information reserves, so this would help.
My thanks in advance…I plan to ask a precious few others here for the favour and I hope all will oblige.
I’ll work up a reasonably short bibliography, which I can pull together from past articles and notes (I’ll have to be careful about hyperlinks, given this site’s quirks in the comments section). Meantime, I highly recommend a 2005 article in The Nation, “Torture and Accountability,” which may still be very much apropos.
http://www.thenation.com/article/torture-and-accountability
I believe this was incorporated into IN THE NAME OF DEMOCRACY: AMERICAN WAR CRIMES IN IRAQ AND BEYOND (Jeremy Brecher, Jill Cutler, Brendan Smith, eds., Metropolitan Books, 2005).
Pat B. — here’s a cursory list of source material; I’m sorry if it’s kind of slapdash but this is culled from much larger bibliographies. This site isn’t friendly to hyperlinks, but a lot of this you can find online — major court cases usually turn up on Wikipedia, and full text linked from there on Findlaw or other sites, and I’m trying only to include cases that have decisive (and often majestic) language. Statutes and documents also easily available online. I certainly don’t need payment, but someone certainly should pay for the torture.
– – –
Some case law, all still current and valid
Chambers v. Florida, 309 U.S. 227 (1940). Torture is illegal under US criminal procedure, not the least because it’s a denial of due process. See also Brown v. Mississippi, 297 U.S. 278, (1936).
Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579 (1952). Definite limits on the President’s Art. II “Commander in Chief” powers. Landmark case, ignored in Yoo/Bybee memoranda. See esp. Robert Jackson’s concurrence.
The Paquete Habana, 175 U.S. 677 (1900). Current customary international law, e.g., “law of war”, jus cogens, is part of U.S. law and is enforceable by U.S. courts. Supremacy clause. See also Murray v. The Schooner Charming Betsy, 6 U.S. (2 Cranch) 64 (1804). U.S. law cannot be interpreted to violate international law; U.S. commanders could be liable to U.S. citizens therefor.
Application of Yamashita, 327 U.S. 1 (1946). Military commissions, trying foreign nationals, can proceed with abridged evidentiary and due process rights. Dissenters objected bitterly to denial of Fifth Amendment due process, and warn that this precedent can ensnare future Presidents and Cabinet members. This case also the origin of the command-responsibility doctrine: commanders are strictly liable for any atrocities committed by members of their command.
ex parte Milligan, 71 U.S. (4 Wall.) 2 (1866). Military could not deny habeas corpus to the courts, nor may it try U.S. citizens when Federal courts are open and available. Silent on foreigners. Still quoted. But see ex parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1 (1942). Supreme Court upheld the military commissions’ legality and jurisdiction over German spies arrested in the U.S. in wartime, but reserved the courts’ right of ultimate review on military commissions and on Constitutional aspects generally, following Milligan.
R v Bow Street Metropolitan Stipendiary Magistrate, Ex Parte Pinochet Ugarte 3 WLR 1,456 (H.L. 1998) also known as Pinochet I or the Pinochet case (also known on Internet as Judgment in re Pinochet, House of Lords (at www dot parliament dot uk). Case involving issues of torture, sovereign immunity and heads of state. Ruling: “ … international law condemned genocide, torture, hostage taking and crimes against humanity (during an armed conflict or in peace time) as international crimes deserving of punishment. Given this state of international law, it seems to me difficult to maintain that the commission of such high crimes may amount to acts performed in the exercise of the functions of a Head of State.”
Filartiga v. Pena-Irala, 630 F.2d 876 (2nd Cir., 1980). Torture under color of official authority ruled as being beyond any norm of international law; applicable here to foreign nationals under the Alien Tort Claims Act but broad language possibly applicable where the defendant(s) are U.S. citizens.
Kadic v. Karadzic, 70 F.3d 232 (2nd Cir., 1995). Murder, rape, torture, arbitrary detention of citizens, whether or not under color of authority, violate the law of war; commanders are required to prevent such acts; all parties must apply to minimum law of war requirements in common Art. 3, Geneva Conventions.
Prosecutor v. Blaskic, Judgment (Trial Chamber, Int’l Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, March 3, 2000), ¶¶ 295, 302. Further development of the Yamashita command-responsibility doctrine — the commander must be in effective control, see also Ford ex rel. Estate of Ford v. Garcia, 289 F.3d 1283 (11th Cir.(Fla.), Apr 30, 2002): applicability of the Yamashita doctrine in U.S. jurisprudence. Prosecutor v. Akayesu (Int’l Crim. Tribunal for Rwanda): civilian officials also liable under this doctrine.
Articles
Sean D. Murphy, Doctrine of Command Responsibility in U.S. Human Rights Cases, AM. J. INT’L L. 719 (July, 2002). Possible repercussions for any U.S. commanders (including Defense Secretary and the President) convening such trials under this doctrine, i.e., Yamashita, which holds commanders strictly accountable.
Michael P. Scharf, The Tools for Enforcing International Criminal Justice in the New Millennium: Lessons from the Yugoslavia Tribunal, 49 DePaul L. Rev. 925 (Summer 2000).
Statutes
Uniform Code of Military Justice (10 USC §§ 801 et seq; /aka/ Art. 1 et seq). Laws governing US military personnel. See esp. Art. 92, Failure to Obey Order or Regulation, Art. 93, Cruelty and Maltreatment, Art. 97, Unlawful Detention. Art. 119, Manslaughter, and Art. 118, Murder. Of possible relevance in a wrongful death in custody. Art. 120, 124, 125, 128 against various forms of physical harm. Of possible relevance where U.S. personnel engage in coercive prison or interrogation business.
Federal law: 18 USC 2340 et seq on torture; 2441 (war crimes); 3261-3267 (jurisdiction on military contractors &c. outside US territory).
Authorization for Use of Military Force Joint Resolution (Sept. 18, 2001), S.J.Res. 23, 50 U.S.C. § 1541, Pub. L. No. 107-40, 115 Stat. 224 (2001).
Some books
Leonard W. Levy, Origins of the Fifth Amendment. Why we have a right against compelled confessions and to due process, something that originated with the Great Charter (2015 is the 800th anniversary of its signing). Also: the principle that the rule of law supersedes the state or even the King. “Magna Charta is such a fellow that will have no sovereign.”
From Nuremberg to The Hague: The Future of International Criminal Justice, Philippe Sands, QC, ed. A series of essays; a good introduction. See also Accountability for Human Rights Atrocities in International Law: Beyond the Nuremberg Legacy, by Steven R. Ratner and Jason S. Abrams.
Websites
Robertfjackson dot org: Robert F. Jackson center. Justice Jackson co-wrote major decisions (Youngstown, Korematsu), was a father of the Nuremberg Charter and a prosecutor at the first Nuremberg trial. Website includes his rulings, speeches and commentary.
Documents and treaties
General Order 100 (the Lieber Code). An early ban on torture, among other things.
Nuremberg Charter (1945). Superior orders and state necessity are not excuses, among other things, and personal liability for war crimes is now established.
Geneva Conventions (1949). See esp. GC III and GC IV.
UN Convention Against Torture
Statute of Rome. Founding charter and law for the Int’l Criminal Court.
You are the best of the best sir.
You are a legend
Neil Young should write a song for you in the same vein as this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40YzTpxrdZQ.
I am an agnostic but can honestly and comfortably say this is the best Xmas present I ever had ! Thank you so much for this reading list. And best to you.
Pat B.
*SSCI Report Reveals CIA Torture Program Originated in Same Department as MKULTRA*
Jeff Kaye. Firedoglake.
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/12/11/ssci-report-reveals-cia-torture-program-originated-in-same-department-as-mkultra/
Anyone interested in psychology and/or brainwashing (via trauma induction or drugs, or both) will find this article very interesting.
Thanks, Cindy – that was quite an article; at least what I read was. I will have to go back and finish it later. Certainly shouldn’t be a surprise that this stuff has *some* relationship to mkultra.
The whole thing is just depraved.
This is off this particular topic, I know, but I have to mention watching part of the “Justice for All” March/rally in Washington, DC.
I saw about 90 minutes on one of the c-spans, so I caught a lot of the speakers. I was so moved by the testimony of the families of the victims of these miscarriages of justice. Michael Brown’s parents didn’t say much; I suppose they were just too emotional- and they seemed sincerely moved by the crowd (as were most of the members of these families). I thought Tamir Rice’s Mother was quite moving; Eric Garner’s wife, too. And Mr. Crawford Jr. gave excellent testimony as did a fellow (Lavar ??? (sorry, sir) who had been shot by a state trooper I think in SC (who has been arrested).
What I found the BEST: The crowd was quite diverse – all races, ages, religions, etc. So many of the speakers called attention to this and called for UNITY and noted we must all work together to right the system.
So maybe there’s a shred of hope; there ARE folks that are beginning to recognize we must not be divided, we must come together to lift us all.
I direct your attention to the Rude Pundit’s last three days of analysis of the torture report; also see Glenn’s new interview at Salon. Meantime, here’s more analysis from the NewsHour.
– – –
ANNOUNCER: This program is made possible by the Military-Industrial Complex, by the Plato Institute, by the Bland Corporation, and by viewers like you! Thank you!
GWEN IFILL (PBS NewsHour): … the continuing controversy over this week’s torture report. For analysis, we have the late Tomás de Torquemada, former Grand Inquisitor, and the late Lavrenti Beria, former chief of Soviet security during the Stalin administration. Welcome gentlemen.
BERIA: Thank you, Gwen.
GWEN: So, the debate continues as to whether torture is effective and saves lives.
TORQUEMADA: I might say that the CIA is using techniques the Holy Office of the Inquisition had pioneered. The tormentum insomniae –
GWEN: Sleep deprivation.
TORQUEMADA: — was most effective for getting heretics to confess. The CIA also used stress positions, water tortures and sexual degradation that we had used as well. I wonder if they studied our methods.
BERIA: The CIA didn’t use the rack or the Iron Maiden.
TORQUEMADA: Ha. We rarely had to at the Holy Office. Sleep and water were our weapons mostly, all we needed. That, at least, did work, at least if you wanted them to say what you wanted them to say.
GWEN: What about valuable intelligence?
TORQUEMADA: Well, we kept finding more and more heretics.
BERIA: We did reveal a number of conspiracies against the State: Trotskyite, Trotskyite-Zinovievite, Trotskyite-Zinovievite-Bukharinite, Trotskyite-Kamenevite-Zinovievite-Leftist-Counter-Revolutionary Bloc – it was amazing how many plots we found that would have destroyed the Soviet Union.
TORQUEMADA: The Soviet Union was ultimately destroyed, was it not?
BERIA: Not on my watch. Although, after my accusers caught up with me, I can well appreciate how Gen. Hayden and George Tenet are now feeling, not to mention Dick Cheney. Torture does make you unpopular later on. And vulnerable if someone else is Number One.
GWEN: But was it justifiable?
BERIA: We thought it was. Or at least that’s what we told our public.
TORQUEMADA: We thought it was. But then again, we were working for God Himself, and it doesn’t get better than that. Does your CIA have that excuse?
GWEN: (cough) And now we turn to the current unpleasantness in Syria, where Fred de San Lazaro has a report from inside rebel lines. Fred? Fred? Are you still there?
So faved (if I could), brilliant and hilarious!
Jonathan Turley explains why the CIA will torture again:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/12/10/torture-report-laws-international-prosecution-immunity-restraints-cia-truth-column/20166711/
Maybe the most concise analysis on Brennan’s ‘unknowable’ truths of torture’s efficacy I’ve read to date. Turley can get to the point as quickly as anyone … Thx. for posting.
The Rude Pundit has an interesting point:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-torture-report-game-and-how-we.html
The ‘Rude One’ Lives..
re: Janat Gul – “..how he was renditioned to a black site in Romania, how Condoleezza Rice her very own self signed off on his “enhanced interrogation..”
[snip]
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/taking-responsibility-torture
There’s also this in Rudy’s column, today.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/12/thanks-dick-cheney-for-incriminating.html
New surveillance legislation that grants unlimited access to communications of every American passed on voice vote and opposed by Rep. Justin Amash:
http://www.infowars.com/congress-passes-bill-which-grants-unlimited-access-to-communications-of-every-american/
New post by Andrew Sullivan on terror existentialism, which, among other things, asserts that Jose Padilla was taken in because of a satirical Internet article.
Good reading.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/10/cia-truth-torture-existential-threat/
Erratum: Sullivan link at
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/11/imaginationland-revisited/
Mea culpa.
Oh this is good:
Obama Strongly Against Torture…and Prosecuting Torturers (see what Obama did there?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4IqssbN9_g
Young Turks has some good questions:
Young Turks – “It seems moral to some people because of a combination of fear and prejudice, the idea that it’s ok to do anything to this person because he and people like him might attack us or because he doesn’t worship the same god I do, he doesn’t have the same skin colour I do. Those are the sorts of things that allow Americans to say it’s ok to do anything you want to these people”
Young Turks – “we know torture doesn’t work, but let’s say it did work and saved lives, who can we torture? So for example if we can torture Megyn Kelly, and that results in saving lives, should we torture Megyn Kelly?”
18 US Code § 3:
But it didn’t save lives, on the contrary…it is creating more enemies. Just like israel, spinning a web of lies to cover their misdeeds.
Good article:
““I don’t care what we did”: What Nicolle Wallace’s rant reveals about America’s torture problem
…It was “asinine” and “dangerous” to claim that systematic torture “makes America less great,” the person who’d just implied god supports torture said. All that matters, Wallace argued, is whether torture “help[s] us kill people who want to kill us.” But liberals, she complained, want to focus on “political correctness” — i.e., not committing war crimes.”
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/09/i_dont_care_what_we_did_what_nicolle_wallaces_rant_reveals_about_americas_torture_problem/
Americans Involved in Torture Can Be Prosecuted Abroad, Analysts Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/11/us/politics/americans-involved-in-torture-can-be-prosecuted-abroad-analysts-say.html
quote:”But someone higher up on the foodchain had that draft killed. The truth was simply too much of a threat.”unquote
Indeed. The truth is always the threat..to the Secret Team. Col. Prouty knew it from 1947 on.
quote”The Cold War was the most expensive war in history. R. Buckminister Fuller wrote in Grunch of Giants:
We can very properly call World War I the million dollar war and World War II the billion dollar war and World War III (Cold War) the trillion dollar war.
The power structure that kept the Cold War at that level of cost and intensity had been spearheaded by the Secret Team and its multinational covert operations, to wit:
This is the fundamental game of the Secret Team. They have this power because they control secrecy and secret intelligence and because they have the ability to take advantage of the most modern communications system in the world, of global transportation systems, of quantities of weapons of all kinds, and when needed, the full support of a world-wide U.S. military supporting base structure. They can use the finest intelligence system in the world, and most importantly, they have been able to operate under the canopy of an assumed, ever-present enemy called “Communism.” It will be interesting to see what “enemy” develops in the years ahead. It appears that “UFO’s and Aliens” are being primed to fulfill that role for the future. To top all of this, there is the fact that the CIA, itself, has assumed the right to generate and direct secret operations.
–L. Fletcher Prouty
Alexandria, VA 1997
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/STpreface97.html
And they will do everything in their power to KEEP it secret…
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/STauthorsN.html
See if you can spot CNN’s Wolf Blitzer strategy on torture:
How Not To Cover Torture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz0zs4HxS30
Blitzer responded, “But if Americans are killed as a result of the report… I assume you would feel guilty about that.”
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/is-there-a-question-feinstein-gets-testy-with-blitzer-over-torture-report/
NEURO-LINGUISTIC PROGRAMMING IN THE CORPORATE MEDIA
Many People, such as Wolf, are trained in NEURO-LINGUISTIC PROGRAMMING.
It can be used to deceive, control, manipulate, distract, confuse and to distort the truth.
If you don’t believe this, check out this video and see how it is done.
The TV is a platform for intense propaganda for agendas unknown to the public.
It is done in ways that are nor realized or seen by the general public.
It is pervasive and insidious and does not in any way serve the public good.
If we are to ever regain our real freedom in America the current corporate media mind control tools must be dismantled and honest people allowed to provide the truth from all those different perspectives without obstruction.
Check this out ……. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAi0_5db9X4
“…saved lives.” says CIA
This is the CIA’s reason for all they have done. What exactly does this mean? It is a very broad statement. It could mean many things. It could be used many ways. It could be a cleaver way to escape real investigation. BECAUSE – Who among us would not want to save lives? Americas are good people and good people want to save lives. It is implied that those lives we are saving are Americans. If you didn’t agree with the CIA and you didn’t want to save lives you could be discounted as not a good American and maybe even worse. IT is a a game of psychology they are playing upon us.
Do you like being played with like children by our CIA?
Americans want to be the GOOD guys, because on the whole we ARE a very GOOD and caring people.
We need this spirit of GOODNESS to prevail.
We need the GOODNESS of the American people to lead us forward.
We need to embrace who we are as GOOD AMERICANS and not allow ourselves to be manipulated any longer.
Americans need to voice their human GOODNESS and let the government know without a doubt that we will not stand for this twisted behavior by anyone in our government!!!
Somebody please whisper in the ear of racist republican members of Congress that they now have valid grounds to impeach President Obama – for his obstruction in the investigation and prosecution of known war criminals. They can then spend years investigating and prosecuting his war crimes. The only catch, they’ll also have to quit being apologists and providing cover for the crimes of the Bush / Cheney administration…
Until Bush, Cheney, and Hayden are brought to justice this report is just so many destroyed trees. If they were subjected to Nuremberg justice, Bush and Cheney would probably stretch a rope for their actions; Hayden maybe not. The sad part today is that Obama is adding his name to the list of terrorist US Presidents. And that so many Americans will follow orders and easily become such sadists. And that parts of the main stream media will still give these terrorists plenty of air time.
So many parallels with the establishment and actions of the Third Reich that one reels in disgust.
Not a surprise…
From Jeffrey Kaye of Firedoglake:
“SSCI Report Reveals CIA Torture Program Originated in Same Department as MKULTRA”
By: Jeff Kaye Thursday December 11, 2014 12:47 am
But one revelation has gone notably unreported. The man associated with implementing the most brutal part of the interrogation program was drawn out of the same division of the CIA that some decades ago had been responsible for the notorious MKULTRA program. As a CIA history of OTS explains, MKULTRA “involved Agency funding for the testing and use of chemical and biological agents and other means of controlling or modifying human behavior” (p. 19). …
Thanks to Jeffrey Kaye for all his good work.
One of these days, no thanks to most, what’s transpiring on U.S. soil will be known to all.
From Jeffrey Kaye’s posting (linked in my previous comment): “The SSCI report has helped bring the origins of the CIA post-9/11 interrogation/torture program into even sharper focus. But the failure of the press to even notice, with rare exception, the role of OTS, or its history in clandestine actions, including MKULTRA work, means that a full exploration of CIA’s torture program cannot take place.”
They FAILED and should be forced to pay with their futures.
I commend Dan Froomkin for this article. Indeed the Intercept on whole is to be praised for the condemnation of atrocities committed by the administrations of Bush and by proxy Obama.
Forces outside the elected representation of democracy are seen at play with the life of others. Life is viewed by some as the play things of power by the elite.
This elite exists and commands the power behind the throne of the Presidency.
The elected ruler of the USA is held to sway by the Powers that Be (H/T lyra).
There exists a separate reality not knowingly known by most. This power dictates the values of neo cons and neo liberals at their highest levels.
The public who believes in the R or D is deceived by press conceived by that power.
Vote till all is the same , vote till all is a game, vote and be deceived by the fame of deception
Laurie Anderson
“When justice is gone there is always force.”
Speak up citizens and revolt for you have been played the fool..
Strike and die on your feet not on your knees.
These are the end days of truth, hence forth only lies rule.
“They viciously brutalized people, some of them entirely innocent, and described what they were doing as an art and a science.”
And this report is just a tidy version of the dirty act, to use for internal US politics…! And I thought “V for Vendetta” movie was a fiction! STUPID ME!!
Are we ever gonna see rise of the V (among the victims) in this real life show?
There can be no justice in a society that holds the value of injustice as just.
No euphemisms can distract the reader or hearer from the truth “of a lie is a lie”.
President Kennedy in his speech ” The President and the Press” Waldolf =Astoria 1963
states;
“No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary. I am not asking your newspapers to support the Administration, but I am asking your help in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people. For I have complete confidence in the response and dedication of our citizens whenever they are fully informed.
I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers– I welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its errors; for as a wise man once said: “An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” We intend to accept full responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out when we miss them.
Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed– and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the First (emphasized) Amendment– the only business in America specifically protected by the Constitution– not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and sentimental, not to simply “give the public what it wants”–but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crises and our choices, to lead, mold educate and sometimes even anger public opinion.
This means greater coverage and analysis of international news– for it is no longer far away and foreign but close at hand and local. It means greater attention to improved understanding of the news as well as improved transmission. And it means, finally, that government at all levels, must meet its obligation to provide you with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits of national security…
http://www.samueljohnson.com/refuge.html
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Boswell tells us that Samuel Johnson made this famous pronouncement that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel on the evening of April 7, 1775. He doesn’t provide any context for how the remark arose, so we don’t really know for sure what was on Johnson’s mind at the time.
However, Boswell assures us that Johnson was not indicting patriotism in general, only false patriotism.
It’s happened and it’s still happening. It’s happened to me and it’s obvious that those in relative proximity of those who like to watch and listen are conscience deprived and are more than worthy of ridicule on this comment stream. It’s called being a hypocrite; and no, The Intercept does not welcome your remarks. It’s common sense, you are slowing down the ability of people to make informed decisions and to think. That is the opposite of The Intercept and yeah, it pales in comparison. It’s a new low, it’s obvious, and to put it another way it makes all of your intelligence look retarded. Keep posting though, it’s motivating the writers and maintainers to keep current and it’s making the establishment itself look like gold. There’s no hope, it’s obvious that the truth is winning and that it’s an accurate measurement; and yeah, thank you for the lack of informing the public and coming out into the open immediately after the fact. The liking to watch part is equally horrendous and egregious as your intelligent comments are intelligible to people who are building up rapport and communicating about the articles that the writers are doing themselves. I guess they had an argument; it ended up lacking in conscience and was interrupting the obvious. Because most people read the article for the simple mission of common sense and don’t immediately check the logs for updates in data differences, it’s called being cozy with the state. The war is over; people don’t like to be watched and it’s obvious that your lives are jokes. The war was, you are messing with intelligent discussion and that it is obvious. You are making the state and the establishment itself look like gold though; yeah, it’s obvious guys. You are cozy with corruption and your posts are annoying. Stay away from predators, it’s hard to do when they’re in the thick and they disallow intelligence in and of itself in order to prevent breathing. The torture is real, it’s obvious, and yeah it will be real hard to spot who is defending people in the United States and worldwide to people who have human breath and have the capacity to think. Let’s start with people who reply with anger to an intelligent and thoughtful post. Basically, you want a war? To have a real war it requires a conscience. That will end the war, and it’s obvious to maintainers of the site you are corrupt. Count to 3, and demonstrate you have talent. That’s all. Torture happened, still happening it’s obvious and it’s threatening people’s ability to work. There was a counter-argument, I guess. It required criminality and felonious acts to establish their reality. The conscience part was obviously lacking, it’s the requirement for war.
Bill Moyers show from 1987 was EXACTLY the same story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHet9H6ZTLs
Well, at least one media outlet on the planet called Craig Murray the former Ambassador to Uzbekistan from the UK to tell his side of story on CIA black sites for torture in Uzbekistan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY2zhgc9Ir4
In a nutshell:
we didn’t do it
it wasn’t torture
and anyway, it worked
and we were just following orders
I doubt anyone of importance will be held accountable. The U.S. has the attention span of a toddler. And, regardless of evidence or proof, a large number of U.S. citizens will still denounce that we actually “tortured” people – at best they might admit, ‘it was only done to save U.S. lives…!’ God bless the United States of Awesomeness, err, I mean America!
The Michael Brown incident (murder/manslaughter) was a public execution (without a doubt, unless I need glasses and a hearing aid) – was caught on video – yet nothing was done, zero accountability! Ferguson, (minus video) was likely a very similar situation (public execution) – we won’t know what happened (a lot of shots fired, though!) because: zero accountability!
Great article, keep up the good work!
DW.yipman@yahoo.com
Oh, and while mentioning Jose Padilla in this article, it’s worth mentioning that Padilla was also subjected to similar torture, er, enhanced unpleasantness, and it took place not overseas but during his stay at the US navy brig at Charleston, SC. It’s not clear if he produced any intelligence, but the case of Padilla v. Yoo (9th Cir.) is a matter of record, and Mr. Yoo was absolved by the 9th Circuit with the help of the Obama Dept of Justice. Just to reinforce the point, the US already has tortured a US citizen on US soil, and got away with it as a matter of public record, so that precedent has come and gone.
This “effectiveness” debate is ridiculous. They repeated it again tonight on the NewsHour, and again overlooked the basic point. So what? Let’s just imagine that, let’s just pretend, that post-9/11 did work, did get good intel. Does that now justify doing it again if we get scared enough or pretend that the threat is serious enough? Does that now mean that we’ll know who to do it to, next time? We already know that we tortured at least 26 people on the basis of mistaken identity.
Oh, and if it ever “saves lives”, we have to balance it against the case of Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, the fellow we tortured until he told us that Iraq had provided chemical/biological weapons training to AQ, a claim repeated by Colin Powell to justify the invasion. That cost us over 4,000 US military fatalities.
And in any event, even if it works, it’s still illegal. No excuses, no derogation. It’s about time we dropped this obtuse line of discussion.
“it’s still illegal. No excuses, no derogation. It’s about time we dropped this obtuse line of discussion.”
Yeah, that’s the critical issue they’re trying to obscure………. and do away with. Either by over-focusing on the utility of torture or by highlighting the extent of shared responsibility.
Watching the spin effort has been interesting. Certain parties in the CIA (and their wealthy contract colleagues) were given a tremendous amount of time to craft a well-honed “response” that went prime time while Sen. Feinstein was still speaking on the floor of the Senate. Their message was swiftly injected into public discussion. In under 24 hours, a small but loud assortment of men boldly claimed that the (redaction-neutered) report was riven with lies. They were, of course, conveniently free of present duty to the government or the public. And they sure as hell didn’t go into particulars. On the rare occasions when one of our newsreaders asked them about proof……….. they retreated behind a dainty purdah screen of “classified”. I get a kick out of their real aggrieved tone — as though they’d had no choice re their course of action. It’s as though they had no peers who objected — no men who went off-record tearing their hair out — to talk with guys like Risen about matters.
Their best hook is the truth — the Congress was derelict throughout these years. They ignored obvious bad conduct; they often encouraged it. But, I’d love to have a count of the imaginary “liberals” who want Congressmen and Senators to get off scot free while career foreign service or security personnel take the fall. I think there are a few hundred sycophants in D.C. who feel that way; the rest of us………… not at all.
“it’s still illegal. No excuses, no derogation.”
Whether torture works or not is completely irrelevant. The point is to prevent government authorities from abusing their power. No government on earth can guarantee its citizens that every single individual in jail is really guilty. Innocent people do get arrested and even get on death row! So, today they are torturing a terrorist they caught with his suicide vest in Kandahar, tomorrow they will be torturing an accountant they “believe” might be involved in a corporation fraud. And again, this report is worthless because those who were responsible for torture are not prosecuted. This is an outrage!! Innocent people were detained, tortured and you have Dick Cheney saying the report is full of crap! That tells you they will do it again since they got away with it!
I must admit that I like all pictures of Hayden that TI has published so far. He has a body(finger) language that is more revealing than his statements. I guess what he shows here is a squeezed sign of victory (V) which means we were almost there but not really. Or some one who says yes but actually means NO.:-)
Keep it up lads. You are doing a great service in this coverage of the Torture practices of this and the previous (Bush) Government.
The top people need to be held accountable. That includes the president.
I swear to God the Islamic State and Qaidatu AlJihad (aka AlQaida) are wronging themselves by treating captives from Americans with mercy. It’s actually from the laws of Islam to treat POW with mercy, but why do they treat them with mercy if they’re litrally killing Muslims by torture!!
In Quran: “And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive, [Saying], “We feed you only for the countenance of Allah. We wish not from you reward or gratitude. Indeed, We fear from our Lord a Day austere and distressful.” (Ayah 8,9,10 – Sura 76)
And the Prophet said when he had POWs: “Don’t make them suffer the heat of the sun and the heat of the battle, let them rest to cool off”.
I understand what Islam says, but day and night, we see more and more Muslims being tortured by this terrorist regime of the United Savages, and yet they wonder why people get “radiclized”! This act should be reciprocated. Merely killing prisoners after living a life in prison more convenient than most Mujehideen (Islamic fighters) in the field is almost going about the border of unfairness. Though Allah knows best.
I’ve never been a supporter of the desfigurement and desformation of Islam to be a form of a religion of weakness rather than honor, so Islam does permit limited levels of torture only if the prisoner is known surely to possess information that he’s denying. Even that torture is limited by not cutting the vicitim or humiliating him or damaging him severely. It’s limited to mere hitting by ones own power without the use of any tools. I’ve never heard IS or AQ even do that.. which is disrespectful and humiliating to those Muslims being tortured by the US.
(I can’t respond to probable replies, since I won’t be taking these security percautions just to comment again. I live in an oppressive country and commenting against a terrorist country. That’s not good in itself.)
Does torture “work”? Well, it depends what you want it to do.
It isn’t reliable in terms of “getting information,” but it is supremely effective in “scaring the hell out of people.”
Do drone strikes “work”? Well, it depends what you want them to do.
They aren’t reliable in terms of combatting terrorism, but they are supremely effective in “scaring the hell out of people.”
Does police abuse and murder (and prison abuse by authorities) “work”? Well, it depends what you want it to do.
It isn’t reliable in terms of reducing crime, but it is supremely effective in “scaring the hell out of people.”
Does bulk surveillance (and other NSA/establishment privacy invasions) “work’? Well, it depends what you want it to do.
It isn’t reliable in terms of focusing on and thwarting actual threats, but it is supremely effective in “scaring the hell out of people.”
The (elite that controls the) establishment’s goal is not to produce a healthy society, it is to instill fear in anyone who has questions or grievances regarding the behavior of United States “authorities.” Frightened people, even if genuinely appalled by the authorities’ behavior, will self-censor and not express their opinions.
With each revelation of wrongdoing, from torture to drone strikes to police abuse to the surveillance state to securities fraud etc… the message is blunt:
THE ESTABLISHMENT WILL BREEZE PAST THIS, THE RULING CLASS WILL NOT BE DISCIPLINED BY THE LAW, WILL NOT BE REINED IN BY THE PEOPLE, WILL NOT OBEY THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS.
Notice that with all revelations there is NEVER severe legal redress for the state, or the corporations controlling it. This only entrenches the corruption, as well as mocking any real attempts to seek accountability. Moreover it only makes people more afraid to speak out.
It is not enough to expose wrongdoing in high places. It must be prosecuted. If not, all potential whistleblowers and activists will ultimately succumb to conformism (with corruption) because the decent cause is demonstrably hopeless. This conclusion is what the elite wants the people of the world to accept.
That US authorities monitor, abuse and murder without fear of reprisal is actually something the establishment loves to “get out there,” I reckon, for it shows their reach is vicious and operates with impunity regardless of what they do, and this apprehension instills self-stifling fear in anyone with even the mildest anti-establishment sentiments, and this pacifies many potential “upstarts” at home at the same time as inflaming the (useful) anger of actual “militants” already enraged by Western arrogance and impunity overseas.
So yeah, torture “works.” The abuse of US authorities “works.” It “works” because it isn’t punished, and it makes people outside the establishment afraid.
Re: Cindy 10 Dec 2014 at 8:10 pm
Very well said Cindy!
More of our journalists and educators need to “drill” deeper into the fundamental causes corrupting our government, and providing that information as a preface to their “stories” about the outcomes of ill-conceived policies and practices facilitated by those who can forthrightly be shown to be those “domestic” enemies our Constitution requires us to be protected from.
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
Nice comment Cindy. You still can look at the bright side, climate change may bring them theirs. The arrogant fucks probably think they and their families can live out eternity in an hepa filtered underground cell on Monsanto’s canned product – but I’m not sure that they’ll find the good life there. Although in that scenario its a bit of a rub that the rest of us get screwed too.
Actually, they do have a plan from what I’ve heard…1 billion people and the arrogant fucks get to live to 300 hundred years or more. “They’ve had a very good ride and they don’t want to die”, actual quote. Of course, the justice system could hasten their death and save 6 billion lives, including their own.
Just to clarify, I heard the “live forever” part form George Tenet’s supposed friend. These groups/families are heavily invested in Pharma/Biotechs. Many of the ghouls running the world, who would normally be begging God for forgiveness on their deathbed and donating money to charitable causes, are running around spy…in their 80’s and 90’s, still ruling the world.
I only heard about the 1 billion population number later, as a solution to climate change and resource wars. I don’t know how true that is…
We could definitely better allocate our scientific resources, research activities and political energy toward the betterment/continuation of mankind…regardless of the prognosis.
“So yeah, torture “works.” The abuse of US authorities “works.” It “works” because it isn’t punished, and it makes people outside the establishment afraid.”
Very well stated Cindy. There simply has to be some form of legal reconciliation and profound change in the unbalanced paradigm of power in order for us to ever consider ourselves a representation democracy in any way, shape, or form.
” Greed can’t again lead the way. We’ve taken that route before with terrible consequences for this nation and its people.” – Johanna Siguroardottir, Former Prime Minister of Iceland
Just more PR & propaganda, censorship, & cover-up by the US Government, CYA (Cover Your A$$) Intelligence community that will continue its lying campaign to the American public by using the following tactics as quoted by Joseph Goebbels during the 1930’s & 1940’s.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent,for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” AND
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
Prosecute all those involved in this criminal atrocity ! !
(1) How much of the CIA’s doings had to do with the realization that its own incompetence contributed to 9/11? (2) How does the government manage to find the people depraved enough to do the torturing?
There were many that were excited by 9/11, since it gave them a license wanted to do and what they had been planning for quite some time, everybody got bigger budgets, no questions asked.
We had two huge upheavals 9/11 and the financial crash of 2008. I know for a fact in 2008, people had prior knowledge in Spring 2008. Maybe there were people, let’s just say for fun Cheney, Carlyle Group (the Bushes were large investors, Carlyle now owns Booz Allen Hamilton who employed Snowden) who knew something was in the works in 2001 and did nothing. Could be, could just be speculative daydreaming…I’m an artist. Who knows? We don’t know do we? We only know we no longer live in a democracy, since average people are scraping by for shelter, food, education and even if they are employed, they’re terrified of losing their job. We know, people made million/billions off of 9/11, the wars and the financial crash. And we know that NO ONE in power ever goes to jail…EVER.
They actually brag to me that they will never ever go to jail and they can do whatever the fuck they want.
Trickle-down torture.
Actually, I’ve heard they will torture/kill the kids of the uber-wealthy as well…if they get out of line, not just the children of government agents that are supposedly off limits. So really there is no rule of law.
Yep, but unlike trickle-down economics, trickle-down torture — at least here at home — works with amazing, unparalleled precision. It’s a pity all government programs can’t operate so smoothly.
Unfortunately our money and resources are directed toward all the wrong things. Recalling another conversation with the supposed friend of George Tenet, not only can the wealthy hope to live indefinitely, other people’s life spans can be artificially shortened through a variety of means. The stress placed on a target, perhaps the Directed Energy Weapons targeting, frays the DNA. Just a little thing, George’s friend let slip, after his 5th beer. The same people doing research on keeping…let’s just say someone like David Rockefeller (99) alive indefinitely, are also doing research on how to artificially shorten an otherwise healthy lifespan on all of us. Isn’t that great? Don’t you feel like America is protecting you from the ‘terrorists”?
But I suppose I should count myself lucky that I haven’t had a rectal feeding…yet.
As Orwell put it, “the object of torture… becomes torture.”
Seems like someone over at CIA fucked up big time and let the document get into the hands of the committee. This was a self inflected wound to the deep state and a deep one, but remember how big they are and realize this may not be something they can’t over come in time.
What amazes me is that now they are just conducting business in public as an authoritarian police state without even a pretense of trying to hide anything.
Evil:
Psychologically destroying dogs through systematic torture.
Uniquely Evil:
Building a torture program around the work of said dog torturer and then rewarding him with a $31milion no-bid contract.
http://www.salon.com/2010/10/14/army_contract_seligman/
I think Martin Seligman , father of learned helplessness , is an ageless vicious scientist. He could as well be a good servant of the race biological institute between 1900-1960 and has a lot in common with IS jihadi terrorists regarding different application of animal torture on human being.
It just proofs the inhuman nature of the abusive science , manipulative brainwashing on one side and forced helplessness on the other side.
Senator Udall excoriates CIA Director Brennan and soundly criticizes President Obama for not living up to some of his important pledges and Executive Orders.
Sen. Udall — for the public record on the Senate floor — clearly labels the enhanced interrogation techniques as torture beginning at the 8:40 to 9:00 mark of his 47 minute YouTube video ( which I encourage you to watch, requiring only about 85 MB of bandwidth on the lowest video resolution of 144p).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVvkY8D9oOY&feature=youtu.be
All of these references to the law and legal opinions and staff attorneys and not one mention of the Bar Association? It is the ONE and ONLY group that is deeply intrenched into all 3 branches of government and then-some. Anyone who thinks the Bar had nothing to do with any of this “Torture” stuff is lying to themselves!! The Bar advises on anything and everything and punishes members for all sorts of things. Remember Clinton lost his ability to practice law in Arkansas because he lied about Monica. I don’t hear the Bar going after any of the attorneys for their war crimes.
The Bar Association, we need to press them the same as we press the figure heads in our government. I gaurantee the Bar has been pulling some of the puppet strings!!!!!!
Why is torture always presented as the most egregious transgression, while MURDER seems to have occurred during these CIA ‘interrogation’ sessions?
“The interrogation and detention regime implemented by the U.S. resulted in the deaths of over 100 detainees in U.S. custody — at least. While some of those deaths were the result of ”rogue” interrogators and agents, many were caused by the methods authorized at the highest levels of the Bush White House, including extreme stress positions, hypothermia, sleep deprivation and others.”
http://www.salon.com/2009/06/30/accountability_7/
More from Glenn’s article:
“The record could not be clearer regarding the fact that we caused numerous detainee deaths, many of which have gone completely uninvestigated and thus unpunished. Instead, the media and political class have misleadingly caused the debate to consist of the myth that these tactics were limited and confined. As Gen. Barry McCaffrey recently put it:
We should never, as a policy, maltreat people under our control, detainees. We tortured people unmercifully. We probably murdered dozens of them during the course of that, both the armed forces and the C.I.A.
Journalist and Human Rights Watch researcher John Sifton similarly documented that “approximately 100 detainees, including CIA-held detainees, have died during U.S. interrogations, and some are known to have been tortured to death.”
The Washington Post doesn’t call torture, torture, they use:
“brutal interrogation program,” “harsh techniques,” “excruciating interrogation methods,” “brutal measures,” “harsh interrogation techniques,” “coercive techniques,” “previously undisclosed cases of abuse,” “harsh treatment” and “enhanced interrogation techniques.”
…because says the Post, “the use of the term ‘torture’ became contentious,”
I’m wondering, how is the use of all those euphemisms, not contentious? After all, the Post is responding to the the controversy over their use of the euphemisms, something they wouldn’t do, if the practice were not contentious? The post has actively decided, when confronted by a Government that prefers euphemisms on one side, and a public on the other side that prefers, well, the proper use of the English language, to come down on the side of euphemisms. How is that not contentious?
http://fair.org/blog/2014/12/09/washington-post-does-not-call-it-torture-when-we-torture/
This is good, from “Hend” on twitter:
Hend @LibyaLiberty
“Does torture work?” as a question needs to be put in the bin with “Is slavery commercially feasible?” & “Can genocide help overpopulation?”
..And I agree with this:
Maher Arar @ArarMaher
CIA torture, indiscriminate NSA spying, killing black ppl at will tell you what kind of country America has become.
Andrew Sullivan, again. Earlier today (link below):
“From now on, the US is a human rights violator of the first order under international law, a rogue state that has explicitly tortured innocent people and never held anyone legally responsible. I know that sounds terribly harsh. But how is it untrue? And to refuse to prosecute war crimes is to condone war crimes. Not burglary or robbery – but the gravest crimes against humanity that we can imagine. The perpetrators walk among us, many still in the CIA, and some holding presidential Medals of Freedom. Whatever absurd self-congratulations about this report, we should be in no doubt that this makes us no better in this respect than some South American junta before the transition to democracy.
“And the fact that we are the most powerful country on earth makes this about much more than just us. It casts a dark and long shadow over humanity. It makes torture everywhere more likely, and more pervasive. It legitimizes evil. It removes from us any moral standing when it comes to Americans being tortured by these very same techniques – as they already have been in Syria, and as they will be in the future. When an American prisoner is tortured by an enemy power in the future, we will have no grounds to complain. Can we just face up to that instead of engaging in so much avoidance and denial? We didn’t just break Iraq; we broke the very structure of basic human rights that this country fought two world wars to establish.”
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/10/why-arent-the-torturers-in-jail/
It’s kind of a sad indictment of American news, but this conveys the reality of it better that Wolf Blitzer ever could:
“After years of delays amid concern that releasing the information could incite violence against Americans, the Senate Intelligence Committee published a report Tuesday detailing the CIA’s use of often brutal enhanced interrogation techniques on terrorist suspects in the years after the September 11 attacks. Here are some key revelations of the report:
Tortured detainees often provided information vital to national security such as groans and hallucinatory shrieks
Interrogators were poorly trained, with many barely acquainted with proper, humane techniques for dragging people up and down stairs until they passed out
CIA physicians subjected many prisoners to a process known as “rectal hydration” or “rectal feeding,” which really isn’t as bad as you’re imagining, unless you happen to be picturing the most humiliating and invasive scenario conceivable. In that case, you’re pretty much right on the money.
Many U.S. officials were exposed to prolonged sleep deprivation for days at a time while trying to rationalize the moral atrocities they had overseen”
http://www.theonion.com/articles/revelations-of-the-declassified-cia-torture-report,37638/
Yes indeed, a tragic and powerful indictment of American news that The Onion’s — and The Daily Show’s for that matter — “satire” often contains more truth than major media outlets.
Un-frickin’-believable.
And though this isn’t directly related, until recently, one of the ways I followed the coverage of the coverage of the news was by following Google’s Realtime news coverage, and I really liked the realtime graph that charted the ups and downs of the coverage of most larger news topics over a certain period of time. By constantly referring to this chart, I felt like I could somewhat gauge what news topics were being showcased by major media, what topics were being buried, what important topics didn’t even hit the radar, what “news” might be around the corner, etc.
But I haven’t been able to find Google’s Realtime graph, nor have I been able to get any information about what happened to it. Does anyone know where the Google Realtime graph went and/or any other similar tools that I could replace the realtime graph with?
It’s always interesting to see what interests people. According to Google Trends, the CIA Torture Report came in fifteenth place in total searches on Tuesday, only four places behind Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.
1 Cam Newton
2 Victoria S Secret Fashion Show 2014
3 Pirate Bay
4 Charlie Hunnam
5 Ariana Grande
6 Colbert Report
7 Mary Ann Mobley
8 Donna Goudeau
9 Alessandra Ambrosio
10 J Cole
11 RUDOLPH THE RED NOSED REINDEER
12 thepiratebay
13 Jessica Chambers
14 Avril Lavigne
15 CIA torture report
I came back here hoping to see if anyone had any info on what happened to Google’s Realtime News chart. Darn, no luck.
And this Google Trends is some really scary shit, Benito. Boy, I am really “out of the loop.”
Lets release the full report. Get the truth out!
Even the “full report” would not be the TRUTH!
I want the truth, the WHOLE truth and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
As an American citizen and taxpayer I am DEMANDING this….NOW. Not four years from now. NOW.
Ha! This CIA report is a joke — the real story that the for-profit press missed is that no one is going to jail for these detention & torture programs. Read here for a more progressive take: http://winstonsdiary.com/2014/12/09/the-real-story-on-the-senate-torture-report-no-one-is-going-to-jail/
“Mark Udall Says The CIA Is Still Lying”
Posted: 12/10/2014 1:37 pm EST
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/10/mark-udall-cia-lying_n_6302894.html
Not a surprise to some…
“The CIA is still lying about its post-9/11 torture program, even in the face of a devastating Senate report, Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) said Wednesday.
In a dramatic floor speech during his final month in the Senate, Udall said the CIA’s lies have been aided and abetted by President Barack Obama’s White House and called on the president to “purge” his administration of CIA officials who were involved in the interrogation program detailed in the report.
“It’s bad enough to not prosecute these officials, but to reward and promote them is incomprehensible,” Udall said. “The president needs to purge his administration.”
Udall said the lies are “not a problem of the past,” citing the CIA’s response to the 6,000-page torture report. He said the agency took seven months to write a formal comment after the Senate Intelligence Committee approved the report in December 2012 — and when it did, it was full of lies and half-truths meant to justify the agency’s actions.
“The CIA’s formal response to this study under Director Brennan clings to false narratives about the CIA’s effectiveness when it comes to the CIA’s detention and interrogation program. It includes many factual inaccuracies, defends the use of torture and attacks the committee’s oversight and findings,” Udall said.
“I believe its flippant and dismissive tone represents the CIA’s approach to oversight, and the White House’s willingness to let the CIA to do whatever it likes — even if it’s actively undermining the president’s stated policies.”
Udall said a never-released internal CIA report begun under the agency’s previous director, Leon Panetta, in fact supported many of the Senate’s findings. But, he said, the CIA sought to bury it — even taking the inflammatory step of spying on Senate staffers to find out how they gained access to it. That surveillance was the subject of a CIA inspector general report that found the agency had acted improperly.
The only solution for the CIA, Udall said, is a culture change, which should start with the departure of Brennan. Udall previously called for his resignation in July.
“While the study clearly shows that the CIA detention and interrogation program itself was deeply flawed, the deeper, more endemic problem lies in the CIA, assisted by a White House, that continues to try to cover up the truth,” Udall said.
Brennan has defended the agency and criticized the Senate report, claiming it provided “an incomplete and selective picture of what occurred.”” …
Obama’s administration is peppered with neocons, and he is one himself, according to Bill Kristol. So obviously he has been blackmailed by people in league with the intelligence community (who gathered the dirt on him) and is not going to do anything to hold his blackmailers to account. Udall should start reading the redacted names into the record–to complete the “incomplete and selective picture”–until they squeal.
The ‘Ace-in-the-Hole’ to exposing the torturers to possible prosecution is Senator Mark Udall, if he continues down the path of calling for CIA Brennan’s removal and then finally releasing the full ‘torture report’. He has the opportunity to become a bone fide statesman for the ages and history books if he persists.
Quote:
“The CIA is lying,” the Colorado Democrat said on the Senate floor Wednesday.
End Quote
http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/sen-mark-udall-bashing-cia-reveals-classified-findings-on-interrogation-program-20141210
“If you don’t stick to your values when they’re being tested, they’re not values: they’re hobbies.”
? Jon Stewart
(I’m still trying to find comparable quotes from “real” American news people but they all seem to be busy asking the “torture program architects” …questions such as ”by releasing the report….will the senate have blood on its hands?”)
“American news people”
Either complicit or cowards.
Having gone on for 13 years now we must include indefinite detention as a form of torture. Try to imagine 13 years dragging on with no end in sight. No charges, no trial date. No hope and we won’t even let them even die on their own terms because it would make us culpable and would damage our image. Society condemns vociferously when an instance of animal cruelty comes to light yet we have thrown away our humanity for the sake of erroneous expediency when dealing with fellow human beings. Patriots? Fellow citizens? Not in my book. After reading the comments here it becomes clear that most of you are just as sickened as I am by what “our” government considers acceptable behavior. Speak up people, not just here.
WAR CRIMINALS, WAR CRIMINALS, WAR CRIMINALS!
Send all of them to The Hague, and let Baltasar Garzón have his way with them.
Dick Cheney
former Vice President Dick Cheney said in an interview Monday. “It produced results and saved lives.”
George W. Bush
A year after the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, described as the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Mr. Bush wrote that George J. Tenet, then the C.I.A. director, asked for permission to use the harsh tactics. Thinking about the 3,000 victims of Sept. 11 and the widow of Daniel Pearl, a Wall Street Journal reporter killed by Mr. Mohammed, Mr. Bush wrote that he responded, “Damn right.”
Other accounts indicated that the president’s staff deliberately shielded him from graphic descriptions of the interrogations. According to “500 Days” by the journalist Kurt Eichenwald, Alberto R. Gonzales, then the White House counsel, took Mr. Tenet’s request to use harsh techniques on Abu Zubaydah to the president. When Mr. Bush asked what kind of techniques, Mr. Gonzales replied, according to the book, “Mr. President, I think for your own protection, you don’t need to know the details of what’s going on here.” Mr. Bush agreed, saying: “All right. Just make sure that these things are lawful.”
By the time the C.I.A. director came in April 2006 to give Mr. Bush the agency’s first briefing about the interrogation techniques it had been using since 2002, more than three dozen prisoners had already been subjected to them. And when told about one detainee being chained to the ceiling of his cell, clothed in a diaper and forced to urinate and defecate on himself, even a president known for his dead-or-alive swagger “expressed discomfort,” according to a report released Tuesday. -Apparently he did know…
Yet in 2006, Bush said, “I want to be absolutely clear with our people and the world: The United States does not torture. It’s against our laws, and it’s against our values. I have not authorized it, and I will not authorize it.” -Apparently he did authorize it…
George Tenet
A year later, after the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, described as the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Mr. Bush wrote that George J. Tenet, then the C.I.A. director, asked for permission to use the harsh tactics…
And then in a meeting between Colin Powell & (his chief of staff) Col. Wilkerson, George Tenet showed up with the spellbinding news that high level Al Qaeda operatives had revealed under interrogation, (without revealing that Sheik Al-Libi was being tortured at the time) that he’d revealed significant contacts between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein’s operatives in Baghdad.
This was a flat-out lie. We later learned it was Sheik Al-Libi, we learned he was being tortured, no US personnel were even present, and that in a week to ten days he recanted what he’d given under torture. -Col. Wilkerson former chief of staff to General Colin Powell
General Michael V. Hayden -Director of the National Security Agency (NSA) from 1999 to 2005
Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence from April 21, 2005 to May 26, 2006
Director of the CIA from May 26, 2006
Hayden was also a supporter of “enhanced interrogation techniques”
Stephen J. Hadley -Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor
he replaced Condoleezza Rice as National Security Advisor On January 26, 2005.
He admitted fault in allowing a disputed claim about Iraq’s quest for nuclear weapons material. On July 22, 2003, Hadley offered his resignation to Bush because he had “failed in that responsibility” and that “the high standards the president set were not met.” Bush denied Hadley’s request.
Condoleeza Rice
The Senate report confirms that, saying that after Mr. Bush approved transferring Abu Zubaydah to one such prison, it was the last time he or Mr. Cheney was told which countries were being used “as a matter of White House policy to avoid inadvertent disclosures of the location of the C.I.A. detention sites.”
The documents suggest some hesitation on Ms. Rice’s part. In the summer of 2002, when she requested a delay in using the techniques to learn more about them, the C.I.A. told her that “countless more Americans may die unless we can persuade A.Z. to tell us” what he knows. Ms. Rice relented. A few days later, her legal adviser told Mr. Tenet’s chief of staff that the C.I.A. had approval to use the techniques but that “there would be no briefing of the president on this matter,” the Senate report says.Ultimately told the CIA the harsher interrogation tactics were acceptable.
At least some Bush administration officials opposed the interrogation techniques, including notably Condoleezza Rice’s most senior adviser Philip Zelikow. Upon learning details of the program, Zelikow wrote a memo contesting the Justice Department’s Torture Memos, believing them wrong both legally and as a matter of policy. Zelikow’s memo warned that the interrogation techniques breached US law, and could lead to prosecutions for war crimes
Donald Rumsfeld
On December 2, 2002 the U.S. Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, signed his name at the bottom of a document that listed eighteen techniques of interrogation – techniques that defied international definitions of torture. The Rumsfeld Memo authorized the controversial interrogation practices that later migrated to Guantanamo, Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, as part of the policy of extraordinary rendition.
John Yoo -a former Justice Department lawyer
John Ashcroft -former U.S. Attorney General
In early 2002 top US Government officials including Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, George Tenet, Condoleezza Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, and John Ashcroft discussed at length whether or not the CIA could legally use harsh techniques against Abu Zubaydah
Alberto Gonzales -former U.S. Attorney General
Alberto R. Gonzales, then the White House counsel, took Mr. Tenet’s request to use harsh techniques on Abu Zubaydah to the president. When Mr. Bush asked what kind of techniques, Mr. Gonzales replied, according to the book, “Mr. President, I think for your own protection, you don’t need to know the details of what’s going on here.” Mr. Bush agreed, saying: “All right. Just make sure that these things are lawful.”
David Addington -the chief of staff and the principal legal adviser to Vice-President Dick Cheney.
Leon Panetta -former CIA director
In his recent book, Panetta wrote that “we got important, even critical intelligence from individuals subjected to these enhanced interrogation techniques.” He also wrote that it’s unknown “whether those were the only ways to elicit that information.”
If Augusto Pinochet and Radovan Karadzic can be tried for WAR CRIMES, then so should ALL the U.S. perpetrators. If NOT, then the U.S. govt has succeeded in destroying the Geneva Convention.
Don’t be surprised when our ‘boys’ get tortured in the next war.
Agree.
Now all we need is a federal prosecutor who has taken an oath to the U.S. Constitution to have them all arrested with no bail allowed and their passports taken (just like Edward Snowden’s passport was taken).
They need to be indicted and tried in full court, prosecuted with a jury of their peers and if convicted imprisoned or executed under the law. I think federal statutes would apply here and if I am not wrong the death penalty might be what they deserve.
If this does not occur then the American people can expect tortue to be on-going into the future.
The CIA must be completely over-hauled and brought under FULL Congressional oversight into the future.
The NSA: “Our surveilance and monitoring of mega-data has saved lives and prevented terrorist attacks”.
The CIA: “Our enhanced interrogation techniques have saved lives”.
Starting to sound like a recurring theme?
Just remember that saying that applies to child molesters: “Abuse thrives in an environment of secrecy”.
“The only way they would be forgiven for what they did was if they could show it had saved lives.”
The fact that they came up with this rationale is contemptuous of ‘we the people’ – it damns America, its culture, values and society. But it is also telling of their overweening sense of importance – something to be more than a little worried about if the US is to continue as a democracy. But, thankfully they misread the masses (well at least some).
One of the unstated and absolutely necessary missions of the CIA is to fall on its own sword to provide the president with plausible deniability.
The president will forgive all sins attributable to the CIA; it is easier to pardon the CIA for its extreme patriotism than himself for extreme crimes.
The show must go on.
I believe this is all part of the same program torture/human experimentation program that began when Dick Cheney was Secretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. The connection is the two psychologists who built the CIA “Enhanced Interrogation” program on the “learned helplessness” studies pioneered by Martin Seligman, the recipient of numerous DoD contracts. That proves the objective was not “interrogation” and getting information from the torture subject. The objective was always human experimentation, breaking torture subjects and responding positively to their jailers will. Total control was always the objective. Now I am almost 100% sure this objective was not communicated to the CIA officers charged with carrying out these heinous acts, many who objected and were breaking down. The person in charge of the Interrogation program, after a period of time, refused to have anything to do with it, because he knew it was all bullshit. The CIA officers were told, your work will stop the next terrorist attack against the United States and save lives.
The torture architects Cheney et al, should explain what their ultimate objectives are to the world and the American people. It was never about obtaining information. It was never about protecting freedom and democracy. There is a much bigger plan unfolding. The human experimentation that was performed on the “detainees” and continues to be used on innocent people in the United States and Europe, is instrumental to this plan.
It was interesting to hear ex-CIA officer Grenier on the News Hour state in a slight panic, that Bush knew what he wanted to know and the CIA was in constant contact with an official (name please) at the White House, who knew absolutely everything they were doing. And the CIA had numerous memos from the Bush/Cheney Justice Department, stating that everything they were doing was legal.
So who exactly wanted people tortured based on Martin Seligman’s experiments with “learned helplessness”. What exactly is the objectively?
I would also suggest a very close look at George Tenant. He was head of the CIA when the false information produced under torture was used to justify the invasion of Iraq. One of the main people involved in my targeting went to Georgetown with George Tenant. This person first claimed a close relationship that included “protectors” and later recanted, saying he had never met him. They were both of Greek descent. Tenant later went on to a board that does microchipping, as did Tommy Thompson. Current CIA Director Brennan when asked why can’t they just micro-chip terrorists like they do horses, joked “because horses don’t have good lawyers”. It might be tempting to hold current officials responsible for the egregious abuses under the Bush administration. But we all know who is really responsible, don’t we? The guy who keeps getting on television with a smirk and his new heart, defending torture. Who were his accomplices, public and private. Who does Dick Cheney really work for??
Tenet, spelled his name wrong. Sorry, the internet has been a little slow lately…
I am also curious to know why James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen still retain their licenses, since they very clearly committed felonies.
I’m sorry did I hear your defense correctly, that you felt the prisoners would be “more compliant” if there were tortured under the principles devised during the “learned helplessness” studies. I hope you pieces of 81 million dollar garbage are aware that these tactics are being used all across the globe against innocents, as a means of control. But you may already know that, since you worked for the Air Force…the leads in Directed Energy Weapon development, with close ties to all of the military defense contractors…the most expensive toys.
Mitchell & Jessen, you worked for the Air Force and somehow think that’s a defense. Think that makes you a squeaky clean good guy. Not when it’s revealed what is being done to innocent U.S. citizens. Check out what’s being done in San Jose, by a Mayor who is former U. S.Air Force. There is no statute of limitations on torture. Do you understand Seligman, Mitchell and Jessen? You are the new Nazi war criminals, that will be hunted. Eventually, your full crimes will be revealed.
I can only hope that these hidden atrocities will be revealed soon for your, my and the thousands of other targeted individuals. I hope that these evil contractors’ names will be revealed to the public. These people have sadistically enjoyed ruining people’s lives.
The CIA were looking at the “Israeli example” as they embarked on their new torture mission. But even the Israeli courts don’t seem to countenance anything close to what the CIA does:
“In 1999, the Israeli High Court of Justice ruled that Shin Bet interrogators could not use physical means that were not “reasonable and fair” and that violated the detainee’s human dignity. Still, it allowed certain techniques — such as sleep deprivation — if they were the by-product of the interrogation and not means in and of themselves.
Most significantly, the court ruled that interrogators who exceeded their limits could potentially avoid criminal prosecution by invoking the “necessity defense,” a common-law principle that allows one to break the law in situations of overwhelming urgency, such as an impending mass-casualty terror attack.
The ruling overturned the findings of the 1987 Landau Commission, which recommended that Shin Bet interrogators be allowed to use, under close supervision, “a moderate measure of physical pressure” in cases when non-violent psychological pressure does not work on detainees with knowledge of impending attacks.”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/senate-report-says-cia-looked-to-israel-for-turture-rulings/
Now there are major problems with the Israeli decision, the “ticking time bomb” scenario is a fairytale for one, the torturer can not “know” that a victim will cough up some life saving information under torture. And two, there can be no “necessity” to torture so obviously, there should be no necessity defence. But it is shameful that Israel, after decades of military occupation of Palestine, on the cusp of its revoking its own democratic credentials and becoming formally a “Jewish” rather than a “democratic” state…even their courts seem to value the dignity of man more than the CIA’s legal team, which was scurrying to the middle east to find something, anything to justify “rectal rehydration” and “standing on broken limbs”.
Here’s what happens when you allow the “ticking time bomb” exception for torture, suddenly more prisoners that are interrogated are declared to be ticking time bombs:
“The NGO said that whereas it views the 1999 High Court decision as “declaring torture illegal,” the Shin Bet has interpreted the decision as declaring that “anything not specifically prohibited is permitted” in a much more unqualified manner than there had been prior to the ruling.
The state’s interpretation finds its basis in the court’s discussion of a “ticking bomb” scenario as an exception to its declaration that torture is illegal.
Following the ruling, the state started declaring more and more detainees whom it interrogated to be potential ticking bombs, and has significantly over-expanded the envelope originally intended by the court, PCATI said, though it added that the court also has turned a blind eye.”
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Israeli-NGO-accuses-Shin-Bet-of-using-torture-despite-High-Court-ban-337196
Regarding the effectiveness of torture,
“In all the years I’ve been arguing about torture, I never once claimed it never works – because that claim is, to me, both untrue and irrelevant. Torture – like murder – is categorically wrong no matter what benefits it produces.” ~Glenn Greenwald
Good reminder, and absolutely true. Of course, torture most often elicits information that represents the victim saying whatever he thinks he must say to make the agony stop. (Don’t think it would have taken too long for the Dominicans to have gotten me to insist I was, indeed, a witch.) And, of course, as the Senate report documents, the same information is often already known from non-torture methods.
Stranger and more disturbing than decent Thriller/Sci Fi fiction. Superb piece!
Apparently Obama is absolutely determined to avoid taking any action at all. Shame on him.
An interesting exercise: Google “CIA failures.” Quite a list, to which this torture program should be added.
The CIA seems to be an incredibly dishonest organization, lying continually to everyone, including themselves. And when not lying, ludicrously wrong (e.g., George Tenet’s “Slam dunk”).
As I have said and will continue to do so until the greater good prevails, once anyone engages in the argument that torture saves lives, the argument is lost. There is NO place for torture in society. If torture is allowed for even the best of reasons, society ceases to exist and is replaced by mob rule. Stop arguing whether torture saved lives. How can I make this point any clearer? SHOULD I ALLCAPS EVERYTHING? Are we schoolchildren? The CIA’s vehement claim that actionable intelligence was gained should signal to everyone that they have no intention of ruling out torture in the future. Even if they did make a promise to never use those techniques again, you’d have to make sure it was a pinkie promise. Don’t be deceived into arguing that torture can ever be justified. What is so difficult with that concept? I will not apologize for belaboring this point to the point of being loathed. I can understand someone being angry enough to want to kill someone, for that would be a singular event. Abusing another creature repeatedly using the tactics described in this summary is behavior that cannot be tolerated. Once that line is crossed we become the monsters we purport to be fighting. Would anyone hesitate to prosecute someone that would treat, say, a dog like that? I’ve vented enough for now. Speak up people.
I’m very sympathetic with your point of view. I for one don’t personally care if it “works”. But as I wrote during the “Zero Dark Thirty” furor, the pro-torture argument is simple: The ends justify the means. So if the evidence is overwhelming that torture achieves nothing — or less than nothing — then we win the argument by default. See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-froomkin/emzero-dark-thirtyem-and_b_2459382.html
It’s not so easy to prove a negative, especially when it’s the other party (the CIA) which possesses all the evidence.
The CIA habitually fails at almost everything it attempts, but if it uses torture, it can at least argue that it tried hard. This from the CIA’s point of view means that torture achieves something. Governments do not measure themselves by results, but by effort expended. Torture shows you’ve gone the extra mile to achieve nothing.
You have to prove that torture never works. Maybe it’s effective in some rare circumstances (that have yet to be encountered). Why rule out the option? You also have to prove that torture can never be made to work. Maybe we should spend government money on torture research. Also, if the effectiveness of torture is up for debate, maybe it’s effective in other ways besides extracting reliable information. Maybe some of these other uses are known, and maybe we can discover new ones. All I am saying is give torture a chance!
That is, if your moral objection is not absolute.
Dan – and everyone—
I MUST piggyback with barncat, Glenn G, and jgreen7801. Our objection to torture must be a moral absolute. We must oppose it in all circumstances.
We must scream for the torturers to be held accountable – but I’m not holding my breath.
Torture opponents are so slippery. They argue at length that torture isn’t effective enough. Then when you pay $81M to some APA members to devise a more effective torture program, they immediately switch tracks and say they don’t care if it’s effective.
Re: Dan Froomkin 10 Dec 2014 at 1:48 pm
Mr. Froomkin, aside from my personal gratitude for your reporting on this current convoluted exercise in “open government” theater, and my genuine respect for all of the efforts by everyone at FIRSTLOOK in their concerted efforts to rehabilitate an informed public through factual investigative reporting, I would like to address an issue that I perceive as fundamental to the goal of a truly unabridged public informed understanding; not only of this particular example of intentional malfeasance, but much of what is similarly orchestrated as legally constituted governance. That issue, good sir, is the unethical, and all too common criminal, activities of sworn officers of our Constitutionally mandated courts of law; portrayed to the general public as properly licensed “lawyers”. That this faction of our “legal establishment” are the authors, and thereby the facilitators, of the vast majority of both private and governmental misfeasance and corruption, while hypocritically claiming undeserved protections for the very “high crimes and misdemeanors” they are intentionally fomenting, is, and has been, common knowledge amongst many informed journalists and legal scholars for decades. In my opinion, the public confusion regarding the vast majority of the serious issues that are confronting our society could begin to be assuaged, if this omnipresent ‘beginning point’ of corruption became reported as a formative element to the terrible and deadly outcomes to which this behavior lends itself.
The media and public attention on this present issue, that of the wholesale federal government authorization of institutionalized criminal torture, presents serious and ethical journalists and legal scholars with yet another moment in our history to actually inform and educate our people; and by such uncompromising actions, rise above the too often practiced habit of merely providing “stories” depicting the horrific outcomes of the behaviors of those hiding behind veils of pretended credibility, and their carefully constructed “word- speak” of “plausible deniability”. Our people desperately need to be provided with comprehensible information regarding the foundational causes of these tragic outcomes, information that exposes the dark underpinning and origins of such rabid contemptible betrayal of the public good.
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
I’m trying to find what Charles Krauthammer is saying in defence of his pro-torture position now, He’s mostly confining himself so far to Fox TV:
Charles Krauthammer – “What exactly is to gain here? Do we not know about this already? Does it have to be done in detail and released now?”
Charles Krauthammer – “The second casualty will be the timidity as former CIA director Hayden has said it will impose on the CIA in the future, Will you ever take a risk in defense of the national security if you think you’re going to be hung out to dry later?”
Charles Krauthammer – “We’re not going to have any allies around the world, and because we have so little human intelligence, as a result of a drone program that kills our enemy and never captures them–nobody has gone to Guantanamo in the six years of the Obama administration–we rely on the eyes and ears of other allies. Who is going to help us after this? Nobody.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/08/krauthammer-what-exactly-is-to-gain-here-with-release-senate-report/
Do we not know “this” already? If we do, why is Krauthamer worried?
And he’s worried about “timidity”, as in “OH NO!, the US government is too timid to commit war crimes”?
I’m still trying to decipher Krauthammer’s third point. He seems to be saying that because America is droning so many people around the world, the supply of Guantanamo prisoners has dried up, so America shouldn’t examine the torture program lest the exposure harms cooperation with other nations and the US would lose even the intelligence it gets from prisoners it tortures in foreign jails.
Whose payroll is Krauthamer on? He certainly does not seem to be an American journalist working for “we the people” to bring us the “truth” so WE can decide.
We are waiting for the next Attorney-General to be nominated. Their answers on this matter, of responding to the Senate torture report, should be the litmus-test upon which their confirmation rests.
HI eddie-g –
I believe we have an AG nominee. She is Loretta Lynch. It would be good to know how she stands on this.
“For the CIA officials involved in torture, one thing was clear from the very beginning: The only way they would be forgiven for what they did was if they could show it had saved lives.
It was the heart of their rationale. It was vital to public acceptance. It was how they would avoid prosecution.” -Dan Froomkin
http://www.ciasavedlives.com/ “Authorized and Legal” (refer to second tab, at top)
(Foreign Policy magazine mentioned it the other night and I had almost forgotten about it. Full steam ahead with the propaganda.)
“CIA Torture Report: White House Mum on Whether Methods Saved Lives”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cia-torture-report-white-house-mum-methods-saved/story?id=27503297
According to the international treaties the United States is a signatory to, it matters NOT whether they “think” they received actionable intelligence that could have “saved lives”. Torture is AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW. PERIOD.
Why do we even have a CIA?
They’ve done nothing but subvert the achievement of any victories and contributed to many years of disastrously inept US foreign policies..
where was the CIA 9/10/01? where when we lost Iraq & Afg? Poppy farming!
“Why do we even have a CIA?”
Funny you should ask. They’ll tell ya. (The site launched when the report was released, apparently. Propaganda is a powerful thing.)
“CIA Saved Lives.”
http://www.ciasavedlives.com/
Posted the link earlier, but the comment still hasn’t posted, possibly because it contains two links?
I had a 2-link comment disappear into the ether a couple days ago. Have no idea if it ever appeared. Frustrating because I have had them come through just fine in the past. :-s
Where was the CIA when JFK’s brains were blown all over Dallas?
Behind the trigger men, making sure they got away and they did. May have been the CIA’s first major victory, killing a US President.
With regards to the statement by Eric Holder “that the Department of Justice will not prosecute anyone who acted in good faith and within the scope of the legal guidance given by the Office of Legal Counsel regarding the interrogation of detainees:”
This report leaves the Justice Department completely off the hook and able to prosecute. The entire foundation of the so-called “Torture Memos” is that the treatment will be up to the line of cruel treatment (Article 16 of the CAT) and not across it (Article 2 of the CAT), and that the basis for this line existing is that all the medical and psychological information and the methodologies provided by CIA Counsel John Rizzo to the OLC is true and accurate.
Since the report documents that no such line existed, no such medical and psychological restraints or expertise was ever exerted, and no such attention to methodology was employed, the net result is that very little if anything documented by the Senate Report is protected by staying within even the ludicrous guidelines of Yoo and Bybee’s several Torture Memos.
Who can indict the Justice Department for not standing up to their oaths to the Constitution and the treaties against torture the United States is a signatory to?
All treaties signed by the United States become “the highest law of the land”.
I am just some retired American nurse and even I know this much about the LAW!
Outstanding analysis, compilation, and journalistic reporting Mr. Froomkin!
Your article cuts through all the bullshit and clearly delineates the collusion between the CIA (taking orders from the Executive) and the torture architects within the Executive Branch.
To quote the old saying: Shit rolls downhill.
The “justification” argument being implied by the executive summary of the full classified report on ” CIA Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” (which we can all agree is another word for torture) is a feeble attempt to convince the public otherwise.
Prosecution of all torture architects, colluding parties (to include those that aid and abet) and those that delay or refuse to prosecute guilty parties; is essential to comply with US and International Law. These are International crimes committed in a bogus “War on Terror.”
There is no “mia culpa” to justify these crimes committed by US Government officials.
I demand prosecution and anyone with an ounce of human decency, will do the same.
The “learned helplessness” that is the bedrock idea behind torture techniques is not a lesson meant to be learned only by torture victims. It conveys a message to everyone who would resist the goals of sociopathic empire. The militarization of police forces. The pepper spray and rubber bullets aimed at peaceful protestors. The failure to prosecute white cops for killing black people. The jailing of whistleblowers. The failure to prosecute the criminals of Wall Street, Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Agriculture, Big Insurance, Big Politics… all serve to teach us that resistance is futile… and the more people who believe that, the truer it is.
The one concern I have, Mr. Froomkin, is that we still engage in this debate.
Torture isn’t wrong merely because it is inefficacious. And that shouldn’t be allowed to frame the debate.
Torture is wrong because it is profoundly immoral. Period. Full stop.
It is inhumane, regardless of the relative worth of the individual being subjected to it. And it dehumanizes the practitioners themselves.
Had I ever run into OBL, I’m sure I would have wanted to dig out his heart with a rusty spoon. But as a society, we are supposed to be pledged to neither condone nor allow that. And it lessens us when we do.
We all need to get on the same page here people. Torture is WRONG because it is against every treaty and law the United States is a signatory to.
Once we get that straight the rest should be easy.
All U.S. individuals and dare I say those countries that are also signatories to anti-torture conventions/treaties are culpable.
We need thorough investigations moving forward and world-wide indictments, prosecutions and trials of all those who took part in this moral depravity and lawbreaking. Those found guilty need to be imprisoned or worse. Period.
Let’s wrap our heads around this simple fact and move forward.
Otherwise “never again” is total B.S. and we all know it.
Rich Bauer –
You’ve said it beautifully and I 100% agree.
Very good Andrew Sullivan article:
“Nine years ago, Charles Krauthammer wrote an essay in The Weekly Standard defending the use of torture by the United States. I responded with the essay excerpted below in The New Republic. I went back and read that debate this morning, just to see how it holds up in the wake of the mass of evidence we now have from the CIA itself about the torture that the US actually authorized and practiced under the Bush administration.
…Notice that Charles Krauthammer’s maximal position in 2005 is now dead last in public opinion: his view that torture should be used extremely rarely commands less than 20 percent support and is beaten by those Americans who now believe that torture should be employed often. Yes: often. And this, of course, is not an accident. When a former president and vice-president openly back torture, and when the CIA has been engaging in a massive p.r. campaign to argue – against what we now know are incontrovertible facts from the CIA’s own records – that it saved thousands of lives, it will affect public opinion. There are always atavist and repellent sentiments in war time. The difference now is that a huge section of the elite endorses them.
…In a civilized society, there really would be no debate over this. And before 9/11, there wasn’t. Ever since, this country has slid and then fallen out of the civilized world and out of the core American traditions of humanity and legal warfare. Krauthammer can be seen as emblematic of that slide – someone whose early abhorrence at torture and defense of it only in its mildest and rarest forms has slowly succumbed to a full-fledged defense of a program that violated every rule he said should be in place to protect us from the abyss. This is not surprising. When you start to torture, the sheer evil of what you are doing requires that you believe ever more in its value. You can never admit error, because it would mean you have committed crimes against humanity without even the defense of acquiring any useful intelligence. You are revealed as monsters – and you cannot accept that of yourself or of those you know. And so you insist – with ever-rising certainty – that the torture worked – even though that’s irrelevant as a matter of morality and of law, and even though your own internal documents prove that it didn’t.
And so you become the monster you were supposed to be fighting. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/10/the-truth-about-torture-revisited/
I suspect pollsters would find a relationship between Americans who support torture and hours of television consumed.
For the last 13 years the networks have filled us up on militaristic police, terrorist threats and the most heinous crimes. I guess it’s yet another way the multinationals (owning both media and military manufacturers) manufacture consent.
Isn’t perjury a crime, Mr. Holder?
Did anyone in the OLC authorize lying?
Surely if you exonerate torturers because Bybee says torture is okay, because everyone had good intentions, why grant Hayden immunity from a perjury prosecution?
The rock may be a ten ton boulder, and the slimy creatures living underneath it may consider themselves therefore safe, but recall Archimedes (or Ken Starr).
Perjury makes a hell of a lever.and subpoena power a hell of a fulcrum.
I was taught in high school that the U.S. Attorney General is supposed to be “the peoples lawyer”.
He should now act like it and call for a complete investigation with full subpoena power and go all the way with it.
IF he works for “we the people” and not for the criminals in our midst.
Summary of reaction to report: Americans sanguine about torture by CIA, surprised to hear it doesn’t work.
Given the surprising conclusion of the report, most Americans will probably simply dismiss it, as large numbers of TV shows and movies have amply demonstrated the efficacy of torture.
Also, in terms of manipulating public opinion on the subject, this piece at the Washington Post indicates the key is to give people more options. If your poll simply asks whether torture is acceptable (yes/no), you get about a 50-50 split. But if you give a range of options (never, rarely, sometimes or often), the ‘never’ sinks down to about 25%.
Of course, the polls could equally be interpreted to mean that people just select answers at random.
Dan, I commend you for diligently going through this hell on earth and writing a cogent and compelling report. Every citizen from high chool on up should be required to read this. Our elected officials should be required to read this multiple times. The President should be required to memorize it and recite it to the nation.
I said it before – the motivation behind most of the torture was not interrogation, but rather vengeance and sadistic pleasure. This report makes that quite clear. Those who approved the torture and those who carried it out are sociopathic monsters, with not a shred of empathy.
I have commented to others before that it’d be great if we could somehow breed out psychopathology, but it won’t ever happen because the military/CIA relies too much on these aberrant animals to do their worst bidding. As JGreen says, speak up people.
No one has empathy for psychopaths. If people were nicer, maybe we wouldn’t feel so driven to rule the world.
Perhaps not but I’m of the belief that even psychopaths shouldn’t be tortured.
No torture, just prohibited from breeding.
Even if they haven’t committed a crime? Maybe I’m insufficiently objective about psychopaths, but isn’t denying certain groups a right to breed, a fairly extreme infringement by society on the freedom of the individual? The psychologists who created the torture program were paid $80M. Psychopaths respond to rewards like anyone else. Maybe before taking more extreme measures, society could simply decide to reward them somewhat less lavishly.
quote”If people were nicer, maybe we wouldn’t feel so driven to rule the world”unquote
Says the CIA PHD of reverse psychology propaganda. Now I understand why your mother killed herself. It’s just too bad Col. Prouty couldn’t be here to join in the fun.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/
You’re wrong. It’s reversed reverse psychology propaganda.
The most repugnant thing that I’ve heard said about these eager criminals is that they are, somehow, “patriots”.
Mind you, lately, anyone that I’ve seen who has referred to themselves as ‘patriots’…aren’t. They are just scumbags using patriotism as an excuse.
They are all criminals to the highest degree and should be treated as such.
Anything less will be a travesty of justice. And we all know it.
It would be better if known liars, e.g. known liar CIA director Brennan*, were referred to as known liars. They have no credibility pretending otherwise is a disservice to your readers.
* he lied about spying on the senate staffers