The U.S. Government often warns of increasingly sophisticated cyberattacks from adversaries, but it may have actually contributed to those capabilities in the case of Iran.
A top secret National Security Agency document from April 2013 reveals that the U.S. intelligence community is worried that the West’s campaign of aggressive and sophisticated cyberattacks enabled Iran to improve its own capabilities by studying and then replicating those tactics.
The NSA is specifically concerned that Iran’s cyberweapons will become increasingly potent and sophisticated by virtue of learning from the attacks that have been launched against that country. “Iran’s destructive cyber attack against Saudi Aramco in August 2012, during which data was destroyed on tens of thousands of computers, was the first such attack NSA has observed from this adversary,” the NSA document states. “Iran, having been a victim of a similar cyber attack against its own oil industry in April 2012, has demonstrated a clear ability to learn from the capabilities and actions of others.”
The document was provided to The Intercept by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, and was prepared in connection with a planned meeting with Government Communications Headquarters, the British surveillance agency. The document references joint surveillance successes such as “support to policymakers during the multiple rounds of P5 plus 1 negotiations,” referring to the ongoing talks between the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, Germany and Iran to forge an agreement over Iran’s nuclear program.
The document suggests that Iran has become a much more formidable cyberforce by learning from the viruses injected into its systems—attacks which have been linked back to the United States and Israel.
In June 2012, The New York Times reported that from “his first months in office, President Obama secretly ordered sophisticated attacks on the computer systems that run Iran’s main nuclear enrichment facilities, significantly expanding America’s first sustained use of cyberweapons, according to participants in the program.” As part of that plan, the U.S. and Israel jointly unleashed the Stuxnet virus on Iranian nuclear facilities, but a programming error “allowed it to escape Iran’s Natanz plant and sent it around the world on the Internet.” Israel also deployed a second virus, called Flame, against Iran.
Obama ordered cyberattacks despite his awareness that they would likely unleash a wholly new form of warfare between states, similar to the “first use of atomic weapons in the 1940s, of intercontinental missiles in the 1950s and of drones in the past decade,” according to the Times report. Obama “repeatedly expressed concerns that any American acknowledgment that it was using cyberweapons—even under the most careful and limited circumstances—could enable other countries, terrorists or hackers to justify their own attacks.”
The NSA’s concern of inadvertently aiding Iran’s cyberattack capabilities is striking given the government’s recent warning about the ability of adversaries to develop more advanced viruses. A top official at the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency’s (DARPA) appeared on 60 Minutes this Sunday and claimed that cyberattacks against the U.S. military are becoming more potent. “The sophistication of the attacks is increasing,” warned Dan Kaufman, director of DARPA’s Information Innovation Office.
The NSA document suggests that offensive cyberattacks on other states do not merely provoke counterattacks—those attacks can teach adversaries how to launch their own. “Iran continues to conduct distributed denial-of-service (DDOS) attacks against numerous U.S. financial institutions, and is currently in the third phase of a series of such attacks that began in August 2012,” the document says. “SIGINT indicates that these attacks are in retaliation to Western activities against Iran’s nuclear sector and that senior officials in the Iranian government are aware of these attacks.”
This would not be the first time the U.S. has inadvertently assisted Iran’s attack capabilities. Last month, former CIA officer Jeffrey Sterling was convicted of multiple felony counts for telling New York Times reporter James Risen about an agency program designed to feed Iran false data about nuclear engineering in order to create setbacks, but which instead may have provided useful information the Iranians were able to exploit to advance their nuclear research.
As of 2013, the NSA said that while it had no indications “that Iran plans to conduct such an attack against a U.S. or UK target, we cannot rule out the possibility of such an attack, especially in the face of increased international pressure on the regime.”
The NSA “can’t comment or speculate on the motivations of those who aim to harm the United States or our allies,” a spokesperson for the agency said. “The National Security Agency works with foreign partners to protect our interests and citizens in cyberspace.”
Photo: Iranian Presidents office/AP
these ‘volleys’ we now observe that target specific targets to soften an enemies resolve, damage their capabilities and other immediate war type offensives, will eventually change. as these high value targets become hardened by use of government spending (your tax money) , the adversaries will simply move on to disrupting any business that does activity on the internet, thus creating an entirely toxic environment for any individual to traverse for free speech, common activity like email or blogs, and other mundane (bandwidth wasting) activities. after all, free speech is one of the high priorities most of those tyrants seek to suppress.
The Iranians have a lot of nerve daring to learn from past mistakes. Pfffff!
Ultimately Liberty and Freedom shall win out in the long run and the CIA shall be defeated in its attempts at global domination and enslavement of the human race through spying and trying to rule over people around the world. The CIA, NSA, etc shall be defeated on the internet and all people shall enjoy the benefits that the internet and modern technology can bring to the human race. The self radicalized extremists in the Washington Regime and its secret police may want to use terrorism and national and secrecy and even cyberwarfare as an excuse for the crimes and criminal activities of the CIA and NSA etc but eventually the tyrants shall fail and freedom shall win out in the end. Liberty shall triumph over the CIA, NSA, Pentagon Gestapo and FBI and the rest of the secret police and the Washington Regime as well their puppets and collaborators in the press, courts, and political parties.
Secure digital devices (Phones, Tablets, Laptops & Desktops), secure digital networking, and, secure digital telecommunications can be achieved but it cannot be done in America because of the hostile attitudes and anti-american activities of the state security apparatus and Washingtonians. If these things are designed and developed in America the research would obviously be stolen by the Washington Regime and their secret police and used for their benefit and financial gain. Thus these things have to be developed beyond the claws and reaches of the enemy id est where the criminals in the CIA and Pentagon Gestapo cannot operate freely.
I can remember reading (a few years back) a Glenn Greenwald article in the UK newspaper “The Guardian” that was critical of drone warfare in Yemen. I remember commenting on it at the time under the same Max21c moniker. It is interesting that Yemen has recently undergone the collapse of its central government.
I guess a few years on I’ll be reading another Glenn Greenwald piece somewhere about the aftermath of some future cyberwar.
Clearly Iran has every right to counter attack the U.S. and Israel. Every right.
Are they implying that learning is somehow immoral?
Especially when trying to stop criminal acts and defend your country?
Either the NSA, or those who pull the strings, is arrogantly ignorant of cause and effect, or is counting on it as an excuse for expanding it’s already bloated budget. After reading the linked documents, it sure seems as if the ignorant side is what’s in play. Either way, their budget will surely grow in order to counter Iran’s counter attacks. Money, money, money, money……..Money.
Someone should prosecute Iran for copyright infringement of Stuxnet and Flame! How dare the Iranians pull a “backatcha” on our allies.
Don’t the Iranians know that we are the Bob Bitchen Police State of America? And we are the smartest country in the world? THE WORLD -I TELL YOU!
Iran is just a mere copycat.
This is more of a sanction breaking when they provided Iran with an agency designed nuclear component schematics and Stuxnet.
This sounds like proverbial chest thumping that got the NSA into the mess in the first place. I can forgive the President; after all he is just a politician held captive by the wisdom of those advising him. They didn’t have any wisdom so now I am going to advise him. Building a nuclear bomb is not an easy process. But a few smart kids with computers, a disassembler and they can disect any malware that is thrown at them. But they are not going to just regurgitate the same. They will write their own sophisticated malware. And the game of tit for tat will go on forever.
That was why I was against Stuxnet, Flame, Duqu, and Gauss. Evidently I am the lone minority that is against them. I seem to be the only one that has the courage to speak out against cyber warfare malware. I can understand the silence of others who are involved. But AV companies and others can see that it just leads to worse and worse problems where paradoxically the little nations have the upper hand.
I am sorry, but I don’t believe Iran has a right to have nuclear weapons. The less hot-heads that have nuclear weapons the better. From that if you infer that I am saying that the leaders of Iran are hot-heads, you are correct. The Iranian people themselves aren’t a problem.
Even the less quantity of nuclear weapons are had by those who have nuclear weapons the better. That is why the USA and Russia cut back on how many nuclear weapons they have. It makes the world safer for everybody since they are probably going to be unleashed by accident by countries like Russia or the USA. Iran? We have no idea who they are going to launch them at but they will probably launch them at somebody ASAP. BTW, Saudi Arabia is its own country, not a lackey of the USA no matter what anybody thinks.
The great Gareth Porter exposes the whole stinking pile of lies from the murderous Zionist filth in this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Manufactured-Crisis-Untold-Story-Nuclear/dp/1935982338
How dare the Iranian’s gain knowledge with our cyber attacks upon them for engaging in the enrichment that the NNPT (that they are signatories to) allows them!!!
Israel refuses to sign the NNPT.
Israel refuses to allow inspections of Dimona.
Israel actually ahs about 200 nukes & has threatened to use them multiple times.
Israel currently occupies 4 countries illegally; Lebanon, Syria, Palestine & Jordan.
Iran hasn’t invaded another country in over 200 years since they were Persia.
Iran hasn’t hijacked the US congress, Israel has.
The US would be much better off with Iran as an ally since we could at least buy oil from them.
Israel gives us nothing but grief, wars, spying, debt & the enmity of the planet.
In this case somebody should impose a fine on the US for braking its sanctions against Iran.
But of course they can always blame Santa, for not removing Iranian from his christmas wish list.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/05/11/iran-says-it-has-built-copy-captured-american-drone-will-take-it-on-test-flight/
Never underestimate the power of human curiosity.
Mr. Greenwald
“…Obama “repeatedly expressed concerns that any American acknowledgment that it was using cyberweapons—even under the most careful and limited circumstances—could enable other countries, terrorists or hackers to justify their own attacks.,…..”
I would dispute the NSA’s wording on this matter. Is it justification, or just merely cause and affect, Mr. Greenwald?
Of course is not all that the US and Israel have taught the Iranians. An Iranian General and several other Iranian soldiers were recently killed by an Israeli airstrike in southern Syria. Assad is responsible for murdering over 200,000 Muslims supported by the Iranian regime who have soldiers on the ground – as does Hezbollah. This of course, would never had been possible without – the US and Israel – stuxnet virus. The murdering of over 80 Jews in Argentina in the 1990s and the recent murder of the prosecutor who implicated Iran certainly resulted from US hacking. The Green revolution where the Iranian regime brutally cracked down on peaceful demonstrators clearly was provoked by US cyber attacks. Indeed, it was the US cyber attacks which were directly responsible for the hanging of the two gays in 2005 by the Iranian regime. And there is no doubt that US cyber attacks were behind the Holocaust Denial Conference held in Tehran chaired by Ahmadinejad who invited US participant David Duke to the celebration – the same Ahmadinejad you quoted in an article (presumably you had a straight face) as saying:
“…….”Ahmadinejad: ‘Never, never. We do not want nuclear weapons. We do not seek nuclear weapons. This is an inhumane weapon. Because of our beliefs we are against that……”
And didn’t the same trustworthy source deny there are gays in Iran? Whether it’s nuclear weapon or cyber attacks, clearly no one – especially the Iranian regime who was caught red-handed with a secret nuclear weapons program in 2002 – would consider using these tactics. They are simply too inhumane for the Iranian government held up as truthful and reliable by the Intercept.
You appear to be ignoring the fact that it’s none of anyone else’s business whether Iran develops nuclear weapons or not.
Israel has nuclear weapons, and is demonstrably idiotic, vicious and irresponsible (see: Gaza), as well as land/resource-stealing.
America has nuclear weapons, is a resource-thief, and has actually used nuclear weapons against another nation, annihilating 220,000 people in two utterly reprehensible attacks that were directed specifically at civilian populations.
It is ridiculous for you, a disgusting Zionist supporter of American interventionism, to criticize Iran’s nuclear ambitions, real or imagined (I would say imagined).
Get it through your dimwitted head: you do not occupy a moral ‘high horse.’ You are provably irresponsible internationally. What you ‘occupy’ is Palestine, and you support demonstrably genocidal actors, both in your own delusional group and in the United States establishment.
I agree completely with this comment. It is nobody’s business if Iran develops nuclear weapons. If they want them, they should have them. The bomb is the only think that stops americans aggression. Also, it will be positive for the Middle East. Iran can stand up to the Zionists and can put the fear of GOD into the Sunni puppets of US in Saudi Arabia
Cindy
Iran is a signatory of the NPT, which gives them the legal right to develop nuclear energy but not nuclear weapons.
That is why these false claims of an Iranian weapons program are repeated endlessly to justify US and Israeli aggression.
Of course, under the NPT, the US is also obligated to work towards eliminating nuclear weapons, which we have not done.
Thanks. So the US doesn’t consider it binding, yet wants to bind others to it.
Also, it appears Israel has not signed this ‘treaty’ at all.
Indeed.
The US is special.
And Israel is super special… so they are exempt from vital international efforts to prevent global annihilation… the US said so.
I don’t know what is more disturbing, the fact that every Enemy our Country has Warred upon were actually trained and supplied with our own weapons via the CIA, that Bin Laden was indeed ‘made’ in this manner is not discussed; or the fact that we say so flippantly, yes Iran has a right to Nuclear Weapons, never mind the fact that from a HUMAN perspective, NO ONE SHOULD HAVE NUCLEAR, BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL WMDS! Isn’t that the whole point of this Fascist War in the Middle East!?
@CraigSummers
This is malevolent conjecture. Why on earth do you want to dispute the official version?
I don’t bother responding to this character and everyone else should ignore him too. Honest debate with differing point of views is valuable, but this character is anything but!
Rather than addressing the issue of Cyberwar and the context of the article, notice how he opens his comment by denying official accounts, changing the subject, and making unsubstantiated accusations. Commenting on this site is his job, so let’s leave him alone to do his job!
General
Just a little sarcasm directed at Mr. Greenwald
Thanks
General
“……Why on earth do you want to dispute the official version?……”
I was being a little sarcastic with Mr. Greenwald.
Thanks.
Good try. In all earnestness I must admit that you have a lot of patience dealing with Mona and Candy.
Thanks. Eventually everyone puts their foot in their mouth on these threads so there is no sense getting too carried away with yourself. Cindy says what’s on her mind.
Take care.
I’ll engage because unsubstantiated claims are one thing, these are another.
Please present this “red handed” evidence that Iran had a nuclear weapons program.
Please present the evidence that Assad killed 200,000 as if the US and Saudi supported terrorists attacking Syria (with Israeli encouragement) aren’t responsible for a single death.
Please present the “evidence” that Iran was involved in the murder of a prosecutor in Argentina or involved in the bombing in the 90’s.
Please explain how an Israeli “airstrike” (aka car bombing terror attack) in Syria is justified.
Please explain how the crackdown on protestors in Iran was more “brutal” than the US crackdown on Occupy or anywhere near as “brutal” or “inhumane” as the string of Israeli wars and endless repression against Palestinians.
Please explain how any of these claims are relevant to this article.
And finally, please explain how an illegal preemptive cyber war against Iran who are exercising their legal right to develop nuclear energy and who pose no threat to America makes any sense, doesn’t justify a response, or won’t cause an “affect” (effect).
Evidence for Iran’s nuclear weapons programme can be seen here:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/bomb-graphic-cartoon-netanyahu-united-nations.html
The sad thing is that Bibi isn’t even creative enough to draw that himself… and that he somehow thought it would convince anyone.
“.. just knock if you can hear me. Is there ‘anyone’ at home?!”
[snip]
‘Obama should know that Americans oppose accommodating Iran. In a poll by American strategist Frank Luntz, only 5 percent think the current government there can be trusted – and 81 percent say it can’t. More overwhelming, 85 percent don’t believe the Iranians’ assertion that their nuclear program is peaceful as compared to 8 percent who do..’
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2015/02/06/obamas-course-to-a-nuclear-capable-iran
Suave
A- Your opinion poll proves what now?
B- Luntz? Really?
Altohone
That the individuals (..and their elected officials) who are responsible for warring w/ Iran don’t need to be ‘convinced’, because they already are..
A In God (Our) We Trust Production
Suave
Yeah, well decades of propaganda do have an effect.
I should have clarified and inserted “about Iran” into my last comment.
A legal basis for war requires proof, not just a convinced public, and there isn’t any.
And, I’d still question the accuracy of anything Luntz produces based on his record.
Try reading some intelligence reports – like the Germans, Americans and British. Or possibly try reading some reports from the UN. I haven’t the time for the moment.
Thanks.
Craig
Weak dodge.
Typical.
I’ve read the reports.
They don’t support any of your false assertions.
So, go ahead and present your “evidence”.
If you can find the time to back up what you wrote, I’m sure every foreign policy journalist will jump on your presentation… because none who cover the topic have managed to find what you claim exists.
Very well expressed. There are no evidence about wath are you asking for. Obama organization are a group of bandindites!
“Assad is responsible for murdering over 200,000 Muslims”
The SOHR (a pro-rebel organization) reports that about 210,000 people have died in Syria as a result of the troubles. Of these, about 45000 are government soldiers and about 33000 are members of pro-government militias. So the total military casualties on the government side are 78,000 or about a third of the total. Are you really suggesting that Assad would murder his own soldiers and supporters because that is the implication of your claim.
Furthermore, of that 210,000. about 36000 were rebel and Islamic fighters, 2500 were defected soldiers and officers and 25000 were Arab, European, Asian, American and Australian fighters from the ISIS, al-Nusra Front, Junoud al-Sham battalion, Jund Al-Aqsa battalion, Jund al-Sham Movement and al-Khadra’ battalion, etc. Since they were attacking the government, their deaths can hardly be described as murder. That leaves about 100,000 of which about 7000 were women and 10000 were children. Here it’s important to note that the SOHR includes among civilians those who were civilians or had never been in the army prior to the start of the conflict, so a substantial number of the so-called civilian casualties were actually rebel fighters. Just how many is difficult to know but it’s likely that male civilian deaths would be more than two of three times the female civilian deaths, so that means that of SOHR’s “civilian casualties”, only, say, 31000 are really civilians and responsibility for these deaths could be split pretty well equally between the government and rebels, it should be obvious that your claim that Assad has murdered over 200000 Muslims is ludicrous.
The referenced document contains this statement:
You cannot dispute the wording. It is perfectly clear. Sure, the NSA might be wrong. Or have I completely misunderstood what you are disputing? You started this comment by quoting Obama, not the NSA. So it is not clear to me if your dispute is with GG, Obama, or the NSA.
Hey Craig, where have you been? Is your daughter ok?
Busy for the moment. Just really haven’t had time lately. “I’ll be bock”.
Move your ass
https://soundcloud.com/mellomusicgroup/open-mike-eagle-late-show-prod-exile
The NSA justifying their existence by warning about dangers they created is normal now?
Does anybody have any thoughts on the whole separation of powers/declaring war angle… is cyberwarfare somehow exempt?
I mean we aren’t talking about an actual threat to our security here, as zero evidence of a nuclear weapons program in Iran has been discovered.
The laws of war require an actual threat for preemptive action to be legal.
I am absolutely convinced now, someone, is censoring this comment section. If in that opinion, I am wrong, then who ever designed this comment section STILL has his head up his ass.
I can try half a dozen times to post a comment, take out the link, use different words, but no shows all. I can post some comment on a different subject and they appear straight away.
This is getting worse every day and humans not machines are to blame.
Free speech at the intercept is joke.
But soon the regular “the intercept can do no wrong and is above suspicion” will come along and argue that since THIS COMMENT has appeared there can be no censorship at all.
Closed minds
If the American establishment really wishes that its beneficent ‘shining beacon’ is to be emulated the world over, may God help us all.
Re: the Seal of the United States
I think we should replace E pluribus unum, Annuit cœptis and Novus ordo seclorum with Ain’t Nobody More Exceptionally Short-sighted Than US
Short-sighted? In proof of your point, attend:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/10/racist-cruelty-barack-obamas-government-somalia-humanitarian-crisis
It has to do with electronic money transfers from emigres to Somalia, but it could apply anywhere else.
This HSBC story has an eerie similarity to the BBCI story (Bank of Crooks and Criminals) from back in the day. Can’t wait for the hearings!:
http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/bank_of_crooks_and_criminals_international_bank_of_credit_and_commerce_inte
On the subject of hawaladars. An El Pais article:
“Network of 250 Spanish butchers and phone shops funding jihadists in Syria”
http://elpais.com/elpais/2015/02/02/inenglish/1422892172_955064.html
Wnt below has a couple of good points:
1. If the NSA is going to screw around and get US computers attacked, it would be nice if they would stop destroying the performance of encryption software.
2. Computers just need to be made harder to hack.
You cannot count on the first one happening. What can you do about the second? Perhaps software that interfaces with the outside world needs to be designed differently. Generally software breaks up into convenient small pieces that make it easy to write and perhaps easy to understand. What we need is software that breaks up into small pieces such that it is easy to verify that each piece does only what it is intended to do, that is, is not corrupted. This is multilevel; the checking must be done by software that is even easier to check, and so on, so that after a few levels of this, the check-check-checking software is so simple that it can be checked by a person. This is, of course, a whole new operating system, one whose first function is to remain secure, and only second, do something useful. I think computers are fast enough to make this possible now.
“2. Computers just need to be made harder to hack….What can you do about the second?”
You could have the NSA try to make U.S. systems harder to compromise instead of easier – the biggest buyer (by far) of unannounced 0 day exploits for Windows (i.e. secret ways to hack Windows) is the NSA, who buys and keeps them for themselves instead of giving them to Microsoft to patch…course since the NSA can use them, so can others against us.
Harder to hack? Nice if they could’ve done it for, say, Anthem. BTW, Shane Harris’ @War: The Rise of the Military-Internet Complex is very on point to this discussion. Self-inflicted breaches may already be built-in, he says.
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but most of the NSA data collection does not work on the basis of compromising individual users systems, it works on the basis of compromising the whole infrastructure these individual systems use.
They are not taking over the train, they are taking over the train-tracks and thus are able to control the train.
Of course the NSA poking holes into the security of the infrastructure also opens the whole thing up for attacks by third parties.
But that’s also in the interest of the NSA: By creating the scenario for these possible threats in the first place, they are justifying their own existence and wide reach.
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but the only reason they do not always have to compromise individual systems is because much information is freely available when communicated. That is, not encrypted. But this is changing. The pressure on individual systems will increase.
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but end-to-end high quality encryption cannot be cracked by compromising the whole infrastructure; it must be attacked on the individual system where it is not encrypted.
Maybe you had not noticed that the NSA does put a lot of effort into getting into individual machines. The protection of individual machines is essential for overall information safety, both for the user on his own machine, and for servers used in the infrastructure.
The iranians are using their brain power
Anyone else concerned about the USA govenment letting DARPA’s little rain man run loose on our Bill of Rights?
I know what Shawn Hannity would call this post. “Hate America First” haha
This one cyber-mess serves well as a small model of America’s involvement in the Middle East on the large scale: Under the guise of fighting terrorism, we drop in somewhere for fun and profit–mostly profit–but the countries we drop into don’t appreciate it at the level the U.S. does and fight back. So, we destroy them, or spend decades trying to. Maybe the NSA can’t comment (ha) on the motives for cyber attacks against the U.S., but Obama made an enormous acknowledgment in that regard simply with his concern that America’s own cyber crimes would provide rationalizations for others to retaliate. Now, my question is: Why can’t Obama and others acknowledge that our own crimes are why terrorists want to kill Americans? That was a rhetorical question, of course.
So great is the hubris of the NSA and their overlords, that they are unable to learn from the knowledge that with each attack survived, their enemies emerge stronger. How else to explain the continued cyber attacks by the NSA on just about everybody?
Thanks for the great article Glenn. I’m so grateful for your work. Please keep this sort of articles coming. Hopefully the Iranians will use that information to give the US back 10X what it received.
This might be a case of the commenter having not comprehensively read the article before commenting on it. Either that or you think that if no one told you that you had had your house robbed you could continue sitting comfortably in your house and not know that it had been robbed. All of the missing furniture, computers, TVs, cash money and so on would have gone unnoticed by you if not for the dastardly person who informed you.
Thank you, Kitt, for taking time to comment on my post. But, I don’t quite understand what you mean (ESL person here). That said, some people say that ignorance is bliss. Anyway, I just meant that I hope Iran plants a computer virus in US’s nuclear facilities so the machines break. What’s fair is fair.
From the History of the 21st century:
Even as late as 2015, many people were still unaware the First Cyber War had been raging around them for over a decade. Over course, the following year when all computers connected to the internet went into meltdown, that quickly changed ….
The lesson in this case is that the dark lord may forge the Ring, but once it gets into the hands of nassty little hobbitsses it can cause blowback. Especially if the Ring is self-replicating.
I hate this f*****g country.
Do you hate America first, second or third?
Your comment holds within it the horror of the reality that Government for Profit serves only the Rich weapons dealers, and what’s not used as a WEAPON against us today? I propose that our Country is grand and wonderful, but the Ruling Elite of this Nation has been anything but Democratic to the point where we FINALLY understand we’ve NEVER acquired a DEMOCRACY to date; and 200+ years of progress wiped out in an instance by the U.S. Supreme Court APPOINTING GWBush Presidet of the United States of America! Then we (not all but most) believed Obama… and the Horrors of War at home became an IN YOUR FACE “Screw You”! So I’ve re-languaged it….I hate that the Ruling Elite has autonomous and greater power than over 7 BILLION Human Beings! I hate the Government using my Name as an AMERICAN for scores of years to protect Corporate greed from the indigenous people they stole it from. Our Ruling Elite are Fascist, Racist (yes, even Obama) and profoundly GREEDY individuals responsible for bringing Fascism to power in the United States of America!
This is what happens when you let the genie out of the bottle–it eventually goes out into the wild. Syria, Iran, and China are using the same kind of tactics against Western organizations that Western governments use/used against them. However, Western organizations have been kept in the dark about possible protections against these kinds of risks–therefore they are more vulnerable than their non-western counterparts.
This is metaphorically equivalent to using a virulent disease against an enemy that has no immunity to the disease without first immunizing oneself against it. Eventually what goes around will come around too–and the idiots who released the disease in the first place bear the blame for not first immunizing the population against it. The only kind of cyber warfare that can be fought is a defensive one.
An offensive cyber war cannot be won because it eventually leads to (mutually assured destruction) by compromising the unprotected civilian resources that economically support this kind of mad warfare–and that kind of economic compromise is the only way to end such a war–but because it has such a high cost it shouldn’t be considered a war worth winning.
Only idiots and fools believe its worth fighting such a war. The only way to win such a costly war is by not fighting it at all.
“Only idiots and fools believe its worth fighting such a war. The only way to win such a costly war is by not fighting it at all. – Blackout
Your entire post is spot-on. Just as atomic weapons and “surgical drone strikes” and torture and armed intervention across the globe are not the solution, these cyber attacks are no solution either, but instead, are a part of the problem.
Feeding the beast of conflict only leads to more conflict, and the only solution to that is to stop feeding it altogether.
“War is what happens when language fails.” – Margaret Atwood
From the movie “War Games”
The computer program Joshua
“A strange game. the only winning move is not to play.”
Beat me to it.
The geniuses that put this plan together are enjoying their raise and bonuses! What is perhaps more disturbing is that most of these folks are not dumb, they knew what the consequences are likely to be, but in order to advance their career and get an ad-a-boy, they decided to unleash a war that cannot be won.
The NYT piece was whining – how can they use what we used! As you put it, once you let the genie out, you can complain that other folks are using the genie too!!
I think drones are another genie out of the bottle. It seems like it will be relatively easy to use such devices for attacks on any nation. They can change the playing field.
Awww, cut ’em a break. They didn’t bomb anybody, kill anybody, but they managed to screw up a nuclear program. Doesn’t that count for something? And it’s not like there weren’t enough hackers exploiting the gaping vulnerabilities before. The message here obviously is that we have to secure our computers, not have them hackable, not have the government pay to put in backdoors for others to use against us, not have a market in zero-days instead of fixing them, but more than that, not have an Orwellian society where even TV sets are being twisted by some kind of pathological spy market capitalism into being spying devices that will be infinitely more use to enemies of the U.S. that the poor saps who watch them. Until we button things up, and re-legitimize the right to privacy, by which I mean specifically the right to own things rather than license them without the right to look inside or complain when the company makes copies of everything — until we do that we’re walking around with a wick out our ass and it’s just a question of who is first to strike the match.
This is a comment editor/previewer, guaranteed free and better than nothing, and more wysiwyg than online html previewers.
Never too late to learn new skills, thanks :-D
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It even works with my IMac
MacintoshFinally.
One would think such staunch Judeo-Christian cultures might comprehend the meaning of, “As ye sow, so shall ye reap.”
This competent cook believes your stirring is superb, Mr. Glenn, thank you!
Nope. They are stuck at “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.” All our progress has been made in the realm of improving tools for extracting the eye and the tooth.
Indeed, you would, wouldn’t you? Well, my experience within such environments was those who claimed the Name, just never read the book! Or they only read the parts used from the Pulpit; all else is “Christianese” – used for affect not effect!
“The document was provided to The Intercept by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden” this statement is a little incomplete perhaps the phrase “several years ago” or “at least 2 years ago” would help clarify.
Re: blueba – 10 Feb @ 11:02 AM
Perhaps, before you opine publically on “this statement”, which you perceive as “incomplete”; you might be well advised to complete a study of basic grammatology. While such a pursuit may test your evident impatience, it will certainly provide your snarky criticism with at least a semblance of literacy.
Oh, and by the way, regarding your false claim that no reference was made regarding the relevant date involved….
…maybe, in your rush to impart your illiterate screed, you failed to recall a previous paragraph that said, in pertinent part:
Unless one assumes that your math skills are also wanting, it appears that your alluding to the “..phrase “several years ago” or “at least 2 years ago” would help clarify.” represents the exact opposite to any meaningful clarification. (Feb 2015 minus Apr 2013 = 22 months) Further assuming that you forgot to consider that Mr. Greenwald was not on the NSA’s distribution list regarding the Apr 2013 document, and that it was several months later that he was made aware of its contents by Mr. Snowden, your sophomoric screed still remains ripe with serial hypocrisy and uninformed sophistry.
As Usual,
EA
Was the NSA, and its various and sundry partners in crime, really so arrogant and stupid to believe that this was not precisely what would happen by unleashing these cyberattacks? Did they truly think that they were smarter than everyone else and no one would be able to decipher and reproduce these attacks? Does the US believe that the rest of the world will just cower under its power and magnificence? I find that hard to fathom.
No, the Corporate States of America and its allies in NATO are always preparing for the next big attack,
SO
they need to provide possible methods and weapons so that they have a better pretense
when they proudly demand their god-given right
to slaughter more people.
They guarantee that what goes around, comes around
Again and again and again ……………………………………………………………………………………..
for the god of money.
What the hell does the picture at the top have to do with the article?
It is a loaded picture and I hardly think it is especially relevant to this story –
unless you are trying to favor the message of the NSA.
Are there no pictures of any Iranians without seemingly ominous laboratory implications?
That picture at the top is a commonly used photo in articles discussing cyber attacks related to Iran, particularly in connection with the Stuxnet virus. Stuxnet targeted Iran’s nuclear facilities and destroyed about a fifth of Iran’s nuclear centrifuges. It was a unique attack in which the virus targeted Iranian PLCs (programmable logic controllers) and caused the centrifuges to spin out of control, destroying the equipment.
The photo is very relevant. “Iran’s presdient, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, visiting the Natanz Uranium Enrichment Facility” – captioned by The Telegraph in a 2012 article.
I think the picture was taken in the uranium purification plant where STUXNET played man in the middle with the industrial control system.
Here is a picture of happy Iranians:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/21/happy-dancers-arrested-abused-in-iran.html
The U.S. government has taken a significant portion of my lifetime earnings, used it in part to develop cyberweapons, then directed those tools against peoole who have not threatened me or my fellow citizens. They have done so incompetently, not only creating enemies for no reason but also empowering those new enemies. Finally, the U.S. government uses its cyber powers against me, other U.S. citizens, and the citizens of the world in contravention of our laws and the rule of law in general. The actions of President Obama and his underlings have been reckless, unconscionable, inexcusable, dangerous, and counterproductive, and all in the name of keeping us safe. If that were really the goal, the President’s policies toward Kiev and Mosul, for instance, would stand in stark contrast to what he is doing and preparing to do. Regardless, we U.S. citizens, as a first step, need to conquer the fear that leads to the acceptance of these boldfaced lies from the White House, and we need to treat these claims about the threat of Iran as the absurd poppycock it clearly is.
*they clearly are.
1984 King James Bible pg. 272
But Princess Leia understands the flip side of the above exercise of power, “The more you tighten your grip, the more other [nations] slip through your fingers.”
Marcus Aurelius thoughts are pure gold.
I take it the Maximus is (from Wiki) Claudius Maximus (fl. 2nd century AD) was a Roman politician, a Stoic philosopher and a teacher of Marcus Aurelius.
Is there a link please.
Could you please also give a chapter and verse for “1984 King James Bible pg. 272″. My three KJV are pre and ante the year 1984
…pretty sure you can substitute Russel Crowe for Maximus in that bit. dunno who played Ceaser.
Its from the movie Gladiator.
thanks
The 1984 King James Bible is a joke (mine). The line is from Orwell’s 1984. But I was making the point that modern politicians see 1984 as “the bible of politics” instead of the warning that it is.
This conversation of power and authority and the “Roman Dream” ends badly for Maximus. For Those who have and seek power restoring the Republic not an option.
Lucilla: Is Rome worth one good man’s life? We believed it once. Make us believe it again. He was a soldier of Rome. Honor him.
Gracchus: Who will help me carry him?
[Gladiators surround Maximus to carry him out of the arena]
rr, I do sometimes wonder if there will be any anguish on the deathbeds of people like Cheney and Obama and Netanyahu.
This paragraph struck me:
“Obama ordered cyberattacks despite his awareness that they would likely unleash a wholly new form of warfare between states, similar to the “first use of atomic weapons in the 1940s, of intercontinental missiles in the 1950s and of drones in the past decade,” according to the Times report. Obama “repeatedly expressed concerns that any American acknowledgment that it was using cyberweapons—even under the most careful and limited circumstances—could enable other countries, terrorists or hackers to justify their own attacks.””
So, despite these extreme dangers, Obama went ahead with it. What interests were so important to him that he was willing to unleash these dangers? This is one area where political cowardice ought to be criminal.
“What interests were so important to him that he was willing to unleash these dangers?” – Presumptuous Insect
This question epitomizes the unthinking, and as you say, cowardly political dynamics that got us into this mess in the first place. Wars and unsolicited attacks against others without thoughtful (more like any) deliberation in Congress and without public knowledge is doomed to failure, as well as ripe for reprisal. Why is it these supposedly “well educated” individuals cannot understand these most basic elements of human behavior?
“Improving the world can be a nasty and ugly and difficult and dangerous business…because when you improve the world, you threaten the entrenched interests of evil people.” – Stefan Molyneux
“Why is it these supposedly “well educated” individuals cannot understand these most basic elements of human behavior? ”
Been wondering that for quite a while and have come to the conclusion that I call the Ivory Tower effect. Just throwing it out there. It seems that any “above average intelligence” person who comes to hold the office of president comes to believe that by virtue of that office any edict or order they give is inheritantly correct and unassailable. Most of us have encountered people like this in our workplace, in a much smaller scale of course, when a new manager takes the reins and changes everything thinking this new direction will have the desired effect simply because he/she is the smartest one in the room. Sure fits President Obama, along with several former presidents and vice presidents. In short the office goes to their heads.
Because greed trumps everything else.
Another possible example of the great danger posed by Iran.
Iran consistently displays the most dangerous tendency of all – they LEARN from history.
Learning is the most hated threat to the Corporate States of America and the other members of NATO.
People hate what they don’t /can’t understand. Woe is democracy!
Thank you for your article and the tabling of the document.
The tor browser will not show the document.
Whilst I understanf redactions of individual names , there are a number of redactions of the document supplied, that make little sense from the unlearned reader’s perspective.
Without going into specifics,could you explain the general reason(s) for these groupings of redactions? .
The focus of the trilateral effort, which was kicked off by the VTC, is the
the The respective NSA-ISNU and CCHQ-ISNU
bilateral relationships had gotten to the point that each participant recognized the need for
the trilateral engagement to advance this specific topic. The trilateral relationship is
limited to the topic o-and will serve as a proof of concept of this kind of
engagement.
Potential Landmine:
1′ long advocated that it work with NSA and the ISNU in a
trilateral arrangement to prosecute the Iranian target. SID policy has been opposed
to such a blanket arrangement, and this specific trilateral should not be interpreted
as a broad change of approach. In other areas, NSA and CCHQ have agreed to
continue to share information gleaned from the respective bilateral relationships
with ISNU.
No comment on the redactions?
Why publish a document that looks like it was censored by the CIA in the first place and then not say why you took out the truth and hid it?
Have you working with the government agin Mr Greenwald?
Did you run this document before the Government for approval?