(updated below)
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, January 8, 2015, on Charlie Hebdo shootings:
“When a trio of hooded men struck at some of our most cherished democratic principles, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, they assaulted democracy everywhere . . . They have declared war on anybody who does not think and act exactly as they wish they would think and act . . . . they have declared war on any country, like ourselves, that values freedom, openness and tolerance.”
“Ottawa threatening hate charges against those who boycott Israel”
The Harper government is signaling its intention to use hate crime laws against Canadian advocacy groups that encourage boycotts of Israel.
Such a move could target a range of civil society organizations, from the United Church of Canada and the Canadian Quakers to campus protest groups and labour unions.
If carried out, it would be a remarkably aggressive tactic, and another measure of the Conservative government’s lockstep support for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. . . .
The government’s intention was made clear in a response to inquiries from CBC News about statements by federal ministers of a “zero tolerance” approach to groups participating in a loose coalition called Boycott, Divest and Sanction (BDS), which was begun in 2006 at the request of Palestinian non-governmental organizations.
Asked to explain what zero tolerance means, and what is being done to enforce it, a spokesperson for Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney replied, four days later, with a detailed list of Canada’s updated hate laws, noting that Canada has one of the most comprehensive sets of such laws “anywhere in the world.”
Has a #JeSuisBDS hashtag started trending yet on Twitter? Under the new Charlie Hebdo standard — it’s not enough to defend free speech; one must praise and even express the speech targeted with suppression — have all of the newfound free speech crusaders begun organizing pro-Israel-boycott rallies in order to defy these suppression efforts? In a zillion years, could anyone imagine the popularity-craving officials who run PEN America bestowing one of their glamorous awards on advocates of the Israel-targeted Boycott/Divestment/Sanctions movement? The answer to all of those questions is and will remain “no,” because (as I discussed last week here with Bob Wright) the Charlie Hebdo ritual (for most, not all) was about many agendas having nothing to do with the free expression banner under which it paraded.
In that regard, Stephen Harper is the perfect Poster Boy for how free expression is tribalistically manipulated and exploited in the West. When the views being suppressed are ones amenable to those in power (e.g., cartoons mocking Islam), free speech is venerated; attempts to suppress those kinds of ideas show that “they have declared war on any country, like ourselves, that values freedom, openness and tolerance.” We get to celebrate ourselves as superior and progressive and victimized, and how good that feels. But when ideas are advocated that upset those in power (e.g. speech by Muslims critical of Western nations and their allies), the very same people acquiesce to, or expressly endorse, full-scale suppression. Thus can the Canadian Prime Minister pompously parade around as some sort of Guardian of Enlightenment Ideals only, three months later, to act like the classic tyrant.
As I’ve argued many times — most comprehensively here — all applications of hate speech laws are inherently tyrannical, dangerous and wrong, and it’s truly mystifying (and scary) that people convince themselves that their judgment is so unerring and their beliefs so sacrosanct that it should be illegal to question or dissent from them. But independent of that, what we see here again is the utter foolishness of endorsing such laws on pragmatic grounds: they will inevitably be used against not just the ideas you hate but the ones you like, and when that happens, if you cheered when such laws were used to suppress the ideas you hate, then you will have no valid ground to object.
UPDATE: Various Israel devotees such as David Frum spent the morning insisting the CBC story is false, and now the Canadian government has followed suit, issuing a statement denouncing it. Unfortunately for them, the full email exchange between the CBC reporter, Neil Macdonald, and a spokesman for the Public Safety Department can be read here, and it proves that the CBC story is 100% accurate.
Photo: Ben Stansall – WPA Pool /Getty Images
Steven Harper is a hypocrite as far as I am concerned. It is OK to offend one particular group under the guise of freedom of speech, but when you say something against a country or group the government favors (in this case, Israel), it is labelled as hate speech? Why the double standard? Height of hypocrisy if you ask me.
The harper government is such an embarrassing bunch of fuck ups and is only in office because Paul Martin was also a gigantic fuck up. Lets try NDP for a term or two next election and see how they do.
I am so disgusted with this Government’s hipocracy and how they have taken us from an honest broker on the world stage to a right wing Fanatical nation.
Any natural hidden power will open up at last. If you try to resist it, soon it will burst out.
Another country of low morals declaring the murderer be protected while the victims suffer in silence.
About which BDS movement is this article referring? Is it the Nazi BDS movement of the 1930s or the Arab inspired BDS anti-Israel movement to Belittle Defame and Slander the world’s sole Jewish state?
Either way, what does BDS really mean? For some it means to Belittle Defame and Slander the world’s sole Jewish state.
For others it means Boycott Divestment Sanction.
I’m a firm supporter of BDS that means to Buy Defend and Support Israel against the evil Jihad being waged against it.
that also proves that both the government and Frum are pathetically blatant liars.
It looks like Canada’s “John Yoos and Jay Bybees”, even if they aren’t able to turn a boycott into a hate crime the way Bush’s lawyers could interpret American law any way they liked, want to scare people into thinking they can. Doesn’t look very ethical to me to misrepresent the law to citizens that way.
-“Officials would not say whether they would like to see the hate speech laws used against those who promote boycotts of Israel. The debacle is raising questions about what exactly the government meant.
One hate speech scholar suggests the government may have been trying to exploit the boycott issue to demonstrate its strong support of Israel — especially since it ought to have known that a hate speech case against someone advocating a boycott of Israel would be highly unlikely to survive a court challenge.
“There is no possibility of conviction under the hate speech ban in the Criminal Code for advocating a boycott of Israel, divestment and so forth … not at least without something more, something else that might possibly be considered hate speech,” said Richard Moon, a law professor at the University of Windsor who specializes in hate speech and freedom of expression.”
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/05/11/why-did-blaneys-office-cite-hate-speech-laws-as-tool-to-fight-israel-boycotts/
Because it is so ridiculous, the equating of BDS with hate crime, opponents of Israeli war crimes may be suffering from shock, just trying to get their heads around the governments even floating the idea. But I think we’ve learned from the US example. If Bush and Obama can “legalize” torture, then certainly western governments can normalize any manner of viciousness:
-”Ehima Osazuwa, McMaster Student Union President, rejected the suggestion that the boycott should be considered a hate crime. He said “to suggest that McMaster students participated in some form of hate speech, by exercising their right to peacefully congregate and utilize the democratic mechanisms of their student government, to declare an opinion on an international event is simply egregious.”
Osazuwa added that the boycott has been “a divisive topic for students at McMaster” and made clear, in a press release that the student union does not endorse “a boycott of the state of Israel.” The press release stated the motion “compels MSU to: Commit to identifying and divesting from companies that support or profit from Israeli war crimes, occupation and oppression of Palestinians.””
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/mcmaster-student-union-rejects-suggestion-bds-campaign-is-hate-crime-against-israel-1.3069051
What a crew of hypocrites, we call the Canadian Government.
Enough of this fascist state of PC. Boot out Harper so we may live free again.I do not like to be told what to beleive in and who to beleive in!!! Even under threats!!!
By next fall all canadians will see the light and throw out this fascist govt.We are free people and we are not to be told what to beleive , who to beleive under threats .!!!
An even more alarming development in Canada is found in the recent revelations that the RCMP view indigenous activist groups as “bacteria”. http://aptn.ca/news/2015/05/07/idle-movement-like-bacteria-says-internal-rcmp-document/
A clear lineage exists from the “vermin” label that was once common in North America and which I see applied by some Israelis to Palestinians.
As a Canadian I am sickened by Harper’s policies and postures and I hope that a new government will soon begin the process of redressing First Nations grievances and restoring Canada’s reputation at home and abroad.
NYT recently ran awful piece on BDS movement and Jewish students. This from Electronic Intifada captures the problem:
This guy Mr harper looks very stupid to me. I just can’t believe how this men is the primer minister.
Militant Zionist groups are infiltrating and spying on American BDS activists:
http://electronicintifada.net/content/documents-reveal-zionist-group-spied-us-student-delegation-palestine/13130
I find it guite humorous all these supporters of Islamic Terrorist asking….no, DEMANDING that no one buy even a cookie from ISRAEL, for fear that the ghost of TERRORIST YASSER ARRIFATTY !!
SORRY, most civilized people don’t get in bed with terrorist and murderers. You want to support these animals, fine…go over there and fight with them !!! But don’t badmouth the only Democracy in the MIDDLE EAST.
It is Campus Watch, an organization founded by Alan Dershowitz, that keeps an eye on professors and what goes on on university campuses. It is quite common for supposed students in a class to gang up on a professor, shut off any discussion in class and continually report on a professor to university authorities. Many professors are intimidated, quite obviously, and certain issues are never addressed.
Then there is UN Watch and NGO Watch and God only knows who else they’re watching. All in the name of free speech.
The eye of Zion.(Sauron)
They sure have a hold on western politicians,huh?Blackmail,bribery or blacken your image.
Wasn’t there a movie in the 40’s from Hollywood,which dealt with Nazi student police?I think Robert Young was the bad guy.Jimmy Stewart?Ah,the Mortal Storm.
I hate haters!
Free lunch, free drinks, free advice, free speech, free ride … all you are told is that you don’t have to pay for any of these, that all. There is no other expectation of the word free herein.
For your consideration:
AIPAC-backed amendments add to trade bill turmoil
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/trade-bill-israel-aipac-117815.html?hp=t3_r
And of course, the Canadian gov’t would also apply this rule of good/ungood speech to the Keystone pipeline. If the Houston FBI office can label pipeline opponents as environmental extremists, certainly it would be in the Harper gov’t’s interest too, since they have an interest in pumping the stuff south.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/12/revealed-fbi-spied-keystone-xl-opponents
Because what are friends and neighbors for?
Don’t worry, CN, it’s covered:
miniprod sez doubleplusgood
BDS has nothing with free speech apart of abusing it.
BDS is all about hate of Jews and Israelis. It is willing to hurts Palestinians working and depending on Israeli firms in the process of demonizing Israel.
BDS has announced that they will not stop their actions to isolate Israel even if and after there would be a Palestinian country.
Just like other Muslim trends and organizations, BDS is abusing the freedom of speech in order to spread hate against Israel. This is not free speech this is an organized campaign to hurt Israel economy.
Harper understands the difference. Most of the people reacting here, do not or don want to. Fine, just remember that Israel is not the final target of the Islam. US and Canada are and Europe is within a grasp. Now go ahead and support BDS and their free speech and we will see where we are all in 10 years’ time.
The hate crime laws do include the phrase “anyone who incites hatred” …
On the other hand , you’re off the hook if the statements made are true.
Hmm… so this would only work if you were making up lies against Israel … which many muslims actually are , I believe.
:)
Check your facts people. Check your facts. Makeing up BS in canada in public announcements is illegal.
Makeing up BS in canada in public announcements is illegal.
Then why aren’t most of your politicians, especially that odious ass Harper, in jail?
Even if that were so, it is their right. Governments do not properly address themselves to determining political truth for the citizenry. Individuals have the right to proclaim their political opinions and claims without any legal assessment by the state.
@Mona
The CRTC (Canadian Radio-Television & Telecommunications Commission) makes illegal the broadcast of “false or misleading news” by licensees. As a result, Fox News, which is not licensed by Canada, can broadcast in Canada, but Rupert Murdoch’s attempts at opening up a Fox style network inside Canada failed, because they could be prosecuted for broadcasting “news that the licensee knows is false or misleading and that endangers or is likely to endanger the lives, health or safety of the public.”
@Kevin
So the laws are different in Canada regarding broadcasting false news. But even if BDS is making up lies about Israel (and plenty of BDS members are non-Muslim, and Jewish even), I’m not sure they fall under the jurisdiction of CRTC regulations and can be prosecuted for lying.
A cure much worse than the disease.
It’s not so bad actually. It makes sure that “news” which the public is supposed to trust, can remain trustworthy. Kevin’s proclamation that “Makeing up BS in canada in public announcements is illegal” is actually not true. He is literally making up BS. Murdoch tried very hard to change the CRTC “news” rules, and failed, and then he gave up on News in Canada and left. This was back in 2011.
“The Commission further reminds the public that for the Commission to take action on a complaint relating to the broadcast of false or misleading news, the breach of the false or misleading news provisions must be flagrant. ” Despite Kevin’s apoplexy, I think BDS is fine under existing laws.
No, it is very bad; inherently wrong. Government should never be empowered to decide what news is true and what isn’t. It is inevitable that bad will come of that.
Government doesn’t decide what speech is true. Government can prosecute, but the court decides.
But in any event, I will grant you, that Canada, or for that matter, most countries (France included), don’t have the free speech provisions afforded by the 1st amendment of the US constitution. It’s almost a uniquely American thing, believe it or not.
And I just wanted to mention, Canadian public institutions are fucking fantastic. The “public good” seems to be a serious consideration, in most decisions.
More comments from the lie factory,you guys make Pinochio look pug nosed.Heil Yahoo!
There is a difference between the two sides which you have unfairly glossed over. Jews have never murdered people for making fun of them or arguing against them. Muslims routinely do that. Therefore pro-BDS speech is not mere speech, it is speech hand in hand with gangsterism, and SHOULD be restricted or banned.
You can see David Frum in action on CSPAN.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?305586-1/911-false-flags-black-ops-evening-debate-
There’s a difference between speech that offends and speech that causes actual damage or loss.
That’s why in the US, Nazis were issued a permit to march through Skokie IL, at the time home to thousands of Holocaust survivors, but you can’t yell “fire” in a crowded movie theater.
That’s a completely different argument, irrelevant to the use of “hate speech” laws to try to suppress political advocacy, isn’t it?
I suppose any country could seek damages for speech that results in loss of reputation and economic harm. But then, imagine all the countries that could plausibly make such claims. It’s unlikely suppression of political advocacy on such grounds could succeed in court.
Yes you can, if the theater actually is on fire.
Skokie was a holocaust survivor rest home for thousands?Does not compute.
Money is the bad guys only language,and hurts them to the core,hence the borg opposition.
Here is a confused article
Tasha Kheiriddin feigning concern for Palestinians because it’s boycotts that harm Palestinians, not the occupation:
– “BDS boycotts often hurt the very people they are supposed to help — Palestinians who depend on Israeli jobs that produce the goods subject to the boycott. In a case that made international headlines, the Sodastream company — famous for its ads featuring actress Scarlett Johanssen — relocated its factory from the West Bank to southern Israel in October 2014, following a dip in sales for which BDS activists gleefully took credit.”
But Kheiriddan thinks that civil suits are a better way to fight BDS, if the Canadian BDS movement is effective, take them to civil court, because that’s what they do in Israel:
– “Would any of this warrant the prosecution of boycotts as hate crimes in Canada? Only if they violate our laws. More effective than criminal charges might be the option of fighting them in civil court, an approach which recently got the green light in Israel. In April, the Israeli Supreme Court upheld a law allowing civil actions for damages caused to individuals, businesses and organizations by BDS activity.”
Because even as Kheiriddan counsels the use of civil court, she says BDS equals “promoting violence or hatred”:
-”In other words, there are plenty of ways for those adversely affected by BDS to fight back. Exercising one’s freedom of speech does not extend to promoting violence or hatred, and if it causes economic damage, its authors need to pay compensation. A boycott should not be a free pass to wreck livelihoods — or lives.”
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/05/11/can-a-boycott-movement-qualify-as-a-hate-crime/
To sum up, BDS harms Palestinians (Kheiriddan doesn’t mention the military occupation)
But she doesn’t think hate laws should be used against BDS “unless they violate our laws”…I guess a “Duh!!!” is in order here.
And finally the solution to resisting BDS boycotts says Kheiriddan, is somehow to get the Canadian courts to follow Israeli laws and for them to order the Canadian BDS movement to pay compensation to the Israeli companies that lose business as a result of boycotts.
-”Exercising one’s freedom of speech does not extend to promoting violence or hatred, and if it causes economic damage, its authors need to pay compensation. A boycott should not be a free pass to wreck livelihoods — or lives.”
Kheiriddin reminds me of that episode of “violence or hatred” in 2003, …no not the Iraq invasion, the American call for a boycott of French products:
-”American politicians are calling for a boycott of French wine and bottled water because of the French government’s “ungrateful” opposition to war in Iraq.”
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/mar/31/Iraqandthemedia.marketingandpr
I’m marvelling at the logic that leads her to conclude that the only acceptable boycott, is an ineffective one,….We could extend that logic to labour disruptions, maybe unions should only be able to go on strike if they don’t cause economic damage, if they do, then that is “violence or hatred” and the unions should pay compensation to the owners!!!
Here’s the Israeli court making it illegal for Israelis to support boycotts in their own country…and making it illegal to peacefully boycott even in the occupied territories.
It is interesting though, some of the logic, Some point out that some BDS supporters are against a “two state solution” and are thus “delegitimizing Israel”. People who can remember that the PM of Israel just some weeks ago came out with the same position against the “two state solution” will find that funny:
-”Beinart said that since Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu assumed power in 2009, this law, the Nakba law, which penalizes groups that commemorate the Palestinian Nakba, or catastrophe as they refer to the creation of Israel and their losses in the 1948 war, and the threatening of left-wing professors indicate a dark turn.
As for any moral support from four justices who appear ready to defend boycotters of the West Bank from the law’s provisions, he said, “Four is better than none, but the law being approved overall is certainly more troubling than comforting.”
He also added that the ruling would not deter him as he viewed boycotting the West Bank as “preserving the two-state solution and Israel” versus what he said was Netanyahu’s undermining of the peace process as helping the BDS movement and one-state supporters grow in power.”
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/How-will-High-Courts-ruling-on-anti-boycott-law-affect-BDS-398401
It is no mistake that similar language is being reported as existing in the TPP agreement being negotiated.
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/12/the_10_biggest_lies_youve_been_told_about_the_trans_pacific_partnership/
“In that regard, Stephen Harper is the perfect Poster Boy for how free expression is tribalistically manipulated and exploited in the West.”
I agree with that, and I would say “hate crime” is manipulated in the same way as “war crime”. At the same time, I still believe war crime charges, as well as hate crime charges have their place. I think both crimes describe dimensions of criminal actions that are not captured by other descriptions. That hate crime, or hate speech laws are abused, I don’t find a compelling reason to do away with them. If someone spray paints “Joanie Loves Chachi ” on a door, I would want that to be measured differently than if someone spray paints a swastika on a door. One, is vandalism that a home-owner will need to pay to remove, one is a threat of violence to an entire group. If right wing Western governments pursue investigations of hate crimes against Jews, more vigorously than investigations of crimes against Muslims, I find that a failure not of the laws, but of the people enforcing them.
If one sort of law needs to be retired, I would argue that it is “war crime” that is more open to political hypocrisy and abuse, appearing to be victor’s justice, or a weapon to be used mainly against black nations and enemies of the West.
I’m thinking of the Khadr case, a 15 year old, convicted in a makeshift tribunal, of charges that were invented, after the supposed crime. And the crime? An invading US soldier was killed in Afghanistan, and the evidence…tortured and coerced.
“He was finally charged in 2007 “as an unlawful enemy combatant” with crimes invented by the U.S. Military Commission Act of 2006. These are not crimes under international or Canadian law and were not even crimes in 2002 under U.S. law. In any event the U.S. accusations had never been proven in a property constituted court.
In October 2011, in exchange for Omar Khadr confessing to these charges, a U.S. military tribunal sentenced him to eight more years on top of time served with the condition that he could apply to return to Canada. Since Khadr’s confession was extracted after over nine years of torture and mistreatment, it cannot be a valid determinant of guilt says Edney.
Khadr’s case was a violation of the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of the Child, which places special importance on protecting children, even those in custody according to Edney
Gail Davidson of Lawyers Rights Watch, a local spokesperson for the new committee, said:
Canadian authorities wrongly persist in claiming that the illegal Guantánamo Bay sentencing gives them the legal right to continue to imprison Omar.
The Supreme Court of Canada and the U.S. Supreme Court have confirmed that his rights have been violated by the U.S. and Canada.The UN Committee against Torture called on Canada to honour our legal obligation to provide him with compensation for the violations confirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada. Canada has a legal duty to release Omar and ensure that the violations of his rights are investigated and remedied.”
http://rabble.ca/news/2013/04/why-omar-khadr-still-jail
Free speech doesnt mean you can insult anyone you want, it is my right to boycott as a protest if I feel there is some injustice. If you dont agree do whatever u like but dont enforce your opinion on me
OK, so on one side we have people being gunned down and killed in cold blood.
On the other we have a speculative email.
Yes, Palestinians being killed in cold blood is truly awful.
Just like the threat of prosecution for those protesting peacefully against those killings.
Your kind is against “killing of Palestinians by Jews”. And the key part is “by Jews”: where were the protests about massacres in the Palestinian refugee camp in Syria by ISIS? You will protest anything “… by Jews”, and do not care at all about Palestinians. Just name ten Palestinians without google. And compare with how easily you’ll name ten Jews. Old boring antisemitism, so conservative and traditional, just in a search of a new form.
For comic relief: Stevie and the Conservicats Sing With a Little Help from Big Fear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzst_vy49xM
Here is the message. People who are offended protest; they don’t fire at you with semi-automatic weapons. It is ok to use free speech to stand up to Islamist extremists who would who would slaughter the writers at Charlie Hebdo and any one else who criticizes their religion. Free speech is the only “weapon” that can assure our society never submits to, or in any way normalizes, that kind of oppressive behaviour under the guise of political correctness.
BDS is the very anti-thesis of free speech. In all of the university campuses in which it has gained a foothold, BDS has stiffled the free speech of Jewish students who oppose it. BDS’s actions on these campuses go beyond anti-Zionist rhetoric,to singling out and descriminating against Jewish students. Its actions are nothing more than racist anti-Semitism. The idea of free speech and BDS go together like oil and water. BDS suppresses any speech that opposes BDS’s agenda. The Canadian government has every right to stop BDS oppression, and to combat Islamist intimidation and oppression.
Robert F. Good Answer! Thank you.
Stop.
Here’s the message-
A non-violent approach to protest an illegal occupation and illegal land theft, and innocent people being fired on with fully automatic weapons, shells and bombs scares the heck out of Israel so much that they are encouraging western governments to violate their core principles.
Then, supporters of those violations of core principles trot out unsubstantiated and false claims to try ((and fail) to defend it.
Even if many BDS supporters are anti-Semitic and suppress others’ right to speak freely, the government, and you, are wrong to suppress the freedom of _all_ BDS supporters to speak and wrong to criminalize the entire movement. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
It appears to me that you are saying that the BDS movement on campus is associated with killing people with guns. If you believe that, then for the sake of consistency, you must agree that supporters of Israel such as yourself are associated with the policy of intentionally killing civilians in their homes and covering it up.
You are either lying, or not very intelligent.
“or not very intelligent.” – gets my vote.
No, I did not say that. I was responding to the article, which referred to two separate free speech issues. Whether it’s ok to confront Islamists head on who respond to cartoons of Mohammad, not by protest but by firing semi-automatic weapons and mass murder. I said it is not only ok to, but failing to do so enables them to have their murdeous intimidation institutionalized into society, allowing it as an accepted norm.
The remainder of what I said, in the second paragraph, applies to BDS.
Responding to your second comment, there have been articles in every major newspaper that BDS suppresses opposing views on campus, particularly from Jewish students. Often through intimidation. It’s grown to be a major issue.
The narcissist cries foul.
Opposition to BDS fails because the cause is more than worthy.
I also understand that non-violent protest is confusing for the supporters of Israel …
Claims without substantiation are typical.
Who, what, where, when did this “suppression” and “intimidation”?
Better hasbara, please. The Hasbara Manual (yes, it’s real and I’ve read it) says that when dealing with intelligent and well-informed interlocutors you have to be careful about your claims. Many of us follow the BDS campus movement and know participants are not stifling anyone’s speech, including that of Jewish students.
So, Robert, how do you feel about Campus Watch, the Jewish organization that monitors what goes on in classrooms and is known to harass professors that are not properly obsequious to the Zionist line? How about a defense of free speech here?
First of all, I sincerely hope I’m not writing this just to see my comment go unpublished, as was the case for too many of my latest posts, and I hope so not because these posts are so goddamn important, but because it’s really starting to piss me off to lose my precious time for nothing looking up sources and thinking of pertinent arguments that are, contrary to a lot of what I’m used to reading here, absolutely not ego-related…
Now, as to the fact of the matter…
There’s one sorry evolution your article doesn’t mention, and a crucial one at that, which doesn’t affect Canada only : if, by October 19 (federal election day in Canada), voters grow tired of Harper (which, if we are to believe the latest polls, doesn’t seem to be the case right now), they can still choose one of his contenders. That’s the basic virtue of democracy, isn’t it ? But what policy will they get instead if said contender gets elected ? The exact same one !
Trudeau, Harper’s main contender, already expressed his endorsement of C-51, the famous anti-terrorism bill the Canadian federal parliament just passed in third reading, despite major opposition from civil society groups, a whole kebab of former PMs, as well as dire warnings from official privacy guardians.
On the BDS matter, all three major parties are on the same line :
“The BDS movement, like Israeli Apartheid Week, has no place on Canadian campuses. As a @McGillU alum, I’m disappointed. #EnoughIsEnough” (March 13, 2015)
https://twitter.com/justintrudeau/status/576465632884981760
“[…] Canada, a country where the federal Liberal and NDP leaders also oppose BDS, appears to have lined up more strongly behind Israel than any other nation.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-cites-hate-crime-laws-when-asked-about-its-zero-tolerance-for-israel-boycotters-1.3067497
As this holy alliance of parties – merely reflecting, one could argue, the global consensus on economic questions – is far from anecdotal, the “civilized (=Western) tribes” are left wondering what kind of democracy is actually ruling their lives, and what good it actually does blaming one man (however sold to the oil lobby he may be) for the dereliction of an entire system…
Furthermore, as these restrictions on free speech come with an ever more radical shift to the far right in Israel, one can but wonder 1) which vision for Israel Western governments are endorsing; 2) to which degree the far right’s “ideal” is dominating all major pro-Israel circles in the West (Their unequivocally backing the latest war on Gaza should be an indication…); 3) by extension, to which degree this “ideal” might have (once again) permeated so-called Western elites; 4) by which concrete mechanisms this ideology has infiltrated Western centers of power; 5) to what these circles owe their legitimacy, and in how far they are representative of non-Israeli Jews; 6) what Western nations and progressive Jews have to gain in the process.
Your article is isolating Canada, but in a globalized environment, looking at the latest impediments the BDS movement is facing in a panoramic way reveals a confounding synchronicity…
– In Israel itself :
“On Wednesday, Israel’s Supreme Court upheld key provisions of the country’s “anti-boycott law,” which makes it a civil offense for people or groups to advocate boycotting Israeli or settlement products, institutions, or individuals, and the advocacy has a reasonable chance of succeeding. The decision legitimizes violations of the rights to freedom of expression and association, and punishes advocacy urging businesses to respect international law.”
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/04/18/dispatches-israeli-supreme-court-upholds-anti-boycott-law
– In the U.S. :
“With little notice, anti-BDS directives were injected into the “Fast Track” legislation that passed the Senate Finance Committee Wednesday night, despite broad opposition to the bill […].
The passed amendment has not yet been made public, but Josh Ruebner, policy director for the U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, told Common Dreams that Cardin’s office confirmed that the language was based on the Senate legislation S.619, which states:
To include among the principal trade negotiating objectives of the United States regarding commercial partnerships trade negotiating objectives with respect to discouraging activity that discourages, penalizes, or otherwise limits commercial relations with Israel, and for other purposes.”
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/04/23/us-lawmakers-quietly-advance-legislation-penalize-boycott-israel
– In France :
“In February 2010, the penal court of Bordeaux convicted Saquina Arnaud-Khimoun for labeling Israeli products with the sticker “Boycott Apartheid Israel.” The court ruled that she had “hindered the normal exercise of economic activities by making a distinction on the basis of nationality.” […]
However, in July 2011, a court in Paris acquitted Olivia Zémor, a member of the group EuroPalestine, for posting a video on the internet showing Palestinian and French activists wearing t-shirts calling for a boycott of Israel. Zémor was brought to court by four organizations, including the Israeli Chamber of Commerce.
The Paris court ruled that calling for the boycott of Israeli products is not prohibited under French law. The tribunal said that “Criticism of a State or its policies cannot be regarded, in principle, as infringing the rights or dignity of its nationals, without seriously affecting freedom of expression in a world now globalized, whose civil society has become a major actor, and since no ‘criminal offence against a Foreign State’ has ever been established under substantive law or international common law, because this would be contrary to the commonly accepted standard of freedom to express opinions.” ”
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/france-penalizes-boycott-of-israeli-products/2012/07/12/
Knowing how publicly ingratiating France’s current administration has proved to be towards the Israeli government, for them not to follow suit would come as a surprise. Under the previous admin, a simple circular letter was sent by the (outgoing) Attorney General to all public prosecutors, urging them to consider the activities of the BDS movement as being subject to prosecution under articles 225-1 and 225-2 (§ 1, 2 and 4) of the French penal code.
(from Thomas’ French counterpart : )
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do;jsessionid=B76B3DB010D4E60A86B0835F3BA3A6B1.tpdila11v_3?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070719&idArticle=LEGIARTI000006417828&dateTexte=&categorieLien=cid
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000026268210&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070719
There’s some raw irony in this legislative evolution dictated by the executive branch, in that the same person would later, as head of the French State Dept., advocate sending special police forces to tame Tunisian insurgents during the Arab Spring…
But aside from that, what is this law (passed in 1977) saying ? It punishes any discrimination of individual citizens on grounds of, among many other things, their alleged or actual ethnicity or national ties/origins. The minister’s circular letter was meant to make clear the latter was precisely what BDS was guilty of.
(in French : )
http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/2010/11/19/il-est-desormais-interdit-de-boycotter_694697
But the law (voluntarily ?) contains a loophole : ‘political opinions’ are one of the other criterion mentioned as grounds for discrimination…
In your Guardian piece (the one you refer to at the end of this article), you wrote the following :
“It is not possible, nor probable, but certain – 100% inevitable – that empowering the state to imprison people for the expression of “hateful” ideas will be radically abused, will be exploited to shield power factions from meaningful challenge. Demanding that Google or Twitter suppress ideas specified by the state is the hallmark of tyrants.”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/02/free-speech-twitter-france
As far as BDS is concerned, the question is of a different nature, at least according to current French law : if, as the aforementioned examples show, a law is confusing enough to let any judge decide for himself whether to rule against person A on grounds of discrimination, or not to rule against person B because the ruling itself would be discriminatory, 1) isn’t any such ruling politically motivated ?; 2) aren’t the rule of law and the equality it is supposed to imply in se invalidated ?
Among all entities most likely to abuse power, thus censorship, the state comes first, because, despite it selling itself to oligarchs, it is still the most centralized form of power (of which, by the way, said oligarchs are now pulling the strings).
As I’ve made abundantly clear in the previous lines how skeptical I am of the state, I would nonetheless like to make the following comments / ask the following questions :
A/ What do you consider an idea to be, and when does the state, according to you, exceed its legitimate prerogatives ?
Some of your latest stances on freedom of speech seem far less monolithic than the opinion you expressed in that earlier piece, but since you’re referring to it again, the question seems valid.
Example 1 : a Twitter user states all members of the ADL should be killed, and he’s promising a reward to the people who’d kill them.
Example 2 : in a particularly violent rap song, a young Muslim claims synagogues aren’t only temples of prayer, or places where Jews study theology, but also recruitment centers for the IDF (which, in some cases, at least in France, appears to be true…), and that all Muslims should regard them as such.
Example 3 : a neo-nazi revisionist is publishing a book in which he states that the state of Israel is based on one big lie, and that it should therefore be eradicated.
Example 4 : in a famous sketch written thirty years ago, talented French comedian Pierre Desproges made fun of the Holocaust. The audience was laughing cheerfully at his depiction of a pretentiously reluctant Jew when came bath time…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWMYDhIzvkI
Example 5 : in his latest rap song, a young Muslim states synagogues aren’t only temples of prayer, or places where one studies theology, but also recruitment centers for the IDF.
Example 6 : a pro-Palestinian academic shows up on TV claiming what Israel did to Gaza last summer is to be likened to what the nazis did to the Warsaw ghetto, and that, since a majority of Israelis supported the bloodbath, they are all equally responsible for its consequences.
Though the opinion of the guy in example 5 is probably the one with the greatest potential destructive impact, his merely calling for eradication cannot be translated into fact, whereas the guys from examples 3 and 4 can remotely convince some twisted mind to take action, while remaining ‘clean’ themselves. Equally possible is that their expressing those opinions has no consequence whatsoever. Knowing that, should the state await potential consequences ? Wouldn’t it be accused of doing nothing (by one community or another) while it had the knowledge and could have acted to prevent, say, a murder ? If so, wouldn’t that give additional arguments to specific lobbies ? Doesn’t the state have to do something when a direct threat is issued ? If so, what can/must it do ?
Should the state treat all forms of expression in the same way ? Are artistic expressions forbidden ground for the state ? Is the humor from example 1 the same as, say, Streicher’s, or even Dieudonné’s ? Is humor always well-intentioned ? Can it not itself feed hatred ? Should ‘the times’, the political context, be an indication of what type of humor a society/a state should tolerate ?
When state officials read example 6, there’s only one conclusion they can come to. This is not the case regarding examples 1 and 3. In order for them to label the opinions expressed in these examples as anti-Semitism, they have to interpret them in a way that is favorable to their own beliefs, the state’s beliefs. In other words, they have to crush these opinions (and the ones expressing them) by giving them a different, or even opposite, meaning allowing them to censor or condemn something that has not been said or written. They have to transform irony into affirmation by denying it the benefit of the doubt, thereby not only vilifying people with trumped-up charges, but also impoverishing language itself, of which only their technocratic variant remains tolerated.
Now, here’s my main question to you : is it not a little too intellectually comfortable to remain on the surface of things with general Manichean statements about freedom of speech vs. censorship, or the state vs. the harmless little hatemonger ? Wouldn’t a casuistical review allow a more nuanced picture ? Or would making any distinction of any sort between these six examples mean opening Pandora’s box ? In other words, is example 6 equally worth defending as example 1 ? If so, doesn’t that undermine the latter, which is slightly more elaborate and critical of power ?
Moreover, you keep advocating free speech in general, but I’m sure you too would like, for instance, homophobic hate speech to vanish. If you didn’t, why would TI have published an article like this one : https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/07/black-writers-confront-online-racism/ ?
In that perspective, the question that comes to mind is : what is/are the cause(s) of hate speech ? Many governments point out outdated, inadequate, education methods, but instead of lamenting the near absence of critical thinking training, they (Vallaud-Belkacem, for instance) prefer resorting to good old hierarchical authority. Why isn’t TI asking this question ? Not asking it makes it look as if you consider all is fine and well, and nothing can change. Asking it, on the other hand, might lead to the conclusion some powerful groups (and even the state itself) have a vested interest in maintaining the “two minutes of hate”…
B/ “Nothing has been more destructive or dangerous throughout history – nothing – than the power of the state to suppress and criminalize opinions it dislikes”, you wrote in the same Guardian piece.
I can think of at least six alternatives to your statement (not all of which, however, are fundamentally contradicting it) :
1/ Nothing has been more destructive or dangerous throughout history – nothing – than the slow alignment of all supposedly democratic forces of popular representation behind one particular orthodoxy.
2/ Until now, nothing had been more destructive or dangerous throughout history – nothing – than the power of a central institution – religion, state, i.e. – to own the monopoly of public opinion.
3/ Nothing was more destructive or dangerous – nothing – than the power of the state to suppress and criminalize opinions it dislikes, until multinational corporations became omnipresent, along with mass entertainment, both diffusely leveling the cultural playing field to the Gaga-point, forcing most indie record shops and book stores to close shop, and taking over most independent TV and radio stations, making it almost impossible for any dissenting opinion to be heard/read, and for any opinion to remain fundamentally dissenting once it has succumbed to the call of the conformity-producing-and-inducing entertainment apparatus carrying the promise of a meaningful audience.
4/ Nothing has been more destructive or dangerous throughout modern history – nothing – than a majority of the people left uninformed, or not caring where their government/their country are headed.
5/ Nothing has been more destructive or dangerous throughout history – nothing – than obscure, unelected, interests leading a country to war.
6/ Nothing has been more destructive or dangerous throughout history – nothing – than the confiscation of wealth, power and knowledge by a tiny minority.
A couple of things:
Having looked at this story, I think it may be jumping the gun to say Harper’s government is going to pursue hate charges. They got one guy who said this was happening is not a spokesperson for the safety minister. While I am no fan of Harper and I wouldn’t put it past him to try to press these charges, there is no other indication of the pursuit of these charges.
In looking at the charges highlighted in the email exchange, I think if the Harper government did try to pursue them, they would be in for a long road. As an example, saying I am boycotting Israel over something I find morally objectionable and they committed crimes against humanity would not classify as a hate crime. However, saying I am boycotting because all Jews are filthy shit eaters who fuck their mothers and suck their father’s dicks would be a different story. Notice the differences? Setting aside that saying that about jews is a complete lie and hugely inflammatory, the big difference is that Israel is not considered a minority group. Jews are, at least in Canada. The law itself seems pretty obvious to me so I doubt charges would actually stick if pursued.
I am wondering if this may be an attack on the idea of hate speech laws in other countries. I have heard it argued these type of laws suppress free thought but no one has ever cited an example of it or they just don’t want to point out something especially heinous by someone they wouldn’t want to be said. To me, hate speech laws do what they are supposed to do. Protect some of the most vulnerable of society. Hate speech can go a long way to really affect people personally and there are many cases of suicide over a constant barrage of hate speech. One could call some of it harassment but the lines are becoming blurred when it comes to a country like the US which has been struggling with hate speech and the first amendment for a very long time.
I suppose that the first thing to be done is to Boycott, Divest and Sanction Mr. Harper.
BDS HARPER… that sounds good, but what would sound even better would be to hear Mr. Harper said that “Palestine hasa right to exist.”
Mr. Harper is a scary man. and — is Canada’s anthem ‘OH CANADA?” If yes; Oh Harper, Oh Canada, Oh Humanity!
People at all times must be free to promote government approved ideas – I don’t think anyone disputes this. If you are unsure whether your idea is in fact approved, the best solution is to simply repeat something you have heard a government spokesperson say. This may limit your range of expression, but it reduces your chances of making a serious error of judgment.
Another useful method – since I realize many people lead busy lives and can’t spend all their time listening to government spokespeople – is to repeat what most other people are saying. The majority is right, as often as not. Even more importantly, it can be dangerous to be right when the majority is wrong.
So follow these simple rules and free speech will not be a problem.
The salt is strong with this post. I just feel you are missing the point about the PEN award. It is not saying everyone should support it. It is saying PEN can support it for the reasons they believe a ‘free speech’ award can honor. It is very narrow.
It just seems odd to possess an ‘argument that is premised on the audience being rational and respecting nuance, but not granting that to PEN.
Most Muslims are like “We’ll take a kicking for the world to go on ticking,” while some (very few) are like “Fuck you insulting us, we’re prepared to die defending our faith, and defending our home countries against Western intervention and looting, which your ridicule of us facilitates.” It seems both responses are reasonable, and in fact the former is remarkably and surprisingly humble, although on no account can the violent response be deemed justifiable (in my opinion).
But Zionists are like “We’ll take no criticism, at all.” And some of their lunatics are killing defenseless people just as the Muslim nutcases are. And the West supports corrupted Zionism and its murderous behavior with arms. money, and international protection ON AN INSTITUTIONAL LEVEL.
If the watchword is “accept criticism of your violence-facilitating belief system as sensible, and modify your behavior accordingly” the Zionists are failing to even recognize the validity of the criticism itself, let alone admit and begin to correct their faults – because Zionism has corporate/military/institutional support – thus the playing field is not equal in this regard, and the charade of all this being about free speech is bullshit, utter bullshit.
What the corporatist/militarist/Zionist West needs is humility, and what the Muslim world needs is to more fully own its largely meek response as a decent thing which ultimately wins out over violence by shaming it away.
Stephen Harper and his party have cognitive dissonance and appear to be conspicuously Christian Zionist. Canadians are generally likeable, but their government is presently compromised in a way similar to the US – all 5 eyes countries’ systems are being plagued with establishmentarian moral ruination – by authoritarianism, corporatism, militarism and (more than anything) cowardice.
Read charitably, the email might be taken as a threat to rigorously punish “hate speech” violations by groups involved in what the official thinks is an anti-Semitic cause, rather than a claim that boycotts and divestment from Israel is innately illegal. Nonetheless, so long as foolhardy censorship laws exist, people will be prone to assume the worst, usually with good justification.
What I know is that in the U.S., we made the biggest strides against racism at a time when some popular politicians still freely used offensive racial epithets. Once the censorious people came in, all concerned with appearances and never with essences, that progress ground to a halt. Today it is practically a newsworthy story whenever someone says the magic word to indicate a racist sentiment, and so wretchedly substandard schools for minorities are a status quo that goes without comment or concern.
Banning hate speech is the most effective expression of hate there is. It riles up racist outrage for the martyrs of their cause. It validates every cockeyed conspiracy theory as something that is true that the government is covering up. And it allows the masses to slumber oblivious of the issue, never suspecting anything could happen until the moment it becomes violence and the targets are left to flee for their lives.
in case someone else hasn’t mentioned this:
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Anti-boycott-bill-becomes-law-after-passing-Knesset
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/High-Court-rules-on-boycott-law-398206
i’ve seen talk here and there about making it an international tactic as opposed to just bullying peaceful activists within their “borders”. must be that thar “lawfare” i hear so many folks talkin’ ’bout.
funny how even the israeli version of this stupidity only threatens civil lawsuits whereas for harper that isn’t enough: you must be ostracized, punished severely and wear the scarlet letter of “HATER” as long as the “Harper Government” sees fit.
i’m sure the approaching election and the groveling for donations that accompanies it have nothing AT ALL to do with the conservatives turning their israeli ass kissing to 11.
Fwiw CBC reporter Neil MacDonald is the brother of former SNL Weekend Update anchor Norm MacDonald.
Yes, really. How sweet it is.
So, if someone holds no malice in their heart and/or mind they will be treated more leniently than if hatred was involved in their motivation? Foolishness at best and unconstitutional in prosecution. We also have crimes in the US where hate is considered as to the severity of charges. Once again, foolishness. Add to that, the unequal manner in which the laws are applied, is being used as a way to shape and control the official narrative, allowing the government to tighten their stranglehold on its version of the truth. As any thinking person has learned, truth is unassailable, while holding several perspectives, it remains the truth. How many of you have tried to climb back up a slippery slope? We’re part way down that slope, and it only gets harder the farther down we go.
“So, if someone holds no malice in their heart and/or mind they will be treated more leniently than if hatred was involved in their motivation?”
Yes, I think anti-Semitism, racism can be aggravating factors, the basis for separate charges, and grounds for harsher sentences. Someone who in attacking individuals is motivated to harm a whole community will be treated more harshly.
Unfortunately for the high priced lawyers sent to convict the United Church of Canada, and the Quakers the underlying “crime” here, what is it? Not buying Israeli products? Selling their shares in Israeli companies?
I understand your argument but layering crime upon something already illegal based on what’s in someone’s heart somehow doesn’t ring true. I will ponder your argument some more and see if I can learn why to me it doesn’t ring true. Something I am unable to articulate presently is antithetical to what I believe, in regards to hate crimes, including hate speech. I have been very uncomfortable since the inception of bringing additional charges for hate motivated speech and crime, and without persuasive arguments delineating the need for such, I’ll have to remain true to my first reaction.
It is the idea that just speaking of BDS will bring about a further ‘poisoning’ of Israel, IMO. That is why I am against ‘hate’ crimes receiving harsher punishment. Take a gay man’s assault; one man’s ‘hatred’ is another man’s ‘domestic violence’.
Israel perceives everything to be an existential threat so they feel they are justified in any response to the perception.
The Israeli statements made in justifying the most recent war on Gaza are eerily similar to statements made by US soldiers who followed lawful orders and participated in the free-fire zone that was My Lai. Based on Israel’s willingness to treat Gaza as a free-fire zone, why wouldn’t Israel execute a charismatic BDS advocate? What would be the difference between a drone strike on such an individual and the one upon Anwar al-Awlaki ?
People like this and American congress/govt makes me sick on how low they will go and bend constitutional rigjts and freedom to please a terrorist state like israel.
Sincevwhen is it a hate crime to expose the criminal act of a country? How come that law does not apply to Iran or did not apply to Iraq or Libya? Oh wait, i forgot, these are Arab/Muslim countries, they are not protected under the freedom of speech/expression act or hate speech act.
Such clowns like Harper, our McCain, Rubio, Boehner etc belings in the zoo,
As someone who vehemently disliked the PEN “dissenters” on the Charlie Hebdo award, I want to say I find this actually far more outrageous for the reasons listed.
I know the framing of “free speech for Muslims vs. free speech for westerners” is used here a lot, but there are still some consistently minded free speech people out there. They’re the ones to root for. :^)
If the metric is potential consequences, yes. I continue to find many of the rhetorical attacks on Charlie Hebdo, and of its PEN award, outrageous.
That said, for Western governments to ban a political movement such as BDS by legally classifying it as “hate speech” is of much greater import than the narrower (but very real and important) (deep) chilling of the right to commit one species of blasphemy.
“If the metric is potential consequences, yes”
For the record, yes, this is what I meant. Nicely stated with your second paragraph.
Agreed, and well put. In terms of clear thinking, it’s a big problem when these categories are falsely conflated (state sanction vs. illegal murder). As you say the former has a far bigger impact, structurally, then the latter. Which is why I think the exigency behind Hebdo is entirely out of proportion (murder isn’t sanctioned). To make a slightly tangential comparison, it’s like #BlackLivesMatter vs. #BlueLivesMatter. Cop killers don’t operate with impunity. That’s the difference. But it’s also further complicated by the fact that the attack on political cartoons is entangled with the global war on terror. Speech is a component, but it’s political centrality is murky at best. So when it’s elevated as the key issue, “free speech rights”, it strips the context.
Did you not understand the point of the PEN dissenters? Do you not realize that the Charlie Hebdo organization gleefully ridiculed Muslims, while firing a man who criticized Israel?
Neither of those claims are true. Charlie Hebdo never “ridiculed Muslims.” It committed blasphemy in its depictions of Mohammed.
As for the other, this is what happened according to The Telegraph:
I do that all the fucking time. “Neither…*IS*”
heh, heh
There is most definitely a malodorous touch of anti-semitism in that “quip.” But I wonder if the “blasphemy” bits are devoid of anti-Muslim bigotry also. Although neither should be censored, in my opinion.
But Jesus, that line is quite potent with all kinds of distasteful, hick, provincial, backwoods racism. Pretty disgusting actually.
Agreed. I can see a magazine wanting to fire someone for that “quip.” But government prosecution is outrageous.
By the way, the job of a spokesperson is to never repeat the stupid things the boss says, but rather seamlessly substitute in true words of wisdom. Our State Department has had a couple of really good spokespersons during the Obama administration. They move on to better paying jobs, of course. The Canadians, well, certain of their pop stars need good spokespersons, and they probably pay much better than the government. That is the source of the problem here.
…and that is why his government has just been d-throned and it is not likely the new government has been bought & paid for too and thus a mute point just like Harper’s government if one could call it that….
I mean, on the face of it, you’d think that proposing hate law prosecutions against a peaceful boycott divestment and sanctions movement, would have most government supporters dying of embarrassment. And then there is the hypocrisy, when will it be a hate crime to propose more sanctions against Iran? But really, if “hate crime” means anything, the West need look no further than Israel’s justice minister Ayelet Shaked.
“Israel’s new justice minister considers all Palestinians to be ‘the enemy’
After all, Shaked is about to gain a cabinet post in a climate in which an Israeli former foreign minister can call for the “beheading” of disloyal Arabs with no political cost and in which warning of Arabs “voting in droves” helped Netanyahu’s Likud party win Israel’s general election earlier this year.
“Shaked is going and taking her place in the pantheon of the extreme right,” says leftist Israeli legislator Michal Rozin, “and represents an ideology where her own racism doesn’t embarrass her.””
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/israels-new-justice-minister-considers-all-palestinians-to-be-the-enemy/
I wouldn’t say hate speech laws are wrong, per se, Just as I don’t think speed limits are wrong, but if I heard of the Canadian government singling out visiting Israeli drivers with a special speed limit law, I don’t think I would find it any more comical than this hate crime idea:
“Hate crimes that entail violence, threats of violence, or the destruction of property are acts that would be criminal even absent any motivation based on a bias against a protected group. But what the Conservative government is reportedly talking about here is using hate crimes laws to enforce acts that would not be criminal if motivation were set aside.
…Won’t fining or imprisoning BDS supporters stop the anti-Semitism that animates the movement? Pretty unlikely. For one thing, I have serious doubts that such prosecutions would stand up to constitutional scrutiny: Can you imagine the current Supreme Court upholding a jail sentence against a devoted Quaker for leading a consumer boycott that he intended to help Palestinian refugees? But even if using hate crimes laws against BDS supporters were legal, it still wouldn’t solve the anti-Semitism problem. You can’t legislate away pernicious ideas; though you can help entrench them by making martyrs of those who express them, and giving them legitimacy by suggesting they are important enough to warrant outlawing.”
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/marni-soupcoff-on-the-government-charging-bds-activists-do-we-believe-in-free-speech-or-not
“stop the anti-Semitism that animates the movement”?
Wow.
Those critical of the threatened prosecution making false generalizations that smear a legitimate movement for justice are on seriously thin ice.
The extreme injustice that animates the BDS movement being dismissed and conflated with anti-Semitism is itself hate speech based on a lie and undeserved stereotype, but shouldn’t be considered for prosecution either.
Still, with “defenders” like these…
I had to read this sentence more than once to see if I was misreading of if there was some irony or sarcasm or something in it to make it not an actual sentence saying exactly what it says. ‘ “Won’t fining or imprisoning BDS supporters stop the anti-Semitism that animates the movement?” ==JLocke BDS movement is anti Semitism? I have no words.
In case you didn’t notice, JLocke posted the quote from someone else.
I hope my comment doesn’t make it seem like I was criticizing him…
No, I didn’t notice. It appeared to me that JLocke was responsible for those words that I responded to.
The fact is that in many college campuses in which BDS has taken root, Jewish students have been singled out for their Jewishness, regardless of whether they have a connection to Israel or not. If this is not racism and anti-semitism, then we need to reexamine our definitions of such. And claiming that BDS is artificially being conflated with said antisemitism is at best naive, and at worst part of the racism.
That is quite possibly one of the most vapid and stupid comparisons I have heard online in 2015.
I’ve been telling left-wing supporters of hate speech laws for years that these laws were going to eventually reach the pro-Palestinian cause. The only possible way to prevent such occurrences is to forbid the government from prohibiting any opinion or mere idea.
It is kind of funny, Israel refuses to let South Africa’s education minister visit Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. It seems those Israeli actions don’t rise to the level of “hate crimes” in the eyes of Canada’s government. And now the Israelis are upset about South African schools joining the BDS movement in response.
“’Student councils of 5 South African universities join BDS campaign
Campus leaders say they will be auditing universities’ investment funds and service providers to keep out companies ‘complicit in the Israeli Occupation.’
…The decision came shortly after South Africa’s minister of higher education, Blade Nzimande, called for a boycott of Israeli academic institutions last month after Israel refused him an entry visa, saying he is radically anti-Israel and was planning to visit the Palestinian Authority rather than Israel. “
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/1.654962
“planning to visit the Palestinian Authority rather than Israel.”
What? he wasn’t going to use Gaza’s International Airport?
how rude and anti-Semitic.
History repeats itself. When the movement to divest in businesses doing business with then-apartheid South Africa began, it faced the very same opposition, from the very same elements, which is to say, from racists and the business community, and their lackeys in government. But thanks to his amazing hubris, Netanyahu is confirming the very worst charges against him, and in so doing is effectively countering his numerous defenders in the press. As more and more people come to accept the truth, the divestiture movement will gain strength, and pressure to stop providing economic and military aid to Israel will have the desired effect. Let us look forward to the day that the Israeli government finds it necessary to give in, and pursue a righteous course in its dealings with all its citizens and with its neighbors.
Are sanctions by US and other countries on Iran hate-speech?
One dumb Canadian makes a completely hollow threat that absolutely no one takes seriously and you’re equating it to a global movement supported by millions to murder anyone who dares to criticize the second largest religion on earth.
Your emotionalism is worrisome. What if we applied that thinking to Miranda rights? The article is about equitable standards and you’re resorting to “how can you ignore how awful this group is!”. That’s basically a study in how to miss the point when it comes to rule of law.
GG is the one who brought up Charlie Hebdo and continues to minimize what is clearly the biggest global threat to Freedom of Speech
That is completely nonsensical. You can’t say “Well he brought it up, ergo any argument I want to make using the name “Charlie” applies.” He brought it up for a specific reason in a specific argument making a specific point. Address the actual article.
Address what? As usual with Canadian news, nothing happened. Much Ado Aboot Nothing
I can’t tell if you’re being evasive or if you genuinely don’t get this. The article is about applying freedom of speech standards equally. How much you like any group involved has nothing to do with that (or it shouldn’t). As an analogy, if you wrote an article about someone not having access to a court appointed attorney, and I jumped in and said “But that person was accused of raping a woman! Rape is a serious crime that impacts many women every year, are you some kind of misogynist?!”, that would be tangential to the point you were making. If your argument ties in to this article, I’m not seeing how.
Yeah – just a random Canadian. The spokesman for the Public Safety Minister. Just a guy.
The groups supporting the boycott of Israel take it very seriously, as well they should.
Here again we find the new line people in the west have been trained to accept: it’s no big deal if western governments threaten and impose censorship programs, as they’re doing en masse. It’s only a big deal when some rogue, stateless Muslims use violence.
That way, we get to feel like only They, but not Us, are the Bad Ones. Such tribal self-satisfying joy.
“The spokesman for the Public Safety Minister. Just a guy.”
“The groups supporting the boycott of Israel take it very seriously, as well they should.”
Name one person who was even slightly intimidated by this glorified PR man
Why?
No. As between the two, Western nations banning BDS would be of infinitely more consequence. As hard as I fought against the Charlie Hebdo critics, I’d be far more alarmed — and oppose with greater energy — Western attempts to criminalize BDS.
Yes. But it should be noted – without comparing it to CH-like attacks – that even threats of this sort from the government to prosecute a movement or those who believe in an idea can be extremely chilling, even if those threats aren’t ultimately carried out.
Indeed. Rather than disingenuous attacks on the CBC, the Harper government should be strongly repudiating the statement of the spokesman for the Public Safety Department.
“absolutely no one”…”supported by millions”…careful. that guy could possibly be the most powerful psychic that world has ever seen. don’t let him get to cerebro!!!
“global movement supported by millions”? HAHAHAHA. thanks. i needed that.
I think there is a spokesperson who is looking for a new job. Reading comprehension: 0. Political comprehension: 0. Interesting that the CBC story was declared false rather than the result of a mistake. That should result in someone else getting fired. Of course it is possible that there are no better qualified genuine conservatives for the jobs.
So, now that they’ve been called out, they’re trying to deny it. Typical nutjob conservative response.
I sense the election donations from the Canadian Jewish community flowing in to the coffers of our principled Conservative Party as I write.
This is just the beginning of overt boots on the ground. The spider is getting ready to wrap up its victim good and tight. The U.S. /U.K. merged regime will be the next in line. Too sad.
Just signed on to the anthropologists’ boycott document. I had a series of concerns about it previously, and so had not added my name, but the hypocrisy of the Harper government has worked its persuasive magic on me.
Such fair weather friend-ery is certainly not laudable. It’s like when you volunteer at an event, and there are always those people who show up after all the set-up is done, strut around like they did all the work during the fun part, and disappear before clean-up. I have no problem with people who represent themselves honestly in this case. If someone thinks the Hebdo case specifically was enough to merit protest, outside of any free speech claims, fine. But if you want to claim to represent free speech it’s not your freaking trophy wife. In sickness and in health, when defending easy and difficult things, and all that. Even when I disagree with TI’s core staff (can’t speak for all of them as I’m not familiar with all of their work) I appreciate that they have demonstrated considerable real world work and risk-taking that aligns with their stated beliefs.
Harper and his government are so in need of a “cerebral enema”…they can not keep track from one day to the next the rants of a disturbed government / leader…His followers are corrupt….he is corrupt…and they are corrupting the reputation of this nation
Glenn, what you’re describing is what George Orwell called “doublethink”, both in the assertion that “freedom” excludes disfavored points of view, and in false equivalences, e.g., BDS = terrorism.
It also is the Canadian gov’t’s demonstration that it has the power to determine what’s officially good and evil — and will enforce it. The fact that they’re this brazen about it simply reinforces their point.
I suppose I should insert a quote by Holmes or Brandeis about free speech, but it’s too late for that.
from CBC
I love Canadians. Let’s give them an award for their willingness, courage even, to stand with the French in Standing with Israel.
maybe they can go even further and make the first arrests in montreal. sacre blue and white flag!
That’s what will demonstrate the hypocrisy of this sort of law–is calling for a boycott of any country’s government “hate speech” by definition, or just when that boycott is aimed at Israel, the chosen nation? Or does only the “state” have the apparent authority to say who people may or may not choose to spend their money with? Someday will we be forced to buy things from Israel and/or set up manufacturing in Israel, because to not do business with/within Israel is by definition “hate speech?”
This is a very bad idea, and I will continue to take every reasonable step I can, as I’ve been doing for a long time, to make sure I buy no products made in Israel and that none of my retirement savings accounts hold Israel based company stocks or bonds.
It recently occurred to me, while reconsidering the merits of the BDS concept, that I’ve been unintentionally boycotting Israeli products for most of my life. Now it is intentional, but I fear Israel won’t know the difference. Maybe I should start buying some, so I can make a point of stopping.
Maybe you could just write a letter to the Israel Foreign Trade Administration telling them why you, as someone who believes in the concept of Israel and a member of the Jewish faith, is now intentionally choosing not to purchase Israeli made goods or permit your financial investments to hold Israel based companies’ stocks or bonds.
Your “fear” that Israel won’t know the difference is only true until the BDS movement starts having an aggregate effect on the Israeli economy. Which it can and could. Whether it will or won’t is a function of how many people make a conscious effort to join the BDS movement, whether formally or informally.
To quote one of the greatest human beings to ever walk the earth:
Damn, RR, had I known my quasi-flippant remark would prompt a serious response that forces me to consider getting off my ass and actually doing something, I’d have kept my mouth shut.
had I known my quasi-flippant remark would prompt a serious response that forces me to consider getting off my ass and actually doing something,
Hasn’t that always been one of the dangers of participating in the comments of a GG article? ;-}
Attacks on Islam and Muslims have always been considered free speech.
And anything said in defense of Islam and Muslims has always been labelled hate speech.
Stephen Harper is a great example of the hypocrisy.
He is a great example of some who incites hate against Islam and Muslims in the name of free speech and at the same time silences all those who disagree with his hate against Islam and Muslims using his hate speech laws.
Perhaps when the BDS folks receive death threats and are felled in drive-by shootings, there would be a reason for PEN to consider the BDS participants as displaying exceptional courage for continuing their calls for a boycott. So far, this looks like a standard government-censorship incident. PEN has lots of those. BDS will have to stand in line if it wants an award.
But you do make a good point that laws against hate speech are dangerous. In my opinion, they can be mis-used to suppress ideas, and therefore should be used rarely. In my opinion, choosing to boycott is not illegal, so calling on people to boycott should not be illegal.
Although Jews and Israel certainly have been targeted many time by pure hate, some of the objections currently aimed at the government of Israel are based on the actions of that government, not against the religion. If Canadians feel that the tone of their protest movements is the problem, and they don’t like the raucousness of their southern neighbor, perhaps they could discuss the kind of language that would convey ideas while avoiding gratuitous insults. For myself, I have no problem with “Fuck the draft” signs, but I can see that more decorous countries might prefer “Down with the draft”. Surely the Canadian Quakers would be willing to use words that qualify as “opposition” rather than as “hate”.
Yes, exactly. Glenn is so very right about the sickness of those who will defend (or at best, be untroubled by) Canada’s going after BDS advocates after shrieking how very Charlie they are. But there is an astronomical difference in the two cases. Fear of a government fine, and fear of slaughter, are two different things.
Absolutely, Mona. And thank you for taking the time and emotional energy to pursue the discussion in so many posts over so many days. I have appreciated your comments immensely.
Amazing how threats of prosecution and imprisonment for expressing prohibited ideas is no longer a big deal when it comes to free expression violations, nor is getting fired and having your career ruined. Only getting gunned down by rogue Muslims counts now.
Getting killed by anyone is the worst outcome. Persisting in expressing ideas, in the face of threats of murder and examples of carrying out those threats, is extremely brave. Prosecution and imprisonment by the government is certainly a big deal, as are getting fired and having one’s career ruined. Yes, those outcomes count, too. But they are reversible to some extent. Not completely, but somewhat. They do have a serious and permanent impact on a person’s life. But the biggest impact is death. Irreversible.
Why do you want to turn this into a black-or-white argument? Why do you claim that I count government persecution, prosecution, and imprisonment as no big deal if I count death as the worst outcome? Why do I have to be totally against your position if I am not 1,000% for your position?
This isn’t necessarily true. Maybe on one level it is. But if the Canadian government means to ban an entire political movement — BDS — on the basis of hate speech laws, that’s a very, very big and pernicious deal.
Is there?
Astronomical adjective
1) of or relating to astronomy
2) (of an amount) extremely large
Mona’s usage example
“The difference between a person having his or her earthly existence ended as a result of a free speech act versus being prosecuted, incarcerated, fined and/or having his or her economic existence ended is, well, astronomical.”
To quote Inigo Montoya, “astronomical . . . you keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means.”
It is technically and accurately a difference in kind or category. But in terms of real world effect on a person’s “life”, it is only a very small matter of degree, in my humble opinion.
I think there is a pretty big difference between having to pick up the pieces of one’s life and having no life to pick up the pieces of.
Oh FFS. It’s the difference between bullet-riddled bodies and a relatively small fine. Which threat is more courageous to risk? Which consequence most affects families and friends of the risk-takers? Somehow I doubt the friends and families of the slaughtered would quibble over my use of “astronomical.”
So, Mona, you believe that all that is at stake with these sorts of laws is a “relatively small fine”?
In America they’d call that a possible “felony” not just a “relatively small fine”. You should get your facts straight.
And notwithstanding your “FFS”, we can agree to disagree, civilly, on the appropriateness of the use of the word “astronomical” in this context. If you believe that ending up dead is so very very different from being impoverished and/or incarcerated, then I’d say you’ve never been either or both of the latter.
Being dead happens in an instant generally. The torture of incarceration and economic impoverishment can last a whole lot longer. And while I’m sure no family member would ever suggest there isn’t a difference between the two, again, trust me that having family members incarcerated and/or impoverished is like having family members who are functionally dead in many ways. I have personal experience with both.
OH FFS indeed.
Incarceration would never have any significant effect on a family who depends on a head-of-household for shelter, food, and health care, so astronomical it is …
Yes, I believe that ending up slaughtered is worse than what are usually only fines for suppressed speech in Canada. Imprisonment is quite rare.
I had in mind the families of the Charlie Hebdo victims when I employed “FFS.” I am deeply offended by functional diminishment of their suffering or the loss of life to the dead.
Oddly, I don’t find condescending pedantry especially civil.
@Mona “I am deeply offended by functional diminishment of their suffering or the loss of life to the dead.”
I don’t think anyone is diminishing ‘their suffering’ or ‘the dead’.
I cannot see elevating such feelings over other losses. The bereaved are just that.
We don’t need martyrs. That’s too tribal …
re ‘condescending pedantry’. I know! The last thing you need is a cloak over your muddy arguments with RR:)
Right, like the financial loss of a relatively small fine. Anyone saying one is more serious than the other is just wrong.
@ Mona
Maybe we were talking past each other or my writing wasn’t clear. My point was never that a small fine is like death. My point, was that my understanding of the possible consequences of enforcing these sorts of laws included felony level incarceration, relatively bigger fines, and as Glenn noted the very real risk of losing career and livelihood. Taken together, and by comparison to death, and, again, while those things are different in kind the effect it has on a life, in my opinion, is closer in degree than fairly characterized as “astronomical”.
And if you mistook my first statement as “condescending pedantry” it was intended as a sharp jab to someone I respect for trying to argue a point by employing the least harsh possible sanction rhetorically as her point of comparison.
If you were offended, I’m sorry, I was trying to rattle your cage but I didn’t intend to condescend to you in the sense I didn’t think you were capable of understanding the issue. Again, I think we can fairly agree that there is a difference between being under threat of death versus personal ruin, but disagree that they aren’t so far apart in the effect sense as to be astronomical. Both are way up there right next to one another on the scale of bad things that can happen to people as a result of their speech acts. I personally think the state’s systemic attack on it is worse in many ways than a few religiously motivated murders. Again, we are free to disagree on that point civilly as well.
Great Comment!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGT-6nRREQI H/T Kit
Keep up the good work.
R
Why should hate speech laws exist at all? However well-intentioned, there’s no way such laws can be applied objectively and fairly, such that no specific groups are favored or discriminated by those laws.
Ah, a very long and complex subject. I wish there were a pithy, placard-sized answer. I agree such laws are often mis-applied. How would you deal with illogical, fact-free, hate-filled verbal attacks such as “sale Juif” and “[insert slur] go home” directed at specific people for the purpose of intimidating them and discouraging them from participating peacefully in society? Does everybody have to be as brave and self-controlled as Jackie Robinson?
Unfortunately, laws are abused by ALL governments. The British use of Libel laws are an embarrassment to the free world.
As one wag put it, “Consider the majestic impartiality of the law, in that it makes begging in the streets and sleeping under bridges illegal for rich and poor alike.”
PEN is not the proper venue, because it’s a literary association. But here’s the thing: If we were talking about “standard government censorship” in some other countries, awards would certainly be considered. Example: Pussy Riot.
I agree that PEN, an association principally concerned with protecting writers from persecution for what they write, is not really the right organization to be brought up as an example when discussing organizations that call for boycotts. Although I can’t speak for GG, I can say that my impression of what he meant, and certainly what I meant, was that the PEN award can be taken as one example of “how western organizations think” rather than saying that PEN would actually give an award to a group that bravely called for a boycott.
#jesuisBDS
Consistency is just too much to ask for. Nazis in Skokie and MLK in Washington DC, being consistent can be pretty bizarre too.
Here is what Justin Trudeau tweeted recently about BDS.
“The BDS movement, like Israeli Apartheid Week, has no place on Canadian campuses. As a @McGillU alum, I’m disappointed. #EnoughIsEnough”
McGill has since voted not to support BDS. Quelle surprise.
http://bit.ly/1bKnmmJ
That guy. Brought to you by the same people who thought Michael Ignatieff was a good idea.
Martinites, or Bay Street Liberals.
So it seems his party is no better, but that’s happening all over the “free world,” isn’t it? Conservative/Liberal, Tory/Labour, Democrat/Republican. Two faces, one coin.
This is true, more than ever there is no choice. On the ‘big’ issues, terror, Israel, support for The Empire, love of Israel, big business, there is little daylight between Harper and Justin. You should see what Justin wrote about Gaza when it was happening. Rockets, right to defend, blah blah. I tell this to Canucks and man do I catch it sometimes.
The owners, whoever they are, don’t care about gay marriage, or bilingualism, or medical care. The owners care about power, they care about the wealth transfer and keeping those vast herds of little people quiet and out of sight.
And we fall for it every time, arguing about things we should never argue about, and totally missing the big questions and the real problems.
The truly terrifying thing is that both the NDP and Trudeau are probably going run down similar roads. Irwin Cotler, a prominent lib and former Justice Minister, a player in the lib election bid, is a self described ‘good friend’ of Needles Dershowitz.
Even if Trudeau wins (lookly less likely daily) he will only modify the execrable C51 security/spy bill. His support for Israel, although less full throated than the Harperists, is guaranteed.
Thanks for covering this Glenn. We need your voice.
With Trudeau’s suppport of Bill C51, he is losing my vote for sure, even if it meant Harper wins another term.
Mine too. I asked Justin last November for his thoughts on surveillance and got a reasonably good answer. But he is not acting on those beliefs. I have no idea idea what Justin actually wants, nor do I care. No majority PM, who we now know, has the powers of a dictator, should have a secret police force that can “legally” violate a Canadian’s Charter “Rights”.
*use of scare quotes on “Rights”, is quite deliberate, as we don’t see to have any.
Justin said that his father’s use of the War Measures Act, in Oct. 1970, to fight the threat of a few separatiste losers, was “his finest moment’.
Justin will be our Obama, able, with his smiling pretty face, able to do things the utterly repellent Leader never could.
I’m getting a lot of heat lately for my ‘anti’ Trudeau Tweets,”Do you want Harper to win?”
Of course not. But better a loathsome enemy than such a likeable one eh?
Rumours are that the NDP will chuck the entire bill if elected. JT needs to say that. If some legislation is actually needed to fight those verbs, than let’s talk about it as a nation.
I’ll be voting NDP; they represent what is, at least, salvageable of this country.
I’m old, but a relatively new citizen of Canada. Only a few more trips to the polls for me. The Harper government’s talk about equating BDS with hate speech I find very scary. For me, it’s always been a toss-up between the NDP and the Greens. But if the NDP also goes along with Harper and Trudeau on this one, then Elizabeth May’s green ally in my riding will definitely get my vote. In the meantime, I continue to examine labels in the grocery store not only for ingredients but country of origin.
I am a canadian citizen but i have lived most of my life in a certain “third world country”. It surprises me that so called “champions of democracy” are in truth less democratic than most poor nations, where you have more then five mainstream parties with a whole spectrum of views. Whereas in Canada, the two mainstream parties have virtually exact same views on issues that actually matter. Foreign policy, the class divide, taxing the rich and corporations, both parties, and to some extent even the NDP, have the exact same stance on these issues.
“Do you want Harper to win?” is basically what Democrat loyalists say in the USA! USA! USA! to anyone who criticizes President Obama or Saint Hillary of Clinton. The fear industry at work.
I suppose the Canadian government will also prosecute anyone advocating sanctions against Russia.
I don’t really believe in sanctions against russia, I mean this whole Ukrainian crisis is the result of the US, and with regards to isreal they are horrible, they kill thousands of civilians in Gaza o orders from higher up officials, yet we don’t prosecute them for war crimes…and with regards to Hamas, isreal created Hamas back in 1987 so this is just ridicoulus now, they have a right to boycott Israel
Exactly. Are these laws applicable to boycotts of any and all countries, or just Israel? (Rhetorical question.)