Editor’s Note: February 2, 2016
After speaking with two members of Dylann Roof’s family, The Intercept can no longer stand by the premise of this story. Both individuals said that they do not know of a cousin named Scott Roof.
The problems with this story reflect a pattern of misattributed quotes that The Intercept uncovered in stories written by Juan Thompson, a former staff reporter. We apologize to our readers.
DYLANN ROOF, the 21-year-old white supremacist accused of murdering nine black churchgoers at an historic church in Charleston, South Carolina, was captured Thursday morning, ending an extensive 14-hour search by federal and local law enforcement. Roof’s arrest brings some relief to a city and country on edge, following yet another mass shooting.
Roof’s Facebook page, which has been deleted, showed a photo of him dressed in a black jacket adorned with symbols of the racist white regimes that ruled Rhodesia and South Africa.
Dalton Tyler, Roof’s roommate, told ABC News that Roof spoke of starting a civil war and that he advocated racial separatism. “He was big into segregation and other stuff. He said he wanted to start a civil war. He said he was going to do something like that and then kill himself,” Tyler said.
Scott Roof, who identified himself as Dylann Roof’s cousin, told me over the telephone that “Dylann was normal until he started listening to that white power music stuff.” He also claimed that “he kind of went over the edge when a girl he liked starting dating a black guy two years back.”
This scenario recalls a manifesto written by Elliot Rodger, who on May 23, 2014 gunned down six people in Isla Vista, California: “How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me?”
“Dylann liked her,” Scott Roof said. “The black guy got her. He changed. I don’t know if we would be here if not …” Roof then abruptly hung up the phone.
The Wall Street Journal reported that Roof’s family had grown concerned over the last two months as his racist views started to boil over. “He apparently told people that he was involved in groups, racist groups,” said a woman who identified herself as the mother of Roof’s former stepmother. “He turned into a loner in the last couple of years and no one knew why. He just fell off the grid somehow.”
Roof’s uncle Charles Cowles told Reuters that Roof’s father, Ben, gave the alleged killer a .45 caliber pistol for his birthday earlier this year. Police have not disclosed what sort of firearm was used in the shootings.
Roof was captured four hours away from Charleston, in Shelby, North Carolina, after a local florist spotted his car on the highway and alerted authorities.
Meanwhile, Mashable obtained a SnapChat video that was recorded just moments before Roof allegedly opened fire on his victims. The short clip shows a Bible study group sitting around a table. At the far end is a white male who resembles Roof.
The video was taken by Tywanza Sanders, 26, a recent college graduate who was among the nine people killed Wednesday night.
The city of Charleston has multiple vigils planned this evening to remember those who were gunned down.
“If we stay silent,” South Carolina congressman Jim Clyburn told a memorial service yesterday, “they win.”
“They must not win.”
Photo: Chuck Burton/AP
So as I always suspected, when butthurt white guys make the claim that “black men rape millions of white w9men every year”, it actually translates into “I’m mad and hurt because that beautiful blonde that I’ve had a crush on since middle school turned me down and is now dating that tall muscular black guy who is the captain of the basketball team. How dare she choose a black guy with a chance to go to the NBA over a white guy like me who dropped out of school, still live with my parents, possess no social skills, unemployed, misogynistic. I’m the better choice.” Isn’t that what drove Eliot Rodger to go on a rampage, because he was still a virgin at age 22 and saw black men with white women who wouldn’t give him the time of day? Smh, if you have isssues in your personal life, you look into improving yourself, not blame others and then going on a killing spree.
Rodgers was actually angry that he wasn’t fully white and said that was the root of his problems. You need to read his manifesto. And he didn’t targets blacks. He hated everyone equally. You can read it here: http://aaldef.org/blog/elliot-rodgers-manifesto-shows-self-hate-fueled-anti-asian-violence-that-kicked-off-isla-vista-rampa.html
just proves how insecure white males are.
MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell doing a damn good job of digging down into the psychology of racism, hatred. Worth watching. Been thinking a bunch about how the U.S. export of hatred and racism through invasions of Iraq etc infects the world
Humans love to hate other humans. We’ve been hating each other for ALOT longer then the oil war. Didnt you take History classes?
I keep wondering why nobody immediately went for this evil creep as soon as he began to pull out the gun.
I admit that I’m speaking from the standpoint of a veteran who saw a lot of bad shyt however, even if a group is in a setting of calm peace as this setting was, it’s sad that nobody was able to react.
Even though I don’t believe in praying and etc, I do have soft thoughts for all those who lost their lives and those still here in sadness.
They had been SHOT, and SHOCK
I read that he reloaded 5 times. Im not a veteran of any shyt except daily life but I still cant believe that one person didnt go for him in between magazines.
The wording of the remark about the “white power music” invites the understanding that in some way, the music EXACERBATED or CAUSED Roof’s racist feelings, and might even somehow have moved him to commit the crimes he’s accused of. While the understanding that others agree with your own proclivities IS encouraging to strengthen those feelings, we should be careful about rushing to the conclusion that the music CAUSED the tragic event.
(Choice of) music, speech, literature, whatever is always at least as much a SYMPTOM of the actor’s feelings as it is any kind of CAUSE of them.
If “white power” music made this kid commit his racist crimes…than can we conclude that “gangsta rap” causes people to commit crimes too? Seems a lot like the argument that Marilyn Manson made Columbine happen.
So according to his manifesto it was rampant black crime against whites by blacks that caused this massacre?
All of this seeks to give a human face to a terrorist. He is a terrorist and his motives have no value in the face of his actions. Why do we always try give a human story to a white terrorist when black/brown/Muslim men are simply vued as animals or terrorists without a human face when they vomit or not vomit a crime…
Im white and I think hes just as much a terrorist as any brown/black person who kills without it being in self defence. He should be kept alive for as long as possible, with as little food as possible, and put on display once a week for people to throw things at. Keep making an example of him every week and maybe the next disturbed little shit will think twice. Killing him just ends his suffering – let him suffer!
Hell hath no fury like a racist scorned.
Ryan Dalton ?@capetownbrown Jun 19
“A black man stole his love interest” babble is yet another attempt to shift blame from a racist white killer, and onto the black community.
As we said from DAY 1-a SCHOOL SHOOTER
http://theopenlettertoblacks.simplesite.com/
Tell me you’re NOT surprised…
What kind of parent. gives their kid a gun in the first place…! A parent knows when their child is acting weird.
so true
I’m all the way in African and I cannot believe this … The nerve of this guy … He iz really twisted… Bt I choose 2 not believe that this is the reality of america …. Its surprising though that such a developed country has very poor gun legislation laws …. Im from Africa n with all the corruption and insecurity … We acknowledge that guns need better legislation
Stay there
English, do you know how to write it?
Just the new Sandy Hoax. The kid was manufactured, the scene set, and the media unleashed like dogs yearning for a steak they have been teased with to make them hungry for attacking.
American breed racism – what’s so hard to figure out?
Yeah, that’s why we have citizens from every corner of the globe living here. America is not racist. You, however, might be.
They’re here for the money.
America was set up by racist, for racist.
Are you saying there isn’t a racist culture in the US? Confederate flags are pretty clear symbols.
AmeriKKKa is very racist. The evidence is overwhelming. People go there for economic opportunity. They even went to South Africa at the height of apartheid.
Via twitter:
The link to manifesto:
http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt
Ugly stuff.
It’s evident from his manifesto that rampant black crime drove him to murder. Blacks making a scene about Trayvon Martin but ignoring the fact that about 85% of interracial murders are black on white.
You are ignorant an truly disrespectful trayvon martin lost his life to the same type of racist person.lets not forget the police shootin the black guy in the back that was in carolina..sad period
Dylann Roof drove Dylann Roof to murder. There’s no record of him ever having been the victim of a crime by a black person, so don’t adopt his own tired excuses for what he did. He’s a weedy little racist loser who got a burr in his boxers when some girl he liked who probably never even knew he existed started dating a black guy, and he completely owns everything he did at that church; don’t try to blame black people or anyone else but him for what he did.
Dylann Roof drove Dylan Roof to murder – Agreed!!!
“The black guy got her” is the most nauseating statement. Women are not objects to be gotten. The intersections of racism and sexism in this terrorists despicable actions are made quite obvious by these words.
His manifesto says something about it:
Maybe I’m being too logical, but if I were a jilted psycho with a gun (I’m only two of those) I’d use the gun on my black competitor, MAYBE on my enamorata for her miscegenative tendencies, and then, if at all just, turn it on myself.
And if I were more devoted to justice, I’d reverse that order.
I remember when I was young growing up in a rural coal mining community in eastern Ohio. I was sitting with my grandmother who was full of wisdom. We were watching a movie and something sparked this comment. “The white women is going to be the downfall of the black man.”
That racist as well!
With all due respect, i’m not sure that your grandmother was particularly wise on that topic; she just sounds kind of racist. Individuals craft their own destinies, and that sounds like a th i’m not sure that your grandmother was particularly wise on that topic; she just sounds kind of racist. Individuals craft their own destinies, and that sounds like a thinly veiled rewrite of the age-old trope that black men lust uncontrollably after white women and will do anything to have them. It’s especially inappropriate here because the girl that Roof was interested in chose to date a black guy of her own free will (women do that a lot, make their own choices), so I don’t think this folksy bit of racism is helpful here.
Looking at Roof’s pictures, he had a lot of rejections in his future, so if shooting sprees against members of the race of the “winner” are how he chooses to handle them, eventually there wouldn’t have been anyone left in South Carolina.
..could be (a possibility?) that black man was an undercover cop using stingray. Something the usa propaganda does not want the usa women to know and this is why stingrays in the hands of nefarious criminals and murderers under the color of law and public office official. Wake up. Snowden pointed it out and it seems the women did not get it nor the men.
.
Black shooter= thug
Muslim shooter= terrorist
White shooter= mental illness
jew-shooter or jewish-shooter against any non-jews= legal and legitimately justified (DIGUSTING)
This is conspiratorial, anti-Semitic bullshit.
He posted the same garbage under Greenwald’s article, which got this pretty funny, and totally apropos, response from Gator90:
“Love interest chose black man over him.” I’d thank her.
More of this “I forgive you for killing my loved ones,” nonsense. Another sign of the liberal-minded times: where tolerance for all things perverse is at an all-time high and good old-fashioned values (e.g., honor, justice and liberty) are at an all-time low. On the subject of forgiving one’s enemies (detractors, antagonists and so forth), I prefer to side with critic Heinrich Heine (1797-1856) who uttered these words: One should forgive one’s enemies, but not before they are hanged.
Dylann Roof aka Pugsley Addams. Moral of the story: Don’t name your kid Dylann or Pugsley.
So, if the “girl he liked” had started dating a white guy, then he would have killed a bunch of white people?
Thanks for changing the headline. The word “stole” in the original headline was deeply problematic because it implies Roof’s romantic/sexual interest in someone meant he owned her.
Of course.
Nonsense. How could use of the word ‘stole’ possibly offend this context? It’s clearly the reporter reflecting the views of Roof, not anyone else’s. And the fact that Roof perhaps thinks of people as objects is part of the story. This is just weird Orwellian censorship.
Ms Setele..
The altered title states that “Dylann Roof’s Cousin Claims Love Interest CHOSE Black Man Over Him”. Why is it that you don’t find it ‘problematic’ that this claim is based on hearsay?
Because it makes for a better news report ;p
Like the hearsay from ppl that Roof called a black woman nigger? Or the hearsay that Roof had been planning this for six months? It’s called reporting what your sources/interview subjects tell you.
Or the hearsay that his father bought the weirdo the gun for his birthday? That was reported as fact for awhile.
Thank you.
Because it makes so much sense.
Isn’t sexual inferiority the secret fear of every racist white male? A fear that is NEVER discussed.
A young man shaped by cultural beliefs that go back to the days of slavery.
Good points, which is what I was attempting, at least in part, to get at here.
Even if it is what would your solution be to fixing it hmm?
Also, I have my doubts that has much to do with racism. Hitler had tons of mistresses and power. He was also intelligent. But racist.
“…sexual inferiority the secret fear of every…” male. No modifier necessary.
White, Black, gay, straight, etc, etc… every male.
There has never been anything that the white MAN envied more than that black man’s penis. And, there’s nothing the white woman wanted more than that same penis. Black men have been hung/murdered for centuries because of the white woman’s thirst to ride a Mandigo….
ha i see what you did there (“black men have been *hung* for centuries”) ha!
Um – no. You really need to get out of the house a bit more often.
This is very much true. Anti-miscegenation laws, punishable by death, were put in place by white males in order to prevent white women from sleeping with black males in fear of genetic annihilation. In fact, there was so much fear of black male sexuality that castration was often used to instill fear amongst slaves and black men’s genetalia were often kept in jars to instill fears in black slaves and as a symbol of power over them.
the irony being that this kid will now have a lot of black “love interests” in whatever prison he gets shat into. pretty sure he’ll “never go back”.
One can only hope…
Lindy West is blowing up about this murder of nine people, this shameless racist, this psychotic killer’s quote about having his crush “stolen” form him as though it’s somehow relevant in lieu of his other, possibly more damaging actions. Some perspective during a tragedy would be welcome, and no one wants to hear about your toxic masculinity men are taught that women are items in society crap. He’s mentally deranged. Men aren’t taught to go on shooting sprees if their crush gives them the cold shoulder. To be even more clear, men aren’t taught that women are THINGS. Otherwise you would have to extend your logic to women claiming that another woman STOLE HER MAN.
C’est vrai.
Please provide source to validate said claim (psychotic killer’s quote).
Much appreciated..
Read the article. I should have said the psychotic killer’s cousin’s quote regarding the psychotic killer’s feelings.
Fuk’n Classic!! You’d like me to read the article that you misread/misinterpreted to begin with??
Your lack of humility becomes you, dipshit..
dong`
Im willing to bet that hes been touched in more ways then one ;p but hes NOT a white supremist. Just look at him lol. All he wants is to cause chaos in the world and then sit back and watch his mind f**k play out. What better way then to portray yourself as a white supremist, on a pretty much blank facebook page, and then go to a black church to murder innocent people while hollering crap he knows nothing about. We love to hate each other regardless of skin color. Everyone needs to be smarter then this little dumbass and DONT LET HIM WIN!
He’s a white supremacist, all the reporting supports that assertion. That FB pic of him tells you all you need to know.
So because the news says its true that means it is? Yea right lol. The fb pic was taken so that people would think he was a white supremist. Same reason he hollered You rape our women and children. He was born two decades after Africas rule changed. Do you really thinks he knows anything about what went on there? I read a news report that left out a whole complete step in Africas white to black power change over. People only get one side of a story so thats what they believe. Sheep. Sad part is that little dumbass is smarter then most of the world.
When a tragedy occurs, one can always expect members of Congress to get face time for commentary. My favorite is Sen. Lindsey G.(S.C.), declared candidate for President: “My niece went to school with him. She said he was a little strange.” Q: Will she be testifying for the prosecution at trial? Can we await other in-depth declarations which will provide insights to explain Dylann’s behavior?
Thank you, Senator…
Ha. yes.
I don’t think anyone owes this kid an American civil war.
While we have this opportunity to discuss the problem facing society today and what those factors are. Here’s one that doesn’t get talked about enough:
Psychiatric drugs. It wasn’t stated yet whether or not this shooter was prescribed, but it seems to be a pattern that these shooters are life-long users of drugs, legal or otherwise. It is confirmed that this shooter did dabble with drugs at least in the recent past.
There is a major problem in this country, and that is the over-prescribing of children with strong physically addictive drugs. We over prescribe these things like mad, because the psychiatric industry is designed to incentivize prescription. Doctors often get payouts from drug manufacturers for every customer they prescribe. While certainly there is a place for psychiatric drugs, the climate as it is today is a race condition to disaster — not every affliction requires the life-long application of drugs.
Do you think it is a good thing for four year olds to take daily dosages of amphetamine? What the hell do you think that child will grow up to be in twenty years? Let’s not call it “amphetamine” because that word is stigmatized, let’s call it “Adderal” and now we can willfully ignore the fact that your child is addicted to “speed”.
Apparently we know how to identify “crazy” people — we certainly know how to shoot them full of drugs as fast as we can — we just don’t know how to get them the help they need before people die.
(Don’t confuse this for sympathy for the shooter — I believe one can be both insane and evil and vice versa — and being “insane” is not a defense for mass murder and never will be — this guy will rot in hell and jail where belongs)
I think that’s a fair point. I’m merely mentioning his drug use and ppl are jumping on me as if I’m making an excuse.
People are angry and frustrated and no one knows what to do so we get jumpy. Say the wrong word in the wrong context and a hundred people will mis-interpret your message and type you a thousand word rebuttal to a perceived disagreement which may or may not actually exist.
I’m trying to be careful, because “mad” “sick” “insane” “psychopath” are all magic words some people may mistake for sympathy or justification, etc. . But it is hard to discuss actions of this type without these words, because whether or not the shooter is legally or clinically “insane”, these actions are pretty fucking insane.
I don’t believe mentioning his drug use or mental illness or lack thereof in any way subtracts from the discussion. All angles need to be understood, especially when we see patterns emerging like we do here.
Luda…I think you can use “insane, psycopath” and terms to describe mental illness as long as it is analyzed, discussed and applied to killers if all races and ethnic groups.
The problem is when it is the go-to analysis for white criminals and not blacks. So I guess the question you have to ask yourself is when blacks are involved in murder, do you have the same discussion.
That goes against all statistics but go off I suppose
Not sure what statistics you are referring to. I didn’t compile statistics so I did not make any claim to correlation, I’m just bringing up talking points. A lot of these mass shootings were perpetrated by users of drugs, legal or otherwise. That is true, to determine a correlation requires more research.
But I have seen the statistics that show ADHD diagnosis rates have exploded in the last decade(s). Do you believe something happened in our gene pool or environment to cause such a dramatic rise in cases? Why do you think the rates increased like they have?
More testing? Someone figured out that there was money to be made from it/others misfortune. People will almost always look for the easy way out. This case being a pill. Anything to help our little “Johnny”. But what if that pill turns Johnny into a living zombie? Turns his skin yellowish and makes their eyes dead looking and makes them even more withdrawn. Diet is a very important factor to the way an adhd person (especially a child) behaves and reacts. So is keeping their mind and body stimulated. Tire them out mentally and physically.
“Do you think it is a good thing for four year olds to take daily dosages of amphetamine?” If that child has ADHD, then yes, absolutely. ADHD is the result of a imbalance between the different parts of the brain and mind. Amphetamine salts are a safe and effective way to help bring them into balance. A few things for you to consider.
1. People with ADHD are more likely to become drug addicts due to a combination of impulsiveness and self medication.
2. People with ADHD who are medicated under a doctor’s care, are LESS likely to become drug addicts when medicated.
3. The dosages, when taken as prescribed do NOT make someone high.
4. ADHD is a well defined neurological condition. If you need proof, just look at the drugs most often prescribed, stimulants such as Amphetamines and Ritalin. Now imagine how a neurotypical person might act when on a stimulant. People with ADHD, on a therapeutic dosage of stimulants are calmer!
I would call amphetamines anything but safe, and it is a physically addictive drug which also has physiological effects, such as appetite suppression and insomnia.
There is something called “Amphetamine Psychosis” which is brought about by prolonged use of amphetamines and/or sudden cessation of usage. Often times people in one of these psychotic episodes will behave irrationally and often violently, sometimes with guns.
I don’t want to get into a medial debate with you on this topic. I’m just saying “science” can be deceiving, and the very nature of empirical study is that is often wrong for generations before new research exposes that truth. The DSM itself is constantly changing. When we’re talking about the science of referring customers-for-life to companies which sell physically addictive drugs, you’d be surprised how quickly money clouds the empirical study. I’m sure most doctors are good guys — not all of them are.
This is not purely speculative conjecture, check out this investigation done by the New York Times a few years back, a very good read. Long story short, there is a practice of “off-label” prescription being conducted in this country which is not driven by a desire to help the patient but driven by a rewards-incentive program created by the drug manufacturer for prescribing doctors. Haven’t read the story in a few years, I may be rusty on some of the details.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/health/10psyche.html?_r=2&
Unfortunately,a real investigation of these drugs will not be forthcoming,as the authors of such a report won’t make it pass the MSM corporate filter of collusion with commerce.
Drugs arent the answer. I was diagnosed with adhd at age 7. Ive never taken prescription drugs for it and Im not a street drug addict. And oh yea, Ive never killed anyone.
My last reply was supposed to be towards Pats comment, not this comment. Damn adhd, should of taken my pills ;p
Why aren’t medications ever the answer? Are they not the answer for cancer? Are they not the answer for bacterial infections?
The answer for cancer is to stay out of cities and dont eat processed/preserved foods :p Cant compare adhd to cancer or infections. Adhd wont kill a person and a person can learn to deal with it properly.
Yes,over at infowars they have an extensive list of psychotic legal drug users crimes.I wouldn’t discount that as a factor either,but obviously this kid had influences untold at the moment.
Is drug use at all unusual in the US population? It would seem to be normal, and one assumes most drug users don’t go shooting up Bible classes and writing racist manifestos.
this from the guardian today:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/25/adhd-dangerous-street-meth-americans-are-getting-hooked
A small note about the Hate Crime v. Terrorism thing: The CEO of the NAACP just spoke, and he was emphatic that this needs to be seen as a hate crime. It turns out there’s a background to this. South Carolina is one of only 5 states in the US that has no hate crime law, and the people of the community that surrounds Mother Emanuel Church have been calling for such legislation for a while. So it’s important to them that this be seen as a hate crime. Call it what you like, but respect them. Related intimately to the hate crime thing is the Confederate flag flying at the Legislature, it needs to go. And the third issue that concerns that community is the proliferation of guns, there needs to be an end to it.
As someone who deals with the aftereffects of quite a different form of violence, I believe guns are not just a vehicle, not just a by product, and not just a result, but a cause and a root cause of an awful lot of violence in the world. And I believe in letting those who are directly in situations of violence, be they church shootings or armed conflict, express their own hopes and their own history. So I think if action on hate crimes, an end to flying that abhorrent flag, and curtailing the spread of guns is what those people say would help, then that’s what should happen.
Surprising, that nobody has yet picked up on the fact that the perp’s family was concerned about his radicalization but nevertheless gave him a gun for his birthday. Shades of Sandy Hook!
Perhaps given we cannot enact any meaningful gun control in this nation, perhaps the next best thing is for the families of the victims to sue the parents of these miscreants for knowingly providing an unstable person with the means to commit their crime.
Excellent point.
They gave him money for his b-day. He bought the gun with it. At least that’s the latest report I’ve read. And apparently passed a background check. He’s not any crazier than any other person who shoots someone.
How did he manage to pass a background check with a criminal history involving drugs? I thought drugs charges were a VERY serious offence in the usa?
UPDATE from latest reports (The Guardian, I think) : His father did NOT give him a gun—he gave him MONEY and the shooter BOUGHT A GUN IN APRIL with that money.
Who is “they” in reference to?
His parents
This tragedy really highlights the serious ills that are deeply seeded in the American society, but let us not be fooled by the shallow intentions of politicians.
Every time one of these shootings happen, the media (except the “right-wing” media) all clamor for stronger gun control. Perhaps the sentiment behind gun control is based on good intentions, but it is naive and dangerous. Can you name one thing the USA government successfully prohibited in its history? We prohibited alcohol – it was the birth of organized crime. We prohibited certain drugs – it was the birth of the “war on drugs”.
Historically, criminals haven’t been known to obey the law (…), so I fail to see how gun control will meaningfully stop criminals. In all fact, gun control will empower criminals: a) law-abiding citizens will be unarmed, defenseless; b) black market prices will go up, incentivizing criminals to acquire and trade even more guns. If one of the churchgoers was armed at the time of this massacre — let’s not delve into the world of hypothetics, but it very well may have saved lives. And there is no sane reason for anyone to say otherwise.
In a world of strict gun control, when an armed criminal begins shooting, who will save you? Hopefully a someone with a clear mind takes the motherfucker out before we have a mass killing, but this is less likely in places like New York City where you essentially need to be a law enforcement officer to secure a concealed carry permit. If there is an active shooter, do you want to wait for the police to respond to solve the problem at hand? Where is the practicality in that? The police are just going to try to shoot the perp themselves anyway — why can’t you or I shoot the perp, potentially saving lives faster?
What kind of nonsense is this that the intelligentsia holds it that only cops can be trusted with guns? I call bullshit.
“DYLANN ROOF’S COUSIN CLAIMS A BLACK MAN STOLE LOVE INTEREST”
Stole? Really? You don’t “steal” people.
It’s a metaphor. It means that the black man took something from Dylann that wasn’t “rightfully” his.
Presuming that “something/one” was rightfully Roof’s… which in turn assumes ownership over another person?
Presuming that “something/one” was rightfully Roof’s… which in turn assumes ownership of another person. Whether it’s a matter of gender or race issues, by now most people would probably agree: ownership over another person is just plain unacceptable.
Yup, and racists aren’t usually known for their language skills, haha!
Thank you, I understand why ppl may have problems w/title, but those are his words not mine.
Not according to your article.
A Bullshit Production
That — the original “stolen” headline, now altered — may very well have been his mindset. It’s primitive, but that kind of twisted sense of male entitlement, of ownership over women, can crop up in certain males, and race may exacerbate it. The UC Santa Barbara shooting, for instance, had similar themes.
Yet that term does come up in love songs and hate songs and broken heart songs.
You Stole My Love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3gQJ9VQ4Lo
That’s all I was saying. Ppl use the term all the time for women and men, and everyone. I think a lot of ppl are just looking for
reasons to be pissed off.
Juanito..
Your ignorance becomes you. How is it that you know of the circumstances of their relationship based on an unverified (“he kind of went over the edge when a girl he liked starting dating a black guy two years back”) statement from this mysterious ‘cousin’? Without the ‘girlfriend’s’ refection on the matter, you can’t substantiate if they ever had a relationship to begin with, so, “got” / “stole” / and “chose” are currently inadequate terms being used to ‘sensationalize’ your tale..
Typical gun-fondling sentiments. These guys always have the same answers to domestic and international problems: (1) more guns (2) more bombs. They did not work in S. Carolina, Texas, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam.
Fool yourself once, ok fool yourself five times, ok… Shall we continue?
The answer is not “more guns” it is “more rights”. Some mad man, a sick homicidal racist, commit a massacre in South Carolina. That is bad, but I didn’t do it, and if I were there with a gun at the time, I would have gone down shooting trying to stop the gunman if need be. Why restrict that option? Is there any way I can benefit from not having access to basic self-defense tools? Who does benefit?
I’m not advocating for every man woman and child to run and buy guns, I’m advocating some common sense. Don’t take away an innocent person’s only line of defense under the naive pretense that banning guns will somehow prevent homicidal maniacs from getting them. Taking away guns from good honest people is certainly a mistake.
RE: “more bombs” — don’t conflate pro-gun with pro-war. I do not advocate for more war, and it is precisely the amount of war we have been waging lately that has contributed to the problem today. Gun’s aren’t this magic corrupter of societies, some convenient poison pill to blame our problems on. That type of thinking is simplistic and likely to get even more people killed — like when we prohibited alcohol. That failed experiment didn’t save any lives, it led to spikes in crime nationwide. Was alcohol the root of the problem or was it something a little more complicated? Did taking the easy way out of that problem lead to a decrease in alcohol consumption at all?
For the record, I am not a gun owner and have never fired a gun. It’s stories like these happening every few months that make me feel like it might be a good idea to buy a gun, for my safety, and potentially the safety of every one around me. Do you think merely owning a gun makes one a bad person prone to violence? That is a false stereotype.
‘”…and if I were there with a gun at the time, I would have gone down shooting trying to stop the gunman if need be.”
Sure you would.
For your info, Tex, when Gabby Giffords got shot in Arizona, an UNARMED WOMAN grabbed the shooters magazine as he tried to reload long enough for the armed heroes to show up.
God bless her, she’s a hero.
RE:”sure you would, tex” – not sure the implication here. We’re talking on the internet. I’m not making any attempt to flex e-muscle, I’m merely stating that a gun in the right hands can save lives. Like I said before, I am not a gun owner. Hopefully I’m never in a situation where a mass shooting is occurring, but if God forbid I find myself there, I hope I have a gun and I hope I can be useful. I would expect any decent person to feel the same way. “Live and let live”.
Relating domestic violence to Americans’ offensive war & torture bingeing conflates nothing.
“These guys always have the same answers to domestic and international problems: (1) more guns (2) more bombs”
This was directed at me, no? Just because I expressed a pro gun rights view you assumed I also am one of the sheep that believe the “War on Terror” is just and righteous? Maybe it is precisely because our government is so radical and murderous that people may want to hold on to their gun rights.
But back on topic, it is possible to be “pro-gun” and not a nut and not “right-wing” or “conservative” and ESPECIALLY not in favor of our undeclared wars all over the world. The “you own a gun therefore you are a George-Bush-loving hick” stereotype is not true, and it is a mischaracterization of the basic right that was promised to us in our Constitution.
@luda 19 Jun 2015 at 4:52 pm
You are right. Having a gun doesn’t make you an American terrorist or even a fan-boy. I got my first gun at Gibson’s Dept. store in Austin at the age of 8 and I’m neither pro-gun nor pro ‘kill ’em all & let god sort ’em out’ and all that.
I popped off at you because you are an American expressing the belief more guns will reduce the number of deaths by gunshot at a time in US history when, well… I have no words to describe most of you… The graves in Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile, Vietnam, Laos, Indonesia, Kampuchea, and Iraq say it better than I ever could.
Some day, bored, young US history students may joke about the drudgery of having to study ‘Kill ‘Em All And All That’ the same way young history students in England study ‘1066 And All That’.
I have a very very strong feeling Jesus Christ would be against,and wonder of the need for, guns in church.Really,the fear is palpable.
Who makes these stupid handguns?
Gun control will not stop the ‘violence’ or more to the point ‘extremism’. Keep in mind Norway has some of the most strict gun control laws, but that didn’t stop Anders Behring Breivik [4] born 13 February 1979) is a Norwegian far-right terrorist and the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks from killing 77 people – his inspiration? – Pamela Geller’s ‘extremism’….
On the other hand the gun crime rate in the US is about 6 times worse (per capita) than in Norway. That is evidence that an absence of guns leads to lower levels of gun violence overall. Figures in the UK and Japan are also very low. But in the US we have to be realistic and start from where we are: there are already millions of guns in the US, so simply trying to ban them won’t work.
The rate of gun violence in the US is about 6 times worse (per capita) than in Norway. The figures are equally low in the UK and Japan which also have very strict gun control. But the US is different – there are already millions of guns in the US, so trying to ban them will not work. We have to find a different approach…if there was an easy answer someone would have done it already!
There is another reason for gun rights not often invoked by the diehard pro-gun camp.
“You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.” – Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WW2
@luda
The menace comes from homegrown and state terrorists IN THE U.S., not the yellow peril, ruskies, or muslims. The menace comes from — in terms you understand — christo-fascist terrorists.
His inspiration was neoliberal economics,where the search for profit and idiotic wars have unleashed a Tsunami of refugees of legal and illegal immigrants into America and Europe.He picked on fellow victims instead of the perps who caused all of this.He was and is an idiot.
Racial Capitalism.
Somewhere tonight (I wish I could name the commenter) was a suggestion: if a dealer sells a gun which is used in a crime, the dealer is also prosecuted for the murder, etc. I think this could really work.
I believe that in this case, the dealer probably did not do the correct background checks, which would have uncovered Roof’s ineligibility because of his ongoing prosecutions and drug use. Or the dealer uncovered the problems but chose to ignore them. Either way, the dealer was not diligent and didn’t actually follow the existing law. In general, dealers have discretion and can refuse to sell a gun if they have any question about the purchaser. Jared Loughner was denied a gun by at least one store, and I wonder about James (?) Holmes. Adam Lanza’s mother bought guns for him, which I think is legally questionable. In all these cases, if a dealer thought s/he might be prosecuted for crimes using the gun, it might have made a difference.
Would this stop all gun crimes? I don’t think so, but it would probably prevent many. And it really doesn’t involve changing any existing laws, but strictly enforcing and supporting the laws we already have.
All MSM media are right wing,interventionist corporate fascists.They are only liberal on wars,abortion and LGBT,the latter 2 as divide and conquer.
Interesting.
This at the core is not about a girl or a gun this is not about hatred in this case racial. A man with a deranged mind allowed his hatred to consume his soul and spawn a demon among us. The people of the book he killed had reached out to him in love and kindness before he took their lives. They would have shepherded him away from violence if his heart had not been so harden to his evil mission. I am not cut from the fine cloth of these innocent victims. Should I every encounter such a evil man doing such violence to innocents I hope I am armed and quick to stop him.
Fair enough.
Juan thanks for getting back. A “Fair Enough” is a check mark that tells me at lease I am considering a problem with the hope of plotting some solution or even solace. We need more reporters like you that provoke us to think.
The heart breaker for me is if there were more people like those murdered we would have fewer murders. The core common denominator for such acts is mental illness and loathing. This time pointed at race often aimed at humanity. The antidote of kindness and caring was displayed by the departed.
Yes,his victims were good and honorable people.I guess he didn’t have the balls to take on armed blacks and other minorities in inner city hellholes of our own making.The world must laugh at US,for our total hypocrisy in world affairs,when our own nation is falling apart.
I guess this qualifies as a Hate Crime. Normally, I don’t like the idea of Hate Crimes, but if the facts bear out, this one definitely qualifies. Still, after nine separate death penalties or nine consecutive life sentences, how much more can be added for the actual “Hate” involved?
Racism isn’t my particular bugaboo. If he had murdered nine anybodies, it would still be a dastardly crime. But, people will make a great deal about the racial aspect. All the pundits and presidential candidates will be able to to wax self-righteously superior for a while and give us all stern lectures on the evils of racism.
I expect church attendance will actually go up in following weeks.
I guess these are fair points. But racism continues to permeate our society. No matter what you may want to call it.
You understate the problem. Your country is literally infested with racist terrorists who have butchered millions around the world, not only in Jim Crow S. Carolina, MO, TX, NY, OH, CA, FL, etc…
You can’t solve a problem if you don’t know what it is. Please clue yourselves up and see the problem for what it is, or you will never address it. The perps live, study, and work close to you and they call themselves patriots. Identify them. Sever relations. Make them pay, but do no violence. They deserve social death, not us — the dissidents your idolized American terrorists have harassed and attacked since 2001. We are the ones who got it right, not you and your beloved patriot-terrorists.
But if you want to continue accommodating, fearing, coddling, and sympathizing with the monsters next to you, it’s your business; others will make no distinction between they and you, and that’s how you’ll be remembered.
Americans need to reform themselves. Congress won’t do shit until reformed Americans overhaul it.
Good points Stan.
It qualifies as a hate crime and terrorism.
Here’s what we’ve heard so far: the act was premeditated, he let people live to tell about it, he believes in white supremacy, he asserted that he was there “to kill black people”.
The act of choosing that particular church on that particular day (a famous african american church which serves as a symbol of liberation for all african americans) seals the deal.
I’d like to suggest this Roof’s claimed sexual frustration was and is a blatant lie of an excuse for his well-planned act of pure racist terrorism. The particular target chosen, the too coincidental historical dates now coming to light and an obvious confidence in appearance and purpose are all tells his back-story is likely fabricated for an insanity defense. I hope plenty of media focuses it’s attention on the “cousin” providing that weak-ass back-story to the press because there are people that enabled Roof’s hate, not of a black man stealing his girlfriend years ago, but of the black peoples historical fight for freedom in South Carolina.
Of course. This man is an awful, horrible piece of shit. But the idea of black males ravaging white women has played a consistent role in white, male supremacy.
I was going to suggest a more frightnening idea was their white women secretly desire “ravaging” by black males, but realized you specifically chose that word for that reason. Well, as Mr. Juan often says, good point.
Ha.
Okay, I guess the only definition of ravage is something really violent and destructive, and not a word to just be blithely substituted for a knock-shit-over bout of inexhaustibly ravenous sex. Apologies if I miconstrued your meaning. I obviously wasn’t talking about violent rape but suggesting a great sexual inadequacy fear I suspect supremacists have – that their white women may actually want the chocolate man as a lover – and mate. But I think you got that…
every race has supremacy crap though. See raza or black panthers fyi.
Its not an idea.
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/02/montgomery-county-jury-deliberates-fate-of-alleged-beer-pong-rapist–111188.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/wichita-massacre-death-sentence_n_5621405.html
http://fox59.com/2015/03/09/woman-shot-sexually-assaulted-in-2013-home-invasion-talks-about-horrific-experience-jury-deliberates/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220695/Is-political-correctness-blame-lack-coverage-horrific-black-white-killings-Americas-Deep-South-Tennessee-Channon-Christian-Christopher-Newsom-carjack.html?
I hope plenty of media focuses it’s attention on the “cousin” providing that weak-ass back-story to the press
It isn’t just the cousin though. Roof’s own words supply proof that this was something other than an excuse:
Revealing that this was a reason – not necessarily the “only” reason – for Roof seeking out those who validated his hatred doesn’t necessarily provide proof for an insanity defense, or any kind of defense at all, except for those who share his racism.
`p-ska..
How does Juan’s alleged phone call, where he quotes his alleged cousin, validate this alleged reason?
[snip]
Roof’s mother, Amy, declined to comment when reached by phone.
“We will be doing no interviews, ever,” she said before hanging up..
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/18/us-usa-shooting-south-carolina-idUSKBN0OY06A20150618
What are you talking about?
I’m talking about shoddy journalism w/ respect to a hypothetical premise, that is the basis for this article.
1. The phone call in question has yet to be substantiated, so it is alleged.
2. The ‘cousin’ in question has yet to be substantiated, so he is also, alleged.
3. The cousin’s “quotes” have yet to be substantiated, so they are also….
In layman’s terms, this article is based on hearsay (unsupportive evidence), which in turn, amounts to shoddy journalism.
Sorry suave, I’m not sure what you’re asking me either. In my opinion the statement of the cousin is secondary to that of Roof himself. The difference between the cousin and the woman left alive in order to convey what happened and why might – or might not – be that the former, as a relative, might be expected to have some sympathy for Roof. Or not. Hard to know and shouldn’t necessarily be assumed.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear in my first comment though. I have been reading stories that seem to suggest this as a mitigating – however inexcusable – factor. I don’t think it is, but I also don’t think it should be ignored since he referenced it himself prior to shooting. It’s warped shit, but it’s warped shit he claimed as his own based on a witness account.
But just so we don’t forget how warped, Pedinska, he specifically targeted and killed a pastor and mostly women civil rights leaders. That’s hardly the crowd to blame for imaginary rapes of white women, unless your motive is truly just racism and a desire for ethnic cleansing – instead of a revenge for some years ago cock-block. I’m not suggesting he isn’t whack, but I suspect he was also greatly manipulated by others.
Apologies `p-ska.. I attributed your “Revealing that this was a reason” opinion to cousin Scott’s “alleged” sentiments. I’ve taken issue w/ the conjecture that is being offered as validation for Dylann’s purported scorning..
(:^)-{-</: -skatedude
A Strawberry Fields Forever Production
When our culture creates easy targets, they are going to be targeted. How easy was it for Roof to make this black man-white woman thing a spark for all of his frustrations.
C’est vrai.
When our culture creates easy targets, they are going to be targeted.
I saw this firsthand this week when I went to leave my house and found a flyer from an anti-abortion group on my front porch. The flyer, produced by the group KillersAmongUs.org, had a picture of a doctor, gives his home address, states that he provides abortions up to 17 weeks (well within the legal limits in Ohio) and has a graphic picture which it claims is of a 15 week aborted fetus (I have no idea if that is a true representation or not). The flyer has the phrase “Killers among us” featured prominently six times on the front and back. Then, in very small letters in the lower right corner you find (if you look very carefully) the disclaimer, “Created Equal condemns all abortion-related violence”.
What exactly is the purpose of revealing the home addresses of these physicians if not to promote violence toward them individually? If all you are promoting is the right to peacefully protest, then revealing the locations of clinics should be sufficient. Then, when someone is killed, or his/her family is subjected to violence and fear, they have the nerve to point to their tiny words and claim that this absolves them of all responsibility for the actions they so clearly endorse everywhere else. This is exactly the dynamic that you see in the published comments at places like Stormfront disavowing this particular act of violence. These people should be ashamed of their blatant lies.
But Pedinska, they believe in Jeeeeeeeeeeesus! It follows that anything they choose to do is righteous. You know, like the Duggars. The beauty of tribalism.
I am amusing myself by imagining you chasing these bastards down the street, waving a garden vegetable at them with all possible rage! And I’d be right behind you.
It’s similar to the so-called free speech argument that allows anti-choice people to get right up in the faces of women who go to clinics. Free speech rights have nothing to do with allowing aggression and implicit or explicit threats of violence against a targeted group. These mofos are not simply “sharing information” with the women at the clinics. Oh, my rage is coming on….
Very good.
Fuck the vegetables. Wouldn’t waste them on those assholes, but I might be inclined to arm myself with my pointy-tipped hoe. Once they get off my property it’s someone else’s problem. But they’re not welcome to leave that trash on my doorstep which they have to reach by polluting my front yard and veggie beds with their presence.
HA HA HA! Right on!
Abortion for convenience(as opposed to medical issues) is an uncivilized and regressive approach to unwanted pregnancy,and is highly redundant to the war of terror,where we murder others for our safety and convenience.
Interesting that music seemed to play a role.
Here is a question: how do culture and tradition connect to music? Was he influenced more by right wing radio or music?
Some have said that Gangsta Rap has had a negative effect on the black community.
Hey, a Fox News fan. ‘Some say…’ Is Bill O’Reilly’s favourite phrase.
Nete, I am asking a serious intellectual question. For example, when the Soviet Union took over countries, they attacked the culture including the music. When the country tries to regain its heritage, this effort includes bringing back their language (from Russian) and their music.
I am asking if anyone has a correlation between certain kinds of music, their followers, and how it relates to violence.
I am also asking this because in the social sciences the concept of “tradition” is side lines. Here in the US we have a tradition of guns and a tradition of putting down the blacks. Both of these came into play in this event of murder.
It doesn’t look like there’s any evidence that music influences people’s political worldviews. In any case, Bill O’Reilly has blamed rap music for violence in the past. I don’t expect he’ll rant about white power music any time soon, though.
Of course he won’t. That would require, mature intellectual consistency.
Really? You don’t believe in “We Shall Overcome” or “Give Peace a Chance” or for that matter in “Blowin in the Wind” or “There But for Fortune”? What a sad empty life you present.
Astute observation Don Midwest
I think in the immediate case there is confusion between “the music” and the message of the words. Yes, banning a language and banning a culture’s music are weapons of the conquerer, and reclaiming language and music are steps toward reclaiming a heritage that has been suppressed by a conquerer. But I am not aware of any music (as distinct from words) that innately carries a message such as “whites should kill blacks” or “men should beat up women”. It’s the words, not the music.
There are some genres of hard, white supremacist rock music that says just those things.
I think tortoiseshell means the melody, without the lyrics, does not by itself convey the message.
The SU?Really,I think that there are many more nations today that have taken over other nations lately,and they murder at will,forget cultural assassination.The Russians win with votes.
Sorry Nete. I’ve met Don and he is the farthest thing from the typical Fox consumer that you could get.
WRT this, though, Don:
I would posit that it was just one person’s attempt to try to explain what happened. And that this sort of inevitable parsing – something that happens when people grapple with the whys of horrible tragedies – fails a bit because it’s really difficult in a sort of chicken/egg way to tease out and/or prioritize influences that may feed off of each other.
Stated another way, while gangsta rap isn’t my thing, I know a lot of otherwise well-balanced young adults who do find it entertaining while not becoming proponents of the activities it glorifies. Same thing with the gamers. There is no doubt that it can contribute to some actions, but I don’t think it can be labeled a surefire cause under all circumstances.
Young male violence fuelled by sexual frustration is not limited to Islamists.
C’est vrai.
Amy Goodman on Democracy Now, yesterday had a terrific interview. I believe it is archived @ Democracy Now, well worth a listen.
Rev. Pinckney’s legislative record, in brief. He had spent considerable effort on public safety matters, including gun control.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/18/3671106/slain-charleston-pastor-fought-police-accountability-gun-control/
Of course they were pushing for that.
My understanding is that the recent law, which passed despite the Reverend’s opposition, prohibits guns in houses of worship unless the leaders of a church decide to permit them. It is up to the discretion of the religious leader, with the default being exclusion.
Here’s an article, with pictures, about the victims of this horrendous violence. May they rest in peace.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/18/charleston-church-victims-profiles
Hear, hear.
Your investigation has greatly enriched what we know so far Mr. Thompson, I would continue to pursue this lead, it seems that most, if not all, disaffected young heterosexual male mass killers had some significant romantic disappointed that aggravated a latent susceptibility for psychosis–perhaps this is one of the reasons why traditional religions place so much importance on monogamy and female fidelity: its therapeutic, stabilizing effect on the male psyche, etc…Also, it seems evident based on some of Dylann Roof’s other comments that a monotonic and tunnel-like narrative of murderous vengeance (grafted or told by a subconscious dimension of himself to himself to the near or total exclusion of all other and potentially countervailing/antidotal narratives) had taken complete and torturous hold of his psyche, subjecting him to blinding, dementing pain and a seemingly permanent murderous rage that just as well have manifested itself and interfamilial violence, the potentiality of which the murderer fearfully intuited and despairing of its inevitability felt himself only strong enough to deviate and redirect into violence against those who would be most outside his familial network and ties: i.e. members of the local African American population (with the subconscious discourse of vengeance serving as self-convincing pretextuality for the gratuitous, heinous, and ultimately self-dehumanizing and bestial slaughter of innocent others).
This should read: “…that [may] just as well have manifested itself [as] interfamilial violence…”
That’s a lot of words, there, Romerous. It does often seem as though some men tend toward the homicidal after romantic problems…
Still, I have no words for someone who would go to a CHURCH ( or ANY house of worship and murder people. It was awful in older times, awful during the civil rights movement and is still horrible . How can someone kill those who only want to worship and connect spiritually? Something is just so wrong inside of such a perpetrator and it’s both sad and scary.
Excellent points Feline.
Error, so would you have felt better if he’d shot folks at a grocery store?
Error, so would you have felt better if he’d shot folks at a grocery store?
Of course not. Why would you make such an assumption? I will point out the tweeter, an African-American male, who also noted that Roof didn’t try to go into the “hood as opposed to a church where he knew people would be unarmed and peaceful.” (Wish I could find it again to link to)
Was there something wrong with that guy’s comment as well? He was commenting on what he perceived of as cowardice. I suppose a case could also be made for Roof thinking a church might permit him opportunity to commit maximal harm. Or, the church may very well have been chosen because of its historical importance. All of those are valid considerations/theories. None of them are justifications in any way. IMHO.
Exactly.
Found it:
https://twitter.com/jasiri_x/status/611583042759622656
I made the same comment,wo looking at his,and yes it was extreme cowardice by the little sh*t.Same with the black guy taking away his girlfriend,that thought came to me also.
@Nate Peedham –
What a horrible comment. Of course murder ANYWHERE is horrible, no question about that. But how can you fail to see the absolute horror – or maybe evil – of doing such violence in a HOUSE of WORSHIP. Placesof worship are supposed to be HOLY and to bring such evil there is truly despicable. Churches and other houses of worship at one time (and maybe still now) were supposed to signal a place of SANCUARY. That he violated this place IS especially terrible.
Thanks @Pedinska and Juan for chiming in here. That tweet is quite interesting…
I find it so tragic that he really felt it was his “duty” and seemingly had to resign himself to murder them, even though they were “nice” to him. The fact of his internal struggle is especially pathetic.
Yeah,will SC rebels dedicate a Charleston square to Roof,ala Goldstein in Israel?Nice company,huh?Americas own sanctuary violator.
Some historical details, maybe germane, maybe coincidental:
1. Denmark Vesey co-founded the church in 1816; he was hanged in 1822 for allegedly plotting a slave uprising.
2. The projected date of the rising would have been June 17, 1822 — Wednesday was an anniversary.
3. A statue of Vesey went up in Charleston last year.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/terrorist-targeted-historic-sc-church-on-193rd-anniversary-of-thwarted-slave-revolt-planned-by-its-founder/
For whatever it’s worth.
Coram you really get the info to us.
I’d heard about Denmark Vasey and the church in articles, but somehow missed the date as June 17. Scary…
So did I, this is why I love our readers here in the comment section. They’re constantly teaching us.