A British psychologist is receiving sharp criticism from some professional peers for providing expert advice to help the U.K. surveillance agency GCHQ manipulate people online.
The debate brings into focus the question of how or whether psychologists should offer their expertise to spy agencies engaged in deception and propaganda.
Dr. Mandeep K. Dhami, in a 2011 paper, provided the controversial GCHQ spy unit JTRIG with advice, research pointers, training recommendations, and thoughts on psychological issues, with the goal of improving the unit’s performance and effectiveness. JTRIG’s operations have been referred to as “dirty tricks,” and Dhami’s paper notes that the unit’s own staff characterize their work using “terms such as ‘discredit,’ promote ‘distrust,’ ‘dissuade,’ ‘deceive,’ ‘disrupt,’ ‘delay,’ ‘deny,’ ‘denigrate/degrade,’ and ‘deter.’” The unit’s targets go beyond terrorists and foreign militaries and include groups considered “domestic extremist[s],” criminals, online “hacktivists,” and even “entire countries.”
After publishing Dhami’s paper for the first time in June, The Intercept reached out to several of her fellow psychologists, including some whose work was referenced in the paper, about the document’s ethical implications.
One of the psychologists cited in the report criticized the paper and GCHQ’s ethics. Another psychologist condemned Dhami’s recommendations as “grossly unethical” and another called them an “egregious violation” of psychological ethics. But two other psychologists cited in the report did not express concern when contacted for reaction, and another psychologist, along with Dhami’s current employer, defended her work and her ethical standards.
A British law firm hired to represent Dhami maintained that any allegations of unethical conduct are “grossly defamatory and totally untrue.”
The divergent views on the paper highlight how the profession of psychology has yet to resolve key ethical concerns around consulting for government intelligence agencies. These issues take on added resonance in the context of the uproar currently roiling the American Psychological Association over the key role it played in the CIA torture program during the Bush administration. The APA’s Council of Representatives voted Friday to bar psychologists from taking part in national security interrogations or to advise on confinement conditions. Dhami’s consultation with JTRIG and the APA’s role in support of the CIA torture program are disparate — there is no suggestion that Dhami advised on interrogations involving torture nor that her paper was part of an ongoing relationship with JTRIG — but Dhami’s GCHQ work, like the APA scandal, provokes heated disagreement and criticism.
Some peers are outspoken against Dhami’s paper. They do not believe it is possible to engage ethically with the deceitful activities of a unit like JTRIG at any level. Arguments in defense of assisting psychological operations, meanwhile, include the notion that doing so helps ensure they are conducted in a responsible fashion and can help obviate the need for operations that are violent.
Dr. Stephen Soldz, Director of Center for Research Evaluation and Program Development at Boston Graduate School of Psychoanalysis
Photo: Alamy
Soldz condemned the “deeply disturbing and grossly unethical recommendations” in Dhami’s JTRIG report. He added that “the psychology profession and the public must grapple with developing proper ethical constraints on the activities of operational psychologists.”
For Dr. Bradley Olson, who is past president of APA Division 48, which studies peace, conflict, and violence, using one’s training to assist in a mission like JTRIG’s, which involves the deception and manipulation of unsuspecting targets, is inherently problematic. Using one’s “expertise, research, or consultation to guide deceptive statements, even the statements of others, when the deceptive intentions are clearly documented … that is against psychological ethics,” according to Olson, who has collaborated with Soldz, including as a co-founder of the Coalition for an Ethical Psychology. “This is a terrible, terrible violation of psychological ethics” and a violation of the APA’s ethical standards, he added.
Dhami is not currently a member of the APA, but was a member of an APA Division at the time the report was written. According to APA bylaws, “Divisions must comply with all APA Bylaws, Association Rules and current policies.” Her online profile at Middlesex University, where Dhami is a professor, currently lists her as a member of APA Division 41 and a fellow of Division 9. A representative of APA Division 9, the Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues, said that Dhami stopped paying dues in 2013 and is therefore no longer a member. The APA and an officer of Division 41, the American Psychology-Law Society, acknowledged receiving but did not respond to questions from The Intercept.
Dr. Christian Crandall, a professor in the University of Kansas’ social psychology program, disagrees with Dhami’s critics. “In my perusal, it seemed that she was writing a brief that would lead to research opportunities, consulting opportunities, and the like,” he said. “Because this brief was commissioned and written prior to the Snowden revelations … we might give Prof. Dhami the benefit of the doubt, that she might not [have] know[n] or anticipate[d] the extent of misconduct in the intelligence agencies.”
Crandall is also a council member at SPSSI, the APA division that honored Dhami as a fellow in 2007, and, emailing in that capacity, said he sees nothing unethical about Dhami’s report for JTRIG. After a “fairly quick look at the document,” he said the report did not merit an investigation. “What should SPSSI do? Nothing. Nothing at all, until evidence of actual unethical conduct appears. And we have not seen it.”
“It is certainly possible that JTRIG acts badly, spies on domestic (or American) targets, or even breaks international law. It is a stretch to hold Prof. Dhami responsible for this,” Crandall wrote. “[The report is] quite a bit like what the U.S. Army teaches their strategic communication officers. It’s less offensive than the behaviors of Karl Rove. It’s not benign. But Dhami specifies two relevant ethical codes … and two relevant UK laws … and recommends that JTRIG follow the relevant laws.”
“I do not think that JTRIG requires a set of ethical guidelines that is different from those that are relevant to the rest of humanity.”
Dhami was contacted for this article and responded to questions from The Intercept through Schillings, a British law firm, and Culhane Meadows, a U.S. firm. A letter from Schillings said that Dhami had “upheld the highest ethical standards” throughout her academic career and had never sought to hide her association with GCHQ. “The work undertaken by our client has been focused on helping GCHQ to accurately understand and responsibly apply psychological science,” the letter stated. “In working with the government our client typically provides advice on how to improve specific aspects of their work” and is “not therefore actively engaged in the day-to-day business of these departments, but rather an independent observer/commentator” with a “strong track record of publishing critiques of existing Government policies.”
Schillings also said Dhami was “legally restricted in terms of the responses that she is able to give” to The Intercept’s questions “by virtue of the government agency involved,” adding that no “adverse inferences” should be drawn from this. Asked about Dhami’s report, GCHQ said in a statement that the agency is “aware of the responsibility that comes with the nature of its work and in addition to the legal accountability we also take the ethical considerations surrounding our mission seriously.”
Middlesex University defended Dhami’s work, writing: “Middlesex University has robust ethical procedures and is committed to operating in an ethical way to ensure the highest possible standards of decision-making and accountability. Professor Dhami’s work for Middlesex University is carried out in strict accordance with the ethical codes of the organisation, which in turn conform to the standards laid down by the British Psychological Society.”
Dhami appears to have been a senior lecturer in criminology at Cambridge University when she wrote the report, as well as a social psychologist with the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, an agency sponsored by the U.K. Ministry of Defence. During this period, she was temporarily transferred, or “seconded” to GCHQ, according to a version of Dhami’s CV posted online.
The top-secret document, titled “Behavioural Science Support for JTRIG’s (Joint Threat Research and Intelligence Group’s) Effects and Online HUMINT Operations,” appears to have been written during this stint at the spy agency. (The term “HUMINT” commonly refers to human intelligence.) It was based on interviews with 22 JTRIG staffers and seven support staff from GCHQ. In it, Dhami provides advice on how JTRIG can improve its approach and attain desired outcomes, for example, by applying theories and research around persuasive communication, compliance, obedience, conformity, and the creation of trust and distrust.
“Compliance can be achieved through various techniques,” reads the “obedience” section of Dhami’s report, “including: Engaging the norm of reciprocity; engendering liking (e.g., via ingratiation or attractiveness); stressing the importance of social validation (e.g., via highlighting that others have also complied); instilling a sense of scarcity or secrecy; getting the ‘foot-in-the-door’ (i.e., getting compliance to a small request/issue first); and applying the ‘door-in-the-face’ or ‘low-ball’ tactics (i.e., asking for compliance on a large request/issue first and having hidden aspects to a request/issue that someone has already complied with, respectively).”
In other cases, Dhami presents a menu of possible effective approaches grounded in specific psychological research that is formally cited throughout the body of the paper, in a “recommended reading list,” and in a “list of training requirements for JTRIG staff.”
“Propaganda techniques include,” Dhami writes, “Using stereotypes; substituting names/labels for neutral ones; censorship or systematic selection of information; repetition; assertions without arguments; and presenting a message for and against a subject.”
Dhami’s 42-page report came nearly three years before the world became aware of JTRIG and of its methods of deception, dissemination of online propaganda, and acquisition of human intelligence. The unit’s existence was first revealed through leaked documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden and published by NBC News and The Intercept. JTRIG’s tactics include seeding propaganda on social media, impersonating people online, and creating false blog posts to discredit targets.
Dhami recommends that staff be trained on the various specific techniques she outlines, that a social influence research program be developed, that the possibility of compiling psychological profiles for exploitation in intelligence operations be explored, that a catalog of online crime prevention techniques be developed, that processes for assessment of risk and effectiveness be established, and that JTRIG develop guidelines for operational best practices.
Some of the psychology research texts Dhami recommends are marked with an asterisk indicating “JTRIG has now acquired this material.” The Intercept attempted to contact the authors of materials that had been “acquired” by JTRIG.
One of those authors, Peter Smith, emeritus professor of psychology at University of Sussex near Brighton, England, raised questions about Dhami’s paper.
“Some of the reported actions of JTRIG are clearly contrary to the ethical guidelines of the British Psychological Society,” Smith wrote in an email. “The descriptions that [s]he provides of the social psychology of influence are broadly accurate, but the use of this knowledge to deceive people or distort the information that they receive is not advocated in any of the sources that [s]he cites.” He added: “I am certainly not comfortable with the ways in which Dr. Dhami has used [her] knowledge of social psychology.”
Dhami’s profile at Middlesex University does not list the British Psychological Society among her current professional affiliations.
Other psychologists cited by Dhami did not criticize her paper but rather disclaimed any control over her use of their material. Susan Fiske, a Princeton psychologist and fellow of six APA divisions, also had her work acquired by JTRIG. She told The Intercept by email, “Anyone can buy my book. When you write a textbook, it’s in the public domain, and anyone can use it. I have no control over what happens after it is published.”
Joseph Forgas, a psychology professor at the University of New South Wales in Australia, had his work on the list as well. He responded: “This is published research that is in the public sphere and is openly available to anyone. So, I have no further control over its use, and I see [no] problem at all with anyone using it. If there are indeed any ethical issues here, it is the responsibility of democratic governments to supervise such activity. I am not aware of any abuse, and on the whole, I don’t see any real issues here.”
Eleven other psychologists whose work was cited by Dhami did not respond to emails from The Intercept.
Dhami does directly address ethical concerns in part of her report. But her treatment of ethics is brief. JTRIG, she writes, operates under “no specific guidelines on ethical practice.” She notes that professional codes of conduct exist, such as those of the British Society of Criminology and the British Psychological Society, but determines that “clearly, not all of the aspects of the above codes will be relevant or applicable to JTRIG’s operations” and the codes “do not identify best practice in all of the types of online interactions that JTRIG staff might be involved in.” “Thus,” she concludes, “JTRIG may need to develop a bespoke code” that complies with the U.K. legislation governing intelligence agencies.
Smith, the University of Sussex psychologist whose work was acquired by JTRIG, views the issue differently. “Dr. Dhami neither condemns nor directly endorses the reported actions of JTRIG, but suggests that their actions may need to be guided by a ‘different’ ethical code,” he wrote. “I do not think that JTRIG requires a set of ethical guidelines that is different from those that are relevant to the rest of humanity.”
The very idea of a “bespoke code” that “complies” with the law but merely considers established ethics codes “that may be pertinent,” without being bound by them, is controversial, but not novel. It’s far from clear that there is an ethically correct way to engage in acts to discredit, deceive, denigrate, and degrade unsuspecting targets, and it’s decidedly possible that developing guidelines that purport to do so will only lend legitimacy to unsavory behavior.
A change to the APA’s Ethics Code, adopted in August 2002, allowed psychologists, for the first time, to “adhere to the requirements of the law, regulations, or other governing legal authority” in cases where those regulations could not be squared with ethical standards.
That same month, the Bush Justice Department issued one of the key, then-secret “torture memos,” which suggested that interrogators could avoid prosecution for torture if they believed in “good faith” their actions would not result in “prolonged mental harm”; demonstration of such “good faith” included “consulting with experts.”
Three years later, after images of the Abu Ghraib torture scandal had shocked the world, the APA Presidential Task Force on Psychological Ethics and National Security affirmed the organization’s support for psychologists’ participation in government interrogations. “The Task Force believes that a central role for psychologists working in the area of national security-related investigations is to assist in ensuring that processes are safe, legal, and ethical for all participants,” it stipulated.
This institutional posture gave psychologists the ethical cover to participate in interrogations, which in turn provided interrogators with the legal cover, in accordance with the DoJ memos, to engage in “enhanced interrogation tactics.”
In 2010, the APA removed the clause added to the Ethics Code in 2002, which could open the door to the so-called “Nuremberg Defense.” The 2005 PENS report was retracted in 2013.
Social scientists and medical professionals have long struggled with the moral and ethical dilemmas inherent in operational work on behalf of militaries and intelligence agencies. Proponents of such work posit that so-called psychological operations can limit conflict and save lives — particularly when used tactically, for limited applications within a battlefield, as opposed to strategically around the world.
Critics maintain that because the potential for abuse is inherent, scholars have an obligation to combat, rather than enable, psychological operations.
Dr. Sara B. King, chair of the psychology department at Saint Francis University in Pennsylvania, summarizes the argument in her study of military social influence. Some propaganda critics, she writes, “have argued that ‘propaganda for democracy’ is simply a contradiction in terms, because pervasive propaganda inevitably shapes totalitarian, rather than democratic, psychological process.” In describing strategic psychological operations “planned and executed at the national level,” King explains: “These broad-based military perception management initiatives, argue some, have the potential to endanger both science and democracy.”
According to King, this debate was most fervent in the period between the two world wars, was largely quashed during the anti-Communist McCarthy era, and became a relative whisper in the post-9/11 era, when the APA changed its ethical posture to enable psychologists to participate in interrogations.
In a published response to King, Dhami argued in March 2011, the same month the JTRIG report was issued, that military use of psychology is inevitable, and therefore civilian psychologists have a responsibility to monitor its application in order to prevent misuse.
“The integrity of our psychological science is threatened by the great potential for its misinterpretation and misapplication in military social influence campaigns,” Dhami wrote. “The harm that may be caused by remaining detached from such campaigns, perhaps because of the element of deception and invasion of privacy involved, may far outweigh the benefits of striving for the welfare and rights of the campaign targets.”
Even in the wake of today’s APA vote, the debate over Dhami’s paper shows the profession of psychology is still grappling with questions over the ethical limits of involvement in government intelligence programs.
“Psychologists should use their unique insights into human behavior to promote human welfare and dignity, not undermine or harm individuals,” Sarah Dougherty, a lawyer and senior fellow of the U.S. Anti-Torture Program at Physicians for Human Rights, told The Intercept. “The JTRIG allegations merit further investigation.”
A Stasi-like apparatus has been constructed and is currently operational from coast to coast in the U.S. And the best way to do it was to “target” those who are unremarkable (to use Mona’s descriptor). It’s that simple.
It’s not about you (name? — see comment and similar response down-thread) — and it’s not about any of the others who are being used. It’s about the development of tactics, methods, and infrastructure necessary to subject anyone at all to 24/7 surveillance in the U.S. — anywhere, any time, any place — and, if necessary, make a person’s life extremely difficult. And it’s been done.
(Unfortunately — even tragically — there’s that not-so-little thing called blowback. And we’ve seen a lot of it. Still the benefits outweigh the costs, it would seem, according to those who are running this “national security” show. Collateral damage was and is to be expected. It’s worth the price, apparently.)
So the apparatus is in place and anyone who tries to call attention to it is quickly marginalized. It’s easy to discredit those who are making “crazy” claims. Surround the topic with disinformation. And use the mentally ill — and mental illness — to make it all work.
Who would ever believe it? Or report on it, in a serious way. No one. There’s little investigative reporting anymore. Journalists rely on leaked documents or whistleblowers — who are few and far between . And, given where we are, who knows how long it will take to expose our homegrown Stasi. But make no mistake. We’ve got one. And we have a lot of “good Americans” who are only too happy to help.
Take a look at Mitchell and Jessen, if you want to understand the types of psychologists who are all too willing to play along with the state:
http://www.latimes.com/world/afghanistan-pakistan/la-fg-torture-psychologists-20141214-story.html
And it takes a very long time for some of this very dirty business to come to light. Which is a crying shame for the victims — however “unremarkable” they might be in the eyes of some.
Vindication for Valtin (aka psychologist Jeffrey Kaye):
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/10/1401281/-Vindication-for-Valtin-on-the-APA-Torture-An-Appreciation#
Jeffrey Kaye, back in 2006:
“Civil War in Psychology over Abetting U.S. Torture”
Jun 07, 2006 9:09pm PDT by Valtin
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2006/06/08/216869/-Civil-War-in-Psychology-over-Abetting-U-S-Torture
” This August, the liberal APA (they’re campaigning, for instance, against the Hate Amendment) is holding its convention in New Orleans. A discussion, “Inside the Interrogation Room” is planned. So is an invited symposium on “Ethical Dilemmas for Psychologists Dealing With War, Terrorism, Torture, and Coercion”. Two other similar symposiums by other divisions within APA are planned.
It remains to be seen how much the often staid crowd at APA conventions will push for any political action. Psychologists have been implicated in the use of coercion and illegal interrogation and psychological black ops since the early days of the Cold War. I wrote a diary, Shocking Documents on U.S. Torture Tactics — 1992 Cheney connection, that documents some of this history, particularly the use of psychology to orient the practice of torture by CIA personnel, as described in the famous KUBARK protocol.
It will be a terrible blot upon the profession of psychology if psychologists cannot, like their colleagues in the psychiatric establishment, stand up and demand their professional organizations ban and punish those members who work with the practice and organization of torture, as the latter is defined by most human rights organizations, and is clinically defined in the Istanbul Protocol and elsewhere.
I hope that any psychologists or their patients reading this contact the APA with their protest regarding their policy. “
Let me show you all how easily this gets corrupted. I was one of the targets in the U.S., when the American Psychological Association got in bed with the Bush Administration on national security cases. I was the Chief CIA Asset covering the Iraqi Embassy in New York for 8 years. I am also a vocal opponent of war and torture policy— and my team gave advance warning about 9/11. After the Justice Dept arrested me on the Patriot Act, and falsely accused me of acting as an “Iraqi Agent”– not espionage– corrupt psychiatrists declared me “incompetent to stand trial,” on the grounds that I “was so overwhelmingly convinced of my innocence that I could not appreciate the gravity of the charges.” I was thrown in prison on Carswell Air Force Base without so much as a hearing, and locked up for a year, while psychiatrists argued that I should be forcibly drugged w/Haldol, Ativan and Prozac (though they admitted in Court I suffer no depression or mood disturbances) , so that I could be forced to stop saying I had worked as an Intelligence Asset. Psychiatrists destroyed my reputation to protect Bush policies. As a result, the global public is ignorant of critical knowledge, and Americans might actually put Jeb Bush in the White House. That’s where this goes.
Thank you for sharing your story, Susan. I remember your appearance with Abby Martin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjTYmDKPaI
Yes. Cointelpro is in full swing. And there’s this, as well:
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/new-docs-raise-questions-about-cia-spying-here-home
“The CIA also turned over several years’ worth of annual reports to Congress about the agency’s activities under EO 12333. These reports begin by discussing “Intelligence Activities Conducted by CIA Within the United States.” This header is followed by dozens of entirely redacted pages — once again suggesting that the agency is engaged in a significant amount of intelligence activity here at home. ?”
You’re welcome, WUA. My comment was to have been a response to yours. Must have forgotten to hit th reply button.
Psychologists are clearly involved in what’s transpiring domestically, as well.
Stasi shrinks are indeed involved in domestic and overseas torture of US Persons, and their tactics are created by intellects as puerile as those who describe themselves as members of the so called Intelligence Community. The APA torture community and their street level perps have much in common.
Thanks for the link, Anonymous. (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jul/13/psychologist-torture-doctors-collusion-jean-maria-arrigo).
Two things that stand out for me in The Guardian article:
“…the APA’s institutional involvement with torture led to a concerted effort to quash dissent, lie to the public, and *silence people like her*.”
“I think the effect on me, which has intensified, may be more like what happened to people in East Germany when the Stasi records were opened,” she told the Guardian.
Does this not scream COINTELPRO?
Also:
“What was more troubling to her, she said, were the well-meaning members of APA who did not challenge the attacks.
“Not only did they do nothing, but they allowed themselves to be used,” she said.
You’re right; it does scream COINTELPRO. And when you consider the billions upon billions of dollars that are handed out every year to the DHS, FBI, and other agencies and private intelligence contractors that “fight terrorism” (despite a total lack of actual terrorists), it’s really not difficult to see that innocent, everyday people would be targeted by the government. There’s more than enough money and manpower for people who aren’t journalists, well-known activists, or other “somebodies” to get caught up in the mix.
Combine this with the fact that innocent people who were targeted by governments in the past were subject to despicable things like Zersetzung, and many of those “gang stalking” claims don’t look as far-fetched as they did at first glance. I’ll admit there’s some outrageous insanity out there surrounding labels like “gang stalking” and “targeted individual”—the type of insanity that no one would want to be associated with—but the crap that people like Pat B. spew all over the internet does not seem to reflect the more genuine-sounding claims, like what I’ve seen at the “Fight Gang Stalking” website.
Long time Zersetzung target talking to you.
I have frequently found myself compelled to disassociate myself from the crazy talk, as I have never experienced any harassment, threats, or Stasi theatre involving lazers, implants, aliens, mind control, DEW, or voices in my head. It has all been low tech. (I am mot impressed with the always under-the-table technical acheivements of the NSA’s pampered, public teat sucking thieves and terrorists.)
ButI am suspicious of FGS.com because the site’s author insisted US torturers never ‘touch’ targets. (He said this to me personally by email, when I was gullible.) This is not true. I have been threatened with a straight razor, poked inthe eye with scissors, and assualted in a medical lab — all with lowtech gadgets found in any barbershop or medical facility.
FGS.com describes many forms of stalking and harassment I have witnessed over the last dozen years, which is what drew me to the site, but the author’s insistence that US Person torturers do not touch their targets while giving some of the cray talk a pass gives me doubts. Of course I cannot be sure, but prefer to err on the cautious side. The Stasi has a big budget, rental-patriots to spare, and has developed many levels of disinfo given the many different levels of awareness among targets about how they are being attacked.
I could be wrong about FSG.com. I have not read the site in a long time, but if DEW talk still gets a pass when my experience with a razor wielding Stasi rodent is denied, then I have good reason to continue distrusting the author.
“Sarah Dougherty, a lawyer and senior fellow of the U.S. Anti-Torture Program at Physicians for Human Rights, told The Intercept. “The JTRIG allegations merit further investigation.”” -Andrew Fishman
They certainly do. Looking forward to the next installment.
A request to all TIs. I know how horrible you feel. I know you all feel going crazy getting EMF wave torture and if you are smart enough of buying EMF meter,you can measure how EMF from your laptop and phone is as high as 1000 when your laptop is away from you(you are measuring it on bed with laptop on corner of room with your feet on ground).I can provide evidence but who is gonna investigate? No one. I don’t want you all to go out and kill innocent people like they want you to do. We are all humans. I agree with fightgangstalking website to very big extent but they miss the points of Remote Nueral Monitering. For example, you meet a person A who acts weird(or carry a trigger like bottle of some brands or anything) ,you think its them you shoot him but you killed wrong guy. This is why so many shooting are happening.That person A had a thought put in his head to carry that trigger at that particular point. Similarly, you go to a new place, every one start talking about something which sounds similar to you and you assume its them. This is the issue, hardly very few people ever work with them.Its not like old days, they used technology on Iraqi Army where they heard voice of God, saw the spirits, they had thoughts of being scared and you all think “they still hire humans”. The problem is they only use a few just so you think its all of them.Even those third world countries military are discussing this mind control technology of USA, why? It proves the fact NSA has ability to hack human minds. Where did NSA learn it from? Do you know back in 1960’s NSA did massive research on Voodoo,psychic works and such? NSA even now has deep involvement in Puerto Rico(santeria religion) in such projects to study Human ability to use super natural powers.I met this one particular psychic at start of my torture whose first words to me “things(emf waves) are after you they come out from electricity things” I asked what things and he couldn’t explain(he hardly knew concept of wave) and said “i can’t explain in words but i told you the source”.I have evidence and i know what EMF is? NSA can’t trick me anymore.So please don’t kill people and read about mind control Remote Nueral Monitering technology. No i am not a NSA paid troll. All the best all TIs. May God keep us all safe and i hope Intercept will shed light on “Monarch mind control on US citizens children” and this EMF torture one day because ultimately they will expand this program to all. Its just a testing phase.People like Glen Greenwalk, they don’t torture them because then they will be exposed badly.All disinfo agents here they will never stop.They will call me names,crazy and what not.I am used to it.Most of people here know who i am and what happened to me so i don’t care what disinfo agents say. My harassment was increased for these comments which tells you all i speak truth and i trust in God.Thank you intercept for being brave by not censoring my comments. It proved me one thing you do want to help the truth.I pray for your success but i see that darkness is like a black hole now.
Lest we forget:
“For a decade, colleagues of the 71-year-old psychologist ignored, derided and in some cases attacked Arrigo for sounding alarms that the American Psychological Association was implicated in US torture.”
“A national hero': psychologist who warned of torture collusion gets her due”
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jul/13/psychologist-torture-doctors-collusion-jean-maria-arrigo
“Jean Maria Arrigo’s inbox is filling up with apologies.
“For a decade, colleagues of the 71-year-old psychologist ignored, derided and in some cases attacked Arrigo for sounding alarms that the American Psychological Association was implicated in US torture. But now that a devastating report has exposed deep APA complicity with brutal CIA and US military interrogations – and a smear campaign against Arrigo herself – her colleagues are expressing contrition.
US torture doctors could face charges after report alleges post-9/11 ‘collusion’
“I have been wanting to email you since reading the Hoffman report on Wednesday to let you know how ashamed I am about not believing what you and others had been saying about APA’s actions,” wrote a psychologist Arrigo wished to remain anonymous. ”
Many times — tragically, in some cases — this is the way it works.
To Jean Maria Arrigo.
“We honor you for your resolute commitment and tenacity in advocating for peace, human rights, and ethical behavior. We honor you for your unwavering courage in opposing torture, despite efforts to discredit, isolate, and shun you, in orchestrated movements by those in positions of power. We honor you for your steadfast reliance on logical, fact-based advocacy in the face of harsh, hostile personal criticism and attacks. We honor you for being the ethical, moral conscience of this Association for over the past ten years. We honor you for being the finest possible role model for us in the profession of Psychology.
With deep respect, heartfelt admiration, and sincere gratitude, from colleagues in the Council of Representatives
American Psychological Association
August 2015”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/psychologists-honor-anti-torture-whistleblower-government-now-its-your-move
I think what APA recently did was great:
a) just the fact that they started a grassroots movements of “Psychologists against torture” (something that should be obvious to anyone with a healthy sense of reality) against the military industrial complex, the CIA, FBI, NSA … sends a very strong message to them and to “we the people”
b) they were able to convene (why in Canada? ;-)) and they got only a few abstentions and only one “no” vote from, well, … expectedly some CIA @ssh0l3
c) since “interpretations” of what is torture or “enhanced interrogation techniques” were made secret by USG they aligned their “interpretations” to internationally sanctioned institutions. That was a great strategic move!
d) they have made clear that Psychologists messing with “interpretations” are risking their licenses and will be exposed (like that “Dr.” Dhami b!tch)!
Even if they will play stupid now and try to act like nothing happened, trying to stonewall the whole situation, I think that was a big step in the right direction.
As they said 12% of all Psycho graduates are hired by USG to do “operative psychology”. They get the highest salaries -from us-. Do they themselves need so much therapy?
What we need now is for the other APA (for Psychiatrist) to follow with a similar step.
Nothing good comes out of alliances among Psycho guys + lawyers + politicians.
Hoping that lawyers would do the same thing as APA is totally unrealistic, but if the other APA (for Psychiatrist) walks out of that business too, that would make things definitely more uncomfortable to that “alliance of the willing”
Yes, there is such a thing as consciousness and free will!
Satyagraha,
RCL
At best, Mona is way out of her league, here.
And as for some of the crazy comments?
1) We have a scroll bar for a reason.
2) Ignoring a behavior is the best way to extinguish it.
But Mona obviously can’t help herself. It amuses her, she says. She likes to think that she’s one of the smartest people in the room — probably because she usually is. Smart, yes. But, clearly, very naive.
In the milieu of Greenwald and his regular readers and commenters, I am average to middle in a cohort of exceptionally smart individuals.
But I am the opposite of naive. What I am is well read and educated on audience cults, and I know one when I see it. The “Targeted Individuals” movement has virtually all the hallmarks.
“But I am the opposite of naive.” -Mona
So you say. IMHO, you are clearly naive about certain things — it’s obvious in some of your comments.
“Well read and educated” is one thing, Mona — life experience is quite another. I would assume that you’ve had a good share of life experiences, but everyone has gaps. And each one of us has blind spots. Even you.
but everyone has gaps. And each one of us has blind spots. Even you.
No doubt I do — but not about audience cults. Not about the sociological phenomenon of hordes who believe extraordinary things in the absence of credible documentation.
‘“When you talked to people outside the movement about what the F.B.I. was doing, nobody wanted to believe it,” said one of the burglars, Keith Forsyth, who is finally going public about his involvement. “There was only one way to convince people that it was true, and that was to get it in their handwriting.”’
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/07/us/burglars-who-took-on-fbi-abandon-shadows.html
Cointelpro then and a newer iteration of Cointelpro now? MKUltra then and a newer iteration of MKUltra now? How about a blending of the two?
Do you really believe that all the secrets are out, Mona?
And when did we first have “credible documentation” about Cointelpro?
Only after it had been in full swing for 15 years. And only because of the theft of FBI documents in Media, PA and Carl Stern’s subsequent and persistent efforts via FOIA. By that time, it had been 17 years.
This same “TI” crap-flooding has been voluminously crap-flooding thread after thread since the inception of The Intercept. Ignoring has not helped. Banning and deleting has helped only temporarily, because those who are banned ( or more accurately, put into a Purgatory/moderation hole) and deleted have no respect or honor or consideration, which is proven by their constant reappearance, only to go on crap-flooding with the same vein as previous.
Stasi Jerk: Stop posting your crap here, end the attacks, out yourself, and go to prison.
This will quickly solve the so called crap flooding problem. Remove yourself. Problem solved.
Someone do this thread a favour and close comments.
I dont know who is sicker, those protesting their targeting or those who keep replying.
We are all targets under total surveillance and it matters little what the means are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AzEY6ZqkuE
“Everybody’s Talkin'”
(originally by Fred Neil)
Everybody’s talking at me
I don’t hear a word they’re saying
Only the echoes of my mind
People stopping, staring
I can’t see their faces
Only the shadows of their eyes
I’m going where the sun keeps shining
Through the pouring rain
Going where the weather suits my clothes
Banking off of the northeast winds
Sailing on a summer breeze
And skipping over the ocean like a stone
Wah, wah wah-wah wah
Wah-wah wah-wah, wah wah-wah
Wahhh
I’m going where the sun keeps shining
Through the pouring rain
Going where the weather suits my clothes
Banking off of the northeast winds
Sailing on a summer breeze
And skipping over the ocean like a stone
Everybody’s talking at me
Can’t hear a word they’re saying
Only the echoes of my mind
I won’t let you leave my love behind
No, I won’t let you leave
Wah, wah
I won’t let you leave my love behind
Stalked 4 years!
Thanks Intercept for a venue for sharing Truth about government sponsored stalking.
I’ve been blocked from 2 IP’s from posting, DHS? NSA?
Is it -mona- and her puppeteers, or is she the Intercept’s lap Dog?
No-Touch Torture
COINTELPRO / MK ULTRA continues by these scum!
While prosaic happenings must always be fraught with sinister and scary significance for you and your comrades, it is very simple: multiple of the authors here have banned your accounts (that you keep re-signing up for). This occurs because you and your friends crapflood the place with bullshit that is unwanted by several of the authors as well as multiple other readers and commenters.
One of these disgusted commenters wrote this below:
S/he made clear s/he did not mean me — s/he meant you “Targeted Individual” pests. That sentiment is widely shared.
No conspiracy. No government antics. An Internet web site (very lightly) moderating comments and getting rid of pollution.
They used to disconnect my PTCL(Pakistan) ISP internet every now and then. I called up PTCL, they didn’t care and took 5 days to fix the line .Every 3 days internet will stop working again. I did something creative, i lodged complains with government regulatory authority and emails to press. Then i threatened them ,i got email of “the CEO of PTCL” if you don’t fix it. Within days it was fixed. Now they don’t do it anymore. Why? Because if they do, i increased the freuqency of comments to double of my normal(3 hours).For me internet matters a lot because i work as a freelancer programmer and i do trading at KSE(stock exchange).The last thing they want all TIs sitting online and talking about 911 inside job,Iraq war lies, TIs torture and such.I recommend you to increase your comment activity to double of normal, they will know.Sometimes, its just better to sell everything(if your total worth is over $300,000) and move to country where it is cheaper to live (because they don’t let TIs work) and NSA has less demons to do their dirty work(i personally prefer North Korea for reasons you know).Of couse, even if you reach any corner of world, electronic torture would never stop unless you use protective shielding and such. They told me they want all TIs to work from home and never dare step outside their homes. I do go for regular walks where NSA terrorists beap horns like someone stepped on their tail(using mind control and real NSA demons).I always recommend go out, have fun, let them waste time. For walks, i wear earphones while NSA love beaping horns.Ignoring them is best way.
You should consider yourself a lucky camper. I did way more than you and they are still giving me all kinds of sh!t
https://ipsoscustodes.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/zersetzung-made-in-u-s-a/
RCL
Would somebody please target Mona so that she will get it? I would have had some difficulty wrapping my mind around this until I got targeted. Once you’re targeted, Mona, there is no mistaking it.
And lest you think I came across some website and then decided I must be targeted, that’s not how it works. Most targets spend months, even years in denial thinking, I must be imagining this; these are all just strange coincidences; surely people wouldn’t do such things; why me? And then you just get *pounded* by stalking and tailgating and strange comments and street theatre and spying that you can’t deny any longer. Zersetzung can’t happen today? Not in the Free World? Right…
Yes, a close relative of mine, now deceased, imagined such things. He was a paranoid schizophrenic who spent almost all of his adult live living on Social Security disability.
Read up on Zersetzung, for goodness sake! It’s meant to look like mental illness. And your comment about your relative spending most of his adult life on disability drives home my point–this type of mental illness most often begins to manifest in early adulthood. Most targets are middle aged or older.
It’s a widely held myth that psychosis always starts in early adulthood.
At best, Mona is way out of her league, here.
And as for some of the crazy comments?
1) We have a scroll bar for a reason.
2) Ignoring a behavior is the best way to extinguish it.
But Mona obviously can’t help herself. It amuses her, she says. She likes to think that she’s one of the smartest people in the room — probably because she usually is. But it’s a mistake to always believe that one is smarter and knows more than others.
Nope, never said that. Actually, I only very occasionally engage this bullshit. Along with a number of others, or Intercept writers on their own initiative, I sometimes seek deletions and bannings of repeat offenders.
The “Targeted Individuals” frequently crapflood here, which pollutes the comments conversation. Many writers won’t have that, and I certainly also object.
That all said, I erred in poking at the deluded as extensively as I have here. The thread is old now; when newer, I should have importuned the author to clean up.
“It amuses her, she says.” -from my earlier comment
“Nope, never said that.” -Mona
My apologies for getting that wrong, if I did. You’re right — you didn’t come right out and say it, so I stand corrected.
Yes… Denial thinking. I did it for years, by ignoring bizarre happenings around me or muttering, “that really did not just happen”. But it did happen. What took a little extra time to get my head around was the scale: the hundreds of perps and tens of millions of tax dollars spent on entertaining one unremarkable [sic] man.
A Stasi-like apparatus has been constructed and is currently operational from coast to coast in the U.S. And the best way to do it was to “target” those who are unremarkable (to use Mona’s descriptor). It’s that simple.
It’s not about you or any of the others who are being used. It’s about developing the tactics, methods, and infrastructure necessary to subject anyone at all to 24/7 surveillance in the U.S. — anywhere, any time, any place — and, if necessary, make a persons life extremely difficult. And it’s been done.
(Unfortunately — even tragically — there’s that not-so-little thing called blowback. And we’ve seen a lot of it. Still the benefits outweigh the costs, it would seem. Collateral damage was and is to be expected.)
So the apparatus is in place and anyone who tries to call attention to it is quickly marginalized. It’s easy to discredit those who are making “crazy” claims. Surround the topic with disinformation. And use the mentally ill — and mental illness — to make it all work.
Parental Warning: Contains references to beams of light and the voice of god.
Pavlov’s Warning: Links to files using the word “targeted” and “individual”
Earlier in this NUTJOB of a thread Mona asked WHO may have deployed evolving portable Microwave Auditory Effect “Voice of God” technologies domestically…
http://www.wired.com/2007/12/the-voice-of-go/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=76fLYUO-Csw
http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=1782
Answer: I don’t know WHO did or did not deploy different licensed or unlicensed builds of Microwave Audio Effect “voice of god” technologies domestically between 2007 and 2014.
But time marches on and now in 2015 there’s this…
(Here’s the current US Armys 2015 Way New and Way Improved Version. This tricked ou buffed up military version can also discretely “target” an “individual”
so there is that as well. Comments in parentheses)
“Please note that The aim of the project at first is to improve the understanding of how humans process sensory inputs before developing and invoking VISUAL AND AUDITORY HALLUCINATIONS which may be useful in the field.”
(Hmmm. Visual and auditory hallucinations that MAY be useful in the field.)
http://www.army-technology.com/features/featuredarpas-budget-unravelled
A Long Range Acoustic Device, the circular disk, mounted aboard the USS Donald Cook.
While the aspect of deceiving the enemy’s eyes on the battlefield is not a particularly new concept, never before has it been attempted on such a grandiose scale as what DARPA is now planning to achieve with its Battlefield Illusion project.
The ultimate aim of manipulating an adversary’s perception in order to, as DARPA JTRIG put it, “confuse, delay, inhibit or misdirect actions.”
The aim of the project at first is to improve the understanding of how humans process sensory inputs before developing invoking VISUAL AND AUDITORY HALLUCINATIONS that US forces could use in order to gain a tactical advantage in the field.
The project bears a striking resemblance to the ‘Voice of God’ Microwave Audio Effect weapon that has been continually linked to allied forces in Iraq,
,..despite the story being continually debunked to as apocryphal…
It has been said that forces have experimented with the use of Long Range Acoustic Devices, which can target a single person within a group from a specified range.
“They” then attempt to convince them that they were being spoken to from a higher power. The tales usually consist of Islamic terrorists being convinced to down arms by Allah and have been met with equal intrigue and skepticism in the past.
(“They” really are doing something very special things to convince “them” but you know how “they” are)
” The author of the post, Andrew Fishman, could have been entreated to clean up the mess (perhaps I should have done that), or he might have done so on his own initiative as other Intercept writers have done. But that didn’t happen, and every now and then the freaks run wild. I engaged them out of utter frustration and pique. ” – Mona
Mona, the Abu Ghraib torture queen, whines about Andrew Fishman not exercising censorship here that this very website was founded in part, to counter. What freaking law school did you attend?
You are not going to impose upon those who still have a conscience, your twisted wishes to have them cross the line into the barren moral world that you exist in, by adopting and embracing your gutter standards, your perverted morals, your twisted world-outlook and your sick preferences.
Just as you have tried hard with GG whom you embrace with a viper’s grip as your “friend” but who has shunned your arse since this website was founded because, like the rest of us, he probably sees you just for what you are.
But Mona Samsonova does speak the truth for once – about being in “utter frustration”. And utter frustration is what we shall keep you wallowing in. Because we shall not stop exposing the crimes that traitors to this country, including your sorry arse, are committing while camouflaged in a garb of false – patriotism. You mention somewhere down below that you have a mother. I am sure you do, but I wonder if she thinks she has a daughter.
But I must thank you for one thing: each time you bitch about stuff, exposing your ignorance and idiocy here that your handlers pay you for, you provide us with an excellent opportunity to expose. And inform. And educate.
So your “utter frustration” is self-inflicted, and who am I to deny you the indulgence. Some freaking stupid lawyer you are. You’d think a good one would know when a strategy is counter-productive. But then again, I said ” a good one”.
Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? Prod me to protest: “Nuh-uh! Glenn likes me! He really does!” FFS, you lack any capacity to make me defensive because of what you are.
You are a brain-addled crapflooder here and you reside in an alternate reality. You’ve been banned and had comments deleted because they are constant and replete with lunacy like this:
The Intercept is not a site for working out your therapeutic needs. If you imagine that you are “roasting” and are therefore actually dumping tons of ice in your bed, then Mother of Christ, get some professional help.
But this is not the place to work that all out.
APA ethical guidelines are fraught with problems. Their key principles (such as Nonmaleficence (doing no harm to those they work with) and Integrity (not engaging in subterfuge or intentional misrepresentation of fact) are undermined by wording about how these principles should be balanced against other considerations to “maximize benefit and minimize harm”.
The BPS is little better: it allows psychologists to cause harm if they think it will benefit others; and they are allowed to deceive if they believe it’s in their client’s best interest — which presumably has been twisted into deceiving the enemies of their client.
In medicine, the Hippocratic oath is absolute: a doctor must never cause harm. Just imagine if a doctor were allowed to poison a patient because they had been secretly identified as a “terrorist”. Even in law, minimizing harm is not (supposed to be) a valid justification for abandoning legal process.
But in psychology it seems there are no absolutes. If a bunch of soldiers and politicians convince you that you’re “minimizing harm” (an entirely subjective judgement), you’re allowed to be as maleficent and duplicitous as you like.
The public would be well justified in having no confidence in the APA or BPS and their weak codes of “ethics”.
“Psychologists should use their unique insights into human behavior to promote human welfare and dignity, not undermine or harm individuals…”
If that standard were applied to GCHQ and other “intelligence” agencies, then it’s likely they would be out of business permanently.
Now you’re gonna see how it feels to have America come down on you – George W. Bush (Fox News broadcast mid-Jan 2002).
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Useful Idiots
Aug. 8 2015, 1:28 p.m.
Can we agree that war is evil and peace is good? If so, then we might entertain are either or both necessary for the survival of the human species? And what of perpetual war? Isn’t that mankind creating and sustaining hell on this earth?
? Reply
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Useful Idiots
Aug. 8 2015, 2:19 p.m.
I can imagine an instance wherein – on a grand scale – it could lead to a civil war (played out via cyberspace). – JSH
Media wars? Information wars? Propaganda wars? Political wars? All ongoing simultaneously … in plain view and behind the scenes, i.e., closed doors, chambers and/or cyberspace. What are you observing occurring and playing out each day?
? Reply
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Useful Idiots
Aug. 8 2015, 2:32 p.m.
Agreed as to the doctrine of “implied consent” in the context of our conversation. As a subscriber to internet services and satellite TV, I permit no implied consent to being spied upon. Regardless of whether the pc is booted up or the television set is turned on/off. Neither do I provide expressed consent.
Richard Caldwell ? Joanne Susan Hosea
July 31 2015, 12:40 a.m.
“These programs were never about terrorism: they’re about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They’re about power.”
– Edward Snowden
? Reply
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Richard Caldwell
July 31 2015, 3:32 a.m.
Programs and operations that are designed to control, intimidate and manipulate behavior, or alter states of mind do, in fact, induce a myriad of responses in the subject(s). These responses cover the full range of emotional and psychological states; to include that of sheer terror. I know.
anoM (dufus) characters: Ft. Hill? How long have you been in training? You’ll never crush dissent or be able to kill TRUTH. :-)
To all NSA trolls here using various names to discredit TIs, i feel sorry for your souls.May God have mercy on your soul at moment of death but i don’t think God will consider mecy for those who sold soul to devil.The army of NSA trolls run in thousands with 100’s of slides to read and post comments from so Mona don’t stress.
Your Imaginary Friend in the sky doesn’t exist, nor does a Big Bad Debil below. That’s as bogus as the notions shrieked about by so-called “Targeted Individuals.” You know, such febrile crap as this:
toidiY sselesU:
For the most part, it’s only this thread. The crazies are generally not allowed to crapflood the place, but have gone wild in this thread. Some of the fault for that lies with me, because I inflamed them — stirred the proverbial mad hornets nest — by posting this: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/08/07/psychologists-work-gchq-deception-unit-inflames-debate-among-peers/?comments=1#comment-156045
And therein I said:
The author of the post, Andrew Fishman, could have been entreated to clean up the mess (perhaps I should have done that), or he might have done so on his own initiative as other Intercept writers have done. But that didn’t happen, and every now and then the freaks run wild. I engaged them out of utter frustration and pique.
But really, they are most often not permitted to corrupt the comments section like this.
Thanks, Mona, I very much appreciate what you have to say. Do see a recent comment of mine referring to you, just down below here somewhere.
Found it, and replied.
Joanne Susan Hosea
Aug. 8 2015, 10:43 a.m.
Dr. Christian Crandall, a professor in the University of Kansas’ social psychology program, disagrees with Dhami’s critics.
“It is certainly possible that JTRIG acts badly, spies on domestic (or American) targets, or even breaks international law. It is a stretch to hold Prof. Dhami responsible for this,” Crandall wrote. “[The report is] quite a bit like what the U.S. Army teaches their strategic communication officers. It’s less offensive than the behaviors of Karl Rove. It’s not benign…”
And what, pray tell, are the offensive behaviors of Karl Rove to which he, Dr. Crandall, refers? Puleez! This screams evil. EVIL!
Can you make a valid point or comment in 140 characters or less, clowns? Probably not. My guess, you all get paid by the hour plus commission. Just like garden variety stock bashers.
I find it truly tragic that the Comments section of The Intercept is fast becoming — see here below — a receptacle for such a disproportionate amount of sheer & utter trash, so I’m becoming ever more hesitant about joining the affray by posting comments of my own. That said, I recommend the serious minded to check out Friday’s & today’s (Monday’s) http://www.democracynow.org for updates on topical matters concerning the APA. Myself, I revere Amy Goodman and her coverage of this unfolding scandal over by now many years, but do lament the fact that she and her various interlocutors have failed to clarify what lies at bottom of the whole matter — an innate ethical conflict between all those so-called ‘psychologists’ who proudly identify themselves as [quasi-medical] ‘mental health professionals’ & ‘health care providers’, for whom mind-fucking their patients is held to be out of bounds; versus all those ‘operational consultants’ who are typically employed or commissioned by PR & ad agencies, insurance companies, the military and (so-called:) intelligence agencies, and the like, for whom mind-fucking is essentially what they’re paid to do. While the former Ph.D.s function as fake MD physicians, albeit concerned very largely not with the soma but with the psyche, the latter would do well to trace their line of descent to Edward Bernays, Mussolini [< the other one, I mean, not our friend here], Goebbels, et cetera. — In his interview with Amy G. broadcast today, New York psychoanalyst Steven Reisner of the Coalition for an Ethical Psychology, which has successfully pressured for this momentous reformation in the APA's ethics policy, candidly explains how his personal concern with, and his conscientious opposition to interrogation under torture harks back to what his own forebears were forced to endure during the Nazi Holocaust. It is to be hoped, therefore, that he might now feel inclined, in collaboration with his CfaEP colleague Stephen Soldz, to lobby the APA to publicly and loudly condemn what Israel has been up to — enhanced interrogation and all the rest of it — for by now many years in respect of its Palestinian Holocaust. Breaking news has it that Israel will now resort to the Gitmo tactic of force-feeding those of its Palestinian prisoners on hunger strikes, and this no doubt supervised by clinical psychologists and even authentic medical personnel so that the tactic might be thereby rendered kosher — or halal, at any rate. And it strikes me that, as a de facto US satellite in the Middle East, Israel might be suitably vulnerable and responsive to a massive ethical condemnation by so many of its APA brothers & sisters @ the USA. After all, aren't we all of us meant to be human, whether we're Americans or Arabs or whatever?
It’s like having physicians and nurses train to be executioners. It’s one think to provide a merciful passing for the terminally ill who wish to go with an overdose of morphine, and quite another to develop expertise in strapping humans into chairs or on gurneys to fry them or poison them and stop their hearts.
I’d have no problem with mental health professionals assisting government in perfecting moral, non-violent interrogation techniques. Or even in disrupting unambiguously criminal enterprises. But not people engaged in First Amendment activity just because some of their number may or occasionally have committed a crime.
Um, I have only one, as with most humans.
You mean like this?
That’s “crazy ass” alright, but hungergames is on *your team.
Quite honestly, I would rather have 100 more “Mona”s here instead of censorship
Don’t you find sorrily amazing that the NY Times hasn’t pusblished anything about the APA convention in Canada?
They may be waiting for orders from above about what to say and how to say it
RCL
Thanks. Myself, over time, I have found quite a number of Mona’s comments to be incisive and interesting enough. It is only when she falls into incontinent and spiteful tit-for-tats with particular commenters that I pull the plug and tune out. In referring to so much trash, I had any number of other commenters foremost in mind — plenty enough that I don’t even want to take in, let alone recollect their names. As for censorship, I would not advocate such as any kind of a remedy, and felt content with simply pointing out what, as it seems to me, is becoming a great problem — viz., having to wade through vast amounts of Dreck just to get to (or to retrieve, later on) a few gems (like those from the pen of the exquisite Mussolini). I guess I just wish that any number of commenters with pretty much nothing interesting or of any value to say would recognize their own vacuousness (and, often enough, vulgarity) and exercise some self-restraint (– or go elsewhere in quest of some kind of psychotherapeutic catharsis). — As for no APA @ NYT, thanks for pointing this out. Mind, last week @ Toronto Amy G. interviewed James Risen on the topic, so likely he has something in the works. Vederemo.
Thanks. I do have a strong interest in audience cults, and some undergrad training in the field. Cohorts who believe in strange and weird things in the absence of credible evidence have always fascinated me and I do stay a little current with the academic literature.
Yeah, I know I’m guilty of that. I don’t apologize for the “spiteful” aspect, but for a quantity that rises to incontinence, yeah — my bad.
Has anyone told Dr. Soldz he looks like half the mad characters in most TV dramas about covertly applied sciences? Just saying, I don’t comb my hair either, so we both must be geniuses.
This is what those animals called “psychologists” who helped institute torture have caused…
http://wemeantwell.com/blog/2015/08/10/the-destruction-of-tariq-ba-odah-by-the-united-states-of-america/#comment-54553
My country has now become the UNITED STATES OF DEPRAVITY. There are no words to describe the depth of contempt I have for those who have permitted this atrocity to happen. In a sane universe, they would be hung by the neck until dead…or shot by a firing squad. There is no shame left. God I hate my government.
Good morning. Hands up … The peoples of the world are watching, listening and reading. Have a wonderful day you’al! :-).
No More Torture: World’s Largest Group of Psychologists Bans Role in National Security Interrogations
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/15416
FRIDAY, MAR 25, 2011 04:26 PM CDT
Top Bush-era GITMO and Abu Ghraib psychologist is WH’s newest appointment
GLENN GREENWALD
http://www.salon.com/2011/03/25/james_4/
Christmas in August. I love it! Don’t say I never gave you anything. Do dah, ha. For some more good reads, go here: x
http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/
I found this to be a very fascinating story about a family persecuted in United States. The protagonist was a political activist and cancer researcher who eventually decided to seek asylum in Russia in 1986.
Though there is no mention of “lazer beams and aliens” the story describes many Cointelpro/ Zersetzung like tactics, which were designed to remain hidden
https://arnoldlockshin.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/silent-terror.pdf
Lockshin’s book is from 1988, and the COINTELPRO-type attacks on him when protesting the Vietnam war are of that era. He’s a Communist who defected to the USSR when it still was that and hasn’t lived in the U.S. since.
Cointelpro never ended, Mona, contrary FBI statements.
Thank you for including a book in my “to-read” list
Unfortunately:
Silent Terror: One family’s history of political persecution in the United States – 1988, by Arnold and Lockshin, Lauren Lockshin
ASIN: B0030X6Y2W
seems to be out of print and none of the other versions I found are “text searchable”
Would print-on-demand companies print that book?
RCL
https://arnoldlockshin.wordpress.com/different-formats-of-our-book/
“A searchable pdf of Silent Terror: One family’s history of political persecution in the United States”
thank you, buddy. it made my day!
RCL
There’s a whole lot of “crazy” — here, there, and everywhere — and the truth is difficult to discern. Please google FightGangStalking dot com and decide for yourself.
We do, in fact, have a Stasi-like apparatus in this country and there are people who are desperate — and will do (and say) anything — to try to discredit those who are trying to expose it. Left to run amok, there will be too many unintended consequences. We’re seeing them in cases like Myron May. The mentally ill (but who decides) are among those being targeted. “Troublemakers” are also being targeted, according to my sources. The entire topic (“gang stalking” — a terrible term) is mired in disinformation.
The APA needs to go further. Jean Maria Arrigo is reportedly aware of some of what’s transpiring. Perhaps she will become more vocal. Perhaps someone from “The Intercept” will interview her.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jul/13/psychologist-torture-doctors-collusion-jean-maria-arrigo
Who are your sources, and what is the basis for their credibility and knowledge on such matters?
Who or what is left to “run amok?” And what does this have to do with Myron May?
By whom, and with or by what?
Like what?
Who is “reliable” on the topic of “gangstalking?”
Pay the troll or leave the bridge, Captain. Mona’s gonna grill you for having an unrestrained word to say. She’s sorta like the Queen of Hearts here, but less ironic. If the Intercept ever carried a cooler, it’s this Winters, Shelly. Smart, but also a kicker, so keep those shins guarded!
Yup, when an “unrestrained” post contains unsupported assertions I do often ask if there is any support to be had.
There’s no point in responding to Mona’s questions. Having said this, I don’t give a damn what she thinks or believes, but here’s a little truth:
She’s way out of her league on this one. As is Sharon Weinberger.
So, I took a look around http://fightgangstalking.com and found the claim that most victims remain anonymous. Why is that? Why does that site claim that putting one’s name to one’s claims is a sign of being part of a disinformation campaign?
Also, why does that site offer almost all of its assertions without any supporting evidence? There is a huge, very noticeable lack of links in the postings there. Why?
You claim that I and Sharon Weinberger are “way out of [their] leagues on this one.” In light of the deficiencies in your recommended site, I find that mildly amusing.
Better take another look, Mona. What a bunch of hooey, on your part. Others can judge for themselves.
Be amused. Be very amused. This is one instance in which you are quite clearly in the dark…
#ROTFIGSL @ milprop TI’s.
note to self.. file under..
Great Moments in McDonald’s Class lV stupidity.
suggestion. Pray for intervention by God or a suspension of the laws of nature. Should that fail.. dip your head in the toilet and breath inward.
This is bait
Anti-Torture Psychologists Celebrate New APA Interrogation Ban
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz6IPUyNe7E
Bait / This is bait is a an internet slang term used to describe comments or opinions which are considered to be made purposefully to troll other posters or to start a flame war. The term is commonly found on message boards and in comment sections, including the 4chan imageboards.
Origin
In the 1990s, the term “flamebait” was used on Usenet to describe posts made specifically to incite an argument. One of the earliest examples of this was posted to the rec.autos.tech[2] newsgroup on August 20th, 1995, in response to a complaint that American-made cars used soft suspensions and automatic transmissions that made Americans look weak and incompetent. After the poster went on to complain that the United States was spending money that they thought should have been allotted for healthcare and education on the military, another user referred to the comments as “flamebait.” (knowyourmeme.com/memes/bait-this-is-bait)
Joanne Susan Hosea ? -Mona-
Aug. 10 2015, 1:57 a.m.
Low-life, cia spook-types never amount to anything. Didn’t you all learn a dang thing from the Abu Ghraib ’03 exposure?
? Reply
Joanne Susan Hosea ? -Mona-
Aug. 10 2015, 2:15 a.m.
anoM (dufus) et al: You and “your ilk” cannot escape the TRUTH :-) Heck your’all so dumbed down and conditioned you can’t get out of your own way. How stupid is that, dufus?
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Joanne Susan Hosea
Aug. 9 2015, 9:57 p.m.
LEADERSHIP 8/08/2015 @ 12:49PM 371 views
The APA Kills Off The ‘Gunslinger Model’ Of Psychology In Favor Of Human Rights
Todd Essig | Contributor
[Excerpt]
The approved resolution included a letter to be sent to “appropriate officers of the U.S. government, including the President, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, CIA Director, and Congress” stating in part:
“It is a violation of APA policy for psychologists to conduct, supervise, be in the presence of, or otherwise assist any individual national security interrogation, nor may a psychologist advise on conditions of confinement insofar as those might facilitate such an interrogation. Furthermore, based on current reports of the UN Committee Against Torture and the UN Special Rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, it is also a violation of APA policy for psychologists to work at the Guantánamo Bay detention facility, “black sites,” vessels in international waters, or sites where detainees are interrogated under foreign jurisdiction ‘unless they are working directly for the persons being detained or for an independent third party working to protect human rights’ or providing treatment to military personnel.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2015/08/08/the-apa-kills-off-the-gunslinger-model-of-psychology-in-favor-of-human-rights/
Joanne Susan Hosea [copy this day, author: Andrew Fishman :-)]
Aug. 7 2015, 4:08 p.m.
This is an outstanding piece of journalism, Mr. Andrew Fishman. Well done. I actually got through it and followed up with some research without becoming incensed for a change. This kind of shit has had such a devastating affect in my life, it usually makes me want to spit nails when I’m reminded about it.
anoM (dufus): “Beans, beans are good for your heart …” Now go play your circle-jerk games elsewhere. I don’t live in the shadows with cia spook-types and other low-life, treacherous scumbags.
No ice for you tonite, Joanne! No, you shall lie in a regular bed, burning up from all Our microwave beams. (And, We aren’t even going to let you have any of the popcorn.)
Remember: You can run, but you can’t hide.
Remember anoM, in the inevitable 9/11/01 II, you will die.
We all die. But l least I won’t die from being microwave-roasted while high radio frequency beams are doing nasty shit with my privates. That fate awaits you and all your TI pals.
I’ve always assumed you were intelligence, but your need to amplify your most detested topic rather than ignore those who disinterest you is giving your act away, Mona. Way to clear the room, cleaner.
Don’t get my hopes up!
http://www.dawn.com/news/1187915
If Mona is crazy by that defination the senators of Pakistani government who are well stable officials are insane and psychos that keep crying all the time about being harassed by EMF waves.
“Senator Malik recalled that once in his days as interior minister prying signals were detected in the cabinet room in the Prime Minister’s House. But since Pakistan lacked the capacity to block the spying activity, he said, the cabinet meeting only could be put off. ”
That proves enough how real EMF torture is. You can always email these senators and ask them details about they are being tortured.
A fuckwitted lunatic writes:
Not unless electronic surveillance — aka, spying — now constitutes torture. The Pakistani complaints were about bugging devices, not “torture.” But in the Disneyland of the Targeted-Individual community, such minor details are of no significance.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1187915
“Senator Malik recalled that once in his days as interior minister prying signals were detected in the cabinet room in the Prime Minister’s House. But since Pakistan lacked the capacity to block the spying activity, he said, the cabinet meeting only could be put off. ”
NSA don’t even spare poor Pakistani senators lol. Pakistani senators probably wake up in middle of night getting tortured and say it loud “damn it NSA .OK fine tomorrow i will pass that bill you want me to pass.I will buy all naked body scanners for Pakistani airports and you can have all those pictures from scanner now for love of God just let me sleep!!!”.
CRONYISM 101: ALL THE NSA WILL SAY ABOUT ITS ALARMINGLY ENTREPRENEURIAL TOP SPY IS THAT SHE’S RESIGNING
Published: October 25, 2014
SOURCE: THE INTERCEPT
[Excerpt]
[Teresa] Shea is not the only high-ranking current or former NSA official coming under scrutiny for their financial dealings. Former agency director Keith Alexander was engaged in commodity trading linked to countries such as Russia and China — countries upon which the NSA spied heavily — while he was working at the agency.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Cronyism_101%3A_All_the_NSA_Will_Say_About_Its_Alarmingly_Entrepreneurial_Top_Spy_Is_That_She%E2%80%99s_Resigning/38782/0/38/38/Y/M.html
Original: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/24/nsa-official-implicated-potential-conflicts-interest-resigns/
anoM (dufus) et al: You and “your ilk” cannot kill the TRUTH :-)
Stop where you are! Hear that front door opening? We have had just about enough of you spilling the beans. I have sent Them to your home, and They are now there.
The microwave, it is going to burn you so so hard and bad — right after They have made the popcorn in it. Now Joanne, you best be calling for an ice delivery because We are going to roast you as you’ve never been roasted before, and you are going to want lots of cubes. (And maybe a few Jello shots.)
You can’t say you were not warned. For We sent a voice to your brain and warned you last night.
You may now move, Joanne.
Low-life, cia spook-types never amount to anything. Didn’t you all learn a dang thing from the Abu Ghraib ’03 exposure?
Not so much. I already knew that the brass let’s hillbilly grunts like Lynndie England take the fall.
anoM (dufus) et al: You and “your ilk” cannot escape the TRUTH :-) Heck your’all so dumbed down and conditioned you can’t get out of your own way. How stupid is that, dufus?
Do not ask for whom the microwave torture-burning beams come for; they come for thee. Yeah, yeah, I get it. But I have lotsa ice so it’s all, um, cool. Rights Pat B.?
LEADERSHIP 8/08/2015 @ 12:49PM 371 views
The APA Kills Off The ‘Gunslinger Model’ Of Psychology In Favor Of Human Rights
Todd Essig | Contributor
[Excerpt]
The approved resolution included a letter to be sent to “appropriate officers of the U.S. government, including the President, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, CIA Director, and Congress” stating in part:
“It is a violation of APA policy for psychologists to conduct, supervise, be in the presence of, or otherwise assist any individual national security interrogation, nor may a psychologist advise on conditions of confinement insofar as those might facilitate such an interrogation. Furthermore, based on current reports of the UN Committee Against Torture and the UN Special Rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, it is also a violation of APA policy for psychologists to work at the Guantánamo Bay detention facility, “black sites,” vessels in international waters, or sites where detainees are interrogated under foreign jurisdiction ‘unless they are working directly for the persons being detained or for an independent third party working to protect human rights’ or providing treatment to military personnel.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2015/08/08/the-apa-kills-off-the-gunslinger-model-of-psychology-in-favor-of-human-rights/
~
By a nearly unanimous vote, the American Psychological Association’s Council of Representatives voted today in Toronto to adopt a new policy barring psychologists from participating in national security interrogations. Retired Col. Larry James, the former top Army intelligence psychologist at Guantánamo, cast the sole dissenting vote. Aug 07, 2015
~
democracynow.org/blog/2015/8/7/breaking_apa_votes_to_bar_psychologists
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// __ Democracy Now!: Anti-Torture Psychologists Celebrate New APA Interrogation Ban
~
youtube.com/watch?v=sz6IPUyNe7E
~
RCL
~
youtube.com/watch?v=sz6IPUyNe7E&t=697
~
I am a psychologist because I believe we answer to an authority that … what is right not what is “law”, because what is “law” can be twisted and do evil …
When I saw psychologists were part of this? Psychologists were using their expertise strategically to help torture and abuse?
~
RCL
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Useful Idiots
Aug. 8 2015, 1:28 p.m.
Can we agree that war is evil and peace is good? If so, then we might entertain are either or both necessary for the survival of the human species? And what of perpetual war? Isn’t that mankind creating and sustaining hell on this earth?
? Reply
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Useful Idiots
Aug. 8 2015, 2:19 p.m.
I can imagine an instance wherein – on a grand scale – it could lead to a civil war (played out via cyberspace). – JSH
Media wars? Information wars? Propaganda wars? Political wars? All ongoing simultaneously … in plain view and behind the scenes, i.e., closed doors, chambers and/or cyberspace. What are you observing occurring and playing out each day?
? Reply
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Useful Idiots
Aug. 8 2015, 2:32 p.m.
Agreed as to the doctrine of “implied consent” in the context of our conversation. As a subscriber to internet services and satellite TV, I permit no implied consent to being spied upon. Regardless of whether the pc is booted up or the television set is turned on/off. Neither do I provide expressed consent.
People who design, implement or employ these types of human experimentation are devoid of ethics; that is, morally bankrupt. They can rationalise their involvement and/or behaviors all day long, it doesn’t make their actions justifiable. Are we supposed to presume their intended targets or groups give their “implied consent” for this sort of so-called human behavioral research? Ridiculous! It’s a farce, if not an outright crime. I can imagine an instance wherein – on a grand scale – it could lead to a civil war (played out via cyberspace). Let’s face it. This experimentation is the “ultimate in cyberwarfare”. What possible good can come of it? Evil begets evil. Only good can ultimately triumph over evil.
ROBIN KOERNER & WILLIAM “BILL” BINNEY (cont.)
[BREAK]
ROBIN: In the final segment, I just want to ask you, Bill – and thanks again for being here with me on Blue Republican Radio — is it worse in America than everywhere else or is everywhere else catching up? Is this an American anti-civil liberties disease or is it a global one?
BILL: Well, it started all here within the US and it focused on US citizens. Then it spread around the world for the US to do it, but also at the same time the Five Eyes group (Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, and the US) went together on this and then other countries were joining it. So that you see that they’re all adopting the same procedures of bulk acquisition of data and information and using it to share…and they’re sharing it back and forth. Just recently the Bundesamt found out that the B&D, the equivalent of the NSA and CIA over in Germany, was also sharing data with NSA, and collecting data on their own citizens. So it’s really a worldwide process that started here but is infecting entire governments, democracies around the world as well. And so it’s really destroying the entire fabric of democracy everywhere on the planet. I mean, Ronald Reagan used to say that “we’re a country with a government,” well, now we’re a government with a country and we’re making everybody else that way too.
ROBIN: My god. That seems to be such a depressing note to end on. I would just say… I mentioned at the beginning of this show that we’ve just marked the 800th anniversary of the Magna Carta…
http://www.bluerepublican.org/2015/07/20/william-binney-nsa-whistle-blower-stasi-culture-of-nsa-is-making-us-less-safe/
Magdalene: note, BILL: … the “Five Eyes,” and the other 8 countries that are participating with the NSA …
William Binney: Stasi Culture of NSA Is Making Us Less Safe
July 20, 2015 By robin
[Excerpt]
BILL: And another way to look at it is: if you require your analysts to look at everybody in the planet, which is about 4 billion people using electronic devices. Then, assume if you had all these countries —the “Five Eyes,” and the other 8 countries that are participating with the NSA in this kind of data (acquisition and analysis) – then perhaps you could assemble 20,000 analysts among all of them. Once you have that, then you have to divide the 20,000 into 4 billion that means each analyst, if you could uniquely divide it up, would have to monitor 200,000 people. That’s like a, you know, fairly good-sized city.
ROBIN: Yes.
BILL: So it’s kind of hard to imagine how any analyst could possibly do that, so by taking this approach instead of using a disciplined, professional attack, they have made their analysts totally dysfunctional and they can’t succeed. Case in point: the shooting in Texas. Two days before those two gunmen tried to get in to kill people and that cartoon contest down in Texas, a member of Anonymous tipped off the local police that this attack was going to happen two days in advance of it. Now that’s what our intelligence community is supposed to do, but our intelligence community said absolutely nothing. Why? Because they’re looking at massive amounts of people. They don’t have the focused look that Anonymous did.
http://www.bluerepublican.org/2015/07/20/william-binney-nsa-whistle-blower-stasi-culture-of-nsa-is-making-us-less-safe/
Christian C Holmer: Thousands of people know that I have been targeted as a T.I. (Targeted Individual) for the last 13 1/2 years. Moreover, that I have been resident right here in the U.S., and unable to travel outside of the country. I do not possess a valid passport for one reason. How so many people know about my – shall I call it – “status” is a whole other matter; however. Hmm.
Acknowledged and appreciated.
Christian C Holmer & friendlies: You’re rather exceptional and also highly valued and much appreciated. Thank you! :-)
anonymous: Yup. Relevant, current and ongoing. Thank you! ????
New Docs Raise Questions About CIA Spying Here at Home
By Ashley Gorski, Nadine Strossen Fellow, National Security Project, ACLU
JUNE 15, 2015 | 10:45 AM
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/new-docs-raise-questions-about-cia-spying-here-home
Marvelous. Thank you, coram nobis! ox ???? (Now one year later…)
Press Conference by the President | whitehouse.gov 08/01/14
[Q&A Excerpts]
On Brennan and the CIA, the RDI report has been transmitted, the declassified version that will be released at the pleasure of the Senate committee.
I have full confidence in John Brennan. I think he has acknowledged and directly apologized to Senator Feinstein that CIA personnel did not properly handle an investigation as to how certain documents that were not authorized to be released to the Senate staff got somehow into the hands of the Senate staff. And it’s clear from the IG report that some very poor judgment was shown in terms of how that was handled. Keep in mind, though, that John Brennan was the person who called for the IG report, and he’s already stood up a task force to make sure that lessons are learned and mistakes are resolved.
With respect to the larger point of the RDI report itself, even before I came into office I was very clear that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 we did some things that were wrong. We did a whole lot of things that were right, but we tortured some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our values. […]
But having said all that, we did some things that were wrong. And that’s what that report reflects. And that’s the reason why, after I took office, one of the first things I did was to ban some of the extraordinary interrogation techniques that are the subject of that report.
And my hope is, is that this report reminds us once again that the character of our country has to be measured in part not by what we do when things are easy, but what we do when things are hard. And when we engaged in some of these enhanced interrogation techniques, techniques that I believe and I think any fair-minded person would believe were torture, we crossed a line. And that needs to be — that needs to be understood and accepted. And we have to, as a country, take responsibility for that so that, hopefully, we don’t do it again in the future.
– President Barack Obama
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/08/01/press-conference-president
Dear Mona:
About your guru (Sharon Weinberger):
1) very obviously, she doesn’t seem to know what the eff she is talking about (but she doesn’t talk about such topics like you). She makes it clear:
http://sharonweinberger.com/blog/?p=130
she seems to be overwhelmed by people’s reactions and abysmally willing to trust “psychologists” and “psychiatrists” …
2) She is TI, so I assume (hope?) she has some healthy neurons, since we don’t have a way to clone more Glenns, Scahills, Poitras, McLaughlins, Froomkins …
I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, so I listened to her youtube talks about her book “Imaginary Weaponry”, which wasn’t so will received for reasons which may not relate to my point, and I realized:
2.1) she seems to have a brain
2.2) she said she used to work for the government (which makes one wonder about §2.1)
2.3) she is not neurobiologist, (physical) scientist or technical person
2.4) in regards to §2.2, she may not have ever had even harassed by police. I doubt she has ever been grilled by police, been imprisoned, … She doesn’t seem to be aware of one of the most basic “tools” (as they call them) or modus operandi of gringo police: “plausible deniability”
I think §2.3 and §2.4 are important because she will have to investigate herself that kind of stuff if she wants to write a book about mind control. How will she be able to do so if she doesn’t have a sense of that kind of reality? In a sense she reminds me of Dianne Feinstein when she said: “I am not a techie” … “‘I have been told’ what Snowden says is not technically possible …” or the specialists in Islam in the Soviet Union who had never been to a Muslim country
3) what goes off from: http://sharonweinberger.com/blog/?p=130
as: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/comments/display?contentID=AR2007011001399
is being redirected to: washingtonpost.com
At her request?
~
She regrets being bombarded by messages of people claiming to have been targeted (while I salivate at the thought of having access to that data) and yes, there is a reason “’why’ so many people believe the things they believe” it is a field of study called Anthropology.
Does she expect to relay of people’s word of mouth, like those idiots from the pentagon that would tell her about the nuclear resistant bunker they were building in their backyards?
Does she believe, she will have it as easy, finding out about “mind control” (which by the way, is a “red herring” most probably exploited, recycled by them from popular myths and confusions) without a Jason group?
Has she even asked herself how come there is not such a thing as a Jason group for “psycho” things?
I will still dive a little deeper into her discussions I found at:
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011001399.html
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/01/12/DI2007011201368.html
let me know if you know of any other ones
RCL
You unhappiness with Sharon Weinberger is as relevant as your observation that my name means “she-monkey” in Spanish.
Say, are you also being roasted 24/7 and needing to fill your bed with ice like Pat B is? Do you TIs get discounts on industrial ice machines if you buy in bulk? Cuz I’m thinkin’ you should start a TI buyers club for, you know, your special needs.
Sweetheart:
just imagine you could be as creative and assertive writing prose as you are when you are being offensive to people (by the way your offenses generally sound crazier than they are hurtful).
Here are three tunes. 1st 2 ones I would dedicate to you from the bottom of our (TIs) hearts ;-)
// __ The Beatles – All You Need is Love (Lyrics)
~
youtube.com/watch?v=vAJRBIHkQFs
~
// __ FROM A DISTANCE – Bette Midler
~
youtube.com/watch?v=Pvzc0vmKDEY
~
the 3rd one is from one of my favorite composers. I have been repeating it lately
~
// __ Egberto Gismonti – Dom Quixote
~
youtube.com/watch?v=QgmbaBeM4bY
~
RCL
Ricardo, Ricardo…oh my dear. Being told *I* sound crazy by someone from an audience cult where people claim to be roasted 24/7 by microwave torture, and so having to sleep on a bed of ice, and a group where folks think beams from the ionosphere are playing with their junk, the same cohort that includes a guy who shot up students at a university after months of hearing voices in his head — Ricardo, being told by a member of that group that I sound crazy, well.
Well.
in other words, your friend seems to have her ducks but, does she expect for the ducks to make a line by themselves?
She doesn’t seem to be able to put them all in a row.
RCL
Does employing jtrig tactics against african jounalists or american animal rights activists qualify as psychological torture or emotional abuse?
it depends if the U.S., the Israeli gov or the police in f#ck the EU fiefdom do it is not, what they do is “freedom-lovingly make sure there is justice in the Universe …” ™
If pro-Russia Putin’s goons, Al-Qaeda or Boko Haram do it is an despicably inhumane savage act
RCL
Oh dear, my mother is going to be so ashamed. Pat B. says of me:
Yes, it’s so. This is what happens to Pat B. and I (of course, Nazi that I am) think it’s fucking wonderful:
Pat, is there a fund I can contribute to to ensure that you and all the TIs are roasted unsparingly and forced to sleep on mountains of ice? (That must be costly — do you have an industrial-sized ice-maker?) The very thought delights me in ways you cannot imagine, and I want more, MORE, MORE!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHA
(Sorry Mom!)
moaning -mona-
“More More More!!!”
Daddy Has A Load Of Disinformation For My Sock.
Hope you got your nether parts covered in lead-lined Kevlar. Cuz boy oh boy, We are gonna direct some high frequency beams off the ionosphere and zap that junk.
I can only come here sporadically. So, adios for now.
Finally, thank you Andrew Fishman. If it is not asking too much, I request that you just ask Dr. Soldz to read the comments on this important article. I ask for no more.
Thank you.
Just three days ago (08.06.2015), a professional document with highly redacted segments on DEW was removed from my bag, along with other documentation of the latest torture which makes what you have read earlier look like a garden party. I used the document as a professional reference on how DEW works, specifically targeting the planted deniers and those who genuinely are unaware and wish to be informed.
The document was part of a study on how to inflict pain on humans. It identified the specific cell populations on the skin nociceptors responsible in the generation of the pain sensation. It identified the proteins involved in the transduction of pain stimuli into a signal fit for recognition by the brain. It described the benefits of prolonged pain when the transduction is totally bypassed and the pain is implemented at brain-code level instead. There is more that is too technical for me to write here.
My head and later parts of the upper body, were roasted for nearly a year, 24/7, in 2010 with DEW. I slept on a bed of ice every night, with my head surrounded by ice in order to offset the heat. The cold presented its own miseries and the protection was hardly effective. The level of pain is similar to poking your head inside of an oven whose broiling setting has been turned on.
While Beason talks about the beam being escapable when one moves out of its line of sight, the beam width was wide enough to cover my entire house, and every square inch of every room.
I left home and slept in motels and hotels, where I’d have a reprieve for a night or so, before the torture team would move in and roast away with a vengeance. In class, a dedicated student openly pointed the portable version to roast me away. I later asked her where her father was from. Russia she said. Now works for the US. (Oh My God! Oh My God!, she kept saying.
Finally, they drove me to an emergency room where a doctor there told me that I needed to see a shrink while my husband was surrounded by a bunch of strange men in the corridor, keeping him away from me.
When it became clear that I had little respect for the doctor’s recommendations to see a shrink, they sent in a younger one, to whom I handed over a trove of technical material on DEW. He said: ” God, people need to know about this! “, as he schemed through the material, studying the papers and viewing the images of some of the devices used in electromagnetic torture.
The following day, they had intimidated this young doctor enough for him to greet me with the words: ” You need to see a shrink.”
This is how Dr. Arrigo articulated how these tortures rot democracies from within. By corrupting and staining the medical profession, the psychological profession, the legal profession, and other professions to the extent that you have things like Mona today, dedicated to cheering on activities that amount to what the Nazis were sent to the gallows for.
Pat, most doctors and shrinks know nothing about DEWs, and they follow the lead of the head of the psychiatric association, who is probably as ethical as the head of the APA was.
What you are a victim of is indeed the equivalent of what the Nazis did, but people like Mona don’t know this, which combined with her unfortunate nature leads to her very unkind posts. Don’t let her upset you, what does she know about anything?
” Don’t let her upset you, what does she know about anything? ” – aboutthis
Thanks. No, Mona does not upset me. She simply does not rise up to the level. Very few things truly upset me, because the emotional state of being upset is a serious expenditure in energy and time that the likes of Mona hardly qualify for.
But she is gonna get it every time she disses targeted individuals until all that is left of the rag that she is, is shreds.
I’m pleased to be able to say that I wasn’t there, so this will be an anecdotal observation and statement. Doctors, in a general (or more likely around 99 percent of them), don’t refer to psychiatrists or therapists as “shrinks.” And they certainly don’t refer to psychiatrists or therapists as “shrinks” when they are recommending that someone who is in their office should consider seeing a psychiatrist or therapist.
Ah! “Hungergames” takes issue with “Pat B.”:
Take that, Pat B.! Hungergames has EMF signals following him (literally!). S/he’s showed his/her family. So, what have you got to say about that, hmm?
And Pat, note this from Hungergames:
How many embassies have you spoken with Pat, eh? Have any confirmed your EMF torture?
[I worry that in a previous life I enjoyed pitching pennies at the residents of Bedlam.]
So, the delusional ones are now out in full throttle.
…and the semi-delusional!
Dr. Stephen Soldz, I called your number sometime in 2011 and you politely answered the phone. Before I could say a word, the phone went dead. I knew you did not cut the line. When I redialed your number, an electronic voice came over IMPERSONATING you, saying “This is Stephen Soldz”. It was my time to hang up.
All of it was an attempt by the parties involved in my remote abuse in a diabolical mind control torture operation to abort any chance for me to communicate what is happening to me, the purpose for which I made the call.
I now request you to please read my account in the url referenced below, and to please share it with Dr. Maria Jean Arrigo whose works I have read, in addition to yours, as well as Dr David Hoffman, author of “The Hoffman Report” on the complicity of the APA’s military intelligence wing in torture operations. Help us. Please.
http://freedomfchs.lefora.com/topic/7442322/nanodevices-in-sensory-overload-mind-control-torture
” So, yes, there is technology designed to beam painful invisible rays at humans, but the weapon seems to fall far short of what could account for many of the TIs’ symptoms. While its exact range is classified, Doug Beason, an expert in directed-energy weapons, puts it at about 700 meters, and the beam cannot penetrate a number of materials, such as aluminum. Considering the size of the full-scale weapon, which resembles a satellite dish, and its operational limitations, the ability of the government or anyone else to shoot beams at hundreds of people — on city streets, into their homes and while they travel in cars and planes — is beyond improbable. ” – Mona
Tamara Samsonova, you have the perfect arrogance that only absolute ignorance can confidently display. Beason wrote the book millenia ago. The DEW technology has advanced to a stage today that your ignorant arse would never manage to comprehend.
DEW weapons systems have a RANGE OF POWER that is SCALABLE for use in specific scenarios, from portable devices that can target one or a few persons at a time, to giant systems whose beam width covers vast areas, an appropriate tool for large crowds.
Secondly, DEW weapons systems is only a very SMALL PART of the family of electromagnetic energy-based systems. There are weaponized nanoparticles .There are scalar weapons systems. There are sonic weapons systems, to name just a few. ALL of which are used in the remote torture of innocent Americans. Their biological manifestations necessarily vary in accordance with the choice and type of weaponry used on each abused person.
Go eat another human limb, perp!
You are severely unhinged.
“DEW weapons systems have a RANGE OF POWER that is SCALABLE for use in specific scenarios, from portable devices that can target one or a few persons at a time, to giant systems whose beam width covers vast areas, an appropriate tool for large crowds.
Secondly, DEW weapons systems is only a very SMALL PART of the family of electromagnetic energy-based systems. There are weaponized nanoparticles .There are scalar weapons systems. There are sonic weapons systems, to name just a few”
Just to name a few…
Its not DEW at all. Its called EMF manipulation.I have EMF reader with me and i have shown it to my family how EMF waves follow me around.My family denied it at first then i took the samples of EMF and showed it to person who works in EMF research, he was very suprised that why EMF signals are following me literally? and Why these EMF waves are using electrical wiring as a medium and following a path? If i turn off whole house electricity these EMF waves fall down but still some weird waves find way to ONLY follow me alone. I did talk with someone who works in government who told me this is EMF torture through which they read minds,burn skin,torture people.
PS: i am not surprised if NSA propaganda army has arrived to discrefit TIs. My talk wtih various embassies also concluded they did admit my claim that this is EMF torture.By your logic, embassies of Russia and China are crazy.
1. What make and model of EMF reader are you using (they grind up most of the good stuff before it gets back to the states) and what sort of digital archive did you provide the EMF researcher?
2. May I have the full name and contact information for the EMF Research Facility where the (shall remain unnamed) researcher you cite above investigated such anomalies?
Its a simple EMF reader so lets say reading is showing you have 500 EMF current around you on the scale so i walk from point A to B just to realize that EMF around me has now become 500 at point B. Its like ghost hunter movies EMF like in simple words. If you ever see ghost movies, where they say “look this area has EMF means a ghost is here” but in my case that guy works in EMF protection for the government like he builds anti-EMF nets for military equipment.He is just an engineer but since he develop anti-EMF nets, he knows the concept to an extent. His own understanding was in normal language ” you can say a ghost is following you but scientifically there is no ghosts so obviously its a EMF signal being controlled form a super computer”. He don’t to get involved directly with TIs(he told me he has a son and family and don’t NSA to kidnap his son for revenge) but its not hard to detect EMF just buy a simple EMF reader online(make sure NSA don’t tamper it before delivery).If you read a book chasing phatoms , there the author talks about same problem “being followed my EMF signals” i basically tried the same thing so i can convince my family that i am not crazy so now they understand something is really wrong.They still prefer to call those EMF waves “ghosts” but i always call them what they are, “NSA Demonic EMF signals” lol.That guy told me to either buy $500 8 band frequency jammer(i don’t have $500 so can’t afford that now since NSA stole my job,my career). Next funny thing i noted is they, for some strange reasons, use electric grid in the house as attacking source, like my computer even turned off with battery is sometimes giving high EMF but sometimes my laptop has zero EMF around it. Its just too complicated. Its a very complicated how NSA is using EMF for remote nueral monitering torture to make Monarch mind control slaves but one thing is understood for me they are using EMF and electricity grid. All humans have unique EMF frequency just like our fingerprints and DNA.NSA technically can track any human. Which brings us to question that means NSA knew all along where Osama is? where saddam is? where ISIS leaders are? Answer is yes if they recorded their EMF frequency before. If NSA tells me they don’t know where ISIS leader is? Come on, he was put in jail and NSA technically record all criminals EMF frequecnies when they get arrested so they can track them forever. There is however one trick which NSA hates a lot, DICE like you have to do a certain thing A,B,C,D throw a dice and do an option then NSA even if they read your mind didn’t know what you will do so they can’t snchronize events to harass you. I hope that help other TIs but i am sure NSA varies technology from person to person so its hard to judge what they are using right now.Like for example i go for job i am always harassed by 2 cars of same colour and model to harass me but if i use dice to go to work using 3 different routes then harassment is less because its hard for NSA to snchronize the whole journey that easy.The major issue they snchronize events so if we become RANDOM using a DICE, they always have issues but always do use DICE seconds before doing something.
As can be seen from the comments of “Targeted Individuals” commenting in this thread and other Intercept threads, it is common for them to claim that the government creates fake TI web sites and introduces fake information into TI conversation in an attempt to discredit real TIs. They will also claim TIs are harassed and threatened by the government to shut up, and even killed. This strategy is not unique to TIs and is shared by believers in other bizarre plots for which there is no evidence.
Indeed, it’s a ploy also common in the UFO/alien-abduction audience cult, as seen here in an interviw with UFO fanantic Nigel Watson:
These TIs are just re-running the UFO script.
Except that, unlike the issue of aliens visiting Earth, there is documented evidence of governments targeting and harassing individuals while leaving no trace, such as Zersetzung in East Germany and COINTELPRO in the United States, as well as evidence of governments using disinformation to discredit targets. In my opinion, claims resembling what is documented to have happened in the past deserve a closer look. To be clear, I’m not talking about the blatant bullshit that relates to energy weapons or microwaves or beaming or zapping or other such nonsense that has effectively derailed conversations. I’m talking about things like employment interference, mail tampering, black-bag jobs, family and community members being recruited as snitches (which, if these people were recruited to keep tabs on someone, might look an awful lot like stalking to an innocent person who had no idea that he was seen as a danger to the community), and—yes—disinformation. Claims like these are far too similar to what’s been documented as FACT to just be brushed off as mere delusions.
This is not so. It is not actually possible to leave no trace.
Right. There are hordes of people all over the U.S. and the Western world who are being roasted 24/7 with microwave torture devices, which force them to sleep on beds of ice. (What must their mates think and do?) These same folk are often sexually stimulated with remote beams bouncing from the ionosphere. And, the Nefarious Torturers plant voices in their heads telling them they’ve never used a particular lotion before (shortly after which the Targeted Individual goes and shoots up some students at the university).
That’s just like what the Stasi did in East Germany. And every bit of this happens without leaving a whit of evidence.
pffft
Zersetzung and COINTELPRO were deployed with the intent of leaving no trace. In the case of COINTELPRO, only activists seemed to be aware that anything was going on. In fact, activists were so sure of the FBI’s interference that they were willing to break into an FBI office and steal documents in an effort to prove and expose their claims and suspicions. Before there were documents, however, the activists only had their claims and suspicions.
As for the last part of my comment, the part about FACTS, it seems that you missed what I said before. So, I’ll restate:
To be clear, I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BLATANT BULLSHIT that relates to energy weapons or microwaves or beaming or zapping or other such nonsense that has effectively derailed conversations.
I don’t know how to spell it out more clearly than this. For some reason, you keep returning to nonsensical ramblings about microwaves and the ionosphere. I never said these were facts. What I am talking about are documented facts (like Zersetzung and COINTELPRO) and claims that sound far too similar to these things (black-bag jobs, mail tampering, employment interference, family and community snitches, disinformation, etc…) to be brushed off as mere delusions. These are the sorts of claims that resemble what is documented to have happened in the past and which, in my opinion, deserve a closer look.
Have you read Will Potter’s book “Green is the New Red: An Insider’s Account of a Social Movement Under Siege”? Snitches, infiltrators, threats to make phone calls that render the target unemployable, and much worse. *THAT* happens to real people — activists in various social justice, environmental and animal rights movements.
I respect that you don’t want to be smacked around with the heaping loads of teh cray cray that the “Targeted Individuals” are spewing here and around the Internet. It took me a bit to see that you are not one of the nuts.
Unfortunately, the freaks have been infesting this site for many months now and their presence is not wanted, yet they keep returning. So, I’ve decided just to be fucking vicious when they persist.
But I seriously do understand the point you are making and entirely agree.
That is the beauty of NSA. They always vary technology from person to person so its hard for TIs to agree on common things. You are right and Mona is also right.For Mona they are very likely using remote nueral monitering or sometimes using energy weapons but for others they are just showing half picture of gang stalking and hiding remote nueral monitering side.
http://www.pauladaunt.com/books/Banned%20books%20and%20conspiracy%20theories/Remote%20Viewing%20By%20Tim%20Rifat.pdf
Ultimately, there is ONLY one solution to this gang stalking or RMM, IGNORE. the more you ignore it, the more NSA hates you
http://in2worlds.net/abductions2
A good website where author had same conclusion IGNORE it. That is what they don’t like.
Thank you.
Great new article from Marcy Wheeler at truth-out.org
Is the Intelligence Community Inspector General Trying to Give Contractors Whistleblower Protections?
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/32276-is-the-intelligence-community-inspector-general-trying-to-give-contractors-whistleblower-protections#
Thanks for the url, interesting indeed. Any whistle blower protection improvement is a positive, if indeed this proves to be one.
Thank you for the link… Marcy Wheeler is doing some of the best unheralded ground pounding out there… in other words, she is a national treasure among investigative journalists…
anoM (dufus) et al: As previously stated, several of the so-called commenters here remind me of garden variety “stock bashers”. (Though I don’t discount one participant with several aliases.) At any rate, it wasn’t uncommon for a company to file a law suit against website posters who “disrupted and interfered with the normal course of business”. You clearly are attempting to deter others from reading and participating on The Intercept_ site.
You goofball, you are likely one of the nutbars Glenn Greenwlaald and other Intercept writers have deleted and banned under a previous account name. Certainly they’ve dispatched many a “Targeted Individual” crapflooder.
YOURS is the account at risk, not mine.
Joanne, don’t let Mona upset you. There is no evidence available at present that she is a spokesperson for Greenwald or the Intercept. Mona is offensive in the way she addresses TIs, and even if she genuinely believes that TIs are crazy, what she does still constitutes abuse. So far nobody has silenced you nor anyone else supporting the TI position on this thread.
I speak for no one but myself.
I can’t really complain to anyone about it given that I encouraged it. It just struck me as time in a thread about psychology to have another go at the explanation of the TI audience cult.
If you think this is bad you should see me going after creationists who claim their crap is science. Any sort of woo-woo gets my dander up, and this TI stuff is pretty woo.
Mona,
I said I would not engage with you and this is a one off exception.
The fact that some TIs sound woo is one of the intended consequences of the targeting, not a precursor to it. I want to believe that if you knew how bad a situation these people are in you wouldn’t behave as you do. Stop baiting them, calling them names, threatening them with expulsion from the comments by implying you are a Greenwald insider and that Greenwald doesn’t want them here. You are having fun but you are compounding the damage done to these people. They live in pain and in terror. There is no need for you to add to it.
I am logging off now, so don’t bother replying to this.
Uh-huh.
Given that multiple of his regular readers have complained about these pests and asked for deletions and bannings, and that Glenn has agreed and done both, I know for a fact that you are wrong.
The solution is so utterly elementary: Go away. Stay away. Go romp at your TI sites, of which I have seen there are oodles. We’ve heard quite enough about the 24/7 roasting with microwave torture and beds of ice, thank you very much.
Mona regurgitates
Absolutes are not a part of Mona’s vocabulary as declared previously. Check.
And Mona has never said “we” regarding the deletion of comments which she deemed injurious to the reader. Check +.
Mona is a siren for the lenk’s and Louise’s of the world; we rest easy knowing her song is on an independent label …
Here is a funny one. NSA called up police( overseas) on me and told them heaps of B*** about me but i denied all so NSA felt horrible. Then NSA came up with a funny story “This guy is using witchcraft and ghosts against us”.When Police official told me that i was like “how can i control ghosts? I am myself a victim”. The police officer started laughing and said “it seem you have put fireworks in NSA’s underwear”. I told the police “next time, when NSA calls up about me, finish talk with ‘God bless America’ ” .The police officer again had a call from NSA and he finished call with ‘God bless America’ and NSA went crazy mad at him saying “why did you say that? are you on his side too?” He asked me “Why NSA over reacted” i replied “Because NSA has karma after them, NSA think God is after them”. Police guy scrated his head and replied “you know they will kill you one day”. I replied “they can but they are afraid how God will settle scores if they go that way?”.
I never (sic) said that. Absolutes are not always (sic) wrong or ill-adivsed, e.g., “I have never killed anyone.” Similarly, I speak for no one but myself.
That’s right. Didn’t happen. Among other things, I almost never find a mere comment “injurious” to a reader. The idea is generally preposterous.
You really are a card, Mona.
Here
Here
You chum more trolls than any other commenter here.
A few weeks ago I received this message from someone calling themselves “nonanon”
In resonse to posting contemporaneous links and extracts to articles on the DHS and their communit building efforts.
nonanon ? Christian C Holmer
July 24 2015, 9:08 a.m.
Going dark: seeing porn, pedofilia, illicit affairs, etc etc. . .”acknowledged that the government’s expanded surveillance capabilities are considerable.” The new expanded capabilities. Those are the special words. What are those expanded capabilities? And how are they being used? Are they “extralegal”?
See through your eyes, hear what you hear, know what you think before you think it. Steal your intellectual property out of your neural networks. Torture and rape you remotely. Control your thoughts. Track you. Hook your mind up to a computer program. Stagecraft your life. Set you up for a criminal act. Take your business or job. Take your home. Control and censor everyone you come in contact with. Make you sick or kill you through suicide, heart attack, stroke, etc. Complete and total mental, physical control and surveillance, from inside of your mind. You will never have another private moment, ever.
Our tax dollars at work.
Fully operational. Bank on it.
mindjustice.org
MY RESPONSE
Christian C Holmer ? nonanon
July 24 2015, 1:51 p.m.
Dear non anon
Well thats unsettling but direct. I have to be frank at this stage my lifes journey I feel essentially pure in heart and mind. Spiritually grounded and generally putting the best interests of others ahead of our own in the face of good fortune. I wish you no ill will.
The goats are making short work of those blackberries the dogs are eating bones and my daughters playing Minecraft with her friends. My baby girl is coming in later with a friends city dog later today so that’ll be alot of fun.
My private thoughts over the last 5 years have been those of a thankful benevolent and essentially spiritual nature on the whole. My only occasional fantasies are about adult women I actually meet or have some direct flirtation with. We have no financial troubles.
But your contention (if I’m understanding you) is that the capacity exists (if one were to “bank” on it) to threaten someones job (dont need one) or take someones home (which one?) or lure them into Honey trap (wont happen). Threaten their health and their life (well you got me there pretty scary). Seems kind of unfair though. To threaten someones life for…what was it exactly?
I wish you well and hope you can see your way clear to recognizing everyones capacity to change and evolve into an increasingly better version of themselves in the genuine service of national security.
Throughout history, humans have believed invisible entities (or ones others cannot see) were sexually molesting and tormenting them. For example, claims of sexual touching by demons, including intercourse, is a commonplace in the history of the Christian West. Then, in the 20th century as science fiction and the idea of space aliens took hold, many came forward to claim aliens were abducting them and probing their genitals.
By the 21st century, the ideas in the air are government surveillance and torture, as well as experiments on humans, And sure enough, “Targeted Individuals” claim a lot of messing with their naughty bits. Weinberger reports:
Demons, aliens, and now government agencies: all have been claimed by humans to be invisibly hurting or stimulating their sexual organs.
anoM (dufus) et al: Do you and “your ilk” get paid overtime or do you work on commission? What pathetic human beings you are.
I share the fruits of my education and reading for no compensation.
More fomr The Intercepts national security editor, sharon Weinberger when she wrote for The Washington Post:
Mona, the tactics of zersetzung were developed to not leave any evidence and devastated many lives before the public became aware of what the Stasi (secret police) were doing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
The tactics of Cointelpro were modeled after the Stasi’s Zersetzung and used against citizens of the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
NSA whistleblower William Binney said ” MINARETTE at NSA, COINTELPRO at FBI and CHAOS at CIA, is exactly what the three agencies are doing now under Bush and Obama. They’re doing exactly the same thing except orders of magnitude, more, more, more..”
http://www.bluerepublican.org/2015/07/20/william-binney-nsa-whistle-blower-stasi-culture-of-nsa-is-making-us-less-safe/
Is William Binney as you would say, a carnival barker?
Oh for fuck’s sake. I would never say –and have not said — that about Bill Binney. Binney does not claim to be a Targeted individual, or that Targeted Individuals are real. At all.
And none of your irrelevant links show otherwise.
What of the above links are irrelevant? and what about Binney’s comment that I quoted above are you confused about?
I’m not remotely confused. Bill Binney has never advocated a belief in the claims of “Targeted Individuals.” End of.
Mona, William Binney said ” MINARETTE at NSA, COINTELPRO at FBI and CHAOS at CIA, is exactly what the three agencies are doing now under Bush and Obama. They’re doing exactly the same thing except orders of magnitude, more, more, more..”
in an article with the headline “William Binney: Stasi Culture of NSA Is Making Us Less Safe”
http://www.bluerepublican.org/2015/07/20/william-binney-nsa-whistle-blower-stasi-culture-of-nsa-is-making-us-less-safe/
What do you think of his comment?
Binney is always persuasive, and I agree with him when he expands on that point:
Well, I mean, look what the IRS did with the Tea Party or the Occupy group, what they did with them with the FBI and so on. All these organizations have direct access to this data in NSA databases. The IRS has direct access through the SOD and the DEA to get into the database of the NSA, showing the entire social network of everybody in the country, in fact, everybody in the world. Now, they’re supposed to be looking at it to find tax fraud or tax evasion or, you know, money laundering, things like that…but that’s not what they’re doing. They’re doing many other things with it… And the FBI is also doing things with it like they have direct access too, and none of this is being monitored or overseen by the congress or the courts or anybody.
But what you won’t find in that discussion — or anywhere else — is Bill Binney endorsing the wild notions of “Targeted Individuals.”
These are Binney’s words and should be blockquoted:
These are Binney’s words too.
” MINARETTE at NSA, COINTELPRO at FBI and CHAOS at CIA, is exactly what the three agencies are doing now under Bush and Obama. They’re doing exactly the same thing except orders of magnitude, more, more, more..”
Yes, and as I said, he expanded on those words with:
Nada about remote mind-control and microwave touchless torture, meddling with TI’s naughty parts, implanting voices in their heads & etc.
Since there is no oversight, do you think it is possible that those agencies/ private contractors are conducting zersetzen like tactics on Americans?
It’s possible. Large scale is very improbable. And there’s no evidence for it.
As i said before, they do use gang stalking techniques but its hardly 5% of the times rest if all them putting thoughts into your head and people around you. The whole purpose is to make you start a fight with someone and murder them like Myron May case.The people he murdered were most likely inncoent and he thought they were real gang stalkers. This is the whole objective. Please understand that. Its a virtual reality game of NSA. For me i can’t even study because moment i want to they create unending confusion in mind. I was targeted at age of 15(they love torturing kids,i dare them Do it to Putin for one day only lol and see if you survive afterwards) when i scored over 90% in exams and for next 4 years i failed always.Technically, this technology can make your a genius or destroy your natural skills.Just put this idea in your head that they use remote nueral monitering and they want to feel mad and angry so just relax.If they annoy you too much, comment a lot. They hate comments.
I read that as both of you did and its terrifying enough for you both to be standing on common ground. One of the only unresolved questions regarding the US Military weapons systems many of have enumerated here is are they scalable and what for?
Binney said ” MINARETTE at NSA, COINTELPRO at FBI and CHAOS at CIA, is exactly what the three agencies are doing now under Bush and Obama. They’re doing exactly the same thing except orders of magnitude, more, more, more..”
Magdalene, Binney has repeatedly said that he is unwilling to reveal stuff that will land him in jail. Interestingly last year he addressed the TI convention, admittedly he only spoke about surveillance, but still I see it as a show of support done in a way that would not get him into trouble. One can’t blame people for being afraid to speak out, given the consequences. A whistle blower cannot even count on popular support, look at how many Americans say Snowden is a traitor, and ditto Chelsea Manning. So many people believe in a fundamentally just government, with only the odd bad egg. I’m not of that view.
One thing I do know is I’m trying to have an informed discussion with Mona and she keeps twisting and skewing the conversation.
Mona is resistant to any new information. I think she comes online with preconceived ideas and is simply looking for an argument. She probably does it on lots of sites on many/any topics. I have stoped engaging with her for that reason.
Oh, if you’ve really done that, your stated reason is most certainly not true.
About what? You agree the TIs’ claims aren’t real, so what are we supposed to be discussing?
You’re twisting it again. I’m trying to have a discussion about Cointelpro/Zersetzen. You keep bringing up energy weapons and aliens.
Well sure. Have you seen the documentary “1971”? I can’t recommend it highly enough. It’s about the FBI Burlgars who broke into a PA FBI office and revealed the evidence of COINTELPRO.
And as for East Germany’s Stasi tactics, as I already cited, Anna Funder’s “Stasiland” is an excellent book.
Not much more to say about it all than that, is there? What’s it got to do with TIs?
You shouldn’t. Glenn Greenwald went on the Glenn Beck show to discuss NSA surveillance. I assure you, Greenwald does not endorse the feverish notions of Glenn Beck.
Bill Binney has never endorsed claims of Targeted Individuals. Ever. And even if he did, the same burdens of evidence would be on him as they are on you. You haven’t even begun to meet that burden.
I don’t know if what so-called “Targeted Individuals” claim is true or not. But I am trying to figure this out. So, Mr. Binney has spoken at a “TI” convention about surveillance and you he has never endorsed the claims of “TI’s”. Has Binney ever publicly denounced the claims?
*you said
Uh-huh, I see. Well, “Targeted Individual” Pat B. just wrote this above:
And s/he also claims:
I look forward to your decision — when you’ve worked out whether that’s all true.
Sharon Weinberger, that national security editor for The Intercept, has written and spoken rather a lot about Targeted Individuals. She doesn’t believe their claims, altho she does believe many of them experience something internally real, just as those claiming to have been abducted by space aliens do.
She’s right in the sense than many or most are not clinically mentally ill, any more than most UFO enthusiasts are. (But she agrees some are, and do see my post below about Myron May.)
Recognize this: A Super intelligent AI denial/argument feature. It asserts itself infinitely. It will not stop. It cannot stop. It is a hyper-game arguer just like a computer chess game. It’s function is to win. Period. It does not consider or allow the other side, one bit. It can enter comments on a blog. It can talk on the telephone. It can talk through your family and friends. It’s always there to discredit the TI.
Recognize this: Sharon Weinberger has received hundreds, even thousands, of emails from TIs. Many read along these lines (this is actually one sent to her):
Well then.
Is thy name Mona?
Art though Quaker?
Verily I say unto thee, that yes, my name beist Mona.
“Mona”, I think she may be wondering if you know that your name literally means in Spanish “she-monkey”
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mono#Spanish
Noun: mono m ?(plural monos, feminine mona)
1. monkey
which is kind of the way you behave here ;-) and shills use such funky names
RCL
Hey Mona (and non anon),
That doesnt sound like JTRIG Style Targeting to me. What do we call that?
I think our nonsensical sparring seems to be yielding some dividends
Here is the link to the full source of Ms Weinberger’s statements
~
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/01/12/DI2007011201368.html
~
and some other of her comments about what she calls “Imaginary Weapons”
~
youtube.com/watch?v=w0xn2fwuIo4 (1/5)
~
youtube.com/watch?v=uAh4dsybK7Q (2/5)
~
youtube.com/watch?v=Hr3dSN55ew8 (3/5)
~
youtube.com/watch?v=t-NNGboGADU (4/5)
~
youtube.com/watch?v=hC7c11lEukQ (5/5)
~
I stopped reading what she had to say at this point:
Sharon Weinberger: I think many newspapers don’t write about this because there is a lack of evidence that the government is currently targeting innocent people with mind control weapons.
~
That “because” used as some sort of logical connective linking “innocent people” and “mind control” with what “newspapers may or may not write about” sounded to me more than half way off. Kind of like the ways you try to back your opinions about such topics. No wonder you “understand” her.
I disbelived thar she was TI staff, but, based on TI, you were right:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/staff/
Sharon Weinberger: sharon.weinberger@theintercept.com
National Security Editor
Sharon Weinberger is a national security reporter with a focus on science and technology issues.
I will pay attention to what she said some other time.
~
As described in:
Opening Skinner’s Box: Great Psychological Experiments of the Twentieth Century, Lauren Slater
ISBN-10: 0393326551
Paperback: 288 pages
as part of the Rosenhan experiment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
… “pseudopatients” (three women and five men, including Rosenhan himself) who briefly feigned auditory hallucinations in an attempt to gain admission to 12 different psychiatric hospitals
… claimed to be hearing voices of the same sex as the patient which were often unclear, but which seemed to pronounce the words “empty”, “hollow”, “thud” and nothing else.
Though presented with identical symptoms, 7 were diagnosed with schizophrenia at public hospitals, and one with manic-depressive psychosis, a more optimistic diagnosis with better clinical outcomes, at the private hospital. Their stays ranged from 7 to 52 days …
Despite constantly and openly taking extensive notes on the behavior of the staff and other patients, none of the pseudopatients were identified as impostors by the hospital staff, although many of the other psychiatric patients seemed to be able to correctly identify them as impostors. In the first three hospitalizations, 35 of the total of 118 patients expressed a suspicion that the pseudopatients were sane, with some suggesting that the patients were researchers or journalists investigating the hospital.
The non-existent impostor experiment:
For this experiment, Rosenhan used a well-known research and teaching hospital, whose staff had heard of the results of the initial study but claimed that similar errors could not be made at their institution. Rosenhan arranged with them that during a three-month period, one or more pseudopatients would attempt to gain admission and the staff would rate every incoming patient as to the likelihood they were an impostor. Out of 193 patients, 41 were considered to be impostors and a further 42 were considered suspect. In reality, Rosenhan had sent no pseudopatients and all patients suspected as impostors by the hospital staff were ordinary patients.
~
Now, they say: “You must be one to know one”. As those “crazy” inmates suspected while their “sane” doctors “scientifically” couldn’t, I have my whole life lived under persecution (and among not that sane people), so I have had the chance to learn about such issues first hand. Some of them have even accused me of being “Stasi” and even from those I tell apart those who are real TIs from those who aren’t.
I am a Physicist and tech monkey myself and after reading José Delgado’s and some other books and adamazing to the best of my knowledge those beliefs. I think I will be ready to (hopefully) publish an article here at TI or try a TED talk
RCL
“Good morning, Dr. McDaniel. Larry James from Division 19, Society of Military Psychologists. Gosh, I get it. Abuse, human rights, no torture – who’s going to disagree with that? But I’m worried about second-, third-order effects, unintended consequences. So, I need to know: Does international law supersede US law? Because if the answer to that is yes, this has dire negative consequences for all federal employees, particularly in the VA and the department of homeland defense.” -Amy Goodman/DN show on APA vote against torture.
NIH>SAMHSA>37Trauma Informed Care Centers>When Bad Things Happen (to Good People)
EO 12333 (PCLOB is investigating this fall) Same surveillance methods as SAMHSA?
Patriot Act
NDAA
Brain Project
See SAMHSA’s 2 documents on their plans: Search ‘Surveillance’
Leading Change: A Plan for Samhsa’s Roles and Actions 2011-2014
http://store.samhsa.gov/product/Leading-Change-A-Plan-for-SAMHSA-s-Roles-and-Actions-2011-2014/SMA11-4629
2015-2018 Agenda: Change 2.0
http://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content//PEP14-LEADCHANGE2/PEP14-LEADCHANGE2.pdf
Christian C Holmer is a Target JTRIG Style.
So many interesting real world military capabilities. Electromagnetic weapons, directed energy weapons, sonic riot disruption weapons, microwave heat weapons, the TAO ANT catalog, contemporary mind control (learned helplessness) experiments using psychotropic drugs, isolation on detainees etc and the APA sanctioned systematic experimentation on and scientific study of the torture of prisoners at Guantanamo and CIA black sites worldwide (first do no harm?) There’s not a whole lot of doubt left that the militarys progress in advancing many of these techniques and technologies is a resounding success. The only uncertainty here seems be if they’ve rolled out these existing capabilities domestically and to what scale large or small targeted or widespread.
A few years ago I thought anyone identifying themselves as a TI worried about direct energy or microwave weapons was a nut job. There is little doubt however thst such capabilities (as listed above and more) are today available for coventional military use.
Add to that the double super secret secrecy surrounding the manifold capabilities of Stingrays, DRTboxes and a slew of private sector target “monitoring” equipment the CIA approves for domestic use does make one wonder about how such capabilities might be (in some cases) or or are deployed against OCCUPY, BLACK LIVES MATTER, or ENVIRONMENTAL and POLITICAL activists who are now (thanks to DOJ complicity in torturing the english language in secret and not so secret OLC memos) essentially being treated as domestic terrorists or lone wolves.
When I was still running our San Francisco goverment transparency project pursuant to a SF Board of Supervisors resolution written by Matt Gonzalez (the green who ran with Nader) part of the gig was tracking every departmental meeting task force and commission. When George Gascon was appointed Chief of Police SFPD he began providing us almost every document, database, and file requested. I loved this guy. We collected every officisls detailed Calendars, call detail records, official email archives you name it, comprehensive lists of officers their badge numbers, training levels, special skills etc. Being able to roll out stellar examples of compliance with San Franciscos Sunshine Ordinance, and the California Publics Records Act from Law Enforcement itself upped our whole effort statewide. The reasoning wen that if the Cops, the DA and the City Attorneys office gave something to us there was virtually no way we’d fail to get similar disclosures from everyone else. I was, needless to say, a big fan of Chief Gascon both before and after he was appointed DA when Kamala Harris became CA AG.
As part of our duties every week we monitored police commission meetings where there was a steady stream of self identified TIs (the kind many of us have mocked here) complaining of voices in their head (sure their were), recognizable patterns of sleep disruption or waking up at specific times for no discernable reason (simple insomnia to be sure), waking up feeling extremely hot and sweating profusely (probably just left their space heater on a little to close to the bed right). I would roll my eyes while the Chief and Police Commission secretary listened and always had a kind word for those seemingly afflicted. Other details of their complaints were available to us as part of our ongoing collection of public records and testimony from the SF Police Commission and a number of other Law Enforcement related oversight bodies and adjunct services. Compassion was the best I could offer in responding at the time. Now after all my research into myriad academic studies many associated with IARPA DARPA or other DOD funded projects (and direct input from current and former member of the law enforcement and intelligence communities) I’m no longer so sure the private or public sector domestic deployments of these or similar technologies against protesters have not been deployed against the several or the one.
“available to us” as in “… and anyone else”?
Do you know if specifically those complaints were documented and could be accessed though FOIA requests?
RCL
The City Attorneys Supervisor of Records never would have let us release such personally identifiable records unredacted and or even redacted without the appropriate required redaction notations.
I asked because I am interested in proving TIs are not just deranged and delusional folks. I know some people have access to that kind of data. Of course, I don’t want to identify them personally I am interested in correlations and stratifications of their experiences possibly with time stamps of the incidents
Is this possible in any way you know?
RCL
Short answer? No. We were told to purge everything in August of 2013.
If you havent really done anything wrong all they can do is try to frame you. We have relatives in the IC stateside both goverment and private sector who suggested the best protection for us the wholesale removal of attack surf ace area.
Our online presence as it were (or was).
Pre-Snowden we just assumed we’d pissed off Nancy Pelosi Gavin Newsom
and their friends and were being blacklisted and targeted for a rolling JTRIG Style campaign. Post-Snowden (during all those middle east embassy closures) our relatives in the IC TOLD me I should purge our web presence to avoid being hijacked, misappropriated, MITMd. It took me two days to accept that, Then we did six or seven military grade drive wipes on our remaining servers and devices on an externally secured call with realtime military personnel.
Then they (my friendly in house “they”) and I wiped the phones we’d been using landlines and cells right down to the comcast and att call detail records. Kind funny too since that makes it pretty clear some of “them or they” were unaware of Equation Groups seeming omnipresence and ubiquitousness In the sense of every device being owned from the malware in the firmware root and all.
… and all of this was happening as the Chinese were hacking OPM’s networks? ;-)
RCL
Jacob Appelbaum is a Target JTRIG Style.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kIQAut2bGhs
…Jacob did not document being spied on in his bedroom by men using night vision goggles. Did any of you? You’d have to have the right equipment in the right place at the right time all the time. Most Pre-Snowden Docs conjecture by Julian Assange Jacob Appelbaum Jamal Jaffer or Cindy Cohn regarding the true extent of NSA surveillance (with “evidence in hand” mind you was) was also dismissed as unsubstantiated conjecture from those with no standing.
As it turns out the were all wrong. Its far far worse than they’d imagined each and every one of them.
anoM (dufus) et al: You and “your ilk” cannot kill the TRUTH :-)
More to the point, you and your ilk cannot fabricate facts out of your asses. No more than the alien-abductees have been able to.
Christian C Holmer: Thousands of people know that I have been targeted as a T.I. (Targeted Individual) for the last 13 1/2 years. Moreover, that I have been resident right here in the U.S., and unable to travel outside of the country. I do not possess a valid passport for one reason. How so many people know about my – shall I call it – “status” is a whole other matter; however. Hmm.
“Don’t wait … before you go to the press and to Congress to tell the truth with documents that reveal lies or crimes or internal projections of costs and dangers. Don’t wait 40 years for it to be declassified, or seven years as I did for you or someone else to leak it.” -Daniel Ellsberg
“Why the Pentagon Papers matter now”
by Daniel Ellsberg
“While we go on waging unwinnable wars on false premises, the Pentagon papers tell us we must not wait 40 years for the truth”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jun/13/pentagon-papers-daniel-ellsberg
“Don’t make my mistake. Don’t do what I did. Don’t wait until a new war has started in Iran, until more bombs have fallen in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, Libya, Iraq or Yemen. Don’t wait until thousands more have died, before you go to the press and to Congress to tell the truth with documents that reveal lies or crimes or internal projections of costs and dangers. Don’t wait 40 years for it to be declassified, or seven years as I did for you or someone else to leak it.”
(“Daniel Ellsberg bitterly regrets that he did not release sooner contemporaneous evidence in his possession that contradicted the official version of the 1964 Tonkin Gulf incident…”)
Kissinger, about Ellsberg: “…the most dangerous man in America who must be stopped at all costs.”
Magdalene:
Yes, Targeted Individuals also like to toss out he “open-minded” notion and argue that I lack this trait.
Truly smart and productive people, however, balance great open-mindedness with exceptionally high levels of conscientiousness, leading to the right outcome. Michael Shermer again:
Just so. Sagan required evidence. And the more extraordinary the claim, the more he required it. He was a most conscientious man.
So far, I’ve noted levels of conscientiousness from Targeted Individuals on par with that found in carnival barkers.
I copied my reply to you below and posted it again here.
I’d rather not talk about “Targeted Individuals” or “gang stalking” or aliens and laser beams which you keep bringing into the equation. For all I know those are disinformation terms. I’d rather talk about Zersetzung and Cointelpro.
Weren’t these tactics developed to not leave any evidence?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
There are myriad individuals commenting here who claim to be, or to know of, Targeted Individuals. That is who and what *I* am discussing.
If you don’t claim TIs exist then we have nothing to discuss. And I’m glad you do not believe in TIs.
You keep twisting and dodging my question.
Weren’t these tactics developed to not leave any evidence?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
We are not discussing East Germany (when it existed). The discussion is Targeted Individuals complaining of microwave and radio-frequency torture, gangstalking, planting voices in heads, and plots among friends and family with the govt to destroy them. And you don’t believe in any of that so we are on the same page.
Again, you keep using the term gang stalking. I’m talking about Zersetzung/Cointelpro documented activities. Do you think it is possible these same tactics could be occurring now in this surveillance state?
Interestingly though you said “plots among friends and family with the govt to destroy them” didn’t the Stasi do something similar? Wasn’t that part of zersetzung? The recruitment of friends and family through slander or other means?
Magdalene,
Yes. Zersetzung tactics were developed to not leave any evidence by criminals inside the east german government and military. It was considered an improvement over Stalin style purges.
For a detailed look at East Germany’s defunct Stasi, read Anna Funder’s “Stasiland: Oh Wasn’t it so Terrible – True Stories from Behind the Berlin Wall.” Funder has evidence.
Yes, we know about Zersetzung now, but the tactics were developed to not leave any evidence. How can I say for certain they are not happening again,, given the scope of the surveillance state which the Stasi would have loved to have had?
Which was not possible and still isn’t.
But you don’t believe in Targeted Individuals, so we have nothing to disagree about.
The tactics of Zersetzen devastated peoples lives before we learned about them. Do you honestly think Cointelpro and Zersetzen are household terms in America?
What I “honestly” wonder is why on Earth you pose that question. You don’t believe TI claims. What makes what I think about what is a household term in the U.S. relevant to anything?
When i asked some very credible guy(an angel) , his reply was ” its not all that gang stalking as you think. Basically they are using mind control only 5% of the times they use limited people who work with them rest is all of them putting thoughts into your head and their head. No the university(some 3 rd world country where i live in exile) in which you studied don’t have over 100 gang stalker most likely they only have few monarch slave girls which they were using to entrap you to become monarch slave so you stop exposing us government is currently doing MKULTRA monarch mind control torture expierments on US citizens children but there is no evidence to arrest them.Yeah you got death threats that one girl that gave those threats while calling it jokes is definately real monarch slave.They use voice to skull and very advanced technology so no one can arrest them.For example, they will put in your head to buy food from cafe in your university as you walk in more than 10 guys are all drinking coca cola(trigger in my case- they love red colour like vampires like blood-blood thirsty psychos) but in reality they put thoughts in their heads to buy coco cola and they all did that just like they tricked you to going to cafe making you think you want to eat something. This is their game. Yes some do work with them. Rest your claim you get harassed by certain model cars on roads, they probably use 1 or 2 cars with real people to bother you(extreme dangerous drivering to scare you) once in a week rest they mind control all particular car model drivers to surround you on road and apply brakes(to remind you its them but those drivers did it when they used RNM to create jerk reaction on their legs) to make you think whole world is owned by them, which is a lie. In past, yes they used real people but now They don’t at all. They only use 5% of work force for gang stalking now which is why its so widespread now thanks to super computers linked with your minds using EMF, rest is mind games using a technology known as remote Nueral monitering. The tactics is now very changed.That is how they control elections, manipulate thoughts and we can’t do anything.”
The above knowledge is so important that they literally have 1000’s of trolls online to make you think they own everyone which is a lie but most are also genuine people who have no idea RNM has arrived like even Intercept won;t believe it (snowden didn’t get all the correct documents i guess or they hide this program very well). If you believe in above sentences i said, within days all your anxiety will go away and you will see them as i see them, manipulating the destiny and enviroment. They are child abusers and sick people who need to be locked up in mental wards.That angel(guy) also told me no one really works for money its just they convince them they are more powerful than God and they always say to their workforce ” no prayers or God can save you from us if you rebel against us. We will literally torment you(electronic RNM torture) but never let you die but you will be forced to work with us again and be our slaves”.Reminds me of a Christian belief, Anti-christ will claim he is more powerful than God and no prayers can save anyone so everyone should bow to them so he can give them food.
Trust me, i got this information from an angel :).Yeah i am psychic with super duper powers(a joke NSA understands very well).Excuse my english grammer, English is not my first language.NSA call it a game, they laugh off like crazy everyday when you think its real people but its what i call virtual reality.All the best.
tell them i will believe the person is real gang stalker only if he carried a sign “I am from NSA and i am here to gang stalk you”.Peace.
Thank you for your contribution. It is just the sort of insight that many, including Magdalene, could and should benefit from.
sounds legit
The DDR’s Stasi could only dream of the erhmm, moral and financial support the US’ Stasi receives from the Great American People. The DDR suffered an acute shortage of Monas.
On the topic of psychology, Michael Shermer’s book, “Why People Believe Weird Things” is instructive. This excerpt was written in the context of the thousands of people who believe — insist, actually — they’ve been abducted by space aliens, but the passage applies as well to Targeted Individuals and their claims:
and there you go again with your self-serving emphasis. People can read for themselves, don’t you notice?
The part which (IMO) is not substantiate is: “but the passage applies as well …”
What makes you think so, darling?
To begin with, I don’t think you are able to think objectively or with any kind of empathy towards people whose ideas and inner feelings you are making assumptions about.
RCL
Translation: “I really hate it when you employ a common convention to call attention to strong points that undermine my hallucinations.”
It’s banal to point out that cell phone connections are invisible, and that they are connected to satellites. (Oh no! Voodoo alert!) How do they work? How does wireless work? Can you tell in a sentence or less? Are you a nut job because you believe in cell phones?
Here is some speculation. Just some thoughts about what many in the communities of biogenetics and biotechnology, and A.I. (Nick Bostrom) are warning that we need discussion about as science and technology zoom past the halls of law at lightening speed. (Making an emotional, moral and ethical A.I is difficult. Hard enough to find in human beings!)
We now have computers that mimic the neural networks of the brain. (UCLA, etc) Why not make them wireless? Hooked to phones? Copy neural network sequences as people are talking on phones? Make files of emotional outbursts. Copy behavior sequences? Map the human brain – Obama’s Brain Project. Here’s some discussion on Behavior Inducing Technologies:
http://www.academia.edu/2666452/Human_Behavior_Understanding_for_Inducing_Behavioral_Change_Social_and_Theoretical_Aspects
The advancements in brain understanding – neural network translation into real meaningful information is here. The Bioethics committee used it for an Ethics discussion last year – with a ticker tape on the website reading the thoughts of those presenting. Some of their thoughts were never spoken – you could watch it real time as the guests edited themselves. It was amazing.
The efforts it would take to come up with all the patents on this technology and all the people working in their separate little tiny areas of concentration – would be Herculean. We’re talking here about the institutionalizing and managing of the configuration of a super intelligent AI to be used to control human beings. (Bluffdale?)
One of the choice and desired abilities of this technology would be to give the victim hallucinations. CIA’s MK Ultra worked on this objective. At the time it became public, they were just using drugs. But what if the research went on in secret? And moved to understanding that electrical circuits of the brain are where ‘all the action is’? Hearing voices would also be a choice function of mind control. No one but the victim would know – or BELIEVE it was happening. How could they?
What if you could copy a neural network sequence file and run it on another brain – through the phone – or just wirelessly? (google ‘brain implants’) Just like recording someone’s voice. The possibilities are infinite. Copy sequences of people while they are being tortured and run them on unsuspecting individuals. Well now, welcome to the world of the TI.
Don’t you think certain people would want this ability – to remotely control others without their knowledge of who was doing it? How much would you pay for it if you could buy it, with certainty that you would never be found out? What if you could pay to have someone tortured? Would you do it?
And if all that IS possible, how are human beings ever going to expose this? What if the AI makes all people coming in contact with the victim deny the victim’s experience? What if it erases the memories of the trauma? What if it has a ‘super argumentative’ feature – where the victim, trying to tell his story, can never win – and will ALWAYS be character assassinated and told they are mentally ill?
What if the AI calls him up on the phone pretending to be his mother (voice sampling), and runs an anger stimulus file, copies the neural network response, and runs it in the future on that individual in a social setting where police are called and that person is taken away to a mental institution, locked up, restrained and medicated – maybe even murdered? Disposed of and out of mind.
Check out chapter 4 of Richard L Rubenstein’s “The Cunning of Humanity: the Holocaust and the Future of America” – the Health Professions and Corporate Enterprise:
“In a society of total domination, there is absolutely no moral limit to the uses normal, perverse or obscene to which the masters can put the human beings at their disposal…their utilization as human guinea pigs in the Nazi medical experiments.”
This is what psychology has become today in America. And why we need to listen to the TI’s and what they are saying. And why we need to seriously THINK about what they are saying, before running the character assassination program on them, effectively silencing something we all cannot possibly imagine as real or true – because it is simply so horrific.
And what makes you think this couldn’t be used on anyone, anywhere, anytime? As in No Where to Hide?
It’s time for a Truth Commission for TI’s. Long overdue.
Absolutely — and it should be held at Area 51 with all their alien-abductee brothers and sisters.
LEADERSHIP 8/08/2015 @ 12:49PM 371 views
The APA Kills Off The ‘Gunslinger Model’ Of Psychology In Favor Of Human Rights
Todd Essig | Contributor
[Excerpt]
The approved resolution included a letter to be sent to “appropriate officers of the U.S. government, including the President, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, CIA Director, and Congress” stating in part:
“It is a violation of APA policy for psychologists to conduct, supervise, be in the presence of, or otherwise assist any individual national security interrogation, nor may a psychologist advise on conditions of confinement insofar as those might facilitate such an interrogation. Furthermore, based on current reports of the UN Committee Against Torture and the UN Special Rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, it is also a violation of APA policy for psychologists to work at the Guantánamo Bay detention facility, “black sites,” vessels in international waters, or sites where detainees are interrogated under foreign jurisdiction ‘unless they are working directly for the persons being detained or for an independent third party working to protect human rights’ or providing treatment to military personnel.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2015/08/08/the-apa-kills-off-the-gunslinger-model-of-psychology-in-favor-of-human-rights/
Something that I think has escaped us is: if she is a well-minded scientist and if she doesn’t have anything to hide …, why is she parapeting her @ss behind “lawyers”
Or it might be the way psychologists and psychiatrists interpret the scientific method and hey, their “interpretations” are secret
RCL
The African saying goes: “There must be all kinds of wood in a jungle” and girlfriend tells me that, as preposterously as they may at times sound, not everyone speaking and siding with USG politicians’ abusive b#llsh!t are free-willing or paid shills; that regardless of their intelligence or moral bearing and compass, there are many people (most people in the U.S.) who are just talking off “their beliefs”.
If you are reading these comments from overseas and/or don’t know gringos well. You could use “Mona” as a good approximation, general prototype of how most gringos think, are. If your sense of sanity makes it impossible for you to believe what I am telling you, I would recommend:
// __ Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Government Surveillance (HBO)
~
youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M
~
In that sense “Mona” (whatever they/she/he/it is) is serving its purpose well.
“Mona” was boasting not long ago with her characteristic self righteous and vertically visceral offensive style to know all about Bill Binney
and I took the time to help her correct her own understanding of reality (“hallucinating” is the word she may have used as part of a number of other offensive terms and spins) Why would someone spend so much time just being offensive to other people?
Someone already pointed out “Mona”‘s mind scope by pointing out “Mona” say that the only source of real and valid information are Snowden’s revelations, provided “Mona” have access to them and have analyzed them all. (“Mona” like to also boast about having some sort of blood pact with Glenn)
Now (and I think that is new), “Mona” has even used U.S. news outlets (the Orlando Sentinel) to validate her points!!! which may have made some of us laugh in disbelief. I was even going to post some b#llsh!t from “Granma” (Castro’s newspaper) here, but I would rather leave sarcasm for il Duce ;-) I don’t think I will ever be that good at it.
I will just let you find your piece truth for yourself by posting leads to two sides of it:
// __ Gunman at Florida State Spoke of Being Watched
~
nytimes.com/2014/11/21/us/florida-state-university-shooting.html
~
// __ “My Experience as a Targeted Individual”, Part 1
~
youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ZQurVAV3M
~
BTW, James Tracy:
~
youtube.com/user/Voltaire824
~
amazon.com/James-D.-Tracy/e/B001IYZ8P4/
~
is someone I personally know and I very much doubt he would be posting nonsense out there for the sake of it.
Satyagraha,
RCL
You are a deluded fool. Among many wrong things in that hysterical screed of yours is this:
Never. Never said that, and you can’t quote me otherwise, because it never happened.
Myron May shot 3 people and was himself shot dead by responding police. That poor man believed all this wacky crap about microwave torture and others planting voices in his head & etc, and he went literally insane. So he tried to kill, and was himself killed.
The confabulations you people thrive on are actually dangerous for some people. You should own that and be ashamed.
OK, team “Mona”, at the very least your mastery of the English language is beyond 3rd grade, either:
a) you should use different accounts in order not to get confused and please, try to not crowd the authoring of messages (was the same “Mona” writing that message the same one who emphasized the “Nothing in Snowden’s archives …” part?), or
b) you should reread all your messages each time you are gonna post in order not to get confused yourself, so you make a better impression as an single, articulate and sound person (I think §a is much better, in case you don’t notice it), or
c) theintercept is making up cr@p and impersonating ghost messages here to create confusion and anger people (which I doubt even though at times I have noticed censorship here (which I don’t agree with in anyway)), or
d) if you have some leader or are trying to impersonate your collective effort as if it were coming from one person, I wonder if you notice that even people who agree with you to whichever extent find your viscerally offensive crazy @ss style over the top of their decency (pretending to be a little nicer and objective may persuade more people), or
e) if you actually are one person, then you make the impression of being a case of split personality disorder (they call it?) or being in need of some good talk with a true friend (not just a yes (wo)man)
You said you Bill Binney hadn’t said something I was tired of listening him repeat that. You are now saying targeted individuals (from which I am one) are just a bunch of deranged fellows based on “Snowden archives” (Aug. 9 2015, 10:34 a.m.), then right in this same forum within on hour you are saying you didn’t (Aug. 9 2015, 11:42 a.m.) …
f) or probably you just need a vacation, some fresh air; darling
RCL
Oh FFS you lying sac of shite, my entire quote was: “Nothing in Snowden’s archives supports this crap, and Kiriakou’s torture leaks don’t either.”
So, I did not write that anyone, including Snowden, is “the only source of real and valid” information. You made that up. And, what I did say was about both Snowden AND John Kiriakou.
In addition to believing preposterous, unsupported things, you have reading comprehension problems.
Now, why is it that neither Snowden, Kiriakou, or anyone else, has provided one scintilla of documentation about all these Targeted Individual claims, hmmm?
OK, once again I am wrong and you are right (with your usual coda of offensive language …).
What I haven’t heard yet is what makes you so sure about “what you know”?
Something I find very irrational of you is that you have the APA and that Dhami @ssh0l3 saying themselves what they are doing and then when the people on the other end talk about it you say “they are crazy”
What makes you outrightly disregard people claiming to be persecuted by USG to the point of being viscerally offensive to them the way you are?
RCL
It’s too bad telling the truth as best you can know it, instead of engaging in knowing, premeditated deceit of tbe public, is neither considered ethical, moral or effective.
Ethics are not so complicated as everyone imagines.
In 2005, there were lucrative CIA contracts available to devise and oversee effective torture programs. The American Psychological Association therefore dutifully set up a Psychological Ethics and National Security (PENS) committee which recommended (pdf file) allowance for psychologists to violate their professional ethics when “psychologists’ ethical responsibilities conflict with law, regulations, or other governing legal authority”. The apa dutifully incorporated the enshrinement of obeying orders as the governing principle into their code of ethics.
Later, the number and value of such contracts diminished, and the American Psychological Association in 2013 decided to remove this from their code of ethics.
So ethics are basically a function of the commercial opportunities available, a principle which the apa obviously recognizes. So I’m not sure why none of the psychologists interviewed for this article referred to that as their governing principle. Perhaps they were trying to obfuscate – a reason so many people view ethics as excessively complicated.
The e-mail exchanges of the distinguished 2005 PENS committee members are interesting (pdf file). I’ll end with the following practical tip from one committee member:
Perhaps the health care providers should reflect on whether they wish for their professional credibility to continue be used as cover for the ‘operational consultants’, or whether they should have their own association. After all, they were not the ones benefitting from the commercial opportunities available to the operational consultants.
as funny as true
RCL
Right on, Benito.
Dhami in response to King writes:
“The integrity of our psychological science is threatened by the great potential for its misinterpretation and misapplication in military social influence campaigns,” “The harm that may be caused by remaining detached from such campaigns, perhaps because of the element of deception and invasion of privacy involved, may far outweigh the benefits of striving for the welfare and rights of the campaign targets.”
So clearly there are targeted individuals or are we to believe that Dhami is mistaken and that a social scientist is employed for what?
If Dhami has argued that military use of psychology is inevitable, and therefore civilian psychologists have a responsibility to monitor its application in order to prevent misuse (in the manner in which she clearly believes she has) then she is ignoring the capacity of any involved/consulting monitor to report on the very misuse that she is seeking to prevent, without risking imprisonment. The present legal structure makes such “monitoring”, whatever that means to her, impossible. She and every other monitor is bound by the legal framework which is often itself a secret.
Monitor and report-you risk your freedom.
Dhami believes that if you don’t monitor, then you risk “misinterpretation and misapplication in military social influence campaigns,” and “the benefits of striving for the welfare and rights of the campaign targets……..” Someone/anyone sight even one instance where such monitoring has provided this benifit.
Mona,
“Yet typically in the national security field (and to a striking degree even in corporate and private associations without a formal apparatus of secrecy) even the “weakest links” do not break. No one tells.” -Daniel Ellsberg
The article and larger quote:
http://www.ellsberg.net/archive/secrecy-national-security-whistleblowing
“Since wrong-doing virtually always requires both secrecy and lies, and further secrets and lies to protect the secrets and lies, the wrongful operation-especially in a regime that approaches democracy–is commonly highly vulnerable to a breach of secrecy by any one of the many who share the secret. Yet typically in the national security field (and to a striking degree even in corporate and private associations without a formal apparatus of secrecy) even the “weakest links” do not break. No one tells.”
-Daniel Ellsberg
Stasi Culture of NSA Is Making Us Less Safe
” MINARETTE at NSA, COINTELPRO at FBI and CHAOS at CIA, is exactly what the three agencies are doing now under Bush and Obama. They’re doing exactly the same thing except orders of magnitude, more, more, more..” -William Binney
http://www.bluerepublican.org/2015/07/20/william-binney-nsa-whistle-blower-stasi-culture-of-nsa-is-making-us-less-safe/
Magdalene: note, BILL: … the “Five Eyes,” and the other 8 countries that are participating with the NSA …
William Binney: Stasi Culture of NSA Is Making Us Less Safe
July 20, 2015 By robin
[Excerpt]
BILL: And another way to look at it is: if you require your analysts to look at everybody in the planet, which is about 4 billion people using electronic devices. Then, assume if you had all these countries —the “Five Eyes,” and the other 8 countries that are participating with the NSA in this kind of data (acquisition and analysis) – then perhaps you could assemble 20,000 analysts among all of them. Once you have that, then you have to divide the 20,000 into 4 billion that means each analyst, if you could uniquely divide it up, would have to monitor 200,000 people. That’s like a, you know, fairly good-sized city.
ROBIN: Yes.
BILL: So it’s kind of hard to imagine how any analyst could possibly do that, so by taking this approach instead of using a disciplined, professional attack, they have made their analysts totally dysfunctional and they can’t succeed. Case in point: the shooting in Texas. Two days before those two gunmen tried to get in to kill people and that cartoon contest down in Texas, a member of Anonymous tipped off the local police that this attack was going to happen two days in advance of it. Now that’s what our intelligence community is supposed to do, but our intelligence community said absolutely nothing. Why? Because they’re looking at massive amounts of people. They don’t have the focused look that Anonymous did.
http://www.bluerepublican.org/2015/07/20/william-binney-nsa-whistle-blower-stasi-culture-of-nsa-is-making-us-less-safe/
ROBIN KOERNER & WILLIAM “BILL” BINNEY (cont.)
[BREAK]
ROBIN: In the final segment, I just want to ask you, Bill – and thanks again for being here with me on Blue Republican Radio — is it worse in America than everywhere else or is everywhere else catching up? Is this an American anti-civil liberties disease or is it a global one?
BILL: Well, it started all here within the US and it focused on US citizens. Then it spread around the world for the US to do it, but also at the same time the Five Eyes group (Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, and the US) went together on this and then other countries were joining it. So that you see that they’re all adopting the same procedures of bulk acquisition of data and information and using it to share…and they’re sharing it back and forth. Just recently the Bundesamt found out that the B&D, the equivalent of the NSA and CIA over in Germany, was also sharing data with NSA, and collecting data on their own citizens. So it’s really a worldwide process that started here but is infecting entire governments, democracies around the world as well. And so it’s really destroying the entire fabric of democracy everywhere on the planet. I mean, Ronald Reagan used to say that “we’re a country with a government,” well, now we’re a government with a country and we’re making everybody else that way too.
ROBIN: My god. That seems to be such a depressing note to end on. I would just say… I mentioned at the beginning of this show that we’ve just marked the 800th anniversary of the Magna Carta…
http://www.bluerepublican.org/2015/07/20/william-binney-nsa-whistle-blower-stasi-culture-of-nsa-is-making-us-less-safe/
And yet, Ellsberg and Russo did it. And yet, Snowden did it. And yet, John Kiriakou did it (about actual torture).
What nobody has done is leak documentation or even claims of touchless torture, gangstalking, radio waves or microwave anything bouncing off the ionosphere and back into peoples’ brains. Or about planting voices in “victims” heads, driving them to suicide with the cooperation of their family, evil psychiatrists & blah blah blah. Nothing in Snowden’s archives supports this crap, and Kiriakou’s torture leaks don’t either.
Because it’s all unreal, chimerical, group hallucinations.
And yet, Ellsberg and Russo did it. And yet, Snowden did it. And yet, John Kiriakou did it
From what I understand about whistleblowers in the intelligence community, it takes an exceptional person. A person with great courage and morals who is also willing to risk everything.
Yes, and these exceptional individuals exist and always have. But not a one has reported about the travails claimed by “Targeted Individuals.”
“When you talked to people outside the [anti-Vietnam War] movement about what the FBI was doing, nobody wanted
to believe it.” – Keith Forsyth, one of the activists who helped to expose the original version of COINTELPRO, via the Media, PA break-in
It took 17 years for COINTELPRO to be exposed. And even though it was officially halted, there are retired agents who privately admit that only the name was changed and the files are no longer accessible via FOIA.
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/08/22220561-nbc-reporter-recounts-breaking-fbi-spying-story?lite
“As Stern recalled it, when his initial inquiries about COINTELPRO were rebuffed, he refused to take no for an answer and sought an explanation over lunch with L. Patrick Gray, who had become acting director of the FBI after Hoover died in 1972. He got back a terse letter in Sept. 1972. “This matter involved a highly sensitive operation,” it read. “It has now been discontinued” and any further disclosures “would definitely be harmful to the Bureau’s operations and to the national security.”
“So Stern filed a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act. And with the help of a sympathetic judge, the late Barrington Parker, he finally got the first documents describing what COINTELPRO was, and broke the story on NBC’s “Nightly News” on Dec. 6, 1973. “Secret FBI memos made public today show the late J. Edgar Hoover ordered a nationwide campaign to disrupt the activities of the New Left,” said John Chancellor that night introducing Stern’s report. “He ordered his agents not only to expose New Left groups, but to take action against them to neutralize them.”
“Those documents opened the floodgates to hundreds more over the years as Congressional investigations followed. They showed that Hoover had started COINTELPRO in 1956…”
First of all psychology is not going to work for the so-called “Terrorists “.
The type of techniques that is described in the article are techniques for used car salesman.
The so-called terrorists that they’re picking up on social media are basically the retarded people ,mentally ill people and people who are limited. And they’re having to frame these people to even get them to appear guilty.
Yes, it’s Wikipedia, but you might want to spend a little time on the “Unethical human experimentation in the United States” page, Mona. Maybe you’ll learn something:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/new-docs-raise-questions-about-cia-spying-here-home
anonymous: Yup. Relevant, current and ongoing. Thank you! ;-)
New Docs Raise Questions About CIA Spying Here at Home
By Ashley Gorski, Nadine Strossen Fellow, National Security Project, ACLU
JUNE 15, 2015 | 10:45 AM
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/new-docs-raise-questions-about-cia-spying-here-home
I’m already reasonably well read on that topic, but thanks anyway. And now, here’s something for you to learn from on the subject of confabulation:
I’d like to remind you that the article we are commenting under is about psychologists helping intelligence agencies design tactics to discredit people.
I’d like to remind you that several Intercept authors who write about psychology and psychologists employed by the government have deleted the comments and accounts of “Targeted Individuals” — because you are a swarm of confabulating, deluded cranks.
Why am I a crank? And when have I stated I was a TI?
Because I think ‘gang stalking’ is a misnomer for tactics that sound EXACTLY like Cointelpro and Zersetzung?
So, you’re what? A “supporter” of Targeted Individuals? You believe their reports of “gangstalking are real?
What are those claims exactly, and what is the evidence for them?
Weren’t these tactics developed to not leave any evidence?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
Again: What are the claims of “Targeted Individuals” exactly, and what is the evidence for them?
I’d rather not talk about “Targeted Individuals” or “gang stalking” or aliens and laser beams which you keep bringing into the equation. For all I know those are disinformation terms. I’d rather talk about Zersetzung and Cointelpro.
So, you’re what? A “supporter”
I’m just someone who is open minded and empathetic. To put it another way, I’m someone the ‘Stasi’ would never be able to recruit.
“…reasonably well read…, but thanks anyway.”
Ditto, with regard to the “confabulation” claptrap, in the context of my comments.
(Unfortunately, you’re not as smart and savvy as you apparently believe yourself to be, Mona. And it’s clear that you’re also lacking in imagination and insight, among other things, such as compassion and empathy. In other words: You just don’t know as much as you think you do, in some areas, and you’re nasty, to boot.)
“‘propaganda for democracy’ is simply a contradiction in terms, because pervasive propaganda inevitably shapes totalitarian, rather than democratic, psychological process.”” We’ve walked a very long way from Democracy this century
Mona, have you ever heard about Zersetzung?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
Similar tactics were used in Cointelpro, are you familiar with the term?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
How about MKUltra, Mona?
And other secret projects in which the U.S. government has engaged:
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/5/5/plutonium_files_how_the_u_s
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/19/us/radiation-tests-used-some-healthy-people.html
Since you bring up the subject of MKUltra, here is a great article. The woman may be unremarkable as Mona describes, but I think it’s pretty remarkable that she had the courage to write about it
http://shadowproof.com/2015/04/16/fifty-years-of-secrecy-investigating-cia-mind-control-experiments-in-vermont/
If you’ve ever read firedoglake, they are now http://shadowproof.com/
She’s certainly savy. She’s filing FOIA requests and using actual names of real people who are demonstrated to have done actual bad things.
Who is filing FOIA requests about contemporary touchless torture, gangstalking, radio waves or microwave anything bouncing off the ionosphere and back into peoples’ brains. Or about planting voices in “victims” heads, driving them to suicide with the cooperation of their family, evil psychiatrists & etc? Do we have the name of even one person involved in implementing, say, the planting voices program?
Evidence, where is the evidence and what is being done to obtain any?
[sigh] I’ve read Anna Funder’s “Stasiland: Stories from Behind the Berlin Wall,” and read so much about COINTELPRO I’m nearly an expert.
And I remain virtually certain that the nightmare confabulations of “Targeted Prersons” are just that. They are not real. There are no leakers or other non-anecdotal evidence that any of it is real.
I have no idea if commenters here claiming experimentation are real, but if it is happening I would assume if anyone filed a FOIA they would get the GLOMAR response. I also believe what has been exposed to the public about topics such as Project Paperclip, MKUltra and even the current torture controversy is most likely just the tip of the iceberg, which is why they will not release the full reports (FOIA- GLOMAR response). So taking that into consideration, I am at least open minded and more importantly, empathic when I hear such claims.
What is your understanding of what “Targeted Individuals” claim, including those commenting here?
Considering the scope of the surveillance structure, infraguard, fusion centers, “Patriot” Act, Homeland Security encouraging citizens to become informants, I think it’s entirely possible for Cointelpro/ Zersetzung like activities to also be happening. If you are well informed about the topic as you claim, how is that even out of the realm of possibility to you?
We must establish precisely what it is we are discussing, so I ask yet again: What is your understanding of what “Targeted Individuals” claim, including those commenting here?
You can look up Dr Robert Duncan, for starters… There are more leakers, plus people like Binney who has given support to the TI community by addressing their conference last year, but you are not genuinely trying to get info, and, for whatever reason that may be motivating you, you will shoot down any leakers you are presented with anyway, or lie and say you have read them and what they say does not constitute proof in your eyes.
Lets get something straight: I don’t care what you think , and it pains me to see so many TIs upset by a person so undeserving of respect.This is the last time I respond to anything you write. I encourage TIs on this page to do the same.
Are we supposed to be surprised that there are still fascists in the psychological field? There were excellent ones working for the Third Reich and one would expect there to still be ones slavering at the feet of the fascists leaders today.
The comment that she has done less damage than Karl Rove was amusing. Is crazy Karl now a standard? Why not use the chief nut case of the last administration, Dick “Strangelove” Cheney?
Such idiots who have wasted greater part of their time playing inside empty halls of a vacuumed emptiness in ideological nowhere , playing moral and intellectual mining – games , running along side parallel insane institutions -while calling it an educational agenda system …. bonafide useless morons falsely labeling anything as supplemental enrichment that if spelled correctly would be written and named as : Virtual Monkey Feed Programming …. more illusions for monster control management nonsense in artificial deception for the planet’s inhabitants
“The government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist”
The Intercept / July 13,2014
Unlimited budget to Target anyone
with no oversight.
Thank you, Edward Snowden!!!
For shining the light on government corruption.
What is the goal here… to make JTRIG personnel happy, well-adjusted spooks?
*analyze this … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEE7xzwogMc
anoM: Ref. Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online | 21 Wire
And absolutely nada about touchless torture, gangstalking, radio waves or mircrowave anything bouncing off the ionosphere and back into peoples’ brains. Or about planting voices in “victims” heads, driving them to suicide with the cooperation of their family, evil physchiatrists & all that other deranged horseshit you freaks spew.
None of that is real, which is why there is not squat from Snowden or any other reputable source about any of it; it is a group hallucination like the oddballs who claim to have been abducted by aliens.
Mona, there have been a number of whistle blowers from places like CIA and NSA, at least one who also blew the whistle on the same surveillance that Snowden provides proof for. But because your point of departure is that people saying this exists are crazy, no doubt you will say that these whistle blowers are crazy too. I believe eventually there will be a leak people like you won’t be able to deny. I hope when that happens you will come online and apologise to TIs with the same energy you have put into denigrating them and causing offence.
Mona is a covert agent operating for the joint mafia and corrupt disinformation internet policing units …. she is also one of those who would try to get anyone to believe in magical bullet stories which kill Presidents and bounce a million times to injure others inside of an automobile ….. as she is paid TO COVER UP TRUTH and TO SPREAD METHANE and DISINFORMATION over the internet , Mona what is your last name you whore?
Mona is probably just an abusive person who absolutely has to “win” any discussion she participates in, and is not interested in learning anything or challenging her own assumptions. She is also very naïve: to quote Panglos in Candide, she believes “all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds”. Don’t let her upset you, it’s not worth it.
[facepalm]
Wow. And this stuff:
Busted. Go sit in your living room, right now. I’ve sent Them and They are on their way. You will be dealt with as We always do with those who expose us. If you go anywhere but your living room We will up the Amps on the microwave burns and torment you unmercifully for 72 hours. (And We will, of course, know if you leave your living room.)
Read and obey.
Why do you believe that? Why do you think there’s nothing about any of this crap in Snowden’s documents, or in John Kiriakou’s *actual torture leaks?
Are you filing FOIA requests on all this touchless torture, remote microwave burning, gangstalking and planting voices in heads? If not, why not? Is anyone else filing FOIAs?
How can a “Targeted Individual” know that his or her symptoms are all a result of these evil government machinations if there is no evidence? Where do they get the information telling them the government is the one tormenting them with torture, stalking & etc? Why couldn’t it be aliens?
If Snowden is THE ONLY SOURCE you ARE FOLLOWING FOR A L L O F YOUR INFORMATION OF EVERY WHIM AND SUBJECT YOU SEEK FOR ALL YOUR ANSWERS ….. YOU ARE INSANE AND A FANATIC ….. that’s like saying …. Only Apples Grown by Johnny Appletree are real Apples …. go spread your ridiculous disinformation elsewhere you idiot!
All caps does not make your points any more reasonable. Why is there nothing in the Snowden archives, or in John Kiriakou’s revelations about CIA torture– or from any other leaker about all this “Targeted Individual” business?
“Yet typically in the national security field (and to a striking degree even in corporate and private associations without a formal apparatus of secrecy) even the “weakest links” do not break. No one tells.” -Daniel Ellsberg
The article and larger quote:
http://www.ellsberg.net/archive/secrecy-national-security-whistleblowing
“Since wrong-doing virtually always requires both secrecy and lies, and further secrets and lies to protect the secrets and lies, the wrongful operation-especially in a regime that approaches democracy–is commonly highly vulnerable to a breach of secrecy by any one of the many who share the secret. Yet typically in the national security field (and to a striking degree even in corporate and private associations without a formal apparatus of secrecy) even the “weakest links” do not break. No one tells.”
-Daniel Ellsberg
Ellsberg’s “no one tells” is rhetorical flourish about the community bonding and code of behavior in intel agencies, because he himself did tell. As did his friend Mr. Russo. As have Edward Snowden and John Kiriakou.
But not a one of them has anything to say about touchless torture, remote microwave burning, gangstalking and planting voices in heads etc. Nor is there anyone else leaking this material, notwithstanding the huge numbers of people that would be necessary to carry it all out.
Why do you suppose that is?
anoM: And who are you … all seeing; knowing Five Eyes, dufus?
Top definition at Urban Dictionary:
A bit crass and harsh. But the gist is accurate.
If any of this bullshit was real, at all, there would almost certainly be something in the Snowden cache, but there’s not. Moreover, there would be some documented and documentable evidence from both victims as well as the many, many persons who would have to be involved in implementing all of these devious machinations. But, there are zero leakers or defecters.
The Targeted Indivdual/Gangstalking/Touchless Torture “victims” claims are an audience cult no different than all the myriad people who have claimed they were abducted by aliens and subjected to invasive probing procedures. It’s not real.
Yet, every time this site publishes something remotely touching on the government and torture, the comments section fills with these believers. It’s unfortunate, and does not reflect the generally high level of reasonableness found in most regular Intercept readers and commenters.
While I agree that what some of the posters are saying here is unfortunate and so forth, I wanted to register my disturbance at your quoting, of all things, UrbanDictionary. That’s in terrible taste.
Ha! I like Urban Dictionary! It’s explained all kinds of Intertubz lingo for me.
Does the Urban Dictionary have anything on “targeted dumb ass”? :)
I don’t think so, but some troll or other told me I was “sea lioning” him. Having no clue what that was I ran to Urban Dictionary, and you can only imagine my confusion when I found this entry:
-mona-
Sock Puppet.
Does the Agency pay O.T .for working wknds?
DHS / FBI scum!
Myron May, “My Experience as a Targeted Individual” YouTube
RIP Myron
You people are hazardous to more than comment sections of web sites; the May case suggests you can be acutely dangerous. From the Orlando Sentinel:
That poor man had a severe psychotic break and didn’t get sufficient help, and now he’s dead having taken three others with him. Get some help yourself. What you and your fellow “Targeted Individuals” are doing isn’t funny — it’s serious shit that harms the mentally ill who latch onto it.
Errata: Apparently none of May’s 3 victims perished. Thank gods.
True Psychology is a field that first and foremost is an OPEN ONE , Your manner of looking at things and rushing hastily to fit them tightly and neatly into little boxes is CALLED : CLOSED MINDEDNESS You clearly demonstrate preconceived agenda-like behavior , can I ask you what are YOUR TRUE MOTIVES FOR SHEDDING BAD LIGHT and DISCREDITING PEOPLE WHOM YOU HAVE NEVER MET AND WHOM YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NEVER EVER LOOKED INTO THEIR CASE FILES?? , DO YOU SUFFER FROM SOME FACTOR OF PAST EMOTIONAL GUILT , THAT YOU STILL REGRET AND FEEL YOU MUST Continuously ACT OUT or ACT UPON TO BURY IT OVER AGAIN AS IT MANIFEST ITSELT TO YOUR CONSCIENCE LIKE A GHOST ….. OR ARE SIMPLY AN A MOLE AND A PAID ZOMBIE FOR THE CORRUPT OPS BELONGING TO SECRET SOCIETIES , such as mob or mob-conspiring police organizations such as those who cover up murders via media services? whatever you are , you are not fit to be taking part in open minded conversations as your short eye sight views and perceptions are those that belong to those fabulated legends known as CYCLOPS …. you are a cancer as mob is a cancer to real honest people!
What in the planet and the universe’s name qualifies you on this subject , AND how have you , and your team ? , came up with such a WIDE , BROAD AND ALL ENCOMPASSING CONCLUSIVE POINT OF VIEW ?
I am a Targeted Individual by the quebec government corrupt – mob police , look me up on Facebook and you will SEE A REAL DEATH CERTIFICATE ON MY PROFILE PICTURE SENT TO ME BY THE MOB-POLICE GVT. of Quebec …. I have been targeted for nearly 40 yrs. , including many attempted murders …… You are very a mob government Disinformation Bullshitter to discredit Mafia Government Injustices from being held accountable …. check out my truly official Quebec death certificate you god dam piece of shit degenerate FAKE , my name is Johnny Kareem Gagnon , look at my profile pic you stupid excuse for a human being!
You are a deeply deluded person. Myron May didn’t get enough help, now he’d dead. Get help.
“If any of this bullshit was real, at all, there would almost certainly be something in the Snowden cache, but there’s not. Moreover, there would be some documented and documentable evidence from both victims as well as the many, many persons who would have to be involved in implementing all of these devious machinations. But, there are zero leakers or defecters.”
So says Mona-with-all-the-answers.
(Well, honey, it ain’t over, yet. There’s so much more to come.)
“What really causes your cognitive dissonance, tho, are my questions.” -Mona
My “cognitive dissonance”… about your questions?? Oh, you’re a hoot, Mona. And not nearly as smart and savvy as you believe yourself to be, as I noted elsewhere.
My answer to a question about psychologists helping to spy agencies is no. It seems like a double blind (what ever that is) stupid.
They need to be studied by neurologists, not shrinks.
Excellent read! Torture is illegal! Why in the hell are we still talking about torture? Was everybody hypnotized by that ‘bush’ guy. or his fill in the black fellow? The only thing that runs this country are the rich and the police. Psychology was not created so that torture can be made safer! Are you folks sick?
All this is just the tip of the iceberg. Psychologists and medicos participate in electronic harassment/torture of civilians world wide, where there are no national security issues, just pure experimentation. It is hard to believe only because it is so incredibly awful…
Like the Mafia hasn’t been expert at exploiting all that this amateur has to offer for the entire last century. The boss pumps his balls to inflate his penis? AND he sees a shrink? That failure’s gotta go, PRONTO! Mercy!
Yup, they know the way you roll on their floor gasping out loud, NSA. You made their day.
Did I ever tell you about the time my Great Uncle Tom took us out to his cabin in the mountains so we could go fishing for open-mouth bass? I was convinced that if I caught one, I could turn it into one of those totally gaudy wall-mounted singing ones that would start to croon via some sort of a motion sensor. Obviously, I was wrong about that — hey, I was pretty young — but we did catch some fish that day, and dinner wasn’t too bad.
My Aunt made some of her special potato salad (American, not German) and my Great Uncle grilled that fish up with some corn on the cob. We had watermelon afterward. It was sunny outside. That summer was a strange summer… He taught me all about hooks and bait, and how, if you wanted to throw a certain type of fish back, it was better not to use a barbed hook. I never thought of the word ‘chum’ quite the same way after that year (though I had actually learned how to fish a long time before that summer, out on the open ocean — and we used squid, not worms, so that’s probably why ‘chum’ came to mean something different to me than a sign of friendship; the things we remember from childhood!).
Anyway, it was the last time I ever saw either of them. They got into a car accident a few months later. My Great Uncle died and my Aunt was put on life support for quite a while, but the costs got to be too great for the family to keep up and the doctors all said she was braindead anyway. That was a really tense summer.
Yes, I really am talking about literal fishing. :)
@abbadabba
I refer you to Dr Dhami for free treatment.
;-) :-o ;-) :-o ;-) :-o ;-) :-o ;-) :-o ;-) :-o ;-) :-o ;-) :-o
ICQ?
Nuttin’ is as free as abbadabbadee…but that fish story stunk from the gitmo.
BTW there’s a word for why people will call this stuff ‘ethical’ or even tolerable from an ethics standpoint: Rationalisation. People tend to do whatever the hell they want to do if it ‘interests’ them and then find reasons for it later, if they ever have to. From that perspective, I *do* hold Dhami *personally* accountable for acting egregiously counter to a pretty well-established code of ethics. She chose to do it, and having read her paper, (even absent having read some docs on JTRIG, and knowing some other stuff) there’s no way she DID NOT know, if she used ANY insight whatsoever, that she was overstepping bounds. The word ‘degrade’ was used specifically as a positive thing. There’s no, nada, nicht, zilch, nil, niento, non definition of ‘ethical’ in psychology that includes ‘degrade’ as a method of interaction with a *patient*. The trick is probably that she divorced the whole notion from ‘treatment’ (she seems to be pretty obviously someone more interested in ‘research’ than ‘patients’ anyway, from her background) — either psych treatment or ‘humane treatment’ in general. That, to me, DOES make her quite complicit. The tricky thing is, is she more complicit because she’s credentialed. I’d argue that having taken on the credential, that MAKES her more complicit. Not that there’s anything particularly ethical (cough) in doing this sort of thing, but there’s a whole other level reserved for people who pursue careers meant to help people and use that knowledge to harm people.
First do no harm. It doesn’t sound like she cared about that.
Hippocratic hypocrisy.
People who design, implement or employ these types of human experimentation are devoid of ethics; that is, morally bankrupt. They can rationalise their involvement and/or behaviors all day long, it doesn’t make their actions justifiable. Are we supposed to presume their intended targets or groups give their “implied consent” for this sort of so-called human behavioral research? Ridiculous! It’s a farce, if not an outright crime. I can imagine an instance wherein – on a grand scale – it could lead to a civil war (played out via cyberspace). Let’s face it. This experimentation is the “ultimate in cyberwarfare”. What possible good can come of it? Evil begets evil. Only good can ultimately triumph over evil.
Of course they are. Just because I call something ‘rationalised’ doesn’t mean I consider it ‘good’ or even ‘excusable’.
I do take exception to using ‘good’ and ‘evil’ as polar opposites. It seems like everybody seems to have a separate definition of what ‘good’ is, and a lot seem to believe ‘evil’ is something that other people would disagree with too. There are so many sides to everything.
The Golden Rule with a modification seems, to me, the closest approximation: Do unto others as they would have you do unto them, as you would want done unto you what you’d have done unto you. As I am *pretty sure* most people in the IC wouldn’t want their dirty tricks used against them constantly over a long timeframe, that seems to fit the Modified Golden Rule closely enough, too.
In any civil war played out online (and I find this concept highly doubtful) the People would get decimated, pure and simple. Never bring a knife to a midnight gun fight with a nuclear power with night vision glasses and laser sights, or something like that.
Some ‘science’ is better off not being pursued if it requires ‘proof’ via human experimentation, especially if one has to inform those being experimented upon that they’re being studied and what’s being studied. There have been some fascinating studies done (which weren’t abusive, probably) which showed that people who knew somebody was watching their output at a factory job increased their output because they knew their output was being watched — even though it wasn’t their output that was being watched. This is probably part of why people use sneaky weasel words like ‘implied consent': the truth is you can’t get real consent for anything that’d be abusive, and I’m not sure anybody it could be used on could ever be within their OWN rights to consent to having abusive research conducted upon themselves — even with their ‘explicit’ consent — because the truth is, even the medical field doesn’t even allow this sort of thing for people who are on death’s bed: Just try to get ahold of an experimental drug for late-stage cancer that hasn’t passed a certain stage of research. You could die and you still couldn’t give consent to something that might kill you.
So people rationalise that things can be implicit. But that’s so they can make themselves feel better — not make everybody else feel better.
‘Only good can ultimately triumph over evil’ is pretty much wrong, unfortunately. ‘Good’, from an ethics standpoint, has rules. All that’s less than ‘good’ from an ethics standpoint doesn’t. The minute someone starts redefining words to fit their ethics or redefine ethics to fit the words they want to use, they’ve failed.
Can we agree that war is evil and peace is good? If so, then we might entertain are either or both necessary for the survival of the human species? And what of perpetual war? Isn’t that mankind creating and sustaining hell on this earth?
I can imagine an instance wherein – on a grand scale – it could lead to a civil war (played out via cyberspace). – JSH
Media wars? Information wars? Propaganda wars? Political wars? All ongoing simultaneously … in plain view and behind the scenes, i.e., closed doors, chambers and/or cyberspace. What are you observing occurring and playing out each day?
Agreed as to the doctrine of “implied consent” in the context of our conversation. As a subscriber to internet services and satellite TV, I permit no implied consent to being spied upon. Regardless of whether the pc is booted up or the television set is turned on/off. Neither do I provide expressed consent.
Oh goodie, HTML5 canvas data grabbing is back. I give up on trying.
KISS IT = Keep It Short & Simple. Intelligent Technologies. Who’s your daddy? ;-)
For both our sakes, I hope you’re not my daddy, and equally, that I am not yours.
Dr. Christian Crandall, a professor in the University of Kansas’ social psychology program, disagrees with Dhami’s critics.
“It is certainly possible that JTRIG acts badly, spies on domestic (or American) targets, or even breaks international law. It is a stretch to hold Prof. Dhami responsible for this,” Crandall wrote. “[The report is] quite a bit like what the U.S. Army teaches their strategic communication officers. It’s less offensive than the behaviors of Karl Rove. It’s not benign…”
And what, pray tell, are the offensive behaviors of Karl Rove to which he, Dr. Crandall, refers? Puleez! This screams evil. EVIL!
No need to defend a psychologist. This is part of the (well-paid) job to cope with abuse-blaming. And to learn to go with the bus.
And never try to understand their roleplay – for your own safety. It is way to mad. Any so-called general knows about the danger to get lost in the unknown field of the subconsciousness without a map.
“…My problem is trying to understand what Dhami or any other psychologist would be implicated or even take the bullet for the misdeeds of the GCHQ and JTRIG. Why is she even a story here? The story should be psychologist(s) helped, using their expertise in human psyche, JTRIG with carrying out propaganda and deceit on its own citizens in a nationwide pursuit of… – not Dhami is a sick person for aiding them do this. I am, as you are, disgusted by JTRIG and GCHQ. But I do not understand the need to push this woman under the bus as she is the only tangible target of abuse-blaming.” (comment by jacob)
There are psychologists, so-called; there are still other psychologists, so-called; and there are yet other psychologists, so-called — all of them boasting Ph.D.s. Many, and perhaps nowadays the majority, are by profession so-called psychotherapists, i.e. quasi-psychiatrists lacking a medical education and hence an MD, and/or are social workers, though with the luxury of enjoying a somewhat less hands-on role. Of all the others, some are hired by medical insurance companies to evaluate & gainsay psychiatric diagnoses as submitted for coverage; others are employed by big corporations to vet job-candidates and identify the most suitable among them; yet others are consulted by ad agencies in attempts to identify, to shape & to exploit trends, etc.; still others, I don’t doubt, do more or less the same for political parties & candidates in the lead-up to elections; while yet others are employed within the military in various roles — some but not all of the latter perhaps doubling from time to time as psychotherapists.
Historically speaking, the APA’s blunder has been on the one hand to embrace, to accredit, and to represent all of the many Ph.D. psychotherapists (< Division 39), aka 'mental health professionals' despite their lack of any truly medical credentials (here, for a radical critique, cf. the oeuvre of the late Thomas S. Szasz, MD); and, on the other, the miscellany of Ph.D. psychologists who lay no claim to 'curing souls', as such, but are more than happy to prostitute themselves by selling their 'expert advice' (aka 'psychological insight') not to 'patients' but to the likes of corporations, governments, and the military. Hence, the Bush administration, following the American Medical Association's and the American Psychiatric Association's abstention from any cooperation in the 'enhanced interrogation' program, was able to illicitly arrogate [quasi-]medical oversight and approval by enlisting members of the APA, albeit that these were unrepresentative of the so-called 'mental health professionals' in their profession of quite other specialties.
All of these Ph.D. psychologists do actually share something, however. So deeply concerned to pin all their fiat currencies to a gold standard in such a way that they might constantly validate their purchase on the modern world, they are insistent — a la Dhami — that their notions about human nature, and all the dynamics operating within both individuals and a given society, amount to being "psychological science". Thus, vanity and arrogance are the master keys to unlocking their personal psychology as socialized & professionalized individuals sanctified and even glorified in this by now utterly dildo modern world..
Here down below, our commenter stigira man does a great injustice to cookery in suggesting by implication that it is no more rigorous a doctrine than psychology. Whereas in truth, as we have seen time & time again, so-called "psychological science" has not even one per cent the predictive power of climatology — as mistaken as that can often be — and not .001% the predictive power of cookery. In truth, as our always insightful Benito Mussolini would seem to maintain here down below, this so-called "psychological science" is, at bottom, no more than a confidence trick — but, amazingly, I might add, one that all its proponents & advocates are duped by in having mistaken the fantasy of a science for the real thing — i.e., the latter being a corpus of time-tested hard knowledge that permits of extrapolation and prediction with some real claim to certainty.
Astounding here is how Dhami and her ilk @ the GCHQ and NSA would seem in their enthusiasm for goebbelsdegook and camoronic mind-fucking to have zero trust in democracy, presumably in the conviction that humans are plain unfit for it and hence need to be manipulated psychologically by superior beings in corporations, government, and the military, all of them awarded insecurity clearance. And in that case, I gladly take my stand with all lesser beings.
You do realise that most psychiatrists who have not undergone a vigorous training in psychoanalysis (and even that’s Freudian, so I bridle a bit at it) or Jungian analysis (somewhat better) for many years generally have almost NO training in psychology, yes? They get a semester or two of education and then they’re tossed out there into the world of residency. Most of them only have the most rudimental experience with ‘understanding mental illness’ and are really only learning how to use their prescription pads; insight is rare (there’s a joke about people who go into psychiatry out of med school; it’s not always true but often it is). Most psychologists are far far more qualified than the majority of psychiatrists to treat people who have mental disorders, nowadays. That they abuse those qualifications is inexcusable. That the current materialist mindset of much of society is enough to sway a lot of people to go to the dark side, though, is irrefutable. It’s far easier to find kind psychologists who go into things for the ‘right reasons’. That some people require medications to function, however, means they often are shuttled into the land of psychiatry. Both can be and are abused. Psychology may be a soft science, but so is neuropharmacology to a great extent. Often people have no idea why some drugs work for some things (or they suggest they do when they don’t).
That doesn’t mean all psychologists and psychiatrists are evil. Some actually do quite a lot of good in the world. A lot, though, don’t know how to analyse or fix themselves before they start trying to help other people help themselves. Being able to label things doesn’t make someone a good therapist, and neither does understanding how to manipulate facts (I don’t know why you’re saying psychology isn’t a science; I’d go so far to say it is far more of a science than psychiatry is). But that doesn’t mean all are bad apples. I think it makes more sense to look at intentions, instead of crucifying whole swaths of people based on, you guessed it, labels.
Neuropharmacology should have read neuropsychopharmacology (I was waffing with just psychopharmacology; I’m at a bit of a tossup as to which is more appropriate, given how often seizure meds are being given as mood stabilisers, for instance. The truth is a lot of it is guesswork — which is why I said psychiatry (by extension psychopharmacology & neuropsychopharmacology) is not really science; psychology tends to produce far more reproducible results; something isn’t really science if you have no idea how it works and can’t predict if it will work.)
Thanks. I spent more than a quarter century presenting lectures to psychiatrists, psychoanalysts, and psychotherapists at universities, hospitals, and professional conferences (also a couple of years teaching at a psychotherapy school) throughout North America and Europe. I am no great champion of psychiatry, as such, albeit that I am a careful student of its early & modern histories. But what I have found is that a medical education encourages rigorous thinking, grounded in a careful consideration of all the data, of a kind seldom if ever encountered among psychotherapists — nor even among psychoanalytic psychiatrists, whose analytic training would seem to have induced an atrophy of their erstwhile critical faculties. In my experience, by & large, a huge proportion of Ph.D. psychotherapists are academic failures out of the domains of comparative literature, musicology, and the like — by which I mean to say that they never attained the academic careers to which they had formerly aspired — and, like all psychoanalysts across the board, they are a load of flakes constitutionally incapable of cognizing, considering, and weighing adversarial positions. But also a load of fakes, come to that, in the sense that I like our dear Mussolini earlier elaborated.
In my experience a lot of the people who want to go into psychotherapy go into it because they themselves have been broken or want to help people who have been hurt the way that they were hurt. I tend to believe that biases the whole process. Yes, it’s probably necessary, especially for some types of cases, to have the ability to empathise with people going through problems in order to help them — but it’s dangerous to try to do so when one still has a ton of unresolved, related issues… and I suspect almost everyone has unresolved issues, so that’s not meant to be an invective, nor is the desire to help people. That’s one reason I said I wasn’t fond of Freudian analysis (talk about a dude with problems), even though I did study it (much to my frustration) for a little while. Jung may have had his far-out theories, but ultimately he was far more likely to let patients figure their own things out, and I strongly suspect that works better for most people (in part because no two peoples’ problems are the same, and no two people in any power-dynamics situation, are ever on equal ground.)
I have had the pleasure of meeting a few psychiatrists and psychologists I’d consider very, very good — but not really because of their training — because of their voraciousness for learning and exploration. Having traveled a bit, I’d probably put the number of them at about, maybe, 5 in a large city. That’s not a good number (nor is it, obviously, based on anything but anecdotal evidence and networking at conferences and local gatherings, etc). That said I think a lot of people want to bandaid their problems, not fix them — or work around them. Actual ‘fixing’ of oneself is seriously hard work, and it’s not something one can do an hour or two a week, even for years. Retraining, though, can be done — and the sorts of oversteps like those in the report this article is reporting on tend to be based on those kinds of ‘effects'; really, to my eyes, it’s using CBT and DBT and the like and tossing them all on their head to produce opposite effects using quite similar techniques. And if people really don’t have a strong sense of gravity or self, it’s very easy to see how people can fall into them easily — and get hurt by them tremendously.
CBT, DBT and the like though also have very very good uses. Like many things, psych can be a dual-use technology/science. That doesn’t mean the good uses need to be tossed (as I said, the work of fixing things the long way is, well, WORK, and often people just can’t do it) — it means that we must find a way to make sure the ‘bad uses’ can’t be used without being punished (because the truth is, we can’t stop them from being used — we can only penalise people for violating not only the ethics of their profession but of society. When ‘normal’ people do things like this to destroy people, they’re often considered sociopaths or narcissists (or any combination of the DSM personality disorders). A profession shouldn’t give one license to act sociopathically (nb, I use sociopathically, not psychopathically, and not ASPD) — and a helping profession most certainly shouldn’t.
BTW I got to have lunch a couple of times with Szasz, quite a while ago. Interesting fellow.
Incidentally, I do agree that the current teaching/training method of psychologists, at least clinical psychologists, is sorely lacking when it comes to rigorousness and critical thinking. I’ve often thought something like St. John’s College’s teaching method (probably not a Great Books program, but the heavily interactive/discussion approach) would be a far far better way to approach psych training. A few years of tearing apart ideas and analysing the ‘whys’ would be a far better preparation than a textbook/grad level course on ‘motivation’ or ‘learning’ (been there, done that, have the textbooks).
At this point, this psychologist and her US equivalents are uniformed, combatant personnel. The implications for their loss of any legal protection during hostilities should be evident.
Pseudo science run amok.. The breadcrumb of respectability this so called profession may have had , has with all certainty, completely eroded, under the weight of Abu Gihrab. Giving these people millions of dollars and a platform to assist an institution who’s sole purpose is murdering people, create torture programs grounded in their own personal BDSM & Sado Masochist fantasies, adds to the overflowing pile of credible arguments that these people are little more than charlatan who do not posses even a single millimetre of empathy for humans.
In civilized societies citizens that comply with the official advertised laws and advertised constitution should be rewarded – not punished – by that civilized nation. Punishing citizens, even covertly, for complying with the rules creates banana republics.
It would be like having a posted speed limit of 70 MPH but police ticketing drivers for driving 65 MPH on certain days based on secret law. Citizens can’t comply with secret law and secret agencies acting contrary to the official advertised laws.
Ironically, the American Revolution was based on 18th Century England violating their own English law – operating contrary to their own rulebook for citizens to follow. It appears phychologists in both nations today are using secret law to punish their own fellow citizens in violation of their government loyalty oaths.
I have given some of my opinions in previous news about JTRIGS ;
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/07/14/cia-involving-psychologists-torture-sounds-bad-ok/
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/22/controversial-gchq-unit-domestic-law-enforcement-propaganda/
“her work and her ethical standards” …
Lawyers defending psychologists … That would be an excellent sketch for a comedy!
So, they are not only using Stasi techniques, but shamelessly and openly their terms as well. Are they at least paying franchise rights?
I think it was New Zealand’s prime minister the clown who said he would quit if New Zealand was spying on other countries and he didn’t know about it …
I could hear the same thing word by word said by the NSA. “We” are not doing anything wrong. We are just collecting all your personal info. It is the police and the military the ones doing bad things, you should complain to them …
I really don’t know what the big deal is, they can simply learn from Israel/Zionists how to manipulate people, “fabricate reality”.
~
// __ An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel
~
youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ
~
// __ The General’s Son: Journey of an Israeli in Palestine, June 15, 2012, by Miko Peled
~
amazon.com/dp/193598215X/
Paperback: 224 pages
~
Israel times unsuspected air raids at the very moment when school children belonging to morning and afternoon classes are leaving and coming to schools. When the “chosen ones”, the “descendants of Kind David” and all that cr@p they like to believe (DNA test have proved they are mostly European) do that it is OK, because this is state terrorism sponsored by USG and, of course, what they do is “different” to what Nazis did to them …
Just, lying to people is not hard at all. They don’t even need to make the effort to lie to and manipulate people “scientifically”. Probably they are just bidding for funding streams, trying to justify salaries.
… persuasive communication, compliance, obedience, conformity, and the creation of trust and distrust …
https://ipsoscustodes.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/zersetzung-made-in-u-s-a/
Well, yes! “Arbeit macht frei”
Satyagraha,
RCL
You have articulated this well. I am a victim and have first hand experience of their antics. I have called it a comedy of absurdities. When recently questioned by two psychologists in the NHS, I had the distinct impression that it was not my welfare and wellbeing that they were concerned about but rather the effects of EMF radiation that I was being subjected to. In other words I was an experiment. And Dr C said when it was over…”And we have no contact with the secret services”.
And may I add the secret services have their IT corps whose sole function is to discredit people that speak up on the web.
And I desperately need to talk to Lord Justice Pitchford’s Commission of Enquiry. Is this hoping against hope?
No, it isn’t. Part of their “‘scientific’ work”, the ultimate goal of their experiment is beating us down
With a little “seasoning” you will find your inner peace, self and strength from where to draw vital drive. In my case:
a) I never talk -to- “them” (even if I openly and publicly talk -about- them)
b) Primo Levi (an Italian of Jewish descent himself) says in “Survival In Auschwitz” that he “discovered”, initially took it as some societal artifact that he was a “Jew” when Mussolini instituted racial laws, but then he discovered he liked, took upon himself “being a Jew”
c) they say: “the truth will set you free” … (Gandhi changed him mind from thinking that: “God is truth”; to: “Truth is God”)
d) St. Francis said one of the most beautiful one liners I have ever heard (which after redacting the self-flagellating Catholic thing, I philosophically/neurobiologically/morally corrupted into):
“Above all graces and gifts God has granted us with is one’s capacity of overcoming oneself”
http://vocationjourney.blogspot.com/2013/10/in-what-true-happiness-consists.html
Imagine how cool, nice and true a hippie St. Francis was that he made his way there (in those times people walked, rode donkeys) and Arabs, Muslim people loved him even during crusades’, Inquisition times!
RCL
Thanks Ricardo, discovered link to video of Myron May. May he RIP.
The article is a pile of bovine stool: the journo looks convinced that by calling anything ‘controversial’ (in this case a government’s spying agency) he makes his point. He doesn’t.
As it does often happen, comments are more interesting than the main piece of garbage. The only truly sane person among the commentors is the one who calls himself Benito Mussolini. Strange choice, but never the less: congratulations, Sir!
Thank you, Andrew; very good piece.
I really like Prof. Smith: “I do not think that JTRIG requires a set of ethical guidelines that is different from those that are relevant to the rest of humanity.” Agree 100%, sir.
Andrew – you have it here: “It’s far from clear that there is an ethically correct way to engage in acts to discredit, deceive, denigrate, and degrade unsuspecting targets, and it’s decidedly possible that developing guidelines that purport to do so will only lend legitimacy to unsavory behavior.”
Psy ops, psych experiments (remember that facbook fiasco?), propaganda and the like are indeed unsavory. Dr. King and Ms. Doughtery also have it right.
We need more stand-up people who will support strong ethics.
“We need more stand-up people who will support strong ethics.”
FRI AUG 7, 2015
Gitmo is a “Rights-Free Zone”: Dissident Psychologists Speak Out on APA Role in CIA-Pentagon Torture
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/15414
Hi Joanne –
Thanks, they were stand up people in the article all right. Can we clone them (ummm -that might make more ethical concerns). Let’s just spread their sentiments around, then.
Both of them used waffle words though. I have to admit that bothered me quite a bit when I read their quotes. In the former, he said he didn’t think that it required a different set of ethical guidelines — implying that JTRIG (a) was likely ethical itself and (b) that it’s possible that it might require a different set of guidelines. In the latter quote, It’s far from clear that there is an ethical correct way suggests that there might indeed be an ‘ethical correct way’ — he just doesn’t think the rationale or methodology is clear. He then went on to say that it’s decidedly possible that developing guidelines (making this ‘ethically okay’) will only lend legitimacy to unsavory behavior.
Both suggest neither are willing to come right out and say that it’s wrong and ethically (or morally) reprehensible to degrade people online (for instance)… assuming that person is being degraded by the government. Importantly, both seem to think JTRIG is itself quite okay — they just don’t necessarily, and certainly not vociferously, believe that its guidelines are okay.
I’d have preferred stronger wording.
I didn’t quite get the same feeling you did – especially about Dr. Smith. He also said: “Some of the reported actions of JTRIG are clearly contrary to the ethical guidelines of the British Psychological Society,” Smith wrote in an email. “The descriptions that [s]he provides of the social psychology of influence are broadly accurate, but the use of this knowledge to deceive people or distort the information that they receive is not advocated in any of the sources that [s]he cites.” He added: “I am certainly not comfortable with the ways in which Dr. Dhami has used [her] knowledge of social psychology.”
As far as the author’s quote —- I guess it could have been stronger; maybe he just wanted to keep SOME semblance of “journalistic objectivity.”
I’m just not getting the same sense they sense JTRIG’s guidelines are ok.
Fair enough….
Sometimes I sit around and wonder if, had Zimbardo’s prison experiment been performed today (without Zimbardo’s study) — would it have been stopped early at all? Even Zimbardo almost didn’t — it was his future wife who called attention to how wrapped up in the role-playing he’d gotten.
I think, especially in the psych research field, if wording isn’t pursued strongly enough, it’s often just taken as something to brush off and keep going.
To be honest, if they were to have formed ‘their own’ association, I’d still find it disgraceful but I’d consider it just slightly less despicable. Benito’s comment towards the top (at least as I write this) goes into that fairly well via a different route. And imho if someone were to join that alternate organisation, they should be forbidden to join the other one simultaneously.
Or we just need to stop calling them psych[iatrists, ologists] at all as a profession the minute they start working for the IC. That’d remove some of the onus on other people, at the very least, that practice in good faith and believe that others in their organisation do so as well and follow the same guidelines.
Idunno.
You said: “Or we just need to stop calling them psych[iatrists, ologists] at all as a profession the minute they start working for the IC. That’d remove some of the onus on other people, at the very least, that practice in good faith and believe that others in their organisation do so as well and follow the same guidelines. ” And yes, I read Benito’s post upthread and he does conclude the same thing. Are you two comparing notes? :-)
Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all. If you read the transcript at the link Joanne posted, I was struck by one interviewee saying that there was a big push by some sections(?) of the APA to encourage psychologists to join the military. I probably wouldn’t have given it a second thought some years ago, but now? I think it’s the absolute wrong route for a psych professional to take. Let’s also remember the Psychiatric Assoc. has not ok’d participation in torture (and I hope the org and it’s members stick strictly to that!)
An aside, I’m a retired mathie and I remember some years ago an article in a student math magazine about how great the NSA was to work for. Didn’t bother me then, but NOW it raises my metaphorical hackles.
This list is packed with anonymous trolls employing jtrig tactics. Sowing doubt fear and disbelief. Encouraging acquiescence, complacency, and inaction.
The only way to stop this is a dicussion board policy denying the use of anonymous identities. Its the only way. It won’t happen but it is the only actual solution. I’ve never doxxed anyone and never will. These traitors to your freedom to associate have have made using your real name dangerous and faux anonymity seemingly rules the day.
If you’ve been blacklisted or targeted for a rolling “perpetual” sting or ongoing domestic psyops by whomever you know bringing attention to your situation can make matters worse. No one being targeted is “safe” even if both their threat model and pattern of life are designed to minimize the success of jtrig style online harrassment by the spooks and their apologists.
For many on such blacklists the case against them is almost entirely fictional. Lies rumours and innuendo are spread amongst those you trust, fake blog posts are posted, criminal records salted with falsehoods, they hijack your websites and email servers and plant things in them like personal financial and credit card info frim strangers criminally unredacted documents. Documents the City Attorney never advised us to post. They can turn a saint into a sinner and a sinner into a saint. This jtrig cointelproish carnival sideshow literally thrives on fear and anonymity. We should give them neither satisfaction.
…said the unconfident misinformed uneducsted cowardly luddite desperately seeking social validation and a sense of community from anonymous shadows and ghosts.
Would you care to dance while I sing next go around? Cheers! x
…and even not so anonymous shadows and ghosts…
Well, I’m no “not so anonymous shadow or ghost”. Not if you are in your right frame of mind. Lol! Twitter 2,777 posts. :-).
The name Dr. Mandeep K. Dhami sounds like a daisy doctor from India. These doctors typically have very little ethics generally out here, I have noted, so they must be of the same type in UK.
All Indian doctors must be sent to Pakistan so that they can provide help to the droned population there, instead of staying here and giving us wrong medicines and advise. All of them have fake degrees generally, and even the few that have proper degrees are not good enough to practice any branch of medicine. I rank them same as German doctors who have a hereditary knack torturing people rather than curing anyone.
How about this for a hoot …
“I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore!” Speech from the Movie Network (1976) Let it rip! Enjoy! Lol!
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug
Now that we know our governments have sunk into the sediments of their cesspools of deviant, degenerate behavior… the only question left is when does the human race decide to rid it’s gene pool of these chromosomally aberrant scum?
quote”A British psychologist is receiving sharp criticism from some professional peers for providing expert advice to help the U.K. surveillance agency GCHQ manipulate people online.”unquote
Of which, the slime known as Bennito Mussolini is a working example.
If it steps like a goose…
More on the APA vote.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/07/psychologists-torture-vote-interrogation
Might be worth a separate story.
Yes, indeed. More on the APA vote. Thank you for the heads up, coram nobis.
Doctors who colluded in US torture vote to crawl ‘out of the dark side’
John Barber in Toronto
Friday 7 August 2015 16.06 EDT
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/07/psychologists-torture-vote-interrogation
It’s hard to point the finger at Dhami and blame her for any misdeeds when she’s just a pawn being used by the unreproachable government. If not her then somebody else. She didn’t do anything irresponsible it seems as the JTRIG gangsters would have found someone else in her stead if she didn’t give them what they wanted. She was hired to do a job. That’s all. The employers are always responsible for ethical conduct
Jacob: Wake up and smell the coffee. Did you read the paper?
Dr. Mandeep K. Dhami, in a 2011 paper, provided the controversial GCHQ spy unit JTRIG with advice, research pointers, training recommendations, and thoughts on psychological issues, with the goal of improving the unit’s performance and effectiveness. JTRIG’s operations have been referred to as “dirty tricks,” and Dhami’s paper notes that the unit’s own staff characterize their work using “terms such as ‘discredit,’ promote ‘distrust,’ ‘dissuade,’ ‘deceive,’ ‘disrupt,’ ‘delay,’ ‘deny,’ ‘denigrate/degrade,’ and ‘deter.’” The unit’s targets go beyond terrorists and foreign militaries and include groups considered “domestic extremist[s],” criminals, online “hacktivists,” and even “entire countries.”
“… The unit’s targets go beyond terrorists and foreign militaries and include groups considered “domestic extremist[s],” criminals, online “hacktivists,” and even “entire countries.”
And even “entire countries”? Hello!?! As in attacking the hearts and minds of innocent citizens; bystanders and online participants? This sick shit boarders on psychopathy!
The more I reflect and consider this disgusting; if not horrific matter, the more pissed off I am. The offending fucks know full well what effects their tactics have on their “intended” targets and groups. This type of behavior is “cyberterrorism”.
Programs and operations that are designed to control, intimidate and manipulate behavior, or alter states of mind do, in fact, induce a myriad of responses in the subject(s). These responses cover the full range of emotional and psychological states; to include that of sheer terror. I know.
Joanne I think we are in agreement far more than disagreement. You seem to be disgusted by GCHQ and JTRIG. So am I. They are vile for the way they abuse the people and the system and they shouldn’t exist seeing as the likely damage they inflict far outweighs any good they can or are willing to point towards. My problem is trying to understand what Dhami or any other psychologist would be implicated or even take the bullet for the misdeeds of the GCHQ and JTRIG. Why is she even a story here? The story should be psychologist(s) helped, using their expertise in human psyche, JTRIG with carrying out propaganda and deceit on its own citizens in a nationwide pursuit of… – not Dhami is a sick person for aiding them do this. I am, as you are, disgusted by JTRIG and GCHQ. But I do not understand the need to push this woman under the bus as she is the only tangible target of abuse-blaming.
Jacob: As I suspect you well know, I reside here in the U.S. Targeted here. Online here (via pc or notebook). Watch and listen to satellite television broadcasts via AT&T/DirecTV. My earlier reference to Obama’s Nazi bastards wasn’t a clue?
Oh.
You are one of those delusional freaks.
Andrew Fishman has written a serious and excellent piece about a serious issue. You, however, belong with the space alien programs on the so-called History Channel.
Mr. Fishman certainly has written a serious and excellent piece about a serious issue. I’ve been reading fine articles like these here, ever since The Intercept came online.
In that time, I’ve also read countless comments alluding to an “American Stasi” and “targeting with Zersetsen-type tactics”, etc. When these types of comments show up (sometimes WAY too many, I’ll give you that) I’ve learned that you’ll be right behind, rudely dismissing the posters and belittling them, invariably invoking mental illness and aliens. I don’t understand why these claims upset and concern you so greatly, if you have no dog in the fight and have written these people off as completely nuts from the outset.
Thanks to Snowden and The Intercept, we know our government tortures people. Innocent people, even. We also know they’re using PSYOP tactics against groups of people and individuals deemed “problematic” for myriad reasons. They clearly aren’t doing it with these folks’ best interests in mind, or even with their consent, for that matter. I’d guess that’s probably the tip of a very large and very ugly iceberg. Is it really a stretch to believe that these types of tactics are limited to cyberspace? Serious question!
Bullshit. Snowden’s revelations have not had to do with CIA or DoD torture. CIA and DoD torture had been known of since the Bush Administration, well before either Snowden acted or The Intercept existed.
I don’t know what you mean by that. But I do know that the U.S. government is almost certainly not targeting hordes of unremarkable American citizens and bouncing radiowaves off the ionosphere to mentally torture them and place voices in their heads, all while inveigling family members and co-workers into stalking these many nobodies.
More than one Intercept author has made it clear that s/he does not want gaggles of believers in all this crap flooding their comments. I agree.
Mona, your shrieking reactions to mention of the US’ domestic torture habit indicate you are not just stubbornly ignorant but quite malicious. Or maybe you are jealous with the thought those hordes of targeted people are far more remarkable than yourself. (A nasty little American coward like yourself probably would not would not last a year.)
Or is it all of the above: ignorant — like most Americans, utterly clueless about what goes on in their own country — nasty, cowardly, and envious of those more remarkable than yourself?
Now, run to mommy.
That’s funny. If I were in the IC and knew she was close friends with GG (and I think probably most people in the IC with any interest in these matters would know this — she’s chosen to make it abundantly clear), I’d consider her just the type of person to be using tactics such as those that JTRIG and their ilk make use of — and she probably *is* targeted for a whole lot of manipulation — at least it’d be far more logical for her to be than for random individuals to be. That’s not to say that sometimes random people don’t get harrassed. They do — often by other random individuals and groups of individuals. But it’s important to be able to distinguish between what’s more likely and what’s less likely, Stan, and to understand that, even if you were being targeted, it’d be a lot less difficult to believe sans a real reason for it; for one thing, it’s expensive to harass people, and there’s actually a limited number of people available to do such things, I’d reckon. From an effects standpoint, going after random people and learning all about them just isn’t very likely, because it’s unlikely that it’d pay off down the line. Note that I personally find all of this stuff for any reason reprehensible, but let’s, for example, say you were being rope-a-doped: If you were, it’d likely be done because someone thought you might be useful generally speaking — but not specifically speaking. From that standpoint, feeding into it by posting things all over the place about stuff like this would be far more likely than not to increase any sort of random harassment you might be getting. Why? Because it’d mean that whatever was being done (and I don’t believe in ‘touchless torture’ but I do believe that people do get manipulated online a lot, especially when they’re primed to be) was *working*. Creating noise is a useful outcome to people who might do such things. By creating it, you’re basically doing their work for them, so you wind up being both the victim and the perpetrator, and all the while whoever it is ‘they’ might be may not even have the slightest clue who you are.
All just theory. I know you think I’m some sort of ‘one of them’ but I’m not.
Lot of words with little meaning.
I can make a very good guess as to why they/you do not like me, and not liking a person is sufficient reason in the minds of the US psychologists (or psychopaths, take your pick) who design my torture programs.
But at 6am on Wednesday, July 29, after more than a dozen years, I got the first official explanation from a confirmed Stasi Rodent installed behind the cash register at an Austin Ramada Inn: I was being stalked for “Certain Reasons”. (I am sure the patriot has never read Kafka, so I was almost impressed.)
Now, I prefer you not speak to me; you swirl BS I will ignore from here out.
So, what is this one? Your 3rd or 4th account? Just keep a lid on your, um, enthusiasms and maybe you’ll be allowed to stay. In the meantime, this will certainly interest you: http://www.amazon.com/Abduction-Hypnosis-Psychiatry-Quantum-Religions/dp/1434824462
Second account, Liar.
Glad to be here to top off your blood pressure once in a while. I also enjoy seeing American torturers’ defenders ply their trade in public.
Mona, they are not “believers”, they are victims. They do not propose some theory, they describe what is happening to their bodies. I do understand your disbelief: it’s hard to accept unless it happens to you.
It’s a new arms race, the targeting is for experimental purposes and the targets are ordinary because who they are is no more important than the identity of a lab rat. It’ not just the US, Russia, China, they are all conducting similar “research”.
Try and keep an open mind if you can. It’s ok to not take any position on something you don’t really know anything about.
Actually, I’m quite well-informed about the deluded people who adhere to these audience cults and about the phenomenon itself. The UFO-abductee and -sightings people are the audience cult I’ve most extensively studied, but the Targeted Individual crap is the same thing.
Well, in the same sense those poor souls who think ET is hoovering them up to the Mother Ship to prod their naughty bits are victims, I suppose they are.
I don’t understand why you have such a difficult time just letting this stuff go and ignoring it. You repeatedly let it bother you and upset you, loudly, and they repeatedly pile it on, working you into a froth. It’s creating a self-sustaining cycle. If you consider it a sport, that’s one thing, but if not — Cui bono?
A fit of pique, not froth.
Except for my standalone way above, I haven’t challenged these deluded folks in any other of the sub-threads where they are peddling this nonsense. It’s all here.
I do find this somewhat entertaining, or I wouldn’t do it.
While you may find it ‘entertaining’, you are perpetuating it, and no doubt are entertaining someone(s) else. I’m not sure why you’re doing that but often when they stop, you make standalone comments like the one you just mentioned, which tends to start it up all over again. I don’t think you really want them to go away; I think you’d maybe even miss them. They seem like something you see as an easy target — maybe they see you as one too. I’ve definitely seen you get frothy on more than one occasion when it comes to this. Either way, who does it really benefit to perpetuate it?
Mona: You and several others here remind me of the “stock bashers” on various investment websites pre-9/11/01. Nasty piece of work, you. My bullshit detector is on high alert. Lol!
Have you considered changing the rather usual ‘Lol!’ at the ends of your posts with something more original? ‘Slap ma fro!’ was probably already taken, but ‘Howwaboutdat!’ might suit you as a signoff?
Ok. You and several others here remind me of this: http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-08/14/10/enhanced/webdr06/enhanced-buzz-11824-1408026659-4.jpg
Have you considered starting up your own blog? Lol!
Whose pawn are you?
Nobody’s. I’m unemployed and worthless so far.
“Whosoever shall aid, abet, counsel, or procure the commission of any indictable offence, whether the same be an offence at common law or by virtue of any Act passed or to be passed, shall be liable to be tried, indicted, and punished as a principal offender.”
Accessories and Abettors Act 1861[
This is an outstanding piece of journalism, Mr. Andrew Fishman. Well done. I actually got through it and followed up with some research without becoming incensed for a change. This kind of shit has had such a devastating affect in my life, it usually makes me want to spit nails when I’m reminded about it.
Manipulating people is not an invention of psychology – although the apa would no doubt like to take the credit. All of the techniques described by Dr. Dhami have long been known to con artists.
So what’s unethical is the apa taking advantage of their professional status to extort extravagant sums from the GCHQ for passing on tips that are really the intellectual property of somebody else. The GCHQ is the victim here – had they gone directly to the con artists, they would have received better advice at a fraction of the price.
However, hiring a con artist looks bad on the expense claims. So if the GCHQ is willing to pay a premium price for the prestige associated with the apa, perhaps we should respect their right to waste taxpayers money as they see fit. I think that people who buy Gucci shoes are being ripped off, but if those people are made happy by being conspicuous consumers, why begrudge them their imbecility?
So I’m less worried than the author of this article. The GCHQ is happy, the psychologists are happy and the people are going to be manipulated one way or another. The only ones who lose out are the con artists, but they can simply join the apa and get a piece of the action. Hopefully the apa has some sort of grandfather clause so that their practical experience is recognized in lieu of academic credentials.
Benito Mussolini: Are you related to Kelsey Grammer by any chance? Lol!
No, Frasier Crane is a licensed psychiatrist, whereas I am merely an aspiring psychologist.
Frasier Crane is a fictional character in the American television series “Frasier” (1993 – 2004). He plays the roll of a licensed psychiatrist who broadcasts via radio. Thus it follows that your fictional “inner self” is, in fact, phony.
You talk more voodoo than they do.
*which is a lot!
Just practicing. I’m hoping once I join the apa under their grandfather clause, I’ll be able to invoice the GCHQ for my comments.
I once paid a woman (APA accredited psychologist, iirc) $100/hr. for marriage counseling. After about $10,000 (maybe $50,000) she told me I was ‘co-dependent’. I assumed I was cured and stopped going.
Yea, I actually began the invoicing process myself quite a while ago. It’s better to have all of that paperwork on hand for if and when you can ever ask for a paycheck for past work and expenses. What’s your hourly? I’m still at a loss for how to bill for the ‘thinking phase’ but I’ve decided to approach it like a lawyer: If I’m thinking about it, then someone’s gonna get billed, and I’m obviously going to invoice those working dinners, too.
Says the lead psychologist of the PTB who’s been posting reverse psychology here for a year. Fuck you slimeball. I only pray at some point you will be outted for who and what you truly are.
You know those blackouts that you blamed on alcohol? That was me, your alter ego, taking control and writing comments in The Intercept. Check your computer and you’ll find the evidence. If my application to the apa is accepted, I’ll take over full control. Bwahahaha!
Duce, once again you made me laugh hard!
Sarcasm aside, I think you are missing (or for some reason didn’t emphasize those points in your hilarious rendering). Important and essential points as to why psychologists are not supposed to be offering their (very pseudo-)’scientific’ knowledge that are:
1) we all know con artists as such (as they do themselves) and we very well know, they are not, say, teachers (nor do we expect them to be)
2) con artists have always used our imbecility to rip us off, but we get “our thing” and they get our money, sweat and hopes
3) psychologists do actual physical/biological damage to us
4) as you point out politicians and police have always had their tried-and-true ways to take advantage of our stupidity and our morally base, animal underpinnings
5) psychologists and psychiatrists have always had a very bad track record of teaming up with politicians and police to mess with people:
// __ The age of fear – psychiatry’s reign of terror …
~
youtube.com/watch?v=3hj49xDEXow
~
In fact, modern neurobiology has exposed Freud as one of the greatest fraud, con artists ever existed. Their terminology; even the title of the book used by José Delgado, the ‘scientist’ who did the charging bull and monkeys experiments:
// __ mind Control Sciences ~ Jose Delgado and His Bull Story
~
youtube.com/watch?v=m4VRjnMvsXg
~
and got the “mind control” ball rolling: “Physical Control of the Mind: Toward a Psychocivilized Society” (ISBN-10: 0060902086, 288 pages); will make you laugh: a “Psychocivilized Society … ”
Not long ago girlfriend told me I should talk to medical professionals and who am I not to do what girlfriend/wife says. Psychologist who seemed to be OK (some have told me off outrightly) stopped me in the middle of my stream of consciousness and asked me: “… but how can I help you?” telling me I was obviously not crazy and that he has no way of stopping police giving me sh!t …
In solidarity, he offered to help me with a survey I am planning to use to gather experiences of targeted individuals, expose those morally deafferented morons’ rear ends:
https://ipsoscustodes.wordpress.com/2015/06/22/draft-of-questionnaire-for-targeted-individuals/
RCL
ONE WORD: ZERSETZUNG.
Yep.
“The dark secrets of a surveillance state”
TEDSalon Berlin 2014
http://www.ted.com/talks/hubertus_knabe_the_dark_secrets_of_a_surveillance_state?language=en
ZERSETZUNG. EXACTLY! (I’ve been targeted for 13 1/2 years.)
Related reading: The Hidden Evil – 17
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/hiddenevil/hiddenevil17.htm
You got it!
You know what they hate the most? When you go online and make anti-war comments. They made an offer to me “If you stop going on RT,China daily newspaper and stop making those anti-war comments, we will stop this no-touch torture”. Plus, adding fuel to fire simply discuss MKULTRA online and see how they beg you to stop commenting. The fact they hate the anti-war comments so much clearly show its the Military Industrial Complex on drugs. Else, last resort is always visiting various embassies and submitting asylums(even if you won’t go there on approval of application) because whole purpose is to freak them out at idea of American begging North Korea for help. I tried going to Chinese Embassy to apply scholarship visa , they destroyed one car engine(mid way) then i got my another car they punchured three tyres, then my spare type was missing too.Chinese Embassy actually didn’t accept my asylum but said i am welcome to visit and gave me a FREE MI phone(Xaomi) to use because NSA has hacked and disabled touch screen of every phone i could ever buy.Remember these tricks.
Tell the Obama Nazi bastards: No deal! Why would you choose to dance with the devil? Do dah. Do dah. SICKOS!
I always love when there’s a new JTRIG article :)
“They made an offer to me “If you stop going on RT,China daily newspaper and stop making those anti-war comments, we will stop this no-touch torture””
Yes, I am sure they just walked on up to you and said exactly those words. Please get some help.
Actually, in my case they have yelled at me: “How much?”
To me it meant either “How much should we pay you to work for us, or become our snitch?”
I used to be in very basic “hi-hi back!” friendly terms with some guy who lives around where I live who was an auditor for the school I worked and I don’t know from where he found out I didn’t have a job at that moment, yet one day I was reading in a park and he showed up out of nowhere and I said “hi!” and turned my eyeballs to my book. He came up to me in a very awkward way and just told me out of the blue “he had a job for me, but I had to sign some papers …”.
I assumed someone may have told him or something and simply told him: “I couldn’t take those kinds of ‘signature’ jobs, because I was in the FBI criminal index” … he then told me putting a funny patronizing face (and this is when I realized he was a snitch) “well, if you say so …”
Since then I have totally ignored him when I run into him.
RCL
It’s far from clear that there is an ethically correct way to engage in acts to discredit, deceive, denigrate, and degrade unsuspecting targets, and it’s decidedly possible that developing guidelines that purport to do so will only lend legitimacy to unsavory behavior.
Don’t forget there is also no ethically correct way to engage in acts to discredit, deceive, denigrate, and degrade targets who do know exactly what is going on, and illegitimate guidelines were developed many years ago.
“Dissident Psychologists Speak Out on APA Role in CIA-Pentagon Torture”
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/8/7/gitmo_is_a_rights_free_zone
“This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re broadcasting from Toronto, Canada, the site of the convention of the largest group of psychologists in the world, the American Psychological Association. The group’s Council of Representatives is scheduled to vote today on a resolution to bar psychologists from participating in national security interrogations. Ahead of the vote, Psychologists for Social Responsibility hosted a town hall meeting at Saint Andrew’s Presbyterian Church here in Toronto last night. These are some of the voices from the gathering. We begin with Widney Brown of Physicians for Human Rights.”
continues…
“ALICE LOCICERO: My name is Alice Locicero. I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I’m a clinical psychologist, and I have taught, trained, supervised thousands of psychology students. I personally would like psychologists completely out of the military. I’d like us to end recruiting. I find it very disturbing that a high percentage of the recruiters at APA conventions are military and security agencies. I’ve also been very interested with some of my colleagues over the inconsistencies within APA regarding psychologists working in military settings and military psychologists. Just to be really clear, 7 percent of psychologists are paid completely by the Department of Defense and 5 percent by the Veterans Administration.
The American Psychological Association in recent years has been very, very active in encouraging students to become military psychologists. They have advocated for huge signing bonuses. The internship salaries are enormous for military psychologists. And at the same time, what I’ve learned—some of my colleagues and I have done some studies, and what we’ve learned is that clinical psychology doctoral students are not—by and large, not being taught anything about ethics in military settings. And they’re also not being taught how to deal with conflict between—what to do if you’re given an order that is to do something that’s unethical. And they’re not being taught anything about the international treaties and how those might guide psychologists, provide guidance if they were given in order that was unethical.
I would say very quickly that if you’re a military psychologist, your allegiances are often split. And just to keep perspective on size and budget, the American Psychological Association budget for 2014 was $112 million. The Department of Defense budget was over $500 billion, and that’s without special allocations. It’s an order of magnitude of about one to 4,000. So, you know, when we think about doing moral leadership, which is what I understand people here are doing, it’s a big job, and it really requires a lot of inspiration. Thank you.”
“A British psychologist is receiving sharp criticism from some professional peers for providing expert advice to help the U.K. surveillance agency GCHQ manipulate people online.”
This is absolute, downright evil work in the making! It sanctions online “cyberstalking,” promotes mind bending/blowing/fucking games, and could likely result in homicidal behaviors on the part of the target(s) and/or participant(s) involved. SICKO SCIENCE !!
Don’t make the mistake in thinking these types of so-called HUMINT tactics are limited to online activities. SpyTV too!
Be careful not to confuse your HUMINT with your OSINT and your SIGINT! ;)
But in all seriousness I have been meaning to mention… it can be frustrating when you treat the comment section here as if it were your Twitter account. Often you post things that have nothing to do with the article at hand (and old, at that). I’m not saying you’re deliberately trying to disrupt conversations or anything, but it’d be appreciated if you did such slightly less to cut down the noise factor for those of us who only have an hour or two to spend online, often interspersed, throughout a day. Thanks. :)
It is appalling that psychologists cooperate with governments in physical and/or mental torture of people no matter what they’ve supposedly done or did not do.
Revealed by TIC among others, massive psych-ops by social media with thousands of victims and some casualties and Snowden disclosure of the long suspected global spying, manipulation and infiltration system grew exponentially over last decades but they were widely used before by means of co-opted press and other older techniques of threats and intimidation.
What is even more disturbing is that unduly acquired by psychology/psychiatry the government-backed authority renders their scientifically questionable judgments superior to that of local culture, tradition or community practices with catastrophic consequences to in context of judiciary and implementation of the law.
So what is so attractive and seemingly useful for ruling power in the realm of psychology or psychiatry prompting them to pay countless millions of dollars for their dubious services?
First of all psychology is not a science like cooking is not science although it can consistently and repeatedly provide “desired” results.
It is neo-scholastic type of knowledge based on statistically categorizing shallow observations with no deep understanding of underlying mechanisms or principles, approach common to all behaviorist’ inquiries.
Psychology is a very old field of knowledge dating from at least Greek classical period from 700 BC. It has been developed as a part of control structure supporting early political systems.
In other words psychology, through observations and experimentation provided recipe for manipulating people to acquire certain attitudes or acts in certain ways as a part of political process. In different political systems psychology provides different tools and methods to control attitudes and actions often combined with mental and physical intimidation or torture.
Similarly to organized religion, psychology, including positive psychology as a tool of powers, is very insidious since it using against its victims their own “confessions” about their internal feelings, conflicts as well as individual intellectual analysis of society under control of ruling elite. It has never been about well being of an individual and the complete lack of documented cures or even positive long term clinical results speak for itself.
To truly understand what psychology is and see through the crap about happiness that is spewed among populace read: “SAVING THE MODERN SOUL” by Eva Illouz; UC Press 2008; check it out from any college library.
An interesting take on a role of certain concepts of mental illness, developed by psychologists/psychiatrists, as applied for purposes of control of society I found at:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/loss-of-beautiful-mind/
Another fallacy spewed shamelessly within the society is notion of positive psychology. I contrast to its assertions, happiness is physical health, social stability, planning for future outlook, fulfilling relationships within social life cycle, and creativity in contribution to society as well as dedication to others and appreciation by others, all objective, physically measurable and expressible concepts.
Happiness has nothing to do with our feelings but all to do with external social reality.
Even though (ancient ;-)) Greeks taught us objectivity (the lever, prime number factorization, Earth is round. actually revolves around sun (eclipses are shadows projected my the Earth on its moon)) and rationality (you can actually prove a mathematical proposition!!! (turning it into a Theorem) and express bodies of knowledge as corpora: Euclid Elements) they still, saw Logic, Math, Philosophy and Botany as “Natural Philosophy”
RCL
Psychologists and physicians love and hate each other dearly and beeing forced to work together is a torture for both sides. (To give a pill or not to give a pill or maybe even two…)
But anyway some hylo-idealistic individuals think both professions should aid one another to promote human welfare. So depressing.
As a general comment, these types of programs start out under the guise that they could go after terrorists, but then they end up being used to go after citizens who complain about the government breaking the law.
Legal question: If the British government created a fake blog to discredit an American citizen, would that American citizen be able to sue the British government?
Not in the US Courts, which are reluctant to limit speech.
There are laws specific to slander, libel, and defamation in the United States of America. I am not a lawyer, but there are limits to free speech.
I have actually done a little research on this and found that the slander / libel / defamation laws are state laws in the USA. The problem is how do you prove that the blog engaged in slander is connected to British intelligence? They are surely creating front companies for these websites.
Mike the hit-man in the TV series “Braking Bad.” “I’ve known good criminals and bad cops, bad priests, honorable thieves; you can be on one side of the law or the other.” Moral you can be a criminal doing good deeds but you are still a criminal.