For the past month Jeremy Corbyn, the British MP and democratic socialist who just won the election to lead the U.K.’s Labour Party in a landslide, has been vociferously accused across the British media of associating with political figures who are anti-Semitic.
“The problem,” according to the Community Security Trust, a U.K. Jewish organization, “is not that Corbyn is an anti-Semite or a Holocaust denier — he is neither. The problem is that he seems to gravitate towards people who are, if they come with an anti-Israel sticker on them.” Similarly, political journalist James Bloodworth wrote in the Guardian, “While I genuinely believe Corbyn does not have an anti-Semitic bone in his body, he does have a proclivity for sharing platforms with individuals who do.” The right-wing Telegraph got so excited it falsely claimed that another Labour MP had accused Corbyn himself of using “anti-Semitic rhetoric.”
Corbyn was forced to repeatedly respond in several venues. Beyond addressing the specific issues, he’s made several statements such as, “I’ve spent my life opposing racism. Until my dying day, I’ll be opposed to racism in any form. … Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, far-right racism is totally wrong and absolutely obnoxious and I’ve made that absolutely clear to everybody who will listen to me on this subject.” And Corbyn’s spokesperson said that anyone found by the Labour Party’s procedures committee to be responsible for anti-Semitism should not be allowed to vote in the leadership election.
The most interesting part of the Corbyn fracas isn’t whether he’s “guilty” or not. It’s that the British media and politicians have created a guilt-by-association standard that appears to apply to Corbyn and Corbyn alone.
If the same standard were applied to establishment politicians, they’d all be far more guilty than Corbyn. Such politicians regularly meet with, praise and/or give enormous material support to people who’ve said or done things at least as bigoted or appalling as Corbyn’s associates — and there’s nowhere near the same sustained outcry. Why? What accounts for the different reactions?
To understand this, it’s useful to sort politicians’ associations into a few categories:
• Politicians meeting with horrendous people when the politicians aren’t heads of state. Heads of state have less flexibility about whom they meet — and in fact arguably must meet with horrendous people. Corbyn, since he’s not the British Prime Minister, has more flexibility, yet has associated with figures with grievous flaws. But so has every establishment politician you could name.
David Cameron shakes hands with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the shadow cabinet rooms of the Houses of Parliament on February 22, 2007 in London.
Photo: Bruno Vincent/Getty Images
That Palestinian leader, of course, is Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority. Abbas later contradicted his earlier statements on the Holocaust, first calling it “a terrible thing” in 2003 (while being shifty about how many people died), and then in 2014 describing it as “the most heinous crime to have occurred against humanity in the modern era.” But Corbyn’s associate Raed Salah also repudiated his use of the notorious anti-Semitic blood libel, which has made no difference to those damning Corbyn. So if associating with Salah is wrong for Corbyn, associating with Abbas should have been just as wrong for Cameron (and dozens of other Western politicians).
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair (L) and Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci (R) review Kosovo’s Security Force honor guard, during an official welcoming ceremony in Pristina on July 8, 2010.
Photo: Armend Nimani/AFP/Getty Images
• Politicians giving material support to horrendous people when the politicians are heads of state. Perhaps heads of state have to meet with their awful counterparts, but they don’t have to sell them Typhoon fighter jets.
But that’s exactly what David Cameron has been anxious to do for Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. And Tony Blair killed an investigation into massive corruption involving the Saudi government and British arms manufacturer BAE.
Yet it hardly needs to be said that the Saudi government-controlled media has long been a sewer of anti-Semitism. Arab Radio and Television of Saudi Arabia notoriously produced “Horseman Without a Horse,” a multi-part series that treated The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact. Saudi censors have blocked the website of the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam. For its part, the UAE is (according to Anti-Defamation League polling) one of the 10 most anti-Semitic countries on earth.
Lebanese parliament majority leader Saad Hariri (C) smiles as MP and Druze leader Walid Jumblatt greets U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice during their meeting in Beirut, February 23, 2006.
Photo: Mahmoud Kheir/AFP/Getty Images
Yet Jumblatt had made shockingly anti-Semitic statements on many previous occasions. After Paul Wolfowitz survived a rocket attack in Baghdad in 2003, Jumblatt stated: “We hope that next time the rockets will be more accurate and effective in getting rid of this virus and his like, who wreak corruption in Arab lands.” He’s claimed that the real axis of evil is one of “oil and Jews.” And after a suicide bombing in Gaza in 2004 he declared that “the fall of one Jew, whether soldier or civilian, is a great accomplishment.”
• Politicians associating with people who aren’t generally recognized as horrendous enough to be shunned — but should be.
Former U.S. presidents Bill Clinton (L) and George W. Bush talk about their hopes for the Presidential Leadership Scholars program at the Newseum September 8, 2014 in Washington, D.C.
Photo: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
Yet Tony Blair traveled to Dallas in 2013 to celebrate the opening of the George W. Bush Library with Bush’s fellow war criminals. And here’s Bill Clinton in 2014 yukking it up with Bush — who’s now so close to Clinton that Bush calls him his “brother from another mother.”
• • •
So what accounts for the sudden depth and breadth of outrage over what was said years ago by Corbyn’s associates? It’s clearly not a genuine concern over actual anti-Semitism, or there would have been far, far more outrage at all the politicians who’ve given concrete, material support to very serious anti-Semites. Nor is it a principled objection to wrongdoing in general.
The answer is obvious: Corbyn’s casual ties to a small number of dodgy characters are simply a handy club with which to beat someone who defies the center-right consensus on U.K. domestic and foreign policy. It’s exactly analogous to constant U.S. and U.K. government and media “outrage” over human rights abuses carried out by our official enemies; i.e., totally insincere, given our government and media’s near-total silence about human rights abuses committed by our official friends. As a “senior U.S. official” told the Washington Post in 2013 about our real attitude toward human rights: “The countries that cooperate with us get at least a free pass … Whereas other countries that don’t cooperate, we ream them as best we can.” In precisely the same way, British politicians who cooperate with the U.K. establishment get a free pass; Corbyn does not, so he’s being “reamed” as best they can.
None of this is to say there are no legitimate grounds to criticize Corbyn. First, from a straightforward ethical standpoint, it may not be satisfying for Corbyn’s supporters to say that he is no worse than other politicians; they may want to demand that he be significantly, clearly better. And second, ethics aside, from the perspective of efficacy it would be preferable for Corbyn to be more careful. If he wants to have an impact on the world, and especially if he wants to improve the lives of Palestinians, he should be aware that the rules are different for anyone with his political positions, and act accordingly.
But there’s no question that the volume of current attacks on Corbyn have nothing to do with the facts about politics in Britain or the West generally. It’s just the machinery of power acting to protect itself — with all the gruesome hypocrisy that always involves.
Correction: September 12, 2015
Best comments EVER in this thread.
Since Cameron said of Jeremey that Jeremy Corbyn is a national uk threat to national security, these corrupt wicked genociders and peddlers and purveyors call their onions of “””chaos out of order” help and peace to foreign nations while subverting and violating the viena, geneva and international rule of law disdainfully. Disgusting is short.
watch the Varoufakis who defeated and decimated all the kosher rothschild’s klans of the world and their media speak of what is right concerning this victory of Jeremy.
https://youtu.be/HJXqqL9t9kg?t=1h5m10s
“the kosher rothschild’s klans of the world and their media”
***MORONIC ANTI-SEMITE ALERT***
No wonder scum like you love Jeremy.
Also will post to the Bernie Sanders story further up. It seems that Hillary has a new super-PAC and it’s attacking Bernie because of his congratulations to Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/15/bernie-sanders-clinton-super-pac-jeremy-corbyn
I am vehemently opposed to the very existence of the State of Israel, to it’s oppression of the Palestinian owners of the land. But I am not anti-Semitic. It is a measure of how craven and beleaguered the Zionist state has become that they feel the need to equate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism. I wonder how those many, many Jews all over the world get on when they condemn the State of Israel too. The large jewish community in Iran, who have never suffered an ounce of mis-treatment or discrimination by the Iranian government,have roundly condemned Israel as being against scripture. If only the Palestinians were treated as well by the Israelis as the Iranian Jews are treated by the Moslem state of Iran.
Yours is probably the most idiotic thing I have read in recent days. Wrong on so many levels and in so many ways there is really no starting point. If you choose not to avail yourself of freely available resources repudiating almost every syllable of your maniacally stupid conclusions your world view is entirely warped.
Setting aside the usual insults, Casey, what exactly is your point,if you have one?
Anti-Zionism isn’t always Antisemitism–but that doesn’t mean it never is.
When I need to reset my brain on world’s actuality, I go to The Intercept. Thank you for existing. I’ve just read about The new Labour Party , Jeremy Corbyn. It is a great article. Written so well that I read it all. So refreshing to read. It gave me a sense of Justice and hope. We need more and more people like him and like you guys to tell us the facts as they are.
Thank you again.
Here is the definitive piece on this dangerous enemy within:
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/193579/meet-jeremy-corbyn-the-new-leader-of-britains-labour-party
And some more insight into the crazy conspiracist world-view he shares with his followers – no wonder that anti-Semitic pro-Palestinian BDS scum on here are also big fans:
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/193579/meet-jeremy-corbyn-the-new-leader-of-britains-labour-party
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/09/10/jeremy-corbyn-and-the-contagion-of-conspiracy-theories/#
And a portrait in The Washington Post, focusing on Corbyn’s irrational anti-Americanism:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-threat-of-jeremy-corbyns-radically-anti-american-agenda/2015/09/14/729b816a-5b00-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html
“Mr. Corbyn espouses a foreign policy whose guiding principle is to oppose the United States and Israel by all means. It has led him to label as “friends” such disparate political forces as Hamas, Hezbollah and the populist government of Venezuela and to accept funding from organizations designated by the U.S. government as terrorist groups. Mr. Corbyn endorsed the Iraqi insurgents who fought U.S. troops and equated the Islamic State’s overrunning of Iraqi cities with the 2004 U.S. offensive in Fallujah. He said that Washington, rather than Moscow, is to blame for the civil war in Ukraine. In an interview with Iran’s state television channel, he called the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden a “tragedy.” ”
No wonder that jihadi fellow travelers on The Intercept are salivating.
Um. Does he know that antisemitism and Islamophobia are not racist stances as they refer to religions not race?
Um, you moron, “antisemitism” is most definitely hatred of Jews-as-race, because the word was invented to mean precisely that.
Semites are the descendents of Shem. Jews are semites, as are Palestinians.
There is no doubt that the reestablishment of the Jewish homeland (Zionism) has been at the expense of Palestinians families and communities.
You can even make the argument that the way Zionism has gone about it’s business of land grabs, massacres and assassinations is quite literally anti-semitic since the only people killed and dispossessed were semitic.
Aside from that though, the argument allows us to see through the rhetoric of those that use falsehoods to smear their opponents.
Wanting an end to the violence and for Israel to keep its agreement to a two state solution is not anti-semitic.
It’s the majority preference of both the Palentinian and Israeli people.
Antisemitism doesn’t mean Semites, it means Jews–look in any dictionary
technically semites are Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs, the term antisemitic has always been misused, personally I think that there should be a discussion on the language used as this word is really not fit for purpose. All prejudice is disgusting to me.
More on Corbyn. The Guardian imagines his first 100 days as PM.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/14/prime-minister-jeremy-corbyn-the-first-100-days
From the author who wrote A Very British Coup.
Jen writes below:
Please cite 3 specific examples of criticism of Israel that are antisemtic, as well as the identities of the person(s) saying these things.
Please list three specific imperfections of Israel’s.
Who says these things? And what makes each of them antisemitic?
Who makes this assumption, and how is it known that the person saying it is not thinking? So, if a Gazan speaks sourly of “the Israelis,” s/he has no reason other than antisemitism to feel that way?
So you don’t think statements like that of ‘Donald B.’ or ‘dahoit’ below are hateful racist statements? I’m not interested in going tit-for-tat on Israel/Palestine arguments, there’s plenty of valid arguments on BOTH SIDES and going into details is just endless, the same comments made in one context could be valid while in another suspect, but if you can’t really see that those kinds of statements below are just beyond the Pale, and that quite a lot of that kind of rabid hatred, which can’t be explained purely by a disagreement with the politics of a state, is commonly spouted in reference to Israel then you are willfully closing your eyes to it. It’s exactly the same kind of hatred mongering against a whole people that ends in genocide, in the middle east, africa and europe. And if you can understand how institutionalized racism flourishes in our own country with the way subtle beliefs and views about African Americans has colored many assumptions that people don’t even question, but then can’t recognize the very same thing in how Jews are viewed then you are also blind. Certainly some extremist elements of the Israeli population are guilty of the same thing against the Palestinians, and I don’t support that either – and neither do a majority of Israelis btw. And, no, if a Gazan spoke sourly about ‘the Israelis’ I wouldn’t hold it against him. But if you’re not willing to really look at the context of situation and see people as human beings on every side of the fence then you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing others. It’s called projection when you cant’ see your own shadow and then point out everyone else’s.
Hi Mona, I’ve just wasted an enormous amount of my time, that I’m regretting now, because I doubt it even has any impact based on the hatred being spewed in the comments below.. but I replied to a number of very clear cases of anti-semitism parading around as ‘anti zionism’ or ‘legitimate criticsim of Israel’.. please take a little time, if you are interested in the kinds of comments that I see regularly that are virulently anti-semitic to take a look.. that’s all I can do to anwer your ‘challenge’. If you can’t see it there, then clearly there’s no place for a Jew like myself in this medium. As someone who is dedicated to liberal ideals, the hatred of ‘my people’ disguised as Israel hatred puts makes me an outcast in my own party, I think there is a hypocrisy at work here, and not mine. (is there ANY other country that people flat out ‘hate’? even with many bad actors and policies, rogue nations are never HATED like Israel.. that smacks of racism) I do believe Israeal has a right to exist, that it was founded legally, even if some of the actions at the time of it’s founding weren’t without legitimate criticism. There are some bad policies in effect and some bad actions and bad actors, but some of the actions Israel has been demonized and condemned for I can also see the necessity for, some of what is criticized for is unfounded and comes from willful ignorance. I do believe that most Jews, and most Israelis are also critical (legitimately) of many of Israel’s policies or how they may have been carried out .. but I guess, here having anything other than automatic condemnation and a wish to destroy Israel in its entirety makes me an ‘evil, piece of shit, scum’. I don’t see a lot of meaningful discussion here or anything that looks like a real dialogue or a willingness to do anything but create an atmosphere of hatred. I see alot of antisemitism here. Not a lot of legitimate criticism of Israel. There is legitimate criticism, but not here. Much of the argument and rhetoric here is disingenuous.
I’m done though, you’ve beaten me away, congratulations. I don’t think there’s any place for me here… I don’t relish hanging out where I’m clearly hated. Thanks for all the ‘peace love and understanding…’
” I’ve just wasted an enormous amount of my time, that I’m regretting now, because I doubt it even has any impact based on the hatred being spewed in the comments below”
You got it in one. Expecting anti-Semites to see reason is about as productive as expecting terrorist Hamas to understand that they will *never* prevail in military conflicts they instigate with Israel time and again.
There is no rationality there.
Unfortunately Jen, when it comes to the subject of antisemitism and bigotry, you are discussing the issue with someone who is not only insensitive to antisemitism, but has been at the forefront in promoting anti-Jewish bigotry on this site. Her post set the tone for others to follow. Good luck, but the deeper you get into Jewish issues with Mona, the more you will see I am right.
Mona, sometimes I feel there is no point arguing with many of the sympathizers of israel because they either claim the issue is so complex to be discussed, and partly because of this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896
Then there is the argument that both sides are responsible for the violence. But they forget that one side has been under oppression for the past 50 years and any sort of protest to bring normalcy to life is being seen as incitement of violence. Then there is the fear-mongering that Hamas is at the other side of the wall waiting with rockets to attack israelis as soon as israel grants them freedom. That may be partially true considering the fact that a lot of people have seen several of their close relatives killed just in the 3 or 4 big wars in just 10 years (again blamed on both sides equally but somehow the scale of attack and damage of the war is experienced mostly by just one side. How many palestinian lives can be taken to save one Israeli?). And even if hamas militants were waiting to “kill all the jews”, does anyone ever believe that it is really possible? I don’t respond or argue against them because this comment can make so little impact that I’m not convinced it is worth it.
But I took time to write this specific comment because I’ve seen so many people attack you viciously on different links and you are never deterred. I want to remind you that you have more supporters than those who respond to your messages. Next time I see someone smearing your comments with hatred or general senselessness, know that you have my support, and very highly probably, many others more.
Here’s the problem with your critique: When Corbyn stands up for Hamas and Hezbollah he does it purely on moral grounds. Other leaders, vile though they themselves may be, must deal with the scum of the earth because business must get done. It is the nature of governance, business and power. Corbyn as a useless, powerless backbencher had no obligation towards power politics but chose to engage as a matter of principle.
“[Corbyn, unlike} other leaders…must deal with the scum of the earth because business must get done.” – Casey
Here’s the problem with that critique: It claims, without evidence to support it, that morality cannot be as effective as, or better than, “governance, business and power” (whatever that is – sounds like amorality to me) in making the differences one wants in our world.
This idea seems synonymous with CraigSummers crackpot vision that the world is “just too complicated” to allow for the paradigm-shattering worldview that if we really want lasting results in our interpersonal and inter-political relationships, we must abandon the foundations on which we build our laws and societal guides in order to get there.
That’s not only an intellectually lazy cop-out, as in “these other ‘leaders’ can think better for us than we can (less than .00001% of humans on the planet, for fuck-sake) it’s also shows how morally bankrupt the individuals are that vomit this tripe.
For heavens sake, get some balls (with morals on top) and join the new “upstart” human race.
Because I, for one, am tired of the same old “business.”
“The Seven Social Sins are:
Wealth without work.
Pleasure without conscience.
Knowledge without character.
Commerce without morality.
Science without humanity.
Worship without sacrifice.
Politics without principle.
– Frederick Lewis Donaldson
Please feel free to indulge in any form of infantile utopianism you see fit. From Lenin to Mao to Pol Pot to L Ron Hubbard to Sung Myung Moon. All the same, all reliant on malcontent idiots like you who believe ideology xyz is the magic bullet. Even your friends at the Intercept are clever enough to never espouse ideology because they are not as stupid as you are. In fact, they are smart enough to let their readers lead the ideological charge. They are pure opportunistic cynics. What you and your ilk never seem to understand is that tens of thousands of years of history whose themes are unchanging means humanity itself is unchanging notwithstanding you knowing better. Congratulations on your superiority. Question though: In your new utopian paradise, what will you do with people like me? Yeah, thought so.
“feel free to indulge in any form of infantile utopianism you see fit. From Lenin to Mao to Pol Pot to L Ron Hubbard to Sung Myung Moon.” – Casey
Bizarre how you cite authoritarians and/or sociopaths and equate that with humanitarianism. Why is that, exactly?
As far as Sun Myung Moon, he seems out of place here – but it’s your list, not mine, so it’s up to you to justify him, as well.
What you present here as some kind of disjointed, cynical, dystopian worldview, the results of which will be nothing but the status quo or worse: where we need more wars, more militarized police, more covert ops to try to influence others against their will – in essence, the very world that most on your list actually worked towards.
So if this is your “how universal morality and humanitarianism really has screwed up the world” argument, you’ve missed the mark completely.
I didn’t present any world view at all. Come to think of it neither did you. Why is that? Do you even have a world view or is it just muddled solipsistic make-it-up-as-you-feel-it lyrics rather than political philosophy? Come on, commit to something. Anything.
“I didn’t present any world view at all.”
Yes you did. Yours was based on amorality and the staus quo (or worse).
“Come to think of it neither did you.”
Yes, I did. It was based on universal humanitarianism and morality; i.e., not the status quo.
And if you insist on using words like ‘solipsistic’ at least learn to use them correctly.
Just so there is no misunderstanding here, you, like CraigSummers, present what you think are complex ideas that other mere mortals simply are unable to grasp.
That position is the last straw of an ideology that’s based on selfishness and greed.
Good luck with that, as it’ll be the last straws that your ilk will ever grasp.
““Hell isn’t other people. Hell is yourself.” – Ludwig Wittgenstein
May all your idiocies be useful.
Well done the Intercept. Here is another “liason” that is of some interest http://www.topix.com/album/detail/buffalo-ny/1ORDRDLNRR0E9SA6
Paul Krugman’s column today, on Corbyn, with some striking observations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/14/opinion/paul-krugman-labours-dead-center.html?_r=0
Good to hear The Intercept commenting on important but parochial British politics. Congratulations to Pierre Omidyar/Glenn Greenwald, keep up the good work
A sidebar. It seems Australian has a new Liberal Party (i.e., their conservative one) leader, and a new PM.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/14/malcolm-turnbull-australia-prime-minister-journalist-banker-lawyer-spycatcher
He was the defending counsel in the Spycatcher case, it seems.
Also, it seems to represent a shift in the party’s political stance. Tony Abbott was against same-sex marriage and hostile to climate-change action. The new guy is not.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/14/australian-leader-tony-abbott-ousted-by-malcolm-turnbull-after-mps-vote
So it isn’t just UK Labour that is having a little course change, it seems.
There’s also this about the new PM.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/14/malcolm-turnbull-the-three-things-we-need-to-know-about-the-challenger
Its great to finally see a true and strong socialist as the leader of the Labour party and hopefully now Jeremy Corbyn will begin exposing and attacking the Austerity policies of the Conservatives which have resulted in savage cuts to social services. The Conservatives have continued to inflict severe financial hardship on the poorest and weakest members of the community and transferring wealth from the poor, disabled and working classes to the wealthy and elite. Lets hope that Jeremy Corbyn will also lead Labour to stop Fracking in the UK so that the environment can be protected. The NHS will be saved from back door privatisation, and hopefully when he becomes Prime Minister the Labour Government will bring about an end to the UKs involvement in wars for profit, and also produce a fairer society for all. Clearly the right wing are petrified of him, and the new wave of true socialism that is going to sweep the UK – if they weren’t so scared why the continual attacks, and orchestrated press campaign ?
Corbyn has been a long time advocate of the Palestinian cause, and he should be because it’s a popular issue and one his voters feel strongly about. Corbyn has also said he wants to scrap the monarchy but he won’t chase or push that issue unless there is support for it among voters. He wants Britain to stay in the EU, but has refused to rule out potentially leaving it, because of popular support for a British exit from the EU – this has already cost him with the resignation of Chuka Umunna MP from the frontbench over that issue. What it shows is that Corbyn is riding the crest of a wave of popular opinion, he’s simply saying what most people are thinking and setting aside less popular options. His policy proposals will be member led, driven from the ground up. In the end the press can say what they like about him but he always voices popular opinion. I think he will win 2020.
This is the British establishment media’s Chinese water torture approach to character assassination. A slow and constant, often subtle sometimes not, drip drip of spin and misinformation designed to poison the hearts and minds of voters while they don’t even notice it happening. The only way for Corbyn to avoid this is to pay lip service to the right wing establishment who own the media – which will never happen. Expect the zeal of the attacks to increase gradually overtime – as they attempt to put their lobster in a pot of cold water and put it on a low heat.
Dear Zionist vermin, your fate lies off the map and into the motherfucking sea. Get used to it.
Interesting how vermin such as myself don’t feel equally that Palestinians should be thrown into the sea… who is it here with the moral high-ground?? Why shouldn’t Israel fight with everything it has against people who would wish them dead and gone? Oh, we should just allow them a majority and to have the strategic land that would enable them to destroy us as they wish to.. seems reasonable.
No, you prefer to see Palestinians, shot, bombed, bulldozed, and burned, rather than thrown into the sea. Nothing of which to boast.
Donald, you’re the one that said very clearly that you hoped the Jews were thrown into the sea. I said no such thing about Palestinians, I also didn’t say I think they should be shot or bombed or any of the rest. but you decided that’s what I think because you are making assumptions about a whole people. You are the one guilty of that, not me.
You don’t have to say it; Israel does just that for you.
Israel slaughters Palestinians civilians at a rate of 250-300 to one.
Until Israel pulls back to the 1967 borders, Israel can expect no peace.
BDS all day every day.
and just because I believe that Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, doesn’t necessarily mean that I agree with all of it’s actions. Some are justified and some are not in my opinion. But again, your assumption of such a black/white world and making everybody either righteous or evil based on whether they agree with your views is actually the crux of the problem of middle east. It won’t be solved as long as people are unwilling to examine themselves; How comfortable for you to be able to make another ‘evil’ and yourself righteous. This is the only real evil.
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
You need to learn to read. My comment was directed at Zionists, not at Jews. Actually, you know that; you’re just a disingenuous piece of shit, equating criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism.
“Dear Zionist vermin, your fate lies off the map and into the motherfucking sea. Get used to it.” – seriously, I’m the the piece of shit here???
How is threatening a whole country of people with death a ‘criticism’ of Israel? No, I don’t believe its disingenuous to equate your comment with anti-semitism.. there is no difference in such a case between the Jews and Zionists when you speak of killing off an entire country that is filled with Jews. (Again – Mona, this would be another example of when someone is actually using the word “Zionist” to hide behind racist views)
… you come across as such a just and moral person. Very compassionate.
Palestinians would do well to divorce themselves from terrorist Hamas – it would certainly increase their life expectancy.
Well,the Zionists are so evil they don’t deserve a nation platform to spread their hatred of humankind.
And antisemitism is just a refection of their actions,and such alleged forgeries(imperfect copies)that describe their actual success in absconding with the world’s conscience,would lead one to say that they aint forgeries,but a roadmap to hell.
‘to spread their hatred of humankind’
Um, who is spouting hatred here? Seems more like you. Have you taken a look in the mirror lately?
Just like there is truly a racism that permeates our institutions in this country against Black people, a kind of racism that many don’t actually think they are guilty of, but nevertheless colors how they behave and the opinions they have about social issues.. in exactly the same way the Left Progressives have institutionalized anti-semitism.. they don’t see it, of course, they think it’s all valid criticism.. if you’re familiar with ‘white privilege’ and how that actually works, take a few minutes and actually reflect on the equivalent within the culture of the Left as a group (understanding the meaning of privilege to be what a majority group assumes as a culture, in relation to those who don’t come from the same experience), and what the Left has decided about certain behaviors without a willingness to understand the context of those behaviors.
Shorter Jen: people that criticize Israel are anti-Semites.
Nope, not what I’m saying. I’m saying that quite a lot of criticism of Israel is anti-semitic and those who are making those criticisms don’t think that they are. Israel isn’t perfect but making sweeping statements about Israel as if it’s the worst country, or that everything it does is evil or that the country itself is illegitimate.. those are some examples that I see pretty regularly. The assumption that anything Israel does is evil, often made without even thinking. Rerferring to ‘those Jews’ or ‘the Israelis’ as though it’s an automatic insult..
Spot on Jen. There are lots of criticisms of Israel that cross the line. Anti-Jewish bigotry is the norm on far left wing blogs and media cites – sometimes above the line, but mostly in the comment section below the line. The hard left is intolerant.
yeah.. it seems that most people on any ‘side’ are intolerant.. it’s all I see in comment sections, almost exclusively judgment and inability to see humanity. Just black/white thinking, no ability for meaningful discussion. People are just brainwashed in some direction or another. It’s like conceding any point at all is a sign of weakness rather than reason.
Jen, thanks for joining the discussion. Zionists are in short supply around here at TI — in fact we have only one, CraigSummers. I worry about Craig sometimes. In fact I suspect that Craig must get so lonely here for a kindred spirit sometimes that he’s tempted to have a conversation with himself. Fortunately that won’t be necessary, now that you’re here. Thanks again!
This is Hasbara:
Jews claim a right that exists in a theological text.
HAha
The fact that you state that “Jews claim” this.. makes you a racist, flat out. There may be some Jews that make claims similar to what you’ve ‘quoted’, but your quote is clearly from an anti Jewish source, and not from ‘The Jews’, which is intellectually dishonest at best. But to state that “Jews” as a whole, and as the claim for the state of Israel, are saying this is untrue and this is, in fact, exactly what an anti-semitic comment looks like. It’s not a legitimate criticism of Israel… please take note Mona.
OK. what defines a Jew? Being Israeli or believing in 5000 yr old fairy tales? Israeli Jews claim a biblical right to a land that is inhabited by Palestinians. Israeli Jews have been slaughtering Muslims in the occupied territories for decades; 2000+ last summer alone. Not even North Korea does that.
No, that smacks of the despicable actions of Israel.
Jen, you are defending a losing position; Israel is despised for cause; give back the stolen land to Palestine and things will improve.
How is the left hard,when it is for peace,love and understanding?
You pos never sleep,as you impugn the good people of this world with your slurs.
The hard left;sheesh,like people who support peace love and understanding are hard,especially compared to the actual hard scum of neocon evil?The Zioscum never stop squeaking their evil,and wonder why they are hated.
Dahoit – I remember when Craig was a fan:
https://vimeo.com/43308455
I don’t know how he grew up to be so hard and mean. Maybe the world kicked his ass too much?
someone that calls another a ‘pos’ doesn’t seem to me to be coming from ‘peace, love and understnding’ making others out to be ‘evil’ isn’t ‘understanding’.. so the believers in ‘peace, love and understanding’ are also ‘hating’ the the ‘Zioscum’?
Dude, you are projecting an ENORMOUS shadow.
Good luck to you Craig… there is such virulent hatred here that I am going to have to abandon you to it.. though I think it’s a losing proposition. No one here is interested in reason.
No – please don’t go – you only just got here! Please don’t go — we hardly knew ye!
.. and, making everything black/white is a setup for more of the same. (I say there is anti-semitism in a lot of criticism, and you say, ‘oh, you just think anything anyone says about the jews or israel is anti-semitic’ and in that way you nullify anything I say because now you’ve painted me as defensive and reactive.)
No. When you say there is anti-Semitism in a lot of criticism of Israel, but then fail to specify exactly which part of the criticism is anti-Semitic and which is not, it’s like by your vagueness and lack of precision, you cast anti-Semitic aspersion on all criticism of Israel. I suspect that’s not just laziness on your part — I think it’s deliberate.
Why don’t you try being precise for a change?
It’s a fairly large thing to tackle, don’t you think? To spell out the subtleties in all the arguments that are out there? You accusing me of deliberate ‘vagueness’ as some sort of evil plot is disingenuous at best. I’m asking people who claim to understand the idea of ‘privilege’ and institutionalized racism to look a little closer at a lot of assumptions and knee jerk beliefs. If that’s not something you can handle, the subtlety of reason, then I guess you are stuck in the black/white trap and can feel very justified in calling me evil.
I am 100% for an just,peaceful and respectful of their neighbors,Israel.Unfortunately that has been non existent for almost 70 years now,and its actions have created misery for its indigenous Palestinian population.its neighbors and US/re 9-11,Iraq,Afghanistan etc,all pushed,promoted and media enabled by the Zionists within.
And to me,Hezbollah, Hamas and the Taliban are the righteous native response to aggression,and Corbyn is absolutely correct in talking to them.Hallelujah for a smart guy.
In contrast to the imported thugs AlnUSra,AlCIAda,and IsUS,non Syrians doing the bidding of their patrons,the Saudis and gulf state whores of Zion and the stinking CIA.
How,if we are so antisemitic,could so many Jews have so much success in America?We have more Jews in power here,in business,govt.,judiciary, than in Israel.
Making sweeping generalizations.. another tactic for muddying the waters.. (are you seeing this one, Mona?)
How, if the Germans were so anti-semitic, were there so many affluent, successful and educated Jews in Germany in the 1930’s? I guess they just weren’t anti-semitic, but were responding to the evil people who were the Jews? (the jews are inherently evil, remember..) Racism, doesn’t always look like the holocaust, but if racism is present and the right political situation allows it it will easily slide into that, toward any group which people hold unrecognized bias.
Jews became successful despite anti-semitism in this country in the early and mid 1900’s. There were neighborhoods and clubs that didn’t allow Jews, there were quotas at the Universities limiting Jews.. the Jews became successful anyway, it didn’t mean there wasn’t anti-semitism or that it isn’t still around. Just like racism is still very prominent in this country despite many successful Black people and a Black president.
Your ‘question’ is either completely disingenuous or else completely blind.
(Lap dog) Doc
Mona would be proud of your persistence. Sometimes she does need some help. I’m fairly certain you provide little support for her though. Your posts on this thread are full of lies.
Thanks.
Geezzz….I thought it was one of Glenn’s best articles. Zionism is a political ideology..Judaism is about love and service. Keep up the good work Intercept.
sillyputty
“……I am absolutely committed to a meaningful peace process between Israelis and Palestinians and that has to be one based on the 1967 borders……”
Corbyn supports “key elements” of the BDS campaign and the right of return for the Palestinian refugees. Both of those campaigns would make Jewish people a minority in their own state. In effect (in a round about way), the goal is a Palestinian majority state. Either Corbyn is a complete fool or a liar. Additionally, the BDS promotes the same far left wing lies spouted by Mona for political reasons (Wikipedia):
“……The campaign was started on 9 July 2005 by 171 Palestinian non-governmental organizations in support of the Palestinian cause for boycott, divestment and international sanctions against Israel. Citing a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoing the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa,[3] the BDS campaign called for “various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law”.[4]…..”
All of the lip service given for the 2-state solution by the socialists is utter BS. In addition, according to an article in the Guardian (and the Guardian is a well known supporter of Palestinian rights; James Bloodworth: “Why is no one asking about Jeremy Corbyn’s worrying connections?”):
“Then there is Corbyn’s apparent proximity to antisemitism. While I genuinely believe that Corbyn does not have an antisemitic bone in his body, he does have a proclivity for sharing platforms with individuals who do; and his excuses for doing so do not stand up.
Take the fact that Corbyn once described it as his “honour and pleasure” to host “our friends” from Hamas and Hezbollah in parliament. According to Corbyn, he extended his invitation to the aforementioned groups – and spoke of them glowingly – because all sides need to be involved in the peace process.
So far, so reasonable. Yet negotiation is not on Hamas’s agenda, as Corbyn ought to know. In its charter Hamas states: “Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement… There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad.”
It isn’t a peaceful negotiated solution that Hamas wants; it’s the destruction of the Jews. Here is a direct quote from Hamas’s charter: “The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’” If this were not bad enough, Corbyn has also:
• Taken tea on the parliamentary terrace with Raed Salah, who he described as “a very honoured citizen” despite that fact that Salah was charged with inciting anti-Jewish racism and violence in January 2008 in Jerusalem and sentenced to eight months in prison. He was found by a British court judge to have used the “blood libel”, the medieval antisemitic canard that Jews use gentile blood for ritual purposes;
• Written a letter defending Stephen Sizer, the vicar disciplined by the Church of England for linking to an article on social media entitled 9/11: Israel Did It;
• Presented a call-in programme on Press TV, a propaganda channel of the Iranian government which was banned by Ofcom and which regularly hosts Holocaust deniers;
• Been accused of donating money to self-proclaimed Holocaust denier Paul Eisen, whose Deir Yassin Remembered group has been shunned by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, in the name of refusing to “turn a blind eye to antisemitism”. Corbyn has addressed that claim via his spokesman, who said that “Jeremy Corbyn’s office” had had no contact with Eisen and that Corbyn disassociated himself from his extreme views – a denial that seems neither forceful nor convincing.”
Of course, no one expects the Intercept to question Corbyn’s contacts and connections. Instead, Schwarz engages in what aboutery at its worst.
Thanks sillyputty
@CraigSummers –
Since repetition of an ideology is one of the things that Nigologists like best, I’ll quote what you actually claimed (above) and then repeat what Corbyn’s actual stances are, none of which you refute:
“…Corbyn…supports the single state solution…” – Dr. of Nigology, CraigSummers
Not true. Per Corbyn’s position statement of July, 2015:
Everything else you mentioned in your previous comments have been beside the point, and, as usual, they are only meant for you to, yet again, reinforce your intolerant ideology by projecting.
From a previous comment – because adherents to (and especially Doctors of) Nigology require it:
Cognitive Bias: Mind Projection Fallacy
(NOTE: This phenomenon, though labeled a fallacy, is better understood as a cognitive bias because it is a natural human tendency with no underlying attempt at a logical argument.)
Definition:
The mind projection fallacy is the assumption that our subjective judgments (or lack thereof) reflect intrinsic qualities of objects or reality in general.
Function:
The mind projection fallacy’s primary function is to reinforce our trust in our judgment and our values even in the absence of any justification for them. This sometimes serves to maintain tribal groups, which tend to share judgments and values, by strengthening resolve in the face of external challenges to those judgments and values.
Am I surprised by your constant projections and fallacies, CraigSummers? No. Because you repeat them. Over, and over, and over.
You just don’t seem to understand sillyputty. If you support the BDS campaign, you effectively support the single state solution. Sorry if that is hard for you to understand.
The single-state solution is the best one. Edward Said made a superb case for it.
Palestinians should have every right to reclaim what is there, in a nation with full and equal rights, and full right of return for the diaspora.
As a separate state, Palestine would be subject to endless, ruthless provocations and attacks by Israel.
All of the land belongs to Palestine. Every fucking inch of it. The Israelis can stay on as a minority if they like, as the white did in South Africa.
this isn’t my own thought; i came across it somewhere today:
when do the palestinians get to say ‘never again!’?
At least you are more honest than sillyputty about the goals of the BDS campaign – or just possibly less ignorant.
That’s my wish. I don’t claim to speak for BDS, and have no reason to believe they support a single state.
For the sake of propaganda, one could make the argument that the BDS campaign is ultimately a “one-state solution” because some people do (erroneously) claim it is solely contingent on following a decades old UN resolution repatriating Palestinians to lands that Israel holds by force, thus “taking away” the state of Israel as they know it – but that’s not what Corbyn’s statements say on Palestine – which is actually the point you made, and is actually the point that I took issue with.
In other words, rather than address a concern where you say that Corbyn supports the “one state solution” when he demonstrably did not take that explicit position, you amble off on another jaunt around the ‘cognitive-bias-projection-to-support-my-position’ position with nary an attempt at a logical argument.
Which brings us back to the cognitive-dissonance and bad-faith argument claims that I’ve repeatedly leveled at your comments on this subject.
Although I’ve not followed the Israel-Palestinian issue for the length of time as most others here, I do have access to the same data that you and others here do, and I simply reach different results than you do on this subject – it hardly makes it an un-understandable situation – even for me.
And perhaps because I’ve not been indoctrinated so long by any one side of this specific issue gives me more clarity with which to see it for what it is and what it is not – and also to why it frightens so many that hold power and land irrespective of the ideology or religions of those involved, and then to be puzzled as to why it frightens so many, like you, who it seems holds neither power or land over their other fellow humans on this planet.
Just exactly why is that, do you think?
In the end this, like most if not all human conflicts comes down to a basic human rights issue; different from any other only because of the numbers of people involved.
It’s still “only” all about personal things: personal self-determination, personal power, personal security, and personal responsibility for our own actions – whether it’s the responsibility we assume for ourselves as individuals when we face ourselves in the mirror in each morning, or whether it’s that personal responsibility that is writ-large by the actions of our social institutions. It’s still the same.
That’s one of the many reasons why it’s just not credible for you, a self-confessed torture-monger, to posit here, week after week, that it’s somehow OK to deny any group of humans the rights that all of us should have – simply in order to protect your pet ideologies from criticism based on the the fantasy world you try to present to us and not based on the actual world as it really exists; because the one that keep presenting is one that I’ve yet to find any evidence to support.
“The effort really to see and really to represent is no idle business in face of the constant force that makes for muddlement. The great thing is indeed that the muddled state too is one of the very sharpest of the realities, that it also has color and form and character, has often in fact a broad and rich comicality.” – Henry James
“……..In other words, rather than address a concern where you say that Corbyn supports the “one state solution” when he demonstrably did not take that explicit position, you amble off on another jaunt around the ‘cognitive-bias-projection-to-support-my-position’ position with nary an attempt at a logical argument……”
I HAVE been around this conflict a long time so I do understand what the goal of the BDS campaign is despite the organizers never explicitly saying they support the one state solution (for political reasons). Corbyn cannot have it both ways. You cannot say you support the two state solution while supporting a campaign which clearly would make Jews a minority in their own state. Corbyn could plead ignorance, but he also has been involved with many aspects of the conflict as I outlined in questions made by the Guardian about Corbyn’s associations. The alternative is that he knowingly lied about what he supports. A politician that lies? Never seen that before.
The IP conflict – like politics, in general – is not black and white. Welcome to the major leagues, sillyputty.
This appeal to your authority based simply on your having “been around this conflict a long time” carries no weight whatsoever to support any argument.
Human rights being equal (as should be the goal) any minority status based on being a Jew (or for any other criteria) is meaningless. Newsflash: Jews are people. Palestinians are people. See human rights argument from the previous post to un-muddle your “complex thoughts” on this matter.
This “argument from complexity” is a straw-man, and unnecessarily patronizing. Of course human conflicts are not black and white; and your inference here that I consider them to be so falls flat. As I noted in this thread and others, conflicts can, nonetheless, be broken down to basic human rights issues – meet the basic human rights of all and the conflict becomes uncomplicated.
Your arguments, and Israel’s, aren’t meant to address those basic human needs for all – just for a chosen few. That’s not really complex, it’s really selfish.
It’s still “only” all about personal things: personal self-determination, personal power, personal security, and personal responsibility for our own actions – whether it’s the responsibility we assume for ourselves as individuals when we face ourselves in the mirror in each morning, or whether it’s that personal responsibility that is writ-large by the actions of our social institutions.
As usual, you’ve dodged the initial question (Corbyn didn’t say what you said he did) and then you follow that lie with weak rationalizations (but that’s what Corbyn meant, I’m sure of it) and specious complaints about how complicated the world is over there, as if that lends credibility for allowing the ongoing violations of basic human rights, as well as international laws and agreements.
In other words – your arguments are a part of the problem, and not a part of the solution.
“Only fools and liars claim to know everything because the fool thinks all that he knows is everything and the liar knows there is no sufficient data to know everything” – Nyona Matende
CraigSummers in a nutshell
Labeling, pigeonholing and not arguing in good faith seems to right up some folks alley, doesn’t it.
Agreeing with someone that Mona (of all people) labeled an antisemite. Again not surprising for you sillyputty
“Agreeing with someone that Mona (of all people) labeled an antisemite. Again not surprising…” – CraigSummers
Not only are you left with nothing but ad hominems and wildly comical appeals to authority (Mona’s, in this case) to bolster your arguments, you apparently can’t read, either.
yeah that’s craigS.
He reminds me of Heru, a long lost climate change denier troll from Glenn’s earlier site.
He too, would make asinine statements perpetually and then claim everyone else was out of touch. He trumpets frequently his observations without a trace of efficacy.
Mona has labelled me a “moron”, an “actual antisemite” (as opposed to those other posers …), “scum”, as well as claiming I write as if I have “schizophrenia”. It’s really telling when CS repeats Mona’s label to you while ignoring me, as Gator did. ‘Taking the moral high ground’ with silent self-satisfaction as any good Hasbarat would.
By their behavior,they just make Israel look worse,so keep on keeping on,gang.
Anyone see the story about Joshua Ryne? Goldberg of Florida in the Independent yesterday?He posed as a jihadist on the web,and was the impetus for the Garland TX shootings.He also told jihadists how to make pressure cooker bombs,and advertised a Kansas 9-11 memorial get together as a target.And other provocative scumbag deeds as a good hasbarist for Israel.The FBI arrested him after the Australian security forces finally tagged him as a American posing as an Australian ex.Amnesty Int? employee gone IsUS.
Insidious evil bastards.
I did see the story at the DailyBeast:
The guy seems fairly disturbed.
“……As I noted in this thread and others, conflicts can, nonetheless, be broken down to basic human rights issues – meet the basic human rights of all and the conflict becomes uncomplicated…..”
Just shows your level of understanding of the IP conflict (“…..Although I’ve not followed the Israel-Palestinian issue for the length of time as most others here…..”).
“……Your arguments, and Israel’s, aren’t meant to address those basic human needs for all – just for a chosen few……”
Just highlights your simplistic approach to the IP conflict and your anti-Jewish bias i.e., opposition to Jewish self determination. This is a classic far left wing position on the conflict. You have told me nothing about yourself that I didn’t suspect a long time ago including your lack of knowledge about the conflict.
Thanks sillyputty.
Yeah. And when my car or computer breaks down, I list all of the things that could possibly be wrong and tackle all of those things first before making sure that the computer’s plugged in and the car has fucking gas in the tank.
No, wait. I can’t even do that, because it’s just too fucking complex even to think about fixing it! Nothing but excuses to maintain the status quo for as long as possible, for you and yours, it seems.
What a joke. In case you’re still completely confused, the above is an analogy, not a metaphor, so don’t try “complicating” your reply by confusing the fact that people aren’t computers or cars – because I don’t.
In other words, you start with what the problem really is at its most basic, human level and then tackle that first. In the case of Israel/Palestine, you meet all parties basic human needs first, then address all these other “complexities” after that basic tenet of fixing things – even humans, has been accomplished.
Can’t be done that way, you say? I say bullshit. It just hasn’t been really tried over there, now has it?
“The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can’t achieve it.” – Jordan Belfort
“…and your anti-Jewish bias i.e., opposition to Jewish self determination.” – CraigSummers
Name one instance where I have explicitly (i.e., not made up in your head) advocated against anyone’s right to self-determination.
See what I mean about claiming over and over that you’re not here to argue in good faith?
BDS is an arrow at the heart of Zionism,mammon.Hence the demonizing,obfuscation and outright lies as to its reason for being,the subjugation of Palestinians and injustice in the region.
The Zionists should be telling themselves;We asked for it,but instead say,why us?Such is hubris and overweening pride,it goeth before the fall.
CraigSummers post, lightly [edited] for accuracy:
“Doc
[It’s] good to [be a jingoist] lap dog working overtime in Mona’s absence, [so here’s another of my] fairly typical posts which twists and contorts into a bunch of lies, misinterpretations, and off topic comments (for example):
[It’s hypocritical, but I repeat over and over that in its charter,] “Hamas will never recognize the Jewish state” [while ignoring that Likud’s charter rejects recognition of a Palestinian state
In addition, [it’s dishonest for me to misinterpret the election of Hamas, and then only after I’m called on my falsehood claim that] it doesn’t matter how you interpret the election of Hamas. You can give [me] all the excuses in the world, but that one simple fact is irrefutable.
In addition, as you well know from your [slap-downs of] my posts on this thread, I support the two state solution and agree that most Palestinians support the two state solution. [okay, okay…that last is more dishonesty; it was only after my falsehoods about the Hamas election victory were exposed on this thread that I had to acknowledge majority Palestinian support for the two-state solution.
So let me try a straw man instead:] I never said they didn’t. Let me repeat [my straw man] again: I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN’T.
In addition, it is the socialist, Corbyn (the subject of this article) who supports the single state solution which is exactly why I said that no (right thinking) Jew would live under Palestinian rule. This [is] nothing whatsoever [like how I explained my initial] response, which [I’ve now] twisted [into something other than] what I said.
[My] irrational response calls Corbyn to task for his racist associations in Britain. [Obviously, my racist comments and name-calling (as when I refer to dark-skinned Muslims as “brownies”) identify [me] as another extreme [hypocrite].
I [find hypocrisy] is bliss Doc.
Thanks”
“After Paul Wolfowitz survived a rocket attack in Baghdad in 2003, Jumblatt stated: “We hope that next time the rockets will be more accurate and effective in getting rid of this virus and his like, who wreak corruption in Arab lands.”
Maybe he meant Zionist neocons? Because that would simply be accurate.
The renowned philosopher, Hypocrisies, has examined this penchant for telling it like you want it to be, and reaming those who choose not to follow your message. Hypocrisies also explained that using this much celebrated statecraft technique of Metaphysico-Theologico-Cosmolo-Nigology, was, in the end, counter-productive.
The Hypocritic Nigology (as this more specific branch of Hypocrisies’ Metaphysico-Theologico-Cosmolo-Nigology has come to be known) has many exemplars, and The Intercept is fortunate enough to have its own resident Nigologist: CraigSummers.
Not only has CraigSummers ideological rants become synonymous with Hypocrosies Hypocritic Nigology, CraigSummers has excelled at it.
As a matter of record, CraigSummers has officially become The Intercepts own ‘Dr. Nigology.’
Bolstered by centuries of observing the almost universally untrustworthy results of colonialism, imperialism, and other meddlings-about-in-business-not-your-own, Hypocrisies noted several things: that the meddling never originated at the level of the general citizenry – ever – and that, over time, this interfering in other countries business always resulted in the oppression of most of these same citizens who, once they found out the extent of their own countries extra-territorial meddling, rightfully objected to its continuance.
The philosopher Hypocrisies observations extend further, showing conclusively that not only did the majority of citizens not want to be interventionists in others affairs; they wanted also to be left alone in theirs.
However, once propagated by the main stream media and other mouth-pieces of the states’ propaganda machine, this nigolistic behavior can be virulent in its spread throughout much of the less learned citizenry; as evidenced here, in a post submitted by The Intercepts’ own Doctor of Nigology, CraigSummers.
Congratulations on your Doctorate of Nigology, CraigSummers. You’ve earned it.
correction to the correction: “lent support”.
also it’s a bit odd to call abbas a “palestinian leader” as opposed to a “vichy puppet” but whatever.
Doc
Good to see that Mona’s lap dog is working overtime in Mona’s absense. Fairly typical DocHollywood post which twist and contorts my post into a bunch of lies, misinterpretations and off topic comments (for example):
“……Hamas [was] elected freely and fairly in Gaza. [I claim that] shows a significant amount of Palestinian support for the anti-Semitic charter of Hamas as well as the goals of Hamas which includes never recognizing the state of Israel as a Jewish state i.e., destroying the Jewish state……”
[Except that it doesn’t. Contrary to the Hamas position, the majority of Palestinians supported the two-state solution. The Hamas victory was in spite of its charter and driven by a desire to end corruption in government. A majority of Palestinians opposed Hama’s position on Israel and believed it should recognize Israel’s right to exist. Putting aside that demonstration of ignorance and irrationality for the moment….”
Yes, Hamas was freely and fairly elected. No one can deny that. Yes, a significant portion of Palestinians voted for Hamas representatives (completely true). Hamas will never recognize the Jewish state on Islamic holy land – also completely true. Hamas has an antisemitic charter calling for the dissolution of the state of Israel – true again. I said nothing there that was false. In addition, it doesn’t matter how you interpret the election of Hamas, the Palestinians still voted a racist, homophobic, terrorist organization to power (again, completely true). You can give the Palestinians all the excuses in the world, but that one simple fact is irrefutable.
In addition, as you well know from your obsession with my posts on this thread (and I take that to be the ultimate compliment), I support the two state solution and agree that most Palestinians support the two state solution. I never said they didn’t. Let me repeat that so you don’t twist what I said again: I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN’T. In addition, it is the socialist, Corbyn (the subject of this article) who supports the single state solution which is exactly why I said that no (right thinking) Joo would live under Palestinian rule. That has nothing what so ever to do with your response which twisted what I said. You should have directed your response to Corbyn. Not me.
Your irrational response which never calls Corbyn to task for his racist associations in Britain just identifies YOU as another extreme left wing intolerant bigot – and there are many on this thread.
I guess ignorance is bliss Doc?
Thanks
speaking of “ignorance” i notice you left out how hamas got started in the first place. hint: the tactic of “divide and conquer” is often used by weak colonial powers.
“it is the socialist, Corbyn (the subject of this article) who supports the single state solution which is exactly why I said that…” – Dr. of Nigology, CraigSummers
Not true. Per Corbyn’s position statement of July, 2015:
In July 2015, Jeremy Corbyn, candidate for the Labour Party leadership, published this statement about the Palestinian people and their continuing oppression by the Israeli state.
Peace: Support a viable peace process between Israelis and Palestinians, based on internationally recognised (1967) borders.
Palestinian Statehood: Reaffirm the Labour party’s commitment to the recognition of a safe and viable Palestinian State alongside a safe and viable Israel.
Human Rights: Oppose violations of international human rights law, in particular the detention of children and detention of political prisoners without trial.
The Wall: Oppose the continued construction of the Separation Wall on Palestinian land, a direct contravention of international law.
The Blockade: End the siege on Gaza and ensure the free flow of aid and trade
Illegal Settlements: Call for a complete freeze on illegal settlement growth in order to save any hope for a viable two state solution, and end all trade and investment with illegal Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian territory.
David Cameron is not the head of state. The head of state is the Queen (who has also met some rather dodgy people.) David Cameron is the head of government.
Bill Jones
“……..Why should a bunch of Eastern Europeans who’d never been to Palestine in their lives think they had a right to steal it?……”
First of all, Joowish people immigrated peacefully to Palestine. They didn’t steal the land, but bought it from landowners. Many of the landowners were absentee. So it’s a fallacy that Joos stole the land. Second of all immigration was “strongly encouraged” by European (especially eastern European) antisemitism. Between 1917 and 1921, 50,000-250,000 Jews were murdered in Russia. This followed a history of antisemitism and pogroms in Europe (especially eastern Europe). As even you might know, 6,000,000 Jews were slaughtered during WWII which created sympathetic support for the creation of Israel in 1948.
Second of all, Jews had a very strong historical connection to Palestine so Palestine was the logical choice for Jewish people to create a home for the Joowish people. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism. It’s not the same as European colonization of the Americas and other parts of the world which was a colonial venture.
Third of all, the Palestinians have had ample opportunity to create a state of their own beginning with the 1947 UN resolution. Jordan occupied East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza until 1967 without offering the Palestinians a state. The Arabs attacked the Joowish state in 1967 and 1973 which began the occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza. The Palestinians (and the Middle East Arab leadership) have a long history of rejecting statehood.
Fourth of all, I have stated numerous times that I support the two state solution and Israel respecting the right of self determination of the Palestinians.
“……Bigotry about racist murderous land-thieves is to be lauded and encouraged……”
You are wrong. Bigotry should never be encouraged, but it is a credit to the far left that bigotry when it comes to Jews is OK. I have been saying that for years. That is what separates the extreme left from liberals. The hard left is intolerant.
Signed,
Bibi Netanyahu
I hope you’re being ironic:
First of all, Joowish people immigrated peacefully to Palestine. They didn’t steal the land, but bought it from landowners. Many of the landowners were absentee. So it’s a fallacy that Joos stole the land. – CraigSummers
A land without a people for a people without a land? C’mon Craig. That’s a bullshit myth. 750,000 people were evicted from their homes at gunpoint. Many of them were outright slaughtered. It was a bloodbath. Check your facts. Their descendants live in the Gaza ghetto and in little rapidly disappearing islands in the illegally occupied West Bank. Those are the hard facts.
You support a two state solution? Do you really think that’s still possible, at this point? Now that there’s well over half a million Israeli settlers in the occupied territories, Israeli politicians and ministers have finally abandoned the sham of negotiating towards a 2 state solution. They’ve stopped pretending: “This land is our land from river to sea. Judea and Samaria belong to us. All of it.” That’s what they’re saying now. I’m sure you know this.
They’ve been lying to us, and jerking us around for years and negotiating in bad faith and pretending they might be amenable to a Palestinian state. It was always a lie and a sham to buy enough time to import enough Jewish settlers into the territories to make a Palestinian state impossible. There’s never going to be a Palestinian state. But that was the plan all along. They played us like chumps.
I know how much it bugs you when people criticize Israel. You think it’s anti-Semitic. But if all that criticism ceased tomorrow, Israel would annex the remainder of the territories tomorrow. God only knows what they would do with the millions of Palestinians that still live there. If the eyes of the world weren’t fixed on them.
That criticism of Israel, which you find so abhorrent, isn’t going to go away. It will grow. And grow. Because ten years from now there will be nine million disenfranchised Palestinians living in Greater Israel, unable to vote in Israeli elections, still living under martial law. While their Jewish neighbors have civil laws and can vote in Israeli elections. What will become of those millions of people? What will Israel do with them? Israel looks bad enough to the world today, but imagine what it will look like in ten years. People call Israel a de facto apartheid state now, because it is. But ten years from now, it’s going to look SO much worse.
Do you think I’m waxing anti-Semitic to say so? I have said it before and I will say it again: Israel’s critics are the best friends Israel has right now. Israel’s apologists/enablers are its greatest threat. That’s YOU.
I’m astounded by your comments in this thread. Have I given you too much credit? I hope you’re just trolling, but even if you are, it’s obnoxious and disrespectful.
Dabney
“…….A land without a people for a people without a land? C’mon Craig. That’s a bullshit myth. 750,000 people were evicted from their homes at gunpoint. Many of them were outright slaughtered. It was a bloodbath. Check your facts. Their descendants live in the Gaza ghetto and in little rapidly disappearing islands in the illegally occupied West Bank. Those are the hard facts…..”
First of all, I was referring to how Eastern Europeans immigrated to Palestine in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I am well aware of the history of the conflict, the 750,000 Palestinians evicted and the modern (post 1967) settlements. I am also well aware that nearly one million Jews were also expelled or effectively forced into leaving the greater Middle East; that the Arab armies attacked Israel in 1948 with the intention of slaughtering the Jews (this directly lead to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians); and that the Arab armies attacked Israel in 1967 and 1973 with the same intention. The Palestinians also initiated the second Intifada on the heels of a Israeli offer of peace in 2000 leading to the death of 5500 people including 1000 Jews. This directly has led to the suffocating conditions today in Palestine. Finally, Jordan controlled East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza from 1948 to 1967 with no intention of forming a Palestinian state. Arab and Palestinian leadership has failed the Palestinian people, Dabney.
“…….You support a two state solution? Do you really think that’s still possible, at this point? Now that there’s well over half a million Israeli settlers in the occupied territories, Israeli politicians and ministers have finally abandoned the sham of negotiating towards a 2 state solution. They’ve stopped pretending: “This land is our land from river to sea. Judea and Samaria belong to us. All of it.” That’s what they’re saying now. I’m sure you know this…..”
No , you are actually the first person to notice. So thanks for updating my poor grasp of history. Of course, the two state is still possible, Dabney. The actual settlements rest on very little of the West Bank. Whether it will happen or not is a different question although I believe it will.
“……They’ve been lying to us, and jerking us around for years and negotiating in bad faith and pretending they might be amenable to a Palestinian state. It was always a lie and a sham to buy enough time to import enough Jewish settlers into the territories to make a Palestinian state impossible. There’s never going to be a Palestinian state. But that was the plan all along. They played us like chumps…….”
You mean the Israelis, or Hamas?
“…….I know how much it bugs you when people criticize Israel. You think it’s anti-Semitic….”
Pure BS, Dabney – and you know it.
“……..That criticism of Israel, which you find so abhorrent, isn’t going to go away. It will grow. And grow. Because ten years from now there will be nine million disenfranchised Palestinians living in Greater Israel, unable to vote in Israeli elections, still living under martial law. While their Jewish neighbors have civil laws and can vote in Israeli elections. What will become of those millions of people? What will Israel do with them? Israel looks bad enough to the world today, but imagine what it will look like in ten years. People call Israel a de facto apartheid state now, because it is. But ten years from now, it’s going to look SO much worse…….”
I have said on numerous occasions (which you selectively forget) that Israel is losing the international propaganda war. I think that sanctions are a distinct possibility in the future although the BDS campaign will never get off of the ground because fundamentally, it calls for a majority Palestinian state. World opinion will force some changes in the future in my opinion.
By the way, the reason Palestinians don’t vote in Israeli elections is because they are not Israelis. Does that make sense? Do you vote in the Mexican or Canadian elections? Remember that the Palestinians have elections of their own (sometimes) and this is how Hamas came to power.
Do you think I’m waxing anti-Semitic to say so? I have said it before and I will say it again: Israel’s critics are the best friends Israel has right now. Israel’s apologists/enablers are its greatest threat. That’s YOU.
I don’t buy that for a minute. I am insignificant to the IP conflict.
Ugh. I don’t want to respond but I can’t let it pass.
“By the way, the reason Palestinians don’t vote in Israeli elections is because they are not Israelis. Does that make sense? Do you vote in the Mexican or Canadian elections?” – CraigSummers
Craig, neither Canada or Mexico is illegally occupying the land I live in, or forcing me to live under martial law. That is a crappy comparison, it’s sloppy and that is what I mean by “disrespectful and obnoxious.” I know you’re not stupid enough to believe that analogy is valid, which is why I accuse you of trolling.
Be respectful.
CS is that stupid. The unintentional troll should be ignored whenever possible but I, too, have responded to his foolishness knowing full well CS cannot process information. He just regurgitates things that catch his attention; I bet he really lights-up when he gets a red cherry in his morning fruit cup snack.
Wow, having an understanding of things different than yours is ‘trolling.. obnoxious and disrespectful’.. so it’ s obnoxious now to believe that the Jewish State has a right to exist? If that’s not anti-semitic, then I don’t know what is. Certainly being open to criticism and not being knee-jerk in defense of Israel is important to the ongoing survival of the Jewish State, but saying Jews should embrace every criticism like it’s ‘Israel’s best friend’ is moronic. That’s akin to believing “Work will set you free’ when entering a concentration camp.
This is a pretty good argument for why you should only respond to specious arguments with other specious arguments.
Never repeat the charges against you. Every word you type is just more people that have stopped reading. When you repeat the charges against you as an introduction to your refutation, you might as well just reprint the story you are trying to discredit and be done with it.
Don’t reinforce the logic of the accusation by trying to find equivalents. If someone tells you that you smell, don’t say that someone else smells too, even if you mean smells worse–you have already conceded the point.
My takeaway from this story is that Corbyn is an anti-semite.
That picture tells the whole story. That man is guilty of so many many things.
Side note: I love that in the era of 60fps that every eight minutes you will express with your face the whole range of human emotion and narrative within the context of what we call “still photography.” Anger, pedo, guilt, shame, happy, orgasm, pain–all uncontrollably played out frame by frame. That we still attach any truth or narrative at all to still photography is a testament to the extreme dishonesty of all photographers.
A pattern can clearly be seen taking shape across some parts of the world, and that is people are starting to feel the austerity imposed upon them while the wealthy and well connected are spared.
One has to realize that we are all in this journey together and together we must act to make it as tolerable if not pleasant for all of us. We can only act if we throw all our concerns in the same bin and and push it together in forward progress.
What we see now is people pinched awake by austerity from all sides, and refusing to submit to the will of its proponents. The fear the awakening of the people strikes in the heart of power centers is in itself a great feat of the people as it compels the financial and corrupt strata elite to act even more erratically.
No matter what tactics they throw at people and those who represent them, the political and economic elite is digging itself a hole from which it can never emerge intact.
I admire those whose feet have and still are pounding the pavement for human decency and compassion!
I’m always amazed at supporters of the surviving Apartheid regime acting as if that is the moral high ground, and that those opposed to the racism, oppression, and deliberate massive abuse of human rights that is inherent to Apartheid (so much so that Apartheid is defined as a crime against humanity in the same international agreement that lays out the definition of what constitutes Apartheid, the ICSPCA, a definition that the Israeli refusal to recognize that the Refugees are part of the population of Israel meets, even without the admissions by Netanyahu that that refusal is motivated by racism) are obviously treading the moral low ground. Or, at least, I would be if I didn’t have the examples of the same sort of behaviours from supporters of the SA Apartheid regime, the supporters of America’s Segregation (and slavery, before that) policy, the supporters of the denial of rights to homosexuals, women, and, yes, Jews, to see the pattern. The more effort that a group puts into branding its opponents as holding the moral low ground, the more likely it is that those opponents actually have the high ground.
Very well laid out story – and with ironclad proof! Always a pleasure to read excellent writing!
” For its part, the UAE is (according to Anti-Defamation League polling) one of the ten most anti-Semitic countries on earth.”
Ah, yes, ADF, that impartial arbiter.
My own standard operating procedure is to watch what they do- not what they (are reported to) say.
When has the the UAE done anything to the detriment of the Israeli’s?
The reply lightly edited for accuracy
“Mr. Schwarz
[My] whole [reply] is an exercise in [double standards]. Any idiot understands that [what follows will be] a cesspool of [ignorance and] hatred. This has been documented in [my posts bemoaning] attacks by Islamists [while rationalizing the terrors unleashed by the US and its proxies] around the globe (e.g. Iraq, Argentina, Afghanistan, Libya, Indonesia, East Timor, Guatemala, Argentina, Nicaragua, etc.). [I] sit [outside the] fringe of [common decency when it comes] to the one [most powerful hegemonic] state in the world. This is a common position for the [jingoist].
Wanting to improve the lives of Palestinians is a good thing [to say], but [I prefer] throwing [reality] under the bus [and out the window. That way I can claim] ‘No Jew in their right mind would live in a Palestinian majority country considering the state of affairs in the Middle East in general’ [despite] the rise of [hundreds of Jewish settlements in] occupied territories peopled overwhelmingly by Palestinians.
Hamas [was] elected freely and fairly in Gaza. [I claim that] shows a significant amount of Palestinian support for the anti-Semitic charter of Hamas as well as the goals of Hamas which includes never recognizing the state of Israel as a Jewish state i.e., destroying the Jewish state.
[Except that it doesn’t. Contrary to the Hamas position, the majority of Palestinians supported the two-state solution. The Hamas victory was in spite of its charter and driven by a desire to end corruption in government. A majority of Palestinians opposed Hama’s position on Israel and believed it should recognize Israel’s right to exist. Putting aside that demonstration of ignorance and irrationality for the moment, I should at least apply the same standards equally to all and go on to claim that:
At least then I wouldn’t be making a claim that is simultaneously ignorant, irrational, and hypocritical. But I didn’t, because I am] carrying lots of [anti-Arab, anti-Palestinian] baggage.
[Are you] surprised by my position, Mr. Schwarz? No. There is nothing surprising about [me] disregarding [facts, logic, and the most basic principles of morality] in support of a [xenophobic] goal. If that means couching [my ignorance and] hatred in [hypocrisy] – so be it.”
Thanks, Doc. Let’s hope your truth medicine has the power to cure Mr. Summers et al.
“The most interesting part of the Corbyn fracas isn’t whether he’s “guilty” or not. It’s that the British media and politicians have created a guilt-by-association standard that appears to apply to Corbyn and Corbyn alone.”
Wrong, it applies to those who are not rabid supporters of the Shitty Little Country, and them alone.
“…….It applies to those who are not rabid supporters of the Shitty Little Country, and them alone…..”
Ha! It reminds me of what the French Ambassador once said:
“……Daniel Bernard, told his companions at a London dinner party that Israel is a “shitty little country,” “Why,” he asked, “should world be in danger of World the War Three because of those people [Joos]?” My addition in brackets
No country is despised more by the intolerant far left than that shitty little country.
More like “no country is tolerated less by the intolerant far left than that shitty little country.”
Re: Anti-Semitism
This a serious question, and I would really appreciate a response: When was the last time that the Jews did anything for anyone other than themselves?
“the Jews”
*sigh*
Well,he slipped,I guess?With so many Jews supporters of Israel and Zionism,one does mix them up occasionally.Should we call them Mennonites?
It is true there are Jews very much opposed to Israels actions,its just they are all peripheral players,on the web,but not the MSM.Such is the power of the Zionist moguls who own it,to Americas regret.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/all/index.html
all us suburban white post-christians agree you should read thru this list, for starters.
No one has ever said that Jews were dumb,just very clannish,and make up a lot of committees which give out prizes.Wasn’t Nobel Jewish?He gave us TNT!
The Nobel Prize has been diminished,and if one can’t say giving it to the warmonger Obomba wasn’t in error,or a Zionist misdirection,one isn’t keeping score correctly.
Post Christians?A new one.Atheist much?
Labour leadership: Jeremy Corbyn elected with huge mandate :
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-wins-labour-party-leadership-election
“An earlier version of this article stated that Kazakhstan’s dictator Nursultan Nazarbayev, rather than Uzbekistan’s dictator Islam Karimov, had boiled regime opponents alive.”
LOL.
Laughable “journalism”, even Herman Cain demonstrated better grasp of the issues in Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan.
Haven’t you EVER made a mistake or pasted a wrong link when commenting??? I would say, your comment is not in good spirit for TI. If a mistake is “laughable journalism”, I am sorry, imho, you have not experienced “laughable journalism”.
ps FYI,
karl
Sep. 12 2015, 12:57 p.m.
Thanks, I’ve corrected it — originally this had also mentioned Blair’s support for Karimov.
“your comment is not in good spirit for TI”
Guilty as charged. Showing “good spirit” to this scummy jihadi fellow traveler rag? You must be joking. I wouldn’t micturate on them if they were on fire.
I have never seen one poster here give any support to IsUS,AnUSrA or IsUS,other than as expected and logical blowback.They are all supported(quite illogically imo) by your Israel,and their puppets,US,the Saudis and the gulf states.
Serial liars lie serially.
And of course we know
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jul/23/iraq.suzannegoldenberg
The Jews in the media wouldn’t lie us into war……..
“The Jews in the media..” never a more blatantly anti-semitic comment.. because it’s always the “Jews” who are doing anything problematic. Good to point out ‘The Jews’.
There’s cetainly such a thing as justified criticism of Israeli policies, but a huge amount of what parades as ‘legitimate’ criticism is actually variations of this kind of b.s. It’s actually the same kind of anti-semitism that was used by Hitler, btw: ‘the Jews are too influential, blah blah.. ‘
To borrow and reform an old quote; The accusation of Anti-Semitism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Perhaps, but sometimes people actually are anti-Semitic, and then it becomes merely an appropriate description. Wouldn’t you agree, dear?
I find it amazing that a declared Trump supporter would finger-point about anti-Semitism or any other form of bigotry.
You do know that most of their cts website and their Twitter account of anti-Semitism are non-true stories don’t you? Why are you feeding the victim trolls. Take no notice of them that is the worst thing you can do take no notice of them. So take no notice of them. They are not happy unless they can create division and chaos and then claim to be the victim of all this chaos. Although the Labour leader with this: “we will keep the red flag flying here” will come to nothing just like Michael foot, come to nothing. They all must be so pleased to have finally killed off the slogan “Blairites” .
I was stunned to see how vitriolic Reuters got about this guy in their ‘news’ report ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/12/us-britain-politics-labour-idUSKCN0RC0A420150912 ). I don’t mean just how many critics they lined up, but phrases in their own voice like “government investment though money-printing”, “gift for the Conservative Party”, and of course the headline, “Marx admirer”, based on his much more tempered description as “essentially a fascinating figure who observed a great deal and from whom we can learn a great deal”. I mean, Reuters has been known for being so ‘objective’ they wouldn’t call September 11th hijackers terrorists, and here they read like Fox News.
Because Israel has labeled itself the Jewish State, criticism of Israel instantly becomes criticism of Jews thereby evoking the charge of antisemitism.
Since Wolfowitz is a prominent Israel-firster and when one considers the millions of bomblets and bullets expended on Lebanon by Israel (bought by US taxpayers), it is valid to call for the death of the hand of death in Lebanon. (A hand that kills, continually, day after day after day …)
Kerry and wife dining with Assad and his wife:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kerry+and+assad&view=detailv2&&id=22402EB7D1D2656BE2700DD6379B5D257BD2780E&selectedIndex=0&ccid=HNZwzx4T&simid=608033478521589216&thid=JN.r7MS2bNei643BW3CywBesw&ajaxhist=0
One of my personal favorites…Rumsfeld and Saddam:
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
The history of semitic people and culture goes back past
3000 B.C.
The Israeli claim that they are the only real semitic people is a
common misrepresentation which is actually an example of arrogance and
stupidity.
The earliest examples of semitic culture is generally accepted as
Mesopotamian, that is from within Iraq.
It spread to include much of Middle Eastern and
North African cultures.
To believe that Israeli self-centeredness is semitic is to willingly
dismiss the greater expanse of semitic cultures.
The Hebrews were and are only a small minority within the semitic cultures.
This whole misrepresentation of reality is typical of human
willful ignorance which flourishes today.
When the USA and its allies pridefully lied, viciously attacked, and murdered
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people in Iraq,
they became the most recent, gross example of institutionalized
anti-semitism and
every time Israel slaughters Palestinians
it is ant-semitic.
My apologies for the grammer goof and typo.
“My apologies for the grammer goof”
You are forgiven, dear.
As for the content of your illiterate, mindless rant, you are obviously far too dumb to understand that the term “Antisemitism” wasn’t constructed to mean “being antagonistic to Semites” – and so with a meaning dependent on the meaning of the term “Semite”, but was rather invented by 19th century German Jew-haters as a scientifically-sounding replacement for “Judenhass”, and therefore never meant and never could mean anything other than “hatred of Jews”, so I won’t bother explaining.
That’s funny
because the people who cling to and use the word most ardently are
the zionists.
So, you appear to be saying that zionists have a lot in common with
“19th century German Jew-haters.”
I couldn’t agree more.
thanks for pointing this out.
Good points except I would say Corbyn is an establishment politician even if his stances defy consensus. He’s been an MP for many years and is now leader of the Labour party. That’s a very senior position.
I still remember the anti-Buchanan AIPAC-fueled hysteria as he was running for US Prez. He’s the guy who dared to call the US Congress for what it was and still is: Israeli occupied territory.
I voted for Buchanan in2000 as the only American running.The others were obvious Ziowhores.I still think Al Gore lost because the idiot chose an Israeli mole as running mate,screw Florida wherever.
I say this as a lifelong democrat,although of course now the label is meaningless.
Basic reasons for which the US deep state will try to prevent the rise of the Left in Europe
http://bit.ly/1p2B7Dn
No doubt, but I’d bet they are even more concerned about the rise of the Left in the US.
Mr. Schwarz
This whole article is an exercise in what-aboutery. Any idiot understands that the whole Middle East is a cesspool of antisemitism and Jew hatred. This has been documented in polls and in attacks by Islamists around the globe that target Jews for murder (e.g. Iran in Argentina, Mumbai, Paris, Bulgaria etc.). Corbyn sits at the political fringe left and is clearly anti-Israel. He supports the dissolution of the one Jewish state in the world. This is a common position of the hard left.
“…….If he wants to have an impact on the world, and especially if he wants to improve the lives of Palestinians, he should be aware that the rules are different for anyone with his political positions, and act accordingly…….”
Wanting to improve the lives of Palestinians is a good thing, but throwing Jews under the bus to achieve that goal is not. No Jew in their right mind would live in a Palestinian majority country considering the state of affairs in the Middle East in general (the rise of the Islamists), and Palestine in particular was elected to run Palestinian affairs. Hamas, were elected freely and fairly in Gaza. That shows a significant amount of Palestinian support for the anti-Semitic charter of Hamas as well as the goals of Hamas which includes never recognizing the state of Israel as a Jewish state i.e., destroying the Jewish state.
Corbyn is carrying lots of anti-Israel, anti-Jewish baggage on his resume (CIFWatch):
This despite Corbyn’s unanswered questions, outlined by this week’s Jewish Chronicle, relating to Corbyn’s perceived support for Hamas and Hezbollah, for Holocaust denier Paul Eisen, for Reverend Stephen Sizer who has posted anti-Semitic links to Facebook, and for homophobic preacher Raed Salah who has been accused of the blood libel against Jews……Jewish Chronicle also questioned the banners at the Stop The War Coalition sponsored Al Quds Day rallies where Corbyn regularly speaks. Corbyn is also chair of the Stop The War Coalition. I have been to these racist rallies where Hezbollah flags are proudly waved and banners, which I have photographed, state: “Israel is a disease we are the cure” and “For world peace Israel must be destroyed”, “Israel your days are numbered”, “Death to Israel” and “The world stopped Nazism and Apartheid the world must stop Zionism”…..At the 2012 rally Corbyn called for the demographic destruction of Israel by demanding that all Palestinians should be allowed to return to Israel. In the same year I filmed him at a Palestine Solidarity Campaign conference at which he said: “(The Palestinians) intend, expect and are determined and will have the right of return to the land they were driven from in the first place……And last week’s Daily Mail covered my report of a meeting Corbyn sponsored at Parliament and which I attended last year. While Max Blumenthal, the main speaker, was running late audience members were invited to the platform to speak. James Thring was one of those. Thring, amongst other things, likes to compare “Palestine” to Auschwitz and Dachau……According to the Daily Mail Corbyn said of Thring: “From what I’ve recently discovered, he is not someone I would choose to have on a platform.”…..One has to ask Corbyn why is Thring so objectionable to him but Hamas and Hezbollah, who he describes as “friends” and whose whole raison d’etre is to murder [innocent] Jews, aren’t?……” My addition in brackets.
Am I surprised by your position on Corbyn, Mr. Schwarz? No. There is nothing surprising about the Intercept disregarding anti-Jewish bigotry in support of a political goal. If that means couching Jewish hatred in what-aboutery – so be it.
“…..and Palestine in particular was elected to run Palestinian affairs. Hamas, were elected freely and fairly in Gaza….”
Should read
“……and Palestine in particular where Hamas was elected to run Palestinian affairs. Hamas, were elected freely and fairly in Gaza….”
And the start of the CIFWatch quote begins at (missing the quote marks)
“…..This despite Corbyn’s unanswered questions….etc.
It is sad that criticism of Israeli govt policies is equated with anti-semitism. Because of this, real anti-emitism does not get the scrutiny and condemnation it deserves. Also, groups trying to fight for the rights of their people are “selectively” labelled “terrorist organisations” by the powerful and the designation changes according their convenience and self interest.
I suggest reading this article where fairly elected group was to be removed because their win was unexpected and “not preferred outcome” by the powerful.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/04/gaza200804
ps I do not know enough to say whether the new labour leader is against Jewish people…… I DO know, Jon is NOT against Jewish people.
“……I DO know, Jon is NOT against Jewish people…….”
Fine, but don’t disregard anti-Jewish bigotry whenever it’s politically expedient.
Bigotry of ANY KIND is never acceptable……
Sadly, because some use any kind of criticism of A group/state as bigotry for political expediency, “real bigoted sentiment” does not get the scrutiny and condemnation it deserves.
“…….Sadly, because some use any kind of criticism of A group/state as bigotry for political expediency, “real bigoted sentiment” does not get the scrutiny and condemnation it deserves…..”
I think I can agree with that statement to a certain extent because there can be a fine line between the two. However, there can also be a profound difference between criticism of the state of Israel and anti Jewish statements – and that line is often crossed by people on the far right and the far left. For example, Jews control US foreign policy clearly crosses that line.
You appear to be very careful and fair in your criticism in my opinion.
Thanks.
Bollocks.
Bigotry about racist murderous land-thieves is to be lauded and encouraged.
All I can say is, I beg to differ…. bigotry of any kind is wrong in my personal opinion……
Pour on the bile!
Enough with mealy mouthed BS.
or when it’s spot on.
‘……don’t disregard anti-Jewish bigotry whenever it’s politically expedient.
or when it’s spot on……”
Well said nuf. Can you explain to me when anti Jewish bigotry (Jew hatred) is spot on?
It is easy to explain; it is never not spot on.
Jews have been killing Muslims at a rate of 100 to one or greater since 1948.
BDS. Tell your friends.
Well, at least you are admitting you are an anti-semite. Can’t have a meaningful argument with someone so committed to not seeing anything but what they want to believe.
“No Jew in their right mind would live in a Palestinian majority country”
Makes one wonder, why did they show up there and stole the place from under the Palis in the first place? Hmm… is there ANY reason the Palis don’t exactly love the Jews, especially those of the Zionazi kind?
Could it have something to do with the Land of Israel? It makes perfect sense to have chosen Palestine/Jerusalem – the most holy site in Judaism.
It makes sense to Zionazis and deranged Evangelicals, I’m sure.
Evangelicals had nothing to do with choosing Palestine. This was a decision made by Zionist Jews in the 1800s. You can refer to Zionists as Nazis all you want. That’s entirely up to you. In fact, that designation is very common for the fascist left which you are no doubt a card carrying member.
Thanks.
“This was a decision made by Zionist Jews in the 1800s”
Ahhh… the arrogance. No need to consult with the locals, right? Can you imagine if Dr. Herzog or whatever his name called up the local primitives and told them: hey, primitives, we are going to make the desert bloom and create a state for the Jews from all over so… START PACKING ALREADY!!!!
The Crazies!
I’ll say this for Corbyn;The first smart looking pol in awhile,Bliar looked like the idiot he was,while Cameron is obviously a slow learner.or most likely,never will.Here in America,the shrub looked simian,and Obomba eh,he proved mediocre at best.
Why should a bunch of Eastern Europeans who’d never been to Palestine in their lives think they had a right to steal it?
Enjoy your little mini-reign of terror while it lasts. Until Mona gets her new computer.
I don’t care about Mona one way or another. If I was discouraged by Mona even in the slightest, I wouldn’t post here at all.
Thanks.
Hey, see humanity can be universal,and agree occasionally.I always frowned teachers’ pets.
“e.g. Iran in Argentina”
Don’t know about the others but the Iran bit is nonsense:
https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/46996
http://www.thenation.com/article/bushs-iranargentina-terror-frame/
Don’t be so sure about that. According to the NYT:
“…..From the moment 10 years ago when he was assigned to investigate the 1994 suicide bombing of a Jewish center here that left 85 people dead, Mr. Nisman, an even-keeled lawyer, became entangled in a labyrinthine plot that he traced to Iran and its militant Lebanese ally, Hezbollah……..But it was only in the past week that Mr. Nisman, 51, leveled explosive accusations that top Argentine officials, including President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, had conspired with Iran to cover up responsibility for the bombing as part of a deal that would supply Iranian oil to Argentina. Now, the mystery has deepened with the discovery of Mr. Nisman’s body on Sunday — the day before he was to testify before lawmakers about those accusations……”
Cognitive Bias: Mind Projection Fallacy
(NOTE: This phenomenon, though labeled a fallacy, is better understood as a cognitive bias because it is a natural human tendency with no underlying attempt at a logical argument.)
Definition:
The mind projection fallacy is the assumption that our subjective judgments (or lack thereof) reflect intrinsic qualities of objects or reality in general.
Function:
The mind projection fallacy’s primary function is to reinforce our trust in our judgment and our values even in the absence of any justification for them. This sometimes serves to maintain tribal groups, which tend to share judgments and values, by strengthening resolve in the face of external challenges to those judgments and values.
Am I surprised by your constant projections and fallacies, CraigSummers? No. Because you repeat them. Over, and over, and over.
Big gaff about Kazakhstan’s President boiling his opposition alive. That was the Uzbek president. I suggest you edit your essay as that gaff lessens your authoritativeness.
I caught that too. A simple mistake that I don’t think destroys the authors premise.
But here is a photo of them together, so they’re obviously both equally guilty.
Thanks, I’ve corrected it — originally this had also mentioned Blair’s support for Karimov.
The creation and maintenance of the Israeli state is one of the most
anti-semitic programs the world has ever seen.
Zionism is little different than Sunni fundamentalism
(or any other perverse religious state – including capitalism)
with dreams of global domination and separation.
They all lead to horrifying abuses based on bogus notions of superiority
which reduces almost everyone involved
into a mentally fenced-in mix of blindness, arrogance, and stupidity
wherein they think they are “exceptional.”
The Intercept will continue to draw these kinds of ignorant posters – like rats.
The photos undermine the premise of the article since the paired people seem to be excellent matches for one another. Guilt-by-Association is a logical fallacy only when the association is irrelevant to the issue in question. Most people know you can be judged by your friends, although you can be judged even more accurately by your enemies.
Corbyn benefitted enormously from the attacks by Tony Blair, since in Britain that’s probably the best endorsement any politician could receive.
So my rule of thumb is to judge any politician first by their enemies, second by their friends and only third by what they say. What they do, of course, is completely irrelevant, since no politician actually has the power to change the system.
…yeah…Corbyn…now that he has been elected it will soon change from ?
”yes we can”
to
”yes…we should have done but…”
like the Obama of old…
just wait…
Sorry Jon,put me in with the deniers,as I believe nothing anymore from serial liars.
No Hitler,no Israel.
bottom line.
“…….Sorry Jon,put me in with the deniers…..”
Yep, just another Jewish conspiracy theory.