In his excellent article on the unique guilt-by-association standard being imposed on newly elected Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, my colleague Jon Schwarz references a passage from a 2013 Washington Post article that I want to highlight because of how illuminating it is. That Post article describes the Obama administration’s growing alliance with human-rights-abusing regimes in Africa, which allow the U.S. to expand its drone operations there, and contains this unusually blunt admission from a “senior U.S. official” (emphasis added):
Human-rights groups have also accused the U.S. government of holding its tongue about political repression in Ethiopia, another key security partner in East Africa.
“The countries that cooperate with us get at least a free pass,” acknowledged a senior U.S. official who specializes in Africa but spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid retribution. “Whereas other countries that don’t cooperate, we ream them as best we can.”
The Post article went on to note that the Bush administration “took the same approach,” and that while “many U.S. diplomats and human-rights groups had hoped Obama would shift his emphasis in Africa from security to democracy … that has not happened.” In fact, “‘There’s pretty much been no change at all,’ the official said. ‘In the end, it was an almost seamless transition from Bush to Obama.'”
The italicized portion of the quote explains the crux of feigned U.S. concerns for human rights abuses: It’s never genuine, never anything more than a weapon cynically exploited to advance U.S. interests. The U.S. loves human-rights-abusing regimes and always has, provided they “cooperate”: meaning, honor U.S. dictates. On human rights abuses, such compliant regimes “get at least a free pass”: at least, meaning either passive acquiescence or active support. The only time the U.S. government pretends to care in the slightest about human rights abuses is when they’re carried out by “countries that don’t cooperate,” in which case those flamboyant objections to abuses are used by U.S. officials as punishment for disobedience: to “ream them as best we can.”
This is not remotely new, of course, nor should it be even slightly surprising for people who pay minimal attention to the role of the U.S. government in the world. But this nonetheless highlights what baffles me most about U.S. political discourse: how — whenever it’s time to introduce the next “humanitarian war” or other forms of attack against the latest Evil Dictator or Terrorist Group of the Moment — so many otherwise intelligent and well-reasoning people are willing to believe that the U.S. government is motivated by opposition to human rights abuses and oppression.
Support for human rights abuses and tyranny — not opposition to it — is a staple of U.S. foreign policy. Standing alone: how can anyone believe that the same government that lavishes the Saudi regime with arms, surveillance capabilities and intelligence is waging war or using other forms of violence in order to stop human rights abuses? (Read this informative New York Times article today describing the central role played by the U.S. government in the ongoing, truly heinous slaughter of Yemeni civilians by its close Saudi ally, consistent with the months of Yemen-based reporting done by The Intercept on these atrocities.)
If one wants to spout the Kissingerian “realist” view that only U.S. interests matter and human rights abuses are irrelevant, then fine: One can make that argument cogently and honestly if amorally. But to take seriously U.S. rhetoric on human rights abuses and freedom — we’re going to war against or otherwise sternly opposing these monstrous human-rights abusers — is totally mystifying in light of U.S. actions. The next time you’re tempted to do that, just read what U.S. officials, in their rare, candid moments, themselves say about how they cynically concoct and exploit human rights concerns.
Aside from accuracy for its own sake, this most matters because of what it means for proposed American “humanitarian wars.” Even if you accept the extremely dubious proposition that the U.S. could manipulate political outcomes for the better with bombs and military force in complex, faraway countries, it utterly lacks the desire, the will, to do that; it wants only to ensure those outcomes serve its interests, which more often than not means supporting despotism or, at best, chaos and disorder.
That’s why the feigned U.S. concern for humanitarianism in Libya — we are so very eager to protect the Libyan People from abuse and tyranny and bring them freedom –– extended only to dropping bombs on that country and completely disappeared the moment that fun, glorious part was over. Even though it’s self-satisfying to believe your government is some sort of crusader for human rights and freedom, it’s not asking too much to just be as honest about U.S. exploitation of human rights concerns as this “senior U.S. official” was when talking to the Washington Post.
Photo: Shiite rebels known as Houthis, gather at houses destroyed by a Saudi-led airstrike in Sanaa, Yemen, July 3, 2015
Why two paragraphs when one word works? Hypocrisy
“whenever it’s time to introduce the next “humanitarian war” or other forms of attack against the latest Evil Dictator or Terrorist Group of the Moment — so many otherwise intelligent and well-reasoning people are willing to believe that the U.S. government is motivated by opposition to human rights abuses and oppression.”
Because its an aspect of American culture and words don’t mean what they used to?
A dominant message out there explaining our very homeless foreign and domestic policies seems to be war is all things including spiritual reality in the 21st century; on the ground concerns about quality of life and human rights will get you killed. As an advertisement, humanitarian wars means we want to help. But if a person(s) is in need of help they are by definition, a loser. How did they become a loser? By having the wrong family or living under the wrong system of government, by living the wrong way! They could’ve had incorrect thoughts, incorrect belief systems and didn’t experience punishing consequences. They probably hate America and white people or success and consequently deserve what they get.
Americans still want to be superheroes but how do you help someone, a people like that? Diplomacy? Government assistance? I think not. You punish them or help them punish each other. You make humanitarian war, not welfare!
If that person(s) that needs help dies or suffers too much in the process, don’t blame the people doing the necessary disciplining; blame the government/religions, the choices, the way they were raised: blame liberals that created this problem by trying to make life too easy for all of the sinners out there.
We have windows to conflicts through our phone and tv. It’s a movie where you’re being told you get to choose how it ends. If you don’t do anything you are empowering these events to occur somehow.
Never mind your lack of power on everything else in your life, but if you support Intervention, incarceration, torture you’re a doer; someone who is willing to make the tough decisions and help people who are in need. You will help America be safe. All of the antiwar folks out there are impractical and probably even want America to crumble. (How do you know for sure? Look at how they dress and what they eat. They are the reason you’re on welfare, and why your marriage is failing btw.)
America is great because freedom of speech.. but if you don’t agree with how law enforcement and the military wants to help these people then one day the trouble will move from your phone to knocking on your door. Are you going to endanger your family because you disagree with how America is trying to fix mistakes made when people trying to be nice were in charge?
You want to understand why some people are angry or need help? You want to try to address the source of the problem? You want to try some time consuming diplomacy? Watch your other cheek get blown off in the process then, this is war!!
I think people would take moral pronouncements more seriously if the pronouncer actually took some kind of personal responsibility for getting things wrong.
Morality has become a synonym for “oops”.
Being good means never taking responsibility for your actions because good intent is all that matters. Good intent is god’s pre-forgiveness for things so terrible that evil men have hung themselves for less.
Good intent is a suicide note without the suicide.
Doesn’t it seem like the comments section is becoming more like a chat room for any topic one wishes?
Rog..
“Have you ever ridden in a cab while the driver is high on angel dust? Or, flown on a commercial airliner when the pilot is cranked up on amphetamines after a three day bender? Or traveled on a bus through the Kyber Pass with a driver who is high on hashish? Have you ever done an eight ball and then driven a semi-tractor trailer? Or, pimped out your significant other to cop a dime bag? Or, sexually debased yourself to feed your heroin habit? All of these examples are far more typical then that which you chose to cite. Why is that exactly?”
A Karl ‘That’s The Ticket’ Jung Production
ht – his royal bah’ness
A Karl Jung Production? What exactly is that supposed to mean?
Joni Mitchell comment
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
With a chat room, a boutique
And a swinging hot SPOT
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
They took all the comments
And put them in a comment museum
Then they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see ’em
Don’t it always seem to go,
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
Hey commenter, commenter
Put away that comment now
Give me spots on my input
But LEAVE me the birds and the bees
Please!
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til its gone
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Come and took away my old thread
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
I said
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
They paved comments
And put up a parking lot
Government officials, leaders whatever, in all countries seem stuck in the small brain era of human development, decades behind the now and blind to the future and I wonder how in the hell did they get the power positions.
Food for thought: “Deterring Democracy” by Chomsky, which explores the differences between the humanitarian rhetoric and imperialistic reality of United States foreign policy and how it affects various countries around the world.
But, OK so we know the how and the why and the who and who not, but what is the point of it all. It all seems so senseless and self-destructive, such a waste of a life and energy, such a retrograde step for humanity. It’s as if a few people just go around switching off or killing off the vast potential of humanity when it suits them – it’s really a kind of insanity when you think about it. What are they so afraid of? What are we so afraid of that we agree to the suffering and killing of others with impunity.
Noam Chomsky ought to be required reading for ALL school classes, I didn’t realize that a third of my education was government propaganda used to help fight the cold war, until I started to try to find out why most of the world doesn’t like the US. The US govt doesn’t care about human rights or any other rights for that matter, only the interests of the military complex in this nation. I hope people will start to see this sometime even though it won’t really matter anyway.
I honestly do not understand why the phrase “US interests” creeps into these dicussions. It has *never* been about the interests of the United States or its citizens. It has always been about the interests of tiny groups of powerful people, and that’s all.
Mr. Greenwald
This is highly unusual for you – taking one statement by an American government official and making a simplistic conclusion based on that statement. Fortunately, geopolitics and national interests are not that simple and there is plenty of evidence to suggest you are wrong.
1. To say that the US foreign policy has nothing to do with human rights is false, but even if you were completely right, national interests and human rights are not mutually exclusive. For example, one can argue that the US removed Saddam Hussein from Kuwait to protect their oil interests in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, but that by no means excludes human rights from the First Gulf War. The people in Kuwait were much better off because of the actions of the coalition – especially the US. The same can be argued for supporting the removal of the Soviet dogs from Afghanistan in the 1980s. US foresight might have helped cook the Soviet economy, but the Soviets had a dismal record of promoting democracy (like never). Certainly, the people in the Muslim majority state of Kosovo benefited from US actions against the Serbs where a bloodbath might have resulted. Indeed, the Chinese were deterred from attacking Taiwan by the US. Taiwan became a democracy and a powerful economy. Another potential bloodbath was avoided. South Korea also was given the opportunity to democratize because of (primarily) US actions during the Korean war – all for cheap T-shirts. Of course all of western Europe democratized as well (as opposed to eastern Europe under Soviet control). So you made an erroneous conclusion based on one statement which just reinforced your obsessive tunnel vision of American policies.
2. I am also extremely curious what you think the US had in mind by bombing Libya if not for humanitarian reasons in support of the Arab Spring. What did the US hope to gain? France and Great Britain were gun ho to intervene in the face of a civilian slaughter in Libya like what has occurred more recently in Syria. A resolution passed in the UN backing the intervention in Libya because of the threat of a civilian slaughter – again in support of the Arab Spring. The problems in Syria and Libya developed because the people wanted more political rights i.e., they challenged the status quo in the Middle East. What is happening in Syria today could also have happened in Libya. No one can deny that. People challenging Ghaddafi faced a real possibility of a slaughter just as they did with Al-Assad of Syria. Libya was already a large supplier of oil to Europe where about 85% of the Libyan production went to the EU so it was not like the participants had anything to gain in oil. So, Mr. Greenwald, why did the US (along with several other countries) intervene if not for humanitarian reasons? I would think you would have the guts to answer that question since you advance a simplistic narrative of US policies.
“…….That’s why the feigned U.S. concern for humanitarianism in Libya — we are so very eager to protect the Libyan People from abuse and tyranny and bring them freedom –– extended only to dropping bombs on that country and completely disappeared the moment that fun, glorious part was over……”
This is classic far left, anti-American rhetoric which falsely implies you would have supported the alternative – occupation. The US was also criticized for “disappearing” from Afghanistan after the Soviets were ousted in the late 1980s. Had the US occupied Afghanistan to stabilize that country, the US would have been accused by extremists of promoting their own interests – like the oil pipeline or mineral resources. But when the US left, they were accused of allowing Afghanistan to fall into chaos. No matter what the US did after helping to free the people of Afghanistan from Soviet control, they were damned.
And what if the US didn’t disappear and instead occupied Libya to stabilize the country? Certainly, just like in Iraq, a low grade civil war would have ensued with ISIS, al-Qaeda and other freedom loving Islamic militants (terrorists) taking up the fight (just like what has actually happened in Libya). You (and your extremists left wing friends) would have accused the US of occupying Libya for the resources and so on. The US was damned if they did and damned if they didn’t in Libya and Afghanistan (1980s). Either way, you would criticize US policy (like in Iraq and Afghanistan). So don’t imply that by criticizing the US for “disappearing” from Libya, you might have supported the alternative. That is total unequivocal bullshit.
Come on, Craig. That’s Geopolitics 101. Libya was pretty closed off to US corporations. I understand Gaddafi was willing to open up Libya, but he’d been dragging his feet. (I heard Tariq Ali make that claim in a speech.) There’s no question Libya was in the list of candidates for regime change. Just take a look at Wesley Clark’s list of 7 countries. All the countries you’d expect to be there are there.
Additionally, whenever the US has an opportunity to make an example out of a country, it does. In this case: See what happens if you try to be independent?
You’re right that human rights play a role. If the US government can exploit human rights to get people to support what they are doing, they’ll jump at the chance. There’s no question about it. But the US is not unique in that regard.
Jose
That is unconvincing. Wesley Clark disclosed his list in 1999 before Libya agreed to give up his nuclear weapons program in 2003 (after 911). Yea, no doubt, Tariq did make that claim. Of course, he probably didn’t qualify the statement.
The US normalized relations with Libya and rescinded the designation of Libya as a state sponsor of terror in 2006. Trade increased after 2003 in which the trade between Libya and the US was essentially zero. In 2010, the US exported $665 million in goods while importing over two billion dollars in goods from Libya.
Did you ever check your grade in geopolitics 101?
No country ever goes to war for humanitarian reasons, any more than any politician ever resigns to spend more time with their family.
That said, it was fun to see France first in line to attack Libya. They obviously learned their lesson from Iraq, where they were shut out from future oil contracts for their refusal to join the coalition of the willing. Total Petroleum wanted to be in position to snap up Libyan oil assets at fire sale prices. However, it’s still up in the air, so only time will tell if they made a wise choice.
Europe already received 75% of Libya’s oil exports in 2010. In addition, all Libyan natural gas goes to Europe (28% to Italy). Europe wasn’t going to do much better than that.
But it also means they couldn’t afford to sit back and let the US engineer a regime change or they’d risk losing their stake. They saw which way the wind was blowing and leapt into the fray. The new US technique of leading from behind (“either you do it, or we will”) seemed to work well in this case.
First off, Craig, I think we can agree that the US and Libya were nowhere close to being allies. The Cablegate archive paints a picture of a distrustful relationship in various areas. Libya, under Gaddafi, had a long history of resource nationalism (07TRIPOLI967_a), which is arguably the primary threat to US imperialism. Libya kept close tabs on US diplomats traveling in Libya (08TRIPOLI588_a). Libya was developing close relationships with independent nationalist countries in Latin America, like Bolivia (08LAPAZ2055_a), which was also approaching Iran (08LAPAZ1749_a).
So, yes, the traditional imperial powers (the US, France and Britain) took advantage of the Arab Spring, and in the process sucked the life out of it.
Thanks Jose
“……So, yes, the traditional imperial powers (the US, France and Britain) took advantage of the Arab Spring, and in the process sucked the life out of it…..”
That’s the problem Jose. There is nothing you have presented which even remotely suggest that the US, France and Great Britain “took advantage” of the Arab Spring to bomb Gaddafi. Of course, there was distrust between the US and Libya. None the less, relations were more or less normalized after Gaddafi decided to come clean with his nuclear program, and trade between the countries increased as I pointed out above.
To suggest that the US, France and Great Britain sucked the life out of the Arab Spring by bombing Libya is ridiculous. In Iran, the Green Revolution was destroyed by the Iranian regime without any US assistance. In Syria, Assad chose to crush the reformists leading to the largest humanitarian crisis in the world today (perpetually ignored by Greenwald) with Russian and Iranian complicity. Egypt and Bahrain were also focal points for setting back the Arab Spring (with US complicity).
The Middle East cannot be simplified to the level of Greenwald e.g. every ME problem is the fault of the US and Israel. There is also the regional rivalry between Saudi Arabia and Iran which has complicated the picture making the Arab Spring far more difficult to succeed.
You might be able to argue that the bombing failed to bring democracy to Libya, but you have no idea what might have resulted had the US, France and Great Britain done nothing – and it could have been much worse (as in Syria).
It’s self-evident. Those operations are best carried out with some support, and Gaddafi’s actions provided an opportunity. There was support for intervention even from western liberals who still have illusions about how such matters work. NATO wasted no time.
That’s not the argument. It’s possible to analyze the behavior of each one of the players. The US is the key one, because it’s the primary imperial power in the world, and its actions have repercussions globally, not only in the Middle East. My view is that US behavior is consistent, coherent and fairly predictable, if you grasp what actually makes it tick.
It’s unreasonable to entertain the idea that the US government cares one bit about the human rights of foreign nationals. It’s easy to show that the US values very minor policy goals over the lives of thousands. If we were talking about virtually any other country, analyzing their actions purely in terms of their interests would be perfectly fine, wouldn’t it?
Are you trying to pretend there’s been no intervention in Syria? I could just as easily wonder what might have happened or not happened in Syria if not for foreign meddling. BTW, the US has been planning to destabilize Syria for a while.
I found a more extended analysis by Tariq Ali:
Jose
“……And suddenly he becomes a monster because there’s an uprising against him? Give me a break. Essentially, I think they took Libya to win it as a market for investments, for the oil. Libyan oil is of very good quality, produced at very cheap cost—wreck the Libyan coast with tourist hotels, take their business there. That’s why they did it…..”
Tariq is just making shit up on the fly. At the very least, Europe was potentially putting their oil and gas supply at risk i.e., potentially making Europe more, not less dependent on Russian natural gas. Second of all, why didn’t Europe (and the US) just swoop in and occupy Libya thereby securing their natural resources? It makes no sense.
Tariq may not have supported the bombing, but he has not supplied any proof for his theory. You are grasping at straws because there must always be a real (economic) reason when the US goes to war however reluctantly in the case of Libya.
Maybe Mr. Greenwald would care to join the discussion and help us out?
For the same reason they are not sending troops to Syria, or even Iraq for the most part. It’s just not something many would support these days. Also, they can’t just grab the oil like Trump says. They need to set up a puppet regime first, and hope it works out. It might not. Of course, while it’s preferable to bring a government within imperial control, getting rid of (or even just containing) an independent government is also valued.
If resources was the main focus, then clearly the idiotic French and English were shooting themselves in the foot since they already received most of Libya’s supplies. Your theory makes no sense, Jose.
“My theory” — which isn’t mine — is not that it’s all about resources. Indeed, that wouldn’t explain Guatemala, Nicaragua, Laos, Grenada, etc. What it’s about is “independent nationalism”, often called “ultranationalism” in official documents. The underlying reason is access to raw materials, but as a matter of principle, it doesn’t really matter if a country has zero impact in the US economy. They wouldn’t want “ultranationalism” to become a “good example.” I’d expand on Chomsky’s formulation and say that resistance to imperialism (e.g. Lebanon) and overt anti-imperialism (e.g. Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador) probably matter even more than independent nationalism.
We will just have to agree to disagree, Jose. If, however, you are interested in concepts like sphere of influence, check Russia out in Ukraine. That is a classic example.
“there must always be a real (economic) reason when the US goes to war…” – CraigSummers
Warmongering, and the subsequent profits of such going to the military-industrial complex has supplanted oil as the economic driver, simply because demand is down in industrialized countries for oil; not so much for warmongering:
“Libya was pretty closed off to US corporations.”
FALSE.
Libya under Gaddafi signed multi million dollar deals with American, British, Italian, French, German corporations since 2004. BP, Eni, Biwater, Shell and many others had multi million dollar contracts in Libya under Gaddafi.
http://links.org.au/node/2179
So, give a better explanation for the military intervention in Libya because there is public evidence that those western corporations were making huge amount of profits by dealing with Gaddafi since 2004.
No country is completely closed off to foreign investment, unless forced to be. For example, about a dozen foreign energy companies operate in Venezuela. Yet, Venezuela is obviously one of the top US candidates for regime change. What matters is independence/nationalism, which can be resource nationalism like in Libya and Venezuela. Overt anti-imperialism is even more predictive.
If you compare Wesley Clark’s list of countries,
with another list of countries:
What’s the difference?
“What matters is independence/nationalism, which can be resource nationalism like in Libya and Venezuela.”
The socialist party is being in power in Venezuela for 15 years. During the last 15 years, which country has been Venezuela’s biggest oil importer? While Chavez bashed the US every day, he was using US money to acquire sophisticated weaponry from Russia and China. Now Venezuela is importing oil. Is it still the US fault? Did the US miss its payments to Venezuela?
Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Qatar oil production are controlled by state owned companies.
So again, give us better explanations. Give us evidence, reasonable analysis.
This is a simple question. Why did the US, UK, France, Italy (Germany allowed the use of US bases) decide to bomb a government with which they were making huge amount of money? A government that decided to deal with them, meeting their leaders personally to sign multi million dollar contracts.
You claimed Gaddafi’s violent response to the Libyan population was not the reason. You claimed independence/nationalism is the main reason, but you provided a list of countries whose national resources are controlled by their governments and have not been bombed by the US.
So, it is your show. It is time to sharpen your argument.
So? A country can have resource nationalism and still sell its excess resources to others. It happens all the time. You see it in how the contracts are renegotiated.
That more or less makes my point. The fact that Venezuela sells oil to the US, does business in the US, and US corporations have franchises in Venezuela, does not mean the US doesn’t see Venezuela as a poor environment for US businesses that has the potential to improve with regime change.
It’s not the reason, because historically that’s not how things work. The US typically doesn’t care about the repression of popular movements. To the contrary, it actively supports such activity.
I am still waiting for a valid argument. Maybe you just don’t have one because you live in your own planet. So maybe this historical fact can help you:
In the 50s the US/UK toppled a government in Iran because that government kicked top Western oil companies away.
Libya was doing the opposite. It was attracting Western oil companies and defense companies with huge deals. The business environment was good for western companies. The problem with ignorant people like you who rely on Greenwald and Chomsky is that you design your own world when the reality does not fit your twisted views.
Humanitarian and human rights are indeed part of foreign policy intervention. Did the US make a mistake by sending thousands of troops to Haiti after the earthquake? Was it a mistake to send troops to Africa to fight Ebola? Was the UK wrong to send troops to fight the RUF in Africa?
You cannot admit these interventions were humanitarian because Greenwald and Chomsky told you the US is a terrorist government, so they must be right.
That was quite an unusual deployment of troops. While other countries sent thousands of doctors, the US sent something like 22,000 troops. Why? At the time, it was described as an occupation force. Here’s what Ray Laforest, a Haitian political activist said:
It’s very doubtful the US would spend significant resources out of purely humanitarian concerns. Like I noted, very minor policy goals (i.e. capturing an accused criminal) are valued more than the lives of thousands.
“Washington’s military response to the earthquake indicates how deeply it misunderstands, mistrusts and mistreats Haiti.”
I think besides Mona, you are the most ignorant commenter here. The US military has the best rapid deployment capability in the world. No countries in the world can deploy this amount of military doctors, nurse, engineers, security experts in that short amount of time. Thousands of lives were saved thanks to the deployment of US troops. Not a single shot was fired by US troops. As a citizen this is your job to bash your government when it kills civilians, topples democratic governments for oil, supports human rights abuses. However, it is also your job to praise your elected government when it does the right thing. In this particular case, the US did the right thing in Haiti. You are an ignorant.
[snip]
‘Another explanation for the assault on Libya is that it is “all about oil,” but that theory too is problematic. As noted in the National Journal, the country produces only about 2 percent of the world’s oil. Saudi Arabia alone has enough spare capacity to make up for any lost production if Libyan oil were to disappear from the market. And if it’s all about oil, why the rush to set up a new central bank?
Another provocative bit of data circulating on the Net is a 2007 “Democracy Now” interview of U.S. General Wesley Clark (Ret.). In it he says that about 10 days after September 11, 2001, he was told by a general that the decision had been made to go to war with Iraq. Clark was surprised and asked why. “I don’t know!” was the response. “I guess they don’t know what else to do!” Later, the same general said they planned to take out seven countries in five years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran.
What do these seven countries have in common? In the context of banking, one that sticks out is that none of them is listed among the 56 member banks of the Bank for International Settlements (BIS). That evidently puts them outside the long regulatory arm of the central bankers’ central bank in Switzerland.
The most renegade of the lot could be Libya and Iraq, the two that have actually been attacked. Kenneth Schortgen Jr., writing on Examiner.com, noted that “[s]ix months before the US moved into Iraq to take down Saddam Hussein, the oil nation had made the move to accept Euros instead of dollars for oil, and this became a threat to the global dominance of the dollar as the reserve currency, and its dominion as the petrodollar.”
According to a Russian article titled “Bombing of Lybia – Punishment for Ghaddafi for His Attempt to Refuse US Dollar,” Gadaffi made a similarly bold move: he initiated a movement to refuse the dollar and the euro, and called on Arab and African nations to use a new currency instead, the gold dinar. Gadaffi suggested establishing a united African continent, with its 200 million people using this single currency. During the past year, the idea was approved by many Arab countries and most African countries. The only opponents were the Republic of South Africa and the head of the League of Arab States. The initiative was viewed negatively by the USA and the European Union, with French president Nicolas Sarkozy calling Libya a threat to the financial security of mankind; but Gaddafi was not swayed and continued his push for the creation of a united Africa.’ [ht – ellen brown]
A Lenk Puts The Dip In Dipshit Production
ellenbrown.com/2011/04/16/libya-all-about-oil-or-all-about-banking/
Here’s the TL;DR Craig Summers: “This is classic far left, anti-American rhetoric. ” It’s all he ever says when the ornamental bullshit is removed. That and a number of other fallacies, his favorite being whataboutery.
“…….That and a number of other fallacies, his favorite being whataboutery……”
Fine. That’s becoming your standard answer which really means you have no answer. However, why do you believe the US bombed Libya if not for humanitarian reasons? Oil could not have been the objective since Gaddafi exported most of their oil production and all of their gas production (not used for domestic consumption) to Europe already. The US was reluctant to support enforcing a no fly zone (Wikipedia):
“…….Initial NATO planning for a possible no-fly zone took place in late February and early March,[77] especially by NATO members France and the United Kingdom.[78] France and the UK were early supporters of a no-fly zone and had sufficient airpower to impose a no-fly zone over the rebel-held areas, although they might need additional assistance for a more extensive exclusion zone……The US had the air assets necessary to enforce a no-fly zone, but was cautious about supporting such an action prior to obtaining a legal basis for violating Libya’s sovereignty. Furthermore, due to the sensitive nature of military action by the US against an Arab nation, the US sought Arab participation in the enforcement of a no-fly zone……”
So why did the US, France and England (and 16 other countries) supported by UN resolution 1973 enforce a no fly zone in Libya? Natural Resources? Just to bomb another Muslim country?
“…..Every war – particularly protracted ones like the “War on Terror” – demands sustained dehumanization campaigns……..applied almost exclusively to Muslims…..It is worse than that: it is based on the implicit, and sometimes overtly stated, premise that Muslims generally, even those guilty of nothing, deserve what the US does to them……” – Greenwald
Mona (Wikipedia):
“……Calling my lap dog DocHollywood……”
I see lenk continues with his inane sophistry:
Evidence? Do you, lenk, have any support for this astonishing claim that “everyone knew” chasing Saddam out of Kuwati was about oil, and that when the U.S. supports those with appalling human rights records it only does so because someone else would be worse? (For whom?) Is that, lenk, we the U.S. overthrew the democratically elected prime minister of Iran in 1953? Did “everybody know” that? I mean lenk, where is your evidence for such astonishing claims!?
And lenk, then WHY do U.S. presidents and their subordinates run around hand-wringing about rape rooms and other human rights abuses all the time, huh? Are the the lying about what really motivates them? Cuz, lenk, “if “everybody really knows” the true reasons, then why all the spewing of falsehoods form our highest officials when the govt wants to bomb and invade a country?
Why would he? Glenn doesn’t lie about his agenda. So there isn’t a point where he’s saying somersetting about his views in some “rare moment of candor.” He’s nearly always candid.
What was noteworthy about that unless the government was praising Morsi to the heavens and/or claiming the weapons were sent for humanitarian reasons? lenk, I think that (yet again) you are failing to grasp Glenn’s point!
lenk. lenk. Glenn is not writing about “human rights conerns” per se, much less exploiting them. No lenk. He’s shining light on the cynical exploitation of such concerns by and for the actual, less noble agenda of our government.
In a democracy, the leaders pretend to tell the truth and the people pretend to believe them. This gives Americans plausible deniability.
Democracy would be terrifying if it meant that people were held accountable for the actions of their government. So the government must demonstrate it is fooling all of the people all of the time. The people aren’t really fooled, but they pretend to be fooled, which is just as good.
You do not need to answer my comments, but when you do would you please ask some real questions? But again you are a dumb ass.
“Evidence? Do you, lenk, have any support for this astonishing claim that “everyone knew” chasing Saddam out of Kuwati was about oil”
Everybody in that context means all reasonable individuals with a basic understanding of international politics. Of course, you are not included. You are a dumb ass. I am not here to accommodate your ignorance, but I can make an exception. Everybody knows Palin foreign policy was crap. “Everybody” in that context means individuals with an elementary knowledge of basic international relations. Those who are clapping when she talked about ME are similar to you who clap whenever Greenwald talks BS about foreign policy.
“when the U.S. supports those with appalling human rights records it only does so because someone else would be worse?”
Another stupid question. Can you share with us even one commentator who stated that claim? The US supports governments with good and bad human rights records. The US like any other government defends its interests. Can you name ONE tribe in Saudi Arabia that is willing to accept freedom of religion in their country? You do not even know one single tribe in SA! Do you think life would be better for South Koreans if North Korea was allowed to stay in the South? The South Koreans made a choice between the US and North Korea. The US, UK, Germany, France, Russia, China, South Africa…intervene to defend their own interests. However, sometimes human rights can benefit from those interventions. If you were a Jew in a camp in Poland would you care about Stalin’s human right records when he was bombing and killing nazis? Again, you are anti Semite, so no need to answer that question.
“Are the the lying about what really motivates them? Cuz, lenk, “if “everybody really knows” the true reasons, then why all the spewing of falsehoods form our highest officials when the govt wants to bomb and invade a country?”
Easy and stupid questions.
1) Politicians lie because there are dumb asses like you who cannot think independently. Everybody in that context means reasonable individuals, not you.
2) Human rights have been part of foreign policy. You cannot recognize this fact because you are a dumb ass. Kosovo, Sierra Leone, sanctions against Uganda…
“He’s nearly always candid.”
Greenwald to Mona:
Good dog! Good dog! Good dog! Come get your treats!
“What was noteworthy about that unless the government was praising Morsi to the heavens and/or claiming the weapons were sent for humanitarian reasons? lenk, I think that (yet again) you are failing to grasp Glenn’s point!”
Nothing personal. You are indeed a dumb ass.
US is sending sophisticated weapons to Al Sisi, running a government with well documented human rights violations.
Greenwald: UNACCEPTABLE
US is sending sophisticated weapons to Morsi, running a government with well documented human rights violations.
Greenwald: …(silence)
US has multi billion dollar oil deals with SA, allowing that government with poor human rights records to buy sophisticated weaponry
Greenwald: UNACCEPTABLE
US has multi billion dollar deals with Venezuela, allowing that government with poor human rights records to buy sophisticated weapons.
Greenwald: ….silence
Yes, I got your propagandist’s point: the US hypocrisy should be unmasked only when the US deals with pro Western, pro Israel, anti Hamas/Hezbollah governments.
“He’s shining light on the cynical exploitation of such concerns by and for the actual, less noble agenda of our government.”
Which is what Greenwald is doing, but you are incapable of seeing because you are a dumb ass.
Some relevant history here: In the 70s, Chile continued to receive military aid, right through Allende’s presidency, even though the US was known to be opposed to Allende. What needs to be understood here is that the US was nor arming Allende. They were arming Pinochet, which worked out as planned.
What if, instead of it being James Blake, pro athlete in good health, who was thrown to the ground for “standing while black”, it was someone with a medical condition? What if they were crippled, or died?
All because US police can’t say something like: “Police! You are under arrest!”
http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/former-tennis-star-jason-blake-mistaken-arrest-cop-shouldnt-get-n426381
@JLocke –
THANK YOU for bringing up the James Blake incident here. Frankly, to me it’s chilling. What kind of society are we becoming if police just tackle innocent people with not a word of introduction as to that they are even police? Let alone did this jackass even think to approach the situation any differently? The alleged suspect wasn’t even charged with a violent crime. Mr. Blake wasn’t doing anything threatening or even running. The scary part is – is there a chance this kind of behavior by cops is being normalized (at least he didn’t use his gun?)?
As much as I agree with Greenwald and most of those who read and post about his work, something keeps repeating in my head:
While we are on this tangent about how the world oughta be, how are our thoughts and dreams much different than Kim Davis saying how she thinks the world oughta be?
Expecting Americans to work toward being socialist, peace-loving utopians is not really a realistic expectation. It’s like a crap parent expecting their crap child to behave well after years of teaching the child to behave like crap.
Is the answer to not try and get others to change? I’m not sure I’d ever be able to answer that beyond saying maybe.
Kim Davis relies on scripture.
The Constitution relies on history, philosophy, law, and what government should regulate.
Kim Davis wants a theocracy where Biblical law trumps all else. (That’s what she means by “conscience” I presume.)
The rest of us (for the most part, non-theocrats I suppose) want a transparent, democratic government administered by honest people making their best efforts while guided by evidence, experience and due considerations — all based upon some clearly established and indisputable rights held inalienably by all people of the political entity.
“… held inalienably by all people.”
Period!
(Sorry.)
@ milton – it appears to me that the bible and the constitution have at least one thing in common: everybody interprets it to their own liking
@jlocke – lol nice one… but you are much more optimistic than i am if you think we will have solved our problem with war by the end of the century
@ glenn – if you read this, keep doing it… even if it’s futile keep doing it
@charliethreeee
it appears to me that the bible and the constitution have at least one thing in common: everybody interprets it to their own liking
That’s true but, unfortunately for some who try to misinterpret the latter, there is a rather large body of legal jurisprudence and case law attached that tends to keep folks a bit more on target, no matter how much twisting they choose to engage in.
@milton
Kim Davis wants a theocracy where Biblical law trumps all else.
I disagree on the bit above. I think Kim Davis wants a theocracy that applies only those bits of Biblical law that she approves of. I seriously doubt she’d be willing to go all Leviticus on herself. ;-}
That’s it. Ben Carson was asked on Face the Nation; if elected President would the Bible or the Constitution rule his decisions? He gave a non-answer followed by his declaration of the extreme importance of faith throughout his life. The guy gives me the creeps like no other candidate.
Carson says:
He also claims
Forget about Jim Crow, forget about the Gilded Age, forget about the Great Depression, forget about World War II, forget about Vietnam, forget about military adventurism, forget about torture, forget about habeas corpus, forget about due process …
Expanding healthcare is the worst thing since slavery!
The guy isn’t just creepy, his perception is skewed way beyond bizarre.
“Expecting Americans to work toward being socialist, peace-loving utopians is not really a realistic expectation. “
You’re not the first to say that. In one of the earliest documents ever unearthed, found in a cave and carbon dated to 10 000 BC…
Grug – Meat good!
Krop – Yes but if you heat it, it’s better, and you can..
Grug – Uhhh? Meat not good?! Arghhh.
Krop – Oh never mind. Have you read my article?
Grug – Uhhhh? Arcle??
Krop – Yes, the one I gave you on the evolution of society, where I postulate that someday we…I call us “humans” form larger and more sophisticated…Blah, blah…blah..
…until finally in the 21st century, give or take a century, we complete the transition from caves to war to a sustainable and peaceful way of living together on this one Earth.
Grug – Grug ate arcle. Arcle bad. Meat good.
@charliethetree –
Much food for thought in your post. Think on this: “Expecting Americans to work toward being socialist, peace-loving utopians is not really a realistic expectation.”
Well, I don’t expect everyone to become socialist. But peace loving is another matter. We’d better get our act together and stop killing each other or humanity will be in deeper doo-doo than it already is.
We can’t expect everyone to agree on everything to be sure. But I think milton wiltmellow is on to something when he said “The rest of us (for the most part, non-theocrats I suppose) want a transparent, democratic government administered by honest people…” We have to agree that all citizens have some basic rights and that although the Kim Davises of the world have a right to their opinions, they shouldn’t force their world view on everyone else; ESPECIALLY if it involved an infringement of others’ rights. We have to stop demonizing “the other” and start trying to find ways to work together in ways that will benefit most of us – things like economic and governmental reforms that empower folks OTHER than the 1%.
Don’t forget:
“Divided = Conquered, but United = Empowered!”
“We have to stop demonizing “the other” and start trying to find ways to work together in ways that will benefit most of us – things like economic and governmental reforms that empower folks OTHER than the 1%.”
This thread is getting old and so you may not make it back here to read this but I thought I would add this anyhow.
That is the ONE problem that I have with this website and this forum for reader participation. As it see it, many liberals demonize the politically conservatives here and elsewhere. The implication of that concept is that we are expecting people to react more like us, that we are smarter and know more than conservatives. In reacting this way we are no different than religious zealots (or any other ideological folk who expect others to be like them.) Working together is best.
@charliethetree –
You said: “many liberals demonize the politically conservatives here and elsewhere”
Well, I try NOT to demonize – especially in public forums, since a) I HATE it when conservatives demonize liberals (and make no mistake, that happens!!!) and b) I really do feel that our problems go beyond left vs. right.
That said, I can’t say I sympathize much with conservatives. I just don’t subscribe to that point of view, especially with some of the hateful rhetoric the far right has slung at the left.
“The implication of that concept is that we are expecting people to react more like us, that we are smarter and know more than conservatives.” Well, obviously we can’t expect everyone to react the same way. But conservative can also do a lot of looking down their noses at liberals as well. I’m not sure why you’re only picking on one side here.
Yes, I agree, definitely, that working together is best. So we HAVE to start cutting through the poisonous rhetoric and hate mongering – and that’s something BOTH sides need to do.
This is funny, Dan Hodges, who describes himself as a neo-Blairite, thinks with the election of Corbyn as Labour leader, we’ve entered an age of hypocrisy:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11864292/Welcome-to-the-hypocrisy-of-the-Corbyn-era.html
What is Hodges upset about? He’s upset that “white man” Corbyn has appointed women to the Health, Education, Transport, Defence, Attorney General and other positions in the shadow cabinet. And he’s appointed men to Housing, Climate Change, Justice, Foreign Secretary and other positions.
Can you see the problem?
And not only that, It took Corbyn 48 hours to decide who was in cabinet. 48 Hours!!! Americans won’t understand how terrible that is.
(it takes US Presidents months to fill out their cabinets, but to be fair US cabinet positions aren’t really that critical, right???) If the UK opposition leader takes more than a day to decide who in parliament is going to lead the opposition to the government ministers, the world might come to an end. So it’s best just to pick anybody and hope everything works out ok.
Hodges argument is a little hard to follow, but basically, somehow by being white, and promoting a majority of women to a variety of posts in the shadow cabinet for the first time in history, and taking the weekend to do it, Corbyn is a hypocrite.
Those folks are getting so desperate that they’re reduced to throwing anything and everything – including their own sweat-stained skid-marked tightey whiteys – at the wall in order to find something that’ll stick. :-s
its the same old song. how one can really promote democracy and is it even possible? all this discourse is all right but it still in some kind of frame. you miss a lot of staff how societies organize how people organize and so on. even to criticize USA in this way its to suppose too much. like its some unique society and so on.
Corbn does have this crazy idea that bombs falling on your head leads some to become refugees:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-victory-vision
CraigSummers is soooo going to kick this Corbyn guys ass.
Everyone knows you can’t just go around addressing fundamental human rights concerns first and still make any headway at all in solving these complex foreign policy dilemmas. Simple minded fool!
It’s going to be fun watching the BBC and the conservative media continue to attempt to destroy Corbyn, the latest attempt was them trying to paint Corbyn’s appointment of the first majority female shadow cabinet as “sexism”. The conservative government cabinet only has ten percent women but that’s not sexism.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/live-jeremy-corbyn-makes-finishing-touches-to-labours-shadow-cabinet-10499453.html
This is no doubt just the beginning. Corporate media does have the ability to be very adversarial to authority and power when that authority and power is a meaningful threat to the interests they represent. They can even present arguments from “the left” as part of that opposition. The same dynamic will repeat in the US were Bernie Sanders to be elected.
The cynicism and self serving ‘humanitarian despotism’ are appalling.
You are voicing the reality found in David Ehrenfeld’s 1978 book “The Arrogance of Humanism”. Four decades later and we have learned nothing, nothing at all. And it is unlikely to change.
BUT….
Hey! At Least We Are Better than Russia and China (on domestic human “rights”)
^ the Kissingerian “realist” view?
While honesty, the linchpin corner-stone foundation of every human affair, may be preferable to, say, a Obamian “talisman” peeing down your back and telling you it’s raining, the Kissingerian “”realist” view that only U.S. interests matter and human rights abuses are irrelevant” is decidedly not “fine” … or moral Glenn.
In reality, by hook or by crook, any national … religious, sex, class, color or creed – anything – which enables people to feel superior to others has been, and will continue to be, the greatest impediment to any conception of a more “moral” advancement of human civilization.
p.s. That’s why DJoker so graciously acknowledged Federers’ sublime contributions/inspiration, lo these many years, in his win last night in the U.S. Open final. Hot damn!
Too much thought is a handicap in America.
Orwell examines this “thoughtlessness” — this disease of affluence –in Politics and the English Language.
Drone killings makes us sick. Torture nauseates us. Catastrophic climate change overwhelms our ability to comprehend. The consequences of income (life) inequity terrifies us when we see what happens to those who don’t generate sufficient money. As long as these abstractions remain abstract, as long as Malala dies when she’s shot, we don’t have to take these abstractions seriously.
How can anyone survive in a culture when the single price of admission is intellectual compliance?
People knew about the death camps long before pictures showed the breadth of Nazi depravity.
This is why the torture pictures from a decade ago remain classified (for instance). This is why the US redefines corpses in drone strikes as “militants” no matter the age, gender or occupation of those victims.
We (human beings) can endure silly abstractions like “freedom” or “terrorism” only because these abstractions allow us the luxury of ignorance. “[I]ntelligent and well-reasoning people” cannot survive without the intellectual windowless castles in which the elite have chosen to live.
Oh for fucks sake.
Just delete this please.
Why delete the truth so well put by yourself?
Excellent comment.
Thanks for you comment.
I hate when I make a small error (unclosed citation) that glares back at me by an unforgiving schoolmarm.
The good part is Politics and the English Language deserves emphasis (just not so much.)
It should be required reading in every high school in the country.
No, please don’t.
Both the Orwell quote and your commentary were excellent.
Thank you.
Thank you.
As I said, Orwell’s essay should be required reading.
Then when someone shouts “look out, a terrorist!!” instead of screaming in terror, people might wonder about the politics of this anti-terrorism pushed by supposedly well-meaning people.
Writing the words “human rights” and America in the same sentence is an oxymoron if ever there was one.
America’s commitment “human rights”, as an historical matter, is exactly as deep as its perceived “interests” in any particular location on the globe. And then that commitment might manifest as either killing large numbers of people in that location or providing some “humanitarian” aid of one kind or another. It depends 100% on how and to what degree America believes its “interests” are best served.
But it has absolutely nothing to do with any actual commitment to “human rights” in the abstract. America has extinguished way too many lives (in the millions) in service of its interests and contrary to “human rights” to ever be able to claim with a straight face they give a shit about other’s “human rights” particularly the “right” to live and not be killed in service of America’s “interests”.
If America actually did care about “human rights”, it would start with ensuring the “human rights” of lots of Americans within America who are robbed of those basic rights every single day. America’s elites in government, military and business could care less until denying those individuals their “human rights” imposes a “cost” on the elite’s interests in terms of either their money or their power. Nothing more nothing less.
And if America doesn’t give a shit about the “human rights” of its own citizens it sure as shit isn’t going to give a flying fig about anyone else’s human rights in some far flung corner of the world.
Anybody that thinks America gives a shit about anybody’s “human rights” is either ignorant of America’s history or is delusional (or possibly some combination of both).
I think it’s just really sad that specifically when it comes to civil rights, human rights, and foreign policy that our own government does not reflect the wishes of its citizens. It acts as its own body for the purposed of I don’t know who. When you start thinking that our own government is not under our control when it comes to these issues it’s really messed up and no wonder we have very low voter turnout.
“The U.S. loves human-rights-abusing regimes and always has, provided they “cooperate”: meaning, honors U.S. dictates.”
Should be “honor” here (regimes…honor vs. regimes…honors).
The U.S., like the rest of the world, needs to be half humanitarian and half inhumanitarian. Consider, for example, our global policy on asylum: if a Syrian is in our country he will probably be granted safe refuge, but if he’s about to be killed in Syria he need not call or write begging for help. The central, overriding consideration seems to be that the services of the organized criminals who smuggle the people in to get the asylum should be worth as much as possible and pull in as much revenue as possible. For that to happen, there has to be a huge contrast in the nature of our policy. It works the same way for every country, every issue, because everything is a racket one way or the other.
key difference between a thread of liberalism (libertarian-progressive-neoliberal) vs. Marxists like Horkheimer (“theory of rackets”), the pinkos weren’t glib about this fact. They weren’t arguing TINA. They weren’t arguing for savviness. They agonized over solutions. Liberals pretend liberty is negative. Libertarians believe liberty is negative. Neoliberals know liberty isn’t negative. To their great advantage.
What I guess you mean is that the US needs to appear humanitarian, because that in itself serves a purpose, at the same time it has the ability to do anything it wants. In purely “pragmatic” terms, there’s no reason the US should be humanitarian, unless there’s something to gain from it. In your specific example, granting political refuge to those fleeing war (in particular, fleeing instability the US itself helped create), it would obviously be a significant PR blunder if the US refused to do so. Offering to take in 10,000 Syrians is a relatively insignificant gesture, considering countries like Lebanon are taking in millions of refugees.
No, the reason isn’t that we need to “appear humanitarian”. We need to *be* humanitarian, hand out good value to the asylum seekers and illegal aliens, if it is going to be worth it for them to shell out $10,000 or more a pop for the permission of the Mexican cartels to let them into the country. We need to understand that these cartels are the sovereigns who decide who gets citizenship and who gets the boot, who gets drugs and who doesn’t, and our immigration policy, like our drug policy, is written solely to maximize their benefit. As the most successful businessmen in America they are entitled to nothing less than that.
“But this nonetheless highlights what baffles me most about U.S. political discourse: how – whenever it’s time to introduce the next “humanitarian war” or other forms of attack against the latest Evil Dictator or Terrorist Group of the Moment – so many otherwise intelligent and well-reasoning people are willing to believe that the U.S. Government is motivated by opposition to human rights abuses and oppression.”
No, you are wrong. Or you are just spouting your typical BS to your fans who will gladly accept it.
Those “intelligent and well reasoning people” know very well the US (and every government around the world) history of supporting or ignoring human rights violations. These people made a choice between what is bad and what is worse. Everybody knows the US chased Saddam out of Kuwait in 91 because of oil. The invasion had nothing to do with Saddam war crimes. If you were a Kuwaiti, would you rather live under Saddam or just sell cheap oil to the US?
If you were a Yazidi woman, would you rather live under ISIS or would you feel more comfortable with the US bombing ISIL fighters regardless of the reasons the US uses to bomb them?
“Even though it’s self-satisfying to believe your government is some sort of crusader for human rights and freedom, it’s not asking too much to just be as honest about U.S. exploitation of human rights concerns as this “senior U.S. official” was when talking to The Washington Post.”
Can you at least act like that “senior US official” sometimes? For instance, you could report on US support for anti Israeli governments with poor human rights records. While you have consistently bashed US support for Egypt under anti Hamas Al Sisi, you were suspiciously quiet when the US was shipping sophisticated weapons to anti Israel Morsi while his governments still had serious human rights violations.
Did you learn how to “exploit human rights concerns” from the US government or it is just part of “activist journalism”?
The facts, objectively, just don’t support this theory. Like I’ve explained elsewhere, there’s a model with much better explanatory power.
Take the Guatemala coup of 1954. That was an overthrow of the first democratically elected government of Guatemala (a “New Deal”-type government) that came after a brutal US-backed dictatorship. The post-coup government was very repressive and Guatemala had highly autocratic governments until the 90s.
History repeats more or less the same way in Chile in 1973 and Nicaragua in the 80s.
There’s no “lesser evil” thinking going on here. It’s clearly something else. Saudi Arabia is not a US ally because it’s a “lesser evil” to, say, Iran or Venezuela . That’s total nonsense.
“The facts, objectively, just don’t support this theory. Like I’ve explained elsewhere, there’s a model with much better explanatory power.”
Actually the facts do, but you are not an independent thinker. Greenwald and Chomsky (who is not a foreign policy experts) tell you what to think. An average elementary school student in history knows the US toppled elected governments around the world because of oil, agrarian reforms…Greenwald’s point is that intelligent people believe what the US states about human rights when designing its foreign policy. That is false. Intelligent Kurds understand that the US is in Iraq for oil, but they would rather deal with the US than being under ISIS. Intelligent South Korean understood the US did not care about Chung Hee’s human rights abuse, but they would rather have the US support than being occupied by North Korea.
Again, if you were a Yazidi woman, would you care for what reasons the US is bombing ISIL?
In foreign policy governments deal with evils, you just pick the ones that fit your needs. Unless you or Greenwald can provide a better alternative.
If you think that’s the point, you completely missed it, as usual. I’m sure some do buy the propaganda, but the main issue is dishonesty in government and the media. Is that the right approach, or is it better to deal in “straight power concepts” as George Kennan once suggested?
Your other point is that some people in the countries being destabilized do support intervention, regardless of motive. I’m not sure what that’s supposed to tell us. It’s the case of practically any intervention. It could be shown that some people in Poland welcomed the Nazi invasion of that country.
“Everybody knows the US chased Saddam out of Kuwait in 91 because of oil.”
Bullshit. Not only didn’t “everybody” know that, the media and the war supporters for both Bush I and Bush II talked endlessly about “Saddam’s rape rooms” and the “mass graves” and the need to bring about “liberation”. Those who DID point out that both 1991 and 2003 were about oil and war profiteering were called “Saddam supporters”, “terrorist lovers”, and people who “hated America”. The attempt to erase the past by saying “everybody knows” it was about oil, as if there wasn’t relentless push-back against people who said it was about oil, and the media lockstep refusal to allow anyone to mention it was about oil for years, is willful ignorance at best.
Your comment reminds me of how quickly people’s attitudes and comments about torture, in light of the Abu Ghraib, changed literally within months from “WE NEVER TORTURE” (and anyone who says we did was again labeled as “hating America”) to “WE NEED TO TORTURE TO STOP THEM”, because sometimes barbaric war crimes are necessary when you’re faced with the greatest threat ever posed to the US – even if terrorism is an extraordinarily minor threat blown wildly out of proportion.
OT – Chelsea Manning op-ed – excerpts from a book to be released in October:
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/32759-transphobia-at-the-intersection-of-the-military-and-prison-industrial-complexes
The reason that amoral career-minded politicians keep hopping on board with these endless military adventures is that the risk/reward math is all reward and no risk. If a military adventure goes well, it becomes a valuable talking point for the next election cycle. It might even be the springboard to move up the career ladder. If a military adventure goes badly, it gets banished from public discourse and fades into a non-issue. So being pro-war is a one-way bet. There’s only upside, and zero downside. What’s not to like?
Rorschach much? :)
There are no nations. There are no peoples. There is a 10-1 ratio of aircraft carriers.
“A Global Force For Good” – Keith David Williams
Sir, haven’t you written in other articles and criticized the mainstream news reporters for using anonymous sources – publishing what these sources state as fact w/o further investigation? Though admittedly, the anonymous source would seem to be telling the truth.
Regarding this: “In the end, it was an almost seamless transition from Bush to Obama.” There was a public interview of Marine Corps Captain Scott Ritter by Seymour Hersh at the New York Society for ….something.. Anyway during the interview Ritter told Hersh that had Al Gore been elected the US would have still invaded Iraq. It sounded like the entire audience booed. They just could not believe what they were hearing.
‘Solidarity with a free press ” the return!
https://theintercept.com/2015/09/12/accusations-anti-semitism-jeremy-corbyn-nothing-anti-semitism/
Quote: “…so many otherwise intelligent and well-reasoning people are willing to believe that the U.S. Government is motivated by opposition to human rights abuses and oppression.”
I would edit this to:
“…so many otherwise intelligent and well-reasoning people are willing to believe that MY GUY AND MY POLITICAL PARTY is motivated by opposition to human rights abuses and oppression.”
I really thought that the anti-war movement that developed during the Bush administration would continue into the Obama administration. My naivete got the best of me. There was really no anti-war movement as much as it was an “anti-Bush wars” movement. Which dissipated once Obama got into office continuing the imperial project. Hey, now my guy is the one sending the bombs and of course it is for human rights.
A recent example. When Obama starting butting heads with Putin over the Ukraine, suddenly the Democratic party parts of the internets justified the violent overthrow of a legitimately elected government, and essentially gave a pass to the neo-Nazis who instigated the violence.
I’d rather get a dry stick up the rump from the party that pretended they weren’t going to do it to me again during the election than to vote for the dry stick.
Still, I find the Dimmercranks more despicable for their sold out hypocrisy than the Repugnacogs for their overt appeals to “Vote more champagne for the wealthy, and maybe they’ll pee a little on you.”
Don’t feel bad about thinking the antiwar movement was actually antiwar. I bought the hope and change crap until I saw Mr. Obummer sliding on his knees to take Bush’s place at Wall Street’s feet before he even took the oath of office. Seriously, that one caught me right in the diaphragm. Of course he got my Oh Shit! Not Mitt! vote in 2012, but by then I was surprised only to find myself laughing alone whenever the president was described as liberal. People –serious people!– are still buying into the red and blue show as if there’s a viable political process in America. As if there is a genuine, substantive difference between say, Ted Cruz and Nancy Pelosi, instead of them just having been bought by different sponsors.
It’s like running across somebody who doesn’t understand that neither Nike nor Adidas has operated a shoe factory for twenty years. Nike does not make shoes. Adidas does not make shoes. All the shoes are made by asian kids who dream of someday owning a pig. Like Pelosi, like Cruz, Nike and Adidas are just marketing one brand against another. That’s how America works.
I do not believe the much bemoaned polarization is the problem, I believe it is the point, precisely: a carefully engineered result that will be adjusted as demographics change to keep the illusion of participatory politics alive.
Speaking of participatory politics, allow me to congratulate our British cousins on having an actual representative in their government this week; that’s awesome! Hope he gets some time to do a little opposing before the CIA winds up a crazy to go shoot him.
Just shows how corrupt the MSM is…How is this evident contradiction going to end? Power has the ability to make its own rules, and is impervious to its own lies. Until that power is confronted and uprooted, there can be no change. Thanks Glenn, for continuing to expose the horrors inflicted in our name.
If honesty were the best policy it would be generally practiced. Instead, the truth is something shameful that un-named officials only dare to whisper in the bar to disreputable journalists after they have had a few too many.
At first glance, this seems odd. The US public would be totally supportive of any policy that promised to lower the price at the pump. Propping up dictators, wars of aggression, covert plots to overthrow foreign leaders – only a radical fringe would object if these advanced US interests. People understand that the US has a relatively high standard of living, not because it is more productive than other countries, but because it controls the world’s natural resources.
But that’s the problem. The US public is not forgiving if their government fails to advance their interests. So there would be a tremendous downside to failure. However, if you can convince the public that a war is for humanitarian reasons, they will not only be forgiving, but downright pleased when it ends in failure.
People like to imagine a semi-fictitious past when the US was more honest about its policies. Roosevelt supposedly remarked about Nicaraguan dictator Somoza that “he may be a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch”. But this story is apocryphal and there is no evidence he actually said it. So the dynamic then was no different. You don’t avow your support for foreign dictators on the basis of their usefulness, because once they are shot or overthrown, your policy appears to be not only amoral, but also a failure (which is unacceptable). On the other hand, if you can state that the locals placed your man in front of a firing squad because he was introducing humanitarian reforms too rapidly, the general public will sympathize and forgive you.
The thing is that it’s not done to advance the interests of ordinary Americans. The relevant interests are those of the elites, who are the only ones with real political influence. That’s evident in trade policy, for example.
That’s a given, but if you observe a wolf pack devouring a kill, the pups do get to gnaw on the bones after the adults have finished their meal. If you do a comparison, you will find that the ordinary American is still better off than the ordinary Yemeni. As Jeb Bush has declared, you have to let the big dogs eat, but there will be some scraps of empire for everyone else.
The general public of the U.S. absolutely believes that the U.S. has a high standard of living because it’s more productive
Thank you for this article. It will be shared and discussed with my high school students. I did expect more from the Nobel Peace Prize recipient that is now the public face leading the U.S. in this policy.
You left me hanging there, Glen. Lets get specific. Maybe other readers can help too. What are the American ‘interests’ that get you either a free pass or a ream job? Karl, are you out there?
Money for the corporations and the rich, and capitalism in general. That’s been the driving force of US foreign policy since at least WWII. A despotic state that allows access to oil and other money-makers is vastly preferred to a free democracy that doesn’t.
That’s roughly accurate, with one caveat: even if a country is tiny, with little resources and zero effect in the US economy, the US can go out of its way to ensure that it’s ruled by a US-friendly business class. There are a number of examples of this.
Thanks again, Mr. Greenwald, but politics is coercion. Making believe it might be, could be, or ever has been, anything else is where the hypocrisy starts.
We have no way of knowing, but I will bet some of that silly paper with zeroes on it that the first women to achieve an agricultural surplus, somewhere along the Euphrates, circa 8,000 BCE, were singing their joyful way home with that first harvest in their baskets when they were waylaid, robbed, and misused by the first politician and his security forces.
Cooperate, or hurt.
Fight back, and die.
This exact same principle operates in troops of chimpanzees, sir. If the dominant males had a means of storing the surplus food, their females and offspring would die or migrate in short order. Explaining neatly how humans colonized the world. Now where do we go?
…
Well, we could teach our children that enough is plenty, and prove it by first making certain that everyone gets enough, before deciding what to do with the surplus. But I am afraid we will have to convince everyone to stop cooperating with the parasites first. And that’s why I love The Intercept.
your brother alan
Exactly. Let’s not pretend it’s a post-9/11 thing. In Latin America alone the US has a history of opposing and undermining independent nationalist governments (mostly democratic ones) at the same time that it has propped up brutal dictatorships. The faults of the independent governments are highlighted and exaggerated, whereas the faults of the pro-US regimes are virtually ignored in the mainstream. Today, for example, you probably wouldn’t know from mainstream reports that Mexico and Colombia (the primary US allies in the region) are the most dangerous countries for journalists.
The following is not a critique of the article, but is an observation meant to
eliminate the false appearance of contradiction.
….. ” one can make that argument cogently and honestly if not
amorally.”
This seeming contradiction stems from our misunderstanding of the
word “morals,”
Morals derive from mors (customs of behavior) and they over time
are used to create standards of behavior which are meant to guide
a society’s population to reinforce certain behaviors.
Morals can be any kind of behavior which a given society prefers to
set up for whatever benefit they believe they will acquire through that
behavior.
Clearly, the great problem addressed in this article is not a significant problem
to the vast majority of US voters.
It is an accepted aspect of the morality of the worshipers of money, power,
self-importance, and desperate insecurity which has always been a major
component of the character of the USA (and probably the majority of
other nations).
The acceptance of this self-serving corruption is, as is shown in the article,
clearly connected to how Barrack Obama could call himself a “pragmatist.”
It is the pragmatism of those who put economic domination above
equal justice and who see human beings as “human resources” and
who see the environment as mere resources to be used,
by whatever means necessary (flim flam lies, misrepresentation, murder…),
for the accumulation of power.
Kissinger’s “realism” is the realism supported by every voter who supports
the democrat’s, republican’s, or libertarian’s corporate church.
The remarkable thing is that someone in the corporate government
could be honest about their religion.
The “terrorists” they are fighting just happen to share the same morals.
It occurred to me, as I read along…. that this sentiment, “Whereas other countries that don’t cooperate, we ream them as best we can.” could be re-purposed without losing very much in accuracy: Whereas [US citizens] that don’t cooperate, we ream them as best we can.
It doesn’t seem unreasonable, or irrational, to me, to observe that the human rights of US Citizens are increasingly threatened because of their non-compliance as those of the rest of the world, and quite likely by many of the same military tactics (short of cluster bombs) “enjoyed” by the citizens of those uncooperative states.
Which leads me to conclude that if someone had no other reason to care about what was happening to Citizens of the World on the receiving end of US “humanitarian intervention,” one might want to care about the motivation behind those instincts and how those instincts are realized. The application of those high-minded sentiments seem to produce outcomes antithetical to anything humanitarian. It is not hard for me to quip to myself, Coming soon to a theatre near you…
Very good analogy. One can analogize it further to how the likelihood that domestic lawbreakers will be imprisoned is directly related to how much power they wield on behalf of (as opposed to in opposition to) the prevailing elite.
Yes; I had the lengthy prison terms of Chelsea Manning and Barrett Brown (relative to their “offenses”), for example, and the exile of Snowden, in mind as I thought about the indefinite detention or assassination of any male of “military age.” We stand in wonder at the pass that allowed those behind the economic implosion of 2008 to remain untouched, and the hold-harmless “clause” that allows Dick Cheney and George Bush to continue to speak of “American interests” and “world security.” The forces brought to bear on the people of Furgeson, and even the pepper spraying of the UC Davis students, are equally disproportional and unidirectional. These “public safety” enforcement techniques seem well within the category of ream them as best we can. For now, those who are in opposition to the “humanitarian instincts” [read as: the insatiable pecuniary pursuits] of our elite, are merely subject to surveillance and softer applications (?) of power. We’re still short of being assassinated by drones, but with the advent of arming drones in at least one state, one can wonder what extension of the limits of can might be in that ream them as best we can.
I have turned the maxim: We fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here., on its head. We should fail to accept the “humanitarian instincts” of our ruling elite there, because – if we don’t – it will be increasingly difficult to fight such instincts when applied to ourselves here. You don’t have to have a genuine humanitarian concern for the people of Iraq, Yemen, Syria, or elsewhere, to oppose with great vigor the application of American power abroad. One could simply decide that they didn’t want that “license” to reduce the human body to mere blood and bone extended to themselves the instant they are deemed to be “non-cooperative.”
Very subjective analyses of innate instincts are impossible to unravel if you don’t have the narrative, the more likely scenarios some of which the patient provides. If the patient is humanitarian instincts , and each us were given 1000 years to live and analyze every NGO , it would still be a farcical attempt to control into a Stepford formula the diversity of human motivations . “your instincts are good ” but my psychiatrist quickly forgot Freud’s words: Analysis should be temporary . The aim of humanitarian aid is food , drink, emotional and intellectual stimulation , and a livable wage. The problem with the extreme religious right is that they interpret the Bible as if compassion and agape are words they have recopywrighted and redefined. Being pleasant and understanding to “sinners” is not in the religious right best interests, what with their coffers potentially depleted by the degenerate poor . What perverse instinct the religious right for purgatorial punishment for insignificant moments and that can be exaggerated for vengeful purposes ?
“What is the perverse instinct that the religious right has for purgatorial punishment …” edited for clarity by AbuseofEveryone, MD . I agree that civilized people don’t want the Crusades being refought here or there for a meaningless , chilling epithet “they were non- cooperative ”
Culture identity and memories are not meaningless , though . That’s why there is anger from all sort of immigration historians about the callous way the UN Charter of Human Rights has been been dismissed as too post -1945 or unrealistically charitable. Politics is no longer the “honorable profession ” it was thought of in the altruistic 1960’s. Don’t let politics become a chicanery profession
“Whereas [US citizens] that don’t cooperate, we ream them as best we can.”
Yep. And, oh, are they good at it.
Cointelpro stalking and harassment. Lives stolen and it’s hidden in plain sight.
Boy howdy, you ‘ve got that right. One could easily conclude if ‘non-cooperation’ nets you a measure of punishment on an international stage, why not domestically as well. It sure as hell is working gangbusters. Cooperate, or else.
This is nothing more than garden variety extortion, period.
I can’t see American minds changing until the media becomes true. Many Americans believes everything they see on TV, I have very good friends in America who don’t have a clue what’s happening because they believe all the propaganda they are fed by the mainstream media. They have no desire to search for the truth because they must work hard and be patriotic in the way they are told to be. It’s quite sad to observe.
When U.S. plutocrats and their proxies decide what is in the interests of America, it is clearly not the same as what would be best for the citizenry as a whole. Maybe American would vote, given a choice in a referendum, to allow the destruction of civilians in our country’s wars. I hope not. Until such a vote takes place, however, it is inaccurate to say that bombing civilians is in U.S. interest.
Small correction on a double-negative, “one can make that argument cogently and honestly if not amorally,” should be either “honestly, if not morally,” or “honestly, if amorally.”
Danke
Thanks. I was troubled by that, as well.
Republished on my blog http://www.emphasisonanalysis.com/news/2015/9/13/humanitarian-wars-are-just-sophisticated-pr-us-does-not-care-about-human-rights
I’ve always seen the USA as a Discordian country. This means chaos and discord, not harmony and humanitarianism. It has been that way from the very beginning of this nation and an evolution away from that rubric will mean we are no longer the USA. How that comes about remains the biggest open ended question of my time.
As always, thank you for saying what others may only be thinking.
Or what Noam Chomsky said in nine seconds…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSkjnpHCWM0
Thanks for the link, but Chomsky did not go far enough. At the end of the statement, append “… and their elections have desired outcomes”. Examples of this include, inter alia, Chile, Venezuela, and Palestine.
Chomsky has written a lot on the subject. For example, there’s his essay titled Our Commitment to Democracy (1993). Money quote:
An equally compelling read is “Deterring Democracy ” 1981 by Chomsky, which explores the differences between the humanitarian rhetoric and imperialistic reality of United States foreign policy and how it affects various countries around the world.