The medical charity running the hospital says the U.S. was repeatedly advised of its location. This horrific strike comes days after the Saudi-led coalition bombed a wedding in Yemen that killed more than 130 people.
(updated below – Update II – Update III – Update IV – Update V)
Yesterday afternoon, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power marched to Twitter to proclaim: “We call on Russia to immediately cease attacks on Syrian oppo[sition and] civilians.” Along with that decree, she posted a statement from the U.S. and several of its closest authoritarian allies — including Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the U.K. — warning Russia that civilian casualties “will only fuel more extremism and radicalization.”
Early this morning, in the Afghan city of Kunduz, the U.S. dropped bombs on a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders (Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF)). The airstrike killed at least nine of the hospital’s medical staff, and seriously injured dozens of patients. “Among the dead was the Afghan head of the hospital, Abdul Sattar,” reported the New York Times.
Jason Cone, MSF’s executive director, said the medical charity “condemns in the strongest possible terms the horrific bombing of its hospital in Kunduz full of staff and patients.” He added that “all parties [to the] conflict, including in Kabul & Washington, were clearly informed of precise GPS Coordinates of MSF facilities in Kunduz,” and that the “precise location of MSF Kunduz hospital [was] communicated to all parties on multiple occasions over past months, including on 9/29.” Worst of all, from MSF itself:
Bombing continued for >30 minutes after American & Afghan military officials in Kabul & Washington first informed of proximity to hospital.
— MSF International (@MSF) October 3, 2015
For its part, the U.S. military in Afghanistan issued a statement acknowledging that it carried out airstrikes, claimed they were conducted “against individuals threatening the force,” and conceded that “the strike may have resulted in collateral damage to a nearby medical facility.” But the NYT reported: “From early on, the Taliban had respected the hospital’s request not to bring weapons inside, according to staff members, and the hospital had been a refuge in the shattered city of Kunduz. It was a place where the wounded from all sides were treated.”
The medical organization noted that “our hospital in Kunduz was the only one of its kind in NorthEastern Afghanistan.” It referenced a now-poignant tweet it posted earlier in the week:
Since early Monday morning, our medical teams in Kunduz, #Afghanistan have treated 252 wounded, including 53 children pic.twitter.com/hjmhYMSdpS
— MSF Canada (@MSF_canada) September 30, 2015
Now, however, the Twitter accounts of various MSF branches are filled with horrific photographs of their staff traumatized and their hospital burning as a result of U.S. bombs:
Photos of aftermath of the bombing that left 3 staff dead & many ppl wounded. #Afghanistan http://t.co/pjecwxuPSs pic.twitter.com/OnSZXwc2x9
— MSF UK Press Office (@MSF_Press) October 3, 2015
MSF’s full, frequently updated, hard-to-read account of all of this is here.
This strike on a hospital in Afghanistan comes days after the Saudi-led coalition bombed a wedding in Yemen that killed more than 130 people. After days of silence from the U.S. government — which has actively participated from the start in the heinous bombing of Yemen — Ambassador Power finally acknowledged the wedding massacre, but treated it like some natural disaster that has nothing to do with the U.S.: “Terrible news from Yemen of killing of innocent civilians & aid workers. Urgently need pol solution to crisis,” she tweeted.
Her accompanying statement claimed that “the United States has no role in the targeting decisions made by the Coalition in Yemen,” but yesterday, the Saudi Foreign Minister told CBS News that “We work with our allies including the United States on these targets.” There’s no dispute that the U.S. has lavished Saudi Arabia with all sorts of weapons and intelligence as it carries out its civilian-massacring attacks on Yemen.
This last week has been a particularly gruesome illustration of continuous U.S. conduct under the War on Terror banner, including under the Nobel Peace Prize-winning president who celebrates himself for “ending two wars” (in the same two countries where the U.S. continues to drop bombs). The formula by now is clear: bombing whatever countries it wants, justifying it all by reflexively labeling their targets as “terrorists,” and then dishonestly denying or casually dismissing the civilians they slaughter as “collateral damage.” If one were to construct a list of all the countries in the world based on their credibility to condemn Russia for using this exact rhetorical template in Syria, the U.S. would literally be last on that list.
UPDATE: U.S. officials went to Time magazine yesterday to announce that Russia will be creating more terrorists than they kill as a result of misguided airstrikes in Syria. “We believe if you inadvertently kill innocent men, women and children, then there’s a backlash from that,” said Lt. Gen. Bob Otto, the Air Force’s deputy chief of staff for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance. “We might kill three and create 10 terrorists. It really goes back to the question of are we killing more than were making?”
It’s impossible to fathom what the U.S. media would be saying and doing if Russia did something like this in Syria. By contrast, the reaction to this airstrike by their own government will be muted and filled with apologia, ironically quite similar to the widely vilified caricature of Jeb Bush’s comments about the Oregon shooting spree: “stuff happens.”
UPDATE II: Al Jazeera reports that the hospital bombed by the U.S. “is the only medical facility in the region that can deal with major injuries.” Nonetheless, “officials of MSF … told Reuters that they ‘frantically phoned’ NATO and Washington DC, as bombs rained on the hospital for ‘nearly an hour.'”
UPDATE III: The latest casualty figures from MSF:
LATEST: 16 ppl killed - 9 MSF staff, 7 patients (3 children). 37 injured - 19 staff (5 critical) & 18 patients & caretakers. #Afghanistan
— MSF UK (@MSF_uk) October 3, 2015
Speaking to the nation just three days ago about the Oregon shooting spree, Barack Obama said: “This is a political choice that we make, to allow this to happen every few months.” That applies to a lot more than that incident.
UPDATE IV: Several reports suggest that this hospital has been viewed with hostility because it treats all injured human beings, regardless of which side they’re on. “The hospital treated the wounded from all sides of the conflict, a policy that has long irked the Afghan security forces,” reports the NYT. Al Jazeera notes that “a caretaker at the hospital, who was severely injured in the air strike, told Al Jazeera that [the] clinic’s medical staff did not favor any side of the conflict. ‘We are here to help and treat civilians,’ Abdul Manar said.” That same caretaker added: “Several women and children are also killed in the strike. I could hear them screaming for help inside the hospital while it was set ablaze by the bombing. We are terrified and speechless.”
UPDATE V: The U.N. human rights chief has denounced the U.S. airstrike as “tragic, inexcusable, and possibly even criminal.”
This is not the first time this has happened. In 2004, U.S. airstrikes in Falluja, Iraq, hit a hospital and “razed it to the ground.”
Caption: A handout provided by Medecins Sans Frontieres shows MSF staff in shock in one of the remaining parts of the hospital in Kunduz in the aftermath of the bombings, Kunduz, Afghanistan, October 3, 2015.
What would you expect from a country that has dropped two atomic bombs on defenceless cities full of non-combatants just to see the effects and to demonstrate to political rivals what it was capable of?
The US is a criminal regime and has been for a century. The western media is fully complicit in all of this and that makes them just as guilty as the American political and military monsters who commit these crimes against humanity. Their breath taking hypocrisy in condemning the Russians is only to be expected. The Stars and Stripes Masonic dishrag is a symbol of tyranny and evil all over the planet.
December 31st, 2013 HOW ALTERNATIVE MEDIA INFLUENCED THE YEAR OF AWAKENING
While some see the year’s countless political scandals as a negative example of America’s current state, continued revelations and increased public knowledge of government corruption has undoubtedly made 2013 the year of awakening. Although many of the year’s major news stories can be linked to the alternative media’s expanding influence, several in particular are undoubtedly connected to a surge in the public’s awakening.
Western Governments Run Al Qaeda ‘OURS’
http://www.storyleak.com/2013-year-awakening/
General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned – Seven Countries In Five Years
“This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” I said, “Is it classified?” He said, “Yes, sir.” I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.” And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that?” He said, “Sir, I didn’t show you that memo! I didn’t show it to you!”
https://youtu.be/9RC1Mepk_Sw
General Wesley Clark Asked About 7 Country War Plan
https://youtu.be/_pGkFMho6Co
Because it’s impossible a mistake was made.
Because it’s impossible we acted on bad intelligence.
Because it’s impossible that the US military isn’t a hive-mind, where everyone is a voracious baby-killer.
Because it’s impossible that the pilots involved acted contrary to orders.
It’s just absolutely beyond conception a mistake was made. The US is just evil. No other nation, just America. We’re uniquely evil and everything in the world is our fault.
“We’re uniquely evil and everything in the world is our fault.”
Are you going to deny that we are uniquely in a position to do more damage than any other nation?
It goes with being the sole superpower. Nobody ever stands in front of the cameras and shouts “Death to Trinidad and Tobago!”
Pretty much. Although Assad has also picked up a bad habit of bombing hospitals in rebel territory: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/the-syrian-government-is-systematically-targeting-hospitals#.bp0QeAvk3
So says the western media, and we can depend on them can’t we?
Yeah, pretty much. Even though it is those in government, not actual human beings, who are directly responsible, much blame can be distributed through the main population: Republicans who keep buying the “strong national defense” bullshit as an excuse to maintain bases in over 186 countries, continue instituting wars against anyone we don’t like (or Israel doesn’t like); the hundreds of thousands directly and indirectly employed by the war industry who benefit from – and agitate for – these wars in order to keep the profits flowing. Democrats, for supporting the same things, while trying to pretend they care about people.
You – because you are in denial and refuse to admit the possibility that you are being ruled by a clique of war criminals.
Good point, an Afghan forward air controller feeds a line of digits/shit to fire control that targets a group that a grudge is held against. Firing coordinates move at the speed of light and in war/battle there is no speed limit, nothing is sure and no place is safe. Crime, all wars are a crime. That is why a full vote in congress is supposed to make declaring war difficult. When our Constitutional safe guards fail we are much more likely to kill to settle another’s feud, murder by bequest.
What part of “officials of MSF … told Reuters that they ‘frantically phoned’ NATO and Washington DC, as bombs rained on the hospital for ‘nearly an hour’” do you NOT understand? The GPS coordinates were in the hands of our military. Why do you choose to be daft? Have you no shame?
Morality of war and this war aside; once a firing solution is locked in to a closed loop command and control structure, it is not a fast fix from outside that loop. NATO and DC would be playing catch up down through the chain of command. Once done not so easily undone, time lost, lives lost, when it goes wrong if not directly in the loop there will be delay, no fast fix.
Jeb! comment “stuff happens” is echoing from Oregon to Afghanistan. Even the State Department and Defense Department stooges are adding their vocal mimicry.
That’s the connection I want Glenn to make, between our media modeling learned helplessness at home and abroad to do a damn thing about this shite. Just more guns seems to be “the solution.”
This is surely every jihadist recruiter’s dream come true.
The international medical aid group Doctors Without Borders is blaming U.S-allied forces for a deadly attack on one of its hospitals in Afghanistan. NPR’s Michel Martin talks with the executive director of Doctors Without Borders, Jason Cone, about the latest developments in the incident.
Quote to Samantha Power
“Even before the military operation in Syria, the General staff of the Defense Ministry made a responsible decision. The essence of this solution lies in our traditional Russian desire to adhere strictly to the principles of legality and justice. So now, all of our munitions are divided into two categories: regular and moderate. Against ordinary terrorists, we use only conventional munitions. Against moderate terrorists, we use solely moderate ammunition. So don’t worry, we take into account the moderation of some of the terrorists and treat them with justice.”
After these words, I felt relieved. But I still asked: “Do you really use exclusively moderate ammo against moderate terrorists, is this true?!”
The source said: “Word of honor!”.
I felt much better. To clarify, I asked: “Tell me, how your conventional munitions differ from the moderate?”
“Our conventional munitions differ from moderate exactly the same as regular terrorists in Syria are different from the moderate terrorists: they are painted with different paint, in a lighter and more moderate tones,” – said the officer and hung up.
The US military, US government and State Department could not look worse than they do now after this deliberate targeting of the Medicine Sans Frontiers hospital in Afghanistan. Notice the total lack of coverage in HuffPo, or other mainstream media. At the same time Obama’s staff is bitching about Russia causing civilian casualties in Syria in bombing runs, the US air force blows up a neutral hospital! Not only that, the staff of Medicine Sans Frontieres were in contact via telephone for an HOUR during the deliberate bombing of the hospital! The US government and military absolutely knew what they were doing when they blew up that hospital. I really hate Samantha power, what a lying arrogant bitch.
It’s good to read someone actually orchestrating the internal anger I have towards the amerikunt military complex who regard any use of weapons as a profitable venture/good for business. Just another massacre by a nation who praise death-culture above all else because their populous are blinkered into a belief system that there society & rulers know a righteous path & can do no wrong. I find this site refreshing for its apt statements on the tyranny that usa_naziland has & no doubt will do around the world.
“Ambassador Power finally acknowledged the wedding massacre, but treated it like some natural disaster that has nothing to do with the U.S.: “Terrible news from Yemen of killing of innocent civilians & aid workers. Urgently need pol solution to crisis,” she tweeted.
Her accompanying statement claimed that “the United States has no role in the targeting decisions made by the Coalition in Yemen,” but yesterday, the Saudi Foreign Minister told CBS News that “We work with our allies including the United States on these targets.” There’s no dispute that the U.S. has lavished Saudi Arabia with all sorts of weapons and intelligence as it carries out its civilian-massacring attacks on Yemen.”
Yikes! What a twisted shrew of a woman. Totally devoid of any shred of humanity. Of course, that’s why this neoconservative freak is where she is.
not a neocon a liberal interventionist
Say you gave the gun to the Oregon shooter who shot up his classmates. After the shooting, you said, he did it, not me. I have no role in targeting decisions – what he decides to do with the gun. Would anyone buy it? Wouldn’t everyone think that you were completely responsible? How is that different than Samantha Power?
#bringourtroopshome The Middle East has problems that the Middle East needs to solve. We have problems here that we need to solve. See how these disasters could be avoided? #standwithrand
JLocke: Excellent analogy. I had a chance to meet and shake hands with Westmoreland in Nha Trang. My attitude was fuck him, as I never had any use for him. No regrets on not doing so.
US / McCain, ” bomb, bomb, bomb…….”
24 hours before this bombing I wrote an article that quoted the Executive Director of Doctors Without Borders at length talking about why humanitarian NGOs cannot partner with the military! Was a weird coincidence. Love your writing Glenn, you’ve really influenced my point of view, along with Chomsky of course.
http://tysongibb.net/?p=156
from March 2012
The Massacre of the Afghan 17 and the Obama Cover-Up
http://petras.lahaine.org/?p=1893
see “‘Many were involved in Kandahar killings, not sole soldier’”
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail.fa/232182.html
from November 2009:
A troop surge can only magnify the crime against Afghanistan
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/30/obama-afghanistan-troops
test.
I love the Brookings institute, such experts, Here’s Michael E. O’Hanlon, he doesn’t even remember the Vietnam war, or he couldn’t have written this:
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/order-from-chaos/posts/2015/10/04-kunduz-hospital-tragedy-ohanlon
“The light at the end of the tunnel” metaphor, for those of you who aren’t Brookings institute defence experts, evokes the propaganda of the American empire of the sixties.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/18/AR2005071801713.html
Back then, the light at the end of the tunnel, after years of trying to rule
Vietnam, turned out to be, a oncoming freight train.
But O’Harlan for some reason wants to use it again after, what is it? Fourteen years of US war in Afghanistan. Just one more battle, a few more troops, and you’ll see, America’s puppet government, will any day now, be able to stand on it’s own against the Taliban,
(The Taliban, you know the guys who were ruling Afghanistan before the Americans arrived, and who seem the most motivated to rule it after the Americans leave. )
So, anyway, except for this latest ‘hospital tragedy” as O’Hanlon puts it, things are looking up, just like the Vietnam war was looking promising for the Americans, in ’67.
“Hospital tragedy”! I love that!
Makes it sound like a soap.
Next week on “General Hospital – Kunduz Wing”…Will Luke and Laura get back together….after being blown apart by a US aircraft?
Now that’s what I call ObamaCare.
The post [lightly] edited for accuracy:
“Mr. Greenwald
[Sickeningly] enough, [according to the US government, the whole world] is a WAR ZONE. It’s clear that [I don’t care if non-white, non-American] civilians are going to be killed by [my] sides, but what you will never read in one of [my rants] or especially in one of [my disgusting diatribes of unrelated non-sequiturs] is the [truth about] civilian casualties by the US:
“……The US is responsible for hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths……”
So the [US and its proxies] are (by far) the largest violators for the indiscriminate murder of civilians in [the world] – and there were [way over] 10,000 civilians killed in [US sponsored wars in] 2014. No other fighting force comes even close. [No other] international fighting force accounted for [so many] of the civilian deaths. So [downplaying] the bombing of the hospital serves [my] political agenda, but clearly, [I] have blown [my little wad] completely out of [desperation as I try to ignore all of] the UN numbers on [US enabled and caused] civilian deaths – and strictly for political purposes.
“…….Several reports suggest that this hospital has been viewed with hostility because it treats all injured human beings, regardless of which side they’re on. “The hospital treated the wounded from all sides of the conflict, a policy that has long irked the Afghan security forces,” reports the NYT. Al Jazeera notes that “a caretaker at the hospital, who was severely injured in the air strike, told Al Jazeera that clinic’s medical staff did not favour any side the conflict. ‘We are here to help and treat civilians,’ Abdul Manar said.”…..”
What [I am cravenly] implying without a link is that the US bombed the hospital [accidentally, or justifiably, or incidentally, or that it’s really no big deal, or something like that]. Where is the link, Mr. [Summers] (or evidence, [or decency, or compassion, or shame)[ you ask]? [pfffffttt…get real:] the bombing of the hospital violates international law. The targeting of medical personnel anywhere (on or off of the battlefield) violates international law.
[So I acknowledge this barbaric act was a war crime as I try to defend this war crime. But this is neither the first time the US has violated international law, nor the last time I will contradict myself with literally no self-awareness of the amoral depravity nested within my irrational claims].”
Let us keep bombing/droning people of color and further inflame the self fueled extremism that we have fostered since Osama was our buddy and a “freedom fighter” on our side against the Russians in Afghanistan. We are sowing what we will ultimately reap, AND neither party gives a shit because it is all about the military complex.
Signed,
A disgusted and ashamed American
Ignorant bastard. Typical U.S. “people of colour” do you mean to say you have no colour? when outside of that country of broken English the U.S. people in Africa, say about the U.S. expression people of colour they say “we are black you are sometimes white you are sometimes pink you are sometimes brownish we are black! and you are “people of colour”. People from the Middle East are not people of colour and they are not black. Just because some ignorant cunt on U.S. television once said people of colour that is no reason for you to copy that ignorant cunt.
Update #6: MSF has announced that they are pulling out of Afghanistan. Who could possibly blame them?
Meantime, both the US Führer, . . er, President, and Secretary of War . ., er, Defence, have promised investigations. No doubt these will be like the other investigations conducted by the US, according to rules developed by the Israelis, which will conclude that no such event ever took place, or, if it did, it was perpetrated by the other side in a vain attempt to discredit us. In this case, evidence will be presented on Fox News and published in the New York Times, showing aircraft of the Taliban air force being painted with US insignia, and Taliban bombs having their markings altered to make them look like they are of US manufacture. Those pointing out that the Taliban have no air force will be shouted down or perhaps detained for in-terror-gation. [spelling deliberate].
RUSSIA and CHINA are the Last Hope for Western Christian Democratic Civilization.
Witnessing and understanding the kind of “civilization” Christians have given us over the millernia, I’ll opt for a secular humanist one.
Ghouls without regard for human life. Blech!
There was a letter released last year signed by dozens of US generals saying that attacking hospitals, schools, shelters etc was ethical and just how modern wars are fought. Of course they were referring to Israel attacking hospitals in Gaza but if you can justify it there and the American people are fine with it you can bet they will try the same thing in this case.
The world needs to stand together against the genocide being conducted by the US.
“MSF is disgusted by the recent statements coming from some Afghanistan government authorities justifying the attack on its hospital in Kunduz. These statements imply that Afghan and US forces working together decided to raze to the ground a fully functioning hospital with more than 180 staff and patients inside because they claim that members of the Taliban were present.
http://cdn.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/msf-response-spurious-claims-kunduz-hospital-was-taliban-base
Mr. Greenwald I need a job.
So here is the story Jalalabad airport is a U.S military base were members of the U.N travel to and from almost exclusively, however a military cargo plane C-130 carrying 5 civilians from the U.N was attacked right before take off yesterday morning the U.S military officials claims no evidence of an attack took place however the Taliban seem to be better informed and claimed it was a Islamist attack, no one else has yet to make this affiliation publicly. At first I suspected the hospital itself as being the primary target for bombing, now I believe the wounded from that downed plane was the real target whoever was on that plane did not die from the attack on the cargo plane and was rushed to the only hospital for miles in Kunduz that just happened to be bombed by Americans. God I am good!
Those civilians that survived the ambush at the military base had such valuable information that the Americans felt it was imperative to destroy that location. The Taliban take direct orders from the C.I.A and this is common knowledge in this region, the C.I.A has classified the Taliban as a Moderate threat verses the ISIS threat which is essentially the C.I.A as well, who has crafted a business model of how to commit the perfect coup.
“…….Those civilians that survived the ambush at the military base had such valuable information that the Americans felt it was imperative to destroy that location. The Taliban take direct orders from the C.I.A and this is common knowledge in this region, the C.I.A has classified the Taliban as a Moderate threat verses the ISIS threat which is essentially the C.I.A as well, who has crafted a business model of how to commit the perfect coup…..”
“……Mr. Greenwald I need a job…..”
Your mindset is perfect. You are clearly imminently qualified. I suggest you send him your resume.
Hey Craig. .. While I seriously doubt the Taliban is taking ‘direct orders’ from the CIA, I did hear Sen. McCain yesterday say the Free Syrian Army … “is a CIA-run operation” (unquote).
Perhaps the writer above is simply confused about which terrorist group “is a CIA-run operation”?
Why this couldn’t be an accident;
……..MSF’s trauma center in Kunduz in Afghanistan had been subjected to an armed intrusion on Wednesday, 1 July 2015. The center had been forced to close because the patient and staff safety could not be guaranteed.
Heavily armed soldiers stepped into the hospital which is a -weapon-free zone,fired in the air, attacked medical staff at gunpoint, beat three employees , seized three patients and left the hospital after one hour.
“This serious incident puts lives at stake for the thousands of people who need to be confident that they can get emergency care of us, says Bart Jansson, who has operational responsibility for the organization’s efforts.”
I really hope Mr Bart Jansson survived the recent attack.
“……Despite the ongoing conflict, the staff has previously been able to work there without any problems because the conflict parties supported the work of the organization.
MSF has now requested a confirmation from the Afghan authorities that healthcare interventions are respected.” July 2015
Maybe The Norwegian Nobel Committee can request an explanation from obama.
Dr Bart Janssens, MSF Director of Operations.
What are we doing in Afghanistan where we were ready to bomb a hospital or anywhere in that country. Is the Taliban or Daesh/ISIL really so much worse than Saudi Arabia? We can’t live with this country, Syria, Libya, Iraq determining its own outcome? I think we can.
Will we ever learn that we can’t force our definition of stability on a country demanding they be an ally on our own self serving terms.
Overthrowing a government, giving weapons and training isn’t going to endear anybody to us. We’ve made it clear the motivation behind our efforts “to help” is domination. They’re still the conquered. There is no way this is going to work in our or the worlds favor ever.
Taking out regimes because they defied us or because they’re allies with Russia, Iran or China is coming from a very weak and desperate position and
it shows. Paranoid decisions, like preemptive attacks have a tendency to create what they fear. Why would china, Russia and Iran sit back when its obvious we’re preparing at least to be able to target them in some way in
the future. This is so stupid and unnecessary.
If we wanted allies and the absence of trouble from Russia, Iran and China
we could have achieved a lot more by much less stunning hypocrisy and mindless aggression and far more shocking and awesome kindness. :)
Personally I think we could withdraw from this war effort and if we had to be involved we could send even half of what we spent in the form of gifts or even money to individuals in all of the countries we are trying to overturn. Something to that effect. No shame in admitting we screwed up.
However we decided to be decent, if we had trouble because of it, at least we would be justified in reacting, that is if it was a reaction that made sense unlike what has happened after 9/11.
We need to get out of the regime change and nation building business like now. Whether we go the Obama CIA/JSOC route or the more overt Bush/Clinton approach, regime change and nation building is only succeeding at creating an environment that makes ww3 more likely. We coudl start by taking advantage of Russia stepping into Syria and make leaving something we both decided, shaking hands and whatnot.
“What are we doing in Afghanistan where we were ready to bomb a hospital or anywhere in that country.”
Well, according to some sources (you need to research them yourself) we are trying to secure the country for the sake of a gas pipeline.
Others might say that we’re trying to make sure that this area stays under U.S. control and domination, and within its sphere of influence.
What ever the reason is, I can assure you we most certainly aren’t there for the well being of the civilian population of Afghanistan.
Our “leaders” in D.C. could give a rat’s ass about that . . . no matter how much their public posturing, rhetoric, and protestations to the contrary might suggest otherwise.
During the Soviet war in Afghanistan my group operated a hospital along the border of Afghanistan. Our hospital room was marked with the red cross. Was the hospital roof in Kunduz also marked with the red cross so that all aircraft in the area would know it was a medical facility
Even if it was not marked, with today’s technology there is no excuse for what happened. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was some sick plan to screw everyone in the area by purposefully partially destroying the medical facility.
The attack took place at night, in the dark. What relevance would a painted red cross have under such conditions?
And . . . .
The spokesman for the Doctors Without Borders group has stated that they had previously supplied the people behind this air attack with the hospital’s GPS coordinates. So, whoever ordered this attack, had been adequately put on notice as to the nature of the target.
You don’t need a red cross marked, it would be of no use. In the 1980s that might have been the way but today everyone in the conflict had the GPS coordinates of the hospital. Your projectiles are sent not by bombardiers but my computers, which just read the coordinates a human provides them with.
No, GPS coordinates would not need to be used if in fact the attacking plane was an AC-130 as reported. As I mentioned in my earlier post – Google AC-130 to understand how it operates. Close range – devastating fire power.
You are partially incorrect. The AC-130 does have and uses GPS. It knows where it is, and has the ability to target based on GPS coordinates.
I’ll put it this way. If a Spectre gunship were tasked with reducing your house to rubble, they’d be given your GPS coordinates so they could be sure of what they were shooting at. Conversely, they could be told to take out the entire block, but spare your house.
No, do you know why, because on idiot would think it was a target symbol.
MSF had provided GPS coordinates of the hospital to NATO, the US, and the Afghan government, following a practice that they had long ago established. Any modern attack aircraft would thus be able to determine from the air that they were targeting the hospital. Furthermore, many guided munitions are fed the target’s GPS coordinates, and so anyone following due diligence would not target the hospital with them.
Similar protocols were followed by the UN during the recent attacks on Gaza by Israel, with similar results. The Israelis argued that the UN hospitals and schools were being used by Hamas, so the hell with the children, sick people and medical personnel. While MSF has stated that the Taliban had agreed not to attack the Kunduz hospital nor use it as a base, I feel confident that the US will justify the attack, stating that wounded Taliban soldiers, or if not that wounded Taliban sympathizers, were being treated there.
The rules of war had been that one did not bomb hospitals, even military ones. The Allies and Axis air forces did a pretty good – but not perfect – job of following that during World War 2, and most if not all of the hits on hospitals and schools could be blamed on weapon dispersion. Since then, we have reduced the CEP of our bombs from 500 yards to 5 feet, and yet things like this happen. It cannot be accidental.
about as accidental as the 5 cruise missiles that hit a chinese embassy. oops. our bad. solly!
“Unspeakable”: An MSF Nurse Recounts the Attack on MSF’s Kunduz Hospital
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/unspeakable-msf-nurse-recounts-attack-msfs-kunduz-hospital
Ha, ha, ha!
Il Duce’s sarcasm is so good that at times it feels like it is feeding your dark side
RCL
From the Washington Post’s Tim Craig October 3rd:
“The bombs hit, and then we heard the plane circle round,” said Heman Nagarathnam, who is the charity’s head of programs in northern Afghanistan. “There was a pause, and then more bombs hit. This happened again and again. When I made it out from the office, the main hospital building was engulfed in flames.”
This was not an accident…
It is different when “we” do for many important reasons which you don’t seem to see; among them: because “we” do it freedom-lovingly and also because “God is telling us to do so” …
Great Lord! How could you even compare us with those freedom-hating, Russian Russians?
USG
That’s right.
Plus, “we” are the “good guys.” Therefore,, NOTHING we can do can ever be evil, venal, murderous, self-interested, etc. . . . . even when, on the surface, it might appear to be.
While others (like Putin and Russia) are the “bad guys,” and therefore EVERYTHING they do–including when we haven’t actually PROVEN they’ve done it, but have only accused them of doing it–comes straight from the Devil.
When you understand that this is the TRUE NATURE of reality, then you can go about your day, watching Good Morning America, buying the latest IPhone, obsessing on Kim Kardashian, watching sports on television, and monitoring your stock portfolio . . . like any other successful and “patriotic” American does.
This was no accident. Reports are now suggesting (CNN,Reuters,Huffpost) that an Air Force AC-130 did the deed. Google AC-130. This is not a plane letting loose bombs from high altitude, nor is it an F-16 streaking past at 600 mph. This is a killing machine, circling its target at a rather slow speed, unleashing its variety of ordnance. Reports also suggest it remained on target for over an hour…This was no accident.
This is a tragedy. War is a tragedy. I don’t believe anyone tried to bomb a hospital. I believe it was a tragic accident and at this time all that is appropriate is mourning for the lost souls. These were the best of us at this hospital. In the middle of a war, here are doctors and volunteers risking everything to help others…the men and women who died in this terrible tragedy are true heroes, and we need to honor them, mourn, ask forgiveness of their families for this terrible mistake, and move on. War is so ugly…this isn’t the movies. Many terrible things happen in real war zones. It’s unfair and there is no way to really fix this…
“I don’t believe anyone tried to bomb a hospital.”
No, you’re right. No one “bombed” the hospital. They just intentionally ATTACKED it with an AC-130, even after people from the organization tried to get D.C. on the phone and tell them to call off the attack.
“I believe it was a tragic accident . . . .”
Why would you believe this? What is it in you that would make you even WANT to believe this?
Also, I’m curious: Are you willing to extend the same “grace” to the Russians, whom the United States has accused of attacking civilians in Syria??
If not, please explain the apparent double-standard.
“Why would you believe this?”
Why would s/he believe this?
Because s/he’s naive. As her entire comment demonstrates.
You’re probably right.
Sadly, when it comes to the actions of their own government, so many in the United States are just like her.
The MSF doctors frantically phoned NATO and Washington DC, begging for the bombing to stop, for an hour, but it didn’t.
Clearly not a mistake. And reminiscent of Israel bombing UNWRA shelters housing refugees in GAZA, after UNWRA made 17 phone calls to the IDF to make certain the IDF had their coordinates, knew they were sheltering, women, children and civilians, and the IDF bombed them anyway.
Really, America is as bad as Israel.
MMM. That Kool-Aid sure is refreshing on a balmy Autumn day.
They did and they succeeded.. the only question is why. The latest seems to be that the ANA ordered the targeting of this hospital.. despite the fact that the US knew it’s location they went ahead and proceeded to bomb it.. Not a single bomb but continuous bombing for 30 minutes until only rubble remained..Bombing a hospital is a war crime when it is being used to treat the sick and wounded or shelter civilians.
Don’t quit your day job, “Princess.”
You are getting a little nasty Dabney.
Compared to what, Craig? You?
Referring to a female as “Princess” is sexist to begin with – and is hardly any kind of a political argument. Your response was really in bad taste.
I just realized that the military plane that had contractors on it in Kunduz was attacked upon landing well before the hospital bombing, no one else has yet to make this affiliation publicly. At first I suspected the hospital itself as being the primary target for bombing, now I believe the wounded from that downed plane was the real target whoever was on that plane did not die from the attack and was rushed to the only hospital for miles in Kunduz that just happened to be bombed by Americans. God I am good!
Pretty remarkable considering the limits of GPS targeting some have been preaching in these precincts.
Saw this in the NYT… 9/11/15
“Everyone knows who the minister of defense is in Afghanistan now, and it is not Masoom Stanekzai,” said one Western diplomat, naming the Afghan official whose nomination as defense minister was rejected by the Parliament but who was kept on as the acting minister. “The American combat role may be over, but you still have an American general running the war.”
Has anyone checked whether there was an important Taliban figure among the patients (which would make this even worse, because they would have known exactly what they were doing)
I can think of only two govts that can commit such shocking, horrendous acts of death/destruction on neutral territory without being held accountable……..
US govt for bombing a hospital and Israeli govt for bombing UN school….and using the same kind of bloody excuses..
And to hope for some kind of acceptance of culpability is to live on another planet.
And why should anyone be surprised at the govt’s hypocrisy?? That has been the Modus Operandi as far as I can remember….
ps One can not forget the bombing of only drug making facility ( Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory ) in Sudan…..critics of the attack have estimated that up to tens of thousands of Sudanese civilians died throughout Sudan as the supply of necessary drugs was cut off ).
Glenn, your title is a little too short. Here, I’ve fixed it for you:
One Day After Warning Russia of Civilian Casualties, the U.S. Bombs a Hospital in Afghanistan where our historic Peace President ended the US war.
I am still trying to understand why the US is dropping any bomb in Afghanistan and what the U.S.’s business is there anyway. Just another tragedy in the name of… (freedom?) (security?) (making the world safe for democracy?) (????)
The US is ‘in Afghanistan’ to capture or kill Osama bin Laden … who they killed in Pakistan about 4 years ago.
The U.S. is bombing Afghanistan to liberate the population – from their bodies.
It was only twenty four hours, after the usa governance and its jewish owned media use propaganda as news that was not even confirmed, before the U.S. Bombs a Hospital in Afghanistan. LIES IN HYPOCRESY BEFORE DURING AND AFTER complements of the ziomasonsatanist governance o f the JUew.S.A.. Dear world wake up or is it too late already?
The greatest usa-propaganda I have ever seen in my life. How could ISIS not get strenghten by the USA government funding and founding ISIS in foreign ground creating terrorist organizations. Even the kosher founders and funders are speaking LIES IN HYPOCRESY under official public office. Disgusting is short. the land of the free or the land that funds and founds terrorist organizationas as false fronts?
Vladimir Putin is a thorn of standing for what is right side against the kosher puppets, infiltrators and false front kind of klans. – Alejandro Grace Ararat.
Well Done Russian and get all the picture inteligence on these puppets and infiltrators of the false front of ISIS that was and is funded and founded by the jUew.S.A and do not let any of these puppets and false fronts of the the jewish mossad and secret inteligence of the usa escape much less do not let them flee. Thank you Mr. Vladimir Putin for getting rid of clandestine organized terrorisn by the 1%(corrupt in public office or cherry ziomasonsatanist military echelons and their clandestine bosses)
Also remember that the jUew.S.A and satanjewhoo wanted to know every russian military operation in order to sabotage russia defending what is right because these criminals in public office attire play all kinds of puppets and false fronts while the people remain in ignorance of their corrupt ways having their foot and false fronts in all places in order to deceive the masses as it is the habit of the corrupt rothschilds kind of klans. Wake up people.
https://youtu.be/EXA1IRVV4Qc
jUew.S.A, satanjewhoo, ziomasonsatanist,… I really doubt that kind of language is going to win you any hearts and minds.
The USA will bomb a hospital and murder 20 innocent humans and injure many more just to kill 1 person that they want dead. They are the world’s leader in murdering innocent people. In the past 50 years they have killed almost 2 million innocent men, women and children. No nation or group murders more innocent people then the USA does. The USA is the leading TERRORIST in the world today. I pray that God will forgive the USA for killing 1 million+ innocent Asians (Vietnam War) and 1/2 million innocent Arabs (Iraq and Afghanistan).
Why would you pray for forgiveness for the USA? Isn’t there a little thing called repentance involved? I see no evidence of that forthcoming.
Rather than assume that everyone in the US government is in a methamphetamine frenzy, shooting at boogie men, perhaps President Obama is merely proving the futility of bombing campaigns to Putin. Then again, the typical American response to any problem is to attack it with lethal force.
I get it: More of that brilliant “eleven dimensional chess” from Obama.
Engaging in war crimes himself just so he can illustrate to Putin their futility and horror.
Why didn’t I think of this myself?
@MSF_USANot a single member of our staff reported any fighting inside #MSF hospital compound prior to US airstrike on Saturday morning.
Glenn Greenwald is a Taliban apologist.
Mr. Greenwald
Strangely enough, Afghanistan is a WAR ZONE. It’s clear that civilians are going to be killed by both sides, but what you will never read in the Intercept or in especially in one of your articles is the report on civilian casualties by the UN (2014):
“……The UNAMA report highlighted that ‘Anti-Government Elements’ remain responsible for 72 per cent of all civilian casualties. Meanwhile, Pro-Government Forces are responsible for 14 per cent of civilian casualties with 12 per cent of that linked to the Afghan national security forces and two per cent to international military forces……”
So the Pakistan-supported Taliban are (by far) the largest violators for the indiscriminate murder of civilians in Afghanistan – and there were 10,000 civilians killed in 2014. No other fighting force comes even close. The international fighting force accounted for only 2% of the civilian deaths. So the bombing of the hospital serves your political agenda, but clearly, you have blown the incident completely out of proportion relative to the UN numbers on civilian deaths – and strictly for political purposes.
“…….Several reports suggest that this hospital has been viewed with hostility because it treats all injured human beings, regardless of which side they’re on. “The hospital treated the wounded from all sides of the conflict, a policy that has long irked the Afghan security forces,” reports the NYT. Al Jazeera notes that “a caretaker at the hospital, who was severely injured in the air strike, told Al Jazeera that clinic’s medical staff did not favour any side the conflict. ‘We are here to help and treat civilians,’ Abdul Manar said.”…..”
What you are implying without a link is that the US bombed the hospital purposely to punish the hospital for treating Taliban casualties. Where is the link, Mr. Greenwald (or evidence)? The bombing of the hospital violates international law. The targeting of medical personnel anywhere (on or off of the battlefield) violates international law.
Independent of what others are doing, I for one do not want my government bombing hospitals. Nor do I want it engaging in this kind hypocrisy : condemning others for what it is doing. I think at the very least this incident is a tragic avoidable accident, and it might be much worse.
“…….Independent of what others are doing, I for one do not want my government bombing hospitals……and it might be much worse…..”
Evidence Mike. I know that’s just a minor detail – especially for a lawyer.
Excuse me? The hospital was bombed. The US did it, however it happened.
Are you the lawyer? I certainly am not.
We know the U.S. bombed. A hospital. Greenwald implied this was done purposely. That is a whole different question – and an important one. No evidence to support his contention at this point.
“No evidence to support” the “contention” that it was done “purposely” at this point?
Really?
So, let me see: the AC-130 just “accidentally” found itself in the skies above the hospital, and then had its guidance systems somehow magically frozen so that it kept circling around and firing on the same target for 30 minutes, repeatedly sending salvos into the hospital, and did so EVEN AFTER people from MSF had supplied the authorities with their hospital GPS coordinates, . . . and had even called D.C. to get the attacks to stop once they began?
Thanks for making me think about these things, Craig. If it weren’t for you, I might believe that the things that guided policy-makers in the United States at the topmost levels were things like evil, greed, hypocrisy, murder, hatred, corruption, and the overall quest for dominance-no-matter-what.
“…….So, let me see: the AC-130 just “accidentally” found itself in the skies above the hospital, and then had its guidance systems somehow magically frozen so that it kept circling around and firing on the same target for 30 minutes, repeatedly sending salvos into the hospital, and did so EVEN AFTER people from MSF had supplied the authorities with their hospital GPS coordinates, . . . and had even called D.C. to get the attacks to stop once they began?…..”
You are a great non biased news source (“…….If it weren’t for you, I might believe that the things that guided policy-makers in the United States at the topmost levels were things like evil, greed, hypocrisy, murder, hatred, corruption, and the overall quest for dominance-no-matter-what…..”). I am certainly willing to read any links you might have. In the mean time, I also might consider waiting for the results of the official investigation.
Thanks though.
I think he implied no such thing, but rather pointed out the hospital might be viewed with hostility based on “reports”.
Actually, Greenwakd didn’t imply anything , he reported what the hospital staff witnessed: A US military plane makng repeated bombing runs over the hospital even as they contacted Washington D.C to inform the US governemnt that it was bombing a hospital for an hour.
The evidence would be this eyewitness account by hospital staff.
I’m not a lawyer either, but eyewitness testimony is admissable as evidence in US courts.
“Where is the … evidence” of American intent? That’s a common, but specious line of inquiry, given that you know it is the US military who holds whatever evidence there is. And if that evidence put the US in a bad light, a transparent and public accounting is–with past as prologue–hardly likely. Further, with your expertise in assiduously defending the US government, you also know that any intent behind “targeting” can be sliced and diced in all sorts of self-exculpatory ways. You’re likely right that there will be no explicit order, “Bomb the hospital.” But with the facts and circumstances known so far, a claim of deliberate indifference can be made to stick easily enough.
“…….But with the facts and circumstances known so far, a claim of deliberate indifference can be made to stick easily enough…..”
Right. On a fringe left site like this one, convictions of convenience are common without any supporting evidence. How about these incidences?
“……U.S. forces bombed an Afghan army facility Monday morning in eastern Afghanistan’s Logar province, killing at least seven Afghan soldiers and wounding five others, American and Afghan officials said……If confirmed, Monday’s mistaken airstrike would be the second such “friendly fire” incident to hit Afghan army forces in less than two years. On March 6, 2014, an early morning NATO airstrike killed five Afghan army personnel in the same province…..”
Friendly fire incidents are common in a war zone. Mistakes happen. There is no evidence at the moment that the US bombed the hospital on purpose. The same for deliberate indifference.
“Mistakes happen.” Indeed. And they keep happening even after the military is told that what it’s shooting up is a hospital.
Your reference to “a fringe left site like this one,” whatever that even means, suggests that you really shouldn’t be wasting your time here. Warrior that you are in the cause of western civilization, surely there are more fertile battlefields for you … other than the real ones, of course.
“……Your reference to “a fringe left site like this one,” whatever that even means, suggests that you really shouldn’t be wasting your time here. Warrior that you are in the cause of western civilization, surely there are more fertile battlefields for you … other than the real ones, of course…..”
Either provide some kind of evidence or not – but quit whining, OK?
“fringe left site”
Hmmm.
Ad hominem alert.
Since you, Craig, seem to be in the business of throwing incendiary labels around to discredit a source you don’t like (and yet, curiously, obsessively keep visiting . . . if for no other reason than to “enlighten” it with your take on “truth”), would I therefore be justified in referring to you as a “fascist,” or a “neo-Nazi” to discredit your points of view?
Just asking.
Also, Craig, are you willing to extend to the Russians the same presumption of “good faith” with respect to innocent civilians (allegedly) killed by their bombing of Syria that you seem to willing to extend to members of your own government?
“…….would I therefore be justified in referring to you as a “fascist,” or a “neo-Nazi” to discredit your points of view?….”
You name it and I have been called it on this site – and they have used any available means to discredit my point of view. Call me what you want. I don’t care.
“……Also, Craig, are you willing to extend to the Russians the same presumption of “good faith” with respect to innocent civilians (allegedly) killed by their bombing of Syria that you seem to willing to extend to members of your own government?….”
Sure. I am certain the Russians, Iranians and Lebanese/Hezbollah have been acting in good faith propping up the brutal dictator Assad in Syria with weapons, intelligence, manpower and funding. Assad is responsible for crushing the Arab Spring in Syria as noted by Amnesty International:
“…….Background: When army tanks recently rolled into the city of Dera’a in southern Syria and began shelling residential areas, the human rights crisis in the country reached a new low. More than 400 people have died across Syria since protestors calling for political reform took to the streets in mid-March. Hundreds of people have been arbitrarily arrested and detained incommunicado, placing them at serious risk of torture and other ill-treatment. Torture of detainees has long been common and endemic in Syria…..Amnesty International has repeatedly urged the Syrian government to rein in the security forchttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/uk-editiones……The Syrian authorities have failed to take these steps and intensified repression. Consequently, Amnesty International has called on the UN Security Council to refer Syria to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, to impose an arms embargo and to freeze the assets abroad of the Syrian President and his senior associates…”
Amnesty International report 2015 (Guardian):
Bashar al-Assad’s Syrian regime is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity by systematically using barrel bombs to kill civilians and destroy infrastructure in Aleppo, says Amnesty International….The accusations come in a report released on Tuesday, two days after the regime bombed a school and community centre in a rebel-held district in the city where students were sitting exams…..Philip Luther, Amnesty’s Middle East and North Africa director, said in a statement: “Widespread atrocities, in particular the vicious and unrelenting aerial bombardment of civilian neighbourhoods by government forces….“….point to a policy of deliberately and systematically targeting civilians in attacks that constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity.” He added: “By relentlessly and deliberately targeting civilians…..
The Syrian government has been accused of using chemical weapons, barrel bombs and chlorine gas on civilian populations. These actions are supported by the Russian government for geopolitical reasons. Over 300,000 people have died in the conflict which is solely the responsibility of ASSad.
You will never read this in the Intercept which is basically a subsidiary of RT.
Paragraph beginning below should be in quotes:
“……….Bashar al-Assad’s Syrian regime is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity by systematically using barrel bombs to kill civilians and destroy infrastructure in Aleppo, says Amnesty International….The accusations come in a report released on Tuesday, two days after the regime bombed a school and community centre in a rebel-held district in the city where students were sitting exams…..Philip Luther, Amnesty’s Middle East and North Africa director, said in a statement: “Widespread atrocities, in particular the vicious and unrelenting aerial bombardment of civilian neighbourhoods by government forces….“….point to a policy of deliberately and systematically targeting civilians in attacks that constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity.” He added: “By relentlessly and deliberately targeting civilians……..”
” On a fringe left site like this one…”
Right, because truth and accountablility in even an ersatz democracy is a fringe leftist concept.
“…….Right, because truth and accountablility in even an ersatz democracy is a fringe leftist concept……”
No, truth and accountability are important concepts in a democracy – just not on this site.
And this site is not interested nor embodies transparency? It hides the truth amidst propaganda? It’s authors and publishers are motivated by subterfuge?
Go onm tell me it’s true!
Whenever a country is destabilized by a foreign power, it’s not uncommon that much of the violence is perpetrated by the locals. That doesn’t relieve the foreign power of responsibility in any conceivable sense. So in Afghanistan in the 80s, for example, the focus of a moral observer should’ve been the occupation of the country by an imperial power bent on imposing its political will, not the violence perpetrated by the Mujahideen.
“……Whenever a country is destabilized by a foreign power, it’s not uncommon that much of the violence is perpetrated by the locals. That doesn’t relieve the foreign power of responsibility in any conceivable sense…..”
So you are saying that the US is responsible for the targeting of civilians by the Taliban? That’s ridiculous Jose.
Donald Trump’s fucking hair is strange, Craig.
*Evidently, the US et el invaded the whole of Afghanistan to capture/kill one person: Osama bin Laden. Strangely enough, he was killed about 10 years later in Pakistan.
Besides … Obama has ‘ended’ the Afghanistan WAR, or haven’t you heard?
“…….Besides … Obama has ‘ended’ the Afghanistan WAR, or haven’t you heard?….”
I heard that, but he lied didn’t he. The US would be absolutely crazy to pull out of Afghanistan like they did in Iraq. That void led to the current fiasco in Iraq with the alienated Sunni (by the Maliki government) joining the brutal ISIS. The US needs to ensure that the Pakistan-supported Taliban don’t gain power back in Afghanistan – ever. And that probably means US troops remaining in Afghanistan in a support position ideally for the next five decades.
Some dick going by the handle of “CraigSummers” writes:
Ignoring this: 8. Under the Geneva Conventions, hospitals or mobile medical units are in no circumstances to be attacked in a conflict.
“……..8. Under the Geneva Conventions, hospitals or mobile medical units are in no circumstances to be attacked in a conflict……”
It’s illegal under international law which I pointed out in the same post you said you read. Attacking purposely is a whole lot different than bombing by accident. I just need some evidence. Silly me. Do you remember Darren Wilson?
I didn’t say I read your meandering train wrecked post. I learned a long time ago that the translations are enough.
No need to “remember” since I’ve never forgotten. Darren Wilson is the guy who murdered Mike Brown, and, with the help of a blatantly and transparently corrupt District Attorney, Bob Mcculloch, who falsified evidence and lied to a Grand Jury, there was no indictment of Darren Wilson, the murderer of Mike Brown.
Lawrence O’Donnell explains
“…..No need to “remember” since I’ve never forgotten. Darren Wilson is the guy who murdered Mike Brown, and, with the help of a blatantly and transparently corrupt District Attorney, Bob Mcculloch, who falsified evidence and lied to a Grand Jury, there was no indictment of Darren Wilson, the murderer of Mike Brown…..”
Right, and a blatantly corrupt DOJ?! You never give up which is a credit to your stupidity.
A HOSPITAL FULL OF TALIBAN SOLDIERS GETTING FRESHENED UP TO FIGHT THE U.S. AND KILL CHRISTIANS. THE ENTIRE STAFF WERE AIDING THE ENEMY. DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS IS A BUNCH OF IDIOTS LED BY THE ENEMY.
And when they treat Afghan civilians, Christians, US military personal and anyone else not considered an “eneny combatant” by the US gov’t, i.e. anyone not a male over 14, what are they then?
The US of A always making friends…hhhwhaaaahhhaww
Here’s a funny one, the editors of the “des moines register” calling on their government, the US, to “enforce international law”
How much schooling do you need, before you are introduced to the novel idea that law is maybe, a collective action, applied by a community to itself, not something applied ad hoc, by the strong, against the weak?
Here’s a definition of law, by the world justice project:
http://worldjusticeproject.org/what-rule-law
So in this definition, you’ve got, “applied evenly”, “fair”, delivered by ethical and neutral representatives that reflect the community.
Now let’s get back to the “des moines register” and their call for one country, the US to “enforce international law” which specifically means in this case:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/readers/2015/10/03/us-must-enforce-international-laws/73153490/
Yes, hours before the US kills doctors at a fixed and known hospital location, in a country that the US invaded and occupied, before installing a puppet government, the editors of an American newspaper ask their government to enforce international law, against…Russia.
By “enforce” and “law” the Register doesn’t mean what most people mean by those words. And domestically, I would be surprised if in response to law breaking the Register meant that a mass murderer, with a record of breaking and entering, should be the one called upon to “enforce the law”. But this is exactly what the Register wants for the rest of the world. The Register means to say that one nation, the US, should unilaterally and arbitrarilly take action in the name of International law. Why? Because apparently Armenia has threatened to take “preemptive strikes” and has received loans from Russia to purchase weapons.
I’m going to refrain from linking to all the news articles of American preemptive strikes and loans to other human rights abusing countries allowing them to buy weapons.
Suffice it to say that with the UK supporting Saudi Arabia on the UN human rights body, and the US selling the Saudis weapons with which to invade Yemen, I’m perplexed as to the Des Moines Register’s editor’s priorities. And the Register should have enough sense to know that America acting alone, outside of recognized international law bodies, and indeed itself actively flouting international law, most notably by invading Iraq, and other countries, is in no way eligible to be called on by any credible newspaper, as an enforcer of international law.
That’s Des Moines, Iowa. The same state that is embracing Trump, Carson, and Fiorina.
People in Iowa have corn for brains.
Bingo!
The law is the consent of the governed. The law is democracy.
For many, the problem with that definition is that morality seems impotent when it is used to convince–as opposed to being used as a justification for violence and the physical imposition of will.
International law is a code word for law without democracy. “International” sounds so much better than “non-democratic”.
Even the Godless want law beyond democracy. The law as Golem or Superhero. Here, the law is not an agreement between equals, but the physical manifestation of a morality that exists beyond humanity. Far too many have killed God, not to make humans equal, but to rise to the throne.
That definition by the world justice project is pretty crappy. It nibbles around the edges, suggests without saying–and seems enamored with words because they sound like good things. For example–“stable”. Stability sounds good in the abstract, but stability is against change. Hardly what I want in the law. And with the phrase “fundamental rights” it preaches of a law beyond democracy.
The concept of jurisdiction is intimately tied to the law as democracy. When people speak of a law beyond jurisdiction, they speak of a law beyond democracy.
If you are imposing your will against someone who cannot vote to stop you–then you cannot represent the “Law”.
Without democracy, the law is immoral.
” by any credible newspaper…”
There’s your problem, right there.
Hi JLocke and TLNC (sorry for abbreviating but I’m a poor typist…)
“How much schooling do you need, before you are introduced to the novel idea that law is maybe, a collective action, applied by a community to itself, not something applied ad hoc, by the strong, against the weak?”
Excellent. I like that – and TLNC’s post, too.
it s a funny and a sad story at the time
Lenk:
50 meters is a large error for GPS. Sure, war time conditions and all that; maybe it was that big, I do not know. But this was no accidental bomb that went astray. An attack that lasts half an hour means that they thought they were hitting the right one, even if it was a mistake, as I think it was. What does the US have to gain by bombing a hospital?
However, if as you say the military knows that GPS errors can be large, then I would expect in an attack so long, the location would be confirmed many times. As satellites pass over, errors will change, sometimes large, sometimes small, and at least partially independent. I would expect the mean position so obtained to have a much smaller error than 50 meters.
I think they hit the building that they intended to hit, but I do not know what those making the attack knew about that building.
Of course one might make the argument that if the errors are as large as 50 meters, then using GPS to guide bombing in an area near a known hospital is accepting as a given that one is likely to bomb the hospital. Not what I want my country doing.
GPS errors specially for military systems are in the less than a meter range. With fixed targets the error may be centimeters. Now in wars that may make the pilot nervous, but the computer-guided missile is not nervous at all. Yours sounds like a excuse coming from the US envoy to the UN. Nonsense.
I am not making any excuses for anybody. Please read more carefully. Try to understand that I am saying that if the errors were as large as Lenk says, then the US accepted the bombing of the hospital as a likely outcome while attempting something else. But that is not what happened. The hospital building was attacked. Period.
Lenk’s GPS error thing is just a stupid distraction, as is most of what he writes.. The attack was done by a plane that approached as close as it needed to an identified building.
Were the munitions that the plane launched GPS guided? Who knows, I doubt that they needed to be. The hospital was an undefended sitting duck.
But I doubt 1 m can be achieved by such munitions with good reliability. Do you have a source for that?
And centimeters? That is a very careful measurement. I do not think that munitions do that.
wartime? you’re kidding, right? “wartime” implies two sorta similarly equipped adversaries.
afghanistan is not a war zone, there is no war. the world’s greatest ever super-duper-power
is at war with goat herders? guys with no air force, no navy, no air defenses, no tanks, no
industrial capacity are supposedly “at war” with a nation (no, a coalition!) armed with aircraft
carriers and satellites and icbm’s and stealth bombers that can fly halfway around the planet
drop their bombs and fly back so their pilots can relax at starbucks, and heck we might
even have T1000 robodroids as well. war my ass. it’s slaughter.
America = Country of HYPOCRITES!
Welcome to war with accidents, friendly fire and atrocities. Pick your own truth others will. Again we are engaged in a fight without an on the record congressional vote. A bloody civil war where we do not appear to have a dog in the fight and in the blur of the fray it is impossible to tell a mad dog from a healthy one. No way to get it right, no way to sort it out lose-lose scenario. Russia/Putin has at least picked a winner according to their selfish interests and any clear winner might reduce the carnage. I do not see even a selfish interest silver lining for America, just making a buck sure don’t cut it, “madness, madness.”
One difference is that the Russians are acting within the bounds of international law-acting on the request of a sovereign government. The US refuses to abide by law. The US coalition has no legal basis to bomb Syria and is thus committing a war crime, not to mention the ancillary crimes involved in funding and arming the violent insurgents in Syria.
“……One difference is that the Russians are acting within the bounds of international law-acting on the request of a sovereign government…..”
Nice to run across Russian bots. So the annexation of part of a sovereign country is legal under international law? Invading a sovereign nation is legal under international law – as in eastern Ukraine? Or holding a referendum at gun point is legal?
Thanks.
Changing the subject, hum?
this just in…………putin has declared that obama has lost legitimacy and must go. volunteer teabaggers are to be trained in as moderate rebels in camps just across the border in canada
and mexico, to be armed and sent back to overthrow the obama regime. rouhini has declared
a no-fly zone over texas and michigan……
I guess this is the first time in the 114-year history of the Nobel Peace Prize when a Laureate deliberately bombs and kills another Nobel Laureate.
Unsubstantiated your honor.
For what it’s worth, the US position is that it satisfies its legal obligation provided that “anticipated civilian casualties [are not] excessive IN RELATION TO THE ANTICIPATED MILITARY ADVANTAGE” (my emphasis). In other words, it’s not far-fetched that someone at the operations end of the exercise knew of the wounded Taliban presence at the hospital, did some quick math, and decided that the opportunity was too good to pass up.
Evidence GK? It’s illegal to target a hospital, or medical personnel.
Illegality is a poor predictor of what the US government wouldn’t do.
Fine Jose, but Greenwald made some unsubstantiated implications in his article regardless of past US practices. This is not uncommon for the Intercept e.g., Darren Wilson.
This was certainly not merely some “accident”: The staff at the hospital tried to contact NATO-headquarters in Kabul nine minutes after the raid started at about 2:10 am- with no effect. And the raid continued until about 3:13 am.
Why bomb a hospital on purpose…?
They’ve been ranting on about “The Russians”- hitting civilians. But they hit civilians themselves- and that becomes so much less embarrassing when there are no independent witnesses… Like the doctors from MSF.
What is “Normality”? –Normality is what people are used to… So, they should be very careful what they get used to- lest it becomes “normal”.
And to hell with the “US Service-Members Protection Act”…….
1)Whom exactly did they call in Kabul? The operation center? The military HQ?
2) What kinds of systems the pilot was using? GPS ? Laser? Canon?
3) Were they really receiving fire from the hospital? Close to the hospital?
Would you please provide answers to this question because I want to know whether it was purposeful? And it seems you have detailed information.
Question 1: The NATO-headquarters in Kabul; a few minutes later, MSF tried to contact Military-officials in Washington.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/03/us-afghanistan-attack-msf-phone-idUSKCN0RX0G420151003
Question 2: That’s irrelevant.
Question 3: That’s irrelevant as well. Hospitals have a very special status under international law; it would even have been irrelevant if the claim that there were “…Taliban-fighters on the roof” would have been true: A direct attack on a hospital is automatically a war-crime.
The key is the simple fact that MSF informed NATO and the US-military about the precise location of that hospital, and once the raid had started, they tried to contact them in order to get the raid stopped.
1) The NATO military headquarter IS NOT necessarily the operation center. The operation center is usually a highly top secret location ( in case the HQ is attacked). For instance, some operation centers for the war in Afghanistan in 2001 were secretly located in Saudi Arabia! Personnel in the Op center are the ones with direct contact with the pilot and ground troops and they are the ones who can quickly order a cessation of activities. So if they called the Pentagon or NATO HQ while the op center was not in those locations it might take time to relay that information. An AC 130 has enough firepower to kill hundreds of people in a few seconds. So, a one minute delay in that process might cause thousands of casualties.
2) That is one of the MOST RELEVANT piece of information to determine whether the bombing was an accident or not. MSF stated that it did give NATO the GPS coordinates, so the pilot should (and under NATO rules MUST) have a non firing zone if he/she was using the GPS system. If the op center ordered him/her to shoot, then he/she had a LEGAL duty to ask for a reconfirmation of that order since he/she would be firing in a non firing zone. The Laser system means the pilot does not really have to worry about the GPS system. Troops on the ground pinpoint the target and he/she shoots. The canon might require good visibility from the pilot or the gunner. If not, they will rely on “area visibility” with the help of ground troops. If visibility is poor as it was the case in Kunduz, then the pilot or gunner would fire “at the source” of enemy fire.
3)”if the claim that there were “…Taliban-fighters on the roof” would have been true: A direct attack on a hospital is automatically a war-crime.”
That is blatantly FALSE. I challenge you to provide the International Laws that refute my statement. Churches, Mosques, Schools, Hospitals, or any safe zones specifically designed for civilians, non combatants lose their special status when armed forces use those locations for combat operations. A soldier has a legal right to open fire on a school or a hospital if he/she is taking fire from that school or that hospital. International Laws do not prevent armed forces from defending themselves. The armed forces that used the safe zones to start military operations is the one in full violation of the Law of war because they changed the safe zone from a “neutral zone” to ” a combat zone”. Attacks on “safe zones” are prohibited as long as they are “safe zones”.
Think for yourself.
There is only one question left. On what day, does the American taxpayers load their weapons, and start surrounding WDC ready to drag these fucking war criminals out of their granite palaces and burn them alive in the street.
quote”Yesterday afternoon, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power marched to Twitter to proclaim: “we call on Russia to immediately cease attacks on Syrian oppo[sition and] civilians.” Along with that decree, she posted a statement from the U.S. and several of its closest authoritarian allies – including Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UK – warning Russia that civilian casualties “will only fuel more extremism and radicalization.”
Early this morning, in the Afghan city of Kunduz, the U.S. dropped bombs on a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders”unquote
I’d start with this shameless cunt, Samantha Powers.
No. The question is why are you here on the Intercept and not loading your weapons to start surrounding WDC? Lead by example soldier! Start first!
If violence was an effective weapon against violence, the US would be the peacemaker state it claims to be.
It starts here, friend: I bombed a hospital in Afghanistan and killed doctors and children. I bombed a wedding in Yemen and killed 130 real live people. All over the world, I am teaching new generations of children grief and pain, hatred and vengeance, and who will they hate forever? My soft little children, living out their sweet, happy childhoods in their quiet, peaceful home. When this reckoning is paid, brother, the bloodthirsty warmongers you wish to shoot will be the last to pay up, of that they will make certain.
It will not matter to the children of our Terror War that President Obama was re-elected by the “Oh Shit, Not Mitt!” vote. Anything and everything that can be called “American” will be despised with a hatred you and I have no capacity to comprehend by the great-great-grandchildren of many nations. That is what a violent response to violence will purchase.
We Murkans took up arms after 9/11, dint we? Damn right! And for 14 years we have made a trail of guts and bones across the planet. Are we still fighting the Taliban? No way. How many trillion bucks, did you say? How many bombs? How many dead folks? And we’re still fighting the Taliban. Really. It makes you wonder if killing cockroaches with a sledgehammer is such a great strategy after all.
So please, my neighbor, my countryman, my brother: Please take your testosterone out for a jog, instead of advocating for more of the same craziness that got us here. We don’t need to shoot the warmongers, we need to find a way to live together that deprives the violent and power-hungry of their means to war. If we do not find a way to do that– as a nation, as a species –humanity will die, and damn well deserve it.
So well said, alan –
especially: “We don’t need to shoot the warmongers, we need to find a way to live together that deprives the violent and power-hungry of their means to war. If we do not find a way to do that– as a nation, as a species –humanity will die, and damn well deserve it.” I’ve been feeling and saying pretty much the same. We must turn away from war and violence, we must.
Obama is just a tool being used by those in power to keep steering the nation into greater and greater acts of war just for wars sake. And the ‘just for war’s sake’ is the utility that disrupts everyday existence so horribly that these powers move in and take whatever they want for themselves in the way of resources, etc. This tool of war Obama loves to use rips open nations and spills their guts out for all of extreme wealth and extreme power to pillage and destroy. Children, lives, the environment, societies…nothing is safe from this monster until it is somehow stopped; nor is anything but war itself sacred!
If it had been a single hit, it could have been chalked up to an equipment failure – I presume that if the US is truly trying to minimize civilian casualties, they are using nothing but guided munitions. Yes, yes, I know: it is bad to presume any such thing. But what makes it worse is that the MSF people started calling the US authorities, first in Kabul and then in Washington to tell them they were bombing a hospital, but the bombing continued.
The only possible conclusion in this is that the US government is sending a message to NGOs such as MSF: stop treating the wounded, stop feeding the hungry, go away. There is nothing we ordinary citizens can do about it except to write a larger check this year to MSF, knowing that in doing so, we reduce the amount of revenue the US government takes in. We have to force them to either stop buying bombs or into bankruptcy. At this point I don’t care which.
This will cost the U.S. hundreds of millions of dollars in settlements.
you mean it will cost U.S. citizens
America rarely compensates its victims in any way.
Washington clown bus advocates shooting down the Russian planes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpeBlOGxSqw
For wars or “police actions”, I vote we have our fearless leaders and THEIR wives and kids shoot it out instead of innocent civilians!! Hypocrites!!!
And these acts by the biggest terrorist actor on the planet are news?
Do as I say, not as I do. US leaders are such hypocrites. The land of the freedom… but only if you’re a white American.
The majority of the prison population of the US, the most caged people on the planet, are white.
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Are you an ignorant fuck or just a liar?
Nowhere did I mention incidence within populations.
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp
I’m quite obviously neither. But what is and was your point? And why is your stack steaming just because I put perspective to yourreply to “Sheep?”
Surely there must be a mistake. We were told by Obama just a couple of days ago that PUTIN was the bad guy bombing innocents including children. Its obvious when Russia does something, he gets on TV and rambles on about how evil they are and when the US bombs a hospital…well we just better conduct a thorough investigation…blah blah
On one of the online comment sections(The Guardian) someone explained that the doctors report on the type of injuries they treat. They note for example the types of unusual burns which can point to illegal/chemical weapons being used.Another reason to target the doctors.
Unbelievable to me that the Americans have complained at russia bombing their CIA trained guys,”moderate rebels” who turn out to include Al Nusra, a UN designated terrorist organisation, affiliated to Al Qaeda, the very people the US launched the war on terror to eradicate.
The footage of the aftermath of the Russian bombing shows mostly men of combat age running around. I saw no civilians on the CNN or BBC footage at any rate
They had just been working in the hospital to help people… and now, they are dead.
I am still waiting for Obama to address the nation over this issue. Our military just bombed a hospital the day after warning the eeevviiiiillll Russians not to go killing civilians. Presumably His Highness can imagine this event warrants the highest level of explanation.
The continued US brutality and hypocrisy sickens me. No wonder it is the most hated nation on the planet.
Thanks for an article that doesn’t try to whitewash the facts.
all those years ago, when the neo-cons boasted of their intention to ‘destabilize’ the middle east, they weren’t bullshitting.
Glenn ! Thanks for bringing a different perspective.
The silencing of Samantha Power by Obama’s White House–on many occasions, and on others the deplorable talking points she has to deliver–is sad. I believed her to be better than this.
Your comment is typical of people who refuse to see neo-criminals
for what they are.
Power’s role is to help people not see reality.
The reality being that the democrats and republicans are two
sides of the same blood-soaked cloth.
She has repeatedly pushed for more warmongering and hypocritical
liberals still cling to the delusion that she is a “humanitarian.”
The reality is that she uses words to lull people into accepting
vicious aggression instead of repudiating it.
see as well:
The Real House of Saud – Saudi Arabia’s Oil-For-Tyranny | Abby Martin’s The Empire Files
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmSRWXCosxc
So I read this today from David Bromwich on huffpost on the fantasies of a moderate anti-Assad resistance which is making Al Queda in Syria into moderate fellas.
“But we are urged at the same time to suppose — the complicated relationships of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, and Israel encourage it — that al-Nusra is perhaps a milder version of al-Qaeda and that both are necessary allies in the titanic struggle to overthrow Assad and defeat ISIS in a single stroke. The sheer quantity of self-deception that is required to support this fantasy ought to be obvious; but the fantasy will tempt us until our leaders break once and for all with the dreamers of the Third Force.”
My question is when Obama and his administration town criers say their contradictory statements, their hypocritical snorts, their lies, their distortions, do they actually believe themselves and their pronouncements. I guess this question is for anybody who works in such lofty propaganda circles. When generals say the Russians will create more terrorists by bombing civilians, does that person understand the same must be true for US killing civilians? Just curious.
Some call him goose, but the law must be showed!
Some know more good, but they will be knowed!
Scorge of an ignorant and behind reproach,
Hyprocrits scatter upon him approach!
Fount of wise, Grace of thy thread,
All hail Lenk, or risk be dread!
lol lol
What more can one possibly say about the US? A country with forked-tongue, horns and a tail.
We are an invasion nation. If we have a beef with Russia, I suggest that talking tough is no different than hiding under mama’s pinafore. Just invade Russia – an equal for once – and let’s see what happens. And quit whining. That, or shut up.
What’s good for the goose, is oft good for the gander. If the Iraqis, and Afghans, and Lybians and Syrians and Palestinians can take it from us, why can’t we take a few nukes from the Russians? Afterall, we are the tough guys. Right?
Because in truth, there is more to manhood than spending tax payer’s money remotely suffocating an old woman by paralyzing her diaphragm so she can’t breathe while simultaneously flooding her mouth with stinging hydrochloric acid mixed in with partially digested food regurgitated from the stomach, in an attempt to choke or produce aspiration, and death from asphyxiation, as the “tough” remote torturers did on September 30 2015, while barking interrogation-style nonsense through simulated phonations. This occured immediately after I posted a comment to an article by James Bamford.
This is the face of American torturers. A picture perfect face, as pretty as dames taking pics with iced corpses in Abu Ghraib.
From rrheard:
Please provide a link for your following assertion:
According to the Afghan Interior Ministry 15 Taliban fighters were firing against Afghan forces from inside the hospital.
“Interior Ministry spokesman Sediq Sediqqi told NBC News that up to 15 militants had “taken position inside the hospital compound” and begun firing on Afghan forces.”
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/16-dead-after-charity-hospital-hit-apparent-u-s-airstrike-n438001
“Do you speak English well enough to comprehend the difference in the meaning of the words “firing against from inside the hospital” as opposed to “hiding inside the hospital” and “firing adjacent to the hospital”?”
“Do you?”
I have consistently stated that your English is way better than mine and I need your help. Can you please explain that statement from NBC News repeating the Afghan ministry: “taken position INSIDE the hospital..begun FIRING on Afghan forces”? Explain please with better English so I can understand.
Easy, it’s called a lie.
Doctors without borders were treating Taliban as well, they had an agreement no taliban would bring weapons into the hospital, given they were getting their men treated there I would say that they stuck to that deal.
The Afghans gave the US the fake pretext they needed to take out a bunch of Taliban, all the US has to say now is “we acted on Afghan intelligence” in a not our fault pass the buck scenario just like the wiping out of the wedding in Yemen, Saudi intelligence is a joke, they rely on Israeli and US intelligence.
Thank you for your well explanation based on your detailed evidence, but that is not what I am looking for. I want to know what the words “INSIDE” and “FIRING” mean. I reported the same statement from NBC before, but this is what rrheard wrote in response:
“Do you speak English well enough to comprehend the difference in the meaning of the words “firing against from inside the hospital” as opposed to “hiding inside the hospital” and “firing adjacent to the hospital”?”
Why do you still believe your normal media Lenk? They are owned by the very people who want all this war….big business. The weopons industry, oil, big pharma, banks and all the rest. Open your eyes and see the brain washing done to you! I know it is a bit of a shock to have everything you ever believed in turn out a lie, but you just going to have to bite through that and come out all fresh and awake.
The last few days have provided the starkest lesson in media propaganda imaginable. Last week the UK media were gearing up to support the Governments bid to get in on the action in Syria, the professed sentiment being that: the only thing that will end the war in Syria is air strikes. Then Russia started bombing and suddenly it’s: the only thing that will exacerbate the war in Syria is air strikes.
Within a few hours of Russia starting its air campaign, they had evidence of civilian casualties and the targeting of “opposition forces”; carefully labelled so as not to imply that they were jihadi groups. Turkey have been bombing the Kurds, one of the most effective groups fighting ISIS, for weeks with barely a word said. You could count on one hand the number of times that civilian casualties as a result of UK bombing has been reported in the whole of the last fifteen years of the “War on [of] Terror”.
Hey Lenk
Are you being paid by the word to disseminate your pathetically weak teak propaganda from Irbil? What is your citizenship status presently? Were you born or naturalized as an American citizen assuming you are one which I highly doubt? When are you going to pony up the airline ticket and lodging monies so we can meet in person? Would you like me to bring some coloring books and grammar school reading workbooks to help you with your diction and understanding of the world?
Here’s my thoughts, and you should tell this to your superiors at Coalition Propaganda HQ–if they are going to run propaganda operations through US journalism comment sites, they should at least hire people with competence in written English sufficient that they don’t make complete jackasses of themselves. And they should hire someone with at least a college education. If they want good examples of how propaganda ops are done most effectively, have them partner with Israel and its hasbara brigades. I mean Israel’s tripe is just as transparently propaganda and only works on the ideologically blinkered and morons like you, but they do it about as well as anybody out there can.
“Would you like me to bring some coloring books and grammar school reading workbooks to help you with your diction and understanding of the world?”
Yes please. I need your help. Can I write “people” or “peoples”? Can I say “publicly” or “publically”?
(1) ‘…warning Russia that civilian casualties “will only fuel more extremism and radicalization. ‘ – Quote from above.
(2) ‘… “We believe if you inadvertently kill innocent men, women and children, then there’s a backlash from that,” ‘ – Quote from above.
The words on both (1) and (2) are very revealing. They tell us that in fact, civilian casualties in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria, have been deliberately churned out all along to “…fuel more extremism and radicalization”…and “…backlash…”.
It is not illogical to arrive at this conclusion.If the war on t error must be perpetual, as it is claimed to be, then it needs a steady supply of “extremism and radicalization” , and the resultant “backlash” both for its perpetuation as well as for its continued justification.
These words also reveal that Iraq’s invasion, despite UN claims that there were no WMD in that country, and Syria’s bombing in order to install a puppet after deposing Al Assad, were both deliberate events intended to perpetuate the war on terror, in pursuit, or fulfillment of, the “OPPORTUNITIES”, a word that an excellent article by one of the journalists here on September 11, 2015, showed being used repeatedly by the then President Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice and others after 9/11.
The least they could do is just praise Russia (sarcasm) for helping to them to add to the supply of extremism and radicalization and backlash. This way, their war for terror (Borat) can be assured never to end, until the day when not a single Arab in that part of the world, will be left standing.
‘ Her accompanying statement claimed that “the United States has no role in the targeting decisions made by the Coalition in Yemen,” ‘ – Quote from above.
The coalition is often referred to, by both the U. S. officials as well as by other parties, as a “U. S. led coalition”. Will someone go rent some courage somewhere and own up?
“possibly even criminal”???
Way to hedge your bets, douchebag.
Why not instead, say,
Rubio claims Putin is “a gangster and a thug.”
When American officials — a senator in this case — not only remain silent in the face of this atrocity, they actually have the gall to deplore someone uninvolved in this crime as “a gangster and a thug” then the international community has a responsibility to act decisively.
Clearly American officials lack the ability and/or the integrity to respond with common human decency.
What’s the difference between the murders in Oregon (and every fucking where else in Gunland America) and the US military officers who ordered or condoned this?
This culture considers mass murderers acting alone as insane; acting under orders, we call mass murderers “heroes” or “warriors.”
Yet the most an international official can manage is “possibly” criminal??
Hide under your desk. When they come for you, maybe they’ll take your secretary instead.
Well, I hate to agree with Wilted Milt but he’s absolutely right.
These, as are all the aggressions of the US, UK France etc, in the Middle East are war crimes.
These doctors get very important information from the people they care for in the field of war, and sometimes like today that information is so important to control that killing innocence is the result. It would of probably went on as an unknown terrorist act if not for the new watch dogs of the Russian military satellites, not only forcing the Americans to admit to the atrocity because everyone knows this was not an accident, but to also collectively bring to light the true nature of this governments agenda of being the exact opposite of what they preach. The new American political jihadist regime is the enemy of the world, they need to be pushed back behind there own borders, stop funding terrorist with our money, stop intentionally creating terrorist to destabilize every country you enter as you spread disease with your war machines. It is so obvious what you are doing yet you show no mercy in your quest for power, we do not require your assistance anymore, by using our collective thoughts we can willfully dismantle your war machine armada of death.
My point below re Fallujah..this happens so often, i’m having difficulty believing these are accidents.
This carnage is reminiscent of Israel’s relentless bombing, napalming and torpedoing of the USS Liberty in international waters during the Six Day War in 1967 where 34 soldiers were slaughtered and 171 others were wounded.
Even though they were able to get a distress signal out and also considering the fact that the Israeli IDF had done many fly-overs that morning where the sailor witnesses said they were so close that they could see the IDF soldiers in the planes and waved to them thinking that because the Stars and Stripes were flying that they were “safe with an ally”.
The U.N. has become completely impotent related to international war crimes.
This planet is now the wild west with the United States being the worst aggressor.
We need a new “sheriff” in town.
That is correct. The American political agenda is now a war machine. I am so disgusted with this disease of a nation where the dollar triumphs over humanity.
The past 15 years are as bad as Viet Nam… minus the press coverage. Beyond sad and losing hope in the future of what is to come.
Video from RT panning the building About 2 minutes long. The video gives a clear idea what the facility looks like now, and previous to the destruction.
Fear not, though. The U.S. gov’t has promised to investigate themselves. There will be no conflict of interests. Another American bows her head in shame.
Russia , Iran and now China joined Russia according to many online outlets to protect Assad and bomb Anerican traned rebels, America better stay away or WW3 could happen dont believe the Anerican media saying that the World supports them, China n Russia is the World.
Hi Lenk,
I can complain all I want and have critique on any country I want. I don’t pay any taxes to any country. The U.F.S.A. (United Fascist States of America) is a nasty bully who believes it has the right to invade, bomb, torture and or kill anyone and or any country it feels like. It is time you guys start a revolution over there and get rid of your nasty rulers (politicians, bankers and all other nasty shits you have over there). Then we will do it over here.
We should get rid of all leaders…..they don’t care about any of us, they just care about themselves and their power. Long live Anarchy.
This documentary “Lifting the Veil” should be right up your alley:
http://metanoia-films.org/lifting-the-veil/
I watched it today and I’ll watch it again. It should be required viewing for all Americans.
The hypocrisy and lies coming out of the middle east never ceases to amaze me. How is anyone supposed to know what’s really going on over there? I spend a good portion of my day trying to make sense of it and struggle all the time. But just listening to mainstream media is a joke the the American people should stand up and do something about. But alas, no one seems to care as witnessed that the surveillance by all the authorities hasn’t even drawn much interest from people. I guess it’s all part of “stuff happens”.
We are way to busy posting pictures of what we ate last night on Facebook and playing fantasy football to really care. Sorry….
@Whitemellon –
Sorry to say, I think you are correct…
http://observergal.blogspot.com/2015/09/fantasy-sports-just-hand-over-your-money.html
Sad.
When the US coalition attacked and flattened Fallujah Iraq the two major hospitals and medical clinics were among the first targeted. From my recollection it was said they were intentionally targeted to prevent news of the action from being reported as these places become information hubs. So the question is was this bombing done on purpose..
Of course it was. The hospital has been there for years. We know the terrain. We see everything that moves. The Chinese embassy in Belgrade was plausibly an error, though I don’t believe it was—this is not.
Targeting a Doctor Without Borders hospital seems counter productive for a country that prides itself for spinning some of the best propaganda around. What could they possibly gain from this..unless if course they simply don’t give a shit.
Plausible deniability trumps everything.
I wish someone would launch a major sourcing fund to “Doctors Without Borders” and also a White House.gov petition demanding a war crimes investigation.
Seems it would be easy to get to 100,000 signatures on this atrocity.
yes, absolutely an accident. also an accident that parts of the stealth fighter shot
down over serbia were temporarily stored in the chinese embassy. sent out the
day prior to the “oops”, now incorporated into the chinese J-20 and others.
Links?
I agree!
Sheikh Imran Hosein:
Refugees, Bogus Financial System, Nuclear War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXa_Kta2Km4
Meanwhile, Russian Military still claims that all the targets in Syria were far from civilian objects. And their claims fit well into the current logic of first wave of strikes. Assad army is not ready to advance yet, so the first strikes are targeting the ISIS military camps and supply chains far in desert – to weaken them first.
The current objects, targeted by Russians, are “easy ones”, as they had time to verify those. The chance of civilian casualties will be higher when the Assad army starts to advance, and the strikes will be directed towards closer targets in densely populated settings.
It is still worth to note though, how quickly the messages of “civil casualties of Russian strikes” were generated and reposted by Western Media without any real confirmation. Welcome to the propaganda world!
“U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power marched to Twitter to proclaim”
Is anyone disgusted by the posting of such important items to Twitter?
I mean what kind of childish government are we running here…
John,
This is the EXACT reaction I had : using Twitter? Social media seems to lessen any credibility to me. Everyone is so corrupted that I have no idea who or what to believe. Our WORLD leader’s dishonesty is why it is our natural instinct to turn the other cheek in these matters. It is a he said /she said debate. Sad but true!!!
the lies and hypocrisy of the ussa/uk/israel agenda are becoming exposed for all the world to see
The star of the show is the American Fascist Jihadist military complex creating perpetual war for global domination in the name of democracy. Showing the world that only through American Exceptionalism can real change be made to strengthen and fuel fear through the oppression of societies and through the tactics of media manipulation. Also as I told you the other day about the Russian intervention with Syria at the the request of the Syrian government for protection of it’s own vital resources. The Americans where in a key position to take over areas which actually forced Russia’s response to protect itself. I told you the news would try to show Americans that Russia killed civilians only, not terrorist, which is just not true. Now we have a HUGE situation of a hospital in Afghanistan where Americans just blew it up and children where killed it was protected by rebels of the Taliban. Important to note the Americans typically deny such atrocities of murder, meaning some extremely important information was in that hospital and that it was evidence of the American jihad and funding of terrorist. I am saying this because in the article about the Russian intervention with Syria, Taliban were killed but the Americans claimed that these Taliban where on there side as rebels fighting the Assad regime this is very important to note how the Americans play war games, especially when we catch them in the act of doing so.
Here is a reminder of how the George W. Bush administration started negotiations with the Taliban right out of the gate to secure a deal for a major oil pipeline. The negotiations went on right up until one month before the WTC towers (all three! of them) came plummeting to the ground in massive explosions.
According to this book, the Taliban soured on the deal and they were threatened with this: “Either you will be carpeted in gold or carpeted in bombs”:
http://serendipity.li/wot/bl_tft.htm
So many lies. So little time.
I am so glad Glenn that you can be the watch dog on these monsters in power. Samantha Power’s is the epitome of self delusion and a dangerous one which shows how morally corrupt she is. But, her statement could very well be aimed at her boss who has been doing this for the last 7 years, murdering tens of thousands of people in 7 different countries and assisting clients in doing the same without saying a peep.
Power is not self-deluded. She knows the situation exactly. She is, rather, a vicious criminal, who works for imperial war at every opportunity.
The soldiers on the ground are calling in air strikes because they are in immediate danger. The pilot flying to them has just a short time on site to assess, target and fire.
The only real interest to the pilot is saving his men on the ground and destroying the enemy. The pilot doesn’t have a display with a large neon sign showing “Hospital” on it.
Most people think of a hospital as a multistory building with a large parking lot but these “hospitals ” in Afghanistan, especially in the North East are generally a single story residence converted into a hospital. They may sometimes be painted white. Other times they appear to be any other kind of structure.
In war, when your own men are in danger there is a decision to make. Can we fight our way out or do we need to call in CAS (close air support ). When the choice for CAS has been made, the pilot will do to their best ability what they can and if the forces on the ground have a JTAC with them, than that JTAC will tell the pilot where to fire and guide him onto the target. But, if the pilot decides there is too much possible civilian damage he may opt to strafe a target with bullets instead of bombs.
If the JTAC on ground told the pilot he was being fired upon from the hospital than its up to the commander on the ground to assess and decide the best course of action.
None of this stuff is simple decision making by a single person.
wow, were you on the ground there? You know for a fact that this is what actually happened? How do you know that it wasn’t probably a freakin drone that did this? One correction for you is that we are not in a war for one hasn’t been declared. We are occupiers.
Good point. If he was not there, then he cannot know for a fact what really happened. NEITHER CAN YOU.
Not at all, lenk. He knows what really happened: the U.S. bombed a hospital and people were killed. He also knows, as per Glenn’s latest update, that:
@ Mona
C’mon seriously Mona, quoting the US human rights chief to Lenk is like quoting Stalin.
Lenk believes what he believes and he believes that anybody who actually argues against his beliefs with actual demonstrable facts, and including links thereto while employing blockquotes, good grammar and spelling is actually “stupid and ignorant”. You know because of Lenk’s facility with the English language by comparison to his facility with Arabic.
Oh yeah and his airtight “logic” taken together with his propensity for non-sequiturs and goal post moving, of course makes his arguments unassailable on all topics. Dontchyaknow?
Oddly, I find that such carrying on annoys authoritarians, Zionists, and such, a very great deal.
@ Mona
Well it is a well known fact that when conservatives act they create their own reality and it is left to the smart people to just study and analyze the meaning and implications of those acts while the conservatives busy themselves creating more reality through actions.
I like to call it the Conservative’s Thirteenth Law of Reality Conservation and Creation. Sort of like the opposite Bizarro World version of Clausius and Rankine’s First Law of Thermodynamics.
The Conservative’s First Law is Never Speak Ill of Fellow Conservatives.
Second Law is Conservatives are Never Wrong Despite Being Objectively Proved Wrong. Third Law is Taxation and Science are the Work of Satan.
Fourth Law is The Only Problems Properly Within Sphere of Government Action are Those Problems Which Can Be Addressed Via War, Expanding Private Gun Ownership, or Better Drafting of Private Contracts.
The Fifth Law is Thatcher’s Theorem (There is No “Society” There Is Only the Family).
Laws Six through Twelve all address the unique evils of premature pregnancy cessation or women and minorities not knowing their place in the non-existent society.
@rrheard
HA HA! So awesome.
Yes, I believe what I want to believe and neither you nor Greenwald, or Chomsky can decide what I believe. The main difference between you (the freeloader) Mona the dumb ass, and Greenwald the propagandist, and me is that I put my money where my mouth is.
1) I do not believe the US government is a terrorist organization. So, it does not bother me giving them tax money they use to buy weapons.
Mona and Greenwald believe the opposite, yet they keep giving Uncle Sam money and they complain the next day about the US being a terrorist state. I think it would make sense for both to relinquish their passport so they will stop helping the US government to buy weapons. By the way, I am still waiting your highlight in the long tax information you provided that states that those who relinquish their citizenship will have to pay taxes for another ten years. You know English better than I do, so please that is the least you can do. Just highlight it to me, so you can show everybody I was wrong.
2) You, as a freeloader, complain every day about the US government being an organization of mass murders, terrorists… Yet, you are getting FREE services from the same mass murderers and terrorists. It would be reasonable for you to leave so you can be in a better position to blame those murderers. Using their services for FREE and then blaming them make your arguments morally unsound. Fee free to blame my English. You forgot during your “highly educated” classes that the language spoken is not a metric to determine whether an individual is an ignorant.
Perfect example: “… over the last 3 or 4 years I haven’t paid any taxes toward buying any bullets or bombs for American. Thankfully. And I do it without taking any public subsidies..”
Perfect English, but a very ignorant statement. You take public subsidies every day by living in the US. The services provided to you by the US government are more valuable than the typical welfare paycheck the US provides.
@ Lenk
Listen peabrain:
1) I’ve paid my fair share of taxes over the years to support things I didn’t like and the things I do like. And I bet that amounts to hundreds of thousands of dollars more than you will ever contribute in your pathetic lifetime. So by definition I cannot be a freeloader. Now I live off that past hard work so I don’t generate much in income thus I don’t have to pay income taxes to support that which I don’t want to support. All other taxes are being paid and I derive no direct “welfare” services from the government, although I concede like all other Americans I derive many benefits indirectly from roads, to schools to whatever. But I’ve never derived any direct or indirect benefit from the portions of my tax dollars that go to the US military and neither have the a majority of Americans who aren’t directly economically interested or related to the military industrial complex.
2) You are of course free to believe anything your misinformed moron mind choose to believe and I have zero doubt you are immune to having your mind changed by any reality based evidence–because that’s the hallmark of the idiot mind you are so fond of embracing.
3) That America has “terrorized” and killed millions of people all over the globe is a demonstrable fact whether you choose to believe it or not. Whatever label you choose to apply to that status is of course up to you, but like you, others are free to see and label that however they choose.
4) I could easily live in Canada, a European country, any Scandinavian country and a handful of others and be equally happy and safe, notwithstanding anything the US government or its military does or doesn’t do. The reason I don’t is I want to stay and fight for this to be a better nation, and so that people like you never fully take over the reins of power in this country. Because while this nation is full of ignorant brain-dead propagandize idiots like you, I refuse to let them have this nation by simply walking away without a fight.
5) For all your bluster, the American military with all its purported might and technology hasn’t been able to “defeat” any nation or peoples, and most of those people were uneducated, unfunded, untrained citizens fighting with improvisation and small arms. So what does that say about the stupidity, waste and futility of the American military enterprise? Not much in my and tens of millions of other Americans’ opinions.
Every time it suits me, and when I’m not bored with interacting with a simpleton like you, I’m going to sit around and debunk your stupidity here publically Mr. Lenk Heide you fucking pathetic know-nothing clown. You are no better than navel lint to me in the grand scheme of things. And I will pick that lint at my leisure and for my own amusement no matter how many times you attempt to project your ignorance and stupidity onto others like a child.
“So by definition I cannot be a freeloader”
1) Good English, but ignorant statement showing a lack of very basic economics. the taxes you paid in the 80s are not financing the services you currently obtain. So, yes you are a freeloader.
“But I’ve never derived any direct or indirect benefit from the portions of my tax dollars that go to the US military’
Good English, but another ignorant statement. US Army Medical Research using tax dollars came with the fibrin bandage, and the Golden hour container. US Army HIV research consistently tested prime boost vaccines. US Military Research came with the GPS widely used by rescuers, transporters…the first electronic computer built through US military funds to operate in the Ballistic Lab.
As an ignorant I do understand why you would not consider advance in medical technology, communication, and computer engineering “direct” or “indirect” benefits to humanity.
2) “I have zero doubt you are immune to having your mind changed by any reality based evidence–”
You have not provided ONE study that proved your statement that statistically, using boots on the ground would result in fewer civilian casualties during military operations. You asked me for one example of the US using ground troops to apprehend suspected terrorists instead of using drones, I gave you four. What is factually incorrect about the above statements? As you English is better please explain me what evidence really means.
3)”That America has “terrorized” and killed millions of people all over the globe is a demonstrable fact whether you choose to believe it or not.”
Yes, America did, but I will not blame Obama for what Nixon did nor should I blame Putin for what Stalin did. I will not call Germany a terrorist state in 2015 because of what Hitler did. Obama is responsible for what happened in Kunduz, not Mai Lai.
4)”I could easily live in Canada, a European country, any Scandinavian country and a handful of others and be equally happy and safe, notwithstanding anything the US government or its military does or doesn’t do.”
Canada and most European countries are directly or indirectly linked with the US military. Norway, Germany, France, Spain… have troops in the Middle East helping with the bombing of Syria. So, even if you would decide to pay the high taxes in those countries you would still be living under governments of mass murderers and terrorists as they strongly support the US military operations.
5)For all your bluster, the American military with all its purported might and technology hasn’t been able to “defeat” any nation or peoples, and most of those people were uneducated, unfunded, untrained citizens fighting with improvisation and small arms.
Bad English and ignorant statement. People NEVER takes an “s”. It is already plural.
The US military defeated the Germans in WWI, defeated the Nazis in WWII, defeated the Japanese in WWII, defeated the Iraqi military in 1991. Last time I was in Afghanistan, the president was not a Taliban member, the budget was not planned by the Taliban, the Afghan cops were not Taliban, hospitals, public schools, courts…were not run by the Taliban. The Taliban were in rural areas, coming to cities from time to time to kill civilians and running away. However, an ignorant like you will say the US did not defeat the Taliban. The Taliban is a well funded organization using opium to finance its activities.
“Every time….child”
Bad English for a “highly educated” man. ‘Publicly” not “publically”
So as of 2000:
So that proves my point that the vast majority of humans haven’t benefited from this particular item you claim arises from military expenditures. But let’s just check that claim shall we:
Oh wow looks like “fibrin” technology has been around since early 1900s and wasn’t developed by US military.
http://www.annclinlabsci.org/content/31/1/108.long
Again another little item that doesn’t benefit anybody but the service members in the field and didn’t even exist until 2002.
http://www.militaryblood.dod.mil/ViewContent.aspx?con_id_pk=1048&fr=s
Lots of organizations “consistently tested” things what does that have to do with benefits to the vast majority of citizens much less people with AIDS?
I’ll concede the US military initiated GPS, but it’s not like it wouldn’t have come to market in the absence of US military involvement from the private sector for the very simple reason that the US military isn’t the only entity with satellite construction or launch capability. Might as well give credit to NASA.
Again, so what? You are attempting to argue “but-for” causation and/or “without the military these things would not exist” and that’s a lie. Notwithstanding the fact that the first computer was funded by the US Army, it was actually developed by two civilians at the Univ. of Pennsylvania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC#Parts_on_display
As an “ignorant” I wouldn’t presume to believe you are capable of even understanding the simplest concepts of logic or causation. And here’s a newsflash peabrain, the vast vast vast majority of medical technology, communication and computer engineering did not, do not, and will not be derived because of, or but-for, the military. And if you weren’t fucking ignorant you would understand why.
a) it’s because your much vaunted military has an impenetrable lock on the relevant data, and refuses to even engage in such studies, and if they did the results are classified. But you indirectly established my premise for me by linking to four examples of where when the US military even “attempted” to capture someone, the casualties were non-existent or much less than say your average killing of 130 civilian wedding attendees or bombing of a hospital.
Will you blame America for what Kennedy, Johnson, Bush I and Bush II did? If not why not, just that reality just disappear into your little braindead memory rabbit hole because it is in the past and isn’t therefore relevant to the overall character of a nation?
Neither would I. I would describe it as a “terrorist state” while Hitler was alive and was engaging in “terrorist” activities. Just like when any other nation, including the US, engages in a particular type of act consistently and over time to present, I will refer to it accordingly because I don’t believe in double standards unlike stupid people like you.
And they are wrong to do so, but that is for their people to end not me. And if I was to live there I still wouldn’t pay much in taxes because their contributions to America’s war effort is insignificant, that’s assuming I paid much tax at all in the first instance as I don’t generate much income to be taxed.
See above. And I really wouldn’t describe their “support” as “strongly” given the ridiculously small and relatively insignificant contribution those nations make to bombing others as frequently as the US with the exception of UK and France.
I respond typing 90 words a minute. I make a few typos and homophone errors. But “peoples” and “people” are both acceptable plurals of people.
Not without Russia it didn’t.
As I said, since WWII they haven’t beat anyone without assistance.
The Taliban doesn’t look all that defeated from everybody else’s perspective:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/asia/taliban-kunduz-afghanistan.html?_r=0
Last time I looked at the definition of “defeated” it didn’t really involve being “well-funded” and with the ability to capture a city of 300,000 people. Maybe you are operating in a world that uses the Stupid People Dictionary?
Typos. But I’ll tell you what, I’ll proof every post and then we’ll see who makes more errors in the future when I’m actually make an effort to check my work.
The most ignorant statements of the hour:
“Lots of organizations “consistently tested” things what does that have to do with benefits to the vast majority of citizens much less people with AIDS?”
“But I’ve never derived any direct or indirect benefit from the portions of my tax dollars that go to the US military”
AND
“I’ll concede the US military initiated GPS, but it’s not like it wouldn’t have come to market in the absence of US military involvement ”
“Again, so what? You are attempting to argue “but-for” causation and/or “without the military these things would not exist” and that’s a lie.”
[The other debater (me) is just providing evidence that tax money used by the military have indeed benefited the society. The other debater never suggested those benefits would have been absent without the military]
“But you indirectly established my premise for me by linking to four examples of where when the US military even “attempted” to capture someone, the casualties were non-existent or much less than say your average killing of 130 civilian wedding attendees or bombing of a hospital.”
[There are other examples where boots on the ground caused more casualties that drones or fighter jets]
“Not without Russia it didn’t.”
[Russia did not provide any troops or equipment to US forces in France, Belgium, Italy, North Africa, Korea, the Pacific]
“Last time I looked at the definition of “defeated” it didn’t really involve being “well-funded” and with the ability to capture a city of 300,000 people”
[1) stated earlier those enemies were “unfunded”. 2) Ignorance of military operations: if you are unable to hold the position you captured, then you are a weak armed force.3) Ignorance of the Afghan conflict: the Taliban knows they cannot defeat the Afghan army, so they look for weak points, show up and run away. That is what happened in Kunduz]
“But I’ll tell you what, I’ll proof every post and then we’ll see who makes more errors in the future when I’m actually make an effort to check my work.”
Seriously dude, grow up! You really think I give a damn about your English?
Yes, the new fibrine bandage was developed with funds from the US military. Do some research again. You do have poor research skills.
“People NEVER takes an “s”. It is already plural.”
WRONG!
You are too arrogant, so I couldn’t help myself. Note that I am not an English speaking person.
This place has become an English 101 classroom:
When people refers to ALL it never takes a “s”. When people refers to ALL THE INDIVIDUALS” it never takes a “s”. When people refers to “THOSE WITHIN” ( a tribe within, for instance) then it takes an “s”. Now read the sentence:
“…hasn’t been able to “defeat” any nation or peoples, and most of those people were uneducated, unfunded…”
Is he referring to ALL or “THOSE WITHIN”? The first part suggests he is referring to “those within”, but that is contradicted in the second part when he used “people” that must be associated with ALL. His intent is clearly ALL.
I do not give a damn about your English or anybody’s else English here. It is very interesting that you call me arrogant after I underlined the clear mistakes made by a native English speaker who continuously taunt me because of my English. Clearly a lack of arrogance would mean to quietly accept his name calling and his attempt to downgrade my intellect because in his mind and in yours a Shakespearean English is necessary for being labeled as an intelligent person or even a true American.
You can call me whatever you want, but try at least to pinpoint what is factually incorrect about my statements before you call me arrogant. If you find incorrect statements, then by any means call me an ignorant. Your insults become a pure reflection of your lack of intellect if you do not follow those basic logical steps in analysis.
Wow, arnt you an arrogant cunt. I am a pacifist but if i hear you Mutter so much bulllshit and selfrightous crap i can only hope that people like you in the US get alot more of your own medicine inside your own country,maybe that would cure your perverted minds. You know like seeing your wife bleed out next to you, or some kids ripped apart by “bombs for humanity”, maybe you plan a wedding someday? Or have to visit a hospital? Wouldn’t it be great if you could experience some of this first hand. *facepalm*
1) learn what arrogant means, before you use it.
2)I need your pacifist skills here where I am. There is a group called ISIL that does not want to leave you in peace. Would you convince them to stop please?
So here we are, you thinking you actually get to decide what names I call you guess the word was well picked after all.
Got some news for you, without the US invading countries based on lies, and bombing people without any legal process there would not be an Isis in Iraq / Syria now. The only unfair thing I can see is that Isis is not doing its thing at the place deserving all of this shit. Inside the US.
According to the Afghan Interior Ministry 15 Taliban fighters were firing against on Afghan forces from inside the hospital.
Since he and apparently you as well really know what happened, is it true? Again is the Afghan ministry saying the truth? You know what happened, right? So tell us please because many of us would like to know.
@ Lenk
Please provide a link for your following assertion:
The only statement I can find even remotely close is this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34433302
https://news.vice.com/article/msf-says-afghan-hospital-was-repeatedly-hit-by-bombs-in-prolonged-attack
Do you speak English well enough to comprehend the difference in the meaning of the words “firing against from inside the hospital” as opposed to “hiding inside the hospital” and “firing adjacent to the hospital”?
Do you?
And this is how you would present your case against the US? The military is guilty of war crimes after PURPOSELY bombed a hospital because the UN human right chief made that statement?
You should definitely stop bragging about your law degree. Dumb Ass!!
shorter Lenk: “When in doubt, trust authority!”
Especially authority batting .034 on the Truth…
The military does not strafe targets it they just bombs them buddy, and you know that.
>>None of this stuff is simple decision making by a single person.
No one said it was, John. Here’s my question to you:
Given that the MSF had provided their coordinates repeatedly, recently, and immediately upon being bombed,
Stipulating that we had forces in the area for the sake of argument (I’m somewhat less convinced),
Stipulating that there might have been Taliban in the area (disputed by hospital staff that they were in the building),
does that still justify bombing a target known to be a hospital serving whomever comes through the door without prejudice (one would assume our own forces if needed)?
Given that this military adventure is against “insurgents” (otherwise known as guerilla fighting) does deploying this level of fire power even make sense? You’d sincerely argue that there was no other alternative? None?
You can tell me that it’s complicated, and uncertain, and “fog of war,” and I’ll respond that may all be true but, then, it seems to me that the people we have making these decisions have an insufficient level of tactical skill to be doing the job they’ve been assigned.
It is just not acceptable to blame this on a chain of command, thus absolving everyone of responsibility – “collateral damage” never a more sickening word have I heard. The coordinates of the hospital had been given to all the forces in the area and despite being contacted and told that they were bombing a hospital they kept on going at it way past overkill, the whole hospital decimated.
Having seen the video with soldiers mowing down journalists and civilians, children included https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0 and treating it like a video game, I think that cavalier, and ‘doing my duty’, feckless and immoral attitude probably goes more towards a real answer than anything else. War destroys the humane in many, killing machines work well for the leaders they are fighting for but not for humanity. They, the civilians are dehumanized to the “other”, the “target” all the easier to kill with impunity.
Just another example of the rank disrespect of civilian life and international Law by many a country (or maybe leader is more apt) playing the ‘great game’, purporting to be fighting the ‘good war’ (for whom? it begs the question) by killing civilians en masse whether in schools, hospitals, ambulances, at home, on the beach and whether journalists, peacekeepers, doctors, wedding processions, funerals – you name it – anything goes!
You’re a joke. You’ve written a shitferbrains movie script that you’ve plagiarized from all the war flicks you’ve sat through from your couch or your Lazy-Boy as you pretend to be “In The Know” about such things, and about how this specific slaughter came about. But the result of what you’ve written says that you must think US military personal are extremely stupid and or incompetent. I don’t know what the buildings looked like, but since all involved parties had repeatedly been informed of the hospital facility’s exact location, and had been called by phone even during the bombing, then whomever was in charge of the bombing, and whomever was flying planes, and whomever partook in the bombing raid in any way at all are going to have to explain their inability to know that they were bombing a hospital and killing or injuringdoctors, nurses and other civilians.
@ Kitt
The American military doesn’t ever “explain their inability” to do, refrain from doing, or why they did X, Y or Z. That’s not their job. Their job is to protect people and stuff, and blow stuff up and stuff. There will be no accountability whatsoever because that’s not how America rolls. America makes mistakes and stuff, but you generally don’t hold America or American’s liability for their negligent or reckless mistakes, you only hold America or Americans accountable for stuff when they do it “intentionally with malice aforethought”. And since America and Americans by definition cannot ever act with malice, animus, negligence, recklessness, stupidly or anything but pure distilled levels of unicorn and butterfly like sweetness of “intention”, then that necessarily precludes America or Americans from any sort of accountability for its actions–anywhere. Well to be precise sometimes America likes to hold a few low hanging apples on the tree of American greatness accountable for something or other, but that’s so they can maintain the fiction that there is actual accountability for anybody but the plebes, little people and working class stiffs.
“Most people think of a hospital as a multistory building with a large parking lot but these “hospitals ” in Afghanistan, especially in the North East are generally a single story residence converted into a hospital. They may sometimes be painted white. Other times they appear to be any other kind of structure.”
The hospital opened exactly four years ago, in 2011.
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/news-stories/press-release/afghanistan-msf-opens-surgical-hospital-kunduz
No more excuses.
@John
“Most people think of a hospital as a multistory building with a large parking lot ”
Most?
So it’s a game of, quick, don’t think, what comes to mind when I say the word ______________ . Now, Pin the tail on the donkey – okay, that’s the target, or not!
Not nearly as high tech or sophisticated as I had thought – but you could be onto something, it would certainly explain why so many civilians, in so many different circumstances, in so many places are attacked and killed.
?Might Is Right! It was meant to be the new world order but there’s a new player on the block Russia, and there’s another one coming up fast China. The U.S. has been making the world intolerable and probably killing millions in the process. The world was becoming very very dangerous for ordinary people. The U.S. police turned into heavily harmed military. The U.S. media become state control propaganda outlets. The U.S. killing spree is coming to an end the U.S. government was shocked when Russia started to kill ISIS by bombing them.
The news media was going crazy with the Russians are killing “the good guys”. The U.S. will suddenly want friends and will become the friendly nation. Its arse kissing Joey the U.K., is just going to have to shut up and stop hiding behind the U.S. with a “you do this, you do that or else hold me back hold me back U.S. hold me back.”
It’s a pity that doctors had to be killed today but I think things are going to change from here on. The world was unbalanced with “we are number one. We have the most powerful military in the world. We are exceptional.”
Why do I call Greenwald’s supporters stupid, ignorant and even dumb asses:
I suggested Greenwald gave up his US citizenship so he can stop paying taxes. Therefore, he will not have to finance the US government, which he considered a “terrorist state”.
Mona the dumb ass claims he will go to jail.
Microman the ignorant claims
“He has to pay U.S. income tax unless he renounces his citizenship and waits another ten years.”
And he claimed again after I challenged him.
“If you relinquish your U.S. citizenship you still have to pay income taxes for another ten years. Look it up — you’ll learn one thing in your life and see it’s not so bad.”
What does the law states?
Effective June 17, 2008 in accordance with The Heroes Earnings and Assistance Relief Act of 2008, IRC Section 877A- Tax Responsibilities of Expatriation was added to implement the abolishment of the above expatriation rules with regards to the filing of U.S. tax returns for a period of ten (10) years, to be replaced by a one time mark-to-market tax on an individual’s net unrealized gain on property over a specified exemption limit, as of the day before the expatriation date. (IRS Publication 519, 2014
That ten year rule was over seven years ago. You pay ONE tax when you give up you US passport, then you do not pay anymore US taxes and you will not go to jail. So what are your excuses? Why you keep financing a “terrorist state” ?
Nothing personal. They are just ignorant.
Moreover, renouncing one’s citizenship isn’t quite as easy as voluntarily turning over your passport. Your renunciation of citizenship has to be approved by the US Department of State.
So generally speaking the amendments to the IRC regarding expatriation and taxes are limited to a very small subset of humans. The rest of the HEART Act applies specifically to current and former military members.
So here is my question, are you really as a big a moron as you appear here on a daily basis or is it because your Arabic is better than your English and you don’t really have the capacity to speak and read English for comprehension?
You know what non-American non-tax lawyers should do when it comes to the US IRC? They should keep their cakeholes shut so they don’t look like complete know-nothings when it springs open and out flies some of the idiot frosting that is covering their purported brains.
Wow what a very long and detailed comment. Maybe as you stated, my English is bad.
So can you please highlight the part of the new law that requires those who relinquish their citizenship to pay taxes for another ten years? I just cannot find it or maybe I cannot read it.
As soon as you show me that part, then I shall retract my accusation that You, Mona and Microman are just stupid and ignorant.
I never said the law requires those who “relinquish their citizenship to pay taxes for another ten years.” What I did say was it is ironic for you to call others a “dumbass” by claiming Greenwald could simply relinquish his passport and then stop paying taxes without going to prison. You are a total fool if you for one minute thought the government would ever make a law like that.
As the link I gave you to CNN Money details, he could be on the hook for a lot and for a very, very long time.
You are an utter doofus.
“I never said the law requires those who “relinquish their citizenship to pay taxes for another ten years.”
I never claimed you did. Read again what I wrote. I clearly stated Macroman wrote it.
“You are a total fool if you for one minute thought the government would ever make a law like that.”
Thousands of US citizens do it every single year. You relinquish your passport, you pay ONE tax based on you income, property, estates…and you are done!
BY ANY MEANS SEND THE LINK AGAIN THAT PROVES THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS FALSE. AND READ IRS PUBLICATION 519 TO SHOW EVERYBODY HOW WRONG I AM.
Dumb ASS!!
It’s linked in a reply to you below. This quaint idea you have that there is this easy, “one” tax that ends a relinquisher’s tax burden and then, pronto they cease to be under threat of prison, is actually hilarious. rr and I have already documented the errors in your facile notions. Now you’re just trying to brazen it out.
Why do I call you a Dumb Ass?
“one” tax that ends a relinquisher’s tax burden and then, pronto they cease to be under threat of prison, is actually hilarious. rr and I have already documented the errors in your facile notions.”
Where is the document? I am still waiting. rr copied a long piece of the regulation that stated exactly what I wrote: the individual would pay an expatriation tax based his/her income. ONE tax. The ten year requirement is gone!!
You, as a dumb ass, did not understand the CNN Money article. The “exit tax” in that article is exactly what I was referring to. The legal term is expatriation tax. It is based on your income, property….You will pay ONE tax calculated using the market price of all your assets with the assumption that you would sell them the day you give up your passport. If you decide to keep your retirement plans in America, then when you retire you will pay taxes on those investments as if you were US citizens. That is what the CNN article was referring to.
There is no excuses. You and Greenwald may give up your passports and stop financing the ‘terrorist government”. The thousands of Americans who give up their citizenship every year are not in jail!!
For a “lawyer” your understanding of basic regulations is quite questionable.
DUMB ASS!!!!
It’s so cute how lenk frequently walks into making a fool of himself, including making bullshit legal claims in a forum populated with a slew of lawyers.
Then show the law counselor!
Show the law that contradicts what my statement:
You relinquish your passport, you pay ONE tax based on your income, property, estate…and it’s done.
You and your slew of lawyers can easily destroy me by providing the law that contradicts that statement. Do it quickly so you can prove how foolish I am.
@ Lenk
You don’t simply “relinquish your passport” as I noted above. You have to take very specific actions in front of certain government officials, and then those officials have to actual approve your rejection of citizenship. That is not a given.
The group of people eligible/obligated/permitted to pay ONE expatriation tax are those people, again as linked above, who are in one of very few particular categories i.e. those with over $2,000,000 net assets or have an average tax burden for the prior five years of approximately $135,000. There are also some provisions for people born dual citizens and those with green cards. Otherwise, all other people are subject to a different taxation regime upon relinquishing their citizenship i.e. all those with less than $2,000,000, who didn’t have a 5 year prior tax burden of $135,000 +, those not dual citizens, and those not green card holders.
Why are you so fucking stupid? Do you work at it or were you born that way?
Dude!! You do not notice you are the one talking nonsense?
1) The US government does not prevent law abiding citizens from relinquishing their passports. Unless you are involved in legal matters in America, the procedures to relinquish your passport is not that complicated. Thousands of US citizens do it every year.
2) If your income is low, then you do not even have to worry about the expatriation tax. That is even better.
THE TEN YEAR REQUIREMENT IS OVER!!!! DOES THIS GET THROUGH YOUR BRAIN? CAN YOU SO CALLED LAWYERS READ AND UNDERSTAND THE LAW?
Why don’t you show me the law that states if in 2015 an individual who relinquishes his/her US citizenship will have to spend ten years paying US taxes.
Well done Ron.
.. You are so ignorant
Editor of this article has really done a good job..
Who created terrorists and who tried to stop them ask your self idiot.
“Why do I call Greenwald’s supporters stupid, ignorant and even dumb asses”
I’ll hazard a guess – you have neither the vocabulary nor the powers to construct a reasoned argument ?
So it is up to you to prove that my argument is not reasoned. It is quite a simple argument:
Why are you financing a government you strongly believe is a terrorist organization?
“stupid, ignorant and even dumb asses”
Name calling is not an argument.
Name is not an argument, but it can be the result of an argument:
Person 1: The Taliban is an unfunded organization
Reality: For years, government reports, journalist reports, security reports, eyewitness reports, UN reports have stated the Taliban is well funded using money from Opium.
Conclusion: Person 1 is an ignorant.
yes it is.
Because activists are better off out of prison, than in it. And contrary to what you claimed, even if one relinquishes a passport, one can violate the law by failing to pay taxes which can be substantial and go on for a very long time, as per the CNN Money article. Prison is not removed as a possibility that way; one can retain a long-term obligation of taxes.
You just won’t admit how thoroughly you’ve been shown to be a doofus. So you’re just gonna keep pretending the shit you’ve been shown doesn’t say what it does, and that you didn’t claim prison was taken off the table by relinquishing one’s passport.
“And contrary to what you claimed, even if one relinquishes a passport, one can violate the law by failing to pay taxes which can be substantial and go on for a very long time, as per the CNN Money article”
The CNN Money article clearly stated that you have to pay a possible “exit” tax. This is the expatriation tax, the ONE tax I have been referring in multiple comments here. The article also referred to possible taxes for those who decide to keep their retirement plans. When they retire years afterwards, then they will have to pay additional taxes on those plans as if they were US citizens.
There is absolutely nothing contradictory with the CNN article and my statements regarding that subject.
Are you really a lawyer?
1) You cannot provide ONE law that contradicts my statements.
2) The best you can do is to find an article that does not even contradict what I stated
Yet you seriously believe you proved I was wrong.
This has been my statement again and again: Greenwald can relinquish his passport, pay ONE tax and it is done. He will not go to jail.
This is a break down for you as a dumb ass.
Greenwald can relinquish his passport: tell us what law stating he may not.
Pay ONE tax and it is done: tell us the law that states it is incorrect
He will not go to jail: tell us for what crime he would go to jail in that process.
You are a really a dumb ass!!
I think everyone else has explained why your childish trolling is demented, as far as taxes go. There’s one more issue: If someone gives up their US citizenship, the consequences go well beyond taxes. For example, the next time Glenn needs to visit the US, he might not even be able to get a visitor’s visa. It’s impossible to know, and there’s no appeal mechanism.
How is it “childish” and “demented”?
Where does the US get money to buy weapons? From you, from Greenwald’s taxes, right? So why does he keep giving them money to buy weapons?
He does not have to come back. He can debate and bash the “terrorist government” from where he is. The consequence of know coming back is way better than his current situation in which he pays for the weapons used by the “terrorist state”.
from DailyBeast:
The AC-130 does not deliver guided munitions (it doesn’t “drop bombs”). It was referred to as “Puff the Magic dragon” in Vietnam and has been upgraded since. It is a monstrously big platform for heavy artillery and rapid cannon fire (on the order of 100 rounds per second for 20mm).
There are plenty of video clips of this thing in action. The firepower is unprecedented and blunt; using it in civilian settings is savage.
Long Live Russia!
How to explain this “accident”? Well, there’s this:
And this:
Also, this might have been a mistake, as Al Jazeera had learned during the invasion of Iraq:
The world’s only remaining superpower has a hundred year plan of destruction and reorganization for the wider Middle East and Eurasia, comparable to the historical European Hundred Years War, with al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, and now ISIS as the ever-mutating pretext which the West’s intelligence agencies-controlled media must use to fashion a virtual reality geopolitics for Western public consumption. Remarkably, Russia, under Putin, has called the American empire’s bluff and is kinetically proceeding to destroy the U.S.’s threadbare pretext for a century of war profiteering, natural resource exclusionism, and neoliberal gangsterism in the Middle East and beyond by destroying the specter of ISIS itself, the phantasmatic force against which the empire fights itself and terrorizes the world. The phantom menace of terroristic Jihad, which was awakened by the U.S. during its proxy war against the USSR in Afghanistan, must be called out by its true name and then denied its secret raison d’etre by having the independent nations of the world through the United Nations decide as a body what is the globally legal procedure for combatting terrorism of such a supposedly global scale.
It would be helpful if the American public would tear themselves away from the teevee long enough to figure out what is actually going on in the world.
Of course this would mean no longer paying any attention to network/cable news programs and not reading The New York Times and other “establishment” publications. Protesting the “election” next year by signing absentee ballots “NO CONFIDENCE” would be a good start too.
Once citizens start figuring out truthful history (as opposed to the propagandistic bullshit the PTB have been peddling since, oh, around 1913 or so), then citizens on this planet might have a chance at correcting our international “ship of state”.
We need massive Truth and Reconciliation Commissions dealing with decades of war crimes and atrocities that have gone without proper investigations or acceptable punishment of the perps.
“No justice. No peace.”
Has anyone here seen the result of a targeted air strike. If it was meant to be destroyed, you would not be seeing images of a burnt out building, it would be a pile of rubble. Smarten up, and stop spreading troll propoganda.
I didn’t read it as an accusation of a targeted strike. I read it as the hospital was in the burn zone for a target nearby and the U.S. didn’t care. But the hospital burned, and people were killed, and pointing that out wouldn’t be propaganda but rather reporting.
We know exactly what we have bombed. We knew it when we bombed wedding partied and Jargas in Afghanistan. When we were blowing up whole villages in Yemen 4-6 years ago.
Second, let stop trying to separate USA from Saudi Arabia. When you get caught masturbating you don’t say “Oh, it was my hand not me”.
People who rule us are worst then every Hitler that existed in history. It is our own ignorance and arrogance puts us in denial.
Otto: ” It really goes back to the question of are we killing more than were making?”
And going back one more step: “Are we ourselves terrorists?”
fromZeroHedge dot com “this morning’s US bombing was nothing more than another example of the utter incompetence, carelessness and disregard for innocent civilian lives that has become a staple hallmark of US foreign policy”
our incompetent military has FAILED TO PREVAIL in all four major conflicts since WW 2
Maybe they just need a little more money?
I would believe this was a hack – that some Russian agent got in and swapped the coordinates and tricked the U.S. into this to make it look bad. But if that is true, the U.S. military is going to have to come out, admit they got hacked, roll some heads in the command structure, and try to convince us that the new system is hack-proof. Anything less, and we have to assume they did it deliberately after all, because the only reason ANY company covers up a hack is so that they can get hacked again, harder, the next time, because the same fools in charge of their IT are still drawing their oversized salaries.
The Russians hacked the U.S. military in order to trick them into bombing a hospital in order to make the U.S. look bad? Ludicrous. Look at the first tweet included in the article — even if your silly hypothesis was true it would not explain the next 30 minutes of bombing after the U.S. would have realized its “mistake.” The Russians don’t hesitate to kill their enemies, but to attribute a willful setup to have MSF bombed on their part is beyond the pale — the Russians’ own interests aren’t served by that plan, even if they have only a 1% chance of getting caught. So you might have to reconsider the notion that the U.S. did it on their own. You come off as someone that would blame an alien invasion before you would actually consider the idea that maybe the U.S. wanted to bomb that area and simply didn’t care about the hospital being in the burn zone.
Uh, I read this as snark… I hope I’m right… Otherwise, I can’t even…
Maybe…I hope you’re right as well (even if that would make me the fool that took the bait).
Why would that be your first reaction to this, the US got hacked?
Lenk. Go eat a nice big GMO sandwich. What a maroon.
lenk really needs to get a new brian, doesn’t he?
There are still people in the world who wonder why the French Revolution featured thousands of French aristocrats meeting the guillotine. These people wonder, why would they kill their “best and brightest, their leaders”? They think that it makes no sense. They also think that the rise of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco in the 1930s just…happened, and that it had nothing to do with the spectre of communism, the corporate status quo, and The Vatican.
Are we killing more than we are making?
That pretty much cuts to the chase.
Capitalism, government, partisanship, division–all things now serve this goal–to kill more than you make.
It’s as if nature herself has been turned on her head. We once fought the endless night, but now the night needs our help.
The sun shines too bright.
Frederick Taylor lives. We must expend ordnance at precisely the rate that we can manufacture, and “just in time”, deliver it.
I’m gonna go throw up now.
As Colin Powell told Larry King in 2004, “I mean, I was in a unit that was responsible for My Lai. I got there after My Lai happened. So, in war, these sorts of horrible things happen every now and again, but they are still to be deplored.” At least in that interview, he acknowledged that it happened. At the time, what he wrote in his report on the incident was “In direct refutation of this portrayal [of the alleged misconduct] is the fact that relations between American Division soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent.”
I don’t know why the hospital was targeted. The only explanation which springs to mind is that the US administration is trying to erode public support for the war in Afghanistan. It is now the longest running war in US history, and at some point, it will be necessary to wind it down in order to start a new war. The US is a democracy, and to create public acceptance for ending a war, it is necessary to either a) accomplish the original objective, or b) dampen public enthusiasm. Obama seems to be opting for the second approach.
“it will be necessary to wind it down in order to start a new war.”
There have been a massive reduction in foreign troops and US combat operations. That constitute a wind down. Anyway, my question is why you, Grennwald and most of his supporters keep financing a government that “targets” hospitals and civilians?
Actually, I’ve long advocated that ‘Grennwald’ stop financing the war in Afghanistan. But my influence on him is much less than you appear to believe.
Yes, Afghanistan has extensive natural resources, but it will take decades to develop the mines necessary to exploit them. Since the country is unstable, companies are reluctant to invest the large sums of money required. So I happen to believe it’s an inferior investment, quite independently of the question of whether hospitals are targeted or not.
“I’ve long advocated that ‘Grennwald’ stop financing the war in Afghanistan. But my influence on him is much less than you appear to believe.”
You can’t get to Grenn without going through Mona. Don’t you know that?
Send her a bottle of wine and ask her real nice …
Full of non-related nonsequiters … extensive “natural resources”??? Ya mean like poppies for opium — it’s 70% of the GDP [Gross Domestic Product]
Who is talking about inferior investment?
Yeah … but they really fooled him with that vial of Saddam ‘yellow cake’.
Wrong. The War on Poverty (as I write this from it’s epicenter) is America’s longest running* war. And I regret to inform you, poverty is winning.
*… and the War on Drugs is a close second.
Sometimes, in a war of attrition, the goal is not to win, but just to make the opposition suffer. If the poor are made to suffer enough, eventually they will question their decision to be poor. This is called tough love.
I love you too. :)
One correction. The U.S. is actually a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy and the reason is that a Democracy is nothing but a dictatorship by the majority.
Granted. There have to be certain controls to prevent the inmates from taking over the asylum. But they do get to vote on what’s for dinner.
There primeval slime impersonated by the US government has far more destructive effects than any global warming and all plagues of the past combined.
Ooga booga… Russia bad… US good…Thanks for writing the articles you do and pointing out our (US) hypocrisy and propaganda.
PS some of the trolls here seem to be using the same techniques I read about in the article about trolls on the government payroll.
What is your point Greenwald? The US targeted a hospital to kill medical staffs and patients?
It is high time for you to clearly state your points and your SOLUTIONS as an “activist”. My suggestion is for you to stop giving your tax dollars to a government that you suggested is worse than ISIL or the Taliban. It would make sense. With your high income through books and speeches you probably give a lot of money to a government that used that cash to target and kill civilians indiscriminately according to you. You can still bash the US government every day without paying your taxes.
I’ve been trying to get Glenn to incorporate his-self for some time now, lenk, because corporations are people too, you know.
*That way, he would pay less than Warran Buffet’s secretary … if anything at all.
*That way, he would pay less than Warran Buffet’s secretary … if anything at all.”
That would not be enough. He has to pay ZERO taxes, then he will be in a better position to bash a government he calls terrorist. An activist must put his money where his mouth is.
Don’t be a fucking goose, lenk. If Glenn and the rest of us who act as resistance to the crimes of the U.S. government all stopped paying taxes the government would be able to silence us all with prison. Handing the U.S. government an unassailable reason to lock him up would be utter folly on Glenn’s part.
Besides, he’s also paying for some good things with his tax dollars.
But you already know all this. You just hate it that what Glenn writes above is true and he said it.
1) You are a Dumb Ass.
2) Why? “Besides, he’s also paying for some good things with his tax dollars”
Would you give your money to Hamas knowing they blew up places packed with teenagers?
Would you give your money to ISIL knowing what they do to Shias and Christians?
Yet, both groups provide services to people living in their area. Any reasonable individual who believe in human rights would not finance those groups because their violent actions towards civilians, peaceful individuals exceed whatever “good things” they do for those under their control. Yet you and Greenwald give money to the US government. Greenwald thinks the US is as bad as ISIL. The US uses your money to support Israel, which according to you is worst than Palestinian terrorist groups.
Greenwald does not even live in the US. He just has to relinquish his passport. He will not go to jail and he will be able to state his money does not buy bombs for the US government. Mona, yes you will go to jail, but you will have the proud feeling of knowing your money does not buy weapons for Israel, and in US jail you can still share your ideas to the public.
Your positions just reflect hypocrisy when you are the ones buying the weapons for the “terrorist state”.
Nah. Prudence, lenk, prudence. Much better a Glenn Greenwald writing his columns and stomping the likes of Alan Dershowitz in debates than muzzled in prison. But I can clearly see why YOU would prefer the latter. Well, he ain’t gonna give that to you.
Do you have brain?
Greenwald WILL NOT go to prison if he stops paying taxes. He just has to relinquish his passport.
That is why he keeps paying taxes? So he gives his money to a “terrorist state” so he can debate?
What a dumb ass!!!
Er, um, says he who calls others a “dumbass.”
Let me make you famous:
So if Greenwald relinquishes his passport, will he still have to pay US taxes under penalty go going to jail?
Please say yes, please say yes, please say yes.
Yes, unless you think failing to pay the taxes described here results in nothing?
My Lord what a Dumb Ass!! Did you understand anything you read in that article?
If you are really a lawyer, why don’t you ask a tax attorney whether my statement is false. You must know a few of them.
The CNN article was referring to possible investments such as retirement plans. If an individual decides to keep those investments in America, then years later when he/she retires he/she will have to pay taxes on them as if he/she was still a US citizen. Why? Because those specific investments are designed for US citizens and US residents not for foreigners.
An individual can liquidate those investments and include them in the calculation of the ONE tax I have been referring to. CNN calls it “exit” tax. The IRS calls it “expatriation tax”.
Again, Greenwald can relinquish his passport, pay ONE tax and he is done. He will not go to jail.
He has to pay U.S. income tax unless he renounces his citizenship and waits another ten years. But he can pay his Brazilian taxes and offset his income tax payments to the U.S., as he probably does. Or they’ll arrest him when he comes to the country to do events, etc. So, to spell it out for you, as a fact, he CANNOT “bash the US (sic) every day without paying [his] taxes.”
His point is that the U.S. government is not in a position to chastise the Russians, and he might feel that he’s in a better position to make this and other points if he is not in prison. And his ‘solution,’ I would guess, is to stop bombing the Middle East on a daily basis — not too hard to read between the lines on that one. When did he suggest the U.S. is worse than ISIL or the Taliban? Oh, never?! I would guess, being serious here, that if you were a troll employed by the U.S., you would have some idea about the existence and use of commas in English sentence structure, so my guess is that you’re an Israeli troll — you lie, make no logical sense, are ignorant of the most basic facts of U.S. law, and can get no neuron to fire other than “Well, if you don’t like it, either solve it completely in some form I can understand (a Sisyphean task) or piss off!” Hopefully Glenn is able to resist your intellectual fortitude and won’t be intimidated from continuing his stellar journalism. But I bet you get paid regardless, so who cares? Between your salary and that, er, free olive grove you got, you must be sitting pretty, even compared to Glenn!
“So, to spell it out for you, as a fact, he CANNOT “bash the US (sic) every day without paying [his] taxes.”
FALSE!
Millions of individuals around the world bash the US without giving a single penny to Uncle Sam. Many Americans relinquish their passports because they do not want to pay taxes. Your statement is wrong and ignorant.
“His point is that the U.S. government is not in a position to chastise the Russians”
In that case, his point is as stupid as your defense. Since America was loaded with slaves, then the US is not in a position to chastise countries that allow slavery with their borders. Since police forces in America are involved in human rights violations, then the US is not in a position to chastise Rio police department. Since France sent thousands of troops to Africa, then Chirac was not in a position to chastise the US invasion of Iraq. The US chastises Russia for causing civilian casualties because both countries recognize killing civilians is wrong and the maximum has to be done to avoid it. Was the Soviet Union in a position to blame America’s human rights record during the civil rights movement? Their continuous blame of the US helped place that movement in the international stage while in fact the USSR was an epicenter of human rights violations at that time.
“Well, if you don’t like it, either solve it completely in some form I can understand (a Sisyphean task) or piss off!”
Greenwald already left the US. So, that is another ignorant statement unless you can prove that a government, or individuals or even I were responsible for his decision.
“Hopefully Glenn is able to resist your intellectual fortitude and won’t be intimidated from continuing his stellar journalism. ”
Greenwald claims he is not only a journalist, but an “activist” journalist. Financing a government that he calls terrorist is not activism. It is just pure hypocrisy.
“When did he suggest the U.S. is worse than ISIL or the Taliban? Oh, never?”
“there is an argument to make that outside forces that go in and start bombing that country or invading that country are actually terrorists more so than the people in the country (Iraq)”
Glenn Greenwald, 2014 HBO
“bet you get paid regardless, so who cares? Between your salary and that, er, free olive grove you got, you must be sitting pretty, even compared to Glenn!”
No, I am not, but if you are not on Greenwald’s payroll, then you need a clean handkerchief. Your face has been buried in his ass for too long.
If you relinquish your U.S. citizenship you still have to pay income taxes for another ten years. Look it up — you’ll learn one thing in your life and see it’s not so bad. After you do that, please do the right thing and correct “wrong and ignorant” above to “correct and well-informed.” We all expect you to do the classy thing here.
“Millions of individuals around the world bash the US without giving a single penny to Uncle Sam.” So true. These people are what we call “citizens of countries other than the U.S.” Great point, though.
Your next, uh, point, is a bit long-winded so let’s just take the first example since the rest don’t rise above its intellectual merit — “America was loaded with slaves…” Change “was” to “is,” and then you would have an applicable analogy, and then you (the proverbial you, not literally you because the literal you is too thick) could easily see that the U.S. would then not have a leg to stand on in criticizing slave-holding countries. Though I must admit “slavery with…borders” sounds new and terrifying — those poor borders!
Your next point is a complete non sequitur — the quote and the response seem to have only a tangential relationship at best, and the point about the government being responsible for *his* decision is incomprehensible (he makes his own decisions, I bet) but I’ll try to respond in good faith anyway. Living outside of the U.S. and renouncing your citizenship are two different things. Greenwald (and I just checked during my daily face-in-ass burial — smells like roses, by the way) has done the former but not the latter. So he still has to pay taxes — stomping your foot doesn’t change that.
ISIL and the Taliban did not exist in Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion (you can ask, say, the DIA itself about that if you don’t believe me). Equating the “people in the country” with ISIL and the Taliban would be, uh, stupid — so right up your alley. But just reread the quote of Glenn you give and try to understand what he is saying and how that is quite different from you claim he is saying. I can’t do it for you. I would if I could (I like to think I’m charitable), but I can’t.
“If you relinquish your U.S. citizenship you still have to pay income taxes for another ten years. Look it up — you’ll learn one thing in your life and see it’s not so bad. After you do that, please do the right thing and correct “wrong and ignorant” above to “correct and well-informed.” We all expect you to do the classy thing here.”
Sorry, let me change “wrong and ignorant”. I was supposed to write “wrong, ignorant, stupid, and illiterate”. Go back again to the IRS website and read, read, and read again the regulations regarding Expatriation Tax. Specially THE LAST REGULATION. Hint: you look like a fool when your correction is actually blatantly erroneous.
“Equating the “people in the country” with ISIL and the Taliban would be, uh, stupid — so right up your alley. But just reread the quote of Glenn you give and try to understand what he is saying and how that is quite different from you claim he is saying. I can’t do it for you. I would if I could (I like to think I’m charitable), but I can’t.”
Have you used the handkerchief?
Just out of curiosity, to whom do you pay taxes?
Mainly US.
Ah, I see. You do support the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians and don’t care about, or don’t have the intelligence to understand, the blatant hypocrisy involved in condemning the Russians of the same thing. Okay.
I am not a hypocrite. If I believe the US government is targeting and killing innocent civilians, then I will start a revolution and if I cannot then I will give up my passport and run away. I will not finance this type of government. You, Greenwald and others believe the opposite, yet you are still financing that government. It does not make any sense at all.
Russia???
lenk, do you believe the U.S. has ever committed evil acts against human beings?
Great troll take-down technique!
Thanks, John. I only wish I could pick on someone my own size, but Lenk is better than nothing.
After reading almost all the comments here it seems “Lenk” is nothing but a thread hijacker.
Ambassador Power calls on Russia to cease bombing civilians. And, not too long after the US drops a bomb on a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders. So, what – in their private moments – do these people think to themselves? I mean, not what they say in public, in their sanitized memoirs, or tell their official spokesperson to say.
Do they tell themselves :”Whoopsie.”
Or: “Ouch.”
Or: “Shit happens.”
Or: “Oops; fucked the pooch on that one (plus giggle).”
If they had a shred of human decency they would be on their knees retching into a toilet bowl until the tears ran unabated down their cheeks. Somehow I’m not picturing it.
And, what do their colleagues say to them: “Bad play, old sport.”
“Chin up; could happen to any of us.”
“Shake it off.”
Or, might they avert their eyes, walk on the other side of the corridor, and plan to get the hell out of these kinds of operations. Not able to get a picture of that either. I imagine there are some who will send Ambassador Power sympathy flowers. These. Folks. Are. Slime.
I’m beginning to suspect there must be some kind of mandatory medical procedure for ‘folks’ entering a high office of public service. Forget gang stalking, high-energy micro beams … I’m thinking full frontal lobotomies, or something?
There was a time, some years ago now iirc, when I compared Ms Power’s writing/oratory skills on par w/ Glenn Greenwald … that was sometime before she became Ambassador Power.
Just stunning.
Ms Powers was ‘grilled’ by Martha Raditz last week over the Saudis being named to the UN Human Rights Commission. Martha seemed puzzled that a nation that beheads hundreds of people would be named to such a commission. Ms Powers dismissed the appointment as being a formality and said it would have “no impact” on human rights.
next question.
I actually saw some that ‘grilling’. .. and wish I hadn’t.
A day or two ago:
Provide evidence that he is lying. If you cannot, then as usual your argument is invalid.
They bombed this hospital on purpose. Went on for over a half hour.
PS: fuck off.
Thanks for providing strong evidence they bombed this hospital on purpose. I think you should follow the same suggestions I gave Greenwald: stop paying taxes as your money is buying weapons to bomb hospitals and kill civilians.
One missaimed bomb is an accident. Half an hour is deliberate…obvious to all but the willingly obtuse, like you.
You are right. 1) you were at that location, so you can easily confirm those reports.
2) The timeframe is the ultimate proof as to whether the act was deliberate.
You could be a successful lawyer. Do you know that?
You have some ugly traits in common with Samantha Powers. Except that she seems to be rather brilliant, so I don’t know what her excuse is for excusing the war crimes as she does. You, on the other hand, seem to be, to put it mildly, not so brilliant.
At any rate, is this evidence “strong” enough?
With that logic, supply me with evidence that russia killed civilians.
Allow me to humbly instruct you on military operations:
1) GPS does NOT. Again GPS does NOT provide PRECISE coordinates. Even a highly trained SF soldier is expected to use his intuition and training to find the precise location while using the GPS system. You might even miss the location by 50 meters with a GPS. In urban warfare that is a huge distance that could make the difference between life and death for thousands of civilians.
2) The Taliban or ISIL are well aware of the limitations of GPS. Hence why the Taliban always get into civilian areas, even into their private homes. The Taliban never made it a secret that they want many civilians to be killed by foreign forces and Afghan troops, so people like you can help the Taliban, not by pushing the US and others to find mechanism to reduce civilian casualties, but by accusing the US of being mass murderers even worst than the Taliban.
3) So, unless you have a throughout investigation, nobody really knows how the incident happened. MSF gave proofs that they gave their GPS data. It does not prove by any means the hospital was bombed on purpose.
Again, you strongly believe in your distorted argument. Then, why are you paying Mrs Powers? You bought that bomb that blew up the hospital and killed those people. If you really think your government is nothing more than a criminal organization, then stop financing it.
Sure thing, lenk. Instead of exposing the many crimes and perfidies of the U.S. government, Glenn should give it an inarguable excuse to shut him up with prison. Yeah, that’s a great idea!
I never understand why you get irritated when I call you a dumb ass.
You do not go to jail if you relinquish your passport and you stop paying taxes. He does not live in the US anyway. He can simply relinquish his passport and stop financing a terrorist state.
Dumb Ass
It does not prove by any means the hospital was bombed on purpose.
How do you know when to breath? Are you able to differentiate from your left from your right foot in order to know which one is needed next to propel you forward; or backward? How do you feed yourself? Do you know how to chew? Do you gag while attempting to take in fluids?
This part was supposed to be a blockquote: “It does not prove by any means the hospital was bombed on purpose.”
What you think about me is irrelevant. I am not taking your money to buy bombs. If you strongly believe in your argument, then it does not make sense to blame the government you are consistently financing. The best way to support your argument is to stop giving them your money because they use it to buy bomb to target civilians.
“1) GPS does NOT. Again GPS does NOT provide PRECISE coordinates.”
But a phone call from the coordinates that are being bombed is extremely precise, it’s pinpoint accuracy!
“The medical charity said its staff phoned military officials at NATO in Kabul and Washington during the morning attack, but bombs continued to rain down for nearly an hour.” http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/03/us-afghanistan-attack-idUSKCN0RW0HC20151003
In order to stop an active bombardment you can tell
1) the soldiers on the ground with direct line with the pilot or the ops center to ask them to stop
2) directly the operation center to stop.
MSF is not a military entity, so they would not have access to the operation center that is always in a top secret location. So, when they called Kabul or Washington, they only called a military “liaison” who in turn had to call the operation center, which will tell the pilot to stop. That 15-20 minutes window is not enough to prevent further casualties from highly powerful weapons.
As a Greenwald supporter you do not care about these procedures, which most international journalists know. You just want to accept whatever he says. So, if he suggests they bomb that hospital just to kill doctors and patients, so he must be right.
seems pointless, but for the fence-sitters in the audience who could possibly be swayed by lenk’s BS…
from the gps.gov web thing:
U.S. government is committed to providing GPS to the civilian community at the performance levels specified in the GPS Standard Positioning Service (SPS) Performance Standard. For example, the GPS signal in space will provide a “worst case” pseudorange accuracy of 7.8 meters at a 95% confidence level.
(note “worst case”, in the civilian market, we are using it to centimeters as it is…)
Is Military GPS More Accurate Than Civilian GPS?
The accuracy of the GPS signal in space is actually the same for both the civilian GPS service (SPS) and the military GPS service (PPS). However, SPS broadcasts on one frequency, while PPS uses two. This means military users can perform ionospheric correction, a technique that reduces radio degradation caused by the Earth’s atmosphere. With less degradation, PPS provides better accuracy than the basic SPS.
maybe the military is even more accurate than they let on, they wouldn’t bullshit us like that, would they ? ? ?
as an aside, please don’t get lost in the bushes when those such as rrheard, etc ably respond to lenk’s inane inhumanity, and get into grammar, etc fights…
‘i right better’n you…’ ‘no, i rites much mo’ betterer…’
*sheesh*
just the facts, ma’am…
also, the diffident statement of the military that ‘yeah, we mighta, kinda, sorta bombed the shit out of a terrorist-loving bunch of frogs, sorta by mistake, but, well, you know, c’est le mort…’, tells you ALL you need to know: THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE, and are only offering the thinnest of excuses, because they WANT people who aren’t quite as stupid as lenk, to know we did it on purpose…
(just don’t tell the sheeple…)
Provide evidence that russia bombed civilians
Why are you asking me that question? I do not know whether Russia bombings were responsible for civilian casualties. Can you direct me exactly where I accused Russia of targeting and killing civilians so I can correct it? Thank You.
Kitt made a comment, not an argument. If Kitt had made an argument, like “Warren is lying because his comment contradicts observed reality,” it would only be “invalid” if it contained an internal contradiction (which, in the case of the example argument, it does not). If it was valid but still not true (i.e. Warren was not lying despite the observed facts: they did not bomb the hospital on purpose), it would be an unsound argument but still a valid one. If you want to say Kitt’s later assertion that “they bombed this hospital on purpose” is false, you would have to provide your own evidence contradicting Kitt’s assertion, not the other way around. The evidence for Kitt’s assertion is in the article; the evidence for your position is nonexistent as far your comments have indicated. I welcome to the discussion your evidence that the U.S. did not get notified they were bombing a hospital and then continued for over thirty minutes to bomb it further while officially saying they would never do that. If you know better than, well, ALL of the witnesses, why would you be so cruel as to withhold that evidence from the world? Is it just because you’re stupid or is it because you have an evil agenda AND you’re stupid?
“Kitt made a comment, not an argument. If Kitt had made an argument, like “Warren is lying because his comment contradicts observed reality,” it would only be “invalid” if it contained an internal contradiction (which, in the case of the example argument, it does not). ”
Very poor defense. But an individual is allowed to have his own logic. His statement, comment, argument..however you wish to call it suggests the colonel is not saying the truth as his army purposely bombed a hospital packed with civilians. That is an accusation. To be fair, he has to provide evidence that the colonel is lying because he is the accuser.
“you want to say Kitt’s later assertion that “they bombed this hospital on purpose” is false, you would have to provide your own evidence contradicting Kitt’s assertion, not the other way around.”
Another very poor defense. I never stated his assertion was false. I asked him, as an accuser, to provide evidence that his assertion is true. With proper evidence, then his assertion becomes valid. However, he has not provided any evidence. Evidence = They knew it was a hospital, the pilot knew, or the SF soldier, the scout…knew, but they told the pilot to bomb that building anyway. You, Greenwald, Kitt, MSF do not even know what kind of combat system the pilot was using ( GPS, Laser, Visual recognition…) so none of you can answer that question.
“evidence that the U.S. did not get notified they were bombing a hospital and then continued for over thirty minutes to bomb it further while officially saying they would never do that”
I do not know. Hence, why I will neither state it was an accident nor they did purposely. As opposed to you or Kitt I would rather have an investigation before I start accusing others. I will not put a former rapist in jail simply because 100 women SAY he raped them. I need to know what happened first.
“you know better than, well, ALL of the witnesses, why would you be so cruel as to withhold that evidence from the world? Is it just because you’re stupid or is it because you have an evil agenda AND you’re stupid?”
By putting ALL in front of witnesses, then you are the stupid one. How can you have access to ALL the witnesses in a conflict zone that is still hot?
“An individual is allowed to have his own logic.”
Not really, but we’ll make an exception for you.
I stopped there by the way — you are a worthless adversary, and you make me feel petty by engaging with you, so I won’t do it any more. You’ll have to satisfy your lust for idiotic polemics by continuing to call Mona a “dumb ass” for knowing what she’s talking about. I truly pity you. Peace!
“are a worthless adversary, and you make me feel petty by engaging with you, so I won’t do it any more. ”
Feel free to ignore my comments. By the way, if you relinquish your US citizenship you pay ONE tax based on your income, estates, property…. That’s set. The ten year rule has been over seven years ago. Hence why I called you an ignorant.
You’re right, I stand corrected. I was ignorant, but never an ignorant. That’s just cruel to say (cruel to the English language, I mean). Imagine if you had corrected me politely in the beginning and not been a such a dick! Would have been easier for you. Dumbass.
Read your response to my first comment before you use the word “politely”.
“if you were a troll employed by the U.S., you would have some idea about the existence and use of commas in English sentence structure, so my guess is that you’re an Israeli troll — you lie, make no logical sense, are IGNORANT of the most basic facts of U.S. law, and can get no neuron to fire other than..”
Everything you stated was factually incorrect, yet you call me a “dumb ass”.
Kitt’s quote of the colonel stand on its own and cannot be “invalid.” It’s a direct quote you goose. The colonel is either lying or grossly wrong. The evidence of that is in Glenn’s column above.
With moderation having already become the corporate media’s new word for political censorship, the new dictionary definition of moderation has to be excess.
I expect we’ll soon hear of moderate serial killers, moderate drug barons, moderate rapists, moderate beheadings and moderate suicide bombers. They just kill, rape and pillage in moderation.
Collateral damage = sneppah tihS (like @ Gaza)
Bombing and droning creates more extremism, Powers says? How long has she known this and when will she inform her superiors?
Just last night, I saw a documentary on the Rwandan genocide that had Powers, who apparently was a journalist (I honestly had no idea) at that time, chastising the U.S. for inaction. Amazing to see one person in the journalist role playing humanitarian immediately switch upon political appointment to propagandist mouthpiece for the (using the popular term, I’m told, in the Middle East and South America) Great Satan. It seems like the old her would be ashamed at what she’s become. But then again, money and power heals all wounds.
Glenn and everyone –
I saw the headline about the hospital. Reading the article really sickened me. The loss of life so casually called “collateral damage.” I had not read about that wedding party in Yemen, but that also sickens me. This insanity needs to end.
Humanity — yes, including the good ol’ U. S. and its allies – better start recognizing we HAVE to stop killing each other. I shudder to think of the kind of future we’ll have if we don’t.
Doesn’t make the Russian bombing any better though, does it?
Did the Russians strike a hospital? Or a wedding party? Are you unable to appreciate the world-class hypocrisy coming from Obama or his neocon ambassador?
No, it doesn’t. Luckily, making the Russians look better has nothing to do with the article. You are undoubtedly the first of many that will come here today and be completely unable to get past “Russians are bad” moralizing to take a look in the mirror. Recognizing our own lies and moral failures has nothing to do with others. It’s between us and us (assuming you are in the U.S., which is a safe bet I think as the ‘exceptionalism’ just seeps through your response).
Wow you read a lot into one short sentence. Actually I live in Europe, and I recognize moral failings of the U.S. But screwing up in Afghanistan doesn’t take away the right to criticize what appears to be Russian carpet bombing in Syria (to JCDavis – yes, probably; though you won’t read that here).
By the way the ‘z’ in ‘criticize’ is pesky Apple spell check and I can’t be bothered to change the settings!
Apologies for the mistaken inference. No one is excusing or taking away the right of anybody to criticize Russia. But, given the content and context of the war of Syria, it’s mere deflection on the part of Powers (and you). It’s vacuous moralizing. Who on Earth cares what the U.S. government thinks about Russian bombing? At this point, as a U.S. and British citizen, when I hear that the Russians are bombing people we’ve armed and supported, I think, simply, “Awesome, it’s about time.” There, I said it. And why you think you wouldn’t hear about the Russians bombing a hospital or wedding in Western media is beyond me. It’s exactly the opposite, and you have to go to RT or Al-jazeera to even get a hint of our governments’ crimes in, say, Ukraine or Yemen. We’re throwing stones at the glass walls of our house of hypocrisy, not chastising the Russians in the hope of some better future. The Russians and Assad win or ISIS does. And the U.S is on the wrong side of that battle. So, to answer your original question directly, the Russians bombings are better than U.S.-coalition bombings, yes, and certainly miles ahead of the Isrealis, who bomb Assad and support ISIS with medical care and other special favors. Russia would not be carpet-bombing Syria if the U.S. hadn’t created ISIS at Bagram. Why do you think the Iraqis are on Russia’s side? Why are the Kurds welcoming the Russians? Why did Assad request Russian intervention? Because Russia can help the Syrians, Iraqis, and Kurds keep the most backward and evil state in the world from winning control over their homelands. I’d say that makes Russia’s policy better than the West’s, which is the policy that created this situation in the first place! Not even a hard call. Putin is a murderous thief, but he’s a much better person, morally, than the President, a murderous thieving lying AQ ally (as proven by the chorus of complaints about the Russians…bombing Al-Nusra, U.S. allies (just ask General Betrayus) officially loyal to AQ). If you’re against Russia bombing Syria, work to get your own government to stop arming terrorists — pointing fingers at the Russians for trying to clean up our mess isn’t too compelling.
No, but it does sound an awful lot like hipocrisy
The Russians, like the Iranians, have been invited in by Syria, in case you didn’t know it. The US, UK, France, Turkey and the rest of the “international coalition” are mere gatecrashers. Obama’s, Kerry’s, and Samantha Goebbels’ current refrain: Lesley Gore’s “It’s my party, and I’ll cry if I want to”.
You’re right there – Assad and Putin are particularly close.
“The Russians, like the Iranians, have been invited in by Syria, in case you didn’t know it. The US, UK, France, Turkey and the rest of the “international coalition” are mere gatecrashers”
Is that what the Kurds told you? About the elders is Afghanistan? That is what they told you too?
Child, you are becoming hysterical again.
Lenk, ad: your second & third sentences — plain incoherent (“is”? + “they”?). Ad: #1:- I am writing from the Middle East, where I’ve long lived and have several Kurdish friends. What do you, by contrast, truly understand about anything in this part of the world? If you suppose it is mere Kurdish propaganda that Syria instigated and sanctified the Russians’ involvement in Syria, then I suggest you’re consumed by a delirium. Maybe a good idea? — get yourself an Atlas or a globe, figure out where’s Syria, where’s Afghanistan, and where’s ‘Kurdistan'; now look to where’s Russia [clue: in the general proximity]; then look to virtually the other side of the globe to find the USA; and now ask yourself what in fuck is America doing here in the Middle East — is it all about State #51, Israel, and $audi Arabia perchance? —– #MoronOnTheLoose!
I am in Irbil, Iraq. My name is Lenk Heide. Can you tell me where I can find your Kurdish friends who think the US, France, UK…should not be bombing Iraq?
Sorry, my Arabic is better than my English, so do you want me to write you in Arabic? It would be better for me and since you have long lived there, you probably speak and write the language. Right?
The discussion was specific to Syria, not Iraq — are you really such an arsehole that I now have to point that out? Frankly, I wish you would write everybody here @ The Intercept in Arabic — that might help alleviate a big problem in terms of your incontinent trash dumping. As for me, go for Turkish, and then see how I do.
Are you sure you are in the Middle East and you have a lot of Kurdish friends?
Because the Kurds from Syria have been asking from more US help. So, again did the Kurds from Syria tell you they did not want US help?
ENGLISH 101:
I do not brag about my English. However, if you wish to correct others because you believe that the language spoken is the ultimate proof of intellect, then just make sure your English is perfect. Otherwise, you look really stupid:
“figure out where’s Syria, where’s Afghanistan, and where’s ‘Kurdistan';”
Correction: Figure out where Syria is, where Afghanistan is, and where Kurdistan is.
“now look to where’s Russia”
Correction: Now look to where Russia is.
Moreover, your argument about geography is a perfect reflection of an ignorant individual. You are suggesting the legality, the morality or even the strategic interest of military operations should be based exclusively on the distance between the countries involved. You are so unenlightened that you are incapable of realizing how cretinous that argument is.
Take a map, search for Africa, then search for Liberia and ask yourself what the fuck so many US military doctors and nurses were doing there?
The answer, which obviously you would be incapable of knowing is that the US had a strategic interest in preventing Ebola from spreading.
You accuse the US and all those nations of being “gatecrashers” yet instead of providing evidence that all those Kurdish fighters who have publicly and privately asked for US help are just part of a huge propaganda scheme. Make sure you have a good argument backed by facts before you start your name calling campaign. Without factual statements, your insults are just a pure reflection of yourself.
Trying to unscramble your word salad umpteen times over in all the postings above in bona fide attempts to discover some sense in what you are trying to say is simply too tedious a struggle as to make it worthwhile. I note the absence here at The Intercept, of late, of any postings by Louise Cypher and have to wonder if, in truth, she has by now reincarnated in drag as “Lenk Heide” of Irbil — with, however, a commensurate loss in her erstwhile command of Oxonian English. —– Daha ileri gitmeyelim.
Your inability to understand what is written above ultimately places you among the most ignorant individuals here. You perfectly define your lack of intellect by admitting you cannot find the sense of it. Moreover, you validate my points that your arguments and accusations are worthless, ridiculous, and imbecilic as you consistently waste your time writing about me without providing a single evidence to back your statements regarding the US and Syria.
The conclusion: you are a dumb ass!
Anyone who claims that the US have any right to bomb other countries is a dick head. Frankly, I sincerely hope some arab dick head acquires soon a nuke and throw it right on the top of the white house, so the dickhead living there gets a grip of what collateral damage means.
Actually, his inability to understand the mass of tangled nonsense your posts consist of would be indicative of a working knowledge of the English language, as you seem to be a living collection of Babelfish translations.