Hillary Clinton twice this week has insisted, contrary to the facts, that former NSA contractor Edward Snowden could have accomplished his goals and avoided punishment if he’d raised his concerns through the proper channels.
Clinton first made that assertion at Tuesday night’s Democratic presidential debate, and again at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire on Friday.
“I firmly believe that he could have gone public and released the information about the collection of information on Americans under whistleblower protections, and he could have done it within the tradition in our country that shields people that come forth acting out of conscience to present information that they believe the public should have,” she said on Friday.
Snowden was asked about Clinton’s comments in an appearance, by videolink from Moscow, at a Bard College privacy symposium Friday afternoon.
Snowden said her statement was “false” and he decried “a lack of political courage.”
“Truth should matter in politics, and courage should matter in politics,” he said.
During Tuesday’s debate, Clinton said Snowden “could have been a whistleblower. He could have gotten all of the protections of being a whistleblower. He could have raised all the issues that he has raised. And I think there would have been a positive response to that.” (She also inaccurately claimed that the Snowden files had “fallen into a lot of the wrong hands.”)
But media outlets and advocates quickly noted that Snowden was not in fact entitled to whistleblower protections, which do not apply to contractors.
Snowden has also maintained that he did try going through established channels, to no avail. And the official response to his leaks strongly suggests that no one in his chain of command was interested in letting his concerns reach the public.
“Hilary Clinton is wrong and misinformed,” said Anna Myers, the executive director of the Government Accountability Project, in an email to The Intercept. “No NSA whistleblower had been listened to in 13 years of trying. It is disingenuous for any informed current, or past, public official dealing with such matters to assert that whistleblowers in national security had a way to safely report their concerns about illegal and overreaching surveillance through official channels.”
PolitiFact rated Clinton’s claim as “mostly false.”
Snowden on Friday noted that fellow NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake tried to go through channels, but wasn’t heard until he approached a reporter. “He used the traditional whistleblowing process,” Snowden said. And in the end “they prosecuted him for a number of years.”
Snowden had earlier tweeted that he was “sad to see Hillary repeat a false claim despite fact check. She could develop a reputation.”
Even so, Snowden said the fact that none of the candidates at the Democratic debate called him a traitor was a positive sign. “Many candidates wanted to prosecute me. But I would actually argue that [the debate was] an extraordinary leap forward in terms of recognition by the establishment that the actions of 2013 were not so harmful as originally claimed.”
Why not a word about Sanders and the fact that on debate night every poll including CNN running poll had Bernie winning by huge margins…The citizens of this country are waking up to the controlled corporate DNC and the repuke party. Sanders is the only one with the nuts and guts to speak out with truth…wish you would tell us where you stand….Sanders or Clinton.
Liar liar pantsuit on fire!
Stating the circumstance simply… Hillary Clinton is a contemptible Liar.
I heard today the CIA director had his private account hacked, HA HA HA!! Incredibly fucking hilarious. How could this insanity of govt get any worse? It’s obvious these fools in charge don’t know what the fuck their doing. Except spend such huge amounts of money that would even make god blush. How can any of these folks be taken seriously? At least I lived when the “dream” seemed real even if it wasn’t actually true.
Hey, TI, great job at making sure your readers and commenters can all get hacked and set up for things. Not like people didn’t try to warn you (to their own detriment) but hey. Who cares, right?
There is no opsec against a sufficiently invested nationstate especially when they have kids to do some of their dirty work and piggyback freely. They do so love the taste of blood — and they’ll make things up and plant evidence and disinformation until the cows come home. What, no cows? They’ll settle for any animal, warmblooded or not.
I’d say fire your web dev yet again but what’s the point? IT’s backed up all the way to Timbuktu.
I was a whistleblower. There is no, I repeat NO, access to the courts for whistleblowers, unless the laws have changed since my time in Government (1976-1997). The Government Accountability Project (GAP) can probably confirm this.
Without access to the courts, all whistleblower actions are handled in house and generally the affected agency investigates itself…never a good outcome for the whistleblower. If that doesn’t work, there is an entire Federal Agency that was ostensibly set up to help whistleblowers but, in fact, does exactly the opposite and works with the agencies to destroy the whistleblower. This agency is known as the Office of Special Counsel (OSC) and it rarely comes to the assistance of a whistleblower. This is why organizations such as GAP had to come into existence in the first place.
In my own case, I had to shoehorn my whistleblower actions into an Equal Opportunity Case. This is rarely possible and the course to get to court is not easy, but I know for a fact that it was successful in one case–mine.
Contrary to popular belief, whistle- blowers rarely get protection from any number of corporate or political actions against the blower. In a govt setting, the govt typically destroys the person’s life. According to a book by professor C. Fred Alford, the blower is faced with a dilemma of conscience; if I keep quiet, I can’t live with myself; if I tell my life gets destroyed. The rules are set up to protect w.-blowing not the w.-blower themselves. This is a fact. So if someone is told they’ll be protected, it is a falsehood, especially if it involves some aspect of the federal govt. Ed did what he had to and lost all he probably loved, and their really are no true protections for the blower. Just remember what happens to tattle tales at school, it’s no different for adults today.
I believe that all of our problems could be solved if:
– we implement some form of end-to-end gun control so that only government people can wear and use firearms
– we all wear condoms while in public places
– we all say something the very moment we see something
– we fight global worming to the bitter end
– we make daylight savings time permanent rather than just a half-year thing
– we elect Hillary US Prez
Go Hillary!!!! Go Clintons!!!!
Uh? What?
The posts lightly [edited] for clarity:
Ms. McLaughlin
If Snowden had done something else concerning only something else and just given that information to somebody else, things might be different. However, he alerted us to internal threats that I think had nothing to do with my own limited scope of self-interest. The alleged – it’s alleged unless Putin did it; then it’s a certainty – NSA lies to the Congress and the people couldn’t possibly in any way be a threat to our Truly Exceptional Democracy: a misinformed, misled public under surveillance is one of it’s greatest assets. Snowden, the Intercept, and RT threw it all under the bus.
Everything the NSA does is probably a violation of international laws. That is their job. I just made that up. Violating international law is not the job of anyone. Of course, I’m never going to wrap my head around the threat posed to our liberty by the national security state for obvious reasons.
Snowden did try to air his concerns internally, and got stymied (his wikipedia page alone has a litany of his complaints on this).
Of course, if you put someone in a maze, you have to assume there’s a minotaur lurking somewhere deep inside it. And, worse, we now know his leak might’ve leaked. I give you today’s revelation about John Brennan, who, as it turns out, was using an AOL account for his personal e-mail. And got hacked by some high school kids.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/oct/19/cia-director-john-brennan-email-hack-high-school-students
Isn’t that interesting? (I’d write a satire, but frankly, I can’t easily write something this ludicrous. But this serving of shady freud is tasty, isn’t it?)
Sanders disagreed with ole Hilary….why aren’t you pushing him like the rest of us progressives…
it’s not a “lack of political courage” that Clinton’s statements broadcast.
It’s naked unabashed allegiance to the totalitarian agenda.
She, like Bernie Sanders, like George Bush, like George Stephanopoulos and Bill Moyers, Dick Cheney and Barack Obama, are enemies of the 99%.
Let’s see them for what they are: murderous, two-faced sociopaths who serve the capitalist class.
Hillary sets a new standard for hypocrisy,state department mismanagement, recklessness and carelessness.
She calls Snowden a criminal when she, as the Secretary of State put state department correspondence on a personal server. Either she didn’t know that her personal server was less secure than the State Department’s or she knew and did it anyway. Either way you look at, this is worse than any thing Snowden did, because there is no telling whose “wrong hands” her emails could (and may) have fallen into. Additionally, how could her staff have allowed this to go on? Surely they knew of this, but if they didn’t, then this too is equally reckless. These are the people that Hillary trusts and relies upon!
Let’s assume that there was absolutely nothing in the emails that was detrimental to State Department security: it still remains as an incredibly egregious error in national security and state department management.
“Hilary Clinton is wrong and misinformed,” said Anna Myers, the executive director of the Government Accountability Project.”
She is wrong but certainly not misinformed. She knows Obama’s policies from the inside, and judging by her past history as Secretary of War… er, State, she likely encouraged prosecution of whistle blowers. Bernie doesn’t have to attack her character; she does a bang-up job of it herself.
Let’s see…
-“Hilary Clinton is wrong and misinformed,” said Anna Myers
-PolitiFact rated Clinton’s claim as “mostly false.”
-Snowden said her statement was “false” and he decried “a lack of political courage.”
To reiterate what I said in my blog regarding Hillary ‘What did Clinton mean…”Wrong Hands”?’ article (10/14/15), Everyone has to remember: Hillary and her husband are the biggest liars in history!
Why is anyone still listening to her?
Somebody give me a mirror. Do I actually exist?
-Snowden had earlier tweeted that he was “sad to see Hillary repeat a false claim despite fact check. She could develop a reputation.”
You’re wrong Eddy. She already has a reputation.
If only all the stupid women that call themselves ‘democrats’ can remember that truth counts on election day.
Hurry, hurry – Dunk the Hillary! 3 balls for a dollar! Don’t miss your chance before she takes up her new position working door-to-door sales for Electrolux. Hurry, hurry!
Whose balls? There aren’t many left.
Sanders has the nuts and the guts to take on ALL of the powers, government, corporations and the mass corporate media…give the guy some credit…no candidate has done that in the past…narry one.
Clinton’s comments about Snowden gaining whistleblower status reveal someone who’s so thoroughly entrenched in the Washington establishment and political status quo that there’s simply no escape. Does Hillary not keep up on current events? Does she not read a paper or access online content? Surely she knows what her old boss has been doing to those pesky tattlers. Maybe she doesn’t know, and that would be sad. In fact, I wonder what’s worse: Hillary knowing that whistleblowers are toast in todays fear-based political climate, but not acknowledging that fact or working towards improvement of the law; or, really not being aware of how and to whom the law is being applied, and choosing to remain willfully ignorant of how present law plays out in real life–how it affects those who are prosecuted.
Keep in mind that all of this is simply a cynical opportunity to appear tough on national defense or homeland security, and all at the expense of the truth–and sometimes the freedom–of people who have dedicated their lives to learning and revealing what our government is doing in our name.
There is really no reason whatsoever to think that Clinton will somehow treat whistleblowers any better than Obama has, and ample reason–her comments in this article, for a start–to anticipate that she may be even harder on whistleblowers than anyone previous if she wins in ’16.
Jenna. I just watched your interview on LipTV. You talk about “bad actors” in Europe, but they do not really exist to such an extent that they justify the installation of a surveillance state.
They are simply an albeit excellent excuse for governments that wish to move towards totalitarianism to take those steps unhindered, unopposed and unquestioned. You were asked if the threat is being “exaggerated” and you responded by saying you need more “facts” – the WHOLE WORLD is being spied upon and threatened by the USA because of something that happened 14 years ago. I have experienced FOUR IRA bombs in London and did not for one moment think of taking even a national level of surveillance and they were a threat for decades. WTF USA???
People will accept a certain level of control as they will also accept a certain level of “bad acting”, but they will not accept totalitarianism. There are several problems with this:
1. What is a “bad actor”?
2. Who gets to decide?
3. How are disagreements managed?
4. What are the mechanisms for review and policy reversal?
5. Who must pay the various costs?
6. At what point do the actions of those acting on behalf of the state make them “bad actors”
For 1. it seems it can be anyone seen as an “enemy” for any given reason.
For 2. it seems to be unelected persons within the military and intelligence agencies influenced by unknown parties.
For 3. it seems to be “behind the scenes” wrangling with no public debate
For 4. it seems to be none.
For 5. it seems to be the taxpayer directly through taxes or indirectly through profitable enterprises supported by their taxes.
For 6. it seems to be as soon as they commit to such a policy.
Your attitude that things “need to be discussed” is a cop out we hear continually from Americans. You need to nip this in the bud before it fully fruits – talking will do nothing. I actually believe it is too late, because you need to dismantle not only the mechanisms and tools, but also the ability of the various players to reintroduce it all as soon as restrictions end. 911 was a tragedy, but what America is doing RIGHT NOW is beyond insane and is putting the lives of the BILLIONS who reject it now or in the future when realisation dawns at terrible risk.
You seem a sweet girl. I know you are scared. Time for you and all Americans to get off the fence, because it is all of you that are at the greatest risk of being beyond the world being able to help you to be free again.
Put more simply, we are not scared of the “bad actors” or criminals – fuck them – we are scared of a power-hungry, debt-ridden, greedy and insane American government that believes it can lie and war and spy and terrorise its way to success.
And that is EXACTLY what we have right now.
Crystal clear Snowden should be pardoned. The US government stepped over a line they shouldn’t have. The just penalty for that is transparency which the brave Mr. Snowden offers. Hillary and the other candidates are not brave on this point, just political and would rather hide behind the wool as they pull hard to keep it covering your eyes.
https://thunderflat.wordpress.com/
I think its safe to say that Hillary Clinton will continue the illegal program of spying on every American.
Even my simple minded cousin knows that nothing said by an America Politician can be relied upon. He says, “The winner is always the biggest liar.” And such is the state of the electorate.
I have been following the treatment of whistle-blowers for some decades — roughly since the days when A. Ernest Fitzgerald and Dina Rasor were making news. It’s a given that even those who are entitled to whistle-blower protection are in for a very hard time. And, as pointed out, Edward Snowden is not entitled to such protection.
http://www.chris-winter.com/Erudition/Reviews/Politics/Nader_R/Whistle-Blowing.html
Potential Whistle blowers understand the program. Losing your career and being blackballed is the norm. Pretty much a death sentence for people past 40. If the information is sensitive enough you will spend years in a Federal Prison. Legal costs quickly wipe out your life savings and whatever pension you have is at risk. Or be Bradley Manninged. The US is at war and will likely be for decades. Government Whistle Blower Statutes are on the books. But relying on them for justice is a fools game.
Hypothetical but what would happen if like 50 or a hundred people all became whistleblowers in the same week? Chaos? A global clampdown? Be an interesting book idea?
What, Hillary Clinton said something that is untrue?!
Who would ever have expected *that* from *her*?
Ms. McLaughlin
If Snowden had limited his theft to files concerning the alleged violation of American civil liberties, he might have garnered more sympathy. However, he stole files which had nothing to do with the Fourth amendment. He also gave the documents to the Intercept which is nothing more than a branch of RT. The Intercept has used the cache for political reasons which extend well beyond the civil liberties of Americans.
“However, he stole files which had nothing to do with the Fourth amendment.”
Which files were those?
The alleged NSA tapping of Merkel’s phone just to name one – but plenty of other programs of NSA spying world-wide
Friends don’t let friends to NOT be spied on -NSA.
In his defense, he would have required taking a huge cache of documents to build the proof for mass surveillance. A few dozen obscure slides arguably would not have made an impact. I am no legal scholar but perhaps some of his documents reveal more than just a violation of the fourth amendment, but also violations of different domestic and international laws. This is the stuff they should hash out in a public trial. Every person I have asked, even the folks thinking he is wrong, believe he should be given a fair trial. A fair trial means allowing him to use a public interest defense. Why should a court deny him the opportunity to explain WHY he did what he did? Snowden want to come back. He and his lawyers, along with the public – his haters and lovers – want to see him face a fair trial. Only Hillary and her cronies in government want to shut him up.
“…..I am no legal scholar but perhaps some of his documents reveal more than just a violation of the fourth amendment, but also violations of different domestic and international laws……”
You make some good points Ed, but everything the NSA does is probably a violation of international laws. That is their job. A spy agency spies. The CIA, NSA etc. violate international laws by infiltrating governments, private businesses (with government contracts), terrorist organizations etc by any means available. They want to know what the cutting edge of technology is bringing the world. Of course, a public trial is never going to happen when national security is involved for obvious reasons.
Thanks.
You must look real funny walking around with your head stuffed so far up your own arse. Take our hand and we will lead you back to the land of the free. Pride comes before a fall and America is very, very proud…
You have likely questioned authority your whole life. Why stop now?
Don’t fall into the trap of treating them differently. CraigSummers makes a good point: Snowden did something illegal. He won’t likely be pardoned or hailed as a savior to the average Joe. He did more than just tell us about the domestic spying…
Your use of the words “head stuffed so far up your own arse” tells me that you have a blind spot for questioning your own beliefs.
You have likely kissed arse and behaved in fear of consequence your whole life. You’re not stopping now, it probably pays your mortgage. I grewe up with guys smarter and more arse-kissy than you: the first wave of programmers, Cambridge mathematicians, top physicians, politicians, TV people, and rich kids and I fear none of them or their games as I know they are naked monkeys like me.
Snowden has done a truly remarkable thing and for you to challenge that shows that you are my enemy and the enemy of all good people.
I am disabled. Before “questioning authority”, I have been a financial risk auditor, a quality systems project manager, and a teacher. Real Che Guevara stuff.
Now I am disabled, I was trying to be a writer, writing a fantasy novel about a secret war of lies and betrayal between the Olympian Gods for control of all the Heaven, Earth and the Afterlife (hence my obsession with Zeus), but I have become rather distracted by the terrible events unfolding mirroring my writing. As we say in England here regarding fantasy: There is nowt queer as folk.
Nice autobiography but not much of an argument.
Thanks.
“in England here”? I thought you were in Thailand?
good job jenna mclaughlin. right on ed snowden, bard college (my grandfather’s alma mater).
???
Clinton indictable now : http://nypost.com/2015/09/27/yes-hillary-clinton-broke-the-law/
Menu of statutes she’s violated : http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/01/breaking-hillary-intentionally-originated-and-distributed-highly-classified-information/
Hillary guilty of perjury. http://www.ijreview.com/2015/09/432612-new-email-discovery-suggests-hillary-clinton-may-lied-oath/?_ga=1.194944877.1914091764.1443701355
List of indictable offenses explained : http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/21/eight-laws-hillary-clinton-could-be-indicted-for-breaking/
Clinton criminal defense not likely to be cogent : http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423340/clinton-e-mail-scandal-a-laughable-defense
What’s it matter what she said? Obama said he was for transparency/whistleblowers, etc. Like others, she’ll say whatever it takes to be elected by her party. After they’re elected what they “said” is’ a fart in the wind – and you, et al will write more meaningless articles.
The Real Problem is the walking dead –AKA American Electorate.
Sorry, but a fart in the wind has more substance.
And no need to paint all voters with the same brush.
He’s right, the American people have allowed themselves to become meaningless in the world’s “greatest democracy”. You have an aversion to anything “un-American” and “leftist” and glory in your military, which has done nothing brave or majestic in its pathetic history. It delayed for too long in WWI and nearly got bombed out of play before it even started in WWII, turning the rather backward Soviet Union into a terrified nuclear enemy. They failed in Korea and got knocked out in Vietnam. They failed to do the right job in the first Iraq war and then needlessly destroyed it in the second, totally destabilising the region. Yet even at college football games you beat their drum and salute their flyovers then cough up trillions to buy them toys with which to engage in imperialistic bullying on behalf of corporations that in turn rob you down the mall and take jobs overseas. And now they will send you to die in their war now your money has all gone. You are the most blinkered, idiotic people on Earth.
Tell us how you really feel, Zeus.
Doing it for the good folk that can’t.
Americans pay their taxes, sit back and let a group of maniacs build a cage around the world, then bicker about Fox News or CNN, or Hillary or Trump, or whether 911 was an insider job, or that half-black is better than half-white.
Bodhi is a holy word, I hope you understand the username you gave yourself and are not just using it for fashion. We just kicked out our corrupt government where I live without any major problem, I bet you can’t do that as easily as we did.
Snowden is nuts to come back under any circumstances short of a full presidential pardon. Put another way, he should perfect his Russian and settle down to finish out his life in freedom (irony of ironies) without facing a show trial conducted by a government-sponsored kangaroo court. The prevailing law is medieval and unsuited to a civilized nation.
The american cesspool is anything but civilized.
#JillStein2016
Apparently Hillary is genuinely worried about the possibility that Bernie Sanders will snatch the democrat nomination, for now she has started developing her second carrier: as a comedienne. Just a week ago, she was on Saturday Night Live. Now she is branching out into political satire. Pretty funny, really, suggesting that any whistle blower in the US would receive anything aside from a jail sentence. Can anyone name a single whistle blower who has been praised by the Obama team?
Mrs. Clinton continues to document her unfitness for the presidency, and yet it is likely she will earn the nomination of her branch of the Party. From the slate of seekers for the other branch’s nomination, a similar conclusion emerges: Nobody who is likely to represent either branch will change the failed course of action of our current and immediate past administrations. So, given the obvious unsuitability of these clowns, why doesn’t the electorate wise up and vote for third party candidates? For the simple reason that the Party candidates are in fact representative of the American electorate.
Reason #328 why I will never cast a vote for former Sec. of State Hillary Clinton. She can’t even get her facts straight rendering her propaganda plausible. Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows that Mr. Snowden would have had his revelations either black holed or buried if he’d turned them over to Congress. The Intelligence Committee was well aware of what was going on and any member, including my cowardly Sen. Wyden, could have employed the protections of the “speech and debate” clause in the US constitution, blown the whistle loud and clear, and taken their chances with impeachment or legal prosecution. But not a one of them did. So somebody please explain to me which mythical member of Congress was a) going to believe Snowden assuming he did go to Congress, or b) would have publicized his revelations or stick their neck jeopardizing their “career” by reading choice bits into the Congressional record?
And if anyone thinks the internal “whistleblower” protections would have protected Mr. Snowden if he’d pushed as hard as he personally knew how under internal CIA, DIA (or whatever alphabet agency’s internal IG he could have theoretically approached) procedures, somebody please cite to one single solitary example in the last 50 years where someone in the “intelligence” or “military” community has actually been “protected” by those laws with regard to any disclosures. I’ll wait. There is a long demonstrable track record of precisely the opposite happening to whistleblowers.
And finally, former Sec. of State Hillary Clinton knows full well that the information liberated by Mr. Snowden did not fall into the “wrong hands” unless by “wrong hands” she means the hands of the US public/citizens and the world.
Sen. Bernie Sanders is far from a perfect candidate. But he’s about as close to an honest principled politician running for POTUS as we’ve seen in 100 years in this nation. Now anyone can always make the argument that Mrs. Clinton would be objectively better than any GOP clown running for the office of POTUS today. And I’d likely agree with you–at the margins (which I’ll concede affects lives).
But if you honestly believe a President Hillary Clinton will change the bipartisan path of consensus on any of the big issues from trade, to foreign policy, to Israel, to climate change, to criminal justice reform, to the “war on drugs”, to SS, to universal single payer health insurance, to banking reform . . . , all I can say is when none of that happens in the 4 or 8 years of a Clinton presidency, there are going to be an infinite number of actual progressives boxing your ears and pointing out in vivid detail each and every documentable example of “I told you so.” And this nation will be no better off thanks to that short term “lesser of evils”, “don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”, I’d rather have a thimble full of scraps than fighting for an actual loaf of bread thinking and voting. Logically and morally incoherent thinking and voting is never going to turn this nation around and help it evolve. Once you’ve accepted that “this is good as our system gets” or settle for “this is the choices we have” instead of fighting to expand the choices then the TPTB have you exactly in the race to the bottom trap they want you to be in.
Hear hear!
Bernie sanders may be imperfect but Hillary is fraud. Vote Bernie!
Unfortunately Bernie is like a snake. He speak with forked tongue. One of those tongues says Snowden should be prosecuted (Jan 6, 2014 “…there is no debate that Mr. Snowden violated an oath and committed a crime…“I think there should be a penalty to that,”), and the other tongue says he should be pardoned (Snowden should be spared a long prison sentence or “permanent exile”).
I’m sorry to debunk you Jay, but Bernie Sanders is just the NSA status quo, nothing will change until there is a REAL ‘Weekend at Bernies’!
When it comes to Bernie and Hillary, one is a suspected LIAR and the other is convicted.
Don’t even get me started on the Republican mound of bullshit running for president (all of em).
But you have to start somewhere.
VOTE INDEPENDENT FOR PRESIDENT AND ALL CONGRESSIONAL RACES!
The only way to start with a clean sheet.
Bernie is a fake. Sanders is the person who protected the Federal Reserve by betraying the Audit the Fed Bill…..Bernie protected Bush from Impeachment that Vermonter’s overwhelmingly supported….
Bernie wants to continue the Drone Assassination Program meaning that Bernie wants to be an assassin like Obama Bin Bush.
Bernie supports terrorists through his support of ISIS demonstrated by his saying that the Saudi’s should stop ISIS. Bernie the Saudi’s are behind ISIS in league with your racist Israeli friends and the CIA.
Bernie has no real economic program, just candy slogans to get the left herded again as Obama did, but no plan on how he is going to pay for it. The rich are not that rich….and note that Bernie never attacks Soros or Bloomberg and other left wing billionaires. Bernie had to be pressured by Warren to support Glass-Steagal.
If you want to raise wages then we need to return to Parity of raw material production, particularly agriculture, such that the real producers of wealth can actually make a fair profit. This is the only proven way to best distribute wealth, by recognizing wealth production must not be stolen from those who produce.
read Fred Lundgren’s Nature of Wealth
Well said, MtotheC.
Which basically leaves progressives no where to go within the “Democratic” Party.
@ MtotheC
Look I caveated Sen. Bernie Sanders as far from perfect, but not on the basis of your ridiculous critique.
So according to Ron Paul supporters Bernie tanked the Audit the Fed Bill? Okay but not accurate.
So while Bernie Sanders was in the House of Representatives he somehow single handedly tanked a realistic impeachment movement against Pres. Bush? Ugh, frankly, that’s just silly.
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/08/nation/na-impeach8
As far as the above goes, I’d agree Sen. Sanders is wrong to agree that the drone assassination program has a place in our foreign policy. Hopefully if elected he can be pressured to change his position.
Sen. Sanders “supports” terrorists is just a silly lie. But I’d agree somebody other than the US should be stopping ISIS rather than America. And even though America has moral and practical accountability in both its support and arguable creation through its policies of ISIS, that is precisely why America is in no position to have the moral authority to combat it–with or without anyone’s support of the Saudi’s (who I’d argue are equally if not primarily responsible for ISIS’s continued viability).
I am no friend of the government of the State of Israel or the CIA. You only need to look at my comment history to discovery those facts.
As far as having an “economic program” of course he does, it’s imperfect, but it is honest and a significant improvement over every other candidates. You should educate yourself on his policies as a function of his career as a legislator in both House and Senate, and his policy positions as a candidate for POTUS. I won’t do your work for you in that regard.
So what? He doesn’t attack lots of rich people because the problem isn’t in and of itself that people have the capacity to become rich, but whether those that help them get rich get a fair share, the consequences of the methods employed in getting rich (and yes Soros and Bloomberg could rightly be criticized but certainly aren’t the most problematic in this sense compared to many others in many other industries from hedge funds to banking to fossil fuel exploitation to manufacturing).
And as far as why in 1999 he opposed reinstatement of GS, was because of the specifics of the bill before him that he thought benefitted big banks overall. His opposition to Wall Street and the banking industry is longstanding and well established.
https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10154277974087908/
Oooh is this that ‘forum sliding’ thing I heard about?!
I distinctly smell the oder of mendacity Hilldog
Hillary… Lying???? Well I never
I wonder what meds Hillary is on?
Some awesome kush.
How many people have any courage anymore, lion? Who can afford to stream Kate Perry without it being taken as a political statement given the state of surveillance on the web? “Roar”, “Prism”? All sounds like some sort of dissidental plot. Everything can and will be taken out of context, won’t it?
We need more (and better) examples of what actual political courage is. And then we need to figure out how in the world any political courage can matter given, at the end of the day, the ability to do things is basically limited by the majority.
Incidentally, people utter all sorts of nonsense in these comments sections. If you utter nonsense as well, people think you’re saying something meaningful even if you’re not, and they’ll find ways to make it look nefarious to fit their world views or further their plots. What a crazy world we live in. My friend Daria sends out deepest regrets for going down that road, a while back. What a sick, sad world we live in, layer cake.
No comment needed:
Federal Whistleblower Investigator Fired After Blowing the Whistle on His Own Agency
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Federal-Whistleblower-Investigator-Fired-After-Blowing-the-Whistle-on-His-Own-Agency-332240782.html
I read that story when it first broke. It’s a shame.
Questioning authority in the Government brands you as a threat subject to the “Insider Threat Program.” Any resistance tags you for reprisal. This program has remove the Civil from Civil Servant and left only servants of government power. Those that resist must be punished and/or removed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-new-paranoia-a-government-afraid-of-itself/2013/08/15/1f3db594-038a-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html
Yes but is your No comment needed: in fact a comment because… we really need to see how this plays out before passing judgement, although I tend to side with those that feel the “whistleblower” protections act is just bullshit given it’s very very poor history.
Hay, who’s hacking the Mob’s whack story on Trump in the WaPo? Is Bezos just juking us for more ad mobbed up ads than he can shake off a stick up? I’m accustomed to them cutting out my cracks, but refusing to give up the story content? Why even pay for the hit if you won’t let them pull it off, Little Nicky?!
OK, it could be Putin putting in a call for his main man, The Donald. Where to put all his stolen Petrobucks…
I’m not sure why Politifact monitors whether statements made by politicians are true or false; only a few pedants care either way. Instead, Politifact should measure how convincing the politician sounds and whether their claim advances their agenda. By those measures, Hillary Clinton’s statements are impeccable.
Remember how you claimed to have cleared Italy of the Mafia, but when Mori told you they had managed to remaster the fascist election cycles in Sicily you said it was time for Mori to lay off the crime shitck?
Pepinna di Gangi says, Hay. There’s a stack of fifties in there!
I wish I had a stack of fifties. Or hundreds. Or a stack of any money. I’m sure a lot of us do these days.
Thank god I’m not the type of person to commit acts that are criminal, or consort with criminals — But I do still wish I had some cash. Probably should be careful saying those sorts of things these days. I’m not looking for free deposits. I don’t have a bank account, and that’s probably for the best. I also don’t believe in bitcoin or electronic currency. Bits bytes and boops, bloop.
It’s a bluff – Hillary Clinton is the source of the Drone leaks and is in denial over her love for our courageous Ed. And fair play, Hils, we love him too!
Hillary Rotten Clinton is among the most odious specimens of US politician, and that’s one hell of an achievement. Even so, like GW Bush and Barack Obama, Clinton is merely a symptom rather than the problem itself.
Americans need to WAKE UP and realize that voting will change nothing. The system has failed. Any vote for a Republican or Democratic candidate is a vote for the Deep State and the continuation of the status quo.
To see the agenda of the US political establishment, one need only look at all the issues on which mainstream Republicans and Democrats substantially agree. How many candidates want to eliminate the Department of Fatherland Security? How many want to end drug prohibition? How about ending perpetual war for profit? Prosecuting CIA torturers? Giving Ed Snowden a full pardon (and a medal, for that matter)? Ending US support of the fascist, ethno-supremacist, lebensraum state of Israel? How about restoring the Bill of Rights and drastically shrinking the size of the federal government back to its constitutional limits?
All the partisan bickering about gay marriage, abortion, etc., is meant for public consumption. The more the voting herds are focused on these wedge issues, the less attention is paid to the real agenda of the political-corporate class and its enforcement apparatus.
Weeeeee are the sheeeeeeep and weeeeeee are asleeeeeeeeep
O… just pencil in Donnad and go back to sleep. You’re keepin me up… damn it
Being an Army Vet and a whistleblower; I can tell you the whistleblower so called protection is nothing but words to hide behind. I gave been discredited, defamed and blacklisted. I am Targeted every day; stalked, bullied, harassed, workmobbed, civil and constitutional rights violated.
This is what happens to us in the United States who expose corporate and government violations and corruption.
There is no whistleblower protection
“…the tradition in our country that shields people that come forth acting out of conscience to present information that they believe the public should have…”
Exactly, like we saw Chelsea Manning being shielded in solitary confinement…?
It is significant that were it not for the Guardian and The Intercept keeping the public comprehensively informed, Ms. Clinton would stand as an authority on that of which she speaks. Good work folks. You’re making a big difference. The free world power structure, and especially the U.S., confronts a different public reality today than it did two or three years ago.
What?The Graun loves the hellbitch,a sign of its meltdown into Zionism is cuddly.
Thanks for calling out Madame BS., in this report. Snowden deserves so much better than her snarling.
Clinton laughing after Bernie
She’s pure evil.
I believe with every part of my being that Hillary will be the most dangerous person on the planet if she were to be President. We would never hear the truth from her, never. Amazingly, she talks about the illegal acts of others as if her actions of late were lawful.
Tramp! Yes, Hillary that is you I’m speaking of!
The Epitome of FALLACIOUS======hillary-clinton and any other corrupt ziomasonsatanist puppet desguised as “democratic in the land of the free”” while these subvert the constitutional statutes of the rule of law domestically and abrad.
Funny how Hilary’s also admitted improperly storing and transmitting secret information. She hasn’t noticed the irony it seems.
Political forgetfulness makes politicians feel better about themselves.