Whistleblowers are always accused of helping America’s enemies (top Nixon aides accused Daniel Ellsberg of being a Soviet spy and causing the deaths of Americans with his leak); it’s just the tactical playbook that’s automatically used. So it’s of course unsurprising that ever since Edward Snowden’s whistleblowing enabled newspapers around the world to report on secretly implemented programs of mass surveillance, he has been accused by “officials” and their various media allies of Helping The Terrorists™.
Still, I was a bit surprised just by how quickly and blatantly — how shamelessly — some of them jumped to exploit the emotions prompted by the carnage in France to blame Snowden: doing so literally as the bodies still lay on the streets of Paris. At first, the tawdry exploiters were the likes of crazed ex-intelligence officials (former CIA chief James Woolsey, who once said Snowden “should be hanged by his neck until he is dead” and now has deep ties to private NSA contractors, along with Iran–obsessed Robert Baer); former Bush/Cheney apparatchiks (ex-White House spokesperson and current Fox personality Dana Perino); right-wing polemicists fired from BuzzFeed for plagiarism; and obscure Fox News comedians (Perino’s co-host). So it was worth ignoring save for the occasional Twitter retort.
But now we’ve entered the inevitable “U.S. Officials Say” stage of the “reporting” on the Paris attack — i.e., journalists mindlessly and uncritically repeat whatever U.S. officials whisper in their ear about what happened. So now credible news sites are regurgitating the claim that the Paris Terrorists were enabled by Snowden leaks — based on no evidence or specific proof of any kind, needless to say, but just the unverified, obviously self-serving assertions of government officials. But much of the U.S. media loves to repeat rather than scrutinize what government officials tell them to say. So now this accusation has become widespread and is thus worth examining with just some of the actual evidence.
One key premise here seems to be that prior to the Snowden reporting, The Terrorists helpfully and stupidly used telephones and unencrypted emails to plot, so Western governments were able to track their plotting and disrupt at least large-scale attacks. That would come as a massive surprise to the victims of the attacks of 2002 in Bali, 2004 in Madrid, 2005 in London, 2008 in Mumbai, and April 2013 at the Boston Marathon. How did the multiple perpetrators of those well-coordinated attacks — all of which were carried out prior to Snowden’s June 2013 revelations — hide their communications from detection?
This is a glaring case where propagandists can’t keep their stories straight. The implicit premise of this accusation is that The Terrorists didn’t know to avoid telephones or how to use effective encryption until Snowden came along and told them. Yet we’ve been warned for years and years before Snowden that The Terrorists are so diabolical and sophisticated that they engage in all sorts of complex techniques to evade electronic surveillance.
By itself, the glorious mythology of How the U.S. Tracked Osama bin Laden should make anyone embarrassed to make these claims. After all, the central premise of that storyline is that bin Laden only used trusted couriers to communicate because al Qaeda knew for decades to avoid electronic means of communication because the U.S. and others could spy on those communications. Remember all that? Zero Dark Thirty and the “harsh but effective” interrogation of bin Laden’s “official messenger”?
Any terrorist capable of tying his own shoe — let alone carrying out a significant attack — has known for decades that speaking on open telephone and internet lines was to be avoided due to U.S. surveillance. As one Twitter commentator put it yesterday when mocking this new It’s-Snowden’s-Fault game: “Dude, the drug dealers from the Wire knew not to use cell phones.”
The Snowden revelations weren’t significant because they told The Terrorists their communications were being monitored; everyone — especially The Terrorists — has known that forever. The revelations were significant because they told the world that the NSA and its allies were collecting everyone else’s internet communications and activities.
The evidence proving this — that The Terrorists have been successfully using sophisticated encryption and other surveillance-avoidance methods for many years prior to Snowden — is so overwhelming that nobody should be willing to claim otherwise with a straight face. As but one of countless examples, here’s a USA Today article from February 2001 — more than 12 years before anyone knew the name “Edward Snowden” — warning that al Qaeda was able to “outfox law enforcement” by hiding its communications behind sophisticated internet encryption:
The Christian Science Monitor similarly reported on February 1, 2001, that “the head of the U.S. National Security Agency has publicly complained that al Qaeda’s sophisticated use of the internet and encryption techniques have defied Western eavesdropping attempts.”
After 9/11, we were constantly told about how wily and advanced The Terrorists were when it came to hiding their communications from us. One scary graphic from the November 2001 issue of Network World laid it out this way:
All the way back in the mid-1990s, the Clinton administration exploited the fears prompted by Timothy McVeigh’s Oklahoma City attack to demand backdoor access to all internet communications. This is what then-FBI Director Louis Freeh told the Senate Judiciary Committee in July 1997 — almost 20 years ago:
The looming spectre of the widespread use of robust, virtually uncrackable encryption is one of the most difficult problems confronting law enforcement as the next century approaches. At stake are some of our most valuable and reliable investigative techniques, and the public safety of our citizens. We believe that unless a balanced approach to encryption is adopted that includes a viable key management infrastructure, the ability of law enforcement to investigate and sometimes prevent the most serious crimes and terrorism will be severely impaired. Our national security will also be jeopardized.
How dumb do they think people are to count on them forgetting all of this, and to believe now that The Terrorists only learned to avoid telephones and use encryption once Snowden came along? Ironically, the Snowden archive itself is full of documents from NSA and its British counterpart, GCHQ, expressing deep concern that they cannot penetrate the communications of Terrorists because of how sophisticated their surveillance-avoidance methods are (obviously, those documents pre-date Snowden’s public disclosures).
As but one example, the GCHQ files contain what the agency calls a “Jihadist Handbook” of security measures, dated 2003, that instructs terror operatives in the use of sophisticated surveillance-avoidance techniques that — as we noted when we first reported it — are very similar to what GCHQ still tells its own operatives to use:
In light of all this, how can “officials” and their media stenographers persist in trying to convince people of such a blatant, easily disproven falsehood: namely, that Terrorists learned to hide their communications from Snowden’s revelations? They do it because of how many benefits there are from swindling people to believe this.
To begin with, U.S officials are eager here to demonize far more than just Snowden. They want to demonize encryption generally as well as any companies that offer it. Indeed, as these media accounts show, they’ve been trying for two decades to equate the use of encryption — anything that keeps them out of people’s private online communications — with aiding and abetting The Terrorists. It’s not just Snowden but also their own long-time Surveillance State partners — particular Apple and Google — who are now being depicted as Terrorist Lovers for enabling people to have privacy on the internet through encryption products.
As I documented last November, the key tactic of American and British officials is to wage a P.R. war against Silicon Valley companies who offer encryption by accusing them of Helping The Terrorists. Last September, FBI Director James Comey actually said, “What concerns me about this is companies marketing something expressly to allow people to hold themselves beyond the law,” while the New York Times gave anonymity in that article to a security official to link the new iPhone 6 to terrorism. The head of GCHQ called Apple and Google “the command-and-control networks of choice for terrorists and criminals” as part of what the New York Times called “a campaign by intelligence services in Britain and the United States against pressure to rein in their digital surveillance after disclosures by the American former contractor Edward J. Snowden.”

Then there’s the blame-shifting benefit. For most major terror attacks, the perpetrators were either known to Western security agencies or they had ample reason to watch them. All three perpetrators of the Charlie Hebdo massacre “were known to French authorities,” as was the thwarted train attacker in July and at least one of the Paris attackers. These agencies receive billions and billions of dollars every year and radical powers, all in the name of surveilling Bad People and stopping attacks.
So when they fail in their ostensible duty, and people die because of that failure, it’s a natural instinct to blame others: Don’t look to us; it’s Snowden’s fault, or the fault of Apple, or the fault of journalists, or the fault of encryption designers, or anyone’s fault other than ours. If you’re a security agency after a successful Terror attack, you want everyone looking elsewhere, finding all sorts of culprits other than those responsible for stopping such attacks.
Above all, there’s the desperation to prevent people from asking how and why ISIS was able to spring up seemingly out of nowhere and be so powerful, able to blow up a Russian passenger plane, a market in Beirut, and the streets of Paris in a single week. That’s the one question Western officials are most desperate not to be asked, so directing people’s ire to Edward Snowden and Apple is beneficial in the extreme.
By destroying the Iraqi state and setting off reverberations across the region that, ultimately, led to a civil war in Syria, the 2003 invasion created the conditions in which a movement like ISIS could thrive. And, by turning public opinion in the United States and other Western countries against anything that even suggests a prolonged military involvement in the Middle East, the war effectively precluded the possibility of a large-scale multinational effort to smash the self-styled caliphate.
Then there’s the related question of how ISIS has become so well-armed and powerful. There are many causes, but a leading one is the role played by the U.S. and its “allies in the region” (i.e., Gulf tyrannies) in arming them, unwittingly or (in the case of its “allies in the region”) otherwise, by dumping weapons and money into the region with little regard to where they go (even U.S. officials openly acknowledge that their own allies have funded ISIS). But the U.S.’s own once-secret documents strongly suggest U.S. complicity as well, albeit inadvertent, in the rise of ISIS, as powerfully demonstrated by this extraordinary four-minute clip of Al Jazeera’s Mehdi Hasan with Gen. Michael Flynn, former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency:
Given all this, is there any mystery why “U.S. officials” and the military-intelligence regime, let alone Iraq War-advocating hacks like Jim Woolsey and Dana Perino, are desperate to shift blame away from themselves for ISIS and terror attacks and onto Edward Snowden, journalism about surveillance, or encryption-providing tech companies? Wouldn’t you if you were them? Imagine simultaneously devoting all your efforts to depicting ISIS as the Greatest and Most Evil Threat Ever, while knowing the vital role you played in its genesis and growth.
The clear, overwhelming evidence — compiled above — demonstrates how much deceit their blame-shifting accusations require. But the more important point of inquiry is to ask why they are so eager to ensure that everyone but themselves receives scrutiny for what is happening. The answer to that question is equally clear, and disturbing in the extreme.
Research: Margot Williams
Wasn’t it a mere 12 years ago that Americans were so loathe to utter the F-word that they were ordering Freedom Fries? Today, they are “Sharlie”, and they are positively maudlin over attacks on their French “brethren”. Like a school of fish, you can almost see their gills flash in the sun as they change course to mindlessly dart after their leaders in pursuit of…what? Do they even know?
Where do you see yourselves in five years?
There are seemingly two reasons, both pathological, why the US government is involved in regime change in the Middle East. Either they truly believe they will get it right in Syria this time – even after they destroyed Iraq and Libya as intact nations through deposing their leaders – a sign of doing the same unworkable thing over and over: in a word, insanity. Or they are purposely bringing down social order in Arab lands and creating legions of angry men who will eventually attack the “Homeland” – allowing them to bring about the end of democracy in the West, which they believe will be insisted upon by their own populations, for their “protection” – making them antisocial psychotics. It seems that the White House and Congress are both in dire need of psychiatric intervention. Instead, they’ll probably just hire Hillary, who thinks getting rid of Gaddafi was a good idea, simply because he had American blood on his hands. Crazy crazy crazy.
Thank you.
When will the media ever get back to HONEST reporting. I mean what we have today and for the past 52 years is a lot of lying journalism. I’d love to see just one accredited news outlet, (if you can find one), say that Osama Bin Laden died in December of 2001. Or that 9/11 was an inside job. Etc. I think that this will never happen because of the fact when someone has the guts to find the truth, the powers that be just remove them in any way possible. I mean look at the dead bodies surrounding the Clintons. Nobody even cares and the evil bitch is running for President. What a sick world we live in!!!!
And while the world’s attention is focused on France:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/17/israel-approves-454-new-settlement-homes-in-east-jerusalem.html
I think the apologists for NSA, GCHQ, et al, are missing an obvious point or two. Not only is HUMINT more effective than electronic surveillance, it does not trample on the constitutional rights of millions of innocent individuals. Sure, it’s more difficult their methods, as well as inherently dangerous. For example, we lost many valuable human assets as a direct result of the defection of Army SFC Glen Rohrer in August, 1965. However, those we lost were well aware of the dangers involved. NSA and their ilk want to take the lazy way out; to hell with our constitutional rights.
Patriotism is also the last refuge of the lazy Stasi man and woman, particularly those who use their own children.
ISIL, ISIS, Daesh wasn’t created by the USA in the last decade, they’we been around in various forms at least since the early 1800s, in various forms and shapes. Trying to lay all the blame on the USA may be a funny pastime for you, but for instance listening to general Flynn you get both sides of the story. And that is part of the greatness of the West. You’re bending things too hard. Just like Limbaugh.
France has now invoked article 42.7 of the European Charter. That’s an interesting play. That’s like the card of doom going down on the table. Perhaps a little too early, but now it’s in play. The lawyers will have to blow some dust off a lot of books.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/france-invokes-eu-article-427-what-does-it-mean
We cannot call leaving surveillance data already collected on the shelf ignored a ‘failure’ as that would be condoning the existence of the state?
Strange logic.
What; are you too stupid to use the reply button? Oh – you want to be at the top – you’re so pretty.
And apparently a Liberal, since you are completely baffled at the idea that the government may not be responsible for something.
Of course it was a big intelligence failure, but not because the state didn’t get its pre-crime algorithms right, but rather because they failed to make good use of the data that they already had. If anyone thinks that situation will be improved by investment in the smokescreen of mass dragnet surveillance they are in cloud-cuckoo land. The biggest problem for Europe is that it is basically a free society and doesn’t like bothering anyone too much, not even people they know are probably going to turn out to be terrorists. That’s the trade-off.
But in the case of Paris, it’s obvious they had already a good idea about certain characters. To think that retaining ordinary people’s browsing history is going to make the state any more proactive where it really matters is missing that mass surveillance is just making them complacent. Yes, they have masses and masses of data, but they don’t even do anything about the data that is already leaking blood.
They have abandoned targeted surveillance in preference to feet-up policing and database querying, quickly losing interest. Database querying as a substitute for actual intelligence analysis induces short-attention span, no joining of dots.
Which Snowden told us how such agencies collect. Then you go on to whinge about using “actual intelligence analysis”, of which you obviously no nothing about. You’re funny.
Dear GG and friends,
Please stop saying that Intelligence Agencies failed in regards to the Paris attacks, unless meant ironically.
If you really feel they failed to stop it; that it is their responsibility to stop such events, and should be blamed for all such events that are not prevented (“they must have missed something”, “something must have fell through the cracks”, “something should have been done”, etc.) – then you are supporting the notion that governments should be responsible for pre-crime.
You must realize that – unlike in the movies – not all terrorists are mouth-breathing, eye-twitching obvious. Much smarter people than anyone here believe that the only technical approach to pre-crime is to collect everything in bulk from everyone (UK style) and use algorithms to interrogate all of it to ident potential threats (data mining) and ultimately to include “bulk-CNE” methods, which ideally looks like a Microsoft virus protection app, that is mandatory within an OS, and that scans every file and action real-time for things that look like terrorist indicators and reports such events back to the mothership for further processing, including legally mandated backdoors so that FBI type folks can “do their jobs”.
So anyone who thinks these agencies ARE responsible for stopping the Paris attacks, and then in the same breath state that the NSA/GCHQ are overstepping … that’s wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
So stop saying they “failed” to prevent it, unless you agree to the totalitarian state that must follow in order to try and pre-crime these events. One or the other.
Great point Hosoi. Accepting the parameters of the “Intelligence Community” essentially reifies the parameters of the GWOT. It simultaneously deflects from the parameters of a free society, the proportionality of the crimes committed, and the etiology of its perpetuation.
Is that you, Socrates?
You are obviously missing the point. You admonish us idjiots for pointing out that with all the surveillance we currently experience, such surveillance didn’t stop this attack and it isn’t going to prevent future attacks. It’s the pro-surveillance folks who are saying ‘we can keep you safe if you waive your rights’.
Missing the point. Right. Ironic reply.
I don’t know about France, but conspiracy to commit mass murder is not “pre-crime.” It’s crime. There are other requirements besides just agreeing with someone to commit the murders. For example, there must be an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy (e.g., acquiring kalashnikov rifles for this purpose).
I highly suspect conspiracy is a crime in France, as well. If so, your argument misses the point. This is not a Minority Report scenario. If people are actually plotting to kill, they have committed a crime.
So your point is that since the crime of conspiracy exists (very hard to identify, harder to prosecute) that somehow precludes the approach of NSA/GCHQ’s massive ‘pre-crime’ predictive analytics to identify terrorists? You’re a little behind the curve friend.
This IS a Minority Report scenario, abstractly. The accepted terminology in law enforcement is “Predictive Policing”. I do not know what the Intelligence Community calls it at the bleeding edge, but I guess technically it is all more properly called “forecasting”.
I like the term ‘pre-crime’ though, because that is exactly what is being attempted. Not just regression analysis, but full on rocket-surgeon [] math baby, the good stuff!
The level of ‘pre-crime’ analytics that will go into filling all future SysAdmin positions at the NSA must be mind boggling.
For all the extensive (and useful) reiteration that terrorists knew about encryption way before Snowden, there is a much simpler angle to take to show up the anti-encryption lobby. Namely that you don’t need encryption (nor even PlayStation4) when you and your terrorist buddies all live within walking distance of each other on the same housing estate and car-share to get to the event. The biggest aid to organizing coordinated terrorist strikes is surely the humbled wristwatch. Let’s ban that insidious device.
Clearly to blame encryption when you’ve had a who’s who of likely terrorists for the past five years is a failure to blame massive intelligence incompetence.
It seems to me, that most people here are of the same narrow viewpoint and afraid to attribute blame where it belongs. We are all guilty of something and so are Edward Snowden, Glenn Greenwald and especially the Terrorist, whose attempting to play Judge and Executioner.
Yes, Snowden cause a conversation to start, so did many, many other socially aware individuals. The world is much more complicated and convoluted than many of posts on this response column. My firm belief is that in actuality we can only effect lasting change in ourselves and assist others if they accept the help. Governments can’t solve the problems that the world faces today, simply observe the greed and selfishness, that’s exemplified by so many rich and intellectual ones in society. Please continue to look for the true facts no colored by your own likes and dislikes.
rrheard and others expressing concern/frustration over recent commenting anomalies:
First Look Media Taps Top Technology and Product Executives to Join Growing Team
https://firstlook.org/2015/11/17/jeff_oconnell_dan_shearer/
Let’s hope that includes how commenters interface with the site, including published commenting rules with input from Greenwald clearly expressing the tenets of commenting that he supported during his many years writing at Unclaimed Territory and Salon.
“We agree 100 percent. Our comments system is not what it should be, and we’re working on finding a new one. We have great commenters and a great commenting community but the system is not terribly good. It’s a priority item for us to change.”
Peter Maass ~ Nemo_Est_Insula
Dec. 20 2014, 10:50 a.m.
..
(:^)-{-</: [#skatedude]
..
suave
Dec. 22 2014, 11:28 a.m.
Donger’s ‘Festivus’ Wish List..
THE // INTERCEPT – Mr. Bill Owen to remedy this archaic commentating functionality as of now.
Ms. Poitras – A job.
Mr. Greenwald – A link to your *archive in its entirety.
Mr. Scahill – An article.
Ms. Weinberger – Coffee?!
Ms. Winter – A pulitzer. (ht`bah)
Mr. Thompson – Soothing chap-stick for his ‘wasabi-encrusted’ lips.
Ms. Vargas Cooper – Apricot-danish from el Belwood Bakery Cafe. (summa cum laude #bruins)
Ms. Cora Currier & Mr. Morgan Marquis-Boire – **More please.
..
Safe Travels to all..
..
* http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.ca/2005/11/gop-fights-itself-on-illegal.html
** Leaked Files: German Spy Company Helped Bahrain Hack Arab Spring Protestors – 08/07/2014
..
A Titonwan Would Take A Flamethrower To This Place Production
@Pedinska
Let me excerpt parts of the full press release that highlight why this will NOT be the case.
Senior Vice President of Product and User Experience
technology platforms across all screens
media properties and services
social impact and transparency
from web to mobile to connected television
best-in-class user experiences for audiences
cultivate relationships with audiences
integrating with industry-leading advertising and analytics systems
curated content model
Blip.tv…Healogica…Wimba…World Wrestling Entertainment…MTV Networks
Name ONE French official who blamed the attacks on Snowden. You blame Western intelligence agencies for shifting blame. Specifically pointing fingers at French security services for failing to stop bad people they knew about. Can you name ONE of these French security offcials who blame Snowden?
2) Provide any evidence that the weapons used in Paris, Lebanon, Egypt came from the stockpiled provided by the US or any other states in the Gulf to rebels in Syria or the Iraqi army. That would back your argument that ISIL was able to do those acts thanks to weapons provided by the US in Syria. Maybe you know something we do not know, but no evidence has been presented to support that materials used in those attacks even came from Syria.
3) “why ISIS was able to spring up seemingly out of nowhere ….That’s the one question western officials are most desperate not be asked”
That question has been answered many times. Western powers have the capability to send ground troops to Syria and Iraq to dismantle ISIS. But what would be your reaction? You already insinuated that Obama was bombing ISIL just because they were Muslims. Would it be okay to send troops to stop ISIL? You seem concerned about their rapid growth, so how would you advise Western powers to stop them as the public including you is against the use of ground troops?
These are your words:
“THE FAKE TERROR THREAT USED TO JUSTIFY BOMBING SYRIA”
“The Obama administration needed propagandistic and legal rationale for bombing yet another predominantly Muslim country. While emotions over the ISIS beheading videos were high, they were not enough to sustain a lengthy new war.”
“But in terms of crazed irrationality, how far away from that false belief is the current fear on the part of Americans that there are ISIS sleeper cells “living in the United States”?”
Defend your words! Are you convinced that sleeper cells can only exist in France, Belgium, Germany…but not in America? More importantly, is the terror from Syria still fake?
to be read along with the considerable media blather about the Paris disaster;
By John Pilger
Source: Johnpilger.com
From Pol Pot to ISIS: “Anything that flies on everything that moves”
In transmitting President Richard Nixon’s orders for a “massive” bombing of Cambodia in 1969, Henry Kissinger said, “Anything that flies on everything that moves”. As Barack Obama wages his seventh war against the Muslim world since he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, and Francois Hollande promises a “merciless” attack on that ruined country, the orchestrated hysteria and lies make one almost nostalgic for Kissinger’s murderous honesty.
As a witness to the human consequences of aerial savagery – including the beheading of victims, their parts festooning trees and fields – I am not surprised by the disregard of memory and history, yet again. A telling example is the rise to power of Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge, who had much in common with today’s Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). They, too, were ruthless medievalists who began as a small sect. They, too, were the product of an American-made apocalypse, this time in Asia.
According to Pol Pot, his movement had consisted of “fewer than 5,000 poorly armed guerrillas uncertain about their strategy, tactics, loyalty and leaders”. Once Nixon’s and Kissinger’s B-52 bombers had gone to work as part of “Operation Menu”, the west’s ultimate demon could not believe his luck. The Americans dropped the equivalent of five Hiroshimas on rural Cambodia during 1969-73. They leveled village after village, returning to bomb the rubble and corpses. The craters left giant necklaces of carnage, still visible from the air. The terror was unimaginable. A former Khmer Rouge official described how the survivors “froze up and they would wander around mute for three or four days. Terrified and half-crazy, the people were ready to believe what they were told… That was what made it so easy for the Khmer Rouge to win the people over.” A Finnish Government Commission of Inquiry estimated that 600,000 Cambodians died in the ensuing civil war and described the bombing as the “first stage in a decade of genocide”. What Nixon and Kissinger began, Pol Pot, their beneficiary, completed. Under their bombs, the Khmer Rouge grew to a formidable army of 200,000.
ISIS has a similar past and present. By most scholarly measure, Bush and Blair’s invasion of Iraq in 2003 led to the deaths of at least 700,000 people – in a country that had no history of jihadism. The Kurds had done territorial and political deals; Sunni and Shia had class and sectarian differences, but they were at peace; intermarriage was common. Three years before the invasion, I drove the length of Iraq without fear. On the way I met people proud, above all, to be Iraqis, the heirs of a civilization that seemed, for them, a presence.
Bush and Blair blew all this to bits. Iraq is now a nest of jihadism. Al-Qaeda – like Pol Pot’s “jihadists” – seized the opportunity provided by the onslaught of ‘Shock and Awe’ and the civil war that followed. “Rebel” Syria offered even greater rewards, with CIA and Gulf state ratlines of weapons, logistics and money running through Turkey. The arrival of foreign recruits was inevitable. A former British ambassador, Oliver Miles, wrote, “The [Cameron] government seems to be following the example of Tony Blair, who ignored consistent advice from the Foreign Office, MI5 and MI6 that our Middle East policy – and in particular our Middle East wars – had been a principal driver in the recruitment of Muslims in Britain for terrorism here.”
ISIS is the progeny of those in Washington, London and Paris who, in conspiring to destroy Iraq, Syria and Libya, committed an epic crime against humanity. Like Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, ISIS are the mutations of a western state terror dispensed by a venal imperial elite undeterred by the consequences of actions taken at great remove in distance and culture. Their culpability is unmentionable in “our” societies, making accomplices of those who suppress this critical truth.
It is 23 years since a holocaust enveloped Iraq, immediately after the first Gulf War, when the US and Britain hijacked the United Nations Security Council and imposed punitive “sanctions” on the Iraqi population – ironically, reinforcing the domestic authority of Saddam Hussein. It was like a medieval siege. Almost everything that sustained a modern state was, in the jargon, “blocked” – from chlorine for making the water supply safe to school pencils, parts for X-ray machines, common painkillers and drugs to combat previously unknown cancers carried in the dust from the southern battlefields contaminated with Depleted Uranium. Just before Christmas 1999, the Department of Trade and Industry in London restricted the export of vaccines meant to protect Iraqi children against diphtheria and yellow fever. Kim Howells, parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Blair government, explained why. “The children’s vaccines”, he said, “were capable of being used in weapons of mass destruction”. The British Government could get away with such an outrage because media reporting of Iraq – much of it manipulated by the Foreign Office – blamed Saddam Hussein for everything.
Under a bogus “humanitarian” Oil for Food Programme, $100 was allotted for each Iraqi to live on for a year. This figure had to pay for the entire society’s infrastructure and essential services, such as power and water. “Imagine,” the UN Assistant Secretary General, Hans Von Sponeck, told me, “setting that pittance against the lack of clean water, and the fact that the majority of sick people cannot afford treatment, and the sheer trauma of getting from day to day, and you have a glimpse of the nightmare. And make no mistake, this is deliberate. I have not in the past wanted to use the word genocide, but now it is unavoidable.” Disgusted, Von Sponeck resigned as UN Humanitarian Co-ordinator in Iraq. His predecessor, Denis Halliday, an equally distinguished senior UN official, had also resigned. “I was instructed,” Halliday said, “to implement a policy that satisfies the definition of genocide: a deliberate policy that has effectively killed well over a million individuals, children and adults.”
A study by the United Nations Children’s Fund, Unicef, found that between 1991 and 1998, the height of the blockade, there were 500,000 “excess” deaths of Iraqi infants under the age of five. An American TV reporter put this to Madeleine Albright, US Ambassador to the United Nations, asking her, “Is the price worth it?” Albright replied, “We think the price is worth it.”
In 2007, the senior British official responsible for the sanctions, Carne Ross, known as “Mr. Iraq”, told a parliamentary selection committee, “[The US and UK governments] effectively denied the entire population a means to live.” When I interviewed Carne Ross three years later, he was consumed by regret and contrition. “I feel ashamed,” he said. He is today a rare truth-teller of how governments deceive and how a compliant media plays a critical role in disseminating and maintaining the deception. “We would feed [journalists] factoids of sanitised intelligence,” he said, “or we’d freeze them out.” Last year, a not untypical headline in the Guardian read: “Faced with the horror of Isis we must act.” The “we must act” is a ghost risen, a warning of the suppression of informed memory, facts, lessons learned and regrets or shame. The author of the article was Peter Hain, the former Foreign Office minister responsible for Iraq under Blair. In 1998, when Denis Halliday revealed the extent of the suffering in Iraq for which the Blair Government shared primary responsibility, Hain abused him on the BBC’s Newsnight as an “apologist for Saddam”. In 2003, Hain backed Blair’s invasion of stricken Iraq on the basis of transparent lies. At a subsequent Labour Party conference, he dismissed the invasion as a “fringe issue”.
Here was Hain demanding “air strikes, drones, military equipment and other support” for those “facing genocide” in Iraq and Syria. This will further “the imperative of a political solution”. The day Hain’s article appeared, Denis Halliday and Hans Von Sponeck happened to be in London and came to visit me. They were not shocked by the lethal hypocrisy of a politician, but lamented the enduring, almost inexplicable absence of intelligent diplomacy in negotiating a semblance of truce. Across the world, from Northern Ireland to Nepal, those regarding each other as terrorists and heretics have faced each other across a table. Why not now in Iraq and Syria? Instead, there is a vapid, almost sociopathic verboseness from Cameron, Hollande, Obama and their “coalition of the willing” as they prescribe more violence delivered from 30,000 feet on places where the blood of previous adventures never dried. They seem to relish their own violence and stupidityso much they want it to overthrow their one potentially valuable ally, the government in Syria.
This is nothing new, as the following leaked UK-US intelligence file illustrates:
“In order to facilitate the action of liberative [sic] forces… a special effort should be made to eliminate certain key individuals [and] to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria. CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals… a necessary degree of fear… frontier and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention… the CIA and SIS should use… capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension.”
That was written in 1957, although it could have been written yesterday. In the imperial world, nothing essentially changes. In 2013, the former French Foreign Minister Roland Dumas revealed that “two years before the Arab spring”, he was told in London that a war on Syria was planned. “I am going to tell you something,” he said in an interview with the French TV channel LPC, “I was in England two years before the violence in Syria on other business. I met top British officials, who confessed to me that they were preparing something in Syria… Britain was organising an invasion of rebels into Syria. They even asked me, although I was no longer Minister for Foreign Affairs, if I would like to participate… This operation goes way back. It was prepared, preconceived and planned.”
The only effective opponents of ISIS are accredited demons of the west – Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and now Russia. The obstacle is Turkey, an “ally” and a member of Nato, which has conspired with the CIA, MI6 and the Gulf medievalists to channel support to the Syrian “rebels”, including those now calling themselves ISIS. Supporting Turkey in its long-held ambition for regional dominance by overthrowing the Assad government beckons a major conventional war and the horrific dismemberment of the most ethnically diverse state in the Middle East.
A truce – however difficult to negotiate and achieve – is the only way out of this maze; otherwise, the atrocities in Paris and Beirut will be repeated. Together with a truce, the leading perpetrators and overseers of violence in the Middle East – the Americans and Europeans – must themselves “de-radicalise” and demonstrate a good faith to alienated Muslim communities everywhere, including those at home. There should be an immediate cessation of all shipments of war materials to Israel and recognition of the State of Palestine. The issue of Palestine is the region’s most festering open wound, and the oft-stated justification for the rise of Islamic extremism. Osama bin Laden made that clear. Palestine also offers hope. Give justice to the Palestinians and you begin to change the world around them.
More than 40 years ago, the Nixon-Kissinger bombing of Cambodia unleashed a torrent of suffering from which that country has never recovered. The same is true of the Blair-Bush crime in Iraq, and the Nato and “coalition” crimes in Libya and Syria. With impeccable timing, Henry Kissinger’s latest self-serving tome has been released with its satirical title, “World Order”. In one fawning review, Kissinger is described as a “key shaper of a world order that remained stable for a quarter of a century”. Tell that to the people of Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Chile, East Timor and all the other victims of his “statecraft”. Only when “we” recognise the war criminals in our midst and stop denying ourselves the truth will the blood begin to dry.
Follow John Pilger on twitter @johnpilger
It’s been too long since I’ve read Mr. Pilger. A voice in the wilderness. Thanks for sharing.
Don’t you long for the times when the word “war” had a fixed meaning. It was an awful, last resort that you ended as quickly as possible so that you could enjoy the benefits of peace, the normal state of affairs.
Now we need philosophers to determine whether a modern 21st century nation state, is at war, or not.
Sommes-nous en guerre ?
“Are we at war”
“Yes” says Etienne Balibar, we’ve always been at war. But do we recognize too late what type of war this is.
“No” says Bertrand Badie, our new adversary is not a state. We should not be using the tools of war to confront the failings of our social structures.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/16/9745932/paris-attack-terrorism-surveillance-cia-brennan
“At a Center for Strategic & International Studies talk today, CIA director John Brennan renewed one of the government’s favorite lies about spying: that mass surveillance has been successful in stopping a bunch of mysterious threats while it is simultaneously too ineffective to stop real attacks, because of privacy advocates and whistleblowers. Here’s what Brennan said:
In the past several years because of a number of unauthorized disclosures and a lot of hand wringing over the government’s role in the effort to try to uncover these terrorists there have been some policy and legal and other actions taken that make our ability collectively, internationally, to find these terrorists much more challenging. I do hope that this is going to be a wake up call, particularly in areas of Europe where I think there has been a misrepresentation of what the intelligence and security service is doing…
You’re probably going to hear this lie furiously repeated in the coming weeks and months as security hawks in the US and Europe march toward another ground war in Asia, and renew their calls for a radically strengthened surveillance state. Glenn Greenwald at The Intercept has thoroughly documented the genesis of this lie, but here’s the short version: the government can’t have it both ways on security. It can’t ask that companies and individuals strengthen their defenses against attacks while at the same time demanding companies like Apple and Google to sabotage their users by giving the government the means to break encryption.”
…
“Terrorism’s greatest threat is its ability to provoke us into harming ourselves through fear and haste. Don’t fall for lazy horror stories from people who want to destroy privacy on the internet for everyone.”
Most Americans do not yet understand the ways in which our communities (and individual citizens) have been impacted. The full truth is still not known to most Americans, in spite of Snowden’s able efforts. Better rein it in now. Ah, the secrets that are still being kept…
A Then I Smoked Two More Smoked Two Joints Production
I just heard Mr Hayden on NBC This Morning (or whatever the stupid show is called in the mornings for NBC) saying, Im paraphrasing, that Snowden released how we conduct surveillance on foreign enemies. He forgot to state that those methods were the same methods he was using on his bosses, US citizens. The stupid woman interviewing Hayden looked and sounded as if she was being targeted by ISIS herself? Asking if we would experience the same thing that happened in Paris? Wow!!!!!
Those responsible for empowering ISIL by invading Iraq under the pretext of the existence of WMD and ties to al Queda (while coveting Iraq’s oil) are now blaming Snowden. The single events that provided the greatest impulse for the creation of (first al Queda and then) ISIL were the invasions and occupations of sovereign Islamic States. Violence begets violence (which does not condone any of it).
There is still some common sense in France, even if it’s not in power.
Dominique de Villepin (The guy who inspired the naming of French fries as “Freedom Fries” in the US congress cafeteria, for his opposition to George Bush’s blunder in Iraq):
“A war is two states, and two armies that fight each other. Here we have fanatical groups, a mafia. They want to divide us, push our country towards a civil war by engaging in reprisals against members of the Muslim community.”
“These attacks are, for the most part linked to a history of interventions in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Libya and elsewhere, which have all put oil on the fire. Take a lesson from experience, things have only gotten worse over ten years, things are worse in Libya, in Afghanistan, in Iraq.”
Bush and Blair wouldn’t listen.
de Villepin – “The war on terrorism cannot be won”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6rp2VNpCA
The full radio interview of former French Prime Minister Dominique Villepin about how France should manage Paris attacks response from 28:30 to 50:00 min.
Strangely the last 3 minutes of the discussion are appointed to be the title of the interview on how he thinks the delegations teams of COP conference should be limited to small group.
http://www.rtl.fr/actu/politique/dominique-de-villepin-cette-cop-doit-se-tenir-mais-avec-des-delegations-limitees-7780520390
“Is it the diplomatic solution too late, how to end this war?” asks one of the journalists at 35:00
” in 2003, as a French secretary to the UNO in January. Seeing that USA have decided to go to war in Irak, i gathered the members of the Security Council on terrorism topic and proposed them to put it as the number one priority… and unify the international community. To deal with the spread, Amercans much prefered a military intervention instead of a pacific solution and things got worst. We are experiencing right now the very same turning point for the International community…!…France must get back to his historical position of mediation between all parts in the coalition and the countries of the region…i much prefer a pragmatic response mobilisation than a “total war”…At this very moment, we are experiencing a risk of an escalation of violence…If the solution will involve military troops on the ground, the soldiers should come from the countries of region…
Talk when he was French foreign secretary to the UNO against Iraq war
http://www.un.org/press/en/2003/sc7664.doc.htm
(scroll down to statements then search Villepin)
Snowden should return to the U.S. Public pressure on Obama will probably prevent prosecution, but if he goes to trial, he will be acquitted and treated like the hero he is.
I’m coming across some of this on the intertubes:
“If Islamophobia exists, it’s Islam’s fault. It’s time for Muslims to engage in some introspection.”
Let’s play a game, let’s revert that phrase to an earlier form:
“If anti-Semitism exists, it’s Judaism’s fault. It’s time for Jews to engage in some introspection.”
I just find American, and now, topically, French bigotry so funny. People cheer for the bombings of other countries and call for discrimination against other religions, while they at the same time demand that their countries take in no refugees fleeing the wars they want fueled.
From the article: “So it’s of course unsurprising that ever since Edward Snowden’s whistleblowing enabled newspapers around the world to report on secretly implemented programs of mass surveillance, he has been accused by “officials” and their various media allies of Helping The Terrorists™.”
It’s classic case of scapegoating. It’s that simple.
It’s a classic case of scapegoating. It’s that simple.
At least the far right and Marine Le Pen are happy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/europe/after-paris-attacks-a-darker-mood-toward-islam-emerges-in-france.html
Ever since the decline of France as a colonial empire, having given up occupying places such as Algeria, France has been on a course to face what it means to be French, to be secular. It was easier to pretend that they had achieved a secular state when most everyone was Christian. But as Muslims arrived from the former empire, the myth of secularism has broken down in the face of islamophobia and the reality that by “secular” the French government means “secular-Christian”.
From this scene of discrimination, where even something so simple as wearing a head scarf is banned, a small number of this disaffected minority, is acting on their opposition to France’s bigotry against them and Frances military adventures against Muslims in the Middle East.
And the French government’s response? Deal with the underlying social malaise? No, “merciless” war is the response (or as Cheney would say “It’s time to take the gloves off”). Now we’re talking state of emergency, changing the French constitution, more bombing in the Middle East, deporting Muslims, etc.
Think back to the civil rights era in America, there was Martin Luther King Jr, but there was also Malcolm X, there were the Black Panthers. There was a whole range of reactions to American bigotry, discrimination. Now America could use the violent reactions of some blacks as an excuse to pass more discriminatory laws, and attack…Africa I guess…or they could fix the underlying social issues, which were (and still are) racism at home against blacks and other minorities, and abroad against people in other countries, at the time, most notably against the Vietnamese. (The Americans having taken up the role of colonial ruler from France after the latter got defeated at Dien Bien Phu.)
Having trained to work in sales, Meignen says she had difficulty finding a job where she was allowed to wear a hijab. She worked for three years as a teaching assistant in a school, but was subjected to the “humiliating” obligation of baring her head. She was offered a job at a call centre, but could not wear a scarf there either. In 2009 she decided to give up the idea of work, but her brother suggested she become self-employed. This was possible, thanks to the introduction of simpler rules for going freelance. She invested her savings – about €1,000 ($1,300) – in launching the site. As she herself had difficulty finding hijabs she liked in shops, she decided to specialise in headscarves.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/03/france-muslim-women-home-working
That last paragraph should be scrunched:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/03/france-muslim-women-home-working
With friends like the Saudis…. John Kiriakou interview: http://goo.gl/0ULkml
That was great. Thanks for the link.
Bloody Saudis.
Yes that was good… smart guy. Michael Scheuer has much to say along same lines.
Here AIC, you might find this interesting, an article by Daniel Lazar:
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/11/the-secret-saudi-ties-to-terrorism/
Also, I found this article by MS Doran instructive, though I am not much of a fan. Doran strikes me as a really smart guy who sold his soul to AIPAC. Still:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/saudi-arabia/2004-01-01/saudi-paradox
A most excellent reference on that remains ‘The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money & Power’ by Daniel Yergin, originally published in 1990, awarded the Pulitzer prize in 1992 and still in print.
Takes things at the beginning with the finding of oil in Pennsylvania in 1859, riveting…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prize:_The_Epic_Quest_for_Oil,_Money,_and_Power
Interesting how the US media blame it all on Snowden, while European media blame it on cryptography and even the encrypted chat of Sony’s Playstation (!), which, for the record, the lunatics involved in the attacks never used as a means of communication.
European politicians instrumentalize the attacks to advocate for even more dragnet surveillance.
Makes sense. NOT
There is nothing left to bomb in Syria, what are they bombing? There was one report that the French were bombing a deserted village. The neo-cons used to say that they created their own reality. They certainly did. There is a direct line from March 19th, 2003 to November 13, 2015. Quite a work of art. The gang of four, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz would be on trial in a just world.
Brennan in today’s NYT claims that curtailed surveillance may put us at increased risk of “terror” attacks. The Paris carnage is now being leveraged to push back on those who want to restrict government surveillance. They sense that Americans may be significantly spooked (no pun intended) to clamor for greater surveillance powers. The NYT is determined to keep the spotlight off the monumental intelligence failures that the recent attacks signify.
I am not sure Madrid bombings was a islamic terrorists attack. Too many anomalies. To begin with, the explosive the police said it was used was proved by independent scientists to be wrong.
Well Glenn, you can be glad you’re in Brazil. Europe has become a totally heartless unlivable place. A sewer full of racist and egocentric hate. Don’t be fooled by the candles that you see on TV in Paris. The majority deserve to live in a brave new world where privacy is history. That’s democratic, they are asking for it. They can’t behave. They need big brother to watch over them. I won’t cry for them. I understand the terrorists, my opinion has changed.
You’re dangerous.
He said he UNDERSTANDS -not sympathizes with- the terrorists; who were CULTIVATED to be terrorists by irresponsible foreign policies that first dehumanize then goad them into these senseless violent acts that do nothing to alleviate the complaints that give rise to these action.
The Mass Surveillance State and the Military Industrial Complex are the other side of the Terrorist Coin. They need each other, and respond to the same flawed Developmental Model.
Killing Terrorists or citizens of a nation that has attacked Arab countries is like a soccer match, that can stir emotions but solves no ones real life problems.
The Goals are not real goals.
In short: Johan isn’t dangerous. (Just a little cynical – but with a legitmate cause.)
rrheard said: ” I’m sure I’m not being blocked or anything as Glenn responded to see if I was having any luck fixing what was happening.”
— I just thought he was taking the piss and laughed. Room for many interpretations of the smallest and simplest things, no wonder we’re at sea with the bigger more complex things.
I just assume that if comments disappear then ‘The Intercept’ regards them as valueless dross and accept it.
” The answer to that question is equally clear, and disturbing in the extreme.” What’s the answer?
Its allowed to continue
Piece from a former hostage of ISIS and French journalist–Nicolas Henin.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/16/isis-bombs-hostage-syria-islamic-state-paris-attacks
Also some interesting thoughts on the connection between climate change, economic and social dislocation/migration and the conflict in Syria from the National Academy of Sciences. In combination with a political vacuum created by America’s war in Iraq and its allies funding of ISIS in Syria and you’ve definitely got a recipe for chaos:
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/11/3241.abstract
And not sure if any of this comment is verifiable but might be something to research and confirm if anyone is willing:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/11/16/1450569/-Those-who-laugh-off-Sanders-linking-climate-change-to-terrorism-are-the-ones-who-should-be-mocked
Maybe true but Sanders voted for every military appropriations bill put before him.
What’s your point? Is there a better candidate than Sanders that you have in mind who is electable?
Is there a better candidate than Sanders that you have in mind who is electable?
The who is electable trope is one that is designed to keep people funneled into the two party system as it exists, to keep them from working to change it by supporting outside candidates who might better represent a voter’s own preferences.
I will support Sanders in the primary, because I can’t stand Clinton for a very large list of reasons, but I reserve the right to consider Dr. Jill Stein, or any other candidate who has cleared the enormous number of hurdles to getting access to our ‘democratic’ system, also designed to keep us, like cattle, in the system’s approved chutes.
There are those who credibly argue for non-participation due to the inherent corruption of the system. And there are those of us who are still not yet ready to abandon it entirely. But we only ensure to a greater degree our inability to effect change when we limit the horizons available to us by using language that embraces limitations dictated to us by those whose interests are best served by the status quo.
Yes, electability is a comfortably padded cage US voters are too afraid to leave.
Excellent series of points. If the voters abstain or write in Snowden or Greenwald , the two major parties may get the message that they smell. Only when the populace rises in support of this change will some progress in our politics ensue.
An I’m Calling Bullshit Production
Again, test, test, test, test . . . .
Test of links capability:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39761/anonymous-isis-plan-better-than-republicans/
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39727/paris-attacks-middle-eastern-oligarchies/
Man I wish I could figure out what is going on and get back into the mix on this topic. Oh well.
Well that’s one that went through let’s see if this one does. Doesn’t explain what happened to all the rest of my comments or that they won’t disappear in the future, but it is frustrating not being able to figure out if it’s happening on my end or with the comment system at the Intercept.
Be nice if anyone could confirm whether or not they are having problems seeing comments they submit. Or, alternatively, if comments are posting and visible but then subsequently disappearing.
Frustrating to say the least. We’ll see if this one makes it through.
Apologies in advance if these are coming through and annoying anyone, just trying to figure out what’s going on. So again sorry.
Two comments of yours above this one I’m making are visible, including one with multiple links.
@ Kitt
Thanks Kitt. Not sure what’s been happening earlier today or yesterday, but a bunch from yesterday are still not visible.
Appears to be working now. Guess I’ll just wait and see what happens going forward. I’m sure I’m not being blocked or anything as Glenn responded to see if I was having any luck fixing what was happening (not that my response to him posted I don’t think). Just trying to figure out what the technical glitch might be.
Sorry again for any annoyance it is causing anyone but I do appreciate the feedback on what you guys can see by comparison to what I’m submitting and seeing (or not).
No, comments are disappearing, and occasionally returning. Some are missing from this morning: I doubt they’ll return.
Surveillance goons are probably manipulating content served to individual targets and the tamed public, and their system is still buggy. I have good reason to infer Mona knows something about this.
Being a paranoid freakazoid who is incapable of understanding the most obvious evidence provided after months and even years that Mona’s not a “surveillance goon,” as much as you might wish it so, doesn’t qualify as a reason at all, much less a good one, to “infer” Mona knows something about your fantasy theory.
Evidence?
Right, I have no reason to distrust her or you and your employer. You can return to your full time wallpapering job now, rodent. I have reason to infer it pays very well.
I have no reason to distrust her or you
That would be correct … if you hadn’t added the remainder of your comment.
To even have considered your deluded fantasy based on what Mona and I have written here shows you to be either mentally ill or shockingly deficient in ability to reason. The fact that you’ve spent the last year and a half or two years on here ranting about Mona and me in the way that you have — and I think you might actually be serious — is why I’ve referred to you as a freak.
You’re wasting your life away convincing yourself of absurd scenarios to be scared of, and then also wasting your life away trying to convince others to share your delusions. This isn’t a ‘snark’ or a ‘for fun’ reply to you that I’m making, I’m quite serious in what I’m telling you. But, if you’ve chosen to live your entire life wallowing in deluded fantasies there’s nothing I can do about it beyond what I’ve already tried with a few comment replies.
People who worry about getting killed by drones based on “behavioral characteristics” probably don’t think much of our boo-hooing about robo-moderation — still, there is a lesson here. When people fear being judged by idiot machines, opportunities are lost and morale breaks down. (I lost my first posting about Terry Jones’ gun being confiscated around the same time; a butchered version appears below)
Comments are disappearing, in my opinion, because of some editorial TI B.S. I don’t think Glenn has much to do with it. It’s been brought to his attention a few times and he’s been mum about it.
Given what most of us know of Glenn’s combative, opinionated nature, that most of us love and admire, it’s very uncharacteristic that he hasn’t told any of us complaining about it to f.o. already.
I therefore think that he’s waging some sort of internal editorial battle about these shenanigans, that we’ll all one day read about :)
Edward Snowden’s Twitter has gone dead since November 12. I’m kinda glad he doesn’t have an opinion he wants to share on all this. There is a dignity in silence. But, thinking about it, I don’t think his friends need to defend him in his absence, although it’s noble that they do. The plain fact is that the mass surveillance agenda is going to win the day no matter what we think about it and if bad arguments are used to secure the debate in the eyes of a gullible public, then there’s nothing new there.
I open up the NY Times online and see that the POS CIA John Brennan is at it full bore. Obomber should have fired this torturer, war criminal, traitor long ago, but he is a weak person, and is captive to the war makers-war criminals. When you go to the polls in 2016, remember Obama and his persecution of ethical whistle blowers, and Pelosi, who said “impeachment is off the table” with the Bush Admin criminals. And Clinton who voted to help destroy the MidEast.
It appears that the NY Times is all in for a police state, but I read the comment sections with the articles, and their readers are a lot more savvy than the editors and many writers.
What does the MIC have on Obama?
Have an internet break for 24 hours, come back, and the sudden realisation dawns: People’s opinions are boring.
Great reporting. The incessant regurgitation is nauseating and not helpful. You are correct, it’s a red herring to blame a whistleblower when the real culprits aren’t doing their job. Also- history repeats itself in this blog by Robin Cook in The Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development
Former Gen. Barry McCaffery, moments ago, heaped blame on Snowden while being interviewed on Seattle’s NBC affiliate KING tv. Using words such as “devastating” he said we will be dealing with the damage from Snowden “for many years to come”.
ISIS still not a top priority for rebel militias in Syria!
” ….The opposition is too fragmented and numerous. There are a thousand five hundred militias, according to the CIA. Of course, there are about 20-30 that are big, important militias, but they refuse to talk to Assad. So, if one waited for Syrians to attend, one would have to wait until hell froze over. …”
” ….Most actors in Syria have other priorities besides destroying the Islamic State. Almost all rebel groups insist on destroying Assad before the Islamic State. They refuse to be drawn into what they call a “sahwa.” They do not want to become “agents of America” and so forth. The vast majority want nothing to do with the fight against ISIS before they have defeated Assad…. ”
“…. The strongest militias in Syria are the more extreme and more Salafist militias. The Islamists have a real ideology to sell; they are the militias who have national reach and representation in all provinces of Syria. The US backs the weakest militias in Syria. They are the non-ideological militias and are extremely local. For the most part, they are composed of clan and tribal leaders. They may hold sway over a village or two; they may command a thousand men, perhaps two thousand, but not more than that….”
http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/regime-change-without-state-collapse-is-impossible-in-syria-landis-interviewed-by-rts-sophieco-2/
” ….Anas, a Syrian journalist in Idlib province, said the Vienna talks were a joke.
“I think this conference took place on another planet. What is happening in Syria will continue to take place and nothing will change at this pace,” Anas said….”– Al Jazeera, 15 Nov 2015
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/16/france-shooting-encryption-idUSL1N13B2PA20151116#hq4FKIX1k6kUrd4Z.97
P’ska, do you recall a story here (I think) about some asshat in government openly longing for a terror attack so they can get all the goodies they want?
I sorta remember that but can’t recall specifically who said that. The warmonger/nat sec barnacles have been doing it off and on for some time now. Here’s Michael Scheuer back in 2009 on Beck’s show:
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michael-scheuer-fox-americas-only-ho
And Rand Paul had this to say about some of his Senate colleagues back in May (though he walked it back a bit when it splatted in rather predictable fashion):
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/243577-paul-colleagues-hoping-for-an-attack-to-blame-on-him
It was Robert Litt. Froomkin wrote about here at The Intercept:
Robert Litt
…and Jenna Mclaughlin. I didn’t mean to leave her authorship out in my comment.
PNAC had been dreaming of “a new Pearl Harbor” to speed up their RAD plan. From June, 2003.
You are so fucking out of touch that you should be embarrassed. What a bunch of total fucking bullshit.
The Republican governors are an example of how you can be so close to right and still totally wrong. I mean, trying to keep Syrian refugees out makes perfect sense, given that they’re from a country without a democratic tradition and include some number of terrorists who are going to create immense trouble for us. It makes a lot more sense than letting them in like France, then allowing warrantless searches of whole segments of the city as a consequence.
Except… it doesn’t. The problem is the whole “trying” part. They can try to keep the Syrians out, but the Federal government, international agreements and so forth will intervene. Human smugglers will intervene also – leaving the U.S. worrying about terrorists with topnotch fake papers. Their approach is like trying to deal with a burst dam upriver by reinforcing the dam just upstream of town. What they need to do is find a levee further upriver and blow a hole in it before the flood arrives!
We do need to keep the Syrians out — but the way to do that is to start at the Syrian border, and allocate actual funds to something that doesn’t go boom or see through your underwear. We need to step in *before* they’ve forked over their life savings to someone who says they can get them to America, and give them a safe, free community somewhere close to Syria to live in.
Otherwise, all the gubernatorial gestures in the world aren’t going to save us from the next wave of crackdowns and paranoia.
The governors may have an effect on Congress. Politico reports that Congressional GOP may tie some sort of restriction on Syrian refugees to the big spending bill. Maybe they were looking for any excuse for a budget crisis but it looks like they have a swell pretext.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/gop-lawmakers-syria-refugees-215936
Why must the Syrian refugees be “kept out”? Why do you think the Germans want them? They are well educated, intelligent, and in the past a track record of positively contributing to the “melting-pot” not only here but all over this hemisphere. You statement is racist and wrong.
Judging by past comments, he’s a racist and a fascist. Of the ‘liberal’ variety.
@ BenjaminAP
Presumably you are kidding, but generally speaking there is nothing “liberal” about being racist or fascist. In fact the former is the antithesis of the latter two. And having gone around with “Wnt” a few times I wouldn’t call him “liberal” notwithstanding any self-identification as “liberal” although I’ve never seen that either.
True. It’s not on the tin. Hence the scare quotes. There are people who identify as liberal, however, that can be accurately described as affinitatively racist/fascist. Implicitly or explicitly. Consciously or unconsciously. Bill Maher for example. That’s the thing about the politics of labels. “Identitarian deference”. Signaling. Communication. Naturally, there’s terrific incentive towards their co-optation. Overton Window and the like.
As for our friend here, that’s the impression I had, but I’ll defer to your scouting report. Rescinded.
“Fascist” is declaring a state of emergency over fewer casualties than one downed plane, and busting into hundreds of homes just in case you might find something. Fascist is prohibiting any communication of any kind unless the government has access to it. I often feel that not being fascist puts me in a distinct minority.
Racism is believing that people born into Muslim households must forever be Muslim, and/or accepting their call for the killing of apostates as legitimate law. A person can criticize Islam and not be a racist.
A problem I have here is that anti-Islam sentiment, though sorely needed, has been left entirely to conservatives. And conservatives are no good at it. They were never fans of ACT-UP raiding Cathedrals and spitting out communion wafers, or artists making sculptures of the Virgin Mary out of elephant dung. Even when they go out and burn Korans, they tend to lack the subtlety and style of the seasoned blasphemer.
But their biggest problem is that, as always, they are all stick and no carrot. You can have a line of ten thousand guys with sticks paced out along the border and the Syrians will still get through. I say set up one guy with a carrot a long way away from the border and let them find him!
Still, there are occasional uses for a stick, and one of those uses is the innovative idea that when you are at war with a country, you keep their people out. I know people like tourists, but as the Ukrainians would tell you, they can be a problem! Not being a fascist I don’t actually want all Syrians interned in camps for the duration of the conflict, as was standard in earlier more successful wars – I don’t really worry much if they go back and fight for their crazy, as long as they don’t do it here. I’m not calling for people of Syrian descent to lose citizenship or even for permanent residency to be revoked.
I do think it makes sense that if a border would be hard to pass for you or I were we to come up to it from the far side without a passport, it should be harder to pass if you come from a country of lunatics with fair (some of you might even claim just) reasons to kill us.
@rrheard “hate to say I told ya so…”
Thanks for a brilliant report that delves headlong into topics no other media outlet would dare touch. I just wanted to point out a small error. The taped interview of Al Jazeera’s Mehdi Hasan with Gen. Michael Flynn, is not a four-minute clip. It’s 47+ minutes. It is, as Greenwald notes, “extraordinary.”
It auto-starts at 8:48 in. Having watched the whole thing, I think GG is calling particular attention to the next four minutes.
Security agencies are incredibly lazy. They’re not interested in doing old fashioned detective work. They just want to scoop up everyone’s data and index it so that they can catch the bad guys before it’s time to go home at 5PM.
It’s all the more baffling in this day and age with all the technology they have at their fingertips which allows them to remotely spy on anyone they choose.
But they’re not interested in the targeted approach because that’s not the easiest. And if you expect your enemies to expose themselves to the easiest methods of detection then you will ensure failure time and time again.
Precisely. And every time they fail, they’re given greater resources so they don’t fail the next time. It’s the perfect business model.
You write:
“So now credible news sites are regurgitating the claim that the Paris Terrorists were enabled by Snowden leaks …”
And what if that turns out to be true? Would you still be so sniffy and arrogant about this? Just sayin’
Mr. Greenwald’s article demonstrated that terrorist organizations knew about surveillance and encryption long before Snowden. However, Mr. Greenwald was suspiciously silent concerning journalists. It would be interesting to compare the number of journalists using encryption when communicating with their sources, before and after Snowden. It’s quite possible the US government is going dark and being blindsided by the news to a much greater extent than ever before.
Putting aside the fact that it has never “turned out to be true” prior to this latest ‘Blame Snowden’ festival, aren’t you just a little bit bothered by the part of the quote that you left off:
Sniffy? Anyhoo, please describe a scenario in which Snowden stories would have alerted these 8 individuals to anything that, say, Al Qaeda, has not known for years before Snowden?
Not to sound sniffy or anything, but you’ve been duped, kelbo.
https://twitter.com/MrPolyatheist/status/666009420984410112
“I like the Walrus best”, said Alice,
Is that supposed to be a surprise? I mean, imagine you’re at a Secret Terrorist Hideout watching the TV and you see this madness unfolding in France, amid promises of a “pitiless” response. What would you think would happen?
“Secret Terrorist Hideout”
Such a pity.
this is on you tube ,around like minded videos
Arn’t you doing the same. Exploiting the event? I mean you are nothing without your personal brand. And your personal brand and all your money is tied to Snowden these days. It actually is quite convenient for you, after all this post would not exist otherwise. I agree with you, you are a journalist. Journalists write for reaction and eyeballs. That is it. In business we refer to this as growth hacking. So as long as you are doing exactly what you say you are protecting the world against. Propaganda. Then it’s hard to accept what you say.
What did I just read…
Don’t like the message, so attack the messenger? You do comprehend the purpose of journalism, yes?
Someone on the internet just said that the death of 130 or more people, and all of those who are injured, and all of those who are suffering directly or indirectly because of the mass murders that were committed, is “quite convenient.” There are a lot of warped people who expose their warped mind and ugly character over the internet.
Blame?? Responsibility?? All caused by the politicians – and they we all know shift the blame to others / because they are never wrong. A nation of peace?? bombing who & WHY? Revenge??
theirs or ours. The Blame ?? Vengeance is mine saith the lord. It is not who threw the first stone – but who threw the last?? How many innocent bystanders were killed / and how many more will be killed??
Krugman’s Monday column leaves off the economics and is on point here. And he doesn’t mention Snowden.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html
“appeasers…” Fucking gross.
The thing that doesn’t compute for me is that encryption isn’t new; it’s been around for a couple of thousand years. For arguments sake, let’s assume Apple, Google and Microsoft remove encryption from their phones. It won’t make blind bit of difference. The CIA has a freaking statue out in plain sight with encrypted text that people haven’t been able to break in 25 years.
The pats on the head for Obama are perplexing to me. Remember, Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act. Regime change was the official policy of USgov. The bad faith bot called ‘CraigSummers’ has a point in that regard. The sanctions regime set the ground for regime change. Madeline Albright made it clear the goal posts would move according to the policy (something to keep in mind re: long game of Iran)
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/001542.html
9/11 was on the way. And if it happened on Gore’s watch, it’s likely aggressive war was going to occur regardless of a Democrat or Republican in office. We’re all such practical cynics when it comes to our mock democracy. But dare suggest foreign policy is contiguous between presidencies, and people freak the fuck out. I don’t get it. Obama deserves credit for not “putting boots on the ground”? And that means the policy is passive? Seriously?
“The Onion Predicted The Rise Of The Islamic State In 2003″
“The satirical news site warned the Iraq War would fuel “a million bin Ladens.””
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-onion-islamic-state_5649fb70e4b08cda3489a3b0
Though I’m still wishing and hoping for those fireworks, Glenn, where we would we be without you — and I’ve been a reader/fan for many, many years. You put many journalists to shame and this article is a perfect example of how well you do it. Keep it all comin’. Great article.
The only reason I watch mainstream “news” is to see the (propaganda), flavor of the day. It just seems to me that everyone is lost in a sea of delusional fabrications. I get more from the people on this site than anywhere else. Thanx! I’m really getting tired of govt officials blaming encryption by not letting them spy on whom ever they want. They then blame this on the various attacks around the world. If they can attach a name all the better to spin their propaganda. I’m truly sorry these people lost their lives and I’m grieving for their loss and for their loved ones. The trouble now is how to repair all of this, as the toothpaste is out of the tube, so to speak.
Quite simply indeed. Way back in 2007, as reported in the NYT
Leader of Al Qaeda group in Iraq was fictional, U.S. military says
Gee, why would they want to do that?
Interesting that the IS branding didn’t catch on until 2014, seven years later.
Note, the Baghdadi referred to here (Abu Abdullah al-Rashid al-Baghdadi) is different from the current, equally elusive Baghdadi. al-Rashid was ‘killed’ (written off?) in 2010. The new Baghdadi appears a few years later during the ISIS putsch, like it’s a fucking soap opera. “He’s only been photographed once!”. Rotating Baghdadi’s.
LOL
This story went down the memory hole with terrific efficiency. And yet, GCC+Turkey’s (NATO) involvement is the worst kept secret in the world.
woops, linky here
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/world/africa/18iht-iraq.4.6718200.html
Yup, I believe this Youtube explains it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kdi1UXxhY&feature=player_embedded
When I saw the first articles blaming Edward Snowden for the Paris attacks, as they were strenuously expelled from the State Department’s dilated, leprous propaganda-sphincter, I knew you’d cover and debunk them extensively, Mr. Greenwald. Thanks for not disappointing.
Sidebar:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11998301/Paris-attacks-France-to-call-for-effective-suspension-of-Schengen-open-borders.html
Well, there it is: time to call it as a victory for ISIS. Once the “temporary” (which in security-speak is more durable than permanent) measures are taken, countries will be able to identify people at their borders … but of course they don’t do that without the purpose of stopping them. And it won’t just be Syrians who are stopped. As Europeans begin to accept that they don’t have a real right to live and work throughout the EU, they will start to think of smarter political strategy, which is to say, advocacy for their country at the expense of the others. And so it all comes down… eventually there will be European wars again.
Allah may be the dumbest figure in religion, but he is sure kicking our asses worldwide. Because we don’t need anyone to do it … our simple failure to believe in our own basic ideals means that the tiniest vibration brings the whole house of cards crashing down.
If they cancel Schengen, which is to say, the free movement of goods and people inside that part of EU, it basically ends EU. It would’ve been one thing if Hollande had called for an iron curtain around Schengen, and maybe tighter police checkpoints inside it, but this is basically a proposal to self-terminate any progress since 1947. Or, as Shirer put it about Vichy, “The Third Republic was dead. It had committed suicide.”
auuuu, when borders stopped illegal crossing? Never. And attackers came from Belgium also, anybody from that country can cross border with France, in the wood.
Borders don’t stop them. My point was that if the EU cancels Schengen and raises borders, with customs sheds and barber-pole barriers and people with rubber stamps, it will stop a lot of free movement. That was the whole idea of the EU, and the EEC before that. Got it?
A boy is given a horse on his 14th birthday. Everyone in the village says, “Oh how wonderful.” But a Zen master who lives in the village says, “We’ll see.” ‘The boy falls off the horse and breaks his foot. Everyone in the village says, “Oh how awful.” The Zen master says, “We’ll see.” The village is thrown into war and all the young men have to go to war. But, because of the broken foot, the boy stays behind. Everyone says, “Oh, how wonderful.” The Zen master says, “We’ll see.”
A boy attends his first political debate, and finds an enormous pile of horse manure in the studio. He grabs a shovel and digs frantically, saying, “There’s got to be a pony in here somewhere!”
Beyond the warmongers in Bush Administration we can blame L. Paul Bremer for
dissolving the Iraq military and banning the Ba’ath party members.
Most rank and file Ba’athists weren’t hard core members.
You’ll find those two groups form the operating leadership of ISIS.
Snowden has as much to do with terrorism as Nokia, Apple,Samsung or HTC . It would also make as much sense to blame the telephone companies for allowing terrorists to use their networks or ICANN for running the internet domain names and the IP address system that allows terrorists to post to the internet.
I have to say the real strength of this site and ammunition against lies is including proof in the articles which it is sad to say not offered or demanded by presenters and readers on many news sites.
“Beyond the warmongers in the Bush administration…”
I didn’t realize that the majority of democrats in congress at that time,
especially Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry
(who were rewarded for their participation with more powerful positions
in the current administration),
were also part of the Bush administration because they were certainly
willing participants in the warmongering.
I was not talking about every one who agreed just those who initiated the idea, pushed it through congress, the media, the international community and then carried out the invasion of 2 countries.
If Al Gore had won the presidency we might have struck the Al Qaeda camps Afghanistan but we would not have invaded that and Iraq with combat troops.
Those invasions were pushed by Wolfowitz, Pearle, Rice, Hadley, Libby, Cheney, Rumsfeld and other Republican neocons.
The invasions of Iraq was clearly planned during the Clinton
administration by the Project for the New American Century.
I think the real final vote count from 2000 showed that
Gore did win the votes in Florida and nationally.
Of course, Gore himself made sure Bush had his way in Florida.
I have little reason to doubt that Gore needed Bush to win
in order to maintain the illusion of opposition parties and keep
people thinking that the democrats wouldn’t be as bad as they are.
Gore was more than ready to not fight the corruption in Florida and
he gave up very quickly and did NOT demand an accurate counting of votes
before he gave Bush the oval office.
You forget that Gore had Joe LIEberman, one of the worst neocon/Israel hawks as his VP candidate. So if Joe had influence, or Gore was incapacitated, we would have invaded Iraq under LIEberman. Most Dems conveniently forget that because it is easier to blame Ralph Nader, the only true public servant to run for POTUS in my lifetime.
How tiresome it is, to read the exchanges of accusations between Messrs. Alfonse, the republican, and Gaston, the democrat. Meaningless labels for what is essentially one Party. Of course, there are sane voices on both sides of the aisle, but these are drowned out by the mob. We can trace the process by which ISIS came into being in direct steps back to the end of World War 1 and the Sikes-Picot Agreement. Woodrow Wilson, a democrat, failed to stop his British and French pals from sowing the seeds not only for World War 2 but most of the Middle East wars since. And no subsequent president, republican or democrat, has taken the ample opportunities presented to repudiate that act. Quite the contrary, they have all engaged in meddling on behalf of corporations or fanatics to some degree.
If we fail to recognize the role we have played in this, and fail to take a different course, nothing will change.
I do not trust ANY democrat, republican, or libertarian candidates
or office-holders because they all worship capitalism above all else.
I will continue to vote Green as long as that is the only party which
has consistently stated what needs to be done.
My point above was to show that democrats and republicans are the
same agenda with different types of lies worn as disguises.
they worship capitalism above all else? yea, sure, maybe the crony kind. and bernie sanders is a damn socialist. hillary ain’t far behind. and they all want to print and spend as much money as they can get away with. i don’t know what you think the economic system called capitalism refers to, but is definitely isn’t what is going on in the US right now.
EXCELLENT, as always! The Belgians say jihadists are using Sony Play Station 4s – PS4s – to communicate and plot: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/11/14/why-the-paris-isis-terrorists-used-ps4-to-plan-attacks/
It’s sick and sad they blame it on Snowden.
Just so you know Intercept.
I can not get a comment to post using Tor.
Why is that?
I have to use Firefox.
I am not happy with the deletions either.
You have been told but you think so little of your readers you dont even acknowledge the deletions.
What’s up with that oh transparent ones?
Your inability to post comments using Tor has to do with the privacy features of the Tor network.
Maybe you can’t post using Tor, but I have no trouble. Maybe because I’m on the 2 dollar bill?
(more thank-you’s for glenn greenwald’n’all!)…
waking up from propaganda’s daze…
it’s startling to awaken from propaganda’s great brainwashing…
feels like closed attic windows suddenly opened to fresh air…
where breezes unwrap layers of antique trained thoughts…
and clear the mind’s view to time’s lockboxes there!…
how different that huge government trunk now looks…
its material once hidden under thick publicity-stunt dust…
sits cracked at its hinges snapped by rigged rules and hooks…
unable to maintain weak disguises of real democracy and trust!…
pages in schoolbooks and newspapers stack up in strewn shame…
as juggled facts and half-truths no longer hold enough weight…
unveiled scales of misinformation reveal pieces of a game…
played to keep we-the-people from controlling our fate!…
established ideas get rattled when facing truer realizations…
steadfast loyalty falls sick on learning it supported hypocrisy…
heartbreak lives with what’s left after deception drains a nation…
while new awareness inside starts to form a far better occupancy!…
James Woolsey in the most deliberate manner planted and blamed Snowden’s leaks, adding , for effect, the blood of the victims in Paris were on Snowden’s hands. It was a jaw dropping revolting sickening moment. Click. Mainstream media is unwatchable.
Well, whose to blame? Let’s give the blame to all the parties involved. The governments for trampling on the privacy rights, Edward Snowden for his thief, Greenwald for being a ruthless opportunist and of course the deviates who believe they are fighting a holy war when they themselves are not even close to holy. Please don’t believe everything you read even when the writers say their motives are the puriest. Just ask the suicide bombers where do they think they are going after they die!!!
The telling detail is that authorities have no objection at all to increasing the risk of terrorism in order to deny rights. I tried to post this before, so now you get no source link, lousy prose: Terry Jones had his gun taken away from him October 30 after investigators following him wherever he went were able to show that he allowed it to be seen on a McDonalds videotape. First and Second Amendments are an either/or thing, I guess. He’s on the hit list of 11 people Al Qaida wants dead, and some of those already are dead … but heavens, no, we can’t allow him to not conceal a concealed gun! Or to roam around without agents dogging his every move.
I guess it’s good investment for the spies … once some fanatic kills him, time for more crackdowns! And more rights revoked. Maybe they can make it illegal both to admire Muhammad’s sick behavior and to criticize it.
In other news: just like the guy who shot up Pamela Gellar’s event, one of the Amimours actually tried to leave for Jihadistan, only to get detained as a terrorist. What a genius move! Terrorists are such a scarce resource that the spooks have to hang onto every one in the hope one of them will produce!
Test, test, test, test, test . . . .
How’d it go?
My source is the web edition of The Guardian.
“G20: Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin agree to Syrian-led transition
The United States and Russia have reached consensus at the G20 on the need for “a Syrian-led and Syrian-owned political transition” following a sidelines meeting between Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin on Sunday.
A White House official said Obama and Putin had agreed the United Nations would mediate negotiations between the Syrian opposition and the regime after a ceasefire.
The thaw between Obama and Putin came in the lead-up to the summit’s working dinner, where G20 leaders were due to focus on strategies to counter violent extremism.”
Could be Obama reads you, Glenn!
‘. . . During the first day of the G-20 summit, US President Barack Obama held a 35-minute discussion with Russian President Vladimir Putin in what the White House described as “constructive” talks.
The meeting followed an agreement by a meeting of the foreign ministers of the 17-member International Syria Support Group in Vienna on Saturday to work towards a ceasefire in Syria and the holding of elections under United Nations auspices within two years. The group, which includes the five permanent members of the UN Security Council, issued a statement that a “common understanding” had been reached in key issues.
The subsequent discussions between Obama and Putin at the G-20 were held as part of the US objective of sidelining, if not completely removing, Russian support for the Syrian regime of president Bashar al-Assad.
Under the agreement, following a ceasefire, a process would be set in motion to establish “inclusive and non-sectarian” governance, the drafting of a new constitution and the holding of elections under UN supervision within 18 months.’
A Paging General Clark To A White Courtesy Phone Production
ht`vJain
[snip]
‘However, the crucial sticking point remains the future of Assad. In an interview on the eve of the G-20 summit, Putin said other nations had no right to demand that Assad leave office and that “only those who believe in their exceptionality [a thinly-veiled reference to the US] allow themselves to act in such a manner and impose their will on others.”
The US has been waging a campaign since 2011 for the overturn of the Assad government as part of its regime-change operations in the Middle East, in order to bring the region under its control. Russia has backed Assad in order to protect its strategic interests in the region, including a naval facility in Syria.
The US has made clear that as far as it is concerned there can be no resolution without Assad’s ouster—a position repeated by Obama’s National Security Adviser Susan Rice. She said a “transition regime” had to come to power “and it’s very hard to envision how that could be accomplished with Assad still in power.” . . .
A No Shit Sherlock London Lad Lives Production
The President also got upset over lazy rhetoric over Paris generally, the “boots on the ground” and the no-non-Christian refugees talk in particular.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/obama-rules-out-syria-ground-invasion-paris-attacks
He’s got a point: “boots on the ground” mean that some of the returning vets leave one or both boots there.
Another excellent article Mr. Greenwald and thank you for this compilation of evidence of yet more lies, deceit, propaganda and manipulation.
Since at least as long ago as the 15th Century, non-conformist critical thinkers were invariably designated as ‘witches’, who were frequently accused on trumped-up allegations as being evil, and burnt at the stake on the village green on the orders of their lords and masters, to the jeers of a blood-thirsty, ignorant public.
To-day’s witches are called ‘scapegoats’, who are invariably people with moral fibre and courage and are perceived as a threat to dishonest cowards and bullies incapable of assuming their own misdeeds. Unable to justify to themselves and others their own wrongdoings, they resort to character assassination of their chosen victim and, being both gutless and heinous, engage others to do their dirty work.
At the expense of truth, transparence and democracy, there will unfortunately always be self-serving media skivvies with missing neurones eager to sweep their masters’ shit under the carpet while manipulating attention in the direction of a scapegoat.
Fortunately, however, there are still some people, such as yourself, in a regrettably diminishing quality media, and an increasingly enlightened public capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff, who refuse to be complicit by remaining silent, and who are determined to do whatever is possible in a world of equally diminishing freedom to avoid returning to the barbaric practices of the 15th Century and to past periods of tyranny.
Keep it coming – you and people like Ed. have all our support and solidarity.
Glen the quoi bono question in the Middle East was glarly missing, for precisely the same technic you try to demostrate. Palestine and Arab dictators we support.
While there are other distractions such as the oil and the land, we can not help to notice, that the corporate shareholder of the military industrial and security complex, is at the reciving end here in U.S.
Once again Glen has answered what I was wondering: where are all these arms coming from? I didn’t think Syria or other countries in the area had a major arms industry and that the arms had to come from someone. Guess what.
I find myself pondering Napoleon.
It is estimated that over 3,000,000 and possibly up to 6,500,000
people had died as a result of imperialist Napoleon’s France and the
militarizing egotism of monarchical Europe in general.
Napoleon’s rotted corpse today lies under a gilded dome and his
“triumphal” arch is still a source of great pride,
especially during shows of militarized bravado.
To imply that ISIS and its associated disgusting brutalities
are connected to Edward Snowden and to ignore the role of
the multitude of would-be Napoleons who are flourishing within
NATO is a behavior which would be right in line with
the way the warmongering Napoleonic mentality would
re-write history
in order to pridefully promote censorship and
more vicious militarized brutalities on a global scale.
The last thing these would-be Napoleons want us to see
are the vicious, bloody parallels between ISIS and NATO.
The Americans have already admitted to arming ISIS, so why are these gallant and brave Froggy knights bombing Washington?
The answer is that they are being cowardly surrender monkeys again! Vive la Brollers!
“I supported the [US] invasion [of Iraq] for regime change (the real reason for the invasion) – and I still do.” — CRAIG SUMMERS
But-but-but Craig, the Bush Administration said we had to invade Iraq to protect America from Saddam’s hellish arsenal of WMD — remember? The stated objective of the invasion was to “disarm” Saddam — remember? Invasion was a “last resort” to be employed only if Saddam refused to “disarm” — remember?
Are you saying the Bush Administration was LYING about the “real reason” for the invasion? If so, does this suggest Americans should be highly skeptical when conservatives urge war?
I would bet the house, the farm and my immortal soul that you, too, were frantically sounding the alarm about Saddam’s scary weapons back in the heady, exciting days of 2002-2003. Did you have a different “real reason”? Were you lying as well?
Sigh … youth is wasted on the young, Gator.
*bad news (for you.); it’s SEC basketball time!
Good morning Bah. Some years I do think of November as basketball season, but this year, Allah be praised, it’s still football season!
Did Bush lie? It was US intelligence that indicated Saddam had WMDs. Agreed that Bush pushed the envelope looking for an excuse to invade and remove Saddam from power. Regime change was also the official position of the US government passed by Congress in 1998. In addition, there had been no inspections in Iraq since Clinton bombed Saddam’s facilities in late 1998 – nearly three years at the time of 911.
“…..I would bet the house, the farm and my immortal soul that you, too, were frantically sounding the alarm about Saddam’s scary weapons back in the heady, exciting days of 2002-2003…..”
I supported the invasion.
@Craig
What do you mean when you say Bush “pushed the envelope”? Do you mean he “lied” or something else, and if something else, then what? And again, does the answer indicate that conservatives should not be trusted when they urge military action, since they lie or at least “push the envelope” when they do so?
I know you supported the invasion, but was it because of what you now say was the “real reason” (regime change), or were you quaking with fear of those WMD Bush was ly — er, “pushing the envelope” about?
Gator
There was probably enough information to doubt that Saddam had WMDs. That doesn’t necessarily mean he lied to the public. However, Bush decided to invade to remove Saddam from power even if there was doubt of WMDs. The primary goal was regime change.
What Bush did had nothing to do with future decisions by Republicans or Democrats. As for myself, I believed that Saddam had WMDs, but I also supported ousting him from power.
Florida is still winning although they’ve had a couple of close games.
@Craig
Think about it a minute. If, as you say, Bush had decided on war irrespective of whether Saddam had WMD, how could he NOT have been lying when he publicly declared war to be a “last resort” that would occur only if Saddam refused to surrender the alleged WMD?
Why is it so hard for you to admit the obvious — i.e., that Bush lied? Does the undeniable fact of his lying have implications that you would rather not confront?
Again, that doesn’t prove he lied. After all, intelligence supported his conclusions. If you are President, you are reliant on the CIA for intelligence. Doesn’t the CIA director meet with the President about every day?
You should also remember that Saddam Hussein repeatedly violated 16 UN resolutions allowed access to weapons inspectors. He played cat and mouse with the inspectors – and paid the price. He could have fully cooperated, but didn’t so put the blame where it belongs. If Bush lied, it was the history of the Iraqi dictator that allowed him to get away with it – including two invasions, his use of WMDs, his support of terrorism against Israel and attacking Israel with missiles capable of carrying chemical weapons . Two events allowed Bush to invade:
1. 911
2. the history of Saddam Hussein
Because of 911 and Saddam’s sordid and brutal history (including repression of the Shia and Kurds), Bush decided to remove him from power. Regime change.
Thanks (and I’m done rooting for the Gators).
Craig Summers, you are incorrect sir. Here’s a blow-by-blow op-ed, printed by – believe it or not – the mainstream LA Times. All assertions are hyperlinked:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-oew-bolton27-2008jun27-story.html
In it is a trove of overwhelming evidence Bush lied. In opposition to your two points, I’d offer this: the CIA (part of the Executive Branch and reporting directly to the president) collects data from 16 US intelligence agencies to produce the annual National Intelligence Estimate. The NIE from 2002-2003 clearly stated that “Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks” with chem/bio weapons.
And this: “from November 2002 to March 2003, UN Weapons Inspectors were granted unprecedented freedom and conducted more than 700 no-notice inspections all over Iraq and found nothing. No mobile labs, no underground storage facilities, nothing. UN Chief Inspector Hans Blix flat out accused Bush and [Tony] Blair of lying when he stated: ‘The Americans and British created facts where there were no facts at all. … The Americans needed [to find] weapons of mass destruction to justify war.’”
War in Iraq was the primary objective of the Bush administration. In 2001, just two weeks into office, he appointed VP Dick Cheney to head the Energy Task Force. Look THAT up and see who sat on it and what they were doing. There is ample evidence that Cheney and members of Big Oil were plotting to get their hands on Iraq’s oil fields. It’s the main reason Cheney fought all the way to the Supreme Court to keep secret all content related to the commission. Surprise!!! He won the decision. Why? National Security.
According to your source:
“……And boy, did they. Here are statements from the administration in 2002 as they beat the drums for war. Dick Cheney said: “There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use … against us.” Condoleezza Rice: “We do know that [Hussein] is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon.” Donald Rumsfeld: “[Hussein’s] regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons.”………….These statements were designed to cultivate in Americans fear of Iraq’s imminent threat, the keystone of Bush’s push to war. They were grossly and intentionally misleading, suggesting that the administration possessed incontrovertible facts on which were drawn these definitive conclusions. In reality, the facts were known to be ambiguous at best. Absolutely no intelligence existed at the time that would allow anyone to reach such concrete conclusions…….And Bush advisors aren’t the only ones. His assertion on Oct. 7, 2002, that Iraq posed an imminent threat was beaten into the nation’s psyche: “Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof.” Yet the president possessed directly opposing information from the top-secret National Intelligence Estimate, released days earlier. Prepared by the CIA with input from 16 U.S. intelligence agencies: “Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks with conventional CBW [chemical and biological weapons] against the United States.”…..
The declassified summary of the NIE — released by the administration for public and media review shortly after the full report — was another lie in that it was grotesquely altered. The above point was not included. Also missing were several forceful statements from other intelligence agencies disputing the CIA’s horribly overblown and inaccurate assessments. Finally, in at least half a dozen instances, conclusions were altered to make Iraq’s threat more compelling. Language was added or omitted that changed CIA opinions to incontrovertible facts……Conclusion: The public document was rigged to support the push for war. The president intentionally misled the public. The intelligence and facts were fixed around the policy……”
I don’t believe anyone in America feared an attack from Saddam. That’s ridiculous. However, the US considered Saddam to be a regional threat. I’m not denying that there was a push to go to war by the Bush White House, but as the statement above indicates “….In reality, the facts were known to be ambiguous at best……”, i.e., no one knew for certain whether Saddam was disarmed or not – especially since there had been no weapons inspections since 1998.
Again, even if Bush lied, the primary reason for invading Iraq was regime change.
Thanks.
In one post, you asked, “Did Bush lie,” followed by, “It was US intelligence that indicated Saddam had WMDs.” The answer to the question is “Yes, he lied.” The rebuttal to your statement is US intelligence did NOT indicate Hussein had WMDs. To the contrary, US intelligence knew he didn’t.
In another post, you stated, “There was probably enough information to doubt that Saddam had WMDs. That doesn’t necessarily mean he lied to the public.” You’re contradicting yourself… twice.
My reply stands. If, as you state, the goal was “regime change” and to accomplish this, he manufactured a threat known to be false, and then he and his cabinet browbeat the public with this imminent threat to our security, THEN HE LIED. And as the op-ed points out, he ordered the invasion knowing the CIA, other governments and the UN Weapons Inspectors had repeatedly concluded there was no plausible threat.
Remember the list of countries that comprised the Multi National Force for Operation Iraqi Freedom? Where was France? Spain? Germany? Where were our traditional allies? Where was the coalition of 1991? Sitting it out, that’s where. Those countries refused to participate in 2003 because the foundation was false. This was a US/UK operation, with Estonia thrown in to assist.
Finally, once we got in, got Hussein but couldn’t find the WMDs, Bush just flipped a right turn and in effect stated the invasion “wasn’t about the WMDs, it was about fighting terrorism.” The only serious terrorists we fought were those who came to fight us AFTER WE INVADED.
You wanted regime change? You got it. And how’s that been working for the globe so far?
I’m sure Craig understands that was just a way to sell the invasion to the public. The real objective was regime change, as he says. This objective was achieved, which is why Craig still supports the invasion. Any mayhem, destruction and subsequent destabilization is secondary. The goal of American imperialism is global hegemony, i.e. the destruction of independence and self-determination. People like Craig will seek to advance such goals, even if the result is global chaos and oppression.
Self determination? Are you saying that the Iraqi people under Saddam Hussein had a say in determining their own government? Are you joking Jose? The Iraqis were surely living the dream…….
You certainly can’t have self-determination if you’re ruled by outsiders via proxies. That’s not to say self-determination is assured otherwise, but at least you have a chance.
If you review the Koreas, self determination for the South Koreans came about strictly because of US interference.
LR General Secretary Laurent Wauquiez
The National Front and BNP get laughed at in England, even by fat skinheads in bovver boots. In France they get 20% of the vote.
Now they can show the Americans they are willing to kiss arse and toe the line in the name of not having the international banks shut them down like they are doing in Greece and Portugal and soon in Italy.
Now they dash off with some Gallic aplomb to bomb those ISIS-Daesh-whatevers and oh so accidently drop a couple on Assad whilst they are at it. Zoot alors!
Good Lord! “London Lad Lives” … despite multiple brain andyerisms, lock-jaw and a bout of Torre ts syndrome?
London Lad Lives.
Well I’ll be Paris Hilton’s Chihuahua.
Listen, don’t mention the war or building seven! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right.So! It’s all forgotten now, and let’s hear no more about it. So, that’s two planes, three steel towers, a war on terror, and building seven.
Come to think of it, terrorism is a perfect solution to the problem faced by many countries after the collapse of the Soviet Union: How to maintain the utterly necessary arms industry and bloated military, how to control dissidents who might want governments to turn their attention to humanitarian aid, the environment, health care, critical infrastructure and other such unnecessary efforts. In the US since those Saudi terrorist attacks around the turn of the century we have seen great benefits to our law enforcement establishment, which is no longer burdened by the need to pursue actual criminals, but rather can buy ever nicer toys to play with and occasionally practice with particularly on people of color.
The big challenge has been in maintaining a suitable level of terrorist violence to keep the public in a state of virtual panic. This is being accomplished by randomly bombing civilian targets (under the guise of attacking terrorists or retaliating for terrorist attacks) to produce more terrorists. True, some terrorists are killed in some of these attacks, but that is necessary both to maintain the charade and to satisfy the blood lust of the Abrahamists, who wave their holy books in the air while chanting for an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Dear Jeff.
The US military-industrial complex ARE the terrorists, Gen. Flynn is admitting as much.
See, one man’s terrorist is another man’s government. Or was that freedom fighter? I forget. And where did I put all those weapons I was supposed to be giving to Iraq again?
Jeez, it is hard to keep up when all you do is focus on the little picture. Almost like chasing your tail. Except with dead people and a whole pot of oil cash.
Speaking of morons, I take it you are unacquainted with the concept of irony. My entire point is that had ISIS not existed (as a result of our ill-conceived and ill-executed efforts to rid the world of al Qaeda, which we also created, then we would have had to create them. By we I mean, of course, the ruling classes in the US and UK, which are supported by the majorities of their electorates.
The elections as you refer are just for show, right? It keeps the people content to say they voted for whoever and now have a “say” in their country.
Astonishingly extraordinary (47+min) interview, Glenn.
notes:
1. Hard to see US complicity w/ the rise of ISIS as “inadvertent” when Gen. Flynn calls it a deliberate “policy decision” by Obama. A “willful decision.”
2. Gen. Flynn’s now-ubiquitous observation “History will not be kind with the decision to go into Iraq” ignores, well… history. *also, the continued callus description of that ‘decision’ as a ‘strategic blunder’, or mistake, again, can only serve to undermine those ‘shared values of humanity’ Obama describes in the response to the Paris attack, imo.
3. This is not good: “I can’t tell you what’s going on Mehdi” … “and I’ve been at this a long time” *Gen. Flynn
“Ow! You’re standing on my toes!” Says The World. “Oh, sorry, mea culpa!” say Gen Flynn. Doesn’t budge an inch.
I am sure lots of rapists and murderers similarly express awareness of – even pride and delight in – their crimes whilst still ramming whatever their weapon of choice is firmly home.
It would be nice to think this is the beginning of the end, but it is more likely someone so utterly convinced they are about to win being a smug bastard about it all.
I definitely see Gen. Flynn’s extraordinary interview as an act of contrition… ‘albeit, inadvertently’.
That’s because:
1. You are too afraid to admit that AMERICA ARE MURDERERS.
2. You are possibly American and that makes you COMPLICIT.
3. You’re an apologetic moron.
“Oh, jeez, sorry, we left all those guns lying around near those craaaa-zy guys we knew wanted to help us get regime change in a country opposing our fracking industry that will pollute our own country and necessitate an intolerably large rise in oil prices to facilitate it and then allow us to sail the globe in our mighty ships and plant the swastika-spangeld banana in every corner of this great Earth! I’m soooooooooooooo contrite in my sackcloth!” said a US Army spokesman who had the smuggest look of So-What-You-Gonna-Do-About-It-Anyhows they could find today.
I can see he has his fingers crossed when he says it. Plus he’s a lying shitbag. I filled in the gaps a bit, too.
Careful. Its dull to live in a black and white world.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/elviscostello/blackandwhiteworld.html
“not wittingly” – the Clapper
This is what we think of Obama and the Western Press in Thailand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU0m-Eo-mbc
Great story.
Yeah, because those politicians are always “inadvertantly” leaving tons of heavy arms and armour lying around next door to regimes they want to overthrow in places full of unemployed soldiers and mercenaries, I mean “terrorists”.
Whoops! How clumsy of them.
Call a spade a spade, Glenn.
Notice how it is now Daesh, not ISIS, like it is not Al Qaeda any more, or Taliban. Next Daesh will vanish and Assad will be accused to “destabilising the region and allowing terrorists to flourish” and will be overthrown, then Iran will be “harbouring people of the wrong persuasion blah blah blah” and then be bombed, and then Russia will get nuked.
Then America will get its trillions and all our freedoms will be gone as the TPP prosecute our countries for not forcing us to shop at Walmart and oil will be $120 a barrel and we’ll be back on horse and carts.
Fuck you, America. This is going to end horribly, but should be fun to watch on TV!
Fellow Interceptors!
please read:
The Paris Terror Attacks
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/11/16/pers-n16.html
Soon a farting at certain length and smell and sound would be considered giving away secrets that could be used by terrorists while our own taxpayer money buy them weapons, food and sustenance and a pocket money for 12 y.o. Yazidi girl slaves. Blaming acts of false flag/ black op terrorism on Snowden is preposterous and an absurd. But hey, were are all watching theater of absurd i.e. US imperial policies leading to war crimes and violations of international laws and norms.
US committed a war crime in Kunduz. Nothing less. And guess what silence. I am still waiting for a shred of evidence of Russian bombing of ten Hospitals in Syria, a lie widely proliferated in MSM.
And now another, tragic for ordinary people, 9/11 type media event in Paris responded to with primitive urge for bloody revenge.
French and US would not give Russians locations where ISIS targets are while they did not bomb them themselves. Now they are bombing something flying from somewhere? Turkey? I wonder what it is? Hospitals, civilians, Mosques and if they do it legally with Syrian and Russian permission.
Or it’s just a smoke and mirrors and the whole tragic false flag black op.
More on Syrian war update can be found:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/syrian-war-update/
Training and arming rebels in camps in both Turkey and Jordan by the US is never mentioned, let alone discussed, by MSM. Nice job!
Yahoo news: “Security officials say, Snowden disclosures make terrorists harder to track”
GODDAM SNOWDEN! Him and that Josh Fox running around like a pair of pinko commie bastards ruining everything! I say put fracking brime up their arses and watch them liquify! I mean, become healthier and more radiant with the life-empowering juices of our eco-friendly fracking glop. God Bless The National Socialist States of America! Seig Heil, Mr President!
#clownwashing
We know, thanks to Wikileaks, that regime change in Syria is a deep state policy. Bush to Obama.
Whatever the reason, dividing Iraq on sectarian lines (whether in the endless negotiations over how to stack their parliament, or as actual independence) was surely an idea that Americans should have known better than to do. I mean, the pivotal factor that delayed our Civil War and allowed it to come to some sort of end was that we had a small but significant number of iffy states that were unwilling to make a radical gesture in defense of slavery. Had we divided the whole country formally, in law, between a North and a South along a 51% line, then there would have been an irrevocable fracture and a more enduring war, and I think slower progress on the actual issue of ending slavery.
If the U.S. is going to go into states and impose occupation/interim governments and supervise the writing of new constitutions, it needs to do what it did in Germany and Japan, and just write them. And they should be patterned on the U.S. constitution with little creativity involved except whether a few of the later amendments (such as direct elections for Senate) might be wiser to leave out while the new country gets organized.
Right. The assumption is that rational actors “don’t know any better”. Despite plenty of evidence to the contrary, we’re to absorb this framing at face value. America became the most dominant imperial force in history through a series of mistakes and blunders. The Oopsie Daisy Empire.
An interesting perspective on postwar history. Should you ever read the Grundgesetz (German constitution) you would probably conclude that it was written by the Germans and not the Americans (and goddamn for sure not the Brits) because it is far more restrictive of government and protective of human rights than ours is. Moreover, the Germans and Japanese chose to implement parliamentary democracies, along the lines of those existing in the UK and France, instead of the truly unwieldy system we have here. So one big difference is that the Germans and Japanese were allowed considerable latitude in building their postwar governments. But the really big difference is that after World War 2 we had a denazification program that was applied to all but the obvious war criminals (albeit with some exceptions) as opposed to what was done in Iraq, which was to demonize everyone associated with the Baathist regime, and thereby providing the core of ISIS’ experienced combat leadership.
Good point – I was conflating the Frankfurt Documents and Grundgesetz and, to be honest, being pretty ignorant about the issue. I think I was mostly correct about the Allies having a more intrusive role in the process, though.
I think that in Iraq (far more than Germany, which didn’t have the same sort of regional divisions) it was important to set up a strong federal structure (as the Allies demanded in Germany). There had to be states that were part Sunni, part Shia for example, which had a regional identity of being mixed-religion in nature. They could have been leaders in setting an example for more peaceful coexistence, and led the bargaining at political horse-trading sessions meant to get a mutually acceptable president elected, for example.
I think where it all went wrong was when Jay Garner was fired. He promised elections in 90 days – we should have stuck to that. LOCAL elections in independent districts, to establish a set of local powers-that-be … perhaps a few Huey Longs among them. Then they could have sent delegates to bargain on some kind of federal leadership – it should have been one with reduced power though, a pre “interstate commerce clause” version of the U.S. federal government.
OMG – How do US officials manage such incredible self control when spouting such blatant hypocrisy that even they know must be nonsense. Is it training? Drugs? Something in the air?
One theory: the knowledge their audiences are as clueless as themselves. The producers of this daily dog’s breakfast share the same world views as the consumers. It seems more analogous to a kind of perpetual motion powered echo chamber of idiocy than some sinister conspiracy formed deep in the Ministry of Information’s bowlels. Every one gets to say and hear what they want, historical facts and reason be damned.
This is the only conclusion I could draw after working in the BBC News Online sausage factory from 2002 through 2005.
It is called a career with a salary and perks. Happens everywhere.
In a way, it is an example of Darwinianism working. In pretty much every organization, success (in terms of promotion) is due to the willingness to tell lies, and tell them believably. Some of the lies are small (like how you have ALL the skills listed as a prerequisite for that higher position), lots of them are polite (how much you respect/like/value everyone, even the ones who you rant about being idiots and bullies) and others political, and the further up the food chain of the biggest organizations around (multinational corporations, governments, and political parties) the more the lies become political ones, voiced with (apparently) complete conviction, and subject to instantaneous revision, even reversal, as needed.
yes, i believe there is a strong correlation with a person’s survival instincts, being an authoritarian (approx 25% of any population), and how they are used by psychopaths to dominate social/political discourse and actions…
*of course* it ‘makes sense’ that if you are a below-average nekkid ape, and you follow *whatever* a bigger, smarter, sleeker, well-fed, loud-mouthed nekkid apes does, well, maybe *your* chances of survival -if not thriving- go way up…
*and* -the corollary- if you are in the 1% or so of real psychopaths, maybe your chances of survival increase by having the 25% as followers…
as long as the 74% are fractionated, i guess the 1% gets away with it…
The Americans along with their Fawnies kill innocent HUMAN BEINGS with impunity in the Middle East, S.E.A. Africa and South America since before the 1st World War. Recently the Americans have started using robot killing machines. The obvious message is that these people that the US govt kills are not even worth the effort of sending troops to their country, just send the killing machines instead. I would myself become a suicide warrior in the face of such an enemy, wouldn’t anybody??
I think you have a point there. I’ve often thought that when Israelis exchanged many Arabs for just one Israeli the unsaid message sent is that one of our lives is worth many more of yours…
“How dumb do they think people are to count on them forgetting all of this?”
Not sure that question can be quantified or qualified, and I commend you for pointing out these facts. I’m afraid we’ll be taking a few giant steps backward in the fight against unconstitutional surveillance because of these attacks. “Boots on the ground” will soon be a distant memory as the chorus for all out war grows larger and much louder. What a world my children and grandchildren are inheriting where war is the inevitable answer to every problem. Speak up, people
So began the age of Freedom Fries.
You remind us in a serious tone, and did not call out my BS in another thread where I had incorrectly stated Bush and Blair’s ally Sarkozy was the French President in 2003.
Sincere apologies for criticizing your light hearted satire in the past, even if you did not notice.
No worries.
My goal is to annoy people in general; I wasn’t trying to annoy you in particular.
I almost primarily read TI to search out Mussolini’s tasty literary morsels – yum. not kidding.
Looking on the bright son-brother:
Mr Greenwald,
What a great read! Is it time to revisit your story about Snowden’s revelations about The NSA bugging the 2009 Copenhagen Climate Summit? Perhaps that’s another reason they’re trying to blame him now… How can anyone take the Obama and the US seriously at the upcoming talks in light of this recent history?
A deeper question: how CAN the talks remain meaningful in light of all the new bombs being dropped? Put another way, the war machine is gearing up, this isn’t a good time to negotiate global climate cooperation..
Peter, the worrying thing is already here – our governments are ALL complicit and ALL know what is happening. This is a global play for power by our power elite. Obama just spent the last couple of years travelling the world with his little party invites and pretty much everyone signed up. Governments now have the capabilities to:
1. Monitor ALL our digitised communications – emails, phone calls, text messages, web searches, internet activity, online shopping, banking transactions. This means it is no longer possible to organise against those in power, or to hide from them both physically and financially, if we wish to remain in the modern world.
2. Track our every movements when we carry cell phones or drive a vehicle with a registered number plate. Face recognition software also allows us to be tracked as we walk down the street
3. Suppress with Extreme Force – police forces are now armed like armies with highly-sophisticated weapons systems
4. Imprison and detain at will
5. Control all finances and banking
The Americans have said they will have trillions from oil fracking, but it will mean oil prices will have to soar and the Average Joe like us will have to foot the bill. We are NOT going to be happy when it happens!!! So we will need to be pacified, and Obama has offered these guys the chance to keep us in our places once and for all.
The Land of the Free is planning on making us all slaves to its corporations, TPP is just the start. I cannot even believe I am writing this for real sometimes!
I think global climate cooperation is OFF the table for good from a country prepared to make vast areas of its own country inhospitable to life from fracking toxins just so a small elite can be INSANELY rich.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for our political leaders to rush foward to stop them. Their faux-shame is a sham – they know they have won, and we are all fucked.
Paul Bremer’s an expert? Since when?
The post lightly edited for accuracy:
“Mr. Greenwald
Nothing demonstrates the absurd problem I have with thinking like my claim that Mr Cassidy credits the US war against Iraq for the Arab Spring. Did I even understand what I was reading? When does the remedial reading course start? Apparently not soon enough (at least for this idiot tapping on the keyboard, Mr. Greenwald). Of course I’m arguing a ridiculous straw man.
The US has been plotting “to destabilize the Middle East [including Syria and Iran] turn it upside down, make it under our control” since at least 2002 according to former NATO Commander General Wesley Clark. US client states Saudi Arabia and Turkey funded Islamists to assure that the Dara a’ protests became violent. The Assad dictatorship is nothing more sophisticated than a common, brutal police state of the kind often supported by the US. But Assad chose to disobey US orders and opposed the illegal US war on Iraq in which hundreds of thousands of people died. The invasion of Iraq “created the conditions in which a movement like ISIS could thrive” – even Tony Blair admits that.
Random words will now be generated:
Sectarian divide. . .Islam for over a thousand years. . .Columbus. . .Shiites. . . Saddam’s reign of terror. . .al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood and many Sunni fundamentalists living in the greater Middle East. . .Islamists as a part of the Arab Spring was predictable.
Some more randomness: AQI (ISIS).. .Iran and Saudi Arabia, Shia and Sunni, respectively. Syria and Iraq. . .Iran and Saudi Arabia. . .Islamists. . .Maliki government. . .The US had turned Sunni fighters against AQI by protecting Sunni interests. . .The liberated Shia have themselves to blame. . .
Where does this word-salad really mean? It means I’m a classic jingoist-American supporter of any dictatorship which the US government and mainstream media tell me to support. In doing so, I ignore the recent “history” of what the US and its clients have done: the brutal attack and murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians; the torture at prisons and “black sites”; the executions by drones; the targeting of weddings, funerals, and hospitals; the use of cluster bombs, charges of war crimes against the Obama regime. I then condemn Assad for the very same brutal acts of terror directed at a civilian population that I ignore when done repeatedly and on a much greater scale by the US and its clients. Is there any wonder that I really have no credibility?
Finally, being the numb nut (that I am), I support what I’m told. I’m not joking. At what point do I believe that the Obama regime – which shares much of the responsibility for the current war in Syria and wars elsewhere – should be held accountable for the US regime’s brutal murder and oppression of so many innocent civilians? Ha. Get real.
I’m a total idiot. The US shares much of the responsibility for the the “genesis” of ISIS and the wars and humanitarian disasters spreading throughout the ME.
I am totally fucking ridiculous, Glenn.”
Doc, don’t stay away so long in-between your Craig translations. Your versions are worth reading.
I thought Craig Summers sold edible underwear, what a dolt it turns out I am!
I really hope one of the wankers that regularly writes in on here is Sam Harris in disguise… Could be Craig!
Thank you Mona;
CraigSummers needs help with just about every post, but I can’t always be here for him: sometimes life, love, or the answering service calls.
Obama’s spokesman was asked a few times on the talk shows if Obama was going to use NATO’s aticle 5. Article five was used only once before in history – Dubya on 9/11…
The attacks (in Egypt, Lebanon,Iraq and France ) look like state sponsored terror, but which State? Hundreds of ISIS members have come back to France on R&R: https://youtu.be/vs1G9ROrlk8?t=184
Operation GLADIO was used in the 1970’s and 80’s to nudge the Europeans.
GLENN: “blaming Snowden literally as the bodies still lay on the streets of Paris. At first, the tawdry exploiters were the likes of crazed ex-intelligence officials
Counter-terror experts like Paul Bremmer blamed the ‘new Perl Harbor’ on the Church Committee’s on 9/11/2001: https://youtu.be/9ma8-zZssg0
Bremmer’s holding up well considering he had just lost 300 co-workers.
https://youtu.be/j2pW6WZhZrQ
https://youtu.be/ocSww75NeGU
In response to such criticism, the chief counsel of the committee, Frederick A.O. Schwarz Jr., retorted with a book co-authored by Aziz Z. Huq, denouncing the Bush administration’s use of 9/11 to make “monarchist claims” that are “unprecedented on this side of the North Atlantic”
He explained everything: https://youtu.be/YCBOJ2Jruk4?t=90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkp-4sm5Ypc#t=150
Paul Bremer’s an expert? Seriously?
Well, I thought the viceroy’s cowboy boots were authoritative and credible.
Fine article. Some other points:
1) Snowden would not have been motivated to divulge NSA secrets had the NSA not been spying on innocent American citizens and violating the constitution. In other words, the NSA created the conditions that led to Snowden an the other leakers.
2) The NSA is being rendered completely ineffective due to the overwhelming amounts of digital data they are now receiving. Surely 99.9% of what they are collecting is useless data, making it nearly impossible to identify what’s truly important to defend the nation.
3) Rather than fixing the 2 fundamental problems mentioned above, the government is now on a mission to develop software that watches all federal employees and contractors 24×7. Their objective is to catch any inside leakers. Meanwhile, the fundamental problems remain. Only the federal government could be this foolish and blind.
1+2+3 = America’s Elite wants its oil trillions from fracking the Appalachians and the Midwest into a toxic soup, then charging the entire world a fortune to pay for it, then taking their countries to court and sending “the jihadis” round when they resist, and snoop through and control all digital communications.
Basic Math for anyone paying attention. Join the dots and it forms a huge American swastika-spangled banner flying over the globe.
Jenna reported this a while back: The intelligence community’s top lawyer, Robert S. Litt, told colleagues in an August email obtained by the Washington Post that Congressional support for anti-encryption legislation “could turn in the event of a terrorist attack or criminal event where strong encryption can be shown to have hindered law enforcement.”
It will be interesting to see what happens next in the U.S. because of the attacks in Paris.
I’d like to quote George Washington in his farewell address: “But [The U.S.] Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people [of the U.S.] is sacredly obligatory upon all.”
He was stressing that it is a sacred obligation for the U.S. government to obey the Constitution. He seemed to be concerned with despotism and tyranny under any form of government.
I believe in order to satisfy this whole debate we should vote on having the 4th removed from the bill of rights – if everyone agrees, then problem solved… right?
When I met my very educated girl friend, I was astonished to learn she did not know who Snowden was. Or, for that matter Glenn, who you are. How could this be? I followed the unfolding of the saga very closely. Of course, I was not surprised by any thing you reported. I was surprised that it was being reported at all.
The American people were just comfortable enough and distracted enough not to care. The facts your reporting were a flash on a screen they never saw. And if they did… They’ve long forgotten. Truly sad.
@Reddick –
You really struck some chords here. The American people are indeed distracted and have VERY short attention spans. There was a good article I got from one mailing list: “The Crisis of Now” I may not agree with all the particular details he mentions, but overall I find what he says rings true:
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/the_crisis_of_the_now_distracted_and_diverted_from_the_ever_encroachin
This also reminds me of the famous cousin I always mention here. She’s well-educated and intelligent (of course!) and generally quite Liberal. But on surveillance (she first began by calling Snowden a narcissist and a traitor; tried to give her some other views and gave her some reading material, too; don’t know if she’s softened at all – YET…) But I wonder. The last time we had a phone conversation that touched on surveillance, her remark was basically: “I have more important personal things to worry about than surveillance.” Can’t remember exactly what I said in reply but I do have a thought for that line:
Of course we have to be concerned with our personal lives and families. But can’t we spare even a thought to the kind of world that’s taking shape. Shouldn’t we be concerned to at least some degree with larger issues? I maintain we should.
Reddick, they will care when oil is $120 a barrel and the Appalachians are a toxic wasteland. Then they will stand up and…
…Get smashed in the face by the riot police they paid for. Then go home and watch Breaking Bad again on Netflix.
Oops! Should’ve listened to Ed 2 years ago, and Josh Fox 5 years ago, and all the people that said the Iraq war was wrong 12 years ago, and all the people that said America brought 9/11 on itself 14 years ago, and all the people who have been fighting corporate globalism for decades, and every guy who burned an American flag and cursed American Imperialism since the end of WWII…
Glenn is just one in a long line of People The American Electorate Choose To Ignore. It is called COMPLICITY IN MURDER AND HATRED FOR A DECENT SALARY and PERKS. Those will be gone soon enough though.
It is why the rest of the World hates you. And trust me, we do.
More than one (ex) american friend with multiple advanced degrees has said to me, verbatim:
“Why should I worry? I’m an American!”
Bravo Zulo! as always Glenn.
https://twitter.com/DanaPerino/status/665370944660197376
Did you read that Snowden, Dana Perino wants to forget about you. What did you do to this smart girl Edward?
Here you go… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AJ-wcTYL_0
I’ve been told the leaders of the state are reading everything online. Do you think they realize they are being meta data archived or are they just plain fucking stupid?
The interesting thing with the Power Elite putting their foot on the heads of the masses is that, sure, we are all easily discernable and identifiable as such (jeez, I don’t even have a bank account and beggars give ME money, I am that poor!), BUT there are many who want to be the Power Elite with better credentials, and this is going to cause an ALMIGHTY bun fight. You know, like an ex-gangster and property tycoon calling an ex- President a failure for allowing 9/11 on his watch directly to his brother! I mean, only in America!
Imagine Trump vs Putin, WW3 looms, the sweat is pouring down Our Donald’s face with the tension, and all the glue holding his wig on melts and his Persian rug slips down over his eyes at the crucial moment.
The future of Humantiy could depend on Topstick Toupee Tape. Scary days indeed!
This is the First Article I’ve read since the Paris Attack I have not even seen any footage. All I know is HATE BREEDS HATE. We the people of the Planet need to Turn off the TV and Speak up. UNITE Remember this The Top 1 % Of the People who have Billions Do not care what color of your skin or religion. Its all about $$ Solo. When you know Were not being told the Truth So. Be Kind ALL THE TIME. .Do random act of kindness everyday ,Do selfless acts every chance you get And LIVE from the Heart FREE like a 3 year old Live full of wonder and amazement .Ah. Peace take care of who’s ever in front of you. WAR WHAT IS IT GOOD for???
@June –
To answer your last question: “Absolutely nothing… say it again!” Great song and I loved your rant, too.
International Business Times picks up Glenn’s story. More on failures to coordinate among police agencies.
http://www.ibtimes.com/paris-terror-attack-intelligence-failure-not-snowdens-fault-break-down-communication-2185255
PGP – Pretty Good Privacy (1991) was when things really started in my mind.
MIT-CSAIL-TR-2015-026 July 6, 2015
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA 02139 USA — http://www.csail.mit.edu
Keys Under Doormats:
Mandating insecurity by requiring government access to all
data and communications
___________________________________________________________________
Harold Abelson, Ross Anderson, Steven M. Bellovin, Josh Benaloh, Matt Blaze,
Whitfield Diffie, John Gilmore, Matthew Green, Susan Landau, Peter G. Neumann,
Ronald L. Rivest, Jeffrey I. Schiller, Bruce Schneier, Michael Specter, Daniel J. Weitzner
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/97690/MIT-CSAIL-TR-2015-026.pdf?sequence=8
Mr. Greenwald
Nothing describes the absurd obsession with opposing US policy at all costs like this quote from John Cassidy:
“…..By destroying the Iraqi state and setting off reverberations across the region that, ultimately, led to a civil war in Syria, the 2003 invasion created the conditions in which a movement like ISIS could thrive. And, by turning public opinion in the United States and other Western countries against anything that even suggests a prolonged military involvement in the Middle East, the war effectively precluded the possibility of a large-scale multinational effort to smash the self-styled caliphate…..”
Did John even think about what he was writing? In other words, one of the “reverberations” of the invasion of Iraq was the Arab Spring. When does the radical left oppose democracy movements? Apparently when the repercussions of the US invasion of Iraq included a democracy movement which spread throughout the Middle East (at least according to this idiot at the New Yorker who you quoted Mr. Greenwald). The civil war in Syria began as a peaceful protest for more political rights in the Assad dictatorship which is nothing more sophisticated than a common, brutal police state in the mold of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. Assad chose to crush the democracy movement directly leading to a war in which over 250,000 people have died. The US had absolutely nothing to do with the choice of Assad to stamp out the peaceful protests in the same mold as the Hama massacre in 1982. Assad gambled, but clearly miscalculated. If Cassidy really believes the US started the Arab Spring, how could someone who is supposedly liberal oppose that result – especially in Syria where peaceful protests were crushed?
I would also heavily dispute Cassidy’s (and your) suggestion that the invasion of Iraq “created the conditions in which a movement like ISIS could thrive”. This is a classic simplification of a complex issue unique to the Middle East. Cassidy – exactly like you, Glenn – twists and simplifies all of the world’s ills to US policies (Jon Schwarz takes this all the way back to 1492). First of all, the sectarian divide has existed in Islam for over a thousand years (yes, before Columbus Jon). Shiites have always been treated as second class citizens under Sunni rule (and, of course, much worse during Saddam’s reign of terror). Saddam Hussein was part and parcel to exacerbating the sectarian divide during his three decade rule. Additionally, the Islamists which include al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood and many Sunni fundamentalists living in the greater Middle East have been a part of the oppressed class feared by authoritarian rulers for decades (as in Egypt with the MB). The rise of the Islamists as a part of the Arab Spring was predictable.
In addition, support for the rise of AQI (ISIS) in Iraq came from the Arab states vying for regional supremacy between Iran and Saudi Arabia, Shia and Sunni, respectively. Syria and Iraq are a part of the regional conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia. The void the Islamists filled in Iraq was directly the result of Sunni alienation from the Maliki government – a situation which resulted from the US being kicked out of Iraq. The US had turned Sunni fighters against AQI by protecting Sunni interests in the Shia-dominated government. The liberated Shia have themselves to blame for that result.
Cassidy in a classic anti-American support of a dictator (which the US opposes) praised Assad for preserving “history” in his 2015 article:
“……….So dedicated was Assad to his mission of preserving his city’s history that, according to a report in the Times, he had named a daughter after Queen Zenobia, who ruled Palmyra in the third century A.D……….”
In doing so, Cassidy ignored the recent “history” of the conflict in Syria; the brutal attack and murder of protesters; the torture; the executions; and the use of Chlorine gas, barrel bombs, chemical weapons and charges of war crimes against the Assad regime. He then condemned ISIS for the very same brutal acts of terror directed at a civilian population that he ignored when praising Assad. Is there any wonder that the radical left really has no credibility?
Finally, this numb nut (that you quoted) apparently supported a multinational effort to crush ISIS. Is he joking? At what point does Cassidy believe that the Assad regime – solely responsible for the current war in Syria – should be held accountable for the regime’s brutal response to peaceful protesters?
Cassidy is a total idiot – and the US is clearly not responsible for the civil war in Syria, or the “genesis” of ISIS. That is totally fucking ridiculous, Glenn.
@CraigSummers
My understanding is that it was not the USG or its efforts that initiated the Arab Spring, but Wikileaks and Bradley (Chelsea) Manning’s release of documents that showed the workings of repression in some of those countries that set off the revolts of the oppressed citizens.
While the Bush Vulcans did want to overthrow many of the countries now in turmoil, it was not to “free” the people, as we see in Egypt that the dictators are back in full charge again, executing their opposition (democratically elected, even if not the USG choice) with the full support of the USG (money and weapons). Sometimes dictators, who the US uses until they are no longer useful, are able to maintain stability in their country, as in the case of Saddam and Iraq, so the removal of Saddam, although maybe well intentioned (and I doubt that, it was to steal their oil), did unleash total chaos in the country, and the architects and enablers of that war crime should by all rights end up in the International Court to be tried for their supreme crime of a war of aggression.
The Iraqis had an educated country with a modern infrastructure. Now they have a total wreck of a country, the infrastructure having been deliberately destroyed by the US military (with all those “rebuilding” contracts fraudulently handed out and paid for, but never completed) polluted by depleted uranium weapons, and with 4 million or them dead, injured and spread across the ME.
And for US presidential candidates we have the brother of the decider, one Jeb! Bush, who was one of the Vulcans, and on the Dem side, because the two major corrupt corporate parties are so different from each other, we have the former SecState Clinton, who “cares about woman and children” so much, that she voted for a shock and awe war on them. Back in the 60’s we progressive hippies had a motto, “US Out Of Everywhere”. That would be the best solution for the rest of the world.
“…….My understanding is that it was not the USG or its efforts that initiated the Arab Spring, but Wikileaks and Bradley (Chelsea) Manning’s release of documents that showed the workings of repression in some of those countries that set off the revolts of the oppressed citizens…..”
No one loves the left like the left. I never really said the US government initiated the Arab Spring. It was the quote from John Cassidy which implied as much because he blamed the Syrian civil war on the invasion of Iraq. Ultimately, it was Assad’s reaction to a political rights movement in Syria that led to the civil war. We are left to wonder why Greenwald would quote such an idiotic statement on so many levels.
“……Sometimes dictators, who the US uses until they are no longer useful, are able to maintain stability in their country, as in the case of Saddam and Iraq, so the removal of Saddam, although maybe well intentioned (and I doubt that, it was to steal their oil), did unleash total chaos in the country, and the architects and enablers of that war crime should by all rights end up in the International Court to be tried for their supreme crime of a war of aggression…..”
Of course it did. Just as there was total chaos in South Korea. However, as I explained above, the Shia had every chance to bring the Sunni population into the government but chose not to. You cannot alienate the population you just removed from power and expect peace. However, the Shia and Kurds were liberated (at great cost). The sectarian violence is a reflection of the religion of Islam, a minority Sunni population ruling over the majority Shiites, the Saudi-Iran rivalry and the Iraq invasion.
“….Back in the 60’s we progressive hippies had a motto, “US Out Of Everywhere”. That would be the best solution for the rest of the world…..”
Yea. That worked really well in Syria and Ukraine, right?
I agree and am aware that the Iraq PM shut the Shia out, and that is how it’s been going on with them for over a thousand years. But you don’t address the phony war of aggression, based on WMD that weren’t there, as if the USG under the Vulcans was doing the right thing.
As far as Syria goes, it looks like the US did everything wrong there in maybe arming the wrong people (I doubt that they know who they really armed) but would you advise us to get involved in a civil war? That’s always the craziest idea. If we had stayed out of Iraq, then Syria and Daesh might not be up for discussion now.
As for Ukraine, sorry, but I don’t believe all the propaganda from the MSWM (that’s main stream whore media). Ukraine was part of Russia until Nikita Khrushchev let them go independent, and as it has a long and deep history, I cannot say I understand all of the back and forth of the country and it’s territory over the centuries. In retrospect, it might have been too generous a move on his part. But the aim of the US, and NATO, is to go right up to Russia’s borders, even though a past president said we wouldn’t (not sure if in was Poppy Bush, Clinton, or both). You probably only read Fox News, but I recommend this interview with the man who ended the USSR (not Saint Reagan the traitor, he’s very dead):
https://www.rt.com/shows/sophieco/215851-gorbachev-us-ukraine-war/
“The Ukrainian issue has intensified the tension that existed between the West and Russia: now, another Cold War is possibly lurking on the horizon. Are we to witness another stand-off – or will it be averted? The relations between Russia and the West seem to be stuck at dead-end, so is there hope common ground will emerge between the two? We ask these questions to the man who prides himself on ending the Cold War, the last leader of the Soviet Union Mikhail Gorbachev, on Sophie&Co today.”
BTW, I find RT a lot more in depth and even handed than any of the US major media outlets, like CNN, NBC, CBS and now, even PBS. The propaganda from them is so obvious, I don’t waste my time. But apparently, you have time to spare.
I can’t say for sure what the truth is about the Ukraine situation, but I can say one thing for sure. The USG always lies, about everything. That has been my experience since since I was 17 years old and they wanted to send me to Viet Nam. When I went to join the Sir Force, they lied about giving me my choice of duty, which was the deal back then. So I told them, no thanks. And it has been all lies since; at least I give them marks for consistency. I voted for Kerry and Obama. I regret those votes more than any others I ever made. And I’ll never be voting for a national Dem candidate again unless there is a drastic change with that party. And of course, not for a Rethug, ever.
Mass Independent
“……But you don’t address the phony war of aggression, based on WMD that weren’t there, as if the USG under the Vulcans was doing the right thing…..”
Nothing to address. I supported the invasion for regime change (the real reason for the invasion) – and I still do. The Shia and Kurds were liberated, and the world was rid of a dictator responsible for the deaths of perhaps 2-3 million people. He also used WMDs on the Kurds and Iranians – and sponsored terror against Israel. As his army was being removed from Kuwait, he launched missiles capable of carrying chemical weapons into Israel. Additionally, he was a well known brutal dictator who ruled over a police state. Good riddance Saddam!
“……As far as Syria goes, it looks like the US did everything wrong there in maybe arming the wrong people (I doubt that they know who they really armed) but would you advise us to get involved in a civil war?…..”
No – and the US was nearly absent from the conflict until recently despite the lies that continue to surface from left wing bloggers.
“……As for Ukraine, sorry, but I don’t believe all the propaganda from the MSWM (that’s main stream whore media). Ukraine was part of Russia until Nikita Khrushchev let them go independent, and as it has a long and deep history, I cannot say I understand all of the back and forth of the country and it’s territory over the centuries……”
It’s irrelevant. Russia recognized the borders of Ukraine signed at the Budapest Memorandum on Security Services (1994).
“……The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan…..”
The borders of Ukraine are recognized internationally. The annexation of the Crimean Peninsula was entirely illegal and immoral – and the referendum was fraudulent. Currently, Russian troops are illegally on the ground in eastern Ukraine. There have been four times more casualties in the Ukraine war than Gaza – and a Russian missile brought down the civilian airline which probably originated from the separatist rebels (or Russian territory). Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story though. If the US annexed Guantanamo Bay, you would be having a fit.
“……BTW, I find RT a lot more in depth and even handed than any of the US major media outlets, like CNN, NBC, CBS and now, even PBS. The propaganda from them is so obvious, I don’t waste my time. But apparently, you have time to spare…..”
Such a classic far left wing position. State sponsored Russian Television is really credible – possibly as credible as the Russian state-sponsored doping by the Russian Olympic team perhaps? If you had just said that you don’t believe any of the media outlets from the US and Russia, you might have some credibility. Now you have none.
Thanks.
There are many issues you raise that are, to say the least, contentious, so I’ll limit myself to this:
“……As far as Syria goes, it looks like the US did everything wrong there in maybe arming the wrong people (I doubt that they know who they really armed) but would you advise us to get involved in a civil war?…..”
No – and the US was nearly absent from the conflict until recently despite the lies that continue to surface from left wing bloggers.”
“Nearly absent”? What does that mean? That the US had no involvement in Syria until some people started researching what was going on there? That’s what it sounds like to me – a cover-up.
Bashar al-Assad was a “darling” of the West in 2002. In the period 2002-2003, he started selling Syrian oil in Euros, instead of $USD. He vetoed a pipeline that served US interests, rather than Russian (allied to Syria) interests. In 2003 he supported Iraq and didn’t back the US-led invasion.
In 2006, the US government, initially through the US charge-d’affaires in Damascus of the time, Roebuck, proposed methods of destabilising the Syrian government. These have come to pass, if we take as read much of the intervening history. The US, and/or its allies in the West and in the Middle East, have directly or indirectly financed, armed and trained not only Islamic State, but also Al-Qaeda and many of the “moderate” rebels (of which there are some 40 different groups fighting in Syria and Iraq, many of which are mercenary foreign jihadists). Our “allies” in the Middle East on the Arab side are no better than Assad and some are infinitely worse – the Al-Sauds, for example. Neither is Israel immune from criticism in all this. Which brings me to my next point…
Incidentally, what is it with Americans and geography? Iraq was largely in response to 9/11. You are doubtless aware that most of the 9/11 perps were Saudi citizens? Yet you attack an Iraq (a former client of the US)? Simply amazing…
when you kill more people than you provide “democracy” to.
why are you so not very bright? keep a buckshot pellet in your mouth or something?
.
From the horse’s mouth to the horse’ arse, the US is responsible Craig
https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html
Craig is probably not allowed to read Wikileaks cables.
That’s a joke tom. Anyone who has to dig through 2006 Wikileaks documents looking for reasons for the civil war in Syria is ignoring the real cause – even as it reaches up and bites you in the ass. Blame the US all you want, but that left wing lie won’t fly – ever.
Craig, simply quoting a repentant (far too late) Tony Blair suffices as response to your drivel:
Well of course, there are “elements of truth” in that Mona. No one has denied that. There are elements of truth that the Iraq invasion led to the sectarian violence in Iraq also, but the underlying reasons are far more complicated than the simplistic: the US is at fault for the ills of the entire world. This is the classic propaganda promoted by radical leftists like Greenwald – and you Mona.
Craig translated: “Well of course it’s true that invading Iraq is the principal cause of the rise of Isis, but blah blah, radical leftists, propaganda, Greenwald, derp, blah, more derp, the entire world, hoo-ha, Mona, did I mention leftists?”
Nothing to say in your response?
Thanks Mona
To argue with a man the has renounced the use of logic and reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
Yea, you are right. Maybe I should just quit responding to Mona…..
Craig’s brain is so addled by Zionism and authoritarianism that he thinks the name “Mona” is a man’s.
Oh come on Mona. I know exactly who Bif was referring to. He just made an innocent mistake.
ISIS has about 50,000 fighters (depending on who you believe), the most effective of which are former Iraqi soldiers. It is instructive to compare:
1991 Iraq had about 1,000,000 fighters; the war lasted about 100 hours.
2003 Iraq had about 400,000 fighters; the invasion phase lasted 21 days.
2015 ISIS has about 50,000 fighters; the war has continued for over a year.
Two conclusions are possible: (1) As the number of Iraqi fighters diminishes, it gets harder and harder to beat them, or (2) The US isn’t trying very hard.
Without going into a long explanation, (2) is more likely. Basically, the US hasn’t really wanted to defeat ISIS, since that would give the upper hand to Assad in Syria. The Turks, who are also part of the coalition to defeat ISIS, have been helping them every chance they get, since they see them as a useful counter to the Kurds. The Saudis, who are also part of the coalition to defeat ISIS, are actually sympathetic to them ideologically, and see them as a useful counter to the Iraqi government and Iran (their main regional rival).
Meanwhile ISIS itself has been desperately trying to create some real enemies. They have bombed a Russian jet, attacked a Hezbollah controlled area in Lebanon and now have attacked France. If the coalition to defeat ISIS would simply agree to step aside, ISIS would be finished in about a week.
Excellent!
Seems what we have is a religious war between Sunni and Shiite Islam — albeit with a large supporting cast — and perhaps the coalition should step aside and let more interested parties like, oh, Iran put in their oar. Saudi proxies on one side, Iran and its proxies on the other, the Western powers standing clear, might be a convenient scenario.
Oh, and an inconvenient question: just how many Chechen fighters from the former Soviet Union are coming and going to Syria, anyway?
Jeez you are a moron. We are having an AMERICAN and SAUDI war against RUSSIAN-BACKED Shiite governments of Syria and Iran, along with their political allies. The only religion truly at work is the worshipping of the PetroDollar by the American government. Those bearded muppets shooting up Paris are just poor dumb saps brainfried into insanity by your government’s spooky agents in the region. Please, find something else to do or wise up quick.
I have the impression that Fox News is broadcasting from some parallel universe, maybe the one in which Charles III is king and conservatives look back to the presidency of Thomas E. Dewey rather than that cowboy actor Reagan.
Don’t know what you mean by war against them in Syria by the US and allies in 2015. There is no such thing, why would they kill there own proxy army?
Did you read that in the newspapers Benito? You should know better with more than 100 years experience in these matters. Maybe it’s about time you get a pair of glasses.
No, I don’t believe about the 50,000, maybe woman, children, goats and chickens included
50,000 is just the goal of ISIS’s (state) supporters (of terrorism), who have thus far managed to keep ISIS growing and well-supplied with arms and vehicles.
I am not convinced at this time that “ISIS” took down that Russian passenger jet:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article189255.html
The invasion of Iraq by Bush and Blair using manufactured intelligence is the direct cause of the rise of Daesh. Bush and Blair should be on trial for these deaths and many others.
But please don’t inadvertently give Daesh statehood by using their preferred name of ISIL, or ISIS, for they are just criminal, murderous terrorists, nothing more. They are not a state and should not be treated like a state. They are not an existential threat to our states. Treat them like you treat the mafia. Spy on them by all means, but not on the rest of us. Kill them for all I care, but explain after why they couldn’t be brought to trial to spill their guts in a more meaningful way.
????ow is it that fascist state officials can so blatantly lie to the public and think we’re all too stupid to realize we’re being lied to?
Well the scare tactics work. Rational, thinking people will get behind the government lies, because that is what the mass media feeds them, and especially have after such a brutal attack on their open civilization.
It’s working for the ones who are making the most money off the terrorist threat, that is former officials of the NSA-CIA-FBI, who are now “consultants,” and the armament manufacturers. I thought it was so hypocritical of Hillary Clinton to push he wanting gun control when as SecState she was shilling for those US war machine and armament makers. Peace here, but not over there.
As the General said in the interview, the USG “continues with conflict instead of solutions”. Because conflict is profitable.
Well said. In spite of the majority of citizens sick of these illegal wars, we plunge on into the “the deep river”, ala Vietnam. The fact of the matter is, in my opinion is that ISIL is a well coordinated unknown nation without boundaries that has all of the systems in place to perform as a legitimate country. This is not rag tag like al-Qaida or the Taliban. The chickens are coming home to roost after more than a century of American Hegemony. Which country is next to feel ISIL’s wrath….. any guesses?
Unfortunately, it could be the US, and I don’t say that lightly, because for a number of years I would be at the Boston Marathon. A friend of mine was the first designer of those racing wheelchairs, and he did it for free because so many of the users were Vets, and he was a retired Air Force Lt. Colonel and all around good guy and bike nut. But the Daesh is fighting asymmetrical war, and will go after targets of opportunity. With AK-47’s becoming as common as iPhones, due to our 2nd Amendment nuts needing penises and the NRA backing them, it will become more and more dangerous here. A friend of mine said many years ago that he was happy to be living in rural NH, as terrorists will go after urban areas, because that is where the targets are. When you have insiders with knowledge of a city, as we saw in Paris, they went after a crowded concert hall and sports stadium, as well as just machine gunning restaurants in a crowded night life district, then it is going to be hard to protect against. Of course here, mix automatic high capacity weapons with mental illness and FBI manufactured stings and we have the environment to finish the police state. “Collect it all” won’t work as they can’t process it all, and even if they could, I’m pretty sure it is about control of the population, not protection of the population. The future for democracy, rule of law and living by the principles of the Founding Fathers (except the slave and property owning stuff) looks grim.
Well, the chances that it will be Canada just got a whole lot less a month ago when we turfed our war mongering Conservative government and it’s leader that never missed a chance to diss the Arabs. The incoming Party has already issued the order to pull our combat planes and combat trainers out. Ours is now to be a humanitarian operation only. Hopefully, we don’t set up a hospital that annoys the Americans.
People who do not care to know enough history to resist absurd USG lies are not rational thinkers.
The propaganda and cultural conditioning is thick, many are busy just surviving, etc. I spent time this weekend with a friend who is a retired State Dept embassy electronic security expert, and he is very naive about the USG; trusts them and was well paid when he worked for them, good pension, etc. I asked him why he wasn’t more aware, and he admitted that he didn’t bother thinking about it, with all the other stuff going on in his life. I give them a pass and try to direct them to resources to educate them if they are interested. He borrowed two books from another friend of ours today on the Viet Name war Phoenix program, and the 9-11 WTC collapses. He’s trying. But not trying does not make them NOT rational thinkers, they just haven’t made the effort.
I have a hard time sympathizing with Americans being too busy™
I grew up, sort of, in Texas where the propaganda is BIG, had it too easy early on, but soon found myself struggling to get by like everyone else. I continue to do so under torture. Literally. My average brain was able to make time to read plenty about the Vietnam War, including The Pentagon Papers (containg documents related to the fortified hamlets program you mentioned) before I was twenty, followed by observations of J. Carter shipping “advisors” to El Salvador, and reading accounts of the ’53 coup and what The Shah had been up to while watching frat boys at UT snarl “free our people!” at the random Persian student, which just made me more and more hungry to learn about the glorious post WW II history that had given me goose bumps in my ’68 second grade class while pledging allegiance and singing America The Beautiful and all that. It seemed pretty damn interesting and important to me, and I resented insults for being curious about the history of other civilizations and matters having no relevance to the insulters’ private lives. Yeah, it’s personal.
Between the events described in The Pentagon Papers and today, several million people have been butchered by the too busy to give a shit set, which has yet to lift a finger to convince anyone they are rational, decent human beings. Not making an effort is no excuse and I take more than slight offense at being stalked since before 2001, physically tortured on a number of occaisions since 2001, being blacklisted/blocked from jobs here in Brazil, and having ditched relatives in Texas pile on with death threats and collaboration with the stalk & torture goons.
Not trying does make them NOT rational thinkers and the carnage is the evidence. The murdered were human beings — more than I can say about the murderers. My opinion can still change, but the onus is not on me to be more forgiving while they remain stubbornly clueless.
Did I say it was personal yet?
Because most people are, in your word, “stupid”. This isn’t to claim they lack intellect, but they’re far too busy with their time trying to keep a roof over their heads, keep a job, or go shopping for the latest whizz-bang gadget. To the extent they don’t keep themselves informed – yes, they are “stupid”. But look at the choices at election times. The USA has some….er…”unique” candidates on both sides of the spectrum, but if I was an American, would I vote for them? No way! As an Aussie, the only way I’ll vote is if there is a decent Independent candidate. It’s the only way to break the two party duopoly. In the meantime, we get the governments we deserve and the peoples’ failure to act now, will one day in the not-too-distant future, come back to haunt them.
The media is also to blame for (1) reporting lies without correction or substantiation and (2) failing to report news – full stop. More of our “serious” media read like entertainment magazines – news, fully analysed, backed up with facts, is like searching for gold these days. I find I have to read at least two Aussie media, plus Israeli, Arab, Russian, Iranian, British and US media, just to keep up with WTF is happening in our world.
More importantly, even, all this discussion of surveillance distracts from the fact that the most draconian surveillance and security will _never_ prevent determined people from killing others. Surveillance is a very inadequate stop-gap, while our leaders pointedly ignore the actual solution.
The only way to prevent such attacks is to stop provoking them, stop glorifying them, and stop escalating them. If the US had expressed grief and pursued legal channels after the September 11 attacks, rather than blowing half the Middle East to smithereens in a frenzy of revenge, the world would be a much safer place today. Hollande’s calls for “pitiless” revenge fill me with dread.
As I watched the WTC twin towers come down live on cable TV, I did not feel anger, or a want for revenge. Because I was aware of what the US has done, and continues to do, around the world. And George W. Bush’s popularity did not move one one thousandths of a percentage point upward in me. Not then, not latter. If anything, it went down quickly as I watched the war being revved up.
I saw blow back, and I saw that they, who I assumed were terrorists, had their own pilots, as I knew most commercial pilots are ex-military, and that they would never be coerced into flying a plane load of passengers into a building. But I didn’t feel any anger, just shock and grief. I now believe after reading Rebekah Roth, that the planes were possibly not commercial passenger jets, but modified, remote controlled drones, for effect. I immediately thought that the collapses were controlled demolitions of some sort.
So the calls for revenge felt foreign, as did Hollande’s, because terrorist attacks are not completely random. Don’t go for revenge, respond for safety, and do it wisely, if that can be done. I’m all for ending Daesh, as well as relations with Saudi Arabia, Egypt and any other medieval client state of the USG.
Also, Israel. A country that has brought us close to nuclear war, for no good reason. Time to let them go free on their own.
I see the usual suspects from the “Hysterical Committee” have taken center stage, to play their part, verbatim, of course. John Miller, Mike Morrell & Mike Rogers, Juan Zarate, Bill Bratton, Evan Kohlmann & Lindsey Graham with Peter King leading the charge, as always.
Blowing everyone else out of the water w/another kick ass article. Thanks Glenn.
Lindsey heading back to rehab again… http://goo.gl/944x0G
Operating under Rahm’s rule that a good crisis shouldn’t be wasted, “Intelligence officials” are explaining to the NYY how the Paris terrorists used “-encryption technologies (such as WhatsApp) to hide their planning.
So predictable.
What is going on–a bunch of comments are disappearing or not posting in the first instance?
And yet America DID create ISIS, and not only allows it to exist but helps it to exist by allowing the House of Saud and the House of Al-Thani to continue to do business as usual, giving them weapons and other “aid” that these two families funnel directly to ISIS and other terrorist projects that they are running.
That you are either super thick and don’t understand, are too scared and unwilling to understand or more likely a paid hack sent here to sow discord and uncertainty is no no consequence.
I think scared, thick, paid hack sums it up, and they still define the narrative for US voters.
The mysterious case of the dissapearing comments.
Either my mind has gone to mush (wouldn’t be the first time) or a lot of comments were just were deleted.
A simple “this comment and or replies have been deleted ” label would be a fair enough acknowledgemnet of procedings.
apologies if someone already posted this:
“Paulie hated phones. He wouldn’t have one in his house. He got all his calls second hand. Then you’d have to call the people back. There were guys, that’s all they did all day, was take care of Paulie’s calls.
For a guy who moved all day long Paulie didn’t talk to people. With union problems or a beef in the numbers only the top guys spoke with Paulie about the problem. Everything was one-on-one. Paulie hated conferences. He didn’t want anyone hearing what he said or anyone listening to what he was being told.”
so apparently snowden was advising the mob in the 70s? he really is a funny guy!
i also noticed the snowden idiocy within hours of the attacks; on cnn some ex-spook actually said “you can tell these guys have read their snowden!”
always nice of people to forward their agendas on the backs of bodies that aren’t even cold yet. also the same selective outrage and mourning from the same people who ignored or outright enjoyed the bombings in lebanon “in a “hezbollah stronghold” no less!) and the downing of the russian airliner. some classy fuckers we’re dealing with here.
Well here’s an idea, just putting it out there but maybe you shouldnt FINANCE them in the first place dumping 1 ton of machine guns into the hands of Kurds that are now totally unaccounted for. Just saying!
Ehhhxactly. Snowden didn’t give FSA money. He didn’t give them training. He didn’t put American guns in their hands. Who did that? That’s right. A special planning committee led by Senator and war genius John McCain. The fruit that fell from their planting landed right on French allies. Great longterm policy planning guys.
On a related note, CBS’s “48 Hours” special last night was like watching an infomercial about all of the reasons we should be deathly afraid of Terrorist Attacks™. Thus we must trust government intelligence (oxymoron noted) agencies to sift through all private communications and require companies like Apple to hand over encryption codes.
Those agencies are positively gleeful about exploiting the carnage in Paris to further their agendas. The vultures were circling before the bodies were cold.
I wonder how many of us have watched that interview. I some point I started to wonder if USG official have lost their sanity en mass or something
Michael Flynn can talk like this because he knows he can. It was a constant stream of pure, unadulterated, paternalistic b#lsh!t, non-sense, inconsistencies, shameless lies …
// __ Mehdi Hasan goes Head to Head with Michael T Flynn
~
youtube.com/watch?v=SG3j8OYKgn4
~
RCL
Glenn, what are your feelings on Jeremy Scahill’s use of the same methods?
Scahill: A senior administration official, who declined to comment on the classified documents, told The Intercept that “those guidelines remain in effect today.”
Scahill: The system for creating baseball cards and targeting packages, according to the source, depends largely on intelligence intercepts and a multi-layered system of fallible, human interpretation. “It isn’t a surefire method,” he said.
Scahill: Within the special operations community, the source said, the internal view of the people being hunted by the U.S. for possible death by drone strike is: “They have no rights. They have no dignity.
Scahill: An intimate account of the Shabaab civil war was provided to The Intercept in a series of interviews conducted with a current member of al Shabaab and a source who has maintained close contacts with the group.
Scahill: The slides were provided by a source with knowledge of the U.S. government’s drone program who declined to be identified because of fears of retribution.
Scahill: When asked for more details about Awlaki’s alleged role in the Paris attack, an AQAP source told The Intercept that Awlaki’s role was as the “coordinator between [the AQAP] leadership and the Kouachi brothers.”
Scahill: An AQAP source told me that the group supports what Coulibaly did and that it does not matter what group — if any — assisted him, just that he was a Muslim who took the action
Also, in the past year you have given largely positive reviews to both James Risen’s and Charlie Savage’s books, which both rely significantly on anonymous sources.
Perhaps it isn’t the broad use of “U.S. Officials Say” that disturbs you, but its use when it doesn’t align with your narratives and beliefs?
I’ve written many, many times over the years about the proper use of anonymity if you’re actually interested. Anonymity was a concept created for very limited purposes: where the source (a) is providing evidence that negates the official position of his/her organization; (b) is vital to the story and can’t be otherwise obtained, and most importantly, (c) would face serious repercussions if identified as the source.
That is the polar opposite of providing anonymity to officials of organizations to disseminate the institutional line.
That doesn’t mean that I agree with every application of anonymity from Jeremy or anyone else – these are hard cases and some instance are debatable – but we are in full-scale agreement on the principles. And those principles are radically violated by the vast majority of anonymity grants by establishment US media outlets.
A leak is a way (usually an opening) for fluid to escape a container or fluid-containing system, such as a tank or a ship’s hull, through which the contents of the container can escape or outside matter can enter the container. Leaks are usually unintended and therefore undesired. The word leak usually refers to a gradual loss; a sudden loss is usually called a spill.
Metaphors of language from Wikipedia entry. “Leaks are usually unintended” – but now the metaphor would more often be used in news to describe deliberate, reduced-accountability information spreading.
I’d add a third verb/noun to “leak” and “spill” (which serve verb/noun functions themselves) — “inject/injection”.
I’d call these planted stories “injections” to differentiate them from “leaks” because the idea of “delberate” leaks by organizations is misleading.
Except in another colloquial sense: “to take a leak”.
Thanks Glenn, appreciate the explanation.
What you come here – repeatedly – trying to imply as hypocrisy has been – repeatedly – explained here to you and others as the difference between protecting the powerless who are trying to inform the citizenry of things the government does not want them to know versus licking the ass of the powerful in order to propagate the preferred narrative of those proffering their asses for worship.
That you so consistently come here trying to cast doubt on one – and only one – side of that equation is…informative about your methods and level of critical thinking skills. Or perhaps just your errant aim.
Actually, I’d never heard Glenn’s justification, so don’t get your panties in too much of a bunch. I think his approach makes sense in that you pay attention to what motivates the anonymous source. But I question Glenn’s blanket application and am extremely skeptical of notion that he is a fair arbiter of the legitimacy of sources.
Furthermore, I’m pretty confident that on the spectrum of anonymous source quality, there is a huge amount of real estate between the “powerless” and “ass-lickers.” One example: In one of Bob Woodward’s more recent books, there is speculation that James Jones was one of his key sources. He certainly was not a powerless individual but he felt marginalized in the Obama Administration. Either way, as Glenn stated above, the key is that the source “is providing evidence.”
If I had the time and resources, I’d love to treat reporters and their sources like an analyst assessing forecasts. A week, a month, a year down the road – compare the claims of these reporters (and their sources) to the outcomes and figure out which are reliable.
I find it odd when I hear Glenn’s fans take this approach. Hasn’t the exact same complaint been leveled at Glenn? Wouldn’t you agree that TI’s message is pretty consistent across the authors (i.e. there aren’t a lot of divergent viewpoints)? If yes, wouldn’t it make sense that my criticism may just appear to be one-sided because the narrative itself is such?
Actually, I’d never heard Glenn’s justification, so don’t get your panties in too much of a bunch.
Ok, fine. Now you have, but I’d be willing to bet that at some future point I’ll see you in here making almost exactly the same critique. BTW, I am a fan of going commando and/or wearing thongs. Not much to bunch, and not my style to get bunchy at any rate. ;-}
But I question Glenn’s blanket application and am extremely skeptical of notion that he is a fair arbiter of the legitimacy of sources.
Actually, he pretty much said he doesn’t approve of a blanket application,
…and he has said that the notion of “fairness” is not something to be pursued over the notion of “truth”. The idea that “fairness” is to be valued over “truth” is one that is raised most consistently by the side which is trying hardest to ensure that “truth” is rarely, if ever, perceived.
If I had the time and resources, I’d love to treat reporters and their sources like an analyst assessing forecasts. A week, a month, a year down the road – compare the claims of these reporters (and their sources) to the outcomes and figure out which are reliable.
This is actually a good idea. It’s called “accountability” and it’s something that Greenwald does on a fairly frequent basis, as you know from reading his articles on the media and their misrepresentations.
Wouldn’t you agree that TI’s message is pretty consistent across the authors (i.e. there aren’t a lot of divergent viewpoints)?
On which message? And have all the authors established published opinions on all the topics that have been covered by TI since its inception? I think you try to paint with too broad a brush when you make statements like that. I consider your critique to be one-sided in that you seem to choose to largely support and defend groups whose sole interest is in maintaining US power. I have seen very little in your critique to make me think otherwise and I know from my own reading that there is no dearth of such opinions and/or critiques to be found elsewhere so, irrespective of my dis/agreement with opinions expressed here, I almost always find value in the views because they are refreshingly out-of-step with the norm.
Governments want mass surveillance and collection of everyone’s data not because of the terrorist threat, that’s just a convenient persuader, but rather because of the cyberwar that will come in the future. They want to be able to trace back in time not where the jihadi threat came from but rather the technological anarchist threat, because cyberwar will dramatically change the power-relationship of nation states. States aren’t that bothered about terrorism, that’s the cover story. It’s cyberwar that they really fear.
I am greatly cheered by the resilience shown this weekend in the face of the swift & expected attempts to exploit this attack, which was so horrific. Depressed beyond capacity, I didn’t think I could take another post-9/11 retrenchment of stupid attitude, so thanks for coming out swinging.
(And I’m glad too, and not solely because of rooting interest, that Sanders in the debate didn’t just lie down and take it, the we-must-talk-only-this-way-today imperative – instead rightly pointing out that ISIS is a consequence of the post-9/11 response…pretty good, man. And pretty funny that Hillary Clinton tried the old narrative, the hey banking was good thing after 9/11 bit, although she is not being sufficiently roasted in the press as she never is for these kinds of preposterous statements).
Yes, rebuilding Wall St helped the country, and the world out, so much, until around 2007 when it started to collapse. And now, all HRC wants is another chance to help Wall St, and herself, at the expense of the rest of us. And the Dems, being the arrogant idiots they are, thinking they are so much smarter than the TeaTards, will vote for her.
I’ll be voting for a woman for president, Dr. Jill Stein of Green Party. Again.
I usually vote third party too, Mass Independent. I urge you personally to support Sanders in the Democratic nomination race on solely the following criterion: because if he were to win it, a lot of those “arrogant idiots” would keel over from heart attacks.
The town clerk accidentally registered me as a Dem, so I will be voting for Bernie in the primary. I lived in VT for a long time and voted for him, met him in my town and talked to him. He’s a very carefully politician, careful about how he speaks and how he crafts his message. I was happy to see him let loose in the debate. I’m not happy with his stand on Israel, but if he were the Dem nominee (the fix is in for HRC, so I doubt he would get the nomination EVEN if he wins the primaries) I’d probably vote for him to see if he would blow up the Wall St thieves dens and drug companies. But Obama’s reign of cowardice is the lesson to remember. Such a slick liar, still saying ACA premiums are low, sure they are; but the deductibles are outrageous. Can’t wait to see him out the door.
I have never been registered as a Democrat so I’ll have to do it, although I don’t have to do it until the last minute. I live in Iowa so I will take part in their strange “caucus” thingee next year.
For those who would prefer to see the quotes in context, here is a link to the article. The headline, which may or may not have been written by Mr. Greenwald, referred specifically to the Khorasan Group who were briefly hyped by the US Security establishment, although little evidence of their existence was ever put forward.
Erelis said: “You have to wonder what the real purpose of the surveillance is all about.”
— This is easy. Panopticism. The idea that people will conform if they feel they are being watched all the time. People self-regulate when they feel Big Brother is looking over their shoulder. Well, that’s the theory. It just means that the clueless are a little more timid in opposing fascism, and the more savvy encrypt or abandon the internet to read books.
Even with our sophisticated surveillance the government could not identify and stop the Boston Marathon bombers–and even after the Russians warned us about them. But as I understand, the sophisticated surveillance system did manage to identify and track the organizers of OWS before the Zuccotti Park occupation. You have to wonder what the real purpose of the surveillance is all about.
In the past, a scapegoat was literally a goat who served in an act of magic in order to take disease away from the village (or their ‘sins’, in the Mosaic version). This basic superstitious rite has not changed. The self-appointed elders of the global village drag out the goat and attach their own blame to it and send it off into the wilderness, confident the disease will be removed from the village. It never worked, but the superstition remained.
I think we give government agencies too much credit for complex strategic thinking. It’s nothing more than the basic superstitious urge of the past. There is no campaign of malignment or clever PR, it’s just fearful people reacting as they always have.
There were two goats. One for Jehovah and one for Azazel.
One was sacrificed for the sins that had built up over a year (the one for Jehovah) and the other was allowed to live in the desert.
Jesus was the sacrified offering for all sin for ever.
You may not believe in God but one quick look around this world will convince you the devil (Azazel) is real.
and how will you change that?
RCL
and how will you change that?
Well, in his youth he did try to upgrade the process to injecting the evils into pigs via their mouths. Apparently that hasn’t worked any better.
As we watched the events on TV I said to the friend with me, “Tomorrow, it will be blamed on Snowden by our neo-fascists.” Well, it’s tomorrow.
Brilliant article. The link to the Al Jazeera clip is priceless. Where was Mehdi Hasan during the burlesque of the recent debates? I would really love to see him interview el trompista or Madame Hillary. For my bucket list.
My ears tuned in on the frequent use of the phrase “Detention Facility.” The underlying connection between military actions in the Middle East and the assault on Immigrants and Refugees in the Detention Gulags scattered across this continent is worth noting. The electronic surveillance devices being placed on the women leaving Detention facilities like Karnes, Dilley or Hutto are another form of bondage. The women I know from the Northern Triangle, who have passed through the immigrant prisons and now must wear them call them grilletes — in Spanish: shackles.
Thanks for all the research and the passion.
Thanks for validating my post on the previous article, Glen.
You tell it like it is.
@ Glenn
Great piece!
I’m not sure what is more disconcerting–how bad the propaganda is from our government given the resources they have, or how fucking stupid the majority of human beings are for blindly believing it.
And I’m with Pedinska below. The chaos sowed in the ME is purposeful. It’s a longstanding feature of America’s foreign policy, not a bug. But for the sowing of the violence in the ME/SE Asia, the American people would demand the military budget be cut in half and troops returned home from the hundreds of garrisons it has all over the globe.
America’s elites need an “enemy” to justify the scope of its foreign military involvement all over the globe. And when such an enemy doesn’t exist, America creates one from scratch.
“SE Asia, the American people would demand the military budget be cut in half and troops returned home from the hundreds of garrisons it has all over the globe.”
And the Western world would not have to worry about ISIL killing innocent civilians in their cities. Stupid French! They should not have invaded Iraq and pursued their drone strikes in that region.
@ Tatou
What in the F are you babbling about? And what in the hell do your three questions above have to do with anything Glenn wrote in this piece about American officials and media pundits using the Paris attacks to blame Edward Snowden?
The answer to your first question is that Glenn doesn’t claim French officials are blaming Snowden, it is American officials and pundits who are blaming him. And did you even bother to click on the links in the piece? They basically provide answer to questions 2 and 3.
As far as the unnumbered questions at the end, I’ll let Glenn answer himself if he so chooses.
@Tatou
Kalishnakovs are produced in many countries, especially Eastern European ones during the communist era. In fact, I recall that the US has supplied them to many of its proxy armies, because those armies are familiar with them, as well as the guns being reliable and cheap, parts availably, etc. The ones used in Paris could have come a short distance, or even been sold in Belgium as that country has a long history of illegal armament dealers.
Beaten to the punch.
sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShJUtkzMETg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalashnikov_rifle
If we are going to play the “blame game” here we should go back to 1948 when the United States helped create a new colony known as The State of Israel which ultimately became an apartheid state against the Palestinians and a nuclear weapons base for the United States to threaten the entire Middle East and Europe.
Then we could move on to Saudi Arabia allowing a U.S. military base there.
Then we could go to all the military meddling done by the CIA by overthrowing Mossedegh in Iran which caused, in the end, the hostage crisis with Carter.
Then the illegal sanctions against Iraq which killed hundreds of thousands of innocents, the illegal U.S. war against Iraq which killed millions. When will Bush, Cheney and Co. go before the Hague?!
Edward Snowden blowing the whistle to the American people about illegal NSA spying on all of us had ZERO to do with the recent Paris slaughter.
Official U.S. government policies over the past 50 plus years are to blame for the carnage there.
And the entire U.S. mainstream media was their cheerleader when instead they should have been telling the American people the TRUTH about U.S. government activities.
What frightens me most is that many, actually the overwhelming majority, of so-called liberal people I know, want more government and police surveillance; think most refugees swarming into Europe and elsewhere should only, at best, be only given a few weeks or months to re-establish their lives (find jobs and housing) before being deported; are openly hostile to Muslims. And those are the liberals who I had believed were truly liberal but have actually shown they are little more than people frightened by shadows rather than truth. Worse yet, for me, they include family members who, due to family histories, should know otherwise — otherwise being that some of their parents, including my own, would not be in Canada if the opinions they now have and freely share were common when my parents and I migrated here in 1951, especially since they were active members of the losing World War Two side.
Excellent article, unfortunately America cannot handle this. If you dare to speak of these facts, the citezens become angry and confused. The corporate media gets the blame for not informing us, but the reality is they don’t need to hide the truth. America rejects it even when the noses are rubbed in it.
With a majority of gop voters supporting a snake oil salesman and a lunatic. There’s no sign of change on the horizon.
America has never been and never will be interested in facts.
Perceptions are grossly distorted by sensational events – “If you imagine an event occurring, your view of the likelihood of that event actually occurring increases. If you worry and ruminate about awful events, you are also increasing your sense of how likely it is that the awful event will occur.”
While tragic, deaths due terrorist attacks are statistically insignificant events in the developed nations, even when the causalties on 9/11 are taken into account. But gladly capitalizing upon these distorted public perceptions are polticians, government agencies, and firms that supply them with police state hardware, clamoring to “protect you” by possibly, maybe reducing the already infinitesimal threat by some unmeasurable amount, if any. All you need to do is spend a trillion dollars or so of mostly borrowed public-liable funds and submit to a currently relatively benign “turn-key police state” reality. Fools…
How Scared of Terrorism Should You Be?
Not very. You are four times more likely to be killed by a lightning bolt than by a terror attack.
Sep 6, 2011
https://reason.com/archives/2011/09/06/how-scared-of-terrorism-should
Eight facts about terrorism in the United States
Apr 16, 2013
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/16/eight-facts-about-terrorism-in-the-united-states/
I appreciate the article and referencing. Thanks a lot for your research.
The one and only entity to blame for these terrorist attacks is Israel.
It is their M.O.
It’s good that you commented on this, and the title is very appropriate since this is exactly what Woolsey and his friends intend to do — to manage the emotions of the young, to lock them into a non-threatening course of behavior, before they have a chance to realize (as Snowden did) what is actually going on in the world.
Another great article. Thanks, Glenn.
And thanks for including the AJ video. Mehdi obliterated that fucking moron Flynn.
Thank you, again, for setting the record straight.
Terror trial collapses after fears of deep embarrassment to security services
Gildo was was flying to Manila to join his wife, a Filipina, when he was stopped under schedule 7 of the 2000 Terrorism Act, the same statute used to question David Miranda, partner of the former Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald, in 2013.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/01/trial-swedish-man-accused-terrorism-offences-collapse-bherlin-gildo
Mr Greenwald, you should be aware that “Terrorists” have “relatives” who are aware of the “Plans”, and who do not necessarily use encryption. So that way we can catch the main culprits.
Which again reminds me – where are the members of the Osama-bin-Laden Harem? Why are they being hidden in Saudi Arabia and not being interviewed under enhanced interrogation techniques? Surely, they can tell us if some of the senior Paki folks including Mr Musharraf was visiting their Lordship?
Of course, the entire Bush/Cheney gang lied about everything and to our face. Nancy Pelosi declared ‘impeachment is off the table.’ For decades one adm. after another has covered up for the one previous. One hand washes the other and yet, there are no clean hands in DC. Nearly every day we learn of another atrocity commented in our name here and elsewhere (which includes most of the middle east) the only difference between the Dems (sane), the Rapepublicans (nuts!). The chant of both is keep ’em scared, keep ’em stupid. Mission largely accomplished, but there are signs of an awakening. White cops are at war against brown and black people in our streets; our nation is doing the same in Islam. Peace be upon us, some day, this side of the grave.
BTW, Obama is only a darker shade of pale.
Ex-Mossad Intelligence Chief Efraim Halevy agrees (from embedded video):
100% correct. The actions of the western allies in Germany after World War 2 – on the insistence of the US, I might add – demonstrated that it is possible to rid a state of its most destructive elements without sowing the seeds for future wars. Apparently GW Bush, his cohorts and allies preferred to maximize revenge for past crimes, real and imagined, with no thought whatsoever for the future. Then they follow the American mantra of never apologizing, never analyzing, and never questioning.
The great tragedy in all this is that it is the innocent, whether in France, Spain, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, or wherever else the Americans and the Jihadists are fighting their senseless war that suffer, while the criminals and their toadies remain safe in their well guarded compounds.
Apparently GW Bush, his cohorts and allies preferred to maximize revenge for past crimes, real and imagined, with no thought whatsoever for the future.
I actually believe that “revenge” is the least of what motivates these people. There is a very long historical record that recognizes the creation of chaos as affording opportunity. The question then becomes what opportunity is sought, especially by those who seek to sow chaos.
We cannot forget the destruction of Iraqi antiquities. Millennia-old artifacts were looted and/or destroyed as a direct consequence of the invasion. Such destruction is evidence of the attempt at complete annihilation of a country; by design. Antiquities define the history of a people. ISIS’ destruction of antiquities is an attempt to deny the existence of others.
Israel had no problem wiping Palestine off the map, literally. Perhaps with Iraq destroyed the Palestinians can move in …
How to stop IS?
Build a united, coordinated alliance instead of pursuing these insane proxy wars with the other opponents of IS.
For starters: do something in good faith. Do it now. Dismantle and vacate NATO bases in the former Warsaw Pact countries and coordinate with Russia. Continue the process of normalizing relations with Iran and enlarge the alliance. Start the process of building a Palestinian State to calm that conflict and generate good will instead of pouring gas on it. And stop giving IS money and weapons through your so called allies in the Persian Gulf region.
@ Torturestan
Exactly.
The biggest thing the west can do to stop terror would be to stop arming, funding, training, organizing terrorists. All well documented from early alCIAda to Isis now. Pretty simple solution, & of course those responsible want attention anywhere but on them. Which alphabet soup fascist organization pays you to troll here Tatou?
Reprising: That there is not a ready, and obvious, answer to your question does not mean we have to employ, repeatedly, the same failed strategies. -THG
Islamic State Muslims say “thank you”:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT2zFYdWcAA9mtB.jpg
Note to readers: The photo that the lover of mass murder, the cretin commenter calling itself Louise Cypher, is a photo of many of the people who were killed lying dead. A human with scruples would make that clear in their post rather than hide it behind a link, without comment.
You’re such a class act Louise, but kind of obtuse.
after they have successfully fomented and uprooted Al-Quaeda, the Taliban, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, … Al-Gaddafi, Al-Assad …
Oh, no wait haven’t they toppled Al-Assad? Didn’t Obama openly say many years ago to him during a UN meeting he will be toppled soon?
What happened? Have they started to have doubts about freedom-loving, spreading democracy?
RCL
The SITE Intelligence Group helped german islamist website Global Islamic Media Front (GIMF) with organizing their propaganda on the internet. GIMF was lead by islamist Irfan Peci who was also working as an informant for the german Intelligence agency Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution):
https://machtelite.wordpress.com/2015/06/01/gimf-chef-irfan-peci-der-v-mann-und-die-sting-operation-des-site-instituts/
Thanks Glenn foe once again unmasking the fools.
This is an article that needed to be written. I’m relieved to see it and feel that it powerfully vindicates the case for this publication (thanks again to Pierre O).
I worry that the audience is too small.
The UK’s Daily Mail has replaced it’s front page story with one showing the floor of the concert venue covered in blood. Predictably, the comments are full of bloodthirsty, islamophobic and anti-immigrant rhetoric and demands to “regain control of our borders”. The Mail will stop at nothing in its campaign to get the UK out of the EU. It began fearmongering about terrorists among the refugees immediately, without any proof and before the dead were even out of the morgue.
Somehow we (citizens of the west) have to stand united, even if some our leaders bear some historic culpability for the state of Syria and Iraq. 750,000 times $30 for Bernie Sanders or anyone else isn’t going to tip the balance away from the grip of the 0.01% who have controlled the narrative so far.
What will? We need to do more as citizens than adopt OpSec.
You can start by confronting the bloodthirstiest of your relatives and friends and work your way up, or down.
Ignore The Party. Spend time forming your own instead of voting in 2016.
I’m a European, living in Europe. None of my relations or friends are in the least bloodthirsty. We have proportional representation where I live, which makes starting a party doable without risking Ralph Nader vote-splitting type results, but that is too long term a project and I will certainly vote. We are unlikely to have any opportunity to vote on anything related to security other than on issues related to the admission and accommodation of refugees. This may be an existential threat to the EU, which is why asserting our personal right to privacy is the least of what needs to be done.
Almost posted “if you are american…” caveat but deleted it. Sorry to insult you, but what I am proposing needs to be said a thousand times. I am not suggesting any American citizen take risks I have not already taken, and there is no short term alternative. Coalescing small groups of rational, fact respecting people into larger, influential groups takes time. In the meantime, not being complicit is a constructive act. Voting for what will be served up by The Party in 2016 will be a sinister act.
And the right to personal privacy will always be critically important everywhere in our so called free world, or it is not free.
As far as “vote splitting” goes, well, I voted for Ralph Nader twice, and I am proud of those votes. The Dems will be yammering for 50 years about how he lost Gore the election, which is basically untrue, because the corrupt and partisan Supreme Court gave Bush the election, which Gore did not even bother to fight for, despite all of the evidence of ballot tampering, fraud, voter suppression, etc., etc. Same with Kerry four years later. Also, remember that Gore’s VP was Israel Joe, so to say that Gore’s administration would not have invaded Iraq is speculation, because maybe Joe could have influenced Gore in that direction, or if LIEberman took over if Gore was incapacitated or died, then we still could have ended up in war.
The point is, a citizen’s vote is THEIR vote, the Dems or Repubs do not own it, or deserve it unless the voter gives it to them. I for one, after the reaction and exposure of the elite Dems Obama, Kerry, Schumer, Feinstein, Clinton, etc. calling Snowden a coward and traitor, will absolutely not vote for a Dem on a national ticket ever again. I may make an exception for Sanders, who will not be allowed the nomination anyway. It is important to note that Ralph Nader was the only candidate in my long lifetime who was an actual public servant, and who had done more for the country than any hundreds of politicians in his time.
Fantastic article, and particularly liked the interview embedded:
this is the FORMER HEAD Of Defense Intelligence Agency completely without answers at times. To his credit, he is surprisingly honest about the complete failures of his career’s work and the failures of current leadership, sorely needed direct talk at this time.
Direct quote of his, this is sobering honesty
“i think we have invested in more conflict, instead of investing in more solutions”
This man also agrees in this interview that the drone strikes he directly oversaw created more terrorists than they killed/prevented.
It was an amazing interview. I came away disturbed by the fact that while I consider myself reasonably well informed because I make efforts to be, I had never before heard of Camp Nama and the war crimes committed there. How uninformed is the American general public? The policies that get implemented on our behalf, often to distressingly high levels of public support, are built on such a rotten basis of hideous film flam. Many people have been making comparisons to the lead up to the First World War. It does feel like a similarly unnecessary march over a cliff — the deaths of so many young people in Paris responded to by a puffed up little martinet like Hollande calling for more pitilessness. You can see an archduke Ferdinand cockaded hat on his head almost.
“There are some who feel like that conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is bring them on. We have the force necessary to deal with the situation.”
It has been going on for twelve years now, with us applying all the force we can muster (without disturbing the important process of consumerism). How’s it going so far, Tedd? From my vantage point, not so well: trillions spent, millions killed, freedom curtailed, and they keep on coming. But maybe you see things differently.
Those who ENABLED these INVADERS be allowed in must be stripped of all material possessions to be turned over to the Families and Survivors. Start with ALL of George Soros’ wealth and go on down the line. The INVADER ENABLERS committed these acts BY PROXY and must pay FULL REPARATIONS.
Jewish Billionaire George Soros has confirmed he wants to bring down Europe’s borders, following the accusation made last week by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. “This invasion is driven, on the one hand, by people smugglers, and on the other by those (human rights) activists who support everything that weakens the nation-state,” Mr Orban said. Mr Soros has now issued an email statement to Bloomberg Business, claiming his foundations help “uphold European values”, while Mr Oban’s actions in strengthening the Hungarian border and stopping a huge migrant influx “undermine those values.” “His plan treats the protection of national borders as the objective and the refugees as an obstacle,” Mr Soros added. “Our plan treats the protection of refugees as the objective and national borders as the obstacle.” Already Israeli businessman are buying up land in northern Iraq, where ISIS(rael) has depopulated an entire region, overwhelming Europe with refugees in the process.
To paraphrase Barney Frank, “Sir, on what planet do you spend most of your time?”
Planet Info Wars.
albert : Okay, then, those who enabled ISIS should be stripped of their properties. I presume you wish to start with GWBush, Cheney, Rumsfeld as well as those who enabled the ill-advised “adventure” into Iraq, from which ISIS arose.
Mr. Soros is not the problem. Republican adventurism is.
It’s bipartisan.
Whenever ANYTHING bad happens, the corporate press has to blame one of two things: The First Amendment, or the Second. Congress may blame the Fourth or the Sixth, and take commensurate action, but it’s rare to see a yellow journalist complain how giving detained persons a hearing is putting children at risk.
In Paris, there is no Second Amendment, so the press had a pretty limited range of options: radical clerics, confidential communications, or violent video games. And they’ve already so thoroughly cowed video game makers that there is not even a single over-the-top “Life of ISIS” satire for them to complain about – despite the perfect preadaptation of the ISIS lifestyle for use in a video game – so that’s out.
One could question why the press is so opposed to free expression, but the key here is that they serve corporate owners, and corporate owners appreciate that capitalism cannot tolerate a free market. In order to ensure that they are not confronted with some competitor better than a facehugger with a case of head cheese, they need to continue buying into the international model of a managed marketplace…
Hi Glenn,
I sent you an emai, but in case you miss it, you might want to update your article to also mention this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3319037/We-spies-powers-need-says-LORD-CARLILE.html
Thank you.
AU
I wonder what my Greenwald would say if his family members was executed by these terrorists. I think the storyline will change. It is much about everybody/ government being wrong but that will certainly change if any of these carnage would affect Mr Snowden or any of his friends.
What if your family was wiped out by a drone while attending a wedding? Would you be justified in being upset?
Karl cannot process the question because the millions of lives he helped obliterate since March 2003 were not human lives.
To him, the value of one western human being has great value… when convenient.
For Karl, and people like him, a billion arab lives are worth less than zero.
Yeah, he would say something like, “Now that these carnage affect my family, I think Snowden is to blame for terrorism.” Or maybe not.
Bullshit. If a decent person has his family killed by terrorists, he’ll hate the TERRORISTS. Not their phone carrier, not their encryption protocol, not the local “dumb roads” that government foolishly failed to equip with special pavement to puncture the tires of Muslims and other bad people.
The people who hate our rights, who go after our freedoms every time there’s an attack – they don’t care what the attack is, they don’t care who it hurts; they just have the money to get their big fat talking heads plastered on screens while people are watching and argue for whatever they think will make them some money and power. No matter how foolhardy that course of action is even for them in the long run. The court of an absolute emperor is never a safe place.
Yes, a close family member of mine was killed in an automobile accident. For a bit after that I feared driving and didn’t want my kids in cars.
Fortunately, I was not put in charge of the Highway Safety Commission or I might have shut down interstates everywhere!
I might have shut down interstates everywhere!
No need to go overboard, Mona. Just mandate everyone go back to horses and carriages. Think of the boon the the Amish economy that would result!
Hell, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara used one-time pads(probably the simplest and most secure mode of communication) for years. Our “Meritocracy” gets ahead by convincing us that our enemies are as stupid as they themselves are.
When techno-solutions for essentially political problems stop working then the system needs to find a convenient scape-goat.
The sad truth about surveillance is that the only thing that it can really prevent is liberty and freedom. An 13 year old child with an iPhone knows that someone that it is possible his calls to his mother are being tapped.
If they are going to blame Snowden, they should also include Elvis, Snow-White and the aliens.
But that Tooth Fairy…definitely fifth column.
I disagree. The question they are most desperate not be asked is ‘if mass surveillance isn’t effective against ISIS or terrorists in general, why are they still doing it?’
Law enforcement is genuinely angry about Snowden, and not just as a cover for their own shortcomings. In the past, the use of encryption was limited to bad actors – journalists, activists, hackers, senior company executives, drug dealers, environmentalists and organized crime figures. So encryption acted like a flare, signalling that the person using it warranted greater attention. The NSA could then launch targeted attacks to compromise that person’s computer, knowing the effort was likely worthwhile. They’d then turn the data over to law enforcement agencies who could use it to get a cut of the action.
Now, grandmothers in Skokie are using encryption to chat with the grandkids. Imagine the NSA spending months using man in the middle attacks, finally infiltrating the communications and discovering nothing. Of course they are going to blame Snowden (just as the gods hated Prometheus for giving fire to mankind). As their hatred towards him grows, their attacks will become more vociferous and more frequent.
They can live with having created ISIS. They simply shrug their shoulders and say it was the inadvertent by-product of well intentioned actions. But they can’t stand the thought of encryption no longer acting as a signal flare and, as their world slowly goes dark, losing their racket.
However, I’ve been overly naive in the past, so I might be wrong.
James Madison’s constitutional “rule of law” blueprint means that not everything is the government’s business in the first (as opposed to Erik Honaker’s blueprint).
It’s only the government’s business if there is individual “probable cause ” pointing to a particular person or place. Guarding one’s privacy from government snoops is not probable cause or even reasonable suspicion. The government snoops also took a loyalty oath to respect individual privacy.
Terrorism is just one of our business lines. There are others we have to worry about and keep tabs on.
The tactic of “terrorism” is that weak groups (that can’t take or hold territory) use “fear” so that their enemy (a nation or superpower) OVER-REACTS to that fear by punishing the wrong individuals and taking away liberties – they essentially get a nation to destroy it’s own values and pick fights with the wrong people. Soon war profiteers create a counter-terrorism industry that drives itself and mission-creeps to include anyone that opposes this fraud.
The United States and other nations have “rewarded” the tactic of terrorism which creates an incentive for more of it in the future. Maybe removing the “profit-motive” from the so-called counter-terrorism industry would help return this fraud back into an honest endeavor?
Bad Mr. Snowden compromised NSA secret abuse not to terrorist but to we the people. Some say he has to pay, the courts have rule abuse took place. I will give him a pass on this one.
ISIS may have been created by neocons but might have evolved in other form by other means. ISIS exist it is the real deal and must be dealt with by those it opposes and threatens. About the sum total of most Nations on Earth.
Typo?
“everyone – especially The Terrorists – has known that forever.”
I think this should be “have known” since you added plural terrorists to the sentence?
Thanks for another great article.
being curious – after a long time not being curious what Glenn would have to say – I checked what he wrote about Paris – and perhaps because I suspected worst -(comparable to what Ann Coulter wrote – who blamed it on the lack of French firepower)
So in Glenns world- ‘Exploiting Emotions About Paris to Blame Snowden, Distract from Actual Culprits Who Empowered ISIS’?
Let’s check back in a year or two?
Parting is such sweet sorrow.
in the meantime – as one of the culprits who empowered the culprits who empowered ISIS – why don’t you shut up?
(or take the old moniker you had)
Parting is such sweet sorrow.
[snort!]
I think the only thing left is for a bonafide bernbart sighting to occur. ;-}
Oh yes! Why, it’s been forever since we learned what her husband thinks.
cake, are you unwell? That comment is quite lucid. Coherent, even.
Nah, you got ban-hammered to death and gave up in futility. Until now.
cake, are you unwell?
Yes I am.
Let me tell you a little secret about people who are able to think. They are usually not wrong in a year or two. Indeed, they are typically the ones who predict utter disasters like the outcome of the Iraq war, while others — the idiotic and unprincipled — fail to pay attention and learn.
Excellent article Glenn, many thanks !!!
Mixed in with this are the unarticulated exhortations by the pro-fascists to OBEY! To SHUT UP! Essentially, to BE COMPLICIT with fascism.
Snowden must be falsely accused (by the imperial policymakers and their unwitting, long-brainwashed supporters) of having caused the deaths of civilians in France. He defied the self-proclaimed authority of our oppressors. He spoke out and moreover, he has called for all civilians to accept our international responsibilities and oppose injustice. He showed that commitment to justice can overcome fear. That’s dangerous stuff.
Obedience has long been instilled in the American public. The American public has been conditioned to believe in many misconceptions about civil disobedience, misconceptions which we’ve all heard in the coverage of the NSA revelations by Snowden and Greenwald.
Howard Zinn tackled erroneous thinking about CD in his book, Disobedience and Democracy: Nine Fallacies Of Law And Order, as well as in his other writings.
Zinn acknowledged such confusion goes back thousands of years. He wrote,
He wrote elsewhere:
Take a look at this summary of Zinn’s elaboration on CD:
http://www.newschool.edu/wpi/globalrights/usa/1968-Zinn-civil%20disobedience.html
This pernicious orthodoxy is most blindly followed by the imperial policymakers and their unwitting, long-brainwashed supporters but rather by some of Greenwald and Snowden’s interlocutors from (what’s left of) the (far) left who categorize this particular ‘sacrilege’ on their part as proof that they are covert actors on behalf of the very power structures they have done so much to discommode.
It is a classic example of “Damned if you do and damned if you don’t”.
Sigh,
This pernicious orthodoxy is most blindly followed NOT by …
Come to think of it, they’re all blind to some degree or another. My main point is that people fighting this particular power grab are getting it from all sides including those who should know better. :-s
I have criticized ES and GG out of frustration at receiving no help from any journalist, lawyer, or institution such as the ACLU to alleviate years of painful extra judicial punishment which I do not accept as deserved or justified. There are dissidents in greater danger than ES — if only for as long as he has asylum in Russia — but we are not public figures, therefore on our own, and the refusal to help anyone on the stalk & torture lists raises my suspicions from time to time. If you wore my shoes you would understand.
I think ES and Greenwald should stay safe by staying right where they are; they are not the punishment deserving crimnals, so I do not fit in the ‘those who should know better’ slot. But I want to know who you are talking about. Who are these interlocutors who should know better?
Respectfully,
Stan
Who are these interlocutors who should know better?
No, not you, Stan. This statement from my initial post is as far as I choose to go:
Greenwald has addressed them by name and in posts over time. They have a fairly rabid fan-base, one which puts “Greenwaldistanians” as some characterize Glenn’s proponents, to shame in terms of their nastiness and general harassment. Apologies for not wanting to step into that particular shitpile and get that on my shoes. :-s
Great job, Glenn. Thank you.
Also, there are some sadistic pro-fascist commentators and idiot-civilians who insist that whistleblowers submit to the arbitrary violence and punishment of the Government, of the Courts, etc. They perversely and wrongly declare that in order for the act of civil disobedience to be legitimate, that the conscientious objector must surrender oneself to the cruelty of the state/authorities.
Read this response by the late Howard Zinn:
http://www.murphywong.net/AcceptYourPunishment.html
Exactly my point from above. I just didn’t read far enough to see you had it adequately covered.
And many thanks for the links to some really great reading you share here in the comment threads.
I see where you’re coming from. At the same time, the vast amounts of Americans are apathetic to the charge. I don’t blame them as most don’t care or want to care about politics.
The best answer to the question on how to deal with terrorism is the one Chomsky usually gives: Stop participating in it.
14 years and still they haven’t learned that you can’t bomb an ideology. The more you bomb the stronger it grows.
The PSL issued this statement:
http://www.liberationnews.org/psl-statement-attacks-paris-beirut/
Not to mention that Snowden would be quietly living in Hawaii if the national security state wasn’t doing everything but stopping terrorist attacks. So rather than “Snowden–>terrorism” the more compelling argument is “NatSec incompetence and criminality–> terrorism, ISIS, end of constitutionalism, Snowden.”
Thanks, Glenn.
I tried to address similar comments here:
https://www.facebook.com/moyersandcompany/posts/1134542986563711
I’m surprised to see that you are on facebook. Seems contrary to so much of the oftentimes useful and informative comment posts that you post here.
It’s the strangest thing, I typed “ISIS, chaos, vacuum” into Google, and this article popped up:
Bush created ISIL, Assad created ISIL, Iraqis created ISIL…Mickey Mouse created ISIL….We have heard all theories. Now tell us how do you stop ISIS?
>>Now tell us how do you stop ISIS?
That there is not a ready, and obvious, answer to your question does not mean we have to employ, repeatedly, the same failed strategies. Americans, and others, of the For God’s sake do something! sentiment create a political environment in which all manner of exploitation results. It should be obvious to you by now, and it’s sad that it isn’t, that you will be among those exploited.
ISIS seems to have a death wish. I’d be more worried about their successor.
No need to worry, we’ll kill their successor with kindness.
I think the word Hollande used was ‘pitiless’. Without pity. So not sure how the French are going to be kind. Unless its that ‘cruel to be kind’ type of thingy. Brave words from small people….
The NSA is already working on their successor. Just putting on the finishing touches. And the surveillance proposals to go with them.
STOP…MEDDLING! Look up Chris Kraft, and “If you don’t know what to do, don’t do anything.”
You could start with facing the truth and at least remove Hillary Clinton from politics. Stop supporting terror governments in Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel. As the US politics only comes in 2 flavors it is impossible to stop radical islamists at this moment. You are part of the problem or part of the solution. Try to admit that and act upon it personally.
We will all find that we created them who are us who created them. See, a vicious never ending circle to keep the wheels of industry going, unless China quits loaning us money. But not for a while because they have caught the disease of capitalism.
“Now tell us how do you stop ISIS?”
There are a number of measures which could be taken, but won’t be and as you read on, you’ll see why.
1. Stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and stop weapons supplies to “moderate rebels”.
2. Tell Turkey to stop buying oil from Islamic State and shipping it to Israel via Erdogan’s son’s shipping line. Tell the same to al-Assad and Israel.
3. Tell Israel to stop assisting al-Nusra fighters on the Golan Heights.
4. Ask the US-led coalition allegedly bombing Islamic State in Syria (illegally), that if they’re going to persist, at least make a convincing show of it. Senator John McCain – of all people – complained recently that 75% of US aerial sorties in Syria come back without having dropped any bombs. Today, we read of the French attack on Raqqa where a number of Islamic State installations were destroyed. So far, no-one has queried why these haven’t been destroyed already, as they were known IS targets as of July 2014. And the list goes on…
5. Tell KSA and the Gulf States that if they continue to promote wahhabism and aid/abet Islamic State, or any other jihadist organisation, then their overseas assets will be seized, frozen and or sold. No exceptions.
6. Withdraw any and all US support for Israel and KSA.
The diplomats will have to earn their living for a change, but on the other hand, it will free up $millions if not $billions that America can use to improve its domestic situation for its citizens. I’m certain they’d appreciate it. For a nice change.
Apologies if I’ve missed anything. Feel free to add.
How do you stop a group of people that think they have the god given right to determine the legitimacy of governments, the right, and even the moral imperative to use violence to topple the illegitimate governments? Hint, it’s not by continuing to act like that, pervert what few mechanisms that were set up with the idea off stopping such things by exempting yourself from their jurisdiction and judgement while usurping their (theoretical) power to exclusively, and prejudicially, go after anyone who thinks you don’t have that right. Indeed, it is by taking the opposite approach, empowering the organizations and mechanisms that are supposed to bring those who commit such acts to justice, and encouraging them to be the strictest with yourself, submitting willingly to the penalties imposed, and working to get those with different perspectives into positions of power and decision making in those organizations that you will, slowly, with many false starts, many judgements that infuriate, and probably decades of apparent futility, reduce the prevalence and power of the mindset.
Have a conversation with anyone who lived under Saddam and then Maliki and they will tell you the difference is almost non-existent. Maliki was as cruel and ruthless and Saddam – not only on the Sunni’s but anyone who went against him.
In addition to the failures of noted and highly funded security agencies that are ripe with accusations to deflect attention, they will be soon(imediately) demanding more power(liberties) and money from their respected populations. Fear is for sale this week, and it’s a sellers market.
I also agree with Juan Cole’s evaluation of the Charlie Hebdo attacks. ISIS is looking to “sharpen the contradictions” between the muslim/non-muslim populations of Europe, and my guess is the governments of Europe my very well help with their cause.
*snort* There imperialism is stunning, back-doors into Open systems allowing them to spy on Bank-accounts and flying in the face of the securities exchange commission whilst then desperately trying to make what they’ve been doing legal in some way. None of it is legal, they’re being informed of that repeatedly by the European privacy commission and the courts of human rights. What’s upset them is there War machine with it’s flying saucer has crashed before it even got off the ground and people are looking at the Round-table foundation with narrowed eyeballs along with there Office of National Estimates (the ONE) set-up in the early 70’s which later became the National Security Agency. It happily fly’s in the face everything Democracy stands for, perhaps now is the time to go and read “Mein Kampf” people everywhere especially programmers knew about there “Back-door” in the Google talk-back service long before it became public knowledge and where openly combating it with unlocked modifications to there device, those where the people they where describing as hard-targets. *sniff* hard target’s, they have no idea what a hard target is. Russia and China both threw Google out of there country within a few week’s of them being there because they already suspected something was highly amiss and by now they’ll have replaced all those Linux & BSD systems with secure alternatives like Pascal – Flex and other derivatives, or did they really think they where going to hack there way into the Kremlin’s VAX? X-KeyScore brought every-ones attention back to the X11 Window manager and the fact that every “hacker” and programmer around the world advocates not using it. Tails – Linux no thanks, there are plenty of alternatives that do not purely leverage C & C++ and those alternatives are used by Scientists everywhere to keep arseholes like these out of there systems.
Just imagine all those guys with there grey beards going down into the archives of St Petersburg digging out all that old binary DEC equipment shaking there head as they look at the latest version of Windows 10 having a little *sigh* as they dust off all those old paper tape spindles giving the tape heads a loving blow to remove the excess dust probably muttering “Americans”
Open source has no back-doors, I beg to differ and wince at the thought of unjust enrichment that these guys have made putting them in there, BSD was fine whilst it was coded in ANSI-C it was only when it adopted the GNU and the GCC that the CVE or critical vulnerabilities started and then didn’t stop coming.
It’s painfully clear that the GCC compiler can not be trusted!
Deep dynamic linking that has grabbed the attention of every programmer everywhere and a heavily obfuscated Kernel with the NSA quickly updating its SELinux page to read, not intended to address any technical short coming’s that may already be present. Yeah we know…
Yeah, don’t forget how revolutionary the adaptation of systemd has been too.
Air-gap jumping and signal emanation malware with the addition of IoT and wireless access points and cell towers being everywhere pretty much dooms us all anyway. If you can’t airgap, then there’s a very difficult case to be made for trying to be secure — only trying to be the most boring motherf*cker in the world. And even then, you can get unlucky.
Snowden’s earliest revelations were actually some of the most important and bear on all of this stuff and most people are totally oblivious to it.
1984 looks like a utopia by comparison to what we have the potential for now.
I’m pretty sure Snowden, encryption, or anything else of the sort did NOT “empower” ISIS. My guess is totalitarianism probably is going to empower a lot of really terrible behavior though out of pure desperation — which will be mostly pointless.
Either way, as long as people are exploitable by emotion (and Paris has shown that this hasn’t changed, and probably never will) we’ll be exploitable by everything else, technical and otherwise — and especially by politicians and people with agendas.
Yes, I think this means I’ve finally firmly found myself entrenched in nihilist territory, desperately searching for escape from all of this crap — because I only see ourselves entrenching ourselves more and more into the morass (noone learned anything from 9/11 except for how better to exploit fear, for instance — and I don’t mean al Qaeda or ISIS — I mean ourselves — people — humans in general).
“The Matrix” sounds nice compared to now too, actually — genteel, even. I’d like a steak, please.