President Obama and Hillary Clinton made statements on Sunday indicating that the post-San Bernardino focus on rooting out radicalized individuals is going to lead to heightened pressure on social media sites and tech companies that provide unbreakable end-to-end encryption.
In his Oval Office speech on Sunday night about the fight against ISIS, President Obama devoted one line in his speech to the topic. “I will urge high-tech and law enforcement leaders to make it harder for terrorists to use technology to escape from justice,” he said.
Meanwhile, Clinton, the Democratic presidential frontrunner, gave a talk at the Brookings Institution where she urged tech companies to deny ISIS “online space,” and waved away concerns about First Amendment issues.
“We’re going to have to have more support from our friends in the technology world to deny online space. Just as we have to destroy [ISIS’s] would-be caliphate, we have to deny them online space,” she said.
“And this is complicated. You’re going to hear all of the usual complaints, you know, freedom of speech, et cetera. But if we truly are in a war against terrorism and we are truly looking for ways to shut off their funding, shut off the flow of foreign fighters, then we’ve got to shut off their means of communicating. It’s more complicated with some of what they do on encrypted apps, and I’m well aware of that, and that requires even more thinking about how to do it.”
A “senior administration official” told Reuters that the White House intends to talk to tech companies in the coming days about developing a “clearer understanding of when we believe social media is being used actively and operationally to promote terrorism.” Major social media sites are already deeply engaged in combating online propaganda and recruitment by Islamic militants.
But Obama’s comments were also clearly related to end-to-end encryption, a once rare but now increasingly common method that assures people that anyone intercepting their communications will simply see a series of seemingly random characters. (Significantly, even the best encryption does not preclude law enforcement or other actors from accessing those communications by hacking a target’s devices, something that is particularly easy for organizations like the FBI or NSA.)
In his comments, Obama was echoing statements by FBI Director James Comey, who is the administration’s chief advocate for finding a way to give law enforcement some sort of special doorway into encrypted communications that does not unduly jeopardize the security of those communications.
The tech industry, however, along with other experts and privacy researchers, have been adamant that no such way exists. Any “backdoor” for law enforcement use could inevitably be abused by bad actors as well, they say.
A Washington Post article in September reported that Obama had decided not to push for legislation that would require an encryption backdoor. But the article also quoted an email from the intelligence community’s top lawyer, Robert S. Litt, in which he told colleagues that congressional support for anti-encryption legislation “could turn in the event of a terrorist attack or criminal event where strong encryption can be shown to have hindered law enforcement.”
Clinton, meanwhile, said that “what we see right now I think is just the beginning of directed attacks and self-radicalization that leads to attacks like what we think happened in San Bernardino. And we’re going to have to ask our technology companies … to help us on this.”
The “threat from radical jihadism has metastasized and become more complex and challenging,” she said. “It’s the nexus of terrorism and technology, and we have a lot of work to do to end it.”
The San Bernardino shootings are also being cited by some Republicans, including presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio, as a reason to reinstate the warrantless bulk collection of domestic telephone data — the one program that was shut down by Congress after NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed a massive, secret surveillance dragnet.
An Associated Press story on Saturday added fuel to the fire when it claimed that as a result of the shutdown, the government could no longer access historical call records by the San Bernardino couple. But as Emptywheel blogger Marcy Wheeler amply explained, the FBI has plenty of other ways of getting the information.
Several analyses of Obama’s comments present themselves:
After I tweeted Obama’s comments on Sunday night, Zack Whittaker, who writes about cybersecurity and privacy for ZDNet, declared the start of a new crypto war. (Crypto War I, in the 1990s, was resolved when the government realized there really wasn’t anything it could do to stop the spread of encryption in the long run.)
if she keeps pushing this i’m voting for trump
Dan,
The President’s Speech – and your rather underwhelming assessment of its implications – has all the hallmarks of the events that followed quickly in the wake of 9/11.
Firstly, that the President has opened a whole load of potentially disastrous doors relating to his immediate and long-term Foreign and Domestic policies – namely the decision to go ANYWHERE and a demand for COOPERATION OR ELSE.
Secondly, that the media (that’s YOU) completely fail to spot the implications of a President’s remarks AGAIN; and even worse, focusing only that which might affect them.
He is the President of America. He does not HINT. He TELLS EVERYONE IN A CODED FORM OF SPEECH WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO and WHAT HE EXPECTS TO BE DONE, THEN HE ACTS AND DEMANDS OTHERS DO THE SAME.
Why do we not back-door all our military weapons? We sell plenty of them abroad. They seem to inevitably fall into the hands of our enemies, where they are used upon us and our allies. Imagine if we had back doors in the Humvees captured by ISIS.
Thus Clinton’s fraudulent logic is revealed.
Our enemies would avoid the backdoors in their own use, and exploit backdoors within equipment we deploy.
Clinton seems a craven usurper, predisposed to weaken righteous citizens and strengthen their enemies.
The problem with back-dooring weapons is that it by definition creates a serious vulnerability. If anyone were to figure out your back door you’re in big trouble.
ISIS aren’t your enemy. They didn’t “fall” into the “wrong hands” – they were given to them.
ISIS / ISIL / Daesh is a bunch of mercenaries and former soldiers from throughout the Muslim world who have also recruited a large number of “patsies”, crazily religious kids prepared to swallow any sort of dizzy fundamentalist bullshit fed to them by their “recruiters”. The mercs/soldiers are busy at work doing what the US and Saudi/Turkey want them doing – destabilising Shi’ite regions – whilst the patsies are busy taking bombs and looking the epitome of what the West sees as terrorists for the cameras, whilst being sent out occasionally to do mad-ass suicide stuff. In a year or so they will mutuate into something else, and then again, and then again.
Young men go off to war easily and willingly when they are isolated and exposed to radicalising indoctrination by a clever agent – be that the US Army with poor kids from Kentucky and Maryland, or ISIS with poor kids from some sandy Islamic shithole.
The first paragraph above is “a modest proposal,” with reasoning by analogy. With obviousness, the proposed strategy would not work. It is easily defeated.
However, the analogy to encrypting consumer devices is not contingent on whether or not the weapons in the analogy were intended to be delivered to our enemies.
Self-radicalization, my ass. What we’re dealing with, for the most part, is radicalization by agents of the FBI, gun-control forces, and others. Conveniently, they also arrange supply of the weapons and ammunition to give force to that radicalization.
Pearl Harbor fooled us all, badly. 9/11, just about as much. And this is more of the same.
“We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society.” — Sec. of State Hillary Clinton
Like something right out of Orwell. Chilling, isn’t it?
For a man who has nothing to say – encryption. IF it were so good how do all these hackers break into computer systems. Double-talk and B. S. They are unable to prevent hackers….and Microsoft puts a back door in every program they write – think of the viruses and how they get in
what you are describing is ‘protection’, encryption basically prevents anyone without the correct key to see true content of a file
Obama and Hillary top sales persons for guns and encryption products they should get a commission.
This might be the “village idiot” comment, but I didn’t see anyone else mention it, and it seems so obvious to me. The San Bernardino shooting was planned between a husband and a wife, presumably from the privacy of their home. I’m pretty sure they didn’t text or email each other from across the house “Hey honey, I got the ammo ready for the shootout tomorrow.” So there is no rational way that one could draw the conclusion that more global electronic surveillance could have had any affect whatsoever on the outcome of that event – or any other event that is planned from homes or public places.
So the fact that both Obama and Clinton are leveraging San Bernardino to grab for more surveillance power, when San Bernardino doesn’t justify it one bit , tells you just how manipulative they are, and how pathologically obsessed with government power (and their own personal power) they are.
Very good point! I’d certainly give you an up arrow if this site supported same.
Torturestan:
One commenter here put it better than I ever could:
You are not at the level of the DEW program. Yet.
Torturestan:
Sorry my Reply button does not work.
“TI journalists, like every single (excepting non-native born) American I have ever known, refuse to believe American on American torture is routine. ”
I see anger and frustration in your words. I understand. But one thing about the quote above:
TI journalists are certainly not in the same class as mainstream journalism. But having said that, let me hastily add that they are also a product of the same culture that socializes the rest of society. And as such, are not exempt from the general influences of socialization and acculturation that can make them indistinguishable from the average Joe who disbelieves the American on American torture. I could expand on this but I choose not to at this time.
If it is any comfort to you: the rest of the world believes the tortures. Iraqis have written about it. Africans know about it. And so do some Europeans.
Now regarding the particular torture you experience: another bit of info.
These tortures comprise a vast array of programs where different technologies and techniques are used on different targets. On some, sonics are used. On others it is Voice To Skull. On others it is weaponized nanotechnologies. On others it is exotic Neuro-active drugs. On others it ADS. Or ELF. On some it is a combinations of several as in my case. And there are many more that I have not mentioned here.
That your particular torture lacks some of the other component tools used to implement mind control – yes mind control is at the core of all this whether you want to believe that or not – does not necessarily mean that targets of weaponized technologies that are not used on you are not real targets, or that those technologies do not exist.
The varieties in torture techniques are designed to engender precisely the unfortunate sentiments that you hold which only aid in dividing the TI community so that no collective, and comprehensive action could ever be launched against the perpetrators of these horrific crimes. As well as provide justification for journalism for sitting on the margins, quietly.
Just never give in or give up. Be prepared to die but because they have killed thousands quietly and will continue to do so. Just refuse to live to die. And do what you can to expose.
But above all, hold on to who you are. All that you believe. Obey the laws. And be a master at managing your emotions.
And you will make their effort a costly fool’s adventure.
Simple solution to fix the problem of scared politicians currently running the Federal government.
1) update your w2 so that you take home all your earnings and zero is allocated to fed tax
2) don’t pay your taxes until the federal government straitens itself up
Henry David Thoreau was a smart man and is someone you should look into. The term we want to use is civil disobedience. If there is a problem of people voting with out understanding what they are doing(sorry to say this but yes the majority of this occurs because of the elderly voting patterns) then instead of trying to fix a pretty unfixable problem, fix the problem of you giving your hard earned money away for something that does not share your voice. If a large enough group of people do this then the government will not be able to do anything about it. You cant arrest people/cease/garnish etc.. if there are no employees because they can not afford to pay the wages to people in the IRS, FBI,NSA etc…. Also notice i’m not saying dont pay state tax. Pay state tax please. These are the people who will in the end be governing you if this were to occur.
This is a very viable non-violent solution. However the probability of it occurring is slim …. unless this anti encryption propaganda pans out … then i could see something of this nature happening.
I am sick and tired of these white collar criminals in our government spewing their lies. They clearly do not realize that you can only push the populace so far, and we are indeed very close to that limit. It is a distinct likelihood, I believe, that we are reaching a point in this country where a reprise of what transpired a couple of hundred years ago will be required to put out the new trash and to get things back on track.
absolutely true. we are going to see a second american revolution within our lifetimes.
maybe we’ll finally find out why the details of the CIA assassination of JFK and how they allowed 9/11 to happen or even created
any software genius can tell you that nothing can be done to spy on somebody communication these days.. NOTHING
So that this come from the white house is very very disturbing.. wtf do they think they are doing.. spying is useless.. PREVENT!
Obama’s speech: “First, I’d like to thank all the “returds” who voted for me…twice.”
The only people dumber than those who voted for Obama are those who voted for his Republican opponents. Except that the more privileged members of United Snakes electorate were not dumb at all to vote for these scum.
Both elections dumb AND dumber, hard to place the order, got me also.
“I will urge high-tech and law enforcement leaders to make it harder for terrorists to use technology to escape from justice,”
Interesting. The real terrorists sit in Washington and don’t use technology to escape from justice. Obama talking about terrorists is speaking of himself and using false flag operations to strip Americans of their liberties. This is how a Fascist dictatorship works.
Did you see all the deals for holiday shopping?
Oh the govt doesn’t like encryption on our computers?
Well, that’s all I need to know.
What brand is the best and would you recommend?
If you ask explicitly….
Google for “open source elliptic curve cryptography” or “open source public key cryptography”. You’ll find Academic Signature and GnuPG. Have a look at both websites – the tools are both free.
I am using both. GnuPG is maintained by Werner Koch, the other one is maintained by me.
Readers of TI are most welcome as new users.
Werners GnuPG is widely used in the field and sticks to the OpenPGP standard. My Academic Signature allows elliptic curve encryption up to 1024 bit, The US and other 5-eyes cuntries will only allow 521 at most.
We both don’t do it for the money. My goal is to forge the strongest privacy blade available from anywhere.
Due to a weird coincidence, shortly after this post, the server academic signature is hosted on got into trouble. The’re working on fixing it.
For the time being you can find Academic Signature also on the alternate server http://www.academic-signature.org
Why would any true loyal Americans, be they Democrat or Republican, Male or Female, White,Black,Hispanic or other, vote for a Democrat or a Republican when both .parties have shown their willingness to subvert the Constitution, our Civil Liberties, and our National Sovereignty through the TPP (The Trans Pacific Partnership) and have been doing so for decades & the Governments own records have proven this to be true ! We are being sold out by the Democrats & Republicans ! It now has become a choice between Fascism or Liberty & Fascism is winning !
Both parties have been complicit in this criminal activity. Some will say they don’t want to waste their vote, but you are already wasting your vote on Democrats & Republicans because they are the ones who have already betrayed us ! This should be a joint effort on the part of all Americans, Democrats,Republicans & Independent voters ! Organize now before its to late ! Your liberty is at stake and that of your children & grandchildren !
We get the Government we deserve, and nothing will change until we stop electing Democrats & Republicans after all they are the ones subverting the Constitution, & they must be held to account both politically & legally !
Both parties are owned by corporate America, two sides of the same coin ! Wise up America .
No more lies, excuses, rationalizations,or justifications, the public needs to hold these officials to account to the fullest extent of the law under Title 18 sec. 241 & 242 (Google it), so any future traitors will know there will be consequences to such behavior.
Unaccountable power is absolute power, & is absolutely corrupt !
As Mr. Snowden said the Politicians are afraid of you ! Now is the time exercise you power, you
may not get another chance !
REMEMBER: POLITICIANS, BUREAUCRATS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON.
Some words of true Patriots are as follows, as opposed to the words of false flag patriotism of today.
He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.
Benjamin Franklin
He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
Benjamin Franklin
Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms of government those
entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
Thomas Jefferson
Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
Thomas Jefferson.
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security,”
Thomas Jefferson wrote this in the Declaration of Independence .
In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
James Madison
Liberty may be endangered by the abuse of liberty, but also by the abuse of power.
James Madison
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry
“We the People are the rightful masters of BOTH Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution”
Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln
We should not forget the warning of President Eisenhower .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqWfWxqh_0
The NSA is controlled & operated by the DOD & the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) Private Corporations.
“The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.”
President John F. Kennedy
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel
April 27, 1961
As is said in the law, falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. (“False in one thing, false in all things” is an instruction given to jurors: if they find that a witness lied about an important matter, they are entitled to ignore everything else that witness said.) The Government has been lieing to the American public for decades !
As a reminder Hermann Goering said at the Nuremberg Trials .
“The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”
Benito Mussolini
Time to start removing the corporate Congress from office & defunding the NSA & the Police Surveillance state, to pre 9-11 levels & force them to comply with the law & impose jail time for non compliance under USC Title 18 Sec. 241 & 242 (Google it) .
Only after the members of our 3 branches of Government, both Republicans & Democrats who conspired in this criminal conspiracy & violated the Constitution are prosecuted, should Mr. Snowden be charged with a crime. Prosecute those who broke the law first, in chronological order, then the Government can get around to Mr Snowden .
The short version of the above is as follows:
Any Government or Party that doesn’t abide by the Constitution does not deserve our respect or support ! ! ! They are traitors !
Disclaimer: Be advised it is possible, that this communication is being monitored by the National Security Agency or GCHQ. I neither condone or support any such policy, by any Government authority or third party that does not comply, as stipulated by the 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
“Fascism will come to the United States under the guise of NATIONAL SECURITY.”
Jim Garrison, 1967
“When you tear out a man’s tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you’re only telling the world that you fear what he might say.”
America killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims, maybe millions indirectly. That’s the truth, and it’s the ammunition which ISIS is utilizing. Governments only have one weapon when someone brings the truth to bear. That’s the entire reason the First Amendment exists.
The San Bernardino shooters (and the many like them) were killed to keep them from identifying the non-Muslim agents who incited them and provided them with weapons and ammunition.
Same as Lee Harvey Oswald.
Does Hillary really understand computers and email. Putting blinkers on and saying what and what can not be on the internet is a bad sign. Same old stuff. We are going to keep these young muslims from becoming radicalized. Good luck with that. Teenagers can get around restrictions placed by their parents. Why do we think telling someone not to “look” will keep them from wanting to see whats hidden from them. Ridiculous. Just more political grandstanding.
unfortunately this is math, the encryption algorithms are public knowledge. Aside from the fact that coded phrases and double meanings inside an agreed upon lexicon are also available to circumvent a clear understanding of events that may be about to take place. Further, I have not seen direct evidence that the use of decrypted information would have altered or informed authorities to take an action that would have prevented any event to date. If someone has an authoritative source identifying such an instance I would like to read it. In the meantime, small cells of motivated people are very difficult to stop… I would like to know how they amassed such a large stockpile of ammunition without some kind of alert going off somewhere… that, to me, is a much more direct indicator of a possible event and a suspicious behavior with a clear forward indicator for observation.
This is a detour from the main topic.
I have never done drugs in my life. Beer yes but that’s not considered a drug.
Now the state of Oregon has passed a law that legalized growing marijuana. The limit is 4 plants.
Next year, if I am still alive, I plan to start from seed, growing 4 plants. I want to dig a hole 3 feet deep and 6 wide for each plant, and fill it with the richest organic soil. This is where the transplants will grow until each of the plants grows 3 stories high and 12 feet wide!
Now I don’ t smoke the leaf either. So here is the question:
What variety of the plant yields the best quality product and where do I get the seed ?
My thanks in advance.
See “Hightimes” then baked in brownies.
Dear Mister Hope-And-Change-You-Can-Believe-In just keeps on lookin’ spookier and spookier… pun NOT intended… More and more drawn, haunted, drained…
Considering the company he keeps (or the companies that keep him) this is not surprising, nor would we logically expect someone blessing murder – anywhere, anytime, for any reason at all well beyond scrutiny or inverted suggestion of conspiracy theory; planned weekly with meetings of rather-not-so-nice-corporate and Military Complected Types – to look hearty, hale, overtly and radiantly loving like, say… the Dalai Lama.
It’s interesting how the wearers of such dirty underwear (Gitmo, Droning, Kill-Lists, 9-11 closed door testimony, Assange/Manning/Snowdens’ disclosures, “faulty” intel, torture, etc, etc, etc) that they keep (or attempt to) very, very, very sanctified-ly and sacrosanctly secret are all up in arms about others’ uber-hype-ably via MainStreamMemeWhispering so-called “encryption”…
How about an article on how to determine if one’s phone has been hacked.
“But if we truly are in a war against terrorism..”
The key words in this quote are
“If” and “truly.”
Put these words together and you see that this is merely
speculation which is designed to obscure the facts.
The facts are that the fake USA has promoted and encouraged
terrorism and that it is a very profitable business venture
which includes all of the fake USA’s allies.
Dave:
Point well taken. But oh if only the drunks had oil !
It’s not Moslems per see but what Moslems have, although to the nit-wits, its just all Moslems.
Do you think anyone is going to waste their time going after Bangladesh a Moslem country? Not a chance in hell. They have no oil. In fact, they have nothing but perennial floods every monsoon season. Not worth it.
It’s all about resources that we want to forcibly grab right from the mouths of their rightful owners.
And so we slaughter them and have children’s dead bodies wash off the shores, and we will continue to do so until – according to Borat – the very last lizard in the desert is dead.
“But oh if only the drunks had oil ! ”
And if our federal, state and local governments, at the behest of the auto, bus lines, tire & rubber, oil and highway construction industries hadn’t spent about six decades creating a built environment so dependent upon personal automobile transportation and trucking that real enforcement or restrictions on unsafe operation would be an existential threat to our economy.
Drunk drivers kill over 10,000 people a year. If the intent were to prevent deaths from illegal activities, then there would be calls for constant monitoring of all bars, thousands of sting operations and entrapment of the like the FBI does to Islamic terrorist wannabes or the mentally challenged, and politicians would be pushing for tech that would make it impossible for anyone to drive drunk.
Saving lives isn’t the motivation then, neither is preventing deaths from illegal activity. I’m not sure what the motivation is–maybe it’s simply irrational fear. Maybe it’s the intent of the perpetrators. Maybe it’s racism or some other ism. But losing your shit and calling for draconian methods to prevent less than 50 deaths a year is completely irrational if at the same time barely anything is proposed to prevent 200 times as many deaths.
Indeed, San Bernardino is a pinprick which warrants no policy changes whatsoever.
Especially as it is now reported that the wife posted a “bayat” on Daesh’s facebook page just before heading out for the shooting. Facebook took it down immediamente, so procedure was followed. Don’t know if they reported it to the FBI, doesn’t matter.
Nothing else could have been done, as these people had never been on the FBI’s radar and there are no laws imposing a limit on the type and number of guns you can have and the ammo for them.
So there are gun laws that could and should be changed, but nothing having anything to do with free speech, privacy, the Internet, software, encryption, etc.
Torturestan:
“Does aiding American torturers give you pleasure, Froomkin? ”
First, my sympathies to you as a fellow TI.
Now, I assume that you experienced difficulties trying to post here and chose to conclude that Froomkin was the culprit. I am not his keeper but I will say this:
You have no idea how important it is to the treasonous torturers to try at all times, to frustrate your every effort including and especially posting here. And there is nothing that they love more than to see you blame it all on Froomkin.
1) They have used an AT&T server to capture my activities while on this website.
2) Just last week, they used ” http://www.hackaday.com” to access my cell phone while I was visiting this site.
3) While on this site, the TI page briefly appeared as an insert on a giant blue screen with white words at the top of the blue screen that read: ” U.S. Central Command” . When I tried to capture the image, the capture feature failed.
None of theIntercept journalists had anything to do with it. If anything, they are likely closely more closely monitored for daring to refuse to suppress the truth.
So pls pause and reflect hard…
“You have no idea how important it is to the treasonous torturers to try at all times, to frustrate your every effort including and especially posting here.”
NONSENSE. I know how much I frustrate the Stasi. Just being alive, happily married, and employed drives them absolutely crazy, for starters.
TI journalists, like every single (excepting non-native born) American I have ever known, refuse to believe American on American torture is routine. Of course, I have relatives in Texas who sent death threats and collaborated with the Stasi, so they are aware, and are one an exception to the rule.
I am not aware of one native born American who has lifted a pinky to help dissident US torture subjects. You?
When I attempt to explain to even those I had naively believed to have a smidgen integrity, they were, 100% of the time, found completely wanting in the civil courage department. (Everybody in the world knows Americans are civil cowards, excepting of course the courageous people helping the Non-Caucasian lives that matter so much). Too scary… too unbelievable… not enough room in their lives to listen to anything about, or think about
“That”
They cringe and flee. Each of the chicken-shits were exclusively native born Americans. Others, not so much.
Here is one example of American Civil Cowardice, from the ACLU:
Me: “Do you have an office I could visit during regular business hours, without an appointment, to talk about a matter best not discussed over email?”
ACLU: “I do not understand your question.”
Granted, Stasi Vermin may have intercepted and replied to that email, as they have done so often. But it is well known the ACLU, The Center For Constitutional Rights, and uniformed Police (not the ununiform — they are too busy stalking and hiding) flee like scared American bunnies when a torture subject approaches. I even shut down the San Jose Police Station on 201 West Mission Street on Saturday, Sept. 26, 2015. Me! I can shut down a US police station by showing up in their parking lot. Brave Patriots!
Reflect on that, and don’t try to scare me or others with your nano-byte attack tales. Not working. American Stasi Vermin do just fine with colonoscopy tubes, needles, scissors, straight-razors, violent provocations on the street and in the workplace, sleep deprivation, hair cutting shears, and the knowledge of where forty four year old scars can be found and used to inflict pain. Not cloaking devices (as per the disinfo/bs site called fightgangstalking.com), no nano-bytes, no mind control, no DEW, no lasers… Just good old fashioned, uber patriotic goon squads in hiding using low-tech tools found in any medical lab or barber shop.
Why do you defend members of an organization actively suppressing the exposure of Stasi torturers? I can guess.
Agreed, the ACLU are no help.
FBI STASI squads are scum.
Fortunately your not at the program level of DEW.
I’d buy a Microwave Leakage Detector down the road.
“and we are truly looking for ways to shut off their funding…”
Like smuggling oil into Turkey and getting millions per day. The State Department claimed oil smuggling was insignificant and not worth worrying about.
All hot air from politicians about ‘destroying’ ISIS and ‘shut off’ their funding.
In ISIS hands there are US made TOW missiles that the US sold to Saudi Arabia.
“But if we truly are in a war against terrorism and…” – Clinton
Are we? Or are we in the middle of the largest power grab in US history that is simply disguised as a war against a concept we can’t even properly define?
Does aiding American torturers give you pleasure, Froomkin? I was just trying to warn jgreen7801 about what slides on that slope. Too scary for you? Too “radicalized”?
“Radicalized” is such a vague and pliable word which could be applied to most authors and commenters here at TI. I include myself in that group. Such a slippery slope upon which “civilization” has been sliding for quite some time is being primed for a lube job.
Ah, maybe I posted under an old, banned email address, and that was what caused the blockage…
Anyway, as I was saying… jgreen7801, you have no idea what you are in for if you ever receive anything remotely close to the kind of treatment US goon squads and their rent-boys & girls (toddlers too!) around the world have been dishing out to me.
If you got it right, and didn’t let ignorance, world-hate, and blood-lust get the best of you back in 2000, 2001, 2003, etc., but were born in reasonably rational, liberal, white environs, you probably got a pass. But if you were whelped by Nazis in Texas then it is likely you were constantly stalked, robbed, harassed, interfered with, and tortured by scum with the intellect of a 13 yr old American brat. Some die after a few years, some last a little longer. Some are remarkably [sic] more resilient. I wonder how and some of your TI buddies here would fare.
The comments down below hit on some important points. You all know more about the past, present and future of our domestic and international policies than I do. Are any of the people writing comments below doing anything to spread their knowledge and make change?
@ Karl
Again, you should leave keep your deep thoughts on the law to yourself as you clearly don’t understand the nuances of it, or the standards of review, factual issues (or the role of the jury as fact-finder in deciding them) and/or the legal precedents at issue.
And the case wasn’t technically a straight 6/5. There were three separate written dissents. Two of them were only joined by three others (making it 7/4 in those instances with the 5th (O’Scannlain) only joining in one section of that dissent) and one was joined by 4 others (make it 6/5 in that instance). But whether it was 6/5 or 7/4 isn’t really relevant. And the US Supreme Court denied cert on it when it had a chance if it thought the 9th circuit majority had gotten it wrong or there was a conflict among the circuits re: FACE which there wasn’t.
But what it most certainly had nothing to do with is this nonsensical pseudo-intellectual jibberish you wrote:
You know what the above is called–bullshit. Particularly bullshit by somebody attempting to pretend they actually know what they are talking about when they don’t. And for the record Glenn generally doesn’t answer stupid questions from stupid people on topics they know nothing about and that he does. That’s why he curtly told you it was a “true threats” case which it was. Otherwise, waste of his time to engage a know-nothing like you. I on the other hand enjoy demonstrating for all to see your moral and intellectual shortcomings.
Planned Parenthood v. Amer. Coalition of Life, 290 F.3d 1058 (9th Cir., 2002) en banc
Very well said!
As Usual,
EA
Nothing that you have said contradicts that which I said. Specific intent weighs the context in which the alleged actions of the defendants took place. In reversing the appeals court decision the 6/5 panel considered whether, or not, the language on the posters in evidence, could be reasonably perceived by the plaintiffs as a serious expression of intent to inflict bodily harm upon them. You have provided the following:
So the applicability of FACE relied upon the courts own judgement as to whether the “wanted” type posters constituted a “true threat” given the context in which they were used. Or, to put it another way, the court concluded that “context may transform a statement lacking expressly threatening language into a ‘true threat.'”
For the consideration of those who are reading our exchange, here is a brief summation of dissenting opinions:
For the dissenters, the majority failed adequately to explain why its test would not apply equally to Charles Evers’s inflammatory pro-civil rights rhetoric that the Supreme Court held was protected speech in NAACP v. Claiborne Hardware Co. Judge Alex Kozinski stressed, as he had in the vacated panel decision, that Mr. Evers gave speeches in which he said that black residents of Claiborne County “who traded with white merchants would be answerable to him” and that “any ‘uncle toms’ who broke the boycott would ‘have their necks broken’ by their own people.” Id. at 1090 (Kozinski, J., dissenting).
Boycott organizers in that case had collected names of those who violated the boycott and publicized them to the community at meetings and in the local newspaper. Id. at 1093-94. Judge Kozinski was unable to find any prior case in which “statements charged with political content and delivered in a public arena” were found to be true threats, and he wrote that the “crushing liability verdict” affirmed by the majority would not be lost on others “who would engage in heated political rhetoric in a wide variety of causes.” Id. at 1100 & n.15.
Judge Marsha Berzon pointed out in a separate dissent that the speech at issue in Planned Parenthood is, “on its face, clearly, indubitably, and quintessentially the kind of communication that is fully protected by the First Amendment,” and “to perceive a threat, one must disregard the actual language used and rely on context to negate the ordinary meaning of the communication.” Id. at 1110 (Berzon, J., dissenting) (emphasis in original). She noted that “[t]his case is proof positive that hard cases make bad law, and that when the case is very hard — meaning that when competing legal and moral imperatives pull with impressive strength in opposite directions — there is the distinct danger of making very bad law.” Id. at 1101 (emphasis in original).
Judge Stephen Reinhardt agreed in a brief opinion, and noted that the majority opinion rejected “the concept that speech made in a political forum on issues of public concern warrants heightened scrutiny.” If this rejection is allowed to stand, he wrote, it will “significantly weaken the First Amendment protections we now enjoy.” He distinguished the majority’s “threat” analysis by noting the “fundamental tenet of First Amendment jurisprudence that political speech in a public arena is fundamentally different from purely private speech directed at an individual.” Id. at 1088 (Reinhardt, J., dissenting).
We have Hillary the con artist 2.0 authoritarian neoliberal likely to be the Democratic nominee, and a pile of theocrats and fascists running for the Republican nomination (Rand Paul being a slight exception, but they’ve already practically killed his campaign). And millions of sheep-like voters who seemingly vote Dem or Repub no matter what those “two” parties do. Our country is so screwed.
Well, may as well go down resisting; I’ll be one of the people trying to collect enough signatures to get Jill Stein on the ballot here in Illinois come spring 2016. http://www.jill2016.com
You go, Joshua H. Voting non-Republican and non-Democrat is our only hope.
Send the message to Washington–We Are Done With The Status Quo.
Well people got on perfectly without the computer and twitter and smartphones time to go back to human contact.
Low-Tech always beats Hi-Tech…
Without the internet all we would have is NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, and Fox. Take your pick.
I’ll take Tolstoy,Doestovesky,Huxely,Orwell and of course Greenwald over any TV.Hi Tech is just awful just look at little children with ipads instead of building a tree fort this is insane.
If we enemies of the United Snakes Empire and of other global crime syndicates were to give up use of modern technology, it would only weaken our ability to subvert those institutions that must be undermined for the sake of life on Earth. It wouldn’t do anything to stop children from using iPads instead of playing in nature.
Electronic protest has nothing on human interaction,as in the old days,one would gather at the candy store,ans sit on chairs and stools and talk.Today its all 7-11 impersonality,with absolutely no community discourse.
That is the root of our helplessness,the human disconnect,where reality is not shared,the MSM defines it instead.
Civil liberties laws are meaningless unless they are kept whole at the greatest moments of fear, when they are most needed.
Unfortunately, our history has shown the opposite to be true…
Civil liberties are meant to be taken away. A new country needs to offer some inducements to its citizens. But once it’s established, it no longer needs to dangle such incentives to make itself viable. It slowly rescinds those liberties via a process of creeping normality. It’s all perfectly natural.
And following your logic, one must conclude that once the ” established [country] ” slowly resci ds those liberties”, it must enter a phase where it renders itself no longer viable ” via a process of creeping normality” that may be “all perfectly natural”.
As the rulers carve out an ever larger share for themselves, there’s the little problem of preventing a revolution. Fortunately, keeping the public distracted with a foreign enemy is a proven stratagem. It may not work forever, but it can work for a very long time.
It will be a lot easier if we just pay the North Koreans to provide us all the information as that are so much more professional in the hacking business. Or we can just hack into their servers where all the information is stored. Our dear Constitution remains unviolated.
Every day in the life of the latest world wide internet the U.S. (secret) police state makes another outlandish claim.
This time the world is supposed to believe that all the metadata the NSA has been collecting since (9/11/2001?) cannot be accessed because the FISA court mandated they stop collecting by Nov 28th, 2015? The F.B.I. has just gone from being ridiculous to being plain stupid for trying to get us to believe this stupid pronouncement.
The leader of the F.B.I., James Comey, would have us believe that the Fed Govt should have had a back door on all of our communications and that would have stopped the San Bernardino shooting? All it would have done -is given the police state (possibly) a way to investigate the shooting -after the fact.
The ink isn’t even dry on the ‘stop order’ of the collecting of Americans’ metadata and already Comey (or is it commie?) is trying to turn back the clock.
He’s not just asking for a magic pony, he’s asking Superman to turn back the Earth!
No one should believe for one minute that the NSA (which is also the FBI: parallel investigations, sharing data, etc) has not made copies of the metadata. And we get more lies from the NSA that “we can’t access our own database”? They both have collected incredible amounts of data on all of us and now they’re trying to get us to believe they can’t find their ass crack with both hands?
What if there were a larger world which existed outside the internet? The NSA could collect all the world’s electronic communications and still miss what was happening in this, for lack of a better name, physical world. Suppose the San Bernadino shooters had made numerous trips to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, or, several days before, practiced at a shooting range. This would have been undetectable by the NSA.
I believe the only solution is to pass a law that requires everyone to be logged into the internet at all times. This would mean they’d always be on the NSA’s radar and couldn’t suddenly disappear into reality.
I think it’s Cummy.
“..we are truly looking for ways to shut off their funding, shut off the flow of foreign fighters, …”
Almost 70 nations, led by the most powerful in the world, sat on their asses for 14 solid months doing nothing while they watched ISIS making millions out of oil sales to one of the “coalition” members, Turkey.
Turkey shot down a Russian plane because the latter bombed ISIS oil convoys, daring to do what the coalition was unwilling or deliberately failed to do.
Turkey denies it needs ISIS to survive in order to continue getting oil from the organization, despite clear satellite images showing a flow of trucks from ISIS territory to Turkey. global research.org confirms the Turkey purchase of oil from ISIS. The United States defends Turkey.
One would have to be an idiot to believe that any of the Western nations bombing Syrians seriously want ISIS gone.
ISIS is too valuable a tool to them to be destroyed as we see with the virtual inaction of 60 plus nations against ISIS in the 14 months of their existence as a “coalition”, until Russia exposed all this.
ISIS will be used to erode civil liberties worldwide. It will be used to justify every draconian law passed. Because that is what ISIS was created for when ‘de -Ba’athification’ was implemented in Iraq, ensuring that an ISIS-like monster would later emerge as the perfect tool and rallying cry for destroying what shreds of civil liberties remain.
No amount of torture will render these facts, false. The torturers have recently paralyzed my diaphragm so I could not breathe while forcing partially digested food into the mouth, effectively causing me to choke while I could not breathe. They released the hold just as I was to pass out.
Yet if my independent mind and the democratic values I uphold are not worth dying for, nothing is worth living for.
Regarding Turkey, the import of ISIS oil has been tied to the brother of president Recep Tayyip Erdogan; journalists reporting the story have been promptly jailed for their efforts. It has been common knowledge for some time that ISIS was selling oil to the Turks, but for a while it did not appear that the Erdogans were involved.
Another fishy aspect to our alliances against ISIS is our insistence of excluding Shiite muslims, because the Shiite forces that can provide the most help are tied to Iran. We simply cannot allow Iran to participate because it would make our decades long blockade, and the rhetoric of countless US politicians out for the sham they are. Meanwhile, our support of so-called moderate Sunnis includes our dear regional allies the Saudis, who for centuries have kept power due to their unholy alliance with the Wahaabists, whose views differ only insignificantly from those of ISIS. Who the fuck do they think they are kidding? (The ignorant majority, that’s who!)
Well said, Pat B. The trouble is that the MSM is a foil for the gov’t./big business, which of course, war is big business. This so-called “war on terror” should be known as a “war on diminishing precious resources- oil and all of the precious metals needed to power our electronic so-called I-phones and such. The bombing raids on ISIL and, indeed the civilians mean crap to the American public. Put boots on the ground and then watch the body bags come home. Disgusted with the whole thing, but can’t do anything but watch civilization self destruct.
They weren’t “sitting on their asses”. They were actively fueling and enabling the violence by sending weapons to extremist opposition groups like al Nusra (al Queda’s Syria branch) and training them. These weapons also got into the hands of ISIS. Leaked government documents provided by Wikileaks have confirmed this. One of them was a leaked DOD report from 2009 that clearly stated the US knew ISIS was going to emerge in Syria and that it would be good opposition to Assad and help topple him (in case anyone was doubting that the US’s main goal was toppling the country’s secular, independent government instead of defeating ISIS). You can watch Mehdi Hasan’s Al Jazeera interview with Michael Flynn (former head of Intelligence) where he shows him that document (which Flynn was shown back then) and questions him about it. Flynn looks like he’s going to shit himself and can’t come up with a coherent answer and just keeps repeating that it “wasn’t my job” to do anything about it.
The politicians in both wings of the Party, including all the presidential wanna-bes, continue their campaign of fear mongering, and continue to play right into the hands of the terrorists of all ilks.
For example: two days ago the NY Times web site featured a chart showing the number of Islamic terrorist mass murders in the US and the number of non-Islamic terrorist murders in the US since 911. The number of non-Islamic terrorist victims was slightly larger, but the important point is that the grand total was fewer than 100. We have approximately 14,000 homicides per year and we are going to war over fewer than 10. Even if you count the 2000+ deaths on 911, the terrorist threat is minuscule compared to other causes.
People should be questioning the reasons for killing thousands of innocents per US citizen killed, invading other countries, throwing away our civil rights, and spending untold sums of money that is badly needed elsewhere on this so-called war. But it appears that no presidential candidate, and nobody in office generally, is willing to face the truth and tell the American public to stop behaving like babies.
Absolutely agree. The joke is that the CDC’s total budget is less than $12 billion ( http://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2016-overview-and-detail-table.pdf ). The U.S. blew *TWO TRILLION* on bullshit wars, and is getting ready to shovel out a trillion more over ten years in lobbyists’ tax exemptions … but once anything serious hits the fan, whether it’s a spontaneous bird flu outbreak or a smallpox attack or everyone in the country mysteriously catches a cold that never ends … all eyes in the world will turn to the CDC, and around the world they’ll be begging for help. But how much help can they give on that shoestring budget? Can they turn surveillance of tweets into surveillance of viral infections in a month? Don’t think so. Our defense is a joke.
Notice how the politicians exploit the increased threat of terrorism to attempt to reduce our freedom, and subvert our Constitutional guarantees.
Never, though, do you hear these politicians talking about *why the terrorism happens in the first place* which would involve explain US imperialism, hegemony, and the neoconservative foreign policy to the public.
Yeah,who started all this idiocy?Zion,and the Western iron clad support of their depredations,and our greed.
Killary: ““And this is complicated. You’re going to hear all of the usual complaints, you know, freedom of speech, et cetera. But . . .”
It’s not really all that complicated:
The only legitimate basis I can see for government limitation of speech WRT the subject at hand would be the “fighting words” exception:
BTW, to the best of my knowledge (coram? Mona? Glenn?) SCOTUS has never upheld a fighting words conviction that didn’t involve a face-to-face encounter.
If that exception applies to any speech (in the press, via social media, flyers on utility poles . . .) regarding recent events, surely it applies to the utterances of, e.g., Donald Trump, and to the hateful, fighting words postings of Nicholas Thalasinos, coworker and victim of the male attacker in the San Bernardino massacre — and to much of the hate speech directed at Muslims every day in the American commercial and social media.
As for Killary’s (and others’) notions of coercing “private” (Facebook, Twitter, web hosts . . .) prohibition of speech they find undesirable, see Glenn’s piece, here, from a few days ago:
Court Ruling Against Chicago Sheriff Proves Thuggish Anti-WikiLeaks Blockade Was Unconstitutional
@ Doug Salzman
SCOTUS hasn’t upheld a “fighting words doctrine” conviction since Chaplinsky. Ever. Last big ones to touch on it were R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul and Snyder v. Phelps.
The problem Prof. Edwin Chemerinsky sees is that it is not necessarily that the state couldn’t theoretically craft a law that banned all “fighting words”. The problem is crafting one in such a narrow way that it isn’t shot down as “overbroad” or “void for vagueness” and/or that can thread the needle of not running afoul of “content-based discrimination” problems.
At least in the casebook we used in law school, which was Prof. Chemerinsky’s (given he’s one of the recognized experts in ConLaw in the US), was that basically the “fighting words doctrine” isn’t really viable, except in the theoretical given Supreme Court’s other First Amendment jurisprudence. At least if my memory is correct I think I’m representing his position fairly accurately. Doesn’t mean other laws aren’t up to the task, or create the effect of holding people accountable for “fighting words”, just that First Amendment issues are difficult to surmount.
Here’s a little primer from Prof. Chemerinsky if you are interested and without having to buy a $300 casebook.
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic979464.files/Sep%2021/Chemerinsky%20Constitutional%20Law%201.pdf
@rrheard
Big thanks!
@rrheard
“Doesn’t mean other laws aren’t up to the task, or create the effect of holding people accountable for ‘fighting words’ . . .”
Or even speech that doesn’t remotely qualify under the accepted definition of fighting words.
A relevant memory began to bubble up when I read your response and, a few minutes ago, became at least somewhat coherent.
In Debs v. United States 249 U.S. 211 (1919), the Court unanimously upheld the provisions of the 1918 Sedition Act (a sweet little add-on to the 1917 Espionage Act) under which Eugene Debs was convicted on the basis of a couple of antiwar speeches and sentenced to prison:
Re: Doug Salzmann & rrheard
Thank you both for contextualizing this discussion with your respective references to the provisions of the 1917 Espionage Act and the 1918 Sedition Act.
With regards to Doug Salzmann’s pertinent offering..
citing J. Murphy’s supposed “…only legitimate basis I can see for government limitation of speech.”; I find no constitutional legitimacy in this language, despite its linguistic eloquence.
Rather than ponder what the Robert’s court might do, would it not be more constructive to contemplate advocating that the Congress, in concert with well-reasoned Constitutional law expertise, update the body of law that was/is so flawed as to support and encourage the current mis-enforcement and adjudication of Constitutional rights?
As Usual,
EA
@Ethan Allen
Sure it would, if we had any reasonable expectation that the Congress we have now, or any version that we’re likely to get over the next few terms, might actually take the action you propose rather than instituting a new Sedition Act, which I’m afraid I think is much more likely.
BTW, I agree with your WRT the constitutional legitimacy (or lack thereof) of the fighting words exception. I probably should have added a qualifying adjective: “ostensibly” legitimate, or something similar.
Hllary’s royalist take on political power dovetails well with her contempt for individual liberties. Yet more reasons that this lifelong Democratic Party primary voter and leftist will never under any circumstances vote for her, a speak a word of support for her quest for power.
“We’re going to have to have more support from our friends in the technology world to deny online space. Just as we have to destroy [ISIS’s] would-be caliphate, we have to deny them online space,”
And by “them” we should all wake up and realize she means “anyone who would post a narrative contrary to what the fascists in charge want”.
Even if it was the most well meaning and loving leaders in charge today, doing what they are doing is an absolute guarantee that a true monster will one day pick up the reins and enslave us all. Why can’t we see this for what it is?
Has Congress enacted an official “Declaration of War”? If so wouldn’t that be Al Queda not ISIS?
If we are going to send U.S. troops to risk life & limb while destroying our Bill of Rights – where is the official declaration by Congress?
No, they have not. But it is in keeping with their practice of handing more and more power over to the executive, as long as they can whine about executive privilege. The last time Congress declared war on anyone was 74 years ago this week, in December 1941.
The radicalization of young Muslin men and women is not the result of internet encryption. Our failure to comprehend this process will result in counterproductive actions – just as it has done for decades. In the process our own civil rights will be attacked. How many Americans have heard of Mohammad Mosaddegh? The democratically elected prime minister of Iran, he was deposed by the CIA in 1953. The Iranians have not forgotten. This is one example out of many of the missteps of the US in the Middle East that have had disastrous consequences. We continue to this day.
Our Bill of Rights…..going….going…..:
http://investmentwatchblog.com/when-you-physically-see-how-much-the-bill-of-rights-has-been-completely-stripped-down-it-all-comes-together/
I’ve been meaning to write one of those for ages. But these people don’t do it right. For example, the Second Amendment is in desperate need of an “unless you’re black” or something, since obviously a lot of people are doing five-year terms for gun ownership. And the “Excessive bail shall not be required” is quite the joke when a lot of people sit in jail awaiting trial, which is to say, awaiting the opportunity to plead guilty in exchange for time served.
Clinton: “The usual complaints like the First Amendment, etc.” It’s the “etc” I like. Good catch, Dan!
Obama’s speech can most easily be condensed into one sentence (which only the insane can truly follow):
A bunch of Sunni religious extremists killed and wounded a bunch of people in California, and a bunch of Sunni religious extremists killed a bunch of people in Paris, therefore the American government should continue financing and arming and supporting the Sunni religious extremist rebels in Syria who are backed by the head-choppers of Saudi Arabia!
The devil with Obama, the Bushes and the Clintons, and Reagan and Jimmy Carter who began this by throwing in with the head-choppers of Saudi Arabia to destabilize the then-secular government of Afghanistan.
Time to understand the most serious and deadly sacrifice of the greatest American hero, Eugene B. Dinkin.
And one of America’s greatest heroines, Julie Sirrs.
Time to impeach Obama!
The United States has now overthrown the government’s of/invaded/occupied/bombed/destroyed five previously secular majority-Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria. Yet the terrorism-loving/funding (and Capitalism-worshiping) hell-hole of Saudi Arabia stays in tact.
I should have said *stays in tact and firmly in the good graces & pockets of the US and its ‘allies’.
Alright, I found a coherent statement of Dinkin’s case here: https://books.google.com/books?id=xgdECgAAQBAJ&pg=PA360
However, I want to see the citations to the original documents, and as much verification of those as possible, for obvious reasons.
It is possible that some alternative explanation of precognition or coincidence applies, but first, let’s get to the primary data; it’s impossible to make that call without seeing exactly what was said pre-assassination.
If they (whether Republicans or Democrats) want to end terrorism at home, they need to stop their own terrorism abroad. I wish more Americans would wake up to this simple truth and demand better from their so-called leaders. But how many know about the history of US foreign policy and the terrible things we’ve been doing in every corner of the world to dominate other people & lands for the last 70 years? People can’t connect the dots if they don’t know this history. People need to turn off garbage like CNN and start reading. Don’t be afraid of dissent. There’s a narrative out there that is crucial in understanding current events, and you’re not going to hear it on cable news (not even on MSNBC).
Here is “One Weird Trick” to get rid of Daesh:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43617.htm
I call it Yankee come home.Our only solution to this Zionist inspired nonsense of divide and conquer,which has conquered US.
As millions die everywhere,statistics kept from US by our master,Zion.What evil.
Could Hillary just switch parties already and give us the election we deserve. She’d be a fantastic Republican candidate. I mean that in complete seriousness. She’d be happier, they’d have a real candidate, and the country would actually get to vote on People vs. Oligarchy.
It really is just amazing how much she should be the Republican candidate. And quite frankly as a DINO candidate she could quite easily put a Republican running mate on her ticket.
You are right RPDC! Hillary (& the rest of the “democratic party”) are just like the republican party.
Like I’ve said before, they are Coke & Pepsi, two shades of the same terrible sickening and corrosive flavor!
Hillary wants to blow off the first amendment, and Bernie Sanders is a proponent of the NSA -and incidentally wants to imprison Edward Snowden if & when he comes back to the U.S. Now if that doesn’t sound like the republicans…
And?
>”The “threat from radical jihadism has metastasized and become more complex and challenging,” she said. “It’s the nexus of terrorism and technology, and we have a lot of work to do to end it.””
Obviously, Clinton will declare war on ‘radical jihadism’ asap!
(And totally… that ‘nexus’ betwixt terrorism and technology is clearly what’s tripping up the un-endable war on terrorism and everlasting peace on earth.)
There is a lot ‘radicalizing’ going on Dan. Lots of radicalizing on the Sun. ‘news’ shows for example … the only notable exception [imho] being Dalia Mogahed on MTP who definitely helped clear the rhume from Chucky’s head.
~ postscript; I hope Glenn Greenwald, or some other ‘radical’ at TI, could/can free his ass from the confines of 140 twitterville rd. long enough to elaborate on this ‘radicalizing’ phenomenon?
The truth is that human beings have always killed each other – ideology just provides the pretext.
Examine any conflict in history – you’ll find the rationale used by each side to kill one another seems absurd in retrospect. That’s because the ideology doesn’t matter – people, especially young men, seek conflict and the ideology is only an insignia for identifying your own side. When they don’t have an enemy, they will create one.
The same phenomenon occurs among elephants.
Censoring ISIS is just plain stupid. They have one of the dumbest ideologies on Earth — but when you deny them the chance to speak, they can make it sound like it is the secret truth. And when they do speak to their believers, it gives them a sense of belonging, of shared access to secret, sacred, and enlightened perspective no one else has. When we debate them, we will parrot lines from the media that are ignorant of their arguments and of recent developments – when they debate us, they will know what we have heard and be in a position to dispute it.
It is wrong to censor Nazis, KKK, Stalinists for the same reason. When the German Bund filled Madison Square Garden, it was an immense propaganda victory …. for their opponents! When twenty people from the KKK march, ten thousand people join hands in racial unity around them.
I understand the concern about fund raising, and I can’t say watching ISIS closely is a bad idea. But the best and most effective way to keep them from using encryption is to BACK OFF and let them feel they can speak freely, sparing any harsh measures for those who actually enter the criminal conspiracy through overt acts.
>”Censoring ISIS is just plain stupid. They have one of the dumbest ideologies on Earth… ”
Can’t argue with the first sentence. But, serious question, why do you think they, ISIS e.g., garner such a large following (at one point, estimated at 10,000/mo. iirc!) if their ideology is so dumb?
I don’t really trust either side’s estimates of the estimates – one wants to exaggerate it to make itself look bigger, the other wants to exaggerate it to get more security-paranoia funding. I’d like to know how ISIS gets 10,000 fighters a month and can’t manage an attack anywhere in the world that is more serious than some of the more competent American school shooters!
However many they do get, I bet it’s not a matter of ideology. It’s a matter of them getting (they hope) a steady paycheck and the chance to buy a vagina for ten bucks at the local slave auction. That’s pretty compelling. And hell, if I were a pedophile I’d probably be looking for ways to justify radical Islam myself, because they certainly beat out the U.S. on that particular index of freedom. But that’s not ideology, that’s services — and services … can be interrupted. If the American military couldn’t keep the lights on in Iraq, I imagine ISIS can’t guarantee a completely drone-free slave auction to its recruits either. Nor can they be too sure the paychecks will keep flowing, the way oil wells out there keep having mishaps.
It isn’t ideology that brings in recruits; it’s the people who have lost sons and fathers and husbands and daughters killed by the thousands by the western powers who now crave revenge against those who kill with drones and bombs and foreign troops in their own country. It has ever been so.
German invasions and atrocities were enough to unite the world against them. the small country of Vietnam resisted for decades against the greatest military power on earth just as a bunch of colonists resisted England the most powerful country in the 18th Century.
Invaded people will resist. When you can’t match up face to face militarily, you must resort to guerrilla warfare which is what Isis, Al Queda, and others have done just as we did with England.
If we are to find a way out of this ‘little slog’ (think of Rumsfeld and Cheney) we need to stop bombing entire populations and treat this as criminal actions and focus our efforts on ONLY the perpetrators of criminal acts. Arrest as many as possible without killing them and let the people in their own countries subject them to their own chosen method of justice.
What you say makes sense, perfect sense. YET IT DOESN’T HAPPEN. I honestly don’t know why. I’d have thought that, say, after the defeat of Japan, that there would be thousands of former POWs or their relatives going into that country as “tourists” to whip people to death with telegraph wire or poke them with bayonets, but it didn’t happen. I’d have thought Vietnam would be the source of an ongoing anti-American terrorist movement, but it didn’t happen. People have all kinds of emotions, you would think, but they only actually move when someone opens the moneybags and dangles something of value in front of their noses.
That’s because we haven’t even allowed the Middle East to grieve and start picking up the pieces. Past atrocities prime the pump (killed a generation of parents in 2003 – now the kids are grown up), but it’s the ongoing occupation that they’re fighting against.
Liberty’s always a casualty of escalating wars. Even more problematic when the wars are predicted to be interminable.