Former President Bill Clinton on Monday met in secret (no press allowed) with roughly 100 leaders of South Florida’s Jewish community, and, as the Times of Israel reports, “He vowed that, if elected, Hillary Clinton would make it one of her top priorities to strengthen the U.S.-Israel alliance.” He also “stressed the close bond that he and his wife have with the State of Israel.”
It may be tempting to dismiss this as standard, vapid Clintonian politicking: adeptly telling everyone what they want to hear and making them believe it. After all, is it even physically possible to “strengthen the U.S.-Israel alliance” beyond what it already entails: billions of dollars in American taxpayer money transferred every year, sophisticated weapons fed to Israel as it bombs its defenseless neighbors, blindly loyal diplomatic support and protection for everything it does?
But Bill Clinton’s vow of even greater support for Israel is completely consistent with what Hillary Clinton herself has been telling American Jewish audiences for months. In November, she published an op-ed in The Forward in which she vowed to strengthen relations not only with Israel, but also with its extremist prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.
“I have stood with Israel my entire career,” she proclaimed. Indeed, “as secretary of state, [she] requested more assistance for Israel every year.” Moreover, she added, “I defended Israel from isolation and attacks at the United Nations and other international settings, including opposing the biased Goldstone report [which documented widespread Israeli war crimes in Gaza].”
Clinton media operatives such as Jonathan Alter have tried to undermine the Sanders campaign by claiming that only Sanders, but not Clinton, has committed the sin of criticizing Obama: “Hillary stopped criticizing Obama in 2008, when [Obama] was nominee; Sanders stopped in 2015, so he could run as Dem.” Aside from being creepy — it’s actually healthy to criticize a president and pathological to refuse to do so — this framework is also blatantly false. Clinton, in her book and in interviews, has often criticized Obama for being insufficiently hawkish: making clear that she wanted to be more militaristic than the Democratic president who has literally bombed seven predominantly Muslim countries (thus far).
Her comments on Israel have similarly contained implicit criticisms of Obama’s foreign policy: namely, that he has created or at least allowed too much animosity with Netanyahu. In her Forward op-ed, she wrote that the Israeli prime minister’s “upcoming visit to Washington is an opportunity to reaffirm the unbreakable bonds of friendship and unity between the people and governments of the United States and Israel.” She pointedly added: “The alliance between our two nations transcends politics. It is and should always be a commitment that unites us, not a wedge that divides us.” And in case her message is unclear, she added this campaign promise: “I would also invite the Israeli prime minister to the White House in my first month in office.”
Last month, Clinton wrote an even more extreme op-ed in the Jewish Journal, one that made even clearer that she intends to change Obama’s policy to make it even more “pro-Israel.” It begins: “In this time of terrorism and turmoil, the alliance between the United States and Israel is more important than ever. To meet the many challenges we face, we have to take our relationship to the next level.”
“With every passing year, we must tie the bonds tighter,” she wrote. Tie those bonds tighter. Thus:
As part of this effort, we need to ensure that Israel continues to maintain its qualitative military edge. The United States should further bolster Israeli air defenses and help develop better tunnel detection technology to prevent arms smuggling and kidnapping. We should also expand high-level U.S.-Israel strategic consultations.
As always, there is not a word about the oppression and brutality imposed on Palestinians as part of Israel’s decadeslong occupation. She does not even acknowledge, let alone express opposition to, Israel’s repeated, civilian-slaughtering bombing of the open-air prison in Gaza. That’s because for Clinton — like the progressive establishment that supports her — the suffering and violence imposed on Palestinians literally do not exist. None of this is mentioned, even in passing, in the endless parade of pro-Clinton articles pouring forth from progressive media outlets.
Beyond progressive indifference, Clinton has been able to spout such extremist rhetoric with little notice because Bernie Sanders’ views on Israel/Palestine (like his foreign policy views generally) are, at best, unclear. Like many American Jews, particularly of his generation, he has long viewed Israel favorably, as a crucial protective refuge after the Holocaust. But while he is far from radical on these matters, he at least has been more willing than the standard Democrat, and certainly more willing than Clinton, to express criticisms of Israel. Still, his demonstrated preference for focusing on domestic issues at the expense of foreign policy has unfortunately enabled Clinton to get away with all sorts of extremism and pandering in this area.
Clinton partisans — being Clinton partisans — would, if they ever did deign to address Israel/Palestine, undoubtedly justify Clinton’s hawkishness on the ground of political necessity: that she could never win if she did not demonstrate steadfast devotion to the Israeli government. But for all his foreign policy excesses, including on Israel, Obama has proven that a national politician can be at least mildly more adversarial to Israeli leaders and still retain support. And notably, there is at least one politician who rejects the view that one must cling to standard pro-Israel orthodoxy in order to win; just yesterday, Donald Trump vowed “neutrality” on Israel/Palestine.
As I noted a couple of weeks ago, Clinton advocates are understandably desperate to manufacture the most trivial controversies because the alternative is to defend her candidacy based on her prior actions and current beliefs (that tactic was actually pioneered by then-Clinton operative Dick Morris, who had his client turn the 1996 election into a discussion of profound topics such as school uniforms). If you were a pro-Clinton progressive, would you want to defend her continuous vows to “strengthen” U.S. support for the Netanyahu government and ensure that every year “we must tie the bonds tighter”?
The year is 2019. Israel is airlifted on a gigantic airplane and sewn onto Nevada. Israel declares Wyoming to not recognize its existence and overthrows the governor in a coup while the IMF stalls on a relief plan for out of work coal workers.
Two words…Arab Spring.
Only Americans could overlook the fact that Shillary is a psychopath. Thank you, Glenn.
I am NOT against foreign aid to Israel. As a taxpayer I am against the American government taking my money and giving it to Israel or any other country. To date America has GIVEN over Israel over $100 billion dollars. I want Israel to return that money so we can improve our schools hospitals infrastructure etc
So the US government denies universal healthcare, education and subsidies for abortion to its citizens, while forcing them to help subsidize those programs for Israelis. Got it.
Is Mona an idiot?
Me:
“In France only the State is authorized to boycott products or services from other countries. (French Penal Code 225-2). Citizens buy or sell whatever they want, but convincing other citizens not to buy from Arabic or Israeli stores because of the nationality of the producers or service providers has always been considered illegal under French laws.”
Mona: “That is false (Tellingly, you quote neither the statute nor direct language from the decision itself stating what you claim, or from any French legal source.)”
France Penal Code : (Sorry in French) available here from the official publication of France laws:
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006165298&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070719
Article 225-1
(Definition of what constitutes discrimination against a legal entity. Differenciation based on the NATION or the state the legal entity belongs to constitutes discrimination)
“Constitue également une discrimination toute distinction opérée entre les personnes morales à raison de l’origine, du sexe, de la situation de famille, de l’apparence physique, du patronyme, du lieu de résidence, de l’état de santé, du handicap, des caractéristiques génétiques, des moeurs, de l’orientation ou identité sexuelle, de l’âge, des opinions politiques, des activités syndicales, de l’appartenance ou de la non-appartenance, vraie ou supposée, à une ethnie, une nation, une race ou une religion déterminée des membres ou de certains membres de ces personnes morales.”
France Penal Code Article 225-2:
(Punishment for those who committed the following acts based on the definition of what constitutes discrimination in article 225-1)
La discrimination définie aux articles 225-1 et 225-1-1, commise à l’égard d’une personne physique ou morale, est punie de trois ans d’emprisonnement et de 45 000 euros d’amende lorsqu’elle consiste :
1° A refuser la fourniture d’un bien ou d’un service ;
2° A entraver l’exercice normal d’une activité économique quelconque ;
(Preventing the normal economic activity)
3° A refuser d’embaucher, à sanctionner ou à licencier une personne ;
This a statement from Ghislain Poissonier, well known French magistrate who disagreed with the ruling of the Cour de Cassation:
“En France, le boycott des produits issus d’un Etat étranger constitue une prérogative étatique : seuls les embargos décidés par l’Etat sont autorisés. Dans l’Hexagone, sans cet aval politique, le boycott des produits originaires d’un autre Etat peut constituer un acte discriminatoire fondé sur la nationalité consistant à entraver l’exercice normal d’une activité économique, un délit prévu par l’article 225-2, 2° du code pénal et puni de trois ans d’emprisonnement et de 45 000 euros d’amende. Toutefois, ce texte ne va pas, et ne peut aller, jusqu’à incriminer les choix de consommation des citoyens qui boycotteraient en conscience certains produits dans le cadre de leur consommation privée.”
http://www.france-palestine.org/BDS-Questions-a-G-Poissonnier-apres-les-arrets-de-la-Cour-de-Cassation
Translation (by me): In France, the boycott of products from a foreign state is a prerogative of the government: ONLY EMBARGOES DECIDED BY THE STATE ARE AUTHORIZED…The boycott of products coming from other States can constitute a discriminatory act … that consists of preventing normal economic activity, a crime under article 225-2 of the penal code…However, the text does not incriminate what a citizen decides to consume…”
Mona stated I did not quote the statute neither any French legal sources. Am I wrong to call her an idiot?
As I told you, the statute plainly does not reserve the right to advocate a boycott a nation to the state. As I further told you, the recent French court decision now adds publicly advocating the boycott of Israel to what constitutes incitement to hatred and hate speech per a statute that DOES NOT say that only the state may boycott a state. (I also read French.)
The magistrate is stating the result of the court’s decision, which he considers erroneous. He does not, at all, think the statute, properly applied, compels that result.
The entire decision is grounded in a ban on hate speech. Not a statute that provides only the state may advocate a boycott.
You were and are wrong in your initial criticism of Greenwald’s statements about the French court’s decision. It is driven by French law banning incitement to hatred and hate speech.
Me: “In France only the State is authorized to boycott products and services from another country”
Mona: ” that is false”
Magistrate Poissonier:
“En France, le boycott des produits issus d’un Etat étranger constitue une prérogative étatique : seuls les embargos décidés par l’Etat sont autorisés. ”
“a statute that DOES NOT say that only the state may boycott a state. (I also read French.)”
The penal code made it clear that individuals or groups cannot prevent or hinder the economic activity of a legal entity. That is the same penal code that was used to prevent Arab companies from boycotting Israeli companies in the 70s. This law was added in the penal code on June 7th 1977 No. 77-574 and legislators called it :” anti boycott” law.
Mona to me: I read French. You are wrong ( Poissonier is wrong too)
WTF?
“You were and are wrong in your initial criticism of Greenwald’s statements about the French court’s decision. It is driven by French law banning incitement to hatred and hate speech.”
Initial Claim:
Me: you, Greenwald, or anybody can go to France and say whatever they want about Israel.
Mona: Claim 1 is false. It is illegal to wear a T shirt stating “Boycott Israel” in France.
Me: Claim 1 is not false. The ruling against BDS does not prevent anybody from taking a personal position against Israel. Show me part of the ruling that states otherwise. The ruling is about BDS as an organization that proceeds in a way that can only result in discrimination against Israeli producers. That is illegal under the French penal code.
Me: the Cour de Cassation used Article 24 of the law of Freedom of Press.
Mona: you are wrong.
Me: Taoufiq Tahani must be above French laws. He strongly criticizes Israel, openly supports boycott of Israeli products and he is still free. Or maybe he is not violating any laws by expressing his personal opinions about Israel (as I stated)
Mona (probable response): you are wrong. Everybody who disagrees with me is wrong. Even when others provide examples to back up their points, they are wrong.
1) I state Israeli authorities ignore murders in the West Bank and I cannot provide examples to support that statement. I am right and everybody is wrong.
2) I support international laws. Nobody should give Israel weapons because they violate international laws. But Hamas should get weapons although it violates international laws. Nonsense, but I am right and everybody is wrong.
3) The US should not support human rights violators such as Saudi Arabia. The US should have normal relations with Iran, a top human rights violators according to major human rights organizations. Nonsense, but I am right and everybody is wrong.
Conclusion: Mona is a brain damaged idiot who supports her nonsense arguments by asking Greenwald to ban commentators here.
I’m not going to go retrieve your myriad comments scattered across several comments pages. You claimed Glenn erred in his analysis because, you shrieked, the ruling in France was not based on hate speech law, but rather that France simply reserves the right to boycott a country to the state of France. (Had you not, we would not still be having this debate.) This was and is false.
That law, whatever it is, if it is even still on the books, is not what controlled in the decision cited in Glenn’s article, or by the French court he referred to. Nobody but you has made such a claim.
Indeed, it seems a Parisian criminal appellate court in 2011 was also unaware of what seems to be known only by you.
Nothing to do with a boycott law. Nothing. Nor do you link anything indicating that such a law controlled the decision Glenn referred to.
You. Are. Wrong.
Packing your comments with juvenile insults does not change the reality of your deep wrongness.
(Disclaimer: I do not support the Netanhayu government, or the violence which the right-wing Likud Party metes out to Palestinians.)
Cheesy hit pieces are known by their alleged sources. In this case, Clinton delivered a major address to the Brookings Institute in December, 2015, an address apparently unknown to INtercept writer Glenn Greenwald. From that Brookings address, tiny excerpts were extracted for an article in the Jewish Journal, some which were quoted by author Greenwald in his Intercept article, which some of is repeated here by TruthDig, snips which by no means represent Hillary Clinton’s full Middle East policy position.
And so the blind lead the blind leading the blind leading the blind, and the myth of uncompromising Clinton Zionism grows on the rotten vine of anti-Netanyahu zeal. Here is some of Clinton’s full address that the Jewish Journal, and Greenwald, and Intercept, and Truthdig, and all of their readers should know, and admit, about Clinton’s views on the Middle East:
“Only a two-state solution can provide Palestinians independence, sovereignty and dignity, and provide Israelis the secure and recognized borders of a democratic, Jewish state. Now, it’s no secret that the most recent efforts to advance direct negotiations didn’t yield much tangible progress. But I remain convinced and I think it’s important we all remain convinced, that peace is possible. So I refuse to give up on the goal of two states for two people. And no matter how unattainable it may seem at the moment, Israelis and Palestinians shouldn’t give up on it either.
“Instead, they should demand that their leaders seek every opportunity to demonstrate their commitment. Inaction is not an option. And a ‘one-state solution’ is no solution. It is a prescription for endless conflict. Israelis deserve security, recognition, and a normal life free from terror. And Palestinians should be able to govern themselves in their own state, in peace and dignity. Now for most Americans, it is hard to imagine the reality that exists for many Palestinians and recently for Israelis.”
Clinton’s ideas about easing Israeli-Arab tensions, an act which can lead to resolving the Palestinian crisis:
“Today, in the Middle East, Israel and its Arab neighbors find that many of their strategic interests are increasingly aligned. That creates room for greater coordination. Neither Israel nor its Arab neighbors want to see Iran increase its influence in the region or violent jihadists gain footholds. So we should encourage more intelligence sharing and security cooperation like the quiet partnership between Israel and Egypt to stabilize the Sinai. And you may have seen that Israel plans to open a diplomatic mission in the UAE to participate in the International Renewable Energy Agency, which I was proud to support locating in Abu Dhabi. Imagine how that kind of step could be followed by broader diplomatic engagement.
“Converging interests between Israel and key Arab states may make it possible to promote progress on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, and clearly progress between Israelis and Palestinians could contribute toward greater cooperation between Israel and Arabs. Right now, Arab leaders could send a powerful message by reviving and updating the Arab Peace Initiative and laying out a process for normalizing relations with Israel and accepting it as a Jewish state alongside an independent Palestine. And Israel could seize the opportunity to directly respond to such an initiative. This is no magic wand, but there’s a real strategic opportunity worth exploring.”
And Hillary Clinton’s view of Muslims and Islam:
“I think it’s important to remind ourselves that Islam itself is not our adversary. This is not, and we should not let it become a ‘clash of civilizations.’ It is a clash between hate and hope. And the vast majority of Muslims are on our side of the battle unless we drive them away. We can’t buy into the very narrative that radical jihadists use to recruit new followers or alienate partners we want and need at home and abroad with reckless rhetoric. Declaring war on Islam or demonizing the Muslim-American community is not only counter to our values, it plays right into the hands of terrorists.
“Muslim-Americans are our neighbors, co-workers, loved ones, friends. Many are working every day all over our country to prevent radicalization. We should be supporting them, not scapegoating them. But at the same time, none of us can close our eyes to the fact that we do face enemies who use Islam to justify slaughtering innocent people. We have to stop them and we will. Radical jihadists, like so many adversaries in our history, underestimate the strength of our national character. Americans will not cower or cave. And we will not turn on each other or turn on our principles. We will defeat those who threaten us.”
So we see from the full text that Mr. Greenwald’s critique of Hillary Clinton is fatally flawed, either by his unwitting acceptance of a misleading, biased editing, or by knowingly citing the biased article which leads readers to believe Clinton has no respect for Palestinians or Muslims.
In either event, Mr. Greenwald’s analysis is not worth the ink it took to write it. Intercept and Truthdig—and any other media outlet that has published it—should either remove it from the Internet or issue disclaimers acknowledging its glaring failure as a serious critique of the former Secretary of State.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/16/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-palestinian-state/ Netanyahu: No Palestinian State On My Watch
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/1.647212 “If I’m Elected There Will Be No Palestinian State”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/world/middleeast/benjamin-netanyahu-campaign-settlement.html?_r=0 Netanyahu Says No to Statehood for Palestinians
FYI…And there was NEVER the notion…ever. As the lip service suppressed the reality of stealing Palestinian land…that is all too well known.
The Internet is replete with reputable sources (including Roman Catholic ones) describing how it is that Jews in the West became known for finance and banking. It is important to understand, that centuries ago Christians believed all interest-bearing loans constituted “usury.” Yet, they needed loans.
One site puts it this way
@Mona
Shylock lives, is what you are saying.
I love your hasbarist take on history. Jewish bankers demanded exorbitant payment for loans to the most desperate of borrowers.
The church on the other hand allowed you to tithe whatever you could afford.
Which system provides the most benefit to the commoner?
Greed is a powerful motivator that cuts both ways.
What evidence do you have that Jewish bankers behave differently from non-Jewish bankers? Banking is not Church activity.
You’re ascribing all kinds of terrible behavior to Jews, as if they’re special, as if such characteristics are not common to humans in general. Whites sympathized with White South Africa. It doesn’t make Whites the devil. Yes there are some Jews who overlook Israeli behavior. It doesn’t make Jews the devil. Human beings are tribal. It’s a terrible situation, but we are. It’s part of our DNA. In the 21st century that’s going to be the challenge to overcome. And you’re not doing a very good job at it.
I was responding to this tripe from Mona.
Apparently, some generalizations are OK sometimes. She is saying Jews have a natural reason to be bankers … eye-roll … they were banned from most businesses just because … eye-roll … so I tossed in the church’s viewpoint on charity vs. greed. (that’s an historical perspective)
You said
Who claims exception more than any other group?
Gator bids us farewell for the hate after spreading love of himself and his tribe.
If a white/blonde/blue spouted his pride it’d be derision aplenty.
People in North America talk about pride to escape their insecurities. Every marginalized group talks about their “pride,” as a way of activism. I wish they wouldn’t, but they do. But it’s not the same as White Pride. Your equating any Jewish pride that Gator might feel to White pride sound disingenuous at best, and ridiculous and mean spirited if I think about it for 5 seconds.
The most desperate of borrowers are typically the worst credit risks and have a much higher breakeven yield. That is a fact of the world and has nothing to do with a banker’s religion or ethnicity. This is the reason payday lenders are so expensive — they are by definition lending to people living from paycheck to paycheck. To stay in business, they have to make loans that are expected to pay enough to mitigate the inevitable losses on many of the loans or else suffer bankruptcy. Anyway, stupid people misunderstand them as well. Some people find racism (or antisemitism or whatever) much easier than reading books.
And, as AtheistinChief points out, there is no difference between jewish and non-jewish bankers in terms of charged interest rates. There are good banker that charge rates commensurate with risk and there are other lenders on their way to bankruptcy.
Most definitely the Jewish banker is in your scenario. The lender is providing a need service, for a price. The Church is providing an unneeded disservice, for a price. Note “tithing” is paying a God that doesn’t exist for nothing in return, yet you pay interest in return for money sooner (which can be a lifesaver).
Macroman
Economist, Former Banker, Gentile
For centuries, the Catholic Church preached that all interest-bearing loans constituted usury and forbid any Christian to lend money with interest. They didn’t grasp the time value of money and considered interest to be an “unnatural” use of money.
Jews were prohibited from many professions in this same era in the Christian West. But Catholic kings, merchants and noblemen borrowed money as much as they could from the only people allowed to lend it — Jews.
And it came to pass, that the Christian West, that left Jews with little means of making a living save for moneylending, stigmatized them for doing what they needed done but could not themselves do. It became a vicious antisemitic trope, one that “nuf said” is very fond of because he’s an antisemite. One of an increasing number of such participating here.
Good god Mona, you really are a pip.
Perhaps the church realized that extracting profit is a form of greed. Especially if the profit increases as the direness of the borrower increases. It’s like haggling with a drowning man on the value of your effort to save his life.
That an observant Jew is prohibited from saving the life of a gentile might go a long way to generating distrust.
What the f are you talking about man? An observant Muslim is supposed to kill Atheists, and Kafirs. An observant Sikh is supposed to be at war with Muslims. An observant Christian is supposed to kill his neighbor if s/he works on the Sabbath and kill his children if they talk back. An observant Hindu is supposed to burn widows on the pyre with their dead husbands. An observant Jew, I’m sure is supposed to do terrible things also. Nobody on this fkin planet is an “observant” anything. You’re talking about Jews like Sam Harris talks about Muslims. Calm down and re-evaluate. If you have a grievance, it most definitely is not against Jews. The world is a terrible place and it’s not because of Jews. You and I live in North America because somebody killed the Indians. But you and I think we’re better than an Israeli settler. Ask a Native American and let’s see how s/he feels about the rest of us being here. Israel might be doing something now, but we’ve all been doing it to each other forever.
You seem like a perfectly cogent, articulate writer who can make an argument quite well. From what I’ve read by you, I’m reasonably certain that your mind functions at a high capacity. Why you’re completely bent on what Jews are doing as a monolithic group, is beyond me. You need to calm down and re-evaluate. What you’re saying about Jews, I can say about Muslims, Christians or Hindus. You’re being completely unreasonable.
OMG, AIC, have you not figured it out yet? Nuf is just a reflection; he’s not “real.” He’s the reflection that all the hasbarists hurl at us, he’s the mirror reflection of all that hasbarist hate. Do you need me to make it clearer for you? If you do, I will try.
http://www.noahidelaw.org/ The Case Against Noahide Law
http://www.noahidelaw.org/why-repeal-public-law-102-14-and-noahide-law/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/public-law-102-14-honor-anti-gentile-rabbi/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/exhibit-e-the-divine-code-and-the-chief-rabbis-of-israel/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/noahide-law-the-pharisees-and-the-babylonian-talmud/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/noahide-law-public-law-102-14-was-passed-by-only-four-congressmen/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/iajlj-and-copla-noahide-law-and-talmudic-execution-in-the-usa/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/us-president-and-supreme-court-justices-praise-jewish-law/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/is-it-anti-semitic-to-criticize-noahide-law/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/exhibit-h-christians-under-noahide-law/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/lgbtq-under-noahide-law/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/adultery-under-noahide-law-only-a-crime-for-women/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/murder-under-noahide-law-but-what-counts-as-murder/ **Only applies to non Jews**
http://www.noahidelaw.org/noahide-law-against-theft-jew-can-steal-from-non-jews/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/noahide-judges-upholding-theocratic-law/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/the-noahide-law-against-idolatry-prohibit-much-more-than-just-bowing-before-stone/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/racism/
http://www.noahidelaw.org/what-is-the-difference-between-a-ger-toshav-and-a-noahide/
http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/noahide_laws.htm
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha.
I wondered why stuff wasn’t free …
Why do American banks skim ~3% of every debit/credit transaction while they reap huge returns on the interest on credit. In Europe, banks pay the merchant for the opportunity to earn interest on credit sales.
In America, you receive a tax-deduction for donations to one foreign country only. Thanks, Congress; making Israel first. A congress sans critics of Israel but loaded with venom for Islam.
Tithing is how the church funds its charitable activities. The more you are able to share with others is rewarded with respect and admiration for the ability to help many. (at least that’s the general idea)
So what? What does that make Europe, some kind of haven. Can somebody be European in Europe if they don’t look European? Can somebody be Chinese in China if they don’t look Chinese? How about Japan. Is banking the only problem with the world? North America is 100 times better than Europe, or China or Japan, or Australia, in multiple ways.
Israel is a political issue here, sure. In France the great French made BDS illegal.
And as Macroman explained, banking is about risk. It’s not about social justice or about drowning people. If you play roulette and bet on a set of numbers you get one kind of odds. If you bet on only one number, you get higher odds, because the risk that you’ll make it are higher. That’s what determines interest rates. Risk. Not Jews.
Oh, so you know that God does not exist? I can’t wait to hear your proof.
You have to prove him/her that God exists. It is not for the atheist to prove you that God or gods exist.
Oh, then I guess we’re dead in the water then. No matter: I did not have my hopes up high anyway. C’est la guerre.
It’s asking someone to prove a negative, and you can do it just as effectively in “proving” that the Wizard of Oz and Santa Claus exist.
If you could indict her for lack of empathy, pathological war mongers would make her both judge and jury.
Indict her Dano.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/us-made-weapons-prevent-gaza-man-seeing-his-son/15671
Luay Subuh was playing with his baby son Baker when he stopped talking. Luay sat in silence for a moment, then said: “I wish I could see him — even once.”
Yes Occupied Americans…shame, shame, shame on our anti semitism. We have forsaken the worship of Jews and their Talmudic darkness of death. Shame on us that we don’t care for them more than the oppressed Palestinians that they murder in cold blood every day. Don’t cry out when it comes to your home and family just like the 70 years of absolute suffering Palestinians have lived with behind walls and barbed wire…in their own land.
http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=770378 Israeli Forces Raid Hospital Where Hunger Striker al-Qiq is Detained
All in the name of “anti semitism”, “Nazi”, and “Jew Hatred”…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W22rtTpibQQ
American Tax dollars and extortion of an Occupied America through words to silence this abomination.
Instead it should be in the name of the true Occupied US American Parties that assist in this horror…Rep/Dem/Lib/Soc/ blah blah blah
AIPAC American Israel Public Affairs Committee. And if you don’t agree with them, take their bribes, bow down to them and worship the Jewish State, you are called an Anti-semite, Jew Hater, and Nazi.
Ezra Pound (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound)
Outraged by the carnage of World War I, Pound lost faith in England and blamed the war on usury and international capitalism. He moved to Italy in 1924, and throughout the 1930s and 1940s he embraced Benito Mussolini’s Italian Fascism, expressed support for Adolf Hitler, and wrote for publications owned by British fascist Oswald Mosley. During World War II he was paid by the Italian government to make hundreds of radio broadcasts criticizing the United States, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Jews, as a result of which he was arrested by American forces in Italy in 1945 on charges of treason, after which he spent months in detention in a U.S. military camp in Pisa, including three weeks in a six-by-six-foot outdoor steel cage that he said triggered a mental breakdown, “when the raft broke and the waters went over me.” Deemed unfit to stand trial, he was incarcerated in St. Elizabeths psychiatric hospital in Washington, D.C., for over 12 years.[2]
….Simply astounding Occupied America…that if you oppose war this is what the Jewry will do to you!!!
This is what the “anti semitism” charge will get you…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAzUhycGxwQ&ebc=ANyPxKpABKSGV2OGsFp4jH5Z0q5uM-W3J12RMWSS0G7Tmls83syiDsoVYE-Bzb4EPR8Pzs7S7NUt
Non of the Occupied American candidates give their disapproval of this abomination. The “silencing of rage”…
Horrible corrupt woman, even a conservative like Trump makes more sense on Israel/Palestine conflict than her.
Don’t get carried away. Trump says different things to different people. He occasionally criticizes Israel but he has made it clear that he is in league with Netanyahu.
I hate her like Maureen Dowd on steroids; since the first 60 minutes TV piece lying about Gennifer Flowers and touting the superiority of non cookie baking careerists. Whaaat? It takes a village of damn blind democrats to not see Israel destroying Palestinians. It’s like they got stuck on that Leon Uris “Exodus” book in college. And Hillary is the worst in this regard, as you explain.
Once again, Glenn, you have hit the nail on the head to use a very overused cliche. The pro-Israel position of Hillary Clinton is not surprising and it pervasive in most Democratic candidates-even Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders(although they probably criticize Israel more Clinton has). Max Blumenthal has written or commented about this and he has come to the conclusion that the only course for Israel is to go for BDS and work to isolate Israel from the world community as was done to other countries before. This problem exists in Canada where the New Democratic Party(the social democratic party) and the Liberal Party(the Democratic Party)have taken pro-Israel positions that are far away from their supporters. NDP leader Tom Mulchair has said that he supports Israel because of the fact that his wife is a Sephardic Jew, who immigated to Montreal. The fact is, that she will face far less discrimination in Quebec(a province with its own history of racism and tolerance)than she would in Israel as Max’s book Goliath shows. These positions make it difficult to make a peace resolution to the conflict in that region. I hope that people, Jews and Gentiles, can work to change the culture so peace can imagined.
Max wrote about something else in GOLIATH, relevant to anti-BDS steps being taken by Western governments, I never hear of in the stenography media. He reported how Jews in many parts of Israel and the occupied territories regularly boycott all Arab / Muslim businesses.
Israel and America both truly excel in their nonchalant racist hypocrisy.
Funny how you wish people could get along and then you delineate ‘Jews and others.
Exception often?
Wow… that’s the first cogent argument I’ve heard for voting for Hillary.
Go H!
Then you haven’t been paying attention to Donald Trump’s twitter feed:
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/01/support-israels-separation/
If you are a fan of warmongering lunacy that makes Donald Trump’s anti-Muslim raving sound legitimate, then certainly Hillary is your candidate.
The weak point of course is that that is fucking insane and will continue to drag this country into Hell for the sake of an overrated old world settler-colony motivated by fear, racism, and bravado, while taking the Middle East — Israel included — down with it.
The incivility, name calling, and group shaming in this thread is extremely disappointing.
And these are just some of the good things that are happening here.
There’s plenty of evidence that terrorism has nothing to do with the religion of Islam. Here’s Mehdi Hasan’s short video on it:
https://amp.twimg.com/v/55c7aed1-3132-4b24-8253-0a42a4792d3e
HRC wraps herself up in Obama’s blackness (like putting on blackface) and uses race to go after black voters vs economic issues like systemic poverty and income inequality or even the war on drugs or mass incarceration (since husband Bill’s Presidential policies were behind much of this, resulting in devastating consequences for black families). But to inoculate herself and win against her Jewish rival Sanders, she associates herself with today’s Republican-loved, reactionary leadership of Israel, the Likud/Home Party coalition that has done everything in its power to undermine and discredit President Obama. Hey, Zionism isn’t Judaism, HRC. Stop playing the apartheid game to win votes. And it sure didn’t take long to wipe off that blackface when courting the Sheldon Addleson Jewish vote, did it? Hmmmmm.
It should come as no surprise that Bill Clinton supports strengthening America’s alliance with the extremist, Likud-run government of Israel that seems intent on establishing a system of apartheid in the West Bank.
While Clinton was a student at Georgetown University, he sent a postcard to his grandmother (whom he addressed as “Mammaw”) in a nursing home in Hope, Arkansas. To say the least, it was a ‘racially insensitive’ postcard (showing a barefoot black male “polishing” a watermelon).
P.S. Here is a closer look at the front of Bill Clinton’s ‘racially insensitive’ postcard (showing a barefoot black male “polishing” a watermelon).
Sheesh, between the actual hasbarists and the actual anti-Semitic crap getting flung around this thread really turned to shit.
Prime example of why the I/P situation has been intractable for decades.
Yeah. Endlessly fucking depressing.
I do need to point out, though, that virulent anti-Semitism in the ME itself (unlike the ugliness spewed by some of our fellow Westerners here) grew more or less in the wake of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent growth of Zionism in the late 19th and 20th centuries.
Gawd. I just caught up on the the thread, after having to do real work today, for a change.
Even more depressing than I thought.
Mona: excellent work today.
~Doug
Yes, good work by Mona. I agree. But I think there’s more of a nuance to what Nuf Said is writing than pure anti-Semitism. He sounds like a Palestinian who’s been personally affected by Israel, and he’s blurring the line between Israelis, and Jews everywhere else, because 85% of Hollywood execs are Jewish.
That bit about Hitler and the Jews he spewed when replying to Louise is not defensible. He really does have a large antisemitic cast.
I looked for that comment by him. Couldn’t find it. Must have been sanitized. Yes it sounds bad :/
What is more indefensible than Mona calling for links to be removed on the grounds they are “Nazi” sites? Did Glenn not defend the Nazi’s right to free speech?
I brought up the Biden quote from the site Mona wanted banned. I had never heard that speech and, had Mona’s request for the link to be suppressed been granted, she would have succeeded in suppressing information.
That Mona feels she has the right to sanitize the world for the sake of god-knows-what is infuriating.
Mona flat out denied calling for Biden’s speech to be suppressed. That she feels there is a distinction between calling for the deletion of a link to a story vs calling for the portion of the article to be deleted is the most rank behavior imaginable.
Mona still refuses to answer the question, “Why is it OK for Biden to laud praise on the 85% Jewish-controlled film-industry?”
Biden himself used the 85% number. The audience was quite pleased with his praise.
He’s been around Glenn’s comments for many years. I don’t think he’s a Palestinian or an Arab or Muslim; I’ve never picked up any hint of that.
Well, there is definitely a deep animus and a continuous resistance to reason. But he’s also going on about Mearsheimer and Walt, who by the way, I disagree with, on the thrust of their argument.
Atheist in chief doesn’t hold with M-W;hahahahah-obvious Zionist.
Hold your idiots closer,Mona.
Thanks, Doug. All this hatred and/or lack of empathy is deeply distressing, whether directed at Jews, Arabs or anyone. Victims become victimizers, and it seems to never end. All one can do is try to maintain understanding of our common humanity and our nature– that sounds trite, but it’s true.
Yeah Mona. Nice work carrying the water. I’ve just been a bit too busy to get into it.
All the anti Arab and black slurs always come from supporters of Zion.
Which arouse emotions in humans,some leading to hatred.
Calling for the extermination of any people is of course wrong,and evil.But to refuse to see why there is that hatred is childish liberal hosehockey.
Believe it or not,I don’t hate anyone,but sometimes events make one write or utter words of emotions we really don’t believe,and which make us hypocrites,but hey,the actual reality makes our(some) words irrelevant and the holier than thou finger pointing ludicrous.
What’s the score,kenneth?^3,000 for Zion and 1,on a penalty shot with no goalie,for Palestine.sheesh.
And no mercy rule either.
Why do they hate(dislike,despised,or are disgusted towards) us(Israel)?
Really now,its the twilight zone.The outer limits.
What a deeply unpleasant apologia for rank antisemitism. No person of, or descended from, Christian Western culture has the least excuse for such depravity.
Depravity?What are you talking about?I am for peace love and understanding,you clown.They,Zionists are not.They are the depraved.
People like you,that cloud the issue with handwringing BS,are the block in the road of justice.
Your contention that people who have been wronged will not hate their oppressor is ludicrous.
Again,whats the score?The Palestinians have been shut out,since 1948.Unbelievable sometimes here,typical blowhard holier than thou yuppie elitists,immersed in a false narrative.
What you are doing is vile and depraved. The anti-antisemitism of the Christian West is repugnant and indefensible. THAT is the antisemitism you are defending by supporting links to articles that cite Henry Makow, David Duke (he’s the goddam KKK you fucking freak!) and Ezra Pound.
You people are disgusting and I so hope Glenn does some housecleaning. The stench in here is bad.
HA HA HA HA HA!
“I am for peace love and understanding,you clown.”
Here’s a Salon piece on a recent piece in Haaretz re: Lebanon. Follow the internal links.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/18/prominent_american_professor_proposes_that_israel_flatten_beirut_a_1_million_person_city_it_previously_decimated/
This is a perfect illustration of precisely what I’m arguing below with regard to Israel’s immoral policies and why, until Israel changes course, I can never support the state of Israel. Whether it be Lebanon or Palestinians, the Israeli regime is very much as a matter of policy committed to collective punishment which is a violation of international law/Geneva conventions.
Shirley you can’t be serious.
You know goddamn well its because the Zionist own the media which controls our pols and people,in a lockdown of discourse on the reality of Israel Palestine,the ME and the world.
The Palestinians have made innumerable concessions,while the Zionists have made none,other than not killing all the Muslims,Christians,Druze whomever under their sway.
Shall we give them a medal?
The MSM is “all in” for Hillary Clinton and her staunch support for Israel.
Hillary’s good friend and one of her prime benefactors, Haim Saban, even bought “The Onion” so he could help with more pro-Hillary propaganda:
http://investmentwatchblog.com/owner-of-the-onion-openly-admits-to-buying-up-american-media-to-influence-people-politically-and-to-make-them-more-pro-israel/
What is the “actual anti-Semitic crap” that’s being flung around? The worst I see are (somewhat vitriolic) anti-Israel sentiment.
The notion that there is some sort of parity of blame is problematic. Obviously any racial or ethnic tension anywhere — between whites and blacks in the US, between whites and blacks in South Africa, between European colonists and indigenous people, between British colonists and the Irish, etc can be reduced to two sides fighting. That whitewashes inequality between the sides. One of those two sides is always essentially governing over the other (slavery; colonialism; apartheid; sectarian rule, etc). So claiming that one side is reacting with angry rhetoric to the other side essentially reduces the two sides to a formal dispute without recognizing the inequality of governance in question. If only one side is drawing the lines, the laws, the checkpoints, etc while the other is governed upon without any meaningful control over their own affairs (let alone the affairs of the group that is dominating them) then this sets up a false dichotomy.
Hilary should really ease up on cosying up to Netanyaooo. His predecessor Olmert just started a jail term and ex-President Katsev is still in jail on rape charges. What can support for a country well defined by its leaders bring Hilary? Nothin more or less than bundles of money from Morris Adler. She really has sold her soul and her integrity for that moment of power that the presidency may bring her. Ol’ Trump is beginning to look sort of attractive.
Bernie Sanders has called Hillary Clinton’s bluff. She’s said she’ll release transcripts of her Goldman Sachs speeches when others release their speeches. Sanders just did.
Yeah, but she didn’t say “Bernie.” She said “others.” Do you not see what a genius she is? Of course the rest of us are fools who wont see through her genius. The Clintons are so brilliant. “Wicked Smart!”
Yes, she’ll say all the Repubs gotta do it, too. But Bernie and his supporters are now well-positioned to keep the issue alive.
Somehow I feel she stole Nevada.A caucus is not a democratic vote by the people,but a closed party activist event,controlled by the DNC in Vegas,the most corrupt state in America,(gambling.vice)
Just commenting,not looking for a conversation,please.
“she stole Nevada.”
My parents live in Vegas, they’re old, and the Jewish members in their planned community are pushing hard for Hillary as the best hope for Israel … and now, back to the show, no conversation required.
This is how they caucus. Very modern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTwXvRt6tyM
Now a German bank is attacking BDS and is poised to revoke the account of BDS Germany. The bank is a subsidiary of a French entity.
Palestinians are kept unarmed, deprived of any means to resist their oppressors. The common result is that they are mercilessly slaughtered.
The video at this link shows yet another instance of a Palestinian being slaughtered trying to stab Israeli soldiers (euphemistically called “border police), not civilians. In the video did not pose an immediate threat to anyone but was met with barrage of bullets, including well after he was on the ground and quite dead.
This is the daily reality we Americans help pay for. But let us save our sermons for Hamas’ toy rockets, eh?
Are u actually trying to defend someone who was trying to STAB innocent people? STAB!
Really?
This discussion has now officially become a laughable joke. Your own apathy to all except Jewish people is now exposed and has a name: Hatred.
pffft. That “innocent” person was an Israeli soldier. Assisting in the oppression of Palestinians at a “checkpoint.” These soldiers could have apprehended him, but instead sent a barrage of bullets at him in a vile display of literal overkill.
Now THAT is hatred — of a person they are oppressing.
This comments section is deeply infested with actual anti-semites. We’ve got folks approvingly linking to articles citing David Duke, Henry Makow, and Ezra Pound on the subject of Jews.
I object, and told by a regular here that I’m trying to censor “facts.” All Jews who are Zionists are considered bad — notwithstanding that especially the older among them came of age in the shadow of the Holocaust.
No people in history have had a more understandable motive for the crimes and terrorism committed by Zionists. Warrior Zionism is still not redeemed, and the same sympathy for those crimes should be extended to the deeply oppressed Palestinians vis-a-vis their crimes. (Zionists making a big noise about Palestinian terrorism are acting with outrageous hypocrisy.)
While it is true that Zionists have used and abused the fact of the Holocaust, it did happen. Moreover, it was the culmination of centuries of vicious Jew-hatred in the West and Russia.
No people have had greater excuse for being driven to immoral and depraved means of securing a fortress state. Indeed, if they could have done it without the crimes committed against the indigenous Arabs, there would be very little reason to oppose Zionism.
Antisemitism is evil. All of you should be deeply ashamed.
Bull shit. Ask the Armenians, Rwandans, First nations, and on, throughout history.
You do the hasbarist’s work when you spread such.
There is no excuse for the behavior of the state of Israel.
I do not reply to the antisemite calling itself “nuf said.”
You act as if you are God. Who are you, self described moderator, judge, prosecutor and historian? You have hijacked comments, accused the brethren, bleed tears for oppressed Palestinians but suppresses truth, claims innocence for the obvious powers that be, put words into peoples mouths, assumes a persons standing by calling them anti semites, all the while sitting on your throne at TI. “It’s a shame to witness a self righteous self declared authority as yourself”. PS…now who is the liar. And a reason TI might lose it’s readers.
http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
And I left out the fact that only You have the right to Free Speech. Please get over yourself and while your at it make an apology to the Palestinians for your aiding and abetting their destruction.
This is a privately owned venue. I have no free speech rights here except as against the state, and neither do antisemites such as yourself.
May ALL of your accusations against me fall upon your own head. You are evil and those who you deceive I feel sorry for. Indeed, the evil one comes as an angel of light and you have demon-strated that perfectly. You are the very reason Israel ‘do what they do’. You are a fake just like they are…and there is no enlightenment in you.
Someone here made a mention of you being a lawyer? Funny, how that fits into the beast injustice system and it makes me very glad I don’t need one. You are self serving with a lot of lip service just like all of these politicians and want-a-be’s. Aside from your embargo on so-called anti semites (which you can’t clearly see as yourself)…I’m glad that TI at least allows the freedom of speech that MSM has cut off. Maybe you should join them and get a paycheck…I heard they pay hasbarists.
You are an actual antisemite. I’ve been called an antisemite more times than I can count, and when coming from hasbara-ists it doesn’t bother me in the least.
But there is real antisemitism, and you are it. And btw, this site does delete and ban actual antisemites. It depends on several variables, including whether Glenn Greenwald is around.
Spare me the threats…I could care less.
You invite trouble…you thrive on it just like cancer. Reap what you sow.
Just FYI, that was not a “threat.” It was a point of information since you seemed to think that in the name of “freedom of speech” antisemitic comments are always allowed to stand in Greenwald’s columns.
I’ve seen him delete antisemitic comments here and also going back many years to Salon– indeed, once a deletion took my outraged reply with it. As I said, it isn’t consistent and depends on multiple variables.
Fish ’em out Mona…Where are my anti semite comments?
“But there is real antisemitism, and you are it. And btw, this site does delete and ban actual antisemites. It depends on several variables, including whether Glenn Greenwald is around.”
Well now, I guess you are the official fill-in when GG isn’t around?
Just like many other replies to you here ‘ask’ for you to provide proof of your accusations, you come back with baseless attacks because that is what you hide behind. Pathetic.
If GG or the other authorities here want to delete my so-called anti semitic remarks, comments or replies….not to mention the slanderous attacks that “you” have made to me and others…by all means do it.
Also to GG I want to thank you for giving, reporting, and warning about the issues of Free Speech and it’s suppression.
But I also want to express that some people are hell bent to silence that even here. Thank you for the courage to stand against MSM and allowing the common person (however common and obscure they are) to have a voice in trying to find a sense of balance and truth to lies that have been perpetrated far too long. May the Muhammad el-Qeeq’s, the Steven Salaita’s, the ever silenced and oppressed brothers and sisters, widows and orphans of far too many people that the West and Israel has murdered, tortured, imprisoned, raped, beaten, and left without their home be free once and for all. I commend Brazil for giving you that privilege and of South America for not aiding and abetting in this obscene gross injustice.
And as far as Mona’s personal attacks toward me as her self described ‘anti jewish’ in the form of ‘anti semitism’ be evident. I do not call anyone these things…Jew’s call themselves Jew’s I don’t. People are people that bleed the same color of blood…and if Jew’s are against Israel then let them be heard…let them come away from their title to become part of the human race “equally”. Shalowm, Salam, Peace
You link to batshit crazy screeds about Hitler and Jewish bankers citing and quoting such antisemitic cranks as David Duke, Henry Makow and Ezra Pound. And when called on it, you double down.
If you think Glenn Greenwald, or most of his readers, are anything but bored or contemptuous of such bullshit, you are quite wrong. Glenn would cite such moronic crap only for the purpose of demonstrating something negative, never approvingly.
(He and I were reading such idiocy 15-20 years ago when we had antisemitic clients spewing it. We nevertheless defended their right to so spew without state sanction. Doesn’t necessarily mean he’d tolerate it here.)
Your preposterous “thanks” to him are also, well, preposterous.
I have never and I repeat “never” quoted any antisemitic “cranks” (whatever that is) as David Duke, Henry Makow and Ezra Pound. I don’t even know these men nor do I read their words. You Mona, made them into quotes then labeled it. And the bankers are a fact and what I did was link the truth.
Furthermore, I have no more words for you…I wrote to GG to thank “him” personally.
And to make it clear…in your freedom of speech you have cursed and accused myself and others…what a way to abuse a freedom.
You LINKED to depraved antisemtitic crankery. Did you not “read the words” at the links you offered?
And yet again, you double down about those links and the sick cranks they quote, and you say this: “And the bankers are a fact and what I did was link the truth.” Makow, Pound and Duke do not speak the “truth” about bankers and/or Jews. It is disgusting to pretend they do.
You are confused, and if not antisemitic, incapable of even comprehending what it is. Either way, I object to and reject to your point of view.
No soup for you either. Where on earth did you learn to talk like this? You sound like religious grandmother heaping curses. So if Mona is not for the death and destruction of Israel, she’s fake? What theory is that?
I hope you don’t interact with children.
No. There is no divine entity who rails against base bigotry. I, a mere human, do that.
But, Mona, view it from this perspective–2% of the U.S. population hold 72% of the top jobs in banking, trade and regulation. Does that not strike you as a bit odd?
How many of those 51 top executives are female (51% of U.S. population), black (13%), Latino (17%), Asian (5%), Muslim (1)? I don’t support quotas per se, but the imbalance is glaring.
Not the least bit “odd.” The Christian West, for centuries, left it to the Jews to be the “moneylenders,” because the Catholic Church and other Christian sects held that Christians could not morally charge interest. (They eventually got over it; the Vatican now runs it’s own corrupt bank.) Jews were prohibited from most other professions and ghettoized, so, they specialized in the field left to them — finance.
For Jews in the West to specialize in finance is not much different than Greeks running diners, Chinese over-represented in laundries and various other ethnic correlations with certain occupations.
No, “approvingly” is in your mind. The article cited has a quote from a Biden speech where he praises the 85% Jewish control of the film-industry (haven’t I said this before?) and you, -Mona- called for the link to be pulled, without addressing the question of Biden’s pro-Semitic remark.
You show disdain for me by refusing to address me directly. meh. You then resort to third party attack, which has been sanitized, and I measure your persona with a chuckle.
You really disqualify your ability to reason with a statement like that. It shows your deep position greatly enhanced…as a racist against the Palestinian people I would say. Hatred cannot bequeath any form of reason, how ever distorted it may look, it is not reason but hate!
Mona, your comment is exemplary as usual. Have you read “Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years” by Israel Shahak. He explains in great detail the complex history of European anti-semitism. It is a sordid story, as one could imagine, and it provided me a better appreciation of root causes within and external to the European Jewish community. A worthy read if you haven’t already.
Thanks for the recommendation. That is something I would read, altho lately I’m trying to get a better grasp of the racial history and politics in the U.S. to that end I’m 2/3 thru Michelle Alexander’s “The New Jim Crow” and cannot recommend it highly enough.
Thanks, Mona. I am going to take a look at that.
It’s an epiphany moment on many levels. For some of the same, but also some different reason, both blacks and whites need to read this.
She insists, with ample documentation and logic, the War on Drugs is racist in execution and cannot be anything but, even if vast majority of people — including cops, prosecutors — honestly don’t believe they are racist. (And they may not be in terms of the vulgar variety that has become taboo.) Many blacks also support the WoD and she explains how they have sabotaged their own people, with the best of intentions.
The most enlightening point for me is what is wrong with the whole “colorblind” mantra. Tho deceptively appealing, in several applications it has been destroying the black community.
Some of her points about the legal system and S. Ct. decisions I already knew, but even as a lawyer myself, she pulled it altogether in a way I hadn’t before considered.
With charity and respect, she also says to the older generation of civil rights leaders: “Adapt or die.” Because, she shows, if they don’t the black community will keep dying, except for the small % of those in the professional class who are not seeing what all those left behind need.
This is a “must read” book.
Thank you for the commentary, Mona. I ordered the book yesterday. And I shared your comment with a coworker who wants to read the book as well.
Drivel.
Why is the discussion of the holocaust illegal in Europe,and probably coming soon here?Why would anyone,if their tales were true,not want lies to be exposed for what they claim they are,lies?
You are a lawyer,and can’t see the absurdity of making anyone’s viewpoints illegal?
I will never believe anything coming from serial liars,who have laid waste,and continue to to millions of humanity,all because someone else did it to them.
A joke.
Have you taken fucking leave of your senses? I’m Glenn Greenwald’s former law partner, and we took antisemtitic, racist white supremacist clients most other lawyers wouldn’t touch, in order to stand up for free speech.
When it comes to ideas, including political claims, I am a free speech absolutist. The notion that I support criminalizing any speech is laughable.
You clearly know little about me or my views. Making up shit to impute to me does not detract from your anti-Jewish bigotry.
No one on TI’s comments has called for more deletions of links than -Mona-.
1. This is a private venue and subject to the standards of those running the site.
2. Glenn Greenwald has been deleting actual antisemitic bullshit at least as far back as his time at Salon. He, too, is a free speech absolutist.
3. Henry Makow, David Duke and Ezra Pound were/are vicious antisemites. You don’t object to linking to them, however, because you also are a vicious antisemite.
4. While I almost always ignore you, on occasion I shall alert others to what you are.
Another commenter linked to an article and not some banner-bullshit.
After you called for the deletion I rolled my eyes and reprinted a quote from the article which echoed my conclusion that historical antisemitism has its roots in Jewish xenophobia. (The first time I posted my idea I was called an anti-Semite by you, told to “fuck off” by Louise, hence my pejorative to him which you love to reprint out of context, and good ol’Gator told me to “kiss [his] ass”.)
You then screamed we were linking to Duke, etc. which IS NOT TRUE. The link was for a single article. Rather than debunk the statement you just screamed for suppression.
Why do you feel the need to protect others from speech?
I’m an American mutt,with shhh…Jews in my family,and glad to have them,as when I have my half Jewish grandchild(hopefully soon)I’ll love him her as much as my half black grandchild,who is the apple of my eye.
You have no idea of what is my heart.
Nor have I claimed to “know what is in your heart.” But I do what you post. And it isn’t pretty.
Wow,if I’ve ever said reality was pretty,let me know.:)
Stop with the holier than thou childish crap.
I am entirely pleased to stand guilty of being “holier than thou” on the matter of base antisemitism. Those of you who indulge it merit the strongest repudiation. Those of you who commit it merit shunning, ignoring and /or banishment.
I don’t permit people in my home to rant about “niggers and kikes” or to declaim about the conspiracies of “international Jewish bankers and those greedy Jews.” I shun them everywhere else.
perhaps Hillary – if elected – is gong to offer up Monica L as Bibi’s intern … that’s about all that hasn’t already been done (comes highly recommended).
(aka) another endorsement for Trump.
(they just don’t get it)
Commenter nuf is a vile antisemite. Many of his comments reveal that disgusting fact, perhaps this one most sharply:
He also objects to deleting links to a Holocaust denial site run by a literal Nazi.
Decent people should not engage nuf.
“Decent people should not engage nuf.”
You are a terrorist sympathizer (and an idiot), but I still engage you.
You are a liar. And someone who makes terrorism far more likely.
Mona: “You are liar” (because of what you write about French laws)
“You may “personally boycott” anything you like in France. But if you exercise your right to free speech and attempt to convince others to do so you have violated the law.Something you originally claimed was not true.” Mona
READ YOUR LAST SENTENCE. Then read this:
truth&Freedom ? rrheard
Feb. 16 2016, 6:07 p.m.
“In France only the State is authorized to boycott products or services from other countries. (French Penal Code 225-2). Citizens buy or sell whatever they want, but convincing other citizens not to buy from Arabic or Israeli stores because of the nationality of the producers or service providers has always been considered illegal under French laws.”
“And someone who makes terrorism far more likely.”
Because I demand, like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, IRC that everybody abide by international laws. Damn! I did not know those well respected human rights organizations cause terrorism.
BTW I will stop calling you an idiot if you provide ONE example of a murder in the West Bank that the Israeli authorities have ignored. Since you stated there is a rule that Zionists murders go unpunished then it should be very easy for you to come up with that example. Normally one (1) example would not be sufficient to establish a “rule”, but one has to make an exception when dealing with brain damaged individuals.
That is false (Tellingly, you quote neither the statute nor direct language from the decision itself stating what you claim, or from any French legal source.) The French court decision determined that speech advocating the boycott of Israeli goods is hate speech. It is truly amazing how often and brazenly you are wrong and give me endless opportunities to show it.
Seriously, why do you do that? It’s very weird.
Anyway, as a leader of a Jewish French community wrote:
Nothing in there about only the state being allowed to boycott other states. Nada. What Greenwald wrote about the decision, and what I have written, has given you hissy fits, but we are simply correct. [shrug]
Boycotting a country has “not always been considered illegal under French law.” You are lying. BDS has just now been determined to constitute hate speech inf France.
No you don’t. If you did, you’d be loudly supporting BDS. Instead, you focus on potential crimes of deeply oppressed victims of a terror-state.
Please don’t. I don’t want you to. You undermine yourself even further with your promiscuous hurling of juvenile name-calling. Added to your chronic wrongness, it’s exactly what I want someone holding your views to do.
https://theintercept.com/2016/02/16/greatest-threat-to-free-speech-in-the-west-criminalizing-activism-against-israeli-occupation/
“The Greatest Threat To Free Speech In the West Criminalizing Activism Against Israeli Occupation”
His statement of Hitler finishing off the Jews is boilerplate Zionism btw.
I don’t want to step in doo doo,but might I point out they are serial liars?What they spew might be true,but their track record of BS imperils their narrative,the morons.Self haters.
As far as Louise,were Hansel and Gretel bad kids?
What? Um, that sounds insane. But I’ve not known you to post insane text in the past, so perhaps you can explain.
His point is that my screed to Louise Cypher was just that; boilerplate crap.
It is often referred to as putting out fire with gasoline.
I defy you to find anything I’ve posted remotely similar that was not done in total jest. If memory serves, and it does, I have once only made the statement that ‘finishing off the Jews would rid us of you [Louise Cypher]’.
You seem to believe that anything published on a neo-nazi website cannot be true. They are going to have some facts that lend credence to their over-all bullshit message. The essence of effective propaganda is that it contain a kernel of truth. I believe we should tease out the truth and toss the husk.
If a neo-nazi re-published Walt/Mearsheimer, would you disregard that work?
You’ve never answered the question, “Is Biden being antisemitic when he praises Jews for their effective control of the film-industry?” He made that speech. If he had lauded a group of blonde-haired/blue-eyed people for their 85% control of anything, all hell would break loose. Yet Israel gets smiles all-round from those in the club.
Wansee(sic) conference.
The conundrum Hitler was out to kill all the Jews in his possession belied by innumerable survivors, conveniently uncounted btw.
The numbers have called in question by Jewish scholars also,btw.I just read of one a couple of months ago.
Hitler was a supernationalist,created by Western revenge,and was actually in the right concerning all the lands stolen(or most)from Germany post ww2.The Jews in Germany were his virulent political enemies,what else would he do with them,but put them in camps during the war?(He put them in before also yes,but the bulk were war)We did the innocent peaceful and non threatening Japanese.
Hitler was a virulent murderer,of that there is no doubt,and Nazis aint my thing,just like Commies,all command and control,but history is much more complex than the BS from serial liars’
Save your old books.They are treasure.
Many? Which ones, Mona? Put them up, Mona.
You launch third-part attacks and now tell others to not engage me. Fuck you, Mona.
You are calling yourself “we” regarding staff on TI. Well, we’ve been down this path before. Is that not why we have -Mona- as opposed to the old Mona. The old Mona boasted over the fact she “emailed Murt [Murtaza Hussein]” to have a commenter banned. When confronted with this fact, Mona flatly denied having said such a thing. When the undeniable evidence was called up, she vanished.
Perhaps, if people valued the truth, they should take -Mona- with a grain, or two of salt.
Terrorist sympathizer Mona claims it is human nature to resort to killing innocent civilians, blowing up buses, massacring teenagers when facing a strong and powerful enemy. Therefore Hamas who has an official policy of committing war crimes should be armed with sophisticated weapons (I wonder why Iran and others only give them small arms but not sophisticated weapons). She even suggested that the ANC was somehow similar to Palestinian terrorists:
“Moreover, the ANC adopted it’s own atrocities, as you’ve been told before. Necklacing was appalling.”
Let’s see what Desmond Tutu, the one she refers to when describing Israel as an apartheid state said about the ANC in the TRC report:
http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/report/finalreport/Volume%202.pdf
“gross violations of human rights were perpetrated not by members under the direct command of the ANC or MK, but by civilians who saw themselves as ANC supporters and acted in line with what they perceived to be the ANC’s strategic direction.”
“During the 1960s and most of the 1970s, armed actions by MK resulted in few human rights violations. Targets were symbolic or economic and care was taken not to endanger civilians.”
“There were a few ANC acts of sabotage in this period that resulted in civilian casualties, such as the Goch Street shooting in 1977. For the most part, however,MK operations in this period did not lead to civilian casualties.”
“The military operations of MK in this period can be categorised as follows: Firstly,there were bomb attacks on urban targets. The targets selected were meant to be security force related, but the reality is that more civilians than security force personnel were killed in such explosions. The reasons included technical incompetence, faulty devices, poor reconnaissance and poor judgement or misunderstanding by operatives.”
“The second type of military operation was the ‘landmine campaign’ of 1985–86 in the northern and eastern Transvaal. The thinking behind this campaign was that these areas were defined by the South African security forces as being part of a ‘military zone’, and the white farmers were conscripted into a commando.The ANC halted this campaign when it became clear that most victims of such explosions were civilians, including black farm labourers and the wives and children of farmers”
Despite numerous public reports of the ANC condemning necklacing, even reprimanding Winnie Mandela for her words supporting necklacing and despite evidence provided by the UDF leadership of the measures they took against necklacing, she kept stating over and over that the Anti Apartheid leadership adopted necklacing.
Conclusion: Mona is an idiot and a terrorist sympathizer. And Mona this is your nature to attack schools, buses, restaurants, when you are a brain damaged individual incapable of finding better strategies against a powerful enemy. That is not the Cubans’ nature, and definitely not the South Africans’nature.
You will also find many Palestinians condemning terrorist actions against civilians. But, they can’t control all Palestinians, any more than the ANC could control Winnie Mandela or all members or associates of the ANC.
I politically supported the IRA, but I could do nothing about immoral acts like bombing department stores; British evil left many Irish feeling they had no legitimate means of punishing their much stronger oppressor. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS.
I’ve explained to you, at great length, many times, that Palestinians may be left with literally no legitimate outlet for the rage and anger they justly feel for a vicious oppressor who keeps murdering them and stealing their land, while enemy civilians party on hilltops watching it all.
Your position is repulsive. You expect super-human saintliness from murdered and deeply oppressed people whom you offer no legitimate outlet. You are disgusting and are part of the reason why they may feel left with no way to protest and punish their murderers except to attack civilians.
You share the blame. Not me.
“You will also find many Palestinians condemning terrorist actions against civilians. But, they can’t control all Palestinians, any more than the ANC could control Winnie Mandela or all members or associates of the ANC.”
Terrorist sympathizer: Ignorant, despicable and irrational.
You cannot control everybody. You will always have terrorists acts, but you can condemn them and punish those responsible. When you praise terrorists (like Hamas does) or you describe their actions as understandable then you can only fuel terrorism, which will come back to you sooner or later. The ANC and those with basic intellect unlike you understand this fact. Criminals would always find a reason to commit crimes. You even suggested that young Arabs in France could become terrorists because they are “deeply oppressed” in a country, that is not perfect, but offers them legal protection and social safety net that their American counterparts in the wealthiest country on Earth do not have.
“that Palestinians may be left with literally no legitimate outlet for the rage and anger they justly feel for a vicious oppressor who keeps murdering them and stealing their land, while enemy civilians party on hilltops watching it all.”
That is exactly why I call you an idiot. Palestinians have many political, diplomatic and economic options to fight Israel. As a dumb ass, you will never realize that they would not even convince the Iranians to give them sophisticated weapons because those Iranians themselves know they would probably use them against civilians and celebrate the civilians deaths the same manner the Israelis you mentioned did.
<blockquote. Palestinians have many political, diplomatic and economic options to fight Israel.
That is false. Those imagined “options” have and will do nothing to end the regular carnage Israel imposes on Gaza, the regular terrorism and theft it imposes on Arabs in the West Bank. It will do nothing, and has done nothing, to end Israel’s growing fascism and now-entrenched one-state apartheid.
Yes, and you can condemn terrorists Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, and Israel for electing them both prime minister, and honoring them to this day. You can condemn Israel’s far, far more deadly state-sponsored terrorism against Palestinians.
Or, you can focus your outrage on the atrocities committed by the oppressed victims. You can deny them proper weapons and not give a shit when peaceful means of pressuring their oppressors is criminalized. That’s what you do, which makes you a facilitator of terrorism and deeply complicit in the oppression of these victims.
“That is false. Those imagined “options” have and will do nothing to end the regular carnage Israel imposes on Gaza”
Terrorist sympathizer: ignorant, despicable, and irrational.
Do you need some tissue?
“That is false. Those imagined “options” have and will do nothing to end the regular carnage Israel imposes on Gaza”
Terrorist sympathizer: ignorant, despicable, and irrational.
Do you need some tissue?
Are you done? Did you wipe your tears?
“You can deny them proper weapons and not give a shit when peaceful means of pressuring their oppressors is criminalized.”
Oh no. I am willing to give weapons to the oppressed to defend themselves. The problem is that I have a principle: I will not give weapons to those who commit serious human rights violations (Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran..). Therefore, unless I have a brain damaged I cannot complain about the US giving weapons to Saudi Arabia and Israel and then support the idea of giving weapons to Hamas.
If you are American, you most certainly will and do. You just won’t allow them to defenseless Palestinians. Leaving them to be regularly slaughtered by a terror-state.
If you are not supporting BDS and demanding an end of military aid to Israel, you have no moral basis for opposing aid to Palestinians.
It’d perhaps be interesting if, during a public Q & A, Hillary were to be asked whether she agreed with Netanyahu’s plan to build walls around Israel in order to keep out all the “wild beasts”; and, if so, whether she might then approve of Trump’s similar logic. Or are all the Palestinians to be qualitatively differentiated in some way from all the Mexicans?
I think the world prays they put up a wall and leave us alone in peace.
Live and let live.
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/israeli-interrogators-threatened-to-rape-al-qiq-and-his-family-so-he-launched-hunger-strike/
(*Note: Please also read comments that confirm this)
http://samidoun.net/2016/02/87-days-of-hunger-strike-mohammed-al-qeeq-suffering-severe-respiratory-crisis-calls-to-see-family/
Perhaps after Hillary loses the nomination to Bernie, she and Bill should move to Israel if they long to be closer. Can’t get any closer than that.
This is brilliant self parody, Netanyahu is presenting a bill that will remove democratically elected legislators, ….if they criticize the standard of democracy in Israel.
I’m impressed.
Travel broadens the mind….and makes you ineligible to sit in the Knesset:
There’s just no end to the debate over how to extinguish democracy in Israel, here’s another pressing issue, what to do with lawmakers who visit the grieving families of “slain Palestinian terrorists”….should the members of the Knesset lose their seats?….or should their entire party be barred from the next election?
Front page block headlines at Wapo and NYlying times;Not.
If it were not for Israel’s unchallenged control of U.S. banking and finance, (of the 51 senior executives of major Wall Street Banks, trade exchanges and regulatory agencies, 37 are Jewish or have Jewish spouse) thus equates control of American foreign policy and Politicians, the U.S. would never support (publicly) the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
That even the mention of conflict is subject to debate, as in actuality it resembles more the characteristics genocide.
That argument sounds dangerously close to anti-Semitism, though. Glenn’s Jewish, and clearly he is not pro-Israel. So a policy-maker’s being Jewish doesn’t necessarily mean he or she supports Israel.
I read three comments in and the antisemitism rag is pulled out.
That rag is filthy at this stage
They must be under pressure from the Zionists.
Why else run 3 stories by Gessen,the ludicrous propagandist?
Everywhere,comments are drying up,usually by stopping guest comments.The creeps are getting nervous.
Of course GG is pro Israel.
Just not the current edition.
I’m totally pro Israel,a light unto other nations.A peaceful productive nation good for its people and neighbors.
This edition sucks the big wanger.
Who cares if Jewish people are banking executives? Israel isn ‘t “Jews.” American Jews are just that — Americans.
Mona: “Israel isn ‘t ‘Jews.’ American Jews are just that — Americans.”
Very true. But it is logical to question — but not assume — whether because of one’s Jewishness one supports the policies of the current Israeli government.
Notwithstanding the understandable effect historical racism has had on the Jewish people, Jewish people and the Israeli government should not be exempt from criticism.
So, again while we shouldn’t assume nefarious intentions, it isn’t irrational to care about the cultural associations of banking executives and how that *might* influence their actions.
Look, it’s dangerous enough that telling the truth about the Israel Lobby in the U.S. and other Western nations strongly parallels some of the worst tropes in antisemitic conspiracy theories. That’s the Zionists’ fault.
But, there is no justification, at all, for hurling baseless accusations about Jewish bankers, given longstanding antisemitic conspiracy theories about “international Jewish bankers.”
It’s wrong. Don’t do it.
https://archive.org/stream/HowHitlerDefiedTheInternationalBankers/HowHitlerDefiedTheBankers_djvu.txt
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=177 Federal Reserve: A Private Jewish Bank Strangling America
https://europeanmediacentre.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/list-of-banks-owned-by-the-jewish-rothschild-family/
@ Mona
You would like to suppress the truth (ie accusation using anti semite)…but you want to see the oppression of Palestinians stopped. You can’t have it both ways…as the second is the fruit of the first.
You are linking to batshit crazy and vile bullshit that cites antisemitic cranks such as Henry Makow, Ezra Pound and David Duke. Please go away.
Dangerous;The truth is dangerous.The truth is antisemitic.
It aint our fault,it’s theirs.
Banksters is the proper term,btw.And yes,they are Zionists,and Israeli centric.How else could they fund Israel,except through our stolen treasure.Your house was devalued for Zion.What a joke.
Ah,an acknowledgement the truth is dangerous.How can that be,the truth dangerous?Because the Zionists own the court of opinion,revealing their ownership of American society.
Unbelievable the disconnect from reality,as if banksters don’t deserve their just reward prison.
They played up the Popes comments on the wall,and Trump as evil,but do they point the finger at the POTUSes who have murdered millions since WW2,instead of words of logical sovereignty of our nation in the age of terror?Holy Sh*t,even the Pope wouldn’t level the charge.WTF?Screening people who hate US(for good reason btw)is criminal and radical?
Ludicrous speed.
yes American Jews,m who are loyal to Israel first and America second
That’s a disgusting claim for which there is no evidence. Nuf is an antisemite, and it appears Gator is right that there has been an increase in his ranks here.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html
The only thing that’s increased here is Mona’ censorship and stupid recent opinions regarding facts as being suspect.
Even Chomsky professes Zionism.
Yes,there are some Jews that are righteous,but none of them are banksters,insurance execs,MSM moguls wherever,its all Jewish Zionist controlled.
And Gessen again.I guess they’ve sold out.
It really is as bad here as Gator thinks. I’m literally sickened to see regulars here posting so much of this filth.
Gator has worn his Ziolite shield since salon,gimme a break.Another tribal hypocrite.
Who cares if Jewish people acknowledge they control 85% of Hollywood?
The banksters are just that. Name a top one who is not Jewish.
Always remember the Law of Large numbers; a Jew is not a bankster.
You really are a dim bulb, Mona.
“Israel isn ‘t “Jews.”” – Every Jew would like Israel to be 100% Jewish though, the “Jewish State”.
“American Jews are just that — Americans.” – I think it is safe to say that a majority of Jews always think of themselves as Jews and Israel supporters first, and their American citizenship, one of two citizenships they have, comes second.
There is no evidence that this is true.
The vast, vast majority of U.S. Jews do not hold dual citizenship with Israel.
and Hillary didn’t change any vote for Wall St. …
When someone sends money home to Israel they get a tax deduction. Who needs dual citizenship when the path is paved …
The numbers don’t lie. Billions of dollars shoveled to Israel every year while in America the government won’t spend, for budgetary reasons, ~$100/day for an entire city to not poison, for life, thousands of American children.
Ethnic religious supremacy and closed borders for Israel,but the Zionists in America all clamor for illegal immigration and religion out of politics.
Zionism(here) is Unconstitutional,funny dat.
Divide and conquer.
If Israel is such a good friend, why aren’t they fighting ISIS? And don’t give me that “it would weaken the alliance” crap.
Because they control American, Politicians, banks, regulatory agencies, trade agencies and foreign policy.
They support IsUS,directly by arms and hospital treatment,and indirectly by their worldwide media which protects the funders of these terrorists,Saudis and Turkey.
Its as transparent as glass to the unindoctrinated.
Why has the media been ironclad in their protection of Saudi Arabia since 9-11?Again Israel and Saudis sitting in the tree,k=i=s=s=i=n=g.Release the 28 pages,there’s obviously more there than just the Saudis.
Netanyahu, calling the disenfranchised non-Jews under Israel’s control “wild beasts” reminds me of the charge that some in the human-rights movement verge on uncivil, even bigoted language when debating Israeli apartheid.
I condemn it. And it’s completely unnecessary. There are multiple strong reasons to be on the side of racial equality, one person one vote, human dignity. ….Xenophobic, bigoted language only detracts from that. It detracts from the BDS movement, just as Netanyahu’s “wild beasts” comment only helps him with those that are bigots and who are receptive to that language.
Ultimately, I don’t think Netanyahu’s anti-Arab bigotry will be any more decisive than anti-Jewish bigotry. The bigots are a side show. What motivates people, what drives the BDS movement is the authentic human desire for dignity, human rights, self determination. As much as I oppose Netanyahu, not even he deserves to live in an apartheid state, where millions of people aren’t able to vote, aren’t able to live where they want, aren’t able to marry who they want. Every person deserves better than that.
Hillary: you are not going to be President. Do you not get it yet? You are not going to be President. You are a lying, monstrous POS. Would it help you to understand if we all held up signs saying “You are not going to be President”? Any clearer now?
The Zionists have different ideas.
Here’s a way Clinton can do more to help Netanyahu, the Israeli apartheid wall apparently isn’t able to stop women carrying scissors, so the answer is… more walls:
If only Apartheid South Africa had invested in more walls,….or perhaps safety scissors…history would have been different.
It is kind of fascinating how the scissor wielding terrorists can only be subdued by killing them with dozens of bullets, kind of the same problem that seems to crop up in confrontations between African Americans and US police.
There is no group or state which has done more
to promote anti-semitism
than have the governments of Israel and its allies.
They and others insist on separating jews, christians, and muslims
into superficial identities which are based upon the
corrupt religious falsehoods from their shared Abrahamic
arrogance and pretentiousness.
The fact of the enormous amount of shared human genetics
is dismissed and the minor manufactured cultural differences
are substituted and embraced as being THE major truth.
Typical human failures at integrating with our siblings.
The truth is that the governments of Iran, Israel, and every other
state involved in this nasty turmoil are proudly promoting
falsehoods
which maintain and expand the hostilities.
Pride is the devil they all worship.
Well said.
Iranian pride?Examples?
The article has stated the facts as a crime to humanity. Palestinians are the real biblical Jews. Today’s fake Jews need to stop masquerading as Semites (ARABS).
Shame to read, that some are threatening to leave because of their dislikes in others opinions.
You can say nasty things about the Israel lobby and they probably deserve it, but they do take care of their own, both in and out of office. Which is what accounts for their influence.
Many years ago, Hilary cut a deal with elements of the Democratic Establishment. She would stand by her man, Bill, throughout the impeachment hearings and other humiliations and in return she would be the first woman president. The message is clear, stand for Israel and we will support you both in and out of office. American Congressmen (and women) often make the trip to Israel for “consultations.”
The Israel lobby, with its hardcore neocon slant, has its fingers in both parties. And they are not the only ones.
Of course, Jews from everywhere except Palestine have more right to be in Palestine than the native Palestinians.
Of course, it’s “not terrorism” when European Jews conduct a decade-long campaign of savage terrorism targeting the defenseless civilian population of Palestine, blowing up bombs in crowded buses, markets and cafes (it’s “Jewish self-determination”, just ask any zionist).
Of course, it’s “not ethnic cleansing” and “not racism” when European Jews force one million defenseless native Palestinian fathers, mothers and children from their homes at gunpoint and into refugee camps, executing those who couldn’t or wouldn’t flee, raping women, looting the life possessions of the refugees and systematically destroying 400 Palestinian towns and villages, all for the sole reason that the refugees were Christians and Muslims and inconvenient to establishing a Jewish demographic majority in the new Jewish state.
Of course those five million registered refugees from Israeli racist terror and ethnic cleansing have no human rights and should not be supported.
And, of course, racism, terrorism, colonialism, mass murder and apartheid are moral and right as long as they serve to defend the only apartheid state in the world.
Of course.
GOODBYE CRUEL COMMENT SECTION…
I hate to be all dramatic and self-important, but after ten years of commenting in GG’s forum I feel compelled to mark the end of my participation here with some sort of announcement. I’ll keep it short, though.
This place has become a reeking cesspool of Jew-hatred and other base emotions. From the open Jew-baiting that no one bothers to challenge or dispute, to the stomach-turning rationalizations for the outright murder of Jews, the line between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism has been obliterated. My small, anti-Zionist, pro-Jewish voice has no place here.
Over the years many of GG’s commenters have broadened and enriched my perspective on the world. Most of those people are long gone, but to the few who remain, and to GG himself, I offer my sincere thanks.
It didn’t occur to me that you posted as ‘Gator90′ until now.
Yours is an important voice here and your perspective is needed.
I myself have contemplated leaving, but lowering my expectations helps me.
So perhaps you can reconsider — post with no expectations, just for the sake of adding your wisdom here.
You never know how many non commenters are lurking here who benefit from your perspective.
Agreed.
Gator, I would ask you please not to go, but I respect your right to do so if you feel you must.
There has, it is true, been an uptake in anti-semitic commenting here, but it has not all gone unchallenged. Certainly not by me. At TI, we see less of gross Islamophobia than at some other sites, and when elsewhere I can’t address all of that, either.
And Gator, I don’t see anyone advocating “the outright murder of Jews.” What they’re saying — or certainly I am — is that the Arabs the State of Israel deeply oppress, murders, and whose citizens celebrate these events, these Arabs are possibly going to be driven to retaliate against citizens of the nation-state doing all this. Especially if the increasingly successful, non-violent means of protest is shut down.
In any event, I second Sufi’s statement that yours is an important voice, and I would deeply regret losing it.
shorter Mona:
I’ve asked for links to be deleted to pieces critical of Jewish film-makers but to no avail. I’ll continue trying to have material suppressed.
You are a putrid antisemite.
Many if not most Palestinians are Semites…
Your brush wipes broadly and is used as an attack word. Many Jews have been doing the same extortion since WWII and the sad unfortunate underhanded lying force that created Israel in the first place.
Reasonable people are all aware that anti-semitism is the modern term for Jew-hatred. Literal meaning of the term is irrelevant.
You do not seem bothered by actual antisemitism. If that is the case, I do not care to have your support.
No…I support Truth and the Freedom of it. I support “reasonable” people who care about justice for the common good, not for a selected few. When engaging in truth one has to want to face it…which you do not seem to want…so be it that’s your freedom. But do expect to hang on to the guilt of aiding and abetting the demise of the Palestinians because the ‘anti semitism’ card got in your way of discernment. A double mindset cancels out justice, freedom, truth, compassion, and all things good.
Shalom…
As opposed to the to the stomach-turning rationalizations for the outright murder of Palestinians, at a rate of 10 to 100 times. Check.
Israel was created by Jews. Israel butchers Palestinians. Jews butcher Palestinians. If I have to remind you not all Jews are butchering Palestinians you really never should have graduated.
“My small, anti-Zionist, pro-Jewish voice has no place here.”
I am a Jew, and I agree with the anti-Zionist view; see normanfinkelstein.com. I seldom comment on this site, but I read regularly. A voice such as yours may have more sympathy and appreciation than the comments suggest.
It is especially important to continue to make the distinction quoted above because anti-semitism seems to be on the rise. This is more visible in Europe, but can be expected to increase here as well.
Those Jews who flaunt their power and wealth excessively, who act as agents of Zionism, condoning the horrible oppression of Palestinians, and obviously demand and get obsequious deference from American politicians and others in authority, e.g., university presidents, to the detriment of American interests and contrary to American traditions, add fuel to the fires of anti-semitism. This is a grave danger to Jews throughout the world. We who oppose the excesses of Zionism do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush as will eventually tar the Zionists and their supporters.
Many people, quite unjustly, ask why more Muslims don’t denounce terrorism if they are really against it. For comparable reasons, it is necessary for us to denounce the evils of Zionism to our fellow Jews and the rest of the world. This is dictated not only by self-interest but also by the moral imperative of fidelity to justice.
While I’m sympathetic to Litigator90, if I’m going to be perfectly honest, I’m also sympathetic to the rage with which Nuf Said writes. I don’t know, but it’s very possible that Nuf Said is a Palestinian, who has personally, or has family members who’ve personally been affected by Israel’s occupation. So even when I’m sympathetic to Litigator90, I’m reminded by what Max Blumenthal says, and I’m paraphrasing, that “While your sensitivities are assaulted, Palestinians are physically assaulted and killed and murdered and dispossessed.” So even when I understand Mona’s outrage, I wanted to mention that where Nuf Said is coming from is probably a place none of us have ever been. I just wanted to say that.
But I also wanted to address your point about Jews flauting their power and wealth. I’m not sure there’s any reason for Jews to clamp anything down. Just because Adelson is a creep, doesn’t mean that I have to view every Jew as a creep. That is your traditional anti-semitism. Why do Jews have to live in a way where they’re not able to flaunt their wealth or their success? This is 2016 for God’s sake.
Of course not! But that’s on the rest of society, is it not? It certainly is not the responsibility of my Jewish neighbor to make the world less anti-semetic. He should be able to watch the game and not worry about anything. I don’t think it’s his responsibility to distance himself from Israel publicly. He should be able to have a good time, playing with his kids.
And Litigator90. Don’t leave! No good comes out of being sensitive, about being Jewish, or Muslim or Black or whatever. If we’re too sensitive, we’re going to find an anti-semite, or an Islamophobe, or a racist under every nook and corner. And what fun is that?
AiC, I really don’t think so. Like you, I interpret antisemitic commentary differently when coming from Palestinians, who don’t come from the Western antisemitic tradition that led to the holocaust. Their proximate reason for antisemitism is an actual, vile set of policies carried out by Zionist Jews.
Nuf has been participating in Glenn’s comments for many years (I think back to Salon) and I recall no suggestion he’s not a Westerner, likely American. That is, he’s likely fully aware of the Western strains of deeply depraved antisemitism and its consequences.
Another hasbara distinction without a difference from Mona.
Jewish intolerance for outsiders is what has led to historical antisemitism.
Jewish treatment of Palestinians today only reinforces long-standing stereotypes.
Jews were hanging British soldiers in Tel Aviv less than one year after British troops liberated death camps. Do not tell me I have less right to bash Jews for their occupation of Palestine than the Palestinians do.
How many Arabs are in the IDF?
It is more correct to say that ‘Jews are butchering Palestinians’ when the IDF unloads than it is to say ‘Israel butchers Palestinians’. Are all Jews butchering Palestinians? No.
Is that clear nuf Mona?
The occupation is the fuel. Jews bring the match. (again, not all Jews bring matches but the match-carriers are Jewish)
(I’ve been here since the Blogger days.)
Yeah, on’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, Gator90. At least for me, spare us of your pathetic “cesspool of jew hatred” tropes. You were always a Florida zionist jew ans some of us who have been around for some time, remember your hasbara posts when GG was at Salon. I will never forget when you posted that it made you cry when your young son ( or daughter) was reciting the israeli national anthem or something of that sort at their school in Florida. You’re just another zionist jew albeit the kind masquerading as the exact opposite. I, for one, am more than happy to never have to read your nonsense again.
:)
Is it even possible to “‘strengthen the U.S.-Israel alliance’ beyond what it already entails”? I suspect yes, probably in the form of (i) laws that infringe Americans’ right to criticize Israeli policies; and (ii) even greater manipulation of the infotainment complex.
I and the rest of the world are tired of hearing about this never-ending Israel / Palestine issue. I wish one would just destroy the other and be done with it. I don’t care who destroys who or if they both are wiped from the face of the earth. Just be done with it!
You’re a non-thinking fool.
Don’t believe me? Would you listen to 950+ disillusioned former Israeli Jewish IDF cops / ex-soldiers?
Radio Interview from @CBCSunday:
CBC Sunday interviews Dana Golan. She’s a former veteran of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). In her new book, she interviews 950+ disillusioned Israeli ex-soldiers who dare to speak openly re Israel apartheid and Israeli Jews illegally occupying Palestinian land.
950+ former Israeli IDF soldiers reveal truths about Israel’s institutionalized practices of intimidation and brutality towards Palestinians in the occupied territories, including night raids and arbitrary arrests unrelated to security, the use of human shields, etc.
25 min. audio interview
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayedition/our-harsh-logic-with-dana-golan-1.2251897
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The Israel lobby, AIPAC and the right wing government of Israel is corrupting American democracy. The latest outrage is using their influence to try to declare support and advocacy for the BDS movement as “hate speech.” Hillary Clinton supports this suppression of our 1st Amendment right, and that is just another reason to not vote for her.
Greenwald is just another brainless coward in the left’s war on Israel.
It is a “war” Israel more than deserves & deserves to lose. As for Greenwald’s brainlessness & cowardice: there is nothing in his article that you can refute with sensible arguments & facts. So who is the chicken here?
The web is mightier than the sword!
And it is not the left,or right or middle against Israel,just reality,it has no ideology.
Well maybe I’ll have to think twice about not voting for Hillary. Because I certainly support Israel. Thanks for bringing her pro-israel stance to my attention.
A proud mole traitor.
Enjoyed your article…I have a question, why isn’t someone requesting Hillary Clinton’s medical record…Something is being hidden here, and from what I can gather as being a retired physician, she might very well have some serious medical issues that could get her in trouble down the pike. I don’t understand why no one is looking into this…Thanks, Bill.
Mr. Greenwald
Thus the obsession with Israel by the radical left continues unabated despite the far more misery and suffering imposed on Muslims in Syria by the Assad regime supported by Russian bombing and the murderous Islamic terrorist organization, ISIS. No amount of Russian bombing of hospitals or the murder of innocent civilians in Syria draws a response from the Intercept staff except (hard hitting stories?) to report on how Russia controls the Internet and how the fascist state maintains book censorship.
“……..sophisticated [US] weapons fed to Israel as it bombs its defenseless neighbors……” my addition
Yea, the defenseless Palestinian and Arab militias that attacked Israel after the UN proposed two states for two peoples in 1947; the defenseless Palestinians after the Arab armies attacked Israel after declaring independence in 1948; the defenseless Palestinians after Nobel Peace Prize winner Arafat resorted to terrorist attacks against Israel beginning in the 1960s; the defenseless Palestinians after the Arabs attacked Israel in 1967; the defenseless Palestinians after the Arab armies attacked Israel in 1973 – all of the above before a single settlement was constructed in the West Bank or East Jerusalem.
Clearly the same defenseless Palestinians led by the great leader of the defenseless Palestinians, Arafat, ordered the start of the second Intifada in 2001 after an offer of peace from the Israeli government; and the defenseless Palestinians freely elected the terrorist organization, Hamas, to power in 2005 after Israel pulled out of Gaza. This was followed by Hamas continuing to launch barrages of Qassam rockets into civilian areas of Israel which began during the second Intifada.
The Palestinians were so defenseless that Hamas focused their manpower and finances into building the expensive underground tunnels (out of cement) to attack Israel instead of providing for Gazans which is what most freely elected governments do for the people that elected them to power. Hamas did absolutely nothing to help the Palestinian people when the expected wars with Israel came (in which Hamas fired hundreds of Qassam rockets into Israel) – and hundreds of Palestinian people were successfully sacrificed for purposes of propaganda (a role that the Intercept takes seriously as a support vehicle).
The Palestinians are so defenseless that a wave of knife attacks targeting Israeli Jews has occurred since the fall of 2015:
“……An increase of violence occurred in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict starting early September 2015, known as the “Wave of Terror”[9][18][19] or “Intifada of the Individuals”[20][21][22][23] by Israelis or the “Knife Intifada” by international media, related in part to tensions between Palestinians and Israelis regarding the status of the Temple Mount……..Twenty-eight people have been killed in attacks including stabbings, car rammings and shootings between 13 September 2015 and 5 January 2016–25 Israelis, one Eritrean, one US citizen and one Palestinian…..”
So the defenseless Palestinians continue to aggressively participate in terrorist attacks against Israel.
Ok, not entirely defenseless, but close to it. That Palestinians get knives, tunnels, cars, and crude inaccurate missiles. The Israelis get the latest high tech weapons from the American taxpayers. Its call desperation on the part of the Palestinians as they would much prefer to use the Israeli arsenal. Your point is absurd.
“Tie the bonds tighter?” “Take our relationship to the next level?” “Tunnel detection?”
Just what is Hillary suggesting here?
Hey Now!
After listening to her Brookings Institution speech it seemed that she wanted to find and use any excuse to bomb Iran for violating their no nuke agreement. I suppose this works with her promise for closer ties in particular with Bibi. I don’t see how see can take the relationship with Israel to a “new level”, and not break Obama’s agreement, and lob a few bombs at the Iranians. And not rhetorical bombs, the real ones.
i am sickened by the thought of a Clinton regime. Having tea with Netanyahu during her first month of presidency? It makes me ill. There is no compassion for the Palestinians. If they were obliterated, I think there are some Israelis that would be glad, including Netanyahu. We supply the weaponry so that Israel can “mow the lawn”. I wish Bernie would talk more about foreign policy. Not doing could hurt his campaign. Hillary is a warmonger and it scares me. We can all do something. Write our senator; connect with our local Amnesty International chapter; vote for a person who wants positive change, not power. All this will help. We must belief.
I mistakenly sent this comment. There is a slightly older one I would like people to read. Thanks!
Buy Palestinian exports through Canaan Fair Trade http://www.canaanfairtrade.com/
I enjoy almost every word that Glenn Greenwald writes. Which is why I have to ask why I am confused when he chooses to use the term “progressive” to describe liberals instead of “liberals”, and “liberal establishment”. If it were established, it would not be progressive. Hillary has managed to corrupt the idea of progressive by identifying as one in the debates, but progressive literally means progress and the liberal democrats do not represent progress any more than their conservative republican corporate partners.
I am so saddened by the potential Clinton regime. I want Sanders to talk more about foreign affairs b/c I believe not doing so is jeopardizing his campaign.
Clinton’s Israeli propaganda is beyond disturbing. Having tea with Netanyahu her first month in the oval office makes me sick. I am Arab-American which does not cause discrimination because I am light skinned. I have written on Arab issues in the past focusing on Lebanon. Israel wants to “mow the lawn” or annihilate Palestinians by pushing further and further into their ounce of land with tanks, etc. I believe that some Israelis would like to see the Palestinians obliterated. Not all Israelis, but some. Netanyahu? If Hilary makes it into office, god only knows what will happen. I can only hope that humanity towards the Palestinians will come to fruition. Bombing hospitals and schools is pure evil. The IDF is pure evil. But there is always hope and we can do our part to help the oppressed even in small ways. Write to your senator; contact your local chapter of Amnesty International; vote for a candidate that cares about people not power. These are all things we can do right where we are. The little things become big things and changes are made. I believe this.
Please read this comment and not the other one I wrote…
Israel doesn’t bomb their neighbors unless Israe has been bombed first! In 2014, Hamas sent thousands of rockets at Israeli cities for the sole purpose of killing civilians. Luckily the US-Israeli Iron Dome shot down most of those rockets, allowing the Israeli death toll to be low. After a week of demanding Hamas to stop firing rockets, Israel finally acted. Like in any war, there were civilian casualties. But Israel does the best to avoid them. Israel leaves warnings to residents to leave their buildings before they attack. But Hamas uses humans as shields! There is video proof and confession that Hamas operated in hospitals and schools. That is illegal.
“thousands of rockets” = thousands of de facto tin-can fireworks,
not like precision bombs & cluster bombs & missiles & artillery shells & bullets
That makes it okay then.
Israel commits war crimes. Among other things, it has used Palestinian civilians, including children, as human shields over 1200 times.
Hamas has impotent rockets it essentially assembles in garages from smuggled parts; it cannot target with any precision. Israel blockades Gaza and no decent weaponry an get through with which to battle the oppressor, Israel. Israel, which has a state-of-the art and deadly military, paid for with my U.S. tax dollars.
In 2014, Israel was so blase about Hamas’ rockets, the Times of Israel told the people of Tel Aviv to continue to be social, and not to forget to tip the sushi boy. In Gaza, thousands were dying, and tens of thousands of homes and neighborhoods were turned to rubble. Israelis in Sderot dragged couches to hilltops for beer and wine parties to watch and celebrate as the bombs rained down on the helpless Gazans.
I helped pay for Israel to slaughter over 500 Gazan children in the summer of 2014. I help pay for Israel to oppress Gaza, to murder them, to keep them penned up in an open air prison. I help pay for Israel to steal more Arab land in the West Bank, and to protect Jewish terrorists who assault and even kill Arabs.
As an American whose country heavily supports Israel, I am supporting evil.
“I helped pay for Israel to slaughter over 500 Gazan children in the summer of 2014. I help pay for Israel to oppress Gaza, to murder them, to keep them penned up in an open air prison. I help pay for Israel to steal more Arab land in the West Bank, and to protect Jewish terrorists who assault and even kill Arabs.
As an American whose country heavily supports Israel, I am supporting evil.”
Do not pay anymore. Renounce your citizenship and leave!
No. I’m staying and fighting — people like you. You carry on as if the only problem in the world is that one news site publishes a lot of criticism of Hillary Clinton.
The families of dead kids in Gaza would like to have such pressing problems.
“No. I’m staying and fighting — people like you.”
Mona: I am financing the government that is killing kids in Gaza.
Me: Then leave and stop financing that government
Mona: No. I am staying and keep financing the government that is killing kids in Gaza so I can fight you.
Brain damaged idiot!
You must be either a deranged heretic,a duped idiot or a Zionist.
Yes.
Israel is predominately a Jewish nation. It is certainly run as if Jews are more important than Arabs.
Stop reminding everyone that not all Jews support Israel. We get it.
I despise what Israel has been doing for decades and it has all been done in the name of The Jewish state. Jews are stealing Arab land every day of the year. That message resonates.
As you noted some time ago all Jews, rightly or wrongly, risk being tarred with one brush because of the actions of Israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WykA2mUDWB0
In this video, Fayha Shalash makes an urgent appeal on behalf of her husband Mohammad al-Qeeq, who is gravely ill and could die at any time after 85 days on hunger strike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3cm2bSTqGk Palestinian hunger striker on verge of death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUgEWkVJxgY Mohammad al-Qeeq – projection on BBC Building
Why won’t they hear? FREE Mohammad al-Qeeq FREE PALESTINE NOW
Hillary Clinton can’t seem to break her conditioning. She keeps desperately trying to please the lobbyists and financiers. Meanwhile they’re telling her, “No, no, we know you’re loyal. We need you to say that you’re going to work for the common people. Don’t worry, we won’t be offended or hold it against you. And we’ll keep donating no matter what”.
She broke one of her circuits with that concussion. When they removed it (and implanted it in Rubio — having only one billionaire backing him, he must settle for second hand propaganda software), they put the “donor ” circuit up front and the “people” one in back. Now it’s too late to go and switch them as people will notice. It is truly hilarious, though, when she keeps telling the billionaires behind closed doors that, if elected, she’ll give them free healthcare. The looks on their faces!
There is also a candidate that explicitly opposes Israel’s policies: Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party.
http://www.jill2016.com/
Wow, haven’t Hillary got enough support from the rich already? What can the Jewish leaders offer that Wall Street can’t?
“Strengthen the ties that bind”? What does that mean?
Pulling harder on the noose around Uncle Sam’s neck? Bibi is already yanking as hard as he can.
Has any other foreign nation ever garnered such slavish devotion by American politicians? At any time in our history?
This cannot end well for either the US or Israel.
Love the “with little notice” in the headline. Good one, Glenn. Old Hill has done everything but announce that she wants to play Monica to Bibi’s Billy C. somewhere in his office, just as soon as she’s pres, if it hasn’t already happened. Why, they’re practically going steady. Doesn’t the angora the Hill has wrapped around that ring Bibi gave her mean that? I may be wrong about the ring…
Hmmmmm…”met in secret (no press allowed) with roughly 100 leaders of South Florida’s Jewish community” sounds suspicious…wonder if he tried to boink one of them…not quite the Oval Office but hey, you take what you can get…kind of like the 6 million (or was it billion) he got entrusted with for Haiti and not one single thing to show for it…maybe we should ask hillary if she knows where the money went to….
Funny! But from what I’ve seen, Jeb ain’t much of a boinker!
@MONA
The internet performance artist formerly known as Gator90 was surprised to see in the previous thread your remark that Hamas and other Palestinians “cannot be blamed” for resorting to terrorism. Assuming the commonly understood meaning of terrorism as intentional attacks on civilians, is that really your view now?
I don’t recall my actual wording, but my view is that when peaceful means are denied an oppressed people, and they have no significant military weapons to attack an oppressor who is armed with state-of-art precision weapons used to slaughter them, it is inevitable that they will resort to killing when and as they can. As I read history and human nature, that is the way of it.
Nice dodging!
Again, commonly understood meaning of terrorism as INTENTIONAL ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS.
Is that really your view that Hamas cannot be blamed for resorting to terrorism?
What I wrote was this:
In this situation, they merit at least the same understanding I extend to liberal U.S. Jews who, with the Holocaust, turned to immoral warrior and terrorist Zionism. In both cases, the crimes cannot ultimately be justified, but they are understandable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHhECvN2kQI Visual: Settlers Attack Palestinian Shepherds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2qIWNIdtxk MEET THE ISRAELI SETTLERS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5NP7zoVcRY One Israeli Soldiers Beating and Smashing the Teeth of Palestinian Worker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyG8wGWzU6w Israeli Forces Beat Palestinian Teen Brutally
https://electronicintifada.net/content/video-israeli-bulldozers-raze-jordan-valley-homes/15616 Video: Israeli Bulldozers Raze Jordan Valley Homes
Seeing as how Israel has killed @ 100 Palestinian noncombatants for every Israeli noncombatant killed by Palestinians, I have to ask why you are blaming Hamas while letting Israel off the hook?
Your actual wording was: “If Hamas, or any other Palestinian activists, return with a vengeance to terrorism, they cannot be blamed.”
So if a Palestinian blows up a school bus full of Jewish kids in Tel Aviv, he or she “cannot be blamed”?
A more direct answer than the last one would be appreciated.
They share blame. Young males will behave immorally when their people are victims of lengthy oppression and all peaceful means are foreclosed to them. They cannot procure the precision, advanced weapons Israel has with which to reach the military of Israel; Israel maintains a blockade preventing that. And now, the peaceful route people have long been demanding of them, is being shut down as well.
What do you think human nature dictates will follow?
This is a test to see if I can reply to Mona as “Gator90.”
The argument of a terrorist sympathizer.
How many civilian buses did Castro, or Che destroyed facing the mighty US backed military of Batista?
How many civilian buses the Viet Cong destroyed when facing one of the most powerful armies in the world?
How many civilian buses the ANC destroyed when facing the most advanced military in Africa?
All of these militants were mostly composed of young men (Castro was only 32!). All of them faced well organized, well armed, well equipped, well and trained armed forces.
NOT A SINGLE OF THESE REBEL GROUPS OR MILITANT ORGANIZATIONS ADOPTED INTENTIONAL ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS AS A POLICY.
Terrorist sympathizers: ignorant, despicable and irrational.
The VC murdered tens of thousands of civilians and the AN C youth fought a near civil war with Inkatha– ever hear of necklacing? And the ANC tortured prisoners in Namibia. Using capital letters doesn’t make your arguments accurate. It really doesn’t.
Israel, of course, became a Jewish state as a result of massacres designed to drive Palestinians out.
All these rebel groups did violence against civilians whom they thought as traitors. The Continental Army did violence to Tory traitors.Same with Sherman and the South.
Using these legitimate groups of resistance to foreign intervention and domestic racists is a slur on the absolute right and legitimacy of the Palestinians,the modern victims of Hitlers murder spree,to resist,along with chump former guards who are paying for the German Govt’s crimes.What a hoot.
As a former German soldier said to me;”You do what they say or you one dead mouse.”
Mona,
I’m glad you amended “they cannot be blamed” to “they share blame.” Big difference, obviously. I was concerned your understandable zeal for the Palestinian cause had shattered your moral compass.
I have no problem with saying Israel bears a certain responsibility for Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians. It clearly does. But the attackers are still murderous pieces of shit.
I find your comment weird on another level as well. You state the “peaceful route” is being shut down, thus leaving young Palestinians no choice but to behave immorally. Yet you have long maintained here that the BDS movement is, in fact, making progress toward the goal of ending Zionist apartheid. Do you no longer hold the latter view?
Absolutely — until now. Read Glenn’s column again, listing all the attacks on those promoting BDS, especially in France. If It becomes pervasive in Western countries that BDS cannot be effected — that it is stopped in its successful tracks — a tragedy will result.
You and I have discussed the Transfer Agreement German Zionists and Zionists in Palestine entered into with Hitler. To the horror of American Jews who were boycotting German goods, Zionists in Germany and Palestine endorsed the Nazi nationalist ideology — saying they wanted to do a Jewish version — and said in exchange for sending German Jews to Palestine they would trade with Germany. And they did.
What is the morally right position in that situation? What is the morally right position when Zionists assassinated a UN mediator in 1947?
Zionists in Palestine at least had conventional weapons with which to fight. Gazans do not — they watch their children die by the hundreds, and many thousands are maimed for life. All because of Israeli weaponry the West lards them with.
What are they to do with their impotent (by the design of their murderer) rage? Random killings to impose a price is going to seem the only avenue for those with no other means of making their killer and oppressor pay a price.
This is a morally fraught situation, of which there have been many in history.
@ Mona
Think about what they are arguing. Palestinians should lay down and die and/or submit to the one-sided conditions of the state of Israel. Anybody that thinks any people, anywhere in the world would do that, is delusional and morally bankrupt.
It depends upon the implicit and false premise that Israel is doing nothing wrong in how they subjugate the Palestinians. That is the only way they can argue that Palestinians returning violence upon their oppressors is somehow unjustified or “terrorism”. It’s such a transparently and pathetically propagandistic argument I’m shocked anyone buys it.
Either the US learned this argumentative slight of hand from the Israelis or the Israelis taught it to the US leaders (i.e. any resistance to our bombing the fuck out of you is terrorism vs. when we bomb and terrorize the fuck out of you it is justified in “self-defense” against your returning the violence we have visited upon you.)
If there is any more morally bankrupt argument or worldview than that I’ve never heard of it.
Er, who is “they,” RR?
I certainly don’t think Israel is doing “nothing wrong”; nor do I think Palestinians must submit to oppression.
I do think Palestinians, like all the world’s peoples throughout history and in the present day, have a moral obligation to refrain from murdering civilians. Do you disagree?
@ Litigator90
Refrain from murdering civilians? Absolutely, and Israel can start first given they are killing Palestinian civilians at a rate anywhere from 10 to 100 to 1 the amount of Israeli civilians that have been killed.
Unless of course you believe the intrinsic value of an Israeli civilian is more valuable than that of a Palestinian civilian and/or alternatively you believe no Palestinian is a “civilian” which is apparently Israeli policy if you take some of their leaders at their word and based on some of their written policies.
That’s not what Gator is arguing, at all. He condemns Israeli killings of Palestinian civilians. The issue is that he’s supporting an absolute that he says applies equally to Palestinians.
In most instances I’d agree with him unreservedly. What’s causing me anguish in this case is that Palestinians see Israelis sitting on couches on the hills of Sderot drinking wine and beer, celebrating as bombs drop on Arab babies. These same Palestinians are blockaded by those killing their babies from acquiring weaponry that can reach Israeli military targets.
And now, Israel is succeeding in shutting down the non-violent, increasingly successful BDS movement.
Where does that leave the Palestinians morally? When they have no means at all of resisting their oppressor, because that oppressor has blocked them all? And, where does it leave us in terms of sitting in moral judgment of them if they blow up a bus with Israeli kids on it? Babies themselves.
This is one of the most morally vexing issues I’ve encountered in a very long while.
Mona, you know very well that there’s no such entity as Palestinians because there’s no ‘P’ sound in Arabic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/israel-palestine-arabic-p_us_56bd97bbe4b0b40245c61088
Yes, I learned that on Twitter! Also, there is no “J” sound in Hebrew. So they can’t claim Jerusalem.
@ Mona
I think I get what he’s arguing. But I think trying to forge a moral “equivalence” when there is such disproportionate power relationship, differences in the ability to inflict violence and casualties and differences in scale of atrocities against “civilians” by one group vs. the other group it turns such arguments into red herrings.
It is easy enough in a moral vacuum to say “it is always wrong to kill non-combatants” (i.e. civilians). And I would agree with that sentiment morally and strategically.
But that most definitely is not the position that the state of Israel has ever taken. By its actions and policies it has taken the immoral position that for any Israeli “civilian” killed (and there are very few true “civilians” in Israel given mandatory conscription and that fact all except the religious fundamentalists who are permitted to avoid combat training and service, are part of readily mobilized military forces at all times) Palestinians will be subjected to overwhelming force and collective punishment.
But this “conflict” isn’t being waged in a moral vacuum it is being waged in the real world where one side has all the power, kills 10X the civilians the other side does, and is the oppressor/aggressor 9 times out of 10 historically.
That’s why I said, if we’re going to draw moral absolutist lines in the sand, let’s start with Israel not cowardly engaging in collective punishment on a regular basis.
If Israel was to stop retaliating in the manner they do, immorally, public opinion would switch to Israel in a heartbeat if Palestinians chose violence in the face of Israel’s stoicism in the face of isolated terrorist attacks.
Everyone in the world would be an ally of Israel if it (given its effective control of the Palestinian people) responded with sorrow, patience and morality, and treated each instance of Palestinian violence proportionally and with the legal resolve to bring Palestinian “terrorists” who kill civilians to legal justice.
If Israel can send its Mossad men/women all over the globe to track down Nazi war criminals over decades and bring them to justice in places they don’t control shit, then they most certainly could do the moral thing and approach the isolated instances of Palestinian “terrorism” in the exact same way.
Hell I’d side with Israel if they changed their ways. That’s always been my point. I have no problem with Israel’s continued existence, but not doing what it is doing now to other human beings. But this moral fantasy that Israel can do anything short of engage in open genocide against Palestinians and re-label it and excuse it as “self-defense” is nonsense and morally untenable.
You simply will never convince me that there is any equivalency between what Israel does and what isolated Palestinians do given the real world power differentials between the two.
And quite frankly, this is why I have always said, tactically and strategically it is the smartest thing in the world, ala Gandhi, for the Palestinians to never engage in terrorism against Israel. They should peacefully and openly challenge the authority and legitimacy and military might of Israel even if it costs them their unarmed lives.
In exactly the same way Martin Luther King Jr. convinced African Americans to stand in the face of fire hoses, billy clubs, attack dogs and tear gas knowing full well that once people saw their peaceful efforts and fight for dignity, self-determination and equal rights before the law be met with brutality, beatings and killings–that’s when you’ve won the battle if not the war.
My only beef with Palestinians engaging in violence is that it is ultimately counterproductive, not that it isn’t morally justified for them to try and kill their oppressors.
They’ve squeezed the Palestinians to the point that children don’t care to live,and will take out their oppressors with their lives.
And humanity(MSM-throughout the Western world) says nothing.
Pure Evil.
Trump says he’ll be neutral.Hip hip hooray!
The Zionist are out to chop him to pieces.
sheesh.Add up the body counts.
The Zionists are just alarmed that they are no longer immune from Palestinian retribution,as even scissors from 14 year old children can kill you.Their zone of invincibility has been ruptured again.
Talk about a people in a bubble of BS.
Thank-you for such a clear succinct explanation. You are right it is truly a morally bankrupt argument and one most of the world understands. What is so sad is that both the US and Israel use this argument in all their continuing imperialistic “world adventures”.
You will be the first one to show your love for the f word when I call you an idiot.
Neither Gator nor I advocate the idea that Palestinians should lay down and die. I advocate and I believe Gator is advocating the full respect of international laws. The same laws you use to attack Israel whenever they violate them also apply to the Palestinians, the Americans when they invaded Iraq and the Russians who invaded Crimea.
As opposed to what Mona, the other idiot, is trying to suggest Palestinians terrorists organizations have intentionally targeted civilians, blowing restaurants, blowing up buses in Israel and in places miles away from Israel way before BDS was in the mainstream. And despite the blockade Palestinians have acquired small arms and explosives even from Libya .
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34810155
No countries (even the ones that are no friends of Israel) would provide highly sophisticated weapons to Hamas because everybody knows Hamas would probably blow up the civilian plane as opposed to the Israeli F16.
There is no military solution for that conflict. And Palestinians will never convince Americans to pressure their government against Israel as long as their leaders congratulate those who blow up restaurants or night clubs packed with teenagers.
As opposed to what Mona, the other idiot, is trying to suggest Palestinians terrorists organizations have intentionally targeted civilians, blowing restaurants, blowing up buses in Israel and in places miles away from Israel way before BDS was in the mainstream.
That had stopped. As BDS has gathered steam, I have been quite adamant that Palestinians could not make any acceptable argument for atrocities like blowing up buses. But, if Israel and it’s various Western lobbies are successful in destroying BDS by criminalizing or otherwise impeding speech rights of BDS proponents, my moralizing would retreat and I would feel despair over unending tragedy.
Since you make excuses for denying Palestinians proper weapons of war, and the ability to target Israeli military enclaves, and since you lie about the reality of the criminalization of BDS-advocacy in France, you have no moral right to judge Palestinians when they commit atrocities.
What do you do? Greenwald writes an article on how Hillary Clinton wants to “tighten the bond” with the leader and the country immisserating Palestinians, and you whine about the unfairness of more criticism of Hillary Clinton. Jesus, you vile freak, you have no standing, at all, to judge Palestinians. Or anyone else.
I did it again. This is supposed to be blockquoted, for it is a quote:
“Since you make excuses for denying Palestinians proper weapons of war, and the ability to target Israeli military enclaves, and since you lie about the reality of the criminalization of BDS-advocacy in France, you have no moral right to judge Palestinians when they commit atrocities”
Terrorist sympathizers: ignorant, despicable and irrational. In your case, brain damaged as well.
1) Mona: stop giving weapons to Israel. They use those weapons to commit war crimes.
Give weapons to Hamas whose official policy is to commit war crimes.
2) Me: Show me anything from the French ruling that makes it illegal for me to personally boycott Israel or to say what I want about Israeli policies.
Mona: I never read the court ruling, but you lie about it.
3) Me: I want everybody to abide by international laws including Israel, the US and the Palestinians.
Mona: You are a freak.
It is way better to be a freak demanding the respect of international laws than a brain damaged lawyer, an idiot who sympathizes with terrorists.
Still lying:
You may “personally boycott” anything you like in France. But if you exercise your right to free speech and attempt to convince others to do so you have violated the law.
Something you originally claimed was not true. You had claimed I was wrong when I said it is illegal to wear a T shirt stating “Boycott Israel” in France. You were and are wrong.
Yes, as do I. But Zionists have been grossly violating Palestinians’ human rights, and committing war crimes, for many decades, and now seek to shut down a successful, non-violent means of protest. If they again resort to terrorism, Zionists bear a great deal of the blame. No people would suffer endless killing, oppression and the insufferable arrogance of their enemies openly celebrating their misery without making resort to whatever means left to them to inflict a price. You will not face this fact of human nature.
You endorse not allowing Palestinians to have proper weapons with which to reach Israeli military enclaves, and lie about what is being done to the BDS campaign. You, therefore, have no moral basis on which to judge the Palestinians. You are part of the reason they might be left with no lawful means to fight their profound oppression.
“You may “personally boycott” anything you like in France. But if you exercise your right to free speech and attempt to convince others to do so you have violated the law.
“SOMETHING YOU ORIGINALLY CLAIMED WAS NOT TRUE”
truth&Freedom
Feb. 17 2016, 3:22 p.m.
French laws do not prevent individuals to decide what products they want to use. Those producing and distributing those T shirt would be prosecuted under French laws. The writer on an anti Semitic book would be prosecuted in France, not the readers.
Truth&freedom ? -Mona-
Feb. 17 2016, 5:06 a.m.
“…Boycotting products and services based on the nationality of the producers is a state matter in France. It is part of their penal code.”
truth&Freedom ? rrheard
Feb. 16 2016, 6:07 p.m.
“In France only the State is authorized to boycott products or services from other countries. (French Penal Code 225-2). Citizens buy or sell whatever they want, but convincing other citizens not to buy from Arabic or Israeli stores because of the nationality of the producers or service providers has always been considered illegal under French laws.”
Conclusion: Your brain has been damaged and you cannot comprehend very basic English.
“You had claimed I was wrong when I said it is illegal to wear a T shirt stating “Boycott Israel” in France. You were and are wrong.” Mona
YES. You are wrong and you are still wrong. You are an extremely ignorant individual. The Cour de Cassation clearly explained that the application of Article 24 in a personal level in this case would be a violation of a “physical person rights” to choose what to consume in free trade. The Cour de Cassation considered BDS as an organized GROUP and separated it from individuals who want to consume whatever they want. That is exactly what the State requested the court to consider:
“L’association BDS utilise discours qui procède par amalgame ne pouvant que susciter des réactions discriminatoires”
Again read the ruling here. DO NOT TAKE MY WORDS FOR IT.
https://www.courdecassation.fr/
“You will not face this fact of human nature.”
No. That is your nature. Not human nature. Castro/Che did not intentionally target civilians when facing the mighty military equipped by the US. As opposed to the lie you have been spreading here, the ANC and the UDF provided compelling evidence of measures they took to avoid civilian casualties. Targeting civilians was never part of their policy. The evidence presented has been accepted by Tutu himself. Are Tutu’s words acceptable when it comes to Israel but unacceptable when it comes to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/media%5C1998%5C9805/s980506c.htm
“During the 1960s and most of the 1970s, armed actions by MK resulted in few human rights violations. Targets were symbolic or economic and care was taken not to endanger civilians.”
“There were a few ANC acts of sabotage in this period that resulted in civilian casualties, such as the Goch Street shooting in 1977. For the most part, however,MK operations in this period did not lead to civilian casualties”
“The military operations of MK in this period can be categorised as follows: Firstly,there were bomb attacks on urban targets. The targets selected were meant to be security force related, but the reality is that more civilians than security force personnel were killed in such explosions. The reasons included technical incompetence, faulty devices, poor reconnaissance and poor judgement or misunderstanding
by operatives”
“The second type of military operation was the ‘landmine campaign’ of 1985–86 in the northern and eastern Transvaal. The thinking behind this campaign was that these areas were defined by the South African security forces as being part of a ‘military zone’, and the white farmers were conscripted into a commando. The ANC halted this campaign when it became clear that most victims of such explosions were civilians, including black farm labourers and the wives and children
of farmers.”
“So if a Palestinian blows up a school bus full of Jewish kids in Tel Aviv, he or she “cannot be blamed”? ”
So if an Israeli tank blows up a school full of refugees, a supposedly ‘U.N. safe haven’, they won’t be blamed . .
Of course they would — and Gator would agree with that. He’s making the argument it is always immoral to kill civilians. To me, tho, the morality is more complicated than that absolute when a deeply oppressed people has been robbed of all alternative means of extracting a price from theirmurderers/oppressors.
It’s really hard issue, trying to assess blame.
What a ditz. In Nazi Germany, Poland, France, etc., in WW II, where the Jews were debased, murdered and tortured and suffered deprivation worse than any other recorded in modern history, did even one of them murder innocent German or Polish women or children? Or for that matter, *any* innocent civilian? Never! And is there *anything* that would make *you* murder innocent children?? You’re a fcking apologist for savages and barbarians because your left-wing “brain”, or whatever you call that pink slime in your cranium, is enfeebled and diseased.
No. They were pretty busy being hidden by many Polish and German families, and otherwise attempting to get away from Nazis.
But, Jewish terrorists have, for many decades, killed innocent civilians. They did it in Palestine, in Israel (and still do), and the U.S. (The Jewish Defense League was the FBI’s #1 domestic terrorist organization in the 1980s.) The Nazis and Holocaust destroyed the morality of many Jews who set about slaughtering thousands of Palestinian Arabs, stealing their land and establishing ongoing occupation and oppression.
Palestinians are similarly being driven to barbaric morality. It is human nature. But unlike the Zionists, they are directing their murderous rage at the citizens of their actual oppressor.
http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
Profound truth…if you want it.
Why the hell would they do that,with everyone allegedly after them already ?
That’ll knock the undecided off the fence eh?
Oh,what about the innumerable Jewish resistance groups,they never hurt anyone,not even a mouse.
Gator go already,do the site a service.
Just therapy,let me type.
Well said…
When the UN (who is suppose to be unconnected to the persuasions of tyranny) only gives lip service to the profound dismay of reality, allows their “UN” safe places to be bombed full of women and children, makes a show of discerning the mass destruction of a people(s) land, homes, and lives in Palestine by the hands of ISRAEL/US/EU…
Justice becomes an insane outcry in profound proportions…whatever it may look like which is our only veiled entrance to peace. Israel has made every attempt to cause reprisals by stealing land, homes, livelihoods…withholding life saving medical treatment to the wounded and dying, barring funerals for the dead that they murdered in cold blood, obliterate orchards of olive groves with some trees as old as 2000 years…continuing with well documented military force and executions…
I ask these Israeli sympathizers where is their humanity…except for their own? They deceive the world by infiltrating the world’s media, all posts of government, judicial courts, banks, schools and religious ‘occupation’ while the sleeping sheep are left to be slaughtered.
Wake up America…you will reap what you have sown by voting for this abomination.
You well know that the Palestinians haven’t done that for a decade? now.
And why?Because it was counterproductive to their aim of liberation.When the worlds media plays up the Palestinian atrocities and downplays the Zionists,one has to adjust.
I’m sure you know that,so you are being disingenuous.
I’m not going to bother tho read the whole exchange, so I’ll just step in to say that it is, at least, utterly pointless, not to mention insufferably arrogant and blinkered, to “blame” the victims of decades of state terrorism, brutality, occupation and ethnic cleansing for responding in any way they can devise to the endless attacks from superior forces backed by the most powerful nations on the planet.
When left with no possibility of responding to organized terror with equal resources and on an equal footing, humans will always resort to whatever improvised counterattacks they can devise — indeed, all animals will do that. For humans, with the ability to plan and reason, that usually means directing attacks at soft targets, since the entities most deserving of retaliation are beyond reach. Placed in similar circumstances, you would do the same. It’s a matter of human and animal nature.
Whatever Mona’s exact words, she was was exactly correct.
“When left with no possibility of responding to organized terror with equal resources and on an equal footing, humans will always resort to whatever improvised counterattacks they can devise — indeed, all animals will do that”
That is not true. Black South Africans could have easily blown up civilian buses, restaurants, or shoot civilians on the streets. But the ANC never targeted civilians as a policy. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission supported that fact.
There were many US civilians targets the Viet Cong could have targeted in Indochina. They did not do it even when the US was using chemical weapons against civilians.
It didn’t have to — it was able to reach military targets. But even there, it was quite reckless and often took little care to avoid civilian deaths.
Moreover, the ANC adopted it’s own atrocities, as you’ve been told before. Necklacing was appalling.
Finally, Zionist terrorists also killed innocent civilians. They did so in the U.S. in the 1980s.
I just told him myself– he is amazingly sure of himself for someone so ignorant. I didn’t realize others had told him earlier, but it doesn’t surprise me– people like this often seem impervious to facts that demolish their arguments.
“people like this often seem impervious to facts that demolish their arguments.”
Then it should be easy for you to provide evidence that the ANC had indeed “adopted” necklacing. Statements from ANC rejected necklacing and the leadership even reprimanded Winnie Mandela for making statements in support of necklacing.
http://www.africafiles.org/article.asp?ID=3791
Demolish my argument with facts please.
1) The ANC could not match the most advanced military in Africa. The ANC had no access to highly sophistaced weapons. They had small arms and explosives like Hamas. The ANC leadership while recognizing that crimes were committed by members presented compelling evidence of measures taken to avoid civilian casualties. This is a fact recognized by the Reconciliation commission presided by Tutu. You obviously never read that report available here while you refer to Apartheid South Africa a lot
http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/
2) The ANC publicly distanced itself from whomever supported necklacing including Winnie Mandela.
3) Stupid arguments. All terrorists kill civilians.
“But the ANC never targeted civilians as a policy.”
That’s not true. Between the Internet and my bookshelves, I’m sure I could easily find dozens of instances in which ANC members acknowledged attacks on civilians, or where the evidence that ANC functionaries were involved is overwhelming. No doubt others here with a grasp of modern history and reasonable research skills could do the same.
But just start here:
It is true that ANC attacks more frequently targeted apartheid than, e.g., Hamas attacks directly target the IDF, but 75% of the Israeli population is Jewish and the balance of the Palestinians are effectively walled off in Gaza and the West Bank, while 90% of apartheid-era South Africans were black or “colored” while about 10% where white. The ANC simply had more opportunities and an easier environment in which to target the “real bad guys.”
Do you conveniently disregard “provocation(s)”? It is highly likely that you have never experienced continual, unabating, and unrelentless injustice to the point of madness. You have never lost a dear loved one to an occupying tyrant that has no shame nor remorse, and in that blatantly and openly laughs at your demise. Until you have reached this height of profound horror…you have no understanding of humanity and its cry for help and the over whelming human nature to survive. Selfishness, greed, power, wealth, covetousness, and arrogance is what killed Goliath. Anti semitism is one of the tools that he is using now.
Dear U$A.
thank you for being such a responsible and reasonable global superpower.
you make the world a safer and more beautiful place.
God Bless America.
kind regards.
The Rest Of The World
x
PS. please seek help for your many psychopathic episodes.
Ruh oh! Looks like with the time difference the Hasbara Brigades have finally checked their in-boxes or Facebook and are starting to show up.
Silly little Hasbarists. In the long run the truth is going to getting out and the Zionist project will change its trajectory or its goose will be cooked. Don’t think it will happen in my lifetime but it’s coming.
@BlackFlag and any others seeking support for my claims about Zionist atrocities, past and present.
For a start, see this with the corresponding footnotes. Another good source is the book Genesis: Truman, American Jews, and the Origins of the Arab/Israeli Conflict by John Judis. Also worth reading is My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel, by Israeli journalist Ari Shavit. Shavit tells the atrocious truth about Israel and it’s founding — he simply concludes that as awful as it was, it was justified.
Shavit states: “If need be, I’ll stand by the damned. Because I know that if it wasn’t for them, the state of Israel would not have been born. . . . They did the dirty, filthy work that enables my people, myself, my daughter and my sons to live.”
Of course, it’s quite hyperbolic to state that had “the damned” Zionists not perpetrated appalling crimes against Palestine’s indigenous Arabs that Shavit and his children would not be alive. But if he’s going to admit the truth, that’s the hyperbole he must resort to to make himself seem anything but a monster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyrQL-ZhMy4 Rachel Corrie: The Girl with Dreams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyrQL-ZhMy4 Shocking Clip: Israeli Checkpoint Cruelty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qY92YOlvS4 Visual: Blindfolded Palestinian shot by Soldier with Rubber Bullet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHhECvN2kQI Visual: Settlers attack Palestinian Shepherds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wxHthy3xFY US Groups Fund Israeli Settlers Accused of Killing, Other Violence Against Palestinians
Vote Hillary
Get Netanyahu
2 for the price of one, even if you don’t want to
United States of Israel
Kongresset
Cluster bomb Lebanon and turn Gaza
Gaza is now free, right?
Turn Gaza into a prison with impunity
Turn the West Bank into Apartheid with impunity
and then lobby every government on the planet to slap sanctions on Iran.
Oh and Palestine doesn’t exist because there is no P in Arabic.
It’s too bad the only positive she has is that she’d be the first woman President. I suppose it’s progress to realize that a woman will have policies as dreadful as any man and that sex is no handicap.
So true!! what ever happened to voting for policies?
Vagina voting is as disgusting (I am a 56yr old female) as is voting because someone is black or gay. Ridiculous! vote for policies.
The apartheid subsidy has gone on for too long under both major parties’ administrations.
And it has cost U.S. taxpayers $124.3 billion. *
_____________________________________________________
* See one-page Summary of “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel” report prepared by the Congressional Research Service:
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
Typical Greenwald garbage as it relates to Israel.
Care to post one correction?
What’s your favourite news website, so we can have a look at ‘your’ truth ?
Might I recommend looking at the situation from the longest recorded view we probably have that truly keeps track of current events…the NY Times archives…I recommend starting from the beginning, and reading forward through at least 1949…you might, and I mean might, change your mind about the mad dog Arabs in the region. There never were, nor are now, any people ever referred to as Palestinians, other than the Jews prior to 1964…after that, the “Damascan Arabs” commandeered that name for sympathy/subterfuge. That the Israelis have put up with these terrorists is beyond me…I’d march them into the sea, or implement an appropriate Curtis LeMay type solution…the “Palestinians” would be richly deserving…whenever any of their representatives speaks, it reminds me of when Mubarak, and Arafat, were meeting with the Americans…Arafat spoke, and Mubarak said, “Silence, you Palestinian Dog!” They produce no literature, no durable goods, no entertainment, no moral righteousness, nothing…but death, and more death….just watch their children’s cartoons…they are little better than monsters. And this subject is the quickest way to determine how absolutely warped someone’s moral compass is…do they approve of Israel? If not, they are probably evil, or blind to the abundance of evidence against the Arabs.
Now this little hasbaranik is not ashamed of his racism. No, he wants the world know that Israel has every right to treat Arabs like vermin, because they truly are vermin. I seem to recall another ethnic group being regarded in the same way, and something horrid happened to them. But that was a long time ago, so who cares?
Pride goeth before the fall.
1947 Encyclopedia Britannica World Atlas has a map of Palestine [plate 47].
The country of Palestine reaches from the southern Red Sea port-town of Umm Rashrash to the northern town of Metulia on the Lebanese border. The capital city is marked Jerusalem and District Capitals include Tel Aviv, Haifa, Gaza, Nablus, and Nazareth.
On pages 159-60 of the World Atlas are lists of statistics for Palestine. One of the fifteen major categories includes census data with Political Subdivisions broken down into urban and rural populations. In 1931, rural population is 659,512 and urban population is 376,309. Estimated numbers for 1938 are 790,000 rural and 644,000 urban.
Of a total population of 1,035,821 in 1931, there were 759,712 Moslem [sic], 174,610 Jewish, 91,398 Christians, and 10,101 other.
Estimate for 1938 is 1,435,285 and breaks down as 900,250 Moslem [sic], 411,222 Jewish, 111,974 Christian, and 11,839 other.
Mineral commodities produced and exported by Palestine totaled nearly 150,000 tons worth $1.5 million US in 1938. That jumps to more than $2.5 million in 1944.
Total bank funds in 1939 were $104 million US, with 80% held in deposit and capital reserve with zero foreign investment held.
1945 shows over 22,000 miles of telephone/telegraph lines.
2.4 million tons of cargo moved, with 2.5 million passengers, on rail measuring 647 miles. There were over 2,300 miles of highway and over 1,400 miles of improved roads in 1940.
1936 Manufacturing Totals include more than $42 million US in manufactured product. Categories include, Chemical, Clothing, Electrical, Food, Metals, etc.
Palestine looked like any other country in 1947 as far as the World Atlas was concerned.
Who wiped Palestine of the map?
It would appear that historical “news” is not supported by NYT’s propaganda; imagine that!
Well argued sir.
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
Up-click!
Typical internet trolling. Go pleasure yourself at Fox news.
Since you can’t refute the facts you’ll just skip straight to the insults, huh? The world is finally seeing israel as the terrorist nation that it is, and throwing around insults only makes you look worse.
Fact Muslims have 22 nations with over 1,000,000 plus square miles of land. Fact Israel has a little over 8,000.
Land egalitarianism. Guess that settles it.
Fact Tom Brady has 1,000,000 plus hot women willing to sleep with him. Fact Macroman has a little over 2.
Ladies, step right up. Morality demands it.
The Zionists are working on the remaining 992,000 square miles as we speak.
Hillary, like Thatcher before her is living proof, if you needed it, that women are capable as men in sheer nastiness and corruption. I will be working for Bernie Sanders (yes, I took the trouble to read his book and I advise everyone to do so, he is what he says he is, some foreign policy warts but domestically he shines) I also read a biography on Obama and he is exactly what I expected, a corporate lawyer and corporate courtier. Frankly, if it looks like Hillary will get the nomination (with 700 super delegates it’s very likely) I will switch over, hold my nose and support Donald Trump (most of what you see is showmanship, yes, I read his book too), enough is enough, the working class needs a revolution real bad and for the sake of the world this stuff from the establishment courtier democreeps and republithugs can not be allowed to go on or more American kids will be going hungry. SEIU supports Hillary, scuse me, she spent 6 years on the board of Wal Evil; the Black caucus supports Hillary;they do not support the great mass of Black people, over 1,000,000 of them in jail and most of the rest in reservations and her husband is as responsible with his free trade and de-regulation for the conditions Black people suffer under. If you are not angry, if you are still divided and fighting the culture wars you are beyond hope….come together in the streets people before it’s too late.
Glenn Greenwald, you seem to be another one of the ultra liberals, unable to hide your true agenda. Your title to this article claims extremists, when you describe an alliance with Israel. You also claim Israel is killing it’s defenseless neighbors. The daily attacks on Israel with rockets many being rocket propelled grenades is from defenseless neighbors? Israel is not allowed in your view of going after these terrorists? These are the only people Israel goes after, trying as best the can to limit collateral damage. You Islamic killers have vowed the total destruction of Israel. It’s not hard to identify your alliance to Islam, because you certainly have not displayed true journalism. You know the journalism that used to “ferret” out the truth, no matter what that is.
~200 Nuclear weapons, most of then Thermonuclear, many mounted on ICBMs able to reach out and touch almost anywhere on earth; yeah, it’s neighbors are defenseless engaged in a futile battle between their own various factions against their own people. Why do you think ISIL is so popular?
Glenn is not Islamist.. He’s from a Jewish background and has washed his hands from the actions of the terrorist state which you might know as Israel.
Glenn has implicitly done more to hold officials democratically accountable than you will ever will. Hillary is political establishment monster. It is time for Americans to stop burrowing from China and giving to Israel, Egypt and Pakistan.
#feelthebern
What a pile of Zionist bullshit. Zionist terrorists have been stealing land from Arabs, ethnically cleansing them, murdering them, and oppressing them, since before Israel’s founding in ’48. To this day, Israel commits war crimes. It has used Palestinian civilians as human shields more than 1200 times.
In the West Bank, Zionist terrorists murder and oppress Arabs with impunity. They burned an Arab baby and his parents to death, and Zionist wedding parties celebrate this atrocity — dancing while stabbing pictures of the dead baby.
Hillary Clinton is an extremist supporting obscene Israeli extremist.
I can document all my fact claims on request.
“In the West Bank, Zionist terrorists MURDER and oppress Arabs with IMPUNITY. They burned an Arab baby and his parents to death, and Zionist wedding parties celebrate this atrocity — dancing while stabbing pictures of the dead baby.”
On January 3, 2016 four Israelis were charged for violent acts against Palestinians. Amiram Ben Uliel was charged with three counts of murder, attempted murder, membership in a terrorist organization, conspiracy to commit racist motivated felony for the arson attack that killed the 18 month baby.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Duma-indictments-expected-today-439195
An “intellectually sophisticated” individual would actually pick a real example of impunity when accusing authorities of disregarding crimes committing by a group.
That is true, and a rare exception that proves the rule. Note, however, that those Jewish terrorists and their families will keep their homes. Israel usually razes or confiscates the homes of Arab terrorists.
Moreover, none other than the former director of Israel’s version of the FBI has lamented that in the West Bank there are two sets of laws. A very lenient set for Jews who act with near impunity, and a draconian one for Arabs.
Referring to the West Bank as “The State of Judea” he writes:
This is the Israel Hillary Clinton wants to embrace harder. Jesus.
“That is true, and a rare exception that PROVES THE RULE”
An “intellectually sophisticated” individual would prove the rule with data. Not opinion. So please provide DATA that back your accusations that Zionists murders in the West Bank go unpunished as a rule.
I never stated that I was an “intellectually sophisticated” individual, but if for instance, I accuse Israel of violation of international laws I would cite Article 49 of the Geneva Convention to back my accusation. That would make it hard for others to call me an idiot.
Well, I think I’ll just rest on Yuval Diskin’s knowledge rather than hop to the demands of a guy on the Internet (that would be you).
Translation: I have no data to back my accusation, but I am an “intellectually sophisticated” individual.
Nothing personal. You just prove that you are an idiot.
The idiot, former Shin Bet director Yuval Diskin.
Oh No. He is smart. He is actually a very smart individual. He was just giving his opinion. The ‘intellectually sophisticated” individuals as opposed to the idiots like you would search for data, evidence to evaluate his opinion. So, you are the ignorant, the idiot, the brain damaged lawyer who failed to back your accusation with data.
(Actually you did provide data, but as an idiot the example about the murdered baby you provided proved the opposite of what you stated).
Jesus, one would think you’d eventually tire of continually being shown to be wrong. Well, here it goes again. First this:
Let’s fix that so it’s accurate:
And then there’s this:
Yet again, no. You are wrong.
Those arson/murders were finally prosecuted, because that particular atrocious crime captured world attention. But I assure you, those Jewish terrorists and their families will keep their homes. In contrast to the Arab terrorists whose homes, and those of their families, are routinely razed or confiscated.
In Israel or the occupied territories, it never happens to Jewish homes. Ever.
Yet again, no. You are wrong.
“Those arson/murders were finally prosecuted, because that particular atrocious crime captured world attention.”
So provide more examples of murders that have been ignored by the authorities, so we can both conclude BASED ON SO MANY MURDERS THAT HAVE GONE UNPUNISHED WE CAN SAY THIS IS THE RULE THAT ZIONISTS MURDERS IN THE WEST BANK GO UNPUNISHED.
You stated that zionists murders go unpunished and this is the rule. But the only example you can provide to support that rule is one case in which the perpetrators got punished.
Nobody in their right mind would deny that the Palestinians under occupation do not face serious abuses. But stating that Israeli authorities ignore murders against Palestinians while you cannot provide examples of the murders that have been ignored is not the way an “intellectually sophisticated” individual would present her case.
The only terrorists that need combating are the israeli terrorists…enough of your bought and paid for ignorance Larry or is it Daryl?
If not for Israeli terrorists,there might be no terrorists at all.:)
…so are you a shekel boy or on the clinton payroll?
Incidentally, Hillary Clinton is currently the #3 recipient of oil-industry cash, slightly behind #2 Jeb Bush, with the #1 slot held by Koch-Brothers-financed Ted Cruz.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-02-18/surging-cruz-is-big-oil-s-new-crush-as-donors-cool-to-bush
“Cruz led in direct contributions from oil and gas company employees with $675,000, according to an analysis of Federal Election Commission filings by the Center for Responsive Politics in Washington. Bush, who led the money chase in June, was second with $420,600. Clinton followed with $227,000.”
That doesn’t include all the secret SuperPAC money, of course – but it does make one wonder about her claims to be concerned about global warming, or her claims that she will support the clean energy revolution in office – as if her State Department tenure record of endless pro-fossil fuel work, or the big Saudi donations to the Clinton Foundation were not enough for that.
Ted,just call me ineligible,Cruz?
“It may be tempting to dismiss this as standard, vapid Clintonian politicking: adeptly telling everyone what they want to hear and making them believe it. ”
Yes, it may be very tempting to dismiss almost everything any candidate says about Israel. And that’s because what they say now is meaningless. Hillary is simply protecting that particular political flank.
The US has created its own trap with Israel. We are clearly over-committed to support a terrible, quasi-fascist Israeli government. But the US is also facing the possibility of becoming a hard right quasi fascist government. When it comes to American politics, full alligence to Israel is a given … in the establishment circles. You might get Sanders or Trump to criticize Israel. But even that possibility is unlikely.
Hillary has a history of stronger rhetoric concerning FP … but far more telling is her actions while Secretary of State. Clinton was a SoS that helped restore the standing of the US around the world.
I’m disturbed by how many progressives have bought into the GOP attack plan against Clinton. I don’t care who you support, but we are facing the very real disaster of a Trump presidency. If the news media really wants to perform its civic duty and inform voters, how about reporting on what Clinton did in her 6 years of being Secretary of State? That might inform us far better how Clinton will deal with Israel than the standard campaign loyalty oath.
You mean, like Libya where she was as responsible as anyone. (we came, we conquered, he died), that’s a quote. Like 6 years on the board of Walmart; like making more money from an hours speech to Lloyd Blankfein than she will earn in a year as POTUS; I would choose Trump before her.
I get it Bob. Where can you have your anger and frustration heard? When a system like the US is broken, there is no place to register a complaint. Voting for the “sensible” candidate doesn’t work so what do you do-? I like that there are Americans thinking like this. Its time your systems incredible corruption and warts were out front and centre.
I am sorry it hurts so many people. Time for people down there to wake up.
Oddly Sanders, the lone Jew running for president, is the only one who advocates Palestinian statehood. Being Jewish himself, I think he is capable of seeing Israel as a nation that isn’t simply a monolith of its jingoistic Likud party, as opposed to the views of most candidates on Israel which are unadulterated support lacking any specificity or nuance.
But it’s important not to dismiss Israel as ‘extremist’ as this article, oddly, does. It’s a democracy where the militaristic hard line right wing has taken over the executive branch thanks to partisan fearmongering. Sound familiar? Because we’re about a year from that happening here. Netanyahu is Israel’s Ted Cruz (except he’s fine with gay marriage and abortion because the right/left in Israel fight over diplomacy more than social issues).
At risk of repeating what might well have been said in one or more of the dozens of comments below, isn’t “make it one of her top priorities to strengthen the U.S.-Israel alliance” mere code for ‘will soon enough find reason for the US to declare war on Iran’?
Pretty much.
What would a rational approach to the Middle East in the 21st century look like, that’s the question that the establishment candidates can’t handle – because they don’t set the policy, they’re apparatchiks who march in step with the dictates of their top fundraisers.
On the right, you’ve got Sheldon Adelson, who isn’t used to having Republicans (i.e. Trump, who is busy farting in the halls of Republican power, hilariously) spell out what’s blatantly obvious – Israeli right-wing politicians don’t actually want a peace deal with Palestinians, they want to keep the violence going as an excuse to seize more Palestinian lands via the “settler movement”.
More centrist-left is AIPAC (who split with Adelson) and sponsors, and Hillary Clinton’s views on Israel are written by that organization, verbatim – she’s a walking talking dancing robot on that score.
Sanders is ducking the whole issue, perhaps having bigger fish to fry, which I don’t mind. That’s the point, though – of what importance is Israel to American foreign policy these days? The answer is, unequivocally, not much. There’s a lot about Israel to like, on the science-technology front, such as their ability to grow 95% of their own food (the Saudis are at what, 5%?), etc. There’s a lot not to like, such as their undeclared nuclear weapons program (which should be forced to accept IAEA inspections, just like Iran), their South African apartheid-style mentality – it’s a mixed bag, in need of a South African-style Truth and Reconciliation commission, certainly.
Nevertheless, they don’t have as much influence on U.S. foreign policy as Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Kuwait and Bahrain do, with their massive holdings of U.S. Treasury bonds, large sums in US banks, giant contracts with weapons manufacturers. Hillary Clinton, we can be sure, is far more comfortable talking about her relationship with Israel than she would be talking about Saudi donations to the Clinton Foundation, and her role at State approving billions in arms deals with repressive anti-democratic regimes. The same goes for Jeb Bush – loyal supporter of Israel, he’ll admit, but try getting him to comment on Craig Unger’s House of Bush, House of Saud : The Secret Relationship Between the World’s Two Most Powerful Dynasties. Try getting the corporate media to even ask that question, while you’re at it.
But even the Saudis are not so important to real American interests, as say, China and Japan are – the Saudis are purveyors of bottom-of-the-barrel heavy sour crude, with an economic future that looks pretty bleak – what was Matt Damon’s line in Syriana? “What does the business world think? They think that a hundred years ago you were running around in the desert chopping each other’s heads off, and that’s where you’ll be in another hundred. After oil, your biggest export was dates, followed by secondhand goods – so, well done!”
That’s why we just need to get the hell out of the Middle East, and treat the whole conflict zone like we treat the Pakistan-Indian conflict – i.e., not backing Iran on one side, or Saudi Arabia and Israel (yes, they are partners, weird as that may seem) on the other, but instead pushing for diplomatic solutions, peace talks, etc. Enough is enough. Obama, at least, has made some good strides towards that goal – ignoring Israel, reaching out to Iran, comforting the nervous Saudis – not a bad performance, even if his covert actions in Syria have been a massive disaster of FUBAR proportions, with Russia having to step in to bail him out.
This is one of the best summaries of the US/Israel dynamic and its role in our election process that I’ve ever read, and a worthy addendum to the feature article. Thanks!
Ditto! Though I had to think about FUBAR, we here use SNAFU… : )
With the Saudis pumping at full tilt, one wonders if they’ve forgotten how they came to power. When those taps run dry, they will die.
Your critique of Arab industry reveals the utter BS of Islamofascism,as they have no tank,plane or weapon factories outside of homegrown ingenuity.
They are incapable of anything wo our weaponry.
You’d think they’d embargo the region from weaponry.huh?Hahahahah….divide and conquer,and the Muslim leaders are jelly in Zionist hands.Look at Erdogan,from Mavi Marmara to Israel partnership for one.sheesh.
And Israel and Saudis sitting in the tree k-i-s-s-i-n-g.
Release the 28 pages(hounds)!
Selling out the Palestinians is the current price of power in all western democracies. At least the Jews buying up western politicians by the bagman full seem to have those running for office convinced of it. The support of the average voter for the BDS movement proves them wrong but when do our politicians ever concern themselves with the wishes of the average voter? Hell, they never even meet average voters without heavy security between them. All they ever meet is the people trying to buy them and those who already have.
The only way I can see out of this quagmire is by assassinating the corrupt politicians to make the others fall in line. I’m going to an example of you is the favourite line used by judges so perhaps it’s something we should try on our sellout politicians.
shhhh;how about;vote em out.
Thank you again for proving why no reasonable person of even average intelligence trusts this publication!
Thank you again for proving why no reasonable person of even average intelligence trusts Hillary Clinton!
[there fixed it for you–somehow you got confused and thought you were saying something meaningful]
Say the one who has no intelligence at all.
@ Truth&Freedom
Did you say something? Yaaawwwwwwn. Still waiting for you to come to Oregon and demonstrate your legal skills in an American court of law against my non-existent ones.
Anyway it will be fun to watching how long it will take for you to be banned for crapflooding threads with nonsense. My guess is about 3 weeks, before Glenn and others on the TI staff tire of your disruptive nothing-burger posts and pull your bilge plug.
“Still waiting for you to come to Oregon and demonstrate your legal skills in an American court of law against my non-existent ones.”
Legal skills are not needed against an ignorant who stated Russia has a valid claim against a sovereign territory recognized under international laws.
“Anyway it will be fun to watching how long it will take for you to be banned for crapflooding threads with nonsense.”
I love when you always prove my point. You think banning me would make your factually incorrect statements, your illogical analysis acceptable?
No intelligence indeed.
@ Truth&Freedom
Yawwwwwwn. Amisinformeddouchesayswhat?
Might want to check the current status of Crimea. And learn the meaning of fait accompli. Crimea will be a part of Russia into the foreseeable future and there is nothing the UN or anyone else will be able to do about it.
Oh yeah and you should quote me directly when you try and argue with me otherwise you look like a fool. What I said was, paraphrased, that if you understood the history of Crimea and Sevastopol you’d understand that Russia [notwithstanding Ukraine’s independence and inclusion of Crimea] historically has more important “interests” there and a better historical claim than the US has to any particular “interest” America claims in the ME.
And again, you should do your research and learn what the word “autonomous” means with regard to Crimea. Go ahead and click on the link so you stop looking like a misinformed fool with regard to Crimea’s history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Republic_of_Crimea
“Crimea will be a part of Russia into the foreseeable future and there is nothing the UN or anyone else will be able to do about it.”
I like this one better.
“Jerusalem will be part of Israel into the foreseeable future and there is nothing the UN or anyone else will be able to do about it”.
“And again, you should do your research and learn what the word “autonomous” means with regard to Crimea. Go ahead and click on the link so you stop looking like a misinformed fool with regard to Crimea’s history.”
And I thought Mona was the most illiterate lawyer around here. Are you the one giving legal advice to the Bundy family?
Meh, your inane behavior flows from the fact that you wish rr and I were illiterate. Promiscuous hurling of words like “Idiot” or “Dumb Ass” and lots of exclamation points are your default. When you do undertake actual argument you get slaughtered, and scoot right back to mindless name-calling.
rr is right. It’s likely only a matter of time before Glenn decides this current incarnation of your crapflooding self is not welcome.
“When you do undertake actual argument you get slaughtered”
Yes, slaughtered by the one who described young Arabs in France who have more legal protection and more social services than their American counterparts as “deeply oppressed”.
Slaughtered by the one whose example of unpunished murders is a case where the perpetrator is actually in jail.
By any means beg for Greenwald to ban me and all the others who rightly call you an idiot. That would prove my point.
Apaintchipeatinghasbaristsayswhat?
I leave it to the rest of the readers and commenters here to decide who is full of shit–me or you. Pretty sure I know the answer.
Your pathetically weak ass schtick is old news around here. I’ve dealt with it for years from a lot more savvy pretenders than you in these threads.
I know all I need to know about the differences between someone like me and someone like you–you’re a coward who hides behind a pseudonym and metric tons of bullshit while I post openly under my real name, with facts you are free to refute if you can, and with all the possible consequences to my life and livelihood of standing by my opinions and arguments openly.
You got nothing but lame repetitive insults that to me are like the sweet sweet tears of hasbarists and Likud fellow travelers all over the globe when they see people rejecting their propaganda en masse. Here’s a newsflash–the vast majority of the world’s people don’t see the state of Israel as “victims” but rather “oppressors” and every day and in every way the government of Israel reinforces that perception among the world’s people.
Your schtick is weak, your morality non-existent, and you better pray the US of A continues to fund your little experiment otherwise the only options left in the long run for the state of Israel will be capitulation to Palestinian statehood or the Samson option.
1) I do not care about what the readers think. Most of them here are idiots like you.
2) No, not just insults. I got you writing women are not allowed to go to university in Saudi Arabia. That is false. I got you writing statistically drones strikes result in higher civilian casualties than ground operations. There is no such study. I got you suggesting Russia has a valid claim in Crimea. That is patently false under international laws. The same international laws that you use to attack Israel.
3) I am not weak. I have a solid case against you. When a so called lawyer consistently distorts facts, shows his ignorance of basic international laws then it is a matter if fact that he is an idiot. Nothing personal. I do not know you and I do not want to know, but you are an idiot.
The Zionists hate Russia,Snowden,Assange,Manning and every truth teller this side of heaven.
We know that,stop exposing yourself,its indecent.
Don’t follow leaders, watch the parkin’ meters. . .
http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/83656/
Apparently you could find no factual or logical problems with the piece. Vacuous insults are not a respectable substitute.
The “extremist” position on Israel is that espoused by Islamists, with whom the delusional, self-hating Jewish author and delusional liberals/leftists/progressives generally sympathize.
Ah yes, the old “If you criticize Israel, you hate Jews and love terrorists” line. Gee, that sounds pretty fascist, don’t you think?
GG: Hillary shills for Israel.
Robert: You hate yourself.
Bit of a non sequitur. I don’t think you’re going to get paid much for that one.
Its amazing, the state of denial Hillary’s supporters must occupy.
I doubt that any of the survivors of the USS Liberty or their families would have supported her before, but this confirms it.
“Clinton, in her book and in interviews, has often criticized Obama for being insufficiently hawkish: making clear that she wanted to be more militaristic than the Democratic President who has literally bombed 7 predominantly Muslim countries (thus far).”
The “war on terror” is nothing more than a proxy war for Israel. Any candidate pledging perpetuity of this crime is literally and practically appealing to Israel. Clinton just prostitutes herself more obviously.
Is Sanders any different? Hell no!
http://youtu.be/Vf2cCdgwgoM
Well said! I started voting for the Green Party as a protest vote in 2012, but now I’m more convinced we need more than a 2 party system. I know it could take longer to get anything done because coalition members differences but it’s a minimal cost for the diversity in thought in government.
I think that Sanders would be more reserved on Israel/Palestine, and foreign policy in general. Hillary would be far, far, more hawkish. As much as I would love another party, the possibility of it occurring in a presidential election first is unrealistic to say the least. Please vote against the neocons and vote for Sanders.
If HRC gets the nomination, a Republican getting to the Whitehouse would be inevitable. The irony is that the progressive backlask against a Republican president might prevent destructive policies more than a Hillary administration.
If Hillary is nominated it is a shoe-in for Trump or his nearest equivalent. It never ceases to amaze me how the democratic machine fails to realize her unpopularity. I know of NO ONE who likes her or who want to vote for her.
The acquiesence, if not outright advocacy, of the Democrats re Iraq would suggest otherwise. But, they did keep that powder dry.
That we are supporting this neo-fascist genocidal theocracy is a disgusting betrayal of our ideals and values. That Mrs. Clinton wants to do this with more umph makes me want to pull out my hair in sheer frustration. For shame, for shame! What next, will she buy a condo in one of the settlements when she wants a break from Martha’s Vineyard?
I’ve often wondered if American pols own land in Israel,or even the WB?
Hillary… A neocon hawk of the highest order
Don’t wine about Israeli “occupation” or misconduct. Arabs were committing acts of terror and general violence toward Jews in the 1920’s and 30’s -before the formation of the modern state of Israel. This is not an issue of oppression. They had plenty of chances to form a country. Gaza is not an open air prison. It’s a region run by an aggressive military regime that is in a self declared state of war with Israel. What country would ever not block an aggressive/genocidal neighbor from acquiring weapons if they could?
It’s not an issue of oppression because you say it is? Can you share something else equally as empty-headed? I’ll wait.
You are incorrect. Zionist terrorists ushered in many of the modern forms of terrorism. Arab terrorism against them in the 1920s was because violent, land-thieving Zionists led by Vladimir Jabotisnky made clear their intention to take all the land and to drive out the indigenous Arabs, as Jabotinsky put it, with “bayonets.” Jabitinsky explicitly rejected attempting to negotiate with the people whose land he proposed to steal because he agreed they would naturally see it as an outrageous, immoral demand.
On request, I can support all of my fact claims.
Please do (provide sources — preferably academic). I ask not because I have any doubt, but simply to better inform myself. Thanks so much!
The US allowed Israel to build some 400 nuclear weapons.
It is an amusing tactic of people with your talent to morph every issue into something about anti-Israel etc.
That is fine – you have a right to do that, you are entitled to support your country, Israel.
As US taxpayers, we don’t want to pay for your wars Lenny – that is all!
So much blathering just to say “I hate Israel & “Zio’s”?
One more small note. If HRC gets the nomination, I’ll support her because as hawkish as she is, I believe any GOP would be a disaster of unimaginable magnitude for do mastic and foreign policy.
So said Dorothy spinning in her house in the twister.
Someday, I’m not sure when, the US alliance with Israel will be a detriment to a peaceful existence in the ME. I already see many problems arising from this unholy reliance of a strategic point once viewed as the only place to conduct cold war policy against the USSR. The cold war’s over, oil WILL run out and then Israel will be left with a nuclear armed belligerent state in a region left with no resources to support 150,000,000 people. This is coming, I just don’t have a good timeline. Right now the US can continue supporting a “problem child” Israel at quite the cost, but soon the US govt will need to reassess policy once the oil in the region runs out. I don’t think the region will be sustainable once that happens.
the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, news at 6
Hilary Clinton, does she not realize apartheid, racism, ethnic cleansing, and land theft when she see’s it? No how can she. She continues to support billions in Welfare hand outs the the illegal occupation called Israel. She voted yes to bomb and invade Iraq that has since left 1.2 million dead. How can she when her own Police Depts killed 1205 Americans last year. How can she when her prisons have the majority of people of color in them. Clinton is no different to the crass Republicans who are running. These people are not leaders, they are corporate Business People. Clinton is about herself, power hungry, and driven by money. The USA needs to change and fast, troops are building in Syria.. Russia Just buzzed the UK with bombers and Clinton vowed to bomb Iran, how absolutely insane is she, that her arrogance and ignorance if elected, could lead the USA into WW3. Hilary Clinton will not stand alone in the pages of history, the list will be long, those who supported the Apartheid state of Israel, who murders Palestinians daily, continues to build ugly settlements on stolen land, inhabited by New York Zionists and Euro gangster trash. 180 Palestinians have been murdered by the IOF since Oct 2015, of those 180, 49 were children and 17 women. Most are shot and left to bleed to death in the streets, videos of zionists and IOF laughing and taking selfies and kicking them as they lay dying. It is time to end the Imperialist USA war machine.
Nail in coffin- Goodbye Hillary!
Here’s a hilarious article by Joshua Block of “The Israel Project” an Israeli PR firm dedicated to freshening up the image of right wing apartheid.
The thesis seems to be that a “progressive” was heretofore someone such as Tony Blair
But Bernie Sanders has usurped the term:
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. A right wing Israeli PR firm, first trying to define “progressive”, then claiming that Sanders, who if memory serves describes himself as a “democratic socialist”, has horrors!! “claimed the mantle of Progressive”.
To those who don’t want to read the rest of the article, I can’t blame you,…essentially it’s, enough of the talk about wealth redistribution!!, vote Clinton or one of the Republicans!!, oh and bomb Iran!!!
I went to Hebrew school with Josh Block. He was a douche then too.
I guess the others simply weren’t grievous enough…
Thank you for giving me more information from your clearly pro-Palestinian perspective. Given your clear bias I can use this article to get more of my fellow congregants to support Hillary Clinton to be our next President.
If the truth is pro-Palestinian, so be it.
Then you and your fellow congregants are vicious and vile.
Indeed, Mona.
@ DAVID
Well you better hope there are numerically more of your “fellow congregants” than the number of actual liberals/progressives the Democratic Party will lose if Hillary Clinton is the nominee–and then hello POTUS Trump.
Personally, I could care less if Hillary loses to Trump. He’d be a disaster and she’d be worse. She’ll fracture the Democratic Party forever and then watch the Democratic Party at the national level struggle to get elected federal dog catcher.
Okay maybe not forever, but for a generation or more.
She’ll fracture the Democratic Party forever and then watch the Democratic Party at the national level struggle to get elected federal dog catcher.
I read a piece the other day that had a similar analysis regarding the race (should HRC win the nom), the electability of Sanders and where it may all end up afterward. I found it really interesting:
http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2016/02/10/why-bernie-sanders-is-more-electable-than-people-think/
Apologies for the lengthy blockquote. The entire article is good, with some rather striking charts that can’t be reproduced here.
I think this can be directed at, among others, Paul Krugman…
Here here! I agree with your analysis on the fall of neoliberalism– why? it didn’t work, it was just one elite (the right) being replaced with another elite (the left). Nothing for anyone else…
Also as a former economist, I used to revere Krugman, he has deeply disappointed me with his unbending Hilary support.
@ Pedinska
Thanks for the link. I agree with what he/she argued with the exception of a portion of the following statement:
Stagflation didn’t “discredit Keynesian egalitarianism” or Keynesian theory generally. It simply discredited certain aspects of Keynesian theory/models, rightly so, and the Phillips Curve specifically and the limits of certain monetary policies.
Obviously this is a problem with “economics” generally–its propensity to rely on inappropriate assumptions or propensity to misapprehend reality as a function of their “models” or to incorporate comprehensively all relevant variables in trying to explain a relationship/situation. That’s one of my big beefs with “economics” being treated as a “science” like physics or chemistry. It is unlike either, and never will be.
Keynesians misunderstood, in some ways, the relationship between aggregate demand/aggregate supply and the potential for a cost or supply shock (i.e cost push inflation) and that its effects were difficult to combat with certain monetary policies in the short run vs. long run. Volcker fixed part of stagflation by cranking up interest rates but couldn’t fix the recession and unemployment problems created.
Most of us around here are presumably old enough to have lived through it. It was no bueno. I vividly to this day remember gas rationing and the advent of locking gas caps because someone was always trying to siphon gas out of the neighborhood cars.
A deflationary spiral is a difficult problem to address with monetary policy too (quantitative easing) depending on its severity and causes–see Japan.
I certainly don’t believe that one misunderstanding discredited all of Keynes ideas, and I doubt there is consensus among economists that it did. But that would probably be a better question for someone like Macroman.
You’re right that stagflation discredited the Philips curve (which was first identified by Irving Fisher in the 1920s; models are commonly named after the second economist to put it forward, for some reason) and not Keynesianism. That is demonstrated by the fact that the vast majority of modern macroeconomists are (post-,New-) Keynesians, and the key aspect all forms of modern Keynesians embrace is sticky (input, usually) prices, which in a roundabout way is what justifies all the intervention that Keynes originally called for (as it did in the original argument). However, although Philips is discredited in our verbiage, a close look at the models will always reveal a Philips curve embedded — if there is no trade-off between inflation and unemployment, there is no role for monetary policy. In fact, justifying active policy is almost certainly the sole reason these models exist. Keep in mind that the Fed is the largest employer of macroeconomists, and the second biggest is the BLS. You’re also right that economics is a faux (not “hard”) science, which I do not think many economists would argue against. We lack the counterfactuals necessary for the scientific method to apply. I have a minor disagreement on your claim that Keynes didn’t understand cost- push inflation, as he makes comments in the general theory about when centrally-directed investment should not be engaged in that strongly imply that he thought that his prescriptions applied only to a deflationary environment (though he makes contradictory statements, suggesting in one bit that the government should always direct investment). Anyway, I am not a Keynesian and do not think the AD/AS concepts make much sense, nor do I think that, assuming the concepts are useful, that AD necessarily slopes downward or is empirically identifiable in any sensible or usable way. Finally, I would suggest that you consider putting the deflationary spiral concept in the same dustbin as “too big to fail” — it is a scare tactic politicians and their academic apologists use to rob you. It is from (the same) Fisher’s 1933 “debt deflation” paper that was a post justification of the GD Fisher (“Stocks have reached a permantently high plateau” — 1929) insisted couldn’t happen. He, like Keynes, was brilliant, and wrong about almost everything (at least the stuff they are famous for — Keynes’ critique of the Versailles treaty is one of the best analyses in the subject’s history, though). They both ignored the lead-up to the deflation in 1929-1933 and misidentified cause and hence consequences and cures. But Bernanke, Yellen, and most prominent macroeconomists today view that paper as the foundation (along with Friedman and Schwarz) of modern monetary responses to financial panics. It will be a bumpy ride for some time yet.
Right nationalists blame foreigners and minorities?
Maybe wacko racists,but most patriots blame neolibcon globalization and the destruction of America on traitors and Zionists,who have promoted every nation destroying policy,like healthcare for profit,Citizen United,endless war for Zion,Russophobia,and the globalization scam which has eviscerated America into cheap junk land,no wage increases,housing depreciation,main street ghost towns,uncounted unemployment and myriad other issues swept under MSM rugs of unaccountability.
The rage is bipartisan and non ideological.
Do you really believe she gives a damn about you? But your vote is the bait.
Dear DAVID,
Like Lenny, it is an amusing tactic of people with your talent to morph every issue into something about anti-Israel etc.
That is fine – you have a right to do that, you and your congregants are entitled to support your country, Israel.
As US taxpayers, we don’t want to pay for your wars DAVID – that is all! Please share that with your fellow congregants and tell them to take their war machine elsewhere.
HRC is Netanyahu’s willing and eager whore. She places her relationship with him above all else, including US national interests and security.
Just like 99% of U.S. politicians…
Although I am voting for Hillary this really gives me pause. The whole idea of strengthening anything between Israel and the U.S. just galls me!
They have committed egregious war crimes against the Palestinians for much too long with our full support and aid!
Netenyahu has got to go and so does our relationship with Israel!
So why are you voting for a candidate who is totally at odds with your views?
Because Bernie will likely not get the nomination.
Why are you acting surprised? I implore you to look a little further into both Sanders and Clinton, and reconsider your choice. One of the primary reasons why there won’t be peace in the Middle East is because the U.S. continues to aid Israel in the takedown of its rivals. There is a reason why Clinton was so hesitant to ease restrictions on Iran, and it’s because Israel complained about having a rival in the region.
Politicians (like Hillary Clinton) have completely ruined the Democratic Party by selling it out to special interests. Just look at how hard she and the establishment cronies (Debbie Schultz, Claire McCaskill, etc) have tried to attack Sanders on plans that all Democrats should support. I never thought I’d see the day where the Democratic Party exposes itself as being possibly more corrupt than the Republican Party, but here we are.
The party is so corrupt that somehow a wealthy individual who sat on the board of directors for two of the worst corporations in the world (Monsanto and Wal Mart) is somehow being seen as a representative of the oppressed.
Beautifully said! Hillary supports anything that supports her pockets, the military industrial complex, wall street, big pharmacy, insurance companies. She is a war monger and a fraud!
Vote Bernie Sanders, he votes no to Wars. Clinton will just feed them as she is an owned corporate War Monger. She profits from wars and cares nothing about the American people, or the Palestinian people.
@ Dan
Precisely. If Hillary Clinton gets the nomination she will fracture the Democratic Party nationally for a generation at least. Again, that would be foolish and tragic, but sometimes you have to rip a scab off, and let it get some air to heal. I’m fine with that. Didn’t have to be that way but if that’s what the Democratic Party leadership wants and has become, then so be it. If they can’t earn votes then that’s on them and no one else.
Doesn’t bother me in the slightest to switch my party affiliation to independent or otherwise unaffiliated. The national Dem committees haven’t gotten a dime from me in a long time anyway so no skin of my nose.
“I would also invite the Israeli prime minister to the White House in my first month in office.”
Sorry, but not good enough. She must pledge to personally remove off Netaniahu’s underwear, hand-wash it, mouth-dry it by blowing on it and then dress the Prime Minister back up but only after affectionately kissing every square inch of His powerful midsection, all on live, public television so that we all know it’s true.
Sanders’ focus on domestic issues is actually a fairly obvious statement on his foreign policy views. While I agree Sanders can and should do more to articulate his FP, another source that seems undeveloped to me is Sanders’ Congressional record. His floor speeches alone in both chambers of Congress over the years give a pretty consistent view of his foreign policy orientation. Reporting that employed Sanders’ extensive congressional record (look at youtube alone) would produce a pretty accurate picture. Someone should do that. Maybe they have and I haven’t seen it.
Israel is about religion, but in modern times, it is more about having Israel intact for the rapture. It was the GOP that invited Netanyahu to congress; most elected jewish people (all democrats because there are no elected republican jews) refused to attend.
Stupid move by Clinton.
Israel only uses “religion” to further its own nefarious goals…
Chuck ShomerSchumer didn’t attend?ha.He was under the lectern.
It seems impossible for journalists to adequately assess Nuclear Israel and it’s relationship with the US. There are too many political trip-wires and things you’re not supposed to say. It goes much deeper than the Adelson/Lobbying forces and more into the intelligence connections between DC/London/TelAviv/Riyadh and the extremist factions who act without any accountability. Syria conflict: cui bono? It takes a lot of discipline to avoid mentioning Israel in the Syrian clusterfuck, yet they have been studiously ignored. There is Israel’s concessions to the Cheney/Rothschild/Woolsey Genie Energy Co in Golan Heights in 2013. There is the PNAC and Clean Break. And although you’re not supposed to talk about it, I would be interested in knowing about the nuclear-war-games (Global Guardian) which were in play on the day of 9/11 and what factions within the US Gov. had control over them? Seems unlikely but not impossible that certain demands/ransoms could have been made on US foreign policy. Now, we are thankfully allowed to question the 2003 invasion of Iraq, but it is still off-limits to question the Reichstag fire of 9/11 and the foreign policy coup that followed.
Just like it’s always been “off-limits” to question the Holo-to-have-cost…
When suppressing the truth there will always be a few convicted truth seekers. I commend yours.
Everyone that read this article is an anti-Semite and will burn in the eternal lake of fire. God told me so herself.
Fuuuuuck. I was doing so well…
No government can serve two masters, and a government that serves Israel cannot, does not, and will not serve the American people. A friend of Israel is no friend of America. In these dark times America needs leaders who will put America first, second, and third!
Yeah,
I’ve heard of trying to be in two places at once, but now you
want three.
Here is a clue.
“America” is a concept, based upon a fantasy which requires
imagining that pillaging for monetary profits
while pretending to be a democracy (which it has never been)
is a sign of superiority.
The abundance of natural resources which the fake U$A has
squandered and polluted for money is now
reduced and being reduced farther in the name of
“the american way of life” and the desire for more
has instigated the drive for global domination of resources
for more privatized corporate monetary profits.
“In god we trust” is on the money because money is god
in the fake U$A.
The reduction of rights and the equating of money and speech
are clear indicators of how debased the fake U$A has become.
Without an integrated constitution, the idea of a democratic
nation is bogus.
The thing which is the most prominent aspect of the foreign
policies of the fake U$A is that reinforcing militarized violence
is the preferred version of “progress” for the democrats and
republicans alike.
Equal justice, not so much.
Health care, not so much.
Democracy, not so much.
Environmental quality, only if it gets worse.
Glenn, it is beyond ridiculous to use the categorization of
“progressive establishment” unless
you think that warmongering and other corporate predations
are a form of progress.
Perhaps you mean pseudo-progressives or fake progressives.
The “progressive caucus” has shown itself to be a
load of fakers again and again. They say nice words and then
they proudly support warmongers and corporate predators.
As for Israel and the Palestinians, no “serious” establishment
politicos would dare suggest that reinforcing equal justice,
democracy, a healthy environment, education, health care,….
and a reduction of military involvement
might actually be the intelligent way to remedy the horror.
No, the deviants needs more atrocities because they are making
money out of all of the horror while they also
reinforce religious BS.
As Hobbes pointed out in Leviathan, once the power takes over the only outcome is collapse after expansion is exhausted. I feel that expansion has just about run it’s course. Unless the leadership changes course, which I believe is a pipe dream.
So true!! you can see the end of the tunnel and its not going to be pretty– its not pretty now, imagine then.
We better build a wall here on the Canadian border ; )
Hillary goes full zio. What a surprise. Next up: unconditional support for Saudi. And lots of shiny new arms sales.
Hillary has ALREADY pushed for MORE ARMS to the Saudis
She’s a neocon hawk. So obvious.
She’ll say anything to get into power and then it’s business as usual for the military-industrial complex.
Conducting another experiment to see if my comment will appear.
“Liti,” huh?
For some reason that’s got me seeing this scene in my head from the beginning of the movie Trading Places. Eddie Murphy (Billy Ray Valentine) has just been handcuffed, after being wrongly accused of trying to steal the Duke & Duke payroll, and asks of the room, “Is there a lawyer here?” Everyone not a cop quickly just looks down or away.
Damn this is dumb. Hillary is a Democrat, and Netanyahu is a Republican. Nothing good can come out of trying to reach out to him. She needs to reach out to Israeli Democrats, just as the Republicans arranged to let Netanyahu give his little pre-election speech in the U.S. to avoid stupid campaigning restrictions in Israel. Israel had a Democrat in office, trying to make peace with the Palestinians… until one of their right-wingers shot him and earned his side two decades of rule.
So what if she’s a Democrat? Her policy views are basically right-wing, from military intervention to Wall Street to trade. Pandering on easy cultural issues doesn’t really count.
http://www.alternet.org/world/i-would-see-gaza-drown-sea-remembering-true-yitzhak-rabin-20-years-after-his-assassination-0
Difficult as it may be, you need to embrace the reality that there is no fundamental difference between the neoliberalism of Hillary Clinton and the neoconservatism of George W. Bush. This article only reinforces what has already appeared on this site and elsewhere for at least a year now, that Clinton is going to support whatever the most extreme among the Zionists undertake or advocate, and that her preferred method of foreign policy implementation is with military force.
What is less obvious is that Bernie Sanders is little different when it comes to policy in the Middle East. He has consistently supported the actions of the Israeli government, no matter how outrageous they are. The litmus test for being pro-Israel is not merely support for the existence of a Jewish state, but rather blanket approval for whatever that state does. If you do not believe me, just ask Bibi.
It is also true that both the democrat and republican wings of the Party wholly and unquestioningly support the positions of the likes of Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz. They are so terrified about the prospect of losing financial support from people like Sheldon Adelson that they consistently provide not only a shield but active support for Israeli aggression. As both wings of the Party agree, voters cannot threaten to withhold their votes from one wing or the other; the only thing that can be effective is to support neither.
I think in this video, from before Sanders had announced he was running, he describes his thinking with regards to whether to run as an independent, be ignored by the media, have to fight to get on the ballot….vs …running as a Democrat, taking advantage of the rigged system. (which is in fact what he chose to do)
He also hints at his middle east thinking, ex: the billionaire Saudis should do their share.
An Economic Agenda for America: A Conversation with Bernie Sanders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvYjMJrF2hQ
This is a test to see if I can comment here, as I’ve been experiencing technical difficulties.
“Clinton will be good for Israel-U.S. relations”, billionaire Haim Saban says at Tel Aviv event. He’s her money. The irony is, at her last debate with Sanders, she looked ‘hurt’ when he suggested she could be influenced by campaign contributions. This relationship should be exposed. He runs AIPAC and he is the key to her view of FP. Good article. Appreciate the work you do for all of us.
Why is she doing this…. ? Simple: to win her NEW YORK Senator’s seat she had to make a milluin promises to a million BILLIONAIRES in New York City who are sworn to the safety and economic onterests of Israel. There is no problem in being supporters of Israel,,,, BUT NOT at the expense of US INYETESTS. Hillary will sell out her own family and her own country for the Presidency and we are seeing that take place every time she opens her entitled mouth.
Why does Clinton do this? Proclaim eternal loyalty to a foreign government? I’d say she is competing for the same billionaire dollars as the republicans. I don’t think Clinton supporters would dispute that. As for Sanders supporters, their giving, what? 30 dollar donations, they don’t see how the US government giving their tax money to weapons manufacturers, who then in turn send weapons to Israel, makes the lives of ordinary Americans any better. So that is one reason Sanders doesn’t focus on Israel. But rather on policies that would positively affect regular Americans…paid maternity leave, raising the minimum wage, universal healthcare, lower tuition costs etc.
But there are other factors. I guess for me, it’s patently obvious that whatever Sanders wants to do vis a vis Israel, it can’t be worse than what Obama, Clinton and the Republicans have been doing. And Sanders is Jewish, so that makes anti-Semetic accusations against him, if not impossible, then difficult, so whereas some other hypothetical candidate would have to defend on that front, Sanders doesn’t.
Sorry to disagree, but the fact that he is Jewish does not shield Sanders from accusations of anti-Semi
tism. There are even established terms for it; the English expression is “self-hating” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hating_Jew). Noam Chomsky is often accused of being anti-Semitic because of his criticism of Israeli aggression and human rights violations.
The reason why Sanders has not been subject to such criticism is that he has been fully supportive of the Zionist agenda.
First of all, don’t be sorry. I’m all about arguing with people who bring honest supported ideas.
You think Sanders is fully supportive of the zionist agenda? I don’t see that as a stumbling block. Many Jews have moved to Israel, identify with it, are protective of it. I don’t have a problem with that. I guess where I draw the line is where one person’s national narrative, bumps into another person’s. If the steps you take to make your dream real….entail violating your own dream and universally held precepts….human rights, justice, democracy….then it’s not, me that’s not being supportive of zionism, it’s zionists, destroying their own movement.
I have the imagination to see a future Israel/Palestine entity that could hold both protections for the Jewish religion and culture as well as Palestinian Arab culture.
Just as I can easily imagine a South African idiot, before the end of Apartheid, telling me that Blacks and Whites could never share a state, could never serve in the same army, could never mingle together.
…Just as I can easily imagine a future US president, being fully supportive of a future Israel/Palestine, where there is equality of ethnicities, religious, cultural protections, and shared political institutions.
But as Supportive as Sanders may be, I can’t blame him for focusing his attention on the real concerns or people in his own country. And I can’t help but feel that by improving the lives of Americans, by shifting the attention away from foreign wars, towards raising the living standards of his citizens. he would be indirectly setting a good example for other countries which up till now, have been in the austerity, financial fraud, globalization, eternal war on Muslims…death spiral. And that will be good for Israelis as well, to finally end their reliance on a US supported apartheid system.
I guess Clinton would say, ending Israeli apartheid is “not pragmatic” but pretending that Jim Crow, or apartheid or any other form of massive racist discrimination is sustainable, I believe that is what is not pragmatic.
i would take the clintons at their word on this…they will make sure the israeli palestinian conflict is inflamed its a money making machine for wallstree
nothing like endless winless wars to drive the profit motive of fear and hate
wallstreets version of bread and butter
“If you were a pro-Clinton progressive, would you want to defend her continuous vows to “strengthen” U.S. support for the Netanyahu government and ensure that every year “we must tie the bonds tighter”?”
I am not, but if I was then the answer would be yes. Why? Because Clinton states clearly what her foreign policy would be if elected. Sanders does not. Do your job as a journalist. Take a break from your anti Clinton propaganda and start scrutinize Sanders. Would Sanders stop or reduce military aids to Israel? About weapons sales to human rights violators?
Pretend, for however long it might take you to write your pretend article, that you are not only a “pro-Clinton progressive” but also a ‘journalist’ of some sort.
Now, will you please post your “pro-Clinton progressive” article defending Clinton’s ‘continuous vows to “strengthen” U.S. support for the Netanyahu government and ensure that every year “we must tie the bonds tighter”?”
Another idiot.
It does not matter whether I am a hardcore Clinton supporter, a Zionist, a racist, a Skinhead, a priest, an Islamist…It does not change the fact that the Earth is not flat or the fact that a rational voter should choose a candidate that clearly specifies his/her policies versus a candidate who keeps voters in the dark. Obviously, as an imbecile it never happens to your damaged brain that your cult leader Greenwald does not scrutinize the proposed foreign policy of the possible new commander in chief (Sanders).
Let’s see how stupid you are. Is it irrational for a journalist to wonder what would be the status of military support to Israel if Sanders becomes commander in chief? Clinton already answered that question. What about Sanders?
Greenwald linked to two articles which were critical of Sanders on Israel and Gaza and summarized Sanders accurately. Sanders is also pro- Israel, but not to anywhere near the degree Clinton is.
None of the articles specify what Sanders would do about the relationship between USA and Israel. There is absolutely no clarifications on how Sanders intend to approach that conflict.
“Sanders is also pro- Israel, but not to anywhere near the degree Clinton is.”
Based on what? Because he criticized Israel? I can give you numerous examples of Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, or even Georges Bush criticizing Israel. The questions are very simple: have Sanders proposed his policies towards Israel? And
How Sanders policy towards Israel would be different from Clinton?
Sanders has not only commentary on Israel in his record, he has votes. (And his commentary is less extreme than anything Bill, Hill or W have said.) In any event, you seem to have missed this paragraph in Glenn’s column, my emphasis:
So Glenn is hardly ignoring Sanders’ semi-opacity on this topic. Indeed, he’s noted it before.
“Sanders has not only commentary on Israel in his record, he has votes”
I remember your reaction when Doug provided a snapshot of Sanders records.
“So Glenn is hardly ignoring Sanders’ semi-opacity on this topic. Indeed, he’s noted it before.”
Then the candidate, the public official need to be scrutinized. Isn’t it a journalist’s job according to Greenwald?
Wrong, again. What Doug repeatedly provided was a list of votes with copious, false editorial comments.
Absolutely. Right now he’s busy scrutinizing Hillary Clinton, as he has been doing for many, many years. You see, the establishment media is aboard Team Hillary, so Glenn and The Intercept are doing what it won’t.
1) What the establishment media is doing is completely irrelevant to whether Greenwald should abide by his own principles.
2) Would you consider Fox News part of the esblishment media? Would you consider Fox News part of the Team Clinton?
About CNN? Would you classify these questions as those coming from Team Hillary: CNN to Hillary Clinton
Would you say anything to get elected?
Do you change your political identity based on whom you are talking to?
Was it a mistake to get paid that much by Goldman Sachs for speeches?
How do you respond to those who believe you represent the interests of Wall Street?
TI is not different from what they call establishment media. The others become establishment media when they take a position they disagree with.
Oh no, what the establishment media does is the linchpin of his journalistic principles.
It’s not for nothing that he won the Izzy Award back in ’09. Izzy Stone dug for and published the truth the mainstream media of his time didn’t care to find. Ditto Glenn. The truth the MSM barely touches, including Fox, who slams HRCfor largely stupid reasons, not the reasons reasonable people should and do.
[giggle] You just cannot help yourself, can you?
“I can give you numerous examples of Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, or even Georges Bush criticizing Israel. ”
Please do.
You lost every ounce of credibility when you decided to go on a personal attack rather than debate the topic and claims you made. It is the proof you have nothing substantive to back up your argument and you’re only capable of bullying the opposing opinion.
I’m going to guess that whatever group you write for is one most Intercept readers avoid. Aggression like yours is of no value. Voters should choose a candidate that clearly states their policies, and is consistent from one crowd to the next. There’s only one person running on the Democratic side who hasn’t had to change their position to compete, and it’s not Clinton.
“Voters should choose a candidate that clearly states their policies, and is consistent from one crowd to the next. There’s only one person running on the Democratic side who hasn’t had to change their position to compete, and it’s not Clinton.”
So, make me look stupid by providing Sanders proposed policies towards Israel. I know Clinton’s. She said it many times and Greenwald reported it again in his anti Clinton article.
Your task is very easy. Prove everybody I have no credibility, I am stupid by providing Sanders proposed policies towards Israel.
If you cannot perform that simple task, then there is nothing personal about calling your comment worthless.
It’s not a matter or “making you look stupid.” As Dandy Lyon put it, you lack credibility in your method of “discussion.” Indeed, you cannot even admit it when you are demonstrated to be utterly wrong in one of your claims.
Reasonable, intelligent people conclude you are a bad faith interlocutor.
Claim 1: you, Greenwald, or anybody can go to France and say whatever they want about Israel.
Mona: Claim 1 is false. It is illegal to wear a T shirt stating “Boycott Israel” in France.
Response: Claim 1 is not false. The ruling against BDS does not prevent anybody from taking a personal position against Israel. Show me part of the ruling that states otherwise. The ruling is about BDS as an organization that proceeds in a way that can only result in discrimination against Israeli producers. That is illegal under the French penal code.
Mona: you are wrong because press reports about the arrest of the militants. You are wrong because an opinion about the court decision.
Response: A press report about the arrest and an opinion about a court decision do not constitute the reasoning behind the court decision. Read the court ruling, the reasoning behind the ruling and tell me what part of that decision that even suggest your personal opinion towards Israel and your personal decision vis a vis Israeli products would be illegal.
Mona: I prove you wrong because press report about the arrest and an opinion about the court.
Response: You are an idiot.
See? You are doing it again. I linked to and quoted a French magistrate writing in English, and thus accessible to all readers. Not a “press report.” (Why I or anyone should take your claims about French law over a French magistrate is a true mystery you’ve left unexplained.)
You are wrong about what is legal in France. Wrong. You just keep retreating to ever-more ludicrous arguments to defend your error, heavily slated with personal insults. This is a good example of why you lack credibility.
You sent
1) A report about what happened in France when the militants got arrested
2) An opinion from a magistrate about the ruling.
I sent you:
The official website of France highest court that has all their decisions. I told you not to take my words for it, read the ruling yourself and show me what part of it that would make it illegal for me or any other individual to personally show their love or their despise of Israeli policies.
The report about what happened and the magistrate’s opinion have nothing to do with my point that the court did not get involve in an individual personal choice to love or despise Israeli products. You have not read the ruling but in your narrow minded world you proved me wrong.
Don’t be daft. Laypeople — which I am vis-a-vis French judicial holdings, and I’ll bet you are as well — are not competent to interpret them. A French magistrate, however, is highly qualified to do that.
This discussion is past the point of fruitfulness. On this issue I shall henceforth simply link to the magistrate’s words as well as to your inane claims on the issues vis-a-vis Greenwald’s last column. Greenwald, unsurprisingly, takes the position of the French magistrate, because it is accurate. He declines to accept the shit-arguments of some guy on the Internet — that would be you.
That was not a discussion. I was just demonstrating how stupid you are. A brain damaged lawyer who cannot even read a court ruling.
You are an ignorant layman re: French court rulings.
Claim 2 Mona: I am intellectually sophisticated and I say that young Arabs in France are deeply oppressed.
Response: Your claim is false.Young Arabs in France have the right to vote, the right to challenge their leaders through elections, demonstrations, strikes. Young Arabs in France have legal protection against discrimination and legal protection through hate speech laws that do not exist in America and that you oppose. Young Arabs in France have access to low cost education and low cost universal healthcare described as one of the best by WHO and that does exist in America. Since there are no societies where there are no racism, no violence against minority groups, no economic problems that usually affect minority groups, then you obviously do not understand what oppression means.
Mona: Intelligent people conclude you are a bad faith interlocutor.
Uh-huh.
Well, if I had any doubt about you being a troll for HRC and Zion, it’s gone now.
I’ll take that as the only way it could be read: you’re incapable and unwilling to take the challenge offered, and so went on a tangent of nonsensical hand waving rant of unrelated horse shit, hoping to cover your cowardice. Quite unimpressive, but also quite transparent.
As “CraigSummers” might say:
Thank you for your reply.
And as usual I take your answer as proof that you are a brain damaged idiot.
Youre a real creep, whoever you are.
Rania Khalek has written a piece that explores Sanders’ position on Israel-Palestine.
Rania Khalek is not running for office. Sanders needs to clarify his position himself.
That’d be a good idea. But whatever it is, it would be impossible to be worse than Hillary’s.
We have not scratched the surface of her corruption and unsuitability for POTUS.Propaganda is BS.
Amazing how the standard neo position is to cast America as Israel’s gimp.
How is it that this has endured for so long ?
Where is America’s thirst for justice ?
There is absolutely no limit to Hillary Clinton’s infatuation and devotion to the Corporate takeover of America and the world. She is the leader of the War Party and a Zionist wannabe. Her coronation isn’t turning out as expected but her possible victory in the primaries seals the deal to elect Trump.
Hillary “more wars” Clinton for President!
Clinton will be good for Israel-U.S. relations, billionaire Haim Saban says at Tel Aviv event.
Billionaire Israelis for Clinton !
He is also an American and an alleged Mossad agent. See Jane Harmon incident.
Big Clinton funder.