AN EGYPTIAN STUDENT in California has been detained by immigration authorities and is facing deportation after he posted a hostile comment on Facebook against Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.
In early February, Emad Elsayed posted a photo of Trump on Facebook and wrote a post to the effect of, “If I killed this guy I wouldn’t mind serving a life sentence and the world would thank me,” according to his attorney, Hani Bushra, who saw the post in a court hearing yesterday, when it was introduced into evidence by government lawyers.
Elsayed traveled from Cairo to the United States on a student visa in mid-September to attend flight-training school at Universal Air Academy in Los Angeles, according to his sister, Ohoud, who lives in Egypt. Photos on the 23-year-old’s Facebook page show him variously in a cockpit or smiling in sunglasses in front of the Hollywood sign.
Elsayed’s threatening post, and subsequent detention, come amid a divisive election campaign, with Trump engaging in anti-Muslim and anti-Arab rhetoric, including calling for a ban on Muslims from entering the United States, fondly repeating a myth about a U.S. general executing Muslim prisoners in the Philippines with bullets dipped in pig’s blood, refusing to rule out creating a database of American Muslims, and falsely claiming that Arabs in New Jersey were cheering as the World Trade Center came down on 9/11.
According to a document filed by the government for an immigration hearing yesterday, it was the owner of the flight school, Alex Khatib, who tipped off the FBI about the post on February 3. The FBI then forwarded the information to the Joint Terrorism Task Force, the State Department, and the Secret Service.
According to Bushra, on February 4 — two or three days after Elsayed posted on Facebook — two Secret Service agents came to the flight school and questioned Elsayed for two hours, asking about his background and whether he was associated with any terror groups. After they left, Elsayed deleted the post. The document filed by the government confirms that “Secret Service agents interviewed Elsayed regarding the threat.”
Khatib, the owner of Universal Air Academy, was also contacted by the same Secret Service agents, according to a statement by Khatib that was submitted to the court. Both Khatib and the Secret Service declined to comment when contacted by The Intercept.
On February 5, the agents came to Elsayed’s home and searched through his belongings, his car, and his laptop, Bushra said. Nearly a week later, on February 11, the agents visited Khatib at the flight school. “They told me that the State Department revoked Mr. Elsayed’s M-1 visa and that it was better for Mr. Elsayed to leave the country,” Khatib wrote in his signed statement. The M-1 visa is a type of student visa reserved for vocational schools. “They told me that there were no criminal charges to be filed against Mr. Elsayed, and that the only thing that is left is to terminate his I-20. Based on their information and their suggestion, I terminated the I-20 of Mr. Elsayed.”
The I-20 is issued by schools certified by the Student and Exchange Visitor Program at Immigration and Customs Enforcement. When Elsayed’s I-20 was terminated by Universal Air Academy, he lost his student visa status.
The next day, according to Khatib’s statement, he contacted Elsayed at the behest of the Secret Service agents and asked him to come to the school. When Elsayed arrived, immigration officials accompanying the Secret Service agents promptly arrested him.
“Mr. Elsayed was taken into custody Feb. 12 by officers with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) for allegedly violating the terms of his admission to the United States,” said Virginia Kice, an ICE spokesperson, in an emailed statement. “ICE placed Mr. Elsayed in removal proceedings and it will now be up to immigration courts … to determine whether he has a legal basis to remain in the U.S.”
Bushra, who specializes in immigration cases, argues that the government’s successful effort to revoke Elsayed’s student visa is akin to “thuggery.”
“I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said. “Immigration has been used as a way to punish him and get him out of the country after the U.S. attorney’s office — which is the highest judicial arm of the executive branch — declined to prosecute this case and bring it to court.”
At the hearing, the immigration judge found that Elsayed should be removed from the country unless he manages to get a reinstatement of his student visa status, according to Bushra. Khatib, the school owner, claimed in his statement that he would be willing to issue Elsayed a new I-20 to allow him to complete his course at the school. However, the process of getting a reinstatement could take up to five months and most of that time would likely be spent in detention. At the hearing, the judge denied bond after the government introduced into evidence the now-deleted Facebook post and argued that Elsayed is a danger to the community, Bushra said.
The next court session is scheduled for March 4, when Bushra will try to work out a deal to have Elsayed released in exchange for letting him get his affairs in order and leave the country. “He is devastated,” Bushra said. “He feels it is unfair and that he is not taken at his word that he didn’t mean any of this. He doesn’t understand why this is happening.”
He came on a student visa that has been rescinded by the school he was attending. The school wants nothing to do with him. Is he that toxic? Whats the problem? He has no right to free speech in the USA since he is a foreigner. So whats the problem? Kick him in the head, then kick him out.
While resources and energy are spent on this guy real murderers are going about their business.
Freedom of speech, human rights & democracy are all things this government has clue of!! Yet they go around the world preaching about these simple things they obviously do not follow themselves. The GOP’$ gestapo/ss acted really quick against that student. I now wonder if one day america will regret ever having someone like trump even thinking about being president..?
President Obama has been threatened. …..ummm, what happened to those people. ……and he’s the president
What the utter fuck!
I understand that the institution reserves the right to revoke his I-20 visa, and they are probably in a precarious position, owing to pressure from the authorities, but even then, is that facebook post reasonable grounds for such an action being taken against this boy?
Yes. Visa revocation is a reasonable for those making terroristic threats.
excuse me: hasn’t Trump and Cruze and others advocated wholesale violence and mass genocide? doesn’t this occur on an ongoing basis? doesn’t it seem logical, in terms of cause and effect, that people in/from the middle east just might take exception to that??
No excuses for you. No, neither Trump not Cruz have advocated that. If it does occur, it has nothing to do with this story. No it doesn’t seem logical.
Saying a lie in print does not make it true….it only makes you look like an ass clown.
Read it again it was not a threat, he wrote: “IF I killed this guy” he did not write “I WILL kill this guy” there is a world of difference.
And all the while Trump and his fellow candidates wax lyrical about the torture they will commit and the people they will kill. Torture is still illegal as is extrajudicial killing and yet not a word from anyone. No one is hauling them off for declaring (declaring is far more than just a threat) that they will commit crimes.
Making terroristic threats: That ain’t the way it works.
Fine nuances of meaning. No one believes you. Deport!
This is happening because he made a threat to kill someone. Come on people, no matter what Trump said, This man made a personal threat to kill him. you come to our country , act like a civil human being. he should be on a plan back to Egypt already, And I am married to an Egyptian man, so I am not being mean because he is Egyptian.
He is honest…. I don’t see a threat….
I wonder if Mr. Elsayed can obtain compensation from Mr. Khatib’s company for terminating that I-20 for no discernible reason.
It’s kind of iron seeing that Trump has made a platform out of saying he will kill the innocent children and wives of possible terrorists.
*Ironic
Donald Trump is a U.S. citizen and cannot be deported.
This young 23 year old man is not a U.S. citizen. He held an M-l visa, allowing him to temporarily come to the United States to pursue vocational studies. Visas come with strict requirements and the young man violated the requirements. The vocational school made decision to terminate his I-20 document certifying he held student status.
It appears FBI and Secret Service interview with young man was followed up by Joint Terrorism Task Force regarding any association with terrorist group. Sadly, a young fully unformed mind made a terrible decision that subjected him to deportation. I support Hillary Clinton, but please quit attacking Donald Trump on this issue because it takes away from the substantive.
Thank you again, President Barak Obama, for protecting all citizens of the country you love so much, the United States of America.
What specific visa requirement would his joke on his facebook account violate exactly?
The school revoked his I-20 at the FBI’s suggestion, after being told the FBI had already terminated his M-1 visa, so while they did make that decision, it was with misleading information. The article also said the owner of the school was happy to re-issue the I-20, presumably in light of the fact that this was all over a facebook post and that this is the sort of shit North Korea would be lambasted over for months if it happened there to an American student criticizing Kim Jong-un.
Facebook: anything you say can and will be used against you. Makes you think twice about posting there.
Screw him. He made public an implicit threat against the Republican front-runner for the nomination to the election of POTUS. He’s lucky he’s just likely to be kicked out of the country.
“He made public an implicit threat . . .”
Oooh! An implicit threat.
Surely, that must be illegal, huh? ;^)
Correct. This is a no brainer. A foreigner has no right to protest using rights of free speech in the USA. That is for USA citizens, not him.
What is truly disappointing is that our Secret Service agency has become Donald Trump’s hired thugs. Tossing PEACEFUL black students out of their own college’s theater while Trump spoke, removing anyone that publicly disagrees with Trump, etc etc.
My tax dollars at work .. against me.
Thats not true. Protesters can stand outside on public property and shout all they like, but a political rally is not on public property and those BLM were not invited in order to disturb others event. And just because you disagree with those facts does not gain you any credibility.
Hey, I have a thought: Don’t post about the intent or thought of killing someone online.
Maybe, just maybe, that would resolve the issue.
So a political candidate can talk explicitly to millions on network television about killing and torturing countless people, but a regular citizen shouldn’t express even jokingly on a personal social media account any discontent? I think Kim Jong probably thought that was a good policy for resolving all issues too. But with opinions like yours maybe Elsayed will get what he deserved – a one way ticket out a dangerously stupid police state.
Dont exaggerate. Its pathetic.
Oh yeah but if I, a white woman, posted that then my friends and family would have laughed and I would have gotten comments like “good riddance.” This country is hypocritical, disgusting, and looking for any reason to push Arabs out. Fucking bigots who cares if his Egyptian? He didn’t make a direct threat, it was a hypothetical statement, this racist government is doing a hell of a job to show how it’s ruled by big corporations and the 1%.
Well, Muslims certainly are prone to violence.
Yeah, because a country with 30,000+ gun deaths per yr and a 20+ yr history that includes the death of over 1 million people in other countries isn’t
1930’s Germany and somebody expresses similar sentiments. Do we cheer or do we jeer?
I think most people would support a person targeted by Hitler attempting to kill him
Your analogy is bent. Hitler was responsible for murder. Trump is not. Not close. Not by a million miles. Your dreamy Godwin analogies are both trite and ignorant.
Has it occured to anyone that the powers that be are allowing Trump to spew hate expecting a backlash? It is hard to stay silent in the face of this moron but, when it happens, especially among “non-white” Americans, a crackdown can be justified on the grounds of national security.
This young Arab boy is lucky to get out of this with his head still fixed to his body. Now if this was in Saudi Arabia he might not have been so lucky.
Sounds as though you might fit better in Saudi Arabia, where there’s no 1st Amendment to interfere with your fantasies.
1st point – almost no where else in the world can a citizen say anything he wants, and be protected like we Americans are by the 1st Amendment.
2nd point – make a threat similar to this kid, but direct it to Obama, and it is quite likely you will get a visit from the feds. Despite your protection as an American under the 1st Amendment.
3rd point – the 1st Amendment applies only to American citizens. Period.
Read the Constitution, Doug. Basic civics is a good thing to know if you want to attempt to judge someone’s opinion, like Anwar’s, and avoid showing your strong opinion backed by weak understanding.
From prior reading, I think Dong Satzman is a lawyer, and even as a non-lawyer, I’m aware that the Supreme Court has ruled hat the US Constitution does not apply only to US citizens but to any person within any US state, federal district, territoiry,, commonwealth, military base, embassy or any other location under US jurisidiction.
Your desire to have ti apply only to US citizens is , at best, only wihsful thinking an, most likely, willful ignorance.
“1st point – almost no where else in the world can a citizen say anything he wants, and be protected like we Americans are by the 1st Amendment.”
If I said exactly what he said about someone running for president on my country, this would not have happen. Neither to me nor a foreigner. But you know what? I live in a democratic country, not in the US.
Perfect
I don’t believe free speech rights were ever intended to allow people to threaten to kill other people with impunity. However, the legal interpretation of what constitutes a “true” threat of violence is highly context-dependent. Specifically:
http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-01/43-threats-of-violence.html
“In Watts v. United States, however, the Court held that only “true” threats are outside the First Amendment. The defendant in Watts, at a public rally at which he was expressing his opposition to the military draft, said, “If they ever make me carry a rifle, the first man I want to get in my sights is L.B.J.” He was convicted of violating a federal statute that prohibited “any threat to take the life of or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States.” The Supreme Court reversed. Interpreting the statute “with the commands of the First Amendment clearly in mind,” it found that the defendant had not made a “true threat,” but had indulged in mere “political hyperbole.”
So, was El Sayed merely engaging in “political hyperbole?”
In another cited case, involving anti-abortion activists who placed posters “with the names, photographs, addresses, and other personal information about abortion doctors, three of whom were subsequently murdered by abortion opponents,” courts upheld this exception to free speech as a deliberate, specific threat that the doctors would be shot or killed.
Now, in the article above, the client’s attorney’s interpretation of the threat – “to the effect of” – is quoted – but what did the post actually say? Some other web sites report that he said:
“I am willing to kill Donald Trump and serve a life sentence. The whole world would thank me for doing that.” – which is a bit less of a hypothetical, than “If I killed this guy. . .”
http://egyptianstreets.com/2016/03/02/egyptian-student-who-threatened-trump-on-facebook-to-be-deported/
In addition, the flight school aspect of the case would naturally raise multiple alarms in federal agencies in the post-9/11 era, rather understandably I think, after they ignored so many warnings about 9/11 hijackers at flight schools.
All in all, it’s hard to defend such woefully stupid behavior, no matter how you look at it, but the method used – pressuring the flight school to terminate the student’s enrollment and then using his lack of valid enrollment in a school as the reason to deport him, does seem a bit back door – it was probably some deal-of-convenience by the U.S. attorney.
Someone joking about killing or rejoicing about the death of a person makes me uncomfortable and shouldn’t be in charge.
This applies to:
– This idiot aspiring pilot
– Hillary Clinton
– Donald Trump
Sounds like the system is working just as it is supposed to. Say stupid shit on a public form = consequences. Bye. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
So the government should police the Internet and inflict “consequences” on people who say “stupid shit”. That’s how you think “the system” should work.
I’m speechless.
Is facebook a public forum? It’s privately owned, and you have to agree to the sites owners terms to use it, and you have to sign up to even view the site. How is that public? And if it is, then most of the internet has to be as well. Can you be charged for any stupid thing ever said online? Comedians have said worse, so if this was a threat shall we be making sure they face consequences too? If this is the system working as intended it’s sure as hell making so many exceptions it could hardly be called a system let alone a working one.
Into that awkward Venn between stupidity and paranoia did the young man trip and disappear #unfriend
You came just to take lessons in USA for a few months, why he complicated his life, he is stupid, let the Americans deal with their political issues, after all you are just a guest in their country.
The fact that Trump is a dick with a loud mouth ignorant fool shouldn’t be an excuse to act like one yourself. If you go on social media and make stupid statements like this you should be prepared to take the consequences that comes with it. Especially if you’re a guest in that country.
Edit: The fact that Trump is a dick and a loud mouth ignorant fool shouldn’t be an excuse to act like one yourself.
Edit: If you go to a xenophobic police state with a long history of carrying out torture and war crimes you should be prepared to face the erratic and questionably legal consequences that comes with it. Especially if you’re not white.
Kick the bastard off !!!
Ted Nugent is still walking free after threatening the president.
Trump has incited people to violence on film.
Loofahboy O’lyly incited his audience to kill Dr. Tiller.
This young man made a snide sarcastic comment on facebook.
If a U.S. citizen made a remark like this as a guest/student in a foreign country they would be subjected to the same treatment. Think about it.
This has nothing to do with any foreign country.
Damn Right!
Other countries don’t have free speech rights, so we shouldn’t either!
We do have free speech in the UK and so do most of Scandinavian Europe. I think the USA is becoming a fascist state just like Turkey. There is no freedom of any kind in the USA any more and soon people will be locked up because they are poor, sick and unemployed. Just look at the way the police have started to behave and its only the thin edge of the wedge. Unbelievably denial is rife in America as it always was.
Becoming?
“Germany lost the second world war, fascism won” – George Carlin
The UK isn’t any more or less fascist, think about that.
Deport him! Is this how you would act if someone invited you to their house? Free speech my ass! Didn’t the guys who flew planes into the trade center learn to fly here? I’m glad they are setting an example of him, it’s about time!
Ignoring the moral and political issues here, it’s not smart to make violent threats unless you are willing to face prison, death, or in cases like this, deportation. It’s like the Palestinians throwing rocks at Israeli tanks; it feels good but it can get you killed. Of course if you’re willing to pay the price as a martyr, then by all means go ahead.
I agree. The Palestinians should stop throwing rocks at Israeli tanks and use RPG-29s and FGM-148 Javelins instead.
What about guys like Mike Grim on Facebook that call for the death of the president and black lives, and it’s even posted on his companys page in reviews? But he is white…
I think the issue is citizenship. He’s not a citizen so he can be deported if the government feels he’s a threat to national security. But I’m sure his ethnicity is a factor in this decision. He’s also enrolled in flight school which doesn’t help his cause at all. You may recall an incident on American soil perpetrated by 19 Saudis who were also enrolled in American flight schools.
well said Jann angevine “””But it is ok for a Presidential candidate to say, “I could walk out on 5th Ave and shoot someone, and my followers would still support me”, or “I would carpet-bomb them into oblivion”, or “I would kill the families of terrorists”? This kind of language has become the operational language of even our political class. Though I deplore it, it is now the norm. Deport Trump, he is much more threatening than some ineffectual, impassioned student in Cali.:”””””
………They are deporting people for FREE SPEECH ant this is the epitome of worst than all t he kosher hitlerianism. kosher stalinism, kosher bolchevism, kosher pinochetism kosher satanjewhoo regimes combined. Disgusting is short
Trump is a citizen. Stuff like this use to be ignored but we are in some pc times and a Canadian guy got in trouble for OFFENDING a girl on SM. I don’t even think he swore but her feelings were hurt.
the hypocrisy of AMERIKKKA is dumbfounding, warmongering from the most lethal and disgusting country that supports regimes that goes around the globe interfering in private affairs, spies on “allied countries” has no respect for the rest of the world, that invades countries and destroy the planet Oh my God! this is insane, and all the haters that follow that fascist piece of shit? 4% of voters!
The thing is, any threat against a president or a presidential candidate is taken very seriously. Maybe people who are researching should research that in particular. He is lucky this is all that will happen to him. If he were a U.S. citizen, I think he would be charged with a crime and prosecuted, without regard to race, gender, or any other specialty group. It just doesn’t matter. Getting deported back to his home is actually special treatment in this case.
I thought America was freedom of speech country!!! Obviously its been taken out of context. I say stuff like this every day. I’m gonna kill that MF etc. People in my life who I don’t get along or like. Plus Trump is an Idiot anyways. Lie after lie. Almost everything he touches or labels Trump fails and then he backtracks and lies again. I’m not American I’m Scottish so my view on politics isn’t optimistic. England rule Scotland. Basically like Canada telling every American what to do. Plus America rules/forces the world into it’s own personal money gain. But back to the point. Trump is an Idiot. And if you vote for him and believe a word he says. You are a blind sheep.
This basically sums Trump up !!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
I have to add, that threatening candidates makes one at the very least an unwitting enemy of democracy, since the actuality short circuits the democratic process and deprives voters of their choices for self-government. That is a tyrannical power to arrogate to oneself, and completely wrongheaded, even stated as an attempt at humor. It’s too bad this young man couldn’t be explained the lesson in democracy and take it to heart, without his life being destroyed by his ignorance. He does come from Egypt, where they think about the matter of political violence differently – and which, unfortunately our same State Department has sometimes at least looked the other way, which makes the needed education all the more difficult.
It was extremely poor judgement on the student’s part. It’s likely that it was just hyperbole, but we do have a sad history of prominent figures being assassinated by supposed lone gunmen, foreign and domestic. After our experience of those who took flight training 15 years ago, I’m not surprised that a flight school administrator with an ethnic name would become paranoid and be extremely willing to cooperate with the Secret Service in revoking the I-20 without which the student is compelled to leave the country. It’s too bad that an apology and repentance are no longer sufficient in the climate of fear engendered by terrorism and the blowback from foreign military actions. I do note that Senator Lindsay Graham made similar remarks about his colleague, Senator Cruz, but is unlikely to be deported back to South Carolina. Personally I’d like to see a lot less talk about killing anyone, and especially a whole lot less killing. As Mark Twain quipped, “It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them.”
The students taking flight training were under FBI guidance.
Since when can you threaten a person’s life, a leading presidential candidate no less, and there is no charges against him?
The GOP is consistent, trotting out yet another fascist blowhard, ever eager to show off his cowardice and blood-lust, knowing exactly what makes a patriot drool.
Good thing the Dems have one of their own, this one female. American women should be just as proud as the men. Torture-love, mass murder, and failed-state creation is gender and race blind in the USA! USA! USA!
I’m an American woman who has long looked forward to a woman president, but not just any woman. HRC is a warmonger and not the right woman. It’s been said that she’s never seen a war she didn’t like. I’m sickened by the thought of a Trump win, but ultimately terrified at the thought of her becoming Commander in Chief.
No one sees the ironies of future pilot added to The No-Fly list.
Really clueless comments guys for not seeing the obvious!
ever hear of sirhan sirhan, he took away Robert Kennedy when he was about to be the democratic nominee. we have no room for that kind of threat these days. If he didnt carry out his threat on Trump he probably would have done something bad with his flight training. He needs to go and never come back.
it wasn’t any more relevant the first time you brought up the deranged patsy.
What Mr. Elsayed posted on facebook was not a threat, it was a hypothetical statement, and you have no reason to think he was going to do anything bad at all, except that you’re a brainwashed reactionary.
lol fascists get all uppity about their precious Satanic overlords being threatened.
Sharif Abdel Kouddous I respect your past work but this piece sucks.
This kid did something stupid and there were consequences for his actions. There are American kids getting arrested for less. Step up your game, brother.
‘There are American kids getting arrested for less.’
OF COURSE there are. Name them.
‘There are American kids getting murdered for less.’
I leave the painstaking research to you, Pete.
I linked to one below (Justin Carter) whose case is particularly outrageous.
That said, I don’t want everyone’s case to be like his – I want him and the others to be free from malicious prosecution.
The case of this Egyptian is more borderline because technically he was the paying guest of a flight school that decided to revoke his certificate and he got sent back. The same thing might have happened if the school had gone bankrupt, if he’d flunked the exam, or committed some indiscretion involving a solo flight that turned out to include a woman and an open bottle of champagne. In short, he didn’t have a “right” to stay in the U.S., and that was the vulnerability here; and if such discretionary vulnerability were ever to be exploited, surely extremists at the flight school would be where you’d start. But still… this smells, not so much for what it is but for what it is related to.
Me, just now.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=405663626270767&set=a.403571263146670.1073741828.100004813989553&type=3&theater
Please, tell us if your contacted by the feds
WTF are we training more terrorist to fly planes into buildings?
Roc, you need to stay under your bed. You’ll feel safe there. And don’t post anything else on teh interwebs. The terrerhists might find you.
I don’t know about him, but as for me, I’m not really worried about the miniscule probability of terrorists flying a plane into a building I happen to be in, but the large probability that if they hit a building anywhere, every police state opportunist scum in government will be lined up looking for another way to waste a few trillion killing innocent people, which ultimately means, YOU worry about getting laid off to “heal the economy”.
No, you ignorant fecking bigot.
Regardless that you agree with this bigoted statement, we have been conditioned. This was the first association that popped into my mind when I first read that he was training to become a pilot. But I know I don’t believe it to be true. I then thought to myself, this man wanted to obtain a skill. Maybe his goal is to become an airlines pilot. Good for him! Its great that he can travel the world to obtain his goals.
But my original association is due to a long-term agenda of propaganda that started before I was born. I feel that this propaganda was cemented in my mind when I was 11 and saw the horrid events of 9/11 and the aftermath of propaganda. It’s all psychological. The media is the medium for propaganda and conditioning. I suspect that many of the readers also had this same association. I’m sure many of the same knew this association to be bigoted and dismissed it, like I did.
This kind of reaction by the gov’t has been long in the making. You cannot pin this on one person/ president/ president-elect/ presidential nominee. It’s much easier to believe that one person or one group, one you see or hear of daily, is responsible for this action taken by our gov’t. It’s very easy to believe that a group with polarizing values will bring ruin to: our economy, our system of governance, or our social values.
They don’t want social unity. They want you to be emotionally driven and divided. Divide and conquer.
by the immigration judge’s argument, why then isn’t trump a danger to the community? He says things like, “i want to punch that guy in the face,” which is the equivalent in a way – a musing, not a threat.
And Trump goes further – kick them out he yells at his rallies, while people are physically bullied by his followers.
And now, in the latest incident, a veteran war photojournalist said he hasn’t felt so intimidated or unsafe as he did recently at a Trump rally he was covering when Trump turned his followers on him.
It’s amazing. the hypocrisy is incredible
And where is the honor of the Secret Service? Totally shot – the whole servie should be scrapped and reconstituted from scratch – it was done before, for similar reasons, it can be done again, in that once before a president scrapped security service and founded the secret service. Now the Secret Service sucks. If they are not facilitating Trump threats they are drunk and asleep on foreign trips – useless
ever hear of Sirhan sirhan? egyption who killed Robert kennedy. Figures you an obvious sniveling liberal would blame Trump for this. google Hillary confirmed lies see if she’s still who you want. bernie omg plz. Trump is the only one not bought and paid for. the only one talking about bringing back the jobs.
The honor of the Secret Service in this regard is a ship that sailed long ago — like back in the 90s when some hacker made an “exploding heads” website with a cute graphic (so I’m told) of Bob Dole’s head expanding and blowing up. The free press widely reported that his website was a shining example of the kind of free speech people have online. But when I tried to go to it it was down, and when I tried to contact him he said he was fired after the Secret Service grilled his employer. This is actually much less egregious.
NO FAIR – you have to let them get elected first…..remember the second (VP) will be in next. Who was it that had such a great VP he was actually a life insurance policy because no one wanted him to get the reigns…..Trump picks the wrong one and there might be a reward to get rid of him so the VP takes over……..
No such thing as free speech in the USA.
depending on the price $$$$$$$$$$$
He’s not a citizen. He’s not protected & has no right to threaten anyone in this country – especially politicians!
But you’re the exception, an American with the goddamn given right to threaten and kill anyone, anywhere, anytime, as long as you’re hiding behind your flag, right?
“He’s not a citizen. He’s not protected . . .”
Wrong. The Bill of Rights applies to everyone in the US, including visitors, and migrants (“legal” and “illegal”).
And the post in question clearly didn’t violate any laws (at least not any that any Supreme Court we’ve ever had would uphold). And it doesn’t constitute a threat, any more than this does:
“If I were to waterboard Dick Cheney a few hundred times, just to give him a taste of the reality of his evil behavior, much of the world would stand and applaud.”
However, immigration status is pretty much an administrative matter, rather than a judicial one, so ICE and their buddies get away with a lot of sleazy behavior. That said, deportation for protected speech is going to get a lot of scrutiny be the best minds practicing civil liberties law.
The worst of these cases I know of is this one ( http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&biw&bih&q=cache:ttqSR5FRSQQJ:http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Facebook-threat-case-back-on-track-for-trial-6485258.php – sorry, only Google has the magic backstage pass to read this article … but the apparent double-link form of this might send this post to eterrnal limbo). Kid makes a sarcastic “threat”, followed by “j/k”, to “shoot up a kindergarten”, *while playing a video game*, and the bastards are out to put him in jail for ten years. If it weren’t for an anonymous $500,000 donation the kid would be hiding out in solitary confinement to avoid having the shit beaten out of him to this day.
Compared to this, the Egyptian kid might have it relatively easy… provided his government is anti-Trump enough to forgo its first instinct to do something horrible that is.
Mr. Kouddous
“……..Elsayed’s threatening post, and subsequent detention, come amid a divisive election campaign, with Trump engaging in anti-Muslim and anti-Arab rhetoric, including calling for a ban on Muslims from entering the United States, fondly repeating a myth about a U.S. general executing Muslim prisoners in the Philippines with bullets dipped in pig’s blood, refusing to rule out creating a database of American Muslims, and falsely claiming that Arabs in New Jersey were cheering as the World Trade Center came down on 9/11……”
Who could blame Emad Elsayed from wanting to kill us – including Trump? Greenwald explains exactly why Muslims should want to commit acts of “terrorism” in America (and Trump is just one small reason):
“……There seems to be this pervasive belief in the US that we can invade, bomb, drone, kill, occupy, and tyrannize whomever we want, and that they will never respond. That isn’t how human affairs function and it never has been……..But don’t walk around acting surprised and bewildered and confounded (why do they hate us??) when violence is brought to US soil as well……”
“………type of large Predator or Reaper drones that shoot Hellfire missiles which destroy homes and cars in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan and multiple other countries aimed at Muslims…..”
“……..I’m most certainly not suggesting that anyone who supports Awlaki’s killing is driven by racism or anti-Muslim bigotry. I am suggesting that the belief that Muslims are somehow less American, or even less human, is widespread……”
“…….Every war – particularly protracted ones like the “War on Terror” – demands sustained dehumanization campaigns against the targets of the violence…….The violence and rights abridgments of the Bush and Obama administrations have been applied almost exclusively to Muslims. It is, therefore, Muslims who have been systematically dehumanized……”
Haven’t we bombed seven Muslims countries in the last few years? It shocks me every day that a Muslim isn’t accused of murdering someone of European decent in America (and would everyone just quit calling it terrorism)? Elsayed’s statement probably was just a harmless joke, but I wouldn’t have blamed him if he was serious – not even one bit. Maybe that bastion for human rights, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, will put a good word in for him. My God, don’t we prop up that murderer also?
No matter what triggered this ,if he was ordered deported he should be in detention before he takes innocent people’s lives . No need to let him out no matter how much the bail amount would be lives matter.
I agree with the notion that our record of Middle Eastern atrocities creates violent and reactionary attitudes among the affected citizens. Would this not, however, provide substance to the Trump opinion of halting immigration from Muslim majority countries?
“……Would this not, however, provide substance to the Trump opinion of halting immigration from Muslim majority countries?…..”
Well, if you believe everything that Greenwald says, indeed it would.
Let’s see, their reaction to our actions toward them, based on our fear and hate of them, justifies our fear and hate of them.
You just can’t argue with logic like that
When is a hypothetical statement a threat.? Oh yeah, when it is made by someone from the Middle East.
Does he have any available redress? I’m not as much surprised that the government is apparatus as I am that there’s no obvious path to redress, which would ideally act as a check on this kind of abuse.
Then again, this is basically the 297th time I’ve read of this kind of thing happening, so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised…
“Does he have any available redress?”
No, probably not. The courts are very reluctant to touch immigration issues, so the shameful set-up by the Fibbies and the flight school operator to deprive the kids of free speech rights will probably pass unchallenged.
We can hope that the ACLU will find a way to dissect the scam, but it doesn’t look as though it will be easy to do.
Our government’s idea of security; always guarding against that which has been done in the past thinking it will forestall the future.
Elsayed’s FB comment+Flight School (given 9/11) was ill advised. But, at 23 Elsayed might be forgiven for not assigning a lot of significance to – or understanding the implications of – an event that happened – presumably, half way around the world – when he was about 8 years old.
Nevertheless, our government can be counted upon to impose the most draconian measures possible…. even, as it continues to impose, what amounts to, security theater on all Americans traveling by air.
“…….Elsayed’s FB comment+Flight School (given 9/11) was ill advised. But, at 23 Elsayed might be forgiven for not assigning a lot of significance to – or understanding the implications of – an event that happened – presumably, half way around the world – when he was about 8 years old……”
I think he might be able to grasp that one Tally. You even suggested as much when you said: “….Elsayed’s FB comment+Flight School (given 9/11) was ill advised……”. Don’t yell fire in a theater, terrorist in an airport or threaten to kill a Presidential candidate. To be perfectly honest, the guy is probably hilarious as an individual – but probably will attend flight school in Egypt.
Stupid comment to post on Facebook in today’s atmosphere, but deportation proceedings? If it had been a white Christian student posting the same thing, nothing would have happened.
Oh, really?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/03/17588532-man-charged-with-terroristic-threat-in-texas-county-where-da-killed?lite
There are dozens and dozens more…
Mm, they were actually investigating murders that had already occurred. Much different scenario methinks.
Not only was there already a double homicide in that case, but the person arrested is Latino, not “white”.
Get many straws with that grasp?
http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-1622-no_laughing_matter.html
Yeah you racist what do you think would happen if you did the same thing in Egypt? Grow up and quit making excuses for morons!
Dumb comment. Only Trump is allowed to threaten to or brag about being able to kill people.
“Obama Told Aides He’s ‘Really Good At Killing People,’ ”
“Obama didn’t need to run through this preamble. Everyone knew the litany of his achievements. Foremost on that day, with the fresh news about al-Awlaki, it seemed the president was pondering the drone program that he had expanded so dramatically and with such lethal results, as well as the death of Bin Laden, which was still resonating worldwide months later. “Turns out I’m really good at killing people,” Obama said quietly, “Didn’t know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/03/obama-drones-double-down_n_4208815.html
What a dumb-ass…
“He feels it is unfair and that he is not taken at his word that he didn’t mean any of this. He doesn’t understand why this is happening.”
Cry me a river.
Yeah, it’s plain and simple. Don’t threaten someone’s life and expect the whole world to dance to your tune.
He didn’t threaten his life.
Sharif: “Elsayed’s threatening post. . .”
I presume you meant to write “Elsayed’s allegedly threatening post . . .”
The post appears, to me, to be protected speech under the 1st Amendment and established case law.
The difference here is this person isn’t a US citizen and can be deported for causing problems. Also I’d say this falls under “fighting words.” https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/315/568
“Also I’d say this falls under “fighting words.”
And you’d be totally wrong. See, e.g., Chaplinsky, cited above (noted the bolded phrase in Murphy’s opinion) and the subsequent cases cited by rr, Brandenburg, Hess, Rice, Holder & Planned Parenthood
Actually the “fighting words” doctrine is no longer good law. In other words, it isn’t that Elsayed’s Twitter comment even comes close to it, it’s that even “fighting words” are protected under the First Amendment.
Statements that aren’t protected is best understood by reading and understanding the interplay among these cases: Brandenburg v. Ohio; Hess v. Indiana; Rice v. Paladin Press; Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project; Planned Parenthood v. American Coalition of Life Activists.
Think of the test as follows: “incitement to imminent unlawful conduct”.
Chaplinsky hasn’t been directly precedential in any case I’m aware of since 1942, and Prof. Erwin Chemerinsky has written extensively on this topic if I remember correctly from Con Law [full disclosure Chemerinsky’s ConLaw textbook was the one used in my ConLaw courses at law school].
That is not to say that Elsayed may not have a problem under certain statutes. For example it is unlawful to make certain types of “threats” against a US President for example 18 U.S.C. Sec. 871.
Probably the way to think of that distinction is that the court attempts to balance an individual’s First Amendment rights by attempting to distinguish “political hypebole” from “willful true threats”. The latter being what is punishable as a class E felony when engaged in against a US President.
It’s a fine line obviously and won’t get into the relevant cases.
Yup.
Of course, Trump hasn’t been elected . . . yet. ;^(
You’re quite right. It’s just that Chaplinsky is the easiest formulation for most to understand and, although it may not have been precedential, it has also never been reversed (but, rather, consistently narrowed).
I also use it because, unlike, e.g., Brandenburg, it doesn’t push all the emotional buttons that send so many of our friends here into freakout mode.
Also, at your suggestion, I have read quite a bit of Chemerinsky, recently, and learned a lot. Thanks!
All countries reserve the right to cancel a visa, whether or not the recipient has actually committed a crime (Mr. Elsayed was never charged with a crime).
It therefore appears the issue is that the FBI made a false representation to the school administrator that the State Department had revoked the M-1 visa. Based on that information, the school terminated the I-20 form, and the visa then became invalid. Once that happened, Mr. Elsayed was subject to deportation. The FBI could no doubt have simply asked the State Department to cancel the M-1 visa, but the paperwork, the bureaucracy and the months of processing required probably persuaded them to take the more expedient course of action.
So the question is whether the FBI has a First Amendment right to tell lies. I would expect the ACLU of Southern California would step forward to defend them in this case.
Duce! I’m surprised at you.
When has there ever been a question about the FBI’s right to tell lies?
The answer, of course, is “never” — so th ACLU will be able to focus on other, more pressing matters.
I feel bad for this kid is innocent and he truly doesn’t understand why this is happening. However, he mentioned “killing” in his, now removed, FB post. He is also in the U.S. on a visa for a trade school. Specifically flying lessons. Turned in by the trade school. Isn’t this how the World Center came down? Men coming to the U.S. for flying lessons so they could accurately hit their target?
If a statement on a Facebook page means deportation: What about comments to kill entire families (as mentioned in previous GOP debates).
Won’t he be encouraged to act against the USA since his crime seems to be using the word “kill.”
Kinda the way we (USA) in large part, created ISIS.
As much as I dislike Trump , I don’t really have the urge to kill him . Obviously this guy does and I think it’s reasonable for the secret service to sit down and have a little chat with people that use Facebook to basically threaten/promote the killing of the people that they’re supposed to be protecting. And fuck Facebook I haven’t been on there for years now life is better without Facebook .
You don’t understand the 1st Amendment, the relevant case law or the tradition of free speech in the US.
Well first off, the kid is an idiot.
Second the legal test put forth by Doug Salzman can be met by Elsayed’s words. However a brief look at Obama’s twitter/FB comments will surely ascertain that the law was not blind this time.
Side note: Egypt has been known to breed dangerous fundamentalists which I am sure was taken into account.
It is also interesting the writer of this piece calls Trump’s rhetoric as anti-Arabic as if non-Arab Muslims are a minority among Muslims, is very telling.
“Second the legal test put forth by Doug Salzman can be met by Elsayed’s words.”
I’ll give you a hundred bucks if you can cite one case in which a federal appeals court has upheld that argument WRT any similar utterance.
You’re not going to find too many sympathetic voices in favor of a guy threatening to kill people – no matter how despicable said “people” may be.
1. There is no real threat here.
2. Sympathy isn’t at issue, the 1st Amendment is.
I’d like to see him try saying that stuff about el-Sisi back in his home country. Coming to the United States is a privilege, not a right
“Coming to the United States is a privilege, not a right”
Yes, but, while you’re here, free speech is a right.
This violent haji is in violation of his immigration status by committing a serious felony. Send him back to Egypt.
“This violent haji. . .”
Do you know that this young man has made the haj, or are you using the term in the vile and racist fashion that has become the custom for nasty-ass, brain-dead xenophobes? And exactly what violence has he engaged in, to your knowledge?
Boo hoo, it’s so hard to not make death threats.
I find it hard to justify a threat of violence because someone else is behaving bad. Enough of hate speech. Full stop.
you mean like “this violent Haji”?
I agree.