NASHVILLE: “Bulk information overload, that’s my favorite argument in debate,” Lena Grossman tells me in between bites of pizza during a short lunch break after winning a round at the Billy Tate Southern Bell Forum, a highly competitive, invitation-only debate competition held annually in Nashville. She thinks the U.S. government vacuums up more digital data than it knows what to do with — which hinders investigations more than it helps. “The evidence is always going to be better. … It’s just unbeatable,” she says. “People are lazy in research sometimes — but the strategies against this argument just don’t exist.”
Lena is 17, a senior at Niles West High School outside Chicago. She’s a former video game junkie with the build of a great blue heron, and part of a top-ranked, two-girl “policy debate” team. Lena’s partner is Faith Geraghty, 18, a blonde pit bull in Doc Martens and a former ice hockey champion who traded in her skates for an ever-present MacBook — now crammed full of information about things like the upcoming congressional debate on NSA spying programs authorized by Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.Jonah Jacobs, a dark-haired junior at Glenbrook North High School, also near Chicago, gave up football for debate after a bad concussion. He tells me he spent the entire summer researching the ways intelligence sharing with other countries benefits the U.S. economy. Jonah’s partner, Anthony Trufanov, was half of the national championship team last year. Many high school policy debaters literally gasp for air as they rush to make their arguments, but Anthony breathes between words, using an inhalation technique he learned from mastering Systema, a form of Russian martial arts. He says he’s enjoying debating about surveillance because he likes finding “nuanced solutions to complex problems.”
IF YOU’RE LOOKING for an intense, thoughtful, and detailed discussion about the U.S. government’s power to spy on its own citizens, you won’t find it in Congress. But you will find it in high school classrooms all across the country this year.
Nearly 20,000 American students participate annually in policy debate, where teams of two compete at the local and national levels.
This year, they are defending or attacking one central proposition: “Resolved: The United States federal government should substantially curtail its domestic surveillance.”
Delegates from various state associations and debate organizations choose the upcoming school year’s topics every summer. This year, Stefan Bauschard, a longtime debate coach now at Walter Panas High School in New York, proposed surveillance as the topic. He told me he was inspired by the work of Intercept co-founder Glenn Greenwald.
(Greenwald was a debater in high school. “High school debate was one of the most formative intellectual experiences of my life,” he tells me. “And it’s both bizarre and gratifying to see that debaters are now focused on a topic on which I’ve done so much reporting. Competitive debate takes place at a very high level of sophistication and knowledge – the work that is required to succeed is immense – and I have literally no doubt that the surveillance and privacy debates they’re having are vastly more informative and advanced than what one hears from the average TV news show.”)
There are multiple formats for competitive debate in American high schools. Bill Batterman, the director of debate at Woodward Academy in Atlanta, tells me by email that policy debate is “the oldest and most challenging.”For example, he writes, “On the op-ed pages or the cable news shows, pundits (or government officials) can make vague appeals to the number of terror plots stopped by surveillance. But in a debate, those assertions get subjected to intense scrutiny — and they quickly fall apart.”
Due to some of the oddities of high school debate, the policy debates aren’t easy to follow. The debaters share a unique and complicated language of terms and techniques, and they talk too fast for most people to understand, to fit as many arguments into their allotted time as possible.
But if you listen very carefully, you can hear a chorus of young people expressing their wariness about government surveillance, wrestling with how it impacts their own lives — and totally not buying the government’s arguments that fighting terror excuses warrantless spying on average Americans, especially of religious and racial minorities.
LENA AND FAITH, from Niles West, have amassed countless data points to support their argument that the NSA’s bulk collection of Americans’ and foreigners’ data — whether it be phone records, message content, or open source information, on purpose or by accident — has more disadvantages than benefits for the American people.
“Why didn’t metadata solve the Boston Marathon bombing?” Lena asks. The Tsarnaev brothers slipped through the cracks, she says, thanks to a lack of communication and FBI agents’ overwhelming workload.
“Why didn’t metadata solve the Boston Marathon bombing?”As another example, they cite October’s European Court of Justice’s ruling against a data-sharing framework between the United States and Europe based on concerns the NSA was violating Europeans’ data privacy. Negotiators from the European Union and the U.S. recently came to a tentative new agreement, but many privacy advocates doubt it will stand up to legal challenge, because it doesn’t include genuine surveillance reform.
None of this used to matter to them at all. “I had the attitude that if you don’t have anything to hide, it doesn’t matter. That changed for me,” Faith says. The more Lena learned, she tells me, the more she found the government’s power to collect information “creepy.”
Sometimes, debate being what it is, Lena and Faith have to fight on the negative side and find ways to derail their opponents’ plan to limit surveillance. Most debaters at the tournament told me that the negative side is often harder, because there are so many ways to argue against different aspects of surveillance, often on moral and technical grounds that can be challenging to counter with factual evidence.
But it doesn’t mean they won’t try — and win. In one round, Lena and Faith argue against a legal ban on the surveillance of Muslim-American communities, on the grounds that the government was going to surveil them whether it was legal or not. They win. Afterward, Faith talks about the strategy they used to fight the other team’s emotional argument against discriminatory spying. “It’s a little Donald Trump-y,” she says, shrugging. “But you gotta do what you gotta do.”
HIGH SCHOOL DEBATERS generally avoid a flat-out strategy of arguing that surveillance is necessary to prevent terrorism. In stark contrast to lawmakers and national security officials, they don’t think that argument works. “Terrorism is just not really happening,” Emily Silber, another Niles West debater, tells me during lunch, laughing.
More often, they’ll argue that ending any one specific program won’t be enough to change anything, because the government would probably find a way to get around the new restriction.
Some debaters are surveillance purists, like Lena and Faith, and think the argument should be solely about the U.S. government’s electronic collection of American communications data, exposed by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013.
“We have a unique chance to talk about getting rid of government surveillance.”Others address sub-topics — arguing against specific Transportation Security Administration body scanner programs, Common Core testing surveillance, consumer privacy, the use of FBI informants in terror investigations, or surveillance of particular immigrant communities.
And a third category includes more radical, “identity” debaters. They argue that debate shouldn’t focus on any specific government program, because the entire government as it currently exists is inherently racist or discriminatory. They argue that suggesting new policy or reforming current programs effectively legitimizes violence toward minorities. These debaters use poetry, personal experiences, and loud, explosive arguments to shift the conversation toward changing the government itself.
In an affirmative argument, students might propose eliminating a specific surveillance program, like shuttering the TSA’s “SPOT” program (Screening of Passengers by Observation Techniques) as a first step in countering Islamophobia.
The opposing team must then argue that the affirmative team’s strategy would not work, for whatever reason — that it wouldn’t actually address the root problem, or is otherwise flawed.
AT THE ANNUAL debate competition in Nashville, 52 pairs of students from across the country meet just after New Year’s Day to compete for three days of intense debate. I almost never see anyone without a Starbucks coffee or a bottle of water — but no sweets. That’ll make your mouth sticky, which makes it harder to talk fast.
The classrooms are quiet in between rounds, other than some manic shuffling of papers, the soft click of computer keyboards, and a few whispers between teammates.
In one room, the two boys from Glenbrook North break the tension and talk to me about their strategy.
“We have a unique chance to talk about getting rid of government surveillance,” says Jonah, the former football player.
“I think it’s rather unfortunate that the government doesn’t engage in such nuanced debates over surveillance policy,” he emails me later. “From what’s publicized about the congressional debates, they seem to focus too often on the ‘yes/no’ aspect of the questions of ‘privacy vs. national security.’ … Due to the meticulousness of the research debaters have done, there doesn’t appear to be a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer to either.”
“How do we curtail surveillance? By tearing shit down.”Jonah and Anthony, when they are on the affirmative side, make a complex argument that the government should place limits on surveillance from drones — before the fledgling technology faces a harmful backlash that could result in even stricter limits. “Enacting surveillance limits now is vital to forestall a complete ban on beneficial drone use,” their argument reads. “Backlash is driven by fear of surveillance and results in a patchwork of regulations that stop drone use for crop monitoring and atmospheric data collection.”
One of the nation’s top debating duos hails from Little Rock Central High School in Arkansas — famous for its role in desegregation. DJ Williams and Payton Woods are among the relatively few black debaters at the Bell Forum.
Payton begins one debate round by launching into an eloquent speech about surveillance as a paradigm of racialized violence that directly follows the tradition of slavery and plantations. “How do we curtail surveillance? By tearing shit down,” he says.
Teams that oppose Little Rock Central have trouble coming up with specific proposals to counter DJ and Payton — which is exactly their plan. “We can inject our own understandings,” Payton insists when the opposing team tries to argue he went off-topic.
Ella Fisher and Jax Rounds, from Notre Dame High School in Sherman Oaks, California, have come up with a unique way to argue against U.S. surveillance. When they get assigned the affirmative side, they argue that the TSA should no longer be allowed to use body scanners at airports because the technology identifies transgender bodies as “anomalies.”
Ella, a petite high school senior with short brown hair and a slightly boyish style, has a powerful emotive tenor when delivering her speeches. “The scanners actively reinforce the idea of a ‘non-normal’ body,” Ella says during her passionate opening. “That definition of a normal body is the problem. This is a form of institutional violence that spills into everyday violence.”
Before the tournament, Ella tells me that debate has helped her grow into herself. Debate is my “community of people,” she says. It’s clear from meeting her that this is true — and that she actively hopes to expand that community. She often asks me if I’m following the fast-paced debate rounds, and if I have questions.
Jerry Wang and Raam Tambe end up winning the Nashville tournament. The duo from Peninsula High School in California argues that military commanders shouldn’t be allowed to force doctors to hand over sensitive medical information about soldiers, especially about mental disorders. In 2010, the Army expanded on the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) of 1996, designed to safeguard medical information, by allowing military commanders more information, such as a log of medical appointments.
IT’S FASCINATING to listen to these high school students as they not only discuss surveillance in theory, but also relate it to their own lives. And they’re talking about it with friends, family, even strangers in the airport.
Ella’s teammate, Jax Rounds, has been debating since sixth grade. He tells me he’s changed some of his online behaviors now that he knows the scope of surveillance in the U.S. — and thinks debate has allowed him to think more independently, unlike classmates who might be “coddled” and unchallenged, he jokes.
“I bet no one even knew or cared about privacy before going to debate camp,” Lena from Niles West tells me. “But after, I knew people who were freaking out and just obsessed with that whole terror versus privacy controversy. Because of what I know, I am super careful on social media.”
But personal reactions to the topic vary.
A few debaters say they feel comfortable letting the government spy on them — to an extent. “I think the government should be able to surveil Americans in a way that’s not intrusive,” says Michael Callahan from Glenbrook South — Jonah and Anthony’s rival school. “They don’t read your emails, read your text messages. I am not worried about the NSA knowing a little bit about my personal life in exchange for providing security.”“If anything, debate has made me more apathetic about surveillance. It loses its shock value after a while,” says Emily from Niles West.
When I ask Dan Lingel — a coach from Dallas Jesuit High School in Texas — he says social media is a big factor. “It’s amazing how little expectation of privacy they have, already they’re fully aware their stuff is being tracked. … Maybe it’s a generational thing.”
And maybe there’s something else at work, too, says Batterman, the coach from Atlanta. “I think part of this has to do with socioeconomic status of elite-level debaters (they tend, unsurprisingly, to be wealthy),” he writes in a PGP-encrypted email.
“Part of it seems cultural. Some students are terrifyingly trusting of their government. But as they became more literate in surveillance issues, I think a lot of the students became more skeptical about the value of bulk-collection programs and more reticent about the government wielding that degree of power.”
Bauschard, the debate coach who initially proposed surveillance as a topic, says, “In many ways, minorities and the poor are disproportionally exposed to it, and many students have embraced debates about these particular issues. And they have explored other ways that surveillance is present in ways that we don’t even suspect, such as in welfare laws and in the collection and reporting of Common Core test data.”
THESE DAYS, Lena and Faith are on top of every new development in the world on the path to this year’s spring tournaments — the national championships.
“It can be difficult to keep up with every new event, especially leading up to the final tournaments in the wake of Scalia’s death, the FBI-Apple battle over encryption, and so much more, but change is the nature of this activity and especially such a timely topic as surveillance,” Lena writes in an email.
A few nights before the Nashville tournament started, a Wall Street Journal article reported that the NSA, in targeting Israeli communications, swept up communications belonging to members of the U.S. Congress. Lena and Faith hastily edited their arguments to include facts from the article, and to suggest that Congress would be more likely to favor limits to spying because members would now feel like targets.
That was a good argument, but a bad prediction. Congress still has no stomach for a genuine debate about the limit of government surveillance in modern society. For that, we need to listen to the children.
At Common Cause’s “Blueprint for Democracy” conference on March 8, Edward Snowden was asked if he had a message to share with debaters this year. He said he was “encouraged and amazed” that a discussion was taking place “on such a broad level.”
Are you a high school debater who’s been developing an interesting argument about surveillance? Maybe it’s personally powerful, or unique, or unbeatable? I’d love to hear about it. Send me an email at jenna.mclaughlin@theintercept.com describing your argument — and feel free to include pictures or video.
The propaganda of the usa now wants to create manipulation and deceit without reaching resolutions and conclusion concerning the abolishment of privacy using the education system to perpetrate their fascist discombobulation – Alejandro Grace Ararat.
HIllary Clinton On Possibility Of President Donald Trump | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cS-tPdVzgc4
Thanks to Jenna McLaughlin and The Intercept staff for this insight into an enlightened aspect of what is going on amongst our youth and their teachers.
As Usual,
EA
I also debated in high school interscholastically though I preferred performing humorous or dramatic interpretations, winning more trophies with the acting stuff. However it was the early ’70s, a time of the very first Texas Instruments hand-held calculators, and for debates we actually carried around small portable filing cabinets filled to the brim with 5×8 note cards. On each was a reference painstakingly acquired through endless hours in libraries, pouring over any periodicals even remotely related to the topic, and then either legibly handwritten or typed.
Caveman stuff, right?
I’m sure you’ll get some interesting arguments/input, Jenna, and I hope you’ll share.
Pardon me, I should have qualified those as the first hand-held calculators – with memory functions.
We only have the NSA’s word that only metadata is collected. The size of the NSA storage facilities here and in other area here and abroad indicate much more is being collected and stored. Remember NSA lied directly to Congress and the American public.
If the NSA is so hot, why does the FBI have to sue Apple for the iphone codes? That’s because the only thing NSA can do is send porn spam. That’s what happens when you hire kids and your relatives :)
Precedent. Once authorities get the A-O-K then I would presume they would proceed with a no holds barred approach, perhaps even suspecting any who have simple objections . Personally I presume the NSA has such capabilities, but what they do is secret! lol… Those dirty bastards at the NSA would use the rationalization that it is a national security interest.
Another relevant thoughtful article from those fabulous minds @ The Intercept. ;-D <3
Why is the military flying drones over US soil?
A Department of Defense report examined the few instances of drone operations in United States territory, concluding that the mostly emergency-related exercises were legal and followed appropriate procedures.
By Ben Thompson, Staff MARCH 10, 2016
Pentagon Has Been Using Spy Drones In U.S.
[Excerpt]
“Our review of UAS policy implementation across the department, coupled with our unit visits to discuss actual events, did not reveal evidence that any DoD entity has employed a UAS or conducted »»»»» [Processing, Exploitation, and Dissemination] ««««« in support of domestic civil authorities contrary to laws, regulations, or national policies,” the report concluded.
The Inspector General also found that while units utilizing drones “understand the American public’s legitimate concerns about civil liberties and privacy rights, they do not operate UASs any differently from manned platforms with similar capabilities.”
(cont.)
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2016/0310/Why-is-the-military-flying-drones-over-US-soil
[Refer my comments below …]
“If you’re not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?”
That’s easy: You have to worry about the government doing something wrong. Possibly VERY wrong.
The more useful government surveillance is for keeping you safe from terrorists and criminals — even supposing that to be its true purpose — the LESS safe you are from the government itself. And in the long run, government is by far the greatest threat to life and liberty.
The vast majority of people who were murdered in the 20th Century were murdered by their own governments. Their number dwarfs even the millions who were killed in wars. Yet some people suppose that a regime like that of Hitler, Stalin, or Mao could never happen in the US. But few of the victims of the aforementioned regimes ever believed THEIR governments would turn on them, either. Had they seen it coming, they would not have stuck around waiting for it to happen.
Therefore, even if you trust the government NOW — which would make you a fool — how do you know what every future government is going to be like? This is why the Fourth Amendment is so important, as is the First, Second, and all the rest of the Bill of Rights. NO compromise of these should be tolerated.
We need to end bulk surveillance in ALL forms. And to hell with the myth of “safety.” There is no such thing. Not one person reading this post is guaranteed to see his or her next birthday. It could be a stroke, heart attack, car accident, meteor strike…you just don’t know. But you do get to choose whether the time you have left is spent with dignity as a free human being, or in miserable subjugation like a groveling peasant.
But you do get to choose whether the time you have left is spent with dignity as a free human being, or in miserable subjugation like a groveling peasant. – Mike T
Really ???
Slavery – Wikipedia
(Redirected from Enslavement)
[Excerpt]
Slavery is a legal or economic system in which principles of property law are applied to humans allowing them to be classified as property,[1] to be owned, bought and sold accordingly, and they cannot withdraw unilaterally from the arrangement. While a person is a slave, the owner is entitled to the productivity of the slave’s labour, without any remuneration. The rights and protection of the slave may be regulated by laws and customs in a particular time and place, and a person may become a slave from the time of their capture, purchase or birth.
Today, chattel slavery is unlawful in all countries, but a person may still be described as a slave if he or she is forced to work for another person without an ability on their part to unilaterally terminate the arrangement. Such situations are today commonly referred to as “practices similar to slavery”. The present form of the slave trade is commonly referred to as human trafficking.
(cont.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery
Awesome piece! I love it!
Why is this called debates?
I’m not from the US nor from an english speaking country, but I can’t help but laugh when I saw these kids just blblblbl all muscles out, what the fuck is that? If I didn’t know anything and you show me somebody do this, I would assume it’s some kind of autistic behavior / crisis when the person just lose control of his/her body.
That being said all of the work around it is obviously valuable, but damn why is this allowed to talk that fast? What kind of debates exist when you can’t understand shit? The congress should listen to that? For what? What “blblblbllblbbl” is gonna do for them?
@Mimu-What?
ATTENTION STUDENTS. If someone enters your personal space to monitor you, and you consider yourself a valuable part of society, and you accept this watching and monitoring, YOUR BRAIN WILL AUTOMATICALLY BRAND YOU AS UNTRUSTABLE. It’s automatic. There is NOTHING you can do about that branding. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT is that YOU BECOME A DIFFERENT ANIMAL.
You become a different animal. You learn to doubt yourself. You learn to seek permission and approval. You become easily intimidated. You try to fit in and join “acceptable groups”. You do not develop as an individual. Over time that watched over society becomes more like stepford wives or an insect colony.
This sort of TWISTED EXHIBITIONISM is not you and your camera entertaining people who you invited to watch you. NO. This is the secret spy creeps who PRESENT A CLEAR AND PRESENT THREAT to your individuality and will power to speak out, stand against, and protest.
THIS SPY ON YOU STUFF IS EVIL. It is not meant for human beings. It is the stuff of nazi styled super conformist terrorist oriented predators who have the power to dismiss your life or livelyhood with a phone call.
GET RID OF IT.
Jenna,
I usually enjoy your articles on surveillance, but this one seems just too desperate for discussion. I did debate throughout my high school and college careers, and it’s precisely this “policy debate” bullshit that destroys meaningful chances for students to learn. Debate is supposed to be about presenting coherent arguments to enlighten discussion on controversial topics, but the kind of “debate” you’re showcasing here is the very cancer of the activity itself.
It sounds like someone is not a fan of the spread. In the end of the day let the students decide what type debate they want to do. I find policy debate to be intellectually stimulating and a fun game to play/adjudicate. ALL debate styles are valuable and I would never think of trashing another style of debate. I would fully support an article that promotes the type of debate you enjoy.
You’re right — I’m clearly not a fan of spread. But I think it’s disingenuous to suggest that the students are actively choosing to do debate like this. This ludicrous degree of spreading in U.S. policy debate is a symptom of over-zealous competition between schools so they can bring trophies home and justify inflated budgets for their programs. The irony is that those trophies are earned by not presenting coherent or compelling speeches; they are instead the result of throwing as much BS on the flow as possible and then claiming throughout the rest of the debate: “My opponents could not answer all of the incomplete arguments I threw out in my first speech because they ran out of time, and the judges must therefore weigh those unanswered arguments in my favor.”
It’s simply one of the most intellectually dishonest things I’ve come across in an activity that professes to be for smart kids only.
I know a lot of students and former debaters who have the choice between the various debate events and actively choose policy debate. In high level varsity policy debates, the round is decided by an in depth analysis of a few key issues. There are times, however, that a round is decided on an argument that was not answered on the flow. That is a part of the game. I think your arguments re: budget, etc. could be applied to almost any activity in high school including athletics. Finally, debate should be for ALL students not smart kids only. I wish that stereotype was broken down.
I’m saying that being successful in debate often presumes you were the smarter one, or at least had the smarter arguments. Spreading and winning proves that false. Yes, it’s perfectly fine for a debate to be decided by the fact that a good argument was left unanswered — but spreading that argument, at least in my opinion, might as well be considered an incomplete argument and it therefore should not be weighed.
And you’re right in saying “it’s part of the game,” because that’s exactly how policy debate like this is treated — like a game. The whole issue of spreading is a “strategy” based on the “meta” of debate. Truth be told, it’s silly and disingenuous to what intelligent discussions could otherwise be had.
Many high school policy debaters literally gasp for air as they rush to make their arguments, but Anthony breathes between words, using an inhalation technique he learned from mastering Systema, a form of Russian martial arts. He says he’s enjoying debating about surveillance because he likes finding “nuanced solutions to complex problems.
If debate is about techniques and not content, thoughful content, then this sounds more like good training for the court room or maybe the boardroom, winner takes all, that a method for getting “nuanced solutions to complex problems.”
I truly have faith in young people, those who have grown up with the internet are much wiser than many of their older counterparts, even if they will never get credit for it.
Jenna-
It is rare to find an article about policy debate that is so accurate. You have done a remarkable job portraying the work that goes into debates as well as the complexity of different arguments and styles. I believe I speak on behalf of the entire debate community when I say– thank you for sharing our world.
The public thinks that the government will collect the surveillance data and only use it for terrorism data, but the government has abused its power and violated the constitution 6 ways to Sunday. But it is hard to have a real “debate” when the governments abuse of power is never exposed. The government can say that the data is needed to stop terrorism, but no one can say that the government has actively abused its authority because the abuse is covered up. So the debate becomes one sided. At least high schoolers are attempting to have this debate. And if it wasn’t for Snowden this debate may never have happened. I think if people knew the truth about how the government has acted since Obama became president a lot of people might view his actions as borderline fascist. The media always talks about how Donald Trump is borderline fascist. But if people could see how the government has abused its power they would think the same of Barrack Obama.
GREAT POINT! Attention students. There is another evil effect of this watch-you-cant-trust-you epidemic. IT ATTRACTS KILLER TYPES. There are people in this world – especially the u.s. – who have a mental disorder, a phobia, a fear of powerlessness. Their remedy for this condition is to seek power over others. You will find this disorder especially prevalent in the work environment (on the job) with bosses who make unusual and disrespectful demands of you or others. It is especially noticeable between bossman workingwoman situations.
In the political environment, power seekers GRAVITATE TO POSITIONS WHERE THEY HAVE POWER OVER OTHERS. These types are probably not here yet in big numbers, BUT THEY WILL COME.
ah- forgot. Here is an example of where this already happened in the u.s.
THE MURDER OF FRED HAMPTON. This murder was a powerplay by none other than the monster known as HERBERT HOOVER. (a real sicko)
I’m glad they are talking about surveillance but is this parliamentary style debate or is it that CEDA crap where it’s just a bunch fast-talking gibberish, rapping, and digression into non sequiturs. The article doesn’t provide a video.
Might I suggest that you actually read the article, and, while you’re at it, view the video which is provided within the article?
LMAO
I didn’t see the video link at the beginning, but sure enough I clicked on it and it was not only CEDA incoherence, but the typical justification for talking so fast that the audience has no way of understanding the argument. Again, arguing about surveillance is noble, but arguing in a format where no one can understand what your saying doesn’t serve anyone.
If Glenn Greenwald was engaged in a debate and he went out there and started babbling at 1000 words per minute, he’d be laughed out of Dodge. So what is the utility of teaching this nonsense when it has no practical utility to convince people of the argument?
Excellent article, Jenna. Thank you for giving a platform and voice to high school debaters. This article illustrates how much the debaters learn about each yearly topic. Thanks again!
It’s good that some young people are taking a stand against the ever-widening, all-enveloping surveillance state.
robertsrevolution.net
For a living example of a predatory spy-guy using a position of power over others for the benefit of his political friends against the citizens of the u.s. you need look no further than the MURDER OF FRED HAMPTON by none other than the twisted sicko called HERBERT HOOVER – a real traitor to the human species.
One thing I remember from high school and college was real debates. Happens in academia, but the moment you get to real-world politics, debates just stop. All you get after you reach adulthood is bulk advertising, anonymous op-eds, twitter sniping, and shouting matches.
Ralph Nader calls the presidential debates “parallel interviews” (rightfully so)l. Someone should confront Bernie Sanders on the campaign trail and ask, “Will he pledge to return the presidential debates to The League of Women Voters, if he is elected”. He seems like the candidate most likely to acknowledge that as a damn good idea and not try to evade the question.
Ah, I love and hate this article for different reasons. I love it because of the focus on surveillance, high school debate and the debaters themselves. I hate it because I was in debate in high school and I absolutely LOATHED going up against a 1000-word-per-minute “spreader” as they were called. I think the fact that high school policy debate involves speaking unintelligibly fast so that you can dump an indecipherable amount of data onto your opponent is extremely detrimental to the quality of debates. Maybe I’m just bitter since I was a Lincoln-Douglas debater, and we talked like normal people about the moral or ethical consequences of certain resolutions.
Please. LD-debate is picking up the bullshit speed like every other format. Speech & debate at large is pretty lame here in the U.S.
I have a question for you Jenna.
Have any of these young debaters (on the ‘anti’ surveillance side) ever considered the blackmail issue as part of their arguments?
Great article that former debaters can especially appreciate. I can still recite by memory the debate resolution from my high school days (circa 1985). Resolved: that the federal government should employ all employable united states citizens living in poverty. I sure did learn a lot about economics, especially as it relates to employment policy.
Truth only in drunks and children.
Thomas Jefferson … and cawfy drinkers. Lol! Cheers!
Consider federal or corporate employment background checks conducting using something like the “Total Information Awareness” programs which became public in 2002, a program of the “Information Awareness Office” of DARPA (the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency)
The general concept was to create a detailed file on every American citizen, composed everything from credit card usage history, cell phone contacts, email contacts, content of texts and emails, transcribed phone calls, online Internet activities, political affiliations, voting history, etc., and store those files in a searchable database. The same would ideally be done with every person on the planet, if they could get enough capacity – certainly, they’d want such files on all members of foreign governments as well.
Part of the concept was that this data could be used to make ‘forecasts’ – i.e. could you search through the database for ‘potential subversives?’ Could you use it to predict stock market booms and busts? Could you use it to detect the formation of populist uprisings like the Arab Spring before they broke out in public? Yes, this would be something that police state authoritarians would love to get their hands on – the East German STASI, Chinese Communist Party, any number of repressive regimes in the Middle East, any dictator anywhere wanting to keep a lid on domestic dissent – as well as the Bush Administration.
While there was an outcry at the time when the existence of the program was leaked to the press, as Snowden’s revelations made clear, the DARPA program was never really ended, but was incorporated into the NSA. The massive NSA data storage facility in Utah (consuming some 65 million watts continuously, using 1.5 million gallons of water a day to cool its servers) is the repository of all the data they collect on people all around the world.
What they are doing is collecting and storing and sorting and archiving as much data off the internet and telephone networks as they can – all without a warrant. The idea is, that if someone wants to look at it later, they go and get a warrant, and that’s fine, it’s not a violation of Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure.
So all these kids who participate in these debates could very well have that information going into a government-held file – and if somewhere down the line, they apply for a government job, that information could be pulled up – and – hey, you one participated in a debate about mass surveillance! Sorry, no job for you, you might be subversive.
Brilliant, photosymbiosis! Also there is rarely any emphasis on how all this so-called intel is in fact “disseminated” and for what purposes. And to what extent spies and intel gatherers “project” their own thoughts, beliefs, ideologies, etc. on their targeted subjects. Attempts at thought control. Operative conditioning. Intimidation. Harassment. Sexual exploitation …
EXCELLENT SUBREPORT!! a must read.
I wonder if any of them have put forward the notion of making the government pay for its intrusions into our privacy. Money is often used to ration things. If a government agency has to pay $5 per infraction for rifling through a billion phone records or emails, they might think twice about it.
Another way to limit the data collection is time based. That is, a statute of limitations on how long specific types of data can be retained.
Policies based on these limitations could be extended to the private sector. It isn’t just the government collecting our data.
Outstanding and interesting article. A brilliant balance of issue discussion and feature about debate.
Agreed. Nicely done.
Teaching critical thinking skills is inherently risky. While the debate team members “tend, unsurprisingly, to be wealthy”, I wonder if there are sufficient controls in place to ensure only the right people are selected. What would prevent another Glenn Greenwald from slipping through the cracks?
Many of these high school debaters will go on to become contributing members of Mrs. Clinton’s public relations team. But what of the rest? They have been taught to use argument as a weapon. That skill can’t simply be unlearned. It’s a bit analogous to re-integrating special forces servicemen back into civilian society.
The answer, of course, is to place them under a heightened surveillance regime. When they show even the slightest sign of using their highly honed skills to disrupt the equilibrium of society, early intervention can take place. This may seem somewhat Orwellian, but it is preferable to waiting until the proletarians rise up and turn the United States into a flaming wreck.
Better get the, “Very Serious People,” on those selections right away! “Let another Greenwald slip through the cracks,” too funny!
Is there a meme or emoji or some digital brand for that yet? The Very Serious People? Ahh, probably too inside baseball. I’d buy that T-shirt though, or hat!
You’ll pay for that shirt twice: the product will be produced w ur tax dollars, then you’ll pay msrp.
Consummate fascism.
PRECRIME here we come. Forget about taking chances on creating a healthy operating environment at great expense with the hopeless hope that everyone will be productive happy and harmless because there is always that one apple that spoils the barrel. See? that guy there stole something so the whole system is no good, some will say with the force of his media and make an offer to buy up the entire country and do things his way. You can do that when you own everything – all the land and resources at least.
OR – how about putting everyone behind a wall and give them as little as possible with the understood threat that somebody else will do better for less and, if they get out of line, execute them as being a burden upon the bottom line.
Your insights are both inspiring and entertaining.
Impressive! The kids are all right!
The eyes of the young are not distorted or tinkered. They see and speak.
Thanks
“or blinkered”