At Wednesday night’s Democratic debate, Hillary Clinton attacked Bernie Sanders for praising Fidel Castro in the 1980s, as well as for standing with Central American governments and rebel groups targeted by Ronald Reagan’s brutal covert wars. “You know,” said the former secretary of state, “if the values are that you oppress people, you disappear people, imprison people or even kill people for expressing their opinions, for expressing freedom of speech, that is not the kind of revolution of values that I ever want to see anywhere.”
To defend her remarks, Clinton’s faithful Good Democratic supporters began instantly spouting rhetoric that sounded like a right-wing, red-baiting Cold War cartoon; in other words, these Clinton-defending Democrats sounded very much like this:
Democrats trust a guy who praises Castro & honeymooned in USSR more than Clinton. Says a lot about Clinton & current Dem party #DemDebate
— Reince Priebus (@Reince) March 10, 2016
Vehement opposition to Reagan’s covert wars in Central America, as well as to the sadistic and senseless embargo of Cuba, were once standard liberal positions. As my colleague Jeremy Scahill, observing the reaction of Clinton supporters during the debate, put it in a series of tweets: “The U.S. sponsored deaths squads that massacred countless central and Latin Americans, murdered nuns and priests, assassinated an Archbishop. I bet commie Sanders was even against Reagan’s humanitarian mining of Nicaraguan waters & supported subsequent war crimes judgment vs. U.S. Have any of these Hillarybots heard of the Contra death squads? Or is it just that whatever Hillary says must be defended at all costs? The Hillarybots attacking Sanders over Nicaragua should be ashamed of themselves.”
Let’s pretend for the sake of argument that the horror expressed by Clinton and her supporters over Sanders’s 1980s positions on Latin America was all driven by some sort of authentic outrage over praising tyrants and human rights abusers rather than a cynical, craven tactic to undermine Sanders using long-standing right-wing, red-baiting smears. Is Hillary Clinton a credible voice for condemning support for despots and human rights abusers? To answer that, let’s review much more recent evidence than the 1980s:
Egyptian despot Hosni Mubarak:
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad:
Clinton on Face the Nation, 2011, arguing that Qaddafi is worse than Assad:
There’s a different leader in Syria now. Many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he’s a reformer. … There’s a difference between calling out aircraft and indiscriminately strafing and bombing and strafing your own cities, than police actions which frankly have exceeded the use of force that any of us would want to see.
As PolitiFact noted, Clinton phrased the “reformer” comment as something “members of Congress” believe, but it was cited by her in order to favorably compare Assad to Qaddafi: “Clinton’s choice to talk about those members’ opinions of Assad without knocking them down suggests she may have found them credible.”
The Saudi regime:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu:
The right-wing coup government in Honduras
Gulf tyrannies
Clinton as secretary of state:
As International Business Times reported last year, the Clinton-led State Department approved arms sales and transfers to a slew of human-rights-abusing regimes, which also just so happened to have donated large amounts of money to the Clinton Foundation:
The Saudi deal was one of dozens of arms sales approved by Hillary Clinton’s State Department that placed weapons in the hands of governments that had also donated money to the Clinton family philanthropic empire. … The State Department formally approved these arms sales even as many of the deals enhanced the military power of countries ruled by authoritarian regimes whose human rights abuses had been criticized by the department. Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, and Qatar all donated to the Clinton Foundation and also gained State Department clearance to buy caches of American-made weapons even as the department singled them out for a range of alleged ills, from corruption to restrictions on civil liberties to violent crackdowns against political opponents.
War criminal and dictator-supporter Henry Kissinger:
It seems that, overnight, Clinton and her supporters have decided that Sanders’s opposition to Reagan-era wars against Latin American governments and rebel groups — a common liberal position at the time — is actually terribly wrong and something worthy of demonization rather than admiration, because those governments and groups abused human rights. Whatever else one might say about this mimicking of right-wing agitprop, Hillary Clinton for years has been one of the world’s most stalwart friends of some of the world’s worst despots and war criminals, making her and her campaign a very odd vessel for demonizing others for their links to and admiration of human-rights abusers.
Top photo: U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton walks with Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal upon her arrival to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Feb. 15, 2010.
There has never been such an obviously corrupt political character as Hillary Clinton in our nations history.
With a track record of obvious sh*t.
Unbelievable,the support.
Are you surprised ? What really do you expect from Americans ? Intelligence ? Responsibility ? Accountability ? From a nation of warmongers, with War Criminals”presidents” ?
It’s rather ironic that the US government enforces the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act on US companies who would attempt to influence foreign governments but be completely blind to the exact same money-laundering-influence-peddling schemes going through the State Dept via Clinton Foundation. Oh, wait, I forget, the justice dept and State dept are creatures of the Executive branch. What sham political structures.
and another thing regarding St Hillary –
the whole busiess with rape on Salon, glennnnnn and the FBI/CIA/NSA mind job with email and “terror” and whatnot and the MRAs and why women only make 2/3 the male wage etc:
it may all be true
or you may just be angry in general, if the shoe fits and all that jazz otherwise don’t wear it
however the “shoe” ends up being the anger itself, regardless of any actual crime … so in a very real social sense (here in the US, anyway) the male life sort of implodes just like the rest of the usual suspects and “most wanteds” and brain-dead housewives
and we get trump
just a warning … hillary can call for america being made whole again but don’t count on it happening, brace yourself for the Big Hate
one of the consequences of the war on patriarchy waged by Hillary et al is the ongoing triumph of emotional reasoning
not to say that women are not able to use logic, just pointing out that they’re following a patriarchal model of thinking
and of course men are capable of emotional reasoning, the best current example in politics being donald trump … this dude is no rumsfeld
neither is Hillary some sort of latter-day Madame Curie for the Brown University crowd
at any rate, the expressions of emotional logic in this particular election cycle give us a kind of stalin vs hitler faceoff that will be “fascinating”, as spock used to say on the tv show
Shame on Bernie Sanders for having opposed the slaughter of over 100,000 Guatemalan civilians by U.S funded, trained, and politically protected death squads during the Reagan years.
According to Amnesty International, in just four months there were more than 2,000 fully documented extrajudicial killings by the Guatemalan army: ‘People of all ages were not only shot, they were burned alive, hacked to death, disembowelled, drowned, beheaded. Small children were smashed against rocks or bayoneted to death.’ The Catholic bishops said: ‘Never in our national history has it come to such extremes.’
US President Ronald Reagan, visiting Guatemala on a swing through Latin America at the time, hailed Rios Montt as ‘totally dedicated to democracy’.
Rural women suspected of guerrilla sympathies were raped before execution, New York attorney and Americas Watch representative Stephen L. Kass said. Children were “thrown into burning homes. They are thrown in the air and speared with bayonets.
We heard many, many stories of children being picked up by the ankles and swung against poles so their heads are destroyed.” [AP, March 17, 1983]
About time that one pointed out these facts which are out there for everyone bothering to check.
These facts have also been described some time ago by WIlliam Blum, an AMERICAN citizen.
Noam Chomsky, an American citizen, denounces the double standards on foreign policy since ages.
Glenn Greenwald here, is another American citizen.
History is made of facts, not fiction.
all of those who accuse these people of antiamericanism are basically people who love to live in denial and prefer fiction over facts.
Keep thinking that Fidel Castro is the worst dictator in the world. Forget about the terrible regimes who have caused deaths and pain in the world.
Go to some bookstore and buy George Soros latest “essay” on world democracy and vote for Rubio who never went to Cuba in his life and states he wants to enforce the embargo on Cuba and at the same time loves “his” people.
Fidel Castro may not be an angel but unlike the bunch of dictators supported by US and European Allies (servants), he made his people “Literate”. Created the best doctors in the world with the least possible resources available.
and should we talk about US and EU’s allies today? Uzbekistan? Saudi Arabia?.
Ignorance is the world worst enemy and Rogue Governments’ best allies.
Historian William Blum just published an on-line essay in which he contemplates The Electoral Choice from Hell* featuring Clinton vs. Trump.
Blum despairs choosing the warmonger or the demagogue:
. . .beginning with a hard look at Clinton’s many accomplishments:
The question of Zelaya was anything but moot. Latin American leaders, the United Nations General Assembly, and other international bodies vehemently demanded his immediate return to office. Washington, however, quickly resumed normal diplomatic relations with the new right-wing police state, and Honduras has since become a major impetus for the child migrants currently pouring into the United States.
The headline from Time magazine’s report on Honduras at the close of that year (December 3, 2009) summed it up as follows: “Obama’s Latin America Policy Looks Like Bush’s”.
And Hillary Clinton looks like a conservative. And has for many years; going back to at least the 1980s, while the wife of the Arkansas governor, when she strongly supported the death-squad torturers known as the Contras, who were the empire’s proxy army in Nicaragua. . .
And what do we have in 2016? Fully 116 members of the Republican Party’s national security community, many of them veterans of Bush administrations, have signed an open letter threatening that, if Trump is nominated, they will all desert, and some will defect – to Hillary Clinton! “Hillary is the lesser evil, by a large margin,” says Eliot Cohen of the Bush II State Department. Cohen helped line up neocons to sign the “Dump-Trump” manifesto. Another signer, foreign-policy ultra-conservative author Robert Kagan, declared: “The only choice will be to vote for Hillary Clinton.”
The only choice? What’s wrong with Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate? … Oh, I see, not conservative enough.
And Mr. Trump? Much more a critic of US foreign policy than Hillary or Bernie. He speaks of Russia and Vladimir Putin as positive forces and allies, and would be much less likely to go to war against Moscow than Clinton would. He declares that he would be “evenhanded” when it comes to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as opposed to Clinton’s boundless support of Israel). He’s opposed to calling Senator John McCain a “hero”, because he was captured. (What other politician would dare say a thing like that?)
He calls Iraq “a complete disaster”, condemning not only George W. Bush but the neocons who surrounded him. “They lied. They said there were weapons of mass destruction and there were none. And they knew there were none. There were no weapons of mass destruction.”. . .
The whole essay may be found at the link.
*Any part of this report may be disseminated without permission, provided attribution to William Blum as author and a link to williamblum.org is provided.
Trump opposes just about everything neolibcon and idiots call him Stalin?Hitler? while the serial lying MSM memes them on.Total idiocy.
You couldn’t make it up,the self hate of some.
This evil woman,Cruz and Rubio are all warmongering scum far worse than he,but nothing is said.
The violence meme,all over the MSM,and it wasn’t Trump or his supporters.being violent.What a joke.Hopefully Americans see through the divide and conquer ideologues fall for, every time.
Hellary is easy to hate for ANY number of reasons. She is indeed a Corpserate Whore who willing kowtows to those she connects to through mutual advantaging.
Compare her Estate’s size, the foundation of that Estate, her solitary child’s connections, the beneficiaries of her favors, etc. to Sanders.
She does not deserve to sit as the Chief Exec unless you actually think this Elitist shitbag, who has varied her positions as the winds of profit changed, has a sincere bone in that worm-like ego structure.
Hellary has never used her taskings to benefit the commoners and you can put a very large period on this.
Give me the double ugh and twin thumbs down on this person. For those of you who think her vagina determines things, just remember she had problems either using it properly or she should have dumped our most recent Casanova In Chief.
Poor choices reign over her and her candidacy.
Historian William Blum published an on-line essay in which he contemplates The Electoral Choice from Hell* in a general election featuring Clinton and Trump.
Blum explains his choice between the warmonger and the demagogue:
. . .beginning with a hard look at Clinton’s many “accomplishments”:
The question of Zelaya was anything but moot. Latin American leaders, the United Nations General Assembly, and other international bodies vehemently demanded his immediate return to office. Washington, however, quickly resumed normal diplomatic relations with the new right-wing police state, and Honduras has since become a major impetus for the child migrants currently pouring into the United States.
The headline from Time magazine’s report on Honduras at the close of that year (December 3, 2009) summed it up as follows: “Obama’s Latin America Policy Looks Like Bush’s”.
And Hillary Clinton looks like a conservative. And has for many years; going back to at least the 1980s, while the wife of the Arkansas governor, when she strongly supported the death-squad torturers known as the Contras, who were the empire’s proxy army in Nicaragua. . .
And what do we have in 2016? Fully 116 members of the Republican Party’s national security community, many of them veterans of Bush administrations, have signed an open letter threatening that, if Trump is nominated, they will all desert, and some will defect – to Hillary Clinton! “Hillary is the lesser evil, by a large margin,” says Eliot Cohen of the Bush II State Department. Cohen helped line up neocons to sign the “Dump-Trump” manifesto. Another signer, foreign-policy ultra-conservative author Robert Kagan, declared: “The only choice will be to vote for Hillary Clinton.”
The only choice? What’s wrong with Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate? … Oh, I see, not conservative enough.
And Mr. Trump? Much more a critic of US foreign policy than Hillary or Bernie. He speaks of Russia and Vladimir Putin as positive forces and allies, and would be much less likely to go to war against Moscow than Clinton would. He declares that he would be “evenhanded” when it comes to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as opposed to Clinton’s boundless support of Israel). He’s opposed to calling Senator John McCain a “hero”, because he was captured. (What other politician would dare say a thing like that?)
He calls Iraq “a complete disaster”, condemning not only George W. Bush but the neocons who surrounded him. “They lied. They said there were weapons of mass destruction and there were none. And they knew there were none. There were no weapons of mass destruction.”. . .
Worth a read imho.
*Any part of this report may be disseminated without permission, provided attribution to William Blum as author and a link to williamblum.org is provided.
Greenwald anti Clinton, anti American propaganda continues:
Henry Kissinger: “War Criminal” .
This is from the same guy who constantly demands due process from the US even when targeting Al Qaeda, Al Shabab fighters with drones and even when the use of force is fully in accordance with US and International laws. Not a single court has found Henry Kissinger guilty of war crimes. Not in the US and not in the countries in which those crimes were perpetrated.
“the sadistic and senseless embargo of Cuba”
The Cuban Constitution guarantees freedom of the full freedom and dignity of men, [and] the enjoyment of their rights…” These include the freedom of expression and press, the right to a competent tribunal and legal defense, the right to assemble, protest, and associate.
But Article 62 of the same constitution:
None of the rights recognized for citizens may be exercised against that which is established in the Constitution and the laws, nor against the existence and the ends of the socialist state, nor against the decision of the Cuban people to construct socialism and communism
The Cuban Constitution makes it illegal to use freedom of speech, freedom of assembly…against the Communist Party.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/11/18/new-castro-same-cuba/political-prisoners-post-fidel-era
You would think an anti American who spends most of his time complaining about the US support for despots would somehow find it okay that the US is not dealing with a despot although that policy is completely inconsistent.
That is the irrationality of anti Americans like Greenwald:
We should not assume those killed by the US in Somalia, Yemen…are criminals because due process was not done.
Due process was not done, but Henry Kissinger is a war criminal.
It is unacceptable for the US to have normal relations with human rights violators such as Israel, Saudi Arabia…
It is unacceptable for the US not to have normal relations with human rights violators such as Cuba.
It is not irrational anymore, it is pathetic.
truth&Freedom — i suspect you have not spent much time in Cuba or Nicaragua or Latin America generally? Let me ask you this: what would be your strategy if 90 miles from your shores the greatest criminal organisation in the world was doing its utmost to colonise you? If elections can be bought, media can be bought (as we discovered in the late 1980s in Nicaragua)…and yet you had a popular mandate to remain ‘un-colonised’…. what would be your strategy? If you have spent any time in Cuba you will realise that ‘La Revolucion Cubana’ remains popular. In the US, on the other hand, the general population is largely moderate to progressive, yet the political establishment does not represent this fact. You tell me where the democracy lies
“La Revolucion Cubana’ remains popular.”
Venezuela, Equator, Bolivia, Nicaragua, have all ELECTED anti capitalist governments. If the communist party is so popular, then all it has to do is hold elections and allow everybody to challenge its policies. It is quite weird that a party is so popular that it makes it illegal to even question it’s policies.
I’ve probably asked this before: Area you actually this much of an idiot? The problem — obviously — is not that the US is “not dealing” with a despot. The problem is the criminal embargo, which you fail to address. You can oppose and criticize the politics and constitutions of other countries all you want, but what gives you the right to use force to make then acquire your values?
“but what gives you the right to use force to make then acquire your values?”
In that particular case you are the idiot.The embargo is not criminal and it is not force. It is an elected government telling a non elected despotic government that its country will not have normal relations with it. This is exactly what you and Greenwald has been asking the US to do with Israel. You prove again how stupid you are. Your argument makes it okay for the US to have normal relations for all the despots in the world including the ones in South America. This is after most of your comments were aimed at US normal relations with those despots.
You admit that Americas actions are not consistent at all, which is precisely the argument being made.
Iran had democracy, Chile had democracy and you helped destroy them. Saddam was good, then bad, then good, then bad again. Same with Qaddafi , back and forth. Assad is bad but the house of Saud are just peachy? What happened when the Arab spring came to Bahrain? Suharto was okay but the Sandinista’s was not?
This have nothing to do with right, wrong, morals, the constitution nor freedom. The only common thread is what serves the interests of the American elite. It’s imperialism and it’s just WRONG!
An embargo is actually defined by international law as an act of war. What did Cuba ever do to you? It dared to be communist? What gives you and your country the right to tell other people how organize their countries and to live their lives? You live on a island, it’s easy to defend so stay HOME FFS!
First, an embargo is not an act of war. I think you are confusing embargo with blockade.
“What did Cuba ever do to you? It dared to be communist? What gives you and your country the right to tell other people how organize their countries and to live their lives?”
These are ridiculous questions. Nobody has the right to tell you how to live your life, but you do not have the right to tell me with whom I deal. It seems to you that the elected Chavez or Morales can decide they will not deal with capitalist governments, but the elected Bush does not have the right to decide they will not deal with a communist government. You can be a communist, anarchist…whatever you want. This is your right. But it is also my right to decide whether I deal with you or not.
Historian William Blum published an on-line essay today in which he contemplates The Electoral Choice from Hell* in a general election featuring Clinton and Trump.
Blum explains his choice between the warmonger and the demagogue:
. . .beginning with a hard look at Clinton’s many “accomplishments”:
The question of Zelaya was anything but moot. Latin American leaders, the United Nations General Assembly, and other international bodies vehemently demanded his immediate return to office. Washington, however, quickly resumed normal diplomatic relations with the new right-wing police state, and Honduras has since become a major impetus for the child migrants currently pouring into the United States.
The headline from Time magazine’s report on Honduras at the close of that year (December 3, 2009) summed it up as follows: “Obama’s Latin America Policy Looks Like Bush’s”.
And Hillary Clinton looks like a conservative. And has for many years; going back to at least the 1980s, while the wife of the Arkansas governor, when she strongly supported the death-squad torturers known as the Contras, who were the empire’s proxy army in Nicaragua. . .
And what do we have in 2016? Fully 116 members of the Republican Party’s national security community, many of them veterans of Bush administrations, have signed an open letter threatening that, if Trump is nominated, they will all desert, and some will defect – to Hillary Clinton! “Hillary is the lesser evil, by a large margin,” says Eliot Cohen of the Bush II State Department. Cohen helped line up neocons to sign the “Dump-Trump” manifesto. Another signer, foreign-policy ultra-conservative author Robert Kagan, declared: “The only choice will be to vote for Hillary Clinton.”
The only choice? What’s wrong with Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate? … Oh, I see, not conservative enough.
And Mr. Trump? Much more a critic of US foreign policy than Hillary or Bernie. He speaks of Russia and Vladimir Putin as positive forces and allies, and would be much less likely to go to war against Moscow than Clinton would. He declares that he would be “evenhanded” when it comes to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as opposed to Clinton’s boundless support of Israel). He’s opposed to calling Senator John McCain a “hero”, because he was captured. (What other politician would dare say a thing like that?)
He calls Iraq “a complete disaster”, condemning not only George W. Bush but the neocons who surrounded him. “They lied. They said there were weapons of mass destruction and there were none. And they knew there were none. There were no weapons of mass destruction.”. . .
*Any part of this report may be disseminated without permission, provided attribution to William Blum as author and a link to williamblum.org is provided.
My apologies for the triple-posting of the Blum article; that was unintentional.
I want to express some serious thankyou’s for this highly informative insightful article report on someone whom i was once a sort-of-fan of. I did harbor some skepticism because of the nafta shaftola, rationalizing that no deal is perfect. WELL SCRATCH THAT!
What a fool i was. FOOL NO MORE. Thanks again.
So you’re saying he’s a hypocrite with respect to Henry kissingers war crimes and Obama’s war crimes? , (that’s just stupid ) And that makes Grenwald anti American ?
There’s a lot more evidence for kissinger being a war criminal then there is evidence for the group of 150 people just killed being war criminals . Anyways you’re a fucking troll I don’t know why I’m even bothering with you.
Um, what she should be criticizing is Sanders’ position vis-a-vis the Saudi state, or any number of Middle Eastern imperialist adventures:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/27/foreign-policy-sanders-style-backing-saudi-intervention/
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/02/16/blood-traces-bernies-iraq-war-hypocrisy/
Or more generally his inability to take on the MIC or to engage in true socialism (i.e., internationalism). He can’t seem to escape a kind of old-school democratic nationalism:
https://roarmag.org/essays/whose-lives-matter-bernie-sanders/
Of course, Clinton can’t effect this kind of critique of Sanders because her platform is ABSOLUTELY morally bankrupt and hopelessly embedded within the power structures of global capital. It has its own plantation for god’s sake:
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/325895-haiti-presidential-elections-clinton/
But don’t worry, even if the Clinton Foundation’s Haiti business venture is (in it) for (the) profit, it’s really looking out for Haitians. It’s called charity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g
So, no, Clinton has no ground to critique Sanders. But you know who can? Jill Stein.
Vote for Sanders in the primary and then try to convince as many people as possible to go Green in the federal election.
And please don’t stop caring after the elections are over. The real revolution won’t come in a ballot box.
You know why I like Bernie sanders. That part you said at the end about revolution not coming in a ballot box, Bernie makes sure to tell people that at every rally. I’ve never thought he was perfect, but I just can’t help but feel that he is actually trying to lead a movement to mobilize people. Not lead a movement to put his butt into a chair in the Oval Office, like The one Hillary is leading.
I believe Bernie will get the nomination, and he will go on to be our 45th President, likely in a landslide.
The man is exemplary in all he does; he simply sees neither color, race, or religious affiliation, he simply sees people all joined and working together for the good of all.
On the other hand, Hillary is a charlatan extraordinaire, caring only about Hillary and how much more treasure she can garner from her elitist backers, to fill her already overflowing treasure chests.
America is poised for the first time in several decades to be become a nation that truly represents all of the people, all of the time, instead of the Plutocratic Oligarchy it currently is.
Thank God the people are finally waking up; I had all but resigned myself to the thought our Democracy was dead, waiting to be buried.
Everyone must vote this time, get out and show these truly evil people we will not take it anymore, and if they try any shenanigans, the pitchforks are being sharpened, and made ready for use.
“I believe Bernie will get the nomination”
Unfortunately, that will never happen. The party-faithful ‘super delegates’ will make sure of that.
Democracy my ass…
Lin, you believe the super delegates have already voted then? that there is no room for change of vote if Bernie gets the popular nomination? maybe check out what happened with their votes when Hillary ran against Obama. your remarks sound more like Hillary trolls’ than Bernie supporters’.
That’s a false analogy. Clinton and Obama were both establishment candidates, Sanders is not. In fact, Sanders is exactly the kind of candidate that the super delegates were meant to prevent from getting the nomination. The last time a non-establishment candidate got it was George McGovern, and the establishment set up the super delegates to make sure that doesn’t happen again (they also refused to support McGovern’s campaign, leading to a landslide win by Nixon in what otherwise would have been a close race, if not a win for McGovern and the people and land of Vietnam).
they always vote with the people. It would one of the most foolish things ever for the establishment to do. I this climate to just tell the people no. I don’t think they’re interested in finding out how well the guillotines are oiled up.
Times have changed.
He reason the super delegates exist is to make people say shit like you did right there. They’ve never actually swung an election away from the people. Here just there to make it look like one candidate has no chance as to coerce people into voting for what’s “inevitable” stop helping the establishment and believe in change.
Trish Regan – “Why do you believe socialism is a violation of basic human rights?”
people watching FOX news is like the blind leading the blind. This segment is pretty funny…”the Intelligence Report” invites on Thor Halvorssen to explain Bernie Sanders’ “socialist agenda”:
“….to get away from getting too bogged down by the details here….”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5chvH69P1M
Try to watch this video and at the same time keep in mind that this woman won the “Most Outstanding Young Broadcast Journalist Under 30 Award from the Northern California Society of Professional Journalists” for her work at CBS “MarketWatch.”
Trish Regan: Socialism Does Not Work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGESG0djZS8
former beauty queen, married to an investment banker, and she’s on television addressing Bernie Sanders, claiming that she “understands” socialism better than Sanders, better than his supporters…and that it “does not work”.
the entire u.s. military and contractors and subcontractors and elected supporters is one giant socialist state.
Sanders on C-SPAN in 88 on creating a “New Democratic Party”
alternatively…you could get lots of people to send 27 dollars and run as a Democrat.
It’s remarkable how little his message has changed. He positions haven’t changed, it’s just that America if finally starting to catch up to him.
It’s unbelievable…he’s using the expression “the one percent” in 1988..which is only now coming into fashion.
Here’s another scandalous quote from Mayor Sanders (Clinton was not yet running for president…but he might as well have been talking about her)
“america is not a planet”
– marco rubio
And no island is a man… Rubio is an isolationist.
*is that you, jonjon? (there was a poster on Glenn’s threads back in the Salon days named John Anderson. Crazy sum-bitch … so I liked him right off.)
well i was permanently banned from the internet but then there was some sort of general amnesty due to the needs of porn marketers
Where does he stand on Pluto?
“if drafted, i will not run, if elected i will not serve … as emperor of pluto”
-donald trump
Whatever happened to John Kerry, anyway?
Today:
The poor US soldiers, John Kerry makes it clear that while the Americans were the ones taping wires to people’s genitals, it was the Americans who have suffered.
Just as now, as secretary of state, nobody will suffer more than Kerry when “quiet” cruise missiles go off in Syria.
For Obama, it’s a resource issue, it’s not that lessons have been learned, it’s that America has reached it’s limit, as he sees it, of sustainable aggression, as soon as the number of troops can be reduced sufficiently in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere…Where do we invade next!!!
Obama – What is it with these people?!, the rules are very simple, I wash, they dry, I bomb a country into a refugee producing anarchy, and they deal with the aftermath!
Why do some American minorities support Trump? Well for one thing, he hasn’t actually DONE, anything to them, he’s talked a good game, but, Trump didn’t torture people, Bush did. Trump didn’t destroy Libya, Obama did that. Trump didn’t militarise the Ferguson police, poison the Flint water, bail out Wall Street fraudsters…etc
trump said peace in the middle east would be the “deal of his lifetime”, which sounded at least like an attempt to address human rights at the level of normal human understanding
sanders and Hillary have more or less the status quo approach re israel and the palestinians
It is hilarious that Trump, if he wins the Republican nomination, will win DESPITE his Palestine-Israel position.
– ‘LINDA SARSOUR: The irony of the exchanges in the Republican debate about Palestine-Israel is that Donald Trump comes off the most reasonable. “
Interesting analysis from Daniel Larison: Syria Hawks Were Completely Wrong About the “Red Line” and Ukraine
Clear what the immediate Clintonite rebuttal to that article is…it’s based on quotes from Russian officials…liars working for a bad country.
From your link:
“…….The source from the Foreign Ministry echoed that sentiment. The action Obama did take—avoiding a strike on Syria and instead forging a deal with Russia to get rid of Assad’s chemical weapons—represented not weakness but an unusual moment of reason, in Moscow’s view [bold mine-DL]. “It showed everyone in the world that, if there is a will in these two countries, any problem can be solved,” the Foreign Ministry source said. “It was very constructive work. … Everything was done to help the administration get out of the corner they’d backed themselves into and to get them back into the zone of international law.”……”
You see how hilarious this analysis is Mona? Of course the Russians tried to make Obama look good (“help the administration”). Except the Russians then brought their military into Syria bombing hospitals, killing innocent people and creating even more refugees. Instead of focusing on ISIS which was the stated reason for their use of fighter bombers, they bombed the Syrian rebels. The Russians made complete fools of Obama – and yes, you could make the case, it was because of Obama’s weak leadership. Russia took full advantage.
“……Attacking Syria would have soured U.S.-Russian relations even more in 2013, and would have made Moscow even more suspicious of Western intentions toward its clients…..”
Toward its clients? Actually, toward its client state is far more accurate – and its been that way since at least WWII which is why there was a revolution to depose the Russian puppet. Russia treats Ukraine as within its sphere of influence (client state), thus the continuing war and destabilization policy toward Ukraine. Greenwald in an early post at the Intercept effectively recognized Russia’s sphere of influence ( a cold war idea).
You make it sound very simple – America = good guy, Russia = bad guy. Let’s take the Ukraine situation first. Russia regards the motherland almost as a sacred being and after what Russians have gone through in the last two hundred years, you can’t really blame them. In the last one hundred years, either their own government or the Nazis have killed millions of the Russian population and Russians still bear the scars. By comparison, the USA has been spoon-fed.
Try to put yourself in Russia’s position. If the US sponsors a coup in the country next door, should you be concerned? Now, where is the Russian threat to the US, apart from inside the fevered minds of people like Ashton Carter?
On Syria: When you write about 2013, I’m presuming you refer to the gas attacks in Ghouta of August that year. In that context, you have to remember that jihadists had already been caught twice with either sarin gas, or its precursors, and so the fact that jihadists had access to the stuff cannot be in dispute. You also have to remember Obama’s “red line” on chemical weapons and that here was a golden opportunity for a false flag attack.
The attack in Ghouta came at a time when UN inspectors were in close proximity to the affected area. They were therefore able to get there quickly and assess the situation. In their subsequent report, they could find no evidence to suggest the Syrian government had used chemical weapons in Ghouta. It was subsequently claimed, by two Turkish former members of parliament, that the gas used at Ghouta had come through Turkey and handed to the jihadists.
What wasn’t made largely public at that time was the fact that the US and some of its allies had their fleets in the Mediterranean, in preparation for an all-out attack on Syria’s infrastructure, should Obama’s red line be crossed. The Ghouta gas attack provided the justification. What saved the situation was that doubt was expressed in some quarters – including US intelligence and military circles – that the Syrian government had been responsible. Obama then called off his planned attack with literally minutes to spare.
Had that attack gone ahead in August 2013, the world may have become a far different place. Between the US and coalition fleets and the Syrian cost were a number of Russian and Chinese warships and who knows what the reaction might have been to missiles heading towards their ally.
“……You make it sound very simple – America = good guy, Russia = bad guy……”
In Ukraine, it is fairly simple: Russia is the bad guy. There is no good guy. Russia treats Ukraine like they are within some imaginary sphere of influence – and they have dominated their affairs since WWII. It was only a matter of time before Ukrainians kicked the Russian puppet out of Ukraine and back to Russia where he resides today.
Most of the rest of your post is on a single gas attack in Ghouta. Nothing I read in Wikipedia corroborates any part of your story. Obama was just minutes away from launching sounds like you have been watching to much MI5 (or reading too much Antiwar.com). Here is what Human Rights Watch says:
“…….Human Rights Watch reported that two types of rockets were used: in Western Ghouta, a 140mm rocket made in the Soviet Union in 1967 and exported to Syria;[1](p5) and in Eastern Ghouta, a 330mm rocket of unknown origin.[1](p9) HRW also reported that at the time of the attack, Syrian rebels were not known to be in possession of the rockets used.[1](p20)[151]…..”
According to the UN report:
“……But more importantly the two types of rocket used – a Russian-supplied 140mm system and especially the larger 330mm weapon of unknown origin – are significant since according to both Human Rights Watch and a number of independent arms experts – these are weapons that have only been observed in use by Syrian government forces during this conflict……”
and
“…..However, in some cases the inspectors were able to make an assessment of the likely trajectory of the rockets and this again seems to corroborate US claims that they came from areas controlled by government forces…..”
Thanks.
definitive accurate complete insightful
i mentioned the lack of knowits on russian history the other day and got slapspammed for it. If i can, i will refer them to your post here – brilliant.
also i am going to snap one for my historical references locally.
You and everybody like you was wrong about the Cold War. We — that is, the world –survived it in spite of you.
That you dismiss Daniel Larison’s analysis as “hilarious” means it’s likely spot on. Also because it’s Daniel Larison — who has been right about almost everything foreign-policy related since 9/11.
“……That you dismiss Daniel Larison’s analysis as “hilarious” means it’s likely spot on…….”
Painful Mona. I will have to read more of his work. He was not very impressive this time. I did notice that he never mentioned the Russian bombing campaign in Syria. Maybe he has a follow-up story?
“……Also because it’s Daniel Larison — who has been right about almost everything foreign-policy related since 9/1….”
I have no idea what he has written since 911. Does he live in Russia?
Thanks.
@ Craig
I really like the way you channel Sterling Hayden doing Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove. Spot on. What sort of preparation do you do as an actor to get yourself into the mindset of a paranoid ultra nationalist that is crazier than a shit house rat? Drugs? Check yourself into the local sanitarium for a month’s worth of “therapy”? Either way I’m diggin it man. Funny shit.
Hi rr. Great to hear from you.
Stand-up is my gig and I can’t possibly get better material than provided by the above and below the line commentators at the Intercept.
Thanks rr.
Russia is doing the same thing to Ukraine as israel is doing to Palestine. The u.s. has NO CREDIBILITY.
Hey, I think there’s an image missing, unless it’s my system. Right after the first colon (ie, “…in other words, these Clinton-defending Democrats sounded very much like this:”
Hey Sanders! After we spend all this money on underground Israeli projects….where’s the money going to come from for all your pie in the sky fantasies!!!
When you are holding millions of people under military rule…and you are struggling to stop women with scissors….maybe designing the next Iron Dome…or Death Star…is not the answer.
Ah yes, people that are too “illegal’ to give them the vote, to give them citizenship, but reality, and the desire for an exploitable labour pool, asserts itself. Americans are all to familiar with this dynamic.
I hear that the next Israeli law is going to make it an offence for Palestinians to frown. Showing unhappiness with the occupation will be equated with terrorist incitement.
When are Palestinians going put down the cameras and microphones and turn to non-violent means of accepting the occupation?
Alas, the bots will never be persuaded.
I used to say, when Bush was in office, that he’d have to go up in plane and personally bomb American cities, to convince his supporters of who he truly was — and even then they would defend him. Now I say similar things about Obamabots and Hillbots. All the evidence in the world won’t make a dent.
“…when Bush was in office, that he’d have to go up in plane and personally bomb American cities,…”
So, he didn’t?
Oh, okay…
Maybe it’s my wistful loyalty to my former home (Honduras) speaking here, but I think this is nne of the finest, most important things you’ve ever written, Glenn. And given how much you’ve written–and how much of what you’ve written I have read–that’s really saying something. Muchas, pero muchissimas, gracias. D.
A perfect intervention. Thank you for posting this. In particular, I am glad to see Mr Greenwald is making logical connection between Clinton’s “penchant” for WEALTHY dictators (not all dictators are rich, although they are surely richer than their people they oppress) and suspicious (or very obvious, although the corporate media try to ignore) connection between her tenure as the Secretary of State and the Clinton Foundation overseas connections (money in favors out). This is an extremely corrupt woman we are looking at and I am not interested in voting for her, since that, in principle, will not be so different from voting for Donald Trump. Down the road, there may be a question whether to write in Sanders, but we still have to see. Thank you, Glenn Greenwald, for being the voice of honest, serious, and principled journalism.
Maybe Hillary should run for office in Brazil where they might more fully appreciate her ties to Wall Street and big business. In a shocking story, the founder of the Workers’ Party and former President of Brazil, has been indicted on corruption charges. According to the state operated New York Times:
“……….RIO DE JANEIRO — Prosecutors in Brazil are seeking the arrest of the country’s former president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva……state prosecutors in São Paulo filed charges against him in a related corruption case and now want him arrested…..Born into grinding poverty, Mr. da Silva worked as a shoeshine boy before landing a job at a screw factory. From those humble origins, he rose to the presidency, presiding over a frenetic economic boom and leaving office as one of the world’s most popular leaders, with approval ratings higher than 80 percent…….
…….Instead of symbolizing Brazil’s triumphs, he is emerging as an emblem of the scandal-plagued political establishment…….
………Mr. da Silva…….is the founder and face of the Workers’ Party, the leftist movement that has governed Brazil since 2003. It came to power vowing to represent the masses and stamp out the corruption and impunity that had long characterized the country’s ruling classes……..
………Now, Mr. da Silva’s handpicked successor, President Dilma Rousseff, is fighting to remain in office, fending off impeachment proceedings on charges of using money from state banks to cover budget shortfalls. Confidants of Mr. da Silva are in jail on charges of cashing in from billions in bribes surrounding the state-controlled oil company, Petrobras……..
………The core of Mr. da Silva’s troubles involves his close ties to some of Brazil’s most powerful business leaders, including figures imprisoned on corruption charges in a vast scandal engulfing Petrobras, the national oil company, in which investigators say nearly $3 billion in bribes were paid…….
……..“Lula’s dealings with construction tycoons and ranchers have nothing in common with his militant origins as a leftist,” said Marcelo Rubens Paiva, a columnist for the newspaper O Estado de S. Paulo. “He was hanging out with figures that comrades on the left should be combating,” he added. “So, let Lula explain the origins of his assets.”………
………Mr. da Silva has repeatedly insisted that he is innocent of any wrongdoing, assailing the investigations as efforts to smear him and his Workers’ Party…….
………“If there’s one thing I’m proud of in this country, it’s that there is not a living soul more honest than me,” Mr. da Silva said recently. “Not in the Federal Police, or in the Public Ministry, or in evangelical churches.”…….”
Brazil’s peasants must be entirely crushed. Once again, reporting a story you will never read in the left “leaning” Intercept.
Glenn has tweeted a lot about this.
It’s an interesting story.
It is. Tho I’m far more interested in the fascinating political shake-up in the U.S.
Tell your audience which pieces in the Intercept are not progressive left-leaning, other than the provenance of the Intercept’s Real Estate editor Ken Silverman.
I suppose we will just have to wait for the NSA to release all Petrobras private business records to the NYT to get the … rest of the story Craig.
Ha! They are the ones that probably leaked the story to the press in Brazil!
Tedious, amateurish deflection.
That’s right. This might come as a shock, but in countries other than the US, it’s actually possible for former heads of state to be investigated, charged and even convicted of criminal activity. Now, it’s entirely possible Lula is being persecuted, but that’s a separate matter.
Yea that is odd. I’m not sure how anyone would want to run for office under those conditions. To each their own, I guess.
the US recently lost WW3 and either trump or Hillary would be fine to lead the fracking charge to 50 cent per gal gasoline, as well as preside over the psychic reconstruction of the average American karmic meltdown
nobody really cares about either of their respective histories on human rights, which is not a factor in this election where all the tools in the toolbox will be used to examine the known and unknown knowns
Oh she has no idea what she is doing. She is just good at being a puppet, and it is her prowess at that which makes her the darling of the corrupt rich a-holes that have taken over American government.
I was really hoping someone would call out HRC on her longstanding neocon/neoliberal ways. Thanks a lot, Glenn. Brilliant piece.
1097 line items on ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm (the authority) suggest she’s not “neo” anything. She’s a liberal. On ‘health ‘care, on gun control, on Equality, on immigration reform, on Big Government, on Planned Parenthood, on ‘Climate Change,’…. I think you–as well as all of the other progressives embarrassed about a public reminded yet again of the dark underbelly of their historic promotion of fist-raising leftist-militant violent mindedness, and of their Big Government police state rule once they’re politically established–know that.
The only neocons are her progressive leftist confederates across the aisle, Rockefeller Republican adherents of the their movement’s founder, and Bill Kristol’s dad, Irving–author of “Memoirs of a Trotskyist.”
If you find anything that’s not progressive leftist on her campaign announcement, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N708P-A45D0, please call our attention to it. One of the vignettes isn’t even in English.
Read the Atlantic interviews with Obama. We see that, as Secretary of State, she was a neo-neocon who consistently opposed Obama’s hesitation to get involved with Middle East turmoil. It is a kind of militarism that has damaged America’s image everywhere and really damaged its bank account.
Bernie doesn’t want to compromise the Clinton campaign’s chances of winning should he lose the nomination at the hands of the New York Times. Bernie’s already promised to deliver his clueless voters to her in that event.
Bernie can’t “deliver” us to Clinton, and it isn’t clear he’d try. Outlets are reporting that as many as 30% of Bernie voters will not vote for Hillary.
Which is why Hillary will select Bernie as her running mate (if he would accept , that is).
That’s a bit premature conjecture Craig but fyi …I’m confident Hillary would not ask and Bernie would not accept.
I have a tendency (on this rare occasion) to agree with Mona. Just as in Michigan, white working class Americans who may or may not be union members could defect to Trump (if he wins the nomination). There is big danger in alienating this particular section of voting Americans. The best way to keep them voting “Democrat” (or even to motivate them to vote at all) is to have Sanders on the ticket. That is a no brainer. Whether Sanders will sellout or not is a different question.
On principle, he should not accept. By doing that, he’d be aligning himself with the establishment.
It’s hard to argue that Sanders is not establishment, but he is on the fringe of it for sure.
Not buying it from all the “we won’t vote for Hillary” blowhards, quite frankly. They remind me of all the Hillary voters who were going to stay home to punish Obama for some random use of the word “periodic” in the 2008 primaries. Actually staring down the barrel of a Trump Presidency in a general election will be a very different thing from trash-talking during a primary. (And anyone who thinks Sanders is so rabidly “anti-establishment” as to want to throw the election to Trump in the event of his party nominating Hillary is clearly not listening to a thing he says.)
Trump is not bought and paid for.
Trump is not a war monger.
Trump is against free trade agreements.
No brainer.
“Trump is not bought and paid for.”
Nope. He’s one of the scum who does the buying and paying, out for nobody but himself.
“Trump is not a war monger.”
Of course he is. His statements about the Iraq War are hollow, he’s on record as wanting to send armies into Syria after ISIS and being completely okay with assassinating the families of “terrorists.” He’s as bad as any other “establishment” candidate for this, or worse.
“Trump is against free trade agreements.”
Bull. Trump wants to hand over the American economy to his own buddies in Wall Street, all of whom are in favour of free trade agreements.
Don’t even pretend to believe that you believe this shit. All of it falls at the first hurdle. He’s the most brazen con man of all the Republican con men, he’s just out to serve his own ego instead of the Kochs’. If you really believe that’s an improvement — or if you’re one of those who’s just hyped on him because he’s more open about the race hate — then you’re lost.
I’m not exactly a Sanders supporter, but I’m willing to hold my nose and vote for him. However, unless he pulls off a miracle and wins the nomination, I’ll be voting Green in Novemnber like I always do in the presidential race. Clinton would be just as bad as Trump overall — they’re each horrible on different issues — and there’s absolutely no reason for any progressive or radical to vote for her.
Thank you for putting this piece together – I recognized the hipocracy of her statements immediately and hoped someone would expose it. You are AMAZING!!!!
I sure wish Bernie would point some of this out the next time Clinton picks at him about gun control too! Mr. Greenwald you are my hero again!!
Goddamn I loved this piece. I was so frustrated with the whole Castro line of questioning. I couldn’t figure out how Sanders should respond. And then Glenn in his typical fashion comes back with “Oh yeah? You don’t like my face? Here’s a mirror!!”
thanks for the facts Glen! bernie is a man of integrity she’s a neocon and a fraud..
Always better to have a leader who is a bit too cynical over one who is way too naïve. I notice on one on the Left is talking about Venezuela as a model society anymore…
No, He wants western european style as he mentioned many times. Get a real job instead of getting paid by Clintons to spread rumors. Clintons are corrupt and take money from terrorist authoritarian governments like former Egypt’s and current fundamentalist leader of extreme islam, Saudi Fucking Arabia. You make everyone around you dumber by being dumb. If you don’t know actual facts, have a little respect for your own dignity and be silent. Hehe
Let me fix that for you:
Glenn;
Please keep after Hillary, she’s arguably the most corrupt and dishonest candidate running and as we know that’s saying a lot. If you liked Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney, then you’ll love Hillary, despicable person.
Glenn, I hope you read these comments and know how much we treasure your work. One of the few voices speaking truth to power.
You will long outlast all the WaPo and CNN shills.
Nicely done
Wow. Incredible collection of factual examples of HRC and the hawkish corrupt mentality that she embodies. Thank you Mr Greenwald
Here are pictures of Hillary Clinton with one of Gaddafi’s son. The pictures were taken at Hillary Clinton’s office at the State Department, a few weeks before the popular uprising that led to the overthrow of Gaddafi. This son in particular — his name is Mutassim — was notorious for his brutal and savage ways.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1290&bih=882&q=hillary+clinton+with+gaddafi+son&oq=hillary+clinton+with+gaddafi+son&gs_l=img.12…2331.14508.0.16604.32.13.0.19.19.0.140.1000.10j3.13.0….0…1ac.1.64.img..0.22.1026.manxA0fmoJU#imgrc=qsukDTdreWxBwM%3A
Lets elect Bernie! The entire race now comes down to one day, March 15th. After March 15th Bernie might literally win every state because the map is so favorable to him, but first we have to get past March 15th. If there is anyone you can talk to, any money you can give, any door you can knock on, now is the time. Right now might be the last time we ever get the chance to change America for the better. This revolution counts on the extraordinary efforts of people like you so lets fight! Together we are a force stronger than those that would bind us! What are you willing to do? what can you do for the revolution? That question will have been answered by March 15th, do not let history find you wanting. Here is the link to donate,
https://go.berniesanders.com/page/content/contribute/
Hillary sent this to her supporters today, “But [Bernie Sanders] is still out raising us by large margins, and if that continues, we could see more results like we saw in Michigan last night.” That is like music to my ears. Lets keep it up and outspend the billionaires!
Here is the link to the phone bank,
https://go.berniesanders.com/page/content/phonebank
The only thing more important you can do than call supporters directly, is to go from door to door, which I encourage you to do. Please spread/repost this message, together we are going to take America back!
Thank you guys you are the best!
Sincerely,
Erik Pye
Thank you thank you thank you, Glenn.
Well put.
Glenn makes a subtle but important distinction. That is, Glenn points out that the position held by “liberals” vs. those of Clinton. Not the majority Democratic party vs. Clinton. But given the actions of Obama/Bill Clinton, and foreign policy as expressed through Hillary Clinton’s tenure as Secretary of State, it is indeed the policy of the Democratic party to support tyrants (when they are in office). Hillary just made it personally lucrative.
that and the infection that diane feinstein has and the one that barbara boxer recently caught convinces me that term limits do more good than harm. Starting with one term only might have the effect of encouraging everyone to get something done.
Mr. Greenwald
“……It seems that, overnight, Clinton and her supporters have decided that Sanders’ opposition to Reagan-era wars against Latin American governments and rebel groups — a common liberal position at the time — is actually terribly wrong and something worthy of demonization rather than admiration, because those governments and groups abused human rights…..”
You are joking, right? Since when do human rights abuses by “groups” bother you? You certainly didn’t show any concern for the brutal murders by al-Shabaab in your article yesterday. They qualify as a group don’t they? There was not a single word outlining what they have done – like the murder of 147 students in Kenya. There was no compassion for the Jews targeted during the Charlie Hebdo murders. In fact, there was no mention of it anywhere in the Intercept by any journalist. That would be a standard liberal position.
You certainly have not shown any compassion for the victims of Russian bombings in eastern Ukraine or Syria despite the fact they have bombed hospitals. There has rarely been a word of compassion for those people. This also used to be “standard liberal positions”. When a dictator used barrel bombs and chemical weapons on innocent people, it used to be a “standard liberal position” to condemn such violence. When people were protesting for political rights and were brutally crushed by a military assault, it used to be a standard liberal position to condemn the regime. The Intercept has been missing in action on those fronts.
Human rights mean something to you when it is politically convenient. Standard liberal positions are for people who are liberal because they care about ALL people. You can bash Hillary all you want, but you are no liberal, Mr. Greenwald.
Craig! You wrote something accurate!111!!!1!
As for the rest of your continued whataboutery, meh.
“…….Craig! You wrote something accurate!111!!!1!……”
My guess is that Greenwald does think of himself as a liberal – at least on some issues. Unfortunately, political considerations supersede his liberal/human rights side. That of course is one distinguishing characteristic of the radical left. They are not liberals.
Thanks Mona.
When political considerations supersede human rights you know you’ve met an unethical activist…whether it’s an activist journalist or politician.
Ethical activists are activists because they care about human, animal, and/or environmental rights. Other “political considerations” are an excuse for selfish, myopic tribalism of one sort or another. On the right or the left it’s dangerous. In the worst instances, Stalin or Pol Pot dangerous. In lesser yet still disturbing human rights abuse advocacy…Fidel Castro dangerous.
Nope. Glenn has never been a Democrat. Or a Republican. Those folks are, most of them, masters at it.
I don’t mean Democrat or Republican Mona. I mean a liberal. Generally Democrats are liberals or lean that way (Wikipedia):
“…..Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Whereas classical liberalism and European liberalism prioritise liberty, American liberalism and social liberalism stress equality.[4] ………Prominent revolutionaries in the Glorious Revolution, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of what they saw as tyrannical rule……”
>”Craig! You wrote something accurate!111!!!1!”
Lucky guess.
*Craig wouldn’t know the difference between an Al Shabaab and a “Shish Kabob” at a backyard BBQ.
I’ve been embarrassed on numerous occasions by the confusion.
More like an accident borne of ignorance.
How long have you been reading Greenwald? Do you really think he somehow approves of everything you accuse him of? This is the same attack that Chomsky constantly gets. If you have noticed, Greenwald goes after the most powerful Americans as they have the power to let’s say bomb Libya. I say, right on. As an American, I don’t have influence over the tyrants of other countries. But I can raise my voice against American elected leaders for what they do and how they empower the tyrants of the word.
Well, you sure have done a hell of lot of good. Look how much it has helped.
How about disputing what is in the article? If your point is that GG exercises preference in choosing what he writes about, then you really got him!
“…….How about disputing what is in the article? If your point is that GG exercises preference in choosing what he writes about, then you really got him!……”
Greenwald wrote about “standard liberal positions” and I helped expand the definition to topics he refuses to cover. I understand that he can’t cover every topic, but I thought that is why he hired 30 other journalists. I just had no idea that he was going to hire 30 mirrors of himself. He did mention in a conversation with Bill Kelly of the New York Times:
“…….As for whether our new venture will be ideologically homogenized: the answer is “definitely not.” We welcome and want anyone devoted to true adversarial journalism regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, and have already been speaking with conservatives journalists like that: real conservatives, not the East Coast rendition of “conservatives” such as David Brooks. Our driving ideology is accountability journalism grounded in rigorous factual accuracy…….”
Regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum? I know it’s still early in the life of the Intercept, but he has the far left end of the spectrum covered beautifully – just nothing else.
You did not dispute the content, you simply restated your dislike for the content.
Who did you have in mind for the “real conservative” journalist? Why don’t you suggest some names.
Where else other than here and a few other sites does the far left get any press? Certainly NOT CNN, MSNBC and the other reportedly liberal media outlets whichas FOX, pander to the 1%’ers.
“…….Where else other than here and a few other sites does the far left get any press?…..”
They get plenty of press in Europe, but – as you suggest – they are far from the mainstream in the right leaning US press.
This is “far left press”??? Oh sorry, I forgot. “Far left” in the American definition starts at Ghengis Khan and heads to the right from there.
You guys really have to let go of the “communist menace” and get up to date. You could also use a little humanity, get the fuck out of other peoples’ countries and stop starting wars everywhere. Just a suggestion.
Nah. To my knowledge there are no Marxists on the staff of the Intercept. If TI could get Andrew Bacevich to write from the right, that’d be awesome.
I agree that Bacovich would be an excellent addition to the staff at the Intercept, but just hiring someone that you agree with is really not what I had in mind. The hiring practices of the Intercept are “predictable”, Mona.
Charlie Pierce at Esquire squares off on “the Monroe Doctrine” and fires a heat seeking missile at his electric tee vee…
Go read the whole thing and grab a quick history refresher.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a42903/democratic-debate-miami/
clinton is a warmongering, negative liberty neocon of the first order. leo strauss would be proud. intervention in ukraine, libya and syria all happened under her watch.
“……intervention in ukraine, libya and syria all happened under her watch….”
Certainly Libya was a US intervention, but there was no intervention by the US in Ukraine and the US was very slow to intervene in Syria waiting two years before bombing ISIS.
And the interventions were under Obama’s watch since the buck stops there.
It was not a US military intervention, but it was an intervention.
President Obama, in an interview with CNN (in January I think), admitted as much – specifically pointing to the US role in removing Yanukovych from power.
“…….President Obama, in an interview with CNN (in January I think), admitted as much – specifically pointing to the US role in removing Yanukovych from power…..”
Maybe you can point me toward a source on that?
Thanks.
I do not remember the exact date and time. It was an interview with Fareed Zakaria, and during the discussion Mr. Obama mentioned how he had brokered a deal to remove Yanukovych from power.
Sometime in the future, if you run across that source, I would be interested in reading it. Of course, if the US had that kind of power, Putin would be the first to go. There was a huge amount of discontent in Ukraine which was heavily influenced by decades of Soviet domination and subjugation of the Ukrainian people.
Yanukovych was a Russian puppet. And you can just about bet your first born that Russian intelligence operatives were all over Ukraine to prevent the revolution in progress. Certainly the CIA was on the ground as well. The political conditions were ripe for the overthrow. Even if the US was agitating the protesters, the conditions were created long ago for this revolution to occur. So the US didn’t overthrow anyone in my opinion. That was blowback from a previous era in much the same way as the leftist understandably rode to victory in South and Central America from US interference in their cold war sphere of influence (as pointed out in this article).
Thanks.
Yeah sure, other than the extreme nationalists and nazis that Victoria Nuland bragged about spending 5 billion dollars to support in a violent coup. Slow to intervene in Syria other than the open use of jihadis and mercenaries supported and bankrolled and armed by the CIA Along with Washington’s violent client dictatorships in Ankara and Riyadh.
I am adapting the following from part of Elvis Costello’s
message to Thatcher
“Tramp the Dirt Down”
…When the U.S. was the whore of the world
Hillary was its Madame
and the future was as bright and as clear
as the black tarmacadam
Well, I hope that she sleeps well at night,
isn’t haunted by every tiny detail,
but when she held that lovely face in her hands
all she thought of was betrayal.
And now the cynical ones say that “it all ends the same
in the long run.”
Try telling THAT to the desperate father
who just squeezed the life from his only son
and how its only voices in your head and
dreams you’ve never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference
between justice and contempt
Just like a schoolboy whose head’s like a tin pail
filled up with dreams, then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides,
being blown to bits and beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame?
Well, I hope you live long now,
I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think I’ll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
But when they finally put you in the ground,
we’ll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down.
My problem with the story is it’s filled with words like “Hillarybot” and etc etc… I can’t share it to facebook because of that. It’s clear to me that this is another time Hillary is exactly what she complains about. She has supported these banana republics and hasn’t been pro democracy for her corporatist interest. The clinton supporters won’t hear it because of the tone of the Article. It’s written like a hateful facebook comment but roughly correct.
Please point out the “filled with” and please elaborate and specify what your idea of “etc etc…” is. There are two uses of the word “Hillarybot,” and those are both by Scahill, not Greenwald the author of the article.
How is it that an article which links to many of Clinton’s own words, and simply points out fact after fact, is, to you, “written like a hateful facebook comment?” How is one supposed to — or why would one attempt to — write an article which is about bringing death and destruction to various locals around the world write an article which would be pleasing to defenders of the person who, due to their position of power, is very much responsible for the ravages mentioned in the article?
the whole thing is obviated by “sense of mind”
That’s because the use of that word was contained in a quote from social media made by scahill. He was addressing it and wanted people to know what he was talking about.
They all support the world’s worst despots! The United States–unparalleled duality and hypocrisy!
They must all be removed from power!
robertsrevolution.net
Hillary Clinton really is breaking down barriers in this campaign as she simultaneously runs on, away from and against her own record of public service, foreign policy in particular.
I wonder if Clinton is going to accuse Sanders next of supporting terrorists for opposing apartheid and urging Nelson Mandela be freed in the 1980s.
I propose a merger of the two parties.
For their presidential ticket:
Clinton/Cruz 2016.
Their campaign slogan:
If you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists.
A single party would be a disaster for horse race journalism.
For cross-over appeal, each party’s nominee could select the other party’s runner up as running mate.
Trump/Sanders vs. Clinton/Cruz.
That’s exactly how it worked before the Jefferson/Burr debacle.
Oh, for those good old days. A single bullet could change the executive’s party.
Where are our originalists now?
And, I might add, make impeachment a welcome alternative.
sanders would be somewhat admirable if he hadn’t call chavez a “dead communist dictator” (a very fox news way to look at it) and said the saudis can save the “soul of islam”. plus israel, of course. not to mention that sweet lockheed blood money back in vermont.
otherwise a great collection of evidence. most of her supporters are too drunk on identity politics to give a damn about any of it, but it could harden the stance of sanders’ voters.
Keep drinking the KOOL AID. I think you will find that Chavez is a dead dictator. I think you will also find that he did not directly say saudis can have the soul of islam, he said islamic countries should form a coalition.
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-isis/
As for lockheed, well he was just making the best for his state out of a decision that had already been made that he objected to.
http://www.ibtimes.com/election-2016-bernie-sanders-conflicting-policies-guns-energy-defense-immigration-2139958
“That might have made the F-35 a prime target for Sanders in his speeches railing against wasteful defense spending and mismanagement as it has been for critics like Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. But the F-35 will be based in Vermont’s Air National Guard Base — which could help maintain jobs in his home state. And so while he has not received campaign cash from F-35 maker Lockheed Martin, Sanders has backed the project.”The F-35 “ has been incredibly wasteful,” Sanders told a New Hampshire audience. “But for better or worse, that is the plane of record right now, and it is not gonna be discarded. That’s the reality.”“He is critical of the Pentagon and its huge spending, but he also says that if we’re going to have those planes, why shouldn’t they be in Vermont?”
Oh throw Bernie and his consituents a bone already. The plane had to go somewhere. At least he can watch over it….and be TRUSTED to do so.
Clinton might get indicted?
Before I comment on Clinton’s legal predicament, remind me, how are attorney general Holder’s prosecutions coming along with those CIA/military people who, you know, tortured people to death? What? Holder has left? No prosecutions? Well I’m a monkey’s uncle!!
It’s almost as if at the highest level, there is political interference in the US legal system.
Once again, GG demonstrates the integrity and thoroughness desperately needed in the world of journalism. Please keep up the good work.
https://medium.com/@williamreynolds/missing-clinton-e-mail-claims-saudis-financed-benghazi-attacks-b471a61b5b2b#.or7d2atje
Nota bene, Reynolds in conclusion:
“This scandal has the potential to completely derail the Clinton campaign …”.
“if the values are that you oppress people, you disappear people, imprison people or even kill people for expressing their opinions, for expressing freedom of speech, that is not the kind of revolution of values that I ever want to see anywhere.” – Hillary Clinton
My stream went out after she made this comment.
Did Hillary Clinton state that she makes exceptions for oppression resulting from provisions of the Patriot Act, NSA mass surveillance, or targeting of whistleblowers?
Did she note that, while she is opposed to killing people for expressing free speech, she is fine with crowd killing and the use of algorithms to target and kill people as long as it is the US government/military doing the killing and our ‘enemies’ doing the dying?
I would imagine Kissinger had a good chuckle at that line.
Yup.
I know I did.
What makes it even more obscene is that she spewed that a few days after the murderous mafia “government ” of Honduras sponsored by Hillary murdered Berta Cáceres in cold blood for exercising “free speech “. Univision gave her a pass.
I heard that “The American Spectator” would be a good place to read about how the Republicans would work with Clinton to “get things done”….but they don’t seem to like her ideas.
Essentially, Clinton’s plan is unfair to the 1 percent. They already pay more than the poor, and that is not fair. Billionaires work just as hard for that last billion as the poor work to keep food on the table. And anyway increasing taxes to pre Reagan levels is contractionary (it would contract the size of rich people’s offshore tax havens)…anyway there’s no need to raise taxes, I’m sure there is some waste and inefficiency we can find somewhere, …maybe we can put some of those 3 year olds that Jack Weil has trained as immigration lawyers to work?
Anyway, the point is that Clinton can “reach across the aisle” and …oh screw it!!!
The article is right about one thing, tax increases don’t solve the problem of stagnating incomes….if only there were a candidate that was proposing to do something about that, maybe use infrastructure spending to raise employment (and the cost of labour) or maybe raise the minimum wage or something……
The blood of Berta Caceres is on Hillary Clinton’s hands.
The UK Independent is reporting that
“MPs to investigate use of British weapons by Saudi Arabia in Yemen: The Committee on Arms Export Control has launched an inquiry into whether export controls have been broken. – Jon Stone, 10 March 2016, UK Independent”
The United States Department of Defense has delivered several thousand cluster bombs to Saudi Arabia over the past few years (about the size of hot water heater, loaded with hundreds of small anti-personnel explosives, often with delayed fuses, that are released from the munition in mid-air, notorious for being used against civilians and creating a long-term hazard in the form of unexploded bomblets).
According to US News & World Reports,
“The U.S. supports the Saudi-led coalition of Arab nations battling the Houthis with an operations center in Saudi Arabia and another in Bahrain. Through them, the American military provides intelligence and logistics support as well as air tankers to help refuel the coalition’s jets. – USN&WR, Paul D. Shinkman Aug. 19, 2015,”
This is exactly the kind of thing Hillary Clinton has been supporting, so does she just not realize how grossly hypocritical she sounds, or is she merely counting on corporate media to not call her out on her statements during the election?
If you look at her support for “moderate” rebels in Syria while she was secretary of state – look how that turned out. The weapons that were supplied to so-called moderates, at her urging, ended up in the hands of ISIS and Al Qaeda affiliates, and as their attacks on the Syrian regime increased, hundreds of thousands – as many as 3 million since then – Syrian civilians fled their home, creating a massive refugee crisis in Europe, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.
Nevertheless, Hillary Clinton, like with her pro-Iraq War vote, she shrugs it off with a wave of her hand – “well, you known, foreign policy is hard, it’s difficult” – an eerie echo of Donald Rumsfeld, who also used to laugh it off – “well, things get messy.”
She would be an utter disaster as President – just more of the same idiotic policies that created the huge mess in the first place.
During the Benghazi 11 hour hearings with Clinton the “rat line” detailed by Seymour Hersh regarding Libyan weapons being transported through Turkey to the Syrian rebels, was briefly touched on and glossed over.
It appears that one of Chris Stevens “objectives” while in Benghazi was to facilitate this “rat line”:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2014/05/06/seymour-hersh-links-turkey-to-benghazi-syria-and-sarin/
This “connecting of Hillary Clinton’s Saudi Arabia dots” speaks volumes about her character and ethics:
http://investmentwatchblog.com/clinton-inc-aka-how-to-convince-any-real-democrat-to-dump-hillary/
Notice how Hillary titters to video of Qadaffi’s demise. Easy to find on Go-Ogle.
You’ve got to be kidding me!!!!!:
Ah, yes…it’s difficult to teach three-year-olds to represent themselves in court, but not nearly as difficult as teaching five-year-olds to perform thoracic surgery on themselves!! And if anyone knows anything about fair hearings, it should be the government that runs the Guantanamo military tribunals. We’re going to miss the “progressive” Obama justice department.
I commend you on your article. Until I read your piece, I thought that there was no one reporting the news as Woodward And Bernstein did. Truth, not fluff! This democratic BOOMER FOR BERNIE has acquired thousands on my Facebook page. I am still living in the 20th century as far as knowledge , but just seconds after I gave my comment on an article about the debate on CNN, I got a request from 24 Latinos asking me to friend them! This activist from the sixties sees a revolution coming in this era when fact checking is at everyone’s disposal.
Nice summary of her infamy. Like to see the equivalent on MSM. Waiting….
I attended the University of Arkansas while Clinton was governor. The wife of an activist I knew was told by Hoyt Purvis, the former chief of staff for Sen. Fulbright and then working at the university, that during the Vietnam war Clinton worked in their office. They discovered at the time that he was actually spying on them for the pro-war people.
While he was governor, Bill Clinton seemed to support the Contras. There was a CIA drug-smuggling/arm the Contras operation out of Mena, AR and other airports in the south which was investigated for six years by the state police until the justice department took over the investigation and buried it.
When it seemed clear the justice dept. would not act, Arkansas Rep. Alexander obtained some funding for the state to continue its investigation. This money went to the governor but Clinton refused to do anything with it. While he was governor, Bill Clinton gave the Arkansas Traveler award to the Calero brothers.
Then there’s this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWL_NBJN5cA
Suggest reading “Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA” by Terry Reed:
http://circumspectnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/3-COMPROMISED-Clinton-Bush-CIA.pdf
The problem with this interview is Nichol’s doesn’t prove anything. It is all hearsay. Nichol’s could be a Clinton agent trying to discredit the Mena story by making up false allegations. I think you have to be careful dealing with such accusations. The Mena story, on the other hand, was investigated for six years by the state police. It is credible.
Bernie Sanders’ strength is his weakness, he just has too much integrity to be President of the USA.
Clinton’s weakness is her strength, her lack of integrity makes her perfect to be President of the USA.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. I really like Bernie, but he is up against the entrenched evil in Washington. If he is on the ballot (as president), I’ll still vote for him. If not, well, I don’t think Trump has ever been called too nice…
And there is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hhIT2H-UKQ
Any presidential candidate is faced with unrealistic expectations, and to be frank, that is partly their fault, because they promise to do things that are beyond their power. If we really want reform, we need to replace almost everyone in Congress. Short of that, we should elect someone who understands the art of politics, who can use relationships with people in Congress to get things done.
Personally, I prefer the approach of sweeping all the incumbents out of office, accepting the loss of a handful of really decent human beings as the price of ridding ourselves of the great mass of scum, but I am not sanguine about that happening, based on the past performance of the electorate. That said, one needs to look at the Party candidates from the point of view of their potential for dealing with Congress. On that basis, the current candidates who are the most hopeless are Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz. Kasich, Rubio and Sanders have been around long enough to form valuable alliances, and for that reason should be more effective. Trump is of course a wild card; he claims to be a negotiator, but to negotiate one needs a partner. It is not clear that his own wing of the party would cooperate with him.
We are up against evil and it is up to, we the people to make the necessary fundamental changes. #bernieorbust
I like your enthusiasm, but a rigged game is hard to beat.
We’ll see what the FBI has to say on Hillary’s email.
What kind of conversation is the author trying to start?
I don’t see how its productive to attack voters, whether they be for Hillary, Trump, Sanders or the other two (however many there are running)
what changes can we the people possibly make if we direct our anger and focus at each other rather than policies?
I also have to say I don’t see what benefit it serves to participate in the various forms of negative campaign ads candidates have against each other by taking sides and continuing the bs. It really looks and feels petty, in my opinion.
I know I’m not the only one who would like some coverage on what all of the candidates plan to do and how they plan to do it, adding how candidates who aren’t Republican plan to handle the obstruction Obama was up against , that they too will be up against.
Glenn Greeenwald is entering some crucial facts into the conversation started last night during the debate between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, during which Clinton’s supporters began an inane campaign to depict Bernie Sanders as some “commie” -loving revolutionary.
If this is a conversation that doesn’t interest you, feel free to opt out.
Jesus
Thirty years ago we had the Iran-Contra hearings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
Now all we have is The Intercept and a few other alternative news sites trying to expose the truth regarding Libya, Syria, the Clinton email scandals, dirty deals with Saudi Arabia etc.
No hearings happening now. The “Establishment” is more interested in “going along to get along” and staying in power than the truth.
You didn’t read the article did you? It’s not about voters, but about Clinton’s acts throughout her political career…it’s the attacks about “berniebros” that are attempting to conflate some sexist nerds writing on social media with an entire campaign and Bernie himself. Read the article.
Come on – isn’t the foreign policy position of the candidates of critical importance? It’s not a ‘petty’ issue:
1) Consider that Obama White House, the Pentagon and the State Department want to create a $100 billion slush fund for military buildup and response in Eastern Europe, a rather blatant ploy to maintain Cold War-levels of foreign military spending in the region.
2) Consider that Obama, with the support of Congress, has moved to begin a $1 trillion dollar ‘nuclear weapons modernization’ program run by the DOE and NNSA, kicking it off with $15 billion or so in funding in 2015 – almost unreported by the corporate media, and never brought up by media moderators at Democratic or Republican debates. Why doesn’t Anderson Cooper bring it up? Megan Kelly? A petty issue? Hardly.
3) Consider that entire Middle East foreign policy has been an absolute disaster – under Obama, under Bush, under Clinton, under Bush Sr., under Reagan – for decades. It’s expensive, its counterproductive, it has spawned civil wars and terrorist groups across the region – and yet, establishment neoliberals like Clinton and neoconservative Republicans don’t see any reason to make any changes – more of the same?
4) Finally, isn’t there a better use for much of that money? Look around America – crumbing infrastructure everywhere, no money for updating transport systems, rebuilding bridges, replacing aging water pipes in cities, decrepit ex-manufacturing zones – and compare that to cities in, say, Japan and Germany – modern, clean, plenty of money available for repairs and upgrades.
That’s not an important issue? How about we let Europe pay for NATO and its $100 billion slush fund, and instead create a domestic $100 billion fund that cities and states across the country can tap into for much-needed infrastructure repair?
This is where even Sanders is disappointing – cutting our massive foreign military expenditures are not something he’s mentioned much, but how else will he pay for his proposed programs in areas like education, infrastructure, etc.?
Where did Glenn talk about the foreign policy position of the candidates?
That was the subject of the article you are commenting on, and therefore, are implicitly claiming to have read at some point.
Horsehooey
What was horsehooey, the idea that you read the article you are commenting on, or that it is legitimate in discussing the candidates’ foreign policy positions to consider the factual reality of the history of one candidate’s positions? Especially given that her supporters all claim that her real strength is foreign policy.
Really, clarify your frustration about this – it seems like many Hillary supporters object to the presentation and discussion of the factual reality of Hillary Clinton’s foreign policy record, while at the same time insisting that your candidate’s primary strength is foreign policy, and people not in your campaign find this maddening. What’s your beef with discussing the factual history of Hillary Clinton’s foreign policy record? Is it that, as a supporter of Hillary Clinton, when you are confronted with these facts, part of you realizes that you cannot simultaneously support Hillary Clinton, and still claim to have a value system shared by most of humanity, and this makes you upset?
LOL.
I’ve adopted a new rule that I don’t ever write “LOL” unless something I read actually made me laugh audibly in a way that someone in the same room would clearly hear it.
This comment easily qualifies. Thank you!
Wow, did I ever strike a chord here. I have to say I didnt see it coming but thanks for making my point dear Mr. Greenwald
*standing ovation*
Um, Glenn has spent his career detailing and criticizing the foreign policy of neoconservatives, Republican hawks, and also the uber-hawkishness of Hillary Clinton. As well as the foreign policy advisers and “experts” to whom hawks in both of the major parties listen.
What does what um Glenn spent his career criticizing have to do with the first post I made here? None of what I said was intended to be a personal stab or a statement about his career. That would just be pointless and mean.
It is difficult not to notice that he often goes after mainstream press but what is he offering by continuing the petty crap candidates are spewing at each other and then trolling Hillary supporters? I find it annoying. Can I say that? Is that alright with you?
And anyway the article I commented on here of Glenn’s isn’t discussing foreign policy positions of the candidates he went for associations of Hillary like he was interfering in some neighbors argument. OH yeah well who are you to talk?
I said I didn’t see how it was productive, especially going after VOTERS. Do you think it is? Do you think that we should all be talking about how irritated we are with voters?
I thought we were all supposed to be allies.
I almost regret posting. I probably should avoid reading this particular LOL author’s posts and threads but some of why I did is because I wanted to find out that I was wrong and something interesting would ensue.
Sadness and woe.
Yes, that’s a most insightful observation; a truly good aspiration. Your best yet.
“I know I’m not the only one who would like some coverage on what all of the candidates plan to do and how they plan to do it, adding how candidates who aren’t Republican plan to handle the obstruction Obama was up against , that they too will be up against.”
If Hillary Clinton was running as a Republican would you vote for her?
If not, then the reason you’d vote for have ONLY to do with party loyalty not her policy making decisions or her ideology.
If you cannot understand why it’s productive to discuss the beliefs and principles of the candidates running for president, not SOLELY which party they are affiliated with (which I believe is the primary reason most Hillary Clinton supporters support her), it speaks volumes for how little her actual policies or decision making matters to voters like yourself. It’s about tribalism and defending a party no matter how horrible that party becomes. THAT is frightening as hell!
What are you even talking about?
And its none of your goddamn business who I’m voting for Stranger
Brixton was merely venting the frustration non-Hillary-supporters feel when confronted with the mindless allegiance of her supporters versus the values her supporters claim to have. My question for you: Why are you visiting and commenting at a leftist/liberal web site? As a Hillary supporter (I presume) you frustration here is understandable, as neither you nor your candidate share the same values and priorities as the people working at or in general reading The Intercept.
I didn’t ask you who you were voting for. Are you illiterate as well as thin-skinned?
Clearly, your support for Hillary is based on party affiliation, and if she was a Republican you would not vote for her. The fact that you couldn’t answer & deny a simple question of ideology versus party affiliation speaks volumes.
If a simple statement of Hillary’s factual reality and history amounts to attacking her, then probably anyone who looks on her favorably needs to take a good, hard look at that support.
Are you Luther Brixton?
No, I am a Bosnian sniper.
Well done Candace. I enjoyed your plaintive cries of “leave Britney…” I mean, “leave Hillary, alone!”
And if you’re really curious about “what they plan to do” perhaps you could help yourself and look at what they have done. It’s very enlightening.
Or you could just come on here and act helpless, as if you don’t know what HRC is really all about.
I think it’s called reporting. Isn’t that why you read the Intercept?
my gawd it continued. holy crap, you people are scary
this ‘debate’ was in miami. a large part of the audience seemed to be gusanos or gusanitos, refugees from post-bautista cuba and their children and grandchildren. there was no mention about what came BEFORE castro…
funny that ramos and his colleagues could be so good and incisive in so much of their questioning and be so poor when it came to anything that might question orthodox reactionary cuban american political views.
most cubans were MUCH better off in every respect after u s puppet bautista was overthrown 56 years ago. those who weren’t came to florida and STILL keep whining for their old priviledges.
i deplore bernie’s reluctance to condemn the bush/obama/clinton neocon stance and bloated military, tho he is by far the least of the sinners among the various presidential hopefuls.
hillary was a goldwater girl and now is a goldwater grandmother. no change in all those years, nothing learned since she read conscience of a conservative. extermism in the cause of perpetual war is no sin. to her.
cuando sali de cuba…
Perpetual profit, too.
It becomes easier to set this in context when one perceives Clinton for what she is: a socially moderate but hawkish Republican, well to the right of Eisenhower. That old wing of the GOP has ceased to exist on the GOP side, having moved to the Democrats. If you scoff at this as hyperbole, try to imagine Hillary giving a speech warning about the military-industrial complex, as did Ike.
Viewed this way, Sanders has to fight conservatism not once but twice. He has to fight it first in Clinton. He then has to fight a much more toxic derivative of it in the general election, whoever wins on that side.
Then of the 1097 line items on http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm, (the authority) please show your audience where she’s anything other than a progressive leftist.
And keep in mind that progressive leftist Obama voters support Big Government police state, as well as his actions in Libya and Syria.
That is from a commenter who calls Hitler a leftist, and the NAZI party Socialist. So if anyone would like to spend their time “debating” this clown, consider yourself warned.
In your debt, Kitt!
That is from a commentator who thinks conservatives are attracted to a sign that says, “National [as in NPR] Socialist Workers Party” (and by the same token that progressives are attracted to one that says, “Tee-Partei”).
And that progressives aren’t playing the same disavowel games with Obama’s legacy 70 years later because it would reflect less than optimally on squeaky clean, Libya- and Syria-invasive progressive leftists (who, like their invasive predecessor movement, also have their own solar symbol).
What ever did happen to Electro_Robot/~~~~squiggles/CatVsRoomba/ChristmasSackOf Hammers…. or whomever that was…???
Echo?
Thanks Kitt, I was about to waste my time.
The old wing of the GOP is now called the Tea Party and is exemplified by Ted Cruz and, moreso, Donald Trump. (And Mia Love, Rand Paul, Louie Gohmert, Jason Chaffetz, Mike Lee, David Brat, Walter Jones,….)
Who co-opted whom?
And what happened to Occupy? Hahaha.
Occupy is still with us, and has never endorsed either party. That said, Occupy themes are woven throughout Sanders stump speech. I have to admit though– I have no idea what you’re actually saying, or asking. If you have something to say, why not just say it.
There is always this little birdie whispering in his ear when he starts to speak:
“Remember….you have promised to endorse Hillary when you lose the nomination and to deliver all your supporters to the Clinton camp….You don’t want to hand the Republicans any “bad” things about Clinton that could hurt her in the general election….”.
Too bad Bernie refuses (thus far) to go “all in” against Clinton.
This is what we need him to do.
A “knock-out” punch. Right now he isn’t even making contact. Just dancin’ around like Muhammad Ali making all his supporters dizzy.
I imagine Sanders is sensitive to Dem. Party unity, but don’t think that explains his manner generally. Bernie’s a long-time congressman and senator, and I think that has largely conditioned how he talks and how he debates. In a word, comity. He also wants to keep his campaign positive and substantive as much as he can, and I think it’s working for him. Contrast with Clinton’s false negatives on Sanders–the auto-bailout lie and more recently the lie that Sanders loves despots–have not stuck on him and have likely hurt Clinton, if anything. Sanders’ restraint works for him.
The great majority of voters in the fake U$A are grasping
for their preferred fetish figure.
Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and the rest of the
would-be-Reagans
cannot be held to account for their lack of integrity
because their power is not who they are or what they have
done, but it is very much what their supporters NEED them
to be in order for their supporters to feel a surge of power
and domination.
The only prominent candidate whose fetishistic appeal is
somewhat less Reaganistic is Sanders, but even he has aligned
with one of the two parties of corporate fetishism.
This fetishism is primarily misogynistic even though there are
many prominent women involved. It stems from a desperation
for phallic militarization as a means of escaping the
feelings of vulnerability which are seen as an unholy
feminine flaw which lacks the righteous fervor of domination.
This fetishism of the religiosity of corporate dominion depends
and insists upon the repudiation of connectedness –
an immunity to responsibility.
Sanders’ call for responsible behavior (as limited as it is)
challenges the very purpose of the fetish.
The only party which is based upon a strong repudiation
of the corporate fetishisms is the Green party and they
have been ardently marginalized by democrats and republicans.
If Sanders fails, his supporters who desire integrity must
realize that the Green party is the only currently remaining route
out of this perverse orgy of phallic corporatism.
The Green party advocates homeopathy, which is a bunch of snake oil junk.
No thanks.
Whatever you do,
do not see that “snake oil junk” is a good description
of the democrats and republicans.
You are known by the company you keep Mrs. Clinton – despots, dictators, killers, and war criminals.
Hey, will someone get this message to Bernie’s campaign staff, please: Next time Hillary Clinton tries to attack you about Cuba, PIVOT to her unabashed support for China. Over and over, she has articulated her love affair with China and her buddy Henry Kissinger’s work at “opening up” trade there. Hmmmmmm….. Well, I’m not going to say Fidel Castro is the sweetest guy in the world. I am sure there’s ground upon which he can be criticized. But if the goal is promoting democracy and preventing abuse and oppression of good people, let’s talk about the gross humanitarian abuses in China, with whom Hillary and Bill have advocated and supported free trade consistently.
The Sandinista government of Nicaragua was a democratically elected in 1984 in an election that international observers considered “free and fair” except for (you guessed it) the US government. It left power in 1990 because it lost an election. Why did it lose? The US government imposed brutal sanctions on the Sandinistas, and it was also funding a terrorist group to overthrow the government. (Imagine a foreign power funding death squads that go around killing thousands in your country, and the political effects of that.) The US threatened Nicaraguans with continued sanctions and violence if they elected the Sandinistas in 1990. This outright subversion of democracy was celebrated in the US as a triumph of democracy.
They had a few problems with the whole Iran-Contra (re: Ollie North) thing, iirc, but nothing a few Presidential pardons couldn’t take care of.
*if only Jimmy Carter had monitored the coming Reagan election as fair and free.
The behavior of the US in Nicaragua can be seen as consistent when one recalls how it played out elsewhere. For instance in Chile, where the democratically elected Salvadore Allende was overthrown in a military coup engineered by the CIA, or in Iran where the legitimate government was overthrown and the Shah installed as a US puppet (again by the CIA) because of oil policy, or in Palestine, where the US and Israel continued to demonize the PLO, insisting on free and fair elections, and then refusing to accept the Hamas victory that ensued.
Many others have pointed out that the US conception of a free and fair election is that which brings a stooge of American capitalism to power. Our leaders are for the most part fine with the behavior of the Saudis, the Chinese, the Egyptians, the Turks, the Israelis and . . .[the list goes on] so long as their strategic priorities align with ours. This has a very long history – going back as far as President Monroe – but it keeps getting uglier with time.
That’s absolutely true. The definition of “free and fair” elections in mainstream US discourse has nothing to do with election methodology. It mostly depends on whether the US-favored candidate won. Alternatively, the demographic that elected the non-favored candidate can be demonized as “savages”.
Hillary “Oliver North” Clinton would disagree.
I do not remember any celebration. I remember it being something only those who pay attention noticed.
Probably 80% of my friends would have no idea what Iran-Contra was.
Hopefully the internet will make it harder for the government to do this with future generations. The internet is going to be like the printing press in terms of enlightenment. Chomsky and Zinn did not have the tools GG has at his disposal… the tools of the future will only get better.
Here’s a NY Times article from 1990: Nicaragua, Victory U.S. Fair Play.
The Reagan and Bush administrations bullied Nicaraguans into voting for the US-backed candidate, and additionally funded the opposition, self-determination be damned.
You are really not very well-informed, or you have no idea of foreign interactions. Of course, Hillary as a very intelligent person in a position of power, should have relationships with all head of states and stake holders, not only those who are allies, but also keeping enemies closely. This is how she could get Iran nuclear disarmament or Israel-Palestine cesse fire in Gaza, … and freedom for Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma, Gay leaders in south Asia, stop civil war in southern Sudan … I honest wish you intellectual evolution as you need much :)
But see, she is not saying she would have relationships with all heads of state. (That’s probably something Bernie Sanders would honestly believe, though.) She picks and chooses. She sees Castro one way — probably wouldn’t want to meet him. Meanwhile, she was great pals with Mubarak. Her foundation takes money from Middle East monarchies and so forth.
Her inconsistencies are the result of financial and power interests. People can figure that out.
Yes! And Hillary Clinton is such a “very intelligent person” that she and Bill vacation every year with Henry Kissinger and his wife at Oscar de la Renta’s villa. All very intelligent diplomats announce that tyrants are “very close friends of my family.”
We who are not “very intelligent” simply do not see the genius at work here.
Meg sorry to say you are delusional, you mention some ok things she did while being ignorant or refusing to see all the overwhelming negatives she has done in her political career. From flip-flopping on gay marriage then supporting when it was convenient or acceptable just a few years ago, receiving funds from Wall Street, private prisons or the largest amount out of any other candidate by far from the fracking industry totaling 300k way over Jeb Bush or supporting the Wall street bailout then disguising it with supporting the auto industry. There’s many more, but I’ll leave it there. If you’re going to defend her fine, but let’s be fair and look at all aspects of a candidate.
Free hagiography, but loaded with irony.
Clinton opposes extending the IAEA nuclear inspections to the state of Israel, which has a clandestine nuclear weapons program of its own, and which should be given the same kind of scrutiny that the Iranian nuclear program has.
Clinton opposes forcing Saudi Arabia and Gulf Arab partners to pay attention to human rights issues, to make democratic reforms, to stop the flow of funds to Wahhabi Sunni terrorist groups, and to stop attacks on civilians in Yemen.
Clinton has a disastrous foreign policy agenda, very similar in practice to that of the neocons – her positions are essentially identical to those of Condoleeza Rice, really.
As far as your claim about “relationships with all head of states and stake holders, not only those who are allies, but also keeping enemies closely.” – Well, recall this?
“In July 2007, Obama said in a debate he would meet with Cuban leader Fidel Castro and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. The next day Clinton said that was “irresponsible and, frankly, naive.” – politifact.
What does a sane, rational approach towards the Middle East look like? First, stop calling any country there an “ally” – instead, try to push for diplomatic resolutions. Cut back on military spending, and encourage diplomatic and trade missions over Pentagon militarism.
Where has this worked well? Pakistan and India, that’s where – notice how we have no military bases in either country? So let’s get all our military bases out of the Middle East as well.
I dont see how Hillary Clinton decisions make Bernie Sanders better!?
Sanders has the tendencie to have romantic vision of latina America left radical groups.I don’t have it as someone who has live in Latin America I don’t think having HEALTHCARE justified oppression.
And saying that people did not raise in arms because they were happy is a lie they were afraid and scared and being against Nixon or the imperialists of USA doesn’t make you a saint you can be against USA interventions and still being a monster and dictator.
Did Bernie Sanders say healthcare justified oppression? Do you actually think he can plausibly believe that? Your interpretation is preposterous.
Neither does the oppressiveness of some leftist movements and governments justify the U.S. government, including the CIA, arming murderous, nun-raping thugs; deposing elected officials; and supporting right-wing tyrannies.
I’ve seen no evidence that Bernie Sanders holds a “romantic” vision of leftist revolutionaries or of their governments in the Americas. The horrific thing about all actual revolutions is that they are bloody — but in many of those countries there has been no other option. Tyranny doesn’t give up due to popular will. The U.S. has consistently armed the brutal tyrants.
Thing is, the Hillarybots aren’t really thinking – they’re reacting. Much heat, little light. Evidence is overwhelming that Hillary has sold her soul to the MIC, but they don’t want to hear it, so they won’t. Minds closed? Case closed.
On point. Most succinct summation of what is so terribly wrong with Killary Klinton… war… and the money made off of it… MIC… which Eisenhower tried to warn us about so many years ago.
@Glenn
“The Democratic debate in three minutes: Hillary Clinton dominates in Miami ”
from The Guardian today.
What has happened to this former associate of yours?
They also refused to name Sanders the winner in Michigan until the whole world had already noted it.
Thanks for your analysis of the great fraud HCC.
How is Hillary a fraud. She expresses the progressive left’s urban camo and raised fist violence-mindedness, and border obliviousness, and promotion of a Big Government that is the only configuration large enough and tax-flush enough to allocate crony capital.
Progressives commonly push for Big Government? Really? Military spending accounts for 54% of the total federal budget, and who knows how many billions of unaccounted dollars goes into our intelligence/surveillance network. I’d have to say on the contrary, progressives are NOT for Big Government.
It was amazing and predictable at the same time. Bernie Sanders killed, got a standing ovation and won all the snap polls. The corporate media immediately declared Hillary the winner.
I watched the Washington Post stream and after Bernie’s closing remarks and the standing ovation, they cut away to the pundit’s in the newsroom who both declared that Hillary had won. Then they cut back to the guy down on the floor and asked him who he had thought had won, in the background people were chanting Bernie, and he said something along the lines of “Yes I agree, Hillary Clinton won tonight”. It was so absurd it was hilarious.
OMFG. This is what I am spared by reading transcrips.
Why is something so ridiculous so easy to believe? Maybe because it keeps happening.
One need only look at their coverage of Corbyn.
Yes indeed. But what has been going on management wise to bring about their volt-face.
How anyone who calls themselves progressives can support this harridan is beyond my comprehension. Ignorance is the only excuse.
Why? Progressives commonly push hard for Big Government–which is the only entity that is large enough to allocate crony capital. And which is the only entity large enough to fund surveillance state and police state.
Erich Honecher would blush at the strides America’s progressive left has made in promoting the aggressive funding mechanism that he, Brezhenev, Mao, Guzmán, Ceau?escu, Jiang, Hoxha, the Kims, Ayers, Dohrn, Chavez, et al., always wanted.
@ underscore
You honestly believe in the absence of “big government” the “free market’ would solve all mankind’s problems and allocate resources efficiently and not result in monopoly and monopsony (which is precisely what is predicted by those very same “free market” theorists in the absence of “regulation”)?
You believe Google and Apple and a whole host of other private sector entities are engaging in “mass surveillance” on your life and data?
You honestly believe that in the absence of “big government” there wouldn’t be “police factionalism” (physical violence and/or economic) imposing its will on the masses? Of course there would be, the difference is that the richest entities in the world would be the ones funding their own “police state” for their direct economic benefit and to protect their “resources” because they’d be the only ones who could fund such personnel and activities.
” . . . aren’t engaging in “mass surveillance” . . . .” Sorry for typo.
You’re free to use Google and Apple gingerly or with abandon. But you’re not coerced every middle of April to support Google or Apple under the muzzle of state firepower. Understand the difference, rrheard?
@ underscore
You didn’t answer my other questions, but as far as Apple and Google go, I most certainly understand the distinction.
What you also need to understand is that there are many who would be severally disadvantaged in the real world, at least as presently constructed, by not being able or choosing to use Google or Apple which necessarily involves mass surveillance and data collection.
In other words in the world constructed as it is, positing some meaningful distinction between “big government” and “Google” is more a Hobson’s Choice, or Morton’s fork, or dilemma.
I agree there is a meaningful distinction between the “coercive nature” of enforcement practices of the two, but that elides the practically reality of the limited choices humans are presented.
the free market is the best way to generate the material stuff we need
i don’t see anyone here suggesting that it solves all of mankind’s problems
that task is left to you mr heard
I don’t know what you’re trying to describe but it’s not progressives. We want to end crony capitalism / political bribery / corporate welfare. We also want to demilitarize the police, cut our excessive “defense” budget and put a stop to the perpetual warfare and regime changes, and put an end to the NSA spying on citizens… we don’t support a “police state” that’s absurd, our policy positions are much further from a police state than what we have today with cops using tanks and imprisoning people for drug possession.
You must admit that HRC’s progressive leftist bonafides are unimpeachable.
Forward!
Clearly, you don’t have a clue re: those issues supported by progressives.
Wouldn’t a “tl:dr” re the above article have sufficed?
Hello bunny. I have decided to be apolitical because I think right now what the world needs is less side-taking, so I’m not going to comment on this article. But just wanted to check in and say you’re still adorable and I love you.
Please provide links to proof of your accusations. If not, then take your anti-semitic shit and shinola elsewhere. It’s not welcome here.
Didn’t he just do that in the article? Can you point out any places where he should provide more sources?
The entire article is basically a series of links.
Glenn holds my record for thirteen (13!) hyper-links in a. single. sentence … which included links to the rest of Craig’s story! lol.
Welp. Lemme ‘splain that my comment was a response to an obviously anti-semitic comment that has since been removed.
Glenn, if you – or your mods – are going to take away the stimulus, please also remove the response, so that I don’t get misconstrued as the three responses below – including one from bah who knows better – show has happened. Either that or just leave that crap AND it’s challenges. :-s
To those responding to me. Was it too hard to deal with my alleged accusation that Glenn is an anti-semite? Did that even make sense coming from me?? Or are we just accepting that sort of thing around here now as status quo???
Jeez Louise but it was easier to exist around here when people actually read enough of a given commenter to have a handle on folks’ history of positions. :-s
>”– including one from bah who knows better – ”
That is correct … I was just pulling your leg :)~
This explains why I appear to be walking in circles. ;-}
avelna2001
Um, are you replying to someone?
I did. The comment I replied to has since been removed. My fair and petite (ahem) heinie, however, was left exposed to the ravages of the wonds of fortune, ushc as they are, in these fair fields. ;-}
C’mon, Pedinska, NOW it’s at least sort of funny. (Good one, bah!)
I’ll bet it wasn’t before.
And you’re right, of course, I didn’t have to read a single reply below your shit and shinola comment to know something had been moderated above it.
Peace and netflix to you.
That explains that “whooshing” sound I didn’t hear…
Thought provoking comment, for me anyway.
Debating the merits of allowing troll excrement to lie and be cleaned up by the larger community..
Knowing a commenters complied history..
1. Troll poo is the most awful, noxious and toxic cyber feces there is. It seemingly has an uncanny ability to infect those it contacts with negativity. Therefore, in my opinion, it should be treated as HAZMAT!
2. Anyone who has been reading these threads since the beginning recognizes certain screen names. I can think of maybe 5 or 6 that have been commendable contributors from the start, (you haven’t been nearly as prolific in your commenting recently,). I guess what I’m trying to say is, if troll poo is HAZMAT, you could write the MSDS sheet.
Um, are you replying to someone?
Great piece and the commentors ad value. Lin Ming below is correct.
Whoever the President is the focus of their term has to be correcting domestic wrongs. Nixonites and their policies materially harm us. Does Socialism make people get out of bed happy to be productive? Does the current form of Capitalism make people get out of bed happy to be productive? The answer to both is no.
Why are we not in the middle of another industrial revolution? We are more educated now yet our quality of life improved exponentially more by a less educated population during the 19th and early 20th centuries, why? The burden of laws is too much to overcome. Get lawyers out of politics!
Phil Ferro
C’mon Phil you are better than that.
Do you think there could be a lot of complex seemingly burdensome laws on the books because modern human reality is complex? Human relationships (personal, social and economic) are complex? There are innumerable competing human “interests” as part of that reality that have to be “balanced”? Or that reality and language are often subjective, contingent and uncertain, and that the law reflects that complexity?
Do you really believe that “simplicity” is possible in the laws of a nation of 300 + million people operating in a world of 6 + billion other human beings? You know what a “state” with a weak system of laws or a simplistic system of laws looks like? Somalia. Or Afghanistan. The “rule of law” for better or worse is “civilization”.
I’m not saying lawyers are the solution, but they aren’t necessarily the problem. Are there any other groups you think should be not allowed to participate in the “politics” of self-governance? Maybe religious fundamentalists, or atheists? Perhaps people who don’t own property or don’t have a formal education past high school?
I’m going to respond but I have a daughter who owns me. When she gives me permission I’ll get back. I don’t do this but you gave me some of your time and I respect that so I will give you mine.
@ Phil Ferro
Fair enough. I’m being sincere in asking the above in response to a portion of your comment. That’s my focus. We’ve gone around in past, but I’d be interested in hearing your honest thoughts on how “keeping lawyers out of politics” or “the burdensomeness of the law” is “the problem.”
@rrheard-Diagnosing the cause of an illness is complex. Diagnosing the actual cause of global temperature fluctuations is complex. Curing cancer is complex. Identifying the laws of physics on the other side of the event horizon region of a black hole is complex. Human interaction is not complex.
If we could please not place the citizens of foreign countries in this conversation? Recognizing the supremacy of the individuals inalienable rights is uniquely American. Until foreign people’s do the same their laws should have zero relationship with America’s laws and jurisprudence.
In researching case precedent on various court decisions there were a number of references to foreign laws or customs to justify a decision and/or argument(s). Reading some of your comments you have done the same. Some were very persuasive, I was impressed. But, I have yet to see a reference to The Declaration of Independence? The Constitution, the separation of powers etc is supposed to make it really hard if not impossible to violate an individual’s rights. The form and function of our government first and foremost is to SECURE our rights, simple. Outside of that what is there, contract law? An agreement between a buyer and a seller.
A self evident truth to human life is family. An inalienable right if there can ever be one yet we have family court? Not a court to secure the rights of individuals trying to have a family or maintaining a family but a court that alienates individuals from families, alienates parents from their children. Expressing parents by percentage does not reflect human interaction/natural laws. It’s un-American yet the BAR promotes it? The form and function of our government doesn’t support the infringement of individuals inalienable rights. Yet the BAR advises the judiciary, congress and state legislators to do just that, to infringe on the rights of individuals and their families? The BAR has corrupted the system. The checks and balances, the separation of powers no longer function as barriers to tyranny by individual or government.
The BAR has no credibility. It doesn’t regulate lawyers as it’s supposed to. How many acts by our government were cleared by lawyers? How many of those acts violate the publics trust, The Constitution, Human Rights, The Declaration of Independence? Did the BAR discipline the legal advisors that cleared those acts?
I personally have seen agreements worth a huge amount of money, millions and millions and millions of dollars, based on a handshake. Your word should be your bond. It is with me. Honor, respect, integrity and honesty keeps things simple.
I’m trying to keep this short. So, counselor what say you?
You have one solution for every problem apparently and the connection here is tenuous at best.
How many solutions do you apply at one period in time to correct a problem? I’ve learned through trial and error that applying one option within the solution set at a time is the most efficient way. How is my comment at best tenuously connected here? Is Bernie Sanders a socialist? Is HRC a lawyer? Are they running for President? I believe it was Nixon who structured his presidency around the idea that America runs itself so he focused on foreign policy for the most part. The war on drugs started with him. All of the scandals and abuses related to the White House, Nixon’s and others, were cleared by legal advisors. I ask again how is my comment tenuously connected?
The only thing the Clinton’s and their money machine have to use to swing at Bernie with is the communist socialist club. She’s so beaten by Bernie, her talking points are melting into out right lies and highjacks of Bernie’s points. She is desperate, but will be President as it has been ordained. At least we see her for what she really is and how the Clinton’s, Bush’s, Obama’s, have reigned over us by selling the Coke vs Pepsi platform. She will be president despite what the people say, it was her destiny for putting up with her husband and what she wanted since the Goldwater days.
As much as I HATE Big Brother (sorry Director Rogers, it’s true) I’d be greatly encouraged to reconsider that harsh attitude should the newer rule-of-law-NSA come forward with the 38,000+ emails, no doubt Clinton Foundation conflicts of interest, erased from a supposedly official State Department server – in her private possession.
I might even chortle, “O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
But probably not.
Wow, even back in the eighties, Sanders had it together:
Instead of letting the right wing only quote the few words they like about Sanders saying something about Castro, I would publicize his entire speeches, he could give them again today and they would still stand up.
Yeah, that snippet of video was taken out of context. If you watch a minute or two before and after the segment they used, you really get a sense of what he meant. Can’t blame them though, it’s got to be a tough job digging up dirt on Sanders. I mean they had to go back and get a 30 old year video.
That’s the thing I don’t understand about Hillary’s campaign. If Sanders wanted to, he could do the same thing to her in a much more impressive fashion, all campaign long. Hillary has been surrounded by scandals and controversy since her and Bill stepped into the white house. This list here in the article is really just a tiny shard of an iceberg. She’s done so much flip flopping on the issues and questionable behavior. There is so much it would be hard to cover it all.
Jeet Heer actually tackles that sentiment here:
https://newrepublic.com/article/131356/bernie-sanders-actually-anti-trump
Yeah but Glenn, you’re overlooking one key fact: Hillary Clinton is a woman! We all know women are more docile and human rights loving. She’s barely even voted for war, just those few times is all, but what we should really be concentrating on are these disturbing links between Sanders and socialist dictators. After all he himself claims to be a socialist. That basically means when he is President he will be a dictator! See the logic there? Plus we all know Obama is a muslim socialist, so how did that hopey changey stuff work out for ya?
Next thing you know, they’ll tie him to Liberation Theology ffs. The Sanders’ Sandinistas …
It’s a difficult question. As a US leader, do you deal with the foreign despots you have, or do you assassinate them and deal with the despots you’d like to have? This is why Washington is filled with foreign policy think tanks, financed by foreign despots.
As Mr. Greenwald clearly demonstrates, Mrs. Clinton gets things done. She has a proven track record of strong arming despots to do her bidding, and then discarding them once they’re no longer useful. These are highly desirable qualities for a US president.
Mr. Sanders, on the other hand, seems to have retained a residue of idealism. Some will argue that will quickly disappear if he is elected president. But it still represents a risk.
So another difficult question. Do you elect a leader you know is ruthless, or one whom you merely hope is ruthless?
Satirical Mastery! Erudite use of Don’s “… go to war with the equip./resources you have not the stuff you wished you had” [paraphrased] Oh Deuce, lmao, sir.
Kasich as President…BAD IDEA. Google: John Kasich’s American Hustle.
Things are not at all what they seem in Ohio. Take a look behind their curtain of Public Corruption. Ohio is run as a Predatory State against its own Citizens. As a licensed Real Estate Broker I can attest to these crimes! Look up Jerry Blake in Canton Ohio on Linkedin for more details on this scam stealing family homes for special interests.
Thank you
Excellent article. All of the Democratic Party spoiler theorists who continue to bash Greens such as myself ought to read this article and see that Ralph Nader was right: the Democratic Party Establishment is about as right-wing, authoritarian, and militarist as the Republican Establishment is.
This also shows how Bernie Sanders has lost his way to some extent in the last twenty or so years. In the 1980’s he was against militarism; but starting in the 90’s and up to today, he’s been divided between denouncing militarism and supporting it. It’s especially disappointing given his great economic positions and how he’s helped shift the economic debate further left this year. But still, in the end, baring a miracle prosecution and arrest of Hillary Clinton, he’s probably not going to win the Dem nomination, leaving Jill Stein as the sole national candidate on the libertarian left (ie, socially and economically liberal/progressive). I hope most of Bernie’s supporters have the sense to rally around her and try to get her 5 or more percent of the vote instead of refusing to vote or voting for Hillary (or writing in Bernie’s name even though many states won’t count such votes unless he runs an official write-in campaign).
Don’t forget Bahrain. Another one of our stalwart ME allies, whose human rights abuses are routinely ignored.
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/06/bahraini-blogger-on-state-dept-tour-says-hillary-clinton-betrayed-and-crushed-bahrain-democracy-movement/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1xrAv9cMqI
I’m so pissed off right now. Fucking A. I was like, huh, maybe Bernie was a really had said some strange things…but apparently not. That’s full interview from which that quote was taken. He was arguing against REGIME CHANGE, for crying out loud.
@ggreenwald – you should include that in the article
Really interesting video, thanks for posting.
I’d like to quote Sanders in this interview, but there are so many good quotes.
It would be great to have a transcript of this. There are so many points that Sanders makes against Reagan, US invasions, he talks about poverty, the right wing’s control of US media and so much more.
HRC can be a hypocrite and still be right about Sanders. Sure she’s not the most credible “vessel” for human rights criticism, but the campaign is going to grasp at whatever is possible to weaken Sanders, especially given her oratorical weakness and gutter reputation. Also, the article’s logic works in reverse. If only the saintly can criticize foreign policy views, we’d have to leave it out of the election entirely, and omit the arena perhaps most important to a presidential race given the oval office’s de facto unilateral power to get into all sorts of mischief. There is no pro peace and human rights candidate this time around. Sanders isn’t as bad as Hillary but he also can’t credibly hold his opponent accountable for opinions ranging from the naive to the monstrous. He’s in the same boat.
“There is no pro peace and human rights candidate this time around.”
Wrong.
http://www.jill2016.com
Candidate in the could-conceivably-be- elected sense.
But isn’t that a direct function of changing human being’s minds about what is “conceivable” or “possible” and then getting them to act on that belief?
I mean whether I agree or not, isn’t that idea the very basis of why “libertarians” are “libertarians” and try and convince others to be as well (which actually describes a lot of diverse and conflicting beliefs depending on the type of “libertarianism” you subscribe to) . . . i.e. you “conceive” that there are other “possible” ways of “ordering” human relationships and “society” which you believe to be “better/superior” or more “moral or just” compared to how we order them now?
I think what you are really arguing is that “there is no candidate” that you, Macroman, define as “pro peace or human rights” who currently has enough “recognition as existing” in the public consciousness of 300 million Americans in such a way as to be “electorally viable” at this point and time. It’s not that that/those candidates don’t “exist” at present, just that for a host of reasons those candidates never get sufficient publicity in the majority American consciousness to be electorally viable.
Actually 100s are running all over the country and some are most assuredly pro peace and human rights.
http://www.politics1.com/p2016.htm
I mean Vermin Supreme is running I think and he’s pro peace and human rights if I recollect correctly. He also believes in fully funding time travel research, and good dental hygiene including gene-splicing to create a race of flying monkeys to serve as tooth fairies.
Now I can’t “conceive” that he could convince enough people to buy into and act on those ideas, but that’s not the same as those ideas not existing or him not running and/or being beyond being “conceivably electable” in the abstract.
Maybe it’s a just a distinction without a difference, but seems sad to me that far too many human beings are so limited (for lots of reasons) in being able to “conceive” of something better than what we have right now as ordering principles.
I don’t disagree with any of your points here. I was a Ron Paul supporter and desperately tried to counter the “unelectable” argument in 2008 and 2012. But if someone came along and said, “You know Ron Paul has no chance, right?” I had to say, “Yeah, I know.” It doesn’t seem controversial to say that Jill Stein supporters are in a similar situation now. That was all I meant. Certainly wasn’t saying that Jill Stein’s electability is an immutable result of the laws of physics or something like that.
@ Macroman
Fair enough. That’s what I thought you were getting at, but obviously wasn’t sure as Pedinska responded to the gist of the comment as written right after I did. Not going to belabor it any further, just looking for a little clarity to make sure I was picking up what you are putting down–and think we are in agreement regardless of our different worldviews that too many are constrained by what “conceivable” as forced upon them by the status quo.
If it’s any consolation while I didn’t think much of Ron Paul’s economic or social worldview, I did at times have points of agreement with his “civil liberties” positions even though they were incoherent (morally, socially, economically) at times i.e. “correct” on a policy position but not necessarily for a rationale I shared.
In my ideal political world there would be proportional representation and multiple multiple parties (libertarians, greens, socialists, mainstream Dems, GOP . . . whatever) being forced to form coalition governments and make compromises to advance agendas that are shared by enough of the peoples’ representatives to give them political legitimacy.
What we have now with the duopoly is neither vis a vis your average citizen’s “interests”.
If only the saintly can criticize foreign policy views, we’d have to leave it out of the election entirely, and omit the arena perhaps most important to a presidential race given the oval office’s de facto unilateral power to get into all sorts of mischief.
The bolded bit above is not the argument. Nor even a reversal of it. Do you think there is no value to calling out outright lies? Is there no value to revealing the level of monstrosity in the hypocrisy?
Sanders isn’t as bad as Hillary but he also can’t credibly hold his opponent accountable for opinions ranging from the naive to the monstrous. He’s in the same boat.
I am not in favor of much of what Sanders does have in his foreign policy portfolio, but the Honduran example where Clinton’s state department supported a coup that is still leading to indigenous leaders being killed today – i.e. classic US “business, for business, as usual” – is a pretty different boat than the one Sanders has demonstrably occupied. He has a record of voting against interventions, while hers has been very pro-intervention.
Candidate in the could-conceivably-be- elected sense.
When you self-limit by buying into a trope that is in the process of demonstrable – if not quite yet *radical – change, you have become part of a worn self-fulfilling prophecy and a relief valve for the status quo.
Two years ago who would have predicted Trump could be in a position to easily win the Republican nomination? Or that a self-proclaimed socialist (of any stripe whatsoever) could seriously contend for the Democratic one? That the limits of conceivability are experiencing growth pains is true. Most of those ‘growth pains’ are being imposed by those whose niches have been greatly expanded by their active imposition and they are supported by those still comfortable to some degree or other within their own slowly dwindling niches. That can’t last forever.
The repudiation of the two-party system and against the oligarchy it has supported is underway though no one can accurately make predictions about where it will take us (even Nate Silver’s shooting blanks). It has been slow to take hold here as opposed to Europe and elsewhere, mostly because we, as a country, seem to be incredibly naive about doubting our “betters” and/or demanding that they indeed act better than those they preach against. But that demographic is aging out. If there’s one serious take-home lesson of this election season it’s that the younger folks aren’t extending unwarranted respect anymore. The “demos” part of democracy has been ignored/shat upon for far too long and it’s starting to germinate and propagate ideas of its own, good, bad and ugly.
What Pedinska said. Especially this bit:
Appreciate your response.
I read GG’s point that HRC’s campaign is not well suited to criticize Sanders on foreign policy because of her own poor record as implying that a politician with a “better” (more peaceful, less supportive of tyranny) record to be, well, better suited to make such criticisms of Sanders.
There is value in pointing out hypocrisy, and such hypocrisy is relevant to an honest evaluation of HRC’s sincerity. However, undermining the perceived sincerity of a speaker and actually challenging the veracity of their points are two different things. Everybody’s a hypocrite to some extent, but not everyone is wrong all the time. Hillary can be villainous to an extent that far outweighs Bernie’s foreign policy (moral) errors but still correctly point out Bernie’s errors.
I grant your point that’s it’s not really correct to say they’re “in the same boat” if that obfuscates the degree of severity in HRC’s FP record. But I wouldn’t hold my breath that if Sanders had been/was as powerful as Clinton, he’d be responsible for more innocent deaths than he currently is.
I also grant that unelectability is a self-fulfilling prophecy. That said, you think Jill Stein stands a chance? I wouldn’t even believe that someone actually believes that.
I agree with the sentiment of the last two paragraphs, though I am more pessimistic than you are regarding the direction of these changes. I’m gung ho to bring down the oligarchy, but Trump and Sanders are both harbingers of increased suffering in my opinion (in different ways).
You are 100% wrong as Hillary’s supporters usually are. These statements are taken out of context, but Hillary on the other hand has forced regime change in Lybia and other places. Many innocent people have died because of her Hawkish actions. It’s not just her being a Hawk, but she is one of the most corrupt politicians I have ever seen. Just look at all of the facts that have come out about Hillary’s State Department and the Clinton foundation and global initiative pay for play schemes. Hillary changes her mind easily especially when money is involved. For instance Hillary wrote the EPA trying to get a chemical banned or restrictions on it, the chemical was call Trichloroethylene or TCE and this chemical is toxic to pregnant women, fetus’s, babies, children, and the elderly. The EPA did not respond so in 2007 Hillary introduced a bill called The TCE Reduction Act of 2008. Dow chemical is the biggest producer and distributor of TCE. The bill had many co-sponsor’s on all sides of the isle from democrats, republicans, and independents and also had major support and would have helped her image when she ran against Obama to be POTUS because it is basically protecting pregnant women and their babies. Two months after the bill was introduced Dow Chemical guaranteed $30 million in loans for a clean water program in India that the Clinton Global Initiative was doing. Once the loans went through Hillary killed the TCE reduction bill even though it had so much bipartisan support, Hillary didn’t even try and bring it to a vote. A month after the bill died dow Chemical joint CGI. Dow also patterned with Teneo Holdings which is another Firm that has major ties to the Clinton’s. Dow once again started paying Teneo $2.8 million starting in 2011 and the payments ballooned to at least $16 million in 2012. Teneo is a private company, but Dow claims that the money that was given to Teneo was charitable, but Teneo is a private advisory firm and not a charity. I could go on and on about how Hillary has changed her position based on money. There was another chemical that she did the same thing as TCE where she came out against it, but once she got major contributions from the oil and gas industry her support to protect the American people from the toxic chemical disappeared. This is why we want to see her speech transcripts because we know that she says one thing to the American people, but behind close doors she makes assurances and promises to theses Wall Street firms, oil and gas corp’s, big insurance, big pharma, chemical corp’s, and so on and so forth. I’d like to see her tax returns, and those 30,000 emails that was on her private home-brew server she said were private and then deleted without any independent oversight. No one is going to had over evidence that will convict themselves especially Hillary Clinton. All I can say is thank god the FBI was able to recover the 30,000 emails that were deleted and that there is an investigation on her emails, server, and a seperate FBI investigation on Hillary’s State Department/Clinton Foundation and Global Initiative pay for play scheme under corruption laws. If I was Hillary and Bill I would be terrified about the FBI’s investigation into the Clinton Foundation and CGI. That is why Bernie is taking it all the way to the convention because the shoe is going to drop within the next few months. Hillary will lie, steal, cheat, and stonewall in order to try and get a vote to become POTUS. She would spit on a baby if it guaranteed a win. This is why she wont release the transcripts and it has everything to do with lying to the American people. She says look at my record, well her record shows her taking money from ever special interest group besides the NRA and shows that her policies are influenced by this money. John st look at her economic plan and how she wants to tax short term investment, but give breaks to long term investment. That would be well in good if she didn’t have huge ties to Black Rock and Larry Fink. Black Rock is largest asset management firm in the world controlling $4.6 trillion in investor funds. Lady Fink is on the short list for Hillary’s treasury secretary. He even hired Cheryl Mills Clinton’s most trusted confidant in order to insinuate himself into Clinton’s inner circle. He has also hired many other AIDS of Hillary’s and have also given contributions to her campaign, super PAC’s, and also the Clinton Foundation and CGI.
I’d rather put a hot poker through my eye than vote for Hillary.
All true. It seems to me that you think you’re addressing someone you’re not. You’re right that HRC is corruption personified. I would never dispute that.
What was it, that people were saying about Sanders being weak on foreign policy?
Could you ever in a million years imagine the Republicans or Clinton saying that? Maybe I spoke too soon…has Clinton already changed her position since the debate???
But he did not need to praise Fidel Castro he was to Kind in his criticism
There is not amount of good healthcare that justified oppression.
Hillary has done terrible things but that doesn’t make Bernie Sanders mistakes any better.
Being against USA imperialism doesn’t make you a saint ,many dictators have being against USA interventions and they still violate the human rights of their people take Hugo Chavez and his control of all communication mediums and his paranoia.
Sorry but Sanders is a politician and he makes mistakes and I dont understand how justified them makes him any better.
There is not amount of good healthcare that justified oppression.
Please link to the bit where Sanders has ever justified oppression. Please link to where HRC has ever criticized the oppression that resulted from Kissinger’s policies wrought in Latin America. Please link to where HRC has condemned the death of indigenous leaders that has resulted from her State Department’s support of the Honduran coup.
Apparently there are a number of people who believe that if someone has ever done a wrong thing, then every right thing they do forever after must be contrasted against that wrong thing because the people demanding this accounting can’t hold two opposing thoughts in their brains at the same time without insisting they are inexorably linked.
This is another reason the two-party system thrives in the United States.
But surely, surely – one can praise Castro’s healthcare system without condoning his oppressive regime. All Sanders was saying is that the US need not get involved. That was what the interview was about.
The interview from which that clip was taken, was about his opposition to the US stepping in and dictating what other nations need to do. It was the US-imposed embargo has only intensified Castro’s hold on Cuba, as the sanctions had done to Iraq under Saddam.