For months now, Donald Trump has been complaining about the level of violence inflicted on protesters at his campaign rallies. Complaining, that is, about protesters — who have been tackled and kicked, pushed, spat on, and sucker-punched — not being subjected to nearly enough violence.
In the latest instance, at a rally in St. Louis on Friday, Trump complained about the overly gentle treatment of protesters being dragged from a theater and things got ugly outside, as his supporters faced off with protesters.
WATCH: Donald Trump: "protesters realize there are no consequences to protesting anymore" https://t.co/ZaYFbSX991https://t.co/fkPqIksHzU
— ABC News Politics (@ABCPolitics) March 11, 2016
Trump informs crowd he is currently fantasizing about doing something to protesters, but "won't say what's on my mind." Crowd goes wild.
— Angelo Carusone (@GoAngelo) March 11, 2016
Battle lines drawn at Trump rally pic.twitter.com/Y9yRTnjOAm
— Trymaine Lee (@trymainelee) March 11, 2016
Bloodied at St. Louis Trump rally. pic.twitter.com/3O65vsktvS
— Trymaine Lee (@trymainelee) March 11, 2016
At a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina, on Wednesday, during which a black protester being led out by the police was elbowed in the face by a Trump supporter, the candidate voiced his regret in words he has used again and again.
On Weds in Fayetteville, NC @realDonaldTrump was again missing the "good ol' days" when you could beat protesters pic.twitter.com/SY1IdPGkUK
— Brian Ries (@moneyries) March 11, 2016
Two weeks earlier in Oklahoma, after he had to wait for the ejection of a protester wearing a yellow star with the word “Mexican” written on it, and a shirt reading “KKK Endorses Trump,” he returned to the same theme.
.@realDonaldTrump stared down a protester wearing a shirt that said 'KKK endorses Trump'https://t.co/NZ5Z9uOuSB
— Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) February 27, 2016
Four days before that, in Las Vegas, Trump was more direct about the kind of response he really wanted to see. After claiming, falsely, that a protester was ejected for “throwing punches,” Trump lamented: “We’re not allowed to punch back anymore. I love the old days — you know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher, folks.”
“I’d like to punch him in the face, I tell ya,” he added.
Given that Trump never tires of telling us that there was a golden era when protesters in America knew their place — or were too terrified to speak up — the question of when, exactly, these good old days began and ended has become the subject of speculation.
trump talking about making America great "again" is like an old person referring to segregation as "the good old days"
— Nyet (@niabraha) December 16, 2015
I always knew Donald Trump's supports wanted to go back to the "good old days." Who knew those days were Altamont?. #DonaldTrump
— Jason Elias (@Zebop) November 22, 2015
In the good old days Trump, your new black friend would have been enslaved. #msnbc #trumpdvote
— Fro in da Wind (@isawlauren) July 11, 2015
"There used to be consequences" for protesting, Trump said. pic.twitter.com/qlZWVhK0Sf
— Tom McGeveran (@tmcgev) March 11, 2016
Could Trump, who was born in 1946, be thinking of his teenage years, when the police were notoriously quick to resort to violence against peaceful black men, women, and children marching for civil rights?
"There used to be consequences" for protestors... pic.twitter.com/v3MkxM0dgB
— Julian Sanchez (@normative) March 11, 2016
Given Trump’s obvious fondness for the presidency of Richard Nixon, though — the posters evoking “the silent majority” of Americans who support him, the decades of advice from dirty trickster Roger Stone — my own guess is that he might be harking back to a moment in early 1970, when dozens of antiwar protesters in Trump’s own city did indeed require stretchers, after being attacked and beaten by construction workers loyal to Nixon.
The incident, which became known as “the hard-hat riot,” took place in May 1970, when a student demonstration against the killing of four protesters at Kent State University in Ohio by members of the National Guard was broken up with extreme violence by union members from nearby construction sites.
As the New York Times reported the next day:
Helmeted construction workers broke up a student antiwar demonstration in Wall Street yesterday, chasing youths through the canyons of the financial district in a wild noontime melee that left about 70 persons injured.
The workers then stormed City Hall, cowing policemen and forcing officials to raise the American flag to full staff from half staff, where it had been placed in mourning for the four students killed at Kent State University on Monday.
At nearby Pace College a group of construction workers who said they had been pelted with missiles by students from the roof, twice invaded a building, smashing windows with clubs and crowbars and beating up students.
The Times also reported that one of the construction workers, “who said he wished to remain anonymous for fear of his life,” said the attack on the anti-Nixon protesters was not spontaneous but had been organized by their employers and union leaders, who even arranged for the workers to be paid a bonus if they agreed to “break some heads.”
Nixon, who would go on to encourage Donald Trump to run for office, later gave tacit blessing to the attack on the protesters, by inviting the leaders of New York’s construction unions to the White House to thank them for their support.
Top: A file photo from May 8, 1970, showing an attack by pro-Nixon construction workers in New York on students protesting the fatal shootings at Kent State four days earlier.
Protesters are getting away with… murder?… because… we aren’t murdering them? Wat?
Trump now thinks his thuggish supporters should
disrupt Sanders’ events.
This highlights some truths which the democrat voters need to realize.
Hillary Clinton is not a threat to Trump.
If Trump wins, Hillary wins.
If Hillary wins, Trump wins.
Sanders supporters need to avoid becoming like Trump supporters.
Sanders needs to address the Trump supporters in a way
which intelligently shows that they are misguided. If he throws
them out, he will be acting like Trump.
This is not to say that Sanders will be able to change the
corruption if he is elected because his alignment within
the democrat version of corruption is not promising.
In the long run,
Sanders supporters must
politely reject both Trump and Clinton
and both fake corrupt corporate parties
if Sanders’ supporters are serious about change.
Oh boo hoo! The author apparently thinks that infiltrators who try to shout Trump down should be treated with respect. Because, you know, Trump is so horrible that normal rules should not apply to his rallies. I doubt the author would express similar feelings if his favorite candidate’s events were infiltrated by noisy Trump supporters. Hypocrite.
Trump *is* horrible. Do you think anything about his candidacy is “normal”? Trump’s “supporters” (aka thugs) actually beat up protesters and journalists. Is that normal?
Fire with Fire. The youth and the protestors should never be told or lectured to how to protest. He and his supporters are so tough, they are ready to prey on immigrants, minorities, “the weak”, well bring it on then. Only a fist back to the face will be respected, nip it in the bud like a stage 1 cancer, fight it “aggressively” and we have a chance. If all fascist rises were met by angry organized youth that are not necessarily peaceful, we may not be where we are and may have stopped ones like Hitler.
Shout him down if you’re so desperate to maintain the status quo, but just remember – his supporters will still show up at the voting booth & select who they choose.
Moveon.Org raising funds from Trump protests, warns more disruptions to come!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/13/moveonorg-raising-funds-from-trump-protests-warns-/
George Soros and the Establishment corporate press are co-conspirators. This is one major reason why people support Trump even though the following is true:
“Trump has an inordinately developed ‘cold empathy’: the kind of an ‘x-ray vision’ that allows him to immediately spot the vulnerabilities, weaknesses, and chinks in the armor of his interlocutors, adversaries, partners, and enemies and to leverage this knowledge to his benefit by penetrating their defenses. He therefore resonates powerfully and intimately with the hidden hopes, dreams, fantasies, delusions, and negative emotions (rage, hatred, fear) of his ‘constituencies.’ He is a consummate predator.”
Sad disingenuous article. These people aren’t protestors they are trespassing , breaking the law, and crashing a private party
Teens completely understand what Donald Trump means: ‘Trump’ as anti-Latino epithet: Ugly incidents at high school games
Excerpt:
Gee, I wonder why minorities are angry with Donald Trump, and protest his racist rallies?
Molly Crabapple is making tweets that look unstable:
http://www.infowars.com/vice-editor-jokes-about-trump-assassination-to-save-america-from-fascism/
Trump: The American Fascist
Viewing Donald Trump in light of the fascists of the first half of the 20th century helps explain what Trump is doing and how he is succeeding.
Excerpt:
And, he’s anti-intellectual. Not in the sense of rejecting elites, but in rejecting that there is wisdom to be found outside of what Every American decides is so.
For those who claim there has to be corporatism for a movement to be fascist, anyone who thinks Donald Trump won’t direct the course of U.S. business toward his nationalist ends is deluded. For one thing, the system for that is already well in place and has been for several decades in the Military Industrial Complex, the Security Industrial Complex, and also the Prison State Complex. Does anyone think Donald Trump won’t attempt to control those complexes? — he sure as hell isn’t going to abolish them.
The Trump movement is mindless, emotion-driven, strong-man worship. A strongman who has given the masses permission to release their hatreds of racial and religious minorities — claiming any objection is all “political correctness.”
It can happen here. It may already be.
Great excerpt. Hope folks start to listen.
Warren supporters behaving badly in Springfield, MA:
youtube.com/watch?v=THz8RlkrQPQ
youtube.com/watch?v=rJIUxBMXyQQ
What its demoralized antecedents did in a mid-century postscript to their National (as in NPR) Socialist Workers Party leader, a chastened progressive-left is now trying yet again today, by saying Obama is also not of the left.
Yet again, attempts to cleanse their hands of their embarrassing choices when they detect that the public discovers and disapproves of progressivism’s dark underbelly. Same book, same verse.
Nothing is ever the fault of the violent, authoritarian, invasive, progressive left.
You and some of the other Trump supporters here are wholly ignorant of where you are and the beliefs of The Intercept’s founding editors– as well as the commenters who came along with Glenn Greenwald when he, Jeremy Scahill and Laura Poitras founded this site over two years ago.
Greenwald and Scahill have blasted both Republican and Democratic presidents and other elected officials. They (rightly) see the United States as being run by a corrupt, war-mongering duopoly controlled by an oligarchy.
To say the Obamabots hate them would be to understate. To say they are hostile to Hillary Clinton would also be to understate. As for the media, Glenn Greenwald has contempt for 80% of establishment journalists. He mocks, ridicules and blasts them in his columns, books and to their faces on TeeVee.
This site and its writers have made no endorsements. However, it is clear that many of the readers are supportive of Bernie Sanders. Greenwald has differences with Sanders, but Greenwald’s own publicly advocated views most closely track with Sanders’ positions.
So, rant about “progressives” if it makes you happy. But at least know who and what you are railing against when you do it here.
On the tour consisting of Jacob G. Hornberger, Bruce Fein, and Glenn Greenwald, Mr. Hornberger spoke up front of leaving it up to the audience to decide which was the “libertarian,” which was the “conservative,” and which was the “liberal.”
Can you guess?
Does the Intercept care to put up any articles written by the first two?
What has that got to do with what I wrote — with the facts I stated?
Nicely said, very nice.
All of this talk here about where Trump falls politically is pointless. The man’s a reality star opportunist and nothing other. He spouts the same half dozen catch phrases over and over again an relies on the idiocy of the masses to carry him. However, unless he actually receives the nomination, he’s nothing more than a flushed retard prancing about the stage like a court jester for our collective amusement.
I’m not “amused,” and I wonder, judging by your comment, how, if in any way at all, do you think his possible nomination should be countered during the actual primary in which he is attempting to be nominated? Since you’ve stated that it’s “pointless” to rebut anything he says, and pointless to notice and comment on his campaign and the media surrounding and catapulting his campaign, and the people who are enthusiastically intending to make his campaign a winning campaign, what is left that wouldn’t be “pointless” for people concerned about his actually being nominated to do about it?
I really wish people who talk about ‘fascism’ would actually go and study the rise of fascism in Germany. There are a couple of really good books on the subject:
“Hell’s Cartel: IG Farben and the Making of Hitler’s War” by Diarmuid Jeffreys
“Hitler’s Scientists: Science, War, and the Devil’s Pact” by John Cornwell
What you find is that the fascist leadership relied entirely on a large network of corporate cartels in Europe and, yes, America, for funding and support – and the fascist leadership, in concert with the corporate leadership, consolidated their power by filling the corporate director’s boards and government bureaucracies and academic institutions and military officer’s corps with their supporters.
And yes, the fascist movement was not limited to Germany, see this detailed evidence:
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/american_supporters_of_the_europ.htm
“Some of the primary and more famous Americans and companies that were involved with the fascist regimes of Europe are: William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK’s father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush, National City Bank, and General Electric. It should be noted that businessmen from many countries, including England and Australia, also worked with the fascist regimes of Europe prior to WWII.”
So, who in the U.S. has behaved this way recently? The neoconservatives, that’s who – certainly not an outsider like Trump. Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rove and Bush were the closest thing this country has seen to a fascist leadership since the days of Nixon (who spawned them, really).
Think about it: Cheney tried to fill the State Department and other federal bureaucracies with neocons, Rumsfeld tried to take over the Pentagon, Rove and Bush swung corporate campaign donations to neocon Republicans in exchange for billions in Iraq contracts (see The Halliburton Agenda), the goal being ‘a permanent Republican majority’ – and, as in German fascism, it was all going to involve a massive foreign military effort – in their case, invading Iraq, then going on to Syria and Iran, and then to Central Asia.
That’s what real fascism looks like – and anyone who calls Trump a “fascist” just doesn’t understand what the word means. If you want to call him names, you could use, I don’t know, a blowhard self-promoter, a populist rabble rouser, etc. – but ‘fascist’ just doesn’t apply. He doesn’t have the network behind him.
And as far as racist strategies? The neocons outdid Trump on that on every angle, such as using the FBI and DHS to investigate Muslims in the United States (but not investigating Saudi money flowing to terrorism), trying to create a climate of fear and hate with their ‘color alerts’, trying to set up a domestic police state based on mass surveillance, with Muslims being of ‘special interest’, as well as their continued program of putting record numbers of blacks and latinos in prison on drug charges (but not wealthy whites), using ICE to target immigrant populations. That’s just, well, standard Republican party politics, across the board. Singling out Trump for that? Hard to buy.
So, please, learn what fascism really means before throwing the term around so loosely.
Neocons (aka leftist, Rockefeller Republicans)–as well as their progressive confederates across the aisle, among them Woodrow Wilson. Margaret Sanger had an admirer in the National (i.e., NPR) Socialist Workers Party overseas.
Leftism is their common thread. Invasiveness, control–compliance is mandatory for leftist utopia du jour–‘science’ worship, the state knows best, the nanny.
Hey man, did you take a wrong turn from the Alex jones forums? People actually have facts here.
Ah, lots of far-right wing types were Hitler supporters, and later went on to form outfits like the John Birch Society – but look at Henry Ford (yes, of Ford Motor Company), as a more typical Nazi supporter (Hitler kept his image on his office wall) or Walter Teagle of Standard Oil, whose close ties with I.G. Farben included fueling Hitler’s planes and U-boats.
The central American Constitutional policy which opposes right-wing fascism (and yes left-wing communism) is the Separation of Powers clause – and that’s what the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rove agenda was all about, packing the judicial, legislative and executive branches with their proto-fascist right-wing supporters in a bid to break down that clause.
Separation of powers exists precisely so that efforts to create an authoritarian dictatorship (aka a ‘monarchy’ in 18th century terms) would founder; it worked as designed in the downfall of the radical right-wing neocons.
Name one. Conservatives are revulsed by anything with “Socialist Workers Party” on the label. Unlike the progressive left.
That must be why the left (1.) adoringly invoked the urban myth that Ford paid his workers well enough to afford his cars, as well why (2.) Ford established the universally acknowledged left wing Ford Foundation.
And Standard Oil was Rockefeller (in whose name the equally progressive left Rockefeller Bros. Foundation was established).
Great post. Worth reading.
I have not read any of the comments. However, imho, the following articles need to be read……hopefully, will cool passions and tempers… and make one pause and think…
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-rage-and-the-derp–2
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/social-justice-warriors-will-elect-trump/
How Socialism, Communism, Fascism are All the Same
https://youtu.be/005cahIsSXE
http://www.infowars.com/this-is-what-msm-is-hiding-at-trump-rallies/
Infowars is such a mixed bag. Sometimes they seem like total crackpots, and other times they are spot on. I would agree with their premise in this case, that MSM highlights frictions at Trump rallies, rather than rapprochements, because it advances the media’s anti-Trump agenda, right or wrong. But when that woman in the video started blathering about “the love of Jesus Christ,” my fingers began to itch.
Are the Trump rallies more fractious than others? I honestly have no idea. It’s hard to which “opinions” to trust!
what is this site, another soros laugh machine?
she is a piece of sht, always has been a piece of sht and here you are, selling sht to any one who wants to eat sht.
If Trump believes protests should have consequences, as he says, he doesn’t believe in the right of free assembly. But I suppose that’s the least surprising thing about a proto-fascist.
I’m reminded of the Pussy Riot case. In 2012, the band Pussy Riot disrupted a church service with a rock performance. I mean, that’s a disruption. Band members were sentenced to 2 years in prison, even though there was substantial opposition to their prosecution even within Russia. It was a huge international scandal.
Hitler’s rise to power was supported by the SA or Brownshirts who violently suppressed protesters at Hitler’s rallies. Trump would do well to remember, as Hitler learned, that violent supporters can become a threat. Hitler felt obliged to eliminate the SA leadership when they became a threat to his power.
We would do well to remember that in the early days Hitler was seen as a somewhat comical and boorish buffoon. Our failure to take seriously the threat posed to our country and our democracy by Trump’s rants is real. The fact that his supporters seem to be blind to this threat is profoundly disturbing.
@AB6JK –
Yes, I agree – for the most part, especially that we failed to take seriously this threat much earlier.
But this nutjob has said or done nothing so far that indicates these violent supporters can become a threat. He seems to offer noting but encouragement, fanning the flames, denying responsibility and spewing hate and denigrating protesters.
Yes, that he has any supporters — and that so many are blind to the dangers is extremely disturbing.
PRAY!
It’s symptomatic of the progressive left’s inability to make accurate forecasts and decisions. Its adherents don’t think very well.
B. S.! We think well. Enough NOT to support some thuggish, dangerous egomaniac nutjob. Spreading hate and advocating people get beaten up is just disgusting, period.
I like Trump. I don’t agree with him on civil liberties but he’s the first in generations that would end the neocon infestation of both major parties as well as our government. He stated he will _not_ increase military spending and finally end these God awful wars after the U.S. created jihadists in Syria are dealt with. Add to that the ending of the TPP and renegotiating other trade agreements and he’s got my vote. There is hate going on, but its not coming from Trump’s supporters. It coming from agitators that continually disrupt his rallies. They have no right to do this and I really don’t give a damn what happens to them. After seeing what these people did Friday, i’m angry as hell. And I’m a liberal!
Youre no liberal. We wouldnt have you.
Well no, I am actually very liberal according to the many tests I’ve taken in the past. The difference between you and me is that I deeply care about the millions of innocent people who have died thanks to Obama, Hillary, and Bush. I cannot take seeing any more pictures of dead and bloodied children and innocents in Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Ukraine, Libya and God knows where else these psychopaths will next attack. There is no issue that matters to me more than to _stop_ this. Bernie’s answer? “To support our Sunni allies (ie. Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Turkey) so they can destroy ISIS.” You know– the very same countries that have CREATED ISIS to overthrow Assad in the never-ending Shia/Sunni conflict that has been ongoing for centuries. Bernie’s “”solution”” is to continue Obama’s proxy wars that have murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and created millions of refugees. Kind of like Bernie’s vote to bomb Libya, and Bernie’s vote to bomb Yugoslavia — and of course in both cases the results have been devastating for the people. Add that to Bernie’s vote to train, fund and arm Nazi’s in Ukraine against the ethnic Russians in the east (6000 innocents who have now died). Screw Bernie, he’s another damned fascist for the MIC and to hell with the lives of millions of innocent people. Just as long as trillions are spent for his F-35!
I’m not the kind of “liberal” that gives a crap about what somebody “says”. I care about what people actually “do”. Words do not hurt me, bombs do. Trump’s so-called ‘sins’ are not even in the same category as what the Obama, Hillary, Bush psychopaths are in. And he is the first president in my lifetime (with the exception of JFK) that actually wants to destroy U.S. foreign policy and clean up the mess that the warmongers have made. ISIS is a U.S. creation: he wants to clean that up quickly then get the hell out of the middle east. He wants to get along with Putin and end Obama’s new cold war. He wants to close U.S. military bases all over the world that are costing an arm and a leg. There’s nothing I want more than to end this empire, and he’s the only one with the strength and the guts to tell the generals, the special interests, and the MIC to go to h***. He’s a wild card and I’m willing to take a chance on him because in 56 years there’s been no one willing to end empire and no one else that has even said they wanted to.
That sounds like very privileged reasoning to me. Sure, let’s elect a probable fascist to stick it to the neocon agenda. It probably won’t affect me personally very much.
The progressive left has the corner on it. The mid-century’s most notorious fascist edited Italy’s Socialist newspaperAvanti! (“Forward!”)
Fascists do adopt economic populism, as I’m sure Trump will if he’s nominated. He would even call himself a “socialist” if he thought that could be helpful. That playbook is well known. The Nazi party started out as the German Workers Party and then changed its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party, all while being very much anti-Marxist. Indeed, Hitler’s rise to power included fighting the Communist Party of Germany. The Communists and the Nazis were very popular following the great depression. The parallels are significant.
You can’t tell if someone is fascist by their professed economic policy. There are other characteristics you need to look at.
You’ll first have to reconcile what self respecting conservative would show up on the stoop of a function with the word “Workers” anything (nevermind “Socialist”) scribbled above the doorbell. We know leftists do that.
The progressive left also has a rich legacy of internecine rivalry.
Mao vs. Jiang. Brezhnev vs. Mao. Shining Path vs. MRTA. UNITA vs. MPLA. Pol Pot vs. Vietnam. Everybody wants to be a chief.
Are you saying Republicans would never claim to be on the side of the American worker? That’s just patently false.
One thing a leftist would never do is say he’s anti-Marxist, a key characteristic of Hitler. A leftist would never advocate homophobia, hatred of a minority, sexual repression, anti-intellectualism or nativism.
The taboo about the word “socialist” just doesn’t exist outside the US, much less in the 1930s. You really can’t make anything out of politicians trying to associate themselves with its prestige. The kind of word association game you’re trying to play can’t withstand even superficial analysis.
Oh yeah? Warren supporters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THz8RlkrQPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJIUxBMXyQQ
They have always been. What they’ve never been is naming things “Workers Party,” “Working Families,” “Workers of the World Unite.” That’s universally understood to be a leftist phenomenon since 1848. Conservatives are historically repulsed by such newspeak. Adding “Socialist” as an adjective doesn’t help.
Jose, if you only knew what many progressive-liberal Workers say behind the backs of their coworkers.
“…convert the German Volk to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists.”
–Adolph Hitler
What Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism failed to accomplish, we shall be in a position to achieve.”
–Adolph Hitler
“If we are socialists, then we must definitely be anti-semites – and the opposite, in that case, is Materialism and Mammonism, which we seek to oppose.” “How, as a socialist, can you not be an anti-semite?”
–Adolph Hitler
“…find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution”.
–Adolph Hitler
“Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings.”
–Adolph Hitler
“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions”
–Adolph Hitler, 1927
So? Like I said, Hitler’s party had “socialist” in its name. They obviously wanted to associate themselves with it. Socialism was popular in Germany at the time. What you haven’t shown is that Hitler’s overall ideology was leftist rather than what it obviously was: a far right ideology.
The racism meme of divide and conquer is over the Ziomsm today.Will the American people let themselves be divided by our bane once again?Stay tuned!
How about the hell bitch being a GW girl,and bent dick with his sambo polishing watermelon racist card to maw maw as evidence of racism?Oh,no the shrub racist?How many dead Iraqis for Zion?How about those monsters,whose racism exudes daily,all part of our govt and media,calling Trump racist.And you idiots fall for it!
What a charade.
Trump needs to flip the dialog. He has to go from condemning the protesters to applauding the police.
Trump should say something like:
Being angry all the time won’t work. He needs to change it up and laugh a bit.
Trump opposes TPP. He wants to dial back most American wars and go after ISIS. In short he is a populist.
His supporters have a right to go to his political rallies without being threatened.
He opposes just about everything the neolibcons want.
That is what amazes me about the resistance to him from people here,all over words already action by those who oppose him.
Self haters and holier than thou hypocrites,I guess.
Soros.He did it!Wouldn’t surprise me in the least.(Move on .org)
He has probably gone about as far as he can with his stream of consciousness campaigning. He will have to sit down and remember or at least figure out why he is in this race. He should laugh off the protesters and say something like:
“I’m in this race to make America Great Again, but people like that are going to make it a lot harder.”
“Are these people saying they don’t want decent jobs back in America?”
“Are they saying leave the border wide open to drugs, crime and maybe even terrorism?”
“Should I stop trying to Make America Great Again and just let the middle-class collapse?”
He needs a few zingers, a couple of Reagan-like jokes to cover the awkward bit when they are dragging the protesters out.
The media is pretty two faced about protesters. Here is Code Pink protesting Henry Kissenger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRvl0SngH0k
They’re so mind controlled, they won’t cease monetarily supporting a periodical with ‘Digital Subscriptions’ that pulls out all the stops to marginalize their Democratic Socialist Party dissident candidate.
Yeah, that’s what we give MoveOn.org donations for, you idiot.
Americans deserve a ~5/1000 Year Reich, fronted by a bobbing head doll called Trump, Clinton, or Sanders. Cannibalize youself. (Yeah you, Nazi-Fuck dahoit.)
More than a decade of your evil shit stain of a country’s Stasi Zersetzung torture has not suceeded in its objective of murdering me, but it has accomplished something: giving me the intestinal fortitude to not look the other way while you set yourself on fire. It has afforded me something I did not posses twenty years ago — the ability to enjoy the show.
Americans! Do the species a favor and swirl the drain a bit more quickly, please. Vote for a Republican, a Democrat, or something in between, this November. All you have to do is vote for anything in electable category.
And we all get to witness the American Empire in it’s death throes.
When Trump supporters aren’t yelling at a Dutch journalist “Go to Auschwitz!”:
Video Shows Man At Trump Rally Shouting “Go Back To Africa”
Trump is to blame for a bunch of idiots disrupting his political rallies?Remember the shrub wouldn’t even let them in?My God,there must have a journalism school for morons.
Is Trump denying free speech,or are the protesters?Who da Nazis(Commies,same sh*t,just different propaganda)?
Why aren’t they at the hell bitches rallies?You know,the criminal who has actually been a criminal?How about outside the drone kings palace?
Amazing Move on .coms resurrection after the silence of the last 10 years or so.
And the fact that trump employs more Latinos or blacks than any candidate,and has improved their economic situation far more than the demoncrat and rethugs is also uncommented on by the serial liars.
Ah. Yes, I had learned you are an anti-semite, so it makes sense you sympathize with Donald Trump. (One of his supporters last night screamed at a Dutch journalist: “Go to Auschwitz! Go to fucking Auschwitz!”)
Civil disobedience against a fascist racist is noble. Many of us have wondered “what we would have done when it happened there.” Well, we could be the “there” now.
Show US evidence of Trumps antisemitism.His daughter is married to a Jew.(Same as mine,poopyhead)
Hatred and dislike are two different attitudes.One is irrational,and one is learned.Do I like Jews?Eh,some are nice,but most are inculcated with the sense that they are chosen people,which in turn,logically promotes dislike of would be gods.
Can you point out in the history of this planet where people have said they like the Jews?History has shown the opposite.Is this dislike rooted in jealousy?A little I’m sure,as Jews are the most successful wealth gatherers in the world.Is this dislike rooted in their clannishness?Yeah,they are the most borgish of all religious groups,witness the universal hatred for trump.
But most of the dislike is because they have absconded with the US govt.,made it their securitization and expansion arm,and steal out treasure and lifeblood with all their Unconsitutional support for bad SC and political shenanigans which have enabled their thievery,along with the plethora of Zionists in MSM applauding every destructive act.
So I’m a bad guy for not liking criminals?
You are pathetic.
Donald Trump is to all racism — including antisemitism — what a hot, moist environment is to mold. It grows exponentially under his careful cultivation. He has unleashed a Great Ugly Horror.
The GOP was his John the Baptist, preparing the way over the course of decades, with it’s Southern Strategy, hate radio, dogwhistling and winking at racism. Trump is their monster whom they cannot control.
Pat Buchanan was too soon. The time was not right. It is now.
Please give examples of Donald Trump acting racist or saying racism?
If so,the Zionists would have already hit him with it.
The worst racists in the world.haha.
Pat Buchanan was not Donald trump,he was russophobic,and anti commie hysteria infected.Although i think he’s mellowed.
But I voted for him,PB in 2000,as the only American candidate.
Yeah,maybe he wants the Dutch guy to check out the remodeling of it.To make it more convincing,they increased the shower areas.
Holy poopies,are you a propagandist or what?
Today I saw a yahoo post where they actually said that the inmates at a particular CC died of malnutrition,disease,gassing and neglect.
Wow,a little reality at last.
And before the propagandist calls me a denier,I’ve never heard anyone deny that Hitler put his political enemies in CCs and that many many died.It is the methodology and intent that some question,and the unnamed amount of survivors which would verify those claims of suspicion of serial liar claims.
The worlds oldest man is a CC survivor.The alleged survival of so few makes that a statistical anomaly.
You are foul. Foul. An antisemitic piece of filth. I shall engage you no further other than to alert others to what you are.
BTW,poopie head,I’ll vote for Sanders in the NY primary,to expose my rabid antisemitism.What a maroon.
Did you see Krauthammer’s piece at WaPo about Sanders entitled, “The Holocaust and Jewish Identity?”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-holocaust-and-the-jewish-identity/2016/03/10/0cfe842c-e702-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html
I found myself in the rare position of kind of AGREEING with some of CK’s points. Interesting.
Oh dear, this is cause for concern. A Charles Krauthammer column makes a lot of sense to me. Except for his bit about “Jewish sovereignty” his is a pretty good description of what I like about the liberal, and even radical, Jewish tradition.
As he notes, Jewish kids in Israel are taken to concentration camps. At least as the program has been, I find it abhorrent. An Israeli documentarian made the film Defamation, depicting how these kids are terrorized by their teachers into believing that the whole world still wants to kill them (hence they better grab a gun and fight for Israel) while pondering Auschwitz, the ovens etc.
The 2009 documentary is 90 minutes long but I cannot recommend it highly enough. (It also tackles Abe Foxman, the ADL and Americans who shriek “antisemitism” far too casually.) The scenes of the Israeli teens being brainwashed turned my stomach.
It’s the most horrific type of child-indoctrination I’ve ever witnessed and I feel it rose to child abuse.
“Irony.” Mona has heard of it.
This also pretty good if you have not seen:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/03/10/new-research-paper-on-israels-borders-and-international-law/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_volokh
A lively discussion ensues.
Oh. My. God. I had no idea about all the history here… How did I stumble into this mess?
Kraphammer just glazed over this minor incident …
Rebirth? How about establishment of Jewish sovereignty at the expense of Palestine.
In other words, now that the Holocaust™® has been used to establish the Jewish state, it’s really time we deemphasize it.
More non-Jews died in the camps than Jews; roughly 7 million vs 6 million.
Jewish exceptionalism is ingrained in Jewish culture, hence the idea that a culture that was essentially wiped out 2000 years ago may be reborn. That is as foolish as the Italians suddenly laying claim to London because of the Roman presence 2000 years ago.
6 million bullshit.
“6” and six orders of magnitude multiples thereof appear to hold some sort of qabalistic fascination with whoever started and wish to propagate the numerical myth.
1906:
“Startling reports of the condition and future of Russia’s 6,000,000 Jews….”
query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50A16FF3A5A12738DDDAC0A94DB405B868CF1D3
1921:
_”BEGS AMERICA SAVE 6,000,000 IN RUSSIA
query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F60A12FA3C551A738DDDA90A94DF405B818EF1D3
1938:
_”PERSECUTED JEWS SEEN ON INCREASE; Dr. Kahn Returns With Report of Rise in Europe of Those Deprived of Rights 6,000,000 VICTIMS NOTED 25,000 Refugees Said to Be in Need–Rumania Menaces 800,000 With Anti-Semitism”_
select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10D17FB385415768FDDA00894D9405B888FF1D3
1943:
“Of these 6,000,000 Jews almost a third have already been….”
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ30DEqxVkcWDL2Y_6B_q_dZ6VScgpaArhoyF-MycmGJrb4Kstp
What’s the fixation, before Nuremberg, with 6,000,000? Elsewhere, others report 236 references to 6,000,000 Jews prior to the Nuremberg Trial announcement.
“A culture that was essentially wiped out 2000 years ago?” I don’t think so. But I agree with your first point.
Objectively, the protesters are being denied their free speech. Only the state can infringe on someone’s free speech rights.
He is to blame for encouraging violence and division. This didn’t happen in a vacuum. There will always be people who are more prone than others to respond. A leader should be there to unite people, not encourage chaos.
The Trump supporter is more likely to be uneducated, white, poor, unemployed, living in a mobile home, and in a county that supported segregationist George Wallace:
Thumbing your nose at the unwashed and unlearned again?
You are a pathetic illiberal hypocrite,not admitting that the poor have not been served by their govt in education,jobs,infrastructure,foreign policy,banking,and just about every area that govt is alleged to be helpful,while they massage banksters and war criminals.
I guess the illegals aren’t stealing your job,elitist?
All I can do is hope America sees through the steaming mass of illiberal BS foisted on US by yuppie scum.
I recited the demographic facts of Trump supporters. Facts just are.
How about the black athletes (Graun)who came out for Trump?
The support for trump is from patriotic Americans unaffected by wacko heretics,Zionists and those who won’t believe serial lying MSM polls,statistics or propaganda.
Go vote for your mentor,the hell bitch.
So you are also illiterate. That I frequently write in passionate support of Bernie Sanders, and with absolute loathing of Hillary Clinton, slipped right past you, eh?
As for some black guy supporting Sanders, Samuel L. Jackson found it difficult playing him on film. Of course, this guy could be mentally ill.
Again,it was a group of black athletes,although that ziorag might have taken off its website,too counter prevailing(monas) narrative.
Seriously, you seem to know the Black condition. You seem to know the Jewish condition. You seem to even know the Palestinian condition. But truth be told you don’t have the slightest clue of the ‘po’ white condition. Yes, dear poor whites who live in a mobile home…you have no voice nor complaint about your/my condition…only contempt. We are not in the equation because of our skin color…and the fact that we could not afford to go to Yale. But remember there was a man called Hugo Chavez…and he was a (Huge) success…and those who looked down upon the poor became poor.
Oh really? At one time my family was on food stamps. My first child was born in poverty and without health insurance. The struggle I went through to obtain an education — while raising 3 children — was incredibly onerous. (My husband also was going to college while supporting us on a janitor’s wages.)
It is a fact, unfortunately, that racism correlates with poverty and lack of education in whites. To recite this fact is not to “look down on whites.” However, a significant percentage of poor whites support Bernie Sanders– not the fascist Trump.
The poor Sanders supporters of all races are choosing the Scandinavian model, not Italy or Germany in the first half of the 20th century.
“(My husband also was going to college while supporting us on a janitor’s wages.)”
Is there any other contemptible job that is beneath your level of acceptance? Your judgmental bias toward any job that typifies ‘ignorant, uneducated, and low paying’ puts you in the very state of being a high minded supremacist. You seem to delight in exploiting all things lower than your class. And you sound as if no one else has struggled or is struggling.
James 4:12
12 There is {only} one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?
You and other Trump supporters here are evil, racist, Holocaust-denying antisemitic fascists. When there is so much economic hardship fascism is virtually always a huge danger. And with it the scapegoating of racial, religious and other kinds of minorities.
Bernie Sanders is for the working class and for those who need a live-able safety net. But unlike your Vile Leader, he’s not racist and is an ardent civil libertarian.
You could support the poor by supporting Bernie. But you are a racist and so Trump appeals to you much more.
I never wanted to live in a time where I’d have to answer: “What would you have done.” But I fear I am. And that’s true even if Trump loses in the general. The fascist movement he’s unleashed and brought together isn’t going anywhere.
I weep for my country and its people.
“But unlike your Vile Leader, he’s not racist and is an ardent civil libertarian.”
I have no Vile Leader. You assume way to much and you and your kind are transparently fake and outwardly ignorant. I favor no man nor woman…nor vote for their corruption unlike you. You trash with your own mouth selective groups and then you “weep for (uh-um) your country and it’s people”… Selective of course is the name of your game. You surely don’t help your Leader much by showing and disdaining America’s people. So let everyone be accountable for the corruption they “vote” for…
“Bernie Sanders is for the working class and for those who need a live-able safety net. But unlike your Vile Leader, he’s not racist and is an ardent civil libertarian.”
I have witnessed your BS sucking up to BLM and their unworthy actions of thuggery. Also charming with a spell the Arab/Muslim community to get their votes. But to the “white” community, he tells them to “Shut Up” at a Town Hall Meeting…because they had the audacity to bring up legitimate concerns for Palestinians and the Gaza War. Yes this BS is for Israel he makes perfectly clear…and he also has AIPAC on his team. How suitable to be side-lining the issue. But hey…you don’t seem to weep for them (Palestinians) and their people. At least I have NO GUILT NOR BLOOD UPON MY HANDS by voting for consistent corruption of the powers that be, nor pay them with extorted taxes. Who ever gets the vote…I don’t even believe it will be a true and fair election. Democracy is and has been totally gone. Whatever your hatred towards me (without cause)…is your own. At least I have peace.
Good tennis match.
You are witnessing a social/political movement . .the last chance for the White demographic to stop the reverse facism of political correctness and non white racial superiority . If the Africans continue to try to intimidate assault politically rallies, no maker box unpleasant, u are NOT DE OR ATI and you are on the slippery slope to racial civil war. The blacks may want to start it. But they won’t finish it.so sad
Just confirming again and again what a spineless piece of shit he is.
Yes,Obomba does recall gumby,the spineless.
The protestors want to incite a riot and shut down free speech. It appears the left wing group Move-On, funded by Nazi collaborator George Soros, is behind it. Reminds me of Hitler’s Brown Shirts.Trump is fighting the democrats, the republican establishment, and the media, and amazingly he is winning. This latest attempt to smear will only make him stronger.
We live in an oligarchy; we thought we lived in a Republic. But uneducated people called it a democracy. Having a large middle class effected some control on the Elite as did labor unions and fairly decent educational institutions. Even mainstream Christianity had some modifying power. After the coup d’ tate of 1963 the nation went down hill. I am by no means convinced that the American public would even recognize a good candidate assuming one came along. Obama may have been something of an idealist to begin with, but he lacked the intelligence, the experience and the courage to do much more than the Elite demanded. And frankly based on his problems with forming good sentences I think he may be an example of what too much pot can do to an adolescent! Now I had hoped at one point that the Intercept would produce some outstanding political commentary, but frankly I am disappointed. Personally I go to people like Paul Craig Roberts, Michael Hudson, Jim Fetzer, Jon Rappaport, etc. for that. Intercept writes more for the young and reckless. Or ? Even the Real News Network seems unable to really get hold of much most of the time–Bill Black is a good exception to the rule. Maybe the writers here are too young and too much taken up with social movements. America has three critical problems: a great lack of decent middle class jobs, it is poisoning the environment including the citizens; and it can not stop killing the civilians of other nations. Racism, sexism, etc. are really minor problems that probably get aggravated by too much attention.
So, without probably realizing it Intercept has become sort of entertainment with many of its articles. But then maybe that was its goal. To be a bit serious but not too much. Maybe the periodicals main source of money is himself not all the keen on too much Truth. I wouldn’t know.
This is the problem with democracy when one con artist hijacks the entire election process and threatens to change the entire character of the country, while the rest can only watch in dismay. That is what the people against Donald Trump are saying.
On the other hand, this democracy is being manipulated already. Those pretending to be piously performing public service are actually servicing their own greed. The worst offenders are the black lives matter people who don’t seem to have any morality whatsoever, except just two people – MLK Jr up there and Sufi Muslim here.
So this is a reaction to a really bad situation, and we had it coming to us. Now if we complain saying Trump is this and he is that then probably we are ignoring the equal amount of corruption in all the alternative options.
“hijacks the entire election process ”
Seems to me Trump has used the media to his advantage, and his message has gained support from the masses. Exactly how does that equate to “hijacks the entire election process “?
Does the same apply to Bernie for his mass appeal as well?
Oh,yeah,Trump saying things the MSM don’t want to hear or be disseminated among the poor unwashed,and he’s using the media?Jeez,the hatred for him is palpable.The zionists hair is on fire.
The MSM is trying their utmost to demonize him.If one can’t see that,one should crawl in a hole and die already.
Hopefully it will all backfire,as it has already.
Thankfully the entire MSM is supporting Donald Trump, although they have to do it surreptitiously as some of the stuff he is saying is very offensive to people still having some kind of remnants of morality. I know for sure MSNBC reporters are queuing up in front of his door with their begging bowls and leaving voice-mails when he isn’t around, and the Foxy ones are brave enough to be open about it. The rest just don’t to be excluded from the Trump White House daily briefings, dinner parties and free plane rides, so they know how to deal with the emerging trends. It won’t be long before Comrade Lin Ming’s job is brought back here, so that’s why he is agitated. Good luck and amen.
Labor’s always had a tough time deciding which side of the bread their butter is on.
Here’s a little bit of inadvertent truth: just now Trump was promising that he’d get protesters arrested, and this would “ruin their lives” because they wouldn’t be able to get a job on account of whatever banner-waving charge might go on their records.
But isn’t Trump the jobs-out-the-wazoo president? Going to throw out the illegals, going to bring American companies home, going to promote job creation, going to come up with these super smart policies and play to win for the American people? Why, I thought all our prospects would be as rosy as they are for a Trump University graduate!
Why, if someone with a banner-waving incident is going to have trouble finding a job, what about the long-term unemployed, the people with poor education, or who fail whatever psychological aptitude test they’re supposed to take to prove that they’re perfectly pre-adapted for a particular job? What about the people who posted the wrong Tweet, were photographed on the wrong street, backed the wrong candidate in the 2016 primary?
This is a shot across the bow, a warning to whatever discerning viewers were watching. Trump is going to focus on job creation, and he’s going to focus on it by cutting taxes for the very rich and abandoning all support for the poor. Maybe the lucky ones will find work with the Mexican cartels, shooting their way through Trump’s super-duper wall to help bring in paying immigrants. The rest might as well go down and offer themselves on Moloch’s altar right now.
@-mona-
“Flirting with the Klan”? How many times do progressive leftists ask the same question?
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/703996959544250373
Where was the left when he was making money for Hollywood, instead of publicizing anti-globalist reforms in pursuit of a seat of political leverage?
Flirting with the Klan.
It sounds like he’s not even listening to Tapper at that point, or didn’t hear that he said, “The Ku Klux Klan.” Paragraphs 2 and 4 read like continuations of stream of thought.
You are evil.
More BS from mona.She is captured by her biases.
Tapper is a serial liar.So his opinion has weight with you?Wow.
@-Mona-
Prove it. His supporters are 100% Caucasian; have you ever seen a bigger sea of white? It’s Operation Snowflake:
theintercept.com/2015/12/17/wheres-bernie-media-ignores-sanders-though-hes-more-popular-than-trump/
“Prove it. His supporters are 100% Caucasian; have you ever seen a bigger sea of white? It’s Operation Snowflake”
White people are white supremacists wherever there are a lot of them?
I guess that’s bad news for Scandinavia.
You’re the same commentator who, on a Guardian thread, is down with progressive leftist New York City inviting TSA blueshirts into subway turnstile lobbies for rolling searches.
So you’re attempting to brace your argument by using a theoretically homogeneous population, while ignoring one with a history of amalgamation and divisiveness? Not the most logical response.
BTW, have you checked out what’s happening in Sweden lately?
Swedes can’t be racist!They are socialists!sheesh.
We are all racists.I saw mona cross the street.
Bernie has been endorsed by a long list of prominent African-Americans: Spike Lee, Harry Belafonte, Cornel West, Ben Jealous and the Black Lives Matters activist Shaun King. Also, Erica Garner, the daughter of Eric Garner who was choked to death by NYC police.
Last Tuesday, Bernie won Michigan because 30% of the state’s African-Americans voted for him, as well as a huge majority of Arab-Americans.
And the other 70 % voted for their enemy.What a bunch of knuckleheads.
There are virtually none for a very simple reason: They are all attending Trump’s rally.
Is that why all the black voters of the South rejected BS?He is a white racist?Or are they racist?Impossible says mona.
I’m still waiting for MSM queries about that naked antisemitism.Not good for divide and conquer,yet,they’ll spring it in the future,the monsters.
Veterans of the same clandestine disinfo projects that were used in North Africa within the last decade–promoted and generously underwritten by progressive-leftist Big Government–are being marshaled anew, this time against an anti-globalist candidate at odds with their bosses in order to attempt to discredit him. You have a live, front row seat.
The new manufactured theme is “violent rallies.”
Wouldn’t you be more contented and familiar with Marco, with Kasich? How about a little moderation? Why you no like Jeb?
Ah, consider the following possibility:
After the Karl Rove seminar at the Sea Island summit, backers of Cruz and Rubio could have decided to use their political operatives to stage violence at Trump rallies in classic agent provocateur style. It’s a little amusing to see all the media references to the 1968 riots in Chicago, reports who fail to mention the central role that agent provocateurs played in instigating violence against Chicago police, ensuring that there would be a violent police backlash that would discredit the Democratic candidate.
This is a classic kind of Nixonian dirty trick, and that’s where Karl Rove, aka “Turd Blossom” got his start. However, the result will probably just be even more enthusiastic support for Trump; on the other hand, Cruz and Rubio might try to use it as an excuse to swing the Republican convention to one of them rather than to Trump. By blaming Clinton and Sanders, however, that could be a clever political move by Trump, instead of blaming the more likely culprits, i.e. his own party’s political operatives. . . . You have to consider the possibility that Republican neocons would prefer to throw the election to Clinton rather than see Trump win.
Democrats just don’ t have that Karl Rove mentality; they are still fighting it out among themselves between Sanders and Clinton. As far as the Democratic neoliberal-corporate people, they’d far rather have Hillary Clinton face a Cruz or Rubio, who she’d probably easily defeat, than Trump. Sanders stands a better chance of defeating Trump than Clinton, that’s pretty obvious, but the neoliberals hate him (because they don’t own him body and soul).
Of course a Sanders-Trump contest would be the nightmare outcome for the neoliberal-neoconservative Washington establishment. What they want is a Clinton-Rubio matchup, (ideally they had wanted a Clinton-Bush matchup, but that effort failed hopelessly).
Personally I’ve lost all faith in the hopelessly corrupt neocon-neolib Soviet-style federal bureaucracy, but watching the neoconservative and neoliberal establishment leaders run around in a panic like chickens with their heads cut off is, at least, a source of great amusement.
And, plausibly, if the Democrats end up running Clinton vs. Trump and lose the election, perhaps that will be the final nail in the coffin of the neolib-neocon partnership. It’s been an epic disaster, foreign and domestic, for several decades now.
“progressive-leftist Big Government”
What country are you talking about? Clearly you are not referring to the United States.
In all fairness, it is protestors who are instigating the real violence at Trump rallies. They are there to disrupt and provoke, and when they get their desired response, all the blame unfairly falls on Trump and his supporters. The show in Chicago was a disgrace, and all instigated by Trump protesters. The lunatic rushing the stage today while Trump was speaking in Ohio was scary – imagine that happening to Hillary or Bernie, the shit-storm it would cause. But because it’s someone with whom many disagree, it’s seemingly okay with the left. I wonder what the response of the crowd would be if I attended a BLM rally, and started shouting epithets at those attending – would the greet me with smiles and hugs? I doubt it. And since when is it okay to the left to shut-down free speech? If you don’t like Trump, don’t listen to him or support him. I don’t agree with all he says, but he certainly has some good points to the working-class and others that no one else is addressing, and that shows in his support. The disdain for the ‘less-educated’ by the elite left is also disheartening – why is it not okay for them to have a voice too? Many of you here will not be happy until Trump is physically attacked, and that seems very likely the way things are going…
Not like they haven’t tried it before. Try and stop them and they’re reward with coverage like this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html
Excuse me, I am having a serious episode of deja-vu. Back when I was growing up in the South, all those outside agitators were coming in and stirring all sorts of trouble. Y’all know what I’m talking about: like desegregating the schools, buses, stores, restaurants; getting N-s registered to vote (of all things!) and so on, just causing trouble for everyone. It was them damn libruls, them com’nists, them pointy-head nawthern intellectuals. Yessiree, I can see the Donald fittin’ in real good with George Wallace and all those real defenders of the American way. And you standing right beside him.
Good post.Yes,I don’t agree with some things Trump says,but his words are nothing to the actions of all those in govt. now,which I totally disagree with.
Who da Nazis?Who try to limit others speech?
I nominate Mona.
Well, no. It’s true that if someone stormed at Bernie Sanders, that would be huge news. That’s because Bernie Sanders is not advocating violence, xenophobia and racism. So what would explain it? With Trump, frankly, the fact that there are protesters — typically minorities — is very much expected and unsurprising.
A Trump protest is about as surprising as a protest of the Westboro Baptist Church.
The conservative empire was willing and able to unite to “stop Obama” with never-ending theatrical displays of whatever fiction they can put together but they are completely overwhelmed by the easy target Trump? I don’t think so. They want to win and think that he can but distance themselves from Trump’s methods.
If the helpless act continues and its not just a sham for which ever candidate they are actually planning on putting out there (which is despicable enough) the Republican traitors and their media are stating in their refusal to stop Trump, that they are willing to accept and perhaps were even hoping for civil war in America as long as they can put an R on the POTUS chair, anything goes. They intend to win and want it to look as “legit” as possible.
The future of Trump vs Sanders or anyone:
“U.S. Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump on Saturday blamed supporters of Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders for protests that shut down his Chicago rally, calling the U.S. senator from Vermont “our communist friend.”
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-blames-chicago-protest-communist-sanders-436277
Gee, I wonder how that will materialize when candidates have been chosen.
If only the protesting could start happening outside the main hq of various cable news stations, but in the land of the free they probably have their own private military for such an occasion.
I’m sure our representatives in name only and their international sponsors will eventually stop hiding that they consider this country under their occupation but with an added pres Trump’s inability to cope with dissent, the future of protests will probably have drones flying overhead “targeting leaders” much sooner and with the absolute support of Americans that believe all of the disagreements of the world can be solved by shooting at them. Not to worry, they wont take responsibility for anything they are aiming at its the left’s fault! Those diversity loving, unarmed Americans with the funny clothes and hair did this to America.
The difference between Trump and other Republican candidates would be that he wouldn’t restrict himself to the little people. He’ll go after anyone and that might give some rich conservatives pause but in our beloved top secret militarized society I’m sure they aren’t too worried about it.
https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-kill-chain/
I’m guessing there wouldn’t be a chain if Trump got elected.
Sanders of course,had nothing to do with the protesters,but they did look like possible sanders supporters,But they will only hurt Sanders with the welectorate at large,unfortunately,which he recognized by his quick denunciation.
Political arson;Hey hell bitch,how many hours around the group think for that gem?Sheesh,she is the one blowing up her own campaign with her vapid daughters comments,her embrace of Yahoo,and her bubblehead demeanor.
There are solid reasons the Neocon Establishment 1% ‘ers recently met off the east coast on Sea Island for a confab with Karl Rove (“Turd Blossom”) for a “Stop Trump” meeting:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-08/gop-leaders-tech-execs-plot-against-trump-secret-neocon-island-meeting
The Neocon Establishment, if they cannot stop Trump, will undoubtedly support fellow Neocon warmonger Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Trump wants the United States to be a “neutral” negotiator in any future Israeli/Palestinian “peace” talks.
Trump wants to “get along” with Putin. He would be more interested in making long range trade deals with Russia than saber rattling against Russia that could lead to WW III. That would not be good for “business” unless you happen to head Boeing or Northrup or TRW or Dyncorp etc.
Trump wants to kill the TPP that Hillary Clinton helped write and cheer-leaded for (until she “recently” decided she was against it).
The candidate the Neocons fear will be the candidate most likely to support “world peace” in the future and no more “perpetual wars/regime changes”.
The candidate the Neocons champion will be pro-war/regime change/U.S. global military hegemony, even if it means WW III. That candidate is Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Regarding the recent protests in Chicago and elsewhere against Trump.
Moveon.org has publicly admitted they organized the protests in Chicago and that they are organizing more.
Moveon.org endorsed Sanders by a 78% margin and if he loses the nomination to Clinton they will quickly endorse the war criminal/pathological liar without blinking.
Sanders has refused to denounce Moveon.org’s moves to cause agitation and havoc at Trump rallies.
It would be acceptable if he encouraged Moveon.org (and other organizations) to protest Trump rallies away from the candidate and his supporters to avoid physical confrontations.
But Sanders is refusing to go there.
This, along with his reticence to attack Hillary Clinton on her dangerous foreign policy record (including her constant kissing of Bibi’s ring) is causing his supporters to see the writing on the wall.
Sanders supporters had better be preparing themselves for the Philadelphia coronation where he will be expected to put the crown on the war criminal’s head and smile.
MSNBC goes remote for live feed from a Trump rally, but attempts at responsive mitigation made in the control room leave our startled host Tamron Hall momentarily unsure how to respond:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LltnLzLXs7U
(And typical Socialism: Don’t like what you hear? Then, just, “…, uh, we have chosen to cut that sound from….”)
Anyone else see the bubble eyed reporter?Sheesh,real convincing.
Everyday we hear more argue how “liberalism has failed”…
Protestors should be beat up. Women should accept being less. Blacks should stop talking about their problems. Ignore the refugee crisis and hate them. Take care of yourself “first” before others (though I think people who say that are being “politically correct” and really want to say take care of ONLY yourself and who you choose). Stop saying America is not the greatest on Earth. Muslims are all bad. There’s people doing worse in the world so it’s OK to ignore domestic and international law (with that argument, America can do ANYTHING as long as North Korea and Syria have their concentration camps.)
The good old days. A place no minority or woman has a say. Just a job and role.
For those who claim this article cherry picks and doesn’t reflect WHY Trump is so popular………… You are in DENIAL!!!! I watch these rallies with my mom. She has OANN and Fox News on ALLLLLL day. I overhear him discuss economics and American jobs THEN switch to war crimes, attacking freedom of speech, degrading women, bullying all her can, attacking the idea of respect, and praising leaders that I feel make the world a MUCH more dangerous place.
Trump is the EPITOME of the liars who claim they want to “take care of themselves first and then others” but really they only care about THEMSELVES and those deemed worth their effort. And those people do NOT give a damn about law of justice. They look at people who do things the right way as schmucks and view the law as limiting.
Trump supporters claim they want to make America great again. But the truth is they hate America. They hate the respect we have cultured for others. They hate our rights (saying they make us less safe). They hate protestors. They hate respecting others and having meaningful discussion. They hate the constitution (they claim they don’t, but then argue against protesting, free speech, journalism, human rights….. so NO. They don’t like the constitution…) They hate sharing. They hate differences. They are apathetic to loss of human life. I could go on all day……
But the things that Trump is attacking are things that make me feel protected and free! To expect me to watch those safeguards be attacked and then expect to feel safe with THEM (Trump and his entity), while I watch them spit on and attack others while laughing at the idea of torturing someone without ever seeing any evidence, is the biggest JOKE I have ever seen in my short 25 years of existence.
Too much hate. And too hungry for unrestrained power.
Progressive leftism is about one thing: “Is the grass just as green with stuff on my side too? Do I have all the stuff they have? And if not, can you give it to me by making them share theirs so I can experience it too?”
Nevermind full bellies, up to date, unsynthetic clothing, roofs overhead. Obamaphones,…. The hyper-materialistic progressive left wants the trinkets the other neighbor has too, or it will squeal unrelentingly.
I’m sorry for wanting civil liberties and human rights. I’ll accept any and all torture, summary imprisonment or even execution from our gilded and almighty rulers.
Is anything else you want out of us on the Left (the real Left, not the Democratic Party “left” that still supports Obama and Hillary)? What else could you right-wing authoritarians want, what more can you take aside from life and liberty? The very fact we even existed, possibly? AND YOU HAVE THE GALL TO CLAIM WE ARE ASKING TOO MUCH WHEN WE CALL OUT TRUMP AND OTHERS LIKE HIM ON THEIR AUTHORITARIAN POLICIES!!!
Maybe you’d be more comfortable with Ted Cruz, and 12 other Republican, 2 Dem. Senators (plus one fringe, un-electable, unstable Democratic Socialist Party-dissident suspected of hooliganism) who voted against NDAA.
What’s not authoritarian about telling me I have to buy free grad school for perxons who never feel educated enough about humanist imperatives?
Do we have countries anymore Hoshua H.? Or is it one big globalist communal farm you struggle for?
Obamaphones?
It just needs, you know, more money:
http://nypost.com/2014/01/12/no-space-no-books-no-leader-no-clue-at-citys-worst-elementary/
That’s how satisfied progressive-leftist public servants solve education with not only state income taxes–but even a city income tax.
So much crazy shit out of his mouth and his supporters. One of the craziest scenes is when I see these old veterans saluting a guy who was a draft-dodging motherfucker during Vietnam. The sense of irony in that scene is unbelievable.
Anyone with a brain cell back in those days didn’t want to die in a SE Asia rice paddy for absolutely nothing,even the shrub, bent dick and darth cheney got out of it.
An oak tree got in my way.
There is a big difference between legitimate anti-war sentiment as opposed to the chickenhawks exemplified by the exact names you cited. How about a little honesty here.
@Rachael –
Amen, sister. And he still refuses to take ANY responsibility for the violence. You are so right, he ONLY cares about himself and those deemed worthy. Witness his remarks in Ohio:
“Trump continued the charged rhetoric, stating at one point that any protesters should be thrown “the hell out.” He also cited the First Amendment, stating that he and his supporters have a right to say what they want and to be heard.” Oh yes, free speech for us but not for anyone else. He also called the protesters thugs —— and what do you think someone is who calls for protesters to be beaten as Mr. Mackey has documented?
link:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/03/12/470205913/presidential-candidates-react-to-violence-at-donald-trumps-chicago-rally
Something else has occurred to me in the wake of these violent clashes. It seems that supporters of this dangerous thug are authoritarian (thanks to whoever put us onto that link about it…) These incidents seem to echo, at least to some extent, that famous Zimbardo prison experiment (anyone who isn’t familiar, I’m sure it’s in Wikipedia). Seems to be the mindset that is coming out. Now take authoritarianism, combine it with bigotry, add in no respect for civil liberties or human rights and there’s a dangerous mix for sure.
Why did you spoil your whole effort with the lie of Syrian and N Korean ccs?
Another dupe.
Trump NEEDS Hillary Clinton to be the democrat candidate.
You are exactly right.
In almost every national poll Sanders beats Trump by 6% and Clinton only by 2%.
One would think the Democrat Party would be championing the best candidate to beat the Republican in November, not a lying warmonger who is under threat of indictment (even if only by a small margin…a threat is a threat).
I am as disgusted as anyone with Mr. Trump’s cynicism, hokey appeals to the good ole days and veiled threats, as well as the completely overt ones. That said, I can’t help but notice there aren’t throngs of Trump supporters protesting at Bernie’s or Hillary’s campaign events.
By all means, if you disagree with a candidate you should make every attempt to express yourself. But purposefully disrupting the campaign speech of a candidate with whom you disagree is counterproductive.
No shit -This idiotic and unruly disruption of the ‘democratic’ process only infuriates and reinforces Trump supporters.
Hillary and Bernie are not spewing about “rapist Mexicans” “banning all Muslims” and flirting with the Klan. Hillary and Bernie do not repeatedly — or even once — RT white supremacists.
There are virtually no white supremacists at Bernie or Hillary events; by contrast, white supremacists are endorsing Trump in droves and turning up at his rallies.
If you can’t understand why blacks, Hispanics, Muslims , and their white allies, would protest the most overly racist candidate since George Wallace, well, I can’t explain it to you.
“white supremacists are endorsing Trump in droves …”
Now THAT’S funny!
Why does the spectacle amuse you?
“Flirting with the Klan”? Where? How many times do you ask a candidate to disavow?
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/703996959544250373
Prove it. Sanders’s supporters are 100% white. Look at this sea of caucasians–it’s Operation Snowflake:
https://theintercept.com/2015/12/17/wheres-bernie-media-ignores-sanders-though-hes-more-popular-than-trump/
>If you can’t understand why blacks, Hispanics, Muslims , and their white allies, would protest the most overly racist candidate since George Wallace, well, I can’t explain it to you.
I never said I don’t understand it, I said I don’t agree with it. These protesters aren’t trying to express an opinion, they are trying to prevent someone else from expressing an opinion. The answer to speech you disagree with should never be to prevent it, it should be to counter it with your own.
You’re asking progressives to expand a vocabulary beyond “spew,” “Koch bros.,” “Noam,” “racist,” “sexist,” “1%,” “capitalism.”
Mona is a hater.
You couldn’t explain 1 and 1 makes 2 to HS students.
Sanders has called for a strong border.
No protests.
Obomba is deporting illegals.
No protests.
Move on .org has been silent for a decade,through multiple depredations worldwide by our current scumbags in charge.
Not a word.
I bet its Soros,the guy who sold his fellow Jews down the river in ww2.
Simply unbelievable … How can anyone take this man serious??
Imagine so much hate spoken from one heading to be the president of USA …
Scarry
Mr. Trump is just another bum looking for handouts. A real entrepreneur wouldn’t whine about government law enforcement being too slow; he would set up his own militia to police his own rallies. They wouldn’t need to be in uniform, but it would helpful if they signaled their status in some other way – such as by wearing black shirts.
Beni: Trumpie has been slipping lately, but ya gotta give him credit for not giving up. He has brought back his original thugs er personal security guys who are quite adept at beating up those nasty protestors.
The left already has its blue shirts–invited by progressive leftist NYC to continue to randomly set up at its train turnstiles, in full uniform with white arm patch:
https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+subway+tsa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijvae7obzLAhXD7B4KHamPD1QQ_AUICCgC
Your TSA. It says Transportation, not Airport.
On the money as usual, Duce! May I suggest he call them the SA?
Chicago already has an SA leader in Ernst Rahm Emanuel …
In one of the interviews this morning, Trump referred to the 1968 Chicago police-initiated violent riot as a “rally.”
That Trump-induced anger should be directed at corporate oligarchs and Wall Street money-changers. Scapegoating of undocumented immigrants and minority fellow Americans reveals Trump’s dishonesty and contempt for his own supporters.
We must stop electing people who bend us over to be fisted by Big Business.
.
Yes, yes, and yes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nw405j2hOQ
I’m voting Trump, time for a purge.
Watch how Michael Meehan in Martha Coakley’s entourage deals with the too-curious press, after attending a ‘health’ care-related function (as coronation plans for “Ted’s Seat” steadily collapse):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siQ-8il4Q2Y
Anyone who has been following Chris Hedges work knows that Trump has arrived on schedule. Where did the Clinton’s, Obama, and the democratic and republican establishments think all of those people in fly-over country were going to go when they lost their jobs and their homes? They’re not clinging to their guns and bibles now. They’re clinging to Trump.
“They’re not clinging to their guns and bibles now. They’re clinging to Trump.’ I think they are keeping the guns and bibles while clinging to Trump.
… precisely Joy – well said.
They didn’t give a flying f*ck,and still don’t,Obomba,bent dick and the shrub.
Scum all.
“”Wolf, wolf, wolf!,” shrieked the progressive left.
How the victimized, put-upon progressive left rolls:
_”Rand Paul Supporter Stomps On MoveOn Member’s Head (VIDEO) (UPDATED)”_
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html
_”Woman Assaulted and Stomped By Rand Paul Supporters”_
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/10/25/913588/-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSxYFz4z_qg
Anybody know if the Trump campaign ever gained formal permission to use the Stones’ (Jagger/Richards) song “You Can’t Always Get What You Want (but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need)” as an anthem at all his rallies? I can well imagine the choice of song serves to flatter the vanity of [Sir] Michael Jagger. But somehow — though of course I could well be wrong — I can’t imagine Keith Richards would ever have countenanced this. Won’t The Intercept please follow up on this (by contacting music co-publisher Allen Klein’s heirs?) — Cf., btw, the current Eminem case @ New Zealand.
This is a few weeks old, but it clearly says that no permission was given. I didn’t find an update saying what the Rolling Stones are doing about it now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rolling-stones-say-trump-has-no-permission-to-use-songs-at-rallies_us_56bc987fe4b0b40245c56da5
Thanks a lot for this, Kitt. I’m curious to learn that Trump has also used the song “Brown Sugar” at one or more of his rallies. As should be obvious to all — and as I well know from having been, almost half a century back, in very close proximity to the Stones — the lyric alludes to an African American woman (as I recall, @ Atlanta, Georgia, where the song first materialized). Uncanny how Trump’s rallies are tending to become Altamont Revisited. I wonder if recent events will prompt & motivate Jagger/Richards to publicly repudiate Trump’s (ab)use of “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” (?).
While Trump isn’t blameless, bear in mind that Hillary set the example when official thugs (not attendees of the event) beat up anti-war retired intelligence spokesman Ray McGovern for turning his back to Hillary in a 2011 appearance. Meanwhile, it’s Hillary, not Trump, who bases her foreign policy on Nixon’s war criminal in chief Henry Kissinger, the bane of Allende and the instigator of the Cambodia killing fields. Meanwhile, it’s Hillary, not Trump who was the exponent of a no-fly zone in defense of el qaeda types in Syria.
Let’s go after those with real records of war crimes rather than those who, while they make some absurd and even barbaric pronouncements, actually favor a less imperialist policy.
You have no time to encourage anyone to “go after” more than one major politician at a time? You think all criticism of Trump should cease until Hillary Clinton has been “brought to heel?”
Your minor league level of ‘Centrist’ politicking should basically be an embarrassment to you in the company of those who have seen through that silliness long ago.
Centrists?Aint that what Obomba ,shrub,bent dick and the hell bitch,all murderers and criminals, are labeled?
Trump is more centrist than any of them,by far.
Unless endless war,borderless nation,no jobs,vampire healthcare,fascism on parade(actual US policy world wide) daily,propaganda daily and US politicians at the feet of foreign criminals is centrist.Unbelievable.
You’ve missed my point, partly because you actually would put the label of “centrist” on Trump, but mostly because you’re dense. My point was that this venue is not a Democrats versus Republicans venue. Meaning that many of the writers and the commenters here quite obviously consider — for example — Hillary Clinton to be just as vile and dangerous as a Donald Trump or a Henry Kissinger. So for someone to jump in saying that we the commenters and they the writers here should aim their slings and arrows at Clinton and the like rather than at Trump, reads as if the commenter either fell of the turnip truck yesterday or has never visited this website before or is a partisan cheer leader or some other off kilter sort.
If I hadn’t seen so many of your comments in the past I would be surprised that you’re not only falling for Trumps game, but also trying to sell it to others. But since I’ve seen so much of your stuff in the past that I long ago chose to virtually never bother reading you, much less replying to you, I’m not at all surprised. You fit into what I’ve seen and read from other Trump supporters; such as this guy:
“Go to fucking Auschwitz”
Not “just as vile and dangerous as Trump”.
Far MORE vile and dangerous than Trump!
According to Hillary Clinton’s current foreign policy record over the decades , she has PROVEN herself to be a war criminal and pathological liar.
Trump, as it stands now, has a clean record on those fronts (compared to Clinton).
“Vile” and “dangerous” are subjective. Trump’s actions and words lead me to conclude that he is just as vile and just as dangerous as Clinton. I consider his words of incitement to be ‘actions’. Only because he hasn’t been in the position yet to make his vileness as concrete as Clinton doesn’t prove to me that he isn’t extremely dangerous.
It seems that Noam Chomsky shares that opinion: (Six minute audio youtube)
If Trump becomes president — “Not only we, but the entire human species are in deep trouble” — Chomsky
Well done, Mr. Mackey.
Here’s a nice companion opinion piece I found at The Guardian. Well worth reading folks.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/11/donald-trump-campaign-violence-condoned-rally-incidents-reporter-assault
Actually its shite,total innuendo and assumptions totally belied by reality,but it fits your agenda.
Propaganda strikes deep.
@dahoit –
This was her real life experience. Why are you believing the spin of that egomaniac?
Do you really support the idea that press and protesters should be beaten? If you’ve read Mackey’s article hear you’ve read his own vile words.
Get real, this nutjob is dangerous.
“tricky dick nixon” was a paranoid unreprentent monster who wanted the presidency because he was a sociopath with a major power insecurity . His only interest in china was to get slave labor to enrich his pimps. He was probably also trying to find inroads for illegal drugs for his supporters.
Donald Trump? Nothing like that. I know for a fact he is not a racist.
This is meaningless. What you need to understand about Nixon is that he made his name on the House Un-American Activities Committee going after Alger Hiss. Here, read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee
HUAC is the golden thread that ties together and explains American history. The political parties switched places, the people investigated and investigating change, but the inquisitorial attitude always remains.
The message from the globalist elite to the anti-globalists is this:
“Develop New York apartment towers that Hollywood and other wealthy rent from, advertise in progressive media, fix their public ice rinks. Make contributions to all of their campaigns. Work in harmony, celebration. But reconsider before challenging the progressive, globalist political control apparatus that has been established by it, or it will be audibly and relentlessly, hopping upset.”
…..St. Louis, Chicago…..precursors to the GOP convention…
….it now seems that the Trump campaign is openly lusting for blood to be spilled since Trump knows nothing of the First Amendment rights and thrives on chaos as political succor……Trump is personally loving the attention, negative or not, while faking innocence…..
….O.K., so I state the obvious…..
@dollyme –
Oh you are on to something. I think he actually said the violent rally would be good for votes. From the NPR News article:
“Illinois holds their primary on Tuesday, and Trump said he thought the skirmishes on Friday night and the canceled rally could actually help him.
“A lot of people say this is a positive in terms of votes,” he said
How ever did things get so bad?
Sorry but I forgot the link. Here it is for anyone curious.
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/11/470154065/donald-trump-rally-in-chicago-canceled-amid-widespread-protests
By focusing on miniature, articles like this fail to accurately convey the larger sweep of history of which trump is a predictable consequence. For decades, white middle class Americans have been feeling as if they have been victimized by a political, economic, and social agenda that has attempted to vilify and marginalize long standing American institutions and beliefs. Said agenda is understood to be operating with the intention of replacing them with a set of values that places disproportionate emphasis on individual liberty at the expense of America’s traditional, majority-centrist ethos. Whether one agrees with the changes, or not, their cumulative effect on the white, middle-class American psyche predisposes them to a message that venerates a once cherished way of life that is now on the verge of extinction. Trump’s message is tailor made to tap into that long simmering dissatisfaction in a way that will predictably produce the strongest possible visceral response. Such messages are latent with the potential to induce exactly the same type of unreasoned response in those who strongly identify with their ideological antithesis. With groups like BlackLivesMatter baiting Trump’s most ardent supporters, violence is a predictable and highly exploitable outcome. The more attention and/or opposition that Trump receives from the rabid fringes of the progressive movement, the more that his message will resonate with America’s white middle-class. Trump may have started out as populist candidate, but his evolving rhetoric seems to suggest that there all ever deeper levels of discontent that have yet to be tapped. It would be deeply ironic if the actions of Trump’s ideological opposition resulted in him taking the White house with a clear mandate that closely reflects his populist rhetoric.
forgive my ignorance Karl, but hasn’t y’all white, middle-class American cherished way of life come at the expense of a future?
… surely y’all must have know that eventually this would prove to be an unsustainable social experiment (ask anyone outside of the U$A and they’ll be like … duh? … obvious !!).
… with attitudes like that of Trump supporters towards groups like BlackLivesMatter – given that the foundations of your cherished white, middle-class American way of life were fashioned by the blood and sweat of slaves who’s BlackLivesDidntSeemToMatter … and the theft of lands from NorthAmericanIndiansWhosLivesAlsoDidntSeemToMatter – it’s pretty bold of you to grieve about the decades that white middle class Americans have been feeling as if they have been victimized by a political, economic, and social agenda that has attempted to vilify and marginalize long standing American institutions and beliefs.
… that’s pretty fucking inward looking.
… and then to have the gumption to go and spread your poor white marginalised bullshit online … maybe copy and paste your post onto LiveLeak – plenty of white, middle-class American’s there who will vote for you … and Trump.
my prediction – for the little it will no doubt be worth – is that if your man Trump (or Drumph – or whatever his name is) triumphs and manages to stay alive (and the Republicans are a bigger danger to him than the Democrats – which is indeed “deeply ironic”), then y’all will go to hell in a handbasket even faster than the rest of the world currently expect you to .
… this is getting interesting … we’re on the edge of our collective seats.
have a great weekend. peace.
x
Actually, Owen… had you taken moment to pause and reflect, you would have noticed that my entire comment was written in the third person. Now, an intelligent response to my post would have been informed by many of my other recent Intercept posts that clearly take exception to Trump and his methods. But hey, let’s address the rest of your ignorant rant for humor sake.
Okay, the American Indians were victimized by the white man trope… Are you aware that roughly ninety percent of the American Indian deaths attributed to the “White Man” were simply disease related? But hey, let’s talk about the other ten per cent. Many American Indian tribes were hunter-gatherers who routinely fought and killed another over boundaries while torturing and enslaving captives. Some southwestern tribes were even known to cannibalize members of other tribes. Yes, white Europeans settlers waged war against many discrete tribes of native Americans in a manner every bit as brutal as their own. The history of the world has been largely driven by conquest. Name any continent and I will show you an unremitting pattern of conquest throughout its history. How many white middle-class Americans living today were responsible for the violence waged against native Americans in previous centuries?
Again, there isn’t a continent that you can name where slavery didn’t take place in one form or another. Africans were engaged in enslaving one another long before transatlantic slavery began. The Roman empire heavily depended on the labor of slaves from North Africa. The Muslim empire routinely enslaved their conquered enemies. But hey, let’s myopically focus on Africa-American slavery… how many white, middle-class Americans today were the owners of slaves? Now compare that number to how many white, middle-class Americans participated in the civil rights movement of the sixties. Or, if you prefer, we can focus on how many white, middle-class Americans voted for Obama.
Personally, I agree with Chomsky when he points out the fact that all wage labor – white and black – are slaves to the an economic system over which they have no real control. I know that this human-centric view does not play well with your ilk because it just feels so good to blame mankind’s universal propensity for self-predation on those whose skin color is dissimilar to our own. Now, how exactly are you any different from those you are attempting to vilify simply for the color of their skin?
awesome reply Karl (yes, sincerely) … i have a couple of points but busy in the kitchen … so will get back to you later.
and yes, i did notice the third personification … ignorantly (again), i thought you were covering yourself by assuming that position – my bad.
Wow! I didn’t expect that. You have proven to be very mature and gracious – thank you for that.
Is that you Mr. Marx?
Please, call me Karl…
ok Karl – all done in the kitchen ! – here we go.
firstly,in my “ignorant rant”, my assertion was that THE FOUNDATIONS of your One Nation Under God were built on the dispossession of the North American Indians- which you contest by saying that they had conflict before white man came (at which time there were an estimated 10 million native people >> that is a mid-range estimate). An estimated 80% to 90% of this population died after the arrival of Europeans, overwhelmingly from factors which deniers of genocide argue were beyond most human control (i’m not saying you are a genocide denialist – that’s from http://rationalwiki.org/ … if you have a preferred source, let me know and i’ll happily use it). And however you want to look at it, i’m pretty sure Chomsky would describe the dispossession of the North American Indians and both (attempted) genocide and land theft. Yes, this is the same on every continent … but i thought we were discussing the U$A and Trump – not every other continent – again, feel free to correct my “ignorant rant”.
… on slavery, same shit applies. Yes, this is the same on every continent … but i thought we were discussing the U$A and Trump – not every other continent – yet again, feel free to correct my “ignorant rant”. And once again, my assertion was that THE FOUNDATIONS of your One Nation Under God were built on the blood and sweat of slaves who’s BlackLivesDidntSeemToMatter – and yet again, i beg of you, feel free to correct my “ignorant rant”. As for the whites marching in the Civil Rights movement – i applaud them.
… i’m not sure what you hope to prove by focusing on how many white, middle-class Americans voted for Obama proves … except how gullible y’all are … and how compromised and corrupt your political system is.
… when i hear y’all say “democracy” … or refer to this and that “amendment” … or when y’all go on about the Founding Fathers (as if they would approve of the mess your system has become) … when it appears as though y’all cant see the corruption, complicity, exceptionalism, hypocrisy … i’m somewhere between hysterical laughter that y’all cant see the corruption, complicity, exceptionalism, hypocrisy … and tears of sorrow for a failed ideal (which many of us around the world admired and aspired to – until it became so obvious that the system has been hijacked and y’all are being hoodwinked) … and amazement (that y’all have been so programmed that y’all quote the 2nd Amendment as though it’s a realistic option … how likely and effective this would now be has become a world-wide joke :-) … sorry to break it to you … guess you didn’t know (why would you, the U$A M$M is hardly likely to report that!).
… and yes, Chomsky is a pretty good judge of the state of play in the U$A. i trust you are not cherry picking Chomsky analysis … the whole hog seems right on the money (and i suggest will agree more with my analysis than yours).
did you hear the closing comment he made here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVqO3r3ugVo
interview only a few weeks old … worth recounting right here as it is back on topic after we have messed about rewriting our own preferred versions of history.
having describe Trump as a “very frightening prospect” he goes on to say “if you want the truth, my own feeling is that his main competitor, Ted Cruz, is even more dangerous”.
imagine Chomsky preferring Trump to ANYONE ! … i admit, at that i am amazed.
enjoy your Saturday Karl … mine was a blast.
Hi Karl,
I appreciate your follow up, but I am taken aback at your liberal use of free style writing – I feel like I am back in the sixties listening to a mate after he has smoked a bowl of hashish at a political rally.
Yes, the subject is about the nature of those with whom trump’s message most resonates, white, middle-class America. I have largely addressed the concerns that this group of individuals share in common (See: conversation with Mona below). It was you who chose to invoke the subjects of transatlantic slavery and Indian genocide in support of your position that the “white, middle-class American way of life [was] fashioned by the blood and sweat of slaves.” And again, it was you who chose to cite the White man’s “theft of lands from North American Indians” as a justification for the “White Man’s” modern day vilification by postmodern, post gender, racist nihilists like BlackLivesMatters.
Yes, Chomsky would characterize the decimation of Native American culture as “genocide.” But Chomsky has also drawn a clear distinction between the Elite class of early Americans – that penned the constitution and declaration of independence – from those whose labor was used to advance the elites aims. In fact, Chomsky has clearly demonstrated through his writings and lectures that clear class distinctions can be drawn between the elites who first devised, and now direct, America’s political, economic, and social structures and those that have merely comprised its work force. Yes, early American white colonists were encouraged to move westward by their newly formed government, but the lands to which they moved and tamed were already largely claimed – and often surveyed – by the elites years before. For example, George Washington was tasked with surveying lands as far west as the Ohio valley on behalf of wealthy land speculators called the Ohio company; this was two decades before the second continental congress declared independence in 1776. In absence of the impediments imposed by the British crown, monied individuals such as these freely mixed politics with business. Groups of elites from discrete regions of the newly formed country competed with one another in an effort to lay claim to large swaths of lands that once belonged to the Crown. It was not a singular event for a governor of a colony to declare ownership of “all lands west” of its borders. Oftentimes, politically controlled courts from one jurisdiction would support claims to lands already owned and occupied by settlers who derived their deeds from the elites of a different jurisdiction. Collectively, these elites comprised a very small minority of the persons who populated the country at that time, yet they unilaterally shaped early America’s fate on a regional level.
The fate of working class Americans (wage laborers), has been largely dictated by the monied elites of their generation. Likewise, American worker sensibilities of consecutive generations have largely evolved regionally in keeping with the needs of the elites who provided them with employment opportunities. Thus southern (agrarian) white labor was far more likely to be open to the idea of African-American slave labor as their own economic fate depended upon the continued success of plantation owners who owned slaves – as it was their enterprise that drove much of the Southern economy. It was far easier for states with emerging industrial economies to oppose the institution of African-American slavery, yet the economic fate of the average American worker in those regions was still very much dictated by a small minority of politically connected monied interests. Even with the rise of an educated labor force – and the growth of the middle class that followed- the attitudes of American wage laborers were being deliberately molded by the elites via a coordinated set of social, political, and cultural institutions.
Now, let’s fast forward to the current day where the economic and political fate of white, middle class Americans is still being largely dictated by an elite class of wealthy individuals whose business interests now extend to the opposite end of the globe. This transnational capital class has been quietly laying the groundwork for a global economy for more than a century wherein 99% of the worlds population will be forced to compete against one another as wage laborers. Said laborers will comprise a single labor pool from which “the masters of mankind” can enjoy the fruits of their cheap labor. This trend is poised to affect the economic fate of white middle-class Americans every bit as much as their Black middle American counterparts. The elites’ trick now is to get white American wage laborers to reject their traditional, majority-centrist ethos by making them feel “white culture” itself is responsible for the plight of African- and Native-Americans. The postmodern, post gender, nihilistic ethos of groups like BlackLivesMatters do nothing more than facilitate the elites agenda of inculcating the masses with a growing sense of hopelessness and despair.
Hi Karl? LOL You’d think it was I who smoked that bowl of hash. I need some coffee desperately…
phew … maybe i could do with a bowl of your hashish too (does the USPS still deliver – internationally ?).
thx for colouring in the historical significance (no pun intended) with the Ohio Company – didnt know about that. i have read some of the British / Canadian experiment which mirrors those actions of Washington et al.
… and maybe your 60’s flashbacks are due to my naivety – being from the southern hemisphere apparently makes us 5 – 45 years behind the U$A (you wouldn’t be the first to say). i was too young in the 60 to be smoking bowls of hashish so missed that particular party.
for the sake of accuracy, my original comment was: “THE FOUNDATIONS of your cherished white, middle-class American way of life … blah … rant … blah”.
… which i still stand by.
i said that because you said this: “By focusing on miniature, articles like this fail to accurately convey the larger sweep of history of which trump is a predictable consequence. For decades, white middle class Americans have been feeling as if they have been victimized by a political, economic, and social agenda that has attempted to vilify and marginalize long standing American institutions and beliefs”
… so i thought i was being relevant. guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.
as for my motivations being involved at all … i’m looking for an argument that develops, supersedes or completely reworks my current understanding of global politics … which, for obvious reasons, starts in the U$A.
my challenging your arguments is to decide whether (for me) they need to be more closely considered … or not.
… cant see the point in just agreeing with someone (unless they say something i think is particularly succinct – in which case i’ll offer my thx for the post and move on).
i understand your point about everyone being slaves to the system – however, to overcome the system we need everybody on-board … regardless of colour, race, religion, class, social status … division is the Achilles heel of the masses … so it’s critical that there is appreciation of the foundations of the current paradigm and the price paid by particular groups along the way (hence my original statement – same thing applies globally).
have a great week.
I appreciate your challenge. I, too, learn by challenging the positions of others.
Yes, I was ever cognizant of the fact that you attempting to question the degree to which one ought to sympathize with the growing angst of historically insular, white, middle class Americans given the belief that the very foundation of their traditional way of life was largely “fashioned by the blood and sweat of slaves.” However, the issue of slavery was hotly debated between delegates of the constitutional convention in a lead up to the signing of the Constitution in 1787. Within two years, five northern states had already taken actions to outlaw slavery. By 1808, a reduction of more than 90 percent in the volume of the slave trade from Africa to the U.S. had been achieved with the emergence of new law. America’s white middle class did not even exist until the rise of industry in the 1820s and the corresponding birth of owner operated retail stores. Unlike the landed gentry who comprised America’s upper crust, these small business owners did not generally rely on slave labor. The two-class agrarian lifestyle of early America became increasingly confined to the southern states as the nation advanced toward civil war in the 1860s. Many of America’s emerging white middle class were members of faith-based institutions who participated in the abolitionist movement including Quakers, Congregationalists, Wesleyans, Reformed Presbyterians, Methodists, and American Baptists. The Second Great Awakening of the 1820s and 1830s further fueled a white, middle class abolitionist sensibility that more deeply distinguished it from that of America’s southern, landed gentry.
Although this is a very cursory defense of America’s ever-evolving white, middle class racial sensibilities, I believe that your argument concerning the innately racist foundation of America’s middle class is fundamentally flawed. Postmodern, post-gender, racist nihilists like BlackLivesMatter are equally flawed and misdirected in their assessment of America’s white middle class as they choose to ignore the fact that it has traditionally opposed racial discrimination since its very inception.
hmmmm … not sure about your stats.
eg: “By 1808, a reduction of more than 90 percent in the volume of the slave trade from Africa to the U.S.”
… that is what we call “weasel-words” (not sure what the term is in the U$A – like when politicians hide the truth behind legally correct but misleading concoctions) … the history books say that the importation was no longer necessary because … “More than one million slaves were sold from the Upper South, which had a surplus of labour, and taken to the Deep South in a forced migration … the total slave population in the South eventually reached 4 million before liberation.”
… so a 90% reduction in importation doesn’t mean you no longer use the resource (for example : the U$A oil imports Vs home grown … just b/c you have decided to poison your farmland and fresh water instead of importing, doesn’t mean you dont use the same volume of – or more – oil).
the history books – at least those outside of the U$A – say that when Lincoln won the 1860 election on a platform of no new slave states, it was more about the North getting control of the South in a wealth and land grab … and that the slavery issue was a trigger (a major one of several) that was used to draw the South into war (which the Northern administrators wanted / needed). … that was well into the 1800’s an the middle class was pretty well established.
… i therefore contend that this does account for a significant sector of the foundations of the wealth of the U$A having been established from slave labour (and am yet to be convinced otherwise – whilst appreciating the wish for contrary commentary).
i’m not saying there is an ” innately racist foundation of America’s middle class” … that’s your (completely understandable yet inaccurate) reaction to my comments pertaining to an appreciation of the foundations of the U$A’s economic model of success … no judgements were made other than here are the facts … not you are a bunch of racists. you rightly replied (to which i agreed) that this is a global norm – i’m not throwing stones … i live in a glass house too Karl … where there is no shortage of racism … which doesnt change the facts (for either of us).
as for “racist nihilists” … can you pls define that for me … i would rather you define what you mean than me guess wrongly.
again, from outside the U$A, it looks as though there is entrenched racism in the middle class (police shootings … am i right that most cops are middle class?) and Trump supporters (am i right that they are predominantly middle class?) would be the examples i would raise.
… i had the honour and privilege of one year of school in the U$A, and was shocked at what i thought was way more accepted and more severe racism than anything i had previously imagined was possible (i was however in Texas – which may account for part of that perception).
Yes, slaves were moved around at the whim of their masters. However, the “Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves” of 1807 was a federal law that completely prohibited the importation of slaves into the United States. Logic alone suggests that slavery could only have lasted a single generation from that point forward.
The original question that you posed was, “Hasn’t y’all white, middle-class American cherished way of life come at the expense of a future?” Thus it was reasonable for me to conclude that the focus of the discussion between us would focus on America’s white, middle class. In speaking more generally about the “foundations of the U$A’s economic model of success,” the question of how much the Federal government benefited from the institution of slavery is far more nuanced than a casual glance would suggest. Slavery accounted for a significant degree of wealth for a certain sector of United States society, Southern land owners. However, there were very contentious debates between northern States and those that allowed slavery from the constitutional convention forward concerning the issue of taxes and how slaves would be accounted for in determining the number of southern congressional representatives. here is a decent website that presents a fairly concise picture of the way in which slavery played a part in the development of tax law in early America:
http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/Web/THM1777?OpenDocument
As you can see, there was no direct tax on slavery. Rather tariffs were the principle mean through which the burgeoning federal government first raised revenues. Secondly, the idea of a debt based economy was adopted wherein private investors assumed the role as public creditors. Land, excise, and carriage taxes were all deemed necessary by the turn of the century. If you are with me thus far, then you can probably see that the perception that the “foundations of the wealth of the U$A itself was not directly or primarily established from slave labor.
In regard to philosophical leanings of groups like BlackLivesMatters, simply research that which there founders believe and that which they actually strive for. It might help if you have a cursory understanding of post-modern and post-gender philosophy and how it translates into political action. Nihilism is more of a vacuous effect that results from rapid disillusionment.
Yes, cops earn enough to be considered middle class if one uses an income model to determine class. Police officers are traditionally conservative and authoritarian by nature. In the past couple of decades, police forces have been incentivized by the federal government to hire returning vets as police officers. Thus there has been a significant shift toward the militarization of civilian law enforcement. Trump has attracted the endorsement of several police unions because of his own authoritarian posture and rhetoric. I do not know this for a fact, but I suspect that racism among civilian law enforcement officers runs disproportionately high; anecdotal evidence seems to bare this out in every state. I have not spent much time in Texas, but it is generally true that racist attitudes vary regionally in America… Personally, I have lived in extremely racist black neighborhoods in the northeast that would match anything that I have experienced in the Southwest. The United States is huge and you find good and bad people everywhere you turn regardless of race.
hi Karl.
have read the taxation link – thanks for the reference – very interesting and enlightening.
i’m not sure the item “Taxation and Slavery” agrees with the assessment you have made. And there seems to be a whole lot more at play than simply the taxation debate in that item … the recognition of whole person rights and citizenship … the balance between voting power of North and South (and the accounting for the slaves – whether to and what proportion of a white man they represent … etc …) … all of which indicate the importance of the slave population, and arguably – to a considerable extent (admittedly not all / only) , supporting my foundations argument. After all, the (almost free) labour of the slaves provided many the goods and services that were taxed – which is a pretty strong argument for slavery foundations.
as for the post-modernism component of your reply – i’m not sure why this is relevant in defining “racist nihilists” … maybe post-gender (without the racist component) is a little closer. i see the terms *racist* and *nihilist* as incompatible – “racists” clearly believe in something – so i dont see how “nihilists” can be annealed into anything else (except perhaps “abstract expressionists” – which is arguably kind of an artistic nihilist equivalent).
… which is why i asked for your definition of “racist nihilists” (which you didnt provide by the way).
from what i have seen, BlackLivesMatter believe in plenty of things. and just like the early feminist movement, thy have unfortunately been cornered into a paradigm where they are focusing on black lives – eventually, it will become AllLivesMatter and the agenda will be (as one of my favourite men without a country would – Kurt Vonnegut Jr – would put it) “Humanist”.
that is a function of the birth of a movement … as it develops and matures, there will be the necessity to accommodate a whole bunch of additional narratives and agendas which will bring about a much more complex and all-encompassing view. the direction the U$A is headed (or so it appears from the outside), y’all had better buckle up for a bumpy ride as your society looks as though it’s getting ready for a reboot.
i know plenty of black racists. my kids are sometimes called “white cunts” on the school bus by some of the more marginalised / abused black kids – other black kids from the same communities are their friends … so it’s a human problem and only a pigmentation issue if you choose it to be. poverty and inequality are entrenched in our racist systems, however, every individual still gets to choose their own attitude to racism … i tell my kids that they represent themselves with their words and actions – dont let others hijack your attitude with their shit.
cheers.
Yes, of course there is “a whole lot more at play than simply the taxation debate.” However, the topic of this discussion is the claim that slavery significantly contributed to the “foundations of the U$A’s economic model of success.” To this I have clearly provided evidence that the USA’s economic model of success largely evolved on the run. Slavery was a legacy institution of the British crown when the the United States became a sovereign nation. America’s founding fathers were deeply divided on the institution of slavery and it was the topic of heated debate as the constitution was being framed. Although the institution of slavery was not immediately outlawed for practical reasons, legal groundwork was laid that would make its continued existence impossible in time. Yes, there were some tax benefits derived from the cotton, tobacco, and sugar that was cultivated and harvested with slave labor. But those taxes did not significantly contribute to the overall economic well-being of Early America or the foundations of the U$A’s economic model of success. The the proof of this claim is laid bare by the fact that the institution of slavery was incrementally phased out as intended by the founders and replaced with one that primarily relied on wage labor. Likewise, the American Constitution was intentionally constructed in a way that has allowed for a series of amendments that further advanced the egalitarian notion of social justice (e.g. Women and blacks eventually won the right to vote) envisioned by the founders.
Now, if you want to argue that wage labor is “slavery 2.0″ than I might agree with you as wage laborers currently have little control over the political conditions that determine their collective economic fate – whether they are black or white. Yes, there were discernible differences in the way that, and the degree to which, whites and blacks were wed to the America’s economic system in time. Today, the majority of those who identify as “white, middle class” have become keenly aware of the fact that all wage laborers, white and black, are subject to the same set of political conditions that have been shrewdly devised to intentionally undermine their democratic aspirations.
It has now become common practice for historians to deconstruct traditional interpretations of history in a way that allows them reconstruct it in a way that reflects postmodern, post gender sensibilities. To this end, traditional structures of power are intentionally de-empathized, or outright vilified, for the purpose of disinvesting the current generation from their allegedly intrinsic destructive potential. To this end, traditional attitudes toward gender, race, and religion have been identified as essential targets of deconstruction especially by radical postmodern historians who subscribe to post-structuralism. In reading the views and aims espoused by BlackLifesMatters, it is clear that its founders are well versed in the deconstruction of western binaries and believe that the “perceived binary dichotomy between man/woman, civilized/uncivilised, reason/unreason, and white/black have perpetuated and legitimized Western power structures favoring ‘civilized white men.'” It is only with this understanding that on can fully realize the meme driven mindset of those African Americans who have uncritically embraced BlackLivesMatters and the belief that America’s institutions are intrinsically uncivilized, unreasonable, racist, and misogynist. the historians who are committed to interpreting history in this fashion argue that there is no way of deciding whether one representation of the past is trueand another, contradictory one, untrue. Such arguments are themselves contradictory as they lay no claim to the truth themselves. Rather they are made to advance the view that all interpretations of history exclusively rely on their own purposes and their own point of view. Such arguments are essential to interpreting history in a way that best facilitate the self-serving intentions of some who – like the founders of BLM – feel that a traditional read of history perpetuates the status quo in a way that permanently places them on the very fringes of society.
thanks Karl – excellent discussion.
i appreciate your contribution.
agree with “slavery V2″
… as for “slavery V1″ i’m still not 100% on board – but that’s OK.
be well, and thank you for your patience and sharing.
owen
Thank you Karl. It is always nice to be challenged from someone so thouhtful…
Karl once again? LOL
This is your mind on drugs… Please, just say NO! (actually it is a profound lack of caffeine)
Sorry Owen
co-incidentally, coffee is my drug of choice too.
… not interested in any others.
Karl, the enormous problem with your analysis is that race/racism, completely outside of factors of class, is a free-standing issue. Class interests are important, and do encompass a large universe of what ails the United States across all races and ethnicities. Nevertheless, within that universe, racism exists separately; it would continue even if wealth inequality was radically ameliorated tomorrow.
The Civil War and the three amendments to the Constitution that followed immediately in its wake, did not remotely address the racism issue; abolishing slavery in some ways exacerbated racism. Sharecropping peonage, Jim Crow, segregation, the KKK, lynching — this all happened well into the 1950s.
Racism also did not end with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Being black in the U.S. continues to mean dealing with white supremacist beliefs and attitudes, even when not explicitly stated, or even necessarily understood as such by those holding such attitudes.
The whites supporting Trump are either racists, or angry that blacks (and Hispanics) wont’ just “shut the fuck up already.” These white don’t want to hear about it any more — and that’s THEIR PROBLEM.
These whites ARE the problem.
Ordinarily, I would not respond to anything written by you as you have demonstrated a chronic disregard for the truth when arguing with others. Like RRHeard, you are all about winning even at the expense of your own dignity. Thus, what is the point? This having been said, I believe that you may have raised some valid points that deserved at least a cursory response had it not been for this alleged fact:
“African American history . . . is being consciously contrived to facilitate the elite’s plan to eliminate middle-class culture altogether.” What? That’s quite a theory you’ve got there. Your argument sounds kind of intellectual, but it’s a fraud. Try breaking the rant up a bit, too: twenty-five lines of blather is a tough slog.
Tim, are you always this stupid or are you intentionally misinterpreting that which Karl was attempting to convey? Are you not aware that Americans are being played off against themselves while the elites attempt to inculcate them with a rarefied view of history that invariably undermines faith in traditional institutions? Are you not curious as to why the extreme left is advancing a narrative of post modern nihilism in stark opposition to the traditional, faith-based sensibilities of America’s white, Middle class? Karl is right when he says that a “RAREFIED interpretation of African American history… “is being consciously contrived to facilitate the elite’s plan to eliminate middle-class culture.” Chomsky himself has repeatedly acknowledged that there is a class war being waged against the American working class:
– Chomsky
And in the book “Race Matters,” author Cornell West very adroitly identified nihilism as the greatest threat facing black America while criticizing “conservatives and liberals” for engaging in a faux debate about race that utterly failed to confront its debilitating effects. Again, in reflecting on the nihilistic threat posed by the elites globalization of capital, West laments over the “uprooting of communal structures, community-based structures of meaning, and the deracination and rootlessness of individuals.”
Errr… thanks (I think). I am not a big fan or Cornell West, but it appears that we agree on the profound sense of meaningless and despair that can predictably emerge when an individual’s deep seated beliefs are either irreparably corrupted or violently uprooted (as is the case with the elites strategy of regime change and pacification). In regard to a “rarefied version of history,” I was referring to the sustained focus on a select set of cherry-picked facts that may each be true and yet convey a skewed view of history when uniquely combined and presented collectively. In an age where twitter and texting has become the primary mean of communicating, memes take on a disproportionate level of significance. The elites are very adept at using social media to propagate various sets of memes along racial, class, and cultural lines with the specific intention of altering human behavior through their ingestion and repeated replication.
Nice try Doug. Using Argon to bring up “rarefied interpretations” by Karl …
Regardless of the number of servers employed, your word salad comes through every time.
Thx for the feedback nuf said/MONA.
sounds kind of intellectual
funny
Ok Karl. You are simply operating in some alternative reality.
I’m a daughter of the Midwest, raised in a middle class home. My father was a professor, but his best friend — and my uncle — was a cop in Milwaukee. Both men were racist as all fuck. The one alive still is. So are all of his kids, my cousins.
I know the white working class, Karl. I’m from it. To the extent they are not themselves racist, they are very impatient and uncomfortable with black grievances.
Your dense (in both ways) blocks of text and farrago of pseudo-sociological bilge reduces to bullshit.
Is this statement true or not? If you claim that it is true, then logic demands we all conclude that you know every single White supporter of Donald Trump. If you admit that it is not, then you are once again demonstrating your chronic disregard for the truth. The very fact that you have now failed to acknowledge that this statement was pure hyperbole when challenged proves that you are only concerned with winning even if it is at the expense of your own dignity. Absent dignity and credibility, why should I give a fuck what you think? Now, feel free to have the last word as I am quite sure that another one of your alts is waiting with bated breath to magically appear and herald your courageous victory over truth and reason…
Karl, that you want to play talmudic parsing and insist on utter literalism when a fascist candidate is inciting hatred and could be the next president of the United States, well, Karl, you have no concept of what is happening. Or if you do, you welcome it.
Decent people are frightened, Karl, at how our country is unraveling and descending into polarized chaos. There is going to be bloodshed, almost certainly deaths.
What is the matter with you?
– Mona
Is this statement true or not?
Sorry to let your ‘all knowing’ assumptions down…but I do know of many American blacks who are voting for Trump. (My own thoughts don’t apply because I don’t vote.)
But I guess they are people too…with their own will, and their own decisions that they are free to make…so who cares? And I would suppose that they don’t even know you.
@ Mona
You harp on and on to keep that slave train movin’ with your rheotoric of “Jim Crow, KKK, Slavery, Racist, Antisemitism…” and what ever manipulation that can sway to your BS (Bernie Sanders, who hasn’t proved to be anything but a secretive, deceptive liar). All of this manipulation is an attempt to shut down the freedom of choice. FYI…there are many Americans who happen to be black that want so desperately to MOVE ON and get off the slave train. There are many Americans who happen to be white that have never embraced the KKK or have never been descendants of a few slave owners and who too want to MOVE ON and get off the divisive train…that have worked side by side employed at the same places that black and hispanics have also been employed. How is invoking these horrible terms causing freedom or emancipation? Usually they keep us all from it. They are a tool to keep the division and separation, just as BLM is being used for. Say them enough and they become you. Enough already. Freedom of Choice.
An admirable attempt to establish false equivalence.
Thanks Mr. Mackey, absolutely fascinating!
Gee, talk about timing:
Rachel Maddow’s coverage of the above.
I really am not surprised….
In GOP discourse, “politically correct” has effectively come to mean “not a psychopath.”
Right? I genuinely do not understand what they keep saying with the politically correct rant. Too much civility nowadays? Too much respect? Too much human decency? Sanity? What???
I think we have a lot of egregious examples recently. I mean, you have 45,000 people petitioning to expel six girls because somebody snapped a picture of them wearing T-shirts to spell out “NI**ER” (asterisks in original). I mean, the students got issued a bunch of shirts to read “BEST*YOU’VE*EVER*BEEN*CLASS*OF*2015″ – there’s nothing special about the six girls except that they happened to be wearing the right letters to spell out the wrong word during some impromptu game of human Scrabble.
It’s one thing to condemn racism – something else again to try to ruin students’ lives because they spelled a word.
^^^ did anybody else notice that in this pitiful explanation the letter ‘g’ (which I believe is required to complete the offending word) is not included in the alleged story excusing (in some small part?) the offense? ^^^
Thank you Wnt for illustrating the egregious nature of folks who whine about ‘political correctness’. In passing may I observe that the vast majority of assholes who make the PC complaint insist we all use precise language when describing the shit-babies of their minds (Islamo-fascism, religious liberty, economic freedom).
I was referring, of course, to statements to the effect that not torturing is PC, or not killing civilians is PC. In effect, not being a psychopath is too PC.