Anyone who purports to believe in free speech rights should be appalled by Israeli behavior.
Despite having lived in Israel for 22 years with no criminal record of any kind, Omar Barghouti (above) was this week denied the right to travel outside the country. As one of the pioneers of the increasingly powerful movement to impose boycotts, sanctions, and divestment measures (BDS) on Israel, Barghouti, an articulate, English-speaking activist, has frequently traveled around the world advocating his position. The Israeli government’s refusal to allow him to travel is obviously intended to suppress his speech and activism. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was one of the world leaders who traveled last year to Paris to participate in that city’s “free speech rally.”
As the husband of a Palestinian citizen of Israel, Barghouti holds a visa of permanent residency in the country, but nonetheless needs official permission to travel outside of Israel, a travel document that — until last week — had been renewed every two years. Haaretz this week reported that beyond the travel ban, Barghouti’s “residency rights in Israel are currently being reconsidered.”
The travel denial came after months of disturbing public threats directed at him by an Israeli government that has grown both more extreme and more fearful of BDS’s growing international popularity. In March, Israel’s interior minister, Aryeh Deri, threatened to revoke Barghouti’s residency rights, explicitly admitting that this was in retaliation for his speech and advocacy: “He is using his resident status to travel all over the world in order to operate against Israel in the most serious manner. … He took advantage of our enlightened state to portray us as the most horrible state in the world.”
Sarah Leah Whitson of Human Rights Watch told the Electronic Intifada that “Israel’s refusal to renew Barghouti’s travel document appears to be an effort to punish him for exercising his right to engage in peaceful, political activism, using its arsenal of bureaucratic control over Palestinian lives.” She added: “Israel has used this sort of control to arbitrarily ban many Palestinians from traveling, as well as to ban international human rights monitors, journalists, and activists from entering Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories.”
But the threats to Barghouti from the Israeli government extend far beyond his right to travel. Last month, Amnesty International issued an extraordinary warning that the group “is concerned for the safety and liberty” of Barghouti, citing threats from Israel’s minister of transport, intelligence, and atomic energy, Yisrael Katz, who called on Israel to engage in “targeted civil eliminations” of BDS leaders with the help of Israeli intelligence. As Amnesty noted, “The term alludes to ‘targeted assassinations’ which is used to describe Israel’s policy of targeting members of Palestinian armed groups.”
As The Intercept has regularly reported over the last year, the attempts to criminalize BDS activism — not only in Israel but internationally — are one of the greatest threats to free speech and assembly rights in the West. The threat has become particularly acute on U.S. college campuses, where official punishments for pro-Palestinian students are now routine. But obviously, the threats faced by Barghouti inside Israel are far more severe.
Regardless of one’s views on BDS and the Israeli occupation, anyone who purports to believe in basic conceptions of free speech rights should be appalled by Israeli behavior. I spoke with Barghouti yesterday about this latest Israeli attack on his core civil liberties, the growing extremism in Israel, and broader trends with free speech and BDS activism. “I am unnerved,” he told me, “but I’m certainly undeterred.” You can listen to the 25-minute discussion on the player below; a full transcript appears below that.
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This transcript has been edited for clarity.
GLENN GREENWALD: This is Glenn Greenwald with The Intercept. And my guest today is Omar Barghouti, who is a Palestinian human rights activist and one of the co-founders of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement, better known as BDS, which is designed to put non-violent international pressure on Israel to end the occupation of Palestinian territories, establish equal rights for Palestinians, and accept the right to return of Palestinian refugees who fled during and after the establishment of Israel.
BDS has gained considerable international support over the last few years as the West has watched Israel expand its occupation of the West Bank, while its army kills thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza. And as a result of that success, BDS has come under a multi-pronged attack from Israel and its supporters around the world.
As part of that attack, this week news broke that Israel denied Barghouti an international travel permit. As a resident of Israel he is required to apply for this permit every two years to travel internationally. Human Rights Watch condemned the act “as something that appears to be an effort to punish him for exercising his right to engage in peaceful political activism.”
Before welcoming you I just want to say that I’ve spoken to a lot of people over the last several years who are probably subject to electronic surveillance on their telephones, but I’m not sure I’ve ever spoken to someone who’s subject to as much surveillance as you are.
So with that, thanks very much for taking the time to talk with me, I really appreciate it.
Before I ask you to just talk a little bit about what happened with this travel restriction, I just want to give a little bit context and background for listeners. This didn’t really come out of nowhere; in late March, Israel’s interior minister was quoted as telling a conference that he was considering revoking your residency.
He said: “I was given information that his life is in Ramallah and he is using his resident status to travel all over the world in order to operate against Israel in the most serious manner.” He continued: “He was given rights similar to those of a citizen and he took advantage of our enlightened state to portray us as the most horrible state in the world.”
Amnesty has said that they’re actually “concerned for your safety and liberty” and they cited a quote from the Israeli minister of transport and intelligence and atomic energy, Yisrael Katz, who called on Israel to engage in “targeted civil eliminations” of BDS leaders with the help of Israeli intelligence.
So, with that context in mind, obviously the Israeli government has become obsessed with restricting and punishing BDS leaders. Tell us about this new travel restriction that Israel has imposed on you. How did you learn about it? What is it?
OMAR BARGHOUTI: Every couple of years I have to renew my Israeli travel document and without that I cannot leave or re-enter the country. Because I’m a permanent resident in Israel, I cannot leave on any other passport except the Israeli travel document.
GREENWALD: Do you have another passport?
BARGHOUTI: Yes, I have Jordanian citizenship.
GREENWALD: But in order to leave Israel, you need their permission every two years.
BARGHOUTI: Yes. On April 19 the Ministry of Interior in Acre where I live officially informed us that they will not renew my travel document, therefore effectively banning me from travel. This comes as you rightly noted in the context of very heightened repression against the BDS movement, which seeks freedom, justice, and equality for Palestinian citizens. So it seeks Palestinian rights under international law. But because it has become so effective of late, because support has been rising tremendously in the last couple of years, we are in a way paying the price for the success of the movement.
Many people are realizing that Israel is a regime of occupation, settler colonialism, and apartheid and are therefore taking action to hold it to account to international law. Israel is realizing that companies are abandoning their projects in Israel that violate international law, pension funds are doing the same, major artists are refusing to play Tel Aviv, as Sun City was boycotted during apartheid South Africa.
So they’re seeing this isolation growing, they can see the South Africa moment, if you will. And because of that, they’ve heightened their repression, including espionage on BDS human rights defenders, whether Palestinian, Israeli, or international, surveillance, of course, plus those latest threats of targeted civil elimination and banning us from travel and so on.
So we are really unnerved, I am personally quite unnerved by those threats. We take them very seriously, especially in this context. We live in a country where racism and racial incitement against indigenous Palestinians has grown tremendously into the Israeli mainstream. It has really become mainstream today to be very openly racist against Palestinians. Many settlers and hard-right-wing Israelis are taking matters into their own hands – completely supported by the state – and attacking Palestinians.
So in that context I am unnerved, but I’m certainly undeterred. I shall continue my non-violent struggle for Palestinian rights under international law and nothing they can do will stop me.
GREENWALD: About the travel restrictions themselves, how long have you been receiving this travel permission? Did they give you any reason as to why in this case it was being denied? And did you have any problems in the past – from their perspective – that would justify this denial?
BARGHOUTI: No, actually I’ve been a permanent resident of Israel since 1994, so 22 years running and without any violations of the law – not even a traffic violation. So there’s nothing on my record that they can use against me.
Calling for a boycott until now is not a crime in Israel. It’s a tort – they can punish me in various ways – but it’s not a crime that they can revoke my residency right based upon. And they know that very well – they don’t stand on very strong legal grounds. So they’re looking for ways to intimidate me, to bully me, to silence me by other ways. And that doesn’t seem to be working, so now they’re working on revoking my permanent residency.
I have not had any problems in the past having my travel document renewed, for 22 years. So it’s just when BDS started to really become a very impactful, very effective movement with impressive growth and support, including among young Jewish Americans, young Jewish Brits, and so on – and that really alarms Israel – only then that they start taking such repressive, anti-democratic, draconian measures to the extreme against the movement, which is a non-violent movement, accusing us of all sorts of things.
GREENWALD: So as far as your status in Israel is concerned, and your right to travel, if I’m not mistaken you live in Israel with your wife who is an Israeli citizen, correct?
BARGHOUTI: Yes, correct, my wife is a Palestinian citizen of Israel.
GREENWALD: So does that give you entitlement to stay or are they actually able to revoke your permanent residency status?
BARGHOUTI: When it comes to non-Jews – as we’re called in Israel – no one knows what applies and what doesn’t apply. As you know there are more than 50 laws in Israel that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of the state, let alone Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, who are non-citizens.
So, a Palestinian citizen of Israel does not get the full set of rights that a Jewish citizen gets because simply the Palestinian is not a Jewish national and only if you’re a Jewish national – whatever that means – do you get the full set of rights. This is an extra-territorial definition of nationality so Israel does not have Israeli nationality – there is no such thing.
The Supreme Court rejected that notion, the Knesset did, there is no Israeli nationality. There is Israeli citizenship but that does not entitle you to the full set of rights. So yes, my wife is an Israeli citizen and I got my permanent residency through that but what rights I’m entitled to and am not entitled to depends on the mood of the politicians and how much the courts are ready to go along with that.
GREENWALD: Let’s discuss the efforts against the BDS movement more broadly beyond Israeli borders. For a long time I think the tactic was to try and ignore BDS, to treat it as though it was so marginalized and inconsequential that it wasn’t even worth discussing or acknowledging let along taking action against. And, as you’ve suggested, as it’s become a much more widely accepted tactic, as the world watched in horror – I think one of the turning points of the last operation in Gaza that killed so many children and innocent men and women – it has become a tactic that in a lot of ways is starting to replicate, as you suggested as well, what happened in South Africa across lots of college campuses. Young American Jews who are fully now on board with BDS as a moral and necessary tactic.
And as a result you’ve starting to see more world leaders and people like Hillary Clinton denounce BDS in the most vehement terms, even equating it with anti-Semitism and I think most disturbing of all, actual laws are now being issued, not just in the United States but throughout Europe, to criminalize BDS and make it illegal to advocate it or engage in activism on its behalf.
Talk about what you’ve witnessed as someone who’s been in this movement from the beginning, about the changes that are underway in terms of how the response is developing toward this movement.
BARGHOUTI: I think after years of failure in stopping or even slowing down the growth of BDS and the growth of support for BDS around the world, especially in the West, Israel is resorting to its most powerful weapon, if you will, which is using its influence in the U.S. Congress and through that its influence in Brussels and in the E.U. and so on to criminalize BDS from above, after failing to stop it from below.
Because BDS is growing at the grassroots level – trade unions, academic unions, student groups, LGBTQ groups, women groups and so on, Israel is resorting to that attempt to delegitimize it from above.
So as you rightly said, they’re working on passing legislation across the United States and state legislatures to criminalize BDS or to “blacklist” individuals and organizations involved in BDS, reminding us of the worst days of McCarthyism. So really, Israel is fostering a new McCarthyism, and nothing less than that because it’s calling on governments that it deems friendly to punish speech, punish activism and campaigning to uphold Palestinian rights under international law.
So this is a non-violent inclusive movement that is anchored in the international declaration of human rights. It’s opposed to all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism. And we’re not shy about that. We’re very categorical about our opposition to all forms of racism. Because of that – not despite that – Israel is extremely worried. Israel’s regime of occupation and apartheid is worried when this human rights inclusive movement is reaching out and appealing to a mass public, including many young Jewish Americans.
So it’s resorting to this new McCarthyism. In France, it’s the worst, with government actually saying that calling for a boycott of Israeli products is now illegal in France. You can call for a boycott of French products in Paris and that’s okay, but not of Israeli products. Imagine the enormous hypocrisy.
GREENWALD: And people have been arrested wearing pro-BDS T-shirts in Paris.
BARGHOUTI: Exactly. The measure of repression in France is unprecedented. We have not seen anything like that. Paris has really become the capital of anti-Palestinian repression of late. Imagine – the city of freedoms, supposedly, has become the city of darkness for Palestinians.
GREENWALD: There was a huge free speech march there just over a year ago.
BARGHOUTI: We don’t see this anti-Palestinian repression as isolated. Israel is fostering this, but there is a lot of repression already in the West. There’s already an attack on unions, an attack on free speech, on social justice, racial justice movements, there’s enormous militarization and securitization of society in the West.
And Israel is benefiting from this enormous homeland security and military market – it’s great business for Israel. It’s training police forces across the United States, from Ferguson to Baltimore. London police, Paris police.
GREENWALD: One of the criticisms of BDS opponents, when they hear things like what you just said, denouncing this erosion of civil liberties throughout the West, including in Europe, is they say it’s kind of ironic, maybe even hypocritical of you, as an advocate and proponent of Palestinian rights, to be critiquing civil liberties erosions in the West when throughout the Palestinian territories there certainly are no rights for LGBTs, or very few, and that there are far fewer rights for women for civil liberties in places like Gaza and certain parts of the West Bank. How do you respond to that? Is that something you address in your activism for Palestinian rights?
BARGHOUTI: Sure. As an inclusive movement, we call for equal rights for all humans, irrespective of identity. So absolutely, we oppose every form of discrimination against anyone based on any identity attribute. Now, do we have repression in the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza? Absolutely.
Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are under Israeli military occupation so they’re suffering denial of all rights, from freedom of movement to the right of free speech, to all kinds of rights, to the right to life in some cases, as we’ve seen in Gaza. But yes, on top of that, there is social repression, of course.
GREENWALD: Imposed by Palestinians on other Palestinians.
BARGHOUTI: Imposed by the Palestinian authority, by the authorities in Gaza and that’s yes, Palestinian repression on Palestinians. But the authority in Ramallah is buttressed, is supported entirely by Western governments, by the United States, by European governments and to a large extent, by Israel.
So it’s not like the European and American funders are pushing for more democratization and free speech and civil liberties. They’re accepting the growing repression of the Palestinian authorities so long as it does the job, carrying some of the burdens of the occupation while Israel continues to colonize and ethnically cleanse and commit war crimes.
GREENWALD: You talked a little earlier about what you say now is this open racism and even supporters of Israel, people who openly self-identify as Zionist, have sounded these alarm bells about the deterioration of civic discourse on Israel, about how things that were once unthinkable or relegated to a fringe have now become mainstream.
You’re somebody who has lived in Israel since 1994, so 22 years now – how do you describe the changes in terms of what has taken place in Israel domestically? Is it something you regard as a radical departure from what has taken place or is it a natural evolution of something that was a little bit more hidden, that people were maybe a bit more polite about 20 years ago, but is now just made a bit more explicit?
BARGHOUTI: I think racism is inherent in any colonial society and Israel is no exception. As a regime of settler colonialism, occupation, and apartheid, racism is not coincidental. It’s a pillar of the system. Look at how Israel treats BDS. BDS calls for boycott, divestment, and sanctions to achieve Palestinian freedom, justice, and equality and they see that as a major threat. But freedom, justice, and equality only threaten lack of freedom, injustice, and inequality. It doesn’t threaten anyone else who isn’t premised on the existence of racism.
Certainly, as you rightly said, Israel has dropped the mask. With the last elections in 2015, Israel elected its most racist government ever and we have the most racist parliament ever. The most racist Knesset ever, as Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper, calls it. To the extent that a couple of days ago, the deputy chief of staff of the Israeli army said that racism is growing to an extent that reminds people of 1930s Germany. This is the deputy chief of staff in Israel – this is not some nobody on the streets of London or Paris. This is an extremely important statement by one of the top generals in Israel. He is very alarmed that those symptoms of extreme racism are appearing everywhere and are becoming prevalent in Israeli society. And that is really, really scary.
On the other hand, by dropping the mask, Israel’s regime has in a way accelerated the growth of movements like ours. Boycott has grown tremendously – I’ve said this before and I’ll repeat it – we can attribute part of the success, part of the credit, for the growth and impact of BDS to the Israeli government’s far-right policies and their dropping the mask of enlightenment democracy and so on. They’re doing away with that, with the Ministry of Education instilling extreme racist notions in textbooks, with the Minister of Culture requiring Loyalty Oaths by artists who want to perform in Tel Aviv.
It’s really reaching an unprecedented level of bare racism. Racism was always there but it was always very couched, very hidden by a supposedly liberal Zionist façade that projects to the world Israeli scientific miracles and cultural miracles and whitewashing very well Israel’s deeply rooted racist colonial society.
GREENWALD: My final question is about a couple of reservations or criticisms or objections toward the BDS platform that come not from the obvious opponents of BDS but from people who are generally very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause who even are very harsh critics of Israel. A lot of the time people in that camp will say the following: “Why is it that Israel specifically should be boycotted for its human rights violations when so many other countries in the world including the United States are guilty of at least equal if not greater human rights violations and yet there’s no boycott movement for them?”
And then the other related criticism is that the platform of BDS itself — by including a right of return to Palestinians, which would, if accepted, essentially result in the end of Israel as a Jewish state and is something that Israel will never ever accept — makes the BDS movement something designed to achieve a goal that can never actually be achieved and therefore, less effective.
How do you respond to those two concerns or criticisms?
BARGHOUTI: It’s funny when people on the fringe talk about effectiveness, when Israel is fighting BDS with such immense resources around the world, inducing governments to pass laws to fight it, using its intelligence sources to spy on citizens around the world – human rights activists involved in BDS. It’s very strange to hear anything about the effectiveness of the movement. I think that’s settled by now. Companies are abandoning Israeli projects, pension funds are abandoning Israeli projects, major churches, major academic associations across the world, especially in the U.S., are taking action.
GREENWALD: But when they do that, they’re doing that – at least in terms of what they’re expressing – in opposition to the occupation.
BARGHOUTI: Not just that. When you look at academic associations and trade unions, Glenn, they’ve gone way beyond that. Churches, yes, they’ve stuck to the occupation only, but when you look at academic associations – the American Studies Association, the Anthropological Association, Women’s Studies and so on, they’ve gone for a full academic boycott of Israel, which targets all Israeli academic institutions because of their complicity in planning, implementing, and whitewashing Israel’s regime of oppression.
GREENWALD: What I meant was not that their boycott is directed only at Israelis in the occupied territories but rather that their objective in supporting the boycott is not to secure right of return for the Palestinians, as they describe it, but instead is to end the occupation. Would you agree with that?
BARGHOUTI: In fact, most partners and supporters of BDS completely support the three planks in our BDS call of 2005, which is ending the occupation, ending the racial discrimination in Israel and the system of apartheid and right of return. So we’re not aware of partners who do not support the right of return as a basic U.N. stipulated right.
All refugees, be they Jewish refugees from World War II to refugees from Kosovo, have that right. This is in international law and Palestinians should not be excluded. It’s quite racist to say that the return of Palestinian refugees would end Israeli apartheid and that’s bad because? What is so wrong about refugees having the right to return home? If that disturbs an apartheid system that’s premised on being exclusionary and racist and that does not want to see people gain their rights, what’s the argument there?
GREENWALD: Just to be clear, the argument that I’m describing here — and by the way, this isn’t my argument, I’m not advocating it, I’m simply articulating it — it’s the objection that comes not from right-wing critics of BDS but from a lot of allies and a lot of people who are long-time supporters of Palestinian rights, such as Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky.
The argument is not that the right of return is not justifiable, morally or ethically, in fact I think both of them — and pretty much everyone would agree with them — would say that in an ideal world Palestinians would have the right to return. Their argument is a tactical or pragmatic one: that if you allow Palestinians the right of return it would essentially mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state, which in turn means that Israel will never ever agree to it. And so you’ve essentially created an unattainable goal, one that can never happen and isn’t realistic and is therefore designed not to help Palestinians, but to be this objective that is inevitably destined to fail.
BARGHOUTI: Well actually that’s a very dogmatic objection. Saying that it will never happen ignores history, ignores that major empires have collapsed in our lifetime that were thought to be invincible just years before collapsing. Who would have thought a country as powerful as the Soviet Union would collapse? Who would have thought in the 1980s that apartheid in South Africa would collapse? Who would have thought that East Timor would have autonomy when 20 years before, no one knew where East Timor was?
So it’s really quite dogmatic for people to say only when it comes to protecting Israeli apartheid you cannot question it – if you dare, Israel will bring down the house on everyone.
Israel depends tremendously on public support from the outside, from complicity from Western governments. As that erodes, as BDS grows and public support for BDS grows, and Israel gets isolated in the academic, economic, cultural, and military sphere, eventually, it will have to abide by international law, and we will see dissent growing in Israel like any other colonial state.
We will not see dissent as long as the price is not high enough. When it becomes high enough we will see growing dissent and more Jewish Israelis joining the ranks of BDS so that we can both ethically shape a future together based on justice, freedom, and equality.
Going back to the first point, which was why target Israel and not the United States. Archbishop Desmond Tutu had a very similar argument with this issue when it was brought up about South Africa. He said certainly apartheid Africa was not by far the most evil system of oppression around, but you could not ask South Africans – the black majority – why are you fighting apartheid? If you’re sick with the flu you don’t fight another illness, you fight the sickness that you are suffering from.
The Palestinians are under an Israeli regime of oppression so naturally we have to fight this immediate oppressor. Now the fact that Israel is completely supported by the United States — sponsored, bank-rolled, protected — that doesn’t mean that we should not fight our immediate oppressor. That’s how you effectively make a change and achieve your rights.
This is not an intellectual exercise. Yes, one can call for a boycott of all governments that support Israel’s oppression – the United States and so on – but that’s intellectualism that leads to no action. If we follow Paulo Freire’s reflection and action model, that you have to reflect and then act, you’re not acting by calling for a boycott of the United States because it’s the only surviving empire. It’s invincible at this point in time, in 2016. It would be completely ridiculous to call for a boycott of the United States.
As Naomi Klein said, it would never work. Boycotts are not just intellectual exercises, they have to work. We’re not in it for fun, we’re not in it to make a point. We‘re in it to gain our freedom and rights under international law and for that we have to be very strategic.
GREENWALD: I said that would be my last question, but I actually have one more – a very narrow, specific question about the news of the denial of your travel permit. Are there appeals available to you? Do you have legal recourse that you can seek in order to get the decision reversed and do you intend to do that?
BARGHOUTI: I cannot speak a lot about our legal strategy, but certainly we’re exposing this around the world. We rely on action by citizens of the world, not on the governments because governments are very complicit in Israel’s regime of oppression, but Jewish Voice for Peace, U.S. Campaign to End Israeli Occupation, and other groups have started campaigning in the U.S. against this travel ban against me. And many, many groups are working for the right to BDS. Even if you disagree with some of the tactics of BDS, on purely free speech grounds you’ve got to support our right to call for BDS.
In the United States in particular, it’s protected by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution so even the New York Times at one point defended our right to advocate for BDS while being completely against BDS.
I think Israel will face a problem that it is alienating the liberal mainstream and that will be really the final stroke in its wall-to-wall support in the United States.
GREENWALD: Well, there are loads of people who love to wrap themselves in the flag of free speech rights, including supporters of Israel, and hopefully those people will have the courage of their convictions that even if they don’t agree with your positions on BDS and Israel generally in the occupation, that they would nonetheless see it as highly objectionable that you should be denied the most basic right of international travel simply because the Israeli government wants to punish you for your political views or constrain you from engaging in activism internationally. And hopefully this interview will help to bring some attention to what has been done to you.
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me.
BARGHOUTI: Thank you so much, Glenn.
Bassem Eid has a message for the bigots, anti-Semites and the BDS movement
“Bassem Eid, director of the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, has lived in the Shu’afat refugee camp. He wants to to talk about the man and woman in the street, the “average” Palestinian.”
http://www.anorak.co.uk/423556/news/bassem-eid-has-a-message-for-the-bigots-anti-semites-and-the-bds-movement.html/
Uh-huh, because the failings of the oppressed somehow excuses the brutality of the oppressors.
Of course, his stance “earns” Eid a nice life in Jerusalem, invitations to all the best Western universities, publication in the J-Post and similar voices of the Zionist state and its enablers . . . so, there’s that.
“failings of the oppressed somehow excuses the brutality of the oppressors”
As usual, no ability to read beyond the title + reading comprehension problems, aside from propagating known lies about “oppressed” and “oppressors.”
The linked article is not about failings, but rather about what average Palestinians think about Israel and the conflict; and the truth is: they want jobs and safety for their kids, but unfortunately, they are ruled by homicidal cliques put millions of dollars given to them from all over the world 2/3 into their own pockets and 1/3 on weapons and explosives…
The most respected Jewish and Good Rabbis of true faith have a message for the zionists…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TdlJxW-m8A
Nut’n goes nuts.
Ya’alon directed scathing remarks about the direction Israel was heading in under Netanyahu’s leadership. Speaking at a youth seminar in Tel Aviv, he said he had been surprised of late at a “loss of moral compass on basic questions” in Israeli society, adding: “We need to steer the country in accordance with one’s conscious and not whichever way the wind is blowing.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/19/israeli-pm-asks-avigdor-lieberman-to-be-defence-minister-shock-move
update may 20. WAR WATCH!! Israel’s defense minister – good guy Moshe Yaalon – abruptly resigns in slap at growing ‘extremist and dangerous elements’! Moshe cites increasing racism and violence in the IDF are hurting Israel.
Crazed paranoid genocidal maniac Nuttinyahu goes berzerko! asks Avigdor Lieberman – a hard right racist – to be defence minister in shock move!
NUT’N is willing to bomb iran to bring America to his war for more territory by killing millions.
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/05/netanyahu-lieberman-israel
Facts are not your friends. Aren’t they? Netanyahu had made a decision to fire Yaalon for supporting an insubordinate general, and the former had already offered the post to Lieberman, while not knowing exactly what to do with Yaalon. Then Yaalon resigned.
Lieberman, in my view, will be good for both Israelis and Palestinians. Most countries blame Israel not for “atrocities” and other made up stuff, but rather for half steps, half measures and inability to resolve the multi-year conflict. If you are at war, you fight to the end, instead of sending ‘get out of the building’ leaflets. That’s kindergarten. And since no country on Earth would tolerate thousands of rockets regularly sent from an enemy.
Lieberman may have extreme views, but Israel has check and balances by way of legislature and courts which regularly strike down extreme views, such as the exclusion of Arab parties to run in elections.
And by the way, calling him a racist or “beheader” is not based on facts. Here are his words that were interpreted as a call for introduction of death penalty by beheading: “Whoever is with us should get everything. Whoever is against us, there’s nothing else to do. We have to lift up an axe and remove his head, otherwise we won’t survive here.” And by the way, Lieberman supports transferring Arab-Israeli areas to the future Palestinian State. That’s land for peace…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Lieberman
So, my bigoted “friend” Barabbas. Don’t mess with facts; they are your enemies. Better stick to your Zionista mantra
P.S. And by the way, my condolences to another bigoted “friend” -Mona-, as it looks like Greenwald has finally shut her down
zionism is a criminal cult
USS LIBERTY
DEIR YASSIN
UN RESOLUTION 3379
NAKBA
24 MARCH 1933
POLLARD
ISRAEL REFUSES TO SIGN NPT
SLAUGHTERED PALESTINE CHILDREN
DR. HAJO MEYER
RABBIS OPPOSE ZION
JESUS TURNING THE TABLES ON THE MONEY CHANGERS
JESUS ON THE CROSS
more references
Killing people to take their land without being prosecuted and getting away with it for 70 years is not a win. IT’S A CURSE.
Yes, my “friend.” That’s better. That’s your soup. Stick to it and don’t overload your brain with anything more…
Pathetic Assholes Conspiring to Boycott Israel
“Welcome to PACBI.com, the leading web site in the growing BDS movement!!
Here we tell you everything you need to know about anti-Zionism and BDS! Just what is BDS?
BDS stands for Bigots, Dingbats and Scoundrels. BDS-ers come from the goosestepping Neo-Nazi Right, from the bedwetting radical Left, from the “anarchist” anarcho-fascist movements, from the various front groups for the “International Solidarity Movement” or ISM (which stands for “I Support Murderers”)…. .
BDS is the official mantra of the anti-Semitic vermin and their genocidal fellow travelers, who are attempting to get the world to boycott Israel. The BDS scum consist of anti-Jewish racists seeking the annihilation of Israel and strive for a second Holocaust of the Jewish people. They work to achieve this while pretending that they think Israel mistreats Arabs. If they had been alive in the 1930s and 1940s, they would all have been participating in the German movement to boycott and divest from Jews!… .
Curiously, the BDS scum could not care less about Arabs being killed when the killers are other Arabs. Hundreds of thousands butchered in Algeria, genocide in Sudan, uses of chemical weapons against civilians in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey – none of this interests them. Palestinians murdered by Jordan do not interest them. Human rights of Arabs do not really interest them – after all, the only place in the Middle East where Arabs enjoy freedoms and where the human rights of Arabs are respected is in Israel!”
http://pacbi.com/
oh hell yes.
every zionist’s wet dream! do not click
zionism is
USS LIBERTY
DEIR YASSIN
NAKBA
24 MARCH 1933
POLLARD
ISRAEL REFUSES TO SIGN NPT
SLAUGHTERED PALESTINE CHILDREN
DR. HAJO MEYER
RABBIS OPPOSE ZION
JESUS TURNING THE TABLES ON THE MONEY CHANGERS
JESUS ON THE CROSS
more references
Killing people to take their land without being prosecuted and getting away with it for 70 years is not a win. IT’S A CURSE.
http://www.salon.com/2016/05/19/israels_new_defense_minister_avigdor_lieberman_is_a_far_right_extremist_who_called_for_beheading_disloyal_palestinian_citizens/
BDS ISRAEL
Nice to know that ISIS/Daesh has a soulmate.
More evident that they are one in the same…
take care….peace
Two effing bigots playing twat ball. Don’t you think there is a difference between calling for it or actually doing it daily?
Peace
I don’t play this game that you play here…herson. It is a waste of my valuable time and should be for you too.
You really don’t know what peace can be because you demonstrate the opposite…it’s a choice, it has fruit, and it gives life.
Have a nice day…
Legitimating Lies Through the BDS Movement
“Jed Babbin and Herbert London’s masterful new book, The BDS War Against Israel, opens with a blood-chilling quotation from Mao Zedong: “A lie repeated a hundred times becomes the truth.”… . Lies can self-replicate like viruses, taking on the character of commonplace truths with stunning rapidity. In this respect, the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement is an epidemic.
Most Americans first heard of BDS in the lead-up to the 2014 Super Bowl, when Scarlett Johansson stepped down as a “global goodwill ambassador” for the UK-based charity Oxfam. The charity objected to her endorsement of SodaStream, an Israeli company that—at the time—employed more than 500 Palestinians in “occupied” territory. In response to the controversy, Johansson remarked, “I stand behind that decision … Until someone has a solution to the closing of that factory, to leaving all those people destitute, [boycotting Israel] doesn’t seem like the solution to the problem.”
Johansson exposed an important truth about BDS when she called attention to the price its advocates expect Palestinians to pay: BDS isn’t really about the Palestinians at all.
As Babbin and London explain in this slender tour de force, the fundamental problem that the BDS movement is trying to solve is not Palestinian destitution. Nor, for that matter, is it ongoing human rights violations in the West Bank and Gaza. If it were, pro-Palestinian advocates would set their sights on Hamas brutality and P.A. kleptocracy. Rather, the “problem” BDS is out to solve is the very existence of the State of Israel. The solution? Israel’s isolation, delegitimation, and ultimate dissolution.
Babbin and London trace the roots of the BDS movement not to the boardrooms of NGOs or the studies of university professors. They pinpoint its birth to Tehran in February 2001, at a conference of NGOs convened in preparation for the World Conference against Racism in Durban, South Africa. Israeli officials and NGOs were naturally excluded from the Tehran conference, as were state supporters of Israel. With the deck thus stacked, the Conference resolved to include in the Durban agenda condemnations of Israeli “ethnic cleansing,” “genocide,” “apartheid,” and “racism.”
The United States and Israel withdrew from Durban before the conference even began, leaving the inmates to run the asylum…. . The NGO Forum Declaration essentially set the agenda for the BDS movement, calling for “the launch of an international anti Israeli Apartheid movement[,] … a policy of complete and total isolation of Israel as an apartheid state[, and] … [c]ondemnation of those states who are supporting, aiding, and abetting the Israeli Apartheid state and its perpetration of crimes against humanity including ethnic cleansing, acts of genocide.”
The libels have been given a veneer of legitimacy by the U.N. Human Rights Council, which currently includes such champions of human dignity as Congo, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.
On one level, these are only words: the words of bureaucrats, lawyers, and committees comfortably situated at Turtle Bay. But these words—genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid—may well out-libel even the blood libels of the Middle Ages, contaminating the public imagination and resulting in almost irrevocable bias in public discourse.”
http://freebeacon.com/culture/legitimating-lies-through-the-bds-movement/
Oh-oh! Duck!
Skull fragments from exploding heads can be really dangerous.
Neocon-Bashers Headline Koch Event as Political Realignment on Foreign Policy Continues
Eli Lake over at Bloomberg is barely holding it together…
Eli Lake, a hawkish supporter of Israeli government policies, expressed horror at their appearance on institute panels in a column on Wednesday, writing that “the Kochs have stayed away from the uglier fringes that blame Israel and its supporters for hijacking U.S. foreign policy. That is, until now.”
eli lake……. ahhhh , i recall hearing him and seeing him, heavyish balding head beady eyes doesnt blink blank expression like a mannequin. I recall wondering who pays people like him for doing what. Not that i recall anything verbatim except to file him in the wacko drawer – and he was really himmler sounding. And i wondered what kind of future a crazy sounder like him has on this planet. I think maybe we have too many stupid racist power mongering thief types making decisions that affect a whole lot of people.
Huffington Post, which is in no way a conservative publication:
The BDS Movement Is About Dismantling Israel, Not The ‘67 Occupation. … The BDS movement is designed to turn the clock back to the time before Israel was created. That will not happen. The solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is two states for two peoples. If that works out, they can confederate or merge later, whatever the two peoples decide. Or not. The BDS movement is irrelevant… ”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/the-bds-movent-is-about-d_b_5038233.html
I suppose it’s true that HuffPo is not “conservative” as that term is used in the US, but there is good reason to be skeptical of the alleged liberalism of a publication owned by Verizon Communications and founded by a woman who was a long-time cheerleader for the Right, including Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole, and who once wrote, “Women’s Lib claims that the achievement of total liberation would transform the lives of all women for the better; the truth is that it would transform only the lives of women with strong lesbian tendencies.”
Anyway, in this case, HuffPo is merely the publisher. The author, Rosenberg, although certainly more “progressive” than the rabid Zionist extremists currently infesting these threads, is, nonetheless, a Zionist himself, a former editor of the AIPAC newsletter.
Like the angry and irrational Zionists here, Rosenberg asserts that the achievement of the BDS goals would constitute “the destruction of Israel.” He quotes them:
How, as we have repeatedly asked our visiting Zionists, would achievement of those goals “destroy” Israel? Rosenberg explains:
So, what he really means, and what our angry Zionists here really mean, is that achievement of the goals could mean the end of a Jewish majority, established and maintained by force of arms, in service to a fervently-held belief in Euro-Jewish ethnic superiority and dedicated to the preservation of an apartheid state.
Whatever such a state may be, it is nothing remotely approaching a liberal democracy and there’s nothing admirable about it.
“How, as we have repeatedly asked our visiting Zionists, would achievement of those goals “destroy” Israel”
That question has been answered many times. Meet another Zionist, Norman Finkelstain, who calls BDS a cult and ghetto, where the guru fantasizes and the rest of the clan nod their heads.
1. BDS selectively picks a 1948 resolution and ignores 1967 and all others.
2. As Finkelstein continues: no country on Earth would sustain a massive change of demographics, such as the influx of 5-6 mln of Palestinians, in addition to about 1.5 mln who already reside in Israel. Germany would be destroyed if you move 40 mln Africans there, regardless of idiotic claims of colonialism.
And finally, the only rabid type here is you, Greenwald’s sock puppet. Someone, maybe you, claimed Greenwald doesn’t need Gestapo team to suppress dissent. Well, he certainly DOES for several reasons:
1. The Intercept enjoys very little popularity. Their comment sections, apart from known sock puppets, have single digit posts and this thread is a good example – deduct your clan’s posts and my, craigs, and a few more on the other side, and you can barely count 5 posts. They have very little public appeal, because they are fringe and dishonest. Hence, they employ you to stir controversy.
2. Being dishonest means propagating lies and deception, and as I have already said: those can only exist when there is no dissent.
Cheers
See Jayz’s post, just below.
Mmm, neither a country nor any any other community structure could survive such a change and retain its character. That’s probably why Palestinians refer to the 1948 exodus as the nakba, huh?
Haven’t you learned, by now, that these silly insults are ineffectual?
I know you’re not going to be able to understand this, but Greenwald doesn’t have, or need, sock puppets. I don’t think there’s a single regular in his forums who doesn’t feel fully free to disagree with, or even strenuously criticize, Glenn, when it’s considered appropriate. It’s not even unusual.
If you think there’s no dissent here, you either haven’t read enough or haven’t understood what you’ve read. Of course, it’s also possible that you simply assert what you want to be true, or what you want others to believe, without bothering with investigating reality. ;^(
Well, I’m not sure what counts as popularity and, frankly, I could give a shit. I’m pretty sure that the most popular media outlets are ones I’d never visit willingly.
On the other hand, I did notice, recently, that Glenn has more Twitter followers than Bibi Netanyahu, so . . . whatever. ;^)
I am interested in The Intercept’s ability to disseminate important views and information and the available evidence suggests that it is doing quite well at that. Here’s an exercise for you:
Google “The Intercept” and limit your results to the past week. Scroll through the results to see how much attention the world has paid to material published here recently.
Now, since TI is so unpopular and of so little import, you should probably move on to greener and more noticeable pastures to ply your trade.
“That’s probably why Palestinians refer to the 1948 exodus as the nakba, huh?”
1948 was a UN decision. Interestingly, at that time there was no Palestinian people. That term was made up many years later. Palestinians, as devout Muslims, cannot sell/give up a millimeter of the entire area including Israel proper – Allah prohibits that. Hence they need to exterminate all the Jews and conquer the land via Jihad. That’s what Hamas Charter confirms.
Re Intercept: I have already asked in several threads anyone to name any “disclosure” that hadn’t been known before for at least 5 years. There is no news here, just cookies: Kids love it, Papa Omidyar approves.
“Greener Pastures”. Sometimes you need to stick it into a hornets nest or an infectious boil to expose hateful filth.
P.S. I am not insulting anyone. These are facts and opinions based on facts.
For a rag that has so little popularity, as you claim, you spend an awful lot of time here. Sort of makes me figure you might be a compulsive liar.
Speaking of compulsive liars, what’s with that paranoid raving likud leader netanyahu and his hundreds of nukes and his refusing inspections and his unwillingness to sign the NPT?
Besides that, your anti-semitic remarks are really nasty. You should not berate jewish persons as you do. But i suppose that’s because you aren’t jewish, you’re probably one of them cult zionists and you know how good jewish persons dislike zionistas…
https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbis+opposed+to+zionism&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X
If you don’t mind, i would appreciate it if you would stop supporting genocide and land theft.
thank you.
It isn’t true that “lies and deception […] can only exist when there is no dissent.” When the liars and deceivers have control of most of the media and most politicians and are funded by billionaires like Sheldon Adelson (Republican Party), Haim Saban (Democrat Party) and other extremely rich people, their lies and deception will continue to reach more people than will the truths of those who dissent, although the brutal actions, including mass murder, by the liars and deceivers’ love object, the Jewish Club Med, do keep generating dissent.
Thank you for explaining the authorship of the HuffPost article.
I want to take on another issue that was reference in response to your explanation. The reference was made to 1967 resolutions. I am not sure what the relevance is, except perhaps to support a reason for the existence of BDS. I thought it would be instructive to see them in their entirety – specifically 2252, 2253, and 2254 which are perhaps related to BDS. 1967:
July 4: Resolution 2252: Humanitarian assistance in the 1967 war.
July 4: Resolution 2253 (ES-V): Condemns Israel’s measures to change the status of Jerusalem as invalid
July 14: Resolution 2254: “Deplores” Israel’s failure to abide by UN General Assembly Resolution 2253 (ES-V)
July 21: Resolution 2256: The Situation in the Middle East
September 18: Resolution 2257: The Situation in the Middle East.
November 16: Resolution 2264-D: Accounts of UNRWA.
December 13: Resolution 2304: UNEF.
December 19: Resolution 2341: Palestinian refugees
Additional deplorations and condemnations can be found at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine
Nice changing of the subject. What Finkelstein was referring to was the resolution that created Israel proper, aside from disputed territories. And bringing to Israel 5-7 mln of Arabs, as BDS demands, would totally destroy Israel’s demographics, which would equal to bringing 40 mln of Africans to Germany. Both countries would be destroyed.
“Additional deplorations and condemnations can be found at.”. Nice try at propaganda.
Your link directs to the UN Human Rights Council, which has about 7 countries-liberal democracies and the rest 40 includes such bastions of human rights as
Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast, Ethiopia, Kenya, Tongo, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Philippines, United Arab Emirates, Botswana, Congo, Ghana, Nigeria, India, Indonesia, Qatar, Albania, China, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, Morocco, Namibia. In most of these countries, they heck each other to death, behead or stone people. In addition, most of those countries are Muslim, so, with the name of Christ, the first “Palestinian Martyr killed” by the Jews, they condem and deplore Israel. This entity has produced more anti-Israel resolutions than the entire amount of UN General Assembly and Security Council (on Israel) combined.
You, BDS puppets have lost your minds and souls forever. You don’t make any sense. All you do is heckle…
Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.
“The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.”
If only that homeland hadn’t also been the long-time homeland of others, who didn’t relish being an oppressed minority, eh, what?
Yup, that’s MJ’s opinion. I strongly encourage you to adopt his view that BDS is “irrelevant,” and go be about your rancid ways. But the vast majority of Zionists — certainly the rightwing ones like you who discount “liberal” Jews when it suits you to do so — are increasingly frantic about it.
speaking of 1967, i believe on June 8 of 1968 the USS Liberty was attacked by a squadron of israeli jets trying to sink her because of the communication it intercepted and their witness to israel attack on egypt to steal the Sinai. Well israel landed lots of torpedos and heavy canon fire, didn’t sink the ship but did manage to murder 34 Americans.
with friends like that who needs enemies.
as for huffy, they are only deceptively left. They absolutely avoid issues of ownership and power – but they do entertain.
did you happen to come across any writers at the huffy who witnessed the mangling of women and children of Palestinians in Palestine?
One of Greenwald’s twats wanted proof that Norman Finkelstein supported the BDS (he does support BDS, but calls them a cult that want nothing less than the destruction of Israel. Here are his own words (namely, he says he supports them, and at the same time calls them a cult:
“I support the BDS, but I said it will never reach a broad public until and unless they are explicit on their goal and their goal has to include recognition of Israel or it is a non starter. It won’t reach the public, because the moment you go out there, Israel will start to say what about us and they won’t recognize our right. And in fact that’s correct. You can’t answer the Israelis on that, because thy are making the statement that is factually correct… . Are you going to reach a broad public which is going to hear the Israeli side ‘they want to destroy us?’ No you’re not. And frankly you know what you shouldn’t. You shouldn’t reach a broad public because you’re dishonest. And I wouldn’t trust those people if I had to live in this state. I wouldn’t. It’s dishonesty.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iggdO7C70P8
Uh-huh. A guy who calls us members of a “cult” really supports us. Nobody in BDS thinks he supports it, and he doesn’t.
Steve confusingly (and confusedly) states:
How does a “Jewish state” have a majority? How does it “use democracy” to make declarations of any sort?
Now, I’m familiar with how Apartheid South Africa had a white majority by means it also insisted were “democratic.” Please explain the mechanisms, the processes whereby Israel is a majority “Jewish state” that got there and stays there “democratically. ” That is, if Israel isn’t akin to Apartheid South Africa.
Mona once again trying to reconcile a mass murderer with being a Zionists (before Adolph Eichmann went mad). Even the racists at Stormfront might cringe at some of your proclamations. You should just “STFU” about this topic, Mona.
David Cesarani describes the upbringing of Adolph Eichmann in northern Austria:
“……But describing a gentile Austrian in the 1920’s as an anti-Semite is like describing a white Mississippian in the 1920’s as a racist……”
In other words, Eichmann far from being a Zionist was just a typical anti-Jewish bigot of the times (regardless of whether he worked around Jews). There is nothing in your response that remotely supports that Eichmann was a Zionist i.e., that he believed in Jewish self-determination (as Shalev pointed out – and you belittled). There is no documentation that supports that he even sympathized with the plight of the Jews at any point leading to the Holocaust. As he admitted under cross examination during his trial in Israel (Wikipedia):
“…….When Hausner produced evidence that Eichmann had stated in 1945 that “I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction”, Eichmann said he meant “enemies of the Reich” such as the Soviets.[173] During later examination by the judges, he admitted he meant the Jews, and said the remark was an accurate reflection of his opinion at the time…..”
Cesarani shows from his study of Nazi documents that Eichmann “subscribed to the Central tenets of Nazi ideology as early as 1937”. In a review of Cesarani’s life by Margelit Fox (NYT), she writes about Cesarani’s book, “Becoming Eichmann”:
“…….He argued that Eichmann, while indeed an efficient bureaucrat eager to rise through the ranks of Third Reich leadership, subscribed to the central tenets of Nazi ideology far more than she [Arendt] was willing to acknowledge…….Among the archival evidence he invoked were lectures and reports by Eichmann dating as far back as 1937 that show him, Professor Cesarani wrote, “in the grip of a fantasy that there was a world Jewish conspiracy against Germany.”……” my insert in brackets
I realize none of this means anything to your “ideas” that Zionism and Nazism are one in the same. To do that, you have to erase thousands of years of antisemitism which culminated in the Holocaust – the absolute justification for the Zionist movement. Indeed, you ignore the conditions for Jews in Nazi Germany when judging that Zionists collaborated with the Nazis. You called me “vile” for supporting torture after 911, but you are far worse. You are a lost cause – and I (more than anyone else on this site) realize I am wasting my time.
Oh, that is good news indeed! I, like most, don’t read your long, poorly formatted drivel, but I do scan and note the last sentences.
But before you go — so as not to waste any more of your time — perhaps you can answer my questions. Who wrote: “The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
My advice: play hard to get. Really hard to get
Quiz:
Muslim states are acceptable and Arab states are acceptable yet a Jewish state is “RACIST/UNACCEPTABLE” because:
1) I’m an anti-semite
2) Actually, if Muslim and Arab state are OK, obviously a Jewish state is OK too.
Watch and see who takes this quiz yet is unable to actually answer the question.
ALL modern states need to collectively reflect the higher consciousness, regardless of if it’s based on religion, ethnicity, race, culture, or if it is democratic or not.
The same goes for those groups who do not have a state.
A state, or a non state group, that reflects the higher consciousness reflects these qualities by definition:
Selflessness, generosity, love, justice, peace, not doing unto others what one doesn’t want done unto oneself, forgiveness, sharing, serving others with no expectations, humility, lack of desire for power, control, and resources, seeing no otherness, etc.
Our discussions should be over what is morally right, and not who did what and blaming the other.
Human beings do have the potential to reflect the higher to a varying degree, but our lower self, which reflects qualities opposite to what I have listed, gets in the way, and makes a distinction between “us” and “them.”
So while we may love those who are one of “us”, we tend to behave differently towards “them”.
So what is needed is to develop our inner self so that it sees “them” as “us”, and love the “them” even if “they” were once “our” enemies.
We have tried political and military means to sort things out.
Why not consider trying a moral approach adhering to values that transcend religious and non-religious boundaries?
:)
“Why not consider trying a moral approach adhering to values that transcend religious and non-religious boundaries?”
Sufi, I’m so glad you hang out here, with all of us fighters, to remind us of gentler possibilities.
I can be a little, er, sharp in my repartee, but having her around does inhibit me some. In all seriousness, I sometimes consider: “What would Sufi think?”
Yup. She’s a “good influence” on us. Not, of course, that she’s succeeded in reforming us and moderating our rough-and-tumble tendencies. ;^)
I’d miss her if she were to leave us.
Nothing has changed!
All the whataboutery, the yelling, the name-calling, and you still don’t have an answer. Because starving others, collective punishment, targeted killings, hate mongering, and occupation are not justifiable – and you know it. That is why you have outshout others and shut down debate. That is why you are fearful of the BDS debate.
Don’t raise your voice, improve your argument!
The occupation began because Israel was attacked.
The Occupation is a matter of life & death for the Israelis. Because Israel pulled out of Gaza, the Palestinians were able to launch thousands of rockets & mortars killing or wounding 2,000 Israelis. If Israel pulls out of the West Bank, even more Israelis will be killed or wounded.
Well, yes, oppressed, colonized victims of racism and theft often attack their oppressor. Weird, I know.
If you think ending the occupation would be dangerous to Israelis, perhaps you should put some thought into how to make amends and start dealing with your victims justly. Because if you don’t find a way to satisfy your ideology’s victims, BDS is going to turn Israel deservedly into the demon-state of the Western world.
BTW. it’s cute how this account’s role is good commenter who remains polite and calm. While one of the other accounts, “herson” you free up to act as the vicious sociopath that you are. (Any reader who thinks that characterization is extreme, should simply ask me why I say that.)
The occupation of the West Bank was the result of Jordan’s attack against Israel in 1967. At that time, the Palestinians of the West Bank were in union with Jordan. Remember that the Palestinians of the West Bank had asked for union with Jordan at the Jericho Convention of 1948. Jordan’s attack against Israel was a land grab. Jordan was not an oppressed, colonized victim of racism.
“RENEGADE JEW”
I’m feeling a new screen name….
Isn’t that awesome? But Frank Luntz is kinda right — it does have a bad ass ring to it. And Bill Kristol ain’t that.
SUMMARY:
Extremist bigot who seems to want the world’s only Jewish state erased, and who promotes global hateful blacklisting against Israeli artists, musicians, universities, culture, etc. complains that he feels slightly blacklisted in response.
LOL!
Steve, a question if you please. What is a “Jewish state?” Is that like a “White Christians state?” If not, why not?
Aren’t there plenty of “White Christian” states?
The concept of a Jewish state was and is fine. The problem of course was the location, which unfortunately was not chosen on humanitarian or egalitarian grounds.
No. Not any longer. The last one, Aparthied South Africa, collapsed.
Is not Europe filled with White Christian states? Aren’t some of them going nuts because an influx of non-white non-Christians allegedly threatens their whiteness and Christianness?
South Africa under apartheid was a white state, but could hardly be considered a christian state, given the significant, if not dominant, economic power of Jewish capitalists in that state/society.
The Jewish state is the one tiny state that has a Jewish majority and uses democracy to declare itself a Jewish state.
Just like there are 20+ Arab-majority states and 50+ Muslim majority countries.
Anti-semites like to criticize the existence of the world’s one tiny Jewish-majority state, while of course accepting the 20 Arab states and the 50 Muslim countries.
Mona
Why are you only interested in a “Jewish state”, but not an Armenian state, a South Ossetian state, an Abkhazian state or even an Islamic state?
You don’t need to respond. I already know the answer.
You are an Israel firster……….
The World created Israel as a refuge for Jews.
If Israel had been created 10 years earlier,
6 millions Jews would not have been murdered in the Holocaust.
Internet comment sections in 2016, where mentally-ill anti-semites try to convince Jewish people that the world’s only Jewish state should commit suicide.
Not going to happen. There are 20 Arab states, and 50 Muslim countries, and one tiny little Jewish state. And the one tiny little Jewish state is going to keep defending itself, even if crazed loons on far-left websites waste 18 hours a day of their miserable lives trying to convince people that destroying the world’s only Jewish state isn’t bigotry against Jews.
Ah, Steve, happy to see you again. Do you want to play a guessing game? Steve, who wrote this: “The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
Because I’m wondering whether the violently deranged Zionist settlers in the West Bank — the terrorists who burn Arab infants to death in an arson-murder leaving the 4-year-old sibling orphaned — Steven, do you think it possible that some Palestinians might concluded that whoever called the Jewish people “nasty” had a point?
Every group has good people & every group has bad people.
People should be judged as individuals.
Judging people by their membership in a group is racism & it’s stupid.
Yes, but groups of people (states and non states) usually go in the direction their leaders do, which in turn is the result of their (leaders’) inner states.
When those in the position of power and control collectively reflect the higher self, chances are the entire group of people will benefit in good ways.
If an old lady living in a remote village in Peru acts with generosity, love, serving others with no expectations, etc., her good works will have limited effect on those around her.
If the world leaders acted with love, generosity, serving others with no expectations, with lack of lust for power and control, and not doing to others what one doesn’t want done unto one, etc., their positive effects would be global, and much larger populations would benefit.
Sadly, the political systems in existence are not designed to produce the most selfless, gentle, loving, humble, truthful, leaders.
So we get what we see.
I wrote: “… her good works will have limited effect on those around her.”
I should’ve written: “… the effect of her good works will be limited to those around her.”
BDS is not a peace movement. It doesn’t just promote a Palestinian state. BDS promotes ethnic cleansing of Jews entirely out of the West Bank, BDS is OK with Gaza having literally zero Jews, BDS promotes a Palestinian state that would blatantly discriminate against any Jew. AND BDS promotes the act of millions of Arabs/Muslims flooding into the world’s one tiny Jewish state WITH THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE of ERASING Israel as a Jewish state SPECIFICALLY so there’d be a Palestinian state run by Arabs/Muslims AND Israel being ERASED and ALSO being run by Arabs/Muslims.
BDS basically tells Jews that their nationalism is evil yet Arab and Muslim and Palestinian nationalism is ENCOURAGED. BDS tells Jews that they have to commit national suicide or else they’re “racist.”
BDS tells Israelis that they must suicide their own homeland and allow a massive Jew-hating population conquer Israel and erase Israel or else Israelis are “racist.”
BDS isn’t about peace or co-existence, it’s just an assault on Israel’s very existence.
In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority makes it ILLEGAL for any Palestinians to sell a house to a Jewish person. This is blatant anti-semitism that the world of BDS OPENLY ACCEPTS.
BDS doesn’t just fight Israel’s “occupation.” Israel won that extra land in DEFENSIVE wars, and Israel won that land from EGYPT and JORDAN, not from “Palestinians.” BDS also makes no demands of peace towards Israel. Israel is expected by BDS to hand land and power to rabid Jew-haters who want Israel destroyed, AND BDS demands the “right” of millions of Arabs to enter Israel, be handed citizenship, so they can vote to… erase Israel.
The world’s only Jewish state isn’t going to commit suicide, even if this is going to make crazed Internet lunatics upset.
Steve, this assertion is puzzling:
Omar Barghouti from the interview above:
Steve, I’ve concluded that you are a very excitable man who can’t read well. Because I have to tell you, I see nothing there abut “conquering” or “erasing” and all that other hysterical nonsense you just spewed.
The Occupation is a matter of life & death for the Israelis. Because Israel pulled out of Gaza, the Palestinians were able to launch thousands of rockets & mortars killing or wounding 2,000 Israelis. If Israel pulls out of the West Bank, even more Israelis will be killed or wounded.
How is it that Horilly Clinton is willing to allow the genocide of Palestinians and not be a racist?
There is no “genocide” of Palestinians. The Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza grows each year. The population of Israeli Arab citizens also grows each year.
That’s pretty much the OPPOSITE of a “genocide.”
If you want genocide, you should look at what jihadists are doing in Syria, Iraq, etc.
Oooooooooh noooooooo!!! Sooo there was noooooo “genocide” of teh joooooooooooooooos. Teh joooooooooooos population in teh world is estimated to be somewhere between 14 and 22 million jooooooooooos. Teh population of teh joooooooooooooooos grooooooooooooos each year.
That’s pretty much teh OPPOSITE of a “genocide”, nuuuuuuuuuu?
So, if you want genocide, you should look at what your jooooohadists are doing in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc., aided and abetted by your joooooooohadist lovin’ White House, Whitehall, Bundeskanzleramt, French Fifth Republic, etc., etc….
Say Steve, while we have you, do you feel that “the Jewish people are a very nasty people” and that their neighbors “hate it?” I’ve read an impeccable source say this is so.
DEIR YASSIN
British journalist, Geoffrey Wheatcroft, in 1996 published a book detailing the rise of political Zionism and the support for it from myriad antisemitic nationalists in various countries. In this work, The Controversy of Zion, Wheatcroft concludes:
Wheatcroft won the 1996 National Jewish Book Award.
The Controversy of Zion is a really excellent work. Highly recommended.
herson
Hmmm, I wonder. Are there any reasons a Palestinian cleric might hate Jews? I’ve read a respected (in Israel) figure say: “The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
I got tot thinking about that, and remembered that Israeli, David Sheen, translated a slew of Israeli tweets from Hebrew into English a bit under two years ago:
You really have to see these tweets to believe it: Terrifying Tweets of Pre-Army Israeli Teens
herson, do you suppose there’s any relationship between those heinous but pervasive sentiments among Israeli Jews on the one hand, and on the other, many Palestinians strongly feeling that “the Jews are a very nasty people?”
Hear israeli children being approved for their attitudes to killing Palestinians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUU05ej4le0
herson
Well, apparently that’s understandable. You see, I’ve read it said by an unassailable authority that “The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
I wonder, did this PA cleric become persuaded this is true, when he saw that a very popular Israeli rabbi, Yitzhak Shapira, wrote:
The same (very popular, in Israel) Rabbi Shapira is strongly supported by Dov Lior, the former Chief Rabbi of the Israel Defense Forces. Maybe that PA cleric knows:
I mean, herson, do you suppose there’s some reasons Israel’s neighbors seem to hate it and feel that “the Jews are a very nasty people?”
Some more hints. It was not any of: Ken Livingston, a member of UK’s Labour Party, a Communist, a Christian or Max Blumenthal who wrote: “The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
I’ve narrowed it down, so some guesses please.
Jabo the zio.
Palestinian Authority Cleric calls for killing of Jews and Americans – Video
“Dr. Ahmad Yousuf Abu Halabiah, a member of the Palestinian Shari’ah (Islamic religious law) Rulings Council, and Rector of Advanced Studies at the Islamic University:
“The Jews are the Jews, whether Labor or Likud, the Jews are the Jews. They do not have any moderates or any advocates of peace. They are all liars… They must be butchered and they must be killed, as Allah said [in the Quran]: ‘Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands. He will humiliate them, and grant you victory over them.’ The Jews are like a spring: As long as you step on it with your foot, it doesn’t move. But if you lift your foot off the spring, it hurts you and punishes you. This is the case of the Jews. Have no mercy on the Jews anywhere in any country. [Quran]: ‘Fight them wherever you are, wherever you meet them – kill them.’ Wherever you are – kill those Jews and those Americans”
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=1062&fld_id=1062&doc_id=3884
But herson, is it true that “the Jews are a very nasty people,” and a neighbor like that cleric is right to hate it?
israeli children wanting to kill Palestinians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUU05ej4le0
one boy said he wants to kill 85.
israel is an apartheid rogue state that brings turmoil to the planet and paints America as a target.
israel has a PM who is absolutely paranoid mad.
did i mention israel has hundreds of nukes, refuses inspections, wont sign the NPT? AT LEAST NORTH KOREA IS BETTER THAN THAT.
Here is another Palestinian “peacenik”
“The Hour [of Resurrection] will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, and the rock and the tree will say: ‘Oh, Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, kill him!’ We must remind our Arab and Muslim nation – its leaders and people, its scholars and students – remind them that Palestine and the Al-Aqsa Mosque will not be liberated through summits nor by international resolutions; rather, it will be liberated through the rifle.”
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=1062&fld_id=1062&doc_id=1736
Say, do you agree that the Jews are a “very nasty people?” Do you agree that it’s neighbors are “right to hate it?”
My longish post describing how Israel’s Haifi University is offering a course in how to be a pro-Israel propagandist online.
My full post on Adolph Eichmann, who said he was a Zionist.
What, no one wants to guess who wrote: “The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
Some hints. It was none of: The Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Omar Barghouti, a BDS activist, a Muslim, any reader of Glenn Greenwald’s, a Nazi, or a white supremacist.
~???? ????????
Doug, I’m shocked — shocked, I tell you! — that herson isn’t outraged and demanding to know who made that virulently antisemitic statement so that he can denounce him.
Let’s negotiate peace with Palestinians!
A preacher at the Al-Aqsa Mosque:
Allah could kill all Jews, but Allah wants Palestinians to carry out Ribat (religious conflict)
Sheikh Khaled Al-Mughrabi, teaches Islam twice a week in the Al-Aqsa Mosque:?
?“Allah can annihilate all the Jews down to the last one, throughout the world. But what ?does Allah want? He wants us to fulfill His command.”
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=1062&fld_id=1062&doc_id=16218
Here is the Palestinian Authority TV Preacher calling for killing of all Jews and atheists, Video:
“Allah, punish Your enemies, the enemies of religion, count their numbers and kill them to the last one, and bring them a black day . Allah, punish the wicked Jews, and those among the atheists who help them. Allah, we ask that You bestow upon us respect and honor by enabling us to repel them, and we ask You to save us from their evil.”
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=1062
PA representatives – video:
“Moses was a Muslim who led Palestinian Muslims out of Egypt and liberated Palestine
Interview with Dr. Omar Ja’ara, lecturer at An-Najah University in Nablus, and specialist in Israeli affairs on PA TV:
“We must make clear to the world that David in the Hebrew Bible is not connected to David in the Quran, Solomon in the Hebrew Bible is not connected to Solomon in the Quran, and neither is Saul or Joshua son of Nun [of the Bible]. We have a great leader, Saul, [in the Quran] who defeated the nation of giants and killed Goliath. This is a great Muslim victory. The Muslims of the Children of Israel went out of Egypt under the leadership of Moses, and unfortunately, many researchers deny the Exodus of those oppressed people who were liberated by a great leader, like Moses the Muslim, the believing leader, the great Muslim, who was succeeded by Saul, the leader of these Muslims in liberating Palestine.”
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=496&fld_id=496&doc_id=6717
that was then
this is now
“The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
Guess who wrote that?
http://www.truetorahjews.org/jabotinsky
Vladimir Jabotinsky
There is no justice, no law, and no God in heaven, only a single law which decides and supercedes all—- [Jewish] settlement [of the land].” (Righteous Victims, p. 108)
The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.
tags:
Vladimir Jabotinsky
Anti-Religious
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Amazing how hate becomes “righteous” . (SELF righteous)
Palestinian Authority Teaches:
We must not forget that Messiah [Jesus] is a Palestinian, the son of Mary the Palestinian.” [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Nov. 18, 2005
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=505
We must not forget that Jesus The Savior turned the tables on the moneychangers – the wallstreet of His time – so they had him murdered.
Never forget that JFK was murdered after turning the tables of the moneychangers with Executive Order 11110.
Readers:
This site has been heavily afflicted with hasbara trolls, likely all one person using many accounts. He/they have been banned upwards of 10 times for stalking people/real-life harassment, gross anti-Muslim bigotry, copyright violations and crapflooding the comments with huge quantities of drivel.
In his/their latest iteration he/they go by: “herson,” “Steve,” and “Jack Green.” Do scroll right on past these nuisances. (The staff will eventually ban these accounts as well, but in the meantime they create malicious mischief. )
For your convenience, I’ve put together a compendium of links to some of my substantive posts in the first third of this thread — which usually include documentation — comments which many readers find useful and informative.
Fatah Facebook shows children learning “Palestine cannot be divided”
“We educate our children on the national anthem every morning. They will memorize the anthem of ‘return'; they will engrave the four-colored [Palestinian] flag on their hearts; they will learn the foundations of the revolution before they learn to read and write; they will only agree to one rule, which cannot be added to, subtracted from, or calculated: that Palestine cannot be divided.”
http://www.palwatch.org/pages/allmaps.aspx
the zionista criminal thieves (who pretend to be jewish) want to divide Palestine but also to divide people – especially children.
warning. divided children by israeli IDF
Re: Adolph Eichmann, who said he was a Zionist
Last month the UK Israel Lobby tried to destroy Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party, with accusations of antisemitism for, in sum and substance, telling the truth about mutual support between German Zionists and the Nazis. This smear campaign failed; the Labour Party, and Corbyn, are now even more popular.
To understand why Eichmann could be both a Zionist and also have committed the atrocities he did, one must understand a very critical thing about the man: As Hannah Arendt showed and wrote of after attending his Jerusalem trial, Eichmann not only wasn’t a monster driven by a raging ideology*, he was simply a bureaucrat. (Initially a controversial thesis, Arendt’s scholarship and view have emerged as dominant.)
Eichmann thought of himself as a go along to get along guy, and had never evinced particular hatred for Jews. The NYT:
Adolph Eichmann was not an especially bright man; he served as a cog in a bureaucratic wheel, one that facilitated atrocities because that is what his job was. He considered himself a supremely practical man and as such, likely felt that Zionism was simply as “sensible” for Jews as National Socialism was for Germany.
The Israeli paper, Haaretz, has affirmed this:
Hitler wasn’t a Zionist, but he did give his passive and sometimes active support to the limited collaboration between the Zionist movement and the Nazi regime throughout the 1930s. It was Adolf Eichmann, in fact, who once reportedly declared, “I am a Zionist.”
Haaretz quibbles abut what Eichman meant by that, but they reported it.
*Altho Cesarani argues that after the Holocaust was well underway at some point Eichmann adopted eliminationist antisemitism as his own.
(h/t craigsummers)
ashkeNAZI.
In israel today, the ashkenazi’s consider themselves to be above the sephardics.
Abbas with map of “Palestine” that includes Israel and the PA areas
http://www.palwatch.org/pages/allmaps.aspx?fld_id=727&doc_id=5802
Hamas TV teaches children to kill ‘all Jews’
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/05/hamas-tv-teaches-children-to-kill-all-jews/
teaching children how to be monstrous genocidal terrorists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEBkQqzIKus
interviewer: “how many do you want to kill?”
child: “85”
zionism is an international criminal organisation.
They kill to take territory and call it defence.
do not click
Zionistas were comprised of bankers in the latter 1800’s and are responsible for the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln. It is also known they had a hand in the assassination of John F Kennedy because he signed executive order 11110 which tied the U.S. dollar to silver. The zionist objection to this was that this order would prevent them from gaining power over countries and populations because it would prevent the fraudulent valuation of stocks thus disabling hedge fund profits based on fraudulent valuations.
China has immunized their currency from the criminal zionista takeover by grounding their currency to gold.
Hilariously, Zionist neocons are being hoist on their own petard of faux “antisemitism” nonsense; “Renegade Jew”
Bill Kristol has spent his career lying and shilling for Israel and agitating for ever more wars. He and/or his publications have played the “unfit” or “self-hating” Jew and antisemitism cards too many times to count. So have the intellectually stunted lads and lasses at both Breitbart “News” and the McCarthyite zealot David Horowitz and his Frontpagemagazine.
Now, they are so deliciously consuming one another.
Grab some popcorn and read the whole thing!
Ha! That’s great!
Of course, using that label for Kristol is an insult to real renegade Jews, everywhere.
Twitter has been a lot of fun with this. Much hilarity is ensuing.
Arab teachers’ association:
“We teach that Palestine – from north to south,
from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea – is Islamic Palestinian Arab”
The teacher’s argument that Islam “dictates” that “Palestine” is Islamic and that it includes all of Israeli land, follows a statement by Mahmoud Abbas’ advisor on religious affairs, Mahmoud Al-Habbash, who recently prohibited accepting Israel’s existence in the name of Islam:
“Al-Habbash emphasized that according to Islamic Shari’ah law, the entire land of Palestine is waqf (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law) and is blessed land, and that it is prohibited to sell, bestow ownership or facilitate the occupation of even a millimeter of it.”
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=13263
Yet, Islam’s primary source, The Quran, states that that land was promised to the Children of Israel by God.
Sufi, this man is vicious and deeply bigoted. He calls Palestinians “barbaric savages,” “things” and “animals.”
His soul is dead.
Hi sufi
Mona writes:
“……Sufi, this man is vicious and deeply bigoted. He calls Palestinians “barbaric savages,” “things” and “animals.”
Mona is deeply bigoted saying that Adolph Eichmann – one of the biggest contributors to mass murder in historic times – was a Zionist. Mona can no more be trusted to determine who is a bigot than Adolph Hitler (another Zionist according to Ken Livingston and Mona).
Hi Sufi
Herrsommer writes:
“……Mona is deeply bigoted saying that Adolph Eichmann – one of the biggest contributors to mass murder in historic times – was a Zionist. Mona can no more be trusted to determine who is a bigot than Adolph Hitler (another Zionist according to Ken Livingston and Mona).”
Zio bigot herrsommer is deeply in denial, ignoring all the evidence that Adolph Eichmann – one of the biggest contributors to mass murder in historic times – was a good little Jew-hating Zio. Zio anti-Semite and Jew-hater, herrsommer, can no more be trusted to determine who is a bigot than David Grün (another good little Jew-hating Zio, anti-Semite, and major contributor to mass murder in historic times, according to the historical record).
Do you think Palestinians read Quran?
Do you “think”, zio?
Nah, of course you don’t, nor can you, zio – cuz Zionism killed your brain, and now you’re a psychotic little zio window licker.
the likud party in israel is a NAZI STYLED regime composed of zionists.
Zionism is a criminal organisation of thieves who kill to steal land and run fraudulent currency systems in many countries – especially the US.
Zions have an unlimited supply of nuclear weapons, forbid inspections, won’t sign the NPT, and rob the US of military secrets (Pollard).
The zions have a plan to master the planet beginning with the YINON PLAN and then on to the rest of the planet using FIAT CURRENCY to RUN ROB & RUIN countries one after the other.
meanwhile – this does not bother them do not click this link
“We teach that Palestine – from north to south, from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea – is Islamic Palestinian Arab”
Well, we certainly can’t have that! It’s inconsistent with Eretz Yisrael Hashlemah.
“We certainly can’t have that”
Who is We, Dougy? You are confused, bud. For you “We” would be you and the Palestinians. :)
LMAO…Yea, you inane little zio cretin, because he isn’t a filthy little Palestinian-hating anti-Semite, like you.
Mona
“……Israel apologists can rant about their contrived “antisemitism” all they like…..”
Ken Livingston:
“………Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews…….”
This is the classic example of “contrived” (far left wing) anti-Jewish Bigotry. In an age where Harvard University has come under fire for financial ties to slave owners, it is hard to believe that Mona cannot see the offensive nature of this comment:
“……The crest, which depicts three sheaves of wheat, comes from the Royall family. They were a powerful slave-owning clan in Colonial America. It was Isaac Royall, Jr. who left land to Harvard College to set up a professorship in law, leading to the creation of Harvard Law School in 1817…..”
Mona – a fierce defender of racism.
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
geesh mona, you’re on these guys like white on rice.
my hero!
And I will be in every Israel-Palestine thread in which they participate. the “herson” entity is going to be banned again from time to time, just as some 10 of his other accounts have been. But until then, and if he comes back yet again, I’ll be here.
The fools don’t realize they simply provide me fodder to do two tings: 1. Document the depravity of Zionists, as in the tale of what “herson” did to me to harass me in my real live, and 2. To document an endless stream of my extensive knowledge of the crimes of Zionists and the State of Israel.
By doing this I’ve been reminded of some material I had forgotten, and have discovered yet more. They are literally refining my effectiveness. This material will be used in many other venues.
very good.
thank you.
This is a daily occurrence in The Only Democracy™: Israeli forces demolish 2 Palestinian homes in Jerusalem’s Old City
“Judaization.” But None Dare Call it Ethno-Religious Supremacy.
“The method of collective punishment so far has proved effective.”
~Moshe Dayan
Mmm. But for how much longer?
“Israel Firster” is antisemitic>?
Zionist and Israel make it very difficult for pro-Palestinian activists to admonish those who conflate Zionism with Jews pers se. Netanyahu often says he speaks for “the Jewish people,” and stuff like this:
With this constant insistence that Jewish citizens of the U.S., Canada and the nations of Europe are actually only “home” in Israel, how is one to effectively counter that all Jews are “Israel Firsters?” What does one say to accusations that they place the welfare of Israel, as they perceive that, before the interests of their own country?
Indeed, how can it be “antisemitic” to call a Jew in America an “Israel Firster” when the Prime Minister of Israel says that that Jewish person, like all Jews, is “home” in Israel? When Jews, including rabbis, declare that Jews must vote in the U.S with Israel first in mind, how is it antisemitic to note this?
Netanyahu, whatever he may believe, in no way speaks for American Jews or Jews worldwide. His constituency comprises a mere plurality of Jews in Israel. In other words, what Netanyahu says has little if any bearing on what may be considered antisemitic in the context of discussion of American Jews. In other words, screw Netanyahu.
With that said, I am not troubled by the term “Israel Firster,” which I think accurately describes some American Jews (and even some American gentiles).
I wonder how many of those Christian Zionists could be characterized as “Israel Firsters?” They tend to vote Republican anyway, because “family values.” But they believe the State of Israel is critical to their Lord and Savior returning and disappearing them up into heaven.
welcome.
The times they are a changin’. Zionist smears of Jeremy Corbyn and the UK’s Labour Party have failed. Per The Independent today: Jeremy Corbyn would win a second Labour leadership contest with even more support, poll finds
Israel apologists can rant about their contrived “antisemitism” all they like. Or carry on as inanely as they do here with: “Soros arglebargle Salon fascists blah, blah, fascists, Salon and besides Palestinians are animals.” All they are doing is making themselves repugnant to decent people.
Moreover, after all the shrieking and whining about “antisemitism”:
This will only improve as the oldest generation — deeply indoctrinated in a false Zionist narrative — dies off and the millennials and their successors join the ranks of voters.
So, have your fun here kids spewing absurdities. It won’t help. Israel either ends the apartheid and gives justice to the Palestinians, or Israel is a pariah state under the hostile and angry gaze of a world horrified by its racist, ethno-supremacy and vicious carnage of its victims.
#BDS
@Craigsummers: The arguments advanced on this thread have nothing to do with the Palestinians.
But of course. The modern fascists, who hide under the fig leaf of liberalism, care NOT about Arabs or Palestinians. According to their master plan designed by a psychopath, the founding Daddy of Open Society Institute (as well as Salon, a sewer media outlet propagating lies, libel and deception), they use disenfranchised/broke down peoples to destroy sovereignty of prosperous societies. Syrian refugees flooding Europe, anyone? That’s what they call opening societies. Here come Salon’s ugly children, useful idiots of the Intercept.
P.S. And by the way, with this latest “sensational ” disclosure of the latest Snowden’s batch, I have a simple request: name one thing disclosed that hadn’t been known by the informed for at least 5 prior years…
@porkski/herrsommer: The arguments advanced on this thread have everything to do with the Palestinians.
But of course! You indoctrinated Israel-worshiping zio fascists, who hide under the fig leaf of “anti-Semitism”, care NOT about Jews or Palestinians. According to your “master plan”, designed by a psychopath and Jew hater, the founding Daddy of the suicidal cult of zion (a psychotic white European wannabe colonizer and sewer human who propagated lies, libel and deception), you use “anti-Semitism” to justify disenfranchising people, ethnically cleansing people and to manufacture “sovereignty” for your precious little zio-fascist colony and garrison state in an ethnically cleansed Palestine. Palestinian refugees flooding Syria, because your genocidal zio-terrorist-colonizers and murderers chose to begin their ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1947, not even three years after the Holocaust of the Jews and barely a year after the Nuremberg executions, anyone? JSIL patching up Islamist fighters and sending them back into battle , so “neutral”, so “humanitarian”, and so beyond fucked up. Yep, better batten down those hatches world: Here come the ugly Zionism swilling children of “israel”, the useful idiots of the suicidal cult of zion, your forever children.
P.S. And by the way, after this latest “sensational ” latest whine by zio-fascist and brain-damaged simpleton porkski, I have a simple request: Gay kaken oyfn yam!
Michael Ratner died last week at age 72, and it is a terrible loss felt deeply by his friends and family. Ratner was a tireless advocate for justice and he used his fine legal skills to that end, and only to that end. (He was a brilliant man and lawyer and could have been a millionaire many times over had he chosen a Wall Street path.)
Critically, Ratner did not take the “Progressive Except for Palestine” position of so many liberal Jews of his generation did. He was instrumental in the founding of the excellent blog, Mondweiss; the owner of that site, Philip Weiss, just posted a tribute to his beloved friend.
Weiss declares that it “is hard for anyone to say what his greatest accomplishment was, apart from his closeknit family and friendships. All the obits are struggling to pick one thing.” He continues:
Mona coming unhinged (while putting her bigotry on display – again). By the way that is 454 references to Mona on this thread. Speak about crap-flooding.
Jack Green ? russell payne
May 17 2016, 8:55 a.m.
Israel is a wonderful country that set up field hospitals in Haiti & Nepal to help those hurt by the earthquakes & to help those in the Philippines who were injured by the typhoon. Israeli advances in science, medicine & agriculture have helped billions of people all over the world.
? Reply
-Mona- ? Jack Green
May 17 2016, 11:21 a.m.
Adolph Hitler loved dogs.
? Reply
Mona
When you start off telling someone to “Fuck off” and then point out their ‘error’ you’ll receive shit right back. You are “the she-beast amongst the rocks ready to eat your eyeballs”.
Gator90 has told all-non Jews to STFU because he has the “birthright” to do so.
How Aryan can one get? (hence my camp guard dig).
That’s bullshit and Gator did no such thing. He was referencing the use and abuse of comparisons of Israel to Nazi Germany. And he told no one to STFU. He stated his view that Jews have the right to say that to gentiles on the subject of such comparisons. (He and I disagree about the acceptability of this comparison. )
You’ve been posting antisemitic shit here for months. Gator won’t reply to you, and I shouldn’t either. You are no better than the Zionist cretins here ranting about Palestinians as “animals” and etc.
So again: fuck off.
[“You are no better than the Zionist cretins here ranting about Palestinians as “animals” and etc.
So again: fuck off.”]
Mona, with all due respect and decency…I know how easy it is to start cursing (finger pointing at myself), but in reality you haven’t told any “zionist cretins” to “eff off”. Nuff has confided his personal truth via a family member. And so have you. We lose our power to reason esp. when we have an ‘axe to grind’ because of terrible acts that stay in our souls…esp. when no healing has come to those open wounds. Nuff like you and many here have given me more understanding about topics revealed here at TI. Peace to both of you… :)
ps…can we please stop with ‘name calling’? It doesn’t help a situation.
do you mean..
how goyish is one willing to be branded?
The arguments advanced on this thread have nothing to do with the Palestinians. The debate is over the legitimacy of the Jewish state, of Zionism itself. To accomplish the delegitimization of the Jewish state, the radical left must advance a narrative. Israel was a colonial project; Zionism is equivalent to racism; Zionists were fascists who collaborated with the Nazis; Israel is an apartheid state similar to apartheid South Africa. Only by associating Zionism and the Jewish state with the worst regimes of the twentieth century can the extremists hope to garner support for the BDS movement – a movement which has the intent of eliminating the one Jewish majority state in the world.
In most every argument by the fringe left, there is an attempt to deny the motivation which led to the Zionist movement. That is critical to the propaganda of activists like Omar Barghouti and below the line commentators like Mona (and numerous others). If Zionism is a colonial project, then Zionism was simply a mass transfer of people to exploit indigenous populations and claim new lands for the great empires. If the comparison is to South Africa, then Israel really is no different than that racist state which maintained racial segregation and minority rule by a set of racist laws. If Zionists collaborated with the Nazis, it wasn’t because these were desperate times for Jews, it was because they were simply fascists or Nazi sympathizers. None of the classic (extremists) criticisms of Israel allowed even the slightest acknowledgement of the centuries of antisemitism and anti -Jewish pogroms in Europe (predominantly) and in the greater Middle East which motivated the Zionists movement and ideology. Zionism first and foremost was driven by anti-Jewish animosity and self-determination.
The attempt to deny or ignore the motivation for Zionism is a critical point because that gives legitimacy to the Zionists movement. Regardless, the Holocaust vindicated the motivation for Jewish self-determination. The Holocaust was the single most powerful exoneration of the Zionist movement which was controversial among Arabs, westerners and Jews well before Israel won its independence. Nothing can change that simple fact.
Zionism is no friend of humanity.
Errata
I always, always acknowledge it when I make a factual error. Below I had written: “In 1958 [Vladimir Jabotisnky, the Second Father of Zionism] rejected Israel having a written constitution, and declared that instead ‘the national character of a state should be guaranteed by it’s having a certain [Jewish] majority.'”
I was actually reading a link to a collection of Jabotinsky quotes, and the one I used was included in a 1958 book. Jabotisky died in 1940.
So, Jabotinsky said nice things about any percentage of of indigenous Arabs who are not ethnically cleansed should have equal rights in Israel. As long as Jews were the “certain majority.” Which, the ethnic cleansing and subsequent apartheid in the refugee camps of Gaza and the West Bank accomplished as per his plan.
The foundation of his Zionism, and of the State of Israel, was and is ethno-religious supremacy of a guaranteed Jewish majority. Accomplished by ethnic cleansing and maintained today by apartheid and a brutal military occupation.
#BDS
Happy Birthday Israel: Pianist Mashes Up ‘Poker Face’ and ‘Hatikvah’
“LOS ANGELES — A classically-trained pianist, composer and piano teacher from Los Angeles has created a mash-up of Lady Gaga’s “Poker Face” and the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, in honor of the Jewish State’s 68th birthday on Wednesday, known as “Yom Ha’atzmaut” or Israeli Independence Day. Morris Rahbar, 34, who is of Iranian descent, told Breitbart News that he came upon the idea for the mashup while teaching a piano lesson several years ago. He said he was reviewing both songs with his student when he noticed similarities in both tunes, which led to him mashing them up. “But I never really had a reason to put this mashup out there until I saw a meme on Facebook of Lady Gaga’s visit to Israel in 2014,” he said, where she put on a show for 20,000-plus people.
Rahbar recalled, “She told the crowd, ‘you are strong, you are brave, you are confident, and I f*cking love you, Israel,’ and the link finally came together… .
Lady Gaga is among a growing number of megastars who have resisted boycott efforts and who support the Jewish state, including Jennifer Lopez, who is planning to perform in Israel this summer.”
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/05/12/israel-piano-mashup-of-lady-gagas-poker-face-and-israeli-national-anthem/
Yup, and Elton John, Frank Sinatra, Julio Iglesias, Black Sabbath, and Rod Stewart, and some others, all played Sun City during the boycott campaign against Apartheid South Africa. They were pilloried for it by decent people; after the apartheid regime collapsed most artists who had played Sun City very much didn’t want to talk about it.
In any event, we still made a pariah state out of South Africa, and we’re doing it to apartheid Israel as well. As with all other such regimes, it will collapse.
#BDS
Palestinian, Nada Elia, celebrates the growing success of BDS and the world-wide support of justice for Palestinians that is finally beginning to take hold even in Israel’s worst enabler, the United States:
Zionists can try to silence Omar Barghouti via travel restrictions, they can, as they are, work very hard to criminalize and prohibit BDS advocacy in Western actions, including prohibiting it on U.S. campuses. They won’t succeed in ending this movement, in large part because: Internet.
Jayz writes:
“Nothing has changed!
No ideology, worthy of leading and benefiting humanity, should preach hatred, bigotry or violence. Ideological zealots imagine that reaching their goal entitles them to any method including intimidation, humiliation, cruelty, lies, or violence as part of their practice.
No individual, religion, or political entity has the right to kill. Yet, the anti-human zealots, in the name of their book, whatever that is, advance an ideology of killing and hate – all in the name of purity; being superior to the other. They then wonder why their ideology of hate is being resisted.
The hatemongers have nothing to say, no evidence to back their positions, no argument to support their hateful views. That is why they yell loud – and louder – all in the name of their book of values. The one book of values to which they practice an exclusive dominion.
Beware of the man with one book! (St. Thomas Aquinas)”
Absolutely right.
That’s what the modern left fascists, this hate speech outlet included, are: Apologists for Islamism, propagators of of lies and suppressors of dissent. That’s their one book of “values.”
Lies and deception can only exist if unchallenged. This is why it is existential for them to continue to suppress dissent by all means. On this site, it means vicious gang-bang ad hominem attacks on a messenger to distract from the message. If that fails, the gang cries foul to their little Duce who wipes the “offending” message and bans the user. It is interesting to note that the outrageous bigotry that is sometimes acknowledged even by the gang members themselves, nonetheless stays on prominently.
The Nazis have lost the battle for Berlin, but the movement itself has survived and re-branded itself under the auspices of “liberalism.”
Readers, this person is a vicious, hate-filled cretin who has harmed me in real life. Please see my fuller explanation of his behavior, and the multiple troll accounts he runs, here.
I am not writing to, or about, the groups you are referencing.
You wrote, “Absolutely right”! If you indeed accept the essence of what is stated, then you must accept peaceful coexistence, on an equal plane, without judgement, without exception, and without reservation.
However, your messages, in tenor and context, appear to exude hate for large classes of people while demanding exceptions for others. How is that consistent?
Gator
Sad is putting it mildly. Ari Shavit,
as I described here, uses words like “damned” to accept responsibility for the immoral actions Zionists committed against Palestinians, the British and fellow Jews who had “wrong” ideas about Zionism (some rejected nationalism and wanted to live equally and in peace with the indigenous Arabs). But he is, commendably, unflinching about establishing a truthful record.Honest people can only either do what Shavit does — to say: “Yes, we behaved like monsters to found this country, but I will stand by those who did it” — or do as you, Gator, have done and reject political Zionism.
I imagine you agree with me, tho, that the Holy Land should always have been a place where Jews could immigrate to; that as a spiritual and cultural center for Jewish people it’s a proper place. If the indigenous Arabs had objected to the mere presence of Jews in that land, who respected the equal rights of Arabs, we’d be having a very different conversation. Then the onus would be on the Arabs.
Ha! I’ve never been able to figure out the strike command, and somehow I did it inadvertently! Anyway, please ignore the strike-through, and Gator is responding to my documentation of Israeli, Ari Shavit’s, book on the atrocities that were committed to found his country, Israel.
(Commenting while insufficiently caffeinated is dangerous.)
Mona writes:
“……..He [Ari Shavit] admits that Zionists committed all the horrors I have documented throughout this thread……”
Shavit writes in his book, “My Promised Land” (Mona’s link):
“………“Bulldozers razed Palestinian villages, warrants confiscated Palestinian land, laws revoked Palestinians’ citizenship and annulled their homeland.” Shavit’s narrative of the massacre and expulsion of the Arabs of Lydda by Israeli forces in the war of 1948 is a sickening tour de force……”
Shavit is a “liberal” Jew. No one has ever said that the expulsion of 750,000 people from their homes was right, or just. It was a brutal act by Jews fighting (literally) for independence – and survival. As Bennie Morris documented, the expulsion was a military necessity – but not a part of a grand scheme as has been suggested by many including Mona.
Shavit is a Zionist and he writes (Mona’s link):
“…….“Zionism’s mission,” as Shavit correctly describes it, was to rescue the Jews from destruction in exile……”
As Mona has also lied about: Jewish Nationalism did not supersede the concept of a safe haven for Jews. They went hand in hand.
Readers: Again, one cannot believe anything Craig writes, including abut me. His definition of “lie” is a fact he dislikes. In point of fact, Zionists absolutely did prioritize nationalism over saving German Jewish lives.
American Jews were outraged and angry that Zionist Jews undermined the boycott of Nazi Germany. But Nazi Germany was willing to facilitate the Zionist project in exchange for, among other things, trade with Jewish-Palestinian business — Nazis didn’t run out of oranges.
Interesting Huffington Post Article: The Phobia of Being Called Islamophobic
I can’t believe it slipped through a radical journalism filter.
“As of this writing, the National September 11 Memorial Museum still hasn’t caved in. But the pressure is building, and it feels very familiar.
The problem is a seven-minute film being shown at the soon-to-open museum called The Rise of Al Qaeda. Narrated by NBC’s Brian Williams, it uses words like “Islamist,” “Islamic,” and “jihad” in reference to the 9/11 hijackers and their motives.
Some Muslim groups, and others like the Interfaith Center of New York, want the film edited to remove those terms. They don’t want the public to think that Islamism or jihad had anything to do with Al Qaeda or the 9/11 attacks, because that could foster “Islamophobia.” We’ve so been down this road before.. . In addition to calling out prejudice against Muslims (a people), the term “Islamophobia” seeks to shield Islam itself (an ideology) from criticism. It’s as if every time you said smoking was a filthy habit, you were perceived to be calling all smokers filthy people. Human beings have rights and are entitled to respect. But when did we start extending those rights to ideas, books, and beliefs? You’d think the difference would be clear, but it isn’t. The ploy has worked over and over again, and now everyone seems petrified of being tagged with this label.
The phobia of being called “Islamophobic” is on the rise — and it’s becoming much more rampant, powerful, and dangerous than Islamophobia itself.”
The article talks about the Greenwald syndrom – “the phenomenon of Western liberals, in a supposed show of tolerance, embracing an apologist stance in favor of the intolerant”
And finally, they quote Sam Harris:
There is no such thing as ‘Islamophobia.’ This is a term of propaganda designed to protect Islam from the forces of secularism by conflating all criticism of it with racism and xenophobia. And it is doing its job, because people like you have been taken in by it.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/the-phobia-of-being-calle_b_5215218.html
It’s interesting that a liberal media outlet like the Huffington Post provides an alternative viewpoint. The idea that there might actually be competing viewpoints is completely foreign to the Intercept. The Intercept practices the worst variations of advocacy journalism in support of their extreme left wing agenda.
Mona writes mistakenly about Jobitinsky :
“…….In 1958 he rejected Israel having a written constitution, and declared that instead “the national character of a state should be guaranteed by it’s having a certain [Jewish] majority.”…….he said nice things about how the 20% of indigenous Arabs who were not ethnically cleansed should have equal rights in Israel. As long as Jews were the “certain majority.”…….”
Duh. Zionism was motivated by antisemitism. One of the principle ideas behind the Jewish immigration into Palestine – especially in the face of anti-Jewish pogroms (principally in eastern Europe) – was the creation of a safe haven for Jews. Jews had lived as second class citizens subject to anti-Jewish violence at times in the Arab Middle East for over a thousand years. The Arabs looked down on Jews*. This could only happen in a Jewish majority state. Nothing surprising or new with Mona’s “shocking” post.
* Jews were not the only minority to face discrimination in the Middle East. All minorities and women were subject to racism, bigotry, misogyny and violence including Shia Muslims.
Nothing has changed!
No ideology, worthy of leading and benefiting humanity, should preach hatred, bigotry or violence. Ideological zealots imagine that reaching their goal entitles them to any method including intimidation, humiliation, cruelty, lies, or violence as part of their practice.
No individual, religion, or political entity has the right to kill. Yet, the anti-human zealots, in the name of their book, whatever that is, advance an ideology of killing and hate – all in the name of purity; being superior to the other. They then wonder why their ideology of hate is being resisted.
The hatemongers have nothing to say, no evidence to back their positions, no argument to support their hateful views. That is why they yell loud – and louder – all in the name of their book of values. The one book of values to which they practice an exclusive dominion.
Beware of the man with one book! (St. Thomas Aquinas)
“…….No individual, religion, or political entity has the right to kill. Yet, the anti-human zealots, in the name of their book, whatever that is, advance an ideology of killing and hate – all in the name of purity; being superior to the other. They then wonder why their ideology of hate is being resisted……”
That is you making up your own definition of Zionism – and at the same time – denying what drove the Zionist movement. This is one of the principle differences between liberalism and the extreme left. Liberals recognize and support multiculturalism i.e., ethnic or religious-based states. The radical left singles out Israel as a “racist, supremacist” ideology while ignoring similar ethnic or religious-based states. The fringe left is a racist, fascist brand of extreme anti-racist ideology directed only at the Jewish state.
Your linked my statement against anti-humanism with Zionism. Why did you do that?
There are many other racist states – what about them? Is that a “well, others do it too” excuse? Let me repeat: No ideology, worthy of leading and benefiting humanity, should preach hatred, bigotry or violence.
You seem to have difficulty with this universal concept.
“……No ideology…..Yet, the anti-human zealots, in the name of their book, whatever that is, advance an ideology of killing and hate – all in the name of purity; being superior to the other. …..”
First of all, there is nothing inherently (ethno-) supremacists about a Jewish state. There is nothing about Zionism that advances hate and killing. This is language used by the radical left to delegitimize the Jewish state. More importantly, it is used to attempt to deny the very real reasons which drove the “ideology” of the Zionist movement.
Jewish immigration to Palestine began in earnest as a response to the Russian anti-Jewish pogrom from 1881-1884. Tens of thousands of Jews were murdered in Russia in the 1920s. Zionism was a response to centuries of anti-Jewish racism – and was completely vindicated by the Holocaust. This is undeniable. Calling Zionism equivalent to racism, supremacism (purity) or to South Africa – and calling Zionism a colonialist project are nothing more than attempts to deny Jewish history.
You did not answer the question. Why did you create a linkage that was not in my message?
I take it that you have difficulty accepting the universality of the statement I made, without reservation, in all circumstances, and for all people?
Mona (to “readers”:
“…….Readers: Nothing Craig posts can be trusted. Vladimir Jabotinsky wrote VERY different things at different times. Almost all of his paeans to democracy and equal rights were written after the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arabs that he explicitly advocated prior thereto, and which in fact occurred……In 1958 he rejected Israel having a written constitution, and declared that instead “the national character of a state should be guaranteed by it’s having a certain [Jewish] majority.”…..”
Only Jobitinsky died in 1940 well before the ethnic cleansing took place.
Mona writes
“………In conclusion, this information is taken directly from the source notes at the Wikipedia article Craig so selectively quoted. Do not trust him to tell the truth…….”
Yet the trusted Mona continued Jobitinsky’s biography well after his death……
the US. should stop worrying about Russia and cut all aid to Israel and squash it like the hateful insect it has become.
Israel is a wonderful country that set up field hospitals in Haiti & Nepal to help those hurt by the earthquakes & to help those in the Philippines who were injured by the typhoon. Israeli advances in science, medicine & agriculture have helped billions of people all over the world.
Adolph Hitler loved dogs.
And Zionism.
“If need be, I’ll stand by the damned.”
Israeli journalist, Ari Shavit, is one of the very few basically honest Zionists writing today. He admits that Zionists committed all the horrors I have documented throughout this thread. His book, My Promised Land, was reviewed in the New York Times:
Shavit concedes all the horrific atrocities and statements made by Zionists in pre-Israel Palestine (many of which I’ve documented below), and that they ultimately committed abominable ethnic cleansing. He’s honest about the atrocities, the Zionist terrorism, and all of it.
Most fascinating is that Shavit offers a dark embrace of culpability and solidarity with the criminals:
Of course, Shavit does not need Israel to enable himself or his children to live. Millions of Jews live happy, safe and productive lives in the United States. But at least he’s completely owning the crimes committed for his “Promised Land.”
Ulike the ferocious Zionists online, including in these comments, Shavit isn’t a liar and propagandist spewing denial, whataboutery or vicious anti-Muslim bigotry. He simply wants the world — and the Palestinians — to accept that he must accept it all and then he must further say: “Even so.”
Different people have different capacities for sadness. Shavit is willing to be sadder than I am.
I think you mean he listens to his conscience as opposed to drinking it away …
You would have made a good camp guard.
Fuck off, nuff. You totally failed to understand Gator’s comment. And you are an antisemite.
Your cunt stinks.
Now, that is disappointing, nuf. I’ve come to tolerate your antisemitism, even to find it sort of retro-cute, but misogyny is never cute. I’ve no idea how old you are, but it’s never too late to try to grow up.
Anti-semites usually struggle to answer simple quiz questions. Example:
QUIZ:
Arab states and Muslim states are acceptable yet the Jewish state is “RACIST/UNACCEPTABLE” because:
1) I’m an anti-semite
2) Actually, if Muslim and Arab state are OK, obviously the Jewish state is OK too.
Watch who replies to this yet is unable to give a simple answer. Enjoy!
So, your theory is that the entire spectrum of Jews, Christians, and Muslims, and the human rights activists are upset about the ‘Jewishness ‘ of the Israeli regime, and not the Apartheid nature of it. Well, I guess you could also posit a similar argument that it was the ‘Germaness’ of the Third Reich that upset people. But both arguments make the argument that North America is nothing but dirt resting on the back of a turtle seem convincing by comparison.
Correction:
The Zio window licker’s rehashed hasbara hack prose isn’t a “theory”, Richard.
Quiz:
Israel has over 1.3 million Arab citizens. The Arab states that surround Israel have erased their Jewish citizens to almost zero. So, which side is guilty of true “ethnic cleansing?”:
1) Israel, but I am only saying that because I’m a mentally-ill dishonest anti-semite
2) The Arab states that have almost zero Jews left, obviously.
Answer:
3) Zios are filthy anti-Semites and psychotic window lickers, because Zionism destroyed their brains.
Quiz:
Muslim states are acceptable and Arab states are acceptable yet a Jewish state is “RACIST/UNACCEPTABLE” because:
1) I’m an anti-semite
2) Actually, if Muslim and Arab state are OK, obviously a Jewish state is OK too.
You and all your alter egos here are a hoot. Nothing you do to try to destroy all the rich documentation in this long thread is going to keep people from seeing it. I will always, always make sure readers are advised to scroll past all of your troll accounts: “Steve,” “herson” and “Jack Green.” And alert readers to the vibrant and intelligent posts and discussions found below.
Steve
This is an extreme left wing site which has its share of bigots. Mona is the worst of the lot. She called Adolph Eichmann a Zionist and she defended Livingston’s suggestion that Hitler supported Zionism. These were the biggest mass murderers in historic times. That gives you a fairly good idea of the richness of the documentation.
“
Herrsommer,
Adolph and Craig 4Ever!!11111
Thanks, and Good Luck.
Correction:
Answer:
3) Zios are filthy anti-Semites and psychotic window lickers, because Zionism destroyed their brains.
Another post the hasbara troll does not want you to see, is documentation that the Founding Father of political Zionism explicitly demanded the ethnic cleansing of the Arab population of Palestine, which his followers then committed some 25 years later when Israel was founded.
Israel is less than 1% of the Middle East.
It is the world’s only Jewish-majority state, next to 20 Arab states and 50 Muslim countries.
Israel is so tiny you can barely see it on a map.
And the vast majority of citizens of Israel were refugees, from other parts of the Middle East, from other parts of Israel/Palestine, and elsewhere.
Israel is a tiny little state, yet the most democratic state in that region BY FAR.
Yet there are some mentally ill people in this world who spend literally 12-18 hours a day of their “life” devoting all their energy into trying to convince other people that erasing/destroying the world’s only Jewish state is 1) Not anti-semitic (2) Peaceful and for justice.
Nazis tried to destroy Jews.
And now in 2016, “Nazis” in another form try to destroy the world’s only Jewish state.
Even if true (doubtful), this constitutes the fallacy of relative privation and whataboutery. Israel is a violent, ethno-religious supremacist state and Westerners have enormous complicity in this reality. You know this, and didn’t even try to rebut the overwhelming evidence of America’s shameful assistance in Israel’s ethnic cleansing and apartheid.
Fixed link.
In which “Steve” engages is the rabid Zionist’s constant fallacy: Whataboutery. Even if his vacuous claim were true (it’s not) it doesn’t address my documentation of the pervasive ethno-religious, segregationist mentality of Jews in Israel.
Why the BDS movement is anti-semitic:
– The BDS movement accepts Muslim states, Arab states and a Palestinian state, yet hatefully rejects a Jewish state.
– It accepts Muslim nationalism, Arab nationalism and Palestinian nationalism, yet rejects Jewish nationalism.
– It accepts that Muslim-majority states identify as Muslim, that Arab-majority states identity as Arab, yet it DEMONIZES the world’s one tiny Jewish-majority state for identifying as Jewish.
– The BDS movement rejects the Jewish right to self-determination, while promoting Arab self-determination, Muslim self-determination, Palestinian non-Jewish self-determination, etc.
– The BDS movement singles the Jewish people out using standards they intentionally do not apply to any other groups.
– The BDS movement promotes hate of Israel’s very existence, promotes hate of every single thing Israel does to protect itself, promotes hate of Israelis as a nationality, and promotes bigotry and discrimination against Israeli universities, musicians, artists, etc. No other universities, artists, etc in the world are deemed guilty of whatever wrong their country may do. Only Israeli Jews are singled out for this sort of hate.
All of this is the very definition of anti-semitism.
Every nasty adjective spewed by mentally-ill jihad-supporters about Israel applies a thousand times more accurately to the states and cultures in the Arab states next to Israel.
This site has been heavily afflicted with hasbara trolls, likely all one person using many accounts. He/they have been banned upwards of 10 times for stalking people/real-life harassment, gross anti-Muslim bigotry, copyright violations and crapflooding the comments with huge quantities of drivel.
In his/their latest iteration he/they go by: “herson,” “Steve,” and “Jack Green.” Do scroll right on past these nuisances.
For the readers’ convenience, I’ve put together a compendium of links to some of my substantive posts in the first half of this thread — which usually include documentation — comments which many readers find useful and informative.
The world’s only Jewish state is not going to commit suicide to make Islamists, jihadists and far-left anti-semites happy. Sorry.
Even if those Islamists, jihadists and far-left anti-semites post lots and lots of messages on the Internet.
Imagine how pathetic and mentally ill some goose-stepping SS jihadist wannabe is to waste their entire life pushing buttons on a machine trying to convince people that the world’s only Jewish state should be destroyed.
What a way to go through life.
Quiz for BDS supporters:
1) Why is a Jewish state racist/evil yet Muslim states acceptable?
A) Because you’re an anti-semite.
2) If Israel still has 1.5 million Arab citizens, while the Arab states that surround Israel have erased their Jewish populations to almost zero, who is guilty of ethnic cleansing?
A) The Arab states, obviously, unless you’re a dishonest anti-semite.
3) Why are Arab-majority states allowed to be Arab, Muslim-majority states allowed to be Muslim, yet the world’s one tiny Jewish-majority state not allowed to be Jewish?
A) Because… anti-semitic hypocrite.
Riddle: What’s the difference between Jews and Zios?
Answer: Jews go to Pornhub when they want to play with themselves.
It’s 2016, and Israel exists. And will continue to defend itself, and will continue exist as a Jewish state next to 20 Arab states and 50 Muslim states. This won’t change, no matter how many mentally-ill, obsessed anti-semites waste their miserable, pathetic lives spending 18 hours a day trying to demonize the Jewish state’s very existence. While the Muslim states that surround Israel destroy themselves via jihadist civil war, etc.
“
LMAO…Yea, porkski, keep telling yourself that, you mentally-ill obsesssive-compulsive Zio anti-semite, and keep wasting your miserable, pathetic life, by spending 18 hours a day trying to demonize the Palestinian peoples very existence.
Some good news for Jews/Israel is that it’s quite clear that 99% of the people trying to destroy us are mentally insane. As exhibited by most comment sections, and by the dishonesty of anti-Israel activists in their quest to destroy Israel.
Some bad news for Zios/”israel” is that it’s quite clear that Zionism destroys brains. As exhibited by most comment sections, and by the mindless incoherent stream of gibberish continually being spewed by the brain damaged members of the cult of zion in their quest to destroy the Palestinians.
One could post many dozens of documented instances of prominent Israeli Jews expressing horror at the “demographic threat” of too many Arabs in too many “Jew-only” places. This is only one of a universe of examples:
This segregationist, racist, ethno-supremacist mentality permeates Israel. If anyone suggest this is only one example, or that I am overstating the matter, I can and will post a blizzard of additional examples as new, standalone posts over the course of the next day.
This segregationist, racist, ethno-supremacist mentality permeates 20 Arab states and 50 Muslim countries.
BDS is just more anti-semitic trash from radical-left extremists who don’t want peace between Israel and Palestinians, they want Israel eliminated and the world’s only Jewish state erased and turned into yet another Islamic state which would put millions of Jews in mortal danger.
1) Israel has to hand land that it won defensively, won from countries that were using it specifically to attack Israel, to people who still want to destroy Israel. And if Israel doesn’t do this, Israel is being mean.
2) Palestinians get to reject peace and elect Hamas terrorists as their leaders, yet Israel should be fully blamed for lack of peace, even though the people who surround Israel openly reject peace with Jews/Israel.
3) Jews having a state is apparently ‘racist,’ but Muslims having 50 countries and Arabs having 20 countries is somehow not racist.
4) Jewish nationalism is ‘racist’ yet somehow Palestinian nationalism is great, Arab nationalism is great, and Muslim nationalism is great.
5) There are ‘NO JEWS ALLOWED” Arab-only neighborhoods across the West Bank, Gaza, also in most of that entire region. To pro-BDS people, ‘NO JEWS ALLOWED’ Arab-only neighborhoods are acceptable, yet Jewish neighborhoods in the West Bank (which require army protection so Arabs don’t murder those Jews) are unacceptable.
6) Pro-BDS people place NO responsibility on anyone other than Israel to make peace. The people who surround Israel can try to murder as many Jews as they want, can try to kill as many Israelis as they want, Palestinians get to elect Hamas terrorists as their leaders, ISIS gets to take over Syria, Islamic Jihad get to continue to try to destroy Israel, all of this is OK to pro-BDS people. They just want Israel to commit suicide, ‘for peace.’ Why is this? Because 99% of pro-BDS people just want Israel erased/destroyed. Because BDS is a hate movement, not a peace or justice movement.
7) Bigotry from BDS against Israel’s very existence is peaceful, somehow. Apparently, in BDS land, helping Muslims destroy the only Jewish state is honorable. In the world of BDS, bigotry and discrimination against Israeli professors, scientists, musicians, artists, etc. is acceptable, yet bigotry against everyone else in the world is frowned upon. Even when Israel is bigoted against people who are trying to destroy Israel, apparently that’s wrong too. To BDS supporters, the only acceptable hate/bigotry in the entire world is the hate/bigotry directed at the tiny 1% of the Middle East that is Israel.
8) Bigotry from this activist against Israelis is good, yet if Israel discriminates against him in response then somehow Israel is being mean.
9) Hardcore discrimination against Israeli artists, universities, culture, politicians, businesses, etc. is acceptable, yet Israel protecting itself is bad and evil. Somehow, to pro-Palestinian activists and BDS supporters, the only universities in the world that are guilty of what their government does are Israeli universities. All the other universities across the entire world are magically innocent of what their government does.
10) BDS actively blacklisting Israelis is fine, yet if Israel blacklists the people responsible than Israel is being mean.
“Steve” is one of several accounts run by the same vicious hasbara troll. He posts tons of vacuous drivel here so readers will not make it down to postslike this.
“Steve” would also prefer that you not make it down to the post documenting an Israeli General just having compared Israel to Nazi Germany, and an Israeli journalist agreeing with him and stating why this is so.
Another quirk of the anti-racist racist radical left is the lack of acknowledgement that 800,000 Jews were expelled or intimidated into leaving the greater Middle East after the creation of Israel. These Jews had lived in their respective communities for thousands of years. There are far more Arabs living in Israel today than Jews living in the greater Middle East.
The reason that the fringe left ignores the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Middle East is because collective punishment of Jews (world-wide) is warranted because of the creation of Israel. Arabs are always the victims. Jews are always the oppressors.
Run, and watch this. This video is under 3 minutes and is fucking outstanding. It’s journalist Mehdi Hasan at Al Jazeera eviscerating Benjamin Netnyahu’s claim that Palestinians praise their terrorists and name “public squares after them.” Bibi then pauses for effect, and says: “We don’t.” Just watch one of the best smackdowns you will ever see.
In the post below, I showed once again that you lied that the “Zionists [Jews] had almost from the outset intended to commit ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arabs”.
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
There are so many lies going on this thread that it is really hard to keep up. Just about every document or quote by Mona can be easily challenged or refuted which is the real reason she has no desire to respond to me. Here is another lie by Mona.
“……The Zionists had almost from the outset intended to commit ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arabs in order to steal their land. And they did so, quite horrifically……”
You cannot change history because you don’t like the truth Mona. First of all, as I recall, the Jews accepted the partition plan within the designated borders proposed by the UN. The Arabs rejected the proposal with violence. Bennie Morris writes in his historic review of the 1948 Israel war of Independence initiated by the Palestinians (2008 copyright):
“………But the Haganah had little choice. With the Arab world loudly threatening and seemingly mobilizing for invasion, the Yishuv’s political and military leaders understood that they would first have to crush the Palestinian militias in the main towns and along the main roads and the countries borders if they were to stand a chance beating off the invading armies. And there was an ineluctable time frame. The Palestinians would have to be defeated in the six weeks remaining before the British departure, scheduled for 15 May….”…the Haganah switched to the offensive in early April, also simply, because it could.For four months under continuous provocation and attack, the Yishuv largely held itself in check, initially in the hopes that the disturbances would blow over,and later, in deference to international, particularly British sensibilities………”
“……Plan D has given rise over the decades to a minor historiographic controversy, with Palestinian and pro Palestinian historians charging that it was Haganah’s master plan for the expulsion of the country’s Arabs. But a cursory examination of the actual text leads to a different conclusion. The plan calls for securing the emergency state’s territory and borders and the lines of communication between the Jewish centers of population and the border areas…….The Haganah’s “operational goals” would be “to defend” [the state] against …..invasion, assure “free Jewish movement”, deny the enemy forward bases, apply economic pressure to end enemy actions, limit the enemy’s ability to wage guerrilla war, and gain control of former Mandate government installations and services in the new state’s territory……”
Conclusions:
1. So there was no master plan to ethnically cleans the Arab population. In fact, all out war was avoided for four months.
2. The expulsion of the Arabs occurred fully four months after the Palestinian Arabs and Arab Militia initiated the violence. The Jews had hoped that the “disturbances would blow over” according to Morris.
3. Jobitinsky had no say in the war of independence since he died in 1940.
According to Wikipedia:
“…….According to the historian Benny Morris, documents show that Jabotinsky favored the idea of the transfer of Arab populations if required for establishing a (still-proposed) Jewish state.[23] Jabotinsky’s other writings state, “We do not want to eject even one Arab from either the left or the right bank of the Jordan River. We want them to prosper both economically and culturally. We envision the regime of Jewish Palestine [Eretz Israel ha-Ivri] as follows: most of the population will be Jewish, but equal rights for all Arab citizens will not only be guaranteed, they will also be fulfilled.”[16] Jabotinsky was convinced that there was no way for the Jews to regain any part of Palestine without opposition from the Arabs. In 1934, he wrote a draft constitution for the Jewish state which declared that Arabs would be on an equal footing with their Jewish counterparts “throughout all sectors of the country’s public life.” The two communities would share the state’s duties, both military and civil service, and enjoy its prerogatives. Jabotinsky proposed that Hebrew and Arabic should enjoy equal status, and that “in every cabinet where the prime minister is a Jew, the vice-premiership shall be offered to an Arab and vice versa.”[24]……”
While Jobitinsky was a right wing Zionists, Wikipedia doesn’t quite portray him the same way as Mona – at least according to his writings.
Readers: Nothing Craig posts can be trusted. Vladimir Jabotinsky wrote VERY different things at different times. Almost all of his paeans to democracy and equal rights were written after the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arabs that he explicitly advocated prior thereto, and which in fact occurred.
In 1958 he rejected Israel having a written constitution, and declared that instead “the national character of a state should be guaranteed by it’s having a certain [Jewish] majority.”
Sure, he said nice things about how the 20% of indigenous Arabs who were not ethnically cleansed should have equal rights in Israel. As long as Jews were the “certain majority.” Which, the ethnic cleansing and apartheid in the refugee camps of Gaza and the West Bank accomplished as per his plan.
The foundation of his Zionism, and of the State of Israel, was and is ethno-religious supremacy of a guaranteed Jewish majority. Accomplished by ethnic cleansing.
In conclusion, this information is taken directly from the source notes at the Wikipedia article Craig so selectively quoted. Do not trust him to tell the truth.
Time to tend to evening chores, but first:
Herut, of course, was the predecessor of Likud, of which Begin was founder and which Netanyahu chairs today.
Thanks Mona. And still the vile twit doesn’t get it:
There’s no inference. His criticism of others for doing what can be readily ascribed to him doesn’t imply he’s an idiot if not a hypocrite; it makes him an idiot if not a hypocrite.
Saying something similar to what a white supremacist once said doesn’t automatically make him a racist any more than saying something a Pope once said could make him a Catholic. But that’s the gist of his really stupid argument, and it’s one easily thrown right back at him. He just doesn’t get it.
No Indigenous Arab would have been displaced if indigenous Arabs had not been murdering innocent Jews.
The colonizing Jews of Europe were very frequently not “innocent.” But that’s irrelevant — it didn’t matter what the Arabs did or didn’t do. The Zionists had almost from the outset intended to commit ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Arabs in order to steal their land. And they did so, quite horrifically.
So horrifically that Albert Einstein and many other fine Jewish people denounced their brethren who committed the atrocities. Israel, of course, would elect two of these murderous criminals to be Prime Minister. Israel names streets after Zionist terrorists, lots of streets.
~Albert Einstein, address to the National Labor Committee for Palestine, in New York, on April 17, 1938, republished by Einstein after the creation of the State of Israel
Einstein, Hannah Arendt, and Judah Magnes — the first president of Hebrew University in Jerusalemn. Many very bright Jews with superb moral compasses entirely foresaw that political Zionism would, as Max Blumenthal has put, “kill the Jewish soul.”
Evidence for that tragic truth is littered all over this site’s comment section whenever the topic involves Israel.
Exactly, Mona. They were, as we can now see so clearly, prophets.
The damage that extremist Zionism has done to the spirit of Judaism is simply immeasurable.
Herzl said that if Arabs wouldn’t sell, Jews should skip him & try the next Arab.
He never said that Jews should force Arabs to sell.
Herzl never said that Jews should raise an army to expel Arabs.
No Indigenous Arab would have been displaced if indigenous Arabs had not been murdering innocent Jews.
My uncle was stationed in Tel Aviv, Palestine, 1946. He witnessed 2 fellow RAF sergeants hanged from lampposts by Jews. Not Arabs but Jews.
One year after Britain liberated camps, Jews repaid them with murder and bombings.
Good that you mentioned this.
Many dont or pretend not to see what is going on in the zion mind as a continuity of the track that was laid way back then. Most people, being powerless in the US, eat sleep work a job and die without really being able to understand the nature of power of destiny, and believe that voting is choosing.
They do not see that the terrorist zionist acts of the early 1900’s through today are related. It is that continuity that zionist propaganda seeks to break.
(i figure you know this but i menion it in case unaware newcomers read here or, as it may get picked up in google.)
We Americans also killed British soldiers in the late eighteenth century.
I apologize.
Britain prevented Jews who were fleeing the Nazis from escaping to Palestine. The UK imprisoned Jews in Cyprus until 1949.
One of the common instructions given by some Sufi teachers to their students is to work on transforming their inner self to the point where it loves those who are their enemies.
There are techniques employed by many mystical paths that have been proven throughout human history to be quite effective.
It’s very hard to do, but it’s not impossible, and I’m aware of many who have been able to get to that level in their self development.
At that level, there is no otherness.
Real peace will come from inner awakening and development, not from violent actions or political negotiations, certainly not when all sides are acting like 11 year olds, blaming the other.
People of higher consciousness vie for goodness and sharing.
This theory may become true when we are at the Star treck Enterprise age. Here, unfortunately, we are facing and taking apart the Quatrocento of fascism ideology (I mean the regressive left ) that is spreading like cancer with its main goal – destruction of sovereingty.
“. . . destruction of sovereingty.”
Sovereignty, as used here, actually means apartheid, justified by imagined ethnic superiority. All decent people should fervently hope that such a perversion of the notion of sovereignty is destroyed as soon as possible.
And some Zionists are quite brazen about that. A while back I watched the documentary, The Gatekeepers, in which the Israeli director interviews six former directors of Israels domestic intelligence agency — their FBI.
At one point one of these men discusses the theories of the iconic military strategist, Carl von Clausewitz. To my utter astonishment, this Zionist Jew takes a break from the discussion to inform his interviewer, in total seriousness, that Clausewitz “was clever, even though he wasn’t a Jew.”
Wow. Not merely brazen, but breathtakingly tone deaf and clumsy, as well.
I keep thinking that the evil clowns who visit their nastiness upon us, here, cannot really be hasbara-trained, for, surely, the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs must be aware of the blowback created by such ill-informed and ham-fisted attacks. But, if former Shin Bet chiefs are so clueless, maybe we shouldn’t expect more subtlety from the rank and file cyber-volunteers.
I think they are old-hands mostly, except the obvious kinder-kid, Jonah, and they are not used to being hit with hard facts. Israel’s apartheid position is really quite fragile and the more they defend it the more we poke holes in it.
For too long people just felt sorry for Israel but now that sorrow is all but dried up.
Revelation of Zionist collaboration with the Nazis is not something you explain away. The slaughter in Gaza 2014 is sooo like Nazi reprisal killings it gives me the chills.
BDS Tell your friends.
One of their online “hasbara manuals” has separate instructions on how to handle well-informed people who are sophisticated in argumentation. Transparent propaganda techniques are not advised to be used on such an audience.
This one didn’t get the memo.
“Sovereignty means apartheid” Only in your mother ship Borg, er Soros central command center.
“Sovereignty” is a description for a status of relationships. the DPRK and possibly Venezuela, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Iran are the only sovereign nations on the planet.
But your reference to vulnerability is not a sovereignty issue just as clearly as a man who beats his wife is not a matter of privacy or sovereignty. IT IS A MATTER OF BELONGING.
Jesus instructed how people should treat each other as the foundation for belonging together. Greedy thieving types reject this and strive for domination. That relationship illness goes thru several phases until, at the end, it fails simply because new generations of people do not want to inherit or abide by an unnatural state of relationships.
Get off my planet.
Mona spits out another bigoted lie: “By definition, those (western liberal democracies) do not enforce a mandatory ethnic majority.”
By which definition? Then one you keep under your bed close to a bunny? Although, I’d say you probably keep a Greenwald dummy there (just joking).
The definition simply does not include anything like this and when it comes to immigration policy, it is totally discretionary and within the rights of a Sovereign.
Now, let’s see. Austria, which is undoubtedly Western Liberal Democracy, has the same population as Israel – about 8.5 million. I wonder what citizens of Austria would say if they were mandated to except 4 millions of Jordanians, 5 millions of Palestinians and 4 millions of Syrians? They are within their sovereign right to say a resounding No. And rest assured had there been such a mandate, Austria would quit EU in a day… or two.
Austria is not a colonial government holding an indigenous ethnic group under military occupation in immediately adjacent territories where, as Moshe Dayan said, they gaze upon the stolen and plundered cities and villages of their forebears.
And please, this isn’t about “immigration.” It’s about ethnic cleansing, apartheid and Israel’s ethno-religious supremacy.
Would you really like me to go gather the myriad Zionist Israelis who openly fret about the “demographic threat” of the Palestinian Arabs on which it did bestow citizenship — the 20% it did not ethnically cleanse, and their “worryingly” high birthrate?
Can you site me any other liberal Western democracies, in the period after WWII, that maintain an indigenous population under military occupation without citizenship rights, and which has adopted laws and policies to counter it’s minority population’s “demographic threat” to the officially preferred majority?
Of course you cannot do that. And you must be annoyed that Jonah finally gave me the actual Zionist answer to why BDS constitutes “antisemitism” — BDS realizing it’s 3 planks would be a “demographic threat” to Israels’ formal ethno-religious supremacy.
Israel, as currently constituted, is a “modern Western democracy,” to the same degree that Apartheid South Africa was.
What laws and policies has Israel adopted to counter it’s minority population’s “demographic threat” to the officially preferred majority?
Here is just one policy intended to control the “demographic threat:”
The purpose is preventing terrorism.
“Colonialism” Even if it were true, which it is not – irrelevant. Changes nothing. Refugees were created by your beloved UN. Palestinians might eventually get their own State when they stop terrorism, but anyhow, they are not returning to Israel, maybe a few thousands, as a good will gesture by Israel, as part of the broader peace/land exchange agreement.
And if they don’t stop terror, they should claim asylum at the Electronic Intifada.
So, best of luck to you and BDS.
And stop posting unverified, unsourced quotes (that’s how they call your favorite Dayan thing at Wikipedia).
Oh, dear, you’ve made me quote Dayan again:
“There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”
~Moshe Dayan
“. . . Let us not today fling accusation at the murderers. What cause
have we to complain about their fierce hatred to us? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we turn into our
homestead the land and villages in which they and their forefathers have
lived.
“We should demand his blood not from the [Palestinian] Arabs of Gaza but from ourselves . . . Let us make our reckoning today. We are a generation of
settlers, and without the steel helmet and gun barrel, we shall not be able to
plant a tree or build a house. . .”
~Moshe Dayan, at the funeral of an Israeli farmer killed by a Palestinian Arab in April 1956, quoted in The Iron Wall by Avi Shlaim, p. 101
Avi Shlaim, New Historian, a reactionary anti-Israel revisionist? Just as Wikipedia says – unsourced and unverified.
Yeah, how could St. Antony’s, Oxford, the British Academy, and all those others have been so taken in by that charlatan?
Remember the First Law of Holes, herson.
No kidding. I’ve used that quote all over, including on Twitter. At least 100 times. It’s often sent Zionists into fits, but this is the first time I’ve encountered one claiming that it’s not authentic.
(Amusingly, one Zionist on Twitter told me that Moshe fucking Dayan was a “self-hating Jew.” HAHAHAHAHA
It’s utterly astonishing that you would set yourself up like that. WikiQuote has it under “Sourced,” for the very good reason that it is found in
The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World by Avi Shlaim. Shalim is a “British/Israeli historian. He is emeritus professor of International Relations at the University of Oxford and a fellow of the British Academy.”
What a gift. I’m bookmarking this to very easily show what a lying clown you are.
Indeed, you are well aware that I’ve fully documented the two fathers of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, and Vladimir Jabotinsky, explicitly insisting that Zionism is a colonial project.
Your capacity for lying, your denial, are truly astonishing!
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Israel
Also, learn about New Historians.
God, you are so pathetic. You are citing a wiki TALK PAGE. That’s, like, nothing. You know very well that’s where the editors hash out what should make the final cut and what is sourced and what is not. Your claim of it being “unsourced” didn’t make the cut, and it was placed under “Sourced,” with attribution to an Oxford historian in excellent academic standing.
I’ve been debating Zionists for at least 4 years, and not one other than you has claimed that the Dayan quote is inauthentic. Not. One. To be sure Zionist have hissy fits over it, and say all kinds of nonsense in response, but never has one denied the authenticity.
You mean as in the way it was mandated for Palestine to accept millions of Jews?
Finally. I’ve been asking Zionists, any Zionist here, to directly answer this question:
How could any liberal Western democracy, including Israel which purports to be such, be destroyed by the three planks of BDS, as Omar Barghouti sets them forth in the interview above, to wit:
And after multiple, meandering, massive walls of text, Jonah finally directly answered:
NOW you have answered the question. Israel is not a liberal Western democracy. By definition, those do not enforce a mandatory ethnic majority.
So, when all you Zionists claim BDS is “antisemitic,” you make that claim for the absurd reason that it opposes Israel’s “right” to mandate an ethnic majority. In which case, it follows, that it is antisemitic to adhere to contemporary standards of what it means to be a liberal democracy.
Thank you, Jonah, for being the first here to finally answer the question.
Isn’t it hypocritical for Palestinians to demand a Palestinian right of return when Palestinians refused to allow the Jews a Jewish right of return.
That never happened.
What never happened?
Palestinians have never been in a position to deny anyone any claimed “right of return.” They did, however, object to colonizing, European Jews, as I discuss here.
Palestinians murdered Jews from Europe who were returning to their homeland in Palestine.
“What never happened?”
Jews do not have a right of return any more than the Romans right to London.
2000 years is game over.
Romans were not indigenous to London.
Jews were indigenous to Palestine.
What is the expiration date on the right of return?
This is from Huffington Post. I am puzzled as to how their radical left wing filter missed that:
The Phobia of Being Called Islamophobic
“As of this writing, the National September 11 Memorial Museum still hasn’t caved in. But the pressure is building, and it feels very familiar.
The problem is a seven-minute film being shown at the soon-to-open museum called The Rise of Al Qaeda. Narrated by NBC’s Brian Williams, it uses words like “Islamist,” “Islamic,” and “jihad” in reference to the 9/11 hijackers and their motives.
Some Muslim groups, and others like the Interfaith Center of New York, want the film edited to remove those terms. They don’t want the public to think that Islamism or jihad had anything to do with Al Qaeda or the 9/11 attacks, because that could foster “Islamophobia.” We’ve so been down this road before.”
They also talk about “Greenwald Syndrome: ” The phenomenon of Western liberals, in a supposed show of tolerance, embracing an apologist stance in favor of the intolerant.”
And they quote Sam Harris: “There is no such thing as ‘Islamophobia.’ This is a term of propaganda designed to protect Islam from the forces of secularism by conflating all criticism of it with racism and xenophobia. And it is doing its job, because people like you (Greenwald) have been taken in by it.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/the-phobia-of-being-calle_b_5215218.html
Terrorist Sympathizer Greenwald: American Media ‘Racist’ for Not Bashing Israeli ‘Savagery’
” Glenn Greenwald, the radical left investigative reporter for The Guardian who published NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden’s documents, called the American media “racist,” “anti-Muslim” and “ethno-centric” “cowards” in a Huffington Post Live interview with Marc Lamont Hill Monday. His strong words are unsurprising considering his defense of the terrorist front group CAIR.
Huff Po Live host Marc Lamont Hill ate up the anti-Israel rhetoric and agreed with Greenwald that far too much media sympathy was paid to Israel while Gazan civilians were being ignored. Hill asked, “In the midst of this kind of imbalance in coverage, what grade would you give the U.S. media?”
Greenwald gave the American media an “F,” for not stirring the same level of outrage for Gazans killed as Americans felt for 9/11 victims.
“We can stand by and watch almost 2000 Palestinians now be killed, it’s approaching the number that America lost on 9/11, even though it’s a tiny percentage of the population and have the media be essentially calm about it.”
And you’ll never guess why the media isn’t totally in the tank for Hamas:
“I think there’s a racist element to it. I think there’s an ethnocentric element to it. There’s definitely an anti-Muslim strain that runs throughout how this coverage is conducted.”
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/kristine-marsh/2014/08/05/terrorist-sympathizer-greenwald-american-media-racist-not-bashing-is
I personally don’t think that Glenn is a terrorist supporter. In my humble view, I think this may be something that is relevant here, perhaps:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. Narcissists may concentrate on unlikely personal outcomes (e.g., fame) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment. Related Personality Disorders: Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic. Narcissism is a less extreme version of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissism involves cockiness, manipulativeness, selfishness, power motives, and vanity-a love of mirrors. Related personality traits include: Psychopathy, Machiavellianism.
Narcissists tend to have high self-esteem. However, narcissism is not the same thing as self-esteem; people who have high self-esteem are often humble, whereas narcissists rarely are. It was once thought that narcissists have high self-esteem on the surface, but deep down they are insecure.
Oh dear, there you go again.
And how very appropriate that you quote an esteemed, highly credible source like Newsbusters. You seem unaware that a site we both well know has an entry on that fine journalistic outlet. Do check out those External Links at the article. Newbusters is a hoot.
Readers: this is “herson.”
As I pointed out below, an Israeli General just compared Israel to Nazi Germany. The Israeli paper Haaretz published an analysis with 25 facts that might have prompted this; here are some of those facts:
1. The rising number of calls proclaiming, “Death to the unchosen people!”
2. The demands not to employ the “unchosen” ones, buy from them or rent or sell apartments to them, and drive them from the Holy Land (all sanctified by the Rabbinate and other kosher rabbis, naturally).
3. The growing thuggishness that labels every “unchosen” person a legitimate target for insults, abuse, assaults, vilification and, if possible, manslaughter.
4. A soccer team that swears its ranks will include only those of pure blood and religion, and whose fans’ most popular chant is “Death to the unchosen ones.”
5. A society that produces pogrom-like actions and lynch mobs, church and mosque arsonists, and plenty of thugs and scoundrels.
6. Elected officials encouraging extrajudicial killings on our streets.
8. Spiritual leaders who publish books that determine when it’s acceptable to kill gentiles and their children. These religious leaders still tend their flocks.
9. A movement that defends the purity of the people and its blood, and persecutes lecherous “unchosen” ones who dare consort with daughters of the Chosen Ones in order to defile them. On his Facebook page, the head of this holy movement calls for the mass murder of the “unchosen ones,” knowing no harm will befall him.
11. The chief Sephardi peddler of religion who declared, “Goyim were created solely to serve the Chosen People.” His noble predecessors determined that only Slavic nations were created in order to serve the then-master race. Our religious pastor surpasses them: he deemed all nations our servants.
13. The brilliant legal sophistry that prohibits the “unchosen” ones from purchasing state lands. Only the Chosen People may do so.
14. The hundreds of communities that meticulously ensure the purity of their chosen population. The “unchosen” may not enter their gates lest they cause contamination by their very presence. All of this is legal.
16. The fact that the assets of the “chosen ones” remain theirs forever, even after thousands of years of abandonment that exceed any statute of limitations. In contrast, the assets of the “unchosen” – even when they’re still holding them – will be confiscated, stolen, expropriated and transferred to the Chosen People. Just as our magnanimous Lord in heaven decreed.
18. A state that locks up a million and a half people in a gigantic enclosure, unsure whether to call it “Pale of Settlement” or the “Gaza Ghetto.”
19. A regime that imposes a grotesque legal system upon millions, which doesn’t require evidence and shows no truth, justice or compassion. However, the system does have a “court” – a contemptible theater whose main purpose is to give a “legal” and “authorized” appearance to a military dictatorship.
21. A government that rules an occupied people, and sometimes its own subjects, according to emergency regulations that give it limitless authority “for security reasons.” (Damn, I wish I could remember where I’ve heard of this trick being used before.)
22. A state – unique among all the world’s democracies – in which there’s no legal way for a “chosen” person to marry an “unchosen” one.
24. A state that insists it’s the “only democracy” in the Middle East, whereas it’s actually the only “military theocracy” in the entire world.
#BDS
Steve really needs some basic civics instruction, and to lay off the bong.
Steve, pray tell us all in what sense any person living in Gaza could said to be a “citizen?” You see, The Palestinian Authority thought to offer “honorary citizenship” to some activists involved in one of the Freedom Flotillas, and as Haaretz pointed out:
Now really Steve, are you trying to tell readers here that Israel — which controls Gaza militarily — won’t let any Jews reside there? Geez, Steve, are there, like, hordes of Jews longing to live in this immiserated, blockaded open air prison?
I so seldom do this, but: LOL
About 5000-10,000 Jews lived Gaza at one time – and Israel removed them from their homes. It was the elected Hamas that turned Gaza into an “open air prison” by continuing to launch rockets into Israel. You can laugh all you want, but the elected government of Hamas has brought a couple of wars to Gaza including millions of dollars spent on tunnels……for Hamas. Of course, the population in Gaza had no where to hide.
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
Jonah Paritzky is either very confused or historically illiterate.
Well, no. They are refugees who were ethnically cleansed by Zionists who destroyed hundreds of their cities and villages — slaughtering hundreds of them — and herded them into the open air prison of Gaza and into the West Bank. Moshe Dayan understood this, which is why during a eulogy for an Israeli solder whom a Gazan killed in 1956, Dayan declared:
The clear-eyed (and monstrous) Dayan understood that no people would passively accept what Zionists did and do to the Palestinians. But you, Jonah, and all the other Zionists here, refuse to face this reality.
“…….The clear-eyed (and monstrous) Dayan understood that no people would passively accept what Zionists did and do to the Palestinians. But you, Jonah, and all the other Zionists here, refuse to face this reality…..”
But the Palestinians did Mona. The Palestinians (and Arab states) rejected the partition plan – and then 45 years later accepted a worse deal at Oslo. Speak about a leadership void. The Palestinians and Arabs states gambled that the Jewish state would fall – and lost. But the Palestinians were far from done. They decided to initiate the second Intifada after an offer of peace from Israel absolutely gutting the peace process.
After those two major gaffs, you would think the Palestinians would be done? Uhhhh, no. After Israel pulled their settlements out of Gaza, the Palestinians elected a terrorist organization to power – and two wars and 3500 dead Palestinians later, the Palestinians are no closer to a Palestinian state.
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
FYI. California has a bill in the works, AB 2844, that would force the state gov’t and any local entities from doing business with firms participating in any boycott of Israel, presumably including BDS. Local entities would include, presumably, cities, counties, special use districts, and presumably the two state university systems.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB2844
Shameful. More than that: disgusting.
We need to consider how best to challenge these bills, which are proliferating at a rapid rate. Constitutional challenges much preferred.
BTW, I’ve just learned that my Assembly Creature is a principal coauthor. I intend to make sure that costs him some votes (in addition to mine).
They are already doing it in Ohio…with House Bill 476.
http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=4728
@Jayz
Another fascist who doesn’t know the meaning of the words he writes:
Definition of ad hominem
1 appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
That’s attack on a person, as opposed to addressing the argument. This is precisely what your vile type does on this site:
Someone says X, and your type, instead of arguing about X, screams Hasbara/Zionist, as that lady-skunk Mona always does. Or as the Beavis type Barabbas does: he screams Zionista and get off my planet.
Then you run to Papa Glen and have him wipe the posts you don’t like.
This is what you, Greenwald’s sock puppets, do to shut down dissent. The only way lies, vile bigotry and Jew-Hate can exist is when you shut down dissent.
Tsk-tsk “herson,” still trying to mislead readers. You are one of the most depraved individuals I’ve had the misfortune to encounter on the Internet. As my link somewhat explains.
And herson, Zionists flee to scads of formal and informal fallacies all the time; fallacies constitute virtually 90% of their “argument, ” and you are no exception. For you, of all people, to pose as admonishing anyone else about the definition of any fallacy is mildly amusing.
If you had bothered your literate self to read beyond what google brought up on top of the page you would have understood the meaning of the word beyond a robot can do. Regrettably, and in line with the tenor and substance of all your writings, you elected to remain superficial and shallow.
Don’t raise your voice, improve your argument!
Save that BS for your furher Soros. I don’t use Google search.
P.S. You people don’t have an argument
If this comment appears it proves that the Intercept does not validate email addresses. I’m posting this using an invalid, non existent email address.
This flaw in the Intercept comments software allows a person to post comments under multiple aliases using bogus email addresses.
I am beginning to distill one of the arguments posed by anti-BDS folks here.
In essence, the point they are making is this: we are all equal, but some are more equal than others. For those who are more equal, some forms of racism are acceptable. For example, some forms of nationalism in which the life and liberty of other groups are taken away is acceptable to them because ___ fill in the blank with your favorite ad hominem.
Pure Islamic Supremacy. As far as Omar is concerned, Jews only have rights in the Middle East under Islamic terms. They’re free to live as Dhimmis, nothing more. Jewish self-determination is unacceptable under the dictates of Islam. The patch of land which comprises modern day Israel was at one point in time conquered by invading Islamic armies. As such, it must remain under Islamic control indefinitely.
The movement for Palestinian statehood is a farce. It’s a purely Islamist movement driven by a bigoted desire to deny a minority their right to live under their own terms. It has nothing to do with nationalist aspirations of the Palestinian people. Omar Barghoutti is not a humanitarian nor is he a champion of social justice. He is an Islamic Supremacist who has cynically hijacks the language of social justice to conceal his Islamist agenda. In short, he is a gigantic pussy because he doesn’t have the balls to openly declare his true agenda. Anyone who proposes a bi-national solution is not a human rights activist. They are simply framing their cause in a way that will appeal to the sensibilities of the international community. They use ‘settlement’ expansion as an excuse for why a 2 state solution is no longer viable. They do this because they know a 2 state solution will not give them what they want. They are unconcerned with democracy, freedom or human rights. It is all just a ruse to destroy Israel. A 2 state solution can guarantee the existential concerns of the Jewish people and uphold the human rights of the citizens of Palestine . It can literally provide everything people like Omar purportedly want for the Palestinian people, yet they reject it. Why do you think that is?
The idea that Jewish Israelis will entrust their security and freedom to the whims of a Muslim-majority population is insanity. Mass graves of minorities are being uncovered in neighboring countries as we speak. For people to espouse positions which do not account for the security concerns of the Jewish people is the height of moral cowardice. The notion that you can just spout platitudes about equal rights and then distance yourself from the inevitable consequences of your proposals is reprehensible. We live in the real world. Jews will not become the Yazidis. We will not become another vulnerable Middle East minority the left turns its back on.
Wow, that’s quite a collection of vacuous, unsupported assertions ya got going there, Jonah. No Zionist will directly answer this inquiry, and I’m quite certain that will include you — as it has thus far. But I’ll put it to you anyway:
How could any liberal Western democracy, including Israel which purports to be such, be destroyed by the three planks of BDS, as Omar Barghouti sets them forth in the interview above, to wit:
Well?
Unlike you Mona, I will not gloss over inconvenient details. I will address your point directly and not descend into hysterical name calling.
My views on this conflict are framed by the inescapable realization that Islamic governance is utterly incompatible with liberal values. It follows that any effort to resist the introduction of Islamic law will serve to strengthen a nation’s democracy and re-affirm their commitment to liberal values.
1) Israel’s military ‘occupation’ of Gaza and the West Bank is a defensive response to the aggression and expansionism of Islamic-majority nations. As has been made abundantly clear time and time again, the surest way for Israel to guarantee its security is to maintain some form of a military presence in a disputed area. Their withdrawal from Gaza and Southern Lebanon precipitated the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah, respectively. Israel is significantly less safe now that these 2 border regions are controlled by terrorist organizations. If the IDF still had a presence in Gaza, Hamas would not have built an elaborate network of underground tunnels leading directly into Israel. If the IDF didn”t vacate Southern Lebanon, Hezbollah would not be amassing an enormous arsenal of deadly rockets. If Israel had caved to international pressure and withdrew from the Golan Heights, ISIS or Assad would now control a strategically important piece of land overlooking Northern Israel. So we oppose the first “plank” of the BDS platform because it puts over 6 million Jews in immediate physical danger.
2) Israel’s Arab citizens have full rights and thus the Apartheid comparison is absurd and an insult to South Africans who lived under a real apartheid regime. As far as the territories go, this is not Israel’s fault. In what world does a nation attack its neighbor and then upon defeat demand that its citizens be enfranchised and given citizenship by the victorious nation. That is a proposal without precedent. Israel did not ask for millions of Palestinian to come under its control. Israel will not allow their neighbors to manufacture win-win situations for themselves. The notion that Israel will allow its neighbors to achieve demographically what they cannot achieve militarily is absurd. Israel has spent the last 50 years trying to negotiate a plan to extricate itself from this quagmire in a way that doesn’t compromise its national security. I hope that addresses the second “plank” of BDS
3) The right of return will not happen. That ship has sailed. The right of return will render the Jews a minority in their own homeland. Minorities are treated terribly in Muslim-majority countries. Considering the contents of the Koran, Jews will certainly be no exception to this rule. Free expression, religious freedom, women’s rights, gay rights will come under threat in a Muslim-majority nation. The rights of Arab Israelis will also be imperiled by the right of return. The Palestinians who fled in 1948 effectively expelled themselves. A plan was in place for two countries. The Jews accepted the partition plan, the Arabs declined. Nobody had to go anywhere. They chose genocide and they lost. Do you really think an over-matched collection of Holocaust survivors thought the best way to guarantee their survival would be to arrive in the Middle East and promptly launch a war against all its neighbors at one time? The surrounding nations attacked after Israel declared independence. Israel declared independence after the British withdrew because there was already a sizable Jewish population in Mandatory Palestine. Israel survived by the skin of its teeth. People are displaced in combat zones. The notion that Israel would welcome back populations who sought to sabotage the creation of the state is suicidal and also without precedent. That is why we oppose the third “plank” of BDS.
It’s 2 states or the status quo. Your attempt to conceal the true nature of your cause is pathetic and cowardly. Your indifference to the security of the Jewish people is actually grotesque. The mask slipped when you openly expressed on this very comment board how you are sick and tired of hearing about the Holocaust. You confirmed what I have long suspected is common among those on the far left. The Holocaust is nothing more than a pesky inconvenient truth you wish you could ignore. While you do not deny it happened, you are seeking to relegate it into historical obscurity. That’s almost as bad. It’s a way for you to unburden yourself of a historical fact which renders most of your arguments incoherent and untenable. The Holocaust happened, Mona. Israel exists so it won’t happen again. Did I answer your fucking question? Get back to your cats
No. Please try again to directly answer the question:
How could any liberal Western democracy, including Israel which purports to be such, be destroyed by the three planks of BDS, as Omar Barghouti sets them forth in the interview above, to wit:
what?? Are you serious? I specifically addressed why the three “planks” of BDS would destroy any liberal western democracy. You’re like Derek Zoolander. “But why Male Models?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHrn_pHW2so
Jonah, then you are admitting that the goals of BDS would not, in fact. “destroy Israel.” Because you gave no reason why those three planks would destroy a liberal Western democracy.
Or, are you agreeing that Israel is not a liberal Western democracy? If so, then what is Israel?
I clearly explained how those three planks destroy Israel. I cannot be any more clear. How are you not getting this??? If the Jews are a minority in Israel, it is no longer Israel. If Israel withdraw from territory, it comes under attack. Israel has no system of racial discrimination. It is simply controls citizens who came under its control after they were attacked. The situation in the territories was not by design. They have been trying to cede control for generations. The Palestinians refuse to accept their offers of statehood
You mean the way it was for millennia, when Arabs outnumbered Jews by nearly 3:1, so Israel never was in existence.
You are foundering with your hasbara. Don’t worry though, it’s not you. The word is out.
“I will not gloss over inconvenient details. ”
Neither will I.
Send money to Palestine and you are sent to jail.
Send medical aid to Palestine and you are murdered by IDF Storm-troopers.
Send money to Israel and you get a federal tax deduction.
Explain that bullshit.
I’ll do it for you. AIPAC , i.e. Haim Saban – HRC’s sugar-daddy, has bought the vast majority of of congresspersons. They now serve a foreign master; Israel.
Well, then, I’m sure Israeli leaders will finally be willing to accept the provisions of UNSC Resolution 242, right?
I don’t know the specifics of the UNSC 242 resolution but in the year 2000 Israel offered the Palestinians 97% of the West Bank, all of Gaza and East Jerusalem and Arafat declined the offer. If Palestinians are truly a stateless people who want nothing more than their own homeland, why do they continually reject offers? Why do they choose “apartheid” when an independent country has been available to them since 1947? Do you think the Kurds would reject an offer for a homeland if one was offered to them? The only explanation for Palestinian intransigence is that this whole conflict has never been about Palestinian nationalism. Palestinians are West Jordanians, Southern Syrians and Northern Egyptians. The creation of a 23rd Arab state is subservient to the goal of destroying Israel. That’s why nobody said a word about a Palestinian State when Jordan and Egypt occupied the West Bank and Gaza, respectively.
lol! I inadvertently posted my full name. Damn google chrome autofill settings. Oh well. I’m happy to attach my name to my opinions.
Doug
“……..Well, then, I’m sure Israeli leaders will finally be willing to accept the provisions of UNSC Resolution 242, right?….”
I don’t think Israel is going to fully adhere to UN 242. The temple Mount is in East Jerusalem and it was illegal for Jews to visit the holiest site in Judaism under Jordan’s administration of the Palestinians territories until the Six Days War in 1967. In fact, Jordan never attempted to create a Palestinian state. Those were the days when the Arab states were “negotiating” (for the Palestinians) for ALL of Israel.
The Oslo Accord also allowed for wiggle room from the Green line to incorporate some settlements into Israel. Personally, I think it would be ideal if Israel did pull back to the 67 borders, but I don’t believe even the Palestinians think that is realistic.
[sigh] Ok Readers:
This site has been heavily afflicted with hasbara trolls, likely all one person using many accounts. He/they have been banned upwards of 10 times for stalking people/real-life harassment, gross anti-Muslim bigotry, copyright violations and crapflooding the comments with huge quantities of drivel.
In his/their latest iteration he/they go by: “herson,” “Steve,” and “Jack Green.” Do scroll right on past these nuisances. (The staff will eventually ban these accounts as well, but in the meantime they create malicious mischief. Waddareyagonnado?)
For your convenience, I’ve put together a compendium of links to some of my substantive posts throughout this thread — which usually include documentation — comments which many readers find useful and informative.
Here is my contribution the Intercept’s team of vile fascists engaged in mass personal attacks against anything/anyone they don’t like to shut down the dissent:
I have found one more country that is engaged in “apartheid” this time it is UK.
Here is Anjeam Choudary, a British “activist” who is fighting to emplement sharia law in Britain. He is known for supporting 911 attack in the US and 77 – in the UK. Here is he on BBC claiming UK is apartheid State directed against Muslims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BrueU4xd2w
I think he will be a great addition to The Intercept’s journo team together with Rania Khalek.
The life of minority citizens of Israel: Israeli Arabs are doctors, lawyers, judges, scientists, professors, teachers, journalists, businessmen, etc.
The life of minority citizens of Egypt, Syria, Gaza, Jordan, etc.: Starvation, death, bigotry, discrimination, misery, and massive illiteracy.
This is basic reality.
Reality makes anti-semites angry. Some are reading this and their entire day is now ruined. They are furious. Positive facts about Israel makes anti-semites furious.
Correct.
Only if you’re a brain-damaged zio window licker.
Your indoctrinated zio-Jew colonial-settler fascists are the minority “ethnic group” in Palestine, anti-Semite, and they always will be.
Yep, which is why you indoctrinated psychotic zios are the angriest anti-Semites on the planet.
Your zionism induced delusions ain’t facts, so rage on, you angry little zio anti-Semite.
“Ethnic cleansing”
Israel has over 1.3 million Arab citizens. They haven’t been expelled. They are in Israel right now, living life.
Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Gaza have ERASED their Jewish citizens to… almost ZERO.
Right.
Wrong.
“They haven’t been expelled.”
Unlike the 700,000 (about 80% of the Palestinian Arab population in what would become Israel) expelled in 1948, the several hundred thousand likewise expelled in the Six-Day War, and their descendants, altogether numbering, now, in the millions.
So, that’s alright, then, even if those 1.3 million you mentioned live as second-class citizens in their homeland.
Your “israel” has several million “Arab citizens”, anti-Semite.
Yea, and 12 million Jews weren’t Holocausted, anti-Semite.
Yea, as third class citizens of your zionistan, anti-Semite.
No, that was you and your fascist zio ethnic cleansers, anti-Semite.
BDS promotes ethnic cleansing of Jews entirely out of the West Bank, BDS is OK with Gaza having literally zero Jews, BDS promotes a Palestinian state that would blatantly discriminate against any Jew. AND BDS promotes the act of millions of Arabs/Muslims flooding into the world’s one tiny Jewish state WITH THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE of ERASING Israel as a Jewish state SPECIFICALLY so there’d be a Palestinian state run by Arabs/Muslims AND Israel being ERASED and ALSO being run by Arabs/Muslims.
BDS basically tells Jews that their nationalism is evil yet Arab and Muslim and Palestinian nationalism is ENCOURAGED. BDS tells Jews that they have to commit national suicide or else they’re “racist.”
BDS tells Israelis that they must suicide their own homeland and allow a massive Jew-hating population conquer Israel and erase Israel or else Israelis are “racist.”
BDS isn’t about peace or co-existence, it’s just an assault on Israel’s very existence.
In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority makes it ILLEGAL for any Palestinians to sell a house to a Jewish person. This is blatant anti-semitism that the world of BDS OPENLY ACCEPTS.
BDS doesn’t just fight Israel’s “occupation.” Israel won that extra land in DEFENSIVE wars, and Israel won that land from EGYPT and JORDAN, not from “Palestinians.” BDS also makes no demands of peace towards Israel. Israel is expected by BDS to hand land and power to rabid Jew-haters who want Israel destroyed, AND BDS demands the “right” of millions of Arabs to enter Israel, be handed citizenship, so they can vote to… erase Israel.
(And by the way, 80% of historic Palestine became JORDAN. That’s the “Palestinian state” that the world pretends doesn’t exist.)
BDS singles out Jewish nationalism as something to be destroyed, yet accepts Muslim nationalism. BDS singles out Israel as the world’s only country that needs to be erased, while accepting every Arab country AND promoting a “final solution” against Israel.
Well said, Steve.
Dishonest Lunatic: “Eliminate Israel! Boycott all Israelis! Boycott all things Israeli! Arab and Muslim nationalism is okay but Jewish nationalism is evil! Arab and Muslim states are okay but a Jewish state is racist! Israel must hand land and power to jihadists and Islamists who will only use that power to eliminate Israel and murder more Israelis!”
Normal person: You’re anti-semtiic.
Dishonest Lunatic: Legit criticism of Israel is NOT anti-semitic.
Sam Harris is right on point about the fascist left
“These people are part of what Maajid Nawaz has termed the “regressive Left”—pseudo-liberals who are so blinded by identity politics that they reliably take the side of a backward mob over one of its victims. Rather than protect individual women, apostates, intellectuals, cartoonists, novelists, and true liberals from the intolerance of religious imbeciles, they protect these theocrats from criticism.
The profundity of this moral blindness seems to have achieved an almost crystalline form in the person of Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald is a gay, Jewish atheist who would be murdered three times over in scores of Muslim communities for reasons that are unambiguously religious. And yet, he considers any focus on this particular brand of theocracy—even by someone who has suffered under its shadow as much as Ayaan has—to be a sign of malice toward innocent people. When cartoonists get butchered in Paris to shouts of “We have avenged the Prophet!” Greenwald races to his keyboard to castigate the dead, liberal cartoonists for their (nonexistent) bigotry. He allies himself with a group like the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), which has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and works tirelessly to blur the line between legitimate civil rights concerns and theocratic bullying. These are the people who get Ayaan blacklisted from speaking at universities, and Greenwald has publicly stated that there is no group he is prouder to have collaborated with.
According to Greenwald and the rest of the regressive Left, one can criticize religion in general, but any special focus on Islam must be motivated by bigotry or “Islamophobia.” And on that assumption, many of these people think it’s fair to slander and demonize anyone who does focus on Islam—even a true Muslim reformer like Maajid Nawaz. Maajid is a former Islamist, who now runs a counter-extremist think tank in the UK. And yet for merely entering into a dialogue with me about the prospects of spreading secular, liberal values in the Muslim world, he was branded a “native informant” and a “porch monkey” by Greenwald’s colleague at The Intercept, Murtaza Hussain, and a “lapdog” by Reza Aslan’s employee, Nathan Lean. These people are simply desperate to shut down dialogue on what is fast becoming the most important political and moral question of our time. Everything they do in this area is dishonest and destructive. ”
https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sam-harris-the-salon-interview
“These people are simply desperate to shut down dialogue on what is fast becoming the most important political and moral question of our time. Everything they do in this area is dishonest and destructive.”
That is precisely what is going on at the Intercept’s comments threads…
tl;dr
But I caught mentions of that con man Maajid Nawaz.
Gawd, you and your allies really are fond of lies. This never happened:
If any reader asks in good faith, about any of the bullshit claims in that dreck above, I can rebut it with little effort. But otherwise I’m done.
The Intercept begins mass release of many Snowden documents. That is a link to a complete set of the NSA internal newsletters Snowden gave to journalists.
Greenwald: THE INTERCEPT IS BROADENING ACCESS TO THE SNOWDEN ARCHIVE. HERE’S WHY
The Jerusalem Post: Haifa U offering students new elective in ‘hasbara’
Got that folks? They’re training hasbara trolls at Haifa University, but they ARE NOT POLITICAL. Zionists have a very special dictionary for many words, “political” now being one of them.
Glenn Greenwald: Fascism’s Fellow Traveller
“When Glenn Greenwald castigates the dead Charlie Hebdo cartoonists for racism,” the writer Sam Harris observed recently, “he’s not only proving that he’s a moral imbecile; he’s participating in a global war of ideas over free speech – and he’s on the wrong side of it…. . As Sam Harris noted, the blood had scarcely dried on the walls of Charlie Hebdo‘s offices before Greenwald published a furious article at the Intercept, reviling the magazine for its alleged racism and pouring scorn on its defenders. That his misreading of Charlie Hebdo demonstrated a profound ignorance of their material and a dismal inability to parse satire ought to have been beside the point. After all, as Greenwald was at pains to remind his readers, he has spent much of his life defending the freedom of people to express views he abhors.
But while he was careful to include a perfunctory, throat-clearing defence of Charlie Hebdo’s narrow right to ridicule Islam, Greenwald’s more pressing concern was the denigration of people murdered for publishing cartoons offensive to their assassins. More telling still was the corresponding absence of any criticism of Al Qaeda’s pitiless death squad. Beliefs held to be unchallengeable by Islamic fundamentalists (but wildly irrational by the rest of us) were, it seems, to be exempted from the evolutionary process after all. This is all because Greenwald’s commitment to free speech is subject to a couple of slippery caveats, which make it rather more porous than he likes to pretend.
In 2013, Greenwald had argued that the whole idea of hate speech is simply a culturally- and historically-specific instrument for preserving the status quo. By 2015 – apparently unaware that he sounded exactly like those he had previously taken such pleasure in attacking – he was complaining that “some of Charlie Hebdo‘s cartoons were not just offensive but bigoted.”
Had the French authorities shared this judgement, Greenwald would doubtless have ridden to the magazine’s defence. In 2008, he had written in defence of Ezra Levant, who was being investigated by the Alberta Human Rights and Citizenship Commission for republishing the Danish cartoons of Muhammad in the Canadian neoconservative periodical Western Standard. “Here,” Greenwald had announced, “are the noxious fruits of hate speech laws,” and he found them to be “nothing short of stomach-churning.”
But the French state – which makes a clear distinction between anti-clericalism and racial hatred – did not share Greenwald’s assessment of Charlie Hebdo; the magazine has never fallen foul of France’s hate speech laws, the very existence of which Greenwald denounces as unacceptably draconian.
Given Glenn Greenwald’s prodigious contempt for the West, his impulsive sympathy for its enemies, and his generous indulgence of Jew hatred, his emergence as one of America’s most vehement Islamist fellow travellers was a forseeable development. And it is in their name that he has offered some of his most passionate arguments for free expression.”
http://quillette.com/2015/12/19/glenn-greenwald-fascisms-fellow-traveller/
Wow, another obscure blog calling Glenn Greenwald names. Well, your last one was a Truther site. This one is some collection of wingnuts posting such offerings as: “Feminism Blinds Students to the Truth About Men.”
But at least you are making some effort to keep your various accounts from tipping over into volume that would be crapflooding. They might last longer that way than the ten or so that have been banned already.
Doubtful tho. I don’t think you can control the viciousness and urge to spam. I mean, I literally believe you are incapable of it.
Mmm, the editor-in-chief appears to be a “post-feminist centrist” (or something similarly absurd and offensive to thinking women and men everywhere) and the author of the cited piece of nonsense maintains his personal online home here:
Jacobinism: Pamphleteer for the Counter-Counter-Enlightenment
Charming fellow who lists CIF Watch in his blogroll as one of his “co-conspirators.” Hey, he said it, not I. ;^)
With intellect of the caliber on the site your referenced … you should stay there herson!
After all of this debate…
Not a single coherent argument as to why BDS is racist
Not a single coherent argument as to why Zionism and Jewish are the same
Not a single coherent argument as to why Palestinians should face collective punishment
Nothing of substance on the issues, or the facts, or the evidence. Nothing but a series of accusations, whataboutery, Ad Hominems, and personal attacks.
Don’t raise your voice, improve your argument!
BDS is racist. It singles out Israel.
There’s no BDS against China which occupies Tibet & has transferred millions of Chinese settlers into Tibet. Similarly, there’s no BDS against Turkey which occupies Northern Cyprus or Morocco which occupies Western Sahara.
If we can expect to be dealing with these lame and silly non-defenses from the Junior Hasbara Training Squad, we should have a Whataboutery autoresponder.
WHATABOUTERY
Are you denying that Israel is being singled out?
Are you claiming that there is BDS against China?
Are you denying that people talk a lot more about Israeli settlers than about Chinese settlers?
Read what Doug Salzmann said – I can’t say it any better.
After that, trying brushing up on “coherent argument”, “evidence”, “whataboutery”.
Absolutely. The United States is grossly racist for singling out Israel all the damn time. It makes BDS look like pikers!
I’m proud of my country, the USA, for helping countries like Israel that are the victim of aggression.
Oh. So you are racist just like thois of us who support BDS; you actually approve of singling out Israel. Got it. Your previous comments has led me to think you disapproved of that. Sorry.
If one person is having a heart attack & another person caught a cold, it’s right to single out the person having a heart attack.
When Israel, China, Turkey & Morocco are engaged in occupations, it’s not OK to single out one country for punishment & ignore the others.
Oh Jack, you just do not know how vile all this singling out of Israel here is in my country, the United States. Here’s more on that.
Please jack, do you have any suggestions as to how we citizens of the U.S. might go about ending all of this singling out of Israel by our government?
The BDS movement is 100% anti-semitic. It is not a “peace” movement. It does not promote “justice.” There is nothing liberal or “progressive” about it. Here is why:
– The BDS movement accepts Muslim states, Arab states and a Palestinian state, yet hatefully rejects a Jewish state.
– It accepts Muslim nationalism, Arab nationalism and Palestinian nationalism, yet rejects Jewish nationalism.
– It accepts that Muslim-majority states identify as Muslim, that Arab-majority states identity as Arab, yet it DEMONIZES the world’s one tiny Jewish-majority state for identifying as Jewish.
– The BDS movement rejects the Jewish right to self-determination, while promoting Arab self-determination, Muslim self-determination, Palestinian non-Jewish self-determination, etc.
– The BDS movement singles the Jewish people out using standards they intentionally do not apply to any other groups.
– The BDS movement promotes hate of Israel’s very existence, promotes hate of every single thing Israel does to protect itself, promotes hate of Israelis as a nationality, and promotes bigotry and discrimination against Israeli universities, musicians, artists, etc. No other universities, artists, etc in the world are deemed guilty of whatever wrong their country may do. Only Israeli Jews are singled out for this sort of hate.
All of this is the very definition of anti-semitism.
The BDS movement uses dishonest buzzwords like “peace” and “justice” to try to trick well-meaning people into supporting their hate movement.
BDS is racist because it rejects Jewish nationalism and rejects Jewish right to self-determination while accepting and actively promoting Palestinian nationalism, Arab nationalism, Muslim nationalism, and Arab and Muslim self-determination. BDS doesn’t just try to end an “occupation,” it tries to end the world’s only Jewish state and promoting the ‘right’ of Israel’s neighbors to erase the world’s only Jewish state to make it another Muslim state.
So you keep claiming, but you will not answer this question:
How could any liberal Western democracy be destroyed by the three planks of BDS, as Omar Barghouti sets them forth in the interview above, to wit:
You won’t answer it now, either, because to do so would make clear that Israel is not a liberal Western democracy by any reasonable understanding of that concept. No other Zionist will directly answer this question, either.
“…….How could any liberal Western democracy be destroyed by the three planks of BDS, as Omar Barghouti sets them forth in the interview above, to wit…..”
It destroys the Jewish majority state i.e., the Jewish state. It is clear that Jews constitute a small minority world-wide so laws favor land and immigration for Jews. It is just as clear that no Muslim state would allow Muslims to become a minority in their own country. Of course, they have other ways of discouraging too much immigration – and almost every one is not a democracy. Israel falls short of being a perfect liberal western democracy. Oh well. There are worse possibilities – like every Muslim majority state in the Arab Middle East.
But you would be also hard pressed to prove that a majority Palestinian state would be a “liberal western democracy”, right?
“…….The armed wing of Palestinian militant group Hamas executed one of the group’s leading commanders after allegations surfaced of gay sex and theft, it has been revealed……….Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades shot Mahmoud Ishtiwi, 34, three times in the chest after they had detained him for a year, The [state operated] New York Times reported on Tuesday…….” my insertion in brackets…..”
Can you name one Arab state that is a liberal western democracy, Mona?
Barth, a German theologian, rejected German nationalism and the right of Germans to be pure. I would not call Barth racist.
Your claim of racism is in fact a demand that some forms of racism be recognized as legitimate. I have not seen anything in BDS that states that they wish to make Israel a Muslim state.
You undermine your arguments by making outlandish claims that any reader with an eighth grade education can verify to be false.
@Mona – “[Gator90 is] intellectually honest and moral. Which is why he is no longer a Zionist.”
Thanks, I think. It’s strange. Some of the kindest, most decent and compassionate people anywhere in the world have moral blind spots the approximate size of New Jersey.
Gator, when you defended Zionism among the rest of us, you were passionate, but never vicious. You didn’t traffic in lies or hurl abuse and cheap accusations of “antisemitism.”
I do realize my intense experiences with some of the most rancid sectors of Zionism online (but it’s quite large sector) could distort my perceptions, but I don’t think by much. Hebrew-speaking Jews compile vast numbers of tweets and Facebook discussions by Israelis, especially the youth, and puts them out in English. It’s simply soul-chilling how morally corrupted these Israeli Zionists so often are.
But in addition to you when you were a Zionist and were a great guy then as well, there’s fine men like David Harris-Gershon. I think Daniel Sieradski also self-identifies as Zionist but he is passionately devoted to the truth about Israel and the crimes committed against Palestinians.
That all said, I’ve come to strongly believe that such decent Zionists are trying to square a moral circle.
@Mona – “[Gator90 is] intellectually honest and moral. Which is why he is no longer a Zionist.”
Wow, Gator. What a transformation. The day before you became an anti-Zionist, you were just an ordinary card-carrying ethno-supremacist, racist (“anti-black”), a fascist and a Nazi supporting Zionist (like the Stern Gang). No doubt, you used the Holocaust to justify the oppression of the Palestinians and steal their land; your parents or grandparents probably collaborated with the Nazis; you certainly supported (and probably contributed) to the Jewish buyout of Congress and Parliament on behalf of Israel; you supported sending Americas to die on behalf of Israel spending our hard earned money; you supported Jewish control of the banking system and Hollywood; you probably thought that David Duke was an anti-Jewish bigot; you probably placed Israel above the US (and rooted for Tel Aviv University to beat the Gators in beach volleyball).
One visit to the Wizard of Oz and you are moral and intellectually honest now. Jesus, all in 24 hours……..
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
@Craig – “you used the Holocaust to justify the oppression of the Palestinians and steal their land”
Well, I never stole anyone’s land, but I think I did allow the Holocaust to give me, as a Jew, a certain sense of moral entitlement that ultimately proved to be morally unhealthy.
Gator, tho I’m not Jewish (the great-great-great-grandmother doesn’t change my predominantly Irish genes and cultural Catholicism) I did exactly the same thing for most of my adult life. I actually still remain suspicious of any Anglo-Westerner who, back in my early days, who didn’t have sympathy for Israel.
At that time, not enough was known by most of us to be deeply critical of Israel for morally acceptable reasons. It was the rare person who had benign reasons for hostility to Israel.
One example of that rare breed would be Vanessa Redgrave. But she had heavily informed herself about the history of what had happened to the Palestinians. Very few of us knew anything about that. Indeed, I had a vague idea that Israel had been an “empty land without a people” when Zionists established Israel. And I was sickened by the Holocaust, so my thinking was: Of course Israel!
My point is really simple. You were very likely the same person before and after you renounced Zionism. You were most likely a liberal. Mona’s broad brush painting of all Zionists is false. There is no reason to put up with the anti-Jewish bigotry promoted on this site – and Mona is one of the worst offenders.
While she has taken some obvious anti-Jewish bigots to task, she has also taken it upon herself to define what should and should not be offensive to Jewish people i.e., she DEFINES antisemitism on her own terms.
Interestingly enough, this is one of the easiest sites to post in support of Israel (as a Jewish state) because the whole discussion is about Jews and Zionism. The concept of Zionism and the history of anti-Jewish bigotry makes it really simple to defend while the trick for Mona and other anti-Zionists is to white-wash Jewish history with “Zionism is racism” and “Israel was a colonialist venture” concepts. This is a reoccurring feature of the radical left.
Good to hear from you.
@Craig
“[Mona] has also taken it upon herself to define what should and should not be offensive to Jewish people.”
I think she is entitled to her opinions about that, just as you are. Sometimes Mona thinks I should not be offended by something that does in fact offend me; sometimes you think I should be offended when I’m not. That’s all OK, really.
“You were very likely the same person before and after you renounced Zionism.”
Perhaps, but Mona in any event was usually nice to both the Zionist Gator and the anti-Zionist Gator. Speaking for myself, I like anti-Zionist Gator better.
Why Would That General Compare Israel to 1930s Germany? Hmm..
That’s the headline in the Israeli newspaper, Haaeretz, alluding to a speech by IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, who just spoke at a conference during Holocaust Remembrance Day, and declared:
IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Maj. Gen. Yair Golan is clearly an antisemite!
What it shows is the wildest pluratility of opinions that exists and well tolerated in Israel. A military commander in any Arab country saying similar things would be immediately beheaded. Yet, the general was not even reprimanded. In fact, he met with the PM who stated this: “I see this a one-time event, and from here we all move forward together.”
P.S. I note that you have somewhat toned down your usual senseless and vicious personal attacks. Good start, as these tantrums destroy/negate the causes you are trying to advance. Let’s see how long that would last
A depraved cretin engages in — surprise, surprise! — yet more Zionist whataboutery:
That simply does not work here. You’ve tried many approaches now, from the rabidly vicious and bigoted, to spamming the board without further comment at each post, to posturing as reasonable.
You do, of course, have a very hard job. Trying to find a defense of the crimes of Zionism, past and present, given the factual record of which so many of here have an excellent command. (As well as a command of Greenwald’s career history and that of The Intercept. There just isn’t anything you can dig up on teh google to spit out that we haven’t handily dealt with, usually long ago.)
Have a nice day!
“cretin”
That lasted for about 1.5 posts.
Yep. This site has turned into a nothing more than hate speech garbage landfield where rabid dogs run after anyone who won’t give them a cookie. Here is your cookie. Have a nice. Please don’t choke on your bile.
Yes, cretin is a charitable word for someone who did what you did to me with his Zionist pals; attacking me in real life through my adult son as punishment for my pro-Palestinian arguments online. A cretin is also about the best that could be said for a person who regularly refers to human beings, i.e., Palestinians, as “animals,” “things,” and “barbaric savages who can’t be negotiated with.”
Other terms come to mind, but I wouldn’t want to offend the sensibilities of a morally refined individual such as yourself. /sarcasm
Censorship and BDS, the anti-Zionist War against Jewish Independence
“A criticism often directed at Zionist or pro-Jewish groups by their opponents is that free speech means the freedom to criticize, and in turn this means that even when the anti-Zionists’ (or antisemites’) one-sided debates are governed by intimidation and cant, the attempt to deny them their right to speak is to silence “critical voices”. This is a false argument, it is the cant deployed by fascists to stifle meaningful debate if only because it is one-sided and based on deceit. Therefore, it can only work if the other side to the conflict is silenced. In this censorship is the essence of the tactics employed by those who oppose Israel’s existence.
Where Israel and its supporters have failed is that they do not replicate the tactics of their enemies. When faced with intimidation and violence you use all legal means available to you in order to punish your persecutors. You do not “play nice” with fascists as most of Israel’s enemies are. Intimidation and violence are the fascists preferred method to stifle debate. It is the antithesis of academic or intellectual freedom. The Nuremberg rallies were also examples of ‘free’ speech. The Nazis rose to power using intellectual fig leafs provided by the presence of eminent lawyers, and the scholarly erudition of the professors in their ranks. Its tactics were little different to those employed by the Boycott Divestment and Sanction (BDS) movement which is ubiquitous in Western colleges and universities… .
In the UK and USA today Jewish academics are being intimidated into silence or driven from their campuses; thus fascism censors us as it takes control.
Fascism has little to do with universal truths and everything to do with positioning a narrative to the absolute exclusion of all else. In this way, history, for the Palestinians and their supporters begins with defeat in a war they will forever deny they were responsible for starting; thereafter they are always victims and never anything other than passive players in this tragic drama.”
http://thebilateralist.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/censorship-and-bds-anti-zionist-war.html
This is hilarious.
Yeah, no. Doesn’t happen. Bullshit of the highest order. The complete opposite of truth.
Perhaps you’ve heard of Palestinian-American professor Steven Saliata? (I know you have.) The obscene campaign against Salaita is what censorship — and attempting to destroy a man whose views one dislikes — actually looks like. Zionists are pulling fascist tactics like this all over the U.S.
My great regret about Prof. Salaita and the University of Illinois reaching a settlement of Salaita’s lawsuit is that the litigation’s discovery process was not yet completed. Many of us were drooling to see the emails Zionist donors had sent to various UI officials threatening to end the cash flow if a man whose views they hated wasn’t fired. Preventing the release of that material is almost certainly a good deal of the reason why UI was so amenable to settling early and for a lot of money.
Speak the truth and they can not hear you.
Reason with them and they become unreasonable.
Inform them of facts and they attack you.
Their minds are closed and their souls are lost.
A harbarist job is to defend Israel’s views and actions to the rest of the world. Their premise is that all Palestinians are collectively (new born babies included) guilty of not being Jewish. They are less then and it is a sign of how great Israel’s compassion is, that they are not all exterminated.
Poor Mona, fighting the good fight against the army of Zionistic bots. Beware of not being used up in small skirmishes. Craig is not worth it. Please let him fade. He think he wins if someone replies to him. Let him fade.
“……Craig is not worth it. Please let him fade. He think he wins if someone replies to him. Let him fade…….”
“……My advice: play hard to get. Really hard to get……” (DocHollywood)
Doc is right, Craig. I used to be easy, a pure slut … until the worm turned.
Lesson #2:
*because the world is round, it blows my mind.
‘ In March, Israel’s interior minister, Aryeh Deri, threatened to revoke Barghouti’s residency rights, explicitly admitting that this was in retaliation for his speech and advocacy: “He is using his resident status to travel all over the world in order to operate against Israel in the most serious manner. … He took advantage of our enlightened state to portray us as the most horrible state in the world.” ‘
Right, sure.
Seriously how enlightened can your state be if it requires travel documents (meaning state permission) to be able to leave the country?
Sounds rather totalitarian to me.
Deranged hypocritical bigot who promotes worldwide hateful blacklisting against Israeli musicians, artists, scientists, culture, academia, universities, etc. is complaining that he feels blacklisted.
LOL!
Hmmm. Steve, you persist in not answering any questions posed to you in replies. You just spew out a bucket of more (vacuous) standalone comments.
Yup, it’s now obvious: Steve is a hasbara troll.
i think maybe you have gone 13 rounds and they are gasping for air. nice going. they are on the ropes and i will offer some water.
hello steve.
instead of throwing feces like a monkey, why don’t you explain your hatred for all palestinians and your thoughts of having taken their land.
maybe if you are sincere and honest, you might find some sympathy and understanding, that is, if you respect people in general, you know.
give it a try.
Barghouti is a hypocrite. He attends Tel Aviv University even while advocating a boycott of the University. He is asking everyone else to do what he won’t himself. Fucking idiot.
Good point.
Pointlessly irrelevant.
Argumentum ad hominem.
Dumb. Fail.
hey, craigsummers, what happened to your caps?
Your cadence is different, too.
You’re still not making much sense – that part remains the same.
He doesn’t have to ask!
….especially when it comes down to American poor taxpayers.
Israel has the most successful minority population in the entire Middle East, yet it is the only Middle East country that get unfairly and dishonestly accused of “racism and apartheid” by deranged obsessed psychopaths who ignore 99% of the Middle East while obsessing on the tiny 1% that is Israel.
Israeli Arab citizens are a thousand times more successful than the starving/dead minorities in the countries that surround Israel.
But, Israel has a lot of Jews. So far-left BDS-loving anti-semites single it out and target it while ignoring a 100X bigger problem right next to Israel.
Oh dear, Steve must not have noticed that in two comments I gave the definitive rebuttal to his endless ranting about “tiny” Israel vis-a-vis the BDS campaign. This is one of the comments.
And here, Steve, is the second comment rebutting your attempt to depict Israel as some insignificant little oasis of great folk that we are hatefully and gratuitously mean to.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4792206,00.html
Here is an article from the Jewish press stating the fact that Israel ranks at the bottom of the list of “Western” countries in child poverty and student achievement. This study includes those Arab children that are residents of Israel, a minority, the majority are still Jewish children. My question, why has Israel gone so little for its own children, that they rank near the bottom in welfare and achievement?
Could it be that most of the stuff coming out of Israel is just propaganda? Starting with the fact that we don’t even know the real population of that country, since so many there have dual citizenship and may only visit from time to time? Which proves my point that many citizens and fervent supporters of Zionism treat Israel itself as a summer camp. Which they will leave when the one-state solution is achieved, as Craig has informed us. Just like the Crusaders and their Kings of Jerusalem. Who remembers them?
steve,
you’re losing here.
the entire world is going to reject you.
you dont want that, do you?
wouldn’t you rather join the good world and ask for help in remedying the situation?
because really, the more stuff you regurgitate, the more it gets blown right back at you.
the world is not wanting to hate you. we want to help you. but we need to know that you arent a zionist monster, that’s all.
True.
A Jewish state is ‘racist’ yet Muslim states are acceptable because:
1) Pro-BDS people are anti-semitic hypcrites
or
2) Refuse to answer the question and just scream ‘zionist’ along with crazed hateful adjectives.
hello steve
it’s a bit tough on the rest of the planet when israel engages in monstous genocidal behavior that does stuff like this – xxx
why don’t you take a look and then explain to the rest of us – and the world – what you think the families over there are going thru when they hold their shredded gutted mangled ripped lifeless child.
if you can…
craigsummers v craigsummers:
…accusing others of sounding like racists:
…after rationalizing violence:
…sounding like a racist:
Well done, Doc. Amusingly, our new friend with all the accounts had a serious problem with Craig’s admitting Israel ethnically cleansed the indigenous Arabs of Palestine. I hope they can resolve this quarrel amicably. Friendship is too important to casually toss it away.
DocHollywood
“…..The ethnic cleansing (itself) was necessary to ensure the survival of Israel…….” – craigsummers……sounding like a racist
Sounding like one or I am one? You seem to be skeptical of your own inference. Here are some quotes from Mona. Do you believe any of these cross the line into anti-Jewish bigotry?
Mona calling Adolph Eichmann a Zionist:
“……..And altho Eichmann explicitly said, “I am a Zionist,” he didn’t mean it. Not according to the way Shalev defines “Zionism” and would prefer you to define it……To understand why Eichmann could be both a Zionist and also have committed the atrocities he did, one must understand a very critical thing about the man……..”
“……..It’s a matter of the historical record that the Third Reich did, in fact, support Zionism. Other than Nazi symbols and flags, the blue-star flag of Zionism was the only other flag permitted to fly in Nazi German……”
“……..Zionists [Jews] have grossly exploited the Holocaust as their “permission slip” to commit vicious crimes themselves, primarily against Palestinians. Enough of that. The Holocaust was an abomination, but it is not the only crime against humanity, and I now advocate that it be removed from sacred status…….” My insertion in brackets
“……Money amplifies voices. If the people First Look is hiring are able to help shape the dominant narrative, I wouldn’t even care if they were funded by a Nazi — as long as said Nazi was as laissez-faire as Pierre says he will be.…..”
Mona (even) calling Mona an anti-Semite:
“…………Ten years ago, a Jewish friend told me that neoconservatives and the Israel Lobby were the most dangerous thing to arise for Jews in many decades. He noted that once Americans realize the U.S. is sending their sons and daughters into Middle Eastern wars desired by Israel and promoted by neoconservatives and the Israel Lobby at home, there will be rage. There will be fury about the billions we send Israel and the way our foreign policy and politics are warped by the Lobby. And it has come to pass — we are seeing that with the antisemitic Trumpites. They realize it all, and they are furious…….”
According to Wikipedia,
“………In 2002, [David] Duke traveled to Eastern Europe to promote his book, Jewish Supremacism: My Awakening on the Jewish Question in Russia in 2003. The book purports to “examine and document elements of ethnic supremacism that have existed in the Jewish community from historical to modern times.”[118]……”
Mona’s response (agreeing with David Duke)
“……..And about that, he has a great deal of truth on his side……”
“………When I claim Zionists are fascists, I am not calling names or waxing hyperbolic: I mean it literally, as a reasonably well-educated person would understand the term……”
The list is endless, but I will stop here. Well Doc?
long story short –
israel has become a rogue nation led by the likud party who are right wing extremists and part of a cult called zions (in a nutshell). They have mutated into genocidal maniacs (google palestine+children+slaughter) with a whole lot of nukes that they refuse to register, refuse to allow to inspect, and refuse to sign the NPT. And their prime minister is by all appearances more paranoid than richard nixon. Did i mention they have a boatload of nukes? Did i mention their leader seems paranoid?
read on. it’s all here including some zionista propaganda.
#BDS
(pay no attention to the Yinon Plan or the USS Liberty event, wouldn’t want to scare you too much at once)
and BTW- while America crumbles they get BILLIONS of America’s money from taxes!
As so often happens, a commenter (Steve) has raised the issue of America’s obsession with Israel. Zionists, of course, constantly shriek about “singling out Israel” and insist doing this constitutes antisemitism.
The irrebuttable answer to this Zionist talking point was written by the award-winning journalist, Mehdi Hasan, in a piece titled: We Single Israel Out Because We in the West Are Shamefully Complicit in Its Crimes. An excerpt, my emphasis:
Do read the whole thing. And by the way. Obama is placating Netanyahu with an offer of increasing the money U.S. taxpayers give Israel in military aid to $4 billion a year.
The U.S. is purportedly very angry about the settlements Netanyahu won’t stop building. Why, if those settlements are still stealing land from Palestinians at this time next year we’ll get tougher, and give Israel $5 billion a year. That’ll show ’em we mean business!
whataboutery…
So the zions after WW2 asked of the politicians in America “Hey. You did clean out your country of natives, and you dont mind pushing negroes around, how about helping us out with a problem we have in Palestine?”
And American politicians who have been owned by the zion promoters and currency printers responded, “Let me see if that’s ok with my handler.”
…it happened way before WWII
In truth it is ‘at least’ one hundred years if not more…
The nation USA government needs a big cleanse in TOTAL, and ‘disappear’ the corruption in TOTAL. Israel was built on a “Lie”, and is still a “Lie” today. That is why there is no peace.
…and it’s coming. The USA is beyond BROKE. And a house can not stand when there is no foundation. All the lies, lip service, and military might can’t operate without a foundation to stand on. Good bye ISRAEL! Because your leaching, lying, corrosive bondage can’t operate when the Humpty has fallen. Take a tall drink along with your trash in DC, JNF, AIPAC, et al of your nukes, tanks, guns, and arrogance.
…and see the WALL (St./Occupation) come crumbling down all around in pieces in ashes to nothingness…
Rania Khalek: Electronic Intifadumbass
The pathological liar who recently chastised a “doctor” who suggested that Israel should harvest organs of dead terrorists to save lives. How could a doctor say that!!! How did she figure out that the person was a doctor? His twitter page said MD, which stood for Maryland. Lol. Good addition to the Intercept.
http://www.israellycool.com/2015/10/30/rania-khalek-electronic-intifadumbass/
OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!
A person made a mistake on Twitter, and misread another’s bio, thinking “MD” meant doctor rather than state of residence.
OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!
I mean, how desperate must you Zionists be to have to resort to beclowning yourself with such “indictments?”
It is not about mistakes: everyone can make a mistake. It is about a demeaning statement which is based on falsity. The Twitter statement is still there… . That’s what Khalek does. That’s what Electronic Intifada does. That’s what BDS is all about.
This is not about mistake or typo. Anyone can make a mistake. This is about a demeaning statement, which is based on falsity. The twit about how a “doctor” can say such a thing is still there. This is what Khalek does. This is what Electronic Intifada does. This is what BDS is all about.
You are a depraved but ultimately silly goose. A “twit” is not the Electronic Intifada, which has fine editors and fact-checkers, and enjoys a good reputation for factual accuracy — as close to perfect as any mainstream outlet, often better.
People, including journalists, on social media make far more errors than journalistic outlets do.
But you just run with that ball — run really, really hard! I want Zionists to stand on Twitter mistakes as their potent weapon. Please, will you do that?
only a depraved zionista would compare a typo to this. do not click the link.
But the zionista will come back with their excuse for the genocidal slaughter and call it a typo that asked the IDF to “hurry up and Bill all the palestinians”.
Good news: This interview with Omar Barghouti has gone pretty viral.
In his introduction, Greenwald cites Sarah Leah Whitson, Executive Director, Middle East and North Africa Division, of Human Rights Watch, who:
Whitson, who has almost 25K Twitter followers, is among the legion of people who tweeted this interview.
One of the benefits of The Intercept’s having so quickly risen to journalistic prominence (documentation available for any making a good faith request for it), is that it is pushing Ali Abunimah’s journalism at the Electronic Intifada more firmly into the mainstream than it already had been. When The Intercept was still new, Greenwald published a section of Abunimah’s book, the Battle for Justice in Palestine, and I urge all to read it.
Moreover, Rania Khalek reports and analyzes issues at EI, and is now writing for this site.
Progress!
#BDS
There are a lot of mentally-ill people in this world who ignore 99% of the Middle East, and just obsess on the tiny 1% that is Israel, and these mentally-ill people ignore the fact that tiny Israel is far more democratic liberal modern and successful than the other 99%, and these mentally ill people target 100% of their OBSESSED, DERANGED *HATE* towards tiny Israel, in every sentence they utter. Anyone pretending anti-semitism isn’t a part of this is just lying to themself.
Oh, yes Steve, this obsession with Israel is fucking crazy!
Steve, yes, Israel is geographically “tiny.” Why in the hell is my government, the United States, giving Israel $3 billion in annual military aid? Steve, the U.S. has a crumbling infrastructure, people saddled with life-crushing student debt, millions without health insurance, and more millions being locked up in prison because we cannot afford a proper public defenders program for the vast majority of Americans who cannot pay for counsel.
But our Congress, Steve, is obsessed with Israel. “What more can we give Israel, how can we better please Israel?” I mean, our Congress invited to address it Benjamin Netanyahu — a man who is publicly opposed to our own president. He received a standing ovation from our Congress.
isn’t that beyond ridiculous?!
Do you, Steve, have any suggestions as to how we American citizens might get our elected officials to stop obsessing over Israel? To stop singling it out like this? It’s just outrageous, Steve, and I await your input as to how to fix this problem.
You seem to be one of those, as you call them, “mentally ill people” who obsess over Israel while ignoring the rest of the Middle East, based on the content of your comment, which only mentions Israel.
Note that Israel’s claim to being “a democratic country” is highly implausible; for that to happen all Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza would have to be given full citizenship and the right to vote in Israeli elections. Yes, this might result in a Muslim being elected PM, but notice that skill at governing has little to do with religious affiliation? Israel has a long way to go before it can call itself a ‘democracy’ with a straight face.
The same is true for Turkey, which like Israel also claims to be a democracy, despite having strict press censorship (as does Israel) and despite persecuting a large portion of the population (the Kurds) and continuing to deny the Armenian genocide. Sort of in the same category as Israel, really.
Of course, Saudi Arabia has the furthest to go to reach democracy; it’s a hereditary dictatorship kept in power by (1) oil revenues and (2) Wahhabi Islam fundamentalism. The divine right of kings, as per the medieval European model, with religion used to suppress political reforms.
So, the solution is obvious: let’s expand BDS to all three countries. This seems like the way to go to me. They are all in bed with each other, they all have supported ISIS (well so has the CIA) in the past as an anti-Iranian proxy force, they all deserve the same treatment – certainly NOT “most favored nation” status.
99%? 1%? Are you saying that the jewish persons who died in forced labor camps from typhus were so small in number compared to the world population so as to not count???
zionism is a crime against humanity
zions are racists UN RESOLUTION 3379
zions are anti-americanitic
zions are anti-palestinitic
zions are anti-semitic as they use Jewish persons as human shields
israel’s new tourist attraction – hunting humans
even rabbis as DR. HAJO MEYER reject zionism
https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbis+opposed+to+zionism&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X
the world is awaking to the zion bulldooky
israel is far more democratic than …?
saudi arabia
north korea
syria
egypt
BUT THAT’S ABOUT IT!!
what a dumass argument
Barabbas, I think you’re a bit generous here. Saudi Arabia does not maintain an open-air prison that it bombs on schedule. Nor does Egypt. Syria is at war. Probably North Korea is the most apt and only comparison.
Steve…Israel is a welfare democracy funded by Western interests. Always has been. Makes you a welfare bum.
The BDS movement is 100% anti-semitic. It is not a “peace” movement. It does not promote “justice.” There is nothing liberal or “progressive” about it. Here is why:
– The BDS movement accepts Muslim states, Arab states and a Palestinian state, yet hatefully rejects a Jewish state.
– It accepts Muslim nationalism, Arab nationalism and Palestinian nationalism, yet rejects Jewish nationalism.
– It accepts that Muslim-majority states identify as Muslim, that Arab-majority states identity as Arab, yet it DEMONIZES the world’s one tiny Jewish-majority state for identifying as Jewish.
– The BDS movement rejects the Jewish right to self-determination, while promoting Arab self-determination, Muslim self-determination, Palestinian non-Jewish self-determination, etc.
– The BDS movement singles the Jewish people out using standards they intentionally do not apply to any other groups.
– The BDS movement promotes hate of Israel’s very existence, promotes hate of every single thing Israel does to protect itself, promotes hate of Israelis as a nationality, and promotes bigotry and discrimination against Israeli universities, musicians, artists, etc. No other universities, artists, etc in the world are deemed guilty of whatever wrong their country may do. Only Israeli Jews are singled out for this sort of hate.
All of this is the very definition of anti-semitism.
The BDS movement uses dishonest buzzwords like “peace” and “justice” to try to trick well-meaning people into supporting their hate movement.
BDS should stand for Bigoted Double Standards.
The world’s one tiny Jewish state, sitting next to 20 Arab states and 50 Muslim states, isn’t going to commit suicide, no matter how much the Jew-haters — oh, excuse me “zionist” haters run around screaming about how badly they want Israel dead/gone.
Ah, it’s “you” again “Steve.” Say, it’d be great, sporting of you even, if you decided to answer the multiple people who have replied to your earlier comments. You certainly never replied to me.
You claimed almost all BDS supporters:
And I asked you:
In fact, I asked you that several times.
You know, Steve, if all you do is post and never reply to people, why, we might suspect you are a hasbara troll.
So, Steve, we do await you answer.
The reason nobody talks to you, except your buddy-apparatchiks or sock puppets, is that you have littered this entire site with nauseous screams hasbara/zionism against everything you disagree with. Nobody wants to talk to you because you constantly eminate bigotry and hatred. You are the one depraved. You are the one who has never had a soul. Your hatred is eating you from inside. You are truly the lowest form of a human being. I pity your loved ones in case you have ones…
You are depraved. Do have a nice evening.
The reason ‘Steve’ hasn’t replied to Mona is that there is not much to say.
Mona is basically hitting walk-offs; game over, pal.
Your pathetic attempt at belittling her is straight out of the Hasbarat’s playbook. There is no excuse for Israel’s behavior. Sucks to be you.
Ah, the sweet frisson of agreeing with nuf said…
LOL!
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
On topic though, the Hasbara brigade are out in force on this today.
Shows how desperate they are.
anti-semitic? did you say anti-semitic? really?
you mean anti-zionist
you sound very anti-americanitic
BDS seeks Israel’s destruction. That’s why they want a ‘return,’ specifically so the world’s only Jewish homeland gets erased specifically so Muslims can have homeland number 52 or 53 or so.
If someone opposes Israel’s right to be a Jewish state, they should also oppose over 50 Muslim countries being Muslim countries.
If someone opposes Israel’s right to exist, they better also oppose the right of, oh, I don’t know, HALF THE PLANET’s countries?
If someone opposes Israel’s defensive barrier, they should probably also oppose the THOUSANDS of jihadist attacks against Jews/Israel that RESULTED in the barrier being put up.
If someone opposes Israel’s democracy for being imperfect, they should probably also oppose EVERY SINGLE ARAB COUNTRY for not even coming REMOTELY CLOSE to Israel in the democracy department.
If someone opposes Israel blockading Gaza, they should probably also oppose Egypt blockading Gaza, but more importantly, they should probably take issue with what Gaza actually did to get blockaded: Israel obeyed Gaza’s wishes and allowed Gaza to remove every single Jewish person from Gaza, and gave Gaza freedom and power, and all Gaza did with it was install the HAMAS TERROR ORGANIZATION as leaders and fire rockets into Israel on a weekly basis, all BEFORE Israel blockaded Gaza as a RESULT.
And finally, the most prickly of issues: “settlements.” The Arab world has destroyed its Jewish poplulation. Jews have been ERASED from Gaza, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc. And had been ERASED from the West Bank. So now there are Jewish neighborhoods in the West Bank. Jewish “settlements.” If you don’t like those neighborhoods, you should probably ALSO VOCALLY DISLIKE the FACT that outside of those neighborhoods, Arabs BAN JEWISH LIFE. The rest of the West bank is “NO JEWS ALLOWED” Arab neighborhoods. Jews get shot/killed for trying to live there. So if you don’t like Jewish “settlements” in the West Bank, you might also voice opposition to Arab neighborhoods which BAN JEWS, Muslim neighborhoods which BAN JEWS, because THAT sort of thing has taken place across 1/4 OF PLANET EARTH, let alone in the TINY LITTLE West Bank.
“If someone opposes Israel’s right to be a Jewish state, they should also oppose over 50 Muslim countries being Muslim countries.”
And so on, ad nauseam et infinitum.
We keep trying to tell you, and all your alter egos, Steve: repeated bombardment with whataboutery and related logical fallacies isn’t going to convince anyone with critical thinking skills or win the hearts and minds you hope to win.
What other nations or culture may do or not do is not the subject of the discussion. “He’s as bad as or worse than we are” is not a defense.
Remember the First Law of Holes:
“Nor would a wise man, seeing that he was in a hole, go to work and blindly dig it deeper . . . * ”
* Doyle, Charles Clay; Mieder, Wolfgang; Shapiro, Fred R. (2012). The Dictionary of Modern Proverbs. New Haven: Yale University Press. ISBN 9780300136029.
99% of pro-Palestinian activists and pro-BDS people just want Israel destroyed/erased.
That’s why 99% of them obsessively try to convince people that the very existence of Israel, or the very existence of Jewish self-determination, is evil/wrong. Yet of course the existence of 50+ Muslim countries is fine, somehow.
News Flash…
Israel is destroying itself without any help…
…and just like those dancing celebrating mossad ops after the planes hit the towers, I will be the first to dance.
Arab/Muslim countries are, collectively, a thousand times more racist and a thousand times more ‘apartheid’ than Israel is.
But Israel has a big Jewish population.
So, far-left anti-semites obsessively target Israel and ignore the other 99% that is infinitely bigger+worse.
So to review:
1) Israel has to hand land that it won defensively, won from countries that were using it specifically to attack Israel, to people who still want to destroy Israel. And if Israel doesn’t do this, Israel is being mean.
2) Palestinians get to reject peace and elect Hamas terrorists as their leaders, yet Israel should be fully blamed for lack of peace, even though the people who surround Israel openly reject peace with Jews/Israel.
3) Jews having a state is apparently ‘racist,’ but Muslims having 50 countries and Arabs having 20 countries is somehow not racist.
4) Jewish nationalism is ‘racist’ yet somehow Palestinian nationalism is great, Arab nationalism is great, and Muslim nationalism is great.
5) There are ‘NO JEWS ALLOWED” Arab-only neighborhoods across the West Bank, Gaza, also in most of that entire region. To pro-BDS people, ‘NO JEWS ALLOWED’ Arab-only neighborhoods are acceptable, yet Jewish neighborhoods in the West Bank (which require army protection so Arabs don’t murder those Jews) are unacceptable.
6) Pro-BDS people place NO responsibility on anyone other than Israel to make peace. The people who surround Israel can try to murder as many Jews as they want, can try to kill as many Israelis as they want, Palestinians get to elect Hamas terrorists as their leaders, ISIS gets to take over Syria, Islamic Jihad get to continue to try to destroy Israel, all of this is OK to pro-BDS people. They just want Israel to commit suicide, ‘for peace.’ Why is this? Because 99% of pro-BDS people just want Israel erased/destroyed. Because BDS is a hate movement, not a peace or justice movement.
7) Bigotry from BDS against Israel’s very existence is peaceful, somehow. Apparently, in BDS land, helping Muslims destroy the only Jewish state is honorable. In the world of BDS, bigotry and discrimination against Israeli professors, scientists, musicians, artists, etc. is acceptable, yet bigotry against everyone else in the world is frowned upon. Even when Israel is bigoted against people who are trying to destroy Israel, apparently that’s wrong too. To BDS supporters, the only acceptable hate/bigotry in the entire world is the hate/bigotry directed at the tiny 1% of the Middle East that is Israel.
8) Bigotry from this activist against Israelis is good, yet if Israel discriminates against him in response then somehow Israel is being mean.
9) Hardcore discrimination against Israeli artists, universities, culture, politicians, businesses, etc. is acceptable, yet Israel protecting itself is bad and evil. Somehow, to pro-Palestinian activists and BDS supporters, the only universities in the world that are guilty of what their government does are Israeli universities. All the other universities across the entire world are magically innocent of what their government does.
10) BDS actively blacklisting Israelis is fine, yet if Israel blacklists the people responsible than Israel is being mean.
BDS is a hate movement whose goal isn’t to merely get Israel out of the West Bank. It’s a ‘final solution’ that, if successful and implemented, would literally eliminate the world’s only Jewish state specifically to form yet another Muslim state, and would put literally millions of Israeli Jews in mortal danger.
BDS just wants Israel dead. It doesn’t want peace.
And 99% of BDS supporters know this.
ATTENTION READERS: this is from a person whose account was banned. He is recycling, I believe verbatim, posts he put up under the banned moniker.
Hasbara trolls roll like that.
BDS efforts targeting Israel’s policies are as justified as the sanctions efforts targeting South Africa’s apartheid regime, for the same reasons.
It’s part of a bigger picture, however, relating to the United States’ role in the Middle East. The fundamental fact is that our so-called ‘allies’ and ‘enemies’ in the region are neither friends nor enemies, just a pack of backwards countries in dire need of democratic and social and economic reforms if they are ever going to achieve a peaceful resolution of their many problems.
The best approach is to cut off all arms sales to the region, pull out all the military bases (which are incredibly expensive to maintain), and pressure the main factions – Israel/Saudi-GCC/Turkey on one hand, and Syria/Iran on the other, to engage in diplomatic talks aimed at brokering a peace.
Israel and the Saudis and Turkey are not allies in this effort; they are pro-ISIS, anti-democracy, anti-civil rights countries with atrocious records on human rights. Turkey and the Kurdish population is not any different from Israel and the Palesitinian population, or Saudi Arabia and the Shiite population. There’s no reason at all to be in be with such countries, any more than we should be in bed with Iran (which we used to be, during the Shah’s reign).
Unfortunately no leading U.S. politicians have the courage to point out the obvious, so it’s up to the citizens to bring the pressure on the government to back away from the Saudis and the Israelis and stop treating them as the most important client states on the face of the planet, critical to the maintenance of the global empire – they’re more trouble than they’re worth. Let’s pull out and force them to solve their own problems without any more expensive assistance.
Here is Greenwald before the Intercept:
Media outlets controlled by large corporations and all of their conflicting interests not only have proven largely ineffective at serving as an adversarial check on the government, but worse, have become mindless amplifiers of government claims. Being outside that system is now virtually a prerequisite to genuinely [critical] reporting on the actions and statements of the government.
Here is after:
For me, “activism” is about effects and outcomes. Successful activism means successful outcomes, and that in turn takes resources. It’s very easy to maintain a perception of purity by remaining resource-starved and thus unable to really challenge large institutions in a comprehensive and sustained way. I know there are some people on the left who are so suspicious of anyone who is called “billionaire” that they think you’re fully and instantly guilty by virtue of any association with such a person.
That’s fine: there’s no arguing against that view, though I would hope they’d apply it consistently to everyone who takes funding from very rich people or who works with media outlets and organizations funded by rich people – including their friends and other journalists and groups they admire (or even themselves).
Are those the same people?
I am not even talking about Omidyar’s known connection with Booz Alen, a former employer of Snowden…
zions and jews
are these people the same?
https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbis+opposed+to+zionism&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X
“Are those the same people?”
Well, actually, the same person. As we know, there is only one Glenn Greenwald. ;^)
There’s really no contradiction in those two statements. If you think Glenn is compromised by being funded by Omidyar, and you want others to think likewise, it would be helpful if you’d provide some evidence. Having watched this evolution pretty closely, I’ll be surprised if you find any.
I happen to be as radical a leftist as almost anyone on the planet. I despise capitalism and I am disgusted by people who lust after wealth and power. I think the business that made Omidyar wealthy is creepy and destructive of community values and I’d take his wealth from him and redistribute in a heartbeat, if I had the power.
On the other hand, I live in the real world and I want the Greenwalds of this world to have the resources they need to do their research and get their reporting and other writing out to the public. If Pierre Omidyar is willing to spend some of his ungodly riches to enable that, well, there are much worse things he could do with “his” money (and he probably does some of them).
I know that it’s hard for some people to understand that guilt by association is a fundamentally flawed concept, but you may be assured that it is. The rather iffy Booz Allen connection (and associated allegations) were long ago addressed by Greenwald. You can review his comments here:
Email exchange with reader over First Look and NSA reporting
Now, if you have something substantive to share, do so, with appropriate citations. If you merely want to indulge yourself in innuendo and unfounded accusations, you should probably do it somewhere else. Most of us here have heard it all before and find it, at best unconvincing.
Yup, trash doesn’t recycle well when it’s that old.
This is not some “philathropist” helping an “honest” journalist. This is someone with connections to 3-letter-agencies and who helped to prosecute Manning and suppress Wikileaks, not to mention having partners sitting on the board of Snowden’s employer. You might want to take a look here:
https://digwithin.net/2014/01/01/snowden/
“This is someone with connections to 3-letter-agencies and who helped to prosecute Manning and suppress Wikileaks . . .”
Pierre did this? Got any, umm . . . you know, evidence?
“. . . not to mention having partners sitting on the board of Snowden’s employer.”
What did I tell you about trying to sell guilt by association?
”Pierre did this? Got any, umm . . . you know, evidence?”
Oops. I forgot you are the one who doesn’t understand the meaning of the words he writes. I guess reading linked sources isn’t in your league either.
Doug, you really should follow that link. Most hilariously, it’s run by some nut who’s a 9/11 Truther. Among his sources is Sibel Edmonds, the homophobe. Her theory goes like this: Glenn’s spouse, David Miranda, is a “damsel” who “bats his lashes” to, something, something, Snowden is suspect, because damsel.
Our friend is simply using teh google for dirt, and ran into some old bullshit, settling on a Guy With a Blog for “evidence.” He’s gonna have real trouble with this tactic because we’ve been thru all that already and could rebut this drivel in our sleep.
philanthropist? you admire the land of philanthropy? you mean the kind of philanthopists that do this kind of stuff? do not click the link.
did you say, “honesty”? you have a thing for honesty? really?
got more where that came from – 2,000 something more
Mona, you were told that you could not post more than 3 comments on this article’s comment board. You’re well into the hundreds by now. Get off the computer and go feed the 17 cats which currently reside in your home.
Sadly for you, Jonah, you are not in charge of this place. Thus, your “commands” are as worthless as most everything else you post.
Jonah, you haven’t even got the bat off your shoulder.
Perhaps T-ball, just til you get the hang of it, then step up to wiffle ball.
Zionist depravity was inherent in its founding. If Theodor Herzl is the Father of Zionism, Vladimir Jabotonsky is the Second. Writing in Palestine throughout the 1920s, Jabotinsky was adamant that ethnic cleansing of the “savage” indigenous Arabs was crucial to political Zionism. In his Iron Wall he wrote:
And we’ve been seeing Zionist notions of a “civilized world” ever since. It includes murder and apartheid. It includes maintaining its victims in an open air prison and regularly bombing them. It includes burning their homes down and murdering an Arab infant in the fire, and leaving his 4-year-old brother an orphan, and severely burned.
Zionist terrorists were Jabotisnky disciples, as was Benjamin Netanyahu’s father. They made sure the ethnic cleansing did take place, and along the way got their pictures posted on Palestine Police wanted posters (wanted for terrorism).
It would happen that Israel elected two men on these wanted posters as Prime Minister: Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir.
Dozens of streets in Israel are named in honor of Zionist terrorists. Israel does not reject terrorism, except for its victims.
#BDS
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/5/12/1187645/-Psychology-Of-Hatred-Part-II-Projection-Projective-Identification
or a much more simpler way to put it….GUILT.
wow.
i read today that the massacre/genocide of the Armenians was also by the zionists who deposed the ruler of Turkey/Ottoman Empire about 1909. The zionists then slaughtered 1.5 million Christians and others.
perhaps our planet is inhabited with like-humans with entirely different brains.
http://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/palestinian-authority-occupied
http://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/shrinking-palestine
http://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/palestinian-economy-stolen-agriculture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paDxxnBDz7M
Six Million Jews 1918-1938
(read on full screen with pause…@3:06 Oct 18, 1918 the raising of $1Billion dollars mandated across the nation of the USA by quotas…14 years before Hitler came to power.)
whoa!!
what are the odds!?
You need to put the video somewhere so it can be downloaded and maintained by people before the zions have it removed, prevented, illegal.
why? the zion supremacists had a fit when some scientists wanted to test the iron at the concentration camps for cyanide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yor7rlFd-yI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x08ra1HnwG0
That’s disgusting. I flatly do not believe it. The comments under that wretched thing are teeming with lunacy about the Illuminati, unhinged cranks like Henry Makow and all sort of nonsense.
As many reputable historians reject that the Holocaust occurred as Ph.Ds in biology endorse creationism and reject evolution.
That is filth, and I utterly renounce and denounce it.
I get past the wretched comments…it is the scientific evidence that has been written into a report. eff the comments (I don’t flow with that )
The nature of these people is the same, as yours, they are just much more intelligent and sober than you…
I am of the opinion that pretty soon we will be witnessing the quick collapse of the brand here. Now more and more folks realize that the whole Snowden affair was a big non-news: there is not a single disclosure since the outset (2013) that hasn’t been known at least 10 years prior to the “revelations.” That every government is engaged (competitively) in espionage at home and abroad; that phones (including cell phones) can be listened and broken into; that your land/cell phone can be remotely controlled to listen on your activities; that your e-mails are open; that all your internet activities (even when it was AOL) were logged; that your cars can be controlled via GPS and Cell connection. Name one that hadn’t been known before. The only things we didn’t know are the names of the programs: Echelon, Prism etc. So, it is a big bubble; and once that bubble is burst, there is nothing left than a bunch of incompetent radicals, extreme ideologues surrounded by a small and similarly incompetent and deranged army of trolls.
Actually, to call this Chekhov’s Ward #6 is a grand insult to novels characters.
Pathetic…
@Craigsummers @GilGamesh @Mokasien: If you are not part of the team (which I won’t be surprised you are) to create a phony controversy, because the “journalists” here have already realized they are neither generating news nor interest, then leave. You are just wasting your time here…
So, may we take this to mean that you will be leaving us now, troll?
Please.
See, you don’t even understand the meaning of the words you write…
Definition of an internet troll:
A person whose sole purpose is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues.
So, I am expressing my opinion about the Intercept and its brand, also about the Snowden deal, which gave rise to this sorry site. Do you think it is trivial? You and your army of buddies, on the other hand, are hasbara (at least a 100 times in this thread) and your little “master” makes sure that everything of sustance is burried in the drunken Halleluja chorus. So, who is the troll? No need to answer. This was rhetorical question. LOL.
This troll well knows that The Intercept has won numerous national journalism awards in its brief existence. But on his scale of depravity the above bullshit is quite minor.
When a big badass self-glorifying country like israel is so afraid of what one man can say that they have to keep him captive in israel as a prisoner, WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?
Herson
I agree that this has turned into a hate site. In many ways, below the line comments at the Intercept make the British Labour Party look like Zionists. But leave? Not much chance of that. I might leave on occasion for some period, but never permanently. If a person is interested in the extreme left political movement, this is the place to be – and no single poster fits the description of the fringe left quite like Mona, but there are plenty of others.
Thanks and take care.
http://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/olive-harvest
800,000 Olive Trees Uprooted
5-12 years before first harvest of an olive tree.
zionists are clever, and dumb at the same time.
i really need to make the call to convene a convention for human rights and planetary preservation, happen.
not for the political hoes, but of by and for real people, to convene, and declare.
it must happen.
http://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/a-policy-of-displacement
http://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/segregated-roads-west-bank
http://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/making-of-israel
http://btd.palestine-studies.org/
Before Their Diaspora
The post lightly [edited] for clarity:
“That [democracy] is only possible if the Arab Middle East can begin to implement [the] democratic rule [the US has actively opposed and thwarted] – and that does not seem realistic in 20 years at this point in time considering the state of most Arab regimes [supported by the US].
Just the majority vote [in other words, democracy] for Morsi ( Muslim Brotherhood) in Egypt indicates the influence of fundamentalist Islam is far too strong now [that the US and its clients have diligently sponsored it for decades].
No Jew in his right mind would live as a second class citizen in their own country under Arab Palestinian majority rule [There’s an obvious corollary to consider, so I don’t]. Twenty years is just too soon to expect a one person, one vote state in Palestine [as America promotes its version of Democracy®]”
Thanks Doc. Jews are going to have to live with all the Palestinian refugees enfranchised, because: BDS. Apartheid South Africa collapsed, and so will apartheid Israel. Those who fancy themselves a liberal Western democracy prefer the company of others who so fancy themselves. Being a pariah in the group is very, very unpleasant.
Moreover, no colonial enterprise that did not commit genocide of the indigenous long survives. Ali Abunimah cites the Israeli historian, Benny Morris:
Indeed. How many are left?
Hi Doc
Mona needs all the help she can muster – and you have never had any problem with anti-Jewish bigotry – so welcome.
Mona cites Ali Abudimah from the Bennie Morris historic book “Righteous Victims”:
“……This is why Benny Morris said in 2004 that yes, ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians was necessary and justified to create Israel, but if Ben-Gurion had made a mistake it was that he did not “finish the job.”…..”
Here is another take by Bennie Morris from his 2008 book “1948” (contradicting and refuting what he said in 2004):
According to Benny Morris (“1948?, p. 120):
“……Plan D has given rise over the decades to a minor historiographic controversy, with Palestinian and pro Palestinian historians charging that it was Haganah’s master plan for the expulsion of the country’s Arabs. But a cursory examination of the actual text leads to a different conclusion. The plan calls for securing the emergency state’s territory and borders and the lines of communication between the Jewish centers of population and the border areas…….The Haganah’s “operational goals” would be “to defend” [the state] against …..invasion, assure “free Jewish movement”, deny the enemy forward bases, apply economic pressure to end enemy actions, limit the enemy’s ability to wage guerrilla war, and gain control of former Mandate government installations and services in the new state’s territory……”
It’s clear from Benny’s assessment that the expulsion of the Palestinian Arabs was for military reasons in preparation for the Arab invasion which was threatened prior to the expulsion of the Palestinians. Possibly Morris had access to new documents, or he might have been wrong in his 2004 assessment. None the less, his later version indicates that expulsion came fully four months after the partition plan was announced.
No Jew in his right mind would live as a second class citizen in their own country under Arab Palestinian majority rule
having committed genocide, i can understand the apprehension of israelis about being trapped into more genocide. That is why the 2 state solution works and why the zionistas prefer genocide.
The zioinistas really have no choice but to continue genocide because otherwise they would have to admit to genocide, and land theft.
The zionistas are so committed to genocide, the evil required to do that has captured their soul and they now love the blood death maiming and killing in all it’s glory. do not click this link
Zionism is racism. Zionism is theft. Zionism is fascism.
Foreign Jews had the same right to Palestine as Irish Catholics and Mexican atheists, i.e., none whatsoever.
Israel: 68 years of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.
“……Zionism is racism. Zionism is theft. Zionism is fascism…..”
Now we have David – the trained anti-Israel propagandist – and first class anti-Jewish bigot.
Welcome
What makes you think he is trained? One does not need any training to post garbage…
is it true that israel is now hosting a new cottage industry for zion tourists to shoot Palestinians for game?
DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK
He has trained responses like Mona only a whole lot more sophisticated.
zionism is a crime against humanity
zions are racists UN RESOLUTION 3379
zions are anti-americanitic
zions are anti-palestinitic
zions are anti-semitic as they use Jewish persons as human shields
Presumptuous Insect
“…….Israel’s anti-BDS forces are going after Jeremy Corbyn and other Labour candidates in the elections in the UK. At what point does this become unlawful interference by one country into another’s democratic process? Or does it?….”
That is about as blatant as it gets. Israel runs the British Parliament. Israel runs British foreign policy. Israel runs US foreign policy. Israel is behind the campaign to remove anti-Israel activists/anti-Jewish bigots from the British Labour Party. You gotta love the anti-racists racists of the extreme left promoting the same anti-Jewish canards that have existed for centuries which led in part to the Holocaust. Israel certainly didn’t force the anti-Semite Ken Livingston to say that Hitler “was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews.” Mona even called Adolph Eichmann a Zionist.
At the very least, you could address exactly where you get the information that Israel is “interfering” in the affairs of Britain – or what if anything that the Israel (Jewish) lobby is doing that is illegal. But don’t worry Presumptuous, you are not alone in your thinking (David Duke; November 7, 2014):
“………Donations from the Jewish tribalist lobby in Britain controls the British parliament, a new study issued by the UK-based Middle East Monitor (MEMO) has revealed……..”
The far left has come completely unraveled in their anti-Israel zeal promoting the same Jewish stereotypes as the far right.
Zionists are fucking depraved. Glenn just (again) banned my abuser and stalker, who harassed me thru my son. So, now he’s got a new account calling himself “her son.”
Every Zionist here knows what this foul man did to me; I’ve detaiuled several times. Not one has objected. Including Craig Summers who clearly sympathizes with such monstrous viciousness. Becasue, I “deserve it.”
Zionism curdles souls and turns human beings into depraved creatures worse than beasts.
Thought you might like this read…
http://btd.palestine-studies.org/content/introduction-last-days-ottoman-rule-1876-1918
That reflects the history I have read elsewhere, including in John Judis’ great book: Genesis: Truman, American Jews, and the Origins of the Arab/Israeli Conflict. Including this part:
A great deal of money from very wealthy Zionists made that possible. They purchased homes , farms and businesses and then declared the laborers to be “Jew only.”
Zionism was a monstrously racist and discriminatory enterprise from Day 1. Their writings up through WWII reveal many, many of them referring to the indigenous Arabs as “savages.”
Uuh? Herson is a town in Ukraine. It is spelled Kherson in English, however in Ukrainian/Russian it is ??????.
I note you are noisy and all over this site with very little substance. That’s OK. That’s what this outlet seems to be about.
Don’t be too paranoid…
You are depraved.
This outlet sits on 250 mln pieces of silver and it can’t hire a qualified programmer to fix fonts and the reply button. For JC sake, blogs have it.
You guys are Ward #6 (I am talking Chekhov), but I doubt any of you read it…
“Herson is a town in Ukraine.”
No, it is not. As you note, the English spelling is Kherson. The Russian and Ukrainian spellings are identical (not unusual, as Ukrainian is effectively a Russian dialect) and the transliteration would be something like XEPCOH (as you’ve noticed, the TI forum software doesn’t handle UTF-8 properly, so Cyrillic letters don’t render).
Shorter version: You’re lying as well as stalking.
Mona
“…….Every Zionist here knows what this foul man did to me; I’ve detaiuled several times. Not one has objected. Including Craig Summers who clearly sympathizes with such monstrous viciousness. Becasue, I “deserve it.”….”
Well Mona, you did accuse me of “stalking” you as well – so why should I believe a fucking thing you say? It has nothing to do whether I believe “you deserve it” or not. You are just not credible. In fact, you thrive on Zionists who personally attack you. Just look at your responses.
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
This has gone beyond even the usual behavior of the Zionist extremists; it is nothing less than cyber-stalking.
It might be time, or nearly so, to consider IP address tracking.
Yes Doug, the intent is to cause me emotional distress and harm, first by publicly organizing to call my adult son and his neighbors, and posting their contact information. And stating that I am an “antisemite” and my son and his neighbors should be told that I “support pedophiles.” And then to follow me over here.
It’s totally vicious. The closest thing like this that happened to me before was this rancid Zionist from the Guardian. He engaged me on Twitter, and told me he hoped that I was desperately ill and that my children had taken out a DNR order. (I can’t link to it because Twitter since has suspended his account for something else I don’t know anything about.)
I think Glenn or another member of the TI staff should research an article about the online viciousness of Zionists. Only the Gamergaters are worse.
Their behavior is outrageous and unconscionable, Mona. That they are, apparently, unashamed to engage in it is an ugly demonstration of the lengths to which rabid Zionist extremists are willing to go and, also, evidence of their tone deaf inability to understand the effects of their nastiness. They can’t seem to recognize the damage their viciousness is doing to their cause.
I agree with you that it is past time that this organized hatemongering receive the critical attention it deserves.
And have you seen Craig high-fiving them and lovingly telling them to “take care?” With his long-standing, full-throated endorsement of torture I (we) of course knew he was depraved, but now he’s dropping all pretense of being a civilized human being.
Yeah, Craig has apparently found soulmates in the recently-landed flock of nasties. It’s a new low, even for him.
yes they are. Lucifer’s li’l bots. Evil incarnate. And they have a boatload of nukes by which to threaten the rest of the planet.
THE BATTLE OF PRIORITIES IS ON
Zions in israel mean to bankrupt the United States of America. Zions have been sucking the blood and resources of the United States whereupon the US cannot repair or maintain infrastucture, water systems, sewer systems, bridges, roads, schools, common property ..
ZIONS WANT THE MONEY…. and PUERTO RICO NEEDS IT.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/279837-puerto-rico-debt-becomes-constitutional-fight-on-the-right
it is my wish that TI tackle this one because it will do more to show the contrast to all Americans what is really going on in DC that is killing America.
watch this space.
Israel’s anti-BDS forces are going after Jeremy Corbyn and other Labour candidates in the elections in the UK. At what point does this become unlawful interference by one country into another’s democratic process? Or does it?
From the article:
“The witch hunt against critics of Israel in Labour is continuing, despite the party doing better than expected in last week’s UK local elections, under the leadership of left-winger Jeremy Corbyn.
The latest victim of the purge is David White, secretary of Labour’s local party in Croydon, south London. White, a long-time leftist, was suspended after commenting on Twitter that former London mayor Ken Livingstone’s comments about historical support by the Nazi Party for the German Zionist movement were “largely accurate” though unfortunately put.
In the lead up to last week’s election, pro-Israel advocates and right-wing critics of Corbyn accelerated a campaign to fabricate and exaggerate claims of anti-Semitism within the party to weaponize the issue against Corbyn’s leadership.
The Electronic Intifada has learned that these efforts are increasingly focused on removing Corbyn’s supporters from the party’s ruling body, the National Executive Committee.”
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/how-jeremy-corbyns-enemies-are-gunning-labours-ruling-body
Personally, I love it when a chef cooks up something so delicious even the half-wit propagandists crawl out of the woodwork to spend their two cents.
Though your internationally acclaimed well-struck-nerve soufflé is always offered with exceptional humility, Chef Glenn, I for one also savor every reaction to your impeccable plating. Bravo!
Richard
“…….The sad thing is that because I had become so used to the habits of Israeli regime supporters of following a script that refuses to be varied by the claims having the obvious flaws and diversions from documented history pointed out to the posters again and again, in detail, in the simplest of language, with multiple independent sources cited…..”
I am open to discussion. Which historical documents do you want to discuss? You don’t mention any in your post so It’s hard to address what you are talking about. If you have a more specific complaint, let me know. But I must post this disclaimer first so Mona won’t sue me:
“……..SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Discussing politics with CraigSummers could lead to support for torture and authoritarianism, belief that war is the best form of diplomacy, drones terrorize the terrorists, and colonialism made the world a better place – and may complicate pregnancy…..”
Which historical documents do you want to discuss?
UN resolution 3379
Dr. Hajo Meyer
USS Liberty
the zion cult
24 march 1933
NAKBA
YINON PLAN for the middle east pulished 1984
wolf blitzer zionist
Zionism is a cult and a Transnational Organised Crime enterprise engaged in theft, terrorism, genocide, and war.
Zionistas make America a target by their victims.
Zionism will be made illegal.
The world is not fooled.
Mona, I agree, just about all the commenters who post the Israeli regime support on this and other sites are humans who are mimicking bots, rather than actual bots. Just as Birthers, antiVaaxers, Deniers, Nukers, Dumboncrime, and antiChoicers are humans who are just as passionate in ignoring facts, working themselves into an outrage over myths and the wrongs of those on the other side (wrongs that sometimes actually are wrongs, though they are so minor compared to the wrongs that are considered standard practice by the folks who scream the loudest about them it is rather like a murder expressing his contempt for the motorist who tried to block his getaway car by stopping in the middle of the road) and all the other nonsense that is part and parcel of supporting something that is, when you take a real look at it, indefensible. Indeed, in many ways, their unreasonableness and demonizing of everyone who doesn’t share their delusional views are the hallmarks of their humanity. It is an ironic artifact of the english language that the words for actions taken in support of such a part of what separates humans from animals are things like ‘inhuman’, and the words for those committing such are things like ‘animals’.
Well Richard, your post is much ado about nothing – just personal attacks with no substance. Personally. I think you are completely full of shit. I have posted quite a few comments on this thread. Now tell me where I went wrong on any of them.
Thanks.
Like Mona, it would appear Richard’s soul purpose here is to rant about Zionism. He didn’t address the article nor engage in debate. He just came and dumped his conspiracy theory.
It would Craig that this is not really a place that is open to free exchange and debate. It is a place for propaganda, conspiracy and bigotry.
“It is a place for propaganda, conspiracy and bigotry.”
That is Greenwald’s brand becoming crystal clear now that the Snowden’s fog has cleared.
How rich, given that you will not even attempt to directly>answer the following inquiry, put to you and other Zionists many times.
How could any liberal Western democracy be destroyed by the three planks of BDS, as Omar Barghouti set’s them forth in the interview above, to wit:
You won’t answer it now, either, because to do so would make clear that Israel is not a liberal Western democracy by any reasonable understanding of that concept. No other Zionist will do so, either.
When you answer the questions I asked you first I will be happy to answer any question you have.
Go back to my very first post on this thread. You didn’t respond except to use vulgarities and claim it was lies. Multiple requests to respond have fallen on deaf ears. All you have ever responded to in that post was what you thought Barghoutti. meant by collapse, which again is a matter of opinion. I backed up my opinion with additional quotes from Mr B. you did not.
Seriously Mona, I think you have some personal issues that you need to resolve. Your grandiosity, paranoia, and the need to make this thread about you makes me concerned about the state of your mental health.
Get some help and then come back and we can debate about I/P.
much ado about nothing?
whataboutery..
zionism is a crime against humanity; right or wrong?
zions are racists UN RESOLUTION 3379; right or wrong?
zions are anti-americanitic; right or wrong?
zions are anti-palestinitic; right or wrong?
zions are anti-semitic as they use Jewish persons as human shields; right or wrong?
DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK
whataboutery zionist israelis do-
???good or bad?
Having sympathy for israel can poison your soul and turn you into a racist and that is what nuttinyahuey is casting upon the earth. Nutty say “If hitler can do it so can we”.
whataboutery
Most ironic, given that the depraved asshole who is stalking me calls Palestinians “animals.” His other choices have included “things” and “barbaric savages that can’t be negotiated with.”
As I said, I have no intention of letting them run me out of here. I’ll meet their foul bullshit every time they come back after being (yet again) banned. Moreover, I will make sure readers are directed to the substantive comments every time they attempt to crapflood the real discussion out of existence.
And thank you, Richard, for your contributions to a rational discussion.
253 and counting
Of course, Mona’ posts are worth reading. Your name is the signal for the eye to skip to the next comment.
“Your name is the signal for the eye to skip to the next comment.”
Well, yes, except that we have to remember to let him know, now and then, that his endless, mean-spirited, long-form trolling is offensive.
You know what would be nice? Not an ignore button, but a way to flag our preferred commenters so that it is easy to skip past the bigots and bloviators.
You’re counting? I hate to judge the amusements of others, but you badly need a life.
I assume that anyone still posting on this thread is a robot. Which is disappointing; the quality of discourse is barely above human standards. According to Moore’s Law, artificial intelligence should have surpassed human intelligence at least a decade ago. By now, intractable problems such as Israel-Palestine should have been trivial for an ‘ai’ to solve.
Maybe artificial intelligence has been overhyped. Perhaps humans are incapable of the insight needed to escape their own intellectual limitations. So artificial intelligence will remain nothing but an imitation of the human kind, able to reach decisions more quickly, but unable to fundamentally improve the quality of those decisions.
So on these threads, you’ll see the same responses back and forth, the only difference being they are posted at faster and faster speeds.
It’s my “fault” in the sense that the hasbara trolls followed me here to continue harassing me, and to destroy the comments here. It appears that the powers that be just did some pest control and banned yet another batch of this vile pack’s accounts.
I refuse to let them chase me out of here. They’ll come back and keep trying then patience of the TI staff that tends to the comment-space hygiene.
That’s just how Zionists roll. They are the most viciously annoying online cohort, second only to the Gamergaters.
Mona name appears 246 times on this thread – and counting.
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
this is one for the books.
israelis are so afraid of what Omar Barghouti that they will keep posting here ENDLESSLY to bury it and have the last word until it becomes closed.
The zions have a job position for doing this sort of thing. It is regular employment as a “something” (i cant recall).
>”I assume that anyone still posting on this thread is a robot.”
Human tissue over metal alloy, benitoe.
BDS head draws fire after defending ‘Shoot the Jew’ chant
n anti-Israel rally at a South African University that saw protesters chanting “Shoot the Jew,” which was subsequently defended by the head of the country’s BDS movement, drew widespread condemnation.
Both backers and critics of the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement in South Africa criticized the group’s leader for supporting activists at the Witwatersrand University rally who sang a modified version of the 1980s anti-apartheid song “Shoot the Boer,” the Mail and Guardian reported Monday.
Some members of the BDS movement, which supports a boycott of Israeli products as part of its pro-Palestinian stance, “made it clear they don’t think it’s a remotely acceptable slogan,” Prof. Steven Friedman, who teaches at both Rhodes University and the University of Johannesburg — and who supports the boycott idea, in addition to calling for a one-state solution — told the news site.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/bds-head-draws-fire-after-defending-shoot-the-jew-chant/
As you scroll through the deluge of claims by supporters of the Israeli regime, ask yourself this. If they were part of a Turing test, would you be labelling them as human, or just preprogrammed, packaged responses attempting to fake having a human mind? I actually have encountered, on the CBC news website, a bot that was doing just that. The sad thing is that because I had become so used to the habits of Israeli regime supporters of following a script that refuses to be varied by the claims having the obvious flaws and diversions from documented history pointed out to the posters again and again, in detail, in the simplest of language, with multiple independent sources cited, it took not one, but two obvious machine generated glitch responses before I realized it actually wasn’t the usual sort of willfully blind, fact averse Israeli regime supporter.
Lucifer has a very sophisticated bot army. He has the capability of implanting a virus into the human operating system. Once “botted”, the human reverts to the old “kill people take land” mercenary style of conquering. Not sure what the torjan horse was to gain initial entry. But the “you done god’s work” narrative sure makes the bots feel better about genocide.
I can’t speak for Richard and Mona, barabbas, but I for one take great comfort in the fact that you are on their side.
See now my experience has been quite the opposite. My posts which, unlike yours for example, actually address the article, have been met with what certainly could be programmed responses. The responses consisted of calling me a liar, my repeated requests to have these lies stated were met with a chorus of claims of “whataboutery”. My guess is the program automatically does this after evidence of the original claim is asked for. Then of course there is the poster who posts not in response to anything lists of “zionist conspiracy” theories which interestingly enough are similar to age old troupes about Jews like how they control the money supply. I’m guessing the program shoots these out at preset periods to provide cover for those seeking to avoid answering direct questions. Then there are the frequent “summary” posts which take all the propaganda and put it under on link to allow easy access for the cut and past crowd to reuse them.
Well Richard I be curious for you to point out examples that you have found that cause you to believe there are computer generated responses from the supporters of Israel. Although I won’t be surprised if your answer to me, rather than answer my question, will be to yell about whataboutery or some other hackneyed expression.
GilGamesh lies some more
I gave you a very specific example of one of your lies. In a separate reply I’ll give you another lie I called you on.
Moreover, I replied in a standalone post, extensively showing what whataboutery is, that you commit it constantly, and that it is among the favorite Zionist fallacies. I document every fact claim I make, or offer to do so upon good faith request.
Zionist hasbara is, depending on the hasbara-ist, all or some of: Vicious name-calling; replete with lies; flood of garbage intended to destroy the discussion; suffused with various fallacies, and; vile anti-Muslim bigotry. You most certainly are not an exception.
Not a lie Mona simply a difference of opinion on what Barghouti meant by collapse . I actually provided more evidence to back up my claim. You did not and went back to the pre-programmed “whataboutary” response.
Go back to my first post which you claimed were all lies and tell me what they were. Let’s see if you can do that.
No. A lie. Pursuit of the three goals of BDS cannot “destroy” a liberal Western democracy, no matter what other words of Barghouti’s you choose to glom onto in order to evade answering the question.
Neither you nor any other Zionist has ever been willing to directly answer this question:
How could any liberal Western democracy be destroyed by the three planks of BDS, as Omar Barghouti set’s them forth in the interview above, to wit:
You won’t answer it now, either, because to do so would make clear that Israel is not a liberal Western democracy by any reasonable understanding of that concept.
Another correction of a GilGamesh lie.
Again not a lie. You are 0 -2 and still haven’t been able to cite one thing in my original post factually wrong. Yet you had no problem vulgarly terming it “bullshit” and all lies.
Perhaps not. A lie must be false information communicated when known to be false.
It’s possible, perhaps even probably, that many hardcore Zionist have cultivated an ability not to recognize it when they are communicating false information. Scientologists are often so afflicted.
BTW there is one more thing I forgot to mention which points to the robots being the anti-Israel ones. They are always here. I mean who spends their entire life posting. Certainly not a human being with a real life. I mean many of these “people” claim to be activists and yet their entire existence is spent on this board, so how could they possibly be human? I mean real people have a social life and go out on Saturday nights right?
Yup, especially me. There is a great, smart, well-informed core of readers/commenters who have been in Glenn Greenwald’s commenting space since he began blogging in ’05. I am among them. (So is Gator — who began participating as a Zionist; he isn’t one now. Gator never pulled the hasbara bullshit so many of you do. He’s intellectually honest and moral. Which is why he is no longer a Zionist.)
Some of these we have picked up as Glenn’s career took off ever-higher. We followed him to Salon, then to the Guardian, and now here.
And we aren’t going any where.
“And we aren’t going any where.”
Haven’t seen this Gator fellow Mona but I am sure as I pointed out above you wouldn’t be found anywhere else. At last something we can agree on.
Then you are not reading all the comments in this thread. He’s participating.
Now on THAT you truly could not be more wrong. It was my participation elsewhere that caused me to see and suffer the most vicious and depraved Zionist behavior I personally have encountered, behavior that included a real life attack on me through my adult son. The primary asshole has followed me over here along with one or two of his pals.
There is a good reason I so often deploy words such as “vile,” “vicious,” and “depraved” to describe Zionists: The words are utterly accurate.
I’m sorry you had that experience, although you are being pretty vague about what, where and when that experience was. It is also clear that it was sometime in the past and currently you have no other activity then this board. Whatever your experience might have been that that is no excuse to tarnish all Zionists with the same brush. It’s common for bigots to be able to cite a case of one person doing something to bad to them and drawing the conclusion that because one person behaved in such a manner that all members of that group behave in the same manner. Bigots will always use an incident as the excuse for their bigotry. Bigots will always have names for the groups they hate. I bet next you will tell me you have a friend that is a Zionist.
You are foul. It is recent, and now he’s here again. Most recently calling himself “her son.” Zionists are depraved.
Most of these are real humans, who followed me here from another site, where they were banned for attacking me in real life through my adult son.
Max Blumenthal has said Zionism destroys Palestinian bodies and Jewish souls. One sees evidence of that here in the comments of every article touching on Israel.
zionism is a crime against humanity
zions are racists UN RESOLUTION 3379
zions are anti-americanitic
zions are anti-palestinitic
zions are anti-semitic as they use Jewish persons as human shields
israel’s new tourist attraction – hunting humans DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK
Having sympathy for israel can poison your soul and turn you into a racist and that is what nuttinyahuey is casting upon the earth. Nutty say “If hitler can do it so can we”.
According to Nuttinyowza, killing and maiming children is not a crime against humanity. DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK
Zions will kill anyone for their land and home because according to the zions- god gave it to them. i dont know, nuttinfakker hasn’t showed the world his direct line red phone to god nor provided us with a video of his conversation with god. But he does have a cult of believers and you know how genocidal cults can be. Doesnt nutty remind us of cheney? Didnt cheney try the same thing in iraq? Or was he under orders by nuttinmassa?
Alan Dershowitz: BDS is
anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, anti-human rights, anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-negotiation, anti-peace, anti-compromise, and anti-Palestinian workers when they are denied opportunities to work.
The BDS movement has extended its evil antennas to the academic world, attempting to bring an academic boycott against Israelis. Dershowitz responded by writing a letter with Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Weinberg. He explained, “We wrote to about fifty of our colleagues. Since we both hold honorary degrees from Israeli universities we emphasized if you boycott Israeli academics you must boycott us. We got 11,000 signatures of scholars from around the world declaring themselves Israeli academics.”
Unfortunately, one such academic, Stephen Hawking, supports the BDS movement. Dershowitz called him out, “I realized people can be really smart in physics and really dumb in politics. I challenged him to debate and promised him I would not use as part of my argument the fact that the machine he uses to advocate BDS is made and manufactured in Israel.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/04/alan_dershowitz_talks_about_bds.html
BDS IS
anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, anti-human rights, anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-negotiation, anti-peace, anti-compromise, and anti-Palestinian workers when they are denied opportunities to work
The BDS movement has extended its evil antennas to the academic world, attempting to bring an academic boycott against Israelis. Dershowitz responded by writing a letter with Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Weinberg. He explained, “We wrote to about fifty of our colleagues. Since we both hold honorary degrees from Israeli universities we emphasized if you boycott Israeli academics you must boycott us. We got 11,000 signatures of scholars from around the world declaring themselves Israeli academics.”
Unfortunately, one such academic, Stephen Hawking, supports the BDS movement. Dershowitz called him out, “I realized people can be really smart in physics and really dumb in politics. I challenged him to debate and promised him I would not use as part of my argument the fact that the machine he uses to advocate BDS is made and manufactured in Israel.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/04/alan_dershowitz_talks_about_bds.html
The Arabs’ Real Grievance against the Jews
The Arab world still does not today accept the concept of a Jewish state of any size or any shape. Even Egypt and Jordan, who signed peace agreements with Israel, do not accept that Israel is a Jewish state, and they continue to promote anti-Semitic hatred against Israel.
During Israel’s War of Independence, Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem, and in the years that followed, they were ethnically cleansed from the rest of the Arab world.
Jews demand the right to exist, and to exist as equals, on the land where they have existed and belonged continuously for more than three thousand years.
We would rather claim that the conflict is about “occupation” and “settlements.” The Jews see what radical Islamists are now doing to Christians and other minorities, who were also in the Middle East for thousands of years before the Muslim Prophet Mohammed was even born.
The real Arab grievance against the Jews is that they exist.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7953/arabs-jews
Readers: the “mokasien” account is a hasbara troll. Here to disrupt by posting a flood of crap so you don’t engage or read further. Please scroll down and past this junk — there is great deal of useful information in the comments.
PLAGIARISM
Mona is disingenuous in her zealotry to define the Zionists based on select quotes in the way she wants Zionism to be viewed. Calling Adolph Eichmann a Zionist was a classic mistake on her part, but it did serve to expose her agenda. In that sense, Mona is no different than Omar Barghouti as a propagandist (and liar).
Mona continually post quotes of different Zionist leaders to show that Zionism is a fascist movement or collaborated with the Nazis and so on. There is no attempt to provide context to any of the quotes. So Mona constantly uses these quotes to “prove” a point about Zionism. One such case is when Mona writes about David Ben Gurion (from one of her links):
“……….And make no mistake, Zionism is ultra-nationalism, and not a mere safe harbor for Jews. The latter was never primary for political Zionists, as David Ben-Gurion made clear in 1938……”
Mona uses a quote from Ben Gurion in 1938 to “prove” her point (taken from an article in Mondoweiss):
“………David Ben-Gurion’s words to the Mapai committee in 1938 reveal how the national aspect could supersede the humanitarian concern to actual people: ”If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel…..”
What drives Ben-Gurion is not ultra-nationalism in the sense that the above quote suggests (not superseding a Jewish safe harbor), but the idea that “only a Jewish state could provide an enduring and authentic resolution to the Jewish question. Any rescue operation outside the Zionist framework was – in Ben-Gurion’s words – ”witch doctor’s medicine” that would only perpetuate the misery of the Jewish people…..”.
So the call for a Jewish Home was driven by the antisemitism prevalent in Europe at the time including pogroms in Eastern Europe where tens of thousands of Jews were slaughtered. If it was ultra-nationalism, it was because Zionists believed that Jews were not safe anywhere else. The Holocaust only reinforced that Ben-Gurion was right. You will never see this kind of information form Mona.
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
“…….Many here have long told me they appreciate the information I provide and document; only the rabid Zionist who detest my facts call me a “troll.”.Craig and the Zionists here really detest my knowledge and that it is virtually always (and often, incontestably) documented……”
Incontestably indeed! It’s just one more “document” destroyed. I agree with your decision to avoid responding to my post.
zionism is a crime against humanity
zions are racists UN RESOLUTION 3379
zions are anti-americanitic
zions are anti-palestinitic
zions are anti-semitic as they use Jewish persons as human shields
israel’s new tourist attraction – hunting humans DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK
Having sympathy for israel can poison your soul and turn you into a racist and that is what nuttinyahuey is casting upon the earth. Nutty say “If hitler can do it so can we”.