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Brazil today awoke to stunning news of secret, genuinely shocking conversations involving a key minister in Brazil’s newly installed government, which shine a bright light on the actual motives and participants driving the impeachment of the country’s democratically elected president, Dilma Rousseff. The transcripts were published by the country’s largest newspaper, Folha de São Paulo, and reveal secret conversations that took place in March, just weeks before the impeachment vote in the lower house was held. They show explicit plotting between the new planning minister (then-senator), Romero Jucá, and former oil executive Sergio Machado — both of whom are formal targets of the “Car Wash” corruption investigation — as they agree that removing Dilma is the only means for ending the corruption investigation. The conversations also include discussions of the important role played in Dilma’s removal by the most powerful national institutions, including — most importantly — Brazil’s military leaders.
The transcripts are filled with profoundly incriminating statements about the real goals of impeachment and who was behind it. The crux of this plot is what Jucá calls “a national pact” — involving all of Brazil’s most powerful institutions — to leave Michel Temer in place as president (notwithstanding his multiple corruption scandals) and to kill the corruption investigation once Dilma is removed. In the words of Folha, Jucá made clear that impeachment will “end the pressure from the media and other sectors to continue the Car Wash investigation.” Jucá is the leader of Temer’s PMDB party and one of the “interim president’s” three closest confidants.
It is unclear who is responsible for recording and leaking the 75-minute conversation, but Folha reports that the files are currently in the hand of the prosecutor general. The next few hours and days will likely see new revelations that will shed additional light on the implications and meaning of these transcripts.
The transcripts contain two extraordinary revelations that should lead all media outlets to seriously consider whether they should call what took place in Brazil a “coup”: a term Dilma and her supporters have used for months. When discussing the plot to remove Dilma as a means of ending the Car Wash investigation, Jucá said the Brazilian military is supporting the plot: “I am talking to the generals, the military commanders. They are fine with this, they said they will guarantee it.” He also said the military is “monitoring the Landless Workers Movement” (Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra, or MST), the social movement of rural workers that supports PT’s efforts of land reform and inequality reduction and has led the protests against impeachment.
The second blockbuster revelation — perhaps even more significant — is Jucá’s statement that he spoke with and secured the involvement of numerous justices on Brazil’s Supreme Court, the institution that impeachment defenders have repeatedly pointed to as vesting the process with legitimacy in order to deny that Dilma’s removal is a coup. Jucá claimed that “there are only a small number” of Court justices to whom he had not obtained access (the only justice he said he ultimately could not get to is Teori Zavascki, who was appointed by Dilma and who — notably — Jucá viewed as incorruptible in obtaining his help to kill the investigation (a central irony of impeachment is that Dilma has protected the Car Wash investigation from interference by those who want to impeach her)). The transcripts also show him saying that “the press wants to take her [Dilma] out,” so “this shit will never stop” — meaning the corruption investigations — until she’s gone.
The transcripts provide proof for virtually every suspicion and accusation impeachment opponents have long expressed about those plotting to remove Dilma from office. For months, supporters of Brazil’s democracy have made two arguments about the attempt to remove the country’s democratically elected president: (1) the core purpose of Dilma’s impeachment is not to stop corruption or punish lawbreaking, but rather the exact opposite: to protect the actual thieves by empowering them with Dilma’s exit, thus enabling them to kill the Car Wash investigation; and (2) the impeachment advocates (led by the country’s oligarchical media) have zero interest in clean government, but only in seizing power that they could never obtain democratically, in order to impose a right-wing, oligarch-serving agenda that the Brazilian population would never accept.
The first two weeks of Temer’s newly installed government provided abundant evidence for both of these claims. He appointed multiple ministers directly implicated in corruption scandals. A key ally in the lower house who will lead his government’s coalition there — André Moura — is one of the most corrupt politicians in the country, the target of multiple, active criminal probes not only for corruption but also attempted homicide. Temer himself is deeply enmeshed in corruption (he faces an eight-year ban on running for any office) and is rushing to implement a series of radical right-wing changes that Brazilians would never democratically allow, including measures, as The Guardian detailed, “to soften the definition of slavery, roll back the demarcation of indigenous land, trim housebuilding programs and sell off state assets in airports, utilities and the post office.”But, unlike the events of the last two weeks, these transcripts are not merely clues or signs. They are proof: proof that the prime forces behind the removal of the president understood that taking her out was the only way to save themselves and shield their own extreme corruption from accountability; proof that Brazil’s military, its dominant media outlets, and its Supreme Court were colluding in secret to ensure the removal of the democratically elected president; proof that the perpetrators of impeachment viewed Dilma’s continued presence in Brasilia as the guarantor that the Car Wash investigations would continue; proof that this had nothing to do with preserving Brazilian democracy and everything to do with destroying it.
For his part, Jucá admits that these transcripts are authentic but insists it was all just a misunderstanding with his comments taken out of context, calling it “banal.” “That conversation is not about a pact for Car Wash. It’s about the economy, to extricate Brazil from the crisis,” he claimed in an interview this morning with UOL political blogger Fernando Rodrigues. That explanation is entirely implausible given what he actually said, as well as the explicitly conspiratorial nature of the conversations, in which Jucá insists on a series of one-on-one encounters, rather than meeting in a group, all to avoid provoking suspicions. Political leaders are already calling for his resignation from the government.
Ever since Temer’s installation as president, Brazil has seen intense, and growing, protests against him. Brazilian media outlets — which have been desperately trying to glorify him — have suspiciously refrained from publishing polling data for many weeks, but the last polls show him with only 2 percent support and 60 percent wanting him impeached. The only recent published polling data showed that 66 percent of Brazilians believe legislators voted for impeachment only out of self-interest — a belief these transcripts validate — while only 23 percent believe they did so for the good of the country. Last night in São Paulo, police were forced to barricade the street where Temer’s house is located due to thousands of protesters heading there; they eventually used fire hoses and tear gas. An announcement to close the Ministry of Culture led to artists and others occupying offices around the country in protest, which forced Temer to reverse the decision.
Until now, The Intercept, like most international media outlets, has refrained from using the word “coup” even as it (along with most outlets) has been deeply critical of Dilma’s removal as anti-democratic. These transcripts compel a re-examination of that editorial decision, particularly if no evidence emerges calling into question either the most reasonable meaning of Jucá’s statements or his level of knowledge. This newly revealed plotting is exactly what a coup looks, sounds, and smells like: securing the cooperation of the military and most powerful institutions to remove a democratically elected leader for self-interested, corrupt, and lawless motives, in order to then impose an oligarch-serving agenda that the population despises.
If Dilma’s impeachment remains inevitable, as many believe, these transcripts will make it much more difficult to leave Temer in place. Recent polling data shows that 62 percent of Brazilians want new elections to select their president. That option — the democratic one — is the one Brazil’s elites fear most, because they are petrified (with good reason) that Lula or another candidate they dislike (Marina Silva) will win. But that’s the point: If what is being avoided and smashed in Brazil is democracy, then it’s time to start using the proper language to describe this. These transcripts make it increasingly difficult for media outlets to avoid doing so.
Related:
And who but the most powerful people in the world, the owners of the USA, would benefit from this coup? This is being driven by the oligarch’s, for the oligarch’s, as is everything happening on our planet today. Oh, and do not forget their buddies in power; the military! I would really like to see some reporting that riles me up about what is happening in our nation and our world. We all need to be out in the street protesting the destruction of our democracy and the imposition of an oligarich economy that benefits only .001% of the people on this planet.! Real journalism will get us out and into the street if it is done right!
Naquelas torres gêmeas do planalto central, um foro nacional, dito de representação do povo e da nação… Que nada!
Casa do povo, casa da ‘tia’ Zezé. Casa do povo é o carai!
É uma putaria!
Mas os ânus são sempre os nossos.
Uma orgia, uma suruba, um bacanal e a gente só entra de ré, já arregaçados, estuprados, fodidos.
O bacanal não só não acabou mas como abriu muitas filiais!
Muita orgia no bordel Brazil!
E o que é o pior?
O ânus é sempre o nosso, esculachado, esculhambado, arregaçado, escrachado.
>> https://gustavohorta.wordpress.com/2016/05/29/esculacha-esculhamba-escracha-arregaca-pois-sou-mesmo-um-babaca-de-merda-alem-do-mais-isto-aqui-virou-mesmo-um-bordel-um-bacanal/
This conspiracy site is really misusing your story…
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message3187588/pg1
What this coup also does is remove the B from BRICS.
My guess is the US Government also had a hand in the coup.
Once again (and again), we observe the result of government interference in an economy. Call it right- or left-wing; does not matter. Either way, interference is doomed to fail. Government cannot react as quickly as the market to ups and downs. Add to slow and probably incompetent government tampering the redistribution of wealth, and expect results as in Venezuela, Greece, now Brazil and, in the long run, the U.S.
Politicians are concerned with the near-term (elections). They manipulate an economy to gain the short-term appearance of prosperity for political purposes. Economists are usually concerned with the long-term and wisely shrug off near-term expansions/contractions of an economy.
I agree that a market free of government interference often appears “unfair”. A free market rarely destroys an entire nation, however. Politicians simply direct “unfairness” away from themselves and their buddies.
Hail to the 1% to steal everything from the outgunned! Remind WETHEPEOPLE..– it is when the Economic forces disrupt the WETHEPEOPLE –> Brazil, Honduras, etc because it is good for labor to share, sweat, and die but the 1% cannot STOP stealing!Of course the 1% get the best, the all of the communities’ infrastructures as education, roads, water,etc! You cannot cite a Freemarket “rarely destroys an entire nation” because what you describe is a known disease that people recognize and try to limit and contain in some way, so they do todifferent degrees. And yes, governe,nts have made mistakes in their planning and actions and the1%FMers are always in the process of rotand destruction! It is OUT vile jelly!!
Who’s gonna buy that, capitalist
It is a coup d’état.
In recent weeks, revealed politicians recordings personally attached interim president Michel Temmer simply unmask the coup plot made by Temmer, the Brazilian media, the legislature and judiciary sectors. Here is a summary of what was found in the recorded conversations between parliamentarians:
1) Michel would be the articulator of a great national agreement to halt the investigation of the operation “Wash Jet”. This agreement would include the Supreme Court.
2) The press (Globo TV) attack Rousseff with everyday matters in prime time until it was overthrown.
3) The Supreme Court was open to any negotiations with parliamentary favorable to the coup. All ministers was Dilma Rousseff of anger for not having accepted the increase in judicial salaries.
4) According to the parliamentary coup the military would have already made available to contain the uprising of the civilian population.
5) Former President of Brazil Jose Sarney and Senate President Renan Calheiros formalize agreement in writing to advance the Impeachment and stop the car wash.
6) Eduardo Cunha away for being accused of stealing $ 100 million from public coffers and accused the Lava-jet operation, is the great mentor of interim president Michel Temmer. Parliamentarians clearly say, “Michel Cunha and Cunha is Michel.”
7) Aécio Neves, the main name of the Opposition, articulator of Impeachment, and Rousseff’s rival in the last presidential elections, according to lawmakers because of his crimes “will be the first to be eaten”, “it is vulnerabilíssimo” and “is scared to death get caught”.
8) Other opposition names: José Serra (Current Chancellor), Aloisio Nunes and Tasso Jereisssati all parliamentarians PSDB party Fernando Henrique Cardoso would be sure they would be arrested.
9) Odebreacht, Queiroz Galvao and Camargo Correa: Contractors who enter the winning vigilantism would have the potential to overthrow the Brazilian Republic.
As we see. It is a coup d’état. The first measures of the interim government include the imposition of labor reform measures that have already been defeated four times in general elections in Brazil. And a redistribution of national wealth mainly Brazilian oil. It is a coup. There is no legal certainty in a country that drops a president under the most banal arguments, and a mere trial judge is able to break a commercial contract for legal incompatibility. In Brazil there is no democracy. A major eruption occur in the Olympics. Wait.
But wait, it gets worse! Now Renan Calheiros and José Sarney are also on the wire[1].
So the real question is: what’s up with Grupo Folha[2]? Did they break with Globo[3] et al to expose the media-backed coup? If so, can we expect a Battle of the Corporate Media Titans?
Or has the Brazilian media oligopoly broken with their political pawns? Stay tuned …
[1]: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/26/brazil-senate-head-recorded-proposing-weaken-bribes-investigation
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_Folha
[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_Globo
Am afraid there is still
more garbage to come by and my question is: who will be benefited by the disclosure of these conversations now?Who is behind it? Meanwhile, we, the Brazilian People, will do all we can to bring back Democracy. Fora Temer!
Another interpretation of events from Pepe Escobar:
http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20160524/1040180698/brazil-latam-banana-republic.html
Now that the contents of the recordings are becoming clearer, it seems that the pact was not about the impeachment, but rather to try to keep these people out of Car Wash investigations… including Mr. Lula itself. Hmmmm
Of course it’s all about auto interessa, acima de tudo. That was clear from the start. And it’s still clear Dilma’s impeachment on bogus grounds is all about saving the golpista’s own arses.
Congratulations to the “theintercept” for this amazing and clear analysis about the situation here in Brazil.
Since the beginning, you guys have been following the facts, having a non-partial analysis on this unbelievable coup that’s on course.
Keep doing that. Looking for us outside our country. Cause our hope on Justice (which supposed to be blind), don’t exists anymore.
We, good citizens don’t know where to run.
Thanks for the honest and brilliant service you’re providing us.
A.C.N.
In american – Trump
In Brazil – Bolsonaro
The cry is free
… those guys( as Bolsomito above) who put Mendoncinha as ministry of education…and then choose to chat with alexandre frota for ‘ideas’…..
In American
These Brazilian political opportunists do not understand “American values”.
If you want to pull off a coup d’état you need to do it more strategically, first establish and build upon corporate personhood rights, build a US type propaganda delivering system that people like Joseph Goebbels adapted, lay out a plan as effective as the Powell Memo, follow it with Reaganomics, buy off the supposed party of the people to complete the Coup, and there you have it “True American Innovation”.
That is the coup model, with American Innovation & Values® and all that. But unlike in the US, most contemporary BR voters refuse to wrap it up with a pretty electoral majority.
The marketing strategy was brilliant of course, like all US marketing sector product. Maybe things are not going as smoothly as hoped because so many voters here are simply too destitute and uncomfortable to afford a thorough brainwashing, no matter how admirably strenuous Globo’s efforts have been. But don’t fret. History shows Brazil’s garchs usually get what they want, whatever it takes.
More popcorn please. Hold the torture.
Brazilian people are not resisting because we’re “too destitute”. It is because Lula’s and Dilma’s government gave us free higher education (I know this is hard for American people to understand, since you have to pay for your studies till death), and better quality of life.
On the other hand, the brazilian medium class isn’t brainwashed, they just think they’re white and rich – and, like this, they think they would gain benefits in a neoliberal system. They can’t recognize themselves as a type of working class because they believe that traveling to NY or Paris twice a year, and buying an Iphone is a big thing (they die for the american lifestyle). Conclusion: They’re ignorant assholes because they refuse to see that the confortable life they have today is also due to Lula’s government, and that a neoliberal system would affect them too.
And, well, Temer and cia started their power far from “getting what they want”. Brazil’s population is conscious and will remain like this.
Torture 54 millions? I don’t think this is going to happen. We have internet and the Olympics are comming. Imagine how beautiful would be to see protest signs and youtube videos accusing the government of torture?
The putschists lost the game already. The end.
Me: “Maybe things are not going as smoothly as hoped…”
What I mean is that the golpistas seem to be taken a little by surprise by the number of people who will not shut up — the number of people who are not going along. So am I.
You: “On the other hand, the brazilian medium class isn’t brainwashed…”
Putting it crudely, there are different categories of middle class here, as you know. Many I’ve known here since 1999 are enamored with neo-liberal theology. (I know many business people and business school students here in Sao Paulo. I am referring to them.) Given the deleterious affects of neo-liberal bullshit it is fair to say middle class people banging pots and pans against their own interests are brainwashed. I’m not talking about the new class ‘C’, I’m referring to middle class people who detest class ‘C’ and want it obliterated. Do you know what I mean? I think you do. Of course no reasonable person would make generalizations about ‘all’ this demographic and ‘all’ that demographic, but the outliers wihtin more comfortable middle class and wealthy families are extremely rare. Maybe my sarcasm was not clear to you — no fault of your own.
As for the torture remark: I was referring to my own torture experiences, spanning about fifteen years, at the hands of Americans and rented Brazilians, but you couldn’t know that from my snark. Look up what Zersetzung was all about in the DDR, COINTELPRO in the US, put that together with US lunacy since 2001 along with the NSA’s customer list, and you may begin to comprehend what has been happening to many Americans who refused to have a murderous, psychotic episode too. I have also been physically tortured here in Sao Paulo by a few of the Rental-Brazilians I just mentioned — in a medical lab on Rua Marselhesa (6-May-2009). They also plied their trade on me in a nearby barbershop (R. Dr. Renato Paes de Barros @ 3:15pm, 10-Sep-2014). Of course they can’t torture 54 million people. Learning image-conscious tactics from the DDR’s Stasi, they single out fewer for a special, covert treatment (it’s outright murder) which convinces the other millions that torture (extra-judicial, slow, quiet execution) does not happen under their noses, which is of course absurd. Think about it. It is not possible that any country engaged in perpetual war is not perpetually torturing its dissidents. (This is where Mona cum Craig does its thing.) Hope that’s clear now.
“The putschists lost the game already. The end.”
Of course I hope you are right, for your sake and mine, but there is no precedent.
Brazil being a ‘democracy’ was a stretch of the imagination even before this – the social apartheid affecting particularly the poor and black while the rich live in gated communities protected by armed guards has been pretty much institutionalized in spite of modest progress.
Brazilians voted for Dilma. Dilma has to get back on her place: the goverment. Temer is investigated for reap ilegal money on a etanol negotiation and his ministers, old-white and also processed men, are also investigated. The same ones that was agaisnt Lula being a Minister of Dilma. Thats a coup. A big one that aims the brazilian oil and the brazilian graphite, raw material of graphene. The most relevant: It has not been proven any crime committed by Dilma. And that define a coup, a danger one. Dilma has to get back, quickly.
Brazilians voted for Collor. Brazilians voted for Temer. Brazilians votes for the Senate. Brazilians voted for members of parliament.
Dilma is not directly involved in corruption indeed (so far), but she committed a crime of responsibility, which is clearly stated in the Constitution. As the president of the nation, that is as serious as a common crime.
Remember that Al Capone was jailed for evading taxes…
@Luciano: “[Dilma Rousseff] committed a crime of responsibility, which is clearly stated in the Constitution.”
False: Rousseff is accused only of moving funds out of one public account into another, and then moving them back. Nowhere is that stated in the Brazilian Constitution as of 2016[1].
@Luciano: “As the president of the nation, that is as serious as a common crime.”
Perhaps on Planet Luciano, but not here on Earth.
[1]: English: http://bd.camara.gov.br/bd/bitstream/handle/bdcamara/1344/constituicao_ingles_4ed.pdf ; Portuguese: http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/Constituicao/Constituicao.htm
False: Rousseff is accused only of moving funds out of one public account into another, and then moving them back. Nowhere is that stated in the Brazilian Constitution as of 2016[1].
This was done in very significant amounts of money. Using state companies as your own bank account to cover up holes prior to the election.
This falls under the definition of a crime of responsibility. You referencing the constitution doesn’t change that.
But having Senators “securing votes on the Supreme court” was not on the referendum.
And, Brazillian people voting for those Senators does not guarantee that those Senators will get to betray the Brazillian people and get away with it.
How do we characterize events in Brazil (and analogous events in so many countries around the world), except to say that the peoples’ struggle to achieve honest governance–and those who would block reform–is quite the drama being played out on the global stage. How odd, how regrettable, that the old guard behaves as if nothing has changed.
Not sure if Dilma returns, but the exposed sham coup has clearly made her either a Heroine or a Martyr. I think the PT (and their socialist allies) needed a wake-up call to fight the neo-liberal insurrection and front some real leaders. Lula could have some strong words about who such leaders might be, but he and Dilma need to fade into the background as the povo choose who will guide them to a better future.
I think the possibility of a return to a military dictatorship is still remote, despite the ominous sentiment in the transcript, but if the US keeps tweaking the BRICS, I don’t think it’s going to be the leftists running from the gas and batons. The military police is a pretty proud group, the most elite are portrayed as almost vigilante-like in their extra-legal pursuit of corrupt scum of any class. They have a different relationship with the poor than the police in the US. There’s more respect for the right to protest, a culture that avoids street action turning to violence. I think it’s Game Over for the oligarchy. Stay firm, Brazilian brother and sisters.
Transcripts are a shame. Dilma will be back soon! This fake government is a joke, but, if you would prefer a tragedy.
Well done Glen, David, and Andrew…much faith in ya’ll and I pray for your safety in all aspects.
Please ban a troll on… https://theintercept.com/2016/05/19/watch-first-interview-with-brazils-president-dilma-rousseff-since-the-senates-impeachment-vote/?comments=1#comments that goes by the name Chef Mueller. Thanks
Also there is this interview by Press TV and it reveals NSA involvement…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxeNJh8K-MU Brazil’s Acting President Gave Sensitive Briefings to US
Viva Brazilians…take back your country. Without your vast environment the world will suffer. STOP deforestation and the big corps that want to exploit all of your resources.
here! hear! or vice versa
deforestation and icecap melts will yield 300mph winds and storms of unbelievable simension. It is the forests that absorb the force of wind and act as the shock absorbers for storms all over the planet.
America has lost i hear 90% of its ancient forest. Now there are big tornadoes everywhere. WE NEED THE TREES.
They (the trees) also cause the rain to come, hold the ground in stability, and cause an ecosystem that can only survive with them, to include animals and us. What comes without them…are drought and famine. Like the kidneys are to the human body, the Brazilian Rain Forest act like the kidneys for the world…and nothing can live without them. When the earths ecosystem which is totally interconnected (like the human body) is compromised…its death (unless reversed) comes closer.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/01/amazon-rain-forest/wallace-text
Last of the Amazon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cEwIHDe7_s
Amazon Rainforest Documentary
http://theykilledsisterdorothy.com/flash.html
They Killed Sister Dorothy
Here’s a good archive on the U.S. role in the 1964 U.S. role in the Brazil military coup:
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB118/
“The Archive’s posting includes a declassified audio tape of Lyndon Johnson being briefed by phone at his Texas ranch, as the Brazilian military mobilized against Goulart. “I’d put everybody that had any imagination or ingenuity…[CIA Director John] McCone…[Secretary of Defense Robert] McNamara” on making sure the coup went forward, Johnson is heard to instruct undersecretary of State George Ball.”
The last thing the Kissinger types want is an economically independent Brazil, and the corrupt leaders that want to replace Dilma are exactly the kind of people they like to work with – greedy and short-sighted and eager to accept large loans (which they skim), which puts the country deep in debt to external creditors. Brazil then becomes a source of cheap raw materials for Wall Street, from beef for McDonalds to iron ore for global steel manufacturers to soybeans for agribusiness.
After all, if Brazil were to pursue real development, if it were to protect its natural resources from foreign exploitation, it might become another China, an independent power pursuing its own course in South America – and, in the imperial mindset that’s been in place in Washington ever since the end of World War II, South America is supposed to be within the ‘sphere of influence’ of Washington; this is also what Obama and Clinton believe (as the Honduras coup they supported made clear).
You’re absolutly right! The U.S government didn’t stop the imperialist system, they only do that in a different way. I’ve never seen a country with that kind of hypocrisy. In the WWII they were fighting against the authoritarianism, defending the freedom, but they let, and even helped the Franco dictatorship in Spain. There’s nothing more than interests. Brazil is dammed by others since the colonialist time, the country is big, with countless resources, and without the external influences, and this corrupt government, Brazil would certainly be another country. But it’s easy to say that the problem is in the U.S interference here, but the change need to come from inside, by our politicians, changing their focus on the particular ambitions, and starting to look at what is important for the people, all of them.
In the WWII they were fighting against the authoritarianism, defending the freedom..
We would like to think so but not exactly. The war against japan was precipitated by a US blockade of japan trade with indonesia, burma. Had to do with rubber i believe. US ships parked in the pacific at an island called hawaii were hit b/c of the blockade. And as far as Germany goes, US involvment in that (them were the empire days) the Banksters who owned the economy and trashed it in 1929 lost their ownership to Hitler in 1933.
US? sanctimonius bullcrap. Love the country, despise the policies and politicians. And we the people are being fed to the wealthy thieves, wallstreet, and the fraudulent currency scheme of the fed, a privately owned company by the rothchilds.
The imperial malaise is common throughout history, any empire crumbles over time. Instead of promoting domestic economies, the elite heads of empire try to profit by exploiting their imperial holdings – that’s what has destroyed manufacturing jobs all across the United States. And when that’s destroyed, all the knowledge goes with it, and the country falls behind the rest of the world.
That’s what’s happening with a lot of high-tech manufacturing and R&D – it was sent off to China, and now China is the global leader in manufacturing and also in manufacturing-related R&D. The areas of the U.S. that once were global leaders are now wastelands, crumbling buildings in Detroit, etc. The only place the world remains a global leader? High-tech weapons manufacturing. For some reason, ha ha, they don’t want to put those factories in China.
It’s endgame time for the post WWII American empire – we need to reinvest in the country, period. And this will be good for all other independent nations as well.
the elite heads of empire try to profit by exploiting their imperial holdings
True. But the elites are also responding to the operating environment that cultivates them and the collateral damage they cause.
Reinvest? Nice idea – won’t happen. In the current currency system in the US, America is a losing proposition. Donald Trump has a strong desire it seems, and that’s why wallstreet doesn’t want him.
There are 2 economies in America.
A. the VALUATION system
B. the CIRCULATION system
Wallstreet is running a con job of musical chairs and hijacking on America by calling all 3 systems – currency, valuation and circulation – CAPITALISM.
truth. no combination of those 3 systems amounts to capitalism!
What the pimped out political elites refuse to discuss, as does wallmedia, is OWNERSHIP & RETURN OF PRODUCTIVITY with respect to those 3 systems.
i once saw a very very large painting – in pointalism – and you could walk from one end to the other and see the people strollin on a sunday (i guess) turn of 19th century, abreast of you. But the picture would not be accurate if you stood at one end and looked across the scope of it. That’s PERSPECTIVE. And what wallstreet and their moneybagging thieves are attempting is a robbery of ownership of everything by providing Americans with a false perspective.
It’s endgame time for the post WWII American empire
exactly – but rebuilding will mean having to fire the currency system unless we submit to their demands that will take us further into enslavement.
If wallstreet were boycotted into bankruptcy, it would be a huge victory for life for people because everything wold be more affordable to more people.
THE CURRENCY SYSTEM HAS TO BE CHANGED.
And scrap steel, and, most importantly, oil (there’s that sludgy stuff, again!).
Whether it was Roosevelt’s intention to force Japan into a war or to deter one, the actual outcome is unarguable.
And as far as Germany goes, US involvment in that (them were the empire days) the Banksters who owned the economy and trashed it in 1929 lost their ownership to Hitler in 1933.
Don’t forget the viciously punitive conditions, and unaffordable reparations imposed upon Germany by the Allies at Versailles, and the unbending determination to see them enforced and paid. If the West had wanted to guarantee a hostile an bitter Germany, and establish ideal conditions for a right-populist leadership to arise, it couldn’t have done a better job.
I’m sorry for the “U.S”, I knew that I was expressing myself wrongly, I meant the U.S politicians; just like Brazil, most of the power is concentrated on the hands of few, the ones that do everything by themselves, the country might be fighting against it as much as the whole world. Again I apologize, I really meant the government and not the country.
I doubt most of us Americans posting at the Intercept took any offense to your comments, but it is very nice of you anyway.
I don’t want to let us off the hook too easily. We as Americans have indeed voted for these people over the years, and a lot of everyday Americans are truly callous about the fates of non-Americans. I’m sure that isn’t totally abnormal throughout history, for a people to regard the people of their nation (some of them anyway) as more valued, but it’s still a regrettable impulse that should be resisted.
Thanks for posting here, Manoel.
Thank you for the explanation! We all are citizens fighting for what is right. And I agree, it’s a common impulse to protect the own people, culture, and country, but just like you said, this impulse have to be resisted when it starts to cause damage to others. I believe that some day this perspective of divided world, and this imaginery border that we build will fall, and we will respect each other like human beings.
Now it’s funny – not in a good way -, the truth was attached on our faces, there was no doubt. Eduardo Cunha accepted the process against Dilma coincidentally in the same day that she expressed no support to him about the accusations and the process taking place in the Supreme Court. She gave the authonomy to the PF – Federal Police -, she was supporting the “car wash” investigations, there’s no accusations against her, unless the “administrative dishonesty”; And Cunha had the major support in the Lower and Upper House. Obviously the motivation to the Impeachment process was political and personal. I’m young to say, 18, but this coup might be another way to stop the brazilian progress, and the military support didn’t surprise me, in all History books in Brazil they are mentioned as the ones that took another president out of his office, João Goulart. It’s sad to see a false democracy, we have the vote, and it seems good because we can choose our representants, but that means nothing when they only represent their own ambitions, and campaing’s financers. What I see is a modern aristocracy, the people has the vote power, but the money and the political power still on the hands of few.
Re: Manoel Neto May 24 @ 8:05 AM
You, good sir, at the age of 18, have displayed a level of thoughtful wisdom and insight that provides one of those “teachable moments” to many of us that have lived much longer, but remain much less enlightened; from myself, at almost 74 years “young”, I thank you for sharing your views.
In closing you say:
Here in the U.S. we have a similar problem with “false democracy”, our election process has been corrupted by private interests and no longer serves the vast majority of our citizen’s needs and interests; whether economic or social.
I hope that either Mr. Greenwald, or one of his co-writers, replies to your comment.
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
Thank you so much sir, and you’ll be always young while your mind be it as well. About this insight that I had, I actually did it looking at american politics, and all the influence of the pharmaceutical industries on the elections. You can realize that the candidates want power, but for the campain they need money, the industry have it, and want to keep having it, and that’s why this government isn’t democratic, because it’s made to the rich, just like in the past. And then, I saw that it’s not only in the U.S, it’s everywhere. My ancestors fought for the right of vote, and they knew the democratic importance of it, but now we see that we need more, we need be respected, be seen, by those that we choose to wear a suit. I’m not saying that we need a new French Revolution, but we need changes, people still in the misery, and still dying because of their mad ambitions.
Mr. Greenwald
The White House continues to use a methodology of counting all military age males in a strike zone as “combatants”:
“……….HANOI, Vietnam — An American drone strike in a restive province of Pakistan killed Mullah Akhtar Muhammad Mansour, the leader of the Afghan Taliban, the White House confirmed on Monday……..”
More propaganda and manipulation by the US government……..
Funny, for a ‘TI regular’ you don’t look like a ‘far leftist’, craig.
Don’t know what this has to do with the troubles in Brazil … most likely a sign of early stage dementia? >”The White House continues to use a methodology of counting all military age males in a strike zone as “combatants”:”
Of course, one problem with that methodology is those military-aged males OUTSIDE the strike zone … if they were not ‘combatants’ before, they most likely will be now.
Lesson #3: ‘war conducted within a Strike Zone is just another name for … terrorism’ *son sue
“…….Don’t know what this has to do with the troubles in Brazil … most likely a sign of early stage dementia?…..‘war conducted within a Strike Zone is just another name for … terrorism’ ”
Actually, it’s well past when it should have begun! Drone operators are taught to look for vintage 1975 Toyota Hilux pick-ups with a machine gun mounted in the bed. The machine gun is accompanied by anywhere from 5 to 45 bearded men riding in the cab and in back carrying AK-47s. Some carry a minor amount of acid in case they see a little girl on the way to school.
Oh please, what does this have to do with Brazil?
If you’re going to go so far off-topic, why don’t you tell us again about your fondness for ISIS and how unhappy you are that they didn’t overun all of Syria? Still not willing to admit that the 2011 plan hatched between the CIA, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia and Qatar to fund and arm radical Wahhabi Islamic extremists as an anti-Assad, anti-Iran proxy force was actually a mistake that created global blowback, in a replay of the rise of the Taliban (who started out as a CIA, Saudi, and Pakistani-funded proxy force in Afghanistan)? As far as the drone strike, so now the Taliban have a new leader, and nothing else has changed on the ground in Afghanistan – nothing at all. Cause for a celebration?
Doing the same thing over and over and yet expecting a different outcome each time – where does that fall in the spectrum of psychological disorders?
Photo
“…….Still not willing to admit that the 2011 plan hatched between the CIA, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia and Qatar to fund and arm radical Wahhabi Islamic extremists as an anti-Assad, anti-Iran proxy force was actually a mistake that created global blowback, in a replay of the rise of the Taliban (who started out as a CIA, Saudi, and Pakistani-funded proxy force in Afghanistan)?…….”
The mistake that created a global blow-back was the Russian invasion and occupation of Afghanistan beginning in 1979. This led to the collapse of the Soviet Union and the freeing of 15 countries formerly under the Soviet empire. Islamists from all over the Middle East came to Afghanistan to fight the dark empire.
The Taliban did not exist during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan – nor did most of their fighters. The Taliban drew their “warriors” out of the refugee population in Pakistan. The refugees were created because of the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Most never fought the Soviets. They were funded, trained and supported by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia – not the US. The US had nothing to do with the rise of the Taliban. The Taliban were created in the early 90s, but became militarily active in 1994-1995. The Taliban and the Islamists who fought the Soviet occupation are a blow-back of Soviet policies.
Thanks
Ah, actually U.S. support for radical Islamic fundamentalism dates back to the Eisenhower and Kennedy-Johnson administrations, when they were backing the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt as an anti-Nasser proxy force, because they believed Nasser was too anti-colonial, too willing to accept aid from the Soviets, so he had to go – and who better to fight the Godless Communists than radical Wahhabi terrorists? Israel and the Saudis were also on board with this effort, a theme that continues to this day with their support for ISIS:
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=western_support_for_islamic_militancy_202700
This was typical Cold War thinking; the CIA was trying to kill off a long list of people in this era – Patrice Lumumba in the Congo, Fidel Castro in Cuba, and see recent revelations of the CIA role in delivering Nelson Mandela to the apartheid South African government, and also, to get back on topic, its role in the 1964 Brazil military coup.
Was this just the good anti-Communist freedom fight? Hardly – because the independent nationalists in ex-colonial countries once controlled by France and Britain were never supported; the goal was always to put puppet dictators in place who would be obedient to dictates from Washington, it was never about supporting the rise of independent democratic states who would obey neither Moscow nor Washington.
This was also clearly the agenda in Latin and South America, as any honest observer would admit.
The Muslim Brotherhood opposed the “Godless” Soviets so the MB had a common interest in aligning with the US for a short time. Even then, the US helped solidify Nasser’s dictatorship by forcing the British, Israelis and the French to withdraw during the Suez Canal crisis.
“……the goal was always to put puppet dictators in place who would be obedient to dictates from Washington……”
Of course, there is a certain amount of truth to that just as the Soviets installed puppets in Eastern Europe (and invaded Hungary in 1956). The Cold War was a game of manipulation between the US and the Soviets. Only communism represented pure evil – and was the largest political failure of the twentieth century. How many Democracies thrived under Soviet domination? The Soviet….er, Russia is still trying to install a puppet in Ukraine after their elected one was overthrown in a democratic revolution. The Russians are still fighting the “war on terror” in Syria to prop up Assad – the most brutal dictator in the world today.
Greenwald might focus entirely on the US, but it’s clear that Putin is guarding Russian interests in Syria – at great cost to civilian life (the lion’s share of atrocities have been committed by the Russian supported and armed Assad regime).
Thanks.
While there is no such thing as “pure evil”, its closest representative is imperialist capitalism, not the Stalinist distortion of socialism or communism. And the Soviet military intervention in Afghanistan came in response to a CIA-and-Saudi-armed right-wing rebellion against a left-reformist government — a government that, whatever its faults, actually empowered women and undermined the power of landlords and similar scum.
i am glad you went there.
That would be a CHECKMATE against @craigsummers who should know that too little info can be dangerous.
CONGRATS and thanks
The obvious takeaway from this coup in a ‘democratic country’ is this – leaving the instutitutions of capitalist power in place only leads to a ressurection of the monster. The military, the legal system, the private ownership of media – all are still dedicated to capitalist/pro-imperial neo-liberal policies. This is the same situation as in Venezuela. Either a revolution or social change moves forward, or it will ultimately moves back. Time for the people of Brazil to take power from the hands of the oligarchs. Build dual power. Shut down the oligarch press, arrest the judges, build a people’s army.
Good luck
People against Dilma/pt outnumbers who are in favor by 4 or 5:1…
And you cant build an army when our tottalitary state nearly forbids the citizen of having a gun. when the population disarmed itself without a fight, it sealed its fate.
Dilma and pt were 13 years on charge to do anything they wanted regarding media regulation and did nothing. the so called oligarch press, as you say, you partly blame on pt either.
It happened faster than I allowed myself to hope for. But there remains one interesting aspect: In the past you have subsumed Folha under the heading of “oligarch media.” It appears that not everything os lost in Brazil!
Brazil today awoke with another Lavajato operation, called Vicio (addiction), aiming yet another corrupiion scheme at petrobras by pt
pt, dilma, lula et caterva are addicted to corruption but we probably wont have a bombastic BRAZIL TODAY AWOKE post here regrding the judiciary doing its job
yesterday Folha de Sao Paulo was a useful media to the cause. Today, it still is, or now it is a corrupt media engaging the coup?
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2016/05/1774451-policia-federal-deflagra-30-fase-da-operacao-lava-jato.shtml
THIS IS FOR GLENN:
Dear Glenn,
You are really an awesome journalist. You know how so many people think you are great.
I have a demand to you. It is that you give a whole course of journalism online. I mean, telling really what that is about. I am Brazilian and situation is especially critical in Brazil, but it is not like people are aware about the real job of media elsewhere.
All the best!
Well, hopefully this is gonna go on as it should: Dilma out, Temer out, and any other corrupt out, until the one who gets in understands that Presidency ain’t no Kindergarden for steeling other kid’s sweets while shouting them out, but rather a country’s highest administrative position PAYED BY THE PEOPLE who deserves the least RESPECT!
I don’t know that any links have been established between the drivers of this coup and the CIA. But given the history of the latter in South and Central America, I would not be surprised if the CIA was behind it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxeNJh8K-MU Brazil’s Acting President Gave Sensitive Briefings to US
Revelations of NSA involvement…
Well, if US agencies don’t have some involvement in these right-wing machinations, it would be the first time that has been the case in Latin America since at least 1846, so I know how I’d place my bets.
Funny how you “forgot” to mention that, in the same recording, Jucá has also said that he wants to do that to protect Lula.
Anyways, there are no big news here. Juca wanted to impeach Dilma and stop the investigations? Wow, really surprising. That does not change the fact that most of the population wanted the impeachment, that the process was started after the biggest protest in our country’s history and that she cooked the books to win the election. So, please, just stop with this nonsense.
BTW, Dilma is also being investigated for trying to stop the investigations. Three different sources confirmed and it was clear in her conversations with Lula. But that doesn’t matter right? The plot story is much more juicy..
Another one of those times when “I told you so” just doesn’t quite say it.
Thank you, Mr Greenwald, you are showing the truth about what a group of thieves are doing in my country. #VOLTADILMA e traga a democracia para nós.
Thank you again Mr. Greenwald! As a Brazilian I don’t want new elections. I believe Dilma should finish her mandate considering he was already democratically elected by more than 54 millions of people.
The same 54 millions voted for Temer as vice-president and voted for the Politicians (corrupt or not) who, acting under the law (whether you like it or not), impeached Dilma.
Acting under the law? You are a joke. People voted for Dilma to be the president. They didn’t expect a bunch of mobsters to still the power of their democratic president. Whether you like it or not, its well known that its a coup and Temer and his gang are the criminals that should be in jail.
Bam! Spot on! Perfect comment! True.
Brazil used to make soap operas for the rest of Latin America to enjoy. Have they changed the business model to news about political drama?
Also, it should be more obvious to Glenn/theIntercept now that they haven’t “destroyed” that thing they call “privacy rights” whatever they mean. Also let’s not forget that corruption (which is illegal in Brazil) doesn’t seem to have a political preference there. Have we forgotten so fast that, in fact, Dilma Vana Rousseff and Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (to whichever extent) were part of whole corruption enterprise?
Who is behind the wiretapping of all those phone calls in Brazil? Ha! What a question!?!
Those kinds of brief and to the point exposé that happened with Vicky “f#ck the EU”, “give’em (freedom-loving terrorists) cookies” Nuland is happening way to often in Brazil.
What will be the next episode of Brazilian political drama, Michel Miguel (funny compound name this guy has) Temer has always been a CIA operative in Brazil?
What the heck is really- happening in Brazil (one of the most classist countries)? The some people are getting to anxious about the political empowerment of brownies and blacks? Are they really trying to re-legalize slavery?
RCL
“Have they changed the business model to news about political drama?”
You mean, this isn’t a soap opera?
Globo still pumps out the novelas, my friend ;-) It calms their audience down between dramatic episodes of Jornal Nacional.
I hear Globo buried the news of Romero Jucá’s resignation deep in the 9 p.m. news broadcast.
Probably because they didn’t want to excite the audience before bedtime, huh? ;^)
I cannot stomach five seconds of their shit, but now that their audience got what they were told to want it is not going pay any more attention to stories concerning corrupt politicians and business people here, unless the targets are evil body fluid stealing communists doing Stalin’s bidding. (Oh, he’s dead? I’m definitely Gobo deprived.) Anyway, novelas are so much more interesting, with the lovely costumes and topical subjects and all.
the point is that Jornal Nacional is not a news broadcast. It is another soap opera, done with the characters of reality. It is just fiction sold as journalism. Remember the letter from João Marinho for The Guardian. He finished it saying: “we just show the facts”. So it is like tales: you start saying ‘it all happened once upon a time’. They sell it as impartial, what does not exist, and facts, as if it were science. Some positivist tradition laying died there? Journalism is political, or it is nothing, and you have your side. I mean, not a political party side, but a critical side, or a subservient one. This last one made a tradition in Brazil, unfortunately.
That is also why we love The Intercept. Other journalists are also good in Brazil, when they get distance from the big business of news, or when you take them as individuals. Also, hopefully, journalists will know to get inspiration from Intercept and will see more and more the importance of their job to build critique thought among Brazilians.
War has been declared by the pilot fishes for the wealthers against what remains of the middle and working classes. This war is about feeding the massive amount of horded wealth that demands to grow either by receiving interest payments or, by increasing in value of its holdings and being able to sell when needed by lowering of primary interest rate to make the buying of the overpriced assets easier and at the same time with the promise to the sellers of lowering interest rates again when buyers start drying up.
The only other option is physical war or printing money, faster.
The toilet that is as large as the planet has been flushed and the turmoil for power to get every last drop of blood from the working people and middle class is in full swing as an effort to privitise everything and own it all. Enter Temer and Cunha. Also Hillary who managed the scheme to privitise PEMEX. In the US, it’s the roads, bridges, utilities and schools. In Brasil, the target is PETROBRAS.
kind of like a game of marbles, eh?
Look at the difference:
– State-run Petrobras corruption scandal:
* the head of state defines its presidents regardless of competence, only political affiliation;
* the employees are public servants, cant be fired unless Armageddon occurs, so productivity can go to hell;
* its project’s viabilities are based on political games, not on technical/economical aspects;
* approved projects by the government officials are prone to pornographic amounts of bribery;
* if it succeeds (i.e. profit), government cash it away and dilutes in the governmental machine;
* if it fails (i.e. deficit, default), the “contributors” (Brazilian euphemism for taxpayers) are called to pay the bills.
– State-run Petrobras corruption scandal:
*as a taxpayer, the president is not my problem;
*as a taxpayer, the employees are not my problem;
*as a taxpayer, its project’s viabilities are not my problem;
*as a taxpayer, its approved projects are not my problem;
*as a taxpayer, if it succeeds, it is not my problem;
*as a taxpayer, if it fails, it is not my problem;
Are you able to spot the difference?????
Although I so admire your efforts at divulging the break in Brazilian democracy to the world, I must criticize two things. First, new elections still mean a coup. The new elections path is still taking out an elected president illegally. It will be as it was in Honduras. Would give the coup airs of democracy. Second: Marina Silva is not disliked by the elites. It has been a long while that she has moved to the right, economically and socially. Just take a look with whom she has been aligning recently and at her proposals from last elections.
Glenn, i´ve been keeping up with you work and I must that without it (and also David´s ) I don´t think it ´d be possible for the world to know any other story besides the media´s narrative. I´m grateful for all you´ve done to Brazil and our democracy.
Mr. Greenwald, Mr Miranda and Mr. Fishman
The political class in Brazil – left and right – is extremely corrupt, but the Intercept has been all over the map on this issue (striking out blindly to save the government). You have continuously criticized the media for their advocacy journalism, yet it was the largest newspaper in Brazil, Folha de São Paulo, which published the so called proof of the “coup”. Even if the leak was from a completely different source, you had no business hypocritically criticizing the media for political motivated coverage. Then, you attempted to plant the idea that the US was behind the impeachment of Rousseff without any proof what so ever except that the US meddled in the affairs of Brazil 50 years ago during the cold war.
Additionally, you welcome the information published by Folha de São Paulo, but questioned releasing the phone conversation between Lula and Rousseff which allowed Lula to avoid possible prosecution (Guardian):
“……In the latest of a series of explosive revelations that could bring down the Brazilian government, a secretly recorded phone call between former president Luiz Inácio “Lula” da Silva and his successor, Dilma Rousseff, suggests his appointment to a ministerial position on Wednesday was motivated by a desire to avoid prosecution in Brazil’s worst-ever corruption scandal……”
Every step of the way, you have been motivated politically to protect the government of Rousseff and condemn their opponents. You opposed the “neoliberal” agenda and working with the US on the economy. This has never been about democracy. If the shoe was on the other foot, you would have condemned the “corrupt” right wing government – and supported the impeachment process.
I agree entirely. They are engaging in politics and sacrificing journalistic standards in the process. The double standards, bias and distortion are too great.
Then you’re a fool. You’re agreeing with the resident authoritarian who — literally — defends and approves of torture. As long as it’s the U.S., a Western ally, Israel, or an opponent of a “leftwing” government that the U.S. dislikes, Craig loves torture.
More importantly, this pest is fully aware that Glenn Greenwald does NOT eschew activist journalism. Ever. At all. He fully embraces activist journalism.
No, what he rejects is an establishment media — in Brazil or in the United States — that tries to pass itself off as “neutral,” and “objective” journalism holding “a view from nowhere.” Such media are either lying or self-deluded.
“……..He [Greenwald] fully embraces activist journalism……”
Until he doesn’t – as in the case of Brazil. The Brazil media was a case in point for advocacy journalism – only they were not advocating what Greenwald believes so he relentlessly criticized it. How many articles explicitly condemned the “right wing” media in Brazil for politically motivated support for the impeachment of Rousseff? Greenwald went so far as to cite Reporters Without Borders about the ownership of the media in Brazil by the rich. This went on until today’s article; until the leaked conversations of the “plot” BY THE LARGEST NEWSPAPER IN BRAZIL,
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
“Craig loves torture.”
Careful Mona. You have expressed an unhealthy approval of American torturers on dozens of occasions. You and Craig have so much in common.
You are a very disturbed and unfortunate individual. One of these who has infested comments here from time to time.
Get some help.
Once again you prove you Craig have much in common. Somebody mentions Zersetzung and you lose it.
Why is that, lawyer in a country without laws?
You need professional help. Some of your fellow sufferers have lived tragically and then died tragically. Read about Myron May in that link.
Your “notions” are not merely entertaining-but-annoying, as I once found them; they are indicative of human tragedy. I pity you, I mean that sincerely, and hope you find a way out.
Get. Help.
No, Craig.
I won’t read your torture adoring shit. Do you still presume you are something other than a useless anachronism, deluded American lawyer?
“The double standards, bias and distortion are too great.”
A fair description of the Intercept’s radical agenda and pseudo-journalism.
Now that Miranda is a “journalist” too, you can expect Greenwald’s dogs to start contributing soon.
Indeed, it is a disgrace what kind of disservice small outlets like this are doing in favor of sheer corruption and shameless lies. They bite and at the same time they blow the wound. It’s all about convenience.
This statement is a proof that Intercept puts politics ahead of journalistic standards. Shame on you!
“proof that Brazil’s military, its dominant media outlets, and its Supreme Court were colluding in secret to ensure the removal of the democratically elected president;”
Gee, Diogo, I’m not fluent in Portuguese, but my Spanish reading skills are sufficient to lead me to believe that the transcripts, if they are faithful to the original recordings and if the parties are correctly identified, are, indeed . . .
“. . . proof that Brazil’s military, its dominant media outlets, and its Supreme Court were colluding in secret to ensure the removal of the democratically elected president.”
It’s really difficult to see how an honest observer could conclude otherwise.
Of course, I’ll withhold final judgment until I can read a competent English translation . . . but I’ll be very surprised if that changes my understanding of the conversations.
This is one guy alleging that he has been talking with generals and justices. How does that prove they are part of a plot?!
Look, there are similar recordings that recently came out from people in Dilma’s camp: her leader in the Senate was caught in a similar situation, also Lula. In this recording, Machado clearly states the need to protect Lula (and not surprisingly the authors here don’t mention that). Should we take that as proof that Lula too was part of the plot?
Please…
Also, what this shameful article doesn’t mention is that pro-government camp – which unbelivably they call “supporters of Brazil’s democracy” (!!!) – have also been claiming for months that Lava Jato and the main judge were part of the “coup” – you know, the judge and the operation that these recordings attack. How does that play for these conspiracy theories? Also, the fact that this was published by the buggest newspaper, who we learned from Glenn are the main agents of the coup…
This is picking and choosing the facts to fit a narrative while ignoring evrything else that contradicts these theories.
Frankly, I’m very dissapointed by The Intercept. The degree of bias and distortion is the same as Globo and the mainstream media in Brazil. The same level, the only difference is the power they have and the side they are on.
Intercept is provong to be unreliable source of information.
That’s hilarious. To hear you tell it, Romero Jucá is Just Some Guy. Um, how stupid do you think the readers here are?
It will survive your profound unhappiness.
Yes, just some guy. Less powerful than other Senator – Delcídio – who were caught interfering with the case and is now testified saying Dilma was the one putting pressure on the STF judges to stop the investigations. No one should take Delcidio’s or Juca’s words as proof of anything.
But of course you would react like this, being the minion and uncritical cheerleader that you are.
I see. Yes, I now see. You cannot be reasoned with. I shall adjust how I interact with you, if I continue to do so at all.
Once near humans turn themselves over to the insect colony, they dont come back. Reasoning out, programming in.
Diego writes
“…….Look, there are similar recordings that recently came out from people in Dilma’s camp: her leader in the Senate was caught in a similar situation, also Lula……”
You need to address that Mona. After all, you seem to enjoy bragging about how sophisticated you are:
“……If you cannot engage in exchange of views without that sort of substance-free trash, you won’t get very far here. As a rule, those who comment here — as has always been true for those who comment in Glenn Greenwald’s space — are well-informed, politically sophisticated individuals who have utter disdain for such ploys……”
Diego writes:
“…….But of course you would react like this, being the minion and uncritical cheerleader that you are [Mona]……” my insert in brackets
Nailed her……..
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/?comments=1#comment-212423
“To hear you tell it, Romero Jucá is Just Some Guy.”
Mmm. As of the end of the day in Brazil, he’s Some Gone Guy — “on leave,” is the official designation. ;^)
However, Machado is, apparently, already negotiating a plea agreement, so I doubt that ol’ Romero will be back in office anytime soon.
The rest of the Lava Jato cabinet might have cause for concern, also. ;^(
Doug, it is useless to debate with some people that deny the undeniable. Go get yourself a root canal, you are likely to have more fun.
I know. I think I may have an incurable neurological disorder.
I just can’t stop . . . !
Nah…you and Mona are just addicted to Grand Slam math…
:D
TI style…
If all you know is what you read on The Intercept, of course it all seems so straightforward and undeniable. But that’s because you just hear one small part of the story.
The reality is that even in the media aligned with PT, you won’t find many that will say, like these guys did, that this conversation is proof that the military and the supreme court are indeed colluding in secret to oust Dilma, because that is ludicrous. This is clearly an attempt to manipulate the international public opinion for political purposes.
Look, Diego, please try to stay planted in reality. This is who you consider to be “just some guy”:
Unless that tape is fabricated, or severely edited, you will convince no one here that this isn’t a smoking gun. Because, most of us, well, we are operational in the actual world.
He is an important leader at PMDB, having been in Lula’s cabinet in the past. So his statements are a smoking gun against his party.
But against the military and supreme court, not even close.
I think it os quite of the bias that Intercept has shown over and over about this topic that they would be willing to take Jucá’s words as facts, when Intercept was quite dismissive of similar statements that came from the conversations of Lula and Delcidio.
At that time, Intercept described Lula’s conversations as just “vague” stuff. But if Jucá says something about STF and the military, that’s a proof. Hmmmm
Yes, you clearly see paying attention to the facts, rather than the spin, as ‘evidence of bias’.
Caution is warranted. The recordings of Lula’s conversations had very similar substance with respect to the Supreme Court: musings about influence over Justices to kill the investigation, but in that case coming from Dilma’s camp.
The intentions of Jucá and others on PMDB are quite clear. The accuracy of his statements with respect to any other actor here is just speculation.
If Intercept was willing to dismiss Lula’s intercepted conversations, it should at least exercise caution before taking Jucá’s words as fact.
It didn’t. The Intercept has never claimed that Lula is not involved in corruption.
You are trying to change the subject, but it’s not going to work. That you dismiss Jucá as “just some guy” means you are a propagandist, a fool, or both.
You have found exactly the right pal in Craig. He “reasons” similarly to you.
You don’t even know the story. I’m not referring to corruption charges, but to the content of intercepted conversations, and the contrast on how the intercept reported it, in this case of Jucá vs. Lula and Delcidio who are from PT. You wouldn’t know, precisely because the intercept did not reported the content of Lula’s conversation, instead just dismissing it as some vague stuff, when in fact it revealed the same kind of intent in killing the investigations through politixal backchanels. Not coincidentally, Sen. Jucá’s recorded conversations also revealed the intent of protecting Lula from corruption charges, which of course the Intercept did not report either.
Even if true: It. Does. Not. Matter.
Greenwald et al. are reporting on the equally-or-more-corrupt rightwing forces using what you call “back channels” to illegitimately destroy the choice of voters and install themselves. THAT is the issue here.
What Dilma did, what Lula did, what Greenwald did or didn’t report about Lula’s conversations, has virtually no bearing on the FACT that the FACTS demonstrate a coup by the grossly corrupt rightwing.
He *is* an activist journalist, and his reporting — along with that of Andrew Fishman and David Miranda — tells the facts that appear to be nearly missing from Brazilian media. A media that has apparently facilitated the corrupt coup-plotting and plotters.
Ha! You mean like this story that just came out on the main newspaper in Brazil? It’s funny that your admiration makes you have this level of disconnect.
There is literally nothing that the Intercept published that was not reported in the mainstream media. The intercept pretty much just published opinion pieces, not real reporting – which should be rich in facts, tell the entire story accurately – let alone investigative journalism.
…equally or more corrupt right wing…
so, even if for a lesser extent, you recognize the former government as corrupt.
… destroy the choice of voters….
voters voted for dilma/temer, not dilma alone, so technically their votes are still in place.
… install themselves…
Janaina Paschoal, Helio Bicudo and Miguel Reale, those who propposed the impeachment, are not in temers cabinet or holding any office position.
… tells the facts that appear to be nearly missing from Brazilian media…
all of that was reported by all media, including all that dilma supporters despise.
The intercept on the other hand, not a single word on pt scandals that are discovered day after day
So, we have some folks here, like Kostas Katsouranis and Thomas, spewing ad hominem crap like this about all who question their assertions:
If you cannot engage in exchange of views without that sort of substance-free trash, you won’t get very far here. As a rule, those who comment here — as has always been true for those who comment in Glenn Greenwald’s space — are well-informed, politically sophisticated individuals who have utter disdain for such ploys.
You will be dismissed as trolls, and treated as such, should you continue in that vein.
I cant say this about your country (you seem to be American, pls correct meif Im wrong); but when it comes to Brazil, it is not ad hominem because it is not a preconceived idea. There is a real brainwashing going on on our (brazilian) educational system.
The indocrination happening in our system is so rampant, made by the government in a Gramsci-like fashion; parents, students and educational consultants are concerned with it.
Not only our students performance in math physics, chem, biology is downhill compared with other nations, but also the statolatry pushed to them is visible. most young students ARE brainwashed to accept government positions without questioning regarding any subject, and to dismiss their own views and their parents.
Citizens who are concerned about started a campaing to stop this (http://www.escolasempartido.org/ – school without party) for most school teachers and professors in brazil are left wing – not we have a problem – but they pass their ideology as a scientific truth and forbid the contradictory and debate. They censor the debate in the name of an artificial left-wing consensus.
Some state legislatures already proposed and some already passed laws regarding teaching neutrality, so outrageous is the indocrination; and now the congress is avaliating a federal bill on the subject.
(ex. http://www.al.sp.gov.br/propositura/?id=1215641)
So, I politely disagree, this was not ad homing because it is a serious issue happening in Brazil.
Dear Glenn, we brazilians (good ones) must say: Thank you soooo much for your great job! We love U!!!
Looks like someone needs to sit down with Brazil’s governmental leaders and explain to them why separation of powers (i.e. the independence of the judicial, legislative and executive branches of government) is an absolute requirement for a healthy democracy. It looks like a massive amount of collusion between those branches is behind this attempted political coup.
However, this story has had some effects, a top minister (Juca) is out:
http://in.reuters.com/article/brazil-politics-idINL2N18K0NS
We saw this in the United States during the Bush era and it still persists to this day, perhaps to a lesser extent. The Citizen’s United Supreme Court decision, which overturned decades of precedent on campaign funding, much to the benefit of Wall Street-financed politicians in Congress, is another example of this kind of collusion – that decision should have been overturned by the legislative branch, but since it benefits the incumbents, that’s not on the table.
“……..We saw this in the United States during the Bush era and it still persists to this day, perhaps to a lesser extent…….”
My memory is not that good. Maybe you can fill me in on the details?
No al golpe!
Wow. What’s the Portuguese for “hasbara?”
Wait! I’ve got it: “Propaganda de extrema-direita.”
The option for new elections, although supported by 62% of the population, is not democratic as you seem to imply, as this is not in Brazil’s Constitution. If you consider that the support of 62% is valid to change the law, why don’t you consider that the support of more than 80% to the impeachment of Dilma (under current Constitution) is not democratic?
I’m truly disappointed with the quality of journalism seem here. I started reading The Intercept as an independent source of investigative journalism, but it seems that your view on the subject ends up affecting your objectivity. Reading all that you’ve written about this process in Brazil makes me think whether it doesn’t happen the same in articles about other subjects.
It seems to me that a better analysis would be that, if the Brazilian Constitution allows a de facto coup by certified corrupt actors, in secret concert with the leaders of the military and judiciary, disguised as an impeachment, but doesn’t allow for the desire of a large majority of the people for new elections, it is the Constitution that is, umm, democratically challenged.
“. . . but it seems that your view on the subject ends up affecting your objectivity.”
Of course a writer’s view affects her or his reporting! There’s no such thing, in this dimension, as objective journalism. People who complain about the lack of it usually, actually, mean they want journalism that agrees with their views.
Your constitution prohibits the democratic election of its leaders, rather than the installation of a corrupt group of men illegally colluding with the courts and military to effect a coup? If that’s true, your constitution is deeply flawed.
You’re oversimplifying the situation.
It does prohibits election when both president and vice presidents seats are not vacant – for all purposes, both are in office now, Dilma (on trial) and Temer (interim).
Why you keep yelling coup?? If it is even a coup, dont you remember it is not finished yet? That Dilma STILL is president while she’s on trial?? That her Trial can last 6 months?? And if she is found not guilty she will be the on charge again??
Why you keep saying it like there’s no return?? It has JUST STARTED!!
there are 2 types of coups.
FORMAL as in egypt where the military simply move in and take over.
INFORMAL as in Brasil in which the elected president is removed by pretenses but which pretenses are revealed to be a coup with things like The conversations also include discussions of the important role played in Dilma’s removal by the most powerful national institutions, including — most importantly — Brazil’s military leaders.
Of course the action of the military guarantee would constitute a formal coup.
You are free to pretend that this would be something else. And you are free to fish for others willing to buy into your pretense.
Sorry barabbas, but thats a non sequitur:
– Even if the succeding government is corrupted, how thats prove that the removal of the former government was a coup in the first place??
– Idem, how that dismisses the accusations of the corruption of the former government?
====================
And besides, a wired conversation between “A” and “B” alone, claiming “C” “D” and “E” are on the team (corrupted), this wired conversation alone is sufficient to charge “C” “D” and “E” of corruption? and the due process??
In this case, a conversation between Juca and the other, claiming the military is with them, this conversation alone is proof the military is envolved?
How to take Juca’s statements for granted without further investigation, if a corrupted should not be reliable in the first place?
Im not pretending anything. I dont sympathize with current government either, up to me they can be behind bars… But that doesnt make Dilma any less corrupt.
Because the evidence is that: 1. corrupt and illegal means were used to generate popular and political, as well as judicial, support for the impeachment, and 2. these corrupt means were committed in the service of undoing the democratically elected Dilma and installing the hideously corrupt conspirators in her place.
1. Thats disputed. All documents regarding the process are public, anyone with internet can have it and analyze them.
2. all sessions in the lower chamber (chamber of deputies) and higher chamber (senate) of the congress, as well the supreme court sessions ruling the rite, pace and doubts given by the government and opposition were all broadcasted live on tv, radio and youtube. It was very transparent. so far the rites and pace were observed by the congressmen, all acording to the supreme court.
If the corruption is so blatant as you all claim, (1) why can’t any of you point specifically where did it went wrong? (2) why cant any of you point exactly where the documents used to ask her impeachment were illegal? (3) where they are wrong or misinterpreted?
To say just “corrupt and illegal means” is rather vague.
To state the succesors are corrupt (probably are) doesnt make the former less corrupt or deserving to take the power back.
We must measure all with the same rule.
No.
“We” must not.
You are unreasonable if you do not see that the facts adduced in this article, and others related to it, demonstrate corruption and bad faith activities on the part of the rightwing politicians and media who oppose both Dilma and the left.
That being the case, I will not be pulled into a rabbit hole of semantics. Demonstrating that you are unreasonable is the extent of the time and energy I shall allocate to you.
There’s no rightwing politician in Brazil yet. PMDB, they are centrists by all standards. A catch-all party, whose sole purpose is being the biggest one cant afford to pick a side.
I am not saying the article doesnt demonstrates corruption of the interim government. All Im saying is that this corruption doesnt make the former government less corrupt, and therefore, its impeachment a coup.
Implying the government should be given back to Dilma because Temer is corrupt is a non-sequitur.
And Temer power to conduct the impeachment is overrated, Its not like a republican majority congress is impeaching a democrat president (or the other way around). Brazil has over 30 and somemore parties, PMDB has only 13% of the seats (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A2mara_dos_Deputados_do_Brasil#Bancada_dos_partidos)
And if you think corruption laws dont apply to all, fine.
Ciao.
Guess what, no one is crying over Juca, whose reputation precedes him by 10-15 years.
We couldnt care less about him. Differently of those who idolize Dilma and Lula, we dont pick and choose our prefered criminals. We want all of them gone.
The criminal records of a right winger doesn’t justify the criminal record of the left winger; and vice-versa, as the adage goes…
Until some substantial evidence against any judiciary member to back it up, the suspicion over the supreme court justices and federal judges, it is what it is, all talk, talk and talk.
TBH, I already want Temer out. He proved himself to be a wuss, a pussy….
he has no balls the be commander in chief…
He made the right decision to slash the Ministery of Culture and cut the flow of taxpayers money to the rich artists who surely dont need it, only to back up and reinstall it over a little cry of the hypocrite artistical class who are disposable, cant sustain themselves and feed only on public money. Weak.
Now he showed his weakness, the brats wont give him a second to govern, be either him wrong or right, corrupt or not, he’s already doomed….
“rich artists who surely dont need it”
Is Brazil located on a different planet from Earth?
Why,
Feels right to you that in a country with millions below poverty line the gvt give away money to rich artits produce their content, media, and shows?
Nope! his mind is located on a different planet… somewhere on the JibJab planet..
I believe that the portion of the budget dedicated to culture is tiny.
$ 7.8 Million. For a single project. Yes it is tiny compared to the federal budget. But thats besides the point.
The poorest part of the society, that spends its entire income on food and shelter (survival) pays astonishing 40 cents to the dollar spent (tax inclusive, if considering tax exclusive it would be 67%) on consumption taxes. This load on the poorest is a debauchery. And taking this money from the poor to give to the rich, regardless the purpose, is wrong. plain wrong.
The people who wants to make a living on art, should find a way to sustain themselves out of taxpayers money.
Nevermind it shouldnt be federal money in the first place. At very least this should be treated in local administration (i.e. state or municipality).
How many welfare programs for so many people could you fund with this single project $7.8 M alone??
sorry, forgot the link:
https://megalopolis.wordpress.com/2016/04/15/porta-dos-fundos-devolvera-7-860-milhoes-da-lei-rouanet/
nevermind their hypocrisy of disdaining the money after the criticism they got after they received it.
A coup? With the Supreme Court, the Lower House, the Senate, the Armed Forces, the National Organization of Lawyers and +5 million people on the streets? Why do you do this to your readers? What do you stand to gain? Look at the featured image to your post. Who was Marighella? Do you know?
Ivan, that was exactly what I was talking about. The MST supports Carlos Marighella, a notorious communist terrorrist and murder. :D
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!
Go pick your Dustra’s Dictatorship fanfic “The Suffocated Truth” and smoke it. People who call Carlos Marighella a terrorist is on the same level of the ultra-right-wing neo-nazis who called (and still call) Nelson Mandela a terrorist. He was fighting an obviously and preposterously brutal authoritarian dictatorship. Several people tried to assassinate Hitler with bombs and other plots and today they are seem as tragic heroes who failed at their duties but followed their conscience. Marighella is the same, but the Bolsominions see him as a terrorist and the notorious torturer (and overall horrible excuse for a human being) Dustra a hero.
Brazil is like opposite world where slavery is excusable, authoritarian dictatorship is celebrated, the poor and oppressed take advantage of the rich and powerful, sadistic torturers are considered courageous heroes and persecuted groups in a serious arms, logistical, personnel and surveillance situation are considered paramilitary powerhouses of villains and terrorists. Where the right wing can rule unopposed for 130 years without problem but when the left wing takes charge for one-tenth of that it is considered a repressive dictatorship.
What do you call it, then? A clear conspiracy which resulted in toppling a government merely to save their necks? Do you think the actions of the crook-filled Lower House and Senate morally validate it? Did you not hear about the millions against the impeachment too?
Dilma is gone because these people feel they have a better chance of evading justice, plain and clear.
Glenn, David and Andrew,
Thank You…Muito Obrigado!!!
Let me ask one thing: is there any transcript of conversations among Judges from Supreme Court about impeachment? The answer is NO. Anyone can predict or cheer for any result but only when the Suprem Court be part of conspiracy you can call a coup.
They DON’T dislike Marina Silva. Not at all. She’s one of them.
Marina, the Watermelon:
Greenish / environmentalist on the surface…
Reddish / communist on the true inside… (left PT for the press, but keep it in her soul)
Guys, Brazil’s impeachment process is not a coup! It is guaranteed by the Brazilian Constitutions. If the President of Repeublic behaves badly any Brazilian citizen can as for a impeachement request. Here are some reasons why the impeachement proceeding against President Dilma is not a coup, although some leftists who support Carlos Marighella think very differently. The Supplementary Law Nº 101/2000 Article 30 of the Brazilian Federal Constitution addresses that the President of the Republic must submit to the Federal Senate the proposal of overall limits for the amount of consolidated debt of the Federal government, the States and Municipalities. That means the LRF is applied to the President of the Republic. Article 73 addresses “Violation of the provisions of this Supplementary Law must be punishable pursuant to Decree-Law 2848 of December 7, 1940 (Penal Code);Law 1079 of April 10,1950; Decree-Law 201 of February 27, 1967; Law 8429 of June 2, 1992; and all other rules set forth in relevant legislation.” That is, the LRF itself mention the Law Nº1079/50, which is the Law of Impeachment. This is the law that admits the charge made by any citizen against the President of the Republic. Therefore, the argument that this Law does not applied to the President is not a valid argument because it is everything written in the law. To reinforce this law, it was edited in the same year Law nº 10.028 of 2000, called the Law of Fiscal Crimes that created a new chapter in the Brazilian Penal Code that talks about “Crimes against Public Finances”. It features Article 359 (a) to 359 (h). The behavior of Brazil’s President Rousseff fits perfectly in the articles 359 (a) and 359 (c). Article 359 (a) because she did credit operation prohibited by the law. Article 359 (c) because she did those operations on the eve of the vote the final pre-election. And she did that to guarantee the re-election, creating a false sense of stability, a false sense of accomplishment and security on the population, so that the people thought that the government budget was solid. Just like she did when she asked about the corruption at Petrobras. She denied the facts about the scandal until the moment she couldn’t do it anymore. So, Law nº 10.028 of 2000, called the Law of Fiscal Crimes, that created a new chapter in the Brazilian Penal Code, reinforce the charges against the President of the Republic made by Former Justice Minister Miguel Reale Jr., a leading supporter of the impeachment request. At the same time, this law alterated Law Nº 1079/50, that already penalized crimes of misappropriation against the budgetary law, but in order to detail the damage caused by these misappropriations. Therefore, this impeachment law, which is a Penal Law, brought Articles 10, 11, and 12 to the Supplementary Law Nº 101/2000, that exactly describes what President of the Republic did: 1) to accept sealed loans from the state-owned financial institutions, such as public banks. 2) do not cancel the sealed loans (cf. Seal Contract Law) 3) do not care about paying the loans to the public banks. 4) to open supplementary credit by Presidential Decree without prior authorization of the National Congress (Article 85, item IV, and article 167, item V, and Law Nº 1079, article 10, item 4 and article 11, item 2). What Rousseff did is so illegal that it is in the Article 167 of the Brazilian Federal Constitution, which defines the crimes about unauthorized loans from state-owned banks so called unauthorized decrees. Brazil’s impeachment process is not a coup at all, although a lot of leftists who support Carlos Marighella, a communist terrorist who tortured and murdered hundreds of people, think very differently. It is perfectly natural they think that the impeachement process is a coup. They hate the Brazilian Constitution and all it represents.
Let’s just say that a “coup by another means” is still a coup.
What coup are you talking about? There was no illegal seizure of Rousseff government and therefore there wasn’t any coup. The impeachment process is guaranteed by the Brazilian Federal Constitution. If the President of the Republic violates any law of the Brazilian Federal Constitution or the Penal Code, any Brazilian citizen can ask for an impeachment request. Rousseff violated Article 85, Article 8, 9, 10, 11 of the Law 1079/50, Article 299 of the Brazilian Penal Code, which is a very serious thing because it addresses cloning and falsification of credit and debit cards, and Articles 359 (a) to 359 (c) of the Brazilian Penal Code. As you can see, it was she who gave Brazilians a coup. The problem is that many of these leftists who support Carlos Marighella and the Worker’s Party depend on social programs financed by Rousseff government, and now is perfectly natural they are afraid to lose their benefits if something bad happens to the president. That’s the main reason they claim that the Brazil’s impeachment process is a coup, but it is not. It is guaranteed by the Brazilian Federal Constitution. How come is a coup then?
There are 2 types of coups…
https://theintercept.com/2016/05/23/new-political-earthquake-in-brazil-is-it-now-time-for-media-outlets-to-call-this-a-coup/?comments=1#comment-233051
Dear Mike, the impeachment was undisputedly legal and leaded by representatives of the people democratically elected just like the ousted president. You are trying to give a new definition for “coup” as something that does not please you and the people supporting the former government. What none of you are able to put it clearly, is the why you call this impeachment a coup and the impeachment of Mr. Collor not? Or the many requests for impeachment requested by PT in previous governments at all levels?
Let’s just say that a “coup by another means” is still a coup. Again!!!
OK Mr. Coxinha…here inside in The Intercept Comments, you never will get success trying change the real situation and the True…it’s simple, it’s a coup.
One, I think the real situation and the truth is that you don’t know how to argue. Second, Rousseff violated Article 85, Article 8, 9, 10, and 11 of the Law 1079/50, Article 299 of the Brazilian Penal Code that addresses cloning and falsification of credit and debit cards, and Articles 359 (a) to 359 (c) of the Brazilian Penal Code. Third, you are a Brazilian, right? So, with all respect, I think you should read the Constitution and the Penal Code of your own country. They are very good readings. I personally like them a lot. Hope you have a nice day! :)
Dear Katsouranis,
Mr Konder Comparato and Mr. Dalmo Dallari, two of best and great Jurists in Brasil, specialized in Constitution, just say: “This is a COUP”. Are you better than these Jurists when we talk about Constitution?? Are you sure about it? By the time: Both Jurists never participated in any political party ant they are more than 79 years old.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.
Remember that authority is not exempt of bullshit, nor of bias.
Disregard the messenger, care about the message.
Since these authorities – and others – who claim there’s a coup have failed to prove their point so far, the fact they are experts on the subject is pointless.
Caique, I’m really trying to be open-minded, but people like you and the ones who defend the former government seem unable to produce a thorough argument and seldom prefer to insult the ones that do not have the same view that you, be it calling people “coxinha” or spitting on their faces. Can you explain why during the many protests against the former government, with millions of people in the street in many cities, we had no violence or destruction of public/private property, while the opposite is common in protests in favor of the former government? As an example, yesterday during the protest in front of Temer’s house in SP, the people destroyed bus stops and spray painted messages in people’s houses. Is this what you call democracy and respect?
I was once told to stop trying to debate here because people don’t care about arguments. Their leftwing brainwash is far too advanced to recognize the sucessor of Dilma’s impeachment was Dilma’s responsability once she made him vice president when she ran with him. They also fail to recognize that the people who demanded her impeachmeant, didnt and still dont care about Temer, he and his team can go either, as fast as Dilma was, what we demanded was the exit of a 13 years old theft scam covered as “government”. And in case Temer should go, what we cant accept is the return of Dilma, we want someone not implicated with corruption as Lula, Dilma and others are. Would be mister someone being president that do not belong to PT PMDB and PSDB.
I think you’re absolutely right, Thomas. It is very clear to me that they suffer from a leftwing brainwash. I mean, think about it! The only thing anyone has to do is to read the Brazilian laws. The law is very clear about what the president did. She violated the Article 85, Article 8, 9, 10, and 11 of the Law 1079/50, Article 299, and Articles 359 (a) to 359 (c) of the Brazilian Penal Code. So I think that these guys really need to read their own constitution and laws because it feels like they just don’t read them. They just keep saying that the Brazil’s impeachment is a coup, but they don’t give any solid reason for that. Weird.
The real question that you didn’t mention is will the Global 1%, put up with the actions of the Brazilian 1%?
Public opinion is one thing… The other oligarchs failing to come to your rescue is another.
Excelent! Please send this article to all jornalists you know abroad! Help us save our democracy!
Alguem vai ter q dar o Triplex e pedir JA’ DISCULPAS a Lula !!! A Ministra do SFT que convocou a Dilma para explicar pq chama de GOLPE (sem divudas) ao Impeachment tenra q chamar a Romero Juca para ele explicar melhor !!!!!!!!!!!! Dilma FICA QUERIDA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a Brazilian, I’d like to say “thank you”! Great article!
read . . . read . . . read . . . read . . . read . . . read . . . read . . . attempted homicide . . . I actually threw my arms up in the air! Jesus fucking Christ on a cracker.
Saw GG’s tweets about high-level meetings at which they are discussing selling off the state’s assets. The suffering will be terrible if they privatize everything.
Did anyone here mention that Dilma Russef kidnapped an US Ambassador in the seventies?
Any article about Brazil will sell so let’s tear it apart and promote reporters. Fantastic!
Let me understand this. You have rampant corruption among certain elites that just overthrew Brazil’s government, but you don’t want to see any reporting on it because it makes Brazil look bad? In US parlance, you are saying that GG is in the Hate Brazil First crowd? Or are you just saying that the coup was OK because Dilma was a kidnapper.
GG is in the Hate Brazil First crowd
LOL. Bound to happen. Time for a new cartoon with all the Portuguese versions of the old salon tossaway lines.
It’s Dissidents’ Groundhog Day!
Let me understand this. So you agree that PT’s 13 year government is loaded with corruption too? Are we all in the same side, or you want to justify that, as current government has corrupt politicians among it, we might as well remain with the previous?
Needless to remind that Mr. Dirceu has been sentenced to 23 years in jail (again, despite the possibility to appeal). Needless to remind that PT is also suspect of involvement in the assassination of Mr. Celso Daniel.
Why do you buy into the argument that the “elite” wants to keep the status quo and are against the poor? What do they have to gain? The people suffering the most with this economic disaster are the very poor the PT say they want to protect.
“as current government has corrupt politicians among it, we might as well remain with the previous?”
I said no such thing. But if a coup is carried out by people whose first order of business is to sell off state assets and push a privatization scheme, as one journo said, the like of which hasn’t been seen in decades in Brazil, then I certainly question their interest in helping the poor. The idea is ludicrous.
Well, it was 1969, actually. And I haven’t seen convincing evidence that Dilma was actually involved in that MR8 action — although it’s certainly possible.
By the way, has anyone here mentioned that the US Embassy and the State Department supported the 1964 coup and the brutal and murderous ruling junta for two decades?
Finally someone to speak the truth!
If true, good on Dilma! My country — the U.S. — has been fucking around in the nations of that region for far too long. Local opposition has my greatest respect.
Agreed! JFC, the suffering we have inflicted in Central and South America. The CIA has seen it as their own private playground. Resistance movements have justice on their side. Recall Bechtel’s water privatization in Bolivia and the resulting revolts. And the desaparecidos and secret detention centers in Argentina. The list never ends.
https://vimeo.com/16724719 War On Democracy – John Pilger
Thanks! Chavez’s abuela sounds so awesome. Gonna watch the whole thing soon.
How much longer than a “coup” such as this happens in the USA? The whole planet appears to be heading for similar situations as Brazil is experiencing now. The 1% against the 99%. How much longer before it all implodes?
Local and regional and national and global movements have been sparked everywhere. All kinds of far-seeing people are doing things to make change–people and actions that we will never hear about, that the oligarchs deliberately want to keep out of the news. The signs are there that these people are making inroads. E.g., if BDS were not successful, Israel would not be frantically trying to outlaw it. And despite having the weight of the fawning media, of the DNC, of the president, and of all the banks and corporations and local Dems behind her to keep the message of her inevitability in people’s minds, HRC has been caught unawares by a guy calling himself a socialist. We are in an era of grotesque overreach, and something will give eventually.
I agree about the overreach, and it seems our ‘leaders’ and media are unaware of its effect, so insulated are they in their DC/NY bubbles. For us folks outside the bubble, though, we’re left to choose between levels of corruption, not the absence or presence of it. Sad days, indeed, which my more optimistic side hopes will ultimately lead to better understanding of and more participation in the democratic process everywhere.
Another exceptional summary and explication, Glenn. Bravo! (And be careful out there.)
I notice that “Chef Mueller” and his digital death squad haven’t shown up in this thread, yet. I guess it’s hard to concoct even the most remotely plausible story in the wake of these revelations — even for people who aren’t all that concerned with plausibility.
it (he?) got deleted – https://theintercept.com/2016/05/19/watch-first-interview-with-brazils-president-dilma-rousseff-since-the-senates-impeachment-vote/
Well, if so, I can’t say I’m sorry. I almost never request, or even approve of, deletion of posts, but that creature qualified for an exception. Yuck.
Farewell syphilitic imbeciles! … “if I wanted to hear another ass talking, I’d fart!”
*The Chef
Yeah, we’re used to putting up with some vile visitors (and a few of our regulars are a little iffy, as well ;^) , but O Chefe is a standout.
Great news, great article…as usual….Since Snowden disclosure haven’t been so happily shaken to see the truth back dangerous events! It will be interesting to see how the corporate media will (if they do) present the facts. Importantly so, how Latin American governments that demonstrated such lukewarm response to a clear plot, will react. I read the interview and I wonder whether Dilma did have a hidden card, many answers points to that. Anyway, thank you!
The formal abandonment of health care as a right, despite constitutional guarantees, is not merely terrible – it is a direct illustration that class warfare is indeed war, with real casualties. And it is a call to commit comparable acts of retribution, as is well within the capabilities of the donor class.
From http://www.abto.org.br/abtov03_ingles/Upload/file/BrazilianTransplantationRegistry/rbt-ing-parc.pdf it is apparent that Brazil performs thousands of organ transplants annually, actually being a second in the world to the U.S. Tens of thousands are on waiting lists. 72% of families said no to transplants, others said yes. It has been entirely up to them.
If Brazil abandons public health guarantees, and the poor who die young and violent deaths fail to be themselves eligible for transplants, then an obvious retaliation is possible. Declare a boycott, and refuse to tribute the organs to those wealthy vampires who can still afford them. Over the course of a few years it would kill more people, all among the upper class, than the September 11th attacks – and it would do so all beautifully out in the open. Each person, each decision, could be publicly made without much real fear of retribution. Oh, yes, to watch those poor rich kids waste away, very sad. People would probably embrace some hardcore Jehovah Witness style beliefs, tell themselves it’s like putting down a zombie on Walking Dead. But whatever you call it, it would be a way for the poor to remind the rich that just because it’s not legal to pay them for services they do doesn’t mean that they’re not dependent on those services anyway.
True, I suppose eventually the military would start forcing “donations” at gunpoint, if not taking people off the street to make them fresh, but then the doctors would be in a squawk and the whole situation would degrade. They’d be hard pressed to reverse the effect of it.
most interesting document. not to forget ph 8 (i was a 9) & flush much. look into it.
First off,stay safe.
Hopefully the Brazilian people will stop this undemocratic effort and prevent the thugs from taking over.
It is up to them.
One other point, Snowden = more intrusion and spying – LuxLeaks = the perpetrator becoming head of the EC – Panama Papers = zip
These revelations will likely produce about the same. We’ll see what happens even with a smoking gun they still have the military behind them.
The phenomenon of oligarch/Neoliberal/authoritarian governmental corruption is right out in the open (lying to congress with no consequence) with the attitude of – yah, don’t like it check out our new stealth destroyer.
They are so powerful now they don’t even need to hide the corruption any more.
Power – oligarch power is unafraid and unashamed and winning just about everywhere.
Public opinion and public action is the only force I know of that can be effective against oligarch power and it just seems very weak to me. Maybe in Brazil the culture will produce something positive but in most Western countries the populations are completely unwilling to act.
Romero Jucá, and former oil executive Sergio Machado — both of whom are formal targets of the “Car Wash” corruption investigation — as they agree that removing Dilma is the only means for ending the corruption investigation. The conversations also include discussions of the important role played in Dilma’s removal by the most powerful national institutions, including — most importantly — Brazil’s military leaders. “I am talking to the generals, the military commanders. They are fine with this, they said they will guarantee it.”
Now do we see why China executes people involved in corruption?
The U.S. is on track to be the most corrupt country on the planet if it is not already.
As God is my witness and Jesus is my savior, I tell you the truth. We need to put an end to this sort of stuff. Those yet to be born into this world cannot be whole nor happy when everything is owned by the wealthy and families are mined for their productivity. The hording of wealth is evil. The private ownership of life support without guarantee and individual and immediate recourse is evil. Evil is that which destroys or suppresses any individual human life and development.
The new convention for life on this planet, your planet, my planet, our planet, must be called and convened. Politicians welcomed as spectators only. This must be done. It shall be done. I command it. And so should you.
Bravo! thanks for sharing the truth about what´s happening in Brazil.
It seems to me that a return of Dilma or elections in which Lula or someone from the left are pretty much nonstarters. While GG makes an appeal to public opinion through polling numbers it is hard to believe that public opinion matters much, it’s all about the military – they (with the guidance of the US) will protect the oligarchy, the names of the new “leaders” of Brazil will no doubt change but Brazil is now a right wing oligarch controlled authoritarian country.
“Brazil is now a right wing oligarch controlled authoritarian country.”
Almost like the totalitarian US, until they can get the 24×7 surveillance panopticon & snitch infrastructure in place. I’m sure the US taxpayer/voter will be eager to help.
So, where does this leave the Olympic Games? I believe that the United States has laws against supporting governments post coup? Sending a delegation of athletes to a country that has an illegitimate government in place may be against US law.
Don’t be silly. US sent its teams to Germany in 1936 and to Russia in 2014. We cannot allow our government to interfere with the profitability of the TV networks.
The more significant risk associated with the Olympics is the potential for spreading Zika virus further faster.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/12/rio-olympics-zika-amir-attaran-public-health-threat
The assessments of the effects of this virus are rapidly evolving, but the risk of spreading it further are significant, especially in and around Rio, which has some of the highest rates of infection in the country. And the WHO, kowtowing to economic interests yet again, is not helping with it’s tepid assurances.
How else can we make it a global pandemic? Those poor mosquitos don’t have the lifespan or airspeed to do it themselves.
Just add several tens of thousands of foreign tourists from every continent on the planet. Zika is a smart enough virus that it doesn’t mind being spread by human to human contact.
It doesn’t really matter here in the US. We already have it.
Remember the case of Honduras, a clear coup d’état, the USG simply decided not to define it as such and therefore didn’t have to alter its relationship and could support the illegitimate government and help it develop a thin façade of legality via new elections. Hillary Clinton addressed this (disingenuously, I’d argue) in her interview with the New York Daily News editorial board:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-hillary-clinton-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2596292
I believe that the United States has laws against supporting governments post coup?
LOL.
1. The US has laws against everything.
2. The laws of the US are for appearances only.
3. The laws against supporting govts post coup do not apply to those govts where the US aided and abetted said coup. (Egypt etal)
Not to be forgotten is that the US (Obama, Kerry, etc.), equally tendentiously, also refused to declare Sisi’s overthrow of Morsi @ Egypt a “coup”. Had they ever done so, then the US would not have been able — legally, as per US law — to keep on shelling out to Egypt the billions in annual military aid by means of which the US bribes Egypt into a pacifist stance vis-a-vis Israel, located of course right next-door.
It will be interesting to see if the United States will take any action. You know, since it is so proud of supporting democracy across the world.
Of course we can count on the US to fully support the Junta and the Brazilian military. Here are some important reasons:
1. Dilma was one of the most outspoken critics of the NSA and GCHQ in the wake of the Snowden revelations, earning her the eternal enmity of the US establishment;
2. US oil companies stand to profit mightily from the Brazilian privatization of their oil industry;
3. US corporations in general strongly support the neoliberal agenda of the Junta; and
4. The US MIC stands to profit from weapons sales to the Brazilian military.
The best case scenario for the US is for there to be an armed uprising because that translates into more weapons sales.
Obviously an call between two Brasilian ministers is going to be newsworthy, none of them are boy scouts. I’m am American-Brasilian and I can tell everyone that in my experience I have yet to heard someone singing Dilma’s cause. Of course, I don’t attend the PT sponsored rallies. If it was a coup, then their constitution allows them. And FYI Glenn, the Landless Movement is not is not a gathering of poor souls looking to till the the land, they are organized, PT supported, gangs of people who invade ranches owned by others and hold the land for ransom. Where I come from those people would be shot. You guys might want to direct your saving the world for democracy to Brasil’s neighbors and allies. Imagine what the nSA has on tape from their recordings down here? That would surely shatter your preferred world view.
Now we’re seeing what’s been told for months, even years. They can’t protect themselves if they are not in the head of this process. They’ve known this for years. Now that we are facing a economy crisis, they try to justify this impeachment. And 2 weeks later, noting happens. Anything changes and they won’t change. But they prove that the major problem isn’t Dilma. Our major problem are they as we’ve been announcing along this whole time. I’ve seen this moment being like 2013. It started with just a little motive that grew bigger than we thought it would be. All media, then, ignored. But then they couldn’t deny. This is likely to be the same this year. We just have to wait.
Thanks for the great reporting, and for picking up the unfortunate slack from Brazilian media. What a dramatic time in Brazil: every week, even every day, there’s a truly astounding revelation. I hope that people continue to refuse to accept the ugly, corrupt leaders that rule over their country.
One small typo: in pp8, you guys have “fire houses” instead of “fire hoses”.
cheers
“O Aécio vai ser o primeiro a ser comido”
Esse gif humoristico cita bem o que está acontecendo: https://i.imgur.com/x8SySkb.gif
Were foreign nations involved in this coup? If not foreign governments, then foreign transnationals? Brazil has become a dumping ground for all kinds of products that are banned everywhere else, as well as a testing ground for not-yet-approved products – pesticides, medicine, vaccines, genetically modified mosquitoes are some that come to mind. Powerful industries need Brazil to be friendly toward them; otherwise, what would they do with their untested & banned products?
I would also like to know that.
The usual suspect (in the singular !) is the most likely culprit as it has always been the deciding force in who gets in & who gets kicked out/stays out.
The PT had been in power for too long, and those corrupt politicians presented a perfect opportunity to act as the executioners.
In Venezuela Maduro is a complete zero, but our usual suspect is undoubtedly lending a helpful hand, although not much is needed. Bolivia & Ecuador will be next on the list to end all those evil left-wing governments.
It’s sickening.
Oh yeah,I notice all those left wing govts sending troops all over the world with hundreds of bases in foreign countries,and body counts,since WW2, in multiple millions.sheesh.
The figurehead potus was in Vietnam stirring more shite for the Vietnamese I noticed today,right after playing whackamole on people who are only defending themselves from that actual right wing entity,USzion.
. . . Escobar explained that there is an effort to “reverse the pink decades,” and that it extends beyond the US government and the media. “Lula had a close relationship with the Cuban government, he was against Western business exploitation which influenced all of Latin America, and the US found this unbearable, but it is Big Oil that has the grudge against Lula.”
He explained that state-owned PetroBras discovered and took sole claim to the “pre-salt” oil field, the largest oil deposit discovered in the 21st century, under Lula’s leadership. “US companies like Exxon-Mobil tried to swoop in to claim the oil, but Lula repelled them and now it is a gold mine of Brazilian wealth.”
However, there is a renewed effort by Western interests to pillage Brazil’s oil wealth from the pre-salt discovery. “Now you see the Brazilian senate trying to change the law to open up the oil field to foreign companies and this is something that the Workers Party has always refuted so that is the very big reason for foreign intervention.”
. . .”We are in a very dangerous situation,” said [Brazilian Journalist Priscilla] Chandretti. “There were a lot of illegalities in how the carwashing investigation was conducted from the very beginning, so you have the judiciary trying to take a place within the political process, trying to influence it.”
Escobar agreed, suggesting that the timing of the entire investigation is curious. “They seized on Dilma when she took office because Dilma is not a statesperson like Lula was. Lula is a statesman, a candid negotiator, and a first class politician, whatever his faults, and whether or not the corruption allegations against him are proven, but Dilma is more like a low level manager.”
Escobar, holds out hope that the Brazilian government will be able to fend off the latest flurry of foreign sabotage. “If Lula goes back to the government now, and if he runs again in 2018, he will win, that is a fact, he is the most popular president in Brazil. This means the Workers’ Party will be in power for the next 10 years which the Brazilian elites and the US see as unbearable.”
Sputnik News
Now, I’ like to see magistrates from the Supreme Court arrested for obstruction of justice and # #coup to overthrow a government elected by 54 million votes.
Agora, quero ver ministros do STF presos por ?#?obstrução? da justiça e ?#?golpe? para derrubar um governo eleito por 54 milhões de votos.
Just wow. For me, this puts a whole new light on Dilma’s trying to appoint Lula to her administration. The optics there looked pretty bad, but given the appalling actors and forces they’re dealing with I can see why she would have wanted to extend him some protection.
Well, if the military, the court, the legislature and the media are all plotting against you. You are pretty much F’ed!
Thank you for doing what the main media outlets in Brazil seem unable to do: provide a critical piece that connects the dots. Folha’s piece is a joke, it only narrates the contents of the conversation. There is no analysis and the reader can only cringe at what is being exposed, nothing else. I too believe that it’s time for media outlets to use the proper terminology to describe what is taking place right before our eyes: a coup. Temer is not the president I elected. His government plan is not the one I elected. It’s very disconcerting and revolting to witness what is happening.
I assure you the people I know here in Sampa who have supported the coup from the start will ignore even the superficial coverage in today’s Folha. They’re tired of it and want to ‘move on’. These particular people have more in common with Americans then myself (born in Texas).
I must say the headline did strike me this morning, glaring at me from my doorstep, just 12 hours after I criticized Folha for having nothing on yesterday’s front page about the suddenly boring and passe Lava Jato story.
Great story. All is now clear. It WAS a coup to enable the corrupt to end the car wash corruption investigation.
Temer RESIGN! New elections NOW!