No American has been more associated with the Navy SEAL mystique than Chris Kyle, known as the deadliest sniper in U.S. military history. His bestselling autobiography, American Sniper — a story of honor, glory, and quiet heroism — has sold more than a million copies. The movie adaptation became the highest-grossing war film in American history.
“All told,” Kyle wrote in his book, “I would end my career as a SEAL with two Silver Stars and five Bronze [Stars], all for valor.”
But Kyle, who was murdered by a fellow military veteran several years after leaving the Navy, embellished his military record, according to internal Navy documents obtained by The Intercept. During his 10 years of military service and four deployments, Kyle earned one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars with Valor, a record confirmed by Navy officials.
Kyle was warned at least once before American Sniper was published that its description of his medal count was wrong, according to one current Navy officer, who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak about the case. As Kyle’s American Sniper manuscript was distributed among SEALs, one of his former commanders, who was still on active duty, advised Kyle that his claim of having two Silver Stars was false, and he should correct it before his book was published.
Current and former Navy SEALs interviewed for this article, who agreed to speak on background because they feared being shunned by their close-knit community, did not dispute Kyle’s heroism in combat, but saw the inflation of his medal count as significant because they consider battlefield embellishments to be dishonorable.
The Silver Star, the third-highest award given for battlefield conduct, is considered a prestigious commendation.
The discrepancy raises new questions about Kyle’s credibility and highlights a continuing controversy in the SEAL community over members exaggerating or distorting their war records. In one high-profile controversy, two members of SEAL Team 6 engaged in a public dispute over who deserved credit for the fatal shots that killed Osama bin Laden.
Within the military community, embellishing medals and achievements — so-called stolen valor — is considered a serious ethical violation. In 1996, Adm. Jeremy Boorda, who was then the highest-ranking uniformed naval officer, committed suicide after questions were raised about two valor pins — known as “devices” — he wore on his uniform for service during the Vietnam War. It was later determined that he was not authorized to wear the “V” devices.
According to two current Navy officials, inaccurate information about Kyle’s awards is also contained in his separation document, known in the military as a DD214, which usually reflects a veteran’s official service record. Kyle’s DD214 form, which lists two Silver Stars and six Bronze Stars with Valor among his decorations, also differs from the number of Bronze Stars with Valor — five — that Kyle listed in his book.
The Navy provided records for one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars with Valor after The Intercept requested all documentation related to Kyle’s medals. The Navy Department Awards System maintains records of the official awards. Navy officials could not say why Kyle’s separation papers contained inaccurate information about his medals, but one official described Kyle as a “decorated war hero” and questioned the “motivations” of looking into Kyle’s account.
“The Navy considers the individual service member’s official military personnel file and our central official awards records to be the authoritative sources for verifying entitlement to decorations and awards,” said Cullen James, a spokesperson for the Navy Personnel Command, in a statement emailed to The Intercept. “The form DD214 is generated locally at the command where the service member is separated. Although the information on the DD214 should match the official records, the process involves people and inevitably some errors may occur.”
Normally, the personnel clerk handling a sailor’s separation is required to ensure that the awards match the service member’s official personnel file. It is unclear whether that was done in the case of Kyle’s DD214.
“Given [Kyle’s] celebrity, you’d think the Navy would have gone back and fixed the discrepancy,” said one Navy official, who was not authorized to speak on the record. “But he’s only got the three Bronze and one Silver Star.”
Kyle separated from the Navy in 2009 after almost 11 years as a SEAL. In 2013, he was murdered in Texas by a fellow veteran struggling with mental health problems.
A public memorial service for Kyle held at Cowboys Stadium near Dallas drew nearly 7,000 people.
Since the publication of American Sniper, Kyle’s exploits in Iraq during the height of the war have taken on almost mythic proportions and many of his fellow soldiers regard his actions during his four deployments in Iraq as heroic. During the November 2004 American siege of Fallujah, for example, Kyle saved an injured Marine’s life by dragging him to safety while taking and returning fire down an alleyway.
Kyle also wrote in his book that he had 160 “confirmed kills” as a sniper. Service members in battle largely self-report the number of enemy combatants they kill.
“SEALs are silent warriors, and I’m a SEAL down to my soul,” Kyle wrote in American Sniper. “If you want to check me out, ask a SEAL.”
Two members of the SEAL community said that while Kyle’s actions under fire were commendable, he tarnished his accomplishments through misrepresentation.
“It takes away from the legitimate heroism he showed,” said a retired SEAL who was deployed to Iraq when Kyle was also deployed there.
The 2004 incident resulted in a Bronze Star with Valor, one of three that Kyle was awarded. That action was recommended by his commanding officers for a Silver Star, but it was denied by the secretary of the Navy at the time. Kyle was aware that the Silver Star was denied, according to his autobiography, and did not count it among the two Silver Stars he claimed to receive. He did not say in the book what either of those Silver Stars were for.
Retired Army Lt. Col. Robert Bateman, a military historian, said that public reports of stolen valor became more common in the decade after the Vietnam War. Bateman also said it was inexcusable that Kyle, or any other veteran, would inflate his record, even if the veteran, like Kyle, had demonstrated clear heroism during his service.
Résumé inflation may be less of a scandal for civilians, Bateman said, but for those in the military “some elements are paid in blood.”
A retired SEAL officer said several of Kyle’s commanding officers were aware that he had misrepresented how many decorations he had collected. The retired officer attended the ceremony for Kyle’s single Silver Star, which was awarded to him for a 2006 deployment in Ramadi, Iraq. “During 32 sniper overwatch missions,” the citation reads, “he personally accounted for 91 confirmed enemy fighters killed.”
When asked if he had been aware of Kyle’s inaccurate accounting of his awards, Jocko Willink, one of Kyle’s former commanding officers, said, “Chris Kyle, like many of the SEALs, soldiers, and Marines I had the honor to serve with, deserve much more than whatever ribbons and medals they received.”
Another former commanding officer, Leif Babin, declined to comment. Willink and Babin co-authored a book, Extreme Ownership, which details their time commanding SEALs in Iraq. It includes a section about Kyle’s prowess as a sniper, but does not tally his medals.
This is not the first time that Kyle has been accused of misrepresentation. In 2014, just over a year after Kyle’s death, a Minnesota jury found that he had lied in American Sniper and defamed former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura by claiming to have punched Ventura out at a bar in Coronado, California. The jury awarded Ventura, who served in a precursor unit to the Navy SEALs during the Vietnam War, $1.8 million in damages and ordered Kyle’s widow, Taya Kyle, to pay. (Taya Kyle is appealing the ruling.)
When contacted by The Intercept, Taya Kyle, through a representative, declined to comment about her husband’s service record.
The former SEAL officer who attended Kyle’s Silver Star ceremony said it was a poorly kept secret in the naval special operations community that Kyle embellished his record. “The SEAL leadership was aware of the embellishment, but didn’t want to correct the record because Kyle’s celebrity status reflected well on the command.”
“Everybody went on a pilgrimage to his funeral at Cowboys Stadium,” the ex-SEAL said, “knowing full well his claims weren’t true.”
Related:
Correction: May 25, 2016
An earlier version of this story incorrectly referred to Chris Kyle as the deadliest sniper in military history. He is known as the deadliest sniper in U.S. military history.
To quote Colonel Nathan Jessup, the fictional character from A Few Good Men:
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Mr. Cole:
You cite unnamed sources when you trash the memory of Chris Kyle but not once put a name to the supposed authorities who claim Kyle embellished his accomplishments. Why is that? If he was such a liar, you mean to tell me that NO ONE with the authority to speak on behalf of the military would go on record to straighten this matter out?
Chris Kyle and those like him, who gave their lives “for the very freedom” you enjoy to write such garbage, knew that their sacrifices would be abused by scabs like you. They did it anyway. That’s what is ironic about what they have done and continue to do.
I have yet to hear one valid reason for the need for medals. The military is a job. Do your job to the best of your ability and either stay in or get out. wtf
Things are not always what we want them to be.
http://mpmacting.com/blog/2014/7/19/truth-justice-and-the-curious-case-of-chris-kyle
Only Jesse (the pussy) Ventura would sue the widow of Chris Kyle.
Ross –
I don’t think you fully understand the Ventura case. Here are some resources that might give you a different, more nuanced, perspective on it.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado
http://mpmacting.com/blog/2014/7/19/truth-justice-and-the-curious-case-of-chris-kyle
Im a staunch pacifist and do not glorify the military at all, but is this really news? Does it really reflect well on the Intercept to spend time and resources to publish a story about a dead guy having two medals less than he claimed while alive?
Don’t get me wrong, I knew long ago that he lied about many things in his book, but this story is no better than other smear tactics the MSM does regularly and I hope this place doesn’t fall into that trap.
1) If Ventura was so adamant that Kyle was lying, why did he wait until Kyle was dead? 2) Ventura was not a SeAL “precursor”. He was UDT. There’s a difference. 3) If you’re so stuck on medals and how many our national heroes have, why don’t you have any? I don’t see you on the front lines or even close to the fight, so I’d advise you to voice a reasonable opinion.
https://sofrep.com/55558/rick-perry-truth-american-sniper-chris-kyle/
Hey FuckOff…you’re a real genius. You are a great example of the mid less nitwits who blindly support Kyle. Let’s go through how stupid and uninformed you are.
1. Ventura filed suit against Kyle in 2012…a year before Kyle was killed. Kyle even gave a 5 hour deposition in the case. This deposition was very damaging to Kyle because he couldn’t keep his story straight.
2. Even other SEALs like Marcus Luttrell, and Brandon Webb(from SOFREP), and the Navy itself, consider Ventura to be a SEAL. He has the Trident and everything.
3. Your third point is so idiotic it boggles the mind. Kyle lied about so much…the Ventura fight, the carjacker story, the Katrina story…why on earth should he be given the benefit of the doubt here? The writers aren’t “stuck on medals”, you are stuck on having a man crush on Kyle.
My advice to you is to stop being a fucking dumb-ass, ill informed dupe…and to inform yourself…either that or I’d advise you to shut the fuck up. You do your side of the argument no favors sharing your moronic thoughts.
Just like a libtard to leave ad hominum comments
Leigh….A few points.
1. It’s funny that you don’t actually know what “ad hominum” means but use the term to try and sound intelligent. I’ll fill you in on a little something to help you out…”ad hominum” and insult are not synonyms.
2. You’ll be disappointed to know that I am not a liberal.
3. According to the incorrect definition of “ad hominum” you used in your comment, the overwhelming majority of people commenting in support of Chris Kyle are making “ad hominum” attacks. Which I guess makes them…what…Chris-Tards? Kyle-Tards?
In conclusion Leigh, you and FuckOff are dopes. That is not an “ad hominum” argument, that is an observable fact.
Have a great day.
This is the new form spitting on our soldiers has taken. Let’s nitpick every single detail and then trash them after they die.
I have said it many times that nothing amazes me anymore at the lows liberals will stoop to these days.
I’m sure he would have been just as happy staying at home and getting fat and happy off the land like a lot of you have done. But, he was asked to do something a lot more dangerous and he did it and performed in that role very well. And liberals are still figuratively spitting on him.
Thanks for nothing, “authors”.
The DD214 is the final authority on a Service Members record. Anything else would be the inaccurate reflection of that. 20 years in research might not be enough for her if she can’t even find that out for an article. Hack writers. No journalistic integrity from either of you. RETRACTION!!!!
The DD214 clearly states Silver Star 2 w/V and Bronze Star 5…so you are wrong.
Can we not all just agree that this man was responsible and complicit in the mass slaughter of other human beings who where basically the same as him, based on orders given by people who couldn’t care less about him and celebrate him for the great gift of murder, violence and terror he brought to this world. Hallelujah! This world needs more hate between people because they are born on different pieces of rock.
No, we cannot agree on the tripe running around in that demented head of yours.
Terror??? You know nothing of terror. I suggest you research who the real terrorists are, and stop denigrating the men PAID to take out the REAL terrorists…
Your story has been discredited by Chris Kyle’s DD214, why no correction on that? Kyle underestimated his medals, he had 2 silver stars and SIX bronze stars?
You two REMFS have no clue. The DD 214 reflects nothing, it is the official record or the service member which never falls into the hands of the unit one serves in. You are pathetic.
What a fucking liberal scumbag “attempted” takedown of a dead American Hero.
Karma can be a savage expression of justice as you will see…
Come on! How dispicable can you get. This is one of the most unprofessionally researched articles written in a long time. You 2 should be terminated immediately.
What else should we expect from the jealous progressive liberal men of today. This is why you’re stuck working for a no-name progressive rag.
I believe the author is wrong. It has been verified on Kyles DD214 that he did receive two silver stars and 5 bronze stars. So much for research. Maybe katie Couric could assist him
Waiting for you to correct your story but not holding my breath. Wondering why you did this on memorial day. Says a lot about you. Keep up the sloppy reporting. The liberals lap it up like Kool-Aid.
http://theresurgent.com/turns-out-american-sniper-chris-kyle-was-a-bigger-hero-than-previously-thought/
Please retract this, for your own credibility is at stake.
Unreal , MR. Chris Kyle was and still is a great AMERICAN HERO . Did you have any family that came back safe because of men REAL MEN like Chis Kyle ? Let me tell you my family did her name is Laceigh she is now 26 . So many AMERICAN men and women came home and how dare you not check your facts, oh yes I remember now Chris Kyle and my Niece Laceigh and so many others fought to give you the right to lie , they put it all on the line so you have the FREEDOM to put it on the line . You should be ashamed. If the children of Mr. Kyle read this stupid story they know none of it is true.
Aunt Sandi Baker
Two Silver Stars and (6) Bronze Stars with V-device…I don’t think you can get the V-device and (5) oak leaf clusters on a the ribbon…God, what a man!
Obviously, they needed a new avenging angel in heaven. He’s home.
They need avenging angels in heaven?
You should be ashamed of yourself for such a hack job trying to disparage a true American hero who made great sacrifices for our country.
DD214 record is clear – he actually under reported. The dd214 is the official gold standard document
What has happened to the field of journalism ? This and Katie Couric orchestrating an outright fraud and offering a lame apology.
Pete Bradley
You need to correct your assertions regarding Fmr Admiral Boorda and the allegations he was not authorized to wear the two “V’s” on his medals.
Former CNO Admiral Elmo Zumwalt said on the May 17, 1996 Larry King Live show that Admiral Boorda was not only authorized to wear the “V” on his medals, but that had personally authorized him to do so when he was serving as Commander Naval Forces Vietnam.
When it turned out that Boorda was entitled to those decorations, blame shifted to stresses over the down sizing of the Navy, and even (Washington Times) the adverse affect that feminism was having on the Navy’s morale.
Boorda supposedly left two suicide notes, neither of which was released.
On Thursday, June 25, 1998, Navy Secretary John Dalton formally acknowledged that Boorda had been entitled to wear the decorations.
If Chris Kyle’s DD214 stated he had the awards he had then your article is nothing more then character assassination on a person who because he was murdered cannot defend himself. Makes you wonder what your agenda truly is.
The DD Form 214 is the only official record of a person’s military service. PERIOD. Did any of you even try to talk to any of Kyle’s family members, to try and investigate the discrepancy? Of course not. That would have spoiled your made-up story, with the obvious agenda of bashing a military hero because you guys dislike the military in general.
It’s stories like this that make the average American not believe anything the media has to say. No one is listening to you guys anymore. You’ve done it to yourselves, you dummies.
I think the surviving members of Kyle’s family should sue you guys for your lies. But they’ve probably figured out, just like most other Americans, that what your e-rage has to say just doesn’t matter anymore. So sit in your little left-wing echo chamber and tell all the lies you want. Just know that no one is listening to you.
Matthew, you are a worthless slime to print such bs crap on Memorial Day without doing your homework, why not print truth on Hillary’s stone walling of the email, Bengazi and other events, Obama’s fast and furious other liberal driven topics instead of trying to lie and devalue a true American hero.
You are pathetic.
Leave him alone, he’s DEAD!
Your article is wrong, shame on you!
You should be deported!!!
2-Silver Stars
6- Bronze Stars W/ Valor
Shame shame shame! Check his navy separation papers. He recived six Bronze Stars !
SIX Bronze Stars and TWO Silver Stars. Bashing Kyle qualifies you as feckless scumbags of the year…
Thank you, Chris! You served with honor. Something these libtard socialists know nothing about.
TAKE THIS OFFENSIVE LIBEL DOWN! How can you call yourselves journalists when you piss on the truth so you can try to hurt the name of a man who is and always will be greater than you. You are the degenerate rats that give journalists bad names and make the world’s people mistrust journalists. Other commenters have told you the truth with supporting evidence. We know you now know your article is a lie. Why do you keep trying to mislead your readers? TAKE THIS OFFENSIVE LIBEL DOWN!
Re:
There is nothing heroic or patriotic about intentionally participating in or encouraging cowardly acts of violence while pretending such crimes against humanity are committed in the defense and pursuit of peace and liberty. Kyle, sadly, comes across as merely one of many young people who fall prey to jingoistic propaganda, only to be transformed into weaponized sociopaths operating under the guise of uniformed national service.
As Usual,
EA
Matt and Sheelagh,
Apparently, all you care about is trying to discredit an American veteran and have no knowledge of what you writing about. The DD214 is the only official US government document that list your final medals and awards. Any person claiming there were discrepancies in his official DD214 is a liar. Only the personnel office fills out and completes the DD214 after reviewing the member’s records and awards on file. Nothing extra gets added and the member has no influence on what is added to it. The fact you have no clue about this shows your ignorance and failed attempt to discredit an American veteran that has shown great sacrifice and honor. By the way, snipers operate in two man teams and a kill must be confirmed by both or in combination with other forces in the engagement. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Ivan –
Unlike other American military snipers, Navy SEALs do not use a spotter. And I have bad news for you…the Pentagon, the Department of the Navy and the Special Operations Command all do not keep “confirmed kill” statistics. Did you know that? Probably not. I will use a quote from your own comment that applies to you..
“The fact that you have no clue shows your ignorance….You should be ashamed of yourself.”
http://www.antiwar.com/rep/flynn1.html
The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor
by John T. Flynn
October 1945
On Wednesday, August 29, 1945, President Truman gave out the reports of the Army and Navy Boards directed by Congress to investigate the responsibility for the great disaster of December 7, 1941, at Pearl Harbor. These Boards had filed their reports nine months ago. Under the pretext that issuance of them would disclose important military secrets President Roosevelt suppressed them. But President Truman has not by any means given out the whole story. Portions of it are still suppressed. He says they will never be given out. And that is the simple truth. They will never be given out by this government until Congress compels the government to release all the information which it is hiding from the people and which it hopes to hide from history.
Pathetic. Each DD 214 is etched in stone, isn’t changed, and doesn’t get hidden. I assume this childish Pearl Harbor thing was supposed to have a point, but it’s simply ridiculous.
That is totally incorrect. I got out from active duty in 1981, and my DD214 had never been updated since basic training in 1978. I have the awards to prove that is was never updated. It doesn’t even show a GCM which everyone gets after 3 years service. My outprocessing was done by bored, lazy people with zero interest in doing anything other than the bare minimum, which is why I got out. Too many minorities in for the ride, not the service.
This article is both grossly incorrect and despicable. You should ashamed of yourself.
Liar liar, your pants are on fire. Go do so real research before posting inaccurate [email protected] like this.
At issue is a disparity between Kyle’s account in his book, “American Sniper,” records obtained from a seemingly indifferent Navy through a Freedom of Information Act request and Kyle’s official DD-214. The first mentioned two Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars, the Navy listed one Silver Star and 3 Bronze Stars and the DD-214 credited him with TWO Silver Stars and SIX Bronze Stars. This final document, the DD-214, is THE final word in a military members service. In short, he received MORE AWARDS than he stated. So his “lie” shortchanged himself. The left wing journalist who wrote this is attempting to discredit a man whose national worth is beyond reproach. Epic fail.
BTW, the mention of Jesse Ventura is a joke. While his service in our military is commendable, being a “professional” wrestler or governor doesn’t mean crap to me. Why don’t they just refer to him what he actually is, an actor.
Today roughly 0.5% of the U.S. population serves in the military. Reading the comments here I think it is easy to see the disconnect between those who serve or have served, and those who have no idea what it’s like to serve.
I served in the Navy between the first Gulf War and 9/11, but I was not mobilized overseas, and I saw no combat; as a result, I don’t feel like a true veteran in the same way this current generation of Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen (and also those who fought in prior wars), because I did not have to make the sacrifices they’ve made. So I think it’s extremely difficult for the general public, who have no concept about what it means to serve, to gain any perspective about the sacrifices the small minority of the population make to defend this country. (It should be noted there’s also a socioeconomic divide in who serves as well). I hear a lot of casual “thanks for your service” comments, but those words seem like political correctness and, in my opinion, often lack sincerity.
With these thoughts in mind, here’s my opinion: by the vast majority of accounts Chris Kyle served his country admirably and with honor. Perhaps he embellished some things, and if he did it was a mistake. We should all strive for accuracy in our accounting of the events of our lives. But what does this say? He was a flawed human being? Aren’t we all? Regardless, he “only” earned a few Bronze and Silver stars? He sacrificed much more for his country than 99.5% of Americans today, and many more throughout history. So I am not surprised at all to read the outrage in some of the comments here, and even though journalists are supposed to seek the truth, one has to question the motivations of the authors in digging up this information now, even if they’re correct. Chris Kyle was not only a man, but a symbol of the disconnect between those who serve and those who don’t.
My suspicion is that if the civilian critics of Chris Kyle had served in the military, they might soften their opinions. So I think we need compulsory military service for 2 years, for all socioeconomic groups, as they do for example in Israel. Maybe our country won’t be as divided is it now seems. Some shared sacrifice is a good thing. In my opinion, it’s why the WWII generation is considered by many to be “the greatest”.
I think you might be confused about the meanings of the words “admirably,” “honor,” and “embellished.”
No, I recognize there’s subjectivity to my interpretation. I understand the arguments on the other side.
In my long-winded post, I was simply making an argument that we often tend to be harsh and absolutist when commenting on issues, especially when granted relative anonymity on an internet chat room. I think this reflects a divide in this country on many issues, and certainly there are a number of reasons for this. In my opinion, one of the great divides is between the small number of people that serve in the military versus the vast majority who don’t, and I was struck when reading the comments that the preponderance of supportive comments for Chris Kyle were coming from people who served (at least in my anecdotal, non-scientific totaling of the “data”).
So in absolutist terms, yes you could say Chris Kyle lied about some things, and you could vilify him for that. Or you could take the viewpoint that, like all of us, he was a flawed person who made mistakes, and that shouldn’t completely diminish the sacrifices he made for his country. This is especially true when SO FEW PEOPLE MAKE THOSE SACRIFICES TODAY. I think this is something a reasonable person can do whether or not you agree or disagree with the wars Chris Kyle fought in or the means by which he did the job he was assigned to do by the Commander in Chief and military brass.
I’m reluctant to use the word “hero” because I think it’s an over-used term that has lost its meaning, but I’ll use it here for brevity: In absolutists’ terms, Chris Kyle is either a hero or a murderer. In reality – in my reality – things tend to be much more nuanced, and in that world, he’s a flawed hero, but a hero nonetheless. There are men walking around today because of his actions, and if you’d ask them, I’m sure they do not mind his exaggerations.
And also confused about whom or what Chris Kyle (and many, many others) served.
I admit I am confused by this comment. Do you mean that the Iraq War was unjustified, since no Iraqis were involved in the 9/11 attacks used to justified that war? If so, I agree. However, it’s a slippery slope when we start disparaging the service of those who fight our wars. That should have been a lesson of Vietnam.
Nobody’s disparaging the average Grunt. Oliver Stone, the director, won a Bronze star with a V for exceptional valor and a Purple Heart and a number of medals of commendation. You don’t see him glorifying the Vietnam war in his movies, rather trying to understand the nature of the fight. He doesn’t disparage the military or the Vietnamese.
Chris Kyle on the other hand, is not somebody who was suffering from any moral pangs. If you remember, his estate lost the lawsuit against Jesse Ventura, because a jury thought Kyle was full of crap. The story in his book, about Jesse Ventura was basically bullshit, according to the jury. $1.8 million worth of Bullshit, according to a jury of his peers.
Your defense of Kyle seems to stem just from the fact that he was in the military, and not based on whether the points made in this article are accurate or inaccurate. A lot of people join the military as a career. Some join for religious and political reasons. They all serve different causes. There is a huge percentage of people in the military who come from families without much financial means. Is patriotism a special thing with the poor? By defending Chris Kyle blindly, you continue the myths around the military, and prevent judgment of their actions, and discussion on whom they serve. You allow continuation of policies that allow a Vietnam, that allow an Iraq. That’s all some us are saying. Personally, I don’t care about Chris Kyle. I only care enough to post comments saying he was no hero.
All good points. It’s hard to argue against what you’re saying. You may not be disparaging the average Grunt, but if you read through some of the comments, you’ll see some nastiness.
Regardless, my larger point is a commentary on our divisions as Americans, and the fact that I am troubled by the tone of rhetoric I hear in political discourse and in chat rooms like this one. There is a tendency to see issues in black and white, when in reality there is a continuum of grayness.
What I was trying to communicate (apparently poorly) was that the strong defenders of Chris Kyle (for e.g. those saying people who disagree with them should just shut up – I am not one of those) are unwilling to consider the truth of, for example, the Jesse Ventura lie. And they dig in their heels and aggressively shut out these facts. It’s cognitive dissonance. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are folks who are willing to dismiss the sacrifices Kyle made for this country (whether or not you agreed with the rationale for being where we were) because of his lies and exaggerations. This point of view bothers many veterans (including me) who think that his risking life and limb should buy him a little leeway, such that the untruths shouldn’t completely diminish the sacrifice.
I’m simply pointing out that the truth lies somewhere in between. Honestly, I am not Chris Kyle worshiper – I see him, and the reactions to his service and apparent fabrications, more symbolically – as a representation of the divisiveness we have in this country. To me, the emotions evident in the posts here indicate some deeper fundamental issues about divergence in the values of our citizens and the fact that our democracy is slowly being torn apart. Maybe I’m naive or idealistic, but I simply think we need to remember we’re on the same team.
I’m not American. And I was born a Muslim.
Me thinks you post long winded diatribes because it massages your ego to go back and reread them.
Nothing more.
The facts of the matter circle around the either haphazard or deliberate poor reporting of facts that bolster an agenda. One I might add you seem to be steeped in yourself.
You speak of motivations some have for joining the military as being for religious and political reasons. This construct comes from a simple and ideologically obsessed mind and is so disconnected from reality it makes me pity you.
Today’s warrior, such as Kyle, spring forth from a well that is rich in personal responsibility, self determination and honor. All 3 characteristics that you sorely lack.
Again, I pity you.
You think too highly of yourself. Nobody wants your fucking pity. The real pity is your inability to dispute anything I wrote.
Yeah, I’m sure most people join the military for patriotic reasons. That’s why the Bush and Cheney children are fighting with you.
I pity your brain. I pity your minuscule mind. I pity your inability to think yourself out of your desperate state.
The left and/or socialist media and people are very good at embellished some things.if not all things. They can not live in a life of truth,it makes most feel damage in side of them self. Most,it seem ,think that they would be a better American,if there wasn’t any military from any country, and only then would all country’s would be at peace with each other and they world would be one nation to all. Dreamers ,just sitting and puffy away on the herb of life. :-) hit hit and away they go.
Yeah. You’re absolutely right. Either you take a bong hit or you go invade a country that never attacked you. There are no third, fourth or fifth way to do things. You’re a real prize of a citizen.
” I don’t feel like a true veteran ” Ask yourself this. Would you have gone? Consider this, those that ;you trained may have served in a deployed status. Your contributions helped us sharpen our skills for a time when they those some skills were needed in a combat theater. In addition, the equipment you worked on was familiar to us because we may have led you in implementing it’s use or you may have led us in implementing it’s use. Don’t ever discount your service, ever. Your service means more than you may have realize Veteran. From a Veteran of Desert Storm and Shield, Somalia, and OIF, as well as four deployments, thank you for doing your part in making sure we came back to healthy equipment and trained men and women. and for having healthy equipment and trained men and women when we deployed again.
Semper Fi
This entire article is a fabrication of the truth. If the “so called” ex-seal wont reveal his identity (just to make sure he is not a delivery boy for Jimmy John’s) nothing he says should be taken as truth. Matthew Cole and Sheelagh are the liars! Kyle’s DD-214 states he had 2 silver stars and 6 bronze stars. Get your facts straight!
His DD-214 clearly establishes his record and refutes this article. What is Matthew Cole’s agenda? Why is this article still up on the website and why does Matthew Cole (hack) still have a job?
http://theresurgent.com/turns-out-american-sniper-chris-kyle-was-a-bigger-hero-than-previously-thought/
So, even the “real deal” steals. What’s wrong with these people?
Both of you deserve the business end of an AR.
Good Lord, what a pathetic attempt at a hack job. I hope you never wonder why folks have nothing but contempt for “The New Media”. Sheelagh and Matthew sell themselves as “a news researchers”. It’s a shame that they have no real world experience to bring to the game. ANYONE with a basic working knowledge of the US military understands the importance of a DD-214. You two need to get out of Manhattan and see the country, actually talk to people in “Flyover Country”
Mathew and Sheelagh, you two are a fucking joke for writing this. Leave the man be. Ten awards, or zero, this man served his country, in combat. Something quite clearly neither of you had the intestinal fortitude to do. You flat out disgust me.
Actually, there is a discrepancy between his DD214 and his autobiography, the DD214 lists 2 silver stars and 6 bronze stars whereas he claims 5 bronze stars. This really undermines the argument that he thought of the DD214 as the definitive source of truth.
Leave it up to some left wing cowards to attack a deceased American hero. If you knew anything you would know that the DD-214 is the final authority. Your reporting is shameful and you don’t deserve to share in the freedom willingly given to you by individuals better than you who are willing to lay their life on the line. You are a true American disgrace.
Fuck you. Freedom isn’t ‘GIVEN’ by ANYONE, sure as hell not some yahoo with an AR or other mechanical dick.
Our freedoms come from the Constitution and the Bill of Rights- and the rule of LAW.
If the military were the guarantors of our freedoms, it would follow that the most heavily militarized countries on earth would be the freest.
Why not move to North Korea, where fetishization of the military is the law, and tell us how you like it.
I for one am tired of the USA chugging MIC cock. And yeah, I’m a vet, so eat me.
True don, and then there is George Mason’s “2nd Am”, numerically 17th, says something to the effect that a standing military is actually a threat to liberty and freedom… false patriotism and failure to understand works only for a crazy marine.
DD-214 is not final authority.
Yea, the DD 214 is the final authority. All the grown ups know this.
Don – so a piec e of paper guarantees pour freedom? I doubt very much you were in the military if you think that way. Your logic about a stron g military leading to freedom is asinine.
More left-wing sh*t bag journalism. No honor – no integrity. Complete nothingness.
Maybe the authors studied at the Katie Couric school of bad journalism?
Hmm, it seems Cole and McNeill left out the list of all their citations and medals they earned while SERVING.
Cheap hack job by a bunch of lefty’s agush that they thought they found the big lie, when in fact, they don’t know s*it about the military and its documents. The DD214 is the final document. It has the sway, and according to it Kyle understated his decorations. Go smoke your weed and die.
As a former Personnel Officer who has verified and signed many DD-214s I can tell you it is the definitive statement of a military member’s service. The reason is that it is prepared from the member’s original and complete service record that is kept at the member’s command. When the record is sent to the Archives, it is often stripped of what might be considered superfluous or repetitive records to reduce the amount of data to store. In reviewing my own record in St. Louis, after I left the service, I found several items including Letters of Commendation and awards were missing. Luckily I had kept my own command certified copies.
You need to correct your article and apologize for misleading the public who don’t understand the military. You are here, living the life you live, only because of the sacrifices of those who serve in the military and protect you and your family. Without them you wouldn’t have the freedom of speech to write what you write.
What have you two ever done for your country?
How does somebody do something for their country? Does everyone have to join the military, or is there another way? And what is “country?” Is it your president, or is it your people? Are you allowed to dissent on behalf of your “country,” or do you have to join the establishment?
Here I sit in Jalalabad Afghanistan and I’m more concerned with my fellow countrymen then the rockets and mortars over here. I retired from active duty not long after the first Gulf War and was lucky to get another chance to serve (this time with the reserves) after 911. Last October I was forced to retire from the Air Force for the second time because I reached the 33 year maximum. I was told both times when I retired that my DD-214 is the official record. Whatever the case, Chris Kyle over stated the Navy’s records and understated his DD-214, he’s not with us anymore so he can’t defend himself. If other military members have an issue with him, that’s between them and him. Civilians pay the military and contractors to do the nations bidding. If you really don’t like the idea of the U.S. military over here doing what we’re doing, elect a strong president so I can go home. I was there when we took the B-52s off alert and the military got a breather. It was because the bad guys feared us! If you think these bad guys over here wouldn’t just love to come to your backyard, invoke their laws on us and if you don’t agree with them, they would like to kill you. I have to go now, one of our drones just landed and we have to turn it around so it can watch over some of the military YOU sent over here with your tax dollars.
Thank you for your service!
The DD-214 is considered the end all be all. Carried around by all vets and THE record. Kyle actually claimed LESS awards than his DD-214 claims. This article is a cheap liberal hack job. Shame on you.
I guess it’s irrelevant to Perry, and other conservatives attacking this site, that there would have been nothing to uncover had Kyle not lied.
I have uncovered a go fuck yourself and its all yours.
What does the DD214 say? Not what you want. But maybe facts interest you as little as it did the reporters..
I understand there is a discrepancy one way or another depending on the documents sited. Objectively speaking, I see a double standard here. The discrepancy between the Awards office and the DD Form 214 plays against both parties; the Intercept and Kyle. I think more should have been done to accurately clear up the discrepancy before going to print on this story. I am not saying the story is wrong but I am saying Im just as confused about The Intercept’s claims as I am Kyle’s.
That would take actual research and reporting… something this author is incapable of.
Please retract this story. The DD 214 is a certificate that people use to prove or disprove. Since the DD 214 is the same as Chris Kyles account, this story is wrong, inaccurate and an example of poor reporting and lack of knowledge of what the DD214 really is.
Your lack of understanding of the military system and apparent obliviousness to the truth is stunning. The DD-214 is prepared by the various services personnel infrastructure for the separating service member. The individual is only responsible for submitting any documents missing for the original draft document or for correcting the record after it has been found to be in error. Mistakes are made, but to accuse the veteran of “distorting his military record” is a stunning lie against a true American hero. Of course, Chris Kyle can’t correct his document now because he is dead. I don ‘t believe the truth will change the tenor of this despicable attack piece since the author doesn’t seem to care about the truth.
Just out of curiosity, how many Silver and Bronze stars do the two of you have ?? How many years of service to your country are shared between the two of you ?? My guess is the answer to both those questions is none and none. So your only claim to fame is to slander the name of a man that because he actually short changed himself on his awards, because had you served in the military you would know your DD Form 214 is the OFFICIAL record, it doesn’t matter what anyone, including the Navy “remembers”. You two are the lowest form of life in this country, you desecrate a man that, at worst, served his country honorably and at best is an american hero because of what amounts to an accounting error. My guess is you woke up one morning tired of hearing what a great American Chris Kyle was and feeling inadequate because you yourselves weren’t born with the guts and selflessness to place yourselves in harms way for your country and decided you needed to destroy his name. Fortunately for Chris, and unfortunately for you, I believe the average American is smart enough to see your article for what it is, a desperate attempt at destroying Chris released on a weekend America remembers all her fallen heroes, which makes your article that much more insulting to not only Chris but all our fallen. You are both cowards of the worst kind, you live under the freedom our men and women in the military provide and then tear them down. Why don’t you try walking a mile in their shoes, put your life on the line for a little better than minimum wage, controlled by Rules of engagement which requires them to become human targets before they can engage a known hostile enemy. I think we all know the answer, if you two were to embed into a military unit and report on our troops during a combat engagement you would be so traumatized you would be unable to think much less write the vile crap you pass off as journalism. But we all know that will never happen, you two will always be Monday morning arm chair quarterbacks criticizing everyone. I think Teddy Roosevelt said it best;
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
To call you “cold and timid souls” is actually being kind, what you are is much worse…you are cowards.
They reward people for killing other people and say of them self that they are the good guys.
these men who go into harms way “are not good guys” how do I know I am one of them, I have seen 3 wars in my career and was almost killed in 2. I will be doing a show about this on redonkulas.com. this is sicking how a bunch of sniveling cowards attack a dead man. you are truly a lowly piece of shit
So sorry to hear the world wasn’t filled with unicorns for you. Try grabbing a history book and familiarizing yourself with human nature. Your preciousness is living in a surprisingly peaceful and advanced culture.
“I have discovered a wonderful thing, men will die for pieces of ribbon”, Napoleon Bonaparte, no slouch as a General, he. In the good old days the warriors had to be motivated by sharing in the looted treasure when they raped and pillaged. Now, they get less than minimum wage and ribbons; the loot all goes to the corporations the wars are fought for. Shows how dumbed down we have become. Of course, some like the thrill of the kill so much they become mercenaries or as they call them now, contractors. Orwell would be proud. Met one in Florida a couple of years ago, was getting $1500 a day till they got him, all messed up now livin in a trailer. Met another one a few years ago, he was messed up in Cambodia; his shrink told him he was not there, the lies of officers. His squad used to go out at night and kill the locals and take their ears as souvenirs, he was more scared of them than the Cong. Now the daughters of the Cong sew cheap clothes to make WalEvil richer. War, it sucks for you but it’s great for THEM!!
Americans are by nature embelishers; if an American caught a legitimate record fish he would always tell it an inch longer. If you considers soldiers, who by choice go to foreign country’s and kill the local population hero’s then this guy is a hero. Of course, so were the SS and Hirohito’s warriors and certainly the Viet Cong and Hamas because they were/are fighting against invaders and occupiers; something like the American rebels back in the day; unlike the cowards in warships launching cruise missiles or the drone assassins and their coward in chief. War by invasion is a sick aggression. Read USMC General Smedley Butlers book, “War is a racket” if you want to really know why wars are fought and how to stop them.
these men who go into harms way “are not good guys” how do I know I am one of them, I have seen 3 wars in my career and was almost killed in 2. I will be doing a show about this on redonkulas.com. this is sicking how a bunch of sniveling cowards attack a dead man. you are truly a lowly piece of shit N
What is it about the world we a hero is killed helping another vet and it’s like you automatically look to dig something (dirt) to run his good name in the dirt,regardless if he had 5 or 500 metals this man did something neither you nor I could do. So shame on you and let this man rest in peace, because your not just giving this man a bad name your also shaming his family, so let him and them be,it is shameful to me what your doing
The Sniper as “hero” is a strange concept, they’re the modern equivalent of the western “back-shooter” they give no chance. In their defence its always stated that “neither do their targets they killed x,y and z without giving them a chance” well that makes the sniper just as bad as a terrorist. Kyle admitted killing a child ffs and people laud him as a hero. What a scummy society, I’m glad I’m not part of it
Just so we can set the record straight. If you, or a loved one, was being held at gunpoint by a known killer and a police sniper had that person in his cross hairs you would not want him to take the shot because, well that would just be cowardice ?? The sniper as a hero is not a strange concept, his job is to provide over watch and if every shot Kyle took saved only one American life, then he would still be a hero, but he was eliminating people hell bent on killing as many Americans as possible. As fas as killing a child, the minute that child’s parents strapped an IED to them and sent them to blow up American troops they stopped being a child and became a combatant. Is it sad ? Yes it is sad. Is it incomprehensible to most Americans ? Absolutely. But what is truly sad and incomprehensible is that any parent can have such disregard for their children but their disregard for their own children should not equate to the slaughter of America’s sons and daughters. But it on the upside, it is goo to know that if you or a loved one is ever in need of a police sniper, we can save the bullet and hope for the best.
ZZZzzzzzzzz
And we former military PATRIOTS are glad, too.
SNIPER? well here is what a sniper does. moved in a 2 man team with out back up. pulls recon for up to 7 days. that is the limit because he carries all he needs on his back. 85% of a snipers job is for intel and recon. 15% is hunt n engage or cover soldiers on the ground from an over watch position. How do I know? I was a sniper in 2bat 75th airborne rangers. and a snipersection leader. so I trained coutless dudes in the job.
Let’s try this again. The DD214 is less than accurate and far from correct in many instances. I served 25 months in Vietnam, June 1968-July 1970. At the unit level I was awarded an Air Medal, Bronze Star(Meritorious Service), Purple Heart and an Army Commendation Medal. None of these appear on my DD214. My DD214 also shows an enlistment date 2 days after my discharge date! It took the better part of 6 months to get my enlistment date corrected and I spent 5 years trying to get my Section 24 Decorations amended. The records people in St. Louis gave me alternating reasons as to why the corrections couldn’t be made, no “corroborating command level documents” were available and “corroborating command documents may have been destroyed in the 1973 fire”. Even though I had, and still have, the original boxed decorations and citations that was insufficient proof. But wait, there’s more! The St. Louis records people did send me a correction form showing a US Presidential Unit Citation and a South Vietnam Gallantry Cross issued to my Air Ambulance detachment while I served with the unit but awarded after I transferred to an army field hospital! Whether Kyle embellished his awards, I can’t speak to. But saying the DD214 states something different comes to no surprise to me.
To all of the rabid Kyle apologists:
“Mistaking insolence for freedom has always been the hallmark of the slave.”
? Wilhelm Reich, Listen, Little Man!
“You have no sense of your true duty, which is to be a man and preserve humanity. You imitate wise men so badly and bandits so well. Your movies and radio programs are full of murder.”
? Wilhelm Reich, Listen, Little Man!
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/army-chaplain-quit-unaccountable-killing-obamas-secretive-drone/story?id=39290869
As a witness to the removal of fallen U.S. troops from Afghanistan, Army Chaplain Christopher John Antal can’t recall a time when that solemn ceremony wasn’t conducted without the presence of drones passing along the horizon.
They were sleek and quiet, making a gentle humming noise as they flew over the flight lines — where aircraft can be parked and serviced — of the Kandahar airfield in Afghanistan, where he was stationed in 2012. Not everyone had access to the flight lines, according to Antal, but he was responsible for participating in dignified transfer ceremonies, also known as ramp ceremonies, which were set there to greet the caskets of fallen service personnel as they were returned to base, en route to the U.S. On these occasions, he would watch the drones drift in and out, loaded with Hellfire missiles.
“It was [a] stark contrast to the solemnity of what I was doing at the ceremonies,” Antal, a Unitarian Universalist minister, told ABC News about watching the drones during the ceremonies. “When I would watch them and think about where they had been and where they were going, it would break my soul.”
On April 12, Antal resigned his commission as an officer in the Army because of his conscientious objection to the United States’ drone policy. In a letter addressed to Commander-in-Chief Barack Obama, Antal wrote, “The executive branch continues to claim the right to kill anyone, anywhere on Earth, at any time, for secret reasons, based on secret evidence, in a secret process, undertaken by unidentified officials. I refuse to support this policy of unaccountable killing.” In doing so, he joined other previous members of the armed forces who have addressed Obama to criticize his drone strike policy, including four former members of the Air Force who penned a letter in November of 2015 warning the president that the strikes
Talk about a feel good story just in time for Memorial Day, dragging the memory of a decorated and killed veteran through the mud. As a veteran, we are instructed that the DD-214 is the end-all/be-all authority of our military service. When we want to apply for VA health benefits, what to we have to show? The DD-214. When we want a VA home loan, what do we have to show? The DD-214. So if his DD-214 shows 2 silver stars (which the article concedes), why would he believe any differently? If there is an inaccuracy, the fault lies with the Department of the Navy, not with Chris Kyle.
I love the work of The Intercept in general and I agree the conflicting stories re killing bin laden, including whether the Pakistanis were actually in on it, deserve further investigation as they relate to ongoing special operations management. That having been said, this shameful “investigation” by Cole and McNeil is beneath contempt and exactly why the press rates just below Congress is the minds of the American people. Kris Kyle risked his life serving his country and died trying to help another disturbed vet suffering from the sacrifices these men had to make due to the dipshit foreign policy that the American Public decided to pursue under George W and in fact continues to pursue under Obama. I would love to see the bed wetting that would ensue from either of these authors having a bullet pass by their head in a war zone. The man is dead and cannot defend himself, though he gave his life defending armchair quarterbacks like these authors who offer only anonymous testimonials that are contradicted by the official record with no controverting evidence. It’s disgusting.
[“Kris Kyle risked his life serving his country and died trying to help another disturbed vet suffering from the sacrifices these men had to make due to the dipshit foreign policy that the American Public decided to pursue under George W and in fact continues to pursue under Obama.”]
Correction: he died serving his corporate masters that could care less…in your demented understanding of perverted sacrifice. And as far as the American Public blame…NOT…again corporate INTERESTS in foreign lands to steal their oil and whatever else their greed deems fit at the cost of Iraqi civilian lives that people like you could care less about. You are disgusting to brand the American Public with your filth, torture, and murderous death. Rot in the place where you came from and where you will return…as did Mr. Kyle. There is a Higher Law that your arrogance and those like you who don’t seem to grasp. REAP WHAT YOU SOW AS DID KYLE because the world (esp. America my home) is better off without you. Arrogance can not avoid the madness that follows…
Thank you Mr. Cole and Ms. McNeill…good job well done. The true hero’s are those who reveal home grown atrocities at their safety. The true meaning of honor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
Collateral Murder – Wikileaks – Iraq
“Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give the appearance of solidity to pure wind.” ~George Orwell
I’m a fan of The Intercept, but it must have been an extremely slow news day for this to make it onto the site.
I don’t care if Kyle, or any other veteran deployed to a war zone (yup, I’m excluding those who never saw combat), exaggerate the medal counts. As far I’m concerned, the only people who can call him out, or criticise him, are fellow veterans. Every veteran, honourably discharged, or current member of the armed forces is a hero.
All criticisms and investigations should be directed at those who sent them to war without just cause or who where convicted of performing atrocities during their service.
IMHO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W8WeO6wSF8
US Soldiers Killing For Sport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Pw6Zegj54
US War Crimes In Iraq Exposed by US Marine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_p5sQHNw2g
My Lai Massacre Documentary
Ghosts Of Abu Ghraib
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGpaOp6_I7M
Description:
Examines the abuse, torture, and murder of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison at the hands of U.S. military police in the fall of 2003 and debunks the “bad apples” theory. The film asks: how can decent young soldiers take these actions, and, what orders came from the chain of command. The filmmaker interviews former detainees, soldiers, and MPs involved in photographed degradation. He references Dr. Stanley Milgrim’s early 60’s experiments. The film also traces memoranda from Secretary Rumsfeld, General Sanchez, and the U.S. Department of Justice allowing various interrogation methods along with a 2003 visit to Abu Ghraib by General Miller, who had been running Guantanimo.
WARCRIMES – US Soldiers Speak – I Killed Innocent Civilians Full Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMKwY1vF_8
These are the “hero’s”…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnNNBoPh9zw
American Soldiers Speak Out Against The Wars And Accuse The Government of Crimes
No…Chris Coward Kyle…you won’t be resting in peace.
Thank you, Sparrow. Gas-lighting is everywhere and truth gets the first bullet…people just can’t face the truth, so they double-down on steroids.
The true unsung heros are the ones who save a life…esp. any human life. There is not much to say about egotistical murderers for hire. Say I wonder how many children were in that probable distorted count. Absolute disgrace, dishonor, and repugnance. Reap what you sow truth is just that.
Am I missing something? The DD 214 linked to this article shows Kyle received exactly what he wrote in his book; 2 Silver Stars & 5 Bronze Stars. A service members DD 214 is the document for record, unless proven otherwise. Is there a document stating his DD 214 is wrong?
Not true. Read the article. Become informed before you parrot your bar stool “truths”.
So what? This guy went to hell and back and Lived to tell his story.
…not for long
I thought this was a wonderful movie. It seems some people are saying that he didn’t lie and that his account was accurate. On the subject of the military and the middle east does anyone know anything about the Iraqi Dinar? I purchased some Iraqi Dinar from BuyIQD.Com a couple years ago. Its been sitting in a drawer ever since. Wondering where I could go about selling it? I
Yeah, lots of people have been wondering how to make a profit on Iraq.
You should have bought Blackwater or Halliburton.
He did not lie about his awards. Upon retirement/separation, a service member may receive awards at his or her ceremony that will not necessarily be posted in their official file at the time of presentation, but will be captured on the DD-214 by the unit’s administrative office when that pick up their discharge orders. Ultimately, it is the member’s responsibility to update the soon to be archived record on the DD-215 with their admin office. Most of us put it on the back burner, because what is on your DD-214 is what counts, which is verified twice against supporting documentation (i.e. AWARD CITATIONS, etc.) before being issued to the member. If anything, he is guilty of not going back to update his record, but I wish they would stop looking for inconsistencies to report about, especially for our fallen. The SEAL’s family and comrades have gone through enough already, and should have to defend his honor (again) just in time for Memorial Day, and interrupt the barbecue that sadly they earned the right to enjoy….. Semper Fidelis, and RIP Warrior.
He did not lie about his awards. Upon retirement/separation, a service member may receive awards at his or her ceremony that will not necessarily be posted in their official file at the time of presentation, but will be captured on the DD-214 by the unit’s administrative office when that pick up thier discharge orders. Ultimately, it is the member’s responsibility to update the soon to be archived record on the DD-215 with their admin office. Most of us put it on the back burner, because what is on your DD-214 is what counts, which is verified twice against supporting documentation (i.e. AWARD CITATIONS, etc.) before being issued to the member. If anything, he is guilty of not going back to update his record, but I wish they would stop looking for inconsistencies to report about, especially for our fallen. The SEAL’s family and comrades have gone through enough already, and should have to defend his honor (again) just in time for Memorial Day, and interrupt the barbeque that sadly they earned the right to enjoy….. Semper Fidelis, and RIP Warrior.
On my DD214 I was told to fill out the awards section myself. They said if I don’t add it, it won’t be on there.
It’s easy to modify awards and medals to your own advantage.
Perhaps you are a liar. Plain and simple. An exiting service member’s DD214 is issued from your branches Man Power and Management center. NEVER hand written by the exiting service member. It isn’t even produced by the local admin offices. Perhaps you were filling out some local form. If you are attesting that you were filling out your DD214 and not some local admin form than you are a liar.
All I’m gonna say is… http://unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/secret-military…/ enough said.
When a military guy gets out, the only true record he has in his possession is the DD214. That’s all he’s got. He doesn’t even get to keep his medical records. He is way more than justified to make claims off his DD214. But now he is dead and is most certainly a war hero.
Many postings which reflect virulent hatred for the Kyle (including the authors) are the indicative of the moral FAILURE due to the collapse of our educational system that was infested with the RADICAL SUBVERSIVES which are actually just a fanatical radical hags that are there only to brain wash “INDOCTRINATE” our children into the “revolutionary” zombies. It is quite interesting that our education STANDS at the 28th place measured by the PISA which is the world’s international watch group that oversee the rankings – educational achievements for all the nations on this planet. The US is on the 28th PLACE but at the FIRST PLACE in the EXPENDITURE.. While the China holds top 5 FIVE FIRST PLACES.. hm? It seem the Chinese threw their Mao’s “Red Book” and took the real BOOKS while OUR IDIOTS took the “Red BOOK” and are doing the “cultural revolution” instead of the EDUCATION.. So the RADICAL MUSLIMS and our RADICAL IDIOTS have exactly the same HATE for everything AMERICAN so did the Red Book so does the “Radical” Koran those low lifers hate for the Kyle is just indicative of how low the human being can go.. thanks to the our education’s FAILURE and perhaps nothing else. There is only one solution to stop the IDIOCY to become PANDEMICLY SPREAD the tax payers must to be able to reclaim their RESPONSIBILITY of what their children would be exposed to and what they WILL ACTUALLY LEARN as opposed to be brain washed by the BRAINLESS IDIOTS. We have to demand the ability to take the control over the choices of who will ACTUALLY educate our children as opposed to be sent only to be radicalized by the “COLECTIVE”? Today there is ongoing brain washing by the academic IDIOTS that are just turning our kids into the radical zombies. This article is “just” indicative how low and the abomination of HATE by the low lifers against the anything DECENT that HEALTHY AMERICANS can come with and the nothing else. Radical left is a “social” disease that is responsible to the HUNDRED MILLIONS of innocent victims and the Kyle is just a perfect medicine to prevent its spread Be it RADICAL communists or RADICAL Muslims Kyle was a right medicine – “vaccine”? So the subversives wannabes are just a bit afraid of the “cure”? Zombies hate the cure and the HEALTHY ones.. I guess it is just a matter of priorities which crowd is good for the American people 28th place in education but the first in the ongoing “B.S” indoctrination?
What time era are you writing from, 1965?
Douche.
Then comes the question, why does Senator Lindsey Graham have a Bronze Star with less than 10 months Active Duty?
I would really like to know.
Oh, that’s easy: Colonel (Ha!) Graham was awarded that Bronze Star for serving as a lawyer (a “Judge Advocate”) on a “detention task force” in Baghdad.
Ain’t ya proud of him?
War is hell! Hahaha!
It’s always easy to attack someone’s credibility after their deaths. I’m a veteran, 11 years in the Army and then 4 years in the Marines. My final DD214 have 2 extra purple hearts and I’ve called 4 times in 10 years and it’s still not corrected. Is that my fault? No! Chris was a humble person, which is not like him. A boastful, bragging type person makes themselves out to be more than what they really are. If there are discrepancies about Chris Kyle and his records, then I would be more likely to look at the personnel and records office.
Chris Kyle is still a hero, it doesn’t matter how much hardware was in the war chest. He had 160 CONFIRMED kills as a sniper. He was not an assassin. He saved hundreds if not thousands of American lives. If we could, we’d send him more medals. He deserved every one of them.
Who cares about the medal count? That this sneaky murderer of 160 young Iraqi men and women should be hero-worshipped is a travesty. As part of an illegal invasion force he was a war criminal by international law. His victims, trying vainly to defend their poor country from a high-tech and ruthless invader, should be the heroes in this story.
And what’s with all the current sniper-porn? Has there ever been a period in human history where anonymous murdering from a safe distance was considered heroic?
I could have wept when my 15-year old son returned from seeing the movie, his eyes bright with enthusiasm to join the army so he could be a sniper, too. Seduced, I suppose, by the video game-like quality of the action, the shiny hardware and the ever-rising score.
Chris Kyle and his ilk will go down in history as ruthless war criminals. Those that glorify his sordid story should be ashamed of themselves.
Mr. Roberts you coward. Live the freedom you have at the hands of men who served and you have the audacity to call them war criminals? If you can stand behind our military men and women, they by all means get in front.
We all know that will never happen, you know nothing of duty and honor. All you and your ilk know are what’s in it for me. What do I get out of being an American citizen. You’ll never know the cost of freedom, you’ll never know the cost of sacrifice, because someone else has paid it for you. The pacifists of this nation, have two people to thank for their freedom, Jesus Christ and the American Military. One gave you the right to breath and the other gave you a country in which to do it.
If you don’t like what America stands for, you’re more than welcome to try any other country to live in. Matter of fact I’ll help you move.
[“If you don’t like what America stands for, you’re more than welcome to try any other country to live in. Matter of fact I’ll help you move.”]
Who the f**k gives you the authority to leave or stay because there are those of us who do realize that we are no more “safer” with invaders, torturers, and murderers like you. You have made America the stench that it is. Take your misguided , self made glory and take it somewhere else…matter of fact I’ll help you move.
Chris Kyle is such a liar that we can even wonder if he actually deserve any medail at all save for the merit for geting into the navy seal. At least when the army and the media tried to make so BS about Linch “Heroism” she objected to it. And by the way this lady is still definitivly an hero but not because of what the army and media propaganda was pretending about what’s hapen to her.
Geez, what do you expect from the “warriors” of one of the most dishonourable armies in the world.
why would you even try to tarnish the record of
an American hero… shame on you…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4
Nothing more to say.
Simo was the shit…so was Kyle!! Both heroes!!!
Special forces, lots of muscle and little brains. Little truths that hurt aside…
Perhaps this sniper did some covert missions that few know about, and was awarded the extra medals he mentions? Would be a good reason for not discussing their origin in his book (which I do not intent to read), and for many of his military colleagues not knowing about it.
)Just a theory.(
So if there’s a discrepancy between his DD-214 (which he would have had a copy of) and his personnel files (which he probably didn’t) these noncombatants want to blame a hero for distorting his records. Try a real story like just how incomplete many military records are. I can’t find any record of being shot down in Vietnam (except a Purple Heart from the hospital) but I can show you the photos. This is muck-raking for no real purpose except to get headlines.
Nice how you smear a dead man’s name with no credibility whatsoever. What’s worse is all the rest of you pacifiers who believe this bullshit. At least you could have made up one name as a source. “current Navy officials” and “former commanding officers”?? What a pile…..
Why doesn’t the article mention the discrepancy between the discharge paperwork and the Department paperwork earlier? His DD214 says 2 & 5, that should be good enough.
I simply don’t get it. You try a killing spree in Arkansas (witness the Simmons case, for example – http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=3731) and they will execute you.
But if the government sends you to another country and you do precisely the same thing to a few dozen brown people, they throw medals at you and make blockbuster movies about your exploits.
Gosh! You don’t think there’s a nauseating double-standard going on here, do you?
You have completely falsified this information. Just read his DD-214. It says 2 silver stars and 5 bronze. Just because Navy Records do no have scans (which the service member is responsible for sending to them to be added to an OMPF) of the award documents or citations does not mean he was not awarded. I have awards that are not in my OMPF, but are accounted for on my DD-214. You need to correct yourself. NOW.
The best comparison at hand for Chris Kyle is this guy:
“Matthaus Hetzenauer (23 December 1924 – 3 October 2004) was an Austrian sniper in the 3rd Mountain Division on the Eastern Front of the World War II, who was credited with 345 kills. His longest confirmed kill was reported at 1,100 meters (1,200 yards). Hetzenauer was also a recipient of the Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross. The Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross was awarded to recognise extreme battlefield bravery or successful military leadership.”
He too was a good soldier who obeyed his commanders and did his best to keep his fellow German soldiers alive and so, by the reckoning employed in military affairs, deserves his medals and hero status.
None of that changes the fact the the invasion and occupation of Iraq based on ‘pre-emptive warfare’ claims about Saddam’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’ has its closest historical analogy in the invasion and occupation of Poland by Germany in World War II; it was a war crime of the first order, and act of aggression conducted by sleazy neocons to serve an economic agenda, and the perpetrators, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, etc. all deserve to be sitting behind bars for their crimes, along with the top generals who went along with them hand in hand.
The white death (Finnish sniper) is reported has having 505 kills.
I do agree they should be behind bars. But the world is not fair.
Why is this story even out? On his DD Form 214 it states, 2 Silver Stars and 6 Bronze Stars. The DD Form 214 is it. If the Navy wants to state otherwise then they screwed up not Chris. They are the one’s that fill out the form not Chris. If he stated 5 Bronze Stars vice six then how is that an issue. The real issue should be, if the Navy “claims” his DD Form 214 is wrong, the why did they write it. Your entire record is on this one form. Chris is only going by what is stated on his form. Chris’s wife and family only know what is on this form. Leave the issue alone. Leave his family alone. Go write something real.
[“Leave the issue alone. Leave his family alone. Go write something real.”]
Now that’s a funny thing to say when they are the ones who have publicized and hollywoodized this murderer’s glory. No…we will not leave it alone esp. when he was a liar. He reaped it…yes…he reaped his own glory.
I have very serious doubts that he was named the “Devil of Ramadi” by the Iraqi insurgents. I am pretty sure this is another of Kyle’s lies to make himself appear more important than he was. The logic just doesn’t make sense – there were many US snipers out there, how did the insurgents know Chris Kyle was the one who was killing lots of them? The insurgents didn’t have the technology to analyse the bullets and determine they all came from one gun. So that means that he would have had to have been spotted many times doing the kills by the insurgents – but that simply doesn’t sound plausible. It sounds even less plausible that they were able to see him doing all these kills from such a close distance that they could see the cross on his arm.
I have tried tracing the source to this claim, and the source seems to by an interview Kyle gave to a magazine, but that’s it – no independent verification. Surely if the insurgents had indeed put up posters of Kyle around Ramadi offering a reward, then at least one US soldier would have taken a photo of one, and there would be photos of these posters in circulation, but I have yet to come across one.
Maybe The Intercept can look into this claim too?
Yes, because snipers donot want to be obvious so they can easily accomplish what they do– no advertising here!
seems that every one is jumping on the bash wagon. The man is dead! Regardless of what some clown says about his medals, he doesn’t fill out his own DD-214 upon separation that is done by people who go over your record very carefully. I don’t care if he supposedly had wanted osters all I care about is that he was killing the ENEMY!
No bandwagon jumping, everyone knew that he was a lying piece of shit war criminal. He was a coward who lied about everything that he did. He murdered innocent civilians who were no threat to America and the world is better with him gone.
That’s what DISHONOR does…
Funny how all these military semper fi people get so indignant about any analysis of Chris Kyle’s record. I can’t remember the last time I heard any of these same people sing a song for Pat Tillman, or his family.
As can be readily seen, here, there is an angry, desperate and overwhelming need to justify and celebrate the alleged glories of war and the attendant “heroism.”
These are people who have constructed entire identities and feelings of self-worth on the foundation of the myths that the recruiters, the movies, the flyovers at football games . . . have written and painted and sung for them.
To have it all questioned or challenged is to feel their very personalities in peril. Thus the rage and hatred with which they respond.
That’s one possiblity, another is that the public relations wing of the U.S. government is bombarding this thread with posts aimed at protecting the reputation of one of their favored PR set pieces.
Look at how much time and energy they’ve spent promoting war in Hollywood, as another example – Zero Dark Thirty, the Hurt Locker, American Sniper – it’s the same kind of propaganda mentality that was behind the ’embedded reporters’ program in the first years of the Iraq invasion.
Compare that to the post-Vietnam era, when we had Apocalypse Now, Platoon, and Full Metal Jacket – I think most people would be surprised at the scale of coordination between Hollywood and the U.S. government’s PR team these days, and that PR program extends to maintaining an active presence in online comment threads as well. Obama seems a bit more stealthy about this then Bush was – but if you look up “Rendon Group” Iraq propaganda, you’ll find they’re still actively involved:
“On Oct. 12, [2012] Rendon appeared at the Pentagon at a forum to help the military “synchronize our strategic narrative and counter the Taliban’s,” according to an announcement about his appearance. It was an off-the-record event and included dozens of senior military officers and civilian officials. They gathered in a Pentagon conference room outfitted with large television screens to allow officials in Kabul, Pakistan and Tampa, home of U.S. Central Command, to take part.”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/19/pentagon-overseas-communications-strategy-stirs-controversy/1715741/
More proof that Obama has merely been continuing the Bush neocon policy agenda. “Hope and Change!” Ha ha ha.
Good points.
“These are people who have constructed entire identities and feelings of self-worth on the foundation of the myths…”
That sentence could likely be relevant to your own self worth sir. And if somebody like me questioned your ideology, I suspect you would react with rage and hatred also. That’s what all humans do.
Well, I suppose it could be, but it decidedly is not.
Nah, nothing of the kind. I’ve spent a lifetime having people not only questioning but condemning my beliefs and sociopolitical/cultural/economic positions.
Of course, depending upon how you formulated your “questions,” I might not be too gentle in my response. We’d have to try it to see.
Not humans worth engaging in discussion. The kind of humans who react that way tend to prefer breaking and killing things to reasoned argument.
Civil discourse for a refreshing change
You apparently have no clue. Pat Tillman was and still is an example by which all men should learn from.
The difference between Pat Tillman and Chris Kyle is like the difference between the Sun and Pluto. Tillman was an atheist, comes from an atheist family, who thought that the war was bullshit. They burnt his fucking diary after his death. And Kyle made a fortune talking about how many people he killed. You’re smoking something buddy.
A leftist hit piece. Shame on you. As a recipient of a Bronze Star, I am familiar with the medal process. When he left the military I am sure he expected (had been recommended for) additional medals. The pipeline is slow, convoluted and flawed. The corrected medal count is different than the real count due to publisher laziness, not Kyle’s anticipated count.
Why dance on a dead man’s grave? This seems sacrilegious to me; lacking in human decency.
Despite how we feel about war and soldiers, etc., this article was unnecessary.
I thought the exact same thing as I read…not here to stand-up for himself.
“This seems sacrilegious to me; lacking in human decency.”
I completely agree. There was plenty of time to dispute this when Chris Kyle was alive but no, Let’s wait until he’s dead and gone before we start stomping on his record and reputation. Despite the medal conflict he’ll always be a war hero that sacrificed a whole lot for you and I.
Seems most sacrilegiousto not be truthful. If it is an honest mistake or discrepancy, accept andcorrect it, or say ihave one medal in my possession –duly awarded, and there may be another i am not aware of? As simple photot might resolve all this blather.
If you had a brain you would do your own research and look at his DD-214 which reflects he actually received 6 Bronze Stars with Valor and two Silver Stars. Like these authors, you don’t check anything and just love using whatever ammunition you can get to slander people who do not aline with your ideology. Good luck with that.
If you want to make the BIG BUCKS, you Inflate Your Worth.
KSTP TV has a copy of Kyle’s deposition, portions of which they’ve made available online. I imagine that he was asked about the Silver Stars. Though he maintained the fiction that he had an encounter with Jesse Ventura, it’s possible that he was disinclined to lie about other things that could be checked (because falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus). It seems like he may have abandoned the claim that he was a bronco buster (so I guess no “pin” in the wrist that stuck out an inch and hit the turn signal so he broke it off and threw it out the window while he was driving).
Kyle was an astonishing liar, but it’s even more astounding that so many are emotionally invested in his lies.
Still waiting to see a photo of him wearing the insignia. His awards couldn’t have been very classified because he told us about them in his book, right?
I absolutely assure you, folks, that we would not be seeing the outpouring of glorification of war and praise for psychopathic killers like Kyle we are seeing here from a random bunch of vets from the Vietnam era.
What’s different? Well, one difference is that the composition of our military no longer reflects, even approximately, the demographics and character of our population in general.
The all-volunteer, “professional” military is populated largely by service members especially susceptible to the pro-war propaganda flooding every TV channel and the phony celebration of “heroism” dominating every sporting event. And, it must be said, our new military attracts volunteers who are really, really attracted to war.
Once we have them in uniform, we send them to do the dirtiest of our dirty work, for no reason that has anything to do with American values, in battles that, for years, have been unnecessary, illegal, based upon lies and worse. The experiences they endure often twist their souls and damage their moral compasses for life.
Then, we bring them home, where many find themselves even more unsuited to our modern culture and economy than they were before they left. We can find them, homeless, on the streets, drifting and self-medicating to deal with the pain and the memories. We can read the daily news, to learn of them killing themselves in startling numbers. And we can find some of the “lucky” ones “serving” as law enforcement officers, where their experiences in urban combat leave them susceptible to feeling “in fear for their lives” in even the most ordinary street encounters, and more likely than almost any recent crop of LEOs to shoot first — and dodge questions later.
This is not a good situation.
You have no idea what you are talking about, and zero experience with the modern US Military. Anyone recruit who has spent a week in reception battalion would know that everything you wrote is BS.
The only thing that is different as a result of the ending of the draft is liberals, commies, and socialists no longer have to contribute to the safety and security of the country. They are able to resume their natural position as free riders.
Thanks for doing such a fine job helping me to make my point.
You did a fine job of exposing yourself as an ill-informed coward with no help from me.
You should look into US Army demographics when you get a chance. On the plus side it will keep you from continuing to look stupid. On the negative side you will be disappointed that it doesn’t fit your preconceived world-view. It’s healthy to get out of the echo chamber once in a while.
Adam – why argue with Doug. He is not changing his opinion. Yet, he was probably very elated when Hilary bragged about being under sniper fire in Bosnia. I’m not a big military guy, but I understand that we need them.
Don’t bother Adam, Doug is one of those 300 million americans who sat on the sidelines. He hasn’t a clue about the military or what type of person is drawn to the uniform. And moreover, he doesn’t care. Reading these comments helps me understand what my time in the military meant to people like him…nothing! We know his ilk, that should be good enough. Unfortunately, Chris Kyle isn’t here to defend himself…that’s always made it easier for people like Doug and many others on this threat to trash a person. At the end of the day, and knowing how bad record keeping is in the military with respect to retention of awards, the DD 214 is the final answer. And that is all the satisfaction I need. As for the war, I would have taken another direction after 9/11. But there is nothing we can do about that now, can we?!
The 60s called — they want their conservatives to come home.
Just admit it Doug…you have never even been to a “sporting event”
Very good post.
To some snipers are heros – to others they are cowards.
That would depend on whether you are delivering or receiving the projectile.
I think everyone agrees Chris Kyle is a hero and that he may rest in peace.
I am not sure why Mr. Cole and Ms. McNeill thought this was a newsworthy story. Their story might have some merit if he had never won a single Bronze or Silver Star or if he had claimed he had been awarded the Medal of Honor.
Lastly, considering the work SEALS do, sometimes for the CIA and the like, it is possible there were medals given to Kyle that are not in his service record due to national security issues.
Commander Wayne L. Johnson, JAGC, Navy (Retired), Alexandria, VA
Possibly one of the comment lucid comments on this piece…why bother with such a story at this point? Perhaps Cole and McNeill, like many other hacks these days, just needed clickbait. Most reporters are pressured like never before to fill pages with pixels whether a story truly needs to be written or not.
Sir, Operations are classified, military awards and medals are not. However, I believe it is important to note the comments concerning his DD214. To most veterans, THIS IS the record of their service. I doubt I would get a second silver star wrong, but my DD 214 reflects numbers of awards I just do not remember! 2 or 3 MSMs, 5 or 6 ARCOMS? Does it really matter? Didn’t to me. Again, I am not talking about a silver star. I believe you almost have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Possibly due to the error of a clerk! The DD214 is an official documents that follows one throughout their entire life. If the Navy KNEW the medal count was incorrect, why didn’t they correct his DD214? I knew a few medal mongers in my career. The best officers could care less about their medals and more about those of their men/women. Many deserved medals they didn’t receive and watched others receive them that didn’t deserve them. Medals are subject and at the Silver Star level and above, political just like body counts.
“I think everyone agrees Chris Kyle is a hero . . .”
No, Commander, not even nearly everyone agrees. None of the people that Chris Kyle killed were a threat to the US, to our freedom, or to what we like to call “our way of life.”
There’s nothing heroic about killing people who pose no threat (or wouldn’t, if we hadn’t invaded their homeland on the basis of lies, in an illegal war of aggression — JAG lawyers are taught about Nuremberg, right?).
“. . . and that he may rest in peace.”
Yes. May he rest in peace. But let’s stop calling him a hero — it’s an insult to real heroes everywhere and throughout history.
What a disgusting, cowardly article. If his DD214 reflects his claimed medal count, then why would the authors present this as something other than a record keeping problem? Military record keeping is atrocious, I assure you they would not be able to find orders for all the ribbons I earned, but at least I am in a position to explain any discrepancies. Of course Kyle is dead, so this is a perfect time for spineless journalists to tear him down, and the rest of the media to jump on the bandwagon.
Happy Memorial Day to my fellow veterans. Never forget.
Anyone who has served in the Navy knows that the Navy’s official record for members is frequently inaccurate, often wildly so. So much so, in fact, that the Navy has a whole system in place for members to send corrections to their record (although the responsibility for reviewing and correcting that record falls on the member, not the Navy). And awards are frequently omitted. I myself, during my 21 year Navy career, have found that the majority of my personal awards were missing from my official record. I submitted documentation proving I had received the award, and that was that. Of course, I wasn’t serving multiple tours in Iraq at the time, so I had a bit more time to worry about this sort of administrative hassle than a serving SEAL like Chris Kyle. Lousy story, folks.
Military records are not always correct. My USN(R) records after my active duty are completely incorrect. They didn’t even show my two Honorable Discharges until I mailed them a copy of the original. They don’t have a record of my pistol or rifle ribbons that I earned. Even a USN(R) good conduct medal is missing. So you can’t go by a DD214 as they only have the records they were provided by the Reserve Command and that place was demolished years ago along with most of the records. Maybe he didn’t receive them but please don’t assume anything until it is proven.
His DD214 is accurate. Also, the medals his wife holds in her hands are accurate. The current administration will do anything to discount a brave veteran…yet they cant seem to know what to do with Bergdahl, the traitor, nor can they find any records belonging to the glorious idiot in the White House.
Let’s face it Intercept, you hate veterans and right here at Memorial Day you totally dishonor everyone who has ever served and given their lives for your freedom to spread crap. You don’t dese be to live in this country.
Amen, brother.
Typical BS comment. The current administration has done nothing to discount Chris Kyle, or any other veteran. Chris Kyle is the only one who showed great disrespect for veterans. He’s known to be a liar, even among his closest friends. They’ve admitted he always had a knack for embellishing his stories about himself. He accomplished great things as a member of our military and instead of celebrating that, he had to lie to make himself look better.
Let’s face it, Stephen, you’ll ignore the proof and believe the BS just to be a conservative news follower. No one has had any trouble finding records of our current president. Guys like YOU are a disgrace to this country – feeding off any lie that gets you all worked up.
Amen, sister.
“Let’s face it, Stephen, you’ll ignore the proof and believe the BS just to be a conservative news follower.”
The irony in this is that Laura is writing like a liberal news follower.
Gosh you mean he only got 1 Silver Star and 2 Bronze Stars wit valor. The freakin traitor.
To the writers of this article. It’s so nice of you to smear the honor of one of America’s service members, especially on Memorial Day weekend. Your timing is impeccable. Let’s set this straight….The DD214 is THE AUTHORITATIVE DOCUMENT. and it overrides the “opinions of the minions”. Some of Chris Kyle’s missions were classified Secret or Top Secret, hence the records are sealed (no play on his being a S.E.A.L.. As a result, he would be wearing more that the U.S. Navy or any service would be able to provide you with documentation. The discrepancies between what he said in his book and what is on the DD214 is merely a timing issue. You are disgraceful reporters since you sought to discredit an American Hero without doing enough research to ensure you had it right.
So his official records “DD-214″ show he has 2 Silver Stars and 6 Bronze Stars but, some guy, who can’t speak about it openly, because he’s not authorized to, mysteriously reports that these were over inflated claims.. Ummmm sorry folks, I’m not buying it… I’m pretty sure that if you’re gonna go public on the level that Chris Kyle did, you make sure the info is correct.. And I don’t think the US Navy would have risked letting false information out “because it was good for publicity.”
Get real..
The Form DD-214 is the definitive record. If you don’t believe that, check with the Army and the VA. The medal count on this form is the definitive record. An open records request WILL NOT include information regarding awards and decorations awarded from classified operations, because this information is…well, classified. The authors of this article failed to do their jobs in understanding and reporting this process. Sounds like an agenda to me.
Yes, we should all do what we can to tear down American heroes. There are just way too many of them nowadays…
Isn’t it just as likely that the mistake’s made were in the record keeping at the Naval awards office? Why is it that Chris Kyle is the guilty party in this? Sure, some unverifiable claims are posted as proof he was disingenuous, but I am sure everyone reading can think of a laundry list of mistakes and outright lies told by members of our government, military leadership, etc.
Why should we believe that this article presents the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Chris Kyle’s DD214 showed he received 6 Bronze Stars, rather than the 5 he claimed, so if he distorted his record, it was to downplay his accomplishments. The information in the FOAI response said, “releasable” records. Just because you the FOAI request didn’t show it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
The good Govenor Jesse Ventura pointed that out years ago. That’s why I haven’t read the book or watched the movie.
It’s a good movie. Like all movies it is fiction. Like some movies, it is based on a person, place, or time. But it is just a movie written and directed by Clint Eastwood.. I think he wrote it, or co-wrote it. Someone will fact check it for me. I watched like 20 times or so. It was awesome. It is not a documentary nor meant to be 100% factual about Chris Kyle’s life.
You can’t use the movie as reference material for facts. Many parts of it are fictionalized to make a good story.
There seems to be a boatload of Internet snipers here willing to tear the man down. Fact was he helped a lot of vets who had PTSD and trouble re-orienting themselves back into normal society. He was killed trying to help a troubled man who was psychotic at the time. All the soldiers that fought over there are heroes in my mind. They fought in a war that was wrong, driven by politics that were wrong, but they signed up to do what they were asked to do and they did it. Just like Vietnam, they come home and their government doesn’t help them sufficiently and people who haven’t walked a mile in their boots tear them down.
All I can say about the haters is you can publicly hate because of men who put on the uniform went and fought for your right to do what you are doing. Many of them died for you. Many more are suffering from PTSD because they believed in fighting for you. Why don’t some of you haters head on down to the VA and pick up a few vets and take them out on your boats loaded up with beer and sodas and feed him some good charred animal flesh off the grill and let him pitch his tent right next to your sister this memorial weekend.
Speaking of DD-214’s there are some areas that are conveniently left off.
How many rapes did the enlisted females have to endure with nothing done even when they reported the assholes?
How many women did you rape solider?
Those line items are not in the DD-214!!!!
Which gender should receive medals?
It’s pretty clear and certain that if you are a woman in uniform, you will be brutally raped at least once,but probably more.
There’s some better things to write about than Chris Kyle’s DD-214.
Why don’t you keyboard warriors show Mr. Cole some original thought and back them up with real stories that need to be told and not the tired old blame a president nonsense.
1. You couldn’t get the truth out of the Pentagon with hot irons a set of pliers.
2. Kyle probably couldn’t tell about you about half the idiocy he was involved in. Half of which deserved a medal the other half probably deserved courts-martial.
3. Secret medals (commendations) happen. Ask the survivors of the US Liberty attack.
4. Soldiers are (in my opinion) allowed to exaggerate their heroism, since you can’t really stop them anyway. It’s a war story. A certain amount of braggadocios goes with the culture.
5. Military people are human beings, they exaggerate their importance and relevance , not just their heroism. Many of them actually perceive the world in an exaggerated even paranoid way.
6. If you can’t take the bullshit, stay away from the Pentagon.
7. Dead is dead. Let it go.
Rest in peace Kyle.
The author should also report that some awards may be classified, and are not released for public information – which may account for Kyle’s other awards. In addition, the personnel awards tracking and filing in the military is certainly not perfect. Local commands issue awards, and personnel clerks at separate command levels are responsible for filing those awards… which is a paper driven process… not something that is done digitally. While, in Iraq, we issued many awards to Soldiers and in the bureaucratic process – some of those awards never made it to the personnel records of those Soldiers. Did they still earn those awards – you bet! Were some of the awards listed on their DD-214… yes and no. Is the military a perfect system… ask anyone who has served and you will know that the military is horrible at maintaining an accurate filing and tracking system. Did Kyle receive the awards he listed… probably so, and there are likely a few awards he didn’t list either. So, to say that Kyle is an embellisher is absolutely false and negative propaganda – especially since Kyle likely refrained from listing all of his heroics and possibly other awards as he was respectful to the sensitivity of some missions that he participated in that may very well still be listed as classified. Shame on the authors for cheapening the bravery of the SEAL or any other servicemember by trying to equate a medal count or an award to the testament of one’s bravery in battle. Those of us who have served in battle know that awards are often shortcoming and that many times (especially in this generation) – commanders have been reluctant to issue awards, or if issued, the personnel system in all its attempts at being productive – quite often never follow-up to ensure awards are entered into the servicemember’s records. At the end of the day, the U.S. Navy should be scratching its head and wondering not if Kyle actually had that many awards – but wondering if the awarded Kyle enough and with the appropriate honor he deserved. I would argue, that perhaps the U.S. Navy should have honored Kyle with the Navy Cross or even the Medal of Honor – as I am certain that upon review of Kyle’s background it would be easy enough to justify such awards for his exemplary service in combat – not to mention how many lives he saved on battlefield as a result of his skill, prowess, determination and bravery.
Good snipers are not necessarily good accountants. I see no problem if people want to consider Mr. Kyle a hero, providing they don’t use him as a mathematical role model. He may have killed 160 people or he may have killed 16, but either way he killed as many as he could. That means he has earned his hero status.
The Intercept has actually done Mr. Kyle a favor, as the Navy will now desperately scramble through their papers, and find the missing medals. In fact, the concept of earned medals is an archaic one. In these more enlightened times, every serviceman or woman should simply award themselves the number of medals they think they deserve, when they receive their discharge.
I usually check with Huck Finn on these matters …
Any comment from the book’s publisher, ghost writer, fact checkers ?
Chris Kyle thank you for your service may you now rest in PEACE
Lets not forget who sent young Chris Kyle to … war.
Compared with his CiC’s (G.W. Bush) DD214 I think’s it’s fair to say Kyle was at least … a warrior. *VP Richard ‘king of deferment’ Cheney doesn’t have a DD214
Many, if not most, of my old Vietnam Vet pals – those who decry the latest war(s), anyway – have bumper stickers on their trucks: “Honor the Warrior, Not the War”
Notwithstanding, to this day, few of these vets can leave the house without a sidearm (or two) and have some form of severe PTSD manifested on a daily basis, to a certain extent … I do.
*of course, many more Vietnam vets are long dead, in mental institutions or homeless standing on street corners begging … you may have seen one.
I am sorry to hear about your PTSD.
I have always thought that Apalachens were a special group of people. You are a shining example.
You have been very helpful to me and I am sure to other regular readers with your truthful insights.
I have always read you with interest and I must say I have found great relief from this crazy world, by your fantastic appreciation of humour.
I dips me lid to you sir.
I wish you well, Bah.
Keep on keeping on.
Ty kindly, justanother1!
After the past tumultuous and traumatic decade, I think we all have a little PTSD. .. not to diminish that particular anguish veterans of war must experience.
*I have heard one of the names of Allah is The ‘Humour’ist (and British!) … but don’t quote me./
It is amazing how many DD214s went missing when droves of vets started to turn up for treatment of PTSD. Although the 1973 fire at the United States National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) in Overland, Missouri purportedly resulted in the loss of records unrelated to Vietnam service, thousands of Vietnam vet’s claims were denied because their DD214 was allegedly destroyed in that fire.
For instance:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/08/veterans-still-fighting-for-va-benefits-recall-173-fire-that-erased-millions.html
Let’s not forget the draft ended 43 years ago.
Everyone since JOINED on their own accord, many seeking out their favorite jobs. Thus they capitulated their freedom of choice to strangers and have no grounds to question or whine. Those who attain elite combat positions should never go public; writing books being a form of bragging and quite foolish.
As for your mention of “warriors” and the Nam war (in which I was a grunt in at Heip Duc Valley) – the real warriors, the consummate heroes, were the Vietcong. They are the ones who fought to rid their neighborhoods of FOREIGN scum … the Americans, Japanese and French. FYI
“Hiep” Duc Valley…
The guy serves his country, is murdered, but you still attack him in death.
As a infantry soldier, you realize you may be required to kill people. Maybe a few, maybe a lot. It comes with the job.
A sniper is a different cut, death is a given, an absolute. Takes a different kind of person to do it. A psychopath ? Hardly.
I find it both interesting and disgusting , the comments made here and by the ” journalists” . They and most of you have never served a day in your life, have no concept of what it is to serve something larger than yourselves.
Everything is cheap when someone else pays for it.
and FYI: Not everything shows up on your DD214. I was trained on certain “things” which does not show up on my 214.
Girly guys hiding under their beds or behind their women love muck raking real men. I only served one enlistment during the Vietnam years and was fortunate to win six Blackwater USA contracts to work in Pakistan and Afghanistan many years later. Most of my ‘friends’ don’t get it. That’s why they’re ‘friends’.
Yeah pops, Bush & Cheney is like two peas in a pod … and I think Obama is pretty much a pussy, too.
mr. seal you seem to be saying your friends are only still friends because they don’t understand you like to kill, that you took jobs as a mercenary to keep killing – and have somehow come to believe being a stone cold killer is a hallmark of “real” men.
This vet would like to suggest your comment’s a really messed up cry for help, and also apologize for what OUR country has done to you.
That’s not what he means. He means girly men who “fight” with their loud and filthy mouth hiding behind their Daddy billionaire. Filthy girly men who find nothing else but denigrate a war hero on a Memorial Day weekend.
There’s nothing “fortunate” about that course of events — not for you, for the Vietnamese, the Afghans, the Pakistanis, our country’s honor, dignity and reputation, or for the cause of civilization in general. I’m sure you helped Erik Prince pocket a bundle, of course.
I suspect, although I can’be certain, that what your friends do get is that yo have a serious problem. Please consider getting some help.
VA Mental Health Services
Most of my ‘friends’ don’t get it. That’s why they’re ‘friends’.
I understand why so many are upset over this. My grandfather served in World War II. He was stationed over in Germany on the front lines. He served his country with Honor. One thing about my grandfather is he never bragged about his time over seas fighting. I was doing a book report in high school on the war, I went to my grandfather and asked, “Granddad can you tell about your time stationed in Germany?” I can still remember what my grandfather told me, “Little One, I will never talk about my time over there. When there is a War both sides lose, lives are lost. It is nothing to brag about, because when you brag about it that’s the day you lose apart of your soul.” My grandfather couldn’t have said it better. Yes there are Hero’s and they trying their best to protect us. We live in age were religion has no meaning, honor has no meaning, and we are out to destroy ourselves. When did we as a world allow children to fight in War? They have no business carrying around weapon, they have no business strapping bombs to them and killing innocent people. We have committed the ultimate sin. We took one of gods children, and made him or her pick up arms against his fellow man. We have stolen something that was not ours to take, we took a child’s innocence’s and a child’s soul. I don’t care what religion you are, what nationality you are. On the day that you die, and you have to stand in front of God and answer for your sins, and he ask you, “Why did you destroy my children?” What are you going to say, my fellow man didn’t believe in what I did. My religion is right and everybody needs to follow the correct religion. Because I didn’t like this country, I was following your command. Because I have a mentally problem. The devil made me do it. Which every excuse you use, remember this God made each of us equals. We were made in Gods image. Most have us have at least broken one of ten commandments. We are God’s children, and when you take up arms against his children. I hope he gives us understanding and forgiveness, more than what we have given our fellow man. I’ll get off my soap box now, but I will leave you this. My granddad pasted away. The day of his funeral some of the men that served with him, told us my granddad saved many lives over there, that it didn’t matter what side of the fence you were on. He put his life on the line to protect his fellow man. He carried that wisdom for the rest of his Journey of life. So the next time you hear someone bragging how many people someone has killed, are how many medals someone has earned, or how they believed themselves a hero. Don’t say anything and when you get home and you say your evening prayers. Ask God for understanding and forgiveness for your fellow man.
I am an ARMY veteran and I don’t care if he inflated his awards. Chris is dead and gone let him rest and his wife live in peace. Hater’s are always looking for a place to hate. You can get off your job on this one. We don’t care. Only hater’s care.
” Kyle’s DD214 form, which lists two Silver Stars and six Bronze Stars with Valor among his decorations, also differs from the number of Bronze Stars with Valor — five — that Kyle listed in his book.”
The form lists five, the SAME as listed in his book.
I am embarrassed for you.
Please don’t write on military matters again without consulting someone who knows how to read a DD 214.
My brother lost his life in 2005, while on rooftop patrol in Baghdad. He was shot through his armpit, into the heart. I am in tears that this POS was allowed to lie and make a mockery of the sacrifices that not only my brother, but all the Men, Women, Mothers & Fathers, Sisters and Brothers and the rest have made with either their life, their mind, or their body. Sometimes all three.
He lied about a fellow soldier, he lied about the number of medals he had, what else has he lied about?
A world war has begun. Break the silence.
The man is dead. Leave him alone.
Why didn’t Chris Kyle leave all those Iraqis he killed alone after they had died, some of who were no doubt decent people just fighting against an invading force? Why did he go around calling them savages after he had killed them?
“Why did he go around calling them savages after he had killed them?”
Thinking they are savages is a pre-requisite, not an afterthought. If the person in your sights reminds you of your brother, it’s a bit harder to shoot.
This guy was not a soldier. He was a sailor.
This article is inaccurate. You claim Kyle’s DD214 says he received 6 Bronze Stars w/V instead of the 5 he wrote in the book. Yet, your own link to the document (the last page is the DD214) clearly shows 5 Bronze Stars w/V – & 2 Silvers Stars, exactly as Kyle wrote in the book. Moreover, everyone in the military knows that the military is horrible about keeping accurate records, especially before they started digitizing them frequently. Officials and sporadic records who can only cite a lack of records, mean nothing. Everyone knows the only record that counts is the DD214 and it better be right. Before its signed off on, they have to physically see every award for that time period or it doesn’t go on the form. And its compared to previous DD214s for accuracy. Although you can’t prove what you can’t see, you can at least correct the first part, which you clearly can.
So, this is what we get from the fascist fringe left here:
Kyle is moral abomination
Kyle helped invade a country and killed innocent people
Kyle is psychotic
Kyle’s number of medals is unserious topic
Kyle enjoyed killing “savages” (note, savages in quotes, which means “oppressed” muslims
US military has a not inconsiderable number of stone-cold killers
Lotsa proud killers in the service of the Rulers
Our culture promotes adulation of psychopaths
Nice picture. This is the Intercept cabal, the brown shirts: Greenwald, Frumkin, Hussein, Jilani, Khalek and their local sock puppets.
I got from this piece that Kyle performed legitimate heroic acts, but overstated his medal count. The piece seemed pretty balanced.
Having allowed that, I think the whole “Punisher” motif is pretty psychopathic, and his embellishments suggest some serious underlying issues.
Hopefully, the military will learn something from this so it’s important to explore it, though I can’t help but feel compassion for his wife.
Seems to me the number of medals is a very serious topic. You are a very confused and suspicious person, given to flights of righteous fancy.
He used the number off of his dd214. Move along, nothing to see here.
EXACTLY!!!!! Well said! ( For those who truly understand anyway!)
In order:
* Debatable
* Yes
* Debatable
* Clearly a serious topic as it’s the focus of the article
* He admitted as much himself, that he enjoyed killing the perceived enemy
* Absolutely accurate
* Accurate
* Debatable
You can leave your slander at the door. We’re talking facts here.
I am so sad and confused. My mum is 79 german and my dad 76 Mexican American my dad is a gung-ho Americans can do no wrong, my mum was a german refugee. My mum lived it, yet my dad grew up with John wayne. My parents got divorced , obviously, but it still manifests in all of our existence. I for one am sick of honoring every single person who served in the military, my dad included. My dad was an opportunist, he still uses his VA benefits, My dad was/is no hero, but he sure likes his benefits. It makes me sad and sick
Except he didn’t. If his DD214 says that, then his claims are correct.
You want to blame someone?
Blame the military for terrible record keeping. Blame the administrative apparatus for being incompetent. That’s not a new thing. Listening around a bit on the US side a lot of former military personnel has this problem.
Chris Kyle is a national hero. It doesn’t matter how many medals he was awarded. He certainly is a better person than those writing this awful story.
Dude, do you not have anything better to do with your time? Find some REAL issues to talk about. Starving children in foreign countries, modern slavery, curing awful diseases, bringing hope to the poor and disadvantaged. The list is endless. Quit looking to tear down this great nation, it’s heroes, and the greatest nation that has existed on this planet.
As a former sailor who served during Admiral “Mike” Boorman term and having actually met and had conversation with him,the official story on his “suicide” always seemed fishy. He was the ULTIMATE sailor. He rose from the lowest enlisted rank of E1 to being the highest ranking officer in the US Navy. He allegedly shot himself in the chest. Who does that? I haven’t investigated the official record on gunshot suicide,but I’m fairly certain most people who actually want to die or are actually the trigger man,put it through their head in some manner. And over a ribbon device? No,Mike Boorda would have been disgraced and the led by example,as he always did and own up,remove the rather small device and accepted his punishment. Because that level of honor and commitment to his men and women would have driven to show that being a real sailor is standing up and taking responsibility not running from it. I’m sorry,this article was definitely not about that and having sailed on a transport ship that carried SEALS,I have my own feelings on the publicity whoring going on amongst a group of Gods (in our eyes)that lurked in the shadows and “didn’t exist”. The mention of the great Admiral Boorda just took me WAY back.
This guy takes a mentally troubled man and hands him a loaded weapon. Thankfully an innocent person wasn’t shot. Can’t feel sorry for this guy. His rank negligence and foolishness could have cost an innocent life
My DD214 had three errors in it when I left the Marines honorably. I had the errors corrected, including missing campaign medals. It took a very long time and many letters to get it corrected. Just because something is in black and white in one’s DD214, doesn’t mean it is correct. Most of the crap put into the record is done by a private and signed off on by an NCO or SNCO. My advice to service members, get your DD214 in order before you get out. It is a herculean task to get it corrected once one is a civilian.
I served during the gulf war and earned 4 medals. I even remember shopping at the navy exchange store for a rack to hold the medals. But my dd214 only shows 1 medal. Point being there is no central authority, paper authority, or any authority on medals. I believe Chris Kyle’s medal count.
Let’s stop celebrating the storm troopers we sent to destroy a country and murder it’s innocent people.
Hear, hear!
The glorification of military service and service members (they’re all heroes!), is a cheap trick to lure poorly-educated and informed young people, and people with limited economic choices, and a not-inconsiderable number of stone-cold killers to fill the cannon-fodder slots of the perpetual war machine.
As compared to the highly educated people who cry, whine and scream about the biggest non-issues the US has? Sorry Yanker, your education “argument” doesn’t fly in light of reality. And let me ask you, what have you done? Ever served in anything?
Probably not. I like to call folks like him “consumers of the freedom others provide”. Of course the military is not for everyone,but jeez,don’t be an in grateful pick to those who did serve.
Let me ask you:
Who or what do you think you “served?”
Exactly.
You’d be speaking German today if it wasn’t for our stone-cold killers.
“You’d be speaking German today if it wasn’t for our stone-cold killers.”
Talking point Number 7 for the proud and deeply ignorant warmongers with a fantasy view of WWII history.
1. Germany had little interest in the US (except to the extent necessary because of our invasion of the Continent) and posed exactly no threat to America itself.
2. The Ally that, overwhelmingly, was responsible for victory over the Germans was the Soviet Union.
WE SENT HIM and he did his job honorably. Since when is a person “Innocent” while wearing a bomb vest, or shooting at our troops.. STFU
And kill our enemies where they sleep,so they won’t kill you where you and your family sleeps. Your welcome for your freedom,consumer.
The people Chris Kyle was forced to shoot, were not innocent by ANY MEANS. Most of them were terrorists doing everything they could to kill, maim, and torture the innocent people of Iraq and Afghanistan. He ended the lives of people who were intent on bringing chaos and intifada.
Good idea. Go celebrating violent thugs who assault police officers and try to take their firearms instead. Wait, you’re already doing that in the United States of Perpetual Butthurt.
As an Iraqi War vet myself, I’ve come to find that those who talk about their “heroics and accomplishments” are not heroes at all .. Just blowhards.
This man should not be worshiped as a hero. He lived by the gun and died by the gun. He was a serial liar and this descrepency in his medal count just proves that even more. He loved only two things if you read his own memoirs, guns and shooting people with guns. Clint Eastwood’s movie glorifying Kyle was disugsting as he left out so much of who this man was and what truly motivated him. The movie makes him seem somewhat remorseful or at least someone who didn’t want fame for his cowardly sniping acts. But in reality Kyle boasted about his killings and said he enjoyed his tour in Iraq most when he was pulling the trigger. I for one cheered a little bit when this dude was taken out.
I am a 20 year Navy Veteran, and my medal count is not accurate on my service record or my DD-214 (and both differ from the other). I actually have two different Navy Achievement Medals that are listed as my third. The way the Navy keeps records is very spotty. It is all done on paper and kept in archives. Chris Kyle would know how many of each medals he received. Since I am the only person in this entire world who can give an accurate count of my actual medals, it stands to reason that Chris Kyle’s count is the accurate one.
He’s dead. We’re just spinning, wasting energy on this topic.
Very tangential and minor, but I challenge the assertion that Adm. Boorda was found after his death to have inappropriately worn the addition to his medals. Certainly that was the accusation, and it horrified him so much that he killed himself, but my firm recollection of the inquiry after is that the rules were quite murky and could be read either way. His death was a serious blow to the US Navy, and I regret that the US military does not have a board that can review such concerns without hysteria.
Wow,CK,thought I was the only one here that the mention of the Admiral jumped out to. Thanks for your post as I was unaware of those findings after his death. I was an e nothing on the Uss Nashville during a visit from Adm Boorda. He actually stopped on the way to the flight deck,told his entourage to wait and had a 10 min conversation with me and my father on a dependents cruise. What an awesome man he was. I honestly don’t believe he did it himself. It was a chest shot,rare in suicides and he was the kind of sailor,having risen from an E1 to CNO,that would’ve shown his men and women that being a sailor is about owning up and facing your punishment with honor,not running. Anyway,thanks for that info. Just curious,did you serve?
Chris Kyle’s medals, how many he really had and all that, is an unserious topic. Matt Cole has done some superb investigative journalism here, including the articles about Eric [prince. But this is weak sauce.
The reason to be disturbed by Chris Kyle is that he was possibly psychopathic, and our cultural promotes adulation of such people. In his autobiography, Kyle states he doesn’t like politics, but: “I like war.” When he was investigated on claims he had murdered an Iraq civilian, this was his reaction:
Chris Kyle enjoyed his work. He enjoyed killing “savages” whose country he helped invade.
Chris Kyle was a moral abomination.
“The reason to be disturbed by Chris Kyle is that he was possibly psychopathic, and our cultural promotes adulation of such people.”
Got it in one.
Leave him alone.
There are a lot of issues with this story. First, who are these “unnamed” Navy officials? I think if you have the courage to question another Sailor’s record then you should also have the courage to put your record under scrutiny. Second, why are these people talking to the press about a Sailor’s record without going through the Public Affairs Officer? That to me speaks volumes about this person’s credibility. I’m glad I never served with someone like that. Lastly, NDAWS is subject to just as much human error as the PSD that prepares your DD214 if not more. For NDAWS to be correct it relies on your admin folks to submit the awards and the someone else to enter it into the system. It is highly common for awards to be missing from your NDAWS. As far as I’m concerned, if his DD214 says he has 2 silver stars and 6 bronze stars and he was claiming 2 silver and 5 bronze stars then that is not proof of stolen valor. It is only proof of understating your accomplishments. Where were these folks when he was still alive? Until I see some names attached to this sources then I will just consider it a hit piece which it is.
Written by non military JAFOS with no clue as usual. I have at least two awards/medals which arent in my DD-214 but I’m looking at them right there. At least back then, it was all dependent on whether another JAFO in the NAVPERS office was informed your own JAFO in your division properly and/or on time. In my case it never was and I still don’t care. To say he embellished because it’s not in his DD-214 is a massive over-reach.
It is not unusual for DD214s to be incorrect. I was in the Army and was part of Desert Storm. I know and have both a Good Conduct Medal and an Army Overseas Services Ribbon. Neither is reflected on my DD214. I know at least 5 other guys who had various ribbons or citations that are missing from the DD214. If you aren’t planning on staying in you don’t really care as long as it says “Honorable” .
As a former combat Vet, I can attest to the author’s point that sometimes the military gets the DD214 wrong. (That’s not me saying Chris Kyle’s FALSE valor is accurate, but be advised errors are made.)
In the days before centralization and data management by computers, we all had a “service record” that follows us around to our various duty stations. When discharged some lowly “secretary” is charged with the BORING task of completing our DD214 (using a typewriter), making carbon copies, presenting it to us for signature, keeping the original, sending that off to Washington, and we are sent out the base gate or ship, now a member of the inactive reserve. (In the Coast Guard the office worker specialty was called a “yeoman.” They dealt with all personnel matters.)
When I was discharged the yeoman asked “Look this over for accuracy, tell me if there are any corrections. If there is, your discharge will be delayed if I have to retype the document.” That was code for “don’t find any errors and you can “flee” out the door within minutes.”
I saw on my DD214 that the yeoman failed to list all the medals and ribbons I received. That was understandable since the Coast Guard in Vietnam had very few of us in actual combat. A stateside yeoman wouldn’t know about or understand the foreign awards we received. The yeoman did get right my highest award, the Combat Action Ribbon, which in military award structure is a fairly high award (as indicated by the fact that the CAR is listed on the Stolen Valor Act).
The yeoman did not list my Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation, a medium grade award, IMO not that big a deal.
When sitting in the yeoman’s office waiting to get officially set free, I was not concerned about what any of the DD214 reflected. The reality is, we want our final pay and the green light to get the hell out of the office.
All that said, absolutely no one makes a mistake about being awarded the Silver or Bronze Stars. Getting either of those awards is a BIG deal, a very big deal. And on the recipients end, this is NOT something which you simply forgot about “Gee, did I get one or two Silver Stars, did I get three or five Bronze Stars?”
The second wall or failsafe to making this kind of error would be the guy who prepares the DD214. Missing the count of Silver and Bronze Stars in one’s file, that’s simply not done. (How to explain Chris Kyle’s DD214 reflecting count errors? Well, that’s intentional, IMO. I suspect the DD214 is photoshopped. If done at the computer level, then someone within the Navy personnel system fooled with it.)
Most telling, my comment about how the system worked is based on the days when everything was mechanical (typewriters and paper shuffling). In these days of everything being done by computer, it is a factual impossibility to make Silver and Bronze Star errors.
The article says he was a hero and flawed. Fair enough.
I believe this stuff is just as important as going over Dan Rather’s background in great detail, as I’m convinced he’s still a compulsive liar for the status quo. Heard that idiot on an interview the other day where he stated that he agreed with the Warren Commission Report, which I’m damn sure he’s never read (wonder if he’s ever actually read a complete book, certainly not the 26 volumes, and addenda, of the WCR!
As a veteran and a human being, I have a fundamental problem with people who celebrate how many human lives they have ended.
What too many of us fail to understand is that we are just everyday people, who love, believe in, and wish to preserve our way of life: we want to feed our families and keep them safe within the context we have been provided.
The game of war is based on the puppet masters manipulating the Every Day People into thinking that they are somehow fundamentally different than the Every Day People of the declared enemy.
Everybody on the front lines should get real, lay down their weapons and acknowledge that we “commoners” are more alike than we are different: all we want to do is keep our families and way of life safe.
At some point, we need to stop being stooges. We need to reject the long-time SOP of de-humanizing the enemy so it is easier to kill them. We need to stand up with the those the puppet masters continue to try to convince us are our enemies and that is why we should zealously go out and try to kill and vanquish them. We need to tell these old men that if they have an ideological beef with another government, you need to sit down f2f like grown ups and find a way to resolve your differences and stop sending the children of the “regular folks” to fight and die for some shit that – in the long run – really doesn’t matter much at all.
Are you a veteran of the Salvation Army? Whatever is was, it certainly wasn’t combat arms.
2 tours, Baghdad and Taji 2003-2006. Mustang 2G(machine gunner/ QRF CMCR and patrol) COLT 4-1FA 3BDE 1AD USARMY
Feel the same way. I’ll never stop thinking about the people I’ve hurt; kids and parents I terrified. I don’t regret my service. I think I did well by my platoon and didn’t hurt anyone I wasn’t sure I had to. I hate that I can’t discuss it with other veterans but I don’t want anyone else to feel how I do; even if I know it’s just a side effect of being human but I feel fucking horrible about having fought for what’s increasingly looking like was a fraudulent war.
I say, no more children at war. Combat arms should be 25 yr/old minimum; post psychological evaluation to determine conscious understanding of mortality.
I hope every veteran who reads this understands I hold no judgement for any of you however you feel. You do you. It’s hard enough to live with the crap we have in our heads. you do you and I hope you be all be well.
This is a vet with real courage. Brava, Lauren!
Wasn’t this Kyle the same clown who claimed to have met and beaten up Jesse Ventura in a bar in Colorado, and this was disproven in court?
How is this news? The book is filled with lies. Acting as a sniper in New Orleans? The guy was a mental case and a compulsive liar.
And if you think that the military never makes clerical errors, I’ve got some oceanfront property to sell you in Nebraska!
At a time when the Pentagon and the Ring Club is having practically unlimited tons of money shoveled at it every hour of the day, isn’t it high time that someone started to fact check these “”For the good of the Service ” Types?
When someone like Kyle is permitted to LIE without public correction or contrition, does it not call into question all the other things being used to justify an military budget inflated beyond any reasonable need?
At West Point, the honor code says :
“A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
I suppose it’s different in the “Real” Armed “services” when you actually put on some of that shiny brass, because after that, your entire “duty” seems be to “Cover your Brass” for “The good of the Service”.
Some medals earned on some top secret missions don’t get listed on a DD-214.
That’s the public short form the Navy uses for public records. A snipers count and the official count vary. Bodies get dragged away by the enemy and those not accounted for by another military asset do not get listed officially. Just like the movie, He may have shot and killed 8 in one night, but in the morning there were only 6 bodies left to be verified as kills.
I think suing a dead soldier who cannot testify on his behalf and taking money off his family’s plate is abominable and I would like to take a swing at Jesse for that offense.
What is the agenda behind this article? What is their “payoff” for writing it? To prop up their credentials by stomping on a man’s grave? It’s just one more sneak attack on a dead man who can’t fight back anymore in my opinion.
If you wanted the truth, you would have gone to the SEAL bar in San Diego and asked some questions there first.
Well, duh.
Nearly every aspect of the Chris Kyle enterprise is tainted with distortion and flat out lies – with most of them being told in the shameless act of self-promotion.
His family fought hard to ensure much of Kyle’s BS would never come near the silver screen, resulting in a nearly 2 year negotiation with Warner Brothers over content. It took Cooper and Eastwood personally travelling to Texas to assure his kin that Kyle would receive an honorable rendering before the deal could be inked.
As a result, what screenwriter Jason Hall and Eastwood produced is a nearly totally fictionalized hallucination of the Chris Kyle that moviegoers WANTED TO SEE, not the flawed, ego-driven marksman hunting glory in Iraq. From literally the opening scene to the credits, the film contains content and situations that Kyle never experienced – and never claimed he did in his bio.
Bingo! You nailed it, George.
That is what I understood this fictional movie to be. Fiction…. based on accounts of the sniper, Chris Kyle. It was not supposed to be nor intended to be a documentary.
I’m glad you recognize it, Sir, but I must say that many folks simply aren’t that receptive to a critical analysis of a figure like Kyle, as evidenced by the vitriol spewed at the mere mention of Kyle’s unseemly side.
I think many of those record-setting moviegoers think they saw a faithful account of the man – and simply do not want to know anything that tarnishes that perception.
1. Since none of your ‘sources’ was willing to go on record, they should be pissed on and forgotten. Since you have no attributable sources, this entire article is junk.
2. Bob “Master” Bateman? Seriously? Have you looked this guy up? He’s not exactly the ‘go-to’ person for military knowledge or integrity. And he’s repeatedly violated his Oath of Commissioning. His credibility is ZERO.
3. If you can come up with on-the-record, credible sources, then try this again.
4. Hell, you didn’t even post his DD-214? Which clearly states you are lying?
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=65995
‘Due Diligence’. It’s actually a THING in journalism. Try it.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374
Most soldiers are not given to deep study of the history of past and present wars. If they knew what was really going on, many of them would not sign up.
Anthony Herbert, one of our most decorated Korean War Vets, was hounded for being a Vietnam War whistle blower. He tells of a case where about ten or so American soldiers take a 12 yr. old Vietnamese girl from her family, “for questioning”. They proceeded to beat, rape and sodomize her so badly, that she died shortly after being returned to her family. According to Herbert, one of the men received “a gentle slap on the wrist in a court martial hearing. The rest went free.
Most Americans know that the Germans bombed English cities during WW 2, but how many are aware that the civilian casualties we inflicted on France were actually larger, or that German soldiers seldom raped French women, but that American soldiers raped them by the thousands?
We did end up executing some of these rapists, but even then, there was a problem. Most of those executed were poor black soldiers, the white got off free or with a lesser sentence.
If it says one thing on his DD-214 and that is what he represents as being the case, I don’t see the problem. The DD-214 is supposed to be the official short form of your service. Whenever you are applying for benefits or required to show proof of your service, the DD-214 is all you need and is kind of the Gold Standard. He may be different in that he was a hero/celebrity, but once you get your DD-214 you just accept it. I don’t think I have ever examined mine and used it only for benefits. This seems like much ado about very little. I’m generally an anti-war vet and saw the movie and am not all gung ho about Kyle’s supposed heroic status, but this article seems like someone trying to create a scandal out of almost nothing.
It fits Matthew Cole’s apparent “agenda” based on his writing history.
He knew how many medals he was given. He lied when the truth would of been just as good. Seems to have been a pattern. Stories about shooting people from atop the Superdome and punching Jesse the Body illustrate his precarious relationship with the truth. We all know people like this. I had a boss who told a room full of people about how he defused a nuclear weapon. The irony of how the man died is stunning and illustrates the randomness of gun mayhem.
Exactly
Oh, bullshit… So if you finally got around to reading your DD-214 and found that it had been switched with someone who had won the Medal of Honor, you’d feel fine about going around and telling people you had earned your nation’s highest award for valor? “Oh, well, that’s the official record, nothing to be done about it…” I’d bet if you were having trouble getting a job and found your DD-214 said you had been dishonorably discharged for committing a bunch of crimes, you wouldn’t accept that you were now a criminal and there was nothing to be done about. I bet you’d get it straightened out real quick. God, intellectual dishonesty pisses me off…
The DD214 is not the end all and be all. There are may cases where awards for valor have been recommended, are in the long process of being awarded but have not been by the time of separation from service. If the service member was wounded and leaves the theatre of action, gets discharged from a medical facility far from their unit, the record book that we take from duty station to duty station may not ever catch up to them, resulting in an incomplete record altogether. Not to mention that many awards for “valor” are the result of bullshit incidents and those that have all those ribbons are usually considered glory hounds by their fellow service members.
Amen. He used his 214. Let it go. His statements in his book jive with his DD214. It wasn’t embellishment.
I never saw the fascination and hero worship about this guy. Reading what he said, I heard a psychopath, not a hero. And for those who want to bury the truth because he’s dead, that is only perpetuating the lies. Continuing the worship of the military industrial complex distorting an entire society, blatantly promoting more of the same dysfunction. There is a time and place for sacrifice. It is not when a far is manufactured to promote evil gain. The man had a massive ego. He loved to kill. When one kills because one must, because there is no other way to end the evil, that is one thing. We had to do that in WWII. We were in Iraq for different reasons.
Some within question the kills claimed and if all were truly enemy combatants. Some even mention innocent women and children in this body count. If you want to unravel the corrupt members just follow the special interest$ ties to Hollywood and DC. It was no mistake the WH let loose with just who was on the OBL raid. Then Extortion 17 to shut the good guys up forever. Then even more deaths and purported suicides within Teams. But we can’t question any of that right? It’s unpatriotic. Being a Seal is an achievement no doubt but ability does not convey or imply unquestionable Integrity. Sensing the lid on the pot is rising….
All christian talibanistas should be vetted as they are known liars.
The guy is dead. What good is there in dragging this all up?
If he was alive, and his credibility mattered, sure – fine – it’s fair game.
But he’s been dead for 3 years. What’s the point?
Whatever sound reasons might exist to object to this article, that the subject is dead is not one of them. History much?
Credibilty still matters at any point. Period. If someone is dishonest to cover the truth well and for a long time, they should not get away with it. The point is to set the record straight. Yes, no more, no less is owed to the LIVING?
Interesting. Credibility, honest, and competence don’t matter to liberals when they pertain to a sociopath like Hillary Clinton.
In my case, 13 yrs and 7 months of honorable and faithful service without embellishment is absolutely different from 13 yrs 7 months of partial fiction. This is about the the blood and honor given for this country.
I agree…….
Because he’s a liar and his estate was unjustly enriched at the expense of others because of his lies. The point is his estate is appealing at least one verdict against it but as the evidence of his lying piles up deeper and deeper, that should influence the legal outcome(s).
The DD-214 is generally considered the definitive account of someone’s career. I’d put more stock in that than off the record comments that they knew he was embellishing his record.
“Lotsa proud killers in the service of the Rulers (and fanboys and wannabes) here today.”
That’s what the left has degenerated into nowadays. They pledge allegiance to one thing only: their own a$$ hole. And they loooove the word collective. So, I should say a proud Collective of A$$holes. They can’t hold their bile even during the Memorial Day week…
Readers: I think it may be time to begin simply ignoring this nasty troll, unless it posts something that absolutely requires a response, for the sake of truth and decency.
Roger that. It’s been banned tons of times, but it does have a job to do, after all: Flood comments with bullshit. It thinks this is gonna somehow harm the site’s journalism. Well, whatever gets it thru the nite.
Major General Smedley Butler
War is a racket
By Major General Smedley Butler
https://archive.org/stream/WarIsARacket/WarIsARacket_djvu.txt
Read about the “Business Plot ” as well. I believe that the opinion of a distinguished career soldier (officer) should be afforded some weight.
Most people are unaware of the psyop which promotes the worship of the military as if any questioning of it was somehow unpatriotic. People wake the flock up. The military has corrupt members and officers in it up to the WH and you all need to realize it is not immune to corruption. The corrupt cabal have figured out how to make a buck and it hurts the Team. In this age whistleblowers are ridiculed, demoted and if too persistent wind up dead.
If Kyle served under glory hounds Jacko and Charlie Babbette then he was probably asked or pushed to inflate his record. It works out well for the wondertwins endlessly touring the news rooms and yucking it up on camera. Anyone else notice the dark side within the teams constantly seeking to make a buck and seeking the limelight at the expense of the true professionals? Watching closely the investigation into bookwriter Bissonette and who else is involved in the purported contract fraud with a prime vendor. It is way higher than him and let’s hope that the money trail is exposed to show how high it goes…. RADM Losey should circle the wagons and bring to light the dirty few that hurt the Teams.
To the author, the military service record will not display medals or other commendations awarded on classified missions. There’s also the fact that many people’s service records are incomplete. Some people actually were commended or awarded but never received the medals and sometimes the DD214 form is more accurate. I know this because my father never actually received two medals that he earned and was approved for in Vietnam. The award and medal process is complicated and often times goes off memory. Therefore, this “important” and “dishonorable” story you have printed has no other purpose than to defame his image because he was not politically compatible with the media’s platform.
This is pure horse pucky. I don’t know where to begin. progressives (I consider myself one) have a hard time with the military community as it is, and the intercept prints as news a discrepancy between a DD 214 and some other navy records. Hell, the fact he received one Silver start is enough for most vets like myself.
What are we trying to accomplish with this?? What is the goal, the aim? Are we going to dig him up and give him a field grade article 15 or bring him up on some stolen valor charge?
The dude received at least one legit silver star. Do you even know what that means??
Wow..You guys are pathetic. Very pathetic.
You find distorting the truth, if he did, an honorable thing? As stated in the article, officers and commanding officers told him to change it and some said it was dishonorable. I’m not saying he isn’t hero for what he did do, but why embellish? It diminishes those who actually earned it. You’re right, there is nothing to gain from this and nothing will come of it, but why not set the record straight. He’s not above that, is he? He made himself famous by writing a book. So his story is fair game. The article doesn’t denigrate his service and the content mainly comes from people who worked around him. The article was respectful to him and not a personal attack by any means.
Martin, key here is, if he did distort the truth. We don’t know and he can’t be asked. the DD-214 says one thing and others say another. If he claimed to have the 2 silver stars and the DD-214 did not support it, most vets would question him. In this case the DD-214 supports his claim. Until someone can tell me he personally committed fraud as it relates to his DD-214 then the insinuation is quite harsh.
I never read the book or seen the movie but I bet the book was written AFTER his term of service as was the movie, so he used the DD-214 as his reference for his awards.
Again, its about the insinuation that gets to me. The man is dead and his DD-214 said he earned the awards. Whats the problem?
The fact that The Intercept finds themselves dredging up Chris Kyle’s records, digging not just into his DD-214 but other documentation, especially right before Memorial Day, just shows your true stripes even more.
I’m sure you felt attacking a dead veteran right before the day of remembrance for those fallen was just as “in the public interest” as the trove of documents from the U.S. intelligence community you insist on publishing to great harm of the U.S. national security interests, while the vast majority of it indicates absolutely nothing unconstitutional or illegal.
The Intercept yet again makes it painfully obvious that it places clicks, views, and the publicity of its staff well above anything else.
Kyle would not be eligible for recognition on Memorial Day because he did not die in the line of duty.
Further, I wish people would stop with this “he was murdered!” crap. No, he wasn’t: he was killed. He was killed by a veteran whom the VA had determined should not have access to firearms. He died conducting “therapy” that he was not in any way qualified to conduct, and which the VA had advised him was extremely dangerous and that he should not do.
“Kyle would not be eligible for recognition on Memorial Day because he did not die in the line of duty.”
Where were you to tell the Intercept before: we might have been spared of this hateful article…
Being “killed” IS murder…
I too received awards more than a year after I separated from service. That said, the DD214 tends to understate decorations and awards. Bullshit story from a rag.
But yet you’re reading it and commenting on it. ‘That said, the DD214 tends to understate decorations and awards’, Really? Post some proof tough guy.
Those in command are not about to contradict Kyle’s account because he has become a hero and legend in a war we had no place being in from the start. The blowback from that war is the destabilization of the entire region. They flaunt his exploits that Americans ate up since the release of his book and then the film. It is a great distraction from the fact that those in power started a war that ended in a power vacuum that has resulted in ISIL and other groups gaining control of what was once delicate yet more stable region. I am most grateful to those who serve our country but I am disgusted by those who send them into harms way for their agenda and then don’t have the decency to offer them the support they need when they return. I will spend this Memorial Day remembering the sacrifices made by my ancestors, loved ones, and the families of so many others who have paid the ultimate price. Memorial Day is not about get drunk and breaking out the grill, it is about honoring those who have paid in blood for our freedom because freedom is not free.
So what else is new? White Americans Soldiers who think they automatically qualify as “heroes” the moment they join the Army for their lack of career choices in life. Everyone is a Vet and a Hero with these guys, lol, so funny. Only if they realize that soldiers are “Glorified” so the steady pace of red necks line up for the title and our tax money. Of course this guy lied, of course he wrote a bullshit story about his life in the military.. I mean, aren’t all White Males mentally challenged according to the papers? every time they rape, kill, provoke violence.. its always the same sorry excuse. You guys want a safer world? take the guns away from the unqualified rednecks with them 2 digit IQ’s and we should be good. All you southerners and Middle America hicks needs to realize that the world is WAY bigger than your shit hole, rural trailer park. I mean, look at how many of them are overweight, dumb, irresponsible, lacking in common sense and poor. These are the dumb shits that are wrecking the country, staining the Great American name world wide, complaining about minorities spending their Tax Money, yet, they’re almost all unemployed and relying on the Gov’t to cut them their “Veteran’s” check.
I understand that some soldiers enlist as a family tradition. That is respectable. That is Brave and American in the truest sense. The rest? the ones who join for the money and the “glory”.. Typical, White, Redneck, Trash.
Guaranteed that this Chris Kyle retard was a redneck piece of shit as well. Typical American White Trash. Make America Great Again and let the rednecks all sink with Florida.
Lots of truth to what you are saying but still kind of harsh. I had to go to prison to find people who were dumber than the ones I met in the military. I always hated those D-Bay names they gave operations. Operation Enduring Freedom. I alway thought I’d come up with a better name, but I guess no one wanted to have to tell parents that their kid died in Operation Ruptured Testicle. Chris Kyle doesn’t bug me, but I feel his biggest crime was being boring. God was his book boring. I think he lied to make up for the fact that he was sooo boring.
Thank for the honest comments! That same white redneck trash are the new “American Patriots” who support the second amendment.
Why would you even bring this up? What’s the difference between 1 or 2 Silver Stars? He is a far braver man than I am or probably you. He sacrificed much more than most Americans doing what he believed in and should be remembered as a hero.
SCPO USN (ret)
The difference is that he had 1 not 2. Just another black mark in the history of an American hustler killing for corporations.
“He is a far braver man than I am or probably you.”
Yeah, sniping: killing from concealment at a distance, the very epitome of bravery.
Do you admire German snipers at Normandy, heroes like Gefreiter Kurt Spengle, as much as you do Kyle?
How about “Apache,” famous female Viet Cong sniper who inflicted devastating losses on US Marines on Hill 55, among other places? Hero?
How about the German snipers who were picking off Allied troops in the final days and hours leading up to “eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month” of 1918 — and the Allied snipers doing the same from the other side? Were they all heroes?
Or is a killer only a hero if s/he kills for “our side?”
I’m sure he deserved more medals than he got. Seals go above and beyond.
Which ones? Can you elaborate? Why didn’t he receive them?
Kyle also claimed to have shot 30 armed looters in New Orleans following hurricane Katrina. He said he used a high-powered rifle from a perch on top of the SuperDome. This story has been shown to be almost certainly false (as reported in the New Yorker).
Kyle also claimed to have shot and killed two armed gunman at a gas station in Texas. This story (also investigated by the New Yorker) is very likely a fabrication.
One wonders what went on in Kyle’s mind that, after his service, compelled him to represent himself as a cold-blooded, if not psychopathic, killer.
Why would you even bring this up? What’s the difference between 1 or 2 Silver Stars? He is a far braver man than I am or probably you. He sacrificed much more than most Americans doing what he believed in and should be remembered as a hero.
He should be remembered as a hero for participating in an illegal and unjust war?
“according to one current Navy officer, who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak about the case.”
Then he needs to STFU about things that he is not authorized to speak of.
As far as the DD214 is concerned, it is not always an accurate record of medals and awards. I had more awarded than was recorded on my DD214 when i left the military. I had three medals awarded after I seperated. They were medals that were being processed when I seperated, but I still fell under the timeframe psecified for the award. I think the last one came about 3 or 4 years after I returned to civilian life, for an outstanding unit award or a campaign medal. I’ve never seen awards removed after a DD214 was created, but I guess it could happen.
DD Form 214 can be corrected at any time. If you have the appropriate paperwork for recognitions/awards you received after your 214 was generated, you should contact the VA and the Board of Correction of Military Records and have your 214 corrected.
I would imagine everyone who served during the Cold War and right after realizes how many times an award should have been given, yet it either could not be officially accounted for or a commander would not let it be done. All this research into a hero that all have agree is a hero, is a real statement on how sad the careers if these two authors must be. Are there not enough bad people out there to harass?
Welcome to 2016….if your handsome and studly looking, you get a trophy.
I served during the cold war. Saw some rough days…where, I won’t say.
My reward/medal is watching my family live free.
Lotsa proud killers in the service of the Rulers (and fanboys and wannabes) here today.
There’s no glory in participating in unnecessary wars of aggression that ravage whole regions, kill or destroy the lives of thousands of Americans and millions of others, while laying waste to vast swathes of the planet and setting the stage for strife, violence, suffering and hatred for generations to come.
Real heroes “just say no.”
Courage to Resist
Well said, Doug. This man had courage — he spent seven years in prison for opposing unjust wars, war crimes and nuclear proliferation.
Dear Authors, It’s your right to free speech that allows you to attack the moral character of a man who willingly served to protect your rights. If that isn’t a bit of shortsighted leftist irony, I don’t know what is.
“. . . a man who willingly served to protect your rights.”
That’s the fantasy bullshit Americans have been brainwashed to believe for generations. Nothing about the despicable American wars in the ME and Central Asia have anything to do with protecting our rights or freedoms, or defending us from danger. And, knowingly or not, willingly or not, those who serve in such wars are serving the 0.1%, the Empire, and the military-industrial complex. They are decidedly not serving a noble cause, although many of them have been conned into believing they are.
Exactly! Seems people have a hard time understanding this basic fact. They didn’t protect my rights. What they actually did was destroy other peoples rights and get awards for doing so. What a lark.
So because someone serves, they can do whatever the hell they want such as lie? I think CK is a hero among heroes but I don’t understand his motivation to lie. Silver and Bronzer stars aren’t awarded every day so the fact he has even one of either is an achievement in itself. His service is irrelevant to him being dishonest and to say his service gives him this privilege is absolute absurdity.
Perhaps it wasn’t him, and it was some PR agency thinking ‘oh it looks better if he has 2 and 5 versus 1 and 3″
Are all the awards on his DD214? If they are, then this opinionated hit piece is irrelevant, much like the lives of those that wrote it and those “interviewed” for it. The DD214 is the final word.
The DD214 is the record of service, whether it be for medals, ribbons, basic and advanced schools, earned NECs (Navy Enlisted Classification), earned warfare qualifications (SEAL, EAWS, SCW, ESWS, etc.). Deploying units such a SEAL team have there own Admin/Personnel departments and do not rely upon the local installation Personnel Department for service record entries. If there is a discrepancy between the DD214 and any award received, qualification earned, etc, the service member will have a record of that award or qualification in there annual Eval. Many times awards will be given to service members who have already separated from active duty in which case a form is added to the service record to indicate the amendment of the DD214 and an amended DD214 is generated at a local (in this case Navy) reserve center, the service member verifies the information is correct, sign it and is given the original and carbon copies of the amended DD214. Poor job by this “journalist” and publication “editor” in doing their homework. If you had a copy of his DD214 and any amendments then would be able to tell if there were any discrepancies in what he claimed and what he earned. Until then, let’s not slander someone who gave everything he had to this country.
Did you not read the article? It included this paragraph:
According to two current Navy officials, inaccurate information about Kyle’s awards is also contained in his separation document, known in the military as a DD214, which usually reflects a veteran’s official service record. Kyle’s DD214 form, which lists two Silver Stars and six Bronze Stars with Valor among his decorations, also differs from the number of Bronze Stars with Valor — five — that Kyle listed in his book.
The bolded bit is a link.
So, he actually has 1 more bronze star then he named in his book? Oh dear, we got some stolen fucking valor here.
There are numerous reasons a DD-214 may be different then the records of the Department of the Navy, including awards received posthumously, awards received after separation from service, and command communication negligence (not forwarding the approved medals to the Dept. of the Army/Navy/AF.
Half the guys I served with in Iraq have awards on their DD-214 they were awarded, that the Dept. of the Army doesn’t have. No one gives a flying fuck about amending their records once they have their DD-214.
I don’t care about Chris Kyle’s medals, or how many there really are. But your criticism of the story was flatly wrong.
They should care about their DD Form 214 being correct. Certain decorations during certain time periods are connected to additional veteran’s benefits.
I work for a contractor and deal with different military clients. They are among the most inept record keepers I’ve ever encountered. I wouldn’t trust anyone’s account of who has how many medals, etc.
Five minutes of my life I’ll never get back – gee, thanks! The only value I take from this article is to realize this author (and the publication) are about as worthless and anti-American as can be.
Yes, this publication, which is partially headed up by Glenn Greenwald, who helped to expose the corruption of the security state, is anti-american. Unless you are okay with the fascist security state set up by the US government….
It always pisses me off when articles like this are written. If you really knew anything about Kyle, or almost ALL soldiers who are wired like him…a medal means zilch. I know a lot of fully decorated soldiers who put all their medals in a box and put that box in a dark, deep place. If you never served in that capacity, then you can’t ever be expected to understand. It’s really easy, though, to stand on the sideline and judge others. It makes me sick. As for the ‘unidentified’ SEALS who made comments that reflected badly on Kyle? Familiar with the word J-E-A-L-O-U-S-Y? It exists in every avenue of life, I’m sad to tell you.
So why lie? Why mention it? Why write a book about “quiet heroism”? If we let all military veterans lie, how would our history books read?
If they mean so little, why lie so much about how many you have? This guy wanted all the attention and to be lauded as a “hero”. hell, Eastwood made a terrible movie about him. Seems maybe his embellishments went a long way.
Chris Kyle was a good soldier. But, there’s serious doubt as to him being a good person.
kyle started a blackwater wannabe squad called “craft”. the motto worn on their sleeves was “violence solves everything”. it certainly solved his racist ass, didn’t it?
i don’t care if he had enough stars to fill the night sky: those stars are trinkets to reward killers for killing in places they shouldn’t have been in the first place. we need to stop pretending that every overseas imperial adventure for oil and treasure is the damn beach at normandy.
what should bother any rational person is what he told the truth about; a contest to kill civilians and get his “count up” is a good example. and if you want to focus on his “story telling ability”, let’s talk about his klan-approved fantasy of shooting “looters” [texas parlance for “uppity coloreds”] in new orleans.
kyle was a lying thug at best. let’s all do the world a favor and leave him in the dustbin of history.
Wow. You sound angry. Ever serve? Ever do anything, for anyone, worth a crap? I doubt it. In case you aren’t aware…soldiers don’t decide where they go, or who they are ordered to kill. You want to air that beef? Take it to DC, pal. Kyle’s job, was to be better than every guy on the other side trying to kill his fellow troops, and in that task, he excelled. I see you are one of those clowns who believed Kyle was hired by private security to sit on top of the Superdome during Katrina picking off thieving scumbags. If ONLY it were true.
“. . . soldiers don’t decide where they go, or who they are ordered to kill.”
Another American who either never heard of the Nuremberg Principles or thinks they don’t apply to “us.”
So do you believe a person in uniform should always kill whoever they are ordered to kill? That the only relevant metric is whether they did the job of killing well?
Yes indeed.
Cole and McNeill should be ashamed of themselves, except I doubt they have the ethical capacity to do so. Hopefully they do not breede and leve the gene pool less contaminated than when they arrived. Kyle was a decorated Seal. How does they background stack up? Kyle won two award just below the level of the medal of honor, what have they done? Kyle, though his actions saved hundreds of American and International service men and women, perhaps Cole and Mcneill consider that a bad thing. It sure seems like it as they have literally stooped to digging through the data dumpster, sifting through trash to dig up unsubstantiated garbage in order to smear the record of an American hero.
I’m confused. Where is his DD214? Citations mean nothing to your claims.
Citations are the source documents for the 214. So, yeah: they are important.
Meh, I take all war stories with a grain of salt.
The big topper, I once had a guy in a bar lie to my face claiming that he was an 18B in the US Army (Did this guy really think I would believe that he was SF, or hope that I did not know what an 18B was?). I thought it was BS and looked into it further. Not only was he not SF, but he never served in the military in any capacity. I never did have the heart to call him out on it.
Did the Navy inform you that there are certain medals that even the foia will not be released to? The DD214 is the ultimate authority on what a soldier, sailor or airman has earned. Some medals are cleared to wear but the citation is classified and not to be released
The citations are source documents that support the DD 214. So, yeah: they are kinda important.
I’m a liberal and I think this article is weak attempt to disparage an American Hero. This hatchet job is disgraceful and un American. Chris Kyle is a war hero, so sorry the hacks that wrote this trash are not.
Disgraceful!
This is bullshit….. A Seal with a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars all for Valor… Who the hell is counting except someone who never served, and does not understand how difficult it is to win a silver Star, or what courage it takes to lay it all on the line for your country and your buddies.
What’s your rank Lloyd?
If only intrepid journolists investigated leftist politicians with this degree of nitpicking.
So maybe he counted the one his commanding officer recommended him for…and that was put on his DD214 because he didn’t know higher ups were going to dismiss it?
And maybe he didn’t care afterward about how DC counts..because he knew what he and his fellow officers had been asked to do?
How do you sleep at night? When you know people will read
the title and not the whole story.
The only stolen valor is this article. And what it and Ventura
did to a grieving young widow and a hero’s honor.
Now that is bullshit. Kyle defamed another former service member, and his estate was properly liable for the damages.
No disrespect towards the brave men and women of the military, but the system is FUBAR. In nearly every area of strategic, tactics and operations. Is it really that much of a surprise that the Navy doesn’t have it’s own $hit figured out regarding medal count? It’s lucky if it knows where it’s people and equipment are half the time…
So one record says that he has a silver and three bronze; his dd214 says that he has two silver and six bronze. Mr. Kyle said that he had two silver and five bronze. So instead of looking at this as some sort of clerical error and possibly giving the man the benefit of the doubt seeing as the Navy can’t even agree, you decide to call a dead man a liar and back it up with a bunch of quotes from “people” who you don’t identify. Solid journalism. /s
Although I think he is a true hero and loved the movie, wouldn’t his wife have his medals and could argue that they were actually given to him? and btw, jesse ventura deserved to get slapped.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/james-rogers-bush/there-is-no-glory-in-being-a-chris-kyle/988129991243337
As the article points out, an administrative clerk is responsible for listing any awards/decorations received during the discharge process. Mistakes can and do happen, I know this from experience. Correcting them is another matter so it’s unclear to me whether he deserved the medals he claimed or not. No one should judge him based solely on this article. What I am sure of is he served honorably for almost 11 years, mostly in combat zones, which is a damn site more than the average American can claim. RIP Kyle.
Another “brilliant” piece of Intercept’s “journalism.” Let’s take a dead soldier, decorated veteran with 1 silver and 3 bronze stars, and put some sewage on him: the Intercept sewage. He lied; he has just 1 silver star instead of 2. Na, na, na, na, na…
Another “wonderful” leak. I am not a conservative, but I got to say: f**k you, liberal trash…
But he was a sailor, not a soldier. You shouldn’t be so judgmental if you can’t even get simple facts correct either.
So, navy seals are not soldiers? Where did you get your GED?
Webster Definition of a Soldier: one engaged in military service and especially in the army
Actually, SEALs are a Navy special ops element. So, yeah – he was was a sailor, not a soldier.
Navy = Sailors
Air Force = Airmen
Army = Soldiers
Marine Corps = Marines
The only common term is “troops.”
He repeatedly lied about his history and decorations, Gomer…he’s an a**hole, and so are you.
You earn medals…and when you, for whatever reason lie about getting medals, that dishonors the men you served with. Then this person went on to profit off the lie as did his wife. You can blame everyone else, but he was warned ahead of time about his lies and still chose to go through with them.
The difference can easily be explained by some of the “Top Secret” missions he was on.
Besides, dragging a man’s name through the mud based upon a “small” difference in count is disgraceful.
Receiving one of those awards, is plenty to be thankful for his service. Or that fact he (or anyone) served so you do not need to.
No. For one thing, if true there’d be no discrepancies in the two records if that were the case; they’d both omit the other medals. For another, this is also my understanding of what happens when the mission is classified.
This article isn’t to my liking, but it isn’t the case that the members of the armed services regard claims of medals one does not have to be a “small difference in count.”
Didn’t he drag Jesse Ventura’s name through the mud? Remember when heroes were humble instead the Carnival-barker self-promoters we have today?
Sure Chris Kyle made an error about him encountering Jesse Ventura. But both Kyle and Ventura along with many other S.E.A.L.S and SWCC will be forever American patriots.
I’ve personally never met a combat veteran that spent much time tooting his own horn.
This is ridiculous.
Frankly the guy sounds like he was mostly a jerk and sociopath while he was alive. Although I would expect that sociopaths make very good long distance killers.
Still, I’m not sure why getting only 1 silver star and 2 bronze stars for valor as opposed to a higher number is a big deal.
It is not a big deal to you and me, but to fellow Seals it is. If you read the article, it is “stolen valor” and is highly unethical. Chris Kyle knew this and was warned about it and did it any way. Woops, there goes his cred.
It is a big deal because it calls into question to some of the other claims…and verifies some of the criticisms. Look he served his country which is more than admirable – but he turned himself into a celebrity and spent quite a bit of time talking about himself. So when one’s declared proof of “greatness” is inaccurate it is worth noting. Kyle was a man, brave, patriotic, flawed, egotistical, not perfect…he was not a superman. People need to remember this….
A lot of vets embellish. The longer you are out, the more of a hero you were. haha. In my reserve unit, m-16 training was a joke. I had just got back from basic and qualified marksman (lowest..because my weapon malfunctioned but still qualified)..then we went as a reserve unit to qualify and the scorers would falsify the scorecards such that everyone qualified expert (highest)…It was a joke. LOL
I’d say it was your reserve unit and a clearly toxic environment that was the joke.
Regular units do not do this, and embellishing awards is one of the worst lies you can tell as a military person.
Just because you and your POS unit were disgustng, doesnt mean “a lot of vets embellish”, it sounds like a lot of people you are around are filth undeserving of the name of veteran. And by the way, you arent a veteran of anything, you are/were a reservist, unless you went overseas you havent earned the title of veteran.
My Brother was in the reserves and i guess is labeled a “reservist”. served overseas for 2 years following 9/11, i understand that was the first time theyve been called into active duty but still don’t label reservist as non veterans, they train and put time into serving this country just like every other military branch. And hes very much my hero.
my reserve unit did not “falsify” records.
They & you are a disgrace for allowing it
So he has fewer medals than John Kerry? (4 vs. 5)
John Kerry has 0 medals, he through those he was questionably given back and therefore does not rate claiming he has them.
Laughed out loud that this article had to issue a correction due to embellishment.
First off, as a journalist, this article breaks the first principle of journalism, which is ethics. Try writing an article about a person who is alive and can defend himself if need be. Secondly, to all you internet trolls who openly hate the military, please feel free to click on the link I have provided to you below.
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces
Next time you want to bash these American heroes, try standing in FRONT of them and not BEHIND them running your mouths. These people put their lives on the line every single day to protect our freedoms, which includes the freedom of speech that all of you lovely humans seem to enjoy taking privilege of every single day. If you don’t like OR appreciate the sacrifices these men and women make for me and you, guess what? You have the FREEDOM to kindly leave America. God Bless, you people need it.
Yea, George Washington is dead so no one can write anything about him any more……moron!
So before I criticize Congress, I should run for office and serve a term? Before I criticize that Chevy or Ford vehicle, I should get a job manufacturing them for a while? It’s OK to tell the truth, you know? Why can’t people admit that Kyle was both a hero who also happened to tell a lie from time-to-time? Stop being so sensitive. Maybe you need a safe space?
The guy lied about his medals, lied about being on the roof of the Superdome during Katrina and killing 30 looters (hopefully it’s a lie and he did not in fact kill 30 US citizens), lied about killing 2 carjackers in Texas, lied about Jesse Ventura etc etc. A real stand up guy. I don’t openly hate the military, but at the same time I have a hard time finding someone invading a country and killing people less than heroic.
I’m sure you would also call a Syrian sniper that came to America and killed 100 US citizens as heroic also? Of course not…because we are America and it’s ok for us to invade other countries and kill their people.
Protecting our freedom?? If they were protecting our freedom they would be marching down Pennsylvania Ave. Can’t remember the last time an Iraqi illegally detained me and checked my papers at a road block…or the last time an Iraqi threatened to throw me in jail for expressing my opinion.
Kyle never ever said he was on the rooftop of the Superdome during Katrina. Why dont you libturds actually read his book? There is no mention of him even being in New Orleans before or after Katrina. And he never lied about Ventura…he was dead before he could defend himself in court. Ventura won the case because it was his word against a dead guy’s word, and he only had to prove his reputation was harmed, which is irrelevant of whether or not the event happened.
And you’re a tool for making an analogy of Syrian snipers coming to America and shooting 100 citizens. Kyle was in Iraq at the request of the government, the entire US was. He was shooting enemy combatants and terrorists. Your analogy would be accurate if the US invited the United Nations to help stop the liberal terrorists BLM from killing US police officer, and that Syrian sniper took out 100 BLM terrorists. Yes, he would be a hero.
@Nicole F.
“this article breaks the first principle of journalism, which is ethics.”
None of the Intercept’s hacks is a journalist. They are loud mouth hacks with radical agenda: they are hypocrites promoting Islamism, Marxism, Jew hatred and bigotry; and they are in cahoots with the government via Omydiar. That’s why it is going to take 600+ years to publish all Snowden’s documents.
And you and “gorsky” are the same vile human being who has had something like 10 accounts here banned already. You hate this site because you are an unhinged Zionist who hates Muslims — especially Palestinians — and you (rightly) consider this site dangerous to apartheid Israel.
That is the end of my public service announcement.
I think you don’t know what freedom means
So how are or were American troops protecting any of our “freedoms” in Iraq? Iraq had nothing to do with 911. It did not have the capability to attack the US and it certainly had no ability to conquer the US and prop up a new government with no Bill of Rights.
Chris Kyle was a hero the day he joined the military and moreso once deployed as a SEAL in combat. For whatever reason, he felt the need to embellish his record and it only has reflected poorly on him.. You were already a hero to many people, unsure how effed up he was with all the lies.
Hey you liberals idiots, leave Kris alone…..He’s done nothing to you…..I have more respect for whale #$#@ then you idiots.
Sorry you feel such incredible disrespect for your fellow Americans.
This Liberal served honorably for 11 years in the United States Army Medical Corp.
What have YOU done lately?
As we head for Memorial Day (another day to honor War Heroes) what about a day to honor the DIPLOMATS who tirelessly work to avoid war and its horrendous consequences. Aren’t they equally as “heroic?????”
They are good people. But, no, they are not as heroic.
The State Department would disagree with you. http://www.afsa.org/afsa-memorial-plaque-list
This “article” is nothing more than two lefty operatives who have nothing else to write about…and need to do anything to keep their ‘careers’ going. So, what to do…Let’s write a slam-piece against an American hero, who once done with his military service tried to reach out to other men, who’d experience the horrors of war…YES, let’s get him! BTW…his official paperwork lists the medal exactly as he states them. BTW2…I work for a HUGE media company and recently no one here could decide whether a certain athlete had 34 titles or 26…so the NAVY can certainly be imprecise…as I’ve also spent time with 2 carrier groups. Having one of any of these stars is enough for me…having more than one of each – astounding. Copied from below:http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=65995 Get your heads out of your asses you lefty scumbags. The pendulum is swinging backwards – nothing you say can stop November from coming.
Same guy that claimed he slapped Jesse Ventura. Bitch move.
While useful information, I doubt that anyone cares. Those who already believe he walks on water will brush this off as a media slur, and his detractors will just see this as more evidence that the publics hero worship continues to be misplaced. It’s kinda like learning that Jefferson was frisky with his slaves, or Lincoln took liberties conducting the Civil War. It’s colorful background, but it doesn’t change anything. At the end of the day Kyle is still dead.
And for that, I am thankful.
I wonder How many medals a Seal gets for shooting an old man while his jailers turn their backs?
How can a person who is trained to hide from the enemy and kill unsuspecting people from long distances be considered a hero or exhibiting valor?
You try to decide in seconds if someone could kill the platoon on the ground or not.
Personally I could give a shit. He was a hero…… PERIOD
OK then, let’s just write another book, filled with even more lies! He’s a hero, so why not! He got 7 purple hearts, 12 silver stars, and 39 Bronze stars! HEROIC!
Give me back my $11 movie admission.
Why it was a movie and if you go to the movies expecting something to be 100% true you deserve to lose that 11 bucks. Maybe you should have to pay twice
This reminds me of the traitorous accusations against John Kerry. If the democrats had not let him be swiftboated, he would have been president. Now, they are looking the other way as Bernie tries to remind democrats who they pretend to be.
This includes a copy of his DD214. Why don’t you guys check and double check your sources?
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=65995
And by the way, citing Bateman as some kind of “expert” doesn’t add to your credibility.
This is sad. You’re stomping on the grave of an American hero.
He was already a proven liar before this article came out. Jessie Ventura sued Chris Kyle and won 1.8 million from his estate as Chris Kyle died before the case came to court.
Chris Kyle seemed to have a habit of exaggerating his stories in favor of himself. American hero? Yes. Proven liar? Yes. It’s possible to be both at the same time.
American Liar you mean? This guys story was so easy to spot as bullshit. More DOD bullshit to distract us from the war.
Did you not comprehend the article? It states that his DD214 is inaccurate. That it’s generated at the local level when the service member separates and that it doesn’t reflect what is in his microfiche, which is the official documentation.
Uh Oh. Looks like the Lying Left lies yet again. But ANYTHING to attack a dead American hero, right you cowardly, butchering Marxist bastards?
Most people here label them self’s as liberal but thats code for communist. My personal experience the military screws up paperwork all the time, my dd214 is missing items but I dont care much because I know what I accomplished.
Yes, an American hero who lost a defamation lawsuit to ex-Governor Jesse Venture.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jesse-ventura-no-regrets-over-suing-widow-of-navy-seal-chris-kyle/
If I was in charge of such things, I would totally eliminate all medals. If that is one’s motivation for joining the military, it raises an immediate red flag for me. There are a myriad of reasons for joining the military. Me, I enlisted into Army Intelligence in 1964 as an alternative to facing a possibly unwanted MOS if drafted. I had no regrets having gone that route, as I had an interesting three years in Germany and Vietnam.
The whole medal thing becomes a joke. Most civilians don’t realize that there are two Bronze stars. One of my friends proudly displays his Bronze Star license plate, and folks falsely assume he was a combat hero. One of our officers lobbied for a Bronze Star in Vietnam. That was nothing unusual, as that was known as “getting your ticket punched” if he was to make the military his career.
In spy work, one is not normally awarded military medals, which was fine with me. I was given the normal ones for showing up, and I have no idea what happened to them over the years. The whole concept of military medals is all fucking bullshit to me. The more I learned about Kyle, the less respect I had for him.
I don’t believe medals are any kind of motivation. To the contrary, many veterans I’ve asked about medals they were awarded were reluctant to discuss them and while proud to wear them were quite modest.
For some, medals are not only motivators, but necessary, e.g., officers who must accumulate them for career advancement.
You obviously have never been in the military or were a POS while in.
Typical response from the Jingoistic, Xenophobic motherfuckers on here. You can’t do better than that, John Wayne? My Army buddies whom I still converse with would laugh in your face.
Actually, subbob is accurate. I watched year after year as commands feverishly typed up bogus awards and faxed them into the CPO/SCPO/MCPO selection boards in an attempt to give their Golden Children a last minute boost.
It rarely worked, but it was always interesting to watch.
Lauren: Thank you for your input and service. Ironically, the officer I referred to who was lobbying for a Bronze Star committed an egregious breach of security while a member of our covert intelligence unit.. He got his military ID out of a safe in order to pull rank on an E-8 who he was arguing with. You can’t make this shit up.
Weak, trite reporting; expected product from a discipline devoid of principle. Followed by comments uttered from shameless ilk; the sort who’ll only step forward to display bravery from behind the safety of a keyboard.
Simo Hayha, a Finnish soldier in WWII, killed 542 people with his sniper rifle and another 163 people with a sub-machinegun. Whether one believes Kyle was a hero or not, here are some war heroes who everyone can agree on.
http://www.cracked.com/article_21307_the-94-most-badass-soldiers-who-ever-lived_p10.html
I always thought American Sniper would have made an excellent black comedy. Glory boy and pathological liar goes to a war sold completely on lies,kills a bunch of people, negotiates book and movie while on tour, comes back a hero and gets killed by America’s crazy gun culture. (because of course there’s no better cure for mental illness than working it out at the old shooting range) Only Clint Eastwood couldn’t see the irony in that.
Nailed on all counts. Well done.
Good point – I thought that what I did in Afghanistan would stay in Afghanistan. Now you got guys making profit from this. Real talk –
#1 Lie: Kyle claimed he beat-up Jesse Ventura in a bar for making disparaging remarks about NAVY SEALS and the war in Iraq.
#2 Lie: Shot dozens of looters while he was on top of the New Orleans Superdome after Hurricane Katrina.
#3 Lie: Shot 2 men who tried to carjack him in TX.
#4 Lie: Found WMD’s in Iraq
#5 Lie: Donated 100% of Book Profits
As a vet, dude died the way that he lived sadly. I appreciate his service, but he has very little valor IMO.
Plus that movie was just corny as hell. Eastwood tried to make him into Sgt York. The real Chris Kyle loved war, he didn’t care about the politics.
Comment of the year. Right on the money and so dead-on with the Eastwood take.
The ‘bin laden raid’ never happened.
dumbtroll dumbtrolls dumbtrollingly
The linked DD-214 clearly states that Kyle was awarded 2 Silver Stars and 5 Bronze Stars (section 18). Yet this rag is slandering Kyle anyway. First of all, a DD-214 is THE official document regarding a soldier’s career. How could you misread such a clear section; or is it just another attempt to make him look dishonest? Clearly you are the dishonest ones; those facts are in print in your own article. The fact that your baseless FOIA request allegedly showed less medals means either you, the clearly biased “journalists” lied, or whoever replied to you didn’t pull Mr. Kyle’s entire file. Leave the late American Hero alone and stop trying to slander his name!
My comments are about the title of the article and not about Chris Kyle. The contents of the article did state that there was a discrepancy between the two documents – which you could say is fair minded journalism. But the title of the article states that “American Sniper, Chris Kylde distorted his military record, documents show,” when in fact the content of the article says that there are 2 documents and one supports it and one doesn’t. This just doesn’t seem like good journalism to me. The Intercept usually does a much better job than this. The title should have been something to the effect of “Discrepancies exist between documents that support and refute Chris Kyle’s military record”. That title would not make for good click-bait, but it would more accurately reflect the contents of the article.
Separation documents often fail to correctly list awards. My 214 and official file never correctly reflected awards. Big deal. That’s the system. Who cares. I didn’t. Kyle was in harm’s way and was a respected combat vet. He gets big time credit for that. There are many self promoters who were not in harms way. Senator Lindsey Graham, for example, made full Colonel with a weak spotty reserve record of service. I won’t give him big time credit for his “military record”.
If you didn’t take the time and effort to ensure your DD Form 214 accurately represented your service, then that is your bad.
There is always the DD Form 215 to correct an inaccurate DD 214.
And even if the recognition/award was based on a classified mission, the citation would /still/ be in the member’s service record, properly redacted.
Negative on the flyby, Lauren. You are not cleared to say what would or could be mentioned from classified missions. Nothing is redacted on a service members short form. It is a public record.
What do you think would happen if a service member, retired or not, filed a DD-215 referencing a classified mission on a public form??
It was not my bad because I did not care about the medals. I was too busy practicing military law on active duty for 11 years and civilian law after for 40 plus years. I retired from the Reserves with 24 years service because I did the work and did not worry about the medals. My 214 reflected my time in service , my rank, my education, my assignments , and my discharge. That was all I needed. I will continue to enjoy the great memories and enjoy retirement . I will let others worry about their medals. Thanks for the comment.
“AMERICAN SNIPER CHRIS KYLE DISTORTED HIS MILITARY RECORD, DOCUMENTS SHOW.” Duhhh! We knew this already. The only people who think Kyle is a “hero” are ignorant flag-wavers and his wife.
Why bother with this trivia? There’s nothing heroic about participating in brutal and unnecessary wars of aggression; embellished record or not; “just following orders” or not.
As for the cowardly psychopath who is the subject of this piece, the only badge he deserved to wear was one of shame — for being proud of killing from a distance.
What about the “cowardly psychopaths” who live in the country that supports unnecessary wars? What about all the teenagers who were drafted?
What you are saying may be true, but is a lot more complicated than you contend. Don’t you think people all over the world are saying the same things about you?
You are blaming soldiers when you should be blaming politicians.
Everyone who has a choice has responsibility for their actions. We established that at Nuremberg.
“What you are saying may be true, but is a lot more complicated than you contend. ”
You don’t have the slightest idea what my knowledge of the complexity of these matters might be. And the fact that studying, analyzing and reflecting upon them has been a central concern for me for more than fifty years means that my knowledge is very likely at least as deep and extensive as yours.
“Don’t you think people all over the world are saying the same things about you?”
If they are, they are badly misguided. I have always acted on my beliefs, and accepted the consequences, including imprisonment, solitary confinement and exclusion, for life, from fairly larges segments of our culture and society.
Now, go fuck off.
How dare you question innocent youth. Toddlers from 18-24 are far too young to know right from wrong. The young German men who served in the SS and other elite units should be seen as courageous warriors like Chris Kyle, not denigrated by weak, faceless, journalists. That they killed innocents, whether in occupied Jewish neighborhoods, Fallujah, or serving on the battlefield of Auschwitz – they are all too be commended for their patriotism and heroism!
Chris Kyle was a true hero and demonstrated that numerous times throughout his military career. His actions in Iraq go far beyond any sort of medal and what he did as a solider is nothing short of amazing. Chris Kyle was a Navy SEAL, that was his profession. He was sent to Iraq to disrupt enemy activity and he excelled at it. I believe there is a general understanding that Kyle served his country with the utmost honor and valor. So I do not understand the point of this article. Is it to take away from what he did? To make Chris look like a bad person? Can’t Chris just be a hero and not have to deal with people like you that have to find an issue with everything? What he did as a SEAL for America trumps this BS medal counting situation that you felt (for whatever reason) to bring up. That guy went through hell and survived. He returned to the states and helped veterans struggling with PTSD, despite his own issues with the disease. In the most tragic of endings, Chris was killed by a fellow veteran while trying to help him. But thanks for your extremely helpful medal counting, I am so much more informed but Chris Kyle is still an unbelievable person and military legend.
He was a violent guy who enjoyed killing people. He dehumanised the Iraqis he was killing. No hero to me.
Thanks Donald. My thoughts exactly. The man did his job and he did it better than anyone else. Let that be enough.
If he lied about the medal and he lied about New Orleans and he lied about Jesse Ventura , what else did he lie about, body counts perhaps? Sounds like your hero is a compulsive liar.
Kyle is more akin to a terrorist than a hero. Serving an imperialist invasive Army into an area of the world they had no business being. Racking up kills as sniper against people trying to defend their homeland is no act of a hero.
pesky details. our concern should be the parents and children of our 5000 dead children. they died for a war based on lies and fear. they died for nothing. well the war did make the fratboy feel more manly and draft dodger Cheney became wealthier through Halliburton. mission accomplished
Our concerns should also be for the tens of thousands,(if not 100s of thousands) of Iraqis slaughtered in this trumped up and phony war which goes on today thanks to Bush and company which includes Obama.
pesky details. our concern should be the parents and children of our 5000 dead children. they died for a war based on lies and fear. they died for nothing. well the war did make the fratboy feel more manly and draft dodger Cheney became wealthier through Halliburton. mission accomplished
There’s an article that no one needed. A criticism of a military veteran who is now dead. Meanwhile, god forbid Hillary Clinton gets a slap on the wrist for her email debacle, on HuffPost.
Now there’s a leap!
That’s called a nonsequitor.
All the medals in the world won’t change the fact that the Afghanistan and Iraq military operations were some of the most idiotic, ill-conceived and poorly executed missions ever seen.
Back in 2001 post 9/11, the whole world agreed that the U.S. was justified in invading Afghanistan and removing the Taliban from power as they had sheltered and aided Osama bin Laden (although the Saudi government was allowed to get away with providing most of the financing for the 9/11 plot, curiously enough). However, that operation was a short-term and long-term failure – the U.S. used the CIA, special forces and local warlords to chase the Taliban and Osama bin Laden into hiding in Pakistan. If they’d blocked the passage into Pakistan with a larger military force, bin Laden would have been captured then and there.
Almost immediately afterwards, by 2002, all U.S. military forces were shifting to the Iraq invasion plan. That plan would have made some kind of sense in Afghanistan, but there was zero justification for going into Iraq; Saddam had no links to 9/11 and all his nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs (which were aided by U.S. and British support in the 1980s) had been dismantled in the 1990s, as numerous sources attested. But those lies were successfully passed off, with the NYTimes and similar outlets playing key propaganda wars.
Within a few months of the Iraq invasion and occupation, it was obvious that there were no WMDs and that the agenda of Bush and Cheney was to establish a puppet government that would hand control of Iraqi oil fields over to Exxon, Chevron, BP and Shell – an agenda already seen in the documents of the Cheney Energy Task Force of March 2001, and which had been on the neocon wish list since the 1990s. This is what led to the Iraq insurgency and uprising, and the neocon team responded to that by bringing the Gitmo/CIA black site torture program to Iraq in an effort to terrify the population into submission – which didn’t work – and you also had Keith Alexander of the NSA bringing mass surveillance to Iraq, the spy-on-everyone approach.
The U.S. troop body count started shooting up at this point, and climbed month after month, year after year, to a total of around 4,400 killed and 32,000 wounded in Iraq by 2012, many critically – all so some oil corporations could gain more access to oil, while the neocons ran their associated schemes. What was it for other than that? It was a debacle, an illegal war of aggression for economic purposes, the equivalent of Hitler’s invasion of Poland based on his claim that he was “defending Germany.” There’s nothing to be proud of there, no matter how you spin it.
At the same time, due to the absolute neglect of the situation in Afghanistan, the Taliban were able to re-establish control all across the country. One of the more well-known results of that was the shooting down of a Navy Seal Chinook helicopter in August 2011 that killed 38 people, including many Navy Seals, in another complete waste of human life:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world/asia/07afghanistan.html
If all the military effort had been focused on Afghanistan from 2001 onwards, and Iraq had been ignored, none of this would have happened. You can’t blame the military for this disaster, either, as they had to follow orders delivered by the Idiot-in-Chief, GW Bush and his sleazy power-mad neocon advisors, i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice etc.
At the end of this, what do we have to show for it? Over $1 trillion in debt, many thousands of injured and mentally ill ex-soldiers, a global reputation for war crimes and ugly torture, Iraq overrun by Islamic Wahhabi terrorists, the Taliban controlling much of Afghanistan, drone strikes or not – this military debacle will go down in the history books as an example of how not to run a military operation – and that’s the neocon / Bush-Cheney legacy as well (and notice that team is now backing Hillary Clinton?).
As far as the Seal team member in question, he like others used his service record as a means to cash in when back home – not unusual, but the whole ‘take mentally ill soldiers out to the shooting range for therapy’ notion that he supported (and which got him killed) is about the worst imaginable way of dealing with PTSD and mental illness one could come up with (as the Sandy Hook school massacre also demonstrated). Anything would be better – a cocktail of MDMA, psilocybin and cannabis would probably be a better idea than a loaded gun, don’t you think?
All in all, this has been one of the most epic military FUBAR disasters in recent history, and everyone involved with its planning should be hanging their heads in shame – but that’s right, neocons are shameless criminals who’d do it all again if they could – they got rich off those ‘reconstruction contracts’ in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they don’t care how many kids get killed as long as they get to feed at the trough.
That made me cry it was so good.
I can’t help but wonder how many nascent opportunities to improve the absolutely abysmal quality of absolutely vital “Human Intelligence” in Iraq Kyle just blew away in order to aggrandize his legendary status as a sniper. We’ll never know and almost no one will ask that question, because that movie won’t be made, despite the very real possibility that hundreds-to-thousands of American soldiers, and innocent Iraqis, died because of the lack of that quintessentially necessary, but exquisitely vulnerable, type of informant.
Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.
Hear hear!
Chris Kyle IS A FRAUD. He lied about the Jesse Ventura incident. He lied about being hired by the government to shoot looters during Katrina. This man had delusions of grandeur. And Hollywood bit.
America’s Hero
Kyle described killing as “fun”, something he “loved”; believed that everyone he shot was a “bad guy”. “I hate the damn savages,” he wrote. “I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the Iraqis.”
Shame on you. He WAS a hero, he is dead now, whatever bragging he may have done is in the past and has no bearing on the actual quality of his service. This would be an internal navy matter if it mattered at all. You are crapping on the grave of an American hero so that you can nitpick and degrade him?
He received a silver star and bronze stars plus many commendations..that makes him a hero to me, and the only way he could have changed that would be rape, murder, or molestation of a child…of which he did none.
And Republicans distorted John Kerry’s military record and medals… from over 30 years ago.. can’t have it both ways.
I’m sure that when Germany invaded Poland, there were many brave German soldiers who risked their lives in combat, fought hard to keep their fellow soldiers from being killed, and were awarded many medals as a result of their actions. Sure, they were heros too.
That doesn’t change the fact that Hitler’s war of aggression (based, like Bush’s war of aggression, on the claim of ‘pre-emptive self-defense’) was a war crime and resulted in a epic disaster that eventually bankrupted the German nation, does it? Indeed, there is no closer analogy for the Iraq invasion and occupation by Bush than the invasion and occupation of Poland by Hitler.
Don’t take my word for it, look back to the words of the German justice minister, who probably knew what she was talking about:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1407818/American-fury-as-German-justice-minister-compares-Bush-to-Hitler.html
“The White House last night lambasted Herta Däubler-Gmelin, the German justice minister, for describing President Bush’s Iraq policy as comparable to the methods of Adolf Hitler.”
No, I don’t blame German soldiers for the actions of Hitler, Himmler, Goering and Goebbels, anymore than I blame American soldiers for the actions of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove – but in both cases, the result was epic disaster. If anyone deserves blame (outside of the White House circle), it’s all the corporate media outlets (like FOX and the NYTimes) and Congressmembers (like Hillary Clinton) who went along with or even actively supported the neocon agenda in Iraq.
You people should be ashamed of yourself, based on his DD-214, he didn’t lie about his medals…he actually understated them. Instead of crapping on the grave of a dead man, put the blame where it belongs…on a DoD bureaucracy that hasn’t been able to find their butts with both hands for decades.
“understated” about awards received is a shameless lie. This man had no honor.
you are aware that many commendations and medals awarded to special forces members are not, and can not be publicized or even officially rewarded due to the nature of their mission? He may or may not have overstated or understated, they navy will never tell us if he received awards for actions that are top secret or higher clearance access.
Bull$#!+. If the mission is classified, then the award will be listed with the circumstances redacted. That’s one of the main ways that “stolen valor” scumbags are caught, by claiming “It was a seeecret mission!”. Don’t know why this idiot inflated his genuinely impressive award count. Most likely, he’d been put in for them but never approved, and he just assumed they eventually would be.
“. . .he actually understated them.”
You mean he actually, gleefully, killed even more people — an unknown number of them innocents — from concealment and at a distance, than his endless bragging revealed?
Sorry, Marine, but that ain’t no hero in my book.
How can you blame the DoD bureaucracy? They just follow the orders delivered by the White House, which isn’t supposed to wage war without the support of Congress; and politically it’s not possible to do that without a good deal of public support, and the public gets its information from the ‘free and independent press’ . . .
So if we want to place the blame, let’s do it correctly:
1) The White House and its neocon advisors, including George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, James Woolsey, George Tenet, Paul Wolfowitz – and we can include the British lapdogs like Tony Blair in this executive category.
2) Congressional leaders in both parties who voted for the war (the Senate vote was 77-23), including for example Democrats Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Diane Feinstein and Chuck Schumer, and Republicans Jim Inhofe, John McCain, Mike DeWine and Susan Collins.
3) The corporate media, from ‘liberal outlets’ like the NYTimes, MSNBC, CNN to ‘conservative outlets’ like the Wall Street Journal, FOX News, and right-wing talk radio.
Those are the main parties responsible for that disaster, aren’t they?
I’d add in the staff of the previous administration (Clinton, Albright, etc.), who also lied about Iraq WMD. Hussein Kamil told the UN and CNN (if not CIA and others) that the WMD were destroyed. Clinton told the world that Kamil’s statements proved that Iraq was a threat. He tried to use Kamil’s statements to get Mideast nations to continue sanctioning Iraq (See “The Clinton Tapes”.) He also bombed Iraq right around the time that he was facing pressure over impeachment. Even after David Kay told the world that Iraq’s WMD did not likely exist, Clinton continued to not only defend his war on Iraq, but told Time Magazine, “I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq.”
No no no! Super Kill Guy Kyle didn’t mean he had two silver stars; he meant he had two penises! Deadly dude!
Snipers are assassins, not heroes.
It makes one wonder how much of the book is outright lies too.
Of course, he lied. He’s a Republican.
There is no need to piss on his grave. As disappointing as it is that many of us (including me) got sucked into his story, wanting to believe in someone with a high degree of valor, honor and bravery, there is no remedy now. All we can do is thank him for his service, then turn our backs and walk away
of course he did…we made a hero out of a guy who sat on roof-tops and shoots women,children and the elderly….this man is not a hero a real hero helps people…
EdHead spews bullshit:
That’s just fucking stupid. If there are three people on the planet disdainful of corporate culture, it is the founders of The Intercept. After graduating law school, Glenn Greenwald left a Wall St. law firm after 18 months because his soul was sickened at being the lawyer for Goldman Sachs. (Had he stayed, he’d be longtime partner and worth many millions.)
Some of you need to get a grip. I don’t find this Kyle story especially worthwhile, but it’s just one. This site is literally teeming with important pieces:
That’s just in the last few days.
Go now, and be stupid no more.
I guess the Rubber Babby wasn’t the only thing that was a fake.
To the authors of this article…. Matthew and Sheelagh. Do I see your names on the list of people that voluntarily signed up to go overseas and fight and risk your life to protect those of us back here in this great country?? Until you do that….. shut up!!
Ah, it works the other way, you know. Those who sign up with the military give up many Constitutional rights, such as freedom of speech. The bargain they strike is that they agree to put their lives in the hands of the Commander-In-Chief, who in turn agrees not to waste their lives with reckless or foolish actions.
As we live in a democracy, it is also the role of the citizens – who maintain all their rights – to speak up on behalf of the soldiers when they see their lives being wasted on idiotic foreign military adventures like the Iraq Oil war. And, yes, a free and independent press plays a critical role in this – they’re not supposed to be cheerleaders for the idiots in the White House, as the NYTimes, CNN, FOX News and other rotten outlets were, correct?
Right On!
When, since WWII, has the US military engaged in any activity that protects the citizenry of the US? In fact, the vast majority of the military campaigns in recent years (including the ones that this mass murderer and proven liar was involved with) have actually served to make us LESS safe. Daesh (aka ISIS) would not exist if not for the likes of this killer of children and his ilk decimating a country on behalf of oil and banking cartels.
How did the Iraq invasion protect Americans here in the U.S.? ? I’m baffled by your comment.
Don’t tell me you still support our invasion of Iraq? I consider support for pointless, damaging, wasteful and expensive foreign wars of aggression to be unpatriotic!
Why does Fox News make such a big deal about the SEALS? Thankfully no PR offensives from Delta Force and other military units. In the end it is just an exercise to make money.
I am kind of sickened that Hollywood overlords pushed a pro-war agenda with a film that the director created thinking he was showing the ugly side of war. Make a sociopath a hero. While this is being published now it was common knowledge when the movie came out that the guy the movie was about was a pathological racist spouse abuser. Hence a idol for FOX News target audience.
Chris Kyle was in no way the “deadliest sniper in military history”, not by a long shot. Kyle is credited with 160 kills. By contrast, Simo Häyhä of Finland is credited with 505 kills with a rifle with iron sights and 200+ kills with a submachine gun. Several Soviet snipers have in excess of 400 kills, as do several Germans from World War II. The claim that he is the deadliest sniper in military history isn’t simply untrue, it’s a willful distortion of the facts; somewhat ironic considering the subject matter.
Deadliest in AMERICAN history, unless you have knowledge of Americans with more kills.
I would bet with complete confidence there are Americans with more kills, just probably not snipers. The guys on the Enola Gay have a damn near unbeatable kill count for example. Some of the artilleryman of the civil war killed more than that in a single battle….some with only a couple shots of grapeshot when the enemy lines were concentrated enough.
Beyond that, the vast majority of kills by actual US snipers are not, and cannot, be reported.
Thanks for pointing this out. We made the change and issued a correction.
“In one high-profile controversy, two members of SEAL Team 6 engaged in a public dispute over who deserved credit for the fatal shots that killed Osama bin Laden”.
That really says everything that needs to be said about those American military “heroes”. Here are two of them squabbling over who gets the “honour” of shooting dead a naked, defenceless old man at point-blank range (within his house). Moreover, a naked defenceless old man whose kidney disease should have killed him several year – perhaps a fully ten years – before the alleged shooting.
Alice in Wonderland, anyone?
Deadliest in AMERICAN history, unless you have knowledge of Americans with more kills.
What would his motivation be for inflating his medal count?? The fact that he earned any Silver Stars is impressive. What would motivate him to claim 2 instead? Going further, why would he lie about something so easily verified or disproved? I think there’s more to this story than what is currently known. His DD-214 stated he had 2 and 5 as Chris claimed. How did that happen? Yes mistakes happen in military records, but doubling a Silver Star and Bronze Star count would be a pretty major mistake. A mistake I don’t see being made. This wasn’t a marksman award or training ribbon, we’re talking about two of the highest awards given. I’d bet Chris had reason to believe he earned those if they made it to his DD-214.
What I think is most likely is he was put in for the other awards. but they were never approved. Maybe he thought they were going to be “any day now”, maybe he knew they been turned down but though he deserved them anyway.
I remember this article from back in 84, shortly before I joined the 82nd Airborne. I had sergeants in my unit that had no idea what they got their awards for so I started looking into it. After that most of us adopted the habit of questioning any medal that didn’t come with a purple heart attached. My 1st SGT summed it up: “There’s a reason they’re called “decorations”. Too bad as some of them no doubt actually earned them. http://www.nytimes.com/1984/03/30/world/medals-outnumber-gi-s-in-grenada-assault.html
Given the lying, there is little doubt that Kyle was heading for a political career.
Of course another military “hero” ended that.
Note how the DoD reps all tried to minimize the lying. Very strange that he would deliberately exaggerate this medal count when he had won several unquestionably. That kind of lying is no mistake. Representative of a deeper, seriously bent psychology.
Of course he was a paid killer, so it is doubtful he had normal moral qualms about anything.
“Note how the DoD reps all tried to minimize the lying. Very strange that he would deliberately exaggerate this medal count when he had won several unquestionably. ”
No, not strange at all.
LTC US Army (Retired) and a Vietnam vet.
I must admit that—after holding out for almost two years—I finally watched American Sniper. I found it to be a compelling bit of movie-making, but I don’t think my reaction (revulsion mixed with pity) was what Eastwood intended. Like Pat Tillman before him, Kyle is a manufactured saint, and the skeletons in the closet of such cultural icons eventually tumble out.
Pat Tillman was murdered to keep him from spilling the beans about the Military being in Afghanistan to protect the Poppy crop for the CIA to sell the Heroin in the USA, ie Iran/Contra allover again…
Perhaps, but I was referencing his ambiguous character and the mythology.
Thank you Bob for pointing that out, also to run pipelines to the Caspian sea, as well as further encroachment on Russia against the Warsaw Act.
meanwhile 99.9% of us, drink our coffee and go about our day not having to worry about killing people. This story lacks integrity or insight into what soldiers face. This is borderline hero shaming, trying to punish those who excel with ridicule….so is the author saying Mr. Kyle wasn’t a badass? wasn’t a hero, didn’t deserve the recognition? How many medals have YOU earned for honor or putting your life at risk Mr. Cole?
James, I don’t think anyone doubts Kyle’s badassedness or courage, nor does anyone dispute that he deserves recognition for putting his life at risk for his country. However, as William Tecumseh Sherman opined, “War is Hell.” Kyle seemed to relish the fight, rather than seeing it as a necessary evil, to the point of exaggerating his role in in it. That is what made him rather disturbing.
Please. The amount of courage it takes to set up a 1/2 mile away, protected by an overwhelming superior force and snipe 3rd World peasants in their own country requires little bravery. You want courage? Look at what these natives are facing having to go up against US firepower.
Jason.. please leave this country and go live somewhere else
Actually Scott Ashley, why don’t you leave the country and live somewhere else.
The founders were clear that they disdained standing armies.
Mr Cole reported the truth and you don’t want the truth told. That’s not “shaming” that’s doing his job. As a veteran myself, I see plenty of stories about all the hardships soldiers face. Frankly, it’s gone overboard . You can’t handle this one embarrassing report that doesn’t worship the military?
thanks for clearing that up.
Lying can be comical when it isnt about anything important. But to Kyle i suppose there was someone else in the service who has some silver bronze and kill records and he wanted to best them – another story.
I dont have any stars and i dont have any kills. I too would like to be able to brag about that.
Every American military creep lies about service records. It’s part of the uniform.
Try this: Given that half the current American population pegs the scale at somewhere between functional illiteracy and minimal literacy, why is anyone surprised that blowhard America hasn’t won a single military encounter since 1946? ZIP for 35! Are they heroes when they’re only stupid?
Hamilton, Hancock, Lafayette, Franklin, the Adamses, Paine, Washington, and Jefferson were not illiterates.
Next question . . . and thanks for your service.
Recruiting Tool
America gives soldiers medals for everything. Besides the Silver Star and Bronze Stars he would probably have more medals than his uniform had room. It can be easy to lose track. And if he even had one Silver Star, that is very commendable.
Anyway, as the line in Beau Geste goes, “medals are like hemorrhoids, sooner or later every a-hole gets one.”
I was going to leave this comment, but then you already did. During my deployment every a-hole who showed up got a medal. Literally. If you were E-5/6 you got a Bronze Star, if you went outside the wire at all you could add a “v” device. E-7 up and Officers, ditto except it was a Silver Star. They meant literally nothing. It was an embarrasment.
You are absolutely correct and it is an embarrassment. My deployments were the same. I read the language on my award citations and I am like huh? I did all that?
You think he forgot how many Silver Stars he won?
Really?
Yes admin mistakes happen; I’ve seen it with DD214 mistakes. I’ve seen folks try to get them corrected… well you know how hard it is as reporters to FOIA the U.S. gov., try getting any other paper work issue corrected! To hell w/ it. The bureaucracies don’t want to know, or change anything, esp. something that reflects negatively.
At this point, no one should believe any military person has earned any award; or even been in the military. Consider it all continuous deception.
He also claimed to have sniped 30 looters from the roof of the New Orleans Superdome and killed two men in Cleburne, Texas trying to steal his truck. The Ft. Worth Star-Telegram looked into this and determined it was just more bullshit.
A few months ago, Kyle wasn’t listed on valor.defense.gov as a recipient of any Silver Stars, but that website doesn’t seem as informative as it was before.
I haven’t seen a photo of Kyle wearing a Silver Star or its badge. His Wikipedia entry used to have badges pinned to an empty sailor suit. That seemed odd. Where was the medal awarded? Even in the field don’t they usually have a presentation ceremony? I don’t think they just mail it to you.
I for one can’t stand the mythology that people build around people like Chris Kyle. He was a SEAL, and you don’t become a SEAL without being tough as nails so I commend him for his service but I can tell you from experience that, having served in an Infantry Platoon during some of the heaviest fighting in Iraq, I saw very little honor. I served with some extraordinary Soldiers but mostly what I saw were thugs, embellishment, and glory hunters. Everyone thinking they are a hero and believing all the hype about them. I have no doubt that Chris Kyle did some great things during his career but I guarandamntee you at least half of his “confirmed kills” were innocent civilians whom he “perceived” as a threat. I say this because well over half of the killings I saw in Iraq were innocent civilians whom Soldiers “perceived” as a threat. In reality they were bored and wanted to kill something. Jolly Green Giants with guns. No need to build a mythology around it either. There are real heroes in our military. Men and Women of extraordinary courage, honor and integrity. Chris Kyle was not one of them as Americans and we need to stop painting everyone who wears the uniform as a saint and above criticism. Part of wearing the uniform is holding yourself to a higher standard of accountability and accepting responsibility when you F&%k up. Sometimes mistakes are made in combat and innocent people die but those who join the military because they want to kill people while not being held accountable for their decisions in the taking of those lives need to be weeded out not protected.
My DD214 was not updated after my Honorable discharge. I received a Meritorious service medal about 30 days after my last day. This hero knows how many medals he has. The dd214 is not always accurate.
My DD214 also ignored my qualifying with the carbine as “marksman” therefore deserving a medal. At basic training I put my first ten shots into my neighbor’s target. My TI thought I should just do a reshoot to qualify. I challenged this and managed to qualify without those ten shots, (neighbor had twenty bulls after first ten shots). Later as a medic noncombatant, I didn’t have to qualify until shortly before I left the service and the upper echelon powers decided medics should qualify after all. The MP’s in charge of qualifying did not use standard targets, but half an 8 1/2 by 11 inch piece of paper with a circle drawn in pen on the middle of the paper saying if anybody put every shot in the circle they would be qualified marksman which I did, but apparently it was so much lip service because I have no such notification on my DD214.
I grew up in the military, my father joined the Army Air Corp, now Air Force, during WW2 and spent 25 years serving our country.
My father was not proud of his medals, much less embellish his record.
I didn’t even know that he was awarded a Bronze Star until after his death when we were preparing his obituary.
Itis pretty easy to know how many medals you have, you count the ribbons on your uniform or open the box and count them! Hell if you can keep up with 160 heads to kill and have, a few medals should be easy. Yes, admin mistakes happen, so go back and correct it– as if they had made a mistake on anything else, say dob, for example. Well it always looks better to have more medals than less, the military is competitive, and it is hard to do. Hell, suppose we could say here– wwjd?
“Itis pretty easy to know how many medals you have, you count the ribbons on your uniform or open the box and count them!”
Not always, I never received a single ribbon or medal from my multiple Vietnam tours. DD214 and other records however state otherwise.
LTC US Army (retired)
So a murderer, a war criminal, and a liar. No shock here.
Stopped reading here, to comment: “consider battlefield embellishments to be dishonorable.”
Well, um, a key component in battlefield victory is deception; it’s the Art of War. I’ve thought occasionally that perahps the “Honorable Discharge” should be renamed to something else if honor and lying or deception are not compatible. The U.S. gov. and even biz. now use the Art and justify it in that way; I believe it’s how they can help put themselves at ease. ‘We’re at war so we will lie about this or that or withhold this or that, etc’
To Wnt’s point: he may have embellished because the standard for getting these awards is diminishing. He prob felt like he really did nothing at all to earn them. Go and check out WWII CMH citations and read them and understand what it took (supposing those cite are truthful). Now go read the lone survivor’s citation; I tell you Murhpy should have been courtmartialed for a list of things if that account is true, rather than awarded the CMH.
Finally, I commented on another article re Morley Safer and repost here: there is a book called Noble Warrior by Jim Livingston, that book describes battlefield embellishments re numbers killed.
Bullshit. Most is bullshit. Alot of these guys in special forces are grown children of sorts. A bit of hyperbole but trying to make a point. They lie like kids on a playground.
having never been in the military my comment is based more upon reading! if i recall correctly, if battlefield recollections are considered accurate, during ww2 the RAF shot down 2-3 times the numbers of luftwaffe aircraft sent over the channel, that many of our turret gunner on our bombers were “aces”—when, in fact, very few axis aircraft were shot down by turret gunners [which was shame since my late Father was a turret specialist on B-24s….arming, maintaining those Sperry, Martin, Bendix, Emerson turrets!]
Becoming a Navy Seal is no easy feat, nor is one to four tours in a wartime conflict zone plus along with his skills merits him, hero status. As mentioned unfortunately his embellishments only serve to diminish his accomplishments. I can not judge anyone who’s accomplish such feats in spite of his embellishments….RIP!
A coward plain and simple. The founding fathers would be no less than horrified and completely disgusted by what has become of the military and what passes for honor and decency in the prosecution of war, as if such a thing ever existed when killing other human beings. It bespeaks a truly dangerous level of ignorance, xenophobia and disconnect from reality that the US has become so enamored of killing and killers. We have a long, a very long way to go to become a great nation.
The guy served multiple tours in a war zone, served his country with honor,
was awarded numerous medals for valor. If the medal count in his book was wrong, so was the one in his official records, I don’t see any “story” worth wasting space on. As for the comment that he was a “coward” and somehow the modern US has been overwhelmed by a love of “killers” which didn’t exist before. Then why are there so many war memorials around the country honoring hero’s of the Revolution, Civil War, WWI, WWII, honored when this love of “killers” is such a new phenomenon. The truth is those who call this man a coward are cowardly liars who haven’t the nerve to risk getting punched out by talking to someone’s face, let alone risk their lives serving the nation. Nothing more cowardly than hiding behind your computer while calling those who lay their lives on the line cowards.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Your problem is you don’t think, you only post
Having been in special operations for 20 of my 31 years of service nothing stinks like a service member lies about his awards. I had to be an investigating officer for at least 2 service members who lied about their awards and one was an officer and one was a non commissioned officer and both were dishonorably discharged. What I discovered through those investigations is that if they lied about their awards there was probably more lies that had not been discovered yet.
This article needs a correction. The DD214 is a military ID card, not a list of military decorations.
You’re thinking of the DD2. _That’s_ the ID card, the DD214 is the “Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty”, which does contain a list of awards.
Chris Kyle was a serial liar? Who knew?
Keep going, Intercept, you’re gonna nail this dead guy if it’s the last thing you do. That will show him.
Nice to know that you all have nothing better to do than to rip on a deceased veteran who served this country with honor and distinction. You all should receive metals for the courage it takes to sit behind a keyboard and type this hard hitting journalistic masterpiece.
I don’t claim to understand military or honor in general, but what’s the point of exaggerating one-and-three to two-and-five? He obviously was in the thick of it either way – what’s the upside? Because of this DD form and the overall lack of motive, I am tempted to suppose that he won the extra medals in some secret operation that officially did not occur. Is that a possible explanation?
Oh, yes…little details. Like it was Saudis, not Saddam, that were responsible for 9/11.
The Iraq War killed more Americans than were killed on 9/11…details.
If you check out the New Yorker profile of Kyle from a few years back, a portrait of a compulsive liar emerges. I wouldn’t overthink it,
if anything you are underthinking it anyway — if it’s a secret operation, and it officially did not occur, then they don’t give medals for it, right? duh??
No, it is not a possible explanation. There have been plenty of awards for secret missions, the citations being vaguely worded to preserve secrecy.
The explanation is simple: ego. One does not get through training for special forces with a small one.
My husband retired as a Sergeant Major with the Green Berets recently. He served 28 years. Your medal count is your medal count no matter the secrecy of your mission. And you know exactly which ribbons (medals) need to be on your uniform. No excuse for Kyles behavior!!
Nope, if a mission is secret then the award will be listed but with all the details redacted. Most likely, he was counting awards his command recommended him for, but that were never approved. Maybe he honestly thought they would be, maybe knew they’d been rejected and he resentfully thought he deserved them anyway.
The Hollywoodization of the Amercian military, as fast-buck capitalism is wont to do, will be to its weakening.
The SEAL who wrote “Lone Survivor” was also recently shown to have massively exaggerated his claims, including multiplying the number Taliban engaged by 10, and lying about how he survived and how he was rescued. Kyle doubled his medal total and invented a story about punching Jesse Ventura. The culture of hero worship and valorizing the military is part and parcel of the Military Industrial Complex which now gets .54 cents of every federal dollar spent. To keep the yokels and the hillbillies happy about having crumbling bridges and roads, poisoned water, 40 students-per-teacher in their schools, and police forces being turned into military units, they have to be fed a steady diet of macho heroes and country music patriotic songs. Then they vote for Trump to “Make America great again” by spending even more money on military junk and eternal wars 9,000 miles from home.
That is the most spot on correct characterization of our military and Trump supporters I have ever seen. I do wish I had put it so perfectly.
It’s not. To be fair to Trump, he wants us to PULL BACK from some of our conflicts (like Korea and Cold War II). He does want to keep going after IS, but he wants to fight against them, not with them (To paraphrase Churchill, and to note our strategy of attacking IS while supplying their FSA allies with arms.) He also wants our military spending to be focused on defending us, rather than defending anyone else. (That alone could free up a hundred billion or so.)
Trump would be a disaster in many ways, but on a (very) few things, he’s spot on.
Thanks for ruining another hero! /s/
LOWLIFERS are desperately trying to drag down someone into their DIRT but they can never tarnish the HERO. He did everything that was asked from him to defend and to be THERE for all of us.. the scum is jealous scum which can only provide part of themselves by “melting” on the paper and NOT FLUSHING after it.
That is as “radical” as it can get.. from the SCUM. The low lifer who was trying desperately to destroy a Kyle’s wife and CHILDREN and their home is a POSTER BOY of that scum. There must be some backbone in America to address that travesty of “justice”. In the old ancient Hebrew JUSTICE.. the CONTEXT played a major role and one critical component was that if you accuse someone and you false accuser just working on the person down fall YOU will be responsible for exactly the same JUDGEMENT you wanted on your fellow. Let say you want hem to be killed for some major transgression and if you were found to be a false witness you are the one who will actually receive that punishment.
It is a really shame on all of us what his widow has to go trough as well his kids he nor they DESERVE none of it but the moral mats that are living of it.
The soldiers of valor to be most respected and honored are the likes of WWII veterans that did not make it back alive to write profit generating books taking credit for their service.
Then many of us also respect and honor the soldiers of valor that did make it home in whole or in part from the likes of WWII that felt they fought for an end to wars, but whose silence regarding their war activates actually shouted out a message to those that could not elicit a response from them.
It was a silent message indicating they felt something is wrong with war, and that they did not want to be used to profit from it, be glorified from it, or have their children and grandchildren caught up in what they knew could be service to the war and fear mongering greed, profit and power driven forces of evil.
There was an all-out right wing talk radio blitz to make the masses feel it was their patriotic duty to come out and see this movie as it worked in nicely with their repeated call to blow up 25% of the world’s Muslims.
My dad served in the Pacific theater from 1942 – 45, was awarded a Bronze Star, and never talked about it. Growing up, I knew lots of men who received the Bronze or Silver Star, the Distinguished Service- or Distinguished Flying Cross, and or Purple Hearts. To a man, they never bragged about it. Most of them were mainly grateful to have survived, and wanted most of all to forget the horrible experience.
Things have certainly changed in America.
Very well said!
SHhhhh….. don’t want to piss off the Neo Cons …. they will go into an absolute hissy fit when their hero’s are found to be less heroic than created .
Yeah – what a “hero”. He hid in the bushes and on roof tops to shoot unsuspecting people in the back. How brave.
It’s frustrating that people like the SEALS obviously show great courage in the face of immediate physical danger, but are so timid about speaking out if it might bring them social disapproval. Still anonymous, years later? After the movie has come and gone?
Mr. Cole and Ms. McNeill.. you suck ass… talk about disrespecting those that protect you. Fine the record keeping is unclear, but who cares. By all accounts Chris Kyle served his country and did his job. Directly saved many of his fellow servicemen and women’s lives and indirectly saved many US civilian lives. 1 vs 2 medals, 3 vs 5 vs 6… haha nice work?! someone actually paid you to do write this?
Yea, imaginarly punching out Ventura tells you all you need to know about Kyle..another American Hillbilly hero exposed..
Had Jesse’s law suit been tried in Texas, Jesse would have lost. I still do not believe Jesse who may be an even bigger jerk.
It is stolen valor.
Kyle and other “patriots” who went to the war of lies in Iraq don’t protect their country at all. They create more hatred in the world toward the USA…and so do you.
So, protecting Kyle’s medal count is irrelevant yet Kerry’s medal count is highly suspect?
Seals are an awesome group (several week exposure to their training) but they are human. Extra medals may have been due to “secret missions”, just as Kerry did secret missions escorting secret people into/exit from Cambodia (Yes, Virginia, the Swift group did that, contrary to what the Republican “Kerry co-workers” wrongly asserted) – close personal friend used to Birddog escort for those same secret missions same as he flew BUFFs dropping bombs on Cambodia while listening to Nixon asserting that the US was never in Cambodia.
Protected us from what?
“But he’s only got the three Bronze and one Silver Star.”
Only, awards for valor speak for themselves. It is good to correct the record in fairness to all men and woman of valor. However since Chris is not here to explain and no one had an official count until more closely examined and confirmed, DD214 did not agree with official record. He did stretch the truth but he did not invent valor where none existed.
“Two members of the SEAL community said that while Kyle’s actions under fire were commendable, he tarnished his accomplishments through misrepresentation.”
As a former SF soldier with no medal for valor. I will abide by his brothers judgment. There is no harsher court than your peers as their statements reflect and resound in this article.
Seems like you were ready to criticize the authors, and then realized that the SEAL brotherhood supports the main points.
Seems I look at the total picture and value peers over press. Valor can be tarnished but never lost.
“The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the Victoria Cross (VC) has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the scaffold.”
Fred, the military is one more closed society that protects abusers with silence. Nothing is honorable about that.
I have seen courage and dishonor by those in uniform. I extol the former and have opposed the later. Both honor and dishonor are in play here. The Command by covering up the truth made it far worse than the original dishonor.
I appreciate that you wrote this, Fred.
“He did stretch the truth but he did not invent valor where none existed.”
Ah, yes…another “but” argument. How do YOU know that he didn’t invent valor?
I cannot know I was not there and I am betting neither where you. I will take the word of those that served beside him. Have you a better source.
Kyle made himself into a piece of propaganda. The SEALS looked the other way for short term public relations purposes. One kind of courage is the willingness to die. But another kind is the willingness to endure social discomfort, break group silence. Apparently none of them have the other kind of courage. That’s a shame, because abusers take advantage of that kind of group culture, and count on it for their own protection.
Not just the military or its Special Forces have lost the courage of the soul to confront an inconvenient truth. Our Nation and people have turned their backs on the painful experience of confronting convenient lies and setting things right.
too true!
No mention of his killings of two muggers in Texas (a lie) or him sniping looters in New Orleans (another lie)? He was a bigger dirtbag than what youre portraying.
So you’re telling me a professional killer might have been ethically challenged? Shocking!
Especially impressive is the comment by a senior officer that while they were aware of Kyle’s public misrepresentations of his medal count, they chose to say and do nothing about it, because of the good publicity they were receiving based on his story. All unknown to the public at the time. That tells you something important about the military personnel involved – that they will support and promote as truth, an organized and widely known lie, if it generates positive PR for their division or the military as a whole.
If you consider that many of the multi-billion-dollar weapons systems we are currently paying for might have been pushed under the same rationales, that is, they were approved based on lies from military officers who would directly benefit from their implementation and operation and pushed for their acceptance on that basis.
I understand that Mcdonnell-Douglas has a contract to continue manufacturing and providing C-130 aircraft for the US every year, even if no branch of the military has requested them, or needs them. They just keep piling them up on military and civilian airfields, at a cost of hundreds of millions of tax dollars yearly, for no reason other than a bunch of Congress-people felt the company should have a guaranteed income at our expense. And this is probably just the one example that’s been made public.
Accepting lies from military personnel, however well-intentioned, is a really bad move. It sows disrespect, discontent and corruption among military, civilian and government personnel alike, and helps maintain our military as the huge, out-of-control money pit which it has become.
People should have paid attention to Ike. He knew what he was talking about when he warned us about the MIC. I doubt we’ve had a President before or since who was better positioned to understand the extent to which we could be milked and bled by corporations seeking not just money, but the power to guarantee themselves more money, through the trade in weapons.
McDonald Douglas doesn’t build C-130s. Lockheed Martin does. Try again
Excellent comment, John.
Yes…absolutely…what Vic said..
Speaking as a former member of the US military, everyone was encouraged to maintain their own copies of all personnel records; the military’s record keeping was notoriously bad. Even as far back in basic training my technical instructor told us no one is more concerned with your record than you.
When I retired I supplied personnel with copies of one training course and a performance report that were not in my official file. I can’t speak for Kyle, but I can tell you of the people I know who served some are more concerned with what the “official” record contains, while others are content with their own records, or what they remember.
Really seriously The Intercept with a deep well of journalistic talent and a descent budget can only come up with yet another Brian Williams story as it’s lead story? This is a page five story. How about a story about the Porsche family who has walked away with billions from a fraud and racketeering enterprise they own, VW, for example. Nah, better to write about one sleaze individual or yet another story about politicians being hypocritical, hardly a revelation.
Please Intercept do better stories use the talent you have to inform us about critical issues (methane) – not the sleazy behavior of some individual, as in this case hardly a shocking revelation.
If the intercept was really attempting to be innovative in its delivery of the news, it would set up an email account dedicated to reader suggestion for future stories. For instance:
1. Justice department running interference in the FBI investigation of Hillary’s email server.
2. Soros named in the Panama papers (as per Wikileaks)
3. Swedish court upholds arrest warrant for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange
4. Panama Papers reveal a regional security arrangement between the Saudi led GCC and the US (2012)
Nothing is stopping you from saying hello and suggesting this yourself, Karl. But your idea would probably result in an avalanche of bullshit no one would bother wading through after the 37th email saying “Tell the TRUTH about 9-11, we know it’s in the Snowden archive.”
The editorial staff of The Intercept should be fully aware of the stories Karl listed. It should not be necessary to send email begging that these important stories are covered, it should be quite evident.
The editorial staff work within a corporate culture established at The Intercept largely by its founders. That cvultural imperative and management attitudes are the important drivers of editorial policy.
Line reporters are assigned stories or they understand that stories about hypocritical politicians – no matter how many on the same subject will get published so why bother with anything else which might effect their job.
I have been quite disappointed with the editorial policies at the Intercept. It seems such a waist of great journalistic talent.
I post these critical remarks because I haven’t given up The Intercept is still young and is going to make mistakes it’s inevitable.
Rather than an email address why not a regular column where these concerns about editorial policy can be aired and the goofs exposed and ignored.
As Karl said, there are way too many important stories going unreported, at least extensively, that are passed over by the editorial staff of the Intercept, in favor of one article after another like this one, I just don’t understand why – and continue to have hope that The Intercept will grow and improve.
In keeping with the subject matter of this thread, you’ve earned a medal for Wednesday Morning Quarterbacking.
Start your own website so you can tell us all about these “stories” that need to be covered. It sounds more like you want the Intercept to tell you what you want to hear.
I post these comments on the stories I think they should be posted to. There is no column or anywhere one can discover what the editorial policies are that produce a result of essentially the same story of hypocritical politicians or celebrities.
Why should the editorial policies of the Intercept not be discussed? I am not here making ridiculous accusations or personal attacks. I want the coverage of the stories Karl mentioned above (and many more) to come under the scrutiny of the considerable journalistic talent at the Intercept not yet another story about the very well documented corruption and hypocrisy of Hillery Clinton ad nauseaum .
Perhaps an article by GG or a senior editor explaining why the Intercept does not cover these stories in favor of stories of petty corruption and personal ego stroking.
Something trying to analyze the source and agenda of the Panama Papers might be nice for example. There are just so so many stories out there that are many times more important that this one.
Does any Intercept reader out there who, knowing full well that the movie was little more than Pentagon propaganda, want desperately to know the subject was unworthy?
What I question are the editorial policies which produce this result. And, like I say there could very well be internal issues of a new and growing organization which explain it all, I don’t question the sincerity of the editorial board I would just like to see things improve and see more stories relevant to the larger issues we face. These stories are all about the symptoms and not about the disease.
The word among some in the SEAL community was that some of his targets were “questionable”
You’re not “discussing” “the editorial policies of The Intercept.” You’re just making lies up, because you know not damn thing of what you’re talking about.
So I take it then that you are a member of The Intercept editorial staff and that you sit in on these “meetings” and so that is how you know this ‘factual’ information that you’ve passed along to ordinary, not privy to the inner workings of The Intercept.
That was sarcasm. I found your entire comment post to be horse shit based on the know-nothing desire of someone to seem important to him or herself by to concern trolling to the point of laughably stupid.
<blockquote<Nothing is stopping you from saying hello and suggesting this yourself, Karl.
Hello. This story about navy sniper Chris Kyle is stinking cold as the man has been dead and buried for some time. But hey, if murderous creepy stories of decrepit cadavers tickles you fancy, then let’s speak about the Islamabad hoax perpetrated by Navy seal team six. Their fate was sealed the day that bin Laden’s alleged death was ceremoniously announced by the White House without so much as an ounce of real skepticism from the progressive left.
You can’t seriously be suggesting that nobody should do stories about dead people.
History = stories about dead people
Anyway. I was right about you, Karl: so you want the Intercept to “speak about the Islamabad hoax”. In other words, whether the Intercept actually have found anything new out about it, they should speak about it, just because you would like that.
Since you “know” all about this hoax already, what you want is a propaganda organ to repeat what you already “know.” What you don’t want is journalism. Too bad for you.