President Recep Tayyip Erdogan hates Twitter, but he survived a coup attempt in part by using social networks to urge his supporters to take to the streets.
Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, remains in power on Saturday after quelling an attempted coup by military officers who seized control of state television the night before, and then proceeded to shell the parliament in Ankara, deploy troops on major bridges in Istanbul, and put tanks on the streets of both cities.
BREAKING — Group attempting to stage a coup seizes state broadcaster TRT pic.twitter.com/1jtznd8p7K
— DAILY SABAH (@DailySabah) July 15, 2016
CCTV footage of TRT World being taken off air by armed soldiers during the #failedcoup attempthttps://t.co/vCpKjxn5DM
— TRT World (@trtworld) July 17, 2016
BREAKING Coup leaders claim that they take over the govt, air the statement on state TV. pic.twitter.com/tpK1UJwRXX
— CNN Türk ENG (@CNNTURK_ENG) July 15, 2016
#Turkish jets bombing it's own Parliament happening right now in #Turkey #Ankara. #MilitaryCoup pic.twitter.com/X4RVz89BYG
— Hamosh (@Hamosh84) July 16, 2016
Turkish soldiers block both bridges on the Bosphorus in Istanbul and jets flying low in Ankara. Reason not clear yet pic.twitter.com/tMG7KKYvGh
— Selin Girit (@selingirit) July 15, 2016
?STANBUL-BAYRAMPA?A ?UAN pic.twitter.com/AhjuOTA5Kl
— HZ. ENES (@Ayyinemikeder) July 15, 2016
While Erdogan has many critics, and has cracked down on dissent in the streets, in parliament, and on social networks, there was no evidence of popular support for the attempted coup — even from those who have protested against Erdogan’s ruling Justice and Development Party, known by the Turkish acronym AKP.
I protested erdo?an during gezi. I was tear gassed by his police. I think akp is trash. but I support them against a fascist military coup.
— elif fât?ma ????? (@eelifgorken) July 15, 2016
Opposition lawmakers, who sheltered in a bunker with members of the ruling party after the parliament was bombed during a debate, were quick to denounce the attempted coup.
Chaos in Turkish parliament as explosion heard. pic.twitter.com/Ty75Q9mG8U
— Gilgo (@agirecudi) July 16, 2016
TBMM s???na??nday?z; 10 dakika oldu bomba sesi yok... pic.twitter.com/mVb1HpSdEt
— Mehmet Bekaro?lu (@MBekaroglu) July 16, 2016
The united opposition of Turks to the coup against Erdogan and his ruling Islamist party stood in marked contrast to comments from some Americans expressing support for the attempt to force an elected leader from power.
Lt. Col. Peters on #Turkey: "If the coup succeeds, Islamists lose and we win." #OReillyFactor pic.twitter.com/H7LDPTnhKr
— Fox News (@FoxNews) July 16, 2016
After Brad Sherman, a Democratic congressman from California, suggested that a coup could bring about “real democracy,” Turkey’s ambassador to the United States, Serdar Kilic, replied: “You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting a coup attempt and expecting democracy out of it.”
Military takeover in Turkey will hopefully lead to real democracy - not Erdogan Authoritarianism
— Brad Sherman (@BradSherman) July 15, 2016
The public mood late on Friday was perhaps best summed up in a Snapchat video of tanks driving by an outdoor cafe on Bagdat Avenue in Istanbul, captioned with an emoji expressing alarm and the words, “ne oluyor,” or, “what is happening?”
Bagdat caddesi, Fenerbahce'nin önünden paletli tanklar geciyor. pic.twitter.com/x8GQqdL0x8
— Ahmet STARKG?L. (@yanmasadakigenc) July 15, 2016
The plotters failed, despite following a script that might have succeeded in the 20th century, in part because Erdogan was able to rally support for democratic rule using 21st century tools: video chat and social media.
After the officers claimed control of the country in a statement they forced a presenter to read on TRT, the state broadcaster, the country’s internet and phone networks remained out of their control. That allowed Erdogan to improvise an address to the nation in a FaceTime call to CNN Turk, a private broadcaster the military only managed to force off the air later in the night, as the coup unraveled. In his remarks, the president called on people to take to the streets.
BREAKING Turkish President Erdo?an blames #Gulenist network & calls on public to go to public squares and airports. pic.twitter.com/vmQlYLyv35
— CNN Türk ENG (@CNNTURK_ENG) July 15, 2016
Cumhurba?kan? Erdo?an CNN TÜRK'e aç?klama yapt?https://t.co/C0EYdmeAz6 https://t.co/IHVrhCBVEB
— CNN Türk (@cnnturk) July 15, 2016
Turkish president invites citizens to take to street in wake of military coup attempt pic.twitter.com/0epadOZvQY
— ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG) (@anadoluagency) July 15, 2016
Given that Erdogan’s government has shuttered privately owned television news channels that have been critical of him in the past year, he had reason to be thankful that CNN’s Turkish outlet was still on the air when he needed it.
The channel has not, however, been known as an enthusiastic supporter of Erdogan’s critics. When protesters took to the streets against his government in 2013, CNN Turk was widely mocked for broadcasting a documentary about penguins instead of live reports on the dramatic events unfolding live in Istanbul’s Taksim Square.
Medya Sansuru: CNN vs. CNNTurk | #occupygezi pic.twitter.com/PRSRAx1T07
— Pajovsky (@GurbetName) June 3, 2013
Minutes later, the president repeated his plea for protesters to defend democracy on his own Twitter feed.
Milletimizi demokrasimize ve milli iradeye sahip ç?kmak üzere meydanlara, havalimanlar?na davet ediyorum.
— Recep Tayyip Erdo?an (@RT_Erdogan) July 15, 2016
Of course, having an iPhone and access to the internet is not alone enough to foil a coup — if it were, Mohamed Morsi would still be Egypt’s president, since he posted a similar plea for support on the presidency’s YouTube channel as he was being deposed in 2013. In that case, however, the coup was welcomed by millions of anti-government protesters, and the military was united and ruthless enough to massacre dissenters who took to the streets.
As TRT’s English-language channel explained later in an account of the night’s events produced after the coup failed, Erdogan’s call for protesters to flood the nation’s squares and airports to resist the putsch was heeded by his supporters.
Resistance to the coup was also encouraged by vivid images on social networks of abuses by the military forces, including distressing video clips of a helicopter gunship firing at civilians and fighter jets swooping low over Istanbul.
Çekilen bir videoda, insanlar?n üzerine ate? aç?ld??? görülüyor. pic.twitter.com/d7LfagPsRc
— 140journos (@140journos) July 15, 2016
ATV yay?n?na yans?yan görüntülerde insanlar?n üzerine ate? aç?ld??? görülüyor. pic.twitter.com/0zMcNaHHV3
— 140journos (@140journos) July 16, 2016
Fighter jets fly low above our head in downtown Istanbul and apparently hit targets.
— Mustafa Akyol (@AkyolinEnglish) July 16, 2016
Woe onto the bandits in uniform that caused this.
There was also extremely graphic video of a tank running over protesters in Istanbul, leaving many crushed beyond recognition.
While some major television channels were barred from broadcasting, Turkish journalists managed to streamed live video of the anti-coup protests using Facebook and Periscope.
https://t.co/Rm73BlgQNd pic.twitter.com/uTHO83mkRH
— Alex Stamos (@alexstamos) July 15, 2016
ICYMI: @OzKaterji's Facebook Live video from Taksim Square: https://t.co/g3osauz8zs pic.twitter.com/eVmU4Nt8OJ
— Jonathan Groves (@grovesprof) July 16, 2016
sabah 4 ataturk havaalani onunde yakaladigimiz icinden 6 er 2 rutbeli 8 askerin linc edilerek cikarilmasi https://t.co/OvXKWzAo0m
— ahmet hasdemir (@HasdemirAhmet) July 16, 2016
As the coup faltered, images began to appear of civilians swarming tanks and soldiers surrendering or being arrested by police officers who remained loyal to the government.
A man lies in front of a Turkish army tank at Ataturk airport in Istanbul via @reuterspictures pic.twitter.com/HaecVOqMWJ
— Noah Barkin (@noahbarkin) July 15, 2016
Gaziantep now thousands take to the streets rejection military coup on Turkish government #Turkey pic.twitter.com/2JqBI0fOIB
— Rami Jarrah (@RamiJarrah) July 16, 2016
Earlier in Taksim. I talked to the shirtless man. He blamed this on Gulen and wants Erdogan as leader for 100 years pic.twitter.com/70v9MK7MTb
— Teymour (@Teymour_Ashkan) July 16, 2016
#Turkey crazy video showing civilians taking over a tank and coup soldier firing shot against them in #Istanbul pic.twitter.com/9OkBGNqod0
— Putintintin (@putintintin1) July 15, 2016
Video from @140journos shows a tank crushing a car in Turkey as people get out of the way pic.twitter.com/CzBXu3Tkez
— Brandon Wall (@Walldo) July 16, 2016
BA?CILAR KANAL D B?NASI ( ANLIK ) pic.twitter.com/DAy1T9fyYw
— mert (@esmerbirbey) July 16, 2016
Taksim'deki askerler de teslim olmu?. Çok uzun sürmez bu i?... Soldiers in Taksim surrendered to police
— hONoUR (@Jakoben1789) July 16, 2016
https://t.co/jZXKJ8rlLj …#Turkey
When soldiers did belatedly arrive at CNN Turk and force the channel off the air, the station’s journalists, and a digital editor at Hurriyet, a newspaper in the same building, managed to report on the raid using Facebook and Twitter.
Hürriyet ve CNN Türk binas?n? basan askerler 05.10 sular?nda gözalt?na al?nd? https://t.co/WY2YcUZROA pic.twitter.com/2XZfPHV71i
— Hurriyet.com.tr (@Hurriyet) July 16, 2016
Sorry for the poor pic quality but it's hard when you are mass-arrested during a coup attempt... pic.twitter.com/TwUC6Yqi71
— Emre KIZILKAYA (@ekizilkaya) July 16, 2016
A short time later, when the soldiers there were arrested, that too was captured on video and reported online.
The moment that rogue soldiers were arrested at the Cnn Turk/Kanal D/Hurriyet complex. https://t.co/3mzrb6I56a
— Emre KIZILKAYA (@ekizilkaya) July 16, 2016
cnn'de darbecilere önce polis, sonra siviller müdahale etti pic.twitter.com/fiw5jVRC9v
— ismail saymaz (@ismailsaymaz) July 16, 2016
Zeynep Tufekci, a Turkish sociologist who studies the interaction between technology and protest movements, pointed out that Turks are particularly good at finding ways to use the internet to communicate in times of crisis because they have a lot of practice.
Internet is not down. Turkey info flows is very very resistant to throttling. We're practiced. https://t.co/NNjEj2Xi3V
— Zeynep Tufekci (@zeynep) July 15, 2016
Restrictions on social networks in the country are common, and Erdogan himself blamed Twitter for popular resistance to his government’s crackdown on protests against the destruction of Gezi Park, a green space in the center of Istanbul, in 2013.
Turkish PM Erdo?an: "There is this curse called Twitter. It's all lies ... That thing called social media is the curse of society today."
— Zeynep Tufekci (@zeynep) June 2, 2013
The irony of Erdogan now relying on social networks to rally protesters to his side was not lost on close observers.
How ironic that it was social media and technology that came to Erdogan's rescue.
— Karl Sharro (@KarlreMarks) July 16, 2016
So now Erdogan needs protesters to save him. Fate is not without a sense of irony. #Turkey
— Daniel Ó C (@DanOCluanaigh) July 16, 2016
Looking back at the events of the past 24 hours, Bilge Ebiri, a Turkish-American film critic, expressed admiration for the courage of Erdogan’s political opponents, who resisted the coup despite the increasingly autocratic way he has attempted to centralize power.
They stand for democracy, even though they know it means the restoration of a President who will gut their constitution.
— Bilge Ebiri (@BilgeEbiri) July 16, 2016
A lot of people have commented that the Turkish coup-plotters were stupid for not taking out the head, Erdogan. But apparently they came close and the coup almost was successful, at least according to The Guardian:
Gavin Long, the cop-killer in Baton Rouge, was a mentally ill man who believed he was a “Targeted Individual,” and adhered to multiple other paranoid-crank ideas supported at myriad web sites. He’s not the first TI in the U.S. to go on a killing spree.
He also considered himself a “sovereign citizen” and was militantly anti-government, which dovetails well with the TI narrative.
Clearly this is a profound mental health issue, and an unprecedented challenge for mental health professionals — ill people have never before been able to network online and reinforce one another’s delusions. It’s past time to recognize this as a severe public health problem, one that is global. (TIs have had conventions in Germany and are active in Asia as well.)
Given the First Amendment here in the United States nothing can or should be doe about their web sites. But some response is indicated, I’m just not sure what.
@Mona
shorter Mona
I don’t care what you or Macroman think of me calling the new commenter Jessica “immoral and disgusting” for not recognizing the virulent racism driving brexit!!!!
Straight from the horse’s mouth; Mona does not care about other commenters. Her disrespect for others is at an all time high.
Anyone who cares about this person’s obsession with me, can go to the sub-thread here.
What’s with the abuse of this forum set up? You post something and are ejected from the forum and have to click your way back into it? Yes, There ‘is’ a forum. Thanks. But why have it set up like this? It’s not nice.
It sucks. We know. Everyone knows.
My theory is that Glenn doesn’t like us anymore and so he’s had the TI managers hire evil web techies to torment us. ;^)
There’s huge white spaces in between text here. What’s missing?
The coup in Saudi Arabia is becoming overdue. Historically, monarchies become unstable around the fourth generation. This monarchy is unlikely to last beyond Obama’s reign. Both Trump and Crooked are unlikely to keep it afloat. The low oil price and a resurgent Iran aren’t helping much. Turkeys are befriending Russia and getting soft towards Assad. We have secured all the Pak nukes. Very bad times, indeed. I am sure this coup has rattled Saudis more than anyone else.
lmao!! these bunch of cowboys started a revolution BEFORE killing the man in charge. I mean, how dumb can you get? From everything i have seen or read, http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/assassination-plot-against-hitler-fails, the TRIGGER is the death of the leader. That is what the CIA has always know since the overthrow of Iran.
This video depicts in 5 secs what happened in Turkey.
Off-topic but relevant to the exchanges by and about “targeted individuals, below. This is from a Guardian piece about the apparent shooter who killed three Baton Rouge cops and wounded three others, earlier today:
This is a serious mental health problem, and the second mass shooting that I know of by a mentally unstable person who believes he’s a “Targeted Individual” — and enduring so-called gangstalking. It’s important to make clear that because of the national security/NSA topics this site covers it attracts quite a few of these unfortunate souls in comments, but they do not represent anything like the majority’s beliefs.
In fact, over a year ago when they hit a critical mass in thread after thread many were banned. Some have returned, and I hope they are able to comprehend they are not wanted here.
And I also hope they they will please, please get some mental health help.
You are indeed right as always. Pat B, E D and AmericanGestapo were the brigade commanders that you are referring to, and they possibly pre-date the arrival of your assistant Salzmann.
There is one character here who feels she’s the “target” of my non-existent insults, when I am actually very sweet towards her. Maybe you can advise her also?
It was actually Kitt who was as distressed as anyone when the TI’s began overtaking comments. He’s a long-timer in Glenn’s space, but comments rarely any more.
My heart bleeds for poor Kitt that he should suffer so. First, life was cruel to him by afflicting him with an ailment that was controlling his behavior. Then he was apparently hounded about and out by intolerant friends who could not suffer his presence.
That is life. Ask any BLM fellow.
Kitt is a sane, reasonable and extremely decent man who was justifiably disturbed by a huge outbreak of crazy in comments. I shared that great unease.
And as recent events make abundantly clear, these psychotic people can be dangerous. Decent people should neither host nor encourage them in their delusions.
You are as deluded as those “people”. You spend your days, nights, months, years, behind a computer telling the world how good it is to be Greenwald’s lapdog. Unless you are getting paid for your worshipping services no reasonable individual would believe your behavior is sane.
Right, my being Glenn’s former law partner and friend, and thus active online on the same issues he is, is just like being a person who believes cabals are remotely torturing him and that people outside the Starbucks he’s at are “gangstalking” him.
Your powers of analogy and perception are stupendous. [eyes rolling]
You know, General, you really contribute very little to these threads on your best days, and you seldom miss an opportunity to be mean-spirited, apparently just for the hell of it.
You should really consider just fucking stopping this ugly behavior — especially when we are dealing with the problem (for us and for them) of seriously disturbed people who really do need help.
Here at TI, nobody pre-dates my arrival (although, a number of regulars were around long before I dropped in, a couple of virtual venues ago). I posted the first comment to the site.
If you think I’m new, it’s probably because I stopped participating for some time, frustrated by the degraded quality of the BTL content and the increasingly prevalent nastiness, craziness and straightforward stupidity.
Kitt isn’t the only regular who is much less seen around here, these days. There is quite a long list of “some of the best people” who seem to find the forum less attractive than they did previously.
Sadly true. A core of us still are in touch on Twitter and by email. But the vibrancy of Glenn’s comments began to ebb when he went to the Guardian, and has deteriorated further here.
In part that’s because there was no place to go for months after Glenn left the Graun and before he started here, and then this site was sporadic at best in the beginning. That, and the commenting software is fucking awful, which many simply will not contend with.
“That, and the commenting software is fucking awful, which many simply will not contend with.”
Yeah, but there’s one commenter in particular who labels others as “demented, deranged, immoral, a far-right, authoritarian, racist bigot“.
The same commenter claims “No I didn’t” even when presented with the text of her attacks. She routinely tells commenters to “fuck off” even when they leave a comment not directed to her. She tells the board to “not bother reading” a particular commenter because she’s determined them to be antisemitic, (there’s no place for that here) or to be mentally ill (as she mirrors their behavior).
-Mona- goes into great detail to debunk CS but waves off a valid critique of her comments with “it’s too long”.
When confronted repeatedly with a single instance, documented by more than one commenter, of her attacking a new commenter with the label of “immoral, disgusting”, (on fucking Brexit but still centered on her obsession with virulent racism!). we get crickets …
Mona is a distracting to comment as the wretched liar Omooex ever was.
Just looked at an older article and what pops right out …
@Mona to the General
“Infesting”? That is an interesting choice of a word. The Nazis referred to Jews as vermin, cockroaches, etc. much as Israelis describe Palestinians today.
-Mona- attempts repeatedly to dehumanize commenters on this site.
Perhaps that is why the discourse on this site is so hit and miss.
This individual is obsessed with me. I address his myriad inanities in this sub-thread here, but decline to support his spamming the board with his idée fixe by replying substantively in this one.
Link: sub-thread here.
“and you seldom miss an opportunity to be mean-spirited, apparently just for the hell of it.”
Well Doug, it seems only you and Mona have failed to realize the snark in the General.
Today he’s much more on message. He nails Mona on lamenting the TI Takeover when SHE and no one else engaged the gangstalked – like her endless engagement of CS.
The distraction on this site is Mona attacking anyone who inflames her sense of justice. She hurls invective and pejorative like no one else; not skillfully or measured, as Glenn might.
Mona is herself, not a Glenn doppelganger. She has a different style. She can be harsh and stubborn and sometimes (IMHO) over the top. But she doesn’t engage in nastiness for its own sake; she simply doesn’t suffer fools gladly and is rather unrestrained in letting them know.
Given the flood of fools and foolishness we deal with here, a flood that threatens to drown the informed, thoughtful, intelligent exchanges in batshit-craziness and demonic nastiness, harsh responses are often (again, IMHO) entirely appropriate.
Beyond that, Mona is one of the most intelligent, articulate and thoughtful participants we have, not to mention that she is one of the best-informed and most skilfully analytical.
There’s a long list of distractions here, but Mona is not one of them (except when she can’t help herself and goes 15 rounds with Craig). Her other major fault, of course, is that she sometimes argues strenuously with me, which is futile, as I’m am almost always right. ;^)
” But she doesn’t engage in nastiness for its own sake; ”
-Mona- attempts repeatedly to dehumanize commenters on this site.
-Mona- rails against the mentally ill (beating up on the defenseless is rather despicable).
-Mona- states she has to “suppress the urge to inflict intolerable pain upon” a commenter for being antisemitic, as defined by -Mona-, while simultaneously telling us of the danger from TI’s “infesting” this site …
and if the moderators would like to provide some feedback to her, that’d be great. She rejects, with vim and vigor, all suggestions to take a time-out, so who’s gonna do it …
READER ALERT: This person chronically makes claims to and about me that are false. This is one of many: “-Mona- states she has to ‘suppress the urge to inflict intolerable pain upon’ a commenter for being antisemitic, as defined by -Mona-,”
Now look, since you bring up mods, if you don’t stop spamming the board in thread after thread with this obsession where I am concerned, I will ask to have you banned. Keep it in a sub-thread, and it also doesn’t have to be in every thread in which I participate. YOU have become one of the distractions crapflooding this site with a huge volume of your obsessive rants, and I will seek to have that ended if you don’t stop. I suggest you consider that my requests are usually — tho not invariably — granted, because my standards and Glenn’s are so very similar, if not identical.
The coup was not a coup but a drama. Never mind a few hundred people dead.
Erdogun wants Feth Gulen back in Turkey before Crooked enters White House. That’s because Gulen has a tie-up with Crooked. And Erdogun know what that means – same fate as Gaddafi. So doesn’t matter if the drama costs the lives of some folks, at least he will save his skin if he gets Gulen back.
The whole thing was so amateurish that it certainly wasn’t the work of a well-trained army. My prediction is that, notwithstanding the rhetorics, the arrested army bosses will be released with another drama.
It’s appalling to see how many Americans can simply talk about “coup” actions as more or less desirable without any regard to the lives lost in such adventures.
Admit it. You really don’t care about other peoples’ lives lost. It’s just a game for you.
I don’t think this coup was desirable, but I’m quite certain that Erdogan has been and will continue to be responsible for the loss of many more lives.
Your comments make a great deal of sense only if they’re directed at the architects of U.S. foreign policy – they even admit it with all their talk of chessboards, don’t they?
That’s been true for decades – the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a game for Zbigniew Brzezinski and Jimmy Carter, and then it became a game for William Casey and Charlie Wilson. Bosnia was a game for Bill Clinton (convenient distraction from the Lewinsky scandal, too). Iraq 2003 was a game for GW Bush, Dick Cheney and the NYTimes, a highly profitable game. Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama’s regime change ploys in Libya and Syria were also games.
Playing games with people’s lives for the benefit of political agendas and Wall Street profit margins is what the American Empire is all about, isn’t it?
“Admit it. You really don’t care about other peoples’ lives lost. It’s just a game for you.”
And your apologist behavior (‘motive please!’) for the Cheney cabal that started the whole conflagration in the ME with our own coup on 911 demonstrates your concern for people’s lives lost …
Turkey is just another outpost of the American Empire; the instability only shows that the imperial overlords are losing control of their colonies. Consider:
1) The Armenian genocide? Obama like his predecessors refuses to call it genocide, because that would undermine the imperial alliance with Turkey. “Join the Empire, and your abuse of human rights will be ignored” – that’s the real message Obama is sending out.
2) The repression of the Kurdish population? Again, glossed over – but this shows just how fractured imperial policy has become, with Pentagon-backed Kurdish forces in eastern Syria fighting the ‘moderate’ CIA-backed Free Syrian Army forces in western Syria, who in turn are collaborating with Saudi/Qatari-backed Al Nusra/ISIS forces in southern Syria. An empire at war with itself, it seems.
3) The well-documented oil deals between ISIS and Bilal Erdogan? This was the original plan, c.2012, to have ISIS defeat Assad and then hand over control of Syria to the American Empire under Saudi-Qatari control. Oops, ISIS decided to globalize instead. Highly under-reported in the U.S., the covert plan to back ISIS, particularly among the pro-Hillary Wall Street media crowd:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/211624-2/211624/
4) Turkey membership in NATO and the EU? Basically, proof of the moral bankruptcy of the EU and the need to dissolve NATO in the post-Cold War era. Turkey has few press freedoms, denies the Armenian genocide, oppresses large segments of its population – i.e. it is very similar to other members of the American Empire in the region, such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Egypt.
Meet the Evil Empire, last of its kind on the planet. . . the sooner it crumbles into ashes, the better it will be for the whole world.
All true, but you left a couple of things out:
1. Turkey was an empire (the Ottoman Empire). That fact speaks for itself, there’s no such thing as a moral empire.
2. The societal issues raised by Midnight Express. There is something deeply wrong with the character of Turkish society (just as there is with U.S. society, but different problems).
Wow. Have you been holding this grudge since 1923?
The fact that you can hold up the Ottoman Empire as the prime example of evil without even saying why, or even recognizing its debt to the late Byzantines …
Well, at least you can probably find it on a map.
What a violent culture. So many Turkish men eager for a brawl, in that video of the soldiers’ arrest. No wonder Erdogan has still has supporters if this is the Turkish idea of a strong man.
I hope you’re not an American citizen pointing a finger at other country’s ‘culture of violence.’ That would be hypocritical in the extreme.
Guess what? Turkey is a highly divided country with an ongoing civil war. The army is no longer the unifying force it once was. What do you know about “cultures of violence”?
Oh yes! That’s getting missed. Success or no success, The coup doesn’t change the fact that here’s another poisoned people. Naziism is spreading like wildfire. Europe is seeing the far right ascend. Indonesia and India is there. The darkness is deepening. Nazi Israel is scary. Most Israeli citizens support their Nazi government. What do you do about that? It’s actually democratic. It’s not godly though.
See “The Rise Of Democratic Fascism” by John Pilger (http://bit.ly/29OVaBR). An excerpt follows:
“The responsibility of the rest of us is clear. It is to identify and expose the reckless lies of warmongers and never to collude with them. It is to re-awaken the great popular movements that brought a fragile civilization to modern imperial states. Most important, it is to prevent the conquest of ourselves: our minds, our humanity, our self respect.”
The ‘problem’ is, No one ‘has to’ care. It’s a free universe. And too many are choosing to not care. That’s why the darkness is spreading. I’m not saying that there’s no consequences to not caring. And I believe in God and that he will have to step in, as he has purposed to do. But in the meantime, We will all pay the negative consequences of those who embrace darkness.
You can’t pass a law telling people that they ‘have to’ care. It’s a free universe.
I just did and BTW, I think we should start by respecting ourselves first. Why did you post this comment anonymously?
RCL
… And so politely too?
Excellent question, RCL. Excellent.
Excellent question, RCL.
Mahalo (thank you)! I worked at the same facility from which Edward Snowden left for Hong Kong, but retired before he got there. Apparently I was “chosen” for special treatment some years ago. I have been experiencing severe intrusive electronic harassment for the past two years. That is why I choose to remain “Anonymous”.
Respectfully and politely, you are not anonymous to anyone who “chose” you, if you are indeed being subjected to intrusive electronic harassment.
What is your name?
Pretending to be anonymous buys me nothing and fools no one.
My name is located at the top of this photograph of an unsigned and undated letter from AAA’s “Underwriting Department”.
The suspicious context of the document is described below it.
I have no way of knowing if Gülen was really just a “friendly neighbor” or not and to the extent there are tensions within the military with Erdo?an, but, lately in Latin America, it has been first Honduras’ elected president Manuel Zelaya, then Ecuador’s Rafael Correa who were he target of coup d’états. In Africa not long ago there was another coup d’état masterminded from within the U.S. but well, of course, the NSA, CIA, … didn’t notice anything.
RCL
Sign this petition:
https://www.change.org/p/senators-congressmen-investigate-cointelpro-harassment-now-being-used-to-silence-activists-whistleblowers
Meet some targeted individuals:
https://youtu.be/563Bm7Qd4JY
Support the July 23, 2016 Targeted Individuals Media Day event:
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This was a staged coup – Erdogan was ON HOLIDAY!?!?!?!? – to give Erdogan tighter control of the country – his own Mini 911.
“This uprising is a gift from God to us because this will be a reason to cleanse our army.”
What cunt calls a REAL military coup in one of Europe’s major nations “a gift”?
A lying, cheating, conniving cunt who knows it wasn’t real is who.
Erdogan, not so much Ashena Wolf, more just America’s little Lap Dog in Asia Minor, a bullying little fascist prick so insecure he sues German comedians for mocking him.
Is that it, America? Are those your best friends now? To paraphrase the Abba song that rolls through my head whenever I think about you: “You feel like you win when you lose” – that’s America, post-Soviet Union. You think you are the world’s superpower, but you are crumbling whilst everyone else rises. You are just taking a little longer to collapse than the Soviets did.
Just hurry up, will you, the world is sick of your Military-Industrial machinations and corporate patent renewals and one-sided trade deals.
You are sooo right FOFO. It appears that this IS America. The lesser of 2 evils. That’s why it’s so important for the U.S. to elect somebody other than Hillary Clinton, or Donald Drumpf. How about Gary Johnson?
Erdogan does now owe the social media society “heavily”. It is time for him to pay up. He owes a huge debt of gratitude to all those he begged “to take to the streets”.
On another note Il Duce’s “source” just seems to be injecting misinformation into the discussion. This coup has the fingerprints of the CIA all over it. When Lt col Peters praises the Turk military and says it will bring real democracy, it shows the US military is supporting it.
Since when has a junta ever resulted in a democracy? Running over civilians with a tank, like a terrorist in Nice?
Nice try CIA, you lost this time.
This “coup” was possibly a great success in the eyes of the CIA
because now
Erdogan is going to use it to do even greater harm to
Turkey in the name of conservative religiosity and intolerance.
The CIA is probably pleased with the results.
They and the rest of the faking U$A have consistently helped
promote tyrants and destroy the social fabric in the name
of private profits and increased militarization under the
disguise of democracy.
Things are probably going to digress into a horror show in
Turkey and the powerful will blame those with the least power
and Turkey will likely become another version of the corrupt
religious state which is thriving in Saudi Arabia.
I really hate to in ANY way, be on Erdogan’s side, just like I hated to in ANY way to be on Morsi’s side. But you have to look at the alternative… Is Egypt ANY more democratic because of the coup by Sisi? Just ask AL Jazeera! Erdogan and Morsi, even being the assholes they were, still had more right to lead because they were elected!
Maybe Karma will prevail and Erdogan will be assassinated, maybe Drumpf too. Maybe phucking Comey will get his magic pony.
The “attempted coup” in Turkey has given Erdogan
a means of achieving quite a few of the schemes he has
been wanting. As Pepe Escobar has written, Erdogan has
become the Ottoman “Sultan” of today.
No aspect of what has happened in Turkey is “democratic”
and that is going to become glaringly obvious as
“Sultan” Erdogan unleashes his perverse religious inquisition.
The idea of taking sides is dangerous and foolish because
there is evidence –
the ready list of thousands of judges who have been
quickly rounded up even though there is no evidence
of their complicity, for one –
that Erdogan was preparing for this to happen in order to
destroy any semblance of secular democracy in Turkey.
Erdogan is implementing a one-sided Turkey of
intolerant fundamentalism and paranoid delusions.
As Erdogan uses the “coup” as a means to
promote repression and crush dissenting voices
(including thousands of judges),
he has stated that the “coup” was,
“a gift from god.”
More like a gift to himself…
The attempted coup appears to have been an amateur effort. As one ex-CIA employee sniffed:
When the people became aware that social media hadn’t been taken down, they knew the coup was a bungled affair, and refused to support it. Citizens demand a certain standard of professionalism in their coups.
Social media is important, but not because it thwarts coups in and of itself. Its continuance during a coup is a bellwether, however, a sure sign the CIA is not involved and, as an amateur coup, is overwhelmingly likely to fail.
Unless of course the coup was allowed or even encouraged to happen as a pretext for weeding out ones political opposition and/or passing a new round of draconian laws.
Turks must be especially sensitive to this sort of thing, being coup connoisseurs.
I disagree with the author of this article, it is too bad the coup did not succeed. Erdogan is a horrible dictator, easily one of the worst in the Middle East and he must go. Do you think he will ever leave power by the ballot box or other legal, democratic means? No, of course not: he’s a power hungry despot who will kill or jail anyone–just like he’s doing right now to the coup supporters–who challenges his dictatorial powers.
As for this failed coup attempt: you know the old saying, “If at first you don’t succeed, try try again”. I sincerely hope that not only does another coup happen soon–and succeed–but that Erdogan ends up in a pine box at the bottom of the Bosphorus Strait :-)
“Erdogan is a horrible dictator. . . ”
Really? Are you sure? Consider: what should we look for in a good dictator?
First of all, the greedier the better. The whole reason to install a dictator is that they can be bribed to do what you want; take the Saudis. They get their palaces, the American empire gets control of their oil. A good dictator takes $100 million in bribes for him and his family, and in return gives up $50 billion in natural resources; this is what Wall Street likes to see.
Now, Erdogan was happy to play this game with ISIS oil revenues from 2012-2015 or so. So this makes him a good dictator.
What else do we see in a good dictator? Ruthless oppression of the general population. After all, a democratic nation would want to control its resources, not give them away to some foreign imperial overlord. They’d want $50 billion in cash for $50 billion in resources, in other words. So the dictator must ruthlessly oppress the population on behalf of his foreign masters.
Erdogan has certainly done this; he shut down the independent press and has used the Turkish military to crush any domestic Kurdish resistance – hence, a good dictator.
I don’t really see how Erdogan is any different from the other dictators the U.S. props up in the region – why is he so “horrible” as a dictator, precisely? And won’t this failed coup attempt help him to become an even better dictator than he was before? Even greedier and more ruthless?
Why, soon we may see the establishment of the “Royal House of Erdogan”, much like the Royal House of Saud that has been such a success story for the American Empire’s agenda in the Middle East. The Project for a New American Century (neocon) and Center for a New American Security (neolib) crowd would be overjoyed if that happened.
And yet today, the US Hippocrit in Chief gave praise to the preservation of a democratically elected nutjob who is turning his power into a dictatorship when only just yesterday the US Hippocrit in Chief helped to overthrow a democratically elected president in Egypt by financing a coup that put a military nutjob in power.
While the dancing marionets play games with their bullshit relationships, the populations suffer. What a con job.
BTL comment from the above-cited Graun story (wow! they’re still occasionally permitting comments!):
This.
Mona, below:
No sooner mentioned . . .
Yay! Democracy won. ;^(
Not one Muslim I followed on Twitter supported this coup attempt. Many considered it anti-democratic, and not because they love Erdogan. Not one of them does.
It is just that, like me, they understand that a military coup is nearly always worse than Erdogan and his sins against democracy.
Mona, you just don’t understand.
This coup was a very bad idea, mostly because it was undertaken by a faction of the military, for unknown reasons, and it failed miserably, giving Erdogan license to go wild.
It’s interesting that yo refer to “Muslims” you follow. In Turkey, it is indeed Muslims — low-information, strongly-sectarian Sunni Muslims who desire the modern equivalent of a caliphate — who are Erdogan’s largest constituency.
He and they are theocrats, attempting to (and largely succeeding at) dismantling the secular Turkish state established by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.
To imagine that Erdogan’s Turkey is a “democracy” except as brand, a label, just demonstrates a lack of understanding of the reality.
To be certain that, as bad as it may be, it must be better than the result of any military takeover likewise ignores reality.
It’s one thing to insist that democracy must be better than a military takeover. It’s quite another to insist that anything that calls itself democracy is also superior.
That’s not who I follow. I’m following Western Muslims. Some of them have fiends or relatives in Turkey, and none are theocrats. All of them oppose Erdogan, and none supported a military coup.
<
Again, the well-informed Muslims I follow all seem to believe a military coup would be worse for Turkey, as bad as Erdogan is. I doubt it has to do with their failure to properly understand the reality in Turkey. Among the reasons I follow them is because they know a great deal more than I do about affairs in various Arab/Persian nations.
I'd defer to them before I would to you on this issue. Especially since I am aware that, historically, military coups virtually always end up in tyranny.
I told you who Erdogan’s mass of followers are and you responded by telling me that’s not who you follow on Twitter. Of course not — Erdogan’s popular constituency, if they use social media, doesn’t speak or write in English.
Anyway, it’s a non sequitur.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree, although I have to point out, again, that I have not supported this, or any particular, military coup in Turkey. I have merely opined that a coup of that nature might not, ipso facto, be worse than Erdogan’s phony democracy.
No it isn’t. You seemed to be implying I was following or somehow influenced by Sunni Turkish Muslims.
If so, I’m unaware of any knowledgeable, non-Erdogan-supporting Muslims who share that opinion. And based on my own understanding of history in general I see no reason to disagree with them. But at the end of the day it doesn’t matter — the coup failed, Erdogan is doubling down, and the situation is worse now regardless of the merits or lack therof of the attempted coup.
“You seemed to be implying . . .” = “I inferred . . .” ;^)
And you keep talking about “Muslims.” One of the founding principles of Kemalism (the ideological structure of the modern Turkish State, which the Islamist Erdogan is trying to dismantle) is “laicism” — more or less like secularism in US government structures.
So, why is the religious affiliation of your informants relevant? I mean, it would be very relevant to Erdogan and his fellow theocrats, of course . . .
I already explained that, to wit:
As Non-occidentalists they are generally in a better position to grasp matters in Turkey. Western takes too often dominate the narrative, and indeed in this case a lot of Western liberals were all agog and in favor of the coup, whereas none of these Muslims were.
I guess it’s a good thing the internet and social media were not around in Algeria’s civil war. Something like this might have happened, and the FIS might be in charge.
I hope the Kurds and Chapullers will live to regret helping Erdogan. Sadly, Erdogan may wind up repaying them by sending his police against them.
I know I will be seen as a conspiracy theorist, but
what if Erdogan was involved in the “coup?”
He is the one who is gaining the most from it.
There are possibly hundreds of dead and most are civilians.
How were they killed?
Will the arrested members of the military be testifying
or will the “democracy” in Turkey execute first and
maybe ask questions later?
I cannot help but be suspicious because Erdogan is as devious
and pompous as they come.
Exactly! There is something that smells really fishy about this. He gets to remove his opponents and all he has to say is they were involved…
In shocking news, Sisi sees to it that Egypt blocks a UN Security Council resolution
Actually, it’s a “statement,” rather than a resolution. Egypt isn’t a permanent UNSC member and couldn’t block a resolution. But “statements” have to be unanimous.
So, shocked (shocked!) as I am that Sisi would appear to condone violence oppose democracy, I also have to wonder why a resolution apparently wasn’t introduced.
All opinions expressed here are officially managed by The Optics Department, represented by Mona and Junior Apprentice Doug Salzmann.
This poor man is likely mentally ill. This is not an insult of the sort one sees hurled cavalierly online every day.
To see him set forth all the plots he thinks are against him — and his “evidence” for them — see this sub-thread starting with my comment highlighted in grey.
Don’t you think you are very pretentious? Whoever taught you manners, Mona, did a very poor job.
General, you are a profound bigot and wingnut, and your opinion of me means less than nothing.
Stan considers himself a “Targeted Individual,” and those people generally are very disturbed. For further information on that simply go to the thread I linked, which in turn links to articles explaining this unfortunate movement of paranoid and sometimes dangerous persons.
“and your opinion of me means less than nothing.”
Your need to declare such petty things is right in line with the school-yard bully meme you project.
That you do not recognize the General’s snark is telling; you’re too busy looking for someone’s eyeballs to eat …
and when he nails you on your “manners” you just respond with invective.
Fucking pathetic behavior for Glenn’s FORMER law partner. When are you getting the help you need?
Yes, that’s me. Glenn and I both are very dismissive of fools and bigots; people have long complained that we are “mean, ” going back to our days at CompuServe. We don’t care and never have.
This is the Internet, and it abounds with antisemitic people like you, and mere wingnut ignoramuses such as the General. Stan, however, is in a separate category of troubling and troubled person who really does need medical attention.
I’ll continue to direct (merited) contempt at you, to the extent I engage you at all. Ditto for the General. Stan, however, I simply hope to see relieved of suffering — he probably really believes he’s being “remotely tortured” and all the rest, and that would be a hellish way to live.
You ride Glenn’s coattails just as Omooex did …
How are you doing with the “urge to inflict intolerable pain” on people who disagree with you? Really, that urge needs psychiatric help more than anything I seen posted here in quite some time.
Well actually, Glenn and I started online as something of a Dynamic Duo riding each other’s coattails. That is, we were tight before he was “the” Glenn Greenwald and were known for taking on idjits and wingnuts together. In any event, you brought up my status as Glenn’s former law partner.
And I have no idea what you mean by this:
I have never had nor articulated such an urge. That’s as accurate as the rest of the bullshit you spew to and about me. You are an antisemite who is simply petulant and pissed that I call him out about it. So, you follow me from thread to thread to do as you are doing here. You seem to have quite the obsession with me.
Take your meds before you stop being able to “suppress the urge to inflict intolerable pain” on me or others you’ve labelled.
The correct label allows you to apparently do to others what the TI folks are worried about.
Perhaps it’s OK in your mind to ” inflict intolerable pain” on antisemites …
or other Untermenschen …
@Mona
“my brother was a paranoid schizophrenic. I recognize a similar way of thinking in these Targeted Individuals, ”
And yet you fail to recognize your own internal rage displayed regularly.
Really, you’ve acknowledged you must suppress an “urge to inflict intolerable pain” upon someone (not me) whom you’ve labelled an antisemite.
Your need to apply definitive labels to everything speaks to an need for order in a chaotic life.
But this is the first time you are hearing such feedback so I recognize your skepticism in following your own advice.
That is false. It would be completely out of character for me, and it did not occur. Which is why you do not link to it; it doesn’t exist.
Well, yes, I do call antisemites what they are.
Again, yes, antisemites like you piss me off. Pretty obviously that you do is quite a burr in your saddle because you’ve been following me from thread to thread for some time now to whine and wail about it. [shrug]
“suppress the urge to inflict intolerable pain”
I will reprint your disgusting statement. (It’s going to rain this afternoon and tonight so I’ll wade then through the cesspool of your comments , with appropriate PPE, of course)
I’ve quoted it before and I’ll do it again.
I don’t make shit up, Mona. I don’t need to.
I remember everything.
Right, it’s so memorable, and so like me, that you can’t find it. You’ve never “quoted” it because it doesn’t exist. I would never express a desire to inflict intolerable pain on another human being. You “remember” that about as well as you “recall” the many other things you’ve falsely claimed I said.
Anyhoo, it’s getting weird, this obsession you have, following me from thread to thread to thread. Perhaps you should consider simply refraining from antisemitic commentary. Then my reason for calling you out would disappear, and you could move on, since you clearly seem unable to do so at the moment.
Everyone has a problem, Mona, but pretending that you are problem-free and so can make fun of everyone else is the manifestation of your lower, horrible self that our dear Sufi Muslim here can help alleviate.
Like Nate, Mona works in the optics department with apprentice Doug. Her work is also shabby but she is somewhat hobbled by more severe honesty issues. Serial lying was an asset when she worked in the field of US law [sic], but skill sets don’t always transfer seamlessly from one job environment to the next. No matter. Like the state, she works within a comfortably wide margin of error.
Club membership means never popping the tolerance.
@Mona
“This poor man is likely mentally ill. ”
OK Dr Mona, glad you are able to label yet another malady in your life upon someone else. Your acknowledgment of pity is a nice touch …
Yes, my brother was a paranoid schizophrenic. I recognize a similar way of thinking in these Targeted Individuals, and as the Myron May case shows, it can make them very dangerous. (May, a TI, went on a rampage killing three at a Florida university.)
As this article documents, mental health professionals are quite concerned about Targeted Individuals like Stan: United States of Paranoia: They See Gangs of Stalkers
Posts like this give Mona away as a sock puppet.
She spends long periods of time here attempting to fool people into believing she is a reasonable person who actually thinks for herself, then blows it by citing poorly manufactured disinfo from the NYT (The BS Newspaper of Record) to support her attacks.
Mona, The Toilet That Types!®
It is a technological wonder made in the USA. (Some things are still manufactured in that country.)
But like other toxic waste dumps it is not designed to clean up good.
I think Stan really believes this stuff and I think he really might benefit from some counseling or medical treatment.
Seriously, Stan, it couldn’t hurt to talk to your doc about the things that seem to be happening to you and around you.
Believe me, if Mona and I were in charge of the World Optics Department, things would look a lot different than they do. Of course, I have no idea how the things we fight about might look. ;^)
“World” Optics Department?
Who mentioned you being in charge of anything beyond fact-free, custom realities you try to create here?
—
Here is series of videos and photos reflecting a small part of a reality which does not align with your constantly spewing bullshit.
Stan, please, please get some medical attention. Your movement tends to believe that psychiatrists are “in on” the plots against you, but just listening to one for a session or two couldn’t hurt, could it?
Yet another lie. You just can’t help yourself, can you?
I am a member of no movement and there is no movement behind me. Backup your bullshit and go find one member who takes instructions from me, or has even met me. While you are at it, go get some integrity. Ever heard of it?
—
Here is some photographic evidence of my way, way out there claims (as Mona characterizes them): Central Park Goon – July 11, 2015.
To be honest, I must qualify my last statement.
I once made efforts to meet other self described targets. All but one refused. I spoke to that one individual for several hours in NYC, and we were photographed by the very same goon shown in the “Central Park Goon” photo linked to above. Neither of us followed or led one another in any way.
To a lying American piece of shit like Mona, two people comparing notes is a dangerous movement.
Stan, a movement need not have formal membership lists. You are among the tens of thousands of Targeted Individuals who populate the Internet and claim various plots against them by some cabal. As such, you are part of what is loosely considered the Targeted Individual movement — it has some structured organizations, but not all TIs belong to these.
None of this matters anyway. The things you believe are happening to you you likely experience as real. I do have great pity for you in that regard and wish to see you relieved of this suffering.
Dr. Mona: “…loosely considered the Targeted Individual movement…”
Dr. Mona: ” The things you believe are happening to you you likely experience as real.”
What crap.
GG’s former law partner is a murderers’ shill who claims to know all about what is and is not real. What does this say about GG’s ability to judge character? And what does this say about New Look Media managerial and staff members who give this demented piece of shit and her apprentice a platform?
I accept that test. It’s fine with me if readers consider the likelihood that Glenn Greenwald would personally and professionally associate with a “murderer’s shill.” Or whether, in the alternative, an anonymous guy named Stan is deluded about the byzantine plots and tortures he claims to be the victim of.
Indeed, nuf said also likes to continually bring up my association with Glenn. Also where nuf’s concerned I’m quite willing to accept that test: Readers who don’t know me likely would consider how likely it is that Glenn would choose associations with the crazy picture of me that nuf presents.
As I keep saying, this is the Internet. Out here there are legions of nuts bigots and cranks. You and nuf are but two. It’s usual for such people to dislike me and spew all kinds of deranged nonsense to and about me. Glenn is subjected to it as well; it just goes with being an aggressive activist online.
@mona to Stan
You present crazy all on your own.
And you are the former partner … because who would remain a partner with a crazy person … :) it’s a bluff, Mona, cuz that’s what lawyers do best; bluff.
I am part of no movement.
You are part of a movement of BS artists and fake targets — all of you spouting crazy talk — attempting to deflect attention away from a long running state campaign of covert, extra judicial torture and murder. You are a childishly enthusiastic member of an organized ‘movement’ committing mass murder using the old DDR’s Stasi Zersetzung methods.
Real targets of this campaign are simply interested in saving their own lives.
Innocent targets who try to save themselves force you to work overtime. While this does seem to piss you off, you simultaneously display an unhealthy amount joy while performing your sadistic work. Talk about mental cases…
Stan, dude, for a moment, pretend you are a new reader here. Now consider that this new reader learns that I am an American, Glenn Greenwald’s former law partner and friend, and that you claim I am all of these above things.
How do you think that looks, Stan? Can you really not see why someone would conclude that you have a mental health issue? Don’t you think it’s at least possible?
I am trying to save my life. Why don’t you consider how people like you look to those who have been observing your behavior?
Again, I post the link to a series of photos and videos corroborating my “way, way out there claims” of being stalked and harassed. They represent a tiny fraction of the abuses, and the mildest.
The sadist collaborates with these people.
In the comments section of an Internet site and posting youtube videos of random people whom you purport are after you. That’s simply untenable, Stan.
Again, why not see a mental health professional? It can’t hurt, and maybe some relief would be had for you.
I don’t take advice from cowardly American sheepdogs who could only fool… American Sheep.
I did once take the conventional route to report crimes. I went to the SJPD station at noon on a Saturday. Regular business hours.
This was law enforcement’s response.
Diagnosis: Paranoia
A new show from the writers of CSI!
Patriot, you have it backwards. The paranoids are those who fear exposure of those at the root of this. That’s why Mona has been working all day. Fear. (With a little sadism thrown in.)
By the way, speaking of incurable American Sheep who are so paranoid they were talked into cheer-leading invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan (not Saudi Arabia), then, losing and learning nothing, then, allowing their scared-stupid little selves to be easily walked into provoking a war with Russia…
which evil lesser are you picking in November?
“All opinions expressed here are officially managed by The Optics Department, represented by Mona and Junior Apprentice Doug Salzmann.”
This is a very lucid insight Stan; however, it is not totally accurate. Doug is one of Mona’s many sock puppets. The issue of sock puppets has plagued both Glenn and Mona since the early days of Uncharted Territory. Controversy draws a crowd. One of Mona’s main objectives is to create traffic (or the illusion thereof) in Glenn’s forums. It is all about brand recognition. The irony of this approach is that such cheesy tactics are hard to abandon even with success (or maybe even because of success).
My advice to you and any other would-be participant in Intercept threads is to just assume that anyone could be acting in concert with Mona – especially those who appear to be in opposition to her. personally, I always look for logical consistency in the positions of those I engage; this includes past posts. Take Brexit for example. Clearly the driving force behind Brexit was the popular perception of the average Brit that they were being stripped of the sovereign right to determine their own political fate – both on an individual and a national level; all polling proved that this was the case. Yet the Intercept ran a whole series of articles that unfairly characterized the democratic aspirations of the British people as merely a product of right wing rhetoric that played to their irrational fears. As Glenn Greenwald has always presented himself as pro-democratic civil libertarian above all else, I found it astounding that he chose to remain silent on the issue until after the vote. Even then, he still refused to abandon the view that the majority of those who chose to leave the EU were capable of determining for themselves what they deemed to be best for them. To this very day, he claims that racism and xenophobia was the driving force behind the Brexit movement (more so on Twitter). In turn, Mona and her cadre of sock puppets are tasked to echo Glenn’s conveniently late-to-the-party position and challenge anyone who actually commends those who refused to allow the doomsayers of economic calamity to dissuade them from attempting to take back what is rightfully theirs by birth, a sovereign right to determine their own fate regardless of perception or projected ill-fated outcomes.
Ah, another of the cranks, bigots and ignoramuses is heard from. When one of you goes off on a rant about me, the rest of you often join in. You may agree about nothing else; various unhinged notions and preposterous speculation about me is your sole unifying theme.
Carry on.
Is that any way to treat someone who is actually providing you with the contrarian positions that you so desperately attempt to feign through your sock puppet foils. Honestly Mona, there isn’t a genuine contributor who doesn’t understand that you are a Narcissistic Sociopath. Your only saving grace is that, on occasion, you manage to cut-and-paste some on-topic info that is worthy of consideration. In wondering why Glenn Greenwald continues to allow you to indulge your sickness at the expense of his own reputation, I can only conclude that he either shares your utter contempt for those who worship him, or that he has a soft place in his heart for the emotionally challenged.
Karl, you are a far-right, authoritarian, racist bigot. If you thought well of me I’d be extremely worried.
Kaching, another feather in my bonnet
Contrary to my imprecise snark referring only to “Mona and Junior Apprentice Doug Salzmann”, I am fully aware the TI comments section is a Stasi playground and that they have a large head-count.
All opinions expressed here are officially managed by Mona, with the help of Junior Associate Doug Salzmann.
The coup attempt will force Erdogun to divert his resources from creating mischief in Syria to policing the army inside his own country. This will no doubt he good for peace in the region. Also, he may have some use for the Syrian refugees to replace his mutinous troops, so we can send a lot of them back for his use.
This is also a failure of our own CIA and NSA. We should have been monitoring their army and air force units more closely. We store our nukes there, and so we should not be taking any chances. Recently, Erdogun has been trying to befriend Putin without our permission, which is not a very healthy activity. But the funny thing is that we had no prior knowledge of his dalliance, or we would have had applied some pressure to bear on him by sending our very reliable Victoria Nuland who is an expert at these type of things.
This then is the real problem of the Snowden Disclosures. Now creeps like Erdogun and his army have started to encrypt the thanksgiving dinner menu and we are finding it impossible to place an order.
The amazing thing is how the USG manages to mismanage everything by trying hard and then when that doesn’t work, not trying at all, but collecting fat salaries anyway. AMERICA IS BEING PLAYED. AMERICANS ARE BEING ROBBED. And the thieves need hillary in a real bad way if they want to rule the planet with the TPP and have their one world currency con.
Much ado about nothing. Turkey is an evil country and Erdogan is a disgusting pig. If the coup had succeeded, maybe things would have gotten a little better, maybe they’d have gotten a little worse. But since it wasn’t the Kurds trying to take power — which they’re not interested in doing — progressives have no skin in this game, because aside from the Kurds, who are not Turks and will therefore never run the country, there is no substantially large group of decent people in that country.
There must be some substantially decent individuals in your country. I have to believe this is true. But substantially large groups of decent people in your country? Not so sure about that.
I didn’t say that my country isn’t evil, but this story isn’t about my country; it’s about Turkey.
Stop your crocodile tears for the Kurds. People like you said nothing when Saddam was gassing them or when secular Turkish governments were bombing them with F-16s.
Headline: “Military Coup in Turkey Orchestrated by Erdogan.” Not holding my breath.
The military officers also set fire to the Reichstag building.
I’m sorry, but Erdogan’s return was all too easy and clean. There might as well have been rose petals on the tarmac. This year Erdogan cited Hitler’s Germany as example of effective government, and now he’s stolen a page from Hitler’s playbook.
Your theory doesn’t fit with the reality of the politics and history of Turkey.
In 9 out of 10 “Coup d’État” worldwide in the past, the USA were involved.
I think an integral part of this report should be whatever the putschists were saying
Ergodan seems to be too much of a clown and he doesn’t seem to be good for business. As of late he has been courting the Russians and trying to amend ties with Assad . . . which is more than enough to make freedom lovers really worry and then things start “happening” …
Turkey had said to NATO and the U.S. that they would not let them use their air space to invade Iraq for a simple reason: “They will always be their neighbors”
Excellent from the Turkish people and as it seems police for fighting off the coup, with their share of martyrs for a good cause.
RCL
He’s not a clown. He’s and unstable, corrupt authoritarian who has been doing his best to dismantle the secular structure of the Turkish state in order to “Islamicize” it.
Well, we don’t know the extent to which Erdogan, himself, has been a proponent of the idea of doing both of those things, but it’s a very good idea and appears to be the emerging policy of the US government, also. (Assad, one should remember, is at least as much a legitimate “democratic” leader as Erdogan).
Ha.
Which is the truth — and just one of many very good reasons not to support the illegal war of aggression on Iraq which has led to the disintegration of much of the region.
Please don’t make the mistake of believing Erdogan’s authoritarian, theocracy-tinged, corrupt administration, installed by fundamentally-flawed and manipulated election, is anything like real democracy.
As for social media, it may well have played some part in the failure of the coup, but the real reason it failed is that it was undertaken by minority faction of the military. There is little doubt that a coup attempt led by the united military establishment would have succeeded.
That reflects what I was seeing on Twitter. Muslims who revile Erdogan were horrified by the coup attmpt and at those Westerners who were supporting it.
Several have also predicted that this stupid, ill-considered attempted coup will cause Erdogan to become even more autrocratic.
You can pretty much bet on it.
There once was a man from ankera
Who cursed those who would not thankima
In closing that door
He got nothing but more
Insults that saved his wankera
dedicated to the bravely outspoken Boris Johnson.