At the award-winning seafood restaurant in downtown Cleveland that The Atlantic rented out for the entire four-day Republican National Convention, GOP Rep. Bill Johnson turned to me and explained that solar panels are not a viable energy source because “the sun goes down.”
Johnson had just stepped off the stage where he was one of the two featured guests speaking at The Atlantic’s “cocktail caucus,” where restaurant staff served complimentary wine, cocktails, and “seafood towers” of shrimp, crab cakes, oysters, and mussels to delegates, guests, reporters and, of course, the people paying the bills.
The event was sponsored by the American Petroleum Institute, the lobbying arm of fossil fuel giants like ExxonMobil, Chevron, and ConocoPhillips.
Johnson, a climate denier and influential member of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, spoke of a future when American scientists “solve these big problems” and “figure out how to harness the sun’s energy, and store it up, so that we can put it out over time.” His hypothetical invention, of course, is called a battery, and was invented over 200 years ago.
Instead of balancing Johnson with an environmentalist or a climate scientist, The Atlantic paired Johnson with another notorious climate denier: Rep. Kevin Cramer, R-N.D., who is an energy adviser to Donald Trump. Cramer has called global warming “fraudulent science by the EPA,” and once told a radio audience in 2012 that “we know the globe is cooling.”
Both congressmen went nearly unchallenged by the moderator, The Atlantic’s Washington Editor Steve Clemons, who said he wasn’t able to find an opposing speaker, but went ahead with the event anyway.
Lewis Finkel, a top lobbyist for the American Petroleum Institute gave the opening remarks. “We are pushing forward for a robust energy discussion during this election cycle,” he said.
Evidence of human-made climate change is so conclusive that it’s wrong for journalists to treat its denial like a reasonable point of view. But it is a new low for major media groups to sell their brand to lobbyists and let climate truthers go unchallenged.
And The Atlantic was hardly alone. At the Republican National Convention, the American Petroleum Institute also paid the Washington Post and Politico to host panel conversations where API literature was distributed, API representatives gave opening remarks, and not one speaker was an environmentalist, climate expert, scientist, or Democrat.
At The Atlantic‘s event, Cramer and Johnson both downplayed concerns about climate science. “The 97 percent of the scientists who believe its real, don’t all believe the exact same level,” said Cramer. “Whose fault it is, what’s going to stop it, … there’s a wide range in that spectrum.”
Johnson told the audience “climate change is probably not in most American’s top 10, top 20 issues.”
Clemons offered only limited pushback. When Johnson argued that alternative energy should not receive federal subsidies, Clemons pointed out that “the natural gas and the oil industry and the fossil fuel sector also have massive subsidies built into them,” and asked Johnson, “Would you remove all of those? How do you have that discussion?”
Johnson replied with a non-answer: “You let the energy market drive the innovation. I am not against incentives … for companies trying to pursue energy-efficient projects.” Clemons did not press him on the point.
Judge for yourself:
After the event, I followed up, asking Johnson why fossil fuel companies get tens of billions of dollars a year in federal government subsidies but alternative energy must be “market-driven.” Johnson denied any knowledge of the highly controversial subsidies, the protection of which is a top priority for the oil lobby. “The American government subsidizes fossil fuels … I don’t know what you’re talking about. I haven’t voted for that,” he said.
At the Washington Post’s discussion, Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., said that in the past 15 years the earth was, on average, “cooling down,” but stressed “the point is that it’s not a settled science.”
Stephen Stromberg, an opinion writer moderating the panel for the Washington Post, registered his protest but quickly moved on. “I think there would be a vast bulk of climate scientists who would disagree,” he said, “but we don’t have to litigate the science of it this morning.”
The Washington Post’s discussion was hosted at a swanky brewpub the newspaper rented out for the week, a stone’s throw from the main entrance to the Quicken Loans Arena where the convention was held. The American Petroleum Institute was also an underwriter for the rental, and the brewpub offered guests free hors d’oeuvres, an open bar, and complimentary massages in a side room. API literature was stacked on tables, including the check-in desk.
Not to be outdone, Politico rented out the entire 21st floor of a high-rise hotel and offered guests hits from a prominently featured “flavored oxygen bar.” At Politico‘s API-sponsored event, the oil lobbying group’s CEO, Jack Gerard, opened the event by telling the audience that “the United States has become the superpower of energy in the world.”
Rep. Cramer, who was also a guest at the Politico event, joked with the audience that in his home state of North Dakota, “we’re for a warmer climate.” When discussing the EPA’s new standards to reduce methane emissions, a greenhouse gas far worse than carbon dioxide, he remarked “we’re not going to put diaper on cattle, let’s get real.” Both lines were met by roaring laughter.
Steven Shepard, a campaign editor at Politico, barely pushed back in his role as moderator. Instead of asking about the legitimacy of climate science, he asked the panel whether Donald Trump’s position on climate change – that it does not exist and is simply a Chinese conspiracy – would hurt the party in regional elections. None of the panelists said it would.
American journalists have long held that editorial independence is essential to hard-hitting, trusted reporting. News organizations build strong institutional barriers to prevent advertisers from influencing their journalism. But as revenue from traditional advertising has declined, newsrooms have been finding new ways to drive revenue from sponsors.
The Atlantic was a pioneer when it came to holding sponsored events. It’s always been controversial – but there have been some spectacular embarrassments as others tried new variations on the theme.
Washington Post, for instance, announced in 2009 that it would sell sponsorships for “off-the-record salons” – gatherings of D.C. elite that cost as much as $25,000 a seat. The plan violated many newsroom rules — it was aimed at single sponsors with vested interests, it involved selling access to editorial personnel, it was off the record and “confrontation” was banned. The Post eventually dropped the plan, and its ombudsman at the time, Andrew Alexander, described it as “an ethical lapse of monumental proportions.”
So how could this week’s single-sponsored events featuring editorial talent without dissenting speakers not have violated the editorial standards of The Atlantic, the Washington Post, and Politico?
Anna Bross, the senior director of communications for The Atlantic wrote in an email “The Atlantic has full control over speakers and panels produced. We do not defer any of that control to event underwriters.”
Steve Clemons, who moderated The Atlantic event, said there was no environmentalist on his panel because he couldn’t find one within the time deadline.
“I find it very important, no matter what the event is, to build in a diversity of perspective,” Clemons said. “So why didn’t we have that here? Because nobody would accept. I asked so many players, both different parties, different perspectives, private sectors players, to balance it out, and within the time we have, it didn’t happen.”
Then why not just cancel the panel? “Because I had trust in my own ability to be the alternative, and I had trust that the audience would ask questions to provide balance,” Clemons said.
“It is incumbent on us [journalists], to do what we can, to either create the debate or create the balance of views,” Clemons said. “You could argue we should have done more, and I, actually, would agree with that. I could have been more robust, and said ‘are you an idiot, do you not understand science?’ I did that in my own way, without being completely offensive.”
Washington Post Vice President for Communications Kris Corrati insisted that the sponsors had no influence on the makeup of the panel – and said the Post, too, had tried and failed to find speakers with different views.
Representatives from all three news organizations told The Intercept that the presence of journalists provided an adequate check on the views of climate-denying congressmen.
They also all noted that the American Petroleum Institute is paying for three more events – at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia. Politico‘s Shepard said his company’s event will have “the same exact sponsor, with a number of lawmakers that probably don’t line up with the sponsor on the issues.”
But consider the makeup of those panels. The Atlantic‘s DNC event will feature Rep. Jerry McNerney, D-Calif., a strong advocate of renewable energy. But it will also include Rep. Gene Green, D-Texas, a vehement defender of fracking.
Politico‘s DNC event will feature Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, a defender of fracking, and Rep. Dave Loebsack, D-Iowa, who crossed party lines to vote in favor of the Keystone XL Pipeline, as well as energy advisers from the White House and Clinton campaign.
What were once blurred lines in the journalism business are becoming increasingly clear – because they have been crossed.
Earlier this month, for instance, The Intercept obtained a brochure from the Beltway newspaper The Hill in which it offered to sell interviews. For $200,000 sponsors would be granted an interview for “up to three named executives or organization representatives of your choice.”
Top Photo: A coal-fired plant.
Audiomachine – Sol Invictus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z58mZToQhRY
To all you people believing in climate change. The #1 largest factor of climate is the SUN. The earth is Billions of years old and has been through many stages. Right now, we are at a time in history where it is warmer now than the past 300 years.
This is why plants, animals, and human life is striving (even with Planned Parenthood) killing 50% of the unborn black population.
There will be another Ice Age on planet earth, if Governments don’t destroy the planet with weapons.
Do you people who believe that humans are the main cause of “global warming” believe in Dinosaurs? What killed them off and what came afterwards? Meteors, earthquakes, asteroids, ect….are the main causes of “Global Changing” (which does exist).
Do you people not understand that Al Gore is a globalist that came up with this idea that Carbon is causing this. Ladies and gentlemen, when Al Gore calls for a Carbon-tax, this is a direct tax on your body. Your body is made of Carbon. Governments have stolen and taxed everything else. They will tax your breath and your farts. They are already trying to tax farmers for their cows farting. You dumbasses need to read and understand the EVIL behind all of this non-sense you Liberals believe in. I think most Liberals are needing a father figure in their lives. Someone they can call “Daddy” and will always be the child being told what to do. Just like the slaves in North Korea. Some say that’s all they know and wouldn’t want freedom if it was offered to them.
All of your comments have been debunked http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Even the oil cops know it is true https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?hl=en#safe=off&hl=en&q=oil+corporations+new+that+climate+change+was+real
Debunked? Life on planet earth is striving….Please tell me that 50% of the black population is not being killed by our Democratic Gov? I doubt you pay taxes, but if you do, you are being forced to pay for killing babies.
Pictures are worth a 1,000 words. Here’s an essay for you silly denial.
http://usuncut.com/climate/10-terrifying-before-and-after-photos-will-silence-global-warming-deniers/
Perhaps you will believe NASA. Here is their tracking of mean temperatures of the planet.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/
Here are 2 people 10x smarter.
Randall Carlson & Graham Hancock….Please find people more intelligent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8
Go back under your rock, your scaring people
And I forgot: Teslas go hundreds of miles on a charge, easily far enough to do your daily commute & errands and get back home to charge the battery.
Your negative attitude toward less harmful technology and implication that it’s OK to continue destroying the Earth by using fossil fuels is disgusting.
When charging the battery, what type of power are you using. Nuclear? Do you feel Nuclear is safer than fossil fuels? Ask China.
There are gives and takes to each.
Nicola Tesla came up with an idea to give free energy to the US. Guess what happened….government and globalist shut it down and said nope. We can’t make money off free electricity. Same with tires that last forever. If we cared about the economy why wouldn’t Governmnet step In and see how we can produce every vehicle with Everlasting tires? What about the Carborator that got 100 miles per gallon. Why was this banned? You Liberals need to wake up and realize you are Sheep being led to the slaughterhouse by the Wolves.
OMG! No, you charge your car when you get home from the solar panels on your roof. What an idiotic comment.
And the rest of your post is no less idiotic. This is about the environment, not money, and your other comments are completely irrelevant.
Yes, we have batteries but the fact is that the batteries that we have are not adequate to make solar panels self-sufficient. If you put solar panels on your house you won’t be able to store the energy except at enormous expense. Electric cars have a big problem with range for the same reason.
I am with Bill Gates in thinking the way to solve problems like this is with major government investment in research rather than in trying to tweak private enterprise with taxes (economists tend to think that anything can be done with taxes). Of course people like Johnson are actually opposed to any government expense as well as higher taxes on carbon-based energy.
That’s simply not true. There are people who live off the grid with solar panels. The issue, like with all environmental problems, is are you willing to lower your energy consumption below psychotically high levels.
How do you come up with an answer like that when almost all of the inventive powers of the US have come from its citizens? So what if it gets turned over to the military to make better for war, it was still an invention of an individual! Corporations suck!
Not true. I have a friend who just installed Elon Musk’s solar panels on his house, and is buying the battery for it so that it will run completely off of that instead the utility company energy. They exist, but people refuse to help along technology that works instead of subsidizing resources that are old, finite, and pollutants. 3k for the solar panels, and 3k for the solar battery, and your house is off the grid and self-sufficient.
The Atlantic has been a basiton of right-wing politics for quite awhile. Just look at the history of two staff writers: David Frum And Peter Beinart. Frum was GWB’s speechwriter who coined “the axis of evil” that his boss made the centerpiece of his state of the union speech that began the drum beat for war in Iraq. And Beinart was the executive editor of The New Republic that endorsed GWB’s Iraq War resolution. Beinart called himself a “liberal hawk,” whatever that is. So this piece hardly surprises me that The Atlantic is willing to carry water for the climate deniers on the payroll of the fossil fuel industry.
The Atlantic has been gone for a long while now.
It’s more concerning to me that idiots and/or liars who deny human-caused climate change and who don’t see it as a major issue are in positions of power in government. The corporate propaganda machine, aka the mainstream media, is a lot to blame for this, but the end result is really horrifying if you think about it. Same with Tea Baggers being in Congress. It’s like we’re putting Nazis in power, though I think even the Nazis would have done something about climate change.
The reason they (Corporations) deny climate change is because of the new capital spending they would need to incur in order to change their revenue streams. Example….The Big 3 automakers would have to retool all of their assembly lines to make electric cars and sustain some losses for a couple of years (most likely) in order to convert to non-carbon based fuels.
This is why I was so HUGELY disappointed in Obama when he came into office after the 2008 collapse and proposed his $1 Trillion dollar spending budget to help spur economic activity after the bubble.
That was exactly the right time to offer companies some capex funding to retool and convert our economy away from an oil based economy.
We could have killed 3 birds with 1 stone. Go Green, create jobs and industry and reduce foreign dependence on the Middle East.
Clemons couldn’t find someone to talk about global warming? I wonder how many experts would have volunteered, and paid for their own travel. Who, among the claimed many, refused his entreaty to appear? Obviously, he is compromised. Why isn’t he fired?
Loved watching VICELAND==>Dear President Obama
If you shit where you eat you are a fucking idiot! Disregarding the environments health is no different than shitting where you eat. Blaming global temperature fluctuations on humans is no different than disregarding the environments health or shitting where you eat.
We don’t know why temperature fluctuations happen. Partly because we focus valuable resources on humans being the cause. Resources that could identify the reason(s). Most likely the causes/reasons will be out of our control.
Ah no it’s not due to “humans” since humans don’t cause global warming – fossil fuel combustion does.
A human takes in food that comes from plants or from animals that eat plants. Plants grow by converting atmospheric carbon dioxide to plant material. When humans and other animals eat plants, they break that food down into carbon dioxide which goes back into the atmosphere. This is a steady-state system, i.e. you are not adding any net CO2 to the atmosphere.
However, if you take coal, oil and gas out of the ground where it has been for millions of years, and burn billions of tons a year, then you increase the CO2 in the atmosphere (as well as adding all kinds of health-damaging pollutants – try sucking on a tailpipe sometime). This CO2 acts as a blanket, warming the planet and altering the climate. Thus, if humans stop using fossil fuels, fossil fuels stop causing global warming.
There are many effects; floods, droughts, rising sea levels, impacts on agriculture, refugee crisis, etc. Wildfires in California, for one specific example:
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/regional_information/ca-and-western-states.html
…[Deforestation has many negative effects on the environment. The most dramatic impact is a loss of habitat for millions of species. Seventy percent of Earth’s land animals and plants live in forests, and many cannot survive the deforestation that destroys their homes.
Deforestation also drives climate change. Forest soils are moist, but without protection from sun-blocking tree cover they quickly dry out. Trees also help perpetuate the water cycle by returning water vapor back into the atmosphere. Without trees to fill these roles, many former forest lands can quickly become barren deserts.
Removing trees deprives the forest of portions of its canopy, which blocks the sun’s rays during the day and holds in heat at night. This disruption leads to more extreme temperatures swings that can be harmful to plants and animals.
Trees also play a critical role in absorbing the greenhouse gases that fuel global warming. Fewer forests means larger amounts of greenhouse gases entering the atmosphere—and increased speed and severity of global warming.]…
Read the full article
http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/deforestation-overview/
to add…
#13 What if we change – Forests Keep Drylands Working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qxnlTSHNkM
In this episode of the What if we change series, John Liu takes us on a global trip that focuses on drylands, their past function, their present dysfunction through a broadscale loss of forest cover, and its impact on soil loss and on the hydrological cycle. 70% of the world’s drylands is now degraded, and effects of climate change are especially prominent in dryland countries. Restoration of these, often vast, areas of land is therefore essential. This film shows there are ways to undo the damage we’ve inflicted upon our planet. Like the PRESENCE efforts in South Africa’s Baviaanskloof: a transdisciplinary initiative centered on guiding ecosystem management and restoration.
Fossil fuels have little to do with climate change. Most of it comes from methane exhaust from some 100 billion animals raised and killed for food each year. Look it up if you don’t believe me. A great documentary called Cowspiracy ought to enlighten you weak minds.
It is a combination of a multitude of man made global warming which includes fossil fuels.
@photosymbiosis-yes, yes, yes, I’m with you. I get what your point is but it’s still SPECULATIVE.
Studying the cause and identifying it as human activity obscures the cause, you say. Complete nonsense. We know how fast the temperature fluctuates when not driven by some unusual event. There is currently an unusual event driving a fast increase. Burning fossil fuels is it because the science shows it is, and because there is no other cause.
@Mike Sulzer-“Burning fossil fuels is it because the science shows it is, and because there is no other cause.”……wrong
“We know how fast the temperature fluctuates when not driven by some unusual event.”……that statement is incomplete. At the least, I think, it implies the mean temperature fluctuation is predictable when the human variable is eliminated from the algorithm?…… Uh, what?
You can look at estimates of the temperature record here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record. In the last thousand years, we have had fluctuations usually called the medieval warm period and the little ice age. How fast did the temperature vary during these event compared to how fast it has varied since about 1900? Such a fast variation requires a cause (or perhaps multiple causes). Gases that absorb infrared radiation from the surface of the earth and reradiate some of it back to earth have increased, and we did it. In addition there are positive feedback effects that amplify the effect. Given a dead certain recent fast increase of global temperatures and an explanation that works, what justification do you have for being so sure that it is wrong?
@Mike Sulzer-could you explain why “global warming” caused the ice shelf retreat during the most recent “ice age?” Could you then explain the “global cooling” of said “ice age?” Maybe that’s too narrow? How about explaining any of the “ice ages” specifically the “global cooling” that created them and the “global warming” that ended them and which process happened the quickest? Then explain the role humans played.
The infestation timeframe of this planet by humans is inadequate to rely on records. The “ice core” data is impressive but still inadequate. “Scientists” gathering data isn’t “science” it’s gathering data.
No, I cannot explain how gases released significantly beginning in the industrial period caused temperature changes that occurred earlier. You are very confused. Try to get a basic education in logic, science, and geological as well as human history.
@Michael Sulzer-I’m educated enough to know sciencists can never claim 100% certainty. Including the science based experiments that they themselves run from beginning to end. To do so is childish. Again, humans haven’t been on the planet long enough to know what causes the global temperature fluctuations that happened before humans because there are too many variables and no way to reproduce the results from any well worded guess. I’m also educated enough to know that ice core samples going back 300,000 or so years show a number of significant temperature fluctuations, “warming” and “cooling”, at a far more rapid rate than the current “Industrial Age” related “global warming”/temperature fluctuation.
We both agree that we have to live as environmentally clean as humanly possible. It’s possible humans contributed to the current temp fluctuations but to state humans caused it with a certainty is, at this point, unreliable. It will be until every variable is accounted for and completely understood and to do that it will take a lot more resources than there is now.
As for being educated my great grand father immigrated to the US from Italy and he couldn’t read or write English or Italian. He could fix and build anything. He purchased a home, married and raised over 13 kids with no assistance. Another relative of that generation taught herself 9 languages outside any “educational institution”. I consider the knowledge passed from them to me more valuable, more applicable and more efficient, among many other reasons, than the formal education I went through and that is public, private k-university……
How many failures are you responsible for Michael Sulzer?
Obviously the education you think you have leaves you completely unprepared to understand global warming.
Again: how fast is the current temperature rise compared to historical fluctuations, ones not driven by a catastrophic event? Also, why would we need to understand everything about the historical temperature record to know enough to decide that the current rise is man made?
@Michael Sulzer-I believe we desire the same thing……… I hope I’m wrong because if it’s man-damaged it can be man-fixed. But, if it’s not than what is the cause?
I believe there are too many variables to have a high degree of certainty that the hundred and fifty or so years of the human Industrial Age has caused this global temperature rise.
The press is for sale. It used to be more subtle that is all. Now it is in our face. Disgusting.
Maisie wrote a great post below, that begins with the words: “Making the entire issue about climate change is probably the establishment’s way of distracting from the common sense position that it is obviously fatally destructive to befoul one’s nest or home and threaten its ecosystem with pollutants and toxicity.”
This is a point to ponder. We would never run out of enough reasons to protect the environment from ALL threats, so we shouldn’t make “climate change” the end-all be-all. And one “establishment” definitely tried to use the “climate change” argument to fend off attacks on its other problematic aspects: the nuclear power industry.
I see a similar problem, by the way, with putting the entire justification against the Iraq War on whether WMDs were found or not. What if they had been? Would that disastrous war have somehow been justified then? I don’t think so. At the time I opposed it, fully expecting that evidence of WMDs would easily be found anyway. When WMDs were not found, I think people were overeager to found all war opposition on this one point.
Perhaps the media won’t discuss fossil-fueled global warming and fossil fuel air & water & food pollution in the same article, but all the various groups involved do, for example this from the Union of Concerned Scientists:
Note also that the Iraq War ties into the fossil fuel agenda, because it was really a war for oil, as the March 2001 Cheney Energy Task Force maps of Iraqi oil and lists of ‘foreign suitors’ for Iraqi oil indicated.
As far as nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, it was already clear in 2002 that Saddam had none, the UN weapons inspectors involved agreed that those programs (set up with US and British support in the 1980s when Saddam was fighting Iran) had been entirely dismantled in the 1990s, and numerous Iraqi scientists confirmed that. The U.S. media refused to print anything but Bush Administration allegations, which is why so many people swallowed those lies; the NYTimes was probably the key collaborator with the Bush plan to invade Iraq (and note also that at least one NYT board member at the time was also involved with the Carlyle Group).
All this points back to massive media bias in favor of the fossil fuel sector and arms deals, and that’s because the same group of Wall Street investment funds are the top shareholders in those media, fossil fuel and weapons corporations, from Exxon (XOM) and Chevron (CVX) to Lockheed (LMT) and Northrup (NOC) to TimeWarner (TWX) and Disney (DIS) – Blackrock, Fidelity, Vanguard, State Street, Dodge & Cox, Goldman Sachs, etc.
Notice also, that despite Hillary Clinton’s claims about being “concerned about climate change”, all her top bundlers of political donations have long records as lobbyists of working for Wall Street and for fossil fuel corporations:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-bundlers-fossil-fuel_us_55a8335ee4b04740a3df86c5
In particular, this one stands out, and explains Clinton’s reluctance to oppose tar sands:
Over $1.6 million direct into Clinton’s pocket from fossil fuel investors tied to Canadian tar sands – for speeches. Any rational person would call that a bribe. And let’s not forget, Clinton was a big advocate for the Iraq Oil War, too.
I just want to the author that this is a fantastic article. Well written and, uh, informative (in the most horrifying way…). Thank you for creating such a stark contrast to the other “journalists” you met with in this piece.
When these utter imbecilic idiots have to explain to their grandchildren they didn’t do anything and were hired to destroy the planet for the almighty dollar, can say; we did all of this for you and your not-able-to-live children. I was struck that the Trump crowd didn’t talk, at all, about global warming as the #1 or #2 threat facing everybody, instead terrorists and immigrants were painted as immediate threats. I suppose people can see fear, as faces, is far easier than looking more the five minutes into the future for the growing inability to breathe or find water worth drinking. Oh well, I don’t have children to explain all this to and I’m growing old, I just didn’t think this would happen in my lifetime. I guess I was wrong.
Turns out Tim Kaine, Clinton’s VP pick, is a promoter of coal-fired power plants and offshore drilling – more proof that all of Clinton’s claims about ‘climate concerns’ and ‘clean energy’ are nothing but two-faced lies. Trump supports coal, too, but is at least honest about it. Now the only party with a real program for transitioning to renewables is the Green Party.
Yes! It would be worthwhile for anyone who really believes that Clinton is progressive study Kaine’s positions. He claims to be against the death penalty, but allowed eleven executions to proceed while governor of Virginia. He turned a blind eye to the excesses of the NSA, FBI and CIA. As a senator, he has consistently supported the big Wall Street banks, even to the extent of opposing regulation of payday loans.
Clinton has made her real sympathies clear with this choice. Progressives have no ethical choice but to abandon the democrats for once and for all. Go Green!
as a former journalism student that knows how incesteous this industry is, it’s really inspiring to see people doing real work instead of the fluff you normally find.
Go back and read your history. This is exactly the same tactic that was employed by the American Tobacco Institute 50 years ago. They worked to discredit the medical science, cast doubt on the integrity of those raising the alarms and succeeded in delaying effective restraints (which short of banning an addictive poison like tobacco, we still don’t have) for 30+ years.
It’s always said to follow the money. One of the major global warming denier sites is funded by the American Petroleum Institute. It is often quoted but the right-wing nuts as an authoritative source.
If you’re interested in reading about this subject, get James Hoggan’s book “Climate Cover-Up.” He follows the money and shows the parallels in tactics between the tobacco barons 50 years ago who wanted to kill people so they could keep their business model working and the modern day fossil fuel barons who are intent on doing damage on a planetary scale to maintain their businesses.
To Atlantic to subscribers who have watched it drift ever so slowly to the right: Unsubscribe now
“Representatives from all three news organizations told The Intercept that the presence of journalists provided an adequate check on the views of climate-denying congressmen.”
In other words they report things like, “Congressman Garglesprech views global warming as a liberal plot.”
Check! Did my journalistic duty. Now, pass that jumbo shrimp before they all die out.
Sea Levels should be so high by now that NYC should be under water. Sky is falling, sky is falling. Get with the religion folks.
The Washington Post and The Atlantic took the money.
Good, its what the Not A Democrat deserved. He had no place running as a Democrat to begin with. Glad he’s gone back to the assisted living facility know as the Senate.
THIS is exactly the sort of crap that ruins the status of a “news” organization. The more Wash Post and the Atlantic (or any other news outlet) sells its name to commercial interests unrelated to the journalistic business (especially supporting a one-side partisan presentation), the less they are viewed as even-handed and fact-based. And the less relevant they become to converations about the issues.
Follow the money. Or the Power. Always follow one or the other, or both, to find the source of influence.
I saw a short commercial about two weeks ago I still can’t believe actually exists, because I’ve not seen it since and haven’t been able to find it online. My wife was in the room but not paying attention, and though I immediately said something to her she’d missed it.
It was a single concept piece from the Boeing Corporation and the narrator said (paraphrased a bit), “Imagine a constellation of solar collecting satellites ringing the planet and delivering free and abundant energy to everyone.” That struck me very odd – because few things would instantly create greater havoc among oligarchs and world economies than having all energy reserves everywhere, and investments in same, suddenly become worthless.
This ad was so disconcerting it even made me wonder for a moment if maybe extra-terrestrials with superior tech haven’t arrived and everything’s about to radically change on Earth. I mean, one of empire’s top-3 aerospace defense corporations, currently making weapons for global realpolitik resource wars, all of a sudden suggests they can obsolete a major reason for much of the world’s greed, suffering and climate change? WTF?
if you find it somewhere, make copies, get it everywhere. i looked, couldnt find it. someone has it somewhere. THIS IS BIG. “Chain Reaction”
It would be a total disaster! Giving humans free, abundant energy would be like letting toddlers play with grenades.
Look at the mess we’ve made with just relatively cheap
Our only hope for survival is a permanent energy shortage and learning to deal with it. Fortunately(?) the former is nearly inevitable. Unfortunately, the latter is unlikely in the extreme.
We should have listened.
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/Attf/boeing-you-just-wait You’re welcome
Thank you! I must’ve wishfully dreamed the word “free” energy, when what they say is “unlimited.” And holy crap – I missed it the first time I saw this, because I was only listening and looked up just at the end to catch the satellites, but there’s even a few CGI seconds of Arthur C. Clark’s “space elevator” included. 100 years, huh? Ambitous.
Most appreciated!
Go google: ‘Boeing Solar Power Satellites’, and you’ll get a number of related entries, some even on YouTube, including this so-called “Historical Snapshot” re: 1982:-
http://www.boeing.com/history/products/solar-power-satellite.page
While I appreciate the suggestion I still avoid all products Google. I did search though and spent considerable time viewing everything I could find – without success. The production quality and CGI imaging was quite new, and newness could also easily explain its absence from their publicly available archives.
I began writing software for satellite ground systems in ’81, spending the first few years fixing and augmenting assembler language telemetry processing code written in 1963. I’ve got a decent grasp of satellite history, believe me, particularly where major defense contractors are concerned. It’s the last decade or so I’ve not much clue about, but given my background perhaps you can better understand why the advert I described stayed on my mind.
“I mean, one of empire’s top-3 aerospace defense corporations, currently making weapons for global realpolitik resource wars, all of a sudden suggests they can obsolete a major reason for much of the world’s greed, suffering and climate change? WTF?”
I’d be asking myself what exactly are they going to piggy back on those ‘free’ energy sources. Because nobody does ‘free’ when they could just make it look like it’s free but it really wasn’t. What if instead of about the solar panels charging your toothbrush it was all about that full-spectrum dominance. It’s been quite clear for some time that TPTB always have an ace or three up their sleeves. Along the lines of: “Here’s a phone so you can call your partner and play addictive games (and we can monitor your every move.)
That is a rather old idea, which I believe has been around since the late 60s or early 70s. The idea is to build a solar power station in space then beam the energy back to earth in the form of microwaves. It lost favor because of the huge implementation problems that it entails. For instance, the cost of transporting things into space is enormous; you still need huge arrays on the ground to receive the microwave energy; there is an enormous loss of efficiency in converting the solar energy first into electricity, then into microwaves, then back into electricity; there is the problem of distribution once the power is received on earth; and finally there is the health and safety issue of very high RF fields along the path through the atmosphere and in the neighborhood of the ground arrays.
I am sure the ad was one of those feel-good corporate image pieces to convince the public that Boeing is doing great things, rather than a serious proposal. But on the other hand, having dealt once or twice with some of their research branches, I can’t help but be a little uneasy that someone there is actually thinking of such a hair brained scheme. And I am sure there are lots of ignoramuses in Congress who would fund it.
should be quite easy today. Some years back i consulted with an engineer for Hughes. They were thinking of doing internet by satellite. I liked the idea but told them it wasn’t practical at the time, certainly not cost effective. But this sunlight power is a no brainer. Send it down in laser format.
The only real problem is the same as the film “Chain Reaction”. The currency scheme in place wont allow a good “free for all” and wallstreet thieves once again are in the way of real and good progress.
Not really. The high power microwave transmitters needed for transmitting the power back to earth have not changed all that much.
Not a no-brainer. The insolation at the top of the earth’s atmosphere is roughly 1.9 kW/square meter, so for a reasonable sized (1 GW plant) you need about 2.6 million square meters (2.6 square kilometers) assuming a (high) conversion efficiency of 20%. Ask yourself, how much does a solar array that’s roughly one mile on a side weigh, and so, at roughly $1,000 per pound, what would one pay just to put the solar cells in orbit. Then do the calculation of energy conversion from DC to laser or microwave, then back, taking atmospheric path losses into account, to figure how much of that 1 GW would actually be put into the grid. (Oh, speaking of atmospheric path losses, how does the laser scheme work when there are clouds? And, how do you avoid the beam steering and loss problems associated with high power densities? If you can work that out, the SDI people would love to hear from you because despite billions spent on ABM killing lasers, they were never able to figure it out.)
We have on earth vast areas of desert that could be used to site solar farms; more in fact by a large factor than would be necessary to generate 100% of the world’s energy demand using current technology. All that is lacking is the political will and foresight to do so. But that’s the problem, don’t you see? Politicians like most business people cannot see past the next election or quarterly result. They simply do not care about anything beyond that.
You bring up some very good points about the feasibility of it all and a difficulty mitigating risks with current technology, which I’m sure is why my mind took a moment to consider the tech of some sci-fi type visitor as an equally likely possibility.
Here’s a thought though; ever read Arthur C. Clark’s “The Fountains of Paradise?” It’s concept was of a ground-to-geosynch-orbiting-platform “space elevator.” His elevator ran up and down a thin and flexible tape-shaped cable he envisioned would be somehow fabricated from diamonds for super-strength. His first was in Sri Lanka and said it was chosen for being near enough the equator, but I believe it was at least in part because he lived there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountains_of_Paradise
What if – the cable were also of a “superconductor” material and each platform, in addition to each being a mini-space docking station for cargo transfers, housed and maintained the required solar collector wings? No need then for uncontained high-energy microwave or laser transfers? Just a thought. Bonus, it’d eventually mean far less atmospheric pollutants from eliminating most surface to space launch vehicles, even allowing harvested asteroid belt ores to be processed while still in space – only elevator-returning pure metals and crystals, already refined.
But even with flawless engineering – barabbas is also correct any free energy project would face sabotage and roadblocks from those controlling today’s currency schemes, and also those controlling profits off everyone’s energy consumption, often one and the same. And in that regard everyone’s reply to my original comment suggesting it may be promised as “free energy” but never delivered that way is where I’d place my bet, too.
The idea of a system of solar power satellites has been around for decades. Of course there are technical issues with getting the power down to earth safely and efficiently, but I think the real question is this: why spend a huge amount of money to put horribly expensive solar collecting area up in space when the surface of the earth can be used? Oh, wait; maybe spending that money is the reason, at least for some.
Exactly.
Yup. My hangup with the word “free” in the commercial I saw was also the obvious up-front costs being ignored, and how differently from taxpayers defense corporations view OUR Treasury’s annual resources.
Global warming IS based on fraudulent science. More and more scientists fess up to it every year. Even NOAA has admitted that global temperatures haven’t risen in 58 years.
Hi biffula
I am strongly impressed by your comment. Indeed, NOAA is denying global warming….wait….which NOAA? Oh! I am sure you mean that NOAA! Stands for Nonsense lobby group Of Absurd energy company Association. They have bright history of denying anything but money. I am confident that the “NOAA” ‘s data is very accurate to measure human’s greedy level.
If you think those law school graduates can replace scientists…excellent! You have the idea and potential to be one member of the ” NOAA” !
Congrats on your exceptional intelligence level! Your existence made my day!
Sincerely
Tom
Do you just make this shit up or do you base your information on some bogus source you have researched? The debate is over. Your side lost. You are wrong. You will have to admit your error some day or lie to yourself to your grave. Enjoy the heat sucker.
climate changeS
There is plent of dissent… The left will always act like those who don’t agree are ignorant, doesn’t mean they’re right. Satellite temps show consistent temps since the left was pushing global cooling in the 70s. Why do they use antiquated land based temps that in many cases have seen structure growth around them? Because it’s the only data that will show what they want. Why do they have to manipulate the data and add in “model” forecasts? It’s far from settled my UN-objective friend.
“The debate is over.” What debate? and how did it end? You do realize that there’s absolutely no such thing as ‘the science is settled’, right??
Where does this ignorant nonsense come from?
Rocks really do fall from the sky. Land masses really do change dramatically on a geological time scale. And temperatures really do change slowly over time, and really fast when some event causes them to. People are driving that now; there is no denying it.
That “ignorant nonsense” comes rational thought and education. -Why- do rocks fall from the sky? Less is understood about gravity than any of the other 3 forces. Is gravity a wave? Is it a particle? Is it both?? Is that rock objectively real? Do you have any way to prove that?
The science was ‘settled’ when early scientists thought the universe was Earth-centric, then heliocentric….and now here we are, a speck in an expanding bubble of 10^26 stars. The science was ‘settled’ when scientists thought that particles were particles until the double slit experiment.
The point of all this is that very little is known or understood about anything in existence. People have assumptions and assurances that are inevitably broken by further growth and exploration. Few people know how to rationally observe, study, calculate, postulate and theorize.
The climate argument is manipulative myopic nonsense.
First, a clear example to cut through the BS is that NO ONE in either political party has discussed initiatives investing in high temperature superconductor research/development. That alone would revolutionize energy consumption across the board while improving zero emission technology. Solar, wind, et al investing simply sets up more inefficient bureaucratic cash cows that distract from actual innovation.
Second -oil, gas, coal, etc. equals geopolitical gold in a world where dominance is paramount. No ruler (King, Queen, President, Prime Minister, etc.) is going to voluntarily undercut their ability to influence the global market and maintain power. The climate discussion is a political means to rally ignorant voters and amass more wealth and power to governments through taxation and penalty…all while subverting the very reality of escaping such dependence on energy production. The goal of powerful governments has never been to improve our environment…even as they lie through their teeth to swear otherwise. Energy independence is antithetical to global power.
Third – climate, environments, and species aren’t static. It’s absurd to argue for stasis, rather than innovation.
Fourth – The ability to assess the degree to which we can measure humans’ influence the Earth’s climate is woefully misstated. The largest producers of these atmospheric gases are volcanos and bacteria. There are no good ways of measuring the totality of either. We have inadequate tools and scope, yet you’re willing to assuredly state that “people are driving that now; there is no denying it.” That’s absurd.
Batteries may have been around for 200 years, but it should be obvious to everyone that they are an inadequate storage solution. If they had been adequate, we would never have seen internal combustion engines. Porsche was winning races with electric cars before there was mass production of fossil fuel powered cars. The bottleneck is still storage, and fossil fuels will be in use until that problem is solved. Also, India will still be digging a new coal mine every month until that time.
Hi sir.
You’re entirely right. To this day batteries still aren’t an adequate means to store energy on a large scale.
I think the article came short on mentioning other storage alternatives. For instance, right now, thermal energy can be stored much more easily than electrical (or chemical) energy. Modern thermal solar powerplants store solar energy in the form of heat in oils or molten salt mixtures and then use it to produce pressurized steam that drive traditionnal thermodynamic cycles for electricity production.
Look up the Gemasolar project. That’s just one of many. I believe the last update was that they managed to produce at nominal power output for an uninterrupted 31 days streak. There are similar projects in the US. But the point is tha there are definitely functionnal ways to work around the sun “going down”.
I sympathize with the organizers of the Republican convention. I too, recently tried to find an environmentalist and was similarly unsuccessful. I feared that environmentalists, who may be particularly sensitive to heat, might have been killed off by global warming. Fortunately, I discovered this was not the case; environmentalists are still alive and complaining. But since the US State Department placed them on the terrorist list, they have been in hiding.
While I have a healthy fear of rising sea levels, I also believe this may be an opportunity for the United States. Hopefully, the US government will have the foresight to preserve samples of Michael Phelps’ DNA; it may provide a decisive competitive advantage in a submerged world. I’m also doing what I can personally – putting in extra sessions at the pool and stocking up on ice.
Good one!
Good thinking. Myself, i am going to consider one of the several ships “lost at sea” which offer condos from $1.5M – quite a deal. Only problem is the currency for the condo fee when the planet begins the mini-nuke war – a try before you fry program which seems a spark in a leaking gasoline storage tank facility. Of course one would need an extra matress or if the currency demand is gold, i would shape and paint them to be dumbell weights. Right now i am going to check out a high test fishing line, a mercury testing kit and a geiger counter.
I realize that some people won’t be as prepared as I am for global warming. Or they may not have a spare $1.5M to purchase a floating condo. So as a public spirited gesture, I am binding my feet in order to reduce my carbon footprint. I’ve gone from a size 10, down to a size 8. I challenge everyone else to match this.
To achieve a size 8, we must commit to a size 7.
oddly, foot binding was an ancient practice upon young chinese girls to prevent them from growing.
19 Photos Of The Last Surviving Chinese Women With Bound Feet
http://www.buzzfeed.com/hayleycampbell/lotus-feet – Cached – Similar
Jun 19, 2015 … British photographer Jo Farrell is documenting a tradition that is dying out with China’s oldest women: foot binding. The process of binding feet (also known as “lotus feet”) started before the arch had a chance to fully develop – somewhere between the ages of 4 and 9.
i suppose one might also breathe less often.
The World’s Dirtiest River
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr5PYFgXnYM
The world affairs series returns for a new run, starting in Indonesia, home to the planet’s most polluted river and a textile industry supplying some of the world’s biggest fashion brands.
Thats what I call the sixth estate. When the news is bought and paid for as easily as a politician, might as well kiss our asses goodbye to democracy.
#22 What if we change – Oil In Our Waters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPE4wAvp28c
Between 70-210 million gallons of waste oil are illegally dumped at sea by commercial ships each year. In fish, marine oil pollution is linked to cancers, tumors, reduced growth rates, genetic side effects, and death. It is also toxic to seabirds and marine mammals including whales, sea otters, and dolphins. The film “Oil in Our Waters” exposes this practice. Film director Micah Fink shares his findings with Earth Focus and explains new ways citizens can now help stop illegal oil dumping. An Earth Focus special report produced in collaboration with Common Good Productions and the Pulitzer Center for Crisis Reporting.
Stop International Commerce…trade.
Live with less…
Buy local…
Oil is naturally bubbling up from under the ocean. It’s a natural phenomenon.
The ocean just absorbs the oil, as it has always done.
Don’t tell me you believe in the Great Garbage Patch, the big hoax about the garbage in the ocean… twice the size of Texas. Omg, google the Great Garbage Patch hoax, even Snopes rates it false.
Just like the hysteria about AGW, the rhetoric is beyond silly.
Hey maroon Troll,
Nice try.
But thanks for suggesting the Snopes article. What they rated false was the specific claim that the size of the Garbage Patch is some specific huge size. They point out that the size of the Garbage Patch, which definitely exists, is very hard to measure.
i have seen it
no kidding…..
so the questions is, why are morons in charge of anything.
The use of the guillotine is appropriate here more so than it ever has been in history. The big oil people should be taken there only after all those they bought in the likes of the media, judges and politicians have been be-headed in front of the demonic oil profiteers in-order to prolong their anguish. After all they destroyed the future of our children and grandchildren.
No, crooked politicians that have run U.S. debt up to 20 trillion dollars are who have ruined generations not yet born future.
I see the “flat earth”/climate change believers, will start the Inquisition soon, if you don’t follow their religion.
Flat earth = climate change belivers?
What are you a conservitive right wing talk radio host paid to lie, distract or set up the next big lie?
maroon is just a troll, probably a paid troll. That makes him or her a professional liar. Big lies, small lies. And all kinds of distraction from those trolls, then more lies.
http://water.nature.org/liquidcourage/
While 70% of the world is covered by water, less than 1% of it is accessible and drinkable.
6.6 million gallons [25 million liters] of water are needed to drill one fracking well.
To Sparrow:
Satan wins in so many ways.
The fracking video I listed below was made in 2013. I have a good idea that Brexit may have been one of the reasons UK citizens are fighting back to stop the destruction of Britain. Fracking has become a global disaster. A fracking map of the world is on the video and it is mind blowing. The more we educate with the truth…the more we can hopefully bring a moratorium to stop it. I don’t vote…but if I did it would be Jill Stein, the only sanity thinking about the environment.
http://www.fractracker.org/2015/08/1-7-million-wells/
1.7 wells in the US – A 2015 update
correction above..
1.7 MILLION wells in the US
#21 What if we change – Fracking The World
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUyr08XNqVA
US domestic gas production is on the rise because of hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, a controversial method of extracting natural gas from shale rock by pumping millions of gallons of water mixed with sand and chemicals underground at high pressure. Environmentalists say this gas boon threatens water supplies and pollutes air. Now, as fracking expands around the world, so does growing resistance. This film focuses on three countries on the new fracking frontline: South Africa, Poland, and the UK.
Related to that – Mother Jones: How Hillary Clinton’s State Department Sold Fracking to the World
Thank you Maisie…
[“One icy morning in February 2012, Hillary Clinton’s plane touched down in the Bulgarian capital, Sofia, which was just digging out from a fierce blizzard. Wrapped in a thick coat, the secretary of state descended the stairs to the snow-covered tarmac, where she and her aides piled into a motorcade bound for the presidential palace. That afternoon, they huddled with Bulgarian leaders, including Prime Minister Boyko Borissov, discussing everything from Syria’s bloody civil war to their joint search for loose nukes. But the focus of the talks was fracking. The previous year, Bulgaria had signed a five-year, $68 million deal, granting US oil giant Chevron millions of acres in shale gas concessions. Bulgarians were outraged. Shortly before Clinton arrived, tens of thousands of protesters poured into the streets carrying placards that read “Stop fracking with our water” and “Chevron go home.” Bulgaria’s parliament responded by voting overwhelmingly for a fracking moratorium.”]…
It’s amazing to me how American arrogance can nonchalantly go and come and move around sovereign nations and dictate their ultimate destruction against the will of the people…without one notion of a disgruntled sniper among those people nor the ultimate possibility of retaliation of the people against their government. WHICH by the way should happen here first.
to add…
[“Under her leadership, the State Department worked closely with energy companies to spread fracking around the globe—part of a broader push to fight climate change, boost global energy supply, and undercut the power of adversaries such as Russia that use their energy resources as a cudgel.”]
The sad truth is…Global warming is caused by a multitude of man-made reasons, and these scumbag elites are twisting it around to serve their own purposes…ignoring data and relevant outcomes of blow back. (Which are the very purposes that are causing global warming.) My question is…globally WHERE do these tyrants think they can live when they have caused the demise of the planet?
(continuing from above article sited by Maisie)…
…”[Clinton, who was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, believed that shale gas could help rewrite global energy politics. “This is a moment of profound change,” she later told a crowd at Georgetown University. “Countries that used to depend on others for their energy are now producers. How will this shape world events? Who will benefit, and who will not?…The answers to these questions are being written right now, and we intend to play a major role.” Clinton tapped a lawyer named David Goldwyn as her special envoy for international energy affairs; his charge was “to elevate energy diplomacy as a key function of US foreign policy.”
“Countries that used to depend on others for their energy are now producers,” said Clinton. “How will this shape world events? Who will benefit?…The answers to these questions are being written right now, and we intend to play a major role.”
Goldwyn had a long history of promoting drilling overseas—both as a Department of Energy official under Bill Clinton and as a representative of the oil industry. From 2005 to 2009 he directed the US-Libya Business Association, an organization funded primarily by US oil companies—including Chevron, Exxon Mobil, and Marathon—clamoring to tap Libya’s abundant supply. Goldwyn lobbied Congress for pro-Libyan policies and even battled legislation that would have allowed families of the Lockerbie bombing victims to sue the Libyan government for its alleged role in the attack….”]
And NOW we all know the outcome of that on October 20, 2011 with the brutal despicable assassination of Gadhafi. War Crimes are an understatement for Clinton and her AIPAC revenge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGm492qVEzA (WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO)
As boastfully quoted by ABC News Jeffery Kofman, “Good Morning George, this is a Libya that for the first time in 42 years does not have to live in fear of Moammar Gadhafi…he is gone for good. And few if any are mourning his passing…”
This is what American citizens need to rise up against. The real terrorists of the USA/CIA/AIPAC/MOSSAD/ISRAEL.
This is an Onion like satire bit, right? Please, say it’s satire….
What is a frelling climate denier?……Sorry to point out your propaganda agenda.
Making the entire issue about climate change is probably the establishment’s way of distracting from the common sense position that it is obviously fatally destructive to befoul one’s nest or home and threaten its ecosystem with pollutants and toxicity. You can see from the discussions even here that the duopoly itself is represented well by the pantomime responses (“Climate change is man-made” “Oh no it isn’t”), and the actual self-evidently dire nature of over-pollution and resource-stripping is submerged in a simple binary decision to accept or not accept science’s descriptions of just one of the symptoms of institutionalized planet-ravaging. There is too much propagandistic mind-direction to this exclusive dualism for it not to be suspicious.
Looking back at activists in the past, protesting against toxicity and resource-stripping was enough to motivate, and it remains a compelling argument because the wrongness can not be denied. Going into arguments with ‘climate deniers’ while both major parties do nothing substantially about any planet-ravaging is to be largely sidetracked into a distraction that amounts to just wheel-spinning in terms of activism that might halt the highly dangerous amount of pollution occurring.
Not really. AGW is the ultimate nest fouling, and so if it is not countered with lies, the continued increasing wealth of some very rich and powerful people is under threat. So let’s not confuse the issue.
Certainly it should be stressed, but I think it’s unnecessarily reductive, as it seems to have become the only matter of debate, the only em>vocabulary of the discussion on both sides.
I don’t think people make it the entire issue; for example diesel fuel use has a drastic effect on childhood asthma around freeways; air pollution around oil refineries is linked to cancer clusters; mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants pollute lakes and rivers and end up in fish; and so on.
This is also a good point for countering the ‘it’s going to happen anyway’ argument about global warming, i.e. that “the planet is going to warm up for the next century due to past fossil fuel emissions, so why bother doing anything?”
The huge positive benefits of cleaning up non-CO2 fossil fuel pollution – i.e. the particulates, the smog, the PAHs and so on, should always be included in any discussion of fossil fuel issues. If we include the issue of environmental racism, i.e. how the most polluting fossil fuel industries always seem to end up situated in poor and minority communities, then it also brings in a lot more popular support for rapid changes.
You must talk to more informed people than I! The only time I usually hear those subjects raised are by the few activist environmentalists I’ve read and of course those of us in the Green Party – most of whom I know only online. The rest of everyday folk (by far the majority I meet at school etc.) seem just yea or nay on man-made climate change. But your response is encouraging, so thanks for that.
The all too visible effects of climate change is a point of contention because the wallstreet requirement for growth would have to come to an end when people realize these criminals are running a currency ponzi on the planet.
I have been doing weather for 50 years. Climate Change is total BS!
The earth has been slowly warming for the last 14k years since the last Ice age.
We are still in an Ice Age (year round Ice at the polls).
Loons, keep harping about extremely slight temperature changes,that are mostly instrument error.
Go to NASA and “do weather” there show those fools how brilliant you are, pathetic.
Hey, I have some wonderful coastal property in Florida for sale, a nice retirement property and a future home for your grandchildren. . .
Well, actually, it’s going to be underwater, but on the bright side, more habitat for fish and waterfowl?
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/02/climate-change-economics/florida-coast-map
It probably will eventually be underwater. Just look at the topo maps of the Oceans. Sea level use to be 400 ft lower, end of an Ice age has consequences.
It’s a bit of a mystery to me why that is so. I mean, in medieval Holland they managed to reclaim huge amounts of land from the sea. So why do we cede half of Louisiana to the ocean without firing a shot?
I know, I might as well ask why Puerto Rico is completely 100% overrun by Zika while America doesn’t even care, let alone muster a response … while Cuba remains free of domestic transmission of the virus due to an aggressive response whenever it appears.
If they’d spent a few billion to prepare for Hurricane Katrina , reinforcing the levees, (and scientists and engineers had been warning for years about the effects of a direct hit on New Orleans) then $50 billion in damages would have been avoided.
But, if we build infrastructure to prepare for global warming-related events than we have to admit that fossil fueled global warming is a real problem – Catch-22.
There was a documentary on this; it blamed army corps for basically two reasons: Mr Go and the fact the corps got rid of most engineers. Said there was a paper in house about what could happen as a result of mrgo, but big gov and all that fucking paperwork…
With this in mind do we believe gov can solve climate prob … I don’t
They have another surprise for any one who looks like they are getting out front on this. At 200 yrs. a tiny 40 grain sphere traveling at 4,000 ft per second will follow a red laser dot into a projecting slope into the universe and that thought will vanish. Do you really think liquid gold will vanish. ?We will , but it will be on earth Forever with those who have it will guard it . Green party my ass Stop Smoking Colorado Gold.
Ah, but it is not getting warmer slowly anymore! But I love your name; 0 visibility fog is exactly what you are in, that is, unless you are a paid provocateur trying to put every in that state.
Instrument error, indeed!
Climate change is obviously not BS, even you say that the world is warming up. You can’t have it both ways. Either climate is changing or it’s not. The point is we have contributed to speeding the process up and we could stop doing that. Even if you don’t believe that, I take issue with the fact that human beings feel it’s just fine and dandy to trash the planet and pollute the earth, the water, the skies for an immediate-gratification-fix. So irresponsible and careless.
You claim you report the weather? I could *report* the weather. At least I know the difference between weather & climate.
How are you this dumb? Seriously, how has natural selection not dealt with you yet?
“How are you this dumb? Seriously, how has natural selection not dealt with you yet?”
Obviously, there’s some built-in lag time with natural selection.
Childish berating does not equal intelligence. Refute the assertion, not the man.
Refuting the Flat Earth Society is a waste of time and energy; ridicule is more appropriate. Dealing with climate denialists is like dealing with people who claim that if you flap your arms really hard, you’ll be able fly, so jumping off cliffs is no big deal.
If you believe that nonsense, then you’re contributing to the intellectual decay that’s paralyzing future growth. Ridicule is for children.
There are a dozen excellent universities within minutes of Washington, D.C. and many more in and around NYC. Museums with experienced and educated staff, the Smithsonian, and the National Science Foundation. If the Atlantic’s organizer really wanted a knowledgeable scientist to refute the API hogwash, they wouldn’t have to look hard. Perhaps they need to expand their Rolodex beyond their frat brothers and social media.
A few years ago, National Geographic has an issue with computer generated maps of what the world looked like 100,000-300,000 years ago. The area of land that is the United States was completely split in half, the middle states covered under many feet of water. Most of the coastal states were submerged under sea to the mountain ranges closest to the coasts and with the exception of the Northwestern most part, Florida was gone, completely submerged under 20-40 feet of sea. Ironically, or tragically for someone who worked at NG, a few dozen pages past these maps was an article about the IPCC report, the body of the article claiming man was responsible for the impending Armageddon. Confused, I flipped pages back to the maps to make sure I had comprehended correctly. I then flipped back to the article about Climate Change to read it again. The maps and the article were in complete contradiction, and it was that very moment when I began doing more research. What I found in that the IPCC report is severely flawed. The computer models used by the IPCC scientists were, admittedly, flawed. The “97% consensus” is in fact a consensus among IPCC scientists, not the entire scientific community as has been widely reported. The IPCC report was politically motivated. This warming cycle is normal, has happened in the past and will happen again with no help or assistance from man. It’s a solar occurrence that can not be stopped, although remediation of coastal communities will nonetheless be necessary. But most discouraging, if not disgusting, is learning that carbon credit trading on Wall street will be the next big wealth building bubble to the tune of $2 Trillion dollars annually, at a cost to the middle class and poor, worldwide.
Yep. There’s a book entitled unstoppable warming every 1500 years. Like seasons there’s bigger ones. Seems reasonable.
So glad you are here, you apparently know more than most scientists but, one would wonder that with your massive intellect and research abilities you do not publish a well researched paper or join panels instead of being an anonymous poster in the comment section. I mean you could make fools of all those people at NASA. Yeah its sarcasm since I am still amazed of the permeation of ignorance in this country.
Indeed there are recognized and in recignized cycles and oscillations within nature, an analogous example is health. Yes, we will all get sick and die. But if you have a disease do you repeatedly do all the worst things and behaviors to increase rapid morbidity? That is why it is called Anthropomorphic Climate Disruption to include many things and when tons and tons and more zillion tons of ppm increase THAT HAS TO HAVE SOME EFFECT. How you can be so sure it ONLY the sun? You have the certainty of someone who fuels up at chevronexxo and pays $4,000 to $8,000 more by the time your pov reaches a hundred thousand miles. And if you drive a chevy like me– good gor three hundred at least, wow, that is $12,000 to $24,000 you will pay more to them. But i guess they did not tell you that?
Well, what nonsense! It is a fact that it is getting warmer, and so quickly that a special explanation is required, and the only thing catastrophic enough is changes brought about by us.
But, of course, YOU are not politically motivated.
I’m a life long Liberal Democrat, Bernie Sanders supporter. Is that political motivation enough for you? I don’t believe in MAN MADE global warming, I believe it’s a natural cycle. I also know we are still in an last ice age. AS in all ice ages there are long periods of warming when sea ice retreats, and long periods of cooling when sea ice expands. Remember the 70’s? Maybe not. We were in a long period of cooling, record lows all over the planet. Scientists predicted we’re be covered in ice by the 90’s if the trend contented. Now we are dealing with the opposite extreme. Okay?
“Scientists predicted we’re be covered in ice by the 90’s if the trend contented.”
No. They. Didn’t.
Okay?
Being a life-long liberal democrat no more qualifies you to make an intelligent, reality-based decision on a technical subject than being a life-long conservative republican. Nature has nothing whatsoever to do with politics or beliefs; in fact most belief systems involve suspension of reality to some degree.
I am not criticizing beliefs or belief systems. One simply has to put them aside when considering factual matters, because otherwise they will interfere with the logical process.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Interior_Seaway – that sea was more like 100 million years ago. The inland elevations are much too high to allow that to return in this geologic era, even with the sea level rise over the next few centuries.
Wow. You’ve even swallowed the sunspot nonsense.
Confused, indeed. Fractal wrongness.
This just proves that America’s mainstream media panders to fossil fuel sycophants. Adding the total IQ together of this collective group gives you a negative number. This just shows you that money can buy the collective stupidity of those who care nothing about our future.
At first I was outraged (long time Atlantic Subscriber) but after reading the article, I realized I needed to know our elected officials outlooks, and the convention seems to have emboldened a lot of folks to spout what I consider to be stupid remarks.
What shoddy reporting. When you say “denier” you should really say “someone who is not spreading the climate change hoax”.
You are denying the veracity of the claims by the IPCC. That makes you a denier. Deal with it.
This is not aphilosophical challenge but the facts stand, like your radiography shows a cavity in threee of your teeth!
Try selling that to the mayor of South Miami, who will show you how salt water is pouring out onto the streets on sunny days.
Please report on the largest cause of climate change – animal sagriculture – the industry which is responsible for a whopping 51% of greenhouse gas emissions and just as relentless with their lies, lobbying and distortions. It makes the fossil fuel industry look like child’s play by comparison.
Thank you.
Became vegan for that reason. Still occasionally drive a rental car or take an airplane, albeit at 20% of my hight of consumption.
I am wondering where on earth you got your 51% number; it simply cannot be right. For instance, natural gas production in the US is the largest source of methane emissions, and agriculture comes in 2nd with around 21%. And as far as CO2 production is concerned, raising animals produces a trivial amount.
Here you go, I’ve used Google on your behalf to find peer reviewed evidence to support the 51% figure. It’s amazing how easy research is once one gets their head out their ass and admits they may not know enough about something.
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294
Very, very disappointing. How can WP & POLITICO be told that public trust is more important than BIG OILs cash???
2 items this week –
Eastern Hemisphere’s All-Time Temperature Record: Kuwait Fries in 54°C (129.2°F) Heat
https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=3360#commenttop
Scores of City-Sized Siberian Wildfires Spew 2,500 Mile-Long Plume of Smoke Over Northern Hemisphere
Today’s satellite pass by NASA’s LANCE MODIS array tells a dire story that practically no one in the global mainstream media is talking about. Northern and Central Siberia is burning. Scores of massive fires, some the size of cities and small states, are throwing off a great pall of smoke 2,500 miles long.
https://robertscribbler.com/2016/07/18/scores-of-city-sized-siberian-wildfires-spew-2500-mile-long-plume-of-smoke-over-northern-hemisphere/
Thanks for the links. And this also shows the critical need for infrastructure creation all across the United States (and around the world). Even with a rapid transition to renewable energy, we are going to have to retreat from low-lying coastal areas, and from flood plains in some areas, and we will have to have water strategies to deal with what are becoming permament drought regimes in other areas.
This is really why the U.S. has to chop the foreign military budget and end the war-for-oil game; the world’s nations can’t afford to be at war with each other when the planet itself is going to war against human civilization, more or less.
The kind of refugee crisis we’ve seen already actually has a climate component; the huge Syrian drought 2006-2011 played a big role in filling Syrian cities with out-of-work farmers; the conflict in South Sudan is being increased by drought across sub-Saharan Africa, and that’s feeding the North African refugee flood into Europe; and as sea levels rise essentially the entire nation of Bangladesh will have to move into India, which is already crowded with people.
If the world doesn’t get busy preparing for these climate changes, and switching over to renewables to limit them, then the ultimate outcome will be genocidal warfare that will be at least as bad (probably much worse) than anything seen in World War II.
What if you knew for a fact that after you die you return as a human somewhere on this planet, that the soul of life recycles. How could it not recycle?
THINK!
Unless you ate animals during your life and didn’t go vegan before your death – then you’re reincarnated into a life of pain and misery as a “farm animal”. Share and enjoy!
I’m not convinced as Alex, imputes, that there’s necessarily a quid pro quo implied or expressed by the Atlantic’s talks, to misrepresent the reality of American energy policy.
The press does have an interest -if not duty- to foster civil critical conversation. They have a pretty big job in discerning a range of political, scientific, and environmental issues, as well as to discern honest and dishonest actors in both legislatures and industry.
When the EPA declares that fracking isn’t a pollution threat to water sources I can cynically conclude that they’re in the pockets of the industry; or I can trust it. Of course I’ll go look up articles in the Scientific American or seek out critical documentaries.
The Petroleum Institute has absolutely committed egregious fraud in obfuscating the science of global warming (see Merchants of Doubt), however, I still expect the press to do their homework and not just be a cheer leader for whatever side I believe I’m on.
I’m convinced there’s a quid pro quo. The Atlantic, etc. get a lot of money in exchange for easier-than-softball “forums” which are essentially hosted by the organizations that the forum is supposedly organized to examine.
money in politics, proppaganda, lies, it all goes together in the same pot and boils down to sold out souls for the sacrifice of the lives of others. It’s a recipe for a dead planet so the rulemakers can suck their sugery lollipops.
https://youtu.be/KsacawRiEVs
Retailers set aside part of the price of every purchase to pay their landlord rent on storefront. Why not to pay every citizen with lungs rent on the part of air that returns fossil carbon underground?
Try the PIE:
+ Privatize fossil waste disposal at a Market price (determined by the Law of Supply and Demand), with revenues paid to each citizen with lungs, as a way to send a price signal for fossil intensity. This is definitely not your grandmother’s carbon tax. In North America, the British Columbia Revenue Neutral Carbon Tax Act and the Whitehouse-Schatz American Opportunity Carbon Fee Bill are a good start in that direction, but they don’t use the natural power of the Market. If government won’t see this as much its duty as administering weights and measures, then do it yourself by telling those who sell to you that you only buy from those who have paid their CO2 debt by offsets; it’s not the ideal of charging real Market rents, but eventually we will get there one step at a time.
+ Indict those racketeers whose payments to obscure, perjure and lie about fossil waste liability to stakeholders are provable in court, diluting the fossil carbon price signal. If your government won’t do it, then get a class action going to balance the unfairness we all feel. Let the Law of Supply and Demand determine the price, not some lying liar.
+ End subsidy to fossil, that the Market might choose the winners by price signal by the Law of Supply and Demand, not the donors of elected officials. We need no subsidizer or supporter of tax deferrals for fossil.
The sun doesn’t go down the Earth Spins – the Sun shines all the time.
Of course the fossil fuel industry and their bought friends continue to attempt to create the pretense of a debate on the climate science, when in reality, no real debate exists. Their strategy is to deny and delay as long as possible. There is no time left to dither on this issue. The fossil fuel interests can lawyer up all they want, but they will be punished for their fraud.
It’s time for everyone to tell the truth. The science is settled. The climate has changed so much we have entered a new geological Epoch.
Life is going to change for people on Earth due to our fossil fuel extraction and combustion, the only question is how much. It doesn’t matter whether no one or everyone believes in it. It is a fact. Americans love for fossil fuels is a feeling which has no bearing on the amount of damage we will suffer in the coming decades. Smart prompt action could minimize the damage, if we did it now.
No such thing as settled science.
So solar doesn’t work because the sun goes down. Couldn’t prove it by me. I have had solar for 12 years now. It provides all my electricity and paid itself off 4-5 years ago, saving me about $3000 a year on electric bills.
I just had a discussion with my doctor this morning who told me he was having solar panels installed on his new house. He said that after doing all the research, he was pretty convinced that for every dollar he puts into the cost of the panels, he looks to be getting 4-5 dollars back out in savings. We live here in Vancouver, and even though our weather is mild, we actually have as much sunshine (brightness) as Miami, and it turns out, that’s the thing that counts where these panels are concerned. My doctor’s a fair amount younger than myself, and in many ways, a lot more intelligent. He didn’t rush into this, but did the research, and I think his decision is a sound one. These are new times we live in, and we can’t keep living the same old way. If your election cycle this year has worried me for any reason, it’s because when your people were offered a chance at trying something new, too many of them appear to have decided to stay with the same tired old thing. Well, it didn’t work so well then, and you know what they say about trying the same thing (that fails) again and again…
I have a solar water heating system. The three panels are 6×4 each. The cost was $8000, installed. It will take us 13 years just to break even. Very disappointed in the “savings”. Wouldn’t do it again, for sure. A solar system uses more electricity than you would think.
ellie – not sure how you got suckered into such an overpriced system. Many people pay much less. Maybe you live in a state where there are no incentives paid for solar? Did you buy it years ago before prices dropped? Also, solar systems don’t use electricity–they make it, and store it.
Yes. We installed it on a new build in 2006, still relatively new technology at the time. Large home, 3200 sq Ft, large tank to accommodate 4 bathrooms and a family of 6. I’m quite sure the panels are smaller now. There is a pump attached to our the system, small 2hp, that circulates the water to the tank (?)…not sure how it works. But, our tank is not solar and plugs into an outlet like any other. Because of their size, the hardest time we had was with placement of the panels. They had to be “hidden from view” from the main road of our subdivision. A big worry is having them fly off the roof during a hurricane. Could cause some serious damage if they become projectiles. Thankfully we haven’t had a hurricane since 2005.
Great article, and a fascinating perspective on human greed, which proves that money now is even more important than the future of your offspring.
If you seriously want to follow what is happening with global warming in a graphically intuitive format without political bias see wattsupwiththat.com.
They provide an update on the rate of withdraw of the the artic ice field. They are having a glitch now that requires you to click on the graphs to get up to the moment data. I watch this data, http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/icecover/icecover_current_new.png , which shows the arctic ice sheet withdraw nicely. The gray band indicates the historical ice field within a 95% confidence level. Each of the last 4.5 years in a row has had less ice by ~1.5 million square kilometers. This year the month of May probably has the lowest ice on record. So check this out and watch the “progress”.
For Trump RePugs and HRC DemoRats more interested in money than the future of the planet, this data may suggest great investment opportunities in properties that are trending to convert from ice to habitable land so that you can further profit from global warming.
Wattsupwiththat is a horribly biased, anti climate change crowd. Nearly complete “deniers”.
J, I use the site for the data pages only. Those appear to have varied science based sources and in general paint a picture that supports global warming theory from what I have seen. Do you think the data is not objective or is cherry picked, and if so what other data would you steer me to? I just read their “about” page and web site originator does say he is “green” but does has disagreements with some climate issues. That’s vague but I might be in the same camp. As far as I have determined man-made global warming is 99.9% settled as real, but the rate at which it will progress is not settled. I like following the Arctic Ice Extent as the canary in the coalmine. But when people make claims about this or that happening in the next 10 years they are speculating. It is too complex, but IMO important enough to make sensible changes now!
The Republicans deny climate change. The Democrats do not. This is ultimately a cosmetic difference, however, since neither Party will actually do anything substantial about fossil fuel dependency or the military (the unnecessary spread of which has a carbon footprint the size of a small country all by itself).
Don’t believe the establishment – either “side.” They are owned by the very forces stupidly raping the Earth and destroying the ecosystem.
For the planet, vote for Jill Stein.
“I could have been more robust, and said ‘are you an idiot, do you not understand science?’ I did that in my own way, without being completely offensive.””
We’re long overdue to be consistently offensive against the factions destroying our planet. The fact that Clemons doesn’t want to be speaks volumes.
Exactly.
“The sun goes down” is indeed a valid complaint – while batteries exist, they are indeed expensive. Full solar solutions certainly exist but they are not as cheap as peak solar power. This is a problem to be faced and solved (see “liquid phase batteries”) rather than ignored; otherwise the oil lobby really does win.
I agree that “cap and trade” should be viewed with utmost suspicion. It is a great solution if you’re a rich industrialist who can buy up dirty old plants in the Third World that have been chugging along, at least on paper, solely to keep putting out vast amounts of pollution so that their owners could receive the right to pollute that much forever for free as part of a plan to privatize and hand off the right to burn to the rich. It’s not such a great solution if you want to light a Yule log and you’re left begging some retail broker for the right at a hundred times the price they paid for it, which is what’s coming.
Revenue Neutral Carbon Fee and Dividend is the answer. Let market forces work. Let people decide how to spend their dividend. Let people decide how best to reduce their carbon fees. Do not underestimate the intelligence of the people (regardless of what you saw at the RNC). I want my dividends and I will use them to reduce my carbon footprint even further. Sustainable living will be financially rewarded.
“But it is a new low for major media groups to sell their brand to lobbyists and let climate truthers go unchallenged.”
If it’s a “new low” to only give voice to one side of the story, what is The Intercept? Do we get both sides of the story here, Alex? Is your employer reaching a new low for publishing your one-sided story?
If The Intercept created a global warming forum, what are the chances that climate deniers would get an invite and equal time?
“But as revenue from traditional advertising has declined, newsrooms have been finding new ways to drive revenue from sponsors.”
The Intercept is funded by somebody with an agenda just like The Atlantic.
Both sides of the story? Sure. You know, there’s this University of California Professor, Peter Duisberg, who claims HIV doesn’t cause AIDS. He got some support from the blood products industry in the early 1980s (who were facing lawsuits over HIV-contaminated blood products) but that’s all gone now.
So why don’t we see “both sides of the story” in every media article covering the HIV/AIDS epidemic, charlie?
Answer: there’s no big corporate interest involved who wants to promote a line of bullshit to protect its interests; if there was we can be sure Peter Duisberg would get a bullhorn, just like dishonest scientists who work for the fossil fuel lobby do – your Willie Soons, Richard Lindzens, etc.
The fossil fuel climate denialist campaign has gone the same way as the tobbaco cancer denialist campaign; so just get over it.
“So why don’t we see “both sides of the story” in every media article covering the HIV/AIDS epidemic, charlie?”
You have no problem questioning my logic. You just have a problem questioning logic that you accept as truth. You know what? That’s okay brother. Not everybody is capable of questioning everything.
But let me help: Alex Emmons is the one who said not reporting both sides is bad, not me. I was challenging his logic.
There are no “sides” on this issue. There is real climate science and there is fraud and willful ignorance. The story here is that the fraud and willful ignorance went unanswered at these pretend informational panel discussions. That is a disgrace.
Well stated photosymbiosis!
There is no other side. I suspect you actually believe that there is, though.
Feel free to suspect whatever you desire but that does not make it true. If it’s okay to tell one side of the story here, than it’s okay for those unlike us to do the same thing.
Ah, yes…C33333 still believes that 2+2=5, but will compromise with an amswer of 4 1/2.
That is super original Nete. I have not heard you say that 100 times previously.
If it’s okay to tell one side of the story here, than it’s okay for those unlike us to do the same thing.
So you really believe that everything has two sides worth equal time. You are blind.
This article is a joke for two reasons. One, huge investment banks are pushing for cap and trade and the mime that global warming is settled science. This article says nothing about the trillion dollar carbon trading floor in Chicago that the financial oligarchy wants to set up:
“Goldman started pushing hard for cap-and-trade long ago, but things really ramped up last year when the firm spent $3.5 million to lobby climate issues. ”
– Matt Taibbi
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405
The second foolish aspect of this article is that it calls people ‘deniers’ who do not believe that long-term predictions of climate, based on regression and time-series techniques are ‘settled science.’ I am not denying anything, I just happen to understand basic predictive statistics. Statistical methods of prediction on chaotic systems are not designed to be ‘settled science’ any more than a statistical model of future GDP is settled science.
How does your first point contradict anything of significance in the article?
As for your second point, you are just throwing out a few terms you expect most people to understand little about. You either do not understand the science at all or are lying.
Cap-and-trade is a joke, yes. It was originally implemented to get sulfur out of diesel fuel, but the dirty sulfur-laden fuel was moved over to the global shipping industry, and the ‘clean’ (hardly) diesel fuel was burned in cities and freeways, where it causes lots of childhood asthma. With fossil fuels, it has just become a scam manipulated by Goldman Sachs and others to boost profits; selling ’emission credits’ is as shady a program as selling bundled adjustable rate mortgages.
Goldmans Sachs, at the same time, is a top global trader in fossil fuels, which makes Hillary Clinton’s rhetoric on clean energy and climate utterly unbelievable. She really is nothing but a two-faced lying con artist; although Trump’s pro-coal support is incredibly stupid and sure to be an economic and environmental debacle, he is at least honest aboutit.
That’s why the best policies, as laid out by the Jill Stein of the Green Party and others, are:
a) Eliminate all fossil fuel subsidies.
b) Place high tarrifs on all international trade in fossil fuels.
c) Implement a fossil carbon tax.
d) Shift R&D money away from fossil and nuclear (most of the DOE budget) and move it to solar, wind & storage.
With such an approach, the United States could hope to catch up to China and potentially become the world leader in renewable energy manufacturing and implementation, while also cleaning up the air and water and slowing global warming.
I’d say I would have said that myself, but I wouldn’t have written it as well. Thanks!
Love Jill and that policy outline. The only part of that responsive to our Corporatocracy is having a face saving amount of money going into renewable energy. There is nothing game changing coming out of our “elections”.
Nice big words: “Statistical methods of prediction on chaotic systems are not designed to be ‘settled science’”
Well, if people can predict that winter in New York is going to be colder than summer in New York, even though weather is a “chaotic system”, they can also predict that dumping fossil CO2 into the atmosphere is going to warm the planet.
Fossil fuel PR monkeys, pounding their little drums. . .
I think you are in over your head with the last paragraph of your post. First off, statistics does not make predictions, it measures data. Certainly the measurements can be used in a predictive model – track filters for example – but by themselves the statistics make no predictions. Then there is the business of chaotic systems. You are apparently confused about the notion of “settled science”, which I suppose is jargon you picked up from an earlier post. In my four plus decades of work as a physicist I have never participated in a discussion or debate with colleagues in which that expression turned up. So I can only guess as to what you mean by it. Should I assume that by “”settled science” you mean scientific models for which there is excellent agreement between a-priori predictions and measurements? If so, then your assertion about predictions about chaotic systems is wrong. Of course the aim of climate modeling is to make predictions that can be tested using experimental data, and of course those predictions must be couched in terms of statistical quantities such as temperature. Furthermore, it is the intent in designing climate models to produce accurate results; by the assumed definition above, that would constitute “settled science”.
As a general aside I would like to see a scientific article written by someone who claims to be a climate change denier in which specific, testable predictions about the evolution of the planet’s climate over the next few years are made. In scientific research, if one does not agree with a particular model, and can show experimental evidence that the current best model is erroneous in some respect, it is customary to develop an alternative model that both agrees with the existing models in areas in which they are correct and makes quantitative, testable predictions in areas in which they are not. Examples from real science include quantum mechanics and general relativity, which extended classical mechanics and Newtonian gravity, respectively.
I will not be renewing my subscription to the Atlantic.
“Evidence of human-made climate change is so conclusive that it’s wrong for journalists to treat its denial like a reasonable point of view”
Please provide any verified evidence that this is true. Any. Just one.
“Please provide verified evidence that HIV actually causes AIDS. Any. Just one.”
“Please provide verified evidence that tobacco actually causes lung cancer. Any. Just one.”
“Please provide verified evidence that the moon landing wasn’t faked. Any. Just one.”
Please provide verified evidence that you aren’t a PR monkey in the employ of the fossil fuel lobby, while you’re at it.
Please provide any evidence for anything else that is happening now that could possibly cause such a rapid increase in average global temperatures.
You, of course, do not like climate models, but they do get the major effects right, including some (but probably not all) positive feedback mechanisms.
Is this post a joke? Do you even science, bruh? Do you even logic?? Try reading some peer reviewed research sometimes, any and all of it, not some half-witted online blog you’ve dug up.
There are trillions of US$ in this corrupt system and it not just coal, or oil, also solar and wind energy:
https://thenewfire.wordpress.com/conclusion-it-is-solar-power-industry-vs-leonardo-corp-ecat/
https://twitter.com/The_New_Fire/status/756512472648024069
… and they are suppressing a disruptive energy technology called LENR, but good to know that the US Congress addressed the US Secretary of Defense Directed to Provide a Briefing on LENR in September 2016 :
https://twitter.com/The_New_Fire/status/730236360108478464
https://www.congress.gov/114/crpt/hrpt537/CRPT-114hrpt537.pdf
https://twitter.com/The_New_Fire/
Really, hyping bogus cold fusion nuclear energy. . . that’s just sad. The facts are clear: solar + wind + energy storage technologies (including artifical photosynthesis for fuel production, not just batteries) can meet all global energy needs without any need for fossil fuels or nuclear reactors.
Controlled fusion is hard. Anyone who tells you differently is dishonest.
Johnson told the audience “climate change is probably not in most American’s top 10, top 20 issues.”
Of course not because the GOP has them much more concerned with whether or not someone they don’t know might be using birth control or have an abortion. Whether or not you are a true christian like them. Whether or not someone says Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. Whether or not your genitals fit the sign on the rest room door. Whether or not you make a marital commitment to someone of the same sex. Whether of not you choose to use an herb as medicine or take the over priced poison peddled by big pharma. Whether or not the lives of black people matter or not. Whether of not we should outlaw all Muslims for entering the country. Whether or not we should build a wall.
The priorities of the American people are set by self serving clowns like Trump is doing right now. Not by science or academia.
As most of the media (including many classic names) become paid pushers of dangerous nonsense, it is important that any that retain their independence become better read and even more accurate.
By and large the American media has turned into a government-corporate propaganda system that rivals anything seen in the Soviet Union. I haven’t even bothered to look at the NYTimes or Washington Post or Politico in many months, now, and the central reason is that I use Google or Google News searches for information recovery, and those sources just don’t turn up with searches like this:
American agenda Libyan oil
United States syria qatar iran pipeline
Exxon mobil climate fossil fuels
If you do get a hit from the likes of the NYTimes, you’ll find a consistent subtext defending the fossil fuel industry in one way or the other (“divestment from exxon involves major financial risks to educational institutions”, etc.). This, after all, is an outfit that promoted the Iraqi War for Oil based on lies about WMDs.
If you look at the corporate ownership of all the major American media networks, from Comcast to TimeWarner to Disney, you find them owned by the major Wall Street funds who have much larger holdings in Exxon, Chevron, BP, Shell etc., as well as in arms contractors like Lockheed, Northrup, Raytheon, UnitedTech, etc. – the very same funds that manage so many American pension funds – Fidelity, Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street, Dodge&Cox – who are almost never covered by corporate media.
And that makes sense – would you expect Pravda and Tass in the Brezhnev Soviet Union to write negative stories about Central Committee Politburo members? Hell no you wouldn’t.
The fact is, the United States has become much like the old Soviet Union and the dissolution of the American Empire is as inevitable as that of the Soviet Union; the transition away from fossil fuels and foreign military adventures will have a devastating impact on Wall Street earnings, so they’re holding on with teetch and nails for as long as they can, regardless of the global damage it causes.
Sure I feel sorry for all the retiring baby boomers who thought they could live off this system for the rest of their lives, feeding off student loan debt held by young people, control of Middle Eastern oil and arms sales to dictatorships, but it’s all going to crumble away. And if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
It is not crumbling away all that fast. Your comparison of the US with the SU is incorrect. The SU never had a fraction of the power that the US still has. The SU’s image as a super power was greatly enhanced by both SU and US propaganda.
And please stop the stupid 60s catchy phrases. They were wrong even then.
Look, I know baby boomers get touchy when you point out that their retirement funds are built on bloodshed and environmental disaster, and I also know that many baby boomers are not involved in these schemes and have fought hard against them (really, I think I now understand how black people feel about white people; I feel the same way about baby boomers, and make the same caveats) but, the reality is pretty bleak.
If you’re holding onto that 401k managed by fidelity, if your pension plan is managed by State Street or Vanguard, that’s what’s going on. So, let’s rephrase the stupid 60s catchy phrase, as you call it:
If you’re part of the problem, you’re part of the problem. So dump that fund and invest in renewables instead – even if it means a lower return on investment.
You did not address my comment.
You mean the bit about the Soviet Union?
The Soviet Union had all its satellite states that fed the Soviet economy, from eastern Europe to central Asia. Yes, the American Empire is bigger, if it was the same as the Soviet Union the US would only control North and South America – but the grip there has weakened, hasn’t it? The Middle East outpost is a major difference. And Obama is trying to create an Asian version of the Warsaw Pact with his TPP deal, as well as trying to control Africa’s natural resources. But I think the Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria debacles are clear evidence of the failing power of the American Empire, and that trend will continue.
To get back to the subject, however, take a look at top Democratic donor, Warren Buffet, who backed Obama and is now backing Clinton. He’s trying to move coal-fired electricity into California markets, via companies run by Berkshire-Hathaway:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/dan-walters/article91100712.html
See how that works? That’s why Clinton is lying when she says she will promote clean renewable energy; it would hurt the interests of one of her main sponsors, Warren Buffet.
I think your analysis is probably the most comprehensively correct of anything I’ve read in a while on this issue. You summed it up pretty well. If there were a way to coalesce a larger movement based on this “Manifesto” real progress could be made in getting this nation to actually take action.
Did the politicians involved get paid anything?
No scientist , industry related or not, denies climate change, how much is anthopogenic is the issue, Be honest !!!
No, be really honest: it is anthropogenic. Such rapid change requires an obvious intense driver. There is only one happening.
Solar Radiation Management?…
The military geoengineering and control of the weather?…especially as a weapon of war?
the sun in a funk?
A very very weird solar cycle 24?
The purposeful melting of the arctic, for the last untapped deposits of oil.
This was determined by the Carbon 13 ( a tracer for the burning of fossil fuels) in the glacial record. There is no doubt about climate being athropogenic because of the presence of Carbon 13 in the glacial record corresponds exactly with the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere
Here is an article that looks at how much money will be raised with a carbon tax:
http://viableopposition.blogspot.ca/2016/07/the-fiscal-context-of-carbon-based.html
Despite what the Republicans say about the high costs of carbon taxes, the annual costs of a carbon tax to Corporate America is unlikely to severely impact its ability to continue to grow and create jobs for millions of Americans who are still out of work seven years after the end of the Great Recession.
Look, the problem for Wall Street is that they know renewables will be far less profitable than fossil fuels, regardless of any carbon tax.
Let’s do the math: Consider a 300 megawatt natural gas power plant constructed at a cost of $300 million, or a 300 megawatt coal-fired power plant constructed at a cost of $1 billion, or a 300 megawatt solar plant constructed at cost of $750 million (those are good estimates, see Google)
You’d think, no big deal, costs are similar, so let’s get off coal and move to solar, right?
But, and this is the key issue – over the next 20 years, that solar plant will run off the sun, not off fossil fuel sales. Huge volumes of gas and coal, expected to earn fat profits, just sit in the ground. Any Wall Street fund with large coal and gas investments (and they all have such investments, expected to pay off for decades) will see the value of those assets vanish. Sure, they can sell the electricity from the solar plant, but that doesn’t help the holders of fossil fuels, does it?
I think the climate science and climate activist community simply hasn’t grasped this fact; they are not technologically oriented businesspeople, is why. But fossil fuel interests and Wall Street investors have done that cost-benefit analysis, and they don’t like what it says.
Seriously, you tell a bunch of rich people that you’ve got an innovative technology that will destroy their profit model but be really good for the domestic economy, for environmental health, and for slowing global warming, do you think they’re going to be happy about it? Say goodbye to the jet set lifestyle, the luxurious country club, the vacation homes all over the world – no, they’re going to scream bloody murder and do everything they can to shut your technology down.
That’s where we are now, I’m afraid. And since our government is a plutocracy posing as a democracy, well?
This of couse is why China has leapfrogged past the United States to become the global leader in solar and wind technology, while we are headed for the Brazilian rich/poor gated community/slum model.
I think everybody understands that people who make fortunes by pumping or digging up stuff from the ground want to continue doing so. Maybe you feel it is your job to tell everyone because you are the last to figure it out.
“Everybody” doesn’t seem to understand why, when they go to the DNC and try to get the platform rewritten, it is so strongly opposed, even when fossil fuel interests give far more money to Republicans than to Democrats – it’s because Wall Street gives equally to the DNC and the RNC. Thus:
http://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/29/hillarys-delegates-want-100-clean-energy-veto-solutions-get-us/
It’s a good article:
Then, see the charts – almost all the fossil fuel money goes to Republicans, not Democrats. But then the author makes this conclusion:
That’s not it at all – it’s that the likes of Goldman Sachs, a top Democratic donor, have huge investments in fossil fuels. And this is where Democratic politicians are playing a really nasty dishonest con game against the American public, by giving lip service to clean energy and fighting climate change, while actually promoting the fossil fuel agenda, as Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama have done.
And no, I don’t think people are widely aware of this dynamic, regardless of what you say.
Again, you replied to something different than the specifics of my comment on the specific part of what you wrote.
Such dishonesty is useless except to make you feel better.
“. . . the specifics of my comment on the specific part of what you wrote” – gosh, how clear. You mean what, precisely? I fail to understand what’s ‘dishonest’, either. Explain, please.
Everybody understands that Republicans are the top recipients of fossil fuel executive’s money, but the fact that investors in fossil fuel companies are top donors to Democrats, and that this is why Democrats, like Republicans, promote fossil fuels – that seems less understood. Doesn’t it?
Greene’s support for fracking is reasonable. He recognizes that it must be a player in order for us to achieve our goals of reducing our emissions. He is not against regulating the industry.
Nonsense. Who is paying you?
Opensecrets, Gene Green, D-Texas, donations directly related to natural gas interests:
Oil & Gas $78,700
Electric Utilities $59,250
Chemical & Related Manufacturing $50,500
Of course, this is also the line championed by Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama, that fracked natural gas is a ‘clean fuel’ that will serve as a ‘bridge’, and she promoted fracking at home and all over the world:
https://shadowproof.com/2016/06/24/democrats-urged-reject-fracked-gas-bridge-fuel-party-platform/
Natural gas has already been responsible for reducing our carbon emissions. This is because natural gas emits 45% less carbon than coal. Right now it is coals biggest competitor. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/project_syndicate/2012/09/thanks_to_fracking_u_s_carbon_emissions_are_at_the_lowest_levels_in_20_years_.html
Instead of using natural gas as a bridge fuel to get us off of fossil fuels, we are just simply burning the bridge. Future generations will rightfully call us stupid.
One of the missing elements in the natural gas industry’s story is the contribution of methane emissions. Methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, and in the US, anyway, the production of natural gas puts more methane into the atmosphere than any other source. My source is this week’s issue of The Economist, page 9.
Natural gas is NOT an answer to the climate change problem.
Sorry but switching from coal to natural gas has been more successful at reducing emissions than renewables and carbon taxes. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/project_syndicate/2012/09/thanks_to_fracking_u_s_carbon_emissions_are_at_the_lowest_levels_in_20_years_.html
The USA, in spite of not being a signatory, is the only country that has met the Kyoto Accord goals. That is thanks to fracking and natural gas.
What? Please provide a citation for your claim!
You might be interested in looking at page 9 of this week’s issue of The Economist. It reports that in the US, fully 1/3 of all the methane emissions are due to natural gas extraction. Your assertion is bullshit.
To be clear, existing batteries are not efficient enough to reasonably store energy for household or industrial use.
Efficient? Perhaps you mean that it is till too expensive to store enough energy to do the complete job. So what? Much more is possible than was just a few decades ago. Solar is not fully utilized now, and guess who wants to keep it that way?
If batteries weren’t efficient enough for use in home solar systems, then nobody’s solar installation would work to their satisfaction. But nearly all of them do. Do you seriously believe that if the batteries in all the solar installations weren’t storing enough power overnight to make them functional, that we wouldn’t have heard about it? Industrial use is different, but there too work is being done on higher-capacity batteries, different methods of storing power, etc. And many companies use solar power, with batteries to store power overnight, for many parts of their operation–lighting, building environmental control, etc. Heavy industrial manufacturing requires more power, but even heavy industry uses a lot of power in parts of their operation that aren’t directly involved in manufacturing, and many of these power needs can be met by current systems.
The photo at the top is the real representation of
democrats and republicans alike.
One smokestack spewing more aggressively at a time.
Here comes the other one from Philedelphia!
Oops,
Phil-a-delphia.
Get some rest, Clark.
R we sure that’s pollution or water vapor from a scrubber 0r?