By quietly dropping a ban on direct donations from registered federal lobbyists and political action committees, the Democratic National Committee in February reopened the floodgates for corruption that Barack Obama had put in place in 2008.
Secret donors with major public-policy agendas were welcomed back in from the cold and showered with access and appreciation at the Democratic convention in Philadelphia.
Major donors were offered “Family and Friends” packages, including suites at the Ritz-Carlton, backstage passes, and even seats in the Clinton family box. Corporate lobbyists like Heather Podesta celebrated the change, telling Time: “My money is now good.”
What was going on inside the convention hall was also reflected outside, at costly events sponsored by the fossil fuel industry, technology companies, for-profit colleges, pharmaceutical companies, and railway companies, to name a few.
Craig Holman, an elections financing expert at Public Citizen, said that the end of the lobbyist contribution ban as well as Congress’s 2014 termination of all remaining public financing of the party conventions has served to undermine democracy. “The implications of these changes are that we have opened up access to the parties and the conventions to just the very, very wealthy,” he said.
He pointed out that Congress originally passed the law to publicly finance presidential conventions after a 1972 scandal where President Richard Nixon terminated an anti-trust investigation eight days after the telecommunications company ITT donated heavily to that year’s Republican convention.
For the more than 1,900 Bernie Sanders delegates at the convention, the dependence on high-roller lobbyists was particularly galling. Sanders’s campaign was built on a simple promise: he would shun big-ticket fundraisers and corporate lobbyists in favor of a legion of small donors. And it worked. By the end of April 2016, Sanders’s campaign was actually raising more money than Clinton’s, which was welcoming support from corporate lobbyists and bundlers.
But an overwhelming majority of Democratic lawmakers we spoke to at the convention didn’t seem troubled by the rule change at all.
At a posh event hosted by The Atlantic and paid for by the American Petroleum Institute oil lobby, Rep. Henry Cuellar, D-Texas, shrugged off concerns about the influence of special interest groups.
“I don’t know, you’ll have to ask the DNC on that,” he said in response to a question whether lifting the ban was the right move.
“Do you think that lobbyists have undue influence?” we followed up.
“I don’t know.”
“What about energy lobbyists? What about oil lobbyists?”
“What about ’em?”
“Do you think they have undue influence in the United States?”
“I think they’re just like teachers, like firemen, like everybody who contributes.”
“What about the Koch Brothers, who spent $400 million on an election?”
“You’ve gotta go talk to the Koch Brothers,” he replied, ending the conversation.
Democratic Rep. Hank Johnson of Georgia offered a Willie Sutton justification for lifting the lobbying ban. “The lobbyists, that’s where the money is,” he said.
Former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley made attacks on special interests a cornerstone of his short-lived Democratic presidential primary campaign — decrying Hillary Clinton’s “cozy relationship with Wall Street.” Just a few short months later, his concern about moneyed interests influencing the Democratic Party seem to have evaporated.
“I’m really kind of agnostic on it,” he said. “I really don’t care one way or another.”
Rep. Elijah Cummings of Maryland ducked the question. “It’s above my paygrade,” he quipped.
Missouri Rep. Emanuel Cleaver said he would never have banned lobbyists like Obama did in the first place. “I wouldn’t have done it,” he said. “It’s not a matter of wrong or right. It’s a matter of making sure we have the resources to put on a convention.”
Former Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, the chair of the DNC’s Host Committee, has refused to disclose donors to that committee until 60 days after the convention.
In an interview with The Intercept, Rendell insisted there was nothing wrong with keeping the committee’s donors secret until just a few weeks before the election, and he downplayed the influence of big donors. “I never made one decision where I was influenced by a campaign contribution,” he said.
“So why are lobbyists giving money to the DNC now again,” we asked. “Are they doing it just because they have extra money to give?”
“They want access,” he acknowledged.
Rep. Sander Levin of Michigan avoided the question. “At this point I want to focus on the basic issues. I’m in favor of getting money more and more out of politics,” he said. When we followed up by asking whether lobbyists should be able to fundraise for the DNC, he walked away.
House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California stopped to talk to us, but after hearing the subject, briskly walked away as a fleet of staffers blocked off access to her.
A staffer for Rep. Adam Schiff of California asked the subject of our interview question. She then informed her boss, who told her, “I don’t want to talk about that.”
Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut said he was unconcerned with the policy shift. “Unfortunately, we’re in a world today where we have to raise private money,” he said. “I don’t get too concerned about who and what groups you take money from. It’s up to you.”
There were, however, a few dissenters to the new policy.
Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts said he favored the Obama-era ban. “I think the president had it right,” he told us.
When informed of the new policy, Rep. Jerry McErney of California was blunt. “Yeah, that’s probably a bad idea,” he said.
Sen. Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin said she wanted to see a return to of the ban. “That would be something that I would encourage,” she said.
Rep. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut also objected to the change. “I think they should not have done that,” she said.
When informed that lobbyists could give six figures to the DNC, former Iowa Democratic Sen. Tom Harkin was taken aback.
“That’s wrong,” he said.
Hillary would easily win Bernie voters if she promised to only accept public financing – easily beating Trump. She can win honestly without huge campaign contributions.
Some Bernie voters might not like her current course of financing.
Not so fast….Hillary hasn’t released her speeches to Wall Street, and I don’t mean maybe one or two…I mean all of them. Look a little further, and I suspect Bill Gates is in the cesspool of financing.
Thanks for this article; it reinforces my suspicions about two of our Maryland politicians: O’Malley and Cummings. The former talked the talk during his brief flirtation with fame, but shows himself now to be another typical Maryland politician. As to the latter, well, another one of the machine crew. I’m voting Green from now on.
Madam de Pompadour, lover of Louis XV of France, famously said, “Après moi le déluge” (“After me, the deluge”). Some interpret her as meaning, “After this comes revolution” and others as “Once I’m gone, who cares?” Fifteen years after his death, his son Louis XVI was sent to the guillotine.
We now have a spoiled five year old as one candidate and a duplicitous corporate shill as the other. Both are mistrusted and disliked by a large majority of Americans. Our politicians routinely take obscene amounts of money from the rich and then shield them from the law. And the best other politicians have to offer on this state of affairs is either “no comment” or to simply walk away. It certainly feels like we’ve reached our own “après moi” moment.
Great reference. But isn’t Trump much worse than a child? There is no “neither” option. What are we to do?
You are both wrong, nobody makes you vote for one of the two parties in a presidential election. That is a choice you make, however much you would like to pretend you are “forced” to pick one.
Take some responsibility for your choices, please.
Walked away. Would not respond. Ended the interview.
And why should they? They seem to be able to get away with it. Heck, a lot of them just said, “We need the money, they need the access” and Americans just yawn.
It seems like Americans really don’t care at all. They’re getting cheated through and through – and they love it. They don’t want to hear issues, they want to hear, “America is great – because it’s good!”
OK, so then what do we do? It can’t be that guy and we all know it. White people in the US cannot Brexit in a national temper tantrum, a racist wave of entitlement. Please oh god.
#Vote3rdParty
Are the two parties dead, bitten and swallowed by US oligarchy and their henchmen lobbyists? Did this oligarchic excretion was what defecated this whole farce called DNC convention?
I would like to share with you my thoughts about what’s actually happened just Thursday in Philadelphia and beyond.
I must admit that for the first time I have witnessed a political funeral where dead person spoke in a way that reminded mourners why they are better off with her politically dead. But there is always first time for everything, I guess.
Speaking from the “other side” in her ghastly manner she focused on mostly frightening infantilized audience with her spooky stories of her sordid past or rather as she has it, what she have accomplished while dead and gave us a lecture why avoiding Holy Water is a good thing, while in the end offering us her cold deadly embrace, a perfect conclusion cheered by her half dead zombie disciples who, as she promised, will soon cross over to the “other side”, a better side, together forever, strait into warm and comfortable good old American Hell where almost all Dems are already enjoying their political deaths finally joined with Trump and other GOP abominable characters domiciled where they belong.
Should we join her there, should we put on a political suicide vest or rather a suicide ballot and blow ourselves into Helldom Come just to see her, just to feel her cold, just to touch her fetid political corpse, just to snuggle to her decomposing bosom and to sweetly surrender our last vestiges of humanity or may be just to try to feel anything at all, at last. With all the exaltation her ghosly voce reminded all of us that for those who don’t go with her on their own, graves are already dug so nobody will be left behind.
This is her darkly and deadly vision that Clinton offered for all of us in this world, a blind vision of war and death, a blind vision of injustice, a blind visions suffering and continuing horrific oligarchic theft and exploitation, a blind vision of violence and lawlessness and even more horrendous poverty to come. In all, a vision of delusional psychopathic narcissist who won’t listen to anybody real since in the “other side” there is nobody else but Wall Street oligarchs joined intermingled with pedophile priests.
Lustful for power, Hillary, as expected delivered strong and hopefully last and final insult to dignity of ordinary living and breathing Americans who suffered immensely from consequences of ghostly Clinton mafia rule from beyond, from beyond of democracy or even from beyond any human decency in a dark kingdom of her evil oligarchic friends.
So who will join her in her greedy unquenched quest for American souls? Who will succumb to her siren calls of ghostly deceit, or submit to her lying vision of lesser evil than she already is?
So-called independent media as well as Sandernistas and everyone else for that matter must decide if they really want to cross to the other side on their own or instead they choose life, choose to fight the Hell on Earth that political devil minions like Trump and Hillary diligently prepared for us.
Make your own choice.
My goodness, you sound as solid as a melting piece of ice. The leadin to this article is incorrect and the first paragraph is incorrect. You all must be brothers with Breitbart spoof from..another anatomical source. Prez Obama did not repeal – in 2014, Congress repealed the longstanding public financing of the conventions, (except for $50 million in security funds provided to each convention’s state and local law enforcement authorities. (Denver Post)
Also check http://time.com/4401622/republican-convention-donations-transparency. Doesn’t take much talent to come up with lies. Us Republicans have been doing it for decades.
Your DNC/Hillary trolling is exceptionally poor.
So being against “Citizens United”, was just a bunch of DNC propaganda.
They are whores like the GOPe. Time for a change, don’t you think?
“Time for a change, don’t you think?”
To what?
#Vote3rdParty
The corrupting influence of money in politics, and corporate personhood are the two huge boulders that block access to the paths toward the solutions to the pressing problems of of our times.
And Trump combined with focus on a women’s chance to become President will be all the puppet masters need to keep oppressive control, and simaltaneously put forth the illusion of democracy.
What is it that causes those in the Democratic Party to not know how bad it looks to put Obama and Hillary on the same stage? President Obama is a completely different person from the fraudulent candidate. Hillary believes she is entitled to the power, status, historical recognition, global adoration that is the US Presidency. Without her husband getting in her way she will really mess things up. Her desire for the Presidency was created because she feels the first 2 terms her and her husband were in office failed to accomplish their goals. It has nothing to do with having a vagina and if it does than all the more reason to run from her. The delegation of authority put out during those previous 2 terms has put more Americans in lock up or in the criminal system than any time before and she isn’t satisfied? She is not going to remove authority. She will put us under more of it. Consider the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. It has given the government the authority to control where you go and what you do if you are a parent who is not married. She isn’t satisfied with that? What’s going to satisfy her? This country is doomed if she gets elected…..
Agree.
Make sure she is not elected.
By electing…? LEMMIE GUESS…
Both of them are friends of Kissinger not to mention BIG money. Thanks but I’m voting for Jill Stein.
@James Dusel-the burden all of us suffer from, except Hillary, that is the Executive, Legislative and Judicial collective of authority is massive! Every person that is elected works really hard to add to it. From the little I have heard this Stein woman will be no different. She will NOT be able to do anything meaningful if she doesn’t remove authorities that currently drive this un-American experience. Have you heard her say she would remove/end anything? If not than she is no better than Hillary.
A vote outside a party means strengthening one of the candidates you hope will lose. Work to change the party structure, but don’t throw your vote away.
Good afternoon. This is my first time commenting here, so here goes.
My very first instinct is to cast my vote in such a way as to deny Hillary access to the electoral college vote that the great big state of Montana has to offer.
( LOL ) Bernie Sanders took Montana easily in the primaries.Trump will carry Montana with or with out my vote, at least that’s my take on what I must do to keep her out of the white house.
That said, If Hillary announced in a news conference, or in some way put out that she would welcome, and encourage Jill Stein and Gary Johnson into the upcoming debates with or with out The Donald’s appearance, that would go a long way to alleviating my concerns over those undisclosed wall street speech transcripts.
No worries though because we all know that THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
BUT I CAN AT LEAST CLAIM TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND :)
Amy Baldwin is my rep. Good to hear her position on this type of funding, as she’s teetering on the edge of progressive policies. I’m paying attention and will decide whether or not to vote for her again when she’s up for re-election. Good to hear that she answered your question and didn’t walk away. Thanks for reporting this.
This brief video is put on YouTube by a Trump fan – but I want to share it because it is about the DNC disenfranchising Sanders’ delegates, and is quite disturbing.
Hillary Clinton’s organized fraud:
Why is quite disturbing? It is business as usual for the Wall Street, Arms Industry, and warmonger candidate. The only one who believe Hillary is Bernie who is a very good man but also incredibly naive…and that was the end of the “American Revolution”. Pathetic.
I found it difficult to watch all those Bernie delegates bewildered by the situation – they were obviously surprised by this underhandedness, unlike you and I – and my sympathy for them made me feel pretty bad. As an aside, Bernie looked depressed and frightened last night, which I also found disturbing.
I don’t know about “disturbing,” but it shows what a bunch of disgusting pigs the DNC and Clintonites are. Anyone who’s in any way progressive but thinks that our main priority is defeating Trump is either in denial or very badly mis- or uninformed.
What else did you expect?
We are indeed blessed to be rid of a weak and senile President who cannot stand up for his people and demand justice. All indications are that he may have gone and joined ISIS or China had we elected him. Good always prevails, sometimes through means that we in our ignorance perceive as devious.
And Hiliary Clinton? Come November she will be history. So don’t worry.
What else did you expect?
We are indeed blessed to be rid of a weak and senile President who cannot stand up for his people and demand justice. All indications are that he may have gone and joined ISIS or China had we elected him. Good always prevails, sometimes through means that we in our ignorance perceive as devious.
And Hiliary Clinton? Come November she will be history. So don’t worry.
Well, if you’re going to promote Trump, I’m going to shout out to Jill Stein 2016! So there.
Did I mention “Trump” in this particular post? You are hallucinating, dear Maisie. And probably that’s what is leading you to Jill Stein.
You always support Trump, you silly person! I suppose you could be saying someone or something else will make Hillary “history” (I mean, you could feasibly be having a personality shift and momentarily feel the urge to promote another candidate), but I doubt it somehow.
Again Maisie, you don’t pay attention to what you read. ;-)
What I wrote is “she will be history”. What you read is “she will make history”. Entirely opposite.
Trump is going to win and consign the rest to history, unless something bad happens to stop him. There are many, many powerful people who wouldn’t want him to win, and they have endless resources to do what they want. Join us in our prayers to keep Donald Trump safe and healthy.
And c’mon Maisie, you really didn’t have to scroll up and check. I didn’t get afflicted by the rank bad habits of Lyin’ Ted and Crooked Hiliary.
I didn’t read “she will make history” at all; you said she will “be history” due to something! That something is obviously Trump, according to your thinking – as you’ve just confirmed. I think the idea of Hillary *making* history is repugnant, personally – perhaps even as much as you. As for the rest, I can’t say I’ll pray for anyone, as I don’t pray at all.
Ask her about the conspiracy. She sees things. ;)
You asked me not to bring it up!
;)
Just some friendly teasing Maisie….;)
The credibility of this video was destroyed within the first 30 seconds.
That democracy-ending, dissent-cancelling “white noise machine,” is a wireless antenna.
https://www.amazon.com/Aironet-Four-Port-Dual-Band-Polarization-Diverse-Antenna/dp/B00VQQ2YUG
Quite disturbing indeed!!
The jury is still out:
http://www.ipphone-warehouse.com/valcom-v9422-sound-masking-speaker-p/V-9422.htm?gclid=Cj0KEQjw2ua8BRDeusOkl5qth4QBEiQA8BpQcDMt_VYWGsfVv-iAe6JsLGMFRe16R3oyiLg3iWkP084aAtrR8P8HAQ.
That looks nothing like the device in the video…
It looks the same to me (thanks for the link, @Guest). Even if you disregard that, the rest of the video is what I found most disconcerting.
It looks nothing the same.
The lady’s credibility was wrecked with that comment. The rest of her rant, unless corroborated and verified elsewhere, deserves harsh skepticism at best, doubt at worst.
I did my due diligence and found nothing to support her online. Unless you count the Gateway Pundit…
Readers are invited watch the video and decide for themselves, about the device *and* the several disenfranchised delegates speaking in the convention arena.
Full video here (without Trump connections)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srC1nJDJZlE
Thanks!
The obscene devotion to corporate money and to being owned by these interests is among the reasons why so many cannot vote for Hilary Clinton, not even to stop a President Trump. Most sadly, however, this is a source of tremendous and angry disagreement among progressives. People who’ve been friends and allies for years are turning on each other. The fissure is severe.
It’s not that they cannot vote for her, but she’s probably not going to win anyway. There is really no point spoiling personal relationships on account of crooked folks in the world, and you should make peace with your good friends and go along with them. Friends are more important in this world than all the crooked people put together. It’s going to be just as inconsequential as Lyin’ Ted’s refusal to endorse.
Here is an article that looks at how much support Hillary Clinton has received from the fossil fuel sector:
http://viableopposition.blogspot.ca/2016/04/hillary-clinton-and-her-ties-to-fossil.html
Despite her protestations to the contrary, she is quite clearly guilty of doing something that she claims she has not.
It’s a shame that Loretta Lynch did not show up and say a few nice words, even though I must say there was lots of other BLM supports.
This is another good story from you two trying to get people on the record.
Say, has anybody compared the speeches against the Republican candidate this year with the speeches against Romney, McCain, and Bush from previous conventions? I suspect that despite the “unique threat” of Trump that probably there was a lot of rehash. I am too lazy to look myself; the idea of actually listening to these speeches defeats me.
One speaker didn’t get any coverage from the Intercept: Albright. She’s always appalling.
I noticed one similarity to a Lloyd Benson vs Dan Quail debate that was given by a Republican speaking on behalf of Clinton. It was the person who said, “I knew Ronald Regan. I worked with Ronald Regan. And Mr. Trump, you’re no Ronald Regan.”
This was the exact phrasing Lloyd Benson used against Dan Quail in the VP presidential debate in 1988 when Dukakis made his run for the Whitehouse. Only the reference was to Jack Kennedy, not Ronald Regan.
A footnote: Pvt. Manning is facing, in essence, an increased sentence.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/28/chelsea-manning-suicide-attempt-military-charges-wikileaks
So, can we expect any executive pardons or such in this case, under Hillary or Donald? Doubtful. BTW, the article hyperlinks (at TI) to her ongoing case, now at Army Court of Appeals. After that, if denied, it’s on to the U.S. Court of Appeals of the Armed Forces.
> For the more than 1,900 Bernie Sanders delegates at the convention, the dependence on high-roller lobbyists was particularly galling.
the democratic leadership despises sanders, as they should. these people understand nothing but power. sanders understands nothing but how to stay in the spotlight. if that means remaining in the same party that has almost nothing to do with his professed beliefs, he’ll do it, and the democratic leadership will despise it for it, because they know exactly why he’s doing it. let him have some attention and he’ll demand nothing more. here’s your line, bernie: “whatever it takes to stop trump.” you don’t even have to say anything nice about hillary, your followers are as pathetic as you are. but they didn’t have to give him the line, of course, he knows exactly how the game is played
Copious evidence form Bernie Sanders’ many decades of political activism and representation show you are wrong about him. He doesn’t agree with contemporary progressive positions in some important areas, but that’s not evidence that he’s inauthentic in his views or venal in his behavior.
people change. they get some power and they change. people treat them differently, they see themselves differently. jill stein says that the green party has been reaching out to sanders for a while and he’s never replied. if he truly believed what he was saying during his campaign, that’s the way he’d go. at the very least, he would advocate a vote for the green party in safe states. he won’t even go that far because he’s a total shyster
There’s no evidence in support of your view and much against it. Bernie Sanders, like many, believes it’s paramount to stop Donald Trump from becoming president. He’s not going to promote a third party believing that.
but why wouldn’t he endorse the green party in safe states? he doesn’t have THAT much respect for his supporters? no, he’s all about bernie. if that wasn’t true before, it is now
Your assertions do not become more accurate with repetition. Bernie Sanders believes preventing a Trump presidency is imperative, and virtually no one who believes that is going to promote a third-party presidential candidate.
i didn’t repeat myself, i added the part about endorsing the green party in safe states. that would give them a huge boost. if there’s a small chance that the exposure will draw votes away from clinton in swing states, surely that’s a risk worth taking by anyone who truly believes in “political revolution.” let clinton deal with that possibility. if he’s really as good as his word, why can’t sanders do that much?
Reread your first comment in this sub-thread. You simply assert that Sanders is venal. Your assertions as to why have been tweaked but remain mere assertions that the evidence does not support.
“Safe states”
You can’t split hairs in politics. That’s the sort of thing your opponent jumps on. And points out the contradiction of your decision.
That theory doesn’t stand up; as he’s already leaving the party.
Anything to try and discredit the one guy that ran for either party’s nomination who has any integrity. Just like the Democratic establishment, folks seem utterly perplexed the guy would stay in the spotlight to get actual policy goals rather than personal gain. You can’t really push for any policies sitting at home alone making speeches to your pets. As Mona points out, Sanders has been around pushing for the same things for decades. He didn’t just crawl out from under a rock to run a populist campaign and try and get himself some publicity. Whether you like his positions or not, he’s as authentic as a modern U.S. politician can be.
Correction. You state:
“Anything to try and discredit the one guy that ran for either party’s nomination who has any integrity.”
This should say: “Anything to try and discredit the one guy that ran for either party’s nomination who had any integrity.”
I know it’s only one letter off, perhaps it was a typo, as s and d are next to each other on the keyboard. Once Sanders endorsed Clinton, however, he displayed that integrity is something in the past tense for him.
Slllooowwly step way from the crack pipe…
What a farce and circus! They have been owned, no, own the corporations for years and give only cosmetic, mostly lip service to the desires of “the people.” Only those who wish to believe in the tooth fairy can swallow this dish of lies.
I was saddened to read Glen Greenwald’s remarks encouraging fear of trumpeter over votes of conscience:
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/07/28/greenwald-explains-what-out-touch-media-doesnt-get-about-trump-russia-and-us
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2016/07/glenn_greenwald_on_donald_trump_the_dnc_hack_and_a_new_mccarthyism.html
Carol, here is the actual interview. There’s a lot more said that what was commented on in your link. Enjoy.
Not impressed with WomanBroke Ceiling WHEN THE 1st REQUIREMENT WAS TOBE FLOTUSA– so is Pres Michelle Obama next?? Because ALL THIS IS ONE TERM,!!
This deserves extremely wide coverage:
https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/29/video-protesters-blocked-access-to-seats-at-dnc/comment-page-1/#comment-35850
At this point, you either go Green because the LE TERRORIST rule does not work or go Republican.
This is a repost of a link that seems to have gone missing.
http://usuncut.com/politics/debbie-wasserman-schultz-hillary-clinton/
5 things that Wasserman did to give Clinton the nomination. Without this, we’d be looking at a complete REBUKE of the Political Elites in 2016.
Should this surprise anyone with a brain and is awake? There is a level of discouragement past which some people give up hope. Continuing to believe this system can be redeemed requires suspension of logic and a denial of what we see and hear. Revolution seems the only option left to us. I guess that as long as we have enough food, we can access our Facebook page(from anywhere on the planet), our AC still works,and we have 24 hour entertainment, why should things change?
The authority of the US govt is null and void (and has been for quite some time, if it ever existed).
It is an immoral act to support this system in any way, passively or actively. The social contract has been broken. Nothing is owed, they have already destroyed the rule of law, an attack on them does no more harm and can only possibly help make things better for the oppressed and disempowered.
It is unfortunate that the comfortable and selfish have taken us to this destination.
All you need to do to kill a political party is not vote for its candidates, or at least the main ones the party is hierarchically organized to protect.
People can’t even manage that simple act. Good cop bad cop works.
But I’m supposed to believe that “revolution” is a viable option, when people won’t even vote courageously?
Nice thing about revolution, especially in an advanced (in some ways) country like the US, is that it takes less people than winning an election.
Few weeks without food, electricity, things go south quick. Country is primed to split apart, with all the economic distress, lack of hope, fear-mongering, etc.
In the 70s there were bombings every week, wasn’t done by huge groups of people. Would have even more of an effect in 2016 given how fear primed the public is + 24hr news.
Now criticism of this is that there’s far less control than using an election to do change. But thing is, average Joe/Jane has zero control now, so what exactly is the reason they should stick with the status quo again?
Another one is that people will die. Yep. But people die today under current system. We chose to not topple the system today, those deaths on us too.
War is hell. But you can create hell with government policies too. Sometimes a far more insidious hell.
Prime Example of the Power Multiplier that 70s didn’t necessarily have:
Look at the final day of the Boston Marathon bombing manhunt. Two individuals, shut down public transit, universities, shelter in place orders, armored vehicles and door to door searches. TWO people. Largely unorganized at that point and simply on the run.
What could a group of 25, 50, 100, do? How many organized militias in the US have at least that many die hard believers? Much better tactic than occupying a wildlife refuge, thats for sure.
Why in the world should I trust a few violent people?
And you can just blithely excuse that there will be deaths on the grounds that there are deaths now.
As IF your formulation somehow means that there won’t be more deaths?
Oh okay, what if we were to conclude that we ought to just roll the dice here and maybe it will work, maybe it won’t who knows? I think the odds are shit, particularly as I consider the psychology of those who support this move, who never reveal themselves to be good thinkers, who usually reveal themselves to be megalomaniacs.
A failed rebellion guarantees much worse tyranny than now. Another likely outcome: the “valiant revolutionaries” will turn out to be tyrants themselves. The highly unlikely outcome: it will all work out just peachy keen, except of course for those immediately suffering as a result.
Americans always talk that way about the great things to come for other countries when order is toppled: oh you’ll be free now. Well how often does that result play out? Tell me about some times.
No, thanks, I won’t take your bet. Fuck off with your stupid, irresponsible fantasy.
You already trust violent people (hint: they’re the current govt). I’d recommend not trusting excessively violent individuals, it often does not end well, that is correct.
You also seem to assume that a country the size of the US would remain together, even under the most optimistic success scenario that is unlikely.
Whos to say maintaining the status quo doesn’t lead to more? What’s the relevant timeline? Something which would likely alter the evaluation of likely deaths.
The continuation of the status quo likely guarantees the continuation of the status quo, or worse. See? Not so rosy either. None of our options are for any kind of meaningful change. It is truly unfortunate.
Why do those rebellions the US assists not work out so well? Well one reason is the US involvement – not exactly known for helping in situations where it doesn’t stand to gain, and US govt interests ain’t even the same as it’s people – sure as hell won’t likely be helpful for someone elses general public. I hear the 1% around the world thinks we’re just swell though.
Of course, one might argue that causing the US to focus it’s military violence inward would be the best way to help out those who wish to be free elsewhere. Or it could lead to worse things (beat you to it).
It would seem that the more irresponsible fantasy would be believing that more of the same of the past 50+ years will yield different results. But maybe i’m just stupid.
What is this great stuff you would do differently, once enough inconvenient people died, and the people you would like to see run things take control? All hail the glorious revolution. What happens now exactly?
Notice how the content of your posts demonstrates that you are far less interested in the details of how to make the world a better place post-takeover than the bone-producing possibility of takeover?
you and the military types — you are not so different
You hit the nail on the head. The U.S. badly needs a revolution, but it won’t happen because Americans are too materially comfortable. Also, a revolution in this country would come from the right, not the left (or at least the right would prevail).
I see no solution here except mental and spiritual evolution, and that doesn’t seem to be happening either.
This is absolutely a slap-in-the-face to Sanders supporters.
So, not only did Clinton get Wasserman-Schultz to put her thumb on the scale to win the nomination, she backhands Sanders supporters with Big Money Interests getting front stage.
Does anyone doubt Trump’s statement that, “The System Is Rigged”?
For those interested, here is a profile of funds given by the various groups to Hillary Clinton.
http://influenceexplorer.com/politician/hillary-clinton-d/597e02e7d1b04d83976913da1b8e2998
Here are the 5 things Wasserman did to throw the nomination to Clinton and steal it away from Sanders.
Had this not been done, Clinton may have very well lost the nomination and we would have had complete REBUKE of the Political Elite 1% in 2016.
http://usuncut.com/politics/debbie-wasserman-schultz-hillary-clinton/
Here is the list of big donors to Clinton’s largest SuperPac that raised over $264 million. Her second largest pac raised over $100 million.
I live in California and the commercials have been going non-stop already now for 3 weeks.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?cycle=2016&id=N00000019&type=f
The SELL-OUT begins – as they point their fingers at Citizens United??
You will vote for a black man or a white woman / but RUSSIA only puts one name on the ballot
this time HRC????