In the midst of an election year in which issues of race and policing have often taken center stage, the most comprehensive and detailed policy platform on how to tackle them has come not from candidates or elected officials, but from a movement that found its voice on the streets of Ferguson, Baltimore, and dozens of other cities.
The Black Lives Matter movement erupted spontaneously in nationwide protests following the 2014 police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. In its early days, it was propelled by pain and rage, with little organization, but in the weeks and months that followed it grew coordinated and strategic, while never losing the horizontal, inclusive quality that allowed it to scale up so rapidly.
As community organizations and individuals operating under the Black Lives Matter principle denounced police violence, racism, and lack of accountability, they also took on broader issues affecting black communities: mass incarceration, access to clean water, economic justice. While the number of mostly black and brown people killed by police continued to grow, street protests have been sporadic. But away from the spotlight, a movement that made its name by way of protest continued to organize, and this week released a comprehensive policy platform, “A Vision for Black Lives,” that is at once an exhaustive indictment of the nation’s systemic racism and a clear-eyed presentation of concrete solutions to the problem.
“This is in response to people who keep asking, what are your demands, what are your asks?” said Michaela Brown, an organizer with the community organization Baltimore BLOC, one of the more than 60 groups that worked on the document. “This is what we want. This is why we march, this is why we occupy City Hall, this is why we target the police department.”
The platform, which the authors called “an articulation of our collective aspirations,” was developed on the premise that “the U.S. is a country that does not support, protect or preserve Black life.” “Neither our grievances nor our solutions are limited to the police killing of our people,” reads the introduction, which goes on to discuss underinvestment in black communities, failing schools, the exploitation of black labor, and a host of deep-seated systemic issues.
But the point of the platform is not to overwhelm with the magnitude of the country’s racial injustice — it’s to offer solutions. The text is broad and ambitious, calling for reparations for slavery and subsequent harm inflicted on black people and divestment from prisons and police, but also rich on details of specific policy solutions at the local, state, and federal level, and examples of places where the work has already started.The document focuses on six key areas — political power, community control, economic justice, investment and divestment, reparations, and an end to the war on black people — and includes a long list of tangible goals such as ending the death penalty, the money bail system, felon disenfranchisement, deportations, and the privatization of police and prisons. Each section lists statistics, resource tools, model legislation, and groups already working on a specific issue.
The broad call for radical change coupled with a detailed list of concrete objectives is “a recognition of how things change,” said Rashad Robinson, executive director of Color of Change, one of the groups behind the platform. “It’s important to have a movement that can be operationalized into policy. It’s always been more than a protest movement.”
Released on the heels of the Republican and Democratic national conventions, which referenced tensions between communities of color and law enforcement but offered little in terms of solutions, Robinson said the document was intended as a reminder that “it’s not about politicians putting out their platforms and hoping that we get behind them, but it’s about political leaders recognizing what the communities want.”
The movement for black lives coalition chooses not to endorse any political candidates at the federal or local level — but the authors of the platform hope politicians will read it, and some expressed frustration that the national conversation on race and police has largely missed the point.
“Neither the RNC nor the DNC had specific policy language in their platforms that addressed the things that we talk about; they address surface issues while we look to address the root causes of the issues,” said Brown. “It’s not about reform. Reform is putting a Band-Aid on and hope it heals. We want transformation, to provide a new arm.”
“Policy is not the whole picture, but it’s a place to start,” she added. “It’s a way to engage politicians and say, if you really think black lives matter, then why would it be so hard for you to put these policies in place?”
While “A Vision for Black Lives” is grounded in the experience of black Americans, its scope includes a number of marginalized groups and gives a nod to global problems. The authors emphasize that the platform remains a work in progress. They hope items will be crossed off as legislation passes and battles are won, but they also want it to be expanded as more people join the movement and campaign around specific issues. On Tuesday, the authors of the platform held a Twitter “town hall” to discuss implementation; more organizing calls, open to all, are scheduled for the coming weeks. And while the platform offers the consensus of groups working for a shared vision, with sometimes differing focus and tactics, it is also meant as a starting point for pursuing tangible goals.
On Wednesday, for instance, Color of Change and a number of other organizations will present the Department of Justice with a petition signed by more than 500,000 people calling for charges against the officers who last month killed Alton Sterling in Louisiana and Philando Castile in Minnesota, and for the defunding of police departments that reject reforms.
“The issue of policing is on the agenda and it’s on the national conversation, but building the type of power that forces decision-makers to do something about it is critical,” said Robinson. “Conversation and dialogue and all these things are important, but most importantly, right now we need action.”
I’m not black. I was handcuffed & brutally beaten by the local sheriff deputies at the age of 15 for being out after curfew. I have no love for the police, but I can’t support a racist, exclusive movement. BLM is racist & divisive from the title on. Try something inclusive & I’m right w/it. My 2 cents, end the war on drugs & 95% of theses problems go away.
We should have learned our lesson when the 18th birthed Capone…
I remember watching a documentary years ago about a black kid living in the “ghetto” in LA. His house was really nice and modern and he had all the latest electronics. He was healthy-looking and wearing labelled sports clothing. He looked better off than 95% of the Earth’s populations. He kept saying how tough it was in the ‘hood and that he didn’t get the same chances as whites. I was utterly bemused as neither does anyone else on this planet, unless they are likewise privileged as their own country’s elite. It seems Americans will complain about anything if they think it will get them a little extra without ever looking at the broader picture beyond their ‘hood or their own nation.
Maybe if Black Lives Matter changed to All Lives Matter then a lot more people would get involved. It is hard sometimes to have sympathy with anyone in the USA given the tons of self-seeking bullshit that flows forth from all quarters. Yes some innocent black Americans have been shot by the police, but millions of Muslims and other groups lumped in as “terrorists” have been murdered or displaced in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and throughout Africa and the Middle East. They matter too no matter what shade they are.
The War on Terror and the War on Drugs are Wars on Civilians. They circumvent the normal codes of War, changing “innocent” civilians into not just fair-game combatants but reviled evil-doers and criminals by adding nothing more than a simple label. An angry statement or act of resistance or protest or simply by being close to or in contact with someone else deemed likewise becomes a potential manifesto or pledge to a poorly identified and ever-shifting “enemy”.
Considering the resources abnd determination and riding roughshod over international law engaged in fighting these Wars, it thus makes the USA and its allies the most disturbing regime to have existed on this planet. Where Marxist-Leninism and Maoism failed to find true popular appeal and Nazism collapsed under its own insanity, the pursuers of the War on Terror and the War on Drugs have a simple buy-in philosophy for all the right-wing power centers and their supporters across the globe. All decent folk and potential scapegoats should be justifiably terrified, but whilst those genuinely concerned about the future continue to focus on their own small niche groups, no coherent force for change can ever hope to emerge – which is the exact expectations of those pursuing these fascist agendas. It sound terrible – even racist – not to support Black Lives Matter, but to me it seems as futile and self-serving as forming a group called Former Huegenot Refugee Lives Matter, or Polish Diaspora from WWII Fascist & Communist Atrocities Lives Matter. WTF? All Lives Matter and only through unity can those that wish to place their lives above all others be challenged and maybe beaten.
Considering that the War on Drugs was heavily motivated by racists looking for ways to target black people (see the recent admission by Nixon’s aide for example), and considering that the reforms BLM seeks would benefit all Americans, your comment seems ignorant and misguided.
“an end to the named and unnamed wars on Black people,
reparations for harms inflicted on Black people,
investments in the education, health and safety of Black people,
full and independent Black political power and Black self-determination in all areas of society.” -BLM
“the reforms BLM seeks would benefit all Americans”
How?? You mean maybe and indirectly, right?
No way! Free tuition for all black people? Why not stop requiring black people to pay taxes altogether, at that rate. Or charge a fine for being an inferior (non-African) race?
Black Lives Matter, your proposals are racially discriminatory and unjust.
Um, do you believe that you deserve reparations for slavery in America?
Victims of slavery/Jim Crow/redlining or their descendants do deserve some kind of reparation, but to simply judge people by the shade of their skin and met out privileges based on that is the very thing these people are supposed to be fighting against.
Demands. That is almost funny. My child makes demands too.
Reparations? Tell it to the Sioux and Northern Cheyenne.
Transatlantic slavery began when sub-Saharan African slaves were first traded as chattel by their own rulers, or kidnapped and sold to 15th century Iberian explorers along Africa’s west coast by warring sub Saharan tribes. By this time, slavery had been a going concern in various regions of the sub-Saharan African interior for more than 1500 years. Yet Black Lives Matters insists that 21st century white Americans (the great white satan) should be held financially culpable for a legacy institution that was earmarked for legal eradication with the binding ratification of the US constitution in 1788. Do a google search on transatlantic slavery and you will be hard pressed to find the name of a single sub-Saharan tribe that sold their black brethren into slavery . And you certainly won’t here mention of such facts when Black Lives Matters argues for reparations.
From below:
[founding member and self0defined titular head] Alicia Garza described the [BLM] network as an online platform that existed to provide activists with a shared set of principles and goals. Local Black Lives Matter chapters are asked to commit to the organization’s list of guiding principles, but operate without a central structure or hierarchy. Alicia Garza has commented that the Network was not interested in “policing who is and who is not part of the movement”. – Wikipedia
The Black Lives Matter movement has intentionally adopted a leaderless resistance strategy akin to that developed by Col. Ulius Louis Amoss, a former U.S. intelligence officer, in the early 1960s who understood that a horizontal network of loosely associated, semi autonomous cells were the “best way to prevent the penetration and destruction of CIA-supported resistance cells in Eastern European countries under Soviet control.” This same leaderless model has since been adopted by groups ranging from Islamic extremists to Occupy Wall Street. By design, horizontal organizations are intended to have less-defined chains of command. Thus when one attempts to attribute specific words or actions to a particular “leader” or “chapter” within the Black Lives Matter movement, there is an intrinsic organizational mean whereby the group – as a whole – can readily insulate itself. The historical downside of a leaderless resistance strategy is that it promotes a wide range of semi-autonomous action that often undermines the guiding principles or intended aims of the group itself. Secondly, a lack of vertical organization is, by its very nature, an impediment to synergy. One of the leading criticisms of the Occupy movement was that it lacked focus, coordinated purpose, and concrete proposals. When faced with the same criticism from across the country, specific members of Black Lives Matter – including DeRay Mckesson – took it upon themselves to draft a set of of ten proposals, all of which were specifically aimed at reducing police violence. That effort is referred to as Campaign Zero and DeRay Mckesson has been identified as its lead spokesperson. Such recognition has allowed Mckesson to gain access to prominent political leaders including Senator Sanders and President Obama for the sake of building political alliances.
It is only in consideration of the foregoing that one can begin to understand how BLM apologists like yourself indulge your white guilt by routinely employing strategies of plausible deniability when attempting to deflect any legitimate criticism of Black Lives Matters chapter members. The focus of this very article addresses a recently released, comprehensive policy platform by Black Lives Matters (central committee?) which is intended to convey the impression that synergistic action is possible while maintaining the appearance of leaderless resistance:
https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/
I apologize for accusing you for playing dumb elsewhere in the thread… I was at fault for giving you too much credit.
You posted an excerpt that undermines your own claims and then pretend it vindicates you?
And you bring it to the top of the thread to make sure everyone sees what an idiot you are?
Were you born with the skill to shoot yourself in the foot, or did you have to work at it?
Thanks for the laugh.
Yet you feel compelled to respond never-the-less, go figure Mona.
Pointing out the obvious to those who can’t see it is more than a hobby… it’s a calling.
Brilliant… masking your true identity to purportedly reveal the obvious! Now, if you could only master the art of pantomime to give a measure of expression appropriate to your wit.
Brilliant and witty!
Showering me with compliments won’t change my opinion of you, idiot.
Mirror, mirror on the wall…
Disney movies are a bit advanced for you.
I’m still waiting for you to substantiate your claim that BLM is made up of Maoist, lesbian vegans, or whatever your idiotic claim below was.
Accusing one’s opponent of being a Maoist, or some other form of communism, was actually an effective political strategy in the second Red Scare. But it was a form of ad hominem, which more closely resembles altohone’s pattern of argumentation here.
Still no evidence of racial bias in police shootings. No data to support it at all. Roland Fryer’s Harvard study found in his study that police were actually 23% less likely to use lethal force. BLM is a media-driven movement of selective outrage and nothing in this platform seriously addresses the real issues facing Black America.
Starting with a strawman argument, ignoring the full context, and ending with an unsupported false assertion.
Care to try again?
Thank you Alice for reporting on this.
If all that is necessary to get police to stop killing blacks, the killing isn’t going to stop anytime soon.
Some of the ignorance displayed in the comments here is appalling.
Anyone that claims that BLM is “anti-white” has apparrently not tead this platform that they are tailing against, for one.
Where do you think the money for these “government reparations” is coming from? Non-blacks, you dumb fuck. And not the ones who owned slaves, because they’re pretty much all dead now. They want to steal from random descendants of immigrants from European and Asian countries and give it to people who are racially half African. The whole notion that these light brown people are identified as African is an artifact of societal racism to begin with.
Having communicated with “those in charge” who say “they’re not in charge” and having documented a complete set of facts about the Black Lives Matter movement, I have much say.
In short, the “AGENDA” is exactly the ideological errors critics identify as proof that the “moral crusade” lacks the ability and competency to lift things to the next level. IT IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THE MEDIA HAS CATAPULTED UPWARD A FEW POLITICAL INSIDERS.
But to be taken seriously by policymakers the “AGENDA” should have been more focused and less “wild-eyed.” They are demanding everything but the basic fundamentals necessary to address impoverish black neighborhoods and the black boys and girls struggling to survive (epidemic gun violence, excessively high unemployment, low skill levels, abject poverty, and the like).
For some reason the media and political establishment allows just the uninformed and most belligerent to do the talking for the movement. Again, these leaders who say they are not leaders, are now benefiting financially by taking advantage of our local issues. They show up at the local demonstration with no plan, no vision, no centralized platform and could care less about black lives.
Jack Dorsey and his “boots on the ground” soldiers have found a way to keep “Twitter” in the BLACK!!!
Todd Elliott Koger
Blacklifematterpghorg
P.O. BOX 8149
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15217
“a guaranteed minimum livable income for all Black people”
cool! my first thought is whether i qualify. how many “drops” does it take to make one “black”?
This is what I meant about the outermost skin of a “race” movement. At https://policy.m4bl.org/reparations/ it starts off sounding like they’re only talking about blacks getting the money, but eventually they break that down into a limited and debatable racial demand (“A pro-rated additional amount included in a UBI for Black Americans over a specified period of time.”) plus a liberal proposition for a guaranteed income for all (explaining, “it would effectively function as reparations, in a grand bargain with white America: All would benefit, but those who suffered through slavery and continuing racism would benefit slightly more.”)
My feeling is that a butterfly is about ready to hatch out of this pupal case, and it is a liberal butterfly, and it will still be black also. The true solution to injustice is a plan for enduring justice throughout society.
An example of how this demand might be refined is to propose additional subsidies for the employment of those in high-unemployment areas (i.e. black and especially native American) or who have failed to find work over a period of time, plus additional subsidies for those who are unable to find work in those situations, which add up of course to something very similar to what is proposed. There are some ideas they’re presently missing, like making corporate tax high but providing steep exemptions per person hired at a reasonable wage, which could limit the actual tax collection and outlay for all this.
ok, i see they did the same thing with this: “full and free access for all Black people … to lifetime education.” click on the link and they say it’s for everyone. thanks for the correction
if you’ve read through it all, maybe you can tell me if they make any demands on blacks? i think it would greatly enhance their credibility and effectiveness if blacks were to accept some tiny responsibility for their own problems, and not blame it all on white supremacy. i say that knowing it makes me a “racist fuck” but i believe it nonetheless
Can you point to the paragraph in the document that “blames all their problems on white supremacy”?
That seems like a straw man argument.
Because this document isn’t meant as a complete explanation that determines responsibility for all the problems they face.
If you were to ask them, I believe that most in the groups involved would agree with you, although perhaps not on the necessity for including a statement in the document to “enhance their credibility and effectiveness”.
For comparison, I’m not sure a document about how money corrupts politics needs to include a section about how ideology corrupts politics.
They’re related, but they are also separate topics.
And, before you hitch your wagon to the racist general’s train, he has a long and clear record of blatant racism here, of which that comment is an apt example.
Your comment is rather different.
> If you were to ask them, I believe that most in the groups involved would agree with you, although perhaps not on the necessity for including a statement in the document to “enhance their credibility and effectiveness”.
i agree that the statement doesn’t have to be in that document. however i don’t agree that most in blm would accept that blacks are responsible to some extent for the problems they face. i’ve never heard that expressed by any blm activist. and i think most whites are like me in that we’re willing to accept a good deal of the blame, but not all. and we’re not willing to diminish and disrespect blacks by treating them as nothing more than powerless victims who can do nothing to help themselves beyond making demands of others. there have been black movements that emphasized self-reliance; blm should at least include some self-criticism in their program. it would definitely make them more credible and sympathetic to whites, and they obviously need a great deal of support from whites to succeed
There is indeed a vital issue here. It is clear that the spike in murder rates in several cities is taking black lives, and if there’s one thing that Black Lives Matter should believe in, it’s that this matters. I think that the same demon of racism that makes a Klan member get up and say that the lives of blacks are worthless also makes kids shuffle down to the local gang headquarters to make a risky and remarkably poor living on the knife’s edge. As individuals both blacks and whites can believe that black lives are worthless, and obviously it is in the former where this belief is most dangerous.
What these activists should ponder is: who would they trust to talk to about who is killing people in their communities? Who would they trust to do law enforcement? If BLM counterbalances protests against bad police actions with recommendations for trustworthy and unbiased police departments that protect black lives in their communities not just from rogue cops but also from common thugs and gangsters, then they will have a much more solid balance.
OK, I think it’s worth pointing out again that there were 40 groups that created this document… just so we’re on the same page. I was referring to those involved.
That said, I’m not sure what you are basing your conclusions on that BLM activists wouldn’t agree with you.
The BLM movement wants to focus on the problems not of their making, which I believe is understandable, but that doesn’t preclude other beliefs like the one you are talking about.
I’m also not sure anybody has tried to ask the question.
As Wnt pointed out, if you say you’re in BLM, you’re in BLM, so you could join and try to bring attention to tactics that would improve their credibility… or you could ask specific activists to consider your views.
I think how you go about asking and who you asked would determine the reception you’d get, but if you did it with an acknowledgement that there are underlying problems not of their making, you’d probably be pleasantly surprised.
I’m not sure, but assuming the worst isn’t a supportable position until it is proven true.
I am only a supporter of BLM, not an activist or staffer, but I agree with you.
I’m guessing there’s a website where you could post your question and ask for replies… if you do, I hope you share the responses or a summary.
I think the wording you chose in the comment I’m responding to here is a lot better than the initial comment… as far as approachability and a display of your understanding goes… if you want my unsolicited advice. I think people are understandably sensitive about such things. Someone may jump to the conclusion that personal responsibility is all you want them to talk about or what you want them to focus on if you don’t ease into the question carefully.
Along the same lines, I wouldn’t go trying to ask your question during a protest when blood pressures are rising and a calm, cool deliberation is sought.
Maybe a BLM activist will read your comments here and reply without any solicitation?
Oh shit.
Sorry droug.
It was your second comment, not the initial one that I was referring to just now.
I think “”i say that knowing it makes me a “racist fuck” but i believe it nonetheless” may not go over very well… even though I pointed out that I disagree with that self-assessment.
Just trying to be clear.
To be clear, this is a statement by the “Movement for Black Lives Policy Table”, representing fifty smaller organizations — not by “Black Lives Matter”, which is a slogan. Any idiot can yell “Black Lives Matter” in the course of doing anything; it’s as much an organization as “Anonymous”.
It’s worth making this distinction because m4bl.org has clearly gotten together a powerful policy document, full of an impressive level of detail. It is not perfect – for example, their opposition to money bail misses a tremendous amount of work in Kentucky I was reading about that showed the futility of the most discriminatory criteria in predicting future court appearances. It has some highly debatable provisions, such as support for Assata Shakur, which is some amazing history that I would need more convincing to interpret their way.
In general, their attitude is that if they ever take over this plantation they’re going to burn every single last whip, and if you moan about how you need one to order your horse around their attitude is that you should have thought better than to use it on a man then. There are worse attitudes in the world. But it may be a challenge for them to follow it through – for example, they oppose exclusionary discipline in schools based on vague criteria like defiance, but that had better mean they are OK with not expelling or even suspending white kids who start saying the N-word. Nonetheless, they have taken a strong “Black” agenda and universalized it, replacing slave reparations with free education and universal basic income. In this manner they have jettisoned all but the outermost skin of a “race” movement and moved toward the shining goal of an authentic and well-considered radical liberal agenda. The resulting idea for society seems a gentle, civil, and practicable one where indeed the lot of blacks will be most improved, but one with a genuine rising tide that lifts all boats.
Here comes Johnson’s “Great Society” again. End poverty and injustice, right?
Perhaps the Black Lies Matter crowd should throw off their shroud of victimhood and hold themselves accountable. Imagine!
Perhaps when you stick your head in the sand, so you can deny that racism in our society exists, you should leave a gap so the oxygen doesn’t get cut off to your brain.
So…you expect descendants of european immigrants in the mid-late 19th century, who never owned a slave in their lives, some of whom fought to actually liberate slaves, to pay “reparations”? And who is going to pay for that “living wage”? This is BS and it will never happen. And should you try to make it happen, expect a lot of us to start looking at the exits.
Pretty much every sector of our economy is linked to another, in one way or another.
So, the financial benefits to our economy from slave labor affected everybody.
For example, European immigrants in the 19th century almost certainly used roads built by slaves or received wages from a company that profited directly or indirectly from slavery.
Estimates vary, but the economic benefits to our economy from slavery range from 3 to 9 trillion dollars, and even people who immigrated last year are benefiting from it.
In any case, the fight for a living wage is underway, and has already been successful in some parts of the country.
And everybody will benefit from it.
I would need you to explain why you would want to leave the US because everybody received a living wage. That seems very odd to me.
“Pretty much every sector of our economy is linked to another, in one way or another.
So, the financial benefits to our economy from slave labor affected everybody.”
So the descendants of slaves have benefited from slavery.
Job done.
Well, to a certain extent what you say is true.
But the benefits to descendants of slaves were more than offset by lingering costs.
So, job not done.
Yes, about those European immigrants. My ancestors were pioneers who homestraded land stolen from the Indians in the Dakotas. What are your thoughts on that? It is clear you have not read A Vision For Black Lives. It is clear you do not feel empathy for the centuries long struggle endured by descendants of slaves. Reparations are for education. As you say, perhaps, it is time to return to your original homeland. If you stay, please get into the spirit and law of our land. America, united, we stand. There is no longer room for us vs them– we are one people, one nation, indivisible, with liberty AND JUSTICE for all. If you cannot abide by the Constitution, if you cannot extend a helping hand, if you do not care about others, then by all means, return to your original homeland. Or, immigrate to Canada. Sounds like it is definitely time for a fresh start for you. The world you embrace is changing and there won’t be a return to former times. The Millennial generation will see to that.
No shit! “The world wont return to formers times”… well, again, no shit! As the time passes, the actual present is becoming the past and so on…
You cry about something that means very litle to you: your ancestours past and slavery. What I mean, you r crying out for change, becasue that happens to someone who you dont give a shit in your family history. Probably, you dont even give a shit about your mum or father. But, wow, when talk about slavery you put your shinny armor and protect the dead slaves. Why??? Because its convenient for you. You dont care about them…. You couldnt give a litle shit about them… You are just posing in a superflue commodist position
oh, and so hipocryth… your “family” disastears mathers… but when other arent black, their families histories are full of shit to you… Its time to wake up ffs.
Activist?? No: hyprocitcs
Yes, yes, yes! A Vision For Black Lives makes perfect sense and is long overdue. Centuries, overdue! I fully support BLM and congratulate them on this in depth and impressive manifesto. I will write my elected officials. We must make this vision a reality. Thank you, BLM–awesome!
I read “A Vision For Black Lives”–the six categories and urge all readers to do so. The task before us is to make this vision a reality. Heartfelt congratulations to Black Lives Matter. The depth and integrity of BLM is an inspiration to me. You have my full support. I will write my elected officials tomorrow and make sure they support and adopt the changes called for in “A Vision For Black Lives”.
I read “A Vision For Black Lives” –all six categories and urge Intercept readers to do so. The most urgent task before us is to make this vision a reality. I congratulate Black Lives Matter on the depth and integrity of their organization and cannot express the joy I felt in reading each category. This is the America I want. A country where everyone is free. Free from oppression, free from want, treated with respect and generation.
Dressing properly and grooming themselves is something BLM people must pay attention to. They must start mattering to themselves first before others start agreeing with them. Cutting down alcohol and drugs will help.
But first of all I would like to see them cut off the swagger while they walk. It’s very threatening to say the least.
You are a racist fuck.
The well groomed criminals in suits and ties on Wall Street drink and do more drugs than activists from any group.
Of course, your fear of clothing and people walking while black has nothing to do with the document the article is about… it just exemplifies how necessary fundamental changes truly are because of racists like you who are so scared you need to try to distract from discussions on policy.
Did you read the document?
To all –
Think about it, really think about it. This platform is really pretty good. And try not to be short-sighted. Many of the demands and suggestions would/could help many folks of all stripes —- things like getting money out of politics. Don’t let bigotry cloud your eyes; the problems they are talking about probably will not stay “their” problem. The system as is it now is working —- for the elites. We need to all come together to push for change. We can both acknowledge the systemic problems that disproportionally affect persons of color and join the push for change —- and build bridges to one another and broaden the scope of the “resistance.” Don’t reject this platform just because you think if focus on “the other.” Look at the issues this platform tackles really critically and I’ll bet they’ll be at least one that hits home for you.
“Many of the demands and suggestions would/could help many folks of all stripes”
Really… Which ones? List them. Have you noticed that the demands are strictly for black people?
“Don’t reject this platform just because you think if focus on ‘the other.'” Is it that people merely ‘think’ that BLM focuses on ‘the other’ or is it that BLM actually does focus exclusively on the ‘other’??
“We need to all come together to push for change.” I agree entirely; but how is unity accomplished through segregational outrage and demands?
“Have you noticed that the demands are strictly for black people?”
No.
The demands are for and from Americans.
Addressing the injustices persisting in and afflicting the black people and communities in our country benefits all of us.
It is institutionalized and cultural disunity that created the need for these demands.
Black Lives Matter is focusing on the sources of the problems.
If you agree that change and unity is needed, you are acknowledging a shared responsibility.
And you should be outraged too.
“No.
The demands are for and from Americans.”
Really? I must have missed that when every demand I read on the linked website had the descriptor ‘black’ attached to it. Please, as I requested before, list the demands that are “for and from Americans [other than black].”
“Addressing the injustices persisting in and afflicting the black people and communities in our country benefits all of us.”
How? That’s actually not true.
Here’s the true version: Addressing the injustices persisting in and afflicting all people and communities in our country benefits all of us. That covers everyone…black people too.
You’re saying, ‘cleaning one room benefits the whole house.’
I’m saying, ‘cleaning the whole house benefits all rooms.’
“It is institutionalized and cultural disunity that created the need for these demands.”
In an extremely Orwellian twist of irony, these demands specifically argue ***for*** institutionalized and cultural disunity. Demanding racially segregated political power and cultural identity is entirely antithetical to ending institutionalized and cultural disunity.
I’m not sure you are trying to understand, but I will try again.
Let’s take three examples.
Would you agree that having everybody who is capable of working being employed and contributing taxes would also benefit white people?
Would you agree that our governments not paying out massive monetary settlements for police killings that courts determined were unjustified would also benefit white people?
Would you agree that an unbiased law enforcement and justice system that doesn’t disproportionately lock up people of color, thus reducing the expenditures of taxpayer money for incarceration would also benefit white people?
I can see how some of the issues they raise might not directly benefit you personally, but I am arguing that there would be indirect benefits, and like the examples above, addressing some of these issues would directly benefit you.
And I’m not sure how you can deny there would be a personal benefit to you from each of the examples I offered.
These issues are not about “racially segregated political power and cultural identity”.
If I weren’t trying to understand, I wouldn’t be asking questions exploring these seemingly glaring logical inconsistencies. And really, you didn’t respond to the majority of the issues/questions I raised; but let’s delve into your three examples…
“Would you agree that having everybody who is capable of working being employed and contributing taxes would also benefit white people?”
First, it doesn’t matter if the beneficiary is especially white. The issue is that the movement is designed to suggest that the problem of police brutality, jobs, etc. is *more* important concerning black people. So is the stated goal/demand of BLM to directly benefit everyone by employing every capable person of every race, or to indirectly benefit everyone by focusing on black unemployment, killings, etc.?? Second, and to answer the question – not necessarily…in a vacuum, sure.
“Would you agree that our governments not paying out massive monetary settlements for police killings that courts determined were unjustified would also benefit white people?”
Absolutely, but that is not what BLM proposes. BLM proposes that we focus our attention on ‘black killings’ and look to solve cases of ‘black injustice’ first, then the rest will follow. You didn’t mention that part. If the suit-settlement numbers correlate to the actual demographic death tally, then the issue is one that stems from and impacts people of all races. In 2015, 495 white people were killed by police compared to 258 black people killed by police. If those groups file suit in equal proportion, then it stands to reason that focusing your attention on ‘white police killings’ would do more to reduce the taxpayers’ loss. Oddly you note that police killings of black people indirectly affects non-black people’s wallets, and so you suggest that that’s incentive to rally behind focusing on primarily black lives. But you fail to realize/note that all of those other unmentioned cases of police killing non-black people (**the majority of police killings**) directly affect not only their wallets, but their ** lives.**
***But that’s also a red herring because one doesn’t have to racially segregate one’s attention to issues of police brutality, lack of accountability, lack of transparency, and abuse of power in order to achieve change that simultaneously benefits everyone of every race.***
“Would you agree that an unbiased law enforcement and justice system that doesn’t disproportionately lock up people of color, thus reducing the expenditures of taxpayer money for incarceration would also benefit white people?”
Are you suggesting that the problem isn’t all unjustified death/incarceration, but rather the racial disproportion??
So basically, all of your examples are reiterations of the central point that meeting BLM’s demands for segregated racial and political attention will indirectly benefit everyone, therefore it’s not racist or segregational. The enormous problem with this logic is that other racial groups suffer those same problems on their own, and would clearly benefit *directly* and equally by addressing the issue as it truly is – one of corruption, abuse, theft, murder, and near complete unaccountability, lack of transparency and oversight. BLM isn’t primarily striving to solve the totality of the issues that affect everyone. They strive to segregate themselves into a problem/message that primarily impacts themselves above others. Only if one agrees that 2 + 2 = 5, or that war is peace, or that freedom is slavery, or that ignorance is strength, can one agree that BLM is not segregational and self serving.
“These issues are not about ‘racially segregated political power and cultural identity’.” Are you sure about that? If you know anything about BLM, you’d know how wrong you are. From their website demands:
Invest-Divest – We demand investments in the education, health, and safety of Black people, instead of investments in the criminalizing, caging, and harming of Black people.
Political Power – We demand full and independent Black political power and Black self-determination in all areas of society.
Also, there’s a recent BLM protest where an organizer was recorded instructing “I need all white people to move to the back, this is a black and brown resistance march. […] White people to the back, black people to the front. […] If you are for this march and are here to support, you will appropriately take your place in the back of this march.”
Again, your logic is: ‘cleaning one room indirectly benefits the whole house.’
Sound logic is: ‘cleaning the whole house directly benefits all rooms.’
These demands specifically Orwellianly argue ***for*** institutionalized and cultural disunity. Demanding racially segregated political power and cultural identity is entirely antithetical to ending institutionalized and cultural disunity.
So, your argument boils down to “they aren’t addressing all problems, so we shouldn’t address their problems”
I’m guessing you don’t understand why “All Lives Matter” is missing the point too?
I don’t see an attempt at understanding. Just word pretzels to justify not even trying.
Your crap is head in the sand denialism with a heavy dose of projection.
No, my argument is ‘they are only addressing a portion of the problem through racial segregation; so we shouldn’t entertain counterproductive and segregational movements.’ I directly noted how to address their problems. I guess you hear what you want to hear.
I didn’t argue that ‘BLM is missing the point.’ I argued that BLM is a segregational organization that seeks to serve itself above all others. I get that ‘all lives matter’ offends people, it just doesn’t matter.
“I don’t see an attempt at understanding. Just word pretzels to justify not even trying. Your crap is head in the sand denialism with a heavy dose of projection.”
So you hear what you want to hear and see what you want to see. And unfortunately you decided to disregard a civil argument discussing the merits of the points raised for the sake of utilizing ridicule. Are you out of gas or do you just have a propensity to be caustic?
I point out you are projecting, and your response is that I hear what I want to hear.
And your caustic ramblings followed by an accusation that I am caustic is icing on the cake.
Irony without subtlety.
No, you didn’t ‘point out’ anything. You just made that accusation without explanation or support…seemingly based on some bastardization of my intended meaning. Read above. In a discussion about whether or not BLM’s demands are racially segregated, you made the assertion that my “argument boils down to ‘they aren’t addressing all problems, so we shouldn’t address their problems’” as a response to my statement that “BLM isn’t primarily striving to solve the totality of the issues that affect everyone. They strive to segregate themselves into a problem/message that primarily impacts themselves above others.”
Now, perhaps I poorly worded my statement or perhaps you lost the context of that statement in your rush to judgement, but since we know that BLM’s existence and demands stemmed from and center on police brutality/unaccountability et al., the “issues/problems” that I cite are limited to those that BLM suggests in its demands as being a ‘black affliction.’ There’s no doubt that those issues affect black people, but the truth is that those problems aren’t relegated to black people. Even so, BLM strives to solve the ‘black portion’ of the problem as its central focus. Their issue is not that Americans’ civil rights are being violated, and they don’t seek to protect Americans’ civil rights (which would inherently achieve their goals). Their issue is that black Americans’ civil rights are being violated, and they seek to protect black Americans’ civil rights. That is what their website’s front-page demands clearly outline. That is my point. That has been my argument the whole time. My issue was/is **not** that BLM ‘isn’t fighting for all the problems I think are important in the world,’ or that BLM ‘isn’t striving to solve nuclear proliferation.’ The issue is that BLM is a movement that is built on and promotes racial segregation…as they prove through racially selecting their acknowledgement of, and response to, the specific issues they raise.
There’s nothing caustic in any of my well-established argument. I haven’t been insulting, I didn’t call you any names, I didn’t use vulgarity, I didn’t make any accusations or attacks, I didn’t center my arguments around you or your comprehension, I didn’t judge your motives. There’s nothing you can cite to support your snide deflection. I’ve only offered points and counterpoints in an attempt to establish the veracity of the claim about BLM’s demands.
-You- are being caustic…and at times insulting. “I’m not sure you are trying…” “I’m guessing you don’t understand” “I don’t see an attempt at understanding. Just word pretzels to justify not even trying.” “Your crap…”
Don’t throw stones from a glass house.
Like I said.
Denial and projection.
“bastardization of my intended meaning” is what you are doing with BLM… projection.
And, yet, you don’t think that’s caustic behavior… denial.
I have to say though, I love how you quote me, insist I’m wrong, and then word pretzel yourself into proving me right.
You not realizing you’re doing it is even better.
The nerve of BLM not addressing all the problems in the world.
Here’s an easy one for you-
Quote the part of my comment where I deny being caustic or insulting.
Then ask yourself what could make you deserving of such treatment.
(see above for a hint)
I realize introspection and self-analysis may not be your strong suits, but try.
And amazingly, you still **choose** to not address any of the substance in favor of continuing your ad hominem tirade. And that’s completely transparent.
‘“bastardization of my intended meaning” is what you are doing with BLM’
How??? Show your work.
I made a concise observation that BLM’s own demands in their own words show that BLM’s demands are *not* ‘from and for Americans’ as you so wrongly and feverishly assert. You, on the other hand, either didn’t even read my response, or feel comfortable enough to continue your inaccurate (bastardized) interpretation of my actually statement. To show you how absurd this is getting….
“The nerve of BLM not addressing all the problems in the world.” -Your straw man
My actual response – “since we know that BLM’s existence and demands stemmed from and center on police brutality/unaccountability et al.,
—–the “issues/problems” that I cite are limited to those that BLM suggests in its demands as being a ‘black affliction.’—–
There’s no doubt that those issues affect black people, but the truth is that those problems aren’t relegated to black people. Even so, BLM strives to solve the ‘black portion’ of the problem as its central focus. Their issue is not that Americans’ civil rights are being violated, and they don’t seek to protect Americans’ civil rights (which would inherently achieve their goals). Their issue is that black Americans’ civil rights are being violated, and they seek to protect black Americans’ civil rights. That is what their website’s front-page demands clearly outline. That is my point. That has been my argument the whole time.
—–My issue was/is **not** that BLM ‘isn’t fighting for all the problems I think are important in the world,’ or that BLM ‘isn’t striving to solve nuclear proliferation.’ The issue is that BLM is a movement that is built on and promotes racial segregation…as they prove through racially selecting their acknowledgement of, and response to, the specific issues they raise.—–”
Notice that I address *every* one of your points with logic and citation without berating or insulting you.
You seem to ignore the points against which you can’t successfully argue, so you stick insults.
Re: Your insults only serve to show that you’re driven by emotion, rather than reason. If you have any point worth anything, then it should stand on its own without your personal attacks. Address the points like a reasonable person, or stop engaging. I’m not interested in throwing shit around.
“built on and promotes racial segregation”- your interpretation with obvious projection… not what BLM says.
And, not compatible with the examples I offered or reality… without word pretzel nonsense and denial.
“they aren’t fighting for everyone’s civil rights”
Word pretzel proving my point above.
Your accusations are hypocritical.
You don’t want your shit thrown back at you, but I will continue to engage as I see fit.
It’s beyond your control.
I shouldn’t have to point out the obvious.
And you do realize you are ignoring my actual points above right?
Do as I say, not as I do?
Is that what you mean by reason?
‘“built on and promotes racial segregation”- your interpretation with obvious projection… not what BLM says.’ Ok let’s see if you’re right. This is from BLM’s website:
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————
“We demand an end to the named and unnamed wars on Black people – including the criminalization, incarceration, and killing of our people. (Notice that “Black people” is the only descriptor, and it’s a racial descriptor)
We demand reparations for harms inflicted on Black people: from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance. (Notice that “Black people” is the only descriptor, and it’s a racial descriptor)
We demand investments in the education, health and safety of Black people, instead of investments in the criminalizing, caging, and harming of Black people. (Notice that “Black people” is the only descriptor, and it’s a racial descriptor)
We demand economic justice for all and a reconstruction of the economy to ensure Black communities have collective ownership, not merely access. (This is the only demand that mentions anyone other than black, but then quickly returns to segregating itself to highlight their request that “Black communities have collective ownership”)
We demand a world where those most impacted in our communities control the laws, institutions, and policies that are meant to serve us. (“our communities” -to whom does that refer?)
We demand full and independent Black political power and Black self-determination in all areas of society.” (Notice that “Black people” is the only descriptor, and it’s a racial descriptor)
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————
If you know what ‘segregate’ means, then explain to me how only acknowledging/highlighting *one* race’s place in problems that clearly affect everyone and how demanding that focus and policy should center on “Black people” does not fulfill the criteria of being ‘built on and promoting racial segregation’.
You contend that their demands are “for and from Americans” but the only thing you’ve offered to support that notion is that BLM’s demands would ***indirectly*** benefit all other people; therefore, regardless of how many times BLM excludes mention of anyone other than black, and no matter how much they propose demands that exclusively lists black people as being the purpose and beneficiary, you think that doesn’t constitute racial segregation????
That logic is tantamount to saying that ‘the Klan isn’t segregational because their demands for free speech indirectly benefit everyone.’
I didn’t ignore any of your points. I successfully addressed and refuted all of them ——without ad hominem garbage.
In other words, you failed to come up with a single use of the words in your interpretation.
Not one.
Denial and projection.
Ahhh right….and the Sky isn’t blue because it isn’t labelled; and Donald Trump isn’t a xenophobic bigot because he didn’t say he was. Your response is classic non-sequitur. BLM doesn’t have to state that they’re built on and promoting racial segregation in order for that to be the case. And clearly, I laid out BLM’s own racially segregated wording to support that case…which you ignored.
Again, if you know what ‘segregate’ means, then explain to me how only acknowledging/highlighting *one* race’s place -in problems that clearly affect everyone- and how demanding that focus and policy should center on “Black people” does not fulfill the criteria of being ‘built on and promoting racial segregation’.
Expressions of ignorance such as that is what being a talking points robot who is too lazy to read what they’re pretending to be expressing an educated opinion about results in. You’re still going to have to read the documents and literature if you’d like to try not making a total fool of yourself.
Re:
You don’t afford yourself any intellectual credibility by making irrelevant, false assumptions ad hominem.
Do you have a problem arguing the merits of my point, or are you only interested in the intellectually fraudulent game of ‘ridicule and run’?? Do you have any way to contradict my assertion with facts??
Will you address a single point/question I raised???
Look down thread. I already addressed your idiocy. But since you seem incapable of reading and comprehending anything but your own tripe I’ll quote again what I quoted below:
“An end to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and a renegotiation of all trade agreements to prioritize the interests of workers”
So do you see now how fucking wantonly ignorant you are, and how determined you are to remain wantonly ignorant ?
Ok I looked down thread, and nowhere in any of your insult -laden responses to me have you mentioned that statement. You didn’t “already address” anything. Now my question is: How is does that extraneous statement answer any of the questions I raised, or how is it relevant to what I/we’ve been talking about?
Also, seriously, why are you being so nasty?
Yes.
See my previous comment about TPP.
And:
“We demand economic justice for all”
And:
“The right for workers to organize in public and private sectors especially in “On Demand Economy” jobs.”
And:
“Protections for workers in industries that are not appropriately regulated including domestic workers, farm workers, and tipped workers,”
And:
“A divestment from industrial multinational use of fossil fuels and investment in community- based sustainable energy solutions.”
And:
“A cut in military expenditures and a reallocation of those funds to invest in domestic infrastructure and community well-being.”
And:
“Direct democratic community control of local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies, ensuring that communities most harmed by destructive policing have the power to hire and fire officers, determine disciplinary action, control budgets and policies, and subpoena relevant agency information.”
I could go on with so much more but in this comment I won’t because “debating” with someone who hasn’t been making any effort to comprehensively read what Alice Speri has written and, as far as I can tell, hasn’t comprehensively read any of the “Demands,” is futile.
So, hopefully, what I’ve listed will encourage others to take the time to open the link to the documents and to open the many other links within the documents, and then begin reading them or continue reading them.
Ok, so to be clear, let’s see the assertion to which you’re responding.
‘“Many of the demands and suggestions would/could help many folks of all stripes”
Me >>> ‘Really… Which ones? List them. List the demands that are “for and from Americans [other than black].”‘
You listed *your version* of the actual demands. Here’s BLM’s own abridged version from the link (which you incessantly and wrongly claim I didn’t read) that Alice posted:
We demand an end to the named and unnamed wars on Black people – including the criminalization, incarceration, and killing of our people.
We demand reparations for harms inflicted on Black people: from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance.
We demand investments in the education, health and safety of Black people, instead of investments in the criminalizing, caging, and harming of Black people.
We demand economic justice for all and a reconstruction of the economy to ensure Black communities have collective ownership, not merely access.
We demand a world where those most impacted in our communities control the laws, institutions, and policies that are meant to serve us.
We demand full and independent Black political power and Black self-determination in all areas of society.
That’s not for ‘folks of all stripes.’ That’s for black people. It’s right there. In BLM’s own print. They’re not doing this ‘for all people,’ not even indirectly. This is a completely segregational movement. It’s the foundation of the entire movement.
Clearly I not only read this article (and its link), I also read Alice’s previous work – which is how I know that she’s a Vice News retiree/firee. But please, continue to grasp at straws and attack my character instead of the merits my point.
No, asshole. Again you’ve shown that you don’t comprehensively read and that you’re desperate to believe the horse shit you’ve chosen to bury yourself with. Those quotes that I posted, which you might notice all have quotation marks around them, which to a less obtuse person other than yourself would indicate that they are quotes, which they are. are, in fact, exact quotes from the documents that Alice linked to; not my “version of the actual demands.”
Ah, but how quickly you forget…I asked you to “list the demands that are for and from Americans [other than black].”
I didn’t assert that those quotes aren’t from BLM. It’s **your** version because you deliberately chose to obfuscate BLM’s clearly outlined front page ***racially segregated*** demands. Everything you listed *expounds* their segregational demands. Their demands are not “for and from Americans [other than black].”
Re: Seriously, why are you being so nasty? I don’t have to call you a dumb asshole to prove you’re wrong. Your complete lack of a cogent argument does that for me.
My argument, which has been 100% correct all along about the documents, is not only that but also that you’re a vile person who in the year 2016 wants to believe that systemic racism hasn’t existed for centuries and wants to deny that it still exists today on a huge scale. I simply can’t stand people who not only stand by and allow that to continue, but even appear in news sources such as this in order to produce lies and play ignorant when the facts are pointed out to them. Makes no difference to me that you’re a name on the internet, the robot making the comments that you’ve made disgusts me.
Kitt, you’re flailing…and you don’t have to. Do you not even remember how your long insulting chain of *responses* came about? Someone made the assertion that BLM’s demands are ‘for and from everyone.’ You inserted yourself to the contrary, and so I asked you to cite list of BLM’s demands to prove that **the central purpose of BLM’s demands is that they’re for and from everyone.** The only thing you listed was a small selection of their expanded section. The entire expansion is predicated on the 6 front-page demands. Those 6 front page demands are the foundational basis for all their other expansions. So what are their main demands in BLM’s own words???
“We demand an end to the named and unnamed wars on Black people – including the criminalization, incarceration, and killing of our people.
We demand reparations for harms inflicted on Black people: from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance.
We demand investments in the education, health and safety of Black people, instead of investments in the criminalizing, caging, and harming of Black people.
We demand economic justice for all and a reconstruction of the economy to ensure Black communities have collective ownership, not merely access.
We demand a world where those most impacted in our communities control the laws, institutions, and policies that are meant to serve us.
We demand full and independent Black political power and Black self-determination in all areas of society.”
How can you possibly still argue such a poor twist of logic? Do you think “Black people” = “everyone”?? If not, then clearly by reading BLM’s own summarized demands, you can see that those demands are (as I stated earlier) strictly for black people.
Furthermore, where did I say that systemic racism doesn’t/didn’t exist?? Cite it, I’ll wait……….Oh, right…I NEVER said that, nor do I believe it. You simply made that up. Stop dragging herring to your straw men. Your last two sentences are certainly the most ironic -your argumentative behavior is completely typical of classic sock puppetry; replete with ridicule, deflection, avoidance, lies, and mostly arguments ad hominem. Well done, Kitt..
Most Black people I know are very happy to live in the US. Wanna know why? They don’t rob liquor stores or antagonize the police. They simply go to work everyday and don’t pay attention to political nonsense designed to make them hate. And in the comments that are sure to follow: where I work it is almost 40% Black. Everyone for the most part seems to get along fine.
Are you willing to share the questions and results from the poll you conducted?
You could help further the discussion.
Maybe you could start by defining “most”… do you mean 51%?
In a 2016 PEW poll, it was determined that:
Only 40% of blacks polled “strongly supported” Black Lives Matter, yet only 33% of Blacks reported that they actually understand what the goals of BLM are. Lastly, only 20% of the blacks polled believe that Black Lives Matter “will be very effective in helping blacks achieve equality.”
In contrast, only 14% of whites report that they “strongly supported” Black Lives Matter. And only 12% of whites reported that they understand what the goals of Black Lives Matter are. Lastly, only 6% of the whites polled believe that Black Lives Matter “will be very effective in helping blacks achieve equality.”
________
Again, the same poll reported that only 40% of blacks believed that racism was “built into laws and institutions.” Whereas the majority 48% believe that racism merely reflects the “prejudice of individuals.”
In contrast, only 19% of the whites polled believed that racism was “built into laws and institutions.” Whereas the majority 70% believe that racism merely reflects the “prejudice of individuals.”
______
Over 50% of the blacks polled believe that Obama has made race relations worse. Whereas 28% of the whites polled believe that Obama has made race relations worse
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/06/27/on-views-of-race-and-inequality-blacks-and-whites-are-worlds-apart/
Is there a point you think you are making by posting partial poll results?
Would you rather I post the entire poll? Just follow the link.
In regard to the point that I was attempting to make – The MAJORITY of whites and blacks do not buy in to the Soros funded divisiveness of the Black Lives Matter movement. Even a Pew poll – with all of its built-in liberal bias – couldn’t skew the numbers enough to suggest that the majority of black people buy into the specious claim that America’s laws and/or institutions are intrinsically racist. Malinois’ stated impressions are quite accurate. Of course, a person like yourself will call for proofs (e.g. polling results) until they fail to reflect your own position and then you will act as if you do not get the point. Different day, same Mona.
Way to miss the clue about the partial poll results…
You exclude those in the poll who somewhat support BLM and only count those who strongly support BLM, and then claim a majority do not support them?
Selective use of polling data to support a false conclusion is called LYING.
I can see why Mona gets under your skin so easily, but thanks for the compliment anyway idiot.
I quoted the poll results verbatim. Secondly, I included a link in a sincere effort to provide all readers with ready access to the source material itself. As the polling data I used was picked to concisely express the point that I was attempting to make, including extraneous polling data would have been counter productive. Again, only 33% of the blacks polled reported that they actually understand what the goals of BLM are. And only 12% of whites reported that they understand what the goals of Black Lives Matter are. How then could a higher percentage of each claim to support the movement?
You first have to be able to recognize the obvious before “pointing it out” to others Mona.
No, you selectively quoted the poll and left out the part shows you are Lying.
There’s nothing sincere about anything you’ve written here.
I’ll address your other counter productive claim that is extraneous to the point you think you were refuting though.
Insisting that only people who understand the physics and engineering of rocket science can support our exploration of Mars would also be ridiculous.
Is that comparison obvious enough, idiot?
There we have it folks… a false analogy when all else fails. What more can one expect from an attorney of Mona’s moral stature? Whenever you see her resort to such devices you can take solace in the fact that she has thrown in the towel. But when that surrender is accompanied by naked insult you should exalt in the fact that she has just paid you the highest compliment as that is clear evidence that she is at her wit’s end (which in her case is always a short journey).
An idiot with no capacity to understand an analogy doesn’t make it false.
Your flattery never ends, but unlike Mona, I’m not an attorney.
Are you giving up on falsely insisting that the majority of black people don’t support BLM?
And the other nonsense too?
In other words, surrendering?
Thank you… mimicry is the highest form of flattery.
So, that’s a “yes”?
That’s certainly what it looks like.
I have no way of knowing who these “black people you know” are, or even if you really “know” any black people. But perhaps, if there is any truth in what you’ve written, then “most black people you know” are house Negroes.
Malcolm X: “I’m a field Negro”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg5uQQw2leU
Kitt…these “house negroes” work at jobs for a living and you have no way of knowing who they are because you live your life behind a computer trolling comment sections. Your name is EVERYWHERE AT ALL TIMES ON THIS WEBSITE!!!!! Get outside from time to time and live in the real world with the rest of us.
That doesn’t make any sense. I have no way of knowing who they are because all they are as far as I know, or any one knows, is a figment of your imagination. It should be obvious, even to you, that what does make sense is that you don’t know who I am or what I do for a living, or any of the other activities that fill my life. I’ll decline the offer to spend anytime with you, though. Guaranteed. But unlike your happy black people of your anecdote, I’m at least speaking for myself. By the way, the House Negroes Malcolm X referred to worked for a living.
Wrong again Kitt. The original “house niggers” to whom Malcolm X referred were slaves that lived in their master’s house and who could be trusted to reflect their master’s worldview in a way that undermined their own innate right of self determination. And again, the comparison of those slaves to modern day blacks living in America was made in context to Malcolm’s express views on black separatism. He was arguing that those blacks who lived within American society at that time were comparable to “house niggers” by virtue of the fact that they did not agree with his own default position that black should separate themselves from American society as a precondition for empowerment. Such statements were intended as a rhetorical device (false dilemma) as they were meant to impose on their listener the necessity of choosing sides. In short, Malcom X was saying, “You are either with us, or against us.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kf7fujM4ag
No fucking shit?
There is no end to how lame of a comment you’ll post to defend your indefensible rose colored world view.
“Where you going to get a better job than what you get here in America?” — The “house Negroes” as quoted by Malcolm X from the video you linked to.
And do you really think the House Negro Malcolm X referred to in the video I linked did nothing all day in his “master’s” house?
I hate bothering to reply to you. The bull shit you post is so deep in stench that the odor remains in my nostrils for some while after having dug myself out of it.
Oh Kitt, your arguments are like shifting sand. The “house niggers” to whom you were referring were allegedly those blacks that Malinois claimed to know; beyond the fact that you have absolutely no idea of the status of those to whom he referred, your use of the term “house nigger” was ill applied as was your reference to Malcom X. Unless you are now asserting that any black who does not unquestionably support the aims of the Black Lives Matter movement (black separatism) is a “house nigger”…
I’m looking at every comment you have made in this comment section and the time you made them. You literally are on this comment section all day long. Pretty sad way to live a life
Just wanted to point out that in this article it is mentioned that the BLM states that they are not affiliated with any political party. However, the leader of BLM has taken money from the DNC as was discovered in the hacked e-mails released by Wikileaks.
I haven’t searched to see if Wikileaks’ emails included what you’ve claimed, but either way, Deray McKesson isn’t “the leader” of Black Lives Matter, or the author of these documents. I see that your source, freerepublic, is as destructive to critical thinking as it ever was.
Another fallacious argument by Kitt. First of all, a Google search of the terms “‘Deray McKesson’ Wikileaks” readily reveals the email in question (top return). Yet Kitt manages to speciously attribute this Wikileaks disclosure to a website that he feels can be summarily dismissed for its lack of integrity; fucking comical. More interesting still is the Email itself as it shows that the only interest the DNC has in Black Lives Matter (in the person of Deray McKesson) is its ability to affect immediately desirable outcomes favorable to its own political ends in the current election cycle.
https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/782
Why do you fucking lie so often, especially when your lie can be shown to be a lie just by reading the comment to which you are lying about?
I didn’t claim to search for the Wikileaks email, because, frankly, I don’t care if DNC and McKesson exchanged money. McKesson is not someone I trust or respect. He’s a good speaker but unfortunately he’s in deep with the money handlers. This is well known among many who are in the fight for black lives. What I did claim, and what is true, is that I did find that it is freerepublic who is falsely referring to McKesson as “the leader of Black Lives Matter.” Look it the hell up yourself, you lying cockroach.
As for McKesson and as for the DNC, I have no regard for either of them, so why in the fuck are you pretending that I give a god damn about defending them. What I do care about is the lie that freerepublic (and probably others) are telling and spreading about McKesson being “the leader of BLM. That kind of dishonesty pisses me off. It would piss you off too if prolific lying weren’t one of your favorite things to do and to pass on.
I never said that you did. However its inclusion would have shed critical light on the relationship between the DNC and those who are identified as being “leading” spokespersons for the Black Lives Matter movement. In reflexively dismissing Dennis’ claim that “BLM has taken money from the DNC,” you admittedly failed to even examine the credible evidence he presented that informed that opinion. In fact, Dennis’ claim stands unrefuted albeit McKesson is not one of its founding leaders. It does not matter whether you personally trust or respect McKesson; he has been given a very influential platform by Salon, the NY Times, the Huffington Post, and the Guardian.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/us/deray-mckesson-arrested-in-baton-rouge-protest.html
It is very interesting that of all the media platforms through which McKesson has been allowed to promote Black Lives Matters, you chose that one that was easiest to dismiss.
If you are going to call me a liar, then at least have the balls to articulate the purported lie to which you refer.
That’s why I fucking hate replying to you.
Listen carefully: I don’t give a fuck if McKesson took funds from DNC
I don’t, and did not, when reading Dennis claim, doubt that it was a possibility.
What I took issue with in Dennis’ comment was this claim, “the leader of BLM.” That’s all right there in my reply to Dennis. But you had to play stupid and pretend not to understand. “The leader of BLM” is what I searched for. And, sure enough, it showed up coming out of freerepublic, in those exact words.
Addressing your lies is something I’ve done again and again. The list is long, and I have no desire to waste time repeating so that you can post bull shit comments like the one you just posted, wherein I had to correct your lying assessment–again– of what I’d written in my comment. I make my self clear to others, but you, after reading any number of my comments, pretend not to understand and you distort what I’ve written and or address something I hadn’t written as if I had. It’s a damned waste of time. It’s a game you play. I suspect you’ve been playing it your entire adult life … or longer.
Considering the lack of critical analysis of BLM and their demands, and that Alice Speri is a Vice News retiree…this article seems to indicate that TI has been coopted by the pseudo-news propagandists that have been destroying critical thought and reason over the past few years.
“Critical analysis?” I doubt that you’ve read a single line from the 50 organizations and all else that can be viewed, read, examined, sourced and downloaded from what Alice Speri linked to in the article.
So, you’re under the impression that linking to a source is the same as writing a critical analysis?? Doubt all you want, but it’s your own projection and has nothing to do with what I said.
Why do you dim witted “talking points” machine” types so often pretend to be even more stupid than your comments indicate.
I can’t be any more clear than I was, so I won’t repeat my comment. You obviously haven’t bothered to read anything of what this article is about, which can be found in the links, much less work on an analysis of anything that this article is about. The first step in analyzing something that has been written is to actually spend time reading it.
That’s some excellent deflective character assassination, but you responded very poorly to the actual points I raised. I’m also surprised at the ease with which you’re able to profile my ‘type’ by reading two sentences.
But I digress; perhaps I poorly worded my original statement. It should have read:
Considering **HER** lack of critical analysis of BLM and their demands, and that –Alice Speri- is a Vice News retiree…-this article- seems to indicate that TI has been coopted by the pseudo-news propagandists that have been destroying critical thought and reason over the past few years.
My issue isn’t that there’s no existence of critical analysis in the world concerning BLM. My issue is that Alice Speri offered no critical analysis of the movement, its demands, nor the glaring contradictions that arise in their message/existence…and in failing to do so, she offers nothing more than ad space at best, and an endorsement at worst.
PS – You don’t afford yourself any intellectual credibility by making irrelevant, false assumptions ad hominem.
LOL! Kitt has made another friend I see.
Yes, know that was your so called point. And it’s so fucking stupid there was and is nothing in it to debate or discuss. It’s an asinine diversion from an article which brought attention to several pages of information.
You’re an idiot. Adding a couple few more words to your “commentary” to prove that you’re an idiot, as you have done in your above comment, strengthened that case you’ve made for yourself.
You clearly didn’t know what the point is…as is evident by your citing Alice’s source. And you clearly seem to not care; as is evident by your using immediate dismissal and ridicule to supplant inquiry and reasoned response.
My point stands on its own as a direct comment on this divisive poor excuse for journalism….that is the point. You’ve offered nothing of value to support your caustic opposition to what I wrote other than some Trumpian emotional tirade.
Do you have a problem arguing the merits of my point, or are you only interested in the intellectually fraudulent game of ‘ridicule and run’?? Do you have any way to contradict my assertion with facts??
Perhaps you could provide your “critical analysis” on the document and lead by example?
While you’re at it, throw in your definition of journalism too.
Please be sure to include the roles of critical thought and reason.
Thanks.
I could, but why should I??? Do I work for TI?? If I don’t do Alice’s work for her, does that mean my point has no merit?? Address the substance. Which part of my claim is wrong and why?..or which part requires further clarification?
Please don’t try to obfuscate the basis of journalism -unbiased, investigative, and comprehensive reporting of facts -by questioning my understanding of the definition.
Thanks. You’re welcome.
The point I was hoping you’d get is that you are criticizing the mailman for not picking up your garbage.
“the basis of journalism -unbiased, investigative, and comprehensive reporting of facts”
Which part requires critical analysis?
Are you not asking for her expert opinion on the report rather than just the facts?
That’s a very poor analogy. I’m criticizing the mailman for choosing not to deliver all the mail…while giving the impression that all mail has been delivered. Alice made assertions without investigating whether or not they’re true/accurate.
‘The platform[…] was developed on the premise that “the U.S. is a country that does not support, protect or preserve Black life.”’ Alice doesn’t question or challenge this very central belief to the entire movement. One would think that verifying the legitimacy of the basis of a movement, whose stated goals have enormous political and social impact, would be relevant to informative comprehensive reporting.
Two small examples:
“While “A Vision for Black Lives” is grounded in the experience of black Americans, its scope includes a number of marginalized groups and gives a nod to global problems.” This ‘nod’ has no qualitative meaning, is not expounded, and seems to be incidental rather than intentional due to the segregational list of demands (which are central to the movement).
No, I’m not asking for her expert opinion…If I write a piece explaining that the US says it needs to invade Iraq on the premise that Iraq has WMDs, is it not incumbent upon me as a journalist to at least explore the question of whether or not Iraq actually possesses WMDs?? If I don’t, I’m simply creating ad space for the US government’s foreign policy.
Again, if I don’t do Alice’s work for her, does that mean my point has no merit?? Address the substance. Which part of my claim is wrong and why?..or which part requires further clarification?
Again, if I don’t do Alice’s work for her, does that mean my point has no merit?? Address the substance. Which part of my claim is wrong and why?..or which part requires further clarification?
I think my analogy was apt.
If you think the legitimacy of the platform is suspect, I will gladly consider your analysis.
Expecting others, including Alice, to agree with you without any substance behind the supposed basis for your questioning of the legitimacy of the platform, the burden is on you.
Saying it’s wrong doesn’t make it wrong.
I believe unbiased people who are paying attention recognize the problems are real.
Make your case.
You analogy is not apt. I certainly never argued that the problem of the article is that Alice doesn’t vindicate my opinions.
I absolutely think the legitimacy of the platform is suspect, but that’s not the issue I raised. In easily noting the logical inconsistencies within the movement, it’s not absurd to think that the journalist (who’s attempting to inform me) might touch on the possibility that those claims don’t hold water. As I said before:
“I’m not asking for her expert opinion…If I write a piece explaining that the US says it needs to invade Iraq on the premise that Iraq has WMDs, is it not incumbent upon me as a journalist to at least explore the question of whether or not Iraq actually possesses WMDs?? If I don’t, I’m simply creating ad space for the US government’s foreign policy.”
In our above conversation, I clearly stated the case of how Alice’s article does nothing more than lend ad space to the movement because she takes (and sometimes reiterates) their claims at face value without exploring the possibility that the claims are illegitimate. There’s nothing investigative about the piece. One would think that verifying the legitimacy of the basis of a movement, ***whose stated goals have enormous political and social impact,*** would be relevant to informative comprehensive reporting.
And I never qualified anything as ‘wrong.’
Case made…respond to those points.
You may be the first I’ve come across where reading comprehension issues are matched by writing comprehension issues.
You not understanding your own writing is bizarre.
When you make accusations without in any way supporting them with examples, those accusations don’t really carry much merit.
Nowhere in your snarky personal attack did I see you respond to the points. Why is that??
Because only you think you made points worthy of a response.
Maybe some day you’ll figure out the rest, but I doubt anybody will celebrate when you do.
“…points worthy of a response.”
Your deciding what’s ‘worthy’ enough to which to respond, in what should be a civil argument, is a hallmark of narcissism or intellectual cowardice. Your insults only serve to show that you’re driven by emotion, rather than reason. If you have any point worth anything, then it should stand on its own without your personal attacks. Address the points like a reasonable person, or stop engaging. I’m not interested in throwing shit around.
Sorry.
It should have read-
Because only you think you made “points” worthy of a response.
Anyway, I wasn’t deciding for everybody, just myself.
But, it may be worth noting that nobody else thought your “points” worthy of a response.
Funny, eh?
And, I’m going to keep engaging your crap as I see fit… but, I think what you mean is that you’re not interested in having your shit thrown back at you.
Re: Your insults only serve to show that you’re driven by emotion, rather than reason. If you have any point worth anything, then it should stand on its own without your personal attacks. Address the points like a reasonable person, or stop engaging. I’m not interested in throwing shit around.
Like I said earlier.
Writing comprehension issues.
Is your unwillingness to respond to my response to your question your justification for repeating yourself?
Obviously, you think your shit don’t stink.
Very dishonest.
Re: Re: Your insults only serve to show that you’re driven by emotion, rather than reason. If you have any point worth anything, then it should stand on its own without your personal attacks. Address the points like a reasonable person, or stop engaging. I’m not interested in throwing shit around.
Altohone (AKA Mona) is a master of logical fallacy (in this case false analogies). Do you notice how she anticipates your next argument in the attempt to use it against you? For instance, in simply claiming that she believes her own analogy to be apt (using oneself as a source of authority for ones own arguments is yet another logical fallacy), she anticipates that the appropriate opposing response will be, “Simply saying it’s right doesn’t make it wrong.” Her whole goal is to cloud the obvious validity of your own arguments. She has no respect for truth, the people that she purports to defend, or the people with whom she takes issue. In short, she is an attorney.
Correction:
“Simply saying it’s right doesn’t make it wrong.”
should have read
“Simply saying it’s right doesn’t make it right.”
Idiot.
You have no grasp on reality, let alone logic.
But, as always, comparing me to Mona is flattering.
Yes, I definitely see that your own self reflection would invoke that response. All narcissistic sociopaths feel the same way.
I’m very familiar with this M.O.; but I’m a firm believer in the old adage, “give a man enough rope…”
Climbing into bed with a lying idiot doesn’t help your cause.
But then, you two seem to have quite a lot in common.
So now you think that responding to someone’s comment = getting into bed with them?? If that’s the case, then when do you and I get married??
Rope, a bed, and Mona… now there is an image that would titillate William P Blatty.
Responding and licking his balls are rather different concepts.
Sure….but only one of those things actually happened. The other is apparently something only you’re thinking about. Anyway, I’m not sure what audience you’re attempting to sway with your homophobic mockery; it certainly isn’t helping you.
“While the number of mostly black and brown people killed by police continued to grow…”
You should look that one up, Ms. Speri.
Yes, the frame of reference for this claim is all important. If one is referring to the number of blacks as a percent of the population, then the rate has been going steadily downward for fifty years. If one actually looks at the violent crime statistics as they relate to race, then it becomes clear that white suspects are more likely to become the victims of police shootings then blacks; this holds true simply because blacks commit a disproportionate share of the violent crimes.
Um, are you claiming police didn’t kill any more black or brown people after that point?
Ms. Speri is correct.
And, anybody paying attention even a little bit knows it’s true.
If you think she was talking about a statistically significant year on year increase because you are predisposed to that interpretation when the word “number” is used (I’m guessing there), I would suggest that she probably would have chosen her words differently.
If you yourself are “guessing” about what Ms. Speri meant when she used the word “number”, How can you emphatically declare that “Ms. Speri is correct. And, anybody paying attention even a little bit knows it’s true.”?
Numbnuts-
My guess was about Macroman’s interpretation.
You are an idiot.
“Absent a reasonable alternate explanation”
Being an idiot, you may not recognize the specificity and clear meaning of the English that Ms. Speri used.
If 250 black and brown people were killed by police this year, the number of black and brown people killed by police has grown by 250.
I’m not the least bit surprised an idiot like you can’t grasp such an obvious and simple meaning.
And yet you yourself feel compelled to cite the number of 250 when the actual number of unarmed blacks killed by police in 2016 stands at 26 – which is a significant decrease in the rate. Absent a number, her statement is obscure to the point of meaningless.
Hence the word “if”, idiot.
Is English your second language?
Her statement remains accurate.
And, you’re also changing the parameters of her statement.
people aren’t marching for all this stuff, they’re marching for police shootings. not that they wouldn’t like those things but that’s not why they’re out there
Removing the so-called ‘free trade agreements’ is absolutely necessary to any real reform in the United States; this doesn’t affect just black people, but also poor whites, Latinos, Asians and Native Americans.
Under such agreements, jobs are shipped offshore to low-wage sweatshop zones in China, India, Mexico, Bangladesh, and other places that many Americans would be unable to find on a map, thanks to poor-quality public education and the refusal of American corporate media to cover global news (not even the weather; weather maps in the U.S. media end at the borders, not a coincidence).
The #1 factor in improving the economic status of poor whites, blacks and Latinos in the United States has been unionized manufacturing jobs. Much of this was spurred by World War II, after which the U.S. was the world’s #1 manufacturing zone. For one example, take a look at the boom in black wealth due to shipyard construction jobs in the San Francisco Bay Area of California:
http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=A_Day's_Work:_Hunters_Point_Shipyard_Workers,_1940-1945
Yes, racism persisted on job sites, but this was a big step up from previous ears. However, in the 1980s, corporations discovered that they could vastly boost profits by cutting labor costs via outsourcing factories to Third World sweatshops. This was amplified in the 1990s by NAFTA and deals with China, which eliminated tariffs and capital flow restrictions. Corporate CEOs salaries and dividend payments boomed, while mass layoffs and factory closures took place across the United States, with minorities being the first to go.
This was really the first major wealth extraction attack on the American middle class by the neoliberal corporate elites; the second major attack was financial, in the form of the mortgage securities games played in the 2000s, culminating in the 2008 economic meltdown, which saw the steepest decline in minority home ownership in U.S. history – all overseen by the first black president in cooperation with Congress and Wall Street.
All of which makes it a little odd to see wealthy black celebrities, whose financial portfolios benefit from these policies, supporting Black Lives Matter – but then, such people never talk about “elite supremacy”, do they, just “white supremacy.” Divide-and-conquer much?
The bottom line is that without a domestic manufacturing sector, the U.S. now has lots of “surplus population” – poor whites, blacks and Latinos, mainly. One way to convert them into a profit source is to stick them in private prisons at a cost of $50,000 a year each; hence the War on Drugs and aggressive policing in poor communities.
Thus, without cooperating with poor whites and Latinos over political action on such economic and social justice issues, the Black Lives Movement is doomed to failure on most of its demands. To succeed, they must move beyond racial identity politics.
I thought the elephant in the room was the drug war, but no, you’re right, we don’t have enough leftist economic illiteracy.
Yawn, you can’t even explain why deregulation of electricity markets didn’t lower prices (as your free-market economists claimed), or why NAFTA didn’t increase jobs in the US (as your econometric modelers claimed), etc. etc.
The literate economist who has swallowed a mass of nonsense and then regurgitates it everywhere they go, pleased at their own ‘education’, that’s what is really pathetic. Any rational person would agree that “free market economic theory” is just a cheap excuse for wealth consolidation in the hands of a few oligarchs.
Funny how those same oligarchs fund so many economics departments in business schools, isn’t it? A bunch of Lysenko-minded propaganda monkeys, that’s all they are.
Look up the difference between capitalism and crony capitalism. You seem to have them confused.
It doesn’t seem like you’re aware that they covered that issue:
An end to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and a renegotiation of all trade agreements to prioritize the interests of workers
https://policy.m4bl.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Transform-Free-Trade-Policy-Brief.pdf
Hi Alice,
I suggest that you read the words of its founders and listen to the chants of its members as you are denying the obvious in service to your own ideological bias. BlackLivesMatter is expressly:
1. anti-white
2. anti-heterosexual
3. misanthropic (anti-male)
4. anti-moderate black
5. anti-capitalist
6. anti-Law enforcement
The are black separatist reactionaries whose Marxist rhetoric and tactics are merely a rehash of that use by the Black Panthers. They are NOT a grassroots organization that just exploded on the scene in 2014. They are a Soros funded vehicle of change. Their rhetoric reveals an utter disrespect for reason and truth. It is only in the recent light of their broadly ill-received activism that they feel compelled to release a “comprehensive policy platform” with the hope that nobody will actually see them for who they truly are.
I think you need to consider the overall agenda of corporate media interests when analyzing how, for example, “Black Lives Matter” is an acceptable concept, while “Poor Lives Matter” is not; the NAACP is embraced, but a National Association for the Advancement of Poor People (NAAPP) is considered antithetical to the spirit of free-market capitalism, which is all about using political power to concentrate wealth in a few hands.
Their concern is how do you keep all these poor white, black and brown people, the fastest-growing segment of U.S. society, from upending the social order by demanding economic justice, good wages, free education, etc?
The obvious strategy is called divide-and-conquer. It’s been widely used in places like Iraq, and has been a core element of European aristocratic rule, and colonial agendas, for centuries. For example:
http://www.ecowatch.com/syria-another-pipeline-war-1882180532.html
Thus, in the elite corporate world, racial conflict between poor whites, blacks and Latinos is deliberately encouraged, since if the general population is at war with itself, it will never be able to coordinate together to oppose the agenda of the masters of the prison complex. As part of this strategy, the corporate media seeks out and amplifies the most ignorant, violent and racist voices they can find, regardless of the race of the speaker.
This is not an accident; this is very deliberate propaganda-based thinking, aimed at undermining democracy and maintaining elite control over the population.
All you need to understand why working, educated Americans have nothing but contempt for BLM is your second paragraph. You want education, a Jon, or whatever, go get it, like everybody else. I don’t owe you shit.
*job not jon
Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, Alan Greenspan – these are your idols, the ones you worship, right?
“working, educated Americans have nothing but contempt for BLM”
Oh, yeah, sure thing boss.
Please provide the results from the poll of working, educated Americans that supports your idiotic and unsupported false assertion.
I question the value of the education of anybody making such an obviously false blanket statement.
But, go ahead.
All the working, educated Americans in the BLM movement and all their working, educated supporters would love to see your proof.
We’re waiting.
Another astute comment; thank you
You mean MISANDRY not misanthropy.
Yes, misandry applies as well. All racists are misanthropes in my book; you cannot hate someone else simply for the degree of melanin in their skin and not be self-contemptuous at the same time.
Ahhh… I now see what you were referring to… Yes, misandry was the proper word;thanks for the correction.
Nobody believes your lies, because you can’t, and don’t even try to substantiate your false claims.
Your motivations for making these false claims are the troubling matter.
Reason and truth are clearly not among them.
Substantiate your claims before you expect any further debate on your nonsense.
Reason and truth demand nothing less.
Hi Mona! The truth is plain to see for those who care to see it. I have repeatably supplied substantiation from for my opinions concerning BlackLivesMatters and its founders in Intercept threads. Furthermore, the internet is replete with accurate critical opinions of BlackLivesMatters which include many from people of color. As far as debating the issue… one does not debate whether, or not, two plus two equals four. The facts speak for themselves.
If you’ve already supplied it, cutting and pasting shouldn’t be a problem for you.
Your unwillingness to do so and pointing to some other unnamed sources suggests you are in fact lying.
Regarding reparations, the Sioux, Shawnee, Cherokee and Northern Cheyenne come first. And all the other Native Americans.
You left out more than a couple…
Both goals can be pursued at the same time.
Coordination between Native Americans and BLM is a good idea.
Are you involved in such an effort?
And, had you read the platform, you would see that our indigenous brothers and sisters are very much thought of and placed front and center in it.