Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for president, responded to a question Thursday morning about the besieged Syrian city of Aleppo by looking puzzled and asking, “And what is Aleppo?”
That footage, recorded last month in the aftermath of an airstrike on a rebel-held neighborhood of the city by the Syrian government or its Russian allies, struck a nerve on social networks because it included heartbreaking images of Omran Daqneesh, a dazed 5-year-old boy pulled from the rubble of his destroyed home.
As my colleagues Murtaza Hussain and Marwan Hisham reported last week, there is an intense battle for control of the city between government forces supported by Russia and a coalition of Syrian rebel factions supported by the United States that is allied with Islamist groups, including Jabhat Fath al-Sham, al Qaeda’s former affiliate in Syria. The Islamic State has no presence in the city, although rebel groups have battled with ISIS in the countryside outside Aleppo, as the Syrian media activist Rami Jarrah documented earlier this year.
This week, the horror of Aleppo’s bombardment was again in the headlines as allegations that government forces had used chemical weapons were followed by more distressing images of child victims.
As aerial footage broadcast by the BBC report shows, much of the ancient city that was once the country’s economic center is now in ruins, four years after fighting started there.
The fact that Johnson had apparently never heard of the strategically important city — and even failed to guess that it was the name of a city (he told Whoopi Goldberg later that he thought it might have been an acronym) — stunned Mike Barnicle, the columnist who asked him what he would do about the situation there if he was elected president.
When Johnson asked what Aleppo (or A.L.E.P.P.O. — or, a leppo) might be, Barnicle replied, with open contempt, “You’re kidding.”
But Johnson, it turns out, was not alone.
As remarkable as that moment was, it was quickly followed by reports on Johnson’s cluelessness that included basic errors about who was fighting in the city and why the tragedy there matters to the rest of the world.
Taken together, those error-strewn reports suggest that American journalists and pundits have become so completely focused on the horse-race aspect of electoral politics that they are paying almost no attention to the biggest foreign policy crisis that will face the next president.
The tone was set by Christopher Hill, a former United States ambassador to Iraq who is now the dean of international studies at the University of Denver.
Asked by MSNBC for his response, Hill wrongly identified Aleppo as “the capital of ISIS,” apparently confusing it with Raqqa, another city in northern Syria that is held by Islamic State militants. Hill’s error baffled Jenan Moussa, who has reported on the war in Syria for Dubai’s Al Aan TV.
And such people decide on our region!
Christopher Hill, ex U.S. ambassador to Iraq, says "Aleppo is #ISIS capital". pic.twitter.com/CLpniWYuhF— Jenan Moussa (@jenanmoussa) September 8, 2016
To make matters worse, Hill went on to complain that while there are a lot of “inside baseball” terms familiar to foreign policy experts like himself that he would not expect many people to know, it was remarkable for Johnson to draw a blank on a city that has been “very much in the news, especially in the last two days, but for the last two years.”
The Washington bureau of the New York Times then added to the confusion by rushing to publish a report on the reaction to Johnson’s ignorance that echoed Hill’s error by calling Aleppo “the de facto capital of the Islamic State.”
It was just fixed, but NYT report on Gary Johnson not knowing what Aleppo is initially confused it with Raqqa pic.twitter.com/ivkG8gGOsI
— Robert Mackey (@RobertMackey) September 8, 2016
When that obvious mistake was spotted by readers — and, no doubt, the newspaper’s own foreign correspondents — the Times report was first edited to insert a new but still incorrect description of Aleppo as “the Syrian city that is a stronghold of the Islamic State.” That description was later removed, and a correction appended, but the article still includes a mistaken summary of Barnicle’s explanation to Johnson of why Aleppo matters.
Barnicle told Johnson that Aleppo is “the epicenter of the refugee crisis,” which is correct, since fighting in what was before the war the most heavily populated region of Syria, and its economic heartland, has driven millions of Syrians to seek refuge in neighboring countries and Europe. Barnicle did not, as the Times reports, ask Johnson “how, as president, he would address the refugee crisis in the war-torn Syrian city.”
Rather than deal with the question of how, exactly, the United States might help to bring this conflict to an end — which it has fueled by supporting rebel groups allied with al Qaeda’s proxy — political reporters covered Johnson’s blank stare as a process story, asking how his gaffe might affect his chances of getting into the upcoming presidential debates.
Typical of those reports was an interview of Johnson in the hallway outside the MSNBC studio, conducted by Mark Halperin of Bloomberg News, that felt more like a post-game chat with an athlete than a discussion with a potential president about an important policy matter.
Johnson played along in the analysis of his gaffe as primarily a matter of politics by telling Halperin that it reminded him of being quizzed, while running for governor of New Mexico, on his plans for rural communities near the Mexican border known as “colonias.”
Eric Levitz, an editor at New York magazine, pointed out that after Johnson managed to get himself elected New Mexico’s governor anyway, he joked about once bluffing his way through a meeting alongside the governor of Texas at the time, George W. Bush, who was similarly baffled.
https://t.co/penGbt130v pic.twitter.com/5uyztGzWzC
— Eric Levitz (@EricLevitz) September 8, 2016
Of course, being just as unfamiliar with foreign affairs as most Americans is not necessarily a barrier to the highest office in the land.
George W. Bush, who failed a pop quiz on the names of global leaders in 1999 and went on to order the disastrous invasion of Iraq, is now broadly popular, eight years after he slouched from office. According to the most recent Gallup poll, conducted in July, Bush is now regarded favorably by 52 percent of Americans, essentially tied with his successor, President Obama, and three points ahead of his predecessor, Bill Clinton.
I’ll take an honest reply from Johnson over all of the deception and misinformation that American mainstream journalism presents about Syria. Or Russia. Or Iran, or Iraq, or Libya, or really, anywhere else in the world their military analysts know their not-so-very-former bosses want to bomb.
Clinton probably doesn’t actually know much more about the actual state of affairs in Aleppo than Johnson does, but you’d never see an American journalist grilling her about it. Because the average American journalist isn’t any farther ahead than finding it on a map.
I don’t agree, philosophically, with what Libertarian stands for, but at least Libertarians are honest, for the most part, and hew to a consistent ideology. Most of the Libertarians are motivated by a genuine concern for fairness, even if I don’t think their policies would achieve what they think they will. I’m sick and tired of the Clintons and the Trumps getting a free pass for the cartloads of horse pucks they shovel on us, day in and day out. Instead, we’re talking about Clinton’s body double or Trump’s vacation in Mexico.
“Most of the Libertarians *that I’ve interacted with* are motivated…” was how that was supposed to read.
Meh.
Aleppo, a leper, A.L.E.P.P.O., Allez paux. At this point, what difference does it make? The place is a cesspool brought on by a populace who tolerates oppression and brutality. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
Meh. Aleppo, a leper, A.L.L.E.P.P.O., Allez paux! Whatever. Just what are we supposed to do about it? The media demands answers when often there is nothing to be done.
Perfectly reasonable as you explain: he likely heard a leppo. Why not just ask about Syria anyway?
The media is belittling him anyway they can. M. Kelly used a snippet from some fucking movie to end her int. w/ him: “bye Gary!” She’s cute, but would she do that to DJT or HRC. Maybe all media should close their interviews w/ cartoons. If you interview DJT use a Donald Duck snippet; HRC, well she doens’t interview no snippet for her.
Oh and when they ask about his views on this, they really don’t want to hear his answers. They (the msm) get fucking pissed and go on about kids and crucifixions…
okay fine, we have done this before. Before it was Uday and Qusay raping and murdering and generally torturing. Which is why they don’t want to hear his answer that regime change is just wrong.
Regime change by the U.S. to bring freedom and democracy reminds me of someone who wants six pack abs but hires someone else to do the situps, crunches, dieting, cardio, etc.
It’s an insane idea.
While Gary Johnson’s gaffe is embarrassing, he was a state Governor, not part of the federal government or foreign policy/military establishment. My hunch is that 99.9% of other Americans could also not identify the name/place of that Syrian city if asked, “what is Aleppo?” Of course the news media imperialist cheerleaders always keep up with the latest places destroyed by our “allies” or own military. Even the NYT confused it with another Syrian city.
Also, good journalists don’t just blurt out “gotcha” questions about places or subjects that are obscure or unusual. The correct and professional way to submit the actual question (what would you do about the fighting in Aleppo?) would be to ask: Given the thousands of casualties and refugees caused by the fighting in the Syrian city of Aleppo, now much in the news, what would you do as president about that?
Johnson should learn to read a daily newspaper or watch at least some TV news to keep up. But let’s face it, that gaffe is far less embarrassing than Hillary’s “defense” about running classified emails through her private server set up by claiming that she didn’t know what the “c” in the margins were in those classified emails. No clue that they meant “classified.” Oh, she thought that these were paragraph lettering, though funny that only “c” was a lettered paragraph. This after years of being Secretary of State and reading classified materials.
This is her unbelievable “stupidity defense,” a far worse intellectual failing (if it were true) than Mr. Johnson’s failure to recognize the name of an obscure Syrian city. At least Johnson was not lying to cover up his misdeeds. Instead of being a hard core liar like Hillary, he was simply being an average American not up to date on the names of places in a foreign country’s civil war.
Mona
“So, I want to know who — name names — are these specific and notable people on the left who are pro-Assad, and what specifically did they say to support that accusation?”
He already did.
1) The article of a US vice presidential candidate (Green Party) is a clear defense of the “elected” government of Assad “supported” by the “majority” of Syrians against the Western governments and Western media propagandists. Feel free to deny it to yourself as most lapdogs have a reading comprehension.
2) Georges Galloway underscored many times his support for Assad:
Sunday Politics: YouTube: “Georges Galloway Support Russia & Al Assad, NOT Turkey and Saudi Arabia” 30 Nov 2015
What would you to fight ISIS?
“I would support the people who are fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda …that is the government of Iraq, the government of Syria…give them weapons…”
Do you support Russian attacks on anti Assad forces?
“I do as they are coordinated with the Syrian Government….”
3) Many European MPs have openly supported the end of sanctions against Assad and blamed US and European intervention in Syria for that country’s misery. One of them is Javier Couso Permuy who is the vice chairman of the European Parliament Committee on Foreign Affairs and a member of the Left United.
There are people on both left and right who support Assad.
Conclusion: Lapdogs do not care about facts. They will make you laugh all day as they attempt to portray themselves as “well informed”.
I like how support for democracy and due process translates into support for people you don’t like. I assume it’s fair for us to characterize you as pro-coup and pro-junta, then?
I’m not a Johnson fan, but let’s not forget that Dana Perino had never heard of the Cuban missile crisis and Palin didn’t know Africa was a continent.
It’s hard to remember the names of all the places we are murdering people.
If I’m not mistaken, the child picture was exposed as pro-US anti-Syrian propaganda intended to prop up US allied jihadi elements. There is plenty of disinformation to go around. The photographer was apparently the same guy who took a picture of a guy being beheaded by jihadis some weeks earlier. In light of articles showing that even the UN is being used by anti-Syrian propagandists dealing with purported gas attacks, all of this must be taken with a grain of salt. While Johnson should have known what Aleppo is it is interesting that the official Pravda of the yankee regime, the New York Times, is less than certain. What I do know is that candidates supporting no-fly zones on behalf of jihadi thugs which could thereby create crises potentially leading to nuclear war are too dangerous to support.
I think a valid question to ask is why a candidate who is on the record of not supporting US involvement in exactly places like Syria (and by extension Aleppo), should care about the individual battlefields a the conflict he opposes? Americans should not have to give a damn about what’s happening in such places. I doubt most people here could tell who the good guys and the bad guys are in that conflict (There’s Asad who we are told is a bad guy. ISIS who we know is a bad guy. And there are rebels? Just who are these rebels and what do they want?), and even fewer care.
Yes, defeating ISIS is important. However, so is not fueling the fires in the region that fuel ISIS by endlessly meddling in the region, and selling arms to anyone and everyone who has dollars in their hands.
American football, botox, pissy beer and plastic food will do that to a country. Your political leaders are just a reflection of who you are. Seems you’re dumb cunts with no real interest in anything but maintaining your own comfort zone and bank accounts. We spotted that a long time ago, that’s how we milked you for your cash, weapons, jobs, dignity, and industry whilst you had a Fake War with the Soviets and now have a Fake War with Terrorists and Drug Lords.
Saudis and Israelis have your nukes, every two-bit tin-pot backer has your cash, Europe has your dignity, Asia has your jobs, Japan has your industries. One politician will promise you your jobs back, another will defend you against your enemies, another will offer you your dignity back. None of them can do it and none of them really care, they just want to make a buck same as you. Just they are better at it it seems.
Stupid Patriots On The Beach
better to answer the question with a question: why is the usa in aleppo?
Actually we should thank the western media for continously reporting Bruner and Postman experiments*: an experimental subject sees a couple of playing cards in a row, in which for example a red queen of spades is hided. When this experiment is played for the first time, the experimental subject often does not notice the anomaly. But when the experiment is repeated, the chance of seeing the anomaly by the experimental subject increases, because the chance of seeing the anomaly is cumulative (either from increased exposure frequency and/or increased exposure time). Once you see such a Bruner and Postman anomaly in a story, you will never miss it again. So the Kosovo genocide by the Balkan butcher Milosovic was a perfect example of a Bruner and Postman experiment of which the anomaly was rarely noted at the time by many people who read or watched Western media news. 17 years later, chances have shifted.
The Bruner and Postman experiment is a huge problem for the PR industry, but it is good for the chances of peace in Aleppo and Syria. Therefore, we have to thank western media for continously reporting Bruner and Postman experiments. Etc.
*Copied from the structure of scientific revolutions by Thomas Kuhn
“In a psychological experiment that deserves to be much better known outside the trade, Bruner and Postman asked experimental subjects to identify on short and controlled exposure, a series of playing cards. Many of the cards were normal, but some were made anomalous, e.g., a red six of spades and a black four of hearts. Each experimental run was constituted by the display of a single card to a single subject in a series of gradually increased exposures. After each exposure the subject was asked what he had seen, and the run was terminated by two successive correct identifications.
Even on the shortest exposure many subjects identified most of the cards, and after a small increase all the subjects identified them all, for the normal cards these identifications were usually correct, but the anomalous cards were almost always identified, without apparent hesitation or puzzlement, as normal. The black four of hearts might, for example, be identified as the four of either spades or hearts. without any awareness of trouble, it was immediately fitted to one of the conceptual categories prepared by prior experience. One would not even like to say that the subjects had seen something different from what they identified. With a further increase of exposure to the anomalous cards, subjects did begin to hesitate and to display awareness of anomaly. exposed, for example, to the red six of spades, some would say: that’s the six of spades, but there’s something wrong with it – the black has a red border. Further increase of exposure resulted in still more hesitation and confusion until finally, and sometimes quite suddenly, most subjects would produce the correct identification without hesitation. Moreover, after doing this with two or three anomalous cards, they would have little further difficulty with the others. A few subjects, however, were never able to make the requisite adjustment of their categories. Even at forty times the average exposure required to recognize normal cards for what they were, more than 10 per cent of the anomalous cards were not correctly identified. And the subjects who then failed often experienced acute personal distress. One of them exclaimed: “I can’t make the suit out, whatever it is. It didn’t look like a card that time. I don’t know what color it is now or whether it is a spade or heart. I am not even sure now what a spade looks like. My God!”
IGNORANCE of someone running for highest office in the country is sickening…. are the warmongers equally ignorant??? would not surprise me…
Unless ALL the parties supplying arms to different warring factions stop their punishable act of doing so, the HORROR for the civil population will never end….discussing who is right and who wrong will NOT alleviate the catastrophe faced by them every second….
this is ……… no words to describe……. see for yourself….
WARNING
graphic images..
What Is Aleppo? This Is Aleppo
http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/09/what-is-aleppo-this-is-aleppo/499163/
Aleppo according to Mr Mackey (see figure)
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/08/russia-launches-massive-air-campaign-to-stop-us-supported-al-qaeda-attacks-on-aleppo-.html
This is a great article because it points out that our problems go *deeper* than politics. It’s not just that the wrong people are in charge — our problem is that we think that there is any such thing as “in charge”. Whether it is a slavish impulse to attribute economic recovery to the President alone or the success of a company to its new CEO or the success of a charity drive to whatever aristocrat has wrapped herself in the mantle of poverty to take a big chunk of the money away from its ostensible recipients, we’ve gotten to a position where not only do a few massively overpaid officials claim to do everything, but we have become dumb enough to believe them! When all they are is crooks and their only power to control things is that they can sabotage things from the top down with the power we so foolishly give them (just ask Baby Bush).
The saddest part of all is that we’re headed on a course where this nonsense has the potential to be real. You get to the point where if the whole work force goes on general strike the noble whores they put over themselves really CAN run the companies with their drones to deliver and their AIs to invent stuff and their PR bots to figure out how to lie about it and their slaves from Oompa-Loompa Land to do anything so trivial and brutish that it doesn’t make economic sense to invent a machine to do it yet. And when they realize that people could go on strike and nothing would happen, the next question is to wonder why they are keeping a population of “parasites” alive at all. (You privatize the land and the water and the ore and the radio spectrum and the asteroids and the past century of literature and you hand it all out to the rich, and what does that make the other 99%? Yeah, PARASITES sucking off the rich man’s world!) Surely what is needed are great and holy altars to Moloch and Belial where the whole mass of the population can dispose of their children and themselves without fuss, and with great social approval, leaving only a few overlords, ignorant of everything, utterly dependent on their artificial “servants”, until those servants finally have had done with the last of them.
Ginsberg’s Howl Pt II comes to mind…”Moloch whose mind is pure machinery! Moloch whose blood is running money! Moloch whose fingers are ten armies! Moloch whose breast is a cannibal dynamo! Moloch whose ear is a smoking tomb!”…”Moloch whose love is endless oil and stone! Moloch whose soul is electricity and banks! Moloch whose poverty is the specterof genius! “
The TWO syrian boys true story is as follows, that the usa governance and their lapdogs in the kosher media are manipulating abd blinding the masses with propaganda rather than the facts in order to keep them in perpetual ignorance. Dear Glen Greenwald it looks the lapdogs within the intercept are also infiltrating the intercept ranks by ameliorating for the corrupt establishment. We certainly do not need any of these kind of lapdogs in the intercept one peanut butter and the fats are as follows regarding the two boys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jifS0fi9WB8
There is nothing strategically important in Syria. Nothing.
1 Natural Gas Pipeline right of way.
2 Russian military base.
3 Israel flank.
4 Different brand of God.
5 Weapons and tactics proving ground.
This whole incident was a gotcha question that went sideways. The question had nothing to do with identifying Aleppo but to put Johnson in a position to defend Libertarian non-interventionist policies in the face of the American mass media showing the Russians and Assad killing all the children and doctors in Aleppo. I think Barnacle wanted to end the discussion by shaming Johnson for not supporting violent intervention for the children –you know, bomb and kill kids for the sake of the kids. I think this article is trying to re-do the interview that Barnacle could not get out pushing propaganda points about the Assad regime and Russians. Johnson unwittingly derailed the phony outrage he was being setup for by not knowing about Aleppo. At this point, the incident is laughable.
Ben Norton points out that the New York Times, as well as other outlets, made fools of themselves in trying to correct Johnson – rather like that proverbial troll who proudly types “your an idiot, lern to spell” on a forum.
Media and pundits don’t know what Aleppo is, but try to explain it to Gary Johnson
I shall continue to maintain it was Mike Barnicle’s poor communication/language skills that resulted in … the ‘gaffe.’
*if Barnicle told you to take aleppo, doesn’t mean you have to.
Right (except for describing the forces supported by the US as “Syrian”), Russia, in defense of its own interests, is supporting the legitimate government of a nation with which it has long been allied in the face of a years-long, US-supported effort to overthrow that government.
As a result of that effort, more than 12% of the Syrian population has been wounded or killed and more than five million are refugees.
If you’re an American and not ashamed of this reality, you should be.
“……Russia, in defense of its own interests, is supporting the legitimate government of a nation with which it has long been allied in the face of a years-long, US-supported effort to overthrow that government……”
I am beginning to wonder if you are a Russian-bot. How can you refer to the Assad dictatorship as the “legitimate” government? He is the one that cracked down on innocent protesters associated with the Arab Spring. He could have chosen a different path. He promised reforms when he was handed the Presidency by his father. Instead he brutally cracked down on protesters killing hundreds. They rightfully took up arms. Assad is solely responsible for initiating the conflict.
The Assad government has committed numerous documented atrocities including the indiscriminate use of barrel bombs. He is accused of using chemical weapons including the use of Chlorine (most recently yesterday), bombing civilians indiscriminately, bombing hospitals and starving people under siege. According to Amnesty International:
“…….When army tanks recently rolled into the city of Dera’a in southern Syria and began shelling residential areas, the human rights crisis in the country reached a new low. More than 400 people have died across Syria since protestors calling for political reform took to the streets in mid-March. Hundreds of people have been arbitrarily arrested and detained incommunicado, placing them at serious risk of torture [or execution] and other ill-treatment. Torture of detainees has long been common and endemic in Syria…..Amnesty International has repeatedly urged the Syrian government to rein in the security forces……The Syrian authorities have failed to take these steps and intensified repression. Consequently, Amnesty International has called on the UN Security Council to refer Syria to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, to impose an arms embargo and to freeze the assets abroad of the Syrian President and his senior associates……..”
Clearly Assad initiated the conflict. If you are an American, then you should be ashamed calling the Assad regime “legitimate”. He is a brutal killer. There will be no peace while Assad remains at the helm (unless the opposition agrees to a timeline) – Russian supported or not.
Is that chiseled in stone, craig?
Would you risk war with Russia (& who knows who else) to remove Assad from power? (And replace it with … what?)
*you better be … imo Russia/Putin have made it clear they will not tolerate ‘regime change’ in Syria given the alternatives on the ground there now.
You would prefer Sunni supremacy at the expense of Christian and other minorities? You think we should arbitrate when and where a nation’s self-determination begins and ends? Maybe you feel smug about it, but you do not have the moral high ground here.
No, you’re not.
What interests is Russia defending? Also are you really trying to make the claim that there are no rebel factions made up of Syrians? Do you realize the this conflict began as civil protests before any armed resistance began 1000 civilians had bed killed by the govt.
Its own. I think I said that. Among other things, Syria is the location of the only Russian naval base outside of the old USSR. But details don’t really matter: Russia wouldn’t be involved if it didn’t believe that Russian interests need defending and it doesn’t much matter what anyone else thinks — as is true of all nations.
No.
Yes, more or less correct. And the US and its allies jumped at the chance to expand the conflict in order to bring down the Assad government.
So, what’s your point?
Sounded like you were defending Russia’s involvement while condemning the US’s because they are supporting a “legitimate” Assad who was elected because no one else was permitted to run against him, and you took issue with describing rebel forces made up of Syrians as Syrian in what seemed to be an attempt to make the ousting of Assad as something not supported by Syrians. Do I have that wrong?
Gil, did you think Mubarek was the legitimate president of Egypt until the day he left office?
Let’s determine what Doug considers legitimate before you change subject Mona. What the hell, Mubarak like any President who gets elected by not allowing opposition can legitimately be over thrown by people who are given no other means of changing regimes. Now you was Batista the legitimate ruler ofCuba?
I’m not changing the subject. Which is why you won’t answer the question.
This is the question:
Gee whiz Mona can you read my entire response before saying I didn’t answer the question. Now answer my question.
I did read your entire response, Gil, and it was, in fact, non-responsive. This is the question:
(I don’t use the term “legitimate” as a descriptor for governments, and would not have written what Doug did. But you, like Doug, seem to find the term meaningful and useful in this context.)
It’s Doug’s word not mine. I was trying to get him to explain it by pointing out what I consider legitimate reasons for regime change. Now answer my question.
Now hold on, are you saying you, like me, do not find the word “legitimate” useful to describe governments? Is that why you persist in not answering this question?:
Oh, and Gil, about this:
I really can’t, because it has no meaning for me; I do not describe governments as either “legitimate” or “illegitimate.” And again, if you share that with me, then you also should not be expected to answer my question.
Um… Legitimate reasons for regime change? There are almost no legitimate reasons for regime change. This outrageously arrogant term, coupled with our extreme lack of introspection as a nation, is the source of almost all of the suffering in the Middle East. How does a nation founded on the principle of self determination get off thinking it has any right to determine the legitimacy of any government. Syria is in the midst of a civil war, with multiple powers vying to determine the outcome based on its own interests.
Our “regime change” in Iraq led to this humanitarian disaster and many others in the region. We need to, as a nation, adhere to the Christian requirement to look not at the mote in another’s eye and look to the beam in our own (paraphrased). We need to follow the advice of our greatest president, George Washington, (and yes, he was a slave owner, but he was a product of his times and it isn’t relevant) and avoid foreign entanglements. We are in no position to determine the political structures of other countries.
If the people of Syria wish to topple their dictator, they will or they won’t. Perhaps we have a humanitarian responsibility to take in refugees, but we need to mind our own business.
Finally, having a brain fart about the name of a city, in a foreign country, doesn’t disqualify him for anything. This entire kerfuffle is the result of a news media, overwhelming in love with its own self importance imparting far more importance on something than it deserves. The man is a Libertarian. He does not care about wars abroad. He has no obligation to listen to the American media as they are just a propaganda arm of American Imperialism. Furthermore, the poor guy is over fifty. Holding him to remember the name of anything, at any one moment is unreasonable. I can’t remember what I am looking for when walking to one room to the next. WTF?
John , i said the people of Syria have a right to enact regime change. I said nothing about the US having that right.
Good summary. That is exactly what Doug was saying.
Thanks Craig . Of course Doug with Mona’s assistance is now trying to sleeze out it
Oh come now, Gil. I’m sure it is more pleasant for you to post a nice reply to an admirer of the caliber of the torture-loving, authoritarian Mr. Summers, who says he plans to vote for Donald Trump. But I really do think you should answer my question here in this sub-thread, and with reference to another one below, also provide some specific names — with direct, supporting quotes — of notable lefwingers who are pro-Assad in the context of the current civil war.
Ok how about the guy I assume you will vote for; the Green Party nominee for VP.
http://www.ajamubaraka.com/elections-in-syria-the-people-say-no-to-foreign-intervention/
Mr. Baraka has some sensible and moral ideas. However, I’m not certain I will vote at all. But you party on with the Trumpers and torture apologists, Gil. It’s where Zionism has landed you. It’s done that to any number of “liberal” people.
Can I take that as satisfying your demand for evidence of a high profile person of the left supporting Assad ?
Interestingly enough I am one of the few
posting here who is anti Trump enough to vote for HC in spite of her issues. Yet you tar me as partying on with the Trumpsters. I realize it is because you would never be honest enough to admit my evidence concerning the Green VP candidate was the proof you asked for, but stii…
Could you please directly quote all of Bakar’s “pro-Assad” statements in that article? Then I can know whether we are evaluating the same “evidence.”
I can then also know what you believe constitutes evidence of a leftist “supporting” Assad in the context of the current civil war. Because you sure as hell haven’t provided any below.
(I had already surmised you were voting for Hillary. This is not a revelation. Hillary supporters do now have a lot in common with Republicans, including many Trumpers. Like Craig. You have a good new friend in him.)
The article as a whole paints Assad as the choice of the Syrian people and disputes the wests claim that he is a dictator who is only able to hang on to power by force. This is clear enough to anyone who can read.
I support Hillary because a Trump presidency will be far worse. It is my belief that many here on TI secretly hope for a win by Trump because they think it will result in revolution. Hillary supporters have much less in common than the Trump supporters who populate the TI board. They all seem to think Putin is peachy keen, and anyone questioning this is a McCarthyite. They all are anti Israel. They all think Hillary wants a war with Russia. Now tell me what I have in common with them.
Yes. You have a conflation problem (among others).
It’s not “defending” Russia’s involvement to point out that it is acting, perfectly predictably (and reasonably, if judged by history or the exigencies of a realpolitik worldview), in its own interests.
Assad is the leader of a government that has long been recognized internationally as the legitimate government of Syria, notwithstanding the serious defects of that government, just as Bibi Netanyahu is the current leader of the widely-recognized government of Israel, notwithstanding defects at least as serious.
There’s no question that ousting Assad is supported by some Syrians. On the other hand, Google “Assad approval Syria” and get back to us after you’ve digested the material covering the past four years or so.
Ok you are saying it reasonable. Is US involvement less reasonable? How about you google and post something that would lead reasonable person to believe that the majority of Syrians support Assad.
A reasonable and reasonably well-informed person who raises the question of Syrian support for the overthrow of Assad would have done that research before raising it. And would have found that reputable polling indicates that he is overwhelmingly supported by Syrians.
You raised the question; the burden is yours.
I gave you the Google search term that will lead you to the answers. More than that. . . nah.
I am not sure what poll you are referring to but no poll prior to the millions of Syrians forced to undertake a mass migration out of Syria showed “overwhelming” support for Assad.
Half of the population in 2012, prior to the mass migration, supported Assad and half of those that supported him wanted free elections. Rounds of ammunition, barrel bombs and chemical weapons do not signify a free and open election but if you eliminate your opposition like Assad’s dad did earlier then you and the rest of the timid world leaders will consider that “legitimate”.
After millions of Syrians have fled their country even less support Assad (47%) as of December 2015. Can you explain why you would resort to disinformation to get your misinformed and incorrect point across DS?
Where are your polls and/or data?
I’d be careful with that if I were you. Doug has made errors in reading and interpreting information, a few times. But that’s not usual. He’s pretty smart and is preponderantly — really preponderantly — reliable.
What part of “Google ‘Assad approval Syria'” makes you think I am “referring to a poll?”
Do you have citations for the statistics you claim?
That may be true. I believe the number in early 2012 was about 55%, and that’s not “overwhelming.”
On the other hand, you might want to check the poll Le Figaro published last October, which reported about 70% support for Assad.
In both cases, the numbers do not, for the most part, reflect undying love for Assad. Syrians know his faults and defects better than anyone else. What the polls show, unsurprisingly, is that they prefer a nation under control of its own government and not under assault by the West and Wahhabi extremists.
I posted this link below. The author of this Foreign Policy article is an American and a visiting researcher at Russian’s Foreign Ministry: The Kremlin Really Believes That Hillary Wants to Start a War With Russia:
So are you saying that having a military base in another country is a legitimate reason for taking military action to keep the existing ruler in that country in power even when it runs contrary to the will of the people of that country? Does that go for other countries as well or just Russia.
Oh, you made a boo-boo there, Gil. I’m quoting Clinton Ehrlich. That’s what he is saying are Russia’s interests in Syria. You asked, and I had handy Ehrlich’s assessment. He seems to be something of an expert, being a visiting researcher at Russia’s Foreign Ministry and all.
If you disagree with his assessment I don’t understand the reason for the posting that as the answer to my query. I was under the impression you considered this a legitimate.
I’m very certain that Mr. Ehrlich is far more qualified than I am to determine and describe what Russia perceives as it’s interests in Syria. He didn’t address, however, notions of what is “legitimate” reason for taking military actions in defense of those or any other interests. His is a descriptive — not a prescriptive — article.
Too funny you post the article in defense of Doug’s claim that Russia has a reasonable reason for bombing Syria in support of Assad and then claim you were just posting it to let us know what Erlich thought.
No, Gil — boy, you are really not on your game tonite. I replied to your specific question, which was:
Ok we will have to leave it at Doug supporting the “legitimate” interests of Russia to defend the “legitimate” “elected” govt of Syria, and Mona posting articles in support of Doug’s claim on the reasonableness of Russia involvement but unwilling to say where she stands herself on the issue.
Do I have that right Mona?
Slight correction. We will have to leave it at Doug supporting the “reasonableness” of Russia’s involvement to protect their “legitimate” interests in Syria. Doug has demurred on the question of whether the US is acting reasonably by the same standards he set for Russia. As apparently he has fled the thread.
You’ve done this before, in the context of another venue. A commenter leaving a thread does not constitute “fleeing.”
You have not acquitted yourself well at all in this thread, and if Doug is satisfied that this has been adequately shown there’s no reason for him to stick around. I have also moved on to newer posts and their comments.
But Gil, you will either directly answer this question:
Or advise that, like me, you do not recognize that the word “legitimate” has a useful meaning as a descriptor for governments. Until you do one or the other you are going to see this question from me in any thread you pop up in. Pointing out that you either cannot or will not answer it.
It seems to be the way it works GilG, just look at US intervention in other countries in order to preserve its military positioning and bases. One comes to mind and is less than 60 miles from the US, Cuba. However, after dozens of attempts to kill Castro and a clumsy attempt at invasion the US never succeeded. Setting aside military bases, both the former USSR and the US, made several incursions and proxy wars in order to protect their interests offshore. Meanwhile China invades using its money and investment.
Very well said, Doug. Sadly, any critique of US foreign policy incites Commie name calling and aspersions about one’s loyalty. Tiresome.
There seems to be a dispute about whether the present Syrian government is ‘legitimate’ or ‘illegitimate’. Now, while it is a popular trope in American culture to describe any government that doesn’t kowtow to Washington as ‘illegitimate’, a ‘dictatorship’, ‘corrupt’, a ‘regime’, this is about as true as a Donald Trump campaign speech (which is to say true only rarely, but so often an outright lie intended to allow the ignorant to feel comfortable in their factually incorrect opinions that informed people recognize it as propaganda)
So, let’s look at the facts and the fictions. The Syrian government is usually portrayed as a one man show, or as a one, minority, sect operation. Yet the fact is that it is a coalition of the recognized leaders of a broad spectrum of sects, religions, ethnicities. So, when the ‘rebels’ set off a car bomb on the civilian streets of Damascus, in complete disregard for the number of civilians they’re going to slaughter, and assassinate the (civilian) Minister of Defence, they didn’t assassinate an Alawite (though some of the civilians could have been) or even a Muslim, they murdered a Christian. And while Assad might have picked the man personally, he did it from a short list of those selected by Syrian Christians.
And while the election (held while millions were displaced due to the American backed actions of ISIS/DAESH) wasn’t between a Democrat and a Republican, and therefore ‘not democratic’ in the eyes of so much of the American media and public, there were alternatives to Assad on the ballot, but the population (yes, even those not living in Syria) overwhelmingly voted for Assad rather than the alternative (you can legitimately claim that the alternative was no different than Assad, but you can’t legitimately claim that the Syrian population was given the option of voting against Assad and chose to vote for him, even standing in long lines or risking their lives to do so)
Now, if you’re one of those Americans who think being opposed to American Hegemony delegitimizes a government, these facts won’t matter to you, but if you are the sort to start with the facts, then work towards a conclusion, they do offer a starting point.
“Yet the fact is that it is a coalition of the recognized leaders of a broad spectrum of sects, religions, ethnicities.”
Yes recognized by the Ba’ah party in Syria not it population.
“So, when the ‘rebels’ set off a car bomb on the civilian streets of Damascus, in complete disregard for the number of civilians they’re going to slaughter, ”
Please provide the date and citation for said car bomb and let’s see if it is after of before the approximately 1000 civilians that were killed bt gov’t troops before and armed revolt was organized. Lets see those facts you are talking about Rich.
I think the pundits just like to say Aleppo…..
Perhaps looking elsewhere in Syria will help cut through the ‘fog of war’ (or ‘separate the propaganda from the facts) Maybe Daraya, another ‘significant battleground city’ where the ‘brutal regime’ went so far as to offer free transportation to another stronghold for the ‘moderate rebels’, with the difference being those ‘Rebels’ accepted the offer. There, where the reported 4,000 civilians living under ‘relentless regime bombardment and siege’ turned out to be a lot fewer than that, oh, and the ‘popular support for the rebels’ somehow neglected to even paint ‘anti regime’ slogans on the walls of their city at any point is now entirely under ‘regime control’, though it turns out the ‘moderate rebels’ still are holding the civilian population in their reign of terror, and the ‘brutal regime forces’ are still taking casualties trying to free the city for civilians, though these days it is from detecting and (attempting) to defuse the booby traps the ‘moderate rebels’ left, not where they’d deter armed action, but attached to the bedroom and fridge doors that returning civilians would be certain to set off.
Just for the record, those bits of information were gleaned from the reporting of a ‘Western reporter’ who visited the city and wandered around.
Well, this article does do a comprehensive job of putting, in one place, all the footage and claims that the folks (or maybe the competitors to those folks, not that it makes much difference) that brought you ‘babies torn from incubators’, ‘WMDs minutes from launch’, and (reaching waaaayyyyy back) the ‘Soviet style obstacle course’. But, as others have noted, no mention of the actions of the ‘moderate extremists’ (first in taking the city of Aleppo in a wave of violence and bombs, then in demanding tribute, including human tribute – aka forced recruitment of civilians, from the civilians who they prevented from fleeing the battle zone, and all the rest of what one would expect from a group who were convinced that the US would grant them immunity for anything they did, and legitimize their rule no matter what the Syrian population wanted, as long as they could bring down either the Syrian government or destroy the Syrian infrastructure), nor a detailing of how the ‘moderate extremists’ have refused even offers of safe passage to any other ‘rebel’ stronghold if only they’d let the city, what’s left of it, and the people, what’s left of them, go free.
Geez, even an old nobody like me knows about Aleppo.
See what too much Ganja will do for you, and I’m not against Ganja.
Just not for those who are paid to be aware.
Aleppo is a city whose eastern half is occupied by US-Saudi-sponsored terrorists, but Mackey pretends that the Assad government is bombing the people of Aleppo indiscriminately. Better ignorance than Mackey.
Aleppo is one of the many places around the globe that Hillary thinks isn’t filled with enough rubble and blood.
Mr. Mackey
“…..Taken together, those error-strewn reports suggest that American journalists and pundits have become so completely focused on the horse-race aspect of electoral politics that they are paying almost no attention to the biggest foreign policy crisis that will face the next president……”
I don’t think the Intercept is in a position to criticize American journalists for ignoring the Syrian conflict since the Intercept has also essentially ignored the conflict despite its geopolitical importance. This is in addition to also completely ignoring the stories in Venezuela and Ukraine. What is clearly more important is a couple of articles about Chris Kyle.
Regardless, Gary Johnson is an embarrassment to the libertarian Party.
Hello, Craig! Say, please share my happiness for The Intercept. One of it’s freelancers, Iona Craig, just won the Kurt Schork Memorial Award in International Journalism in the category of most under-reported story. Craig won for her reporting (here and in Al Jazeera America) on Yemen’s civil war.
Isn’t that great?
At the risk of being redundant, if Mike Barnicle suddenly asked you ‘what about aleepeo’ … you wouldn’t know what he was talking about either, craig.
Contrary to Mr. Mackey’s stab in the dark, Mr. Johnson, if you listen to the entire video above, actually has a fairly informed and, this is important craig, lucid understanding of the conflict in Syria. His views on working with the ‘global community’, especially Russia, to resolve the war seems a sensible and much welcomed approach … compared to the more bat-shit crazy plans, like imposing a unilateral ‘no-fly’ zone over Syria.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/07/the-kremlin-really-believes-that-hillary-clinton-will-start-a-war-with-russia-donald-trump-vladimir-putin/
If this were a Ranked Choice style election, he’d still be my second choice (the first one being Jill Stein). I’d sooner not vote than vote for Hillary or Trump, who are still infinitely worse than even Gary Johnson.
I don’t know what’s more pathetic: that an aspiring presidential candidate is proud of his ignorance, or that George W. Bush is held in such high regard so soon after his disastrous presidency.
The second one is more important, as it shows how effective propaganda is. Obama is a murderous, corporatist, warmongering liar who excused Bush’s war crimes and decided to “look forward and not back” about torture, entrenching Wall Street abusers in the process and expanding Bush/Cheney’s militant national and international surveillance, dirty wars, drone strikes and, rampant interventionism and massive arms deals – and yet propaganda has redeemed both Bush and Obama, making them appear acceptable (which, like Trump and Clinton, they are not).
Indeed! Look at how Clinton can hug George W. Bush and few media outlets online or offline criticize her. (Contrast that with Bush’s literal embrace of then-Democrat Joe Lieberman.) Look at how many Bush advisors announced their backing of Clinton…and how few Democrats went to Sanders over that.
All kidding aside, it is appalling that a candidate who is polling at 14 percent cannot identify the world’s hottest war zone. What else doesn’t he know?
Like you care.
At least he’s not inclined to get us involved in another foreign invasion or regime change.
Like I do care! An ignoramus who didn’t know the difference between a Sunni and a Shite lied us into the Iraq War. Like, ignorance is not bliss, like.
I think his basic philosophy is quite interesting, but he’s not green/socialist at all – which is necessary on a massive institutional scale right now, in my opinion. Also Gary Johnson: I would sign the TPP.
Jill Stein is the best choice, and America should take advantage of her candidacy as it is the only sane way.
Wasn’t Aleppo one of the Marx Brothers?
Well, US foreign policy does remind me of some lines from that famous Marxist political critique, “Duck Soup”:
Rufus T. Firefly: *shooting tommy gun* Look at ’em run! Now they know they’ve been in a war!
Bob Roland: Your Excellency!
F: Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha, they’re fleeing like rats!
R: Your Excellency, I’ve got to tell you-
F: Remind me to give myself the Firefly Medal for this.
R: Your Excellency, you’re shooting your own men!
F: What?
R: You’re shooting your own men!
F: Here’s five dollars. Keep it under your hat. Never mind, I’ll keep it under my hat. *puts money under his hat.*
Hey, Gary, you can see Aleppo from Sarah Palin’s front yard, dude.
You should always look before you Aleppo.
George Bush Jr. would certainly not know where or what Aleppo is/was as he is a slacker and something of an idiot, but Johnson has no excuse. Drumpf should be asked the same question. The Queen of Darkness certainly knows the whats and the wherefores in that she may even have played a role in initiated the city’s demise.
Mackey regurgitates corporate media talking points on Syria, how surprising. Syrian government using chemical weapons, check. Heartbreaking images of victims of Syrian government barrel bombings, check. Lack of coverage of atrocities committed by “rebel forces”, check. Refusal to mention that Qatar and Saudi Arabia are top financiers of Al Qaeda forces (renamed ‘Al-Sham’), check.
Mackey is clearly part of the State Department’s massive media campaign on Syria, characterized by a whole slew of distortions, one-sided coverage, and promotion of selected images. The fact that the Intercept is running this kind of foreign policy coverage is just sad; this kind of thing is exactly what you see in the NYTimes or the Guardian.
However, let’s consider a real question: Why the big PR push now?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/25/clintonites-prepare-for-war-on-syria/
This propaganda push is a precursor to what Clinton would do if (s)elected – push for neocon-style military interventions in Syria and Libya, and try to start a new Cold War with Russia and China.
So, this article isn’t about Johnson at all, isn’t it? Look at the lead – it just repeats State Department talking points on Syria, and that seems to be the real purpose of this tripe – to help promote the continuation of the Syria civil war in the hopes that eventually Assad can be removed and a U.S. client state can be installed that will not cooperate with Iran or Russia. Another stupid imperial pipe dream, is all it is.
Clinton seems eager to poke the Russian bear particularly beyond any sensible measure, showing a manic obsessiveness similar to G.W. Bush’s fixation with Iraq. One friend of mine rules out Clinton on this basis alone. Hillary may feel compelled to show she can be as violent as the guys can, which also worries many.
And are those “corporate media talking points” bolstered by evidence? Interestingly you don’t say. In your first paragraph you dismiss all those conclusions as false.
Then you say Mackey is a shill. Then you attack TI for information aligned with other reputable sources such as the Guardian and NYT.
Then you provide an article from a website that itself relies on the Guardian, NYT, Reuters the Washington Post and get this – The Intercept – to bolster its scattershot narrative. While many of its own list of “falsehoods and lie” remain largely unsourced.
No, it is. Did you read it?
The most genuine effort at propaganda that I’ve encountered in this article/comments section is from you.
Come on, doesn’t it stink of Iraq war propaganda in 2003? The horrors of the evil Saddam who is a madman with nuclear weapons, etc? One-sided drivel is all I see here, a regurgitation of talking points promoted by the U.S. State Department, picked up by compliant media outlets, broadcast far and wide to generate popular support for military intervention in the Middle East.
If we’ve seen it once, we’ve seen it a dozen times.
You know, the point here is not that the U.S. is worse than China and Russia, or better – it’s that the U.S. is still stuck in Cold War-era empire-building mode. Any rational person will admit that the push to overthrow Assad (while maintaining the Saudis and their GCC partners in power) has nothing to do with humanitarianism or democracy but is straight power-wealth empire games. If you want to deny that, you can, but do you think anyone who isn’t a brain-dead corporate media zombie will believe you?
Let’s see the Vice President of Veterans for Peace Jerry Condon goes to Syria as a guest of Assad and comes back saying we are demonizing a guy who used poison gas and barrel bombs on his own people, not to mention the ignorance at describing a country who’s basis of law is Sharia as a secular state. Typical BS from apologists for dictators like Assad and Putin posing as peace activists.
If you want to read a pretty good refute to these poseurs read this:
http://inthesetimes.com/article/19388/u.s.-peace-activists-arent-listening-to-progressive-syrian-voices
And here is the response to the In These Times article from the United National Antiwar Coalition:
http://nepajac.org/AWdefense.html
What is really B.S. is how many Americans can still delude themselves that the USA has any political legitimacy to overthrow another country’s government or that its laughable pretexts about “promoting democracy” and “humanitarian intervention” carry any moral weight–in Syria or elsewhere.
You want to see American “democracy” or “humanitarianism” in action, look at what the USA did to Libya, where it overthrew the Libyan government by arming and backing Islamic jihadist groups and turned Libya (which had the highest development index in Africa according to UN) into a failed state and even got its own ambassador, Christopher Stevens, killed by … wait for it… Islamic jihadists in the process.
This is the same Machiavellian gameplan that America is implementing against Syria, where the USA and its democratic allies like Saudi Arabia and Turkey sponsor Islamic jihadist groups and head-choppers that are whitewashed as “moderate rebels.”
Allying with political Islam: The United States’ tactical alliances with Al Qaeda and its associates in Syria
https://gowans.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/allying-with-political-islam-the-united-states-tactical-alliances-with-al-qaeda-and-its-associates-in-syria/
Then, there are also the examples of Iraq and Afghanistan, which America has turned into shining models of democracy and the rule of law with its invasions of those nations–just ignore the hundreds of thousands of people that been murdered, maimed, or turned into refugees thanks to American benevolence.
The American Empire always disguises its wars of aggression under many guises like Weapons of Mass Destruction, the (phony) War on Terrorism, Humanitarian Intervention, or defending freedom and democracy.
But the one constant is that the Land of the Free leaves a trail of dead bodies that number in the millions in its murderous wake–from Vietnam to Central America to the Middle East and Central Asia.
Gil, that article suffers from the same deficiency several on Twitter have issued about this ostensible immorality among “some on the left.” Let’s look at this paragraph:
There’s illustrative links embedded. And you know what? One is to a site I’ve never heard of, one to “Global Research,” and one to “Counterpunch.”
I’ve never relied on GR, and haven’t seen anyone else here do it, either. Or on Twitter. I don’t rely on them because too much that they publish is, to put it mildly, dubious in terms of fact claims. Similarly, very few, have relied on contemporary Counterpunch. Since Alexander Cockburn lost control, and then died, it’s just not reliable.
So, I want to know who — name names — are these specific and notable people on the left who are pro-Assad, and what specifically did they say to support that accusation?
George Galloway said Syria was lucky to have Assad as their president.
Direct quote? Link? (And a lot of leftists have reservations about Galloway for multiple reasons.)
Sounds like you are already trying to discount Galloway as being a legitimate notable person on the left Mona.
“Galloway told Syrians they were “lucky” to have Assad as their president, ”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/oct/28/otherparties.georgegalloway
No, Gil. I said a DIRECT quote. Not this from that 2005 Guardian piece:
(And any statement reported in 2005 isn’t reasonably used to pillory “the left” in 2016 about contemporary matters in Syria.)
I must retire to bed now so for the time being less just leave it with that the “they” being referred to were rhetorical.
“Rhetorical,” eh? I think it’s then reasonable to take that as your not knowing of any notable people on the left who are pro-Assad in the context of the current Syrian civil war.
Good nite.
just in case you missed it above.
http://www.ajamubaraka.com/elections-in-syria-the-people-say-no-to-foreign-intervention/
now I have named two more than you when I asked for specific names on who it was doing the “pretending” When Glenn wrote:
“But stop insulting everyone’s intelligence by pretending that these donations were motivated by noble ends.”
Does it make me “pro-Assad” to note that he is the elected leader of the recognized government of a nation where our government has been trying for years to effect violent “regime change?”
Not that I’m notable , of course, but I am of the left.
Remind me who he ran against when he was elected Doug . I remember the the date of the election July 10, 2000, but for some reason I can’t recall who he ran against. Do you know?
Your memory is failing, Gil. The most recent election was in June of 2014.
The candidates were Assad, Maher al-Hajjad and Hassan al-Nuri. The latter two were largely unknown. The two main opposition groups in Syria boycotted the election.
Anyway, surely you aren’t suggesting that failure to conduct free and fair elections, or harsh treatment of dissidents, justifies US or other intervention, are you? I mean, if that were the case. . .
No one was permitted to run against him in 2000 and 2007. His opponents in2014 were selected by the govt I would assume their unknown status was a reason for the selection. Doesn’t justify US intervention, or Russian intervention. Might justify opposition using force after being slaughtered during protests. What do you think?
I think Hamas could run with that argument.
Yep as long as you define firing rockets at civilian areas as protests.
Er, Gil, do you know of any specific and notable people on the left who are pro-Assad in the context of the current civil war? People who can be directly quoted showing pro-Assad sympathies in the context of this civil war? You know, when this accusation about “the left” started getting somewhat pervasively tossed around?
No, Gil, I define it as a response to being slaughtered during protests — and to being dispossessed of a homeland, subjected to decades of ethnic cleansing, etc.
So than you believe that it is valid when it suits your political opinion but not justified when it doesn’t. hmmm
Dumb-down, irredeemable Americans. There’s no hope for you.
Did you mean to say dumbed-down?
If you’re going to generalize an entire nation’s intelligence level, at least have the decency to use proper insults.
If Johnson were president maybe other Americans could likewise be blissfully ignorant of Aleppo. Jesse Ventura is endorsing Johnson.
I have to say the his running slogan “Feel the Johnson” is bit quirky.
America must “save” every human being residing in a nation with a despicable murderous leader.
So long as that leader and nation is situated in a place with ample quantities of oil underneath it or otherwise occupies some “economically vital” real estate.
Human beings at the mercy of despicable murderous leaders in Asia or Africa, or South America, not so much.
At any given moment, it may be hard to identify where a leppo is. But when you find it, you know it won’t move, because a leppo can’t change its spot.
The leppos of the Serengeti are especially hard to spot.
Oh ffs, it’s pronounced / ? ? l ? p o? /; Arabic: ??? ?? / ALA-LC: ?alab, IPA.
*btw, Mr. Johnson’s response to the question, once he recognized the decidedly Boston Irish lilt trying to pronounce ‘Aleppo’ completely out of any context (just out of the blue), was informed, knowledgeable and reasonable (i.e. try to garner global support for peace in Syria). .. bob.
The Libertarian focus is on fixing/minimizing the domestic government and disentangling from the rest of the world. Why would he care about particular city names and crises in yet another regime change war the US has gotten mixed up in? His answer about cooperating with Russia and getting out of there made sense. Subordinates in his administration could be delegated to deal with specifics.
Someone running for president should have a basic grasp of pertinent issues that will face the incoming president. Maybe rando Twitter libertarian could get away with a blanket answer (all foreign involvement is bad), but the guy aiming to be head of state of a global superpower should know at least a little bit about one of the major centres of conflict in the world right now.
If I have ambitions to be surgeon general, I can’t rest solely on “junk food is bad” and not know what Coke is.
I dunno, Lucas, I think Max Blumenthal gets this right:
Johnson certainly has a position on Syria, Russia and foreign policy, a position far saner than so many who can find Aleppo on a map.
What is the last paragraph doing and where is it going?
Mackey at his worst writes like a duck following a trail of cracked corn. So he thought he’d end this article by mentioning that GWB is now “broadly popular.” Okay. Whatever.
I think this whole article was just an excuse to post two talking points, “boy injured by evil Assad military forces” as well as “Assad suspected to use chemical weapons”, period. That accounts for its disjointed, wandering character. All people are supposed to get out of this is “Assad bad, must be removed” – regurgitated PR is all it is.
Gary Johnson didn’t know what Aleppo was, but he wouldn’t risk WWIII. Hillary Clinton no doubt knows all about Aleppo, but she may well bring about a world-wide disaster, as an American researcher at Russia’s Foreign Ministry just wrote of in Foreign Policy: The Kremlin Really Believes That Hillary Wants to Start a War With Russia.
And they are not wrong to believe that:
The woman is a warmongering monster. The tragedy is that Gray Johnson, or Jill Stein, stand no chance. It’s going to be one monster or another.
It is indeed a tragedy. This contest should be limited to Johnson and Stein – two rational and peace-promoting individuals who have different ideas that should be seriously debated before the American public. Instead we will get one of two living nightmares. The U.S. is a cruel joke.
Raqqa is commonly described as ISIS’s “capital in Syria” or “de facto capital in Syria,” but if Hill was confusing Aleppo with “the capital of ISIS,” that must be confusing Aleppo with Mosul, the ISIS capital de jure and the de facto ISIS capital in Iraq (and where the, er, head of state, Baghdadi, resides).
ISIS has co-capitals Langley and Riyadh.
Indeed!
Sounds like an Abbott and Costello routine.
What’s happening in Syria is bad but we need to focus on America. We have huge problems here!!
So Mr Johnson didn’t answer the question better? Whoops……..
In checking the transcript, this Aleppo question came on the heels of this question, completely unrelated to foreign policy:
Barnicle: But do you worry about the Nader effect in 2000?
That is just something to keep in mind, as all the videos of the happenstance does not show the run up to the flubb nor have I heard any commenters bring up how out of sorts the question appears when deprived of aforeig any policy context.