In the hacked recording of a private conversation with campaign donors in February, Hillary Clinton distanced herself from progressive goals like “free college, free healthcare” and described her place on the political spectrum as spanning from the center-left to the center-right.
Clinton has been inconsistent in the past about espousing political labels. She has at times touted herself as stalwart liberal. For instance, she said last July: “I take a backseat to no one when you look at my record in standing up and fighting for progressive values.” But a few months later, she told a group in Ohio: “You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center. I plead guilty.”
The newly disclosed comments came in audio, apparently from hacked emails, that was revealed this week by the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative blog run by a Republican communications strategist. Clinton was speaking at a Virginia fundraiser hosted by Beatrice Welters, the former U.S. ambassador to Trinidad and Tobago, and her husband Anthony Welters, the executive chairman of an investment consulting firm founded by former Clinton aide Cheryl Mills.
Clinton’s opponent at the time, Sen. Bernie Sanders, was pointing to successful programs in Norway and Sweden, which provide universal daycare, family leave, and government sponsored healthcare and college education, as policies that he would seek to adopt.
CLINTON: It is important to recognize what’s going on in this election. Everybody who’s ever been in an election that I’m aware of is quite bewildered because there is a strain of, on the one hand, the kind of populist, nationalist, xenophobic, discriminatory kind of approach that we hear too much of from the Republican candidates. And on the other side, there’s just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free healthcare, that what we’ve done hasn’t gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know, go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means, and half the people don’t know what that means, but it’s something that they deeply feel. So as a friend of mine said the other day, I am occupying from the center-left to the center-right. And I don’t have much company there. Because it is difficult when you’re running to be president, and you understand how hard the job is — I don’t want to overpromise. I don’t want to tell people things that I know we cannot do.
Listen here:
Clinton went on to explain why she felt so many Democratic voters were gravitating to Sanders.
CLINTON: Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement. They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future. I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.” So that is a mindset that is really affecting their politics. And so if you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. We want people to be idealistic. We want them to set big goals. But to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals.
Listen here:
Clinton has been accused numerous times in the past of patronizing young Sanders supporters. On Meet The Press in April, Clinton said she said “I feel sorry sometimes for the young people” who believe Sanders’s claims about her taking money from the fossil fuel industry.
During her remarks, she reiterated her belief that politics is the art of the possible, dismissing the more aspirational approach of Sanders and his supporters. “I want to be very clear about the progress I think we can make,” she said.
Top photo: Hillary Clinton in Florida.
IN THE HACKED recording of a private conversation with campaign donors in February, Hillary Clinton distanced herself from progressive goals like “free college, free healthcare”-how stupid could she be to try and convince young voters she didn’t know that hack was going to take place? Seriously?
Clinton went on to explain why she felt so many Democratic voters were gravitating to Sanders. I wonder why she wasted time doing so instead of lavishing him with praise, considering the nsa decided she would be the potus this year probably in the early fifties. What a squandered opportunity for justice and truthful rhetoric.
“she reiterated her belief that politics is the art of the possible, dismissing the more aspirational approach of Sanders and his supporters. “I want to be very clear about the progress I think we can make,” she said.” Wonder how many war crimes are conditional as part of her presidency under the nsa. Have to wait and see how embarrassing she makes that for every single American.
Clinton noted the reasons that Sanders was garnering support among younger voters, and did so accurately. If any Sanders supporters are getting upset at what she has said, it is likely because it is accurate. People love to say that they just wish that politicians would tell the truth, then recoil whenever they do.
What she said was not “true” but merely a good rationalization for dismissing legitimate concerns.
It is not totally inconsistent with the kind of crap she regularly says though, I’ll give her that.
Any bureaucrat, who tells you that she means to help you but you have to be ‘realistic’, fully intends to fail you completely.
This hyper-entitled empress-in-waiting begrudges the public its “unrealistic” expectation that the government should pay for the public’s healthcare and education; both of which make a person less burdensome, and more valuable, to society.
Both healthcare and education are examples of INVESTMENTS; not EXPENSES.
WAR is an EXPENSE (by every measure).
Hillary Clinton is more than willing to BREAK strong bodies and BREAK strong minds; it is indefensible that she is unwilling to BUILD strong bodies and BUILD strong minds.
Despite her entirely exploitative outlook, Hillary Clinton has the audacious contempt to describe herself in terms that include ‘center left’.
The kind of people who describe a life of power and privilege as “a life of public service” can’t (and will never try to) be of service to the public.
This election is a choice between this fascistic warmonger or fascism untethered.
Investment vs Expense
Well said.
Are you in the accounting profession? You give the very definition of an asset, a future benefit with education and health care as opposed to no future benefit with war..ie expense.
The thing about her when you listen to her off script is – she doesn’t have real contempt for people – any people – lefties, alt-rights, opponents, anyone. If anything, she’s had to fake contempt and anger throughout the campaign. She’s just too jaded and frankly, I think her ego is not that big – not big enough to easily get riled or to think herself above others. She understands that people are different, and you can’t just wish some of them gone from the Earth.
Her morality isn’t a gut instinct, but rationally chosen. But it’s not chosen wrongly – I think when she isn’t lost in ticking off policy goals, she fundamentally wants better lives for people. And she’s pragmatic in practice, but she doesn’t have contempt for idealism – no contempt for anyone! – and if you’re an idealist, she’ll be fine with that, and still listen to you, and try to work with you.
For every actor, there’s an agent. Every charity has lawyers. J. K. Rowling has an editor. We can’t have contempt for the people who are willing to do the work to get us where we’re trying to go.
And I think if voters continue to hold her accountable, she can work for them, actually give them what they want.
I’m a millennial, and I can see this.
This comment. This. Emphasis mine.
http://www.ianwelsh.net/how-us-presidential-politics-guarantees-inevitable-decline/#comment-80794
” I don’t want to overpromise. I don’t want to tell people things that I know we cannot do.“
Wait, wait. Hold on.
A Politician who’s more worried about being honest than making promises just to get votes?
Did anyone else notice this?
Thus, a $12/hr minimum wage in poor agricultural areas might be more practical; while New York and California can go to $15 an hour on their three to five year schedule.
It’s WORKABLE. Employers in agricultural areas would STAGGER trying to pay $15 an hour in one jump.
Practicality might not appeal as well as idealism, but it gets more done.
“On Meet The Press in April, Clinton said she said “I feel sorry sometimes for the young people” who believe Sanders’s claims about her taking money from the fossil fuel industry.”
Especially because Senator Sanders was taking donations from the same Fossil Fuel industry workers.
That’s not “patronizing” people, it’s just honesty.
When people are desperate they’ll believe the person making the biggest promises.
Hopefully honesty will win out.
>>> Thus, a $12/hr minimum wage in poor agricultural areas might be more practical; while New York and California can go to $15 an hour on their three to five year schedule.It’s WORKABLE. Employers in agricultural areas would STAGGER trying to pay $15 an hour in one jump. <<<
Would you like:
1) A guaranteed job? Never get fired? 2) Free housing? 3) Free healthcare?
4) Free childcare? 5) Free transportation? 6) Free education? 7) Free entertainment? 8) Free clothing? 9) Free food?
Would you like to come work for me on my brand new federally funded plantation?
Slavery on a State-owned Farm awaits you. The Govt is owned by bankers pushing worthless pieces of paper.
A $1 paper "dollar" is worth -1 dollars (negative 1). 15 times 0 = 0. 20 times 0 = zero. 1 times 0 = 0.
You are a slave. All slaves are worth 1 banker's BMW over 72 years.
It's better to be a welfare recipient. Everyone stops working. Farmers quit planting. Bankers starve.
I like how you quoted the person on minimum wage then you just made a welfare slave state strawman. Maybe try to, I don’t know, make a real point next time?
I was actually expressing a counterpoint.
What the American Public likes to call the “1%”… would actually starve if it wasn’t for the rest of us.
Something to consider. We need to get rid of the psychopaths in office. Life would be better. Psychiatry tends to claim that psychopaths typically make up 2% of the population (though I think it’s probably closer to 5 or 6%).
Think about it.
They’ve created an artificial world based on paper or plastic that nobody can eat. Sorta like “healthcare” — healthcare is NOT a piece of paper known as an insurance policy. (See my prior commentary about how to identify the psychopaths — since they sell (and FORCE us to buy little pieces of paper with the fruits of our labor)
coun·ter·point
?koun(t)?r?point/
noun
1.
MUSIC
the art or technique of setting, writing, or playing a melody or melodies in conjunction with another, according to fixed rules.
2.
an argument, idea, or theme used to create a contrast with the main element.
“I have used my interviews with parents as a counterpoint to a professional judgment”
verb
1.
MUSIC
add counterpoint to (a melody).
“the orchestra counterpoints the vocal part”
2.
emphasize by contrast.
“the cream walls and maple floors are counterpointed by black accents”
Center left in Washington is Neo-Liberalism. Center right is Authoritarian Capitalism. It’s fortunate that the social sciences stripped the American populace of political understanding by the time the baby boomers were born or we’d realize just how disturbing her statement really is. Then we might resist.
Put another way,
* “center-right” is the right wing of the Corporate Party, the Republican establishmentand the money behind them.
* “center-left” is the left wing of the Corporate Party, the Democratic establishment: Obama, the Clintons, and the money behind them.
The US corporate-funded media exists to provide political theater to mask one-party rule, and to restrict “legitimate debate” to parameters set by that Corporate Party.
As usual some excellent reporting by Lee Fang. This is it folks. The end of America as we know it. And Hillary Clinton is the new Queen in waiting. Hillary Clinton will get what she wants and that does not bode well for millennials or any of us. I see Bill and Chelsea as not far removed from being accomplices in her skanky plans for more power.
The super wealthy have got this election all sewed up. It seems that Trump appears to be a populist which makes us all think “are fuggin kidding?” and there is your real WTF moment. In my opinion Trump is a side show and little more than a clown. Trump is a simple comic relief, at best.
At this moment I stand back and gaze at this slow motion American train wreck and tell my friends to get out of the USA, even if that is a possibility.
Good luck…
Micheal Chertoff the skeletor-like slagheap of fear-mongering who made incomprehensible amounts of profit off electronically skinning us of our clothing in airports, and whose machines proved less than useless, has now endorsed Hillary Clinton:
Yes. Hillary can be counted on to keep Chertoff & Cos. gravy train full and running on time.
And people still seem to wonder why millenials reject these people.
Link:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/michael-chertoff-endorses-clinton-229044
Clinton-backed branch of foundation donor GM now caught in major scandal
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/03/clinton-backed-branch-foundation-donor-gm-now-caught-in-major-scandal.html
Clinton isn’t tied to any of the allegations.
No, but this shade of cronyism, which she seems to wear often, really doesn’t look good on her.
This tape should disabuse any self-respecting progressive that Hillary is a fascist fraud. As can be seen elsewhere, she is a proven war criminal based on her role in the destruction of Libya. By the way, in response to the propaganda post above, the “white helmets” are the western propaganda arm of the jihadi thugs the yankee regime is using to attack civilization in Syria.
Crooked Hellary feels ugly and despicable about her weapons dealing for these wars she created and/or amped up. Instead of admitting her guilt, she figures she can make up for it by promising to call us heroes to come and rescue them, at great expense, which we pay, to help israel occupy half of syria in their yinon plan. Clever girl? Devious.
Her pneumonia is going to get noticeably worse as the lies and cons she perpetrated destroy her immune system and pull her down hard.
Why would HRC go along w/ or aid an Israeli interest? Is she Xtian Right like GWB was?
Recently read or heard that Netanyahu seems not to care whether the next prez is DJT or HRC, why would that be so?
in reality
hillary occupies nuttinyahu’s ambitions
hillary occupies kissinger’s fantasies
hillary occupies Palestine
hillary occupies the offices of the weapons makers
hillary occupies the wallets of the weapons buyers
hillary occupies the TPP
hillary occupies lloyd blankfein
hillary occupies wallstreet money
hillary occupies ?
Hillary occupies… space.
A couple things: One…poor Hillary. She thinks that change comes from practical thinking and realistic goals. On an individual level it holds true, but when commanding the attention of a large and diverse populace, change comes from exciting people to imagine the seemingly impossible IS possible. It doesn’t matter if it is still impossible, because the energy driven toward achieving it builds momentum from the sheer weight of the enthusiasm of it’s promise.
Two…I encourage everyone I meet from progressive to conservative to vote FOR Trump. Where Clinton has the intelligence to get away with shady shit not in the best interests of the general public, Trump is historically terrible at it. THE MOMENT there are serious legal ramifications for him going “off script”, republicans and democrats alike will go after him faster than you can say “jizz stain on a blue dress”. Pence will fill his shoes, and Ryan will fill his. The deadlock will continue, and all of this sets up a Warren ticket in 2020, and gives us our last hope for a true progressive President in our lifetimes most likely.
Well, what did we expect? She can’t relate and she doesn’t understand what we are fighting for. She’s never getting my vote.
This lady will say and promise anything she can to secure their votes. What has her charity ever done for Americans ? How much food has her foundation ever bought and distributed(in
What has her charity ever done for Americans ? How much food has her foundation ever bought and distributed(in
– – How much food has her foundation ever bought and distributed(in America or anywhere else) ?
– – How much aids medicine has the foundation ever bought and given to Aids patients – any where ?
– – How many tons of building supplies has the Foundation bought and shipped to build structures for the needy – where – when ?
http://freedomoutpost.com/fbi-director-comey-took-millions-from-clinton-foundation-defense-contractor/
I wonder if anyone can deny this statement:
Glenn Greenwald supports Murtaza Hussain’s article, and Glenn Greenwald will vote for Clinton.
I wonder if anyone can prove this statement either.
Also why do you care who Glenn Greenwald votes for?
It helps inform my opinion of him.
Is it really that crazy of a decision to vote for Hillary at this point? Trump is a child. And Jill Stein is not going to win. If you’re living in a state that can go either way, I don’t see why it’s so crazy to vote for Clinton. Also, I don’t see how it really informs your opinion, for certainty, beyond the conclusion that he might think that Trump is dangerous.
I have an unfavorable opinion about everyone who would vote for Clinton *or* Trump, regardless of whatever excuse they may offer for it. I want to know how intelligent Greenwald actually is or isn’t.
That’s some fine political bigotry there Maisie.
If only everybody could be as pure and moral as you!
Since this means you have an unfavorable opinion of most the U.S., who do you like!?
These are very serious times, Nate. Voting for Trump or Clinton shows a extraordinarily dangerous misunderstanding that actually threatens us all, and I have no sympathy for it from either side.
I don’t think Maisie hates Hillary&Trump voters.
She just feels they are missing the point.
I feel about like that too.
Serious times indeed. However, last time I checked the polls, there were two candidates in real contention.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo
Sometimes in life, you don’t get what exactly what you want, but have to make a choice between the best available person while also considering the consequences of the other competitor winning. Your choice is Jill Stein. Good for you. I’ll pick Hillary and it will be a dead simple decision. Don’t like it, well add me to your list of unfavorables, but keep this in mind:
“If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole.”
Decide what you like. That I have an unfavorable opinion of you and every other establishmentarian or coward is unlikely to mean anything to you or them.
The fact that in this supposed democracy there are two entirely unacceptable candidates says pointedly that the system is a joke – and supporting it by voting for either Trump or Clinton rather than challenging it or expressing a vote of no confidence in the establishment is to be an obsequious betrayer of what is good about humanity. And I would not be being true to myself if I didn’t express this.
If we survive the next presidency, it’ll be because of people like me demanding more, not those like you accepting what is offered and saying thanks. But survival is now not guaranteed by any stretch.
One of the few things I’ve seen you say lately that is correct!
And what, conversely voting for Stein or Johnston is the path to righteousness? Um no. And your scapegoating the “establishment” is a smokescreen for the fact that you can’t really articulate and justify your views. The “establishment” could include anybody and everybody, except of course for you and your candidate.
Answer me this simple question: Who else in government (Federal Executive or Legislative branches) isn’t establishment?
Eww, such narcissism is so unbecoming.
You have the mind of a servant and the mouth of an officious oaf, Nate, which, while rather humorous, does get a bit tiresome. That you honestly can’t comprehend my posts surprised me at first, but now I see that you’re genuine I’ll stop teasing you.
And your scapegoating the “establishment” is a smokescreen for the fact that you can’t really articulate and justify your views.
That’s rich, aimed as it is at one of the more articulate commenters here and coming from the guy who wrote this profound gem:
Regarding your disdain for her well-earned criticism of the establishment, in that same comment you also wrote:
That’s pretty much what Maisie’s been saying in one way or another, consistently, since she started commenting here. It was, however, something you’ve never said, as far as I can remember, so it was quite shocking to read. All in all, that was quite the little rant you produced.
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/28/white-house-is-profoundly-wrong-about-the-most-embarrassing-thing-senate-has-done/?comments=1#comment-288080
such narcissism is so unbecoming.
Your projection is what’s unbecoming. Stop picking on people who still believe in morality and a better future than the thin gruel and stale crumbs on offer from people who keep all the cream for themselves. She’s right. The system they’ve set up is criminally corrupt. It needs to be broken.
OMG. You really thought that was a legitimate post!?
That’s hilarious! That was about an 11 out of 10 on both mockery and sarcasm towards dahoit and you didn’t detect it!?
Oh man, that’s rich
>>> “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole.” <<<
Actually, if you run into assholes all day, … you must be a politician.
seems like you run into an asshole every time you look in the mirror
Good luck determining intelligence that way.
>>> If you’re living in a state that can go either way, I don’t see why it’s so crazy to vote for Clinton. <<<
I can. The era of Clinton/Bush started in 1980. That's 35 years of Clinton/Bush.
TWO GENERATIONS.
We won't survive a third. Trump's not the best choice either… Why?
It's like George Carlin said, "Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations that've long since bought and paid for, the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pocket, and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and the information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them."
Long and short: We are being given the same choice that China faced in the 1930s — Chiang Kai-shek vs Mao.
JD Rockfeller set that one up, too. Chaing lost and fled to Taiwan. That's why we send Navy ships to defend Taiwan every time China burps.
We went to war with Japan for the same reason. Std Oil and Michelin.
We went to war in Vietnam for the Same Reason… Std Oil and Michelin and Chase.
We went to war in Afghan for the same reason… Friends of JPMorgan/Chase.
If you want to do business as an American inside China… you gotta get the blessing of JPMorgan/Chase.
The song remains the same.
I miss George Carlin. We as many truth tellers like him as we can find.
Voting for people you don’t like is crazy and nobody should do it. And if everybody would take that principled stand, we would have a better world. And if people would think more than one election at a time, we would have a better world. Now:
Other considerations bother me far more than the prospect of a Trump presidency.:
1) above all else, voting for Hillary tells the Democratic Party once again that the Left are not to be taken seriously: we really would prove ourselves to be exactly what Rahm called us. To further enable D party rightward movement is absolutely THE worst thing that could happen to regular politics in this country. Basically, voting for Hillary is political suicide and I’m not jumping.
2) generally, cultural/political energy flows to the opposition: liberals are awake when an R is in the White House. It would be nice if that happened, and meanwhile it’s the right wing that takes a nice nap with an R in the White House: they are extra busy & creative and stuff with a D in there.
3) for example, most right-wing terror occurs with a D in the White House, so the fears of enabling white supremacists with a Trump win are actually kind of the opposite of what really goes on — granted, maybe this is truly different, but I don’t think so.
4) after 8 years of apologism and jettisoning all principles they ever believed they held (I don’t doubt their sincerity any more than I doubt their very short memories), mainstream liberals are getting really weird and their bizarre behavior during this year: reviving the Cold War, running down young people: suggests worse is to come when Hillary is actually in the White House.
5) Hillary’s coalition with Republicans is far more scary to me than Donald Trump. I am absolutely serious about this: this would be it, the horrid one party rule.
6) Finally, why exactly do we pretend that we elect Democrats merely to be presidents, but somehow Republicans get elected dictator?
voting for Hillary tells the Democratic Party once again that the Left are not to be taken seriously: […] To further enable D party rightward movement is absolutely THE worst thing that could happen to regular politics in this country.
Ever since the New Deal created a few small measures of sanctuary for the poor from the stormy economic vicissitudes created by their “betters” there has been a focused, concerted and sustained effort to ratchet all political goals to the right and remove anything that impedes the upward flow of money and power. Anything that smacked in the least of socialism or that rendered even the tiniest of victories to those deemed unworthy has been attacked viciously. This ratcheting began picking up pace with the Clintons and their strategy of triangulation – which really was nothing more sophisticated than stealing the ideas of Republicans and repackaging them in prettier wrappings – and has continued escalating ever since.
Basically, voting for Hillary is political suicide and I’m not jumping.
The analogy that best suits is not that of Wile E. Coyote stepping off the ineffable cliff, though there are definitely people it applies to in terms of willful ignorance wrt consequences. To me, it rather feels like we’re being forced to take small draughts of a poison that won’t offer us immediate surcease, but rather a slow, excruciating death as it rots our vital organs from the inside out.
mainstream liberals are getting really weird and their bizarre behavior during this year: reviving the Cold War, running down young people: suggests worse is to come when Hillary is actually in the White House.
It’s desperation. They truly believe that they are the only people fit to lead us in these perilous times, that it’s her turn BY RIGHT and they will NOT entertain the slightest suggestion that their ideas are stale, out-of-date and will only lead to more disaster. For them, it won’t. For them it will mean sinecures that will enrich and empower them further.
The Sanders campaign frightened the shit out of them. They will not tolerate anything that works against them getting what they believe they so richly deserve. And, like Hillary with her political kill list, they take names, issue numbers and systematically set out to destroy anyone who dares suggest that what they are doing is corrupt and/ir harmful to the country at large (let alone the rest of the world).
5) Hillary’s coalition with Republicans is far more scary to me than Donald Trump.
Yes. Trump would have all of the Dem establishment as well as a portion of the Republican lined up against him. The CIA pretty much told him to go fuck himself if he thinks they’ll torture for him (they’ve had a bellyful of problems from it even with the Bush and Obama administrations covering their asses). The list of people who have publicly rejected Trump is long. Conversely, the bipartisanship we will see with Clinton will make Obama look like a shining example of revolutionary lefty fervor.
Finally, why exactly do we pretend that we elect Democrats merely to be presidents, but somehow Republicans get elected dictator?
Republicans have never hesitated to take whatever they want, nor to use whatever tactics needed to succeed. In-your-face gleefully merciless “fuck-yous” to everyone not properly aligned. Democrats, while not using such blatantly gross tactics, work in far more deleteriously effective ways ensuring that the gains Republicans make against the rest of us are cemented firmly in place. Republicans are the teeth of the ratchet that keeps moving us to the right, while Democrats are the pawl that engages with the teeth to prevent the wheel from moving in any but one direction.
All of which leads to your first paragraph, which is spot on. The only way this will change is if we work for it and support candidates at all levels who also work for it. LOTE is just a fucked up rationalization that keeps us in our place.
>>> The Sanders campaign frightened the shit out of them. They will not tolerate anything that works against them getting what they believe they so richly deserve. <<<
This is the KEY issue. What issue was he on to?
Glass-Steagall repeal. Why?
Glass-Steagall was originally passed to stop bank speculation with depositor's money on the NY Stock Exchange after the 1929 crash. The crash was caused by bank speculators on the Stock Exchange using average American's and businesses' deposits. In 1933, there were massive runs by depositors to retrieve what money was left in the banks from their own accounts. The money wasn't there anymore. So, in March 33, the Federal Government declared the National Bank Holiday that shut down all banks in the US.
Glass-Steagall was passed and implemented that prohibited bank speculation in the stock markets (or anything similar) with depositors' money.
Derivatives were created by David Rockefeller/Chase/AIG after the Chrysler bailout of 1980. Rockefeller personally loaned Chrysler/Iaccoca a wad of money — but, this time, with a USGvt/taxpayer guarantee. He couldn't lose.
So, they started selling something called a derivative — which is actually pretty simple — it's a share in the interest money returns from government guaranteed mortgages. The problem is: A derivative has two downsides and only one upside. The seller of a derivative actually gets his money back over night… and with the government guarantee…. if the mortgagee goes bankrupt or pays off early, the value of the derivative actually approaches or becomes 0.
These pieces of crap commercial paper were sold to everyone — especially pensions around the world.
Guess what? When Chrysler died and GM almost died…. WHOA!!!!!! Those were the main sources for mortgages for the derivative markets.
How big are the automotive industries??? ANSWER: They even modified your house (a garage and driveway) to accomodate a product from Detroit.
A company as big as Chrysler cannot walk into bankruptcy court, overnight. That was planned for at least two years ahead of the actual filing. INSIDERS knew about it… THAT'S BIG!…. 9 months before Chrysler walked into BK Court, the INSIDERS dumped everything (derivatives).
AIG? Rockefeller Brothers Trust was on the Board of AIG… the derivatives seller of Rockefeller derivatives. IN ESSENCE, RBT and AIG got paid TWICE!
All of the above would have been stopped by amending Glass-Steagall before the caca hit the proverbial fan.
But, that wasn't in accord with , "the plan" — bankrupt America and usher in global government ruled by bankers and calculators.
Instead, what did we get???? Bank Holiday, 2008… and it's never stopped.
Good summary.
And we have Bill Clinton and a shit ton of Dems in the Senate and House to thank for the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act that repealed Glass-Steagall.
Voting LOTE pretty much tells both parties you’ll suck whatever ass they put in front of you.
hillary reminds me of mitt romney.
“Yes, but she’s doing everything backwards and in high heels –”
Signed,
Her Most Ardent Supporters
‘Wednesday Hillary Clinton is done’: Reports Julian Assange’s announcement on Tuesday will finish her
Read more: http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/10/02/wednesday-hillary-clinton-done-reports-julian-assanges-announcement-tuesday-will-finish-396507#ixzz4Lx5KdLTW
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/10/02/wednesday-hillary-clinton-done-reports-julian-assanges-announcement-tuesday-will-finish-396507
It feels like Julian Assange has said something similar to this tune like 10 times in the past several months.
Alright. Shrillary Shroooo’s to the right of Pol Pot and to the left of Eugene McCarthy.
I know you guys hate it when I challenge the Sanders myths, so I’ll just leave this on its own.
Bernie was the best buy something happened. A threat, a promise for something, i dont get it. myth? He was genuine, he should explain.
Hellary treats mainstreeters the same way her thieving wallstreet allies do, like targets. America is Hellary’s dartboard.
Which myth are you referring to, the one where he DIDN’T say way back when that he would support the Democratic nominee whoever it was?
Or are you referring to some other myth?
I’m referring, collectively, to the myths that add up to a Sanders who is other than a crafty, run-of-the-mill liberal interventionist Democrat in a socialist costume.
Of course he was always going to support the nominee. That’s simply more evidence that he’s a phony. Too bad his credulous young supporters couldn’t see the truth staring them in the face before they were, predictable, sold out.
Kinda like Obama, eh? When Lincoln said that you can fool some of the people all of the time, he must have been thinking about ever-hopeful “liberals.”
“Of course he was always going to support the nominee. That’s simply more evidence that he’s a phony.”
Try to make sense. He said he would support the nominee. He supports the nominee. It would be weird if doing what you said you would do made you a “phony.”
Try again.
You’re not really this dense, Vic. But you do a good job of pretending.
If you continue this silliness, I’m just going to ignore you as a troll.
Doug, “troll” is not an argument-winning magic word, whatever you may have heard.
Anyway. I am very glad that Jill Stein is not a charter member with you of the Bitter Bobs of The Left club. Otherwise we’d really be fucked. Yes, The “We Knew It Was Doomed To Begin With” club. And you’ve made SO MUCH happen over the years, yes. You want a mass movement but you really hate people in the aggregate. We get it.
Rather than whine and malign, Stein makes the most of what comes her way, as she shows in these excerpts from her interview with Jacobin:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/08/jill-stein-green-party-bernie-sanders-clinton-johnson/
” Q. You mentioned this voter revolt within this wider climate. How much of this do you attribute to the Bernie Sanders campaign? Do you consider his campaign a success despite how it ended?
A. Yeah, definitely. In my view it’s an incredible success because it mobilized a movement that lives way beyond the constraints of Bernie Sanders’s politics, which, unfortunately, are still married to the Democratic Party. It was a lesson in real time for his supporters, showing that you cannot have a revolutionary campaign inside of a counterrevolutionary party. It didn’t create the revolution, but it helped make it visible, and because Bernie Sanders had access to the tools of the Democratic Party, especially the debates and the media coverage, it unveiled the political resistance that’s out there. He certainly didn’t create it, but he did make it visible. The campaign was also successful in that it demonstrated the contradictions of the Democratic Party — that it won’t go there.”
AND:
Q. Do you think the Sanders campaign could have achieved the same level of success and profile if it had been an independent one?
A. Absolutely not. In a way this was the perfect storm — and not only because Bernie started in the Democratic Party and then the Democratic Party destroyed his campaign.”
So….the lesson is…………….Rather than just do an ideological purity thing, Jill Stein welcomes those who tried to work within that system and acknowleges that, thanks to them, MORE PEOPLE NOW KNOW IT IS FUCKED THAN DID BEFORE.
That’s the difference, Doug. More people know than did before.
I’ve been reading and listening to this incrementalist, LOTE bullshit for more than 50 years. And everything has gotten steadily worse.
I have no time for it, no patience for it, no respect for it. It is stupid and contemptible and I hold it in the contempt it deserves.
You are part of the problem.
You haven’t heard LOTE from me and if you have more than the memory of a goldfish you already know that. I’m voting for Stein, as I KNOW you know.
But I’m “part of the problem” anyway, unlike you.
You are part of nothing, so certainly not part of any problems.
Doug,
How does Sanders supporting Clinton mean he’s a phony? He said from the very beginning that if he lost, he’d support the deomocratic nominee. How exactly is Sanders being a phony.
I have all the sympathy for Jill Stein, believe me. But can you really blame Sanders for his fear of Trump? Trump couldn’t run a dishwasher. The guy is liable to ruin federal agencies. And I’m not saying the democrats haven’t done a good job of de-clawing government agencies, but they’ve at least done so at a slow pace, that can still be arrested. Trump is liable to try to disband the EPA. And with a republican congress, he might just be able to do god knows what.
Yes. Sanders has no excuse for believing, or pretending to, that Clinton is a lesser evil, or less dangerous than Trump. She is not, even a little bit.
Some people do care about competence (that’s understatement by the way),
and Trump is clearly incompetent. I actually didn’t think he was as stupid and crazy as he has demonstrably proven himself to be. He’s such a dope: I really thought that once he had the nom he would figure out that he should act like a semi-normal human.
He is so comically thin-skinned, I totally get why people prefer cynical competence to this freak who decides in fucking October to have a feud with a beauty queen contest winner. What a goddamn buffoon. Yeah that shit matters.
Still voting Jill Stein because other things matter more.
C’mon now Doug. You seem like a wise man. I can’t believe you can’t see the difference between a corrupt establishment hack like Clinton, and Trump, someone who would likely try to do away with freedom of the press, right to protest etc. (and I acknowledge, given what I saw of how Occupy Wall Street was treated, that the right to protest doesn’t really exist in the US anymore. You can only protest when they let you. Otherwise you get dogs sicked on you)
What freedom of the press?
Name on US newspaper,one MSM media outlet,or even one radio station pro Trump,or even pro Sanders for that matter,in this whole electoral fix?
I’m sure you are well aware of these facts,and it must burn your ass so many will still vote for Donald Trump and propel him to our POTUS,despite the absolute undemocratic nazilike attempt to steal this election for the worst possible pos in American history,bar none,HRC.
That “slow pace” is the problem. It’s like the proverbial frog in the pot of water that’s slowly boiling. It won’t realize it’s in danger until it’s too late. Likewise, most people won’t realize how much they’ve been screwed by both parties until it’s too late.
Well said.
The whole establishment rethug scum hate Trump,how does that figure in your equation?
He is an American renegade,a radical change from the neolibcons,and one we desperately need to escape the clutches of zion,whose MSM are trying to destroy him daily.
Is the blatant truth of that enough to shake the blanket of BS so many sleep under?
Or do they like our current squirrel cage?
Doug could just dislike and criticize Sanders, and he could support such positions easily enough, and we could just like it or lump it and disagree. But it’s not enough for him.
No, Doug has to cling to the insupportable charge that Sanders is “phony” because he said it once, and Doug won’t back down. Doug doesn’t have an argument re: “phony” so he’s just going to attack everybody now, and fetishize his bitterness, and do the lonely truthteller bit, and all that other schtick that more suits an Ayn Rand reader than somebody advocating for left politics.
In long and bitterly contentious threads here, during the primaries, I thoroughly reviewed and dissected Sanders’ record, demonstrating that it has been the record of a mainstream liberal interventionist Democrat from the moment he got to Washington and even more so since he made a deal with the Vermont Democratic establishment in which they agreed not to run candidates against him.
Sanders is, clearly and demonstrably, a phony. That you don’t know or understand this simply reveals that you either haven’t examined the evidence, or that, if you have, you simply refuse to believe the obvious.
It’s so “clear and demonstrable” yet you can’t even begin to do it. Phony is not gonna stick. It has to do with what the word “phony” means. I hope this helps.
Yep, all these posts, and all the ones you refer to, and you still haven’t done it. You have outlined things you don’t like about Sanders. You have raised objections to Sanders. Sanders is insufficiently Left.
Sanders should have broken ranks with the D party. These are arguable points….. But….you don’t want to make arguable points. You want to stamp your foot on “phony” because….I have no idea, honestly why this is your line in the sandbox.
The “phony” charge, of course, remains unsupported. You’ve barely tried. You STILL have not shown that he has ever presented himself as something he is not, or has not kept any promises that he has made.
So, you have not met the baseline for the definition of charge of “phony” you so helpfully laid out for us.
(Amusingly, for example, you actually said that Sanders promising to support whoever the D nominee is ahead of time —- and then actually doing precisely what he said he would do —- somehow supports your charge of “phony.” Which is ludicrous: how in the world does keeping a publicly-made promise make someone a phony? It’s literally the exact opposite. You don’t have an answer. There isn’t one. Give it up.)
The joke of the day :
“The multitudinous execrable reasons you and a whole host of other people are choosing her over Trump is that her interventionism’s costs aren’t direct in your life.” Pedinska
Does the” host of other people ” include Muslims :
“The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the nation’s largest Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization, today released the results of a six-state “Super Tuesday” poll of almost 2000 Muslim voters indicating that almost half of those voters (46 percent) support Hillary Clinton, followed by Bernie Sanders at 25 percent and 11 percent support for Donald Trump.”
CAIR, March 2016
Does it include Syrian Americans?
“We’re Americans of Syrian origin supporting Hillary Clinton because of her compassion for Syrian refugees…”
Syrian-Americans for Hillary Facebook
And they are welcome to vote as they choose.
If you think I don’t have my own conversations with Muslims then you are ignorant.
Have I already told you that these comment sections are a comedy show?
Example: According to you the lack of telepathic skills make somebody ignorant. How am I supposed to know with whom you have your conversations? I don’t know you and I have never met you.
Anyway since you do have conversations with Muslims you should convince the Syrian Americans you encounter not to vote for Hillary. I am sure it will not be that hard for you. You will easily offer them a better alternative. Trump doesn’t want them, Johnson doesn’t know where they are from, Baraka supports the dictator who is killing their families. And if they don’t vote it makes it easier for any of those candidates to be elected.
Have I already told you that these comment sections are a comedy show?
Can’t recall though the clown face you consistently wear is familiar…
According to you the lack of telepathic skills make somebody ignorant.
I only wrote two sentences, neither of them dealing with telepathy.
I don’t know you and I have never met you.
Thank you for admitting that, I was afraid people might start making assumptions. Fortunately, now that they know you’re knowledge of me is limited, they will judge your other pronouncements regarding my worth with that in mind.
Anyway since you do have conversations with Muslims you should convince the Syrian Americans you encounter not to vote for Hillary.
Sorry, have to decline. We have lots of discussions, they listen respectfully to me and I to them. But in the end it’s everyone’s own personal decision to determine for themselves who they should vote for. I’m not, nor ever have been, in the decision of trying to force that at all.
As Hillary herself said on her twitter account,
“You can’t just talk someone into trusting you. You’ve got to earn it … I believe what you say matters.”
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/747513069874589696
“Can’t recall through the clown face you consistently wear is familiar…”
Not surprising that you are more interested about the face than the substance. That’s a typical trait among those who support TI views.
“We have lots of discussions, they listen respectfully to me”
That I believe. Most Muslims are indeed very respectful even when facing ignorant individuals who assume they are unable to evaluate the costs of inaction versus intervention when choosing their next President.
Not surprising that you are more interested about the face than the substance.
Your ability to make assertions as if they are fact is truly unparalleled, though you do have significant competition here. I am confident that others here are capable of judging my substance with at least as much grace and elan as you yourself engage. Maybe even more!
Most Muslims are indeed very respectful even when facing ignorant individuals who assume they are unable to evaluate the costs of inaction versus intervention when choosing their next President.
They are lovely people. And pretty sure I made it clear that I don’t make assumptions about anyone’s circumstances, but rather respect that they are the only ones who can determine who supports their needs. But keep having those hallucinations. They’re entertaining to witness.
“Your ability to make assertions as if they are fact is truly unparalleled”
Your continuous attempt to evade responsibility for your own stance is baffling.
“I am confident that others here are capable of judging my substance..”
I am sure you are. It’s realistically a basket of TI supporters not a community of critical thinkers. One of them (Mona) still describes me as a liar and troll for correcting your false statement that the Clinton Foundation did not fund the reconstruction of the GHESKIO Centre.
“And pretty sure I made it clear that I DON’T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS about anyone’s circumstances”
That’s actually the joke of the day. Read your previous assumption again :
“The multitudinous execrable reasons you and a whole host of other people are choosing her over Trump is that her interventionism’s costs aren’t direct in your life”
“rather respect that they are the only ones who can determine who supports their needs”
I agree. Therefore the Syrian refugees, the Afghans, the Muslims…who will be affected by the next President policies should determine who support their needs. It’s up to them to evaluate Clinton intervention costs in their direct life not you.
you’re on fire Pedinska, great stuff throughout, makes me glad I tuned in
She also said,
“Vote your conscience.”
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/755967178285907968
And while we’re talking about immigrants (Syrian-Americans) have you talked to any Honduran-Americans who came here as a result of the coup that overthrew a democratically elected president that Hillary’s State Department decided to ignore to protect the interests of Honduras’ business elite?
There ought to still be a few of those kids she wanted to send back who managed to stay. They’d be 7 years older now and capable of sharing their opinions. How many if them have you talked to? Any conversations with indigenous women who supported Berta Cáceres?
I wonder how they feel about Hillary’s candidacy.
“have you talked to any Honduran American…?
No, but I have talked to Iraqi American who hates her for voting for the war in 2002. I am still talking to Iraqis who don’t like the US.
What’s your point?
Syrian Americans who will vote for Clinton believe she is an angel?
Muslims who support Hillary do not know US has supported the most violent Muslim dictators?
Most Afghans have supported Obama Clinton policies in their country. Does it mean most Afghans are not aware that the US has committed atrocities around the world?
Tell us what we don’t know and please provide us with a better alternative.
Actually, remember the Michigan primary? Remember how polls had Hillary leading and Sanders actually won? Guess which religious or ethnic minorities helped get him there? (I think it was The Intercept that reported this story…)
I lived in Sweden back in the 80s way to socialists for US but seems to work for them fine. Life in US now WAY to plutocratic . A search for a moderate social democracy would not be a bad call.
Too many greedy fingers in the healthcare pie demands single payer. A National scholarship program were you paid a percent of your increased wedges associated with higher education off the top tax deducible in conjunction with lowering tuition rates could work. Lift the cap on social security and lower the rate for low income.
Most of all move from profit motivated consumer capitalism to conservation motivated for profit capitalism. Finial embrace population control and world’s peoples well being as the road to national security. Could be done cheaper and better than what we got.
the underlying issue preventing that from happening is racism because too many americans do not want equal sharing because they want to get ahead to get away to separate.
i see it like, the doctor’s waiting room situation.
Some will have less some more. Some what less some more. Pure communism allows to little for human nature, pure capitalism why to much. Still none should be without dignity and shelter, healthcare and education and safety, all balanced to natural resources sustained. My personal needed are simple my professional needs to develop cancer treatments more ambitious.
We are so idiotic here in the US. We always have to explain away everything that is common sense in much of Europe and our contemporary nations.
First of all we do not live in a democratic society as long as lobbysits write the laws and as long as the compromise always favors the corporate interests.
Fact is we could have state funded healthcare, education up through college etc and these would be net stimulus spending for the government as long as the service is provided at cost and responsibly. Part of our problem is that we spend more per capita on almost every program from education to healthcare, medicines, etc. But we see less of a return on that investment because some corporate interest has their hands in these services skimming as much as they can off the top and speculating on those returns. This is a hyperinflation cycle of the detrimental kind. So each year the cycle reinforces itself and we often have to spend more money for less of a return.
Neoliberalism is the marrying of the public and private sector. Ideally these two sectors run on different assumptions- both are monetary systems but one is ideally run at cost, well funded, but responsible and AT COST. If this is the case and if there are public options for healthcare, education etc then this sector acts as a price basis, and quality basis, and passive price control on medicines, healthcare, education, etc.
But what we have now is basically “for profit” policing, prisons, education is going that way, state funded healthcare that is subpar to most nations when you consider money spent and quality of services, etc.
What is realistic or not in terms of our legislation and our government should not be determined by these two corporatism parties. That’s why we need approval vote. Or rank vote but an alternate vote would turn this system on its head and it would be harder to vote stack and buy both sides because there would be many sides. These alternate voting systems are much more representative of the population and enable many parties to be legitimized.
Accepting this current system is madness really because the fact of the matter is that we don’t necessarily have a lot of time to deal with the problems due to climate change that we will face soon, and there is a lot that we could build that would be PRICELESS – we have to stop thinking in terms of the narratives of the corporatists and think of ways to bring about a balance between public sector and the private sector in order to build sustainable systems and infrastructure. It’s time to kill the parasite as Michael Hudson would say.
HAHA… YEP IT’S OFFICIAL TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE DEPLORABLE AND AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE SUPER PREDATORS LATINOS ARE TACO BOWLS AND NOW SHE IS ATTACKING BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTERS !!! NOPE SHE DIDN’T MISS ANYONE … THE KKK HAS FULLY COME OUT !!!!
…and it’s yeeewww…
“The NET prosperity of SCANDINAVIA , efficiencies and returns on productity including values and efficiences of shared ownership of public resources, is probably 9X’s that of the US.”
Scandinavia also has an impeccable health care system you should use.
Population: US 300 Mio. Scandinavia 27 Mio. (Roughly Texas population). Normally when analyzing Scandinavia we should take Norway out since it has an unfair advantage thanks to its huge amount of oil and natural gas in relation to its size. So, without Norway that gives you a total population of 22 Mio. That is approximately the total population of US students (21 Mio.)
That means Scadinavia has fewer mouth to feed, fewer patients to take care of, fewer students to subsidize.
And FREE is not really an accurate word. The governments raise taxes and pays for those services. So, whenever a politician tells you he will give you free stuffs, you need to ask him how much it will cost the government and how much you will have to pay in taxes to finance it because unless you live in Qatar or the UAE then it is not really free for you. Example: in Sweden free education means the governments pays the TUITION. Students are responsible for fees, rents….which are extremely high. At the end more Swedish students graduate with debts than their US counterparts.
Often you can look at costs per capita and rates this basically puts population size out of the picture. It’s still an issue but not near as much as people like to use it to explain away everything. Whenever the question is raised about better infrastructure etc people are told that we have too many people here or more people than these nations that do so well, but oftentimes those nations spend less per capita on every single infrastructure program than we already spend on the same programs- the difference is that they get a lot more from their taxes because most of our public sector systems have some corporate interest involved trying to take as much “profit” as they can out of that system- what it amounts to is a state funded hyper inflation cycle so the US spends more for pharma, healthcare, education etc than most nations do per person and yet we see less bang for the buck because of the extraction techniques that seek to provide as little in the way of goods and services as possible in order to skim as much off the top as possible. This system is reinforced by lobbying which is basically legalized bribery, and these folks are who is really in control of the US legislative policies for the most part from local to state to the federal level.
“Often you can look at costs per capita and rates this basically puts population size out of the picture”
NO IT DOES NOT.
Norway population: 5.2Mio
US Population: 325 Mio
Healthcare expenditure per capita: OECD Stats 2013
Norway: 6177 usd
USA: 9523 usd
While Norway population is 98% less than that of the US, its healthcare expenditure per capita is only 35% less than that of the US. That’s if you consider the effect of inflation. Without that effect Norway and the US are roughly neck and neck when it comes to healthcare expenditure per capita. That means if you want to reach the high level of healthcare services Norwegian benefit then you will have to spend more money than Norway holding everything else equal. So, whenever a politician tells you he wants the US healthcare system to be similar to the one in Norway you must find out how much it will cost and ask him how he will pay for it.
You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Do you even understand what per capita means?
i have friends who are doctors. They tell me that health care professionals outside the US seek to come to the US because they get paid a lot more in the US than they do in europe and britain.
it’s all about the doctor’s waiting room.
NO! We didn’t have a clue that health care, education, etc. was paid for out of taxes…sorta like RWNJ Americans who figure thar war and the armed forces are paid for with manna from heaven.
“That means Scadinavia has fewer mouth to feed, fewer patients to take care of, fewer students to subsidize.”
They also have fewer people paying into the system. It’s called economies of scale. There is no reason we shouldn’t be able to scale the successful programs used in other countries up to our size, except that we lack the political will to do so. The larger population of the US is irrelevant.
“FREE is not really an accurate word. The governments raise taxes and pays for those services”
This is obvious. The point is to remove the profit motive for industries like education and healthcare, since we can all agree these are essential to the public welfare. There are plenty of working examples that show government run healthcare is cheaper than our own and produces better outcomes. We already provide public education up until age 18, why not extend it a few years for the greater good? The economic return on bettering the education system would more than make up for the down payment. Those who like the current pay (borrow) to play higher education system should be philosophically consistent and advocate privatizing the entire K through 12 system, with tuition required.
freegovernment paysSHARED OWNERSHIP > SHARED COST = EQUALITY
some day we will die
life recycles
what do we want to come back to?
The NET prosperity of SCANDINAVIA , efficiencies and returns on productity including values and efficiences of shared ownership of public resources, is probably 9X’s that of the US.
Imbeciles and thieves like to slice and dice reality using their vague-o-matic to offer bits and pieces as if they were accounting for the entire footprint of benefits and efficiencies of shared ownership. But imbeciles cannot even compete without stealing and rationalising their theft. The imbeciles game is to pay and promote worshippers like Hellery by getting her to say that by working hard you have a *shot* at the middle class. A shot? What, earning by your hard labor doesnt entitle you to a near 100% return on your productivity?
Doesnt take 30 years to build your own home. You are being robbed as i speak.
After reading what the editorial said I listened to the Clinton clips. They are not “hacked”, obviously, since you can’t hack a phone call. They are simply recordings.
I was expecting to be appalled. But she actually sounded quite reasonable. If any of you are expecting the Legitimate Media to pick up the story about how she was somehow “exposed” by this so-called hack, I think you will be disappointed. There is absolutely nothing here.
Damn, Hillary. I guess you didnt have that “Shoot for the stars cause you might land on the moon” poster in your 1st grade classroom.
+1
No Surprise Here:
The Frontier Outpost News:
Is anyone surprised by this corruption? When FBI Director James Comey said that the organization would not be seeking to bring charges against Hillary Clinton over her illegal email server, anyone paying attention knew there was a deep level of corruption. Now, it’s been made clear. James Comey received millions of dollars from the corrupt Clinton Foundation, and his brother’s law firm also does the Clinton’s taxes as well as Mark Cuban’s.
According to a letter sent by 200 Republicans who stated Clinton “clearly placed our nation’s secrets in peril,” Comey was asked why he would not bring charges against her. “No one is above the law, and the American people deserve a more robust explanation for your decision to not recommend criminal charges.”
Reality Check…. >>> “clearly placed our nation’s secrets in peril <<<
Reality: There are no secrets except those that they keep from us slaves.
The "movers and shakers" own this entire planet lock-stock-and-barrel. They all know what's going on. Including the Russians and Chinese. There are no secrets.
Everything is a secret to YOU…. not to them. Sorta like Ed Snowden stuff. "They" are pissed off cuz he actually came from "the inside" and said it on the record. "They" are only concerned because the system was exposed for what it really is — 1984 on steroids.
But, is anyone the 'general public' REALLY pissed off? ONLY A FEW WHO REALLY COMPREHEND IT.
People can't handle the truth; bottom line. Most will be like the Jews under Hitler — they'll walk right into a "shower" without even whimpering… until they have that "Oh Shit!" moment. TOO LATE!
The Frontier Outpost News:
Is anyone surprised by this corruption? When FBI Director James Comey said that the organization would not be seeking to bring charges against Hillary Clinton over her illegal email server, anyone paying attention knew there was a deep level of corruption. Now, it’s been made clear. James Comey received millions of dollars from the corrupt Clinton Foundation, and his brother’s law firm also does the Clinton’s taxes as well as Mark Cuban’s.
According to a letter sent by 200 Republicans who stated Clinton “clearly placed our nation’s secrets in peril,” Comey was asked why he would not bring charges against her. “No one is above the law, and the American people deserve a more robust explanation for your decision to not recommend criminal charges.”
I like how they start it after she talked about them being basement dwellers.
Way to aim for the bottom. No, not just the bottom, I take it back. We’re aiming for that soggy dog turd that’s been left in the yard to rot, rained on for 2 weeks and sort of dissolved into the ground.
Clinton politics; gotta love it!
And what the hell is “children of the recession”? I was a “child” during her husband’s stint in office, where *she* supposedly got all of this experience people tout. I graduated high school while her husband was in office. I earned my degree while her husband was in office. And it’s because of her husband that my degree is worthless, career was outsourced and I’ve never made more than 30k a year in my life. I wasn’t born during the recession her husband caused, I was trying to earn a living in the recession her husband caused; big difference.
No, bitch. We know who and what you are. Trust me, it’s crystal clear.
Trump should sign you up to do some campaign ads. This is great stuff!
Hellary clinton wants to sign up the entire country for the next big robbery using the TPP for her band of gold sacking thugs. Appatently their targets also including “sacking” asian countries as well.
So which demodog laid the turd, hellary or one of her gold sacking friend. Say, she is a gold sacker aint she? Maybe you know better, who sucks more, her or the TPP?
https://theintercept.com/2016/08/26/clinton-foundation-spin/
It’s all true.Nafta,Cafta,the WTO and globalization have destroyed the American dream for most of US,young and old.
This tape reminds me of the Obomba Austin Goolsby? tape where he said he wouldn’t do the public option.(pre election)
The only reason Obomba was elected the first and second time was his opponents abjectness.
No way he has an approval rating of 58?%.
How would that be possible with all the foreign policy disasters,the failure of Obombacare,his terrible assaults on the peoples right to choose(whom they wish to vote for),his lack of Constitutional homage,and his terrible SC choice,that Garland loser,Ass Carter as DS,and his feckless approach to being CinC ,where underlings set policy(Or not,the stupid shite could be his own idea,but the appearances count).
And the economy is shite also,he hasn’t once had 300,000 job creation,the amount needed to keep up with pop growth,since possibly?stimulus days.What was it a few months ago,38,000 jobs?Sprinkled in with summer or holiday help temp months?
What a colossal fraud.
Don’t know how to break it to Hillary but I was a Sanders supporter and:
Am not new to politics- am retired
Am not a child of the Great Recession (actually I’m a parent who saw half of our retirement savings tank)
Do not live in my parent’s basement, but own my home (nor do my children live in my basement)
Have an advanced degree
But on one thing Hillary and I agree:
I don’t see much of a future for this country (or my children, or the children of my younger friends, who are young enough to be my grandchildren.)
you are correct – no future.
the wallstreet rothschild currency scheme requires “growth” because only their scheming growth allows one to pass the debt – which when slows, bothers them. Trouble is, as wicked as their scheme is, endless growth comes at an increasing price, like overpopulation, climate change, resource devastation, mounting waste, and ruin generally.
you are correct – no “good” future, unless we change the currency system and reduce the population – 1 child per family. As it is, we are currently burning 50% more resources than the planet can replenish. That spells DOOM. We have 2 choices, begin now and suffer much pain, or, wait until panic time which by then will be too late for the turnaround.
change the currency and limit family size or certain doom. ps- we will be out of fish by 2045.
Would you like:
1) A guaranteed job? Never get fired?
2) Free housing?
3) Free healthcare?
4) Free childcare?
5) Free transportation?
6) Free education?
7) Free entertainment?
8) Free clothing?
9) Free food?
Would you like to come work for me on my brand new federally funded plantation?
Slavery on a State-owned Farm awaits you.
Sing it, brother! Scandinavia is a well-known hellhole.
Ha!
What PLANET do you live on??? You obviously NOW NOTHING about Scandanavian countries!!!!! PATHETIC—even for the typical American without a passport
PATHETIC—even for the typical American without a passport
My husband is from the Czech Republic. Been there many times with him, as well as various other places around the world. His parents weren’t well- off. The sum total of their assets after living under soviet rule was their house and the property it was located on.
His mother had chronic health problems. A series of strokes and chronic leukemia had her in and out of hospitals most of the time I knew her prior to her death. Had they been subject to our “exceptional” health care regime during that time, they would have lost their house and been living on the streets, stripped of what little they’d managed to scrape together living as non-communist party members.
Living under the Soviets was abhorrent to them. But the one thing they praised was a system that still allowed them to get the health care they needed without being further impoverished.
Perhaps you can share your stories about people you know who have been screwed by the Scandinavian health care systems now.
After the revolution, we’re gonna feed Truth Seeker and provide her with decent housing and medical care, whether she likes it or not.
Imagine the pain and suffering this will cause.
Ayn Rand’s Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are hardcore.
Rand witnessed the ruthlessness of communism and how it came about. Likewise, Leo Tolstoy wrote, “The Slavery of Our Time” in 1907… before the Bolsheviks took over.
Enlightening.
If you really wanna know how the world works, Ayn Rand said it through the character of Francisco d’Anconia in Atlas Shrugged. Read Francisco’s words when he “went ballistic” at the social party… can’t remember the chapter.
It says it all.
(FYI, Francisco d’Anconia was a personification of something we actually know in American History: Anaconda Copper and Amalgamated Copper. Do you know who they are?)
Yeah, didn’t she write Song of Norway? That really got at the Stalinist nightmare, but she should have also exposed Sweden!
Rand was pretty blunt about stuff.
Marx’s Communist Manifesto is nothing more than “slavery” repackaged and resold under a new name.
Sorta like, “How to Build A Better Toothbrush”…. do you really think Oral-B with a DuraCell battery in the handle really cleans any better?
NO. It doesn’t. But, they did con you into buying a battery, too.
P.S… Mona….
“Collectivism” is a new name for the 3/5’s clause of Article 1 in the US Constitution.
3/5s were all slaves and non-citizens…. except Indians.
>>> After the revolution, we’re gonna feed Truth Seeker and provide her with decent housing and medical care, whether she likes it or not.
<<<
Hmmmm…. I'll like that.
Why?
I'll be holding the whip to make sure you properly fertilize my food crops…. and build my house correctly.
When you can't work on my house anymore; or, cannot grow anymore food because you are not meeting your daily quota (to provide enough for yourself, too), …
I'll kill you and use you as fertilizer instead of agri chemicals.
I was that 14 year old that read Atlas Shrugged. Fortunately, I read Rand/Pleikoff’s commentaries and realized her unbelievable characters were stereotypes. Her understanding of the looter class is spot on.
Except, you know, GET FUCKING PAID FOR IT. Learn history before you sound like an asshole next time.
No you don’t.
You get little pieces of paper. Stamped, “Federal Reserve Note” (a “note” is debt… and it’s nonredeemable.
When the US Govt Plantation fails, the paper is as worthless as a Confederate States Dollar.
It’s the same thing as “company script.” Ever heard of the “Coal Miner’s Daughter” of a mining company town?
You couldn’t leave the mine with anything more than the clothes on your back.
Ever.
Sad but true.
Read Atlas Shrugged. Francisco d’Anconia.
correction: company scrip (not script)
1) A guaranteed job? YES. Never get DEPRIVED OF LIFE SUPPORT? YES.
2) Oligopoly priced housing?
3) Oligopoly priced healthcare?
4) Oligopoly priced childcare?
5) Oligopoly priced transportation?
6) Oligopoly priced education?
7) Oligopoly priced entertainment?
8) Oligopoly priced clothing?
9) Oligopoly priced food?
FREE is what God has provided.
SLAVERY is what privateers do by owning life support resources and using their power to rob populations and force people to compete to eat, what God provided.
STUPID is what thieves are who use power to rob others because they are too stupid to create a system that works good.
Too many imbeciles in postitions of power makes the world go drowned.
Guaranteed job?… Take away government and move into the wilderness. Done.
House… build your own.
healthcare… eat healthy and learn how to take care of yourself.
childcare… same… birth it and take care of it.
transportation … horse, camel, ox, etc.
entertainment… watch the stars and the grass grow
clothing…. kill it (fur) or weave it
education… figuring things out for yourself is the only freedom anyone really has.
SLAVERY is when you don’t have a choice. You are forced to earn money via a middle man attack. You can’t even build your own shack today unless it has a 30 year slave mortgage on it.
STUPID is what people let OTHER people do to them.
Psychopaths rule the world. Get rid of the psychopaths and the world would be a relatively happy place.
i understand your point, you are quite correct, but… i wanted to emphasize those entitlements bestowed upon us by our creator insofar as we also have the free will in a cooperative fashion to be comfortable and pass on and inherit earned comforts without being deprived by the wallstreet predatory owner’s club.
Working for enough comfort to enjoy much time and life is the reason for living – not working for someone else’s enrichment – which is a sin.
The trap that wallstreet has perpetrated upon the US is that their currency game is a dead end and as such, places people (older) who have created their comfort and leisure become targets by the poor and deprived when the wallstreet growth con game hits the brick wall as it is about to.
It is simple then for people with a common understanding of what is good and what works to simply write a law, declare it the law of the common and the good, and charge wallstreet and their dastardly colony of rats to be criminals in the eyes of the people. Not rocket science and IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BY LEAVING SUCH MATTERS TO THE CURRENT COLONY OF SOLD OUT POLITICAL WHORES.
>>> Not rocket science and IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BY LEAVING SUCH MATTERS TO THE CURRENT COLONY OF SOLD OUT POLITICAL WHORES.< <<
Pedinska said, "Thinning the herd"….
What I propose is to thin the herd of psychopaths.
Instead of the psychopaths thinning the rest of us because they have more slaves than they can manage.
You'd be surprised to know how many slaves could survive in the wilderness; versus how many psychopaths would starve in the wilderness.
Don't be fooled by the psycho talking heads on TV. (Sorta like the John Carpenter movie, "They Live."
I think you are dramatizing for effect a bit here, no? None of the -isms which represent human attempts at economics or politics is workable in pure form and all of them have suffered from corruption in application, because, humans. Wrt your individual points:
Guaranteed job?… Take away government and move into the wilderness. Done.
How do we divvy up said wilderness for 300+ million people? Who gets which parcels? Are we prepared to let people die when they suddenly realize they don’t have the skills for this type of living?
House… build your own.
This idea has always intrigued me. My husband and I have spent years looking at ideas revolving around this concept and realized quickly that without modern tools – even basic and simple ones – this would be nearly impossible for the vast majority to achieve, though we would likely manage some basic protection, the first winter or two – because, you know, you have to spend time on other things like foraging for food – would be a true bitch.
healthcare… eat healthy and learn how to take care of yourself.
Well, I grow a good portion of my own vegetables, preserving and drying them for the winter, and raise rabbits for fertilizer and food, so we’re part of the way there. It does take significant time away from other tasks. And there was also the time I needed a spine surgeon when I had a disc disintegrate. I’m thankful he wasn’t still trying to figure it out for himself….and me.
childcare… same… birth it and take care of it.
Are you male? Referencing children as “it” is, um, disturbing. Setting that aside, what would you do when your wife dies in childbirth because there is no physician (still educating themselves) or mid-wife (too busy building homes, taking care of their own children and gardens)?
transportation … horse, camel, ox, etc.
I could get jiggy with that. Always loved riding horses, but then, in addition to building your own home, growing, harvesting and preserving all your own food, you’ll also have to lay in sufficient provenance for your large animals. So, more shelter to build, for animals and their food. But maybe you’re lucky and your piece of wilderness has large, easily accessible caves…as well as sufficient arable land cleared of trees…
clothing…. kill it (fur) or weave it
I have rabbits. We’ve looked into this. On the internet, by the way, which would, presumably, go away in your version of the world. Simple curing takes a decent amount of non-iodized salt, denatured alcohol some detergent and oil (one method, I’m sure there are others). Should be no problem to find in large quantities. Just trade with your neighbors… Or go the native route, and chew it with however many teeth you still have left when professional dental care disappears, amiright?
Ok, so, I’m being a little facetious myself to prove a point. We can’t just reset an entire system. That’s not how things work, barring natural and/or human-created disasters, because we are social creatures and we simply do better when we can rely on each other for help with tasks that are beyond our own individual abilities. Can such events happen? Absolutely. They happen all over the world on a daily basis. Would we be better off if we were prepared and maintained some of the skill sets necessary to do what you lay out? Again, absolutely.
However, barring some major re-education – however you might want to achieve it – what you are proposing as a “solution” would entail a massive thinning of the herd through death by deprivation and ignorance. Now, maybe that’s ok with you (you did reference children as “it”s), and maybe you won’t mind if/when you and yours are the ones whose thread gets cut in a way your skill set doesn’t quite cover. But that sort of reaping would severely limit everyone’s possibilities for survival. Not to mention the pool of humans to choose from for procreative purposes (harder to find a mate when your scattered about the wilderness, and too busy trying to build shelter, find food and clean water), so the whole “stealing women from the other tribe” thing will be off the charts (something most women I know would give serious side-eye to and which women like me would probably object to in organized and fatal ways, or did you think only men would be armed and dangerous?).
Psychopaths rule the world. Get rid of the psychopaths and the world would be a relatively happy place.
I agree wholeheartedly with that. I have read that there are a significant number of people who live pretty much as you describe in federal lands and forests in places like Colorado. Are you considering making the move? I would be interested in knowing your plans for making that work out for yourself and your family. Maybe you could, after a year or two, slink back into whatever public library still exists and send off a missive to the rest of us via whatever primitive mode of the internet still survives, so we could judge for ourselves whether or not we want to join you in your paradise.
Look forward to hearing from you.
>>> I think you are dramatizing for effect a bit here, no? None of the -isms which represent human attempts at economics or politics is workable in pure form and all of them have suffered from corruption in application, because, humans<<
RE: Dramatizing….??? Yes and No. Yes in the sense to illustrate just how "gone" we are — as totally disconnected slaves. We are even disinherited, so to speak. "Title" to the property that we do have, if any, lasts as long as the "modern" paper or plastic currency we have. It only lasts as long as the State of Slavery exists.
Americans, especially, and other countries as well have been reduced to slavery whether we want to admit it or not.
There is no reason for "homeless shelters" other than the fact that slavery, does, IN FACT exist.
The rest of my post was also for illustration. The point… the common thread thru almost all of them is singular: We totally depend on pieces of "paper" (e.g. contract, mortgage, insurance policy, paper currency, blah blah blah) that require our signature and a Term of Service — whether for Years; or, Life.
These pieces of paper are the instruments of slavery. (The big problem, as I illustrated very simply, will take forever to cover each one so I will not digress.)
>>> Psychopaths rule the world. Get rid of the psychopaths and the world would be a relatively happy place.
I agree wholeheartedly with that. <<<
How do you identify them??? EASY!!! The psychopaths are the one's who sell little pieces of paper for a living.
>>> How do we divvy up said wilderness for 300+ million people? Who gets which parcels? Are we prepared to let people die when they suddenly realize they don’t have the skills for this type of living? <<<
As of March 2012, out of the 2.27 billion acres in the country, about 28% of the total was owned by the Federal government according to the Interior Department.[3]
This does not include property owned by the individual states.
How do you divvy??? Oklahoma Land Run???? Who knows?
I didn't say the problem was easy to solve because it took 4 generations to get here over the last 100 years.
Regardless, the first step is to recognize the problem to begin with.
#1 Psychopaths rule the country. All Antebellum Period Slave traders/owners were psychopaths.
#2 Psychos run the rest of the world. They are psychos because they ARE incompetent to build their own house or boil their own egg. I can give examples — by name.
the people who pull the strings that rule the country are sociopaths. They have a serious mental disorder bordering on psychosis. They would be control freaks living in a state of paranoia. Yet because the economy rules the day, these nutjobs are worshipped by their whores and rulemakers.
This is why they want to hide the “names” of donors because upon examination the donors would be named as the candidates behind the candidates – and that is how it must be stated and printed
We are on the same page, brother.
Psychopaths rule…. sociopaths surround the psychopaths (minions)… over everyone else.
What does a psychopath look like, in a quasi-spiritual/physical sense:
Take a look: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F94%2F2e%2Fca%2F942ecad445b5f549d18b9e5c5b5af814.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fkuushamanka%2Fgoddesses-kali-cult-dharmapala-tantra%2F&docid=G4LRQ47YAOdF_M&tbnid=rF7btq78UgKKFM%3A&w=2240&h=1579&bih=794&biw=1536&ved=0ahUKEwjOmMColL3PAhXJTCYKHZrwBPcQMwhSKCowKg&iact=mrc&uact=8
They psychopath is top, front and center… the companion sociopaths (or less ‘powerful’ psychopath wannabees are on the left and the right)…. and the victims include everyone else.
This is REAL art that illustrates the powers-that-be — both in that time period; and, today.
The wallstreet psychosociopaths are so absorbed in their criminal schemes and so immune to recourse by the people, that their minds have formed a self-righteous framework which provided them a virtual reality that when collapses happen, they will be at the top of the pyramid whilst everyone else can go to hell – the one they created.
The insanity of wallstreet will destroy pretty much everything. Hellary is their pick to lead these crazy imbeciles to hellary’s weapons and wargames which they falsely conclude they are also immune to. And that’s where their own arrogance betrays their twisted logic – their belief that everyone else can lose but them.
It’s not just Wall Street, my friend.
“Data” is the battleground. “The Cloud”…
The All Knowing spy grid. It drives everything else. Absolute Control of the Body Politic just like the plantation owners vs the slaves on the plantation(s). Control over interslave communication, food, shelter, medium of exchange, social mobility, and even breeding.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rush/2112.html
Read the lyrics. Written in ~1975.
They got it right.
>>> However, barring some major re-education – however you might want to achieve it – what you are proposing as a “solution” would entail a massive thinning of the herd through death by deprivation and ignorance. <<<
I can give you an example of the most notorious welfare recipients on the planet: The British Crown.
Slaves build all of the castles and palaces so that the psychopath(s) could rule from them.
Yet the news media makes you think that it's the little black/white/yellow/green trash person on the other side of town who is the problem.
Psychos run the world … and they live in palaces that they can neither build or maintain by themselves. And, they build them on hurricane beachfronts so that they can sell little pieces of paper that profits them when a hurricane blows their own house into the sand.
>>> Psychopaths rule the world. Get rid of the psychopaths and the world would be a relatively happy place.
I agree wholeheartedly with that. I have read that there are a significant number of people who live pretty much as you describe in federal lands and forests in places like Colorado. Are you considering making the move? I would be interested in knowing your plans for making that work out for yourself and your family. Maybe you could, after a year or two, slink back into whatever public library still exists and send off a missive to the rest of us via whatever primitive mode of the internet still survives, so we could judge for ourselves whether or not we want to join you in your paradise.
Look forward to hearing from you. <<<
Here's a yuppie's experience…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau
On Walden Pond…
Want to know how it's *supposed* to be done? Visit a midwestern farmer or an Amish community.
One last question, what would you do with the old folks and disabled in your scenario? Put them out for the wolves? Or go the soylent route (keeping in mind that adequate sources of protein may be scarce or difficult to accrue in the bit of the wilderness you might land)?
Just wondering….because in your scenario they are your best repositories of information.
People, attempting rational argument with Truth Seeker is like trying the same with Craig or Nate — ain’t gonna work.
I think I pulled the right quote at the top of this sub-thread:
We should pay attention to Truth Seeker after s/he has ventured bravely into the northern Quebec forest for the winter, or the Cabeza Prieta for a summer.
As for the old folks and disabled, the important question is what s/he would do when s/he ends up in one of those categories. We know what Rand did.
>>> We should pay attention to Truth Seeker after s/he has ventured bravely into the northern Quebec forest for the winter, or the Cabeza Prieta for a summer. <<<
Have you ever been on a survival mission in a desert, into the Alaskan Wilderness, or into the Yukon Territory? Even, maybe, a combat zone?
I don't think Doug is qualified to say anything at this point. The best you've probably done is Yellowstone Park…. and then, only, maybe.
>>> Pedinska ? Truth Seeker
Oct. 2 2016, 9:49 a.m.
One last question, what would you do with the old folks and disabled in your scenario? Put them out for the wolves? Or go the soylent route (keeping in mind that adequate sources of protein may be scarce or difficult to accrue in the bit of the wilderness you might land)?
Just wondering….because in your scenario they are your best repositories of information. <<<
Old people are taken care of by their children (like millions of years before the 20th century). Social Security, for example, is based on the same principle (except for homosexuals). However, Social Security empowers psychopaths and my neighbor as well to enslave me and my children. WITHOUT CONSENT.
NO CONSENT == INVOLUNTARY == Slavery.
Never read Rand,as Trotskyite?zionist women leave me frigid,(read LOR many times),but do you actually believe that she would move into the wilderness(no not the Levant),by ox camel horse etc.,build her own home in it,give birth unattended,with no healthcare, weave growth and kill fauna,and sew and wear it?
Nah.
Trust me; Ran was no Trotskyite….More like “ANTI-TROT”…
She understood the system… she was very perceptive as it happened all around her.
Canadian here. I lean pretty far to the left of the political spectrum, and I can’t for the life of me see what is such a big deal about this.
So she is a centrist. Better than a far, far rightish, no? Centrists are people who can get shit done. It’s not always what you might want, but it’s better than the far right nightmare you are facing.
And does not the far left want free college and healthcare? What exactly did she say here that is so bad? Do you feel dismissed by the whole “whatever that means?” Come on.
Was it the basement comment? What was bad about this exactly? She is clearly not calling them lazy. If anything she is saying she acknowledges the challenges today’s young people are facing and why young people feel cynical about the economy. And she says that it’s important for them to dream big.
Cripes guys. Don’t blow this. Trump is the biggest danger your country has faced in generations. Clinton isn’t great, but she’s solid. To not vote for her because of these comments would just be plain stupid. That’s why Trump has seized upon these comments, because he is trying to con you into giving up on the Democrats.
Vote for Clinton. Support Sanders, and for crying out loud stick with pushing the progressive agenda at every single election, whether it’s federal, state, or local.
To not vote for her because of these comments would just be plain stupid.
Every single person I know, including myself, who is not planning on voting for Clinton isn’t doing so because of these recently released comments – that is a strawman of your own creation – but rather because of the demonstrable harm her own actions and the policies she has supported, have done to our society and others around the globe.
Why is that so hard for people to wrap their heads around? You can apply the sort of reductionism and oversimplification to it – as you just did – as much as you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that there are facts supporting our objections. Serious ones.
Vote for Clinton. Support Sanders, and for crying out loud stick with pushing the progressive agenda at every single election, whether it’s federal, state, or local.
We have and do. But there are barriers at every single level to doing what people actually want. If you were paying attention, you saw them in excruciating detail during the democratic presidential primary and, if you are paying attention to what is still happening to third party candidates, then you are looking them in the eye right now.
To just wave your tiny hands and minimize all of that isn’t enough for many of us. It’s working less and less with the general population as well. If the rise of alternatives on both the right and left this election didn’t teach you that, well there’s just no hope for you. But the rest of us aren’t going down quite so easily any more.
Thank-you for expressing it so well. :-)
Sure free college, free health care, free food, free cell phone, free housing, free welfare checks. I can see why we are broke. If they do free college do I get my money back Hilary? Soon its tell you where to work and how many kids you can and cant have. Democrats???
I love how moderates always accuses leftists of being cynical, then this:
And on the other side, there’s just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free healthcare, that what we’ve done hasn’t gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know, go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means, and half the people don’t know what that means, but it’s something that they deeply feel.
They see their cynicism as them being realistic, and not ‘naive’, and then just ignore the fact that all of this is completely possible and realistic and fall back to ‘whatever that means’. Being willingly ignorant does not make one wise.
Correction: Of course leftists are cynical. Further down I should also have said ‘see their pessimism as being realistic’. Them confusing pessimism for wisdom.
Lesson learned: Being a leftist is to be an optimistic cynic. To be moderate is to be a defeatist pessimist.
This is good Neil B.
What passes for “moderate” in American politics is the most cynical of all, especially in the most useful part of the definition: “concerned only with one’s own interests.” Calling other people “cynical” for daring to notice the self-interest is brilliantly cynical in itself.
“Clinton Sees Herself Occupying ‘Center-Left to Center-Right’”
And you have the conservative and conservaDem media, and Bernie and Trump pushing and pulling more and more sheeple into her range. A neocons orchestrated election. Globalization marches on.
Bernie Sanders? Come, now.
Bernie Sanders? Come, now.
Yes, Bernie. When he caved and endorsed her and started campaigning for her, that is exactly the role he was/is playing. It’s basically the scene that Bruce Dixon laid out back in May of 2015 and that Doug Salzman warned us of from the get-go.
http://blackagendareport.com/bernie-sanders-sheepdog-4-hillary
Now, there are some mitigating factors. Some of us felt that supporting Bernie in hopes of pulling dems to the left was worthwhile in the primaries. Hard to assess the degree to which that succeeded or, imho, failed at the moment. Won’t know until Clinton wins and starts governing, but I’m not holding my breath.
There’s also the fact that a significant number of people have refused to follow him in this betrayal and are planning on voting either third party or abstaining from casting a vote for President. But there ARE some people who have been swayed by Sanders and Warren and their “reluctant” endorsements, poking and prodding.
It sucks YUGE donkey dicks but it’s factually true.
brave use of the word “sheeple,” David, clearly you one of them ornery sheeple
Lady MacHillary is as evil as they come and as owned and controlled as by the real elites as a corporate toad can be. Wonder why the elites hate Trump? Like him, they pay little or no tax; Trump is threatening them with 15%; WOW! How many Americans know that the lowest paid among them pay 17% payroll tax; you read that right, 17%. I think Romney claimed 13%; Trump is no doubt at or close to zero like GE, Exxon Mobile, Apple and on and on. Trillions hidden in the “offshore system” and onshore like Wilmington De where hundreds of thousands of corporation’s are in ONE building. Europeans are ruled by crooked elites too but at least they get some social services back; the USA, not so much unless you consider the death machines of the military. If Trump is better (how did protecting your own get to be a bad word?) good, he would not be the first upper class person who did it, witness FDR. If he is worse, good accelerate the revolution as the working class can’t take it much worse. Hillary is just “more of the same”; she and the party screwed Bernie and she and the party will screw you; just like the so called Union leaders endorsing her, no Bernie. American workers really have no one on their side.
PREACH!!!
What you said is absolutely true:
Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party will screw the American people just like they screwed Bernie.
It is incredible how many people are still snowed by the MSM which has brought them 70 years of zionist occupation,Korea,Vietnam,stupid colonial excursions throughout the third world,terror inducing policies which led(one way or the other) to 9-11,Iraq,Libya,Syria,Ukraine,Yemen,Somalia,Sudan and Afghanistan to name some of their clusterf*cks.
And Trump,who promises sanity re our foreign policy,is vilified and knuckleheads lap it up.
The new meme;Hillary is not Obomba,she’s less hawkish.sheesh.
I’ve never seen such open disdain for Americans than from this evil twit and the media.Divide and conquer.
Politico conveniently left out the part about her saying she is center left to center right…. whoopsie
Billmon has an informative tweetstorm on this topic.
https://twitter.com/billmon1/status/782283675375394817
This is exactly right. As patronizing as Hillary’s flippant “whatever that means” and her “parents’ basement” comment are, this is worse. Clinton won’t even countenance that opposing her politics may result from a desire for systemic change and not a psychological defect of “mindset.” For Clinton, anyone who falls off a “ladder of opportunity” should, rather than reflect on why they fell, simply find another opportunity, and anyone without the time or resources to find a new opportunities should quietly take solace at having had a chance at success and accept disempowerment.
Rejecting the entrepreneurialist careerism Clinton promotes as a form of politics for a suckers’ game—calling upon workers to prove their worth without taking down the people who systemically benefit from their hardships, all so that the supposed best may lead society—is taken off the table completely. There is an increasingly strong desire for a politics in which people have material security without constantly having their will tested and being told they don’t deserve it when their will doesn’t pass the test, and Hillary Clinton is snidely dismissive of that.
On the one hand she’s been honest in telling us what she can and can not do (or doesn’t want to do), on the other hand she doesn’t understand why we need someone like Sanders and why millennials are living in their parents basements, is not because they love mommy, is because they can’t afford to get out. Universal health care can be accomplished, I don’t know about free college . With this comments she is showing us her age and how disconnected she is from younger generations.
Oh Hillary, why do you make it so hard to like you?
Can’t be bothered to pay attention to what Trump or HRC says, but I trust Mr. Fang earned a paycheck in dutifully describing HRC’s commitment to America’s pragmatic, sensible, torture & mass murder happy Totalitarian Center.
Free stuff. Nothing is free. Someone or something pays for everything. Expecting others to pay for your stuff is embarrassing. Get off your ass, quit looking for free stuff and start working. Going to college guarantees nothing. Take that attitude as you begin your life journey.
Not sure why you’re so angry Mike. Yeah, nothing is free. Unless your corporation gets those “freebies” called subsidies, or you’re an elite who has “freebies” built into tax law or… you’re the CEO of a bank who fosters a work culture in which illegal, unauthorized accounts are created while you rake in millions or… puhleeaze… who are the real parasites in this country?! One class of people has gamed the system to benefit themselves.
People who actually have to work for their money just want a fair shake. Not a two -tiered system: one for the wealthy and another for those who aren’t.
As much as I hate to defend Hillary, your example of banks getting a pass is a joke. If you fail financially, then that means next to nothing to the world at large. If a bank fails…well good luck with the economy is all I have to say.
Those in power are in power for a reason. Either they (or their family) “gamed the system” and worked their ass off to do it. All this crying just because everyone’s daddy wasn’t a millionaire…
>>> Those in power are in power for a reason. Either they (or their family) “gamed the system” and worked their ass off to do it. All this crying just because everyone’s daddy wasn’t a millionaire… <<<
Here's what happened…
Take a look: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F94%2F2e%2Fca%2F942ecad445b5f549d18b9e5c5b5af814.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fkuushamanka%2Fgoddesses-kali-cult-dharmapala-tantra%2F&docid=G4LRQ47YAOdF_M&tbnid=rF7btq78UgKKFM%3A&w=2240&h=1579&bih=794&biw=1536&ved=0ahUKEwjOmMColL3PAhXJTCYKHZrwBPcQMwhSKCowKg&iact=mrc&uact=8
Oh yeah,the banksters turned in all their yachts,planes and automobiles,and are on the unemployment line!
Hillaryous!
I’ve heard your press does better snow job than ours.
The banksters(ladybugs)picnic!
They gambled and we lost.
My God.
THANK YOU Landlocked! I am SO SICK of the poor-bashing when its CORPORATE WELFARE, “privatizing” all public services to For-Profit Corproationsa BLOATED Pentagon/”National Security (SPY) State & TAX-BREAKS for the 1% that’s the REAL “free stuff” that’s CREATED the rillions in national debt while IMPOVERISHING 47 MILLION Americans and making most of the rest of everyday people income-insecure.
I’m committed to one cause and one cause alone – Progressive change! With that in mind, I rebut Hillary Clinton’s “centrist” underpinning of the status-quo. Hillary who has never ceased to feather her own nest. Hillary who excoriated Edward Snowdon as a traitor . . .
On the surface, neither Trump nor Clinton offers anything new. He proposes a failed paradigm of trickle-down business, she, the failed solution of government largess oozing down to the people . Both “solutions” have been tried. Neither work. In the face of this, there seems to be little hope of changing the political system so that it will function more equitably for all, rather than for just a few. Overall, both candidates seem narcissistic and self-serving . . . and yet . . .
The political elites who control our American House of Cards oppose Trump like no candidate has ever been opposed. The plutocrats and elites ranged against him comprise a formidable array: Senators, former Presidents, CEOs of Megacorps, the Lords of Wall Street, the Barons of Technology, former Cabinet Secretaries, former Heads of Government Agencies, Bankers and Financiers, Media Syndicates and the list goes on, of those rich and powerful who intend to stymie him. These are the ones who have sold us short and voted us into never-ending wars. These are the ones who have taken our money and lined their own pockets with it. These are those who claim we are really living in a computer simulation and plan to colonize an airless planet, while ignoring our collapsing infrastructure and the deterioration of our country. Each person should ask themselves: “Why do these dread Trump, with such grim foreboding?” Trump – who often seems more like a caricature in a farce than a serious candidate. They fear Trump because his buffoonery, like some lampooning jester, mocks them and their misrule. Trump threatens the carefully contrived imagery in their carefully contrived edifice of Cards, like some “fool” playing with matches. Trump is a loose cannon and an x-factor. He’s both “mercurial” and “capricious” and while these terms may not define “safe and secure,” they do outline the concept of “change.” And when change comes, who can really tell what form it must take? What these ruling elites fear most is that they will lose control to Trump, who is like a Joker prancing through their House of Cards – a joker in this game which they carefully control. In a card game, when you hold a Joker the outcome always changes. If you’ve been dealt a lousy hand but you hold the Joker, you might just win a hand in their rigged game!
The ONLY way you/we are going to make progress is by OWNING OUR LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEMS. By doing so, you establish the foundation of freedom of choice which is, in reality, to choose to or not to, that is the real question, whether you may or may not and yet keep your free will for any other choice you choose to make or not, without fear of death.
Once you/we OWN life support resources, we are entitle then to earn our comfort and may only experience wealth if so rewarded by the free will of others.
Progress needs a goal, make it so.
Long long ago DT uttered ;I’ll be neutral re Palestine Israel;hence their total opposition to him.
They know an American POTUS with our interests at heart would know it is a paramount objective to make the Israelis live or die on their own sword,not ours.Hence they would make peace,or they had better,for their own sake.
Clinton II’s cautious rate of “accomplishment” is a slim fraction of the ambitious rate of “accomplishment” of corporate dominance and empire.
Hmmmmm……this “leak” actually makes her look good: pragmatic, self-aware, understanding of the political currents driving the campaigns, sympathetic to the economic plight of young people these days, and focused on trying to implement realistic policies that can address these concerns.
Are we sure that this “leak” (and the other recent one concerning her skepticism about Obama’s nuclear modernization plans) isn’t really a faux-leak designed to make her look properly Presidential and attuned to the concerns of all but the most dead-ender margins of the Dem base?
Apart from calling me a basement dweller you mean?
If that’s the worse thing you’re called today, you clearly just logged on.
I wonder why she’s doing so bad with millenials?
When I hear a political creature of the global-finance-industrial capitalist corporatocracy described as “pragmatic,” I load my cannons with grapeshot (wanna get as many associates, minions and hangers-on as possible, with a single fusillade).
Why stop there!? I say Clinton’s a fascist, corporatist, elitist, capitalist, interventionist, militarist, colonialist, centrist, czarist, anti-idealist, sadist, revisionist, post-feminist, monogamist, occultist harpsichordist!!
Bingo.
Pavlovian elitist tripe! Read the whole quote from Hillary, she is not disparaging anyone. She’s explaining why people are upset and she’s explaining why the highest number of youth have had to move back in with their parents… It’s the typical lie perpetrated by the true elite about the Clinton’s. Look at the house where Bill grew up, and compare it to Trump’s or take a look at Lexington MA, Jill Steins “grassroots” and compare it to Hope Arkansas.
Hil has got your backs, I can assure you. If you grew up in poverty, chances are you grew up on Hillary’s health insurance for kids, CHIP. She and Teddy Kennedy pulled this off.
Voting for Jill Stein is like demanding organic strychnine for your suicide. It makes no sense whatsoever. It just sounds good to the Pavlovian elitists and it supports Whole Foods and that’s about it.
Funny, I was thinking about Bill Clinton today while I was writing my original post elsewhere; wondering about where and how he grew up and if he’s ashamed of his past and his family’s poverty. I wondered if that condition isn’t in some way the source of his obvious and deep-seated distain for the working class, which he and his wife have betrayed on so many fronts.
First and foremost, of course, are the millions of jobs they helped send to other countries by way of NAFTA, and–make no mistake–Hillary will continue with a revamped, renamed TTP if elected. No matter what she says, that’s a given.
That’s not to forget the blatant race-baiting Bill used, and Hillary wholeheartedly supported, in the form of racial stereotyping, to scare white America to the polls to vote for Bill in their efforts to keep America safe from young, black “super predators,” in Hillary”s own words.
Also, how sadly ironic that Hillary recognizes that those disaffected students supporting Sanders are children of the “Great Recession,” given she and her husband helped usher in that disaster as champions of unbridled Wall Street greed, and, as even Donald Trump knows, will continue to do so in yet another Clinton presidency.
So, thanks, Jimmy, for your personal assurances that Hillary has my back. She and husband, Bill–the real super predators–had my back once, but only long enough to place a target on it. I’ve moved on, completely devoid of trust in the person I’m absolutely certain doesn’t deserve it.
Jimmy is very likely a paid Hillary hack from Revise the Record. To see him get shellacked below go to this sub-thread.
And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They’re quite aware of what they’re going through
#basementdwellers
https://www.facebook.com/notes/james-rogers-bush/flashback-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-and-the-impossible-america/1196731780383156
HRC: a progressive in her own mind; blowing in the wind…
Our only choice is to elect her, impeach her, get the money out of politics and try again with real change people. I’m not sure those people are politicians yet.
Impeaching Clinton would leave us with a far worse neolib: Kaine. Might want to revise that part of the strategy.
What many millennials don’t seam to get is that the current work situation is a result of poor economic decisions by Hillary.
Millennials don’t want to be baristas… They’re qualified to be, and aspire to hold, much more meaningful and rewarding positions.
Hillary cheated Bernie….and has cheated a generation of young American men and woman.
Exactly when did Hillary Clinton have control of the economic decisions to cause this? (it sounds like a blame placed by Trump!) Get real… Hillary did not cheat Bernie…the outcome was not even close. I’m disappointed in many millennials who see the two choices as equally bad. On what planet? I’m shocked that many do not seem aware of what happened in the 2000 election…or perhaps they don’t care. We are talking about an election which will effect the lives of millennials until they are into their 60s, if not beyond. Please don’t throw away your vote, esp in battleground states….but even in ones that are not: Will Trump and his minions except an electoral defeat having won the popular vote? Trump is no Al Gore.
Hillary may not have been pushing Bill’s ‘Wall Street can regulate it self’ agenda. But she hasn’t said she will try for a new glass-steagall, and she has the guy that wrote CFMA as her CFO. http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34497-the-most-disingenuous-attack-on-bernie-yet
If I could magically undo everything a president did, Reagan would be my first choice with Bill a close second. At least when the GOP presidents plains corporate giveaways Democrats appose it. With Dem Presidents they sail on by without a fight.
Michelle Alexander gives you part of the answer here. That’s almost exclusively focused on the Clitnons vis-a-vis the plight of African-Americans. There’s also NAFTA and financial “regulation.”(And before you say: “But that was Bill,” read the Alexander piece.)
Heywood, she mirrors your comments in the same recording, and states “I think we should all be very understanding of that.” In a private conversation, she’s encouraging empathy of millennials, like she’s listening to/aware of our concerns.
Being “…very understanding of that” in no way implies doing anything about it.
I wonder every four years why people think that candidates to the US presidency can do something good for the 99%. It is not going to happen, never. Clinton same as Obama, the greatest…demagogue of all time, is just another demagogue, nothing new. I hate when she laughs, is like to see Dracula laughing.
CrookdClinton is a sellout living in a serial adulterer’s basement so she can blackmail him with making her Potusa!
This is the result of CrookdClinton 1992 as Potusa– brought the art of DISHONESTY INTO THE DEM PARTY– outdone the Republicans!
CrookdClinton is a DISHONEST DOUBLECROSSER. Even if you do gree with some of the things she may say– as opposed to what others say– very valid, remember 1) saying is not doing, 2) what is the track record of the CrookdClinton 1% actions, 3) will say anything to get votes, 4) even if elected to ONETERM– it does not mean she can get anything done! Trump or Stein or Johnson donot try to please everybody.
Or you will be like the Arkansans left rotting while CrookdClintons have two mansions in NY!
Hint: we can see that a) despite your resume, your record of decision making is pretty damn terrible. b) you are very slow at adopting progressive ideas, and you do so when it’s politically convenient. and c) you are blatantly corrupt, and we can easily see it thanks to our abandonment of the filtered, propaganda machine that is the mainstream press.
Also, this idea of gradual progress is ironically why the Democrats are so goddamn terrible at politics and getting things done.
For example, we could have easily gotten a public option with Obamacare, but because there had to “compromise” to “reach across the aisle”, we ended up with the milquetoast mess we have today. And how many republicans ended up voting for it? ZERO. And years of controversy still followed.
Can they not see that they have a losing strategy? Is it because they are so deep in their elitist bubble? Or is it because of certain interests? Probably both
This is a disappointing story by the Intercept. Its a sign that they’re getting carried away. The insinuation that Hillary Clinton says one thing to donors and another to the public is palpably not proven by this clip. There is a difference between a private meeting and a secret meeting. I wish the Intercept would aspire to higher standards of accuracy and seriousness. Otherwise, they run the risk of turning into just yet another magazine out to make a quick buck with clickbait.
I support progressive ends. I think the financial meltdown in 2008 revealed the excesses of capitalism sufficiently to provide an opportunity for social democratic methods to gain currency. Mr. Sanders’ rise indicates this. But I do not support the pursuit of progressive ends via fascistic means. And lying and insinuating things (just look at the comments to this thread to see how successful the insinuation has been) is fascistic. It relies on the idea that the end justifies the means.
Mrs. Clinton has never promised “free college” or “free healthcare”. In fact, this was one of the points of distinction between her views and those of Mr. Sanders. But she did produce a compromise with Mr. Sanders after the end of the primary campaign to produce the party platform.
I have and will continue to have higher expectations from the Intercept. By printing things like this, they undermine their credibility for the times when they get something really significant. I wish they wouldn’t do this.
Your concern trolling is duly noted, and flushed. And by the way about this:
That would be very odd behavior for a non-profit entity such as the one that runs The Intercept, which carries no ads and demands no subscription fees.
Maybe you should go cry to Glenn and “TBTB”?
Err….. The Intercept is palpably not funded by a non-profit entity. First Look Media is, in its own words “a new-model media company devoted to supporting independent voices across all platforms, from fearless investigative journalism and documentary filmmaking to smart, provocative entertainment. Launched in 2013 by eBay founder and philanthropist Pierre Omidyar, First Look operates as both a studio and digital media company.”
It’s motto is “Entertainment with something on its mind”.
The Intercept is palpably not funded by a non-profit entity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Look_Media
Further exploration of what a 501(c)(3) entity is yields this:
This article is fair game, quite being so sensitive. It’s not like its authors are drawing unfair or absurd conclusions from it. I think you take more exception with the article’s comments which are indeed inferior, but that shouldn’t be a reflection of the piece.
I think those most genuinely insulted by the audio are the most ardent Bernie supporters, who see her as being dismissive of their idealism. Cry me a river.
It does more than that. The crux of the article is not that Clinton disagrees with die-hard Bernie supporters, it is that she lies – she says one thing to one set of people and another to another set. I don’t think die-hard Bernie people are stupid enough to be offended by someone who disagrees with them. But they will be offended by someone who, it is suggested by sources they trust, lies to them.
The story insinuates something it does not actually show. This suggests a certain amount of mediocrity which I did not expect from The Intercept.
I think you’re reading way too far between the lines and worrying about how others will perceive this. You cannot control how others spin such stories, but can comment on the article’s contents. Ultimately, their piece is fair, representative of what happened, and accurate. If you can find one thing that is inaccurate or misleading, please quote it and we can discuss.
I understand your frustration though – that the comments completely fly off the hinge. But that’s just the way it is! But you should recognize that their ravings are are mostly tangential to the article, but mostly off-subject. That’s because they know this article isn’t some bombshell but want to vent anyways.
I doubt they’re thrilled about being called basement dwellers. It’s condescending, but certainly not malicious.
Keep one thing in mind though: your comment here is pretty darn similar to the sentiment of people who are tired of TI criticizing Trump. They say negative coverage of Trump is tabloid journalism and want to shoot the messenger (Robert Mackey). You’ve shared your disagreement in a respectful manner so that speaks volumes about your character. But don’t fall into the trap of shooting the messenger. If you disagree with their piece, you should specifically explain why.
>>>Mrs. Clinton has never promised “free college” or “free healthcare”.
Liar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ZJ28DoZa0
Stop lying, liar.
Just thought I would correct the record on this one (forgive me if this is a double post, I’m trying again since I think my browser may be interfering with posting comments):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ZJ28DoZa0
You haven’t corrected anything. Clinton is describing precisely the compromise she reached with Sanders while negotiated the platform. To quote your video “to make college tuition free for the middle class and debt free for all.”
Here is Sanders’ proposal:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/
The US Federal Government cannot eliminate tuition at public universities (which are run by State Governments). What it can do is provide funding to everybody, either as a loan or as a grant. Which is ultimately what Sanders proposed.
And here is Clinton’s:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/college/
If people actually take the time to hear the whole 40 minute audio, she actually sounds great, real and frank. She says a lot of great things about economic issues, inequality, the environmental issues. Sadly, those who hate her will only listen to the chopped up bits out of context but if there is anyone out there on the fence who leans left and is truly hoping to make the best decision, you should listen to the whole thing.
Hillary Clinton knows that many people are gullible enough to
listen to her words and forget her actions.
She is as devious as they come.
She has proudly supported invasions and slaughter and she
tells lies on a regular basis.
Her most recent and most prominent BS had to do with the
fact that she called the TPP “the Gold Standard,” but now she
promotes the lie that she only “hoped” it would be the “Gold Standard.”
Anyone who will listen to her for 40 minutes is in serious need of
mental health counseling.
Consider the fact also that it takes someone as disgusting as Trump
to make her look better
(especially as she has helped slaughtered so many innocent people).
Ask her if she believes in letter writing.
The tape reveals the real Hillary as a fascist harpy contemptuous of those who have not broken heads and done what is necessary to clime the greasy pole to the top. The corruption she represents is profound, and the hubris she represents as a war criminal is evil and dangerous to our future, since her foreign policy appears to be destabilization and total war on behalf of the thugs her system is employing for this destabilization.
It doesn’t surprise me that Clinton equates populism with xenophobia, nationalism and a discriminatory mentality.
But, at this point, Clinton should be reminded that the demographic most responsible for holding the glass ceiling in place keeping women out of corporate boardrooms is, ironically, educated, white males.
Put another way: Highly educated, highly white, highly male misogynists lead the sexist charge against women in the professional ranks, not we blue collar boys.
The unionized working class that the Clintons despise, yet court shamelessly for their support, only to discard them as so much garbage later, voted to allow women into the workplace as equals decades ago.
That the elites of the Democratic Party are half a century behind the class they loathe so much, is a shame that I will not overlook.
Well stated.
Not to mention Saudi Arabia donating tens of millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation and god knows how much to Hillary herself and her various SuperPACS.
But I’m sure that’s just “good will” money because the Saudis love seeing women “break the glass ceiling”.
Indeed. Look at how the Democrats treated the last woman to run on the Democratic ticket before her (Carol Moseley-Braun). Look at how they treated the highly qualified Pam Keith in Florida (They backed an ex-Republican who lied about his resume, even when he refused to debate anyone!)
As Senator Obama said in 2008 HRC will say anything to get elected.
She still scratches her head as she wonders why people don’t trust her. The answer of course is: Not everyone is as stupid as she thinks they are.
“Politics is the art of the possible.”
SUCH an original statement.
With tribal Demorats like the Clintons and Obamas, politics is the art of the pooh-pooh.
DemoCrats…
Right the first time
Honestly, this is the most honest I’ve heard Clinton sound. If she talked like this all the time, there’d be no problems from the base whatsoever. It doesn’t sound like political speak.
Chief, what you been smokin’?
She dismisses millennials’ concerns with this:
And says she’s “from the center-left to the center-right.” The millennials who poured out in throngs for Bernie are not at all on the right; they are friendly to the social democracy model Scandinavia has. As are many of us olders.
No candidate who, in both word and deed, behaves like a rightwinger is going to be pleasing to that base.
She does not only behave like a right-winger, she is a neocapitalist corporatocratist right-winger and on top of that a neocon war hawk.
Yeah, but Bernie and Warren both like her! How bad could she be?
” Bernie and Warren both like her”
I’ve never once gotten that impression from either. Maybe it’s just me.
Both Warren and Sanders have endorsed Clinton. If you are unaware of this fact then you have no business commenting on anything political. More simply, “like” meant “prefer” in this instance.
I’m not saying that I agree with the content of what she’s saying. I’m saying that she doesn’t sound rehearsed. She sounds like she’s thinking through something, as opposed to delivering talking points. And that’s why I think she “sounds” honest.
quote” I plead guilty.”
Says Clinton at the end of her war crimes trial.
But they can spend trillions on foreign wars and trillions more on nuclear weapons they can’t use and trillions more on weapons that don’t work. And they can’t enforce laws on Too Big To Fail Banks.Or stop blatant corruption like at banks like Wells Fargo. Or stop profiteering by medical and pharmaceutical companies. Or stop the offshoring of American jobs. Or secure the border and enforce immigration laws.
Her “Can’t Do” list is pretty extensive and depressing.
Totally…War is antiquated and is now known to enrich the rich, not the masses. I hate this election
Well SAID! They only CAN’T DO when it’s actually something that would benefit the American people!
While in reality Clinton occupies the far authoritarian right (quite like Trump, Thatcher, G.W Bush etc)
It’s only fear of Trump that has many voting for her. I am tired of seeing it on my tumblr. Nobody is entitled to a vote.
Manufactured fear from the same merchants who gave US Iraq,Afghanistan,Syria,Libya etc etc.
Trump is the least bellicose in policy since Jimmy Carter.
He wants to eliminate IsUS.
Everywhere else he is non aggressive.
His domestic policies were mainstream before the advent of globalization.
As an American,what’s not to like?
Trump is our modern FDR,of course different in style and intent,but the only rich guy standing up to the global criminals.
I’m finding it very difficult to state my opinions on this website since it brings out the ignorant lefty versions of the great Orange Messiah, tweeting silly, unsubstantiated nonsense all day and night with the accusation that Jimmy works for Correct the Record. No, I don’t work for the Clinton’s. I just happen to think that they’re great people who have done and will do amazing things in the world such as the A plus rated and highly effective Clinton Foundation that has likely saved millions of lives.
If you think about it, why on earth would they or any organization that supports them give a damn about this website? And why would I have not simply gone by a different name instead of consistently using my real name, Jimmy, whenever I felt like posting to avoid detection? I know, that’s really hard to put together, it’s sort of like Bernie math and the Hillary rigged the primaries and stole 3.5 million votes sort of theory that a six year old could punch holes in. Or better yet, the debates were rigged, Lester Holt the Republican suddenly became a Democrat and gave Hil the lay up to mention Miss Universe and meanwhile, the evil “Jimmy’s” were behind the scene fucking with the mic and sending secret static electrical shocks up the Orange Messiah’s ass to confuse his “very good brain.”
Many of the clowns of privilege who post here should really join the Trump crowd, the confluence of conspiracy theories about the evil and conniving Hillary and their secret agent “Jimmy’s” who want nothing less than to conquer the world would be even more convincing. You know, strength in neuronal numbers.
Meanwhile, once again, a little advice from the Jimmy Says column. If you good folks do manage to get Trump elected in the same split the young vote manner that the malignant narcissist Ralph Nader installed Bush with the belief that the next election would be Nader’s, an event that would certainly prove you and the righteous others who occupy the Jill Stein pure as snow trust fund supported Lexington MA rarefied air, right after all about Hil, then let me warn you, get your trust funds, that is the hard earned sweat of others that was passed down to you along with all of its regal privilege that allows you to write your gibberish, out of the market.
I “googled” “Jimmy” and it said that “Jimmy” is not your real name. The name, “Jimmy,” has been taken. So there’s no way that it could be your name too.
Just in case you’re too dense to get it, that’s a satirical comment on how laughable it is that you’re trying to pass off “Jimmy is my real name” as some convincing argument for the rest of the laughable butt-head stuff that you post.
“Jimmy” is my next-door neighbor. He chose the name himself, because his original, Mandarin, name was difficult for Americans. So it’s definitely taken.
I’m pretty sure my real Jimmy would never shill for Revise the Record, so this guy has to be an impostor.
I’m finding it very difficult to state my opinions on this website …
Really? Because you just left another of your long screeds for all to see. As far as people commenting, get over it, this isn’t now nor has ever been anything anyone might consider a “safe space”. It is where people come to air their opinions and have them examined. If you want a “safe space” then put your energy into creating your own media space.
why on earth would they or any organization that supports them give a damn about this website?
Why? Perhaps because it has been shown to present significant journalism that is independent of the normal avenues of control that are currently exercised over more traditional media sites? And, if you doubt that these people would stoop to bother, maybe you could explain to me why Clinton Head Priestess Neera Tanden responds to comments about Hillary on twitter almost as indiscreetly as Donald Trump, if not quite at the same hours of the day.
Many of the clowns of privilege who post here should really join the Trump crowd, …
That, like so much of what you pull out of thin air, would be very convenient to you. But it’s not going to happen because people here, and elsewhere, are actually exercising their ability to think for themselves and not bow down to either of these rancid individuals. You simply don’t get to put us into either Box A(sshole) or Box Q(ueen of the World).
As for Nader, kudos for setting up the same, sterile, disproven strawman that Jim Hightower and many others destroyed way back in 2000:
Sound familiar? It should, it’s what Clinton’s still doing. Wearing her centrism like the cement booties from 2000 (and before) that they are. There’s more….
And it continues to this day because the Democratic party has become, if anything, even less responsive to what used to compose its core constituency. Of course there’s more…
This last bit is what I find most truly damning for the Democratic party because it shows that they are either too stupid to learn from their mistakes, too egotistical to even examine them honestly, or too mendacious to admit their true political aoms have nothing to do with serving the public that actually votes for them:
The Democratic party’s actions in the primary show that they are not trying at all to enlist discarded voters, voters who don’t feel like either party is addressing their needs. They weren’t doing it then and they’re not doing it now. They are no longer interested in GOTV initiatives, not really. They are still playing a stupid Clinton third-way triangulation. Continuing to co-opt the methods of the Republicans; Wall St financing, play to the big spenders, give the top 1% what they want, suppress and/or coerce voters with fear, then do whatever the fuck you want to serve and enrich yourself and your power base while still superficially pandering to the social elements that are the only tangible remaining shreds of tattered blue you still own to disguise your own greed and power-mongering. Well, those shreds, and the pittance of crumbs that fall off them, are no longer enough. They weren’t in 2000 and they damned sure aren’t now.
https://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/
@Pedinska-yup what you said! After reading your response I want to piss you off so I can be educated, put in my place and entertained all at the same time.
Oh, pshaw….. ;-}
That’s exactly what TI’s comments section is. The like-mindedness of commenters here is undeniable. I can count on one hand those sympathetic to Clinton. Trump or Jill Stein supporters on the other hand dominate the discussion (surprisingly not Johnson, don’t get that). Stein polls at under 3% nationally. Yesterday, your pal Mona admitted that she contacted Glenn to whine and moan about Robert Mackey because of his repeated criticism of Trump. Commentators want Mackey’s head for his pieces. The insularity here is profound, so Jimmy isn’t totally off-base. His comments may be lacking and zealous, but are being met with accusations of his being a shill.
If you are going to ask for independent journalism and then qualify that by defining it as work outside the “normal avenues of control” then you don’t really want independent journalism, you just want views that run contrary to mainstream consensus.
As some wise man said, “people always claim to be in favor of journalistic freedom and editorial independence – until a writer at a publication they read writes something they disagree with.”
Just another of my occasional reminders that Nate is a fuckwit. (And I didn’t “admit” to contacting Glenn wiht my opinion of Mackey’s performance of late; I stated/em> it. It’s not the first, and won’t be the last, time I’ve given both positive and negative opinions to Glenn about articles and writers here, including his and him.)
As for this:
Yes, the core commentariat here is smart, well-informed and morally decent. Hence, very few are “sympathetic” to a neoliberal, sociopathic hawk like Hillary Clinton (“We came, we saw, he died” [cackling, giggling])
My kingdom for formatting icons.
Ha. You’re hilarious Mona. You totally admitted to contacting Glenn and threatening to whine to “the powers that be.”
Nate the fuckwit cannot read: I stated that I emailed Glenn. As in volunteered it, not forced into some “admission.” Most people here know he and I are in frequent contact.
Transcript of the email: Glennnnnnnnnn…..It’s Monnnnna and I’m upset. Mackey is writing stuff that hurts my wittle feewings…this isn’t the journalistic independence I had in mind!!
This constant bitching and whining about Mona’s friendship with Glenn is boring and pathetic. Of course they’re friends, you fuckwits! Don’t all of you have longtime friends from various stages of your lives and careers? Well, maybe not all of you. ;^(
Just stop it. If you don’t know, by now, that Glenn and the PTB would only respond to guidance or a warning from Mona if they agreed that it was substantive and appropriate, you’re probably never going to get it.
And if you think it’s somehow “wrong” or “unfair” of Mona to communicate her opinions and concerns to her friends, you should probably go argue with your siblings about “Mom always liking them better.”
Not to mention that Glenn’s email address is publicly available.
https://theintercept.com/staff/glenn-greenwald/
If they’re so concerned about Mona’s outsized influence with someone who trusted her enough to found a law practice with her and have her participate in editing his books they can always take their whinging to him directly.
It’s not her fault they weren’t there for him when he started his career, giving him whatever they think qualifies as good feedback. But it is their fault if they don’t choose to exercise the options – e.g. email and twitter – that are exactly as accessible to them as those available to her.
Thanks, Pedinska. Glenn and I have been sharing opinions (and sometimes fighting!) for 20 years. But he (and I) have picked up more friends since then, friends to whom we both listen. You are one of them, because you are super smart and morally decent. And, you send us good pepper jelly.
And, you send us good pepper jelly.
It’s always about the bribes with you people. ;-}
Influence has nothing to do with it because I don’t think Glenn would even entertain her requests. What’s revolting about it is that she’s taking using her friendship to get her voice heard to silence a TI author.
But if Mona’s comment is so tame and conventional, maybe she’ll share Glenn’s response with us?
Doug – this isn’t just about friendship. This is using said friendship to try to silence a journalist.
This is using said friendship to try to silence a journalist.
Someone please give Nate a feinting couch so he doesn’t knock his drama queen tiara askew as he gently wilts to the floor.
As if Glenn or any other adult running a media company would base hiring/firing decisions on any given opinion they receive.
My eyes are rolling so hard they just escaped across the kitchen floor which is a crime because I was just about to make more habanero pepper jelly to bribe Glenn to listen to me (instead of Mona).
Or as if I have or wanted the power to “make” Glenn do a goddam thing. We wouldn’t be friends if either of us acted as if we had the right to do that. As you imply, he appreciates feedback from trusted readers. I’m one of them, but not the only.
A feinting couch sounds pretty neat! I’ll take two.
Your loyalty to Mona is touching. And you’re right, nobody in their right mind would make decisions based on Mona’s whiny input. It’s just pitiful that she’s actually trying. And you’re defending it.
It’s just pitiful that she’s actually trying. And you’re defending it.
See here:
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/30/hillary-clinton-center-right/?comments=1#comment-289275
Being young is all relative, but ultimately irrelevant. When I used to read physical magazines containing letters to the editor/authors, not once did I encounter an argument that went:
You are defending the indefensible – censorship – and I think you know it :)
There is a monumental difference between criticizing and disagreeing with an author’s work versus attempting to silence them because his material “isn’t worthwhile.” Another false equivalence from Pedinska.
Dear Glenn, if Doug, if [Pedinska] doesn’t revert to worthwhile material after this election is over– if he spends it [attacking me] — they will simply have to do something. At that point I’ll make my displeasure known to TPTB. (I’ve already grumbled about the last, inane [Pedinska comment] to You Know Who.)
Your loyalty to Mona is a good thing to do as a friend, but with all due respect, it makes you look ridiculous. And for what!? Why should you have to defend her foolish comments?
You are defending the indefensible – censorship – and I think you know it :)
No. Perhaps a review of definitions in is on order. So first,
Second, is censorship indefensible? It can be, such as when the government engages its considerable resources to silence individuals and/or groups. That’s why we have the First Amendment. What about corporate censorship? Maybe, wrt misuse of resources see above, though there is a considerable body of legislation/legal precedent that says that such censorship is permissible in our society. Doesn’t mean we have to like it or support it.
Third, am I personally supporting it? No. I haven’t called for Mackey to be fired. What I DO support is anyone who wants to have a say about his writing – and that includes both you and Mona – have available to them the tools to do so. And you/we do. It’s called email and comment sections. Mona is free to avail herself of these tools, as are you, and the people who make hiring and firing decisions are free – according to the legal precepts of this country – to either act on them or not.
That is all I’ve been saying. But keep flailing at the boogeyman you’ve created. I just hope you gave it some nice blonde hair like mine. That way it will have at least a nugget of truth to it. :-)
And also, I hope (and strongly suspect) that others are also emailing GLenn about Mackey’s embarrassing performance of late. Glenn (properly) does not interfere with what other writers post, but for hiring and retention decisions it’s useful for him to know what his smart readers think.
I bet you hope others are resorting to your embarrassing tactics. Misery loves company. It would be too hard for Mona to avoid Mackey as you have no self control.
PS: LOL at you as the judge of smart readers. You’re the biggest amoeba in the slime pit.
I bet you hope others are resorting to your embarrassing tactics.
You’re young, so perhaps you’re not as well-informed about the history of such media stand-bys as letters to the editor, etc. Feedback has always been a part of media in one form or another. Labeling it “embarrassing” is really puzzling to me since you engage in airing your own opinions about the writing here all the time.
The fact that you can’t be bothered to take the time to send it to people who may act on it or, at least, give it some consideration, in a form more likely to get their attention is self-neutering of a really exceptional caliber.
I hope (and strongly suspect) that others are also emailing GLenn about Mackey’s embarrassing performance of late.
A good suggestion. I would additionally suggest that contacting Betsy Reed might be another option for people since she is the Editor-in-Chief. Her info can be found in the same place as Glenn’s for those who are inclined to actually do something other than bitching at people who are motivated enough to actually lodge an opinion. :-s
” I can count on one hand those sympathetic to Clinton. ”
I doubt many Clinton supporters bother to read anything remotely informative as they are usually solely obsessed with what Trump has said or done… it’s a rather morbid obsession for someone who has virtually zero chance of winning this thing.
So as such, most Clinton supporters stay away from sites that provide information that is not 100% pro Clinton. They are “with her” from the get go, she has now flaws and is obviously the embodiment of human perfection, why come here and be reminded of one’s ability to delude themselves? And even if a few odd ones would read some of these articles, they have no idea how to argue anything in favor of a candidate who has nothing to promote apparently but the revolutionary idea that she is “not trump”, a very positive and energizing message for the future!
The like-mindedness of commenters here is undeniable. I can count on one hand those sympathetic to Clinton.
Maybe you should set up another spreadsheet to support this assertion while you’re working on that other one. Sympathy, like love, is not something that should be extended to the most powerful people in our society. It is irrational.
Stein polls at under 3% nationally.
So? You continue to push the tired “false equivalence” lie here because it allows you – and everyone else who keeps falling for the LOTE crap every election – to avoid the fact that there is a growing segment of the citizenry that rejects the false dichotomy of the extant two-party corruption of our electoral process. Our purpose is to support candidates that support our needs. Period. And we will continue to do that, and to explore ways to shred the current artificially constructed duopoly unless and until it addresses those needs.
Commentators want Mackey’s head for his pieces.
No. We want him to write considered, fact-based – as opposed to tabloid emotion-based – reporting. As Mona noted, and I and others have supported in commenting, his pieces on police brutality and the ME are good. We just expect him to support Hillary and critique Trump based on the issues that will be most important once he is in office. The women of America are under no threat from Trump. We are strong enough to take it, and dish it back in spades. That’s why his support from women is so meager. That will continue to be the case from now until after the election. Trump’s misogyny is well-established so falling into line with every other establishment media hissy fit over which beauty queens he’s dissed is absolute dreck.
“people always claim to be in favor of journalistic freedom and editorial independence – until a writer at a publication they read writes something they disagree with.”
Aim that shit at someone else. Right now you’re talking to me and I’ve never called for Mackey or any other journalist here to be fired for their opinions. Keep your commenters straight, because that accusation holds no water wrt to me. It’s just smear-by-association, something you go into full-throated baying mode over whenever you think you perceive it ATL.
“As far as people commenting, get over it, this isn’t now nor has ever been anything anyone might consider a “safe space”. It is where people come to air their opinions and have them examined. If you want a “safe space” then put your energy into creating your own media space.”
Thanks. I will share that quote with your pal Mona.
Yup, and the Clintonistas have been having fainting-couch moments since the primaries, especially on Twitter. Hence all the “BernieBros” (contrived) inanity. They want Twitter and the whole Internet to be one enormous “safe space” for their Queen.
People smart enough to grasp what Hillary Clinton is tend to be exceptionally well-informed, well-read and are often able debaters with facts at their command. Some of us do not suffer fools gladly — and that includes Glenn Greenwald more so than anyone.
If folks want a site where imbeciles will not be called out as such — with plenty of facts supporting why they are that — this ain’t it.
People smart enough to grasp what Hillary Clinton is tend to be exceptionally well-informed, well-read and are often able debaters with facts at their command.
Yes, but even those whose lives don’t lend themselves to having the time to be what we might describe as “well-informed” or “well-read” have had enough of the austerity, wars and siphoning from the bottom to the top. They may not be able to articulate it as eloquently, but they’re not wrong and shouldn’t be sidelined (not that that’s what you’re doing).
Hey Jimmy, when do shifts change at Revise the Record? Is Karen still assigned here as well?
How long you guys going to peddle that debunked lie that Nader cost Gore the election, which of course is a laughable ahistorical counterfactual fantasy? How about focus your ire on the 11% of registered Democrats that actually voted for Bush and not Gore.
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2000/
” I just happen to think that they’re (the Clinton’s) great people who have done and will do amazing things in the world….” – Jimmy
You mean great things like these??! (Attributable to Hillary Clinton):
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-30/handy-chart-countries-destroyed-hillary
Colin Powell nailed it when he said, “Hillary Clinton screws up everything she touches thanks to overwhelming personal hubris.”
All the millions of lives around the world that Hillary Clinton has personally had a hand in destroying, either by death, maiming, destruction of dwellings or overthrowing decent people to install ruthless dictators/despots is the ONLY reason ANY American needs to denounce her and to NEVER cast a vote for her for President!
It has been my experience that no one political ideology aside from sincerity and integrity, (if you can speak of sincerity and integrity in political discourse without laughing/crying,) could be definitively ascribed to this publication or any of the contributors. It has also been my personal experience that if I have a feeling that a something I want to say is going to be ravaged, it’s because I haven’t done the necessary due diligence to be able to back up my opinion. You may or may not remember, but TI did a few interesting pieces a while back about high school kids debating national security issues and debating in general, i’d paste the links, but can’t/don’t know how LOL.
It was widely reported the Clinton Campaign had a small army of people ready to counter any negative portrayal of Mrs. Clinton on the internet. To infer you were the poor soul to draw the short straw to sway hearts and minds over here, well, least commom denominator.
Is the fact the DNC rigged the primaries even in dispute? Those, “voter irregularities,” in Brooklyn.
I’ve seen both candidates speak locally and there is a real distinction to be drawn from the crowds they attract. There WERE skinheads at the Trump event and the KKK IS passing out fliers in a nearby rural county. The crowd at the Clinton event was diverse as one would expect. But a legitimate argument has been made, that Mrs. Clinton presents a greater existential threat. One she has yet to overcome.
Those comments show just how out-of-touch she truly is. People don’t just “feel” this way, this is reality for the majority of this country.
She keeps saying people “feel” to diminish the problems that they genuinely face. People don’t just “feel” that their healthcare is unaffordable and they don’t just “feel” that the job market is far worse than it was 20 years ago. These are facts.
It’s “a mindset”.
I’m glad you caught that ‘feel’ verb too, because here we see how Mrs. Clinton diminishes our real needs, concerns, and our very comprehension of what is at stake in this election. People with health insurance who are tens of thousands of dollars in debt for uncovered medical costs, people with college debt who can’t pursue the education they need for the profession they qualify for – medical doctor comes to mind – hence the small number of American educated doctors employed at your local hospital – it’s not because American students are incapable, but because they can’t afford to pursue the M.D. degree. Under Mrs. Clinton’s thumb we old people will continue to die poor and stupid, our savings drained by paying medical expenses Medicare doesn’t cover, such as hearing aids, eyeglasses and exams, dental care, even preventive care, all the while being fed her lies about gender equality which her own entitled life disproves in every way. Sorry to rant on,but I wanted to zero in on your savvy comment.
Hilliary stays true to who she is. She will say or do anything to gain control of the White House.
Behind closed door with her wealthy backers, she doesn’t skip a beat when she talks about the ignorance of the “young pie in the sky” followers of Bernie Sanders at her fundraiser in February 2016.
Now, what do we hear her saying?
Promising: Free College, Free Health Care, Free ChildCare, Free Profit Sharing, FREE etc., all without the so called “Millennials” having to do anything except vote for Hilliary Clinton for
President of the United States of America, which to Hilliary equates to “President of the World”.
Madam Hillary Clinton will pimp anything or anyone, including her family to achieve her goal; POWER.
This isn’t really offensive or patronizing or newsworthy
Ugh. Hillary or Trump, progressive are getting thrown under the bus and run over a couple times. She’ll never take anyone’s issues under 40 seriously nor will she put any effort into the progressive platform Sanders fought for. This article isn’t much as far as news. It’s only confirming the obvious with us progressives, that two Republicans from the elitist class are running for office.
Do people really find her statement unusual for a politician attempting to raise money? To me there does not seem to be anything controversial about what she said. She was trying to place herself at the center of the political spectrum. Clinton is deeply unpopular and I oppose her but that does not mean I have to parse her every statement – what is the point of this article?
Well, I’m no fan and I’m also not from the U.S. but I found that fascinating.
First because you can be in the room for a pitch that goes beyond stump speeches.
Second because you can feel the rhetorical hooks. I’m all for a billion solar panels etc.
3rd you can hear where she’s going, ‘better manufacturing, greater prosperity etc.’ (Business as usual)
4th Clinton totally fails to address structural problems. Market economics and education don’t mix well. Yet the answer isn’t higher education that is more selective by ability but also costs nothing. NO WAY that’s radical, possibly ‘revolutionary’. What the U.S. needs is a ‘stronger economy’ to pay back those underemployed graduates.
So, the point of the article is…. the more you know the better.
Plus, it generates comment and that’s no bad thing.
Given the excesses of U.S. political ‘capital’ since AD 9/11, it takes a cynical and jaded soul, clinging tenaciously to the despairing slough materialism, to put education and health care out of the realm of possibility.
*particularly from someone who has enjoyed the fruits of an Ivy league education and the very best that American health care offers.
So where does her vote that gave the Bush administration the green light for their bloody invasion, her push as Secretary of State for the devastating military intervention in Libya and catastrophic arming of unknown rebels in Syria fit between “center left and center right?”
All deadly catastrophes falls out of that range, Into the cataclysmic zone,
I couldn’t listen to the audio, (no adobe flash on a PS4,) but this didn’t offend me deeply. On the contrary, it read like a clear eyed assessment of the current electorate and adds some context as to why the DNC employed the tactics they did, they viewed Sanders’ supporters as the other side of the coin that Mr. Trump occupies. Although, I also believe the political taste makers are either ignoring or misinterpretting the direction of the winds of change, at their own expense.
Clinton is a corrupt, sociopath. Trump is a loud mouth ass. And Sanders betrayed his loyal supporters when he endorsed Clinton. Any way you look at it, this election has become a bad joke and the American public has become the butt of that joke. But a Clinton administration will shred the Constitution, suffocate individual rights and terminate our liberties. Our society of law and order, honor, honesty, integrity and empathy will be tossed down the rabbit hole and buried under a mound of bs. It will be the darkest period of American history.
The Hotelling solution of spatial distribution explains why Democrats would fill political space abandoned by Republican withdrawal from center right
Are you sure that was the order things happened? Did the Republicans run far to the right and pull the Democrats with them? Or did Bill Clinton and the DLC triangulate into previously Republican territory, forcing the Republicans to go even further right to maintain their base?
Let us cast off this liberal bs and become radicals! I think this revelation begs a mention of Saul Alinsky’s book Reveille for Radicals. It’s abundantly clear now, we’ve lost our soul.
The U.S. is a very right wing country and the two gangs reflect that. The Republican establishment is far right, and the Democratic establishment is center-right, though it’s as right as the Republicans when it comes to big issues like oil, war, and trade. So for Clinton to say that she’s center-left to anything is pure bullshit. She’s center right to far right depending on the issue. And Trump is far psychopath, so take your pick.
As a 27 year old staff attorney for the House Judiciary Committee during the Watergate investigation ,Hillary Rodham was fired by her supervisor , lifelong Democrat Jerry Zeifman .
When asked why Hillary Rodham was fired ..“Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said in an interview . “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality.”
This woman needs to take a long vacation .I have no fear going into this election and I’m ashamed that Bernie attempted to dump us off on the side of the war trodden road .disgusting .Jill Stein will be my voice and I live in Flori-DUH swing state tho it may be .Voted for Nader and this year I will accept all the derision that I got back then .So what ? we might have had a far better future /world .
Sad , really miserable .
Who cares? Anywhere on the spectrum is better than where Trump is and just because you’re center doesn’t mean you can’t get the shit done she’s said she will. It may mean that people all over the spectrum will work with her to pass legislation. This is such a BS thing to focus on when Trump is spouting his nonsense and inconsistencies.
Translated this into Esperanto here: https://medium.com/veren/kodrompita-sonregistra%C4%B5o-malka%C5%9Das-ke-hillary-clinton-rigardas-sin-kiel-okupanto-de-centro-e0958ea8b871#.uq0kf683f
Keep up the great reporting. :)
I am enjoying the dichotomy between comments within the Trump and Clinton related articles today.
The articles about Trump’s historical misogyny and recent early morning shaming of a former model is met with yawns and calls for Mackey’s head. “This isn’t news, its tabloid material!!”
An article about Clinton’s light condescension of ardent Sanders supporters and innocuous thoughts on idealism, Scandinavian policies (LOL), and self-identification as a political centrist is met with unfettered outrage! “Clinton is a lying POS!”
It reeks of a desperation to confirm predetermined bias. Some of you are trying so, so hard to convince yourselves that Clinton is no better or even worse than Trump.
What condescension? Where is the condescension you speak of?
No really, I want to know. She expressed empathy and a pragmatism, and realism required in getting anything done through congress.
She is absolutely correct that she will need the support of the house and senate, or did you think a Sanders presidency would be able to strong arm a push through congress of his policies or that he will abuse his executive authority as President.
The “light condescension” I spoke of was calling Bernie supporters basement dwellers.
We’re in agreement on the rest of your post. I think you’re misunderstanding most of my comment, which was ridiculing the explosive reaction to this.
Nate, I think you are try to say that Trump is obviously worse than Hillary when you say, “Some of you are trying so, so hard to convince yourselves that Clinton is no better or even worse than Trump”, right? Just wanted to see if I understand your perspective correctly.
Upon a quick reread, I see that my initial take on your post was correct. I agree with you, trump is far worse then Hillary, but surely neither is ideal right? Isn’t there a better way forward?
Jeremiah,
Hillary is a weak candidate with a ton of baggage. She is anti-transparent, way too interventionist, paranoid and protective from so many years in the political arena, calculating, she has made several infuriating lies, avoids media scrutiny, has conflicts of interest, and is surrounded by a few too many zealots, and her whole e-mail ordeal boggled the mind.
So yes, she is so, so far from ideal. Bernie was a fantastic candidate in my view. I could forgive that his tax plan was ridiculous and that some of his stuff was impractical because he struck me as someone who could ultimately find a middle ground without abandoning his principles. He is trustworthy, smart, and just a good person. Someone whose bumper sticker you could proudly plop on your car and hold your head up high.
He lost. It sucks, I moved on.
The main event is now Trump v. Clinton, with Johnson and Stein acting as spoiler. That’s just reality.
So yeah, choosing Clinton isn’t something to get excited about but the alternative is truly frightening. Clinton’s warts look bad in a vacuum, but next to Trump she is stunningly superior. You’d think her destruction of Trump in the debates would demonstrate that.
In the short term (this election), no. In the long term I sure hope so. I don’t know what the solution is and I pray that this cycle is a historical outlier.
Some of us aren’t playing that game, setup by the media and the DNC. For we who take the time to investigate the records of both candidates of the corrupt, corporate war parties, both are unacceptable. By that I mean, totally unacceptable. Only the careerists, job seekers and morally bankrupt will vote for either Republican.
Totally agree. Both are Republicans and if you look at Hillary’s record, she is even further to the right than Donald is. Both are unfit to be president. The media has not been doing it’s job. It’s like reading the National Inquirer on EVERY “news” site though it is obviously biased for Hillary. All attacks on Trump (though mostly deserved), and pro Hillary. Which isn’t fair at all to the public. They should just be stating the positions of each candidate and not add all the biased opinions and statements from “journalists” and pundits.
I’d say it’s the opposite. You pathetic partisan drones get hilariously outraged by whatever comment Trump makes or any little detail that’s uncovered of his history. You strongly condemn Romney’s comments or Trump’s comments when they condescend and speak ill of a certain group of people, but yet when Hillary Clinton does it, “it’s all fine!” It simply gets dismissed. “Trump’s private life should be investigated to the tee.” “Absurd. Can you leave John Kerry and Bill Clinton’s private lives out of journalism, dammit?!” Both candidates are terrible and their supporters are equally delusional, goalpost-moving, and pathetically contradictory and hypocritical in their principles. I’m sure you feel proud of your totally unbiased, politically/intellectually nuanced position.
She is worse than Trump. Deal with it.
Just because Trump is unfit for office does not give Hillary criminal license. Obstruction of Justice charges would pending were it not for a corrupted Dep’t. of Justice and FBI coverup .
She’s not just as bad as Trump, but she represents policies that increase economic insecurity, and economic insecurity is a breeding ground for fascism. Two sides of the same coin. So sure, vote against Trump, but do so with the understanding that it Clinton will do nothing to destroy the conditions that made him possible.
I haven’t the foggiest idea of how you’d destroy the conditions that allowed Trump’s rise. I think step 1 is to identify the conditions.
Where is the unfettered outrage? Most of these comments think there’s nothing here. The article itself doesn’t express outrage.
Fixed political allegiance to any politician is an act of confirmation bias as politicians own allegiances are chronically fluid. A cursory example of the Clinton’s professed allegiance as in the democratic primary ranged from centrist to radically progressive as Sander’s campaign began to attract to much attention. As Sander’s faux-radical political posture was calculated, in part, to draw the bulk of republican contempt, Clinton had the luxury to camouflage her abiding loyalty to those who have provided financial backing for both she and Bill for nearly three decades. Now that she is facing Trump, her center of gravity has predictably shifted to right center for the purpose of maximizing her range of voter support. This strategy is practiced by every astute politician whose campaigns are managed by public relations firms. Secondly, Clinton has embraced a strategy wherein specific PR firms are hired to enhance her appeal to discrete voter blocs. For instance, the Clinton campaign chose Chicago’s Burrell Communications to work on a series of campaigns targeting African-American voters.
Some of you are trying so, so hard to convince yourselves that Clinton is no better or even worse than Trump.
Ah, yes, the tried and true false equivalence argument. Except that it’s old and flat and doesn’t really apply. One doesn’t need to set up a spreadsheet for comparative analysis to note that they are both simply BAD in many, many ways.
The false equivalence argument is absolutely legitimate and applicable here.
And maybe you should make a rudimentary spreadsheet because it would prove my point.
Your Glenn quote has nothing to do with my comment.
And maybe you should make a rudimentary spreadsheet because it would prove my point.
ROFLMAO. You make an assertion then can’t even do your own work to prove it. Classic.
Pedinska, if you wanted me to back my assertion, all you had to do was ask, silly!
So I’ll call your bluff. Provide me with four topical areas: trustworthiness, temperament, knowledge, foreign policy, national security, taxes, domestic issues, anything else you can think of.
Your choice! And then we can discuss who is more competent and test my false-equivalence claim.
Your reading comprehension continues. I wrote:
One doesn’t need to set up a spreadsheet for comparative analysis to note that they are both simply BAD in many, many ways.
It’s not about competence. It’s about the fact that both choices will come with significant deleterious effects. BOTH. And we, as voters, are able and willing in increasing numbers to reject that whole disingenuous and corrupt framing of the situation.
You keep insisting that I address your false equivalence accusation. No. Nope. Sorry. That frame is, itself, illegitimate. I don’t have to play that game. Neither do any of the folks who, like me, are tired of it and are taking our votes elsewhere.
Trump is so obviously a dirt bag, but he doesn’t try and hide it, doesn’t try to convince anyone that he is anything but. Clinton, OTOH, is trying to have it all ways, trying to convince everyone that she’s on their side, that she’s everyone’s perfect president and is clearly deceiving all of us. Neither of them is acceptable, but Trump isn’t even trying to be.
Is his self-acceptance as a dirt-bag supposed to have some redeeming value?
How do you listen to this audio and conclude that. If she was trying to be on everybody’s side, she’d be constantly contradicting herself. There are issues on which she’s changed course – TPP and gay marriage come to mind – but in moderation that is pretty standard political fare.
She may be deceiving you, but not I. She’s been in politics too long to be some hidden authoritarian. She’s a centrist, with a bad knack for interventionism. I’ll take that 7 days of the week over Trump.
She may be deceiving you, but not I. She’s been in politics too long to be some hidden authoritarian. She’s a centrist, with a bad knack for interventionism. I’ll take that 7 days of the week over Trump.
She isn’t deceiving any of the people you so regularly take to task here, in spite of your manipulation of the context of what people are actually saying. Her authoritarianism isn’t hidden at all. She has her own little hit list, you know. Yes, your “centrist” paragon of womanly virtue keeps an enemies list and puts it into play every chance she gets.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/hillary-clinton-hit-list-102067
The only reason you and a whole host of other people are choosing her over Trump is that her interventionism’s costs aren’t direct in your life. The innocent men, women and children her actions have killed are not (yet) from your family. The increasingly extreme percentage of the budget that goes to killing these people hasn’t (yet) impeded your ability to scrape together the money to feed, house and clothe the ones you love. The police violence fed by her and her husband’s policies hasn’t (yet) taken someone you love away from you. Or (yet) labeled them a “predator”. But it will. Because their policies aren’t sparing anyone in this country from impact, it’s just taking longer to get to your white, male, middle-class world. Your abject, blinkered cowardice, and/or stunted moral reasoning, places fear of the consequences of Trump’s unknowns to your own shrinking personal sphere of influence over the stark reality of the damage the Clinton’s have demonstrably wrought throughout the world.
You can marinate in that poisonous shit if you want, but don’t expect the rest of us to lend any credence to your bleatings about “false equivalences”. Meh. :-s
Her hit-list doesn’t make her an authoritarian but just a petty politician who holds grudges.
Oh, that’s why I choose her over Trump!? You’re clueless. Her interventionism is among one of the reasons why I caucused for Bernie. Well, he lost. I’m not wasting my vote on a third party candidate or a write-in when the stakes are this high. If I had to pick a candidate solely on Clinton’s versus Trump’s foreign policies, I’d still go with Hillary. Her interventionist streak is based on lessons learned from Rwanda and Bosnia. Trump’s view is that if we are going to invade countries, we need to treat it like a transaction where we get paid in oil.
But that’s just one facet of the reason I choose Clinton over Trump. Here’s many other reasons that she’s better:
* Temperament
* Knowledge
* Experience
* She has actual plans and a vision
* Her tax plan
* Her views on health insurance
* Her views on women’s choice
* She wouldn’t be an international embarrassment
* She isn’t a xenophobe and a borderline racist.
* She didn’t perpetuate a lie that Obama was a foreigner.
There are so many more.
Is Bill running for a third term?
Ha, this isn’t about my influence, don’t distract from the main point. Trump’s unknowns are scaring the hell out of a lot of people. The consequences for Clinton’s support for Libyan intervention pales in comparison to the possibility of Trump acting on his “Wall,” banning Muslims, killing the families of enemies, suing journalistic institutions, and insulting adversaries. He is unfit to serve as President and his unknowns are much more frightening than Hillary’s knowns. There are so many journalists out there making this point, but they’re part of the dastardly MSM, so they don’t matter! Chew on this Pedinska
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/09/29/dont-vote-for-donald-trump-editorial-board-editorials-debates/91295020/
“The only reason you and a whole host of other people are choosing her over Trump is that her interventionism’s costs aren’t direct in your life. The innocent men, women and children her actions have killed are not (yet) from your family……” Pedinska
“Yes, the core commentariat here is smart, well-informed..” Mona
Are you included in the “core commentariat” ? Such a generalization would not be considered as “smart” in the eyes of the reasonable individuals. Anyway, let’s unpack your suggestion:
“The only reason you and a whole host of other people are choosing her over Trump is that her interventionism’s costs aren’t direct in your life.”
What if we pick a host of people who will be directly affected by the policies of the next US president: the Syrians living in Aleppo.
1) Donald Trump does not want Muslims immigrants and definitely no Syrian refugees
2) Gary Johnson does not know what Aleppo is
3) Jill Stein running mate considers Assad the legitimately elected president of Syria and his atrocities are “formented ” by the US.
4) Clinton? I assume you already know her views on Syria and Syrian refugees.
You present yourself as somebody who knows the “only reason” a voter would pick Clinton instead of Trump. Maybe you should tell us why a Syrian American with families running away from Aleppo would pick Clinton.
Are you included in the “core commentariat” ?
I have no idea. My aspirations in life aren’t bound to the places on the internet where I post comments, so that really isn’t a matter I spend fussing about.
Such a generalization would not be considered as “smart” in the eyes of the reasonable individuals.
I don’t know how I’ll ever live with the shame. :-s
My self-esteem isn’t wrapped up in popularity contests. Wasn’t interested in such things when I was actually a teenager so I’m certainly not giving a single fuck about them now. And I’m pretty sure that your definition of “reasonable person” doesn’t line up with mine, so their considerations are in the null fuck zone too. They are what they are.
You present yourself as somebody who knows the “only reason” a voter would pick Clinton instead of Trump.
You’re right. I should have said,
The rest of that paragraph reads just fine as is. Syrians were – admittedly a bit vaguely, no sleight intended at all – included in this bit,
so that I could reference the broader ramifications of Clinton policy choices around the entire world.
Thanks for pointing those things out.
“My aspirations in life aren’t bound to the places on the internet where I post comments, so that really isn’t a matter I spend fussing about.”
Hard to believe considering your relationship and your defense of your pal Mona.
“Wasn’t interested in such things when I was actually a teenager so I’m certainly not giving a single fuck about them now.”
Hard to believe considering the energy and the obsenity that particular comment elicited from you.
“The rest of that paragraph reads just fine as is. Syrians were – admittedly a bit vaguely, no sleight intended at all – included in this bit”
Your pal Mona decides what constitutes “smart” here. So, I am sure she will define your dodging as an intelligent move. However, as you have suggested, you will have to redefine “reasonable individuals” to avoid the embarassment of explaining to yourself why the American families of Syrian refugees would vote Clinton instead of any other candidates.
Allow me to make a small change in your sentence:
“The innocent men, women and children who are running from the atrocities of the war she intends to receive in the US are not (yet) from your family”
As disappointing as it is for me, a believer that one day we may devise a hybrid financial system that treats some aspects of the economy (which has and always will be the driving force of all political activity) as socialist endeavors (prisons, schools, healthcare) while treating others as truly free markets, I understand Secretary Clinton’s point.
Madison describes in the Fedralist Papers that the great number of factions within society (all beholden to various principles and having so many different incentives) would for a time hold a nation at an equilibrium that might bring the greatest prosperity to the most number of people. All the framers were weary any such equilibrium could be obtained for any substantial period of time, but a balance was seen as optimal.
We need Bernie and we need Hillary… and as crazy as it may sound we may even need Trump. Now hear me out! Political economies are pendulums constantly swinging. Sometimes, like now, that pendulum is stuck on plutocracy (read Plutarch’s account of the fall of Rome).
It just may take a Donald Trump presidency for the ignorant amongst us (sadly, most Americans) to realize just how asinine, out of touch, and totally beholden to corporate interests our government actually is.
These interests, not our own (see the Princeton social sciences study finding the US voter has a net zero effect on any policy decisions) that dictate the terms of trade deals, law, and have a vast effect on culture and public opinion. This real world power enables them to do what Noam Chomsky has always called Manufacturing Consent.
The even slightly intelligent person sees all this and is left virtually hopeless in its wake. What can be done to alter the opinion of a person that believes the earth is only 10,000 years old( 60% of all Americans according to Psychology Today)? This leads to what the famous sociologist Emile Durkheim calls social anomie: suicides done in times of vast social change because those individuals aren’t able to affect any meaningful change in their lives and thus decide not to go on (strong correlation to the prescription drug epidemic as well).
Government programs such as space exploration once gave humanity hope. Goals we collectively strived for. And despite its critics who claim that the money could have been better invested in social programs, I believe that setting out to accomplish great and stupendous feats of human achievement is likely the most valuable social program we can offer.
These activities set our collective sights on something so much greater then ourselves, and in turn provide us with the motivation to strive for the betterment of society (too often these energies have been directed toward wars). It does not encourage the self-centered instant-gratification that the culture of materialism (which may as well be a synonym for individualism), that we’ve seen grow and thrived over the last 40 years and is now taking over the American psyche, preaches.
I suppose I digress, but to Hillary’s point, we do need centrists, but we need radicals more; the types of radicals that demand justice for wrongs done by the powerful; that stand and shout despite the way the so called main stream folks might think of them; the types of radicals that hold humanity above patriotism; that strive to right the wrongs of history. At least those are the people I admire most.
I happen to be a veteran. I was the treasurer and I am a member of the American Legion, as was my grandfather. One of the most important things I take from the legion is right there in their mission statement: “to make right the master of might”. This core principle is to me the cornerstone of what America stands for, or at least what it’s supposed to stand for. To form a more perfect union and all that.
In closing, we all must continue to strive for a more cohesive, inclusive, and fact-respecting population. Everything we say and do impacts those around us and that effect ripples out across our world, and I know how that sounds but I don’t care, it’s true. Do right and make it the master of might!
One!
Forget about whoever opponent(s) are for a second and just tell me what and why is the great benefit to having Her be the next president. I don’t see anything reporting on this or even giving examples of what she will tackle etc. It’s all so obviously discusting to me. Just my opinion but would help if Michaal Bloomberg could offer up his opponion of WHY on a candidate rather than WHY NOT on one.
As disappointing as it is for me, a believer that one day we may devise a hybrid financial system that treats some aspects of the economy (which has and always will be the driving force of all political activity) as socialist endeavors (prisons, schools, healthcare) while treating others as truly free markets, I understand Secretary Clinton’s point.
Madison describes in the Fedralist Papers that the great number of factions within society (all beholden to various principles and having so many different incentives) would for a time hold a nation at an equilibrium that might bring the greatest prosperity to the most number of people. All the framers were weary any such equilibrium could be obtained for any substantial period of time but a balance Was seen as optimal.
We need Bernie and we need Hillary… and as crazy as it may sound we may even need Trump. Now hear me out! Political economies are pendulums constantly swinging. Sometimes, like now, that pendulum is stuck on plutocracy (read Plutarch’s account of the fall of Rome).
It just may take a Donald Trump presidency for the ignorant amongst us (sadly, most Americans) to realize just how asinine, out of touch, and totally beholden to corporate interests our government actually is.
These interests, not our own (see the Princeton social sciences study finding the US voter has a net zero effect on any policy decisions) dictate the terms of trade deals, law, and have a vast effect on culture and public opinion. This real world power enables them to do what Chomsky has always called Manufacturing Consent.
The even slightly intelligent person sees all this and is left virtually hopeless in its wake. What can be done to alter the opinion of a person that believes the earth is only 10,000 years old( 60% of all Americans according to Psychology Today)? This leads to what the famous sociologist Emile Durkheim calls social anomie: suicides done in times of vast social change because the individuals aren’t able to affect any meaningful change in their lives.
Government programs such as space exploration once gave humanity hope. Goals we collectively strived for. And despite its critics who claim that the money could have been better invested in social programs, I believe that setting out to accomplish great and stupendous feats of human achievement is the most valuable social program we can offer.
These activities set our collective sights on something so much greater then ourselves, and in turn provide us with the motivation to strive for the betterment of society. It does not encourage the self-centered instant-gratification that the culture of materialism, which has grown and thrived over the last 40 years and is now taking over the American psyche, preaches.
I suppose I digress, but to Hillary’s point, we do need centrists, but we need radicals more; the types of radicals that demand justice for wrongs done by the powerful; that stand and shout despite the way the so called main stream folks might think of them; the types of radicals that hold humanity above patriotism; that strive to right the wrongs of history. At least those are the people I admire most.
I happen to be a veteran. I was the treasurer and I am a member of the American Legion, as was my grandfather. One of the most important things I take from the legions is right there in their mission statement: “to make right the master of might”. This core principle is to me the cornerstone of what America stands for, or at least what it’s supposed to be. To form a more perfect union and all that.
In closing, we all must continue to strive for a more cohesive, inclusive, and fact-based population. Everything we say and do impacts those around us and that effect ripples out across our world. I know how that sounds but don’t care, it’s true. Do right and make it the master of might!
One!
I’m okay with this. :-)
I mean, she’s not wrong. Everyone genuinely believes that they’re gonna have some high paying 100k+ a year job and be famous with their c- 2.1 GPA at some random , not even mid-tier University. Of course these “students” are gonna gravitate towards an old man screaming revolution left and right.
I happen to be a student, hoping my community college education will get me a $30k per year job. And I backed Sanders, but not for anything I would get physically. Sanders opposed Iraq. That alone makes him superior to most of the Republicans. I wanted a candidate I could trust. I wanted one who was not corrupt. I wanted one who would end needless entanglements and needless wars. Sadly, he let me down after endorsing the woman who stole the election from him, much like what happened to John McCain in 2000.
I am getting my (community) college paid for through federal, state and local aid, but I would gladly drop it and have to pay through what I make from my job at a fast food place if it meant that we would not have to deal with Clinton’s bellicose, catastrophic and disastrous foreign policy. Who knows? If we simply end the new cold war, refuse to provide arms and support to Islamist terrorists and neo-Nazis, go RICO on law-breaking banks, and slash corporate welfare, we would have billions that we could spend on free college, infrastructure repairs, health care, or simply paying off our Federal debt. We’d have a better country and a safer world.
It is so sad that we have Trump and Clinton to pick a president from. What an awful choice either way.
Yours is a false dichotomy
which has been promoted by the faking democrats and the faking republicans.
I voted for Jill Stein today.
Leave the sadists and look for something better.
Bernie is delusional at best.
So far, Jill is not a phony.
So, in other words, you voted for Donald Trump today.
If a generation of people are living in their parent’s basements it is only due to people like her and Donald Trump, whose actions or inactions perpetuated the situations that led to the recession. I think an apology is in order for such an ignorant statement. Unfortunately, I still have to vote for her as not voting is just another vote cast for Donald Trump and I’m not ready for Armageddon just yet.
Clinton is a lying POS. End of story.
She OCCUPIES center left to center right — as in that is the field she must appeal to, in order to get shit done…
Because regardless of what everyone wants there is a thing called COMPROMISE.
Why so many stupids?
People read way too much into everything … I thought what she said sounded totally sensible and echoes how I feel. Bernie supporters – did you really think Congress would pass Free College Education for all? They are still arguing over the Affordable Care Act. /rme … Stop looking for the worst in everyone, that’s what brought Trump to popularity in the first place.
Wow, this was very eye opening. Pretty terrible that I might have to vote for this woman.
As more and more ‘information’ comes forth, I find myself concerned about the ‘early voting’ trend. To me it is voting with only a 1/2 loaf of knowledge…
It’s good to hear there are still adults in the room.
http://costcomment.blogspot.com/2016/02/political-sphere.html
Here’s Hillary describing humoring young folks for thinking they can make things better.
If we vote for Hillary or Trump, they will take our vote as a confirmation that we buy what they are selling. Sorry Hillary and Trump, you are not in my budget. Also, I do not want to confirm you as my choice for president, and will not give you the honor or privilege to claim confirmation of my approval. We deserve better than you. Without you we will make things better.
It is the will of the people that determines what’s possible, not politicians. Our actions determine what we deserve, and we deserve what we accept.
Center left, center right, all over the place.
How to be in two places at once?
She is more and more like an egotistical delusional sociopath.
What?!!
That is Trump you say?!!
I’m glad that I voted for Jill Stein today.
She is more and more like an egotistical delusional sociopath.
sure is. just like her friend lloyd
https://theintercept.com/2016/08/26/clinton-foundation-spin/
Hey, Hillary, I’m a white millennial barista who despises you. But notice this –
An interview with Glen Ford from Black Agenda Report:
New Poll Suggests Black Millennials Are Rejecting the Two Party Duopoly
Hillary, Former Secretary of State, Former Senator, Former First Lady/co-President42, operates at the highest degree of chameleon hood, reflecting whatever it takes to beg, borrow, and steal enough votes to be elected. She’ll take care of those “Bernie bros” and “basket of deplorables” later.
Her record attests how she will deal with opposition, it won’t be nice. Anyone who believes anything out of her mouth, on the record or in a private conversation, is self delusional and a danger to themselves and others. There’s no other politician who has such an extensive and scarlet history of bad judgement, misspeaking, changing positions, omitting and obfuscating. Either she’s guilty of some fraction of the myriad charges against her or she’s the most maligned human being ever born and is THE female messiah no less.
Julian Assange says “1,700 emails in Hillary Clinton’s collection” proves she sold weapons to ISIS in Syria. He likens her election to setting demons loose upon the world. She looks barely able to constrain herself now from consuming those seriously in her way, that cackle she let out at Gaddafi’s murder and Libya’s destruction was just a minor demon chortling at her handiwork.
Hillary center left/center right? That is the space she’s attempting to occupy, but she’s on a trajectory to the center of where it’s hotter than a drought in Texas in August. I hope she doesn’t get to drag the country down with her in her sickly compulsion avarice and greed to be head ruler of the world. It will be an honor just to cast a vote against her no matter how fruitless it may turn out to be.
A most thoughtful and profound assessment.
You paint a picture that should be obvious to everyone.
Her allegiance to kissinger and nettinyahu and ambitions to subjugate America to the TPP TTIP TISA are truly frightening, it’s like eva braun stepping in to take a turn.
And selling weapons to every despotic group she can get a donation from is beyond insane.
What students do not seem to realise is that her position on student loans is exactly what wallstreet wants her to enforce.
In short, Hellary is so evil she scares the devil.
Which, for all intents and purposes, will be a vote FOR Donald Trump. If enough of you insist on taking such a reckless action, it may not turn out to be as “fruitless” as u think. The ‘fruit’ such a consequence will bear, however, is poisonous to all humanity. It’s completely understandable why some folks, a lot of folks, are hesitant, to say the least, about Hillary Clinton. But this is not the time for a “protest vote”. The possible repercussions are too enormous to risk. One of two ppl are going to win: Clinton or Trump. A vote for anyone other than Hillary Clinton is a vote for Donald Trump. With the polls so close, that is a very dangerous game to play. If Trump becomes president, it’s not just a few years of craziness you’re going to have to worry about. It all comes down to three words: The Supreme Court. With an empty seat currently in the Court, whoever fills it decides in which direction the Court will ‘lean’. If Trump is president, he will surely nominate ultra-conservative, far right-leaning judges, which will be a catastrophe for human rights, especially the LGBT community and women. Judge Ginsberg is getting quite old. If she leaves the Court, that could mean terrible, overwhelming consequences of epic proportions, severely polarizing the SCOTUS for generations. Do you so-called “millennials” get that, like, at all? If you do, then please, just stop it. You may not be crazy about Hillary, but are you crazy?
Sadly, I think it has to get a lot worse in order for it to start getting better. The majority of the American public is uninformed and apathetic . They need a real wake-up call and maybe trump would be it. He’ll obviously fail miserably and do some very dangerous things, and then maybe Americans will see. Also, if you live in a solidly red or blue state it likely won’t matter who you vote for anyway so why not, and I hate to quote Ted Cruz, but vote your conscience ?
Honestly, these comments make me more inclined to vote for Hillary than less. She’s right about why a lot of people (myself included) supported Sanders and his ideas. The economy has failed us, and it would be nice for the government to more towards more socialist inclinations.
Additionally, I think it’s a surprise to absolutely no one that Hillary’s a centrist. We’ve known this for a while. The real question is whether her center is where we want it to be. I’d say yes, at least tentatively.
Well, at last count, I guess that makes this reason #513 why I will not vote for Hillary Clinton. And anybody who says, “well that’s a vote for Trump” is entitled to their opinion, and I say in response–“fuck off”. When you want to start chastising the 40% of America for being staunchly Republican, and willing voting for someone like Trump when I won’t, then maybe the problem isn’t me, but Republicans and the Democratic Party foisting someone like Hillary Clinton on me as my choice.
The Democratic Party establishment rallied around Hillary Clinton instead of Bernie Sanders and if you lose some voters who are otherwise ideological allies, then so be it. I don’t want to the see the world burn under a Trump presidency, but I also understand how American politics and economics work so I actually believe that while it might be a huge setback for some, including me, I’d rather fight the enemy I know openly than get stabbed in the back repeatedly by a nominal “ally” like Hillary and Bill Clinton and the fucking neoliberal war hawk jag offs she will appoint to her “centrist” cabinet.
Oh that’s right. Didn’t you once say you are hispanic?
I too will be voting the ‘3rd’ way…..
well said
i hope the entire country can see and understand the difference you point out.
This is a bit ominous for Mrs. Clinton. Her rival, Mr. Trump, occupies the extreme left to the extreme right. So it is puzzling that Mrs. Clinton would confine herself to such a narrow ideological band. The price one pays for ideological purity is failure at the polls.
I’m yet to meet an actual lefty who is voting trump? Stein out Johnson a few, buy no trumpers
Benito is being facetious.
There is no such thing as a true leftist, but according to Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post, Trump is a left-wing crank on economics.
That’s because being an open Trump supporter with liberal friends is social suicide.
Well I know many lefties who are voting for Trump. People I know people are voting for Trump, Clinton or Stein. I would estimate 40%, 40% and 20%. One thing we all have in common, no one is happy with our choices.
Millennials reciprocate Hillary Clinton’s disdain for them and their progressive values. In 2008, 74% told Gallup they were definitely going to vote; in 2016 that’s only 47%. Only the 55+ cohort plans to vote in the same numbers.
For anyone interested in what young Hillary would say to Presidential candidate Hillary, take a look at her 1969 student commencement speech at Wellesley College where she began by countering the then Senator, Edward Brooke, who had just finished speaking to the crowd in favor of incrementalism and against the burgeoning anti-war protests on campuses across the America:
“Part of the problem with just empathy with professed goals is that empathy doesn’t do us anything. We’ve had lots of empathy; we’ve had lots of sympathy, but we feel that for too long our leaders have viewed politics as the art of the possible. And the challenge now is to practice politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible possible. What does it mean to hear that 13.3 percent of the people in this country are below the poverty line? That’s a percentage. We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction. How can we talk about percentages and trends? The complexities are not lost in our analyses, but perhaps they’re just put into what we consider a more human and eventually a more progressive perspective.”
47 years later, and we’re at 14.5% below the poverty line. But how can we talk of percentages or trends?
Damn this makes me want to vote for her more than anything she has ever done. Still won’t because you know Iraq, Libya, Syrian “Rebels”, should be disqualifying
I’ll be voting for Jill Stein, who is proudly left-wing but still respects civil liberties and human rights. The best of both worlds.
Damn straight. Jill 2016: Because not being a corporatist, militarist and imperialist really does matter.
Hillary didn’t set small, incremental goals for milking foreign countries & US corporations out of millions of dollars; she was balls in.
I’m voting Green. Jill is the only candidate left standing who isn’t in it for boosts to her ego or her bank account. I’m ready for our government to represent me instead of exclusively those with money.
If Canada, Great Britain, Germany, France, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Japan, Israel and other countries can figure out a way to guarantee Single Payer health care then so can the United States.
The only catch is that in order to do so the insurance corporations will have to be cut out of the deal and all our imperialistic war-making and Neocon “regime changes” will have to stop.
Maybe if we could get that $38 billion back from Israel they have been promised over ten years that would get us off to a good start with a Medicare for ALL health care system.
But with Trump or Clinton there is zero chance of seeing a Medicare for All health care system because one candidate is too busy kissing the Council on Foreign Relations ass to help deliver a New World Order even if it takes a hot war with Russia to get there and the other just wants to “repeal the ACA and replace it with health savings accounts” when most can’t pay their rent or buy food for their kids.
Hillary Clinton tells one more lie.
Par for the course.
They also have economies based on trade liberalization and in the nordic model, they have lower corporate taxes and other features that would be described as “republican” in America. Sorry to burst your bubble.
“whatever that means”
She is a progressive Wall Street coddling warmonger.
Anything Wall Street and the war machine doesn’t need or want can achieve progress.
And we all know they aren’t needy or greedy, so there should be plenty of leftovers.
Oh, and dogs love fireworks.
per-copitulation to the neo-liberal agenda.
What utter nonsense from Clinton, as always. She is a right-wing extremist as borne out by her record. And her condescension toward young voters, telling them to lower their standards to achieve what SHE deems possible, is as always highly insulting.
She gives us young people hope… hope that she goes away.
“Now, children, don’t go getting ideas above your station. Nothing good can come of that.”
IMO center left or center right or whatever Hillary means is right and at times far right in many other counties…….
If you don’t have aspirations you will never go anywhere.
If you refuse to entertain the dreams of others, then you are stuck in your own rut. But you really shouldn’t be surprised when people who aren’t in as fortunate a rut as you dream of, aspire and work to achieve something different and better. And then tell you to go fuck yourself for putting limits on them.
Also, see:
Hillary Clinton the hawk, and the Honduran coup – Mehdi Hasan’s Reality Check (Video – 3 minutes)
She is so center right and left establishment.
Great comments on Hillary’s status quo bullshit from others downstream. Just slightly off but goes to the comments about Sweden. Paul Krugman had a brilliant column bashing claims how the democratic socialist model in Sweden failed as compared to the state of Mississippi I think it was. People in MS had higher average incomes. Until Krugman pointed out, you eliminated the extreme outliers of a few very rich people. When the extremes of wealth are removed, Swedes have higher average income.
Krugman went on and did similar comparisons with vacation time, longevity, etc. That is the old Krugman.
I wonder what he would make of his spirited defense of Sweden with Hillary’s bashing of the country to defend essentially the corrupt crony capitalism we live under with our fellow Americans falling into premature deaths and life long marginalization.
It’s really sad to see Krugman kiss up to Clinton, for a job in her administration presumably.
Anyone who knows anything about the Clintons knows she is a pragmatic centrist. She stated she is a pragmatic centrist. She occupies the whole center- from the left to the right of the center. How is this a controversial statement?
The only kind of lefty worse than one who is willing to compromise her values to support Clinton is one willing to betray her values by enabling a proto-fascist victory by Trump. Hitler was enabled to power by the Socialist Party in 1932. You all are the same type of assholes bashing Clinton while the most unfit candidate for power since Caligula is poised to win the Presidency.
People like you have finally convinced me that I am not a progressive. If this is progressivism you all can keep it. It reminds me of the weirdo losers who called themselves Communists when I was a kid in the 1980s- professional losers.
That’s an understandable position for someone who sees herself as the center of the universe.
Ah, Hillary… True story: Obama is endorsing someone who will be even more of a murderous warmonger than he is.
Hillary Clinton Leaves Her Controversial ISIS-Fighting Strategy Out Of Monday’s Debate
Hellary Clinton is patently insane.
She has probably been insane for a very long time.
She advocated the attack on Libya, helped her wallstreet thieves get the tons of gold there, made deals for weapons there to give ISIS a boot start, got the pentagon and cia to fund opposite sides at our expense, sold weapons to contributors of her bullshit global front, told america one thing and the fbi another and managed to lie to both, and continues to lie to the public about her relationship with wallstreet and netanyahu.
Hellary Clinton actually holds the patent on insanity.
There must be some generals filling Clinton’s head with MORE shit.
The Russians are no push overs. They won WWII, not the allies. We had 10 divisions fighting the Nazis, the Russians had 100 divisions. And they defeated the Nazis, with allies on the western front. Clinton is dangerous, because her notions of American “exceptionalism” will get us into a war that nobody can win. The Russians are working on submarine drones that can hit US coastal cities. Look at a map. How many major US cities are on the coasts? How many major Russian ones.
Submarines are the most lethal machines of war, because they often can get to their target area undetected. Does that clown Clinton know any of this? Does she care? I’ll be voting Jill Stein as soon as early voting opens in my state. Killary, Shrillary is a menace. And some apparently somewhat sane people will vote for her because the fear mongering is working on the sheeple.
Trump only exists to ensure that Hillary will get elected no matter what. It’s what her corporate puppet masters want and even this publication has posted photos of them being buddy buddy.
Sanders was the only real person in this whole circus and he got fucked hard by the DNC at Hillary’s behest and on her paymaster’s dime.
The only thing the Queen left out was the now-classic dodge “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”
You know what? It doesn’t matter an iota. I just watched her “shimmy song video” and I am now certain they will crown her -for sure. I mean, making THAT woman look THAT way is pure abracadabra and we’re neatly fed it.
She’ll get that presidency and we won’t even learn about what she’s actually doing around the world. That is the state of news outlets today. I don’t even mention the people pulling her strings. We plebs don’t have much say anymore.
Good to see that Hillary as always is the only grown up in the room.
A consummate politician! Trying to be in the messy middle with zero personal values. Say whatever the group in front of you wants to hear.
Snake oil salesmen would point to their elixir as a cure all, just as Hellary points to her record as a symbol of her prescription.
Con men or women all act the same, pretend to be authoritative while stealing you blind. Hellary for jail!
I would still like to read the transcripts of Hillary’s speeches to Goldman Sachs before the election.
I am sure they would be even more revealing than Donald’s tax returns.
I wonder if she is still “thinking about releasing them”??
Perhaps someone at the upcoming Townhall can ask her?!
Ha.
it HAS to be about 2 things –
1. student loans.
2. TPP TPIP TISA
gold sackers operate like organised crime. They want to dominate the world with their currency scheme because the well is running dry in the US aka they need another pool of targetable victims. And owning people’s futures is the next best scam by her monster friends. After all, she is the monster’s mother.
Hillary is at heart a lefty but she is not the malignant narcissist sort of lefty you find in Jill Stein and Ralph Nader, two people who have almost never held public office and have not a clue as to how to run a town of a population over 5,000 let alone the country. These two mega-asshats are easily as delusional and even less experienced then their counterpart on the right, Sarah Palin. Hillary knows this is a big, diverse country, and only a malignant narcissist would imagine that you can get elected simply by spouting lefty policy. She is brilliant, an amazing human being, as is Bill. I hope that she pulls this off, becomes president and moves the liberal movement forward. She’s all heart which is why I’m suspicious that she will be taken down by the cold hearted on the right and the left.
Ah, Revise the Record has sent you back here — is Karen coming, too? You’re no better at this hackery than you were before.
she’s perfect.
Your ignorance is extraordinary.
Thanks, Jimmy! I showed your post to my other half, who was on the fence, and she’s decided to vote for Jill too!
Keep up the good work!
Politicians and oligarchs who openly and arrogantly claim they “know how to run” things, as you put it, collaborated to tank the U.S. economy. Stein seems like a humble, imperfect leader who wants the job for the right reasons. It’s just politics baby, but yeah, your argument sucks.
Well, you’ve certainly drank the Hillary Kool-Aid.
“She’s all heart. . .”
Yeah, the heart of a stone-cold killer.
Yeah, she’s “all heart.”
She’s a sociopath. On Gaddafi she giggledas she said this:
She is brilliant, an amazing human being, as is Bill.
Yes, Bill, the mazing human Clenis.
http://www.vice.com/read/why-bill-clintons-scandals-still-matter
By move the “liberal movement” forward, you probably meant further right. After all, Hillary Clinton now has dozens of prominent Republicans backing her (The Washington Post has been keeping track).
The only asshats I see are people like you who are willing to destroy democratic elections and free political speech and association for the sake of a few pieces of silver and The Party’s continued reign. #DemocraticPartyIsINGSOC
Ralph Nader has done more for people than bill and Hillary combined.
id rather have a person with little experience than a person with a ton of experience in regime change and more unnecessary warfare. the president isn’t a dictator, they have congress to work with, they have their cabinet to work with. I’m sure virtually anyone who is staunchly anti-war would be a better candidate for office than hillary or trump.
ji-mee ji-mee ji-mee
you have returned with your pom-poms and your skirt is looking shorter.
Hellary’s heart is in weapons sales and betraying Americans with the help of her thieving wallstreet predators who are looking for another round of fraud – this time student loans – big market. And currency trading fraud on a global scale with the TPP TPIP TISA.
last time we talked i recommended you go back to school. instead, you prefer to skip school and get a job parroting propaganda from who, debbie wasserman schultz? Your lack of knowledge of relationship makes me wonder if you and your family “really” get along but i suspect you all just follow some rules and pretend to. SHALLOW.
The Political Compass is a neat idea for having a common frame of reference for where the “center” is:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
The above link shows a graph that includes Stein, Johnson, Clinton, and Trump. I personally think they gave Clinton too much credit for rhetoric and not enough weight to her record, but you get the idea.
Scroll to the bottom of the page to see a graph of where they put Sanders, Clinton, and Republicans during the primary (and notice they moved Clinton).
You can take their test to find out where you are on this compass. I came about about a -9,-9.
Nice link! I came in at about -7, -7.
I’ll still vote for Jill Stein, even though she’s in the right wing authoritarian quadrant of our left wing libertarian quadrant, lol. :)
-10/-9.3
I’m pretty sure that means I’m officially hopeless.
I’m pretty far on the left-libertarian side of the spectrum myself, which is probably why I ended up joining the Green Party a few years ago.
Economic Left/Right: -7.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.41
Some of those questions, I quibbled with the wording, and my answer would be different if it was tweaked. A few I just haven’t sufficiently thought through.
I didn’t listen to any of it but reading it – she is a parity of herself there is not an ounce of commitment in anything she says – she will likely win which could lead to nuclear disaster. She is seriously dangerous and Obama is serving her up China and Russia encircled ant THAAD going into South Korea huge armadas of arms and hundreds of nuclear weapons stationed on the periphery of both countries.
I don’t think anyone realizes wan great Imperial achievement to get India into the Neoliberal fold – that was probably his greatest achievement in office – from the Imperial perspective. A billion + market and now unfriendly to China and Russia completing the encirclement of China. Now India is going to get nuclear fuel which it does not need for civilian purposes. That was Obama’s calling card. Proliferation.
All that in her hands – terrifying indeed.
Just wait until Her Royal Highness names Samantha Power or Victoria Nuland to be Secretary of State.
The whole world should cringe at the very thought.
Aside from her mildly condescending comments about Bernie supporters living in their parents’ basement (I caucused for Bernie and dwell in my own basement thank you very much), I thought her comments were on-point.
Hers is a textbook pragmatist and gradualist approach to politics, similar to that of Obama.
Her description of the prerequisites to the “revolution” is pretty funny.
Just my occasional reminder that Nate is a fuckwit.
(Now back to ignoring this imbecile.)
While we’re on the subject of hacked e-mails, get a load of this hack
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-raises-crucial-issue-of-whether-reality-tv-scenes-count-as-sex-tapes/?comments=1#comment-288847
I am no Hillary fan, and I probably won’t vote for her…but I agree with you. Hers is a vision of what she sees as practical. But we’re never going to get the progress we need by constantly being practical and starting negotiations from the middle. We need a vision of a social democracy that works for all of our citizens and not be content with, largely, the status quo.
You’re not one of those experimental test tube babies are you? “pragmatist and gradualist” – wow, such profayshunall sounding lingo, and i’m supposed to suddenly want hellary because of that? hold on – lemme check – what’s this about Obama comparing the terrorist Shimona Peres to Nelson Mandella? So you’re saying that Lloyd Blankfein is like….. Jesus?
whatever driftwood you floated in on, dont lose it.
So, she eschew the Scandinavian model; sniffs, and declares: “half the people don’t know what that means.”
What horrors and/or unattainables does this “center-right” cretin think that model entails?
My take on her Scandinavian comments is that she herself does not know what that means. I more or less expect the knee-jerk followers of the Party to fail to comprehend the fact that there are ideas that work well in other countries, that might be tried here, but it is disheartening to see someone who ought to know better spouting that kind of arrogant ignorance. But I guess that her extensive travels abroad have not been educational; like the typical US tourist she is surrounded by fellow countrymen, never taking the opportunity to interact with the locals or learn anything firsthand about their cultures.
She’s such a condescending bitch.
“I want to be very clear about the progress I think we can make”
TPP, Damascus carpet bombed, US troops in Ukraine, full impunity for Wells Fargo, repeal of 9/11 lawsuit rights…
“I want to be very clear about the progress I think we can make,” she said.
__
The only progress any politician has ever made is to enrich themselves.
“It’s important to realize that whenever you give power to politicians or bureaucrats, it will be used for what they want, not for what you want.”
– Harry Browne
The people laughing when she says “…they’re living in their parents’ basements…” deserve to be shot off this planet on one of Elon Musk’s defective SpaceX rockets
As I recall, she also said all those kids (Berniebros) just wanted free stuff.
Her daughter and son-in-law went from college directly into jobs paying six and seven figure salaries. The country belongs to privileged elites like them and people from more ordinary backgrounds have far fewer opportunities. This is why young people aren’t connecting with her and she doesn’t understand that or pretends not to.
Yes, exactly.
I don’t see what’s wrong with what she said. Anyone who believed that voting in some wild-eyed socialist was going to get a Republican congress to become Lil Scandinavia was kidding themselves.
In today’s political climate, only incremental change is possible.
What’s possible is whatever the people decide is possible–once they do it in large enough and determined numbers. Once that momentum builds for progressive change, it’s the Demicans and Republicrats who’ll have to stop trying to crush it and go along or be replaced.
i dont think so, What a baited conjob.
Hellary occupied Nuttinyahu’s lap. She switched over to him after occupying Kissingerm’s lap. She never did occupy her husband’s lap. Her daughter does look more like Webster Hubbel. So whose lap does she occupy now?
https://theintercept.com/2016/08/26/clinton-foundation-spin/
ps- like the Nazis, Hellary clinton wants to toss the future earnings value and worthiness of students with loans into the ovens of wallstreet while also upping the cost of education in her bullshit affordability program to make the flames hotter.
Whose is a possessive pronoun. Who’s is a contraction for who is or who has. I try not to be grammar police on most sites but I would expect more from this one.
“I try not to be grammar police on most sites, (you forgot the comma here) but I would expect more from this one.”
I try not to be grammar police on most comment threads, but I would expect more from this one.
Clinton talking out of both sides of her mouth how surprising.