Raed al-Saleh says that before Syria’s civil war, he could never have imagined the position he is in today. A former electronics trader from the northwestern town of Jisr al-Shughour, Saleh, 33, is now head of the Syrian Civil Defense, a volunteer force dedicated to rescuing victims of bombings and shellings. The 3,000-member group, also known as the White Helmets, are first responders at the scenes of airstrikes by Russian and Syrian government forces, pulling survivors from the rubble of collapsed apartment buildings and homes.
Saleh spends most of his time between Turkey and opposition-held areas of northern Syria, but he is currently visiting the United States to promote the Civil Defense’s work as well as a new Netflix documentary about the group. Soft-spoken and reserved, Saleh expresses deep frustration over the civil war that upended his quiet life, thrusting him almost by accident into an extremely dangerous occupation. “Starting from 2011, after the government’s crackdown began, I started helping with humanitarian relief and the evacuation of wounded people in our area following attacks,” he told The Intercept during an interview in New York this week. “We got experience from this practical work and later received some training from a Turkish NGO. By 2013, we started to do search-and-rescue work after airstrikes, and that year created the Civil Defense.”
Raed al-Saleh, head of the Syrian Civil Defense group, also known as the White Helmets, during an interview in Berlin on March 22, 2015.
Photo: Bernd von Jutrczenka/AFP/Getty Images
But the attention the group has received has also made it a target of the Syrian government and the Russian forces that support it. In recent days, Russian airstrikes reportedly struck three Civil Defense headquarters in Aleppo, destroying one of the few lifelines available to civilians in the besieged city. “They are not happy that there is a success story in Syria that is receiving attention from the world,” says Saleh. “They are targeting us because we have become a critical source of information about what is happening in Aleppo. We document the attacks against civilian neighborhoods, and we pass the messages from the ground to the world.”
Civil Defense is one of the only aid organizations still operating in these bleak circumstances. For supporters of the Syrian government, the group, which has received funding from the U.S. Agency for International Development, has become the subject of lurid conspiracy theories, including accusations that it is part of a Western-orchestrated plot for regime change. Saleh is weary of these claims, saying that they are divorced from the reality of events in Syria. Civil Defense’s code of conduct includes a pledge of political neutrality, and the group rescues victims of bombings regardless of political persuasion.
“We are not asking for anything, except the implementation of the resolutions and agreements asking for an end to the indiscriminate bombings, besiegement, torture, and use of chemical weapons by the regime,” Saleh says. “We know that the resolutions to stop these things are not being implemented in Syria because there is no respect for them. There needs to be a political will to stop this catastrophe.”
The Syrian government has recently reiterated its intention to retake opposition-held areas of Aleppo by force. Too weak to accomplish this goal on its own, it has relied on Russian air support as well as ground forces supplied by regional allies. In the last few weeks, hundreds of civilians have reportedly been killed by strikes conducted by Russian and Syrian warplanes, which have been accused of indiscriminately targeting civilian areas of the city. An airstrike last week destroyed a humanitarian convoy organized by the Syrian Arab Red Crescent, killing at least 20 people in an attack that has been widely blamed on the Russian government. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has decried the attacks as likely war crimes, saying that the situation in Aleppo resembled a “slaughterhouse.”
Syrian Civil Defense volunteers carry a body after digging it out from under the rubble of a building following a reported airstrike in the northern city of Aleppo on July 23, 2016.
Photo: Karam Al-Masri/AFP/Getty Images
Saleh says that the work of the Civil Defense in Aleppo and elsewhere will continue despite the intensifying onslaught. Over 130 Civil Defense members have been killed in the line of duty since the organization was founded in 2013, including many who were killed in “double-tap” airstrikes intended to target rescuers. Though the civil war and his role in it have changed his life irrevocably, Saleh says that he and other Civil Defense members are driven to continue their work by religious conviction. The Civil Defense’s motto, “to save one life is to save all of humanity,” is adapted from a verse in the Quran.
“There are hundreds of thousands of people living in Aleppo under daily bombings,” Saleh says. “They do not have anyone else to call on for support, so we are willing to take any risk to provide it.”
Top photo: A member of the White Helmets carries a child to safety.
Rania Khalek reports:
Very, few advocates of a NFZ and /or staring down Russia are willing to, in public, realistically address the likely or possible outcomes. Maybe, as with Clinton, some do so in private? Do they think risking WWIII is acceptable?
All they do is spew about being “pro-Assad,” hypocrisy, and any other whataboutery, non sequiturs and ad hominems — never dealing forthrightly with what could reasonably be expected to be the result of implementing their positions. Never addressing that Russia sincerely believes — whether reasonably or not — that it has vital interests at stake in Syria.
This is insanity, and it’s the by-product of Hillary Clinton/her supporters’ long fear campaign to whip up anti-Russia hysteria , as well as those itching to challenge Russia in Syria. NBC: CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia.
That’s a “leak” also meant for Russia’s consumption. Because flirting with WWIII is so much fun.
In a thread about a human rights organization that has saved thousands of innocent lives in a country being bombed into oblivion by Russia and the Assad regime, the name “Blumenthal” comes up 115 times. This represents the hysteria of the radical anti-American left condemning the White Helmets because they are US-funded. In Yemen, it’s a completely different story with the sudden conversion of the extreme left to humanitarians. The death of every one of the 140 people killed at a funeral is heartfelt – because the Saudis used US bombs in the airstrike. If they used Russian bombs instead, it wouldn’t have even been a story in the Intercept let alone below the line.
Readers: 95% of the time I do not reply to authoritarian, pro-torture Republican Trump-voter Craig Summers. My replying caused other commenters to complain; when I reply to him then Craig posts massive walls of repetitive drivel in response. It pollutes the board.
Max Blumenthal: 25 minute interview preview on: the 2014 Gaza War, and Max’s investigative articles on Syria White Helmets and their ties to pro-war interventionists in the West.
Mona
Really Mona, can you stoop any lower than calling people who want the bombing campaign in Syria to end “pro-war”? If you support the idea of a no fly zone or a safe zone, are you pro war? There may be some things about a no fly zone that people don’t understand – but labeling people from the west that want to see this brutal bombing campaign In Aleppo by Russia and the Syrian regime stopped can hardly be labeled pro war.
Remember the children that you were so distraught over in Gaza from the Israeli bombing? Now you have dishonestly labeled the people who want a far worse bombing campaign to end as “pro-war”. Is there any end to the hypocrisy of the far left?
Readers: 95% of the time I do not reply to authoritarian, pro-torture Republican Trump-voter Craig Summers. My replying caused other commenters to complain; when I reply to him then Craig posts massive walls of repetitive drivel in response. It pollutes the board.
According to al-Jazeera (this morning):
“…….Since the Syrian army’s assault against rebel-held Aleppo began in late September, Russian and government bombardment has killed more than 370 people, including 68 children, according to an Observatory toll……Over the past three days, as many as 100 people have been killed in the raids, rescue workers said, as the air strikes and shelling of the city’s east intensified…….”
In an article in the New York Times this morning, drone pictures indicate the bombing campaign conducted by Russia and Assad in Aleppo can be compared to the total destruction of Grozny (by Russia) in the 90s and even Berlin during WWII>
Adding to the DN! Debate on White Helmets
At end of DN! interview the director clearly takes a shot at Assad & allies (a.k.a. Iran & Russia) when asked my Nermeen (quote below) about what would he like audiences to learn from it. His response seems pretty one-sided to me as he totally leaves out that this is a total proxy war b/w EU-US-Saudi/Gulf vs Assad-Russia-Iran. He says he want’s to cut thru thru the politics but then ends in politics.
However, I do find it amazing that some Syrians are switching weapons for stretchers. If the rebels had just never picked up the western guns in the first place, we’d likely not have needed the western helmets.
We can wipe our tears & cheer for the western-financed white helmets, but I still believe that this Syrian war could have long ago been minimized, just like Libya, but Obama & Co. had to fuel the rebels with arms.
Furthermore, I find it ironic that instead of a calling for a ceasefire in Yemen after the funeral bombing, the US directly enters the war. Again I ask, where are western funds for the white helmets in Yemen?
ORLANDO VON EINSIEDEL: Like I said at the start, I think the two things are, that we’d like people to take away from this, we’d like people to be able to watch a film about humanity, about real-life heroes, that cuts through the politics, and also to understand what’s happening to Syrian civilians who are experiencing a horrendous bombardment daily from the regime and from its allies.
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/13/the_white_helmets_as_syria_death
See today’s (Thursday’s) http://www.democracynow.org. Looks and sounds to me, incredibile dictu, like Amy & Co. have been pretty much completely taken in by the ‘White Helmets’ documentary, and lack any kind of critical perspective — a la Max Blumenthal. E.g., Who funds the training camp in Turkey (where, so far as I know, the public knows nothing of its existence)? Who (@ UK) has funded the documentary itself? Why no discussion of the Isis/Al Quaeda bloke who relished decapitating a 12-year-old kid on video, but now in a new incarnation seen to be sharing the company of these heroic White Helmet bros?
While I’ve not seen this particular segment, I very much doubt your assessment. Amy Goodman and Democracy Now! are virtually never “taken in” by anything. If today’s show was lacking Max’s (and my) perspective, that will appear in due course.
I think a former attorney like you would have been a lot more prudent had she first checked out the segment I drew attention to before expressing on the public record such profound doubt. Do see the affirmative comment below from William. I would very much hope that, within a few days, Amy & Co. might feature the scathing critiques of Max Blumenthal etc., but won’t believe that until I see it notwithstanding my huge respect and even reverence for AG. Meanwhile, Mona, you might like to go to rt.com, click on Shows, click on “Cross Talk”, scroll down to the archive below, and there watch for 25 minutes the discussion & debate aired last week re: the “White Helmets”, which is truly excellent. (All the best to you.)
I had neither: 1. the time, nor 2. the inclination. Democracy Now! in general, and Amy Goodman specifically, justly enjoy a fine reputation. Based on that reputation I very much doubt they have been “taken in” about the White Helmets.
But I agree with this:
I beg your pardon for being so pert but, myself, would consider just 20 minutes of your time better spent carefully watching the Amy-segment on which you’ve so hastily pronounced than the vast amount of time you spend on often enough incontinent polemics here at The Intercept, and especially so inasmuch as this ‘White Helmets’ business is manifestly a matter of particular concern to you. It makes me sad to observe that your unconditional acceptance of and reverence for what Amy & Co. have to present evidently constitutes, in your case, a stubborn mind-set. I myself have long revered AG (like GG, too!) as erudite, principled, and righteous; but that does not mean that, in a case like this, I consider her presentation of things beyond suitably informed skepticism & criticism. Assuming you are one & the same person as @MonaHolland, I see the journo Carlo Bonini has very recently tweeted you a couple of links to on-line discussions in this regard. If I were you, and please pardon me the presumption, I’d set aside just an hour or so to do some important homework. And meanwhile, be sure not to miss Nate Allen’s contribution to the discussion, above.
I was far from making any overall assessment of Amy Goodman’s integrity or veracity, forgodsakes, but a posteriori called into question her presentation of a particular segment which I (and others, by now) found to be uncritical. And, in effect, you yourself give countenance to such a critique in acknowledging that the profoundly adversarial Max Blumenthal viewpoint vis-a-vis these ‘White Helmets’ has yet to be considered conscientiously on Democracy Now. Nevertheless, in a shameless a priori spirit, i.e., without having even watched that segment, you seek to condemn my critique of that segment by disparaging it as being an outright impugnment of the righteousness and integrity of Amy & Co.. — My god, I’m relieved to reflect on how, during my 30 years in the heart of New York City, I never reached out to the likes of you for any legal advice or representation. But I guess I should now take some pleasure in seeing how someone of your age can so easily regress to the juvenile — oh that that might one day happen to a wrinkled old geezer like me. — C’mon Mona, forgodsakes, give us a break.
Yes, it was strictly an interview with the director of the Netflix film “The White Helmets” Orlando Von Einsiedel. Not much critical perspective during the interview. Mostly just clips from the film and commentary from Einsiedel.
Plus loads & loads of hype from his direction, I would say. Do see the latest video (some 20 mins.) @ thecorbettreport on the MSM & Syria, which briefly touches on the white helmeted heroes. I’m confident that Mona, too, would appreciate this.
Mona writes:
“……..A US government spokesperson has struggled to answer questions put to him on why the US condemns Russian bombing in Syria, and supports Saudi-led bombing in Yemen, both of which have killed thousands of civilians……”
You certainly did point out the hypocrisy of the US government’s position in Yemen versus Syria. When are you going to acknowledge your own Mona? Why do you condemn Israeli bombing in Gaza (with crocodile tears) and ignore Russian and Syrian bombing in Aleppo which have killed far more civilians including children?
Why does the article by Blumenthal deserve so much attention while you ignore the murderous bombing by Russia and the Assad regime? The hypocrisy of the radical left (including you) could not possibly be more stark. In an article published by the Middle East Eye, the British “Stop the War Coalition” refuses to protest at the Russian embassy against the catastrophic bombing by Russia in Syria and uses familiar arguments to give Russia a free pass (“UK anti-war group rejects protests against Russia’s war in Syria”; Oct. 12, 2016; Donaghy):
“……..“We do not want to contribute to the jingoism and hysteria that is being whipped up against Russia, because that hysteria is being used to try and justify an escalation of the British war effort,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme……..He said that if British politicians want to organise a protest they “know where the Russian embassy is”. He added that Stop the War would not take in any such rally……..“The reason for that is our focus is on what our government is doing,” he told Montague. “We can make a difference to what Britain does – we can make a difference to what our allies do to a certain extent – but if we have a protest outside the Russian embassy it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to what Putin does because we are in Britain and we are in the West.”…..”
Does this argument sound familiar (a la Greenwald, Chomsky)? In a separate article by MEE, Mark Boothroyd (founding member of Syria Solidarity UK) responds to the all too familiar and hypocritical position of the clearly anti-western/anti-American organization (“Left-wing activists slam Stop the War for refusing to protest against Russia”):
“…….the STWc position on Russia was “completely unprincipled”…….”It’s a betrayal of the principle they were founded upon, to oppose war, occupation, oppression – Syrians and solidarity activists have been calling on them for years to condemn these things,” he told Middle East Eye. “This refusal is a bit shocking, because normally they would try and say ‘yeah, we condemn it but we’re not going to do any action’, but to refuse to even demonstrate really shows which side they’re on in this.”……..Boothroyd dismissed the oft-repeated argument by coalition that they only targeted their own government’s actions as that was where they could apply leverage…….”Yes I think we should oppose Britain when it’s doing things which are not good for the civilians of Syria, and its support for Israel and its backing of Saudi Arabia in its attack on Yemen, but we can also protest other countries when they’re carrying out other barbarisms. It’s just political consistency and speaking to principle.”…….”
It’s a damning indictment of the hypocritical and unprincipled far left – and clearly identifies the political agenda which supersedes the humanitarian concerns. Children are often portrayed as the victims in today’s media, but for most, they are nothing more than a pawn in a political game. That is exactly you Mona (and Greenwald). While Murtaza may have missed on the White Helmets to a certain extent, at least he had the nerve to step away from the political agenda of the Intercept (momentarily) to address the humanitarian crisis in Syria – something you have yet to do.
Readers: 95% of the time I do not reply to authoritarian, pro-torture Republican Trump-voter Craig Summers. My replying caused other commenters to complain; when I reply to him then Craig posts massive walls of repetitive drivel in response. It pollutes the board.
US spokesperson struggles with questions about the difference between bombings in Syria and Yemen
I’m reasonably sure I posted in this thread a link to the Foreign Policy article by the American research fellow serving at the Moscow Foreign Ministry. He’s extremely certain Russia completely believes its interests in Syria are vital. So that government hack reciting hackery above is, well, hacking. (If I didn’t post it, I will.)
Link to my comment in this thread linking to and quoting Clinton Ehrlich, the American research fellow at the Moscow Foreign ministry.
Russian and Syrian bombers continue to pound Aleppo (al Jazeera tonight):
Syria’s Aleppo city was the scene of mass carnage on Wednesday with at least 81 civilians killed in air strikes on rebel-held neighbourhoods, a local rescue group said……First responders said the divided city’s eastern sector was pounded by more than 50 Russian and Syrian government missile attacks throughout the day that also wounded more than 87 people – some in critical condition……..Earlier in the day, air strikes on a busy marketplace in the Fardous neighbourhood killed at least 22 people…….Dr Farida, a gynaecologist whose clinic was in the market, said it was not clear what the aircraft were targeting……..”The destruction is horrible,” she said. “The rubble has piled up and the roads are cut.”……..According to global charity Doctors Without Borders, there are only 11 ambulances left for the 275,000 people who remain in the rebel-held sector. Only 35 doctors are still there………”
Obviously, Max Blumenthal favors Gaza children (politically) over children dying in Syria due to Russian and Syrian bombing. Ironically, in Syria, it is the ones SAVING children that he attacks. Is there any end to the lies and faux-humanitarian drivel of the far left? Can everyone see the obvious sickness with the obsession of opposing US policies at all costs?
Please see the single most important series of writing you must read to understand what you are reading and hearing on Syria from the media, including what you see about the White Helmets.
Max Blumenthal, Part I: Inside the Shadowy PR Firm That’s Lobbying for Regime Change in Syria
Max Blumenthal, Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria
What you are seeing and hearing from the media on Syria — including some major outlets online– can be understood only by reading this series.
Then scroll though comments below to see extensive discussion of this extremely important work.
Russia continued its bombardment of Aleppo according to al-Jazeera this morning:
“…….At least 55 people have been killed over the past 24 hours in the Syrian province of Aleppo as Russian air raids resumed over the countryside……..The deaths from raids in Aleppo’s Bustan al-Qasr and Fardous neighbourhoods, as well as Ar-Rasheeqa city, were the results of the heaviest Russian bombardment in days on the city’s rebel-held sector, people in the city said. Dozens were also wounded…….”
What is more important than the death of a few more civilians is that Blumenthal has reported that the White Helmets receive funding from the US, favor the implementation of a no fly zone and prefer the biggest murderer of people in the world today out of power. Of course, those are ridiculous demands from an outfit that has saved tens of thousands of innocent civilians while losing over 160 of their own during rescue operations. Here is his first answer to a Greenwald question in a recent interview by the Intercept:
“……..And when the war began, as journalists were clustered around the Al Deira hotel in Gaza’s sea port, the Israeli navy, which has maintained this siege for six or seven years, about three kilometers out at sea, began lobbing a series of artillery shells at four boys who were affiliated with the main fishing family who are huge in the fishing industry in Gaza City, the Bakr boys. They were playing hide-and-go-seek on the beach in front of journalists who were hanging out at this hotel where most of the journalists stay whenever there’s a war, and their bodies were torn to shreds…….”
Obviously, Blumenthal favors Gaza children (politically) over children dying in Syria due to Russian and Syrian bombing. Ironically, in Syria, it is the ones SAVING children that he attacks. Is there any end to the lies and faux-humanitarian drivel of the far left? Can everyone see the obvious sickness with the obsession of opposing US policies at all costs?
A Turkish NGO? Is it funded by the Gülen movement?
This report by you, Murtaza, is a big FAIL. Are we now seeing why billionaire, and frequent White House visitor (at least formerly), Pierre Omidyar, gathered together so many people’s champions under his First Look tent? (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.) The neoliberal/ neoconservative fire that was travelling underground for some distance has burst through to the surface it seems. What’s next? Will your colleagues defend you or disagree with you?
http://bit.ly/2e0rHsT
This is all you need to know about them ‘black’ helmets, folks….
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/361957-syria-white-helmets-un/
Somebody ought to investigate the journo who wrote this GLARING piece of Western propaganda and find ut who HIS paymasters are…. ;-)
War Hawks Are Sensing an Opening in Syria:
And they flatly refuse to address what Russia’s response would realistically be. It always goes back to: “Argle bargle, you love Assad, blah, blah, children slaughtered, bargle, argle, blah, Palestinians, hypocrisy, blah, you’re pro-fascist…”
“……..And they flatly refuse to address what Russia’s response would realistically be. It always goes back to: “Argle bargle, you love Assad, blah, blah, children slaughtered, bargle, argle, blah, Palestinians, hypocrisy, blah, you’re pro-fascist…”
God, don’t you hate it when someone uses the death of children to advance a political agenda? (Israel killed another Palestinian kid, a 15-year old starting his hair on fire with a flare)
Readers: 95% of the time I do not reply to authoritarian, pro-torture Republican Trump-voter Craig Summers. Doing so caused other commenters to complain; when I reply to him then Craig posts massive walls of drivel in response.
Widely known and popular blogger (as “The Angry Arab”) As’ad AbuKhalil:
It really has been utterly disgusting.
BREAKING FROM AP: RUSSIA STRONGLY WARNS US AGAINST STRIKING SYRIAN ARMY
Warmongering assholes can rant all they like that we sane people “love Assad” and don’t care about slaughtered children in Syria. We will oppose and expose your grossly dangerous desire for policies that greatly risk WWIII.
It is simply a fact that Russia believes it has vital interests in Syria. What anyone thinks they should believe or do is utterly irrelevant.
The White Helmets and all others agitating for a No Fly Zone in Syria are willing to risk WWIII. Clinton Ehrlich is an American research fellow at the Moscow Foreign Ministry. Last month he published this in the journal Foreign Policy: The Kremlin Really Believes That Hillary Wants to Start a War With Russia, my emphasis:
What does the U.S. do to parties and nations whom it deems to be attacking its vital interests? Please note, it doesn’t matter whether anyone accepts that what Russia identifies as its vital interests “really” are such. Any more than it matters vis-a-vis the U.S. What matters is what Russia believes.
This is what happened when a government becomes stuffed with the incompetent opportunists:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/10/harper-dr-strangelove-rides-again.html
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/10/harper-dr-strangelove-rides-again.html
In an article out of al-Jazeera today, the UN appeals to Russia and the Syrian regime:
“…….The UN’s Syria envoy on Thursday made an impassioned appeal to save eastern Aleppo, warning the city faced total……..In a maximum of two months, two-and-half months, the city of eastern Aleppo may be totally destroyed,”……The rebel-held east of Aleppo has been hammered by a Russia-backed government offensive, including multiple air attacks on hospitals, with hundreds of civilians killed and thousands wounded…….He [Staffan de Mistura] said history would judge Syria and Russia if they used the presence of about 900 Fateh al-Sham fighters as an “easy alibi” for destroying the rebel-held besieged area, killing thousands of the 275,000 citizens, 100,000 of whom are children……” my insert in brackets
There was outrage at the disproportionate force used by Israel in Gaza, but nothing when it happens in Syria at the hands of the Russians and Assad regime. Well, not quite. At the Intercept, much of the below the line “outrage” is directed at the White Helmets who have saved thousands of lives – but are western funded and (may) shockingly prefer Assad be removed from office (after being on the receiving end of his bombs for five years). What nerve!
http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/09/01/white-helmets-new-breed-of-mercenaries-and-propagandists-disguised-as-humanitarians-in-syria/
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/06/us-covert-strikes-on-assad-back-on-table-to-prevent-fall-of-aleppo/
US: Covert strikes on Assad back on table – to prevent ‘The Fall of Aleppo’
OCTOBER 6, 2016 BY 21WIRE 2 COMMENTS
21st Century Wire says…
It appears as if the Obama White House desperately wants a war before November 8th, and it seems they will break any international law to get it.
Top Washington officials are set to discuss striking positions of the Syrian military without a UN Security Council resolution. Bombing air force runways with missiles fired from coalition planes and ships is being considered, according to a report.
.
“One proposed way to get around the White House’s objection to striking the Assad regime without a UN Security Council resolution would be to carry out the strikes covertly and without public acknowledgment,” one administration official who is to take part in the discussions told the Washington Post.
.
A meeting of the Obama administration’s Principals Committee is scheduled for Wednesday, the newspaper reported, adding that a meeting of the National Security Council could follow this weekend.
This is typical of the “answers” to Max Blumenthal’s investigative journalism on The Syria Campaign and the White Helmets. It actually says nothing that undermines his myriad, well-documented facts. (I could also dispute multiple of the author’s fact claims about Syria and casualties etc., but that’s not the point here.)
Blumenthal is meticulous about the accuracy of his facts. That drives his critics crazy, whether they despise his work on Israel, Syria or anything else.
This is poor journalism. These ‘White Helmets’ are tools of the West, and support/aid regime change in Syria.
I repeat, these ‘White Helmets’ are a creation of Western government and support regime change in Syria.
http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/how-white-helmets-became-international-heroes-while-pushing-us-military
Max Blumenthal, in addition to threats by telephone and email, is getting a lot of rancid shit on Twitter in reaction to his reporting:
Assad is a monstrous sociopath — so was Saddam. Anyone with two IQ points to rub together knows this. The world, past and present, is full of them. If the world is to be at war to rid itself of all monsters it will always be at war — war makes its own monsters, and makes yet more down the road. (WWI created German receptivity to Adolph Hitler.)
I’ve yet to see anyone give a reasoned response to the excerpt from James Peck’s book ‘Ideal Illusions’ — as published in the article Are Your Humanitarian Heartstrings Being Tugged in the Name of Empire? No one can or has directly addressed what he asks Americans:
What would have been wrong if the Soviets had invaded to “fix” this? (WRONG — not infeasible.) Democracy had not been sufficiently working for African-Americans for centuries. (There are compelling arguments that it still isn’t working sufficiently.)
The Soviets had their own myriad civil libertarian nightmares, but they were right about ours. There’s a reason African-American intellectuals were attracted to the Communist Party — it accepted them as equals and denounced Jim Crow long before any mainstream parties did.
So why shouldn’t humanitarian concerns have motivated the nations of the world to invade us to assist African-Americans as Peck hypothesizes?
Well shit, so of course the other one posted as I was drafting this one without two links. The commenting software here drives me batshit.
In addition to phone and email threats and abuse, Max Blumenthal is seeing a lot of rancid bullshit on Twitter:
Neither Max, nor I, nor anyone with two IQ points to rub together, denies that Assad is a monstrous sociopath. So was Saddam. There are monsters like them populating both history and other parts of the present world.
Only a world constantly at war can “rid” themselves of all the monsters. And that wouldn’t actually do it. Constant war simply generates more monsters — WWI prepared the path for Adolph Hitler.
To again cite James Peck’s book ‘Ideal Illusions’ — excerpted in an article titled Are Your Humanitarian Heartstrings Being Tugged in the Name of Empire? — Peck asks Americans to:
I’ve yet to see a any serious attempt at a reasoned response that directly addresses what would have been wrong (not infeasible — WRONG) if, say, the Soviets — who were right in their accusations about how we treated blacks — invaded to “fix” that problem for us. (There’s a reason so many black intellectuals were attracted to the Communist Party — it accepted them as equals and advocated abolition of Jim Crow well before any mainstream political parties did.)
Democracy manifestly was not working, and had not been working, for African-Americans for several centuries. (There are compelling arguments that it still isn’t working.) So why would it have been wrong for other nations, driven by humanitarian concerns, to behave as per Peck’s hypothetical?
According to the Middle East Eye (this morning):
“…….Russia’s bombing campaign in Syria had stabilised the country and showcased the “reliability” of Russian weaponry, the country’s defence minister said on Thursday, as the UN’s Syria envoy said eastern Aleppo could be “destroyed” by the end of the year…….” – Sergei Shoigu
While the Russian’s Defense Minister bragged about Russian weaponry,
“…….The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights……..said that at least 3,800 civilians have been killed by Russian strikes since it began its military intervention in support of the Syrian government in September 2015……..Russia has been accused of using thermite, vaccum bombs, white phosphorus, bunker-buster bombs and cluster munitions on civilian targets in Aleppo. The use of many of those weapons on civilians is considered a violation of international law…….”
Many of these are the same munitions used by the Russian military in Grozny to quell the separatist Chechen uprising. While the efforts by the Russian government to grant self-determination to the people in Ukraine and Georgia have been laudable, they have fallen short in Chechnya where tens of thousands of people were killed.
“The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights” hmm, so after all this time you are still like a mushroom with soggy pants and kept in the dark!
its a well publicized and confirmed fact “The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights” guy sits in his London bedsit getting direct propaganda from his al nusra white helmets as to their latest production.
meanwhile the nusra white helmets are getting at least 100 million in western funding, the real Syrian defense forces are having their equipment stolen, their firetrucks and ambulances, striped and cant even replace these assets due to american and western sanctions on Syrian people and they cant even get their salaries due to these same sanctions that have been in place long before russia even come on the seen there.
Nice link endisnear.
Thanks
More lies advanced by the Russian “media” (i.e. Russian government) calling the recent attack of the aid convoy in Syria “staged”. According to the Sputnik (10-5-2016):
“……On September 19, a UN-Syrian Arab Red Crescent convoy carrying humanitarian aid for the Aleppo province was hit by a strike, according to the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC). As a result, 18 of 31 trucks were destroyed and at least 21 individuals were killed……The experts analyzed the footage and photos of the attack in the media and came to a conclusion that “the attack” was staged: in particular, the cabin of one of the trucks was not affected and “has no trace of a close explosion — traces of debris or holes, only the cargo damaged.” Furthermore, the edges of the holes in damaged trucks are covered with rust. The road surface was also in perfect condition, while according to the experts it would have been damaged if it were hit by an airstrike…….”
About the Sputnik (Wikipedia):
“………Sputnik (pronounced sp?tn?k) is an online news and radio broadcast service established by the Russian government-controlled news agency Rossiya Segodnya.[2] Headquartered in Moscow, Sputnik has regional editorial offices in Washington, Cairo, Beijing and London. It focuses on global politics and economics and is geared entirely towards a non-Russian audience.[3] Sputnik has been subject to accusations of bias, disinformation[4] and being a Russian propaganda outlet…..”
You do have to love the name “Sputnik” taking many of us back to the days of the Cold War.
PS I don’t mind if you repost your link (8:38) to the Max Blumenthal interview at the top of the thread Mona.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfyDgDTu0Go
Published on Sep 29, 2016
EIR’s Jeff Steinberg sits down with Virginia State Senator Richard Black to discuss the reality on the ground in Aleppo, Syria vs. the lies permeating the Western press. Having recently returned from a tour of Syria, including a meeting with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Black is committed to educating his fellow Americans about how U.S./UK strategy of regime change is destroying this once prosperous, non-belligerent and progressive country.
Max Blumenthal interviewed about his investigative pieces on The Syria Campaign, the White Helmets, regime change in Syria and a No Fly Zone.
Can anyone on this thread dispute that the White Helmets have literally saved tens of thousands of Syrian lives? In the link to a Blumenthal article, Max in no way provides any evidence that the White Helmets are frauds, or corrupt or that they have saved countless Syrian civilian lives at great personal risk from the ruthless and brutal bombings by the Assad regime and the Russian military. Over 160 White Helmets have been killed during rescue operations. That they have been under constant bombardment from the Assad regime for five years and the Russians for the last year explains exactly why they want a no fly zone enforced.
The Assad regime and the Russians are targeting civilians, hospitals, clinics and aid convoys – as reported by the same media propaganda outlets identified by Doug Salzmann below. Is this all false? Is the 2015-16 Amnesty International report on the Assad regime’s war crimes false also (posted below)?
On these threads, you see a concerted effort to hijack the discussion and discredit the White Helmets. No where does anyone (including Max Blumenthal) dispute the courageous work of the White Helmets and how many lives they have saved – or the ruthless and brutal bombings of civilians by the Russians and the Assad regime identified as war crimes by AI. None of that is disputed by Blumenthal.
You cannot in any way change the facts on the ground which is that Assad started the war by brutally assaulting and murdering hundreds of peaceful demonstrators and has committed an untold amount of war crimes (see Amnesty International and UN reports) including the use of chemical weapons on civilians. Pictures smuggled out of Syria indicate that the Assad regime has literally through starvation, torture, neglect and execution murdered tens of thousands of detainees. The Assad regime has used food and starvation as a weapon against civilians. He has dropped thousands of barrel bombs on civilians. Assad (and more recently the Russians) have attacked and bombed hospitals, field clinics and aid convoys. No one in the “blame America first” crowd of radical leftists and Russian bots can dispute these obvious and ruthless war crimes committed by the Assad regime and Russian bombers. The attempt by the idiots on the left to cling to any narrative that absolves Syria and Russia of their complicity in the targeting and murder of countless civilians is laughable.
Good night Mona.
About 95% of the time, and at the request of multiple other commenters, I ignore Craig Summers for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Substantively replying to him causes him to post yet more of the walls of text.
Which shows they are Superior Beings outside of the time-space continuum. For they were organized and trained in 2013 (most directly by a British mercenary), and formally founded in late 2014.
“…….Which shows they are Superior Beings outside of the time-space continuum…….”
That is not quite true Mona. While the White Helmets were not organized until a couple of years after Assad initiated the civil war, most of the White Helmets are Syrian volunteers who HAVE been under constant bombardment from the Assad regime for FIVE years.
while you turn your manure, over and over you missed the real and immanent problem, for all your talk and punditry , its what they do on the ground and the real between the lines diplomacy reveals this..
are you worried yet, perhaps you should be… or perhaps your one of the countless ‘it will never happen to me’s ‘ time to ponder your position perhaps…
Last weekend, after Western media blitzing propaganda about humanitarian suffering in Aleppo, Moscow issued a pointed statement warning that if the US-led military coalition, which is illegally operating in Syria in the first place, were to attack Syrian government forces again then that would entail a “tectonic shift” for the region.
The statement from Moscow was an unmistakable warning that any further US-led military action in Syria would mean all-out war.
© WIKIPEDIA/ VITALY V. KUZMIN This is How ‘Extremely Efficient’ S-300 Will Boost Russia’s Defenses in Syria This line in the sand has since been followed up this week with the Russian ministry of defense disclosing that it has installed the fearsome anti-aircraft, anti-missile S-300 defense system in Syria. Notably, too, the installation of the S-300 system came two days after Washington said that it was cutting off diplomatic talks with Russia over Syria. In other words, if Washington’s diplomatic snub was meant to intimidate Russia, then it c
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/columnists/20161005/1046020974/putin-us-geopolitical-judo.html
craigsummers, your post reads like a stenographic report approved by ziocons at the State Dept (Knesset)
Let’s assume that you can count up to 20:
The invasion of Syria by NATO/Golfies-supported jihadis had started in 2011. By 2014 – BEFORE Russians were officially invited to protect Syrian from the liver-eatrs – 250.000 Syrians of all ages were already dead, the majority of them killed by the “moderate” jihadis and other “freedom fighters” of ISIS, Al Qaeda, and Al Nusra.
Unlike your pro-ISIS/Israel/NATO propaganda, the facts say a true story:
“The Assad government opposed the U.S.’s 2003 invasion of Iraq. The Bush administration undertook to destabilize the regime by increasing sectarian tensions, showcasing and publicising Syrian repression of radical Kurdish and Sunni groups and financing political dissidents.[153] Assad also opposed the Qatar-Turkey pipeline in 2009. A classified 2013 report by a joint U.S. army and intelligence group concluded that the overthrow of Assad would have drastic consequences; the opposition supported by the Obama administration was dominated by jihadist elements.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war
Who has invited the US to Syria? Why Israel has been supporting ISIS? Who gave any rights to the Saudi and Qatari dictatorships to do the ziocons-sponsored “democracy on the march” in Syria? Here are your beloved Israeli generals professing their preference for ISIS: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4755215,00.html
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/06/21/israeli-intel-chief-we-dont-want-isis-defeated-in-syria/
craigsummers, could it be that your (and GilGs) visceral hatred towards the Russian military servicemen and their fight for Syrian sovereignty is related to your tender dreams about the Golan Heights?
In this comment below I discuss and link to the opinion poll of Syrians that Max refers to in his interview.
This is a demonstration of Mona’s lack of critical thinking skills again.
Survey: 82% of Syrians believe ISIL is US manufactured.
Is it really an unexpected conclusion? The war in Iraq did indeed make it easy for ISIL.
This is the part of the survey that Mona will avoid:
1) The presence of ISIL is explained by: “Wrong policies pursed by the Syrian government”:
Opposition areas: 67% agree
Kurdish areas: 63% agree
2) The presence of ISIL explained by
“The Syrian government made ISIL for marking the opposition to terrorism”
Opposition areas: 64% agree
Kurdish areas: 65% agree
3) Do you think Assad influence is positive or negative in the matters in Syria?
Opposition areas: 79% negative
Kurdish areas: 73% negative
(Idlip : 90% negative!!)
Wow!! shocking!! People living in areas where Assad’s bombs are destroying hospitals and residential areas have negative views of him.
Mona, the spoiled lapdog, purposely avoids emphasizing that in areas mostly affected by ISIL violence (anybody remembers Kobani?) a large majority blames the Syrian government as well. 87% of Kurds support coalition air strikes!
Her objective is to distort reality to prove herself and her fellow ignorant lapdogs that ISIL is a pure manufacture of the US as if Assad (the freely and fairly elected) policies had nothing to do with it.
Now call me a Zionist and please report me so TI can ban me because I proved again your lack of critical thinking skills and your undeniable position as a spoiled lapdog.
https://southfront.org/double-life-of-white-helmets-volunteers-by-day-terrorists-by-night-photos/
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2016/09/29/why-everything-you-hear-about-aleppo-is-wrong/
Mani is a troll to whom, like Craig Summers, I do not respond 95% of the time.
It’s more fun to demonstrate your ignorance when you don’t reply. So please don’t. Send your email to TI to report me.
You don’t crapflood, at least not yet, so there’s nothing to report you for. There’s no viewpoint discrimination in commenting policy, not even for trolls, as long as they don’t crapflood or post Stormfront-level heinous and crude bigotry. (Copyright violations have also been deleted on occasion, and sometimes the commenter is banned.)
“You don’t crapflood”
No. I don’t. You are the one who constantly crapflood, but since you are a spoiled lapdog then TI will never ban you. And as a spoiled lapdog you get the privilege to decide what crapflooding is.
Nope, I do not — Glenn Greenwald or other editors/managers decide that. Crapflooding has a definition. From Urban Dictionary:
By contrast, I post a great deal of information, including links to and quotes from relevant and intelligent sites. On many occasions since I joined Glenn’s comment section in 2005 other readers, as well as Glenn, have advised they appreciate my posting.
Moreover, Craig has been present in Glenn’s comments since about 2012. No one, including me, has ever suggested he should be banned. Not until he began crapflooding, which he appears to have stopped doing. Indeed, many of us have specifically cited him as an example of someone who strongly disagrees, yet who has never been at any risk of moderation in Glenn’s space.
Until now.
Now, I’ve posted all of this for the benefit of anyone else reading, and shall return to ignoring you as well as Craig. (Ignoring is the way to handle trolls who don’t crapflood and so are not subject to a ban. As we have seen, ignoring sometimes drives the ignored nuts enough to crapflood. Then they will eventually be banned unless they stop.)
“Crapflooding is a form of trolling online media such as discussion websites or Usenet newsgroups with NONSENSICAL, INANE, and/or REPETITIVE postings in order to make it difficult for other users to read other postings.”
NONSENSICAL:
“Mani is a vicious Zionist who wants to harm me in real life”
“Mani lies about other commenters”
” I don’ t care about Mani’s religion”
“Mani is not a Muslim”
INANE:
“Craig is a Zionist authoritarian ”
“Nate is a fuckwit”
100% of your comments in some sections related to me and others who disagreed with the articles. Sometimes you do not write absolutely ANYTHING about the articles.
REPETITIVE:
” Craig is a Zionist troll. Ignore him” x 10
“Mani is a vicious troll who lies about other commenters ” x10
“Nate should be banned ” x2
Your essentially call everybody who disagrees with TI, Zionists, trolls, liars, and you call for their banning at the end. So, again use your own definition of crapflooding and report me to to TI so you can prove my point.
The Russian band Leningrad has a great music video of a Russian partisan who spends to much time arguing in favour of Russia on the internet. I happened to see it just as I was spending too much time arguing with craigsummers. It does have English subtitles.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kOeAXKUK6aM
Excellent.
You do know that any time spent arguing with Craig is too much, right?
“…….I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it……”
I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t enjoy debating the issues, but it does call into question what motivates you to post at the Intercept – especially if you don’t enjoy debating the issues. Are you getting paid to do this…..and by whom?
Doug, Craig wants to know if you’re getting paid and if so, by whom. Personally, I think there ought to be MacArthur Fellowship grants for people like you to comment where and as you desire on the Internet.
What do you think people who try and have posters who disagree with them banned should get? Perhaps a Kim il Sung fellowship.
Crapflooding is ban-worthy. Even if Kim Il Sung would agree.
As defined by Mona – the authoritarian.
exactly. Only the supreme leader gets to define what crapflooding is.
And the Supreme Leader usually is Glenn Greenwald; it certainly is never me. You may have heard, he’s one of the founders of the place. He instituted limited commenting rules back at Blogger in ’06, and did so with input from me. I’m well familiar with his standards and preponderantly share them.
Moreover, he’s banned crapflooders who are his supporters, tho for obvious reasons sites attract more crapflooders who disagree. He simply doesn’t well tolerate it. (A time or two he first asked a commenter to limit their posts to a certain number, but that never worked.)
It was certainly a logical deduction, Mona. I assume everyone enjoys commenting below the line that participates. It’s voluntary. No one forces you to comment – so if you don’t enjoy “wrestling with a pig in the mud”, crawl out of the pit. The pig will always find someone else to wrestle with – and the pig doesn’t give one flying fuck.
“…….If Mona admits that it was wrong for Assad to kill peaceful protestors, will you admit that it was wrong for the US government to kill 1,000,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5?…..”
That is what you gave me James. You could have been talking about the civil war for all I knew – and you really didn’t ask much of Mona. Her answer was too easy for you to accept which clearly colors the perception of your political agenda. The question was disingenuous, off topic and politically motivated.
I don’t agree with every US action. For example, much of America’s work in South and Central America was indefensible. However, Saddam Hussein was solely responsible for the sanctions levied after he invaded Kuwait without provocation. When he was ousted, he launched missiles capable of carrying chemical weapons at Israel. In addition, he refused to cooperate with the UN inspectors invoking 17 UN resolutions at the UN. In addition, he profited from the oil for food program while his people were going hungry. Saddam Hussein was solely responsible for any deaths due to the sanctions – not the US.
The US initiated the war in Iraq and therefore is responsible for a lot of deaths. No one can deny that. Iraq is similar in many ways to Syria with a proxy war between the Saudis and Iran. Sectarian killing was at epidemic levels during the conflict. A lot of the killing and all of the ethnic cleansing in Iraq was caused by al-Qaeda in Iraq, Shia Death Squads and Sunni terrorists.
On the positive side, the Kurds and the Shiites were liberated (at great cost).
Thanks.
Excellent. Portrays the Russian partisans on this board perfectly.
“It would be better if you take the trash out!”
Haha! Thanks James!
For anybody still looking at this thread:
https://off-guardian.org/2016/10/05/fact-sheet-on-the-white-helmets/
Thank you, Kathleen; I was shaking my head in disgust at this propaganda piece.
There’s an interesting Canadian Dimension article by Ryan about the White Helmets and the new neoliberal New Democratic Party here in Canada. See http://bit.ly/2dvcKvq. Off Guardian is proving to be invaluable. It’s alarming how many ‘progressive’ sites are suddenly tossing out turds. Thank goodness I’m discovering new ones (The New Cold War: Ukraine And Beyond, Boiling Frogs Post, Off Guardian for example) to turn to.
The Kremlin Really Believes That Hillary Wants to Start a War With Russia
As soon as it’s President Hillary Clinton, articles such as Maz’s, and all the PR-induced pro-White Helmet crap flying all over establishment media, will support her flirtation with WWIII. She has a deep desire to “take on Russia,” and alarmingly, that country believes she means to go to war with them. That linked article is from Foreign Policy, written by an American who is a visiting researcher at Moscow’s Foreign ministry.
How safe is a world where Russia believes — for good reason — that the president of the United States is hellbent on going to war? How helpful is it to have Russia operating operating under the presumption that no matter what it does, Hillary Clinton will take bellicose positions and likely choose war?
As Glenn Greenwald has been discussing on Twitter, the Obama Administration appears to have calculated that deposing Assad is less important that stopping ISIS, so he’s abandoned regime change in Syria. The Hillary Clinton and John Kerry factions are pissed.
U.S. policy will revert to regime change come January 2017.
Additional lies by Russia uncovered according to a Dutch led investigation of the downing of Malasian flight over Ukraine killing 298 people New York Times, September 28, 2016):
“…….A Dutch-led investigation has concluded that the powerful surface-to-air missile system used to shoot down a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine two years ago, killing all 298 on board, was trucked in from Russia at the request of Russian-backed separatists and returned to Russia the same night…….”
Of course, the Russian government had attempted to deflect the accusations to Ukrainian jet fighters. This was followed by an elaborate cover-up by Moscow. Will this story ever make the Intercept? Unlikely, but we are far more knowledgeable about Chris Kyle because of the in depth Intercept reporting..
You may repeat again and again the revelations of Mr. Eliot Higgins (Billingcat), the the darling of Atlantic Council and expert in selling ladies’ underwear, but these revelations have been already debunked by serious professionals .
If you prefer to base your conclusion on the propaganda of presstituting MSM sources, then there is no sense to reason with you. Enjoy your CIA-approved sources.
And what do your KGB….er FSB sources tell you what happened, Anna?
Craig, you are a poisonous pollutant in this forum. You need to go away or be removed.
Gee, I must have missed it. I mean, the release of the Dutch report must have included the US satellite images, the recordings of the primary radar installations in the area, the air-traffic control recordings, etc. Right? Could you direct me to those materials, Craig?
not surprised you missed it, or that you would discount it. Satellite images? Really no missal could of been fired without being captured on Satellite image? There are air traffic control recordings as well as detailed forensic investigation try reading the report.
Well, missals are pretty small, so the US spy satellite(s) positioned over the conflict area could have missed one “being fired.” Said satellite(s) could not, however, have missed the launch, trajectory and impact of a missile taking down an airliner in cruise at FL 330.
Anyway, although the images have not been released, the US long ago reported that they exist and claimed that they do, indeed, show the missile launch and impact, among other things. (Shows us how much you know.)
The findings of the Dutch reports were foregone conclusions. Everyone familiar with the circumstances of the flights, the battles on the ground and the US-NATO demonization of Russia and support for the attack of the puppet government in Kiev on its own people in the Donbass knew what it would say from Day One.
In reality, there is ample evidence that either side could have inadvertently shot down MH17 and no conclusive evidence that either actually did. Further, whoever did fire the missile certainly did not intend to hit a civilian airliner.
That said, we do know who initiated the series of events that led up to this tragedy: it was the Western powers and their puppets in Kiev.
P.S. I think you’re a paid troll for Washington, London and Tel Aviv (Jerusalem is an international city).
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Dude, you are working too hard. Your point is simple:
“The US and Israel are terrorist states responsible for the carnage in Syria and the conflict in the Ukraine. Assad is the freely and fairly elected president of Syria. The US and Israel are behind the bombing of hospitals, convoy aids and other civilian targets in Syria. They are also responsible for the downing of the civilian plane in Ukraine. Russia intervention in Ukraine and Syria has a clear objective, which is to protect the civilian population.”
You do not need to work that hard. Your views are clear and you have obviously proved them right (in your delusional mind).
“In reality, there is ample evidence that either side could have inadvertently shot down MH17 and no conclusive evidence that either actually did.”
There “irrefutable evidence” a Russian made BUK missile from the 9M38-series was used, and a preponderanceof evidence it was fired from an area controlled by Russian backed forces in the Ukraine. This is my ample evidence let’s see yours.
https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014/preliminary-report/1562/preliminary-report-points-towards-external-cause-of-mh17-crash#fasen
Puppets? They are the legitimate gov’t of the Ukraine, you bring new meaning useful idiot Doug.
Doug
“……The findings of the Dutch reports were foregone conclusions……”
And for obvious reasons. It is really hard to feel too sorry for Putin, but he has told lie after lie so he has little credibility when it comes to crying the west is against us. Additionally, it didn’t help his case when he annexed the Crimea Peninsula and continues to militarily support a war in eastern Ukraine.
The idea that the war in Ukraine is a western coup is even more funny. The US would certainly like to overthrow the Russian government. What keeps that from happening? Ukraine has been dominated by the Russia for decades under non democratic Soviet rule. It was clear that the Ukrainians were ripe for a revolution and independence from Russian domination of Ukrainian affairs. The recent Ukrainian revolution was fomented for decades in the Soviet Union. Where is the former President of Ukraine living now (Viktor Yanukovych)? When things got hectic, he went home to Russia.
Thanks.
The Dutch might be able to, but I’m not going to. Why depend on the US satellite images? Try Russia’s. You know that Russia is a modern country. They can hack, tap phones and do all kinds of things as well as the US so you don’t need the US satellite images. The only thing they have trouble with is preventing revolutions withing your “sphere of influence”. Don’t fret though. The US had the same problems with our sphere of influence – now everyone in South America can’t stand us. It’s probably why so many countries were so eager to join NATO after the collapse of the USSR.
Putin – like most leaders – is a chronic liar. Hope that doesn’t offend you. Finally, if you are not satisfied, take it up with the Dutch.
Thanks.
Russia – lying about their role in bombing an aid convoy after the collapse of the cease fire.
Al Jazeera (September 21, 2016):
“……..Neither Russian nor Syrian aircraft bombed an aid convoy in Syria’s Aleppo, Moscow said on Tuesday, as outrage mounted over an attack that some called a war crime……..”The air forces of Russia and Syria did not conduct any strikes against the UN aid convoy in the southwestern outskirts of Aleppo,” defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said in a statement……. Konashenkov said the attack the previous night doesn’t appear to have been from an air strike.…….”
Al Jazeera (October 5, 2016)
“…….Analysis of satellite imagery of a deadly attack on an aid convoy in Syria last month showed that it was an air strike, a UN expert said on Wednesday…….The United States blamed two Russian fighter jets that it said were in the skies above the area at the time of the incident. Moscow denies the charge and says the convoy caught fire……..With our analysis we determined it was an air strike and I think multiple other sources have said that as well,” Lars Bromley, research adviser at UNOSAT, told a news conference…….”
On Twitter, Ken Klippenstein offers one assessment of the Max Blumenthal piece referenced in the comments below:
From my reading of Max’s article, and others, that’s accurate, but incomplete.
The subtitle that Max provided in his first installment offers this premise:
Certainly a longer, broader position than just trying to get the message out, yet arguably, given everything I’ve read, it’s still incomplete.
Either way, I’ll not litigate those specific views further as I do think that Max made his case well – using a lot more evidence to support his position than Murtaza Hussain. But then again, Maz’s premise is really quite narrow:
Accurate as hell. But largely uninformative in any other respect.
Perhaps that’s as complete as the author wanted to make it. If so, I have no idea why. Conversation starter? Mission accomplished.
Below, Doug Salzmann was asking whether, in light of what Max’s article demonstrates, Maz is part of this obviously coordinated campaign to canonize the White Helmets on behalf of the pro-interventionist factions, which includes the explicitly political WHs. There’s sophisticated PR firms and state actors involved, complete with organized messaging for and to the media.
It makes me sick to think it, but Maz’s article is so essentially worthless for what it leaves out — especially coupled with it’s hagiographic tenor — I don’t know what other conclusion is reasonable. (I can’t get over that the Helmets were specifically trained to lug video equipment around and film themselves as they rescued, for PR use.) Considering also that a bit over a month ago he published that interview with the supposedly rehabilitated (rebranded, is more like it) Al Qaeda in Syria. I guess we’re supposed to think this entire AQ group has decided to quit that terror thing and is now worth supporting against Assad.
It’s all very depressing and alarming to see this campaign at work here, but after reading Max’s fact-intense, compelling expose it’s hard for me to see any other conclusion. And, the contrast between Maz’s above article and Max’s pieces is …there’s nothing that can be said about the difference in quality that doesn’t look very unflattering to Maz.
Where are the reports of White Cap “work” in the main part of the city of Aleppo? Surely they are there helping out digging babies from the rubble and shouting “Allah Akhbar!” with every jihadi mortar round and landing shell? Why hide your light under a barrel? What? They arent working there? Why not? Dont 1.5 m people under a 3 year siege deserve a helping hand…? Can our media please ask them,
There’s no question the White Helmets have rescued thousands, but they have been specifically trained by former British infantry officer, James Le Mesurier, to do so with cameras in tow to film themselves doing so. They have an explicitly political agenda which the video is then used to support, complete with parties and lobbying in D.C.
They want a No Fly Zone. Hilary Clinton may well give them one. AS is well known, Russia believes it has vital interests in Syria and is flying war planes there. When asked if she would shoot down Russian planes, Clinton coyly stated: “I don’t think it would come to that.” She (frighteningly) assumes they’d stand down.
She and those who want a NFZ are willing to greatly provoke Russia, thus risking WWIII.
yes heaven forbid we allow the rescue of children by people who have video cameras “in tow”. We should let the children die rather then support anyone who has ever had any association with a British infantry officer. I mean really whats more important pulling children from bombed out building or making sure someone with a political agenda isn’t doing it. How do you think those children are going to feel when they find out that the person who pulled them from the rubble had a PR firm. I know they will certainly wonder why more people did not head Mona’s cries and allow them to remain buried in the rubble. I hope those children appreciate what you are doing for them Mona.
Both a non sequitur and a straw man. Your entire comment is a string of fallacy.
1. No one advocates that the White Helmets be made to stop rescuing anyone.
2. Many, such as me, do advocate that the full truth about the White Helmets be widely known. Including that these images are available by the plan of a UK Western soldier — that is, by design — for PR purposes in support of the Helmet’s political agenda.
Why ? How is that discussion doing anything to end the hostilities? The whole discussion is meant as a distraction to take the focus off the crimes being committed by Assad and Russia. That is not to say the other side is not committing crimes as well but the focus needs to be on what is causing the suffering and making it stop not PR groups.
If you think it’s irrelevant that USAID & other Western forces founded White Helmets — and that a massive public relations campaign is involved in promoting them and their political agenda for military intervention provoking Russia — if that’s all irrelevant to you then you should just ignore the discussion and we’ll carry on without you.
How are the White Helmets provoking Russia? By saving children that are in buildings the Russians have bombed? By videoing those rescues and making the world aware of what’s going on. Not for nothing but I’m guessing you have argued many times on the other side when Zionists have argued that the real agenda of say the ISM, is not to bring aid to Palestinians but to bring about the destruction in Israel.
“How are the White Helmets provoking Russia? ”
Mona, the spoiled lapdog gave the answer: they are provoking Russia by asking for a NFZ so Russia and Syria can stop dropping bombs on hospitals, and civilian buildings.
Don’t tell me it is not a comedy show!
How the hell you are provoking somebody who is already bombing and killing you!
Some times after reading the replies of these posters posing as progressives interested in human rights I feel the need to shower. They have proven over and over again that they care nothing for human suffering only about the political expediency of who they can blame.
How old are you? Have you heard about the illegal Iraq War initiated by the US on a false pretense? – 1.5.MILLION Iraqis, mostly civilians, were killed by the “coalition of the killing (US/NATO)
What about the illegal war waged by US/NATO in Libya? 320 thousands Libyans died, mostly civilians, including the multitude of children. The country is in ruin.
In case you are not aware, the war against Syria had started in 2011. Why? Israel wants the Golan Heights by any means: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
This explains the Israel’s cooperation with ISIS: http://www.globalresearch.ca/selected-articles-israels-active-cooperation-with-isis-and-al-qaeda/5520831
Nonsense Israel has had the Golan Heights since 1967 and has never been in danger of losing them, nor has Syria even made much of an effort to get them back. Israel has treated soldiers wounded in the fighting there is zero evidence that they are Al-Queda as claimed in the article you linked to.
Why are you against a group that is rescuing children from Russian and Syrian bombing? And why do you support a brutal dictator that has a history of using chemical warfare on his own people. How old are you? Have you heard about the Hama massacre? From a source far more reliable then the one you sited.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/from-the-archive-blog/2011/aug/01/hama-syria-massacre-1982-archive
Anna, Gil is a rightwing ardent Israel apologist. He’s frequently wrong in his fact claims or rejection of those of others. His reasoning skills are very poor and he appears to have a complete inability to stay on point; fallacies are his best friends.
For example, he knows very good and well (or should, unless he’s cognitively impaired) that the NFZ the White Helmets agitate for would provoke Russia. But he disingenuously asks: “How are the White Helmets provoking Russia?” And then blathers on with non sequiturs and appeals to emotion, as well as misdirection about Israel-Palestine.
As weak and transparent as all of that is, he’s usually convinced he’s utterly blown his opponent’s argument to hell. Whether he’s dishonest or stupid I haven’t decided yet.
I see I have made it to your slander list by merely asking questions you can’t answer honestly. Asking for a no fly zone to prevent civilians from being bombed is a legitimate provocation to the Russians? How can you even write that without feeling embarrassed.
I realize you are simply mendacious and incapable of taking a stand based on morality rather than politics.
I have blown your argument to hell, not only now but on many occasions.
Yet again demonstrating that you are deficient in reading comprehension, logical reasoning, both, or you are simply dishonest. Only another person sharing some or all of those characteristics would read this thread and believe you’ve asked me questions I cannot answer, that I am “slandering”* you & etc.
Therefore, I don’t care about any of those claims about me and will not substantively reply to them. No one whose opinion could possibly matter is at any risk of taking it seriously.
I will also continue to ignore the troll, Mani.
*(It is not possible for me or anyone else to “slander” you here. Slander is spoken defamation. Anything defamatory posted here would be libel. Moreover, defamation is a fact claim, not an opinion.)
I also notice that you in no way responded to my post to Anna and yet felt compelled to derail and misdirect the sub-thread ? Too funny!!!!!
You never reply substantively Mona. You are nothing more then a collection of cliches.
Gil: “You are nothing more then a collection of cliches.”
After I wrote: “It is not possible for me or anyone else to “slander” you here. Slander is spoken defamation. Anything defamatory posted here would be libel. Moreover, defamation is a fact claim, not an opinion.”
Always like that with Gil, who apparently doesn’t understand that correcting his error about defamation law constitutes substantive writing, simply not such about his spewing regarding me personally. This isn’t my first factual correction of Gil, and if he sticks around, it won’t be the last.
Its a gottcha and has nothing to do with the thread. And you think its substantive. Too funny :)
Gil in the thread: “I have made it to your slander list …”
Me in the thread: “Slander is spoken defamation. Anything defamatory posted here would be libel.”
Then Gil in the thread: “And has nothing to do with the thread”
I seriously feel as if I’m like shooting the proverbial fish in the barrel.
Max Blumenthal’s Part II is posted: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria
Part I: Inside the Shadowy PR Firm That’s Lobbying for Regime Change in Syria
On Twitter, Max suggest this is good to read in tandem with his pieces, in light of the raging war between leftists about intervention in Syria: Are Your Humanitarian Heartstrings Being Tugged in the Name of Empire?. It’s an excerpt from James Peck’s book ‘Ideal Illusions’ in which, among other things, Peck poses this thought experiment:
Oh so because the media would denounce as foreign meddling the hypothetical situation described above that means that a foreign country advocating for people being mistreated in another country are morally wrong. What a hypocrite. Now you are rationalizing what is correct by using the MSM you constantly trash as immoral as your moral compass. Too funny!!!!!!
In this comment I provide results of one of the most recent polls of the Syrian people that I am aware of.
Mona
1. I have noted that in the past you have posted over the top of my post at the top of the thread to keep people from reading my posts. The reason you accuse me of doing this is because that is a strategy you are familiar with from experience. So it just is one more reason to call you a hypocrite.
2. If a link to an article always deserves a spot at the top of the thread, how do you sort out which link deserves the top spot? In other words, your accusation that I don’t want people to read Blumenthal’s article – even if true which it isn’t – indicates that I can keep posting at the top as long as I keep posting a link. Do links to other articles have priorities on this site?
3. My posts at the top of this thread are generally relevant to the article or responses to what you posted.
4. What really bothers you and one of the reasons you began posting over my posts at the top is I referenced your reaction to the children dying in Gaza versus children dying in Syria – and called you a hypocrite. You won’t get any sympathy from me on that one since I have been called every name in the book on this site – and you have been one person that encouraged it with DocHollywood who specializes in personal attacks. You are a hypocrite Mona (but so is everyone else on this site).
5. If you want to ban me then go for it. I honestly don’t care, but don’t think for a moment that this is not political since you are the one defining “crapflooding”. It would certainly define who the authoritarian is on this site.
6. Who are you to tell other people not to read my posts while calling me an authoritarian, torture-supporting Trump voter? So you can call me any name you want anytime you want (whether I am addressing you or not), but then you complain because “he [craigsummers] persists in posting to and about me, demanding that I answer certain questions”. Are you kidding Mona? That is clearly an abuse of power on your part. That I expose you as a hypocrite is certainly fair in lieu of your name calling and telling people to scroll by me. By the way, how many times did you demand that I define the Fourth Amendment?
You seem a little spoiled Mona. If I didn’t know you were in older, I would guess you are in your early teen years.
Thanks Mona
I have reported you for all the reasons stated directly below. There will be no substantive discussion between us. If something isn’t done this time, a record is being made and eventually will be if you repeat.
Mona
Sorry Mona, I won’t be intimidated by you because you happen to be the former law partner of Greenwald. You are clearly abusing your position of power. I am going to respond to you whenever I want and however I want. If they ban me so be it, but you and I both know it will be for political reasons – not because I am crapflooding.
Thanks Mona
Please report me for the following reasons:
1) Exposing your lies including the accusation that I am a criminal stalking you and wanting to harm you
2) Exposing your crapflooding and trolling by starting long arguments that are completely irrelevant to the articles.
3) Exposing your baffling ignorance of US laws and your lack of critical thinking skills. I.e your inability to understand what the Father of the Constitution said about the US constitution.
4)Exposing your ignorance in analyzing basic statistical data. I.e Using data on Muslim perception of WESTERNERS to explain causation of US policy while you ignore specific data on Muslim perception of US to explain that causation of such policy.
Please report me as soon as possible so you can prove my point:
It is a comedy show where critical thinking is forbidden. And the moderator is a spoiled lapdog who can pollute the show as much as she wants.
@craigsummers
You have not answered me. Don’t be a coward – be a man and answer my question.
ATTENTION READERS: I have reported Craig Summers. Please scroll past him — I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him (often; unfortunately he’s crapflooding) to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria. Excerpts given.
1. Mr. Summers does not want readers to consider Blumenthal’s article, so he’s crapflooding the comments with constant new posts to stay at the top of the thread. (This is behavior which has often resulted in banning; crapflooding as that is defined and assessed here, not as determined by Mr. Summers.) Please scroll past all of his pollution. In the meantime, I am reporting him.
2. Mr. Summers is well aware that I wish to almost entirely ignore him; he’s been told so innumerable times. Especially in this thread, he persists in posting to and about me, demanding that I answer certain questions. This is an abuse of the board. I am entitled to ignore someone without his spamming the board and his constantly demanding that I answer his questions.
For these reasons I have reported him.
Whats Russian for cuckcoo?
“………Mr. Summers does not want readers to consider the Blumenthal’s article, so he’s crapflooding the comments with constant new posts to stay at the top of the thread. (This is behavior which has often resulted in banning; crapflooding as that is defined and assessed here, not as determined by Mr. Summers.) Please scroll past all of his pollution…….”
This is a complete fabrication on the part of Mona. I could care less whether people read Blumenthal’s article or not. He is a disgraceful radical leftist, but people should read his report which does nothing to discredit the humanitarian work of the White Helmets. In fact, you are the one that is trying to keep people from reading what I write by telling them to scroll by. What do you fear Mona? I have asked the question numerous times and no one on this thread has shown that the White helmets have not done exactly what they claim which is save tens of thousands of Syrian lives under the onslaught and indiscriminate bombing of the regime and the Russians. You have avoided answering that question numerous times. Why does the truth bother you so much? Possibly it might be related to you being a lawyer. Lawyers are not interested in the truth. They are interested in getting their clients off.
You are simply trying to discredit me by calling me a crapflooder and accusing me of trying to prevent people from reading Blumenthal (which would be fairly difficult to do). That is sincerely a joke Mona – and you know it. However, I am not going to let you get away with the extreme hypocrisy when it comes to Russian and regime atrocities (some outlined in this article). You treated the dead children in Gaza as if it was the biggest disaster in your life, but then you are silent on the children killed in Syria. You are an extreme hypocrite. And Mona, do you have any idea how much of a fool you look like when you say you are not going to reply to me – and then you reply to me time after time (indirectly)?
Thanks Mona.
Max Blumenthal’s Part I: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria
ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers — I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him (often; unfortunately he’s crapflooding) to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria.Excerpts given.
Mr. Summers does not want readers to consider the Blumenthal’s article, so he’s crapflooding the comments with constant new posts to stay at the top of the thread. (This is behavior which has often resulted in banning; crapflooding as that is defined and assessed here, not as determined by Mr. Summers.) Please scroll past all of his pollution.
“……..Skip past him (often; unfortunately he’s crapflooding) to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria.Excerpts given…….”
Here is the relevant rebuttal to Blumenthal’s politically motivated article on the funding of the White helmets (posted lower in the thread also):
Can anyone on this thread dispute that the White Helmets have literally saved tens of thousands of Syrian lives? In the link to a Blumenthal article, Max in no way provides any evidence that the White Helmets are frauds, or corrupt or that they have saved countless Syrian civilian lives at great personal risk from the ruthless and brutal bombings by the Assad regime and the Russian military. Over 160 White Helmets have been killed during rescue operations. That they have been under constant bombardment from the Assad regime for five years and the Russians for the last year explains exactly why they want a no fly zone enforced.
The Assad regime and the Russians are targeting civilians, hospitals, clinics and aid convoys – as reported by the same media propaganda outlets identified by Doug Salzmann below. Is this all false? Is the 2015-16 Amnesty International report on the Assad regime’s war crimes false also (posted below)?
On these threads, you see a concerted effort to hijack the discussion and discredit the White Helmets. No where does anyone (including Max Blumenthal) dispute the courageous work of the White Helmets and how many lives they have saved – or the ruthless and brutal bombings of civilians by the Russians and the Assad regime identified as war crimes by AI. None of that is disputed by Blumenthal.
You cannot in any way change the facts on the ground which is that Assad started the war by brutally assaulting and murdering hundreds of peaceful demonstrators and has committed an untold amount of war crimes (see Amnesty International and UN reports) including the use of chemical weapons on civilians. Pictures smuggled out of Syria indicate that the Assad regime has literally through starvation, torture, neglect and execution murdered tens of thousands of detainees. The Assad regime has used food and starvation as a weapon against civilians. He has dropped thousands of barrel bombs on civilians. Assad (and more recently the Russians) have attacked and bombed hospitals, field clinics and aid convoys. No one in the “blame America first” crowd of radical leftists and Russian bots can dispute these obvious and ruthless war crimes committed by the Assad regime and Russian bombers. The attempt by the idiots on the left to cling to any narrative that absolves Syria and Russia of their complicity in the targeting and murder of countless civilians is laughable.
If I am crapflooding then certainly so is Mona.
@craigsummers
If Mona admits that it was wrong for Assad to kill peaceful protestors, will you admit that it was wrong for the US government to kill 1,000,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5?
Assad is a monster, as was Saddam. No reasonable person denies that. Please see my comment here for part of the reason why that fact is not nearly the only salient one.
Your answer is quite reasonable. I wonder if craigsummers is going to be reasonable, make excuses, or be a coward and not answer my question.
James
“……..If Mona admits that it was wrong for Assad to kill peaceful protestors, will you admit that it was wrong for the US government to kill 1,000,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5?…… Your [Mona] answer is quite reasonable. I wonder if craigsummers is going to be reasonable, make excuses, or be a coward and not answer my question…….”
No Mona’s answer was not quite reasonable and either was your question. Assad is responsible for much more than killing just some protesters in 2011. If you read at all (which apparently you don’t), then you should read Amnesty International’s reports on the Syrian regime which goes way beyond killing a few protesters. I have posted numerous facts on these threads regarding their targeting civilians, medical facilities, clinics and so on (Russians as well). I have posted that pictures smuggled out of Syria indicate that potentially tens of thousands of detainees died while in custody of the Assad regime – executed, starved, neglected, tortured and so on. There is plenty more if you are willing to look.
As far as the US goes, you don’t mention the circumstances surrounding the one million children supposedly killed by the US. Are you talking about the sanctions placed on Saddam after his invasion of Kuwait, the invasion of Iraq, both – or even where you get the figure from? Let me know and I will be happy to answer it although I am not sure how this relates to this article.
Mona has admitted that Assad has blood on his hands. You seem entirely unable to admit that the US has as much blood on its hands. That was the point that I was making. When people are incapable of admitting any wrongdoing that is strong evidence of an axis-2 personality disorder.
I did make clear which 500,000 deaths I was talking about, as did Doug Salzmann’s comment which was much better than mine, but you just scrolled scrolled by those comments. The deaths were a result of pre-invasion sanctions on Iraq (here is M. Albright admitting to it – youtu.be/R0WDCYcUJ4o).
Yes you can point to other bad things Assad has done. I can point to other bad things the US govt has done.
I know I won’t persuade you. I know it is a waste of time. But I listened to a guy scream for 3 hours while he was tortured in the next room by Argentinian policemen who were trained in how to torture at the US torture school that has produced more torturers than any other torture school in the world. This isn’t theoretical to me.
@ Mona, Isn’t bringing up the Iraq war whataboutery? How come you are not giving James a lesson in what it is?
The White Helmets are not some organic outgrowth of altruistic rescuers in Syria. They were organized by a militarist; a Western soldier who fought in Bosnia. Blumenthal, my emphasis:
ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers — I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him (often; unfortunately he’s crapflooding) to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria.Excerpts given.
These are the excerpts:
Blumenthal attended a D.C. soiree held for White Helmets, presided over by “Frederick Hof, the director of the Hariri center, a former adviser to Hillary Clinton on Syrian “transition” and a longtime State Department envoy in the Middle East.”
Amnesty International report 2015-2016
“……Russia intervened in the conflict in support of the Syrian government, beginning a campaign of air strikes on 30 September primarily against armed opposition groups. The same day, Russian air strikes on Talbiseh, Zafraneh and Rastan in Homs governorate reportedly killed at least 43 civilians……”
“………On 7 October, Russian forces fired cruise missiles into Syria from ships in the Caspian Sea. One missile strike killed five civilians and destroyed at least 12 homes in Darat Izza, Aleppo governorate. On 20 October, two suspected Russian air strikes hit the immediate vicinity of Sermin field hospital in Idleb governorate, killing 13 civilians and putting the hospital out of action. On 29 November, a suspected Russian war plane fired three missiles into a busy market in Ariha, Idleb governorate, killing 49 civilians…….”
“………..Altogether, the Russian attacks reportedly killed at least 600 civilians and struck at least 12 medical facilities in areas controlled or contested by non-state armed groups……”
Mona’s reaction in Gaza:
“…….Israel is blowing the heads off of babies and targeting ambulances. Israel is evil…….”
“…….Five ambulances directly hit by IDF tanks and F-16s……”
And Syria?
“……????????……” Silence (despite the destruction of 12 medical facilities)
Mona
“……ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers etc……”
You still have not answered the question Mona. Have the White Helmets featured in the article by Murtaza Hussain saved tens of thousands of innocent civilian lives including thousands of children Mona? Nothing in your link to Blumenthal disputes that all important statistic. The White Helmets save lives. I have asked that question several times on the thread and not one poster has come forward to dispute the life saving operations performed under great duress by the White Helmet. Over 160 White Helmets have died in the field.
You have proven yourself to be a hypocrite of the highest order Mona crying for the lost children in Gaza while ignoring the children killed by the Assad regime and Russian bombers. Of course, the reason you refuse to reply is that you are politically motivated while being a fraudulent supporter of humanitarian issues. No one with half a brain could ever take you serious again when children in Gaza are killed during the next Gaza operation by the IDF. Again your reaction in Gaza:
“…….I’m in tears, and I didn’t see that picture correctly. It’s, I believe, a policeman holding the girl……”
And Syria?
“………???????……….” Silence
Josh Rogan in WaPo: Obama administration considering strikes on Assad, again. Rogan states, however, “there’s little prospect President Obama will ultimately approve them.”
Hillary Clinton will. Russia is convinced she wants to go to war against them. That is a reasonable conclusion based on her saber-rattling and the advisors she’s chosen.
So I ask my friends who say we have a moral obligation to vote for HRC in order to stop the evil that would be Trump: What about a duty to stop the woman who’s chomping at the bit for WWIII?
Mona
“…….What about a duty to stop the woman who’s chomping at the bit for WWIII?…..”
As much as I detest HRC, even I realize how ridiculous your statement is.
Have the White Helmets saved tens of thousands of lives Mona including the lives of thousands of children? You need to revisit the point of the article by Mr. Hussain which was humanitarian – something for some reason you shun in the Syrian conflict even as you embraced it in Operation Protective Edge. Why are children different in this conflict – and why was it so easy to condemn the IDF in 2014 while you have completely ignored the role of the Assad regime and the Russian military in 2015-16?
ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers — I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him (often; unfortunately he’s spamming) to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria.
Excerpts given.
More reactions by Mona to the war in Gaza. Everything that she applies to Gaza is an order of magnitude worse in Aleppo. Yet she continues to condemn the White Helmets while ignoring the death of hundreds of children and thousands of adults (with much more to come) in Aleppo at the hands of the Russian military and the Assad regime. Indeed, the Assad regime and the Russian military have targeted hospitals, clinics and aid convoys – which Mona blatantly points out in her comments during the Gaza war:
“…….When they kill the child, what they’ve done to the parent is worse than killing them…….”
“…….Truth, and wounded children, reported movingly by CNN.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/standard.html?/video/world/2014/07/19/dnt-wedeman-death-comes-early-in-gaza.cnn&video_referrer=…..”
“…….Israel is blowing the heads off of babies and targeting ambulances. Israel is evil…….”
“…….Five ambulances directly hit by IDF tanks and F-16s……”
“…….This graphic picture shows the unspeakable mutilation of a dead girl child, held by her enraged father:
https://twitter.com/israelwc1/status/490738975662166016
I don’t know what to do?…..”
“…….I’m in tears, and I didn’t see that picture correctly. It’s, I believe, a policeman holding the girl……”
“……The IDF is fucking killing Gazan children…..”
Where is that same heart felt emotion for Syrian children being murdered at the hands of the Assad regime and the Russian military? Instead Mona is dead set on exposing the White Helmets as politically motivated even though no one on this thread has disproved or even challenged that they have saved tens of thousands of Syrians including thousands of children. This particular topic exposes Mona’s hypocrisy.
This excerpt is from James Peck’s 2011 book, ‘Ideal Illusions.’ It extensively discusses USAID projects and other NGOs “promoting” human rights and “democracy” in various nations.
Peck explores how how, decade after decade, tragic tableaus are laid before the public to tug at the collective heartstrings so it will support a fundamentally imperial enterprise. To that end, Peck asks us to (my emphasis):
What do Syrians themselves think? Polling is, of course, difficult in the midst of a heinous and bloody civil war. A poll from last year gives only some idea (link to original .pdf poll, quote from article describing results):
Most interestingly:
More reactions by Mona to the war in Gaza. Everything that she applies to Gaza is an order of magnitude worse in Aleppo. Yet she continues to condemn the White Helmets while ignoring the death of hundreds of children and thousands of adults (with much more to come) in Aleppo at the hands of the Russian military and the Assad regime. Indeed, the Assad regime and the Russian military have targeted hospitals, clinics and aid convoys – which Mona blatantly points out in her comments during the Gaza war:
“…….When they kill the child, what they’ve done to the parent is worse than killing them…….”
“…….Truth, and wounded children, reported movingly by CNN.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/standard.html?/video/world/2014/07/19/dnt-wedeman-death-comes-early-in-gaza.cnn&video_referrer=…..”
“…….Israel is blowing the heads off of babies and targeting ambulances. Israel is evil…….”
“…….Five ambulances directly hit by IDF tanks and F-16s……”
“…….This graphic picture shows the unspeakable mutilation of a dead girl child, held by her enraged father:
https://twitter.com/israelwc1/status/490738975662166016
I don’t know what to do?…..”
“…….I’m in tears, and I didn’t see that picture correctly. It’s, I believe, a policeman holding the girl……”
“……The IDF is fucking killing Gazan children…..”
Where is that same heart felt emotion for Syrian children being murdered at the hands of the Assad regime and the Russian military? Instead Mona is dead set on exposing the White Helmets as politically motivated even though no one on this thread has disproved or even challenged that they have saved tens of thousands of Syrians including thousands of children. This particular topic exposes Mona’s hypocrisy.
More reactions by Mona to the war in Gaza. Everything that she applies to Gaza is an order of magnitude worse in Aleppo. Yet she continues to condemn the White Helmets while ignoring the death of hundreds of children and thousands of adults (with much more to come) in Aleppo at the hands of the Russian military and the Assad regime. Indeed, the Assad regime and the Russian military have targeted hospitals, clinics and aid convoys (quotes from Mona during the war in Gaza):
“…….When they kill the child, what they’ve done to the parent is worse than killing them…….”
“…….Truth, and wounded children, reported movingly by CNN.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/standard.html?/video/world/2014/07/19/dnt-wedeman-death-comes-early-in-gaza.cnn&video_referrer=…..”
“…….Israel is blowing the heads off of babies and targeting ambulances. Israel is evil…….”
“…….Five ambulances directly hit by IDF tanks and F-16s……”
“…….This graphic picture shows the unspeakable mutilation of a dead girl child, held by her enraged father:
https://twitter.com/israelwc1/status/490738975662166016
I don’t know what to do?…..”
“…….I’m in tears, and I didn’t see that picture correctly. It’s, I believe, a policeman holding the girl……”
“……The IDF is fucking killing Gazan children…..”
Where is that same heart felt emotion for Syrian children being murdered at the hands of the Assad regime and the Russian military? Instead, we hear that the White Helmets are politically motivated regardless of the fact that no one on this thread can dispute that they have saved tens of thousands of lives and the lives of thousands of children. Mona could not possibly be more hypocritical.
ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers — I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria.
Excerpts given.
I can safely tell you one thing Mona. You are not getting away with your hypocrisy concerning your willingness to ignore the atrocities committed by the Russian military and the Assad regime in Syria (something the Intercept has managed to do for 2-3 years). You just aren’t even if I am on this thread the next 24 hours. No amount of “please scroll past Craig Summers” is going to get me off of this thread. I will keep posting and posting until you finally recognize how hypocritical and wrong you are. Even DocHollywood understands the atrocities committed by Assad and Putin:
“…….Nonetheless, the Syrian and Russian militaries are deliberately bombing hospitals and civilians [see: MSF (Médecins Sans Frontiers) urges Syrian government and its allies to stop indiscriminate bombing in Aleppo, 30 September 2016 and MSF stops sharing Syria hospital locations after ‘deliberate’ attacks, 18 February 2016……”
You are entirely wrong Mona. So get used to me, OK?
As Part I of Max Blumenthal’s examination of Syria, The Syria Campaign and etc. did, Max’s Part II has caused fierce battles on Twitter. Rania Khalek is, of course, right in there:
ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers — I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria.
Excerpts given.
I can safely tell you one thing Mona. You are not getting away with your hypocrisy concerning your willingness to ignore the atrocities committed by the Russian military and the Assad regime in Syria (something the Intercept has managed to do for 2-3 years). You just aren’t even if I am on this thread the next 24 hours. No amount of “please scroll past Craig Summers” is going to get me off of this thread. I will keep posting and posting until you finally recognize how hypocritical and wrong you are. Even DocHollywood understands the atrocities committed by Assad and Putin:
“…….Nonetheless, the Syrian and Russian militaries are deliberately bombing hospitals and civilians [see: MSF (Médecins Sans Frontiers) urges Syrian government and its allies to stop indiscriminate bombing in Aleppo, 30 September 2016 and MSF stops sharing Syria hospital locations after ‘deliberate’ attacks, 18 February 2016……”
You are entirely wrong Mona. So get used to me, OK?
Money quotes from Mona taken from the Max Blumenthal link:
“…….Yet the group is anything but impartial. The White Helmets’ leadership is driven by a pro-interventionist agenda conceived by the Western governments and public relations groups that back them. Anyone who visits the group’s website—which is operated by an opposition-funded PR company known as the Syria Campaign—will be immediately directed to a request to sign a petition for a no-fly zone to “stop the bombs” in Syria……”
And a no fly zone is the interventionist policy supported by the White Helmets? According to al-Jazeera this morning:
“……According to Fadela Chaib, spokeswoman for the World Health Organization, at least 342 people, including 106 children, had been killed in eastern Aleppo between September 23 and October 2. A further 1,129 people, including 261 children, had been wounded…..”
Holy fuck Mona, can you figure out why the White Helmets support a no fly zone? Blumenthal is a blooming idiot!
ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers — I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him to see the actual discussion. Especially just below is my link to Max Blumenbthal’s Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria.
Excerpts given.
I can safely tell you one thing Mona. You are not getting away with your hypocrisy concerning your willingness to ignore the atrocities committed by the Russian military and the Assad regime in Syria (something the Intercept has managed to do for 2-3 years). You just aren’t even if I am on this thread the next 24 hours. No amount of “please scroll past Craig Summers” is going to get me off of this thread. I will keep posting and posting until you finally recognize how hypocritical and wrong you are. Even DocHollywood understands the atrocities committed by Assad and Putin:
“…….Nonetheless, the Syrian and Russian militaries are deliberately bombing hospitals and civilians [see: MSF (Médecins Sans Frontiers) urges Syrian government and its allies to stop indiscriminate bombing in Aleppo, 30 September 2016 and MSF stops sharing Syria hospital locations after ‘deliberate’ attacks, 18 February 2016……”
You are entirely wrong Mona. So get used to me, OK?
In another story out of al Jazeera (“Syrian child ‘treated with mud’ for severe burn wounds”), Russian and Syrian regime have been accused by Human Rights Watch of using incendiary weapons against civilians:
“……….Upsetting images have been released of a badly burned child in a rebel-held area of Syria…….”After the bombing by war planes stopped, they began firing napalm,” a doctor in the district said. “Some of the patients were burned.”……….One video shows a young boy writhing in pain as a man rubs mud on to the child’s head before removing his bandages and rubbing the thick sludge into his wounds……..Two children were killed and at least five others wounded by the napalm-like incendiary weapons, Nedal said……”We have had two child fatalities and another five children were seriously wounded by the use of napalm,”…….. “At least 20 adults have also been injured by napalm,” ……..Homs’ al-Waer neighbourhood has been under government siege for more than three years, with residents of the rebel-held area deprived of food and aid supplies while also being prevented from leaving due to heavy shelling and bombardment……..Incendiary weapons have caused more deaths in Syria than chemical weapons and can cause horrific burns much like those inflicted by napalm dropped from US planes during the Vietnam War……..there is an international agreement forbidding the use of incendiary weapons in areas with a large civilian presence, it has only been signed by 113 countries……Syria has not signed up to the agreement, known as Protocol III of the Convention of Conventional Weapons…….Earlier this month, the New York-based Human Rights Watch accused Syrian government forces and their Russian allies of repeatedly using incendiary weapons against civilians in rebel-held parts of northern Syria……..”
Where is Mona when children are dying in Syria? She is dead set on exposing that the White Helmets are politically motivated while hypocritically neglecting the children being killed by Russian and regime war planes. Here are a couple of quotes from Mona during the war in Gaza:
“……GAZA CITY (Ma’an) — A toddler was killed and dozens of other Palestinians were injured in a Gaza City hospital late Thursday as an Israeli bomb struck the area, medics said…..Ibrahim al-Sheikh Omar, two-and-a-half years old, was in the ICU of Muhammad al-Durra hospital when an Israeli strike hit outside…..Medical sources said the boy was hit by shrapnel from the explosion, killing him on the spot…….”
“…….Gazan children, most likely to be killed, live in constant horror and fear. Disturbing (but no dead kids) photo: https://twitter.com/intifada/status/491737065298857984/photo/1……”
Mona is remarkably callous in Syria regarding children. Hmmmm, sounds political.
Max Blumenthal, Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria
Some money quotes:
Blumenthal attended a D.C. soiree held for White Helmets, presided over by “Frederick Hof, the director of the Hariri center, a former adviser to Hillary Clinton on Syrian “transition” and a longtime State Department envoy in the Middle East.”
Many reasonable people probably refuse to speak to Max. What does that prove?
No one has answered the question yet. Does anyone dispute that the White Helmets have saved tens of thousands of Syrian civilians? Or is all just bullshit? You care to answer the question Doug Salzmann? Mona? evilPole? jp? James?
shame on you the intercept – when a story about evil russkies throwing newborns out from incubators?
Don’t fck with Russians my Yankee friends. This time you gonna see some mighty powerful mushroom clouds above your cities. Grow some balls, make sure that your psychotic politicians stop killing brown people, and get you murderous soldateska back home. You are the Nazis of the 21st century and the world have had it with you.
Bullsh*t. The “White Helmets” are in favor of a “no-fly zone”, which is, of course, part of the US neocon propaganda push toward WWIII:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/white_helmets_international_heroes_syria_military_intervention_20161004
What good they do is heavily offset by the fact that they want to turn the whole place into a desert by getting into a war with Russia.
Yes, the Intercept really embarrassed itself by posting this propaganda.
Yes.
People like Maz Hussain in the above article would have us believe these are all just valiant “rescue workers.” But they are deeply political actors.
Hillary Clinton is likely to be the next President of the United States and she takes a different approach than Obama does. Her rhetoric about Russia has been quite bellicose, and she’s chosen advisors who share that outlook.
Russia believes she wants to go to war with them. A NFZ would be a direct provocation of Russia. She has evaded answering questions about whether the U.S. should shoot down Russian planes if the fly anyway, stating coyly: “I don’t think it would come down to that.”
She expects they’d blink. Notwithstanding that they believe they have vital interests at stake. What do we do when our “vital interests” are threatened?
These people are flirting with WWIII. That’s what the White Helmets are necessarily willing to do.
So did Napoleon and Hitler.
US backed sanctions on Iraq killed between 500,000 and 1,000,000 children under the age of 5 according to NGOs. Explain to me which world leader thought that bloodbath would be a good idea.
Well, Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright definitely though it was.
And it wasn’t just NGOs that accepted those numbers and were horrified by them. Two UN directors of humanitarian operations in Iraq, who oversaw the “oil for food” program — Denis Halliday in 1998 and Hans von Sponeck in 2000 — quit in protest.
von Sponeck:
There is an article in the Middle East Eye by David Hearst titled “Good time for a bloodbath in Aleppo? Putin thinks so”. Here is an exert to give some idea of the potential “bloodbath” as Russia attempts to finish the war:
“…….Russian generals also think they have done Aleppo before. For anyone who witnessed the bombardment of Grozny – in 1994 and 2000 – the pictures coming out of east Aleppo are nothing new…….The use of thermobaric or vacuum bombs (bursts which suck the oxygen out of the air within a 500-metre radius), phosphorus, “double tap” strikes, deniable militias, the targeting of hospitals, market places, mosques, anywhere where civilians gather in war time – all this Russia has tried before in Chechnya…….”
Better watch out for the dangerous White Helmets though. They are funded by the US and supposedly support a No Fly Zone. Can you imagine that? They have been bombed from the air by Assad for the last five years, and by Russia for the last year! And those fucking idiots want a no fly zone?
OK time for the Russian bots to respond…….
A “no fly zone” means a larger war.
Tell me what business the US and its allies have supporting a war within a sovereign state–in this case Syria?
Jay
“…..A “no fly zone” means a larger war…….”
Put yourself in their place Jay. They have (according to White Helmets) lost 167 employees. What the fuck do you expect them to favor? As it is they are constantly being bombed by Russian and Assad aircraft. Of course they favor a no fly zone!!!!!! And Jay, there have been 400,000 people killed already. What exactly do you mean a wider war? Presumably that means that tensions could significantly ratchet up between the US and Russia, but I doubt more innocent people would die as a result. In fact, more might be saved but at a risk.
Your middle-east coverage is getting more and more questionable. Max Blumenthal exposed these folks (twice in Alternet) as part of a right-wing campaign to get a no-fly zone (Hillary’s and the Pentagon’s plan) in Syria, as the first step in regime change again. This includes possible military conflict with Russia and direct ground fighting with Assad.
I’ll bet you can’t wait for Hillary.
I’m saddened to see The Intercept publishing neocon propaganda. Another news site I can no longer trust.
This is the same Intercept reporter who claimed that the Sanders campaign tossed Palestinian supporters out a of a Boston event for some banner with a pro-Palestinian message.
Except the video showed no such thing. The banner was NOT in the video.
As far as I know the Intercept never corrected this “error”.
Here are a couple of quotes from Mona during the last Gaza war:
“……GAZA CITY (Ma’an) — A toddler was killed and dozens of other Palestinians were injured in a Gaza City hospital late Thursday as an Israeli bomb struck the area, medics said…..Ibrahim al-Sheikh Omar, two-and-a-half years old, was in the ICU of Muhammad al-Durra hospital when an Israeli strike hit outside…..Medical sources said the boy was hit by shrapnel from the explosion, killing him on the spot…….”
“…….Gazan children, most likely to be killed, live in constant horror and fear. Disturbing (but no dead kids) photo: https://twitter.com/intifada/status/491737065298857984/photo/1……”
Fast forward to the war in Syria. Mona’s concern is the funding of the White Helmets. The amount of children being killed in hospitals and neighborhoods by the Assad regime and Russian bombers isn’t even worth mentioning by Mona even though a minimum of 106 children were killed in the 10 day period between September 23 and October 2nd. Some children just mean more than others I guess. In addition, she refuses to respond to the question of whether she believes that the White Helmets have saved tens of thousands of lives – including thousands of children. If she cannot dispute those numbers, why is this not important?
Classic far left wing hypocrisy exposed.
I’m not concerned with the debates amongst the commenters that go on here. My comments are general:
Hypocrisy is a result of the human self seeing other-ness, which is an illusion since in reality, there’s no otherness, for our essence is the same: If you kill one person, it’s like killing the entire humanity.
In this state, the self identifies more with the “us” than with the “other,”, since it is still struggling to see things through the higher self, which sees oneness.
As a result, when “we” kill innocent people (even children), we humans have the capacity to make excuses or try to justify it somehow and refuse to condemn it, or even blame those whose innocent people “we” are slaughtering.
We see the manifestation of the self seeing other-ness on a regular basis.
“……As a result, when “we” kill innocent people (even children), we humans have the capacity to make excuses or try to justify it somehow and refuse to condemn it, or even blame those whose innocent people “we” are slaughtering……”
I agree Sufi. We take sides for various reasons. In this case, it is driven by politics. We are all advocates and all of us bury parts of the truth to make our side look more “right”.
Thanks.
“…it is driven by politics.”
——
Which is why I don’t like politics — it makes it very hard to experience, and manifest, the higher self.
you write a lot… BS…
but… i want to hear you on this one…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo&t=3m08s
I linked the youtube video back to a website called “Hands Off Syria”. There was an article titled “Syria’s Heroic Fight Against Western Imperialism”. They must have been talking about the part where the Arab Spring demonstators threw down their protest signs and attacked the Syria military unprovoked setting off the civil war. How do you publish an article in the face of such a brutal crackdown on peaceful demonstrators – and call the Syria government “heroic”? That was more than enough to call this all bullshit.
Thanks Jack.
It’s myth that the 2011 protests were simply peaceful.
Yes, and Craig is especially keen to bait me into replying to his endless walls of bilge. But I rarely substantively reply to him, and won’t waste my time or annoy other readers by doing so now. (Replying to Craig frequently has the unpleasant result of causing him to plaster the board with one massive wall of tedious, tendentious text after another.)
For someone you claim to ignore you seem to be unable to stop mentioning him. too funny.
Didn’t you see, Gil, how desperate Craig is to get me to reply to his various insane allegations about me? Instead, when some new soul thinks he’s engaging a rational person in Craig, I reply to that person. I also let new readers know that I do not substantively reply to Craig — that’s the best thing to do to indicate his shit is just that without inspiring yet more endless spewing from him.
And I’ll continue in that course. Even if you think it constitutes “mentioning” him in a manner you find “too funny.” (You declare that a lot, Gil. Try mixing up your phrasing a bit, huh? Maybe: “how amusing?” To be more interesting.)
What allegations about you has Craig made Mona?
Have I written to funny more then you wrote you are ignoring Craig? I don’t think it’s even close even counting this additional. Too funny!!!!
Mona only ignores me when I ask questions she cannot answer – and this gives her a way out from debating the issues. But you are right GilG, she rarely ignores me.
No one can or has impugned the fact-rich Max Blumenthal article
This one: Inside the Shadowy PR Firm That’s Lobbying for Regime Change in Syria
As is the case allover the Internet, we’re seeing lots of non sequiturs about Palestinians and USAID, ad hominems about allegedly faux humanitarianism, and allegations of Russian trolls. But no addressing Blumenthal’s facts and reasoning.
“Things that make you go hmmm.”
ATTENTION READERS: Please scroll past Craig Summers
I and others usually ignore him for being an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter who posts massive walls of drivel. Skip past him to see the actual discussion.
That’s right Mona. No one wants to hear anything about Russian and regime war crimes at the Intercept. They certainly don’t want to see your non responses to simple questions like can you dispute that tens of thousands of Syrians have been saved by the White Helmets – including thousands of children. They certainly don’t want to hear that even the great Max Blumenthal doesn’t dispute those numbers. Skip on by fair radical leftists and Russian bots…….
Lol. I figured that out after part of one of his posts! And scroll past him (or…) I do. And anyone like him.
According to Al-Jazeera this morning:
“…….United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra’ad al Hussein warned Russia on Tuesday over the use of incendiary weapons in Syria’s besieged rebel enclave of eastern Aleppo, and said crimes by one side did not justify illegal acts by the other…….. Hundreds of civilians have been killed or injured in air strikes since the collapse of the latest ceasefire and the Syrian government’s announcement last month of a Russia-backed offensive to retake Aleppo…….. Repeated attacks on civilian infrastructure, including hospitals, have drawn international condemnation – and accusations of war crimes……. According to Fadela Chaib, spokeswoman for the World Health Organization, at least 342 people, including 106 children, had been killed in eastern Aleppo between September 23 and October 2. A further 1,129 people, including 261 children, had been wounded…….Those figures were based on reports from functioning health centres and the true figures were probably much higher, Chaib said…….”
Of course, pro-Assad Russian-bots and (faux-human rights) radical leftists would rather discuss funding of the White Helmets, but it is clear who the terrorists are in this war. No one as yet has posted any information which disputes the courageous work of the White Helmets, however including the fraud Doug Salzmann or Mona.
This is a very telling exchange between GKJames and Doug Salzmann near the beginning of the thread which exposes Salzmann as a phony and fraud – and his arguments as disingenuous if not outright idiotic [my notes in brackets]:
GKJames ? Doug Salzmann
Oct. 1 2016, 6:38 p.m.
Taking advantage of and creating are different things, just as hoping for regime change isn’t the same as bringing it about. Assad did just fine on his own in stoking the murderous fratricide we’re seeing. And even if someone provided facts (vs. suppositions and innuendos) that US policy in Syria is aimed at controlling the country’s oil, what would they have to do with — let alone justify — Russian and Syrian bombing of civilians and hospitals?
? Reply
[Notice the first line of Doug’s response below “Oh, well, just this once, for shits and grins”. Basically, Doug is talking down to GKJames somewhat like ”you idiot, you are way out of your league”]
Doug Salzmann ? GKJames
Oct. 1 2016, 8:05 p.m.
Oh, well, just this once, for shits and grins:
“…….Taking advantage of and creating are different things…..”-GKJames
Yes they are, and the West took advantage of the Arab Spring and drought/urban migration/economic distress protests and Assad’s typically harsh response to create the reality of a Syrian civil war.
“……just as hoping for regime change isn’t the same as bringing it about…..”-GKJames
Right again, but you’d have to be unusually dense and ignorant of recent history to argue that the US and its allies have merely been hoping for regime change in Syria. Do you ever read the news?
“……Assad did just fine on his own in stoking the murderous fratricide we’re seeing…….”-GKJames
Whatever Assad has done, it has certainly not been “on his own.” Again, familiarizing yourself with news, recent history and current events would probably improve the quality of your comments and, thus, your credibility.
“……..And even if someone provided facts (vs. suppositions and innuendos) that US policy in Syria is aimed at controlling the country’s oil……” – GKJames
Syria doesn’t have enough oil for the big boys to worry about controlling. It accounts for, maybe, half of one percent of world oil exports. On the other hand, which of two pipelines through its territory Syria chooses to support is a very big deal for the Masters of the Universe and Syria chose the one the Masters didn’t like. You can look it up (doing your own research is character-building). Hint: Google “pipelineistan” and “Escobar.”
“……what would they have to do with —
let alone justify — Russian and Syrian bombing of civilians and hospitals?……”
When you start wars, that act (starting wars) has everything to do with the horrors of war that follow. That’s why “[p]lanning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances” is a crime (a “crime against peace”) under international law. See Principle VI of the Nuremberg Principles.
As for “justification,” after you catch up on news, current events and modern history, review the basics of logical fallacies. You can start with the informal fallacy known as the “straw man.”
? Reply
GKJames ? Doug Salzmann
Oct. 2 2016, 3:38 a.m.
Washington created (started) the civil war in Syria on account of a pipeline decision. Washington, therefore, is responsible for “the horrors of war that follow” including, near as I can tell, the targeting decisions of Moscow and Damascus. Do I have that right? If so, could you cite the legal principle that immunizes a war’s non-starting party against liability for its targeting of civilians and hospitals?
? Reply
[Notice on the response by Salzmann below how he tries to first claim that GKJames is not knowledgeable i.e., needs to catch up on the news before he can carry on a debate with Doug, and second, that GKJames’s argument is a strawman using language meant to confuse GKJames]
Doug Salzmann ? GKJames
Oct. 2 2016, 9:33 a.m.
As for “justification,” after you catch up on news, current events and modern history, review the basics of logical fallacies. You can start with the informal fallacy known as the “straw man.”
? Reply
[GKJames is not buying it though and simply ask Doug again why the targeting of civilians and hospitals is the fault of Washington]
GKJames ? Doug Salzmann
Oct. 2 2016, 11:10 a.m.
Apologies, but I have no idea what that means. What’s an “informal fallacy”? But assuming it’s something important — it certainly sounds weighty — how does it relate to the question at hand: What legal principle absolves Moscow and Damascus from liability for targeting civilians and hospitals in a civil war that you said was caused by Washington?
[Doug doesn’t respond because he cannot, but it does show that he is a phony besides the incredibly stupid assertion that the US is responsible for the Assad regime and Russian bombing of civilians and hospitals (war crimes). I love how GKJames said that “informal fallacy ”sounded weighty” because the goal of Doug was simply to sound extremely intelligent hoping GKJames would be intimidated and go away. He didn’t and he won this argument in a big way]
After reading many of these comments by people who claim to humanists and yet see the bad guys as those rescuing children from bombed buildings the reading the NY Times article which documents the Russian pro Putin teams of internet trolls, the origin of many of the posts here is now evident.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html?_r=0
“The Russians are coming!”
Gil, we’re going to have to send you down to the minors. You need to do some serious work on fundamentals before you have a chance to make it in this league.
Lol, Doug posts before even reading the article. hmmm
Besides Doug you missed the point of my post. The paid Russian trolls are already here.
Like who? Except for you, everybody else left here has been active in GLenn Greenwald’s space for many years — even Craig’s been around for 4-5. Well before any alleged Russian troll phenomenon. So who do you think these trolls could be?
Thats perfect timimg actually, the group the article exposes began paying trolls in the fall of 2011.
So, you think Craig might be a paid Russian troll? That’s some seriously advanced 11th-dimensional chess those sneaky Russkies are playing.
Nope, the paid Russian trolls are involved in calling any critical mention of Russia McCarthyism, and are more concerned with vilifying rescue groups and PR company links then the deaths of Syrian children.
Does that sound like anyone you know Doug?
I’ve been commenting in Glenn’s space since 2005, and Doug nearly as long. Well before 2011.
But you don’t really think either he or I is a Russian troll. You just threw that out there.
Is this dishonest use of non sequitur an example of the type of temperament necessary to evaluating the integral structure of logic? Again, you are full of shit.
You are about as big a fraud as I have seen on these threads Doug.
Doug is one of Mona’s sock puppets…
You are a demented rightwing, Christian, white racist who is annoyed at me for upsetting your racist pretensions. Craig is an authoritarian wingnut of a somewhat different , not religious type. You are great comrades.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/04/overthrowing-the-syrian-government-a-joint-criminal-enterprise/
“Efraim Inbar, director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies:
“The West should seek the further weakening of Islamic State, but not its destruction… Allowing bad guys to kill bad guys sounds very cynical, but it is useful and even moral to do so if it keeps the bad guys busy and less able to harm the good guys… Moreover, instability and crises sometimes contain portents of positive change… The American administration does not appear capable of recognizing the fact that IS can be a useful tool in undermining Tehran’s ambitious plan for domination of the Middle East.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
The 2013 report from Jerusalem: “as hopes have dimmed for the emergence of a moderate, secular rebel force that might forge democratic change and even constructive dialogue, with Israel, a third approach has gained traction: Let the bad guys burn themselves out.
‘The perpetuation of the conflict is absolutely serving Israel’s interest,’ said Nathan Thrall, a Jerusalem-based analyst for the International Crisis Group.” The plain truth is that Syria is the victim of a long-planned Joint Criminal Enterprise to destroy the last independent secular Arab nationalist state in the Middle East, following the destruction of Iraq in 2003. While attributed to government repression of “peaceful protests” in 2011, the armed uprising had been planned for years and was supported by outside powers: Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the United States and France, among others. The French motives remain mysterious, unless linked to those of Israel, which sees the destruction of Syria as a means to weaken its archrival in the region, Iran. Saudi Arabia has similar intentions to weaken Iran, but with religious motives. Turkey, the former imperial power in the region, has territorial and political ambitions of its own. Carving up Syria can satisfy all of them.
This blatant and perfectly open conspiracy to destroy Syria is a major international crime, and the above-mentioned States are co-conspirators. They are joined in this Joint Criminal Enterprise by ostensibly “humanitarian” organizations like Avaaz” and “White helmets:” http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/02/the-white-helmets-campaign-for-war-not-peace-rla-and-nobel-peace-prize-nomination-should-be-retracted/
Can anyone on this thread dispute that the White Helmets have literally saved tens of thousands of Syrian lives? In the link to a Blumenthal article, Max in no way provides any evidence that the White Helmets are frauds, or corrupt or that they have saved countless Syrian civilian lives at great personal risk from the ruthless and brutal bombings by the Assad regime and the Russian military. Over 160 White Helmets have been killed during rescue operations.
The Assad regime and the Russians are targeting civilians, hospitals, clinics and aid convoys – as reported by the same media propaganda outlets identified by Doug Salzmann below. Is this all false? Is the 2015-16 Amnesty International report on the Assad regime’s war crimes false also (posted below)?
On these threads, you see a concerted effort to hijack the discussion and discredit the White Helmets. No where does anyone (including Max Blumenthal) dispute the courageous work of the White Helmets and how many lives they have saved – or the ruthless and brutal bombings of civilians by the Russians and the Assad regime identified as war crimes by AI. None of that is disputed by Blumenthal.
You cannot in any way change the facts on the ground which is that Assad started the war by brutally assaulting and murdering hundreds of peaceful demonstrators and has committed an untold amount of war crimes (see Amnesty International and UN reports) including the use of chemical weapons on civilians. Pictures smuggled out of Syria indicate that the Assad regime has literally through starvation, torture, neglect and execution murdered tens of thousands of detainees. The Assad regime has used food and starvation as a weapon against civilians. He has dropped thousands of barrel bombs on civilians. Assad (and more recently the Russians) have attacked and bombed hospitals, field clinics and aid convoys. No one in the “blame America first” crowd of radical leftists and Russian bots can dispute these obvious and ruthless war crimes committed by the Assad regime and Russian bombers. The attempt by the idiots on the left to cling to any narrative that absolves Syria and Russia of their complicity in the targeting and murder of countless civilians is laughable.
… who broke the ceasefire?
Truth always is the first casualty of war. And the 400.001th casualty in the Syrian (proxy) war with this article. I’m sorry Murtaza. The Intercept has been intercepted. The only question remaining is by who?
Compared to US backed dictators Assad is a saint. Just ask the people in the Middle East. Fact.
NATO/GCC/Israel have invested billions and billions of dollars to topple Assad through sanctions, information warfare and kinetic warfare with the most vile terrorists as strategic partners. There is too much at stake, from US hegemony to access to the European and Asian energy markets.
This conflict will shape the world our children will live in. Light or darkness. Good or evil. “Barbarics” or “moderate opposition”.Take your pick.
Good luck with the poisoned well that is called journalism and the smoke and mirrors of the most advanced information warfare in the history of mankind (don’t be evil Google…).
From Global News (Canada) 10-3-2016
All I can say in response to this Western media propaganda onslaught on behalf of al-Qaeda is that I hope Russia’s pilots have orders not to shoot until they see “the white of their helmets”.
From al Arabiya 10-2-2016:
They are a PR firm advocating regime change and war with Russia. http://www.alternet.org/world/inside-shadowy-pr-firm-thats-driving-western-opinion-towards-regime-change-syria
STATEMENT REQUESTING THE RETRACTION OF THE RIGHTS LIVELIHOOD AWARD, GIVEN TO THE WHITE HELMETS.
“My name is Vanessa Beeley. I am an independent investigative journalist, writer and photographer. I have recently returned from a four week stay in Syria from 24 July until 26th August. The first week, I went as a member of the US Peace Council delegation, and the subsequent three weeks I traveled independently to as many governorates as possible, including Aleppo, in order to continue my own investigation into the organisation known as the White Helmets.
My conclusion, after my eighteen-month long analysis and research into this organisation is that they are a US and UK Foreign Office construct, funded and equipped by nations that have a proven vested interest in their stated policy of regime change in Syria & a clear geopolitical agenda in the region.
The White Helmets claim to be neutral and ‘non-aligned,’ yet they actively promote and lobby for US/NATO state intervention, including a ‘No Fly Zone’ which violates Syrian sovereignty. The majority of legal scholars agree that enforcing a No Fly Zone is construed as an act of war. This is in direct violation of the fundamental principles which underpin authentic humanitarian work and certainly not deserving of the Rights Livelihood Award.
I respectfully request that the members of the Rights Livelihood Award committee review their award of this prestigious award to the organisation known as the White Helmets.
I believe strongly that this award has been given in error, perhaps because not enough evidence was presented to the committee. I ask the committee to consider the following, documented, and supported evidence:
The White Helmets claim to be a “neutral, impartial, humanitarian NGO, with no official affiliation to any political or military actor and a commitment to render services to any in need regardless of sect or political affiliation.” I will now present evidence that should demonstrate the illegitimacy of these claims:
1: The White Helmets receive funding from UK ($65m via UK Foreign Office), US (US State Dept via USAID $ 23m), Holland ($ 4.5m), Germany ($ 7.87m) and Japan (undisclosed sum from the Intl Cooperation Agency), Denmark (undisclosed sum) – via the Mayday Rescue “foundation” that was set up by the British ex-military trainer of the White Helmets in order to transfer funding to the White Helmets. The White Helmets also receive equipment and supplies from various EU member states. This funding is concealed behind the generic heading of “Emergency Health and Relief Support to the Population Affected by the Crisis in Syria”, through the Directorat e-General for European Civil Protection and Humanitarian Aid Operations (DG-ECHO), formerly known as the European Community Humanitarian Aid Office.
2: The White Helmets were established in Gaziantep, Turkey, not in Syria. They are largely trained in Turkey and Jordan, not inside Syria.
3: The White Helmets are embedded exclusively in areas of Syria occupied by listed terrorist organisations including Nusra Front and ISIS, along with various associated ‘moderate rebels’ such as Ahrar al Sham and Nour Al Din Zinki. All these groups are responsible for carrying out ethnic cleansing operations and mass executions of the Syrian people. Nour Al Din Zinki was recently videoed beheading 12 year-old Palestinian child, Abdullah Issa. Like the White Helmets, all of these terrorist factions receive funding, training, equipment and support from the United States and its Coalition partners. A fact that is extensively documented.
4: During the situation in Madaya, Syria in January 2016, the White Helmets in Idlib were photographed attending demonstrations & carrying banners that were calling for the “burning and destruction” of the towns of Kafarya and Foua. These are two Idlib villages under full siege by Ahrar Al Sham & Nusra Front (Al Qaeda in Syria) since March 2015, partial siege since 2012. The siege ensures the starvation of villagers and daily shelling and sniping by Ahrar Al Sham and Nusra Front has killed over 1750 civilians during this time.
5: There is video and photographic evidence available that clearly shows the White Helmets participating in Nusra Front operations in the areas occupied or taken over by this organisation. There is one particularly damning video taken during the Nusra Front violent and brutal attack on Idlib City in March 2015. In this video White Helmet operatives are seen clearly beating a Syrian civilian prisoner of Nusra Front and circling the prisoner, mingling with heavily armed and hostile Nusra Front militia. https://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=56xTAYp6zz0
6: The White Helmets have been filmed “clearing up” after a Nusra Front execution of a civilian prisoner in Northern Aleppo. Although the official statement from the White Helmets claims they arrived after the execution, the speed with which they appear (in video) immediately after the prisoner has been shot in the head, demonstrates clearly that they were on the scene and did nothing to prevent it.
7: Various other White Helmet operatives have posted videos of the torture and execution of Syrian Arab Army prisoners to their social media pages with celebratory comments. One such operative, Muawiya Hassan Agha, is alleged to have been “sacked” for his participation in such executions. However, despite various demands, an official statement has never been issued by the White Helmets to this effect. Neither have they publicly condemned the torture and execution of prisoners of war, an act that contravenes the Geneva Convention. Warning graphic footage: https://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=hnY2hlo0x_M
8: The leader of the White Helmets, Raed Saleh, was deported from Dulles Airport in the US, April 2016. No real explanation was ever given for this decision. Mark Toner of the US State Department fielded questions from media but did (i) Admit to funding the group with $ 23m and (ii) suggest that Raed Saleh might have “extremist connections”. Raed Saleh has recently been allowed back into the US in September 2016 and spoke at the UN New York with the Dutch Mission. However, no explanation has been given for this reversal of the previous decision to deport Saleh.
9: The White Helmets are also referred to as the ‘Syria Civil Defence.’ However, there is an existing Syria Civil Defence. The REAL Syria Civil Defence was established in Syria in 1953. I met with crews in Aleppo, Lattakia, Tartous and Damascus during my four weeks in Syria. The REAL Syria Civil Defence were founder members of the ICDO [International Civil Defence Organisation] which is affiliated with the UN, WHO, OCHA, Red Cross, Red Crescent. The REAL Syria Civil Defence are still paying annual subscriptions to the ICDO of 20,000 Swiss Francs. The REAL Syria Civil Defence do operate in both terrorist and government held areas, they operate with equipment that has been decimated by the war & sanctions and they do not receive up to $150 m in funding from the US, UK and EU states. The REAL Syria Civil Defence are recruited and trained inside Syria.
10: During interviews with the REAL Syria Civil Defence, they informed me that the Nusra Front and associated ‘moderate rebels’ who invaded areas such as East Aleppo, Raqqa, Deir Ezzor, Idlib, massacred crew members of the REAL Syria Civil Defence and stole the majority of their equipment in those areas, including fire engines and ambulances. Many of these armed groups then became White Helmet operatives. Testimony from the REAL Syria Civil Defence suggests that the White Helmets are acting as support for Nusra Front, ISIS and other heavily armed militia described as “moderate rebels”.
11: On multiple occasions, the White Helmets have been exposed staging rescue scenes for both photo and video, recycling images of children and incidents from the conflict in Syria, to support their narrative, editing video which misrepresents the scene in question, using images from a previous incident or even fake images altogether. There are many documented instances of this.
12: The White Helmets have been filmed describing Syrian Arab Army bodies as “trash” and one particular video shows them standing on top of a pile of SAA soldier’s bodies, whose boots have been removed or stolen. The White Helmets talk about the bodies in pejorative terms and they flick a victory V sign as the truck drives off.
13: There are many images documented, that reveal the White Helmet operatives carrying arms or posing with arms alongside the various armed militia including Nusra Front. There is also further footage from Idlib showing White Helmet operatives celebrating alongside Nusra Front militia after the massacre of Syrian Arab Army forces and Syrian civilians during this attack.
14: Adulatory publicity about the White Helmets is the result of a multimillion dollar sustained commercial marketing and social media promotional campaign via a network that is funded by George Soros and various US, UK and Middle Eastern enterprises. The PR network is as follows: Avaaz – Purpose – Syria Campaign – White Helmets. The funding and connects back to these organisations and US State-funded entities who have a vested interest in events in Syria. This is also extensively documented.
15: Analysts have observed, the White Helmets achieve on average 4 or 5 videos per day, depicting their heroic rescue efforts. The REAL Syria Civil Defence have evaluated these videos and cast doubt as to the White Helmets being true first responders or USAR (Urban Search and Rescue) experts. They pinpointed various anomalies (i) the equipment used is too heavyweight for the delicate operation of finding bodies beneath collapsed buildings (ii) the treatment of injured bodies is dangerous, they are flung onto stretchers with no back support or neck brace, for example. Many of the paramedic procedures shown on film are also deemed questionable. The White Helmets rarely travel without a sizeable camera team or crew of mobile phone cameramen. The REAL Syria Civil Defence do not.
16: While in Aleppo, I conducted a short video interview with Dr Bassem Hayak of the Aleppo Medical Association, based in West Aleppo. Dr Hayak still has family trapped in East Aleppo. Dr Hayak told me that his family and the majority of civilians in East Aleppo (occupied by Nusra Front and an estimated 22 brigades of armed militants) do not know who the White Helmets are which begs the question, where are they conducting their much promoted humanitarian work? Dr Hayak also said that UN agencies in East Aleppo who work with the Aleppo Medical Association are not aware of the White Helmets.
In summary, this evidence points to the White Helmets being a US, UK, EU creation established in 2013, and not an independent NGO. It is a multi-million dollar US Coalition funded organisation. It is funded by governments involved & invested in the Syrian conflict. No one can rightly call this a grass-roots Syrian organisation.
There is an existing Syria Civil Defence that is being ignored by western media. Running parallel there is a vast fund raising network constructed to collect money which is funnelled into the pseudo White Helmets designed to replace the authentic Syria Civil Defence in the minds of the western public. The REAL Syria Civil Defence is crippled by US and EU sanctions, the White Helmets have never been affected by these sanctions, their supply chain via Turkey is unbroken.
Conservative estimates put White Helmets funding at over $150 million thus far, which is far more than any real NGO would ever require in a decade, much less 3 years. Tax payers in funding countries have a right to know precisely what their money is funding.
The evidence demonstrates that the White Helmets are sectarian not impartial. They are in many instances, armed not unarmed. The promotional material produced for the White Helmets such as the recent Netflix documentary film, was produced outside of Syria, usually in Turkey, and with any field footage supplied by the White Helmets. Who has verified the authenticity of this footage, or photographs?
The White Helmets are feeding images of “humanitarian disaster” and “war crimes” to the very same western nations who are funding them, and to politicians and media outlets who are using these visual narratives, with the explicit purpose of lobbying for a US, UK Foreign Office for a “Safe Zone” or “No Fly Zone” in Syria. Recent history teaches us this No Fly Zone policy carries with it the threat of reducing Syria to a Libya-style “failed state.”
Effectively, this organisation campaigns for an escalation of war in Syria.
Many of their ‘campaigns’ have since been discredited as “war fiction”, and yet they are being used by the US Coalition as justification for continuing and increased economic and diplomatic sanctions, sanctions which are a collective punishment on the Syrian people, while the US coalition continues equipping and arming of the various militia on the ground in Syria, including Nusra Front (al Qaeda in Syria).
This only serves to ensure even more suffering and bloodshed inside Syria.
The presentation of the Right Livelihood Award to the White Helmets will ultimately discredit the Right Livelihood Foundation. More crucially, the awarding of this prize to a suspect and fraudulent organisation serves to perpetuate a western-sponsored conflict in Syria which has only delayed the possibility of any real peaceful resolution.
We call on the leaders of the Right Livelihood Foundation to investigate the evidence presented in this statement and to retract the RLA award, if this evidence is proven sufficient to disqualify the White Helmets.
Thank you for your consideration of this very important matter.”
Vanessa Beeley
US Peace Council member (part of recent US Peace Council delegation to Syria July 2016)”
I was wondering just when the Neoliberal Intercept would start printing blatant propaganda, it wants to be the NYT so badly I guess it just can’t resist.
Really, I don’t think it is possible to be more elite or elitist (or white of management) than the Intercept.
Should be clear to everyone that a news website which takes Neoliberal oligarch money, trades on its association with Snowden, aided him in his decision to “privatize” his archive and capitalize from it and worst of all create a set of extreme white elites with the only access to material which DOES NOT BELONG TO SNOWDEN OR THE INTERCEPT cut off any opportunity for broader input on publication, refusing access to anyone but a chosen few white men.
The subsuming of the Snowden archive into a Neoliberal corporation owned by a white tech oligarch and part of his multi-billion dollar empire, leveraging access to the material into a glitzy new Neoliberal publication with Brand Integrity (not the real thing) is sickening.
It is an affront to society perpetrated by Snowden and his delegates that it refuses access to the material to ANYONE but the chosen elites. I’ll bet someone at, say, Médecins Sans Frontières is honest and trustworthy and fully capable of reviewing Snowden documents and that person might not even be white. Concepts of inclusion, community or the collective simply do not exist at the Intercept – they operate like Margret Thatcher, “Society doesn’t exist.” They, the elites will tell the ignorant unwashed what they need to know – no one else.
The Snowden project/Intercept is a Neoliberal enterprise, elitist in concept and execution.
Glad to see you are on the job exposing those saving children from the buildings, Doug. too funny.
From ABC News 9-30-2016 (video with transcript):
From The Daily Beast 10.03.16 6:17 PM ET:
It’s not an accident that same-themed articles that shore up interventionists articles, and same-themed interventionist tweets and comments, show up nearly simultaneously online. As Max Blumenthal’s article demonstrates, there is a huge PR machine structuring it all:
It’s about regime change folks. And ranting about “conspiracy theories” usually driven by Russia — that’s been the talking point for many months now.
No wonder Max Blumenthal is receiving threats. He’s totally exposed this shit.
that’s quite an intersection
Mona
Do you dispute that the White Helmets have saved thousands (if not tens of thousands of Syrian lives? Do you deny that 167 have died rescuing Syrian civilians? Do you deny that they deserve the Nobel Peace Prize?
I very seldom substantively reply to the authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican and Trump-voter, Craig Summers. A course I shall continue. Please scroll past his comments to read the discussion.
That is not quite correct Mona. You respond indirectly if you can. In this case, you cannot so you pretend that you are doing this for others on the thread.
My, my. From the Graun, 10/3:
Maz Hussain and the editors of TI: Are you aware of any coordinated effort to place pieces like this in widely-read and influential media, as indicated by the Blumenthal piece cited below? Have you been associated with such an effort? If you have not, consciously, been part of such an effort, do you now suspect that you have been included without your knowledge?
It’s become glaringly obvious. Moreover, in the Graun today they ran an adulatory piece on USAID in Gaza and the West Bank. Then, lo, interventionists all over the Internet begin hailing USAID for helping Palestinians and deploying the fact in reply to Blumenthal’s article.
Bah. It’s disgusting. I don’t want to believe Maz is part of such a thing. But at this point I’d need to see him deny it.
I just quickly scanned the comments BTL on the Graun piece. It’s not playing much better there than here (that it, it wasn’t — in fine Graun tradition, they shut them down when the undesirable trend appeared irreversible).
This paragraph, in particular, is what has so many interventionists squawking about USAID giving funds to Palestinians (which is a discussion unto itself, but not on point):
I added the bolding: Does anyone deny that bit is true?
Oops, I failed to state I was quoting Max Blumenthal’s article here.
Besides exploiting the Palestinian cause, the Assad apologists have eagerly played the Al Qaeda card to stoke fears of an Islamic takeover of Syria.
Above all else, Blumenthal is an advocate journalist. His articles are politicized and untrustworthy – especially for what he might omit. In Blumenthal’s book, “Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel.”, he touches deeply on Israel anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab racism. He conducts interviews with various Israelis which he details in his book. No one is going to deny that there is anti-Palestinian/Arab racism in Israel. I have seen it below the line on various sites including UK Media Watch and this site.
Blumenthal is an advocate for the Palestinian cause who supports the one state solution. Had Blumenthal published a book on interviews with Palestinian Arabs , he surely would have found that the Palestinians are at least as racist as the Israelis – if not more so. A Pew poll from 2011 indicates that in Muslim countries, Jews are not viewed favorably.
“……..Ratings for Jews are uniformly low in the predominantly Muslim nations surveyed – in all seven of these nations, less than 10% have a positive opinion of Jews. Indeed, outside of Indonesia, less than 5% offer a positive opinion [of Jews]……” my insertion in brackets
Palestine has the highest (or lowest) rating of viewing Jews favorably. They are the most anti-Semitic (racist) of the Muslim countries surveyed – but of course, they are viewed as “victims”. Even in Indonesia which is a long ways from the Middle East, only 9% of those surveyed have a favorable view of Jews.
You will never find any of this in “Goliath”. He promotes a narrative of the classic European colonial racist because he has a political agenda – just as with the White Helmets.
Among the many points no one has addressed regarding Max Blumenthal’s excellent work on Syria and The Syria Campaign, is what he documents about the Campaign’s UN bashing. that bashing is, of course, a staple for Zionists and neoconservatives in myriad contexts:
I’m close to getting off the fence. Nothing substantive is ever offered in reply to anti-interventionists. Instead, they engage in base attacks and various fallacies. That means they cannot make an actual case for U.S. military intervention in Syria.
When they walk and talk like all the duplicitous warmongers who got us into Iraq and Libya, I’m not going there.
“…….That means they cannot make an actual case for U.S. military intervention in Syria…….”
How many times does do you need to be told? They are already intervening bombing al-Qaeda and ISIS on Syrian soil. But if you are talking about against the Syrian regime then Obama should have bombed the fuck out of him when Assad crossed the red line the first time on chemical weapons. Obama’s “red line” was a disaster – and Assad is still using chemical weapons (Middle East Eye, September 16, 2016; “UN inquiry to blame Syrian military for chlorine gas attacks: Source”):
“………An international inquiry will identify two Syrian air force helicopter squadrons and two other military units responsible for chlorine gas attacks on civilians, a Western diplomat told Reuters on Friday………”
In addition, the 51 diplomats that signed a petition (against the passive position of the Obama administration) suggested bombing Assad’s soldiers when they break the cease fire. That is a possibility. After all, the Russian and Assad militaries are targeting and killing civilians, aid convoys, hospitals and clinics. Remember when Greenwald wrote several articles “outraged” that a US gunship fired on a hospital in Afghanistan causing numerous casualties and deaths. He was outraged? Hardly, just more politicization of casualties. The hypocrisy of the radical left stands out like an African American at a Republican convention.
I very seldom substantively reply to the authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican and Trump-voter, Craig Summers. A course I shall continue. Please scroll past his comments to read the discussion.
Ah, ok. I was perplexed at GilG’s inane “criticism” below of Max Blumenthal’s superb, long-form investigative piece on Syria. Part II of which will address the White Helmets more specifically.
Apparently, the interventionists have decided on the “USAID funds Palestinians!” misdirection:
(I should have known this non sequitur was not original with Gil.)
Max is right, this is all well-coordinated. Complete with PR firms.
yep you sure got me. after writing below about your
“gross dissatisfaction with the way USAID “helps” Palestinians, other than to note a lot of the money goes to, or assists, the Palestinian Authority.”
you link to a Guardian article praising there aid to the Palestinians.
and sure enough the morally consistent Mona cares not a wit for truth just in being a toadett. Mona I believe your motto should be when you don’t have facts lob smears.
Nope. That was in Charles Davis’ tweet. I forgot it would show up as clickable, and should have done this: [Guardian link omitted].
This talking point is showing up among all the usual suspects on Twitter, as I noticed after seeing your puzzling, non sequitur “criticism” of Max’s impressive work. I’m not puzzled any more.
too funny – it’s the only linkable thing in your post and whether you meant to do on purpose or out of ineptness you linked to it non the less.
Yup, I sure did end up linking to it, Gil. Wow, you’ve really shown me and made me — and no doubt one and all — rethink my whole position on Syria and Blumenthal’s piece. [eyes rolling]
I know better then to try and change the mind of someone who doesn’t have an opinion that isn’t given to her by those see toadetts for.
My only interest is the enjoyment I get in exposing you as a charlatan, which I do on a regular basis.
Okay, sounds reasonable does it not? I mean who would have the unmitigated gall to either endorse or challenge the opinions of others on a subject that she admittedly knows little about?
Doh! Apparently after skimming a single article posted on a website that is predominately a bastion of progressive international interventionism (see funding sources), Mona has become an expert on the subject of Syria.
Mona has become so much of an expert in fact that she now feels that she has the right to speak for “Maz” in explaining what motivated him to post such trash.
Say what? That’s all that you have been doing on this thread. While attempting to provide a justification for “Maz’s” inexplicable support for a CIA funded anti-Assad proxy, you have been attempting to re-frame the discussion around a Max Blumenthal piece for which you admittedly lack the requisite insight to appreciate, but nevertheless characterize as “superb.”
Fuckin poser! For once, just give it a rest.
Karl, you’re a rightwing, racist Christian nut who is still greatly pissed off that I demonstrated the largest protestant denomination in the United States began apologizing to African-Americans in 1995. The Southern Baptist Convention admitted to support for slavery, segregation, and policies that allowed lynchings to go unchecked.
Rather obviously I have at no point claimed to be an “expert” on Syria. I do, however, hold expertise in religion in America (a BA, and continuing reading), and that has totally fried your ass. So now, from time to time, you bite at my ankles.
You see, Karl, by both temperament and professional training, I am well-qualified to assess the merits of an argument without knowing a great deal about the underlying issue. As such, I’ve assessed Max Blumenthal’s performance on the matter of Syria, and perhaps more importantly, I’ve also assessed the inane and fallacious offerings of virtually all pro-interventionists.
The end.
So… while you specifically characterized Max Blumenthal’s “long-form INVESTIGATIVE piece on Syria” as “superb”, you were actually commenting on the structure of his arguments alone? Utter bullshit!
And again, faulting the veracity of other peoples’ positions on Syria or their opinions concerning the soundness of Max Blumenthal’s perspective on Syria falls within the domain of your godly temperament?
Like I have said before, you are a narcissistic sociopathic pathological liar.
And like *I* have said many times before, if you liked me and approved of my comments, I’d be deeply worried.
In tandem with both his reputation for factual meticulousness, and the wholly meritless “criticisms” of this particular piece. His facts must be sound. No one can or has impugned them.
“……Do note that at the end of Max Blumenthal’s superb investigative piece on Syria, he concludes saying…..” – Mona
“”…….The Truth about the White Helmets as opposed to the Intercept’s propaganda…….” – Jamie
“……..It is a brutal take down and real journalism. Murtaza certainly picked the wrong week to push such lifeless bullshit……” – thelastnamechosen
“……Thanks, Jamie. That’s as thorough, careful and professional as it gets. Blumenthal does it the way it should always be done……..” – Doug Salzmann
Here is some more that the investigative journalist left out of his article (besides what I posted below at 5:44 PM). Amnesty International report 2015-2016 (all that follows):
“……….Government forces carried out indiscriminate attacks and attacks that directly targeted civilians, including bombardment of civilian residential areas and medical facilities with artillery, mortars, barrel bombs and, reportedly, chemical agents, unlawfully killing civilians. Government forces also enforced lengthy sieges, trapping civilians and depriving them of food, medical care and other necessities. Security forces arbitrarily arrested and continued to detain thousands, including peaceful activists, human rights defenders, media and humanitarian workers, and children. Some were subjected to enforced disappearance and others to prolonged detention or unfair trials. Security forces systematically tortured and otherwise ill-treated detainees with impunity; thousands of detainees died as a result of torture and other ill-treatment between 2011 and 2015.
Government and allied forces continued to commit war crimes and other serious violations of international law, including direct attacks on civilians and indiscriminate attacks. Government forces repeatedly attacked areas controlled or contested by armed opposition groups, killing and injuring civilians and damaging civilian objects in unlawful attacks. They carried out indiscriminate attacks and direct attacks on civilian residential areas, including artillery shelling and air strikes, often using unguided, high-explosive barrel bombs dropped from helicopters. The attacks caused numerous civilian deaths and injuries, including of children. For example, a barrel bomb attack on Baideen, Aleppo governorate, on 5 February killed at least 24 civilians and injured 80. An air strike on the Sahat al-Ghanem market in Duma on 16 August killed around 100 civilians and wounded hundreds. Aerial bombing accounted for half of all civilian fatalities, according to the Violations Documentation Center, a Syrian NGO.
Government forces also carried out dozens of suspected chlorine gas attacks in areas controlled by non-state armed groups, particularly in Idleb governorate, causing civilian casualties. In one attack on 16 March, government helicopters reportedly dropped barrels containing chlorine on and around Sermin, Idleb governorate, killing a family of five and injuring around 100 civilians.
Government forces maintained prolonged sieges of predominantly civilian areas in and around Damascus, including Eastern Ghouta, Daraya and Yarmouk, exposing the residents to starvation and denying them access to medical care and other basic services, while subjecting them to repeated air strikes, artillery shelling and other attacks.
Government forces continued to target health facilities and medical workers in areas controlled by armed opposition groups. They repeatedly bombed hospitals and other medical facilities, barred or restricted the inclusion of medical supplies in humanitarian aid deliveries to besieged and hard-to-reach areas, and disrupted or prevented health care provision in these areas by detaining medical workers and volunteers. The NGO Physicians for Human Rights accused government forces of systematically attacking the health care system in areas controlled by armed opposition groups and of responsibility for the deaths of the vast majority of the 697 medical workers killed in Syria between April 2011 and November 2015…….”
Interesting that the Blumenthal article presents no hard evidence that the White Helmets have done anything nefarious. Typically Max lies via omission of some facts here is one glaring example:
Indeed, the group was founded in collaboration with the United States Agency for International Development (USAID)’s Office of Transitional Initiatives, an explicitly political wing of the agency that has funded efforts at political subversion in Cuba and Venezuela. USAID is the White Helmets’ principal funder, committing at least $23 million to the group since 2013. This money was part of $339.6 million budgeted by USAID for “supporting activities that pursue a peaceful transition to a democratic and stable Syria”
What Max neglects to mention is that USAID which he tries to trash as being being a “political wing” that funds political subversion has given over a $1 billion in aid to the Palestinians over the last four years.
There was one benefit to reading the column however, and that was a link in the comment section to an article which exposes the truth behind the trolls who are paid by the Russian govt to fill message boards like this one with pro Russian propaganda. This explains a great deal about the many of the commentators here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html?_r=0
“…….What Max neglects to mention is that USAID which he tries to trash as being being a “political wing” that funds political subversion has given over a $1 billion in aid to the Palestinians over the last four years……”
A classic example by Blumenthal of advocacy journalism a la Greenwald…..
That’s absurd. The article isn’t about Palestinians. You just can’t come up with an actual fault with Max’s article, just as is true of all the people who hate his book, Goliath.
(I’m not going to aid in misdirecting this discussion into one of gross dissatisfaction with the way USAID “helps” Palestinians, other than to note a lot of the money goes to, or assists, the Palestinian Authority. To understate, the PA is unpopular with many Palestinians and/or pro-Palestinian activists — including Ali Abunimah who despises them — for being Israel’s toady. But none of this has a thing to do with Max Blumenthal’s article on Syria.)
It had nothing to do with Syria but it has plenty to do with Max’s dishonesty.
You have not remotely demonstrated any Max Blumenthal “dishonesty.” His “omitting” a non sequitur is not dishonest.
Like the rest of his critics, you lack any substantive reply to the myriad facts Max presents. So, it’s non sequiturs, misdirection and ad homs, all the way down.
I actually pointed to the very real fact of Max’s mischaracterization of USAID.
You are the one who lacks any substantive response.
Max didn’t “mischaracterize” anything, including USAID. Nor did anything you spewed remotely demonstrate that he did.
Moreover, even if he had, a “mischaracterization” is generally a matter of opinion. What you have not done — nor have I seen anyone else do it — is impugned any of his fact claims or reasoning.
Leaving out salient facts about an organization you are trashing is indeed mis-characterization. Hey how much do you think alternet pays for an article like that? It couldn’t be very much. Wondering if Max has another source of funding. hmmm.
Do note that at the end of Max Blumenthal’s superb investigative piece on Syria, he concludes saying:
Max tweeted:
Mr. Hussain
Concerning the link to the article by Max Blumenthal:
There is nothing in the article by (the anti-western and anti-Israel far left wing) Blumenthal that disputes that the White Helmets have literally saved tens of thousands of civilian lives in rebel-held areas at great personal risk. However, they certainly do advertise their successful humanitarian work through the Syrian Campaign. There is nothing in Blumenthal’s article that disputes the brutal Russian and regime bombings of civilians, targeting of hospitals, clinics or aid convoys (documented by Amnesty International) although he addresses the bombing of the aid convoy. In fact, Russia has accused the White Helmets of being biased toward the rebels (see interview with Mehdi Hassan) which gives more credibility to an attack by Russian war planes on the aid convoy.
Blumenthal goes into great detail about the funding of the Syria Campaign which is partnered with the White Helmets. Blumenthal discusses the “advocacy” of the White Helmets, but in an interview by Medhi Hassan, White Helmets spokesman Farouq al-Habibby denies they are politically-motivated noting that 167 of their workers have been killed during rescues of Syrian civilians. In no way does Blumenthal raise any significant doubts about the White Helmets that would suggest or indicate that they don’t deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. That they might be advocates of removing Assad from power does not take away from their bravery or rescue of Syrian civilians. They simply understand that there can be no peace while Assad remains as President.
In short, the article by Mr. Hussain may be short in some detail, but in no way has been damaged by the anti-western Blumenthal. Bitter below the line radical leftists and Russian-bots just cannot handle an article in the Intercept where US policies are not the focus of criticism in the article.
One-hundred and fifty-seven Syrian intellectuals signed this declaration: Syrian Writers, Artists, and Journalists Speak Out Against US and Russian Policy. They don’t appear to have any use for the rebranded Al Qaeda, Jabhat al-Nusra, the leader of which Maz Hussain interviewed a month before this was written:
It’s a worthwhile take from actual Syrian nationals.
Mona
The last time I checked, the US was bombing al-Qaeda and ISIS.
I very seldom substantively reply to the authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican and Trump-voter, Craig Summers. A course I shall continue.
You reply indirectly much of the time – like your post above.
The delusion heavily edited because it is so disconnected from reality:
Those who check facts know the US bombing of the Syrian Army aided ISIS and “the Salafists, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Al- Qaeda in Iraq” – which was rebranded as ISIS – “are the major forces driving the insurgency in Syria” with the support of “the West, Gulf countries and Turkey.” – US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
The Truth about the White Helmets as opposed to the Intercept’s propaganda:
“the White Helmets are anything but impartial. Indeed, the group was founded in collaboration with the United States Agency for International Development (USAID)’s Office of Transitional Initiatives, an explicitly political wing of the agency that has funded efforts at political subversion in Cuba and Venezuela. USAID is the White Helmets’ principal funder, committing at least $23 million to the group since 2013. This money was part of $339.6 million budgeted by USAID for “supporting activities that pursue a peaceful transition to a democratic and stable Syria” — or establishing a parallel governing structure that could fill the power vacuum once Bashar Al-Assad was removed.”
The White Helmets kill people by interfering with any humanitarian aid their paymasters don’t like:
“the White Helmets figured prominently in The Syria Campaign’s push to undermine the UN’s humanitarian work inside Syria. For months, The Syria Campaign has painted the UN as a stooge of Bashar Al-Assad for coordinating its aid deliveries with the Syrian government, as it has done with governments in conflict zones around the world.”
http://www.alternet.org/world/inside-shadowy-pr-firm-thats-driving-western-opinion-towards-regime-change-syria
“In Part II: How the U.S.-funded White Helmets rescue civilians from Syrian and Russian bombs while lobbying for the U.S. military to step up its own bombing campaign.”
P.S.
I would like the author to state unequivocally that he has received no money from USAID. If he has, the Intercept should fire him for this propaganda piece.
Now that’s investigative reporting. I highly recommend everyone read Jaimie’s link to that long-form, superb Max Blumenthal piece on everything from the White Helmets to the Syria Campaign. He looks at financials, boards of directors and connects a lot of dots. Not à la a “conspiracy theory,” but with cold, hard, plentiful facts.
It is a brutal take down and real journalism. Murtaza certainly picked the wrong week to push such lifeless bullshit.
The common denominator to the crap being currently pumped out by the Intercept is how passionless it is.
It is not even being phoned in. If they aren’t taking orders from someone, then it’s obvious they would rather be doing a thousand other things.
One of the most interesting things that the internet revealed is how little money buys.
Thanks, Jamie. That’s as thorough, careful and professional as it gets. Blumenthal does it the way it should always be done.
Maz: Please read and comment for us on the linked Blumenthal piece.
Maz isn’t alone among leftists who are wildly angry that “the left” isn’t supporting intervention in Syria. Charles Davis and Molly Crabapple are two others. The things especially Davis has been saying about non-interventionists are rancid; indistinguishable from neocons c. 2003 on Iraq and Saddam.
I really think that in Maz’s case he’s so anguished by the carnage in Syria he’s willing to believe the bullshit he posts about “reformed” Al Qaeda groups and the like. Certainly not all of these generally leftist people have suddenly become neoliberal hacks. The horror in Syria has unhinged them.
I mostly agree with this. Note, though, that you’re responding to thelastnamechosen, not to me.
I’ll just add that, as is made clear in Blumenthal’s excellent piece (more to come), some very skillful manipulators have been at work, controlling information flow and molding opinion — and that journos aren’t immune to such manipulation.
Well, shit. rr “replied” to me a few times recently when he meant to post it to some moron, so I guess it’s easy to do. (Not that LNC is a moron.) Sorry about that. Of course, I’ve wronged you even worse than that. GilG tells me that some thread back I twice referred to him as “Doug.”
I apologized…to you.
True. I still think, tho, that at least as to Maz, it’s just the horror, being a Muslim, at the hell in Syria. Maher Arar is of Syrian heritage (and was renditioned there by the U.S. for torture), and he also seems pretty frustrated that “we” aren’t “doing something.”
Maz may be angry that people aren’t listening to him, but this piece was empty passionless propaganda.
Compare and contrast with the Blumenthal article.
If Maz really cared about the issue, he would be doing a much better job making his point. It is a generous “D-” in debate class. If this is his best case, then he obviously has more important things to do.
I think a big part of the problem is that the idea of criticizing a politician or political position is considered the realm of blasphemers and traitors, so arguments aren’t advanced to convince, but to show loyalty.
We ended up in a situation where it is considered an affront to the king to actually train and spar with bare knuckles, so all of their arguments are completely unprepared for even moderately well read teenagers.
Worth saying again–
Arguments aren’t advanced to convince, but to show loyalty.
Certainly not suddenly.
Absolutely, there’s a lot of that. Indeed, I’ve seen Maz and like-minded on Twitter mutter that: “Ok, so we don’t demand you support a No-Fly Zone, but you have to say something showing concern!”
But I disagree that Maz et al. have become neoliberal hacks, either suddenly or at any time in the past.
What? The Intercept hasn’t retracted this yet? If false reporting is going to be the norm, I demand a restoration of Juan Thompson!
Because the owner of the Intercept Pierre Omidyar wants them to push Hillary for president, support regime change wars he favors, and cover-up the US support for Nazism in the Ukraine. The Intercept has officially been astroturfed!
I don’t think the available evidence really supports this conclusion, Jamie, although I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that Omidyar has some unknown amount of editorial influence here.
Overall, TI has not promoted Clinton, although Bob Mackey’s tabloid-style (almost cartoonish) anti-Trump campaign could certainly be seen as an effort to do so.
Maz Hussain’s take on Syria, factually- and ideologically-confused as it is, is not the only one presented here.
The most troubling feature of TI’s coverage of the US-orchestrated, Nazi-fronted coup in Ukraine is the lack of it. And I do find it troubling, but I haven’t seen anything that amounts to dispositive evidence of support for the coup and the coup plotters.
To point out again: Syria has created a schism on the left, and that’s reflected in the articles published here.
It’s inane in the extreme to argue that Maz Hussain’s problematic articles on Syria constitute proof of the Intercept’s being neoliberal, run by Omidyar for his supposedly nefarious purposes, and on and on in that vein that some have pursued.
Maz’s articles do not impress me — if The Weekly Standard supported a U.S. military intervention (and when don’t they?) and ran a piece showcasing how an entire Al Qaeda group opposing the Bad Guy we are “supposed to” remove is now not al Qaeda, we’d collectively roll our eyes. It’s no better when Maz does it.
But this site has also been accused of being pro-Assad, especially when it ran this Rhania Khalek columnlast week. The left is split on Syria. That’s just the way it is.
“both sides accuse us” is some kind of latin fallacy, right? if not it should be.
Look, The Intercept isn’t “the reasonable center”. That ain’t a thing. There’s always a ‘view from somewhere’.
What you omit is as important as what you include. And money has a gaze. It has ideology. It hires you for what you don’t say as much as what ya do.
Money isn’t “influencing” the Intercept. That’s a false premise. Core to Chomsky’s argument in Manufacturing Consent is the idea that money is predicting the outcome. Money’s influence doesn’t occur after the fact.
Money has a view.
According to the Defense Intelligence Agency:
In order to establish a “Salafist Principality” in Eastern Syria.
That’s a huge story. NATO-GCC’s proxy war, framed in the media as a civil war, has been going on for at least half a decade.
Did the Intercept do any reporting on the FOIA DIA documents? Twice, months after the fact, and only in the passing context of Michael Flynn’s discussion with Medi Hasan.
In that interview, Flynn explicitly stated that supporting GCC proxies was a “willful decision” by the administration, And this is how Glenn Greenwald framed it.
Mistakes Were Made. #dumbwashing
Money looks ‘somewhere’.
Here’s a few key categories, that, AFAICT, are actively omitted from The Intercept’s ‘view’ on Syria.
Invasion,
Proxy,
Sovereignty,
Pipeline,
GCC
Socialization
Privatization
The absence is glaring. Because money is a gaze. An intelligent news reader must arbitrate, as best they can, between its blind spots. Assume everyone is nefarious, including yourself, and you’ll never be disappointed.
You are confused, accusing me of making an argument I have long and totally rejected, to wit:
The day I argue that The Intercept is or should be “the reasonable center” is the day my friends and family should lock me up for having had a complete disintegration of personality.
No, I’m correctly pointing out that this site has also published a piece by Rhania Khalek that is detested by the same people who like Maz’s. That is, the schism on the left — that’s far wider than just this site — is reflected here.
And, predictably, the feverish insults and allegations of nefarious agendas directed at the site and its authors swing according to which article is current. I reject this behavior from both sides.
Rhania Khalek doesn’t support Assad. Maz Hussain isn’t a “terrorist supporter” or a neoliberal plant. Pierre Omidyar is not fiendishly planting neoliberals on the staff here.
End of.
Nah, it’s just cognitive dissonance. Not a personality disorder.
No, I’m correctly pointing out that this site has also published a piece by Rhania Khalek that is detested by the same people who like Maz’s.
Which has nothing to do with the Intercept’s framing of this story over the last two years, or the lies of omission used to achieve this framing.
Khalek’s piece doesn’t cancel out Hussein’s. That’s not how this works. Who hates what isn’t the issue.
*repost*
Nah, it’s just cognitive dissonance. Not a personality disorder.
Which has nothing to do with the Intercept’s framing of this story over the last two years, or the lies of omission used to achieve this framing.
Khalek’s piece doesn’t cancel out Hussein’s. That’s not how this works. Who hates what isn’t the issue.
Gee, a schism, you say. Which is “reflected here”, on The Intercept. But it’s not taking sides, of course. It’s not a part of the schism, in of itself. There isn’t a qualitative ‘view on Syria’. No, that would be gauche. Instead, the Intercept “reflects the schism”, in all it’s magnitude, like a tranquil pool, teaching the controversy of the soul.
Uh huh. Sure. You go with that.
There is no “Intercept’s framing of this story over the last two years.”
Again setting up a straw man, something I never argued. This site has published two writers with opposing views on Syria. Maz is staff, and can post as he pleases. Rania isn’t (yet) staff, but has posted one Syria story. I look forward to more. (There was also one piece by Marcin Mamon that seemed to support Chechen “jihadis” fighting Russians in Syria and suggesting others ought to as well.)
Your reply is a lot of snarky bullshit that doesn’t address the accurate arguments I set forth.
All I know is that a male model is rescuing a baby.
If you can now get two hot young girls to make out, then we got a war.
“All I know is that a male model is rescuing a baby.”
Who paid for this PR …? my guess it’s these guys again.
Let me chime in to see if I make any sense:
The human self reflects a wide range of attributes and qualities — from the lowest to the highest, e.g., from selfishness to selflessness, hatred to love, etc, with each quality or a combination of qualities defining its state.
The self changes all the time. One can be full of love in one moment and full of hatred in the next.
The highest qualities are considered a reflection of the higher self, while the lower qualities are considered a reflection of the lower self.
The self is also known as consciousness.
Human beings are not absolute beings, and the light of the higher consciousness is very difficult to extinguish completely as is the effects of the lower consciousness.
The most evil person (that is, a person in whom the lower self is extremely dominant a lot of the times) does have moments when s/he acts and behaves through the light of the higher consciousness.
This is why a person may be carrying out a lot of evil towards others, but be loving towards his/her mother, or his/her dog.
An overall situation can be bad to evil collectively, for collectively it reflects the lower consciousness quite a bit.
However, within that overall situation, it is possible to see acts of higher consciousness (generosity, love, empathy, selflessness, compassion, etc.)
Human beings are very complex, and their inner intentions and perceptions and motives are not necessarily 100% known to others or even to themselves.
It is possible for a person to perceive a situation to be good, while another person perceives it as bad.
It is possible for a person to have good intentions, yet carry out actions that are generally considered bad by others either through judgment or seeing their consequences. (I am presenting a moral situation and not a legal argument.)
Our striving (literally Jihad in Arabic) should be to carry out acts that are reflective of the higher self/consciousness — selflessness, generosity, peace, love, forgiveness, not doing unto others what one doesn’t want done unto one, serving others with no expectations, lack of lust for power and control and resources, etc, whether these acts are carried out individually or collectively.
One should recognize good (reflections of the higher self) and bad/evil acts (reflections of the lower self) for what they are, under any circumstances and without aligning oneself with a particular group.
Indeed, sufi. We Appalachians tried to ‘join’ civilization once, but it hasn’t, exactly, worked out… yet.
Ultimately, the faith of no man can be conditioned by anyone but himself… notwithstanding all those birds of a feather who seem so drawn to flock together.
Of course, my heart is aligned with the ‘white hat’ worker carrying the child from rubble in the photo caption above. It would take a senseless person to deny the altruism of the act … or one so consumed by partisan politics as to be functionally incapable of independent thought.
Nevertheless, puzzles the will, given both the potential of instantaneous mass global communication/manipulation these days, I do wonder if ‘that particular group’ (the ‘white hats’) is truly ‘aligned’ with the forces of political compromise? *I wonder the same thing about Assad’s ‘particular group’
This is the worst article I have ever read, full of lies and propaganda. The white hats are terrorists that make propaganda videos for the US to use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oQTWn1JfeA&feature=youtu.be
I was thinking the same thing. This site is losing credibility by the day.
https://youtu.be/NXSnm4H5DiU
Amen. I hope Snowden denounces the Intercept soon. They are supporting both the ideology and organizations that Snowden tried to expose — and who tried to kill or capture him.
That’s the same Edward Snowden who regardless of having a public platform remains implausibly silent w/re to the fact that the 911/anthrax attacks were domestic crimes The reality that the White Helmets are part of the regime change initiative, aligned with the terrorists that have invaded the country, is not just some baseless conspiracy theory, but demonstrably true. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCp96gJiF14
and: http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/29/feel-good-hoax-how-us-propaganda-works-in-the-syrian-war/
According to the Haaretz this morning:
“………Forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar Assad struck a crucial field hospital in the heavily bombed rebel-held al Sakhour district in Aleppo, killing at least one person and devastating the health facility, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported Saturday……The hospital, known as M10 and reportedly the largest such facility on the rebel-held side of Aleppo, had already been put out of service before the latest attack, having suffered a heavy bombardment on Wednesday in an assault that UN chief Ban Ki-moon denounced as a war crime……..”
According to Doug Salzmann, this is the fault of the US:
“…….what would they have to do with — let alone justify — Russian and Syrian bombing of civilians and hospitals?……” – GK James
“……..When you start wars, that act (starting wars) has everything to do with the horrors of war that follow. That’s why “[p]lanning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances” is a crime (a “crime against peace”) under international law. See Principle VI of the Nuremberg Principles…….” – Doug Salzmann
It’s clear that the American government should be charged with a war crime for Assad bombing the same medical facility for the second time this week.
I have more links, but I don’t have the time to look for them. Also check out MintPress for more articles on White Helmets.
WHO ARE SYRIA’S WHITE HELMETS (terrorist linked)?
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/21/who-are-the-syria-white-helmets/
The REAL Syria Civil Defence
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/23/exclusive-the-real-syria-civil-defence-expose-natos-white-helmets-as-terrorist-linked-imposters/
‘We Saved 60,000’ – Bogus Claim by Syria’s White Helmets Raises Even More Questions
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/30/we-saved-60000-bogus-claim-by-syrias-white-helmets-raises-even-more-questions/
White Helmets – LIES, BETRAYAL AND MORE LIES FOR SYRIA
http://africanagenda.net/white-helmets-lies-betrayal-and-more-lies-for-syria/
Terrorist Support Group Nominated For Nobel Peace Prize
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/09/terrorist-support-group-nominated-nobel-peace-prize.html
Just FYI, if you include more than one link in a comment, the software has a seizure, and your comment won’t appear for as long as 24 hours later.
http://www.dividedcore.com/politics/2016/10/3/us-government-and-mainstream-media-lies-the-white-helmets-da.html
God this is some bullshit. MH should have actually done some actual reporting. I’m not even reporter and I did a better job than him on reporting on the WH here:
http://www.dividedcore.com/politics/2016/10/3/us-government-and-mainstream-media-lies-the-white-helmets-da.html
Check out today’s article by Max Blumenthal on the connections among the White Helmets, The Syria Campaign, and Avaaz. Be advised all of you who have been duped. Does this include The Intercept?There is a very deep-pocket, professionally-managed PR campaign one of whose tactics is to lure media outlets into doing it’s dirty work of softening up the public to accept a no-fly zone and regime change in Syria, just as was done with Libya. It’s all one-sided, cynical, manipulated bullshit designed for maximum emotional impact.
http://www.alternet.org/world/inside-shadowy-pr-firm-thats-driving-western-opinion-towards-regime-change-syria
Those who look at genuine factual reporting such as that featured in sites like consortiumnews or referred to in moonofalabama org rather than relying fatuous yankee propaganda such as this realize that the ‘white helmets’ are a propaganda construct developed by the yankee regime and its acolytes to defend jihadi thugs attacking civilization in Syria on their behalf. Supporting them is advocating barbarism and, therefore, treason to civilization.
Propaganda,as its a zionist media and a zionist project.
Yankees are for Trump.Truth dodgers are for the Hell bitch.
So all you “bleeding-heart liberals” who believe the White Helmets to be “terrorist sympathizers”, at what age do “terrorist” children no longer deserve to be rescued? When should they be left to die under the rubble? Are you claiming that all the film footage I see of bombing by Assad and his ally, Russia, on Al Jazeera is faked? I don’t think so.
You remind me of the Zionist apologists for bombing Gaza. You remind me of the Russian government apologists for Checenya, for Grozny. A bunch of Stalinists.
The leftists on this web site revere the wisdom of Stalin, but unfortunately he is dead so they look for guidance to Chairman Trump. According to Trump Thought, the US should be concentrating its efforts on invading the country with the most oil, which is Saudi Arabia. As a side benefit, it is the Saudis who are funding the most radical groups in Syria, and also waging a war against Yemen, so bombing Saudi Arabia would also be the most effective way to render humanitarian assistance to the Middle East.
Sometimes, as all good Stalinists know, the best way to help someone else is to follow your own self interest.
Well said Kassandra…..uh, except for the Gaza part.
“……. A bunch of Stalinists…..”
Calling the Assad regime and Russian bombing apologists “Stalinist” is far too sophisticated. They simply are anti-American. Why make things complicated?
And you remind me of an imbecile.
But seriously, what’s the purpose of running an article valorizing the White Helmets if (and I don’t know) they are the forces for terror and extremism some argue is documented and the WHs are among reasons why many think it’d be folly to intervene? Why did Maz Hussain write a prior article interviewing the leader of a Syrian Al Qaeda group that now claims to have reformed and renounced terror and extremism?
Is this is all just human interest material, or is it in the service of saying: “We should intervene on the side of these wonderful groups.”
Is it “Stalinist” to note that all the ardent Zionists who hanker for intervention in Syria here love Maz’s articles, and one of the worst adores most of your comment? As used to be said: “Things that make you go hmmm.”
This is a disappointing article on the Intercept. Has the author ever been on the ground in Syria? What is his source? It appears to me that the White Helmets are nothing more than propaganda. Here is a youtube interview with someone who is a professional reporter that has lived in Aleppo and various other parts of Syria. She speaks honestly about her experience in Syria and the White Helmets. https://youtu.be/I8mA0h7dCKI
The Intercept’s framing on Syria is important and revealing.
running traces on old databases
former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook
Note::Glenn Greenwald needs to get rid of the clandestine operatives within the intercept working for the co rrupt establishment.
Syria knows who the terrorist are but the corrupt foreign establishment is not willing to let the masses know that the establishment want a regime change in place in order to keep stealing the natural resources from sovereign nations who have not ask the usa to intervene, nor fly in syrian airspace, nor have boots on syria’s ground either. Time for the entire world masses to open their eyes to the corrupt propaganda perpetrated openly with their media lapdogs.
Note: American across the land must view the following Brilliant videos by Syrian Girl:
the truth about two syrian boys, and only one was propagandized by the corrupt media lapdogs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jifS0fi9WB8
what the kosher puppet kerry and the corrupt envoy of the (false front) united nations did not want the masses to realize because the usa has lost a decisive argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jifS0fi9WB8
The fallout of the corrupt establishment is one’s gullibility – Alejandro Grace Ararat.
Bless your heart, Maz.
https://gowans.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/the-bricmont-and-johnstone-faux-pas-wrongly-blaming-israel-for-us-policy-on-syria/
Overlap? How’s Wahhabi and Liberal lining up on that Venn diagram of yours.
…”has become the subject of lurid conspiracy theories, including accusations that they are part of a Western-orchestrated plot for regime change. Saleh is weary of these claims, saying that they are divorced from the reality of events in Syria. Civil Defense’s code of conduct includes a pledge of political neutrality, and the group rescues victims of bombings regardless of political persuasion.”
If the Intercept wants to print this unsupported opinion it should publish a full article based on Syrian and western eyewitnesses of all persuasions about the role of the white helmets and their connections to the various revolutionary organizations: Al Nusra, Free Syrian Army, Isis,
Do the white helmets only operate in areas under anti-Assad control? Why are there videos showing White helmets celebrating the killing of Syrian soldiers and calling for victory of the insurgents? How many independent reporters are close to the scene and are reliable eyewitnesses of the white helmets? Considering the substantive money going to this group and the fact that independent journalists have limited, if any access to these areas, could the claims and movies be more propaganda than true journalism?
This entire piece is built on the claims of one person and fits into a mainstream media campaign to make heroes of the white helmets. I remember the whole gas attack exposed by Seymour Hersh to be lies. I remember the stories in the first gulf war of Iraqis murdering children in a hospital, exposed as fiction sponsored by a
Context: The majority of Syrians are in areas controlled by Syria and Assad. This is also true in Aleppo, where the majority ( about 5 to 1) are in or have fled to Western Aleppo. It is practically impossible to find any mainstream media that tries to cover Western Aleppo and completely impossible to find any MSM reporters sympathetic to the government or those who support it.
The phrase conspiracy theories is loaded and useless. It has been used against those who told the truth about the surveillance state, it has been used against those who exposed the planning of the Iraq war, it has been used against those who exposed the coup against Allende, and the bombing in Laos and Cambodia, against Seymour Hersh and anyone who questions the government and mainstream media. It stinks of a foul message: shut up, don’t ask questions.
Yes, it was only a matter of time before the Intercept showed its true colors by becoming an overt mouthpiece for antiassad Syrian groups funded by the CIA via its front USAID. Between its articles on Chechen freedom fighters, Omidyar’s involvement with USAID in Ukraine, to this latest example of the mean by which the purported philanthropic work of NGO’s is used as cover for clandestine operations, it is becoming abundantly clear why the Intercept is promoting the presidential candidate who is the poster child of international interventionism (regime change) and the forced immigration that results from it. Throw in Soros funded initiatives (e.g. Black Lives Matters) and one cannot help but come to an inescapable conclusion…
“……..If the Intercept wants to print this unsupported opinion it should publish a full article based on Syrian and western eyewitnesses of all persuasions about the role of the white helmets……”
Isn’t it interesting how the below the line commentators suddenly want more “objective” reporting from the Intercept? Most are happy as a lark when the above the line commentary are the typically one-sided articles critical of US policies, but mention the Russians and Syrian regime are targeting hospitals, aid convoys and killing humanitarian workers, then suddenly they want the report to include ALL “persuasions”. Murtaza’s article is nothing but pro-western propaganda. You gotta love the hypocrisy of the extreme left.
I am no fan of Putin or Assad. However, Arab spring was not merely a spontaneous popular uprising against despots and their autocratic regimes. It was a carefully planned, long-term CIA campaign that was facilitated with the aid of “pro-democratic” NGOs. By 2011, indigenous groups like the Damascus Declaration and Syrian Muslim Brotherhood had long since been encouraged to foster “pro-democratic” aspirations within their respective spheres of influence with an eye to destabilizing Assad’s hold on power. In concert, US supplied weapons that were used by radical, multinational Muslim proxies to topple Qaddafi (Operation Zero Footprint) were covertly redirected to known terrorist organizations in Syria under the direction of Hillary Clinton. President Obama secretly authorized CIA and other U.S. agencies to provide support that could help the rebels oust Assad a year later in 2012. In spite of these anti-Assad efforts, Assad was re-elected to office for seven years in 2014 with seventy-three percent of all Syrian adults voting. International observers were unanimous in their observations that the elections were fairly conducted; Al-Assad received 88.7% of the vote. Western observers were more reserved in their praise citing the fact that insurgent controlled areas were not allowed to participate in the election. Think about that for one second, the NY Times was openly critical of the 2014 Syrian presidential elections because areas controlled by internationally recognized terrorist organizations were not allowed to vote. Of course they characterized that policy as an example of Assad’s “intolerance for dissent.” In lockstep, CNN reported that “opposition groups and many Western countries have said the voting was rigged.” The British Foreign Office first set the stage for these contrivances by declaring that the election would “be a grotesque parody of democracy” – a published view that was coordinated with that of the U.S. State Department who claimed that, in addressing the armed insurgency by opposition forces within Syria, the al-Assad government had already taken steps “to make it difficult if not impossible to have a fair and free election in Syria.” When examined in the broader context of the Bush Doctrine – which formalized preemptive regime change as the cornerstone of US foreign policy in the Muslim world – one is left dumbfound that anyone cannot see the striking parallels between Syrian unrest and that which was assiduously fomented in Libya, Yemen, Iraq, and Afghanistan as a pretext to their invasions. Although Iran has been targeted with an identical campaign of disinformation through social media, it has managed to steer clear of regime change for the time being.
A final note to all of this is the fact that the UN has been a willing partner in this reshaping of the Muslim world as Global governance has always been the end game of international interventionists. To them, the call for democratic reform is merely seen as tactic by which traditionally marginalized sub-cultures within a target nation-state can be inspired to collectively oppose cultural norms and the longstanding nativist sensibilities that give rise to them; the exaggeration of such divisions predictably becomes the breeding ground for political sedition.
You may or may not be right but it sounds very speculative. It would take a lot more evidence than one article to convince me that these journalists and editors who have exposed the CIA/NSA at great risk have sold out to the same. The warfare in Syria is confused and there are sincere people holding different positions. Maz’s conspiracy accusation was particularly distasteful without a more thorough knowledge, more evidence and and more points of view. Glenn is always critical of that kind of tactic, and t really surprises me. I am about to read Max Blumenthal’s article on the white helmets. It would be a shame if the Intercept took a simplistic anti-Assad/Russian position but it would also be missing the mark not to question Assad . I think a group article by several progressive writers, each describing their sense of the history of the conflict to date would be a worthwhile endeavor.
Here’s a confrontational interview with Jill Stein by Mehdi Hasan (who is surprisingly rude – probably because he – like many others, it seems – is of the unfounded belief that Clinton isn’t quite evil enough to dismiss for moral reasons).
Many speak of the lesser of two evils, and understandably Clinton is seen as this (compared to her suspiciously caricatured opponent, whom cynics like myself regard as controlled opposition), even though in a handful of areas (no war with Russia, for example) Trump is actually the lesser (which is practically irrelevant since the establishment won’t let him be president anyway, plus he changes his mind daily). But in point of fact even if this lesser evil business is true, CLINTON HAS (unlike many other lesser evils) CROSSED THE THRESHHOLD OF BEING TOO EVIL TO BE PRESIDENT, EVEN IF DONALD TRUMP IS WORSE.
Confrontational Jill Stein Interview with UpFront Al-Jazeera TV 30th Sept 2016
But lest we are now under the impression that Muslim men (Murtaza Hussain, Mehdi Hasan) are all becoming Clinton’s Stepford Husbands, here’s a millennial Muslim with a different message:
The Lesser Of Two Evils Is Still Evil
(Press play, turn on sound; approx. 5 minutes)
I’ve bookmarked it. Gotta go do chores, but I just want to pop in to say that it’s true that the LOTE is still evil, and there’s no sensible reason to think that Killary is the LOTE in this election.
Were Donald Drumpfuck to be elected, the entire establishment, regardless of party affiliation, would coalesce to block almost all of his crazy and despicable “programs” — in the unlikely event that he could actually settle on any for long enough to try to implement them.
If Killary is elected, as is still a pretty safe bet, her ugly and destructive schemes, some of them wrapped in pretty paper and lovely ribbon, will fly through Congress and be embraced by the bureaucracy, to the detriment of the vast majority of humans in the US and around the world — and to the planet itself.
Thinking that Trump is scarier than Killary is sloppy thinking.
Agreed. People cry out about the damage he could do, but in real terms (and this in no way renders him a good choice) Trump will meet more resistance to his evil than Clinton would to hers, even if (and as you say, it’s a big if) hers is innately lesser. It’s the same dynamic Glen Ford described in calling Obama the more ‘effective’ evil – precisely because Obama’s corporatism, militarism and imperialism was never as challenged as a Republican’s would be by the mainstream. People resent me for bringing this up – so I’m glad you did it!
Remember Obomba and his bomb Syria garbage that the American people overwhelmingly rejected through social media ?And which he didn’t do?
The criminals in Washington fear only one thing;Their reelection prospects,so don’t discount the peoples voice,which hopefully will send Donald Trump to the WH.
The truth of Johnsons favorite foreign leader;Shimon Peres.sheesh.They reminded him he was dead.
So if Trump picks a couple extremely right wing judges for the SCOUS it will be blocked? It wont, and the effect will be significant and long lasting.
That depends upon the balance of power in the Senate, which is unknown at this point, certainly unknown to you.
Also unknown is whether or not Trump would nominate unusually right-wing justices, as his “policies” are more variable and much less predictable than the tides.
Finally, given her long and well-known history, it is entirely likely that Clinton would nominate justices who could be expected to be fairly “liberal” on matters that relate to social issues and the concerns of those mired in identity politics. It is also quite like that those nominees would be solidly committed to the national security state, deferential to the executive, champions of the capitalist elite, servants of the prison-industrial complex, etc.
Again: there is no sensible reason to believe that Trump is a more dangerous choice.
Mehdi Hasan, like most who make it in MSM, is a chameleon. Career, influence and money go before principles.
I have been and continue to be in total disagreement with your conspiracy about the beyond the beyond narcissist Trump playing his candidacy all for the advantage of helping Clinton to win. I find that to be a ridiculously unlikely conspiracy in the works. It’s absurd to think that this guy who has about as much control over stopping his mouth from uttering The Crazy on a daily basis as he does at stopping a windmill from windmilling in a wind storm could pull off such a long and arduous task.
But … hell yeah, you’re right about Mehdi Hasan conducting an achingly rude interview and even diving into the dumpster of right-wing hackery in that interview. He even pulled the old “sitting at a table with, and shaking the hand of, Putin” is to supposed to make us all wonder if Stein loves Putin. That sort of Right Wing Media Punditry Hack Speak chokes off honest conversation. And Stein had a lot to say that he could have and should have been listening to and commenting on in real time, but instead he just stayed with his shitty prescripted talking points and wouldn’t knock it the hell off. That was some ugly interviewing.
I wouldn’t watch it precisely because I like Hasan. Fear of Trump has driven any number of people I admire quite crazy. They sound like neoliberal/neocon hacks about any number of things, most pertaining to anything that could harm Hillary.
Interesting article with a limited view of a complicated subject.
After reading most of the commentary below, I’ll hazard that this article may not be more than it is: a piece that doesn’t attempt to cover all of the ancillary connections in order to show a more personal aspect from the perspective of a member of the Syrian Civil Defense.
If anyone has a more comprehensive long form write up (my preference) or video on the topic touched on here, please share.
Anyone, that is, other than CraigSummers.
“Crap talk; Noun. A condition where one’s insecurities come spilling out of his mouth making him look like an unconfident idiot.” ? Dan Pearce
You can find a brief but good summary at Consortium News: How US Propaganda Plays in Syrian War, September 23, 2016, by Rick Sterling.
In that article there’s a link to a more in-depth report, The REAL Syria Civil Defense Exposes Fake ‘White Helmets’ as Terrorist-Linked Imposters, September 23, 2016, by Vanessa Beeley.
Thanks Doc.
Anyone else have suggestions?
retract this article or your credibility is DESTROYED.
https://youtu.be/OJZRvp6w4wc
1) I can’t retract the article, as it’s not in my power to do so.
2) Therefore, your “or else” proclamation means nothing.
And that’s the truth, mister.
Both Republicans and Democrats have said vile things about David Miranda, Glenn’s husband and as of tonite, Councilmen-elect for Rio de Janeiro. Glenn and I had this discussion on Twitter:
Take that,all you fucking racist cretins.
The terms used are anti-gay more than anti Latino,so racism is not the issue,its alleged gay friendly pols showing their hypocrisy.
so the question becomes ,has Murtaza Hussain been made yet another porn in the “white-helmets” PR deception …. or a willing participant to the clear fog of war ? aka total “white-helmets” whitewash.
glenn , you seriously need to step in on this one ASAP to keep the intercept free and clear of actively being the conduit of fog of war , in fact you probably in the better position to actually investigate the claims of these so call White Helmets “first responders” who in reality are part of the West’s terror proxy army.
there’s a lot of video proof and other date than corroborates these al nusra and related direct connections to the WH , but this more than any other, lays the case out in a clear and unambiguous facts…
please see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo
White Helmets are AlQaeda | Official Trailer [HD]
some other searches
‘‘White Helmets’: New Breed of Mercenaries and Propagandists, Disguised as ‘Humanitarians’ in Syria’
and side by side pictures offered as confirmed proof
http://www.handsoffsyriasydney.com/war-reports/double-life-of-white-helmets-volunteers-by-day-terrorists-by-night/
to name just a few…
you need to act on this ASAP glenn and i hope follow it up with facts to place these orgs in the true light of terrorists through and through..
EXCLUSIVE: The REAL Syria Civil Defence Exposes Fake ‘White Helmets’ as Terrorist-Linked Imposters
Here’s one of the “humanitarian” white helmets “risking everything” by participating in a lynching last week.
He throws quite the roundhouse punch at the defenseless guy at 0:19 in the video: https://twitter.com/hkx07/status/781614195594756096
you missed the real bombshell ,as di everyone it seems , this needs an in depth investigation to inform the mass readership at the very least…
see the concise and unambiguous proof of al qaeda/nusra direct and immersive connections with the white helmets and their core PR function to add to the fog of undeclared war…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo
White Helmets are AlQaeda
Glenn’s husband, David Miranda, is the new Rio de Janeiro City-councilmen elect. Yay! for David and Glenn.
Can you post some pictures of you at the wedding?
Go away, asshole.
Bravo, David!
What’s so really cool, is David ran as openly gay. Rio’s congressman is one of the most vile, homophobic, religious wingnut bigots on the planet.
That seat needs to be David’s in due time.
I wonder if anyone can deny this statement:
Glenn Greenwald supports Murtaza Hussain’s article, and Glenn Greenwald will vote for Clinton.
I deny it. Certainly there’s no evidence Glenn supports the article. He’s protective of his friends, and Maz is one. As for how he’s going to vote, he hasn’t said and I don’t intend to ask. I never have asked him how he votes.
You said in another article’s comments that his vote was not surprising, indicating you know it.
And why is he friends with a terrorist sympathizer?
“And why is he friends with a terrorist sympathizer?”
Uh, hello, is that really you Maisie? You sound a little Fox News viewer right now.
Yeah, that’s bottom of the barrel bull shit there, for Maisie or anyone else. Some really dumb trash talk going on there.
This writer is sticking up for terrorists trying to overthrow the democratically elected president of Syria.
The shoe fits.Stop the lickspittle genuflection crap.
Assad is “democratically elected president of Syria” ? Wait ..what ? Does that mean Kim Jong Un is also a “democratically elected leader” . What is this ? The bizarro world ?
You do realize that everything that is printed on the Intercept ( as with all other publications) has to go through the editors first. Writers don’t just publish anything they want. So are you now going to accuse the Intercept of being “jihadis” or ” Al-Qaeda supporters” like you are doing to M. Hussain?
So let me get this. A journalist interviews someone who you..a person trolling online…considers a terrorist…and that journalist is now a terrorist sympathizer ? Got it.
If and when I know about any particular vote it would be because he volunteered the information. I never ask. (And I’d have to see the comment you allude to to know exactly what I was discussing.)
And Maz Hussain is not a “terrorist sympathizer.” That’s a disgusting and outrageous thing to say. I’ll repeat what I said to Glenn during aur Twitter kerfuffle yesterday: Maz seems so desperate to do something abut the carnage in Syria he’s willing to entertain unreasonable notions, such as that an entire Al Qaeda group has seen the light and forsworn its terrorist ways.
I can’t be bothered to find the comment, but that was the impression it gave. Many times you have oddly defended people who will vote for Clinton because of fear of Trump, while (admirably) saying you can not personally do so, and I want to know whether Glenn is one of those people. I have no right to know, but I asked in case anyone could deny it – you say you do indeed deny it but all you’ve said is you don’t know.
And the establishment in supporting “rebels” in Syria are supporting known terrorists, thus they and all who agree with their actions are literally terrorist sympathizers. What’s disgusting is this incontrovertible fact, not my pointing it out.
You must be a fervent supporter of the Assad regime. He terrorizes his people with barrel bombs and those who fight back are terrorists and journalists giving them a voice are “terrorist sympathizers “. You must a dyed in the wool moron.
Maise
You are a total idiot – or you can’t read. The biggest terrorist by far is Assad. He started the conflict by using his military to target peaceful demonstrators seeking political rights killing hundreds (as documented by Amnesty International). There is documented use by the Assad regime of chemical weapons, chlorine (very recently), barrel bombs, targeting hospitals, clinics and aid convoys (possibly the Russians instead).
Assad most recently unloaded two barrel bombs on the largest hospital in Aleppo. He is accused (documented by photos) of murdering tens of thousands of prisoners. He – by far – is the biggest terrorist in the Middle East (bar none). Over 400,000 people have died directly due to actions by Assad who would not grant political rights to all Syrians, but contends that the elections in 2014 were free and fair. What a farce.
Finally, there is no way that Greenwald will vote for HRC under any circumstance. He hates that Israel-supporting woman with a passion. However, I do believe that Mona knows who Greenwald will vote for – if anyone. I don’t think she is being forthright in her response. Of course, this is very typical for a fucking lawyer.
I’m surprised you want to play “Who’s the biggest terrorist?” since the US seems to always lose that dark parlor game. I have read accounts of the chemical warfare situation that suggest the “rebels” were the employers of it, not Assad – but I don’t defend him any more than I defend any other violent leader.
I don’t see why Greenwald has to be different from the other Clinton voters Mona defends; Noam Chomsky is repeating his previous Democrat-approving behavior (recommending voting for Clinton in swing states, just as he did with Obama) to keep Trump out, and perhaps Greenwald agrees. Many fear the national racism encouraged by Trump, and will not chance his victory for that reason. I think Chomsky is wrong, and that voting for the lesser evil is counter-productive and must now stop (to survive we must vote for the greater good at some point, the sooner the better), but I see no reason why Greenwald might not have an affinity for Chomsky’s “reasoning,” and fear of the Zombie Bigot Hordes, plus the poignant fact that Trump obviously dislikes Snowden even more than the corrupt establishmentarian Clinton does.
Maise
“……..I don’t see why Greenwald has to be different from the other Clinton voters Mona defends…..”
He doesn’t have to be, but he has written several articles about HRC which suggests that he dislikes her (policies) intensely – especially her support for Israel. She is the classic establishment candidate while Greenwald’s views clearly oppose the US political establishment. Greenwald also defended Trump voters as alienated victims of “neoliberal” policies (which he also opposes). In fact, every thing about Greenwald screams in opposition to what HRC represents. Greenwald would have to be incredibly hypocritical to vote for HRC. Finally, Chomsky is not Greenwald.
“……I’m surprised you want to play “Who’s the biggest terrorist?” since the US seems to always lose that dark parlor game…….”
You don’t think that bombing an aid convoy or a hospital qualifies as terrorism? And this has been going on the entire war. Russians and regime bombers have targeted numerous clinics and field hospitals as well as civilians which are all acts of terrorism. As far as chemical weapons go, the UN documented the use of chlorine gas by the Assad regime. According to the Middle East Eye (September 16, 2016; “UN inquiry to blame Syrian military for chlorine gas attacks: Source”):
“………An international inquiry will identify two Syrian air force helicopter squadrons and two other military units responsible for chlorine gas attacks on civilians, a Western diplomat told Reuters on Friday………”It was the 22nd Division, the 63rd Brigade and the 255 and 253 squadrons of the Syrian government,” the envoy said……..The year-long joint UN and OPCW inquiry, which is investigating reports of attacks between 11 April 2014 and 21 August 2015, is due to submit its fourth report to the UN Security Council next week. The third report, in August, blamed Syrian government troops for two chlorine gas attacks and Islamic State militants for using sulphur mustard gas………”
It is you ignoring the terrorism of the Assad regime, but on these threads, you are not the only one. The Assad family (like Saddam Hussein) runs his police state on “terrorism”. A revolt by the Syrian people in the early 1980s resulted in the murder of perhaps 10,000-20,000 people (1982 Hama Massacre). Murdering innocent people is a family tradition.
Thanks.
Your evidence for the UN convoy attack or attacks on hospitals?
The accusations are made and the evidence is never provided. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells can see that it is a BS campaign of constantly laying blame at the Syrian government or Russia.
Yes, every time there would be a vote at the UN the Syrian government just decided to throw some chemical weapons into a house for a laugh. Oh no…..it can’t be the rebels trying to get NATO in….It’s the evil Assad taunting Obama and the powerless passive USA! Yes, it has to be that, of course.
It doesn’t matter how many times the US run this crap, whether it’s Iraq, Libya or Syria, you’ll still keep spouting it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm4Zo9ALv7w
Hospital bombed? Well, here’s a video of a white helmet running with a small child for the 300th time. That’s all the proof I need, that’ll do.
“…….Your evidence for the UN convoy attack or attacks on hospitals?……”
Amnesty International report 2015-2016:
Government forces carried out indiscriminate attacks and attacks that directly targeted civilians, including bombardment of civilian residential areas and medical facilities with artillery, mortars, barrel bombs and, reportedly, chemical agents, unlawfully killing civilians. Government forces also enforced lengthy sieges, trapping civilians and depriving them of food, medical care and other necessities. Security forces arbitrarily arrested and continued to detain thousands, including peaceful activists, human rights defenders, media and humanitarian workers, and children. Some were subjected to enforced disappearance and others to prolonged detention or unfair trials. Security forces systematically tortured and otherwise ill-treated detainees with impunity; thousands of detainees died as a result of torture and other ill-treatment between 2011 and 2015.
Government and allied forces continued to commit war crimes and other serious violations of international law, including direct attacks on civilians and indiscriminate attacks. Government forces repeatedly attacked areas controlled or contested by armed opposition groups, killing and injuring civilians and damaging civilian objects in unlawful attacks. They carried out indiscriminate attacks and direct attacks on civilian residential areas, including artillery shelling and air strikes, often using unguided, high-explosive barrel bombs dropped from helicopters. The attacks caused numerous civilian deaths and injuries, including of children. For example, a barrel bomb attack on Baideen, Aleppo governorate, on 5 February killed at least 24 civilians and injured 80. An air strike on the Sahat al-Ghanem market in Duma on 16 August killed around 100 civilians and wounded hundreds. Aerial bombing accounted for half of all civilian fatalities, according to the Violations Documentation Center, a Syrian NGO.
Government forces also carried out dozens of suspected chlorine gas attacks in areas controlled by non-state armed groups, particularly in Idleb governorate, causing civilian casualties. In one attack on 16 March, government helicopters reportedly dropped barrels containing chlorine on and around Sermin, Idleb governorate, killing a family of five and injuring around 100 civilians.
Government forces maintained prolonged sieges of predominantly civilian areas in and around Damascus, including Eastern Ghouta, Daraya and Yarmouk, exposing the residents to starvation and denying them access to medical care and other basic services, while subjecting them to repeated air strikes, artillery shelling and other attacks.
Government forces continued to target health facilities and medical workers in areas controlled by armed opposition groups. They repeatedly bombed hospitals and other medical facilities, barred or restricted the inclusion of medical supplies in humanitarian aid deliveries to besieged and hard-to-reach areas, and disrupted or prevented health care provision in these areas by detaining medical workers and volunteers. The NGO Physicians for Human Rights accused government forces of systematically attacking the health care system in areas controlled by armed opposition groups and of responsibility for the deaths of the vast majority of the 697 medical workers killed in Syria between April 2011 and November 2015.
Yours was a compound sentence, and I made clear I was especially denying the nasty bit about Maz. I recall only one time Glenn told me how he voted. It would, indeed, surprise no one.
He never said who he supported in the primaries. (And I wouldn’t say who if he had.) But based on things he did publicly say, I strongly suspect he supported Bernie.
We’ve discussed the morality of voting in the upcoming presidential election. I’ll just say our views there are similar.
You thought this bit of speculative outreach was so provocative you posted it on two threads?
I’m really fucking curious.
Syria knows who the terrorist are but the corrupt foreign establishment is not willing to let the masses know that the establishment want a regime change in place in order to keep stealing the natural resources from sovereign nations who have not ask the usa to intervene, nor fly in syrian airspace, nor have boots on syria’s ground either. Time for the entire world masses to open their eyes to the corrupt propaganda perpetrated openly with their media lapdogs.
Note: American across the land must view the following Brilliant videos by Syrian Girl:
the truth about two syrian boys, and only one was propagandized by the corrupt media lapdogs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jifS0fi9WB8
what the kosher puppet kerry and the corrupt envoy of the (false front) united nations did not want the masses to realize because the usa has lost a decisive argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jifS0fi9WB8
The fallout of the corrupt establishment is one’s gullibility – Alejandro Grace Ararat.
craigsummers v craigsummers
The random musings lightly [edited] for accuracy:
“I hope you keep [remind]ing [everyone of] what [a hypocrite] I am.
[I criticize the war crimes of official US enemies while vigorously supporting and] condoning the war crimes [of] the US [and its vassals. So Turkey, ISIL, and Saudi Arabia] continue to kill [Kurdish,] Syrian, [Yemeni, and many other] civilians in boatloads[, but I only pretend to care about those the Russians and Syrians kill].
[The US, Russia, and their proxies] have killed thousands of civilians in Syria [and throughout the Middle East, but an unprincipled US authority-worshiping psychopath can only see the atrocities] committed by Russian and regime bombers – a classic case of [hypocrisy].
[Here’s some] classic case[s] of whataboutery [AND hypocrisy:] What does international law say about the [US bombing and invading countries like Syria and Iraq] – or the civil war [sparked] by the [US-backed coup] in Ukraine? [W]ere the [Americans] invited in by the [Iraqi] government? [I don’t care, and even if I pretended that I did,] that does not absolve [me] of [my lust and] support for the bombing of civilians – [when done at the behest of] the US.
Regardless, [I am] still a [hypocrite.]
I [am un]convinc[ing about my] “good” intentions [because I can only pretend to care about civilians when they are the victims of US “enemies”. So I churn out pronouncements like, “]Russia killed tens of thousands of Chechens” [while defending or just ignoring the many thousands more killed by the US]. Hmmmm – sounds a little p[sychopathic] to me.
I sure like the “[principled]” approach [decent human beings] are [capable of] taking on this conflict. Then again, (more) [bloodshed] seems to [be the only thing that can] suddenly [get me excited these days].”
You are such a fucking idiot. No one gives one flying fuck about these posts – except Mona (and the idiot sillyputty) who cannot win an argument so she supports your personal attacks. They are long-winded and worthless. You can give it up and join the discussion or continue your cowardly approach to replying to my posts. Of course, I have always considered you a radical, far left gutless poster anyway so maybe you will just continue……
Thanks Doc.
Sounds like a surrender. You have clearly been caught out in the hypocrisy of your arguments. If no one cares, what are you doing?
Don’t bother to answer. No one cares.
“……..You have clearly been caught out in the hypocrisy of your arguments…….”
If someone calls me out for being hypocritical, I’m OK with that. However, Doc’s format is boring, long-winded and mostly involve personal attacks. The posts (which repeat my posts every time) just clutter the thread. No one (with a brain) reads them. I am just trying to help Doc out. He can do better than that.
Thanks.
My questions are so obvious, so stupid, it should be pretty easy to answer them:
1 from where do you get your moral certainty regarding correct options in Syria?
2 does legitiamacy of election of a president allow for bombing parts of his country (i.e. would you accept bombing from an American president?)
3 is killing non-combatants always unacceptable or not? If it is always unacceptable, as I believe (this is a baseline; I think killing “combatants” is hardly to be cheered either) then what are the implications to your stated positions regarding Syria?
4 here’s a new one: is it possible that the “White Helmets” might be implicated in overall violence, yet also saving people who are being bombed? What do we conclude, if this is the case?
Vic, those are all good questions. There have been many good questions asked in comments here along your lines, but virtually no answers. Lots of invidious characterizations of the questioners, e.g., “anti-American,” “selective humanitarians,” but damn few substantive, responsive answers.
From the moral principle of universality:
Everyone must be held to the same standards as everyone else. I must at a minimum hold myself to the same standards I hold others.
Yes if parts of his country are invaded (i.e. if America was invaded, the President would still be obliged to obey international laws and avoid civilian casualties while defending the country from the invaders.
Every effort must be made to avoid civilian casualties. Those who target civilians are war criminals. Those who initiate wars – even if they otherwise make every effort to avoid civilian causalities – have committed the supreme international war crime as codified at Nuremberg.
Apply the same standards we should apply to everyone else: start with, “Are they committing acts of violence under the cover of “protected status” in violation of the Geneva Conventions?”
Mona’s answer was useful and honest.
Doc’s was….well….avoiding most of the more important aspects of the questions, with a lot of mealy-mouthed New York Times type hedging. You should run for office, Doc, your evasions are professional.
Please forgive my terrible foolishness in ever contemplating, much less bothering to post a reply.
The “more important aspects” nuanced within your “so obvious, so stupid” questions have left me bewildered and awed.
I was not as polite as I ought to have been. But the “moral principle of universality” you reference in the first answer, while it is a very fine thing I am sure, didn’t answer the question about how people know what is right and wrong in Syria now. Especially from thousands of miles away, in a fog of competing propagandist efforts, it didn’t do the trick: why do people feel so sure they understand who the right and wrong “sides” are?
So sorry, your answer didn’t tell us about that. And when you say simultaneously that a president is allowed to bomb his own country but should minimize civilian casualties well….wouldn’t NOT bombing be the best way to minimize civilian casualties? These are the sorts of conundrums that left me frustrated.
Where’s Jeremey Scahill when you need him?
Where’s Jermey Swahili when you need him?
I don’t get it. Swahili is a language spoken in east Africa. What does it have to do with Scahill?
@Ross
No.
Maz Hussain’s material on Syria is reflective of the schism on the left over Syria. This site also publishes writers who strongly disagree with Maz on this subject, such as Rania Khalek. Hopefully she will soon address the other positions(s) on Syria.
To get a sense of the discord on this subject see Glenn Greenwald’s Twitter timeline yesterday. He, I, and quite a few others got into it about Maz, how to characterize Maz and his arguments, and how Maz and others have (outrageously) characterized other leftists who disagree with him, including Khalek.
You might want to consider…
On September 28, 2016, the New York Times gave us a good example of how Washington’s propaganda system works.http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/middleeast/russias-brutal-bombing-of-aleppo-may-be-calculated-and-it-may-be-working.html?_r=0
The headline set the stage: “Russia’s Brutal Bombing of Aleppo May Be Calculated, and It May Be Working.” According to the NYT report, Russia was not bombing ISIS. Russia was “destroying hospitals and schools, choking off basic supplies, and killing aid workers and hundreds of civilians.”
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/09/30/bring-back-the-cold-war-paul-craig-roberts/
“If you believe the 2014 presidential election in Syria was “bogus,” tell us why and cite credible evidence.” Doug
Like your pal Mona, I doubt you care about whether the elections were fair or not. Your concern is how you can blame the US for everything.
Since your question is easy allow me to give the answer so I can prove your ignorance and bad faith: The Syrian Constitution and Syrian laws.
1) Constitution Article 85/3: Candidates must have the support of 15% of the Syrian Parliament
2) Constitution Article 60/ 2. 50% of the Syrian Parliament seats are reserved to independent “farmers and labors”. The president ( Assad) picks members of a commission that will form committees that decide who is a “farmer” and who is a “laborer”.
3) Constitution Article 132/133. The president (Assad) is the head of the Supreme Judicial Commitee. Candidates can appeal if they are rejected by a committee. The president (Assad) picks members of the appeal commitee.
4) Penal Code 307: Statements that weaken “national sentiment” are illegal in Syria. 50% of Syria Parliament seats can be contested by political parties but NOT A SINGLE CANDIDATE BLAMES ASSAD FOR THE CIVIL WAR. NOT A SINGLE CANDIDATE SUGGESTED INVESTIGATION FOR WAR CRIMES POSSIBLY COMMITTED BY GOVERNMENT TROOPS. THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL TO MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS.
5) Media Law Article 26. Media outlets are not authorized to raise issues concerning the Presidency ( Assad) or to publish military information that contradicts information released by the Ministry of Defense. Candidates cannot go on TV and say Syrian Army has killed civilians! That would contradict statements from the Ministry.
Those laws insured that members of parliament who have the duty to nominate presidential candidates were essentially Assad appointees. The “opponents” the parliament nominated NEVER criticize Assad for anything. It would be illegal anyway to criticize the Presidency.
6) Syrian refugees who left Syria without being cleared by the government were not allowed to vote. So, Syrians who run away from ISIS held areas to Turkey or rebels held areas to Jordan were not allowed to vote in Syrian embassies.
Now call me a Zionist and a troll and keep working hard to prove yourself that the US and Israel are responsible for Syria carnage while the fairly elected Assad is defending his people.
You are a troll, and I usually ignore you. A prudent course I shall continue here. Citing my name all the time won’t change that; I can’t be baited.
Bait? What a fool!! You can ignore whomever you want. It doesn’t mean they don’t have to demonstrate how ignorant you are.
Without bothering to address or assess your points individually, I’ll just say that none of them makes the referenced election “bogus” and taking them all together doesn’t do that, either. At least, they don’t make it any more bogus than elections held around the world, every year, that Western powers find perfectly acceptable.
Virtually every ostensible democracy on the planet has processes in place to filter candidates for high office in ways that prevent any but those blessed by the establishment from reaching seats of power. Some of those processes are less crude, but certainly not less effective, than others.
Anyway, none of this matters. Assad is, indisputably, the leader of the recognized government of Syria and the actions taken by certain Western powers to foment civil war and to overthrow that government are crimes — crimes against peace — under international law. See Nuremberg Principle VI.
And there is no doubt, not the slightest, that the actions of the US and its allies are largely, arguably primarily, responsible for the carnage in Syria. And Iraq. And Libya. And Afghanistan. And Yemen. And. . .
You forgot to mention Israel in your delusional rant.
You forgot to toss your word salad, ziotard.
Whataboutery Doug. Besides you and Mona got the proof you asked for and now make excuses for not accepting it.
Good on Mani for exposing you both.
Anyway, none of this matters. Assad is, indisputably, the leader of the recognized government of Syria and the actions taken by certain Western powers to foment civil war and to overthrow that government are crimes — crimes against peace — under international law. See Nuremberg Principle VI.
it mattered until you were proved wrong.
But nobody proved him wrong, and the legal point he made is absolutely correct.
Gil “sees” his opponents proven wrong with great frequency. The only others who also “see” it are unhinged trolls such as Mani. And so, of course, Gil loves Mani.
“Gil “sees” his opponents proven wrong with great frequency. ”
Only because you are frequently my opponent.
“And so, of course, Gil loves Mani.”
Are you in the 3rd grade?
No one reasonable, whose opinion matters, is going to believe that — not if they’ve been reading both of us for any length of time. At least twice you’ve grudgingly admitted I was right.(Which, by the way, is commendable. Some people will never do that, under any circumstances.) But more often, you obfuscate, misdirect and pretend not to see the obvious error of your claims and “reasoning.”
That’s actually kind of funny, juxtaposed with what I wrote. But I think you know I wasn’t saying you “love Mani” in the “sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G” way. You scamper to high-five that moron with some frequency. What is it? His endless litany of “LOL LOL LOL?” No, it’s that he hates the same people here that you do, and any port in a storm….
“No one reasonable, whose opinion matters, is going to believe that”
What makes you think you are a judge of whats reasonable.”
.” Some people will never do that, under any circumstances”
You mean people like you.
“You scamper to high-five that moron with some frequency. ”
Total BS . I’ ll leave this board forever if you can find 4 examples. That high 5 ing stuff is what you and Doug do. Wanna bet I can find more than 4 examples of that?
The discussion had nothing to do with legality.
Or with frum israel-worshiping Zionist terrorist bottom feeders, like you, cretin.
Come on Doug, enough is enough.
“Come on Doug, enough is enough.”
Awww, wasssamatta? Can’t handle the pace, ziopath? :)
Of course I proved him wrong. Only a fool would look at the Syrian Constitution and Syrian laws and state elections are free and fair in Syria. I have consistently repeated this is a comedy show. They brag about how “well informed” they are, but they are in fact a band of delusional anti American and anti Semitic.
His legal point is even more insane. The Nuremberg Principle VI section a) ” crime against peace ” cannot be applied here since the rebels have the justification of self defence: There was no civil war until Assad started shooting and killing peaceful protestors. Western powers are helping rebels who are defending themselves against war crimes. That Nuremberg principle is applicable in Ukraine against Russia, but he will never admit it since he is delusional.
Now call me a Zionist and tell us how the US and Israel fabricated the stories about Assad killing peaceful demonstrators.
Nah, you israel-worshiping anti-American anti-Semitic Zionist shill, you proved that you can’t read, and that you’re an amoral cretin who engages in whataboutery and invents strawman arguments in order to “prove” people wrong.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Why don’t you tell us the one about the “israeli-only NOT, NOT, NOT, Jewish-only apartheid-only roads” again, anti-Semite…ROFL!
With pleasure:
You are a treacherous, israel-worshiping, Syrian-baiting Zionist anti-Semite. The United States and your precious Zionist parasites are very much “responsible” for the carnage in Syria. No one here, or anywhere, owes you a fucking favor, you vile Zionist pig. Go show your little terrorist friends on EOZ/Stormfront your ‘mazing strawman argument and whataboutery madskillz, ziotard.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug!
Yes,totally agree,my experiences with it left me in hell for quite awhile.
Er…Yea, of course, you Zionism addicted israel-worshiping zio crack whore, if you say so…LOL!
Gil, Doug didn’t commit “whataboutery.” Do you actually know what that is? Can you set forth the form?
Yes
Then you would have done so. You don’t know what whataboutery actually is.
LMAO…Yea, you israel-worshiping anti-American anti-Semitic Zionist shill, because you and your frum little israel-worshiping zio butt-buddy GilGa-leh, are really here because you sooooo deeply “care about whether the elections were fair or not” in Syria, and because you sooooo desperately want to defend America’s honor, because teh zios just loooove America sooooo sooooo much. :)
HAHAHAHA!
Why don’t you tell us the one about “Jewish self-determination” next, anti-Semite…ROFL!
With pleasure:
You are a treacherous, israel-worshiping, Arab-hating Zionist anti-Semite. The United States and your precious Zionist parasites are very much “responsible” for the carnage in Syria. No one here, or anywhere, owes you a fucking favor, you vile Zionist pig. Go bore your little terrorist friends on EOZ/Stormfront with your inane “Syrian Constitution and Syrian laws” copypasta.
The helmet’s color isn’t any issue as far as Assad is concerned, the real problem lies on those perspired wahhabis shitheads where the helmets are sitting on.
Hmmm? An article @ White Helmets which doesnt mention allegations or the evidence that its a tool of Western Itel svs (CIA et al)? And is singing Uncle Sams anti Russia anthem these days? Caution folks there are Imperial wolves in sheeps clothing lurking at the INTERCEPT…Study its financial backer. Perhaps the project is to subtly influence the left on certain issues? This is the way you do it.
Hmmm? An article @ White Helmets which doesnt mention allegations or the evidence that its a tool of Western Itel svs (CIA et al)? And sings Uncle Sams anti Russia anthem these days? Beware The Intercept folks. It is a project of Pierre Omidyar who is not impartial in this new Cold War and is firmly anti Russia. Praise be to Glenn, Laura, etc. BUT there are Imperial wolves in sheeps clothing lurking in the INTERCEPT. Perhaps their project is to subtly influence you radicals? This is the way you do it.
@GilG, who wrote a long, empty, ad hom pile of meaningless bilge about me, but closed with something I will address
As far as that observation about Glenn goes, it’s true. However, he and I had a very strong disagreement — first by email, and then yesterday it broke out publicly on Twitter — about Maz Hussain and critics of non-interventionists. There are innumerable instances where Glenn and I vigorously disagree.
I was being sarcastic Mona. No one gives a hoot about alleged relationship with Glenn. You remind me of the old Steve Martin routine where he makes fun of Las Vegas lounge acts who are always saying “Sammy Davis Jr. a personal friend of mine”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0G0hP7n-s
Gil, you do this an awful lot. Repeatedly, you deny or express skepticism about something you should google before embarrassing yourself.
Your buddy, Craig Summers, has frequently accused me of “failing to disclose” that I’m Glenn’s former law partner. As well as friend of 20 years who has edited some of his books.
I’ve been interviewed by journalists for profiles of Glenn. My name is on federal appellate court decision as being on the case with him. It’s all out there if you look.
You really must cultivate a habit of googling before continually making an ass of yourself.
I dont doubt you know him. I just think its funny that you need to mention it every 3rd post,and pretending that your current role in his life is as anything other then toadie.
Oh and in case you missed it.
GilG ? -Mona-
Oct. 2 2016, 4:07 p.m.
…The same Mona who previously said “Link. Or it didn’t happen.” and then lied and claim she never said it, is now asking me for a link
Mona- ? GilG
Oct. 2 2016, 4:58 p.m.
Oh for fuck’s sake. I never denied I said that.
but of course Mona did deny she said it.
-Mona- ? GilGamesh
Sep. 30 2016, 1:14 p.m.
I’ve never said a thing doesn’t exist without a link.
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/29/maybe-donald-trump-listened-megyn-kelly-instead-roger-ailes/?comments=1#comment-288733
Too funny.
Yes Gil, vis-a-vis a specific, contentious claim you made I said I’d have to see a link or it doesn’t exist. Never did I state that all fact claims at all times require a link and I’d never say anything so stupid.
Reasonable people make fact claims all the time that other reasonable people do not demand links for. But as I said in my “lie” that you link to, contentious claims need not be accepted without a link.
And speaking of your link, I do recommend others read that whole sub-thread to see how poorly you reason and argue.
Face it you were caught in a lie again Mona.
Gil translated: “Ok, fine, so you know him really well. Now I’ma gonna spew some other insult to direct away from my embarrassing failure to google an easily ascertained fact that I skeptically sneered at. Something that I often have to do.”
And Gil, why don’t you and your pal Craig huddle and decide the exact right number of times and places I need to state my history with Glenn so that I am not, on the one hand, accused of “failing to disclose,” and on the other, purportedly “mentioning it every third post.”
Nope. What I said was
“I dont doubt you know him. I just think its funny that you need to mention it every 3rd post,and pretending that your current role in his life is as anything other then toadie”
Thanks for giving me the chance to say it again.
Gil, anyone can read your link. And anyone with the least familiarity with me knows I’d never say that every single fact claim must have a supporting link. They can also see that, yet again, you sneered skeptically at a fact claim, and yet again tap danced to avoid admitting how stupid it was to have done that without googling first. If anyone else is still reading this thread, I’m content to let our respective reputations, and our comments, speak for themselves.
You say the same type of thing every time you get caught in a lie or are faced with facts you dont like, as you did above when faced with the facts I presented concerning the Syrian election.
You are delusional about your reputation.
I don’t lie on political boards (everyone has lied in interpersonal matters), and no one here with the least familiarity with me, whose opinion I care about, is going to believe you. You repeatedly make unfounded assertions, and on a few occasions have admitted it when I incontrovertibly showed you were wrong. But more often you either really can’t follow the argument, or are dishonestly ducking and bobbing. Either way, I piss you off.
It’s not uncommon for people basically opposed to the viewpoints at this site to be especially angry and outraged at me. You’re not the first and won’t be the last. My command of relevant facts pisses of a lot of them and they, like you, resort to all kinds if empty insults, such as that I “lie.”
Usually, I ignore that silly personal insult stuff, but with you I’m genuinely uncertain whether you are disingenuously claiming not to understand, or whether you really believe I’m lying, wrong & etc. That is, I’m on the fence as to whether you are stupid or dishonest. If the former, I’ve found it worthwhile to explain, but after a point it won’t matter and I’ll ignore your baseless insults as I usually do with others.
One cannot blame the author for being seriously deluded, it’s a common problem. However, the fact that The Intercept ran with this article and presented it to their well informed readership (see previous comments) is a different matter. If the white helmets are up for an Oscar nomination maybe the Intercept should nominate Mr. Hussain for Journalist of the Year.
Goodbye Intercept
I wonder where the commenters get their righteous moral certainty from. What I see is civilians dying in an evil mess. How do you regard one form civilians dying as more “right” than another? Do you justify bombing?
If these questions are unfair or misguided (I figure they are!) then do a better job of explaining your points than you have so far — cuz hint hint you haven’t. What is the “right” position on this?
I think the history of fake reports fake news and pure propaganda hardens the heart and when people like Samantha Power delivers dramatic performances like she recently did at the UN, it get very difficult to mount any sympathy for what’s pretty hard to believe is even true.
It seems like the Russians and Syria is bombing hospitals every other day, and after a while you start to wonder how many hospitals can there be left after 5 years? I know Syria had a superior (free) healtcare system before the war, but still?
The countries in the axis of evil that get theese humanitarian interventions have some common denominations like free education, free healthcare and leaders crazy enough to say “Fu&k off” to western imperialists.
If only Assad had given the attacks cool names like “Shock ‘n awe” I’m sure the media would be more supportive.
Syria’s White Helmets ( aka, Western Imperialist’s propaganda force).
Hi Murtaza,
I am generally a big fan your work in a particular, and The Intercept as a whole, more generally. I realize that inevitably no news organisation can please everyone 100% of the time, and so I am predisposed to just let things I don’t disagree with ‘slide’. The intercept, has for example, been ‘holding it’s fire’ on Hillary who has the blood of hundreds of thousands on her hands in preference to ‘Trump’, who doesn’t. But I understand that many find him odious in a variety of complete my understandable reasons, and an overabundance of negative pieces on him is somehow understandable, as is the the relative dearth of coverage on this site on the role of Al Qaeda on the ‘revolution’ in Syria. You’re not experts in this subject area after all, and maybe it makes sense for everybody to stick to what they know.
Your current piece more problematic. It’s an out and out apologia for the the PR wing of the Al Qaeda in Syria. The fact that from time to time takfiri fighters drop their weapons don some focus grouped headgear and stage some ridiculous ‘rescue’ scenes for the benefit of Western audiences in order to keep pipeline money arms and materiel flowing to groups like Jahbat al-Nusrah, Ahrar al-Dham and Nour al-Din al-Zenki, doesn’t make them ‘heroic’.
In any case, the term ‘activist’ is wholly unjustified. There is no ‘activism’ possible in Al Qaeda controlled territory. What could that even mean? Can you imagine them staging a protest or a petition campaign against Al-Nusra, demanding that they stop the shelling Western Allepo? Can you imagine that any group under the control of Al-Nusra, would have enough autonomy to prioritize medical care and distribution of supplies to local residents above the provision of the same to the terrorist groups? If you can’t answer yes to the above, how can you maintain that the ‘white helmets’ are an autonomous ‘neutral’ organization committed to the ‘civil defense’ of Syria?
By the way there was a demonstration organized in Eastern Allepo recently, but I’m actually not sure what the position of the ”Whit Helmets” in relation to the demands made. Perhaps this is something you could clarify with Mr. Saleh? The demonstration was organized to protest the US/Russian negotiated ceasefire, which the demonstrators said alleged was an outrage. They were also incensed at the plans to send Humanitarian supplies to east Allepo, and insisted that this was some thing they would never allow. This took place just days before the coordinated USAF/ISIS attack against the Syrian army regiment holding Isis back from Deir al-Zour, and the subsequent attack against the red crescent convoy that balanced the news cycle.
Anyway, I could go on, but I don’t want to say anything that would be considered ‘Lurid’ so let me cao it off with this: there really aren’t many publications in the world that are even worth making a comment like this on. No matter what the truth, they can’t be convinced to cover it unless doing so would be considered appropriate by the Washington Consensus. The Intercept doesn’t seem to operate under this kind of restriction, which makes it all the more unfortunate to see it parrot the US government line.
Supporters of the above article, and of intervening in Syria, are claiming that Assad has not been validly elected as president of that country. This is the Wikipedia entry on the Syrian 2014 election. There isn’t much there to suggest the election was unfair or fraudulent. But I’ll take evidence, from reputable sources, showing it was.
A dictator winning 80-95% of a so-called election …Mona ..I suppose Kim Jong Un, Saddam Hussain, Qaddafi all won free and fair elections. Didn’t realize you were as dumb as that.
Did you know that the Vietnam war happened because the US refused to allow democratic elections to happen? You are right to doubt Assad’s commitment to democracy, but the US doesn’t want free and fair elections in Syria either … because they are afraid Assad might actually win.
I am not disputing the fact, that, the US doesn’t want free elections , and the mantra about spreading democracy is a crock. However, the lady Mona is outright suggesting that Assad is a democratically elected leader ? WTF !!
You are very reasonable and I would encourage her to adopt a more conservative position. The people who read The Intercept are clearly better informed and less indoctrinated than the general population. We probably agree with each other more than we realize.
Assad is an elected leader of Syria ? Wait what ?
Looks like dear, lovely liberal Mona has completely lost her mind, in her desperation to label all groups fighting her hero Assad, as jihadis and terrorists. Bahahaha ha.
I’ve been following this fairly closely since the origins of this mess around the time of the Arab Spring (leaving aside, for the moment, the apparent decision by Western powers that “Assad has to go” in the wake of Syria’s decision to support the “wrong” oil pipeline). I’m not aware of any credible evidence that the 2014 election was less valid than any number of elections under difficult and/or chaotic circumstances that the US and its allies have no trouble accepting.
The argument is often made that it isn’t possible to have a valid election in the midst of a civil war, but I haven’t heard any proponents of that argument suggest that Lincoln’s 1864 election was invalid.
Thanks, Doug. Wiki, of course, isn’t gospel but it’s often a good starting place. I didn’t see any promising links in their footnotes to explore this issue.
So now I’m wondering if there is any “there there” on these accusations about Syrian elections. I’ve seen them before, but don’t know what facts anyone has marshaled to support the claim. Wiki usually at least hints when there’s that kind of genuine controversy.
I would say that earlier elections were much more problematic and, of course, Assad originally inherited the office from his father.
Also, even in 2014, the final opposition candidates were “approved” members of the establishment — but that’s pretty much how it works in the US and most other places, is it not?
Americans don’t really expect candidates who fundamentally challenge the system to be taken seriously or given equal access to the media, do they?
“I’m not aware of any credible evidence that the 2014 election was less valid than any number of elections under difficult and/or chaotic circumstances that the US and its allies have no trouble accepting.
You are right Doug the US sometimes accepts bogus elections of rulers when it furthers a political agenda. You of course are doing no such thing. :)
If you believe the 2014 presidential election in Syria was “bogus,” tell us why and cite credible evidence.
Well, beyond that I wonder what powers come with being democratically elected.
So we are all cool with legitimately elected US presidents bombing big sections of the US in case of rebellion, correct?
(Scarily enough, I can see a lot of creepy American partisans going with that. They would just pick different neighborhoods).
yeah why would anyone think there is anything unfair about an election that requires candidates to be approved by 35 sitting members of the parliament, and there are less then 35 members of parliament who are not Baath party members or aligned with the Baath party.
Gil, bases on extensive experience of you, I trust nothing you state, including your conclusions. Either link to something deploying facts and logic to make your argument, or I’m not crediting it.
Pretty funny once again the queen of hypocrisy who excoriated me for asking for a link about Rachael Maddow because it could be found on the internet with google. The same Mona who previously said “Link. Or it didn’t happen.” and then lied and claim she never said it, is now asking me for a link. Too funny. I will respond with instructions so you can take the advice you gave me and google it yourself
First look at the Wikipedia article you linked to on the Syrian elections and read the section the requirements for being allowed to run. then the google the Syrian parliament and read the section that details the number of members which are either in the Baath party or independents who are aligned with the Baath party. Then do the math. If the math is too complicated for you let me know and I will help you.
Oh for fuck’s sake. I never denied I said that. I denied I took the position you subsequently accused me of.
Again, Gil, given your record, I’m not crediting any of your fact claims or “reasoning” absent a link to some credible source setting it forth. That is, Gil: Link or it didn’t happen. [giggle]
” I’ve never said a thing doesn’t exist without a link. ”
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/29/maybe-donald-trump-listened-megyn-kelly-instead-roger-ailes/?comments=1#comment-288733
your pants are on fire Mona.
The interesting thing is to compare the elections that Americans have been told (either outright by the government/media, or implicitly by the same) are ‘not democratic’, or ‘not real’ and those they are told represent the will of the people of the state in question. It quickly becomes apparent that the determine factors aren’t who gets to run, how open the campaigns are, how free the people are to cast votes as they wish, how free from fraud the voting and counting process is, nor even whether everyone who should be able to vote is allowed to. The sole thing that is consistent in all cases is whether the winner is willing to kowtow to Washington, or not.
Generally, I avoid absolute statements such as that, but overall it appears to be true.
@Joe
I call plagiarism! I’ve read that before, I know I have….oh yeah! It went like this:
Come on, Joe, give credit to your script writer. You know you took that right out of the “Bushbot and Neoconservative Playbook,” first edition, published in 2003.
Oh fuck -Mona- I think you’ve got it!
Not supporting Arab dictators is neoconservative. Pure genius I say.
How much of what we are told about Syria – or anything else – do you believe?
Pentagon paid PR firm 540mn to make fake terrorist videos
Published time: 2 Oct, 2016 16:39
“The Pentagon paid a UK PR firm half a billion dollars to create fake terrorist videos in Iraq in a secret propaganda campaign exposed by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
PR firm Bell Pottinger, known for its array of controversial clients including the Saudi government and Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet’s foundation, worked with the US military to create the propaganda in a secretive operation.
The firm reported to the CIA, the National Security Council and the Pentagon on the project with a mandate to portray Al-Qaeda in a negative light and track suspected sympathizers.
Both the White House and General David Petraeus, the former general who shared classified information with his mistress, signed off on the content produced by the agency.”
https://www.rt.com/usa/361385-pentagon-pr-firm-terrorist-videos/
No point in reiterating what so many astute readers have already written about the WHs, and their real role in Neocon Theater.
I would suggest that The Intercept should – no *must* do far better than printing warmongering propaganda such as this.
Was going to post a comment castigating Murtaza for posting such egregious pro-US/NATO propaganda about a will-documented pro-Terrorist support & media organization… but it looks like the world beat me to it. For a realistic view: https://youtu.be/8aAaReVn2I4
Video of the White Helmets helping rebels execute a prisoner (at the 3:05 mark)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo
Says it all as does Vanessa Beeley’s writing on the White Helmets
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/21/who-are-the-syria-white-helmets/
“White Helmets,” the Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS), and the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) are tools of propaganda for the US – which has long had plans for Syria that would leave much of its population at the mercy of ISIL [see Head to Head, Al Jazeera, 29 July 2015: Mehdi Hasan‘s interviews Former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency Michael Flynn].
Nonetheless, the Syrian and Russian militaries are deliberately bombing hospitals and civilians [see: MSF (Médecins Sans Frontiers) urges Syrian government and its allies to stop indiscriminate bombing in Aleppo, 30 September 2016 and MSF stops sharing Syria hospital locations after ‘deliberate’ attacks, 18 February 2016.
People who say that journalists should not allow themselves to be turned into propaganda tools often forget that the other side is even worse. As a journalist, sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils.
And the lesser of two evils for the White Helmets is a who pays them more. In this case it’s their American backers.
Considering what we’ve bared witness to since 9/11 in addition to the case history of US hegemony, Coups, Black sites, Extraordinary Rendition, Torture and assassinations, how could anyone possibly see America as the lesser of 2 evils?
When have MSF ever shared hospital locations with the Russians or anyone?
When these claims of ‘field hospitals’ being bombed was made the Russians asked for evidence of their location – none was ever given. This is the endless propaganda. Claims made and evidence never provided.
Let’s admit it. Everybody bombs MSF hospitals.
It had been Médecins Sans Frontiers‘s (MSF) standard practice. For example, the Kunduz Hospital where 30 staff members and patients were killed on October 3, 2015 in a US attack:
“U.S. special operations forces were deployed to the Kunduz airfield the morning of Sept. 29 and engaged in nearly five consecutive days and nights of heavy fighting against the Taliban, which had recently taken control of the city. [Gen. John F.] Campbell [the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan] acknowledged receiving coordinates of the Kunduz hospital from Doctors Without Borders (Médecins Sans Frontiers) on Sept. 29.”
“………Nonetheless, the Syrian and Russian militaries are deliberately bombing hospitals and civilians [see: MSF (Médecins Sans Frontiers) urges Syrian government and its allies to stop indiscriminate bombing in Aleppo……”
A step in the right direction Doc – and I sure like the “objective” approach you are finally taking on this conflict. Then again, (more) objective journalism seems to suddenly be the rage of the Intercept.
That picture is not believable. Where is all the dirt and dust (or flour) on the guys?
I can’t believe The Intercept published this propagandist garbage. The Intercept is quickly losing all credibility!!
This article sounds perfect for the NYT, WSJ, WaPo, et al… Propaganda rubbish!
There are no white hats in this war. The White Helmet group has been infiltrated by all sides and has become a pawn in the greater conflict. To me, the White Helmets are an anti-Russian / anti-Assad propaganda tool. Yes, Assad is a brutal dictator but he is the lesser evil. Would it be better to let ISIS or its minions rule Syria? Would it be better to install a dictator that suits the US and the House of Saud or should we let the people of Syria decide? The west has no legitimate business in Syria.
By praising the White Helmets, The Intercept has bought, hook, line and sinker the State Department propaganda of regime change.
Very depressing!
If The Intercept, Democracy Now, Common Dreams… are so gullible…?
The White Helmets were created and very well funded by the State Department,UK and Gulf countries as a propaganda tool for regime change, the rescue part is as much for propaganda, as the pix and narrative.
They are very effective, obviously.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html
long w/Syria background, mid part, the propaganda effort
http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/02/24/a-mistaken-case-for-syrian-regime-change/
http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-propaganda-war-in-syria-report-ties-white-helmets-to-foreign-intervention/209435/
After reading the comments to this piece…which was simply an interview of the White Helmets leader…and not an opinion piece by Murtaza Hussain, the extent of support for Assad and his Russian handlers.
So called liberals, who one would expect to be sympathetic to the Syrains being slaughtered mercilessly by Assad , seem to aligned themselves with is brutal dictator.
The amount of vitriol being hurled at M. Hussain and the Intercept for merely publishing a sympathetic piece for those helping the defenseless Syrian civilians, is truly surprising. Hussain is being called a “jihadi” and “Al-Qaeda sympathizer ” . I am amazed.
Get back to us when you’ve learned to read, or to be hones, or both.
Yeah just because someone repeatedly characterizes the multiple elections of Assad as being democratic that is no reason to call those people pro Assad.
Got a citation, Gil? Nuance isn’t your thing, is it?
Anyway, even if someone believed and asserted that Assad’s elections were perfectly democratic — pure as the driven snow — it would not indicate that said individual was pro-Assad.
Think about it. Try.
Are you denying you defended the Syrian election process that brought Assad to power Doug?
Not responsive.
Yes, Gil is also big on non sequiturs and the non-responsive response.
I’ll take that as a no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo
now STFU!
Gil’s thing is spewing errors, both factual and of logic. In this very thread, he did it about MintPressNews, viciously claiming it was funded by Syria. On rare occasion he’ll admit I’m right, but more often tap dances around evidence of his spouting being bilge.
Oh, and he likes the troll “Mani,” gives that moron high-fives with some regularity. Peas in a pod.
Yes that was indeed a vicious comment. Imagine making a comment like that about a web site with no actual proof. That is certainly the type of thing you would never do Mona. I never see you accuse people of being paid to post on the internet without you providing proof positive that they are indeed paid. And even if they do it is certainly not done in the vicious manner in which I accused the Mint Press of being financed by Syria, you call these people out in a gentle fashion never resorting to ad-hominem.
And yes my thing is “factual errors” . For example if I denied saying something like ” if there is no link it didn’t happen” when the link providing the spot where I said that was provided someone like me wouldn’t admit it I would still deny. But of course you are honest Mona and would never do something like that. And if I accused someone of spewing errors I would of course not be able to document those errors and lack of documentation would not mean it isn’t true. But of course I slander people viciously, where of course you Mona would never do such a thing.
Gil, you idjit, there’s a huge difference — in both kind and degree — between, on the one hand, baseless claims about an established news publication you don’t like, and on the other, anonymous trolls who fit the profile of known-to-exist paid political trolls. (I and others have documented the existence of both Revise the REcord and hasbara trolls.)
As for your second paragraph, slow down. You must have spit that one out in a real hurry because it’s hard to make any sense of it.
Really what is the huge difference?
Looking forward to outrage the next time someone makes a claim about the NY Times that can’t be absolutely proven. hawhawhaw.
You can’t really be so stupid that you don’t know the difference. I assure you, almost everyone else here does.
And your error here has nothing to do with any argument in the form of: “a claim about X that can’t be absolutely proven.” Yanno Gil, if there is a community college near you, a Logic 101 course could possibly help.
another case of Mona retreating after making a claim she back up either with facts or logic. You used no logic Mona.
The true nature of the biases and ownership of Mint Press have been discussed widely on the web. There has been some compelling evidence. That you choose to ignore it doesn’t make questioning it viscous. On the other hand making false accusations about individuals based on nothing but your own paranoia is despicable.
Sure Assad is guilty for resisting the takeover of Syria by hundreds of different groups that combined only gather less than 10% support by Syrians. What I would like to see is USA asking the “rebels” (mostly foreignfighters denying civilians to leave) to get out of Aleppo. Or even better, to stop funding, arming and re-supply the so-called opposition. But since it’s never been about helping civilian populations you won’t see that happen.
I think you’ve missed the mark on just who these ‘White Helmets’ are. I refer you to this report:
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2016/09/29/why-everything-you-hear-about-aleppo-is-wrong/
The analysis of US foreign and domestic policy found at the WSWS is unparalleled; considered along with the pieces published at the Intercept (which conspicuously lack a “class orientation”, a deficiency which limits the impact of Intercept articles), the WSWS columns give a lot of insight about current policy in the context of history, ruling class propaganda, and ruling class agendas. Importantly, the bipartisan consensus in support of terrorism by the US government, media, and military is exposed by the coverage at the WSWS. Enormous crimes are being committed behind the backs of the public, and these policies are being paid for by the confiscated wealth of the public. The public is being made to foot the bill, and the public is lectured and exhorted by those who oppress and impoverish us to work harder and longer, and to shut up and stand up for national anthems, to disarm ourselves and to submit to the authority of the police terrorists, and to continue to listen to those whose careers are based on deceiving the public, and to vote and thus empower the right wing political operatives (Trump, Clinton–it doesn’t matter).
I would like to see from The Intercept greater analysis of the anatomy of the ruling class and its organizations and institutions, a deeper analysis of policy, propaganda and political economy. (For example, a review of Laurence Shoup’s book, “Wall Street’s Think Tank” and relating it to the shifting military and political strategies by Washington and the media strategies re: US aggression throughout the Greater Middle East and Africa)
A short list of worthwhile articles:
Barack Obama and a quarter-century of US wars
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/05/16/pers-m16.html
From June 2014:
Obama exploits Iraq crisis as pretext for war against Syria
wsws.org/en/articles/2014/06/20/iraq-j20.html
June 2014:
Who is responsible for the catastrophes in the Middle East?
wsws.org/en/articles/2014/06/30/pers-j30.html
August 2014:
The war cabal in Washington
wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/11/pers-a11.html
September 2014:
American imperialism and the rise of Islamic extremism in Syria and Iraq
wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/09/airi-s09.html
September 2014:
Obama’s war in Iraq and Syria
wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/10/pers-s10.html
September 2014:
Obama’s speech on ISIS: Perpetual war in Iraq, Syria and beyond
wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/12/pers-s12.html
September 2014:
Obama announces open-ended war in Iraq and Syria
wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/11/isis-s11.html
June 2015:
The US contemplates partitioning Iraq
wsws.org/en/articles/2015/06/22/pers-j22.html
August 2015:
Bernie Sanders: Silent partner of American militarism
wsws.org/en/articles/2015/08/27/sand-a27.html
September 2015:
Who is responsible for the refugee crisis in Europe?
wsws.org/en/articles/2015/09/04/pers-s04.html
October 2015:
Sanders backs US aggression in the Middle East
wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/12/pers-o12.html
November 2015:
Hillary Clinton calls for escalation of US war in Syria, Iraq
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/11/20/clin-n20.html
December 2015:
Obama vows expanded war in Syria
wsws.org/en/articles/2015/12/15/syri-d15.html
January 2016:
Washington to escalate US Mideast wars
wsws.org/en/articles/2016/01/30/iraq-j30.html
January 2016:
Pentagon chief outlines plan for escalation of Iraq-Syria war
wsws.org/en/articles/2016/01/15/cart-j15.htm
April 2016:
US authorizes intensified air strikes against civilians in Iraq and Syria
wsws.org/en/articles/2016/04/21/iraq-a21.html
April 2016:
Sanders backs Obama “kill list,” troops to Syria
wsws.org/en/articles/2016/04/27/kill-a27.htm
April 2016:
US deploys B-52s for bombing in Syria, Iraq
wsws.org/en/articles/2016/04/11/iraq-a11.html
May 2016:
US generals push for more troops in Iraq, Syria
wsws.org/en/articles/2016/03/10/iraq-m10.html
If Obama throws in some Dalmatian dogs too, then we could shift this story from Netflix to Disney!
I’ve been impressed by past articles by Murtaza, but this piece is sugarcoated with emotion and blacks out serious technical details that make Syria far more complex than ‘white helmets to the rescue’ storyline.
The white helmet strategy is simply ‘selective soft power’ by the west. Where’s the money for western white helmets in Yemen?
Syria has become a total global proxy war and all parties are guilty of war crimes. Peace is what few want unless it’s under their terms.
Neutral negotiators, like Jose Mujica & Jeremy Corbyn, have a far better probability at achieving sustainable peace than western white helmets.
The region’s political lines likely need to be redesigned, especially for the Kurds. Yet few want to discuss this either, especially the Turks.
Maybe a Syrian unity gov can be reformed too, but all options should be put up rather than a selective few that primarily focus on removing Assad.
Simply ‘Removing Assad’ is a solution that fails to address very real regional issues: Iran-Saudis, Israel-Palestine, Turks-Kurds, to name a few.
All just selectively throw ‘war crimes & terrorist’ allegations at the other while refusing to look in the mirror.
Keep in mind, whether Assad stays or goes, he represents a significant portion of the Syrian population who do not want to be ruled by highly conservative religious rebels, who could easily get into power via a vacuum (think Libya) rather than humans under western white helmets, whose sincerity I do buy but whose allegiance is already partially paid for by the west.
Yes, Iran+Russian-backed Assad has tortured & bombed civilians & hospitals, but so did Obama & GW Bush in the Middle East and daddy did help back Saddam Hussein’s chemical weapons on Iran in the 1980s.
There’s also currently this US base in a place called Guantanamo, in case any forgot, and a dude called Kissinger too!! I can’t wait for the new Neruda film starring Gael Garcia Bernal!
Do us a favor Murtaza…Stop posting fairytales and start picking potential peace paths. Maybe Mujica-Corbyn ain’t the best path, but put up some names-teams-orgs and ways that might get the job done.
The world is beyond sick of watching girls as sex slaves and boys as picture pawns for this international chess match that mostly profits the global military industrial complex.
The “White Helmets” are a propaganda NGO of the US/NATO/Gulf States ISIS-(Attack-)Forces in this 101st regime change / aggressive war against international law by the USA since 1953 (Mossadegh, Iran).
Bye bye, “The Intercept” propaganda medium!
This is information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mA0h7dCKI
Doug Salzmann blames the US for the Assad regime and Russian bombing of hospitals (responding to question from GK James on this thread)
“…….what would they have to do with — let alone justify — Russian and Syrian bombing of civilians and hospitals?……” – GK James
“……..When you start wars, that act (starting wars) has everything to do with the horrors of war that follow. That’s why “[p]lanning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances” is a crime (a “crime against peace”) under international law. See Principle VI of the Nuremberg Principles…….” – Doug Salzmann
Vanessa Beeley calling the Assad government “elected”:
“…….The White Helmets are perhaps being demonstrated to be the most crucial component of the US and NATO shadow state building inside Syria. Led by the US and UK this group is essential to the propaganda stream that facilitates the continued media and political campaign against the elected Syrian government and permits the US and NATO to justify their regime of crippling economic and humanitarian sanctions against the Syrian people……” – Vanessa Beeley
Ms. Beeley (besides the idiotic reference to Assad being elected) cites “crippling economic and humanitarian sanctions against the Syrian people……” by the US and NATO despite the bombing campaign by the Russians and the Assad regime which have killed thousands of innocent people.
According to al-Jazeera (today):
“………The military campaign by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Aleppo has sparked international condemnation after a series of air strikes on civilian infrastructure, including on the largest hospital in the city’s east. At least two barrel bombs hit the M10 hospital on Saturday, according to the Syrian American Medical Society, which supports the facility, in an attack fiercely condemned by UN chief Ban Ki-moon as a “war crime”……..”The health care system in eastern Aleppo is all but obliterated. Medical facilities are being hit one by one,” O’Brien wrote……..”
Those barrel bombs which are used exclusively and regularly by the Assad regime – and targeted the hospital Saturday – are the responsibility of the US according to Doug Salzmann. Is it any wonder that this radical left wing political philosophy remains a tiny minority in the west (of course, alternatively, Doug could just be another Russian-bot)?
Now I know that
at least as far as the war in Syria is concerned
“craigsummers” is here for murtaza.hussain.
Hussain should be ashamed of himself for allying with zionist interests.
Its really disgusting.
Shall we call him Abu Mazen Jr.?
White Helmets are Zionists ? Wow ..you learn something new everyday..
I am embarrassed and depressed that The Intercept has swallowed, hook, line and sinker the government,State Department neocon spin on the White Helmets/
The White Helmets were created and very well funded by the State Department, the UK and Gulf money as a TOOL of their regime change policy.
The White Helmets purpose is propaganda, and the rescue bit fits in nicely.
Their propaganda efforts have been a real success… The Intercept, Democracy Now… I think even Common Dreams lauded them in an article.
Their winning the Right Livelihood Award is tragic, for it shows that those of whom we thought were exemplars of “truth” and “decency can be sold ANYTHING…
a couple links that give some background for how the group was set up…
both are long, the second really long but worth it!!!
both contain background to the Syrian conflict that is not propaganda specific
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html
http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2012/02/24/a-mistaken-case-for-syrian-regime-change/
We live in an age of skepticism. Many people ask, “How can the White Helmets be an non-governmental organization, if they receive most of their funding from the US and UK governments?” It’s a good question, but it risks being caught up in details and losing sight of the big picture. The good guys are the ones who wear the white hats. This is something that everyone, regardless of whether they support Assad, Al Quaeda or ISIS, can agree on.
Now that the US and Russia have agreed to use Syria to conduct proxy war, the foresight in setting up the White Helmets organization has become evident. There is going to be a lot of rubble to dig through.
Nice try with the ‘we can all agree on’ nonsense but it’s more than about funding. Which by the way The White Helmets lie about – they claim they don’t get any funding from governments when practically all their funding is from governments. Good guys who lies through their teeth?
They lie about helping all Syrians when they only work in ‘rebel’ areas.
They were not created by Syrians but by a British ex-army military contractor who works with the Foreign Office.
They are on video and pictures with arms, cheering killings and present at executions. Boasting about what they do with Syrian soldiers bodies and taking selfies with Syrian soldiers who they’ve battered before they drive them to their death.
They upload a stream of ridiculous and many obviously fake videos of rescues. Giving some of the most farcical testimony to ‘atrocities’.
They are nothing more than Al Qaeda with a white hat on.
There already exist real rescuers and organisations who provide medical assistance to Syrians. So why aren’t they being promoted and written about in every inch of the media and a film being made about them with a massive marketing budget behind it?
“Benito” is being incisively sarcastic.
He/She is pointing out how easy it is to manipulate people
people (like the author of this article is doing)
into not examining beyond appearances.
I don’t deny there may be other organizations doing things which are equally worthy. But you should not dismiss the importance of good public relations. It is sometimes necessary to do 40 or 50 takes carrying a child out of the rubble, before you get a shot which can be used on your internet site. Governments can plant the seed with kick-off funding of organizations to carry out their agendas in foreign countries. But ultimately you need PR to build the public support that will lead to the ultimate goal of winning a Nobel peace prize.
When exactly does stuff like this become a Top Story and splashed over the banner?
Can The Intercept disclose that there was no sponsorship here?
The author here is wrapped up in his media world and his career like every other with their blinkers on present and past. Full marketing campaign for The White Helmets – he has to do his bit. He follows the carrot.
Claiming evidence against The White Helmets is no more than ‘lurid conspiracy theories’ is standard fare from his ilk. It’s all been said before whether it was Iraq, Serbia or Libya. Those lurid conspiracy theorists were right every time. Just recently the UK Foreign Affairs Committee wrote a report that the invasion of Libya was not based on any evidence of a massacre and was a mistake.
Who do you think has the money here? Every invasion and regime change has had billions from US govt sponsorship and marketing. Literally marketing companies are used to advertise and create public perception. Why do you think this film is even being made and where do you think the funding is coming from?
The White Helmets are nothing more than extremists with a makeover.
Did you bother to ask why they claim to be neutral and not receiving funds from any government and yet the US and UK governments have funded them multi millions from day one?
Did you bother to ask why they claim to help everyone in Syria and yet they only exist in ‘rebel’ held areas?
Did you bother to ask why their members are seen pictured and on video with extremist groups and armed?
Did you bother to ask why they like taking selfies with Syrian troops they have beaten up and then drive them to be executed?
Just a few basic questions:
1. Why and how can we assume that a member of the White helmets which is a part to a civil war will speak truthfully about questionable links and financial sources of his own organisation? See comment by Aron below.
2. Why is there so much media attention on one particular group in Aleppo, Syria and not on various groups operating under similar conditions in other places such as Jemen? Can the reason be that jemen is bombed to pieces by our ally, the regime of Saudi-Arabia? Imagine the media attention had Iran intervened in a neighbouring country in a similar way as is now done by the fundamentalist regime in Riyadh…
It appears that, via Netflix, mainstream discourse has finally reached The Intercept.
For a more accurate picture of the White Helmets actions in Syria readers of The Intercept should turn to the work of Vanessa Beeley, one of two independent women journalists – the other is Eva Bartlett – both of whom report from on the ground in Syria at great personal risk.
In a recent UN Peace Council Representatives press briefing, Vanessa Beeley was lauded for her work.
After visiting Syria the representatives formed the opinion that the American people are being lied to by the Western corporate media, to which Murtaza Hussain has been a contributor. He has written for both the New York Times and the Guardian.
Vanessa Beeley’s widely researched article into the White Helmets and its false claim to be a “non-governmental” organisation can be accessed by following the link:
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/21/who-are-the-syria-white-helmets/
In the interests of a free, balanced and independent media The Intercept should allow Vanessa Beeley a voice on the White Helmets.
Awesome post. You really nailed it. Kudos!
I am just listening to Vanessa on 21stcenturywire as I started reading this article. Wow, talk about cognative dissonance. She sounds a lot more credible than the pr that is being pushed here.
It’s sad that The Intercept would publish this imperialist propaganda. It appears that the government has agents on every U.S. site with a decent-sized audience. With censorship ramping up , I fear the accessible web will soon become a mere extension of the MSM – in other words , worthless.
How do you reply when people say that 21st Century Wire is a Russian govt propaganda org.
Bryan
From your link:
“…….The White Helmets are perhaps being demonstrated to be the most crucial component of the US and NATO shadow state building inside Syria. Led by the US and UK this group is essential to the propaganda stream that facilitates the continued media and political campaign against the elected Syrian government and permits the US and NATO to justify their regime of crippling economic and humanitarian sanctions against the Syrian people……”
When a journalist calls Assad “elected”, they are truly exposing their own political bias in their work. Indeed, by making such a ridiculous statement, she reduces her credibility to zero. Does Vanessa even realize that in a democracy, you don’t crack down on peaceful protesters by murdering hundreds in the streets? That is exactly the way this conflict started. To call Assad democratically elected is even more ridiculous than when Greenwald called the election of Ahmadinejad “democratic”.
“……For quite some time, it was Mahmoud Ahmadinejad – the democratically elected president of Iran…….”
I agree though, anti-western journalists like Vanessa Beeley would fit in nicely at the Intercept.
Well, Craig, I see you are consistent in your dismissals of anything that doesn’t fit the official narrative as ‘biased’, ‘ridiculous’, ‘propaganda’, and holding that anyone who dares mention it has ‘zero credibility’, despite, you know, those things being factual and true. Now, whether you are a supporter of Trump, you do share their mindset.
Are you rhe same Richard Pearce who said that the reports of 15,000 dead children were nothing more then ant Assad propaganda?
Of course they are not just propaganda, they are the direct result of attempted US regime change and Saudi financed terrorism aimed at toppling Syria’s legitimate and much to the US’s dismay popular and secular government.
Ah yes of course. Assad doesn’t need to run unopposed its just that he is so popular no one thinks it is necessary. And when he does run against others it legitimate opposition candidates not flacks picked by the Baathist party.
And that has to do how with your dead children diatribe?
I suppose you prefer them to become sex slaves or suicide bombers as the “opposition” is doing to them
CS is a zionist Jew;No way he’s for Trump.
The propagandists are all pro Hillaryous.
Agree. Talk about “exposing their own political bias… “
Craig isn’t Jewish. Just deeply Zionist. Many ardent Zionists are pro-Trump because, in Trump’s own words, he made the GOP platform: “The most pro-Israel ever!”
You, however, are a known antisemite who supports Trump for the reasons all racists and antisemites would. You see Trump as your best hope, certainly for “dealing with” the darker skinned people.
Craig has said he’s voting for Trump.
Circular references are a propaganda tool.
the intercept interviews a member of Syrian Civil Defense that states that they are intentionally targeted by Russia and Syrian government. To back up that statement there is a reference to an article in npr.org that has as a source the Syrian Civil Defense!!
Single source information disguised as a multiple source.. this is not journalism. This is intentional misleading the readers or gross incompetence.
Just watched an excellent Liberty Report episode in which the White Helmets were brought up, and journalist Vanessa Beeley offers a very different take on the group and examines their sources of funding and terrorists links. I tend to believe her over Mr. Hussain, who seems here to be parroting the mainstream media on his views of the WH, something that is usually below the Intercept. I’d highly suggest watching his show and learning about the WH from someone who has spent time on the ground in Syria:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mA0h7dCKI
http://www.globalresearch.ca/video-syria-white-helmets-exposed-nobel-peace-prize-for-al-qaeda/5522628
You’re right: don’t believe the author of this article, it is propaganda. Watch the above video and article about the White helmets on Global Research’s website. The ‘White helmets’ are actually aligned with al Nusra and al Qaeda. A British Army officer helped set them up–and they only work in the rebel held areas. The ‘White helmets’ are a false propaganda front for the US and UK administrations, their aim is to propagandize and push for direct US involvement in the Syrian war, and of course to demonize the Syrian government. The US is on the record giving 23 million in aid to the White helmets–how can they be neutral or impartial? They’re not. Giving these White helmets the nobel peace prize is as undeserving and propagandistic as giving it to Obama was.
You just beat me to it, but the message can not be harmed by repetition. Here’s a link to the UN Peace Council Representatives press briefing given on their return from a trip to Syria to assess the situation on the ground:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm6LmcdrIlc
Disappointing to see the intercept print such rubbish. The aid convoy was not subject to a missile attack from the air as there are no craters in the ground. The terrorists in east Aleppo had refused to allow safe passage of any aid and threatened to attack any aid sent in. They are using the civilians as a human shield and deliberately ensuring they suffer. They can then point to Assad as the culprit and demand a no fly zone and regime change which is what all those interfering in Syria want. This exposes the white helmets as the mercenaries and propaganda weapon they are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k6hSS6xBTw
Thanks to Obama setting the precedent (Libya) that congressional approval is now irrelevant for significant military action – which is actually blatantly unconstitutional (but hey, what isn’t nowadays?), Hillary Clinton will probably be able to do what she wants with Syria. And on the day she risks all-out war with Russia, Craig Summers and Murtaza Hussain can feast on joy while the rest of the world gets very, very quiet.
Actually, it was Bill Clinton that first set the precedent. He attacked Serbia in 1999 without Congressional authorization, and also without UN Security Council approval. Totally illegal and unconstitutional. Had the Republicans not already failed to impeach him over a blowjob, they should’ve tossed him out of office for that.
A big thank you for Vivek Jain’s hard work in the first part of this thread.
This shows and proves how much MSM is hiding from people.
(hey, thanks, and you’re quite welcome.)
The Nature and Mission of U.S. Corporate Mass Media
http://www.paulstreet.org/?p=1623
This is one of the best read about Mass Media!
So true, especially about ‘Manufacturing Idiocy’.
While the article focuses on the ‘US’, it is true for most (all?) countries under the Five Eyes areas of influence.
This broken record (aka craigsummers) offers no logic no quotes no links and nothing real.
Nothing but lies and bullshit.
You could smell the stink of his writing in all parts of the planet, wherever there is Murdoch’s press.
Defending the endless crimes committed day-in day-out by the US is a dead-end logic and blatant hypocrisy.
Enough of this craigsummers and his likes on this planet!
Peddlers of conflicts and wars should be confined to jails.
And before he activates his broken record part II:
It doesn’t matter one jot whether I see Assad as a model for integrity or not.
It is none of craigsummers’ and his handlers’ business.
And:
It doesn’t matter one jot whether I am a Russian agent or not.
It is none of craigsummers’ and his handlers’ business.
Four years ago Joseph Massad wrote a still timely Al Jazeera piece on Syria, my emphasis:
These are the sorts of points I’d need to see fully addressed by any supporters of intervention in Syria. Offensive prattle about opposing intervention being “pro-Assad” & etc is, to understate, an unacceptable substitute for such necessary, substantive argumentation.
The US is never going to invade in Syria That’s ridiculous. First of all, the US IS already intervening bombing ISIS and al-Qaeda – two of the most successful militias fighting the Assad regime. The US government supports regime change in Syria while ensuring there will be none. Second of all, this is certainly strengthening the Assad regime and emboldening them along with the Russians to continue to fight. While the rebels and other militias are being battered and losing ground, there is no incentive for Assad to come to the table. US weakness in Syria (i.e., failure to bomb Assad after their use of chemical weapons and when they break the cease fire) could actually be extending the war. If finding a peaceful political solution is the goal of the US, then they have gone about it in the wrong way. Assad and Putin are taking advantage to bomb the fuck out of civilians in an effort to retake Aleppo etc.
It was the jihadists who used chemical weapons in Syria–a classic false-flag.
The US is not going to invade Syria.
1) 400,000 deaths
2) 4.8 million Syrian refugees have left Syria
3) Chemical weapons have been used
You wish it was the US or Israel that are responsible for Syria misery. Trump does not want the refugees, Johnson does not know what Aleppo is, Stein running mate supports Assad. What does Clinton think about Syrian refugees?
Don’t be shy. Say it loudly:
“Since Israel and the US are not responsible for that carnage, then I do not care.”
Now, call me a Zionist, do not offer any solutions and continue to work harder to make US and Israel responsible for Syria civil war while pretending that you somehow care about Muslims getting killed in Gaza.
Assad is responsible for the carnage. So are the governments , including the US, which armed the rebels. It was utterly predictable that jihadis would dominate the armed opposition and that the Syrian regime would use these fanatics as an excuse for its own brutality, yet interventionists pretend not to understand this.
I think they do understand it. For interventionists there is no down side. Either they win and Assad is toppled and Iran loses an ally, or there is a civil war which weakens Assad and Iran and the deaths can be used for propaganda.
Extremists started this conflict from the start. There were no protestors with olive branches who turned to arms and called themselves the Free Syrian Army. That is a fairytale knocked out of a psy-ops office.
From the beginning government workers were being killed by these extremists. The same happened in Libya.
Mani’s a troll, and I seldom reply to him. He’s very dumb.
From The Guardian story on the leaked Killer Kerry audio:
Priceless. Shameful and disgusting, but priceless.
What does international law say about the annexation of the Crimea Peninsula – or the civil war supported by the Russian military in eastern Ukraine? Or were the Russians invited in by the Ukraine government? Regardless, that does not absolve you of your apparent support for the Russian and Syrian bombing of civilians – or attempting to blame this on the US. You are still a sellout to the victims of Russian and regime bombings.
International law says people have the right to self-determination. And if Kosovo can be occupied by military forces and can declare independence through legislative action, so can Crimea and/or Novorossiya.
That is a good point, Orville. Putin is certainly doing his best to grant self-determination to eastern Ukrainians, South Ossetians and Abkhazians. I would be more convinced of Russia’s “good” intentions if they allowed a referendum by Chechens to possibly realize their self-determination. Instead Russia killed tens of thousands of Chechens to prevent their independence. Hmmmm – sounds a little political to me.
Thanks.
The Russians were invited by the Crimean Autonomous Republic.
John Kerry said this with a straight face:
Just choose from this slew of articles at my google search result. It would be funny if the reality was not obscene.
DocHollywood
“……“The US also had a (real) interest in bombing the fuck out of Assad, but turned that down.”…..”– craigsummers
“……“The US also had a golden opportunity to bomb Syria into the stone age.”…..”– craigsummers
“…….“The US passed up a golden opportunity to bomb Syria in favor of removing the chemical weapons.”…..”– craigsummers
“………“The US even turned down a golden opportunity to bomb Assad and really set the regime back militarily. . .”……”– craigsummers
“……..“The US turned down a golden opportunity to bomb the fuck out of the Assad regime.”……”– craigsummers
“……..“In my opinion, the US made a mistake by bombing ISIS in Syria since they are the best military fighting Assad”……” – craigsummers
I hope you keep posting what I said because I am not alone in calling Obama’s deal with Assad to remove his chemical weapons one of the worst of his administration. He should have bombed the fuck out of him. The lack of a credible military threat in Syria by the US military has only emboldened Assad and Putin who continue to kill Syrian civilians in boatloads. According to the New York Times (“Audio Reveals What John Kerry Told Syrians Behind Closed Doors”; September 30, 2016):
“……Over and over again, he complained to a small group of Syrian civilians that his diplomacy had not been backed by a serious threat of military force, according to an audio recording of the meeting obtained by The New York Times…….Mr. Kerry has been hamstrung by Russia’s military operations in Syria and by his inability to persuade Washington to intervene more forcefully……..His frustrations and dissent within the Obama administration have hardly been a secret……“I think you’re looking at three people, four people in the administration who have all argued for use of force, and I lost the argument.”…….”
New York Times (“51 U.S. Diplomats Urge Strikes Against Assad in Syria”; June 16,2016):
“…….More than 50 State Department diplomats have signed an internal memo sharply critical of the Obama administration’s policy in Syria, urging the United States to carry out military strikes against the government of President Bashar al-Assad to stop its persistent violations of a cease-fire in the country’s five-year-old civil war……”
By the way Mona, this has nothing to do with Israel.
Thanks Doc!
Doug Salzmann
“……This is barely different from being accused of being a “Soviet sympathizer” or a “fellow traveler” for opposing American aggression in SEA in the 60s and 70s…… God, you’re pathetic, Craig……”
The article by Mr. Hussain mainly covers the recent brutal bombings by Russia and the Syrian regime which include hospitals, clinics and aid trucks meant to relieve the civilian population in Aleppo. The White Helmets help the civilians who are under tremendous duress. There is nothing to argue with. You are wrong – and a complete sellout to Russian and Syrian interests.
You have proven yourself to be an extreme anti-American that totally disregards the hundreds of civilians including dozens of children killed and maimed by Russian and Syrian regime bombings that was correctly pointed out in this article. Russian bombers have killed thousands of civilians in Syria. Effectively. you are condoning the war crimes committed by Russian and regime bombers using the US as a scapegoat – a classic case of whataboutery. Interestingly enough, you used the same argument in Ukraine despite additional Russian aggression. Is it really so out of line to accuse you of being a Russian sympathizer and/or a Russian-bot when you disregard any Russian responsibility?
Indeed, the charge of being a Russian-bot is not without some merit (Guardian, May 4, 2014):
“…….Trolling covers a multitude of sins but a particularly nasty strain has emerged in the midst of the armed conflict in Ukraine, which infests comment threads on the Guardian and elsewhere, despite the best efforts of moderators. Readers and reporters alike are concerned that these are from those paid to troll, and to denigrate in abusive terms anyone criticising Russia or President Vladimir Putin……”
I can attest to that as I spent a considerable amount of time below the line on articles concerning Russian aggression in Ukraine. In addition, according to the New York Times (August 28, 2016):
“…….In Crimea, eastern Ukraine and now Syria, Mr. Putin has flaunted a modernized and more muscular military. But he lacks the economic strength and overall might to openly confront NATO, the European Union or the United States. Instead, he has invested heavily in a program of “weaponized” information, using a variety of means to sow doubt and division. The goal is to weaken cohesion among member states, stir discord in their domestic politics and blunt opposition to Russia……”
You really don’t have a leg to stand on Doug.
Thanks.
God, you’re pathetic, Craig.
But you could be in the running for the Luke Harding Prize for Mindless and Fact-Free Russophobia.
Thanks comrade…….
He’s vile. He’s pro-torture, and will not defend the 4th Amendment. Craig is the most toxic sort of nationalist, where any country, entity or group considered to be our “enemy” is villainous and must be opposed, preferably with bombs — and torturing them is fine as well. To disagree is to be “anti-American.” He doesn’t merit respectful interaction.
Ignoring him really is the only way to handle him, or he posts ever more of the lengthy bilge above us. I strongly encourage you and all to join me in mostly ignoring Craig.
Oh, I do usually ignore him. I simply find the idiotic Russophobia worthy of a scathing comment now and again.
But you’re right; it just sets him off.
“……To disagree is to be “anti-American.” He doesn’t merit respectful interaction…….”
Considering you are a classic anti-Jewish bigot, you really have nothing to stand on Mona. When you are so blatantly pro Assad and pro Russian bombing of hospitals, clinics and aid convoys while blaming everything on the US, then you are either anti-American or a Russian-bot. It really is simple deduction. You simply fall far short of anything approaching a humanitarian.
Thanks Mona.
To an American being a “humanitarian” means only killing the people standing in the way of US corporate interests.
Correct. Clearly Apple is behind the US policy to arm the rebels.
No, they kill Chinese production workers.
Or more to the point drive them to suicide.
Does tue FBI pay you well Craig, or are you really as ignorant as you appear?
To CS America is just a tool.He hates US deplorables.
So disappointed theintercept. Shame on you.
craigsummers v craigsummers
craigsummers demonstrating the sincerity his own humanitarian concerns; a verbatim sampling:
“The US also had a (real) interest in bombing the fuck out of Assad, but turned that down.”
– craigsummers
“The US also had a golden opportunity to bomb Syria into the stone age.”
– craigsummers
“The US passed up a golden opportunity to bomb Syria in favor of removing the chemical weapons.”
– craigsummers
“The US even turned down a golden opportunity to bomb Assad and really set the regime back militarily. . .”
– craigsummers
“The US turned down a golden opportunity to bomb the fuck out of the Assad regime.”
– craigsummers
“In my opinion, the US made a mistake by bombing ISIS in Syria since they are the best military fighting Assad”
– craigsummers
Oh he wrote that, did he? That means he got the memo sent out to all hardcore Israel apologists, to wit: ISIS is good for Israel. Zionist military “analysts” and apologists are arguing all over the place that ISIS must not be defeated in Syria.
This is but one example from June:
Wow. The humanitarianism — it takes the breath away, don’t it?
This comment section well illustrates why I’m so reluctant to entertain notions of military intervention in Syria. To a very great degree, the arguments I’ve seen in favor of doing so almost exactly parallel those made by neoconservatives and Bushbots vis-a-vis Iraq. Indeed, as seen below, our resident authoritarian, pro-torture Republican, Craig Summers, is a huge fan of the above article and intervention in Syria.
Moreover, the same author, Maz Hussain, recently wrote a piece interviewing the leader of an Al Qaeda in Syria group, one who claims he and his comrades are no longer AQ. Now, if I’d seen such a piece in, say, The Weekly Standard, I’d be utterly disdainful and so would virtually everyone else here, including I’d bet Maz himself.
Yet I’m supposed to take seriously that an entire AQ group has changed its mind and isn’t AQ any more, because it appeared here? Are we supposed to conclude that to support it against Assad would not be to support AQ?
The vile things leftists who support intervention in Syria spew about those who are explicitly opposed (I’m not, I’m still uncommitted) do not make me think any better of their arguments. They sound just like neocon assholes c. 2003, accusing opponents of the Iraq invasion of “loving Saddam,” of “betraying the Iraqi people.”
So, any who want to make an argument for military intervention in Syria, I suggest they do so without the rancid name-calling, and come forward with persuasive, substantive reasons why this intervention is merited and will effect better results than not intervening. Why it wouldn’t be a debacle like Iraq. I’ll tune out any more outrageous bullshit directed at those on the left who disagree with intervening.
The problem I have is that with rare exceptions almost everything I read on Syria is blatant propaganda for one side or the other. As best I can tell both the government and the ” moderate” rebels who fight alongside Al Qaeda are repugnant. I understand Syrians bombed by Assad siding with the rebels and I also understand Syrians terrified by the possibility of a jihadist victory. What I don’t understand are so- called journalists who throw their critical faculties out the window and line up with one set of propagandists.
Of course in the case of the mainstream press and this particular piece, the political line is to downplay the fact that the rebels are basically jihadis. But I have seen a few dissident writers who are abject Assad apologists. There is no need to take that position in order to oppose US support for the rebels– simple common sense should be enough.
Really? Anyone of note? I’ve not run into one person, much less a writer, who could fairly be described as an Assad apologist. And on Twitter I follow a ton of Muslims: U.S., Canadian and “over there.” Nor do I know of any peace activists who are pro-Assad.
It’s probably more people who I see in comment sections, but anyone who talks about Assad winning elections is being ridiculous– what sort of election could really reflect the will of the people when the Syrian government tortures or murders dissidents. This is not to say that the jihadis have ” the people” on their side. In fact, that reminds me– anyone who speaks in broad generalities of the ” Syrian people” as though they were a monolith on one side or the other is a propagandist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEn6iNzJKik
At 14:30 another view of the White Helmets?
Exactly. The truth is not as cut and dry and the author of this piece makes it.
Still supporting those wascally Wahhabis, I see. Fucking disgusting.
The White Hats are al Nusra, who are just al Qaeda by another name.
Are we now buddies of terrorists just because the US says we have to hate Russia?
So it would seem.
And by backing them, the government and its officials are guilty of providing material support to terrorists, which is punishable with imprisonment for up to 15 years of no death results, and up to life if death results.
Perhaps someone should build some executive and legislative wings at FMC Carswell and ADMAX Florence to plan for the needs of future inmates.
You are publicizing a propaganda front for a US/British “regime change” operation headed by James LeMesurier,British Intel operative,leftBritish army in 2000,intel for Nato in Bosnia, VP “private mercenary”group Olive Group. White Helments coordinate with Syrian terrorists groups and have been videotaped disposing of bodies of their victims.. Many of the group’s members are doing good work, but the main purpose is to assist the operation to bring down the Syrian government .see http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/10/23/syrias-white-helmets-war-by-way-of-deception-part-1/
I just saw a report from an independent journalist covering the Syrian war who says the ‘White Helmets’ are – in fact – terrorists, and NOT the big ‘saviors’ this report claims.
You know what I admire about Russians? How well they speak and write in English…..
Oh, look, everyone! It’s the “Putinbot” meme.
Craig, you need to head over to the Graun, right away. Your spiritual family of Russophobes is waiting.
Mr. Hussain
The Intercept has taken a cowardly approach to the Syrian conflict focusing on reporting on such important stories as Chris Kyle while a humanitarian disaster in Syria unfolded because of the Assad regime. As documented by the White Helmets, Russia and the Syrian regime have committed numerous war crimes over the duration of the conflict but this was rarely (if ever) reported by the Intercept.
You are way late, Mr. Hussain, but better late than never when it comes to the truth. I doubt this is a new trend however. The Intercept will still publish important articles about US sanctions on the Syrian regime (“U.S. AND EU SANCTIONS ARE PUNISHING ORDINARY SYRIANS AND CRIPPLING AID WORK, U.N. REPORT REVEALS”) while Russia and the Assad regime bomb the fuck out of Aleppo killing hundreds of civilians. The one child pictured in this story will soon be forgotten and the faux humanitarian concerns of the radical left will again be focused only on Gaza.
I see. So random beheadings, sexual slavery of children and women and the murder of non Sunni are more your speed.
Got it, thanks for sharing that cocern troll ofnyours.
How is The Intercept allowing this magnificent piece of crap of so called article on this page AT ALL… its not only biased but also flat out WRONG.
You called this journalism?
Watch and learn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mA0h7dCKI&feature=share
EXCUSE ME!!
What the actual hell is this piece of crap doing on The Intercept?
WhiteHelmts are heros? What a huge pile of steaming horse shit!!
Fire this guy immidiately if you still wish to have ANY credibility!!
from June:
Saudi Arabia and Turkey’s pipeline wars in Yemen and Syria
http://atimes.com/2016/06/saudi-arabia-and-turkeys-pipeline-wars-in-yemen-and-syria/
Murtaza needs to do some research before writing.
He could start with an expose from 1.5 years ago
http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/04/seven-steps-of-highly-effective-manipulators/
then he could look at 10 facts about the hoax helmets which are part of this petition.
https://www.change.org/p/ole-von-uexkull-retract-the-award-given-to-the-nato-white-helmets
PLEASE READ, SIGN AND BROADCAST THIS PETITION!
I have little to say that hasn’t been said below, but I feel compelled to be on record.
Maz, this is vile and dishonest propaganda for terrorist collaborators and frontmen — and worse, terrorists themselves — funded and guided by the US and Western allies.
Your piece above the line is just the sort of bullshit that is regularly proffered by the dutiful and compliant stenographers of the MSM, in service to the US/Western regime-changers who have taken advantage of unrest in Syria to blast the country to pieces, creating a holocaust for the people, littering the land with hundreds of thousands of bodies and body parts and driving more than four million into exile.
Doug
You are such a sellout to human rights and suffering (clearly at the hands of the regime). Your response to this article is so deeply anti-American, you easily could be a Russian-bot. I am fairly sure photosymbiosis is, but I am just getting around to reading some of your bullshit. I can certainly see why you are a lap dog to Mona.
This is barely different from being accused of being a “Soviet sympathizer” or a “fellow traveler” for opposing American aggression in SEA in the 60s and 70s. Except, of course, that the people still slinging this nonsense around today have even less excuse for their mean-spirited stupidity than the Dull Patriots of the Past — cuz, unlike the cretins screaming at us, then, to “love it or leave it,” youse guys have a fucking Internet available to alleviate your ignorance.
God, you’re pathetic, Craig.
‘‘ How the Pentagon sank the US-Russia deal in Syria ’’
‘‘ Was the first ever US strike against Syrian government forces an intentional hit by the Pentagon to block military cooperation with Russia? asks Gareth Porter ’’
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/17413/19/How-the-Pentagon-sank-the-US-Russia-deal-in-Syria.aspx
@karma who replied to GilG’s nasty claim that MintPressNews is financed by Syria
Gil is a hardocre Israel apologist who is frequently wrong in his fact claims and contortions of logic. But that’s pretty vile, even for Gil
Muhawesh published this op-ed in The Minneapolis Star Tribune in response to a formerly anti-war writer there, Terry Burke, who claimed MintPRess was pro-Assad, my emphasis:
Whether she’s entirely right in her position on Syria I do not know, but I do know the bad faith, ad hominem attacks on her, and people with her view, are just that.
AttaGirl<3
@Karma who Mona addressed in the post above. Mona as you can see from her other posts is against characterizations and vicious attacks on people, calls out others who do this and would never do it herself because she is an upstanding person not a lying hypocrite. She would never for instance give only one side of the story on an issue she admittedly knows nothing about so you can rest assured that the attack on Ms. Burke that she posted above accurate and she read the article by Ms. Burke that her post attacks and found it unreliable. You can rest assured that she did this out of her compassion for the Syrian people and not at all as an attempt to attack me personally. Mona is just that kind of person she selflessly spends her days on TI in order to help her close personal fiend Glenn Greenwald. She would never mention this relationship herself and most likely embarrassed that I am mentioning it now. Glenn helps her in keeping this a secret because he so appreciates the service she provides to TI. Mona’s posts on TI has nothing to do with politics and she posts only to make the world a better place. She has not taken a stance in the Syria situation because she is studying it and it is important to her to take a nuanced view not one based on others beliefs and it is only a coincidence that Glenn Greenwald has also not taken a public stance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw General Wesley Clark in a DemocracyNow interview. Before the “Syrian civil war” Regime change as long been in the making. 7 countries in 5 years.
Okay I admit I was fooled in the run-up to the US invasion of Iraq. We are saving the poor Iraqis from a ruthless dictator. Blah blah blah. The same template was trotted out regarding Gaddafi in Libya. Now both countries lie in ruins. We are now expected to fall for the same story again regarding Assad in this latest piece which might as well be a State Department press release. I’ll give credit where credit is due though. Regime-change psywar is getting more and more sophisticated . Gullible liberals and even lefties are being taken in by it. Expected better from The Intercept and have lost respect. I learned a long time ago as a foot soldier in another Imperial nightmare called the War in Vietnam the validity of the great quote by Aeschylus, “In war truth is the first casualty”.
A newspaper or a blog (so called news) is only as good as the owner.
Glenn I can’t understand what you are doing there. You might catch up to the abysmal New York Times. Or the Huffington Post.
Help people and stop writing for this web page, please. This was on of the rare pages that you can read something that was not payed by the some government or organization. Please “TI” stop publishing this kind of articles.
The Intercept does not have “a” position on Syria
Multiple comments below make accusations to the effect that vis-a-vis the above piece by Maz Hussain this site is no better than the establishment media, it’s controlled by Pierre Omidyar, it’s neoliberal & etc.
Maz Hussain is one writer here who has a very particular and strong view on Syria. Other writers, e.g., Rhani Khalek, take quite opposing views. Syria is causing a relatively big schism on the left, and that’s reflected at this site.
That all said, I hope The Intercept aggressively pursues stories by Rania or others presenting alternative information and positions on Syria.
If you’re not comfortable labeling an article as “propaganda” then surely you can at least label it as “opinion”.
I didn’t express a view on labels. My objection was to characterizations of The Intercept as a whole based on one writer who has written several pieces with a position on Syria that many disagree with.
Syria, and the 2016 election, have brought out some sharp contrasts among the staff here. Maz Hussain has a position on Syria not shared by most of the commenters and some other writers here. Bob Mackey has gone tabloid-ish on Trump. But both Maz and Mackey are also capable of some superb pieces, and one can only hope that after the election at least Mackey reverts to more palatable form.
As for Syria, they do need some other viewpoints.
Hi Mona
I haven’t seen any writer at TI take an opposing view on Syria… as in pro-Assad opinion pieces that repeat lies and ignore the context. The work of Rhania Khalek does not fit that description at all, though I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way..
I share your hopes for TI in coverage of Syria, but I would argue that the “big schism on the left” is a manufactured one that is the result of massive misinformation about the facts, not one of differing conclusions based on the history or policies going forward after a thorough and honest debate. But then, maybe you are counting the neoliberal warmongers running our government and media as part of the left… I do not.
I would also note that a large percentage of those engaging in the misinformation campaign are the same people you spend so much time countering and correcting here… and that their goals and tactics are equally despicable and equally deserving of such countering and correcting.
The motivation for the articles we’ve been getting from Maz hasn’t been shared, but there’s certainly no shortage of comparable opinion pieces that push the same distortions of fact and reality in the establishment media… and I seem to recall some claim about TI existing to fill a void on issues, not to pile on the mountainous heap.
If you are eager to learn more, there are some good links below… the background summary from consortiumnews is thorough, and the excerpt from Robert Naimans book on the Wikileaks cables is “right from the horses mouth” convincing. Both are quick reads.
No, not anything she’s published here. But she’s among those whom Maz Hussain, Charles Davis and assorted others have viciously attacked on Twitter for her positions taken there and elsewhere, her and Max Blumenthal, Ali Abunimah, Ben Norton and “the left” in general.
My own view is that Syria is a very complicated and morally unclear crisis. My primary objection is to assuming bad faith on the part of comrades for not taking what one considers the “correct” position. It’s possible that the ultimately right position happens to coincide with NATO’s war interests — I don’t know.
But the vicious characterizations have to stop. Like claiming this or that leftist is “pro-Assad” or “doesn’t give a shit about the suffering of Syrians.” That’s straight out of the Bush/neocon playbook c. 2003 re: Saddam and the people of Iraq.
“…….But the vicious characterizations have to stop. Like claiming this or that leftist is “pro-Assad” or “doesn’t give a shit about the suffering of Syrians.” That’s straight out of the Bush/neocon playbook c. 2003 re: Saddam and the people of Iraq…….”
The truth is so painful, isn’t it Mona?
At the wishes of multiple other readers, I rarely reply to the authoritarian, pro-torture, Trump-voting Craig Summers. Doing so causes him to post endless walls of massive drivel. That prudence on my part shall continue.
“My own view is that Syria is a very complicated and morally unclear crisis. My primary objection is to assuming bad faith on the part of comrades for not taking what one considers the “correct” position. It’s possible that the ultimately right position happens to coincide with NATO’s war interests — I don’t know”
Two questions-
Do you believe Syria was a “crisis” before foreign militants started killing Syrian police and military forces in order to trigger a response from Assad?
In the part of your comment I quoted, if you changed “Syria” to “Israel/Palestine” and “NATO” to “Israel”, how would you view someone who used those words?
As someone with whom I generally agree, I am trying to understand why you are on the fence, and why you saying you may yet come down on the… er… um… other side.
OK. One more question.
Did you have a chance to read the short excerpt from Naimans Wikileaks cables book?
Thanks.
What an astounding piece of propaganda! The Syrian civil war was created by the West. Jihadists were armed with weapons from the rat-line in Libya. The only reason media rags like the Intercept are now fretting over the violence is because Syria is winning — defending its own sovereignty.
If Obama and the West want peace in Syria — they simply have to withdraw their jihadist fighters and stop violating Syrian airspace. What is happening now is a war crime — huge nations using radical jihadists to overthrow regimes they don’t like … all for pipelines.
Unlike America’s illegal war crimes in Syria, Russia was invited into Syria by their legal government. But of course the owner of the intercept, Pierre Omidyar doesn’t want you to know that. Here is a more logical article on Syria, without the fake Omidyarian propaganda:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/15/assads-death-warrant/
Genocide is nothing new to the American government that is owned by corpo rats, wallstreet thieves, and other insidious players engaged in the genocide of Palestinians. But it is all part of their grand scheme they are being rewarded to pursue.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
(1) “The Syrian civil war was CREATED by the West”? (2) What does your allegation about pipelines — assuming for the sake of argument that it’s true — have to do with the intentional destruction of civilians and hospitals?
“What does your allegation about pipelines — assuming for the sake of argument that it’s true — have to do with the intentional destruction of civilians and hospitals?”
Well, it has everything to do with western objectives to completely destabilizing the entire countries (Syrian) infrastructure ala Afghansistan, Iraq & Libya. After this dismantling of anything that remotely remains of a viable, or coherent Syrian state, western elites and their GCC lackeys will rejoice in having Assad publicly dragged through the newly “independent” Al Qaeda controlled capital’s streets of rubble – to be ceremoniously beheaded on YouTube for all the western imperialists to praise & gloat over.
Then comes phase 2: the complete western corporate/military “intervention” – beginning with the ceremonious signing of large, long term contracts for pilelines, unfettered resource and military interests..etc, – with the newly installed Jihadist “coalition” provision authority – which will then most happily resume their mass slaughter and enslavement of whatever remains of the civillain Syrian population, but htis time with nary a whisper of protest or indignation from the current R2P crowd and their enablers.
It’s just Middle Eastern Business (western imperial style) par excellence!
Assuming it’s true — on the basis of facts routinely asserted but never provided — that “western objectives” are to destabilize the countries in the region in furtherance of “western imperial[ism],” how do those objectives legitimize the targeting of civilians and hospitals? According to you (and Mr. Salzmann), they do because Washington is alleged to have started the civil war there. Leaving aside the missing logic of the government in Damascus wanting to bomb its own civilians (and their schools and hospitals) in Aleppo, what legal principle supports your proposition?
(1) Yes, Western forces took advantage of the “Arab Spring” and protests in Syria that Assad’s forces put down harshly to foment an uprising that they hoped would quickly result in the regime change they had wanted for some time.
(2) Oil and pipelines and associated resources and infrastructure are the underlying interest that has led the West to intervene in and interfere with matters in the Arab world since the end of WWI. The interference and intervention have repeatedly resulted in real-life horror shows for innocent civilians. Read this, all of it:
Taking advantage of and creating are different things, just as hoping for regime change isn’t the same as bringing it about. Assad did just fine on his own in stoking the murderous fratricide we’re seeing. And even if someone provided facts (vs. suppositions and innuendos) that US policy in Syria is aimed at controlling the country’s oil, what would they have to do with — let alone justify — Russian and Syrian bombing of civilians and hospitals?
Oh, well, just this once, for shits and grins:
Yes they are, and the West took advantage of the Arab Spring and drought/urban migration/economic distress protests and Assad’s typically harsh response to create the reality of a Syrian civil war.
Right again, but you’d have to be unusually dense and ignorant of recent history to argue that the US and its allies have merely been hoping for regime change in Syria. Do you ever read the news?
Whatever Assad has done, it has certainly not been “on his own.” Again, familiarizing yourself with news, recent history and current events would probably improve the quality of your comments and, thus, your credibility.
Syria doesn’t have enough oil for the big boys to worry about controlling. It accounts for, maybe, half of one percent of world oil exports. On the other hand, which of two pipelines through its territory Syria chooses to support is a very big deal for the Masters of the Universe and Syria chose the one the Masters didn’t like. You can look it up (doing your own research is character-building). Hint: Google “pipelineistan” and “Escobar.”
When you start wars, that act (starting wars) has everything to do with the horrors of war that follow. That’s why “[p]lanning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances” is a crime (a “crime against peace”) under international law. See Principle VI of the Nuremberg Principles.
As for “justification,” after you catch up on news, current events and modern history, review the basics of logical fallacies. You can start with the informal fallacy known as the “straw man.”
Just noticed that Vivek posted a reference to the Escobar piece earlier.
Washington created (started) the civil war in Syria on account of a pipeline decision. Washington, therefore, is responsible for “the horrors of war that follow” including, near as I can tell, the targeting decisions of Moscow and Damascus. Do I have that right? If so, could you cite the legal principle that immunizes a war’s non-starting party against liability for its targeting of civilians and hospitals?
Apologies, but I have no idea what that means. What’s an “informal fallacy”? But assuming it’s something important — it certainly sounds weighty — how does it relate to the question at hand: What legal principle absolves Moscow and Damascus from liability for targeting civilians and hospitals in a civil war that you said was caused by Washington?
What the heck is going on here. I thought State Department press releases had to show their logo.
haha , I thought that too. I certainly did not expect such an article here..
This article is one big helmet wash.
You want the actual story about Syria, see reporter Jurgen Todenhofer’s interview with an Al Qaeda commander. In particular, consider what he says about Ahrar Al-Sham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K6zqSTSp6g
Hussain has been promoting Ahrar Al-Sham as one of the State Departments “moderate rebels” at the Intercept.
Compare that reality to this puff-piece on Intercept editor Betsy Reed, who is apparently signing off on this garbage-flavored reporting:
It seems the press is in cahoots with the very government it’s supposed to be checking. But not The Intercept. (Reader.us), March 2016 betsy-reed-the-editor-putting-big-business-and-government-under-the-microscope/
Conclusion: the billionaire-owned Internet media sucks just as much as the Wall Street-owned corporate media does, and in many cases, can be worse, with even lower journalistic standards.
If what this woman says is correct, how can we ever trust the Mainstream Media again?
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2016/09/29/why-everything-you-hear-about-aleppo-is-wrong/
“It seems the press is in cahoots with the very government it’s supposed to be checking. But not The Intercept. ” – Betsy Reed
Right. We’re not going to SEEM to be in cahoots with the government.
She’s floated turd after turd. These two beauties were book reviews published shortly after she was “hired”.
Former NSA lawyer claiming what the NSA does is not illegal. (he should know, right?)
The expert warrior claiming Abu Grab was “a few bad apples”. (again, he would know, right?)
That set the tone and she’s been in harmony every since.
What the hell does Betsy Reed have to do with a former NSA lawyer or an “expert warrior?” And she didn’t use the word “seem” the way you dishonestly reword it. That totally changes her meaning.
Before she came to The Intercept, Reed was executive editor at The Nation, where she did a great job. Glenn thinks extremely highly of Reed and often credits her for the way she’s turned things around after John Cook and First Look parted ways.
Say, didn’t Obama recently refuse to apologize for the United States nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki? This seems kind of small potatoes compared nuking two cities.
I mean, they don’t even admit it was wrong and they are yelling about war crimes?
Weird.
Congratulations on a beautiful propaganda piece! You could show the staged photo of that little boy in the dust too, that would make it even more appealing.
Maz,
It seems your commentators only want to hear the pro-Russian story. It seems that everything surrounding the lives of millions of human beings must be reduced to a political duopoly. If you’re not for Assad, you must be for the jihadists and the US interventionists.
For me, I remember a time when the Syrian people were suffering from a 10-year drought, a flailing economy, and were tired of the Assad dynasty. They took to the streets begging for democracy. I remember Assad’s response…
I wish the interests of the people could be separated from the outside wolves tearing the people to shreds. Thanks for your article.
Let me preface this by saying I’m agnostic on what to do vis-a-vis Syria because I know too little, and what I do know is confusing.
More than anyone Maz has midwifed the dichotomy you describe. On Twitter he has been outrageously insulting to good people who oppose a No Fly Zone or intervention in Syria.
Moreover, it is hard for me to see his piece here as anything other than an assist in rebranding Al Qaeda.
Again, I don’t know what the answer(s) are for Syria (other than the absolute moral imperative of nations accepting the refugees), but I do know the ugly nature of Maz’s insults on Twitter and the thrust of that article I linked.
It is amazing ,that, a journalist presenting a different side of the brutal Syrian civil war, is immediately tarred as a “jihadi” or “Al-Qaeda sympathizer “. So called liberals ( at least the ones pilling on to Murtaza Hussain here in the comments section and on Twitter ) seem to be enamoured with the Assad regime, which has brutalized their own people .
Yes, that kind of disgusting slur is the sort of shit Maz has been hurling on Twitter. Very often, and like you, he usually won’t cite anyone specific.
I don’t know whether Maz’s overall position on Syria is right, or whether those who disagree have the better argument. (Except that I can see the great dangers inherent in imposing a No Fly Zone where Russian planes are.)
But I do know that offensive crap such as you just spewed is just that.
Please feel free to feel as offended as you want. Actual Syrians who have felt the horror of living under the Assad dictatorship are also offended….people like Maher Arar. You should ask Arar and others like him what they feel about Assad.
As it happens, I’ve long followed Arar on Twitter. He hasn’t tweeted any offensive rot such as you and Maz have spewed.
Moreover, I don’t need to ask anyone how they feel about Assad, and your implication that I would need to learn what a monster Assad is constitutes yet more of the same offensive bullshit that I utterly reject. Saddam Hussein was a monster as well — should we have invaded Iraq? You sound like the Bushbots and neocons c. 2003.
joe, this is not a “different side”. just google white helmets and you can read many many propaganda articles just like this fawning them in the msm written over the last week.
Here is video of the White Helmets helping rebels execute prisoners (at the 3:05 mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo
This video asked a lot of VERY compelling Questions. Great Job!
Thank you for this.
i guess james just made you look s***** mustafa… really really…
great link… the truth is coming out!
and mr murtaza… learn something… if you had before you wouldnt had write this article.
Hi Mustafa,
Thanks for reminding me what a straw man fallacy is, since you just made one.
So anyone who writes off white helmets drivel as Al Qaida propaganda, must want to hear the pro-Russian story. That is a clear misrepresentation of what commenters here are actually saying. Most are also not talking about duopoly, but you certainly do as you need it for your straw man argument.
But perhaps you can answer questions why the white helmets are not operational in west Aleppo, or why the intercept isn’t talking about East or West Aleppo or why the people from Syria started to leave their country in massive numbers after the US sponsored these so called moderate rebels. Asking those questions doesn’t mean that the person who asks these questions is “a wolve who tries to tear the people to shreds.” But of course, if you want to win your “argument” you suggest that they do, as this is part of the straw man fallacy.
Well Mustafa Howard if you are looking back, shame on the Western powers for ignoring a Russian proposal in 2012 to remove Assad. Instead the West chose violence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside
We don’t want to hear the pro-Russia story.. We would like you to integrate international law into your analysis. The The West had no right to sent thousands of Jihadist fighters into Syria! How dare you say that we are spouting Russian propaganda! We are simply aware of the Nuremberg Principles and that the whole Syria mess was created by a proxy invasion by the West. Syria was invaded by Jihadists long before Russia entered the war. Get your facts straight.
If you really want the violence to end, call on the West to withdraw its jihadist forces and to stop bombing Syria. They were not invited there. It is a fact Russia was — this is not Russian Propaganda but simple reality. Instead you enable the violence by peddling lies that the proxy invasion is just a civil war because Assad is so evil. The same idiotic argument was used to invade Iraq. You enable the violence — by being the useful idiot that only crows about the humanitarian crises when Western forces are getting crushed.
By hiding the fact that Syria was invaded by the West, using the worst of the worst, it is you, Mustafa, who are covering for war crimes and perpetuating death. The Nuremberg principles don’t state that you can invade a sovereign country with terrorists just because you have decided their leader is a bad guy. You are a disgrace to journalism, as you cover for terrorists and corporate plundering. I am sure the likes of you were there in Poland in 1939, complaining how the resistance fighters against Hitler were killing people. Go crawl back under a rock.
I call again on Ed Snowden to denounce the Intercept. It champions the lies and ideology that he fought against and has become a partisan, deep-state, McCarthyite rag.
“The group’s work has garnered international attention, including a Nobel Peace Prize nomination as well as the Netflix documentary, which is titled The White Helmets.”
I kept waiting for the punchline that never came. Were they competing with Obama, or maybe Netanyahu for that “peace” prize?
This article should be a joke, and in some way surely is, just not very funny joke.
I really don’t know what to think about the White Helmets. I have read that they are a camouflage group for imperialist U.S. policies. I think there is evidence that they are that. Certainly their funding appears to be largely from the U.S.
Are they only the humanitarian organization this article portrays? Don’t know. So much reporting is simply propaganda. No doubt various individuals are risking their lives to help others, but, how much of that is window dressing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo
you answer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mA0h7dCKI
Please read this for the truth about how clandestine the power brokers play…White helmets are a TERRORIST group proper up by , England, Us and russia..
I hoped for more from “The Intercept”…See ya…
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
Very disappointing to read this on the intercept. So this guy spends his time between Turkey and the US, when he is not “helping” in Syria, BULL SHIT.
This web site better understand it can’t feed readings this type of propaganda, there are many web sites now to compete with, if you are with the MSM you are dead.
NO matter how many times the MSM repeats a lie; 1+1=3. it always equals 2!
Thank you!
You would think that at some point the futility of TI hosting these propaganda pieces defending the Wahhabi Sunni militants seeking to impose a Saudi style theocracy on Syria using an estimated 160,000 foreign fighters would become apparent to those running this outlet. The informed readers here aren’t buying it, so why keep trying to sell it?
You would also think, that given the knowledge and professionalism of the majority of the journalists at TI, and the commitment to challenging the injustices of the establishment and their harmful policies and false claims that there would be an internal revolt against the promulgation of such propaganda pieces.
To see TI supporting the illegal US/Saudi/Qatari/Turkish regime change war using a proxy force made up of our declared enemies al Qaida and other “rebels” who are ideologically identical to al Qaida just 15 years after 9/11 is shameful.
The subject of the article isn’t the problem. Quoting those who lie about the facts of the war while refusing to correct those lies and ignoring and distorting the true context is not journalism. These aren’t issues which fall into the realm of Glenn Greenwald’s position on objectivity and advocacy journalism. It’s simply one sided nonsense.
The persistence in the effort to sell this garbage is good evidence that the Intercept cares jack about what well-informed readers think, and that points to the organization being run by Omidyar as a PR platform for his own interests.
If we look at the absolute refusal of the Intercept to cover economic agendas behind imperialist wars and actions, from the Dakota pipeline to the Syria pipeline to oil & uranium interests in Africa to the Petrobras angle in Brazil (which Greenwald doesn’t touch, even though he complains about Brazilian media being run by billionaire families while working for an American billionaire run-outlet), then I’d guess Omidyar has lots of money in global energy investments whose interests align with that of the Hillary Clinton foreign militarism agenda.
Journalistic integrity is clearly not on the Intercept’s agenda; what we have here is loads of PR.
Syria’s “White Helmets” Risk Everything to Save the Victims of Airstrikes
They are victims of US foreign policy.
Exactly– go to the source– follow the money
The propaganda machine works even at the intercept. It is more the shame.
Bit surprised, expecting objectivity but provided with terribly poor propaganda, what happened?
To find this article here at The Intercept of all places is shocking in the extreme.
The so-called “white helmets” are neither who nor what they claim to be. They have even misappropriated the name of the actual, existing Syria Civil Defense, who do the work that “white helmets” only claim to do as they assist the Nusra terrorists in their head-chopping activities. The only actual work they do is pushing terrorist propaganda in the West.
The truth is here:
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/23/exclusive-the-real-syria-civil-defence-expose-natos-white-helmets-as-terrorist-linked-imposters/
I wonder where the white helmets are if west Aleppo is bombed. Perhaps Murtaza Hussain knows this?
Orwell said (in Homage to Catalonia) that war crimes were only made possible by the propagandists who never saw war, but wrote about it passsionately in news outlets far far away to make a living.
Nothing changed really.
“Orwell said (in Homage to Catalonia) that war crimes were only made possible by the propagandists who never saw war, but wrote about it passsionately (sic) in news outlets far far away to make a living.”
And the same is true of comment section propagandists.
Bill,
You “forgot” to add in the first part of my comment.
But that of course goes without saying if you want to win your “argument” with an ad hominem fallacy.
Fellow Intercepters,
What to make of this?
http://www.mintpressnews.com/white-helmets-ngo-rescue-assist-operation-guise-human-rights/216324/
The Mint Press is fianced by the Syrian govt.
I don’t think from Minneapolis Mnar Muhawesh is Financed by Syrian govt. Let’s go ask her.
First – how do you know that Mint Press is financed by the Syrian govt?
Second – even if that is true, that doesn’t mean that the articles’ claims that The White Helmets was created and is run by the Blackwater mercenary corp is untrue. Both assertions may well be true. Modern war has largely turned into a war of propaganda, so it wouldn’t be surprising that both Mint Press and The White Helmets are propaganda organizations.
What is disappointing is that The Intercept cannot, it seems, be relied upon to be truthful and impartial. That makes me very sad.
THANK YOU!
Here’s another one, with overlapping information, draw your own conclusions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVVAmJ-NVN4
““Secret cables and reports by the U.S., Saudi and Israeli intelligence agencies indicate that the moment Assad rejected the Qatari pipeline, military and intelligence planners quickly arrived at the consensus that fomenting a Sunni uprising in Syria to overthrow the uncooperative Bashar Assad was a feasible path to achieving the shared objective of completing the Qatar/Turkey gas link. In 2009, according to WikiLeaks, soon after Bashar Assad rejected the Qatar pipeline, the CIA began funding opposition groups in Syria.”
— Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Why the Arabs don’t want us in Syria, Politico
from Pepe:
Syria: Ultimate Pipelineistan War
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/08/syria-ultimate-pipelineistan-war/
I just posted a snarky comment directing a poster to this, later in the thread. I didn’t notice you had already posted it.
Yes,economic reasons might have play here,but the reason the ME is in abject misery is because of Israel being in its midst.
There was no terrorism and absolutely no interest regarding the ME pre Zion,other than oil interests,who the potentates gladly sold freely.
Bottom line
And its MSM has a lock on every bit of info over the airwaves ,cable, print, web and even public TV and radio.
An outrageous assault on democracy and freedom.
And they hate Trump,and want no part of American sovereignty to release US from the grip of death.
And they will cheat,lie and demonize to achieve the installation of the absolutely most corrupt(Oh Bernie)pos bubblehead(he’s up at 3am!Holy shite,isn’t that one of her old campaign cries,that she would be ready at 3am?) deranged (all options are on the table)candidate in American history.
Its up to US,as the exceptionalists hate us deplorables.
US State Department PR drivel, that’s all this article is. The Intercept has sunk to new lows.
http://theduran.com/information-war-syria-white-helmets-hoax/
As noted before, the whole overthrow Assad game began after Syria rejected a US-Qatari-Turkey pipeline plan to bring oil & gas to the Mediterranean in favor of a Russia-Iran pipeline plan c. 2010. The U.S. bears direct responsiblity for the outbreak of civil war in Syria, the hundreds of thousands of casualites, and the millions of refugees. The architects of this policy, such as Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama, have bloodsoaked hands.
The reason the Intercept is publishing this PR drivel appears to be that its owner, Pierre Odimayar, is campaigning for Hillary Clinton and the truth about Syria would hurt her election chances; hence, the distortion of truth in the name of political expediency.
You hit the nail here.
Not a single sentence about who these rebels or opposition groups are.
According to Wikileaks, an inchoate plan to overthrow Assad was already in evidence in 2006:
https://www.rt.com/news/314852-assange-wikileaks-us-syria/
However, General Leslie Clark (Retired 4-star U.S. Army general, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO ) has oft repeated the claim that he was made aware of US intentions to affect regime change in Syria during a visit to the pentagon just ten days after the WTC attacks of 9/11. (See 2 March 2007 Democracy Now interview with General Clark).
White helmets are creation of CIA/MI6 and funded by the US, well known for staging massacres for western consumption. They prevent civilins from leaving combat areas. In fact they participated in beheadings and other executions disposing the bodies afterwords.
Just check these out:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3fSYcUIAA9vhL.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr3fSZtUEAE33o1.jpg
White helmets work with “moderates” like these:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq6mvv6UsAAeWoQ.jpg
If you want to know what’s really going on in Syrian war try this:
https://syrianwarupdate.wordpress.com/2016/09/19/mark-the-date-open-direct-us-led-allies-aggression-against-legitimate-syrian-government-has-begun/
Murtaza – thanks for the heads up about the Netflix documentary.
This article reads like propaganda for more violence by the faking U$A.
This quote,
“We are not asking for anything, except the implementation of
resolutions and agreements asking for an end to the indiscriminate
bombings, besiegement, torture, and the use of chemical weapons
BY THE REGIME,”(emphasis added)
clearly shows that the person speaking is not politically neutral.
We are expected to ignore the vicious assaults by the faking U$A.
There was no mention of the fact that the cease fire was ended
by the Obama administration’s aggression.
There is no side of the warfare which is good, but this article portrays
the Syrian government and Russia as vicious and makes nary a peep
as to how the faking U$A corporate war machine has been a
major cause of bloodshed and destruction.
One sided Propaganda is not good journalism.
In a way, this article is insulting to those who are truly passionate
about stopping
ALL of the violence.
The Obama Two-Step on Syria
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/23/the-obama-two-step-on-syria/
excerpt:
from “The Politics of Bombing: Wholesale, Retail and Improvised” http://petras.lahaine.org/?p=2102
Past and Present Islamic, Democratic and Nazi International Brigades
http://petras.lahaine.org/b2-img/PetrasPastAndPresent.pdf
I’ll leave with this comment– this piece is propaganda. Yes, the Syrian government is brutal and that should be covered, but you don’t cover it by providing a megaphone to someone who claims to be apolitical and who avoids making one single solitary comment critical of Al Qaeda and its ” moderate” allies. Where is your journalistic critical sense?
I can’t wrap my head around how blatantly Orwellian Syrian coverage is. On the one hand, everyone knows that Al Qaeda is the strongest rebel force and its allies are often identical in their ideology. But nobody in the mainstream writes about it. Readers are expected to forget who Al Qaeda is and what they stand for. We are treated like we are idiots.
see https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MJ53Cvac8zo/V-1zw6iFV4I/AAAAAAAAMfc/_S1QxoC8Pn0QO2uitP-xhx26TP2ogQukgCLcB/s400/312169_200178250130502_1975159814_n.jpg
It is indeed orwellian. The Aleppo thing continues because the yankees and their acolytes succour the terrorist element and provide a propaganda platform. The “white helmets” are part of this platform. It is now evident that the destruction of Libya spearheaded by Clinton as secretary of state led to a massive infusion of weapons to the barbarian element who piggybacked on to the dissident element to destabilize Syria. In light of the threat of nuclear war from the insane yankee policy, one has to say it is not only criminal but stupid and, if the threat were not serious, there would be a black comedy element in the yankee position on this.
The Red Line and the Rat Line
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line
No freaking way in hell the directors of this Syrian debacle yankees,they are zionists,the farthest thing from yankees there could be.
Trump is a yankee,Obomba and the hell bitch are certainly not,as yankees are patriots who work for American interests,and we have no interests there,screw pipeline HS.We are there for Israel.
Exactly! Orwellian is the perfect description– thanks for such a measured comment
Well, white helmets are just Nusra terrorists in costumes. Do you know they have nothing to do with civil defense or even with Syria? There is Syrian civil defense, with many decades old history. It has nothing to do with this CIA PR branch of jihadist radicals though. It is quite shame such article is on The Intercept, which was the source of very interesting informations about illegal drone progam of the Obama’s administration and so on. It look like The Intercept sinks slowly among mainstream media blob. Here you can learn something about the White Helmets:
https://youtu.be/I8mA0h7dCKI
Talk about the White Helmets starts at 14:37 but whole interview woths to watch.
WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbath
http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath
How US Propaganda Plays in Syrian War
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/09/23/how-us-propaganda-plays-in-syrian-war/
I’ve entered the Twilight Zone if now the Intercept is white washing the white helmets. This is pretty disappointing.
Its all about pushing the outer limits to elect HRC,the most unbelievably corrupt pos politician in our history,over our dead bodies.
By Rick Rozoff (from 2012)
U.S. Campaign Against Syria: Years In The Making
https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2012/07/28/u-s-campaign-against-syria-years-in-the-making/
Starting a civil war is a bad idea. Starting one and then losing it is an even worse idea. The Assad government is reasserting control of the area. If these people don’t want to be bombed they can surrender. Fighters can leave the city and maybe get safe passage to Turkey or wherever.
They started a civil war and now they are about to lose it. It happened here in the United States during our own Civil War.
Western posturing about war crimes is the acme of hypocrisy when you consider the ongoing slaughter in Iraq which has been occurring since the Shock and Awe campaign. And they haven’t even started the attack in Mosul yet.
http://original.antiwar.com/updates/2016/09/30/2381-killed-iraq-september/
From Wiki Shock and Awe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe
I don’t doubt the brutality of the Syrian government or the heroism of ordinary Syrians, but why do we hear nothing about the crimes of the rebels in this or other accounts? We do read about the crimes of ISIS , but one would think from reading this and other accounts tha Al Qaeda is fighting a clean war. This person says he is apolitical, yet he only condemns bombings and sieges conducted by the regime. The rebels use the same tactics– they are just less powerful.
Almost everything I read about Syria seems like propaganda for one side or the other. The emphasis is always on the barbarism of one faction or two ( The Syrian government and Isis or the rebels and Isis). Almost no one condemns atrocities and thuggishness no matter who commits them. Dishonesty on this subject is virtually universal.
If the White Helmets’ only purpose is to rescue civilians immediately after civilian airstrikes then I applaud them for their bravery and deep concern for fellow human beings.
But, I must admit, them making a documentary film in the US is disturbing considering the US stance on Syria — Assad out, and ‘moderate’ terrorists in. Because to the US ‘moderate’ terrorists include: al-Nusra (which = al-Qaeda) and possbily Daesh when taking into consideration the recent US airstrike that killed 80+ Syrian soldiers several weeks ago.
And if the US really does support these two fanatical (not moderate) terrorists, then they are doing an unholy disservice to the world w/regards to respect for human life and property. Not just to the Syrians, but to the entire Middle East as well as Western areas who have been forced to take in terrorists mixed in with migrants. “Unholy” also because it is pushing for a WW III.
Not to mention the disrespect the US would be showing to the 3000 victims who died in the al-Qaeda 9/11 World Trade Center attacks in New York. Because al-Qaeda = el-Nusra, whom the US is supporting in Syria.
VIDEO: Syria White Helmet Savagery Hand in Hand with Nusra Front aka Al Qaeda
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/30/video-syria-white-helmet-savagery-hand-in-hand-with-nusra-front-aka-al-qaeda/
Thanks. I followed your link and also found this–
http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/10/28/part-ii-syrias-white-helmets-war-by-way-of-deception-moderate-executioners/
As I said above, I also don’t believe people who whitewash the Syrian government’s crimes, but someone in the Intercept needs to write about the material here. Everything about Syria is awash in propaganda– there needs to be someplace where we can read honest coverage about the lies and atrocities and alliances in this ugly war.
The Intercept recently published a piece by Zaid Jilani titled, “Hillary Clinton’s National Security Advisers Are a “Who’s Who” of the Warfare State”; mentioned in the piece among her advisers was David Petraeus.
See this piece from 2015:
General Petraeus calls for recruiting Al Qaeda
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/09/16/petr-s16.html
Hellbots for Betraeus!The absurd hypocrisy is asphyxiating.
This is disappointing. I urge The Intercept to study Vanessa Beeley’s work on the White Helmets collusion with Al Nusrah and their habit of being their for the camera money shot as if they knew in advance.
Ms Beeley went to Syria as a guest of Assad. She is an Assad mouthpiece who claims to be pro peace while supporting a brutal dictator.
from 2012:
US intelligence admits Syria arms aid goes to Al Qaeda
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/10/syri-o16.html
from Feb 2016:
The US “Plan B” for Syria and the threat of world war
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/02/12/pers-f12.html
Turkey’s secret pact with Islamic State exposed by operative behind wave of ISIS attacks
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/turkeys-secret-pact-with-islamic-state-exposed-by-operative-behind-wave-of-isis-attacks-6b35d1d29e18#.ajglb5j6b
from 2012:
The CIA proxy war in Syria and the pro-imperialist “left”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/08/pers-a03.html
We’re really propping up the White Helmets as legit though?