Two former CIA captives recently described being threatened with a makeshift electric chair — a previously unreported torture method — while being held in the U.S. government’s infamous “Salt Pit” prison in Afghanistan.
In independent interviews with Human Rights Watch in August that were made public on Monday, Ridha al-Najjar, 51, and Lufti al-Arabi al-Gharisi, 52, described a metal device that had wires with clips that would attach to the fingers, and a helmet connected to wires.
“I saw an electric box, … the chair. They said, we will torture you with electricity here,” al-Gharisi said.
Al-Gharisi said he was forced into the chair and connected to the machine, but was never actually electrocuted.
Both men also described various forms of water torture, including having their heads dunked in a bucket of water until they couldn’t breathe, waterboarding, and being strapped to a board while submerged face down in a bathtub.
This is the first time al-Najjar and al-Gharisi, both of who are Tunisian nationals, have spoken out about their time in CIA custody.
There is no mention of electric chairs in the unclassified executive summary of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s Torture Report that was released in December 2014.
“These terrifying accounts of previously unreported CIA torture methods show how little the public still knows about the U.S. torture program,” said Laura Pitter, senior national security counsel for Human Rights Watch. “The release of these two men without the U.S. providing any assistance or redress for their torture and suffering also shows how much the U.S. still needs to do to put the CIA torture program behind it.”
Both men are Tunisian citizens, and were released and repatriated to their home country last year. Neither was ever charged with a crime, and the U.S. government did not compensate either for their torture or 13 years of detention without charge.
The abuses the two men describe took place at the Salt Pit — a converted brick factory north of Kabul, Afghanistan, referred to in the Senate’s Torture Report as “Detention Site COBALT.” Many of the most sadistic abuses of the CIA program’s history took place at the facility, which al-Najjar and al-Gharisi refer to only as the “dark prison.”
CIA interrogators quoted in the declassified executive summary of the Senate report describe the prison as “a dungeon,” where detainees “cowered” when interrogators entered their cells, looking “like a dog that had been kenneled.”
Although the declassified summary did not mention electric shocks or an electric chair, it is possible that the full report — which contains a detailed account of each detainee’s interrogation — does. It remains classified by the Obama administration.
According to the Senate report’s summary, al-Najjar was the first detainee held in Detention Site Cobalt.
CIA spokesman Ryan Trapani told Human Rights Watch that the “CIA reviewed its records and found nothing to support these new claims.”
Al-Najjar’s Capture and Interrogation
U.S. and Pakistani forces captured al-Najjar near Karachi, Pakistan, breaking into his family’s home in May 2002. According to the Senate torture report, the CIA initially thought he was Osama bin Laden’s bodyguard, but the U.S. government has never publically presented evidence for that allegation.
Al-Najjar described the day he was transferred to the “dark prison” as the “worst experience of his life”: On that day an Arab interrogator entered his cell, demanding information, and when al-Najjar could not provide it, the interrogator said “wait until you see what happens to you where we take you next. At the next place we will hang you from your anus.”
Najjar’s interrogators then doubled him over and chained his wrists to his legs. They put a bag over his head, and inserted something into his rectum, he recalled.
Documents examined by Senate investigators noted that anal exams at the Salt Pit were often conducted with “excessive force.”
Two months after al-Najjar was transferred to the Salt Pit, in November 2002, Afghan detainee Gul Rahman was tortured to death there. He was dragged outside of his cell, stripped naked, beaten, and repeatedly immersed in cold water. After being put in an isolation cell overnight, he died of hypothermia. An internal CIA investigation admits that Rahman froze to death, but blames it on Rahman for rejecting his last meal, saying he denied his body “a source of fuel to keep him warm.”
In response to Rahman’s death, the CIA would release its first formal guidelines for detainee interrogation. But al-Najjar’s ordeal had begun months earlier.
Al-Najjar told Human Rights Watch that when he first arrived at the facility, he was stripped naked, thrown on a concrete floor, and doused with cold water. The same Arab interrogator that had threatened to hang him “from his anus” cocked a gun and held it to the back of his head, saying that if al-Najjar did not talk, he would kill him.
His interrogators would hang him from the ceiling for 24-hour periods, his wrists strapped to a metal bar over his head and his toes barely able to touch the ground. Often, according to al-Najjar, while he was in this position, guards would beat his legs and back with a baton, or punch him in the kidneys.
While in CIA custody, al-Najjar was kept in a dark room, and could only see when his interrogators shined a light in his face. He was fed every third day and forced to wear a diaper that was only changed every four days.
According to the Senate report, CIA officials initially recommended that interrogators utilize “Najjar’s fear for the well-being of his family to our benefit,” and said that interrogators should use “vague threats” to produce a “mind virus” that would cause al-Najjar to believe abuses would worsen until he cooperated. In August 2002, the CIA authorized an interrogation plan for al-Najjar that consisted of loud music, purposefully bad food, sleep deprivation, and hooding. But his mistreatment seems to have gone far beyond that.
On Sept. 21, 2002, less than a month into his time at the Salt Pit, CIA cables described al-Najjar as “clearly a broken man” and “on the verge of complete breakdown.” But his torture continued, and he was not transferred out of CIA custody until 2004.
Al-Gharisi’s Interrogation
U.S. and Pakistani forces captured al-Gharisi near Peshawar in Northern Pakistan in May 2002. His interrogators repeatedly accused him of having ties to al Qaeda — ties which he says he repeatedly denied to his interrogators. He would eventually be rendered to the Salt Pit and tortured for hundreds of days.
The declassified summary of the Senate’s report only says al-Gharisi was tortured without authorization from CIA headquarters and underwent at least two 48-hour stretches of sleep deprivation.
But al-Gharisi told Human Right Watch he suffered many of the same abuses as al-Najjar, including sleep deprivation, water torture, being threatened with an electric chair, and being hung from a rod while beaten with batons. During his interview, al-Gharisi pointed to spots where his teeth had been knocked out.
Al-Gharisi was transferred into military custody sometime in late 2003.
During the more than 10 years that the two men were in military custody, the International Justice Network filed a petition of habeas corpus in a U.S. court, requesting information on why they had been detained. The Justice Department argued that the U.S. military prison in Bagram was beyond the court’s jurisdiction, and the petition was ultimately denied.
Aftermath of Torture, Detention
During his time in CIA custody, al-Najjar claims to have suffered broken bones, broken hips, a broken ankle, damaged knees and a damaged jaw. He received treatment after being transferred into U.S. military custody, but declined to have arthroscopic surgery on his knee, worried that it would make it worse. A medical adviser for Physicians for Human Rights examined x-rays of al-Najjar’s leg, taken after he was released last year and confirmed that his ankle had been broken and that he had experience knee trauma.
Today, al-Najjar and al-Gharisi are dependent on their families, unable to find work due to lingering physical and psychological trauma, Human Right Watch said. Al-Najjar says he lives with chronic pain in his ankle, hips, and backbone, and that he has kidney pain, a hernia, and blood in his stool. Al-Gharisi says he has chronic pain, and blurred vision. He says he does not see a doctor, because he cannot afford one.
The U.S. has not compensated any of the 119 detainees held in CIA custody for mistreatment.
The full Senate torture report — reading in at over 6,000 pages — remains the most authoritative history of the CIA torture program to date. The executive summary was declassified over a year ago, but the CIA is still fighting to bury the full report. Apparently averse to learning lessons from the past, the Obama administration refuses to open any of the copies in its possession.
Last year, Congress passed a law requiring CIA interrogations to comply with the Army Field Manual, effectively prohibiting torture in the future.
But anti-torture laws did not stop the Bush administration. And following the Obama administration’s failure to prosecute any officials responsible for their crimes, torture remains an applause line for one of the U.S.’s major political parties.
Illustration based on statements by the two former detainees.
I used to teach SERE to fellow flyers in the military and also attended SERE training myself so was “tortured” by my own military as so many neocons talked about. This in no way makes torture, especially waterboarding something we should be doing.
I had the privileged of attending my first training in 1977 shortly after Vietnam so the school house commander and visiting instructors were guests of the North Vietnamese who were themselves tortured. They made it clear to us that we learned how to handle torture and living in non compliant prison conditions because the United States as a signatory to the Geneva Conventions did not and would not act with such disregard for International Law.
I remember teaching a class in the 90’s when a young Lieutenant asked me why we follow the rule of law when our enemies don’t. I replied that the first time we, the United States did not there would be Hell to pay. I further stated that that Hell would fall upon American soldiers, sailors and airmen like a thunder clap.
What happened in Iraq was that withing a week of the Abu Ghraib photos being released an American soldier was kidnapped and beheaded on the web. Abu Ghraib became the biggest single recruiting tool for foreign fighters to fuel the insurgency in Iraq and it along with Guantanamo is still a sore spot among Muslims worldwide.
As an Intelligence Officer, SERE Instructor, Combat Aircrew Member and just as a Professional Officer, I felt betrayed by an administration and Secretary of Defense that pushed what were clearly illegal orders. I also felt that the Officer and NCO Corps was severely harmed and still hasn’t recovered as numerous members just followed what were clearly illegal orders without questioning them.
“The U.S. has not compensated any of the 119 detainees held in CIA custody for mistreatment.”
One can expect nothing else from the 21st century’s Evil Empire.
As if libs and The Intercept would even find such a “compensation” satisfactory.
You also have to wonder what other methods and things they’re still hiding.
I know some of it. Happens in UK to…and I believe by British G-men of some sort, impossible to know anything for sure.
As the reports of the SSCI and CIA IG demonstrate, many Agency personnel frequently used tactics that any sane person would call torture and, of course, tactics that the CIA’s own guidelines did not even approve of (i.e. Albert el Gamil & Matthew Zirbel) The Justice Department and CIA approved many controversial techniques, but an electric chair was not one of them.
Did the Bush administration really think the RDI program could be “smoothly” run?
There can be no meaningful “war on terror” until abuses like this are fully admitted and compensated for, and the perpetrators held accountable. Until then it is just one criminal faction attacking others.
Only one of the U.S.’s major political parties? Are you serious?
Every person who was in the chain of command during the CIA torture of terror SUSPECTS is a lying, sadistic coward. To claim that the torture of any prisoner was merely the result of insufficient oversight is a surefire formula for future abuse in absence of legal culpability.
Obama’s shameful failure to prosecute a single official responsible for the ILLEGAL torture of terror SUSPECTS in US custody hasn’t affected his popularity with African Americans who, when last polled, overwhelming approve (88%) of his Presidential performance.
Sick.
https://www.youtube.com/attribution?v=YnyK40A1iMo
Dr. MOSS DAVID POSNER was a Viet Nam draft resistor turned California physician,who rated 5 out of 5 stars with his patients.
He wrote about ADD, had a page at Peacepink, and he worked in the CA prisons, until he was finally forced out, because he kept extensive files about prisoner health, mental health; records of rape, torture and abuse in various CA prion facilities.
In short he was a criminal-a man who practiced a dangerous doctrine of ‘first do no harm.’
And, he believed he too was a target of malicious organized harassment.
The link above is one of his video’s advising targets of organized stalking on how to survive. In other words-Dr. Posner ( unlike Mona, or Glenn, apparently) knew that organized stalking is real, and actual.
He died in 2012.
Sorry to hear.
yes, so sorry to hear- dnt think i ever spoke to him but have been on Peacepink myself for fair few years. I’m well aware how bad it can get :-(
This is the behaviour of the leader of the “Free World” club, that New Zealand/Aotearoa is a member of.
It is unacceptable behaviour. The perpetrators should be held to account. Instead they lead respectable lives back in America. Their families and neighbours knowing nothing of their misdeeds.
This unaccountable behaviour makes it easy for citizens in other countries to turn away from the USA. Who wants to be associated with a country that tortures?
The failure of the American government to take any action against it’s criminals, makes it easy for countries like Brazil, India and South Africa, to justify it’s association with China and Russia, rather than the USA, and is making others think twice.
Unfortunately the forthcoming elections present little opportunity for the good people of America to correct the mistakes of the past, nor to prevent similar tragedies in the future.
John Rothery (Tauranga)
You note good points all. We here in Canada are in a Free Trade agreement with the U.S. and are slowly being drawn into their bed whether we like it or not. Rejecting them and their ongoing schemes that have nothing to do with the specifics of NAFTA are not an option. Should we balk at some scheme, they simply threaten to hold our goods up at the border for “thorough” checks. Our business community is then strongly motivated to lobby our government to capitulate. …Works every time!
We had our police complicit in schemes where they supplied dodgy information to the U.S. about a handful of citizens and landed immigrants. The U.S. then rendered them to torture, or had foreign governments arrest them and torture them. Canada has held those responsible safe and protected the U.S. from our courts.
Our recently defeated Conservative government entered into an agreement to buy 65 of the new stealth fights that are apparently a bag full of problems. This is to enter into military adventures around the world with the U.S. There’s a $800 million penalty should future governments cancel.
We now have to obtain clearance to board each and every passenger on international flights into and out of Canada. —And do so under a secrecy governance scheme which is totalitarian.
Under the above scheme, we now, after years of refusing to do so, enforce the million plus member No-Fly List, complete with its 14 peace activist nuns possibly, if they haven’t finally been removed.
We now have requirements that a Transportation Security Clearance be held by not only transportation workers crossing the border, but by domestic freight handlers as well. Again this scheme is governed by secrecy. Applicants have to submit to a secret investigation by U.S. and Canadian police of themselves, their family, friends, and associates, for secret criteria. Those failing are simply barred and designated a “security threat” without any reason given. We do know that a criminal record of any kind and any time will get a refusal. Also drug use or association with those that have a drug history. The file created is shared at the pleasure of the U.S.
There’s more but let this stand as further good reason to avoid involvement with them. Guaranteed it will not go well.
Tazers are more fun on the Planet of the Apes.
I wonder how many electrocutions they performed.
The epitomy of TREACHERY perpetrated with deliberate wickedness (do call it a mistake you who chant francis scott while clothed in deliberate usa-patriotism. and the spirit of democracy. Not it is not usa, it is worst than all the kosher totalitarian regimes combined and with impunity domestically and abroad. Disgusting is short.
There’s something I do have to ask about though. On the video, I see the man move his arms but I never get a good look at his wrists. Is it possible to hang a man by his wrists “24 hours a day” for a month and not leave clearly visible, lasting scars from the ill-treatment? I have no doubt that the American torturers did wrong, but I’m still wary of believing everything.
His account has the ring of truth. I think when he says hang he doesn’t necessarily mean it literally. They put your arms up in stress position so you can’t get comfortable. It’s excruciating but leaves no marks. Sometimes they also give you drugs to make the pain worse or to make it seem like it’s lasting longer than it is. You don’t remember the drugs.
Can you give a reference about the drugs? I’ve long suspected that substances like naloxone would be used this way, but have never seen a clear report of it.
Naloxene. Hmm. Bmull?
https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/video/2016/10/03/video-ex-detainee-describes-unreported-cia-torture
This is his name, at least according to HRW – Lotfi al-Arabi El Gherissi, not al-Gharisi
Electroshock therapy. That is what the System did to my WWI grandfather, a victim of mustard gas. Maybe it was good for terrorists too?
You should try it, maybe it will help you too.
It’s quite simple. Torture is illegal. Torture is ineffective. Torture does not make us safe. Torture empowers our enemies and endangers our allies.
Over a decade now of increasingly barbaric strategies. We cashed all of our goodwill checks, and now even our former allies have grown to despise us, to fear us. The leaders who went along with our schemes have been ousted and disgraced, and the new leadership has found better allies. Better allies like Russia, China, India, Iran. Why have we decimated our influence?
Did we defeat the terrorists? Have we bombed and bludgeoned fear to death? No, our policies and our lack of vision created more terrorists, more countries willing to fund them, more instability, more fear. Torture is a dead end, the path of ruined empires.
These actions may seem counter-intuitive to a people who want peace however Strife is very profitable. Your government does not want peace it wants profit.
This was nothing compared to what the CIA did to Vietnamese in the Phoenix program. I’t hard to remember an organized group of sadistic psychopaths that were worse without going back to the SS–
“Rape, gang rape, rape using eels, snakes, or hard objects, and rape followed by murder; electric shock (‘the Bell Telephone Hour’) rendered by attaching wires to the genitals or other sensitive parts of the body, like the tongue; the ‘water treatment'; the ‘airplane’ in which the prisoner’s arms were tied behind the back, and the rope looped over a hook on the ceiling, suspending the prisoner in midair, after which he or she was beaten; beatings with rubber hoses and whips; the use of police dogs to maul prisoners…”
It’s gonna be a long haul making America great again.
Have you ever watched a kid take a leg off an insect ?
An electrocution ?
They did away with electrocution ( and hangings ) because ticket sales
went down .
Now we have death-sleep scenes , via drugs , and sales are up .
Hey! Good Times – for bad (or sociopathic) people…!!!
Do you think theres a bit of it in us all ?
Maybe with a taste the appetite grows ?
Its truly remarkable how low tech state of the art torture techniques remained at gitmo and other black sites given our modern wealth of truly invasive health and medical technologies and all of the advances in modern neuroscience, biochemistry and psychopharmacology.
It would be unfortunate if the well trained Health, Medical and Psychiatric research staffs at any of the now known facilities (or the as yet unknown facilities that have no doubt replaced them) missed such a tremendous opportunity to pursue many DARPA or IARPA funded lines of academic inquiry into cutting edge science on the human animal (conscious or unconscious) without all those pesky Geneva Convention limitations on human experimentation.
You know like recording dreams or nightmares, implanting or removing memories, reconstructing what you are able to view through eyes that are not your own, using full spectrum light and sound to create and cultivate and even remotely encourage situation optimal emotional states in friend or foe alike using all the seen and unseen tangible and intangible tools at hand (full spectrum) wherever you find them. You know. Legitimate lines of scientific inquiry.
Or I guess these highly trained professionals can simply track the metabolic rates of the same stale pool of already fatigued long tortured test subjects confronted with a half assed electric chair after their last rectal feeding in a stress position.
Have you Hillary ?
That’s state-of-art torture !!
I meant to say :
Have you tried Hillary yet ?
That is state-of-art torture ,, pal .
Pragmatic Incremental-ism !
One twist at a time !!
And step on it…
There’s a lot I expect to see abused that no one is writing about. Let’s start with the researchers who have been mapping out how words are stored in the brain ( http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/04/27/475871745/scans-show-the-brain-groups-words-by-meaning ). They talk about using this for people with horrible injuries, but who’s kidding who? This is spy state technology. Then there are terahertz health effects – people keep looking at broad noise in the terahertz spectrum and alleging small effects that might be cancerous, but the real issue is using a highly monochromatic form to displace particular proteins from the DNA with specific, predictable effects, such as inducing depression or other debilitating symptoms. For that matter, I have yet to see any publication about the torturers even exploiting the full potential of short-acting opiates to induce positive feedback for specific behaviors without the victim even realizing he’s being addicted to some pattern of behavior (like talking). I mean, an addict only gets addicted to smoking because he *associates* the cigarette with the effect; if he got the same chemical high whenever he started sucking a penis, you could addict a hardcore heterosexual to it.
Wow. Very cool, innovative thinking. And nicely written. Kudos.
I have already put USA on my list of countries I never will visit, and I try to avoid products made in USA. Boycott USA!
You sound like Madame DeFarge in the Tale of Two Cities .
Knitting vs Address Book .
Where is the report on secret prisons? Where they were? How much they cost? How many prisoners? Any Ghost Detainees? and so forth. Has the Government ever confessed to its crimes?
Someone should get a cadaver dog and go looking around the site for “the disappeared.”
There is no statute of limitations for murder.
Murder. What murder. It’s collateral damage or damaged collateral.
A few facts :
1—- Obama has not stood up against CIA torture .
2—–Obama has not pardoned Edward Snowden for telling on the
NSA , CIA , FBI , DEA , DOJ , FEMA , DOD , ,, etc
3—–Obama is the biggest ” House Nigga ” since Clarence Thomas .
Obama had good intentions but he was not allowed to proceed.
Your president is just a puppet.
MKULTRA continues, domestically DEW’s are used on civilians.
Covert, no touch, torture with complete deniability.
The FSU, Navy Shipyard and Baton Rouge shooters complained of being subjects.
RF weaponry is lethal over time.
There isn’t anything even close to “no touch” torture.
You are an ignorant person. I presume you are an American too.
RF—As in Radio Frequency ?
Radio Frequency Radiation, no touch.
See “Moscow Signal” used on U.S. embassy in Russia.
It was also used on weapon Protestors in Greenham, UK.
Also used in Iraq.
To WNT :
” It remains classified by the Obama administration. ”
Does this make the incumbent ” House Nigga ” an accomplice ?
We already know that the Clintons are just a bunch of White Trash , right ?
However enraging the cowardice of the Obama administration may be, they deserve some credit for not being the ones this report is actually about. Whereas — this is the “helluva lot worse than water boarding” that Trump fans cheer on. And they’re the majority: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-poll-finds-majority-of-americans-believe-torture-justified-after-911-attacks/2014/12/16/f6ee1208-847c-11e4-9534-f79a23c40e6c_story.html
From the very beginning when the first vapid talking heads started talking about the four people to torture after 9/11 … at least two of them were totally, demonstrably innocent. The cheerleaders of torture are always eager to admit that they have to take harsh measures to deal with bad people, but you never hear them mention any remorse for when they do their worst to the people who won’t talk because they have nothing to tell.
We tortured some folks. I am quite positive that had Nazi Germany won the war, the successor to Adolf would have said the same thing and would by now be using drones and killing innocent persons. Perhaps this new program and the threat of a trillion dollars of mini-nukes is the guantanamo virus on a much larger scale.
The more things seem to change…
Hitler did in fact use drones, and they were history’s first, only the allies called them buzz-bombs and the German military the Vergeltungswaffe 1 (V-1). However, unlike modern drones, their guidance systems were limited to 1940s state-of-the art, but they killed ya just as dead.
About those V-1 and V-2 guided missiles . Once launched there was no control . They used on-board gyros and accelerometers to follow a launch -to-target trajectory that was set at launch .
A Drone is flown by a CIA video wacko to target . And the video wacko then
decides if it will bring his score up .
And when it was all said and done guess who got a pass to America ?
Yep ,, old Warner and his rocket NAZI .
That crew got the first USA satellite into orbit .
HUNTSVILLE ALABAMA ?
So , let me get this straight .
The CIA tortures and murders people and that is not a debate topic , right ?
Its done in the name of America with American money , and that is not a debate topic .
Could it be that the CIA is running the Debate Show ?
Ask Hillary ,, she knows .
LOL!!! Just the Debate Show?? seriously– how about running the Government
What the hell is a “GOVERNMENT ” ?
Question : Why isn’t CIA torture a debate topic ?
Answer : Torture is the lesser evil .
That’s why we like Hillary !
Long live Torture and Pragmatic Incremental-ism .
criminal institutions
invading a sovereign country for their oil
murdering thousands and getting thousands of americans killed
selling weapons from libya to ISIS
murdering Palestinians to steal their land
threatening Americans who say #BDS
robbing the economy and depriving people to force fony loan values to steal their homes
we came, we saw, he died
subjugating America to the TPP
lucifer is jealous.
Now imagine he was white…
He was in his previous life. What I mean is his predecessor was white and Obama doubled down because putting them in Gitmo makes us “look bad”.
Jimmy Carter, the “human rights” president, advised the Shah of Iran to keep torturing his citizenry in the final days of his regime. The Shah’s regime used some creative methods of torture, like heating/wiring bed frames and tying people to them. The US gov’t was always there to aid and abet torture methods done in their interests. When there are complaints of the current Iranian regime, keep in mind whence they came. What goes on in Afghanistan is just par for the course. This has nothing to do with 9/11, this game was in play long before that. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
The purpose of torture is never to get information. Its true purpose is to terrorize the people who haven’t been tortured yet.
sure nuf
Exactly and of course it gives great jollies to the twisted, sick people who do it and condone it
At inception, when our national security agencies were created, the CIA, FBI, NSA and 100% of all other agencies (federal, state, local) – were required to operate within the U.S. Constitution [a wartime charter]. There are emergency clauses already built in to the U.S. Constitution.
An American-style agency means there are “restraints” on government power dealing with all persons, citizens and non-citizens, on U.S. soil and U.S. controlled territories (14th Amendment) and U.S. citizens on foreign soil. That means these agencies can only perform searches if there is “probable cause” of a past crime for an “individual” – not targeting an entire group using guilt-by-association. Today 100% of agency personnel and contractors agree to a supreme loyalty oath, oath of office, to operate within constitutional boundaries as a condition of authority over other people.
That’s the root if the problem, it was built upon an illegal and flawed foundation in the first place. The big question is how do we “Americanize” our national security agencies so they resemble a constitutional agency instead of a communist-style Stasi or secret police?
Not possible.
You would have to declare a soverign state
The state has to redeclare rights etc
But then, by upstaging the arrogance and trespasses and evils of the follower states, your state would be branded as subversive
Then the shit hits the fan
If the U.S. Supreme Court does it’s duty in interpreting the letter & spirit of the U.S. Constitution -or- requiring a constitutional amendment – it is totally possible.
The high court started this slippery slope in the late 1960’s and 1970’s with the so-called “War On Drugs” where the court essentially gutted the 4th Amendment and distorted it’s meaning, instead of requiring a constitutional amendment. The remains Bill of Rights were destroyed after 9/11.
If the court would uphold it’s duty, a plaintiff harmed could reform these agencies without Congress – making them operate constitutionally.
So all it takes is one man huh who would’ve thunk it. The Messiah!
In fact, the only change we can implement is on the individual level. That is certainly true. But for that change to catch on to the rest of the majority and especially when the large majority is scared shi*tless, it’s near impossible.
one more thing-
i think wallstreet is anticipating this
mainstreet doesnt need wallstreet – they do not grow food
i think wallstreet is trying to corporatise to monopolise the food supply
wallstreet lives in a bubble and if your state cuts them off, they will declare war on your state and kill independents by raising prices and withholding resources
wallstreet thrives on wars.
Precisely the kind of thing that most liberals stopped complaining about by 2009, damn it.
So we could have done without that bit of partisan back-patting in the last sentence, Alex Emmons.
The article does a good job of inspiring disgust with the CIA and its enablers. But yes, that last phrase in the last sentence grates like fingernails across a blackboard. One wonders whether TI’s writers have been encouraged to slip pins into The Donald’s balloon by way of helping Hillary, without mentioning her name.
There’s more, something laughable in the next to last paragraph, which can only be appreciated if read as irony:
“Last year, Congress passed a law requiring CIA interrogations to comply with the Army Field Manual, effectively prohibiting torture in the future.”
Think that 9/11 was a false-flag operation and read this article again.
Ask yourself, why is the US ‘keeps’ doing this? You’ll know what the governing regime in the US stands for. And, you will know how the militaristic new world order works.
You morons with your 9/11. Imperialism started before then. Did just fine in fact. Ciao idiot.
The PNAC memo describing NeoCon/Zionist wet-dreams seem to have become a reality in the last decade, haven’t they?
Simply a coincidence?
The CIA has been doing these tortures since 1947. William Blum’s book “Killing Hope” describes millions and millions of victims worldwide in the 1900s.
Exactly.
Your response is ridiculous– if you know for CERTAIN its wasn’t a false-flag, then please do tell. If not move along.
Do you know for certain that the moon landings weren’t faked? Enquiring minds want to know!
Does anything exist outside of Torontonian’s head? Can we prove for CERTAIN we exist?
In quantum mechanics they call determining where consciousness ends and begins “the hard problem” chief…
ecommcon
This is a very important story to tell, but the famous photo from Abu Ghraib was of a mock electrocution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AbuGhraibAbuse-standing-on-box.jpg
The idea that this was previously unknown is kind of distracting from the importance of the story.
Now that the Senate has overridden Obama’s Veto does that mean that these men will be allowed to sue the USA?
I sure hope so. I am so tired of this private government, and this corrupt CIA that does nothing but give the USA a black eye. Time to tell the Americans how much we give the CIA for a budget and maybe it is time that we start disbanding this CIA. It has created nothing but a mockery of justice and no accountability for the USA government or military. Time to reign their corrupt sorry ANUSES in!
“does that mean that these men will be allowed to sue the USA?”
As far as I can tell, the wording of the law may restrict it to suits from US Nationals and against foreign countries. However the text of the bill does reference other statutes and I haven’t looked at all of them. I”d be glad if maybe someone else could clarify?
quote” Time to tell the Americans how much we give the CIA for a budget and maybe it is time that we start disbanding this CIA.”unquote
Budget? Tell the American people? Hahahahahaha! Senator Pike must be rolling on the floor in gut splitting laughter. Search for the transcripts and the “report” of the Pike Committee and you’ll discover why. Moreover, search for the declassified CIA documents regarding said Committee and you’ll see what those lying sacks of shit did to keep the Committee from learning where the CIA got their budget from at the time. Moreover, President Ford “classified” the report, only to find it was leaked in it’s in entirety to the Village Voice. Most of the Congress don’t have a clue how the CIA get’s it’s budget, although certain “leaks” suggest each head of every agency has to “donate” part of their budget to the CIA..in secret of course.
As for “reigning” in the CIA? Ha. JFK found out the hard way. Moreover, Jim Garrison in 1967, gave an interview to Playboy after his investigation into the JFK murder, claimed, as have others, the CIA “IS” the government. Leaving Congress just a debating society with no power over the CIA whatsoever, and the executive is OWNED. So don’t hold your breath. But yeah…corrupt is a massive understatement. They redefine the word mafia. Drug and weapons running, undermining and overthrowing governments, torture…murder..blackmail… you name it. They own it.
makes sense to me
often wondered about that
presidents come and go
“presidents come and go”– YUP and they are all the same and marketed to the US electorate” First black president”, “First female president”– it makes you want to barf if you live outside the US– and if you live in the US well times up — you guys have to do something or you are toast.
Americans need to understand that we are the enemy of those within our government. Our country is run no different than by an “occupying force”. If that doesn’t send a chill down your back your in denial, your stupid or you are a bureaucrat or one their leeches…
The only difference between our fine government and that of the Nazis is a matter of degree. As generalwarrant points out below, one of the two presidential candidates basking in the light of media attention has been party to this process. What he does not say is that the other promises to expand the program.
For a few decades after WW2 the world rejected the defense of many Germans who said they did not know what Hitler was doing. One can argue the plausibility of that argument, but it is definitely true that none of their newspapers or radio programs discussed the death camps or the activities of the Einsatz Reinhard. The same cannot be said for US citizens. It is quite clear: you vote for Hillary or Donald, and you are complicit to war crimes, past or future (or both).
Hear, hear. Well said.
Ditto– well said
The mere fact, these sadistic, scumsucking CIA maggots haven’t been brought to justice for proven war crimes, is living proof the USG is trying to hide it’s war crimes behind a cloak of secrecy. Moreover, our Congress is a criminal conspiritor to hide these crimes, even though some members tried to expose them to the world, most of Congress wants them hidden forever, by locking away the Senate Torture Report. Furthermore, by intentionally NOT reviewing this report, every agency head who received a copy(DOJ/FBI etc)who refuses to open the report, is now a co-conspirator to war crimes, notwithstanding the crime of obstruction of justice. I know it. They know it.
The next time someone tells me the so called “rule of law” is the cornerstone of the US justice system, I’ll spit in their face. The real cornerstone, is BALD FACED LIES. The entire USG is just one big lie after another. And now, one of the biggest, contemptible, certified liars on the face of this planet are on the verge of becoming the POTUS. This country redefines the word… shameless.
As for Obama.. the second he said.. “..we must look forward..not backward”, I knew this bastard lied through his teeth to ME, and those who voted for him.
When he marginalized the enormity of the CIA’s war crimes, by saying.. “yes..we tortured some folks.”….I wanted to slap his face with every ounce of my being. That was the day I realized, Obama was nothing but a mouth piece for the CIA, a lying sack of shit, and a maggot who sold his soul to a legal Imperialism..notwithstanding.. Satan. I spit on the day I voted for this murdering psychopath.
I just pray he burns in hell for eternity.
McCaffery tried to tell folks the U.S. Military and CIA murdered some folks.
Re. hell: doesn’t exist.
While I agree with your sentiment, I think the subjects of this piece came as close as one could to the fires of hell, flames they’ll feel until the days they die.
quote”Re. hell: doesn’t exist.”unquote
Try telling that to the victims of CIA torture in blacksite dungeons.
As for Obama.. the second he said.. “..we must look forward..not backward”
Yep. And with that statement, it ensures the torture ‘ball’ moves down the field ad infinitum. I believe this is a strict policy, never to be challenged by successive presidents. And that is so wrong on so many levels, I don’t even know where to start. Utterly amoral and vile.
Exactly– now go do something positive with that rage– get the $%^#&@*#& money OUT of your system– follow the money– civil disobedience etc.
Will the Veto to Obama and the Saudis being able to be sued allow these people to sue us as well? It is time for it to happen and the USA government and military deserve it. I hope the families in Italy will also be able to sue over the gondola so called accident that nobody was held accountable for.
This could be a very interesting time coming up with no leaders on the horizon.
The cover up of a crime can be judged more criminal than the original crime. Considering the long term ramifications of torture on both the victims and sponsors––torture which was administered widely and over many years, to the point where it became institutionalized, followed by no attempt to make restitution––at which point does the current administration’s continued cover up and non-punishment of systematic torture equal, or even surpass, the torture crimes of the previous administration?
It’s here. We are now torturing in America, wirelessly, by mental institutions and hospitals, law enforcement, cut-outs for the CIA – begging for money. Electronic torture of your neighbor , co-worker, wife, is up for sale to the highest bidder, right now, in complete secrecy.
it’s probably still simmering, waiting for someone to turn up the heat. Hellary wants to do that, feed it, bring to back to life, turn it into an economy. Ever notice how the witch never talks about the NDAA?
I’d like to send the Senate Intelligence Committee sent to the Salt Pit as “detainees.”
Why limit it? I would like to see anyone that had to even sign a dotted line regarding this sitting on a REAL electric chair. Even that would be better than they deserve. In my opinion stand this government, corporations that make the weapons, and military in front of a firing squad. Give them exactly what they deserve. Am I pissed at this government? You damn straight and anyone that isn’t is a complete fool!
It was probably a antique version of mind reading what year was that?
The ignorant in this country won’t get it until they see little Johnny Smith from down the street being tortured on the corporate news by one of our “enemies”
That scum Obama should at the very least be impeached