Hillary Clinton has proposed establishing a no-fly zone in Syria, but Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said Tuesday that such a move could lead Russia to shoot down U.S. planes.
“I wouldn’t put it past them to shoot down an American aircraft if they felt that was threatening to their forces on the ground,” Clapper said during a talk at the Council of Foreign Relations.
Russia recently deployed mobile S-400 and S-300 missile batteries to Western Syria, which are capable of shooting down aircraft and cruise missiles. Clapper signaled that they posed a threat to American planes should the U.S. try to institute a no-fly zone in Syria.
“The system they have there is very advanced, very capable,” said Clapper, “and I don’t think they’d do it – deploy it – if they didn’t have some intention to use it.”
In the past, Clinton has called for “safe zones” and “no-fly zones” in Syria. During the third presidential debate last week, moderator Chris Wallace asked Clinton whether she would fire on Russian aircraft that were violating a U.S.-imposed no-fly zone. She did not answer the question, saying only that a no-fly zone “would take a lot of negotiation,” and that she thinks she could “strike a deal” where Russian planes would avoid no-fly zones.
General Joseph Dunford, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate panel last month that for the U.S. to “control all of the airspace in Syria, it would require us to go to war, against Syria and Russia.”
President Obama dismissed calls for a no-fly zone last year, calling the idea “half-baked.”
Top Photo: James Clapper, U.S. Director of National Intelligence, arrives for a conversation at the Council of Foreign Relations on Oct. 25, 2016, in New York.
Bring on the firefly girls.
Remind me again how US aircraft and military have the right to violate the airspace of the democratically elected Syrian government. Why, Ah do believe that’s war crime.
>>> Hillary did not answer the question, saying only that a no-fly zone “would take a lot of negotiation,” and that she thinks she could “strike a deal” where Russian planes would avoid no-fly zones.<<<
Good catch.
Hillary is either in cahoots with Putin to start global thermonuclear war… or she's the craziest beech on the planet.
A no-fly zone is a no-fly zone, period. If one is imposed, then it is perfectly legitimate for anyone concerned to target and blow out of the sky any aircraft that enters that airspace, be it US, Russian, or Upper Voltan.
I know that the liberals are trying to give away the sovereignty of the US, Syria is a sovereign country and if they don’t want US or NATO Forces to fly over them, that is their right.
Is that another “least truthful” rhetoric from the mouth of Clapper?
Once a liar, always a liar. As far as I’m concerned, his credibility is shot forever.
Why is anyone listening to him?
Mona
“…….In a speech to Goldman Sachs in 2013, Clinton confessed that a no-fly zone in Syria would “kill a lot of Syrians.” This is because it would require bombing Syria’s air defenses, “many of which are located in populated areas,” according to Clinton……” – Mona
According to Christopher Harmer, Senior Naval Analyst at the Institute for the Study of War (“U.S. OPTIONS FOR A SYRIA NO-FLY ZONE”, 11-4-2015), in the limited geographical no fly zone he proposes, the Syrian Air defenses would not have to be bombed saving Syrian lives:
“………While a full No-Fly Zone covering all of Syrian airspace would require active electronic suppression or kinetic engagement of the remnants of the Syrian IADS, the following No-Fly Zone proposals are limited in geographical scope and do not require constant electronic jamming or active kinetic suppression [bombing] of the Syrian IADS. As a matter of prudence, the capability to electronically jam the Syrian IADS on a continuous basis should be present, as well as the ability to destroy the Syrian IADS, although it may not be necessary to do so……” my insertion in brackets
Personally, I have no idea whether Harmer’s suggested limited no fly zones are viable, but these are the kinds of military options Hillary will be looking at – and certainly options that may successfully save Syrian lives provided any are left after Russia levels east Aleppo. Additionally, Hillary is not a military expert. No one with half a brain should depend on what she says.
So you’re saying you have half a brain, because you are not a military expert either but you appear to depend on your own thinking.
I would have put it more directly.
Why Clinton’s plans for no-fly zones in Syria could provoke US-Russia conflict
another shit headline, try “Clapper Suggests Clinton Foreign Policy in Syria Could Lead to Armed Conflict with Russia” for something approaching what is stake…..
….and who is responsible. This site is overly covering for Democrats lately in the headline choices. Knock it off.
In addition to the two Max Blumenthal articles I link just below Craig’s bloviations at 1:01, please also consider what Rania Khalek recently reported:
Very few advocates of a NFZ and /or staring down Russia are willing to, in public, realistically address the likely or possible outcomes. Maybe, as with Clinton, some do so in private?
Do they think risking WWIII is acceptable?
All they do is spew about being “pro-Assad” (and Maz Hussain has just posted yet another interview of a person hurling essentially that obscene accusation) hypocrisy, and any other whataboutery, non sequiturs and ad hominems — never dealing forthrightly with what could reasonably be expected to be the result of implementing their positions.
Mona continues to be a priceless poster on these threads – and one who disingenuously avoids the issues if she has no answer. Mona’s post on October 19th suggests that pro-interventionists will “not grapple with the Russia issue. They pretend it isn’t there” including a challenge to “craigsummers”.
-Mona- ? craigsummers
October 19 2016, 12:36 p.m.
“……….Pay attention to pro-interventionists in these threads, on Twitter, and everywhere else. They will not grapple with the Russia issue. They pretend it isn’t there.
[It isn’t there for Craig Summers either. All interventionists — all, in every venue — simply act as if Russia and its identified interests in Syria do not exist.]……”
? Reply
This morning I posted a response to her challenge which quoted Christopher Harmer, Senior Naval Analyst at the Institute for the Study of War (“U.S. OPTIONS FOR A SYRIA NO-FLY ZONE”, 11-4-2015). He writes that a no fly zone is “reasonable and plausible” under certain conditions. He acknowledges that establishing a no fly zone “is more difficult with Russian aircraft engaged in Syria”, and that there is always the danger of “escalation”. There is more at my post at 7:12 am on this thread.
Here was Mona’s disingenuous attempt to deflect from responding because she had no response:
“………READERS: About 95% of the time I do not substantively reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter (depending on when you ask him). Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board…….This is a course I shall continue in this thread, and one I highly recommend to others……”
This is a classic example of Mona using the “READERS: About 95%…..” response because she has no answer to my post even though she challenged me specifically in her October 19th post. She simply was wrong. In addition, she is assuming I support a no-fly zone in Syria without any references to anything I might have said which indicates that I support a no fly zone.
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not substantively reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter (depending on when you ask him). Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
This is a course I shall continue in this thread, and one I highly recommend to others.
One cannot sufficiently understand everything one reads and hears about Syria — especially from establishment TeeVee and online sites — without the information researched and presented by Max Blumenthal in his recent two-part series. He documents Western conniving and public relations efforts regarding Syria — including the White Helmets, and their being created and trained by a British mercenary. They’re taught to tow video equipment around to record their every rescue for sophisticated PR use, as they advocate for Western intervention.
Because this site doesn’t usually display comments with more than one link, I shall do this in two comments.
Max Blumenthal, Part I: Inside the Shadowy PR Firm That’s Lobbying for Regime Change in Syria
Max Blumenthal, Part II: How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria
Why do all the warmongers look like they escaped from Willowbrook?
Clapper looks a cross between Yoda and the guy locked up in Goonies.
Jesus,save US,vote Trump!
Aug 9, 2016 Kill Russians, kill Iranians, scare Assad!
Ex CIA deputy Mike Morell – Aug 8 – Charlie Rose
https://youtu.be/UZK2FZGKAd0
Mona writes (continually):
“……..No pro-interventionist — and I do mean not one– will directly deal with the fact that Russia believes it has vital interests at stake in Syria, and what it would likely do if the U.S. militarily intervened against Russia in Syria. Whether Obama had done it 2 years ago, or whether Henry Kissinger’s best friend, Hillary, does it next winter or spring……”
Christopher Harmer, Senior Naval Analyst at the Institute for the Study of War (“U.S. OPTIONS FOR A SYRIA NO-FLY ZONE”, 11-4-2015), writes that a no fly zone is “reasonable and plausible” under certain conditions. He acknowledges that establishing a no fly zone “is more difficult with Russian aircraft engaged in Syria”, and that there is always the danger of “escalation”.
“……..The Assad regime has used the Syrian Arab Air Force (SAF) to indiscriminately and deliberately bomb civilian neighborhoods. Establishing a No-Fly Zone over certain locations in Syria will significantly reduce the Assad regime’s ability to conduct widespread bombing attacks against civilian areas. Establishing a No-Fly Zone is more difficult with Russian aircraft engaged in Syria. It is not impossible, however, and can be reasonable and plausible if certain conditions are set. This backgrounder details three separate Courses of Action to establish a No-Fly Zone, as well as two additional courses of action for potential action other than a No-Fly Zone. The suggested No-Fly Zones are limited in geographic scope, covering only a relatively small portion of Syrian air space, and are examined to minimize resource requirements and risk to U.S. equipment and personnel while still presenting a viable and enforceable No-Fly Zone. These are technical studies that explain in practical terms how the U.S. could establish No-Fly-Zones. The options presented here assume the support of Jordan and Turkey in order to put forth a set of options that minimize both cost and risk……”
One interesting point made by Mona is what the Russians “would likely do” if the US established or attempted to establish a no fly zone. The likely answer is nothing because Putin understands that the risk of a war with the US is a no win for either side. Russia does have interests in Syria just as the US and allies do as well. Just the possibility of a no-fly zone could provide enough incentive for Russia to bomb Aleppo into the stone age so that Assad can retake Aleppo before Hillary takes office (as rrheard suggested).
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not substantively reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter (depending on when you ask him). Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
This is a course I shall continue in this thread, and one I highly recommend to others.
I don’t know Mona, nor you but one with half a brain has to more than lean toward her side of the argument. America, with Turkey, UAE, and golf monarchies are supporting terrorists in Syria. This is not a close question, they want regime change in Syria to appease the Israelis and the despotic House of Saud. Are you Sir willing to risk nuclear war with Russia, and Putin has said in no uncertain terms if Russia is attacked its will defend itself with any and all means. You are either a) Mad b) A military shill c) read to much US propaganda.
Try AntiWar.com
MoonofAlabama.org
And read up on US “interests” in Syria, they do not exist except to further radicals in the hopes of appeasing the despots it supports.
I certainly appreciate your reply. I simply replied to Mona’s challenge including dealing with Putin’s threat to use any means to “defend itself with any and all means”. It is possible to implement a no-fly zone without killing a lot Syrians or inflaming relations with Russia to the point of war. No doubt, it probably would have saved a lot of Syrian civilians lives from the current slaughter by the Russian military in east Aleppo if a no-fly zone had been implemented years ago.
It is interesting how Putin tells Russians to get ready for all out war, and I’m the mad one. Putin sends an aircraft carrier along with six war ships to the Gulf, and it is the US inflaming tensions? The Russians set up the S-300 and S-400 missile defense systems and it is the US inflaming tensions? Funny how that works. Russia increases the military build-up in Syria – and that is interpreted by nitwits like yourself as US aggression.
Sounds like another Russian-bot (-bought).
How dare those Russians defend themselves if they feel threatened.
US has no business being in Syrian airspace, they are, in fact, war criminals
for being there
“…….Russians defend themselves if they feel threatened…..”
Syrian or Russian planes bomb school (Middle East Eye, 10-26-2016):
“…….At least seven children were among 22 civilians killed in air strikes Wednesday that hit a school and the surrounding area in Syria’s northwestern Idlib province, a monitor said…..The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said “warplanes – either Russia or Syrian – carried out six strikes” in the village of Hass, including on a school complex…….”One rocket hit the entrance of the school as students were leaving to go home, after the school administration decided to end classes for the day because of the raids,” the activist said, speaking on condition of anonymity……”
Now for the rest of the story…………………………………..Oh, is that all you have on the Russian barbarians?
Brings to mind the hospital in Afghanistan that the US bombed several times after being informed prior that it was operated by Drs. Without Borders.
All of which brings me back to your above statement concerning reasonableness and plausibility of No-Fly Zones. Not too reasonable or plausible considering the mistakes(?) armed forces continually seem to
be making in the area. Unprecedented I would say.
America’s ruling class has no interest in peace. War profiteers capitalize on every ounce of fear they can squeeze out of the American population.
Our current string of wars has cost the American public over $5,000,000,000,000.00, so far.
The fact that these wars were started by war profiteers, SHOULD be enough reason for even the most stubbornly uninformed to LOOK at how brutally dishonest these wars are.
First, America’s war-pigs did what was certain to create enemies (invade sovereign countries and attack innocent people).
Then, America’s war-pigs feigned blindness, until the whole world FORCED them to look at the fact that they were so indiscriminately hostile that they were simply MAKING enemies of random innocents.
Now – despite undeniably KNOWING that their tactics only INCREASE the number of enemies America has – America’s war-pigs KEEP repeating the same behaviour.
Weapons manufacturers, and the politicians they own, CREATE the enemies with which they coerce a cowering American public into submitting to this never-ending, perpetually escalating, multi-trillion dollar protection racket.
It’s hard to imagine how it can get worse, but if the war-pigs force America into a war with Russia, that ought to do it.
https://youtu.be/0GRR_n_yQGA
How many comments of mine are you going to ask be deleted?
I’m sure they’ll do it just to shut you up, again.
I mean, who else but mona demands comments be deleted.
Anyone advocating no fly zones would do well to read Craig Murray on the subject: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/10/support-no-fly-zone-syria-real-one-applies-nato/
He’s one canny hell of a lying little fuck. You can’t put one past ol’ Clapper.
The US has no fucking business in Syria at all, having attempted regime change there by means of ISIS. As a sovereign nation, with an elected government, however revolting it is, Syria would have the right to call for their allies to countermine any US attempt to invade their airspace. In this instance, the main ally is Russia, and the US attempting to enact a no-fly zone which engaged Russia, would in all likelihood lead to US planes being shot down, and the start of a hot war. This would be Hillary’s preamble to her mind-bindingly stupid attempt at “regime change” in Russia, easily escalating into WWIII, which has been her topmost desire ever since her hero, Goldwater, failed to achieve it 50 and change years ago. In your guts you know she’s nuts.
The Treasonous Lying Clapper out trying to start WW3.
Had Clapper been doing his job, the USA would not be in Syria.
“The system they have there is very advanced, very capable,” said Clapper, “and I don’t think they’d do it – deploy it – if they didn’t have some intention to use it.”
The NY metro alone has a larger GDP than Russia. Russia spends 40 Bill a year on military, the US military spends that “paltry” sum in 2 weeks.
The so-called Cold War ended in 1991. The rhetoric from these lying, corrupt, murdering monsters is just that. This man lied to Congress under an oath, and not just to Congress, not just to the US citizenry, but he lied under oath to God. As such, not a word that he says can be deemed as truth.
Oh.
Well, then, I guess all these military people are just idiots, eh? This is written by two Air Force pilots: POLITICAL AIRPOWER, PART I: SAY NO TO THE NO-FLY ZONE
No pro-interventionist — and I do mean not one– will directly deal with the fact that Russia believes it has vital interests at stake in Syria, and what it would likely do if the U.S. militarily intervened against Russia in Syria. Whether Obama had done it 2 years ago, or whether Henry Kissinger’s best friend, Hillary, does it next winter or spring.
Instead, these people generally hurl disgusting accusation at anti-interventionists, e.g., “Assadist!” “Anti-American racist!” and all kinds of other ad hominem non sequiturs that evade the issue of Russia.
Don’t let them get away with that. Not ever. Always bring it right back to Russia, and what Russia can reasonably be expected to do vis-a-vis any and every proposed Western intervention.
Make them confront the carnage that would result in a hot war between Russia and the West. Compel them to explain how that would make life better for the Syrian people, and the rest of the world. Force them to describe, with, specificity, each step of the proposed intervention, what it would cost in both blood and treasure, and what what Russia and Assad could be expected to do in response.
If all they do is retreat to “Assadist!” and other idiotic species of ad hominem, put them on your ignore list.
Wait – is this the same Clapper who lied to Congress – he still has a job and strings people along with his fanciful ideas?
The one and only.
You beat me to it. I was gonna mention the lying thing. How is it this turd was never charged AND still has a job?
I got the hidden punchline!!
If US aircraft are flying over Syria during a no-fly zone period, then they’re violating the no-fly rule. Thus, Russia shooting down any & all aircraft would simply be enforcing the rules.
Because sovereign governments seeking help defending themselves from violent overthrow by outsider-armed, funded and aided rebel groups – is only recognized appropriate for the U.S. empire’s convenience, and particularly when the U.S. is the outsider in question.
Buckle up, everyone, the closed-mind hypocrisy on the way will be epic.
Well geez, considering the US is fighting an illegal war in Syria… attempting to overthrow the legitimate government of a country that is no threat to us…. and then has the audacity to bomb Syrian troops right after a cease-fire agreement was assigned. The Neocon warhawks that are running our foreign policy are going to get us into war. They need to go.
“I wouldn’t put it past them to shoot down an American aircraft if they felt that was threatening to their forces on the ground”
It seem The Clap agrees with what some others have said in plain English: the no-fly zone already exists, and it is a no-go zone for the brave lads in the USAF’s “invisible” machines.
In this case, the liar isn’t lying.
Hillary and her idiotic supporters in both parties need to change course.
I wouldn’t put it past the Merikan Empire, Inc and its neo-con lunatics to fire at their own planes then blame it on Russia.
Thats more their m.o.
“Thats more their m.o.”
Yes. The false-flag has been used more than once.
I wouldn’t put it past Clapper to lie. I wouldn’t put it past (either) Clinton to lie. I would put it past Obama to lie. I wouldn’t put it past most of the people “in charge” to lie while funded from the Deep State payroll, in or out of government.
But now this vast, all-wing conspiracy of famous liars asks us to believe Russia is responsible for the biting embarrassment these liars suffer solely because their own written words are exposed to the light of day?
Their only recourse to save themselves now is to nominate an enemy of convenience and again drive the country to war. And most Americans, left and right, will likely go along for the ride.
There is no doubt people get the government they deserve. It likely won’t be different this time.
great point.
Good news is, the morons who vote for Lying Crooked Hellary will support her whorish wallstreet ways and go bankrupt and… they will send their sons and daughters to die in Hellary’s illegal depraved aggression.
And then, they will be powerless and there will be less of them.
Jesus loves Hellary.
Yahweh loves Yahoo?
But other sons and daughters, who have less say in the matter, and less ability to avoid entering military service, Hillary/Wall Street’s economic devastation having obliterated any other chances at a normal successful life and career, will also die, painfully and beyond uselessly, for nothing but empire.
This is funny. un-intelligence director James Clapper is ranting out the typical VICHY perspective Wouldn’t Put It Past Palestinians to Fire at IDF soldiers from dictates like THIS GUY
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3867912/Israel-s-defence-minister-warns-war-Hamas-completely-destroy-them.html
Spitting in a man’s face or invading into his domain is an offence, it’s called TRESPASSING. Germany wanted to trespass into Russia. Mexico wants to trespass into the US. Israel wants to trespass into Palestine. The US wants to trespass into Asia, Honduras, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Syria.
It’s the same old crap from bully style relationship specialists in positions of power and authority who are, in reality, common thieves. We really need to keep these kleptos away from these positions. Wake up.
oh – and electing a wallstreet whore who is willing to do the bidding of wallstreet thieves and israeli thieves running their yinon to break up the middle east at your expense of money, productivity, the lives of your sons and daughters and your entire future, is a good idea?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3870192/Russia-unveils-image-terrifying-Satan-2-missile-Super-nuke-destroy-area-size-FRANCE.html
yeah – see how many times you can slap russia’s face and get them to turn the other cheek.
Hellary Clinton is insane
and BTW, she wants to draft women – equality you know.
A Wall Street war mongering whore describes Hellary so perfectly.
Intelligence? What intelligence? And why would U.S. planes be threatening the forces of another country that is nowhere near its own country? If the threat is actually a threat and Clapper seems to take that as a given then the fault for whatever happens is obviously that of the U.S. Also, Clinton does not have either the intention or the ability to negotiate with Russian leaders, present or future.
Perhaps, but “not wittingly”. Lmao.
Mr. Emmons
Putin has simply outmaneuvered Obama in Syria from the moment that he talked Obama out of retaliating against Assad for using chemical weapons – and then Assad continued to use them with impunity. In Aleppo, the Russians have been bombing Hospitals, clinics and targeting civilians. Amnesty International and the UN have accused Russia of war crimes. Additionally, the Russians brought in the S-300 and S-400 defensive missile systems upping the ante in Syria gambling that the US will be deterred.
Creating a no fly zone is clearly a dangerous proposition – for Russia and the US. Already Turkey shot down a Russian plane for violating Turkish air space. It’s unlikely that Hillary will take that step, however, she certainly could increase sanctions on the Putin regime. When she becomes President, she certainly will be looking at various options – and she might have some input from the Clinton-supporting neocons disgusted by the misuse of US power by the inept Obama administration.
Clinton won’t become President Russians as Wikileaks are taking her apart, and the US public don’t want a corrupt, pay for play, war pig as the next President. The public are also tired of never ending war,and realise that the US can no longer afford the elites, their wars for profit, and the widening inequality that their selfish greed has caused.Time for change – Trump is not perfect, but he is the only way to register a big Fuck You to the current administration and to the elites they have served.
Hellary Clinton is clearly insane along with being a wallstreet whore, a dedicated liar, an orchestrater of genocide, murder, coups, and running a criminal enterprise using a front organisation to recruit political candydates in other countries who are willing to sell their countries out with the TPP.
But Jesus loves her barrabas. You wouldn’t deny that would you?
Oddly enough, it turns out it was the rebels using chemical weapons, not the Assad administration. And it’s the US that bombs hospitals, clinics and civilians and then calls it “collateral damage” or an “oopsie”. Meanwhile, Russia was invited in by the Syrian government while the US is engaged there illegally under international law.
It seems that you have a lot of facts wrong. I wonder why that is.
dont you “know” already craigsummers?
nevermid him…
he is the typical “bad putin, bad assad” and the old “great america” the “world police” stuff…
look this comment:
“How do you tell the difference between a radical leftist and a Russian-bot? That is not an easy question to answer. Their anti-Americanism is identical. Indeed, it can sometimes be really difficult to distinguish a radical leftist from a white supremacist. Both promote many of the same Jewish conspiracy theories. A white supremacist promotes racism while the underlying philosophy of the far left is extreme anti-racism – and that is one of the main differentiating characteristics online (although many racists will attempt to hide that behind anti-Jewish bigotry).
A Russian-bot is difficult to distinguish from an extreme leftist because they assume many of the same radical positions. The goal is to influence US policy with propaganda. Russian-bots will never admit they are from Russia. I have yet to post to anyone at the Guardian or the Intercept that (proudly) admits they are from or support Russia. Some positions of Russian-bots on current events:
1. A democratically elected government of Ukraine was overthrown in a US sponsored coup.
2. The referendum in Crimea was free and fair. The people of Crimea chose freely to leave Ukraine.
3. Crimea was always a part of Russia.
4. Russia is protecting ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.
5. Russia didn’t shoot down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17
6. Nazis are running the Ukraine government
7. The US is supporting Nazis in Ukraine
8. Assad is fighting the “war on terror”.
9. Assad didn’t use chemical weapons.
10. The Russians didn’t attack the aid convoy.
11. The opposition in Syria are ALL terrorists.
12. The US is supporting the jihadists/terrorism in Syria (rather than bombing them).
13. The US created ISIS.
14. There is no proof that Russia bombed the UN aid convoy”
speechless!
Jack, that’s about right. There is probably propaganda on both sides. But let’s examine some simple facts: In 2001, Congress authorized president Bush to pursue perpetrators of 9/11.
Afghanistan was probably justified.
Iraq had no connection to 9/11 and was no threat to us.
Libya had no connection to 9/11 and was no threat to us.
Syria had no connection to 9/11 and was no threat to us.
How else to explain these regime changes other than American imperialism? If you can grasp those basic facts, it should help you decide which version of the narrative is more likely to be true.
Jack
1. A democratically elected government of Ukraine was overthrown in a US sponsored coup.
2. The referendum in Crimea was free and fair. The people of Crimea chose freely to leave Ukraine.
3. Crimea was always a part of Russia.
4. Russia is protecting ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.
5. Russia didn’t shoot down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17
6. Nazis are running the Ukraine government
7. The US is supporting Nazis in Ukraine
8. Assad is fighting the “war on terror”.
9. Assad didn’t use chemical weapons.
10. The Russians didn’t attack the aid convoy.
11. The opposition in Syria are ALL terrorists.
12. The US is supporting the jihadists/terrorism in Syria (rather than bombing them).
13. The US created ISIS.
14. There is no proof that Russia bombed the UN aid convoy”
Lets look at the three obvious lies by Putin (i.e., RT) – the Russians didn’t attack the aid convoy; Russia didn’t shoot down Flight MH17; and in addition, Putin denied that the Russian military was on Ukraine soil. Finally the CIA will eventually prove that Russia hacked the DNC (which the chronic liar Putin denied). However, we all know Putin has a great deal of “credibility”):
A. Putin denied that Russia was responsible for shooting down the Malaysian airline over Ukraine (NYT):
“…….A Dutch-led investigation has concluded that the powerful surface-to-air missile system used to shoot down a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine two years ago, killing all 298 on board, was trucked in from Russia at the request of Russian-backed separatists and returned to Russia the same night…….”
B. Putin denied bombing the aid convoy in Syria (AJ):
“……..”The air forces of Russia and Syria did not conduct any strikes against the UN aid convoy in the southwestern outskirts of Aleppo,” defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said in a statement……. Konashenkov said the attack the previous night doesn’t appear to have been from an air strike.…….”
However a study of satellite photos led the UN to a different conclusion:
“…….Analysis of satellite imagery of a deadly attack on an aid convoy in Syria last month showed that it was an air strike, a UN expert said on Wednesday……”
C. Putin lied when he said the Russian military was not on Ukraine soil (Telegraph):
“……..Vladimir Putin admitted to deploying Russian military specialists to eastern Ukraine on Thursday, dropping nearly two years of denials that Russian servicemen were involved in the conflict there……”
The propaganda in 1-14 above is just RT talking points meant for home consumption as well as for the anti-American far left in the west. Each one can be refuted.
Agree with you completely! Syria was no threat to the United States. We have no moral or legal right to be there.
Another chemical attack by Assad (Jerusalem Post, today):
“…….The White House on Saturday condemned the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian government after an international inquiry found its forces responsible for a third toxic gas attack in Syria’s civil war…….The fourth report from the 13-month-long inquiry by the United Nations and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), the global chemical weapons watchdog, blamed Syrian government forces for a toxic gas attack in Qmenas in Idlib governorate on March 16, 2015………In August, the third report by the inquiry blamed the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad for two chlorine attacks – in Talmenes on April 21, 2014 and Sarmin on March 16, 2015 – and said Islamic State fighters had used sulfur mustard gas……..”
That is three reports of Assad using chemical weapons. Amnesty International reported the intentional targeting of hospitals by Syrian and Russian war planes (Amnesty International March 3, 2016):
“………Russian and Syrian government forces appear to have deliberately and systematically targeted hospitals and other medical facilities over the last three months to pave the way for ground forces to advance on northern Aleppo, an examination of airstrikes by Amnesty International has found……Even as Syria’s fragile ceasefire deal was being hammered out, Syrian government forces and their allies intensified their attacks on medical facilities……“Syrian and Russian forces have been deliberately attacking health facilities in flagrant violation of international humanitarian law. But what is truly egregious is that wiping out hospitals appears to have become part of their military strategy,” said Tirana Hassan, Crisis Response Director at Amnesty International……”
“……..It seems that you have a lot of facts wrong. I wonder why that is……”
I’m not sure what you are complaining about. The US is bombing ISIS and al-Nusra. So you are completely full of shit.
Thanks.
Just disregard everything Summer’s posts. It’s a complete waste of your time!
“…….Just disregard everything Summer’s posts. It’s a complete waste of your time! [besides, he is right]…..” my addition in brackets
“…and she might have some input from the Clinton-supporting neocons disgusted by the misuse of US power”
How can you even type that with a straight face?? The neocons are the voice of reason (and not the cause of most of this crap in the ME)? LOL.
Go away.
“…….The neocons are the voice of reason (and not the cause of most of this crap in the ME)? LOL…..”
It’s irrelevant what you think of them. I just pointed out that they could have some influence on President HRC.
“How can you even type that with a straight face??”
shameless liars do!
Good ole’ Yankee saber rattling it will only get worse. what is hell is wrong with the public? Every time I hear someone tell me they watch the “news”, I want to throw up. Lies,lies and more lies.
Clapper – wasn’t this the guy that lied to congress ?
So here we have an accomplished liar, with the President’s pants on fire, whipping up some well timed Russian hysteria to divert attention from the latest incredibly damaging Wikileaks Podesta release.
Such a credible source
Clapper didn’t actually lie to Congress about PRISM. Congress already knew about PRISM before that scandal broke out, remember?
The question that interests me more is what is going to happen when the Russians (or even the Syrians) shoot down an Israeli commercial airliner.
You mean like when the US shot down Iran air flight 655 ? :
http://ahtribune.com/history/1037-iran-air-flight-655.html
Or when the Russians shot down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17?
Why are Israeli commercial airliners flying over Syrian airspace? That seems dumb.
In hopes one gets shot down so the eternal “victims” can all out launch on Syria.
The “moderates” have been getting manpads (guess on whose approval?) – yes, from the same exceptional country: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/aleppo-must-not-fall-us-preparing-flood-city-anti-air-missiles-154690394
Expect great things falling from the skies — and not Syria only — courtesy the war-profiteering idiots blubbering about “democracy on the march.”
Wow. That IS exceptional even by US standards of being stupid with military assistance. You’d think a country that loves to fly over battle zones and drop bombs without worry would know better than to hand out anti-aircraft missiles!
I wasn’t suggesting by the way that Israeli passenger planes fly over Syria … just, the whole geography over there is so small, it seems like a missile could shoot straight over the border and find something to take down. Of course, if you hand out anti-aircraft missiles like candy, there’s also a chance one of them might walk a little closer than that.
Sick of all the bullshit demonizing Russia -well timed again though just as Wikileaks released Podesta enails eighteen. What type of a democracy is the USA when the President lies to the public ?
TYT’s Jimmy Dore: Democrats Are Restarting The Cold War To Hide From WikiLeaks
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/24/tyts_jimmy_dore_democrats_are_restarting_the_cold_war_for_political_benefit.html
Trump being elected President is going to represent the biggest fuck you ever to the corrupt and criminal US Government, and all its elite owners.
““I wouldn’t put it past them to shoot down an American aircraft if they felt that was threatening to their forces on the ground,” Clapper said during a talk at the Council of Foreign Relations.”
Typical Clapper crap. It wasn’t so long ago that Turkey shot down a Russian plane near their border; I don’t recall Putin retaliating. Criminals like the Big Lying Crapper are of an exceedingly low moral character and should be locked up as a danger to humanity.
he’s a real stall wart.
The Syrians and Russians have every right to shoot down US and NATO aircraft entering all of the Syrian airspace ‘No Fly Zone’. More than that, they have every right to attack US and NATO ground forces illegally in Syria as well. This is recognised under International Law.
It doesn’t matter what Clapper believes, and what will happen in reality. If Clinton is elected, it will matter what she and her neocon military and state establishment believe, which has little to do with reality. There will be no “realist discussions”, but rather a bunch of clusterfuck master of the world neocons making fantasy points against and to each other about what levels of mass violence to use.
By some indications, Clinton believes that Putin is a paper tiger given a policy paper she distributed to her staff in 2012. And the same position paper clearly outlined that Hillary’s aggressive stance against Assad is not based on any humanitarian concerns but rather the security of Israel. Assad could kill as many people as he wants, but if he is seen as dangerous to Israel, then screw it, let Sunni-based ISIS take over Syria. Given Hillary’s stated rabid support for Israel, there will be no compromise in the immediate removal of Assad.
Plus we have Clinton’s obsessive need on foreign policy and war to prove she has the biggest violent dick in the room. No little tin horn dictator like Putin is going to fck with her and get away with it. After all, she is the now famous Killer of Qaddafi.
But there is some divine irony and intervention here. To defend and protect Al Queda in Aleppo, Clinton and the idiots in NATO by all indications are ready to extend a massive and deadly conflict. Osama bin Laden surely must have a proverbial smile in his watery grave. Let the West destroy. Heaven help us all.
Of course, no one needs defending and protection more than al Qaeda. After all, they gave us 9/11. And for that, and that gift of the unending war on terror they bestowed upon the nation, Hillary is coming out in her best Christian, turn-the-other-cheek mode, for her al Qaeda allies.
perhaps all that is needed to quell Hillary’s macho, hyper-aggressive tendencies, might be an offer of a sex change operation for her… perhaps she’d feel more fulfilled as a man, and wouldn’t need to murder tens or hundreds of thousands to “prove” that she is.
or more likely, she’d be a warmongering, homicidal sociopath no matter what final meat avatar was made for her
They Russians were invited in ,the Americans are in Syria illeglly so I guess they would be within their rights to shoot down U.S. war planes.
Especially when America bombs the Syrian army who are fighting the US-backed Islamist opposition militias :
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/09/19/deir-s19.html
US F-18s in Russian colors
https://www.rt.com/viral/362321-us-jets-russian-colors/