On the day a California jury sentenced 25-year-old Irving Ramirez to die, Dionne Wilson went out to a bar to celebrate. “We had a major party,” she told me. Ramirez had shot and killed her husband, Dan, in 2005 — the first Alameda County cop to be murdered in the line of duty in almost 40 years. The district attorney tried the case himself; when the death sentence came down two years later, Wilson felt satisfied she could finally move on with her life.
But the next day, a feeling of letdown began to sink in. “I was supposed to wake up in the morning with this newfound freedom,” Wilson said. “And I didn’t. And I kept waiting and waiting and waiting. And it never came.” Wilson had pushed for the death penalty, although she understood Ramirez wouldn’t be executed anytime soon. “Everybody in California knows that when you get on death row you’re more likely to die of old age,” she said. “Everyone knows that. That really wasn’t the issue.” The sentence was supposed to be the thing that healed her. “It was supposed to be my justice.” Instead, she felt lost and angry.
“That’s when my whole worldview started to unravel,” Wilson said. More than vengeance, she realized she wanted answers. She wanted to know why people do such harm to others. And she needed desperately for something positive to come from her loss.
Wilson embarked on an “investigative journey,” exploring Buddhism and studying forgiveness. Then, on the fifth anniversary of her husband’s death, she sat down to finish a letter she had started many times. “Dear Irving,” she wrote. “I thought that this day should be the one that I put all my fears and expectations aside and just keep writing so I can tell you a few things.” Wilson told Ramirez that she did not hate him anymore. She had despised him for a long time, but now that hatred was hurting her more than it could ever hurt him. So she forgave him. “I’m pretty confident that you didn’t envision your life turning out this way,” she wrote. And then she told Ramirez she was sorry: “I deeply regret my part in making people see you as less than human.”
Wilson tracked down Ramirez’s attorney, who was stunned — she had never seen such a thing in all her years representing people on death row. A different lawyer later helped Wilson arrange a visit to the women’s prison in Chowchilla. The experience was life altering, awakening her to the abuse, neglect, and trauma so common among people behind bars. Today, Wilson is a full-time criminal justice reformer, practicing restorative justice and continuing her prison visits. Although it’s a life she never imagined, it is also the positive outcome she craved: a chance to disrupt cycles of violence by helping others address their own trauma. “I want to heal that,” she says. “Before people twist off and kill someone’s husband, their brother, their son.”
Ramirez never wrote back to Wilson — his lawyers likely cautioned against it. But curled up on her couch in mid-September, alongside her two dogs, she spoke about him with compassion. She feels particular empathy for his mother, who had brought him as a child from El Salvador to escape civil war. Wilson never looked her way during the trial, she was so focused on Ramirez. But now, with an adult son of her own, she imagines how much his mother must suffer at the fear of her child being killed by the state. “She has already lost Irving to death row,” she said. “For her pain to be magnified in my name — I can’t live with that.”

James Tensuan
The Yes on 62 campaign has amplified these voices as Election Day approaches. Last week, it released two ads. One features Wilson; the other features Beth Webb, whose sister, Laura, was killed in a 2011 massacre at a hair salon in Seal Beach, by a man named Scott Dekraai. Webb’s grief has been compounded by frustration over an unfolding scandal within the Orange County District Attorney’s Office, involving the sweeping misuse of jailhouse informants. The misconduct has made national headlines, derailing the Dekraai case and dragging out Webb’s ordeal. “I’ve already had to face him in court almost 50 times,” Webb says about her sister’s killer in the Prop 62 ad. For abolitionists, who often point to the burdens represented by long capital cases, the snitch scandal in Orange County is a reminder of the error and corruption that make death sentences not worth the risk.
Convincing voters won’t be easy. Polls still show wide support for the death penalty in California — a survey in September found 51 percent of voters opposed to Prop 62, 40 percent in favor, and 9 percent undecided. In fact, it was just four years ago that voters rejected a different abolitionist measure, Proposition 34, or the Savings, Accountability, and Full Enforcement for California (SAFE) Act. Spearheaded by Death Penalty Focus — whose longtime director, Mike Farrell, is the official proponent behind Prop 62 — the 2012 initiative was tailored largely to conservatives, emphasizing that people on death row would have to work to pay restitution to victims after their sentences were commuted, while providing tens of millions of dollars for police and prosecutors to “get more murderers and rapists off the streets.” The SAFE Act was defeated by a narrow margin: 52-48.
Yet much has changed in the past four years. In 2014 a U.S. district judge declared California’s death penalty unconstitutional, calling it a punishment “no rational jury or legislature could ever impose: life in prison, with the remote possibility of death.” A subsequent poll found support for the death penalty in California at its lowest in 50 years. Nationally, momentum has continued to build toward abolition. The same year the SAFE Act failed, Connecticut abolished its death penalty, with Maryland following in 2013. In a particularly extraordinary move, last year the Nebraska legislature overrode a governor’s veto to overturn its death penalty law; voters will face a ballot initiative on November 8 seeking to repeal the repeal. Alongside a steady decline both in executions and new death sentences year after year, exonerations have continued apace: In the relatively short time since the defeat of the SAFE Act, 15 people have been exonerated from death row across the country.Abolitionists are hopeful that the landscape has shifted enough in California to reverse the narrow margin that defeated the SAFE Act, turning it in their favor. But this time, they face a new barrier, a pro-death penalty ballot measure that was not a factor in 2012. Proposition 66 — or the Death Penalty Reform and Savings Act — seeks to preserve capital punishment and restart executions by revamping the system from top to bottom. At the heart of the measure, backed by prosecutors, police, and prison guard unions, is a vow to deliver on California’s unkept promise of closure for victims, by slashing the long delays between a killer’s conviction and death. The campaign has rolled out emotionally charged videos of its own: In one recent ad, a woman named Sandra Friend holds up a framed photograph of her 8-year-old son, Michael, who suffered a torturous sexual assault and murder after being abducted on his way home from school in 1996. “I am living a parent’s worst nightmare,” she says, urging voters to vote “yes” on the measure.
But critics accuse Prop 66 of peddling false promises, describing it as a poorly written measure that would create a whole new set of problems, including raising the risk of executing innocent people. Indeed, while the text can be hard to understand, it was clearly designed with finality rather than fairness in mind — opponents are not wrong to warn that it would make California “more like Texas.” Under Prop 66, post-conviction proceedings would be moved from the backlogged California Supreme Court to the same trial courts that handed down the death sentence in the first place. These courts, whose judges and clerks have never reviewed capital habeas appeals in California, would be tasked with swiftly appointing lawyers to handle habeas petitions (a process that currently takes years), in part by expanding the pool of available attorneys to include those who do not usually represent people on death row. Lawyers would face a one-year deadline to investigate and file habeas petitions — currently they have three years — except where there is “a substantial claim of actual innocence,” in which case they would get two years, tops.
Elsewhere amid the myriad provisions in Prop 66 is language that comes from an unlikely place: “Some of it was taken straight out of Prop 34,” one co-author told me, smiling at the irony. The SAFE Act’s work and restitution requirement, for example, was written into Prop 66 almost verbatim, except that it would apply to people on death row. Awkwardly, Prop 62 contains the same provision carried over from Prop. 34, the only other difference being the percentage of prison wages going to restitution: Prop 62 would allocate 60 percent; Prop 66 promises 70 percent.
Indeed, with their shared public safety frame, Prop 62 and Prop 66 can look disconcertingly similar at first glance. The title for the former — “Justice That Works Act” — could easily apply to the latter, which promises to “Mend, Not End the Death Penalty.” Polls suggest voters may actually be confused about the two measures; a Capitol Weekly survey in late October found that while 92 percent of voters who identify as anti-death penalty say they plan to vote for Prop 62, “40 percent of those same anti-death penalty voters are casting ballots for Proposition 66.” Californians could conceivably vote “yes” on both. If both measures pass, the one with the most “yes” votes wins.
To attack Prop 66 head-on, activists have launched a third campaign: No on 66. Led by many of the same advocates behind Prop 34, it is nonetheless separate from Yes on 62, with its own communication operations, endorsements, and events. The week I was in California, a press conference at the Los Angeles ACLU offices featured Barry Scheck of the Innocence Project, California exoneree Shujaa Graham, and relatives of Cameron Todd Willingham, who warned voters about the risk of wrongful executions. Days later, a separate event held by Yes on 62 featured 17 death row exonerees from across the country.
Although No on 66 works effectively in tandem with Prop 62, the separate campaigns also reveal fissures within the anti-death penalty movement. Some activists I spoke to have chosen to vocally support No on 66 while holding back on Prop 62. The tension dates partly back to the Prop 34 campaign; abolitionist critics pushed back against the SAFE Act’s conservative framework and law-and-order provisions. An activist whose husband is on death row at San Quentin pointed out at the time that people serving life without parole already pay restitution to victims while earning as little as 15 cents an hour — “One might title this initiative, ‘End the death penalty and replace it with slavery.’” In a growing debate beyond just California, others warned against embracing life without parole as the default alternative to executions, with Texas death penalty lawyer David Dow arguing that the sentence “denies the possibility of redemption every bit as much as strapping a murderer to the gurney and filling him with poison.” Particularly sobering was a survey conducted by the Campaign to End the Death Penalty, which sent questionnaires to 200 people on California’s death row in advance of the 2012 election. Of 50 who replied, 47 opposed the SAFE Act, even though its passage would mean they no longer faced execution. Central among their concerns was the automatic loss of their state assigned post-conviction attorneys, which would be a devastating blow to habeas appeals, especially for those with innocence claims.
But this year is different. The threat posed by Prop 66 has largely unified abolitionists behind Prop 62. In a new round of surveys sent by the CEDP to California’s death row, respondents have widely backed it as well. While people serving life without parole in California still warn that Prop 62 promotes a different kind of death sentence, others argue that the ends clearly justify the means. For Wilson, who would never deny the power of redemption, it is a question of priorities as well as what is realistic: “We have to stop a system that actively kills people. That’s it. There is no way that the public would go for taking people from death row and giving them the possibility of parole someday. That ain’t gonna happen. Nobody is brave enough to do that.”

Photo: Eric Risberg/AP
Today, the same people responsible for bringing the death penalty back to California are among its harshest critics. Ron Briggs, who pushed the ballot measure that vastly expanded the death penalty in 1978, is a supporter of Prop 62. So is the man who actually wrote the 1978 ballot measure in question, an attorney named Donald Heller. Not only does Heller consider his law to have been misinterpreted and overused, as he told me last January, he is certain it led to the execution of an innocent man.
For others, who did not play a role in its design, applying the death penalty in practice has turned them against it. Darryl Stallworth worked as an Alameda County deputy district attorney for 15 years, leaving the office in May 2007 — just two months before the death sentence came down for Irving Ramirez. Now Stallworth is a criminal defense attorney, working out of a dimly lit office in downtown Oakland.

Darryl Stallworth speaks about his support for Proposition 34, the SAFE Act, in 2012.
Photo: SafeCalifornia
Doubts crept in from the beginning. There was the recording of victim impact statements, a painful process in which grieving relatives shared their trauma — “just sad, sad things,” he said. “But I told them what I think a lot of people tell them. … ‘This is gonna make you feel better, you’re gonna get some closure.’ ‘Hang in there, this is gonna be OK.’ But in doing that, I was asking myself, ‘Are you really gonna be OK? Is this really gonna bring you closure?’”
Then there was jury selection, which lasted three months. As Stallworth gave out questionnaires, he began to realize the enormity of what he was asking people to do — to be “intimately involved in the process of executing someone.” He saw his own anxiety reflected in many potential jurors. “I hadn’t developed that place where I think prosecutors have to go, where you know, ‘I’m putting this person on death row, I want to kill them. This person is a monster.’ It started to feel like in order for the jury to legitimately consider executing somebody, they had to find them to be inhuman. And I had to see that the same way. And I struggled with that.”
Many of Stallworth’s misgivings had to do with the defendant’s age and background. The young black man was barely out of his teens; like many people who end up on death row, “he had lived a life that was a cycle of violence,” Stallworth said. “His mother was an alcoholic. She was in jail when he was born, never raised him. He was on the streets as a juvenile.” Stallworth remembers being determined to empanel a jury of his peers, only to struggle with that, too. “A lot of people of color don’t have jobs that are gonna pay them to sit for weeks or months. … You wind up getting this, most often, conservative group of people that are either retired or work for the government.”
Stallworth ultimately won a guilty verdict. But by then, he had been transformed. He held back from the dehumanizing rhetoric often used to demand a death sentence, simply asking jurors to weigh the aggravating circumstances against the mitigating ones. After a week of deliberations, the jury came back with a sentence of life without parole. “I’d lost the biggest case in my career,” Stallworth said, “but I had learned more than I ever could have imagined.”
Stallworth left the DA’s office soon afterward. A few years later, he was invited to lunch by a lawyer with the ACLU. “I don’t know how she figured that I might not have been all the way on board with what I had been doing,” he said. But he found himself sharing his story for the first time. Stallworth was asked to join the Prop 34 campaign. Knowing he would take heat from his former colleagues, he decided to do it anyway, and continued on to speak out on behalf of Prop 62. It would have been “cowardly” to remain silent given everything he knew, he said — and as a black man, he felt he had no choice.
Hundreds of miles south of Oakland, one of Stallworth’s most vocal opponents works in a small, windowless office in the heart of Los Angeles. In the downtown LA County Justice Center, Deputy District Attorney Michele Hanisee sits at a desk surrounded by case files laying out sex crimes and violent acts against children. On top of a stack of boxes sits a large poster that she designed. It bears the smiling faces of 14 young homicide victims, reading on the bottom: “227 children were murdered by the inmates now on death row.”
Hanisee is the president of the Association of Deputy District Attorneys for LA County, a position that keeps her especially busy these days. The union opposes initiatives like Prop 57 — an upcoming ballot measure to reform parole — as well as Prop 62, against which she is a leading voice. Hanisee has worked in the office for 16 years, about the same amount of time Stallworth spent as a deputy district attorney up north. But she shows no signs of stopping. As a prosecutor, she said, she has “the incredible luxury of always getting to do the right thing.”
White, blond, and raised in LA County, Hanisee’s experience runs parallel to Stallworth’s in one respect. “The first time you ever work on a death penalty case, that’s when you have to decide your feelings about the death penalty,” she said. “Until that moment, it’s purely hypothetical.” Her first capital case was the murder of a woman named Julie Cross, “the first female Secret Service agent killed in the line of duty.” As part of her job, she listened to the phone calls placed from jail by the defendant, who had been previously convicted of multiple murders. “I remember listening to this man’s calls with his young son. And he was saying, ‘Son, I’d kill a man for you’ — this was his display of affection for his son.” In all the capital cases she has prosecuted, Hanisee said, the killers have not only shown a lack of remorse — “They actually revel in the suffering they caused.”

Michele Hanisee of the Association of Deputy District Attorneys of Los Angeles County speaks during a public hearing on Jan. 22, 2016, in Sacramento, California.
Photo: Rich Pedroncelli/AP
Like everyone else, Hanisee concedes that the state’s current death penalty system is untenable. After defeating the SAFE Act in 2012, she and her colleagues agreed that “either we have to fix it or get rid of it. Not just be in this ridiculous stalemate where no one’s happy with what’s going on.” Prop 66 is “very complicated,” she admits, but she flatly rejects the notion that it is unworkable, saying its critics have probably not read the initiative. She has no patience for the warnings about inexperienced attorneys saddled with habeas appeals; if such lawyers don’t want capital cases, “then go get a different job and let somebody who will do this work take the money from the government.” As far as the practical problem of how on earth to address the backlog of people awaiting execution, she said, “I don’t think the goal is to clear death row. That would be perverse.” The goal, she said, “is to carry out the judgment of the juries of the citizens of this state in a reasonably prompt manner. But no one is suggesting that you should rush it and risk making mistakes. No one is suggesting that.”
Yet Hanisee is less clear-eyed when it comes to the systemic problems that plague the criminal justice system, whether proceedings are rushed or not. She refused to concede that California has ever sent an innocent person to die; when I cited a widely accepted tally of three death row exonerations in California to date, she said, “or questionably, none.” Even well-documented problems like racial bias are a “non-issue” as far as she is concerned. “All I know is my office never considers the race of the defendant.” While stressing that much of what is labeled “prosecutorial misconduct” is actually simple error, Hanisee did at least acknowledge the ongoing problems in Orange County, stressing that her office has protections guiding the use of jailhouse informants. But she took umbrage at the claim that such problems, paired with Prop 66, could result in the bad outcomes seen in more notorious death penalty states. “I don’t like being compared to Texas and Oklahoma,” she said. “This is California.”

With his wife, Raquel Herr, by his side, Steve Herr points his finger toward Daniel Wozniak, on trial for the murder of his son, Samuel, as he speaks in Superior Court on Sept. 23, 2016, in Santa Ana, California.
Photo: Mark Rightmire/The Orange County Register/AP
On my last day in California, I met Steve and Raquel Herr, whose personal nightmare has been prolonged by the snitch scandal in Orange County. Retired teachers living in the affluent community of Anaheim Hills, they lost their only son — an Afghanistan war veteran named Sam — to a shocking murder in 2010. The killer, a community actor named Dan Wozniak, dismembered and decapitated their son, taking the stage in a play and attending a cast party later that night. “I was praying that the cops would find my son’s head on my birthday,” Steve Herr said. “I’ll never forget that.”
Wozniak was caught quickly, but not before luring one of his victim friend’s, Julie Kibuishi, to his apartment, killing her and trying to frame Sam for the murder. Police got a confession within a week, yet it took more than five years just for the case to go to trial. On the day I met the Herrs in mid-September, Wozniak still had not been formally sentenced. “Our son was murdered six years and four months ago,” Steve Herr said. Of some 190 hearings, he had attended them all, with one exception: “There was one I didn’t, because Raquel had a heart attack.”
Unlike Beth Webb — the Prop 62 supporter who blames the Orange County DA’s Office for delaying justice for her sister — the Herrs blame the public defender who exposed the office’s misconduct for using their case to advance “his own agenda.” Like many victims’ relatives in high-profile cases, they deeply resent that their son’s murderer has stayed in the spotlight. “Everything is focusing on Daniel Wozniak’s rights. Where are Sam and Julie’s rights?” Steve Herr asked.
Herr, the more vocal of the two in pushing Prop 66, was never particularly political. “But what occurred to our son made me political,” he said. He called for a death sentence from the start — years before Prop 66 raised the possibility of swift, certain justice. Indeed, like Dionne Wilson when she supported a death sentence for her husband’s killer, Herr knew better than to expect a fast execution for Wozniak. “Chances are, we’re not going to be around when he’s put to death,” he said. But death sentence made him feel vindicated — it validated his loss. “A jury is made up of 12 different people from all walks of life. They got it in an hour. They saw the heinousness of what Wozniak did. Knowing that the jurors got it, that was enough to me.”
A week after I met the Herrs, Wozniak was officially sentenced to die. As he had every other time, Steve Herr sat in the front of the courtroom. News reports also noted something he did not mention in our interview: Herr visited his son’s killer multiple times in jail, “looking for answers,” but was not swayed by Wozniak’s apologies. “I’ll never forgive you,” Herr reportedly told his son’s killer, “but I might hate you less.” Whatever closure the sentence may bring, it will not necessarily hinge on the future of capital punishment in California.
I’ll be voting No on both of these. Makes absolutely no sense to speed up a system whereby some persons are innocent to be executed quickly. That’s just plain stupid.
Also, don’t agree with ending it.
The measure I would vote for is a Federal or out of state review of prosecution’s case and evidence against the defendant. There are too many instances of over-zealous prosecutors and wrongful convictions for my taste.
Federal Review is mandatory either pre or post sentencing.
How is review by the Feds going to accomplish anything? You mean those same Fed agencies like the FBI crime lab that overstated (read: concocted) evidence?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-forensic-hair-matches-in-nearly-all-criminal-trials-for-decades/2015/04/18/39c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html?wpmk=MK0000203
Talk about a non-solution.
“How is review by the Feds going to accomplish anything?”
Outside or independent review helps to ensure fairness and impartiality to an extent. Nothing is absolute. But the moment prosecutors know their work is going to be reviewed, their going to be more careful about prosecuting weak cases or cases with bogus evidence.
“You mean those same Fed agencies like the FBI crime lab that overstated (read: concocted) evidence?”
No, I mean the department of justice…DOJ. They are federal prosecutors. Or start an outside agency meant strictly for reviewing cases. A second independent office reporting to the State Supreme Courts, not the Executive offices (Governor’s office). FBI idiots are investigators. I’m not saying all prosecutors are criminals or engaged in criminal activity as you suggest. I’m merely saying that people behave better when they KNOW their work will be reviewed.
Do you realize that this article you posted actually supports my comment and position?
This article says the DOJ, after reviewing the FBIs work on hair analysis, found that 26/28 investigators overstated their evidence.
This is EXACTLY my point. Had that REVIEW been done at the start, this would have been discovered and 199 of the 200 suspected cases could have avoided these bad presentations of hair evidence.
BFD is this article somehow supports your position.
Want to be 100% sure that you’re not killing innocent people? Stop the morally indefensible act of state-sponsored killing.
Anything else is just designed to help you sleep better.
I’m considered an “OG-Palyer, being raised and still reside in South Central Los Angeles.
To begin, I profoundly dislike the now-commonly used cliche of; “South Central. (ref.: Rodney King induced riots and the media). Whereas historically, we referred to someone as living either on the east or west side of town. Unless, that person lived in the Projects, then name of the Project would substitute east or west.
When it comes to lengthy-terms of incarceration or the death penalty, I like others raised in similar conditions/surroundings held the same perspectives. This view among residents easily manifests itself by way of commonality in experiences with the judicial system and traditional physic of ‘we against them.
Thus I followed course by first having a friend on death row, other friends serving life in prison without the possibility of parol. Two, that were convicted from testimony of a jailhouse snitch and to say it lightly, two police officers that lied through their a#%. Something to this day, I still find troubling because the (mostly white) jurors snickered as officers were caught in lie after lie, but nevertheless rendered a guilty verdict.
Further as to leave on stone unturned, I myself have been incarcerated on four occasions encompassing nearly a decade and three quarters of my life in prison.
I mentioned all this in effort to show both familiarity with the topic and legitimize my opinion.
Re: opinion. I’m not sure how this can be legislatively accomplished but,, the only people allowed to vote in favor or against the death penalty should comprise of those who experienced lost of family or significant other through the finite interpretation of being murdered,, (in effort of fairness, immediate family only, or other if proven to have raised or had a substantial presence in that person[s] life).
That they and only they in my opinion deserve right of passage.
Otherwise, the determination of life or death rests solely on the extent (favorable or not) of media coverage, persuasive sympathies from members of the entertainment industry, religious figures or opportunistic politicians. Little if none do we hear from people in the middle, who if taken mathematically are the overwhelming majority.
In closing: As I perviously elaborated on my pedigree thus enabling entry to such an emotional topic.
My point of view principles changed when my grandmother was murdered at the hands of a purse snatcher. In her purse, eleven bucks. Not that he snatched her purse and stabbed her to death (ok, ugly as that was I could live with it) but he actually took the time and rapped her.. That I had a serious problem. How could he get-it-up for a seventy three year old woman with nine stab-wombs in her chest)
At trial I tossed and turned on what position to take. The defendant was no different than what I’ve known all my life. Looked the same, body languish the same, even the same “you-all tripping” look as I once held when the a guilty verdict came.
Therefore, I changed my position. Why should he live. What gives him the right to life. What gives him the right to correspond with someone, masturbate or defecate.
I’m aware there are those that say, “living on death row is like death”. I strongly differ.
Living on death row is just having anywhere to go. Its not as if the person is physically torched everyday whereas their ankles, legs and hands are broken.
Watching the look on his face as death enters its one-way door, just my grandmother is fairness.
It’s not designed for closure, as is the erroneously held perspective. Why,, what can it realistically close. The person is gone forever, period…
I am opposed to the death penalty – as a default option provided by someone which i have to pay for. Abortions are ok by me but there are those who do not want PUBLIC MONEY involved. Fine. It is the same with the death penalty. I do not want my tax money paying for someone else’s death. I also oppose foreign wars.
BUT in instances like yourself, if i understand you right, the option of capital punishment could and should be born by the offended. You pay the price, i do not. I am ok with that. I believe that 90% of the population would be ok with that.
However in any case, the guilt of someone convicted of murder, or any crime, must be without any doubt. Wrongful conviction is the biggest crime in America and it seems to be getting worse.
fyi – lawyers love capital cases because it makes their lifetime career as i understand it. white collar welfare, eh?
I would accept your opposition/opinion to the death penalty if in fact you were one of those affected. However, because that’s apparently not the case, your reply (respectfully) is merely a generality, somewhere in accordance with the media, legislators and politicians that is/was not a victim to its consequence. I tried both in describing my organs and experience to single out and emphasize the necessity of having only those affected the “right of passage”.
As for your position on the public not subsidizing the cost of execution. I’m fine with that, as would give me no greater pleasure than to watch the look on his face as I stabbed him nine times in the chest as he did my seventy three year old grandmother. Otherwise, because we a nation of laws (depending on financial status) I think you may run into obstacles trying to implement such a procedure.
Thanks for the reply
“Everything is focusing on Daniel Wozniak’s rights. Where are Sam and Julie’s rights?”
The rights of the living should take precedence over the rights of the dead, for the dead do not care. It’s simple, really. The death penalty isn’t “justice.” It’s vengeance, and it doesn’t leave you satisfied. I have trouble sympathizing with sociopaths, but the fact is, the death penalty serves no logical ends.
No Mike, the rights of the living do not take precedence when the living are the most heinous killers. Wozniak decapitated a man for a few bucks and killed another woman simply to make it look like Sam was the killer. He has no rights
It’s refreshing to see someone (you Bill B) dispense with the tripe regarding the deterrent effects of the death penalty and just get right down to what it’s really all about.
You sidestep the point. The death penalty is a form of vengeance. The only reason its categorized as a “penalty is procedure and rule of law.
In 157 instances, 12 people found a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and sentenced the person to death. Then, on average 10 years later, 157 people walked off death row with conclusive evidence of INNOCENCE.
Remember – those wrongfully convicted are VICTIMS, too. Where’s the DA support of those victims? Non-existent. No $200 gate money. Not even the services of parole. We just dump them back on the street and go after the next guy in pursuit of this flawed “justice.”
Our system is far from perfect. If we as a society are going to have a death penalty, we should start by fixing the problems that cause wrongful convictions. Require open discovery. Punish/fire prosecutors for misconduct. Provide training and resources to public defender investigators so they can discover evidence of innocence. Allow the defense to access CODIS so they can request testing and prove third party culpability in advance of trial.
There are countless other fixes that should be employed before we decide we’re okay to kill what might be an innocent person. If, and I say if because it’ll never happen, we fix our system, then we can have a discussion about the morality of taking another person’s life (eye for an eye). But we’re nowhere near that point and we likely never will be. Yes on 62. No on 66.
Benito is on the right track, but let’s put a finer edge on that. Instead of having a death penalty, during the sentencing phase of the trial or subsequent appeals we could just allow the families of the victims to exercise their right to bear arms in the courtroom. And if they shoot a defendant, we give them 95% or better discount on any court penalties, I mean Brock Turner sentencing standards. That way, it’s not state-sponsored murder, and the victims’ families get a much more satisfying sense of closure spattered all over their favorite courtroom clothes.
I mean really, what kind of religion believes that “Vengeance is mine, saith the state uncredentialled self-declared execution expert with a needle.” At least give vengeance back to the vengeful.
Another idea, courtesy of Wikipedia:
I was very disappointed when that film came out because they left out my favorite scene, where the protagonist takes his stolen jet airplane and flies it into the huge skyscraper they broadcast the games out of. That seemed like a really impressive idea, and I felt like they’d censored it out of fear that someone might think it was too good a plan. But hey, we had an extra 14 years of being fat dumb & happy after the bowdlerized film came out before somebody reminded us that pretending it can’t happen isn’t actually a way to keep it from happening!
That sounds familiar Wnt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield%E2%80%93McCoy_feud
“During an election day in Kentucky, the three McCoy brothers fought a drunken Ellison and his other brother; Ellison was stabbed 26 times and finished off with a gunshot. The McCoy brothers were initially arrested by Hatfield constables and were taken to Pikeville for trial. Secretly, Devil Anse Hatfield organized a large group of followers and intercepted the constables and their McCoy prisoners before they reached Pikeville. The brothers were taken by force to West Virginia, to await the fate of mortally wounded Ellison Hatfield and when Ellison died from his injuries, the McCoy brothers were killed by the Hatfields’ vigilante justice in turn: being tied to pawpaw bushes, where each was shot numerous times with a total of 50 shots fired. Their bodies were described as “bullet-riddled”.”
A few links from the Hatsfield-McCoys page has this
which i find dots connecting to today…
[1] the death penalty being a weapon of choice within & without the law
[2] the sheer violence inclination for whatever cause
[3] the participant connections to the H-M feud
[4] the thread that persists to private armies today, blackwater
[5] the current situation of mercenaries vs protesters in the DAKOTAS now
The Hatfield/McCoy conflict may be resolved but those aspects which fueled it seem to be alive and well enuf to keep capital execution alive and well in America
If Californians approve both these measures – kill people more quickly but abolish the death penalty – it will present an interesting puzzle for legislators. They could perhaps take a cue from other states, where police have been empowered to shoot suspects. This provides instant closure, while relieving the courts of the necessity of imposing a death sentence. Another solution would be to have Californians tried in Texan courts. Judges in Texas generally impose the death sentence before the trial even starts, which allows the appeal process to be initiated much sooner. So Californians could receive the speedy justice they crave, while keeping their own hands clean. But however it is finally resolved, everyone will agree the result is better than the current system. California has managed to put itself in the enviable position that any change they make is a positive one.
Killing another person as a “whatever” for wrong done to some person is an expression of a willingness to kill for another reason.
Those persons who favor killing another are expressing a willingness to kill another. Rationalise it any way you like – THOU SHALE NOT KILL is either a commandment or it is not, in your faith.
I don’t think Prop 62 was well crafted to win passage. Eventually we’re going prevail but better strategy is needed.
In theory one would expect the purveyors of justice to be the voices of level-headedness. They love to say no, the guy may have raped your daughter, but you can’t chop him off at the root, and if the guy burned down your house, you can’t burn down his. But with the death penalty all of a sudden they step out in front of the mob and cheer it on… provided, of course, they get to do everything themselves (with suitable compensation). How can they be ready to punish people for revenge killings, even as they carry them out? It becomes all about their power, and really, no one else’s.
So much emphasis on how the victim’s relatives feel and what they want is deeply misguided. What of the victims that have no relatives? Do their murderers deserve less punishment because no one grieves for them? When deciding on punishment, all that should matter is what is just. The wishes of the victim’s relatives – whether it’s vengeance or forgiveness – should have little or no bearing.
only a moron equates one death with another.
I can think of nothing better to add than the Bumper Sticker reading ” how does killing People who Kill People make Sense ?” Surely we need massive reform in our Criminal Justice System. One who kills being killed is irrational, where does the morality begin and end ?
Is there anything worse than taking a life? Yes, taking many lives. What is even worse is the use of torture in taking a life? And what is even more horrible is the use of torture upon many people before taking their lives.
So we go back and forth deciding on the death penalties relating to these various individuals from all kinds of backgrounds that have done heinous acts. Why don’t people give as much thought to what penalty war mongers in the likes of Hillary, Bush, Cheney and Kissinger should receive?
Why don’t people give more thought to the punishment of those that created our last financial meltdown due to their criminal Ponzi scheme? How many died as a result of that mess in the form of suicides, loss of healthcare, mental and physical break down, the destruction of friendships, marriages and families? How many are still suffering from the torture that goes along with being placed in poverty and endless debt. One low level bankster went to jail and the industry just paid tax deductible fines to be used against future year’s profits.
If we are going to consider the death penalty we need to have better representation of the mass murders involved.
it’s like oil and water.
there are 2 types of people on this planet
those who believe that human life is sacred
those who dont
there are 2 types of those who dont on this planet
….
You want to get more Americans to support the death penalty, you have to administer it like China does:
http://thediplomat.com/2014/11/china-overwhelmingly-supports-death-penalty-for-corrupt-officials/
Poor criminals given low-quality defense counsels, no, can’t support the death penalty for that. Revolving door bureaucrats taking payoffs for handing out lucrative government contracts? Hmmm… my moral opposition to the death penalty appears to be wavering!
The death penalty is indefensible on any grounds–legal or moral. The fact the “system of justice” is what it is in America ensures that innocent persons will be executed.
I’m hopeful that some day the US Supreme Court will revisit this issue and make the death penalty an artifact of America’s barbaric past.
If a grieving family or friends of a murder victim can’t find “closure” in the prospect of the killer of their loved one spending the rest of his/her days in what is tantamount to an inescapable metal dog kennel being fed through a slot until they either lose their mind or die of old age, then there is no “closure” to be had.
My uncle was murdered. His brother, my uncle, was shot 5 times and almost died attempting to take justice into his own hands and avenge his brother’s death.
We loved both of them, but the rest of my family members understood that what was done could never be undone, that human beings do horrible things to one another, that “justice” is imperfect, and that no one finds “closure” by clinging to hate and desire for revenge, or agitating for there be another body added to the count of your perception of “justice” via the death penalty.
I’ve always felt that “justice” was served in that the men responsible for my uncle’s murder could no longer hurt others after their sentences were imposed. That should be enough for most people. And for those who it isn’t I feel very very sorry for them, because they’ve just let the murderer wreck more people’s lives, which is a choice and a poor one in my humble opinion.
I’m not trying to diminish the pain a murderer causes to the loved ones of his/her victim. That pain never truly goes away. But it is possible to manage and make something positive come of it other than through revenge or retribution.
The pain victim (s) believe they feel is actually false and will never go away until false energy circular in time is broken-
The pain is false in human emotion because the source is false past time aka bitterness, regret, anger that are human labels of emotional non-forgiveness of a past, and so long as the false mental construct is allowed to be, then we have a false energy circular in perpetuity-
Equally pervasive is false future human emotional energy where victim cannot “face another day”, due to fear of future in a form where the past action remembered, results in a false energy of future fear thereby demobilizing the victim from taking any action, as long as the false energy circular remains in perpetuity-
Why is this so?
Because no thing happens yesterday, and no things actually happen tomorrow, THINGS actually happen in successive n o w s and to the extent one is absent of false thought in either time construct, and present in any given n o w dictates an unfolding of what often is referred to as their life-
Yep, we have 17 Props, some important like 62, and some are silly like Citizen’s United.
I happened to read a statement by MTC, defending their position against the USG severing ties with private prisons for housing Federal inmates. Along with a letter of Congressional support (six House Republicans, two from TX).
Thank you for writing about the props and this very important story. I would say 15 people exonerated is a very powerful statement, and I sympathize with survivors of sociopaths/psychopaths who may be irredeemable, but the bottom line truly seems like vengeance or retribution. Call it what you want, it ain’t closure.
killing someone is a unique talent. Not everyone can do that. On the battlefield one is thrust into a situation of self defence. For drug dealers who reject life and selfworth it’s just taking out the trash. For usurpers of power over others it’s a recipe of self defence and greed and lack of intelligence. For real innocent victims of murder, it’s some sort of payback re-balancing act. But, IT IS NEVER FREE. He was executed. He deserved it. Someone else did it. I wash my hands.
OK. You execute a murderer and you feel ok with that. But the price is the arrogance of self righteousness that you have to adopt. That’s a big price. And it carries over to all facets of one’s life and yet, these same victims (of the self righteous disease) do not feel deserving enough to take back what wallstreet robbed them of, or what gw bush robbed the country of. There’s a big price all right. Maybe it’s that life or living deserves some extinguishment and the supporters of life extinguishment deserve a little proof of their unworthiness.
Is it in poor taste to think that these people that want more/quicker executions are evil?
those vindicators who support the way of evil, evil enough
The death penalty is only for poor people, unless you happen to be a rich axe murderer.