After Donald Trump’s election emboldened white supremacists and inspired a wave of anti-Semitic hate incidents across the country, the Senate on Thursday took action by passing a bill aimed at limiting the free-speech rights of college students who express support for Palestinians.
By unanimous consent, the Senate quietly passed the so-called Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, only two days after it was introduced by Sens. Bob Casey, D-Pa., and Tim Scott, R-S.C.
A draft of the bill obtained by The Intercept encourages the Department of Education to use the State Department’s broad, widely criticized definition of anti-Semitism when investigating schools. That definition, from a 2010 memo, includes as examples of anti-Semitism “delegitimizing” Israel, “demonizing” Israel, “applying double standards” to Israel, and “focusing on Israel only for peace or human rights investigations.”
Critics have pointed out that those are political — not racist — positions, shared by a significant number of Jews, and qualify as protected speech under the First Amendment of the Constitution.
According to the draft, the bill does not adopt the definition as a formal legal standard, it only directs the State Department to “take into consideration” the definition when investigating schools for anti-Semitic discrimination under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act.
The memo’s definition — which is widely supported by Israeli advocacy groups — was intended for identifying anti-Semitic groups overseas. Even then, it came with caveats. Criticisms of Israel are only examples of possible anti-Semitism “taking into account the overall context,” and the memo concludes: “However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic.”
Attempts to adopt the definition as a standard for campus censorship have drawn criticism from civil rights groups, free speech advocates, newspapers, hundreds of academics, and even one of the definition’s crafters, who wrote a column last year arguing it should not be applied to campuses.
The bill approved by the Senate on Thursday was supported by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Jewish Federations of North America, and the Anti-Defamation League.
“The definition will have a severe chilling effect on campuses, and that is the explicit goal of the Israel advocacy organizations who promote it,” said Liz Jackson, an attorney with the group Palestine Legal. “Student activists for Palestinian rights already operate in a repressive environment. If this bill passes, they will face the specter of federal investigation simply for engaging in criticism of the Israeli government’s abusive policies.”
Campus activists are being subject to an increasingly broad censorship effort by Israeli-allied groups. Each year, Palestine Legal documents hundreds of instances of obstruction, censorship, or punishment of pro-Palestinian activism at colleges and universities.
In December 2015, for example, one student at George Washington University was ordered by campus police to remove a Palestinian flag from her window, and threatened with further disciplinary action. At other campuses, students have been suspended or threatened with expulsion for demonstrating against the Israeli occupation of the West Bank. The University of Illinois in 2014 fired a tenure-track professor for tweeting about Israel’s bombardment of Gaza.
Filing complaints with the Department of Education has been a favored tactic of groups including the Zionist Organization of America and the Brandeis Center, which have written letters to the department alleging that events like demonstrations and film screenings amount to “harassment” or “intimidation,” and create a “hostile environment on the basis of national origin” for Jewish students on campus.
The Department of Education has investigated and dismissed four such cases, against UC Irvine, UC Santa Cruz, UC Berkeley, and Rutgers University, ruling that “robust and discordant” expression is to be expected on a college campus, and that the events described “do not constitute actionable harassment.”
The investigations nonetheless amount to public relations victories for Israeli advocacy groups, who can circulate articles about how pro-Palestinian activists are under investigation for anti-Semitism, while the activists have to deal with the months-long burden of being under government investigation.
Civil rights groups are confident that if the Department of Education actually did use the State Department’s standard, the courts would quickly find it unconstitutional.
“If the Department of Education were to enforce this definition by restricting student speech critical of Israel, it would violate the First Amendment,” said Jackson. “The right to criticize a government — the U.S., Israeli, or any other government — is an enshrined constitutional freedom in our country. The Senate can’t legislate that away.”
Jewish groups opposed to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank were quick to denounce the bill.
“Instead of fighting the anti-Semitism entering the White House, this bill will go after 19-year-old students carrying protest signs against human rights abuses,” said Tallie Ben Daniel, academic program manager for Jewish Voice for Peace, in a statement. “This is not how to fight anti-Semitism, this is a recipe for restricting civil liberties like the right to criticize a government for its policies.”
It is unclear when the House will consider a counterpart bill.
Top photo: Demonstrators against the Israeli occupation of the West Bank in Chicago.
What a crock of propaganda. The only people emboldened are the Fake news generators on the left like all the Hate Group Hoaxers who have been caught in their lies that they were attacked by Trump supporters like Yasmin Seweid who want to spread the false narrative that racists are ’emboldened’ by a Trump victory because the crybabies on the left are having a full on temper tantrum.
What facts support claims that trump is anti-semetic? and Is Obama also a terrorist for sympathy towards BLM with their ongoing screams to kill cops? rhetorical.
The media’s collective smear campaigns are so moronic and desperate it is in fact terrifying and has deeply destroyed my trust in impartial independent reporting. i literally feel sickened by it all.
I guarantee most of those alleged antisemitic incidents were false flag Trotskyite provocations by zionist losers.
In fact,I have seen very little triumphant stuff from fellow Trump voters.Only relief we dodged the neolibcon bullet to our head in HRC.
Trump allegedly stirs up antisemitism but they largely target Hell Bitch and Sanders voters.
Amusing.
In 1897 Theodor Herzl said that what he had in mind was a sort of Jewish Rhodesia, and that’s sort of what the Zionist state has always been, It shouldn’t be considered deligitimizing or antisemitic to refer to it that way.
I have no problem with Jews as a group. AIPAC is dangerous.
I want to say fuck all you holocaust liars and you Jews in general. Jews are a parasitic people and a threat to all humanity.
TROLL!!!!
False flag Democrat posing as an anti-Semitic conservative.
This Senate Bill is an abomination and the Senators have no understanding of the difference between Racial or religious discrimination and political criticism. The criticism of Israeli policies that is prevalent on American and other university campuses is not religious intolerance and is not targeting Jews. It is rather political advocacy of Palestinian freedom and is well within the protections of the First Amendment. Why are the Senators so obtuse?
GilG
“…….More to the point would Mona support a Jewish lives matter in France because Jews in a Kosher grocery were targeted for being Jewish?……”
Forget Mona. The Intercept has yet to even acknowledge that a Kosher grocery market was targeted – or that four Jews were murdered. In fact, about three days after the attack on the Kosher market, co-founder of the Intercept, Jeremy Scahill wrote an article providing Awlaki a forum to spew his propaganda (grievances against the west). This has always been a favorite line with the Intercept – the west and Israel are the cause of terrorism:
“……….Awlaki told Yemeni journalist Abdulelah Haider Shaye in an interview for Al Jazeera a few weeks after the attempted attack: “I support what Umar Farouk has done after I have been seeing my brothers being killed in Palestine for more than sixty years, and others being killed in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And in my tribe too, U.S. missiles have killed” women and “children, so do not ask me if al-Qaeda has killed or blown up a U.S. civil[ian] jet after all this. The 300 Americans are nothing comparing to the thousands of Muslims who have been killed.”……….”
On a separate thread today, Greenwald reinforces that point of view by quoting General Petraeus (even as the Middle East self immolates):
“……..excessive U.S. support for the worst actions of the Israeli government endangers U.S. national security by alienating Arabs in the region and fueling support for anti-American terrorism…….”
The alt-left has always viewed the perpetrators of terrorist acts against Jews and the west as justified.
fun quiz time like x-word puzzle. What do some people find in common with these dates? (try to do this without lookups to test your basic knowledge).
15 april 1865
24 dec 1913
24 march 1933
15 may 1948
22 november 1963
8 june 1967
3 October 2008
This video show how completely in-human the IDF can be.
https://youtu.be/S8WK2TgruMo
“AN ISRAELI SOLDIER was arrested on Thursday after a rights group published clear video images of him shooting a wounded, immobilized Palestinian suspect in the head”
And then a huge section of Israel supported this soldier’s actions.
Deadheded
This kind of brutal support for murder is not limited to Israel. A Hamas-supported suicide bomber (April, 2016) attempted to murder Jewish passengers on a bus. Ironically, the bomber was the only one killed, but 20 passengers were injured. In addition, as reported by the Jerusalem Post:
“……A mass demonstration took place on Wednesday as hundreds marched to the yard near the house of the family of the Palestinian teenager suspected of carrying out Monday’s Jerusalem bus bombing in a show of support for the young martyr……”
Hundreds of Palestinians turned out in a show of support for a terrorist that targeted civilians for murder. Support for murder is not limited to Israel.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Herrsommer,
Thanks.
Thanks.
So after doing nothing for almost 8 years, and taking many extended vacations this year, the senate came up with this garbage. Is there any part of the constitution they haven’t eliminated yet?
Also, how will this reduce attacks on Jewish people? It seems they don’t care if Jewish people are harassed or abused physically. They seem to only care that Israel is never spoken about in any realistic way.
Good job government. I knew we paid you the big bucks for nothing.
Is this the display of retaining our rights to free speech on campus you are referring to? The feds are obviously seeing this issue differently than your own convictions. Free Palestine!?! Jail me for that…phewy!
If we had honest judges who were not cowards we could count on them to invalidate any law like this due to it being an unconstitutional First Amendment violation. With all the fascist and cowardly judges we have, not so much.
“Civil rights groups are confident that if the Department of Education actually did use the State Department’s standard, the courts would quickly find it unconstitutional.”
It is the good fortune of the post-911 State that the victims of its relentless repression of the heterodox are too weak, powerless, or intimidated to defend themselves. The few that have tried encounter a federal judiciary that either capitulates to the state or avoids confronting its crimes against the constitution by sophist doctrines of “standing,” “justiciability,” “political question,” and the like. The federal bench has abdicated; its judges play piano in the State’s whorehouse.
Why oh why does the Black Lives Matter Movement support BDS as if the Palestinian cause is akin to their own? Alan Dershowtiz informs us it’s because of antisemitism because of course he does.
If there should be BDS against Israel because a black man was murdered in Israel, then shouldn’t there be BDS against the USA because a black man was murdered in the USA?
That’s an incoherent question.
You support BDS against Israel because there was a racist crime in Israel.
Do you support BDS against the USA because there are racist crimes in the USA?
More to the point would Mona support a Jewish lives matter in France because Jews in a Kosher grocery were targeted for being Jewish?
Good question.
Gil, BLM doesn’t exist because of some racist crimes against African Americans: it goes much deeper than that. Don’t create stupid false equivalences.
There are plenty, plenty Jewish advocacy groups all throughout the West and there’s nothing stopping concerned Jews from forming more of them or supporting existing ones.
BLM on the other hand keeps getting smeared and maligned.
Gert,
1) Where did I say anything about why BLM exists or say anything that smeared or maligned it ?
2) The only one trying to create “false equivalences” was Mona. She was comparing an organization that was started because of police in the US getting away with shooting first and ask questions later when dealing with Black suspects, with crime in Israel by two teenage thugs who beat and killed a refugee and were immediately arrested and charged for their crimes.
3) Where did I say there was anything stopping Jewish advocacy groups? How many straw men can you put up in once post. I asked if Mona would join a JLM group.
The fact of the matter is whenever Mona gets humiliated on a thread, and believe me as high as the bar is on that it happens often, she goes to the top and posts totally unrelated negative stuff about Israel as her way of getting even with the evil Zionists who humiliated her.
That “humiliation” exists largely in your mind, Gil. Much like the ludicrous and irrelevant assertion that she’s unemployed (you seem to spend a lot of time here too) or should date Barrabas. Enough with your ‘holier than thou’ crap!
…was following up on Jack’s ludicrous question. You WERE creating a false equivalence there.
Gert,
1) Mona has said she is unemployed , I don’t recall my saying it.
2) How can asking a question be a false equivalence?
3) why won’t you answer my question about Mona’s post which was indeed a false equivalence?
4) Why don’t you address any of what I actually stated in my prior post, or at least admit you falsely accused me of things that you can’t back up.
5) I’ll cop to the holier than thou part.
Nah, BilG, you’re still less than pointless.
If you are so opposed to BDS, how is it that such an insensitive and disgusting comparison that you make is any help to your apparent cause unless you are seeking out spectacular like minded persons like yourself?
What ” insensitive and disgusting comparison?”
a real human being would not have to ask that question.
Get off my planet, please.
Yes.
What’s the connection? Are you kidding?
So, on the basis of a large part of the comments for this article, if we hold The Intercept to the same standard as it and most mainstream media hold Bannon and his Breitbart site, then The Intercept is an alt-something, bigoted, dog-whistling, hate-encouraging site?
No.
Absurd.
It’s a Crying Shame that ISIS (Israel State Illegitimate State) has a “Demonic Influence” over the most powerful country on the planet!
It’s nothing so wrong with people having “dual citizenship”, but it is INCREDIBLILY STUPID AND ASSININE to allow those who have “dual citizenship” to hold political office and make laws and policies that govern the lives of those majorities of US Citizens who DO NOT have dual citizenship! Their loyalty is duplicitous! Even the Bible says, “You cannot serve two masters, you will either love the one and hate the other!”
Zionist ( ISIS ) have their pimps (lobbyists and dual citizenship politicians, news & media mogels, Wall Street and Federal Reserve influence peddlers) pimping the US Government like a $2.00 hoe!
And I thought “pimping” was illegal throughout the World!
The above is not to be miss trued as anti-Semetic…
The above is to be anti-Stupid!
Pray for the “End of the zioDemonic Influence and the Pimping!”
Amen to the Amen!
it is INCREDIBLILY STUPID AND ASSININE to allow those who have “dual citizenship” to hold political office and make laws and policies that govern the lives of those majorities of US Citizens who DO NOT have dual citizenship!
i will be prescribing a NEW LAW to address this treasonous situation soon. It’s a bit complicated because it also involves any such practice or conspiracy to steal rights and one’s right to protect the country from pysical invasion and every one’s right not to be ocerthrown by those conspiring to enact the TPP. This is a big deal and it is a “root problem” as much as a boot sector virus or root kit.
if you want to think on this, consider the sacredness of the Bill of Rights, self defence, switzerland army, and the idea that you can be robbed and can only protest or petition to get back what you – and everyone else – were robbed of.
refer to this as The SACP Act
Sounds like something Donald might like,to go along with the lobbying ban.
I know I’d love it.
You cannot serve two masters,you will love the one and hate the other.Straight from the ziohorses mouth.
Most American dual citizens are Mexican-Americans.
Yeah right Jackie…
How many dual Mexican-Americans with dual citizenship hold positions in the US Congress or Senate or sit on the board of the Federal Reserve and influence monetary policies toward Mexico?
Crickets… Crickets…
It’s called “conflict of interest on a National Security bases!”
Hmmm Jackie…
I would call that Hyper-Deflection!
See… I fixed that for you!
Try again…
http://old.post-gazette.com/nation/20020515dual0515p4.asp
Why is America subservient to the whims of Israel and since when do our politicians curb our constitutional and civil rights to appease a foreign country, one known for its racist, violent Apartheid regime against a helpless repressed Palestinian population?
The day of reckoning is nigh for all who commit war crimes against humanity no matter where and when!
For centuries, Palestinians oppressed Jews
The British consul, William Young, writing in the 1840’s (before Zionism) said that the Jews of Jerusalem were living in fear for their lives. He attributed the plight of the Jews to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace…”
JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.
Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived. Notice the word “bigotry.”
& now Palestinians oppress Israelis.
Stabbing Israelis is oppression. Running over Israelis is oppression. Blowing up Israelis in buses is oppression. Launching rockets & mortars at Israelis is oppression. Blowing up pizza restaurants & night clubs & hotels is oppression.
Jack Green is a lying hasbara troll, fully aware that he’s posting a grossly misleading pile of shit (and even gets the newspaper wrong, AGAIN), on which I have corrected him before.
He’s one of the worst hasbara trolls ever, in every way. He recycles the same debunked garbage, over and over. It’s what he does.
So , he’s basically you, just on other side.
For centuries, Palestinians oppressed Jews?
OMFG.
are you serious?
is that how your mind works?
you are one of these backward looking biblical crazies?
your rationale for success in life is generations back?
Looking back for recourse to balance a ledger is considerable if and only if you are currently disadvantaged. I DONT SEE THAT. And i dont believe the rest of the world does either. To be fair surely you realise that generations hence Palestinians will be seeking retribution and recourse upon the murderers and thieves they will rightfully blame for their disadvantage. You are familiar with the Hatfields and McCoys?
Please don’t put words in my mouth.
it is not possible to put words in your mouth
it is already so full of garbage there is no room
America is not subservient to the whims of Israel.
Various pro-Israel lobbies have a disproportionate influence on US foreign policy, in particular vis-a-vis the ME.
The undying cross-partisan support for Israel from both GOP/DNC is unprecedented and perfectly explained by it.
How are various pro-Israel lobbies able to have a disproportionate influence on US foreign policy?
Certainly not all of America, just the god damned elected whores in office who don’t mind getting Americans killed in fraudulent wmd wars or lives ruined with job losses or indentured with student loan fraud.
Bankers just happen to be Jewish and the Jewish exclusive nature is racism defined. A religion with its own state. Trade deals of a favorite nation. Massive funding from tax payers. Constant cries for help while moving borders and gaining ground. It’s just ridiculous. How stupid do you think we are? The end of the golden brick road is where you may find a proportional percentage which, in light of the chaos, mayhem and fraud, does reflect negatively on the class who assumes they must run everything. And opening up Jesus Christ’s tomb…without a ceremony…well, the moment Christians see the corpse of their Lord and Savior is the end of their religion. But the Jewish people know that. And now, they have done the unthinkable. Tables turn.
1. Jewish people are over-represented in the professions in partbecause, collectively, they are one standard deviation more intelligent as measured by things such as graduate school aptitude tests. So are Asians.
2. Christian Europe historically prohibited Jews from professions and land ownership, but allowed them to lend money. That is, Jewish over-representation in finance is also a by-product of discrimination and persecution.
3. Most versions of Judaism are not “exclusive” in any political sense, and a great many Jewish people are not at all religious, probably a majority.
As for this:
Put down the Tim LaHaye and try some serious reading.
If not religious, most (not all) whether relgious or not support the Agenda of Zionism.
Yes, most Jews came to support Zionism in the wake of WWII for rather obvious and sympathetic reasons. America didn’t exactly cover itself in glory and answer the desperate need of fleeing European Jews when we refused to let them immigrate here.
The enormous problem is, the serious and morality-based objections decent-minded Jews had to Zionism before the monstrous events in Germany, the underpinning of those objections didn’t change. They were simply set aside.
It is simply not possible to advocate and implement ethno-religious supremacism against an indigenous people and also remain moral and decent. No matter the more understandable motives. Jews in the West are increasingly coming to that understanding, which is why you see so many of them leading the BDS movement and other pro-Palestinian advocacy, including in their journalism.
Many such Jews they reject the ugly distortions Zionism has caused in Jewish ethics and in their community. These wise Jews have always existed, but they are getting more numerous.
Zionism Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews
The problem remains. If Zionism is not the answer, what is?
That’s the first, the very first, non-bullshit comment I’ve seen from you. As I’ve posted many times, that liberal Western Jews of good conscience largely abandoned their (entirely correct) opposition to the terrorism and fascism of political Zionism (and those were the words they often used, because they were and are accurate).
Zionism has not protected Jews. Rather, it is stoking antisemitism, for many reasons. Not the least that so many prominent, warmongering neoconservatives are Jewish, and their agenda is largely driven by what they perceive as good for Israel. Moreover, it has deeply corroded Jewish ethics, greatly supplanting universalist and tolerance-advocating ethics in sad exchange for a narrow, uber-nationalistic and racist ideology.
The tragedy and abomination of the Holocaust is compounded by the rancid corruption of Jewish ethics that, even if understandably, occurred in its wake. “Never again!” needs to apply not just to Jews, but to all peoples, and should cause Westerners to open their borders to, e.g., fleeing Syrians. It should mean that Africans fleeing oppression are welcomed in the land now called Israel — but they cannot be, because they are the wrong religion and/or race. It should have meant no nakba.
You’ve seen it from me many times before: As Max Blumenthal puts it, Zionism kills Palestinian bodies and Jewish souls. It has turned legions of Jews into lying, dishonest people who perform as you have done for so long here.
So do you have a replacement for Zionism?
‘Award’ Jews equal rights and freedom of persecution, as has been fully achieved most 1st world countries.
It’s one of the reasons why the ‘ingathering’ of Jews by Israel has stalled and less than half of the worldwide Jewish population lives in Israel.
Creating a ‘safe haven’ (that turned out not that safe anyway) at the expense of the safety and well being of other people is fighting fire with fire.
“freedom FROM persecution”
How do we achieve “freedom FROM persecution?”
We’ve already achieved it: imperfectly perhaps but no one can claim with a straight face that Jews in the West are subject to persecution.
The US is one of the least antisemitic countries & yet there are 900 antisemitic incidents every year.
History tells us about various countries at various times that welcomed Jews. However, when times were bad & a scapegoat was needed, Jews were attacked.
Also, Israel was not created at the expense of the safety and well being of other people. Zionists’ buying land brought money into Palestine helping the economy. Jews’ draining the swamps getting rid of mosquitoes & disease improved the health & longevity of both Jew & Arab. Bringing unused land under cultivation also helped the economy. Israel brought freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion & the vote to Arabs who had never had these freedoms. The Arabs living in Israel are the only Arabs in the Middle East who do have these freedoms.
I haven’t seen you here before but it;s obvious Mona’s correct: you are one of the dumbest and worst Hasbara trolls I’ve come across.
Most zionists I know would chuckle at your hopeless attempt at the worst pro-Israel propaganda for sale.
Have I said anything that’s not true?
Ahhhh… first you tell us that you are slaughtering Palestinians to even the score from centuries back..
And now you say
Seems to me you are premeditatively having gentiles slaughtered in one fashion or another YOU F****** RACIST PIECE OF S***
@mona
there it is – right on front street!
Again, please don’t put words in my mouth.
no problem
your mouth is so full of doodoosquat there is no room for words
Jack, if Zionism hadn’t been taken over by right-wing Israeli fundamentalism, nationalism, and racism (with a healthy dose of American wacko Evangelism) we wouldn’t need a “new answer”. Israel is generating their own “danger” at this point- which, to their right-wing government, isn’t a “bug”, it’s a feature…
BTW, I’m Jewish, and lost relatives in the Holocaust. So please hold (or stuff) any “antisemetic” comebacks….
yes. hard to find now are the video testimonials of Dr. Hajo Mayer who identified what happened with judaism after WW2. He was a holocaust survivor, dutch jew, and lived in nyc i believe until abt 2009, died. His testimonials are very worth seeing. Thank you for your post and understanding.
The Jewish domination of finance is a product of prejudice and discrimination?Sheesh.
How about its their reason for life?Since Moses came down from Sinai.
Spiritual vacuums but hoovers for dough.
But I know,its me who’s the fantasist.
No, it’s you who is the antisemite.
“…The Jewish domination of finance …”
Is that the reason that the USA has the biggest economy that the world has ever seen?
Wendy writes: ‘just how stupid do they think we are”
I think you are very stupid. Glad to be of help.
In the last 30 years, Israel has annexed ZERO land.
Christianity & Islam have many states.
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/02/senate-responds-to-post-trump-anti-semitism-by-targeting-students-who-criticize-israel/?comments=1#comment-318632
AIPAC owns congress! We need a FBI investigation about that.
During the cold war, Israel appeared to be a pragmatic ally of the USA.
Since then, Israel has become a leech on the USA. The only reason we have fought middle eastern wars is to benefit Israel.
And I thought Mona never assumed another identity. Can you confirm this Mr. Greenwald?
Please don’t be ridiculous.
I don’t remember hearing any president saying that we are going to war to help Israel. Do you?
The whole world benefits from Israel’s advances in science, medicine & technology, but we Americans also benefit from our access to intelligence from MOSSAD which is considered one of the world’s best intelligence agencies & from being able to pre-position military supplies in Israel in case we want to intervene in the Middle East & from Israeli expertise in developing weapons systems. We gave F-15’s to Israel & Israel improved them, 700 modifications. Thanks to Israel, we now have better warplanes. Also, Israel is a laboratory & the Israelis are guinea pigs in learning how a democratic society can deal with terrorism. Israel is on the front line battling terrorism. The terrorists say “First the Saturday people (Jews) then the Sunday people (Christians.) Israel is the barrier island protecting the West.
Israel’s contribution to the ‘War on Terror’ is negligible.
Although cynical manipulators like Bibi love to try and paint Hamas as a component of I’nal Istamist terrorism, the I/P conflict is entirely local.
Great technology is no good reason to support ANY criminal regime. By that reasoning we should have supported the Nazis too.
“U.S. Police Chiefs Visit Israel to Learn How to Fight Terror Threats”
http://www.thetower.org/3734-u-s-police-chiefs-visit-israel-to-learn-how-to-fight-terror-threats/
“Israel trains French trauma experts to cope with terror”
http://www.israel21c.org/israel-trains-french-trauma-experts-in-wake-of-terror-attacks/
“Israeli specialists help Kazakhstan to fight terrorism”
http://central.asia-news.com/en_GB/articles/cnmi_ca/features/2016/10/18/feature-01
“Europe turns to Israeli know-how to fight terror”
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4616769,00.html
“N.Y. doctors train for possible terrorist attack in Israel”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/n-y-doctors-train-terrorist-attack-israel-article-1.260577
I am surprised to hear that America’s colleges are still operating. Legislating what students can say is a stopgap measure, since it is impossible to know what they are really thinking. Rather than implementing a futile measure like this, it would be better if the government simply drafted all students and sent them to the Middle East to fight against ISIS. The empty campuses could then be donated to for-profit prisons, who could convert the dormitories in jail cells and the classrooms into sweatshops for prison laborers.
But I suppose that full fledged educational reforms won’t happen until Betsy DeVos and the new administration are sworn in.
Obama expected to sign Iran Sanctions Act into law
President Obama is a VERY STUPID “MAN”. Setting the stage for WW3 is just plain stupid. This anit-semitic bill is just plain stupid. But then paranoid persons who have murdered and droned and genocided and financed and supported the same tend to do very stupid things. Just ask Adolf Hitler.
ADOLF HITLER SAID THE SAME THING
the whores in the US congress supporting hillary the whore for war lost. Now the war whores that want Americans to fight and die for their power profiteering ways to conquer the planet using the whore congress, the TPP, their MEDIA MINDERS, and fraudulent currency system, are discovering that the world of free peoples oppose them. dont like’m. dont want’m. And they are feeling all insulted from being rejected and dejected and possibly ejected.
Jews Christians Shintaos Buddhists Hindus and Muslims will stand together and oppose the zionist cult of thieves.
The US. govt has always supported terrorist groups one way or another, and Israel is almost as bad as ISIS for there persecution of the Palestinians , cut off the billions of dollars given to them each year and put that money to helping our own people. Israel would not exist if the US. govt quit supplying them with money and weapons.
Palestinians have been persecuting Jews for centuries.
Israelis have been trying to defend themselves.
ISIS has murdered thousands of innocent people with no provocation.
ISIS has murdered people all over the World.
Canary Mission
There’s no way to prove it, because they’ve gone to great lengths to hide exactly who they are, but I’d be willing to bet a great deal that there’s significant overlap in the people associated with CAMERA and UKMediaWatch, on the one hand, and Canary Mission, on the other.
McCarthyite blacklisting is a rather recent and odious Zionist weapon entirely up CAMERA’s alley. In the U.S. perhaps the premier such project is “Canary Mission.” The Jewish magazine, Tablet, describes the project and it’s site thus:
Part of the Canary Mission’s is to list pro-Palestinian activists so they can be harassed online. But the more worrisome purpose is that they intend to silence pro-Palestinian student activists and faculty with threats of destroying their careers. Just as CAMERA and UKMW try to get articles removed and journalists and political cartoonists fired or reprimanded with employment sanctions.
As MintPressNews reported about Canary Mission:
That reeks of CAMERA, UKMediawatch and Adam Levick.
UKMediaWatch???
honest to got, i work, plenty of spare time, scan headlines and sources, discard entertainment & sports & gossip, but there’s sooooo much. i actually have come to rely on TI for important issues that affect any one’s life. UKMediawatch? i once read that israel employs an persons in an actual class – begins with “S” – cant recall the word – 2 syllable i recall – that operate as MINDERS.
Here is my concern – this barrage aint free. Someone is footing the bill for CAMERA, UKMediawatch and Adam Levick. And i rather doubt it is advertising revenues which means it is either personal or STATE. I recall an issue regarding the BBC a few years back when israel was blasting Palestine. I recall netanyahu saying the Americans can be led by the nose – (leading by the nose is an actual technique to moving a rhinoceris). ie – The TPP sought to demand damages for one’s published opinion against cigarettes.
What the hell is going on?
Mona writes
“………There’s no way to prove it, because they’ve gone to great lengths to hide exactly who they are, but I’d be willing to bet a great deal that there’s significant overlap in the people associated with CAMERA and UKMediaWatch, on the one hand, and Canary Mission, on the other…….”
and,
“…….The organization’s goals are clear: It seeks to ruin the careers or future job prospects of its targets, especially students associated with the growth of BDS on American college campuses…….”
and,
“……..That reeks of CAMERA, UKMediawatch and Adam Levick…….”
I am afraid in the absence of any evidence, and your clear slandering of Mr. Levick, rrheard could sue you……
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican who said he was a Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
Nearly half of Americans support sanctions on Israel, poll finds
Nearly half of Americans voted for Donald Trump.
yet another attempt to hijack the voice of the people by attributing a falsified cause-effect scenario just as the thieves of wallstreet do when they reset the price of a stock by opening high and then explain away the SELLS at the end of the day to optimistic buyers.
WHAT A FRICKIN CON JOB.
Jack Green is a known hasbara troll who spits out total falsehoods with frequency. Nowhere near half the American people voted for Trump. About 25% of eligible voters did.
According to The Intercept on November 28, Trump got 46% of the vote.
he has revealed that exterminating palestinians and sacrificing gentiles for gain and retribution gives his kind satisfaction.
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/02/senate-responds-to-post-trump-anti-semitism-by-targeting-students-who-criticize-israel/?comments=1#comment-318632
BEWARE – their minds are evil beyond compare.
College Campuses are overrun with anti-Israeli sentiment. I’m against all hate speech laws in general. The answer to speech you disagree with, is more speech.
However, let’s not pretend that anti-Israeli and antisemitic sentiment, aren’t an every day occurrence at colleges across the US.
And this is bad because?
I’m sure you just forgot the supporting link for that claim. (There is some antisemitic sentiment virtually everywhere, including on U.S. college campuses. But that’s not what you are claiming.)
And btw, the Act of Congress at issue is not a “hate speech law.”
Is anti-Palestinian sentiment bad?
1. palestine and palestinians are overrun with anti-palestinian sentiment that results in genocide by nazi styled israeli storm troopers
2. your inability to recognise empathy means you lack that component in your brain which would indicate that you have a significant birth defect in a class of behavioral related manifestations which in your case generally results in a disorder with dire consequences for which their is no cure. example – did Hitler have a disorder without a cure?
3. i got 2 flags. American and Israel. BURN ONE.
The correct sentence is: Palestine and Palestinians are overun with anti-Jewish sentiment.
The word “genocide” does not apply since the definition of genocide is: the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. The population of Palestinians both inside and outside of Israel has only gotten larger, not smaller. Genocide does apply to the aim of Hamas, Fatah, and the PLO since they want the land from the river to the sea to be entirely free of Jews.
Finally, a lack of actual facts, resulting in resorting to name calling, means you are brainless rather than those who disagree with you. And flag burning is protected political speech, so burn whatever damn flag you want.
generally speaking, when you slaughter people, they tend to have ill feelings toward you.
genocide is, yeah, killing lots of people needlessly, women and children.
example –
“One case of killing caused by “certain identification” this week should have shocked the world. Iman Alhamas, a 13-year old girl from Rafah, was on her way to school, following the same route she took every day. Suddenly deadly fire enveloped her. The doctors extracted 20 bullets from her body. Since not every bullet hits its target and some pass right through, it may be assumed that at least 100 bullets were fired at her from several army positions – one hundred bullets for one little girl. In her bag, only schoolbooks were found.
The army spokesmen issued the standard mendacious statement: the girl had entered a “forbidden zone”, the soldiers took her for a “terrorist”, the bag looked as if it contained explosives, etc. etc.”
(Uri Avnery, 9 October 2004)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.php
I give you 2 flags; One American One Israeli. Burn one. Which one are you going to burn?
ps – zionistas in israel have problems? Their way of solving problems is NOT FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.
I do not like what Israel has done, and is doing right now, to the Palestinians. That in no way makes me an anti-semite! When I find that the nation of Israel is doing this to the people of Palestine because they are not Jews…but because they are Muslims, .then immediately expect me to become a total anti semite and proud of it. And I see clearly that this is the direction it is going. I see a very right wing, Jewish, hatred of all Muslims because they are Muslims. That is just plain sick and wrong headed!
There are many Muslims who hate jews just for being jews and it will never make me hate all Muslims. Only a true bigot and small brained idiot would ever claim to proud of their hatred of an entire people. You are a moron Bill.
And there are many Jews (and Zionist sycophants) who hate Muslims. A complete false dichotomy, of course…
We started with Bill sayig there are Jews who hate Muslims. Where is the false dichotomy Gert?
There are many zionistas who hate americans for being americans and it will never make me hate any real jews. Only a true bigot and small brained idiot would ever claim to proud of their hatred of american protesters against zions who commit genocide and steal the land of palestinians and then put that onus onto america. You are a moron GilG.
Where did i say i hate protesters barbra?
Does it het lonely being a parasite with no life to speak of except for posting your hatred of Jews? The reason I ask is I noticed there are others on this board that you have much in common with and Im thinking of starting a dating site for bigots, conspriscy folks and phoney humanitarians who are really just about political agendas. Interested ?
There is no justification for antisemitism!
there is not justification for genocide!
there is no justification for anti-americanism
there is no justification for SHOOTING PROTESTERS!
get out of my country, please.
CAMERA and UKMediaWatch are affiliates; they both purport to see antisemitism under the bed and in the walls. UKMW is run by a vicious toad named Adam Levick who lives in Modiin, which abuts the occupied West Bank.
Levick has spewed tons of disingenuous and/or outright false bullshit, including about one of this site’s three co-founders, Glenn Greenwald: Glenn Greenwald’s Anti-Semitism Exposed.
Neither CAMERA nor UKMW are anything but duplicitous and censorious propaganda outlets, who constantly work to remove stories they don’t like, or to fire reporters they hate. They are loathsome groups.
CAMERA and UKMW specialize in “dishonesty without exactly lying.”
Their ongoing and despicable attacks on media and writers who dare to challenge the approved Zionist narrative are the epitome of highly-skillful disinformation practice.
Doug
“……..Their ongoing and despicable attacks on media and writers who dare to challenge the approved Zionist narrative are the epitome of highly-skillful disinformation practice…….”
Speak about a disinformation practice: maybe you can provide some good examples of that “highly skillful disinformation practice”. UK Media Watch regularly corrects the misinformation from the British press. They are a pro-Israel.
They are quite skillful, and it worked quite well for a very long time. It’s working significantly less well in the last 5-10 years.
There’s just too many under-35s who have learned some reality on college campuses, and they watch very little cable “news” — they get their information online. There’s so little creatures like Levick can do to stop Max Blumehthlal or Glenn Greenwald from publishing, or from gaining hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter. And those are just two.
Of course, the Act of Congress the above article is about represents the frantic Zionist response to the pervasive truth-telling on campus. But it will almost certainly fall under judicial scrutiny.
Even rather conservative campus free speech groups such as FIRE are opposed, saying that the “definition of anti-Semitism is unconstitutionally vague and overbroad, and we think it is unlikely to be upheld if challenged in court.” FIRE commendably agitates against suppression of Israel-critical speech on campus, even tho that’s not a terribly popular position with its rightwing base.
That’s all fine and good Mona and Doug, but I’m still waiting for examples of the “highly skillful disinformation practice”.
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican who said he was a Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
Yes.
“dishonesty without exactly lying”
Sounds exactly like what I have said about Max Blumenthal. Except of course Max has actually been caught in some lies.
Your claim about Max is false, which is why you offer no support for it. (Please tell me we are not going to have to do the James O’Keefe thing dance.)
Again: Could you say whether you now agree that there is no reason for me to “prove CAMERA is any less accurate than EI?”
Oh, and has CAMERA been affirmatively duplicitous? Not mere omissions, Gil.
I have given my proof of Max lying. That you refuse to watch makes it no less a lie. And still no documentation of a falsehood from camera.
You know since neither you or barabbas have anything to do or anywhere to go are both unemployables whos full time hobby is hatred of Israel maybe you could get together for a date or something. He does really like you Mona and something tells me he also enjoys pulling the wings off flies.
Again: Could you say whether you now agree that there is no reason for me to “prove CAMERA is any less accurate than EI?”
And, has CAMERA been affirmatively duplicitous? Not mere omissions, Gil.
Finally, Gil, you have no proof that Max Blumenthal has ever lied about anything in his published work. (All humans lie in their personal interactions.) I dispatched that silliness you offered about James O’Keefe (having nothing to do with Israel-Palestine) long ago, which is not written about anywhere by any person of note, because it’s dumb — hence I’d never heard of this purported Max “lie” until you showed up here.
Well we are making some progress you admit Max lies in his personal life. Now watch the tape again and you will see that he published a piece calling someone a racist and it was this that he lied about.
Wow! Real classy, Gil, real classy!
Pro-tip: criticism of what the G’ment of a country does, does not equate to hating that country. By your overheated reasoning I ‘hate’ most countries, including Palestine.
BS.
It’s a strange article, that Algemainer stuff: It doesn’t make the case for Glenn’s alleged antisemitism at all. Must have a lot of very lazy readers, that rag…
“…….Levick has spewed tons of disingenuous and/or outright false bullshit, including about one of this site’s three co-founders, Glenn Greenwald: Glenn Greenwald’s Anti-Semitism Exposed……”
They are quotes Mona. How are they outright lies? Certainly, you have to disagree with calling what Greenwald said antisemitism simply because you say the same things – only worse. But I cannot see any of these quotes being “lies”.
Don’t be an idiot and read Levick’s headline, Craig.
To the particularly lazy Algemeiner audience, just a few quotes ‘proves’ his ludicrous thesis.
Yea and………?
See my answer below: 3:52 am.
Your name comes up 111 times. Just copy it and repost it.
I do need a rest, but my name still comes up only half as much as yours. You might need one as well. Thanks for the discussions today.
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican who said he was a Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Discussing politics with CraigSummers could lead to support for torture and authoritarianism, belief that war is the best form of diplomacy, drones terrorize the terrorists, Jews control the US government and colonialism made the world a better place – and may complicate pregnancy.
So in the world of out of touch liberals Trump and the republicans are anti-Semitic because…why exactly?
Because it diverts from the fact that him and his administration are fanatically pro-Israel.
They couldn’t possibly be more pro Israel the Obomba and the hell bitch,and America first precludes that type of perfidy and traitor approach.
If Trump made them accept a peace deal with the Palestinians,would that be pro or anti Israel?
Such a deal would be very America first.
Below, you posted this: “The bigotry of the left has gotten out of control again. Thankfully Trump won”
You are, therefore, not an individual subject to decency or reason.
You are suggesting that one-half of Americans are not decent or able to reason. Deplorables Mona?
Go have a rest, take a deep breath and a modicum of whiskey for medicinal purposes. After a lie down you might feel brighter again.
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican who said he was a Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Discussing politics with CraigSummers could lead to support for torture and authoritarianism, belief that war is the best form of diplomacy, drones terrorize the terrorists, Jews control the US government and colonialism made the world a better place – and may complicate pregnancy.
Yes the left’s bigotry is getting out of control just like in the 20th century.
America rejected your bigotry and identity politics
Oh idiot, please go away: back to Breitfart or Return of Kings, To your kind of illiteracy no cure will ever be found.
@Mona
“READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican who said he was a Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.”
Nothing pollutes this board like Mona. She promises to leave and doesn’t stay away week.
She pollutes the board by blathering, over and over, “95% of the time …”
only to fully engage CS .
Reply.
SourceWatch’s (project of The Center for Media and Democracy) take on CAMERA.
FAIR: Those Aren’t Stones, They’re Rocks
The pro-Israel critique of Mideast coverage</em
That’s pretty interesting, especially given that it’s from 2001. CAMERA is nowhere near as powerful anymore. And the Internet really happened since then, so their lies and machinations are now far better known — media outlets seem to be blowing them off more often and easily.
Calling stones, “rocks” justifies the use of live fire in the eyes of the powers that be, of course. Yet it’s easy to prove that the lethality of stone/rock throwing is basically zero. It’s Physics 101.
Fun with kinetic energy: the lethality of thrown stones: proof that even an Olympian athlete’s stone throwing can never be lethal (own work).
CHALLENGE
Hasbara-ist Gil insists the burden is on me to show that the Electronic Intifada is a reliable site. (It’s not, certainly not in the context in which this issue arose.) Gil himself offers not a shred of evidence supporting that EI engages in lies and duplicity, behavior that CAMERA is demonstrated to promiscuously commit.
But ok. I undertook two google searches, one with the phrase “Electronic Intifada is reliable” and another using “Electronic Intifada lies.” I read through the first 4-5 pages of results for each search, and clicked anything that looked promising. (Anyone can repeat these searches for themselves.) I found nothing arguing, much less documenting, that EI publishes falsehoods or material errors. (I did not click on obscure websites whose names I did not recognize; I twice clicked on posts at the fanatically Zionist but reasonably high profile site, the algemeiner.)
There were Zionist critics claiming “spin” and several assertions, bare assertions with no support, that EI is a “propaganda site.” But no documentation whatever of lies or material errors. That is, not a scintilla of evidence appears to be available vis-a-vis EI such as that showing CAMERA routinely engages in lies and duplicity.
Can anyone else find anything? Can Gil?
Too funny, see how I told you she wouldn’t address my post. Besides Mona as per usual you get it backwards. In no place did I say it was up to you to prove EI was reliable I said it was up to you to prove your claim that CAMERA wasn’t.
My challenge is easier can anyone find anywhere in this thread where I, as Mona claimed, asked her to prove EI was “is a reliable site” . Go ahead Mona and Mona supporters like barabas and Gert lets see you do it.
Glad to see you backing off of your demand:
Getting a bit smarter. It would have only gotten you deeper in the hole not to let that one go.
Huh? Too funny . You lose again sweety . Not to mention the fact that you still didnt answer my question.
There is a relationship to your feeling overwhelmed by unpleasant facts and documentation, and your use of the word “funny,” usually in the phrase “too funny.” A pretty strong correlation.
So, which is it,Gil? I’m not going to answer your question because it is a stupid misdirection, so make a big fuss, declare victory, do whatever. But somewhere in all that, could you say whether you now agree that there is no reason for me to “prove CAMERA is any less accurate than EI?”
What facts? you haven’t given any. too funny. go back to fantasizing about torturing bugs Mona.
Again: Could you say whether you now agree that there is no reason for me to “prove CAMERA is any less accurate than EI?”
Oh, now wait a minute, Gil. You DID clam this:
Gil, is CAMERA affirmatively duplicitous?? Not mere omissions, Gil.
Ima thinkin’ my challenge might still have to be on if you don’t cop to what needs to be copped to, Gil.
Mr. Emmons
According to the Telegraph (“Police called to UCL over ‘violent’ anti-Israel protest which left Jewish students barricaded in room” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/28/police-called-to-top-university-over-violent-anti-israel-protest/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw via @telegraphnews):
“……..Dozens of police officers were called to one of the country’s top universities to quell a “violent” anti-Israel protest which left Jewish students barricaded in a room, after being told their safety could not be guaranteed if they left alone………Attendees at the University College London (UCL) event were forced to remain in a lecture room after hearing a talk by Israeli activist Hen Mazzig, as they waited for police to escort them through the crowds of around 100 demonstrators who had gathered outside………Police are investigating after two female Jewish students reported that they were assaulted during the evening. One was knocked to the ground when protesters broke into the lecture room through a window and jumped in, while another was pushed against a door causing her to have a panic attack…….”
Some of those far right wing anti-Semites – or extreme left wing friends of Mona?
Violence, abuse by Israel supporters caught on video at London college.
Sunday Times:
“…….Jewish student ‘assaulted’ in protest at university……”
Evening Standard:
“………University College London: Police called as Jewish students ‘trapped in room’ by pro-Palestine protesters……”
Press TV
“………Police were called after anti-Israel protesters stormed an Israel event at one of Britain’s top universities, shouting “Shame, Shame!” and barricading attendees in a lecture room, according to media reports……”
It’s not a contest about can produce the most cistations, Craig.
There may have been unacceptable behaviour on BOTH sides.
Have you read the EI post? Do you know who Sharon Klaff is? Have a gander: Brave Sharon Klaff snatches muzztard’s phone during protest. Have a read, Craig. Such a lovely Zio, our Sharon…
“about who can”
OF COURSE he thinks it’s pearl-clutchingly scandalous there was an angry protest of a fucking former Israeli military commander who works for an organization that, e.g., demolishes Palestinian homes. Granting that it’s up to you, I say starve the beast — I do so think it’s best to usually ignore him.
He is immoral and utterly beyond reason.
Now Gert, you can see where the anger evolved from at the protest – far left wing extremists…..like Mona. Mona is angry when Palestinian homes are demolished, but indifferent to the homes of Syrians as they are bombed by Assad and Russian forces. Nothing like the threat of violence to shut down a speaker you disagree with. Hmmm, that is a lot like the new “one viepoint” site that select posters who agree with Mona are invited to attend.
You read that eulology of Sharon Klaff yet, Craig?
From that JDL Congrats Sharon!” page:
“Zionism defined itself through bravery and sacrifice, that will not change any time soon.”
“This is the moment when Sharon Klaff, the head of the British-Israel Coalition (being filmed by her associate, Roy Goldman, from Campaign for Truth) cooly grabs and pushes down the mobile phone (Israeli technology mobile at that) of some harassing muzzrat, wearing a fakestinian kfiah (scarf). This happened at the demo outside the Israeli Embassy in Kensington High Street, on 30th March 2012, when the Islamic appeasing Libtards decided to join up with their muzzie masters to call for yet another “boycott” to Israeli goods. ”
“The nasty creature, the muzztard who is also filming Sharon, is heard making fun of her and making harassing comments while she is being interviewed. ”
“It’s hard to make out what they were saying due to the sickening noise polution from the other muzztards in the background, but at one point they say: “It’s a clever one, it’s a clever one”… perhaps referring to some truth that Sharon was telling the interviewer.”
“After that you can hear the fakestinian’s supporter words: “What the F**K… what are you doing..? bla bla bla…. and the muzzturds then decide to complain to our police force (The same police force they attack, and despise) in an attempt to get sympathy. Disgusting really.
You can hear them crying: “She just threw the phone of ma hand.. what’s going on…? more yadda yadda yadda….””
“I sincerely hope that more officers will start ignoring these revolting creatures since they only seem to need their help when they are attacked. Normally on their day to day life, they go around attacking police officers and insulting them, as well as insulting the country they live in. “
No racism there, Craig…
“fakestinian, muzztard, muzzturds, revolting creatures…”
Are those who write that stuff your friends, Craig?
I have never denied Jewish racism, Gert – or Palestinian racism. After 100 years of conflict, this is the expected result. I don’t approve of racism from either side. I just don’t limit charges of racism to Israelis. That’s all.
Thanks for your input though.
Sure, there’s racism on both sides. But this is far from a symmetrical conflict. In the US, indisputably Israel’s most fanatical benefactor, the discourse remains strongly biased towards Israel. Considering the US’s post 9/11 wave of Islamophobia, it’s hardly a suprprise that pro-Israel anti-Muslim sentiment still rides high and gets covered with the ‘mantle of love’. Your country suffer also from insufferably corporatist ‘media’ (which is why sites like TI are so important, warts and all)
But even the US’s wretched media landscape is slowly changing: more voices critical of Israel’s policies (lamely termed ‘anti-Zionism’) are coming online every year: the influence of CAMERA etc is waning and the lame charge of AS levelled at any critic of Israel is losing potency fast.
Israel may still “win”… but it will lose too.
It is laughable that you actually argue here that Jews the world over need you to defend them from anti-semitism, violence, etc.–as if they face the same amount of persecution as Palestinians do. It’s completely ridiculous. The Gaza Strip and West Bank have been bombed back into the stone age by repeated Israeli attacks like Operation Cast Lead, Protective Edge, etc. Palestine is occupied by the IDF military, the abuses and humiliations suffered are plainly obvious and thoroughly documented. Contrast what Palestinians are dealing with in terms of persecution, racism, discrimination to what Jews in USA are facing: on one side bulldozed homes, shelling of homes, demonstrators shot to death by IDF regularly, while Jewish Americans have to deal with….erm….students on college campuses having teach-ins about Palestine. Or someone called someone a kike, jewboy, etc. Oh, my god the agony, the pain! How will these poor persecuted Jews in USA survive? But this is your position: you act as if there is an equivalence of persecution by Palestinians and Jews the world over. Any Jew in USA or the world for that matter would laugh at your false equivalency argument. In fact they would be insulted by your stupidity, i.e. that they need noble craigsummers to protect them from anti-semitic attacks. LOL! :-D
Okay, Alex Emmons, I now understand how you could make such a serious error calling American civil rights and other organizations “Israeli advocacy groups.” Apparently, in your one sided view of the situation, you were busy reading Palestine Legal’s extensive nonsense and they have a section called “Israel Advocacy Groups.” Apparently, you are an unsophisticated reader of this type of trashy propaganda, as we learn in large part by your reliance upon anti-Israel advocacy groups for your information, and conflated “Israeli advocacy” with “Israel advocacy.”
Once you get some of the basic issues down, perhaps you could write a piece that doesn’t distort what happens on campuses they way that SJP, MSA and Palestine Legal would like you to? I mean, if you had an inkling of knowledge of what happens on campuses today, you’d know that the anti-Israel forces completely dominate the debate and make significant noise both in the quad as well as in faculty circles. Don’t you wonder how it’s possible that while Syria is burning, with 20 times more Arab victims in 5 years than there have been Palestinian Arab victims in 100 years, that organizations such as AMA and ASA focus on Israel but not Syria?
Come on man, you’re trying to be a journalist. Open your mind. First step: assume your boss spouts nonsense regarding this conflict. Then go from there…
Okey-dokey. The hasbara-ists here have moved on from one misdirection to another in order to avoid addressing the copious documentation that CAMERA is a lying, duplicitous propaganda site. Now we are to understand that “advocacy journalism” is good thing when CAMERA (supposedly) does it, but not when, e.g., Max Blumenthal does.
Per hasbara-ist Gil, CAMERA merely and only ” produces pro Israel articles.” Well, no, CAMERA lies and engages in duplicitous campaigns to insert lies into sites like Wikipedia, thus rendering CAMERA a propaganda site. That’s been thoroughly documented as so in this thread.
As journalist Jack Shafer at Reuters has shown, activist journalism has a long , proud and critically valuable history in the United States: From Tom Paine to Glenn Greenwald, we need partisan journalism. But:
And those partisan hacks Shafer rightly smacks down are as beacons of truth compared with CAMERA. For journalists of all varieties, “activists” or “objective” — as distinguished from propagandists — care about factual accuracy. CAMERA does not care about accuracy; it’s raison d’etre, as demonstrated by its history, is to subvert it.
Funny how when ever you are given a response that proves your hypocrisy Mona you deflect to the top of the thread, ignore said response, and post some soapbox propaganda.
During my self imposed vacation from this place I forgot how dishonest and lacking of ethics some can be.
you have an ugly aura about youself. Your immune system is collapsing. The consequence of your ways will give you cancer and in your case, it will sneak up on you undetected until too late. That’s just the way it is.
tell me again how the “Zionists” crucified Jesus barb.
You really are scraping the barrel, Gil.
Barabbas is always accusing Zionists of killing Jesus. He is a nut.
How am I scraping the barrel Gert ? I seriously want to know.
Gil translated: “Nope, I’m still not going to address the well-documented, gross duplicity of my beloved CAMERA. I’m much more comfortable continuing my misdirection, a misdirection that so often includes a pile of personal insults directed at the people who assault my Zionist sensibilities with their documentation.”
Gil: What do you think about CAMERA’s behavior regarding Wikipedia? (Watch. He still won’t directly address it.)
What documentation ? And what beloved ? Read my post again Mona you see that I call CAMERA out for leaving out facts that don’t promote it’s agenda. What causes you to deflect from that is that you refuse to admit your beloved, EI and Max B, do the same thing all hte time. How did I misdirect anything? The issue was never CAMERA and wiki the issue was always if CAMERA was factual. You couldn’t prove otherwise so you brought up the WIKI thing as a misdirection and now act as if that is the point. Face it once again you have been outed as a hypocrite.
CAMERA is a site that that produces pro Israel articles. It provides factual information that favors Israel while tending to ignore the parts of the story that puts Israel in a bad light. No different than EI or an even more egregious practitioner of the form of lies by omission Max Blumenthal.
Now answer my question. When Mr. Beam used the term “parallel universe” do you really believe as you claimed that he meant it as an opposite universe?
Notice how Mona won’t address the question or the actual point.
“…….For journalists of all varieties, “activists” or “objective” — as distinguished from propagandists — care about factual accuracy. CAMERA does not care about accuracy; it’s raison d’etre, as demonstrated by its history, is to subvert it……”
Accuracy Mona? Greenwald pointed the finger at the US government for the impeachment of Rousseff in an article on Brazil (at the Intercept):
“……Many on the Brazilian left believe that the U.S. is actively engineering the current instability in their country in order to get rid of a left-wing party that has relied heavily on trade with China……”
I have yet to see any follow-up proving those allegations. I am certain they are forthcoming because accuracy is everything to the Intercept, right?
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican who said he was a Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
Nothing causes Mona to avoid answering a post like one that she knows she cannot respond to because it is the truth.
that’s her MO. She either pulls the “readers 95% ” bs or else she deflects to the top of the thread. poor Mona, she actually believes it fools someone.
You don’t believe that, and neither does Craig. The impotent caricature of me you describe could not inspire your and Craig’s constant whining and constant blizzard of fallacies, including inane ad hominems.
You know what would constitute a bit of evidence that you really see me and my posts as you say? Ignoring me, even 95% of the time. But you won’t. You can’t.
This is blatantly fake news. The law encompasses all groups not just anti-Israel speech or Anti-Jewish speech. The text of the law can be found on the official website for congress and is actually shorter than this article, here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/10/text?r=21
A few highlights, “(3) Both the Department of Justice and the Department of Education have properly concluded that title VI prohibits discrimination against Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, and members of other religious groups when the discrimination is based on the group’s actual or perceived shared ancestry or ethnic characteristics or when the discrimination is based on actual or perceived citizenship or residence in a country whose residents share a dominant religion or a distinct religious identity.”
Then in section 7, “These principles apply not just to Jewish students, but also to students from any discrete religious group that shares, or is perceived to share, ancestry or ethnic characteristics (e.g., Muslims or Sikhs).”.”
The author of this article is clearly a propaganda artist with an agenda of their own who is both anti-Israel and anti-Palestine as this sort of propaganda does more to drive a wedge between the two and create friction rather than build peaceful ties between the two. As a messenger of peace I implore everyone to stay informed and to call out yellow journalist such as this person.
You are blatantly (well, sort of a malapropism, but justifiable here) deeply full of shit.
Emphasis added for the semi-literate and shameless liars.
Emphasis providing more clarity would be possible were it not for the pathetically primitive commenting software provided by The Intercept.
Funny that: the EU long dropped that “working definition” as unworkable:
EU drops its ‘working definition’ of anti-Semitism (Times of Israel)
Guest gets .5 of a point for working “fake news” into the first sentence. That shows s/he keeps au courant with the memes.
One of the fastest growing ones, I might add.
naturally that weak cowardly pandering whore turned dronocidal maniac will sign this.
I wonder at which point will regular posters here at thentercept start finding out about their illusions of privacy and “reputation” being tarnished by USG or the Israeli government, courtesy of the NSA
https://canarymission.org
https://canarymission.org/individuals/
Most of those folks seem to be Muslim and/or Israelis
There is something, which coming from Peled, I find unbelievably shaky in that interview, namely; when they were talking about the so-called “canary mission”:
// __ On Contact: The BDS Movement with Miko Peled
youtube.com/watch?v=VTepqDOMdZw&t=1165
~
which the Israeli government is using to supposedly (they think through their twisted minds (even the name they picked for that PR operation, which they apparently got from the “canary in coal mines” metaphor, I find self ridiculing)) discredit people, destroy their “reputation” (as Glenn Greenwald would say), deprive them of their own illusions about privacy.
Peled said that he doesn’t know from where they get so much personal information about regular people. Really?!? Perhaps as a courtesy of the NSA, (5+1) eyes? I am amazed to hear Peled wondering about such things! Yet, I see the silver lining in their ways of harassing, trying to blackmail people. The Israeli government doesn’t seem to realize how much damage they are doing to their own credit once they can’t help but do such thing.
Imagine one of the very few journos in extinction with some spine and brain still sporting their morally grounded minds like Village Voice’s Nick Pinto or theintercept’s Jamie Kalven:
// __ Village Voice: 2016-06-28 NYPD Watchdog Shatters Bratton’s ‘Broken Windows’ — Now What?, by NICK PINTO
villagevoice.com/news/nypd-watchdog-shatters-brattons-broken-windows-now-what-8796746
~
// __ Watch Your Back: Chicago Police Bosses Targeted Cops Who Exposed Corruption
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/06/chicago-police-bosses-targeted-cops-who-exposed-corruption/
~
writing pieces with some teeth about such issues!!!
I have been questioning Glenn but I haven’t been successful at all:
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/14/in-the-trump-era-leaking-and-whistleblowing-are-more-urgent-and-more-noble-than-ever/?comments=1#comment-309989
Now, it is actually the Israeli government “exposing” regular folks out there courtesy of the NSA and making US Academia team up with their sugar daddies while harassing their students and faculty!
It is about time theIntercept changes their jogo bello stance and starts denouncing wrong doing in ways that the agents can be indicted and prosecuted
RCL
One of the good things (silver linings are good) to come out of Trump’s election is the exposure of antiSemites who are pro Israel. While the knowledge that racists find Apartheid regimes appealing shouldn’t shock anyone (shouldn’t, but the media is treating this like no one could possibly have predicted such a thing) having it be headline news in the MSM will make it easy to debunk the effort to delegitimize opposition to Apartheid by branding it as ‘antiSemitism’. Now, just like debunking the ‘Obama is foreign born’ meme did nothing to stop those who were using it as a polite face for their racism and unreasoning hatreds of progressiveness (not that Obama was all that progressive, but the one drop rule seems to be used for more than race) from both claiming it to be true and trying to stifle speech, debunking the ‘what is good is motivated by badness’ meme that has been used against pretty much every movement trying to move society towards justice (ending slavery = envy of the wealth of slave states, women’s liberation = hatred of men, gay marriage = promotion of casual sex, and, most equivalent ending South African Apartheid = totalitarian, genocidal communism) won’t move some people’s dial, but it does add more sand to something that’s been close to the tipping point for a while.
About CAMERA. The most recent hasbara account here has linked to CAMERA, the so-called Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America. CAMERA is an unreliable, mindlessly pro-Israel propaganda site, affiliated with other such, e.g., UKMediaWatch (formerly CiFWatch).
Online, CAMERA’s purpose is to spread disinformation. Somewhat notoriously, they were exposed for machinations vis-a-vis Wikipedia. Internal CAMERA emails were leaked to the Electronic Intifada which published them; The Boston Globe then reported:
After EI broke the story, according to the Globe Wikipedia suspended these hasbara trolls: “That got Wikipedia’s attention. A panel of three administrators sanctioned or indefinitely blocked and banned five members of Ini’s group.”
CAMERA does not care about accuracy. Their sole mission is to distract and deflect from the current and historical record of Zionist crimes and misdeeds, and to spit out misleading and even false garbage about Israel’s critics. As is apparent in this thread, the same mission often holds for those who approvingly cite it.
Gee Mona how come you left the following quote out of that piece, which btw was was published in the NY Times not the Globe.
“That is certainly what the campaign looked like to the Electronic Intifada, a parallel-universe, pro-Palestinian news organization operating out of Chicago. ”
Mona you are once again engaging in exactly the type of deception through selective quoting that she accuses others of doing. Not only that you in no way back up your claim that Camera was inaccurate. Wiki’s problem was not with the accuracy of what was posted but with advocacy journalism Camera engages in not being suitable.
what the hell is advocacy journalism? sounds like an oxy moron to me. Camera is a propaganda organisation and if it attempted to subvert what is supposed to be a neutral encyclopedia it and its trolls should be rebuffed
well Tony I suggest you ask Max Blumenthal what advocacy journalism is as he fancies himself as someone who practices the form. But essentially is used as an excuse by ideologues who claim to be journalists for only giving one side of the story.
Kind of like the Fidel Castro fanatics who like to post about Cuba’s military adventures in Africa but leave out Castro sending Cuban military support to Mengistu Haile Mariam the mass murder war criminal. Understand now Tony?
Around here it’s better called “activist journalism,” which this site proudly and openly practices. American journalism includes a long and important history of that genre.
What distinguishes activist journalism — or any kind — from propaganda, is attention to factual accuracy. This site is rigorous about factual accuracy and when it makes an error, or mistakenly omits something that could reasonably be considered material, it publishes a correction; CAMERA, by contrast, has long been notorious for the opposite.
Um, no, sorry Gil, that was in The Boston Globe, specifically form their columnist Alex Beam. Perhaps you are confused because the Globe is owned by The New York Times, Inc.
And no shit, that EI is a “parallel universe” to CAMERA! One where truth matters. EI seldom makes material errors of fact, but when it does — as every outlet will– it makes a public correction. Moreover, EI has never been involved in anything as trashy as that infiltration of Wikipedia. But then, they don’t need to be — the truth serves their ends well. So wiki volunteers solely interested in well-sourced fact claims will generally edit in correct material.
Writers like Ali Abunimah, EI’s senior editor, or Max Blumenthal, are subjected to extremely intense scrutiny of their every published word by Zionists who seek by all means, fair and foul, to discredit them. Abunimah and Blumenthal are, however, meticulous in attention to factual accuracy, and so almost no material errors have been shown in their work — and that hasn’t been for lack of trying.
Now Gil, what do you think of what CAMERA pulled at Wikipedia?
Mona not only are you misinterpreting the authors meaning of the term “parallel universe” but you are ignoring the fact that you purposely edited that phrase from your quote. Something that you have ranted and raved about others doing and in at least one case falsely ranted and raved . I told you what I thought of what Wiki did and why they did it and it had nothing to do with accuracy, read my post above again. Sheesh, please don’t bother responding to my posts if you are not going to actually read them.
“That is certainly what the campaign looked like to the Electronic Intifada, a parallel-universe, pro-Palestinian news organization operating out of Chicago. ”
There’s NOTHING incriminating about that sentence, GilG.
It’s Mona leaving out the authors opinion that EI was parallel to CAMREA that was incriminating Gert. Mona claims that CAMERA is propaganda while EI is the truth. The source she is using to try and prove this in fact equates the two, a fact which Mona purposefully left out. That she falsely has excoriated others for doing the same only highlights her hypocrisy.
She’s correct in that. CAMERA has nothing to do with accuracy in media: it’s a blatant pro-Israel advocacy group, always has been.
Too funny, yes indeed CAMERA is a pro Israel advocacy group , are you saying that EI is not a pro Palestinian advocacy group and always has been? The fact is neither you or Mona has been able to prove any CAMERA is any less accurate than EI .
I’ve seen EI self-correct. I’ve seen CAMERA infiltrate Wikipedia.
How does that answer my question ?
Besides I have seen CAMERA debunk pro Israel propaganda that wasn’t true.
I’ve answered your question, you just didn’t like the answer.
I asked you Gert if ” EI is not a pro Palestinian advocacy group and always has been?”
You certainly did not answer the question.
We do not have that burden. And it is a heavy one that is on you. It’s quite understandable that you don’t even attempt to meet it.
You may have noticed, Gil, that I cite EI rather often. That was not the case when I first encountered it some 8-10 years ago. I waited, looked into it, and cited it only after I became satisfied it is reliable; not all pro-Palestinian sites are, and there are several I assiduously avoid.
But Zionists very frequently, as here in this space, rely on the duplicitous propaganda site that is CAMERA. This is also understandable; the truth is not your friend.
why is that burden on me, you are the one making the claim?
certainly it is your case to make. it too funny how after copious posts you have yet to do so.
You claim EI is as unreliable as CAMERA. Prove it. (You can’t.)
Meh, Gil purports to thinks the author’s phrase of “parallel universe” is something “incriminating” only insofar as it’s a tool for ranting about my supposedly “omitting” a material matter. Which is absurd. It’s a descriptor and no facts — for or against — EI are offered, as opposed to the factually supported indictment of CAMERA the author is making.
There’s a reason for that; CAMERA is notorious for publishing lies and/or misleading garbage. Indeed, Zionist Gershom Gorenberg, writing at The American Prospect, had this to say about CAMERA, my emphasis:
And let readers of comments section beware of those who approvingly cite CAMERA. And those such as Gil who seek to misdirect from CAMERA’s gross duplicity.
“it’s a tool for ranting about my supposedly “omitting” a material matter. ”
When you are using a source to claim that one source is propagandist and another is reliable and this same source finds them equivalent, omitting that information is indeed relevant. Only a the duplicitous would claim otherwise.
That didn’t happen, nor could it, for the reasons I’ve set forth regarding factual support or the lack thereof. But let’s say, arguendo, that I hunkered down and thought, when clipping from the piece: “Mona! Leave out the descriptor ‘parallel universe’ vis-a-vis EI because that will so totally show that CAMERA is a great site and that EI is full of lies.” Ok, Gil, yeah, let’s say I did that.
Gil is CAMERA a great site? You have thus far had not one word to say about what that organization did at Wikipedia, or about Gorenberg’s documentation of it’s general duplicity.
Why is that, Gil?
CAMERA is a site that that produces pro Israel articles. It provides factual information that favors Israel while tending to ignore the parts of the story that puts Israel in a bad light. No different than EI or an even more egregious practitioner of the form of lies by omission Max Blumenthal.
Now answer my question. When Mr. Beam used the term “parallel universe” do you really believe as you claimed that he meant it as an opposite universe?
i am nowhere near literated at such issues with regard to matters in print as is Mona and many others on this board. But as a “little more than casual” observer-reader of content here, i offer you some feedback because i only imagine that you want to be believed… Your collective nest of retorts and replies and charges smacks of you feeling “insulted”, defensive, and feels dis-ingenious, fony. For what it’s worth you seem to lack appreciation for the viewpoint of others which comes across as simply ugly. For what it’s worth.
and I take it for what it is worth from a Jew hating stay at home parasite who spends his entire waking life posting on the internet and actually believes he fools people into thinking he is not anti Semitic but anti Zionist after posting crap like “”zionists” crucified Jesus” got it barb.
CAMERA is a superb organization with excellent research and researchers. End of discussion.
On the other hand, Electronic Intifada is a lie factory. But what can one expect from an organization led by a man who compares Zionism to antisemitism and Nazism? That’s right, garbage.
LOLOLOLOL. I mean, I use the “LOL” thingie about 5 times a year in comments, cuz it’s so 90s. But I REALLY DID holler out in loud laughter at that. After all the documentation above, THAT’S what you assert.
Fucking awesome.
Some Zios are raised on a CAMERA diet. Bar may well be one of them.
I’m a Zionist, Gert, not a Zio. And I read all sources, including anti-Israel ones, to gain my education. On that note, I’d suggest you feed yourself some CAMERA diet because you’ll learn quite a lot.
Next you’ll be recommending MEMRI and ‘From Time Immemorial’…
Well, Bar is right that one learns quite a lot reading CAMERA. Just not that which Bar would prefer one to learn, about either CAMERA or Zionists, if one has even a minimal familiarity with the relevant world history.
“Money is more powerful than logic.” — Cris Merritt
Universities should not succumb to zio-pressure
from zio extremists to stifle free speech in order to protect israheil from
criticism for zio-war crimes, zio-mass killings, zio-torture–even of children and many,
many other crimes.
How dare these zio crazies try to make criticism of israheil
and its political ideology a crime, or an offense.
Imagine if chinese students
and interests tried to get students expelled from university for criticizing
various policies of the chinese government or their ideological platform.the dumb goyim need to understand that only jews can say
“holocaust”, “gassed”, “burned”, “lampshade”, “soap”,
“cremate” or “persecute” or any word that begins with “Z”. Any goy in violation must be severely punished as a lesson to the other goyim.
The goyim need to learn that only jews can say “lampshade”, “soap”, “gassed”, “war crime”, “shower”, “gas chamber”, or any word that begins with “Z”, or “skittles” or “israheil”. Any goy in violation must be severely punished as a lesson to the other goyim. 90
and yet another Intercept “anti-Zionist” poster revealing their true colors. Hmmm.
Universities should not succumb to zio-pressure
from zio extremists to stifle free speech in order to protect israheil from
criticism for zio-war crimes, zio-mass killings, zio-torture–even of children and many,
many other crimes.
How dare these zio crazies try to make criticism of israheil
and its political ideology a crime, or an offense.
Imagine if chinese students
and interests tried to get students expelled from university for criticizing
various policies of the chinese government or their ideological platform.the dumb goyim need to understand that only jews can say
“holocaust”, “gassed”, “burned”, “lampshade”, “soap”,
“cremate” or “persecute” or any word that begins with “Z”. Any goy in violation must be severely punished as a lesson to the other goyim.
The goyim need to learn that only jews can say “lampshade”, “soap”, “gassed”, “war crime”, “shower”, “gas chamber”, or any word that begins with “Z”, or “skittles” or “israheil”. Any goy in violation must be severely punished as a lesson to the other goyim.
@Mona, @Bar
Last night, Bar linked to a piece posted on Camera and in the course of the conversation, Challenged Mona to disprove the “facts” listed therein. Mona requested a specific cite of the “facts” to which Bar referred, but that wasn’t forthcoming.
Checking in here, this morning, I was curious about the referenced piece and its “facts.” So. . .
Excerpt posted under the Fair Use provisions of 17 U.S. Code § 107.
LOL. Thanks Doug. My friend, if you are going to post that drek, please, please also debunk some of it — which I know you can very capably do.
For myself, I will simply note the common Zionist practice of whataboutery. Fallacies are the Zionists dearest rhetorical friends.
Oh, all right. Just one, for the moment.
Kaplan:
Well, yeah, kinda-sorta and indirectly. Also, of course, Kaplan’s reference to Article 80 (no doubt inadvertently ;^) fails to refer to the rest of Chapter XII of the Charter, including, e.g,:
Obviously, then, reference to Article 80 is specious, its relevance having long since been superseded by facts on the ground and actions by the UN.
Further, it can hardly be said that the fundamental “alteration” of the mandate (the Israeli declaration of independence) was agreed to by the mandatory power (Great Britain), given the events preceding and surrounding that action, and the fact that Great Britain abstained from the first two UNSC resolutions dealing with Israel’s application(s) for UN membership.
We can deconstruct and demolish virtually every element of Kaplan’s lame attempt to create his own facts in similar fashion. And I suppose we will, if it seems worthwhile to do so (Bar, you’re fighting above your weight).
Just as an. . . umm. . . aside, UNSC 242 remains in effect and crucially relevant.
And here’s the progression of facts on the ground, in the most literal sense of the expression.
Of course, those maps were drawn 16 years ago and Israeli expropriation of the remnants of Palestinian homeland has, if anything, accelerated in that time.
Oops. I forgot about the pathetically-crippled commenting software around here.
Facts on the Ground.
Oh no, Salzmann actually used The Map That Lies.
Here: http://www.thetower.org/article/the-mendacious-maps-of-palestinian-loss/
Educate yourself, Doug, so that from now on you cannot claim you didn’t know the facts when you publish falsehoods.
This may strike you as strange, but I have a life. I don’t spend my day/days on here so I’ve missed around 100 comments since I posted last. Most of them are more nonsense. As for the Kaplan piece, forgive me but I stopped reading when he wrote that Israel accepted UN partition in 1948. If someone doesn’t know the basics…
Sheesh, how bizarre and self-contradictory do you get? Worse that this?
Bar, last night:
Bar, today:
I see. So why did you cite the piece as a source of “the facts?” And how did you formulate the suggestion that your interlocutors “scroll down,” given that you had stopped reading before the litany of half-assed nonsense that Kaplan presented as facts?
This is an interesting argument, but there seems to be less to it than meets the eye. It is easy to look up UNSC resolution 338 on Wikipedia – it is clear that it was only a resolution to negotiate an end to the war, not a declaration that any particular part of Israel was up for grabs. Article 80 is a general statement that existing rights won’t be changed, but it’s NOT Israel-specific and it seems pretty vague to me. And while British Mandate, article 6 ( http://www.mandateforpalestine.org/the-mandate.html ) really does encourage Israeli settlement to state and waste lands, this is a mandate for the *British* acting as the Mandatory for the UN. The British are presented to be an impartial, wise, fatherly colonial power looking over their children fairly, and it should be apparent that any right or duty granted to them is not necessarily going to make much sense as a blueprint for a Zionist partisan government. And indeed, the British did not simply hand over the Mandate to Ben-Gurion or whoever, there is some UNGA resolution 181 that comes up (start with Wikipedia “founding of Israel”) that has the usual map of various Jewish and Palestinian zones. I feel the author here is being disingenuous. I’m not saying that expelling Palestinians from Israel – with compensation, and compensation for Arab countries that take them in – wouldn’t make somewhat more sense than the one- and two-state pipedreams that the U.S. government so regularly draws up, takes credit for, and watches fail miserably. But it’s not based on some old text. Whatever the Israelis do, it will have to be something new.
That said, and I’ve said before here, I think the actual solution that will happen is to implement the Prophet Isaiah’s suggestion: dry the Red Sea, replace it with seven streams of fresh water, and make it a highway for the Assyrians as it was a highway for the Jews before them. Which is to say, build the Red Sea dam, generate power, generate desalinated water, make the region bloom, and settle the Palestinians elsewhere within this fertile new part of the world.
I ‘m not sure you understood the thrust and meaning of my post, which was in response to Mona’s request that I debunk some of Kaplan’s silly claims and arguments. I only had energy for one, at the moment (as I said), so I picked one near the top of his list.
If you meant Kaplan’s argument hearkening back to Article 6 of the Mandate, rather than my debunking, I don’t agree, at all, that it’s interesting. I think it’s specious, silly and pathetically ridiculous.
The only people who inspire antisemitism are Jews themselves.
Trump has a Jewish son in law,his daughter converted,why would he inspire anti semitism?
This phenomenon has been around for millennia,but the little shite lays it at Trumps feet.
Which of course inspires more antisemitism.
Well I have to agree you are partially correct. The anti-Semites who flocked to Trump were engaged in anti-Zionism long before Trump appeared as a candidate for the presidency. They of course were ignored by the “anti-Zionist” left who for the most part accepted them as bedfellows, but now want to blame them on Trump.
This is false. I have long called out such people’s commentary in this space, well, well before you arrived last spring or so. Ali Abuniumah has publicly denounced them and called for strong analogous denunciations — which do occur — from all pro-Palestinian activists. That he did when Donald Trump was still just a half-assed reality TV star.
You are brazenly lying Gil. There is no other word for it. That’s not an error; it is a lie.
You have called out these people on occasion Mona and should be commended for doing so. But you will note the use of the words “the most part” . These folks have all existed on message boards and in the world long before Trump. The fact that other then their anti-Semitism and their favoring of Trump their politics in the ME, Russia and even the US to a great deal mirrors your own should give you pause. Rather than once again dealing in making false accusations about Mona I suggest you stop and reflect as to why these these similarities in political stance between you and racist Trump supporters exist.
Or perhaps you, Israel apologist, should ask why so many in your camp are deeply Islamophobic?
I don’t align myself with anyone making Islamophobic remarks or reply in support of anything such a person might post, and I readily admit that that view exists among a segment those who support Israel. I’m not the one who ignore blatantly racist posts to take on those who call them out you are.
Gert how about we count how many Islamophobic posts on this boards I ignored and how many anti-Semitic posts you ignored. Which number do you think would be higher ? Care to bet?
I’ll take that at face value, in bona fide.
Why then this obsession of trying to smear ‘anti-Zionists’ with the antisemitism charge, Gil G? Care to explain the duplicity?
Personally I think it’s paucity of ideas, combined with elevating antisemitism to the status of Special Racism.
Oh FFS, their views on any of that you mention do not “mirror my own.” No one reasonable who is remotely familiar with the panoply of my views and political philosophy would say anything so stupid. No one reasonable — but that excludes a fanatical Zionist such as yourself, who has little to employ but that which is false and/or stupid.
How am I a fanatical Zionist Mona. Is this going to end up like our last go round where you get caught making false accusations that you can’t backup and ends with your admission that you fantasize about being a 6 year old boy who tortures bugs? Yeah, your reasonable. Too funny.
Face it during the many discussions about Syria, Russia and the Obama gov’t you and the aforementioned were in lock step.
The anime-Nazis and meme-“warriors” that indulge in infantile Joooos to the ovens! antisemitism show very little interest in the I/P conflict. They possibly hate Muslims even more than they hate Jews. They’re also far too politically illiterate to have a ‘reasoned’ position on I/P.
As regards the latter part of your sentence, I’d like to know where you get that idea from.
It’s very easy to find pro-Israel sites/comment threads that positively drip with Islamophobia. Then there are those sites/comment threads that seem to specialise in equal opportunity racism, combing Islamophobia AND antisemitism.
All in all this proves little: one can be ‘pro-Israel’ or ‘pro-Palestinian’ w/o being racist. Yours is simply guilt by association, aka smearing…
Really Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza Movement had very little interest in the I/P conflict?
Besides the anti Jewish posters on this board don’t engage in Jews to the ovens type of anti-Semitism they usually just blame Zionists for controlling the world it usually goes unremarked upon until they do something like claiming that Zionists crucified Jesus.
Berlin is an anime-Nazi/meme-warrior? Who thunk.
Berlin is an antisemitic nincompoop who chose the wrong hobby. They exist and that’s not in dispute by me.
To claim, as you are trying, that these are somehow aligned with people like Mona, me or many others here is as ABSURD as claiming you are aligned with Islamophobes.
I hope you finally got it this time.
“Berlin is an antisemitic nincompoop who chose the wrong hobby. They exist and that’s not in dispute by me.”
No actually Gert what you claimed was:
“The anime-Nazis and meme-“warriors” that indulge in infantile Joooos to the ovens! antisemitism show very little interest in the I/P conflict.”
Certainly Berlin not only had a large interest in the I/P conflict but until outing herself was a leader of the movement. But thanks for at least admitting she is indeed an antisemitic nincompoop.
No Gil G, she not an anime-Nazi/meme-warrior. These were the people I was referring to. Learn to read.
If you want we can make this a ‘whataboutery war': no shortage of deeply racist, absurd statements coming out of the pro-Israel camp, not to mention Israeli Zionists, some of them Rabbis!
Yet another indicator of how far down the road to totalitarianism the U.S has traveled.
Secondly, it is an important comment that there exists a State Department edict defining anti-semitism in such a self-serving manner as has been revealed in this article. Further, in view of the fact that it was/is intended for application to foreign situations, it would appear that the U.S. State Department has been enforcing this definition to counter individuals and groups advocating for the Palestinian cause world-wide. ….Unbelievable!
The headline and first paragraph of this article are an example of propaganda masquerading as journalism
The only ones buying into this are the leftists themselves who are increasingly living in their own shriveling icy bubble.
The far-right Zionist inability to accept facts — to perform farcically when confronted with reality — is well displayed in an exchange below. I had posted a quote from the diary of the First Founder of political Zionism, Theodore Herzl, to wit:
So, as shown, Herzl peddled the Zionist project to many European gentiles, including the quintessential colonialist, Cecil Rhodes. Herzl and others of his time explicitly identified Zionism as a European colonial project. The Second Father of political Zionism, Vladimir Jabotinsky, did so even more aggressively — as I’ve documented here many times.
Zionism is and was a settler-colonialist movement by its own admission and terms. The historical record is replete with overwhelming evidence that this is so. What, then, does the committed Israel apologist have to say when confronted with reality? This:
Zionists of this type — and they are the majority online in my experience — cannot be reasoned with. Myriad leaders of Zionism clearly declared theirs to be a settler colonialist movement of a European nature. Yet, the indoctrinated Zionist will treat this reality as does the Christian fundamentalist “creationist” when presented with definitive data showing that the Earth is NOT 4,000 years old: Pure denial and rhetorical tap dancing.
Further, this type of commenter is a propagandist. Fact and reason cannot defeat them. But, their performance is itself a valuable tool in showing the poverty of the Zionist narrative.
Brilliant! and thank-you-very-much
Mona
“……Zionism is and was a settler-colonialist movement by its own admission and terms. The historical record is replete with overwhelming evidence that this is so. ……”
Then you should post the rest of my reply if you are so certain. You have never attempted to reply to the obvious differences between colonialism and Zionism which I have posted numerous times. When you are as vehemently opposed to a Jewish State as Mona, you accept anything which promotes your argument. She doesn’t like that I posted the laws of South Africa which I posted below, or the obvious differences between Zionism and colonialism which follow in this post. The Zionists used the colonial empire to realize a Jewish State. Connecting Zionism to colonialism is part and parcel to the strategy to delegitimize the Jewish State.
Herzl wrote:
“……Because it is something colonial…….”
Zionism differs from colonialism:
1. Jerusalem is and was the holiest city in Judaism with a long history of Jewish settlement (Land of Israel). Although Palestinian Arabs far outnumbered the amount of Jews in Palestinian when immigration began in the late 1800s, there were Jews living in Palestine and throughout the Middle East (for thousands of years). Jews did not see themselves as “foreigners”. This is completely different than European settlements in North America, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc.
2. Europeans were motivated by expansion and trade (economic benefits). Jews were motivated by centuries of anti-Jewish bigotry and pogroms (Wikipedia):
“……..Beginning in late 1895, Herzl wrote Der Judenstaat (The State of the Jews), which was published February 1896 to immediate acclaim and controversy. The book argued that the Jewish people should leave Europe if they wished to………Only through a Jewish state could they avoid antisemitism, express their culture freely and practice their religion without hindrance.[19] …….”
Anti-Jewish pogroms and racism were common in Eastern Europe especially in Russia where much of the immigration originated. Tens of thousands of Jews were killed in Russia between 1918 and 1922. Jews were long second class citizens under Islamic rule (throughout the greater Middle East). Jews were motivated by creating a homeland for the Jewish people to escape persecution.
3. Jewish people did not claim Palestine in the name of one of the era’s great powers like Britain or France. They did ride the coattails of the great powers to obtain their goal of a homeland through the British Mandate in Palestine, but no immigrant got off the boat and stuck a British flag in the ground claiming it for Britain. The British washed their hands of Palestine in May, 1948. There was no war against Britain to obtain independence.
4. Fourth, they didn’t fight or displace the natives like the colonial powers in the various locations around the world. They immigrated peacefully and obtained land mostly by buying from absentee land owners. There were no slaughters of the native population to obtain the land (although there was clearly tension interspersed with some violence). There was no ethnic cleansing prior to the war of Independence.
It’s clear that Herzl who was a fanatical Zionist simply was lobbying the British government – the great power of the day. These are obvious differences. Why does Mona ignore them? The UN decided to divide Palestine into two states. The Jews accepted the proposal. The Palestinians rejected the proposal with violence.
? Reply
The above from Craig Summers continues to demonstrate my concluding points:
But you ignored the reasons I outlined that indicate Zionism IS different than colonialism. Pure denial and tap dancing Mona?
“But you ignored the reasons I outlined that indicate Zionism IS
differentthan colonialism.”Fixed it for you. See how everything is smoother when you keep you posts short.
Thanks.
whoopsie, Is there a Doc in the house?
Zionism IS
different thancolonialism.Oopsy, you meant:
It suited my whimsy to exercise the 5% of time I don’t ignore you, and that proved fruitful. I now revert to the 95% mode. Take comfort in your (ahem) reasons I didn’t address; I do.
“Only through a Jewish state could they avoid antisemitism, express their culture freely and practice their religion without hindrance”
How’s that working out for you guys so far?
Very good, CraigSummers. Ignore the nonsense attempts to deflect from and ignore your salient points.
Thanks. Mona post quotes from this person or that person that supports her argument which she almost always takes to be the final proof. But when faced with post written using some common sense, she is incapable of responding.
Equivalent of:
“In order to secure a supply of fish we enlisted the services of local sea fishermen. Which in no way implies said fish was caught at sea.”
I posted the obvious differences between colonialism and Zionism. It would be much more instructive for you to respond to those points. I am not that big of a fan of fish……
You don’t seem to know what trivial differences means. Two forms of colonialism don’t have to be exactly the same to both be expressions of colonialism.
Deny what went on before 1967 if you want. What would you call what Israel is doing in the WB today? Use a euphemism like ‘illegal settlement’ building if you prefer but most would call that colonising. With permanent purpose, clearly…
Gert
“……..Use a euphemism like ‘illegal settlement’ building if you prefer but most would call that colonising. With permanent purpose, clearly……”
You still have not responded to the differences between colonialism and Zionism . UN Resolution 3379 specifically referenced ISREAL as a colonial project i.e., a la the British Empire. Care to take a stab at it?
The reason I care about that is because, colonialism and apartheid are political (propaganda) terms used to delegitimize the JEWISH state – and link the founding of Israel to apartheid South Africa. The reason for the British expansion (colonialism) had nothing to do with the persecution of the British, right?
British colonialism and Israeli colonialism aren’t the same, obviously. But Israeli colonialism is still colonialism. Not hard, Craig.
Does criticising the AMERICAN state ‘deligitimise’ the US?
Gert
“……British colonialism and Israeli colonialism aren’t the same, obviously. But Israeli colonialism is still colonialism. Not hard, Craig…..”
So UN Resolution 3379 was wrong – at last in reference to calling Israel a colonial project – right?
“……Does criticising the AMERICAN state ‘deligitimise’ the US?……”
You are not getting it Gert. It’s not criticism of Israeli policies like their settlements. It’s criticizing Israel because they are a Jewish state.
The bigotry of the left has gotten out of control again.
Thankfully Trump won
That’s well worth repeating:
Please, do continue with such commentary, especially endorsing Trump’s win in the context of purported concerns about “bigotry.” The service such commentary provides is incalculable.
It’s blatantly obvious where the greatest assaults to our constitutional freedoms are emanating from.
Where Mark?
The Mennonites.
Senate says criticism of a foreign country is hate speech.
??????
Only a certain foreign country,you can bash the rest of the world to ones hearts content.
Romney & Friends still want that Jersualem Country Club, Casino and theme park deal from back when he last ran and lost. It will have entertainment for the whole family plus TIME SHARES! A serious package deal for just $3,999.95 for the whole family. Includes Git re-Baptised Now! or Git de-Baptised Now!(in case you are thinking of changing your religion), your choice, either way featuring a virtual John and river dunk. But it doesn’t stop there… how about that last supper and eating at the table with virtual Jesus! Hungry?
(airfare, taxes and tips not included. Protection from angry Palestinians who want their land and homes back available in insurance form only.)
What Israel wants, Israel gets, regardless of the tremendous human and monetary cost to Americans, we’re only here to serve Apartheid Israel.
This article is misleading.
This unanimous senate endorsement is a solidification of
the policy of the Clinton/Obama State department
“Working definition of anti-semitism” which they
adopted in 2010. Trump’s obnoxiousness is just a
way to more firmly establish the already implemented
attack on dissent by the current corporate owned administration.
Same policy as the Obama corruption, but now the senate has
unanimously pledged it predatory support for restricting dissent.
There is little reason to doubt that the house of non-representatives
will seal the deal
and make this fascist attack the law.
This is the unanimous democrat/republican fascism at work.
After reading the article and all comments, it is amazing how Intercept can bring together the ” alt right ” , the anti jewish and anti Israel! Bringing kumbayaism to a whole new level, or is that just a new form of intersectionality!?
Total gibberish. F*ck off.
Could anyone provide any links that show actual “Trump inspired anti-semitism”?
the poor palestinian people have been fucked since Arafat walked away from Clinton’s camp david summit. Arafat’s admirable refusal to take that deal allowed Republicans and Democrats alike to position the palestinian leadership as unrealistic and unwilling to compromise. this has allowed israel to radically expand settlements on foreign land, place an entire people under a brutal occupation regime, conduct targetted assasinations and bomb civilians at will. trump may be an asshole but the last 30 years of US indifference and complicity to this brutality are not on him.
That’s rather like positing that a woman who refuses to agree to sign a sex slave contract with someone who’s been raping and abusing her since they kidnapped her is to blame for the rape and torture she endures after that.
Arafat walked away? From what?
Have you ever negotiated with someone whose terms were so unrealistic that you couldn’t accept them? It goes like this.
Arafat was NEVER meant to get anything. It was a dead done deal from the start and he knew it.
Great reporting — you somehow were able to obtain a “draft” of the bill passed by the Senate. My own secret sources brought me a copy of the actual bill that was voted on: https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/s10/BILLS-114s10es.pdf
what an absolute bunch of HORSE MANEUR.
We the people pay the imbeciles in congress hundreds of thousands of dollars to write a reminder that discrimination by race creed religion etc is unlawful? Is there a ritual these imbeciles go thru to become proud overpaid members of the dumb&dumbers club?
BUILD THAT WALL
So the 2010 “memo” you write about has something to do with Trump?
In Minneapolis, the entire college experience is mediated through prickish, lowbrow ADL/JDL assassins like the little man Phil Davis, of MCTC, and other ADL type Zionist ‘career assassins” who ruin lives by putting people on lists.
I am certain these types need to go.
It is rather telling that, under the ‘definition’, stating a long standing (as in since WW1) principle of humanitarian law (meant to protect the rights of civilians from racists) – Refugees remain part of the legal population of the territory they were from before they became refugees – and the working definition of Apartheid under the international agreement that outlaws it as a crime against humanity – the denial of citizenship and residency rights on a discriminatory basis that creates the legal fiction that a minority ethnic group within the legal population of a territory is the majority of those allowed to live there as citizens – becomes an act of antiSemitism.
It would be like having a definition of racism where citing a principle of democracy – all citizens have the right to vote – and a working definition of the fourth amendment – anyone born within the US is a citizen – becomes an act of racism by those opposed to Jim Crow laws.
the phrase “anti-semitic” is a weapon used by a cult of thieves who do every thing they can to steal. For instance, when the top dogs of wallstreet lay a trap for the fraudulet valuations of American homes in order to skim profits by selling fraudulent CDO’s to retirement funds and you call them out on that, and they happen to be initiated into the zion cult and who happen to also be jewish, they will condemn you for being anti-semitic when the truth is, they are anti-american as well as thieves.
The power struggle for global domination is on and it’s going to get a whole lot worse very quickly as the planet is dying while the population explodes.
israel zionists genocide jerusalem
Good Morning Viet Nam!
here we go again
Hillary was supporting banning BDS so she would probably have been OK with this too. One of the reasons this country is circling the drain is because the tail keeps wagging the dog and the dog is too dumb to ever figure it out. Our Congresscritters take an annual oath to AIPAC so this really isn’t a surprise.
Palestinians, The Month in Pictures: November 2016
Mr. Emmons
“……AFTER DONALD TRUMP’S election emboldened white supremacists and inspired a wave of anti-Semitic hate incidents across the country….. A draft of the bill……..encourages the Department of Education to use the State Department’s broad, widely criticized definition of anti-Semitism when investigating schools. That definition…….includes as examples of anti-Semitism “delegitimizing” Israel……….”
You are in rarified air at the Intercept even acknowledging the anti-Semitic incidents (even if it is only the far right that you targeted). Israel is disproportionately demonized and singled out compared to other far worse countries in the world (like Syria) – and it has been that way for decades. However, the delegitimization of the Jewish-majority state as defined by UN Resolution 3379 crosses the line into anti-Semitism because it denies the history of the Jewish people which led to the Zionist movement. It’s very similar to Holocaust denial.
Self-determination is written into the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This was affirmed in the 2004 decision by the ICJ which stated that the Palestinians have a right to self-determination in a state of their own in Palestine – a recognition of the two state solution. Zionism is a “nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel”. Zionism was motivated by centuries of anti-Jewish hatred, bigotry and violence. Jewish people recognized their inherent right to self-determination in Eretz Yisrael i.e., by returning to their Jewish roots in Judaism’s holiest city, Jerusalem.
The delegiimization of Israel has its roots at the UN. UN Resolution 3379 passed in 1975 stated that Zionism is equivalent to racism comparing Jewish self-determination to racist, apartheid South Africa – and calling Jewish self-determination a colonial venture with the same imperialist origin as Apartheid South Africa. These are not only false assertions, but entirely racist in denying the reasons for the Zionist movement. The resolution was rightly overturned in 1991 at the UN.
Jewish people have a 3000 year history burdened by discrimination, hatred, violence, murderous pogroms (many resulting from Jewish conspiracy theories), dhimmi taxes/second class citizenship, and genocide. It was anti-Jewish bigotry and pogroms in Eastern Europe in the late 1800s and early 1900s which motivated the Zionist movement. About 150,000 Jews were killed in Eastern Europe between 1918 and 1922. Five million Jews were exterminated during WWII – validating a Jewish homeland. Denial of Jewish history is a common tactic used to delegitimize Jewish self-determination. That includes Holocaust denial. Zionism equals racism; Israel is a colonial venture with the same imperialist origins as South Africa; and Israel is an apartheid state like South Africa are falsely advanced to delegitimize Israel. It’s anti-Semitic to the core.
Hmmm
Israel is ruled by Zionists who are cahoots with u.s. neocons who have no interest in anything other than global imperialism.
Mona
Continuing your policy of not responding to me 95% of the time?
The most important tactic used for propaganda is to compare Israel to Apartheid South Africa. This almost solely based on Israel maintaining a Jewish majority state. Israel has land and immigration laws which favor Jews only because they are a small minority world-wide. The laws are discriminatory, but don’t define apartheid. Applying “apartheid” to Israel is strictly done for propaganda purposes by the radical left and far right to delegitimize the Jewish state.
Apartheid South Africa was a system of legal separation based on race. Laws were passed to enforce the separation of races. From Wikipedia:
1. The Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act of 1949 prohibited marriage between persons of different races
2. the Immorality Act of 1950 made sexual relations with a person of a different race a criminal offence.
3 The Population Registration Act of 1950 formalised racial classification and introduced an identity card for all persons over the age of eighteen, specifying their racial group.
4. Also in 1950 the Group Areas Act partitioned the country into areas allocated to different racial groups. This law was the basis upon which political and social separation was constructed.
5. The Bantu Authorities Act of 1951 created separate government structures for blacks and was the first piece of legislation established to support the government’s plan of separate development in the Bantustans.
6. The Reservation of Separate Amenities Act of 1953 prohibited people of different races from using the same public amenities, such as restaurants, public swimming pools, and restrooms.
7. An act of 1956 formalised racial discrimination in employment
8. in 1958 the Promotion of Black Self-Government Act of 1958 entrenched the National Party’s policy of nominally independent “homelands” for black people. So-called “self?governing Bantu units” were proposed, which would have devolved administrative powers, with the promise later of autonomy and self-government.
9. In 1953, the Bantu Education Act crafted a separate system of education for African students and in 1959 separate universities were created for blacks, coloureds and Indians. Existing universities were not permitted to enroll new black students.
10. The Black Homeland Citizenship Act of 1970 marked a new phase in the Bantustan strategy. It changed the status of the black so that they were no longer citizens of South Africa, but became citizens of one of the ten autonomous territories. The aim was to ensure whites became the demographic majority within South Africa by having all ten Bantustans choose “independence”.
These laws are obviously not present in Israel. In addition Benjamen Pogrund writes at the Guardian:
“……I have now lived in Israel for 17 years, doing what I can to promote dialogue across lines of division. To an extent that I believe is rare, I straddle both societies. I know Israel today – and I knew apartheid up close. And put simply, there is no comparison between Israel and apartheid…….The Arabs of Israel are full citizens. Crucially, they have the vote and Israeli Arab MPs sit in parliament. An Arab judge sits on the country’s highest court; an Arab is chief surgeon at a leading hospital; an Arab commands a brigade of the Israeli army; others head university departments. Arab and Jewish babies are born in the same delivery rooms, attended by the same doctors and nurses, and mothers recover in adjoining beds. Jews and Arabs travel on the same trains, taxis and – yes – buses. Universities, theatres, cinemas, beaches and restaurants are open to all……..”
Thanks Mona
Let me fix this for you:
Apartheid is apartheid, whether one is sympathetic to the reasons for it or not. As my above links shows Israel meets the internationally accepted definition of an apartheid state in myriad legal respects. (Do read it; it is quite good but necessarily long because it is comprehensive.)
No apartheid state is ever going to be identical in all respects to all others, any more than all homicides, frauds or genocides are all identical. The question is whether the legal elements are met, and they are vis-a-vis Israel as all will see who follow my link.
Yea, I wouldn’t let little details like what apartheid South Africa really looked like get in the way of a good story.
Desmond Tutu Condemns Israel’s ‘Humiliating’ Apartheid against Palestinians (IBT)
The joke of calling Israel an apartheid state:
https://twitter.com/havivrettiggur/status/789968757468884992
In the meantime, “Mona” ignores real apartheid against Palestinians:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3770/lebanon-apartheid-laws
She ignores the real apartheid, just several tens of miles away from Israel because, well, why? Why Mona? Could it be, um, singling out Jews for something that you ignore when non-Jews do far worse? Hmmm…seems like the US Senate is on to something.
Funny how those who cause the refugee problem to start with are now blaming their reluctant hosts for poor treatment of said refugees.
Zionist hatred of all things Arab/Muslim is well understood, of course. No shock there.
Theodor Herzl’s diary shows he was antisemitic to his core:
Sure. Was it Islamcity or Mondoweiss where you got your quote from an anti-Israel activist? Here are the facts, scroll down:
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=3&x_outlet=220&x_article=3089
CAMERA is a grossly unreliable Zionist propaganda site. (Yes, I can document their shennigans and follies. Just ask.) If you think there’s something fact-based and relevant there, please quote it.
I am asking prove the falsehoods in the Camera piece Bar linked to Mona.
That’s not what I offered, as I’m sure you know. Neither I, not anyone else (to my knowledge), has taken the entire set of spewings at CAMERA and debunked them. I didn’t even click the link to see what it is, however, because in general, and as many instances have shown, that site is unreliable.
You or Bar should specify — as in, quote — that which you claim is true. I will comment about that when and if you do.
Hilarious. So Mona didn’t click on the link but wrote “CAMERA is a grossly unreliable Zionist propaganda site.” When asked to show the “falsehoods” of the CAMERA piece to which I linked, she still refused to go in there to learn. As I said, hilarious.
Mona
Herzl wrote:
“……Because it is something colonial…….”
There is no question that Zionists lobbied the British government to include the Balfour Declaration in the British Mandate for Palestine. Indeed, Herzl was lobbying the British for that reason as early as 1902. Why not use a great power to help obtain your goal? But that by no means indicates that Zionism was a colonial project.
Zionism differs from colonialism:
1. Jerusalem is and was the holiest city in Judaism with a long history of Jewish settlement (Land of Israel). Although Palestinian Arabs far outnumbered the amount of Jews in Palestinian when immigration began in the late 1800s, there were Jews living in Palestine and throughout the Middle East (for thousands of years). Jews did not see themselves as “foreigners”. This is completely different than European settlements in North America, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc.
2. Europeans were motivated by expansion and trade (economic benefits). Jews were motivated by centuries of anti-Jewish bigotry and pogroms (Wikipedia):
“……..Beginning in late 1895, Herzl wrote Der Judenstaat (The State of the Jews), which was published February 1896 to immediate acclaim and controversy. The book argued that the Jewish people should leave Europe if they wished to………Only through a Jewish state could they avoid antisemitism, express their culture freely and practice their religion without hindrance.[19] …….”
Anti-Jewish pogroms and racism were common in Eastern Europe especially in Russia where much of the immigration originated. Tens of thousands of Jews were killed in Russia between 1918 and 1922. Jews were long second class citizens under Islamic rule (throughout the greater Middle East). Jews were motivated by creating a homeland for the Jewish people to escape persecution.
3. Jewish people did not claim Palestine in the name of one of the era’s great powers like Britain or France. They did ride the coattails of the great powers to obtain their goal of a homeland through the British Mandate in Palestine, but no immigrant got off the boat and stuck a British flag in the ground claiming it for Britain. The British washed their hands of Palestine in May, 1948.
4. Fourth, they didn’t fight or displace the natives like the colonial powers in the various locations around the world. They immigrated peacefully and obtained land mostly by buying from absentee land owners. There were no slaughters of the native population to obtain the land (although there was clearly tension interspersed with some violence). There was no ethnic cleansing prior to the war of Independence.
It’s clear that Herzl who was a fanatical Zionist simply was lobbying the British government. The UN decided to divide Palestine into two states. The Jews accepted the proposal. The Palestinians rejected the proposal with violence.
your pretense of civility is as cheap and fony as your respect for Palestine.
PressTV-Israeli jailing of Palestinians ‘part of 9/11 world’ – GENOCIDE
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/02/496113/Palestine-Israel-Prisoners-Hunger-Strike-Hall
“……..your pretense of civility…….”
That is a very strong accusation. Jesus still loves you though.
That whole “delegitimising” thingy is a complete red herring. States are neither ‘legitimate’ or “non-legitimate”: they just ARE.
Criticising Israel (rightly or wrongly) no more deligitimises it than criticism of Washington deligitimises the US.
While such criticism CAN be racist, it certainly isn’t by definition racist as you imply.
“3000 year history burdened by discrimination, hatred, violence, murderous pogroms” (poppycock: any decent Jewish historian will tell you theirs is a checkered history) does not somehow justify the dispossession of an entire other people, one that had no hand in past Jewish misfortunes.
Gert
“……..does not somehow justify the dispossession of an entire other people, one that had no hand in past Jewish misfortunes…….”
First of all, Israel deserves to be criticized for their policies in the West Bank. They are preventing the Palestinians from developing a state of their own. The Palestinians have the same right to self determinations as Jewish people.
Secondly, the Palestinians have not been entirely dispossessed. There are 1.5 million Palestinian Arabs living in Israel today. About 700,000 were ethnically cleansed from their land in 1948 which created the refugee problem today. Currently, they number several million spread mostly in various locations in the Middle East. An estimated 800,000 Jews were also displaced from the greater Middle East after Israel declared independence. There are more Palestinians (by far) living in Israel than Jews living in the greater Middle East.
Third, the delegitimization process specifically targets Jews effectively denying the underlying racism, bigotry and violence which motivated the Zionist movement; effectively denying the Jewish historical connection to Palestine – and specifically the city of Jerusalem; effectively denying that Jews are a small minority world-wide that necessarily must have laws in place to protect their majority status; and effectively denying that Zionism was a peaceful movement until the war of independence (differing from standard colonial policies with the native populations). In every way shape and form, the delegitimization process is an attempt to deny Jewish people their legitimate right to self-determination.
Criticism doesn’t deligitimise, as I explained.
The Jews now have a homeland, their self-determination has not been violated at all. Palestinian self-determination though clearly has. For many Zionutzies, Israel never seems large enough.
Initial Zionism may have been peaceful but just read Vladimir Jabotinsky: he understood correctly just what creating a Jewish majority in Palestine would inevitably entail.
As regards those Mizrahi expulsions, in some cases Israel had a dab hand in them. See for example:
The Zionist Destruction of the Iraqi Jewish Community (Tony Greenstein)
Gert
“……..As regards those Mizrahi expulsions, in some cases Israel had a dab hand in them. See for example: The Zionist Destruction of the Iraqi Jewish Community (Tony Greenstein)……”
That by no means is proven. Indeed, there are much more simple explanations for Jews leaving. The conditions for Jews in Iraq deteriorated rapidly after Israel declared independence in May, 1948 (according to Wikipedia):
“……In 1948, the country was placed under martial law, and the penalties for Zionism were increased. Courts martial were used to intimidate wealthy Jews, Jews were again dismissed from civil service, quotas were placed on university positions, Jewish businesses were boycotted (E. Black, p. 347) and Shafiq Ades (one of the most important anti-Zionist Jewish businessmen in the country) was arrested and publicly hanged for allegedly selling goods to Israel, shocking the community (Tripp, 123). The Jewish community general sentiment was that if a man as well connected and powerful as Shafiq Ades could be eliminated by the state, other Jews would not be protected any longer.[23] Additionally, like most Arab League states, Iraq forbade any legal emigration of its Jews on the grounds that they might go to Israel and could strengthen that state. At the same time, increasing government oppression of the Jews fueled by anti-Israeli sentiment together with public expressions of antisemitism created an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty……..”
Additionally – which helps explain the mass exodus of Jews (Wikipedia):
1. In July 1948, the government passed a law making all Zionist activity punishable by execution, with a minimum sentence of seven years imprisonment…….”
2. On August 28, 1948, Jews were forbidden to engage in banking or foreign currency transactions.
3. In September 1948, Jews were dismissed from the railways, the post office, the telegraph department and the Finance Ministry on the ground that they were suspected of “sabotage and treason”.
4. On October 8, 1948, the issuance of export and import licenses to Jewish merchants was forbidden.
5. On October 19, 1948, the discharge of all Jewish officials and workers from all governmental departments was ordered.
6. In October, the Egyptian paper, El-Ahram, estimated that as a result of arrests, trials and sequestration of property, the Iraqi treasury collected some 20 million dinars or the equivalent of 80 million U.S. dollars.
7. On December 2, 1948, the Iraq government suggested to oil companies operating in Iraq that no Jewish employees be accepted.[24]……”
15 April 1865
15 May 1948
24 March 1933
22 November 1963
8 June 1967
3 October 2008
It’s as proven as it gets. Among other things:
Gert
Those bombings are still unresolved. Jews in Iraq faced enormous pressure and discrimination in Iraqi society after the declaration of Independence by the Jewish people. On the bombing of the Synagogue (at that time):
“……Gat reports that much of the previous literature “reflects the universal conviction that the bombings had a tremendous impact on the large-scale exodus of the Jews… To be more precise it is suggested that the Zionist emissaries committed these brutal acts in order to uproot the properous Iraqi Jewish community and bring it to Israel”.[37] However, Gat argues that both claims are contrary to the evidence. As summarized by Mendes:
……….Historian Moshe Gat argues that there was little direct connection between the bombings and exodus. He demonstrates that the frantic and massive Jewish registration for denaturalisation and departure was driven by knowledge that the denaturalisation law was due to expire in March 1951. He also notes the influence of further pressures including the property-freezing law, and continued anti-Jewish disturbances which raised the fear of large-scale pogroms. In addition, it is highly unlikely the Israelis would have taken such measures to accelerate the Jewish evacuation given that they were already struggling to cope with the existing level of Jewish immigration. Gat also raises serious doubts about the guilt of the alleged Jewish bombthrowers. Firstly, a Christian officer in the Iraqi army known for his anti-Jewish views, was arrested, but apparently not charged, with the offences. A number of explosive devices similar to those used in the attack on the Jewish synagogue were found in his home. In addition, there was a long history of anti-Jewish bomb-throwing incidents in Iraq. Secondly, the prosecution was not able to produce even one eyewitness who had seen the bombs thrown. Thirdly, the Jewish defendant Shalom Salah indicated in court that he had been severely tortured in order to procure a confession. It therefore remains an open question as to who was responsible for the bombings, although Gat argues that the most likely perpetrators were members of the anti-Jewish Istiqlal Party.[38] Certainly memories and interpretations of the events have further been influenced and distorted by the unfortunate discrimination which many Iraqi Jews experienced on their arrival in Israel.[13][39]…….”
UNRESOLVED, Gert.
“Unresolved” like the the PTs are “disputed”, Craig?
If by PTs you mean the Palestinian Territories, they are not disputed. However, the final borders of a Palestinian state are disputed as outlined in the Oslo Accords and signed by the Palestinian representative, Arafat.
so zionists would kill brits, jews, anyone in acts of deception thou shalt do war?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/736223/9-11-tower-Building-7-collapse-fire-conspiracy
ECOMMCON
This bill is lies based upon lies.
Within this unanimous example of corruption is the fact that this
bill is an expansion of a policy implemented by Hillary Clinton’s State
department in 2010.
That policy was based upon misrepresenting words from the
European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia
which are portrayed as the “working definition of anti-semitism”
which were never adopted as policy by the EU and which were
in fact
dismissed in 2010 by the EU.
Here we have the senate of the faking U$A again misrepresenting
in order to silence dissent and force compliance with its corruption.
To all of you Sanders and Warren lovers, Please note that they
want you to shut up about their beloved fascist colleagues in Israel
AND they want centers of higher education to enforce restrictions
on your knowledge,
just like their beloved democrat/republican fascist colleagues.
“To all of you Sanders and Warren lovers, please note…”
Duly noted.
The best way to fight back is to attack the word “antisemitism” itself. Type JEWARCHY into your favorite search engine, then join the revolution.
The richest most powerful socioeconomic group in the USA had their sock puppets in “their” government pass a law……haaaaaa. It’s so right in your face but the propaganda is so effective most Americans just can’t see it but they can see the invisible man in the sky. Hey; we did it to the Indians and of course they did it to each other so why shouldn’t the Jews do it to a weaker people? If the Palestinians had any brains at all they would recognize reality and give the Jews the land which they have anyway and demand Israeli citizenship; it’s a much better place to live than any Arab country and they might just get power through the cradle anyway. Stoopid,stoopid, stoopid! Any Judo guy would tell you to tap out when you are beat. This is not about abstract myths like right and wrong; it’s about weak and strong. Of course in the USA; the strong majority is as weak as a puppy because, like my dog, their minds are controlled by a small minority. One Priest is more effective and much cheaper than a hundred soldiers/police; truer words never written.
Ah yes, the Israel apologist has definitely shown up. Bar would have us believe this story:
Now for reality. Those Jews fleeing Arab countries did so after Zionist terrorists ethnically cleansed Arab villages and committed various atrocities to steal Palestinian-Arab land. The response of many Muslim nations was also wrong, but it was in reaction to Zionist crimes.
Some Muslim countries imputed guilt to the Jews in their population, thus making the same error that continues to this day among so many, i.e., conflating all Jews with the criminals who ethnically cleansed Mandate Palestine.
Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, and many other Jews of conscience were outraged by the Zionists crimes in Mandate Palestine. They sent a letter to the New York Times in 1948 demanding that Menachem Begin not be accorded respectful status in a proposed visit to the United States; they correctly identified him as a terrorist and fascist.
Do read the whole thing. it documents just some of the then-known atrocities Begin and other Zionist terrorists committed to found Israel.
Zionists historically have had little problem with terrorism when it is committed by their own. They elected two murderous terrorists as Prime Minister: Begin, and Yitzhak Shamir.
I’ll move on to Bar’s next (propaganda) points in a separate comment.
Pace Bar, but Israel was founded in fulfillment of the “dream” of ethno-religious settler colonialists, explicitly acting in the tradition of European colonialism. Theodor Herzl, the First Father of Zionism, viewed antisemitism as the Zionists’ friend, and sought out antisemitic, European gentiles to support the Zionist cause.
Vladimir Jabotinsky, the Second Father of political Zionism, was more explicitly committed to colonialism and ethnic cleansing. In the 1920s, writing in Mandate Palestine, he set it all forth:
In the 1920s, the indigenous Arabs understand, very well, what the ever-increasing numbers of Zionist colonizers were doing to them, and what they intended to eventually do. It was monstrous.
Jabotinsky declared that objecting to stealing the land form Palestinians was the morality of “cannibals.” THAT is the essence of the Zionist “dream.” Which is a nightmare, and ongoing one, for Palestinians.
Indigenous? We have Jewish documents, in Hebrew, from 1000 years before Muslim Arabs conquer this land. We have biblical verses that seem to refer to 700 BCE, where Jews are pining for their lost Jerusalem.
Now if you research Palestinian heritage, you will find Greek, Egyptian, Bosnian, Syrian, Lebanese and others. In fact, Haj Amin al Husseini, Yassir Arafat and Edward Said are all Egyptians. Saeb Erakat’s family is Saudi.
Thanks for playing.
Listen idiot. Had the population living in Palestine at the start of the Zionist nightmare been a motley crew of some Belgians, Americans and some Chinese, it would have mattered one iota. What would have mattered is that they were living there LEGALLY, thus expelling them would have been ILLEGAL.
Indigenous? What’s indigenous to Yehudi from Brooklyn settling in the WB, huh?
As regards these Arab wars and uprisings, they did what anyone else would have done: resist displacement/dispossession. Had the Zionists tried their luck in say, Massachussets they would have been shown the door unceremoniously. As it happened the Palestinians were politocally and militarily weak and an easy target.
Calling me names doesn’t change facts.
20% of population in Ottoman Syrian province that covered the territory of today’s Israel plus some more, was of Greek descent as a result of extensive migration (due to Ottoman pressure on Greeks) in the 17th Century. Extensive migrations of Egyptians in the early and mid 18th Century are well known. Bosnians arrived in the mid to late 18th Century. You have Arab felaheen coming over from Saudi, Syria and Lebanon especially when there is work and extensively during the British Mandate years. Palestinian family names point to origins. Masri, for example, is Egyptian. Here is a Hamas minister begging Egypt for help on the basis that “half” of Palestinians are Egyptians and points out the name Masri specifically.
https://youtu.be/XwBSWN4s9JU
As for Jews, what can I say. If you believe that an Arab born in Lebanon is Palestinian because he descends from someone who lived in Mandatory Palestine, then why do you reject that Jews are indigenous to a place from which they originated? You can’t have both, even if you hate the “Yehudi.”
Can’t help yourself, can you? Eventually Zionist card victimhood has to be played…
Yeah, and my Celtic ancestors have stuff buried all over the UK. We own it all!
Look Bar, you are going to have to address the actual arguments and facts I present, rather than spewing misdirection and broad non sequiturs. Or at least, you are going to have to do that if you want intelligent readers to find your arguments worthwhile.
“We have biblical verses that seem to refer to 700 BCE, where Jews are pining for their lost Jerusalem. ”
Bwahahaha!!!
We haveancient scrolls from the sky-dweller!
But we still won’t use electricity on saturdays, even though our house is wired.
Don’t let that kosher fork touch a non-kosher spoon or somebody is gonna be mad …
and who knows what he’ll do …
kill your first-born, probably (hint; lamb’s blood, wink)
fucking lunacy
So to conclude: you acknowledge the laws and violence in Muslim and Arab states targeting Jews; you acknowledge my timetable regarding their having to flee; you acknowledge these Jews found refuge in Israel.
You ignored, of course, that every single war as well as “intifada” incidents was initiated by Arabs. Specifically, in 1920, ’21, ’26, ’29, ’36-’39, ’47 (which launched the civil war) and ’48 (which ended with Israel conquering the land on which it sits). EVERY war. Launched by Arabs. And the Jews? Accepted compromise in 1922, 1937, 1947, 1949 and offered Palestinians their first ever state in 2000, 2001 and 2008.
Stop deflecting, it looks weak.
Colonisers accepting compromise? You’re too funny!
I love it when people who still benifit today living in the country that was the greatest colonizer in earth call indiginous people who happan to be jews colonizers.
The Thirteen colonies.
At least we were honest about it.
Actually,it would be Britain or Spain who were the greatest colonizers on earth, in territorial area.
Gert is from England. But nice try.
You’re absolutely right, Gig G, as the post-colonial beneficiary of colonialism I should just let the colonisers do their thing, right?
If you’re going to be a supporter of first peoples causes I expect you also enthusiatically support the many non-Jewish first peoples, amiright?
The Zionists who came to Palestine at the start of the 20th Century are about as ‘indigenous’ to Palestine as I am to the US. I have an uncle there, does that count?
Are you denying there were indigenous Jews living that region? I don’t set myself up as a supporter of first peoples causes that would be you Gert, but apparently only when your own ill gotten advantage is not what on the line. Now show me how you personally have given back some of that ill gotten gain and I’ll cheer you standing up for first peoples against the colonists.
There were Jews living in that area, at the time of early Zionism. Not in dispute. How does that confer rights on Yehudi from Brooklyn but not on Ahmed who was expelled in 1948/1967 and now has to live a few miles from his place of birth, stateless. Bearing in mind Yehudi already had full statehood, that’s doubly unfair.
My ill gotten gains, Gil G? How am I responsible for Britain’s imperial past. Next you’ll claim I’m responsible for the Shoah, on the basis that I’m European!
As regards first peoples causes, if you had read my comment above you’d know that doesn’t work here: the Palestinians who lived there did so legally. Expelling them and refusing their right to return remain ILLEGAL. Not hard to understand, Gil G.
Yes, Bar, I know exactly how weak you and other Israel apologists find my documentation. But I won’t be discontinuing all this “weak” citation to the historical record.
A more appropriate title for this article would have been “The United States of Israel”.
For the most part our Senators are disgusting sycophants of the controlling apartheid Israeli regime. For the money and power offered to them by a Zionist foreign entity they sell our children out making those Senators the Benedict Arnolds of our day.
The kind of language these sycophants use to describe the “special relationship” is in itself telling and astonishing. Terms like ‘eternal, unbreakable, unshakable bonds’ are NEVER used to describe ANY OTHER relation the US of Hell has with any other Nation.
If protesters were civil and didn’t use their right of free speech to shout down and scare the bejabbers out of non-protesters we would need these laws restricting “palestinian” demonstrations.
And relatedly, that repugnant billionaire Democratic donor, Haim Saban, has slandered Kieth Ellison, calling him an antisemite and declaring he’d be a disaster for U.S.-Israeli relations as DNC chair.
This will be litigated and in all likelihood enjoined. Given First Amendment jurisprudence it’s very, very hard to imagine U.S. courts not slamming this into the trash heap.
Among other things, our courts properly consider the university campus a place which must allow maximum freedom of political speech — and there is no reasonably disputing that this Act impinges on POLITICAL speech. It will not survive judicial scrutiny.
Threads here on Israel virtually always attract two types: 1. Israel apologists who will shriek and rant that all this criticizing an ethno-religious supremacist nation-state, supporting BDS & etc, are all oh-so-antisemitic, and 2. Actual antisemites.
#2 is already well represented here. When the #1s show up, one could fantasize of cordoning them off in a separate space to endure one another, while the reasonable people have a reasonable discussion.
Cordon supporters of Israel in a separate space.
Hmmm…Where have we seen something like that before?
Where have we see cordoning off commenters who are all inane and unreasonable into a separate space, where have we seen that before? In fora all over the Internet. But I don’t actually advocate viewpoint-based moderation. So as I said, I was fantasizing.
Care to point out where you see the shrieks and rants that elicited your benign fantasy that is so reminiscent of a different cordoning off particular people in a separate space than what you see in fora all over the internet (where people are banned or muted, not segregated)? Thanks.
I do not understand your inquiry.
Oh, ok, you are being tendentious:
That’s inane and I’m not substantively responding to it. This is a freakin comments section and you appear to be a moron.
Of course I’m a moron. Who else would note your slimy attack on Israel supporters who in your world are “apologists who will shriek and rant” to support “ethno-religious supremacist nation-state” but who should be shut up unlike the antisemites who also come here so that “reasonable people” can have a “reasonable discussion?”
The reason you won’t “substantively” respond is that your comment doesn’t lend itself to “substantive.”
You are a tendentious fool, writing of: “that is so reminiscent of a different cordoning off particular people.” About a goddam comments section hen I wasn’t seriously proposing EVEN that.
So what are you? An Israel apologist? A hasbara-ist? I’ll bet you fall into category #1, amirite?
Of course, all you meant was that antisemites and supporters of Israel are equivalently vile and both deserving of being placed away from “reasonable” folks. That’s all. That is precisely what you suggested.
Now, let’s see. 53% of Israeli Jews are descended from, or are, Jews who fled Arab and Muslim countries because those countries turned against their Jews in various ways, including physical violence and state laws. They lost the majority of their assets, their communities – some 1000 years older than Islam itself – and sometimes their lives, and had to flee. Israel is a refuge for them, as it was for European Jewish refugees, many of who arrived in the 10 or 15 years before. In addition, Israel was founded not only as a refuge, but as a means to fulfill a 2000 year old dream of a nation to return to its place of origin, as well as a reaction to centuries upon centuries of antisemitism that found expression in hostility and violence against Jews. Explain to us again how supporting that is equivalent to antisemitism.
There were expulsion of Jews from Arab/Muslim countries but mainly after 1948. Israel also strongly encouraged Mizrahi to ‘return’ to Israel, sometimes by subterfuge. The Mizrahi generally don’t see thmeselves as ‘Arab-Jewish’ refugees.
Prior to the Holocaust most diapora Jews weren’t Zionist at all. Zionism was initially a small, quite elitist club at that time. Israel wasn’t founded as a refuge: Zionism had very clear goals: of establishing a colonial settler state in Palestine. Replacing the local Palestinian population was always the goal.
Tell your fairy tales to your grandkids as a bedtime story. NOT HERE.
Amen. Bar is beyond chutzpah. While it absolutely is true that many individual Jews did and do have legitimate claims against several Arab countries for asset confiscation, to spew about that in the context of Bar’s fairytale is preposterous.
Zionists in general (as opposed to the individual Jews with just grievances against certain Arab countries) have unclean hands, and in a court of equity would not be heard to complain about asset confiscation. Not in light of their past and present theft of Palestinian land and assets.
The pseudo-legal attempt to create a false equivalence between the Mizrahi expulsions and the Palestinian expulsions fell flat anyway. Some retarded Hasbarists keep peddling that myth (of ‘people swaps’) but the relevant Israeli G’ment quietly buried the idea. The Mizrahi don’t see themselves as refugees and seem by and large to belong to the most ferocious pro-settler fractions the country has on offer.
Bar is a very lame Hasbarist, the type that never seems to have read counter-arguments to their Zionist bromides. I hope it’s the last we see of this bandwidth waster.
“The pseudo-legal attempt to create a false equivalence between the Mizrahi expulsions and the Palestinian expulsions fell flat anyway. Some retarded Hasbarists keep peddling that myth (of ‘people swaps’) but the relevant Israeli G’ment quietly buried the idea. ”
I don’t care whether this is legal or not, it’s factual. There was, in the very same years, a population exchange between India and Pakistan and nobody says boo. If you want to be perfectly honest about the Arab-Israeli conflict, more Jews than Arabs lost their homes, communities and belongings. Their communities were older and more established. Far more wealth, property and land were lost than that which Arabs lost. Jews became refugees to the same violence in their respective countries that the Palestinian Arabs sought to inflict on their local Jews, except that they met an adversary they couldn’t defeat. In part this was because their attacks began in 1920, so the Jews began to build defensive capabilities already back then. By 1947, when the Arabs launched their war, the Jewish Yishuv was ready. Meanwhile, iIn Arab and Muslim countries, Jews were far too small a minority and were all civilians. They were cheated, robbed and pressed to leave. Oh, and who absorbed them? Israel. Who didn’t absorb the Palestinians? Most Arab states.
Hogwash. That tragedy was much bemoaned. It is in fact YOU who sees no problem with population transfers.
Israel wanted, at any cost to gather in as many Jews as possible. Don’t make it look like an act of charity.
Arab nations accepted Palestinian refugees but to ‘absorb’ them would have meant legitimising the Zionist take-over of Palestine.
No, the population transfer between Pakistan and India, which caused far more pain and suffering numbers-wise than what Jews and Arab suffered, by the way, was accepted by the international community as well as by these two nations within a very short span of time. Today, most people don’t even know it happened but are well aware of the Palestinian refugees of 1948 (much less than they know about the Jewish ones of that era, btw).
As for Israel doing or not doing charity, you miss the point. Israel, a country of 600,000 in 1948 had to an even greater number and had to do so under very difficulty circumstances. And yet they did absorb them. Arab states didn’t absorb Palestinians and the reasons, such as “legitimising the Zionist take-over of Palestine” are far more lame today then they were back then after the Arabs launched their 1947 and 1948 wars which led to the refugee problem. After all, you have 3rd and 4th generation Lebanese-born Arabs of Palestinian origin and they have a fraction of the rights of other Lebanese. And you are silent about this injustice, of course.
That whole post is tendentious from start to finish.
If people spend more time on I/P than the past Pakistan/India tragedy it is in part because the I/P conflict is ongoing.
Another other reason is that Isreal continues to be supported by countries that hypocritically bleat on about ‘Freedom/Democracy’, while supporting the ongoing dispossession of the Palestinians.
There is plenty of criticism of refugee treatment, BTW. Plenty.
Yep, and Japanese Americans werent put in internment camps until Pearl Harbor. 99% of Jews from Arab countries fled. A significant higher percentage than Arabs who fled Israel during the Nabka. But of course the phonies who claim to care about human rights rightly criticize the abuse of the Palestinians while excusing the abuse of the Jews. The hypocracy is stunning but of course typical.
The only “excusing of abuse of the Jews” and “hypocrisy” exists entirely in your head.
Nonsense. Saying well yes Jews were expelled but only after 48 is an excuse. Trying to pass off 99% of a population that had roots going back centuries as leaving because Israel encouraged them to is a willful falsehood and an excuse. The excusing is real. That you cant challange my point with anything substansive only proves it.
If so, then history constitutes an “excuse.” But Zionists have to go with such disingenuous silliness, because history is extremely unflattering to their ideology.
And Gil, you don’t remotely think that what I post is non-substantive. Rather, you are enormously unhappy about the massive amount of decidedly substantive history I document.
I certainly thought saying ““excusing of abuse of the Jews” and “hypocrisy” exists entirely in your head.” Was not substantive and certainly an excuse not to address the fact that Gert and yourself indeed excused the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries by saying 1948 happened first. The only one being disingenuous is you, as I have pointed out time and time again.
Um, your points do not contradict what I wrote, despite your silly anger.
The expulsions of Arab Jews would not have happened without prior Zionist agression, you know this as well as I do.
As regards your ‘we were there first’ spiel. I guess that makes you also an enthusiastic supporter of other first peoples causes, right?
Wrong: nothing is more chauvinistic and self-centred than a Zionist Jew.
About that “silly anger”.
If one had a magic wand and could make much of the dirty Zionist past disappear or call it quits, then looking at what Zionism is doing TODAY would be enough to cause righteous anger. It continues to steal land that doesn’t belong to it and has about 10 % of the Israeli Jewish population living outside of Israel proper.
I think you should put your cards on the table and tell us how you feel about that. Honesty demands, you know?
To Bar:
How about we let some devout Jewish people explain it to you.
See Jews Against Zionism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awCOSRg-gks
Those jews believe Israel should become jewish after the arrival of the messiah. Perhaps you need to do more research.
To Gil G:
Perhaps you need to not just make stuff up.
I am a citizen of the US, and I disapprove of much US policy. I am a Jew, and I disapprove of much Zionist policy.
This assault on freedom of expression will only pour fuel on the embers of antisemitism.
The big-shot, hubristic Jews who support and defend Zionist outrages will bring trouble upon Jews in general sooner or later. They are fools. They have learned nothing from history. “This time it’s different” is as wrong in politics as it is in economics.
In a world that sometimes seems insane, it is nice to hear your voice of reason.
I appreciate hearing your very reasonable voice, and I think your concerns are warranted, but I by no means wish to see such trouble befall any Jews.
I take very seriously the moral obligation to say often and loudly, that many, many Jews are people of good conscience and they are not to be conflated with Zionists in Israel. Or the vicious Israeli government.
If its about Zionism and not about Jews why do Jews in the US have anything to fear? Are you saying that so called “anti zionists” would take their displeasure at the support Israel receives from some Jews and use that as an excuse to physically attact any and all jews? Sounds like that anti zionist bunch has a problem with jews. Dont ya think Jerry?
Whether Jerry is saying that or not, I say it. People just like that are represented in the comments here and long have been. They certainly rhetorically attack any and all Jews. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them would either participate in physical attacks, or at not be much bothered by them.
Many avid Trump supporters do not actually give two shits about Palestinians. It’s all about the Jews — all of them.
Many on this board took up the Palestinian cause long before they took up the Trump cause.
Um, ok. And? Trump wasn’t running for office when antisemites like this began participating here. But they were ready and waiting.
Those of us in the pro-Palestinian movement have long known there were some of these in — or trying to be –our midst and many, such as Ali Abunimah, denounce them and keep them off his platform. This is not new to us and shouldn’t be to you.
One of those most instrumental for purging the (British) PSC from antisemites was Tony Greenstein. The thanks he got for that? To be told there was AS in the PSC… can’t win against unreason, I guess…
And your point is? Criticism of Israel starts in earnest (at least in Europe), well before Trumpism.
Trumpist antisemites are generally not interested in I/P: they just hate ‘non-American’ minorities tout court. Equal opportunity racism is their thing. Oh, and women, they hate them too…
Zionist Jews should change their mantra from “we will never forget” to “we will never learn”. I see no possible outcome that will end well for them from this.
As Zionism lobbies and implements their mandates in our political system, it is becoming evident that it’s political manifestation is incompatible with our American constitution.
I have been a Trump supporter, because the option was Hellary.
AIPAC owns congress, and they NOW apparently own the the President elect (no different than if Hellary had been elected).
Trump “promised to make allies pay their fair share of defense costs” but that does not seem to apply to Israel.
Trumps fault?Why?This is rethug demoncrat crap,not Trump,although I don’t expect him to shun them.
They are a very powerful lobby,Israel.
I know they absolutely no right to Jerusalem,let alone Israel itself,but if people think the zionists will give up at least most of Jerusalem,they haven’t paid attention,as these people are arrogant crazy knuckleheads with nukes.
And the Palestinians have no one in their corner but powerless civilians.
As Mel Brooks said,”It’s good to be the king!”
The author blames Trump for the alleged rise in antisemitism.
Are you disputing the deeply antisemitic alt-right strongly supports Trump and that Trump refuses to disavowe them?
“the Palestinians have no one in their corner but powerless civilians”
Hey they got unrepentant jew haters like yourself on their side as well.
They really don’t. Any prattle about Palestinians from such as these is pure means to the end of ranting against Jews. They won’t oppose Trump’s virulently Islamophobic statements and surrogates. They admire Trump for reasons of pure bigotry.
Mona has serious mental and logic problems.
I like Trump because he is an American nationalist who totally destroyed serial liars such as yourself.
Whatever antisemitism exists exists because of their actions,totally revealed by the absolute lack of any comparable comparison oif any other peoples on earth,although your serial liar friends have made Islam their pinata.
In fact,you are the worst thing about this site,as you are a liar,a rabid attack dog on those who don’t share your hypocrisy,and always misrepresenting peoples views as hate speech,when it is obvious you have enough hate to fill the Grand Canyon.
And to you and your fellow zionists(yes!),I hate no one,and have no objection to Israel other than that they control US in letting them run roughshod over the ME,and that leash meant 9-11,the refugee crisis,and the torture of the ‘Palestinians you emote daily over with you crocodile tears.
Your absence here lately was one of great joy to all but your lickspittle sycophants,btw.
This is a very good nutshell of your bigoted and uber-nationalist worldview:
You and the ardent Zionists are cut from the same rotted cloth, merely from different tribes.
You had at least one and most likely two other candidates on your ballot for President. Nobody was forcing you to support either of the wretched ruling party candidates. If we still have anything resembling free and fair elections in 2020, I hope you consider voting for something different for once.
Consider, for a moment, if the Senate had just passed a bill outlawing racist speech. Firstly, what a ludicrously unlikely law! (Yet we’re discussing an equivalent one which was just passed…) But aside from that, do you imagine that minorities would be pleased? Would they be encouraged that instances of racism and racist sentiments would fall by the way-side?
It seems that’s exactly what the bill’s passage implies, though: that we can fight anti-semitism by criminalizing its voice. Do you truly buy that that’s what those who voted this resolution through believe?
There is real anti-semitism and it’s ugly and should be discouraged and disparaged, but Israel is a country, not a religion.
I am sure some pro-Palestinians or Israeli critics are anti-semitic, just as I am sure some critics of Iran are anti-Muslim. However again, Israel is a state, and as a state it needs to be held accountable like any other.
One thing that should also be understood by those crying foul here – many of us are angry at Israeli policies not because we see them as some evil empire, but because we see them as our ally. We see them as being part our western family. Being a part of our family, what they do reflects on us. We don’t expect Iran to behave well because we are told everyday how bad they are. That is not true of Israel – we expect them to live up to western norms, and when they don’t we are rightly frustrated.
This is even further enhanced by the fact that without funding from the United States, Israel could not maintain their policies and much that they do is done with our weapons and our support. Our frustration toward Israel is not only about Israel, but our own elite and their priorities. It is because we feel what Israel does, it does in our name.
It’s sad in the end to see colleges, a place where one should most be able to speak their minds, become increasingly intolerant and insular in the name of tolerance. College is where young adults should be able to figure out who they are and what they believe, and that is a messy and complicated effort. To find oneself takes a certain intellectual freedom. A process that can never be fully completed if stymied by the well intentioned who won’t let them act as the adults that they are.
This article is amateur hour. Try hard not to demonstrate your and your boss’s bias against Israel and its supporters. The ADL, for example, is not an “Israeli advocacy group.” It is an American Jewish organization that has for decades attempted to fight bigotry in this country.
It so happens that “demonizing Israel” as it is defined in the State Dept.’s definition targets definite examples of antisemitism. The State Dept.’s definition also leaves open the door to endless criticism of Israel…as long as you don’t approach the criticism in a manner that targets the world’s only Jewish country as if you were, say, singling out Jews among all other people.
Oh, and contrary to this article’s clear bias, the reason this has become an issue is that on our campuses today Jewish students cannot live their lives as all other students do, unless of course, they join anti-Israel groups including one you listed as “critics” of this bill. The group you quoted, by the way, “Jewish” Voice for Peace (you don’t have to be Jewish to join it), has disturbed a Holocaust memorial event for Auschwitz with anti-Israel banners, and a gay Jewish group’s Sabbath event because it was perceived as affiliated with Israel. These are clearly antisemitic actions, but you quote this group as valid critics of a bill that labels these actions as antisemitic.
Maybe they are anti-semitic, but I also find that when someone makes their identity about their identity, they often fall into the trap of the carpenter who only has a hammer – looking at every problem as if it was a nail. Maybe this group is just a bunch of idiots. Maybe they are just against Israel and think that this is their twisted way to solve the problem. As an outsider I certainly do not see this as incontrovertible evidence beyond annoying stupidity. Not that I’m saying that it doesn’t mean they *couldn’t* be anti-semitic.
Anyway, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It’s easy to read extra motives into things if that’s what you’re looking for.
“Jewish” Voice for Peace is far from a “bunch of idiots.” They are smart, tenacious, well-funded and maximize potential for media coverage despite their small numbers, by, among other things, taking outrageous steps. It so happens they don’t care if those steps include attacking Holocaust commemoration events.
As for the “someone makes their identity blah blah blah,” permit me to propose to you that since Jews are the single most targeted group in the US, according to the FBI stats tracking attacks, it seems there are many people who seek out Jews regardless of what Jews are or aren’t doing. So did the Nazis. So did the Arab and Muslim countries in the 1940s and 1950s. We may be paranoid, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t targeted.
Ahh, yes, Israel may not be judged by a double standard, defined by the bill as criticisms which would not apply to any other democratic nation… I deny the validity of the implicit claim that Israel is an actual democratic nation outright. When one-fifth of the populace has a status of less-than-citizen – less human rights, less civil rights, less political rights, less economic opportunity – how can it seriously be considered democratic?? Outside of Israel itself, only the US seems to hold this view. The irony is, then, that the double standard is in the text of the bill itself! Or is it anti-semitic to say so now?
I’m sorry, but this is an ignorant comment. I don’t feel like Fisking it. Really. How about I point out that just several days ago, Ayman Odeh, the leader of the 13 person strong Arab party in the Knesset, boasted on Twitter that Israel’s top science university, a school often ranked in the top 100 or 200 schools in the world, presently has 25% Arab population and 35% of incoming female freshmen. Over the past couple of years, the highest matriculation scores in the country were scored not be Jews, but by Arab Christians. And you know who the group with second highest government support and funding is? Israeli Arabs. You know who has equal civil rights to Jews? Israeli Arabs. You know who has more rights than any other country in the Middle East? Israelis generally, including Israeli Arabs. And you know who says this loudly and clearly? The OECD and the EU, not just the US. I could continue if you like…
No, please don’t. The Israeli apologist song most hear know by heart (and turns most here’s stomachs)
There’s no getting round the fact that Israel maintain’s one of the longest standing military occupations in modern history. These occupied people have no political rights worth mentioning. That is the DEFINITION of anti-democratic, Bar.
Of course you support suppression of dissent on Israel on campus. Of course you do, arsehole.
Technically you are correct. However, seen as how often criticism of Israel/Zionism is conflated with antisemitism and that the ADL has frequently indulged in that practice, it’s safe and accurate to say that at least the ADL mimicks the behaviour of actual pro-Israel advocacy groups.
“Technically you are correct.”
Haha. All your noise and really, bottom line, you agree that my criticism of the author of this piece is 100% accurate. Thanks.
No, I don’t, idiot. Learn to read. Seriously.
Another communist fascist trick to control the people illegally. Think back – last time it was to allow the blocking of labeling of imported products – – to block the chance of the people boycotting them. . . . If you do not know where they come from you – you can not boycott that countries products……JUST ANOTHER COMMUNIST FASCIST TRICK…….welcome to Washington
It is incredibly disturbing that this bill was passed with no discussion, no debate and with very little coverage by the media given the clear First Amendment implications. The purpose of the bill is vague and the examples on the “Fact Sheet” are so ridiculously broad that just about ANY criticism of Israel (which by the way is not a religion but a Governmental entity) could be deemed anti semitic. Would similar speech against Iran or Rome be deemed anti Muslim or anti Christian? If the Senate passed a bill to establish similar perimeters to define anti Muslim speech they would be vilified beyond belief. Carters book would clearly have to be prohibited from College campuses if this actually becomes law. I personally will be very disappointed if Obama signs this. This country is getting more bizarre daily.
In today’s United States it seems that only criticism of Israel is treated as antisemitism, actual cases of antisemitism instead of political witch-hunt have become acceptable both to the mainstream and most Zionist organizations.
Certainly it sadly seems to have emboldened what we typically think of anti-semitism. The only thing we can hope is a little sunshine will help kill the pest. We know this stuff has been hiding in dog whistle territory. Problem is, sunshine sometimes cleanses, other times it help the pest grow.
““This is not how to fight anti-Semitism, …””
This is the problem; a constant meme of the need to fight against people who hate ‘OUR’ religion.
Of the 3 major Abrahimic religions, only one has not assimilated humanity. There are billions of Christians and Muslims but ~14 million Jews. This is the problem. Jews view themselves as a race. Pfft. Humanity is a braided river.
Israel’s actions affirm the historical view of Jews. Israel has never not stolen land and it does so even today; every day.
The Jews are a race. The land that they control today the whole land 100% of the land belongs to them. Remember that.
It does now but mostly by theft. Ongoing theft.
Only racists still believe in ‘races’. Jews are definitely a People but that doesn’t make them a ‘race’ in the biological sense (biological races don’t exist: there’s only the human species, Homo Sapiens)
Religion ? Is that the scam where you pray , kill ,, give money to .
A BS thing impressed on you by your parents , their parents , etc.
Look we either live together or die together . Time is running out folks ,
either we get our act together ..NOW!! ,, or the human experiment goes into Nature’s MISTAKE GARBAGE BAG !!!
Jew , Jewish Isrealite, Semite ? Who knows ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld6fAO4idaI
For the love of God, stop flooding the comment sections with the same link to an irrelevant music video.
“Fool me once…”
I don’t follow…
“For the love of God, stop flooding the comment sections with the same link to an irrelevant music video.”
‘Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.’
It’s an old saying.
I’m well-familiar with the aphorism. I just don’t seem how it applies here.
Easy….Don’t click the link.
1. Israeli detention policy amounts to genocide
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/02/496113/Palestine-Israel-Prisoners-Hunger-Strike-Hall
2. Moving the US embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem is a declaration of war.
3. i witnessed the eagerness by which Mitt Romney spoke of Donald Trump which can only mean one thing the Jerusalem Theme Park deal is back on.
4. George Soros, TPP, U$D. Maybe DT can do what hillary couldn’t.
5. i’m putting in a request to have my fortune cookie wording changed from
may you live in interesting timestomay you not live in terrifying times
6. if the israelis and right wingers and radical islamic terrorists and the willing sponsors of nazi styled oppression really are that determined for the ultimate fight otherwise known as armageddon, Kim Jung Un is going to sit back and enjoy the show.
7. perhaps i will check into a mad house which may be the sanest place on the planet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld6fAO4idaI
“Critics have pointed out that those are political — not racist — positions, shared by a significant number of Jews, and qualify as protected speech under the First Amendment of the Constitution.”
That’s a moot point. Racist positions/hate speech are also protected under the First Amendment. You can’t argue for freedom of speech while allowing a foot in the door for its subversion.
I have to agree, as odious as it would be. I would give my $$$ to the ACLU to protect the KKK as much as I would give it to them to protect BLM. The answer to unpleasant political speech, is contrary political speech.
This is, among other things, pure unadulterated cowardice on the part of those who just can’t acknowledge the injustice and violence perpetrated on the Palestinians by the Israeli state. And if follows that it would be done by politicians in the US who also refuse to acknowledge the injustice and violence visited upon Muslims around the world by the US and its allies.
Hmmm, this article reads weird given most of the Intercept’s work and the fact that the bill makes it clear that it is aimed critiques against the country that are clearly based on hate and not fact.
I could give you a quote about why this bill is incredibly important in light of who we just elected and the cabinet we have just elected. I frankly think this is tremendous, and we need more stuff like this (a) labeling the KKK a hate/terrorist group and (b) making it illegal to be a part of any hate group period.
Lived in Israel for 3 years as a kid. AMA. @Frank, these things HAVE been all over social media, facebook, news sites. Have a search.
@Michael – yea, your comment is bullshit. Let me enlighten you :)
@Frank – i’d actually estimate based on the limited amount I’ve seen, read and heard about on news sites, and fb, etc. that it is much prevalent than 800-1000. I know it’ s uncomfortable to acknowledge that evil exists and is pretty rampant, but… evil exists and it’s pretty rampant.
1. Most “Jews” are not “Jewish” at all. They don’t care for religion, they don’t practice it, they just happen to have last names that they haven.’t changed.
2. Israel in general, truly is a society that simply wants to live and let live. Like all societies, there are radical groups (cough cough, our new president Elect Trump, and his White Supremacist cabinet), that can have a voice, but I can assure you these people really just want to live quietly and peacefully. How you handle constant terror attack from all angles (and countries/groups/political parties who openly “want to wipe you off the face of the earth is tough”) but pretending they are an apartheid state is the kind of “repeat rhetoric” someone as smart as you shouldn’t engage in. It’s silly. The Israeli military goes to serious pre-caution (and yes, they make mistakes) to avoid killing civilians, so no, this is a baseless, and frankly incendiary comment.
If you have ideas on how to handle life in the region from a political perspective, we are all ears. Any government’s first job is to protect it’s citizens, and some argue they cross the line. You can do that, as a normal human being. The state exists because Nazi’s (and countries from all over the world) were killing these people. And it hopes to exist in peace to protect itself. So, let me say this clearly. Stop.
The state of Israel only exist because it was taken from the people of Palestine by the British Empire and given to the Jewish people. That is the only reason.
Right you are! But to go a step further, the gift of the Palestinian land by the UN was not completed to a legal disposition (if the UN being able to take from one people and give to another can be called legal) as it was not sanctioned by the UN Security Council and hasn’t been to this day. So, the portion of Palestine the ashkinazi-convert jews from Europe call israel is an illegal entity. Ergo…can criticism of an illegal entity be called anti-semitic? Inherently not and those that try to shove this BS down our throats need to be sent packing from their comfy DC boudoirs next election cycle if not sooner.
2016 Senate reelection rate;90%,House,96%.
@daholt // yea, it’s crazy. i actually think one of the most powerful tools in the general citizen’s toolbelt is to make it more clear to our district reps that they will lose their seat (AKA their power!) if we don’t approve of how they fight/don’t fight on behalf of what we believe is important.
i think putting pressure on our respective representatives (which we usually ignore) is really one of the only true weapons we have.
but oddly we don’t seem to do it 0_0
take care, and thanks for sharing.
i must have you mixed up with someone or something else. it’s late, i’m tired and my eyes arent 100%. Please forgive my error. Thank you.
95 % gibberish. Well done!
Hey, so here is the thing. I’m very familiar with the history of the region, but at this point the political parties in power in Palestine are openly bent on the destruction of Israeli people so it’s a tough one. Acting like children and screaming “APARTHEID” when the evidence doesn’t stack up isn’t going to help.
I totally understand that it’s fucking bullshit for land to be cut and sliced.
However, that’s no excuse for wanting to “wipe these people off the map and into the sea” and the constant hatred. It doesn’t make sense! It’s simply evil at that point!
And as the bill pointed out, criticizing the country of Israel is 100% allowed. Seriously, check the bill.
This article was a bit of a scam job. The headline, the picture, the quotes were all designed to make you angry and perpetuate the author’s view, but as we’ve learned more than ever recently, you can’t take what reporters say as gospel, since they too often have an agenda these days.
@Gert – huh? I’m sorry my post was hard to follow. I made a few different points, and some of my comments were meant to be to specific people. I didn’t realize this thread would turn into an ironically massive bash Israel policy while people simultaneously say anti-semitism isn’t an issue at all.
But yes, for all the big boys and girls, they are two different things. Which is why the bill even made it clear
I once was in college too and understand how easy it is for Israel to get typecast as a villain here. It often goes hand in hand with all of the other views that the Intercept takes (which I for the most part agree with). But this one is lost in translation from the region to here. It is a country where the vast majority of the civilians simply want to live in peace; have no interest in being in a mandatory military at 18 (girls included), etc.
Please don’t perpetuate hateful myths and bash the most open /liberal country in the region. They make mistakes and are not perfect but to go off on these people because they were persecuted, given land (not their choice on how it happened! – so if you want to say fuck Britain! do it!), and then got attacked by 7 countries and kept getting attacked.
At some point, I would hope there would be a live and let live situation. BUT unfortunately Hamas, and the ruling groups in Palestine have risen to power by (a) offering real shelter and real resources and (b) preaching hate and desire to wipe out the “common enemy.” It’s strangely, although much more boldly and on face, what Trump is doing now, with the “Muslim threat.”
Like I said, I lived there for several years, feel free to ask me anything.
All of you seem very intelligent, but don’t rush in so hard to bash people all the time. And use Occam’s Razor more ;)
Peace and love to all.
this is interesting
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/land-ours-says-israels-top-diplomat-citing-religious-texts
How many Palestinians have you killed?
Be proud! If it’s a really high number please also give estimate of how many more you expect to kill and especially how many you would like to kill.
ps – you can keep your peace and love, i dont need it, got my own brand
There’s been no surge in anti-semitism, just political opportunists hyping one of the last issues that they have to distract people from what they’re doing. The democrats just lost the Presidential election in part because young people are more cynical of politics than they have been in the past, so what do the democrats do? Double down on the hypocrisy and fill their leadership positions with elitists who aren’t liked by the base of the party. It’s gonna be a long eight years under President Trump, because the democrats will undoubtedly continue their long tradition of being spineless wimps.
“… a wave of anti-Semitic hate incidents … ”
Yeah, right. 800-1000 “hate crime” incidents, and they all happened in places where there are no CCTV cameras and nobody was on the scene with a cell phone. LOL
If this shit was for real, it would be all over Youtube and social media. All I see is still-shots of spraypaint and other vandalism which the anti-Trump crowd could be doing to discredit his supporters.
‘“applying double standards” to Israel’
Would this include saying nothing when they take actions we would have criticized if happening in apartheid South Africa?
In a comment to me under a different thread and responding to a tweet I shared announcing the passage of this bill, rrheard did a good job dissecting the problems the DoE will have in enforcing it.
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/30/growing-far-right-nationalistic-movements-are-dangerously-anti-muslim-and-pro-israel/?comments=1#comment-317242
The fucking jooz, the self proclaim CHOSEN people of God, and their Zionist nation that tortures and puts Palestinian children in jail and cuts the fresh water of that huge Panopticon they have created and called the ‘Occupied territories.
The jooz who spray shit on the palestinian homes, and kill indiscriminantly. Israel which has become a nation of nazis.
Who have made it illegal in sovereign nations like Canada and the USA to speak out about their apartheid processes. Their hate filled religion. The hatred of goy.
Well fuck the jooz. And fuck Israel.
There religion is violence. Their God is a cruel fascist, and hate filled racist misogynist.
This a bullshit comment.
Conflating all Jews everywhere with the actions of the Israeli and/or US government is anti-semitism. Plain and simple.
If it is true that all Jews are responsible for every reprehensible thing Israel has done, then it is also true that you and I are responsible for every death the US has caused and that’s a pretty fucking huge bill to pay, let me tell you.
Every religion on the planet has been abused in service to hate filled racist misogyny. Every. Last. One.
Ditto
Uhhhh “every” religion?? Please don’t insult Pastafarianism that way! The Flying Spaghetti Monster has NEVER fallen prey to this hate-filled racism you speak of. Please retract your statement, sir/madam.
“Every religion on the planet has been abused in service to hate filled racist misogyny. Every. Last. One.”
The carnage perpetrated today by Jews is orders of magnitudes greater than the carnage perpetrated by Muslims.
The rate of killing by Jews is staggering when you consider there are well over a billion Muslims but just 14 million Jews.
Jews killed 250-300 to one during Gaza 2014. The majority were innocent. The Romans stopped at about 100 to one in retaliation killings. The Nazis realized that about 10 to one got the message across (German train schedule-like efficiency).
Israel, well, … they do not seem to be able to help themselves. But then Jewish fingernails are the scale by which Arab lives are measured, according to the IDF.
“nuf said”… “nut said”, more like…
Um that’s not really helping. And definitely not parts conflating implicitly or explicitly that all people of the Jewish faith agree with the actions of the government of the State of Israel.
Sincerely, please knock it off.
um, so someone is ‘approved’ to post by you (and the self-appointed litter box monitor otherwise known as moana) only if they have something YOU believe will ‘help’ the situation in some unknown fashion ? ? ?
(REALLY ? ? ? the UN security council are monitoring this comment section to detrrmine their course of action on this issue ? ? ? gtfoh)
said poster is NOT allowed to post yheir own rant for whatever reason motivates thrm ? ? ?
well, that isn’t arrogant and controlling on your part at all…
oh, and fuck a bunch of zionazis, as soon as they sacrifice their red heifer, we’ll see how much their non-zionazi fellow citizens repudiate them…
or not…
Nope not trying to “approve” any post. Just sharing my opinion that that sort of rhetoric helps no one.
But if you think that sort of rhetoric it does assist in any end, please explain what “end” that sort of rhetoric assists in advancing.
I’ll wait.
2nd
And this ladies and gentlemen is why legislation like this is counterproductive, dangerous and irresponsible.
People start conflating so much that real anti-semitism is fostered in them, either when they have a tendency to bigotry or when they simply can’t stand injustice/oppression.
Same thing when you don’t call a spade a spade in terms of islamic terrorism. Obama doesn’t want to protect moderate muslims, he just wants to refrain from branding certain groups (for example ahrar al sham in syria) in order to justify sending them arms, training them and cooperating with them, cause they are useful to him.
Meanwhile people start conflating normal people with so-called “rebels” like that, because they state they want sharia law and sunni hegemony and they use force to get there. This leads to situations where people are asking themselves whether this is supposed to be moderate and the bigots go all “see I told you they all want sharia law!!!111″.
Fucken irresponible and despicable.
In Germany btw. people are prosecuted for aiding this group, but when the “coalition” does so, nobody seems to give a fuck.
Good… Good… Let the hate flow THROUGH you!!
It’s difficult to tell whether people posting stuff like this are genuine bigots or hasbara stooges trying to spread more anti-semitism for them to point to.
I don’t think u care so much about the fakeastinians as much as you hate the joooooz lol
Sounds like someone is taking the Zionist shekel. As mentioned earlier, unless Trump rids America of Zionists, he will fail, America will continue to degenerate, and eventually it will fall. Of the 22 known imperial civilizations in history, 21 of them collapsed from within.
Now that is anti-semitic and completely silly and paranoid if you think about it. There is no hidden cabal of Zionists. There are no star chambers.
Like I said this piece of crap legislation, should it be enacted, will get struck down faster than you can say “WTF is a double standard, in relation to which nations are considered ‘democratic’ nations, and who gets to decide on both”.
Guess it means I can both “judge” and compare Israel to the US, and Israel to Apartheid South Africa (not ‘democratic’), Russia and China (‘democratic’ or not) so long as I hold Israel to the same standard and make the same criticisms. That’s no problem for me or most people.
This is the most ‘vague’ and ‘overbroad’ piece of crap legislation to be vomited forth from either the Senate or House I’ve seen in a very long time. And even a conservative majority Supreme Court is likely to spank its bottom out of existence the minute it comes across the Supremes’ desks.
Will all the Israel uber alles groups who think they will be getting a big “PR victory” if this passes see it as a “PR defeat” when it gets struck down?
Feinstein just joined the judicial committee to bring her Zionist influence into the selection process of Supreme Court nominees. Unfortunately if our Supreme Court becomes stacked with devout Zionists, the Supreme Court could become an enabler of constitutional abuses, as opposed to a check on those abuses.
There’s a name for shit like this. It’s called fascism. Pure and simple. We need to ask ourselves if we want to have a repeat of the 20th century, because, fuck it. I don’t know about you but I don’t like running in fucking circles.
No, this is protection ValkLeroux. Read the bill! Crazy idea I know …
And @alexanderemmons, are you serious with the photo you are using in connection with your piece? and aware that you are throwing gasoline on a very specific fire with the angle you are taking here? C’mon my man. We need you to be a leader! You could have written about this piece being a relief in these dark times and hopeful we get more; or explain how this is a religious group that is oft persecuted, etc. etc. etc. anyhoo…
Shove that bill up your arse. Any government that tells me that I’m not allowed to criticise their policies under the guise of their perceived persecution, can go and fuck themselves. Fascism is fascism. Not all Jews are Zionist fuck heads.