Democrats sincere about opposing anti-Muslim bigotry should denounce these ugly attacks on Ellison.
Ever since he announced his candidacy to lead the Democratic National Committee, Keith Ellison, the first American Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress, has been the target of a defamation campaign that is deceitful, repugnant, and yet quite predictable. At first expressed in whispers, but now being yelled from the rooftops by some of the party’s most influential figures, Ellison is being smeared as both an anti-Semite and enemy of Israel — the same smears virtually any critic of the Israeli government reflexively encounters, rendered far worse if the critic is a prominent American Muslim.
Three days ago, the now ironically named Anti-Defamation League pronounced Ellison’s 2010 comments about Israel “deeply disturbing and disqualifying.” Other Israel advocates have now joined in. What are Ellison’s terrible sins? He said in a 2010 speech that while he “wanted the U.S. to be friends with Israel,” the U.S. “can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM.”
Stop, you know why are we sending a mill — $2.8 billion dollars a year over there when they won’t even honor our request to stop building in East Jerusalem? Where is the future Palestinian state going to be if it’s colonized before it even gets up off the ground? …
… Now you got Clinton, Biden, and the president who’s told them — stop. Now this has happened before. They beat back a president before. Bush 41 said — stop, and they said — we don’t want to stop, and by the way we want our money and we want it now. [Ellison laughs.] Right? You know, I mean we can’t allow, we’re Americans, right? We can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM. Right? And so we ought to stand up as Americans.
Equally sinful in the eyes of the ADL was this statement on U.S. foreign policy:
The United States foreign policy in the Middle East is governed by what is good or bad through a country of 7 million people. A region of 350 million all turns on a country of 7 million. Does that make sense? [A male says “no.”] Is that logic? Right? When the people who, when the Americans who trace their roots back to those 350 million get involved, everything changes.
As J.J. Goldberg of The Forward noted, Ellison wasn’t lamenting the insidious influence of U.S. Jews — as the ADL shamefully claimed — but rather was “plainly describing how American Muslims could have greater influence on American policy if they learned to organize.”
And agree or disagree with those positions, it is an indisputable fact that Israel receives far more in U.S. aid than any other country yet continually does exactly that which numerous U.S. presidents have insisted it not do, often to the detriment of U.S. interests. And many prominent foreign policy experts — including David Petraeus — have warned that excessive U.S. support for the worst actions of the Israeli government endangers U.S. national security by alienating Arabs in the region and fueling support for anti-American terrorism. The idea that a member of Congress is not permitted to debate these policies without being branded an anti-Semite is sheer insanity: malicious insanity at that.
But that insanity is par for the course in Washington, where anyone who even questions U.S. policy toward Israel is smeared in this way — from James Baker to Howard Dean to Bernie Sanders and even Donald Trump. So pernicious is this framework that the U.S. Senate just passed legislation expressly equating what it regards as unfair criticism of the Israeli government with “anti-Semitism.” And when one is an American Muslim, ugly stereotypes and pervasive Islamophobia are added to this toxic brew to make the smears worse by many magnitudes.
This smear campaign against Ellison received a major boost Friday night when the single largest funder of both the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Israeli-American billionaire Haim Saban, said at the Brookings Institution, a part of which he funds: “If you go back to his positions, his papers, his speeches, the way he has voted, he is clearly an anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual.” Saban added: “Keith Ellison would be a disaster for the relationship between the Jewish community and the Democratic Party.”
That Saban plays such a vital role in Democratic Party politics says a great deal. To the New York Times, this is how he described himself: “I’m a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel.” In late 2015, Ali Gharib wrote in The Forward: “Saban’s top priority isn’t a liberal vision of American life. It’s Israel.” When Hillary Clinton in 2015 condemned the boycott movement aimed at ending Israeli settlements, she did it in the form of a letter addressed personally to Saban.
The Democratic Party’s central reliance on billionaire funders like Saban is a key reason that debates over Israel policy are not permitted within the party. It’s why any attempt to raise such issues will prompt systematic campaigns of reputation destruction like the one we’re witnessing with Ellison.
To get a sense for just how prohibited the most benign and basic debates are when it comes to Israel, consider the quotes from Ellison’s college days dug up by CNN as supposedly incriminating. In 1990, while a law student at the University of Minnesota, Ellison blasted the university president for condemning a speaking event featuring the anti-Zionist civil rights icon Kwame Ture (also known as Stokely Carmichael); Ellison’s argument was that all ideas, including Zionism, should be regarded as debatable in a college environment:
The University’s position appears to be this: Political Zionism is off-limits no matter what dubious circumstances Israel was founded under; no matter what the Zionists do to the Palestinians; and no matter what wicked regimes Israel allies itself with — like South Africa. This position is untenable.
In other words, Ellison — 26 years ago, while a student — simply argued that college campuses should not be deemed “safe spaces” in which debates over Israel are barred: an utterly mainstream view when the topic to be debated is something other than Israel.
Leave aside the bizarre attempt to use someone’s college-aged political activism against them three decades later. As my colleague Zaid Jilani very ably documented several days ago, even the most inflammatory of Ellison’s campus statements — including his long-ago-renounced praise for the Nation of Islam — were grounded in righteous opposition to “white supremacy and the policies of the state of Israel” and “show him expressing sympathy for the plight of underprivileged whites and making clear that he was not antagonistic toward Jewish people.” Writing about the smear campaign circulating on the internet against Ellison, The Forward’s Goldberg said he found “the evidence to be either frivolous, distorted or simply false.”
As CNN itself acknowledged when digging up these old Ellison quotes: “None of the records reviewed found examples of Ellison making any anti-Semitic comments himself.” How is that, by itself, not the end of the controversy?
The reason why it isn’t is a glaring irony. With the advent of Donald Trump and policies such as banning all Muslims from the country, Democrats this year incorporated anti-Islamophobia rhetoric into their repertoire. Yet what is being done to Ellison by the ADL, Saban, and others is Islamophobia in its purest and most classic form.
Faiz Shakir is a senior adviser to Harry Reid who previously worked for Nancy Pelosi and the ThinkProgress blog at the Center for American Progress. He explains, from personal experience, that the vile treatment to which Ellison is now being subjected is common for American Muslims in political life:
Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
— Faiz (@fshakir) December 3, 2016
I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I joined @NanyPelosi's office. https://t.co/pf5ChX1nyE
— Faiz (@fshakir) December 3, 2016
At @thinkprogress, we were absurdly labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
— Faiz (@fshakir) December 3, 2016
Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill in the Bush White House.
— Faiz (@fshakir) December 3, 2016
See how even @GroverNorquist has been unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
— Faiz (@fshakir) December 3, 2016
Now it's Ellison's turn. At some point, this has to stop. So glad @SenSchumer, @rweingarten, others are not backing down to pressure.
— Faiz (@fshakir) December 3, 2016
In that last tweet, Shakir is referring to the fact that, to their credit, other Democratic voices — such as American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten, J Street, and, most important, Chuck Schumer — continue to defend Ellison. J Street’s statement made the critical point: “It is time to retire the playbook that aims to silence any American official seeking high office who has dared to criticize certain Israeli government policies.”
But even these commendable defenses of Ellison illustrate how constricted the permissible range of views on Israel is within the Democratic Party. J Street vouched for Ellison by saying that he “is and has long been a friend of Israel” and is “a champion of pro-Israel, pro-peace policies.” Schumer went further, saying that while he disagrees with Ellison on numerous issues, “I saw him orchestrate one of the most pro-Israel platforms in decades.” Notably, demonstrating steadfast support for the polices of the Israeli government is literally a job requirement to lead the Democratic National Committee — and for every other significant position in Washington.
But Ellison has actually fulfilled that requirement. Even his opponents admit: “Ellison unambiguously self-identifies as pro-Israel, supports a two-state solution without reservation, has repeatedly said that Israel has a right to defend itself and expressed the importance of protecting and maintaining Israel’s security, and there is no evidence that he has ever supported or advocated for BDS.” It’s true that, as Jay Michaelson wrote in an excellent Daily Beast column, Ellison “has been critical of Israeli settlements, of right-wing Israeli governments, and of America’s unconditional support for Israel.” But even his Israel advocacy is rather banal, as Goldberg wrote:
It must be acknowledged that Ellison’s first loyalty in the Middle East is not to Israel. He is a Muslim, and he makes no secret of his sympathy for the Palestinians. That said, he is a Muslim peacenik. Since entering politics, he has consistently spoken out in favor of the two-state solution, by which he means Israel and a Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security. He’s been active on that front, frequently partnering with J Street and other liberal Zionist groups on efforts to promote peace and security.
In other words, Ellison is a mainstream liberal Democrat, albeit situated on the left wing of the party as it is currently constituted in Congress (which is not very far to the left given that Nancy Pelosi resides in a nearby ideological precinct).
What makes him such an easy and vulnerable target for smear campaigns such as the one Saban and the ADL are pursuing is that he is Muslim — a black Muslim to boot. Just look at the obvious codes in this paragraph from Michael J. Koplow, the policy director of the Israel Policy Forum, writing in Haaretz under the headline “Keith Ellison Has a Real Israel Problem”:
Ellison is not a figure whom anyone would normally expect to be a supporter of Israel. He is an African-American Muslim who did not grow up in a particularly Jewish area of the country, came of age after 1967, when Israel’s image as a David began shifting to that of a Goliath, did not have any prominent Jewish mentors, and has a background in radical politics. As a student, he was harshly critical of Zionism and its legitimacy.
While Koplow cites these facts not to endorse the stereotypes but to affirm Ellison’s bona fides as someone one would not expect to be an Israel supporter, those are the demographic attributes giving the fuel to this revolting campaign. As Michaelson, who previously worked with the ADL, acknowledged: “There’s plenty of Islamophobia within my Jewish community as well,” and “the ADL is a perfect example,” citing the group’s shameful opposition to the construction of a mosque in lower Manhattan.
If you’re a Democrat, it’s easy to embrace the language of anti-Islamophobia when it comes to condemning Donald Trump and other Republicans. It’s more difficult, but more important, to do so when that poison is coming from within the Democratic Party itself.
One of the few silver linings of the ugly Trump rhetoric on Muslims can and should be (and has been) a unified rejection of this sort of toxicity, regardless of where it comes from. Democrats who are sincere about wanting to oppose anti-Muslim bigotry can do so by defending Keith Ellison from these incredibly ugly, baseless, and defamatory attacks.
Again and again I say, support Keith. He is honest and has done everything he can to support good policy, not stooped to the level of character assassinations like we’re seeing out of those with a SINGLE AGENDA – Israel. Americans are tired of PAYING the way of those who do not honor in any way the rights of ALL people to have a voice and a choice in their ruling class. To be critical of Government when it is WRONG should be considered using truly high standards of balanced thinking. As we can see, quite the opposite of those who basically DEMAND they get their way – period – like Saban’s attitude. A basically fascist attitude is not what I want to see in my Democratic Party Leaders. Keith Ellison is a great example of FAIR MINDED, BALANCED thinking. What we need in the Party right now. And he supports the Working Class of this nation OVER the RICH ELITES that SABAN represents!
There is more “Evidence” of anti-semitism by Ellison than Bannon that I can publicly find and since Bannon works with mosty jewish people and hires jewish gay Milo-he’s a jerk-my question is how many jewsish people work/hired directly by Ellison?
Might be good for Ellison to be DNC head but we must use consistent standards when judging people and compared to some of the Bannon coverage this is shockly pro lopsided.
I love Glenn & The Intercept but more consistent standards would be nice.
How come the mostly white, male and rich and powerful Democratic Party Power Elite don’t want Ellison as the new DNC head? Because he’s a Muslim. Of course, they’re never publically admit that. Because if did they’d be labeled as racist. So instead they dance around the issue in their various soundbites on the cable news shows.
Remember. Chuck “I’ve Never Met a TV Camera that I Didn’t Like” Schumer is the new Democratic Senate head. Everything revolves around him. Schumer also thinks that Israel’s Gaza Occupation is a good thing. It’ll keep those damn Palestinians in line.
Gaza is not occupied. There are zero Israelis in Gaza.
jack
.. or airports, for that matter.
No sympathy for the Donald,right?
He just went through the biggest smear campaign in American history,and won!
From the exact same people who are against,Ellison,Chas Freeman,Jimmy Carter and Max Blumenthal.And so many others .
d`hoit
re: ‘smear campaign’
Is one considered ‘smeared’ when one is caught w/ one’s chones exposed as a result of one’s boasting of one’s prowess w/ one’s vagina snatching?
#pussygate
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/309415-afl-cio-endorses-ellison-for-dnc-chair
The AFL-CIO endorsed Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) to take over a Democratic National Committee (DNC) that was rocked by scandal during the 2016 campaign season.
Ellison is seen as an early frontrunner in the race for DNC chairman, having secured union support and endorsements from incoming Senate Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.).
@Aggrieved
Thank you for the links to the reviews at The London Review of Books — there’s some very good reading there about the pest called “troll.” From your first, the review of Schadenfreude with Bite, my emphasis:
“If anything unites trolls, cyber-sexists and conspiracy theorists, it is that they are out to derail the conversation…”
And with that derailment, they claim “victory.”
Easy to win with this dynamic – do not engage.
Yes, I had especially noted those sentences.
On Keith Ellison, should he get the job? It depends on what the job entails. If getting money, and getting money first and foremost out of the Democrats’ biggest pro-Apartheid billionaire donor, is the job description, then perhaps he isn’t the person for the job.
There’s really two issues, raising money, and what that money is used for. Now Ellison, like Bernie Sanders, is perfectly capable of raising money 27 dollars at a time. But then that money wouldn’t be coming from a few super-rich donors with an obsession on promoting Israeli apartheid. It would be coming from ordinary Americans who wanted to see a return on their investment in the form of better government. Would the Democrats be willing to do that? Remains to be seen.
Sometimes it seems nothing ever changes on the Israeli apartheid file but recently the “is Zionism the same as antisemitism” debate has started to go mainstream.
Of course Zionism isn’t antisemitism, so defenders of apartheid are reduced to writing comedy such as the following:
You see, what Elliot Abrams is saying…
(yes, the same guy who was convicted in the Iran Contra affair),
…is that human rights are the highest form of authority, and so, that is why, criticizing apartheid, the denial of human rights to millions of people, be it in South Africa, or Israel, is equal to antisemitism.
The proof? Nazis used pseudoscience to discriminate against Jews, so naturally Abrams and his source, a “Rabbi Sacks” say it follows that modern human rights arguments are the new pseudoscience. The more human rights abuses the Israeli government carries out against non-Jews, the more antisemitism Abrams sees in the human rights community.
How’s that for comedy?
By the way, I was going to write something about police brutality against the indigenous people in the US, but I don’t know how to do that without appearing antisemitic!!!
Elliot Abrahams is a crook, a liar and a serial-lawbreaker.
I’m Jewish, and I still think Abrahams sucks.
That is all I have ever known him to do.
Mona: at lrb.co.uk: It is a free read:
Schadenfreude with Bite
Richard Seymour
This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things: Mapping the Relationship between Online Trolling and Mainstream Culture by Whitney Phillips
MIT, 256 pp, £10.00, September, ISBN 978 0 262 52987 7
Gendertrolling: How Misogyny Went Viral by Karla Mantilla
Praeger, 280 pp, £32.00, August 2015, ISBN 978 1 4408 3317 5
Bad Clowns by Benjamin Radford
New Mexico, 188 pp, £12.00, February, ISBN 978 0 8263 5666 6
Trolls: An Unnatural History by John Lindow
Reaktion, 60 pp, £9.99, August 2015, ISBN 978 1 78023 565 3
Where’s the Islamophobic language to condemn?
It looks to me like he’s getting the same treatment anyone gets that criticizes Israel and wants to work in government.
Also weaving identity politics into conspiracy theories with Muslims and political opponents playing the starring role is way too hot right now for Ellison to be anything other than a gift to the Republican party and particular the president elect during the next four years and at the election, that I’ll be shocked if it actually happens. Do Republicans need gifts? They have everything. I mean we know minorities are a target right now.
Until democrats or just decent people figure out how to neutralize the attention to identity politics (or group trials) its only going to get worse which is difficult to imagine but also not so much.
Personally, I think it dulls history to claim that criticizing Israel is an equivalent to the horrors of antisemitism. You can understand the paranoia towards western countries and religions but responding to criticism of a country and usually military aid looks like something else with the current expansionist, one religion and people only and don’t criticize the nation realities. How did that happen.
So- that’s aa confession that the comments here are carefully screened to limit discussion to ‘hasbara-v-not hasbara’ while avoiding the larger discussion of ‘ADL smear campagns-v- everyone, behind their back?’
Somethin’ smells a bit of lashon haara proibitions around here.
WATCH: ‘Alt Right’ Leader Silences Rabbi by Tying White Supremacy to Zionism
There is no effective answer.
Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.
If Zionism is not the answer, what is?
Whatever the answer is, it cannot involve ethnically cleansing another people. It cannot involve locking them n an open air prison. It cannot involve ethno-religious supremacy.
Historically, there were several flavors of Zionism; the fascist, political Zionism that prevailed has grossly corrupted Jewish ethics, and caused many of Jews to become lying shills, like you. That is a horror quite independent of the devastation political Zionism has meant for the Palestinians.
I’ll (again) let Albert Einstein — who advocated a spiritual Zionism in which Jews shared the Holy Land with the other two religions representing The People of the Book — address you, my emphasis:
Before the proposed [UN] “Partition” could materialize, Zionist [Chaim] Weizmann demanded that all Arabs be deported to Jordan, an idea that was opposed by Einstein and resulted in further differences between the two of them. Describing Jewish nationalism as guided by militarism and conservatism, Einstein even compared it with Prussia in a letter to Weizmann: “Without honest cooperation with the Arabs there is no peace and no security. This is for the long range politics and not for the present times. In the last analysis, even if we were not practically defenseless, it would not be worthy of us to want to maintain a nationalism a la Prussienne.”
Einstein became bitterly opposed not just towards Weizmann (who went on to become the first President of Israel), but also towards the more liberal Zionists such as Selig Brodetsky, whom Einstein characterized as a “Mussolini”. Brodetsky defended himself as a socialist and as an “outspoken opponent of any form of chauvinism and militarism in connection with the Zionist movement”, but Einstein saw through the motives of such Zionists and criticized Brodetsky vociferously: “What I have against your talk is less what you have done but more what you have left unsaid. What’s missing is an analysis of the cause of the reaction of the Arab world against us – without which the question, in my conviction, cannot be solved.”….
It was not any political power that Einstein wanted to see instituted in the Arab land. Refusing to be deluded by the Zionist propaganda, he was increasingly becoming concerned about the safety of the Arab people in Palestine. In a letter to Bernard Lecache in May 1930, Einstein wrote, “With regard to the question of Palestine, my most eager wish would be that, by policies preserving the legitimate interests of the Arabs, the Jews might succeed in proving that the Jewish people has managed to learn something from its own past, long ordeal.” In the same year, he wrote to Hugo Bergmann, “Only direct cooperation with the Arabs can create a dignified and safe life. If the Jews don’t comprehend this, the whole Jewish position in the complex of Arab countries will become step by step untenable.”
Although immigration of Jewish people to the Arab land was becoming legally inevitable, Einstein proposed there should be a limit to that. In a letter to Edward Freed, he wrote in 1932, “I am not a nationalist and I do not wish any discrimination of the Arabs in Palestine. The Jewish immigration to Palestine in the framework of ‘suitable limits’ can’t do harm to anyone.” The ‘limits’ were opposed by many Zionists of the time, principally by the anticommunist and Jewish nationalist Ze’ev Jabotinsky. Einstein attacked them as Fascists and in a letter to the Zionist Beinish Epstein, he accused them of “borrowing from the Fascists…
In 1938, he declared his priorities based on that: “I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state…” These sentiments are more relevant today as the Gaza wars continue to oppress the Arabs in the name of defending the state of Israel. Back then, Einstein had warned the Jewish people not to fall into the trap of nationalism, and the following excerpt of his commentary sums it up:******** “The essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power..I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain – especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state. A return to a nation in the political sense of the word would be equivalent to turning away from the spiritualization of our community…”******…
Einstein sharply attacked these Jewish militants and said “I regard them as a disaster. I’m not willing to see anybody associated with those misled and criminal people”, in an interview with I.Z. David.
While he rejoiced the defeat of Hitler and Nazism, Einstein continued to oppose the idea of a Jewish state. In January 1946, testifying before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry on Palestine (AACIP), Einstein argued against the idea of Israel. He wrote to Rabbi Wise, “I’m firmly convinced that a rigid demand for a ‘Jewish State’ will have only undesirable results for us.” American radical journalist I. F. Stone, himself a fellow ‘cultural Zionist’ declared his support for Einstein saying that “to have the greatest Jewish figure of the period oppose a Jewish state as unfair to the Arabs is a very noble thing.”
So you still haven’t found anything better than Zionism.
BTW, ethnic cleansing & open air prisons are not part of Zionism.
Israel is a democracy – democracy is the opposite of fascism.
Dear Mona:
It’s impossible to ignore the fact that Ellison comes from Minnesota, one of the states where both zionists and Jewish gangsters allied themselves in the 1930’s using people like Sam Kahn ( I think that’s the right name- the father/grandfather of Phyllis Kahn?) and others to buy off and or blackmail politicians.
The first brewery to get a license after prohibition was “Gluecks” which had a six point star logo.
When you realize the power these people wield over the non-jewish sheeple there, it is truly amazing, and one must ask “How do they do it?! ”
The answer is twofold:
1) the very powerful, calculated and manipulative, outright dishonest use of the term ‘anti-semitism’ injected into every dialogue, forcing people to take a side or shut up, and
2) the very real fact that the ADL, JDL, and many other Meir Kahane spawn employs “organized stalking’ in hidden personalized terror campaigns against individuals.
In Minnesota, a Democratic Farmer Labor party owns the teachers and te cops and te unions that represent them, and the school curriculum is overseen by the ADL!
So, Ellison likely has experienced these forms of coercion and blackmail too. After all, he went to the University of Minnesota, which likely rivals USC and other colleges that are top down Zioversities.
The head counsel of that university was affiliated with these zionist terror groups, and his wife a notorious AIPAC troll who harassed senators and common folk alike. The Zionist smear campaigns still take place all across that state, using whisper campaigns and carefully placed “crisis PR” professionals to wage them in the press, and online blogs.
The main junior college there- Minneapolis Community and Technical College, is a virtual “Somali terrorist” recruitment center for the FBI and local law enforcement, courtesy of that universities president, who is an avid zionist, and character assasin ‘sayanim’ as well.
The link below tis post is some background on this hidden form of domestic terror- and the DHS, FBI, et alphabet ass look the other way when it is Zionist terrorism, because it is so profitable to the police state, as endless war= endless $$$. And these hidden terror campaigns against the ‘amalek’ are very real, and very terrifying, and blossomed like flowers under both Bush and Bama.
So, Mona, when you hear about organized stalking and so on, temper it with this information. It is indeed very real.
Piotr Bien has a few times posted these links, and they check out as fact. But it’s all about those unfortunates, ay? Yup, unfortunate indeed when the ADL and it’s kvetching leaders burn the village to save one fingernail clipping.
https://exposeintelligence.blogspot.com/2015/08/homeland-security-organized-stalking.html
You are unhinged. Bye.
Hasabra troll, Jack Green, persists in lying, and in relying upon another Zionist liar — Alan Dershowitz. (Lying is not unusual for hardcore Zionists.) Quotes the troll:
Jack Green has posted that before. And all that follows he’s been told. By me. The first time could have been an error, but that he’s posted it again makes it a lie.
———————–
Dershowitz lifted that claim wholesale from another author. And therefore made the precise same error she did.
Young never wrote those words. Norman Finkelstein demonstrated Dershowitz was not only lying, but plagiarizing that passage when he wrote it (and he failed to check the primary source for himself):
———————-
Hardcore Zionists lie and/or distort and/or mislead as a matter of routine.
Are you saying that the one who said that the Jews of Jerusalem were living in fear for their lives & attributed the plight of the Jews to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace…” was actually A. Benisch?
I clearly stated what “I am saying.” About both the lying Alan Dershowitz and you.
I would not have asked if it were clear to me.
What is his first name?
link?
Can a country really call itself “sovereign” if it has to have a big brother it can call into the schoolyard if trouble starts ?
Without the big brother guarantee the right wing shlubs there might have to learn a new word, compromise.
Israel “foreign aid” comes back to the U.S. Corporations a lot of the time. Witness Caterpillar tractor and their armored bulldozers used to destroy olive gardens and homes.
Every member of NATO has a a big brother it can call into the schoolyard if trouble starts.
Whatever the virtues (or lack therof) of NATO, those member nations are not getting nearly $4 billion in annual U.S. military aid to help them continue to immiserate the population they ethnically cleansed.
Our bases in Germany alone cost us $10,320,000,000 a year.
Choosing Ellison as chair of the DNC would likely lead to many more votes for Democrats. Please please please choose Ellison. He’s what the country is looking for.
the sad thing is that this disinformation is probably coming from the Obama/Clinton wings of the party who do not want a Bernie Sanders supporter leading the DNC..shame on them….their combined leadership of the party apparatus has led to historic losses in state legislatures and state governorships….and they still want control???
The racism and treasonous foreign entanglements with enemy nations that we see from Ellison is pretty standard for democrats.
I really don’t see what makes him any worse than the average democrat
Ellison’s a sell-out pussy who threw the Reverend overboard the moment he tasted a little power courtesy of the Zionists. Now he’s bowing and scrapping and sobbing apologies for the likes Chaim Powerranger.
The real story is the willingness of the Ellisons to empower the pigs.
Can you imagine the depthless degree of defamation if Ellison was someone AIPAC and ilk truly needed to worry about?
Donald Trump will tell you all about it,and he won,despite their poison pen.
If a token, good Muslim R2P fanatic is the best the DNC has to offer I doubt Trump or the RNC have much opposition to worry about for the next eight years or ever. It’s quite satisfying to watch the Clintonites fold up into a little identity box where they will pursue their dead end liberalism with no real effect on anyone else.
Somewhat topical article Glenn linked to in his Twitter feed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/magazine/we-are-orphans-here.html
While the article was interesting, and heartbreaking, I think the “reader’s picks” comments are just as interesting. The majority appear to be from pseudonyms purporting to be from the US, and obviously under an NYT article many from NYC.
Is illuminating if anyone wonders why the I/P situation is largely “intractable” so long as there is overwhelming de facto support (among US House, Senate and Executive right on down to what could be fairly said is a bare majority of US members of the Jewish diaspora) for everything the government of the state of Israel does in the name of “fighting terrorism” (or failure to be “recognized”), then there will never be a lasting peace.
Each side blaming the other. Irresolvable chicken and egg arguments. Enough inhumanity and victimization to go around and around for centuries.
Truly a tragic situation for far too many human beings whether Israelis or Palestinians. Not that there’s any shortage of those sorts of tragedies all over the globe. Just seems to me its one we Americans all pay for, abet, and perpetuate in one way or another.
Okay I’m going to revise the following assertion, slightly:
http://www.prri.org/research/jewish-values-in-2012/
Again, there was some lack of clarity. My point is that there is not “overwhelming support” among the Jewish diaspora in America for a Palestinian state, as evidence above by the “generally speaking” caveat and 53% support. And I’d bet that 53% is pretty shaky depending on how questions or framed and/or whether or not framed with some reference or in the context of ongoing even if isolated violence or terrorism aimed at Israeli citizens (which I think is a chicken/egg problem i.e. I don’t think there will ever be a complete cessation of all violence until Palestinians have a state of their own, a future, and a majority buys into that future as an alternative to resistance or violence).
The attack on Mr. Ellison is about tribal power and influence. The rest are tactics – means to achieve an end.
To fall into the trap of distraction is human – to varying degrees, all of us use our internal model of the world to evaluate and frame events. And, people who would like to distract us know this very well. Avoid the distraction!
FFS when did the Democratic party become republican lite? If Ellison isn’t elected to head the DNC I’m done w/ (D) party. The Democratic party has lost their way & I hope Bernie & Warren & others can steer them away from 3rd party democrats.
July 4, 1776
Though I respect Glenn, I’m sorry that as a Muslim I have about zero respect for Ellison. Here’s a pretty good article on how much of a “Muslim” Ellison is:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11/17/the-skeletons-in-keith-ellisons-display-case/
Your position has nothing to do with him being a Muslim. You simply disagree on policy. There is no need to preface your comment with “as a Muslim,” as if there is some objective standard of how a Muslim is supposed to think or behave.
Yes, there we have it, religion and race are the only real reasons that anyone could possibly oppose the naked ambitions of an African-American Muslim politician; and, by extension, the only way that we can prove that Islamophobia is not the defining characteristic of America’s opposition to Ellison is to support his candidacy for DNC Chair. It is ironic that, in attempting to reject the culturally centrist bias of Ellison’s opposition (i.e. the Jews), Glenn Greenwald is himself advancing his alleged perceived negatives as bona fides. If Ellison is truly nothing more than “a mainstream liberal Democrat” then why all the fuss?
naked ambitions
Karl is a wingnut fool. Thinking people all get that Ellison’s “problem” is that he’s ever uttered a word in support of Palestinians. His being well within the establishment Dem fold cannot make up for that sin.
And yet here you are back responding to my opinions rather then hanging out with those who only reflect your views (aka Glenn’s views)… how did that work out for you all by the way?
p.s. Again, someone feels compelled to respond to my opinions with personal insults, that is taken as a form of capitulation.
In capitulation, Karl, I’d like to just say fuck you, you 3rd-rate William F. Buckley imitation.
Ka-ching! Another victory!!
low standards are good for you!
Seeking this manner of reflexive capitulation from you and Mona is indeed setting the bar very low; it is like shooting fish in a barrel as insult is your strongest suit.
Passive aggression is sophisticated. Karl learned this from the National Review some decades ago.
That’s really all Mona does he/she agitates and throws firebomb insults at those he/she disagrees with. Mona parrots tired rhetoric already on display and shares know original ideas except ones cut and pasted from hard left outlets. Mona also cries for a safe space and begs others to follow him/her to another board or thread when she feels intimidated. What a dullard Mona is…..
I’d like to no what ‘original id`ers’ you’ve contributed to these threads here, Flapjack?!
d’nger
Karl says: “If Ellison is truly nothing more than “a mainstream liberal Democrat” then why all the fuss?”
Seems like “all the fuss” is coming from you and your colleagues – so, please tell us, “… why all the fuss?”
Why is Faux News and BreitTard so scared of Ellison?
I’ll be shocked if Ellison is chosen. The Democrats simply aren’t going to risk their relationship with what is by far and away their most important donor block. It’s not just Saban, the majority of the Democrats mega-donors are Jewish and most of them are very supportive of Israel. Consider famous liberals like Steven “I would die for Israel” Spielberg or that other Ellison, Larry who donated 10 million to the IDF. This stuff is rarely ever covered in the American press (Gee I wonder why?) but the Israeli press is fairly straight forward about it.
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/1.658520
An anti-semite used to be someone who hates Jews.
These days, an anti-semite is someone that the Jews hate.
If you don’t want to be an asshole, substitute “some” or “certain” for “the” in your second sentence.
Dreary Nitpicker Alert
This is why I am a cautious optimist even if a cynical one.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/5/1607591/-Veterans-at-Standing-Rock-shock-tribe-members-beg-forgiveness-for-war-crimes-against-tribal-nations
Why is this so hard for Americans to do? Why is it so hard to look ourselves in the face and recognize some of the horrific legacies of this nation? Why is it so hard to at least rhetorically apologize and try and make amends?
It seems to me it is the mark of a strong nation and strong people and culture to be able to look at its past and state plainly:
“Our nation’s leaders and some of our citizens did horrific things to each other, and to many citizens of other nations. Most of us alive today aren’t directly responsible, but we are all genuinely sorry those things and that our nation caused them out of misguided beliefs or priorities. More importantly, we are all responsible for caring for one another, and to see that the issues the descendants and objects of those horrific acts face, are cared for and that the resources allocated to address the issues that are clearly residuals of those horrific acts and policies, however imperfectly.
That does not mean that those of us alive today who had no direct hand in those acts are to be blamed, but we are all as Americans responsible to help make amends because we indirectly enjoyed some of the benefits of those horrible acts, laws and cultural preferences, policies, practices and laws that resulted.”
And then start going down the list from the indigenous people of North America to the descendants of slaves brought to this nation and to the nations we made war on in the name of “manifest destiny” or “anti-communism”.
And even if Eisenhower (evoking William Jennings Bryan) wasn’t the perfect messenger, the message was spot on:
America’s economy is gigantic. It steals from its people, and sows chaos and destruction all over the globe because its people and government think and believe it should be the hegemon of the globe, rather than an imperfect and interdependent citizen of it.
The inability to apologize and ask for forgiveness is a cultural/tribal problem of humans. I remember reading as a teenager about the Katyn massacre, where the Soviets killed 22,000 Polish in 1940, and that Gorbachev acknowledged that it even happened, in 1990. It took the Soviets 50 years to even acknowledge it happened. And I couldn’t understand what the big deal was. Why couldn’t they just say, “Hey guys, we’re really sorry, but it was 1939, 1940 and the whole world was a mess, but let’s be friends.” And then I found out that the Japanese don’t even teach their schoolchildren what they did to the Chinese and the Koreans,… like nothing ever happened. Like the Chinese don’t know.
It’s all about theater; the theater, drama and the game of “moral standing.” You can kill people all you want, and everybody can know about it, but if you admit to it, you lose the game, and your moral standing.
Americans have been continuously evolving as a result of taking to heart the lessons of the past. There is far more social injustice associated with class differences at this point within American culture then those arising from differences in race. Even within the myopically constructed framework of race relations in America, one can plainly see that an anachronistic rendering of the past is being cynically exploited by those who have no actual interest in seeing America reach its fullest potential. Rather, they choose to advance their own fringe causes at the expense of individual and societal equanimity. They define the common good as that which serves their interests exclusively; and, to that end, they consciously discard truth, logic, and proportion.
Question about native American reparations. There were between 150 million and 180 million inhabitance of North and South America at the time of the Columbus landing. Over the next 130 or so year between 95% and 98% of those people died due to sickness brought over by the Europeans. Most of these people never heard of a European let alone met one.
Is something owed to the descendants of these people? If so, then what, by who and how?
Source? I believe that roughly twenty million native Americans occupied what is now the land that comprises the United States at the time of Columbus.
The problem is white man’s history.
Source 1: http://www.npr.org/2012/07/27/157421918/in-1493-uncovering-the-world-columbus-discovered
The book not the article.
Source 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New_Revelations_of_the_Americas_Before_Columbus
The consensus in archeology is changing as the evidence keeps mounting. In habitants of North and South America were decades or more ahead of the European in food production. This lead to a large, strong and well fed population as is documented in the earliest European visitors’ journals.
Both books are fantastic reads and changed the way I think about Earth, our society and history.
First, your numbers are likely off:
In what is now Mexico, Central and South America:
Anywhere from 10 million to 55 million–opinions vary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
First of all I never directly indicated I believed “reparations” as that term is understood were appropriate. Second, we’d have to define and delimit what you mean by “reparations” before I weigh in on what I think about that idea.
As far as whether the indigenous people of North America were killed by some of our ancestor’s diseases (whether accidentally and purposely–and it was both), or with swords and bullets, I could care less.
By definition those killed with diseases aren’t going to have a whole lot of descendants, but those that remain regardless should have their longstanding “issues” addressed as best we can. And at the very least not neglected and/or have their treaty rights abused for profit.
The land we all currently occupy was “colonized” immorally in my opinion. It was done by Europeans without any legitimate right to do so except in their own heads, laws, sense of “cultural superiority” and/or by “divine right”. I don’t find any of those excuses/justifications as legitimate or precluding the idea of recognizing the “wrongness” of those acts and the harms that resulted.
Third, what I did say, is what I said:
I believe all Americans, regardless of the (in)directness of their complicity or derived benefit from that colonization, “benefit” at the very least “indirectly” from what happened in the past. And if there was to be any exclusion from that “responsibility” (moral, rhetorical, financial or whatever) it would be the descendants of the human beings who were brought to America as other human being’s property (i.e. slaves). They didn’t have a choice, morally or otherwise in the choices of colonizers (nor as a group the ultimate benefits derived given this nation’s history with regard to those descendants) so they have the most attenuated “moral culpability” in my mind and the least responsibility.
Now maybe you’re just playing devil’s advocate in fleshing out my thoughts. Or maybe you’re one of those people that find the idea of taking greater and more affirmative steps to address the historic wrongs committed against both the ancestors of indigenous people or those brought to North America as slaves, and the descendants of both, as preposterous because you weren’t directly responsible for their harms. I’d even concede if that’s the case you are presently in the majority as far as American opinion goes on the topic generally.
But from my perspective it isn’t about “collective guilt or shame” (because obviously most of us had no “direct” hand in those atrocities, but “collective responsibility” for the harms perpetrated against (by this nation’s founders and their descendants) including but not limited to and primarily–indigenous people and those objects of the slave trade and their descendants because in some “marginal” ways a majority of us benefit, and continue to do so. And thus we are “marginally” responsible.
And after that the people of the nations we made war against as a function of “anti-communism” should be recognized, not as our “enemies” but as objects of horrifically misguided priorities, policies and acts. And maybe through preferential trade agreements and other policies (like funding the cleanup of munitions and the environmental destruction we caused in their lands), together with at a minimum some rhetorical recognition of those harms.
It is a good start is to at least rhetorically address those atrocities as a nation, and as a function of our culture we make it important for people to remember whether through national days of observance and cultural awareness (whether that be in school curriculum, or holidays, or “service” days, or required as part required general coursework for all college degrees or whatever).
As far as any particular paradigm of “reparations” goes, that’s a very difficult but not insurmountable ‘”problem” assuming a significant majority could come to understand and want to provide some measure of collective responsibility for our history to those who have been harmed by it in a truly egregious ways.
There’s plenty of “wealth” flowing around America to do some of that, it is a question of priorities and becoming something more than a “culture of Me” but a “culture of We”.
Just my $0.02 and I’m well aware that I’m in the minority of opinions in that regard. But until we do some of that, I’m always going to believe we are a diminished culture and nation with some giant “sins” on our “collective soul”. Does every other nation in human history have them on their soul too, of course.
But that’s for them to grapple with. I used to think America was in part about actually aspiring to something greater as an example for the rest of world (not that we haven’t fallen incredibly short of that ideal in far too many ways for far too long, if not always).
Guess I’ll never understand our failures in that regard, except to the extent that in our elite’s minds, and far too many in the general population, to do so would cause the American people to truly think and attempt to understand what this nation has really been all about (“capitalism”/”property”) for most or all its history–and it isn’t altogether pretty or moral.
And I guess we can’t really have the plebes thinking too long or hard about their role in perpetuating very problematic systems of human organization and all the externalities caused by those organizational models.
“Now maybe you’re just playing devil’s advocate in fleshing out my thoughts.”
Bingo.
I use reparations very broadly to mean any form of compensation.
I agree with you on pretty much all of what you wrote. I will say when trying to figure out what to do about past atrocities I am at a loss.
Diversionary nonsense.Yes,SA and CA had many natives at the time of Colombus,but NA above Mexico had very few,as there is no evidence of there being more than a few million,and since Spain and Portugal were the principal murderers,ask them for reparations.
Well I can see you are still reading your 5th grade history book.
My history books were not written by divide and conquer zionists,thank you very much,they are prezionist,like the fifth grade(’61)I was schooled in.
Everything written about history post 80? is zionist BS.
@thomas paine
Oh please. The West, especially the United States, is complicit in the enormous crimes Zionist Israel has committed, and still commits, against Palestinians. By contrast, there is no “Swiss Lobby” that virtually owns our elected officials (and grossly distorts our politics) and makes sure we give Switzerland almost $4 billion a year in taxpayer funded military aid, much of which goes to terrorize and oppress the indigenous Arabs.
I’ll stop “singling out Israel” just as soon as my government does, and as soon as we have made amends to the Palestinians for our pernicious complicity.
From whence do you get this purported right of a nation-state to exist? Do you foresee the former Soviet Union showing up at the Hague to press for its return on the basis that it’s “rights” have been violated?
omg. You could find a lot to pin on Switzerland, if you did as much hate-mongering towards them. Really dont want to get into it, but Israel does have the right to exist and defend. I don’t defend inhumane activities or the right wing government, but they live under daily terror. Would love to see you endure the same and not think it appropriate to defend. Just simply apply the golden rule. That is all it would take. The crimes of the US, not in defense but in offensive operations, are much more extensive and staggeringly so, as are those of Saudi Arabia, yadda, yadda, but “haters gotta hate…” so clip that quote and enjoying responding… gosh, i better shut this off, or will join you in irrational ranting and cursing… good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow…
And yet, you cite nothing.
A bare assertion that a claimed “right” is cognizable doesn’t get you anywhere here, or anywhere else where intelligent people participate.
Israel is an ethno-religious supremacist state founded, literally, by Zionist terrorists adhering to what Albert Einstein denounced as a fascist political ideology. Zionists ethnically cleansed hundreds of Palestinian-Arab villages and cites, and locked up many of the hundreds of thousands of the refugees it created in the open air prison that is Gaza.
And as a U.S. taxpayer I’ve helped pay for the oppression ever since.
Switzerland? pffft
With that I agree.
Jews had lived in Hebron & Gaza for centuries until they were ethnically cleansed by Palestinians in 1929.
In 1947, racist xenophobic Palestinians started a war against the Jews. Wars create refugees.
That’s all false, as has been explained to you dozens of times with copious documentation. But because you are a particularly prolific hasbara troll, as I describe here, you will continue to spew the same debunked talking points, over and over.
“…The riots took the form, in the most part, of attacks by Arabs on Jews…”
“…110 Arabs were killed and 232 were injured, the vast majority by the British police while trying to suppress the riots…”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
And those riots, as YOU HAVE SEEN DOCUMENTED MANY TIMES were due to Zionists’ public plans to steal their land. And the employment and housing discrimination the Zionists were already forcing on the indigenous Arabs.
If Jews had actually been committing any crimes they would have been arrested.
Why were indigenous, anti-Zionist Jews attacked?
Why were Palestinians shouting “The Jews are our dogs! Islam was spread by the sword!?”
It was a race riot! There’s no justification for a race riot!
Indeed, this commenter has also explained all this during one of the gazillion times you’ve spewed this talking point. You are an insufferable hasbara troll.
By proclaiming that you find some of the activities of the “right wing” Israeli government inhumane, you participate in self delusion. There is no Israeli Left wing. According to a Max Blumenthal joke, it’s comprised of about 600 people. Why don’t you google me the position of the “left wing” Israeli opposition party. Netanyahu is about as left wing as you’re going to get in Israel. The opposition is worse.
And if the Israelis live under daily terror, where are the news reels of this terror? Where are the youtube videos of this devastating terror, for which they have to retaliate with inhuman, barbaric, 3rd century battle tactics. Why is AIPAC talking about Keith Ellison and not about the daily reign of terror under which Israelis live. The whole thing is a lie. And allowing yourself to believe it, and not doing your research, is the only way you can support the behavior of Israel.
That claim is preposterous and actually rather obscene. During the summer of 2014, when Israel was pummeling Gaz — raining down death and destruction on children and adult civilians — this is how terrified they were in Tel Aviv as reported in The Times of Israel: In Tel Aviv, keep calm and tip the sushi guy
Look at some of the horrifying pictures of dead and maimed children in Gaza, and then read all about the Israelis carrying on with luncheon dates, tipping the help, and having just a fucking grand old time. It’s disgusting. Depraved, actually, to prattle about the so-scary conditions Israelis live under at the hands of Palestinians.
“…At least 75 percent of children aged 4–18 in Sderot suffer from post-traumatic stress, including sleeping disorders and severe anxiety.[5] From mid-June 2007 to mid-February 2008, 771 rockets and 857 mortar bombs were fired at Sderot and the western Negev, an average of three or four each a day.[6] …”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sderot
Funny that Blumenthal is allowed his moment of truth(600),when goyim say it,they are using hate speech,right Mona?
The truth shall set US free.
They live under the daily terror that Sara Netanyahoo may steal their empty pop bottles.
Yawn.
For centuries, Palestinians oppressed Jews
The British consul, William Young, writing in the 1840’s (before Zionism) said that the Jews of Jerusalem were living in fear for their lives. He attributed the plight of the Jews to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace…”
JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.
Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived. Notice the word “bigotry.”
& now Palestinians oppress Israelis.
Stabbing Israelis is oppression. Running over Israelis is oppression. Blowing up Israelis in buses is oppression. Launching rockets & mortars at Israelis is oppression. Blowing up pizza restaurants & night clubs & hotels is oppression.
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize that your military kills Palestinian children because of the pain and anguish they put you through with their bigotry in 18fucking78. I bet the Russians were really nice to you back then and that is why you don’t kill Russian children, or is it because they have bigger, fatter guns?
When your justification for killing children and uprooting families are such ordinary lies, everyone can see that the reason you kill Palestinians has nothing to do with your fucking pain and suffering of the past, and everything to do with the apartment you live in now, built on the land of an uprooted Palestinian family.
And don’t give me your shit about your pain and suffering from bigotry. When were you born? What Palestinian has ever looked you in the eye? You’re filthy, racist, scum, and not much more.
I guess you are unaware of 15,000 rockets fired from Gaza which killed or wounded 2,000 Israelis. Israelis have the right of self-defense.
I am unaware, as I never read about it anywhere.
“Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands[1][2][3][4] of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip ”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
This is now at least the third time you’ve posted that utterly wrong and false bullshit supposedly from the NYT — it is NOT from the Times, as you’ve been told twice now. And it’s grossly misleading. I debunked it more than 4 months ago. Yet twice now you’ve spewed it twice since then.
You will never care that you are spouting lies. Becasue you are a hasbara troll.
Go to the NYT Archives. Select: Search the Article Archive: 1851-1980 »
Go to: Specific Date. Put in December 29,1878. Hit: Refine Search.
In the box by Your Search type Jerusalem.
Voila!
That was not reported in the New York Times. A quote was included in a round-up of stuff from around the world. The original is published in something called The Saturday Review of Politics, Literature, Science and Art, Volume 46.”
You’ve been told this before.
More importantly, and as the link to my comment debunking you shows, you left out some very salient information that undermines your claim.
here is the link to the article in the NY Times
http://nyti.ms/2heHi4K
happy to help.
William Young belonged to a group of evangelical Christians who shared the views of Anthony Ashley Cooper (aka the Great Reformer). Cooper was responsible for nurturing the biblical belief that the return of the Jews to Palestine was an essential precursor to Christ’s second coming. Cooper himself openly referred to the Jews as a “stiff-necked, dark hearted people” who were sunk in “moral degeneration.” The ostensible goal of opening up a consulate in Jerusalem was for the “protection of its Jewish inhabitants.” Concurrently, a Jewish presence in Palestine was seen as the key to gaining a foothold in the region by the British Crown; it was understood that the Ottoman Empire was crumbling and that Palestine’s geographical access to the Mediterranean sea made it an ideal candidate for British hegemonic ambition. The plight of Jewish immigrants from that point forward was largely the responsibility of the Ottomans. Thus, when you cite a 1878 NY Times article that speaks to Jewish squalor in Palestine, you are actually speaking about the predictable consequences of British sponsored proto-Zionism.
Are you saying that Jews were treated badly because Britain opened a consulate in Jerusalem? That Young was lying when he attributed the plight of the Jews to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace…?”
Have a nice life Jack.
Your “JEWS IN JERUSALEM” excerpt from the NYT is preceded by the following omission:
“They [Sephardic Jews] receive, however, from collections regularly levied by their messengers among the Jews all over the world, a considerable revenue to support their own synagogues and to relieve any cases of poverty. It seems that the Ashkenaz Jews, about half as numerous as the Sephardim, did not share in these benefits; and many of them, having come to the Holy Cit as pilgrims, were forbidden by Rabbinical pedantry to work at common trades for their living. The consquence was that they fell into such abject wretchedness as it is painful to read of.”
As such, it was their very own brothers-in-faith who caused their condition.
Looks like we do know Jack after all.
I’m from Minnesota and Keith is an outstanding politician. Why is it when you criticize Israel you’re automatically an anti-semite? A good friend called me that when I was appalled how the Palestinians were being treated. It changed our freindship; sad.
Excellent article. Totally agree. Very sad to see the ADL over react and mischaracterize Ellison. That said, I support Israel strongly, and it’s right to exist, especially when threatened. But, an Israeli right wing government , not so much. And the Jewish community and Israeli supporters can certainly express concern with these past statements, but there is nothing to establish Ellison as anti-semitic, or disqualify him from serving as DNC Chair. His progressive views will be greatly needed in the years to come. Honestly, his chairmenship is about the LAST STRAW for me and the Democratic party… if he does not get this… exit stage LEFT…
Ellison voted against the Iron Dome. The Iron Dome saves lives.
The DNC Chair should be in favor of saving lives.
He would have voted for the Chrome Dome.
Isn’t it pathetic a tiny country the size of Bakersfield Cal that’s 6,000 miles away controls the foreign policy of most powerful nation in the world? Shameful.
Oh my, ADL, AIPAC , Israel all in a tizzy about someone who might shed some light on how they buy and pay for our Congress. Right on Mr. Ellison.
If he was Jewish we would hear nary a word or maybe how good of a ‘friend’ to Israel he is and expounding on the ‘special relationship’ dysfunctional and screwed up as it is.
In a hundred years no other lobby group other than AIPAC has gotten their hands as deep into the American pocket and government as Israelis have been for the past 60 years.
Between 2009 and 2015, Israeli lobbies contributed nearly $17 million dollars to the campaigns of 349 U.S. government officials. And Congress members are not apt to bite the hands that so generously feed them; ethics, morals and justice be damned.
The solution is simple – when an AIPAC endorsed Congress person rails against Ellison just spell it out for them, wherever that congressional idiot appears/speaks ask them about all the money we give to Israel that could be spend here at home. People understand dollars and cents. Make AIPAC and the people who receive money from AIPAC and are blindingly, unquestioning of apartheid Israel defend giving 10 millions dollars a day to a ‘vibrant democracy’ when our own are going without.
Spell it out for them and shame these Israel firsters/AIPACers. It’s long overdue.
If Israel controls the USA, why did the USA attack Iraq in 2003 when Israel advised against?
Not only was Israel against the Iran nuke deal, but it was vehemently against.
The US signed anyway.
“If Israel controls the USA, why did the USA attack Iraq in 2003 when Israel advised against?”
Because Israel has a public face and a private face.
Israel tells lies openly. Look at the slaughter in Gaza; self defense my ass.
I guess you didn’t know that Palestinians launched thousands of rockets & mortar from Gaza killing or injuring 2,000 Israelis?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
” killing or injuring 2,000 Israelis?”
That would be
Israel slaughtered more than 2000 civilians just in 2014. Israelis are butchers.
Even one fatality is unacceptable.
Self-defense is not slaughter!
Defending yourself doesn’t mean that you are a butcher.
If Palestinians had not been attacking innocent Israelis, no Palestinians would have been killed.
Can’t be truthful anymore, basically. The PC Police are hyperventilating – or since Dean pulled out, they have another Corporatist in mind.
On that note -Kellyanne Conway was more truthful than Robby Mook at Harvard and Megan Kelly at Fox was more truthful than Rachel Maddow at MSNBC.
I realize that the world is upside down.
Listening to former amb Marc Ginsberg on C SPAN this morning – almost a buffoon, he’s trying to convince Congress and the SV tech companies to decrease online Islamic radicalism by curbing (detecting) words like Kill Americans. Has a software company or is affiliated with one.
How many US deaths by lone wolf Islamic terrorists?
Why is he promulgating fear, still?
Some listener called up to ask what would happen to him if he chose to posit his thought(s) on Facebook. Great point.
I tried to ask him what would be more effective – stopping our ineffective drone program and our imperial wars in/on the ME or promoting a weakening of the First Amendment? (Couldn’t get through.)
Just tweeted Rep Ellison my support.
Thank you for the story.
1. have to wonder if saban’s comments are grounds for a libel/slander case. since these types hate freedom of speech so much, let’s drag their biased and bigoted opinions into court and put the burden of proof on them. it’s fun to dream.
2. as i’ve said elsewhere many times, pro-israel types have no gradation in their views. you’re either 100% slavishly zionist or you’re the enemy. all the attempts at balance by ellison and others are pointless exercises because they’re dealing with the severe mental illness known as zionism (or israeli chauvinism if you prefer). if bland, safe politicians want to stand in the middle of the road and thus be run down then fine. the better alternative is a complete and total rejection of the ethnic colonial project including sanctions and a complete cut off of all aid. if nothing one does prevents one being labeled as an “anti-semite” then let’s at least see what happens when the ingrates have to fend for themselves and quit sucking US teat. should be fun.
3. i’m glad we have more examples of how pro-israel jews are powerless victims caught up in the wind gusts of history. after all, it’s “anti-semitic” to say they have an inordinate amount of influence over the government. or that they’re basically white racists no different than your average david duke. (in all fairness, duke probably has his foreskin. so not 100% similar.) or that they have the ability to flood the media with their toxic and bigoted views without question. and none of us would want to be called “anti-semite” would we? otherwise we might find out how “ni__er-lovers” in the south used to feel. we should just continue to let these powerless, victimized, uninfluential people who JUST HAPPEN to be jewish continue their brave struggle against the EQUALLY POWERFUL ni__er palestinians. otherwise we might face the full brunt of their non-power, non-wealth and their non-influence of the media.
history will look back on this and laugh. at us, not with us.
The corporate neoliberal Democrats who are financed by Wall Street and unreservedly support the states of Israel and Saudi Arabia (the Pelosi gang) need to be removed from power in the Democratic party if they even want to win general elections again.
But these people don’t really care about that; they’re happy to be the minority, colluding with Republicans, because it means they get nice payoffs – their families get Wall Street jobs, and they have lucrative board positions waiting for them if they ever do leave office. They’re just corrupt politicians, in it for themselves, trying to leverage their political positions into personal wealth – i.e. the Clinton model.
You’re aware, of course, of the Republican’s invitation to the Prime Minister of Israel to address the US Congress?
No?
Le’t me refresh your memory.
You also realize the Republicans unanimously support not only Saudi Arabia but all the other dictatorships in the Arab world.
No?
Let me help.
Jacking FOXNews into your brain isn’t healthy for yourself … or for the country.
dear milton marshmallow: sucking up to Israel is
totally bipartisan gospel
anybody who tries to score a partisan point in this regard
such as you
is a
fucking
liar.
Fox News? Try all the fucking big news, asshole, from NPR to New York Times to CNN
You really picked the wrong place to try to spread your lies. Nobody here
thinks the Democrats are less likely to do whatever Israel wants, nobody.
There’s a handful of Democrats bucking this — a handful. The party does whatever they can to screw them too.
Let me see if I understand you correctly.
In response to a bitter and unsourced partisan attack on Democrats (which I cited):
You react like a partisan culture warrior ready for battle.
I make the point that Republicans are also at the trough.
I provide evidence for my assertion.
If you don’t like it, dispute the evidence.
Further, my tone was calm if not entirely detached.
In response your tone is unpleasant and crude.
Since I’ve found this sort of belligerence common among the emerging fascists and the very ignorant to whom they appeal, particularly as led by Der Trumpenmeister himself, I will refrain from replying in kind.
People who want to improve things strive to do so; people who want and need enemies don’t need much provocation.
There’s little doubt as to which party caters to which sort of voter.
Good on you for staying calm, not being belligerant, not being unpleaasant or crude, all while spreading nonsense. Maybe NPR will send you a tote bag.
I didn’t learn my lesson. Apparently my choice of vulgarity worked. I notice you backed down quite a bit. Now you are claiming something mere:
“I make the point that Republians are also at the trough.”
ALSO? Your first post suggested that favoritism for Israel was entirely the fault of Republicans. And now you are reduced to “You’re Mean, and Republicans Do It Too, and They’re Mean Like You.”
Thanks, I’m quite pleased at this turn. Have a good night.
Of course you didn’t learn your lesson. That’s the point of your belligerence. You expect to shout/insult others into concessions. Having lived with this sort of moronic sophistry (and as you display yourself), almost anything counts as grounds for gloating and more narcissistic lip-flappery.
Silence is submission, compromise is weakness, lack of equal belligerence cowardice, and common ground your rightful pisspot.
Your psyche is so common among American men, so typical of the Republican party, so loud and so abrasive that people would rather ignore you — even cross to the other side of the street — than listen to you repeat yourself a thousand times over with the slogans so common in today’s culture.
I observe this because you make one clownish remark that should be addressed. Specifically:
I responded to the nitwit’s original post as I did because the writer displays a quite unhinged sort argument which I’ve seen repeatedly on this site — including, and especially, the “non-partisan” partisanship displayed by Mr. Greenwald since the election.
First, it is HRC’s fault that Trump won. Second, it is “McCarthyism” when a brand new website emerges that doesn’t immediately identify its writers which the Washington Post approvingly cites (thus proving WP utter lack of journalistic integrity no matter who, what, or when). Finally, this current piece in which a few injudicious shots taken at KE during the jockeying for head of DNC becomes a global conspiracy against Muslims.
(One might notice Trump and associate’s suggestions of a ban on Muslim entry, deportation of Muslims, and a fucking registry as more indicative of a conspiracy than a few aspersions cast at the only Muslim in Congress. Not Mr. Greenwald.)
But the strategy is exactly the same. Spit drool and tooth debris about Democrats and then mutter something about Republicans doing the same thing and pretend there’s been a balanced discussion.
1. Trump won because more people voted for him than Clinton. (Apparently.)
2. Whatever else it might be, not listing the names of contributors to a new website is NOT McCarthyism.
3. Mentioning KE’s religion is NOT a smear campaign compared with the rightwing charges of an impending caliphate, the infiltration of the Muslim Brotherhood, Clinton’s assistant as ISIS spy and many other conspiracy theories the right wing and Trumpeteers have conjured against Muslims. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. Yet again Mr. Greenwald takes an opportunity to attack Democrats and virtually ignore Republicans.
When I saw this poster doing the same thing, I thought it appropriate to point out that Republicans are far more corrupt than the Dems when it comes to this sort of Wall Street, Saudi, and Israeli cash-sucking.
A point which you concede by acknowledging “a handful of Democrats” oppose this sort of cash-sucking.
It’s more than “a handful”.
Indeed, I heard Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton call for a repeal Citizens United, the Republican initiative approved by the Republican members of SCOTUS. Whatever else you want to say about Democrats, MOST oppose this institutionalization of bribery. They even included a repeal of Citizen’s United in their platform this year. The Republicans took the opposite position: https://theintercept.com/2016/07/19/gop-platform-calls-for-elimination-of-almost-all-campaign-finance-laws/
Here is the pattern.
Find a Republican flaw. Downplay it. Accuse Democrats of having the same flaw. Exaggerate it. Use that similarity to slander all Democrats as just like Republicans except worse. Hop back and forth like Rush Limbaugh gloating with righteous self-acclaim.
Call anyone opposing this crafty sort of slander liar, asshole, or limousine liberal (“NPR totebag”) and simply perpetuate this dissembling pattern of political myth-making. It keeps working for your bunch of political thugs if by electing Trump, you think you’ve gained something.
Credibility matters to me. People who insist on biased non-partisanship lose their credibility for me.
As far as this conversation goes, you’ve already demonstrated what’s important to you.
I respond as I have because my own credibility is important to me.
“Whatever else you want to say about Democrats, MOST oppose this institutionalization of bribery.”
No. They actually don’t. They just like to convince people like you that they do.
Funny.
You make an accusation without foundation, despite evidence (including a 5-4 Citizens united decision) I list. Then, since it’s not enough to make a specious, unfounded claim, you try to tell me what “they” — whoever you mean by “they” — want me to think.
Here’s your problem.
Reality gives better evidence than ideological imaginings and specific examples are better than general rightwing nonsense.
“Your psyche is so common among American men, so typical of the Republican party, ….”
I support the dirtbag left. Learn who they are. You’ll love them, Milt. Just love them.
I don’t believe you.
When you repeat Republican talking points, when you promote Republican interests and when you accuse and condemn Democrats like you’re part of a Greek chorus, you may consider yourself something else, but as far as I’m concerned you’re simply another Republican engaged in another lie.
The entire Republican party, including Trump, have made themselves absolutely clear. There will be no compromise, no accommodation, no common ground, and no tolerance for any dissenting points of view.
If you don’t know this already, then you’re an idiot.
You would have to ignore the last forty years of history — from Iran Contra to Wikileaks smears of Clinton; from whitewatergate to Swiftboats for Truth; from the Koch brothers libertarian fronts to birtherism, from two separate invasions of Iraq to a stolen election from Clarence Thomas to Breitbart news (and these are a fraction of examples) … the Republicans have no agenda except absolute power for themselves and their patrons.
Now they have control of all three branches of government and the boneheaded Democrats point fingers at one another????
How can anyone ignore the rightwing perpetual slime machine designed solely to generate antipathy for government and to ridicule progressive policy while slandering and maligning their opponents?
It’s impossible to live in America and not see this day after day after year after decade.
You cannot stand by and watch Republicans attempt to destroy — say — Planned Parenthood and think to yourself, “they have a point …”
There is no point but the destruction of civil government. That’s it!
If you prefer Trump to Clinton, that’s your choice. But don’t pretend you aren’t a Republican when you fulminate, echo, vote, insult and accuse like a Republican.
This is why I don’t believe you.
And btw, I would never, ever refer to the left as “dirtbags.” Never!)
thanks for the laughs
“Jacking FOXNews into your brain isn’t healthy”
Pointing out the evils of HRC and the Democrats DOES NOT mean you are advocating for Republicans.
Faulty logic on your part to suggest Photo of doing that.
He’s not the only one I accuse.
Sure buddy, let’s have a long conversation about the Israeli nuclear weapons program.
Why does that always shut you guys up? Seriously, many people believe that if Iran and Saudi Arabia also got nuclear weapons and the Middle East turned into a giant radioactive smoking hole, well, that would be a good lesson for humanity on the nature of psychotic religious fanaticism. Something to remember. Because, I’ve talked to more than a few intelligent people from that region, and funny, it’s like a common theme.
J’accoff
Being Anti-American government dose not make you anti-Christian. Being anti-Saudi government does not make you anti-Islam.
Being Anti-Israel government DOES NOT make you anti-Semite!!
A briefer and more effective sentiment.
Especially in a country where opposing the governments of other countries (e.g. Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba) is exceedingly common place. There’s no rational excuse for putting any single country on a pedestal.
Suggesting Keith Ellison is anything because he didn’t grow up around Jewish neighborhoods is absurd. 1) It ignores ghettos and the intent to segregate America, 2) To suggest hive-mindedness (of Muslim people, even if itwas absolutely true) as something resulting in inherently “anti-semitic” habituations also has no base, is zionist, and religious in its argument. How many Muslim majority (by population not rule) empires/nations with religious tolerance must we point to?
Update re Greenwald’s story: Washington Post Disgracefully Promotes a McCarthyite Blacklist From a New, Hidden, and Very Shady Group
Yves Smith, her site Naked Capitalism and her experienced First Amendment and defamation attorney Jim Moody are calling on Washington Post to retract and apologize for their story on PropOrNot’s evidence-free accusations.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/we-demand-that-the-washington-post-retract-its-propaganda-story-defaming-naked-capitalism-and-other-sites-and-issue-an-apology.html
Thanks Pedinska. One hopes the first of many. A review of James Moodys track record may inform his handling the defamation case for Naked Capitalism going forward http://www.grossolaw.com/our-firm/james-moody/
“Israel, and no other nation on the globe, controls the entire world’s ‘foreign policy’.” –rrheard
I will preface my comment about this by emphasizing that I don’t think rrheard is anti-Semitic. In fact I’m sure he isn’t. But the quoted assertion interests me because it approaches the gray area where criticism of Israel starts to overlap with something darker. It vests a small nation of 7 million people (together with a few million co-religionist sympathizers in various other countries) with a degree of power that is, on its face, objectively outlandish. This tiny nation, together with its diaspora sympathizers (all of whom are part of a small minority in each of their respective countries), “controls” the foreign policy of the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD? How is that possible? What superhuman talents must these people possess in order to project such power across the globe, decade after decade?
@ Gator90
You are misreading the above. Although I can see how it happened.
My point was “not only does Israel not control the ‘world’s foreign policy’, no other singular nation on the planet does either.”
This should have been clear by reading it together in context with the statements that followed that my argument was that “while it cannot be said that the USA also does not control the ‘world’s foreign policy’, the USA is fairly, and uncontroversially accepted as “a big player in ‘influencing’ whatever one would call the ‘world’s foreign policy'”. Whether it be in matters of war or economics (although I’d argue the latter is a big driver of the former, although not exclusively as ‘war’ often has other causal factors) or any other that are fairly described as the “world’s foreign policy” although it would probably me more accurate to state their isn’t some “unified” “world’s foreign policy” and that I’m discussing the “world’s foreign policy” as it relates to the state of Israel in all its various facets.
And what is also true, vis a vis America and the I/P “problem” is that America’s government and individual legislators and executive branch officials, are ‘disproportionately’ influenced to take particular policy positions, and employ only a very cabined type of rhetoric in discussing those policies vis a vis Israel, by a very active subset of the global Jewish diaspora. I really believe that is well documented and an uncontroversial proposition by and large.
I do not believe “Jews” or the “Jewish diaspora” is “in control” of any thing on a global scale. But what I do believe, and again this is largely uncontroversial, is that a very small subset of the human population, has a very disproportionate influence on the policy universe that can be considered, by its relationship(s) of ‘influence’ to the US Senate, House and certain Executive branch officials–going on decades. And that’s a function of a whole host of “organizations” and hyper-rich individuals who fund those organizations and/or candidates to elected US office, in such a way as to ‘capture’ and ‘cabin’ the way Israel’s government’s actions can be analyzed and discussed and any particular policy paradigm (within the US) that can be discussed in terms of ‘potential’ or ‘viability’.
That’s my point.
Do I concede that in making that argument, which I think is uncontroversial, can be twisted and used to support assumptions or propositions which I do not–just as it appears Gator90 may have either accidentally or purposefully–yes.
More importantly, and to be more precise, I don’t believe it is “wrong” or “anti-democratic” for American citizens of the Jewish diaspora to organize legally toward whatever legislative ends they like (i.e. I would never suggest that I don’t believe that in a ‘democracy’ or representative form of government to the degree the USA is, that it is not permissible for members of the Jewish diaspora to organize freely to ‘influence’ the USA’s government to act consistent with their perception of what Israel’s ‘interests’ are or should be vis a vis the USA–of course it is appropriate just as it is for any other ‘identity’ group to do so whether they be LGBT, Muslim or Christian).
My problem is with US legislators and executive branch officials who allow or permit themselves (for whatever reason personal or political) to be ‘captured’ or be ‘disproportionately influenced’, to the exclusion of even discussing other ‘potential’ or ‘viable’ policy paradigms vis a vis the USA’s relationship with Israel, and/or by the perceived ‘interests” or needs of a very small subset of the human population and a tiny nation on the other side of the globe because of and in light of the very successful organizing efforts of a small subset of both the Jewish diaspora and the human population that happens to organize in America to achieve their preferred ends as a function of US policy vis a vis Israel.
That’s it.
And to be clear, again, I’m not anti-Semitic nor am I necessarily anti-the right of Israel to exist where it does. My personal opinion is that it was a catastrophic mistake (and wrong minded) for the USA to ever empower ethno-religious states or theocracies in any way whether that be Israel or Saudi Arabia or whichever state that might fit that bill.
And since I think the state of Israel is a fait accompli for the rest of time at least in a world that defines itself in terms of “nation-states” rather than citizens of the planet, then the question becomes, how does the world forge a workable solution to the I/P “problem” and create a dynamic where Israel continues to exist, and that doesn’t create this seemingly intractable global policy problem for so many?
My problem, and by analogy, is that a country with 8 million people–Israel–and is about the size of Papua New Guinea or Switzerland, appears to have a disproportionate influence on global politics and specifically the policy and politics of one of its biggest, the USA.
People would think (and I do) it is absurd if the USA’s foreign policy vis a vis most of the other nations of the world, is disproportionately influenced or its foreign policy is, with regard to the needs or interests of Switzerland or Papua New Guinea.
That’s my point. And if it was, I would refer to Switzerland and Papua New Guinea as “special snowflakes”. Then again, I have the same exact problem I have with Israel, with Saudi Arabia, that a nation of 28 million people, and more specifically its hereditary monarchs and their diaspora influence America’s policies to the degree they do.
It’s absurd, counterproductive, corrupt as hell, and needs to stop.
Again, sorry for lack of clarity.
My argument is: it would be absurd if America’s foreign policy was disproportionately a function of the perceived ‘interests’ or needs of Switzerland or Papau New Guinea as it seemingly or apparently is with regards to the state of Israel.
That’s my problem–disproportionalism in ‘influence’ to the size and importance of a small nation’s perceived ‘interests’ or needs vis a vis America and/or the rest of the world (“disproportionalism” being a word I just made up, but I think makes my point somewhat more clear).
Thanks for the clarification. Your suggestion that I “may” have “purposefully” twisted your words is not well taken. Although we have never met and are not friends, you damned well ought to “know” me well enough in the context of GG’s forum to know I wouldn’t do that. Just as I “know” you well enough to know you’re not an anti-Semite (which is why I made a point of saying you aren’t one) even though you sometimes say weird shit that requires extensive explanation.
And that’s why I said “accidentally” first, and purposefully second. Given we aren’t friends but have known each other a long time through these comments sections, you say some weird shit that makes no sense to me requiring explanation and my perception is that you have, at limited times, assumed or conflated criticism of Israel is somehow maligning the entirety of the Jewish diaspora.
And the only reason I said “may have purposefully” is because I think upon a closer reading of the entirety of my post, and you knowing me, should have recognized I wasn’t trying to suggest Jewish people control anything, much less the entire world.
I’m just chalking it all up to lack of clarity. Sorry about that.
@RR– “you knowing me, should have recognized I wasn’t trying to suggest Jewish people control anything, much less the entire world”
You’re right, I should have known that. Your apology is both accepted and reciprocated. (If you feel super-weird right now, it’s because a Jew in Florida is mentally giving you a hug…)
No worries. I apologize for the lack of clarity. I think most people of good will, given the most recent election results, are rightly unsettled and raw right now and we’re all having a difficult time communicating effectively at times. I am no exception to that general problem right now so I apologize.
And hugs back at you brother. We’re all going to have to find a way to reach out to those we don’t necessarily see eye to eye with on everything, and build a little more solidarity if we’re going to be up for pushing back on what’s likely coming down the legislative pike here in the next 4 years.
But I’m an optimist (cynical one to be sure) who thinks that the real “silent majority” in this country aren’t the 25% of the country that put Donald Trump into office. They are the 65% that are generally good and tolerant peaceful folks who are tired of war and violence, tired of hate and division, and tired of our own government not being very responsive to the economic needs of this nation and its people, and too busy going around the world like we have some right to rule or direct it, instead of focusing on the myriad issues that leave so many of our citizens behind with little opportunity and little future.
Guess we’ll see, but I think we’ll find enough common ground to stave off the really problematic crap that’s likely coming.
Thanks RR, and well said.
Cynical optimism is probably the healthiest available outlook at this (or really, almost any) time.
You are writing Trumps campaign speeches?
That’s what he said in Ohio yesterday.(2nd to last paragraph)It’s why we voted for him,as we are tired of the divide and conquer totally driven by zion on US,and the nonsense of war forever.
Good analogy with Switzerland if you want to totally undermine your own argument. Switzerland is almost never criticized, demeaned, demonized or accused of “controlling the world” by intolerant and misguided individuals as Israel is. Yes, about the same size but a “neutral” country of yodeling, chocolate, and fondue, no? Except… dah, dah, dah… what about … the money laundering banking systems, the headquarters for UN, WHO, Red Cross, International Olympics, and countless other NGO organizations? Low tax haven for countless shady international companies, hedge funds, and refuge for criminals on the run and their dirty money, as well as deposed dictators. Their banks have cost Americans Billions of dollars. They don’t “control” the world? Somehow they dont get as much shit as Israel. Coincidence? I think not. And if you disagree with me, you are an anti-semite (just kidding)… but seriously.,, Is it not possible to tone down the anti-Israel hate to a level congruent with well considered analysis? Or, if you really do not believe in the right to exist of Israel, say it straight forward, and that is a good starting/ending point of the conversation.
“Somehow they dont get as much shit as Israel. Coincidence? I think not.”
True. Switzerland didn’t slaughter a couple thousand civilians 2 years ago. The Swiss are not actively stealing land on a daily basis. The Swiss do not bribe all of America’s politicians with ASPAC.
So you are right, no coincidence.
Israel along with their Five Eyes partners upstream collection would by nowhere close without Narus Splitters. We share raw take with Israel from those splitters on request.
So on a purely intelligence collection level I’m going with rrheards definition.
Secondarily oil rich Middle East conflicts suck up most of Americas foreign policy air particularly if you include the broader war on terror (Afghanistan, 17 US IC Agencies and our increasingly international FBI whose prior domestic focus is becoming international in scope.
Addressing International terrorism was pre 911 pretty much the exclusive preserve of Israel. Now Israels fight has become the American 1%s fight even if we’ve had to stage scores of false flag attacks and let a few big ones to succeed to get the Clinton Bush Obama pre Trump US and most of old Pre Trump Europe to OPENLY support mass surveillance of their own populations.
Watching all these anti establishment political upheavals play out in Europe perhaps Angela Merkel should could go back to her career as a Quantum Chemist and leave the chancellery in the more capable hands of German EU opposition candidates.
Israel is the cause of international terrorism,at least in the ME.
A self addressed envelope?
And since 9-11,we have been co-opted into their expansion and insecurity project,which caused 9-11 in the first place,one way or the other.
A fiasco,totally unproductive for US,and something America first,if truly enacted,will end.
” How is that possible?”
A handful of extremely wealthy Jews (AIPAC) manipulate America to do their bidding.
America is the most powerful military force going.
America could tell Israel to accept UN borders but America doesn’t.
Maybe,and of course that is a big maybe,Trump will.
The zionists sure seem to think so,from their opposition to his POTUS.
Ellison should be given an opportunity to clarfy the issue himself!
Who is this “Ellis” that everyone is talking about? The article is about Keith Ellison. Ellison.
Who does not know that a Palestinian state in Israel territory is just a step in the direction of the elimination of Israel? A better solution is for all the Muslim nations to find a different location for the establishment of a Palestinian State… but that would be a step in the direction of ending the conflict with Israel and that is truly NOT what they desire.
“Who does not know that a Palestinian state in Israel territory is just a step in the direction of the elimination of Israel?”
But you are good with the elimination of Palestine, apparently, to make room for Israel.
Another ziotard liar who doesn’t acknowledge that the zionist state eliminated
Palestine.
It is why they are lost,this immersion in BS.
there are a multitude of reasons why hilary lost the election but this was one if them, not a positive word about palestine and the bending of the knee to Israel a country that violates every human rights law written, an agressive and violent neighbour who refuses to make any concessions to anyone or anything because they suffered horrifically 60 years ago.
they got a free country in our collective guilt,a massive fully weaponized military and nuclear weapons. enough already. they are big boys,they can stand alone. 60 years of parenting Israel has failed, they need to get out of our basement if they refuse to follow our rules.
its time to pay attention to palestine and the muslim people.
@Bar
“We” may conclude that several Intercept writers criticize Israel and it’s U.S./Western lobbies.
Did you know, that a wide variety of fundamentalist Christians have been delighted — and feel vindicated — by the past several decades journalistic focus on pedophile Roman Catholic priests? Anti-Catholic bigotry has a long history in the U.S.; Catholics were once on the Klan’s list right beside Jews and black people.
Are “we” to conclude that the Boston Globe (which first broke the reporting in the pedophile priest scandal), and much of the rest of U.S. media, “have made themselves into a space for anti-Catholic writers and readers?”
“Anti-Israel” writers is far too specific. Clearly, writers at The Intercept care about other issues, such as the surveillance state, the incarceration state, corruption in politics, the endless war on terror, the environment, and so forth. The non-conspirational common denominator is, we should hope, standing up to powerful interests.
GilG doubts that the promiscuous hurling of the “antisemitic” accusation causes any harm:
Not mere overuse, also misuse.
From Sarah Wildman writing at the Forward, my emphasis:
As all sensible people know, and Wildman says, constant deployment of the accusation robs it of power. Ten years ago, if I had found a significant number of people online, many of them Jewish, calling me an antisemite I would have been, to understate, distraught.
No longer. It now occurs constantly and I don’t give two shits at all. To speak the truth about Zionist history and current policy in Israel, is to be inundated with this bogus accusation, so I expect it and shrug it off.
Worse, now when I identify an antisemite I almost always feel compelled to include a parenthetical along these lines: “I mean the actual thing, not the nonsense spewed by Israel apologists.” This I have to do in the hope of recapturing some power to shame, a power many Zionists have robbed the word “antisemite” of.
Firstly there is a difference between misuse and overuse. The post I was responding to used the word overuse.
Secondly the converse of what you are complaining about Mona happens on this board far more often. When I pointed out that Glenn used the term anti-Zionist rather than anti-Semite to describe Ture no less than 5 different posters took issue with my use of anti-Semitic and chose to lecture me on the overuse of the word. How ironic that the same people who claim that the term is used too much don’t even accept it when used to describe the likes of Ture.
On the other hand Glenn’s claim that the critics of Ellison were engaging in Islamophobia was accepted without question even though he actually supplied zero evidence that any of the criticism of Ellison was due to his faith.
I can understand why people can be upset with the misuse of the term anti-Semitic but when those same people rail against any use of the term while at the same time having no issue with the use of the term Islamophobic being misused as well, I call that hypocrisy.
Islamophobic is not being misused in the above article. Your claims there are truly stupid, and constitute merely more of your common whataboutery and misdirection, which I will not always engage. Nor will I do so now. Declare victory, rant that I can’t counter your claims — I don’t care. No one familiar with both of us will believe you.
Whether “overused” or “misuesed” (and it’s both) Zionists have caused the antisemitism label to nearly lose all meaning and power. That’s a problem one would think you would care about. But no, you’ve jumped to yet another inane and stupid manufactured point to pick at vis-a-vis Glenn’s writing — and a digression about how many people here said what about your vacuous spewing — one which is as meritless as your picking and misdirection virtually always are.
As usual you’re the one ranting, and you cant counter my claims.
I didnt jump to anything. My points on this thread have been consistant. The fact is you cant make a case for Glenns use of the I word. Now go call me some more names and swear you will ignoe me unless the members of your adoring public demand it. Too funny.
You don’t believe that.
Nor do you believe that.
But you’ve engaged in this public posturing before, and no doubt will again.
I truly believe both those things Mona.
How about you prove my belief is wrong and you make the case?
What public posturing do I engage in ?
@Mona
Crickets, just as I expected. Too funny.
Gil, you silly goose, I don’t respond to psychological manipulation such as you attempt. You can scream from the rooftops that I “can’t” answer you, I DO NOT CARE. Enough people reading here, who know my record and have seen yours, know better.
Did you see below where Gator stated that I’d probably be along to document more facts about the IDF for one of our new hasbara trolls? I sure enough was.
No, Gil, it’s my easy reach into my archives to effectively rebut anything Israel apologists spew that you so deeply dislike. But I won’t waste my time when your spewing is too dumb to need my time and attention.
The readers here know all of this, Gil. And they know how inane is your attempt to deflect from the Zionist attacks on Keith Ellison. You are not exactly subtle. Jack Green is a D- hasbara troll and you, Gil, are only a C+.
Anyone who matters — who has critical thinking skills they do not subordinate to a hard narrative as Zionist like you so often do — sees this.
Keith Ellison is being targeted by Israel apologists for his expressions of sympathy for Palestinians, and they aren’t above stoking Islamophobia to do it. That’s the reality you cannot and have not rebutted — as is usually your problem with reality on anything concerning Israel.
Yes Mona I can see by 6 paragraph response that you don’t care or have the time to state your case and I’m sure those “people who matter” you always refer to can see that too.
i recall in early ’09 the look on nettyahu’s contorted look on his face when he flashed to axelrod in shock dismay and anger as if to say “Hey axelrod, what’s up with your boy, he ain’t takin’ orders. what is this?” Don’t recall the issue but Barack’s trip to israel must have seemed like a double cross.
FF 2016 and the fix was in and AIPAC’s horse Hillary takes a dump halfway around the track. Bernie, the jewish darkhorse and obvious better choice trapped in the gate. DWS caught stuffing shenanigans into every conceivable crack and then some – never mind leaks, the look was on her face too. Then the DNC comes apart like a pinata, every excuse another hit.
And a long came Keith. Straight talkin’ Keith. No two-faced Keith. No lyin’ Keith. Along come honest Keith sayin’ it like it is. It’s mainstreet vs moneystreet. Fasten your safety belts, put your seats in their full upright positions. We’re probably in the eye of a hurricane.
Many of us are anti Likud and we often get branded as anti -semites because we disdain Likuds policies .
Reading these posts and watching the last year of interminable blather, I think one thing remains true for 99% of us.
Something is terribly wrong.
I also suspect the chemistry of 8 billion human beings will have the final say.
8 billion? sounds like a prediction. short on food supply, housing, jobs, etc. 8 billion and champaign can pop some corks. Sometimes i wonder if this over eager war readiness is not a mask to put down internal celebratory cork popping. Least wise the native Americans stood their ground, and prevailed.
A reality not yet real.
Something is terrible wrong Milt.
The US and European (EU) status quo (acquiescence to NATO and US hegemony) is being questioned and, increasingly, rejected. What can the US really do about Fake News in the rest of the interconnected world. Begin Extraordinarily Rendering foreign journalists?
It Greens in Austria. Alternative Parties in Spain. Nationalists in France. Grexit in Greece. Italian impending departure from EU.
Germanys’ intractable entirely Post Snowden unusually surveillance target rich immigration policies (widely adopted) have become intolerable for most EU members. I mean first Angela complains about her phones being tapped (understandibly growning up in East Germany and Eric Honeker Stasi. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-19/angela-merkels-early-years-in-east-germany-shaped-her-crisis-politics) and within 18 months shes quashing NSA investigations and conceding the mass surveillance she found do oppressive in her earlier years that are clearly regulated in the German Constitution. In fact flipping on this key issue of relevance to all Germans uncomfortable with current immigration policy
‘Germany NSA spy scandal will give boost to nationalist organizations’
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/368990-germany-bnd-nsa-cia/
Meanwhile Russia, US to start talks on rebel withdrawal from Aleppo – Lavrov Kerry
The blatherer in chief derides blather.
The man in a bubble,totally un-self aware.Were you in Yellow Submarine?
Jeremy?
Mr. Greenwald
In your last article on emergence of the “alt-right”, you pointed out that the anti-Defamation League criticized the appointment of Steve Bannon in the Trump administration. In your link, the ADL took issue with the appointment of Steve Bannon by Trump:
“………“The ADL strongly opposes the appointment of Steve Bannon as senior advisor and chief strategist in the White House,” the organization wrote about one of President-elect Donald Trump’s first choices for his new team. “It is a sad day when a man who presided over the premier website of the ‘alt-right’ — a loose-knit group of white nationalists and unabashed anti-Semites and racists — is slated to be a senior staff member in the ‘people’s house.’ ”……”
So it is not surprising that the ADL takes a stand against a former worker for the racist organization, The Nation of Islam, and (clearly) believes from his statements that this country of seven million people controls (owns) the US government:
“…….The United States foreign policy in the Middle East is governed by what is good or bad through a country of 7 million people…….”
Is there any disputing the obvious implications of that statement by Ellis? If that isn’t promoting a typical far right and far left anti-Semitic trope of Jewish control of the US government, then the ADL should disband. You can’t parade that as anything else.
In addition Congressman Ellis also “hinted” that George W. Bush might have been responsible for 911 and compared him to Hitler (which makes him somewhat of a nutcase, Telegraph, ):
“……..Addressing a gathering of atheists in his home state of Minnesota, Keith Ellison, a Democrat, compared the 9/11 atrocities to the destruction of the Reichstag, the German parliament, in 1933. This was probably burned down by the Nazis in order to justify Hitler’s later seizure of emergency powers……..”It’s almost like the Reichstag fire, kind of reminds me of that,” Mr Ellison said…….. After the Reichstag was burned, they blamed the Communists for it, and it put the leader [Hitler] of that country in a position where he could basically have authority to do whatever he wanted.”…..…”
The Democratic Party is the “big tent” party of identity politics and the party is moving left, so the choice of a progressive Bernie Sanders-supporter is unsurprising, but the ADL is a watchdog for Jewish interests. They don’t oppose Ellis because he is black. They don’t oppose him because he is a Muslim. They oppose him because of his troubling past associations and because he advanced stereotypes of Jewish power which could be a (rare) window into how he really thinks. What could be more obvious?
It’s been a while since I bothered to read any of the blather you write around here, but just thought I’d pop in for a moment to delineate the sort of sleazy technique you use to misrepresent what people are actually saying.
In the above bolded bits, it’s clear that it is you equating Ellis’ statements about US foreign policy – which, to a large extent, IS influenced by Israel’s own policy wishes – with Israel, as you write, (own[ing]) the [entire] US government.
The implication of Ellis’ statement regarding US foreign policy in the Middle East is uncontroversial because it is true. The implication of your statement would be racist indeed, if it were true. But it isn’t because he didn’t say what you’re trying to imply.
As for the rest, I agree with rrheard that if you can’t master basic formatting techniques such as blockquotes or, at a minimum, include links to the alleged verbiage you are attempting to quote, then you should probably be regarded with the considerable skepticism regarding the content you offer for consideration you so richly deserve.
That’s just transparently shoddy commenting that isn’t proof of anything as written, let alone the stereotypes of Jewish power that you allege. You used to do better work here. Or maybe you didn’t.
p.s. I won’t get involved with an extensive back-and-forth with you because it’s a waste of time. But, by all means, blather on…..
Doc Hollywood has a, um, prescription for dealing with craig’s self-inflicted double-talk gaping wounds called: ‘craigsummers v. craigsummers’.
*I still prefer moonshine!
Moonshine has a lot more upside to it than monkeyshine. Always has. Also has the added benefit of being self-inflicted. ;-}
Is Ma Mabel enjoying her jam? :-)
Oops, I forgot about ma!
*she’ll be jammin’ before the week is out … from ‘the girl who still cans’ ;)~
“……..Doc Hollywood has a, um, prescription for dealing with craig’s self-inflicted double-talk gaping wounds called: ‘craigsummers v. craigsummers’…….”
For the most part DocHollywoods posts are personal attacks. If he wants to attempt to label me hypocritical on some issues, I’m OK with that. A straight forward response will work just fine though. Just don’t encourage him to use that horrendous format which is ridiculously hard to read – and I am guessing most people don’t read them. Much of the time, I don’t read them.
Thanks.
Better to try to convince Joan Walsh that Hillary Clinton isn’t god’s anointed one.
“Better to try to convince Joan Walsh that Hillary Clinton isn’t god’s anointed one.”
Good one. Or to that affect….Barrack Obama.
Pedinska
“…….US foreign policy – which, to a large extent, IS influenced by Israel’s own policy wishes…….”
OK. If you want to get technical about it, Ellis clearly states that US foreign policy is “governed” by, not just “influenced” by “what is good or bad through a country of 7 million people”. Govern means making policy. If Ellis had said that US foreign policy is “influenced” by Israel, then I would certainly have agreed with him. After all, Saudi Arabia influences our foreign policy, but doesn’t govern it, OK? I could have said “controls (owns)” US foreign policy – and that is more accurate.
“…….As for the rest, I agree with rrheard that if you can’t master basic formatting techniques such as blockquotes or, at a minimum, include links to the alleged verbiage you are attempting to quote, then you should probably be regarded with the considerable skepticism regarding the content you offer for consideration you so richly deserve……..”
Well, you always have the option of suing me. In fact I know where you can find a lawyer (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1557447/Bush-like-Hitler-says-first-Muslim-in-Congress.html).
“…….You used to do better work here………”
Na. I have always done consistently poor work. Nice try though!
Thanks.
>”They don’t oppose Ellis because he is black. They don’t oppose him because he is a Muslim. ..”
I mostly agree with that, craig … you should have stopped there.
bah.,
Instructor, remedial education @ The Intercept
bahhummingbug
“……..I mostly agree with that, craig … you should have stopped there……”
Sorry, but I had to also defend the honor of the Israel lobby which influences foreign policy, but does not control it – like Congressman Ellis suggested.
Oy vey, the honor of the Israel lobby would be better served if you defended the poor, downtrodden and put-upon Palestinian people …
…
“…..the honor of the Israel lobby would be better served if you defended the poor, downtrodden and put-upon Palestinian people…….”
It might be, but that is not their job.
On the contrary, given the deplorable conditions of the Palestinians within your midst … the honor of the Israel lobby depends upon it.
1948 destroyed all that homage to America,now we are all racist antisemites.
Very sad,a bad year,and a terrible 68 years hence.
They used to love US,but its all over now.
We used to get breakfast in bed.When we got weary,they’d ease our aching head.
If you want to smear a black American Muslim congressman … oy vey, contact Pastor Pence, President-elect Trump transition team leader, Glenn. *Saban is chump change.
GG says: “Democrats who are sincere about …”
Democrats, or Republicans for that matter, are sincere about one thing and one thing only — to keep their patrons happy and their pockets full.
The attack on Mr. Ellison is about tribal power and influence — it is a parallel of the “birther” attacks on Obama.
And, yes, research shows that if you repeat a negative story enough, regardless of the facts or the explanations that follow, it will leave a negative impression. Anti-xxxx is a negative slur, and by repeating it in this negative form you are reinforcing the negative associations.
Don’t get me wrong, this story needs to be told!
However, we need to learn to defend against this kind of propaganda by changing the way the story is being told — in a positive way about Ellison and a negative way about his accusers.
It is difficult for me to enter this conversation because I know only what I am able to read in this publication and others. Ellison is one hope for the Democrats. I want to believe that he might actually lead the party in ways that satisfy me. But the party has little integrity anymore so his job will be tremendously difficult, should he become the chair. My belief is that he could make a difference for those of us who identify as Democrats to bring us back into the party with enthusiasm. As it is now, I feel abandoned. Smearing Ellison has created a sideshow, I agree. And the way Washington seems to operate does not reassure me.
@ Bar — “Um, the reason you know about the 1200 human shield procedures is that the IDF released that information. When Israel’s high court ruled that the IDF must stop, it did.”
Um, when an army HAS TO BE TOLD to stop using civilians as human shields, doesn’t that indicate some sort of problem? (Mona may happen by and document that the IDF did not actually stop, but let’s leave that aside for the moment.)
Is this an example of the IDF’s noble “fighting ethics” of which you have boasted?
>”Um, when an army HAS TO BE TOLD to stop using civilians as human shields, doesn’t that indicate some sort of problem?”
Did I tell you, gator, mama bah recently told me that as a child of Appalachia she only knew of the ‘Jews’ from the Bible and thought they were ‘extinct’ (like the Pharisees, I reckon!). *she will be glad to know y’all are still alive and kicking./
It’s interesting that in some parts of the country and world one might live a long time without encountering any Jews. I’ve several times had the experience of being the first/only Jew someone has met, which is a lot of pressure, let me tell you. (I went to law school with this Jewish guy who was the living embodiment of every negative stereotype, and I shuddered to think about him constituting some of the other students’ first impression…)
I’ve several times had the experience of being the first/only Jew someone has met, which is a lot of pressure, let me tell you.
Oh, that’s nothing. You should try being a short, white, blonde woman… with an actual, functional brain…..from the heart of the Midwest. :-p
Just in case we don’t run across each other between now and then, wishing you and yours the Happiest of Chanukahs. :-)
Thanks for the good wishes Pedinska, much appreciated.
You do realize, or maybe you don’t, that a smart blonde daughter of the Midwest is nearly every straight Jewish man’s secret (or not so secret) fantasy… But I digress.
When my middle son was 7 he came home from school quite concerned.
Him: “Mom! Sammy’s family doesn’t have a Christmas tree!”
Me: “Maybe Sammy and his family are Jewish?”
Him [pondering a few seconds]: “No, they speak English.”
Of course, we did have some Jews in the college town. Our dentist was one of them and his English was quite good. So it all worked out. ;)
:-) My daughters find the absence of a Christmas tree in our apartment at this time of year somewhat unfair, but this is mitigated by the Christmas tree in the building lobby, which we have allowed them to adopt as “their” tree. Which will work out fine as long as they don’t tell grandma about it.
The Christmas tree of course is a nordic- germanic tradition to go into the forrest and decorate the tallest tree ad midwinter night. Xmas trees were even loathed in NY in the 19th century. I remember reading a quote from either the NY Herald or NY Times from that era, that the silly German tradition of christmas trees will never catch on in this country.
Um, when an army HAS TO BE TOLD to stop using civilians as human shields, doesn’t that indicate some sort of problem?
Yeah, it does Gator. That sort of behavior, and the atrocities the US continues to be responsible for in the Middle East, are what makes the courage of soldiers like those who showed up in North Dakota to support the No DAPL protestors worth encouraging. As is/was the sort of courage exhibited by these Israeli soldiers,
I don’t know what came of that self-sacrifice, or how Israeli law addresses refusal to follow illegal orders, but I would characterize that action, without hesitation, as noble and the kind of fighting ethics we need far more of in the world as it is far too rare at present.
Yes, I can and have documented that before. Of course they didn’t stop. Who would make them?
Among the myriad sources on the IDF’s use of human shields, including minors, in Gaza during the summer of 2014 is this from the Israeli journalist, Haggai Matar.
It is the culture of ‘smear the talker’ that really irks me the most. I have witnessed the pernicious growth of the carefully crafted smear tactic, the weasel words of denigration so finely crafted to make refutation or adequate response almost a waste of time. But rejecting the tactics of smear and denigration is a must. It is time to stand up so I say to Bar in the comment below; you are wrong and you are a smear artist and you can go to hell.
Ellison wants to be a part of a corporate owned arm of a cyclops
which is used to destroy the lives of millions of muslims.
That arm (the democrats) works with the other arm (the republicans)
because they are controlled by a single vision which lacks the
ability to see depth. The brain behind that single eye interprets
everything in terms of private corporatized profits and it uses
lies and misleading statements to help deceive its victims until
it can devour them.
The cyclops will eat itself, if it thinks there is money to be made
by doing so. To the cyclops, Ellison is just a bit of its fingernail.
The saddest part of this is that Ellison, like the overwhelming
majority of those who identify as democrat or republican,
lacks the ability to realize there is no integrity within the cyclops.
So Greenwald, I see that your site attracts many people who like to speak ill of Jews. I don’t mean anti-Zionism, I mean outright antisemitism. This reminds me of the commenting boards I’ve seen at Breitbart. So, in light of your publication publishing this piece, https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/steve-bannon-made-breitbart-space-pro-israel-writers-anti-semitic-readers/ , may we conclude that the Intercept has made itself into a space for anti-Israel writers and antisemitic readers?
I’m anti-Nazi’s. Does that makes me a hater of Germans? Seeing that Nazism is connected to Germany. Or is Germans not part of a pure race, and therefor can’t be thrown into one group? I would really like to know. Does Germans go through as all Caucasians? One huge white race? Like I’ve said, I would like to know. It’s important. I don’t want to be anti-Nazi’s if it turns out I’m suddenly anti-all Caucasians as well. It will fuck up my whole anti-stance.
I can’t talk for all the Intercept readers, but me myself is against Zionism just as much as I’m against Nazism. It’s a political ideology that is based on bullshit. Supremacy bullshit. No one, never mind what their skin colour or political ideology, is above criticism. If that criticism is only based on skin colour or race, then yes, then the person giving that criticism can take it and shove it up his arse, but if it’s based on how a certain group treats another group, then yes, that criticism should be seen for what it is, and then you can’t use your skin colour or race to hide behind. Cowards does that. Supremacist does that.
Never mind my question, Glenn, one of your readers/commenters (ValkLeroux) took a moment to explain it all to me.
i am quite offended at your speaking ill of this site and which i believe to be a false accusation. Because of your libelous protrayal, i feel terrible that you insinuate that many people speak ill of jewish faith persons and i demand that you retract that accusation or provide proof. If you fail to do that, i demand that you cease and desist what i consider to be a lie and that which you say negatively affects my reputation here in as much as you discredit my posts by casting a negative light upon this site which it does not deserve. I further demand that you retract your defamatory statement.
attention legal affairs.
Time to contact the AADL. Anti Anti-defamation league.
About time to bring the ADL strong arm tactics into the light.
What is this a ManTech (http://investor.mantech.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=652099) personnel trolling for the US military psyop ?
Relax chief. This is a safe place for anti Israeli Deep State writers and a safe place for all the jewish people including those of a more nationalist bent who view whats transpiring politically in Europe (Austria, Italy, France, Greece, Russia, Brexit, Trump).and the success of recent OPEC negotiations as a solid win for Russia Today, The Ron Paul Institute, Paul Craig Roberts and Alex Jones and Donald Trump.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=israeli%20survaillance%20equipment%20manufacturers
Several years ago, Keith came to my college campus to speak during the Rosh Hashana (Jewish new year) service. I can’t remember what he said word for word, but he showed a deep appreciation and understanding of the Jewish people, and spoke of defending the same values of tolerance and justice that I learned during my own Jewish upbringing. He’s undeniably the type of person we need to turn this sad, embarassing democratic party around.
I’m so ashamed of the right wing Israel defenders, and even more of the democratic party that grovels for their donor money. They are undeniably doing more to make the world a more dangerous place for jews than anyone
“In other words, Ellison — 26 years ago, while a student — simply argued that college campuses should not be deemed “safe spaces” in which debates over Israel are barred: an utterly mainstream view when the topic to be debated is something other than Israel.”
This has to be intended as a joke.
How many Palestinians have you killed?
How many are you going to kill?
How many would you like to kill?
Do you enjoy killing Palestinians?
Do you enjoy killing gentiles – you know, the ones who have oppressed you for centuries?
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/02/senate-responds-to-post-trump-anti-semitism-by-targeting-students-who-criticize-israel/?comments=1#comment-318498
“the now ironically named Anti-Defamation League”.
Or as I call it, the Alpha Defamation League–because nobody does defamation like the ADL!
When orgs that are supposed to combat racism get political and support Israel, that is basically what you get, yes.
Commenter Richard Pearce called it the “Apartheid Defence League” below. I thought it was special :D
how about Always Denying Liberty?
Antisemite is such a meaningless term now. Let’s just all call ourselves antisemites and be done with it.
Antisemite is not a meaningless term.
Check the dictionary.
“Antisemite” has been rendered nearly meaningless. Check the promiscuous misuse by Israel apologists that has robbed the label of much of it’s power to shame.
Overuse makes a term near meaningless, Jack.
How can overuse make the term meaningless?
When i hear the word racism used a lot i dont think it makes the term meaningless. I wonder why we live in a world where it needs to be used so much.
Com’on Gil, when branding critics of Israel/Zionism REFLEXIVELY as antisemites, then how does that NOT diminish the term?
It is in part also true of other accusations of racism, BTW, but no one does it ‘better’ than the Hasbarists.
The Israeli G’ment has repeatedly tried to have its overseas critics (journalists) retract on the spurious grounds that said criticism is ‘antosemitic’ (for instance).
In the US, that bastion of Free Speech, a more open discussion of Zionist policies has really only begun in earnest in the last decade or so. In part because the overuse of the AS term now doesn’t frighten most decent people so much anymore.
How did you feel about Glenn’s use of Islamophobic in this article? Other than the fact that Ellison is a Muslim can you point to any evidence that the problem the “ADL, Saban, and others ” (always the mysterious others) have with Ellison is Islamophobic? Ironically in this article and the comments the charge that people use the term anti-Semitism too much appears way more than the actual charge of anti-Semitism which I only saw once supposedly by Saban. The ADL which has sparked this last sub thread didn’t use that word to describe Ellison yet there is the charge of it’s use all the same in the comments. How do you supposed that happened?
I just lost a lengthy comment is response to you and don’t feel like retyping it all right now, I’ll respond tomorrow.
Liberals love tossing the word “racism” about. It’s become as common as the pronouns you, me, and I. Worse, actually; it’s boring and tedious.
which is worse?
A. anti-semite
B. anti-palestinite
C. anti-americanite
D. cannot decide, i’m lost, dazed and confused, huh
If you are lost why not use your favorite Barb. Zionists killed Jesus. You use to be so proud of that line and now you seem afraid to claim it. How come ? Are you afraid? Hey and how come after I told you what I do the make the world a better place you chickened out from telling us what you do? Could it be you are ashamed to be a parasite home all day post your nonsense on this board?
Parasite, Gil? You on the other hand are doing all this typing from work, I presume?
The Romans(or their proxy) executed Jesus at Jewish direction,or pleasure.
This is not disputed by any rational human.
Jesus wouldn’t be whom He is and was without that ,btw,so Jews have no one but themselves to blame for Christianity.
Funny dat.
Dahoit you moron. The point was that barb here goes around saying he only hates zionists not jews, unlike you who admits to your hatred oh jews, but said it was zionists who killed jesus. Thereby outing himself . Get it dickwad?
Dickwad?WTF is a DW?Can’t be worse than a lying zionist.
I’m just pointing out reality,that yes,Jews were responsible for Jesus’s death,although the Romans carried it out.
And wo that event,your hated Christianity wouldn’t exist,which of course is hillaryous.
And who are the real haters?Very easy to point them out,as they are the serial liars who don’t like the fact that humanity(most,outside corrupt bought off pols) doesn’t condone their land grab apartheid project.
And I’ve never seen hatred expressed by barabbas,other than hatred of the status quo.
E. They’re equally bad.
Yes, we need a new version of Spartacus in which every slave exclaims, “I am an anti-Semite!” Or, perhaps, a new version of Huckleberry Finn in which Huck says, “I would go to work and steal the Palestinians out of occupation again; and if I could think up anything worse, I would do that, too; because as long as I was in, and in for good, I might as well go the whole hog.”
What about having Rep. Tulsi Gabbard as head of the DNC?:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/naomi_klein_tulsi_gabbard_travel_to_standing_rock_20161204
Given the topic of Islamophobia, it’s hard to understand why anyone would suggest Rep. Gabbard (Kudos for the Standing Rock stand, not withstanding) with her own Islamophobic issues, at least according to this article:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/curious-islamophobic-politics-dem-congressmember-tulsi-gabbard
Dear Glenn,
As a reader, I truly appreciate this piece. As an observer of American Journalism, I’m really at a loss as to why everybody only talks about what the Republicans and Democrats put out as news. And I completely agree that the smears on Ellison is news.
But I’m wondering why American Journalism doesn’t come up with it’s own news, and it’s own opinions. For instance, the wonderful commenter Jeff D pointed out below that there are plenty of other better contenders within the Democratic party, far superior as a candidate than Rep. Keith Ellison, such as Rep. Barbara Lee, or Raul Grijalve. And that got me thinking. My personal favorite person in American politics for some time has been the absolutely brilliant Marcy Kaptur. I’m sure there are plenty of other fine contenders.
My point is that I’m at a loss as to why American Journalism doesn’t come up with stories about how the Democratic party is involved in a farce about the DNC pick. They don’t want to change. They’re picking another one who is palatable to the establishment, and that only means the same old song and dance. This whole Ellison thing is a sideshow about Israel. It has nothing to do with the Democratic party and it’s dead future. Can we not have articles written on who actually deserve to be in that position?
My apologies in advance for imposing my sudden thoughts on the subject on you and your readership.
Great piece and point of view, as usual :)
Best,
AIC
Nice post, silly question, AIC.
“Corporatisation pays” is the simple answer to your question. Most ‘journalists; are lackeys of Big Money, PERIOD!
“brilliant Marcy Kaptur” Given that Rep Kaptur is an Arab-American, I can just imagine how that would play out, in much too similar ways to Ellison.
WHAAAAT??? She’s from Ohio and with blonde hair. She’s Arab American???
Holy shit!!
I just wiki’d her. Her parent’s are both Polish Americans.
and she’s Roman Catholic.
Whoops! My bad.
Part may be due to people not wanting to run the DNC. It’s no doubt a tough job, in addition to their day jobs. (Plus, having to deal with all the lobbyists and others who have wormed in.)
As for Kaptur, I’m not a fan of her for her being anointed to take out Dennis Kucinich.
I understand your position, but it wasn’t her fault. It was the democrats who went along with the re-districting, that pit her against Kucinich. The democrats hate their progressives. They just wanted to get rid of one. It’s the worst party imaginable.
I was a life-long Democrat, having voted for the party in every election beginning with Adlai Stevenson in 1952.
But no more. Not as long at the “Democratic” Party is controlled by Israel-uber-alles traitors like Haim Saban.
What a pathetic figure the United States cuts. Being led around by the nose by the apartheid, perennially bellicose, fascist state of Israel.
Worse, by a nation that is nothing more than an aggregation of ungrateful panhandlers — spitting in our eye each time Uncle Sam drops a coin in Israel’s bottomless tin cup.
“In a state practicing apartheid, would Arab Muslim legislators wield veto power over anything? At only 20 percent of the population, would Arabs even be eligible for election if they squirmed under the thumb of apartheid? Would an apartheid state extend voting rights to women and the poor in local elections, which Israel did for the first time in the history of Palestinian Arabs? Would the vast majority of Arab Israeli citizens turn out to vote in national elections, as they’ve usually done? Would an apartheid state have several Arab political parties, as Israel does? Would the judiciary be free of political interference? In the 2003 Israeli elections, two Arab parties found themselves disqualified for expressly supporting terrorism against the Jewish state. Israel’s Supreme Court overturned both disqualifications.”
Israel is an apartheid state, for reasons that you have seen extensively and copiously set forth here literally dozens of times. But you are a hasbara troll, and as such, your function is to keep throwing out and recycling the same discredited hasbara garbage, over and over and over.
When 2.7 million Palestinians are withheld political rights (and more basic rights too) by an occupying force, how is that not APARTHEID, Jack?
Desmond Tutu on Israeli Apartheid (IBT):
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/desmond-tutu-condemns-israels-humiliating-apartheid-against-palestinians-1439770
Jack is now going to tell you, as he has claimed innumerable times, that Desmond Tutu can’t be trusted because he is an antisemite. Yup, that’s right. Desmond Tutu.
As demonstrated by a totally anodyne statement he made at a Jewish theological outfit in the 80s, but which duplicitous hasabra-ists and other Zionists grotesquely misrepresent. It’s what they are and what they do.
One doesn’t need Tutu to see Israel is operating an Apartheid-style system anyway. Two eyes will do the trick.
“Would an apartheid state award its top literary prize to an Arab? Israel honored Emile Habibi in 1986…Would an apartheid state encourage Hebrew-speaking schoolchildren to learn Arabic? Would road signs throughout the land appear in both languages? (Even the proudly bilingual Canada doesn’t meet that standard.) Would an apartheid state be home to uni¬versities where Arabs and Jews mingle at will, or apartment blocks where they live side by side? Would an apartheid state bestow benefits and legal protections on Palestinians who live outside of Israel but work inside its borders? Would human rights organizations operate openly in an apartheid state? They do in Israel.”
“Would human rights organizations operate openly in an apartheid state? ”
Does an apartheid state have roads for “Jews Only”?
Sure it does.
Desmond Tutu has lived in South Africa, but has not lived in Israel.
Benjamin Pogrund has lived in both countries.
Benjamin Pogrund
“…during 26 years as a journalist in South Africa I investigated and reported the evil that was apartheid. I saw Nelson Mandela secretly when he was underground, then popularly known as the Black Pimpernel, and I was the first non-family member to visit him in prison.
I have now lived in Israel for 17 years, doing what I can to promote dialogue across lines of division. To an extent that I believe is rare, I straddle both societies. I know Israel today – and I knew apartheid up close. And put simply, there is no comparison between Israel and apartheid…”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/22/israel-injustices-not-apartheid-state
heh heh….. clever, benyamin, clev….ah
but not fooled
kilt any palestinians lately?
Yes, and as you’ve repeatedly been told, Pogrund is a devout Zionist living in Jerusalem. Zionist lie and mislead, all the time, when it comes to the nature of Israel and its actions. You should know this better than anyone since you are a promiscuous practitioner of duplicity on behalf of the ethno-religious supremacist State of Israel.
The African National Congress has long identified Israel as an apartheid state, and it does so with compelling facts combines with reason.
No one used the word apartheid when the US occupied Germany & Japan. No one used the word apartheid when the US occupied Iraq. No one uses the word apartheid regarding China’s occupation of Tibet, Turkey’s occupation of Cyprus, or Morocco’s occupation of Western Sahara. So why are you using the word apartheid for Israel’s occupation of the West Bank?
Desmond Tutu said: “Whether Jews like it or not, they are a peculiar people. They can’t ever hope to be judged by the same standards which are used for other people.”
You’re impossible to take serious, Jack.
Keep wasting bandwidth though. Most serious Zionists would consider you an embarrasment to their cause, Jack. Seriously, you’re about as worth reading as Barbra or Nut Said.
Jack Green seems to have posted a litany of factual information. Which ones specifically do you claim to be untrue?
I have such respect for folks who believe in a sky-dweller but not a sky-dweller’s son.
Jews draw the line,
Jesus, at the foolish idea of a child by virgin birth.Billions of dollars is hardly a coin dropped.
Its very clear that the same neoliberal elements and the money people dont want Ellison because he isn’t pro Israel enough, maybe not a Zionist .
Before the election the media went on and on about a republican civil war, well trump won and now there is a democrat civil war, the neoliberals on one side who should be purged after losing to trump, and the berniecrats on the other side who are more in tune with class issues.
So, one of two thing will happen, the old guard neoliberals will win, they will alienate the berniecrats, those people will stay home or vote third party, say hello to trumps second term.
Or, the far left wins, and they have a fighting chance now.
Somewhat related to the Ellison smears:
I saw that Nancy Pelosi proclaimed on a Sunday news show that she doesn’t believe people want the country to go in a different direction!
there we go – Nice of her to educate America on the aspects of aging live on CSPAN’s emerging reality show. Who wants to go to the old folks home when you can do nothing in the halls of congress? But wait, as she ages her tolerance for impudence will diminish and we’ll get to see her strike out – with a closed fist – at those who disagree with her. Lots of fun ahead!
Liz made the same claim. Their collective echo chamber has exceedingly thick walls.
She said that, huh? She’s not getting older, she’s getting dumber. Or maybe her staff hasn’t told her about the election results, yet. It would be easy to miss stuff in the outside world in that pile up in Pacific Heights.
I’ve followed Nancy’s career for a very long time. She was once one of the more promising members of Phil Burton’s San Francisco machine — not such a bad one, as political machines grow. As she has gained power, prestige and and stature, she has become increasingly regressive and increasingly a willing whore and shill for the 0.1%.
Finally, she will always be remembered as having been the most completely useless Democrat to serve as Speaker, ever. Ever!
Amen.
She will be remembered for losing more Democrat seats than any party leader, ever. Many problems would be solved if maximum age limits were applied to high office. Yes, I mean Trump and HRC, as well an Pelosi, Feinstein, McCain, and McConnell.
Nancy of the pearls.
“she has become increasingly regressive and increasingly a willing whore and shill for the 0.1%.”
She is part of the top 0.01% now. They don’t get out much to mingle with us lowly mere mortals.
Tends to be a bit tricky getting a grasp on the reality base big picture when those licking your toes for their share of the crumbs falling from your gilded table fear making you even the slightest bit unhappy and thus tell you only exactly what you want to hear.
Ten years ago, before the mid-term elections, I beheld a crew of rightwing libertarians fretting about the prospect of Nancy Pelosi becoming House Speaker. These deluded people seriously ranted that she’s “far left,” and the word “Marxist” was tossed around.
One could only wish Pelosi was infected with some Marxist understanding of the corporate-run state. There is no far left in the United States, certainly not in federal elected office. The closest thing is Bernie, and he’s no Jeremy Corbyn.
I saw that Nancy Pelosi proclaimed on a Sunday news show that she doesn’t believe people want the country to go in a different direction!
As tempting as it might be to consider these people stupid and/or delusional (as I indicated in a tweet linking to the following article yesterday), it’s not correct.
They are executing the only strategy open to them that enables them to cling to whatever shreds of power not yet denied them by the very people they have so ill-served.
Democrats don’t see a need to change policy – just the way they sell it
How does the Democratic leadership respond? With denial, obfuscation and insults:
Yeah, that’s your story and your sticking with it. The rest of us poor folk are just “confused” about how it all works. Keep it up and see how “confused” we are in 2018 about your inability to grasp what we really want.
To be fair, this election did have Democrats gaining six seats in the house. Still, it’s not much due to Pelosi. And, if she didn’t care about the high crimes of Bush (remember her saying impeachment was “off the table”?), would she care about Trump?
While this isn’t the most important issue in the U.S., Israel is totally disgusting and needs to be totally reined in if not brought down. Their human rights and war crimes against the Palestinians should have triggered trials and convictions, and Israel’s founding itself was totally illegitimate and threw the native people off their land. But considering that the U.S. was also founded by stealing land and also committed what would now fit the definition of human rights and war crimes, it’s not surprising that the U.S. would support a fellow partner in crime like Israel.
And BTW, I’m Jewish for anyone who wants to call me anti-Semitic.
In that case someone will call you a ‘self-hating Jew’…
How was Israel’s founding more illegitimate than any of the countries founded out of the former Ottoman Empire? I don’t think you aren’t an anti-Semite Jeff you are just ignorant.
I’m ignorant? OK, explain to my Jordanian friends whose families’ lands were stolen by Israel what’s ignorant about what I said. You’re full of shit.
better yet get your Jordanian friends to explain to you how the Hashemites who never lived in Jordan were given the entire country.
I asked you to explain how Israel’s founding was more illegitimate, which is what you claimed. You clearly can’t do it. That’s what makes you ignorant.
LOL – literally! Thanks for that, friend.
We need millions more like yourself.
Israel’s founding did not throw the native people off their land.
What happened was that racist, xenophobic Palestinians started a war against the Jews. Wars create refugees.
Oh for fuck’s sake. Your hasbara trolling is insufferable.
You quite literally spew the same vacuous and wrong talking points from the hasbara manual, over and over, entirely regardless of their having been extensively debunked more times than you have fingers.
I’m seriously doubting ‘Jack’ is Real. I think he’s troll in the stricter sense of the word. In it for the disruption and the LULZ he gets out of that.
Too cartoonish to be real, IMO…
Sometimes I have thought so, too. He is so over-the-top. But he really does follow hasbara talking points as seen all over. His shtick is from The Script, just more obtusely and clumsily stated than most.
Nah, he’s for real and quite likely doing this for free. I’ve encountered enough real-life Jack Greens to be fairly sure of this. Hell, I’ve BEEN Jack Green, albeit with a more expansive vocabulary.
That’s a complete lie and you know it.
Israel is the MOST legitimate country because it was created by the World.
Your Prime Minister would be proud of your persistent dissemination hasbara, Jack.
*of
“Israel is the MOST legitimate country because it was created by the World.”
Brilliant.
@Gil
Then you have a reading comprehension problem. Glenn was citing Ellison’s objections to Ture/Carmichael not being allowed to speak on the following grounds as described by Ellison, and reported by CNN, which Glenn quoted:
Carmichael was an anti-Zionist. And those were the grounds Ellison says were invoked to prohibit his speaking. Glenn properly mirrored those grounds in his reporting on Keith Ellison and the matter at the University of Minnesota. Why? Because a reporter from CNN was deploying that quote and Glenn was writing about that CNN report about the U of Minnesota matter, which is about “anti-Zionism.”
Jaysus on a crutch.
Absurdly, you also declared:
You either cannot read, or you didn’t read the column. Are you paying attention to the words, Gil? (You certainly didn’t with regard to the University of Minnesota material.) Please go do so now, and especially note the stuff about this fellow called Haim Saban. You do know who Saban is, don’t you, Gil? And you do know what he just (disgustingly) said about Keith Ellison, right?
Glenn wasn’t quoting CNN or Ellison in his description of Ture as an anti-Zionsit. The term is Glenn’s not CNN or Ellison’s.
I know who Saban is, and he is a donor to the party, and a private citizen. He is not an elected official or part of the governance of the DNC. I did not comment on him or defend him.
Instead of diverting like you attempted to do in your prior post with your defence of Ture’s anti-Semitism how about addressing address my comments.
give it up Gil. You are confined to a hospital bed somewhere and are still recovering from an accident that left you dazed and confused. You may figure you need all the practice you can get but believe it or not, this is planet earth and it’s packed with lots of humans looking to get thru life with dignity and comfort. Practice helping them instead.
As a matter of fact I do just that Barb. While you sit on your ass all day thinking of new ways Jews are trying to get you, I have a job as a social worker in a day treatment clinic for people with severe mental illness. It doesn’t pay much for for a master level of education but I do like to feel I’m making a contribution. I went back for my masters after a 30 year career in IT I have enough of a pension and 401K so that the money isn’t an issue. Now tell me what you do to make the world a better place, and again please explain why you think Zionists killed Jesus.
I hope a social worker like you isn’t going to try and smear people with the irrelevant assertion that ‘they are unemployed’, Gil, as you did before. Or suggest Mona should date Barbra. That was pretty low, even for someone who claims Trumpist antisemites are antizionists.
Please tell me who I smeared in that way and provide the quote. Also just so you no Gert long before I made that comment about Barab and Mona, Mona made a comment about me and another poster being in love because I thanked him for saying something nice about my post. What do you think of that?
You claimed Mona was unemployed on account of her spending much time here (pot and kettle, no?). You are making similar claims about B., right now. If you can’t remember what you wrote yourself, seek help.
Some social worker you are, Gil. The employment status of commenters here is IRRELEVANT. But smearing remains a Zionist speciality, few have honed that to such a fine art as you guys…
As i told you both brought up the fact that they are home all day. And when i am not working myself i am under no obligation to play nice with an asshole who claims Zionists crucified Jesus and a person who makes false aqusations about me all time. I see you have made some yourself that you stand by even though they were proved wrong gert.
The term is Glenn’s as a journalist describing a CNN report on Keith Ellison’s quote pertaining to the University of Minnesota, a quote from that outlets reporting of Keith Ellison’s claim that the Carmichael ban was based on intolerance of the anti-Zionist viewpoint. THAT is what Glenn is writing about. Period.
You are as duplicitous as the CAMERA you so absurdly defend as merely a “pro-Israel” outlet. You, Gil, are among the Jews who have foregone any allegiance to truth and honesty by allowing yourself to be corrupted by Zionism. It’s as tragic as it is disgusting to behold.
The man is a billionaire who FUCKING OWNS the DNC. God Gil, is this corruption of your morals and critical faculties REALLY worht this allegiance to an ethno-religious, proto-fascist nation-state?
The report Glenn is describing uses the term anti-Semitic twice as many times as it uses the word Zionist. Try actually reading the article.
I didn’t defend CAMERA Mona and I already proved that. Unfortunately being exposed as a liar and a charlatan seems to cause you to go into full on false accusation mode.
He owes the DNC !!!!!! Wow now your in full on conspiracy bat shit crazy mode.
Go take some more of those drugs you blame your mistakes on and imagine you are pulling the wings off flies, I know that comforts you.
one more thing I suggest you read the CNN article Glenn linked to Mona you will see that counter to your claim it is not merely about Ture’s “anti-Zionism” .
Yes it is. About the quote Glenn took from them, requoted, and examined, it’s about anti-Zionism.
The term anti-Semitism appears in the article 18 times the word Zionist appears 9. Face it Mona you get caught in a lie again. You couldn’t have even read the article on CNN without seeing that.
It’s interesting how of the two highest-profile contenders for the chair it would be Ellison getting shit for something he said as a student a few decades ago rather than Biden for being a paid lobbyist/speaker for a foreign Islamic terrorist organization a few years ago.
What Muslim Keith Ellison believes.
While in Congress Ellison’s support for Israel is for deception purposes only. As a devout Muslim he is committing Islamic taqiyya, lying for the cause of advancing Islamic dominance in the United States. Muslims who take the oath for public office are subversives and should be charged. Muslims hold that Sharia is above U.S. law.
Quran 2:216 “Fighting has been enjoined upon you.” Allah is speaking to all Muslims. It is mandatory for them to engage in religious, political, cultural, and military jihad or holy war.
Quran 8:12-13 “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger, indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.”
“Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.” — Muslim Brotherhood Motto
“It is in the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet.” —Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna
Ellison just makes it too easy. From the horses mouth- “I’m in the process of deciding this issue of whether I can perform both roles,” Ellison said, according to the New York Times. Referring to his work in the House, he said that “All there is to do is to vote ‘no’.” Really?????? What a great American.
Ellison then promised that “every other moment” not spent voting “no” will be devoted to his work for the DNC. In 2009, Ellison campaigned on behalf of a Libyan-born Muslim who called for Palestinians to embrace “the jihad way.” As you can see his radical believes were not just a “one time thing back in college” spoken 25 years ago as some of his apologist have said. Obviously, within the past seven years he continues his radical hard left views.
Bar
Oh yes, fer shur. The Most Moral Army™. Now, let’s have a reality check:
And none of that includes the heinous reports from so-called Operation Protective Edge. The IDF uses Palestinian children as human shields. Routinely.
There’s a lot, lot more stomach-turning depravity to report on the IDF, and about official Israeli policies toward Gaza and the West Bank. Just continue with your hasbara campaign, and I or others will introduce you to it all.
Colonel Kemp – IDF avoids civilian casualties
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN1MkAGuVyY
Colonel Mustard, in the library.
Colonel Kemp is a throwback to a few arch-Zionist British officers who helped form the embryonic IDF and robbed Arab resistors of any material means to resist their oppressors. These people believed a Jewish client state in the ME would be useful to their fading Empire.
A few decades later the US realised that dream, unfortunately continuing to this day. That Empire is in trouble but it will still take some decades before it retreats…
IDF Chief of Staff publicly spoke about how Breaking the Silence was asked to provide actual evidence as to their claims and they did not. Breaking the Silence is only taken seriously because so many people would like to believe their claims. Like any army, IDF makes mistakes and at times has people who do things that they shouldn’t. But on the whole, this is a moral fighting force that does its best to fight by laws that, frankly, simply make the task of fighting non-state forces beyond challenging. That’s precisely why the US army has sent teams to learn from the IDF’s methods fighting in Gaza.
“the Israel Defense Forces made use of the ‘human shield’ procedure on 1,200 occasions”
Breaking the Silence is a collection of righteous and truthful Jews. Your opposite.
Um, the reason you know about the 1200 human shield procedures is that the IDF released that information. When Israel’s high court ruled that the IDF must stop, it did.
Breaking the Silence is a collection of people who have a very specific agenda and are willing to manipulate and invent facts to achieve their goals. Unlike you, I’ve watched a large portion of their video testimonies and am amazed at the traction they get on the basis of their nonsense.
Oh, and that you, Mona, consider them to be “righteous” makes my case for me.
So much for Bernie’s fi-fi jihad to trump power-elie capture of the dems. Only a sucker and a square would continue being ensnared by this inside-outside rubbish. We need green socialism to replace this faith-based centralization of hoping for sone nebulous change. I would never vote for this neoliberal duopoly of anti-American traitors and their inverted imperialism.
oh glenn, cant actually smear someone with their own words
http://www.investigativeproject.org/5713/full-audio-of-keith-ellison-remarks-at-esam#
How can you write about Haim Saban without mentioning he’s the “creator” of Power Rangers?
My son and his stupid parents:) made him a billionaire.Sheesh.
“With the advent of Donald Trump and policies such as banning all Muslims from the country”
I honestly expect more from Glenn, than this! Regurgitating main stream media misquotes and demonisation, I am no fan of Trump… but he never said that! Glenn just reported he did, please show us proof he said that one of his policies was to “ban all muslims from America”. If you cant, shame on you for lying in your article and promoting the main stream medias lies!
Apparently Greenwald and Goldberg translate things that the ADL correctly views as offensive as being quite benign. And, on the other hand, considers criticism of these statements to be “islamophobic.” Unbelievable. What nonsense.
Oh, and by the by, Israel often does the bidding of its patron, the USA, even when it goes against its interests and may cost Israeli lives. For example, it has stopped short of complete devastation of its enemies on the battlefield because the US has stepped in. It allowed Hamas to run in elections at US demand, something Gazans and Israelis both rue to this day. It was willing to absorb Iraqi Scuds just so Bush I could say he had Arab allies attacking in his war. And so on. Even Bibi froze settlements, formally and informally, under this administration and released 76 Palestinian murderers simply because Kerry wanted him to do so, supposedly to bring Abbas to negotiations, but also to strengthen Abbas’s rule. At Israel’s expense, because of US demands.
In Ellison’s world, Israel is sucking money like an ATM, giving nothing back and is doing so because of Jews outside of Israel. It’s ugly, pernicious, and clearly misses some critical elements of why the US supports Israel. I’d explain why, but I have a feeling Greenwald ain’t listening.
Israel IS sucking money like an ATM. They are at fault! Only because AIPAC owns the USA congress, does the USA support them.
Israel has the right to defend themselves however they choose. They made their bed and can lie in it.
The USA needs to attend to business at home.
The whole world benefits from Israel’s advances in science, medicine & technology, but we Americans also benefit from our access to intelligence from MOSSAD which is considered one of the world’s best intelligence agencies & from being able to pre-position military supplies in Israel in case we want to intervene in the Middle East & from Israeli expertise in developing weapons systems. We gave F-15’s to Israel & Israel improved them, 700 modifications. Thanks to Israel, we now have better warplanes. Also, Israel is a laboratory & the Israelis are guinea pigs in learning how a democratic society can deal with terrorism. Israel is on the front line battling terrorism. The terrorists say “First the Saturday people (Jews) then the Sunday people (Christians.) Israel is the barrier island protecting the West.
Maybe 1% of Jews know how to install a lightbulb,fix a car,know the capital of Indiana,or make sense.
A failure of modernity,as they sure know how to squeeze dough from failure.(banks)
“because of Jews outside Israel”
You don’t think a subset of American Jewry has played a substantial role in maintaining US support for Israel? AIPAC and others have certainly expended much effort and resources toward that end. Are they just wasting their time and money? (Jews are very smart with money, everyone knows this, which I am allowed to say because guess why. Actually that stereotype is untrue, which is a damn shame given my horrible track record with personal financial decisions, but I’m rambling.)
most entertaining thing to appear in The I comments sections for ages, Gator.
this is your lucky day
plasticsbechtelWell, AIPAC certainly did expend much effort to quash the Iran Deal. They not only failed, 8 out of 10 JEWISH senators voted for it. In the USA, a great deal of Israel’s support comes from non-Jews (and ethical politicians, but that’s another discussion) and their large voting blocs. That’s the reality.
Jewish money has soooooo much influence that Jews are among the top three donor groups to Democrats (unions and lawyers being the other two) and yet somehow the Dem convention considers language on Israel that’s anathema to most Zionists, and supports a POTUS that cuts off weapons to Israel during a war, supposedly because of his uncertainly about their ethical handling of the war, even though at the very same time the US military’s Chief of Staff praises Israel for its ethical fighting (and states that he has sent out teams to learn from the IDF about its tactics). But I’m rambling.
I’m not sure you’ve been rambling, but you have presented a series of non sequiturs. I never said any Jews are all-powerful.
Israel enjoys substantial support from the US, and some American Jews have played a substantial (though not exclusive) role in maintaining that support. Would you seriously dispute this?
As for Israel’s “ethical fighting,” I don’t know whether to laugh, cry or puke. Maybe all three at once?
I responded to your AIPAC remark. Directly,
As for ethical fighting, yes indeed:
https://youtu.be/mvFNvQSwZf8
So, you should puke and cry at all of the disgusting, hideous, nasty attacks on an army that sought and seeks to fight as fairly as possible, to the point where our own army seeks to learn from them.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.625194
My response has two links, so it has to be moderated. In the meantime, here’s one of the links:
https://youtu.be/mvFNvQSwZf8
I’d respond with links to photos of dead and maimed Gazan children, but I don’t know how to provide a link and anyway it would be depressing and I have enough fucking problems.
Once the decision is made to use tanks, artillery, and aerial bombardment in a densely populated civilian area, there is no such thing as ethical fighting. As hundreds of babies and kids would attest, if they, you know, could.
Nonsense. A war has to be fought. Do you expect soldiers to fight with sticks and stones? Israel lost 67 soldiers in part because it sought to minimize harm to Palestinian civilians. It also sought to avoid these wars, particularly the last one. When you read IDF analysis of reviewed incidents, it is astounding how careful they try to be. They have lawyers helping with decisions, multiple layers of analysis of the situation before they fire. They make mistakes, sure, but it’s not malicious. And they’re fighting a foe that uses civilians as cover, openly!
Hamas uses media and these visuals of dead/injured as part of their war. They, who launch the war, use civilians as cover, build tunnels and weapons systems in and under civilian homes and buildings, want YOU to blame Israel for fighting their war. How about this: instead, focus on Hamas.
BE FOREWARNED ABOUT THAT LINK
=== do not click! ===
most likely a programmatic hackback exploiting common system weakness that cannot be fixed
http://techgenix.com/atombombing-code-injection/
no shit, wtf is ‘//youtu.be’? someone is playing nasty games….
The latter, definitely. How much of the most lethal and sophisticated weaponry on Earth do your IDF snotballs need to pulverise a crumbly nut, Bar?
Former Supreme Commander of NATO and U.S. Secretary of State Gen. Alexander Haig described Israel as “the largest US aircraft carrier, which does not require even one US soldier, cannot be sunk, is the most cost-effective and battle-tested, located in a region which is critical to vital US interests. If there would not be an Israel, the US would have to deploy real aircraft carriers, along with tens of thousands of US soldiers, which would cost tens of billions of dollars annually, dragging the US unnecessarily into local, regional and global conflicts.”[6]
He probably uttered that right after Reagan got shot,as he wanted Jewish support for being in charge.
Another wanker.
An American aircraft carrier with non American captains,pilots and crew,who give not one iota for US other than muscle for expansion.
“If there would not be an Israel, the US would have to deploy real aircraft carriers”
Um, do you think we DON’T have at least ONE aircraft carrier group within striking distance of the Mideast nations AT ALL TIMES? That’s some silly RHETORIC with ZERO BASIS in reality right there.
A phony baloney talking point ENTIRELY.
How nice of them.
So let me get this straight. You’re complaining about someone’s views being offensive in your estimation (do you need a safe space so you don’t have to hear him?) but you’re perfectly OK with the genocide of Israel’s adversaries.
Genocide? How is destroying an army “genocide?” Do tell.
Don’t play dumb. If the battlefield is a populated urban area, you know perfectly well what the depraved “complete devastation” you crave entails.
I was speaking about 1956 and 1973, actually.
gee wiz Batbrains.
After the israelis finish genociding the Palestinians and making it legal and all, perhaps i should hire you as to how to remove the israelis – legal and all – so that my trillions dollars investors funds can have hold love and cherish the whole kit and kaboodle. What about Syria? Got any advice on how we can grab Syria and throw out the tenants there? With all that land – and dont forget Jerusalem – i’ll be straight with you – you could make a killing.
The American Indians were not clever enough to present a claim to the entire continent based on God having “promised” it to them a couple of thousand years ago.
The entire premise of founding the State of Israel rests ultimately on other nations agreeing to accept this preposterous “legal” claim at face value.
Genocide? Evidence of genocide?
So, on behalf of the US, Israel conducts agency for which it is fairly compensated, more or less.
Huh?
Where did I say that?
Oh, why not inform the ignorant masses here? And while you are at it, you can explain why so many work so hard to maintain support for Israel, even to the extent of interfering with academic freedom as well as using an idiotic expanded definition of antisemitism. Why is this necessary if there is a good reason for this support? Do tell us.
Solid reporting, as always. Yet, is it really worth expending any effort to defend yet another politician who seems much more interesting in saying the right thing than actually doing it. Personally, I would never trust someone who actively supported the Nation of Islam without completely disavowing it – an organization with a violent streak and led by the hucksters nut-job Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan, who, in recent years, has taken to incorporating beliefs from Scientology.
It wasn’t until his congressional campaign that Ellison was confronted with and forced to address his involvement with the group. Rather than denouncing the NoI then, he instead chose to address a Jewish community organization via letter to declare he had never been a member, also speciously claiming his involvement was limited to helping to organize the Million Man March over a short period.
Ten years later, CNN accosted Ellison on the matter, correctly pointing out that he maintained an active relationship with the organization for a decade. Finally, Ellison wrote another letter to the ADL, renouncing the Nation of Islam, not for many of its innumerable bizarre and downright wrong positions, but solely cited his realization that the NoI staked some anti-semitic positions while its leaders had made anti-semitic remarks.
This guy sure is slippery…like any politician worth his salt. Who knows what he believes, if anything..? Does he seem worthy of your trust and support? I sure don’t think so.
Still, the research and information in this article is great stuff: It’s only its anchoring to Ellison as its basis I take issue with.
Ahh sanity does exist here!
According to Glenn, Kwame Ture, who said:
“the only good Zionist is a dead Zionist we must take a lesson from Hitler”
is merely anti-Zionist. But the ADL, Saban and the mysterious others are demonstrating “Islamophobia in its purest and most classic form.” because they don’t like what he said about Israel. Sheesh.
Not only that but he tries to make the case that Democrats have a smear campaign going on and the man who is going to be the most powerful Democrat in the country supports Ellison being the head of the DNC. I have no kick with Ellison, but tagging anyone who disagrees with his stance on Israel with a powerful word like “Islamophobia ” cheapens the word. Hmm why does that sound familiar?
Kwame Ture is, as I’m sure you are aware, better known as Stokely Carmichael, an icon of the civil rights movement. He did, indeed, say many rancid things not just about Zionists, but about Jews.
As you are aware, Zionist Israel supported apartheid South Africa. This was a gross affront to decency and to the sensibilities of black activists everywhere — and to all morally enlightened people. But Israeli leadership saw apartheid South Africa as in the same political position it was and is in — accurately. It’s quite common for Israel apologists — including some here — to excuse Israel’s support for apartheid in Africa as “necessary” or “understandable.”
Presumably, you do not think all Zionists, including yourself, should be tarred with Israel’s ugly history where South Africa is concerned? Even tho the Israelis who forged that policy remain revered in Israel?
Do you really think black activists are such sinners for replying with revolting commentary in light of Israel’s repugnant actions regarding South Africa?
In any event, Keith Ellison has never stated anything such as what Carmichael did about Jews, and Carmichael is revered for what he did for the African and African-American causes, not for his antisemitism.
I wasn’t saying anything about Ellison support of Ture.
I was objecting to Glenn use of the term anti-Zionist for someone who was clearly an anti-Semite, which Ture was, your excuses for it not withstanding.
Read what I posted again Mona.
Whatever is in your crazy head, I’m pretty sure is not in Glenn’s.
Really ? that’s all you got?
For some reason it is alright, among zionists and particularly zionists who are Netanyahu supporters, to tolerate extreme racist statements against Palestinians or non- Jewish semitic people. No congressmen are outraged when Israeli officials or American politicians direct hate and dehumanizing and false language at Muslims. Having read Goliath and The General’s Son and several other books and movies that are willing to confront this double standard, I am inclined to view accusations of anti-semitism with skepticism, understanding that hatred and abuse breeds strong reactions.
The real problem concerning this issue is not that there is some threat from anti-Jewish hate. That is rare and ineffective. The problem is that the accusation of anti-semitism has become a way to deflect any and all criticism of a well documented history in Israel of violent racist policies and colonialist theft of land.
How in the hell does that address one thing that I posted? How about instead of trying to use my post as a jumping off point for your rant you actually address the points I made.
GilG, when someone identifies as an anti-Zionist and you automatically brand them as an anti-Semite, you not only throw me down a slippery slope (don’t do that), you also cheapen the meaning of anti-Semite. The way it gets thrown around so much these days, you may find yourselves grossly outgunned if the rest of us take it to heart…
I didn’t brand anyone as an anti-Semite for identifying as an anti-Zionist.
I branded someone as an anti-Semite who used the phrase:
““the only good Zionist is a dead Zionist we must take a lesson from Hitler””
as an anti-Semite.
On the other hand Glenn used the term Islamophobic to identify people who disagreed with Mr. Ellison on Israel, but gave no specifics for what exactly was Islamophobic about what they said. Don’t you think that cheapens the meaning of Islamophobic?
A classic and typical cause of ZIONOPHOBIA
“One case of killing caused by “certain identification” this week should have shocked the world. Iman Alhamas, a 13-year old girl from Rafah, was on her way to school, following the same route she took every day. Suddenly deadly fire enveloped her. The doctors extracted 20 bullets from her body. Since not every bullet hits its target and some pass right through, it may be assumed that at least 100 bullets were fired at her from several army positions – one hundred bullets for one little girl. In her bag, only schoolbooks were found.
The army spokesmen issued the standard mendacious statement: the girl had entered a “forbidden zone”, the soldiers took her for a “terrorist”, the bag looked as if it contained explosives, etc. etc.”
(Uri Avnery, 9 October 2004)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.php
Barbara, what I want to know is how you can claim that Zionists killed Jesus and still try and pass yourself off as merely an anti-Zionist. Answer that please.
here is what you need to know
8 JUNE 1967
“Far worse than the more celebrated King David Hotel attack, which only killed 95 British and Arabs, and which led to the garroting of two British sergeants at Nathanya, was the attack on the small Arab village of Deir Yassin, in which 254 women, children, and old men were killed and their bodies thrown down a well on April 9, 1948. This particular village… west of Jerusalem, had managed to keep out of the fighting until that moment when the Haganah Commander David Shaltiti noted that Deir Yassin had been quiet since the beginning of the disturbances… not mentioned in any attacks on Jews, and one of the few places which had not given a foothold to terrorist bands.
Deir Yassin had done nothing to provoke an Israeli attack and had lived in peace with it’s Israeli neighbors. They had even cooperated with the Jewish Agency and was said by Jerusalem newspapers to have driven out some Arab militants.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.php
so in other words you have no explanation. Too funny.
face it Barb you’ve been outed. People on this board who keep harping about the anti-Semitism charge being used against people who are really anti-Zionist need to do no more than look at your claim that Zionists killed Jesus to know that indeed anti-Semites try and pose as anti-Zionists all the time and their real agenda has nothing to do with Israel it has to do with Jews.
I love it when you give me the opportunity to expose you again.
Yeah it does sound familiar. Like the use of the word ‘anti-Semitic’ on somebody who has a valid yet benign criticism of Israel.
You guys should stop screaming bloody murder when Zionist are called out.
Right now, in England, there is a young man running to head a student organization. His positions and statements are more ‘antiIsraeli/antiSemitic’ than Ellison (he supports BDS, has participated in the demonstrations against the Israeli regime in the West Bank, in fact was shot (rubber painted bullet) by the Israeli regime’s militants while doing so, worked with proPalestinian groups)
PS, not only was he born and raised (to the age of ten) in Israel, he’s a proud Jew, running to head the Jewish student union
What is his name ?
interesting that he isnt being branded as anti-semitic.
he must be jewish, not zionist.
The Dems should change their name to “Emocrats,” they’re so dramatically faux-sensitive about everything.
I prefer the younger Ellison, as he was much more radical and provocative – even if overzealous.
He seems all wimpy now, saying in his response to ADL that his record “proves” his “long-lasting support of Israel,” instead of just saying “Look, Zionists don’t scare me into approval of an apartheid nation which abuses Palestinians, so shut the fuck up and learn from what I’ve actually said.”
Another reason the Democrats don’t want him is that he supported Sanders instead of Queen Hillary.
If he gets some of his original savage “bite” back I could like him again, but he’s more politician than activist now.
Mostly I think both the Democrats and the Republicans should go fuck themselves and implode into non-existence, and the sooner the better.
I’m mostly with you but fear the risk of politicians’ aggregate arrogance, ignorance, arrogant ignorance, and corruption reaching critical mass upon implosion, creating a humongous anus-shaped void where our nation once stood.
Jesus I fucking WANT politicians, thanks. I want politicians with a goddamn clue. The Green Party is incompetent. As activists be whatever you want, but when we are talking electoral politics I want to win.
Let’s just take over the Democratic Party okay? It comes with a bunch of hostages. This is about power not virtue-signaling, which appears with Maisie in the form of a demand for “bite.” Yet the Green Party really does “bite” — they have had a quarter century to get out of their little pocket of society, take some risks reaching out to people who are not like them.
I think a 3rd party that is actually power-focused — meaning that they get enough people to say to the Dems, you can’t win without us, and we won’t support you unless you meet some demands — would be marvelous.
As for activism, you don’t need a party to tell you what to do. Just do your activism.
“I think a 3rd party that is actually power-focused — meaning that they get enough people to say to the Dems, you can’t win without us, and we won’t support you unless you meet some demands — would be marvelous.” – Vic Perry
I would NEVER be involved with any third party whose sole aim would be to make “deals” with Democrats! Screw them and their “sound machines” at the convention used to block out the chants of Sanders supporters so the folks at home watching the telly wouldn’t get a hint of revolt against Her Royal Highness. Taking credentials away from Sanders supporters and filling the seats with paid people from Craigslist, rigging the debates for Clinton, getting questions leaked from CNN for Hillary and on and on.
It goes back to Lucy taking the football away from Charlie Brown one….more….time. I will NEVER trust the Democrat Party again, ever.
I am FINISHED with the Democrats. They have burned every single bridge they had with their lies, deceit, arrogance, dirty deals, cheating and hubris.
We need a NEW party (I like The Citizens Party) where NO deals will be made with Democrats. EVER.
The Democrat Party needs to die off once and for all. They are GOOD FOR NOTHING.
And while we’re on the subject of Israel, I would like to see The Citizens Party take a strong stand AGAINST the State of Israel with no apologies. Supporting BDS reminds me of the boycott against South Africa which was supported by many including the State of California and Gov. George Deukmejian (a Republican!). Boycotts work and the fact that Democrats (like Hillary Clinton) want to prevent American citizens from boycotting Israel and Israeli products/services is an affront to everything it means to be an American citizen.
It is high time this country had a REAL debate regarding Israel, AIPAC and other organizations that continue to browbeat and strong arm members of Congress and others with their stupid threats of anti-Semitism.
l.
2020 for sure
just because
“I would NEVER be involved with any third party whose sole aim would be to make “deals” with Democrats!”
so I didn’t say “sole aim.”
Anyway, most people would have their own version of purist NEVER. They would “NEVER” be involved with a 3rd party. So good, a bunch of people who would NEVER build a coalition too. And who will NEVER win control of any major government offices.
I’m tired of pretending like we are getting anywhere having no other stated aims than this vague “hey let’s build a 3rd party that will be purely what we like” stuff.
Decades of this shit and the Green Party is more done than ever. OOh a recount, so awesome.
2020
Rep Keith Ellison was a speaker at “NOWAYTOTREATACHILD” campaign’s ( about Palestinian children in military detention ) congressional briefing in June 2015. No one would call him anti-Israel or anti-semite after hearing what he had to say…… that is of course if one has an open mind and is NOT ANTI KETH ELLISON, for whatever reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CnYkykpC-U
ps He has been to Gaza and seen what Gazans are going through.
After nearly 70 years of pussy-footing around the crimes of Israel against the Palestinian population it is high time we have leadership in the Democrat Party that will stop “going along to get along” and will FIGHT Israel and tell the damn TRUTH!!
I’d like to see Keith Ellison act like a man who is BRAVE and is not afraid of the TRUTH. At least Cornel West had the guts to stand up to Clinton supporters on the Israeli/Palestinian issue at the DNC platform hearings. Ellison needs some of West’s moxie:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=16568#newsletter1
But I fear Ellison is just another coward like all the rest through the decades. Which is why I am finished with the Democrats.
Not going along to get along anymore. We are running out of time to keep playing this deadly game pretending Israel is this saintly nation to which the entire world must cower.
Are you commenting on WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN? Does not seem so to me. Did you watch the video? Did you read what I have written? May be you should try again!
It is Israel’s expansionist policies that are promoting antiSemitism not those who question the perpetual land grabbing and denigration of Palestinian rights…The brutal Israeli encirclement of the Palestinians requires that all funds for Israel be suspended until the blockade is lifted and Israel commences negotiations for a two State solution..The Israeli lobby in America MUST be confronted lest we be trapped in a hundred year Zionist war…
We are now in the 68th year of the war for zion.
There have always been over the edge Christians, Jews and Muslims. Recently, the wacko Muslims have been more prolific, because the west is bombing the crap out of them for no good reason (other than making Israel feel better).
Give Ellison a chance, just like Trump.
The main role of the DNC chair is to convince Haim Saban to give more money to the Democratic Party. I’m not sure if Mr. Ellison is the most qualified person to do that, even if he has renounced all his past criticisms of the Israeli government. Many people claim to have been reformed, but then the Israeli government goes and does something crazy, and the criticisms re-emerge.
It may seem harsh to brand Mr. Ellison as an anti-Semite. But the US Senate has quite clearly stated that criticism of Israel constitutes anti-Semitism. So it’s a level playing field. This doesn’t mean it’s easy. Some politicians make the mistake of only supporting what the Israeli government says – such as its commitment to the two state solution. But this could easily be misconstrued as a criticism of that government’s actions, which are designed to prevent a two state solution. To avoid being an anti-Semite, one must both support both what the Israeli government says and what it does. This requires a politician to perform great mental contortions that are beyond the ability of lesser politicians.
So perhaps Mr. Ellison just isn’t suitable for the role of DNC chair. This is not a criticism, merely an observation.
Genius! Pure Genius!
Saban contributions to Clinton campaign – $10 million
Small contributions to Sanders campaign – $200 million
No Rhodes scholars needed to figure this one out. If you want the elites and troglodytes to control the White House, Congress and Senate keep allowing the ADL and billionaires like Saban to defeat progressive politicians and policy with their failed neo-liberal policies.
Seconded. The man is, indeed, a genius.
Mr. Saban may be a significant contributor at $10 million but it pales in light of what Bernie Sanders received from small donors – over $200 million! Your observation noted but I’m afraid it requires peripheral vision and fails to take into account Greenwald’s opinion. Is fundraising really Ellison’s achilles heel when Sanders troops can muster funds well beyond the influence of Saban. The ADL’s influence in the DNC gives ammunition to the uneducated Trump, Tea Partyists, KKK, supporters who already believe in the conspiracy that Jews run the US. So perhaps the ADL’s hyperbole over Ellison is just what the Trump Troglodyte’s need to continue to run the Oval Office, the Congress and Senate for years to come.
Brilliant.
@Benito Mussolini
I really enjoy your comments.
That should read orders of magnitude.
An ‘Order of Magnitude’ is a multiple of 10 while magnitude is any scalar, including fractional values, negative values, as well as zero.
Hmm. Very specific explanation. I have to say it was pleasant to read. I haven’t seen the word “scalar” used in a long time. Outside of a Physics book, it was nice to read.
The deal that Bernie likely did with Schumer not to contest the senate leadership, in exchange for supporting Ellison and perhaps some other things, is looking more and more astute by the day. Bernie wouldn’t have won anyway due to various reasons (that are mostly BS, e.g. establishment head in the sand).
His racism and ignorance is no worse than the average democrat
I’ve never seen Keith Ellison or any other American public official say anything about Israel or the conflict that Israeli human rights organizations/peace organizations, the Israeli left, and even former generals and Mossad Directors haven’t also said, and said more forcefully. The message as far as I’ve seen has always been anti-occupation and pro-peace, and indeed many in Israel argue that being anti-occupation IS being pro-Israel, rather than the “build baby build” attitude of the ultra right-wing Likudniks.
It’s ironic that until very recently, politicians and media outlets in Israel can have far more open debates about the conflict than our own can (Bernie Sanders’ historic focus on Palestinian human rights during the Presidential primary debates was a game changer).
Tail wagging the dog.
America and the world will likely be brought down, or continue being fundamentally divided because 0.2 percent of the world’s population (15 million people out of approx. 7.4 billion) had something bad happen to them in human history and because they think they are entitled (by text written by stone age goat herders worshipping a magical entity no one can prove exists) to some shitty piece of land in the middle of nowhere.
If there is any more “privileged” or special snowflakes in the world it is the Israeli state and its people.
Think how absurd that notion is. It’s like saying everyone of Armenian decent should control the world’s foreign policy.
It is written, as this is God’s planet, and as the spirit of God is within me, this is my planet. I am entitled to food to eat and land to sleep as God has put these before and with me. I share these rights equally with all people. Those persons who would or do deprive me of these rights offend me and God whose spirit is with me. Offending God the almighty and all powerful is risky. God may expect me to act on His behalf in defence of his policy. If i do not act on his behalf, i may be offending Him, and that is also risky as i do not want my life cursed or my soul cast into hell and damnation.
God is also aware that those who would steal from or deprive one of these rights also would deprive any and all others, and that is very risky.
It is without regret that i categorically reject the slaughter of Palestinians and theft of their land and offer no support. Additionally, the taking of my tax money for use by those who commit such acts i categorically reject. In opposition to such practices at this time i offer my voice – which God also provided me with. If you do not like what i have to say, file a complaint with God himself.
My soul is not for sale,
E Pluribus Unum.
you can’t sell what you don’t have…
descent
@rrheard
“15 million people … think they are entitled … to some shitty piece of land…. the Israeli state and its people”
Given that the population of the State of Israel consists of roughly 6 million Jews and 1.5 million Muslims, you seem a bit confused. Are you talking about Israel specifically or Jews in general? (Hint: there’s a big difference.) Which people do you believe “control the world’s foreign policy”?
Also too, your flippant reference to the extermination of one third of the global Jewish population in less than a decade as merely “something bad” that happened to Jews makes you sound like, well, something bad.
You’re taking his comment personally Gator. I don’t think it was meant that way. He’s making a point about Israel and the justifications presented by the Intelligentsia for the defense of Israeli behavior.
And he’s not really being flippant. It’s not realistic to expect everyone to behave like they should live through a moment of silence before they mention the Holocaust. To most people who’re not Jewish, while every genocide, like the Armenian Genocide, or the Native American Genocide, or Slavery and the genocide that came with it, is a tragedy, it’s possible for people to write and talk about them without being reverent. Doesn’t mean they’re being flippant.
I understand the point you’re making, and I’m sympathetic to it Gator. I’m just saying that you should give rrheard the same latitude that you give yourself when you write about slavery or Native Americans in a manner that can be perceived as “flippant” by members of those communities.
Good to see you Gator :)
Cheers.
It’s always good to see you, AIC.
You’re right, I did take it personally. RR said 15 million people feel entitled to certain land. I am one of those 15 million people and don’t feel entitled to anything except the rights conferred by American citizenship and the Constitution.
I would never, ever describe the slave trade and the institution of slavery as merely “something bad” that happened to black people once upon a time. Nor would I ever refer to the horrors visited upon Native Americans by white people as just another “something bad” that happened to some folks way back when.
big difference? The BIGGEST difference is between Jews and Zions, bigtime. huge. collasol. like right and wrong. good and bad. good and evil. But if you are a fan of exterminating people and taking their land, then just as Adolf was an anti-semite, some or many people might be anti-Ishmaelite. Go ahead, argue with that, make my day.
How are the Armenians, Rwandans, or any of a number of groups, reacting to their catastrophe?
Jews consider themselves a separate race; you’ve said so. I view that position as the ultimate form of bigotry.
Why have Jews never assimilated? the other 2 Abrahimic religions claim over a billion members each. Israel could not exist without siphoning off $billions every year; billions to pay for their healthcare and gasoline.
America and Americans first; Israel much later.
I don’t think I’ve ever characterized Jews in the aggregate as a “race.” I’m not even sure what that would mean.
The other Abrahamic religions have aggressively proselytized and sought (or at times forcibly compelled) conversion to their respective faiths. Judaism for the most part does not encourage proselytization or conversion. (The significance of the latter fact is, I suppose, a matter of interpretation.)
“Judaism for the most part does not encourage proselytization or conversion.”
Yes, it has an air of exclusivity.
One cannot be born to a religion unless one is going to claim exclusive genes, by default.
Humanity does not have a family tree. It has what is most accurately characterized as a braided river. Groups of people diverge over time but reconnect in the future.
@ Gator90
I’m not confused by anything. I’m trying to make a very simple point in very simple language. But I’ll rephrase it for everyone’s benefit.
Israel, and no other nation on the globe, controls the entire world’s ‘foreign policy’. That’s obvious. My point is that one of the nations on the globe, the United States of America, has a huge portion of its foreign policy and its legislators ‘captured’ by the perceived ‘interests’ of a small fraction of the USA’s (and the world’s nation’s) electorate (certain ‘interest’ groups, and a subset of the electorates voting population i.e. the subset (not all American Jews but a subset) that believe Israel’s right to exist and its government’s right to persist in its present policy trajectory both in Israel and with support of America).
But at base it is fair to say that the vast majority of the 15 million members of the Jewish diaspora globally believe in Israel’s right to exist. And in particular at a specific location on the map. Where do you think that “belief” comes from? Plan of Partition with Economic Union as Resolution 181; UN Security Resolution 242? That’s not really how its talked about. It’s talked about as if the location of a “Jewish state” (which is highly problematic as is any ethno-supremacist or theocratic states, say Saudi Arabia or any of the gulf monarchies) must and can only be in one location on the globe because “god” or “Yahweh” or whichever sky being label you’d like to attach has “declared” “his people” are entitled to such lands. Regardless of the consequences to the people in the region, or anybody else on the globe who has to take a side on enforcing that belief. And quite frankly I find it absurd.
Whether that same majority believes in its present policy orientation is disputable, but since that 15 million seems to not be able to enable a government in the state of Israel that can make a lasting two-state peace (as the infinitely stronger party) with their neighbors, then people can analyze that however they choose as far as I’m concerned.
Flippant? How about I rephrase again so as to make the point again. The Jewish population of Europe from approximately 75 years ago had something tragically horrific happen to it. That same something has happened to many many people over the course of human history. But it is only the Jewish diaspora in the present that has incorporated that horrific tragedy and failure of humanity, into part and parcel of their present human ‘identity’ and uses it as a cudgel over the rest of the globe’s population to advance the interests of the 50% of that diaspora that wants Israel to exist and/or in its present location and/or to live there. And it is an ‘identity’ that persists despite the vast majority of the globe not being responsible for those acts, and in fact being constituted of descendants of the people who fought to stop it.
So as soon as the Jewish diaspora wants to treat all other human beings who have suffered similarly (and by that I mean advocate for make all human objects of attempted genocide the equal of the Jewish experience, make sure to agitate on their behalf for a nation of their own (including Armenians, African Americans of enslaved descent, Roma, Cambodians, Ukrainians, Rwandans, South Africans . . . .) that functions like the state of Israel regarding its neighbors and as a function of their ‘identity’ then I’ll at least not perceive them as hypocrites or special snowflakes.
And just so you know I’m consistent, I don’t believe any “nation” is entitled to exist or should be organized as ethno-supremacist or de-facto theocratic states. It’s why I don’t believe the USA should be in bed or have anything other than cordial diplomatic relationships with Israel or Saudi Arabia. And we sure as hell should be taking sides, or providing foreign aid or selling or trading military equipment or technology to either until they change away from that governmental form or orientation.
And again to be clear, and my belief is, that the Israel-Palestine issue is just as much if not more the creation and fault of the victors of WWII’s insanely short-sighted policy (if not bigotry) with regard to the Jewish diaspora that remained after WWII and their inability in the present (for a host of morally indefensible reasons) to force Israel with all of the carrots and sticks at the global powers disposal to forge a lasting peace and two-state solution to the problem, that disarms and treats the region as semi-autonomous global historic religious UN protectorate or heritage site open to all to live there democratically regardless of any ethnicity, nation origin or religious belief holding political power over others living in the region who differ or are different.
Short of that, the problem appears to be intractable so long as the USA reflexively as a function of its policy gives de facto unfettered support (political, financial and military) to everything and anything the state of Israel does.
Last night I was reading various articles at Unz.com and came upon this link to the oral history of Edwin M. Wright found at The Truman Library.
Wright was General staff G-2 Middle East specialist, Washington, 1945-46; Bureau Near East-South Asian-African Affairs Department of State, since 1946, country specialist 1946-47, advisor U.N. affairs, 1947-50, advisor on intelligence 1950-55.
His oral history regards Zionism and the vast control the State of Israel has on the United States Congress and various presidents:
https://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/wright.htm
I haven’t quite finished reading it but I can vouch for the fact it is a REAL eye-opener!
8 JUNE 1967
USS Liberty attack by Israel/Johnson?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-uss-liberty-a-failed-israeli-false-flag-attack-against-the-united-states/5431151
You know what’s ironic about the above link? Global Research was listed by Propornot as a “Fake News” pro-Russian website.
“Operation Cyanide” anyone?
No thanks. We already had it.
The problem is it reaffirms the role of Identity Politics in the Democratic Party. So for example, Hillary felt all she had to do was put together a “winning coalition.” This for Gays, that for Blacks Something else for Women and so forth.
While you can make the case that balancing economic factions is a central role of government in America, dividing the county along the line of race and religion (and more bizarrely, sexual orientation) seems like a very bad idea. Americans have repudiated Identity Politics and Potty Politics.
Hillary didn’t even win the Vag vote.
http://www.justjared.com/2016/08/08/susan-sarandon-talks-politics-i-dont-vote-with-my-vagina/
When African-Americans protested against being relegated to “Colored” restrooms, was that “potty politics”?
PARTY PAH tee (n.e. us) pah TEE (french) A party is a political organization whose members have similar aims and beliefs. Usually the organization tries to get its members elected to the government of a country.
“When African-Americans protested against being relegated to “Colored” restrooms, was that “potty politics”?”
potty politics with two issues; only one doesn’t stink …
By defending and putting forward this white-people hating Farrakhan-defending chip-on-his-shoulder black Muslim into a high profile slot the dems will make trump et al very happy.
So aptly put by Haim Saban: “I’m a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel.” That means Israel ahead of the US–always.
How did the US allow themselves to be blackmailed by a foreign power?
Ellison is right–the US is Israel’s ATM. The image fits. The smear campaign is ugly but that only indicates how this lobby group works.
It’s hard to find much that represents the interests of Americans in terms of their democratic institutions and constitution.
Although I would like to see Keith become head of the DNC. The party is still so deeply corrupted vis-a-vis the election of Pelosi etc. that sadly, I don’t think he has a chance. He is a huge threat the status quo.
No he’s not and he never has been. He’s a master of going along to get along and to maintain his seat at the table.
C’mon Dug. He goes along to get along. Sure. I don’t think he’s the master of it.
Personally, I think Ellison at this point is better than almost anybody else in the Democratic party that I can think of. Throw me a name if you disagree.
But I agree with you, that Ellison takes after the Democratic establishment, in that he’s not opposed to multiple wars and all manner of other BS.
You and Doug are both right. Doug didn’t say Ellison is “the” master of it, but he is “a” master.
It’s not yet possible to be any more anti-establishment than Ellison is and also get any power in the Democratic Party. (See Sanders, Bernie.) But these conditions are changing, to a significant but not ideal extent, relatively rapidly.
It’s hard for me to think of anyone who could remake the Democrats into a party one might celebrate, rather than one that makes one endless nauseous with its lies and coziness with the Rulers.
I’d rather see it collapse, along with the other right wing of the one-party Imperial Machine.
And the real irony is, America could force peace and a two state solution tomorrow. It could tell the world with assistance of UN, and specifically Israel, you will give up your nuclear weapons tomorrow, dismantle your settlements, these are your boundaries, these are Palestine’s, Palestine will never be allowed to have a viable military, and the entire state of Israel will be a global protectorate as a “heritage site” and tourist attraction and anyone who touches it or attempts to cross its borders in a hostile way will be nuked into oblivion.
And since that’s never going to happen, basically for hoping the whole thing collapses. Incredibly painful for millions or billions including me, but I don’t think the human species can survive, much less evolve, unless something horribly catastrophic happens to force the survivors to wise up and put away the human race’s pettiness.
I’m not even sure why I believe human beings should survive in the long run if they think they are so superior to the rest of the life and “God’s creation” that they seem hellbent on destroying out of stupidity, avarice and fear.
Taking Trump at his words of America first precludes Israel being allowed to run roughshod over the Palestinians,as it eventually hurts US.
We shall see,but I wouldn’t rule out the Donald putting that precise pressure on Israel,as a security issue for US.
He owes them nada.
I will agree that Obama did take Dennis Kucinich on that airplane ride where Dennis got his special “Obama hat” and sucker, but I think Dennis Kucinich would be a good choice to lead the DNC.
I see where Dean has dropped out of the running.
As a reminder, here is the speech Kucinich gave at the 2008 Democrat convention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv0smG7ptcM
But God forbid that the DNC would do a mailing to the millions of Democrats at the grass roots to see who THEY want to head the DNC!!!
This type of “top down” cheating, arrogant , elitist thinking is what lost the election to Donald Trump.
Had Hillary Rodham Clinton not been shoved down our throats by the DNC Sanders would have naturally gone to the top and I believe he would have beaten Trump handily.
If I were head of the DNC the first agenda item would be to end the “Super Delegate” process!
Absolutely!!!! Completely agree with you. And that is precisely the reason it’s never going to happen. The Democrats just elected Pelosi and Shcumer as their leaders. They learned nothing. They’re still blaming Comey. I think the Democrats are dead. I just hope it happens swiftly so time isn’t wasted.
Pelosi is so totally out of touch that she actually said, “I don’t think the people want a new direction.” D’oh!:
https://news.grabien.com/story-pelosi-i-dont-think-people-want-new-direction
Exactly what he would do. Scares the bejeez out of them. They are trying to thread this needle with their eyes closed. They dont want to lose the bankers to another party. Which means they dont really want money out of politics and obviously neither do the people with the money. But if this situation is not remedied real quick, this is what will happen
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/04/496457/Brazil-congress-vote-graft-probe
i expect we will hear about this monday.
Really? How is Ellison better than other members of the Progressive Caucus, like Barbara Lee (my rep) or Raul Grijalva? By your own comments he’s not as good. For example, Lee voted against the Afghan and Iraq wars.
You’re correct Jeff D. It’s the media bias in me. I couldn’t see past my own head. Personally my favorite pick would be Marcy Kaptur. I think she’s Batman. But that would upend the apple cart. What we’ve got here with Ellison is the mirage of the contentious politics of two sides, when Ellison in reality, is the same side as the Establishment side.
I hang my hat to you sir.
Marcy Kaptur for president of the world!
The story of Zionist influence over US policy in the ME has a long history. For instance, the State Department was strongly opposed to US support for the grossly unfair UN plan for the partition of Palestine. State even brought back to Washington ambassadors from around the Middle East to encourage Truman to reject the plan. However:
“As my colleague Zaid Jilani very ably documented several days ago, even the most inflammatory of Ellison’s campus statements – including his long-ago-renounced praise for the Nation of Islam – were grounded in righteous opposition to “white supremacy and the policies of the state of Israel” and “show him expressing sympathy for the plight of underprivileged whites and making clear that he was not antagonistic toward Jewish people.””
There seems to be a bit of cultural projection onto the motivations of Ellison, e.g. “grounded in righteous opposition”
I’m not sure how constructive it is to rationalize and excuse (even renounced) membership into what the SPLC deems a hate group.
Don’t all racist/nationalist groups justify their ideology by feelings of cultural/racial atrophy and ‘incursion’?
1. Do you have any evidence that Ellison was ever a member of NOI?
2. Would you be willing to assist us in combing through your history, examining it for actions and statements that should never be rationalized or excused, notwithstanding that you may have since renounced them?
1. ““As my colleague Zaid Jilani very ably documented several days ago, even the most inflammatory of Ellison’s campus statements – including his long-ago-renounced praise for the Nation of Islam”
-This article
“MINNESOTA REP. KEITH Ellison’s bid to lead the Democratic National Committee has set off a flurry of articles noting his ***affinity,*** in his younger years, for the Nation of Islam — a black separatist group that practices a nontraditional form of Islam, whose former leader, Louis Farrakhan, frequently engaged in anti-Semitism and anti-white speech.”
-https://theintercept.com/2016/12/01/potential-dnc-leader-keith-ellisons-controversial-law-school-columns-show-anger-not-bigotry/
So we’re splitting hairs. Amend my usage of “membership” to “affinity” or “praise”. My point remains unchanged.
2. Are you assuming that I subscribe to the notion that one’s past youthful (or not) ideology (in a stream of ever changing personal perspectives) should brand that person for life?
2.1 Is it possible that I’m attempting to nuance the unequal application of standards based on ethnocentric perspective? (hence, “don’t all racist/nationalist groups justify their ideology by feelings of cultural/racial atrophy and ‘incursion’?”)
2.2 Aren’t you conflating the rationalization for the affinity/praise of a hate-group with the notion that people should be bound by their past?
My personal opinion is this:
A.) Rationalizations of the affinity/praise for a hate group are not constructive (for hopefully obvious reasons).
B.) If Ellison’s ideology/affinity has changed, then his past perspective should have no bearing on his qualification for a given political position. So why shouldn’t he head the DNC?
My initial point still stands.
No it fucking does not. Words have meanings and those three have quite different meanings.
As for the rest of your lame dodging, bobbing and weaving: can’t be bothered.
“No it fucking does not. Words have meanings and those three have quite different meanings.”
‘Johnny is a member of the KKK.’
‘Johnny has an affinity for the KKK.’
‘Johnny has praise for the KKK.’
Respective to my point, please elucidate the qualitative differences of these three statements.
“lame dodging, bobbing and weaving: can’t be bothered.”
Haha…the irony is palpable. I explained exactly what I was talking about with points that you could have addressed or refuted. You instead chose to misinterpret my comment, argue the straw man, sling shit and run.
I repeat:
I blame your English teachers.
You blame my English teacher for your cantankerous behavior?
Why don’t you actually try to answer the request??
“Respective to my point, please elucidate the qualitative differences of these three statements.”
+1
So…Keith Ellison is barred from further political advancement because as a young African American male he had an “affinity” for a religious group that addressed the plight of that cohort?
Many American Jews are repudiating their prior adherence to the ethno-religious supremacist ideology of political Zionism, an ideology that has been responsible for much depravity. Those repudiations are welcome, and one should understand the deeply sympathetic reasons that drove many decent-minded Jews, after WWII, to adopt such a pernicious political belief and cause.
Ditto for African-American males who flirted with an illiberal belief system such as NoI. Victimized peoples often resort to extremist and immoral positions. Many then come to their moral senses.
That’s exactly the opposite of what I said. Maybe you missed this:
“My personal opinion is this:
A.) Rationalizations of the affinity/praise for a hate group are not constructive (for hopefully obvious reasons).
B.) If Ellison’s ideology/affinity has changed, then his past perspective should have no bearing on his qualification for a given political position. So why shouldn’t he head the DNC?”
In other words, I completely agree with you.
Q. and the reason that the zionista cult in israel is opposed to a two state solution is what?
A. What would be the capital of Palestine?
More likely the answer is that, by having all the distractions and ‘disputes’ about where the borders of Israel are drop out of the discourse about Israel-Palestine, what will come to dominate is the question about why the Israeli regime denies citizenship and residency rights to so much of its legal population. And having Apartheid be what is front and center is the last thing the Israeli regime wants.
mostly agree
what i struggle to point out is how the character of participants – which you point out – based on the actions they take results in a possession that most succinctly reveals their motivation and relationship with all others.
it is my belief that the chesspiece that matters most in their game of domination, the milestone that matters, is Jerusalem – their prize capture. It’s like Jericho was the first miletone.
The planet would be better served if the UN decided that Jerusalem is a world heritage site owned by no one but every one.
Maybe the most logical solution would be to make Jerusalem an international city shared by both the Israeli’s and Palestinians with the Mosque staying in the hands of the Palestinians under security by the United Nations??
Do you mean in like this?
“UN General Assembly resolution 303 reiterated the UN commitment to internationalization of Jerusalem, and designated it a “corpus separatum” – separate body. Under the original partition plan of 1947 (GA resolution 181), …”
Thanks, Glenn. Those of us who voted for Jill Stein are seeing our choice ratified by each and every step the democrats have taken since the election.
Did you not read the article Jeff? Although Glenn would have you believe that there is a smear campaign against Ellison by the Democrats the fact is he is supported by the most powerful Democrat in the senate and Glenn gave no evidence that other Democrats have smeared Ellison. Your response shows just how powerful propaganda can be when used on the unthinking masses.
There’s nothing repugnant about attacking Ellison. He’s despicable, even for a muslim. This liberal bias here completely invalidates anything interesting that’s periodically posted, like with the secret whatever tower in Manhattan that’s supposedly monitoring everybody. Unacceptable. I’ve seen enough. Whether the Lefties understand it or not, the business of America – is business. Think about that, it might help you all in the future. Not going to monitor anymore. It’s just not worth it. Everyone, other than Commie morons, is sick of whining Left Bank socialist tripe. You had your day in the sun.
Why, I do believe you are right, and that you should not subject yourself further to reading or commenting here. From what I hear, Stormfront still allows new commenters and I’m sure you’d be far happier there.
and JESUS WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN.
Was Buddha a Buddhist?
no
How about we leave Jesus out of it. Seriously?
There’s nothing repugnant about attacking Ellison? Seriously?
as a born again christian, Ellison does not frighten me one iota.
The new religion shall be Americanism.
i guarantee it.
My guess is that Hanover is trying to re-create the classic “Nuke a gay whale for Jesus” from an alt-right perspective….
You’re asserting Ellison is “despicable” without providing anything concrete to back it up, which is a very dishonest way to talk about anyone. I bet you just need a “safe space” because you were offended/scared by something he said while in college. What you call “liberal bias” is Greenwald’s very reasoned analysis. You have not responded to it with anything remotely intelligent, because you likely can’t.
I’ve been saying for several weeks now I truly hope the Democrats run Ellison as the DNC chair as he would be the perfect fit. Most of the dedicated commenters on the intercept are blinded by ridiculous idealist notions of a post modern Eutopia. Fact is Ellison is a biggot and always has been. I mean this guy called for a separate country for blacks within America! Couple that with his documented inflammatory racist bigoted statements and you have a true clansman worthy candidate. Democrats continue their tone deafness and elitism by urging such a candidate to run I mean it only takes five minutes of basic research to see what a fraud this guy is. Please see attached article for other incriminating evidence.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2016/11/26/keith-ellison-once-proposed-making-a-separate-country-for-blacks/?client=safari
I’m not clicking a link to the Daily Caller. It’s likely I’m not alone in that. (Anything you think is truly compelling you are free to quote.)
It’s also unsurprising that someone who would approvingly offer such a link spews such false and hysterical garbage about Keith Ellison. The DNC is indeed “tone deaf” about many, many things, but one of them is decidedly not what you cite.
So are you really saying this biggot did not call for a separate country for black people as well as ridiculous amounts of reparation moneis to be paid? He also said it was OK for whites to stay in the south with blacks if they were peaceful! Could you imagine a white politician that was to the right and was evangelical saying such racist and bigoted things about blacks Muslims or other minorities? Could you imagine what you you would be saying right now? Please step outside of your progressive normalcy bias! I enjoy debating with my fellow Americans on the siite and just because your views are different than mine I appreciate them rather than ridicule them however when you have such an obvious biggot already in Congress with such radical views the truth must and will come out. Ellison even agreed with Bill Maher on his HBO show that he did not agree with the second amendment. You can cite sources that you may not like and inject your own biased falsehoods but the facts remain. The American people will have their voices heard on this just as they did in the presidential election. So I implore you once again please run a bigoted, racist with documented racial biases and slurs that’s opposes the Second Amendment and calls for a separate nation for black people in the United States and reparations to run for the DNC chair!
Much that I’d say in reply to your vacuous screed I set forth below in this sub-thread. The rest I’m not wasting my time on right now, as no reasonable and well-informed people would benefit from my explaining the obvious.
Oh Mona, all one has to do is to look at your past thoughtless, biased and mindless post’s to realize who the true unintelligent one is here. As I remember only a few weeks ago you were calling for all of your pseudo-intellectual pen pals to expatriate yourselfs to a safe space to collaborate with one another over your shared group thought and banal ideas because you feared true debate.
Let’s revisit:
“Hillfarmer is a member of the KKK!”
“Hillfarmer has an affinity for the KKK!”
“Hillfarmer has praise for the KKK”
…
That’s it that’s all you have? Another great example of the mindlessness that exists on this thread.
hahahah… yeah.. I’m not doing that either.
the link you are showing needs to be corrected
HERE IS THE BETTER LINK
amp/amp.dailycallercom/2016/11/26/keith-ellison-once-proposed-making-a-separate-country-for-blacks/
Calling for independence doesn’t necessarily make you bigoted or racist. I don’t agree with what Ellison said in his student days about an independent country for black people in the US, but why call someone bigoted or racist just because you disagree with them on racial issues? A big problem with Ellison’s proposal was that he wanted his new nation for black people to occupy a space where a majority of the people weren’t black. That’s highly undemocratic and wrong. Still, calls for independence are bound to happen when a group is treated as inferior by the majority in their current country, and it makes no sense to assume that they’re bigoted or racist. I’m interested in hearing what the fairer alternatives are.
The people posting above don’t know how to send a web link, but here is the correct link:
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/26/keith-ellison-once-proposed-making-a-separate-country-for-blacks/
It’s significant that Ellison and Israelis make the same mistake here. Ellison, in his student days, wanted blacks in America to have an independent country in a section of the US where blacks weren’t a majority. The founders of Israel wanted to have a Jewish state in Palestine west of the Jordan, a territory where Jews weren’t the majority. Both moves are undemocratic, even though Ellison aligned himself with the critics of Israel’s undemocratic rule. Those among the Palestinians who want to take back all of Palestine and make Jews into, at best, second-class citizens, are making the same mistake too. Fortunately there are lots of people in the world who can see through this hypocrisy, and I’m glad Ellison has moved on some.
I agree that it is highly undemocratic to impose a black homeland in an area where blacks are not the majority. I also agree that it is not racist to advocate for such an independent homeland. I think we should do it. We could even call it…um…. Liberia. LIBERIA! That’s the ticket!
Or is that racist? I’m so confused….
As long as we’re on the subject, let’s show more respect for our beloved Christian government (even if it is led by an alleged Muslim) and its policies towards our dear Israeli friends (at least until Jesus comes back and blows them all away). Blessed are the chosen feuds.
It doesn’t have anything to do with antisemitism or Judaism.
It is only about the illegal policies of a political party in Israel.
mainstreet Americans are being robbed by moneychangers who demand that we sell our children to them in the form of student loans with the perverted criminally extrotionist demand that they work for next to nothing or be enslaved for repayment. This is biblically EVIL.
Imagine how much worse the campaign by the Apartheid Defence League and its backers would be if Ellison were actually willing to be an enemy of Apartheid, rather than taking the appeasement route.
Something else to keep in mind, the era of ‘American Exceptionalism’ is coming to an end, and if the Chinese were to, in the not so distant future, decide to extend exemptions to the Geneva conventions, the antiWMD treaties, etc to, say, North Korea, as well as make it clear that international attempts to limit its military ‘adventurism’, and give it enough military clout to ‘occupy’ the ‘disputed territory’ of South Korea, American (and, indeed, the entire American axis) protests and claims that such a thing ‘violate international norms’, are ‘war crimes’, ‘human rights abuses’, and must be stopped are going to sound rather hollow, aren’t they.
The Uberzionistas can always be counted on to freak out over even those who are most harmless (to their cause) and reliably supportive of the status quo, should such a one even hint at some miniscule deviation from the official narrative.
It is quite obvious that the demoncrats and rethug establishment are far more Islamaphobic than Donald Trump,look at their rhetoric and actions,and Trump only called for better vetting and a moratorium of Muslim immigration in a time of Islamic terrorism,the height of probity,as the demoncrats and their traitor MSM love the terror results of divide and conquer .
Muslim citizens are not at risk,unless they support terror against American citizens,like demoncrats.
And it also is a conundrum that Muslim writers here support HRC over Trump,as she has caused as much misery for Muslims as the shrub,and promised more with her naked Israeli fealty.
estute.
Come on, Glenn.
I agree that much of the attacks on Ellison are unfair, and that his questioning of Israeli policies led to such unfair attacks, but this is a bit silly.
You can defend Ellison without whitewashing his past. He’s said some things (which he has since said he regrets) that were outright anti-Semitic, and he defended the Nation of Islam and said that it didn’t hate Jews (which, let’s face it, isn’t exactly true).
People make mistakes, admit those mistakes, and learn from them. Ellison has done that. But to act like those mistakes weren’t made in the first place is as manipulative, misleading, and smeary as those you’re writing this article to expose.
Once again, you’ve shown your hand.
This point is as banal as it is simply true, including historically. Any who wish to understand how Israel came to exist in Mandate Palestine, and U.S. policy toward it both before and after, should read John Judis’ excellent book, Genesis: Truman, American Jews, and the Origins of the Arab/Israeli Conflict, reviewed in the NYT here:
And so it would happen that — against his better judgment and that of his State Department — Harry Truman, fearing it would lead to WWIII, recognized the State of Israel in 1948; he declared that important states in the upcoming presidential election had Jewish voters and virtually no Arab ones.
Many of the repugnant antics vis-a-vis Ellison described in the above article are about preventing any Arabs or Muslims from now being positioned to have their concerns taken seriously by the powers that be. The Zionist monopoly on U.S. politicians is slipping, and the bigoted smear campaign against Ellison is part of the frantic Zionist response.
The Zionist monopoly on U.S. politicians is slipping, and the bigoted smear campaign against Ellison is part of the frantic Zionist response. Well said. Bigotry comes in all shapes and sizes and the freedom of religion and expression in America IS the transparency and sunlight source that is the remedy of bigotry for it gives rise to objection and whatever hate lies under that for the purpose of settling on common ground.
Will be very interesting to see if Barack signs that law. He already doesn’t trust the people or the American system seeing as how he didnt prosecute the 911ers in a criminal court.
Excellent analysis, as usual. Thank you. I don’t think the two state solution has any future. The world must deal with another apartheid state in fact and in deed. Keith Ellison would be excellent as DNP chair; he won’t be allowed by the party’s destructive elements as you well describe. Sanders capitulation was a mistake and he knows it now. Perhaps he can midwife a new third party. The voters would welcome it including Trumps forgotten whites when he finally falls into the gutter.
Sanders didn’t make a mistake! He delivered the flock in the counter revolution that was his candidacy. They circumvented the possibility of a third party upsurge using sanders to coral the sheeple and ultimately tell them to vote for Clinton.
Now he’s supporting the reinvention of the Democratic Party! What a joke and slap in the face!
There needs to be a truely good household name who steps forward with a plan to start an independent third party. Not green cause they too have been hijacked by the democrats in my opinion. We are truely F’d
I like The Citizens Party. Catchy name too and goes back to the Barry Commoner days.
Votecitizens.org
It’s a Crying Shame that ISIS (Israel State Illegitimate State) has a “Demonic Influence” over the most powerful country on the planet!
It’s nothing so wrong with people having “dual citizenship”, but it is INCREDIBLILY STUPID AND ASSININE to allow those who have “dual citizenship” to hold political office and make laws and policies that govern the lives of those majorities of US Citizens who DO NOT have dual citizenship! Their loyalty is duplicitous! Even the Bible says, “You cannot serve two masters, you will either love the one and hate the other!”
Zionist ( ISIS ) have their pimps (lobbyists and dual citizenship politicians, news & media mogels, Wall Street and Federal Reserve influence peddlers) pimping the US Government like a $2.00 hoe!
And I thought “pimping” was illegal throughout the World!
Pray for the End of the Demonic Influence! Amen to the Amen!
And the above is NOT anti-Semetic! It’s “anti-Stupid and anti-Pimping!”
Can something be stupid and still claim to be anti-stupid?
Anit-Stupid- Jesus- Pimping! or…wait Jesuspimpsstupidpeople?! God Damn that’s the answer? Wait, let’s leave, jesus judgement out of it!
Gil G haha right
Thanks Mr. Greenwald, once again, for providing clarity in the midst of mud (slinging.) The Dems are continuing to do a bang-up job of alienating plenty of Independent folks, like myself, who would potentially support them, if they could lean into the future toward policies worthy of support in the 21st century. In order to do this they would need to recognize that the “old guard” can’t get the job done and, as a matter of fact, the old guard is part of the problem. Case in point: the presidential election. Time for a Democratic party to be led by individuals, such as Keith Ellison, who have the foresight as well as conviction to speak to issues that keep this hubristic country mired in self-defeating habits. The oldster Dems are like the second side of the Trump supporters coin: they cling to a time and version of life that’s long gone. They*just*don’t*get*it.
I agree – thanks Glenn Greenwald for covering this story.
The Mainstream Corporate Media is making it extremely difficult to get a handle on everything and leaves very few reliable sources for the truth – Glenn Greenwald, Amy Goodman, Henry Giroux, Chris Hedges, Binney & Drake, etc.
I believe the US will be having an “Arab Spring” no later than the mid-term elections. Both parties are a mess and the public is vehemently divided 50-50. There is and will be common ground for groups like Standing Rock, Occupy, indebted college grads with no job, minimum wage workers, women who will lose their rights, blacks who have lost their rights etc.
This fellow is a great Muslim fellow with terrific ideas. I think he is going to get into big trouble with the Great Muhammad at the gates of Jannat unless he changes his name or uses a middle name like our friend Hussein here, as Muhammad may tell him he is reporting at the wrong garrison in the enemy’s camp.
There is a bright side. He may just manage to keep out of the Registry.
Real Americans are going to make sure a NAZI Germany-style or any other kind of registry is never created.
Bless your heart
It is one thing to debate Ellison’s positions and popularity or lack thereof. That is a completely separate discussion from whether or not he should run the DNC. Frankly NO sitting member of Congress should do so. This is not a part-time, tiny, no effort job. The fact that our elected Dem leaders think so is an insight into why Democrats have lost the leadership of dozens of states that should still be voting Dem. We need a full time strong POLITICAL strategist and leader – be he or she a former elected official, business or professional person; pink, purple or blue in color; properly secular no matter if or what religion they practice privately. They should have the ability to think beyond the identity politics that Dems depend on in lieu of ideas and policies. They should have the ability to develop and execute a 50 state strategy. They should have read and/or learned everything about how the GOP has taken control of so much of America over the last 30 years and have a strategy to compete for the hearts and minds of EVERY American. Keith Ellison does not seem to be THAT person and arguing about his positions as a member of Congress is like discussion whether or not the open heart surgeon we desperately need is a good cook or not. If the leaders of the Dem Party do not take our current situation seriously NOW, they can expect a revolt and a lot of primary challenges in 2018. No more bullshit about how demographics will win all and therefore Dems don’t have to think or work. We, the base, are just as ticked off as the GOP base. It’s time for elected Dems to figure that out if they want to keep their cushy jobs – which seems to have been the only thing on their minds for decades now.
Most certainly, the recent remarks by Saban and whatever traction they may have gained to deny Ellison the DNC chair are deplorable. Productive and compromising debate about Israel, it’s place in the region, and the two-state solution needs to happen, now more than ever. What’s even more disconcerting is that the influence of Saban (and the Democratic billionaire donor class) seems destined to only INCREASE, at least in the short run.
Donald J. Trump managed a fantastic magic trick of an election: by riding a ‘Populist Wave’, that was nothing more than shady showmanship disguised as populism, he’s effectively insulated himself from executing the vision upon which he won. Worse than that, he’s only emboldened the Power Elite (from either side of the political spectrum) to shout and weaponize their personal agendas in the name political progress and issue. A bad moon rising for both parties.
I’m not positive Keith Ellison is the best choice for DNC chair; but I agree with the article – the recent smear campaign against him is disgraceful.
The Democratic Party’s central reliance on billionaire funders like Saban is a key reason that debates over Israel policy are not permitted within the party. It’s why any attempt to raise such issues will prompt systematic campaigns of reputation destruction like the one we’re witnessing with Ellison.
Wait … what?
It’s the Democratic party that regularly engages in smear campaigns?
There’s a huge difference between a “smear campaign” (see Swift Boat Veterans for Truth or the more recent movie Clinton Cash for instances. Do you recall the history Citizen’s United perhaps?)
While calling Ellison (whom I admire) an anti-Semite isn’t a “smear campaign.” It’s a slander, definitely.
But a smear campaign?
I agree with the basic premise, that Israeli advocacy groups have their finger on the scales when it comes to their critics. So what is new or different about that? It is natural for nations to criticize politicians who don’t adopt the party line. China wasn’t too pleased when Trump called Taiwan the other day. Ukraine and Russia (and maybe every other country on earth) hire public relations firms to represent their interests. The president elect even colluded with Russia to get elected!
So you single out the Jewish lobby’s slander of Keith Ellison as an example of a smear campaign?? Sure. A swarm of mosquitoes is the same as a shotgun blast in the face, right?
Further, what is with these regular attacks upon the Democrats who’ve recently lost power. Their body still hangs from the gallows and instead of a corpse you see a piñata.
Sure, Israel and Israelis have a huge influence in US politics. The sitting Israeli prime minister even gave a speech to the US Congress at the invitation of the Republicans. Israeli influence isn’t news. No more so than Saudi influence or the active Russian involvement in the US campaign.
On a deeper level, I think the slanders of Ellison have a lot more to do with the Republicans who are now in an awkward situation with their newly polished turd about to take control. They’ve adopted the Islam is the new Communism baby. The very reasonable and mainstream Ellison undercuts their ferocious xenophobia.
Better to portray Ellison as an anti-Semite than as an ordinary Muslim. He’s political history if the anti-semite narrative prevails. Slandering Ellison is like removing the hurdles before the race. He isn’t a sufficient threat to warrant a smear campaign.
Your post is a deflection. People who are considered dangerously sympathetic to the Palestinians will be labeled as antisemites and this happens in both parties. Clinton pandered to Aipac and to Saban. This is why even someone who favors a two state solution will be called an antisemite. Trying to push this as something that can be blamed ultimately on the Republicans is laughable.
You are right that the Saudis also have huge influence — in both parties. Ask the people of Yemen. But that in no way should deflect from the point Glenn is making here.
Smear (verb): damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander. “someone was trying to smear her by faking letters”
synonyms: sully, tarnish, blacken, drag through the mud, taint, damage, defame, discredit, malign, slander, libel, slur
Slander (noun): the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person’s reputation. “he is suing the TV network for slander”
Slander (verb): make false and damaging statements about (someone).
“they were accused of slandering the head of state”
synonyms: defame (someone’s character), blacken someone’s name, tell lies about, speak ill/evil of, sully someone’s reputation, libel, smear, cast aspersions on, spread scandal about, besmirch, tarnish, taint
I neglected to finish my thought. (Actually since TI lacks a proper edit function, I neglected to proofread my own post. My bad.)
I would have reposted to correct my sloppiness if I had thought my meaning unclear.
Since my meaning is apparently unclear to you, let me first repost my error and then finish my thought.
This should read:
There’s a huge difference between a “smear campaign” and a simple series of slanders. (see Swift Boat Veterans for Truth or the more recent movie Clinton Cash for instances. Do you recall the nasty history of Citizen’s United perhaps?)
Thank you for pointing out the similarity of the words “smear” and “slander.” Certainly a stark difference between a “stickler” and a “quibbler” also exists. Which applies best here?
Americans should know the difference between a “smear campaign” and a simple series of slanders and criticisms.
One difference is coherence. A slander is much like an adjective used consistently to modify a specific noun — the evil Adolf Hitler, the sexy Marilyn Monroe, the idiotic Donald Trump. Sure, many people might think that Hitler is not evil, that Marilyn Monroe isn’t sexy and that Donald Trump is just as smart as Mr. Ed. Generally we (humans) like to show our opinions as objective truth.
This allows us to say, “I’m not judging the person — Hitler, Monroe, Trump — I’m describing the person.” This is the point of a slander. It is to turn an opinion into a fact. It is usually done without much thought or much effort.
A smear campaign is also different because it is calculated and designed to disqualify a person (or ideology) within a specific context.
Let me illustrate.
When Donald Trump refers to Hillary Clinton as “crooked” Hillary, he slanders her. When he uses material gathered by the Russians that show questionable behavior on her advisers’ part , it turns from a mere slander into a smear campaign. Slanders are isolated and often casual; smear campaigns are coordinated and calculated.
The former is classed as unkind and/or unfair; the latter is classed as propaganda.
Here is an example in poplar political fiction of propaganda — akin to a smear campaign and far different from mere slander
Does this help you see the difference between, say, a speech in which Chris Christie prosecutes Hillary Clinton and provokes cries of “lock her up” from the assembled crowd (conveniently displayed on your “telescreen”) and a seemingly casual reference — an apparent slander — to “crooked Hillary”. Do you see how this casual appearing slander actually betrays a larger, more concerted and calculated effort to disqualify a political opponent?
A few references to Ellison as anti-semitic do not constitute a propaganda effort — a “smear campaign”. We’ll have to wait for the movie (or telescreen drama) of a fictional US Congressman named Kevin Edwards working with ISIS to smuggle a dirty bomb into New York before it becomes a smear campaign of the sort Greenwald decries.
Sure, slanders are the building blocks of propaganda, but we need (say) a Zero Dark Thirty to remind us of the contextual righteousness of Islamophobia as preached by Trump and the rest of his Republican Party members.
Somebody pays for these smear campaigns and in this case, it’s not the CIA.”
Bernie Sanders did leave much of a legacy but he did leave one important thing……we do not need the money of the special interest. What is needed is a coherent message and some one with the courage to see it through. The neoliberals’ greatest fear was a message they did not control. They needed a beauty contest where they controlled candidates whereas heads they win, tails they win.
I love that he didn’t really hate jews, just white people with money. Which is an awesome spin on crazy and racist.
What exactly has Ellison done that earns this kind of delusion?
Did you actually read any of the stuff he wrote? Literally insane. Let’s just set aside the pure evil of what he wrote and just think about how fucking nuts it is. Really fucking nuts.
“Righteous opposition”? You can’t possibly be serious. Again, why Ellison? This is a hill to die on? Sometimes I think lawyers throw out arguments forgetting that they now represent themselves.
You said he “long-ago-renounced”. How do you renounce cult crazy? Did he get deprogrammed? Did he write a huge tell all exposing the fraud, evil and complete crazy that is the Nation of Islam? I’m being serious.
Creating the Other’s Other: Reflexive tribalism will always try to defend the indefensible–and we keep making the world more evil in the process.
Said again…
The duality relentlessly pulls both poles toward evil.
It’s astonishing and greatly disappointing to see you, LNC, spewing such vile and inane garbage. Not a thing you spit out: 1. Undermines any of the facts or reasoning in Glenn’s piece, or 2. Presents independent, fact-based reasons in support of Ellison’s being “crazy and racist.”
This is particular is ignorant and just plain stupid:
Human beings leave religions and/or denominations ALL THE TIME. Ranting about “cults” is unhelpful; anti-cult hysteria is based on a majority’s opposition to new religions (or old ones with small numbers). The consequences of such irrationality and moral panics have often included murder of adherents of the despised religious group.
For shame.
Did you actually read what Ellison wrote?
Are you going to try and defend it on any level or are you going to just hiss “shame” at me because I take issue with his literally insane beliefs about god and race, and more importantly disagreed with Glenn in the process.
So any belief and philosophy is A OK with you as long as you call it religion because of some “anti-cult hysteria” hysteria that you just made up. The Klan will be happy with your logic.
The Nation of Islam is an insane UFO cult. Are you just confused because it has the word “islam” in it.
It that really all this is about?
Are you seriously unaware of the long and inglorious history of “anti-cult hysteria” in the United States? The lynching of Joseph Smith ( “murdered along with his brother Hyrum when an anti-Mormon mob breaks into a jail where they are being held in Carthage, Illinois”), the burning of a convent, and in my lifetime the violent and illegal behavior of so-called “deprogrammers?”
The NoI is another in a long history of American new religious movements. As with several such new religions, it was informed by the treatment of a minority group.
Keith Ellison, when he was very young, bought into some of the NoI beliefs, but also repudiated the more extreme doctrines on white people. Malcolm X would also, before he was assassinated by the NoI, repudiate that extreme version. Both men, as African Americans, were drawn to a new religion that gave support against their plight in this country.
Really, LNC, I remain astonished that you would be so ignorant and uncritical in your understanding of such human phenomena.
Mona,
If I thought your arguments were even one percent sincere I would just declare myself a religion, and win that way.
I’m sorry but there really are certain beliefs that deserve to be called out. Like the Klan, I don’t want the nation of ufo cult to have any more member than they already do. I don’t want them around long enough to have their hateful words turn into metaphor.
Sorry, just not going to cooperate.
If you think you have to support and de-marginalize insane race cultists because of Joseph Smith–and that really makes sense to you as an argument and a philosophy. Do it up.
I love that you are more offended by the word “cult” than an actual insane UFO cult that preaches racial hatred and division.
Now we get to the issue. You actually like the nation of islam.
Yeah, I’d be slow on the draw to admit that one too.
Clearly I have been mistaken in believing you to be a fellow civil libertarian. Such ill-informed and frankly stupid spewings about the human phenomenon of religion, and new ones, is worthy of Alex Jones or Glenn Beck, but not long-time readers of Glenn Greenwald.
You clearly know utterly nothing about the civil libertarian fight for religious liberty in the United States, including and especially where so-called “cults” are concerned. It’s sufficient for you to label beliefs as “insane” or such. (As an atheist and empiricist, I, of course, reject the supernatural and/or extraordinary claims of all these religions. But that is not the point here.)
So calling the nation of islam an insane “religion” that preaches racial division and hatred–is ok.
But calling the nation of islam an insane “cult” that preaches racial division and hatred–means I am Glenn Beck?
So for you, the word “cult” is inherently bigoted against religion.
I admit I don’t really follow the language police closely so this might be new thing, but can you give me the logic and argument behind this.
Is the idea that once I declare my words to be the message of god–that you have to see to me as honest and sincere in my pronouncement. That implying that my words my not actually be the words of God (kneel before him) is somehow bigoted?
I would like a real and serious explanation on why the word “cult” is inherently bigoted.
What is supposed to be so bad about the word “cult” except that a bunch of evil idiots yelled it when they killed people? Why are you trying to pin that crap on me.
Isn’t that the same argument that bigots use against Islam when self identified Muslims kill people. (Am I supposed to be outraged that you aren’t a real civil libertarian now?)
Jesus on a crutch, this has zero to do with so-called “language policing” and everything to do with a (classically) liberal understanding of social and political tolerance and religious liberty. As well as with a sociological grasp of religious movements and an understanding of human psychology vis-a-vis religious conversion and belief.
The “term “cult” has academic meaning, but is also and commonly used as a pejorative for a (usually new) “religious movement I don’t like.” Pervasive adoption and illiberal acceptance of using the word in this manner has had severe political consequences.
What I am explaining here is religious studies 101. Not “policing” or any of your other intellectually unsophisticated nonsense.
I haven’t read what Ellison wrote. But why is what someone wrote in his youth a determinant on what they believe today? From what I understand Ellison is no longer part of the Nation of Islam. Robert Byrd endorsed Obama over Hillary in 2008. Would you also be unkind to Byrd, just because he was in the KKK in his youth?
Personally, as a non-White person, I think Byrd proved to be among the better American Senators.
I do agree with one of your points, that there’s no need to write about Ellison in a manner that venerates him. He’s just another run of the mill Democrat, maybe just a bit better. But all hes’ doing now is trying to figure out which way to prostrate himself so the masters can knight him.
@AtheistInChief,
I said before that If I had to defend my past positions, I would resign for moral reasons and then testify for the prosecution. So I am a big proponent of forgiveness, learning and time.
But there are certain beliefs that require a little more than saying you only now go to church on the holidays–and writing literally insane things about god and race just happens to be one of my sticking points.
If he wrote a blistering critique of the nation of islam, I would love to read it. We can learn so much (including empathy) from an insider’s expose. But issuing a political press release saying you no longer go to church there anymore doesn’t impress me.
@-Mona-
I’m sorry if the words “language police” have you to lurching from one outrage to the next conveniently allowing you to not answer very clear questions. I officially retract the words “language police.”
Can I now get a clear answer to why “cult” is an inherently bigoted word–besides dismissively waving around the term “Religious Studies 101″. Since this is so obvious and “101” to you and everyone in academia, the copy and paste work needed to bring your argument here to the masses should be super easy.
I await you not getting outraged enough to actually answer my question.
In the meantime, I going to go ahead and declare myself a religion and say that God told me that there is one True Religion, Thelastnamechosenism (All hail his power and glory), and a bunch False religions and God says it is perfectly fine to call the false religions “cults”. Not only does God (The one and only true God) tell us to call false religions “cults”, but frankly you get tokens in heaven for every time you said the word “cult” in real life that you can redeem for super cool prizes. So rack um up.
Mona, are you going to apply your breathless drama of condemnation to people that say I’m going to Hell? How about this–you can call me a white devil who will burn in UFO hell, and I will agree to call ALL religions cults. That sounds fair.
Don’t forget to get those tax breaks, and ask for donations to help spread the reverent news,( you can try to repay your student loans with them! )Yes, that’s the American way alright! I believe I want to declare a new religion too. First I need an idol, Kurt Vonnegut is my chosen representation of all that is good….Bokononism
Religion is evil, especially Christianity and Islam. Like everything else, there are exceptions, but they are just that. And the worst of Christianity is Mormonism, which promotes 1) overpopulating the Earth with large families; 2) mistreating women by allowing men to have multiple wives (now illegal, bu some Mormons still do it); 3) anti-environmental attitudes, such as cattle grazing and mining; and 4) kidnapping Native American children and brainwashing them in Mormon schools (this actually happened to several Native American friends of mine).
Therefore, the one thing I’m proud of my native state of Illinois for is chasing the damn Mormons out at gunpoint. They may have done it for the wrong reasons, but that’s better than not doing it at all.
“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder ‘why, why, why?’
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”
Cat’s Cradle- Kurt Vonnegut
The laughable yet dangerous taboo in American politics that bars American citizens from criticizing a foreign country and criminalizing #freespeech of 350 million Americans to please a country, Apartheid Israel, of 7 million. Unheard of!
This bullshit will stop on a dime if we got rid of the traitors in government and instead stopped all foreign aid to this Middle Eastern pariah and made them obey and not bite the hand that feeds them and protects them!
“Once you label me, you negate me.”
AIPAC owns congress and should have to register as a foreign agent.
Trump said our allies would have to pay their share of defense costs.
Apparently that won’t apply to Israel.
Being an America Firster is now apparently anti-semitic.
Maybe Trump wants Israel to do its fair share of fighting and dying. Boots on the ground.
I’m curious, has trump said anything about israel?
Did Trump say he would not make them pay their fair share,or is that speculation?
Trump owes zion absolutely nothing,and if he is the man I think he is,he won’t accept any garbage from the refuse collectors.
We will see.
I hope this observation is taken to heart by those who propose to resurrect the Democratic Party:
“The Democratic Party’s central reliance on billionaire funders like Saban is a key reason that debates over Israel policy are not permitted within the party. “
The Democratic Party leadership’s deference to policy directed by billionaire Democrat elitists is central to the Party’s loss of grassroots support. The Party has generated a cognitive distortion that leads to widespread detachment with voters around policy ideas like Universal Health Care or Palastian rights – where common sense positions that are logically sensible don’t align with Party policy orientations. This was one of the key reasons for Clinton’s aura of inauthenticity as compared to Sanders enormous perceived authenticity. Clinton tried to give lip service to the basic human ideals that voters felt made sense while clinging to nuanced distortions directed by her elitist donors.
The one thing the Democratic Party must do is to clearly and unequivocally prioritize the voice of the grassroots electorate over that of the party elite.
Excellent and spot on comment, thanks.
There are 8 million US expats living abroad; We do receive any money from the US.
Corr: ….DO NOT receive…..
They will not learn. There’s a hypocrisy to American liberals that’s too easily exposed; demanding capitalism with a clean conscience.