There are some good reasons to believe Russians had something to do with the breaches into email accounts belonging to members of the Democratic party, which proved varyingly embarrassing or disruptive for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. But “good” doesn’t necessarily mean good enough to indict Russia’s head of state for sabotaging our democracy.
There’s a lot of evidence from the attack on the table, mostly detailing how the hack was perpetrated, and possibly the language of the perpetrators. It certainly remains plausible that Russians hacked the DNC, and remains possible that Russia itself ordered it. But the refrain of Russian attribution has been repeated so regularly and so emphatically that it’s become easy to forget that no one has ever truly proven the claim. There is strong evidence indicating that Democratic email accounts were breached via phishing messages, and that specific malware was spread across DNC computers. There’s even evidence that the attackers are the same group that’s been spotted attacking other targets in the past. But again: No one has actually proven that group is the Russian government (or works for it). This remains the enormous inductive leap that’s not been reckoned with, and Americans deserve better.
We should also bear in mind that private security firm CrowdStrike’s frequently cited findings of Russian responsibility were essentially paid for by the DNC, which contracted its services in June. It’s highly unusual for evidence of a crime to be assembled on the victim’s dime. If we’re going to blame the Russian government for disrupting our presidential election — easily construed as an act of war — we need to be damn sure of every single shred of evidence. Guesswork and assumption could be disastrous.
The gist of the Case Against Russia goes like this: The person or people who infiltrated the DNC’s email system and the account of John Podesta left behind clues of varying technical specificity indicating they have some connection to Russia, or at least speak Russian. Guccifer 2.0, the entity that originally distributed hacked materials from the Democratic party, is a deeply suspicious figure who has made statements and decisions that indicate some Russian connection. The website DCLeaks, which began publishing a great number of DNC emails, has some apparent ties to Guccifer and possibly Russia. And then there’s WikiLeaks, which after a long, sad slide into paranoia, conspiracy theorizing, and general internet toxicity has made no attempt to mask its affection for Vladimir Putin and its crazed contempt for Hillary Clinton. (Julian Assange has been stuck indoors for a very, very long time.) If you look at all of this and sort of squint, it looks quite strong indeed, an insurmountable heap of circumstantial evidence too great in volume to dismiss as just circumstantial or mere coincidence.
But look more closely at the above and you can’t help but notice all of the qualifying words: Possibly, appears, connects, indicates. It’s impossible (or at least dishonest) to present the evidence for Russian responsibility for hacking the Democrats without using language like this. The question, then, is this: Do we want to make major foreign policy decisions with a belligerent nuclear power based on suggestions alone, no matter how strong?
So far, all of the evidence pointing to Russia’s involvement in the Democratic hacks (DNC, DCCC, Podesta, et al.) comes from either private security firms (like CrowdStrike or FireEye) who sell cyber-defense services to other companies, or independent researchers, some with university affiliations and serious credentials, and some who are basically just Guys on Twitter. Although some of these private firms groups had proprietary access to DNC computers or files from them, much of the evidence has been drawn from publicly available data like the hacked emails and documents.
Some of the malware found on DNC computers is believed to be the same as that used by two hacking groups believed to be Russian intelligence units, codenamed APT (Advanced Persistent Threat) 28/Fancy Bear and APT 29/Cozy Bear by industry researchers who track them.
Viewed as a whole, the above evidence looks strong, and maybe even damning. But view each piece on its own, and it’s hard to feel impressed.
For one, a lot of the so-called evidence above is no such thing. CrowdStrike, whose claims of Russian responsibility are perhaps most influential throughout the media, says APT 28/Fancy Bear “is known for its technique of registering domains that closely resemble domains of legitimate organizations they plan to target.” But this isn’t a Russian technique any more than using a computer is a Russian technique — misspelled domains are a cornerstone of phishing attacks all over the world. Is Yandex — the Russian equivalent of Google — some sort of giveaway? Anyone who claimed a hacker must be a CIA agent because they used a Gmail account would be laughed off the internet. We must also acknowledge that just because Guccifer 2.0 pretended to be Romanian, we can’t conclude he works for the Russian government — it just makes him a liar.
Next, consider the fact that CrowdStrike describes APT 28 and 29 like this:
Their tradecraft is superb, operational security second to none and the extensive usage of “living-off-the-land” techniques enables them to easily bypass many security solutions they encounter. In particular, we identified advanced methods consistent with nation-state level capabilities including deliberate targeting and “access management” tradecraft — both groups were constantly going back into the environment to change out their implants, modify persistent methods, move to new Command & Control channels and perform other tasks to try to stay ahead of being detected.
Compare that description to CrowdStrike’s claim it was able to finger APT 28 and 29, described above as digital spies par excellence, because they were so incredibly sloppy. Would a group whose “tradecraft is superb” with “operational security second to none” really leave behind the name of a Soviet spy chief imprinted on a document it sent to American journalists? Would these groups really be dumb enough to leave cyrillic comments on these documents? Would these groups that “constantly [go] back into the environment to change out their implants, modify persistent methods, move to new Command & Control channels” get caught because they precisely didn’t make sure not to use IP addresses they’d been associated before? It’s very hard to buy the argument that the Democrats were hacked by one of the most sophisticated, diabolical foreign intelligence services in history, and that we know this because they screwed up over and over again.
But how do we even know these oddly named groups are Russian? CrowdStrike co-founder Dmitri Alperovitch himself describes APT 28 as a “Russian-based threat actor” whose modus operandi “closely mirrors the strategic interests of the Russian government” and “may indicate affiliation [Russia’s] Main Intelligence Department or GRU, Russia’s premier military intelligence service.” Security firm SecureWorks issued a report blaming Russia with “moderate confidence.” What constitutes moderate confidence? SecureWorks said it adopted the “grading system published by the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence to indicate confidence in their assessments. … Moderate confidence generally means that the information is credibly sourced and plausible but not of sufficient quality or corroborated sufficiently to warrant a higher level of confidence.” All of this amounts to a very educated guess, at best.
Even the claim that APT 28/Fancy Bear itself is a group working for the Kremlin is speculative, a fact that’s been completely erased from this year’s discourse. In its 2014 reveal of the group, the high-profile security firm FireEye couldn’t even blame Russia without a question mark in the headline: “APT28: A Window into Russia’s Cyber Espionage Operations?” The blog post itself is remarkably similar to arguments about the DNC hack: technical but still largely speculative, presenting evidence the company “[believes] indicate a government sponsor based in Moscow.” Believe! Indicate! We should know already this is no smoking gun. FireEye’s argument that the malware used by APT 28 is connected to the Russian government is based on the belief that its “developers are Russian language speakers operating during business hours that are consistent with the time zone of Russia’s major cities.”
As security researcher Jeffrey Carr pointed out in June, FireEye’s 2014 report on APT 28 is questionable from the start:
To my surprise, the report’s authors declared that they deliberately excluded evidence that didn’t support their judgment that the Russian government was responsible for APT28’s activities:
“APT28 has targeted a variety of organizations that fall outside of the three themes we highlighted above. However, we are not profiling all of APT28’s targets with the same detail because they are not particularly indicative of a specific sponsor’s interests.” (emphasis added)
That is the very definition of confirmation bias. Had FireEye published a detailed picture of APT28’s activities including all of their known targets, other theories regarding this group could have emerged; for example, that the malware developers and the operators of that malware were not the same or even necessarily affiliated.
The notion that APT 28 has a narrow focus on American political targets is undermined in another SecureWorks paper, which shows that the hackers have a wide variety of interests: 10 percent of their targets are NGOs, 22 percent are journalists, 4 percent are aerospace researchers, and 8 percent are “government supply chain.” SecureWorks says that only 8 percent of APT 28/Fancy Bear’s targets are “government personnel” of any nationality — hardly the focused agenda described by CrowdStrike.
Truly, the argument that “Guccifer 2.0″ is a Kremlin agent or that GRU breached John Podesta’s email only works if you presume that APT 28/Fancy Bear is a unit of the Russian government, a fact that has never been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. According to Carr, “it’s an old assumption going back years to when any attack against a non-financial target was attributed to a state actor.” Without that premise, all we can truly conclude is that some email accounts at the DNC et al. appear to have been broken into by someone, and perhaps they speak Russian. Left ignored is the mammoth difference between Russians and Russia.
Security researcher Claudio Guarnieri put it this way:
[Private security firms] can’t produce anything conclusive. What they produce is speculative attribution that is pretty common to make in the threat research field. I do that same speculative attribution myself, but it is just circumstantial. At the very best it can only prove that the actor that perpetrated the attack is very likely located in Russia. As for government involvement, it can only speculate that it is plausible because of context and political motivations, as well as technical connections with previous (or following attacks) that appear to be perpetrated by the same group and that corroborate the analysis that it is a Russian state-sponsored actor (for example, hacking of institutions of other countries Russia has some geopolitical interests in).
Finally, one can’t be reminded enough that all of this evidence comes from private companies with a direct financial interest in making the internet seem as scary as possible, just as Lysol depends on making you believe your kitchen is crawling with E. Coli.
In October, the Department of Homeland Security and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a joint statement blaming the Russian government for hacking the DNC. In it, they state their attribution plainly:
The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process.
What’s missing is any evidence at all. If this federal confidence is based on evidence that’s being withheld from the public for any reason, that’s one thing — secrecy is their game. But if the U.S. Intelligence Community is asking the American electorate to believe them, to accept as true their claim that our most important civic institution was compromised by a longtime geopolitical nemesis, we need them to show us why.
The same goes for the CIA, which is now squaring off directly against Trump, claiming (through leaks to the Washington Post and New York Times) that the Russian government conducted the hacks for the express purpose of helping defeat Clinton. Days later, Senator John McCain agreed with the assessment, deeming it “another form of warfare.” Again, it’s completely possible (and probable, really) that the CIA possesses hard evidence that could establish Russian attribution — it’s their job to have such evidence, and often to keep it secret.
But what we’re presented with isn’t just the idea that these hacks happened, and that someone is responsible, and, well, I guess it’s just a shame. Our lawmakers and intelligence agencies are asking us to react to an attack that is almost military in nature — this is, we’re being told, “warfare.” When a foreign government conducts (or supports) an act of warfare against another country, it’s entirely possible that there will be an equal response. What we’re looking at now is the distinct possibility that the United States will consider military retaliation (digital or otherwise) against Russia, based on nothing but private sector consultants and secret intelligence agency notes. If you care about the country enough to be angry at the prospect of election-meddling, you should be terrified of the prospect of military tensions with Russia based on hidden evidence. You need not look too far back in recent history to find an example of when wrongly blaming a foreign government for sponsoring an attack on the U.S. has tremendously backfired.
It must be stated plainly: The U.S. intelligence community must make its evidence against Russia public if they want us to believe their claims. The integrity of our presidential elections is vital to the country’s survival; blind trust in the CIA is not. A governmental disclosure like this is also not entirely without precedent: In 2014, the Department of Justice produced a 56-page indictment detailing their exact evidence against a team of Chinese hackers working for the People’s Liberation Army, accused of stealing American trade secrets; each member was accused by name. The 2014 trade secret theft was a crime of much lower magnitude than election meddling, but what the DOJ furnished is what we should demand today from our country’s spies.
If the CIA does show its hand, we should demand to see the evidence that matters (which, according to Edward Snowden, the government probably has, if it exists). I asked Jeffrey Carr what he would consider undeniable evidence of Russian governmental involvement: “Captured communications between a Russian government employee and the hackers,” adding that attribution “should solely be handled by government agencies because they have the legal authorization to do what it takes to get hard evidence.”
Claudio Guarnieri concurred:
All in all, technical circumstantial attribution is acceptable only so far as it is to explain an attack. It most definitely isn’t for the political repercussions that we’re observing now. For that, only documental evidence that is verifiable or intercepts of Russian officials would be convincing enough, I suspect.
Given that the U.S. routinely attempts to intercept the communications of heads of state around the world, it’s not impossible that the CIA or the NSA has exactly this kind of proof. Granted, these intelligence agencies will be loath to reveal any evidence that could compromise the method they used to gather it. But in times of extraordinary risk, with two enormous military powers placed in direct conflict over national sovereignty, we need an extraordinary disclosure. The stakes are simply too high to take anyone’s word for it.
Isn’t it possible there are more holes than one? Could an inside leak as stipulated by Julian Assange and a phishing code drop both have compromised the DNC and Podesta?
It seems highly possible given what I have read about the DNC’s less than stellar reaction to the phishing attack. So, what if noise about Russian hacking is masking the real source that fed WikiLeaks?
And then there is the apparent total lack of security for at least some initial period for the infamous HRC server. Gobsmackery indeed.
CrowdStrike is a private (so far) corporation devoted to a) finding and b) combating ‘hacking activities’ that could be damaging to a corporate or government client. They sell their ‘patented’ version of ‘security’.
They have a reputation for ‘uncovering’ the Chinese hacking of US corporations a few year back – even identifying the building in Beijing they claimed was inhabited by Chinese hackers – 60 Minutes sent a crew, and found nothing. They discovered that the Bundestag computers had been hacked ‘by Russians’ – the same Russian apparently who have now hacked the DNC and stolen the latest US election.
CrowdStrike is predicting they’re going to try to steal the upcoming German election as well. Watch for that ‘evidence’.
While one would hope they’re not in the same class as computer malware fighters who first infect your system and then offer to remove the infection for a price, they are no doubt , like other such security software vendors – very able to detect a number of ‘problems’, which they can address if you buy their product.
The big difference is Crowd strike doesn’t charge $79.99 a year with coverage for 5 computers. It’s a multi-million (Billion?) dollar industry. And like many malware fighters, you only find out that the defense has been ineffective after the damage has been done.
The intelligence statement itself seems precisely worded to insinuate without actually saying anything.
It can basically be rewritten as:
1. Russian government recently comprised some emails. [probably they have evidence of some emails somewhere. if it was the actual DNC emails, then why not say that in this sentence]
2. The specific DNC hack is the sort of thing the Russian government might do. [mostly meaningless]
3. This hack was intended to interfere with the election. [obvious]
This statement very clearly does *not* say that the Russian government tried to interfere with the election. But it looks like it does. Sneaky.
Need a good laugh? Louise Mensch thinks she understands Spanish now and claims to have discovered a secret plot between Snowden and Russia prior to the release of the documents:
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/812011711553294336
LOL
Is this article a parody?
I am honestly all for making sure to have the right answers, or at least enough to make common sense conclusions, but this article at times reads like farce.
“Viewed as a whole, the above evidence looks strong, and maybe even damning. But view each piece on its own, and it’s hard to feel impressed.”
That’s pretty much the exact opposite of how you would want to look at evidence. Small parts add up. You do a fair job of explaining your doubt later, so maybe that is just poorly worded and written, but my God. Really?
Additionally, while you go to strong lengths to mention that this study is about public information and releases, as well as public reports, the desire to have issues like this completely laid out so soon publicly is insane. (Yes, so is unilaterally writing off any future investigating, due to “it being solved already”) In a case like this, the proof is not just laid out like that, and it shouldn’t be. This has the chance of being a significant event (spoiler: it won’t, though.) , so just throwing out all the evidence into a public domain is not what should be happening right now. The funny part is that even the information that has been released has done enough to assure that they don’t get caught in the future. Sure you discuss how some parts of the evidence rely on tactics they did before and have now done again. Thank you for letting them know exactly what went wrong.
All in all, while I support taking your time in this investigation, and neither side jumping to conclusions (Trump declaring he had no reason to believe Russia was involved is as stupid as Democrats insisting it’s a closed issue and Russia is absolutely to blame), this article is a farce.
I don’t know. Maybe this is just my fault, and my inability to not get past “Viewed as a whole, the above evidence looks strong, and maybe even damning. But view each piece on its own, and it’s hard to feel impressed.”
So, based on what you know now – is there enough evidence to prove Russia did it?
but you fail to refute any of the authors claims. and evidence is supposed to be looked at piece by piece actually. havent you seen csi? whats farcical is your logic and the strength of your grip on the nut sack of the dnc.
It could e a Dick Clarke creation. No not the dead bandstand guy, the former head of US super-duper, top secret, intelligence pre-911 – Richard Clarke the go-to national security guy we all believe. The one who’s really on ‘our’ side.
the “russia did it” scam started here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qseVUcy7Wto
watch from time maker 11:50
abt 2 minutes
it’s all there
march 25 1968
This article, like so many on this subject, assumes as a given that the DNC/Podesta emails were acquired through “hacking.” That has NOT been proved. Julian Assange, former UK ambassador Craig Murray, and former NSA staffer William Binney have all emphatically stated that WikiLeaks obtained these emails as a result of a LEAK by someone inside either the DNC or the US intelligence community. Someone, including the Russians or their proxies, may have “hacked” the DNC, but should not be conflated with the leak that enabled WikiLeaks to reveal the DNC emails. Furthermore, evidence needs to be presented of the products of that non-WikiLeaks-related hacking event being disseminated by the corrupt US corporate media and its having had a negative effect on Clinton’s campaign.
This whole “Putin did it” disinformation campaign stinks to high heaven. Everybody, including President Obama, should stop talking about it as if it were a proven fact. It isn’t. In fact, it looks totally bogus and just keeps looking more so every day.
The DNC actually *hires* people to build and operate their email system? So given what we know, why did this system even allow HTML mail? Many high value targets only allow text. And why aren’t top officers within the DNC using PGP? Is this not a reasonable expectation? Why not?
Taken in it’s totality, it’s hard to understand the Dems outrage….even for someone like myself who believes all hackers should be killed. The Dems certainly showed no indignation when “our” people were doing the same to others?
So a pox on their house and Obama. Karma is a bitch.
The key is in the murder of Seth Rich
dig into that and everything else should be revealed and make sense
“In 2014, the Department of Justice produced a 56-page indictment detailing their exact evidence against a team of Chinese hackers working for the People’s Liberation Army, accused of stealing American trade secrets; each member was accused by name. The 2014 trade secret theft was a crime of much lower magnitude than election meddling”.
That was easy.
You mean the “Chinese thieves” actually signed their own names? Ridiculous. As with the “Russian hack”, if a state-sponsored intrusion was committed, there would no traces or at least traces pointing to another actor. Foreign hackers aren’t as dumb as Americans.
Opperative word, PUBLIC evidence.
Obviously the CIA would never divulge all it’s evidence publicly. Obvious, right?
According to al-Jazeera, the Turkish investigation into the assassination of the Russian Ambassador is focusing on the gunman’s ties to the Gulen movement. That’s an interesting twist. The gunman shouted “Remember Aleppo, Remember Aleppo” and “God is Great” in Arabic after killing Karlov. That is an obvious reference to the bombing campaign by the Assad regime and the Russian military in Eastern Aleppo. How is that related to the Gulen movement? The Turkish government supported the rebels in Syria and worked to remove Assad from power (certainly a noble goal). More recently, Erdogan has cooperated with the Russians and is bombing ISIS. This seems to be a fairly easy murder to explain.
Erdogan has used the attempted coup in Turkey to essentially marginalize any political opposition in Turkey. Erdogan might be putting more pressure on the US to extradite Gulen to Turkey. At the very least, he is apparently using the assassination to bolster his crack-down on the opposition still further. The Gulen movement is listed as a terrorist organization in Turkey.
It’s not that hard to understand. Just like in the US everything is Putin’s fault, in Turkey everything is Gulen’s fault.
You couldn’t resist…….
It better be Gulen than the Kurds. Otherwise Russia and Syria have an important bargaining chip…
True enough. The Kurds really don’t want to provoke Putin.
According to the logic put forth by Rachel Maddow on MSNBC, the palestinians will be seeking retribution against the genociders who are and have been murdering them. Appears that the zionistas would have a problem for what, centuries? If that is true, is it not the case then that the zionistas are going to kill every last palestinian to prevent that?
If there was any doubt about how succesful Putin’s info ops campaign has been, here’s the utterly surreal sight of Glenn Greenwald defending Russia on Fox News:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5254547642001/
and here is the evidence source of how Russia Did It !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qseVUcy7Wto
MARKER 11:50
g’nite dick.
Do you have a rebuttal of anything he said in the interview, or are we supposed to be impressed with your conspiracy theory?
SecureWorks says that only 8 percent of APT 28/Fancy Bear’s targets are “government personnel” of any nationality
You seem to ignore your own link. From the very same graph, 41% of APT 28/Fancy Bear’s targets are current or former military personnel. Which would means 49% percent of their operations are against foreign governments.
Assange’s views of Ukraine are predictable (according to the New York Times):
“………Mr. Assange has also taken a decidedly pro-Russian view of hostilities in Ukraine, where the Obama administration has accused Mr. Putin of supporting the separatists. The United States, Mr. Assange told an Argentine newspaper in March of last year, has been the one meddling there, fomenting unrest by “trying to draw Ukraine into the Western orbit, to pluck it out of Russia’s sphere of influence.” After the annexation of Crimea, he said Washington and its intelligence allies had “annexed the whole world” through global surveillance…….”
Another example of how the far left caves in to the cold war idea of a sphere of influence specifically tailored to Russian interests. What drives the far left is anti-Americanism. The wishes of Ukrainians are irrelevant. Reining in the biggest threat to world peace supersedes human rights so the radical left sides with authoritarianism and subjugation in opposition to US/western policies.
Only Ukrainians won in this case – although they lost Crimea Peninsula and must fight a war in eastern Ukraine.
connecting the dots
israel is deathly afraid of an America+Russia allaince
WHY? Because Donald Trump will discover some really weird stuff along the lines of the USSLiberty and that scares the bejesus out of israel so suddenly israel wants to FRONT RUN DONALDS CURIOSITY.
PressTV-‘Mossad chief, Trump team meet secretly’
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/19/500493/US-Trump-Mossad-Israel-Yossi-Cohen
As usual, your read is not quite right. Self-determination in Ukraine is complicated. Clearly, Crimeans do not want the same thing as others in Ukraine. In other regions, it’s more of a gray area.
Also, it’s not that “reining in the biggest threat to world peace supersedes human rights.” It’s fundamental to human rights.
Jose… you are so full of shit … I laugh with every post.
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?
2010-2011 — Squabble over EU gas supplies from Ukraine regions.
2011-2012 — pissing contest… deal couldn’t be struck … so, NATA and Russia start repositioning nukes.
2012 — Russian Prez Medvedev says [paraphrased], “If you move your boats into the Black Sea, IT’S ON!”
May 2012 — NATA shuts down NATO HQ in Turkey — moves everything to Germany.
2012 — Summer Olympics — US Navy boats with cruise missiles enter the Black Sea to protect the Olympic athletes from terrorists. (HAHA — How do you protect an athlete with a cruise missile?)
Killary was head of State Dept.
Crimea is like Cuba to the USA. It’s the Russian version of the Missiles of October, 1962.
Putin’s Palace is right on the beach of the Black Sea — straight across the Bay area east of Crimea.
Killary threatened Russia (Moscow and Putin’s Palace) with cruise missiles and nukes because Russia wouldn’t sign a contract with unacceptable terms for natural gas.
FYI, in 2012, I predicted that the border between Syria and Turkey would become the Maginot Line of WW III.
Guess what? I was right again.
ps… correction… Winter Olympics 2014… US Navy…
https://news.usni.org/2014/02/05/u-s-warships-enter-black-sea-support-sochi-winter-olympics
the gas pipeline deal would be a front for intervention for israel to exercise the Yinon Plan. The presence of US intervening would be to then depose Bashar al Assad. However, now that Russia has solved the problem in record time, the US of Samantha Powers and Valerie Jarrett to promote a negotiated stalemate for 50 years, has collapsed and they are very very angry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qseVUcy7Wto
watch from time marker 11:50
pass it around
I’ll check it out.
IMHO, the whole Black Sea situation is about whether or not the globalists get to throw an Eyes Wide Shut pizza party in Putin’s Palace.
Psychos run the world because of their inherent brutality… not intelligence.
Mona writes on this thread:
“………I remain undecided, but that aspect has really given me pause, notwithstanding those who are so utterly certain this was a Russian *government*-launched or -commissioned project……..”
Why would Russia attempt to influence the elections? Why would Putin support Trump? Mona’s comments from previous threads suggest that the election of HRC was an existential threat to Russians:
“……..Hillary Clinton has both personally, and thru surrogates, sent a very strong message to Russia that she will go to war with them in and over Syria. She unleashed a true sociopath (no hyperbole), Robert Caruso, to make that clear to all, including Russia, at the Huffington Post. Russia believes her, and is preparing for war with the United States………she is a Goldwater-level hawk, and has been her entire life, save for a brief moment in the late 60s, early 70s, when she gleaned that it was popular to oppose the Vietnam war. She will do this, notwithstanding the myriad military and other experts who declare it dangerous, and a serious flirtation with WWIII……”
“……In Russian politicians are preparing the citizenry for WWIII. Some are stockpiling canned goods , learning about bomb shelters, and on like that. Their media is suffused with even more paranoia about the intentions of the West than usual — theyreally believe we are prepared to commence WWIII over Syria……”
“……..horrible crap about Max Blumenthal regarding Syria, to directly address the documented fact that Russia believes it has vital interests in Syria. I have further asked them to address the fact that Russia believes, for good reason, that the U.S. is pushing for war……”
“……The more exposure I had to the pro-interventionists on the left, the more all I saw was disgusting behavior no different than the Israel apologists’ antics. Utterly refusing to address the actual points made, especially about what Russia would do in response to a NFZ. (Like it or not, Russia believes it has vital interests in Syria.)……”
“…….The most horrifying thing I took from that article is the further evidence that Russians are truly preparing for all-out war with the United States. They reasonably believe the U.S. wants that. Especially Hillary Clinton wants that……”
“……..When I was about 13 I asked my historian father how WWI began. He launched into this baffling stuff about an Archduke getting shot and how a bunch of folks got pissed off, one thing led to another, and soon carnage reigned in Europe. Nearly all the young men of a generation hideously died or were horribly maimed……”
“……Now, the world is poised on WWIII with many in the U.S. saber-rattling at Russia, a country that is acting as if it believes we want war. (And Hillary does want at least to go to the brink.) This is truly terrifying, he is spewing all the indicted propaganda about Russia to make that unthinkable event seem more “necessary.”……”
“……Hillary Clinton really does want to go to war with Russia. This sociopathic freak actually has no reticence about a brinksmanship that could cause WWIII……”
Personally (IMHO), it’s beyond ridiculous to believe that HRC was going to take the US to war with Russia. But if Mona actually believes what she wrote, then influencing a US election can be viewed as a reasonable response by Russia to an existential threat. However, Hillary’s tough talk about creating a no-fly zone, her vocal criticism of the Russian elections while she was Secretary of State, her support for regime change in Syria and Libya, the march of NATO to Russia’s doorstep and the meddling of the US in the “sphere of influence” of Russia (Ukraine) provided ample reasons for Russia to intervene in the US election.
It’s my (current) opinion that Assange probably knew that Russia hacked the DNC. Whether he colluded with Russian intelligence or not is an open question, but not out of the realm of possibility.
1. ASSANGE is a champion of TRANSPARENCY of information that belongs to the people of the US who was a public employee in a government of by and for the people of the United States of America
and israel2. israel’s desire to draw Americans into their wars for land and profits and “blame” are over.
3. Israel’s desire to kill Americans – as demonstrated by the deaths of 34 Americans aboard the USS Liberty 8 June 1967 – has not ceased, has it.
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/19/500493/US-Trump-Mossad-Israel-Yossi-Cohen
4. If you see Jesus walking about waiting to be called in for the 2nd coming to appoint the persons for the rapture, please do not nail him to a cross if you are not on His list. Otherwise, Have a J day.
It’s true that HRC was a serious threat to Russia and they must have known it. Still, it seems far fetched that the fairly ridiculous and useless Guccifer 2.0 operation is from a state party.
Not all countries take the sorts of risks the US takes. See, the US can deploy submarine drones near China. On the other hand, China would know better than to deploy such drones near the US. It would be seen as a “major provocation” and there would be a lot of chest beating from the usual suspects.
It’s the same reason Iran hasn’t developed a nuke, even though it’s had to put up with US hostility since at least the 70s, and has a hostile neighbor with 100s of nukes.
Jose
Of course, Guccifer might have been an attempt to confuse the CIA. My guess is we will probably never know the absolute truth in the DNC hack. No doubt, it would (will) make an interesting movie or book.
we will know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
RICH SETH WAS MURDERED
likely for the leak
sure looks like hurried job
at 3 or 4 in the morning, there are enuf cameras in DC and 0 traffic
the vehicle if any would be on a tape
Is this the best you can do?
Now that is seems that the Electors will confirm President-elect Trump, that the battle for Aleppo has been lost by the rebels and evacuation is underway with UN monitors, Russia – haters will try to restart the fighting in Ukraine. Oooops, just heard Russian ambassador in Turkey was shot….
The US side in that war (including FSA, ISIS, Al-Qaeda) and in Yemen (Saudi Arabia) seems pretty desperate. They are trying to draw Russia into a confrontation with Turkey, so that the US will step in more forcefully. They are trying to do that before Trump assumes power.
They are desperate and are making mistakes. Turkey and Russia will come together more and more. The EU is rejecting Turkey for its human rights and freedom of press record, the Usa is protecting Gulen and financing and arming the Kurds, Germany is protecting several military officers involved in the coup…..if Turkey was’t so important for Nato it would be out already. Russia might do a deal !
Marcie Wheeler writes why she is not buying the Craig Murray story (“Craig Murray’s Description of WikiLeaks’ Sources” https://www.emptywheel.net/?p=56544). Marcie Wheeler runs the EmptyWheel blog and is a former “Policy Analyst” for First Look. She writes in an update at the end of her article:
“………“Craig Murray is not authorized to talk on behalf of WikiLeaks,” Assange said sternly……..”
Marcy Wheeler is fantastic and very thorough. That said, her whole argument is that maybe not even Wikileaks knows what’s really going on. That’s plausible, but Assange was adamant in Hannity’s interview that the source is not a state actor and that Wikileaks knows who the source is. He wanted to stay as far away as possible from what Craig Murray has been saying, because Murray has been saying too much about the sources.
All in all, there are reasons to doubt Murray, and Assange has very good reasons to distance himself from suspected collusion with the Russian government. At the very least, he simply might be lying that this is an inside job, and he may have no idea where the emails came from.
Sorry, I don’t believe a thing Assange says (Independent, 2012; “Julian Assange launches talk show on Kremlin-backed broadcaster Russia http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/julian-assange-launches-talk-show-on-kremlin-backed-broadcaster-russia-today-7654690.html”):
“…….Asked why he had chosen Russia Today Mr Assange said: “In the case we are in at the moment, where our major confrontation is with the West, although we have published material from many countries, RT is the natural partner.” He added that the relationship might not be so comfortable if WikiLeaks had published large amounts of compromising data on Russia…..”
Assange did work for the Russian government at one time (so much for the ideal of freedom of information). The “confrontation with the west” is telling, isn’t it?
Both Assange and Murray have long-standing reputations as truth tellers that they would never jeopardize. Wikileaks has a perfect record in that no document of theirs has been determined to be falsified. That Assange had a show on RT in no way shows that he lies. Lots of people have shows on RT.
I wouldn’t jump to any conclusions on that:
“……….”After reviewing the existing investigative material and what the parties have stated, the Court of Appeal finds that Julian Assange is still suspected on probable cause of rape,” the ruling issued by a three-judge panel in Stockholm on Friday said. “The Court of Appeal also shares the assessment of the District Court that there is still a risk that Julian Assange will flee.”…….”
That’s a political case, and you know it. Name one case where someone’s been held for 5 years because a woman who the guy had sex with accused him of penetrating her a second time while half asleep. BTW, Assange was finally interrogated about it recently, and he denied it. Given there’s no physical evidence, and given that the woman herself never wanted to bring charges, there’s no reason the case should remain open.
US SHOULD BE AFRAID OF RUSSIA?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html
i dont get it. What did Russia ever do to the US? NADA.
Good article, but can we please stop saying that these hackers — whomever they are — were ‘meddling in the election’ or that ‘the election was hacked’ or that ‘our democracy is threatened’, because literally none of that is true either.
The DNC and John Podesta are not ‘the election’ nor are they organs of the government. They are private political actors and nothing more. Is it concerning that they were hacked? Sure, in the same way it’s concerning when any high-profile system is hacked. Is our democracy at risk? Absolutely not.
It is very much worth repeating that this wasn’t some disinformation campaign, or a nefarious scheme to plant fake evidence on DNC computer systems. This was a leak of information — TRUE information — and by definition the release of truthful information can only be helpful to the democratic process, regardless of where it comes from. Was there deep concern about the illegal release of Trump’s old tax returns to the NY Times? of course not. Nor should their be; that information was legitimate and in the public interest. As are the DNC and Podesta emails.
Once upon a time, investigative journalists used to make it their mission to dig up exactly this kind of information and publish it in major news outlets. The only shame in this entire event is that we’re now depending on shady hackers to do the job that our journalists used to do.
All this techie talk is fine, but also I would like to point out that a member of Wikileaks related in a press interview recently that he received copies of the leaked DNC emails from a DNC insider. It was an insider leak.
“INSIDER” — YES. OR, FBI.
“INSIDER” must be someone who has exchange server admin rights — AND, the ability to export ALL mailboxes to an external location.
I don’t know if the AppRiver “Hosted Exchange” service of AppRiver provides that ability or not.
It’s not generally available from MS to anyone who does not have access to a local console (local to AppRiver, in this case).
Anyone remember the mega-hacks at TJ Maxx, Dave & Busters, Barnes and Noble, and Heartland Payment Systems??? AT FIRST, THEY BLAMED THE RUSSIANS, TOO.
BUT, FINALLY, ALBERT GONZALEZ AND HIS COHORTS WERE CONVICTED. They pulled it off from inside” of every company.
On March 25, 2010, U.S. District Judge Patti Saris sentenced Gonzalez to 20 years in prison for hacking into and stealing information from TJX, Office Max, the Dave & Busters restaurant chain, Barnes & Noble and a string of other companies.[25] The next day, U.S. District Court Judge Douglas P. Woodlock sentenced him to 20 years in connection with the Heartland Payment Systems case.
APPRIVER HOSTED DNC EMAIL. PERIOD. It’s HOSTED EXCHANGE solution has got multiple layers of isolation from the internet.
For a hacker, it’s too damn much trouble to get into the AppRiver Exchange system.
It’s easier to get a job, there. (Or, an insider at the FBI can serve an NSL from the FBI to AppRiver… and just siphon whatever they want. Comey is responsible; but, Comey is on Clinton Payroll. Sooo… They gotta blame the Russians!)
——-
HISTORICAL REFERENCE
On March 25, 2011, Albert Gonzalez filed a motion in U.S. District Court in Boston to withdraw his guilty plea. He claimed that during the time he committed his crimes, he had been assisting the United States Secret Service in seeking out international cybercriminals and said his attorneys failed to advise him that he could have therefore used a “public authority” defense.[28][29] The Secret Service declined to comment on Gonzalez’s motion, which is still pending.[29]
It’s frustrating that many people who should know better are eating up these evidence-free narratives, even progressives who usually are pretty rational (e.g. some at TYT.) Even Trump might be convinced by the propaganda, but that’s really not that surprising. People who understand arguments and evidence and credibility should know better and shouldn’t be this irresponsible.
If people were actually following the story, and were properly informed, they would realize that the material published by Wikileaks that had impact is unrelated to anything CozyBear did. Maybe one day the truth will come out, but “I told you so” will be of little comfort.
“CozyBear”… that’s a cute name!
Truth be known: Twitter is a message bus for an integrated global grid-based distributed supercomputer system.
Please, the Intercept left has become unhinged. Even my cat, Putin, knows this is bull crap.
Our government spies on everyone . . . why would someone believe we are not spied on?
Donald Trump said he was going to ask Putin about Hillary’s E-Mails – Real or make-believe ( or both)
Truth is lacking – IRAQ – War based on lies….or faulty intelligence?? O.K. we accept the “LIES”
You can go with “WE don’t Torture” or WMD’s.
OMISSION of TRUTH – There were tapes of the torture – and the courts (ours) ordered them not to be destroyed. . . they were destroyed and operatives were charged – – – no prosecutions. . . they let the “statute of Limitations expire” NO PROSECUTIONS WERE LEGALLY CARRIED OUT…
we don’t spy?
@Jose & Truth Seeker:
Just scanned the subthread on AppRiver and SPF/MailChimp.
Truth Seeker: You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Jose: Have you noticed that MailChimp handles The Intercept’s newsletter? ;^)
I don’t give a hoot about mailchimp.
I DO give a hoot about the snuff I discovered related to “deadknife…”
Hey, Doug… I bet you like these! How’s Damien related to “deadknife…”????
https://www.google.com/search?q=Damien+Lefebvre+gay+images&biw=1360&bih=662&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWmqe7wf7QAhUrw1QKHaX_A3sQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=Damien+Lefebvre+gay+porn&imgrc=IjJmpJQSNNTlUM%3A
Just glancing at the link, it appears to be adult, gay male porn. I’m not sexually aroused, but I think it’s perfectly fine for those who are interested and/or aroused, if that’s what they like.
Did you mean this stupid post to be an anti-gay slur? If so, it should be removed.
Damn… you’re as dumb as Jose.
What’s deadknifes’ relation to “government agency”? Haven’t you ever wondered why you got all those “Buy V-I-A-G-R-A” spam emails?
Why is snuff on a “government agency” related system? Why is gay porn there? What is pizzagate? If you dig even deeper, you’ll find MKULTRA and Monarch stuff, there, too.
Enjoy. Dumbass.
ps… deadknife also hosts botnets.
If Trump supporters are generally this ridiculous, the next 4 years will at least bring some laughs.
Hey, Jose! Are you back again?
Would you like to star in a snuff film? The pay is really good. I’ll give you an email address so you can send him pics of your “stuff.”
A “government agency” is sponsoring the film.
You could be famous!
Rightwing cranks are often deeply resentful of intellectuals and the change often that accompanies their contributions. Richard Hofstadter, already referenced in this thread, was an insightful historian of American intellectual trends. He observed:
When the intellectuals also operate as elitists, with that ridicule Hofstadter points out at the end, this especially arouses populist anti-intellectualism. And there certainly has been a great deal of mockery and ridicule directed at, e.g., creationists.
Creationists cannot prevail against reason and logic, which infuriates many of them. Add in widespread derision, and they look for payback.
It was very possibly unsound for the pro-science forces to be as militantly mocking as they have been; an angrily aroused, numerically significant populism heavily predicated on anti-intellectualism is very bad for the body politic. The anti-intellectual Trump and his supporters — a number of whom are active in this thread — are partially the consequence of intellectuals’ victories with perhaps some unseemly crowing.
Oh dear. Wrong thread. (Altho it has some applicability here as well.)
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DNC DATA? DNC? OR RUSSIA? NOT APPRIVER.
27. Transmission of Data
Customer agrees that AppRiver is not responsible for any unauthorized access or modification of Customer’s data whilst in electronic transmission to or from the AppRiver data centers. Customer also agrees that AppRiver is not responsible or liable for any content sent using, or received from, the AppRiver service including that which may be illegal, obscene, defamatory, threatening or that may violate any trademark or copyright.
28. Privacy and Security of Protected Information
Customers are often subject to one or more rules that govern the privacy and security of certain information. Customer agrees that AppRiver is not responsible or liable for any content sent using, or received from, the AppRiver Service if it is subject to such rules and is not encrypted with an industry accepted encryption method. AppRiver offers one such encryption Service but many are available and suitable for achieving compliance with the Customer’s legal responsibilities.
28.1. In the event of a data breach or other data loss, Customer may blame Russia or any other entity. Customer shall protect AppRiver from any and all negative publicity related to any and all data breach(es) or other data loss(es).
https://www.appriver.com/services/secure-hosted-exchange/
(Terms of Subscription)
Jimmy Dore interviews Jordan Chariton on the unhinged left. Priceless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGMIMv8JQag
Watched an interview in the last two days and apologies for not relaying named and other info.
But, the interviewee made a good point regarding these hacks. The interviewee had two good points.
1. Fancy Bear or any professional hackers are smart enough not to have left behind the sort of markers that have been found as “evidence” of Russian hacking, and
2. The servers that were hacked (supposedly) were so weak in security that a 12 year old could have hacked them.
His first comment suggests false evidenced placed on the servers as to implicate Russians or Russian involvement.
His second comment implies that literally anyone could have been responsible.
Galactus
“………1. Fancy Bear or any professional hackers are smart enough not to have left behind the sort of markers that have been found as “evidence” of Russian hacking, and……”
“……….2. The servers that were hacked (supposedly) were so weak in security that a 12 year old could have hacked them……….”
On the first point, Fancy Bear has been identified over and over again so they apparently are not too concerned about their identification (see below), but it takes a considerably sophisticated, knowledgeable and experienced hacker to place evidence of Fancy Bear (and Cozy Bear) on the server to implicate the Russians (purposely) – like the CIA (which becomes conspiratorial). On the Crowdstrike blog (“Bears in the Midst: Intrusion into the Democratic National Committee” http://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/):
“……..CrowdStrike Services Inc., our Incident Response group, was called by the Democratic National Committee (DNC), the formal governing body for the US Democratic Party, to respond to a suspected breach. We deployed our IR team and technology and immediately identified two sophisticated adversaries on the network – COZY BEAR and FANCY BEAR. We’ve had lots of experience with both of these actors attempting to target our customers in the past and know them well…….. COZY BEAR (also referred to in some industry reports as CozyDuke or APT 29) is the adversary group that last year successfully infiltrated the unclassified networks of the White House, State Department, and US Joint Chiefs of Staff. In addition to the US government, they have targeted organizations across the Defense, Energy, Extractive, Financial, Insurance, Legal, Manufacturing Media, Think Tanks, Pharmaceutical, Research and Technology industries, along with Universities. Victims have also been observed in Western Europe, Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, South Korea, Turkey and Central Asian countries…….”
They are a well-documented adversary. Obviously a 12 year old cannot plant evidence of Fancy Bear, and the possibility that the presence of Fancy Bear/Cozy Bear is not related to the hack seems remote.
Jesus will not love you, nor accept you, unless you accept him and all other people.
Thanks for letting us know about unqualified sources of propaganda.
There is an axiom in America you would do well to learn from –
Consider the source
Have a J day.
Dumb.
“CroudStrike … was called by the DNC…”
DNC paid for Hosted Exchange from AppRiver.
AppRiver did not call the DNC.
Whoever leaked ALL DNC data had access to AppRiver as Admins. You can’t leak ALL mailboxes from a one or even a handful of client workstations. (Typically — 1 user each.)
The entire premise of the TI article is a propaganda piece.
Thanks for this piece – very helpful. Sorry to be pretentious, but as Tom Verlaine of Television sang, “Prove it! Just the facts…” :)
I have an Yandex email account because there is no advertisement and is very secure. There is no spam either. It is easier, it is fast and it is not an US based email and it is free.
Now my anti virus is from Amiti. It is from Slovenia. It respond to my inquires within 24 hours. It is covered by the EU consumers’ affairs and it is very good and proactive.
I have nothing to do with US based companies if I can hgelp.
I live in Canada for 6 months and in Latino America for 6 months. I am a Canadian citizen. Politicians are like sport palyers: they don’t give a hoot about anyone but themselves.
Missing from this analysis: Podesta WAS NOT HACKED AT ALL… He got phished! Big, big difference.
He fell for one of the oldest tricks on the internet. “You need to reset your password. So enter your old PW here so we can fix it.” I suppose at this point, if Podesta sends $50K in cash to a Nigerian prince, when he finds out he was scammed he’ll yell “RUSSIANS!!!”
Pathetic.
I believed the allegations about Russia doing the hacking until the CIA pushed into the public debate so vocally. What you have to understand about the CIA is that it never provides truth and always has a manipulative purpose behind public statements. If the CIA says the hacking was Russia, the probability just increased that the CIA did the hacking and left phony evidence to link the hack to Russia. The CIA could have a motive to bias the investigators from the outset to make sure the CIA itself does not face investigation. The CIA’s public dispute with Trump has the possible purpose of making it seem like the CIA opposes Trump’s presidency, when the CIA surely wanted Trump in power. It’s all a ruse, all smoke and mirrors. We’re supposed to see the dispute between Trump and the CIA and think, “The CIA could not be behind the hacking since the CIA seems to object to Trumps’s win.” This is how the CIA operates to manipulate public opinion in foreign countries and in the US and to hide its own criminal activity. Anyone who thinks the covert, election-manipulating strategies used by the CIA to undermine foreign democracies don’t get used at home is naive. The CIA’s budgets depend on who wins the US presidency. The government’s security state employees overwhelmingly vote Republican. They want their presidential choice to win just as we all do, and the CIA can misuse our government’s authority to get its choice elected, just as James Comey did .
electoral college is DENIED access to “russia did it” evidence because it does not exist
votes will be cast on Monday in accordance with SOP
FYI… I found something interesting…
One of the SPF records for dnc.org uses servers of mcsv.net who is owned by deadkniferecords.com.
Sure enough…. you gotta see it to believe it. Sounds and looks like a a front for a typical online kiddie porn snuff film library. http://www.deadkniferecords.com/
Their linkedin page is revealing. https://www.linkedin.com/company/murder-gore-records-
Website
http://www.deadkniferecords.com/
Industry
Music
Type
Government Agency
dnc.org. 600 IN TXT “v=spf1 ip4:208.69.4.0/22 ip4:205.201.128.0/20 ip4:198.2.128.0/18 include:amazonses.com include:sendgrid.net include:servers.mcsv.net include:spf.protection.outlook.com ~all”
—> mcsv.net.
[email protected]:~# whois mcsv.net
Whois Server Version 2.0
Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.
Server Name: MCSV.NET.DEADKNIFERECORDS.COM
IP Address: 173.192.104.145
IP Address: 173.231.138.192
Registrar: GOOGLE INC.
Whois Server: whois.google.com
Referral URL: http://domains.google.com
Domain Name: MCSV.NET
Registrar: GANDI SAS
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 81
Whois Server: whois.gandi.net
Referral URL: http://www.gandi.net
Name Server: PDNS177.ULTRADNS.BIZ
Name Server: PDNS177.ULTRADNS.COM
Name Server: PDNS177.ULTRADNS.NET
Name Server: PDNS177.ULTRADNS.ORG
Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 16-feb-2016
Creation Date: 28-oct-2005
Expiration Date: 28-oct-2017
The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .EDU domains and
Registrars.
Domain Name: deadkniferecords.com
Registry Domain ID:
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.google.com
Registrar URL: https://domains.google.com
Updated Date: 2016-12-01T00:00:00Z
Creation Date: 2013-12-03T00:00:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-12-03T00:00:00Z
Registrar: Google Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 895
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8772376466
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 124392260
Registrant Organization: Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 124392260
Registrant Street: 96 Mowat Ave
Registrant City: Toronto
Registrant State/Province: ON
Registrant Postal Code: M4K 3K1
Registrant Country: CA
Registrant Phone: +1.4165385487
Registrant Phone Ext:
LOL, this is fun.
SPF is an anti-spam protocol. Basically, a server that receives an email looks up the email domain, then checks if the IP address of the domain corresponds to the SMTP server where the email originates. A lot of times it might not match for legitimate reasons. What you do in such cases is add an IP/mask or host name to SPF record of the email domain.
Now, why does dnc.org list servers.mcsv.net in its SPF record? There appears to be a very simple explanation as it turns out. There’s an email marketing software called MailChimp (you know, the kind of software you might use to mass mail constituents.) This is what MailChimp recommends you do so that emails they send on your behalf (e.g. from an @dnc.org email address) aren’t flagged as spam:
Hi Mr. Combetta…
I know what SPF records are, dickhead.
I bet you didn’t know I also program IMAP and SMTP server software. Years of it. Cryptography, too. (In fact, one of these days soon, you’ll probably be using my stuff on YOUR computer.)
Now, turn your attention to this, dickhead….
Server Name: MCSV.NET.DEADKNIFERECORDS.COM
Appears to be into snuff. Would you like me to tell you what I found on some of the servers? It’s not pretty.
OK, sure, tell us, but I’m not sure many people will be interested in what MailChimp might be up to on the internet.
PS… I’m STILL waiting for you to answer these questions: For the 5th time, now….
I ask you these questions again, mf:
And, what does CAS do, mf?
What are the inputs and outputs?
What database is directly behind CAS?
What is its IP address?
How many layers of isolation are between the CAS and the internet????
I can answer all those questions. Can you??
(I’ve asked you 5 times now… and you still haven’t even answered 1 of them)
You’re a dumb F$ck.
That’s a set of irrelevant questions whose purpose you haven’t stated and will likely turn out to be another example of your flimsy knowledge about computing systems. If there’s something you think you’re trying to say, you should try saying it. I’ll see if I can decipher whatever mess you come up with. So far, you’ve only come up with dumb nonsense: The AppRiver thing, and the MailChimp thing.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, you are a dumb f$ck.
The problem for the US has always been that a great number — perhaps the majority — of Americans are gullible with a low panic threshold. Americans come by this trait honestly, having been governed through the politics of fear since at least the beginning of the Cold War (the real one, not the one currently being manufactured). Chomsky even wrote a book about it way back in the sixties called *Manufacturing Consent*. It’s grown even easier since then to generate a consensus by frightening Americans into it. To wit: the rapid shift from 30 percent to almost 70 percent of Americans who supported Dubya’s Iraqi WMD fantasy — even while he and his Secretary of State and his British poodle never convinced even one of his NATO allies to join his “coalition of the bribed and coerced.”
Russia’s fearsome Soviet past is the easiest ghost to invoke if you want to hold and grow Americans’ terrified attention. Moreover, a far better climate than the “war on terror” for the sale of guns, bombs, and assorted large-and-super-expensive war toys would be a New Cold War — and no doubt Boeing, Rayethon, Grummin, and the others who make up the Perpetual War Portfolio are quietly agitating for it. Therefore, Putin himself must have got on the keyboard and hacked the 2016 election, and all one lacks is the keyboard with his fingerprints on it — but those can probably be manufactured too, if necessary.
boy is delia rhue’s comment on the mark
So, in summary, the mainstream press and the government all have the same claim about their evidence: “trust us.” Yep, that’s it.
Of course they may smugly argue that they have seen secret stuff which “they can’t share” with the public. Why would anything regarding a supposed hack of the DNC be of vital national security interest, 6-8 months after the fact? What possible “secret” could they be protecting? Can anyone think of one?
Now there is the remote possibility that there is some actual evidence that the CIA/Obama are holding back. Yes, lure the skeptics out in the open, then ambush them with actual verifiable evidence. To make them look stupid? I guess. To discredit doubters of the CIA?
So far none of the alleged sources of these claims is even telling the mainstream press that they are forbidden, etc. from providing hard evidence. So it is a blind “trust us.”
Recent election results indicate that the American public isn’t buying that line, either for alleged Russian involvement or anything else.
The hard fact remains that even the crazed CIA/Obama line isn’t claiming that Internet hacking supplied the substance of the leaked emails. So the truth of the matter is, whoever was behind the leaking did everyone a big favor. Dirty DNC plots and secrets were revealed. This isn’t national security but peeking behind the curtain of dirty politics and Clinton operating style.
If say, the CIA somehow got public Vladimer Putin’s private emails and Russians could read those, would this be some dastardly act of war to “interfere” with Russian elections? No, just spreading truth to the masses.
Also, what evidence is there that Putin was smarter than the US media/polling establishment? That he alone somehow knew that Clinton would lose to Trump? If anything, any government hacking of emails was merely intelligence business as usual, or could be, to determine who the next president of the US was talking to and what they were planning, how they operate and think, etc. The NSA listens in and/or hacks virtually all international electronic communications for that very reason (so it is claimed). So, good for the US but bad if Russia, China, others do it?
This entire subject is part of the continuing denial of Clinton and the Democrats/Obama to try to overturn and taint the election results. That is the real crime here against the American people.
Americans are incapable of hacking into Russian systems because Russian systems are simple and easily secured. American systems are private enterprise systems, some which are full of holes and vulnerabilites and built by persons more interested in money and profits than what works.
Anyone knowlegable in “the field” should take exception to our government’s contrived posturing that “the Russians did it” (that it was a nation state attack).
What responsible intellects should be asking is who gains by the DNC/Clinton exposures and why? More narrowly, what would the Russian government (Putin) gain if outing the DNC & Clinton actually had any impact on an election outcome that placed Trump into office?
First I would suggest that the American people as a whole gained more than any single nation state’s interests. The reveals were stunning, and frankly necessary for voters to make informed decisions.
Second, considering the covert nature of both the DNC and Clinton, Russia would have gained more from a Clinton presidency through out-of-band back channel deals that would inevitably enrich both Putin and Clinton. Trump’s so-called Russian ties appear minimal at best in contrast to Clinton’s who has had years of unrestricted state department access.
Then there is the matter of the quality of the source data upon which our intelligence agencies conjecture their analyses (with apologies for using a noun as a verb.) All of the so called breadcrumbs and meta data upon which the “experts” opine could have easily been crafted to appear as anything a reasonably competent hacker group wanted it to appear without leaving any traces of tampering. The process is trivial. Therefore the basis for formulating opinion, much less accusation, is not only highly flawed, but unreliable.
Lastly, intelligence agencies publicly disclosing internal investigative research, especially at the volume of such disclosures, not only seems contrary to their respective missions, but feeds the disingenuousness presumably born from the political agenda of a losing party trying to save face.
I’m appalled by the degree of corrupt conduct perpetrated on us by our highest elected officials and political appointees who have circled the wagons after losing the electoral war. Apparently they believe they can usurp the electoral process contrary to our constitutional principles before the installation of our next president. These are the incompetent criminals who have the most to gain by perpetrating weakly founded lies upon the American public.
We should all be very concerned.
@Nir Haramati
To repeat:
Wikileaks’s devotion to “radical transparency” was fulfilled by publishing the Podesta and DNC emails. We learned a great deal about that corrupt Democratic cohort; multiple resignations (properly) followed, and; no longer can neoliberal hacks claim the Bernie Supporters are “conspiracy theorists” for claiming Party shills actively worked to subvert Bernie’s campaign and to promote Hillary’s.
Certainly it’s useful to know that in speeches to Goldman Sachs, Hilary Clinton refers to those on her left as a “bucket of losers” with “low social capital.” Yes, I’m very glad to have that on record, thanks to Wikileaks.
Finally, and again, you have misused the word “fallacious.” It does no mean: “disagreeing with Nir Haramati about the nature and value of Wikileaks.”
Hillary Clinton and the DNC, and the democrat sycophants, the Republican shills, the NeverTrumpers would go to war with Russia to lick their wounds.
Reading this garbage leads one to believe that the Intercept is what many claimed that it would be; a source of disinformation for the Deep State and Israel. The DNC leak was an insider. HRC insider was from a malcontent in US intelligence that did not HRC in power. Investigate the DHS and their involvement in the state of Georgia attacks and numerous other voter purges throughout the primaries and election. These voter voter purges are all documented. The Deep State goal was to put HRC in power so that a no fly zone could be implemented and a military US invasion of Syria would follow. Russia is being made a scapegoat to distract from the DHS hacks, voter purges and other criminal, traitorous acts. This swill serves to spread disinformation to serve those whoare closing in on a surveillance, police and war for profit state. Start with the following link. Greenwall, I am disappointed. https://electionfraud2016.wordpress.com/
war crimes by israel are always covered up by the whore media and whore congress in the US. The genocide of palestinians in palestine is about RACISM and as the world knows, israel is an apartheid spot of land. Non-whites in the US are not aware that the democratic party are closet racists.
Just a brief comment on the logic Mr. Biddle employs. He says, “There are some “good” reasons to believe Russians had something to do with the breaches into email accounts belonging to members of the Democratic party.” What does he mean by “good”? In logic, the word “good” indicates that an ARGUMENT is sound or strong. When discussing reasons, i.e., premises leading to a conclusion, the reasons must be true. So, I ask Mr. Biddle, do you mean that the reasons you employ to support your belief that the “… Russians had something to do with….” breaches into email accounts are true? If so, how do you know they are true?
«There’s a lot of evidence from the attack on the table, mostly detailing how the hack was perpetrated, and possibly the language of the perpetrators.» Mr Biddle discusses the lack of evidence required to conclude with any degree of certitude that, e g, the DNC or Mr Podesta’s email account was hacked by the Russians, but nowhere in the article does he discuss the lack of evidence showing that these accounts, which were very poorly protected indeed, were «hacked» (i e, accessed by an outsider) at all, rather than being leaked by an insider, as, for example, Craig John Murray insists. Mr Murray may indeed be in error, but Mr Biddle’s refusal to even entertain such a possibility is rather suspicious….
Henri
I find it astounding that Obama is accusing Putin of hacking, selling oil and weapons when he got caught lying about NSA spying on 35 leaders, he not only knew, he gave permission, AND he is the biggest weapon and oil salesman in the world. 115 billion sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia to annihilate Yemen, one of poorest black countries in Africa, and the Guardian just reported on Obama’s dirty oil deals around the world.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/01/obama-fossil-fuels-us-export-import-bank-energy-projects
Not a bad article, but why the swipe at Wikileaks? And why no mention of the former UK ambassadors assurance that it was an insider who leaked the DNC/Podesta emails? Incomplete article at best
It seems to me that CIA hacked the logic and common sense.
Even if the hack could be proved to have originated in Russia, wouldn’t the content of was revealed by the hack be more important than how we found out? It seems to me that we’re still going off on a tangent here.
The article concludes: “Viewed as a whole, the above evidence looks strong, and maybe even damning. But view each piece on its own, and it’s hard to feel impressed.”
Federal prosecutors in criminal cases make the argument in the first sentence all the time. View the evidence as a whole. Defense lawyers, like I am,
use the second sentence. View each piece on its own. Juries convict in 95% of cases using prosecutors’ logic. That’s what the President has done. He’s convicted Russia and Putin. Trump has been and will continue to be influenced by his business and oil connections to Russia. So he’s like a bribed juror. He’ll acquit Russia and Putin. Congress only cares about getting reelected. Casting aspersions on Trump will be good for some and bad for others. Every issue for the next 4 years will be poisoned by the toxins of Trump businesses. If Dems win the House he could easily be impeached. Thank you Jim Comey for violating every rule you learned as a prosecutor. You were the icing on the Trump-CrookedHillary cake.
FYI… “We” the COMPETENT technical technocrats of the universe, rule over kings and presidents and lawyers and even politics — making both war and peace, now.
Muah-ha-ha.
Otherwise, just remember that journalists only know what they are TOLD.
See my other comments below if you want the truth.
protocol violation is the weapon of dictatorship. The 2-rule set. Israel has a 2-rule set. It appears that some people in the US are looking to expand the 2-rule set.
>>> And then there’s WikiLeaks, which after a long, sad slide into paranoia, conspiracy theorizing, and general internet toxicity has made no attempt to mask its affection for Vladimir Putin and its crazed contempt for Hillary Clinton.
Really? Have we (you) really come to this?
Can we look forward to co-pro deals with Buzzfeed or The Washington Post or The National Enquirer?
The author is right about one thing. Americans do deserve better than this.
Generally correct till the last sentece, which should have been: What else do Americans expect? After hearing Samantha Powers, John Kerry and other official representatives, one is left with two ascertions: US Americans have no memory and US Americans are on the whole incredibly stupid. Which has been confirmed in last presidential election, where the two final candidates were the two least desirable, and the only candidate was side-railed by a corrupt and rotten party machine.
Some others of us caught that same bit right after the post was published and discussed it below. The author’s defenses are, at best, lame.
Regarding the statement:
“FireEye’s argument that the malware used by APT 28 is connected to the Russian government is based on the belief that its “developers are Russian language speakers operating during business hours that are consistent with the time zone of Russia’s major cities.””
Just take a quick look at an atlas and you will see that most of the Middle East including Israel in the same time zone as Moscow and Leningrad. Then you should know how many people emigrated from the USSR and Russia to Israel.
I am not accusing, but again, “circumstantial” evidence to arrive at an unsubstantiated conclusion materially or morally no different to the accusations being made by the CIA and the unDemocrats.
Listened to Obama yesterday and even journalists are getting sick and tired of his words. He leaves behind a world in a terrible mess.:Europe divided with extremist politicians gaining, ground, Ukraine at war, Libya, Egypt,Syria,Iraq in humanitarian meltdown, Turkey unstable, Putin more popular than ever. Usa on foodstamps, USA divided, the DNC in a mess, intelligence services losing credibility, even his wife admitting there is not much hope left. Blaming Russia for everything ! Obama your time is over, your legacy stands out in history and it is time now to make America great again.
I’d be happy if we could just make it respectable again.
Psychopaths rule the world. Why? Because they are expert liars and thieves.
USA isn’t the only one in this condition — but, it is definitely the most visible.
ACHTUNG! Here is what the corrupt US government is doing.
1. The gov realises that the cia lied to wapo who passed the lie onto the American public.
2. The democratic party either worked with the cia to perp the lie or, gratefully bought into it in the hopes of running a coup on America
3. Craig Murray and a many many others provided countervailing information that the cia and followers could not possibly be correct given evidence to the contrary and the public isnt believing the bullcrap that keeps coming from so-called experts who are forever getting hacked.
4. President Obama and members of congress decided to have hearings on the matter.
5. Realising that the coup was not going to happen and risking branding the US as being a ship of fools, Pres Obama talks with the f…b…i… and decides to buy the lie to save cia face (who cannot correct another mistake) and demand retribution to spank putin and forget the hearings and due process because he believes he would lose (again).
another clusterfock demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AaGVAipGp0
and this is America’s government; wallstreet thieves, fracking and broken pipelines poisoning the water supply, torture, rendition, spying on everyone, NDAA, weapons for donations, war fraud, war profiteers, drug infested border, lying congresspersons, financing terrorists, and who knows what else.
I think it’s kind of childish to blame Obama, as an individual, for what is clearly the end stage of global capitalism and the start of WWIII (i.e. the war in Syria between Russia and the west’s proxy forces: ISIS, Al-Qaeda, etc.) Obama is simply someone who benefits from serving the global elite, but it could’ve been anyone else.
Agreed– It could have been anyone in as President–pick a name–they all serve the same interests (military, corporate) and the same class (elite). Even Bernie with his “left” policies isn’t seen as really left in most of the world. That includes Canada.
You are right….I had too much hope Obama could have made a difference.
Wow. Sounds chaotic. Makes a person long for the return of the USSR and the Warsaw Pact.
Not really. As said before i’m from western Europe and my parents were liberated by US and Canadian soldiers…. They were lucky to be on the western side of the iron curtain.
MORE evidence Russia did not hack the lame, lazy, incompetent DNC…
FBI, NSA staff among Yahoo hack victims:
Komarov, however, said his company had already tracked down the attackers, identifying them as a group of eastern European cyber criminals who have hacked other online services such as Dropbox, Tumblr and Russia-based social network VK.com.
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/17/498207/US-Yahoo-hack-FBI-NSA
got that? you can believe lies from the cia, their cohorts, hellary, obama, or adam schiff, the dnc, or frosty the snowman…
This episode comes from the news that yahoo lost an additional ONE BILLION ACCOUNTS….
and BTW, Russia did it – entered the frackas in syria 9 mos ago, waited patiently while the US continued to make peace efforts while at war for 14 years, gave up on US BS, and in a few months routed out the terrorists at minor cost (compared to the $5 Trillion and 1million lives the US wasted).
Russia got the job done and the US is still fiddle-effing around throwing good money after bad.
FACT: APPRIVER HOSTED DNC EMAIL SYSTEM (HOSTED EXCHANGE)…
FUNNY WHITEWASH: DOES APPRIVER ADMIT THAT IT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DNC EMAIL SYSTEM????
NOPE! https://www.appriver.com/about-us/security-reports/global-security-report-2016-quarter-3/
QUOTE: Hackers wielding political influence: While it may never be truly settled who was responsible for the hack of the DNC emails, there is little doubt that it will have some impact on the current US election cycle. In July of this year, WikiLeaks posted 20,000 of the DNC’s private emails. While this act could well be misconstrued as “hacktivism,” there are other accusations that it may have been state-sponsored.
With so much information being stored digitally today, there is certainly more to come when it comes to cyberattacks affecting political events. Aside from the obvious political impact, there were also some unfortunate donors that had their social security and credit card information exposed. While credit cards can be cancelled, social security numbers are often used to commit identity fraud, which is something these people will now bear the burden of monitoring themselves for the foreseeable future.
QUESTION: Well, Mr. Murdoch? Why DON’T you know who hacked your own systems? Or, why don’t you know your own snitches?
You can believe msm “russia did it” bulldookie if you want to, and you can believe “yellow cake and aluminum tubes” bulldookie if you want to, and you can believe Sadam Hussein did 911 bulldookie if you want to, but before you do, you realise that the US lost 36 young Americans every day of every week of every month of every year for FOUR YEARS over THIS!>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AaGVAipGp0
barabbas… Follow the thread I had with Jose. I’m sick and tired of sycophantic sociopaths (even in IT) who will end up starting WW III because they will NEVER admit that they are incompetent.
Want the absolute truth?
I spell it out.
RUSSIA DID NOT HACK THE DNC. IN FACT, THE DNC DID NOT EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO BE HACKED. THE ENTIRE SYSTEM WAS AT APPRIVER. IS SOME POLITICAL HACK TRYING TO PROTECT APPRIVER, TOO?
interesting but probably not worth chasing because the EC vote is monday and the wmd media is doing a HAIL MARY to punish the electors for voting against the will of wallstreet.
if you are determined to make a difference in the future, you need to establish a goal. if you read my posts you may see how the current currency system is
1- not capitalism
2 – not legitmate
3 – not democratic
4 – not biblically good
5 – a system that begs the destruction of civilisation and the planet
populations need to see the spiderly sand trap they are in.
You got twitter?
I don’t use that crap.
But, if you do, Twitter this to Trump. “RUSSIA DID NOT HACK DNC. IT’S IMPOSSIBLE. PROOF: . See technical remarks by Truth Seeker.”
That ought’s get someones attention. Head this shit off at the pass.
i dont use twitter
DT is a really smart guy – not fooled
what gets his favor is rescuing America
he can do it
if you are a church person, you might mention that Jesus had an issue with lawyers and moneychangers – and it seems we are going thru that same problem again.
Trump is oblivious when it comes to tech … much like journalists and sycophant IT people.
He only knows what he is told about tech stuff… and I don’t know his sources. I would probably assume they are as clueless as Jose.
His thinking and public comments on the subject are clouded by the mass array of propaganda dripping off of our screens.
I guess I’ll have to send a detailed explanation to him, myself.
The DNC / WH / CIA / Hillary / Minions are willing to threaten WW III against Russia over this shit. Just like Killary said during her campaign.
NUTS!
ps… I hate the markup on this site…
INSERT [link to this article] after the words, “PROOF: See ”
I’m not kidding. Obama NATO and Russia are now playing chicken cuz of psychopaths at the DNC and WH.
There it is
i am sure he is aware of that
Anchor your perspective in the Bible.
Forget the old testament – it’s what didnt work,
i have said this before, Jesus was not a christian, he just wanted to show people how to get along.
What we have today is a case of inflated egos of lawyers who want to run everything but who, because of their institutional methodology, actually earn from conflict, so the corruption of their soul has them creating conflict then pretending to be the person to come to the rescue – it’s a giant con. They look to relieve every ounce of pain fooling themselves into acting for a perfect solution when the truth is, human beings are designed to withstand a certain amount of discomfort in exchange for a life worth living and looking forward to. Lawyers however are fault finders, and as they progress in their careers, they typically fall prey to attempting to form a world around the rule of law – in old testament style – which didnt work….
You don’t really understand how these systems work, even if you pretend you do. It’s true that email flows through AppRiver, but there’s no reason to believe they would keep a copy of customer emails. That would be very bad both technically (it would be a waste) and as a security practice (it could get them in trouble.) You seem to be confused in thinking that AppRiver acts as a mail server. This is from their FAQ:
It’s quite clear the DNC has its own servers, because those are the servers CrowdStrike analyzed.
In my experience it’s not worth it trying to reason with him. He’s an ardent Trump supporter who appears to have the same relationship with fact and reality his Master does. Some time back be began referring to both me and Maisie as “pedophile lesbians” and other weirdness, accompanied by scripture citations.
Some people are best ignored.
Ok Jose … aka Paul Combetta…
Like I said before, you’re a “dumb f$ck”.
You have no idea what I do or what my background is…. but, I WILL tell you, nonetheless, I can be a sysadmin’s worst nightmare.
;)
I get it. You’re a script kiddie.
Thirty plus years experience and almost my own 4 million lines of code says you’re wrong.
You’re a dumb f$ck.
I ask you these questions again, mf:
And, what does CAS do, mf?
What are the inputs and outputs?
What database is directly behind CAS?
What is its IP address?
How many layers of isolation are between the CAS and the internet????
I can answer all those questions. Can you??
(I’ve asked you 3 or 4 times now… and you still haven’t even answered 1 of them)
You’re a dumb F$ck.
And, what does CAS do, mf?
What are the inputs and outputs?
What database is directly behind CAS?
What is its IP address?
How many layers of isolation are between the CAS and the internet????
I can answer all those questions. Can you??
You’re a dumb F$ck.
DNC ***DID NOT*** have it’s own server(s).
DNC paid for HOSTED EXCHANGE at AppRiver. https://www.appriver.com/services/secure-hosted-exchange/
Hellary Clinton’s concern for the MURDER of SETH RICH is stunning.
So many bodies surrounding her and bill, people who did not die of natural causes but under mysterious circumstances and who had something to do with or damaging knowledge of, them.
Wallstreet bankster thieves backing of Hellary, LOST.
CGI dollars for weapons, LOST.
Donaters for Hellary’s secret 2-faced privitisation effort, LOST.
Hellary’s plan for more war in syria, LOST.
Hellary and backers plan to subjugate America to TPP tribunal, LOST.
Backers donations for positions in gov and TPP, LOST.
DNC voting shenanigans regarding Bernie, LOST.
CIA ambitions to run drugs and weapons and wars, LOST.
the democratic party is going thru the throes of crash-and-burn for the arrogance that poisoned them and now they are melting like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So
All i ask is an invitation to their wake so i can eat and drink up a refund for all my prior time and money wasted.
now being taught in school, the new democratic math
The belief that russia did it is directly proportional to the magnitude of their loss.
SETH RICH was murdered.
Hillary Clinton is a loser who was afraid of losing.
Hillary lost, big.
Wallstreet liars backing Hellary lost, big.
CIA support for Hellary secstate lost, big.
Hellary’s backers for war in syria & regime change lost, big.
ISIS backers and funders from the US using Saudi as proxy lost, big.
Hellary’s donations for weapons game lost, big.
Hellary’s backers with all their money for promises of TPP lost, really big.
The entire democratic party in all its corruptness lost, HUGE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
and like any partner who lost a spouse, the democratic party is going thru the throes of pain and denial by playing the blame game as they continue to melt ? 1:57 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So
Christian C Holmer
Come on Christian. I expect you to disagree, but I’m disappointed that I didn’t receive a “we’re lucky to have you here :-)” like some other folks below the line. And that zero intellectual voracity is impressive, a real heavy hitter – especially with that “Victoria Nulands” name at the beginning of your comment.
The same person that you believe “we” (meaning the Intercept presumably) are so lucky to have blamed the US for war crimes committed by Russia in Syria (targeting hospitals and civilians in Aleppo). He referred to Murtaza Hussain’s article on the humanitarian Syrian organization, the White Helmets as “vile and dishonest propaganda for terrorist collaborators and frontmen — and worse, terrorists themselves — funded and guided by the US and Western allies”. These are people (Syrians) dying to save lives from the ruthless bombing by the Assad regime and Russia – even if they are funded by the US. Doug then called the 2014 Syrian elections “valid”.
Are those examples of the intellectual voracity I should strive for? So when the radical left thinks coup in Ukraine, I immediately begin to think the opposite – a more or less trained response. It’s the very reason I post here.
Thanks for your intellectual voracity though.
I found a Snopes fact-check of the claim that the White Helmets are terrorist supporters. It contains this:
Yea, I wonder why people would be suspicious.
It continues:
This is all old news Jose. They have also saved thousands of innocent Syrian lives while many of them have been killed in the process.
I don’t doubt that. It’s their job. But I don’t see how they could be considered objective sources of information.
The media often uses information from opposition groups to malign countries it doesn’t like. It doesn’t make any effort to find out if there are other points of view. This is one area where “balance” goes out the window, and it’s very much intentional.
“…….But I don’t see how they could be considered objective sources of information……”
Fair enough, but not quite what was described by Doug Salzmann.
Hi, Jose!
I award thee with the Paul Combetta Medal of the Platte River Networks Regime.
Congratulations!
Looks like the FBI is feeling left out:
FBI Now Backs CIA Assessment That Russia Deliberately Tipped The Election In Favor Of Trump
I am shocked that the FBI didn’t want to confirm their evidence with Craig Murray before going out on a limb.
You don’t think the FBI should’ve talked to Craig Murray if they are actually conducting a serious investigation? I bet they didn’t. The reason is that this is a political matter wherein various actors are behaving politically.
I can’t think of a scenario where Murray didn’t handle or see the emails. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have any credibility. In that case, he probably doesn’t really want to visit with the FBI. Of course, the FBI would love to have Assange visit them in Washington DC.
Well, it’s just another lying agency of the government, so that would be unlikely.
It’s not just another lying government agency, Maisie. It’s the deep state.
One day it is to be hoped your bewildered Zionist mind will be able to comprehend it being both. We’ll see soon enough whether or not the Deep State wants to keep going with Trump’s instability, and whether persisting in this ‘Blame Russia’ business is just something to keep him in line or an actual change of heart.
Maisie, as you know, I don’t use the term “Deep State.” But if there were ever two agencies for which the phrase was applicable, they would be the FBI and CIA.
fbi and cia, what’s this, a wallstreet merger now?
JOE TRIP BE TRIPPIN’
#1. NPR is a propagandist operation for wallstreet. Just check their corporat sponsor list.
#2. Assange did NOT find Mr. Snowden a home in Russia. Mr. Snowden was in transit to Ecuador and had a connecting flight in Moscow where he was stopped for his own well being by Russia because the US was looking to ambush him.
#3. The CIA is in the business of lying to everyone – even to Americans. The CIA has no loyalty to any country – the cia is loyal only to big US corporat money interests and is still AFAIK in the business of running cocaine into the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrT-FJAgc0I
#4. Operation RUSSIA DID IT is a CIA sponsored operation in connection with their and wallstreet’s favorite whore, Hellary Clinton – youtube watch?v=zCGW033-82c
#5. there is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that Russia had anything to do with anything regarding the US elections. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html
#6. SETH RICH WAS MURDERED in what seems to be a hit for his cooperation in getting the truth out about the criminal mind and connections of Hellary Clinton.
seeing is believing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
and i was a bring-back-bill supporter
huge mistake
Thanks for the daily mail link. So HRC and her campaign were not only incompetent, they were internally sabotaged.
In case you missed my query of you in the other article, what do you think of this? So much for Trump being sensible about Israel:
Trump’s Daily Bankruptcy and the Ambassador to Israel
Here’s hoping against hope Trump really wants to solve the problem.
I did notice that his pick for Israel Ambassidor continences a One State – binational solution and that’s good – of course the devil is in the definitions.
The problem with our election integrity on the inside of this country you got dark money, easily hacked voting machines, voter oppression, gerrymandering, crosscheck, Citizens United, the Koch State within a state or our inability to learn from history because history has been deemed a cliché (I’m talking to you Reich Wing America)
Does it really matter who takes advantage of our big US for sale or steal sign? What about the defended existence of said sign?
Its apparently easy to take advantage of big strong us, we like it that way and there’s lots of global money available that you can’t trace willing to pay for results. So cry me a river politician, CIA and NATO persons (you couldn’t all be bad) about what country could be involved ..
but please don’t attack America to get support to attack Russia or to remove Trump to get Pence. Try to let us figure this out.
you wanna figure this out?
ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
now go figure
That wasn’t a question. Inserting Russia into the results of the election is interfering with our elections.
“Let us figure it out” you know (if anyone from the IC read that they probably got a good laugh)
what to do about our messed up elections.
Why the CIA is trying to foment unrest about the results of the election and pinning it on Russia is anyone’s guess, but it isn’t an accident. That would be like saying the hairstylist accidentally cut a customers hair.
To me it looks like since they are directing our regime change wars, Russia is getting in the way and the US is about to be completely taken over by a White nationalist, Christian supremacist, oil worshiping, the ends justify the means, absolute global dominance warmongers – the change they’re “prepping the battlefield” for will reflect that agenda, most likely, which could include a preference for Pence over Trump
Or perhaps “Russia luvs Trump” is Trump’s version of the “Obama’s a secret Muslim born in Kenya” treatment.
Who knows right? One thing is for certain we are getting hit with propaganda all the time. Hopefully they stick with words and don’t feel like they have to use other means which usually include violence.
What would be the point in posting this I’m not sure but there it is. Its like skipping rocks in the water. Sometimes you just watch the ripples.
well i am anyone and here is my guess. The CIA is taking direction from the mossad
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/19/500493/US-Trump-Mossad-Israel-Yossi-Cohen
israel is afraid of a Russian-American alliance because Russia would share intel on what they have on israel. Israel had 200 students in the US shortly before the WTC attacks. It is likely they were scoping for the operation. It is likely that israel and wallstreet wanted a war – neither considers mainstreet anything other than expendable to fight their wars and make their profits, period.
express.co.uk/news/world/736223/9-11-tower-Building-7-collapse-fire-conspiracy
Ah Israel, I don’t see what the motivation would be for the CIA to work with them for that reason.
I thought capitalism was supposed to make the world a friendlier place.
I guess that idea gets thrown out the window when a capitalist country tries to stop us from yet another regime change in the Middle East.
Drain the Swamp.
Get rid of the criminals, pedos, and psycho totalitarians.
A Night of the Long Knives…
Brief Dictatorship under Continuity of Govt.
New elections…
Freedom.
Can we get the customer service for internet and software services too?
Some important facts to consider for the entire picture:
From:
https://www.wired.com/2016/07/heres-know-russia-dnc-hack/
“Last year Russian hackers were able to breach White House and State Department email servers, gleaning information even from President Obama’s Blackberry.”
“Julian Assange of Wikileaks gave a soft disavowal of claims that his whistleblowing organization is in cahoots with Russian intelligence, “Well, there is no proof of that whatsoever,” he said. “We have not disclosed our source, and of course, this is a diversion that’s being pushed by the Hillary Clinton campaign.”
“This is, of course, the same Assange who boasts responsibility for helping find Snowden a home in Russia and Wikileaks publicly criticized the Panama Papers for implicating Putin in financial misdeeds. He’s also an outspoken frequent critic of Hillary Clinton’s time at the State Department. A damning document dump the weekend before Clinton’s nomination arguably aligns with both Russian interests and his own.”
From:
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/12/12/505272992/the-russian-hacking-kerfuffle-what-we-do-and-dont-know
“Given the conflicting public statements and the lack of information from the government, this could set up a whole new thread to the story — is the Kremlin holding what campaign operatives would call an “oppo file” on Trump or other Republicans?”
From:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/cia-fbi-russian-election-hacking-trump-clinton/95329212/
“The FBI does not dispute that the CIA’s assessment could be accurate, said a U.S. official with knowledge of the matter. The difference lies in the institutional standards the agencies require in reaching such conclusions. While the CIA develops assessments based on a broad interpretation of available data, the FBI, as a law enforcement agency, requires a standard of proof that could sustain a possible criminal prosecution.”
From:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/12/russian-hacking-trump/510689/
“Many of Trump’s surrogates have publicly suggested that Russia is the victim of a false-flag operation planned by U.S. intelligence—an assertion that doesn’t appear to be based on any fact in the public realm.”
Nonsense.
Just read the email headers directly from an email on WikiLeaks.
The DNC wasn’t hacked. AppRiver leaked.
No. All that X-Note header indicates is that the email was scanned by AppRiver SecureTide, an anti-malware software.
Ever heard the expression, “dumb f$ck”?
You don’t even understand what you are looking at. Are you a sysadmin… or just another Delusional Democrat that wants to nuke the world?
I’m quite familiar with the SMTP protocol and the headers of an email. I’m an IT professional.
How many DECADES of experience do you have? 1 month?
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO YOU… (PLEASE NOT RFC1918 ADDRESSES, TOO)??? What is CAS?
Received: from dncedge1.dnc.org (192.168.185.10) by dnchubcas2.dnc.org
(192.168.185.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.224.2; Tue, 24 May
2016 08:30:49 -0400
Received: from server555.appriver.com (8.19.118.102) by dncwebmail.dnc.org
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so you found a crack pipe, loaded up, and this is what you come up with?
just askin…
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/14/heres-the-public-evidence-russia-hacked-the-dnc-its-not-enough/?comments=1#comment-324966
My second favorite activity.
I’ll ask the obvious. You are working hard to discredit the theory it was the Russians. Who was it, and what did they have to gain? Clearly not Joe Script Kiddie.
Go look at the emails WikiLeaks DNC emails.
“view source”
See “appriver”?
DNC wasn’t hacked. AppRiver leaked.
Assange has stated it was not a state actor. Craig Murray has stated the docs didn’t come from a hack. So your question boils down to “why do whistleblowers exist?”
To be clear, DNC servers were hacked, and one group of hackers appears to be Russian, but whatever they did had no impact on anything, as far as anyone knows.
TO BE CLEARER: Jose is a “dumb f$ck”
The email headers say tell a story about AppRiver’s internal network, the DNC HOSTING done by AppRiver… and, last but not least, that someone at AppRiver probably leaked. Someone had to have MS Exchange Admin rights to do it — on an internal network segment that is NOT exposed to the internet.
The DNC doesn’t even own any servers.
Please stop embarrassing yourself and distracting from rational analysis of the facts. AppRiver is the name of a company.
I know what the name of the company is.
Is AppRiver the same “company” as the Democratic National Committee???
Rational analysis of EVIDENCE means reading technical logging information…
YOU on the other hand, Analyze PROPAGANDA (you analyze newspaper bs).
Even if AppRiver keeps a copy of the emails it scans, and they have rogue employees with access (which would be highly unusual for a cybersecurity company) that’s not where the leaks come from, per Craig Murray.
I resubmit… What is CAS? Or, are you the dumbest “tech” I’ve ever met? Do you work for Govt?
Will you enjoy the famous words of Pres Donald Trump: “You’re FIRED!!!”
What’s dumb is that you can’t even articulate your hypothesis. I assume you’re referring to Client Access Server, an authentication role in Microsoft Exchange. So?
I work in the private sector.
And, what does CAS do, mf? What are the inputs and outputs. What database is directly behind CAS? What is its IP address? How many layers of isolation are between the CAS and the internet????
I can answer all those questions. Can you??
Well.. Obviously you can’t answer or WON’T answer. You claim to be an “IT professional.”
1) The Leak Came From AppRiver with Exchange Server Admin rights INSIDE their network (aka employee); OR
2) The FBI (from a capture stream out of Communigate Pro)
http://www.communigate.com/CommuniGatePro/PIPE.html
Yup… TAG… You’re “IT”.
LOL
You’re FIRED.
Good discussion at The Jimmy Dore Show on “lefties” who’ve set aside their intellectual integrity and have decided to eat up evidence-free whispers from the CIA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGMIMv8JQag
PEOPLE ARE STUPID AND GULLIBLE.
DNC EMAIL WAS HOSTED WITH A THIRD PARTY. IN OTHER WORDS, THE DNC GAVE THEIR EMAILS AWAY.
TO WHO?? APPRIVER.COM.
PROOF: https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/15273
“VIEW SOURCE”
AS I SAID… THIS STORY IS BULLSHIT. OBAMA SHOULD BE IMPEACHED AND JAILED FOR HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS… RIGHT ALONG WITH THE HEADS OF THE CIA, CLINTON, AND THE CLINTON FOUNDATION.
THEY ARE THREATENING WAR WITH A “SUPERPOWER” BECAUSE THE ACCUSERS ARE GROSSLY INCOMPETENT AND FULL OF MALICE AND INTEND TO DESTROY THE WORLD.
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very revealing
thanks
If you know anything about networking and MS Exchange Server…
The person had access to the internal network, an internal subnet, and Exchange Admin privileges.
The DNC was NOT hacked. AppRiver Leaked.
Not to mention the FBI disputing the CIA and Wikileaks, itself, saying unequivocally that is wasn’t the Russians … and Seth Rich.
The ENTIRE story is BS. DNC email was hosted at AppRiver.Com.
Do you really think that the NSA and/or CIA has “god” capabilities at AppRiver?
They don’t even know “when” anything actually happened.
I know my servers get hit from almost every country on the planet every single day.
ALL MEDIA/CIA stories are BS.
Proof of my statement is listed in the LATEST column (not THREADS)
There is “evidence” based on sources that cannot be named and documents that are classified by an organization that solely operates in secrecy that Russia committed an act of war. Take our word for it, we are telling you the truth. Honest. And while you are at it, use this info to get the US involved in another bitter military conflict, hot or cold, because we havent had enough of those.
>>> There is evidence …. <<<
THERE IS UNEQUIVOCAL EVIDENCE IN YOUR FACE…
This evidence cannot be debunked. It cannot be argued.
It's IN YOUR FACE.
Where? Go to WikiLeaks' DNC leaks… click "search"
Find an inbound DNC email — ANY OF THEM.
Click "VIEW SOURCE".
Use your eyes and scan for the word "appriver"
Do you see it?
CONCLUSION: DNC wasn't hacked. AppRiver leaked.
(SEE MY PROOF UNDER "LATEST" COLUMN.)
People need to wake the F up.
lol! you are promoting your fantasies and imagination to a control level in your own operating system – which is what the founders of the United States of America revolted for. It’s called DUE PROCESS
please get on the next plane to north korea where you have the freedom of choice to believe everything dear leader says or not, and suffer the consequences for that.
buh bye
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/370465-russia-hacking-claims-nsa-
“[The CIA] haven’t come out with the evidence to show the tracing of the data from the DNC server to, for example the Russians, or anybody else, or going from them to WikiLeaks, which is a high priority target for NSA, in terms of network monitoring,” Binney told RT.
He’s one of the group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity who signed a letter arguing that if the data was a hack, the NSA would have a trace of the hack. The letter was published by Consortium News on Monday.
DNC docs were leaked, not hacked, intelligence veterans say
They argue “all points point to leaking, not hacking… leaking requires physically removing data – on a thumb drive, for example – the only way such data can be copied and removed, with no electronic trace of what has left the server, is via a physical storage device.”
Binney said why it is not a hack is the NSA basically collects a Full Take of the entire network worldwide.
“If [the CIA] are going to allege something like that they should show the trace route, and the path it went and how, and through which path those packets went from the DNC to the Russians to WikiLeaks. They failed to do that,” Binney added.
He said it also wouldn’t be the CIA illustrating the trace route, it would be the NSA as it owns the network and citied a previous occasion when the NSA showed the trace route of a hack from China back to a specific building in China.
“If you did it then, why are not going to do it now when this is a very serious allegation?” Binney said.
“When you send something across the network you are sending it into NSA land, and they own everything,” Binney said. “They have tens of thousands of embedded implants in terms of hardware and software around switches of the world, and they got trace route programs by the hundreds all around the switches, and they are collecting at different points throughout the network in the entire world, redundant collection. So, there is no excuse for them not to have both the content and the trace route, anything going across the network.”
Binney said he thinks the accusation is political motivated. One argument has been a neo-con drive towards sustaining military budgets as the country moves from a “war on terror” toward a “new Cold War.”
“Certainly, that’s behind some of it. Hillary Clinton and a number of people were going that way, and certainly the military intelligence complex fosters that because that means for a “new Cold War” trillions of dollars going into the coffers of those people, they would certainly be advocates for this thing. There is a lot of vested interest to keep this kind of thing going,” Binney added.
Binney said Julian Assange has already said publicly it was not the Russians, but “a leaker inside.”
“If the CIA is alleging a different story, they need to produce the evidence like they did on the Chinese hack,” Binney said. “There is no reason to withhold this kind of information, especially if they can prove it and so far as I can see they won’t even brief the House Intelligence Committee on the evidence they are using to make this statement. That tells me that what they are saying is a pack of crap.”
@Nir Haramati
Fallacious does not mean what you think it does. You were and are wrong about the “batches” matter vis-a-vis Wikileaks, and not just about the Iraq war releases.
Wikileaks got the Podesta emails when they got them, processed them, and released them in batches, as they have done a number of times before. Yes, this made these emails a campaign issue. And?
It’s irrelevant to ask , e.g., “the Iraq war emails exposed US war crimes. Are there any emails that expose similar, or related, severity in the Podesta emails?” Who cares?
I am not responding to the rest of your objections because they are also irrelevant.
fallacious
Your response falls under two meanings of the word: promoting a fallacy (by reducing a complex statement to a simple one), and attempting to mislead (by ignoring the bulk of the statement’s claim)
“And” Wikileaks claim to exclusively serving the truth is false, because it only exposed half the truth, along clear and indisputably partisan lines.
The actual contents of the emails are irrelevant? The question if they fall (far) short of a proof for your call to “hold Hillary Clinton in complete contempt” is not relevant to the issue of Wikileaks bizarre exclusively partisan pursuit? “Who cares?” Well, anyone who care about the reputation of Wikileaks, deserved for the Iraq war release, not so much for its abuse of past reputation to advance an arguably questionable task of (indirectly) electing the not-Clinton candidate. Or, in any case, should.
A short preview of what you find irrelevant:
1. Comparing thematic batching of the Iraq war emails to an attempt to maximize partisan exposure during an election campaign – relevant to the claim Wikileaks, and its defenders, lost perspective in evaluating evidential data.
2. The difference between election – a rolling event in which competing candidates and ideals, where any and all truths are partisan – and a past event that is incontrovertibly problematic from start (WMD fallacies) to finish (still not in sight) – relevant as indication Wikileaks lost its ability to identify and response to complex reality involving moral ambiguities.
3. An attempt by Wikileaks to deny the partisan nature of their entire Clinton releases archives – further evidence it had turned from a radical champion of transparency to a politically motivated organization with partisan intentions.
I am here to talk and to listen. Why are YOU here?
U.S. Will ‘Take Action’ on Russian Hacking, Obama Promises:
“I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections that we need to take action and we will — at a time and place of our own choosing,” Obama said in the interview with NPR, which will air in full Friday on “Morning Edition.”
“Some of it may be explicit and publicized. Some of it may not be,” he said.
-http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-will-take-action-russian-hacking-obama-promises-n696766
Why Didn’t Obama Do More About Russian Election Hack?:
“The Obama administration didn’t respond more forcefully to Russian hacking before the presidential election because they didn’t want to appear to be interfering in the election and they thought that Hillary Clinton was going to win and a potential cyber war with Russia wasn’t worth it, multiple high-level government officials told NBC News.
“They thought she was going to win, so they were willing to kick the can down the road,” said one U.S official familiar with the level of Russian hacking.”
-http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-didnt-obama-do-more-about-russian-election-hack-n696701
So in addition to making diplomatically reckless accusations with ZERO proof, the administration admits that this is only an issue now because their puppet wasn’t coronated? Soft coup?? Where’s this story at The Intercept?
definitely a ‘soft coup’. but a global oil soft coup.
Not much of a coup if their “puppet” wasn’t elected.
saying the Koch Bros puppet was coronated (all presidents are / have been puppets). big win for big oil worldwide.
to me the hacking allegations are a device to weaken Koch Bros administration or sue for concessions.
Are you sure you know what a ‘coup’ is??
“a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.”
Good, you got it half right. Here’s the full definition:
a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
Now, do you know what a ‘soft coup’ is??
Look when someone slurps up data to dump or leak there will be digital bits of everyone who has been there. These places and people were not secured, so, of course, others had been there. I get hundreds of phishing emails a month. Some of them even impress me and leave me wondering and worrying about less savvy folks. Not that I am calling myself savvy or even seasoned. I am a noob by comparison to some. What they have evidence of is that the DNC was not secured. Even
Guccifer confirms the DNC servers were a near playground for anyone interested, “Guccifer may have been the first one who penetrated Hillary Clinton’s and other Democrats’ mail servers. But he certainly wasn’t the last. ”
The DNC emails presented in volume were leaked. The DNC learned a valuable lesson; There are certain people you do not fuck with, or they will burn the whole place down. Alternatively, no lesson at all; the DNC were doing so much naughty that someone got the guilts.
This article is a joke.
Are you seriously playing along with this smear campaign designed to leverage Trump “administration” into giving concessions to his/their political / economic rivals?!
The Russians hacking the U.S. election? LOL
WHEN ARE RIVAL NATION STATES & ALLIES NOT HACKING EACH OTHER 24/7 ?!
Gimme a break. The U.S. has been hacking/spying/manipulating the Russians since long before WWII in every way & every imaginable scenario.
And Russia has been hammering us just as diligently.
Russia = Oil – period. Of course they want the Koch Brothers (Trump) in office. But their feeble efforts pale in comparison to the $880 million the Koch Bros. pledged to the 2016 election using their AFP party platform (3rd largest political group in America financially) and to the effectiveness of their Interstate Crosschecking of Voter Records that handed Trump the election win over all other ‘reported’ reasons.
Who cares if their is ‘evidence’ of hacking. Why wouldn’t they be hacking us?! We would have more to worry about if there wasn’t any evidence – now THAT would be news.
DeRS (and Pedinska)
“……You forgot to include in the list of Russia’s grievances the USA-backed coup in Ukraine — mind you, with the use of literal neo-Nazis that have also videodocumented their threats against Crimeans, and were later sent to the Eastern Ukraine to subjugate/kill those who did not accept the coup……..”
First of all, I didn’t forget to mention it (I did fuck up the date, however as 2010 instead of 2014). Only it wasn’t a coup. The toppling of Yanukovych represented the highest form of democratic expression – a rebellion against a violent government response (only) ordered by their masters in Russia. Pedinska links to an article in the Huffington Post (“The Neo-Nazi Question in Ukraine” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/the-neo-nazi-question-in_b_4938747.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004 via @HuffPostPol)
“………..Even more disconcerting has been the emergence of phone intercepts between high-ranking U.S. and Ukrainian officials which make it look as if the U.S. was basically, in the words of Princeton’s Stephen Cohen, “plotting a coup d’état against the elected president of Ukraine.” In other words, the U.S., in addition to providing moral support, may have paved the way for extremists to seize power in Kiev…….The real problem is actually the administration’s over-engagement in this case — as in meddling in the affairs of another state and trying to rearrange its domestic political machinery to suit Washington’s agenda…….”
Notice the use of the verbiage, “plotting a coup d’état”, “meddling in the affairs of another state” and “Washington’s agenda”. Additionally, there is recognition of a Russian area of influence extending into Ukraine. Greenwald quotes As’ad AbuKhalil:
“…….Imperialism is to have the temerity to lecture and hector Russia about the evils of intervention in the affairs of its neighbor, Ukraine, where the U.S. and EU are blatantly conspiring against Russian interests there………”
Former Intercept staff journalist, Marcy Wheeler pointedly writes (“Why Is CIA Avoiding the Conclusion that Putin Hacked Hillary to Retaliate for Its Covert Actions?”:
“……..The most logical explanation for the parade of leaks since Friday about why Russia hacked the Democrats is that the CIA has been avoiding admitting — perhaps even considering — the conclusion that Russia hacked Hillary in retaliation for the covert actions the CIA itself has taken against Russian interests……. The likelihood that Russia targeted the former Secretary of State for a series of covert actions, all impacting key Russian interests …….”
1. There is nothing in international law or at the UN which recognizes a “sphere of influence or interests” despite the rhetoric of radical leftist like Greenwald. That is a cold war idea and an attempt to blame the Ukraine revolution on the US.
2. Protests began in November 2013 after “Yanukovych chose not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union at the summit of the Eastern Partnership at Vilnius, choosing closer ties with Russia instead”. That had nothing to do with the US. That was Yanukovych following orders from Moscow.
3. Russia/USSR dominated Ukraine for decades in the lead-up to these protests. Ukrainians rebelled against that domination in the same way that South American countries railed against US domination.
4. The loss of the Ukraine to the west was a massive failure of Russian intelligence. Russia’s next door neighbor was crawling with FSB agents attempting to influence and quell the riots using force. “Retired[73] Colonel of the Main Intelligence Directorate of Russia (GRU) Aleksandr Musienko stated that the conflict could only be solved by means of force, and that Ukraine had proven it could not exist as an independent sovereign state.[73][74]”.
5. Russia has no inherent right to run the affairs of Ukraine. The Russian government signed two agreements recognizing the sovereignty of Ukraine which they violated. The Ukrainian revolution was the highest form of democratic expression. Over 100 protesters died in a state-sanctioned crackdown which directly led to the removal of Yanukovych. Yanukovych was democratically-ousted by a vote of 328-0 in the Rada after he fled the country to Russia where he resides today. “…..On February 22, 2014 MPs voted to remove Viktor Yanukovych from the post of president of Ukraine” on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties[1]”…..”
6. The US recognized the new government and developed ties with anti-Yanukovych party members well before the Rada voted him out. The CIA was most certainly involved. The US backed and recognized the new government, while the FSB worked on behalf of Russian interests. Russian intelligence completely misread the level of discontent with Russian domination of Ukraine before and after the fall of the USSR. Yes even the “world’s most clinically efficient intelligence services” (as described by Murray, the human rights activist) can fuck up.
The US did not plot a “coup”. The US did not violate the interests or sphere of influence of Russia. No such entity exists! Russia signed two agreements recognizing the sovereignty of Ukraine which they violated. The FSB “plotted” to keep the Russian puppet, Yanukovych, in power. There is nothing shocking about this – and there is no reason to doubt that a modern state intelligence agency will position itself to influence the outcome in the country next door which has been in its pocket for decades. What is shocking is how the radical left apparently supports Russia’s right to run the affairs of Ukraine – a sovereign nation.
Victoria Nulands Muse (Craig) has no genuine grasp of Russian, European or American history.
For someone approaching zero intellectual veracity he takes up a lot of space. Thanks to many of you for micromanaging his endless BS for years. And years.
Obama is the stupidest person on earth. First of all this business that Russia hacked and controlled the election is pure fantasy as everything is with these crazy ass liberals. Truth to a liberal is whatever comes out of their butts. Even if what they say can be proven wrong they still say it is true. But to say on national t.v. that he is going to retaliate is just pure stupidity since there is NO PROOF THAT HACKING OCCURED, just more lies and fabrication. When this does backfire on Obama and it will cuz it always does, i hope we never have to see or hear from the stupidest man on earth for as long as we live.
actually you are only half correct..monsanto obama is the 2nd biggest idiot on earth..behind the loser you voted for NOT ONCE BUT TWICE and gave us president monsanto obama for 8 years..you know bush jr.
Now the MSM is reporting that Obama will “retaliate”. Amazing. Any retaliation is based on nothing. It’s now clear that FancyBear’s releases were unrelated to Wikileaks releases. In other words, what Assange and Craig Murray are saying does not contradict the public evidence on FancyBear. FancyBear releases had negligible impact. Further, FancyBear seems a little too Russian. They could very well be Russian hacktivists or some other outfit pretending to be Russian hackers.
Maybe Obama will strike a bargain with Putin – no economic sanctions if Russia removes all of her WMDs. Seems fair.
If one day the US is not the wealthiest country on Earth, and other countries arbitrarily and abusively decide to impose sanctions on the US in order to hurt its economy, based on half-ass accusations, what will you say?
I’ll be long gone by then. But if I were the great grandchildren of Putin, I would say what goes around comes around. In fact, Vladimir probably said that well before the US elections.
Over here in western Europe this morning articles outside the MSM are appearing on the declarations of Former UK ambassador Murray as to who leaked the emails to Wikileaks. It seems it was an insider from the DNC disgusted by the way Sanders was sabotaged by his own party. This argument sounds much more plausible especially if you read the letter of the former veterans for Intelligence …..Enjoy your Friday everybody.
that insider may have been SETH RICH who was murdered.
The manner of the murder was something that an organisation would do, not a street fight, or robbery, etc. He was watched, followed, killed – probably a team effort at the time.
In the US, they will not talk about it.
Here is an interesting background on the Clinton rise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
not covered in this is what came before – the Reagan CIA sandinista oliver north guns and cocaine deals
– yeah, the US is really F’d up, corrupt beyond recognition
pass it on
also- the zions are quite pissed off that they didnt get their 2-faced elected.
And here’s a link to the above-mentioned letter:
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/
Another voice from Europe
Wonder why that letter is not posted here?
http://warisacrime.org/vips
People that cannot read this article without some sympathy …. I really wonder if they should have a seat at the table?
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/15/making-russia-the-enemy/
I’m afraid that many people who control the seating at some of the world’s most important tables have neither sympathy for nor interest in Parry’s wisdom and insight.
Thanks for the link. I just checked his site yesterday and might have missed this fir a while if you hadn’t cited it.
Sad, isn’t it?
Clinton is a woman and she was so arrogant that she thought she had it in the bag.
Now she wants to nuke Russia.
Can you imagine her in the White House… getting daily internet “ping” reports from the CIA??? Each “ping” will be deemed as an attack?
We’ll run out of nukes.
no kidding. Hellary is unstable and wicked.
Check it out – The dems and their ho msm wmd media are screaming about Trumps lack of foreign police whatever.
Q. What is foreign policy for?
A. It’s for nothing if it isnt for business.
Q. As Trump has business ties everywhere and is all about business, then why are the dumb&dumbers complaining about his lack of foreign policy experience?
A. Because the dumb&dumbers like hellary and elected jackasses are legal crackers not business people. They have it in their mind that foreign policy is all about making rules for business to rule over business.
Q. So why when you have a guy who is already all about business and making good decisions with other businesses elsewhere would you need any foreign policy anything?
A. because the foreign policy cult is all about declaring enemies and making business difficult – as if they know what’s good for the population.
Fact: foreign policy is a sham.
ps… to what I said about running out of nukes.
Your article says this (to which I suggest as PROOF OF INTENT):
>>> On Thursday, liberal columnist E.J. Dionne Jr. joined the call for electors to flip, writing: “The question is whether Trump, Vladimir Putin and, perhaps, Clinton’s popular-vote advantage give you SUFFICIENT REASON TO BLOW UP THE SYSTEM.” <<<
Democrats are SUICIDAL MANIACS.
Today’s “big story” was so much more pathetic than the CIA one, since this time they wouldn’t even say what department/office/branch etc. the US officials with the big news worked in.
Wow It’s That Secret.
I’m surprised they were able to name what government they worked for.
AND anyway, the really sensational stuff: that they knew Putin personally was involved. AND they knew Putin’s motive.
I’m not up to scoffing at this right now so other people should, but it sounds ever more dubious.
It was fun clicking on the different stories this morning and seeing one say “high degree of confidence” and immediately next “almost certain.” That little gap created by the hedge-words in these claims, hedge-words that somehow can’t be excised without turning the story into a lie? It’s like Zeno’s Paradox. You can never get across.
I’m looking forward to next week. Knowing how incompetent the Clinton campaign & sycophantic media stoolies were, I have very high hopes that the particular bunch spreading this story are going to trip on their shoelaces quite soon.
Over at the clueless Salon, “Digby” is now asking the hard questions!
Indeed, Digby, indeed!
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/15/what-did-donald-trump-know-about-vladimir-putins-attempt-to-hack-the-election-and-when-did-he-know-it/
LOL
The loss of Digby to basic partisan humpery is sad, she used to more of a critical voice.
I’m not too surprised because she basically ducked out of primary season, as if “Vote Blue No Matter Who” were some kind of meaningful political philosophy rather than a surrender.
All this whodunnit crap is a major distraction from the real issue, which is the content of the hacks. It matters far less who’s responsible for the hacks that what they contained. DNC rigging the process for Clinton and against Sanders, Clinton’s previously secret and revealing remarks, etc. I realize that some of us assumed all of this stuff anyway, but most Americans certainly didn’t and the information could be very useful.
Somehow I find the circumstantial evidence that Comet Ping-Pong is involved with Satanic child abuse much stronger than the circumstantial evidence that Russian Hackers are responsible for the leak of DNC and Podesta emails.
“”But “good” doesn’t necessarily mean good enough to indict Russia’s head of state for sabotaging our democracy.””
Even if* agents of the Russian state stole and released some internal documents from one of the US’s two major political parties…
(and i’ve yet to see proof that such a thing happened that wasn’t just run of the mill ‘hacking’ with no particular international-espionage context)
… one – none of that material would even *theoretically* be politically damaging if it weren’t for the corruption inside the DNC = which absolutely no one in the media seems to give a whit about, including Herr Biddle…
…two – characterizing some document/communication leaks as “Sabotaging our democracy” is beyond ridiculous
Its an absurd exaggeration which pretends that voters didn’t have ample reasons to vote the way they did *sans* the disclosed information; none of which, btw, has ever even been demonstrated to be particularly significant. Who actually changed their vote because they learned that Donna Brazile was a shameless hack within CNN, sharing debate-questions with the Clinton campaign? Who really was surprised to learn that writers @ Politico were in bed with the Dems?
Why would any of that be more-dangerous to democracy when hacked by “Russians” than if leaked by disgruntled Bernie supporters?
Democrats lost 900 seats in State legislatures, a dozen governorships, 90 house seats and and 13 senate seats since 2008.
Were THOSE all caused by the Russians as well? Or were – shocker – voters in much of the country tiring of the Democrat posture of assuming that what works in California should work nationally?
@*#%$ the Russians. Even if they were guilty on all counts, they’ve done nothing of consequence. The real scandal of the last year is the shameless hackery and intellectual-dishonesty of the media. Biddle included.
To the Intercept. Should these forums be used for petty attacks by participants on each other (which serve no purpose except to the participants … seemingly), or should they serve to comment on articles written and points made, to improve outcomes of understanding of what is going on and for creating strategies going forward? If these forms are just going to be used for some of the petty bickering seen below there will be no point in my participating or for others that want to have discussions on the articles and how we can go forward to improve democracy in this country and around the world. I assume this will be the choice of the moderators, but these kind of things have a barring on the overall seriousness and reputation of the enterprise.
David, I couldn’t agree more.
Which is why I highly value The Intercept’s articles but never comment here.
I agree… except one thing.
This article is propaganda.
The truth of the matter is this: The DNC was never hacked. They “rented” a Hosted Exchange Solution from appriver.com.
The way appriver is configured (and based upon my tests) indicates that the DNC emails were leaked by AppRiver … or the FBI.
See below for details.
I kid you not.
If politics were like chess, or a court case, or even a group of people talking issues out, then you could make a case that ‘Russian meddling’ played a determinative role in the outcome. Unfortunately, politics (even Russian politics) is like groups of people, with one person from each group using a megaphone, trying to shout each other down, with most of each group either acting like a ‘people’s megaphone’ or like a bunch of drunk fans at a rock concert shouting for their favourite hit, while street preachers and carnival barkers try and work whatever is being said into their pitches, with thousands of slot machines mixed into the groups, all in the middle of the food court of a megamall on December 24th, with an air show, a demolition derby, and a bunch of roller coasters thrown in for good measure. Even if you imagine someone deciding to send in the full cast of the Victoria secret pageant, dressed in what they wore on the runway, saying as seductively as they could ‘vote xxxx’, to claim that that that shifted the vote in a measurable (let alone meaningful) way involves ignoring the obvious.
Very clear answers from Julian Assange in this Hannity interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6qlc3lStM4
He explains that people conflate Guccifer 2.0 / DCLeaks with Wikileaks. What Wikileaks published was of an entirely different nature and had much more impact. He also noted (as others have) that Guccifer 2.0 / DCLeaks (FancyBear) look a little too much like they are from Russia.
Gosh where is MSNBC and WaPo and NYT? Why do they never host Julian Assange? Why does leftist media never host representatives of organizations that help expose war crimes?
Christian C Holmer ? EM
December 15 2016, 4:59 p.m.
Thanks for that bit about Crowdstrike and the Sony Korea hack. The Atlantic Counsel Think Tank.
I’m still having a hard time understanding why TPTB refuse to disclose evidence supporting a Russo Cyber Incursion (investigative techniques) when Bill Bonney paints such a clear picture…
…The retired intelligence analyst also noted that traceroute packets are embedded in hundreds of switchers around the world, and that email messages are easily traced.
“With all the billions of dollars we spend on this collection access system that the NSA has, there’s no way that could have missed all the packets being transferred from those servers to the Russians,” Binney said.
“I mean, they should know exactly how and when those packets left those servers and went to the Russians, and where specifically in Russia it went. There’s no excuse for not knowing that.”
If it was a hack, Binney reveals, the NSA would know who the sender and recipients of the data are, thanks to mass internet surveillance programs. The intelligence apparatus does not depend on “circumstantial evidence,” as has been reported.
“My point is really pretty simple. There should be no guessing here at all, they should be able to show the traceroutes of all the packets, or some of them anyways, going to the Russians and then from the Russians to WikiLeaks,” Binney explained. “There is no excuse for not being able to do that — and that would be the basic evidence to prove it.
Otherwise, it could be any hacker in the world, or any other government in the world, who knows.”
https://sputniknews.com/us/201612141048568197-nsa-whistleblower-binney-cia-lying-russia/
Why would anyone refer to Julian Assange / Wikileaks as “paranoid” for thinking the US government/NSA/CIA is out to get him. There is good common sense reason he is holed up in an Embassy of a government that is not a puppet of the USA. Otherwise it is pretty clear he would be in a jail.
The old joke, “you’re not paranoid if… ”
and
“Can’t we just drone this guy?” — Hill
Well if you wanted to blame someone it would make some sense to drop the name of your target. It would make no sense to be Russian and leave tracks straight back to you.
Looks like low-level disinformation here.
Yet, the super-sophisticated hacker groups decided to name themselves FancyBear and CozyBear and to create public websites and personas that boast about their doings for no apparent reason.
It’s been suggested that the US intelligence community itself was behind it. I think that’s more plausible than the Russian state doing such a sloppy job.
FancyBear and CozyBear are apellations that researchers codename the groups. They are not what the groups call themselves.
It’s frightening that you vote.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. See fancybear.net.
hellary and her cohort of criminally minded renegades are about to lose again. Electoral college voters will NOT rebel against Trump they say – as they tell of desperate appeals from ‘idiots’ to oppose president-elect on Monday. One wonders of the Clinton Global Initiative was modeled after the ADFA..
ontology.buffalo.edu/smith/clinton/arkansas.htm
While the NonMedia-CorporateMedia are all now reporting that these are “Russian leaks” none of them have yet to provide any concrete evidence.
If WikiLeaks says NO, and the CIA says YES, I’ll belive WikiLeaks each and every time:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html
What color pill is that? Red, blue, purple? Because at this point I’m willing to take any pill of any color if it affords me the luxury of believing that something, anything at all in fact, is actually true.
The recent media frenzy about US claims of Russian intervention in Donald trump’s election victory is a “fake news” campaign designed by Washington to install tyranny in the US, says an analyst in Chicago.
More false news – “White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest added that it was “pretty obvious” that Mr Putin was involved”. But still no proof
White House supports claim Putin directed US election hack BBC News :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38336272
Top NSA Watchdog Who Insisted Snowden Should Have Come to Him Receives Termination Notice for Retaliating Against a Whistleblower
http://www.pogo.org/blog/2016/12/intelligence-community-landmark.html
I don’t know what you’ve been doing wrong when posting links but the one you’ve posted above does not open, due to “doesn’t exist,” and the same has happened with other links you’ve posted of late. I’ve linked to a Common Dreams article which is either the same article you intended to link to or at least the same story you intended to link to.
Common Dreams with that story “Criticism by agency’s inspector general appears particularly threadbare after internal panel found him guilty of lashing out against employee who came forward”
Now that the election craze is fading, the intercept reads more like an informative journal than Pravda. That’s a nice change.
Good piece, sir.
One question tho, what’s the beef you guys have with Wikileaks? If one should be pissed it would be them: they do the exfiltration op, you guys get the docs. And on top of it you don’t even publish them.
You’re right that JA looks and sounds wrecked in his latest interviews, after all as you mention, he has been locked up for a long time.
You fail to say that he shouldn’t.
couldn’t make it past the wikileaks rant. not that anything before it was above the usual NYT/WaPo level of wankery. some points:
– “paranoia”? is that what it’s called to be upset when a top official and aspiring future POTUS says “why not just drone him” about you? trashing wikileaks on the intercept site is sad enough, but it also reeks of yuppie beltway “consensus” “thinking”. surprised you didn’t slip a line about assange being a “rapist” in there.
– guccifer has stated he is neither russian nor wants anything to do with russia. only words but also the opposite of what you imply so worth noting.
– https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/12/cias-absence-conviction/
– http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html
– https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/
– most or all of these “russia did it” claims are anonymous with the taint of CIA all over them. they’re also spread by people with little if any technical knowledge who probably have problems getting powerpoint to work with their projector. as for crowdstrike, the fact that they started spewing this moronic tale so quickly is an indictment in and of itself. forensics on thhat level and with such stated certainty doesn’t happen over a few days. weeks. maybe months. they – like the israelis who claimed to crack the iphone for the FBI – are just shameless self-promoters.
– the pentagon (or at least certain mouthy warmongers within it) claimed to have malware in russia’s infrastructure and stated a willingness to use it to shut down the country’s grid. if true and not just smack talk that alone removes any right of any american to whine and bitch about fantasy hackers attacking machines with no internet connection or “hypnotising” people into voting for trump with emails that even clintonians said were underwhelming.
i may have redundantly restated things you mentioned later in the article but i can’t feel too bad about that since reading it past the first section wasn’t beneficial in any way.
tp took the words right out of my mouth, smaamy seems to be a JA hater
so many of them
didn’t think I’d see it like this @theintercept though so disgusting
thanks to the pair
Russia did it again.
US, UK cry foul as Syria rejoices at victory in Aleppo
The hellary-obama-cia-poodle-puppies are coming apart.
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/15/498047/US-UK-Syria-Aleppo-Fallon-Carter-Assad-Russia
After Crooked Hellary was assured by DNC operatives that michigan was hers, shock happened upon hearing she lost michigan. Explanation?
Russia Un-did It
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/14/report-evidence-of-detroit-voter-fraud-too-many-votes-in-37-of-precincts/
The White House effort against voting issues is just a ploy to get people busy not looking at DNC VOTE RIGGING.
A superb article that I plan to share widely. Thank you!
Agreed, but with the caveat I wrote of below.
mmmm yeah I spoke too soon.
Biddle should have responded to that comment line with more justification than just what he did. I think your objections were fair, and your comments on Assange reasonable, and plenty of people like rrheard asked reasonable questions of Biddle that went unanswered.
Well, one thing is clear. Hillary’s campaign should have used Edward Snowden to make sure their communications were secure.
And TI badly needs to moderate their comments section. This is indeed a mess.
“Well, I’ll tell you Stu, I did battle some humongous waves! But you know, just like I told the guy on ABC, Totalitarianism is my business!”
J. Spicoli
Thanks for this article Sam, it’s one of the best, if not the best analysis that I have read to date. A much needed antidote to the innuendo and cleverly word hit pieces.
This issue is extremely serious as it is being used to get Americans to re-hate Russia. That hate can, and eventually will, lead to war. The closest parallel in recent history was all the “sources say Saddam has ____ ” crap. And well all know where that went.
The way that the Spanish American war started is also illustrative. Prior to the Maine blowing up in Havana harbour, there really was not any hate for Spain or clamour for war. After? Like a gas fire.
I see similar patterns and dynamics at play today.
A day never goes by Twitter when I’m not called a Putin lover/apologist/commie on Twitter – where I spend most of time these days. That because I have to power to shut off the maniacs and the secstate kapos who like to report people. They still report me of course, but I don’t have to listen to them ululating about it.
For everyone’s information: ICELAND’S FORMER MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR CLAIMS THE FBI TRIED TO FRAME JULIAN ASSANGE
Breaking News: CIA report leaked; intel from source CURVEBALL provided to CIA via Ahmed Chalabi verifies Putin role in hacking DNC.
Yes, Ahmed Chalabi died of a heart attack in Nov 2015, but obviously that was a covert Russian assassination aimed at preventing exposure of their nefarious role.
Look, nobody believes this PR line about Russia controlling the U.S. elections, other than some brainwashed media consumers, mostly baby boomers I imagine. So what’s the real agenda?
1) This could all be about internal Democratic Party politics. The Clinton Democrats trying to hold onto their positions of power in the Democratic Party, at the DNC and in the House and Senate. They’re desperately trying to blame their massive failure in the past election on anything other than their own corruption and dishonesty, in order to block the Bernie Sanders Democrats who are trying to take over leadership of the party. Part of that strategy to preserve power is to blame their debacle on Putin, but only the brainwashed would buy that.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/scramble-for-control-of-the-democratic-party-rages-231242
2) The CIA is worried about exposure of their covert activities in Libya and Syria under a Trump Administration, and so are trying to get their talking points in first. There’s the issue of Libyan weapons being transferred to Islamic terror groups in Syria, likely including sarin chemical weapons that could have been used in the infamous 2013 chemical weapons attacks that were supposed to result in a causus belli for a NATO assault on Syria. There’s the issue of training camps run by the CIA in Jordan and Turkey that fed fighters and weapons to Al Qaeda and ISIS forces. There’s the issue of how CIA-trained and supported forces ended up fighting Pentagon-backed Kurdish forces:
london review o books –
/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line
reuters –
/article/us-syria-crisis-rebels-usa-idUSBRE9290FI20130310
latimes –
/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story
One fact that supports this narrative is the leading role being played by pro-Clinton Democrats on the House and Senate Intelligence committees in boosting the “Russia did it narrative”; they also have close relationships with CIA lobbyists, who have their own reasons for undermining the Trump Administration and preventing exposure of their activities in Syria. I’d say that’s the real agenda behind this propaganda blitz.
At The Nation, audio of Stephen Cohen’s and John Batchelor’s latest installment on the new cold war.
Snippets from the summary:
“Putin is Waging Information Warfare. Here’s How to Fight Back,” on nytimes.com. PropOrNot?
Some excerpts:
“Global finance is still gangsters and the spooks’ best friend, allowing them to secretly move and spend money.” Uncommon candor.
“[B]y putting pressure on American states with notoriously tough secrecy laws, Washington would make it harder for not just
corrupt Russians officials but also Moscow’s security apparatus to spend money at will in America.” These states know exactly who they are.
“Media owners whose networks spread disinformation, members of
Parliament who cultivate extremists, and oligarchs who allow themselves to be used as Kremlin front men should all be fair game. Treating them like members of an organized crime syndicate would allow Washington to freeze not only their assets, but also those of their families, and bar them from entry.”
“[W]e should stop building [Putin] up by portraying him as a virtual supervillain.” OK, you first.
Translation: Persecute anyone who doesn’t go along with establishment propaganda.
OK, so if we cannot find out who leaked information about the DNC hacking then we should just gut the entire CIA management team. Fire everyone or have someone leak who leaked the information. This is something that really destroys any credibility of the entire CIA. I would prefer to eliminate the entire organization and start over again rather then have a corrupt organization.
criminal minds in the white house now calling Trump a collaborator for russia
“There’s ample evidence that was known long before the election and in most cases long before October about the Trump campaign and Russia — everything from the Republican nominee himself calling on Russia to hack his opponent,” Earnest said.
Josh Earnest – a zion who supports the israeli yinon plan – is doubling down on the cia+dnc operation “russia-did-it” in an effort to have israel influence – actually dictate – the election in the US.
Last week, a Brit spy chief warned that Russian actions may be a threat to british security. This would imply that Russia should stop fighting terrorists. Brilliant. Yet today
Russia has beaten ISIS in syria and is now fighting them at home.
Russia did what? The real people on the planet are aware that Hellary and the CIA were arming the terrorists. The threat to the brits is the US perpetrating the conflict. Given that Hellary was behind the effort to influence a political status in syria (and iraq and libya), it would be in the best interest of both Russia and Britain if Hellary’s secret plans for illegally arming terrorists was known.
Perhaps Josh Earnest is not aware of that.
U.S. professor of Russian history: Stephen Cohen calls out liberal media for demonizing Russia, slurring Tillerson and stigmatizing all dissent
“Your career is damaged if you don’t spout the party line.” As Yakov Smirnoff put it, “America, whadda country” – we’ve become.
And to think, it’s the “liberals” making this McCarthyism so.
I consider Stephen Cohen to be intellectually fraudulent.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/16/meet-stephen-f-cohen-vladimir-putin-s-best-friend-in-the-american-media.html
That’s why he is in not published in MSM. In his defense of Putin he always highlights NATO’s aggression in eastern Europe and never Putin’s awful record in human rights
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/Russia
or Putin’s support for right wing parties and other factions that fit in with his agenda to destabilize and weaken the EU and US under the false banner of anti-globalization.
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-russia-separatists-snap-story.html
It’s disheartening to see people here who in their fervor to explain this whole mess with a “deep state” anti-Russian conspiracy become apologists for authoritarians of Putin’s sort. Is this how normalization of our own twitter dictator begins?
I clicked your first link, saw it was written by Cathy Young, and declined to read it. If Young reviles him, that’s reason enough to seriously consider Cohen’s arguments.
Right, no branded voices allowed in the echo chamber.
Seriously, I think it’s a mistake to not read the link you dismiss: the article shows how vulnerable anyone is to slip into normalizing an autocrat and I for one don’t want to make that mistake nowadays.
Cathy Young lost me years ago; when I still identified as a libertarian she drove me batshit. She’s a hack.
Stephen Cohen provides the Russian point of view. It’s equally as evil as the U.S. point of view. Two sides of the same evil coin really. But it’s a good thing that the world has Putin who won’t cave to U.S. imperialism and is macho enough to stand up to the U.S. BS. While Russia is no match for the U.S. if it were to ever come to war (assuming nukes aren’t used), it at least provides some substantial resistance. Either of these countries left alone to rampage without any opposition would be a very bad thing, which is basically what has happened in the Middle East since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Now that Russia has a lead with some huevos, it finally stood up to the U.S. in Syria.
Remember when Crowdstrike told us that North Korea hacked Sony….
Crowdstrike founder worked for the Atlantic Counsel think tank, which has a long history of being anti-Russia.
Thanks for that bit about Crowdstrike and the Sony Korea hack. The Atlantic Counsel Think Tank.
I’m still having a hard time understanding why TPTB refuse to disclose evidence supporting a Russo Cyber Incursion (investigative techniques) when Bill Bonney paints such a clear picture…
…The retired intelligence analyst also noted that traceroute packets are embedded in hundreds of switchers around the world, and that email messages are easily traced.
“With all the billions of dollars we spend on this collection access system that the NSA has, there’s no way that could have missed all the packets being transferred from those servers to the Russians,” Binney said.
“I mean, they should know exactly how and when those packets left those servers and went to the Russians, and where specifically in Russia it went. There’s no excuse for not knowing that.”
If it was a hack, Binney reveals, the NSA would know who the sender and recipients of the data are, thanks to mass internet surveillance programs. The intelligence apparatus does not depend on “circumstantial evidence,” as has been reported.
“My point is really pretty simple. There should be no guessing here at all, they should be able to show the traceroutes of all the packets, or some of them anyways, going to the Russians and then from the Russians to WikiLeaks,” Binney explained. “There is no excuse for not being able to do that — and that would be the basic evidence to prove it.
Otherwise, it could be any hacker in the world, or any other government in the world, who knows.”
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/us/201612141048568197-nsa-whistleblower-binney-cia-lying-russia/
This thread is so sad it makes the discussion at infowars seem intellectual!
This is what the elite establishment criminals are really concerned about and hoping doesnt get any public attention. This is the thread of the sweater. Someone out there knows more. My observation is that this was a CIA joint operation and they are deathly afraid that Trump is going to find out.
Shock report reveals 9/11 Building 7 DID NOT collapse because of fire | World | News | Daily Express
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/736223/9-11-tower-Building-7-collapse-fire-conspiracy
Masochism becomes you, Flapjack..
You two windbags were made for one another.
Nate
“…….And you [Nate] expose yourself once again as another Mona Holland enabler…..” my entry in brackets
I knew it! And it took the Research and Analysis wing of Indian Intelligence to finally expose you as a Mona “enabler”.
LOL…..that’s just way too funny! Thanks!!
These threads are great for entertainment. Merry Christmas Galactus!
The gig is up apparently.
sniffle
I guess I’ll move onto enabling TI’s other intrepid commenters such as dahoit, Stan, and barabbas.
You are one of these. For you to label me “irrational” is like a Nazi calling a human rights activist mean.
Thank God tRumpeters have such a low bar. Otherwise there might be real reasons to wonder why they blindly trust one government agency over another. Huh!
Biddle may yet become an actual human being the longer he associates with true patriots like Glenn Greenwald and not frivolous turds like Nick Denton.
NBC is reporting more whispers from anonymous officials, now saying that Putin personally directed the leaks. That just sounds like complete bullshit (i.e. fake news, entirely fabricated.)
And behold, all the “liberal” Democrats who now think anonymous CIA officials are the font of all Truth. Without a whit of evidence for their claims.
Becasue if there is one entity on planet Earth with an untarnished reputation for probity and consistent truth-telling, that would be the CIA. pffft
“……Without a whit of evidence for their claims……”
Simply not true Mona. The evidence may not reach the level of a conviction in a courtroom, but the evidence is substantial. When the alleged “leaker” known to Assange and Murray comes forward, that could change everything. By the way, there are good reasons that the CIA desires to maintain their credibility – especially with a new, incoming President. They are professional liars, not professional idiots.
Thanks.
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
It doesn’t matter whether you respond or not.
“Without a whit”,
means not a bit,
and that claim,
is pure bullshit!
Thanks.
Even though the CIA is sometimes depicted as this rogue agency made up of psychopaths who run around without supervision, it’s nothing more than an arm of the US executive. They follow orders. Indeed, what do you wanna bet their story changes substantially once Trump is in power? You’ll see completely different leaks from it.
“……..Even though the CIA is sometimes depicted as this rogue agency made up of psychopaths who run around without supervision, it’s nothing more than an arm of the US executive……”
Let’s hope so!
My BS meter was really pegged on this one. Wikileaks points out that one of the authors of the report is Ken Dilanian.
Why would the CIA lie to harm their new boss, Donald Trump? The tea leaves we mere citizens are forced to read don’t portend the CIA lying this time.
I just don’t believe the CIA would lie to curry favor with the Democrats, who are heading into the political wilderness. Nor do I think the CIA is hung up on harming Russia, not to the extent of risking the agency’s relationship with Donald Trump.
Donald Trump is not their boss yet. If they leaked to harm Obama, they could be in trouble. With Trump, that’s basically a gamble.
There are many ways to look at the interests involved. Institutionally, the CIA’s budget and relevance depends on conflict with foreign powers. Others point out that it appears some parts of the establishment are at war with other parts, over Trump.
Its really hard for the average voter to wrap his brain around this so lets go back to the basics of the campaign. The crooked media was completly out of control about Trump. Lie after lie came out and probably had more to do with the election results than anyone. thats far more disrupting to me the than podesta’s email leaks which happen to be true. If the democrats didnt play so dirty in politics nobody would of leaked the emails. Republican emails where probably about how the elites hated Trump and schemed to make him loose and everyone already knew that so no scandal there.
Whats that old saying “if you make your bed thsn lie in it” looks like the dems pooped in there bed and they cant handle there own smell.
I thought a federal judge ruled that CO electors must vote the way the state voted and if they tried to vote someoe else they were to be replaced immediately by someone who would.
The federal judge says that electors cannot disenfranchise the voters of there state.
It seams to me that in every election lawsuit that the judge’s have always rulled in favor of the voter in keeping polls open because of a long line or every vote counts. So we know this, every citizen gets to vote and there vote will be counted and if the voters picked someone and the results have been verified by the state. Then the elector must vote by the way the state voted. No judge will let a elector do anything else.
The Votet wins always
It is very significant that,
to pseudo-doctor Sam Biddle,
Assange is the person he promotes as being mentally unstable
while the plethora of delusional manipulating liars
in the so-called government and its corporate media mouthpieces
of the faking U$A are apparently diagnosed as
being mentally stable by him.
The reason these ardent allegations of foreign manipulations
are accepted and trumpeted as terrifyingly real is because
nobody on this planet believes more ardently in using such methods
on others around the planet
than do those who identify as democrats and republicans.
1. There is NO credible evidence of Russian involvement, governmental or otherwise. John Podesta lost his cell phone and couldn’t even be bothered to change his passwords. Anyone finding it and realizing what he or she had could have passed the information on to Wikileaks. Hell, Coleen Rowley even has suggested that the NSA knows more than it’s telling, as I believe Glenn Greenwald has speculated.
2. What’s with your beef against Wikileaks? Pissy because they scooped you on the emails, or what?
Money Laundering Scheme Exposed: 14 Pro-Clinton Super PACs and Non-Profits Implicated
http://www.thecitizensaudit.com/2016/09/19/money-laundering-david-brock/
EXCLUSIVE: FBI New York Field Office Told To Continue Clinton Foundation Probe
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/14/exclusive-fbi-new-york-field-office-told-to-continue-clinton-foundation-probe/#ixzz4SuWU8mKH
A very well written article, nicely portrayed with good logic and reason. I am somewhat removed from the US election (being British) but I have been following all of this very closely. One thing that really stands out is the CONTENT of the hacked (or leaked) podesta emails. Regardless of who hacked (or leaked) the DNC emails, the content showed the TRUE inner workings of the top level DNC and Hillary’s campaign. That alone lost her the election and rightly so as it is disgusting and is the exact kind of behaviour that needs to get “drained”, to quote your President-elect, in worldwide politics.
Will Trump act in exactly the same way?..perhaps. Is he morally better than Hillary?…absolutely not. But the fact is Hillary got caught and Trump didn’t so unfortunately you have to make the best of what you are left with.
The fact that the “liberals” are willing to overlook the content of these emails just because it is possible that an old nemesis may have leaked them, is itself shocking!!
Benghazi, private servers, lies to congress. That in itself should exclude Hillary from being elected the most powerful leader on the planet. Again, people seem willing to ignore it. **Jaw dropped**.
Besides, there have been enough lying politicians as President that generally get nothing done. Why not let a lying businessman give it a go?..He might actually get a few results.
Only time will tell. Good luck to you all.
When they first started coming out, the DNC emails were said to be leaks…. But now they’re hacked…. Bullshit.
Assuming a Russian speaker involved indicates Russia is ludicrous. 30% of Ukraine’s population speaks Russian as their 1st language, most of the rest speak Russian as their 2nd language. Over 30% of Latvians speak Russian at home. Russian is spoken by significant portions of the populace throughout the central Asian republics of the former Soviet Union. Russian is the 1st language of 70% of Belarus. Millions speak Russian exterior to Russia. What a piece of crap for evidence. Any intelligence agency in the world could be behind the hacks, particularly Latvia and Ukraine, each with an ax to grind with Putin. A third party being a ‘just a bit’ sloppy to indicate Russia/Russians and give the Russophobes in the USA something to latch onto for propaganda purposes, is probably a more reasonable speculation than any of the assertions coming from the Americans. What’s more is, if the CIA hasn’t cleaned up its act since disgruntled CIA officer John Stockwell had penned his exposé ‘In Search of Enemies’, and almost certainly the CIA has not, it could as easily be the CIA itself had laundered the hacks through a third party precisely for purposes of information operation aimed at a clique in the national security apparatus they’re contesting. In my estimation, the greatest likely-hood is we’re witnessing an inside turf war play out in msm media the CIA has had a cozy relationship with for a very long time:
“Contrary to the notion that the CIA insidiously infiltrated the journalistic community, there is ample evidence that America’s leading publishers and news executives allowed themselves and their organizations to become handmaidens to the intelligence services”
“There is quite an incredible spread of relationships. You don’t need to manipulate Time magazine, for example, because there are [Central Intelligence] Agency people at the management level.” -William B. Bader, former CIA intelligence officer, briefing members of the Senate Intelligence Committee
“The Agency’s relationship with [The New York] Times was by far its most valuable among newspapers, according to CIA officials. [It was] general Times policy … to provide assistance to the CIA whenever possible.”
Preceding quotes from ‘CIA and the Media’ by Carl Bernstein
I couldn’t agree more.
In addition to what you have already said, more than backing his own statements and clinical diagnose, I would love to hear Biddle’s definition of “reality” and “credibility”. We have already been schooled about what “ethical journalism”, “journalism”, … entail.
RCL
There is no flipping way that Guccifer 2.0 is Russian. If you’re using Google translate, it’ll never, ever show you the “slang” form of the verb to be, which is what G2 uses. Yah, his brief use of Romanian is a little off/weird, but I spend every day of my life chatting with Romanians in a mixture of Romanian and English, and his whole cadence is entirely Romanian (not Moldovan!). The only thing that stood out was he used the word “glorify” which is pretty damn rare for Romanians to know/use that word.
Long story short, the PUBLIC case that Russia is behind the hacking is weak as hell.
How many CIA agents know Russian?
This knowing Russian part of the “evidence” is not worth rebutting.
People wanted to see Hillary’s Wall St speeches, etc. Thanks, whoever.
Also, Isn’t THIS more unfair towards altering our democracy’s election outcomes:
(Potentially over a million legit minority votes secretly suppressed in battleground states by the GOP.. under cover of “Crosscheck” and other strategies, likely handing the election to Trump and the other Republicans. But why aren’t the Democrats and big-moneyed media talking about it? Investigative reporter Greg Palast-
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
Evidence schmevidence. Enough is enough.
I coudnt care LESS if Russia provided us with valuable information illegally or legally! What I and millions of others DO care about is the corruption and election rigging that was revealed at the DNC and is being ignored! Don’t shoot the messenger as they say but investigate what was done to Bernie Sanders by the DNC!
As a neutral observer might I suggest that some Bernie Sanders supporting youngsters might have hacked the DNC in order to prove something fishy was going on in the democratic primaries. Waiting for Trump to give us the proof after his inauguration !
Voice from Europe
“…….As a neutral observer might I suggest that some Bernie Sanders supporting youngsters might have hacked the DNC in order to prove something fishy was going on in the democratic primaries……”
Just happened to go by Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear? Would you happen to be from the west side of Europe…..or the east side?
Definitely from the west side…..and it seems I shouldn’t have used the word ‘hacked’ but rather the verb ‘leaked’. Just read the conclusion of the veterans of intelligence…
Nowhere in anything that I’ve read about this situation is it argued that if the folks in the DNC were honest, the leaks wouldn’t be a problem.
That’s true Nete. If your bank account is empty, you can’t be robbed. However, there can still be a charge of attempted robbery……
they still have their lies on emails, nobody has robbed them of anything. and now everybody else can see their lies too! it’s like the miracle of the loaves and fishes.
“What we’re looking at now is the distinct possibility that the United States will consider military retaliation (digital or otherwise) against Russia”
Err… What if those acts ARE Russian retaliation against US cyber attacks? Or perhaps retaliation against a certain state sponsored fascist coup d’État in Ukraine? I would find hard to believe that the US, The most powerful military in the world, doesn’t engage in hacking… Oh, I forgot, they do! The Intercept was founded on the back of the discovery of hacking on an industrial scale by thevUS and allies.
Here is my take on this what can only be described as a CIA provocation or a new reincarnation Red-Biting from McCarthy communist witch-hunt hysteria.
Having said that, what is really sad that this obvious CIA false flag op underlying MSM anti-Russian hysteria [new reincarnation of Mockingbird Operation] and WaPo slanderous piece based on ProPornOt fake website seems to be working somewhat. American sheeple seem to be biting the sh..t and gorge themselves on it again like in old Joe McCarthy days where millions voluntarily enlisted to search for card-carrying commie bogymen under their beds.
Old Joe McCarthy method from beyond his grave, used by a fake CIA Putin slanderous leak, already utterly repudiated by former CIA and NSA executives as baseless, rejected by current FBI and NSA experts as containing groundless conclusions with completely absent evidenciary support after they read secret CIA report in its entirety. That should have close the case.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/
But it did not. Hard facts completely repudiating the CIA anonymous claim did not matter for MSM propaganda machine.
So what is this all about? Surely not about finding out the truth.
Some are picking up a the false narrative of MSM propaganda and lies that this is all about Russian influence on the US elections when massive MSM media machine was unified and about three months before elections became a monolithic propaganda tube for Hillary in a soviet “Pravda” style of single voice of Trump condemnation even examining Ivankas sexual life as teenager and her racial and sexual preferences. When top 100 newspapers in the US endorsed Hillary, some the first time in 100 years endorsed a Democrat it became clear that the claim of politically diverse MSM media in the US is a utter fallacy, and instead we have Orwellian propaganda outfits under unified commend and control of political establishment and her oligarchic supporters influence peddling and backing single candidate Hillary.
In fact it is not even about that, nothing even close to it.
And certainly it is not about suppose ulterior motivation driven propaganda of “external” [read Russian] influence on the US politicians and political process via network of spies and allegedly associated with them independent websites, knowing well that American political process for long decades is bought and sold by foreigners [running numerous networks of websites and supported by an army of lobbyists with well know ties with foreign intelligence community] namely Israelis and their extortionist outfit AIPAC, as well as Saudis, EU, Japan even China during Bill Clinton years when a later convicted Chinese spy paid for a night in Lincoln bedroom, and more, buying for pennies on a dollar all American politicians wholesale every elections and by that often pushing US into senseless wars, enormous expenditures and economic losses.
Let’s not be fooled by such a straw-man arguments.
It is all about new McCarthyism, new campaign of terror and blank, baseless grave accusations against anyone who dares to question supposedly official, MSM spewed stories, viscous campaign of alienation of journalists from their readership under cloud of criminality, spying and FBI investigation against those who do not peddle official narratives who are not buying utter nonsense and who do not draw absurd conclusions based on lies and innuendos without any shred of evidence.
The basic goal of provocateurs is that we accept evidence-free McCarthyite slanderous construct of enemy of America. Only because they say so. Once we accept their lies and their arbitrary determination of who are American enemies we give them credibility and accusatory power, power to accuse anyone of anything since in our own mind anyone behavior or opinions could be consistent with what our enemy would have done or thought, releasing us from a rigor of rational analysis and necessity of evidence based conclusion that is a foundation of any moral judgment.
That’s the real danger of this new McCarthyism to American way of life, a for capable of tearing fabric of our society and a direct threat to social order.
the amount of drugs flowing into the US has a logistics problem
the quantities are large and regular and persist
this requires a dependable regular protected operation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
this kind of monopoly and money has to be intoxicating
the meeting between bill and loretta has to be interesting
my educated guess, the cia is calling the shots
presidents come and go, they remain
it’s like – “oh, so you’re the new president? welcome to the cia”
Quick reminder: how Hellary wanted doctored Palestinian elections.
Unearthed tape: ‘We should have made sure that we did something to determine who was going to win’
http://observer.com/2016/10/2006-audio-emerges-of-hillary-clinton-proposing-rigging-palestine-election/
What goes around…
White privilege, much?
Stupid Americans.
Vladmir Putin is not your friend.
Donald Trump is not your friend.
The Republican party is not your friend.
Julian Assange is not your friend.
The more these people act in concert with one another, the less credibility they have.
You do not fix anything by breaking it.
Interesting about Putin not being our friend (the US that is). Putin agrees. Sorta bizarre how few people actually bother to read or listen to what he has said. But here is video of Putin going 1on1 with some German journalists. They ask Putin is if he is a friend. Putin answers to the effect that “I am not a friend, bride or groom, I am the President of the Russian Federation.” An awfully mature take. He says relations between nations are not the same as individuals. Amazing. Leaders of countries pursue the best interests of their countries. Americans treat international relationships like “mean girls”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCPYCXMxrZU
It is quite astonishing how such a simple concept as national interests perplexes Americans.
I suspect they’ve been told so long that government is the enemy they cannot accept that the US government tries to protect American interests.
Or perhaps after selling the government to commercial interests, national interests no longer apply.
In any case it’s also quite astonishing to see the establishment, now in the guise of Trump and the Republicans, defend Russia and by slightly dismissive criticism, defend Trump and the alt-right.
And even worse, the upstart dissidents here at the Intercept buy into this Russian agenda. They should know better yet clearly they don’t.
hilary clinton is not your friend.
the dnc is not your friend.
barack obama is not your friend.
the washington post is not your friend.
the new york times is not your friend.
the cia is not your friend.
the more these people act in concert with one another, the less credibility they have.
in determining which of america’s many nonfriends is acting against its interests, it is helpful to have evidence. you don’t fix anything by blaming a foreign country with nuclear weapons for an act of war, without evidence. we didn’t fix iraq by invading it on false pretenses. remember the maine, and the gulf of tonkin, as well.
I suspect that in the nuclear age, the only war that matters is that which begins with firing missiles.
Everything else is just propaganda.
I doubt that Putin will fire his nukes because of his hurt feelings.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for this clown:
oIII
I’m a friend to man, milt’mello.
Trump made a strategic mistake soon after November 8 when he let off the Clintons saying they were good people etc and that he would not push for an investigation into Hillary Clinton’s email server and the Clinton Foundation corruption.
Trump must have thought he was mending bridges etc., but he has really laid down his weapons while the CIA backed Clinton-Obama camp continue to go after Trump in attempts to de-legitimize him and neutralize his Presidency.
He should reopen the Clinton issue and the attacks against him will probably subside.
According to the incorrigle Clintonbot Mathew Rosza (him and Amanda Marcotte seem joined at the hip on the Queen Clinton issue, Salon), some are willing to mess with the EC to stop Trumeldore:
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/14/the-race-to-37-electoral-college-members-say-theyre-seeing-possible-defections/
If the evil Russkies did have anything to do with the ‘hacks’, then Rasputin must be laughing very loud bellylaughs, indeed…
Mwhahahahaha…
These people whether you want to call them pro-Hillary, anti-Donald, or whatever, are so blinded by hatred of Trump that they cannot see the day after if the Electoral College would not follow state results.
They’re willing to destroy what little’s left of U$A ‘democracy’ to scupper Trump, whom they call an ‘autocrat’.
Irony is wasted on these people…
Electronic hacking is international.
CrookdClintons do all this to make us forget THEIR DISHONESTIES ove rall these years.
It is a relief tonot hear of the dishonest CrookedClinton peripecies!!
Fresh air!
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/14/505592238/cybersecurity-firm-confirms-russian-hackers-breached-the-dnc
On National Liberal Radio today, a CrowdStrike co-founder described to Audie Cornish (you can’t make these names up) how he installed software on all the DNC’s device to observe Russians in the act in real time.
Instead of stopping the incursions.
Damn fine job, Sam.
What I do not understand is that every article on this subject omits the direct statement of former UK ambassador Craig Murray, who is involved with Wikileaks, who flatly states the released emails, etc., originated as a leak by an insider in Washington in September, NOT owing to a heist from outside by anyone including “state actors”:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2402327/ex-brit-ambassador-turned-wikileaks-envoy-slams-cia-theory-russia-hacked-clinton-campaign-emails-claiming-sources-were-disgusted-members-of-her-own-democratic-party/
The really compelling thing about his statement is that he says he MET the person who turned over these documents, who is an insider.
How is this vital — and far more concrete evidence — being studiously ignored as this “story” rattles around like a rock in a rusty tin can?
And how can the CIA persist in this line of assumptions when that direct statement rules out any possibility that their theories are correct?
You said: “Guesswork and assumption could be disastrous.”
Yes, and that appears to be the plan.
Because Craig Murray is a person of integrity, thus by definition in the high stakes ‘new Great Game’… “Not a Good Guy”. Doesn’t play by the agreed rules, you see…
Well, hey, if he said it, then it’s true. Let’s only demand evidence for things that we don’t like, and embrace baseless claims that we do.
Sorry, this comment was intended for @rrheard
Fake news, nothing to see here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-14/georgia-confirms-homeland-security-attempted-hack-election-database-10-separate-time
While I think this article’s focus on
the lack of real evidence
is appropriate,
I find the use of some terms
– “our democracy”
– “our presidential elections”
to be cloyingly ridiculous.
Also,
the underlying assumption that this whole tempest was not
created by agents within the faking U$A is also
very cloyingly untrustworthy.
Instead of this story becoming an appropriate indictment of the
blatant corruption of the fake political process, it has become
a rallying cry for more assumptions and corruption.
Who benefits? Certainly not anyone who is seeking transparency
in the political machinations of the faking U$A.
This whole thing smells like a set up.
Everything which makes this look as if it is connected to Russia
also makes it look like something created by those who spend
enormous time, energy, and manpower trying to infiltrate the
government agencies of Russia.
The withholding of real and unredacted evidence implies
its non-existence.
The “democracy” is only the progressive left’s second favorite word. “Folks” is their first.
Your heart is located on your left side– if you are like most humans.
Actually your heart is located pretty much right under your sternum in the middle of your chest and a tad to the left, which is why during CPR we are taught to feel the end of the sternum, place three fingers up then place the heel of one’s hand directly over the sternum with the other on top to deliver the compressions.
I can’t believe that this is taken seriously. It first came out in June, when the Democraps were desperately looking for something to deflect from the Wikileaks publications that they knew were coming. Then news of intelligence assessments was dripped out, mostly through Reuters, over the succeeding weeks and months. Kevin Drum of Mother Jones tells us that the Clinton team was begging people not to publish the Wikileaks documents (presumably on the basis on an appeal to patriotism). That didn’t work, even when they succeeded in getting the intel community (minus the FBI) to issue a formal statement in October. Now when everything has fallen apart they are trying to execute a coup. The people harming democracy here are not the Russians but Clinton and the Democraps.
Clinton only magically turned bad after her appt. to Sec. Of State. She wasn’t like that before.
Right, Mona and Jose?
You are a crank promoting all that idiocy about the Clintons murdering people, running drugs and other insane bullshit. You’ve been banned here numerous times for flooding the place with this nonsense. Go away.
your ignorance is showing, hall monitor, if you don’t know any of the REAL his story of arkansas in general, little rock in particular, the mobbed up connections of the clitons, mena, barry seals, etc, then you don’t know shit from shinola…
your self-appointed role as a mini-gatekeeper is annoying, this place could do without half your busybody scolding, bullshit assertions, and casual dismissal of any/all posters who dispute you…
This is what really happened in this recently departed presidential election and it has nothing intrinsically to do with Russia: White Americans associate government with helping poor people who aren’t like them, i.e. blacks and Hispanics, therefore they resent, if not altogether hate, what they perceive as government. Corporations, on the other hand, they subconsciously associate with white economic power and might, and when they can’t, as in the case of Asian ones, only then do they express anything approaching vehement anti-corporate criticism. It seems most white Americans would be satisfied (at least theoretically) living in a country of extremely shrunken government power and agency and totalizing corporate private power, which they subliminally associate with/view as the apex of white cultural, economic, political power—and surely they would not, in an inherently restricted sense, be wrong to do so, although for the majority of them sharing in that power would be largely, if not exclusively, vicarious.
Trump won because he outperformed with black and Hispanic voters compared to 2012. White vote was the same.
Good screed though.
His “outperformance” was academic and minimal: ‘Trump dominated white voters—as Republicans have usually done of late…Donald Trump captured slightly more of the minority vote share than Romney did. To be sure, by “slightly more” I mean “slightly less disastrously.” Trump captured 8 percent of the black vote, 29 percent of the Latino vote, and 29 percent of the Asian vote.’
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aviksaroy/2016/11/19/man-bites-dog-trump-did-better-with-minorities-than-mitt-romney-did-in-2012/#3065ac83b8b0
You mean the glove fits but they can’t find the receipt?
GMAFB
“There’s a lot of evidence from the attack on the table, mostly detailing how the hack was perpetrated, and possibly the language of the perpetrators. It certainly remains plausible that Russians hacked the DNC, and remains possible that Russia itself ordered it. But the refrain of Russian attribution has been repeated so regularly and so emphatically that it’s become easy to forget that no one has ever truly proven the claim.”
The author himself is guilty here of what he/ she complains of.
If the Russian govt did it and if they had the ability to cover their tracks, why didn’t they?
Could all this supposed evidence have been created by the CIA (or similar vested interest) in order to falsely attribute the leaks to the Russians and then contain Trump as being essentially a Russian agent?
Is this plausible? Is this possible? This the author does not address.
Taking this to the level that Russia has committed an act of warfare is excessive and reveals the biases of the author.
Even if Russia is ultimately responsible for leaking these emails, does this amount to rigging an election? Does it amount to warfare? Was Trump calling for Russia to wage war against the US when he publicly hoped that Russia would hack Hillary’s private server emails?
Meanwhile, Bill Binney calls CIA liars…..
https://sputniknews.com/us/201612141048568197-nsa-whistleblower-binney-cia-lying-russia/
…on a website officially approved by the Russian government.
What’s pleasing about this article is that it demonstrates what true skepticism is, as opposed to what sloppy journalists refer to as climate skepticism, which is merely unscientific and illogical denial.
Write back when your Climate ‘models’ can predict the ends of California’s droughts.
In the meantime:
_”CCGS Amundsen re-routed to Hudson Bay to help with heavy ice”_
“Worst ice conditions in 20 years force change of plans to icebreaker research program”
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/north/ccgs-amundsen-re-routed-to-hudson-bay-to-help-with-heavy-ice-1.3162900
So there is ice and cold weather so that means there isn’t climate change or global warming?
You’re not seriously that stupid, are you?
Just pray for rain already
Did they ever take any money? Organized crime involves the theft of credit cards and the buying and selling of malware. The obvious solution is to force an international cyber treaty. Cyber weapons are a lot like biological weapons because anyone can use them once they are in the open. There is evidence Putin directed this cyber attack but I feel that many in the CIA are more worried about an attack instead of an election. The FBI has already shown their hand and Trump is clearly biased so that does not give the CIA a lot of options to keep this apolitical while responding to an attack. If the CIA unleashes a cyber counter attack there is no guarantee those weapons and zero days will be plugged before they can be used against us.
Russia will go through its own transformation and the best we can hope for is that it is as peaceful as possible. They have always had a strong man as their leader whether it is a Czar, Premier or a President for life. They are one of the last remaining European colonial empires. Unfortunately we can no longer bribe people with blue jeans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6rSljTwdU&t=9m10s
I would like to see the author respond to the reporting by NBC News tonight (12/14/16) from high-level U. S. intelligence officials, based on human sources, that Putin was personally involved in deciding how to use the material stolen from the Democratic National Committee to influence the presidential election.
NYT wants you to liberate Syria like you liberated Libya:
_”Aleppo’s Destroyers: Assad, Putin, Iran”_
“More than 400,000 Syrians have died since the civil war began. When will it stop?”
As if it didn’t do a number on Bernie’s campaign too. Your Digital Subscriptions need renewing too, lefties.
I’ll believe the CIA’s account of the Russian hacking story when they also release their records on the countless times the USA has messed around in the internal affairs of other nations.
The CIA said they have more evidence, but can’t reveal it for fear of revealing their operational capabilities (which are probably illegal under international law).
Ironic justice would be served if they passed the evidence on to WikiLeaks through a third party. Boom!
The leaks only exposed the fact that the “Democratic” Primary was rigged against the politically and morally superior candidate, Bernie Sanders – which we all knew even before we had the proof.
So well-said, and that was the end there!
I haven’t read all the comments to see if this is mentioned. But first, it seems the capture of the data happened outside the United States if the claims are true. Wouldn’t the NSA have seen and noticed the huge data transfers from the US to Russia? And if they did, did they inform the FBI at least?
About the is U.S. Intelligence Community. I looked up the list and here is a link to the list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community
Just having a modicum of skepticism, how is that the Coast Guard and National Reconnaissance Office which engineers and builds satellites have expertise on how Russians hack email accounts using one of thee most used technique of phishing? I am guessing but would need an expert, but I doubt many of these agencies allow any outside access to the internet to prevent phishing for example.
Other questions which I believe are related. Why didn’t Putin release what they had during the primaries to push Sanders rather than Hillary–Sanders did not show the rabid militarism that Hillary showed. Trump or Sanders and Putin gets candidates much less belligerent than Clinton.
Regardless of who hacked, it seems the Russian accusation helped Clinton rather than Trump as the mass media did not focus on the content of the emails or speeches. From what I saw, by the third Wikileaks posting, the mass media was not even announcing them as news. In fact, Hillary was pronounced as the victim of an evil empire by all the major media way head of the election. Putin did not garner any blow to Clinton by all appearances. In fact, Putin/Russia was thee most talked about subject during the Presidential debates with constant attacks on Trump. Did Hillary really lose WI and MI because of anything revealed in the emails? Who from WI and MI actually bothered to read Wikileaks and changed their votes? Putin utterly failed is measured by the popular vote.
In regards to the community, isn’t the FBI the one who handles cybersecurity and counterintelligence?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/11/politics/russia-hacking-conclusions-donald-trump/
They say the opposite of the CIA. I trust them.
Yah true. Why is the CIA involved? But there does seem to be an emerging attack on the FBI about some of the doubts they had. The claim is that when the FBI investigates, it is looking to build a legal case that can be prosecuted. The implication is that they over-did it and their ability to make the correct conclusion was compromised by their methods.
the cia is involved because they have been shadowing the clintons since arkansas. drugs and drug money. it is starting to appear as if the cia is the biggest drug operation on the planet – educated guess.
Have to agree. From the beginning, the leaks were cast by HRC as Trump Treason to try to change the subject – people were told it was even illegal to read the leaks, and they were even characterized as being fabrications rather than “stolen.”
BTW, “stolen” is a loaded term that is meaningless in connection with leaks, which all parties including government make use of selectively. When information is leaked, it’s not stolen because the original information resides where it always has, still owned and in place. What has happened, is that information kept secret because it would be damaging to someone were it known by the public, has been revealed or disclosed, without altering the original in any way.
This is simply a major case of “soreloserwoman” at the wholly unexpected event of losing what was seen as guaranteed – an entitlement – that anything other than the coronation as the most powerful person in the world must, by definition, be a crime and High Treason. That is some sense of entitlement, punctured after being told that the certainty of inheriting the position was 95%.
There is a lot of hubris and an arrogance of entitlement around her. It is almost like this whole mounting hysteria over Russia is a projection of an angry unleashed ID which has been taken up by her supporters and the media. There is that video of her hectoring and lecturing union workers over why isn’t she winning by 50%. Her tone is one of an angry mistress berating her servants for sloth. It is no surprise she did not go out to thank the wee-people after it was known she lost the Oval Office, and that later she planned a gala with rich supporters (at a hotel which I believe is non-unionized). Now again with the hysteria: if she can’t have the Oval Office, then we can’t have our democracy–we need the CIA acting as the paternal overseer for our own good.
I actually question the motives of The Intercept and Greenwald. It seems to me that during the election they devoted far more time to emails than to the countless examples of Trump’s corruption and malfeasance. And now, they greet every report about Russian hacking with doubt, denial and outright snark.
So what is it? Are they genuinely just trying to hold news media and the Democrats accountable or is it some kind of hidden bias they have in favor of Trump? Or could it be even more petty, like a desperate attempt to stay relevant when they’ve been mostly overshadowed by the mainstream media they always seem to delight in excoriating?
Thanks for the context & explanation. I am computer literate, not computer savvy. I am wondering how I will explain it to my Blue- Dog lib’s (77 yr. old mom). She is sure the Russians must be stopped. She is an MSNBC junkie…ugh…So mad today that I mentioned ISIS forces might be in Syria, ” MSNBC didn’t say that!” I will get her a laptop for X-mas…Can’t wait to read your articles, and the comments which are also informative & funny & smart.
Does this mean The Intercept is turning on Wikileaks? They seemed to be pretty big defenders of them in the past but this article I am not sure if the writer is being facetious or what.
No, it just means that different writers at The Intercept have different viewpoints. That’s been apparent for a while, and it’s perfectly fine in my opinion.
Bernie and Hillary supporters want Assange silenced. This is the criminal they almost got into power again:
_”The Clinton Chronicles”_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
Oh, fer shur. The lunatics behind “The Clinton Chronicles”:
Murder! Drug smuggling! Yeah, when one thinks Clinton, one should think coke rings and gangland offings of private investigators.
Because there are no real bad things the Clintons have done so it’s super awesome to promote deranged bullshit to dilute and detract from those actual bad things.
Stick with the New York Times, Mona, your self-described goto for authentic news.
Or the Benghazi bullshit. The woman laughed like a sociopath after she had a head of state killed with zero due process. There’s no need to make stuff up.
Exactly. Its’ harmful to be pushing unhinged conspiracy theories about the Clintons, for at least two reasons.
First, a lot of this crap from the 90s — Vince Foster, murders of various people, criminal rings — generated a lot of sympathy for Hillary Clinton, who really was horrifically and unfairly attacked in that decade.
Second, it allows Clinton supporters to dismiss all critiques of her as of a piece with the paranoid bullshit.
You think Larry Nichols is making stuff up? You think Flowers’s lawyer, Gary Johnson, beaten to a pulp and left for dead, is making things up?
Snopes has dealt with this nonsense.
A good portion of it is public record. Progressives’ Snopes has a bad habit of legitimizing almost everything it attempts to “debunk.”
Your tireless repeating of Vince Foster proves you never saw the documentary, yet insist on commenting on something you know nothing about, true to form.
You are, after all, the commentator who insisted Luke Rudkowski wasn’t a Truther, until somebody clued you in. Stick to your NY Times.
Satanic pedophile rings! Lolita expresses! A woman plagued by “mysterious affictions!” Secret Muslims!
It’s where Communete lives: in a basement well below InfoWars…
as bill promoted party favors, and did the lawyerly moves as any office politician would, he was needed, protected and promoted by someone/s else. Tip of the iceberg. Kathleen Kane, AG PA, tripped across the network and, knowing the complications of social media, they pulled her license faster than you can tie your shoes. Then tried her, and guiltified her.
How many elections and governments has the CIA overthrown with their illicit communications? No one should believe a syllable that the CIA spews.
I’m sure the USA has at least tried to hack and swing Russian elections, that is what they are paid to do.
What info that was revealed by wikileaks was untrue? Nothing!
It is so simple…the Democrats got caught right before their sacred convention being what they are” cheats and liars” just like the Republicans.
So what else would you expect them to do but put the blame on somebody else, and why would they not use the standard go to villain…Russia?
Did you really expect the Democrats to say “Father I cannot tell a lie it was I who chopped down the cherry tree”?
The whole thing is just a major distraction otherwise the corporate media might accidently touch on a real issue.
“Russian hacked folks. Folks were hacked. This will be news for months maybe years to come for folks. The election for folks was illegitimate.” -the establishment corporate progressive left
Nice article, really. Too bad it’s not asking once the obvious question, I mean, the elephant in the room whenever the letters CIA are uttered: and what if that flimsy circumstantial evidence was planted by CIA operators for anyone else to find?
Haven’t they been found guilty of such practices in the past? Don’t they have an obvious motive, as highlighted by their recent bias in favor of Clinton? Who would find out if the CIA itself is in charge of the investigation?
…?
Frankly, those bread crumbs and footprints could have been left by any semi-competent attacker who wanted to direct attention to Russia or Russians.
It just isn’t that hard.
Now, why would the CIA do it? Because rogue elements in The Company are itching for enhanced confrontation(s) with Russia? Not impossible. Dumb as a box of rocks, but not impossible.
It’s not like there weren’t rogue elements in the Pentagon recently itching for enhanced confrontation with Russia over Syria, against their commander in chief’s orders… Dumb as a box of rocks, I agree, though definitely probable as one cannot imagine such warring faction limited to the sole military.
Oh Intercept, I feel for you. For a website that prides itself for providing adversarial journalism that speaks truth to state power, it must be terrifying to come face to face with the possibility of having been played by (another) state power. That’s the risk you run when you question identity and motivations of those behind the leaks of your adversary state, but not those of anonymous leakers that impugn the state you are an adversary of. But if you admit the possibility, like the NYT did, there’s a chance it might make you feel better. Try it. Bernie 2020!
Well, Greenwald is a believer in openly partisan journalism and a critic of objectivity and neutrality. The problem with taking sides is that the side you take is not always the side you think it is.
I don’t get your point. What is an adversary state for TI?
Evidence doesn’t matter; the narrative is what matters, and the narrative is designed to delegitimize Donald Trump’s presidency or, in a pipe dream of all pipe dreams, to influence a sufficient number of electors bound to Donald Trump to violate their oaths and vote instead for someone else. Sadly for proglydites, evidence is the last thing they are concerned with.
Sorry for confusing your name in previous comment, Sam. Great article!
In essence:
– The leaders of the free world are leading the war against transparency.
– Those trying to avert a world war are being labelled as traitors and criminals.
All with full support from mainstream media.
Now .. what can people who want to live in peace do?
they wanted a war
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/736223/9-11-tower-Building-7-collapse-fire-conspiracy
ecommcon
Help ship Chelsea to distribute cookies in Ukraine and never come back?
1. Provide new guards for their future security.
2. Refuse to vote for anyone backing the CIA lies.
3. Boycott any companies that backed the CIA.
Even this piece ignores the fact that even the CIA doesn’t say the election was hacked, only that information the New Dems wanted to keep hidden at all costs, such as the derailing of the Sanders campaign, was released for scrutiny. Neither do they deny the authenticity of the emails. “The Russians did it!” served the New Dems as an effective way to save their convention, threatened by the exposure of the emails one day prior to it’s beginning, but the continuing ambiguity of the accusations is troubling, and all they did, if anything, was disclose dishonesty and dirty tricks on the part of the DNC and the Clinton campaign.
Granted, he was American, but it’s like accusing the Watergate guard who busted the guys who broke into DNC headquarters instead of the intruders. And there seems to be no proof these hackers weren’t American also. If there is, we should hear about it.
Why do leftists want to invade Syria too? Didn’t Libya teach progressive voters anything?
As you have so brilliantly exposed, most leftists are under Satanic mind control courtesy of the Illuminati.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clintons-uncanny-fulfillment-of-israels-yinon-plan-for-a-middle-east-riven-with-conflict/5541918
who is Oded Yinon?
Jesus loves GlobalResearch,ca despite their incredibly conspiracy-based bullshit.
If Jesus cant help you, maybe this can.
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/14/497860/Palestine-Israel-Negotiation-Ramini
have a J day.
That specific piece is quite good, but I seldom, if ever, post links to Global Research. They just too often go off the deep end with unreliable crap. It is too bad, because the often do have decent articles, such as that one.
Snowflakes don’t want to invade anybody.
They want for rednecks to go and die for whatever bullshit comes to their college educated uber mensch minds.
https://youtu.be/VRAW5RKIDtE
Righties planned it first. Maybe it’s about oil? Maybe it’s about being rich, not sides. Money & Oil…I say nuclear is the way to go! Breeder reactors are explained in “Pandora’s Promise” on netflix. I dare all who comment here to watch that and have it NOT change your mind completely, about nuclear power.
Thank you, Jeremy. The rapidity with which the “Russian hacked our elections” narrative has taken off is frightening. There has been no attempt to stand back and look at the real evidence that is available. You did a masterful job of summing up where we really are.
I can’t help but think that WaPo and the NYT news organization are aware that their evidence is flimsy. The term “consistent with” used in the intelligence report does not rule out hundreds of other possible actors from any number of different countries.
Like you, I doubt that Russian state hackers leave obvious clues to link the hack back to Russia. If the CIA has any real evidence, they need to reveal it now.
https://twitter.com/robpegoraro/status/809162471562940416
In this case, end-to-end encryption would have kept evidence of the sleazy, corrupt and dishonest behavior of a candidate for president, her party officials and her various associates and paymasters safe from revelation to and perusal by the citizens of our country.
That wouldn’t make any of us safer.
Also, please be careful when considering advice given by alleged experts who are, at this time, referring to “Russian email hacks.” The use of the label, without qualification, is suggestive of something less than expertise in Internet security.
Of course, if you have important and private information to transmit over the internet, end-to-end encryption is fundamental. But it’s also not a panacea, given how poor operational security typically is at both origin and destination.
In this case, end-to-end encryption would have kept evidence of the sleazy, corrupt and dishonest behavior of a candidate for president, her party officials and her various associates and paymasters safe from revelation to and perusal by the citizens of our country.
I hear what you’re saying, but I’m going to bet that they’re hubris will always keep them one step behind the people looking for the truth of how they operate. Proof is critical but, as some around here keep honking, circumstantial evidence matters as well.
Also, please be careful when considering advice given by alleged experts who are, at this time, referring to “Russian email hacks.”
You know, the only part of it that I entirely agree with, having not conducted an inspection into the author of the tweet, was the bit I highlighted:
Do you think that’s not true (I took it on a more personal level, but still)? Or that it isn’t actually a lesson that should be learned no matter if this turns out to be a hack or a leak? I’m certainly not as knowledgeable as you wrt these sorts of things, but that bit would seem to be axiomatic as well. :-s
As I said:
I want everyone to be safe, of course, but I’m having an ever-more-difficult time seeing nation states as a viable way of doing that, or even as sustainable in the reality developing in the biosphere.
Offered without opinion: Ex-British ambassador who is now a WikiLeaks operative claims Russia did NOT provide Clinton emails – they were handed over to him at a D.C. park by an intermediary for ‘disgusted’ Democratic whistleblowers
Murray’s most recent blog post.
The Russian Bear Uses a Keyboard
Murray’s point is compelling — that Russia is too sophisticated to leave all these footprints we’ve been given to understand are smoking guns. I remain undecided, but that aspect has really given me pause, notwithstanding those who are so utterly certain this was a Russian *government*-launched or -commissioned project.
you know it.
stay sharp.
If Murray’s blog piece gave you pause I suggest you also read these:
http://icitech.org/its-the-russians-or-is-it-cold-war-rhetoric-in-the-digital-age/
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/14/questions-for-the-electors-on-russian-hacking/
Also, Murray correcting the DM in comments to his blog post:
Interesting, but no more proof than the “The Russians did it” people present. Craig Murray should come out publicly. Oh, he is:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/12/russian-bear-uses-keyboard/#respond
I trust Murray more than CIA.
It is interesting that Murray was the person who declared that the CIA was involved with Uzbekistan where prisoners were being “boiled alive”:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4394#pop1
I do NOT trust ANYTHING out of the CIA.
@Nir Haramati
What you write in response to my comment here is false, to wit:
Among the several examples of documents being released in batches, Wikileaks published the Iraq war emails obtained from Chelsea Manning in that manner. As they explained at the time:
@Mona
The central claim of the statement is that Wikileaks was campaigning against Clinton. While the Iraq war emails might be relevant to the claim on batches, several points:
1. In a complex statement that includes several claims, showing one claim is inaccurate does not render the entire statement false, as your pejorative statement (“What you write in response to my comment here is false, to wit”) claims, especially when the other claims remain unmentioned.
2. The Iraq emails were batched thematically (“a particular country or topic ”); does the same applies to the Podesta releases? If so, Is the fact it lasted throughout the last weeks of the campaign, ending practically on election day, is incidental? Did Wikileaks published a similar explanation to the Podesta batches?
3. The comparison to another Wikileaks release brings to the fore an additional fallacy related to the Podesta releases’ timing and event of reference. During all the Clinton-related releases in the past year or so election was a developing event. Further, it is an event involving a clear, present, and inevitable choice, where elevation of one choice directly and immediately degrades others, and vice versa. The truth in an election, in other words, is NEVER served through singling one candidate out, as the only truth that matters is a comparative one; or rather, the truth related to only one candidate is always partisan. And the pretense that they were not meant to influence the outcome of the event is both absurd and hypocritical. Admittedly, withholding the information presents its own fallacies and moral downfalls, but as the Wikileaks editor’s article in the NYT shows, they do not even acknowledge that there was such a dilemma with respect to the Clinton’s emails.
4. Also in the context of Chelsea Manning emails, the Iraq war emails exposed US war crimes. Are there any emails that expose similar, or related, severity in the Podesta emails? (if so, can you provide links to the Wikileaks pages?)
I appreciate your correction of the inacuracy in my statement, but your summery rejection makes your statement falacious, not stronger. It is also a red herring, since it divert the discussion from the real issue: the failed integrity of Wikileaks.
I wonder why the Mainstream News Media has been so reckless as to refer to the involvement of Russian Intelligence as factual. Yesterday’s NY Times article didn’t even hedge on saying that The Russians did this. Most of their proof based strictly on what CrowdStrike said.
I believe Assange and the experts over the CIA torturers who are professional liars and the NYT any day. http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/william_binney_ray_mcgovern_intel_experts_russia_hacking_20161213
Good questions: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/14/questions-for-the-electors-on-russian-hacking/
This is one of the first truly ridiculous arguments I have read on the Intercept. It is easy to demolish the arguments of the writer with ease. Lets take the primary one “Maybe the Russians Released Democrats Emails”. So what? What difference does that make. If they did, they allowed information to be released that embarrassed and shed the Democrats in a bad light … That should be a good thing no? If they are lying in public and telling the truth in private … In a democracy we have a right to know that. So if these “Mythical Russians” did release this material from my point of view, whatever their intent was, it was ultimately in the furtherance of democracy. So they should “Mythically” be thanked. It was only freeking information (this I don’t think anyone disputes … With any credibility). If the Clinton Democrats have some plausible explanation for their perfidy and dissembling well they should have let us know what it was or not engaged in that kind of subterfuge to begin with. What the Russians did or did not do is routinely done by many countries and by the United States in particular.
I am sure if Clinton were the one benefiting from this kind of activity she would be jumping for joy at having been elected President … Instead of engaging in a nonsensical Alice in Wonderland trip down the Internet Tubes in search of Russians. Lets deal with real problems. For example the only reason Clinton didn’t win (if that is what you wanted to happen) has to do with the non-democratic state of the United States … So if you are after improving the state of democracy in the US, stop searching for faux Russians in the sewers and explain to the the people who live in the “Greatest Democracy In The World” why the democratically elected person for the presidency, twice in the last 20 years did not go on to be president. That is a great threat to democracy but apparently not to Democracy. Which is why the Democrats have made no efforts to do away with the Electoral College in the last 20 years. This Russian thing is just one big distraction and it should be given the derision and ridicule that it deserves. IF the Russians did provide hacked information (which a lot of the people I respect, doubt), the Russians didn’t cast votes, they didn’t provide us with a democratic candidate that people had the propensity to distrust and not believe. No what they did (or did not) do was dig into the hidden stuff that people in power like to keep hidden from the people they are Public Servants to. I think it is the operating premise of journalism in general and The Intercept in particular to do that.
The threat to democracy in the United States is an internal problem not an external one … That is unless you are one of those still waiting at the border for the promised Nicaraguan invasion to happen … They are still only a few hours away … If I remember correctly ….
References
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/
http://www.juancole.com/2016/12/america-russia-yourself.html
https://reaganlibrary.archives.gov/archives/speeches/1986/31686a.htm
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2015/07/04/any-day-Russia-will-launch-a-three-pronged-invasion-of-the-united-states/
“Captured communications between a Russian government employee and the hackers,”
Lol. considering they are using typewriters for secret missives and orders pass down the chain of command so lower officer wouldn’t know their direct boss, chances these exist are zero. It’s like proving firestarters from blackwater receive direct signed order from potus.
They wouldn’t even release doping scandal proof, what are we talking about?
I understand the chinese and the saudis invested big in hrc, so keep’em articles coming!
Either these Government agencies know or they don’t know for sure. Not releasing evidence with actual documentation is incredulous to the American public. The only other story is they have not finished writing the story they are trying to sell us.
Thanks for finally providing a bit more of a rundown of the public evidence. Regarding the SecureWorks paper, it’s worth quoting this paragraph in full:
“Most of the targeted accounts are linked to intelligence gathering or information control within Russia or former Soviet states. The majority of the activity appears to focus on Russia’s military involvement in eastern Ukraine; for example, the email address targeted by the most phishing attempts (nine) was linked to a spokesperson for the Ukrainian prime minister. Other targets included individuals in political, military, and diplomatic positions in former Soviet states, as well as journalists, human rights organizations, and regional advocacy groups in Russia.”
Also, we have evidence of altered documents being spread (not by Wikileaks) specifically to smear Soros:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/22/turns-out-you-cant-trust-russian-hackers-anymore/
Anyone can draw their own conclusions from the evidence. I certainly agree that additional evidence should be made public.
Finally, I still want to know how on Earth Roger Stone had advance knowledge of the Podesta hack:
https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/767366825743097856
Is anyone else wondering what background in cyber espionage the author has that qualities him to declare any evidence as not enough?
How is stealing DNC emails and giving them to the press via wikileaks an act of war? If the Intercept published stories based on those leaks and of course you did, do you agree with the NYT that you were agents of Russian intelligence? Did you assist a foreign power in committing an act of war?
Get a grip. Compare this to Stuxnex or any of a countless number of interventions the US has committed that were vastly more serious, up to and including assassinations, sabotage and assistance to war criminals and terrorists. This doesn’t even come close to that. What we are doing in Yemen is complicity in crimes against humanity. What Russia might have done is the sort of thing dishonest politicians do all the time when they can get away with it. It would barely rate a back page story if we did it to some political party in some small country. We in fact do much much worse.
The Intercept is supposed to be the dissident news organization and in this piece you adopt the propaganda framing of the Washintonton beltway.
Those who leaked the information showed how compromised the DNC and the Clintons are.
This was good. This did not ‘result’ in Trump, for if the Deep State don’t want him he’d be gone already.
It is to be hoped someone will leak information on the shadiness of Trump and Putin, also, and the corruption of every other elitist bastard in the world. More leaks! More releases! Never fewer!
Meanwhile, Bill Gates says Trump has the opportunity to be like JFK, which is certainly a mixed message, and it’s doubtful Trump could fuck that many women so often in his condition.
Now you’re on the enemies list for sure.
Rather than overly taxing his tiny hands, perhaps Gates merely means Trump has the opportunity to be shot in the head by the CIA…
they dont want him
they figure their plan B operation EC will reverse everything
if it does not then they have a very serious problem.
let’s just say the z-cult is between a rock and a hard place
Now they’re saying that Putin directly ordered the attacks, via human sources: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-officials-putin-personally-involved-u-s-election-hack-n696146
This is impressive, and I do believe it could be true. Yet there is another possible explanation, namely, that the CIA has their own candidate (Evan McMullin) and is trying to get Republican electors to defect, not to Clinton, but to a process in the House of Representatives that they might hope to influence in order to get direct control. No, even when spies seem trustworthy, I wouldn’t exactly trust them… that’s probably the time not to trust them. And yet… ugh. Trump. Putin. Goons of the world, unite, you have nothing to do but put all your peoples in the same damn chains.
msm lies demonstrate desparation far beyond normal circumstances
Wallstreet WMD media are beginning to sound like they need to hide something far worse than a simple WHODUNNIT. It sounds like their lives are at stake. Or that they face involvement in perpetrating false information to rob American or start or foment wars as if we have a weapons economy. Perhaps they are afraid of being tied to something more nefarious…
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/14/497860/Palestine-Israel-Negotiation-Ramini
Who is Oded Yinon?
Yes current MSM and CIA lies and political machinations demonstrate a desparation FAR BEYOND normal circumstances…
Even greater desperation than they collectively exhibited in 2013 when Newsweek’s “Dark Prophet” revealed
their quantum hand for all to see…
Dark Prophet?
More “high confidence,” still no real evidence.
They could tell us, but then they’d have to kill us.
Several have called out the author on this statement, so I was kind of interested to dive into it. Has Assange really showed “affection” for good ol’ Vlad?
I’m going with “no.” Affection sounds way too personal; I instead believe that Assange is sympathetic to Russia because the Russian government has itself been sympathetic to Assange’s plight and because Russia does not present a threat to Assange’s personal livelihood, like the U.S. does. However, this relationship only continues to exist if Russia remains outside of Assange’s crosshairs, in terms of leaks.
Assange told the NYT that he neither targets nor spares any particular nation, but then downplayed the importance of focusing on Russia, saying they’re a “bit player on the world stage” and that “every man and his dog is criticizing Russia…it’s a bit boring isn’t it.” These are merely excuses. Assange may have been a neutral purveyor of leaks way back in the day, but that all changed after his arrest. Putin began to use Assange for his own political purposes, becoming sympathetic to Assange’s plight (noting that the charges against Assange were politically motivated and that he was being “persecuted”) and in 2011 Russia issued Assange a visa and next thing you know Assange is getting a shown on state-sponsored TV.
Specifically, in 2012 Assange hosted “The World Tomorrow,” talk show on RT, which is a Russian-funded news network. That alone should give one pause. Think of how absurd it would be for a person aspiring to be the next Julian Assange to get a talk show with the U.S. funded Voice of America. Will that person take an adversarial approach against the country cutting his check? There’s also this from a 2012 article by the Independent (UK):
I don’t think it’s an understatement to say that the coverage of RT is at times overly deferential to the Russian government, right!? So you can see that as early as 2012, Assange’s and the Russian government’s views begin to dovetail. Assange simply does not Hillary Clinton and nor does Russia.
Then there was Wikileaks’ actions during the Panama Paper revelations that implicated Putin loyalists. Assange went on the defensive, suggesting the revelations about Russian-based shell companies was a U.S. led “Putin attack.” Ironically, Assange said that for the U.S. government to collaborate with the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists undermined the integrity of the report, apparently forgetting his paid stint at RT. When Snowden softly criticized WL’s lack of curation, Assange suggested that Snowden was trying to brown-nose Hillary Clinton. Sam Biddle may be wrong about Assange having affection for Putin, but absolutely correct that he is sliding into a paranoid, conspiracy-theorizing state.
In a nutshell, Assange is indeed sympathetic to Russia. Not because of some affection for Putin, but merely because their interests align and currently neither threatens the other.
The warcrimes of israel and theft of Palestinian land will become an issue and the msm media in the US are desparate to get America to fight and die in their wars – and suffer for doing so. Not looking too good for the lying WMD media eh?
Who is Oded Yinon?
Nate
“……..In a nutshell, Assange is indeed sympathetic to Russia. Not because of some affection for Putin, but merely because their interests align and currently neither threatens the other…….”
I couldn’t agree more. Nice job of research, Nate.
Why didn’t Assange go to CNN? Or PBS?
Or ABC? Or cry on Nate’so lap?
Bwa ha ha!
How did releasing all official emails of the Assad regime help Russia? Enlighten us.
I already addressed this:
Assange may have been a neutral purveyor of leaks way back in the day, but that all changed after his arrest.
And to clarify, I meant “after a warrant was issued for his arrest.”
I also referred to the NYT article that said this:
The Syria Files were released 2 years after the arrest warrant.
Wikileaks has publsihed approx 800,000 documents pertaining to Russia and Putin.
Go to the website and search either term and see for yourself. When some leaker provides it with more I am quite sure it will be inserted into the cue.
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/14/heres-the-public-evidence-russia-hacked-the-dnc-its-not-enough/?comments=1#comment-324316
Perhaps the better name for CNN should be “AT”…..America Today, since it is OBVIOUSLY carrying water for the U.S. government/CIA.
Zing. And Clinton News Network, amirite!?
Yes, very original Charlene…
My dog ate my homework .
Let me guess, a Golden Deceiver or an Olbermann Pinscher?
A brown schnauzer…
Well ,, what kinda dog you got ,,boy ?
Ah don’t rightly know ,, quess he’s sorta mixed up . Maybe a mongrel ?
Well Sonny we don’t allow Mongrelation in these here parts
Please Mr Sheriff —-“Don kill my dog ,,,please , please ,,,,,,,,,”
BANG BANG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I have to drink as much as you to comprehend your posts?
It can’t hurt. I recommend pomtinis. ;-}
If this was a criminal case in the US, the DA would say “bring them in.” I’ve been skeptical for a long time, but the circumstantial evidence (and I’ll admit the public evidence is just that) is extremely compelling. Convictions have been won on less.
Only if you don’t understand how the Internet works.
Oh, yeah, much less. And that is definitely nothing of which we should be proud.
You would probably say the same if pundits kept repeating ‘China did it’ or ‘North Korea did it’.
Repeated enough, every bullshit becomes compelling (for most people).
Just a few nights ago I heard some prominent person on cable TV mention that North Korea had done the Sony hacks when it fact it turned out to be an inside job:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2893509/Security-officials-say-crippling-Sony-hack-inside-job-work-disgruntled-former-employee-named-Lena-laid-off.html
Craig Murray has a funny take on the public evidence presented so far.
“…….The Keystone Cops portrayal of one of the world’s most clinically efficient intelligence services is of a piece with the anti-Russian racism which has permeated the Democratic Party rhetoric for quite some time. Frankly nobody in what is vaguely their right mind would believe this narrative……”
There goes the DNC again with their anti-white racism. When the DNC isn’t alienating white people in the Midwestern part of the US, they offend white people in Russia. Jesus, no wonder they lost the election.
You can almost see Murray gushing with pride over (his) Russian intelligence services – “one of the world’s most clinically efficient intelligence services”.
What does anything of this have to do with anti-white racism? You are being racist here for ignoring all none-white russians. Think about why you have to be so ignorant.
Well, it’s certainly unambiguous.
I like his ‘personal’ approach, too … the deep self-flagellation in the NYT today on becoming a ‘defacto instrument of Russian intelligence’ was beginning to get on my nerves.
NYT should stock up on hair shirts. I hear they’ll be in fashion the next four years.
Sounds like the name of a flatulent, octogenarian biker club.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Whatever floats yer gizzards. :-s
The NYT didn’t seem to be sporting them too heavily after their cakewalk in Iraq went down.
I can’t imagine them going the penitent route once they get WWIII up and brewing, as per instructions.
madonna bah`ammad.. (.. aka ‘el appalachian flash’)
nice to hear from you, cool moe b`!!
hope all is well in the thatch..
i’ll sample some ‘foggy bottom crumbler’ in your honour, this eve..
festivus wishes & bubble boy beatitudes
aloha..
suave d`nger
a t`wan would take a flamethrower to this place production
(:^)-[-<\:
#skatedude
ht – p`ska
Sam, thank goodness you’re not a hunting dog!
You fail to mention that it was Seth Rich [RIP] who was murdered for leaking DNC’s shit to Wikileaks.
Get with it man!
They murder by memo !!
EXCLUSIVE: Ex-British ambassador who is now a WikiLeaks operative claims Russia did NOT provide Clinton emails – they were handed over to him at a D.C. park by an intermediary for ‘disgusted’ Democratic whistleblowers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html
Seth Rich was murdered.
too many dead people – prematurely – around the Clintons rise thru politics.
Jesus loves the Clintons also barabbas. God is merciful.
Daily Mail? Conservative paper with sketchy past. Supported Hitler and Mussolini in run up to WWII. Sided w/Russia in the Georgia/Ossetia invasion of 2008. Rupert Murdoch property. Started a partnership with China just last August. Not a credible source.
Henry Ford has Hitler portrait in his cabinet. Dozens of other companies have supported Nazis.
Well, Georgia has attacked South Ossetia (even according to the EU’s investigation), BBC has televised it almost live. Russia is UN-mandated guarantor of peace there, and it has stopped the aggression by Georgia in only five days.
Facebook is in love with China, provides them with their newest censorship tools.
no sale
INSIDE JOB
Since you are so fast on the draw, what can you tell us about the murder of Seth Rich?
(knock knock)
The Daily Mail is simply reporting what Craig Murray told them. Actually, they did get some things wrong. Here’s what he had to say in comments of his blog:
Personally, I think Craig Murray is saying too much about the source.
There is no shred of evidence of hacking it was inside job of leaker as far as emails are concerned.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/
Well written and thoughtfully considered Sam. Great job.Cool graphic.
I hate wasting time and this article was no time waster. :-)
However, when you have the time I could use a few clarifications on the following…
“…And then there’s Wikileaks, which after a long, sad slide into paranoia… ”
PARANOIA? NAME ONE OR TWO THINGS WIKILEAKS IS PARANOID ABOUT
IN LATE 2016..
…(Wikileaks or Julian?) conspiracy theorizing…
CONSPIRACY THEORIZING? NAME ONE OR TWO THINGS WIKILEAKS IS “CONSPIRACY THEORIZING” ABOUT. SETH RICH DOESN’T COUNT.
GIVEN WHAT WE KNOW NOW POST SNOWDEN I HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME USING THE TERM (AS CASS SUNSTEIN DEFINES IT) WITH A STRAIGHT FACE.
“…and (Wikileaks) general internet toxicity…”
PLEASE DEFINE “INTERNET TOXICITY”. DOES THAT MEAN THEIR SITE TRAFFIC WAS DROPPING DURING THE CLINTON DISCLOSURES OR WHAT? TOXICITY TO WHOM?
…(Wikileaks) has made no attempt to mask its affection for Vladimir Putin…
HELL I’VE TRUSTED VLADIMIR PUTIN MORE THAN MY OWN PRESIDENT SINCE HE AND LAVROV NEGOTIATED LIQUIDATING ASSADS CHEMICAL WEAPONS (AFTER WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE A CIA PLANNED FALSE FLAG ATTACK IMPLEMENTED BY TURKS AND “SPONTANEOUSLY” FILMED BY STANLEY KUBRICK) FOR AN APOPLECTIC FLAILING BARACK OBAMA WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY PROTECTING EDWARD SNOWDEN.
BUT I GUESS MORE TO THE POINT COULD YOU PROVIDE A FEW CONCRETE EXAMPLES OF WIKILEAKS (JULIANS?) ORGANIZATIONAL AFFINITY “LOVE” FOR PUTIN
…and its (Wikileaks) crazed contempt for Hillary Clinton.
I CANT FIND ONE (1) EXAMPLE )F WIKILEAKS (JULIANS?) CRAZED (REALLY?) CONTEMPT FOR HILLARY CLINTON. WHEN YOU USE A WORD LIKE CRAZED I’M LOOKING FOR THE PRONOUNCEMENTS OF A RAVING MADMAN. NOTHING LESS.
I’m still trying to grasp (WORKING THROUGH) why the Intercept wasn’t on the PropOrNot list and Ron Paul and Anti-War are.
How many people have been calling for retaliation?
This is nuts. The USG crossed a Rubicon when they sent out Stuxnet , and since this Admin has not yet been concrete on what constitutes “war,” we sure as hell need proof.
To wit, the other war we did not start, where we didn’t have proof, and where Mr Putin rode in on horseback and behaved more diplomatically than the hawks and neolibs are behaving now.
Joe Scarborough and gang – all of them – on msnbc this morning, were talking about how Mr Obama failed miserably by not setting up a NF Zone/Safe Zone (at least) in Syria and how he weakened our position by not backing up his Red Line statement by starting war with Syria. The MJ crowd were so clear on how badly Mr Obama screwed up. Eugene Robinson belatedly pointed out that PBO tried to get a new AUMF (Congress voted it down), but even the UN Commission could not determine from where the Sarin came.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Government_Assessment_of_the_Syrian_Government%E2%80%99s_Use_of_Chemical_Weapons_on_August_21,_2013#Responses
Then there is Seymour Hersh’s story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack#Allegations_of_false_flag_attack
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/23/hersh-vindicated-turkish-whistleblowers-corroborate-story-on-false-flag-sarin-attack-in-syria/
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/09/16/was-turkey-behind-syria-sarin-attack-2/
Mr. Biddle
First of all, no one is going to war over the likelihood that Russia interfered and clearly influenced the 2016 elections. That is just scaremongering on your part.
Second of all, you just barely touched on the “motives” and history for Russian interference in the 2016 US elections as well as interference in Europe and Ukraine. Even the Guardian reader’s editor noted the influx of Russian-bots below the line on Russian related articles after the illegal annexation of Crimea. The interference in the US elections is the expected result of,
1. Perceived interference by the US in Russia’s sphere of influence; namely, Georgia and Ukraine (especially in 2010)
2. the advance of NATO to the doorstep of Russia since the collapse of the USSR
3. the diametrically opposite positions of Trump and Clinton on moving forward with our relations with Russia in the 2016 election
The motive is fundamental to assigning guilt in any crime. The Intercept has avoided that discussion (you mentioned motive one time). Greenwald is a lawyer and there is no excuse for him to ignore the possible motives of the Russian government. Greenwald obviously could care less about the motives of his client, but he certainly does question the motives of the leaked story to the Washington Post:
“……..Beyond that, what makes claims from anonymous sources so especially dubious is that their motives cannot be assessed. Who are the people summarizing these claims to the Washington Post? What motives do they have for skewing the assertions one way or the other?……”
Third of all, you assigned motives to Crowdstrike like,
“…….Finally, one can’t be reminded enough that all of this evidence comes from private companies with a direct financial interest in making the internet seem as scary as possible…..”
Like Crowdstrike’s credibility means nothing to them? Certainly other people had motives to hack the DNC (like Trump), but finding the signatures of Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear must have narrowed it down considerably for them. Can you blame them for their conclusion? Government intelligence agents must be idiots because they seemed to have bought lock, stock and barrel into Crowdstrike’s conclusions. If you have anything which calls into question the credibility of Crowdstrike, by all means bring it out into the open. So far, a profit motive is hardly credible (unless they are in bankruptcy).
Finally, taken together (including the motives), the evidence appears to be substantial in implicating the Russian government.
You forgot to include in the list of Russia’s grievances the USA-backed coup in Ukraine — mind you, with the use of literal neo-Nazis that have also videodocumented their threats against Crimeans, and were later sent to the Eastern Ukraine to subjugate/kill those who did not accept the coup, who were still aligned to legal authorities (now those neo-Nazi gangs are OFFICIALLY employed by the new Ukrainian regime: goolge e.g. Azov and Aidar regiments with their Waffen SS insignia).
The peaceful reunification of Crimea with its homeland (from where it was illegally torn from in 1954) was only a retaliatory move.
As for your conclusion, there is literally nothing that would tie those hacking groups with the Russian government. The article sites the fact that the supposed hacking groups is all over the place and have no real preponderance in political hacking whatsoever — if you believe in the DNC-paid Crowdstrikes’ claimed evidence at all (the company is also governmental contractor).
One objection that ruins your hypothesis. Your assumption that the russians are playing to win in a slugfest is faulty. In objective comparison of resourses russia has no chances in turning the tide, plus russian elites are dependent on the us like their central bank is dependent on dollars. The fact is a little cold war is beneficial to both sides and propaganda-wise HRC would be better prez from the russian point of view, as hawks from both sides would drive their own agenda under the guise of defense needs.
What’s most clear is that the hackers intended to _appear_ to be Russian. Who might want to see tensions increase between the US and Russia? ISIS? Some techie in the Ukraine? Or a US citizen disgruntled with Hillary’s double-talk? Who knows.
These hacks are no worse than what the NSA does every day — in fact, a great deal better: the NSA doesn’t make its info public.
If this hacking hadn’t happened, Hillary might have got in under false pretenses. The moral of this story is, choose a better Democrat candidate who’s not intent on ripping off the public. I’m horrified that Trump got in, but the reason for that was not primarily the DNC hacks, but a large number of legitimately angry (but also stupid) voters that the DNC has totally lost touch with.
jimmy dore on GG article and wapo bs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPCE-hrcurs
Even if Russia did this, it would only have done what the U.S. government has repeatedly done to foreign governments. Why should Russia doing it to us be a cause for war?
Hmm. I can’t actually remember an incident in which US agencies hacked a mainstream neoliberal politician in a foreign nation and then released authentic materials exfiltrated from her/his server/accounts.
;^)
True lysias “NSA tapped German Chancellery for decades, WikiLeaks claims
New documents released suggest communications between top officials including Angela Merkel were intercepted by the US spy agency” [Guardian] There should be no problem since everyone does it, the US more than anyone else. The problems occur when you are found out.
“Viewed as a whole, the above evidence looks strong, and maybe even damning. ”
Have you lost your mind? That ‘evidence’ looks about as credible as the historical evidence on aluminium tubes or Saddam’s WMD.
You not only couldn’t convict on the strength of it, you couldn’t get a court to even look at the case.
Have the guts to call it what it is – credulous, fanciful, garbage.
Ship all the liberals and their children to Ukraine and have them all fight for their freedom.
Maybe we can have a normal country after that.
No, the Deep State would still be in power, and the oligarchy would still produce hideous inequality, oppression and planetary ruin. And Country music would be even more popular, which is diabolical.
If you say bad shit about Willie Nelson, I’ll unfriend you. ;^)
Sincere Country music (including Nelson, Hank Williams and most bluegrass) gets a pass in my musical fascism. I should have been more specific, but I’d noticed I was the only one talking and got reticent.
Reticent. Yup, that’s almost the first thing that comes to mind when I think of you, Maisie. ;^)
But it’s a good thing you’re gonna give Willie a pass. As for the slick, over-produced country pop crap (the execrable Miley Cyrus’ creepy father, for instance), it would be fine with me if we let the Morton County, ND Sheriff’s Department use them for concussion grenade practice.
Or Patsy Cline.
Sorry, I can’t offer an ultimate, just a reasonable midterm solution.
Liberal arts majors at Ukrainian wasteland frontlines. I promise to put a flower on their gravestones, now and then.
I know very well what you’ll put on their gravestones, and it isn’t flowers.
I don’t do partisan very well, as I think both sides suck donkey balls.
And elephant balls.
The Intercept is showing its true left wing colors. It’s very easy to deceive in the digital world. Simple to frame and blame. Who in their right mind would believe such simple bread crumbs to involve Russian authorities. It’s very clear that “evidence” was purposefully planted to lead novice investigators down a false trail.
But by who?
Scott Rickard – former linguist for the CIA?
I quite agree. And so does former UK ambassador Craig Murray, who says he has met both Assange and a Wikileaks source in D.C.
Sounds like a whole lot of “So What?” to me; even if Russia was behind the hack, and they obviously would rather deal with Trump than Killary, what harm was done? Other than to bolster her reputation as “crooked Hillary”, the leaked e-mails hardly changed a majority of minds.
Trump won because Obama focused more on taking care of the banks than the Main Street economy. Can the Dems blame that on Putin too?
I agree: the only evidence that would definitively prove involvement by the Russian government would be an interecepted communication between someone high in that government with the hackers, provided by an uninterested third party, say, the Swiss. I would not put it past our own services to manufacture such evidence.
The CIA, NSA and FBI have established such a reputation for duplicity with the American people and its legislative and judicial representatives that it would be difficult to take anything they produce at face value. And they are under enormous pressure from the democrats to do just that. George Tenet caved in to Bush & Co., why shouldn’t Jonn Brennan?
Meanwhile the clueless MSM are tripping over each other to publish the most provocative lies about the episode. One would think the NY Times or MSNBC would be the champ, but the current issue of Time claims that Putin is trying to cause us to lose faith in our electoral process. Well, I’ll tell you, assholes, the democrats and republicans do not need any outside help to accomplish that!
I don’t see why anyone has faith in the electoral process. The cost is prohibitive to verify the results, which are arrived at through untrustworthy processes like hackable voting machines.
It is indeed shocking to lose faith in institutions, but the alternative is to trust them, which is laughable at this point.
Not a techie, but seems like, as stated, a lot of sloppy but convenient “clues”.
If Russia, its affiliates or the GOP is behind this, they may have done the world
a favor considering HRC’s belligerent chicken-hawk nuclear saber rattling.
When Spencer Woodman chose to target Peter Theil in his Dec 12 article entitled “Transition Adviser Peter Thiel Could Directly Profit From Mass Deportations”, I felt that a disclaimer should have been attached to the article due to the fact that a great deal of personal animus is harbored for Thiel by the owner of First Look Media, Pierre Omidyar. In light of said animus, such articles could be construed as a misuse of first amendment protections that are enjoyed by US media outlets. And here we are, just one day later, witnessing another very curious attack on another outspoken critic of Pierre Omidyar, Julian Assange:
https://pando.com/2014/07/09/julian-assange-chides-glenn-greenwald-slams-pierre-omidyar-and-big-power-first-look/
I, too, have been an open critic of Julian Assange. I have repeatedly given voice to the belief that he used his status as a whistle blower to avoid taking responsibility for his personal actions (i.e. rape); to that end, he used a great deal of Wikileaks funds to legally frustrate Swedish authorities from dutifully investigating and/or prosecuting the rape allegations against him. So, to, I believe that his realpolitik approach to fundraising and disclosure have severely hobbled his ability to wage a clear ethical defense of his whistle blower actions. And a certain degree of discernible personal animus does appear to affect his modus operandi. I say this as a pretext to once again faulting another Intercept writer for failing to disclose the fact that the very man who pays his salary has personal reasons to use his Media clout to impugn the journalistic reputation of Julian Assange:
Pierre Omidyar’s demonstrable business ties to USAID – a longstanding front for CIA activity – further lends credence to the perception that Biddle is being used as a paid proxy to permanently damage Assange’s reputation. The very suggestion that Assange has “affection for Vladimir Putin” is enough to permanently paint all future Wikileaks’ disclosures as Russian disinformation. Given the fact that Glenn Greenwald and, more recently, Intercept writers have heavily relied on Wikileaks disclosures to collectively nurture an alt-left, global narrative, such criticisms of Assange appear to be self-defeating.
The Intercept (including Greenwald, unfortunately) regard Assange as useful but irresponsible.
Maise = Mona = Glenn Greenwald’s biggest fan and in-house apologist
Yes, that’s why I just wrote something Mona would never say. Twit.
Keep posting your denials; it does wonders for drawing attention to my original comment – especially when you use a whole string of sock puppets do to it! Next time, you might be advised to space them out a little bit to avoid alerting others as to how frantic you are to mitigate the potential effect of my commentary.
The effect of your commentary? Why would I want to deprive the audience of such a good laugh?
Maisie is not Mona.
I used to think that even though I had agreed on virtually nothing whatsoever ever with Karl, he’s not your ‘bag of hammers’ level of commenter. That “think” has been derailed in it’s entirety. It’s not even a close call. He is as deranged as any of the others who make that “sock puppet” claim, and that is some very deranged company Karl is keeping.
And here I was thinking you had actually evolved to the point where civil discourse was actually possible between us.
But Karl = Resident Loon II.
Madam, you wound me…
Seema, I have been reading Glenn Greenwald’s articles for years. During that time, I have seen hundreds of contributors severely abused by Glenn Greenwald, Mona, and his inner circle of supporters. Even when proven dead wrong, they never offer up an apology for their offensive behavior let alone admit that they were wrong. They are all about winning at all cost. There is absolutely no genuine regard for truth or civility. One is either with them or against them and they will use every unscrupulous tactic in the book to undermine their perceived opposition. I have just recently listened to a David Rubin interview of Sam Harris wherein he spent the better part of two hours detailing the degree to which he has been personally defamed,and his positions have been severely misrepresented, by Glenn Greenwald, Salon, Murtaza Hussein, and Cenk Uygur:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5AAi_DdlQU
Although I disagree with Sam Harris on a number of issues, he strikes me as being sincere and forthright in his beliefs. The intelligent, civil, and equanimous nature of his discourse stands in stark contrast to the rancorous and polarizing debate style preferred by Greenwald and his inner circle of sycophants.
Karl – After you posted about Sam Harris on another thread, I watched some Sam Harris videos on Youtube and read up a bit about him. I was mostly impressed by what he had to say.
If what was said during the recent SZ interview with Edward Snowden is to be believed – and I do – Wikileaks started out operating by the same rules as Greenwald and others, by sifting through the material and redacting stuff that served no purpose other than to put people at risk, even consulting with the parties before releasing material, giving them the chance to argue against publication. But then a reporter at The Guardian published the link to the Wikileaks database in his book, and Assange decided that it would be better if Wikileaks released everything rather than allowing the material to be cherry picked by people on the outside.
That somewhat explains Assange’s paranoia, as far as I am concerned. He sees himself as having been double crossed by someone he trusted, and is not going to let that happen again.
Still, I wish he would be more careful with his releases.
I prefer WikiLeaks’ approach to the Intercept’s/Guardian’s etc. It’s too late in the day to hold back. The world is on fire, and prissing about while the Deep State and other oligarchies continue to destroy life and ethics is what is irresponsible in my view.
We need activism that ameliorates, not that causes more waffling intellectual chit-chat.
Well said Maisie. I agree. Its to late in the day, the world is on fire and the permafrost is melting. I believe we need a broadbase Project PM for the entirety of the balance the Snowden archive like cryptome has been saying since 2013. That said there is a reason the Intercept didn’t wind up on the PropoOrNot list like the Washington Post or New York Times and I believe they all have the unpublished balance of Snowden Archives.
If you believe what you’re saying I suspect that you must have either forgetting or that you don’t care or never did care that innocent people, such as Muslims who have been targeted by NSA for no reason at all as terrorists or terrorist sympathizers or some other bogus bull shit, could be killed or have their lives complicated, if not completely destroyed, if their identities were leaked via the dump model.
I don’t see that countless innocent Muslims aren’t already being targeted and oppressed, and that fuck all is being done about it because much of the ‘civilized’ world is treating it all like an intellectual exercise.
More and greater and more frequent releases would help change the system faster, in my opinion, as even the sheer weight of corrupt-establishment exposure would be compelling.
I see your point, and it’s Greenwald’s, too. But I don’t agree with it, as things are not changing fast enough, and I think they might if less pussyfooting around was being done.
I could be persuaded that Assange could be a little more discreet, while Greenwald could use being a lot less so, but that’s about it for movement on my position.
Karl, “used his status as a whistle blower to avoid taking responsibility for his personal actions (i.e. rape); ” You must be joking, he has agreed to be questioned at the Ecuadorean Embassy on ‘allegations’ of rape, had he gone to Sweden without a guarantee of not being extradited he would have been a fool. His six year stay at the Embassy is nothing to the punitive sentence he would receive in the US. Probably life plus 99 years without parole.
Another time harry, there is a bigger game afoot – one in which Julian Assange is being intentionally marginalized by the very people who have sung his praises for years. I saw the exact same dynamic in play when William F. Buckley was tasked by his CIA handlers to use the clout of the National Review to marginalize the political right in his day. This tactic proved to be especially effective in Europe during the early days of the CIA (See: Operation Mockingbird). Ironically, the political right in Buckley’s day was opposed to:
1. Immigration
2. Economic Globalization
3. Free trade agreements
4. Erosion of US Sovereignty to international institution
OK. You say this article was published in response to The Intercept’s article. One big problem- the article was from 2014.
In providing you with a thoughtful response to another inquiry in the past, I was not even shown the simple courtesy of you acknowledgement of that effort. Why, then, should I go to the trouble of addressing you current inquiry now?
The Georgia Secretary of State’s Office now confirms 10 separate cyberattacks on its network were all traced back to U.S. Department of Homeland Security addresses.
You guys in the CIA are busy huh!
Russia hacks into DNC/DCLC emails and all because Wikileaks, the Wizard of Oz, Jimmy Hoffa and those dammed monkeys flying out of their A$$ has caused great harm to Hillary’s chances of being elected? ( *sigh* apparently someone forgot to tell them that it was Hillary’s turn.)
Wow… by my own guesstimation, the powers that be really, really, really want to have a war with Putin’s Russia.
No, they really want to start war with Russia. No joke.
Ready or not, sit back and expect it, ‘cuz it’s coming…
.
End of story.
It’s evident the military-industrial complex owns the establishment, including Trump (who appears to moronically want a war with Iran, and an expanded military). They’ll get more war and more arms sales in any way they can.
Biddle probably believes Facebook, too, when they told him about the Muslim registry.
“Authorities and the establishment must be trusted unless they self-identify as right-wing” seems to be the default idiocy of many writers here and elsewhere. Go the whole hog and assume they’re all lying, whatever role they play.
Amen to all of it. For shame, Biddle!!
Many electronic devices contain NSA malware right out of the box. So is every computer and smart phone sold overseas by American companies an act of war?
A sensitive network such as the DNC server probably contains malware from at least a dozen different agencies – and that only counts those based in the United States. The gentlemen’s agreement among spy agencies is that they collect information, but don’t modify the files or make them public. So chances are that none of the agencies with malware on the DNC server were actually responsible for providing the information to Wikileaks. That was probably an insider with an axe to grind (otherwise known as a Bernie Bro). The DNC should have realized that when you stab people in the back, their loyalty tends to diminish.
Right now, Democrats are a bit crazy; they are suffering from the cognitive dissonance caused by a Trump victory. The only way to process this while retaining their sanity is to assume a malevolent actor intervened. After Trump is inaugurated, they’ll slowly return to their normal, smug and arrogant selves with their patina of sanity restored.
Ha! Unfortunately the DNC have concluded merely that Bernie supporters and other progressives simply don’t know their place.
Main missed point is why would Russian hackers leave Russian finger prints? Make no sense at all. Besides its the contents of the emails that damned the Democrats not the hack(s) themselves.
Soooo…. the fact the hack happened is more important than the illegal and ethical activity revealed by the actual emails?? Gee whiz, that makes perfect sense! (SIGH)
It’s not a hack at all. The entire fiasco is a lie.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/12/cias-absence-conviction/
Having a “high confidence” that something happened is NOT the same as proving something happened beyond a reasonable doubt.
Trump’s role in this needs to be investigated. Also, declassify all relevant information and release it to the public. Have any of the war hawks stopped to realize: if this is classified information, how do we get this out in public and score political points? Do we have only closed door hearings?
The Electoral College vote needs to be delayed until these investigations are done. This also means that Obama would have to continue in office until then? What’s he gonna do? Say I am incapable of fufilling my duties in office? Who would take over as an Interim President? Not somebody under investigation? The anti Trump people keep hyping the fact that the electors legally don’t have to vote for Trump. If they don’t, what happens then? How many of them are getting death threats (all unreported, of course) if they don’t vote Trump? A mass revolt will happen? Even if the reported 20 don’t vote Trump, he still has the majority to win.
While all relevant evidence in this case needs to be declassified and pubically released, the Powers that Be that are out to destroy Putin will never do it. This is the perfect tool to hide behind and justify (in their view) any/all actions against him. As a matter of “polivy”, we never comment on national security matters. To war hawks like Hillary, McCain and others, this is their dream come true.
Overall a fine piece, Sam. However, your evidence-free, unsupported sniping at Assange is a serious (and ironic) defect in a story about evidence, credible and otherwise.
That was some smear on Assange.
Do you have an opinion on the NIST report for 911, too?
Don’t forget the Assange smear on 9/11 conspiracy theorists. I’m not disputing the rest of his work, but I consider that lying by way of omission.
“It certainly remains plausible that [a Russian or] Russians hacked the DNC, and remains possible that Russia itself ordered it. “
Department of Homeland security and the CIA are putting forth a false narrative of Russian hacking first introduced by the DNC. It’s part of a concerted effort to demonize Russia, who has absolutely no stake in being fingered for messing with U.S. elections electronically.
Go to my website, americanterrorist dot com and scroll down to the lower left and see the widget, “Hack Update (Obvious U.S. or MOSSAD shenanigans)”. There you will see numerous attempts at hacking into the site that I have documented from Orenburg Russian Federation, Kulebaki Russian Federation, Chisinau Moldova, Republic of MoldoviaI, Berlin Germany, Odessa, Ukraine and Ashburn, VA (oops).
I am certain that the spooks trying to break into my word press site have nothing to do with Russia, but everything to do with leaving me and everyone else with the appearance that it’s Russia.
It’s important to keep in mind the repeal of the Smith Mundt Act as part of 2012’s NDAA, which forbid the government from using propaganda against its citizens. Today, it’s more direct and misleading than ever before.
Notice after the election and at the heels of a congressional vote for a no fly zone in Syria, Turkey, with the approval and probably support of the U.S., invaded Syria with the express goal of ousting Assad.
Quite an aggressive posture for a lame duck session. Get the client state to invade Syria despite an anticipated change in the handling of Russia and ISIS through Syria. They are behaving like it’s business as usual.
We know that ISIS was harvested, facilitated and funded (mostly under a thin veil of a proxy war) by the Obama administration with Clinton’s state department. Mercenaries in Libya were handed shipments of weapons while enroute to Syria. That’s how ISIS developed and was continually supported by the West as it tore apart Syria.
Russia took noticed and watched all these alleged bombing efforts that somehow never put a dent into ISIS or all the killings in Syria. In addition, with the help of Soros funded NGO’s, the U.S. promoted a coup in the bordering country of Ukraine, installing a dictator and subsequently attempting to blame Russia for a downed Malaysian jet that was supposed to have been struck by a Russian ground launched missile despite a cockpit riddled with 30mm bullet holes.
With permission from Assad, the legitimate leader of Syria, Russia began AUTHENTICALLY bombing ISIS. Sure enough, ISIS was then getting obliterated.
This was an embarrassment to the West and the United States, who continue to create propaganda against Russia. That’s when all the phony bombed-out hospital stories kept popping up. That’s why bogus stories about how Russia was hacking for Wikileaks or that Russia was hacking elections, are constantly promoted and many election integrity activists fooled by the propaganda continue to perpetuate that notion.
Our pols should be able to lie to us with impunity. Anyone revealing what they are really doing behind our backs is unAmerican and interfering with American Democracy! It is the God-given right of a politician to lie and to be believed otherwise American Democracy has been hijacked, er, hacked!
Have you ever disbelieved a politician, or known someone who has! I have a list here, of 200 treasonous sites…
Russia spoiled the US proxy war in Syria and the US **NEEDS** this hacking story.
It will be released and then claimed to be a slam dunk as obvious Iraqi WMD…
The only evidence we see is evidence that the intercept is a corrupt joke. Well, you wouldn’t expect less from a propaganda outlet owned by Ebay Inc.
Great article Sam. As a former cybersecurity incident response leader for the USAF, I’ve been saying many of the same things you wrote here, but I’m not near as eloquent. You hit the nail on the head and exposed how a theory gets repeated by the media enough that it becomes accepted as fact. I’m a big fan of Jeffrey Carr and I’m glad you used him as a credible reference. Nobody has any greater integrity in my book.
Releasing private emails simply does not rise to the level of interfering with or altering a national election. If you could show that the content of those same emails were fabricated to entice a person to vote one way or the other, then you might have a case.
IF the Russians hacked and released the DNC and Podesta emails, maybe they should be given a medal for showing the world these people’s real face.
Isn’t the Russian angle just a wedge anyway? My hunch is that most people could care less if Russia did it or a 400 pound guy in a basement. What matters is that we focus on the fact that it actually happened and that actual event played a major role in getting Trump elected. By focusing on it, the same way the GOP focuses on Benghazi, we hope to break open all kinds of other leads. Perhaps we will find out that it was a false flag operation. Even so, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t done by anti-Clinton operatives in the intelligence community. In other words, just finding out that some one or something did it for Trump’s sake may be enough to taint his presidency. This may be a tactical error on the part of the anti-Trump forces, but then again, I used to think the Clinton derangement syndrome that yielded Benghazi and emailgate would backfire on the Republicans. That was proven wrong.
As I got about halfway through the article, the words ‘Ham Sandwich’ started echoing through my mind. Not because I was hungry (was multitasking, reading while eating a bowl of cereal) but because of the old joke ‘Any DA can get a grand jury indictment against a ham sandwich’.
Basically, every article about ‘did the Russians hack the election’ that goes into the evidence deals with some, or all, of what has been dug up that, in the eyes of those trying to prove Russia was behind the hacking, shows Russia was behind it, and only questions how compelling those links are. Which is exactly how a grand jury almost always works (the exceptions being pretty much only when it is about a cop shooting a Black man) and why the people listening to the argument vote ‘that’s a compelling case of guilt’ EVERY time.
But (if the defendants can afford it) the people who listen to the arguments at trial vote ‘not guilty’. Why? Because in a trial, the defendants get to see all the evidence, including the exculpatory evidence, and the jury gets to compare how compelling it is, too. And, even worse for the prosecution, the defendants (again, if they can afford it) get to present a case against another possible guilty party, using the evidence that was ‘too irrelevant’ (in the eyes of the people who want to convict the defendants) to be put before the grand jury.
And Obama’s ‘probe’, the House and Senate inquiries (if they happen), and every panel and article that I can see being held and deemed worthy of publicity is going to be run along the lines of a grand jury, not a defended trial. After all, who’s going to risk the repercussions of holding such a thing and having it say Exxon, or Koch, or the oil lobby, or really anyone who is a domestic power in the US, are the ones who broke the law to get Trump made President.
rrheard notes below that:
The reasonable person test and the related standards of care have been all but abdicated this election cycle; not that there’s a lot of evidence they’ve been fully utilized up to now anyway.
With regards to this specific article, “HERE’S THE PUBLIC EVIDENCE RUSSIA HACKED THE DNC – IT’S NOT ENOUGH” – what the hell is this absolutely unexplained and unrelated subjective nonsense doing anywhere in a piece attempting to explain why the public evidence isn’t enough?
While I certainly appreciate authors who dive into their own comment sections to try to elucidate what they’ve written, in this case the responses below by Mr. Biddle provide nothing of the sort.
It’s completely OK to offer subjective views as to why you reach a conclusion, but one has to realize that “because I feel this way” doesn’t have a whole lot of evidential weight behind it; in fact, it’s the same amount of weight that the US intelligence agencies have offered us thus far.
NONE.
Regime change is Regime change anyone can play!
@ SillyPutty
Not sure what your point was in quoting me, but just to clarify so nobody reads your decontextualized snippet, and thinks I’m arguing something I’m not:
As noted below in the thread, I’m arguing that if one cannot prove that “…but for these leaks/hacks/disclosures a sufficient number of voters would have voted differently and altered the election result…” then it cannot be proved that “Russia interfered in our election” in any meaningful or statistically significant way.
And since nobody, for the reasons I’ve illustrated below I think quite convincingly, can prove “but for causation” as to these leaks/hacks/disclosures and their “effect” on at the very least all voters in swing states, then it cannot be proved (in a logical or mathematically valid sense) that “Russia interfered with our election”, by contrast to say proof that individual ballots were altered or vote counts manipulated by Russia which would be actual “interference” of a concrete and demonstrable variety.
This entire argument that “the hacks/leaks/disclosures interfered with our election” is an unproved(able) red herring, and as such is quite clearly nothing more than propaganda absent a voter by voter survey of every voter in crucial swing states.
Anybody who can’t grasp the above doesn’t understand necessary and sufficient proof of causation, or simply wants to believe this bullshit propaganda for partisan reasons or in service of some other agenda.
Anyone can argue probabilities or correlation all day long, and they can attempt to construct some scenario using imperfect polling data or trends over time, but again, if polling at the time didn’t measure the precise question of “did these leaks/hacks/disclosures AND their TRUE and ACCURATE content” sway particular voters such data also does not even establish correlation much less causation.
That’s notwithstanding the problem of arguing that the American people don’t have a fundamental right to know as much as humanly possible about the words and actions of their prospective elected officials and/or those who work for them as their political staff, agents, organizations or operatives. Democracy and/or representative government isn’t possible if “the people” don’t have accurate information about their prospective elected official’s “real” viewpoints, actions, motivations and the information those same prospective officials are basing their policy positions and campaign actions on. It really isn’t that complicated a notion, or controversial, except to those who don’t want to know or want to be duped and fed bullshit by their elected officials. And I’m not one of those human beings.
Thanks. I should have linked to your very well explained comment directly.
It is amazing how hacks and even tweets can cause such a stir and even Regime change. Throw in a little fake news stir well and hell you could probably take down the RNC
Excellent, and clearly put.
That was meant for @rrheard.
It is indeed rare to read such a lucid and accurate assessment of the veracity of these arguments; too bad that your assessment isn’t more widely distributed and available. Thank you, nonetheless; I enjoyed reading it.
Great post. Shocking to see so many repeating the allegations like parrots without questioning anything.
The reason why the “tradecraft” defense doesn’t work is simply that people from the U.S. have been looking at the slip-ups of incompetent secret agents for a while now. I mean, COINTELPRO didn’t come to light because they decided to level with us after an FOIA request – it came through by slip-ups, whether it was by providing information accidentally, manipulating people in a bizarre and obvious fashion, or leaving a certain facility in Pennsylvania poorly secured. The more any sinister secret organization does, the more slip-ups there will be.
It’s so sad this journalist has to explain …
The US has been subjected to “Red/Russian” scares every 30 years or so since after WWI. The first, circa 1917-early 1920s, included the US sending troops to Russia. Then after WWII, we had the Red Scare that lead to the infamous persecution of people who worked in Hollywood and other branches of the entertainment industry. President Reagan fostered a third Red Scare, albeit a milder one than Senator McCarthy participated in. Now, we are in the midst of a fourth Red/Russian scare. It seems to be as slippery with truth as the three previous scare eras.
Current Russian statecraft probably includes trying to affect American politics, but that is the kind of “normal” behavior every country practices and has been the target of throughout history. That does not make these kind of actions OK, but we should not go to war with real bombs over this. The scariest part of the whole story, if true, is how naive and unprepared our private sector and government are to defend against cyber attack. Do the people mentioned in the story really believe Gmail is a secure service?
Take a look at this paragraph from the NYT story this morning [with my addition]:
“But American officials did not imagine that the Russians would dare try those techniques [political chicanery] inside the United States. They were largely focused on preventing what former Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta warned was an approaching ‘cyber Pearl Harbor’ — a shutdown of the power grid or cellphone networks.”
So American officials thought the Russians wouldn’t dare to intervene in our political campaign, but thought the Russians would be daring enough to try to destroy large parts of our most vital infrastructure? Doesn’t anyone edit this nonsense?
The raising of pitchforks and lighting of torches seems to have already begun. I hope this Russian scare does not lead to the kinds of terrible consequences as we experienced in the McCarthy era.
Where’s Seth Rich??
USG and MSM throw balls and balls of lies, and The Intercept plays the role of fetch dog.
The explicit point of this article is to doubt and criticize claims made by the US Government. What on earth are you talking about?
If MSM reports, without evidence, that Trump beats Melania, the appropriate response is to say that there is no evidence, not to report which details are or aren’t consistent with the accusation.
But that’s not the case here: There is some information that points to Russia, and some that doesn’t. There just happens to be way more of the latter and therefor they have to examine it.
You criticism is unwarranted. The Intercept has published 3 articles on this: One pointing out anonymous whispers from the CIA are not evidence; another one demanding that Obama declassify the evidence they claim to have; and this one laying out all the public evidence, with a critical analysis of its significance. Seriously, name one outlet that reaches this level of rigor.
He might be (poorly) trying to make the point I just posted a comment making, that only looking at the evidence selected because it suggests Russian guilt, and trying to argue it doesn’t prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt is why prosecutors always get indictments against the accused. Where’s the evidence (and if you think it doesn’t exist, I have a New York bridge I’ll sell you, cheap) that points to one of the other parties that stand to see more advantage in President Trump than they would have seen under President Clinton?
of course it would be great to have more evidence declassified, but it’s not as if we’re accusing some beloved foreign leader of meddling in our affairs. it’s motherfucking russia, not santa claus. if this esquire article is to believed (http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a49791/russian-dnc-emails-hacked/) this was part of a decades-long campaign. we (the public) know that both the illinois and arizona election systems were hacked, and the hacks were traced to servers in russia. i mean, what do you want? fingerprints and semen samples?
I actually thought you were being sarcastic with “esquire article” and “beloved leader”, but now I think you meant what you said…wow… you are an idiot
agree!
We don’t no stinking wall in Texas we need a therm nuclear FIREWALL around our Internet!
Sam,
As you explain, the circumstantial evidence points to Russia. Are there any alternative theories being promoted by credible sources involving non-Russian related groups or countries involved? In the absence of proof, I think it’s important to know if there are other potential actors leaving digital footprints.
One other thing worth mentioning though is that before the DNC hired Crowdstrike, an FBI Investigator had been in touch with a DNC tech person and informed him that a ‘DNC computer was ‘calling home, where home meant Russia.'” This FBI investigator also alluded to “the Dukes” (APT29). Point is, the FBI and Crowdstrike seemingly reached a similar conclusion (though I guess that shouldn’t be too surprising since Shawn Henry worked in the FBI’s cyber division…).
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html?_r=0
It is very refreshing to see TI authors not treating Julian Assange like a sacred cow that is above criticism, like his most ardent admirers see him.
It’s more like the circumstantial evidence points to Russians. I’m sure there are hackers in Russia who don’t work for the Russian security services, just like there are American hackers who don’t work for the NSA. It’s as if someone concluded that since TheJester operates out of the US, he must be NSA or CIA.
So how do you decide if these are hacktivists or government pros? Well, they seem kind of sloppy and enjoy getting attention for their work.
Also, the material published by Wikileaks was much more interesting and consequential than anything published by Guccifer 2.0 or DCLeaks. It’s not clear that Wikileaks got most of their material from them.
Agreed, that was my intention.
Of course you would take a cheap shot at Julian.
Mom’s allowance doesn’t go as far as it used to.
Excellent piece, and considering some other Intercept publications on the topic (GG, JS, JS), brave and far more balanced as well.
To complete the cycle, as it were, there is a lot of noise concerning Putin’s attempts to destabilize western democracies. If True, it would provide a missing motive for the hacks. If false, it would force proponents of Russia’s involvement to look elsewhere. Either way, it would provide a layer of facts – pro or con – that is currently missing from most publications.
how about all whites get deported back to Europe as America is not a white country hey? America is OUR COUNTRY! the home of the native indigenous American Indians!.
Your trolling is is very subpar.
Shouldn’t be dignifying this with a response, but… ok, so the whites all leave. Are you going to kick out all the other minority groups as well?
Maybe the proof was in the 30.000+ emails that Hillary wiped out before handing over her hard disks to the FBI. Does this make her a double agent working for Putin ?
That was a different server.
Love the beauty of that tactic. Though, unfortunately, even if you succeed in making it a closed loop (Clinton orchestrating her own defeat to undermine Americans faith in their own system, with the assistance of the obvious Russian mole, Sanders, all so that if Americans don’t accept the Russian front guy, Trump as President, they’ll suspend the Constitution and name her President, and, with the Constitution suspended, the ultimate Russian sleeper agent, Hillary Clinton, will be able to claim the title President for Life completely legally) you’d not end up with the whole thing turning into a circular formation firing squad, but rather one of those loud, unending, circular dog fights.
But “good” doesn’t necessarily mean good enough to indict Russia’s head of state for sabotaging our democracy.
What’s the matter with you people??
You write words but you don’t seem to live in the real world.
Nobody is going to indict Putin for anything. No US court, no Russian, court, no international court, no court imaginable.
Whatever Putin (and agents) did or didn’t do is irrelevant!
Russia isn’t the issue.
The legitimacy of the US political system — its credibility, its integrity, its ability to respond to threats, (domestic or foreign), its truthfulness, its responsibility to the citizens, and it very existence as a political entity all matter much more that if Putin or Preibus sabotaged America’s most defining trait.
Its ability to honestly reflect and enact the collective will of the American people.
Without an honest election, there is no democracy.
Why