Few behaviors are more dangerous than escalating tensions between these two nuclear-armed powers.
The leader of the U.K.’s Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, called for a “de-escalation” of tensions between NATO and Russia, adding in a BBC interview on Thursday: “I want to see a de-militarization of the border between them.” Along with the U.S., the U.K. has been rapidly building up its military presence in the Baltic region, including in states that border Russia, and is now about to send another 800 troops to Estonia, 500 of which will be permanently based.
In response, Russia has moved its own troops within its country near those borders, causing serious military tensions to rise among multiple nuclear-armed powers. Throughout 2016, the Russian and U.S. militaries have engaged in increasingly provocative and aggressive maneuvers against one another. This week, the U.S. began deploying 4,000 troops to Poland, “the biggest deployment of U.S. troops in Europe since the end of the Cold War.”
It was in this context that Corbyn said it is “unfortunate that troops have gone up to the border on both sides,” adding that “he wanted to see better relations between Russia, NATO and the EU.” The Labour leader explained that while Russia has engaged in serious human rights abuses both domestically and in Syria, there must be “better relationships between both sides … there cannot be a return to a Cold War mentality.”
The response to Corbyn’s call for better relations and de-escalation of tensions with Moscow was swift and predictable. The armed forces minister for Britain’s right-wing government, Mike Penning, accused Corbyn of being a collaborator with the Kremlin:
These comments suggest that the Labour leader would rather collaborate with Russian aggression than mutually support Britain’s NATO allies. As with Trident, everything Labour says and does shows that they cannot be trusted with Britain’s national security.
This is the same propagandistic formulation that has been used for decades in the West to equate opposition to militarism with some form of disloyalty or treason: If you oppose military confrontation with a foreign adversary or advocate better relations with it, then you are accused of harboring secret sympathy and even support for those foreign leaders, and are often suspected of being an active “collaborator” with (or “stooge” for) them.
This lowly smear tactic was, of course, deployed over and over during the Cold War with regard to those who argued for improved relations or a reduction of conflict with Moscow, but it has been repeatedly used since then as well every time it comes time to confront a new Foreign Villain (those opposed to the invasion of Iraq were pro-Saddam, those who opposed intervention in Libya were Gaddafi apologists, those who objected to war on terror programs are terrorist sympathizers, etc. etc.).
But this template has recently become super-charged, more widely invoked than ever, as a result of the starring role Russia now plays in U.S. domestic politics, where many Democrats blame Russia for Hillary Clinton’s defeat. Putin now occupies the role of Prime Villain in Western discourse, and this Cold War rhetorical template — anyone opposing confrontation is a Kremlin operative or stooge — has thus been resurrected with extraordinary speed and ease.
The compelling justifications for Corbyn’s concerns about NATO/Russia tensions are self-evident. The U.S. and Russia have massive arsenals of nuclear weapons. As Lawrence Krauss detailed in the New Yorker in October, the two countries have come horrendously close to full-on, earth-destroying nuclear war on several occasions in the past, and the systems they still maintain are conducive to apocalyptic error through miscommunication and misperception, let alone direct military confrontation. As Krauss noted:
In general, during the Obama presidency, we have only deepened our dangerous embrace of nuclear weapons. At the moment, around a thousand nuclear weapons are still on a hair-trigger alert; as they were during the Cold War, they are ready to be launched in minutes in response to a warning of imminent attack.
It is not hyperbole to say that perhaps nothing is more reckless, more dangerous, than ratcheting up tensions between these two countries. That’s what makes it so repellent and toxic to demonize those such as Corbyn as “collaborators” or traitors merely because they oppose this escalation and belligerence. But this is the script that — once again — is quickly becoming mainstream orthodoxy in both Washington and London.
Let us, for a moment, imagine if this framework were applied consistently rather than manipulatively. Democrats have been alarmed — rightfully so — by the preliminary belligerence of Trump and his top aides toward nuclear-armed China: accepting a call from Taiwan’s president, openly questioning the decades-old “One China” policy, suggesting the U.S. would militarily intervene to prevent Chinese control over nearby uninhabited islands (the latter was also suggested by the current head of the U.S. Pacific fleet).
But applying the prevailing Russia logic to these concerns, should one not accuse these Democrats objecting to confrontation with China of being “collaborators” with and apologists for the dictatorial regime in Beijing, which imprisons dissidents and tortures ethnic and religious minorities? Should we publicly ponder whether the liberal writers demanding that Trump cease his aggressive posture are being clandestinely paid by the Chinese Politburo or merely acting as “useful idiots” for it? Should those objecting to Trump’s belligerent policies be accused of siding with a dictatorial regime over their own president and country?
Of course none of those things should happen, because it is not only rational but morally compulsory to be deeply wary of those who seek to escalate tensions between countries with large nuclear arsenals. At the very least, one should be free to debate these policies without being smeared as a traitor. That applies to China, and it applies to Russia. And those who voice such concerns should not, as Corbyn just was, have their loyalties and integrity be impugned by our new Cold Warriors.
* * * * *
For the crucial context on NATO/Russia tension that is very rarely heard in the Western press, I highly recommend these two items:
(1) This Foreign Affairs article by University of Chicago political scientist John J. Mearsheimer on the West’s relentless, aggressive march eastward up to Russian borders and its consequences.
(2) The passage of this interview with Noam Chomsky by German journalist Tilo Jung — beginning at 40:30 — that explains the crucial historical context of NATO’s march eastward toward Russia, how that is perceived in Moscow, and, most important of all, why the dangers this behavior creates are incomparable:
This is one of many sad things about how Corbyn is treated by the press and Powers that Be. Basically, he wants to do many positve things to make the world a more peaceful and helpful place for all. But Labour keeps saying that’s “too radical”. Really? A more peaceful world with happier and healthier citizens is “too radical”? Instead, the old Labour Guard wants to go back to the good old days of war criminal Blair being in charge and then having Tory Lite policies. I mean at least that’s more accceptable.
Old Labour is scared to death of anything remotely tied to the word socialist. I thought only lots of uninformed Americans were that ignorant. Maybe I should be fair. everyone has a right to their opinion. But what they don’t have a right to is to push opinions that clearly aren’t facts.
The “may not be far from the truth” trope turned on its proponent::
“Mr. Greenwald
Craigsummers occupies a waste of space. Calling craigsummers a collaborator with terrorists may not be far from the truth. Craigsummers has a long history of affinity for the “moderate rebels” linked to Al Qaeda. He was regurgitating talking points about them, and it may not be far from the truth that his ties to them are as close as ever. Their goals require that “Assad must go,” which craigsummers used to repeat when it was what he heard the elites saying. Craigsummers could not even mount a protest against ISIS brutality in Aleppo or Mosul! Craigsummers also posted a lot of propaganda against Iran. He has spoken-out against attacking ISIS:
“In my opinion, the US made a mistake by bombing ISIS in Syria since they are the best military fighting Assad” – craigsummers
craigsummers – a weak hypocrite who criticizes explanations of terrorism as justification – has offered explanations for terrorism:
“ISIS has threatened and carried out attacks against the west because the west is bombing them in Iraq and Syria.” – craigsummers
Coming from someone who is so dishonest, “because” sounds like terrorism against the west is justified.
How does the [dim-big] (dimwitted bigot) align with ISIS on foreign policy? The comments by Michael Oren, a prominent lawmaker from Israel’s governing coalition and a former ambassador to Washington (in an article titled not far from “Craigsummers is a dishonest hypocrite”):
“If we have to choose between ISIS and Assad, we’ll take ISIS.” – WSJ, March 17, 2016
In other words, the lies about “moderate rebels” failed. ISIS has geopolitical interests like in Iraq and Syria which need to be respected by the US. This is exactly in line with dimwit-bigoted thinking. Craigsummers has repeatedly summed up his dream that would support ISIS very well:
“The US also had a (real) interest in bombing the fuck out of Assad, but turned that down.”
“The US also had a golden opportunity to bomb Syria into the stone age.”
“The US passed up a golden opportunity to bomb Syria in favor of removing the chemical weapons.”
“The US even turned down a golden opportunity to bomb Assad and really set the regime back militarily. . .”
“The US turned down a golden opportunity to bomb the fuck out of the Assad regime.”
Above all else, whether it’s democracy or human rights, it’s secondary to killing brownies. Thus the dim-big mindlessly supports US domination in all areas as a sphere of influence – like in Syria. When he calls for the US to “bomb the fuck”, he could be referring to Syria or Ukraine.
Within this context, it’s much easier to understand the motives of craigsummers in reposting the same chatter (no matter how far it may be from the truth). What is of no interest as well is that the Washington elite have a dim-big dupe uncritically regurgitating their MSM propaganda. Of course, craigsummers is not driven by thought or ethics, but by worship of authority. The dim-big is never skeptical of drives for US imperialism.
Whether or not craigsummers is an ISIS collaborator, he is certainly a useless idiot.”
Jeremy Corbyn i perhaps the only responsible leader left to possibly waking us up to the craziness going on. Any sane person can see the direct consequence of rattling with weapons in an ever close proximity to Russia; the dangerous threat to the other party. Russia being forced to stay on alert for handling any attack. NATO tries to convince the gullible that this is a deterrence, a bringer of Peace to Europe. A reasoning aligned 180degree diametral to reality as we have grown so accustomed to in recent years. And so many still believe in those words.
I blame Benedict Cumberbatch’s brilliant performance as Richard the III in “The Hollow Crown” for raising up the bloodlust in medievalists and fans of “Game of Thrones” in the right wing government of the UK.
Someone sharpen the headsman’s ax!
TV has great affect.
Just read a bizarre article by Marc Ash on Reader Supported news. He apparently isn’t to fond of Glen in regards to his Russian reporting.
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/41398-trumps-progressive-enablers
Tim Weiner voices a tirade against the Agency’s myriad enemies on Reuters.com: “Commentary: Open secrets – and Trump’s wrath – will challenge new CIA chief”.
“[Lt. General Mike]Flynn was dismissed for cause in 2014 as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. He lost the confidence of his command staff, who saw him as pushing “Flynn facts” – arguably falsehoods — on warfighting and terrorism. After that, Flynn dined with Putin in Moscow, received the largesse of the Russian propaganda organ RT, and at times spoke with a messianic fervor unbecoming of an officer with 33 years in Army intelligence. He is a conspiracy-minded man who seems to believe the CIA had a barb out for him.”
That Flynn, too, is a Russian collaborator is implied.
Am I dreaming or did Obama just say the US intelligence services do not have proof Wikileaks got the e-mails from the Russians….. contradicting everything we’ve heard from them and him in the past 4 weeks !
Literally..’ there is no link between Wikileaks and the Russian hackers’ . So who leaked the e-mails ? And wasn’t wikileaks the ‘Russian ‘agent trying to influence the elections by publishing the DNC and Podesta mails ?
How does the alt-left align with Russia on foreign policy? The comments by Sergay Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, are instructive (“Lavrov: Russia inviting Trump officials to Syria talks”, al Jazeera today):
“……..Lavrov said he had been encouraged by Rex Tillerson, the incoming secretary of state, whom he cited as saying Russia’s behaviour was not unpredictable. “[That] means that we are dealing with people who won’t get involved in moralising, but will try to understand their partner’s interests,” Lavrov said. Tillerson had extensive dealings with Russia when he was the head of Exxon Mobil oil company……”
In other words, neoconservative and liberal interventionism failed and it is time to return to realpolitik. Russia has geopolitical interests like in Ukraine and Syria which need to be respected by the US. This is exactly in line with radical left thinking. Greenwald summed it up very well with his quote of As’ad AbuKhalil (“RT Host Abby Martin Condemns Russian Incursion Into Crimea – On RT”, 4-2-2014):
“…….This is what imperialism is all about: to give yourself the right to intervene in faraway places and to project power in every corner of the globe, including the arctic, and to disregard world public opinion. Imperialism is to have the temerity to lecture and hector Russia about the evils of intervention in the affairs of its neighbor, Ukraine, where the U.S. and EU are blatantly conspiring against Russian interests there………”
Above all else, whether it’s democracy or human rights, it’s secondary to world peace. Thus the alt-left opposes the EU and the US challenging Russian “interests” (i.e., domination) in Ukraine and in other areas defined by Lavrov as their sphere of influence, or their geopolitical interests – like in Syria. He calls for the US not to “moralize”. He could be referring to Syria or Ukraine. Another example is an article published in ConsortiumNews by Gilbert Doctorow who I would characterize as more of an antiwar libertarian based on a couple of his articles. He writes (“Trump’s Remaking of US Foreign Policy” https://consortiumnews.com/2017/01/16/trumps-remaking-of-us-foreign-policy/):
“………What we are witnessing is a shift to a new strategic, geopolitical paradigm…………But Trump’s statement shows that he is focused on the big picture, on the triangular relationship between Washington, Moscow and Beijing that he believes to be of vital importance in keeping the peace globally, rather than on some amorphous reliance on expanding democracy globally on the unproven assumption that democracies among themselves are peace-loving……”
Doctorow really just repeats the words of Lavrov. Doctorow calls for realpolitik throwing goals like spreading democracy (and presumably, human rights) under the bus by recognizing geopolitical interests – especially among the big three – the US, China and Russia. The endgame is similar to the UN where the big three have special veto power over the entire world keeping the peace.
Within this context, it’s much easier to understand the goals of Assange and Russia to undermine HRC by hacking the DNC and publishing the emails (whether they actively worked together or not). What is very interesting as well is that an alt-right leader like Putin and an alt-left radically anti-western “journalist” like Assange agree on the endgame. Of course, Putin is not driven by world peace, but by Russia’s geopolitical interests. The alt-left is highly skeptical of Trump, but decided that anything is better than Hillary Clinton who promised more of the same US imperialism and confrontations with Russia as previous administrations. This is what I refer to as backdoor support for Trump. This was a huge gamble with backsliding of US relations with China already taking center stage – and the inauguration of the unpredictable Trump is still two days away!
(Craigsummers reporting from the new US embassy in Jerusalem)
Woooow Craig, congratulations you showed all your cards. i agree with most of the above except the part of Wikileaks being connected to the Kremlin and the DNC hacking by Russia accusation. As you are in Jerusalem please say hello to ex-agent C. Steele…
I was just handed the Jerusalem Dossier by Steele. Hmm, seems as though Netanyahu has some embarrassing pictures of Trump. I wonder if that has anything to do with moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. Maybe this would go a lot faster if world leaders would come forth that don’t have embarrassing data on Trump.
If you believe that the purpose of the (mosttly unlawful) US interventions throughout the world has been to further democracy and human rights, you’ve got a problem from the gitgo.
I happen to come from a region that has seen the US support, and in several cases forcefully install, bloody dictatorships simply because they happened to be sympathetic to american interests — including economic ones.
The US has long practiced grab-what-you-can-in-anyway-you-can realpolitik whereever and whenever it could. Pretending it’s otherwise doesnt help your arguments much.
“……….If you believe that the purpose of the (mosttly unlawful) US interventions throughout the world has been to further democracy and human rights, you’ve got a problem from the gitgo……”
You are right. I would have a problem, but I never said it nor do I believe it.
“…….I happen to come from a region that has seen the US support, and in several cases forcefully install, bloody dictatorships simply because they happened to be sympathetic to american interests — including economic ones……”
True enough, but not always the case. The cold war was an idealistic confrontation with communism. The US did not have a lot to gain economically in Korea or Vietnam (except maybe cheap T-shirts). Unfortunately, US policies were mostly destructive in South America. Additionally, the US certainly supports Saudi Arabia – hardly a bastion of democracy. On the other hand, democratization in Taiwan and South Korea was supported by the US. The same in Israel. Kosovo is an independent state.
Geopolitics rules for the most part.
Thanks Helios.
Fair enough. I think we’re on the same page on this one.
Of course, if the pursuit of our naked interests happens to coincide with the advancement of democracy and human rights, we’re delighted and loudly proclaim the fact as just another example of our morality-driven foreign policy.
Unfortunately, that is only rarely the case. And even when it is, the suspicion is that it’s our OTHER coinciding interests that actually motivate us.
Taiwan is a good example. We’ve been backing them since Chian Kai Shek’s time, when it certainly wasn’t democratic. But it always suited and still does, our policy of China containment.
“……..Unfortunately, that is only rarely the case. And even when it is, the suspicion is that it’s our OTHER coinciding interests that actually motivate us……”
“…….Unfortunately, that is only rarely the case. And even when it is, the suspicion is that it’s our OTHER coinciding interests that actually motivate us……”
A good example of that is when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. We liberated Kuwait, but we really were driven by Saddam threatening the Saudis (Oil) and confiscating Kuwaiti oil. Of course, the liberation of Kuwaitis and protecting geopolitical interests are not mutually exclusive endeavors – but your point is valid.
Thanks.
Since Julian Assange will turn himself into US authorities anyway, there should be no fear of extradition to the US if he returns to Sweden to face rape charges. We can now finally determine whether it was extradition to the US or the rape charges that Assange really feared…..
Don’t be stupid, craig. You know perfectly well Mr. Assange is an Australian citizen and, afaict, has never been charged with anything in the U.S. [yet]. Plus, Trump ‘loves wikileaks’ … like Putin loves Trump.
And the ‘rape charges’, as I’m sure you know, are more about whether Julian … ‘wrapped it before he tapped it’. Nothing unseemly.
*see, this is why people don’t like you
“…….And the ‘rape charges’, as I’m sure you know, are more about whether Julian … ‘wrapped it before he tapped it’. Nothing unseemly…….”
I don’t know that at all. As far as I can tell, this might just be a part of the WikiLeaks “war on women”. Is there anything that the US can charge Assange with? I uncertain about that also (unless it can be shown that he conspired with Russian intelligence).
>”I don’t know that at all.”
That’s why I’m here. .. to tell you things like this, craig.
*Evidently, Swedish law is kind of a quirky about not wrapping it (before tapping it.) without ‘consent’.
You mean the well known “no wrap and clap” law. The “without consent” does sound a lot like rape. According to Wikipedia:
“…….The legal definition of rape in Sweden is described in chapter 6 in the Swedish Penal Code.[1] Historically, rape has been defined as forced sexual intercourse initiated against a woman or man by one or several people, without her/his consent.[2] In recent years, several revisions to the definition of rape have been made in Swedish law,[3] to now not only include intercourse, but comparable sexual acts initiated against someone passive—incapable of giving consent—because they are in a vulnerable situation, such as a state of fear or unconsciousness.[4]……..”
The Incredible Shrinking New York Times answers its own distress signal, from inside its echo chamber, calls for more “diversity” to attract readers to its progressive fake news:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/business/new-york-times-newsroom-report-2020.html
For those interested, Alex Emmons has a post up: President Obama Commutes Prison Sentence For Chelsea Manning
the chelsea stuff is OT
in any case she is a clear and present danger
executive orders are again used without remorse
why can i only reply to myself
fie!
“why can i only reply to myself”
——————————————————————–
Oh Honey ,, I know that feeling !!
Fuck you very much.
pffft
ha ha now i can reply again
i am pleased by this trivial success
In response to the questions about what Assange said, when, about Manning’s clemency and Assange’s extradition:
Yeah, but there’s an earlier pledge to do it:
http://fortune.com/2016/09/16/julian-assange-chelsea-manning/
In any case, it’ll be a fascinating, nail-and-quick-bite inducing, revealing denouement when he finally makes his decision.
I expect that, at a minimum, his lawyers will insist on seeing any indictment before allowing him to surrender, and we don’t actually know if there is an indictment.
For one thing, it’s not at all clear what US law(s) WikiLeaks could be charged with violating.
Yeah, it’s a bit of a mystery how the US can prosecute an Australian citizen who has never even been a US resident because his organization publishes documents they did not filch themselves which were leaked to them by others.
No doubt some talented federal prosecutor will perform a Jedi mind trick which convinces a court that US jurisdiction extends over the entire area of the earth. Because…exceptional nation.
So let me get this straight .A tweet tweeted and another tweet re-tweeted Assange has said ” If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case ”
TWEET TWEET TWEET !!!
Anyone on this board care to diascus the differences between “commute ” “clemency ” and “pardon” ?
“Clemency” for $200, M`bone..
How much for a full pardon ?
Like Milhouse got from his swiftly appointed VP Gerald Ford ?
Glenn will be on Greta van Sustern’s MSNBC show at 6 p.m. discussing Chelsea.
oh my mistake, he didn’t pardon her, he commuted her sentence.
i’m glad he pardoned her, after influencing the military to convict her (not that needed it). better late than never.
Excrement presenting in human form, Judith Miller, has the fucking gall to ask “how many people died because of Manning leak?” None.
How many thousands are dead or maimed because of Miller’s shilling for — and legitimizing — the lies that took us to Iraq?
The answer to the latter question is, “hundreds of thousands, at the very least.” Depending upon how one calculates, it could easily be in the millions.
Twitter has been chucking pies at Judith Miller’s face for the last hour. I am loving it so very much.
That would be the one that illustrates the definition of “shameless” in the pictorial edition of the OAD, right?
She is under Shameless with a capital letter! She takes the title!
I’m going to surmise from this post that you are not that friendly w/ Judith.
Brilliant retort !
Judith can and should rot in hell.
Wow. .. that there is what you call world class cognitive dissonance, sis.
*that’s got to be worth at least a Trump Ambassadorship to somewhere?
Evidently, leniency for cuz Snowden will not be entertained during the closing moments of the Obama Admin. but Assange may breath free? … I wonder if Trump still ‘loves wikileaks’?
Obama has commuted Chelsea Manning’s sentence. She will be released from prison in May.
Wonders never cease, and I’m very grateful for that.
Oh. My. God. I truly did not think he would do this. I can almost think well of the man.
I am so, so happy, having teary eyes, just imagining Chelsea getting out — knowing she’s getting out — and being received into the warm embrace of her closest admirers. She can perhaps now heal.
Had it been almost anyone else reporting this, P, I wouldn’t believe it.
Glenn’s clemency letter.
Glenn’s clemency letter – part two. ;-)
Yes, thanks for that. Saw it shortly after seeing a tweet bout the clemency.
What’s really interesting is seeing how many die-hard Clintonites are NOT happy with this. Oliver Willis is pouting (not that one can tell). :-)
Well Awright Barry !!!
AWESOME !!!!!
I’m almost a Democrat again !
How come May ??
RELEASE CHELSEA NOW !!!
I’m almost a Democrat again !
Perish the thought. ;-}
Excellent news.
I can’t believe it!! I didn’t think he had it in him.
I still think he looks at it as a political benefit to himself. But I suppose I’ll take it.
Congratulations to Chelsea Manning!!
Political ,, Categorical . ,, W ho cares !!!
Question is :
How much can Barry lay down on the residing bastards in Congress before he leaves .
The CIA must be bouncing of the walls in Foggy Bottom .
Agreed. This is a legacy-driven decision. He knows how history always turns out on these things. She was tortured and driven to suicide on his watch, so…
Wow. Surprised and extremely grateful.
Atta boy.
Excellent.
Snowden excused next, with any luck. And Assange.
Probably way too much to hope for, but there are several days remaining.
I doubt this has anything to do with Assange’s offer since it would require legal and transfer arrangement agreed between the parties and Assange would have surely announced it himself, as well.
Hopefully this is just a clean clemency with no strings attached.
It is unclear to me why the order would not be executed until May, however, rather than immediately.
From another article, this may offer a clue:
“Her attorney had argued her sentence exceeded international legal norms, and she has twice attempted suicide.”
As we know, Mr. Obama is all about “international legal norms”.
First let me remind this board of the diffenowden between Snowden and Assange .
Snowden has been charged with Espionage ( a WWI Act ) by the Federal Government of The United States (aka CIA )
Assange has been charged with Rape by the Government of Sweden ( i.e Condomless Sex on a Sleeping Victim )
Both Governments are run by THE GLOBAL TERROR TEAM ( aka US/ UK/ISRAEL GOVERNMENTS !!!
God only knows what remains of Chelsea .
If I was Assange any deal I ‘d make would include a clause that said ” No extradition to the controlled US Government ” and said clause should be made available over the internet , TV , and radio world wide ” before he signs .
Snowden should stay put .
This hardly needs reminding. No one has suggested Assange or Snowden are identically charged. Only that they are identically in legal jeopardy for related acts of “disclosure” of US classified documents, either by public charges or “cooperation” of a friendly government pursuing him on petty, bogus charges. That the Brits would spend millions of pounds to keep him under close guard suggests the Swedish “rape” charges are no more than a pretext to trap him.
Since the US has declined to state whether Assange is under secret indictment, it’s reasonable to presume he is until the US denies it. And even then….
Snowden, is charged under the Espionage Act and, like Manning, he has admitted to that criminal conduct. Without recourse to any possible defense, I agree he’d be nuts to ever leave Russia unless he has a credible deal he accepts as a reasonable price for returning which is signed in Trump’s won personal blood.
The best deal possible would hold Snowden harmless in exchange for fully detailing to the USG what he took so they’ll know what other things they can continue lying about.
The worst case for Manning was 30 more years in a high-security prison, now commuted.
But unlike Manning, Snowden holds the ultimate trump card because the US don’t have him in custody and don’t dare attempt to kidnap him. The worst case for him is that he stays in Russia under continuing “temporary” residency visas and leads something like a normal life. Probably not possible that he’ll ever get official “permanent” residency because that requires official signature by Putin, who doesn’t need the grief.
will wonders never cease. leakers everywhere must be dancing in the streets
and yet we must be ever vigilant to the dangers of leaking
Obama commutes Chelsea Manning’s sentence. Will be freed in May.
Now we get to see if Assange will follow through on his acceptance of extradition to the US – granting that such an order exists at all.
That was the first thing that came to my mind as well. :-s
Well, after the jubilation of hearing the news. Was so excited I didn’t even see Helios’ comment until after hitting the submit button.
Well, that comment turns things around and makes one wonder if this was a less than altruistic move by Obama, who perhaps decided to sacrifice the little fish to use as bait to catch the big one.
In any case, although a good man’s word is sacred, if I were Assange I’d think long and hard before giving myself up.
Or is his word sacred? Let’s not forget there was a little matter abt some $250,000 that somebody put up as bail (or similar) to guarantee he would show up in court and he decided instead to take refuge in the E. embassy.
A group of people each pledged on the order of £15-20K.
Almost all of them could well afford it (for many, it was a trifling sum), few have complained and the most vocal, e.g., John Pilger, have remained ardent supporters of Assange.
To the best of my knowledge, the only individual who “stood surety” for Assange who has expressed a serious complaint is Jemima Goldsmith Khan. She pledged £20K, IIRC and has an estimated personal net worth of £100 million.
When , pray tell , did Assange say he would accept extradition to the US ?
And please ,, no God-Damded Link ,, either you know or you don’t !!
GOT IT ?
OK. No God-Damned Link. Middle of last September.
You are full of shit !!!
Yup. Got it.
Mud`b..
Correspondence came via twitt’a on the 12th of Jan (2:40 pm):
“If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case”
@wiki leaks
For whatever that is worth..
Ratcheting up tensions between nuclear powers is obscenely reckless: Bill Perry Is Terrified. Why Aren’t You? -How an 89-year-old cold warrior became America’s nuclear conscience.
This bullshit hysteria about Russia, Trump, and “Kremlin stooges” isn’t amusing — which I admittedly have tended to see it as — when one considers William Perry’s learned message. (So far no serious reputational or career consequences have flowed from this particular smear, but if they did, that also would not be funny.)
The human race annihilating itself because Mr. Podesta succumbed to a phishing attack is a little bit funny. No other species has gone extinct in such a novel way.
“No other species has gone extinct in such a novel way”
….nor with such wilding enthusiasm.
suicide by cop
the struggles and pain of life
war gives the peace of death
the new good medicine for the twisted souls
That sounds like a plot outline by John Twelve Hawks meeting Cormac McCarthy.
“…….This bullshit hysteria about Russia, Trump, and “Kremlin stooges” isn’t amusing……”
You forgot Assange Mona. But isn’t that why Assange undermined HRC? It was not simply about revenge against HRC. He wanted to lessen the threat of nuclear destruction. Can we not say the same about the motivation of Russia to undermine HRC by hacking the DNC? It simply was about saving the world from the militaristic west and the threat of nuclear destruction.
We should go back to the good old days where each superpower had an area of interest which served as a buffer. The days of US maintaining their “influence” in South America and Russia their “influence” in Warsaw Pact countries was simply the good old days of geopolitics. Everyone was happy back then.
READERS: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Republican who had said he was voting for Trump. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
Hey ,,wait a minute on that ” Everyone was happy back then.” crap .
I was in the eight grade and my teacher , Sister Leona , came in crying .
Her parents were caught in Czechoslovakia ( how’s that for a spell check , eh ) . It was 1951/52 and I think a savage named Stalin was might have still been at the wheel !!
Mudbone
That’s not the story you will hear from the alt-left. They may not have been perfectly happy in the east, but they surely had it far better than propagandized American population. The Soviets never pretended to have elections so the population knew where it stood, whereas in the US, the “deep state” allowed elections, but just controlled the outcome. WE never knew better……
Take care
We’re starting to re-invent them.
yep. “it’s the economy, stupid”. Arms and war have become an economy. Lotsa people, build build build, and where is the enjoy enjoy enjoy? Nowhere to be found, build to use to build more – that is the dictate of the current currency system. The real problem is that people do not know how to rationalise comfort and life to enjoy doing NOTHING.
Well Barb , if we only had a little more money ,, Right ?
To our sisters, to our brothers, to a great people across the Atlantic
There are rarer proofs of liberty than when the smallest of voices can stand up and denounce the most powerful authority within a super power. So it is with no small pleasure that my tiny voice gets to say President Elect Trump’s comments on about the EU were deeply repugnant to me, and, I’m sure, the vast swath of thinking Americans.
While people of good conscience, knowledge and reason can disagree about the placement of US military forces, almost any where in the world, no such persons can disagree with the importance of the EU.
The EU is a great light in our time. It is a light of reason, in a time, when the fundamentals of rational thought are again being assailed by corrupt and powerful interests. It is light of cooperation between great and diverse cultures and peoples, demonstrating the hope, prosperity, and power humanity may yet achieve, when it puts aside its inane and petty differences. It is a light of self-awareness: humanity is one; we are all entitled to the same basic rights and dignities of person. It is a light of historical witness, for how many human follies, calamities of hubris, and horrors of hatred and ignorance are buried below its ancient cobble stones?
In truth, my faith in the US has been shaken, by our recent election, but my faith in the diverse people of the EU stands resolute, and I thank them and praise them, as they are now called upon, in this time, to stand united against the growing dangers to liberty, reason, and dare I say, polite discourse and simple facts.
With my whole heart Europeans,
a humble brother.
Resist!
This reply from a former head of state should be echoed often and loudly in reply to such rosy sentiments:
“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
— Mikhail Gorbachev
There was a time when this man was regarded to be about as serious as a heart attack.
The EU as it’s commonly presented is a good idea. However, in practice, it’s far from good. According to “Father of the Euro” Robert Mundell, it’s designed to force austerity on its members. We can see the draconian effects of EU orders on the people of various nations from Greece to Spain to Cyprus who are forced to comply with these measures.
Further, as Wikileaks has revealed, a major component of the EU’s refugee policy involves attacking of refugee vessels. Yes, you heard me right. They even sought UN approval for it.
Lastly, the EU has become yet another voice for “territorial integrity” and against self-determination, be it outside the EU (Crimea, Novorossiya, South Ossetia, Abkhazia) or inside the EU (Scotland, Catalonia, Euskadi, etc.).
I backed Brexit for all those reasons. Better austerity imposed by elected Tories (who can either get tossed out- or fled from in the case of Scotland and Wales) than austerity imposed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. It’s a shame that Brexit has been championed more by racists and similar bigots.
So is it only “collaboration” if I collaborate with the Russians, or is it also collaboration, if I do it with the Saudis, or the Israelis?
+10.
What about when ‘we did it’ with Saddam Hussein?
The elevation of a vehemently anti-choice, War-on-Terror CIA operative into liberal icon has been one of the year’s fascinating developments.
The extreme sickness of today’s liberal Democrats.
Former spook McMullin, as an “independent politician” (per Wikipedia) is apparently immune from the “but he’s not a Democrat!” millstone flung so often around Bernie’s neck.
We’re seeing what’s needed: they’re outing themselves to confirm what many (especially new and younger voters) have already determined: what democrats were decades ago they’re not now, and the voters are rejecting it.
They’re losing the party they’ve made for themselves at the expense of the rest of us. Here’s another example of this myopia, from investment banker Alan Patricof.
and
More pablum at the link above.
Democrats are becoming even more Republican Lite than they already were, and Clintonism had already pulled the party way to the right. Now it’s really overt.
Except for the Bernie Sanders cohort. Democrats are clearly banking (ahem) on picking up enough Trump-induced disaffected Republicans — as Hillary gambled in campaign ’16 — so that even FDR-level Dems have no home, much less socialists having one in a major party.
There really is a major political realignment, and even revolution, afoot. The under-35s are mostly not going to go with the neoliberals and they have the most energy, but not the money. This is gonna get even more down and dirty, but the war is necessary.
Another good example would be the recent Intercept article on how Sanders worked on a law allowing for imports of medicines- and how Corey Booker defeated it. (Ironically, TRUMP is calling for reducing costs by dealing with pharmaceutical companies.)
Another good example involving an ex-Democrat is the endorsement of Betsy DeVos by Joe Lieberman.
And don’t get me started on Patrick Murphy…
Who needs The Onion when we’ve got… Alan Patricof?
“These comments suggest that the Labour leader would rather collaborate with Russian aggression than mutually support Britain’s NATO allies.”
This is a nugget of typical argument by warmongers that there is only one path available (“ours” or “theirs”) and to propose any other path implies “collaboration with the enemy”.
At risk of being labeled a Nazi sympathizer by some fruitcake, this reminder, once again:
Göring: Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
This is no longer true:
You simply call it not-war, e.g. a “police action,” and voila! The president does as s/he pleases. We never went to war in Vietnam, you know.
“Original intent” is a great jurisprudential and political idea, except when it gets in the authoritarian, warmongers’ way.
None of which should detract from the truth of Göring’s observation: “…the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
Yes, that limit was real when Göring said it, but no longer.
Shirking by Congress of its constitutional duties delivers power into the hands of one person (regardless of party) and makes the danger of war not only more possible but more likely.
The American government was not designed to depend on election of saints to power but rather to survive election of those who plainly are not.
interesting observation,you
our military have become world police
and our police have become local military
maybe hell has risen
I thought this was interesting, and a fair analysis by Gary Younge.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/16/how-barack-obama-paved-way-donald-trump-racism
Many things to like and admire about Pres. Obama. And by comparison to someone like Donald Trump, Pres. Obama’s administration will go down as having done some valuable things together with Congress during his two terms.
But in a time where serious reformation of America’s foreign policy goals-methods, domestic policies (not that domestic and foreign are unrelated) and economic worldview was needed, Pres. Obama’s administration and the Democratic party in Congress came up woefully short both for lack of will, lack of courage and lack of imagination. Of course that isn’t altogether their fault, as they have to deal with a modern GOP that is living in an alternate reality and desire for a revanchist past and they have a significant rabid minority who know how to play the long game.
I guess we’ll see if the adage is true that sometimes things have to get much worse before they can get better.
Hey pal ,,, you now have local police being armed by the Pentagon . You now have people being jailed under a WWI Espionage Act . You now have video nerds in Foggy Bottom playing ” Bomb That Wedding Party ” .
I voted for Barack twice . I gave $575 and went door to door for Bernie Sanders .
I will never participate again in this scam called American Democracy .
I did not vote in the past election . THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS CAMPAIGN turned me stomach .
The idea that this corrupt to the core government can be reformed
is insane* .
* INSANITY———-DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT !!! —-Al
But those two terms sure do look good before to the prospect of even one term from Trump.
Mona
“…….This is false. You introduced the topic of anti-Zionists and terror. Specifically, you sought to smear Jeremy Corbyn for his position that the UK government makes a mistake by designating Hamas as a terrorist organization (because of the legal consequences that flow from that)…….”
Nothing could be further from the truth Mona. I never mentioned “Zionist” or “terror”. I said that Corbyn referred to Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends” which indicates how radical he is. The discussion was about Corbyn. You redirected the thread toward Zionism. That was your goal (and obsession). You read a new anti-Zionist book and you are excited to tell everyone. Just don’t lie and tell me I redirected this thread. You did (and you still are).
Thanks.
Why are you bringing a purely interpersonal squabble to the top of the thread in a standalone post? This is why I usually ignore you.
You’re now lying by grossly misstating the sequence of events, something I had not seen you do before. (Any can see for themselves by observing his initial comment and my immediate reply that I appropriately stayed on the topic of smears against Jeremy Corbyn, the topic of the article above.)
Except as it serves the interest of truth by responding with fact-based material and arguments for the benefit of others, I now revert to ignoring you. Zionists regularly lie or otherwise engage in duplicity, and seek to misdirect others away from the ugly truth about their ideology and behavior. Don’t let them: When indicated, ignore them.
Tch ,tch , Mona . That ignore them bit again ,, eh ?
Ever try to get rid of a roach nest by ignoring it Mona ? A rat nest ? A nest of wealthy unsatisfied control freaks ?
The problem with ignoring a problem
is a problem !!!
Don’t worry Mud Mona never ignores them she just wants others to do when she indicates. You should listen to her, she is after all a personal friend of Glenn’s so her indication is worth something. too funny.
I love how you all think you are doing something by being key board commandos. Well I got a job to get to so I will take my leave.
Yes, you should absolutely give support to Mudbone. He’s pissed that I reported his (now deleted) “joke” about Jews and lampshades. But then, antisemites have always been the Zionists’ best friends. Zionists have a very long history of allying with and supporting them, including supporting Nazi Germany.
Oh Mona ,,,
Using Gil G that way is so like you .
Afraid ?
BTW : Anyone that thought that was a “JOKE” is dumber than a LAMPSHADE !!!~
Gawd, you really are as thick as two very short planks, aren’t you?
antisemite =anti jew ?
antisemitic=anti jewish ?
What the hell is a Semite ? Is it like a Termite ?
And I guess old Mona is going to report me again !
But she’s will never answer the simple questions—
If you mean JEW why don’t you say JEW ?
If you mean JEWISH why don’t you say LIKE A JEW ?
Oh ,, its not PC lingo ,, right darlin ?
@Gil G———-Mona’s OK except when she steps into that I’m An Educated Intellectual pulpit . As if there are not educated intellectuals that will lie and murder for cash or out of fear .
Education and IQ not withstanding , I now realize that the old adage ” YOU CAN ALWAYS BY THE BRAINS ” is true . You only have to make certain that the goods you purchase fear you !!
OK ,, the time has come . I want people on this board to define what they mean , in two* lines or less , by the following nouns :
1———-SEMITE
2———-JEW
3———-JEWISH ( is it a noun or an adjective ? )
4———-TERROR
5———-ZIONIST
All are welcome ,, but please no goggling ! Your personal meaning is what I’m looking for .
**If it’s more than two lines it shows personal confusion .
I’ll give this a try. I’m willing to expose my knowledge or lack thereof without the aid of internet searches:
1. Semite: A member or descendant of the Semitic tribes, defined as a specific people group roughly associated with the Jewish people and the nation of Israel.
2. Jew: One who ascribes to the tenants of Judaism, deriving authority from the Torah and relying on Rabbis for interpretation of how the world works.
3. Jewish: A description of the genetic pool of people know as Aszkani (sp) Jews or people of varying percentages of that genetic ancestry.
4. Terror: A complete, paralyzing fear caused by a stimulus or held belief.
5. Zionist: One who believes that the scattered Jewish people have an inherent right to the landmass of the approximate ancient nation of Israel.
How did I do?
A very interesting exercise in the limits of my knowledge without the aid of the interwebz.
Political Zionism is the ethno-religious supremacist, fascist creed rooted in the same 19th century “blood and soil” nationalism that fed, e.g., Nazism. Their “soil” is, as you suggest, the land now called Israel, but also Greater Israel.
B
You would have gotten an A except for #3 , i.e. Aszkani (sp) Jews ,
which suggests some plagiarism on your part .
FROM Merriam-Webster and correct:
Definition of Semite
1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples
2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
this war-mongering, witch-hunting, devious behaviour is not only coming from right-wing Tory pigs, but also from the Labour party where you can find plenty of MPs who support war and militarization in Europe against Russia. But, the most worrying part of this affair is that even those who call themselves liberal-left media ( the guardian, independent), openly supporting war on Syria and, doing Nato propaganda.
The funny thing is, when the inevitable happens after all this anti-Russian propaganda ( i call it Russo-phobia ), the same news outlets who spread hatred and war, will call ‘commonsense’ or bark about ‘peace’.
I also feel sorry for Corbyn who has to condemn ( he is obliged to) Russia for its actions in Syria where it is the only genuine force fight international Islamist terrorism.
Unfortunately from now on whoever calls for easing the tension in eastern Europe will be called ‘Putinbot’, ‘Russian agent’ or ‘traitor’. I am sure the British government is already watching and taking notes on those who sympathize with Russia on certain areas such as Ukraine, eastern Europe and the Middle East.
It’s worth noting that there are Labourites like former Scottish Labour head Jim Murphy who are members of the Henry M. Jackson Society (Named for one of the pioneer neocons -One of the few who was not a Trotskyite). Remember the infamous statement of Bobby Jindal’s regarding “no-go zones”? He made the statement speaking to that group.
As for the media, Murdoch owns Sky and the BBC has gone downhill precipitously since the Hutton whitewash resulted in Gilligan and Dyke being effectively forced out.
@ Mona
Sorry my reply function no longer works and cannot see photos attached to articles.
And that is precisely why I stopped watching or listening to Rachel Maddow a long time ago. Most of her work now is inane vapid fluff, and that’s when she’s even attempting to act like an actual journalist which isn’t very often.
I mean this is all you need to know about her:
Now that is not to suggest that I have some huge problem with identifying with being an Eisenhower Republican by comparison to the GOP of today, but Rachel Maddow never has been and never will be a “progressive” or “left” in any sense of either word.
She’s a corporatist centrist liberal militarist American exceptionalist, and her analysis of politics is weak sauce. Always has been. Watching her fawn all over Hillary Clinton during the couple of interviews she got with her was really gross. Only thing I’ve ever really liked about her is that she periodically gives a platform to Glenn.
She’s not really even an “academic” except in the sense she earned her PhD as a Rhodes scholar at Oxford. She was already doing radio before she earned it, and has never to the best of my knowledge taught for any length of time at any university or college, ever.
Her on-air persona is sickeningly chipper and has always annoyed me. Now that she’s become such an overt tool I cannot tolerate it at all.
Once upon a time she and Greenwald were buds; I think that’s long over. (For one thing, I got the Jimmy Dore link from his tweet.)
Let’s not beat around the bush. She sucks. Maddow blows. When was the last time anybody learned anything new from her show?
She took a side during the primaries, and it wasn’t the side of Bernie.
“Jeremy Corbyn Accused of Being Russian “Collaborator” for Questioning NATO Troop Build-Up on Border”.
According to this article I am a Russian collaborator. !Vow! Everyday I discover something new about myself. Amazing.
Undercover investigation into Israeli espionage and conspiracies against politicians and activists in the UK
Gil G asks:
Like many, Gil’s ignorance could be cured by actually viewing this 4-part Al Jazeera investigative documentary (it’s about 2 hours long in total). An Israeli diplomat just resigned in disgrace after plotting to “take down” British politicians with smear campaigns, while a British Zionist in the Labour Party is caught brazenly lying about another party member, falsely accusing her of antisemitic statements.
See Zionists prattling about the need for “safe spaces” where they are not made to hear anything that makes them “uncomfortable.” Anything that does make them uncomfortable, we are told, is by definition “antisemitic.”
Do watch the entire fascinating thing.
Bejing stooges abound
The always reasonable John Bolton wants to confront nuclear-armed China. He took to the editorial pages of The Wall Street Journal to advocate allying with Taiwan and “revisit” the “one-state China” question.
Democrats have proceeded to behave as stooges for Bejing by calling this belligerence dangerous. These subversives must be routed out!
“Be[i]jing stooges abound”
Yes they do. DailyBeast has this gem.
They even quote Kissinger who reminds us, of course, what happens with appeasement …
I expect the next article by Matty Schwartz (he’s gotta be the legitimate son of Jon Schwarz, I’d drop the T too) will be about the need to confront China militarily.
I’m Canadian, so I guess that already makes me a “Commie” in the eyes of many Americans (lol!), so no surprise when I say that your Prez et al. especially Bolton are a bunch of psychotic dilettantes who shouldn’t be trusted with a laser pointer let alone access to nukes!
No, Hugh, it only certifies that you are likely sane. Not to suggest a sane perspective is always relevant in web-level discussions of US policy or politics.
The new cabinet members (horns and all) are a mixed group and will not be an echo chamber of redundant same thinking.
The military, surprisingly to some minds, know that danger very well. In my view, the more experienced senior military leaders at hand, the better. It’s the damn ignorant civilians who more frequently grow hot for war (review history to confirm this, please) and want to see it on TV — at a safe distance, of course. Half-baked strategies limited by civilians owing to “political considerations” often limit their ability to win quickly and decisively.
To assure all views (and the facts supporting them) are presented during a decision-making process, all those views must actually be vigorously represented by advocates who believe them credible. Potemkin representations delivered with faint effort can be even worse than no representation of those views at all.
Bolton is a dangerous warhawk. Hopefully he’ll be kept hooded most of the time and allowed to squawk out publicly only when it’s useful. He won’t be deciding policy, in any case.
Mr. Obama has already committed the US military to pivot to Asia (and Africa) because the challenges there will be to limit the already growing military reach of China. It isn’t a theoretical threat. It’s happening now. So the main thrust of US foreign policy has already been decided. By Mr. Obama, not by Mr. Trump.
Who controls the South China Sea threatens our vital national interests, big time, so that’s actually a reasonable call. However,…
The “see-ya-goodbye” NATO plunge puts the US at higher risk by committing it to maintain higher combat readiness in force on two fronts simultaneously, in two theaters geographically far separated from each other. It is generous to call this a rookie error.
Since the Pacific force is dominantly naval and the NATO forces are dominantly ground forces, the impact may be modest. But if shooting on both fronts were initiated in a coordinated attack, things could get interesting in a hurry.
The Russians have always controlled the Black Sea from Sevastopol and that region is in their vital national interests. Not ours.
All the Western whinging about the “loss” of Crimea is therefore a complete waste of time and attention, except in service of public performances in the Kabuki theater of politics so morons in CNN will have something to talk about.
According to Reuters
“……….U.S. President-elect Donald Trump will propose offering to end sanctions imposed on Russia over its annexation of Crimea in return for a nuclear arms reduction deal with Moscow, he told The Times of London…….. “For one thing, I think nuclear weapons should be way down and reduced very substantially, that’s part of it. But Russia’s hurting very badly right now because of sanctions, but I think something can happen that a lot of people are gonna benefit.”……”
See if I have this right. Russia invades and annexes part of a sovereign nation (violating an agreement they signed – the Budapest Memorandum). Putin militarily supports emboldened separatists in a war in Donbass killing 10,000(+) people to date. Putin is clearly attempting to destabilize the new Ukrainian government. The west sanctions Russia for their illegal and immoral aggression. Now Trump wants to lift sanctions for a nuclear agreement. What does Russia lose with this proposal? The sanctions had nothing to do with nuclear armament.
Putin will be delighted by the offer. He gives up nothing in exchange for a nuclear reduction agreement with the US. The Chinese and Mexicans must be quaking with fear over the coming trade negotiations with Trump. Jesus, what a fucking dunce.
Richard Engel behaves like a journalist, leaving Rachel Maddow uninterested and moving right along. Jimmy Dore: Journalist DEBUNKS CIA Anti-Trump B.S. & Rachel Maddow Ignores it.
” It doesn’t have to be true to blackmail “——–???
————————————————————————————————-
Geez !! She called it a wrap with that ?
Moral of story : Be wary of people making $40,000/day to give you the news !
And Rachel Maddox got her start via PBR , righgt ?
Like Groucho said,,,,,,,,,,,
” As soon as they get rich they become Republicans”
Rachel Maddox———>Truth ? Who gives a Flyin-F-Duck about the Truth ? We make our money on Perception . To hell with the Truth . GET WITH THE PROGRAM !!!!
She makes about 27,000 per episode.
Episode ?
I like your sense of humor Chief . But then again it’s probably the correct word to use for THE RACHEL MADDOX SERIES !!
BTW : What does she get for old reruns . Are they going to insert Canned Laughter ? Car Chases ? Mini Skirts ? AK-47 BANG ! BANG !
I bet old Desilu is chompin at the bit for a piece of the action .
@ Mona
just want to be sure you got a chance to respond.
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/16/jeremy-corbyn-accused-of-being-russian-collaborator-for-questioning-nato-troop-build-up-on-border/?comments=1#comment-338698
Most people fixate on the nuclear missiles ignoring the thousands of man portable nuclear weapons requiring zero need for a lauch code and infinately more capable of falling into the wrong hands (by design or otherwise).
…assuming they aren’t already in wrong hands. There were a couple “suitcase bombs” MIA at the end of the Cold War, for instance.
Noam’s “alien” perspective is enlightening, except he’s not aware that civilization on earth was created and orchestrated by extraterrestrials and has been under their control the entire time. Look around, this is what they intended. They have an agenda that includes humans battling humans perpetually. Read David Icke or Michael Tellinger to learn more.
I knew an establishment Democrat would show up to lead us in the new approach to facts and reason. Welcome.
NASTY!
I like it.
Actually you should check out who Mr. Icke says those extraterrestrials and lizard people actually are. I think his theories put him much more in line with the “zionists rule the world” crowd that are so plentiful among the fans of the TI message board.
You’d find such beliefs more understandable if you watched The Lobby. A good companion documentary, from 2009, is: Dispatches – Inside Britain’s Israel Lobby Zionist money, and thuggish behavior, too often get them what they want — both with politicians and journalists.
Oh so you think it’s understandable to believe that zionists are extraterrestrials and lizard people.
Why am I not surprised.
As I said, more understandable if you watched The Lobby. A good companion documentary, from 2009, is: Dispatches – Inside Britain’s Israel Lobby.
Oh pa-leaeaease, Gil, almost no one believes “zionists rule the world”.
Zionism is a political ideology. As such (and as have other ideologies) it has influence in the world. That a few crackpots extrapolate that to “zionists rule the world” doesn’t change that.
You really are scraping the barrel now.
Did you see what he did with my typo, e.g., “shew?” A rumination on how I’m a bad feminist because clearly I want to call women “shrews.”
He’s transparently desperate.
If this board is any indication many believe zionists rule the world.
Uh, while Icke has gone downhill, it used to be, at least, that he and most of his followers were not like that. There’s an interesting and fun passage in Jon Ronson’s “Them”, in which two people are trying to counter allegations of Icke being anti-Semitic. One is bringing up criticisms of Israeli policy by Jews, while the other is simply listing all the different types of aliens David Icke claims are on this planet. The latter one was more successful in convincing people that Icke was not necessarily anti-Semitic (“I think, when David Icke says lizards, he really does mean lizards.”), though probably also convincing them that Icke was crazy.
Of course, that was around a decade ago. Who knows how Icke is now?
Corbyn may be a Marxist at heart, but that doesn’t make him a servant of Russia or Putin. He now becomes the second major Western opposition leader being openly attacked with the blood libel of implied treason for daring to question machinations of the NATO security state.
The US and UK are the vanguard of this “peace-keeping” effort. Of course. Aren’t they always?
Obama has deliberately set this execrable process in motion, leaving it to his successor to deal with the ugly consequences as he saunters out the door and heads for the golf links on a lifetime pension. This act, alone, should remove any lingering doubt about who and what this man really is and whose interests he has faithfully served from the beginning. “Hope and change”, indeed.
Which MSM propaganda mills will now eagerly assist this effort to re-energize the evergreen pursuit of the “Forever War”? The most prominent agents provocateurs in the press have already outed themselves as willing vessels to receive whatever “anonymous” propaganda “leaks” are poured into them by the IC.
By promoting the empty “Russian hacking” meme to serve their blatant all-in political agenda during the campaign, the MSM have been necessarily obliged to promote the hyped up “Russian aggression” meme to prop it up and hype it up.
These two narratives are literally joined at the hip. To discredit one would discredit the other. “Journalists” are now hung by their own petard and cannot back away. They must continue to hack the truth with innuendos and outright fake news to save themselves being revealed as the tools they are. This tar baby smiles back at them with a wicked grin and they simply cannot get unstuck of it.
Well played, CIA!
Unfortunately the current British government are fully signed up to the neocon globalisation idea.
One of the many consequences of this is that any challenge of the prescribed narrative, means the changer must be being blackmailed by or a fully signed up sympathizer of the other side, and any views expressed, must be discredited as such.
For reasons unfathomable to me they seem to think war and conflict with Russia is better than cooperation, dialogue and a mutual agreement to work together for the betterment of us all.
Apparently the Clinton’s have decided they can no longer afford to do good deeds around the world. Via Matt Bors:
The Clinton Foundation Shuts Down Clinton Global Initiative
Perhaps PEOTUS will pick up the slack from his predecessors and create a foundation to fill the gap for all those AIDS patients who were getting their meds via CGI and to continue exploiting…I mean, “helping” those poor people in Haiti. [/s]
Your link does not get me anywhere that helps, Pedinska.
The Clinton Foundation is being shut down for only one reason :
With Hilarity’s Election Loss The Clinton Crime Family lost control of its money laundering operations in the upper circles of Global Thievery !!
Unmet promises violate honor among thieves. Vengeance is not uncommon.
The Clinton Foundation Shuts Down Clinton Global Initiative
On January 12, a WARN notice was filed with the New York Department of Labor—the main office of the Clinton Global Initiative would be closing
I’m going to just go back to putting links at the bottom of the piece. :-s
Thanks once again for supplying the proper link.
Hey Glenn,
Maybe somebody at The Intercept could do a breakdown and follow-up on the Al-Jazeera doc. That would be hell of an interesting story. It seems like most Americans are unaware of it.
That, and I very much hope they have someone review this new book, as reviewed at Mondoweiss: ‘State of Terror,’ by Thomas Suárez.
If two people ride the same bus to work, are they twins? Are they siblings? Are they even related? Does one read a newspaper while the other sleeps?
Having something in common isn’t evidence of a conspiracy or groupthink, propaganda or cluelessness. Is Corbyn appeasing, collaborating, or simply offering a political opinion consistent with his political faction?
In contrast, there’s a vibrant case of a Russian-Trump collaboration. Associates in common, refusal to criticize, secret business arrangements (loudly kept secret), counterintuitive statements by Trump and his clique, anecdotal evidence, repudiation and violation of sanctions and common interests.
Corbyn has nothing to do with any of this except in the most superficial ways.
So why is Corbyn the headline and subject of this article?
Because he rides the same bus as Trump?
Yes, there’s a Military/Security/Industrial Complex that exercises enormous (and lethal) political power in the West.
There are also giant corporations that exercise enormous (and lucrative) political power in the West.
Both have coopted public political power.
Corbyn has little to do with that except as an ordinary politician
In vast contrast, Trump is neither ordinary nor interested in proper governance.
Conflating the two men suggests some sort of unstated agenda.
“Conflating the two men suggests some sort of unstated agenda.”
um, yes. i took that to be the point being made.
with the (global) realignment of political stripes and factions, our political betters have taken the initiative to dig up the zombie-trope with the least amount of rotting flesh remaining on its bones (having been beaten to . . . well, to *death* countless times already, over generations of political in-fighting and propaganda wars) to try to make the loudest nonsensical noise amid the din and cacophony that has become political discourse.
the Fox/Rovians, having co-opted postmodern critical theory from the academic left, to turn every narrative on its head, to cast themselves as the victims, to leave a trail of deconstructed, rhetorical scorched earth so vast and loud that no one can hear themselves think . . . can now sit down and let the Democrat neo-liberal liberals, neo-neo-conservatives utterly annihilate the signal-to-noise ratio of public discourse in a desperate bid to distract from the disintegration of the whole stinking mess.
ok, so global realignment of political stripe may be a mischaracterization. is it more accurate to say that the actual and long-standing divisions in our society are finally being made inescapably clear?
Divisions ?
The natural ? Long Standing ? Like since the amoeba !
1——> Male vs Female
2——> Black vs White
or
The manufactured ? Rich vs Poor
The Natural differences can’t be changed by committee and attempts at “ONE SIZE WILL FIT ALL ” are not only dangerous but futile .
The Manufactured differences are the doings of human beings . And there were people , e.g. The Sioux , that had no rich /poor divisions .
i’m sorry, i don’t think i see your point.
Yet they had Pawnee and Crow distinctions.
And they did refer to themselves as “the human beings” (implying that all others were not human beings.
Tribalism is tribalism.
Whites and native americans distinguished one another with pejorative terms we all know from the movies or from watching American sports.
Even male/female was a bit more fluid among native Americans than the definitions imposed within a monotheistic culture where all absolutes are more or less cruelly enforced.
Show me a person’s distinctions and I’ll show you their values.
Miltonwiltmellow
“…….Conflating the two men suggests some sort of unstated agenda…….”
Corbyn has a long history in British politics with a record of opposing Nato. He was the national chair of Stop the War Coalition – a radically anti-western antiwar organization (and more as I wrote upthread). Greenwald writes about Corbyn in the above article:
“……….“I want to see a de-militarisation of the border between them.”……… “unfortunate that troops have gone up to the border on both sides,” adding that “he wanted to see better relations between Russia, NATO and the EU.” The Labour leader explained that while Russia has engaged in serious human rights abuses both domestically and in Syria, there must be a “better relationships between both sides . . . there cannot be a return to a Cold War mentality.………..”
No one wants another cold war with Russia. That is just common sense, but Greenwald disingenuously ignores the history of Corbyn in British politics. That is what is being criticized by the right in Britain. It’s the body of political work by Corbyn – not just those mostly innocent statements by Corbyn.
Trump is completely different. He is not a politician. In fact, he has no diplomatic skills what so ever. He’s a businessman – plain and simple. When interpreting what Corbyn says, one needs to think about a political agenda; when interpreting what Trump says, one needs to think about a business agenda. George Bush was a foreign policy President. Obama was a domestic President, but Trump is a business President. Was it just blind luck that Trump selected the CEO of Exxon (Tillerson) as his Secretary of State with his history of business dealings with the Russian government? Deals between Exxon and the Russian government could be worth tens to hundreds of billions of dollars if sanctions are lifted. Of course, Trump also has business ties to Russia.
There is no collaborative agenda between Trump and Corbyn, but they have common interests – détente with Russia. The far left (Assange, Greenwald, etc.) supports détente with Russia – even if it means throwing ethnic Ukrainians under the bus. This article by Greenwald is setting the table for when Trump proposes détente with Russia because Trump will come under heavy fire from the establishment in the US – and for good reason. Not only did Russia illegally annex Crimea while supporting militarily the separatists in Donbass, they interfered in the US election in 2016 specifically to undermine HRC.
Eastern and western portions of Ukraine differ markedly in ethnicity, and in Crimea, the population is 58% Russian:
MAP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Russians_Ukraine_2001.PNG
TEXT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine
Thanks, but I already recognize the ethnicity issue. Still, that is no reason to support the annexation of Crimea and support the war in Donbass.
“Was it just blind luck that Trump selected the CEO of Exxon (Tillerson) as his Secretary of State with his history of business dealings with the Russian government?”
Yeah, pretty much, actually.
Tillerson was recommended to Trump as a possible “deadlock” candidate by suggestion of both Gates and Rice:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/12/bob-gates-praises-tillerson-for-secretary-of-state-232555
There is no report that Trump asked Putin for his approval of Tillerson, but no doubt that’s necessarily implied in the minds of faithful fetishists.
“……….“Was it just blind luck that Trump selected the CEO of Exxon (Tillerson) as his Secretary of State with his history of business dealings with the Russian government?”………”
He may have been suggested by Gates and Rice. That has nothing to do with why Trump may have picked him, however. He might be a great Secretary of State, but in lieu of Trump’s potential proposal to ease sanctions on Russia for a nuclear disarmament agreement indicates there might be more behind the appointment.
“……..There is no report that Trump asked Putin for his approval of Tillerson, but no doubt that’s necessarily implied in the minds of faithful fetishists…….”
Of course, that is pure bullshit – and you know it. No one has suggested Trump asked Putin. Putin would of course without hesitation approve of Tillerson – if asked.
As one who lived through the entirety of the Cold War, let me say the enormous pile of BS people will blindly consume to prop up their own self-radicalization is as astounding as it is predictable.
Nothing new. Rinse, wash, repeat. War is the garment that never wears out, no matter how often it’s re-dyed for each new generation. And it fits a majority of people perfectly. Where it does not, it’s carefully re-tailored to suit.
The US has never not had an enemy, real or imagined, since the start of WW2.
War has since become the fashionable, national pastime having far more fans than baseball could ever hope for. Virtually every president, from Roosevelt on, has had his own favorite hobby war-horse(s), dutifully ridden hard to “protect us”.
Most of the rubes never catch as they are systematically had and bled into a bucket. The banksters get rich regardless of which side wins (pretty much like national elections) and government steadily grows more powerful. What’s not to like?
“[…] indicates there might be more behind the appointment.”
No doubt. Annoying you probably topped his list.
I would suggest that.
Well, actually I wouldn’t but not because it’s impossible as you imply, but because I don’t think the decision making flows in that direction. As I point out elsewhere, the interests of convergent factions do more than “suggest” to one another.
They collaborate.
Maybe there was a report but Deep State operative Killery Hitman killed the journalist before he/she could report it.
Maybe you should should read the links you post.
[properly formatted. I hope.}
“Maybe you should should read the links you post. […] you should probably not judge Bush era neocons as impartial and/or independent. ”
Um, I didn’t say they were either impartial or independent. Neither did the politico article.
That must be some pretty good stuff you’re smokin’.
I may be a Yank who knows more than the average American about UK politics (which is far less than the average UK person), but I know enough about Corbyn. Corbyn opposed the Iraq invasion and the bombing of Libya. Seeing the results, I can tell he’s far more credible than many politicians.
Corbyn has a body of anti-western positions. You may agree with his positions on Libya and Iraq, but that represents just two positions. By the way, I supported the Iraq invasion but opposed the no fly zone in Libya. That hardly would make me even somewhat credible in the eyes of most people here.
” By the way, I supported the Iraq invasion but opposed the no fly zone in Libya. That hardly would make me even somewhat credible in the eyes of most people here.”
Seeing as the invasion of Iraq is still on-going, with roughly 1 million dead, you are correct.
The armed forces minister for Britain’s right-wing government, Mike Penning has released a secret document proves that it was Jeremy Corbyn who shot Bambi’s mother.
That’s ridiculous. It was the Russians who shot Bambi’s mother (while Jeremy Corbyn cheered from the sidelines).
Having watched the BBC Sweeney propaganda against Trump and Putin yesterday, I am now convinced the BBC is completely infested by the British secret services pushing their own militaristic agenda.
there are only 2 types of economies
shared democratic with better efficiencies, cheaper pricing, no debt and small range of wealth differences VS feeding frenzy with price gouging, valuation fraud, huge debts and wars.
only 2.
@barabbas
Basically it’s Communism vs Capitalism in a nutshell , right ? Unfortunately most people , having been effectively brainwashed , can no longer discuss economic models independent of the associated democratic vs undemocratic , nationalistic ,labels that the state has taught them . In the USA the state brainwashes the people to believe Capitalism is Democratic and Communism is Antidemocratic while in Russia the opposite is taught . The governments of both countries however , function merely as fronts for the accrual of wealth to the wealthy .
BTW : GIVE US BARABBAS THE THIEF !!! —-Sayeth the Coin Changers to the Governor . Ha , ha . It’s the old biblical joke .
It may not necessarily be the Secret Service(s), but they are certainly establishment. (Although there are credible allegations of MI-5 involvement in the Referendum (on the “No” side, of course), and more credible allegations of BBC bias in favor of “No”.) Craig Murray is a good source on both.
I’m sorry, but some of this analysis leaves out important context. Obama tried to “reset” relations with Russia after the disastrous years of Bush II, while Medvedev was president. This came after Dick Cheney tried to convince Georgia that it could join NATO (which it wanted to do), and the Russian military responded with force. Hillary Clinton was part of the “reset” effort. Putin put himself back in charge and began to destroy the free press and inserted a new militarism into Russian society. Certainly, the US has done its share of provocation, but to somehow pretend that the US is solely responsible for the current state of tension between itself and Russia, is to discount Russia’s own actions.
In the night of 7-8 august 2008 the Georgian army attacked the capital of South -Ossetia which led to the intervention the next day by the Russian army. This is not my opinion , these are the words of H. Tagliavini the head of the official EU-fact finding mission. Furthermore the so-called reset button was more of an ‘overcharge’. Hillary even pointed out she had had a tough time looking for the right word ! RS you should try to use examples that prove your points ,not the opposite.
Obama or at least the CIA with Obama’s blessing has continued to fund Chechen terrorists and organised a coup in Ukraine. He has disregarded the nuclear agreement with Russia and tried to cut the link between Russia and the Middle Eastern countries and particularly Syria where Russia had a naval base. What Obama said isn’t what he has done. Furthermore Obama has had the biggest most punitive crackdown on whistle blowers in US history as well as murdering thousands of innocent people around the world with his drone strikes and dirty wars in Africa. If Putin was half as brutal as Obama he would indeed be a war criminal.
you are full of maneur.
US foreign policy is a complete fraud upon America and is a clear and present danger to the American economy.
NATO is a bloated beached whale.
You will lose.
“Certainly, the US has done its share of provocation”—-.RS
________________________________________________________
This has got to be the All Time Winnah of
THE UNDERSTATEMENT AWARD
Here’s an example of how Obama and Clinton “reset” relations with Russia.
On March 29, 2010, two terrorists detonated suicide bombs on the Moscow Metro system, killing 40. Hillary Clinton’s response was, “I was in Moscow earlier this month, and I know the resilience and determination of the Russian people. The United States stands with them today and every day in solidarity against violent extremism in all its forms.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_2010_Moscow_Metro_bombings
A different message was being sent from Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. One article focused on criticism of then-PM Vladimir Putin, calling for President Medvedev to fire him.
http://www.rferl.org/a/In_Wake_Of_Metro_Bombings_Putins_War_On_Terror_Is_Under_Fire/1998111.html
Another article seriously equated the bombing with the Mathias Rust incident (Which killed nobody, but embarrassed the USSR greatly.)
http://www.rferl.org/a/A_Mathias_Rust_Moment_For_The_Siloviki/1997145.html
RFE/RL is run by the Broadcasting Board of Governors. The ex-Officio chair of that board is the Secretary of State- who just happened to be Hillary Rodham Clinton. (Those with good memories and who either look beyond the mainstream media or look into foreign broadcasting will note that Voice of America (also overseen by the BBG) was far from impartial in its coverage of the election, giving negative coverage to both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.)
What is the fear?
who owns that?
who benefits?
i do not fear the people of Russia.
Russians do not fear the people of the US.
Wallstreet fears public ownership of public resources.
Military fears being branded the useless they are.
And the thieves who want to rob US threaten us with the extortion of branding US as not fearing whom they want US to fear.
But that’s what thieves do.
sorry I’m confused the thieves wanting to rob us are using the extortion of branding US as not fearing whom they want us to fear. and that’s what thieves do?
Well first of all thieves rob or steal and extortionists extort. How are you being extorted ? and what’s being stolen?
Who has said they fear the “people of Russia” ?
You do seem to fear the people of the US.
Lots of people do and with good reason. Not the American people but its wretched governments.
But no one fears the gov’t of Russia or Putin? Or are for example the Chechnyians just being paranoid.
I’m no fan of Putin/Russian Oligarchy in the slightest. Yet on balance I consider the USA the more dangerous of the two countries, the US now with an extra Trump factor…
But no one fears the gov’t of Russia or Putin?
sure – not one single person on the planet fears Russia – the almost huge country with one half of an aircraft carrier. Except the bankster thieves fear Russia – their examples of public ownership of life support and comfort industries of by and for the people. The banksters fear Russia currency, not privately owned. The banksters fear the Russia China Indochina Fareast unity pacts that leave out their criminal currency and fraudulent debt and fraudulent interest rates. The useless thieving banksters fear standing in the unemployment line and in the soup kitchen line and having to pawn there $1000 pairs of shoes for ten bucks.
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/373666-episode-max-keiser-1019/
Greenwald is THE best! Thank you for the Foreign Affairs linked article – very accessible, along with the NC video made for a compelling presentation. I trust your work.
Mike Penning is the stooge. The Crimean War started in Palestine. England was afraid of the rise of Russia. His comments vis a vis Corbyn are a malicious agenda.
Your comments on the Crimean War are correct only up to a point. The cause of the war was more that France wanted to be the protector of Christians in the Ottoman Empire (And thus get better treatment for Catholics), while Russia wanted the same thing (Which would mean better treatment for the Orthodox). Jews had almost nothing to do with this.
Trump will manage the economy like he managed his businesses, which means a new boom and bust cycle, bigger than the last, and probably quicker, too. The dollar will not remain unscathed, and once its status as the global reserve currency is shaken, the cold war will turn hot.
In the meantime, US and RF will buzz each other but not cross the line unless inadvertently. This song and dance will have prepared the West to accept the hot war.
Anyway, something like that.
The last depression was not severe enough. I don’t expect war, not yet.
P.S. Greenwald is THE best, as always. Someone to be counted on.
This all seems way too irresponsible, intentionally so. World elites realize the gig is up, and are willing to escalate the threat of nuclear war in order to regain some control.
It would appear so. Whatever one may think of Corbyn’s position on Brexit, etc. how the fuck can you disparage anybody who desires to ratchet down the brinksmanship between two nuclear armed superpowers.
If he’s a Russian ‘stooge’ then I am too, and damn proud of it.
Right there with ya: https://twitter.com/PresumptuousBug/status/815831875143004160
Brava, PI! Me ten, or ten million, or whatever.
P.S. I’m with Jezza on Brexit, too — and I’m in favor of devolution, decentralization, etc. wherever it can be accomplished. In a world of irreversibly-diminishing resources, mega-nations and super states are simply unsustainable and inherently destructive — especially when in thrall to global finance-industrial capitalism.
‘I Am A Russian Stooge’.
T-shirts, buttons, etc. The merchandising opportunities are boundless!
We could make some serious coin! ;^)
If you’re willing to share the cash flow, all you need to do is some design and marketing.
Cafe Press
i fear you are correct.
the idea that people are realising they are being robbed and stepped on by the thieving selfish elites is causing them to become paranoid and jumpy.
Wait isn’t what you guys keep claiming is that the elites already have control?
And what control did these elites lose and how will they get it back by a supposed escalation of the threat of nuclear war?
Do you guys ever make claims that you can back up with facts. Are you all so terrified of the world that you need to make up conspiracies about everything that doesn’t work in the way you can understand.
And lastly and most importantly the best thing I assume about being an elite is that you are rich and powerful. Why in the hell would you want to turn the world into chaos where there is a good chance you will lose all these riches and power? Anyone ?
Hey, you WILL MAKE MORE AND MORE AND MORE WITH WAR!
When 8 people control half the world’s private wealth–> then yes, that is the definition of control!
Ok so now we are getting somewhere. Can you name these 8 people?
Gates, Ortega, Helu. Zuckerberg, Buffet, Bezos, Bloomberg, Ellison.
i did not see their faces nor read their names.
if these are the 8 then they should live in fear of being unemployed and impoverished.
and they should be happy with that.
So these are the people who control the world and want us to have a war with Russia? I get that Zuckerberg thinks that a war will lead to more posts on Facebook but I’m confused as to the reason for some of the others for wanting us to go to war. Bezo’s I guess thinks a nuclear war will cause a lot of damage to brink and mortar stores so more people will need to use Amazon? You don’t think he calculates that a war in which hundreds of millions people will die and a post nuclear landscape populated by Mad Max type folks who can’t connect to the internet will have a negative impact on his business?
your apparent stupidity is neither amusing nor fruitful.
The bankster wealther zionistas seek only domination of will.
These bankster wealther zionistas are willing to threaten war upon all the populations to have their way and merely hope that their intended victims do not call their bluff.
These wealthy types have become drunk with money and power and have gone stupid and seek support from other stupid persons.
On the other hand your eloquent posts are indeed fuitful. too funny.
Are you sure it is not you who have become stupid from sitting at home all day in front of your computer thinking how the about how the zionists killed Jesus and continue to ruin your life?
What I know is these are the eight individuals who own about half of the world’s wealth. For the rest of this discussion I am a mere observer.
I would have thought that the Rothschild family could buy out all eight of the above billionaires with their pocket money.
you would be correct.
but that audit has not been accomplished, yet.
and here i thought it was 8 people that hold as much wealth as the bottom 50% of the world’s population.
(which is not the same thing as 50% of the world’s wealth.)
Who is more “afraid”? The people who look at things, no matter how ugly, with eyes wide open, or the people who soothe themselves with ignorance and comforting lies, such as thinking the oligarchs will act rationally just because they are rich?
From where Im sitting you are the one telling comforting lies. Please point to one thing any of these 8 people have done that shows they are working together to bring about war.
Are you suggesting the decline of the elites and the rise of populism in the west are a “conspiracy theory” I came up with? For the 100th time: Analysis of trends and interests is not a “conspiracy theory”. It comes to reason that if the elites (who are still in control) see themselves in danger, they’ll try to find ways to stay in power. They can’t do it by reversing the economic conditions that lead to populist anger. They need to find other ways. Evidently, we not only see neo-McCarthyism used as a political tool, but for a while there’s been an aggressive posturing toward Russia. There’s precedent too: What happened after the New Deal is essentially the same thing.
What you haven’t proved is that any of these unnamed elites control. Or how they control it.
If we are talking about New Deal age precedents we can also point to the post war take over of eastern Europe by Russia.
No shit, Gil, these people seem to think the vastly wealthy have more power than, say, the head of the municipal library. That they have a confluence of interests that heavily direct their behavior in particular directions. What morons.
There are whole books written on this “lunacy.” Rather than park here constantly demanding evidence for what seems obvious to many, how’s about you try a book or two?
There is a VAST difference between having more power than the head of the “municipal library” and controlling the world. How about trying some critical thinking and logic some time?
Wealth and the wealthy do, in fact, very greatly control the world. This isn’t rocket science, Gil. To know this merely requires sufficient understanding of both human nature and history. Again, there are quite a few good books you could start with, but some remedial world history might first be necessary.
do you ever actually back up a claim? first of all human nature is irrelevant to backing up this particular claim with factual evidence were you ever actually a lawyer?
and if you had any understanding history you you would be pointing to historical events that prove the people on the list run the world. But you don’t and you can’t.
So if your not a hound of war… you either a coward or a ‘Kremlin Stooge’.
I think that anyone making such claims needs to sign themselves, and their children into our brave armed forces, and be prepared to go to the front line.
Put up.. or shut up.
the FP article is common knowledge to anyone above the CNN/Fox line and i’d guess it’s a view of history shared by many of the key players in the events; the problem is that they don’t care. they believe – to paraphrase chomsky – that the “world is theirs”. they do have plans to isolate and eventually control china (clinton’s planned “pivot” being one step, the constant whining about manmade islands being another) but they see russia – still healing from the attack of neoliberal crisis capitalists in the 1990s – as an easier target.
i’d worry less about nuclear confrontation and more about a ukraine-style coup/color revolution at this point but who knows. if i had to credit the DC types with anything foresight would be at the bottom of the list.
Zionists lie, Part 352,519
Any wishing to see Zionists (Craig Summers and Gil G) floundering, and even lying, should see this sub-thread. Among the marvels one may behold is Gil’s insisting an Israeli diplomat — a part of at Israel’s diplomatic entourage at Israel’s embassy in the UK — who just resigned in disgrace is, in fact, not a diplomat.
The diplomat in question, Shai Mosat, is (or until all this happened, was) on the board of directors of Young Diplomats in London. This man, was heavily involved in the campaign to smear Jeremy Corbyn and other UK politicians as “antisemites.” Or, to use Mosat’s own words, to “take out” these men and women whom Tel Aviv dislikes.
Just do observe the whole sub-thread to see choice Zionist denial and dishonesty on display, as they are confronted with two sources of ugly truth about Zionism.
i would suspect him/them to be low level mossad butts going about seeking Brits with opposing views which could be set up for murder styled “take em down” operations.
they should be expelled and black-listed.
Zionists certain have a long history of assassinating politically unacceptable statesmen and people — including a great many Jews. But it’s clear from the videotape Mosat means taking UK politicians out of office via a smear campaign, not murdering them.
the smear campaign is for sure
but if that fails of backfires, the bosses of the Young Mossadis of London may have a plan B.
Correction: The disgraced Israeli diplomat, Shai Mosat, served on the executive committee of Young Diplomats of London. Not on the board of directors.
“Any wishing to see Zionists (Craig Summers and Gil G) floundering, [sic]”
Flounder is a fish and not a verb; ‘founder’ is what you should say.
“Founder” would also have worked, and I actually considered it. However, you are thinking of “flounder” the noun, while I mean the intransitive verb.
flounder
It is just a pet peeve but founder has a documented usage while flounder has become acceptable, much like the word ain’t.
no harm, no fowl … fish.
Ain’t it a Sham that linguistic dilettantes quibble over the correctness of THE KING’s English and not the accepted and well understood vernacular .
You say Ta-May-Toes an they say Ta-Mah-Toes .
I affected a BAHSTAN (aka BOSTON ) accent and then the adult genes took over .
Flounder:
verb (used without object)
1.
to struggle with stumbling or plunging movements (usually followed by about, along, on, through, etc.):
He saw the child floundering about in the water.
From Dictionary.com
Learn more usage of the language before correcting others and by the way, I doubt this is a grammar board.
“Learn more usage of the language before correcting others and by the way, I doubt this is a grammar board.”
You must be new.
and urban slang making it to dictionary dot com does not make it correct.
There is nothing unique to flounder in regard to flailing about. All fish flop about when out of the water.
One founders when one’s argument fails because it lacks foundation.
founder
also wonder what operation “take’m down” had to do with the murder of Seth Rich. These styled operations go under a larger plan in a wider area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbkQddEDPs0
You mean the Young Diplomats in London who’s membership is made up of according to it’s web site:
” of diplomats and young professionals in London. Today it has more than 2,000 members who are kept up to date with the latest news and upcoming events through email and social networking sites.”
Being a member of this organization no more makes one a diplomat than being a member of the Polar Bear Club makes one a polar bear. As a matter of fact if you go to their web site it looks like the requirements for membership are giving them your name and email address and the name of the organization you work for.
But if anyone is interested in seeing Mona getting caught in actual lies please see this thread.
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/israelis-want-soldier-executed-wounded-palestinian-suspect-camera-go-free/?comments=1#comment-333815
Er, well:
The Jerusalem Post’s headline and sub-headline: ISRAELI EMBASSY OFFICER QUITS AFTER UK LAWMAKER ‘TAKE DOWN’ SCANDAL – Shai Masot, a political officer at the London embassy, was secretly recorded in October by Al Jazeera speaking in an undiplomatic manner about a number of British MPs.
You, Gil, are amazing and amusing. But ok, let’s say this “political officer” whom journalists and British officials all over are referring to as a “diplomat” are wrong. Could you tell us all, Gil, why an Israeli “political officer” felt he had the authority to conspire to “take out” British officials? Was the undercover reporter just incredibly lucky to encounter a rare, rouge agent of the Israeli government?
Ah, the Friends of Israel are in arms – their scum has been caught with bloody hands. Malicious interference with internals British affairs. The case can be safely extrapolated on the whole club of Friends of Israel. The same is going on in the US: AIPAC and the malicious Israel-firsters that have zero loyalty to the US.
Indeed, AIPAC gives money to some of the projects Shai Mosat was involved with. Mosat and AIPAC went to each other’s functions. The reason they cited, secretly caught on film, was a desire to make UK politicians as compliant with Israel’s wishes as are U.S. national officials.
What Al Jazeera exposed going on in the UK is also, almost certainly, occurring in the U.S. Indeed, a shadowy group – -whose founders and staff are unknown — are working to destroy the academic and professional reputations of pro-Palestinian activists in America. As I document here (scroll to gray, highlighted post if your browser doesn’t immediately take you there).
Zionists lie, and conspire to destroy and harm, as easily and often as others change their underwear. They have from the outset, in Mandate Palestine.
Which “internals in British affairs” did they interfere with and in what way? Please explain whose blood is on there hands. Can you answer these questions Anna? OR do you just make unfounded charges that were passed down to you from higher ups? Tell me Anna.
You first, Gil. I asked you:
I never made the claim that he did conspire to do any such thing. Can you provide more detail to this conspiracy.
Anyway now I answered your question Mona how about answering mine.
Did you not watch the 4-part investigative series we are discussing? What Mosat and others did very strongly appears to violate British espionage laws.
Foreign powers and/or their agents secretly plotting to “take down” elected officials is against the law. For the obvious reason that it’s subversive of democracy and the political rights of the citizens in the nation whose officials are secretly being attacked for a foreign power’s benefit.
Really and even with that violation of the law the British govt didn’t arrest him?
Can you tell us the details of this plot ?
And Anna mentioned blood on their hand please tell me whose blood.
And didn’t you just promise not to engage me yet again?
I don’t know Mona this sounds like Glenn’s claim the the CIA was involved in trying to get Hillary elected. Perhaps if you provided the information you claimed were contained in Glenn’s link that proved what the CIA was doing it would help me make the connection to the proof of the plot here. Can you help me out with this? Thanks.
Mona
All you did was throw out a little whataboutery and completely change the subject to your obsession – Zionism. You didn’t even respond to my post at all. What you discussed with GilG is between you and Gil, but it didn’t include me.
Thanks Mona.
Nope, not whataboutery. This is about moral standing, which you and all Zionists lack when it comes to objecting to terrorism. It is literally absurd for a Zionist to carry on moralizing about terrorists, or those whom they smear as supporting or otherwise saying nice things about Hamas/terrorists. Little could be more preposterous: Zionists’ acts of terror have been frequent and heinous.
Zionists have never objected to terrorism. Only to Arab terrorism, especially in response to Zionist depredations.
This is false. You introduced the topic of anti-Zionists and terror. Specifically, you sought to smear Jeremy Corbyn for his position that the UK government makes a mistake by designating Hamas as a terrorist organization (because of the legal consequences that flow from that).
Unlike many Zionists who are severely mendacious and/or duplicitous, I can’t recall your straight out lying. So I’ll assume this was a lapse of memory.
you are strong.
people who were once next to death sometimes return with a guardian angel.
guardian angels are very strong.
“………Specifically, you sought to smear Jeremy Corbyn for his position that the UK government makes a mistake by designating Hamas as a terrorist organization (because of the legal consequences that flow from that)……”
I didn’t say that at all. I agree with it, but I didn’t say it. I just sought to show exactly how radical Corbyn is when he called Hamas and Hezbollah “friends”. Again Mona – whataboutery – and you still have not responded to my original post.
Craig translated: “Oh, that’s right. *I* raised the topic of Corbyn and Hamas. Mona responded to that, but I’m going to pretend she didn’t. Yeah, I’m gonna continue with the claim that she initiated the discussion about Corbyn and smears touching on Israel. Because I’m a committed Zionist, and it’s what we do.”
The smears on Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party are to be expected from the Zionists, my only criticism of Corbyn is he did not fight back hard enough. For instance during the Labour Party Conference in Liverpool Professor Jonathan Rosenhead said this on Antisemitism .
“In response to a moral panic about Left antisemitism seemingly expanding without limit, the group Free Speech on Israel coalesced in April out of a loosely-knit band of Jewish Labour Party supporters. Some 15 of us got together at a couple of days’ notice for the inaugural gathering. We found that over our lifetimes we could muster only a handful of antisemitic experiences between us. And, crucially, although in aggregate we had hundreds of years of Labour Party membership, no single one of us had ever experienced an incident of antisemitism in the Party.
Some time in May the ex-Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks was interviewed on Radio 4 about the antisemitism ‘crisis’ by now gripping the nation. Helpfully his interviewer invited him to share some of his own personal experiences of antisemitism. His response, from memory ran rather like this: “Well….actually I have never experienced antisemitism myself. Which is odd, because most people know that the Chief Rabbi is Jewish”. https://www.opendemocracy.net/jonathan-rosenhead/jackie-walker-suspense-mystery
From the Al-Jazeera doc, it appears that he didn’t fight back because he was overwhelmed with the anti-semitism criticisms, and that’s why he even attended the LFI conference, when they were the ones ginning up the anti-Corbyn BS. I’d give Corbyn a pass.
To me, it seems like the British have finally found a leader that cares about ordinary Brits and less about appearances.
Gil does have a (twisted) point. Per Craig Murray (a former diplomat, who should know), despite his work for the Embassy and his work in facilitating meetings, briefing politicians, and generally representing Israel, Shai Mosat was not on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s Diplomatic list.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/01/britains-undesirable-immigrant-shai-masot-given-visa/
Of course, Craig Murray and others are asking why Masot was fulfilling diplomatic functions if Mosat was not on the Diplomatic List.
why twisted?
maybe you should let Mr. Murray know that Mona found that Mosat was a member of the Young Diplomats club.
After this weekend, if Russians want to nuke Europe then they do not have assured protection from us. So I would suggest to the Europeans to tone down their rhetoric and behave more responsibly, and use their army to watch over all the millions of Muslim Jihadi terrorists that they have imported instead of shadow-flexing their muscles to a vastly superior nuclear power. These Europeans have in the past ruled the whole world, but now they are victims of their own greed and it will be tough for them to recover from a war with Russia where we are spectators.
Jeremy Corbyn has a habit of speaking up prematurely. Obviously, if he says all these things during the lame duck period there will be folks who will talk him down. As a mature politician he should get his sense of timing right, but alas.
Russia is the only nuclear counter to the USA. I think maybe someone thinks this is the last dance. Is it with a dunce? Maybe so. Death is, in the end, a most fair and democratic force of nature.
“After this weekend, if Russians want to nuke Europe then they do not have assured protection from us.” Dear Hercule; what this sentences means in English, is that “us” (whomever) will not protect mother Russia from retaliation. I think you should try again. Truly yours; Just about every person who isn’t Russian!
Why are the Dems and 0Bama trying to start WW3?
NATO should have been disbanded in the 1990’s.
Sending US troops to Poland and Norway is poking the Bear.
For what purpose???
Why?
To ensure captive markets, to give arms manufacturers a market for their products, to satisfy belicose Eastern Europeans, to prevent military pressure against the Islamist “moderates” in Syria, to get tv ratings (War gets people watching!), to satisfy those who think Russia’s treatment of gays is worse than, say, Saudi Arabia’s, to satisfy those who think Russia is literally satanic and plans to attack Israel… And, last, but not least, trying to demonstrate that they still have power.
I see the incomparable Dorothy Parker was on that “fellow travelers” list. What a brilliant and witty woman she was, a female Oscar Wilde.
“Tell him I was too fucking busy–or vice versa.”
“I like to have a martini,
Two at the very most.
After three I’m under the table,
after four I’m under my host.”
“Heterosexuality is not normal, it’s just common.”
“If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to.”
“You can lead a horticulture, but you can’t make her think.”
(On Vassar coeds). “If all those sweet young things were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised.”
“Razors pain you,
Rivers are damp,
Acids stain you,
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren’t lawful,
Nooses give,
Gas smells awful.
You might as well live.”
Dorothy…real delight, along with Molly Ivins years later…
” There are two kinds of humor. One kind that makes us chuckle about our foibles and our shared humanity — like what Garrison Keillor does. The other kind holds people up to public contempt and ridicule — that’s what I do. Satire is traditionally the weapon of the powerless against the powerful. I only aim at the powerful. When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel — it’s vulgar.”
LOL! Thanks!
Dorothy Parker was superb. So much wit in one human being is quite rare.
Not surprising at all. Corbyn is certainly a good man. And I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that it is someone affiliated with the israeli embassy in London that is whispering in armed forces minister for Britain’s right-wing government Mike Penning’s ear. For a good bit of evidence towards this logical assumption, see the latest AJ documentary called The Lobby to see how the israeli lobby has been infiltrating and trying to “take down” MP’s and Corbyn. This heinous act should be quite sufficient to expel all israeli diplomats and a thorough investigation be undertaken. As for the British people shown in the documentary colluding with a foreign agent, israel, they should be arrested and tried for treason. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/lobby-episode-4-takedown-170112091750073.html
I’m not prepared to say whether Corbyn is or not a good man in the ideological sense. Maybe yes; maybe no.
But I certainly would say that he is unelectable in the current British environment and will be the ruin of the Labor Party. So it’s fair to say he cant be good man in the POLITICAL sense.
Your view of Jezza is certainly consistent with that of the UK establishment. It is not, however, consistent with the views of the rank and file members of Labour, who have twice elected him leader by overwhelming margins.
It may, indeed, be true that working for the good of, and with respect for the wishes of, the party membership will doom Labour in the context of the UK oligarchy. However, if victory is your measure of goodness in the “POLITICAL sense,” then Pinochet, Franco, the House of Saud and a long list of other vile assholes are “good.”
And just FYI, Corbyn is definitely a good man.
This less-than-strictly unassailable inference from my statement above regarding truth, ideology, and goodness in politics gives the distinct impression that you learned your Aristotelian Logic while attending Mickey Mouse University.
“…if victory is your measure of goodness in the “POLITICAL sense,” then Pinochet, Franco, the House of Saud and a long list of other vile assholes are “good.”
. . .suggests you may have learned English from a linguistic tap-dancer.
You continue to fail to impress, except that the impression that impressing (or attempting to do so) is your raison d’être continues to grow.
Shorter: I think you may well be a fucking phony.
You need to contain your agressivity. Your attempts at shock-and-awe style displays of rage and fury fall pathetically short of the mark. Those never carry well in cyberspace, and the result is that at the receiving end your growls and roars far from instilling terror, sound more like the clucking of a chicken that just layed an egg.
You may note that Mona and I have made peace. I’m not known for holding a grudge, so I’m offering you an olive branch. You may accept it if you wish, but if you dont, just break it into pieces until it’s all sharp ends and…
—–
“I think you may well be a fucking phony.”
So I may well be. So what? What difference would that make to you, or anyone else? And if I’m a phony, what is it that I’m pretending to be and am not that requires me to be a phony about?
Frankly, comments like this and the previous one suggest that you dont only roar like a chicken, you think like one.
Let’s see…BREXIT in Blighty, Trump in the USA, and Notley(socialist) in Canada’s most conservative province. Does the sand not sting your eyes when you bury your head?
The current situation of the Labor Party is such that this short verse could very well apply to it if it continues in its present course. Yes, perhaps its members espouse a wonderful set of policies that will make the world better for all, but it wont help if those policies lead to the demise of the party.
In politics, as in many other endeavors, pragmatism is often essential in order to prevail. It is possible to maintain core principles and yet make reasonable adjustments at the margins.
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way —
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But he’s just as dead as if he were wrong.
and yet make reasonable adjustments at the margins that will greatly increase the chances of success (or perhaps even survival).
Because moderation and incrementalism have been working so well, so far. ;^(
Whatever you do, whatever you have to give up, whatever principles may need to be abandoned, keep your seat at the table — at all costs. It’s the practical thing to do.
So what’s the VIABLE alternative? Sepuku aint it.
This reminds me of the 2000 election fiasco when Nader stubbornly insisted in running and garnered many thousands of votes in FL which would instead have gone to Gore.
Seppuku is what we’re committing now, en masse, slowly and surely.
Look, girls and boys! It’s the Nader Myth, again.
I would love, dearly love, to take that nonsense apart and hand it to you in ragged little pieces. If you inquire politely, I might do it in another thread. Maybe.
For now, just consider that Gore lost his home state and Clinton’s home state.
In Florida, 300,000 Democrats voted for Bush (more than 12 times as many as voted for Nader).
Also in Florida, according to exit polling, more than 190,000 self-described liberals voted for Bush, while fewer than 35,000 voted for Nader.
In point of fact, Gore lost the election by a vote of 5-4, when SCOTUS stopped the recount. A year later, a media review found:
And yet, four election cycles later, poorly-informed partisans, or partisans with poor math and logic skills, are still blaming Ralph Nader for Gore’s loss, just as partisan Democrats are, today, idiotically blaming “Russian hacking” for Clinton’s remarkable achievement in losing to Trump.
It was and is pathetic.
PS. I said, and it’s in black and white above, “It is possible to maintain your core principles and yet…”.
I DID NOT say “Whatever you do, whatever you have to give up, whatever principles may need to be abandoned, keep your seat at the table…”.
Please curb your inclination to distort what has been said in order to score cheap points with the intellectually challenged that may be reading your posts. It’s a dishonest debating tactic commonly known as “straw man fallacy”, and, trust me, it wont get you very far.
Yes, you did say that and I missed it — in the midst of all of your apologia for compromise and incrementalism. So sorry.
Believe me, I have no interest in scoring points. I’m only interested, when I’m interested at all, in saying what I think. And I think moderation in the face of the reality facing human civilization is a recipe for disaster.
Don’t bother to ask me about “viable alternatives,” because there probably are none. The chances that civilization, in anything like the form we know now will survive this century are very slim. Only a full-scale revolution has any chance at all, and that is a slight chance.
Three types of humans have brought us to the precipice we teeter on: the greediest and most power-mad of our species; those who go along with the aforementioned for reasons of convenience, self-interest or disinterest; and the stupid. The stupid can’t help themselves. The other categories are to be despised with equal vehemence.
yes, the Democrats have been beating everyone over the head with that bit of pithy insight. it’s the looking-down-the-nose part that really sells it.
Same question to you. What’s the alternative?
the alternative? to serving up the same tired and repeatedly debunked lie?
garsh, that’s a real head-scratcher.
BTW, it is worth noting that more seats shifted leftward than rightward in the last parliamentary election. The Tories wound up with fewer seats than the Coalition government had.
Further, in the recent by-elections, Labourites who have backed Corbyn have won, yet those who opposed him have lost.
Lastly, in the recent leadership election, Owen Smith got more votes for Labour leader than Theresa May got for Tory leader…and still lost massively to Corbyn.
@ Mike Sulzer, reply not functioning,
There can be no such thing as a nuclear ‘war’ with Russia only MAD and an end to western industrial civilization as we know it. There can be no conventional war between the US/Europe and Russia because any grand military movement past set borders soon triggers the MAD response.
To trigger either of these insane scenarios there would have to be a long line of madmen or women to carry it out and I don’t see Putin, the Europeans or Donald Trump as raving lunatics ready to light that fuse. In fact Trump has just started using rhetoric to pursue further reductions in Nukes with Russia along with easing tensions.
Except there have been several instances where the protocol almost lead to a launch of nukes, only prevented by some grunt insisting on rechecking a radar signature or something. Increasing troops, tensions, rhetoric, nearby flights, etc. makes it more likely something like that will truly happen.
Also more likely to loosen any existing protocols further, also making it more likely.
On the lighter side of this issue, it seems that the establishment in the UK remains worried about Corbyn.
Two failed attempts to oust him from Labour and these new attacks would not be necessary if he weren’t a threat.
Perhaps when his electability is tested in the UK, we will be pleasantly surprised?
Virtually every one of my favorite bipartisan beltway legislators has gone Russophobic. Even the tech savvy ones are conflating “hacks” with “leaks” and “Wikileaks” with “Russian” when selectively sourcing those 100% real DNC emails.
Vladimir Putin has been the only adult in the room since the Snowden disclosures. Since he arranged to destroy those Syrian Chemical weapons. Since he weathered 3 years of ongoing undeserved US sanctions constructively with good humor.
Since Barack and Hillary began screaming “I’m melting, melting…” and flailing like 435 opiate addicts kicking cold turkey Putins staff has played it cool. Way cool.
Russians are protecting the Russian Federations borders. The Americans continue threatening everybodys borders including Russia’s while running foreign and domestic political and economic psyops worldwide without pause.
Well said.
No matter whether in the end one approves or disapproves of his intentions and goals, the fact is that Putin is the most clever, astute, audacious, far-seeing, sophisticated, and successful geopolitical player that the world has seen in a VERY long time.
Perhaps Churchill may compare with him, but it’s not at all clear to me that even that cagey old dude would be a worthy match for Vladimir.
… and I hope saying this wont suffice to label me a Russian collaborator :).
At 16 I became an activist against the Vietnam War. Now I’m nearly 65. I’ve been an activist this whole period and I can tell you, nothing changes fundamentally. All that hoo-hah about the ‘upward march of progress’ is pure propaganda. Deja Vu, even for those older than me who were conscious during the 1950s red scare.
Any young person who thinks the U.S. government will EVER give up on trying to control the whole world – is either lying to themselves or, well, hoping the U.S. government conquers the whole world. There is only one solution to this and its not electing another war-mongering government.
America is exceptional — exceptionally evil.
Hopefully that’s what we just did, it was a campaign issue that many people are watching, the US has been involved in some type of conflict for 50 years and the hawks want to perpetuate their income stream at the cost of civilian and military lives (i.e. Ukraine was started by a US gov overthrow – remember the $5 billion from US tax payers pockets and additional dept shackles on the Ukrainian people from the IMF)
For all the flaws. I pick the USA to take our planet into the unknown of galactic interface.
Hell, Western hard right governments STILL can’t admit the “F” word…fascism. ALL the corporate media and their trolls are calling Donald Trump ‘alt-right’…like “collateral damage” and “enhanced interrogation techniques”.
The only solution is campaign finance reform to remove the influence of large monied interests.
Only reform of campaign finance and lobbying rules can limit the power of the military industrial complex to wage eternal war.
A breath of fresh air.
Glenn, I do not know if you recall that in a piece you wrote a couple of weeks back you called the actual atmosphere (maybe poorly worded) in MSM comparable to 2003, when the US invaded Irak. You didn’t really elaborate, but I think you should.
Cos’ this constant drum beating in nauseous.
Ringling Bros is going out of business, but rumor has it that they’ll be leasing their Great Tent for 4 years to the White House, which believes that with Trump as both Impresario and Ring Master they’ll have enough circus material to keep all three rings going full blast until 2021.
There will be a death-defying Tweet-O-Rama act nightly at 3AM, when the Donald will tweet continuosly from a high wire without a safety net.
And, if all goes well, the lease is renewable for another 4 yrs.
Unfortunately, Trump apparently sees Twitter as the proper venue for major declarations of policy and position and hes’ about to be POTUS. Even worse, much of the media is quite happy to allow Trump tweets to control their focus.
Yeah, the media is delighted that the tweets provide a steady stream of fascinating headline-grabbing material that it could not otherwise generate.
Problem is that when Donald falls off the wire the whole country winds up w/ broken bones. See the one-China policy mess , for example.
yeah
after 8 years of dumb paranoid bankrupting death embracing war fraud, followed by another 8 years of being droned by secret state surveillance and government gone wild, how bad can it be?
Ask Major Kong.
i believe that came with a loud “YEEEEEEE HAH”
the rise of the dumb&dumbers
Scoring political points at the expense of goodness, prosperity, humanity and the planet is the stuff of the dumb&dumbers who are TRUE MORONS –
There all sorts of manias. But a certain mainia having to do with lying, cheating, destroying, and condemning others for that sake of selfish interest, has not as of yet been named and set in the SCIENCE OF PSYCHOLOGICAL MENTAL DISORDERS.
Symptoms include statements like
whereby The armed forces minister for Britain’s right-wing government, Mike Penning, accused Corbyn of being a collaborator with the Kremlin.
This particular mental disorder for persons in positions of power is highly flammable and the persons with this disorder are also afflicted with dangerous attitudes and ill conceived notions of suicide in a very twisted fashion.
Truly i say to you, as God is my light and Jesus is my savior, these persons are not fit for the whole of goodness of mankind. Like Hitler, Nixon, Netanyahu, and others, they are possessed by a self-inflicted self-indulgement feverish trance without the courage of modesty, without connection to humbleness, without concern for all and incapable of knowing their own role in their fascination of fire. I dare say they need to be exorcised.
“Collaboration” may be the wrong word, but appeasement is not. And I would expect the British to remember a thing or two about appeasement.
The most dangerous thing we can possibly do is to have a lack of clarity on whether Lithuania and Estonia are part of the NATO alliance. If they are part of the NATO alliance, if Russia attacking them is formally the beginning of World War III, then as Doctor Strangelove would say, we need to tell the world! And we cannot then be afraid to have a few hundred or a few thousand or a few tens of thousands of troops in those countries as need be, though it is polite not to let them lean their rifles against the border fence.
I suppose you can abandon the Baltic countries, but if you must, then do it formally and in advance – say they aren’t paying their fair share of military expenditures, that’s as good a peccadillo as any, and formally boot them out of the alliance _before_ the Russians invade them. Hell, you should boot Turkey out of the alliance while you’re at it because they’ve never been anything but pay-for-play and nobody in the U.S. can conceive of dying in a nuclear war to keep Erdogan’s totalitarian Muslim regime safe from a passable competitor.
In any case, Russia ought to understand that attacking NATO is, well, attacking NATO. For them to try to redefine the borders and governments of NATO member states opens the entire map of Europe to redefinition, whether it is by NATO turning tail and running out of Poland and East Germany, which I doubt, or whether it is a matter of throwing the Russians out of East Prussia, what they call “Kaliningrad”, with precisely the same level of compensation for their seized property as they gave the evicted German residents half a century ago. There should be no doubt that starting World War III is, indeed, starting World War III, with little battles opening up all the way from Estonia to Ossetia. All that said — are the Russians really going to start a devastating nuclear war over some minor possessions by their least-cherished citizens in Eastern Europe, provided NATO doesn’t go all the way into Moscow? It’s that kind of question that makes the world war all too possible to imagine, because there’s too much out there that is not unthinkable. But showing hesitation about whether NATO is real sure as hell doesn’t help dispel the uncertainty.
Is that the issue here, abandoning L&E? Or did you just make that up?
Good points.
I also find it interesting that Glenn’s article makes no mention of why Estonia feels the need to have NATO troops there or be a member of NATO.
Also in spite of the fact that Glenn makes the accusation that Corbyn was accused of being a collaborator, the actual quote he uses to back this up makes no such accusation.
“These comments suggest that the Labour leader would rather collaborate with Russian aggression than mutually support Britain’s Nato allies.”
Glenn once again depends on his readership lack of reading ability and critical thinking in order to have them believe a claim he can’t actually back up. A pretty good bet by Glenn in any case.
Yanno Gil, if you are going to claim that OTHERS lack reading comprehension skills, you have to demonstrate that you yourself read the article. From above:
Your constant, absurd manufacture of nits to pick is driven by your affronted Zionist sensibilities. Nothing more and nothing less.
I will not facilitate your misdirection any further on this dumb claim. Readers can decide for themselves now that I’ve reproduced more of the relevant text.
Read my comment again my dear. I included that quote in my post.
In the English language saying someone would “rather” do something is not the same as saying they did do something.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING is that the term “Russian aggression” is completely Orwellian.
There is no objective reason to be scared of Putin (for Eastern Europe or others). During his many years in power he has never made a pro-actively aggressive move; only retaliatory actions:
1. The Georgia war in 2008 was a response to a USA’s puppet government in Georgia attacking South Ossetia (Russia is UN-mandated guarantor of peace there and they stopped the aggressor in just five days). The attack was carried out just days after neocon maniac C.Rice has visited Georgia (the hypothesis was that the war would be used by Republicans to fearmonger about Russia that would had to react, and claim that Obama lacks experience and posture to go against the evil Putin).
2. the Crimea case was a response to USA backing neo-Nazi-driven “regime change” coup in Ukraine, and to those neo-Nazis videodocumenting their threats against Crimeans; the neo-Nazis were later sent to the Eastern Ukraine to subjugate/kill those who did not accept the coup, who were still aligned with the legal government; Putin had to help people with the military equipment; the neo-Nazis are officially employed by the new Ukrainian regime: you can google Azov and Aidar regiments’ Waffen SS insignia. Crimea was illegally torn from Russia back in 1954; ever since the USSR has dissolved, Crimeans never wanted to have anything to do with Ukraine and voted to reunite with Russia with over two thousands of international observers and media presented. Even the Western pollster admit that it was an act of direct democracy. And it was legal as per Kosovo precedent.
3. Russia had to enter Syria because of yet another proxy “regime change” war by the USA that is carried out by arming terrorists AKA “rebels” (who are very moderate: CIA-vetted and armed group Al-Zinki has beheaded a child and tortured another — both cases are on camera).
Crimea was illegally torn from Russia? No it was actually made part of the Ukraine by a decree issued by Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union. Please tell me how it was illegal?
Give me the answer to this and then I explain by the rest of what you have written is misleading.
How quickly we forget the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the discussions among the US, British, French and Soviets concerning the reunification of Germany. It was informally agreed at the time that the Warsaw Pact would be dismantled, and in return NATO would not expand into eastern Europe. So, what have WE done to fuel Russian paranoia, other than totally abrogate that agreement? And for what reason? Only recently has Russia been financially capable of rebuilding their decrepit military, something they have arguably done largely in response to the actions of the West, led by every US president since Ronald Reagan.
What a rational west would do is negotiate a demilitarized zone extending east from the Oder-Niesse line to some distance inside the Russian border. On the western side of the Russian border, no foreign troops would be permitted, and within the Russian zone, Russian troops would only be allowed to enter to aid in responses to natural disasters. Such an agreement would be easy to monitor and would lead to a significant diminution of tensions.
Another approach would be to abolish NATO and provide instead for an EU military force. If post-Brexit EU countries’ military spending were to be maintained anywhere near their current levels, the existence of such a force could not be legitimately interpreted as threatening to the Russians, because its capabilities would be barely sufficient to repel a Russian attack and grossly insufficient to attack Russia.
In any event, the key to preventing a future war in Europe is to remove the USA from the equation.
Oh, so well said. Unfortunately, the odds of it coming to pass are zero, nil, and null.
If you view the Chomsky interview, then you would know that the “agreement” that NATO not expand eastward was not a “written” agreement, but a “handshake” agreement.
As good, honest dealmakers, the US representatives must have had their fingers crossed behind their backs and big smiles on their faces when they did this, and it is then “the Russain’s” fault if they want to take the leap of faith that the US really meant what it said and shook on. SUCKER!
These types of handshakes will only make it harder for Trump to close those reeeeeaaaaalllly yuuuuuuge deals in future.
The whole world – media – politicians – bankers – realtors -etc…. have sacrificed any long-built trust, truth, honor, credibility for the fast grab at wealth-influence-power. It will take a long time, if ever, to regain.
Glen, I hope I never see the day you too choose to abandon your principles for a chance at the chance for wealth-influence-power!
Only in the fevered nightmares of the most clueless Russophobes does the Russian Federation have any interest in attacking L&E.
BTW, the Warsaw Pact was dissolved. Why not NATO?
“Only in the fevered nightmares of the most clueless Russophobes does the Russian Federation have any interest in attacking L&E.”
Apparently the people of L&E disagree Doug. Or do they fall into the category of “most clueless Russophobes”?
To the extent that the people, not just their NATO puppet “leaders,” are worried about an invasion, yes.
Absolutely.
Ahh yes NATO puppet leaders. Of course you have evidence for that.
Actually if you knew anything about recent Estonia history you would know that the evidence had pointed to Russia as the puppet-masters recently.
http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/31077/
Good reference, Gil — to a five-year-old piece full of innuendo, provided by a Soros-associated NGO, in a (now) monthly English-language outlet published by a a banktser. . .
Just for good measure, here’s the current lead story in the Baltic Times:
You are so full of it, Gil. You should really go somewhere else to try to peddle your B.S. By now, it should be obvious to you that it ain’t selling well, here.
Wait, so now Soros funding is evidence of false reporting, Doug?
How weak is that. Well I guess its not quite as weak as saying a 5 year old article somehow makes it untruthful.
Im not peddling anything Doug Im exposing charlatans. The fact is I backed up my claim, you had a hissy fit and told me no one likes me. Boo hoo hoo.
And when you lost the point you ran away as usual. OR can you back up your claim that the leaders of the Baltic states are puppets?
you lost your mind and made a fraudulent challenge as usual.
i would bet that the remnants of the irgun know who murdered Seth Rich.
Hellary the wallstreet war whore lost really really big.
Were the mossadis going to have a British PM murdered and blame it on Russian influence for another FALSE FLAG?
Yes barb it’s obvious from your evidence in your post that I am the one who has lost his mind. too funny.
All of a sudden, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, have become Poland.
Let’s hope that’s not really the case. The Poles have a visceral hatred for Russia.
You realize that Russia invaded those countries during WWII and they remained under Soviet control for 50 years, and that during this time there were mass arrests and deportations? And if you did know about that what does your comment mean?
Russia invaded those countries? Yes, but only because they just happened to be at war with Germany, and Germany was occupying those countries. You make it sound like Russia started WW2.
You got it wrong Jeff the Soviet invasion of the Baltic states began in 1940. Germany took over in 1941 and was replaced by the USSR after the war.
I didn’t make it sound like anything other than what it was, except that I left out the 5 year period that Germany occupied the Baltic in between the USSR occupation.
Your argument on appeasement fails for the simple fact that there is absolutely no proof that the Russians want to invade Lithuania. The accusation that Putin wants to invade the Baltic’s is pure political fiction. Defenders of the idea that Putin has imperial ambitions point to Crimea and the Ukraine. But all that has nothing to done with any imperial ambition but the violent coup. And in the case of Donbass the Russians have given aid, but certainly have not invaded. But then again, the US is also giving aid to the government in Kiev which is still standing.
Because Russia has not invaded. If it had, Chocoshenko, Yats and the rest of the coup plotters and puppets would have fled to the Virginia suburbs and there would be nothing anyone could do about the new reality, unless, of course, “anyone” wanted to trigger thermonuclear war.
I see a strong case for defending the Baltic nations, but that doesn’t mean I agree with the provocateurs who insist on keeping every last inch of Ukraine out of Russian hands. The reason for that is that Stalin arbitrarily redrew the borders of Ukraine without holding any fair referendum on the issue. So the people of that southeastern region *were* entitled to a fair referendum, to see if they want to be in Ukraine or not. Ideally this should be internationally supervised, and the rushed process actually used is rather deficient – I never saw why the U.S. didn’t just gracefully allow it.
On the other hand, the U.S. *did* make a nuclear treaty with Russia that took nukes out of Ukraine in exchange for them agreeing to its territorial integrity. However, I think that the right of the people of that southeastern region to self-determination trumps any superpower agreements.
I also think there is a strong case for Russian retention of South Ossetia.
At some point I wish we had some rational negotiators who would give the Russians what is theirs, but also get other things resolved in the West’s favor like “Transnistria”. And of course NATO has to stand up for its right to maneuver throughout all NATO countries without hesitating over it being “provocative” to put defenses in any of them.
Just curious Erelis were you one of the many on this site that was convinced that Hillary wanted a war with Russia? If so can you provide the proof that she wanted this?
hellary wanted a war with russia
everyone knows that except the moronistas
but she lost being the loser she was (and is)
she lost because of that, because of her whorish alliance to wallstreet thieves, and because of her predatory desire to please her pimps who wanted to subjugate the will of the citizens of America to a criminal outfit called the TPP.
but you already know that.
update on the failure of moronistas who seek to subjugate the will of others
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/israeli-diplomat-caught-on-camera-plotting-to-take-down-british-mps-the-transcript-in-full-a7515621.html
So you don’t have the proof then? Why am I not surprised. I do congratulate you on the “moronistas” insult. I guess when you have nothing else to do all day it give you a lot of time to think up such erudite insults.
You can start here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/hillary-clinton-syria-no-fly-zones-russia-us-war
Why Clinton’s plans for no-fly zones in Syria could provoke US-Russia conflict
Clinton’s military policies on Syria would have lead to direct conflict with Russia. There is no question if they might, could, maybe happen. Imposing a no-fly zone in Syria would have caused a direct military confrontation–there is no ifs, ands, or buts that.
Sorry but that is not proof Hillary wanted a war with Russia.
I’m not sure why some times proof is required and other times speculation is enough.
FWIW – This was reported on the BBC recently:
“Because there’s no doubt that Russia is looking at Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania as potentially the same as what they did in Ukraine and Crimea”
Colonel Rupert Wieloch
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/725966/colonel-claims-russia-looking-at-estonia-crimea
The Russians invaded Crimea as a defensive act after the Yanukovitch coup, simply because it has been the home of its strategically important Black Sea Fleet for 300 yrs which obviously could not be maintained within a country that looked likely to become a member of Nato.
The inference that the Baltic states maybe at risk is absurd, as Putin is way too smart to believe that he could get away with an unprovoked invasion of an independent state which would be inmensly costly and yield no benefit to Russia whatsoever.
Virtually every one of my favorite bipartisan beltway legislators has gone Russophobic. Even the tech savvy ones are conflating “hacks” with “leaks” and “Wikileaks” with “Russian” when selectively sourcing those 100% real DNC emails.
Vladimir Putin has been the only adult in the room since the Snowden disclosures. Since he arranged to destroy those Syrian Chemical weapons. Since he weathered 3 years of ongoing undeserved US sanctions constructively with good humor.
Since Barack and Hillary began screaming “I’m melting, melting…” and flailing like 435 opiate addicts kicking cold turkey Putins staff has played it cool. Way cool.
Russians are protecting the Russian Federations borders. The Americans continue threatening everybodys borders including Russia’s while running foreign and domestic political and economic psyops worldwide without pause.
No matter whether in the end one approves or disapproves of his intentions and goals, the fact is that Putin is the most clever, astute, audacious, far-seeing, sophisticated, and successful geopolitical player that the world has seen in a VERY long time.
Perhaps Churchill may compare with him, but it’s not at all clear to me that even that cagey dude would be a worthy match for Vladimir.
… and I hope saying this wont suffice to label me a Russian collaborator :).
Well, I have to give him credit for actually using and applying authentic First Earth Battalion tactics. I mean, he literally took most of the land he ever got there using … “tourists”, without so much as a fistfight. I think our own army looked at FEB as a laughingstock, relegated to Men Who Stare At Goats. I’m glad somebody took them seriously … well, maybe not. Military innovation is like that.
Troop buildup on border= Hitler!
It’s a shame the Russians are just capitalists now and not good old Commies which would make pigeon-holing Corbyn much easier. His statement puts him firmly in the Donald Trump school of Russian relations which is a strange position for an old Pinko.
Those who try to roll out the Doomsday Clock and nudge it towards 0- Hour because of some saber rattling and economic pressures against Russia have to downplay the fact that we and Russia now have a fraction of our previous Nuke arsenal and we have never gone to war with Russia directly. Proxy wars have provided a political pressure relief while MAD has guaranteed neither side could go too far.
I think you are saying we do not have enough nukes to go to war. That is ridiculous. On the other hand, if not having so many nukes keeps us out of war, so much the better.
Right you are, Mike! Even if we and the Russians retired half our existing nuclear weapons stocks we would still each have the capacity to annihilate each other many times over.
Consider this: The US Navy has 24 Trident-class SSBNs, of which at least 4 are on patrol at any given moment. Each carries 24 Trident missles, each of which has 8 – 12 MIRVs with W76- or W88 thermonunclear warheads. The W76 is a small weapon with a yield of 100 ktons – just twice that of the weapon that leveled Hiroshima and Nagasaki, while the W88 has a yield of 475 ktons, quite adequate to level a city the size of New York or Moscow. Think of it: just one element of the US triad, just sixth of it deployed, carrying over 1000 thermonuclear warheads, ready to launch at a moment’s notice.
Russia has 12 cities with a population of 1 million or more, and 200 with a population between 100,000 and 1 million. So one Trident submarine carries enough firepower to deliver to every Russian city with 100,000 or more inhabitants no less than five thermonuclear warheads, each at least twice as powerful as the weapons used against Japan in WW2.
This is the madness our leaders are engaged in!
About your “… neither side could go too far” claim, does that also apply to increased discretionary spending to upgrade our worldwide nuclear arsenals as well? … I bet it doesn’t. As the globe’s theoretical moral leader (ok ok), couldn’t we invest that money much better? Of course we could. Big duh … Forget MAD, which’ll never come. We’ve got MAB “mutually assured boondoggles” to deal with, front and center. This renewed media boner for the Cold War is nothing but theater, and paying for a single new nuke is nothing but corporate welfare.
MAD could surely occur in any of a number of ways. Don’t count your chickens before they’re vaporized.
Ugh, good gravy … your “don’t count your chickens before they hatch” Judgment Day fearmongering doesn’t really add-to or challenge my assertion that we should publicly deescalate our nuclear weapons program. “Could surely occur” also isn’t the same as likely or probably, and additionally isn’t convincing enough to have me practicing “jump under my desk drills” everyday, and kissing a framed Trump photo every night before bed so he’ll protect me like a sword-wielding angel from that devil Putin. MAD, the theory, doesn’t affect my behavior, much like knowing that a monster asteroid could probably crater earth at any moment doesn’t keep me up at night either. I don’t think that makes me or anyone else who thinks this way naive, it simply makes us well-informed, and immune to all this well-trod Cold War hysteria shit. “Could surely occur” is simply another way of saying “we should deescalate”, chicken man.
For any of you who may disagree with Mr. Greenwald’s position, I urge you to read a couple (or even one) of the compilation of essays by Gore Vidal, a TRUE historian of our country (U.S.A., often cited as “America”, the continent). I would say that a good start would be “Perpetual War For Perpetual Peace” and move to “Dreaming War, Blood For Oil”. Those will substantiate the above written essay and much more.
Thank you, Glenn.
I don’t think Gore Vidal would have wanted us to let Putin reannex Ukraine, but I’m open to being proven wrong.
Glenn’s Twitter TL is hilarious right now. Democrats are hurling abuse at and about Bob Woodward for his calling the “dossier” on Trump/Russia a “garbage document,” at the same time they are lavishing praise on David Frum — the man who put the phrase “Axis of Evil” in the mouth of George W. Bush.
That old saw: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Most pols, pundits, and the tribalists who nurture them operate on self-serving partisanship, not principles. It was ever thus.
ACHTUNG!!
NATO defense budget in total: $900 billion. Take away the US contribution, and it is $250 billion from European allies.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/15/news/nato-spending-countries/
Russian total defense budget: $45.15 billion.
http://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2016/11/02/russian-military-spending-cut-significantly_644155
America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy
U.S. Dropped 23,144 Bombs on Muslim-Majority Countries in 2015
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/us-dropped-23144-bombs-muslim-majority-countries-2015
30,000 Bombs Over Libya
After some 8,000 bombing raids, with estimates of 4 bombs used per attack NATO has already dropped over 30,000 bombs on Libya. That’s almost 200 bombs per day for 6 months, some tens of thousands of tons of high explosives.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/02/30000-bombs-over-libya/
Afghans live in peril among unexploded Nato bombs that litter countryside
Ordnance left by parting international troops kills or injures about 40 people a month – the vast majority children
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/29/afghans-lives-in-peril-unexploded-bombs
Hundreds of thousands of Nato land troops on ‘high alert’ to meet Russian aggression The force, which is believed to number up to 300,000 military personnel, could be mobilised within a few months
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hundreds-thousands-nato-land-troops-9213772
“When the attack on Russia commences, the world will hold its breath and make no comment.”
Adolph Hitler, February 3, 1941,
Add in the money spent on nuclear weapons which is accounted to the DoE and the intelligence agencies of all NATO countries, the Western alliance spends each and every year, repeat each and every year, over $1 TRILLION dollars on defense.
Eurasia must be defeated.
With all due respect, Glenn: If the Polish, Estonians, non-Russian Ukrainians and others decide that they have seen enough of Russian rule, then that’s not “the West’s relentless, aggressive march eastward,” but their bloody right. If the Chinese threaten to invade Taiwan then that is first and foremost about the Taiwanese people and their right to decide for themselves. Your geo-political interpration lacks even the hint of a reference to the people whose lives and freedom are at stake. Do you think that’s okay?
By the way: The problem with Trump’s “participation” in cross-straight relations is not that he states the obvious, but that he offers to sell support of Taiwan for whatever he hopes to get in a “trade deal” from China. What the fuck?
There is an open hunting season on honest journalists by the EU/US security forces:
http://yournewswire.com/german-newspaper-editor-exposed-cia-dead/
http://mopaw.net/07/12/2016/assassination-of-2-reporters-investigating-pizzagate-in-finland-connections-made-to-the-clintons/
Thank you so much. The footnote citations are extremely informative.
Ayup, the world we live in is in a very dangerous state at the moment.
The old, comfortable, predictable, stable (if greatly flawed) US-centric order — which in many ways prevailed even during the Cold War despite the existence of a powerful competitor, the Soviet Union — is being replaced by something new… and nobody knows what that something will be.
Meanwhile, the old order will not simply give way without a fight. There’s an entrenched establishment within the Western Alliance which firmly believes that for reasons of ‘exceptionalism’ it is entitled to rule the World, just as it has done for the past few hundred years.
Unfortunately, they are mistaken. They fail to see, or choose to ignore, that the willy-nilly advancemente of their interests through the use of force is no longer viable in this emerging new world order and they persist because that is the only way that they have ever known.
The probability of a serious clash between great powers is skyrocketing, and will increase unless the (almost) unmovable object that is the West decides to budge a bit and leave space for others who, naturally and rightfully, have their own interests to pursue.
There are plenty of cooler heads that see the folly of that approach — Corbyn perhaps one of them — but it’s not clear that they will, in the near future, be in a position to turn their point of view into active policy.
Then there’s Trump, a weird melange of half-baked, conflicting and inconsistent ideas regarding how to deal w/ the external world. Some even hopeful, provided he doesnt cave under pressure. In the end, where he’ll go is unclear.
So, the old cliche applies: fasten your seat belts.
This is terrifying. Obama just dropped Marines into Norway, of all places, something not seen EVER during the Cold War. The effort to cow Trump on Russia is obviously meant to make it harder for him to de-escalate. This is madness. I have been a “liberal” my whole life, but I never thought I’d see the American Left sound exactly like Roy Cohn or Joseph McCarthy. I find myself actuallyu supporting Trump, because his foreign policy has more in common with George McGovern, while “liberals” are resembling Barry Goldwater.
Great article. It is good to someone from the left has called out the neoliberal insanity of starting a new cold war. Europe needs to stop returning President Obama’s calls this week. He is just going to ask for new sanctions against Russia or the permission to march even more US soldiers around Poland and Norway.
When you say,
“someone from the left”
I have to wonder who else is you think belongs in this “left.”
I am aware of a few writers who appear at “Counterpunch,” but
there is such disdain for real leftists in the faking U$A and its allied
corporate pretenses that I have as much suspicion and doubt as
anything else when I hear the term used by most people.
So, who are some of your “left?”
Thanks, Glenn, once again for the voice of reason. Although I am not currently a fan of Chomsky for various reasons, I used to respect him highly and have read most of his books. This “new McCarthyism” on the part of the Democratic and Labour parties is horrifying.
Each to their own, but I must say I’m a great fan of Chomsky. I’ve never discovered any inaccuracy in anything he’s said, and I’ve never heard him give bad advice.
I’m always keen to challenge my assumptions, though, and would love to hear why you’re no longer a fan.
I remember last year this article got around -> ‘Noam Chomsky’s 8-Point Rationale for Voting for the Lesser Evil Presidential Candidate’ … Critics of “lesser evil voting” should consider that their footing on the high ground may not be as secure as they often take for granted. By John Halle, Noam Chomsky
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/noam-chomskys-8-point-rationale-voting-lesser-evil-presidential-candidate
Maybe this was what bugged Carolyn? If you didn’t catch it last year, then give it a skim. I’m just taking a guess because I remember some negative headlines associated with its publication, blurbs along the lines of “Chomsky upsets Progressives” etc. and other clickbatery tailor made for the high brow.
That’s disappointing. Not so much the overall argument, though I disagree with it. But that point 3 only discusses Trump’s faults. Not a single reason someone would view Clinton as a worse evil on various subjects (not just foreign policy). The initial caveat in the intro is not enough to justify only reviewing one of the candidate’s terrible likely policies.
I’m a long-time Chomsky fan, but his championship of LOTE voting, in this most recent election, as well as multiple previous ones, is very bad advice, indeed, IMHO.
Mr. Greenwald
Corbyn occupies an important political position in the British government subject to criticism like all other politicians. He is not a victim. It’s the history of Corbyn that is behind the “slur”. Calling Corbyn a collaborator with Russian may not be far from the truth. Corbyn has a long history of anti-western affiliations like the (alt-left) Stop the War Coalition. He was National Chair for the organization and still maintains close ties to the group. The main goal of STW is “stop the west”. The Stop the War coalition could not even mount a protest against Russia’s brutal bombing campaign in Aleppo! Corbyn also hosted a paid position on Press TV serving as a propaganda tool for Iran. He is a member of the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign referring to Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends” (Wikipedia):
“……….At a meeting hosted by Stop the War Coalition in 2009, Corbyn said he invited “friends” from Hamas and Hezbollah to an event in parliament, referred to Hamas as “an organization dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people,” and said that the British government’s labelling of Hamas as a terrorist organisation is “a big, big historical mistake”………”
Corbyn – a strong critic of NATO – has suggested that he would pull Britain out of NATO:
“………..Corbyn would like to pull the United Kingdom out of NATO,[218] but has acknowledged that there is not an appetite for it among the public and instead intends to push for NATO to “restrict its role”.[219] In April 2014, Corbyn wrote an article for the Morning Star attributing the crisis in Ukraine to NATO. He said the “root of the crisis” lay in “the US drive to expand eastwards” and described Russia’s actions as “not unprovoked”.[220] He has said it “probably was” a mistake to allow former Warsaw Pact countries to join NATO……….”
For someone who is so strongly antiwar, “not unprovoked” sounds like military actions by Russia in Ukraine were justified – a war in which ten thousand people have been killed. When is an antiwar activist prowar? When it opposes (supposed) western imperialism. It is Russia that illegally annexed Crimea and Russia that is supporting a war by secessionists in eastern Ukraine. It was a Russian-made Buk missile fired by either the Russian military or poorly trained rebels that brought down MH17 killing 300 people.
The ousting of Yanukovych was a democratic rebellion. It’s classic RT/Sputnik propaganda that the Nazis are now running the Ukraine government. Additionally, the states from the former Soviet block willingly joined NATO for the very reasons currently on display in Ukraine – aggressive Russian military actions to maintain their sphere of influence. It’s the likes of Jeremy Corbyn who are more than willing to extend that sphere of influence to Russia in the name of world peace – effectively throwing Ukrainians under the bus. If Corbyn is not a Russian collaborator, he is certainly their useful idiot (as is Trump).
Finally, I would love you to link to an article you wrote criticizing Congressman Ellison of Minnesota when he effectively compared George W. Bush to Hitler. That is at least an order of magnitude worse than being called a Russian-bot. Of course, that isn’t even a remote possibility – even when you write an article about the (supposed) smear campaign against Ellison (“The smear campaign against Keith Ellison is repugnant but reveals much about Washington” https://interc.pt/2g7CEaV by @ggreenwald). Politics is a brutal game – but it reveals much about you, Mr. Greenwald.
The above smears of Corbyn are drafted by one who was and is wholly on board with the failed, bullshit “antisemtism” smear campaign I write of here. I strongly encourage watching the linked, fascinating documentary, chronicling what very strongly appears to be actual espionage by Israelis, conducted in the service of that smear campaign.
Both you’re links failed me Mona….I’m sad.
A solid review of Zionists’ crimes: http://www.unz.com/article/terrorism-how-the-israeli-state-was-won/
Far better than a mere book review, that’s the text of the author’s — Thomas Suarez — recent speech to the British House of Lords. In that speech he recounts some of the most shocking and horrifying material he documents in his work.
You are off topic Mona.
Thanks.
It’s a sub-thread, Craig, and it involves the related issue of another smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn.
Thanks.
As I showed above, Mona, Corbyn has earned his smear campaign.
People earn smear campaigns, Craig?
and you are off your rocker, craig.
Thanks.
the bugs have crafted a new con for their yinon plan
http://presstv.ir/Detail/2017/01/16/506417/Syria-Israel-Assad
Does it provide evidence of your claim that the zionists killed Jesus barb?
What “failed bullshit “antisemitism” smear campaign” ? The Labour party has suspended 3 members for making antisemitic comments. Which were indeed antisemitic by any standard.
As for the documentary you reference I suggest you read this well thought out, intelligent criticism.
http://hurryupharry.org/2017/01/14/al-jazeera-%E2%80%98lobby%E2%80%99-voyeurism-for-antisemites/
Hurryupharry is an arch-Zionist blog that systematically bans all dissent on Zionism while allowing deeply racist comments (of several varieties), as I have documented here:
http://developing-your-web-presence.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=hurryupharry
Which doesn’t stop these toerags from finding antisemitism in an empty cookie jar…
The smear campaign against Corbyn, documented:
http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=corbyn
Go watch the documentary, Gil. That whining at the Zionist “Hurry Up Harry” site is hilarious, tho, and I do encourage that people read it to get a sense of how explosive the series is. What was done to Labour Party member, Jean Fitzpatrick, is documented in the investigative series — she did not say the antisemitic things that horrid Joan Ryan woman, and a witness say that shew did — it’s all on film.
Most amusingly, one of the lying “witnesses” states he feels Zionists need “safe spaces,” and that anything that makes them “uncomfortable” is by definition “antisemitic.” To really grasp how much this campaign is based on lies and precious sensitivities one needs to see the actual encounter between Fitzpatrick and Zionist Joan Ryan, and then the text of the latter’s false, formal complaint against the former.
Listen if you have something that counters the criticism on the Harry’s Place site (it’s not called Hurry Up Harry) bring it.
This documentary you are so enthralled with brings to mind what Breibart tried to do with it’s “undercover” video on Acorn.
Did Joan Ryan say that an article made the claim that the Ashkenazi Jews wouldn’t work when the article said nothing of the kind? Did she say that the links in Glenn’s last article provided evidence that the CIA “sought to defeat Donald Trump” when they did no such thing? Is that the kind of lying you are accusing her of? Because I know of some antizionists that lie in the same way.
Gil’s string of non sequiturs, irrelevancies and misdirection should be taken by observers to reflect the potency of the investigative series. Zionists such as Gil are most unhappy with and about it.
And I sincerely do want people to read your link. This is…wonderful:
Ryan told brazen lies. And those documenting it are “Jew-baiting” the non-Jewish Ryan. That’s sheerly delightful.
How is Ryan’s lie less brazen then the ones you told? Hell I didn’t even bring up, that when you got caught, after posting multiple times, in an attempt to prove racism, that the Ashkenazi Jews were causing misery to the Shepardic Jews that the article you gave as a source had it the other way around, you termed it a mistake. Now you are saying someone who changed “job at a college” to “job at a bank” is a brazen liar? What a hypocrite you are.
As you are well aware, I won’t facilitate your misdirection. This will continue to be my constant reply every time you try to drag me there (may be necessary to scroll to the highlighted comment depending on browser).
Yes Mona I am well aware that every time I ask you to back up a false claim you ultimately respond that you won’t engage me because you can’t back up the claim.
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/israelis-want-soldier-executed-wounded-palestinian-suspect-camera-go-free/?comments=1#comment-333815
(may be necessary to scroll to the highlighted comment depending on browser).
Let’s say, arguendo, that I lied. Please defend your implication that my doing so in a comment at a web site would be comparable — in either degree or kind — to what Zionist Joan Ryan tried to do to pro-Palestinian activist, Jean Fitzpatrick, when the former filed a false, formal complaint with the Labour Party.
I am pointing out that there are liars on both sides. You constantly promote a theme of zioinists being liars yet you have lied yourself in service to your cause as I have proved.
I also find it interesting that someone who I assumes considers them self a feminist would describe a women as a shrew. You left out the “r” in your typo but I can’t imagine what other word you were going for there.
Jesus on a cracker, now you hallucinate that I called a woman a “shrew.” Because I made a typo in a pronoun for Jean Fitzpatrick, i.e., “shew.” A woman whom I admire. How blatantly desperate can you show yourself to be?
I’ve lied about nothing. Your claim there is as absurd as that I called anyone a shrew, or that Shai Mosat is not a diplomat. But then, what else can you do? Zionists in London have been caught lying about extremely serious matters, plotting to lie, and committing what very much appears to be espionage to destroy politicians they do not like.
Just wait until I begin on the grotesque terror campaign revered Zionists prosecuted in Mandate Palestine. You and Craig are going to be extremely hard-pressed to rant that Jeremy Corbyn’s rhetorical citation of “friends” means jackshit. For, all Zionists are deep friends of extreme terrorists who did and do monstrous things.
Misdirection is truly all you have. But it is not going to work, because I and others won’t cooperate with you. Indeed, your antics are only going to discredit Zionism further.
“Just wait until I begin on the grotesque terror campaign ”
Oh please Mona take pity on me don’t do that. anything but that.
Mona I seriously you have anything new present that you already haven’t cut and pasted on TI and 100 times.
And I didn’t hallucinate that you called a woman a “shrew” , I explained that that’s was the word I thought your typo was meant to be. Now that you explained it I won’t persist in making that claim. You on the other hand have been caught in lies concerning the article on 1880’s Palestine and your claim about Glenn’s links containing evidence that they did not.
The fact is you provided a link to a show. I provided criticism of that show. Rather than discuss in good faith the merits of both you immediately went into discredit by name calling mode which is pretty much all you do. Now make some veiled threats about having me banned and call me some more names.
I love how you threaten me with how you are going to begin a campaign of posting stuff about Zionists in mandate Palestine and accuse me of misdirecting all in the same post.
Never, not once, have I lied to you or another Zionist about anything. No one reasonable, and familiar with me and my record here, is going to believe you.
In due time, you shall see that I have a great deal that is, indeed, new to report about the crimes and evil of Zionism. You will not be able to divert me with bullshit claims about the 19th century article, or anything else. No thread is again going to be consumed with your red herrings, at least not with my cooperation.
The Al Jazeera investigative series is directly relevant here, as it pertains to Corbyn, the UK’s Labour Party, and Zionist smear campaigns that failed. So, now the ploy is “he’s a Kremlin stooge.” When the material in Suarez’s book is relevant — and you or Craig could make it so here — you’ll see me posting a good deal more from and about it.
I don’t care who believe’s me Mona. You and I both know I have caught you in lies on multiple occasions. And I have documented it here:
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/israelis-want-soldier-executed-wounded-palestinian-suspect-camera-go-free/?comments=1#comment-333815
I never divert you. You always bring up Israel before I do on these threads that are not about Israel. You always tell others not to engage me and then your the one that keeps engaging me. Not only do you lie but you can’t even keep your promise that you won’t engage.
The 19th century article was your citation and you brought it up multiple times before I ever commented on it. The only thing I did was read it and point out how you misrepresented what was stated in the article. You got so flustered that you flat out made up a lie about the article saying the Ashkenazi Jews did not wanting to work.
As for your threats to post something new “in due time” , really? What are you a James Bond villain? Jeez.
just because Adolf swept a floor doesnt mean he was humble.
just because a man says he loves his wife doesn’t mean he is honest.
DECEMBER 1999, pages 28-34, 36 Special Report The Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967, And the 32-Year Cover-up That Has Followed By James …
http://www.wrmea.org/1999-december/the-israeli-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-june-8-1967-and-the-32-year-cover-up-that-has-followed.html
and now the MURDER OF SETH RICH is being resurrected.
listen barb I will be happy to discuss your claims about what happened to the Liberty but first I need you to give me the evidence that the Zionists killed Jesus like you claimed. Because if you made the claim that a group of people that didn’t exist at the time of Jesus killed him, it can mean only one of two things. 1) you have information about time travel that the rest of us don’t know about. or 2) you use Zionists and Jews interchangeably in which case you are just a run of the mill anti-Semite who hates Jews and isn’t worth the dirt under my finger nail. So please tell me about the time machine and them we can get to the Liberty.
12: Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him,
13: And led him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.
28: Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
29: Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?
30: They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.
31: Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
38: Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
39: But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
40: Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.
1: Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
5: Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
6: When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7: The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
How many palestinians have you or your friends or comrades murdered this year and stolen their land?
Sorry I didn’t see any reference to Zionists in that post. Or are you saying that Jews and Zionists are the same thing. Why not man up and admit that that is what you mean.
What you say is false, I have never stated I will not engage you, or that others should not. Only that that I will not further engage you on this specific inanity regarding that 19th century article. I have cautioned others to also not allow you to drag them into these diversions. (You are, ironically, lying about my lying, which I have not done. Typical Zionist behavior.) Even this level of further discussion I will keep confined to this low, stale sub-thread.
Obviously.
Zionists lie, or are otherwise duplicitous. Chronically. You included. CAMERA plots in secret to propagandize web sites. Joan Ryan viciously lied about Jean Fitzpatrick, as did a fellow Zionist “corroborating witness.” Alan Dershowitz lies, sacrificing his professional reputation in service to his putrid ideology of Zionism. Almost all of you Zionists lie, certainly in my extensive experience. Zionism is built on falsehoods, without which it cannot survive.
Mona you have a very short memory and have been caught in yet another falsehood:
-Mona- ? barabbas
January 11 2017, 11:55 a.m.
Please don’t feed Gil. The above article is important, and about a very dangerous phenomenon. It’s not about Israel — that’s simply what Gil cares about and is why he’s here.
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/11/the-deep-state-goes-to-war-with-president-elect-using-unverified-claims-as-dems-cheer/#comment-334874
follow the thread back and you will see this was in reply to this comment I made :
Gil G
January 11 2017, 11:44 a.m.
What exactly is the “Deep State”? If the CIA is responsible for nefarious activities it’s fine to call them out. The people running the CIA are known entities. If you are implying that there are other mysterious forces in control of the CIA then state who they are or at least make the claim outright. Using boogieman terms like Deep State is weak and is more appropriate to Alex Jones and Joe McCarthy.
and no body mentioned Israel in the thread except you and your buddy barb. and we certainly were not discussing the 19th century article.
Uh-huh. I’m as chagrined and horrified as that non sequitur would predictably make me. Hey Gil, did you know that Hamas has something to do with Israel? At least that’s the rumor.
How is my posting comments you made telling someone not to respond to me in response to your post claiming:
“I have never stated I will not engage you, or that others should not.”
a non sequitur? You seem to be using that word a lot lately Mona do you actually know what it means?
anyone on the planet other than zionists or their slaves makes them uncomfortable. Watch FRINGE, the zionists and observers would flock together.
It’s impossible to understand the smear campaign against Corbyn w/o undestanding the background of the power struggle between Thatcherite/Blairite/right factions in ‘New Labour’ and Corbynism.
But smearing opponents with the AS word has lost a lot of traction and didn’t work well in this instance. That potion will lose further potency in time…
A happy eventuality that will be greatly accelerated by this investigative series.
Gert, so you believe it will lose potency in spite of Labour party higher ups making claims like Israel was behind the Sandy Hook murders and Rothschilds controlled Britain.
Do you think the fact that Labour has seen fit to suspended fifty of it’s members for antisemitic and racist comments has added any traction?
Quite a few of these suspensions are highly suspect. Here’s Tony Greenstein on his own suspension:
http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/tony-greenstein-suspended-from-labour.html
I’m always amused at the concern trolling of Zionists re. anti-Zionist “antisemitism”, yet just how indifferent they often are to other forms of racism.
Higher up you linked to Harry’s Place, a blog that systematically bans any dissent on Zionism, while allowing the vilest forms of racism in their comment threads.
I documented some of these goings on here:
http://developing-your-web-presence.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/harrys-place-racism-watch-part-1.html
and here:
https://developing-your-web-presence.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/harrys-place-racism-watch-part-2.html
Enjoy!
You are off topic Mona.
Thanks.
Oh FFS, Craig. An anti-neoliberal, often described as ‘hard left’ is a friend of Russia’s oligarchy in your rotten mind??? That’s almost as dumb as calling Greenwald a Trumpkin.
As regards Press TV, you do realise it hosts fanatical Zionists frequently, don’t you?
Just for clarity: Press TV is an official/semi-official organ of the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Which doesn’t change anything to the fact that it airs a wide variety of opinions, including those of well-known Zionists.
And no, I’m no fan of Press TV or RT.
I was just offering a fact for the purpose (as I said) of providing clarity.
FYI, I read RT and Press TV regularly and I am rather a fan of RT. Its propagandistic tendencies are no more pronounced than those of the Western MSM and it has a more entertaining tone.
Really? Please give me the name of some fanatical Zionists who have frequently appeared on press TV.
David Millett, Geoffrey Alderman and Kenneth Katzman to name but three. Another one actually posted an article somewhere thanking Press TV for the opportunity to speak so freely, in favour of Israel.
There are others. I’ll dig’m up if I can.
I think you must mean Richard Millett not David Millett . There is a big difference between hosting a show and being interviewed on a show. Fox News has fanatical anti-Zionists on frequently, none of them have their own show. When someone does have their own show on Press TV they are an employee of the Iranian gov’t. Ironically the major “incriminating ” piece of evidence that the documentary Mona keeps on about is that a member of the LIF once worked for the Israeli embassy. This is typical of the type of double standards engaged in by antizionists.
Yes, Richard “Mr Hamas” Millett. My bad.
LOL. You wish. Israeli diplomat caught on camera plotting to ‘take down’ British MPs – the transcript in full
The man resigned in disgrace (not so much disgrace back in Israel, of course). And he’s not the only one as a result of that investigation.
Figures you would quote a headline that is contradicted in the text of the story.
“the comments were made by a junior embassy employee who is not an Israeli diplomat”.
Oh geez, Gil, how entertaining, given your constant carping about my “lie.” Ahem:
No diplomat, he!
In any event, that footage is most certainly the most salient and incriminating evidence in the documentary. Why did Israel have Mr. Masot contriving to “take out” British politicians?
no Diplomat. how does any of what you pointed out change that. You certainly must realize that there is indeed a difference between working for the embassy and being an official diplomat?
That’s almost as dumb as calling Greenwald a Trumpkin.
Or as, ahem *intelligent* as thinking that western critics of war should waste energy trying to affect Russia’s actions as opposed to focusing on the sins of their own governments and allies….“Look! Over there!! The Turduckistanians are violating waterfowl again!1!1!!!”
The Stop the War coalition could not even mount a protest against Russia’s brutal bombing campaign in Aleppo! — craig “Master Analyst” summers
Poor craig. His glasses are so out of whack that he thinks everyone but him has lost proper vision. It is one, if not the most, common fecal pellet that falls in these piles he persistently drops all over Greenwald’s articles.
“………“Look! Over there!! The Turduckistanians are violating waterfowl again!1!1!!!”……”
Look! Over there! 500,000-1,000,000 Tutsis were butchered……
Sometimes it’s not a bad idea to look beyond the west – at least if you are truly interested in justice.
“…….Poor craig. His glasses are so out of whack that he thinks everyone but him has lost proper vision. It is one, if not the most, common fecal pellet that falls in these piles he persistently drops all over Greenwald’s articles……”
You can do better Pedinska.
As is generally known, I usually ignore Craig, but it so happens I’ve just encountered two new, outstanding works that debunk — and expose as rancid — his most dearly held political beliefs: 1. The Al Jazeera undercover investigation of Israeli and British Zionist operations to lie about and destroy uncooperative politicians and activists, and 2. A heavily footnoted, scholarly book documenting — with primary sources — both the obscene levels of terrorism perpetrated by, and ardent support for Nazis among, pre- and post-WWII Zionists.
When it serves the discussion, I’ll reply to him (and other Zionists) drawing on that material. But not too heavily until this thread is older so as not to detract from the main focus of Glenn’s piece.
Do you have a link or title for it?
The Lobby
Ta, Doug.
Titled: The Lobby
“…….That’s almost as dumb as calling Greenwald a Trumpkin…….”
In the minds of the alt-left, HRC was such a bad choice for President because of her fealty to Israel and hawkishness that Trump clearly was given “backdoor” support by Greenwald, Assange and others mostly on some baseless hope. Of course, Trump could follow policies like detente with Russia etc. which could lessen the war rhetoric. Again, that is the hope.
Mr. Trump represents the Audacity of Hope.
Trump did yank that Ford plant right out from under the Mexican government. The audacity of hope might come to those who own twitter stock!
I assume that the extent of your knowledge comes from Agent Orange’s tweets, instead of real news sites.
There were many reasons why she was a piss-poor candidate and that’s why she LOST.
Israel didn’t feature very high in this election.
“……..Israel didn’t feature very high in this election……..”
I agree Gert, I was just making a point about the indirect support of Trump for those reasons (by the alt-left). That’s all. She was a very piss poor candidate, indeed. However, in such a close election, Russian hacking and Assange specifically releasing documents to undermine her may have been the difference.
Thanks.
“However, in such a close election, Russian hacking and Assange specifically releasing documents to undermine her may have been the difference.”
For that to have made “the” difference, it would have to have pulled more votes from her than any other single issue reason or factor. More than the danger of a no-fly zone. More than her support of Wall Street. More than her frackin’ round the world. More than “super-predators”.
Unless the leaks were the main reason she lost votes, it’s not “the” difference. Unless differences are also on a temporal matrix. In which sure, it was the worst thing very late in the campaign. But if she’d not been such a shit candidate for so many other reasons prior, she would’ve easily won.
“The difference” in my mind is her campaign strategy, if you can even call such an incompetent, hubris-filled debacle a strategy. I think she lost more important votes with that than she lost from any other single issue or factor. Even more than her gender.
I think it entirely plausible that the emails sufficiently turned off Sanders primary supporters that it depressed their turn-out for Hillary in the general. But that is no one’s fault other than the individuals sending and receiving the emails. Assange and Wikileaks performed a great public service. It was well past time to have hard evidence of how corrupt the DNC is.
One benefit of the few benefits to Trump’s wining is how hard it punished Clinton Democrats, who have been long overdue for it. If this doesn’t snap them out of their insistence on neoliberal bullshit, they’ll kill the party and we may well have 8 years of Trump (or other Republican).
HippoDave
“……..For that to have made “the” difference, it would have to have pulled more votes from her than any other single issue reason or factor. More than the danger of a no-fly zone. More than her support of Wall Street. More than her frackin’ round the world. More than “super-predators”…….”
No one is arguing that Hillary was a great candidate. She was an “entitled” candidate. The DNC was shown to be a corrupt organization in the tank for HRC. Regardless of who ran against her in the primaries, she was crowned the Democratic nominee. However, given the large amount of electoral votes in the upper Midwest, and the very small percentage of popular votes separating HRC and Trump, the timed release of the emails by the Assange might have made the difference in the election. Again, the electoral college determines the President.
Hillary did win the popular vote so even as flawed of a candidate as she was, more Americans still considered her the best choice. Time will tell.
You are competing with that ‘Wiltdoof’ fellow for verbose nonsense around here. Always selling the neoliberal line with a bunch of high hat BS… and if you think Glenn is such a stooge, why bother? Nice reiteration of talking points, though, quite ‘scholarly’…(chuckle)….
“…….Nice reiteration of talking points, though, quite ‘scholarly’…(chuckle)….”
Nice rebuttal (chuckle).
Not true. Yanukovych was the duly elected leader of the Ukrainian state whether you like him or not. Duly elected. As an aside, it produced an interesting propaganda word–aspirations. Obama said the coup represented the aspirations of the Ukrainian people–used a lot now.
But what is interesting about Ukraine and the violent coupe is that that the US still has the possibility, remotely now, of becoming the Ukraine. Partisan democrats wanted to stop the inauguration of Trump, who whether you like him or not, was duly elected. One Harvard prof. offered free advice if electors went with Clinton. I have seen democratic party activists insist that Trump should be arrested and prevented from becoming president.
So what happened in the Ukraine is that after the violent coup, people in the Donbass protested their guy being removed. The regime in Kiev shot them up, and instant civil war.
Same will happen the United States if Trump is not allowed to be sworn in. Trump protesters take to the streets, and you can bet things turn violent almost immediately. Instant civil war.
Erelis
You are the only one that answered what I posted – so you get a lot of credit just for that!
“…….But what is interesting about Ukraine and the violent coupe is that that the US still has the possibility, remotely now, of becoming the Ukraine…….”
Comparing Trump and Yanukovych is completely wrong. Ukraine has a long history with Russia/Soviet domination. During and after WWII, Ukrainian separatists fought the German and the Russian armies. There has been a separatist element in Ukrainian society until the present.
Yanukovych is an ethnic Russian who maintained close economic ties with Russia. In 2013, Yanukovych signed an agreement with Putin while rejecting the EU offer. This is what set off the demonstrations. That had nothing to do with the US. This was a rebellion against Soviet/Russian domination. Violence associated with the protests inevitably led to the ousting of Yanukovych who fled to Russia (which explains part of the problem). The US worked behind the scenes to set up a new government which is why this is called a US-backed coup.
Russia invaded Crimea and held an illegal referendum. This was followed by the illegal annexation of Crimea. Eastern Ukraine secessionists were emboldened to occupy government buildings in the Donbass region of Ukraine. This was supported by Russian military equipment, personnel and arms. Putin carries on a low grade insurrection to destabilize the new Ukrainian government. With Trump as President, Putin hopes to reestablish the Russian sphere of influence over Ukraine.
The annexation and the Russian-supported war in Eastern Ukraine are illegal under international law.
Thanks.
the israeli paranoids have now decided that there is a group of persons in syria who are begging them to help dispose of bashar al-assad. And to make it more beneficial, the same pretentious group has also decided that it will help israelis clear the land of Palestinians using a terrorist style genocide that the israelis can disavow and scapegoat.
clever monsters.
You out did Mr. Greenwald: you provided a better example than he was able to.
Politics as usual, Mike – for everyone!
Craig, you don’t seem to have digested any of what Glenn wrote in this article, or indeed anything outside of the desperate right-wing media attempts to pin any dirt on Corbyn. The attacks you recycle here have all been amply refuted outside that echo-chamber — some of them in this very article.
Whatever you call Corbyn, “useful idiot” is nonsense. He has been vindicated by unfolding history far more often than most British politicians — especially his more vociferous critics. Over the decades, he has proven exceptionally shrewd and clear-sighted.
I would never argue he is not shrewd or intelligent. How you characterize Corbyn probably depends on your political point of view. I just provided an alternate one.
Thanks.
I just recently re-watched Dr. Strangelove. It’s frightening how much it resembles contemporary politics.
‘gentleman, there’s no fighting in the war room!!!’
“I just recently re-watched Dr. Strangelove. It’s frightening how much it resembles contemporary politics.”
Have you watched Fail-Safe ? It is the non-comic version of Dr. Strangelove.
It was scheduled to be released before Strangelove but the film was so realistic it was determined it would scare the crap out of the nation so Strangelove was released first to soften the impact.
Fail-Safe is an outstanding film with great performances by Henry Fonda and Walter Matthau.
Let’s play the exciting new game, “Name that Subtext.”
Corbyn = Trump
British Tory = American Democrat
Nato = Nazi Germany
Russia = Switzerland
Crimea = Poland
Estonia= Poland
Poland = Poland
This subject of one military entity confronting another military entity is always hyperbolic … MUST be hyperbolic. It’s called “politics.”
Or “propaganda” depending upon your favorite subtext.
Eric Blair (George Orwell) “The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”
Hillary Clinton: “We came, we saw, he died.”
Donald Trump: “I love war.”
Vladmir Putin: “It’s alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States.”
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 — March 17, 2017: [The resolution formed the legal basis for military intervention in the Libyan Civil War, demanding “an immediate ceasefire” and authorizing the international community to establish a no-fly zone and to use all means necessary short of foreign occupation to protect civilians.}
Mikhail Gorbachev: “Gentlemen, comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about
Glasnost and Perestroika and democracy in the coming years. They are
primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant internal
changes in the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes.
Our purpose is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep.
We want to accomplish three things:
One, we want the Americans to withdraw conventional forces from Europe.
Two, we want them to withdraw nuclear forces from Europe.
Three, we want the Americans to stop proceeding with Strategic Defense Initiative.”
Rex Tillerson: ” I have a very close relationship with [Putin.] I don’t agree with everything he’s doing. I don’t agree with everything a lot of leaders are doing. But he understands that I am a businessman. And I have invested a lot of money, our company has invested a lot of money, in Russia, very successfully.”
China Daily editorial: “If Trump is determined to use this gambit in taking office, a period of fierce, damaging interactions will be unavoidable, as Beijing will have no choice but to take off the gloves,”
General Jack D. Ripper: “Mandrake, have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?”
Leon T. Hadar: “Like the Red Menace of the Cold War era, the Green Peril–green being the color of Islam–is described as a cancer spreading around the globe, undermining the legitimacy of Western values and threatening the national security of the United States.” [Foreign Affairs, Spring 1993]
Executive Order 13660: “I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, find that the actions and policies of persons — including persons who have asserted governmental authority in the Crimean region without the authorization of the Government of Ukraine — that undermine democratic processes and institutions in Ukraine; threaten its peace, security, stability, sovereignty, and territorial integrity; and contribute to the misappropriation of its assets, constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat. I hereby order: …”
Prashant Ruia: “We felt all in all, we were getting attractive valuations and we decided to sell.”
Milton Wiltmellow: The problem with ignorance is ignorance. The problem with knowledge is ignorance. Propaganda is an edifice built with the bricks of one and the mortar of the other.
it!!!!!*****
Well, a lot of this is probably stuff that has been said before, but it’s still sometimes needs to be said and you are just such a nice guy and good egg, Glenn, it’s always nice to get some counter-spin from jah.
Max Blumenthal correctly notes on Twitter, while linking to this article, that the “antisemitism” smear of Corbyn failed, so now they’re turning to the “Kremnlin stooge” ploy. (The machinations of the antisemtism smear merchants now stand utterly exposed and, ironically, actual espionage may have occurred on the part of the smear artists.)
Arth–I never would have voted for the T-rump, no matter what. But I agree with your 2nd paragraph: what we are doing now is EXACTLY what we would have done under Hill. She is the consummate neoliberal war monger, with a streak of neoconservatism that brooks no opposition. Plus she has the might of the Clinton machine behind her which is why this attack on Russian took off with such overwhelming insistence in the media. In a way, I see T-rump as a tool sent by the Angels of our better nature to stuff the Clinton’s policies into the hole in history they deserve. But T-rump is such a greedy bastard, he will step on the toes of the other cabals that infect our country and THEY will take him down. In the meantime, it’s Bernie all the way. That country mouse will build a coalition ready to take the controls when T-rump runs the ship of state aground. Join us.
Bernie Sanders could have fought it out on the convention floor . He caved and should that he is basically, a pragmatic politician , just like Hillary ( i.e SHOW ME THE MONEY ! ) .
Jessejean do me a personal favor . Write the Judas Goat , aka Bernie Sanders , that Mudbone wants his $575 back !!
In the above post
should that s/b showed that
BTW: Why is Deborah Wassermann Schultz an Honorary Chairperson of the Democratic Party’s Committee ? Politics ?
When the f–kin aholes in DC have the balls to declare war then the mthrf–krs can talk about collaborating with the enemy .
THE ENEMY OF HUMANITY for the last 70 years has been the government of America and its adoration to the GREAT GOD MONEY !!
Does anyone even buy this whole cold was accusation crap anyway? I think the populace would agree with Corbyn.
Nasty woman
Hillary ” The Truth” Clinton. Hmmmm.
Nope, sorry. Too much cognitive dissonance.
The Russians are trying to maintain a buffer along their border on their western and southwestern edges of dependent client states. They see this as minimal protection from the west. The US and the NATO members miscalculated by impinging on what the Russian feel that is their most basic strategic necessity.
On the other hand the US is militarily backing it’s economic model of dominating the world to give it a the power to dominate world political order. This is to allows the US to use it’s economic power to control it’s client states to protect it’s strategic interests. The Russian economy is to weak to compete with the US on the world stage and that their influence is going to only be effective closer to home.
One interesting facet of the world competition for influence and political dominance is the world Natural Gas market. Sales and distribution of the vast production of Russian natural gas and it’s sales to Europe are used as a political weapon as much as a necessary financial tool to stabilize the Russian economy. The US is now becoming a big exporter of natural gas to Europe due to the introduction in Fracking technology. There are plans in the US to increase the east coast port facilities to facilitate the sales of natural gas to Europe. This of course will enrich the powerful elites in this country and reduce the leverage the Russians have in Europe. This may effect how legislation to control fracking is or isn’t implemented in the US. It not only enriched the wealthy but it serves a US political strategic goal. This then widens the number of influential people who support a less regulated natural gas extraction business from those who are directing profiting from it to those who see it as a political tool to reduce Russian influence.
Any nuclear exchange is a far greater threat to anyone involved in such an exchange anything short of complete military defeat and the collapse of the government. It is a deterrent of last resort for any country. It is the ultimate protection from the threats larger power. The ruling elites of both countries have no moral hindrance to the slaughter anyone who is not a Russian or an American in pursuit of their goals. But a nuclear exchange is a huge loss for each side so both have strong motivation to prevent it.
I think it is a mistake to harbor the idea that some world leader or the elites are irrational or so blinded by fanatic ideology and that they aren’t working for their county’s self interests. In almost every country the ruling class may see that their personal interests in parallel with their county’s interest or will work very hard to make them that way.
Americans need to never forget especially now, is the words of politicians ( you could throw in business leaders or the just about anyone making a public statement) are either meaningless or camouflage that serves to obscure their actions. Actions are the gold standard for understanding a persons, the ruling class or a countries motivations. An recent example is why do republicans hate the ACA so very much when it is a Republican plan? What was the first thing the Republicans did to roll the ACA back? They cut the taxes on the wealthy that help pay for the subsidies. That is real reason for the hatred everything else was BS to obscure the actual reason.
Much of what you say is true and important. However, the US currently exports essentially no natural gas to Europe. That is a dream and fantasy of the industry and of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic who would like to reduce European dependence on Russian NG.
See EIA statistics for confirmation and see the following for the reality behind the fracking cornucopia myth:
Shale Bubble
The amount of LNG sold by the US into Europe is small. But could jump to 100 BCM by 2020. Asian countries pay more now but the east coast has 4 LNG terminals and the Gulf coast has 6 and Europe is closer without the cost of the extra distance and the cost of traveling through the Panama Canal. Russian exports are about 25 BCM through 3-4 pipelines which makes delivery cheap compared to ship delivery. IN the case of friction or conflict the higher price of US LNG may be worth the extra cost for the sake of security.
A threat doesn’t have to be reliable to force a reaction. The CIA, the intelligence community knew there was no missile or warhead gap between the US and and USSR but the US public was convinced that there was and committed to paying for a huge build up of missile deliverable nuclear warheads in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s.
You wrote:
That, as I pointed out, is simply not true. Bobbing and weaving and dodging, rather than simply acknowledging your error or misstatement is just silly.
And I really think you should read Shale Bubble
Nasty woman
Hillary, is that you Hillary? Omagod you guys, it’s Hillary!
‘Hillary, is that you Hillary?’
Yes it’s me!
How in the world did you find out?
And you know I thought – it’s finally time to stay with the truth!
“How in the world did you find out?”
Umm, Nastywoman, I think your name gave it away.
‘Umm, Nastywoman, I think your name gave it away.’
Unbelievable!
You guys are sooo funny and let’s leave y’all now to this masterpiece of comedy!
Would you care for a “piece of cake?”
‘Would you care for a “piece of cake?”
No – I never liked ‘cake’.
oh god no
Based on both style and content, I think it’s possible.
like the reference to living in italy. i think we have at least enough for a dossier.
No, nastywoman is nubwaxer.
The MAIN reason I voted for Trump this time is, as I noted in a comment at this site months ago, him being the only one capable of stopping Hillary. Now, Trump is likely to exceed my initial expectations as he appears ready to take steps toward reducing tensions between us and Russia and he is calling NATO and the EU for close to what they really are.
And, why NOT Hillary? Well… try to imagine the next 4 years with Hillary and her reckless posse in control of tens of thousands of nukes. The odds of a nuclear exchange with Russia would be orders of magnitude higher compared to what we are going to have with Trump as prez and, Trump’s lewd words notwithstanding, I’d rather see the human species stay on the current course rather than seeing the few survivors forced back into a new Dark Ages period where transgender equality and clean fuels would matter very, very little.
Yeah, but he said ‘pussy’.
You are correct about Hillary, but you are delusional about Trump.
Trump is as phony and predatory as Clinton.
His cabinet is shaping up to be a more blatantly arrogant
example of what a liar he is (and it would be a dream come true
for Hillary). That is why the democrats are so pissed off. They
want their Obama-tized corruptions to continue to be under
their nominal control, only with the patina of vaginal tenderness as
the disguise du jour to manipulate their human resources into
more fascist delights while Trump is going to do the same by
just being the dick he is.
the patina of vaginal tenderness
Can I steal that? It’s absolutely perfect.
Sure.
Ownership of almost anything or everything is a delusion.
We are usually the ones who are owned by what we think we own.
Thank you Mr. Greenwald. I greatly appreciate your clarity and relentless integrity.
What the portrayal of Putin represents is
what the democrats and republicans (and their allies)
BOTH want to be.
When the faking U$A and their allies make anyone a target
it is because those targets are an expression of what the
democrats and republicans think they deserve to be.
They are jealous of any vile attributes and arrogance
which they project upon their enemy du jour.
The same is true of their supposed opposition to each other.
The democrats are republican corporatists who lie
and the republicans want to be able to lie as much as the democrat
corporatists.
Fascism is running rampant and Neo-Hitlerian personalities
have been foolishly endorsed by approximately 98% of the voters
in the faking U$A in the recent elections.
The toxic militarizing corruption keeps spreading while the
support system keeps rotting
and the blinders are becoming tightened in the name of
exceptionalism.
‘What the portrayal of Putin represents is what the democrats and republicans (and their allies) BOTH want to be.’
Who cares about some silly ‘what the democrats and republicans (and their allies) BOTH want to be.’?
‘What the portrayal of Putin represents is what a KGB Boss represents’
And that’s another fact – so lets stick with it?
I, Greenwald and many here care. Inane narratives put forward for venal and absurd reasons must be rejected in favor of facts and reality. Especially when the crazy narratives escalate tensions between nuclear powers.
“absurd reasons must be rejected in favor of facts and reality.”
FACTS : Every single country that joined NATO after the Cold War has been led by democratically elected governments that joined the alliance on their own will.
FACTS: Russia has a history of military aggressions against those countries (Poland, Czech Republic, Russian troops left the Baltic States in the 90s! )
Facts: After the Cold War there has been a massive reduction of US troops level in Europe. Bush II brought two heavy Army divisions from Germany to the US.
FACTS : Russian troops invaded a sovereign nation called Ukraine and annexed its territory.
FACTS : Those NATO troops that are currently being deployed were not in those countries before Russia invasion of the Ukraine.
These are facts and reality that any rational individual would understand. But you can design your own facts to satisfy your views.
It is good that you can see that what the faking U$A and its allies
really want is to be controlling the whole planet
like another “KGB Boss.”
Certainly G. W. Bush and B. Obama have been exceptional in their
KGB-like scheming for global corporate domination.
Trump and Hillary and their supporters have histories of the same
arrogance and ability to ignore their own criminality
in the love of money and power and predatory scheming.
One question remains,
Who will they blame next????
Meanwhile an actual Russian collaborator is being sworn in as President of the United States on January 20th.
The only credible evidence about Trump and Russia is deep financial ties to Russian lenders and businesspeople.
‘The only credible evidence about Trump and Russia is deep financial ties to Russian lenders and businesspeople.’
Is there any better reason in the US to be a Russian collaborator?
Collaborating in business interests is as American as apple pie. See IBM vis-a-vis the rise of Nazi Germany. In general it isn’t illegal except in times of open, hot war, as when Prescott Bush did business with Nazi Germany after we went to war with it.
Great riposte. Kudos for Glenn for highlighting the anti-Russian madness in the UK around the attacks on Jeremy Corbyn who is sane in a sea of crazies there.
Thanks. If we are now going to target all Westerners with business associations and interests in Russia as “collaborators,” that net is going to catch a lot of Democrats and other liberals in allied countries.
‘when Prescott Bush did business with Nazi Germany after we went to war with it’
– then he was called a ‘Nazi collaborator’ – Right?
Not at the time. But he effectively was one after war was formally declared. IBM directly facilitated the Holocaust, before war was declared. Trump’s Russian business interests, by contrast, are standard and no different than those held by many others in the West.
Darling ,, he was a extremely wealthy businessman .
And that , in my opinion , is far worse than a Nazi !!!
Yes, of course, and we swore in an Iranian collaborator as Vice President in 2001 and folks still fortunate enough to have any kind of 401(k) or pension plan likely have money invested in companies who are still collaborating thanks to loopholes Congress put into regulations about such dealings.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doing-business-with-the-enemy-22-01-2004/
Give me a break. Have you heard of fake news? You should check it out. Heck, Glenn wrote an article a couple of weeks ago for folks like you. Go read it.
A common counter argument in this area is that the more recent NATO members wanted to join.
While this may be true of those nation’s rulers, it doesn’t necessarily follow that this was the wish of the people living there.
The Croatian president himself stated that if NATO membership was put to a referendum then they would not have joined.
Furthermore it disregards the fact that NATO and their key members actively encouraged these nations to join.
The exact same template used against Muslims is now being used against Russians.
The democratic party’s embrace and protection of Muslims was never based on love, and compassion for the other, instead it was only a cynical amoral attack on republicans.
The Russia “implosion” has revealed the true face of so many.
I’ve been called a Russian shill and a stupid American for the same comments. Such is the polarisation of these debates.
I’ve also tried referencing Mearsheimer and was called an anti semite for supporting the views of a “holocaust denier”.
It doesn’t matter who you are, so long as you stop short of calling the enemy de jour “the new Hitler” you will be smeared or ignored.
I agree with the sentiment of the article – I despise Putin and Russian expansionism, but more belligerance is not the solution. I would just like to point out that the foreign affair article in question is not new as stated, it’s from 2014. That, however, does not diminish its relevance.
Russian expansionism, hardly; Nato expansionism in spades!!
“At the very least, one should be free to debate these policies without being smeared as a traitor. ”
Yes, as a theoretic principle, absolutely!
As the Greeks thought out and debated great works of philosophy and science, we all know what the Romans did.
The trouble is that there is Money and Power at stake and those who make Money from selling guns would make more Money by operating on the theory that, “it is far more profitable to just kill’em all, and let God sort out the commies”.
Usa_naziland as usual is coercing the stance anyone aware of how despicable & menacing its troop-movements (its controls Nato by way of 75% funding) must be in league with the russian-devil! Or some other opposing side of the so called freedom loving americans actions. It’s interventionist policy in the eastern regions of europe shows us just how much usa_naziland is too be trusted. Seek info on ukrainian & turkish coup d’état, one been a way of stopping Russia having access too the mediterranean sea. The other been a standard CIA operation to placate responsibility into the hands of ‘actors’ who will see america as a viable future partner for help.
The movement of hundreds of thousands; possibly millions of people into europe from africa & the middle-east resulting from the meddling of those same vile scumbags with their praising death-culture ways. We watch on as the inept U.N. is walked over by these bullying nations. Regan gave the assurance that nato would not go closer to Russia’s boarders. Instead with each new overlord of evil, we see NGO enabling meddling terrorist groups emerge & foster dissent & then so called revolutions take hold. The only nation that needs sanctions applying too it is usa & the total removal of its 1,000+ military bases spread around the world like a virus. As it prints its worthless funny money & bribes foreign people to cause strife on its behalf. You keep wondering why you are the most hated nation yet do not see how like North-Korea you are living inside a closed loop system. Praising soldiers & flag singing at every event whilst the elite-scum pretend your nations actions are for the betterment of humanity. You even have the audacity to want too weaponize space against international laws; fubar comes to mind.
Well, here’s one American who totally agrees with you. If I weren’t born here I certainly wouldn’t be here. This country is almost as evil as Nazi Germany, and if it causes a nuclear war, it will be much worse.
Do not understand why so many cannot appreciate the Russian point of view here. If China and Russia formed a new Warsaw Pact, and invited Canada and Mexico to join, would that clarify the matter? How about stationing troops and having military exercises on our borders??
Agreed, however the Western Economic Model is based on ever expanding growth and this can only occur by never-ending expansion. Not unlike the Pax Romana, the real problems come when you allow the expansion to run out of steam and your enemies realize your weaknesses.
I would speculate that what we are seeing is bluff and theater to keep the creaking western economic model from regression.
‘however the Western Economic Model is based on ever expanding growth’
However the Eastern Economic Model might be based on exactly the same?
ummm……….Yes, that is a bit of a problem indeed.
Sting…………..”I hope the Russians love their children too!”
The Eastern Economic Model is as rapacious to the (extensive) extent it has turned toward the Western one.
A betting pool could be started, I suppose, on where the unearthed remains of Senator Joe McCarthy will be displayed in a glass coffin…and another pool on the shape and colour of the coffin.
“Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.[…] That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.” Hermann Göring, April 46, Nuremberg Diary
How hilarious and absurd:
‘the west’s relentless, aggressive march eastward up to Russian borders’
As – there is this fact – that lately there has been only one relentless, aggressive march westwards from the Russian border’
And anybody who can’t at least recognize that sad fact – might have to live with being accused ‘a “Collaborator” of F…face von Clownstick –
which might be much worst than being called a Russian “Collaborator”.
did NATO ever stop posturing and arming at the Russian border?
and if Corbyn can be called a collaborator for pushing against the escalation at the border, what do you call the participants on either side?
‘did NATO ever stop posturing and arming at the Russian border?’
No – but what does that have to do with the fact – that lately there has been only one relentless, aggressive march westwards from the Russian border’.
Or should we invent a F…face von Clownstick quote – where we blame ‘the posturing of women’ for his grabbing?
“… lately there has been only one relentless, aggressive march westwards from the Russian border’.”
well you got me there. only one party seems to be marching westward.
“As – there is this fact – that lately…”? That’s not even grammatically coherent. Seriously though, where did you go to school? You ought to sue.
Anyway it’s difficult to understand what you mean given that you’re not really making any sense but I *think* you’re denying that the enlargement of Nato has taken place, is that correct?
Ehrm… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
Seriously though, where did you go to school?
Trump University.
And seriously – you are OT!
The argument from ridicule is a logical fallacy. Hurling stupid insults does not constitute rebuttal of anyone, either above or below the line.
it’s not a fact. russia is acting like the us and china have acted, in what they regard as their sphere of influence. the us is using this as a pretext to build up tensions with russia, on their borders. if you support, in principle, this policy, then you should support russia placing nukes in cuba during the cuban missle crisis. after all, the aggressive us southern expansion was threatening its neighbors.
‘it’s not a fact’
If somebody doesn’t except the fact that there has been one relentless, aggressive march westwards from the Russian border lately – somebody either never has heard the word Ukraine or has the same problem accepting facts as a F…face von Clownstick.
They did indeed take Crimea and they did indeed back Donbass separatists but that was two years ago.
If this march was relentless they would not have stopped there. There is a vast border along North/East Ukraine ripe for crossing yet they have not done so.
Given that US officials have called the previous actions an “invasion”, and the only response was sanctions, fear of Western retaliation doesn’t make sense as a reason for them stopping at Debaltseve. The logical conclusion is that they do not intend to conquer Ukraine.
‘If this march was relentless they would not have stopped there.’
Is it F…face von Clownstick logic?
Like:
I grabbed her but stopped there?
Most ironically, you have been promiscuously evincing Trumpian logic throughout this thread.
I’m not sure which to consider more depressing: liberal Democratic partisans rediscovering their hatred for the military-industrial complex once the asshole in charge of its worldwide death factory has an R next to his name again, or liberal Democratic partisans continuing to praise the military-industrial complex because they see an opening to tar their opponents as insufficiently enthusiastic toward its most senseless excesses. I mean, sure it would an obscene and noxious for Democrats’ anti-Trump offensive to concentrate around outflanking him from the right on jingoistic military saber-rattling, but at least sycophantic alt-centrists would be abandoning the pretense that they represent any kind of “leftist” alternative.
Besides which, can we all take a second to appreciate the wannabe-edgelord impotence of referring to Trump as “Fuckface von Clownstick” (as if Jon Stewart-style liberal theatrics would be any more effective against Trump than they were against Bush) without even having the guts to spell out the word “fuck”? This is your “Resistance” in a nutshell, people. We’re all doomed.
The US needs to invest trillions in upgrading its nuclear arsenal. This presents a tremendous opportunity for firms to seize some of the most lucrative procurement contracts of all time. Ratcheting up tensions with the Taliban is insufficient to drive a massive nuclear procurement program. So increasing the belligerent rhetoric towards Russia is indeed necessary, even though, as Mr. Greenwald points out, it is potentially dangerous.
However, advances in technology mean that much of the US workforce is now redundant. So the prospect of a nuclear war is less frightening than it might have been in the past, at least from a neoliberal point of view.
‘So increasing the belligerent rhetoric towards Russia is indeed necessary, ‘
I only can agree – reading all this funny nonsense about ‘accusations’.
Does the author know that the German Chancellor Angela Merkel was being accused to be Hitler?
And isn’t being ‘Hitler’ much much worst than being some lame Russian “Collaborator”?
i don’t understand what you are saying.
What’s really clear is that nastywoman doesn’t understand what Benito is saying.
‘What’s really clear is that nastywoman doesn’t understand what Benito is saying.’
I just agreed with him when he said:
‘So increasing the belligerent rhetoric towards Russia is indeed necessary, ‘
And you do not understand Benito or what he means when he says such (entertaining) things. Do you even know who Benito Mussolini was?
‘Do you even know who Benito Mussolini was?’
‘Is’! – not ‘was’.
Benito Mussolini was the cat of my butcher in Verona Italy.
Nope, I meant was. You, my dear, have been ensnared by Poe’s Law, made more likely by your own ill-founded beliefs that align with “Benito’s” satire.
‘You, my dear, have been ensnared by Poe’s Law, made more likely by your own ill-founded beliefs that align with “Benito’s” satire.’
That is true as my ill-founded believe was to have my satire more aligned with yours than a Italian butchers cat.
Retreating into intentional silliness isn’t going to obscure what you have shown yourself to be.
‘Belief’, it’s ‘belief’ not ‘believe’, similarly, above it was ‘accept’ not ‘except’. Please, if you’re going to troll, at least check your spelling and grammar.
The US needs to invest trillions in upgrading its nuclear arsenal. This presents a tremendous opportunity for firms to seize some of the most lucrative procurement contracts of all time.
Yes. And it was President Obama who, despite campaigning to reduce and eliminate our nuclear arsenal and winning a Nobel Peace Prize as a result – how fucking short-sighted of the Nobel committee to reward a politician for unproven self-serving assertions – announced early last year a 30-year, $1 trillion program to modernize the U.S. nuclear-weapon arsenal.
Since then there have been populist uprisings in a number of countries, people expressing their displeasure with the agendas of their betters in ways that might make the ruling class worry that people are getting fed up with anything that does nothing to help them directly. It is unfortunate that people cannot use expensive war toys for food or shelter. It is doubly unfortunate that those toys ensure the need for more health care, not less.
So, then, how to convince people who are hungry, who have to work multiple jobs to pay their bills, who are losing their homes (or have already lost them), still can’t access health care (in spite of being forced to pay large chunks of money to insurance companies already reneging on their part of the deal), that wasting a trillion dollars on weapons we should be destroying instead is an absolute imperative?
The threat of terrorists is waning in the public mind. The manufactured plots the FBI scrounges up are not enough to force people to feel sufficient fear to enable Congress to freely continue lining the pockets of themselves and the arms manufacturers. People are recognizing that the most existential threats to them and their loved ones come not from foreign powers, but from the powers they themselves have elected. A distraction is needed most urgently. And so they ignore the dangers they provoke,
And they ignore the counselors who remonstrate,
In order to ensure their own pecuniary plenitude.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2016/01/24/beware-obama-nuclear-weapons-plan/IJP9E48w3cjLPlTqMhZdFL/story.html
Oppenheimer must have felt terribly alone in that moment when he finally knew without a doubt what he had created.
“This presents a tremendous opportunity for firms to seize some of the most lucrative procurement contracts of all time.”
I say, there Benito, that sounds like an excellent proposal. Let’s start up a consortium and use it to seize our share of those lucrative procurement contracts. We can call it The Immaculate Intercept/ion Consortium.
What say you?
yeeeeeeeeees….. this is very true.
The artful facista goblins on wallstreet and their trolls in the USG, not being of sound mind and body nor true wit and wisdom, are genuine trial and error exceptionalists at getting money into the economy. Stuffing their pockets with $100 bills fresh off the press exposes them to unwanted criticism. They learned the hard way that raising prices and credit card indebtability with higher interest rates only works when they can take that freshly printed currency and hand it to military warmonks who run the $1-for-yous-$2-fer-mes scheme. The $2-fer being the brass roles as both generals on the gov dole and board members on the wallstreet corp-o-con.
The $1 is then distributed to the population provide that the poulation also works for the warmonks as employees or soldiers.
Poland is the main invasion route to Russia. Both Napoleon and Hitler went that way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia
Thanks…only 95% of those who pos here know that, as they aren’t “educated” by the state of Texas.
Most educated by Texas wouldn’t be able to place it on a map were it not for the happy coincidence that Texas is the national leader in state-shaped belt buckle fashion.
all that is exactly what a kremlin stooge would say
thank you for your vigilance!
yours,
Tailgunner Joe