The bizarre saga of potential Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election has created a genuine emergency in American politics. This isn’t necessarily because of Russia’s actual actions — unless the most peculiar allegations turn out to be accurate — but because of Donald Trump’s response, and what this indicates about how he’ll govern.
Ignore the Trump “dossier” for the moment and forget the baseless conjecture about Russia hacking the U.S. voting process itself. All we need to know about Trump and the Republican Party can be found in their position on the simplest, most plausible part of the story: that Russia was behind the hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and John Podesta.
Is this in fact what happened? Certainly the Obama administration did itself no favors by failing to release any of the evidence underlying the strong conclusions in the the Office of the Director of National Intelligence’s report. But Trump himself said at last week’s press conference, presumably based on a classified briefing, that “I think it was Russia.” Mike Pompeo, Trump’s nominee to run the Central Intelligence Agency, agreed during his confirmation hearings. There’s also the crucial dog that hasn’t barked: Unlike during the lead up to the Iraq War, no one from the intelligence agencies has been leaking doubts or claims that they’re being leaned on by the White House to provide the desired conclusion.
Under these circumstances, the reaction of anyone who actually cares about the United States has to be: We must investigate this with great seriousness and impartiality and find out exactly what happened. This requires an independent commission with sufficient funding, a broad mandate and legal authority that Congress creates but then can no longer influence.
Nothing should be less controversial than this. Whatever a nation’s political disagreements, in any functioning democracy there’s just one position on this issue: Only citizens can participate in deciding who governs it.
In every other circumstance Republicans love wrapping themselves in the flag and vowing to protect us from dastardly foreigners, even if this requires renaming the french fries in the congressional cafeteria. Few do this more than Trump himself, whose entire campaign was about the apocalyptic danger posed to us by China, Mexico, the freeloaders of NATO, Muslims from anywhere, and so on. Yet on the subject of Russia and this election he’s suddenly indifferent — even though fear of this type of foreign influence doesn’t require jingoistic xenophobia but just a rational, healthy belief in small-d democratic self-determination.
This is one of the key topics of George Washington’s 1796 Farewell Address, the most famous political rhetoric in American history until the Gettysburg Address. “Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence,” Washington warned, “the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.”
Washington was particularly concerned by the “common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party” – that is, loyalty to your own faction within the country above the country overall. This, he said, “opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions” and allows other countries to “practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils.”
Trump and the GOP are now busy proving how prescient Washington was. Trump has not endorsed an independent investigation of any Russian actions aimed at the election, nor released the financial information that would clarify any business relationships he has with Russians or Russian banks. Moreover, he can’t even bring himself to pretend in public that any of it matters much (although it’s hard to tell whether this is because he fears we’ll find out something nefarious he did or simply because his ego can’t bear his victory being thrown into doubt). Of all of Trump’s violations of basic democratic norms, his indifference to this most basic principle of self-government is the most shocking of all.
Meanwhile, most congressional Republicans are hoping to quietly bury this issue in rigged, limited investigations that you can be sure will take so long that no one will remember what it was all about by the time they’re done. Their faction has power, and that’s all they care about.
There are, of course, endless potential quibbles with and distractions from this central reality. But none of them amount to much.
Do we know that the release of emails changed the outcome of the election? No, and it’s possible they didn’t. So what? Interference in our elections should be unacceptable under any circumstances.
Aren’t we hugely hypocritical for complaining about this, given America’s overbearing interventions in dozens of other countries? It depends on who “we” are. Yes, the CIA and U.S. political leaders have no grounds to object to this. But regular Americans do, just as regular Iranians, Guatemalans, Chileans and many, many others have every right to object to what we’ve done.
Do many of the those pushing this, such as Arizona Senator John McCain, want to use this as an excuse to start a new cold war with Russia? Absolutely. Moreover, they also embody exactly what Washington meant when he said that concern about foreign influence “must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it.” McCain and company are perfectly fine with foreign influence on U.S. politics when it originates with Saudi Arabia or Israel. But if we don’t find out what truly happened, that space won’t be filled with a reasonable appraisal of our relations with Russia but with more dangerous, crazed speculation.
And finally, are elite Democrats using this subject as as excuse for their own spectacular failures? Yes, of course. But again, ignoring this won’t make them face reality; instead they’ll fall further down a comforting rabbit hole. As Bernie Sanders has said on this subject, “You gotta walk and chew bubble gum” — i.e., both investigate what happened and rebuild progressive forces around the country.
So what’s most deeply frightening about this whole story isn’t what Russia did or didn’t do. It’s that Trump’s response and the Republican blessing of it is Trump’s most powerful demonstration that absolutely all bets are off. If he’ll do this, there’s nothing he won’t do, and nothing the GOP won’t let him get away with.
Top photo: Donald Trump walks on stage during a Republican presidential candidate debate in North Charleston, S.C. on Jan. 14, 2016.
There should be an investigation of foreign interference in American elections. It should not be limited to Russia which is likely a minor league player in this sport compared to Red China and Israel. Nor should it be limited to governments, foreign counter-government bodies, such as the IRA, should be probed.
Remember, too, there is nothing new about this. The career of Citizen Genet is an early example. British intelligence worked mightily to draw the US in both World Wars. Any study should examine both what foreign entities engage in such activities and what Americans, institutions and demographic groups are prone to cooperating with interference. Name and Shame them all.
Jon Schwarz had better rethink his axiom: “in any functioning democracy … Only citizens can participate in deciding who governs it.” The trick word is “participate”. In the present chauvinistic howl to which Schwarz contributes, when a non-citizen provides information to a citizen that influences the citizen’s decision, the non-citizen has participated in the decision. There are many different shades to this “information”. It might be true or false information. It might be provided in the spirit of education or with the bias to influence the decision. It might be fairly gotten or unfairly gotten information. Etc. We can’t accept Schwarz’s axiom as it stands. Suppose a candidate is running for US president whose policies are clearly harmful to the world. Suppose a scientist outside the US offers public proof of this, with the clear intention to harm that US candidate’s chance of election. Great! Doesn’t Schwarz understand that it’s a big world, and that US actions have wide consequences? We’re not in George Washington’s world now. Now it’s imperative for non-US citizens to be concerned about the US government. Worldwide curiosity about US politics isn’t only for amusement. Schwarz can amend his axiom to: “in any functioning democracy … Only citizens can decide who governs it”; omitting the problematic “participate”. The influential democracy should expect its citizens to be informed by, indeed influenced by non-citizens. That is how the world works. When the citizens of an influential democracy are too naive to make good decisions amidst such influence, then the influential democracy fails.
in Obama’s last news conference he admitted that it was a leak not a hack. this is what former NSA head William Binney has always maintained. Donald trump is a monster but if he can establish peaceful relations with Russia and derail the new cold war the US deep state seems intent on waging, I’m all for it.
It’s crazy talk to not demand a serious, immediate investigation into Russian interference in the election.
It’s crazy talk to think we should shrug our shoulders because the CIA has ruined other countries’ elections.
Why did Obama drag his feet on explaining to Americans what was really going on? I am skeptical that there was no further hacking after he told Putin “to cut it out” in early September. There was still an enormous amount of anti-Clinton propaganda left to spew over Facebook.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/obama-putin-232754
The so-called interference in our election exposed DNC corruption of the utmost significance. Their illicit deposing of Sanders and other revalations comprises very critical information for preserving our democracy. Wikileaks served our nation where our mainstream media failed. Greg Plast has exposed the Koch Brothers’ GOP Crosscheck which continues to disenfranchise millions of legitimate minority voters and it successfully installed Trump. This real election fraud is being completely ignored . Russia is not the problem. Wikileaks has stated they were not the source . It is neo-McCarthyist scapegoating for ulterior motives such as massively increasing global militarization.
Obama in his last press conference as president literally said There was no link between wikileaks and the Russian hacks. So how did wikileaks get the DNC and Podesta e-mails ? Wasn’t wikileaks part of the Russian strategy to influence the US elections ? This contradicts what MSM and Jon Schwarz himself have been trying to make us believe.
This hysteria about ‘Russian meddling’ is unbecoming of any serious media outlet.
If the worst that occurred was a hack of Podesta’s (‘Password:password’) server, we should thank the Russians and send them a crate of booze for making this election so very entertaining and relevant.
I think the expectation that Johnny Foreigner shouldn’t meddle with ‘our’ elections is touchingly naive. If you purport to dig globalism, you cannot shield your political process from foreign propaganda or influence. (I think the US has a lot of experience in this field.)
And as for being such a truthful and right-on publication, sentences like ‘If he’ll do this, there’s nothing he won’t do, and nothing the GOP won’t let him get away with.’ makes you sound a little ridiculous frankly. Give the man some time and see what happens. I’m sure he won’t breakfast on babies.
What we are missing in this story is the commentary on the other nation states that were “actors” in the hacks against the DNC and others. No mention of Chinese, Israeli, French and others that scan/hack all government related organizations. I work in security in and around DC. I’ve seen the logs and responded to attacks. Nation state hacks are stealthy, use Zero-day threats and typically come from the list of nation states I just listed. China is the number one source of these hacks.
If we are going to investigate, let’s lay bare the fact that the Chinese, right this minute, are deeply infested in our government networks. Let’s investigate how insecure our networks are. Maybe with public attention they will take some simplistic steps like not emailing credentials (something I’ve experienced on more than one occasion). Where’s the outrage at these issues and mass infection of our govt networks????
You’ve got to be kidding with this column. As if the U.S. doesn’t meddle in other countries’ elections and hasn’t overthrown regimes it doesn’t like? The U.S. was largely responsible for the coup in the Ukraine and installed the leader it wanted. It has also recently Honduras, Libya, Iraq, and Haiti. This column is really hypocritical.
If the U.S. hadn’t done any of this, the column would have some merit. But considering the big picture, gimme a break!
…but perhaps you appreciate this paragraph?
(read the quote from George Washington three times)
“Do many of the those pushing this, such as Arizona Senator John McCain, want to use this as an excuse to start a new cold war with Russia? Absolutely. Moreover, they also embody exactly what Washington meant when he said that concern about foreign influence “must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it.” McCain and company are perfectly fine with foreign influence on U.S. politics when it originates with Saudi Arabia or Israel. But if we don’t find out what truly happened, that space won’t be filled with a reasonable appraisal of our relations with Russia but with more dangerous, crazed speculation.”
Trump = Putin’s Most Useful Idiot
Hillary= Trump’s most useful idiot.
Russia tried to interfere with our 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Damn them for failing.
“Nothing should be less controversial than this. Whatever a nation’s political disagreements, in any functioning democracy there’s just one position on this issue: Only citizens can participate in deciding who governs it.”
Yes, no country has ever meddled in another country’s elections. Especially not the USA meddling in, say, the democratic elections of South American countries.
But above and beyond this, what are other countries, like Russia, supposed to do? Because even a single news report out of Russia disfavorable to Hillary is “meddling.” This article is about as credible as the claims that Russia is solely responsible for Hillarys loss, or the DNC’s embarassment (at being hacked – and at fielding the far less favorable of the two candidates they had.) When retired intelligence professional and former CIA officer William Binney can come out and say that it was more likely a leak than a hack, the fact that the ongoing beating of the already dead and mutilated horse hasn’t stopped yet may well point to a full fledged war behind the scenes of the US Intel community. Not that Trump’s cabinet choices paint his campaign promises to “clean the swamp” as anything but a huge stretch of the imagination, but apparently the mere thought of a Trump presidency is a huge threat to someone. Perhaps its Bill and Hillary flexing their well-developed political muscle behind the scenes?
I’m guessing the author’s ‘redline ‘, that a viable democracy must have elections decided by “citizens” is an approximation…
One cannot insist on citizen vote and be Politically Correct. California for instance would subtract a couple million votes if only Citizen voters were valid.
After skimming the, so far, 111 comments it’s clear the author Joh Schwarz would be better off working for USAToday.
In my News/Bookmarks fly-out tab I just lowered ‘The Intercept’ to near the bottom of the list. I honestly believe that was the agenda of whomever hired Jon.
Finally an argument in favor of pursuing this Russian hacking story I can agree with to a certain extent.
I do think, however, that while we can walk and chew gum at the same time, the reality is that the Russian story is sucking the air out of the room. There is little energy left to talk about the issue that matter, and there are so very many of them.
IMHO, we need to let this go and work at unifying the 99% against the anti-democratic anti-human policies of the political establishment and the corpratocracy they represent. The left just doesn’t have the resources to sustain multiple fronts in a meaningful way at this juncture.
Would love to be wrong, though.
These titles above TI articles are telling
Remember this one from Jon and Jeremy?
‘Obama must
Declassify
Evidence of
Russian Hacking’
Which is similar to
‘Obama must
Declassify
Evidence of
Extraterrestrial life’
Etc.
This time TI called Jon’s article:
‘The real reason
Any Russian
Meddling is an
Emergency’
But since we live in a society where one is innocent until one is proven guilty, there is no ‘Russian
Meddling’. Therefore, there is no ‘Emergency’. Therefore, there is no ‘real reason’. And therefore, based on the title only, Jon’s article can only reveal… nothing.
[“We must investigate this with great seriousness and impartiality and find out exactly what happened.”] This is horse-shit – if they investigate this, they will end up exactly where they started, because there is no “there” there. Now, Under the circumstances, the reaction of anyone who actually cares about the United States has to be: We must investigate all cases of voter suppression, election fraud (including voter machine tampering by both parties), and gerrymandering with great seriousness and impartiality and find out exactly what happened – there lies the threat to democracy, and there’s where the tax dollars and the effort should go.
[“Only citizens can participate in deciding who governs it.”] Yes, but anyone can provide evidence in an effort to sway the citizens’ decision in their favor. We do this in other country’s elections all the time – and we do much much worse.
[“Trump and the GOP are now busy proving how prescient Washington was.”] NO! George Washington was NOT prescient! Washington warned about the dangers of foreign influence, because it was happening then at the time he wrote about it, and he knew it would likely continue to be a problem in the country’s future elections – that’s observation NOT prescience.
[“Interference in our elections should be unacceptable under any circumstances.”] That would be true if, and only if, we had free and fair elections to begin with, but we have neither for the above-stated reasons (plus a host of others that weren’t listed, such as the disgusting media coverage of the election, James Comey’s actions, etc.).
This analysis of Trump’s response to CIA & Clinton Democrat claims about “the Russian threat” is more realistic:
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/01/16/donald-trump-v-the-spooks/
The split within the Republican Party between the likes of McCain and Rand and Trump is also interesting, almost unprecedented (although Clinton smears such targeting Obama were a feature of the 2008 primary, they ended after that); the fact that McCain is closer to Democrats like Dianne Feinstein on foreign policy agendas is also telling. There really is a “Deep State” – Pentagon/State Department/CIA/NSA, corporate contractors for the complex, and long-term congressional supporters (essentially all members of the Senate and House Intelligence Committees, plus the military appropriations committees).
nonsense.
here is the truth
https://sputniknews.com/us/201612141048568197-nsa-whistleblower-binney-cia-lying-russia/
the MURDER OF SETH RICH had to be a conspiratorial arrangement between the DNC, CIA, maybe mossad, possibly f…b…i…, or his murder wold have been largely solved by now with named persons of interest.
From SPUTNIK?
You are either very stupid or you think we are.
Hint, we’re not.
As to Binney’s claim, it is easily reasonable to understand that the Russians had the material hacked by a State sponsored “contractor” or from a post in Syria and only then was it put on a flash drive or re-encrypted and sent to wherever.. and eventually to Assange.
Which is precisely what appears to have happened.
Eventually you will stop limiting your reading to Russian propagandist websites and dailys. Sooner the better.
There’s no evidence of Russian involvement in the election, all indications are that Democrats and their sycophants in the corporate media and surveillance state are literally making things up in an effort to delegitimize Drumpf and distract from the very real scandals exposed by Wikileaks. Hell, Wikileaks is saying that the leaks came from within the DNC—disgruntled insiders fed up with the Clintons’ criminality and corruption, and that of their flunkies. But you and Biddle insist on joining that chorus harping on about Russia and Vladimir Putin. Why? On what basis? Is this even a story, let alone one worth compromising the integrity and credibility of The Intercept for?
I completely agree, except the “intelligence community” doesn’t just want to delegitimize Drumpf, they are also setting him up for impeachment, and if that doesn’t work, Hashishination.
This is such BS. If that were true, wouldn’t the “Dems and their sycophants in the corporate media” have done this BEFORE he “won” the election?
An absurd logical disconnect in my view. Snowden and Manning…. good, give them a medal. Alleged Russians….bad, nuke them.
Learning the truth is bad. Learning it from the Russians is worse.
So many paid Russian trolls here
RIP America
So many “paid Russian trolls,” here, you thought you’d add the voice of one jingoistic, gullible moron. Well done. I particularly like all of the sources you linked, supporting your thesis…
This is absurd. It is very doubtful that Putin or anyone else in Russia released the DNC emails to being with… and even more doubtful that those impacted the election, one way or another.
However – what did those emails reveal? Oh, yes – that the DNC colluded with the corporate media to smear another candidate, worked to have Trump nominated by the Republicans, and revelealed concerns about conflicts of interest that SoS Clinton might have regarding her taking bribes from the Saudi’s. Now, being that the media didn’t cover the content of the emails except to say that they were unimportant in the extreme and that there was really nothing to see there…. well, only big nerds like me were reading them.
Wall Street has spoken. Clinton / Trump was simply an A/B test – and Clinton failed it when she had her “47%” moment and called half of America “deplorable”.
“worked to have Trump nominated by the Republicans”
Care to provide a source for that?
The Wikileaks documents showed that the Democrats, during the GOP primary, worked with the media to elevate Trump and Ben Carson, who they viewed as more beatable than Bush or Rubio. They referred to them as “pied piper” candidates. Please do look it up, now that I’ve given you the basics.
I’m wondering how long he can hold up against the agencies. He’s not started working in DC yet and the Pentagon and all the profiteers have yet to weigh in to lobby (or try to crush). Can he break the decades-long failure of our foreign policy, that enriches so many?
His surprise stances keep him atop Twitter & ratings, which I am concerned is his only true motivation.
Yeah, Donald is the man….going to drain the swamp. And bring in bigger and better crocodiles.
Getting rid of the Beltway Insiders… by appointing Mitch McConnell’s wife (ex-DOL Sec) Elaine Chao.
A real man of the people…. really, really rich unprincipled people. But I digress. Although I believe the intel is probably 90% accurate, it truly doesn’t matter.
Why attempt to impeach Trump when the outcome is just going to be President Pence?
That’s one of those “out of the frying pan, into the fire” sorts of scenarios. Trump makes me wistful and nostalgic for the good old days of Dick Nixon and Ronnie Raygun. I don’t want to be looking back at the Orange Peril in a few months feeling the same way.
Was it Ben Franklin who said that we get the government we deserve?
US voters should be thankfull to any ‘agent’ helping them to make an informed choice….after all only true genuine e-mails were published. The real problem for US democracy is the brainwashing power of the MSM which promotes the un- or rather dis-informed vote.
“But Trump himself said at last week’s press conference, presumably based on a classified briefing, that “I think it was Russia.”
You are seriously deluded if you conclude that this was an admission.
http://theduran.com/trump-western-media-russia-election/
It did not happen. This is a bunch of fluff and huff by the CrookdClintOs Dems. Everybody knows it is not possible, so it is ok to be dismissive of fakes.
Do you also think there should have been a congressional investigation into whether Obama was born in America or not? It seems like this whole Russia scare is just the Democratic party’s birther movement. No evidence nonsense aimed at saying the president is illegitimate.
Do you think there should be a congressional investigation into whether the DNC and Clinton campaign rigged the Democratic primary? We actually have evidence that happened, but it seems like nobody much cares.
Do you think that having both those investigations would qualify as, “Nothing should be less controversial than this”?
I expect instead you would agree that whether something is controversial or not is often dependent upon your politics and assumptions.
Yes, it is the counter to the birther bungs we had to hear, CrookdClintOs payback!
I’m so happy I live in a country where our own intelligence agencies would never try anything so grotesque.
Whether it be Nicaragua, Panama, Iran, Philipeans, Chili, Serbia, Ukraine, Sudan, Lybia, Egypt (just to name afew). Duly elected governments have been supported and drug running hit squads cast off as America has spread the Jeffersonian ideal around the world.
And, while Saudi Arabia and Zchina may not be perfect… instead of hurtful words and mocking – Saudi Arabia has a far more human policy of simply chopping the the heads off of gays..
We are all counting the days until China’s next election and I am sure the nrocons will keep them honest!
favorite part: the part where Jon asks if we are hypocritical about complaining about this [alleged, unsubstantiated] interference in our elections……having no answer other than “YES!” —- just stops the paragraph without actually dealing with the fact that, yeah, it would be hypocritical.
But for some reason we should be outraged, just cuz, Jon says in another paragraph, and…..Jon can’t actually support something that would nullify the “hypocrisy” bit mentioned above with the “just cuz” claim, so….paragraph over, again.
This is fun.
But let’s get to the penultimate paragraph. “And finally, are elite Democrats using this subject as as excuse for their own spectacular failures? Yes, of course. But again, ignoring this won’t make them face reality; instead they’ll fall further down a comforting rabbit hole.”
Let’s get into this, Jon’s sure to nail his argument with his article almost over…
It doesn’t. Jon’s crap argument here is that we should pay more attention to a completely unsubstantiated claim about Russians, even though the Democrats are going to misuse it, basically because Democrats are stupid and beyond help. Um, what in the actual fuck. Jon, do you have any principles whatsoever? Maybe write an article on what those would be, since they appear to want to keep you & Mackey around to suck up to dimwit democrats.
This is why the rest of us should freak out about Russians, incidentally: Jon’s totally incoherent article. I think I said something was the “worst thing I’ve read on the Intercept” a week or two ago, but new records keep getting set. And I praise plenty of articles around here, just to be clear about it
Anyway, Jon is not one to speak of rabbit holes, obviously dwelling in one himself. What does your rabbit hole look like, Jon? I take it it’s a sort of “spartan” rabbit hole, tasteful shelving? addressing the hard truths that the Washington Post hacks are really right about stuff in the larger sense, munching on raw root vegetables? ….
shark jumped, Jon.
buh-bye
“nor released the financial information that would clarify any business relationships he has with Russians or Russian banks.”
Why should he? This is like berating Obama for not releasing his birth certificate in the face of evidence-less free clamor from the far right. He was right not to respect that even enough to take a proactive or reactive step. And Trump (and rational thinkers) shouldn’t respect the laughably light proffered “intelligence” enough to have to defend against it. One can’t prove a negative. And so far there’s no positive intelligence released.
The burden of proof is on the accuser. If none is forthcoming they should rightfully be ignored. If an investigation is due even though again, lack of evidence, fine. But asking Trump to react as if the evidence is already in is foolish. No President would/should react in such a manner.
The question is not whether the Russians did or did not. The point is that Trump himself says “I think it was Russia” and is basically saying “so what, it doesn’t matter”. This is despite the norm of Russia paranoia.
This is a very unusual attitude.
Thank god I trust my own judgement. Trumps not a problem. No one guy has ever stuck it to the IC like he is and lived to tell the tale. Trumps no saint but I need to see how far he can push the Deep State into revealing itself while you and a few other deliberately obtuse (D) Intercept apologists focus on Donald Trump (a messenger) rather than the message (the IC did it) like the Deep State focused on Edward Snowden (a messenger) rather than the message (the IC did it)
By all means Jon let comprehensive hearings on one altogether minor league (NSA or Russian or…)leaking of email archives be placed in historical perspective ONCE AND FOR ALL both in context in comparison to the wholesale OPM hijacking (NSA or Chinese or…) of the personnel files and background checks of Every US Intelligence Agency Employee (and their families) Over The Last 50 Years. Maybe then you’ll grasp what Kellyann Conway Trumps campaign manager means by the US GOVs “disproportionate response” to Russias alleged involvement before the ink dried on their erroneous, outdated and poorly executed intelligence estimates each more laughable than that which preceded it,
Trumps fucking with the people the Feinsteins, Schumers, Pelosis, and Schiffs ARE TO SCARED TO OVERSEE and (newsflash Jonni) that aint the Russians. Trumps limitations are already clearly delineated. Have been for years. But so now clearly are his strengths Even from a recently arrived (D) Intercept faux anti establishment reporters perspective the object of your derision (like Julian Assange) possesses a a ravery all to foreign to a non adversarial press.
A fine summation. I just never understood how the allegation of Russian involvement, in any of the things related to the U.S. election in which they are alleged to have been involved, was ever made out even at the level of “probable cause” that would justify additional official inspection. Trump’s statement of his own belief about whether the Russians were involved after being briefed by the most unreliable and self-interested cabal in American public life adds nothing to the scale of purportedly bad smells emanating from the Eurasian land mass under the control of Putin. Nothing Trump says about anything has any weight whatsoever, except as a byword for his present blustery and narcissistic mental state, so it can’t contribute to ground any warrant that would be issued by any impartial judge who believes in reality and thinks it is important. That leaves the rest of the reckless and venal and mendacious belligerents in and around the intelligence “community” and the U.S. Congress, and President Obama, who is vastly more cynical than he is given credit for: we should believe these scoundrels? When their unsavory and dangerous motives are so unabashedly transparent? We’ve seen this movie before, but this time it portends nuclear annihilation. For that reason alone, this outrageous propaganda should be treated by journalists especially as presumptively false, not merely unknown and apparently worth looking into.
I usually agree with Jon, but the logic here escapes me. Sure, we should investigate whether the Russians stole the emails. I am guessing they did. Is it as super important as Jon says? No. Sure, the Republicans are being hypocritical, as are the Democrats. So what is new?
If we are making wishes about how our society should function, I would start with wishing for prosecution of high ranking officials guilty of war crimes such as torture or the current abomination going on in Yemen. And then we could investigate the people responsible for the financial collapse in 2008. We already know that Republicans and Democrats will commit war crimes– how exactly is looking the other way when Russia steals emails worse than this? I am not snarking. This just seems upside down to me. Worst case scenario is that Trump collaborated in stealing the emails. This seems highly unlikely but even if so, it still falls short of the things we have done to other people. In fact, the reason Trump’s victory is bad is not how he might have gotten there, but because of the bad things he will do once he has power. Possibly more war crimes, among other things.
Why don’t we focus on the worst things we do, instead of ignoring them and going after the lesser crimes? It is like getting Al Capone on tax evasion– you only do that if you can’t get him on murder.
If I were in Trump’s position, I would do exactly the same thing. Nothing good can come from him playing into the hands of this author and his fellow travelers that want to discredit the Trump presidency. Even civil rights has-been John Lewis recently bleated that Trump is illegitimate. Why on Earth would any sentient being with even a tiny bit of common sense play the hands of John Lewis and Jon Schwarz and their ilk?
Ed G
Equating John Lewis (a certifiable hero whos clearly and unfortunately been sold on the ICs Russophobia BUT nonetheless originally labeled Snowden a hero) with Jon Schwartz (and their “ilk”) is uncomfortable for me struggling as I am to reconcile Lewis’ undeniably genuine righteous historical bravery with his misinformed capitulation to as yet unsupportable Deep State Russophobic sensibilities…
Oh well to hell with it Ed. Their Ilk. Barbara (only vote against Iraq invasion) Lees a Russophobe now to along with Ted Lieu, Keith Ellison, Jason Chaffetz and so many other US anti domestic surveillance beacons
:-(
Jon, doesn’t your claim that “in a functioning democracy there’s just one position on this issue: only citizens can participate in deciding who governs it” sound antiquated post-Citizens United? What scrutiny did the FEC ever apply to Jeb! and APIC?
Eh, Jon? … Jooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Answer please. I’m sick of this point’s constant, glaring omission from the discussion. All this shit’s above board thanks to the SC.
Does the author seriously believe Americans are a “free peoples”?
At what point did I wake up with my head sewn to the carpet?
Trump may be Russia-friendly in that he does not want to go into Ukraine or Syria to kill Russians in a proxy war as the CIA and neocons and Clintonites want to do.
Russian stooge, however, I am very doubtful.
His stance towards Beijing, especially if he turns an ear to Kissinger will be like Nixon and Mao — bluster on the surface, but golf games and business deals, etc. for the meat of the relationship. He has surrounded himself with some real pro-Taiwan independence (read: pro-Japan, the Taiwan antionalist movement now is almost 100% led by “Japan did nothing wrong in WW2″ people).
Beijing: rocky relationship, rocky start
Cuba: Anti-Cuba
Iran: anti-Iran
How on earth can someone who wants to roll back the Iran nuclear agreement and de-normalize relations with Cuba be a Russian stooge?
This tarring of people with Russian ties, applied in America, England and much of Europe (I can’t speak for the rest of Britain), seems to have no ideological consistency. It’s just applied to anyone who is competing with the status quo and/or competing with the largest plurality of voters.
If Russia was smart enough to save us (the USA) from Hellary, then Hallelujah!
Absolutely. Whether it was Russia or some 400 pounder in his Mommie’s basement, the leaked but true emails helped save us from the worst possible person to ever run for president — Hillary Clinton. Thank you, anonymous leaker or hacker or whatever.
Obviously if this fantastic story was true then Russia acted as a whistle blower and deserves all our thanks, regardless of whether you supported Clinton or not. It’s a shame we’ve done nothing with the information that was leaked.
The mainstream media is totally complicit in the email contents gaining no traction. Their open support of and deference to Hillary Clinton is a professional embarrassment.
No, it is not.
A former British Ambassador named Craig Murray has admitted that he was given the DNC emails by a DNC insider and that he passed them on to WikiLeaks.
How does a journalist not know this?
Because he’s a “journalist”, not a journalist.
True, but I thought TI was going to be different. Silly me.
Jon, it’s “plausible” that anyone, with the possible exception of the Keebler Elves, were responsible for hacking the Podesta email account. There are dozens of high school kids in every town in the developed world who could have done it. The same is true of the DNC material, if it was hacked rather then leaked.
Plausibility, however, means absolutely nothing in this case. Only evidence matters and we’ve seen exactly none of that.
What’s more, however the material in question may have found its way into the public sphere, it is unchallenged as to its authenticity and was of unquestioned interest to a voters about to elect a president. So, what difference does it make where it came from or what the motives of those who provided it may have been? Answer: none at all.
What unmitigated nonsense. There are real reasons to be concerned with — horrified by — a Trump presidency. This childish obsession with “the Russians” shouldn’t be anywhere on the list of an educated, sober and thinking adult — and you ought to be embarrassed that it is (still!) on yours.
Several of you who have been promoting this partisan stupidity are steadily undermining the credibility of The Intercept as a serious media outlet. If this is what your bosses and funder want, so be it. But they, and you, should at least be aware of the damage you are doing to your reputations among serious people.
What a fucking numbnuts Jon is to even write this right now, after all these media embarassments.
What a goddamn dumbass.
Retire Jon, from this site. Surely you can go work for I don’t know Slate or Salon or some other crap outfit where they peddle stupid bullshit.
I’m confused, prior to to this, my first visit to the intercept, I had the impression that this was a somewhat left of center/ left leaning news source, (though probably trying earnestly to be impartial ), but approximately 40 of the 42 previous comments on this article seem to be pro-Trump, pro-Russia or both…
That seems odd, is your readership really 90%+ pro-Trump?
Is this satire?
They try their best to be unbiased and they have some fantastic journalists who don’t try and shove propaganda down our throats. They allow comments and don’t have a voting system which is another positive. They also weren’t implicated in the Wikileaks releases. (The media is in bed with the DNC 100%). Most of us here in the comments section are (IMO) close to “center” on the political spectrum. Most of us just want our news as unbiased as possible which is hard to find.
What on earth is this fool writing about?
“Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence,” Washington warned, “the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.”
This is what OTHER governments have to worry about. WE are the ones spying on everyone, WE are the ones with military bases in their backyards, WE are the ones who engineered the collapse of the Soviet Union, etc. etc.
Besides our own 24/7 365 spying, manipulating, sabotaging, plotting against Russia & Putin… EVERY other nation is doing the same to each other and then internally to their own people.
Why is the Intercept assisting this new propaganda boogyman of ‘Foreign Influence’ attacking Americas Democracy? Who falls for this crap?!
First off we don’t have a Democracy we have a Plutocratic Police State. Second, ‘hacking’ is the norm and the least of our concerns when Wall Street / Banks, go unchecked and our global life support system is dying.
Nobody cares if Russia is trying to hack us or that Trump DOES have strong financial ties to the Russian Mob. The 1% are all crooks to begin with so whats the difference. They are already in bed with each other.
Give us some actual news.
Washington’s fear of foreign influence was less on principals and more of opposition to (then-Revolutionary) France, who helped fund and arm the US.
The Deep State is going to have a talk with Trump, so that he knows he will have to oppose Russia militarily, economically, politically. If he doesn’t – they’ll try to impeach him or shoot him. Odds are, though, he’ll go along…
Not to go down the conspiracy rabbit hole or draw general parallels, I would like to make this one single point:
The Deep State hasn’t hated a president this much since JFK.
Note how cleverly Mr. Schwarz is trying to manipulate people
into believing the democrats must be saved from themselves
and the evil republicans
as if they aren’t both undeserving of ANY trust or attention
while he promotes the delusion that the faking U$A is
something resembling a democracy.
What rubbish!
the reality lies in solving the murder of Seth Rich.
how come it isn’t talked about?
how come no material facts are being mentioned?
how come he was shot in the back by a supposed robber?
how come nothing was stolen?
how come no videos are available for the mile perimeter before and after?
how come the details of the immediate events are mentioned so generically?
if the robberies were so common, how come zero persons of interest?
someone benefitted from his murder.
who?
There’s thousands of unsolved murders in this country. What we need to worry about is Trump, let local police investigate local crimes. Take your conspiracy theories to Breitbart.
The Cold War never really ended. Russia never allowed genuine religious freedom – it was never possible even for Catholics to start churches freely in Russia. And the fundamental difference between American and Russian aspirations was never capitalism vs. communism – there has always been much of each in the other – but in freedom of expression. As a result, there always has been distrust, and the nukes were never really shut down and packed away.
With a KGB man in power, with Russian assassins running free to assassinate people with polonium in Europe, with planes buzzing NATO and proxy wars in Eastern Europe, the notion of the Cold War being over is ridiculous. Never was really, obviously isn’t now. And so Cold War thinking goes on. But let’s just hope it goes on being as Cold as ever.
i don’t think i’ve ever heard the Cold War defined in terms of Russian religious freedoms, or civil rights.
I think Schwarz is right: The most frightening thing about this isn’t Russia’s behavior. But, he’s wrong if he thinks it’s Trumps. More than anything Trump could dream up, the Democrat’s instant, child-like response of blaming and finger pointing in reaction to released emails that showed how slimy the DNC and Democratic Party had become, gave the nation a very illuminating glimpse of how they’d govern, how weak and vulnerable they were themselves and how weak and vulnerable that would make us. That scared the living crap out of millions, making it much easier to reject them.
Antes you seriously think that publishing private emails from RNC wouldn’t reveal exactly the same kind of political machinations, and perhaps even jucier tidbits linked to the endless obstruction campaigns they ran the past 8 years, the Benghazi witch-hunt, etc., etc.
Thanks in large part to the stellar effort of people like Mr Schwarz.
This sounds reasonable: if Russians hacked, the election may be tainted. The problem is that there is a hige hole in this reasoning. To have interfered in the election, Russia not only had to hack, they had to have passed along what they hacked to Wikileaks. But the government has zero evidence that Russia or anyone else who may have hacked the DNC and Podesta was Wikileaks’ source. WIkileaks asserts in no uncertain terms that its source was not Russia or any state actor. Craig Murray who is close to Wikileaks says it was insider leakers, not outsider hackers who supplied the material to Wikileaks, and former intelligence officers like William Binney and Ray McGovern agree. Unless evidence surfaces that Wikileaks is lying or mistaken, there is zero evidence that Russia influenced the election in any way and so no justification for setting up a board of inquiry to examine such influence. There is only the question of hacking which should be handled in the same way suspected hacking is dealt with by the US when other countries do it and by other countries when the US does it.
publicizing the internal communications of an organization that is effectively one of the administrative bodies overseeing a (claimed) democratic election ? tainted election.
that “?” was a “does not equal” sign. not sure why it got changed in the post. the statement was supposed to be;
publicizing the internal communications of an organization that is effectively one of the administrative bodies overseeing a (claimed) democratic election *does not equal* tainted election.
I take you mean “even if it were the Russians who leaked it”? If so, I agree. But that apparently is not the view of the author of this article. He seems to take the view that if the Russians gave it to Wikileaks, there was foreign interference that tainted the election, and on that basis calls for a big investigation. My point was that the intelligence agencies do not even claim to have a shred of evidence of this. They only claim to have evidence that the Russians hacked. But if they can’t show that the Russians passed what they hacked to Wikileaks, then they have no evidence that the Russians or any other foreign power intervened in the election, and Schwarz’s call for an investigation is equally baseless. In fact, the only foreign power that is known to have directly interfered in the election is Britain, whose former intelligence operative passed the Golden Showers dossier on Trump to the FBI with MI6 permission. It’s that interference that Schwarz, Greenwald, and others should be worrying about.
The 17 intelligence agencies claim to have evidence that supports their assertions, but choose not to make it public. Mr. Schwartz calls for
Can Congress grant this commission the authority to force the Executive to release evidence against its will? The President is generally given a lot of leeway in matters of national security, so if the President claims that releasing the information will expose methods and capabilities, I doubt that an ‘independent commission’ would have the Constitutional Authority to override him. It is equally unlikely that Russia will recognize the authority of the commission to subpoena Russian Government documents. So the only remaining option is for the commission to create their own spy agency, hack into Russian computers, uncover the evidence and then make it public. I’m not too confident they will succeed, but maybe they can unearth a juicy sex scandal which will distract everybody’s attention and make it all worthwhile.
Maybe they can also investigate why I added a ‘t’ in Mr. Schwarz’s last name.
I sometimes wonder whether he is misspelling his name for these articles so he can hide his shame from colleagues and potential employers Googling his actual Schwartz-ness. I bet his first name has an “h”, as well. Or maybe, it’s a nom de plume, and his true name is Victor van Smoochenböetten.
The commission also might be empowered to create its own evidence and documents, specially tailored to avoid any possibility of leaking all those stunningly delicate methods and capabilities, yet chock full of the gut wrenching overpowering paranoia, and complex trails of interlocking evidentiary material, replete with meta-data, and meta- meta data, and whatnot,with all the years and reams of trimmings, that ‘murkans have come to Know and love as the gospel of St. Nukem.
Jon is a liar. He doesn’t feel these contacts with Russia are important at all. He just hates Trump. The proof is obvious:
“Uranium One’s chairman used his family foundation to make four donations totaling $2.35 million. Those contributions were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons”
“And shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock.”
“The Times published an article revealing the 2005 trip’s link to Mr. Giustra’s Kazakhstan mining deal. It also reported that several months later, Mr. Giustra had donated $31.3 million to Mr. Clinton’s foundation.”
“A review of tax records in Canada, where Mr. Telfer has a family charity called the Fernwood Foundation, shows that he donated millions of dollars more, during and after the critical time when the foreign investment committee was reviewing his deal with the Russians.”
“The $500,000 fee — among Mr. Clinton’s highest — was paid by Renaissance Capital, a Russian investment bank with ties to the Kremlin.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
Here we have ‘ Russia’s actual actions’ — massive bribes to Hillary Clinton while she was SOS so she could approve the Uranium One deal. This is about a million times as serious as whatever Trump is accused of … maybe talking to the wrong Russian or selling them condos. Hillary was SOS when she did this — a trillion times more unethical.
Moral of the Story: Liberals don’t care about politicians’ ties to Russia. If they did they would have never considered Hillary. Liberals are only blind with hate for Trump and are now grasping at any straw to assuage their false consciousness and the world-class cognitive dissonance that Glenn Greenwald is finally pointing out.
Lost in this commentary, the author omits the Elephant in the Room. Do we or do we not want to saber rattle with Russia…leading to ultimately, a nuclear standoff? MAD, indeed.
When Trump says he would prefer a civil relationship with Russia, or one in which he can effect some commonality in agreement, then I’m all for it. I find this Russia thing suddenly arising when the Hillary-bots couldn’t wouldn’t accept that they lost the election ….because of HER. It is too easy to blame the Russians here…witness the utter stupidity of Lewis bemoaning that Trump is an ‘illegitimate’ President to be.
Just think….if HRC was elected, we would be at the brink of war. The Democrats want this? The neocons and neoliberals surely do. I shutter to think of it. We escaped her wrath.
And if Trump keeps the peace, go go Trump!
Remember that FDR sat with Stalin, and Reagan sat with Gorbachev, and Nixon went to China. It is far easier to work on Peace, than wage war because of some hacking.
Anyway, since when does the USA have a leg to stand on this issue? We are cyberhacking every day…Russia, China, and elsewhere. Talk about chutzpah.
It is a very low bar to say the most plausible part of the story of the election is that Russia accessed the emails of the DNC and John Podesta when you have so much information out there that is implausible. You ask us to accept this as a premise for the entire story that follows and yet you fail to mention the incredible lack of sophistication that this particular attack showed. When a state level actor wants to access information they can do so… especially in a target manner. Certainly have an investigation if you desire… but at least acknowledge that at worst what happened was the russians helped the democrats fulfill their pledge for transparency.
I have also read reports that the Russians would NEVER leave traces. Sophisticated cyberhacking surely requires some expertise.
I think I’ll pass on this Kool-Aid.
Compare the “nothingburger” dropped by Lewis Gannett, to the reasoned, insightful, impassioned opinion offered by rrheard…
I wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised if “Russians” were involved in hacking into the DNC servers, though I would still like to see the evidence. As for the “hacking” of John Podesta’s e-mails, maybe it was “Russians” but who knows? Some script kiddies in their mom’s basement could have set up the phishing attack that tricked him into handing over his account details.
If you follow computer security matters, you’ll know that “Russians” are constantly attempting to hack into anything and everything. They also produce malware on a commercial basis, acting like a software company for criminals, and even providing technical support and hosting services for their botnets and trojans. Some of these Russian hackers are rather brazen in their exploits. As long as they are screwing around with systems outside of Russia, they don’t need to fear extradition and therefore don’t go to any great lengths to cover their tracks. Some of them are so vane that they even “sign” their work.
But exactly how do you go from “Russians” to “Russian GOVERNMENT”? That’s where I have my doubts. What type of evidence could the U.S. government possibly have to establish that link?
Let’s see how Trump deals with it after he actually become President.
Considering how often the US has meddled in other countries’ elections (when not worse), why the f–ck s news?
You have crooked/corrupted/immoral politicians and you worry about who leaked their emails?
Get your priorities straight people.
Great analysis. The GOP Congress will of course do its best to limit investigation into Russian efforts to tilt the election. But enough insight will probably emerge from various angles, including media reports, to establish facts about Russian actions and intent. More important in my view is the question of the Trump campaign’s coordination with Russian actions. We need to know the answers–not despite the dark American history of meddling in the elections of others, but because of it.
@ Mr. Schwarz
But here’s the problem Mr. Schwarz, even though you drop in this little caveat:
Yes but it is the same CIA (and other highly biased if not prone to lying American “intelligence agencies” who theoretically could provide any “proof” the “elites” might be shown, should those elites actually desire an impartial investigation (which is highly unlikely given America’s politicians’ history).
So how do you ever “square the circle” you want to see squared in this statement:
Americans aren’t allowed to “find out” about lots of its history, which is permanently blackholed by those very same elites and intelligence agencies via classification (for 30, 40, 50 years when it is no longer mildly useful in changing Americans understanding of their government or being able to influence policy, and even when release only as historical records).
So it follows that a) it is highly unlikely that even if there was an “impartial” investigation (which is likely impossible in America, unless you thought things like Whitewater or Clinton’s impeachment were impartial or the 9-11 investigation), that it would “end the crazed speculation”, or b) that such an “investigation” simply wouldn’t be cabined or influenced in such a way as to serve the “interests” of the bipartisan majority of America’s foreign policy consensus re: Russia or anyone else, which really hasn’t been serving America well for, oh, let’s say 60 years or more.
And yet you’re afraid Donald Trump might buck that entire consensus to forge better relations with Russia, notwithstanding the “truth” about any degree or kind of “interference” with our election by Russia (“interference” being a misnomer unless you believe releasing true information about American politicians for American citizens’ consumption is “interfering”, and I’d love to hear you explain that argument how Americans can’t be trusted with as much true information about their government as they can get their hands on without regard to the source of said true information).
And finally, you argue that “regular Americans” just like regular citizens from all the countries we’ve screwed with and directly and demonstrably interfered with their democratic elections, assassinations and directly military interventions, and basically making it impossible for much of the globe to engage in “self-government or self-determination”, should be able to “object” to what Russia or the US has done.
Okay. Object away. But you still have the same problems I’ve noted above–any investigation will not be impartial if America’s history is any guide, and even if you document your misnomer of “Russian interference”, then so what, anything the US does in response makes the problem worse rather than better (i.e. increased likelihood potentially catastrophic species extinguishing confrontation between another nuclear armed power–because economic sanctions and UN resolutions ain’t going to cut it when it comes to Russia, much less a union of Russia, Iran and China if America wants to play the “escalation” game).
Moreover, given how bad we’ve fucked over the rest of the world going on, say 60 years, why should any of the rest of the world engage in any sort of solidarity with us when it comes to America and Russia’s current little masters of the universe “contretemps” that for, oh 60 years, has resulted in the rest of the world paying the price of America and Russia’s little games via proxy wars, directly military interventions, propping up mass murdering dictators, and generally using the rest of the human population as “objects” of America’s “national interest”?
See that’s the real problem–when America is a nation with no moral authority left based on decades of doing anything and everything within its power to deny the very values of self-governance and self-determination to all the other people on the planet (except those that align with our “interests” precisely and/or are willing to do our bidding) then when someone starts doing that to America, you’re probably going to look around and not find too many people willing to stick their necks out for you in solidarity.
Seriously, you and all our fellow Americans have a real opportunity to do some national soul searching when the chickens come home to roost as they inevitably do, but when you write pieces like this, you are really missing the point–because it always focuses on what benefits America rather than why and how it came to pass that suddenly America is becoming the object of the very same tactics it employs against all the “less exceptional” people all over the globe.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176230/tomgram%3A_rajan_menon%2C_the_iranian_connection_in_the_age_of_trump/
For my part I could care less if Russia hacked and released true information about any politician. And unless it can be proved that Russia hacked and altered individual ballots, or the count, then I don’t see how other than using “interference” as a euphemism for “my candidate didn’t win”, you can argue as a logical matter that Russia did in fact “interfere” with America’s most recent election (again, unless you believe giving the American people true information about their politicians is “interference” which I sure as shit don’t regardless of the subjective weight any individual voter wants to give that information in casting their vote as they do with all other information available to them).
Moreover, I don’t believe the American people have much of a right to “object” to getting a dose of their own medicine when they are ultimately responsible as sovereign citizens for the actions of the elected officials re: America’s machinations re: billions of other peoples ability to engage in self-determination and self-government.
Because I’ve been alive for 51 years in this nation and I’ve never seen some demand by the American people that American politicians be held accountable legally or politically for all the fucking over and denial of rights America has facilitated all over the globe going on the last 60 + years.
What I won’t do is whine about it, particularly when their are no bigger hypocrites on the planet than the American Congress and Executive branch, and the indifferent diffident oh so exceptional American people who think they can do whatever they want, to whomever they want, all over the planet in service of “our way of life” or “our national interest”.
So how about you stop whining and do a little soul searching because that’s where the real possibility for change can come from, not an investigation of Russia’s non-interference with our election which can only serve as propaganda for someone’s or some faction’s agenda, and that agenda won’t be in service of the American people, trust me, given America’s history and the fact the American public has zero influence on American foreign policy and never has.
The perfect comment to this piece, thank you sir.
Knocked it out of the park.
You left out the part about it’s likely a foreign enterprise influenced the election; “interfered” is also not a good thing. Eh comrades?
The American experiment is a criminal enterprise, and any succour or support of this enterprise is complicity criminal in itself. The only moral alternative is its dissolution, Deconstructing the state and its power should be the goal of all its citizens as well the purging of its sociopathic elites. There is no need for North America to have a standing army. Time to raise the guillotine and begin a new reign of terror by the peoples court. The American and British elite only respect terror and will only succumb to violent revolution in which their number is decimated without mercy. The fall of Berlin to the Red Army should remind people of the wages of conquest, subjugation and state sponsored mass murder.
Excellent, though I do think citizens have more than zero influence on foreign policy and were critical to ending the Vietnam war, and stopping the expansion of war in Syria.
The word” interference” is the best they can come up with. There is no accusation of a specific crime, let alone evidence. Non-american columnists and newspapers write opinions and stories, including investigative journalism on American doings regularly. All of them want and intend some influence. The idea that Trump should feed this attack on the legitimacy of the election is silly.
Trump has already been caught committing fraud in his Trump University. Where is the prosecution? What can’t be admitted is that there is virtually no legal process for holding the very rich legally accountable.
The republicans went after the Clintons for years and the Clintons won in court but still the Republican machine posts stories and videos alleging Cocaine trafficking and selling children for sex. The Podesta emails only showed that Hillary was as 2-faced as everyone knew regarding fracking, and ignoring the crimes of the bankers. The DNC emails’ showed that the party undermined one of the candidates. The Clinton foundation money trail is enough to make any honest citizen puke their guts out. The idea that people voted for Trump because of this is unlikely. The idea that people are obligated to vote for a provably dishonest and corrupt politician because the CIA and the mainstream press think they are great turns out to be politically insane, at least as long as we have the electoral college system which turns millions of votes over to the person who was not voted for.
Another shit article by a shit !!!
The “evidence” of foreign interference is much stronger for Ukraine than it is for Russia. Isn’t it curious how we only hear about the latter; it’s almost as if columnists don’t mind Ukrainian interference because it was intended to help Hillary, and because that info wouldn’t further the New Cold War.
There Is also likely UK interference, given what we know about the latest dodgy dossier. (And the UK has been doing this sort of thing for centuries, from William Cobbett’s anti-Jeffersonian and anti-French propaganda to Roald Dahl sleeping with Claire Booth Luce and stealing speeches from Henry Wallace.) Anyone want to investigate that?
And, while the “intelligence community” is not dismissing hacking, a lot of former Intel people (Who have been right on Iraq and Libya and more…) are skeptical, to say nothing about computer security people.
I refuse to believe unless there is actual proof, submitted to the American people. And, incidentally, I want to see third parties debate, I want a crackdown on Wall Street greed, and I want an alliance against the Islamic State. If the CIA, FBI and NID think those are bad, then someone needs to defund and demolish them.
Washington’s farewell address (presumably uninterrupted by artificial sycophantic cheers), so often cited in sleight-of-hand neoliberal arguments, applies eminently more to the parasitic hordes of soulless and stateless corporate lobbyists entrenched in the Imperial City (“insidious wiles of foreign influence”) than to conveyance of petty emails by Podesta, Wasserman-Schultz, et al.
Greenwald and his compatriots have proven once again how little they understand geopolitics. The sad thing is that many young white men eat up this drivel.
Really? Trying to frame yet another of your “Russia did it” / “I hate Trump” / “Listen to your government since they are always honest” articles as offering a fresh perspective? No sell, Schwarz.
I’m only really concerned at how this has largely eclipsed what happened in Ukraine. If “little green men” start showing up in Estonia like they did in Ukraine, I’d hope the president responds more seriously than tweeting something like “Dems still blaming Russia for election, spreading ‘fake news’ about ‘little green men’ in Estonia. Move on! Sad!” “The only aliens we have to worry about are the millions that illegally voted for crooked hillary”
“Nothing should be less controversial than this. Whatever a nation’s political disagreements, in any functioning democracy there’s just one position on this issue: Only citizens can participate in deciding who governs it.”
Am I reading this right?
the strong conclusions in the the Office of the Director of National Intelligence’s report.
Well, maybe not that strong…?
“We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump’s
election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her
unfavorably to him. All three agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and FBI have high confidence
in this judgment; NSA has moderate confidence.”
Now, on page 23 of the document:
High Confidence “does not imply that the assessment is a fact or a certainty; such judgments might be wrong.”
Moderate Confidence implies that the information is not of “sufficient quality or corroborated sufficiently to warrant a higher level of confidence”
And notice what the accusation is ONLY: that Putin and his government “aspired to help President-elect Trump’s
election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him”.
It’s not like sending weapons to the anti-Assad terrorists in Syria or like bombing Libya and having its head of state sodomized with a bayonet, or like having Victoria Nuland decide who was going to be Ukraine’s next prime minister. Or is it?
By the way, here’s the actual report, most of it dedicated to showering Russia’s excellent RT channel with well-deserved praise – probably not intended.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3254229-ICA-2017-01.html#document/p1
Just a follow-up. RT was mentioned 124 times in the report. Putin 31 times. “Breaking the Set” was off the air before Hillary Clinton declared her candidacy. Abby Martin, the host, condemned Russian intervention in the Ukraine. Earlier, we found Hillary Clinton spent 53% of her time writing “personal” emails. Now we find our “Intelligence” agencies are TV nuts who love Larry King, Jesse Ventura, Lee Camp, and Ed Schultz.
Thank you for posting the link. Your assessment is absolutely right about the promotion of RT. It is rising in popularity, as some of the American people are sick and tired of the cable channels CNN, Faux, and MSNBC, to say little of the Nets.
Their (RT’s) skirting of the Foreign Agents Reg Act probably wasn’t as bad as what Faux and Mayor Rudolph Giuliani did to get Fair/Balanced on the air. That is for you all to decide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayoralty_of_Rudy_Giuliani#Fox_News_conflict_of_interest
While searching for that – (tame as hell), I ran across this article, which is a great diversion: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-roger-ailes-built-the-fox-news-fear-factory-20110525?print=true
Saturday”s On Contact had Abby Martin and somebody from Salon (Ben?) discussing the report.
This report did not mention Thom Hartmann, Mike Papantonio, Ed Schultz, (Larry King), and Christopher Hedges, but assiduously called them aligned against mainstream television, which many of us assail here.
As far as blaming Russia – this line stood out: “our US-led liberal democratic order, the promotion of which” is a threat to Putin? Except for the last seven pages, this was innuendo and supposition, full of could, would, might, etc. It is the US-led neoliberal undemocratic order that we are protesting by turning away from those that do not inform us.
I don’t understand why progressives who allegedly believe in free speech think that the public release of private but _true_ information that might have influenced voters is a major threat to our democracy. So it was OK for Daniel Ellsberg to illegally release the Pentagon Papers only because he was an American citizen? If a Brit or a Russian had released them it would have been a threat? Assange was not an American citizen, so his release of the Manning materials was an Australian attack on our democract? I don’t get it. We live in a global public sphere; what matters is whether the info is true and relevant not its progeny. Otherwise you are indeed just contributing to a new Cold War
The idea that the lack of pushback from the ‘intelligence’ community (there being plenty from the intelligent community) indicates truthfulness of the allegations relies on the notion that the allegations started from the White House, rather than the spies themselves.
But, odds are that the theory came from the spies (where careers were built on pointing the finger at Russia for every problem (and ‘problem’) first, and were seized upon by Obama to explain away the embarrassment of the Trump win over the Obama championed Hillary.
If you take it as likely that the internal social pressures and career advancement among the spies is to demonize Russia, the absence of leaks contradicting that narrative is not significant.
Yes Obama & Company should have bark on this one, but Hillary was a sure bet so silence ruled. Never enlighten We the people unless it is absolutely required, keep them ignorant and surveil.
Yes we need a full investigation of this to included the persons and intelligence agencies when any two can give a difference spin. Why do we need so many intelligence agencies, some with power to identify and target and pull the trigger under one roof and who leaked the report. Intelligence is mostly best guess not gospel.
Many hands were grabbing for the scales in this election from foreign governments to dark corporate money to righteous and unrighteous organizations . This in the information and money equals speech era is unavoidable. We the people being informed of whos hand or finger is tipping the scale is the only defense. A broad investigation is way over due. Trump set it in motion hope someone follows through to enlighten US fully.
The GOP didn’t seem concerned about foreign interference with American policy when they invited Netanyahu the prime minister of Israel to give a speech in the US Senate (where US senators are supposed to hold debate on US issues) and gave him a platform to criticized a sitting US President who opposed some Israeli policies.
The idea our own senators would condone and Approve a foreign head of state giving a speech critical of our own head of state in our own Senate was as loathsome an act as I can recall by alleged ‘patriotic americans’.
Disagreeing with a president is what freedom is all about, but inviting foreign leaders to use our own halls to espouse and political opposition of one party in a different nation to sway US policy is disgraceful and would be treasonous in any less democratic country.
It was both parties kissing the ring in an illuminating act. Jewish politics and money dominate the American government.
Russia must be the great enemy now because Putin put a stop to the CIA-led slaughter in Syria.
The poor Israelis – they’d had the place all picked-out for the Palestinians …
What if? Donald Trump’s agenda.. is to divide up the world between Russia and the U.S.? This could be his biggest “deal”.
I can’t agree with this article’s conclusions. Those who stole and gave the emails to Wikileaks has not been proven with any publicly available information. The “Report” used such ridiculous evidence as the supposed “fact” that high level Russians were happy that Trump won! Come on now I was also happy that Trump won so what does THAT prove? Let’s just say for arguments sake that Russia WAS responsible for the emails being passed along. They emails were undeniably true copies so what Russia ‘did’ was simply to support a candidate they liked as the best of the two choices. One being a war mongering and self serving nation builder/NeoCon and the other being a guy says he wants to pull in our horns and serve our Nation’s people at home. I see no problem with that. The fact that Trump and others on his team said they believed the Russian story that was being pushed so hard says they wanted to get past it and not let it drag them into the mud. Later policy changes will show what they actually believe.
You’ve also called for an investigation into how Saudi Arabia has been influencing our foreign policy through it’s massive donations to the Clinton Foundation as well, right? Unlike the “Russia hacking” there we can at least see massive transfers of cash directly to an American Presidential candidate.
All this Russia bashing is inane twaddle. The focus should be on securing the electoral process from insidious influence both foreign and domestic and not just from the Russians. Anyway, the leak most likely came from Seth Rich not Russia.
And that leak was “plugged.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich
The Intercept is a leader in fake news.
Your unfounded belief that Russia is behind wikileaks would have had no effect on the election even if true. Which it isn’t
Intellectually, you’re absolutely correct, as was Washington – in theory.
The problem is that both individuals did not take into account that POWER and practice TRUMP, the intellectual theory.
This level of clarity is absolutely blinding to eyes accustomed to the usual pablum.A truly excellent piece.
Dear US intelligence industry and Dem bosses,
Welcome to the 21st century. Please be aware that most electronic forms of communication are potentially subject to interception and publication.
You’ve been warned.
Yours,
The Surveilled Masses
……..and by telling them this, they will not adjust, adapt and change their methodologies?
what?
The hacking of the DNC, really who cares?
1. Amerika has been shown to be hacking everyone, get over it.
2. If Russia had hacked the DNC and Podesta you should be thanking Putin for showing the corruption.
What, more news on somehow Russia has dirt on Politicians, you mean like MI6, NSA, Israel, AIPAC, Germany…….. They have dirt on everyone.
This is nearly as funny as a UK MP suggesting Russia looks for dirt on MP’s. Well thats the way the world works. Crooks the lot of em….
“This is nearly as funny as a UK MP suggesting Russia looks for dirt on MP’s. ”
Especially funny after Israel was just caught with its pants around its ankles regarding UK MPs.
Who is running the press in this country anyway?