CIA director nominee Mike Pompeo — whose confirmation vote in the Senate is set for Monday — has said he is open to changing the rules governing the interrogation of detainees, which could mean re-authorizing the use of the torture technique called waterboarding.
The vote is shaping up as a test for Senate Democrats, who will have to choose between letting Donald Trump fill a key national-security post, on the one hand, and supporting basic human rights on the other.
Pompeo’s admission came in a written response to inquiries from the Senate Intelligence Committee. Asked if he would refrain from taking steps that would reintroduce waterboarding or other similar techniques, he replied that he would “consult with experts at the agency and at other organizations in the U.S. government” on whether the Army Field Manual — which currently establishes the legal limits of interrogation — should be changed. In other words, he’ll follow the law, but he’s open to changing it:
The nominee has in the past called CIA staff who engaged in waterboarding “patriots.”
Pompeo’s confirmation was originally going to be voted on Friday, but a small group of Democratic senators, led by Oregon’s Ron Wyden, objected. “No CIA director in history has ever been confirmed on Inauguration Day. The importance of the position of CIA director, especially in these dangerous times, demands that the nomination be thoroughly vetted, questioned and debated,” they said in a statement.
One senator has already pledged to oppose Pompeo’s confirmation. “At a time of massive attacks on privacy, I will strongly oppose Congressman Pompeo as CIA director,” Bernie Sanders announced on Friday.
Top photo: Pompeo at his confirmation hearing in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 12
To anyone peeking in: The Huffington Post covered a story about an activist, Gavin Seim, pulling an unmarked car over (unmarked cars are illegal in his state) and Mr. Seim as also documented how the DHS uses ‘rats’ as thugs to intimidate free speech advocates, and also, slowly and secretly destroy dissent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/19/gavin-seim-pulls-over-cop-unmarked-car_n_6012328.html
It’s worth a look, and it validates a portion of the ‘organized stalking’ narrative.
Stan-
Surveillance role players are indeed a large part of these localized terror campaigns, aka ‘community policing’ schemes which recruit kids (which reminds me that the caves of Mid-western city are used by the local police to recruit citizen corps members as a preamble to later, more illegal operations.)
Stan-you would come across as ‘sorta’ credible’ if you would stop saying zerzetsung all the time. In adopting the language they have provided you, and that you willingly provide to others, you become a parrot for their cause.
But you are correct about the surveillance role payers- the internet is full of their recruitment schemes, and online gaming communities serve as ideal cover.
Interestingly, these same recruitment methods also provide these deviates with access to our children, which many journalists fail to document.
I see the headline ‘Pompeo depicted war on terror as Islamic battle against Christianity’. Pompeo is partly correct, both religions demand adherents convert others, which is a sure prescription for endless world war, brought to us by religious fanatics like Pompeo, who seek ultimate power based on the dictatorship of non-existent supernatural beings. Nations exist whose governments are religious based, look to them what Pompeo seeks, power dictated by those who claim the closest relationships to their non-existent gods, arbitrary and ignorant. There is no better description of evil and (the non-existent supernatural being Satan) than those who use their gods to gain power, and seek dominion over our freedoms.
The Stasi’s soc-pup organizations, with TI’s Mona being one representative, insist this does not happen .
Here is photographic evidence of zersetzung style stalking and harassment in Central
Park.
Further evidence of this criminal industry’s existence is found in zerzetsung surveillance role playing want ads. Here is one:
Need CLEARED Surveillance Role Players with Team Surveillance and Counter Surveillance Experience ASAP
Here is another classified, seeking professional stalkers from the US’ vast cesspool of patriots.
EXPERIENCED SURVEILLANCE / HUMINT ROLE PLAYERS WANTED
Even fact averse, MAGA hat adorning folks find Wikileaks more credible than Stasi collaborators Mona and Celeste Guapi. These two enjoy as much credibiilty as the Un-Intelligence Community that hired them.
@Celeste Guapi -> Si1ver1ockJanuary 24 2017, 9:04 a.m. BRST:
Interesting Psychographics. Where do you get those limited-hangout stats?
Just a test of the emergency comment interception program, aka “Chrissy”
How many Senate committees is Bernie Sanders on? He’s already publicly highlighted the preternatural ignorance of Betsy DeVos and chastised Tom Price. Is the reason he slouches in his senatorial chair so much explained by the fact that he never leaves it because he is in some sort of permanent “in session” purgatory?
Seth Rich
Building 7
somebody knows something.
maybe you just have a hint of information – or a suspicion
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/736223/9-11-tower-Building-7-collapse-fire-conspiracy
theintercept.com/leak.
CIA Pandora Project / Moscow Signal.
1953 – 1983 Russia microwaved the u.s. embassy in Moscow. The CIA became aware of this in 1962 but said nothing 1976 wanting to study effects, Pandora Project.
The staff was told nothing (guinea pigs) until 1976.
“Governments will use whatever technology is available to combat their primary enemy – their own population”
Noam Chomsky
Our Leader is resigning corporate titles, but there’s still the question of divesting ownership in whatever form.
By the way, does he still have an interest in World Wrestling Entertainment? I don’t know if he was an executive, but he certainly did perform. Do not eat or drink at your computer when you read this story.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/09/politics/trump-world-wrestling/index.html
Whoops. Meant to post this on another thread. We really need an edit function here, TI.
I guess now that the left is out of power they oppose war and torture again.
There’s no such thing as ‘the left’. The Neoliberal, Zionist ‘Left’ saw no great problem with war and torture. But many others on the left are opposed to both, now as ever.
QED, by this site, e.g.
Gert-
And what is your proposal to get those ziobots out of the influential circles-without being labeled “an anti-semite!!!”?
I mean- that word worked so well for so long as that element of fasci-nazi-ism greased and blackmailed, and ‘disrupted’ it’s way into the party.
Hmmm. I am trying to think if I know any other tribal leaders who are 1) world-grade billionaires, and 2) willing to finance American politics and the propaganda of anti-war, anti-torture, anti-something, pro-human rights blahblahbah, for a couple decades until they (and ‘we the people,’ of course…) seize total power.
Nope. There are none. Big SOL.
*sigh*
WW3
And this is the sort of discussion (and ideas) that the Democratic party should be embracing, rhetorically and in practice, but it never does. And they will either change and start doing so (don’t think will happen), or they won’t in which case they will lose all legitimacy as the party of the working class.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/01/the-party-we-need/
And a prime example of the Democratic party’s bind is here:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/01/betsy-devos-senate-hearing-trump-education-secretary/
Forget that DeVos is ignorant and incompetent for what she is being asked to do, the important fact is she is a christian supremacist, and as such, those who will put her into office don’t care she is ignorant and incompetent for what she’s being asked to do. Her only goal is to stuff the dictatorship of non-existent supernatural beings into our children, and she will be highly competent in accomplishing that. I am accused of being a militant atheist, I haven’t been but I now see atheism is a method of fighting back, to resist the infection being imposed on us by the politicians who are corrupted by the dictatorship of non-existent supernatural beings. Do what the freaks can’t fight, learn that the gods they want to dominate us don’t exist, never have never will, and make them regret trying to impose their domination over us.
Media reporting on facts is getting worse, not better – see for example the collection of competing claims on whether the Trump team plans major restucturing for the CIA by Googling [ cia restructure ]. Here’s an example:
Did that lead to the CIA bureaucracy leaking the Trump-Russia dossier from the MI6 operative to the press? Since then the Trump spokesperson has denied the reports, not that he’s very credible.
The larger problem is this: The CIA and other government intelligence agencies enjoy secret black budgets, part of the government effort to keep any waste and fraud and criminality and stupidity hidden from the American public (for example, the program in Syria that ended up arming ISIS, or the idiotic Iranian nuclear sabotage program exposed by James Risen, for which the CIA’s Jeffrey Stirling was sent to jail for allegedly exposing, or the torture program, and on and on.)
Efforts to increase transparency failed under Obama, who refused to support such a move:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/02/02/black-budget-requests-remain-secret
For example, during the Bush years, the CIA probably had a large budget devoted to operating “black site” torture centers in Poland, Thailand, Diego Garcia, Morocco, Djibouti, Romania, Lithuania, Bosnia and Afghanistan and Iraq. They may still be open and operating, for all we know, despite Obama’s claims about having rolled back the torture program – just use foreign contractors, and hand prisoners over to them. But it would have to be paid for, and it would be in the budget, and so, budgets must remain hidden. The same goes for whatever accidental or deliberate support programs for ISIS and Al Qaeda were being run by the CIA in Syria (or, more likely, in Jordan and Turkey).
P.S. Another example of crappy media reporting on related matters is the recent revelation that a British submarine accidentally launched an (unarmed) Trident nuclear ballistic missile towards the U.S. near Florida back in June; not a single American news outlet has asked the U.S. government if they knew about it or why the public wasn’t informed of it. Oops.
People who kidnap torture and murder need to get paid. Especially the ones who murder presidents of countries who oppose kidnapping torture and murder. But without a thieving high price secret budget and payment scheme, the CIA has to resort to running drugs in the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGW033-82c
And if the drug running operations get slowed down because of a wall, then the CIA has to resort to subcontracting murders out to local talent who largely consist of their own drug buying and using clientelle who botch the job as they did when they murdered Seth Rich.
Quote from the above: a “key national-security post.” The CIA is actually an offensive agency designed to subvert other countries, and sometimes even the U.S. itself.
Not having a CIA director might be a good thing!
@Jamie
You’re quite ignorant of this site and it’s writers. Glenn Greenwald is hardly the only writer here who demands evidence for CIA claims about Russia, or who heavily slammed Obama over drone killings. Indeed, the above author, Zaid Jilani, has made his position on drones more than clear.
The CIA has never been, and almost certainly never will be, treated with anything but skepticism and suspicion at this site — and that will include during the Trump Administration. Certainly the vast, vast majority of writers have always been properly skeptical, excepting only on the rare occasion when a statement made against interest comes along (and is therefore more credible).
The School of Americas run by the CIA taught the Secret Police of the South American countries how to torture effectively, that was the role of this “School”, to train torturers and make them the best. Pinochet in Chile, Videla in Argentina, Brazil, Central America, etc… There is nothing new under Trump’s presidency on having a CIA Director who supports torture. Absolutely nothing new, only a blind or an ignorant can’t see that.
Before you lecture people about these matters, you should at least get your basic facts straight. SOA (name now changed to try to dodge shameful rep) is now and always has been run by the Defense Department, not the CIA.
A deepening pattern at TI is that the comments section has become much more instructive than the article itself. Once again, I ask someone among the readership (not the TI staff) with expertise and judgment to severely cull and post the best comments and threads somewhere on a weekly basis.
I’m getting to know whose comments to scroll over and whose to read twice, but I don’t have the time to scroll through all the comments under all the articles. Maybe there’s an easily programmable way of automatically slotting to an external site the texts of the handful of serious commenters here (including everything by Il Duce, of course). Simple citations could always direct readers back to the original article if they wanted more. Yes, it’s spoon feeding, but just stepping over the countless trolls and the banal-ists is wearing me down. So spoil me, and perhaps many others, with the crème de la crème.
OH, PLEASE! That’s all we need…another Salon.com without ads.
Salon used to be a lot more entertaining because of its comments section, but that was back when Glenn Greenwald was there. Now, of course, it has more pop-ups and jerky visuals than a first-person shooter game.
And a very active censor/moderator, who is capricious as hell. It had one of the best comment sections ever until a couple of years ago. During the election cycle I tried to paste a childish Amanda Marcotte tweet, and it was refused, whilst other tweets were allowed.
Given the current climate in our government this might be a good investment for those of you looking to make a buck or two.
https://patriot1tech.com/solutions/nforce-data-sheet/
Just think about all the things that this could be programmed to do. You could be Tried by the shape of your keys in your pocket, or the glasses that you wear in combination with your watch shape.
SPAM
You’ll find hope NOWHERE for an attack like that, least of all psychiatrists. (who are in fact often collaborators) haven’t you ever heard of MK – ULTRA? And btw..your elegant, fay, meaningless posts in this forum won’t ever change anything. Sorry cupcake, it takes a firm wrist to take on the intelligence agencies…
No more steroids for you!
sorry, Butch, but one question: speaking of fay-why do women who lift weights hate their femininity so much?
And: If you don’t get it by now, FUCK the intel community- they are busted, everywhere but the courtrooms of “we the people” -and “we” are working on that as I click this post- your’s cannot continue to obfuscate speech rights and thereby manipulate whole populations via the stealing of a blog comment.
Virginia state police and Newport News police use torture everyday. They are implanting innocent citizens with biochips and torturing them even unto death. Check out CBS news in Richmond’s interview with the medical examiners office. Governor McAuliff and Mark Herring have approved the murder of thousands of innocent citizens. The medical examiners office has been instructed to cover up their murders and to sell their brains and organs for profit without the permission or knowledge of the victims family. Virginia is the most corrupt state in the nation. law enforcement rape and sodomize the victims before murdering them. It is now reported that judges are in on it too like W. Taylor in Hampton.
Examples?
Stop calling it waterboarding. It sounds like maybe they are out surfing or something.
Call it water torture.
Calling torturers patriots is an insult to the real patriots.
Instigating wars and getting the whole of the USA worked-up in the name of patriotism….these Dollar-hungry A-holes don’t give a sh*t about once patriotism. Whatever works for their “cause” will be set to work.
If we want to get rid of these lunatics we need more politicians with the stature and stamina of Bernie Sanders to stand-up and team-up with him.
Make Democracy Great Again
Usa_naziland; always looking to make things legal within its own sphere. Totally against international laws & the geneva convention. Frankly the U.N. should boot america out of its door until its war criminal soldiers & armies have signed up to that policy. I bet they think twice about applying sanctions on other countries if usa_naziland got a taste of its own medicine.
The largest export business in the US is war and implements of war while the largest expense of the US is war and war materials. Just as star wars helped drive the economy of the USSR into the dirt, the self inflicted paranoid delusion of Russia being the enemy will drive the US into complete and total BANKRUPTCY as the bridges and roads and cities crumble while the thieves of wallstreet raise prices to force borrowing to print money to issue loans to be repaid entirely with interest as Americans continue to lose ownership and return on productivty.
Nice of US to provide israel with $38,000,000,000.00
thirty eight billion dollars and 00 cents
certainly not the kind of money America needs.
suckers.
The door to “torture” was closed…to “enhanced interrogation techniques”, no.
Right.
A Turt is Turt…..
Imagine we will be torturing Russians ! Anybody against that ?
Ahhh…an old Nazi sympathizer speaks.
Says who ?
To every right wing gonad who has emigrated from Europe “fleeing the communist yoke”, I’ve asked, “What side was your family on in WW2″? They’ve never answered.
WW2 ended in 1945…maybe they couldn’t hear you or you are just lying.
Oh, yes…that was SO last century…
Oh…so was the USSR…
Imagine you were living in Ukraine, Pete Needham.
Wut?
Oh boy. Mr. Dark Act himself now possibly the head of the CIA.
Doug Salzman, et al-
There are other lawsuits that focus on the issue of targeted harassment, and stalking, and some that mention ‘group stalking’ by name.
From Mike Masnick’s Techdirt.com (which BTW, is facing a SLAPP type suit because he called out the guy who claims he invented email)
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131210/07555625519/lawsuit-claims-accidental-google-search-led-to-years-government-investigation-harrassment.shtml
Organized stalking is a very real thing, and it happens especially in the security, military, police and spy-tech industries. Note especially that many of the shooters that make the news are security clearanced, military, or police affiliated.
The issue is starting to make it into the public eye as one where typical abuses of power within the insular LE community are being seen for the first time as these same target civilians who challenge their narrative lockup; and organized stalking gives us a glimpse behind the thin blue line, and it’s abuses of it’s own, and others.
And like most SDS (Student for a Democratic Society) or NAACP chapters back in the day its safe to say that most gangstalking support groups might well be similarly infiltrated or even formed to serve the purposes of LEOs if only to encourage (at bare minimum) adherents believe there’s an FBI officer or adversary around every corner.
Or the shits so real they’re using everything in the JTRIG arsenal to provide you misleading tube videos, manipulate news feeds, manipulate entertainemnt feeds, manipulate online polls, submit false widely read testimonials, online trolls to bring or heap discredit upon discussion board commentors who believe or do not believe in certain “flavors” of “targeted individuals”, or destroy the personal and/or business relationships of targeted individuals, or limit the economic opportunities of targeted individuals and so on. Oh – and this is important – with and/or without Electromagenetic Weapons or DEWs (which do ALSO exist and are only getting smaller and more powerful – Read Defense Pubs on existing and proposed handheld LDAPS MicroWave FullLightSpectrum crowd control deveices etc ). Even without TIs providing us the effing Users Manuals for the DEWs they regularly reference the amount of energy and vitriol placed into the YES or NO of the “gangstalking” debate across multiple online communities is (to my mind anyway) in and of itself a false flag or a red flag of one kind or another.
Christian-
“most gangstalking support groups might well be similarly infiltrated or even formed to serve the purposes of LEOs”
Spot on. You’re talking about the LEIU’s and OSID and the OSI informers and the FFCHS- all of whom are now outed- mostly retired investigators using low-socio-economic status people’s lives to wage constant interrogations under the pretext of “yeah, but what if we could solve that homicide from 1967!?”
And sadly, many of them do use mind control, and sublimation, and interrogation techniques to the effects of great harm.
Yes- there are many communities affected, but one I am especially aware of is this: the intersection of development in gentrified neighborhoods, and the co-occurence of mentally ill people in low income housing who report being “targeted.”
In this way, we have perfect victims, and perfect crimes- the victims are crazy already, and the perpetrators working under cover get paid dividends when the neighborhood is fully overtaken by the “good guys” who increase property values.
My biggest concern is that when people like Mona- who have a high degree of respectability- fail to acknowledge that this is every bit as real and more than it was in the peace and love era- and far better financed. And when you add state power to it, beyond nowhere to hide, these take on the fight or flight symptom, and for those so-bullied, it can also induce strange reactions- those cases are documented a bit.
Smart victims keep discussion of DEW’s out of it, because that is too hard to prove- and none of those who claim it are willing to even buy a $500 RF meter to either prove or disprove it with evidence. I personally doubt most of that information, but find merit in the vindication of part of the ‘electronics’ narrative: the jammed cell phones, and the internet shenanigans that disrupt activists.
I linked a case below from Techdirt.com where a security contractor named Jeffrey Kantor attempted to sue, and he documented a lot of what it is– the problem is that it is very hard to prove-an anyone who attempts it can ONLY sound crazy to the “average and the reasonable person.”
But we all are aware of what was doe to Karen Silkwood; and to Erin Brockovich as well- but the problem is the adoption of the word “gang stalking” which, contrary to some speculation- has it”s most likely origins in the dialogues of the early 1990’s, when the drug war was in full swing, and actual gangs were ‘targeted’ under the broken windows scheme.
This led to a positive result- gangs were pushed back, and jailed and so on; and neighborhoods they ran became gentrified. But the downside is that the means and methods then were used to exploit everything from political grievances to petty crimes- but on a drug war budget!
That deserves a second look. And again, in my example above, it is the mentally ill, the ‘illegal’ workers, and the old drunk woman on social security who became the enemies of the state.- and the real estate industry as well.
. . . none of those who claim it are willing to even buy a $500 RF meter to either prove or disprove it with evidence.
Who ya gonna call?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlXBg2d2Nnc
Exactly. Busting ghosts is one thing; documenting the world in scientific terms is another.
Below is a version of a classified Army PsyOps manual that has been previously published by the Federation of American Scientists- to guide this view that the organized stalking phenomenon is a localized psychological operation.
https://publicintelligence.net/restricted-u-s-army-psyops-manual/
And why so many fail to simply buy a video camera is interesting ….
In the vast troves of info/disinfo online, about 20% of it is real victims of abusive conduct, at the state, local, or federal ;or other organizational, institutional conduct, hidden under post-Patriot Act quasi-judicial investigation, or cover of authority; and a huge number of commenters on blogs are actually live-journaling systemic abuse that has affected their state of mental health (perhaps 25-50%).
There are good films and photos across the web, that any jury, or reasonable person would find interesting and real- that indicate stalking is occurring; and frequently, license plates are documented(although these blogs disappear almost as fast as they appear, and the trend of documenting plates has diminished since around 2005-08).
Then, there are the addict-paranoids-about 25%, and there are the “personality disorders, undefined” about 30-40%, and the actual paid or affiliated propaganda agents about another 20-30%. And of these, above, about 15% appear to be actual informants, or people targeted to be informants.
Perhaps 5% of these cases are classic Karen Silkwood/ NSA whistle blower/Serpico experiences where the writers have documented actual harassment of a horrifying nature.
Dis/mis-information and black propaganda ( as defined in the U.S. Army, CIA, and other manuals of propaganda) appears in nearly 100% of all TI blogs, but when you weed it out (“DEW’s, itch machines, face orbs, ….” ) it is clear that, much like the “Black Panther” coloring book of the 1960’s it is a real thing:
http://www.vice.com/read/coloring-the-black-panthers
About 50% or better of the blogs are verifiable information, often with name addresses and photo’s that can be at least taken as personal descriptions of a world of normal expectations under the law cast against a state/church/real estate developer/agency/ private security/etc nightmare of color of law conduct.
It also cannot be dismissed that there is a very real issue of either homelessness, or entities threatening TI’s to ‘make you homeless,’ and this theme co-occurs on around 35-50% % of all blogs.
Any cursory glance at propaganda techniques and tactics reveals that the information I post above can be verified and correlated with techniques of well known psyops, influence, and propaganda techniques:
https://publicintelligence.net/restricted-u-s-army-psyops-manual/
https://www.freewebs.com/moeial/CIA's%20Psychological%20Operations%20in%20Guerrilla%20Warefare.pdf
https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-301.pdf
Here’s a snippet of the manuals-note that the “TI” is actually a “TA”:
2-67. Psychographics include the following:
• Fears: What does the TA fear?
• Hates: What does the TA hate?
• Anger: What angers the TA?
• Loves: What does the TA love?
• Shame or embarrassment: What does the TA consider shameful or embarrassing?
• What is the TA dissatisfied with? (What are its gripes?)
• What are the cultural norms? (How is the TA expected to act?)
• What does the TA value? (What is important to the TA?)
• What are the frustrations? (What does the TA want that it cannot get?)
There’s not an Agency out there…Agency Pricks are the perpetrators.
Think about organized labor’s hero, Joe Hill for a minute:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/27/us/27hill.html
So, I’m gonna go with both door A and door B-Both “infiltration,” AND “Or the shits so real.”
When LEO’s work in the dark, with no accountability, and with impunity, anything can and does happen. Think Mark Clark, Fred Hampton, and even John Lennon.
Or Joe Hill for that matter- people forget this unconstitutional brutality is a very old thing that employs every dialectic twist and turn until they get whoever it is they want on a rope.
I’m a big Joe Hill fan, despite the outcome.
This is actually more informative than what is on The Intercept today.
Maybe you could start a little news site aggregator.
S1lver1ock-
I have many ways that I contribute to the news cycle, but aggregating ain’t one.
The best place to start to understand the “phenomenon” of organized gang stalking is with science- and the science of influence.
The Federation of American Scientists published a restricted US Army Psychological Operations manual around 2005(?) and it documents much of what we see and then, hear out loud in the org-stalk community about info/disinfo/misinfo/ and black propaganda:
https://publicintelligence.net/restricted-u-s-army-psyops-manual/
The CIA has it’s several versions of it’s own, and so on:
https://www.freewebs.com/moeial/CIA's%20Psychological%20Operations%20in%20Guerrilla%20Warefare.pdf
A key feature of the legitimate cases of organized stalking involve persons who could be, are, or are suspected to be “influencers” of communities/courts/society at large.
Organized gang stalking is real and it is NOT a phenomenon, and it isn’t new. Of those who write about it, some 50% are clearly just military and OSID mind control, influence ops, and psyops talking to each other, cross talking, and often, illegally or unethically ‘investigating’ or bullying people online using psychological interrogation techniques.
I call this “webterrogation.” Twitter and Farcebook is full of these types(and they’re right here in this thread too.)
The rest of them range from private contractors, state, federal, and local LEO’s, compromised targeted suspects, and less-than-ethical/legal investigations using psyops tactics combined with bullying and community policing of:
activists, anti-war protesters; dissenters, whistle-blowers, common criminals, and especially-especially those targeted to become informants; and there are the Serpico’s and Karen Silkwood’s (the cop who the NYPD locked in a nut house after he refused to do stop and frisks is one example, though he did not blog about it.)
And I have been compiling a rough set of statistics on how it breaks down, but simply, some 5-15% are actual, real people trying to document a horrible thing that is happening to them, and of those, most could be said to exhibit symptoms of what you might expect ranging from stress to PTSD; and in describing it, some even sound schizophrenic/depressed/ etc when they ‘parrot’ some of the dialogue they are reading in the disinfo blogs.
But yeah–science is the key; and camera’s and especially body cameras have changed the way “targets” are viewed online, and in the courts when they try to tell otherwise difficult stories where their mental health is made into an issue rather than modern LE brutality and hidden, often illegal methods.
And of these illegal, unknown, and unethical methods, the one that stands out is this: many of these off-the-records domestic operations are actually soldiers and airmen who have come home and have time on their hands; or who are ‘auditioning’ for a further role in the LE community.
Meantime- I just had a huge post ‘disappear’ into the ether as I tried to reply here. Seems the Intercept servers might have a MOS/MIM for Tor users (Tor is so busted and useless when MIM and MOS are used. Then there are the I/O, teardrop, and timing attacks- it’s almost an unusable browser these days.)
This limited-hangout game is admitting organized stalking is “a very real thing”, but targets of this type of crime do not exist. Your fellow collaborator Mona has a copy of the same script.
I do hope both of you get caught and pay commensurate fees.
Funny how the Intercept, aside from Glenn, embraces the CIA when their evidence free Russia/Trump hack scare is leaked anonymously, yet now the Trump-lead CIA necessarily has to be made the villain again by Intercept propagandists.
Of course torture is absurd, but I never understand feel-good liberals that were upset at Bush for capturing terrorists and waterboarding them, yet adored Obama who just droned [cooked] them.
I’d rather be water-boarded than droned.
“I’m really good at killing people.”
– Dear Leader, Obama on Terror Tuesdays
It does seem a convenient sleight of mind their (the Intercept aside from Glenn) selective embrace of evidence free CIA conjecture does it not?
As does their selective diminishment and excoriation of Mannings muse and the DNCs guardian angel Julian (Effing) Assange.
Ahh, a pair of guys who think one side is purely good, another side purely bad. Fer us or against us type ofguys. Reminder…how’d that WMDS /Iraq War thingy come out?
Obama’s response to military tribunals and torture at Guantanamo was two-fold – a coverup protecting CIA torturers from prosecution, and a switch from rendition to extrajudicial assassination of terrorism suspects, which conveniently avoids the need for trials, an added benefit. Can’t have pyschologically deranged torture victims put in front of the cameras, after all – that’s not good propaganda.
So the rational viewpoint is to simply go back to the pre-9/11 approach to terrorism suspects, i.e. prosecution in a federal court under standard legal rules, as was the case for the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing:
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/16/nation/la-na-yousef-solitary-20130217
Is the statement “Making Senate Vote a Test of Principles” almost oxymoronic? It is certainly paradoxical.
And I’d wish Prof. Reich would quit poaching my material. : )
But seriously, he’s another economist and former long-time Clinton contemporary and appointee.
He understands why Clintonian centrism (and its political and economic worldview and tactics) has to go or the Democratic party is dead and/or will be replaced.
http://www.salon.com/2017/01/22/robert-reich-7-hard-truths-democrats-must-acknowledge-if-they-want-a-better-future_partner/
I prefer to think of it as, “Rob wrote this to ease our burden of explanation and to give us an easy link to cite when we’re too tired to type any more.”
It is simply remarkable how clearly he understands and can describe the reality facing the moribund Democrats. I can never support a politician, like Bernie, whose foreign policy is so closely aligned with the liberal interventionism of the post-WWII period, but the choice Reich posits is clearly apposite: in these times, we’re either going to get more (much more) authoritarian populism or we need a massive move on the “left” to real, progressive populism.
So far, the Dims, exemplified by Minority Leader Schumer, show no signs of getting it.
No. Sadly, so are many Salonistas, or as one put it correctly:
Long, hard slog ahead…
The Deep State needs the Democrats to be a theatrical opposition to the GOP, an opposition in name only that helps further the corrupt goals of corporatism, militarism and imperialism along with increased and more invasive surveillance.
If the Democrats venture beyond wedge-issues which polarize society into convenient division between shallow liberalism and shallow conservatism, the charade may falter and the endemic corruption and inequality of U.S. society may actually be challenged. But as the Deep State controls both Parties at their highest levels and prevents third parties from being effective at all, there is little hope for progressive (or even libertarian) movements gaining any traction in the current paradigm.
The game is rigged. Only a united society challenging the entire establishment as a whole could change this, and not only does it seem that the Powers That Be have made sure this is impossible, it’s also the case that deliberate media influences ensure that few politically-engaged individuals ever get interested in escaping their self-limiting identities as either leftists or right-wingers to unite the populace as necessary.
Yeah, but I know where the buck stops. *a kingly portion, in a blind trust run by Trump’s children, no doubt.
Leaders of the Deep State, in every age, their subjects upon the rack, have hindered their peoples from attaining the shores of everlasting salvation, inasmuch as they held the reins of authority in their mighty grasp. Some, for the lust of leadership, others through want of knowledge and understanding, have been the cause of … enhanced interrogations.
Thanks for this post. While I appreciate the articles and incisive comments at the Intercept it’s even more true that I’m left thinking that there’s no way out of the mess we’re in. Alternative facts are being flung so fast and furious at citizens, from both sides and on so many issues, that I don’t see how the citizens of our country can come together- let alone discern what’s true or how to fend off the situation we’re in. Just today I was talking with an educated, intelligent friend of mine and she has no desire to engage energy toward getting accurate information, let alone spend time organizing for change. She’s busy working two jobs and also has some magical attitude that because she lives in a progressive city and fairly progressive state, then she’ll somehow be spared from negative effects coming down the pike. If her attitude of non-engagement is representative of our general population (and I fear it is) then we are doomed.
Gratitude for the lively discussion.
the media are pushing really really hard on the BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID, OF RUSSIA thing. It is comical. PBS is sucking up to NATO like a needy child. Foreign policy freaks are populating the talk shows as if everything is fine in America, no worries, we need a bigger military.
WHAT A CON JOB.
Reich’s key points
The Democratic Party is on life support.
We are now in a populist era.
The economy is not working for most Americans.
The party’s moneyed establishment are part of the problem.
It’s not enough for Democrats to be “against Trump” and defend the status quo.
The life of the party was elicited by Bernie Sanders’ campaign.
The party must change from being a giant fundraising machine to a movement.
Good background on Pompeo:
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/donald-trumps-cia-pick-koch-brothers-puppet-oil-gas-billionaires-backed-rep-mike
And this is interesting from exiledonline:
Looks like the Kochs will be supplying all the CIA’s toilet paper, then.
-Mona- ? stalked562
January 23 2017, 12:29 a.m.
You and “Stan” are afflicted with that Targeted Individual belief, which in many is clearly paranoid psychosis. The issue of torture is real and serious; it is not a topic meriting being dragged down your rabbit hole.
No he’s not, being targeted with Electromagnetic Weapons IS torture. Read or GOOGLE: Akwei vs Nsa, the lawsuit that revealed government technologies of mass surveillance and operations..it is more valuable than anything Snowden will disclose in his entire life. You are either ignorant, or a govt troll who spends most their time discreding victims.
Yes, it is. However, nothing like that is actually happening. If you believe it is happening to you or to other “targeted individuals,” please seek help.
The whole gangstalking thing seems like an FBI honeypot to discredit both believers and purveyors of this ongoing made to order conspiracy theory.
However it also seems clear that handheld electromagnetic weapons is a stated goal of a number of reputable arms manufacturers.
Our main objection to the testimonial of targeted individuals appears to be the absence of evidence to support their claims. The same essential objection we have to believing the Russians (and Russians alone) purloined the DNC emails absent the supporting evidence national security concerns be damned.
Perhaps we should take the high road and go with the courage of our convictions in requesting proof of the use of such electromagentic weapons. Wnt seems to feel a significant number of extremely unpleasant results might be achieved employing terrahertz frequencies. How might one test for unusual variances in those frequencies remotely and cost effectively Doug?
Not even remotely possible at this point in time, I’m afraid. T-rays are in extremely high frequencies (very, very short wavelengths) (beyond the microwave band) and can’t be produced or measured by ordinary RF techniques or equipment. This is bleeding edge stuff.
To date, there isn’t really any evidence that suggests the terahertz radiation is likely to be physically harmful. On the other hand, it’s pretty likely that it will be developed, soonish, to do things like scan for weapons or other items of interest, through clothing, at a distance. Also good things, like some kinds of medical imaging.
At somewhat lower frequencies (95 GHz, about 3.5mm wavelength) Raytheon and the Air Force have developed a high-energy RF beaming device that causes intense pain by heating the skin from a distance — like a long-range microwave oven. I don’t think they used it in combat (at least not yet), but I did hear that the LA County Sheriff was going to experiment with using it on prisoners, to break up fights, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it used on demonstrators in the mot-too-distant future.
^^^^speaking of trolls
Anyone looking in should skip the Akwei dealie- it’s a time waster.
Read about the National Lawyers Guild lawyer who is seeking standing in a class action to sue the Chicago PD over StingRay use instead:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170115/10300136485/chicago-lawyer-sues-city-police-department-over-stingray-cellphone-surviellance.shtml
Picking this HYDRA octopus of ” organized gang stalking” apart should focus on what is scientifically falsifiable, an focus on real cases and case facts. Then, put the pieces together.
Who eats an octopus with a fork? Sushi knives and chopsticks is the right way to do it-and eat the small pieces at a time.
And who in their right mind would say this “more valuable than anything Snowden will disclose in his entire life”
Mona might be onto something….
Senators Feinstein and Kamala Harris are on the committee.
Makes my job easy. I have doubts about my Senators, though.
Thank you for the update, Zaid Jilani.
If DiFi votes against him, it will be because he personally insulted her over the 2014 release of the Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture.
I wouldn’t hold my breath, though. He had a personal meeting with her to apologize — now he apologizes. ;^(
I’m with you, Mr Salzmann,
I woke up this morning and realized that with our new Senator Harris and our never-met-an-intelligence program, agency, bill, amendment, misbehavior, etc. that I don’t like, DiFi, that I can never presume that they will vote in my interests, so unless they have sponsored or co-sponsored Leg that I like, I have to let them know constantly when I feel strongly.
I feel better now.
I mentioned cluster bombs, proxy wars, drone wars, jailing whistleblowers, abuses of the Espionage Act, spying, chilling protests (a la Occupy, Standing Rock) and a compliant OLC, which can twist the law to say that assassinating US citizens is legal, etc.
I stressed that when the only person that the Admin investigated, prosecuted, and jailed from the CIA was John Kiriakou, no wonder people think bringing torture back is okay.
I ended both emails with this – DC Motto: When banksters do it, it’s okay.
For Kamala, I added (to wit – Steven Mnuchin).
If pompous pompeo looks like stalin, it is not because he is related by blood. It is because he is related by SPIRIT.
Seems at least one economist understands what it is going to take:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/22/trumps-nationalism-response-not-globalization
yep.
the monsters looking to preserve the status quo of a predatory operating environment of war fraud, housing fraud, investment fraud, valuation fraud, currency fraud, news fraud, evidence fraud, privacy fraud, rendition fraud, and a host of other frauds and money in politics, are not going to suddenly wake up, apologize, and walk away. No. They have become infected with a spiritual virus that has them proclaiming that protesters and opposing views are the enemy.
Yanis is the man. Too bad his colleagues in Greece were so ready to sell out to the Austerity Junta.
want to know what makes females kill themselves?
a stressful and negative operating environment.
expect suicides among females to rise in 2017.
mark this post.
Empire at its most powerful has fallen firmly into the hands of cake eaters rather than havers.
I suggest not looking like food, because they’ll be gorging on every easy target.
I do not support slippery slopes, such as torture, one way trade, neocons, entangling alliances, foreign aid, wars for other countries, bailouts for bankers, illegal immigration, sanctuary cities , etc. Everything we do must make life and the economy better for US citizens.
Looks like 4 more years for COINTELPRO / MKULTRA by these pricks.
Thousands are being tortured covertly by military grade RF weaponry.
DEW’s maim, torture and slow kill.
See: Iraqi Poppers.
You and “Stan” are afflicted with that Targeted Individual belief, which in many is clearly paranoid psychosis. The issue of torture is real and serious; it is not a topic meriting being dragged down your rabbit hole.
Mona- again, I ask that you rethink your position on this issue. The Intercept has itself discussed many elements of the TI “phenomenon,” and in fact, lent voice to the voiceless in attempting to examine parts of it:
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
The interruption of internet service; the jamming of a protesters cell phone; the stealing of emails as people hit send; the wholesale exploitation of a Twitter users ability to Tweet at a demonstration; and online harassment that borders on psychopathic manipulation of often vulnerable and definitely targeted individuals- these can and do induce symptoms of paranoid psychosis that are very real, and related to this form of harassment. These are also ‘ electronic harassment,’ by definition.
Then, there are the offline disruption and co-option campaigns that employ ALL of the methods of the past, plus hidden campaigns of personalized terror and disguised as legitimate LE investigations-and they often go on for years, and without the public’s knowledge or oversight:
https://theintercept.com/2016/02/18/fbi-wont-explain-its-bizarre-new-way-of-measuring-its-success-fighting-terror/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/surveillance-black-lives-matter-cointelpro_us_55d49dc6e4b055a6dab24008
https://theintercept.com/2015/01/16/latest-fbi-boast-disrupting-terror-u-s-plot-deserves-scrutiny-skepticism/
Aside from the obvious conflation, and discrediting use of the more bizarre reports of electronic weapons, and the obvious online blogs that clearly are disinformation sites used to further target individuals, we know with certainty that much of the other things done during COINTELPRO have been amplified in the internet and cell phone era.
Lastly, the most nefarious of all is the complicity of psychologists, and others in the community who are de facto informants, and who do not heed the Hyppocratic ethos of “do no harm,” which has also been covered by the Intercept and many others:
https://theintercept.com/2015/08/07/psychologists-work-gchq-deception-unit-inflames-debate-among-peers/
Taken as a whole, it is disingenuous on anyone’s part to dismiss the phenomenon entirely, or to accept or play into the disinformation (and further the harm) by linking it as you do to that odd wiki.
In that light, I wonder if you would have been the one to call ML King crazy had he reported the “why don’t you commit suicide letter” at the time? And who would listen anyways?
Or called a p Freedom Rider, a peace activist, a Black Panther or Peurto Rican nationalist nuts if they reported people following them around, gas-lighting, slashing their tires at inconvenient times, and constant death threats, just before they were assassinated in “odd circumstances”?
And maybe Malcolm X was just a nutter, standing there like a Gavin Long/Myron May/Omar Mateen/Sayed Farook on his front porch in the famous photo with a shotgun.
At what point do you look at the evidence that does exist, and connect the dots? These hidden and personalized terror campaigns have become the new normal. And because a large part of this “thing” is designed to isolate individuals, one must ask at what point are you personally playing into it?
Lastly- yes, Stan and staled 562 down there in Long Beach are an interesting pair indeed. I appreciate that you can pick the wheat from the chafe….
I have never been to Long Beach, do not know anyone who calls him or herself ‘stalked562′.
You are just another boneless patriot .
You and Mona collaborate with murderers.
Ditto, Celeste.
Glenn-Sycophant, true it’s very real.
The Agencies are choosing vacations this week….need to unwind.
Bringing back torture legally and with more techniques from the days of the inquisition only works if the gov has unwilling volunteers to practice with. Thanks to barack hussein obama, that passage in the NDAA crafted by Carl Levin with a nod from john mccain will allow the US gov morlocks working for “whoever” subcontractors to wantonly dissappear americans.
So when you see those “missing persons” flyers, you never know, never will.
No doubt too late for now, but, I would like a Constitutional amendment that says anytime the US contemplates war of any kind, that to move to action, income taxes must significantly increase in order to act on such a bill.
I would also like to see Election Day be a day free from work for all.
No doubt every foreign action involving our military must be accompanied by a mandatory 10% surtax on individuals and business, that will both pay for war and deter it.
Reinstate conscription. Until Americans in general have to face risks to the lives and safety of their sons and daughters — not just risks to gung ho volunteers and brown people far away — they will never truly resist our warmongering and adventurism.
We like our wars, unless our very own kids have a good chance of coming home in a box.
A non-denominational “amen” to that.
All of you pretend Zersetzung Torture does not happen in the USA.
Perhaps the greatest existential threat was the slaveholders’ revolt after 1861, yet the United States promulgated this:
Obama greenlighting the torture of Chelsea Manning meant that the former president not only excused past administrations’ cruel and inhuman treatment of enemy “suspects” (and indeed, Obama’s administration’s own force-feeding torture at Gitmo), such abuses could even be inflicted on the United States’ own troops.
And with further regard to your excerpt above…
[George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775]
Odd, to think that the Lieber Code started a new line of international law whose stopping points included Geneva and Nuremberg, treaties also written by the U.S., and now the new administration is rationalizing how to get out of all that.
Odd and incredibly sad. Even the pretense of honor has fallen away from American culture now – typified perfectly by Trump replacing the Obama/Clinton era of cleverly-disguised greed and malevolence, rendering the United States’ corruption now a proud grimace of spiteful evil that matches the nation’s shallow, blackened heart. Hate, hypocrisy and above all an abandonment of honor and integrity are now unapologetically the modus operandi of both the opinionated, commenting populace-at-war-with-itself, and the vicious Powers That Be looting the world with angry Full Spectrum Dominance.
Unless the culture can regain some sense of real moral courage and honor, the establishment will continue to further embody the death of humanity and decency without any genuine, noble resistance from the bitterly divided people. While people on both “sides” only want to win the egoistic appearance-wars, neglecting any real attempt to have personal integrity, Trump seems an appropriate visage for the hubristic victory of mean-spiritedness in the USA.
Very well said, both of you. History shows us repeated instances of societies that practice and reward both egalitarian and selfish behaviors, and what we’re seeing today, at least in my corner of America, is that the rewards we reap when that history is either revised to reflect what those in power wish it to reflect, and in many cases, when events are not even presented at all, is that you end up with miserable results.
Accurate information (not “alternative facts” as Trump’s minion Kellyanne Conway describes it today) is the only alternative to living in a world that reflects the insecurities and pathologies of “our leaders.”
The time to condemn this was when the torture advocate said, in public:
If you vote for the guy explicitly bragging about how he’d torture helpless prisoners, then you can’t suddenly say, “yeah, but …”
This statement alone should have disqualified Trump.
You certainly can not trust any information derived from torture.
The fear of torture is a profound motivator.
Threaten it, pretend to do it, run scams with actors, but in the end, NO!
Torturers are Patriots.
W0X0F says take the high road, like the parent next door who beats the shit out of his children for making too much noise putting a pillow in the pillowcase, making damn sure the bruises are strategically located: under the kids’ school clothing.
Patriots are Torturers.
The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report, titled “Committee Study of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Detention and Interrogation Program,” was finalized in December 2014 after protracted efforts by the Obama administration and the CIA to obstruct and delay the investigation. At that time, a heavily redacted 525 page “executive summary” was released to the public. The full report, which apparently numbers some 6,700 pages, has been kept secret.
The redacted copy of the executive summary establishes unequivocally that CIA personnel perpetrated war crimes, including torture and murder.
Oops, sorry. The text after the blockquote was supposed to have been left out.
But do read it, and the rest of the post, at the linked location.
great post!
it should be obvious that the CIA operates in a criminal enterprise as the torture and kill arm of the criminal enterprise of the US gov – which even extorts and robs its own citizens. US foreign policy is nothing more than the bank job plans for robbing other countries. The TPP was ultimate plan to victimize the world legally without having to invade sovereign countries and make war to do so.
All sane and rational people (which includes torture survivors) know that torture never works. How do I know this? I myself am a torture survivor. The three psychos that did this to me over a long period of time were never arrested or prosecuted. Why? Because the statute of limitations ran out. I can’t file criminal or civil charges. I tried to get victim’s compensation, but was denied. You will say and do ANYTHING to make the pain stop. There is no cure for PTSD.
Why are psychotic assholes like Pompeo allowed to be in govt. (not to mention a possible CIA head)? Who knows. But if he and Trump are insane enough to actually believe that torture works, take it one step further. Do a live demonstration of waterboarding on prime time as a “Presidential address”. If you really believe that it’s effective and will protect us from “terrorists”, then you should have no problems showing the public.
Now, will they actually do this? The media corporations were convinced that Trump’s racism and other shit were great for business. Following that “logic”, why wouldn’t you put it on? Imagine the ratings. Besides, you ARE running a business, right? So what’s the problem?
One sign of a dictator? You must maintain control of the media at all times. ANYTHING that makes you look less than 100% strong must be stopped at all costs. No matter how tiny or petty it may seem to others, what they think doesn’t matter. The leader must always be powerful at all times. What’s the difference between Trump and Kim Jung Un? I don’t see any.
name them and sue them.
get a gofundme going to keep the issue front and center and bold in their face.
never quit.
The USA PATRIOT Act did away with the 10-year statute of limitations on torture. Of course the intent of the law was not to bring US torturers to justice!
Can torture make the CIA great again? Under Mr. Brennan, they became a covert killing agency and intelligence was mostly neglected. Torture is generally considered to be a crude way to gather intelligence. But if you haven’t cultivated contacts in foreign countries, it may not be possible to collect human intelligence by conventional means. So torture may be the only option.
The Senate, of course, has no principles so this is not an obstacle. It will come down to what is most expedient, and Mr. Trump did promise to reinstate torture during his election campaign. It has been demonstrated by the previous administration that no legal sanctions are ever deployed against torturers, so this concern can be dismissed.
This might be an opportune time to invest in one of the new torture startups selling their services to the CIA. It’s time to start torturin’ some folks.
It’s a lucrative business, Duce, esp. if privatized. The Bush Administration paid over $80m to consultants to advise them on torture, including methodology.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/cia-torture-report/cia-paid-torture-teachers-more-80-million-n264756
Also, Duce, if you don’t want to put your soldiers and agents in legal harm’s way by ordering them to torture suspects in violation of the UCMJ or U.S. Code, you can hire third-party contractors, which the Bush Administration did do at times. That way you can have separation between you and any bad press later.
https://ccrjustice.org/home/what-we-do/our-cases/al-shimari-v-caci-et-al
Alternatively, if you happen to be the convening authority, and assuming you have been cagey enough not to give explicit orders that can be dispositively attributed to you, you can just arbitrarily dismiss charges against anyone who happens to be caught in the act of committing those war crimes.
See Haditha Massacre and the actions of Mad Dog Mattis.
That’s the thing about the U.S. court martial system. The U.S. doesn’t have standing military criminal courts, rather, the commanding general convenes one for each case. Or not.
But see the case of Pvt. Manning, whose general court-martial convening authorities were Gens. Odierno and Petraeus in the theater of war, yet was renditioned to the Military District of Washington, where the top of the chain of command was a Commander in Chief, one B. Obama.
Quite. It “works both ways.” And it is quite notable that it tends to work one way for “overly-enthusiastic warriors” and the other way for those who dare, for instance, to reveal the facts and results of that enthusiasm.
Startups saturated the foreign and domestic markets long ago. The next step is a fresh approach to reality TV. Americans love that shit.
These people need to remember that we live in uncertain political times. Obama didn’t prosecute torturers, but who knows about the next guy.
If you are a low ranking officer your concern may be justified. Unlike those who give orders, those who follow orders may be subject to prosecution. My advice is not to take pictures of yourself engaged in torture, or if you do take pictures, not to distribute them on the internet, or if you distribute them on the internet, not to strike a pose with a grin on your face.
Indeed, Duce, and that carries an additional penalty, as the Kill Team or Abu Ghraib enlisted people found out. If your pictures make the higher-ups look bad, you run afoul of an unwritten law of lèse majesté that will garner a court-martial.
CIA, FBI, all MIC-related agencies, PDs all over the states, “fusion centers”, … who would have thought that “‘the’ land of ‘the’ ‘free’ and ‘the’ ‘brave'” would have gone dark so seamlessly, quietly, effortlessly? I am not being sarcastic. I genuinely wonder!
Also, they know well, not even morally, just “technically” speaking, torture doesn’t really lead them anywhere or solver anything. They are doing it to justify salaries and satisfy their sadistic, “patriotic” impulses.
I don’t think that it would have been any different with the Clintons. They would have just been less open, histrionic about it, which to some people makes a difference.
RCL
So if “experts” (e.g., a lawyer at DOJ like John Yoo) decide that the law was an “impediment”, I would “want to understand … whether any recommendations were appropriate for changing current law.”
Changing? As in, getting Congress to formally change Title 18 U.S. Code relevant to torture, criminal mayhem or battery, Common Art. 3 of Geneva and such? Getting the President to disavow current U.S. treaty participation in say, Geneva, the Convention Against Torture and such? Getting a court (FISA at least) to determine whether 5th Am. due process case law applies?
Or changing as in expedience?
Now, there’s a juxtaposition.
Gee, and just a month or two ago we were hearing about how no, Trump’s nominees didn’t really want to torture people! We need a flowchart for Trump-related news:
______________________________ ______________________________________
\ Is there anything hopeful about it? \ —-> YES —-> |It’s the “liberal propaganda machine”, ignore! |
_______________________________ ______________________________________
|
NO
V
__________________________________________________________
\ Does it make you want to go out and hurt somebody with no money? \ —-> YES —-> Trump/Russian “fake news”, ignore!
__________________________________________________________
|
NO
V
_______________________________ __________________________________________
\ Does it make you feel total despair? \ —-> YES —->| This is accurate. Calculate how much it will cost. |
_______________________________ __________________________________________
|
NO
V
___________________________________________
| Idiot, you’ve been tricked! Try to understand how. |
___________________________________________
If this seems suspiciously similar to the flowchart for “hopeful” news out of Islamic countries, there is a reason for that. Worshipping capitalism isn’t really any better than worshipping Islam!
The fact that a potential proponent of torture might be permitted to hold office is a direct result of Barack Obama’s stupid failure to prosecute those officials who ordered it previously.
We should be able to say “Torture is illegal, and we’ll prosecute to the fullest extent of the law anyone who executes such cruel and inhuman actions” – but because neither the former president nor Dianne Feinstein’s Torture Report called for any legal action to be brought down upon Bush-era abusers, no such threats can be made; and this is in spite of the fact that according to international (and indeed U.S.) law torture is explicitly illegal.
Plus, Obama has been torturing Gitmo inmates with brutal force-feeding procedures for years. Perhaps this explains part of his idiotic reluctance, which has now become a carte blanche in this regard for the temperamental Mr. Trump and the Deep State evidently controlling all government.
Meanwhile…Barry is at Larry Ellison’s private golf paradise fielding offers no doubt. To bad he missed Davos – but wait till next year!
The fact that a potential proponent of torture might be permitted to hold office is a direct result of Barack Obama’s stupid failure to prosecute those officials who ordered it previously.
PRECISELY.
i might add that barack’s failure to prosecute dumya and cheney for fraud, illegal wars, war crimes, criminal negligence and treason also are a burning fire destroying the american fabric of morality.
also – not prosecuting wallstreet thieves have rendered americans on mainstreet as permanent targets to be robbed used and abused at wallstreet’s will.
now we have a government that really is ORGANISED CRIME.
And unlike the Pentagon perhaps slow-footing clearances of GTMO detainees, Obama’s AGs have seemed to follow his orders. So not excuses of rogue AGs.
Obama to AGs: “Heavily prosecute whistleblowers and leakers (unless they’re favored, in which case give them probation). Organize with ICE and locals to jail and deport the most immigrants ever. Do not even think about prosecuting torturers, wall street fraudsters, any official from the previous admin, and let’s say weed growers, to throw the chumps a bone. Oh, also do nothing to stop civil forfeiture, keep aiding states with that. And on that black lives matter thing and the indian protests…well I guess if it gets big enough in the media do something, otherwise do nothing. Do not be proactive on this.”
P.S. It occurs that Trump could immediately declare to his AG that the mary jane federal laws should now by enforced, leading to thousands of grower/distributor arrests even if states have made it legal. Maybe hundreds of thousands if there’s first a lengthy surveillance operation focused on buyers. Don’t think I’ve ever seen this possibility discussed. And it’s not like even an EO exists. Obama simply directed the AG and FBI etc. to not seek prosecutions (except in some cases, but not generally light recreational or medicinal purposes).
Well if they bring back torture the whole of our Goverment could be considered in VIOLATION of the Paris 1928 act…..that we tried the Japanese Government and be subject to the same indictments,,,,,namely HANGING.
Relevant treaties on that, to which the U.S. is still a signatory, include the four Geneva Conventions, the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and the UN Charter. Although we’re not a party to the Statute of Rome and the Int’l Criminal Court, we are signatories to the Nuremberg Charter and Principles, under which we prosecuted war criminals.
Also, simply to detain a suspect for torture means an extrajudicial process of detention. If they’re not PWs it suggests they’re a suspect of some sort and the Due Process clause applies to everyone the US deals with. This is ignoring the self-incrimination aspect, if you don’t intend to use the torture to get a confession for trial.
By the way … Pompeo’s rationale could, with treaking, apply to domestic criminal investigations. Certainly a terrorism case inside the U.S. might start this process (see, e.g., the Jose Padilla case).
Erratum: “with tweaking”. Would like edit function. Sad!
America has been running out of new things to do. Entertainment which has been getting repetitively stale is being challenged by near nude reality shows of battling participants like tiny mini wars. Going for walks in the park has devolved into self defence shoot-outs. Education is more about how destroying and poisoning the environment isnt as bad as you think. What’s left? Casting the resultant national collective angst onto the rest of the planet and seeing who else we can snare seems to be the new american ambition led by the dumb&dumbers of foreign policy. This effort is going to require the taking of persons who oppose foreign policy demands to be reconditioned.
Guantanamo can save America. Education can embrace the creativity of more acceptable forms of torture. Entertainment can ease the cameras into all corners of the action there. The dumb&dumbers that run the american govt can finally proclaim themselves as having done something more american. And walks thru the park can become a new pastime of capture and torture before the kill.
See my later post about World Wrestling Entertainment, which may be on point after all. I suppose torture and vulgar entertainment go together, as they did in ancient Rome. Given the amount of brain damage our football players take for the plebeian class’s entertainment, we might as well hand NFL players swords and tridents and be honest about it.
That’s good. On the other hand, Sanders voted to confirm psychopath Mad Dog Mattis, “The Butcher of Fallujah” and enabler of the Haditha Massacre.
Prediction: This comment will either be ignored or will elicit replies ‘splainin and ‘scusin this latest example of Bernie’s long-time collaboration with the warmongers and the MIC.
“But he voted against the Iraq War!”
“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
~James Mattis, speaking to a group of soldiers about how to behave in Iraq, in 2003
israel and the US have learned from adolf’s mistakes.
I will not ignore it.
I told my mother this morning that Bernie barely talked about foreign policy, except when he mentioned the coup (Honduras), and other digs in passing. He never said he was going to cut Defense or stop drones, etc. Not arguing and not defending.
Some journalists have been complaining about the Dems weaknesses in resisting this new POTUS & staff. Most are too traumatized. Sanders has been one of the few voices of reason, but he’s not perfect.
What do you use to italicize, change font colors, and make letters bold? I haven’t discovered the secret yet.
Only a few HTML formatting tags work here. And I’m not sure how well the software will support displaying them. Let’s try one first:
Italic (aka “emphasis”) = <em>What you want italicized.</em>
OK. That worked. So:
<strong>What you want displayed in bold.</strong>
<blockquote>What you want blockquoted.</blockquote>
<u>What you want underlined.</u>
<strike>What you want in strikethrough font.</strike>
<font color = “red”>What you want in red.</font>
<a href = “url-goes-here.html”>Title of site you want to link to</a>
Let’s see what those yield:
What you want italicized.
What you want displayed in bold.
So, font color doesn’t work and neither does the version of the underline tag we tried. Let’s see if the older form — “ul” instead of “u” will do it here:
What you want underlined.
Nope, no underlining.
I read that HTML might not work.
I never remember from which site I copied the last time, so my results have always been inconsistent.
Boy oh boy, did I ever ask the right person.
Thank you, Doug Salzmann.
Here’s a site that uses a side-by-side editor and handles much of that.
Your input is very welcome, Sillyputty, but your link takes me back to TI.
I found a website that will do twenty different things with your text, but it’s not spontaneous enough.
I can learn this.
Thank you.
Rather than debate these arcane and inhuman methods for extracting information, we should question and reexamine the presumed value of the CIA itself as it exists: broken, factionalized, at war with itself, its presumed security mandate and the population it ostensibly serves.
There are factions within the CIA , one that serves a neocon cabal that seeks governmental dominance and submission of the populace to its will.
Does the senate even dare expose just how corrupted its links to third party contractors has become? How involved it is in the destruction of nations for so-called regime change and the ensuing orgy of pillage it uses as incentives to corrupt officials? It’s a very dark hole.
This conclusion comes from many who’ve served as intelligence officers that refused to be part of missions that destroy lawful principles, constitutional protections from tyranny, and most basic human decencies. There are unspeakable, dehumanizing practices employed methodologically within the CIA that most can not imagine.
The CIA itself needs the exposure of public hearings to determine who and what it will serve in the future. If we condone torture and immoral methodologies we’re party to crimes against humanity. The blowback that ensues is guaranteed on both operational and societal levels.
The senate has repeatedly failed in its oversight responsibilities to rein in the violence used to no practical value during interrogations. So says the vast number of true intelligence professionals not caught up in the malevolence of institutional psychopathy. They deplore it unequivocally.
Our superficial culture of violence reflects an abandon of rational morality and we’re paying a terrible price for accepting the indulgence.
No torture, period, or all moral high ground is lost and we’re lost with it.
Very well said.
You might want to pick up ‘The Devil’s Chessboard’ if you want more insight into the workings of the CIA and who they’re really working for. Unfortunately exposing them on any level isn’t going to happen, ever.
It will be very interesting to see which members of The Senate Intelligence Committee support torture, which is breaking international and U.S. law:
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/committees/SLIN
Keep your eyes on Feinstein, Reed, Heinrich, Hirono, King, Warner and Wyden.
Not sure who of this cabal is up for re-election in 2018, but any of them who are considering voting “for” Pompeo should think very hard about their vote.
Feinstein, Heinrich, Hirono & King.
Except for Feinstein, all intend to run for reelection. Feinstein has not decided but has hinted that she will.
Feinstein (or her “designated successor”), Heinrich and Hirono are almost certainly safe and voting for Pompeo in committee would entail almost no risk.
King (an independent) doesn’t have quite the security the others have, but it’s unlikely that any committee vote now would make too much difference, in Maine, next year.
Hirono isn’t on the committee, as DiFi is no long ranking member..
Add Joe Manchin to your list.
It seems worth noting that Obama and Trump CIA pick Pompeo are on the same page when it comes to expanding domestic surveillance powers:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/obama-expands-surveillance-powers-his-way-out
Gosh thanks Obama, we need Big Brother watching over us more than ever now, don’t we?
the warrant thing was too much of a hassle. Given the need for speed and the volume of investigatable activity, judges could not read and sign warrants fast enuf and the backlog was piling up. Third world predatory dictatorships went thru the same thing until they learned better. Also the CIA, experienced as subcontractors in death squad dictatorships, always marveled at the efficiency of courtless control. Jealousy and greed finally got the better of the dumb&dumbers running the US.