Less than one week after senior leadership at the Department of Homeland Security issued a policy guidance that threatened to bring much of the government’s asylum and refugee work to a grinding halt, a new directive issued to employees appears to reverse key elements of the procedures U.S. immigration officials are expected to follow. The contradictory directives came as government agencies struggled to interpret and implement the Trump administration’s travel ban targeting seven Muslim-majority countries — a broad and ambiguous order that is already facing legal challenges in several federal courts across the country.
According to an internal memo issued Thursday by Lori Scialabba, the acting director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the portion of Trump’s controversial ban pertaining to the issuance of visas and other benefits to immigrants from the targeted countries “does not affect USCIS adjudication of applications and petitions filed for or on behalf of individuals in the United States regardless of their country or nationality.”
The new memo, obtained by The Intercept, stands in direct contradiction to the earlier DHS guidance, which effectively blocked U.S. immigration officials from issuing decisions in any adjustment of status cases for nationals of the banned countries — including applications for permanent residency and naturalization by individuals already in the United States.
Last weekend, as DHS personnel scrambled to figure out what the executive order meant for their work, a directive from Daniel M. Renaud, associate director of field operations for USCIS, informed senior officials that “Effectively [sic] immediately and until additional guidance is received, you may not take final action on any petition or application where the applicant is a citizen or national of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, and Libya.”
A number of rank-and-file DHS staffers were horrified to learn of the directive when they returned to work on Monday.
Thursday’s memo essentially walked back the previous memo — a sign of the chaos that continues to dominate the agency and an indication that policies related to the ban remain uncertain, fluid, and subject to public as well as internal pressure.
In the more recent memo, Scialabba noted that the portion of the executive order dealing with visas and immigration benefits for individuals from the listed countries “does not affect applications and petitions by lawful permanent residents outside the United States, or applications and petitions for individuals outside the United States whose approval does not directly confer travel authorization (including any immigrant or nonimmigrant visa petition).”
The acting director added that USCIS “may continue to adjudicate” permanent resident and status change applications for individuals from the countries targeted by Trump’s order and that the office will continue to adjudicate refugee and asylum petitions for individuals from any country who are already in the United States. “USCIS will continue refugee interviews when the person is a religious minority in his or her country of nationality facing religious persecution,” she wrote.
“Additionally, USCIS will continue refugee interviews in jurisdictions where there is a preexisting international agreement related to refugee processing. USCIS will not approve a refugee application for an individual who we determine would pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States,” Scialabba wrote, adding that her office will also “continue adjudicating all affirmative asylum cases according to existing policies and procedures.”
The new memo was met with some relief — if ongoing confusion — by immigration officials who had essentially seen their jobs transformed overnight by the original directive.
“This memo completely reverses the hold imposed Monday,” a senior U.S. immigration official told The Intercept, speaking on condition of anonymity. “There is now no additional processing requirements for all immigration petitions for nationals of affected countries. It is essentially a return to the status quo.”
“The speed of the volte-face is surprising,” the official added, noting that a reversal of directive in less than a week was “light speed in government.”
As The Intercept reported earlier this week, the inspector general of DHS opened an investigation into the chaotic rollout of the executive order as well as reports of noncompliance with court orders and “allegations of individual misconduct on the part of DHS personnel.” The probe came in response to “congressional request and whistleblower and hotline complaints,” the office said in a statement confirming the investigation.
Both the internal review and rapid changes in the directives issued to DHS staff are a result of an executive order that was drafted without the input of the agency’s career officials.
This haphazard implementation of Trump’s plan to remake America’s immigration system has resulted in widespread fear and confusion. In addition to an indeterminate number of deportations that have occurred since last week, reports have surfaced of individuals being pressured to sign documents forfeiting their green cards and legal U.S. residents being stranded abroad while traveling.
A State Department memo released last week as part of a lawsuit challenging the travel ban authorized the government to “provisionally revoke all valid nonimmigrant and immigrant visas of nationals” of the seven countries affected. A U.S. government lawyer in Virginia on Friday said that more than 100,000 visas have now been revoked, while the State Department itself has claimed that the figure is closer to 60,000. Both figures contradict Trump administration claims that just 109 travelers were adversely impacted by the ban.
Many of the changes triggered by Trump’s ban have affected international students and other legal permanent residents of the United States, leading to fears of a wave of deportations in the future.
The sweeping, abrupt shifts in U.S. immigration policy triggered by Trump’s executive order have generated widespread protests, with activists descending on major U.S. airports to demand the release of travelers held in detention by border officials. Internal pressure also appears to be building, with immigration officials pushing back against some of the most callous aspects of their new mandate.
The directive DHS officials received earlier this week caused shock and confusion within the department itself — but also spread anxiety among those whose status and immigration prospects were suddenly in limbo, and frustration among the lawyers representing them.
“I think they’re walking themselves back,” said Claudia Cubas, an attorney at the Capital Area Immigrants’ Rights Coalition, who works with immigrants at risk of detention and deportation in the D.C. area.
The early memo, Cubas said, was “very broadly worded” — applying not only to adjustment of status cases, but also to more routine applications that have a significant impact on people, like renewing their green card application or renewing their employment authorization. “That meant people would be placed in legal limbo but also in financial limbo,” she said, noting that many immigrants rely on the processing of these applications to continue to work legally.
The new memo suggests the impact would be more limited, she added, but not insignificant. “If there’s still some type of impediment for people to file applications, I think the repercussions will be less than with the previous guidance, but there are still repercussions.”
Most importantly, she noted, the lack of clarity and consistency remains a problem for the thousands of people affected by the executive order. “The importance that government bureaucracies provide, especially such large ones as DHS and USCIS, is consistency in the application of the laws and clear guidance,” Cubas said. “And that has been ultimately the concern since the executive order was issued by the president — that it wasn’t clearly applied, it’s been affecting people very, very differently. And these are not just numbers, these are people’s lives.”
Top photo: Yemeni-led protest outside Brooklyn Borough Hall on Feb. 2, 2017.
Immigration ban. Visa full stop. Reavulate with us citizens as first choice for jobs.
NOT A MUSLIM BAN!
Nowhere in the EO will you find the words “Christian” or “Muslim”. You can read into it as the authors, the NYT and NPR chose to do, but the order does not ban anyone based upon religion; it suspends travel for EVERYONE from seven countries for a period of time to assess the visa program. Once the time period expires and visa issuance restarts, the EO says to “prioritize” persecuted religious minorities (all minorities), not ban or restrict anyone based upon religious background.
If one dispense with leftist binary thinking for a moment, one might just realize that Shiites and Alawites are also, wait for it, MINORITY branches of Islam where Sunnis account for 80%-90% of all. Have you heard of the Yazidis? Google “Genocide of Yazidis by ISIL/S” or “Rape of Yazidi Women” sometime. Even Kurds in northern Iraq would qualify as a “minority religion” under this EO. Which branch of Islam do the ISIS/L nutjobs follow? That’s right, Wahhabist Sunni Islam in general, but overall some sect of Sunna, not Shia. Nowhere in the EO is there a restriction on “Islam” or “Muslims”, nor is there a preference for “Christians”, only a preference for granting visas/waivers to persecuted religious minorities. This makes perfect sense to all but the most bitter and closed minded partisans.
Furthermore, the largest Muslim populations of the world reside in Indonesia, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. There are no travel bans for citizens of these countries. Likewise, there are no travel bans on other countries with predominantly Muslim populations: Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, etc.
The seven countries in question (Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen) are already included in the original Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (Amended in 2016). The EO merely enforces the provisions of this existing piece of legislation and temporarily suspends visas/waivers from these countries with know terrorist elements and conflicts until additional vetting can be completed.
The fact that many existing visa holders were caught up in this sweeping order is unfortunate, but as the order states all visas/waivers will be assessed on a case by case basis. There is no ban.
The order as explained by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/2017/01/31/512439121/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-annotated
Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act Amendment of 2016
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program
H.R.58 – Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158
An alien shall be ineligible for program participation who:
has been present, at any time on or after March 1, 2011, in Iraq or Syria, in a country designated as one that has repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism, or in any other country or area of concern designated by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS); and
regardless of whether the alien is a national of a program country, is a national of Iraq or Syria, a country designated as a country that has repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism, or any other country or area of concern.
You say its not a Muslim ban, but do you believe that we are at war with Islam?
“it suspends travel for EVERYONE from seven countries for a period of time to assess the visa program.”
Assess the visa program for what? Appropriate levels of evil?
Would Sauron approve?
Calling it a “muslim ban” is deceptive bordering on manipulation. Saudi Arabia isn’t banned thought it really deserves to.
Using the same reasoning, would you say that calling terrorism committed by some who claim to be Muslims, “Muslim/Islamic Terrorism”, is “deceptive bordering on manipulation” because overwhelming majority of Muslims don’t commit terrorism and do not consider it to be Islamic?
Perhaps, you will get my point and will not put words into my mouth by suggesting that I favor the usage of the term “Muslim Ban”, as other responders to this query of mine have stated, completely missing my point.
I do see why you object to the overgeneralization of Islamic terrorism. So you certainly got a point there. However you probably will have to admit that the wahabi type terrorist certainly do exploit their indeed questionable claim to being somehow ‘Islamic’.
However the term ‘Muslim ban’ for more extensive vetting of people from seven countries not exclusively Muslim albeit a majority, is designed to mislead the public. Misrepresenting the actual directive aimed at the very same seven countries as earlier identified by the Obama administration is a deliberately false appeal to identity politics.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/27/executive-order-protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states
I understand.
My only point has been this:
If you object to calling it a ‘Muslim Ban’ because not all Muslims are impacted by it, then you should also object to the term, “Muslim/Islamic Terrorism” because not all Muslims commit terrorism and not all Muslims consider it to be Islamic (i.e., according to Islam).
As a matter of fact, overwhelming majority of Muslims consider it un-Islamic, and most people killed by terrorism committed by other so-called Muslims are actually Muslims.
Hi Sufi,
How would you characterize tan act of a terror who claims to be Muslim?
Would the phrasing be any different if an act of terror was carried out by a secular Muslim?
Some so-called human beings are calling for the death of others on this thread.
This is not just so-called monstrous – these folks are the American version of ISIS that created Bannon/Trump.
Yes, we should certainly have empathy for those hurt by “Muslim Ban Chaos”, but we should also recognize polarizing and distracting tactics used to take our focus away from what is going on behind the scenes as our state and federal legislators, acting as the sycophants they are of their funders, scurry to implement the agenda of our corporatocracy.
For example, we should be relentlessly protesting the repealing of Dodd-Frank, which is only a watered down version of needed financial regulation as the absolute the last straw regarding the people’s accepting, foolishly, the burden of a failed two party system existing as a mere sham representation of democratic principles.
Due to the violence and the way these people are trained to hate American white people. The executive orders have to be accommodated to the present time.
I believe the ban on the entrance to our country by radical Muslims area’s should be inforced.
We don’t need there way of life. The dominant acts of men raping and killing with no remorse. The men from these radical Muslim countries. Have no respect for the female life. Is this what we want here in America? Come on.
And I don’t know where it comes from that women are afraid with President Trump as our President. Ladies!! Trump will treat you with more respect then you will ever find in a somolian man when he catches you helpless and alone.
Donald Trump is our President now. He deserves way more respect then he is getting. Give him the rings and leave him alone.
“Trump will treat you with more respect then you will ever find in a somolian man when he catches you helpless and alone.”
“Give him [Trump] the rings and leave him alone.”
Thank you for taking a break from Beirbart and Fox News, to bless us with your delusion view on the world. These evil racial caricatures that you conjured up in your mind sure seem menacing. I think after your motivational lynching rant, Americans are ready to forfeit our constitutional government and transition to tyranny via decrees.
Hey but at least Trump is right about Russia.
I wonder, after Trumpdy Dumpty builds that great wall to sit on, if Bibi and the men from the Heritage Foundation are going stick around to put Trumpty back together again?
trumpty dumpty?
omfg.
what has become of America?
genocided the native americans
enslaved the africans
sprayed pesticides on the mexicans
supported south africa and israel
invaded a sovereign nation under false pretenses
allowed wallstreet to rob the 99%
renditioned and tortured persons
promised to rendition Americans the same by the NDAA
droned classified muslim terrorists and their friends and family
and convinced the world we are the greatest nation on the earth.
…..
Well then. This is a new formula for success they are not teaching in school because my son has not yet asked me who to kill and how many. That’s a good thing?
I’m proud of my country for helping countries like Israel that are the victims of aggression.
The Federal courts have already issued injunctions completely overturning Trump’s executive order on the ban of immigrants from the affected nations. The executive branch has no choice but to comply, unless it can win on appeal in Federal court. So far, the latter hasn’t happened.
One question that I have not seen asked is “What about the loved ones of the 15 people killed in San Bernardino Ca. by a muslin co worker and his wife. He found his wife on the web and over he went and they married retuned to the US and sadly had one child. The they went to his place of employment and killed 15 co workers. Is this not the reason that we need to fix the venting process? How about the Boston bombers. The U.S. was told twice that they were real trouble by Russia and it was ignored. We all know what happened. I think long before these last two week that Trump should never become president and he scares the hell out of me but lets be honest Hillary would have and her and the neocons would have us a war. Also being forgotten was that the Democrats cheated Bernie from winning. I know Russia did it. Yea.
Syed Rizwan Farook was born in the US and his wife Tashfeen Malik was born in Pakistan. That has nothing to do with any of the countries on the current ban list and no vetting in the world could have prevented that. It was homegrown violence. Attempts to connect these elements by the right smack of some incredible levels of intellectual dishonesty.
Very good. If Muslim is so great, then why leave? Maybe if they all quit running away countries would respect and not invade them.
“If Muslim is so great , then why leave ” ….that might be the single most ignorant statement I have read all day….
No one should be surprised at Bannon/Trump WH.
Those people who voted for the duo got exactly what they wanted – bigoted, conspiracy theorists, with a penchant for lying. Those who did not vote for Bannon/Trump got exactly what they were scared of – misogynists, racists, and liars.
These folks don’t have any decency. Rather than acknowledging a lifetime appointed (Bush) judge, they attack him. They have taken the “you are either with us or against us” to another level. They want to persecute people who disagree with them. No surprise!
Whataboutary and misdirection will not help you Turmpites. Keep telling yourself that we we went into Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Afghanistan, … because of some mission to help their people; or perhaps to help the American people. NOT! It was all to help “the few”. It is sad that the village idiots continue to fall for the slick ad!
This is what the Clintons did to our country–this is the bald face of treason:
“This dire situation came about largely as a result of a U.S. decision to rely on China, which is estimated to produce 90 percent of all processed rare earth elements sold to U.S. consumers, including the Pentagon. In 1995, the Clinton administration allowed two U.S. rare earth producers, in North Carolina and Indiana (the home state of Vice President Mike Pence) to go out of business. They transferred their production capacity to China, leaving it as the world’s only large-scale REE supplier.”
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/02/03/chinas-secret-trump-card-could-beijing-deprive-our-military-critical-defense-components.html
Those REEs will still be there if China ever does throttle their sales to the US.
Refining and production isn’t a simple matter. At one of those U.S. foundries the Chinese literally boxed up the entire process on the floor and shipped it overseas.
LOL!
Why are you even here? Are you paid well?
Yeah, I thought so.
You need to learn basic macroeconomics to understand how silly your (and Fox News’) attempt at scaremongering really is.
RT is spreading rumors like this one here:
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/376306-trump-muslim-ban-war-iran/
No one said Iran was going to ditch the US$ like Iraq and Libya wanted to do some time back when they were still very peaceful and prosperous countries. It would be certainly an irresponsible thing to do now, as Saddam and Qaddafi have learnt to their dismay. But RT is spreading this fake news with the blessing of President Putin who was a sure candidate to support Iran. Luckily, Presidents Trump and Putin have good relations that they will hopefully not spoil because of Iran.
We want Iran to continue with their missile testings and make sure there is a reasonably good ground to extend the fates of Syria and Iraq to the fertile lands of Iranian Mullahs. Allahakbars, all will be fine then.
RT is spreading this real news with the recent formal blessing of the United Nations questioning if “it seems almost as though Iran is going out of its way to attract the wrath of James Mattis and even Israel”
Vladimir Putin Editor in Chief (PropOrNot General?)
THE COUNT: Iran has almost one (1) nuclear bomb. Israel has more than one (1) nuclear bomb. As of Sept. 1, 2016 Russia reported it had 1,796 nuclear warheads on 508 deployed ICBMs, SLBMs and heavy bombers.
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obama-and-russias-nuclear-stockpile/
One of the dilemmas that we educated people have these days is that we are so embroiled in the controversy of fake and real news that we are unable to distinguish between news and speculation.
What RT is doing is speculating. It will be news only when we nuke Iran and John McCain dances his famous jig on TV.
Question More.
Another tile in the mosaic of that continues to add credence to what we know already …
Read the Washington Post story about Steve Bannon (Donald’s brain). He pitches a conspiratorial movie called “ISLAMIC STATE OF AMERICA” in which FBI, NYT, Jews and CAIR are hand-in-hand trying to bring about the Islamic State in America.
Regardless of policy disagreements, it should be scary to all that we are being led by a nut with brains borrowed from a nut-job.
strike the “of” in the “… tile in the mosaic of that …”
The Ottoman Empire. JayZ’s heard of it.
All of which proves that tRump & Co. don’t have a fucking clue about what it is that they’re doing. They’re ignorantly clueless peabrains.
Or they know exactly what they’re doing, inflaming the extremes to create chaos that they can capitalize on. Nothing they’ve done is diminishing the support they won with, indeed, it inoculate (ironic, given they don’t believe in vaccines) them against their voters holding them responsible for the failures of their policies to have the effect they claimed they would (despite, of course, every place those policies have been tried has shown them failing to achieve what they promised, and usually to make things worse). But it does give them a way to appeal to the ones who didn’t vote, by blaming things on the opposition to them. Someone strikes back after being brutalised by American troops or cops, think which is more emotionally comfortable for the ‘swing’ voter, that the fault lies with American brutal policies and society, or with the person who attacked Americans? And that is why, despite my personal hopes to the contrary, I won’t be shocked, or even surprised, to see Trump getting a second term.
Australia detains its illegal immigrants into hot, fetid, cramped exile on Manus and Nauru Islands.
Where’s the outrage? Oh that’s right–the Obama administration cut deals with Malcolm Turnbull to mail them to the U.S.
Of course Obama cut a deal with the Australian prime minister to send these immigrants to the United States! It would have been inhumane to leave them inside “hot, fetid, and cramped” prisons on remote tropical isles, but I suppose you’re okay with such maltreatment of immigrants.
‘Religious Freedom is our First Freedom’
The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices. It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. It also guarantees the right of citizens to assemble peaceably and to petition their government.
Amendment I – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment
And it’s not a “Muslim Ban.”
So, let me get this straight:
It is not a ‘Muslim Ban’ because most Muslims are not banned — just a few millions are.
But it is okay to call terrorism carried out by a Muslim, “Muslim Terrorism”, even though over 99% of the Muslims do not commit terrorism?
Even worse, it’s okay to call it “Islamic Terrorism”, even though the Islam of over 99% of Muslims does not condone it?
“Nearly every word of this executive order has changed meaning. Even what the word “entry” means is up in the air.What does the word immigrant mean? It’s not clear from the order. What does it mean to be from one of these countries? ”
Currently, there are over 50 lawsuits pending against the order.
and remember, The current administration is “merely ” exploiting/enhancing” current vetting polices..
Also remember,
murder, is “signature strike”
and victims are “nodes” and “collateral damage
and kidnapping is “rendition “
People from the banned countries just happen to be Muslims. They would have banned even if they were Buddhists or some other strange religion. The reason for banning them is that they are coming here and taking away a lot of jobs that President Trump has promised to provide. He cannot keep his promise if all those folks who flock here due to self-created hunger continue to do so while he is getting the lousy multinational companies here to keep jobs right here. That’s the real reason. Terrorism can be easily controlled by a lot of other means, and as many people have pointed out, the countries in the list have never contributed to any terrorist activity here. But he cannot tell everyone that such a drastic measure is to safeguard jobs; hence the diversion.
Islamic people are actually very good and God-fearing folks, except the occasional chap who believes he can terrorize others. My Paki neighbor who was a Major General in the Pakistani Army Commando Unit caught some Al Queda chaps and handed them over to us. He makes it a point to invite us every time they have a celebration, and I am pretty sure he did not celebrate 9/11 because that time he was still serving. Even though I dislike him due to BO still I tolerate him for his genial nature.
A lot of Muslims who do not live in the West actually think that more Muslims should be banned.
Their reasoning?
They think that this way, the large pool of talents will either go elsewhere, to the benefit of those countries, or will stay in the Muslim countries, to the benefit of those Muslim countries.
Either way, they feel, America will lose.*
*I’m just the messenger.
I appreciate your sentiments. We are not really short of talents but most of our folks are really lazy. If you don’t give them sufficient work they start living on dole, smoking pot, drinking soda and watching TV from the couch all day long, demonstrate sometimes that their lazy lives matter, and come elections go and vote for Obama. Work will also keep them out of jails. So overall it will be a good thing for everybody.
Other countries, like China, will benefit as Mr. T shapes America in his image.
====
“His administration’s confrontational stance on Iran has undermined liberal voices in that country; his restrictions on immigration from some predominantly Muslim countries have been widely criticized by allies; and his rejection of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal threatens to push countries in the Asia-Pacific region, including Australia, closer to China.”
From https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/world/australia/donald-trump-malcolm-turnbull-refugees.html?_r=0
China has been screwing us for a long time, thanks to Presidents Nixon and Clinton who set them up for success at our expense. All the countries of Africa are very fond of Chinese people though they are now realizing what devious mind lies behind their slanted eyes. So this doesn’t add to oour misery regarding the Chinese people who are still celebrating their New Year.
I am glad to see that you have decided to stick around for a little longer Sufi – I hear you..
No ban. Read the EO and stop regurgitating the ignorant propaganda.
The trick to responding to a comment is to READ it carefully before responding.
Here’s what I said:
What do you think my point was?
“The speed of the volte-face is surprising,” the official added, noting that a reversal of directive in less than a week was “light speed in government.”
Be careful what you wish for. Sowing the seeds of confusion in a very ingrained, highly staffed, supervised and regulated bureaucracy, can be used as a reason to implement simpler, yet more draconian edicts – using the rational that current system “needs” simplification and reform.
We are from the government and we are here to help you.
Concur..
Distract and Manipulate
Many Indian and Israeli folks are coming here with Business Visa and merrily working for a few months, and then are replaced by fresh arrivals with Business Visas. This is total abuse of our visa system and many companies are doing it for their own profit and defeating our President’s noble aim to provide jobs to all the lazy folks here and energize them to make America great again. These visa fraudster companies are serviced by local travel agents who have a database of compliant CBP folks at various airports, and they use only those airports to import the crooked Business Visa applicants.
I think we are going to arrest all the crooked CBP chaps who are letting in these illegal people and may even waterboard them to find out the brains behind this terrible industry.
MORON ALERT !! MORON ALERT !!
AAUUGAH !! AAUUGAHH!!!
Dive !!! Dive !!!~
The guy knows how to run a TV REALITY SHOW
What better resume could you find to front the government of AMERICA ?
To front the government” or change it. Obama promised hope and change we got neither. Trump has in the past, two dynasties destroyed, and will for sure in future give US change. Hope is another thing all together, We the people much seize this for ourselves. By fighting or supporting Trump’s actions You do your country and Constitution a service, stay with it. The 1960s saw such conflict some very hard years were the ill wind eventually blew some good, helped end a war, advance civil rights and reduce for a short time before technological advance and advantage police state like surveillance.
Yeah Fred ,,
You do your country and Constitution a service, stay with it.
yeah, yeah,, I pledge allegiance to the flag ,,,,,etc
GET OFF THE POT,, THE SHIT IS RUNNING OVER
Get my drift ,,,,
Fred
This how it works or violence settles the issues. guess who got the most guns, military, National Guard, policeman. I try to avoid the Four Horsemen when I can, my drift.
BTW : As far as I know No government has ever been changed legally .
Know why ?
It’s against THE LAW !!
Even I am not old enough too remember the last real change administration, FDR. My parents and grandparents saw real change, after the great depression and WWII.
Nothing’s so painfully and immediately obvious as this White House desperately trying to wrap itself in any flag of glory and victory over Muslims it can find, even at an expense of SEAL lives and/or committing new war crimes. It apparently has something to prove to empire’s existing war crimes establishment, those “status quo of the invisible isle.”
I am pleased to see the masses that ignored sedition by Bush and Obama and would have done the same for Hillary raising up to stop or support this directive. At last the Constitution is front in public debated and court actions will yield decisions that will bind the next more popular President. Trump may by his controversial actions be the catalyst to restore a Constitutional Republic by bad example. This was my hope when he was elected. There is a real off chance this was his plan too. If so he is one cleaver SOB, no offense to his dear mother he is a self made man.
Hillary Clinton was a loosing money hungry tramp !! The only reason Donald Trump won is because the old Wall Street Bag Lady was his opponent .
A Roast Beef sandwich would have beat Donald Trump !
Trump beat down two dynasties that had the best money oil policical machines in history. Near sell an adversary short that is almost a sure formula for defeat. Don’t take my word for it ask the Bushes and Clintons.
Look ,
Fred ,,
I stayed out of this one but I think what the DNC ( Deborah Wassermann Schultz , et al ) did to Bernie Sanders was obvious to a lot of voters who usually vote Democrat .
In my town , NYC , Wall Street was going to win and Hillary was a walk here so my non-vote did not matter .
But in Michigan , Ohio , Minnesota , etc. , people also were tired of Wall Street .
Now you have a person whose only credentials are he was born wealthy and ran a TV Reality Show .
It’s a great fit to front the federal government of the united states of America .
Is Donald Trump an Alternative Fact ?
The guy knows how to run a TV REALITY SHOW
What better resume could you find to front the government of AMERICA ?
Are the pathetic rank-and-file DHS staffers “horrified” by the slaughter of Yzidis and Christians by ISIL after the pathetic rank-and-file DHS staffers ignored the Yzidis and Christians because they’re so focused on rushing young Muslim men to safety. Blechhhh!!!!
Hey Dave ,,
TEXAS ?
Shoot man . Move to JERSEY ,,
They sell toilet paper there !
Recycled !!
Comparing Jersey to Texas is like comparing Rosie O’Donnell to the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders.
As usual California has this right. I m embarrassed to say I live in Texas
It’s incredibly frustrating dealing with the evangelical, corrupt, right wing Mutt and Jeff show in Austin. What rock did they find Abbot and Patrick under? OMG. I honestly did not know people like that still existed. California will lead the way in fighting Trump’s ultra right wing agenda. California gives us all hope. Please support #Calexit2019. The west coast leads the way for all of us.
Cal-Exit might look good on paper, but the loss of those 55 electoral votes every four years will cause the US to become permanently Republican.
(Not that I would want to encourage the totally corrupted un-Democratic Party).
One element never discussed in relation to Calexit2019 is the economic benefits derived each year by Californians from the flow of Federal contract dollars. California based corporations received the second highest amount of Federal contract dollars in fiscal 2016 which totaled a whopping $593 billion dollars. California has ranked second to Virginia since 2006.
California’s top ten corporate recipients of Federal Contract Dollars are:
MCKESSON CORPORATION: $8,291,002,430 (70,400 employees)
BECHTEL GROUP INC.: $3,600,828,953 (58,000 employees)
LOCKHEED MARTIN CORPORATION: $3,286,700,393 (126,000 employees)
HEALTH NET INC.: $3,020,424,385 (9,300 employees)
THE BOEING COMPANY: $2,489,288,884 (156,921 employees)
Northrop Grumman Corporation: $2,449,250,981 (65,000 employees)
GENERAL ATOMIC TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION: $2,364,933,771 (11,000 employees)
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: $1,865,600,185 (CalTech 3,900; JPL 5500 emplyess)
LAWRENCE LIVERMORE NATIONAL SECURITY, LLC: $1,479,337,728 (6500 employees)
RAYTHEON COMPANY : $1,266,403,522 (6800 employees)
Although some of the employees listed work outside of California, these ten corporations alone represent roughly 500, 000 jobs. In the wake of California’s succession, will the aforementioned companies remain in California absent the guarantee of Federal contract dollars? Roughly 18,376,600 Californians are gainfully employed and a loss of 500,000 thousand jobs would mean a 3% reduction in the amount of available employment. As these are not the only California based corporations receiving Federal contract dollars, the decline in employment opportunities could be even steeper.
Defense spending in California equals $71 billion dollars and accounts for 350,000 jobs.
.
It’s not a “Muslim Ban.” It’s a six month (and in one case indefinite) ban on entry from 7 small erratic Middle Eastern countries in turmoil.
7 small erratic Middle Eastern countries in turmoil.
All of which have been bombed day and night by the government of AMERICA
Please tell me when the bombings of Iran, Sudan and Somalia commenced. I missed those headlines.
Psst .——-Amerika is on TI’s filter !!!
You’ve got it backwards. It’s a Muslim ban with 1 permanent ban, 6 temporary bans waiting for permanent ban status and numerous other counties on Wait And See mode.
This is a Sufficient Test by the Trump administration on how the courts will handle this. If Trumps ultimately wins in court, he will start placing more Muslim countries on the list.
It’s not too hard to see this one coming.
Sufficient = Sniff.
This is a Sniff test.
Q.E.D.
Yeah,
put it out there and if no complaints just crank the ratchet another click .
When you can’t find the illegals, smack down all those who follow the law instead that you can put your hands on, whenever you like. A bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush.
It perversely encourages illegal immigration… what else is new. The exploiters prefer illegals.
Kind of like gun control… those who abide by paperwork requirements get their firearms confiscated, while the Fast and Furious keep theirs…
One BILLION muslims are allowed to travel to the US. How can you call this a muslim ban? Where were your comments, op eds, demonstrations when Obomba destinated these 7 countries of concern?
Where were the comments, op eds, demonstrations when Obama threw tenthousands bombs on the exact same countries of concern? #hypocrite
“Where were the comments, op eds, demonstrations when Obama threw tenthousands bombs on the exact same countries of concern? #hypocrite”
You’re on a site that calls out the excesses of government and you’re asking this stupid question, one of the few sites that gave Snowden a voice? One quick search on this site will enlighten you. There is also, Democracy Now, the ACLU, Human Rights Watch, Electronic Frontier Foundation and Move On to name a few. You probably don’t visit truly liberal sites or listen to people like Noam Chomsky, so, I understand your ignorance.
The problem is, the right has moved so far to the right that they think corporate Neocons are liberal. Those groups hate liberals and agree with the right’s hawkishness more often than not. There are no Noam Chomskey’s representing liberals in government. Even Sanders have taken the side of Neocons on occasion.
As for the media, they promote the ideas of corporate Neocons, Likud, the GCC and NATO. Liberals have been screaming since Vietnam but no one listens. It’s your fault because most of you hate listening to any voices of reason. Liberals screamed about both Iraq wars but were shouted down as terrorist sympathizers. Many of you are laying the groundwork for the exact same propaganda. You don’t care about liberal opposition. You only asked the question, hoping, there is no documentation of liberal opposition under Obama, so, Trump can have a political excuse for his insanity.
What’s funny, you are right about Obama’s aggressiveness on war and immigration but all you beard from the right was that he was supporting open borders. Immigration is at net zero. Obama spent more on border security than any president and deported more, which got push back from liberals.
there is a big difference between the cases where the people were here on us soil… they are afforded more rights, but the Boston judge was correct in the scope of that case that there was no harm and that no non citizen or non resident is guaranteed any right to enter this country. Clinton banned Angolans, Reagan banned Cubans, Obama banned Iraqis from entering, Carter banned Iranians all thru similar EO’s utilizing Immigration Law 1182(f).
This should show how looney this is:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/former-norway-pm-bondevik-held-washington-dulles-airport-2014-visit-iran
This former Norway PM’s comments are so on-target (the following is from the article, I have never been able to use any HTML tags here) :
Speaking to the TV2 channel, Bondevik expressed further concern about the Trump administration’s tactics. “I understand the fear of terror, but one should not treat entire ethnic groups in such a way,” he said.
“I must admit that I fear the future. There has been a lot of progress over the last 10 years, but this gives great cause for concern, in line with the authoritarian leaders we see controlling other major countries.”
Kjell Magne Bondevik is a member of the Club of Madrid which is an offshoot of the Club of Rome. Yet you will never find the Guardian reporting that fact when citing the Mr Bondevik’s views. The following quote will give you an idea of the nature of those who comprise the Club of Rome:
The Club of Rome and its ideological sister organizations are comprised of former heads of state including Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Mikhail Gorbachev. The club itself is an ardent advocate of global governance and its members subscribe to the belief that the worlds’ power Elite are the product of Nature’s own bias – a certain small percent of the population are born to rule; more plainly, these former rulers think of themselves as a global aristocracy. Possessed of the belief that human nature is comprised of self destructive impulses that, if left unchecked, will eventually lead to its own extinction, these globalist are united in the belief that humanity must be herded by them like sheep. To this end, they have embraced Plato’s concept of a Noble Lie. “A noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly propagated by an elite to maintain social harmony or to advance an agenda.” In devising a strategy to politically unite all peoples under the rule of a single global agency comprised of the elites, the Club of Rome has endeavored since its inception to nurture the perception that mankind is on the very cusp of extinction. As a belief in their catastrophic prognostications is essential to overcoming the traditions that provide the world’s Nation states with discrete cultural identities, the elite have set to the task of inculcating the masses with a set of New World Order sensibilities that, when fully ingested, are designed to cast nativiist sensibilities in the worst possible light.
James Corbett has produced a number of videos that have attempted to provide some insight into the mindset of those who create and comprise globalist organizations like the Club of Rome:
https://www.corbettreport.com/?s=club+of+rome
That is why I prefer Aristoteles (Eidolon). The cave theory of Plato is the foundation of the NWO, and this is all perverse.
Hmm. ..
I’ll take Platonism over soulless empiricism any day.
It’s “SUPER BOWL WEEKEND”
Just watch the YANKS ,,,,they’ll toss more BOMBS
and the crowd will go
MORE ,,, MORE ,,,KILLUM FOR JESUS !!!
According to Wikipedia:
“Plato’s epistemology holds that knowledge of Platonic Ideas is innate, so that learning is the development of ideas buried deep in the soul, often under the midwife-like guidance of an interrogator. … Thus, when an Idea is “learned” it is actually just “recalled.”
More plainly , Plato believed that the essential nature of man was synonymous with soul which existed before birth and was the un-manifest expression of a perfect knowledge of Ideas.
The New World Order crowd are materialists and reductionists. Like Hawkins, they believe that the universe created itself and that nothing exists outside the bounds of itself. In turn, they have endeavored to inculcate modern man with the belief that he is merely the product of a series of natural random occurrences. Modern Psychology has endeavored (at Freud’s insistence) to depict man as nothing more than a “clean slate” at birth (Tabula rasa). The very idea of Anamnesis is anathema to the NWO crowd. The very act of convincing Americans that they are not innately possessed of the capacity to perceive what John Locke referred to as self-evident, universal truth, is essential to undermining their “nativist” belief that founding principles enshrined in the US constitution are not inviolable and subject to interpretation in service to the evolving sensibilities of those who prefer to believe that they were born to rule.
https://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/367/Locke%20DecIndep.htm
As an adjunct to my last post to you, I have always wondered how Plato could profess a belief in the knowledge-infused nature of every soul while simultaneously professing the belief that men are born to serve in just one of four capacities within society – this belief loosely paralleled with Ghandi’s own ideas of reincarnation wherein each person’s role (varna) within Hindu society was determined by birth; however, each man’s “hereditary calling” insinuated no implication of superiority or inferiority as all men were subject to a birth-death-rebirth cycle that was intended to caste them in all roles as a necessary precursor of obtaining spiritual perfection (perfect knowledge of themselves).
Longest. Sentence. Ever.
Untouchable, even.
“a birth-death-rebirth cycle that was intended to caste [sic] them in all roles ”
Nice pun though.
Longest sentence ever? Apparently you have never spent a day in federal prison [tick…………tock].
Interesting. Reminiscent of Tacitus’ account of Nero blaming Christians for the fire of Rome. They were arrested not so much for setting the fire as for their “hatred of mankind”. Let us reflect. And if these clowns feel predestined to lead in some romantic, Napoleonic sense, it is only because we voted them there. Nietzsche would have found it comical that a democratically elected politician could deceive himself into thinking he was an elitist by histrionic default.
What ?
a democratically elected politician ?
Jimmy my son , neither Nietzsche or Lady GaGa would go along with that sort of blatant bullshit !
Nowa Duck named Donald quacked his way to “EL HEFE”
might work !!
Ask Deborah Wassermann Schultz what she thinks . That procedure is tried and proven ,,,No ?
(666) 666-6666.
i dare you.
The link was interesting. I did listen to the entire episode with Dr. Ball. Thanks for posting.
Th for the feedback
@Karl –
please stop replying and leave me alone.
Sorry, no. You are posting comments in an open public forum with the understanding that your views are subject to challenge by other participants. If you want to uncritically post Kjell Magne Bondevik’s opinions then you run the predictable risk of having them challenged. Stop taking such challenges so personally else stop posting altogether if they bother you that much.
P.s. My contrarian positions continuously result in challenges and heinous verbal abuse. Yet I choose provide reasoned arguments to offset those challenges or, in case of accompanying verbal abuse, I simply choose to ignore them.
@Karl –
Sorrry, but what you say is a “challenge” often turns into an overly long diatribe. I DO NOT wish to converse with YOU. Please understand this.
When I post in a public forum, it is for the benefit of all – even when a post is addressed to a single individual; the reasons for this are obvious. In turn, I recognize that I have an obligation to further explain and/or defend those ideas with facts and logic if challenged; it is for this reason that my comments tend to take the form of expositions. However, I understand that there are those who wish to have their posts received uncritically for the purpose of not having to defend against their intended effect. If it is your wish to engage in an exchange of unchallenged ideas that only require a response of a sentence or two, then I suggest that twitter might be a better venue for you. Hell, you can even erase those comments with which you take exception.
If you do not wish to converse with me then I suggest that you simply refrain from doing so. However, I will continue to respond to your posts in a manner that best facilitates a greater understanding of them when the need arises. You remind me of a child who, while swimming in a public pool, complains about getting her hair wet from the predictable activity of those around her.
P.s. I take pointed exception to your use of the term “diatribe” in describing my response to you – I suggest that you look it up before using it again.
@Karl –
Yes, your posts, including the one I’m now (against my better judgment can certainly often be describes as diatribes.
And I will ask again, person to person, for you to LEAVE ME ALONE. I do not wish to read ANYTHING you post, and DO NOT appreciate your replying to me. If you wish to “facilitate” anything, please STOP replying to me to do so. Go bother someone else.
At this point it is you that is bothering me. I understand you concern. Leave it at that.
This is all about “jobs” and very little about radicalism or religion.
Immigrants from the seven banned countries come here and take up all kind of jobs that deprive the real BLM people who need those jobs very badly to get out of food stamp. So President Trump is doing all the Obama voters a favor by banning immigrants. I don’t know why they are all protesting, but I guess it is a cruel fact of life that people for whom you do the most usually turn around to stab you like Brutus.
We have to very soon ban Mexicans, Pakis, Indians, Bangladeshis, Filipino and Chinese people once we have made some jobs available for BLM folks.
You’re a racist. And a moron.
Spot on Typingperson. Not sure if Hercules is being sarcastic or not. Trump’s ban is ‘war on terror’ collective punishment of Muslims from those countries. It’s pure stupidity, but to think this is ‘all about jobs’ as Hercules argues is even dumber than Trump :-D
Hercules certainly knows his Brutus lol.
HERK IS A JERK !!
Now what about those whose visas have been revoked already?
Is there hope for those folks?
“Walks Back” or clarifies? Trump should tell his Executive department employees to ignore Seattle judge, James Robart. Trump will take the heat, civil servants should do as they are directed.
@WOXOF –
Oh now, WHERE have we heard this “just following orders” defense before?
In EVERY war that has ever occurred.
@WOXOF –
And it isn’t always accepted is it?
… directed by law, i think you meant to say.
Seattle judge blocks Trump immigration order
The gauntlet has been thrown. How will the malignant narcissist act?
Poorly! is my guess.
my guess
this is about H1B
people from other countries taking American jobs
microsoft?
wuck findows
The malignant narcissist will react by pointing to an order from a different District Court that he prefers.
The Seattle order was issued after the East coast order.
Apparently, they’ve demonstrated harm.
The order of the orders is irrelevant.
The Boston stay was limited (effectively) to people arriving at Logan. The refusal to extend it is similarly limited. Not withstanding the foregoing, you can be sure Trump & Co. will try to rely upon it, along with whatever else they can marshal, as they appeal the much broader ruling from Seattle.
Don’t expect these guys to simply roll over just for a US District Court order — or five.
Not that I agree with Trump’s executive order, but the Executive branch, as a co-equal branch, is in a unique position when it comes to federal district courts attempting to enjoin nationwide the actions of Executive branch officials, departments or The Orange Emperor.
It is still an open question, depending on circumstances, types of claims/issues being litigated, nature of “the parties” attempting to enjoin (i.e. class vs. individual plaintiffs) . . . it depends. Can a district court’s order be binding everywhere or just in its district? Depends. Can it be enforced outside the district, how and why? It depends. What are the issues surrounding whether it should be appropriate for federal district courts to issue injunctions that have nationwide effect? It depends.
This isn’t a super detailed article on the state of play at present but a good broad strokes sort of intro to some of those various issues/questions:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/nationwide-injunctions-and-lower-federal-courts
And not saying I agree or disagree necessarily with anything Prof. Kent writes, only that he fleshes out some of the relevant issues accurately. IMHO.
You will be disappointed…you should not refer to the Seattle judge as a “malignant narcissist” – not nice.
Lets hope we dont get some really radical muslims sneaking in and causing havok , then you will have the fingernpointed at you saying i told you so.
What executive order specifically calls for a Muslim Ban? Maybe The Intercept’s pseud-journalists should do some research before stirring the pot and giving the Far Right to substantiate calling us Liberaltards. Suggest you change the entire tone of your site so that it is constructive and not destructive. Too many loose cannons give rise to Anarchists who do nothing but make trouble for the rest of us while damaging property and not allowing ALL to have a voice. So cut the crap and get something positive going.
As shown in this article, two Republican Senators are doing what they can to undermine the Trump Presidency and its foreign policy:
http://viableopposition.blogspot.ca/2017/02/interfering-in-ukraine-breach-of-us-law.html
This would appear to be a breach of at least two U.S. laws.
Interesting article. Thank you.
McGoon seems duty-bound to support Nazi coups wherever he can find or foment them.
wouldn’t you have to make the case that these senators were acting against the wishes of the Obama admin given the timing of their visit? and given the fact that McCain and Clinton were on the same page on this matter and that Clinton’s State Department did and said pretty much the same thing as McCain and Graham did and said last month, i think calling it a violation of the Logan Act might be a tough sell.
just look at American fools protest. Oh, emphasis American? i mean religious persons as if the guarantees of religion are more important than the guarantee of life support and habitat. Oh, there is no guarantee of life support and habitat? Oh, just look at Americans not protest the needed guarantee for life support and habitat. While wallstreet robs Americans of productivity and progress, Americans protest everything else. If America does not come first, then religion does. Guess what happens then? Answer the question!!
Yes, if muslim is so great, then why do they leave and why are they not clamoring and fighting to get back home?
People seem to misperceive that in the time of Jesus, the only religion was superstition and demigods. Jesus cast those off and simply protested and advocated for individualism which foundation is the sacredness of life support for liberty and pursuit of happiness – he did NOT advocate religion. But in deniance of life support by the elites and thieves who ran countries, the people became religified in order to attain life support – helping others “of the group”, survival group. This is why today, without the guarantees of life support for all, we have groupification which ALWAYS LEADS TO CONFLICT AND WAR. The founders of the US were aware of this tribalistic trend and intentionally wrote the founding documents to focus on any one individual. E PLURIBUS UNUM.
Meanwhile, America is being invaded by groupees.
Groupification is the opposite of individualism.
The one sure way to make yourself unpopular in the United States
these days is to mention the fact that Christianity and Democracy
have been among the worst disasters to ever befall the human race.
Nonetheless, as all students of history know, Christianity has been
the bloodiest and most destructive religion in the long career of
fanaticism on this planet; although Liberals and Rationalists keep
reminding us of that tragic record of the Religion of Love, few of
them have cared to observe or remember the data on warfare
collected by Harvard sociologist, Prof. Pitrim Sorokin. In Social and
Cultural Dynamics, and other works, Sorokin documents beyond all
doubt that democratic nations have been involved in more imperialistic
wars, and have fought them with greater ferocity, than any other
kinds of governments, from the dawn of civilization to the present.
Oriental despotisms, absolute monarchies, even modern fascist and
communist nations have all had heinous records of tyranny and
general human oppression, but collectively they have been much
less aggressive and war-like than the democracies, from ancient
Athens to modern America.
The blood-thirsty nature of Christianity and Democracy — which
is obvious, psychologically, if one listens even for a few minutes to a
typical speech by Rev. Jerry Falwell or his good friend Ronald
Reagan — is, of course, based on arrogance, megalomania and a deeprooted
sense of total moral superiority to all non-Christian and
non-Democratic peoples. But beyond that, the violent nature of
Christian/Democratic countries is rooted in the singular delusion
shared by both the Religion of Love and the Politics of Liberty. This
delusion is the belief that human beings are born with some sort of
metaphysical “free will” which makes them unique in the animal
kingdom and only slightly less exalted than the gods themselves.
Barb says “in the time of Jesus, the only religion was superstition”
Mud says“Same Old SameOld”
YUK,,yuk,,,,.yuk !!!
Something to do with their wanting to colonize the USA in order to advance Sharia Law rather than assimilating as other legal and illegal immigrants have done in the past.
Because the USA has bombed their countries back to the stone age.
You ignorant moron.
Shocking, the ignorance and idiocy of the American people. P. S. We spend a 5 percent of federal budget on war and military. While no money for health care, education, infrastructure. Catch up.
We spend 25 percent of federal budget on war and military. Autocorrect problem…
57%
if you were looking at a chart that included soc sec, then that chart would be misleading as soc sec is a recirculation system. The remaining entities do not bring in money and are strictly capital outlays.
woops
the link
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/
Losing it there, aren’t you? You need to interpret your rant.
rant?
Jesus was not a christian.
I think we’re getting a preview of what it’s going to be like for patients as they phase out Obamacare. Get ready for big surprises in and out of the doctor’s office and the operating room.
@Wnt –
Oh my… we’re in deep doo-doo for sure.