The more alarmed one is by the Trump administration, the more one should focus on how to fix the systemic, fundamental sickness of the Democratic Party. That Hillary Clinton won the meaningless popular vote on her way to losing to Donald Trump, and that the singular charisma of Barack Obama kept him popular, have enabled many to ignore just how broken and failed the Democrats are as a national political force.
An endless array of stunning statistics can be marshaled to demonstrate the extent of that collapse. But perhaps the most compelling piece of evidence is that even one of the U.S. media’s most stalwart Democratic loyalists, writing in an outlet that is as much of a reliable party organ as the DNC itself, has acknowledged the severity of the destruction. “The Obama years have created a Democratic Party that’s essentially a smoking pile of rubble,” wrote Vox’s Matthew Yglesias after the 2016 debacle, adding that “the story of the 21st-century Democratic Party looks to be overwhelmingly the story of failure.”
A failed, collapsed party cannot form an effective resistance. Trump did not become president and the Republicans do not dominate virtually all levels of government because there is some sort of massive surge in enthusiasm for right-wing extremism. Quite the contrary: This all happened because the Democrats are perceived — with good reason — to be out of touch, artificial, talking points-spouting automatons who serve Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and the agenda of endless war, led by millionaires and funded by oligarchs to do the least amount possible for ordinary, powerless citizens while still keeping their votes.
What drove Bernie Sanders’s remarkably potent challenge to Hillary Clinton was the extreme animosity of huge numbers of Democrats — led by its youngest voters — to the values, practices, and corporatist loyalties of the party’s establishment. Unlike the 2008 Democratic primary war — which was far more vicious and nasty but devoid of any real ideological conflict — the 2016 primary was grounded in important and substantive disputes about what the Democratic Party should be, what principles should guide it, and, most important of all, whose interests it should serve.
That’s why those disputes have not disappeared with the inauguration of Trump, nor should they. It matters a great deal, perhaps more than anything else, who leads the resistance to Trump and what the nature of that opposition is. Everyone knows the popular cliché that insanity means doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes; it illustrates why Democrats cannot continue as is and expect anything other than ongoing impotence and failure. The party’s steadfast refusal to change course even in symbolic ways — We hereby elevate by acclamation Chuck “Wall Street” Schumer and re-install Nancy “I’m a multimillionaire and we are capitalists” Pelosi — bodes very poorly for its future success.
In sum, demanding that one refrain from critiquing the Democratic Party in order to exclusively denounce Trump over and over is akin to demanding that one single-mindedly denounce cancer without worrying about who the treating doctor is or what type of research is being conducted to cure it. Trump happened because the Democrats failed. And he and similar (or worse) phenomena will continue to happen until they are fixed.
The obvious determination of Democratic establishment leaders to follow the same failed and dreary course explains why the race for DNC chair has become so heated. In reality, that position is little more than a functionary role — mostly focused on fundraising and building the party apparatus at the state level — but whoever occupies it does serve as a leading public face of the party.
For the last five years, the face of the DNC was the living, breathing embodiment of everything awful about the party: the sleazy, corrupt corporatist, and centrist hawk Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who — as a result of WikiLeaks’ publication of DNC emails — had to resign in disgrace after she got caught engaging in sustained cheating in order to ensure that Hillary Clinton would be the party’s nominee.
But her disgrace was short-lived: Upon resigning, she was quickly rewarded for her corruption by being named to a high position with the Clinton campaign, as well as having the D.C. establishment Democrats, led by Joe Biden and Clinton herself, support her in vanquishing a Sanders-supported primary challenger for her seat in Congress. As a result of the support from the party establishment (as well as massive funding from corporate and banking interests), she defeated that challenger, Tim Canova, and the nation rejoiced as she returned for her seventh term in Congress.
Wasserman Schultz was replaced as DNC chair on an interim basis by longtime party operative Donna Brazile, who was quickly engulfed by her own scandal when she got caught secretly passing CNN debate questions to the Clinton campaign, then repeatedly lying about it by denying it and insinuating the emails were forged by the Russians. For that misconduct, CNN fired her, as anchor Jake Tapper denounced her cheating as “horrifying” and CNN said it made the network “completely uncomfortable.”
But Brazile continues to this day to run the DNC. Think about that: Her behavior was so unethical, dishonest, and corrupt that Jeff Zucker-led CNN denounced it and publicly disassociated itself from her. But the DNC seems perfectly comfortable having her continue to lead the party until the next chair is chosen.
Perhaps worse than the serial cheating itself was that it was all in service of coronating a candidate who — as many of us tried to warn at the time — all empirical data showed was the most vulnerable to lose to Donald Trump. So the very same people who bear the blame for Trump’s presidency — by cheating to elevate the candidate most likely to lose to him — continue to dominate the Democratic Party. To describe the situation is to demonstrate the urgency of debating and fixing it, rather than ignoring it in the name of talking only about Trump.
Early on in the race for DNC chair, Keith Ellison — the first American Muslim ever elected to the U.S. Congress and an early Sanders supporter who resides on the left wing of the party — emerged as a clear favorite. He racked up endorsements not only from progressives like Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Jesse Jackson but also party stalwarts such as Walter Mondale, John Lewis, and even Schumer himself, who seems to recognize that throwing a few symbolic crumbs to the Sanders wing of the party is strategically wise in light of the enduring bitterness many of them harbor toward the DNC’s behavior and the party’s centrist, neoliberal, pro-war policies.
But then panic erupted among the Democratic establishment. It began when Israeli-American billionaire Haim Saban — the largest single funder of both the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign — smeared Ellison as “an anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual” and said his election “would be a disaster for the relationship between the Jewish community and the Democratic Party.” In the minds of D.C. mavens, you can’t have someone as chair of the DNC who is disliked by billionaire funders. That is the Democratic Party.The knives were then out for Ellison, as operatives began dumping controversial college-age comments about Louis Farrakhan and Israel into the media. The New York Times began running articles with headlines such as “Jewish Groups and Unions Grow Uneasy With Keith Ellison” — a strange headline given that Ellison has been endorsed by multiple unions, including the AFL-CIO, the United Steelworkers, UNITE HERE, and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, among others. Even unpaid parking tickets from the 1990s made an appearance thanks to Democratic slime artists.
The assault on Ellison’s candidacy was formalized when the Obama White House recruited and promised to back one of its loyalists, Labor Secretary Tom Perez. As he did with his endorsement of Wasserman Schultz, Biden made the establishment’s support for Perez official by publicly endorsing him last week.
Perez is a pleasant liberal and loyal party stalwart: Before the first primary vote was cast, he endorsed Clinton over Sanders and became one of her most outspoken surrogates. Despite claiming to be devoted to American workers, he was a loyal supporter of TPP even after Clinton was forced into insincere opposition.
It’s not hard to see why the Obama and Clinton circles want him to run the party instead of Ellison. He’s acceptable to big donors. He has proven himself loyal to the party establishment’s agenda. He is a reliable party operative. And, most importantly of all, he will change nothing of substance: ensuring that the same policies, rhetoric, and factions that have prevailed continue to do so, all while protecting the power base of the same people who have run the party into the ground.
Two recent incidents vividly highlight why Tom Perez so perfectly embodies the Democratic Party status quo. The first occurred two weeks ago, when my colleague Zaid Jilani attended an event where Perez was speaking and politely but repeatedly asked him about Israeli human rights abuses — which had been in the news that week because of new demolitions by the IDF of Palestinian homes, and because Perez had been asked about his views on boycotting Israel as a way of stopping its decadeslong occupation.
With the domination of the Democratic Party by Saban and others looming, just watch how this profile in courage who wants to lead the Democratic Party responded to being asked about his opinions on this matter:
Tom Perez condemned BDS at the DNC Chair Debate so I asked him what he thought about Israeli home demolitions.. pic.twitter.com/8QI8FRVhHl
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) January 21, 2017
An even more illustrative episode occurred late Wednesday. Perez was in Kansas campaigning for votes from county leaders and was asked about the need for the party to retain the support of the Sanders contingent. Perez unexpectedly blurted out a truth that party functionaries to this day steadfastly bury and deny even in the face of the mountain of evidence proving it. This is what Perez said:
We heard loudly and clearly yesterday from Bernie supporters that the process was rigged and it was. And you’ve got to be honest about it. That’s why we need a chair who is transparent.
That’s quite an admission from the party establishment’s own candidate: “The process was rigged.” And he commendably acknowledged how important it is to admit this — “to be honest about it” — because “we need a chair who is transparent.”
But Perez’s commitment to “transparency” and “being honest” had a very short life-span. After his admission predictably caused controversy — with furious Clinton supporters protesting the truth — Perez demonstrated the same leadership qualities that were so evident when Zaid Jilani asked him about Israeli human rights abuses.
He quickly slinked onto Twitter with a series of tweets to retract what he said, claim that he “misspoke” (does anyone know what that word means?), apologize for it, and proclaim Hillary Clinton the fair and rightful winner:
I have been asked by friends about a quote and want to be clear about what I said and that I misspoke.
— Tom Perez (@TomPerez) February 9, 2017
As I've said repeatedly, we can't have a primary process where it is even perceived that a thumb was on the scale.
— Tom Perez (@TomPerez) February 9, 2017
Hillary became our nominee fair and square, and she won more votes in the primary—and general—than her opponents.
— Tom Perez (@TomPerez) February 9, 2017
To ensure there was no mistaking his loyalty oath, he made that last tweet his pinned tweet, ensuring it would sit at the top of his Twitter page. (He also included a couple of scripted, empty banalities about the importance of transparency, objectivity, and “fighting like hell.”)
So in Tom Perez’s conduct, one sees the mentality and posture that has shaped the Democratic Party: a defense of jobs-killing free trade agreements that big corporate funders love; an inability to speak plainly, without desperately clinging to focus-group, talking-points scripts; a petrified fear of addressing controversial issues even (especially) when they involve severe human rights violations by allies; a religious-like commitment never to offend rich donors; and a limitless willingness to publicly abase oneself in pursuit of power by submitting to an apology ritual for having told the truth.
That is the template that has driven the Democratic Party into a ditch so deep and disastrous that even Vox acknowledges it without euphemisms. That is the template that has alienated voters across the country at all levels of elected office and that enabled the Donald Trump presidency. And it is the template that Democratic Party establishment leaders are more determined than ever to protect and further entrench by ensuring that yet another detached, lifeless functionary who embodies it becomes the next face of the party.
One can spend all of one’s time and energy denouncing Donald Trump. But until the systemic causes that gave rise to him are addressed and resolved, those denunciations will do little other than generate social media benefits and flattering applause from those already devoted to opposing him. Focusing on and attempting to counter the fundamental flaws of the Democratic Party is not a distraction from #TheResistance; it is a central priority, a prerequisite for any kind of success.
If all defects that the leadership of democratic party has caused the party to lose elections, it has begs the question of why have the republicans won? The republicans have all the same defects to a much larger degree plus supporting an ideology that the majority of the country disagrees with. Both democrats and republicans lie and are corrupt so the problems withe the democrats losing can’t be attributed to that.
Will Rodgers said, ” I don’t belong to and organized political party, I’m a democrat”. What has changed since the 1930’s.
The ideology of the republicans is held by a minority of Americans but they still win. The republicans know to win they have to be more highly organized, find issues that use fear to energize their voters and get the rich donors that are the benefactors of republican policy to pay for the effort.
The republicans produce victories with campaign tactic like the “Southern Strategies” which sought to appeal to southern conservative, white voters to leave the democrats and join the republicans based on the democrats backing civil rights and desegregation. All the republicans presidents starting with Nixon have relied on white southerners to win.
Lewis Powell authored the blue print the republicans have used since Nixon to popularize conservatism and systematically build up the conservative brand in the US. Conservatives have also been helped by demographics as the wave of baby boomers got older and tended to vote more conservative than in their youth during the 60″s and 70″s.
We have also seen highly organized tactics by the republicans like the “K street project” which was a drive to force more conservatives into lobbying firms and pressure donors to stop funding democratic lobbying efforts.
One of the most effective stratagems we see today was “Redmap” which was a highly organized, comprehensive and well financed plan to work on the state level for the 2010 elections to get more republicans in office so when Congressional districts got drawn republicans could maintain there advantage even though they are the slight minority party in the US. The differential in the number of seats in the house of representatives is directly attributable to that effort. On a national level very few people pay attention to state politics but well funded republican organizations like “ALEC” have no similar democratic operation.
Republicans have also benefited from republicans supported initiatives to reduce controls on campaign spending in the federal government and in the states.
Voters suppression is one of the biggest factors in the nation wide victories of republicans. Purging voter registration lists in Florida and Ohio may have cost Gore and Kerry the presidency. The last three republicans presidential wins have been tiny in terms of the voter differential. Trumps win in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania was a margin of 77,744 votes out of 13,233,376. Those three states which polls had said would go to the democrats barely voted republicans and that gave trump enough electoral college vote to win. That is a a margin of .0061, you would only have to purge 6 out of 1000 voters to win the way trump did.
Voter ID laws may also suppress the vote and republican controlled states have the most voter ID laws and the strictest voter ID laws. Paul Weyrich is famously quoted in 1980 confirming that conservatives know that they lose when more people vote.
The Reagan administration revocation by FCC of the “Fairness Doctrine” led to the rise of irresponsible conservative news organizations that are nothing more than a propaganda outlet for the conservative moment that benefits the republicans that there is no democratic party equivalent.
The real reason we see the democratic party is not so much to do with the problems stated above but the fact that the republicans have found that they can use the better organization and better funding to constantly and bitterly attack the democrats. The democrats being as unorganized as they are cannot find a ways to fight back effectively.
I am not a democrat. Democratic party policies more closely track my personal views than republicans but I find the difference between the two parties not so much of one is right and one is wrong but one is less wrong than the other.
@Glenn Greenwald
Saw your recent interview on TYT Politics regarding the failed Democrats. Comments were made about how Democrats are not changing/doing autopsy on their failure and seems that the protests are somewhat of a distraction.
What seems to be happening IMHO is that the Democrats are trying to ride the coat-tails of the Trump protests. It seems like they have already decided their course of action to be Anti-Trump and nothing else.
The real boogeyman for the party isn’t Trump, it’s actually the Clinton and their loyal Super-Delegate friends who are trying to hold onto power within the DNC.
Great article Glenn. What do you think of the concept of Bernie starting his own party?
Over the years Greenwald’s position has been pretty consistent. He favors change from within the party instead of splitting the party.
I personally believe this is the only way to change the party and get rid of the slimy corporate element. Party leaders or IMHO most leaders refused to accept their own failures.
Thanks Glenn for reporting from reality – one of the few.
Keep it up
I don’t know why you bother ,Glenn. But I am glad that you do.
Let me say that Hilary lost because a lot of Americans haven’t gotten the memo that the economy is great and were unconvinced that she would do anything for them.
Glenn’s message is timely in that there are mid term elections Next Year!!!!!!
Another screed denouncing the wrong without even mentioning why this wrong is allowed.
Year after year after year and you’re no closer to solving the problem.
You stupid fucks. You will never fix anything until you remove the primary source of all corruption.
Stop allowing your leaders to be bribed. Make it a crime to ever give a politician a single penny. Ban all form of campaign contributions.
It really is that simple. And yet year after year, you fail to even acknowledge this fundamental truth.
“Democrats’ Flaws Urgently Need Attention?”
No. Your stupidity is what needs attention. You will never reform the Democratic party, or solve any of the problems of the world, until you first fix the one problem that facilitates all others.
STOP LETTING YOUR POLITICIANS GET BRIBED.
I don’t think you’ll find “one iota” of push-back here on what you’ve said. For example, Greenwald’s April, 2016 article highlights the hypocrisy of the Democrats position on money in politics.
yes we know it’s a problem. how specifically are we supposed to overturn the rigged results of the primaries that delivered clinton the nomination? how are we supposed to get the new york times and the washington post to stop lying? what do you mean “we fail to acknowledge this obvious truth?” for example, is this the first greenwald article you have ever read?
American is blind and denies the obvious. Tom Perez is more concerned about his aspirations than his sense of decency.
How many more Palestinian homes will be demolish before humanity does its job? Do these people have to wait and see? Should they cross their fingers and hope that some Israeli policeman doesn’t come inside their home or place of worship and shoot them for refusing to leave? Israeli law enforcement has not seen fit to protect the Palestinian community. Democracy is not a inaccessible system that is not subject to change. The only social system consistent with this democracy is one that displays full respect for individual rights, yet Israeli group rights have historically been used both to infringe upon the individual rights of the Palestinian people. The future will be molded in the arena of social activism, by individuals willing to
pledge their minds and their efforts to the mission of peace with justice. Tom Perez is not that man.
The way Perez walked away from Jilani’s question, proves he is one of the biggest, bad mannered, ignorant and arrogant gobshites in the western world. No doubt he will be promoting Chelsea as President at the next election.
Pointed in the right direction. However, some interesting points to make:
1. Wasserman Shultz won because her representative area is older, has more Jews who voted overwhelmingly for Clinton and her surrogates in primaries across the country, and because Sanders refused to campaign for him locally by the time the Florida primary ran. (It was after the Democrat’s Convention). There are plenty of interviews Tim gave at the time wondering why Sanders had seemingly abandoned him, after dropping his name in national media and igniting a fund raising storm online. Most people think it is because Sanders agreed to take a lower national profile in opposition to anything the centrist Clinton campaign staked out in return for a positive post-election outcome should he win. (Meaning head committee appointments).
2. Sanders isn’t really addressed too much in this essay. And while its summary approach is welcome, you can’t leave out the enormous impact Sanders had on the Democrats. More even than Nader. He crystallized in a grown up manner ALL of the issues of false alignment and duplicity the Democratic Party suffers from. It’s why hundreds of thousands showed up to see him speak. It was clear to the millions of people who voted for him (47% of the primary voters allowed to vote). Nader, Jackson and Kennedy never came that close.
The term “Berniecrats” is often used to identify the half of the party that is representative of the population (populist) as opposed to the narrow spectrum of elites (aka yuppies) who occupy positions that are enriched by offshoring labor. That’s a big fingerprint to leave behind as demonstration of his impact on the ideology of the party.
Even now, he is the go-to talking head on news networks when they need opposition voice. I’d much rather have that than Schumer or Pelosi. Warren enjoys slightly less authority in the press, mostly because she plays loose with the facts outside of her comfort zone of finance corruption.
3. It would have been worth noting that Obama went out of his way as he was leaving office to use his usual centrist counter-babble as a way of putting a finger on the scale *against* Berniecrats seeking controls in party organizations across the country. Not just pointing out the usual fandom of Ezra Klein, who went out of his way to attack Sanders’ policy positions through the early primary season but remained silent after Hillary adopted many of them.
Still, I would have no problems sharing this link on FB and other media streams as a pointed pill anyone who still wants to vote Democrat needs to swallow.
Trump is needed because it won’t be long before the potus will have to order American citizens to be shot down in the streets and who besides Trump would ever do that? Talk about political reform is a joke at this stage. At least 20 years too late.
Your article of 2/9/17 is about as complete and intellectually satisfying treatise on the severity of the Democratic Party’s corruption and the utter “obliviousness” of its leadership as I have seen.
I know “obliviousness” is not a word but if you want proof of its existence here’s a direct quote from Eric Bauman who is running for CA Democratic Party Chair regarding Clinton’s loss: “None of us saw this coming”! Nothing could be further from the truth of course: a lot of us saw it coming and tried to warn the Party.
Another example of high ranking “obliviousness” is Tom Perez’ describing his Listening Tour as addressing the fact that “many have not heard our message of economic optimism”. Optimism?! How about Economic Honesty? How about acknowledging that the American middle class is dying and with it our Democracy?
Some of us are working very hard to save the Democratic Party. For example, we’re having training for newly elected Delegates to the CA Democratic Party, especially those who became Delegates on Bernie’s mandate to Take Back Our Party. We’re doing this not because it wouldn’t be lovely to Dem-Exit and start anew, but because nothing short of fixing the Party is going to work. Our country and all of its major institutions (Congress, Healthcare, the Fourth Estate (Media), Education, Criminal Justice, Elections, etc.) have been corrupted by what might be called the Billionaire Class. The Democratic Party is one of the richest and most powerful political organizations in the world; there is no scenario in which the plutocratic take-over of our country would somehow skip the Democratic Party. Any new party or group will remain uncorrupted only as long as it has no power or money. But the Democratic Party’s platform and in particular its processes for inclusion are remarkably progressive and are worth saving. Ergo, we need to reign in the Billionaire Class and take back our party. I agree that Trump is not the cause, but a symptom of the problem, but given that Trump appears to be heralding the rise of the first American national fascist movement, dropping out or starting over are not options.
Despite the thousands of people working for change, I am NOT hopeful. Once fascism gets embedded, people get scared and try to stay out of the way rather than affect change. It could be decades before we take back our country. But it doesn’t matter to me that we may not win: our country is going down and we have to fight.
We are preparing a list of reforms needed in the Democratic Party. Top on my list is developing a process by which candidates can actually be held accountable. (I’m writing a paper called “What do Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and Holding Elected Officials Accountable have in common?” — you can guess my answer: they’re all total fantasies.)
Please tell me how I can get copies of your article to distribute at workshops etc. Or can you come and speak? We can get you a big crowd.
Background: I was a Bernie Delegate to the DNC Convention; and I have been a Delegate to the San Diego County and California State Democratic Party for several terms. I am a member of many social, economic and criminal justice groups. I am a Poli Sci major. I’m putting together a training agenda called “The New Unity and the New Diversity”.
Thank you for your work.
Your note is inspiring, wish you very well.
Success has many parents, failure has none. There were many hands that cooked the soup that fed us Trump.
One item, not the only or perhaps the most important one, is that Trump had novelty and passion, while Hillary was old news and tired. I will skip all the issues but candidates who don’t have passion ( have extrovert personalities) and novelty just won’t do it.
Bayh in Indiana was an example of old and cold. So was Feingold when he was cast by the Koch Bros money as a Washington insider, when Johnson was the man from inside the Beltway.
The Dem Senate candidate from Missouri was the type of candidate with money and support would bring the Dems back. It appears he was left out in the cold because….. he wasn’t a Dem insider.
Conclusion: Bernie had the fire and the novelty but the inside game of the insider Dems killed him. He will be too old for the next cycle. So the insider, neo liberal Dems will not bring the party back with attempts to build a coalition of groups concerned about rights. Toss the computers, get real!
just say #notom
Great article.
“Trump happened because the Democrats failed.”
Yes. But not just because.
Add “The Media,” which utterly failed to filter out bias in their reporting, failed to even see bias in their reporting; aired Trump’s speeches in full all the time with nary any commentary; gave cover to all of Clinton’s detractor’s claims no matter how lame or even untrue — over and over and over; failed to cover nay of Trump’s well-documented history of malfeasances; gave Trump surrogates free rein to continually make falsehoods that were never challenged; and more failures… The Media did perhaps more to elect Trump than Democratic failures.
Add the “Anybody but Hillary” Democrats. Yes, they are part of the Democratic Failure. They were not just criticizing, they were hateful, absolutists that harmed the democratic election process as a whole.
Add the Democrats who, though exposed legitimate and true “errors” Clinton made demonstrating that she really did have power grabbing in mind, taking the “registered Democrat” folks for granted, but who never even tried to produce ideas and suggestions for ways to keep the Democratic party from being too lazy on one hand and from imploding by the other.
Where were the Democratic/Liberal/Progressives writing about how to take the helm of the Democratic movement?
Add James Comey.
Of course, the two Democrats that really failed were Hillary Clinton and President Obama, who, when “They went low,” did not “go high.”
Toward the end of the campaigning these two moved from talking about Democratic ideas/ideals and started talking down Donald Trump in all their speeches. Democratic TV spots were all “Trump, Trump, Trump and Trump is a horrible person.”
They attacked his character — which is always a stupid thing to do. Had the attacked his record, Clinton might have just won.
And not the least is the real, deliberate, and deplorable Republican vote suppressions tactics that the Media — as usual — completely ignored. Ever hear anything about Crosscheck? Not from the TV.
Many people are to blame. Many people could have tried harder though.
Those who knew Trump would be a disaster yet continually wrote tens of thousands of words more against Clinton than Trump have much to answer for.
look, the media was mostly biased against trump, see the coverage by the nyt, the washington post and the guardian for numerous examples. and no, it’s not the fault of sanders supporters. give us a democrat to vote for next time, unless you want more trump.
I think you’re being a bit simplistic, there. The media was very disapproving of Trump, but they gave him any amount of free publicity. (In fact, the DNC even had a hand in that: according to the leaked e-mails from Podesta, they actively encouraged their media contacts to give Trump extra coverage in hopes that he would be nominated, because they thought he was the weakest candidate and the easiest for Clinton to beat. Google “pied piper strategy” for details.) Meanwhile they refused to cover Sanders at all — I specifically recall one time when one of the networks spent an hour showing Trump’s grounded airplane, instead of a speech Sanders was giving.
If you doubt that “any publicity is good publicity”, consider this: in those early southern-state Democratic primaries, the ones which gave Clinton an early lead over Sanders, exit polls showed that 70 to 80 percent of voters who chose Clinton were choosing her not because they liked her or approved of her stance on issues, but because they recognized her name but hadn’t heard of Sanders. (And yes, this was deliberate — the order of the primaries was something the Schultz-led DNC designed to try and head off any competition for Clinton.)
i didn’t say anything about sanders; the media, working in concert with the clinton campaign, smeared him at every point in the campaign. i think the wapo published 16 negative stories in one day (maybe it was 13, i’m going from memory). they also published a wealth of laudatory clinton articles, both during the primary and the general. indeed, sanders supporters were told they weren’t needed after the nomination of clinton. turns out they were.
Rhymin’ the times:
I won’t eat my peas.
Nosiree.
Peas are green and stuff
Ice cream’s never enough.
So give me no peas,
Oh sirs, please.
I like ice cream.
Don’t make me scream.
Don’t give me peas please.
I WANT ICE CREAM, SEE?
Never peas for me!!
Ice cream and cake
Fer heaven’s sake.
I think you must agree
I would even say,
If I may …
Better shit than peas
milton, i’ll settle for avoiding a war with russia. you have to trivialize the concerns about clinton, in order to justify continuing to support the corrupt and dangerous political machine that has taken control of the democratic party, over the corrupt and dangerous (but slightly different) political machine that has run the republican party for the last few decades. a lot of us just can’t do it anymore, and dr seuss rhymes won’t win us back. i’m not going to vote for somebody that wants to destroy the vestiges of the new deal, or won’t fight for the middle and lower classes, or wants to continue the aggressive and extremely dangerous games of empire pursued by both republicans and democrats–socializing the risk to all of us, but profiting privately. I’ll support somebody that treats snowden and manning as heroes, and aggressively fights the fossil fuel companies to mitigate climate change and move to renewable energy. the only candidate that came close to that is sanders, and clinton cheated him in the primaries.
pedinska said it better than i could, a couple of days ago, in one of her replies to you. i don’t want to argue with you, either; i’ll try not to get short with you, because i know you’re sincere.
I appreciate your tone. My previous post — Suessified — only makes the point that Donald Trump is so much worse than Clinton, it’s truly agonizing to listen to these very childlike discussions led by GG. How can anyone put the two of them side by side and shrug, “comme ci, comme ça” (“comme ci, comme ca”)? It’s preposterous to the point of bizarre.
Let my offer three simple propositions that I think are objectively indisputable yet entirely ignored in this nonsense of equivalent evils.
1. Republican run against government. They slander, fabricate and bluster not for policy but for power. (I can list dozens of examples — from Willie Horton to Obama’s birth certificate.
But why? I’ve already made this argument several times and it’s generally ignored because it doesn’t fit the orthodox argument that both parties are the same.
Both parties march through the same terrain, sure. Both are composed of fools, clowns, miscreants, and liars. For one politician to call another a liar is about the same as clowns spraying each other with seltzer bottles. But that doesn’t mean all people with a political point of view are fools, clowns, miscreants and liars. This assumption is childish, wrong and — as we see — dangerous.
2. Clinton is not the warmonger participants on this site make her out to be.
She’s faced with a political problem similar to Obama’s undeniable political problem (his race). Her gender, her party and her opponents (authoritarians) demand that she must appear more muscular — because equally muscular is a push. Remember, same terrain.
In fact while the authoritarians (and Israeli rightwing) clamored for war with Iran, she organized — through diplomacy — a peaceful alternative. Whether you approve of the treaty or not, NO WAR. Same in Libya. No invasion, no occupation, no ground, no US exceptionalism, and with UN and NATO agreement. Yet her blundering smart-ass comment “we came, we saw, he died” is repeated as proof of her blood thirstiness. Meanwhile, her political enemies (not opponents, enemies) pissed off by no war with Iran, (and who cheered the invasion of Iraq relentlessly) use this one bit of blubbering stupidity to mark her as a warmonger.
Meanwhile, of course, her opponents ignore Trump’s sincere comment — “I love war” combined with his belligerent strategy that killing civilians is a great idea for fighting terrorism — while they jabber about the Deep State, Putin’s benevolence, and the evil US.
Truth would be a nice alternative to these dyspeptic adolescents with their screaming hormones “I HATE YOU!! I HATE EVERYTHING! WHY WAS I BORN!! YOU’RE ALL NAZIS.” And with a Cheshire Cat grin an actual fascist tiptoes past the media by calling them liars and frauds.
Yes, the US is the largest military by far. The US is an empire in every sense of the word. I don’t disagree … and I’ve marched in my share of protests stretching back to Vietnam. So why put a self-declared nutjob and Putin acolyte in charge of this?? Sure, you may avoid war with Russia (actually I think that’s wrong too) … but what about the rest of the world?
3. Mr. Greenwald is wrong about many things. Nobody is a perfect messiah … especially not in this political universe. To his credit, he often confronts his critics. Further, he is scrupulous in research and building an argument.
Unfortunately most of the comments which follow reiterate his premise. Some are cries for attention. And others have their own agenda. (We all know who belongs in which category)
Thus an almost cult-like dynamic appears where — in my opinion — an open exchange of ideas vanishes like a rock thrown into the ocean. Running feuds marked by projection and snideness not only destroy what could be a valuable opportunity for discussion and learning, many of those who might have something interesting or important or informative to add don’t participate.
Maybe they lurk, maybe they go somewhere else, maybe they just stop caring. I don’t know.
But unless people of good intent don’t wake up quickly, the Bowling Green Massacre won’t be a humorous fiction.
Colossal, you forgot to say HRC lost despite leaked intel of Russian interference, several exual assault claims, on prime time tv, leaked IRS data claiming DT didn’t pay any personal taxes, leaked audio tape of private locker room talk, surreal row Khan vs DT, 100’s of million USD spent on negative advertising and last but not least all-out campaign help from Obamas.
. i dont think so. Hillary felt too good about the wrong things. Too scripted, insincere, didnt need to confess 2 faces to see them. She favored selling the sovereignty of the US to a TPP tribunal. She advocated that women be draftable, catered to wallstreet thieves, didnt seem to mind destroying the environment with fracking and lied and lied more and lied often with her 2 sets of laws. And betrayed Bernie. All that is definitely grounds for divorce.
Sigh…”deplorable”. Couldn’t resist using the word…or is your vocabulary that limited? Deploable. Trailer trash. Goober. Low IQ. Purist Clinton Demcrats seemed to luuuve those words. Those folks who your bunch denigrated in that way were V.O.T.E.R.S…you know, numbers of people? Did you not take math in school?
At one time, the Dems supported the working man. Then, the working man did well for a while, and could afford…a Limousine. Until Bill Clinton, who became the compassionate conservative…http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/25/us/1992-campaign-death-penalty-arkansas-execution-raises-questions-governor-s.html
And your post is exactly why Hillary lost in a nutshell. It completely ignores the fact that she’s a bad politician and has a huge amount of Clinton baggage. I’m not talking about the rightwing nonsense they trump up. Real issues that have never had a proper airing. TPP, the Clinton legacy, her glowing speeches to Wall St, her love of fracking, her disrespect for the Democratic base, her continual service to the powerful at the expense of the many, her disrespect for democracy, and much more.
Yeah, there were other factors in her loss, but her fans refused to see who she is and what a Clinton presidency meant. Most of us wanted “Hope and Change” 8 years ago and got precious little of both. Clinton represented more of the same and that was too much for many people to bear.
Apologies for length, at least it’s not a game theory:
Many Democratic elite politicians and journalists are in complete denial of the fundamental nature of their political problems. Much like the Right sees climate change as cyclical and temporary, Democratic leadership sees no more than a political pendulum that is swinging the other way right now. Such a view has the added advantage of absolving its adherents of any responsibility for the current state of affairs or for offering anything more than minor course corrections as solutions.
Accordingly, as Glenn notes very effectively, the Democratic power structure is seemingly not budging, offering little more than “better messaging.”
It is not only younger people who are moving away from the Democrats.
Having politically-liberal parents steeped in the New Deal politics of their day and having voted for Democrats more than 90% of the time (that figure is probably closer to 100% until the last ten years), it is safe to say I have been a lifetime Democrat up to this point.
While I followed politics closely in the 60’s and 70’s when my general political outlook was being developed, I sort of stepped away in the 80’s and 90’s and only came back with the extremism that took hold in the early Bush 43 years. Since I returned to the political circus when I did, I had missed the Democrats conversion from New Dealism to corporatism. (Matt Stoller has a great piece about this: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/how-democrats-killed-their-populist-soul/504710/ ).
I continued to operate under the assumption that Democrats generally leaned toward New Deal-ish policies for quite some time, likely aided by my tuning in too much to their rhetoric and too little to their legislative votes. The turning point for me against the Democrats was the exclusion of even a narrow public option from Obamacare in 2010, which clearly was the way to go to curb costs for those who needed it the most. This convinced me that if the Democrats couldn’t do it when the political wind was completely at their back, they never would. What pushed me to the cliff was Obama’s Bowles-Simpson nonsense later that year. What convinced me that the Democratic Party was in need of either a 100% overhaul or political death was the stacked-deck nomination of Clinton and its aftermath.
And I’m speaking as one on whom the Democrats could count in their column for decades, AND who mostly escaped the economic teeth of the 2008 crash. I cannot imagine how those who were harmed, who elected Democrats in landslide numbers to fix it, and who were then left behind or worse in favor of the large corporations, must feel.
Yet the Democrats still hem and haw, talk about the need to work with Trump, vote in great numbers for his terrible cabinet nominees, while prominent politicians and pundits continue to belittle critics. Exactly what part of the electorate do they expect will be attracted by this, much less be willing to invest their time and money? Exactly what part of the electorate do they expect to trust them? If the Democratic Party continues along this suicidal path, believing in nothing, offering nothing concrete while placing their fortunes on being the “anti-Trump,” they are about to find out.
for me the final turning point was the way obama went back on promise after promise, failed to prosecute any of the crimes of the previous administration,
and kept appointing conservates (or retaining bush appointees) to crucial posts. even before he took office, his reversal on the fisa court issue was a big warning flag. and when i watched decent, intelligent liberals blindly support him no matter how many bush policies he advanced, i knew i had no party.
I resemble your comment, with the proviso that I’m one of those that did feel the pain of the past forty year decline of the middle and lower classes – while I and many like me also got quite the hammering with the 08′ crash; I lost fifty percent of my savings, adding more debt on top of it in order to try and make it through. “Luckily” I still had a good enough credit rating to become even more beholding to the big banks.
And still I consider myself fortunate compared to many who did lose everything, including their lives, via suicides, lack of medical insurance, etc.
That’s not hyperbole.
Completely abandoned is not too strong a phrase. Over the decades, with help from Democrats, the GOP has cut safety net programs; schooling and many other public services have been farmed out to private industry under the guise of “accountability and savings;” and the banks have become the only public policy makers in town.
We’ve got to end this madness before it ends us.
I thought open borders and H1-Bs to help corporations drive down wages was pretty good, too. I also thought the site of Hillary, Schumer, Obama, et al with their heavily armed bodyguards explaining why the peasants needed to be disarmed worked well at impressing the “irredeemable deplorables” that they should consider voting for anyone but a Democrat. It was loud and clear – peasant lives don’t matter.
I thought the open borders and H1-B programs that permit corporations to drive down wages was pretty good, too – along with the notion of disarming the working people while Hillary, Schumer, Kerry, Obama, et al wander around with heavily armed bodyguards. I mean, since when do the lives of the little people matter except when they are needed to do something for the billionaires?
On Tuesday night on a CNN debate, Bernie Sanders defended robbing taxpayers of several hundred billion more per year to give to his crony ‘health’ mafia for goofballs for fake, marketer-invented disorders. Making it more difficult for Americans laboring under the stranglehold of ACA to scrap together $ needed for actual and infrequent maladies.
And that has…what to do with the column?
Thank you again, Mr. Greewald. Excellent.
I was thinking, Democratic representatives should probably engage people on blogs randomly, even on some rational, conservative blogs. If they are attacked, take in stride. Negative feedback can be valuable information. They have to figure out the politics of the unexpected before venturing into such territory. I think that approach would be much better than twitter.
I know I appreciate it when Glenn chimes in. Although he’s not a rep, his celebrity and status carries weight. It makes the comment section more interesting, forces people not to be mentally lazy or jingoistic with their information.
Why is no one talking about the complete lack of political will shown by the Left over the past 8 years? Do you know that Republicans call their elected officials 10 to 1 over Democrats (until the past week, where we broke all records)? This is not about the weakness of the Democratic Party. It is about the apathy and complacency of mostpeople to the left of center, right up until the sudden emergence of Sanders, which no doubt caught the Democratic Party by surprise. No, they didn’t handle that too well, and they still are struggling to figure out how to channel the sudden explosive demonstration of political will. But the job of a Party is to represent us. We are the ones who have to tell them what to do, and we’ve been doing a lousy, mousy job of that for years and years. Don’t blame the party. Look in the mirror.
Great article GG, thank you.
this “ding dong the demos are dead” business has got me a bit worried
after all, they still control deepstate (well the social services part anyway) PLUS they dominate hollywood, and most yoga studios
everyone still has to deal with them, they are our bosses sometimes and also frequently the person making the coffee drink at starbucks or some other hip bistro where all the cool people hang out
they may not have access to polonium, but they can still sneeze in your cornflakes .. or slow down our progress towards coast-to-coast ecological blight
i for one want to be able to play tennis at the local outdoor rec center without wading through several inches of mine tailings …… NIMBY
if perez wins it is over!
The Republican and Democratic parties compliment one another very well. They set the parameters of our political discussions, which is confined by a narrow consensus that exists between them. They set the agenda together, and stake out two positions, one for the R’s to follow and another for the D’s. Anything outside of that narrow range is taboo. They do not tolerate competition and monopolize north of 90% of the vote in any given election.
The Reps and Dems also do a good job of removing anything their money men object to in legislation. Conversely, if there is something that they can add which will benefit their donors, they will not hesitate to add it even though it is a big middle finger raised in the face of the voting public. Basically no law will get passed until the money men are quite satisfied that it enhances their power and privilege. No consideration is given towards the many people at whose expense those powers and privileges are bestowed upon a select few.
I wish more people would wake up to the fact that the United States is, at it’s most basic level, the business interests of extremely evil men. We do not have 2 parties and have not for quite some time. Any differences between them are there by design. Meaningful change is impossible so long as the parasite parties remain intact. What we have is a government of the wealthy, by the wealthy and for the wealthy, where peon citizens get to have a rooting interest in which set of hucksters is going to have them over a barrel for the next 4 years.
Great article. Like other readers I feel like a new party might need to be formed—the corruption is like bed bugs in the democratic party. But holding out for an Ellison reform. If it doesn’t happen, time to burn the house.
Totally agree. The Dems may be beyond saving, but that doesn’t mean America is. Have you heard of the attempt to draftbernie.org into a new party?
Perez was being vetted to be Hillary’s VP. Why would anyone think he will be a more transparent DNC chair? Already he is back pedaling his honest comments to Kansas by using Hillary’s favorite word, I “misspoke” . Hillary never tells a lie, she misspeaks. The Democrats are hoping everyone has a shortterm memory with regards to the rigging of the primary and the cheating by Brazile. They showed their true colors, they are no different from the other corporate, wall st loving, party. Stop calling us progressive democrats, I’ve dropped the word “democrat”. It would be refreshing to have politicians tell the truth, with no spin, instead of being mugwumps on a fence.
Let the Democratic Party die. (More accurately, put the dumb beast out of its misery.) Work for a **real** Left Populist party.
I voted for Hillary, certainly not with glee but I didn’t have the opportunity to vote for Bernie, the candidate who probably could have beaten the orange nightmare.
My reasoning in considering my 2 choices was that at least Hillary was sane and perhaps less vile than the alternative. That doesn’t mean I didn’t condemn some of her abuses of power but the alternative, to me, was even worse. Yes, with Hillary, I know we would have had but a few crumbs of alleged
democratic benefits thrown to us. I guess I just thought Trump was capable of
unbelievable horrors to not just us but the world as well and I still have that belief. I believe the democrats must get back to their roots or they will remain losers. The only difference between the democrats and republicans is the degree of their vileness and I still believe the republicans are the most vile. I’ll give them credit for one thing though – they are right out there with their selfishness, greed and lack of empathy for those of us who are not millionaires/billionaires. The corporate democrats are not as sincere as to who they are and who they are really looking out for – it for the most part isn’t us. Their are no more FDRs, JFKs, and that ilk in the democratic party, other than perhaps a few, with the exception of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders (who is an independent). I don’t know where this country is headed but as of now it looks pretty dark. The only way I can see the democrats becoming democrats again is if they have the guts to see their own reality in every way and get back to what they are supposed to be. If Trump is able to blow the whole 2 party system up, and perhaps if anyone can do it is him – if we survive the blow up – what will happen to the U.S.A. and it’s political structures God only knows. We are truly living in ominous times.
Like they say in baseball or golf commentary, you got just about all of that ball. But I replace your term “failure” with “cowardice”.
Greenwald seems to royally miss the point. There are no good democrats. The democrats and the repuglicans are both the party of american fascism. Both derive their power from militarism and corporatism.
SOUNDTRACK to our Age:-
Background Noise of Glenn Greenwald & David Miranda’s
multiple barking, howling, yelping, squealing, & yodeling dogs.
Cf. Jordan Chariton’s recent interviews with GG @ TYT Politics @ YouTube.
What Social Democracy Delivers:
No one has yet figured out how “Free Marketers” like Cruz can support Trump who already demonstrates he’s willing to directly interfere with free markets, picking and naming winners and losers via tweet storms against private companies and making active, interventionist moves to “punish companies” and demand they comply with his personal agenda in order to “save jobs”. Had any Democrat made similar moves the right would be on camera with pitchforks and torches demanding an end to the “liberal” idea that partisan government knows whats best for free enterprise. That Democrats won’t even play opposition to make the point that Trump is not only interfering, he’s really bad at it is puzzling but not unexpected. Not only have Democrats lost the ability to speak the language of the left, they won’t call out the right by effectively speaking the language of the right in order to divide it. They’d rather keep aiming “friendly fire” at their own voters.
Well, yes, “Democrats are perceived — with good reason — to be out of touch, artificial, talking points-spouting automatons who serve Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and the agenda of endless war, led by millionaires and funded by oligarchs to do the least amount possible for ordinary, powerless citizens while still keeping their votes.” Of course, and that isn’t just the perception, it’s reality. However, the Repubs are described even more accurately by that sentence; the “choice” is only allowed to be between the repugnant Dems and the even more repugnant Repubs. The real power insiders of the Dems know what’s going on, why they get their asses kicked by a party whose major policies are uniformly disliked by the majority, and decided to adopt the opposition’s methods, only they don’t have the money or organization provided by the Kochtopus et al. And won’t have.
So I want to reiterate a point made earlier: want to know how we got here? Get and read Jane Mayer’s “Dark Money” (with the 2017 preface). The only solution is people power, as control by entrenched money can’t be matched by the Dems without they becoming the enemy too. Only when the country becomes ungovernable will the consent of the governed again become the controlling factor.
Yeah, Jane Mayer’s great and the Democratic Party is zombie, but how exactly do we make the US ‘ungovernable’?
“the Democrats are perceived — with good reason — to be out of touch, artificial, talking points-spouting automatons who serve Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and the agenda of endless war, led by millionaires and funded by oligarchs to do the least amount possible for ordinary, powerless citizens while still keeping their votes.”
Meanwhile, the Rs were perceived to be out of touch, artificial, talking points-spouting automatons who serve Wall Street, Big Oil, and the agenda of endless war, led by millionaires and funded by oligarchs to do the least amount possible for ordinary, powerless citizens while still keeping their votes.
It’s a good thing we have freedom of choice.
Have you ever heard of the phenomenon of “Good Cop, Bad Cop”? The Bad Cop comes in and snarls and threatens and perhaps roughs up the suspect, demanding a confession (or whatever). Then the Good Cop comes in when the Bad Cop leaves, and he’s nice. He puts his arm around the suspect’s shoulder, and gives him a glass of water, asks about his family. After a while the Good Cop leaves, and the Bad Cop comes in and starts in again. Finally, his shift is over and the Good Cop comes back in. The Good Cop says: “I don’t like what the Bad Cop does, but I have no control over him. If only you would confess, then you wouldn’t have to deal with him any more. I’ll make sure you don’t suffer.” Often, the suspect will confess — sometimes even make stuff up — just to get away from the Bad Cop, because he thinks the Good Cop will protect him. And the suspect gets screwed, because the Good Cop was lying, and the Bad Cop was just acting.
Of course, neither the Good Cop nor the Bad Cop is really the prisoner’s friend. Usually, the Good Cop and the Bad Cop take turns playing those roles — when the next suspect is brought in, the former Good Cop becomes the Bad Cop, snarling and threatening, and the former Bad Cop is suddenly all concerned. It’s all a game, in which the Good Cop and the Bad Cop are on the same side, along with the rest of the police (who are by definition Bad Cops if they let this go on) against pretty much all the rest of society.
The Democrats are our Good Cops. They tell us: we don’t *want* to curtail your civil liberties, we don’t *want* to have regulatory capture, we don’t *want* the rich to get rich and the grindingly poor to die, it’s all the fault of the Republicans, those Bad Cops. Vote for us, and we’ll keep you safe from the Bad Cops. Then the Democrats get into office, and somehow we get policies and actions which look suspiciously like what the Republicans want, only a little slower and performed with a certain amount of finesse. And if you ask the Good Cops why this happens, they shrug and say “the Republicans made us do it”. They aren’t on our side, any more than the Good Cop is on the suspect’s side.
When they use “misspoke” it means either they were lying and got caught or told the truth and got caught because it was too true.
I want to give a standing ovation to Zaid for chasing that scumbag Perez out the door!
I have watched that on twitter many times because I enjoy Zaid’s discomforting of Power so very much.
Perez is complicit with the SKDK cabal that has corrupted our elections, media, economy, and the DNC, and was behind the Wasserman-Schultz campaign to push Bernie out of the primary and other revealed and unrevealed corrupt activities that handed the presidency to Donald Trump. You’ll find info on how Perez exempted SKDK’s financial fraud criminal from his Department of Labor ethics ruling before being repaid by SKDK with media blasts and political capital that led to his possible replacement of SKDK’s other DNC head shills in this section of our online book: http://www.amodernquest.com/chapter2sobook.html#perez
Spot on Glenn. Thank you for another insightful analysis.
Thanks for this GG. ThinkProgress ran a total puff piece on Perez yesterday. Now questioning their funding.
Communete
slightly [edited] for clarity
[I] Support[ed Trump] a[s a] candidate because he wants to make all [Americans] serfs, and because his crazy hair cuts a distinctive silhouette[.] [He] is a form of personality cult indistinguishable from that of [other dictators from] years earlier.
The Politics of the Possible: 150 Federal Prosecutors Denounce Trumps Muslim Ban
Stingrays Provide FBI NSA Informal Federal “Oversight” for members of the Congressional Committees Providing Formal Oversight of the FBI NSA , Hampton Homeowners, Gun Owners, Anti War Activists and Intercept Readers.
“A New Frontier in Police Surveillance”
Featuring Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), Chairman, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform; Elijah E. Cummings (D-MD), Ranking Member, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform; Adam Bates, Policy Analyst, Cato Institute; moderated by Julian Sanchez, Senior Fellow, Cato Institute.
https://www.cato.org/events/stingrays-new-frontier-police-surveillance
It’s not like the Democratic Party is in total control of its own situation. It’s easy to criticize them after a loss but Democrats have to put up with lots of Republican bullshit that narrows their options considerably. Their voters are being siphoned off via gerrymandering and voter suppression, it’s not surprising that their actions are flailing and panicky. That’s precisely the behavior that Republicans hoped to compel when they started furiously rewriting our election laws.
Wow Levi
this makes me less inclined to want to vote for Democrats. If they are so weak.
Also this is not Monday morning QB,ing. This is not A loss, this is losing on a grand scale over a long time. I am 56 years old and most of my adult like Democrats have been playing defense.
It took a long time to realize but this is based NOT on Republicans and their tactics (disgusting as they may be) but on a wholesale abandoning of the core values esposed by FDR by the “New Left” after 1968.
If you think this is only a loss, look at the loss of Senate, House and Governorships across the country.
After the trilateral commission findings the Democrats and their leadership agreed that there was too much democracy and that the cure would be to form an elite based solely on social issues. After all, even Democratic elites dont want to live alongside the great unwashed
You know what? The Democratic base doesn’t care about Republican bullshit, and neither do a lot of independent voters. The people who care about Republican bullshit are mostly Republicans. The only reason the Democrats are vulnerable to Republican bullshit is because the Democrats, for the last 30-odd years, have been kicking their base in the teeth and trying to chase Republican voters. That was what the Triangulators — Clinton and crew — told us the party *had* to do, back in the 1990s, when they chased out all the New Deal Democrats and then promptly lost control of Congress, which had been Democratic even under Reagan. They *know* they are kicking the base in the teeth, they *know* the base is staying home in greater and greater numbers, and they don’t *care*. Schumer famously said: “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” That has been the plan of the Clintons and their sycophants (like Rahm Emmanuel) all along. It doesn’t work. It has been a failure since the 1990s.
There’s a new generation of voters out there. They aren’t scared by the term “socialism”. (Maybe because the Republicans use it on every single Democratic candidate, and are clearly unaware of what the word means.) They aren’t alienated if Fox News attacks the Democrats — but they *are* alienated if the Democrats tell them to sit down and shut up and let the Democrats act like Republicans, which the Democrats have been doing consistently since 2009. You wonder why all those young people who were so enthusiastic for Bernie didn’t turn out for Clinton? It’s because Clinton told them to sit down and shut up and let her be pro-war, pro-banks, pro-fossil-fuels, just in general a quieter version of a Republican.
http://twoplustwoequals7.blogspot.com/2016/11/da-mic-drop-austin-teebore-gorton.html
People are tired of the guys who spout fucked-up and incoherent messages, so they voted for Trump.
That makes sense. I myself am tired of this persistent,pesky cough I’ve got so I voted for the bubonic plague.
that’s the problem, lung cancer is being misidentified as a persistent, pesky cough. people choosing between lung cancer and bubonic plague may reasonably disagree over which is the lote. but know what you’re voting for.
Varying definitions of “misspoke”:
Normal usage – to have accidentally expressed oneself unclearly or inaccurately.
Corporate Democratic usage – to inadvertently tell the truth, thus letting people know what one really thinks about a subject. Especially when caught telling a fact that offends one’s donors or the party hierarchy.
Trump administration usage – Yes, you stupid fuck, I flat out lied to your face. I don’t care how obvious it was or how much proof you have that it was an intentional lie. Of course it was intentional, you dumb motherfucker. But I’m now telling you I misspoke and you’re going to believe me or I’ll crush you like the worm you are.
And fuck you, I’ll do it again whenever it suits me. Probably at least 3 more times in my next 2 sentences.
The Intercept really needs to build a ‘Like’ button into the comments.
Great definitions! ;)
:)
I apologize for the all-caps, I’m pasting from a blog and it’s so true.
Trump’s MAIN mission, if I may use caps myself, was to block horrible Hillary and her bizarre, repulsively disgusting entourage – think of it: her rapist husband, pervert Weiner, lying Brazile, corrupt to the core Schultz, menstrual-blood-drinking Podesta – from re-occupying the White House. And it’s MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
Trump’s secondary assignment is to DESTROY the 2-party system which sucks the life off America and turns politics into a profitable dog and pony show – Hillary was playing “the bearded lady”. People’s REPRESENTATIVES should be accountable to the people and ONLY to the people who elected them not to some party bureaucracy or wealthy Israel-loving ‘donors’.
It’s interesting the Mr. Greenwald hopes that the Demo party can be ‘fixed’. Of course it can’t. It is naive to believe, and I suspect that his belief is totally sincere that a corrupt organization that corrupts in order to acquire and wield ‘power’ will ever transform itself into some transparent, well-meaning, patriotic force, leading the grateful nation on the path to eternal and perfect collective Nirvana. They can’t because they are despicable jackals and hyenas, feeding off normal people’s dreams, wealth and bodily fluids (see Podesta).
Trump may be able to cause the temporary collapse of the 2-party system but that remains to be seen. Hopefully and, yes, it is hope against hope, he would apply the the RICO statutes to both ‘major’ parties and throw practically everyone in prison or in front of a firing squad but the odds for such a thing happening are near-zero.
“It’s interesting the Mr. Greenwald hopes that the Demo party can be ‘fixed’. Of course it can’t. It is naive to believe, and I suspect that his belief is totally sincere that a corrupt organization that corrupts in order to acquire and wield ‘power’ will ever transform itself into some transparent, well-meaning, patriotic force, leading the grateful nation on the path to eternal and perfect collective Nirvana. They can’t because they are despicable jackals and hyenas, feeding off normal people’s dreams, wealth and bodily fluids (see Podesta).”
I agree with all of this. Thank you for saying it.
You agree that John Podesta drinks menstrual blood and otherwise feeds off people’s bodily fluids? This something that needed to be said?
Artistic license, Mona. Widely relied upon by both sides to wretched limits of retch. Check Twitter for confirmation.
Are you familiar with Arth’s output? “Artistic license” is not something he does. Rather, posting outre claims is.
Mona dear,
Try using some ‘intelligence’ IF you possess any if you wish to engage in discussions or debates. So far, you do one thing and one thing only when engaging anyone who disagrees with your fantasies: you assign them a label and then you call them ‘names’. I admit that it can be entertaining for a short while, then it gets boring. Then it gets even more boring. And so on.
Seriously, where is all this blind and all-consuming hatred coming from? Are you taking steps to overcome it? :) Some of us here are willing to help. I know that I am one of them.
You are not anyone with whom I would engage in substantive debate. You’ve revealed yourself to be a foul bigot who endorses all manner of bizarro claims. As i said, you do not do “artistic license.” It’s far more likely in your case that you literally claim John Podesta drinks menstrual blood.
I am sorry but, yes. You do need help. Are you taking some ‘aggression hormones’ possibly to help grow facial hair. What is it that makes you so hateful and so angry?
And… what can you do? Wikileaks, Putin… Can’t do with them, can’t do without them. And Podesta, apparently, can’t do without…
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/spirit-cooking-explained-satanic-ritual-or-fun-dinner.html
Oh… and looky here? Or don’t looky because you will see the picture of an actual dead victim of Jeffrey Dahmer and then its near-exact replica as a sculpture, the piece de resistance in Tony Podesta’s home. The 2 Podestas are big art lovers, clearly. I would have been difficult for Hillary to pick a more bizarre person to run her successful presidential campaign.
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5bciwu/john_podestas_brother_tony_podesta_has_a_statue/?st=iz088w6h&sh=d57365d6
bh2 — you catching this? Arth is quite serious about this craziness.
Seriously, the Demo party is clearly way off, off the rails. I am not frend of the GOPs either but with koo-koos like: Hillary, Podesta, Weiner, Pelosi, Brazile, Wasserman-whatever, the guy Hillary picked as her VP… as party’s ‘leaders’…
And pushing conspiracy theories involving ‘Putin’ while some of their more demented leaders accusing Russia of invading Korea while another still believes that the current president is a Bush…
Don’t get me wrong, both parties deserve to be crushed into non-existence because ‘parties’ are the ones most responsible for the unbelievable levels of corruption and the insanity currently rampant in DC. And ‘us’ the unwashed masses are to blame as well. An electorate that elected AND REELECTED the likes of Bill Clinton, W Bush and Obama and almost voted Hillary in as the next president very much deserves what it gets.
For the sake of disclosure, since I wrote An electorate that elected AND REELECTED the likes of Bill Clinton, W Bush and Obama
As part of ‘the electorate’ I never voted for Billythegoat or Doublecrap. However I did vote for Obama back in 2008 but I wrote in my dog (a bitch) in 2012 because there was nobody to vote for.
democratic party sucks. podesta is not a blood drinking space vampire. hillary didn’t kill vince foster to preserve the secret of her love nest with janet reno. all of these things can be true at the same time.
That’s quite a fantasy you’ve got going there about Trump. Trump’s chief concern, indeed his only concern, is himself. Do you really not know this by now?
Clearly, Trump has an oversize ego and he is clearly an imperfect person.
I strongly disagree with his current views on Iran – not our enemy but a victim of our obsession with co-dominating the ME with Saudi and Israel. I absolutely disagree with his clear bias and willingness to act as Israel’s lackey. I believe that the swamp-cleaning will have to be a lot more radical than it’s likely to ever be. I believe that Snowden, Manning and Assange deserve honors and medals (not pardons). And I suspect that his ‘working’ with the GOP’s will, by necessity, corrupt and muddy all the good things, see below. that he is likely to attempt.
However, he happens to be ‘the lesser evil’ because Hillary and Trump seem to agree on all of the above and Hillary’s ‘public positions’ also include idiotic and dangerous views and proposals such as: potentially getting us into a nuke war with Russia by attempting to set a ‘no fly zone’ in Syria, a sovereign country that had officially invited Russia in. Hillary would have further accelerated our race to turn into an even bigger welfare state by importing ever-larger numbers of non-productive ‘refugees’ from cultures that are not compatible with the current prevailing culture in the US – Muslims do NOT assimilate and do not become Americans the way, let’s say, most Asians do. Hillary as president would have brought in unbelievable levels of corruption with various perverts, insane and imbeciles dragging the rest of us into further ruin – if you don’t mind the likes of those Powers, Nuland, Rice aka the harpies of doom igniting more ruinous wars, coups and interventions modeled after what we did in Ukraine, Syria and Libya, amplify those disasters by another order of magnitude and that would be Hillary’s effect on the world. Bringing a women abuser if not rapist like Bill Clinton back into the White House would be shameful, disgusting and demoralizing.
The positive effects of Trump’s administrations are as follows:
– Prevents Hillary from taking office – this is HUGE
– Keeps the Supreme Court within some limits of sanity by appointing conservatives to balance to incapable Looney Tunes and SJWs of Sotomayor kind
– Slows the flood of unwilling to assimilate Muslims currently settling the country. Yes, we did terrible things to Muslims and everyone else who lives in places such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan and we are keeping in power the cross dressing despots of Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar, Jordan and the bloody murderer in power in Egypt but, out of self-preservation, we need to keep these people out because the do hate us.
– There is a remote chance that he will pass a ‘term limits for congress’ amendment to the Constitution.
– He may get us out of NAFTA and rebalance our trade with China. For those who remember the 80′ and 90’s, we USED to have trade surpluses with Mexico and Canada and our trade deficit with China was a tiny fraction of what it is now.
– He might repair our relationship with Russia – yes, a power in decline but also the only country that has the ability to kill us all as we have the ability to obliterate them.
– Some tax and regulation relief, maybe.
– Destroy or cripple the evil 2-party system – yeah, more like a wet dream of mine but you never know.
This is a ‘stream of consciousness’ post so it’s rambling and I am sure I’ve missed a lot, did lots of typos and grammar imprefections but I hope you get the idea.
Oh, and how did I forget: Trump is likely to deport a significant number of illegals. I hope he deports them all because they all did break our laws but the odds are not in his favor. However, I do hope that he deports many violent illegals because, as much as we love the dreaming (lol) illegals – and those employers unwilling to pay minimum wages and provide benefits love them even more – it may not be a bad idea to get rid of as many rapists, drug dealers and murderers as we possibly can.
The DNC and its members, not to mention our representatives are so entrenched that there’s no getting out.
I am embarrassed to have so proudly voted for Bill Clinton and President Obama, twice. The obvious ideological differences I had w the GOP and the Dems spin actually led me to believe they were the party that stood up for the little guy, their actions have proved otherwise.
Our nations government is now so large and entangled with money that there’s no way it can continue in its current form and actually represent the American people.
I’m ashamed to be an American these days. We were once looked to as the guiding light for the rest of the world. What do they see when they look our way now? Embers of a dream long incinerated by the oligarchs that run our once great nation.
The Democratic Party has been swirling around the drain since the party moved to the right with the election of Rancid Ronnie. Cramming H Clinton down the bases throat was the last straw for most people who are sick to death of the corporate democrats who are really moderate republicans. The party has a choice, either chase out the corporate democrats or slowly lose the traditional democratic party base.
As for me I am done with the Democratic Party, I decided long before the election that if the Democratic Party picks another corporate dem for POTUS, I would leave the party and I did. If a democrat wants my vote, they best not only talk the talk but walk the walk, Corporate Dems need not apply.
These are well articulated criticisms but where are the clearly articulated functional goals for the democrats and clear and well defined ideology for the left to adhere to? These criticisms appear as though in a bubble devoid of a highly functioning opposition whose ideology for the most part is united and coherently anti-left and anti-democrat. The democrats could do all things by the letter and still not make significant gains when republicans have no integrity, hypocritically change stance on a dime, change the rules mid-move, and lie, cheat, and steal by any and all means to maintain power and by the way have an active, aggressive, motivated, and semi-cohesive voter base. Republicans great exploitation of every opportunity fairly gained or not seem to always have the democrats playing catch up. Unlimited money in politics pinnacled by Citizens United is unapologetically embraced by the right to which they pay no political penalty. So democrats are expected to play the rules of ideological ethics and purity and not follow suit with the outcome being limited outreach comparatively. Now that would be saintly but only effective if we the complainers do our part and pay attention to issues and not just commercials and chip in out of our pockets when necessary. Sadly that does not happen so the game continues and we get what we pay for. That is a massive obstacle to meaningful progressive change. This article seems to demand perfection from one team while ignoring the flagrant fouls of the other.
I don’t see any ‘expectations of perfection’, it is asking them to meaningfully support the progressive values which have largely defined the Democratic party since the early 1900’s. What Bernie spoke of during the entirety of the election cycle, are extremely moderate viewpoints worldwide. The 3rd way triangulating centrists the DNC has embraced, are why our Democracy is failing, and our peopel are suffering.
The two-party system is only an example of good cop/bad cop currently, while both are working for the monied interests. It is no accident that a Princeton study found that big business interests get their legislation over 90% of the time, while legislation that specifically helps the people passes less than 1% of the time. It doesn’t take many bad actors on the Democratic side to sabotage or succor any particular piece of legislation, or vice-versa.
This is the clearest statement of this problem I have seen. They seem to have learned nothing, except where their funding comes from. It has peen apparent for a long time now that that’s what drives the parties. the congress. the government.
That spigot was all but shut off for anti-globalist candidate Trump, until compromises were made for the introduction of Steve Mnuchin to do some needed fundraising.
They were still outspent 2-1 by Democrats and prevailingly Democratic Wall Street (which also went 2-1 Obama over McCain).
The Ninth court decision, if not overturned, or ignored by POTUS, who has exclusive control of borders, is obviously a juidical overreach and is the most dangerous decision for the future of the US as a aviable entity. NO other country would allow judges to decide which non-citizens can and cannot enter the country.
Ever eaten shrimp cake with lemon balsamic drizzle paired with sparkling water with maybe a hint of grapefruit? Could you imagine following that up with a vanilla bean cheesecake? Wow that sounds amazing. I might try that.
Where are the protests against foreign government interfering to suppress Americans’ First Amendment right of free speech?
From Electronic Intifada, Feb 7, 2017
“Senator Mark Kirk, Republican of Illinois, is leading efforts to legislate against BDS in the US Congress. (Senate Appropriations Committee)
Earlier this week, Senators Mark Kirk (R-IL) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Representatives Robert Dold (R-IL) and Juan Vargas (D-CA) introduced the “Combating BDS Act of 2016” (S.2531 and H.R.4514), bills which seek to authorize state and local governments to divest assets from and prohibit investment in any entity that “engages in a commerce or investment-related boycott, divestment or sanctions activity targeting Israel. Illinois signed into law a bill last year requiring the state to divest from foreign companies that support boycott, divestment or sanctions (BDS). State legislatures in Arizona, California, Florida, Indiana and New York are currently considering similar legislation targeting any US-based or foreign entity that boycotts or divests over concerns about Israel’s human rights record. (Other states are also considering legislation to ban contractors from doing business with the state if they support BDS, another form of anti-BDS legislation not covered by the Combating BDS Act.) Clearly US states — acting under the impetus of the Israeli government, which has branded the BDS movement a strategic threat and is throwing massive amounts of money into an effort to quash the BDS movement — are not waiting for a congressional green light before taking action.”
absolutely
the elected imbeciles pretend to support religious freedom and diversity and yet give israel $38,000,000,000 who murder Palestinians for their land. And then they pretend to be all christian. Perhaps congress, house and senate, is the asylum for persons with multi personality disorders.
Thank you for your clear insight into part of the problem. There are two parties that represent the oligarchs ~ both completely out of touch with “we the people” ~ Thank you for being an exceptional journalist ~ Thank you for your courage to “speak truth to power.”
Kim Anderson. It seems the republicans voter base has no qualms with their party taking money from any source. The democratic base does seem to take issue with the source of funding sadly now required to be even somewhat competitive. Sources of funding and being beholden to corporate and big money interested seem to be the heart of the problem for many of their voter base that caused them to be out of touch or have distracted priorities. This is a conundrum of a democratic politician. Say that you want to run for a major political seat on the democratic side, what would you do to finance that against a well moneyed and politically shielded republican?
Democrats are just not as OVERTLY extremely right-wing. It’s not just OVERT racism, militarism; a measured, reasoned greed to dominate and control – it’s just masked, less and less well. Where were (and are) the Democrats for offing Qadaffi? All those coups worldwide? Sanctioning Israel? Invading Iraq? Blaming bin Laden for everything including taking down the Twin Towers? Torture? Nah, no time for human rights, spines or standing up for real democracy; Hey! Sure we’re gonna tap everybody’s phone! Legislate away States’ Rights! We’ll HELP the Banksters foreclose on everybody’s house – and REWARD THEM! With Parties like Democrats – and Republicans – who needs the Nazi President we have now, and his ride-em-hard posse? Obama (and B. Clinton) candy-coated a whole lotta terrible shit – let’s start with Nafta, Serbia, then move on to Tuesday night Kill-List Meetings and the like. Again, with a party like the Democrats, who needs Republicans – or Nazis?
I am no supporter of Clinton; I do not vote for candidates that are subservient to the banksters. But let’s not whitewash voter suppression by stating that Clinton lost the election or that the troll won it. Neither of those occurred, because this election was rigged, and we know how.
http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=33e4ec877eed6a43863a4a92e&id=3a5e219073&e=8283eff9b8
It would have been an embarrassment to only trounce Trump by a moderate amount.
It was partially rigged, and the Tea Party candidate still eeked past globalist attempts at preventing a fair outcome.
Richard,
If GNU’s not Linux, then neither is that. On the other hand President Obama appeared on Latino national TV and told them how illegal immigrants and legal non-citizen residents could vote for Madame President, by showing up with what looked like a real driver’s license, flashing it and asserting they were citizens. He said he considered anyone here already a citizen, and that the felony would never be found out because his government makes sure not to follow up on such occurences. That’s important because falsely asserting U.S. Citizenship, if found out or admitted, makes one permanently barred to naturalization, and results in deportation proceedings. Some studies have shown that the illegal vote, while short of 8 million, is actually somewhere between 600,000 and two million. I am sure Richard can’t imagine that anyone actually voted for Trump, since he can’t conceive of doing it himself, nor does he know anyone who did. Therefore to him the only possibility is that the results were rigged. The only thing missing from this vast rightwing conspiracy is figuring out how the Russkis masterminded it.
That’s a pile of horseshit. None of that happened.
Ellison still looks pretty strong, maybe the frontrunner for the DNC Chair race. Not sure why there is an assumption that Perez has it in the bag.
Glenn,
Thank you for this. Amazing how refreshing common-sense, obvious truth can be-in a sicko media landscape of USA-first lies and bizarreness.
I am 48, and I’ve thought the 2-party system was broke since I was 18–30 years ago. Even so, I’ve loyally voted Democrat for 30 years. No more. I’m done.
I am a Bernie proponent. I watched the DNC rig the election against him. In favor of warmonger, corrupt Wall-Street and MIC lover Hillary.
I didn’t vote for her. No way in hell.
I will never vote Democrat again. I’m done. Corrupt party of Wall Street and war.
You and I are exactly the same on this.
Me too, except I am 7l but have also felt this since I was, well, maybe early 20s.
Bernie is a warmonger. Bernie voted for every war over which he had influence either to start them or to fund them. See CounterPunch, MintPress, Anti-Media, AlterNet, etc.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-voting-history
The complete and utter collapse of the modern, tribalist Democratic Party should be celebrated as a half-victory by the people of the US.
Unfortunately, there are (or rather were) two major parties.
One down. One to go.
Americans now have a Tea Party president and National Security Council member and Senior Advisor. Republican voters woke up.
(So exactly who co-opted whom?)
Meanwhile, progressives reconfirmed Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Donna Brazile as their movement leaders. You’d think the left would get a clue yet.
Progressives did not reconfirm Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Donna Brazile. Democratic party hacks confirmed those Democratic party hacks.
You won’t understand this, as you think that, e.g., Antonin Scalia was offed by the Illuminati to put a Jew on the Supreme Court. And lots of other deranged nonsense. Reasonable people, however, get the point.
It is virtually impossible to write fiction as deviously absurd as the real thing that the Democrats are putting out The unguarded off-script comment by Perez followed by his sheepish false rewrite of the truth is so wickedly hypocritical that it should cause all reasonable and rational voters to abandon the Democratic Party immediately. However, the masses of Democrats will likely continue to revel in their brainwashed blindness.
They are all so comfortable following this script. They think stupid formulas work. In their minds, it’s only about tweaking the message and delivery. It’s all marketing to them. They have no sincere human connection to anything they do. You do need strategy but it came off sterile, like a checklist based on banal observations devoid of social intellect.
No one believed their embrace of Bernie’s positions was genuine. It was Podesta’s cynical approach to politics, thinking, the people are stupid, easy to manipulate. Their political calculations were right out of Rove’s playbook.
As I watched the election, it infuriated me that these smug, arrogant phonies might win. I saw Trump for the con he was on many issues but at the same time, I wanted him to win, if only to wipe the smug look off their faces. I didn’t want their brand of politics or Neocon/neoliberal governance. I wonder if they truly understand how disgusted people are with them? They’ve managed to become more smarmy and scummier than the GOP. It’s more obvious with Dems because they’re suppose to be the party of the people.
What’s worse, I think many of them come from a culture, which embraces these phony calculations. All they know is fake smiling and kissing ass. They’ve been conditioned to accept that world. For instance, Tom Perez’s reaction to the questions seemed learned. At this point, why wouldn’t he have a natural response to one of the top 10 issues?
Lastly, the media arm for these imbeciles are more infuriating to watch. MSNBC, constantly parroting corporate, Neocon propaganda and HuffPo speaking to the choir, pushing narratives for their bubble.
I’m exhausted thinking about all the forces behind this train wreck. There are too many of them invested in keeping things the same.
I’ve got nothing against the Democratic Party, per se, Glenn … it’s the democrats I can’t stand.
*actually, I don’t care much about partisan politics either, but that’s another story.
#TheResistance will not be televised.
Great article which perfectly articulates everything about the Democratic party that needs changing. Several of my supposedly liberal to progressive friends were routing for Hillary to the point where they were annoyed when I pointed out the corruption I saw in her and in the DNC. They didn’t even know about Donna Brazille cheating and they minimized Hillary’s email debacle and sabotage-by-proxy (DWS) of Bernie’s candidacy. Everyone was so afraid of Trump (which we all were and still are) that they just stopped thinking!
Glenn locked horns today with Politico, which had to issue this:
It’s okay, Mona. Like your NYT, Politico doesn’t have an agenda.
and Greenwald is so neutral?
Greenwald is many things — neutral as between fact and falsehood, or good and evil, are not among them.
Somnus ? Karl
February 2 2017, 5:43 p.m.
I have read posts by Mona, rrheard and you on a regular basis for some time and it is quite clear why the two of them are threatened by you. As attorneys, they both subscribe to a win-at-all-cost philosophy while neither has a moral compass that points true north. They like to present themselves as champions of the underdog while wearing a certain set of enlightened ideals on their sleeve for all to see. Yet they actually see themselves as wolves among sheep and delight in devouring the weak while simultaneously condemning the dog-eat-dog nature of people like Trump. In short, they are both “narcissistic sociopaths” as you have astutely observed on occasion. They have both provided ample evidence that they have total disregard for the feelings and thoughts of others who choose not to worship them and mirror their world view. Most humorous of all they have displayed a pervasive pattern of grandiosity that is so over the top that their very words and actions could be easily misinterpreted as a form of self parody. Ironically, narcissistic sociopaths are possessed of a parasitic mindset that compels them to form attachments to those whose empathy makes them an ideal host.
You, on the other hand, seem to be tragically possessed of a quixotic nature that is compelled to address the worst in human nature – especially in defense of the intellectually weak and/or the emotionally vulnerable – with little hope of success. Which is rather ironic, because you are constantly ranting about groups like Black Lives Matters and the type of identity politics they embrace that purportedly seeks to emphasize the rights of the culturally marginalized over those of the culturally privileged majority. Also ironic is the fact that you always seem compelled to lock horns with those who endeavor to be perceived as being inclusive while viciously attacking those whose ideas do not strictly conform to their own. As someone who is deeply intolerant of hypocrisy, I marvel at the abuse that you have been willing to take in exposing those who live for the opportunity to abuse others in the name of truth, inclusiveness, and multiculturalism. But I am also deeply puzzled… why bother? The world neither begins nor ends with the incessantly obsequious and self aggrandizing drivel espoused by Mona or rrheard. Given that you possess a workable degree of insight into the darker aspects of human nature, I wonder why you do not simply avoid such types for the sake of your own sanity.
@ Indeed
You know nothing about me, and your armchair psychological analysis is pathetically off base.
I don’t subscribe to a win-at-all costs philosophy as an attorney or as a human being. I only like winning ethically, under the rule of law, and on the merits of facts and logically and morally coherent arguments.
Every client I’ve taken in the last three years, I’ve taken either for free or a flat fee under $2,000.
My Oregon State Bar number is 073960. Feel free to log onto its website and check to see if I’ve had any ethical complaints or disciple as an attorney. It also contains my phone number and address. You are free to come discuss any issue you’d like with me in person, non-anonymously, if you have the time and courage. I invite you to come see who I am as a person or as an attorney, in person, any day you’d like Monday through Friday. All I ask is that you call in advance and make an appointment so I can make sure to be in the office.
Totally got me there, the attorney who gives away his work or charges next to nothing sees himself as a total “wolf among sheep” and is all about a “dog-eat-dog” world. You’ve so got me figured out there man. Like totally. You’re almost as good as The Amazing Kreskin.
Again, you should probably let people actually trained to provide legitimate psychological diagnoses do their jobs, instead of trying to do it based on internet comments.
But it is fun watching people like you and Karl engage in your seemingly pathological ability to project your neuroses and disorders onto others.
I on the other hand am an open book who does not feel the need to hide his opinions behind anonymity for any reason.
DSM criteria for narcissism:
I actually think lawyers are well-educated garbage (wo)men. And I see me profession and my role in it accordingly.
I’ve been recognized in school and work a few times and didn’t bother to show up to receive the award. I don’t enjoy that sort of attention. Neither did I attend my college graduation ceremonies (except as an undergrad to watch a friend who asked me to be there, I did not choose to walk or participate instead choosing to be with family and friends having a BBQ).
My legal cases are public records. I am happy to show you my college transcripts and the few workplace or school awards I’ve received.
I have no fantasies, could care less about power, don’t know how one defines brilliance as it manifests differently for people in innumerable ways, I could care less about anyone’s physical appearance and care what kind of human being they are and what they stand for, and I have no “mate”.
My best friends are in the following occupations: postal employee, events planner, teacher, teacher, copywriter, production supervisor, caterer, machinist, loan paperwork processor for small agricultural bank, small pizza place owner, electrician, and three attorneys two of whom were friends before becoming attorneys. The only ones with as much formal education as me are the three attorneys. Two of them don’t even practice law currently. I don’t socialize with any other attorneys, nor have I ever attended a bar social event. I think we all understand each other pretty well given we’ve all been friends between 20 and 30 years. I’m big on loyalty that way.
I in fact require no admiration from human being. I’ve never done anything to warrant admiration, nor would I feel comfortable receiving it if I had.
Like totally, worked since I was 15, put myself through undergrad by working at night for the USPS, and has never made more than $50K in any calendar year in his entire life. Totally an entitled guy.
Pretty sure I’ve never expected or received a “special favor” in my life from anyone. Friends and family have done me many regular favors over the years for which I am incredibly grateful, and that I try and reciprocate in any way I can to them and any others who need help.
My father became paralyzed from the shoulders down when I was five due to an automobile accident. I took assistance from my mother, me and my sister to care for him over the years. I spent the last four years of my mother’s life being her primary caretaker as she succumbed to terminal lung cancer, while being an associate at a law firm. Yeah I’m like totally all about taking advantage of others.
I don’t consider the “needs” or “feelings” of anonymous commenters on the internet. In the real world I’m sensitive the needs and feelings of all human beings even ones I disagree with.
I’d be shocked to find out someone envies my life, and I’m quite convinced I don’t envy any other person’s life except possibly Gandhi or MLK Jr. Envy is like greed, I don’t subscribe to either.
I drink Pabst and like to goof around with my friends, play golf and go fishing or ride my motorcycle. I wear jeans and a sweatshirt most days and only put on a suit when I’m required to be in court or have meetings with clients or opposing counsel. Now I may come across as “arrogant” to certain anonymous individuals being purposefully obtuse on the internet, but generally speaking never in real life.
you threatened to run me over with your chevy celebrity on naito parkway , that’s pretty mental
I drive a Buick Regal which I purchased used. I have never owned a Chevy Celebrity.
I thought you were a moron then, and think you’re a moron now (assuming you are who I think you are although I don’t remember you using the pseudonym Mary Steyr back then, hard to keep track of all the cowards who run their mouths anonymously here, Salon or Guardian over the years).
Having said that, I’d never harm anyone with my car or any other object, assuming that person wasn’t trying to physically harm me.
I only vaguely remember that conversation, but rest assured I wasn’t threatening you seriously and more likely engaging in hyperbole in response to whatever anonymous stupidity you were peddling that day.
You should probably go back to playing with your pals before I start giving your nonsense the sort of rhetorical attention you won’t enjoy.
you’re wound pretty tight for someone with 14 best friends
anyway, i don’t live in pdx anymore so i’m no longer a target of opportunity
Glenn Greenwald’s misspelling is unintentionally funny:
> We hereby elevate by acclimation Chuck “Wall Street” Schumer
I’d like to see more acclaim for those less acclimated to the swamp.
It’s fixed now. (Michael Lane, below, pointed out the spelling issue first.)
I recently watched a C-SPAN “debate” with all the DNC chair candidates. Corporate media hack Joy Reid was running this, which made it even sillier to watch.
When Perez stood up to speak, all of it was in DNC approved soundbites. What he was really saying was this. I’m an Inside the Beltway Power Player who knows to get things done. The rich white people who are currently in charge don’t know s**t. Only 1 other candidate had the courage to say that we lost because the ignorant silly ass white people in charge f*****d it up.
Perez tries to talk a mean game, but he’s fake. In a sense, he’s just like Corey Booker. Booker’s a corporate Democrat taking dug company money while he says that he’s also concerned about saving people’s lives under the ACA. We can’t import Canadian drugs. They’re not safe. Really? Can you name any Canadians OR Americans who’ve died from taking Canadian made drugs? No you can’t. This just proves that Booker is just another power player hustler who only cares about positioning himself to run in 2020.
If Perez wins, the DNC is finished.
The first time I saw that — coming across Twitter — I actually did the LOL thing. Initially, I wondered how stupid he thinks the average person is, but then realized Booker had no remotely plausible reason to give for that vote (given that the truth was a no-go). What else was he going to say?
canadian drugs are not tested on americans and are thus unproven
Except, of course, most “Canadian” drugs are made in and imported from the good ol’ USofA, so what we’re really talking here is reimportation of drugs made in the US back into the US.
Yeah, I registered as an independent after Obama started another bombing campaign in Syria, meanwhile we were (and are) still in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then they went and nominated another Democrat who voted for Iraq…great…well done.
I saw the dysfunction on the ground when I volunteered for a senate campaign only to have the coordinator not show up to the training he’d schedule, and then later for a house campaign to show up for phone banking (which the coordinator had scheduled) only to find them moving offices at the time. I don’t know what happened to the field training over the past six years since I did the job.
DWS resigned in disgrace for “sustained cheating.” Exactly what was the sustained cheating? The WaPo says she, “made sharply disparaging remarks about Sanders and his campaign manager.” Disparaging remarks are not cheating? Cheating requires an act. “Sustained cheating” requires sustained action. What did she do? I would like to know.
DWS was rewarded with “a high position with the Clinton campaign”? She was given an honorary chairmanship, “a position that involves no responsibilities, no employees, no budget, and no duties,” according to Daily Kos and others. Doesn’t sound like a “high position within” the campaign to me.
Always heard Greenwald was this highly credible journalist. Don’t see it here.
I’ve given up on national politics and am involved locally. The way to change the party is from the bottom up. Thanks Glen, for another great article.
Sit-ins, GAs, and drum circles are the way to go.
And Spirit Cooking. Works like a charm.
Checkpoint Charlie Schumer is the leftist (synonym: authoritarian) who wants a “no-ride list” for Amtrak. (Reuters, May 8, 2011)
This is Nancy Pelosi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2O5XxDTF7M
Chuck Schumer is not a leftist. The notion is laughable, as is the case with virtually all of your notions.
Then you can point to one passage from this that reinforces your argument:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Charles_Schumer.htm
Progressives, always pointing fingers away from themselves.
I do not engage you or reply to you for your edification. I do so for other readers. Your views on myriad things are simply bizarre, e.g., that nefarious someones murdered Antonin Scalia to replace him with a Jew.
You are not a reasonable person, in any manner. No reasonable person would consider Schumer a leftist.
the commenting software on this site really blows.
Marvelous column, which made my day. I never pass up an
opportunity to read GG.
Busy around here tonight.
Someone’s probably already mentioned this, but just in case….
https://twitter.com/EFF/status/829858593373507584
The governor of WA was just on local news celebrating the ruling. He responded to Trump’s bleat, ‘see you in court’ with, ‘we just saw you in court and you lost’.
(Melissa McCarthy is my new hero)
They lost in the most liberal Federal court circuit in the nation. Not a big surprise. They probably wanted to lose so that they could get underway to the Supreme Court where the final decision will be made.
The 9th Circuit has not been especially liberal in some time. You’re notion there is dated. Moreover, the district court judge is a Bush 43 appointee and Republican, as is one of the judges on the appellate panel.
It would be utterly extraordinary for SCOTUS to touch it at this stage. They very seldom accept emergency appeals on cases that are still at the pleading stage in the trial court.
And, if they did, it’s pretty hard to imagine that they’d get more than a 4-4 split at best, which would leave the 9th’s ruling intact and leave the case in Seattle.
The Supremes will get their chance, after there’s a fully-developed record. At the moment, it doesn’t look like that record is going to be favorable for the government.
Local Faux News anchors (think Hannity-like character – I’d swear they cloned him) expressed concern over the ruling. His female counter-part asked their guest expert, former US Attorney John McKay, what “should the DOJ do?”
He expressed his concern over Trump dissing the judiciary but the DOJ “needs to review the ruling” and fix the constitutional issues. He’s all-in for the ban once those “issues” are resolved because it’s needed .
The faux fear from we are now not safe as we would have been had the stay been lifted is
straight out of Hermon Goering’s famous little blurb. And the xtians are eating it up.
Jay Sekulow was on Hannity tonight and suggested that Trump should sign a new EO incorporating the changes needed regarding Visa/Green Card holders. The Ninth Circuit would again receive the case and would rule against Trump again but Sekulow believes if the new EO went before the Supreme Court even without Gorsuch it would end up in an 8-0 decision for Trump.
It would be good to have all the lawyers here listen to Sekulow and to weigh in on his thinking.
The Peoples Delegates of the Democratic Party are there for you to helpfully assist a confused proletariat in need of guidance.
We can rebuild him . . we have the technology. We can make him better than he was .. better, stronger, faster!
Great article about corruption in Dem party.
LMAO!
Heard recently that the DNC is trying to get Sanders to turn over his donor list to them.
These idiots don’t get it, do they?
We donated to Bernie because of who he is, what he represents and what we KNOW he’d do if he were President.
That is the same reason that no Sanders donor would EVER give a penny to the DNC.
Bernie Sanders (D-VT) is the unstable candidate that your People’s Delegates helpfully guided you away from.
Guided away so that loser Hillary Clinton could lose. Gotcha — they’re stupid.
Actually, communete, sanders is I-VT, and incredibly stable considering he’s been fighting for the same beliefs since he first ran for office.
Wrong, Ashley. As of 2015, Sanders is by all definitions very much D-VT.
Nope. Sanders put a D after his name to run for president. He’s back to an I.
Our “representative” form of government has failed. The grand experiment started by our forefathers, for all of their flaws, once held promise. Now we wait with bated breath, to see what the corpse of our Republic will do once the flesh of capitalism rots away, leaving behind the bony cage of fascism. Weep for Orc, who once shattered the imperialist spirit. Weep for Orc, who has become Urizen.
“Folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “our democracy,” “our democracy,” “our democracy,” “our democracy, ” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “folks,” “volks,” “fol-….”
Thank you Glenn for your insight. It’s true that this party needs new leadership on all fronts: state, local and national. They need better outreach strategies, or to quote Public Enemy, the people will need to ‘Bumrush The Show!”.
It was Bernie Sanders that made us support Bernie Sanders because he represents the majority of us. Nothing, not even the obscenity in the White House today will ever bring me back to the dems, nor any party at all.
We are currently herded by one party, the war party, the oil party, and the arrogant party all in one disgraceful power over mode.
We have to move into the board rooms and boycott fossil fuel, and do it fast because we are running out of time for the survival of our species. We just don’t have time for this foolishness.
Bernie Sanders (D-VT) is a Democrat. He participated in the DNC primary, he spoke at its convention, and he wholly endorsed its nominee.
Progressives are under a form of cult mind control if they believe otherwise.
Supporting a candidate because he wants to make all the serfs equal, and because his crazy hair cuts a distinctive silhouette, is a form of personality cult indistinguishable from that of O eight years earlier.
You are an idiot.
I’d have to second rrheard. Truly you are an idiot.
This particular idiot ranting about personality cults is a huge fan of this freak. He’s repeatedly promoted the thesis that Satanic-Illuminati are controlling our minds. And oh, he also holds that “they” murdered Antonin Scalia to replace him with a Jew on the Supreme Court.
I have to jump on the bandwagon. You’re an idiot, Communete.
A clear-headed analysis of the symptoms. Let’s move to the prescription. I assume by “fundamental flaws of the Democratic Party” you mean MONEY.
Nothing meaningful will ever happen in our republic until the influence of money is removed from the political system (or at least significantly curtailed). Democrats will never be able to convince voters of their authenticity until they adopt campaign finance reform as their NUMBER 1 platform position.
Remove money as the prime mover for politicians and we might just be able to have a meaningful conversation about health care, climate change, voting rights, prisons, etc.
If Dems can’t/won’t do this, they will just continue to be seen as a slightly more hypocritical version of Republicans. And if Dems give us more of the same, a new (Progressive) party needs to be established. Sanders could do this.
Here’s another excellent article along a similar but related line: https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/02/fake-and-false-and-just-plain-nonsense/
no one left to sell out…..that says it all……dirty politics did the democrats in – all by themselves
Thank you Glenn. Tom Perez is unfit to lead anything so keep hammering away at him and thank Zaid as well who had the guts to confront this Haim Saban whore.
Schumer and Pelosi and the rest of the aging, feeble Dems are so stone deaf they still can’t figure out why Shillary lost. Keith Ellison is our best hope along with Bernie.
Keith Ellison is an anti-Semite, and Bernie is a counter-Party agitator and enemy of the proletariat.
And….you’re delusional.
The Democrats are not doing too bad if you consider that a Democrat who ran as a Republican finally won.
In the Administration too there are a lot of people who can be quite comfortable wearing the Democrat badge. Kellyanne Conway, Rex Tillerson, Ben Carson, etc., are really not Republicans except by association.
The Democratic Party is doomed unless they can get someone who will deliver prosperity and safety to the voters instead of filling up their own fake global initiative coffers. I wonder who is now paying to hear the Clintons download their enormously expensive wisdom and knowledge.
Start a new party now. I can’t say this often enough or loud enough. The Democratic Party [sic] is likely unsalvageable. More to the point, the energy it would take to overcome entrenched apparatchiks in the Democratic Party simply is too expensive to expend given the larger troubles in American society which need that same energy to address. We can’t spare them that kind of time or energy, only to have them inevitably sabotage from within any actual reforms.
I’m not saying putting a new party in place on the ground would be easy; it will be anything but. But an actual left of center political party to push the solutions we all know, solutions that we all know are needed, but that neither existing rightist faction of the two-headed one party system will address is what must happen. Just as Labor left the slumping Liberals in Britain between the Wars to emerge as the driving force of reform after WW II we need an _actual_ party of ECONOMIC and social justice of the time to promote equitable reform. Not just insincere identity crumbs if necessary ones to factions but actual policies that support the largest part of society—including the terrified white working class and ruralistas who need reform as much as anyone but who are blindly flirting with or embracing fascism in the absence of actual reform.
Launch a new party now. The Unity Party: names matter.
Nailed it! Gary Younge came to my hometown because a red state supported Bernie over Hillary in the primaries. Because of spineless democrats, Indiana has been referred to “flyover country”.
I told Gary in our first meeting, “The democrats are out of touch.”
Bernie got it, and the establishment AND the media (including MSNBC) worked against him.
You didn’t pull any punches Glenn, but I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned the disgusting ploy of Obama and our IC in blaming Russia for their misery. As you eloquently summed it up, Obama’s lack of leadership created Trump, but instead of owning it, they concocted a story about Russian hacking and “influencing the election”.
One of the most pathetic displays of leadership I’ve ever witnessed.
The best part is it also destroyed our corporate run media as part of the problem. My friends who are loyal Maddow fans claim she is the beacon of liberal journalism – I’m losing friends for my honesty.
and the MURDER OF SETH RICH needs to be looked into
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
the beneficiaries of his murder had the most to lose
Thanks Glenn for having the fortitude to write this! Persons like yourself keep hope alive for my planet.
the democratic party is a failed state
introducing Tom “the slither” Perez, a proxied whore for billionaires, israel, and certain friends who takes marching orders from a creepy billionaire. Any coincidence he sounds like Rubio?
This spells THE END of the democratic party, now the party of whores for israel wars.
Talleyrand: “They had Learned nothing and forgotten nothing.”
The democrats are finished – as are the republicans and the two-party system. They are unsalvageable. It’s up to third parties if we are to turn things around.
yes.
Yes.
Dont count your chickens before they hatch. Third party candidates totaled less than 6%.
It doesn’t even need to be limited to three, though this would be a good start. Part of the reason for third failure is the fact that the two-party system is never questioned. Most people are imbued with the spoiler idea. And with a faith in our political system that is only now starting to be questioned in a broad way.
The 2 party system has been challenged almost since the beginning of our nation. The list of third party candidates is lengthy. The “spoiler idea” only plays a role when the election is thought to be close. People didn’t not vote for Cynthia McKinney and Bob Barr in the second Obama election because they were afraid of causing Obama to lose the election. Two party systems tend to lend themselves giving the middle of the road point more power, while shutting out radical and extremist points of view. In countries that are set up to allow smaller parties in the government, these smaller parties frequently have power in the gov’t that is greater than would be expected given their support by the voters.
Nancy Pelosi “we are capitalist” really means that she and the other elected officials don’t answer to their constituents, they answer to money. Corporate profits are paramount to everything else so therefor everything is turned into a commody including human life and the natural world. The capitalists will do whatever it takes to hold their positions of power including; lying, cheating, stealing and murder.
To talk about contemporary American elections and not mention the Kochtapus is like talking about colonization and not mentioning genocide. The Koch’s and their network have achieved a truly perverse corporate coup d’etah. If anyone is interested in the Koch brothers and their buying of the US political system check out the book Dark Money by Jane Mayer. Or go here:
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/15884
I understand your take on the democratic party and you know its weaknesses well. However if there isn’t enough faith in the party that places humanitarian values before the party of rampant capitalism, you will lose what little culture we have here in America anyway. So maybe we might not want to tear apart what continuity we can get from the democrats, but with constructive criticism, find the best leaders we can, whatever their party affiliation. There’s nothing like an educated citizen to make America greater than it’s ever been!
Craig Nelsen
slightly [edited] for transparency
[I] enjoy [my] cheap [vices], there, Doc. Trump won because the voters hate [global trade policies and the Elites who forced those policies upon them]. [My] [h]atred of “[truth and facts]” doesn’t [really bother me].
Out of [my own obnoxious behavior here at The Intercept], [Doug Salzmann has been forced to repeatedly] cite [numerous] example[s] of my “racism”.
That Trump was empowered because of the swindle and lying and self deceit of the Democrats is only part of the story. A much greater part deals with the economy which makes American lives a precariat or unnecessariat and of which HRC said that they were the deplorables.
I don’t get this from the articles of the intercept: why do they not state the obvious? People don’t care about Trump or HRC or their crony friends. They care about their lives that are in jeopardy thanks to 30+ years of lying from both the Democrats and the Republicans.
It’s ironic that you make that statement here on Greenwald’s post. It really shows that you don’t actually read his articles and know nothing about what he writes about or cares about. Sad. See below from one of his recent posts.
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/
This is not new from me, I stick by it. $600 – $800 billion in taxes stolen from America and Americans continues to reside off shore in the form of a couple of trillion in profits sent off shore specifically to avoid the stolen taxes. I have yet to find out how the laws that allowed this to happen were put into effect, but the effects have been devastating, while the ceo of apple continues to whine that the taxes are unfair. Considering the damage to America and Americans grossly rich apple might be thought of as an unAmerican sickness, eager to get richer but unable to think outside of its obligations to itself. Shame. To apple and to all those others who have no regard for their home.
But my point is that the election In my opinion could at last have been easily won, simply by Clinton announcing that she would repatriate the hundreds of billions in stolen taxes to re-energize our economy and provide for the opportunity costs so many Americans paid as a result of the stolen taxes, including no health care, huge debts accumulated for their education, loss of homes and jobs, destruction of families, on and on, all promulgated by the actual fact of the stolen taxes. That is, those grossly inflated profits sent off shore that generated the stolen taxes were in effect the stolen home, the student debt, the lack of education, the stolen healthcare, on and on. The huge profits were in fact the opportunity costs lost by America and Americans.
Hillary could have made this a winning meme in her campaign, I wrote often begging her to consider the approach. But instead she sent out Schumer to offer repatriation of mere pennies on the dollar. No surprise, how many of Clinton’s donors who paid so much into her campaign, and into her foundation, and into her personal wealth have huge amounts off shore?
I don’t think trump will do anything to repatriate those stolen dollars, probably he’ll increase the capability of the corruption that makes them possible, or simply eliminate the tax requirements so the hugely rich won’t have to off shore their huge profits. But I think we can begin to make it clear to the nation the costs we have paid for the corruption that made all this possible and who authored it. Was it part of a coup still in process, bring so much hardship on so many that a trump would be possible? Why not?
This is a little outside the conversation, we all know of President Obama’s popularity, and his play will get boring after a couple of month’s golfing and wind boarding. There seems no way forward, that is the source of the despair being felt, there is nothing that can be done.
One asset we who have gotten quickly sick of trump’s incapability and incompetence have is superior numbers. We can quickly profit from this advantage by conducting a national General Strike, shut down the country. I read there is an effort to have a women’s strike on March 8, said to include women in many countries across the world. It is not strange to me to make it the general strike, in the name of women world wide.
Of course the question of who would lead such an effort is immediately heard, with good reason. My answer to that is he who is most qualified for the effort, he who has led our nation and the world so capably for the last eight years, President Obama. As I said he will probably be bored soon, and the need is huge. The efforts of the leadership can easily be financed, a mere $10 a month from only those whose votes exceeded trumps will net a cool $29 million a month, and I suggest even some of the smarter republicans will find cause to donate, assuming they exist.
Here’s a couple of suggestions, though. If willing to consider it, President Obama should go underground to prevent assassination attempts. And, our media is infected, those organizations that ‘moderate’ all the websites we visit are in a position to shut down those sites used by liberals to communicate. Maybe Anonymous can build us a site that can’t be corrupted.
This is a little far out, but I think the logic is sound.
If you are talking about money held overseas by American people (as opposed to corporations) then: Bullshit – that ship has sailed. The US is the only real country on the planet that taxes its beleaguered citizens wherever they live and tries to tax green card holders too if they have the temerity to stop living in the USA. Americans living overseas can barely open bank accounts or get mortgages Banks won’t deal with them because the banks have such a mega compliance burden reporting these US people to the IRS. And getting rid of US citizenship costs $2350 per person and you first have to be up to date on US taxes even if you have never set foot in the US in your life.
Look at the Panama Papers – it exposed almost nothing overseas being held by “fatcat” Americans. It was virtually all people from other countries. Anything that can be scraped up from Americans overseas – whose lives are made hell by the IRS already – is a drop in the ocean compared with tax evasion by Americans in the U S of A.
Sorry, it is clear I was addressing those who off shore profits specifically to avoid paying their share of taxes.
Very clear to me what “Jimbo” was talking about……corporate tax monies held offshore holding our government hostage……shame on all of them!
Wasn’t clear to me, sorry for perhaps being over-sensitive. There is a myth that the very rich in the United States stash their riches in overseas bank accounts to avoid tax. While there was much truth to that in the past, it simply is not the case now, or rarely. Financial institutions all over the world must report to the IRS the accounts of all US persons, even dual citizens and people who have almost no ties to the US but were born there. This has led to tremendous hardship for Americans who live abroad while bringing in almost nothing in extra remittance to the IRS.
If Jimbo is talking just about corporations then … fine.
London Mayor Boris Johnson has settled a US tax bill he had previously described as “absolutely outrageous”.
Mr Johnson, who has dual nationality, faced a demand from the US authorities to pay capital gains tax on profit from the sale of his house in North London.
American law requires all citizens to pay US taxes even if they live abroad.
The mayor, who is due to visit Boston, New York and Washington next month, had rejected the demand, saying he had not lived in the US since he was a child.
Mr Johnson, who was born in New York, revealed last year he had received a bill from the US Internal Revenue Service. Unlike the UK, the US levies capital gains tax on proceeds from the sale of a main residence.
Asked whether he would pay the demand, Mr Johnson said then: “No is the answer. I think it’s absolutely outrageous. Why should I? I haven’t lived in the United States since I was five years old.”
A spokesman for Mr Johnson said: “The mayor won’t be saying anything more on the subject. The matter has been dealt with.” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30932891
Yeah, Boris is a wimp who decided to pay massively to buy his way out of US taxes (ridiculous for him to have to pay US tax of any kind) and US citizenship (which he had by the misfortune of being born in the US and living there till age 5). It will have cost him well into 7 figures to do so because US citizenship is almost impossible to get rid of once you have it. They’ve got you for life. He should have told the IRS to sod off, as he originally boasted that he would. Meanwhile, US citizenship grows ever more toxic for anyone possessing it who does not reside in the States and people will pay almost anything to get rid of it. I really wish TI would look at this issue – it is a gross example of human rights violation. This today: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-09/americans-renouncing-citizenship-at-record-high
spot on
hillary was wallstreet’s favorite whore
for the criminal currency system by club Z.
sorry you used what I wrote to attack Hillary. I’m pretty sure she didn’t write the laws that let the richest steal from Americans. She used what was common to all politicians, I’m sure trump won’t do anything to repatriate those stolen taxes, he will probably add to the profits that will be off shored, if not repatriate them unburdened.
Hillary could have made it a campaign theme, but, as she herself profits from offshore accounts, she did the rare smart thing in her campaign and didn’t harp on that.
The scariest thing is that if Democrats don’t address their problems, not only will Trump be reelected, not only will his successor be an even worse Republican, Republicans will also gain control of enough states to completely rewrite the Constitution.
What are you worried they are going to put in there?
Will they make whatever the president does…legal?
Will they make it more difficult to find an abortion clinic?
Will they gerrymander the seats in congress to give the republicans a majority even when they are a minority of the votes?
Will they make it so congress responds primarily to those with millions of dollars in campaign contributions?
Will they make it so America is on a permanent emergency powers war footing where what the president decides can’t be questioned by the courts because of “national security”?
It seems to me they needn’t bother changing the constitution….the words in it will mean whatever Scalia 2.0 says they mean. I guess they could change the name of the country to “Jesus-Land”, that would probably take a constitutional amendment.
Nothing new here, but pulled together masterfully as usual. You forgot to mention that Rahm is making a comeback as national Dem strategists, as usual telling us DFHs that we’re “fucking retards,” i.e. immature, naive purists. Things are getting hot in Chicago and he’s looking for his next gig.
With Chuck (carried interest, Isreal uber alles) Schumer at Senate, Nancy (never saw a Homeland Security provision I wouldn’t go to the wall for) Pelosi, in the House, Tom (I’m your Huckleberry) Perez at DNC, and Rahm dictating the overall DLC strategy, what could go wrong. Also, ole B’rer Barry, he lay low, or maybe he’s sailing above it all.
This is the team that will bring down Donny and Stevie, I just know it.
I guess I just don’t have the patience for people that are only looking to fight. I find it exceedingly boring. Makes me appreciate what an oasis this site has been with so many interesting and engaged commenters. It’s really a rarity when compared to so many other comment sections. The childishness is minimal by comparison.
The “Macroman” thread I’m quoting from is typical, It starts off well enough, but then at some point, it degenerates to the point where there is almost no substance left. Which I guess for some people, is the goal.
But overall, I’ve learned quite a bit over the years about ways of thinking that I knew nothing about previously. And I guess there is no perfect way to interact with conflicting world views.
I still find “libertarianism” remarkable, the mix of commonsense and insanity. I’d never known much about it before, in many countries you just don’t really hear people say something like “the poor can fuck off and die!” the way you hear American libertarians do. It’s straight out of Dickens of course “Are there no workhouses?”, but many countries have moved on since then, the ones that can afford to. And America can afford to.
Well said. For what it’s worth, my apologies for my contributions to the degradation of discourse. That said, I’ll rationalize my bad behavior by saying this disconnect between all the good things about libertarianism (liberty, personal responsibility, etc.) have been obfuscated by the bad (mostly laissez-faire economic policies) to the extent that it actually gives libertarianism and capitalism bad names – deservedly so based on outcomes.
In other words, for forty years I haven’t and still I can’t relinquish the idea that until we expend every effort on meeting the basic human needs of everyone on our planet and support and encourage having an economic policy that reflects these values we’re simply adding to the misery, when we have the resources to do the opposite.
Thank you for those words -especially the last paragraph. Capitalism sanctions both greed and poverty, and both are evils.
“Capitalism sanctions both greed and poverty, and both are evils.”
I haven’t heard it put quite that way. Succinct and accurate. I’m gonna’ steal it. ;-)
The absence of substance is not my goal. Check our conversation and tell me who ceased engagement and starting talking around and about rather than to the conversants.
Neither you nor sillyputty have ever heard anyone say that about their own position, libertarian or not. You might have heard people slander others with it, sure. (Maybe Stalin is an exception, that famous libertarian?)
But I’ve never said or implied anything like that, and it diminishes the credibility of your “I just want to have, good, honest, productive conversation” posture when you immediately turn around and attack a straw man, in a separate thread no less, rather than respond to the arguments you left hanging below. Actions speak louder than words regarding these values you keep telling us you have.
I spent all day in an airport, being lectured by immoral, classless ignorami about morals, ettiquete, and facts. Yeah, you got me, JL, I achieved my “goal.”
“If you don’t want the government to do X, then that means you are against X.” — Brilliant retort of the erudite to all things libertarian.
macroman to JLocke:
“The absence of substance is not my goal.”
You manage to not achieve your goal spectacularly.
” Check our conversation and tell me who ceased engagement and starting talking around and about rather than to the conversants.”
You’ve called me “retarded” and a “bigot” and more.
Spectacularly …
If you use my response to someone else as if it applies to you,…you still can’t manage to make a point, you retarded bigot.
Then there’s this:
Kevin Williamson for The National Review had this to say about poor whites:
“Nothing happened to them. There wasn’t some awful disaster. There wasn’t a war or a famine or a plague or a foreign occupation. Even the economic changes of the past few decades do very little to explain the dysfunction and negligence — and the incomprehensible malice — of poor white America. So the gypsum business in Garbutt ain’t what it used to be. There is more to life in the 21st century than wallboard and cheap sentimentality about how the Man closed the factories down.
The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Bruce Springsteen crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling Rust Belt factory towns and your conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs. Forget your…”
“Neither you nor sillyputty have ever heard anyone say [the poor can fuck off and die] about their own position, libertarian or not.”
I’ll not speak for JLocke, but or forty year and more, the net effect of the policies we’re all talking about has been just that.
And when your dealing with real humans and how it affects their life, their children’s lives, and now their grandchildren’s lives, that’s an unacceptable success rate, and things must change.
“Neither you nor sillyputty have ever heard anyone say that about their own position…”
From my Facebook TL today:
“Let them [the poor] starve to death. God helps those that help them selves.”
Both parties represent little more than the will of giant oil, banking, media and defense corporations. The only way they differ is in marketing strategies, target populations, rhetorical style, & external fluff.
Anyone arguing for saving or fixing Democratic Party is encouraging people to remain in the illusion that staying inside this society’s traditional institutions will allow ordinary citizens to make far-reaching & fundamental changes in the way society is organized.
This simply cannot be. Our society is the way it is, precisely because it has been organized to function in the interests of a narrow slice of the population at the top. By definition, a “traditional” institution in this society (like the Democratic Party) is PART of the very machinery that permits society to function like this. These institutions work to maintain the social order — not to change it. They are against meaningful change.
The Democrats have always been a faction of the enemy. They play a highly treacherous role in the system — that of the common man’s false friend. They have not “just recently” been infiltrated by some dastardly groups (DNC, Neoliberals, etc.), they are not weak or spineless– they are simply a degenerate capitalist institution that has always served elite interests while pretending to be “the party of the people.”
Not only is it wrong to fight to save them — the truth is, no progress can be made until the Democratic Party has been completely discredited & abandoned. It it nothing but a Pied Piper that leads people off into directions where they are guaranteed to be impotent in terms of challenging the status quo.
Together, the 2 parties form a governing structure that responds only to the needs of American capitalism. If you go to the Dem Party “pooh-bahs” and say, “I have some nice ideas for peace, housing, environment, and education,” they’ll laugh in your face. If you go and say, “I have a $10 million donation for you from Exxon-Mobil, if you just relax a wee little regulation about mileage standards,” they will say, “Please come into my office. I believe we can do business.”
The point is that both US parties are big-business parties, responsive ONLY to the needs & desires of corporations. The personnel of both parties are tightly linked to lobbyists. Both parties are stuffed to the gills with consultants, fund-raisers, careerist apparatchiks, connections in the MSM, & so on. All together, this forms an institutional structure that is completely unresponsive to the needs and aspirations of ordinary people.
Outside of fantasies and party cheer leading, it’s a matter of consultants, corporate donations, favorable mainstream media treatment, approval of career party apparatchiks, and so on.
Of course to wean addled liberals away from their addiction to Democrats, an immense shift of consciousness is required; this is not yet nearly in place. Everyone who does understand the mechanisms that make the Dem Party so pernicious should try to transmit this understanding whenever possible. Discussing the rottenness of Democrats whenever possible is an important activity.
Whether or not Hillary out and out lost the election- what is clear, is the Republican party has been steam rolling over the Democratic party in a multi state criminal conspiracy to purge voters, and shut down polling locations. The election was tainted, fraudlent, and there is existing precedent (in content not scope, to declare it void, and half the energy of the populace should be focused on that, since there will be nothing but naked corporatism, and crony capitalism, for at least 4 years. Make no mistake either, if the Republicans got away with voter purges under a democratic president, once Gorsusch gets in, there will never be another Democratic victory higher than dog catcher. http://canceltrump.website
When Obama first took office, Democrats had control of Congress and the Executive Branch.
And they used that power to entrench the rightward-leaning status quo, not change it; both parties are corrupt and serve a greedy elite that functions behind the scenes.
upvote x 10
And it’s precisely because the Democrats didn’t use that majority to enact their campaign promises that they lost that majority.
If Clinton had won there’d also be plenty of naked corporatism and crony capitalism for at least 4 years. Voting conspiracies are less a threat than both parties conspiring with corporations, arms manufacturers, and prisons against citizens.
I used to belong to the Democratic Party, but your article clearly highlights why I left it several years ago. As an independent, I am frustrated that the Democrats can’t see the clear writing on the wall. I guess that the lure of $$$ can really blind people. Since there are no viable party alternatives right now, I will have to continue to be independent and keep a hopeful eye on the future.
Brilliant article, Glenn. You nailed it.
I just wanted to add that the dysfunction at the top of the DNC goes back before Debbie Wasserman-Schultz; after riding DNC Chair Howard Dean’s 50-State Strategy to unquestioned electoral success in 2006 and 2008, the succeeding DNC Chair focused instead on cashing in, regulatory capture, and placating the billionaires & banksters.
At the same time, the GOP invested heavily in taking back Congress AND state legislatures back in the 2010 elections, knowing that if they were successful, they would be in the driver’s seat for the 2010 redistricting process, and could gerrymander themselves to their Permanent Republican Majority. The DNC Chair either didn’t see what was happening, or didn’t think it was important, or… whatever. The GOP won *big*, the Dems lost, and the Dems have been playing a half-hearted game of catch-up ever since. In fact, as Thom Hartmann points out, 2/3 of the counties in the U.S. currently have no organized Democratic Party presence!
Who was that DNC Chairman who dropped the ball, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory? Tim Kaine.
It’s way past time to get the perennial election-losers and excuse-makers out of the way.
Keith Ellison for DNC Chair, all the way.
Perez leaves the bubble and gets an earful…
Rural Americans felt abandoned by Democrats in 2016, so they abandoned them back. Can the party fix it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/rural-americans-felt-abandoned-by-democrats-in-2016-so-they-abandoned-them-back-can-the-party-fix-it/2017/02/08/76a96074-ee16-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?wpisrc=nl_rainbow&wpmm=1
Thank you for elegantly synthisizing the elements that created the dnc mess. I appreciate this level of clarity that is so lacking in most media and journalism today which is perhaps due to being corporately owned, I surmise.
I share all of your pieces on social media and do hope they gain traction…in an attempt to elevate the discourse…god knows the internet needs a little bar raising which the intercept does. So, thank you Glenn for your insight and integrity.and too…for making this complex world a better place.
Zinger. Although do not agree that the popular vote has no relevant meaning.
I worked my ass for Obama in 2008. At least 500 hours in Dayton, Columbus, Cinci Ohio as well as in Denver and Boulder Colorado. I was a believer. As soon as he selected HRC as his Secretary of State the air came out of my balloon. A serious and proven war hawk. WTF.
Was at the Pepsi Stadium in Denver (had my credentials for every event) and made it up to the top and down to the main floor close to speakers. People were on fire moved by the “hope and change” that Obama had carved out in his campaign. People were stomping on the stadium seats so hard I thought the whole place would be levitated over the foothills of the Rocky Mountains and into the stars. I’m telling you it was transcendental the hope people were feeling and oh so wanting to feel. It really did seem that after Obama decidedly won he and his team did not make much effort to harness that incredible enthusiasm and energy. Hell I had worked in campaign offices and knocked on doors with Republicans who were fed up.
How many seats did the Dems lose across the nation while Obama was in office. Somewhere close to 1000 seats. How many Governors went to Republicans during those 8 years. The Dems did not harness that energy
Was a total Sanders supporter at 64. So sick of the msm saying that all Sanders supporters were young. Just could not support a proven war hawk like HRC. Iraq, Libya, Syria (arming unknown rebels) Obama and Clinton could not bring themselves to listen to experts who were right before the invasion like Hillary Mann and Flynt Leverett. Damn I miss their “Going To Tehran” website. No Obama had to listen to war hawk Hillary and her neocon comrades. Death and destruction seem to follow wherever they set their bloody eyes on.
At the Denver rally for Sanders there were 20,000 in line and inside. I walked the line outside and talked with close to a hundred people and asked them their reasons for supporting Sanders (some day I will learn to record with fancy dancy equipment) Articulate and so inspired people talked about Sanders “core beliefs” of realistic humanitarian values. His voting record to back up most of what he had to say. Damn again people were as inspired or more so than for Obama because of Sanders voting record. His lack of a massive ego, his sincerity. Hell the msm missed these massive rallies. They made fun of Sanders at first..actually for months. Then of course we find out all of our suspicions were true that the DNC was actively undermining him.
Schumer, Pelosi, Sanchez have no idea what those Sanders supporters ideals are about. They have no idea how to harness those values. Not even Senator Warren does (she refused to support Bernie we know) Only Bernie, Keith, Nina Turner, Tulsi Gabbard (she is on her way to the top) Nina too.
You are spot on Glenn if the establishment does not really try to understand what the most important values are of the Sanders supporters (my 88 year old mother supported Sanders but voted for Hillary) the Dems will keep losing.
Sanders
Below, Craig Nelsen challenges DocBollywood:
Does this seem like and example of racism, folks?
Or this, in response to rrheard?
Maybe Trump’s DOJ will prosecute, just as soon as they are through punishing Bush’s torture team.
When she first appeared in the campaign, like a lot of people, I thought…not having a soul must be a freeing experience. To be able to tell lies!, sell toxic waste to orphans!, the sky’s the limit! And I understand Conway’s company is doing well. If you can sell a sexist, racist, unethical buffoon, to the people who desperately need the opposite, you can sell anything.
This was the best column in a very long time. Others were good but this is great, long overdue. I personally think that Trump is not and never should have been elected President. He’s incapable of doing the job and his picks will surely make everything worst in this country. Not that the mad bomber has not put this country on a very steep road to ruin. Clinton and her follows have now gone off the reservation not giving one damn that our immigration system stinks that our good old computer companies will lose that CHEAP labor, keeps it money over seas so that it does not have to pay it fair share. Our universities are in line because they want those full payers from abroad. Maybe Clinton’s loss has kept us from the final war on the planet but I think Trump will take care of that. Instead of going via the bomb it will be slow death by a thousand cuts.
“One can spend all of one’s time and energy denouncing Donald Trump. But until the systemic causes that gave rise to him are addressed and resolved, those denunciations will do little other than generate social media benefits and flattering applause from those already devoted to opposing him. Focusing on and attempting to counter the fundamental flaws of the Democratic Party is not a distraction from #TheResistance; it is a central priority, a prerequisite for any kind of success.”
It’s like the logic and reasoning just bounces right off of you.
The Deep State doesn’t want an effective adversary to corporatism, militarism, imperialism or support of Zionist Israel, et cetera. It doesn’t want either major Party to oppose the systemic corruption or global Full Spectrum Dominance.
It simply will not be permitted. So it must initially occur without permission, away from the system’s ability to co-opt or crush. As Edward Snowden said ““If we want a better world, we can’t hope for an Obama and we should not fear a Donald Trump, rather we should build it ourselves.” Anti-establishment movements can no more expect the establishment to help them than a frog can expect an alligator to carry it across a river on its nose.
An anti-establishment movement could bring millions of libertarians and progressives together, for both oppose corporatism, militarism (inclusive of Robocop police and the surveillance state), imperialism and undue foreign influences. But shhh… don’t tell the Deep State! The establishment must be sidelined to develop such a thing, or the endemic corruption by elite interests will curtail the movement by offering another Obama or Trump, who merely pretend to oppose the system.
deepstate will achieve global full spectrum dominance .. unless we call on wolverine, Iron Man, and the rest of the Justice League for program support and community partnering
Well, Captain Trump waddling about impersonating a big grumpy toad certainly isn’t helping.
If only the Deep State was fictional, and Full Spectrum Dominance not being exacted right now… then perhaps your grim attempt at humor would have landed somewhere.
another non-fictional, unfunny thing is Rat Piece (1976), a performance artwork by Kim Jones
in the piece, Mr. Jones covers himself with mud and sets three live rats on fire with lighter fluid … to the horror of the audience (who did nothing to stop his actions during the performance)
Rat Piece was performed only once
California State University at Los Angeles fired their gallery director, Frank Brown … Jones, on a plea of no contest, was later convicted of cruelty to animals
That’s horrible.
Well Glenn, you should be exceedingly happy about all of this. For years you’ve argued the only way to make the democrat more liberal, is for people to withhold their votes. Cause them to lose an election. So you got your wish, the democrats have lost big. Now we will see if your hypothesis was correct. Will the democratic party become more liberal? Only time will tell. Of course you don’t live in this country anymore, so you won’t bear the burden of republican rule like the rest of us. You aren’t going to lose your health care like me and millions of other Americans will, if the ACA is repealed. Your won’t have to drink polluted water and breath polluted air, when the EPA basically ceases to exist. It’s all just academic for you. Must be nice. And what happens if your hypothesis turns out to be wrong? Will you express a mea culpa? Again it’s not going to be any skin off your nose. It amazes me how people like you always criticize democrats, but never republicans. Why is that? It really makes me wonder about your true motivations.
air pollution under obama was simply exported to china
and the ACA just enrolled people and then fleeced the mandated contribution from them … people are not actually getting more health care (except for people covered under medicaid expansion, which will probably be retained by the republicans)
your thinking, like your party, is bankrupt
The GOP agenda is pretty clear for those keeping score while the Democrats pretend to be something they aren’t. HRC and her merry band of hacks were/are big believers in crap like fracking. Did you forget that? TPP? She wasn’t going to make things better, she was designed to make things acceptable to people like you.
And evidently you don’t read Glenn very much as he is very critical of Republicans…perhaps you should look into his books if you don’t believe me.
That’s silly. Greenwald has criticized both Democrats and Republicans for their corruption and unconstitutional behavior. His book “A Tragic Legacy” is all about Bush’s awfulness, for example. He often points out what others miss, however, which is why he made sure to show the corruption beneath Obama’s dazzling charisma and Hillary Clinton’s policy-wonk demeanor even as he warned against Trump.
I considered responding to “Alvin Miller” pretty closely to how you responded to “Alvin Miller,” except I wouldn’t have given “Alvin” the benefit of the doubt about being sincerely that ignorant. But that’s not what I’m replying to you about. I’m replying to you about your comment because I’m curious about the fact that virtually everything “Alvin Miller” wrote about Glenn in that comment was false, and I think you probably know that “Alvin Miller’s” comment was filled completely with falsehoods, and I suspect that you probably know that “Alvin Miller” knows it too.
So, if that is so, and only if that is so, what I’m especially wondering about is my second “probably” to you. What is your guess or theory or belief or whatever about why an “Alvin Miller,” and other people who post similar muddled comments filled with similar falsehoods about someone who has written a thousand articles and five or six books? Generally speaking, why, in your opinion, does an “Alvin Miller” get everything wrong — either on purpose or out of ignorance — when the evidence that their comments are completely incorrect is archived and easy to find and dates back for over at least a decade?
I think such people just put everyone they perceive as “leftist” together in one basket, because they want to say pretty much the same thing to all of them without putting any thought into the process whatever.
Um.. excuse me, that made no sense at all!
I’d confused his comment with another – it’s hard to scroll about on the phone (that’s my excuse, and I’m sticking to it!) I think such commenters’ hatred for leftist criticism of establishment Democrats makes them put all such critics together in one basket, because they want to say pretty much the same thing to all of them without putting any thought into the process whatever.
Ahem.
“when the evidence that their comments are completely incorrect is archived and easy to find and dates back for over at least a decade?”
It’s called internet bowling; set’em up and knock’em down for a strike.
The moral outrage and denunciation, across the board, (as you note) is something we’ve seen a lot of.
I don’t even read most of the crap posted these days unless I know the handle is not a puppet.
You’re intentionally dense. Glenn and others on the left didn’t have to convince anyone to not vote since the two corrupt parties in this country decided to nominate the two most unpopular major party nominees in history. So, these corrupt parties, both of which now have the loyalty of less than 30% of the public, decided to run the most disliked candidates ever. Is it any shock that voter turnout was the lowest it has been in 20 years, and this following an election in 2014 with the lowest turnout of the post-WWII era? As far as all the horrible stuff Trump is doing, know what they happened? It happened because you nominated a horrible candidate, someone that managed to lose to someone with an approval rating under 40% as of the election, despite the fact that she outspent him two to one. You seem to think you can back those type of candidates, election after election, with no end in sight, and if the victims of the policies people like Clinton have supported don’t vote for a further reduction in their living standards, it is their fault and not yours for asking this of them for decades now. The bottom 50% of the income distribution hasn’t seen an increase in their real wages since 1980, and you seem to think they should continue to vote for you despite the fact that you and your neoliberal party have utterly screwed them. You nominate another hack like Booker in 2020, and if you lose as a result (nominating someone like him at the very least makes losing more likely), then it is on YOU. Get that into your head. You had a chance to change course and like the primaries, you chose to mock the left and to go on with a strategy that has led to your party’s collapse.
“It really makes me wonder about your true motivations.”
His motivation is to try and talk sense to people like yourself, to have an appreciation of objective reality and to take some responsibility for the 2016 disaster and your party’s utter collapse nationally. I am starting to wonder if that is just a waste of time.
That’s pretty funny. Yeah, if there’s one thing Glenn Greenwald has done, it’s lobbied hard for Democrats to be more liberal. (Phil Ochs did a song for folks like you some 50 years ago.)
But now the not funny: Listen jerk, Glenn Greenwald is an American citizen with friends and family here. To say he doesn’t care about us is outrageous. Moreover, that the Democratic Party is a “smoking pile of rubble” at all levels — federal, state and municipal — is that party’s fault. Greenwald and others have been telling you for a long time about the problem; you simply have not listened.
This sick, out-of-touch party nominated a woman so deeply unpopular she could not beat Donald fucking Trump. Do you get that? She lost to DONALD TRUMP.
“This sick, out-of-touch party …”
yes, you’ve demonstrated Glenn is great … how dare someone attack Glenn … mona’s going to set that straight!!!
she’ll see something on fire and ride in on a hose truck …
mona apologized profusely for jumping in the gutter on a really nice story … over and over and over … through-out the day, and pleaded for the moderators to “move things”.
now we have profuse adulation of Glenn as a result of new handles who claim to have known Glenn forever.
huh
corny, even
Virtually everything you post to or about me is irrational, false, or both.
You disrupt this place as you did on the adoption piece.
You carried on with the disgusting meme after you apologized for giving it wheels. You started with your handle so you could douse it. That is why you apologized; because it really upset Glenn and that made you feel bad. (We all felt bad)
Now you trot out a brief hagiography of Glenn every-time a new random comment appears; conveniently and regularly.
This is why it is so disruptive to have you puppeteering.
You aren’t telling us anything new and Glenn doesn’t care about ‘drive-by’ critiques.
You prattle on about ignoring certain posters 95% of the time; how about stopping the ‘drive-by’s 95% of the time?
That is all false. None of that happened, certainly not as you describe. You’ve been told, by Glenn, that I do not use multiple accounts, and here you are, still insisting I am “puppeteering.”
The one other person who is fixated on the same nonsense claim — which you’ve been TWICE told not to post — have you heard from him lately? How many polite requests do you think you’ll receive?
quod erat demonstrandum
Humanae vitae tradendae munus gravissimum, ex quo coniuges liberam et consciam Deo Creatori tribuunt operam, magnis semper ipsos affecit gaudiis, quae tamen aliquando non paucae difficultates et angustiae sunt secutae.
Quod munus sustinere si omni tempore coniugum conscientiae arduas facessivit quaestiones, at recens humanae societatis cursus eiusmodi mutationes invexit, ut novae quaestiones sint exortae, quas Ecclesiae ignorare non liceat, utpote quae cum rebus conectantur, tantopere ad hominum vitam et felicitatem pertinentibus.
Stop complaining. Why don’t some of you step up your game, learn to articulate your worldview? If you have a sound philosophy and an excellent grasp of policy or history, there should be very little problem debating Mona. I predict many of you will start asking Glenn to ban Mona shortly because it’s hard to debate her.
The fact that she easily demolishes many of you is not her fault. When you’re telegraphing your posts, all she has to do is dip, step in quickly, deliver an uppercut or body shot, easily block and counter with a combination, or duck, step to the side and deliver a overhand right, which usually knocks most of you out. The few who have thick skulls are unaware of how it looks to the audience, which is fine by me. Stay standing, unfortunately, it’s hard for many of us to look away.
Parroting someone else’s ideas is not thinking or debating. Mona’s internet activism, I think, is meant to expose people with prepackaged ideas, which they have been conditioned to repeat with very little push back. Since it has become an information war, when stupid ideas are demolished by people like Mona, it forces those who intend to spew propaganda back into their bubble, rather than be exposed for the phonies that they are.
I think discourse at this level has become much more important than traditional media because the interaction is direct. People like Mona can be more powerful in the comment section than any op-ed or blog, in my opinion.
As The Intercept becomes more popular, I hope it attracts good writers like Mona, which will intimidate boring trolls or create an atmosphere that will force people to truly study policy and history if they intend to debate. I would be upset if this site devolved into a YouTube comment section.
That said, I hope most of you continue to contribute, even the weak trolls. As long as the balance remains informative and interesting, that’s all that matters. The Intercept staff does their part.
You’re lying. I’ve never argued this.
Except for the 3 books I wrote bashing Republicans, along with the thousands of articles, speeches and interviews – including 2 articles last week about Trump’s travel ban and Yemen raid. Other than that, good point.
As for the bit about not living on sacred US soil: aside from the fact that I’m a US citizen who pays taxes to the US Government, thus rendering your attempt to diminish my right to speak about it quite ugly: my work is in the US, my family and friends are in the US, and – as you might have heard – what the US Government as the sole super-power does affects people all over the world, including those on dirty non-American soil.
Ruh Roh Alvin…evidence
DSA! DSA! http://dsausa.org
Corporations are shrewd and voters are gullible. Therefore, Democrat policies in _substance_ are designed for the super-rich but in _appearance_ are made to be palatable to the public. It’s just a matter of finding the right spin.
The assumption that voters don’t really matter is fine until suddenly they stop voting for you. Even gullible people eventually realise they’re being dicked around. The really sad thing is, they’re still gullible: so they go and vote for Trump, don’t they?
Thank you Glenn. We have been begging for this coverage.
The corporate, Neocon wing is arrogant and full of hubris. They truly believe their stupid formulas and talking points will work. They strike me as people who have disdain for the common man and only care about protecting finances ?around the Political Industrial Complex.
I’ve been repeating this often; the corporate, Neocon wing of Democrats are more dangerous than Trump. They will use the blind partisanship of many Dems to influence support for conflicts with Russia, Iran and funding many multinational deals historically hated by liberals. They want the energy of liberals but don’t want them close to power.
I’m glad Hillary failed. She would have only solidified a cancer that would have totally destroyed the party beyond repair.
In other news, Syria tortures people, according to Amnesty international:
This will come as no shock to the American government, that has sent prisoners to Syria for that very reason:
Arar, still, all these years later, hasn’t received justice in American courts. As many other visitors to America are learning this week. At US airports, visitors have no rights.
Jordan ?@JordanChariton 1h1 hour ago
Interviewing @ggreenwald on the trainwreck that is the corporate Democratic establishment–stay tuned for interview on @TYTPolitics [The Young Turks] later
Nice. I loved Glenn’s recent appearance on Jimmy Dore’s show.
Again an excellent article Glenn. I have been arguing the Democrats nom longer represent the working Americans and have not for decades. Now only foused on entitlement and minority ( In any cases 0 unpopular viewpoints. the Republicans are now faced with the reality voters dislike them as financially owned as well. Thus we now faced with a Clinton had NO CHOICE than elect someone NOT owned by the Special Interest Groups now in control of BOTH Political Parties. So we rolled the dice on the Donald! time will tell!
Having difficulty with the “Reply” function, replying to Charles Pluckhahn, in this post.
Charles,
You and millions more gave up on the Democratic Party, as I did, and I also foolishly supported Obama twice, financially as well, and waited 8 long years for the “change”, part of the “Hope and Change”, lie, which never materialized.
And then they had the gall to foist eternally corrupt Hillary on us, essentially telling us we were deaf, dumb, blind, and incredibly stupid.
I don’t know how 8 years of Trump and a Republican controlled Congress will change things, for the average American family, but if after 8 years, there is real quantifiable improvement, the Democratic Party may never again amount to anything.
Great article, there may be hope with young people reading this and finding it convincing. As for older Clinton supporters, I found that none of them has given an inch. There’s no anger that their candidate, despite her big emphasis on the crucial importance of a Dem victory in the election (Supreme court! Climate change!), clearly did not give her best to make herself appealing to voters. she apparently was unwilling to forgo the lavish speaking fees, in the end hiding away in the Hamptons with her donors at the height of the campaign season instead of trying to connect with voters. No one seems angry about the gamble they took by promoting Trump as her opponent, figuring that he would be the perfect foil for her although in reality she was the perfect foil for him. I have seen no indication of anger or regret by any of her supporters, just indignation about the Electoral College, the Comey letter, the Russian hackers, and of course Bernie Sanders for making her look bad.
then there’s the blatant dishonesty. here’s from one of the vilest Washington Post journalists a year ago:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-the-democratic-establishment-fears-bernie-sanders/2016/02/19/2323482e-d70c-11e5-be55-2cc3c1e4b76b_story.html
a few months later the whole argument was totally debunked but never any recognition of that. instead new pieces of drivel from this man in the WapO, week after week.
>>> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/dnc-leak-clinton-team-deflected-state-cash-concerns-226191
On a lighter note, has everybody read this, the story of how the “Munich Post” fought until the end against the normalization of Hitler.
Glen,
Thank you for having the chutzpah to tell the truth about our utterly useless Democratic Party, and stating the indisputable and only reason they lost to Trump.
I supported Bernie Sanders from the moment I understood that here was a man, an honorable man, standing out in front of the big avaricious corporate maw, which had consumed our entire government, and now owned essentially every member of Congress, and was simply waiting to have Hillary sworn in, ready on day one to seal the fate of the long ignored suffering populace.
She, her corporate owners, her well-heeled coastal liberal elites, and her rabid acolytes, saw only a golden throne in front of them, a throne from where she would continue her long in-place service to Goldman Sachs, and all her other corporate masters, salivating at the prospect of having their “man”, at the helm of the nation, willing to do their bidding.
Bernie Sanders would have beaten Trump in a landslide, no doubt about it. His platform was a clear unequivocal statement which told the electorate that here was the long awaited redemption, a redemption which was anathema to our corporate owned government and its forthcoming President, and so the wholly corrupt Hillary, the DNC, and her corporate backers went to work, and destroyed Bernie, aided by the NY Times, Washington Post, and several other mainstream liberal media outlets.
The people saw this sabotage occur, and gravitated to Trump, in desperation, seeing similarities to Bernies’ promises, knowing that if the status quo was to be changed, it was now or never.
And now every opportunity for the Democratic Party to heal its self-inflicted mortal wounds, is being ignored, and these imbeciles in their stupidity, fixate on trying to keep attention on anything and everything, including Trumps actions, presuming the people will forget and forgive.
Four years will pass quickly, and if he continues for two terms, and succeeds in improving living standards for most Americans, the Democrats may be on the outside, looking in, for the next 16 years.
There are none so blind as they who will not see.
Mel, I have been felt left behind by the Democrats for years, but I don’t expect to see anything good come out of the Cheetoh administration because he’s an even bigger buddy to the Goldman Sachses of the world.
Thank you Glen for your clear vision and your integrity. On this note, and in appreciation as well for the interesting and thoughtful comments your article has engendered, I ask to what extent the problems within the Democratic Party are not practically inevitable within the framework of our ‘two-party system’. By logic, it would seem that they must move ever-closer to each other as they vie for the same votes. And you are absolutely right in pointing out that from an ‘anything goes’, lumped-together ‘resistance’, no coherent alternative can emerge. More than trying to somehow bring about significant and lasting reform to the Democratic Party, we must push for a discussion of the ‘two’ versus multi-party system, the merits of which include a clear demarcation between existing political options and a broader, as well as more in-depth, public debate.
Pete Buttigieg, Democratic mayor of South Bend Indiana. He should be the head of the DNC
Amen. I love that Glenn can remain rational and persuasive whilst covering this stuff.
I’d be more colourful – the Dem party is riddled with a cancerous growth, progressively (hah!) converting healthy tissue into slime. That disease has subsequently infected a large part of what used to be known as the “left”, desensitising them to traditional causes like war, poverty and financial chicanery for a tribal focus on “opposition” to the Republicans and Trump. WTF is that worth, when Dem policies and candidates are practically indistiguishable from Trump’s? Behind all the howling that Trump is “beyond the pale” is an unwillingness by most (not Glenn) to acknowledge that Obama was a very slick veneer over the the same nasty tumour.
Andrew- Obama will be fine- He has now officially joined the plutocracy- witness Barack frolicking with Sir Branson in the waters near Branson’s private island. That is a fitting and shining example of what he wanted to achieve by being POTUS. He worshipped the rich- now he is one of them.
All that is certainly true and the article very well written but as the old song says, “If you waste your time a talkin, to the people who don’t listen to the things that you are sayin, who do you thinks gonna hear.”
The democratic party will follow the money until the bitter end (e.g. when it runs out). The next three elections are the republican’s to lose. If they actually create jobs and change some things they will be in power for at least eight more years however repugnant their social policies. “Give us bread and then ask for virtue” is the banner that the electorate has been marching under for several thousands of years now. It’s not going to change and neither are Chucky Schummer and Nancy Pelosi.
Socio-economic reprisal as a control mechanism…
Who knew that a household name with financial independence could say what they perceived as the truth, challenge every form of dissent toward their views and plug into the Peoples yearning to be heard without fear of economic reprisal?? :) Luv yas!
I will do something rare and comment under my real name even though I’m going to take a ton of abuse for what follows. It won’t help that a simple Google search can confirm that I donated a fair amount of money (for a small-timer) to the Ds in he ’00s, and supported Obama in ’08 with money and words. Now I’m going to tell you what you don’t want to hear, so I’ll be a traitor.
In ’16, I cast a write-in vote for Vermin Supreme, the performance artist. My 11th presidential election and first not-D presidential vote. It was more than dissatisfaction with the tterrible choice; it was also my declaration of political independence from the D Party that I called home for 40 years.
The article here takes the standard “progressive” view that the Ds became too corporatist, and suggests that they should’ve gone with Sanders, the socialist, and Ellison, the Muslim. Like all good errors, there are some grains of truth involved. They’re in the article already, so I see no need to repeat them.
But I don’t think the article deals with the elephant in the room: the 40% of the electorate that consists of white working class people. The Ds bought into a highly divisive vision centered on a “majority minority” future, and in doing so pretty much went out of their way to not simply ignore white workers, but to actively disparage them as people.
Vox did an excellent take-down on last year. “The Smug Style in American Liberalism” should be required reading for every snotty progressive in every big city. Too many of you think you are smarter and better than everyone else. It oozes from every pore, and it’s irritating as hell.
Guess what? There are 15 million or so adult Democrats who own guns, and another 5 million adult Democrats who live with them. There are 185 million cars, mini-vans, SUVs, and pickup trucks registered in the United States, and less than 0.5% of them are electric.
A Tesla costs $100,000. It’s out of reach for the 99%, but you sure talk about it a lot. Buy local, you say, promoting those farmer’s markets where a tomato goes for $5 a pound — and the grower goes broke providing it because of how inefficient the distribution chain is. Solar power? 0.7% of the total. More renewables, you chant, brushing off the reality of what that’ll do to electric bills.
The working class that you’ve forgotten about might stand behind the counter at Whole Foods, but can’t afford to shop there. They get their groceries at Albertson’s, and often have a second job at Home Depot. Shooting is a hobby, and so is hunting. And there’s a handgun at home for protection. There are hundreds of thousands of cases of armed self-defense every year, by the most conservative estimates.
If the white working class lives in Boston, or San Francisco, or Seattle, it’s out in the cheaper suburbs, far from the software programmers and financial managers. More likely, they are in cities and towns that most people reading my comment have never heard of, or are happy to have escaped. Dinner out is at TGI Friday’s or Olive Garden, and the server is in the working class too.
Progressives tell them that they are “ammosexuals” for owning guns; mouth-breathing sadists for hunting; and losers for earning $55,000 a year from one spouse’s two jobs and the other spouse’s single job. They are the beneficiaries of “white privilege,” and are racist for raising an eyebrow at this riot or that report of illegal immigration. It goes on.
My D Party stood first for the common worker, then for the rest. Today’s D Party is culturally and increasingly financially disconnected with the common worker, who sees government focused on benefits for people who do not work, and with little or no accountability attached. Oh, and about that 100,000 Syrian refugees that you want to bring here. Who’s paying?
This isn’t an argument for the Rs. We know where they’re focused. I’m saying something different: Amid all the histrionics — some justified, most not — about Trump’s victory, has anyone bothered to ask just why so many people who ordinarily would’ve scoffed at Trump wound up voting for him? This is only a guess, but maybe the lectures are backfiring.
Progressives, could it be something about yourselves at play? Nah, couldn’t be. Them idiots just don’t know what’s good for ’em. Just wait. Them idiots will come crawlin’ back to us. Well, I can’t tell you what to believe, but I can say this much: Don’t be so sure of yourselves on the crawlin’ back theory.
Because you got your feelings hurt from pretentious and elitism liberals, you shot a lot of working class people through the heart? Economically disadvantaged people will suffer the most from Cheetoh’s policies, not the liberals you gave a symbolic finger to. You don’t like being called dumb, but that wasn’t too smart.
Conservatives want a future where a teeming horde of WASP herrenvolk Morlocks are forced to spend their short lives toiling for the Eloi; liberals want a future where both the Morlocks and Eloi have different skin colors, though they can deal with it if the Eloi aren’t as ethnically diverse as the Morlocks.
Of course, liberals are much more insufferable and self-righteous about their hellish vision of the future. Either because they can’t see how their abandonment of every Enlightenment principle except for nationalism and especially capitalism will lead to this end state, or more likely, they really think that their fake-multiculturalism (and it’s fake, because of the whole imperialism and capitalism worship) makes up for economic deprivation.
The orthodox liberals in the Democratic Party has been quite clear on the latter point. 15 dollar minimum wage is not worth abandoning identity politics. And if you point out that even their favorite Judas goat Coates says that economic deprivation and categorical oppression are one and indivisible? Prepare for an unprecedented case of amnesia, followed by a block chain.
You mean that the people whose wages haven’t grown since Reagan was elected (the bottom 50% of the income distribution), the people that have seen their debt load explode, the ones that live in a country in which wealth inequality has exploded, will START to suffer? My gosh, how will they deal with being harmed by these two parties, ignored, left behind and talked down to? Do you think that NAFTA, the WTO, the gutting of New Deal financial regulations, gutting social programs the poor depended on, privatizing prisons, committing to austerity, pushing for harsh sentencing laws, pushing to privatize schools, had anything to do with that? Clinton was working on privatizing Social Security too, then the Lewinsky affair broke. I mean, her husband supported that stuff, and she proudly attached herself to his policies. Even during the campaign she said she would put him in charge of economic recovery, and you want to pretend to care about poor and working people? Trump and Clinton were leading us in the same direction on many issues, he is just going to speed up the process and speed up the collapse, and I say that as someone that is going to be harmed by his policies. If we had an actual opposition party worth a damn, which we don’t, they would have already critically self-reflected, cleared house and turned their backs on corporate cash and big money donors. I am not going down with that sinking ship and I will do my best to fight for long overdue structural changes by other means. I have no choice, since your party is beyond repair. Don’t blame the damn actual left for this crumbling country, since it hasn’t been people like Sanders running this government in the last few decades. It’s been people like Clinton and Obama, and those to their right, and their policies are disasters. Blame those with power and money, since they’ve been the ones manning the damn ship. It isn’t the fault of the victims of their policies for not supporting their own destruction.
If you actually think I shifted because I got my feelings hurt, all I can tell you is that you can find the nearest idiot in the mirror.
Marilyn might want to prove your point, but you’ll get no argument from me. That Vox piece by Emmet Rensin resonated for me as much as it might have for you. It was an insightful piece and another writer, @Chris_arnade, is taking a ton of heat on twitter for advancing similar arguments with his front row vs back row characterization. I have argued for some time that, although I personally believe the Electoral College maybe ought to be scrapped for one-person-one-vote, its presence in this election brought something to the fore that had been on permanent-ignore/terminal-hold. There would be no national conversations about the effects of trade in the Rust Belt were it not for this election. And, I sense that until the Democratic Party advances the concerns of *workers* (inclusive) it will wander in the wilderness for some time… and, probably deserves to.
Emmet Rensin’s article on liberal smugness is vapid nonsense.
Liberals being characterized as smug (whether deserved or not, and I think it’s deserved lately) has been a standard conservative bromide for decades — even during the height of the labor-liberal alliance he pines for.
Rensin’s article completely fails to grasp the possibility that the perception of liberal smugness isn’t warranted, as least so long as the ressentiment is coming from the folks who say in all sincerity that rural living makes them superior and that health care isn’t a right. That’d require him to think outside of the liberal memeplex (a central tenet being that there should be a meritocracy and people inside the meritocracy should be materially rewarded) and realize that the perception of smugness may be more of a emergent property of a lopsided power relation (which liberal elites fail to acknowledge) rather than manners.
Ah, yes, Ressentiment. I assume by the use of the specific you’re referring to something like this: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/ressentiment-revisited/
But, I’m not sure that’s what I found as I read Charles Pluckhahn’s contribution. I can find elements of ressentiment in those discussions in which the aggrieved compare high-deductible Obamacare to Medicaid, but I’m not sure I see it in Pluckhahn. and, I don’t think I see it in what Emmet Rensin’s referring to, either.
I was thinking more this usage:
http://www.carlbeijer.com/2016/04/leftists-have-good-critique-of-emmett_23.html
I vote for Milton Wiltmellow.
For DNC chair, or chief apologist?
For clear thinker and devil’s advocate extraordinaire. Milton adds a lot to the comments section on this website and you lot give him nothing but grief.
Well, that’s true.
Yikes!
One of the best compliments I’ve ever heard of myself. I’m sort of speechless. Thank you!
yes
Second the motion. And I have found his platform, from an old issue of Salon:
Madam Chairman, the great state of California, where the swimming pools sparkle in the sun and the traffic jams are world-class, casts all 53 votes for Milton Wiltmellow!!
I’m in California too. I think we’ve got a movement started….
Where did THAT Milton go?
I think our milton stole his brain.
Last known address was Salon.
That’s simple.
Nowhere.
Three principles:
1. Don’t make enemies of your allies.
2. Don’t make allies of your enemies.
3. Listen carefully so that you know the difference. You learn more from disagreement than agreement.
I’m delighted to see your posts again Coram.
I’m reminded of Casablanca:
Thank you.
So with the Democrat Party hemorrhaging votes from working Americans, who do they run for party chair but the guy who was Obama’s labor secretary whose record in office was not pathetic enough that he had to cap it off by supporting labor arbitrage and forfeiting sovereignty with the TPP.
The Democrats are ringers, their job is to run interference against demands from below and to the left.
Well, yes. The goal of the Democratic Party has been to suck all the air out of the room to prevent an *actual* left-wing party from forming, since at least the days of FDR. The New Deal was *explicitly* sold as a way to keep Americans from starting some kind of Communist or quasi-Communist revolt, and FDR wasn’t shy about it. (The idea of Americans going for Communism in large numbers may seem laughable today, but during the 1920s and particularly during the Depression self-identification as Communist or other far-left movements reached up to, IIRC, around 30% of the voting population — if 30% of the voting population voted for *anything* in 2016, they would have beaten both Clinton and Trump, who both got around 25% of the vote.)
The real problem is twofold:
1. People mistake the Democratic Party, which exists to produce the minimum amount of concession by the rich to the public at large to avoid massive revolt, for a party which exists to serve the public at large, which it is not. (It is conceivable that if the true nature of the party were widely recognized and the public made any sort of serious effort, “the minimum amount of concession” could be forced to a much higher level than it ever has. Thus not recognizing the nature of the party is a problem.)
2. Ever since the New Deal, the Democratic Party’s operatives have basically been out there checking to see whether the amount of concession currently in place is actually necessary. At first they were able to break off large hunks without causing problems; in recent years, they have to measure the amount of betrayal possible with a micrometer and do careful calculation to decide whether they can make up for it by being Not Republicans. The defeat of Hilary Clinton came about because they presumed too much about how far they could go.
I understand the angle from which Greenwald is coming in his thought that the popular vote is meaningless. In this case, though, I think there is much to be gleaned from a situation in which the party that won the popular vote still insists that Russian meddling put the other candidate in the White House.
This means the Dems believe that Putin and the Russians were able to fine tune the election to the point where they could deliver a three million vote popular victory for Clinton, while still ensuring that Trump would win the electoral college. Now, that’s some impressive meddling by those tricky, ol’ Ruskies.
Gravity-defying acrobatics of logic and common sense like these would make Nik Wallenda proud, but even circus performers know that bragging up a popular vote victory while blowing the electoral college serves only to make Clinton, Podesta, Perez and the rest of their privileged class look even more inept, self-serving and out of touch.
Unsurprisingly, they aren’t smart enough to see this, and Perez’s continued mentioning of the popular vote this far along is kind of wistfully poetic. It shows they still have nothing, and apparently don’t care that they still have nothing. It also explains his mealy-mouthed comments and refusal to speak to Jilani: Perez doesn’t want to look like an even bigger asshole than he already is. But the only way for him to do that is to avoid talking to real journalists who ask real questions. It’s rock meets hard place for the values-challenged.
But, maybe I’ve been unfair. I’ve been so quick to blame Perez’s haughty arrogance and dismissive attitude on his inherent creative superiority and cultural eliteness, that I never stopped to consider that he may have wished only to shield an innocent public from his ignorance, child-like approach to crises and utter fucking stupidity.
Of course, believing that would require being in a Democratic Party-level of denial and ignorance, and that’s simply a bridge too far for me. I’m proud to report that I was not one of the Demo dinosaurs stuck in the last presidential election tar pit, watching the deadly meteor hurtling towards earth, thank you.
I would like to close by asking to please see a show of hands by those who feel their vote may have been influenced by Russian meddling.
Yep, that’s what I thought…
Stepping outside the confines of US party politics. I don’t see much reason to doubt that the Russians are investing in extra skullduggery, to bring about Brexit, break up the EU, help Trum win etc.
From the American democracy perspective though, many factors influence individual voters, including influences coming from outside parties, the Norwegian government, KLM airlines, Petrobras, Greenpeace etc.
If the Norwegian embassador says something that influences people, changes the outcome of the election…how do you determine that? Do you have a do-over election? Best two out of three? Of course not. Infinite events influence the millions of voters as they live their lives. There is no escaping that.
All you can do is be aware of what is going on. TV adverts are trying to sell cars, Clinton is trying to get elected, Mexico wants you to visit their beaches etc.
Is Putin a nasty packet? Yes, but I’d suggest more Americans are likely to die because of actions their own government is taking now, than because of anything the leaders of Norway or Russia do.
That Russian meddling helped Trump win is not my contention, but Clinton’s and the Democrat’s. I’ve no doubt that Russia attempts to influence situations globally as much as the Americans and everyone else do. Why wouldn’t they?
But, what I have yet to hear is precisely how they influenced the outcome, and how any such influence could possibly be calculated as to its effect on voter behavior.
In fact, there has been no stated concern by anyone that the Russians physically manipulated voting machines or anything having to do with tallying the actual vote count. This limits their supposed meddling to generating leaks from amateurishly protected email servers and attempting to alter voter’s perceptions by making Clinton look bad, as if she needed the slightest bit of help doing that, considering the contents of the emails and, well, everything else, of course.
If the emails had been hacked by a disgruntled DNC staffer who supported Sanders, would the corruption relieved be any less or any more relieving about the deep flaws that lie at the heart of Clinton’s character?
Hillary lost because she epitomizes, more than any other human on this planet, the corruption in the US government.
I think in your first sentence you meant revealing and not relieving, didn’t you? Either way, the answer is no. Why would it? And I agree with your second sentence. The tone of your comment sounds like you have a beef with what I wrote, but maybe I’m misunderstanding it.
Depends on what you mean. The Russians really do spend a lot of money on online propaganda, but most of that goes towards the type of site which conspiracy theory believers post links to on Facebook. Most of these sites disappear after a while, but some of them stick around. It would not be surprising if Alex Jones was getting Russian money. The thing is, though, that that sort of article isn’t really going to influence people very much.
The things which *did* influence the election are things like the leaked e-mails which revealed that the DNC was in the bag for Hillary and doing everything it could to put its thumb on the scales in her favor, and then DWS actively bragged about it, or the way Clinton tried to tamper with the evidence in the FBI’s investigation of her e-mail server by deleting messages before they could impound the machine (and then lied about that, albeit not under oath), or the time she collapsed in public where they came out with 3 different — and false — explanations before finally admitting that yes, she had walking pneumonia. (There are more incidents, but those are the big three.) All of those were factual things, and there is no particular suggestion that we found out about them because of Russia. But the DNC would like us to conflate true-but-unflattering stories with propaganda. (Much the same way Clinton supporters would like us to conflate the 2001 AUMF Against Terrorists, which even Bernie Sanders voted for, with the 2003 AUMF Against Iraq, which Clinton voted for even though a majority of her constituency no longer supported military action by that time, and which Sanders voted against.)
Not only were these things factual, but they were unnecessary and suggestive of incompetence. If, as Clinton supporters claim, Clinton was going to win the primary anyway, then permitting the DNC to even try to cheat in her favor merely created the impression that she was a cheater. If, as Clinton supporters claim, there was nothing incriminating in Clinton’s server, then deleting e-mails from it before the FBI could look at it merely created the impression that something was being covered up. If, as Clinton supporters claim, the lies about her collapse were trying to avoid a media blowup about her health, then telling those lies merely added a second blowup about how her campaign was lying. Even from the start, Clinton’s big weakness is that she was seen as untrustworthy, and yet she and her campaign simply couldn’t help but reinforce that impression by telling lies, which they insist were needless anyway.
In the same way, the DNC’s big problem is that they are seen as out of touch with Americans, and yet they keep pushing to avoid representing even their own party membership.
Amen.
Great article. I hope it means you understand that fixing the Democratic Party is essential, since there is no other way that we are going to move forward and break the present troglodyte stranglehold on power.
It remains to be seen whether the resistance by the Democrat elites to changing the party will take more effort to overcome than building a new party from scratch.
The Demopublicans have ensured their electoral monopoly by rigging state election codes to raise the bars to any challengers. Whether those bars are higher than the closed shop of the DNC and party elites remains to be seen.
That there is even a question exposes the gravity of the task before us.
did you have a hand in picking Trump’s cabinet?
“[Bernie] Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Jesse Jackson [and] also party stalwarts such as Walter Mondale, John Lewis and even Schumer himself” are NOT progressives. They support the agenda of war and imperialism. Sanders and Warren just voted for “Mad Dog” Mattis, for heaven’s sake!
Very true, Noam Chomsky pointed this out.
yes indeed.
And then there’s “Liberal” darling Ellison, who alas, apparently couldn’t manage to muster up enough pro-Israel bona fides in time to have himself installed:
“Ellison is part of the pro-war Left, whose primary mission is make self-described liberals and leftists comfortable supporting imperial wars.”
“Ellison has been advocating a no-fly zone for Syria for at least a year. Last May, he told U.S. News and World Report that so-called “safe zones” should be set up by the U.S. and its allies around the borders of Syria. Ellison made it quite clear that he sees such zones as a prelude to regime change. “I think the Libyan action was a good example of that,” he said.”
“As Ellison, the phony progressive, puts it, “I don’t think the world’s greatest superpower, the United States, can stand by and do nothing” – which is, essentially, John McCain’s position.”
from:
http://blackagendareport.com/content/rep-keith-ellison-personification-phony-pro-war-“progressive”
Why are Democrats listening to Debbie Wasserman Schultz or Donna Brazile or any of the people in charge of the DNC when it lost 1000 seats in state governments, 36 Governorships, the House the Senate and finally the WH? Tom Perez is another member of the Democratic hierarchy. Why didn’t the actual National Committee stand up, speak out when it witnessed the cancer spreading through the Party?
I’ve had it with all of them. I am #DemExit and I think the only way to bring back the REAL Democratic Party is to dump this group in the Potomac, then fumigate their HQ. Tragic part is they are as delusional as Donald Trump. The alarm was set back during the primaries but they pushed the snooze button and have yet to wake up. Now, it is too late.
“dump this group in the Potomac, then fumigate their HQ”
Perfectly sums up my feelings about the democratic party. Rather than look in the mirror regarding their terrible loss to the most unqualified candidate to ever run, the DNC continue to be arrogant and ignorant, spouting bullshit to their dwindling supporters and counting on their mainstream media mouthpieces to parrot their frames and talking points.
After years of losing elections around the country, even this latest, greatest humiliation has not spawned any self-reflection. It is abundantly clear that despite their throwing out progressive sounding platitudes, Democratic elites are interested only their own near-term benefit. Thinking we can work with them, cooperate and make progress is as naive as Obama thinking he could find middle ground with the Republicans.
The story of the Democratic party since the end of World War I has been one of support for aggressive imperialism aimed at any and every country on the planet that dares to be presumptuous enough to challenge U.S. domination. Of course, that is the goal of the Republican party, as well, but with religious fundamentalism and superstition as well.
I already left a comment! Were is it????
If there is more than one link in it, it will take a while.
And if it his first, a human has to let it out of the filter. That’s how they screen out commercial spam. Also, it can be necessary to refresh the page a few times, and wait a few minutes.
This is a lot of interesting conjecture but political theory and evidence both suggest that it’s very difficult for either party to win a third term. Polling digested that Hillary would win, but they focused on the popular vote, which she did. But that created expectations that somehow she SHOULD win, and when she didn’t everyone scrambled to explain the “failure.” You think Perez would have won but for some strategic criticism? As if Hillary faced no criticism of her own (she was accused of being complicit of murder for crying out loud!)? She won the primary, and handily, and if instead of challenging Hillary’s credentials as a liberal (hint: she is a progressive one, deal with it) they at the very least depicted her honestly it probably would have helped. If you want to see how a party is doing you need to look comparatively: democrats are as cohesive as ever, Republicans are all over the place. I have to go teach a course on American Politics now or I’d say much more.
“…and if instead of challenging Hillary’s credentials as a liberal (hint: she is a progressive one, deal with it)…”
On Hillary Clinton’s progressive credentials…
Hillary Clinton’s Not-So-Strange Right-Wing Bedfellows
http://www.paulstreet.org/?p=1801
PS It takes a special sort of petulant arrogance to conclude a post with, “I have to go teach a course on American Politics now or I’d say much more.” Massive eye-roll. My heart goes out to the poor students that are compelled to endure your partisan spew.
Clinton II had the entirety of the DNC establishment behind her, 99%+ of Democrats elected in partisan races and yet the socialist upstart insurgent messenger from the 1960s held her to 55/45.
By no measure is that winning handily.
the mark of every true progressive is falling in love with Kissinger and voting with McCain
Brilliant, thanks for covering Tom Perez. I googled him, and it was like googling Hillary Clinton back in June 2015. All accolades. $ doesn’t win elections anymore. How did our legislative branch become a bunch of millionaires?! Maybe a new law forcing liquidation of all investment be mandatory in order to serve in the Senate & H.O.R.’s. If they hit the million dollar mark, they can waive salary & still serve. This is about as likely as Keith Ellison & Bernie Sanders leading the Democratic Party. Oh well, Rome is burning, pass the popcorn….
Perceptive article, Glenn. Here’s a tip: watch not just the DNC chair contest but what happens in state Democratic parties. DNC tends to be insiders but the state conventions may draw more down-to-earth people. And especially watch what happens with the race for state party chair in California. The convention is in May.
Yup.
Let’s just say it may be an augury. The assembly-district caucuses in January elected a number of Bernie or progressive grassroots slates. If the usual hacks can still prevail at the Sacramento convention in May it will suggest that if the country’s biggest Democratic state party can’t clean itself off, then what Glenn is denouncing isn’t going to change.
What a Joke!
Do you mean the same devious state of California democrats who
were in on the “Hillary Victory Fund” scheme (along with more than
30 other states) in which they were able to take in huge amounts of
corporate funding
under the pretense of it going to the states
and then turning around and sending approximately 99% of the
money to the DNC coffers?
All of them did it as a way of exceeding campaign “donations”
for their Wall Street Madame.
Yeah, Right.
The states party memberships are just regular folks in the same way
that Hillary Clinton and George Clooney are innocent bystanders.
Rubbish.
Were you at the party caucuses in January?
If your premise is that the CDP is run by well-heeled hacks, that has been true going back to the Clinton presidency. It still is. My question is whether it turns around in May, and the party gets a much-needed fumigation. If not, then Glenn’s premise is right and the Democratic Party is a lost cause.
I am not a democrat.
I did identify as a democrat decades ago, but when
they became more blatantly Reaganistic, I realized what a
stupid fool I had been.
I have repeatedly supported the Green Party candidates,
but I have no illusions about the fact that in the faking U$A
there is no candidate who I can wholeheartedly support
or who the corporate owned state will allow to really challenge
their state religion of monetary domination through lies.
When approximately 98% of the voters are willing to
support corporate party fakers, I have no reason to believe
that things will change for the better, BUT I will
continue to support some candidates who at least seem to be
working AGAINST the established corruption of the
democrats and republicans. This notion of changing the
machine from within however is willful ignorance and it only
continues
to make things worse.
Maybe when all Hell breaks loose, people will take off their blinders.
As it is, the first MANDATORY step is to tell the democrats and
republicans to go to Hell. Anything short of that is just stupid.
They will not change as long as they know they have suckers
willing to wear their “d” or “r” blinders and invest their time,
energy, and money in their religion.
Sadly the California state Democratic party is one of the worst.
Everything about the convention is rigged a year in advance.
Superficial dissent is allowed but nothing substantive can occur without approval from Wall Street’s DNC.
Yes. And given that California is heavily Democratic, its state party affects how the national does business. It’s run by the rich and by hacks, and its platform is a pot of bland mayonnaise. My advice to Glenn was to watch what happens in the runup to the Sacramento convention and its results. If nothing changes, then it’s game over, and not just in California. At that point we will need a new party.
I understand your meaning now and yes that is a good thought.
Superb article by Glenn Greenwald (“Why the Democrats’ Flaws Urgently Need Attention”). Thank you.
Heads up: The racists, xenophobes and haters are flooding the comments below the Devereaux piece on deportations.
Mr Thomas Frank wrote a series of articles in The Guardian before, during and after the last election…… worth reading…. specially,
“The Republicans and Democrats failed blue-collar America. The left behind are now having their say ” and “The intolerance of the left: Trump’s win as seen from Walt Disney’s hometown “.
Wonder, if any democrat in power read any of the articles he wrote!! He/she may want to then reflect on what he/she did wrong and what can be done NOW!
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/thomas-frank
“Listen Liberal”–relatively new book out by Frank.
Yes, hoping to read it.
We can believe the primaries were rigged and also believed that Hillary Clinton won legitimately. This position would be predicated on the belief that she would have won anyway in spite of primary rigging and on the belief that monopolizing party support before the primaries even began is legitimate.
But the russians attempted to influence our democracy …
oh, my pearls
Clear indeed that they’re unwilling to meaningfully change their ways:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/some-democrats-push-for-an-economic-message-that-goes-beyond-trashing-trump/2017/02/08/8fb9dc5a-ee0d-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.73d5b302a9fb
We need another option, I do not like either of these!
Yeah; bullies. Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism, and the Romantic American West. It might be in our DNA. But I find the appeal to Americans’ sociology (sociopathy?), about as useful as the economist I know, returning from Russia having worked with the IMF, asserting that what Russians needed more was not capitalism but Religion (religion writ large).
I sense that even given the relative nearness of Ellison and Perez, the Democrats are utterly terrified of letting presumed Sanders’ supporters win anything. Seriously, if they are genuinely so close, why the competition? Some Democratic operative, somewhere, surely has to be arguing, Why not let them win this one? If they can be appeased by a DNC chair – which really isn’t all that big a deal – why not let ’em have it? That, even this, can’t be countenanced tells me just how insecure the Democrats really are.
Given the ironclad nature of our two party system, I’m a lot more interested in this piece by Seth Ackerman. And, I would be a whole lot more interested in Milton Wiltmellow‘s thoughts about that then his/her fantasy jump into planet H’ trae.
As a result of being willing to give up my 35 year Unaffiliated/Independent voter registration so I could caucus for Sanders, and being willing to push some paper for my assigned voter precinct (absent any other volunteers), I, subsequently, discovered that I was a duly “elected” Democratic Precinct Committee Person. Attended my first county level Democratic Party meeting last weekend, and am obliged to attend the one next weekend. Let me count the ways I am not enthused…. but I am nothing if not subversive; Neil Postman and Charles Weingartner recruited me to that framework a very, very long time ago. I’ve begun to introduce the KnockEveryDoor.org’s project into the discussion. In this precinct’s (and, county’s) territory of rural farmer’s (of an Evangelical orientation) Democrats need all the allies they can get. And, some of those allies will be found in the progressive, but unaffiliated, (non)voters who don’t party declare, but do/might vote. It’s worth a non-partisan approach to those folks to identify them and their principal concerns, before the party begins to push candidates at them. Or, at least that’s my thought, hedging mightily against much optimism.
As for bullies, Milton, let me tell you that my personal experience with Hillary’s supporters at the caucus took bullying to its essentials. The spittle flying, body space invading, in-your-fucking-face, denouncing all *empirical* (read: polls) arguments at 90dB… these women intended to be as intimidating as they could possibly be. Well, congratulations to ’em, eh? They “won.”
This bears highlighting:
.
Many of us here, as you know, can tell essentially that same story, about both meat space and online experiences with the Hillarycrats. Then, after spending a year communicating to us in every way possible that we should go fuck ourselves, they have gall to complain not enough of Bernie’s people turned out for her to stop Trump.
Jesus, they lack even a 12-year-old’s understanding of human nature.
Many of us here, as you know, can tell essentially that same story, about both meat space and online experiences with the Hillarycrats.
[Waving my tiny fyslexic dingers as high and fast as I can!!!]
Yeah the irony of them saying for months and months “fine we don’t need you, fuck you”, and us saying “watch out you most certainly do need us and it would be very easy to appease us if you’d do X, Y, and Z” (all goals you nominally claim to support as “liberals”, or should), and then to blame us when we didn’t show up to support the Establishment Queen.
They just don’t get it. I personally don’t think they mind not being in the majority. That takes work, and establishment Dems they are the most fucking lazy craven cocktail weenie swallowing self-absorbed self-satisfied narcissists you’ll ever meet. Just like their GOP counterparts except they don’t hate gays, lesbians, trans, and bi folks, the right to an abortion, or brown folks on principle.
But if you looked at the composition across the entirety of the House and Senate seats, and their “race” of their staff, you’d see that their commitment to their supposed “base” is a mile wide rhetorically and a millimeter deep, at least as a function of their hiring for staff positions. I don’t have time to re-link the data on the latter assertion, but it’s a fact. I’ll find it later.
Oh wait here is one:
http://jointcenter.org/sites/default/files/Racial%20Diversity%20Among%20Top%20Senate%20Staff%2012-2-15%20140%20pm%20(2).pdf
Although not the one I was looking for.
But neither will they defend these things on principle. It’s all about sticking the finger in the air to determine what segments of the electorate they think they need to win any particular election.
Even with regard to abortion, Hillary chose Tim Kaine as her running mate. What sense did that make if she gave one single shit about progressives? (And her gender-tribalist supporters tap-danced around it and defended the Kaine pick.)
These Hillarycrats are unprincipled and rotted to their collective core.
I live in the same county (though not the same precinct) and had the same experience at my presidential caucus. Those of us caucusing for Sanders were told in no uncertain terms that Hillary was a wonderful, intelligent woman, a great statesman, and we were fools for backing Sanders. I can’t help but think of that every time I pass the woman’s house who told us all how foolish we were. Of course, our county nominated Sanders…
For all the screaming Me,Me,Me,Me’s here let me reiterate. Clinton supporters didn’t elect Trump. Trump supporters elected Trump.
Since I made this very simple observation after GG’s first “toldyaso losers” article the day after the election, I’ve been viciously and relentlessly attacked as a Clinton lover, a Clintonbot, a Clinton stooge and many other names I can’t recall. In response to these attacks, I made special effort to point out I caucused for Sanders and voted Clinton in the election.
The degree of viciousness on this board eclipses anything I encountered in caucus. Indeed, in a crowded high school classroom, we — the group of us — decided the Sanders people would go to the east side of the room and the Clinton supporters would go to the west side of the room. No fistfights, no bickering, no accusations, not even any speeches. Like adults we moved ourselves. No big deal. The proctor counted Clinton 23, Sanders 25 and that was it. Afterwards we selected delegates and then went home.
My experience — here, on this board — suggests the anti-Clintonistas are, by far, the most vocal, most obnoxious and most ferocious … all despite the fact that I haven’t argued for Clinton with any particular interest. (If anyone wants to check, there’s a record here. There’s also a record last summer at the Guardian — same name, easy to obtain.)
Who says this? A Breitbarter? A Russian troll? A Republican? A white nationalist? A Trump supporter?
To quote a famous philosopher:
That’s quite literally preposterous, and to pretend to believe it you have to ignore the experiences of many of us — so well captured by TallyHo.
Moreover, when I write: “These Hillarycrats are unprincipled and rotted to their collective core,” you ignore that that is my conclusion after I also wrote this:
That is all true. Your intransigent resistance to this reality has, indeed, been infuriating for those of us who have endured the rancid antics of these unprincipled party hacks.
Trump supporters elected Trump.
And, they were white women.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/white-women-helped-elect-donald-trump.html?_r=0
How nice that your system allowed your group to split. Not us. We had to roll up our sleeves and put on our persuade-for-your-candidate hats on. Hillary’s Ladies were not interested in persuasion; not the poll data, not the tenuousness of electability args, nada. Sanders’ supporters were civil to a fault. Why not be? We had the best of the args. Maybe that was the problem. The precinct split and the numbers for my part of the county went to Sanders.
In any event, my sympathies for the bruising you feel you’ve taken in these threads. Haven’t been around enough to see it all in action. Mostly what I’ve caught are people challenging your premises… but, clearly you see it differently. I grant I’m a highly selective reader.
In the final analysis, I have lost my “fondness” for our system of government, and little to no respect for the greater part of the Democratic Party or Democratic politicians. I have a sincerely grudging respect for the GOP. As someone, somewhere, observed: Republicans get elected to do things, Democrats get elected to be things.
I’m out to try and subvert my little corner of the world. The original point of my $0.02 was wondering what you thought of the Ackerman piece, but maybe you’ve decided that it doesn’t matter what direction the Democrats take from here.
I don’t mean to ignore you. I trust you sufficiently to exclude you from the knife wielders to whom I alluded. If you have something to say, you’re pretty straightforward and intelligent about saying it.
I read the Ackerman piece once, then tried a second time. It was erudite, needlessly detailed, and enormously irrelevant outside a poli-sci graduate seminar. It sounded like Homer Simpson explaining the nuclear plant works.
Yes the two-party system is a monstrosity — an ancient galley so full of holes that some employees must patch its hull while others bail and still others organize the patchers and bailers and ladle the pitch from huge barrels. Their collective weight combines to keep the ship plowing through the waves like a barge. Meanwhile the rowers have little choice but to row along with everyone else. Only the principles above deck (and their retinue) seem untroubled by the perpetually impending disaster.
This year, disaster.
I reject the notion that Sanders would have won had Clinton stepped aside. The enemy yachts could have aimed at him as easily as they did at Clinton. “Jewish, part of the system, too old, a lefty socialist …” The script almost writes itself. Dodd Frank destroys businesses, favors Goldman Sachs etc. Out of touch except with the liberal Jacobins.
I don’t understand why, after decades of this shit, people think Republican “policy” is anything but tactical — a barrage of custom fired shitballs designed to sink any galley within range. ACA? Republican policy. Trade agreements. Republican policy. Tax reform? Republican policy. Immigration reform? Republican policy.
The problem isn’t a two-party system designed (or evolved) to exclude dissident voices. The problem is concentrated, dynastic wealth protecting itself and exploiting everyone else. That’s why the politicians of both parties (though primarily Republican) can operate without significant opposition.
The parable of Merrick displays this dynamic. A bigoted, self-righteous political operative — Scalia — dies. The Republicans immediately refuse to accept any replacement. Obama nominates a modest corporatist (let’s not offend them) and still the Republicans refuse to allow Garland’s placement on the SC. Trump wins and these agents for the wealthy can replace the mephitic Scalia with someone equally foul — and then receive their reward in the next national dispute. Belligerence becomes them.
Blaming Clinton for Trump terribly misleads and dangerously trivializes the depth and breadth of the political corruption.
The State is rotted through.
Republicans blame the Democrats. The Democrats respond by blaming themselves?
This is fucking crazy.
That “grudging respect” is simply Stockholm Syndrome.
At best.
“I reject the notion that Sanders would have won had Clinton stepped aside. The enemy yachts could have aimed at him
At one time I’d have thought the same. But with Sanders we had, finally, one candidate that had a “stealth mode” – he had no baggage anywhere approaching what Hillary had. Also, unlike Obama, who had not much political baggage at all, really, Bernie’s baggage was all about saying what he means and meaning what he says – and most important – backing up that talk with legislation to the extent that a singular, independent Senator can.
Combine that with the fact that Bernie’s message connected with millions of Democrats, former Democrats, and newly minted millennial voters and pulled them out of their slumber, to the tune of almost a quarter of a billion dollars in small donations independent of any DNC machinery, all done in order to vote for progressive policies – and I still think that he and we would have done more than enough to defeat Trump.
I agree. I’m pretty convinced Sanders would have handily beat Trump if, for no other reason, many voters who were disgusted with the choice between C & T and therefore didn’t bother to vote, would indeed have come out to vote for Sanders. And, Sanders, unlike Clinton, would not have ignored those Rust Belt voters who were seeking anything but the status quo, embodied by Clinton. Sanders also almost certainly would not have based his whole campaign on ‘vote for me because he’s so much worse’…
I assume you meant to reply to me rather than avelna2001. And, somewhere in the queue I replied… but it could be the case that not only is there a moderator-flag to the number of hyperlinks in one comment, but the number of hyperlinks offered by a single commenter. Anyhoo… TallyHo!
I think liberals are funny enough to excuse their cognitive dissonance and acute epistemic closure. I never would have thought that liberals would be lionizing the CIA as the fountainhead of truth; nor did I imagine they would get bent out of shape just by the suggestion that America is not so perfect. Who would have thought liberals would be clamoring for regime change against Syria and demonizing Putin as they push for confrontation with nuclear Russia.
I think Obama was the pied piper that lead liberals to the right of conservatives. He lead them down such a dark path that liberals tolerate or ignore his support of Nazi battalions in the Ukraine:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-06-12/ukraine-s-neo-nazis-won-t-get-u-s-money
They also tolerated the blatant imperialist act when Obama placed Hunter Biden, Joe Biden’s son on the largest gas company in the Ukraine:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/05/14/hunter-bidens-new-job-at-a-ukrainian-gas-company-is-a-problem-for-u-s-soft-power/?utm_term=.51b8c7d4d469
Imagine what liberals would do if Trump armed Nazi groups and placed Ivanka on the board of the largest gas company. This is why they are so funny now ranting about nepotism, fascism and Russian connections. The Russia thing is particular funny considering Hillary took millions from Russian interests to approve the Uranium One deal:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
I mean liberals are so hypocritical now and confused … this is great entertainment. If it wasn’t for the media that enforces this double standard and infantile need for tantrums, liberals would be laughed out of the United States.
As a moderate who leans conservative, I was appalled when Donald Trump became the Republican nominee. However, I was also appalled by the only other viable choice on the ballot, Hillary Clinton.
I believe the core problem with the Democratic Party (and with politics in general today) was neatly summarized in Obama’s quote, “We won. You lost. Deal with it.”
This seemingly innocuous quip on his part turned out to express the genuine lack of concern for the opinions, desires, and needs of half of the American voting public. It is not hyperbole to say that for the eight years of Obama’s presidency, I did not have a president (or a government) that was looking out for my interests in the least. They felt free to force whatever policies they wanted down my throat, without any compromise at all.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, and Donald Trump is marginalizing the other half of the American voting public, I’m not here to crow. I’m here to tell you that I regret what you are experiencing, and that I understand your frustration.
The only way that I see this nation healing is when the media stops turning politics into a reality show by churning up dissent and arguments for their advertising dollars… and when government officials remember that they don’t only represent the side that voted them into office.
The President, Senators, and Representatives should act on behalf of ALL of their constituents, not just 51% of them. When Republicans and Democrats start offering the public more moderate choices for election, and the media reports on “compromises”, rather than “sell-outs”, we might just get back to a functional representative government.
But, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that.
“for the eight years of Obama’s presidency, I did not have a president (or a government) that was looking out for my interests in the least. They felt free to force whatever policies they wanted down my throat, without any compromise at all.”
I am genuinely interested. What were the policies Obama rammed down your throat without compromise? What were your interests what were not being looked out for in the least? Thanks.
“What were the policies Obama rammed down your throat without compromise? ”
For starters:
– infinite war for empire
– executive mass murder, and creation of the machinery of executive murder on a staggering scale
– “legalized” executive murder of US civilians and children
– corporate welfare in the guise of a “healthcare plan”, forcibly extorting money from the populace, for garbage
– multi-trillion dollar bailouts to a Wall Street criminal class that had already robbed us of $multi-trillions, and complete excusing of their crimes
– a hyper surveillance state, with retroactive pardons for extraordinary illegal abuses
– fanatical persecution of whistle blowers
– more deportations than under the collection of all previous presidents
– a multi-trillion dollar “modernization” and “upgrade” of the US nuclear aresenal
– support for regime change and heinous regimes throughout the world, leading to failed states, and massive recruitment of terrorists.
– giving Libya to ISIS, and Ukraine to Nazis, the latter in an attempt to foment a staggeringly dangerous war with Russia
– attempts to ram utterly appalling “free trade” agreements down the throats of Americans, agreements bent solely on maximizing corporate extraction of profit from peoples and nations, and extreme exploitation of those same peoples and resources
– attempts to dismantle Social Security
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/nancy-pelosi-social-security_n_2333285.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/obamas-long-battle-cut-social-security-benefits.html
– etc. etc. ad nauseam
I know all that. I wasn’t asking you. I was asking @Mitchell Hein who describes himself as “a moderate who leans conservative”. He says “They felt free to force whatever policies they wanted down my throat, without any compromise at all.” Really?
If an ideology causes people to lose their jobs, their homes, their savings, die for lack of treatment, what good is the ideology?
right now, in America, the small minority of people with life threatening diseases either pay hundreds of thousands of dollars each…
…or they die.
The solution is to spread the cost over the entire population of 300 million citizens. With progressive taxation, most people would either pay nothing (if they are dirt poor), or they would pay much less (than they currently do for inadequate private insurance).
Wasting your time. He’s too wedded to his ideology. Doesn’t seem to register that there is no example anywhere in the world where health care delivery functions the way he thinks it can in theory. But he’s happy to use his fellow citizens as an experiment to see if it could–which logically and economically it can’t without having the very problems we have in America on an industrial scale.
He’s not disturbed that far too many die of preventable illness or treatable disease, or go bankrupt trying, or that “charity” should, could or would pick up the slack so those three things don’t happen.
Human beings are just economic widgets to him, and “markets” are the solution to every problem. I mean even saying that should sound absurd to anybody with a high school education, but sadly it doesn’t. Not to mention that there is no such thing as a “market” or a “free” one, outside “political” decisions that create the frameworks for them (from contract law, to zoning, safety regulations or lack thereof, to pollution regulations to lack thereof), and the mechanisms to enforce them.
Just wasting your time. Better to try and get him as an ally (even if for wrong reasons) on something like no wars except in self-defense.
I think we’re dead even on this one, rrheard. Right back at ya!
I would say the same to you. Tied, 2-2.
That’s not true, and it’s just ad hominem. Maybe you can just pretend that it is possible to have my position and not be some comic book villain.
The next paragraph attributes to me some mystical belief in markets populated by automatons and unburdened by real-life jurisprudence and legislation. I’ve taken pains on many occasions to dispel your false beliefs about my beliefs, obviously to no avail.
The position you describe is “free market anarchism.” I am not a free market anarchist. I am a “minarchist” and think the government rightfully exists to provide justice and protection from violence. There is no such thing as (what we mean by) a “free market” without a court system and police to enforce contracts and other property rights. But for some reason you think I don’t know that — despite saying it to you before.
You also find many ways to call me stupid in that section. I don’t know why — certainly it isn’t news that you think my position is “absurd to anybody with a high school education,” and I don’t know what you get out of it argumentatively. I think it just ends up reflecting poorly on you, making you look like some schoolyard wannabe bully whose scrawniness confines him to name-calling.
Look, we were getting along fine. If you think I’m calling you stupid again, I’m not. You’re misguided. You simply are believing in a fantasy that can never work, exists nowhere on the planet and never has, has never worked anywhere on the planet in human history, will never work as a logical matter, is immoral, and yet you don’t like to be referred to as a “comic book villain”. You aren’t. You’re misguided. You’re likely smart enough to understand the reality of your libertarian worldview, yet you refuse to accept it. It fundamentally reflects not on your capacity for reason (although it does do that) it reflects on your morality.
And just to be frank, and as we’ve discussed and agreed in the past, I type under my own name and occupation. I don’t hide my viewpoints or occupation behind a pseudonym, that’s you–the purported academic.
If you believe so strongly in your arguments, scholarship (should it exist), worldview, and its rightness and morality — why not post openly under your own name? I know very view scholars or college professors who have something to say, who hide behind anonymity to say it.
And what I get out of it argumentatively, is that I think your positions are absurd and blinkered. And I don’t know what college or university you purportedly teach at, but that you come here and try and have us take them seriously without being willing to stand behind them openly–for an academic–it isn’t just cowardly, it demonstrates that you don’t actually believe in your theories enough to defend them openly against all comers. I do. That’s why I do my best to address your arguments on the merits, but I’m never going to respect someone like you. Just isn’t going to happen–you haven’t earned it.
I always laugh at your amateur manipulative tactics to get me to reveal myself. It might work — keep trying!
I don’t want your respect. I want the contempt of the contemptible.
I’m the contemptible one? Coming from a former banker/financial grafter. Okay if you say so, my guess is your opinion is in the extreme minority again in that respect.
But for the record, I’m not trying to manipulate you, you’re too far gone into your morally untenable bankrupt ideology to even defend it under your own name. That’s all anyone needs to know. And I’d be willing to wager that I’m convincing more folks to my point of view here than you ever will to yours. So it begs the question, why do what you’re doing here? It is genuinely interesting to me, that a purported academic doesn’t want people to read or grapple with his “scholarship” or ideas, assuming it/they exist. I post under my real name because I believe, and believe I can defend on the merits, my worldview.
I suspect, that at base, like all propertarian/libertarians, you believe in world divorced from human reality. And you know it deep down. You believe your “property rights” are a function of your “individual” efforts–they aren’t. They are contingent. So your entire ideology is a grift.
I’ve spent a lot of years in higher education and have personally known a ton of academics, and you would be the first I’ve ever encountered that hides behind anonymity. Maybe it’s just something “economics” professors do, and it wouldn’t actually surprise me why you do it as a libertarian given what libertarian and classical economics professors are peddling. It’s failing on its own terms before everyone’s eyes. Your paycheck is tied up in “believing” and I can’t imagine the moments you have of moral clarity where you realize that your life means absolutely nothing morally or intellectually except to those willing to buy into the grift. Actually makes me kind of sad for people like you.
I don’t worry about people like you any more than I worry about navel or dryer lint. You’re just an annoying minor inconvenience of life.
I read the first and last paragraphs just to test whether you’re still stuck on modus redundo. Surpise! You are. Dryer lint — an oldie but goodie!
I’m not going to read the next one at all. Or anything you ever write again. Bye.
hey macroman, I just drove through SODO district of Seattle. I lost count of the number of tents set up under overpasses, parking medians, etc. There are mountains of trash surrounding many of the tent groups, too.
I get it though, about cars being so much cheaper, relatively, than they used to be.
My girl-friend’s kid lost his epi-pen, again, so no new clothes this spring. He can make do.
Mom and Dad cut their pills in half now so they last twice as long.
go thing the banks are going strong.
Could be worse, no epipens or tents at all. Or you guys could go ahead and move to Cuba or wherever they do things your way. Then you guys will have better spring clothes, I bet.
If the lack of perfection was an argument against anything, nothing would be right.
We’re not going to agree, but I’d appreciate a modicum of civility insofar as you refrain from implying that I hold my position because I want “people to lose their jobs, their homes, their savings, [and] die for lack of treatment.” In fact, I would contend that the jobs, homes, healthcare, and savings you’re concerned about only exist in the first place because of free enterprise. I also think forced, involuntary, universal health “insurance” (really, redistribution under ACA) hurts the prospects of the poors’ access to healthcare — i.e. your position hurts the poor. Now, should I automatically conclude you’re evil, or do I show basic human respect and presume you’re just mistaken?
Right, so just draw from the bottomless pot of “other people’s money,” then say nice words like “free” and “universal.” Then we’ll all skip merrily down the lane together, all healthy and happy. This way, none of us will ever die.
I’ve been a libertarian so I do grasp your premises that make you think that what you advocate is ultimately best for everyone. It was difficult for me to accept how wrong those premises are, but little did that more than seeing, in real life, corporate ownership of the legal process in NYC. At some point, reality finally totally intruded.
But I do understand that your positions can be held in good faith. (And I still get pissed when I see lefties dismiss all libertarians as being “conservatives who want to smoke dope.”)
Thank you, and I would just add that I do not adhere to a naive belief in the general incorruptibility of private enterprise, I just think the way to limit it is to limit the power for sale in Washington rather than continuously concentrating more power and wealth in D.C. (or Albany) and pretending like it won’t be auctioned off to the highest bidder. Dodd-Frank is the perfect example — let’s “regulate” the banks by letting them write themselves more power and influence. Every time we create a new agency with new powers, we are simply creating more rents to seek. Let frauds go to jail — that’s “regulation” in my book.
“conservatives who want to smoke dope”
Of course that’s not true of all libertarians. Some of them are conservatives trying to get laid.
When trying to get to get laid, it is better to say, “I’m broke, can you pay?” than it is to say “I’m a libertarian.”
The thing is Gator, as cute as that is, it’s not accurate about, e.g., Radley Balko or Julian Sanchez.
I have little interest in trying to help you see the obvious, but I have to point out that you are assuming that universal health care won’t eliminate the very, very, very highest current cost of health care now, which is insurance corporations. Without their cut, health care would cost a fraction of what it does now with them skimming off the top, the middle and bottom of the money flow.
I hope you’re sitting down, but I basically agree. Where we differ is in the story we accept of how those “insurance corporations” achieved their present position. This things are more complicated than “markets vs. states,” but for our present purposes it may suffice to characterize our difference as revolving on the weight of blame we attribute to the corporations that amalgamated all this power versus the government that set out all those goodies for sale on K Street.
Okay, but there is now plenty of data in this respect. Demonstrate that “the poor’s access to healthcare” was “better”, more widely accessible, or cheaper before the advent of the ACA.
And that is not to say I am a proponent of the ACA. I’m a proponent of no private sector health insurance (except supplemental coverage for super rich if they want it), and instead direct tax payer subsidized universal health care, on the model of Medicare.
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/
Seriously, you may not be acting in bad faith, and you may honestly believe what you believe, but all the real world examples contradict your beliefs, as does the data.
It really is interesting how someone who teaches macroeconomics doesn’t understand the fundamentals, or implications of a nation controlling (assuming it actually does) the creation of its own currency and floating it, and how taxes don’t have the relationship to government expenditures the way you seem to believe it does.
At least you are never willing to discuss or demonstrate your knowledge of those counterarguments to your libertarian ideology, in that respect, that are quite well known. Or at least you don’t do so here.
Happy to provide you plenty of links from reputable economists on those ideas if you are interested. Just say the word.
That’s not a specific position I hold. My present view on it is that it did expand access for the poor but diminished access for the middle class. It is not an insurance program, it is a redistribution program because of the preexisting condition provision. To defend the policy I do advocate, which is closer to the healthcare system in the 1950s, I am somewhat hamstrung in arguing that it was “better” because basically nothing was better before the invention of the microchip (by the government, which is pretty funny in this context). My view is based on a counterfactual that I am unable (I believe) to get you to ever share — what free-market healthcare would look like in the present. As you’ve said, there is no example to point to. On this, you are right that we are wasting our time.
I strongly disagree, and we have at least four issues at stake here: the specific history of healthcare provision, the empirical data relevant to evaluating that history, the character of current healthcare regulation, and, alas, epistemology itself. I’ll cut to the chase, though: your contention that the data, in a sense, disproves (“contradict”) my position is in fact inactionable. Ignoring Godel and Lakatos for brevity’s sake, Popperian logical positivism (which is the basis of the claim that “Data disproves X.” is scientific) cannot withstand the Duhem/Quine retort, hence your contention that the “data” contradicts my position, in a sense, can’t be true or at least can’t command universal ascension. That said, if we tried my idea and the data indicated that things were getting worse, I would change my mind. We would agree in that case that the regressions we ran were correctly specified and complete because we would essentially have a controlled experiment and escape the confines of counterfactuals. Other than that, we’re just going to argue about what variables are relevant and in what sense they are until the end of time. That gives me job security but won’t give us finality.
I was mocking socialists with the “other people’s money” bit, which I suspect you know. C’mon, dude. I say “money isn’t scarce, resources are” all the time, including on the very last GG article. Seriously, rrheard, sometimes you attribute false things to me credibly mistakenly, and sometimes you attribute false things to me that no one could be gullible enough to believe you don’t know are false. You did it here to sneak in another back-door “you’re stupid.” “You don’t even understand the fundamentals of what you study for a living, you idiot!” That’s 99% of what you ever say, and it is getting tiresome. I passed a whole lot of tests to get where I am, and I never had to pass yours. GET OVER IT! As for the second clause re: taxes and expenditures, I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. What is it you think I think, again?
That’s true. I’m not here to convince you or anyone else, and I’m certainly not here to work. I’m here to converse freely and enjoy myself. We have different personalities and motives, my friend. I like to argue, and I can do so uncensored here without alienating colleagues, friends, and family. I don’t need your imprimatur, and I have nothing vested in convincing you of this or that, despite your constant demands and commands that I rise (or stoop) to whatever argumentative standard you pick for me.
Italics accidental, sorry.
Ahhhhh, again proving my point. You want to argue what you truly believe, but you know it is so morally bankrupt or incoherent, you can’t/won’t speak openly about it to colleagues, friends, or family for fear of “alienating” them.
Got it. Thankfully I don’t have that problem. Not here and not in the real world. Again, that makes me feel incredibly bad for you, a man that doesn’t have the strength of his convictions, values and ideas for fear that it would alienate those he seeks approval from. Wow.
What I am hopeful about is that people will change the world for the better despite people like you. And we’ll still share the benefits of that changed world with you despite your misguided world view.
I don’t mean to be uncivil, but I must admit it’s hard to repress the sense of relief that I don’t need to depend on American private health insurance.
Are you under the impression that nations with good healthcare systems don’t have “free enterprise”?
And how exactly does the loss of jobs, homes, savings caused by the lack of any sane American health system, enhance “free enterprise”?
Wouldn’t de-coupling health insurance from one’s employment enhance the “free enterprise”? Or is tying workers to their current job for fear of losing their health insurance a good thing?
In summation, while I never implied that you wanted people to die, you concluded that I did, nevertheless. You did that perhaps in much the same way you concluded that the costly in lives, and money, current private health insurance market is the best America can do, despite the evidence to the contrary. And part of the reason you came to the wrong conclusion is your misunderstanding of healthcare, for example:
I’d posit that part of being civil is not writing drivel such as that. Countries outside the US are not an abstraction, they exist outside the Marvel Universe, you can go visit them (there is no travel ban).
No bottomless pit of money, no skipping (unless you want to), no immortality.
Just better healthcare systems.
Lost me already. Is the “don’t” supposed to be there?
It doesn’t. I’m starting to think you didn’t understand a word I wrote.
The coupling is a rational response to the income-tax exemption for health insurance, which itself was a reaction to legislated pay rise freezes during WW2. In other words, said coupling is not due to Scrooge McDuck but rather to identifiable policy — you know, people in generations before you that also thought they could legislate whatever they thought was a good idea and there would be no unintended consequences. Furthermore, in the very thread from which you pulled quotes of mine to start this conversation, I explicitly advocate ending the tax and other policies that have led to this coupling. So, yeah. Argue against me, please, and not against who you want me to be to make yourself feel better.
JLocke: “If an ideology causes people to lose their jobs, their homes, their savings, die for lack of treatment, what good is the ideology?”
Macroman: “…refrain from implying that I hold my position because I want “people to lose their jobs, their homes, their savings, [and] die for lack of treatment.”
Are you splitting hairs and trying to say that obvious references to my “ideology” have nothing to do with my “position?” If it were a fact that my position had the consequences you claim, then the obvious implication is that I want those consequences to manifest. So I’ll stand by my statement and you can backpeddle if that makes you feel better.
I live in London 4 months a year and spend 2 months a year at my lakehouse in Canada. Why don’t you tell me all about those healthcare systems? (rhetorical)
Is that supposed to be an argument? You’ve already said you are not here to convince people.
I don’t know how convincing I am, but I care about others, and I guess I enjoy trying to make things better. And If my words can do that, even in the slightest way, that’s where I get my entertainment.
No, seriously, on the first part, either the “don’t” is a mistake or you read the opposite of what I wrote. Of course it’s not an argument, it is what we call in English a “QUESTION.” Do you care to answer it or just babble bullshit? (rhetorical)
Totally cool about your noble aims and values, thanks for sharing.
Your “it’s the free market that’ll be the best for us all if only you’d give it a chance” credo is even more damaging to humanity than the racist and xenophobic bullshit being spewed on another thread by Craig Nelson.
I’m equally disgusted but more concerned by capitalism than I am by racism.
Why? Because racism affects less people. The negative effects of capitalism, on the other hand, is almost entirely inescapable. Under the guise of fairness, economic equality and access for all in the name of making our world a better place for everyone, the neoliberal/libertarian fiscal policies completely ignore the evidence all around them that “free market” economics, either as an economic philosophy or as a social policy has failed humanity miserably.
Racists policies are also failing, but at at least they don’t hide behind the ongoing refrain of “we just have to get better at making macros to put into our spreadsheets! You’ll see! It’ll work itself out!”
Racists want to ignore democracy outright in order to advance their ideology. Capitalists want to control democracy altogether; utilizing purse-strings instead of dialog to create a system that puts free-market ideology ahead of basic human rights such as universal health care and a decent standard of living for everyone.
Fuck free markets, and fuck you, Macroman. That’s as civil as I’ll get when confronting one of the biggest canards in human history, and those who continue to extol its virtues.
Do you want me to respond to this shit or are you just banging your head against the virtue-signaling wall?
Try, instead, refuting the negative effects of capitalism, explaining with real-world evidence how “if we just tweak this, or modulate that” capitalism, in whatever flavor you decide to defend, will make for a better world.
I’ll not wait. I’m doing everything I can to get rid of this corrupt ideology and ancillary ones like it, and you and yours are a part of the problem not a part of a solution. and you are in my way.
Some people look around at the world and view everything good as the result of capitalism and everything bad as the result of government. Others, like you, have the opposite view. Both are wrong. I don’t care what you you think, and I relish your self-righteous opprobrium. It makes me feel…better than you. I just remembered my old nickname for you: “sillyputtyforbrains” Nice to see you again!
I’m in your way, huh? Move me, then, you silly little…well, you can guess from there. I’m trying to be nice today.
You and rrheard sometimes talk like this thread is the be-all-end-all conversation that will determine the fate of humanity and the planet. I don’t think it will turn out to be; maybe I’m wrong.
So, instead of refuting the negative effects of capitalism, and explaining what you think with real-world evidence to support it, you come up instead with ““sillyputtyforbrains?”
Fuck you.
No one I know thinks that “everything good [is] the result of capitalism and everything bad [is] the result of government” (or vice-versa) – that is a vacuous statement.
What is tiring is constantly listening to either camp (which of course aren’t monolithic) extol virtues that refuse to acknowledge the reality of where such stances and the struggle between them have gotten us thus far – that it’s becoming much too costly in human terms to continue policies that are demonstrably failing most humans on the planet, and indeed, in the case of global warming, our ability to continue inhabiting the planet itself.
Let me make sure I understand. You’re saying it is incumbent upon me to refute the negative consequences of capitalism in toto? Else you’re right, qed?
Couldn’t I just point you to your local bookstore?
Maybe we just use the example of China, where tens of millions starved to death under socialism and now a much larger population eats under capitalism (or at least a system much closer to capitalism)? There are two choices: dictate resource allocation with force (socialism) or let people decide for themselves how they use their own property. Surely you know something about the world and understand which system gives people more food, healthcare, or whatever. Anyway, if your own experiences and reading haven’t given you a clue as to what capitalism achieves, nothing I say will. I don’t give a fuck what you think anyway; not my problem.
I made up “sillyputtyforbrains” years ago at Salon. I was hoping you’d remember — you’ve been spewing these “fuck yous” and “you bad, me good” statements at me for over five years now. Talk about “vacuous” — you are a typing defintion of the word.
“I made up “sillyputtyforbrains” years ago at Salon. I was hoping you’d remember — you’ve been spewing…”
Mona had thought I might have commented at Salon as well; I don’t recall ever having done so – nor have I commented at any other site as “Sillyputty.” I searched the Salon site and could find nothing, either. I started posting here at TI when it began.
If you do find a comment from me to you at Salon, please cite it. If I can attribute it to me, I’ll own it.
Be that as it may, your (and I’ll lump other libertarians in here, too, as the same mindset is an almost universal quality) inability and/or unwillingness to explain how your economic/social policy fails to account for either explaining (admitting) to your ideologies failings and to provide answers for them is all the answer I get.
As Bernie Sanders mentioned at the debate with Ted Cruz the other night: “Access doesn’t mean a damn thing.”
You and most other libertarians, continue to make the claim that your ideology is the best ideology for what ails the human race, yet you continue ignore and/or downplay the real world examples that contradict such claims. So until you and yours get on board with data that actually reflects reality, and acknowledge the limitations of “capitalism in the real world” I’ll continue to tell all of you to fuck off, all day long.
I’m traveling right now (I’m on my phone, which will be tough to use to search salon) but I’ll be happy to check later and until I do, assume you know better than I do and that was mistaken. Technically possible it was somebody else with the same name, but I remember the old sillyputty being just like you. Anyway, on the assumption above, I owe you an apology, which I sincerely offer.
I’m not sure if this will directly address what you’re saying, but I get the impression that you think libertarians are saying our way is “perfect” rather than our way is the “best” available or “better” than the alternatives. I am arguing the latter. You brought up global warming — you’re right, capitalism is not equipped to avoid or deal with it. But I’m not saying it is. I’m saying it’s the best option we have.
I think there was a ‘silly putty’ with a space.
‘the donger’ might remember.
That “virtue signaling” shit? As vacuous as: “libertarians are conservatives who want to smoke dope.”
Saying “virtue signaling” is vacuous is vacuous, Mona.
That’s not only not clever, it’s an unpleasant refusal to accept that you are doing that to another good faith commenter which you object to being done to yourself.
No, sillyputty was saying how great she was and how bad I was. That’s it. That’s what we call “virtue signaling” in modern American English. I made a ‘good faith” (plain definitional) statement to an hysterical idiot. You can think it’s vacuous, and you can say it, but it doesn’t make it so. I don’t need nor care about your charitable support nor your chin-in-the-air chastisement, thank you. I’ll say what I damn well please, and I don’t care what self-appointed internet comment police have to say about it, whether they can recognize vacuity or not, which you demonstrably cannot. Saying “virtue signaling” is vacuous is indeed vacuous, and if you reprimand me again about it, I’ll simply repeat it. It may not be clever, but at least it’s right.
What I objected to was not accurate statements reflecting my comments. I objected to “only evil people have macroman’s opinions” type statements. Pretty sure I didn’t say sillyputty was bad for her opinions, I made fun of her for saying exactly what I objected to from others all day. I hope that clears it up and you are no longer seeing any hypocrisy ghosts.
You are my peer, not my superior. Just a reminder.
For what it’s worth, ‘Sillyputty’ is genderless. I’m male, and have never commented anywhere as a female.
In the end, we’re all peers. Just a reminder.
Sorry. Granted.
Wow, have I been living under a rock. I first heard of Glenn in relation to Snowden but admittedly this is the first article I’ve read. This was top notch, especially your ability to say so much in relatively few words. We need way more exposure to articles like this about the failings of the DNC and the apparent corruption and disease that still remains. I’ll be following all of your writing very closely now, Glenn. Thank you!
Nice comment, and glad to see that you’ve, for whatever reason, finally found yourself reading, for the first time, one of Glenn’s articles.
But even though I agree with your “especially your ability to say so much in relatively few words,” I had to laugh because a common complaint in below the line comments for years was that Glenn’s articles are too long and he uses ‘too many words’ to say whatever it is he would be saying in a particular article. I generally saw that opinion to be rooted in either lazy attention span or possibly even just ordinary trolling by most of those who made those comments. But anyway, funny to see the opposite opinion being expressed by a new reader to Glenn Greenwald’s articles.
I can’t help but suggest that you’d enjoy and learn from reading the archives from not only his The Intercept articles but also The Guardian and Salon and also Unclaimed Territory. http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/
Greenwald is right: what is the use of opposing Trump so long as the alternative is as subservient to Wall Street, Big Energy, Big Medicine, and Big War as the Republicans? The Democrats needs to change their priorities and prove it by turning away donations from the four sources just named and coming out with serious policies to reverse the trajectory of increasing inequality, keep fossil fuels in the ground, medicare for all, restrict the US to using only peaceful means to influence other countries, never war except as an absolute last resort, and real steps towards global nuclear disarmament. That’s the Democratic Party we need and it has to take priority over opposing Trump if opposing Trump is to meaningful.
Are you going to try to save the republicans too?
You show that it is clear that the democrats and republicans
are in the same business, but you think that the party of liars
who call themselves democrats are worth saving.
If you “need” the democrats, then you are just asking for things
to get worse because they and the republicans are two arms
of the same corporate privatizing cyclops of capitalistic sadism.
The Democratic Party is not “broken,” it is capitalist, just as Pelosi said! Capitalism is no longer a force for progressive change in the world, and it hasn’t been since the Civil War.
Seeing someone as sharp as Greenwald arguing about how best to rescue the Democrats is pretty grim. America’s two parties of racism and war both belong in the garbage.
Absolutely beautiful, Glenn.
Glenn check out Ray Buckley, who’s also running for DNC Chair. Nobody’s heard of him, but he’s from New Hampshire and seems absolutely honest. He’s also the only openly gay candidate. Please check him out and have the intercept do some kind of comparative analysis of the candidates.
Ray Buckley 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF9gzYXAKws
Ray Buckley 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SylS0YVorJs
“Absolutely honest”????
This is the same Ray Buckley who worked on electing
Joe LIEberman, is a scheming super-delegate, and who, when
introducing Hillary Clinton to New Hampshire democrats,
indicated that they should be as excited as if they were meeting
Lady Gaga.
I’d say he is a typical faker.
I have followed the ‘race’ and I like Ray myself. But I’m rooting for Keith. We must unite and follow what the people want.
Speaking of that definition of insanity:
http://veteransforpeaceindianapolis.blogspot.com/2017/02/we-can-get-rid-of-tsa-nsa-and-cia.html?m=1
Glenn you are a true democrat ……trying to help the DNC. Otherwise , you would have given some advise to the GOP as they are as sick in the same bed.
The Democrats will have to do much better than Keith Ellison if their looking for some credibility….Read this from Black Agenda Report “Keith Ellison as DNC Chair: Another High Place, Another Empty Black Face” http://blackagendareport.com/keith-ellison-dnc
Couldn’t agree with you more (as usual). But given that 55% (I’m told) support Trump’s Moslem ban, are you perhaps overestimating voters’ knowledge?
Beautiful, just beautiful.
Glenn has nailed the true character of Chuck fucking Schumer.
People yearn for a party, and leaders, that will truly represent them. For the Dems to try to create a reality where this isn’t true, they have to twist themselves around into all sorts of grotesque shapes. Look at Pelosi’s rancid answer to the student who asked her about capitalism.
A great article, as usual. If I were going to quibble, it would be with the very notion that the democrat party can be repaired. Personally, I think the corruption is too profound, too deeply embedded to be capable of being rooted out. Better that people who in the ’60s or ’70s would have called themselves liberals abandon that party. Might I suggest joining the Green Party of the US? It appears to embody all the principles that liberals of that era hold dear: human rights, egalitarianism, social responsibility, and an economy based on sustainability and environmental responsibility. In short, the very antithesis of the democrat and republican mainstream’s core values.
Cornell West when asked if the democratic party can be reformed said no, it lacked moral integrity. I agree and that your points go to that lack of integrity. But Chris Hedges said something interesting when asked about movements and elections. He said the role of movements was not to win elections, but to put such fear in leaders and into the system that they will respond to demands and make changes. Trump in an insane way might be amendable to changes as he treats the protests against him as a TV personality looks at ratings for each show.
Not while Jill Stein is running things, its a non-starter
I understand. Lots of people, including many who think of themselves as liberals in the traditional sense, find it difficult to support a Jewish woman who is not a lawyer. So perhaps you can devote your efforts to rehabilitating Hillary Clinton. I mean, if Richard Nixon could be rehabilitated, why not her?
The DNC plan appears to be to continue to lose to the Republicans at every level for at least the next eight years.
99.9% of Americans will suffer but the 0.1% who own both parties will make out like bandits.
The only real trickle-down in America is from our 0.1% overlords to their corrupt congress critters.
” … this all happened because the Democrats are perceived – with good reason – to be out-of-touch, artificial, talking-points-spouting automatons who serve Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and the agenda of endless war, led by millionaires and funded by oligarchs to do the least amount possible for ordinary, powerless citizens while still keeping their votes.”
current mainstream democrats have zero chance of changing this, because they refuse to accept it
meanwhile, many in America are drinking deeply from the well of nationalism and prejudice, and enjoying the rich, bitter flavor
Craig Nelsen
Very slightly [edited] for accuracy
Yeah, whatever. So [I] judge the worth of an argument based on the ideological [racial] purity of the person making the argument[.] Hahaha, that’s like the definition of “[racisim]”, you know, that noxious strain that enlivens all the little wannabe Stalins out there.
You enjoy your cheap virtue, there, Doc. Trump won because the voters hate political correctness. Hatred of “racism” doesn’t win elections.
Out of curiosity, cite an example of my “racism”. If you can.
go on, tell us then.
should public policy reflect racial identity or racial separatism? should the interests of particular racial groups be codified into law within the US? should foreign policy and immigration policy be informed by racial interests? should christians (white or otherwise) be given precedence over muslims or certain other ethnic or religious groups in US law?
set us all straight, Mr. Nelsen.
As it’s actions show, the primary danger to USA is an inept White House. Vet the White House, starting with tax returns.
Great piece Glenn Greenwald. But, Dems/Liberals/Progressives now have their hands full. Monitor, challenge, protest Drumpf… a frightening character with even scarier “advisers” at his side, and grassroots bottom-up repave of the Democratic Party.
Recently, I re-watched Zeitgeist: The Movie, which pert near put the brakes on my hope for any change. It’s not easy being a caring, involved, ethical, moral human being these days. G-d (?) give us strength….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0
The biggest problem is a complete denial of the National Security State. CIA in Media is never addressed in mediated discussion so the extent of its influence and complexity of its manifestations ie faux leftism that protects CIA, is unknown. Earlier there was SOME CIA oversight by Dems . This was terminated by 1980. Dems need to use history to point out these Dems are NOT centerists . On a billionaire controlled media spectrum, centrists really means far rightists who are more efficient than their foil.
Truth, but try and convince stalwart Democratic voters of that. Blame has to be shifted elsewhere, always.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/some-democrats-push-for-an-economic-message-that-goes-beyond-trashing-trump/2017/02/08/8fb9dc5a-ee0d-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.73d5b302a9fb
Meanwhile, TPTB give lip service to the economic anxieties of the working class, while at the same time, denigrating the “liberal coastal elites”. Yada, yada, yada. They pretend to “get it”, but clearly they don’t.
The Democratic Party crash-and-burn is best viewed as separate from Trump’s POTUS victory. Glenn states that Trump and the Republicans didn’t win because there was a “massive surge in enthusiasm for right-wing extremism”. Well, maybe not a surge, but Trump’s extremism was a siren-call to the existing extremist groups of varying shades of virulence. Trump ran on the Republican ticket, but it should be obvious that he induced a crash-and-burn within the Republican Party, too. Trump defeated the Republicans AND the Democrats. I’d describe Trump as a RINO, probably a puppet for Steve Bannon at this point, and both are analogous to Jack from “Lord of the Flies”, with the Republicans acting as Jack’s consummate hunters.
Wherever the evolving and vocal resistance to Trump goes, it will go without the democratic party establishment and its Clintonista wing. In fact, the democratic party establishment will fight to channel it away from anything that remotely looks like attacking the edifice which keeps it and the elite supporters in power. A leading democrat Adam Schiff of CA said in a LATimes article recently: “The radical nature of this government is radicalizing Democrats, and that’s going to pose a real challenge to the Democratic Party…” What exactly are democrats being radicalized into that is a challenge? Stop marching on the homes of rich democrats demanding they offer up resistance? Support tuition free colleges?
Right now the democrat party establishment and its supporters are replaying the Clinton campaign themes and tactics. So we get them pushing the Russia button over and over to the point that Maxine Waters comically bashed Putin over Korea. After the Woman’s March I read that the organizers were looking at their next big march to be on April 15th demanding that Trump release his tax returns–I saw some really well posters in anticipation. Which of course was one of thee major demands of Clinton’s campaign. But really, in the face of the refugee ban, attacks on Obamacare, the ruining of our public school system, the worst cabinet selections, etc, the resistance movement is being steered into demanding Trump’s tax returns? I have a suspicion that the “Trump radicalized base” may demand more than a rehash of Clinton’s campaign.
The tax stuff is garbage. If you want to march then join the March for Science on Earth Day, April 22nd.
https://www.marchforscience.com/
What is success?
There has arguably been more upheaval among GOP leadership in winning, than there has been in their Democratic counterparts in losing. This was most apparent during the Primaries, when GOP leaders were trying to stop Trump any way they could. Had the GOP had its way, and had !JEB prevailed, they would have been much weaker in the general election, might have lost it, but GOP leadership would have been happier and more comfortable. Ironically, they’re now enjoying the fruits of their own defeat and maybe learning things aren’t so bad after all.
The Democratic Leaders, in contrast, were successful. They fought-off their disruptive challenger, ran the candidate they chose–their !JEB–and lost. They preserved (and in Shumer’s case, even advanced) their own leadership, that of the institutions they rely on, and their funding channels and methods. There was little or no cost to them personally when their party was defeated at the polls. In contrast, the disruption would have been extensive had “they” won via Sanders. The funding model would have been laid bare, there would be challenges against all congressional leaders, the ThinkTanks that fought so hard to defeat Sanders would have been severely discredited and weakened. The pitchforks would be marching, and not just against the GOP.
We generally assume that Parties want to win elections, and that winning is the measure of success. But what if that assumption is false? What if success is actually perceived as how secure individual Democratic leaders feel with their own positions of power? Is Shumer, now elevated to minority leader, really disappointed that his party lost? Does Pelosi fear anything at all from her ultra-secure district and position?
Assuming that Democratic decision makers are not actually motivated by winning elections, but rather by their own power positions w/in the party:
1. Arguments coming from the left that Dems need to change because they are losing elections at every level won’t be very effective–because that’s not how leadership defines “losing” and “winning”.
2. If above is true, Sanders’ decision to stay within the Party framework to change it from the inside seems a bad one. Sanders’ gamble is that it will be easier to change the Dem Party than to start from scratch in a third party. Again, with an entrenched leadership motivated by internal power rather than election victories, their success depends upon his failure.
This is an extremely insightful comment. Especially when you consider where the major offenders in the DNC ended up (or stayed, for that matter) and where most of the #NeverTrumpers ended up. The collective action problem is likely a huge source of cognitive dissonance among principled individuals, whereas the self-serving types that typically occupy the halls of power can probably sleep easy when collective action fails, especially when the personal cost of losing is low.
It is extremely likely that, in spite of how damaged the Democratic brand is, that it will be easier to reform the party from within than to create a viable third party.
I don’t think Sanders’ move is a gamble, per se, since the titles of the parties have remained in spite of massive policy shifts in even the last 60 years. Sanders was poised to police Clinton’s policy decisions if she were elected to keep her to the updated platform.
I think this would have been a great thing, especially seeing the posturing that many Republicans made against Trump during the run-up to the elections relative to the complacency they exhibit now.
This internal struggle within the Democratic party makes it unlikely that it will succeed give the fact that the Super-Delegate process actually prevents this.
And since it is very unlikely that this process will be replaced or modified to allow the changes needed in the part, the only real and viable option is for the Sanders delegation to actually split off and form their own part for 2018 and attempt to gain seats in the House of Representatives.
Only after something this severe is it possible that the mainstream Democratic leadership will acknowledge and concede some of their Super-Delegate powers to allow changes to occur.
Sanders and his follows should split off and attack mainstream Democrats in the very same manner as the Tea Party has done with the Republicans. It works!
part = party
Ooops. need two replacements.
I appreciate the study and logic in this article but am seeking a clarification. Do you (Glenn) believe this political change should really be top-down? That correct committee appointments will be the catalyst for a winning change? It could be true but I am a bit surprised you did not mention grassroots changes as important to the future of democracy.
That reminds me, I saw Dershowitz on CNN opining that visitors have no “property rights” to a visa.
That got me thinking…just how insane is Dershowitz?
Now I’m not an American lawyer and as far as I know, there may be a good reason based in American law to view Trump’s immigrant ban as being centred on property, rights or perhaps Dershowitz is playing devil’s advocate to entertain his audience, but allow me….
Without warning, after having spent thousands of dollars on plane tickets, after having been handcuffed, detained for hours, questioned, deported,…
for no identifiable reason beyond “the President ordered it”…
Dershowitz argues that visitors have no property rights to a visa, as if what was at issue was the physical piece of paper that their visa is printed on. Not international treaties? Not due process? Not simple compassion? No…For Dershowitz, all the terrified people, the chaos, the needless cruelty…that’s not the issue. The issue is all about “property”, that belongs to Trump’s government.
I haven’t heard the US government use this argument, but I have heard their lawyer say that visitors, immigrants, refugees at points of entry have “no rights”.
Just practically, how many times do Americans feel they need to drive home this point?
Dershowitz is Exhibit A for Max Blumenthal’s maxim that Zionism kills Palestinian bodies and destroys Jewish souls.
The government has, indeed, used the property rights question, because SCOTUS precedent has established that visa holders have no such right.
It’s the sort of argument you advance when you don’t have better ones and the other side is arguing issues arising from the 1st Amendment and a statute specifically prohibiting discrimination in immigration based upon nationality.
Dershowitz is simply despicable on questions like these and many others. This is the famous “civil libertarian” who argues that the courts should be able to issue warrants authorizing torture.
The same “civil libertarian” who debated against Greenwald in defense of the NSA’s Global Surveillance Apparatus. (And got his ass handed to him.)
This is a most unimpressive editorial for Greenwald. It starts off with the assertion that the Democratic Party is a “smoking pile of rubble” after the Obama years. Yet if just 50,000 people in the right places had not been disenfranchised by state regulations or ultra-long urban voting lines, Clinton would have won and the story would be that the Democrats were going strong. So you lost me right there. Then you come up with this insistence that Perez can’t admit the process overall was rigged without also acknowledging at the end that Clinton came up with more actual votes. I mean yeah, there’s a whole lot of crookedness out there, but how can you say the Democrats are broken without seeing a party that people have managed to make work right? It’s not the Democrats per se that are broken, but the American electoral system (by which I mean even more the lack of ranked choice voting than the Electoral College) and the American economic system (which puts huge wealth in a few hands, then pretends that the right regulations will make us all equal in the marketplace of ideas!). There is no obvious reform for the Democrats (and certainly not for the Republicans) that is going to make them a great people’s party.
“Yet if just 50,000 people in the right places had not been disenfranchised by state regulations or ultra-long urban voting lines …”
where did you find this piece of bs?
Your ability to ignore the available evidence is astounding, as good as the DNC hacks.
“Obama’s record for losses, at least through the 2014 midterms, is historically bad having overseen two horrible midterm elections for Democrats. Overall, Sabato wrote, Democrats during Obama’s presidency lost 11 governorships, 13 U.S. Senate seats, 69 House seats, and 913 state legislative seats and 30 state legislative chambers. (Our analysis of legislative seats is off from Sabato’s by three. The small discrepancy is likely due to run-offs and recounts.)”
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/25/cokie-roberts/have-democrats-lost-900-seats-state-legislatures-o/
Greenwald is EXACTLY correct. Your analysis is what’s unimpressive.
that IS the problem. the Democrats couldn’t beat Donald Fucking Trump. helloooo? the fact that, but for a few electoral college votes, as you point out, they’d have been selling the same ol’ song and things would have moved along same as ever . . . and you don’t see the problem?
West Wing has completely broken the brains of Gen-X/younger Boomers/older Gen-Y. These generation of Democrats no longer care about instituitional power. They only want to have a Smart, Masculine, Woke parental unit for them to displace their diseased fantasies of relevance onto. If Hillary Clinton had somehow squeaked in, not only would they be completely content but they’d be getting off to her fighting uselessly against reactionary death cultists. “Yaaaas, Queen Khaleesi, you GIVE YOU that heartfelt speech to the GOP about why they’re wrong for blocking your SCOTUS nominee for three years in a row. HNNNGH, this is just like my Japanese animes!”
But the fact that those 50,000 votes did not show up in the right places shows an inherent problem of the democrats–their base did not show up. It wasn’t a matter that Trump suddenly won traditional democratic voters but that he lost them in smaller margins compared to Rommey. This was not just in one state. But in speaking just about the presidential election doesn’t show the entire electoral massacre of democrats down ballot and in state races. Even if Hillary won, the democrats were beaten to an electoral pulp everywhere else.
Voter suppression is a big issue. Tom Prerez had the radical idea of having a permanent DNC employee working on voter fraud and suppression issues. But this in itself shows problems with the democrats. In the 2000 election, voter suppression became an issue in Florida. And what did the democratic leadership do about it? Nothing other than blame Nader for the loss. So the question, why has the effort to counter gop shenanigans been so weak. Having worked many election inside the polling place and outside, the answer for me was obvious. Reforming the electoral system would stop the republicans from cheating, but it would also stop the democrats from very importantly, cheating other democrats in the primaries. The long lines you complain about were used to suppress Sander primary voters. The same happened in AK when Blanche Lincoln was challenged in the primary. All the voter registration problems we saw in NY that suppressed Sander voters would not be possible. And what do democrats now focus on? Voter suppression? Nope, Putin, like Nader with Gore, caused Hillary’s defeat.
ha! even Glenn screws up the stupid blockquote thing!
;-)
Hey, Glenn reads the comments. Sweet!
Brilliant. Thank you, Glenn.
Excellent piece. Too bad the Dems chose to back a criminal instead of Bernie. I see eight years of Trump coming at us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXnY_fKXwho
Manufactured, tested and repeated “talking points” as nauseam.
Yea, hear is the “real deal”, honest-as-the-day-is-long – Joe!
I want your vote. Trust Me!
SPAM.
I sent Tammy Baldwin, senator for Wisconsin, twenty-five dollars. She publicly thumbed her nose at Scott Walker and I liked that. It took spine. I live in Colorado. She will not need to spend any part of that $25 to get my attention or win my vote.
The $25 was to say ‘you got my attention by thumbing your nose at Walker, please continue to do so. Should you decide to run for national office, I already know who you are.’ It was a one time contribution. It could just as easily been $1.
Isn’t that a large part of running any campaign, just trying to get the voter’s attention, all the more so if the candidate is a newcomer running against an incumbent? A ‘Tammy Baldwin’ 3×5 card joined the stack of politicians I’ll be watching for the next two years. The stack of cards is called ‘Worth Watching’.
Sen. Baldwin happens to a Democrat, but there are Republicans on cards in the stack too. Some are in Washington, most in state offices. I’ve been wondering if the DNC matters. I don’t think it can be reformed, even if Ellison wins, but maybe there’s another way to form a party of candidates we’ve effectively selected with our attention and support, if its broad enough.
I can’t go to my grave supporting politicians I don’t want in office, or abstaining from voting altogether. Reading through the news, looking for those in office ‘doing good works’ for the people is my work around. If we all did this, saying ‘saw what you did there’, a new party would form. And if it doesn’t, at least I can rest easy in my box, six feet under.
unpaid parking tickets. from the 90’s. and they say we don’t hold these people accountable! having gotten the important stuff out of the way, maybe they can move on to war crimes and almost crashing the world economy.
First things first, let’s get resolution on those tickets.
I hear you and this conversation does need to happen. Here is what I think needs to be woven into this argument: the issues of race and gender and representation are painful, hot parts of this whole mess. So, while everything your article presents rings true, the difficulty of the sexism in the campaign needs to be integrated. The triumph of having our first black president needs a space along with the “smoking pile of rubble” characterization. The lack of Latino voices, also eschewed by Clinton, makes a different stake in the desire for Perez. We do need a world where the best person moves into such positions regardless of gender, ethnicity, race and sexual orientation, where the best person is the one who “does the work.” But I do think this rolling pain of voiceless comes from so many places that some way–whether through a new form of rainbow coalition–to handle this pain must be part of the conversation. I struggle with this every day. I would love writers and journalists in power to help find a new way to report on this part of the story.
That’s simply not so; Clintont was endorsed and strongly supported by many, many prominent LatinX people. What is so is the gender tribalism of neoliberal “feminists” such as the Hillary Clinton faction.
Many of the women commenting here spent the election cycle being told by the Hillary faction we were anti-feminists, and disparaged as “BernieBros” in substance, for finding Hillary Clinton repugnant. That shit has got to stop.
while i appreciate the significance of Obama’s presidency as a black man and what that indicates for our society, it’s difficult not to see the “progressive” aspect of a black president as window dressing given much of the policy pursued by the Democrat Party and the role of money and patronage.
similarly, if a woman has to be a good ol’ boy to get the nod from the DNC, that hardly seems like a victory for feminism against the paternalism of the Old Guard. more like the opposite, no?
that was supposed to be;
… it’s difficult not to see the “progressive” aspect of a black president as much more than window dressing ….
i’m really sucking at this posting thing today.
Why did the Demos lose? They fell away from their Obama base of appealing to real working Americans over kitchen table issues, not for internal screw-ups regarding the political elites in the party. Ignoring the middle 2/3 of the country was foolish and refuted the successful campaigns of Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama, and Hillary should have known better. There is a strong base needing to awake to the alarm of women, retired people, and the younger enthusiasm of the next generation who will stand against bigotry and racism.
Yeah, if she had just done as good a job of pretending to care about ordinary people as Bill and Barack did. . .
touche´
Let the Democrat Party have Perez.
Sanders needs to declare himself the leader of the Independent Party with Ellison as Chairman of the Independent Party.
There is no difference between democrats and republicans – they are both Corporate owned.
What in hell is Sanders waiting for? It was within reach last July and he backed off.
Well, OK, I guess. Just like Obama happened because the Republicans failed.
The huge population of voters who voted for both men, however, are never coming back to the Democratic Party, no matter how heated the anti-Wall St rhetoric.
Some of us have been warning for decades our foolish and reckless and needless immigration policies would lead to a tribal-based spoils democracy. That day is here. From here on out, it is all about skin color and which tribe you belong to.
Thanks, New York Times!
To wit:
You are a proudly racist white nationalist who criticizes, if not outright rejects, democracy. Further, you have evinced a whole lot of wrong understanding of the Constitution and the American form of government.
In sum: Your judgment on all things political is suspect. You are here as a proselytizer for your race war gospel. Any who doubt this should simply review your contributions in this thread.
Yeah, whatever. So you judge the worth of an argument based on the ideological purity of the person making the argument? Hahaha, that’s like the definition of “political correctness”, you know, that noxious strain that enlivens all the little wannabe Stalins out there.
and you eschew the rule of law and would discard the constitution in favor of a society ruled by a contrived principle of racial purity.
Evidence?
see Mona’s link, just above.
or, tell me otherwise. do you feel that our legal system should be built around racial identity? how about our foreign policy? our immigration and refugee policy? or should those all be subject to constitutional principles?
Craig Nelsen — “would lead to a tribal-based spoils democracy”
Whaddaya mean, “would lead to”? That’s what we’ve had since the Founding.
Gator, this one has “accused” me and Doug of being “Jewish immigration lawyers.”
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a Jewish immigration lawyer (or Jewish or a lawyer of any kind–except big corporate or big banker lawyer IMHO).
It’s that KKKCraig “My White People” Nelsen thinks there is or would be something wrong with being one if you and Doug were, which you aren’t.
So not only is he a white nationalist, he’s a factually wrong white nationalist, which is totally unsurprising.
Hey Craig, are you at all interested in taking a DNA test to see what your actual “ancestry” is, if we take up a collection and pay for it, and then go ahead and post the results for all to see?
That way you’ll know who your “real people” are and so will everyone else, right?
Few are more obsessed with so-called identity politics than racists, be they white nationalists like Nelsen, or “mere” Islamophobes. My first name is common for women from several Muslim-majority, Arab countries, which has caused multiple individuals on Twitter to “accuse” me of being an Arab Muslim — because I defend the civil liberties of Muslims.
All of these hate-filled types find it impossible to wrap their heads around those of us who are universalists, who properly see tribalism as a blight on humanity. (Evolution has hard-wired us for tribalism, but it has long lost it’s adaptive advantage and become supremely dangerous.)
Few are more obsessed with so-called identity politics than racists, be they white nationalists like Nelsen, or “mere” Islamophobes. My first name is common for women from several Muslim-majority, Arab countries, which has caused multiple individuals on Twitter to “accuse” me of being an Arab Muslim — because I defend the civil liberties of Muslims.
All of these hate-filled types find it impossible to wrap their heads around those of us who are universalists, who properly see tribalism as a blight on humanity. (Evolution has hard-wired us for tribalism, but it has long lost it’s adaptive advantage and become supremely dangerous.)
I love reading your stuff. Intercept should hire you, give you a budget to do research and write about national and international events. You’re a beast!
And threatened to “expose” us, so that “white people” would “know who their enemies are.”
Hell I’ll expose myself right here righ now–I am, like all humans, a mutt . . . I’m part Scottish/English (not sure which), Spanish (via Spain and Mexico, with some possibility for Jewish ancestors through raised by my Catholic ones, but presently an atheist thankfully), and quite possibly indigenous North American.
So on the outside I’ve been told I have a very faint resemblance to Sean Connery in some ways, but I am real brown on the outside in summer, with hazelish eyes and curly black hair when I was younger and had hair.
So does that make me and my people brown-whiteish and of CatholoJew Spanglish heritage? And who exactly does that make me an enemy of? I’ll tell you who, stupid anti-humanist people.
Now the whole debate re: “race” strikes me as anti-scientific and stupid, but far too many humans on the planet define themselves or each other in those terms.
Too bad everyone doesn’t have to take a mandatory DNA test to realize there are no “pure” humans on the globe, and that quite likely we all came from the same original human stock although there is some present debate about the existence and degree of interbreeding between homo sapiens and Neanderthals and Denisovans, which seems to have occurred based on recent DNA studies.
We are all out of Africa. Both genetics and cultural artifacts (e.g., religions) have molded various population pools to have relatively minor (often superficial) differences, but they are just that — minor.
The analysis here is accurate, but one of the conclusions — resistance to Trump is futile until the Democratic Party is fixed — is dangerous, I believe. The Train is going to gain momentum. We must engage in both endeavors simultaneously! The party in power is fundamentally changing the rules as we speak.
The neoliberals trying to coopt the activism that the election loss stimulated is as apparent as their success in clinging to power to maintain control of the Democratic party.
The anti-Trump activities are draining energy and resources from the needed assault on the Democratic establishment.
GG is absolutely correct that strict adherence to an anti-Trump strategy will not bring success as it ignores the root causes of the loss of power completely.
The Democratic Party is what the Republican Party was only a few years ago, a tool of corporate America.
I’ll vote for Democrats again when they act like Democrats again.
Great article. We just have to keep wathing now what happens. If Perez really becomes the chair…then goodbye dems…
For a non American looking at this, it’s always been difficult suspending disbelief that Americans take Fox News seriously, care more about owning guns than getting healthcare, want to be at war constantly etc…
But it is only getting more difficult. I mean the obvious solution for a left wing party facing a nation with rising inequality would be to promote a more progressive tax system, that would equalize the wealth somewhat. The obvious solution would be to promote a modern single payer health system that would cost half as much and help all Americans. An obvious solution would be the closing of some of the hundreds of overseas garrisons, and a shifting of the spending to projects that benefit ordinary Americans.
But the obvious solutions didn’t line the pockets of Clinton, Obama, and their friends, or didn’t fit their Goldman Sachs ideology, or whatever money god they believe in.
Enter Trump, and his extreme, if not utterly nonsensical promises to overturn everything. Promises that most likely wont help most people one iota.
For any Americans reading this and what to know more about the national single-payer system, give this FAQ a read (written by physicians in support of national single-payer):
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq
The recent CNN debate (Bernie vs Cruz) on Obamacare didn’t hammer home a lot of these points.
Renegotiating NAFTA is nonsensical and won’t help ordinary Americans one iota?
Avoiding the neo-con war with Russia is nonsensical and won’t help ordinary Americans one iota?
Cooperating with Russia in the fight against ISIS is nonsensical and won’t help ordinary Americans one iota?
Killing TPP is nonsensical and won’t help ordinary Americans one iota?
Responding to Chinese currency manipulation is nonsensical and won’t help ordinary Americans one iota?
Avoiding, possibly, the European fate of Islamization is nonsensical and won’t help ordinary Americans one iota?
Using tariffs to level the playing field for American companies is nonsensical and won’t help ordinary Americans one iota?
I’ll be happily surprised at whatever good Trump does for the everyday American. Even if he does it accidentally.
The Democrats in the US do not constitute a left wing party. They are the near-right wing of the One Party with two right wings and they are only concerned with inequality when addressing the issue is important for securing votes, and then it is merely a matter of lip service.
Let me add another BRAVO !!!
But alas, what are the odds that any of the current DNC leadership will actually read this, let alone understand it ? … Ostriches in the Sand …
Current DNC leadership probably believes that Trump is going to be such a disaster that Democrats will win back Congress in 2018. This is a pretty speculative position, but in line with their similar beliefs about Hillary Clinton. The DNC leadership lives in a little corporate bubble of wealth and priviledge and can’t understand why anyone would be so upset about the status quo. So they feel that if they hang on to control of DNC leadership, then they’ll arrange for corporate Democrats to get into office in 2018, and then they’ll have Hillary Clinton run again in 2020, and gosh, she’ll finally win!
That seems to be their game plan, doesn’t it? And this is why the struggle for control of the DNC is so important; if the Clinton-Obama faction (Tom Perez) takes over, it’ll be more disaster, more service to Wall Street, more lost elections.
Unfortunately (for the Democrats if they don’t learn from this article), I think you are very correct ! I agree, and I remember the Saturday Night Live skits (accurately) embracing the idea that Clinton was thrilled Trump would be the Republican nominee —- we see how that turned out …
And I was astounded to observe the “amazing revelation” (generated by our Deep State) that Clinton lost because of the “shocking” discovery that Russians spy on / hack us, and try to influence elections. Well duhhhh …, ya think ?
Also unfortunately, I think too many women feel it was misogyny (vice the failed/misguided philosophy) that defeated Hillary. It would have been great if Clinton had chosen Elizabeth Warren (a Sanders-style progressive) to be her running mate, vice a another bland, too-cozy-with-Wall-street, go-slow incrementalist … but it would take too long to list all the mistakes the Clintonites made on the way to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory …
As the zen master says: “We’ll see …”
Last time I checked
Sanders and Warren were both “Clintonites.”
Sanders opposition was tepid during the primaries and Warren
did not dare to go anywhere near a Sanders endorsement.
As soon as Sanders did his official cave in, as he indicated
he would do from the start, they both enthusiastically
distanced themselves from what Sanders was previously
acting as if he represented and they
embraced the “Queen of Chaos” and her misrepresentations and
obfuscating corruption.
They are typical of the democrats fraudulence.
They are republicans who lie.
Chris Hedges does a pretty good job blasting Bernie about being a Democrat (vice 3rd party), and Bernie certainly could have done many things better — he and his campaign also made many mistakes, most notably their lackluster outreach to minorities, who might have pushed them over the top, especially in the south.
But being too much like Clinton was not among the mistakes. If they seemed close together in views, it was because Hillary couldn’t run fast enough to the left after Bernie started beating her in all the traditionally strong Democratic states. Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y ?
That sums it up nicely.
It’s not going to be a popular vote, the choice of DNC Chair, is it? It’s going to be the choice of the Clinton/Superdelegate elite.
And it’s pretty clear who they are leaning toward.
Keith Ellison could be the progressive’s dream candidate, and the super-delegates would respond with: “Yeah but how does giving control of the party to regular Americans profit us? The One Percent???”
What would people who have already rigged the primary race, possibly have to gain by choosing a progressive leader? And their choice, Perez, who isn’t any more interested in having an honest conversation than is Kelly Anne Conway, is perfect for them.
I wouldn’t go quite that far. Anti-BDS, switched positions on accepting corporate lobbyist donations . . .
https://34justice.com/2017/02/08/ellison-for-dnc-chair-it-matters/
But, on balance, I think a significant and meaningful step in the right direction for the party.
I totally agree, to clarify, I meant hypothetically he COULD BE …in other words…”Even if he was”.
I’m not claiming that he IS.
I think it is true though, that, as is Sanders, he’s clearly too progressive for the existing Democratic leadership and is also, well, among the best progressives have….if you overlook the parking violations.
You can wait for heaven to send the “anti-Trump”, a benevolent, ethical, coherent billionaire to save you….
Short of that, you can swamp the Democrats with new member and use your new votes and what remains of democracy within the Democratic Party to swap out the existing corporate Dems with the most progressive voices, or not. There is no third choice within the party structure.
You either have the people power or you don’t.
He also promised the DNC electorate he would try to pry Sanders’ voter/contributor list from his still-warm, flexible fingers, completely ignoring that the list would be worthless to them as long as they still keep clinging to establishment means and methods.
I almost relish the opportunity to blister a few DNC lackey ears if they succeed and then have the nerve to start calling. It will be a pleasure to tell them to go fuck themselves and/or their Wall Street masters.
I wish they would pick Ellison. Not only does he seem like a pretty good dude, but I hear Alan Dershowitz has threatened to leave the party if Ellison is chosen. Win-win!
Agreed. But what Glenn is getting at, and I think if you go to LGM’s threads today and see that they still aren’t getting it, is that this strategy of “more Dems” in whatever marginal races the loser Democratic party apparatus is willing to contest, doesn’t begin to address the underlying problem.
The problem is that the Democratic party “brand” (as currently constructed) is dead. Bernie Sanders showed where the intra-party fissure is. You can’t claim to be the party of the working class while also being the party of the capitalist overlords. It simply isn’t doable, there is no “needle that can be threaded” in that respect.
Now “centrists” don’t see it that way, because they think their ridiculously complicated ineffective technocratic solutions to people’s economic woes, are actually smart policy and smart politics. It isn’t. And they don’t get that. The vast majority of humans and American voters aren’t technocratic policy wonks looking for complicated solutions to a complicated world.
The simple fact of the matter is there are, and will remain, some simple solutions to problems even in a complicated world, but they involve progressive taxation of the ultra-rich and corporations (and using the arguments that work to motivate a significant majority of Americans to understand why that good, fair and just), that higher union saturation raises everyone’s wages, demonstrating why Medicare for all is cheaper for all, that getting off the oil nipple and transitioning to all green infrastructure (and rebuilding all the related energy infrastructure to accommodate it) would create a decades long good job creating boon . . . .
But Dems can never speak clearly to any of that because they are too wedded to their corporatist/ultra-wealthy funders. That has to change, otherwise they have no credibility with way too big a proportion of their “coalition”. It won’t hold. It didn’t hold. And they will continue to hemorrhage registered party members.
Those goofs are still stuck in the backward analysis of “electability” or “only fight fights you think you can win” or “Manchin is better than an R”. That’s what is losing the Dems elections is that sort of short-sighted thinking. You build credibility from the ground up, by having a coherent nationwide policy platform, and then spending the time, resources and human capital to sell it door to door all across the nation in every precinct, every district, every race (and you contest them all) . . . .
If they don’t figure that out, they’re dead meat forever.
Thought you’d sworn that group off…..;)
I generally still go over to check out the comments after Glenn has posted a big piece challenging the Democratic party or centrism, just to watch it devolve into irrational petty attacks on Glenn or Fredrick DeBoer because they are incapable of addressing the plain truth that is staring them square in the face. I find it amusing and I like to stay abreast of their shitty arguments.
Loomis seems to be coming around from what little I’ve been there, but he’s still not quite getting the big picture. His actual writing on labor history in America is quite good, and that’s why I started going there in the first instance, not Campos, Lemieaux, Farley or any of the other nobodies.
I mean a blog that actually thinks any liberal/progressive cares about a regular column on military technology, is pretty far “right” on balance to begin with.
I went over there once after you posted a link. I couldn’t believe the amount of ignorance there was over there about basic things Glenn had been writing about For Years….literally.
Wow, I wasn’t aware of that aspect of it. Amazing. Talk about not really knowing who your audience is….huh. ;)
This article completely reflects my views. Corporate coddling is what the Republican Party is supposed to represent. Democrats are supposed to stand up for the average American worker and their plights. Democrats have to come up with a real solution to poverty in Kentucky, and other states where good union jobs have been stripped from the landscape and replaced with unregulated corporate misbehavior.
fantastic work, as always
Great article by Glenn again, but what will this achieve? So few journalists talk about truth these day, would his voice even be heard? I am starting to lose faith that anything can be done due to the level of corruption in mainstream media. Doesn’t matter how bad this scam lose, they will always move to protect their interests and the grassroots will always stay divided to make a change. What politicians did to the whole USA (divided all of us into groups like liberal, conservative and such), the democratic leadership is doing to grassroots (feminists, LGBT, BLM, Bernie Bros and such). Keep them divided and fighting with each other so that they don’t notice how they are getting raped.
Obama has created the mightiest killing machine: seven wars in the Middle East on his watch (to appease the Lobby), the extrajudicial killings (in violation of the US Constitution); cooperation with neo-Nazis in Ukraine and active encouragement of the ongoing civil war there; cooperation with “moderate” jihadis (Al Qaeda affiliates) in Syria; the deployment of the US service men and women (40.000 to be precise) in Lithuania and Poland on a border with Russian Federation. Welcome WWIII – the “parting gift of the faux peace laureate.”
Obama is a toxic puppet with charms. But the “progressives” and other “pink-pussies” cannot have him enough. “Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad”
Perfectly put, funny and sad at the same time, The last phrase really sent shivers up my spine. I hope gods are “destroying” the party and not all of us.
Obama hardly “created” the mightiest killing machine, that machine was in place long before him. And Trump isn’t going to dismantle it.
What Obama did was make it WORSE, not better.
I said he didn’t create it, nothing more. It’s like this shit just started to some people.
“Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad”
I hope you’re alluding to the trumper with that statement, but I fear it is self-referential. If you really believe Obama is to blame for the mightiest killing machine, may I suggest you do a bit of studying? History and political economics might be a good place to start.
Oh but you’ve probably just got that ‘info’ from Breitbart: they know all about toxicity.
“Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad”
“per alta vade spatia sublime aetheris, testare nullos esse, qua veheris, deos.”
SENECA (who knew all about the education of madmen)
…sorry to break it to you, it is all the folly of scheming humans!
People will soon see dt is actually the democratic president they have been waiting for. Despite all the smears he’s going to be a great president.
Thumbuddy got 3 turds in his toilet bowl from the human manure-spreader, Frederick Christ Trump’s child.
@Macroman
You simply do not get it. Hillary Clinton lost to Donald fucking Trump. Donald. Trump.
His negatives were and are incredibly high –indeed he currently has the highest negatives of any new president since the pollsters began monitoring public sentiment. (NB: such polling is not subject to the same errors as determining likely voters per electoral college politics and thus getting the predictions wrong.)
A turnip should have been able to defeat Trump. Hilary Clinton lost to him because, despite her own great unpopularity, the Democratic oligarchs just had to see her crowned.
As Glenn’s link to the Yglesias piece shows, Democrats are a steaming hot mess, losing at all of: the federal, state and municipal levels. THAT is a party in extreme distress.
A turnip should have been able to defeat Trump.
Well, yeah. Turnip’s are delicious. :-)
(resolves to donate all future turnips to pedinska)
I agree with everything you said. My only point is that the GOP is in the same boat; we just look good right now because we got lucky. In another comment on this same thread, posted prior to yours above, I stated:
So, I get it. All I’m saying in the quoted phrase above (which is abundantly clear in context) is that the DNC is not in as as bad a shape as it currently seems because the GOP isn’t in as good a shape as it currently seems. And all the DNC has to do to make a comeback is beat the GOP. The DNC is a victim of its own competence at cheating, and we in the GOP are the lucky beneficiaries of our own abysmal failure to cheat to suppress Trump. None of that means “All’s well at the DNC,” unless you take the quote you used above as a standalone statement, which some readers of your comment alone (and not mine below) will naturally assume was the case.
Sorry — to clarify, when I say “in the quoted phrase above,” I am not referring to the quote immediately above but Mona’s quote of me: “Democrats are not in as much trouble (as a party) as they currently seem.”
Perhaps I misread you — for me it is early and I’m not fully caffeinated. But about this:
Of course they will be the beneficiaries, in the midterms almost certainly, of wide and deep objection to Mr. Trump — but that won’t cure what afflicts them at the state and municipal levels. It also cannot give them the heft they need to become a real and dominant force at the national level.
When the base pretty much hates those who supposedly “represent” them, only being able to say they at least are not the Trump GOP, that’s wholly insufficient. At some point, if nothing changes, the throngs who are unrepresented are going to shed blood in the streets.
“At some point, if nothing changes, the throngs who are unrepresented are going to shed blood in the streets.”
Agree most assuredly, and with a generous helping of trepidation. Blood in the streets is NOT the society in which I wish to live, yet that is where we’re headed. Thanks, Mona.
Not sure what the metric is for the above to lead you to that conclusion–electorally the GOP controls 2 of the 3 branches of the federal government, and possibly all 3 depending on how Kennedy swings in any particular Supreme Court decision (and likely all 3 absolutely if one of the liberals retires or dies). And they hold a significant majority of state level executive positions and legislative branch majorities.
So how are they weaker than they seem?
As a function of policy, and with the exception of possible “free trade” or “debt/deficit” depending on how Congress and/or Trump attempts to fund its agenda, the GOP is in a position to create precisely the policy universe it has long sought. Do you believe for some reason Trump isn’t going to sign whatever legislation Ryan and McConnell have cooked up and put in front of him? If so in what policy arenas?
Now I’m not saying there isn’t some inherent weakness for the GOP long term, but it is only in one respect–that in getting what they want policy-wise all over the nation, it might be a case of being careful what you wish for in exercising power. When the consequences of that exercise of power start trickling down and creating hardships for the GOP base that Dems can tie to all Republicans and Trump all over the country, the Dems (if they can take advantage) could see an electoral landslide (most likely at 4, 6, and 8 years out).
Otherwise, I’m not sure how you don’t perceive that through luck, cunning or skill, that the GOP hasn’t just run the table in America and is as strong as they’ve ever been since Reagan, if not stronger.
And that’s without Trump starting a war and nobody knows how that may play to his popularity (now I think poorly but in this country who ever knows, but far too many are bloodthirsty lot who love their war porn or the false belief that we’re somehow spreading liberty and freedom by blowing men, women, children and old folks up).
And, Trump will have appointed a majority of the Fed governors by this time in 2018, including the chair and (one) vice chair, so the GOP will also control what we might agree is the fourth branch of government.
My contention is that the current political power of the GOP is the result of luck. I think a DNC comeback will be easier than the DNC people seem to think. Yes, the DNC is corrupt, incompetent, etc., but so is the GOP. I am not saying the GOP is presently weak (far from it) but that the GOP are vulnerable in future elections, even the 2018 midterms.
Your next two questions — honestly, I have no idea. If your point is that, if they implement their agenda, people will like it and the GOP will stay in power, then that will all depend on the content of the legislation, and I again have no earthly idea what these people will do. For example, they want to repeal/replace the ACA but retain the “preexisting conditions” bit, which for me and my political ilk is the main reason to repeal it. So, I don’t think they’ll get the credit they expect they will for that one.
Yes, indeed. That is more-or-less what I’m trying to argue.
I wouldn’t include “cunning or skill” there, but yes. We were blindsided by Trump, tried to stop it, failed, and won everything because we failed. Luck is what it was, success in spite of, because of, a failed strategy. And strong, yes, invulnerable, no — even if the DNC isn’t reformed.
On wars, I’m starting to get nervous about our posture toward Iran. Flynn is batshit. He needs to go, immediately.
@ Macroman
I know I’ve had harsh words for you in the past, and you for me. But I tend not to hold grudges in real life, and clearly there are things libertarians like you and lefties like me might agree on, and even fight for together (whether for the right or wrong reasons doesn’t necessarily always matter), like not doing something monumentally stupid like starting a war with Iran.
I’m sure we’ll never agree about certain things, but that’s okay by me if we find common ground on some of the important ones like how economically wasteful (and unjust and immoral) are wars not fought for a narrow band of political or economic “interests”.
Not sure what you mean by that one, so not sure how to address it. So you and your “ilk” think people who have preexisting conditions should be priced out of the health care market, or otherwise not have affordable access to it at all? Be curious how you get to that conclusion, if I’m understanding it correctly, economically and morally.
Sure, thanks; I second your first two paragraphs.
By “ilk” I meant libertarians and libertarian-ish conservatives.
Replace “care” with “insurance” and that’s essentially my position. But really I don’t want to dictate or have the government dictate the nature of health insurance contracts, so who is priced out and where, etc. I view as the individuals’ involved business and not the government’s.
This brings us to familiar territory that we probably don’t need to re-traverse. But your wording brings us to the crux of the issue, so I’ll just say: We both want as much and as good healthcare available to as many people as possible. We disagree on means. I believe we will make healthcare cheaper, better, more available etc. if we get government out of it (repeal ACA, medicare, medicaid, AMA licensing, pharma patents, tax exemptions on health insurance from employers, and so on — I mean the whole shebang!). And I also think in that situation we will get more private charity than you might expect. Such a world wouldn’t work out perfectly but simply better than the current system, I contend. Now, you think I’m crazy, but that’s OK.
Fair enough, we don’t need to “re-traverse” the latter paragraph, but I would say that a lot of countries seem to be a living refutation of this:
. . . and not a single solitary existing example anywhere on the globe that demonstrates you can achieve what you “believe” is possible employing the “means” you advocate. In fact, given there are many economists in the world who say that “health care” is quite obviously not well suited to “market dynamics”, I’m a little surprised you hold that view. But we don’t need to dwell on this because ultimately I think libertarians will never prevail on this argument in the long run, so it is fine by me you hold a minority viewpoint on this that will likely never become reality.
And if you could point to a single example anywhere in the world where “charity” is taking up the slack for universal basic human good like “basic health care”, I’d be real interested in reviewing your data.
Patents are a different matter, and we might agree on some of that.
Right, since there is no example (of fully free-market healthcare), the only way for us to agree is for us to agree on the counterfactual world. I’ve never figured out how to argue someone out of their own imagination, so I gave up on that type of argument years ago, in social settings at least. We (economists) still adopt counterfactual arguments in print, though, but that probably contributes to our impotence more than anything else. Regardless, you’re right that there will likely never be 5% or more of the electorate that holds my position, so in practical terms it’s not an issue worth discussing for anything other than entertainment. I’ll be happy if we can all just agree that “free” healthcare doesn’t exist.
Fair enough.
I would agree that, at present, there is an economic “cost” associated with the provision of all goods and services that human beings use (except that given to others as strict charity, but which of course does not obviate the reality that there was an original “cost” born by someone or many prior a good or service being received as a “chartable contribution or gift” to another.
So in that sense, nothing is “free”, but that’s also irrelevant. The question is how do we as a society choose to fund and distribute certain goods and services that people need and want, particularly “public goods” (although you probably don’t even accept such things exists, nor should they, which makes me incredibly sad, but whatever I think you’re in the extreme minority in that respect) from the “wealth” that all human beings marginally contribute to the creation of, and to its use.
While I would like to think charity would begin at home and would help with our health care crisis, I do not see that as a big part of the solution to the currently broken system. I see health care as a moral issue and think the richest country in the world should be able to figure out how everyone can have it.
i understand why you might look at it that way, and i suspect most people do. we’re rather accustomed to seeing much of the world, not to mention the political spectrum, in such dualistic terms.
but i don’t think it’s the right way to look at it. the success of the 2-party system depends on it being a closed loop. one party always and inevitably leads us back to the other. just look above and below, in this thread, and witness how the sins of US policy are discovered anew each and every time the Executive changes hands, even though these policies persist over generations, and certainly across the admins of both parties. Americans simply ignore or forget, every 8 years. this yet another reason to fault the idiotic hubris of the Dems, running such a smug, clueless, tone-deaf jackass after they’d held the WH during the prior 2 terms.
in this manner, R v D is an impressively stable paradigm. this is, i believe, the central pillar of the success of our 2-party system. the adversarial nature of their relationship belies the underlying symbiosis: they absolutely need each other.
if one falls, the other isn’t far behind. and i think that may have played out to an extent in this election. the Republicans were off the reservation from the outset and everyone could see that. the subsequent implosion of the DNC was a bit more of a surprise, but it was arguably part of the same dynamic.
but i firmly believe they need each other. as with any closed system, remove one element, or add a significant external element, and the whole system falls apart.
In PRIVATE, yes we may have, possibly made some minor miscalculations (kind of like we sometimes get caught miss-speaking)………………….but because we are an institution ABOVE making any actual mistakes, we will NEVER ADMIT the possibility of making mistakes publicly.
MISTAKES are a sign of weakness and as every BULLY knows – show any sign of weakness and you instantly loose your POWER.
A far better strategy is to OWN both parties, so you always keep POWER and never have to show weakness.
The Democrat party failure to be the party of the people is a symptom, not the disease.
The disease is arrogance, and its so deeply embedded in American society and culture that in many ways, it is as unnoticeable to Americans as water is to fish.
It may be possible to ‘fix’ the Party (the realization that chasing the Republicans off the cliff to the right end of the spectrum is a losing strategy because it leaves so many voters too alienated to see either party as being worth voting for that the Trump strategy could win might take hold, after another loss to it, but I doubt it, and even if it does, undoing all the mechanisms that have been put up, and grown up, during the swing to the right that marginalized the center and left will be the work of decades, just as the erection of them was) but that will be the easy part, disassembling the social and cultural structures that have grown up in America that disconnects Americans from reality will be harder, and time is running out. A child born today is going to be starting their career in a world where the US is the THIRD biggest economy (economists are saying that India will be the next country to pass the US) and politically, socially, and geographically disconnected from the trading and financial center that links the majority of the world of then.
“One can spend all of one’s time and energy denouncing Donald Trump. But until the systemic causes that gave rise to him are addressed and resolved, those denunciations will do little other than generate social media benefits and flattering applause from those already devoted to opposing him.”
I’ve made this point time and again to my liberal friends and associates, to no avail. I’m not sure what it will take for people to wake up to the realities of our two-party system. Still, I continue to be encouraged by the work of Greenwald and others willing to speak truth. Thank you!
Well, those are certainly the flaws at the Convention level, and Greenwald nails it. But that’s only part of the problem.
As someone who considers himself a more moderate-leaning Liberal, the problem is that the far Left is starting to become the face of the party at the constituent level. The ones who deal in moral absolutism, who impose their narrow and arbitrary morality on others, with no consideration for context. The ones who prefer to write off, label, and ignore those who express an idea they don’t like, who are afraid to debate. The Liberal version of the Right’s Puritans who hounded us during the 90s.
If you’re not willing to be rational, to listen to the arguments of the other side, no matter how repugnant, to try to determine and understand the basis for them, then the public at large will never side with you, regardless of whether or not you have the moral high ground.
The attitude that we need to shield ourselves from “bad ideas” need to be discouraged, from within the party. You have to analyze them if you are to defeat them.
Absolutely great post. The tendencies that you speak of are very ignorant and cowardly. If they really believe they have the high ground, then why are they afraid of debate? The truth is most of those people are hypocrites and because of that their “outrages” are “resistance” will achieve nothing.
I understand what you’re trying to say, but consider this: F**K YOU! If an idea is out of bounds, then it needs to be called out as such. Any speaker of verbal violence must be shamed and harangued until they shut up, or better, get their mind right. There is no ambiguity in right and wrong, and if you are on the wrong side of an issue, then I don’t care what party’s letter goes in front of your name. Tolerance means acceptance of those who actually ARE different, not that we are obliged to accept wrong-thinking and evil ideas! Those ideas need and deserve to be cut out like a cancer.
Clearly you understand what I’m implying, because you’re a prime example of it. There absolutely IS ambiguity in the subjective concepts of “right or wrong.” This kind of attitude leads to oppression and war in the long wrong. Read up on “Horseshoe theory”. RationalWiki actually has a fairly objective article on the topic.
the problem is that the far Left is starting to become the face of the party at the constituent level.
First, there is no “far Left” in this country to speak of. If you were to insist on this in a discussion with folks from Europe and the rest of the world you would be either ignored or laughed at.
Second, heaven forfend that vox populi should start expecting their politicians to actually, you know, represent the people who elect them and whom they are expected to serve. That whole “public servant” thing is so passe.
The ones who prefer to write off, label, and ignore those who express an idea they don’t like, who are afraid to debate.
Perhaps you missed it, but the folks on the “far Left” were not the ones limiting debate. The two major parties have, despite considerable opposition, refused to open the debating process up to other candidates. They saw what could happen when Ross Perot was allowed to take the stage with them and made sure it could never happen again by setting up false barriers in order to create their own safe space where no one would be permitted to challenge the orthodoxy in any way, shape or form. They even went so far as to have Jill Stein arrested for attempting toe merely attempting to enter the debate grounds at Hofstra back in 2010.
If you’re not willing to be rational, to listen to the arguments of the other side, no matter how repugnant, to try to determine and understand the basis for them, then the public at large will never side with you, regardless of whether or not you have the moral high ground.
The above statement fully epitomizes the actions of the democrats in refusing to recognize, countenance or legitimize in any way the complaints from their base that have cost them so dearly in elections at every level for the past 8-10 years. To say that their voters don’t understand them is to enable the blaming that they have been engaged in ever since Sanders almost beat their status quo to the nth degree candidate. On the contrary, their base understands them all too well and that is why they have been rejecting them at every level of government to the point where the GOP controls the vast majority of governmental offices all across the country at almost every level. To ignore that is sheer suicide.
The attitude that we need to shield ourselves from “bad ideas” need to be discouraged, from within the party.
That’s exactly what the “far Left” has been trying to tell you, but keep turning a blind eye and deaf ear and see what it gets you. There are still a few corners where dems haven’t yet been purged/abandoned. The rest of us will be trying to find a better way forward, with or without you.
“First, there is no “far Left” in this country to speak of. If you were to insist on this in a discussion with folks from Europe and the rest of the world you would be either ignored or laughed at.”
No doubt. And Bernie Sanders is not a “socialist.” I speak in relative terms, within the context of the United States. The election protesters, who don’t seem to realize that they’re protesting Democracy itself (but feel free to protest his policies). The Berkeley College protests, simply because the speaker is admittedly a contrarian slimeball. But one with a right to speak his piece. Every Liberal who has cut ties with friends and family for speaking the “wrong” opinion on twitter, without any further debate. I seen it happen, all the time. As a millennial, I’m right in the middle of it, but I sometimes feel like no one else is saying “woah, guys, settle down.”
“Second, heaven forfend that vox populi should start expecting their politicians to actually, you know, represent the people who elect them and whom they are expected to serve. ”
A fair argument, but I maintain that these folks are a minority. A vocal minority that few within the party have the gall to argue with. No one wants to be the first to argue with those who fight for groups which have been historically oppressed. That sentence alone leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But they should not be above scrutiny. The Alt-Right have poisoned this debate with their hyperbole and racism. I don’t endorse any of that. I’m simply calling for objectivity.
“Perhaps you missed it, but the folks on the “far Left” were not the ones limiting debate. The two major parties have, despite considerable opposition, refused to open the debating process up to other candidates.”
Well, the DNC certainly refused. Whether or not Trump get elected thanks to or in spite of the RNC is something I should look into. Regardless, you won’t fix the Left’s image problem simply by fixing the DNC. That’s just one step.
“To say that their voters don’t understand them is to enable the blaming that they have been engaged in ever since Sanders almost beat their status quo to the nth degree candidate.”
Obama was a bit of a do-nothing president who maintained the status quo when changes are absolutely needed, sure. I question the BLM movement but absolutely agree that we need a criminal justice overhaul. End the war on drugs. Reform our prisons, and stop using them as a dumping ground for the mentally ill. Single payer healthcare. I’m all for all of that, and I think that’s where our views converge.
“The rest of us will be trying to find a better way forward, with or without you.”
Maybe “far left” was an inaccurate term. Problem is, “SJW” is a loaded one, lazily used with a built-in implied bias. But to deny that there are plenty of folks out there who take their moral crusades too far, or use their causes to shield themselves from scrutiny, or who go out of their way to ignore context and see oppression where it does not exist, is equally biased, and I feel that helped cost us the election.
i tend to see this matter in similar terms to Pedinska, but i also think you are correct. there are a lot of really, really shrill voices out there.
If you’re not willing to be rational, to listen to the arguments of the other side, no matter how repugnant, to try to determine and understand the basis for them, then the public at large will never side with you, regardless of whether or not you have the moral high ground.
This sounds like common sense, but that doesn’t mean it’s valid. In fact, I think the Republicans have proven you wrong here.
In other words, I agree with you that some highly visible factions of the left are too absolutist and authoritarian, but I don’t think that matters much.
The world thanks you in that your limousine liberal mindset has resulted in the election of a clown who should have lost 50 states. Your demand of purity in supporting Hillary Clinton, instead of being pragmatic by choosing Sanders instead, gave the whole thing away.
Thank you, Glenn Greenwald. Excellent analysis.
The Democrats are not capable of self-reform. They still think pushing their identity politics into every Americans’ face is the way to ‘win.’ What a joke.
They have proven incapable to do even this; it becomes even more entrenched everyday. After all, we all witnessed the ugly display of vicious fascism by the black draped thugs pretending they were tolerant! They’re apparently crazy as loons.
They need to be sent to the wilderness. When they stop hating Americans, they can come back. When they have something constructive for Americans, instead of courting globalism which hurts the American citizen, they can come back. When they act like adults and not puerile whiners, they can come back.
And they can take their new slam ‘white privilege’ against blue collar America, and paint themselves first with hypocritical intolerance. They are the embodiment of it.
Quo vadis, Democrats?
Sadly, as long as the rich finance elections I feel little will change.
He who has the gold … which leads to campaign finance reform.
Glenn, the point of your article is well-taken and as always, scratches below the superficial. But may there perhaps be deeper story beyond blaming the DNC’s slavish capitulation to corporate overlords? After all, the Republicans have their own corrupt agenda as well. Might it be a systemic issue, i.e. the deep state runs the show. Changing the guard at the DNC, even if that guard speaks more bluntly and honestly, will not change a thing because the DNC, the RNC, the Democrats, the Republicans and all their representatives do not run this country. http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/
DNC candidates, like Ellison need to be railing against the 2016 Dem Primary and using it as an example of something that will nvr happen again-or exactly what needs to be fixed. Where are the cries against superdelegates? Where are the statements of opening up primaries and eliminating causes and closed primaries? Where are the candidates willing to denounce corp. $ in the DNC and Dem party?
Those are the points which need to be shouted from the highest mountain and lowest valley is the Dems are serious about party reform.
That link (anatomy of the deep state) is a long read, and relatively ‘old’ (2013), but well worth the effort imo.
*at least, the closing sentence seems oddly dated …
As far as I’m concerned, here are actual photos of the fucking DNC Deep State (on vacation) … http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a8686102/photos-of-obama-relaxing-tropical-vacation/
We will never forget that the corrupt DNC cheated us out of President Bernie.
We will never forget that the corrupt DNC inflicted Trump on America. Trump is the DNC’s choice and the DNC’s responsibility.
Before they win anything ever again the Democrats will need to clean out the DNC and permanently defund all supposedly Democratic congress critters who have supported Trump in any way.
The Democratic Party in the US is a cancer. Don’t wring your hands, the Repubs are the Bubonic Plague by comparison. Just talking about the Dems here. I’ll give an analogy, and one that ironically Dr Ben Carson is actually a qualified expert about. So the Dems are cancer and the people are the body politic. My mother had cancer when she died. We didn’t debate cancer. We didn’t ask it nicely to depart. We didn’t ‘give it another chance.’ We tried to kill it in the least harmful way first, and progressed to the harsher treatments. None of it worked, and while we were happy to use cannabis to mitigate the side effects, we were forced to have the cancer removed. We cut the bad away from the good. We sent it to a lab so we knew exactly what it was and how to kill it quickly in future. Then we incinerated the cancer, thereby destroying it. The Democratic Party can not be reformed. Bernie is giving us a gift. His place in history is assured. He could retire. Instead, he continues to shed light. The importation of pharma drugs from Canada? He was always gonna lose that fight, but he showed us the REAL Dems, didn’t he? He gives the Dems EVERY opportunity to be heroes and they show us that they’re ZEROs. My mother taught that you can’t hear people speak when their actions scream loudly. The opposition to cancer remains the same regardless of the type cancer. The time has come to explore those pathways that encourage removal of the cancer and a return to a healthy lifestyle, or the body politic (us) will die.
“the Democrats are perceived – with good reason – to be out-of-touch, artificial, talking-points-spouting automatons who serve Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and the agenda of endless war, led by millionaires and funded by oligarchs to do the least amount possible for ordinary, powerless citizens while still keeping their votes.”
BOOM!
Or maybe DJT won because the eligible voters who actually tried to participate in the election didn’t like anyone; DJT was the least objectionable to actually bring about substantive change, not just talk about it.
Sure he’s an uncouth quasi-politician that has none of the CEO-Politician-guarded way of communicating and backtracking and lying we’ve all become numb too… but he represented a change those voters wanted.
Aren’t all politicians liars? Wasn’t it during WWI that officially Germany told its people they never lost a battle — when your people don’t trust you you are going to lose “big league.”
Maybe the more disturbing thing should be to consider all the eligible voters who didn’t vote, didn’t participate… are they waiting for armed revolution? do they know none of this shit is going to change even if they do participate? are they so principled that they couldn’t “hold their nose” and vote for the lesser of two evils?
Whatever. Things aren’t going well in the U.S.; I really don’t know how anyone could be hopeful about the US Const and the Union lasting.
There is ZERO chance of Democrats making meaningful changes anytime soon, and there’s one huge reason for that: the ongoing cultish devotion to Barack Obama. Far too many Democrats venerate Obama’s presidency to the point that they are unwilling to entertain any but mild critiques of it. If you dare to impugn Obama’s policies and governing style in any fundamental way — or, God forbid, cast doubt on Obama’s sincerity and Basic Goodness — you are frozen out of Democratic discussion circles.
When the starting point of every discussion is that Barack Obama is the Greatest Bestest Most Wonderfulest President we’ve ever had or ever will have, any discussion of reform is neutered right from the start.
I… what? I’ve seen a huge number of Liberals criticize Obama for not being progressive enough, for being weak on domestic issues and strong on uncontrolled surveillance and military operations resulting in civilian death.
If Liberal’s rally behind him, it’s because Conservatives seem to want to blame him for literally everything, to the point where “Thanks Obama!” has become a sarcastic meme.
Obama is a worthless, preening cur whose only purpose is to let liberals enjoy their neurotic West Wing fantasies while reactionaries loot the government. Under this moronic loser, the Democratic Party has been reduced to its lowest state in 4 generations.
At least when McGovern and Carter went down in flames, they didn’t take down the whole party with them.
Ouija, that is a totally insane conclusion. Obama was a disgusting sellout and did the opposite policy wise of all his sweet talk. He was a massive bullshitter simply ramming corporate Americas agenda down our throats. Can u imagine an Obama who actually had the balls of Trump to execute his campaign rhetoric? Obama was a corporate tool while Trump like it or not is a true idealogue.
Exactly. Obama was a scam of highest proportions and I am not sure who I despise more him or the so called “liberals” to venerate him. They all are scam in my eyes to be honest.
Obama was an ideal Democrat.
Until people realize that hopey, changy, Obama fucked over the Americans that put him in office with countless broken promises and more military action, nothing will change. I’m afraid the ‘system’ is so broken no one individual in office can fit it. To save this country will require a thorough house cleaning top to bottom of corporate, military, interests which won’t happen in my life time anyway.
i agree. the DNC and American Liberalism more generally are far too much aligned, far too happy with each other and their place in the world, for any meaningful reevaluation to take place.
Let’s imagine an alternative planet. Call it H’trae. (get it? Earth backwards.)
On H’trae, they have found that the best “leaders” are those who can wrestle pigs in the mud most effectively.
Instead of debating issues, they debate mud fighting techniques and the anatomy of pigs. Sure, H’trae doesn’t function well because what sense does it make to award the highest offices to muddy pig fighters?
Yet we (Americans) have an exactly parallel system in which the winners are decided by who has the most money to spend. (With some exceptions.)
The rules are exactly the same for Republicans as for Democrats … except when Republicans cheat, say, by rigging the Supreme Court.
The rules are also exactly the same … except when outright lies, laughable incompetence, audacious unverifiable claims, media manipulation, secret negotiations with foreign powers and shameless ideologues win by calling their opponents corrupt and ineffective.
Instead of mud-wrestling pigs, on planet Earth, in America, money — usually corporate or foreign money — generally determines the outcome of American elections. Thus pointing out that Democrats scramble for money just like Republicans is either mindless flatulence or a calculated aspersion. It certainly doesn’t rise to the level of political analysis.
So let me offer an alternative explanation for the single most important dynamic of American politics.
Bullying
Americans love them thar bullies. Bullies on the right, bullies in the middle, and bullies on the left. Bullies win. Losers lose.
In googling, I found this article from 2005 in the Irish Times. See if it doesn’t sound more astute than blaming the losers for losing.
WORKPLACE HEALTH: a tyrant’s henchmen invariably know what’s expected of them and faithfully deliver. Fear is employed to discourage any resistance, writes Dr Mark Harrold.
It should be recognised that senior management is not the only level at which the rancid breed of bullies exists.
Workplace bullies can also establish themselves well down the ranks and make life hell for those senior to them.
The ultimate objective is, of course, to make their way through the ranks and wield that much sought-after power. And they will do anything in order to achieve that objective.
Once established in a position of power, the first step of the psychopathic bully is to promote a number of weak individuals beyond their level of competence to work immediately under them. It is often these people who perpetrate the bullying on behalf of the “leader”.
They may be incapable of knowing any better or may do what is required to protect their own position.
Having insulated themselves with these incompetents, the bully goes to work on ensuring that their authority is never threatened by talented, hardworking and capable individuals. It is at this point that the various tactics are most evident.
Welcome to Trumpworld.
Until Americans get over their fascination with bullies, Republicans will continue to dominate. Unlike Democrats who sputter and equivocate, Republicans know themselves. That’s why now, almost a year later, Republicans pretend that Merrick Garland never existed, that the president should never be challenged nor,(lawd’s sakes, obstructed, that Russia is America’s new bestie, that torture works and that Israel is completely justified in oppressing and killing Palestinians.
.
A bully steals your lunchbox. You say, “give it back!” The bully says, “I don’t have your lunchbox.” You say, “I see it there in your right hand.”
(Bully transfers your lunchbox to his left hand.) “Look. There’s nothing in my right hand.”
“You moved it to your left hand. Now it’s in your left hand.”
A group of chums with the bully giggle. The bully grins.
“The baby is imagining things. Poor baby. Let’s see what I have in MY lunchbox.”
The problem with America isn’t political.
The problem with America is sociological.
As long as Americans admire bullies, America will be run by bullies.
As they will tell you while they eat your lunch, “get over it.”
FFS, is it too much to ask for a preview?
From “WORKPLACE HEALTH” to “… the various tactics are most evident.” should be blockquoted.
And the source cited:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/bullies-surround-themselves-with-network-of-lackeys-1.437312
:-)
Human nature is perverse – we are our own worst enemy and for some strange reason we feel the need to keep reproving this over and over again in the selection (or imposition) of our leadership!
In other words, you don’t get it. “Pramatism”. “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”.
Even though nominating Sanders vice HRC would have been pragmatic, you had the perfect candidate in Hillary. You had the perfect opponent in Donald Trump. You had the CIA on your side, and a Democratic appointee in the FBI.
So…you didn’t even follow your own ideas. But…keep blaming everyone else.
I get “pragmatism.”
Which is why I supported Sanders in the primary and Clinton in the general.
The people who don’t get “pragmatic” are the people who voted Trump.
“The truly bad is the enemy of everyone … except the very few who profit from it.”
You should get a dictionary before parroting pointless platitudes.
Let’s imagine an alternative planet.
I can see the appeal in wanting to imagine that we have something other than we do, but that won’t solve the problems we face.
The rules are exactly the same for Republicans as for Democrats … except when Republicans cheat, say, by rigging the Supreme Court.
Yes, that is awful, and they may not have had that opportunity had the democrats not cheated by rigging the primary. No guarantees that Sanders would have won, but we now know what the alternative got us. Rigging has begat rigging.
Thus pointing out that Democrats scramble for money just like Republicans is either mindless flatulence or a calculated aspersion.
You are ignoring the fact that Sanders, in spite of DNC rigging, had an incredibly successful campaign funded almost in entirety by an alternative source, the people, as opposed to Wall St et al. Would it be good to see money stop influencing politics? Sure. But while we’re imagining alternative realities on H’trae, maybe we could acknowledge that there are also proven alternatives to that method. And acknowledge that there is a reason the DNC is sweating bullets trying to get Sanders’ list.
As for the bullying issue, well, one would be considered more honest if one admitted that there was a significant amount of bullying going on against Sanders and his supporters. In fact, it hasn’t stopped. And if we’re going to get rid of bullies, then we might do well to clean our own closet first.
Somethingsomething about “casting stones”….etc, etc
p.s. Agree with you entirely and enthusiastically about a preview function. It’s the only hope I have for obviating the curse of my fyslexic dingers. :-s
p.p.s. I didn’t vote for Trump, so please, don’t go there. It was possible, indeed probable after the primary, that a decent amount of people would not, could not, vote for either major candidate. The dems have been counting on failed “pragmatism” for far too long.
Thank you and Amen! How Milton could write as he did with a straight face is hard to fathom.
The Hillarycrats never let up, and still have not, on smearing, maligning and generally telling the Bernie cohort to go fuck ourselves. We’re sexist, racist children who want boyfriends and/or hate wimmin etc. (They actually worked to get Bernie people fired from their jobs for this or that supposed infraction online.)
Milton is sadly reflective of the blindness Glenn described (again) above.
Yet here I am.
If you want uniformity of thought and ideas, go join the fucking Stalinists on Breitbart because — clearly from this comment and others — you have no solutions except to chant “crooked Hillary” crooked Democrats, it’s all rigged so … let’s shoot each other.
Who do you want to eliminate from the Party Mona? The Clintons? Okay. Brazille and Perez? Okay. Joe Manchin? Okay.
Here’s the problem.
You can’t live in a system run by money and expect to win without finding sugar-pockets. You can’t.
You can’t wrestle pigs in the mud and stay clean. You can’t.
You can’t fight thugs with pretty words and noble sentiments. You can’t.
You can’t build a movement by exclusion. You can’t.
You can’t expect your noble sentiments to convince anyone else their noble sentiments aren’t as noble as your own. You just can’t do it.
Not you shouldn’t, you can’t.
You cannot defeat Trump by criticizing Clinton and the Democrats. That should have been obvious prior to the election. It was obvious to Sanders who said,
Deride this as pragmatism or whatever you want. The world isn’t going change for you Tinkerbell, no matter how much malicious hate dust you sprinkle with your sour self-righteousness.
Well, if all one can envision is what one convinces oneself they can’t do, then one shouldn’t be surprised when they never succeed.
Put another way, you will score none of the goals you are too timid, hopeful or unimaginative to take shots at.
The culture of the past 5000 years has encouraged bully alpha-male behavior. Fear is an excellent motivator when you want to enslave people. It takes bravey to stand up to bullies, but now after 5000 years of experimentation and work the bullies have a pretty good system of slavery and fear. And those bullies have bred and their offspring continue singing the song of their parents and acting out the story they want told. I bet it could be argued with epigenetic evidence that there are humans who are essentially “born slaves and born bullies” and it would take dramatic events to change that behavior. It can change, but change is often painful and chaotic. Nobody really wants to deal with pain and chaos, so they are resigned to slavery and distractions to help them cope with it.
Now the bullies have a massive arsenal of thermonuclear weapons. If the slaves rise up now there will be global destruction because the bullies never wanted to share the playground in the first place. The bullies decided a long time ago this world belongs to them and them alone. It’s too late now. Our culture will destroy itself. Perhaps from the ashes pockets of humanity will survive, but as a species our dominance on this planet is coming to an end.
I wish I could disagree.
I think you’re correct.
When Tillerson calls climate change an engineering problem, I think this is what he means. Not correction but disposal.
Score:
Earth: 6 (I include GOE.)
Dominant species: 0
Perfect summary of Democrats refusing to leave the Titanic. But why would anyone expect corrupt politicians to voluntarily vacate power? That is the height of ignorance. The obvious solution for them is to simply bambozzle the public more effectively next time around. After all that is exactly what Trump did. The American political system simply elects the more convincing corporate sponsored crook. Given the system of campaign financing and corporate media control just how stupid is it to expect anything else?
Bravo! Glenn! You have the hammer and you drove the nail precisely where it belongs.
Um, because I’m sure the Democratic Party wanted Glenn Greenwald writing their autopsy.
They’ll never take this type look in the mirror without facing their war-party corruption first.
Damn, Glenn, thank you!
The Justice Democrats are making an attempt to remove wall street/big business aligned Senators and Representatives while taking seats from the Republicans at all levels of government.
It might be worth it for some to review their platform and take part if that is your kind of thing.
Take care,
justicedemocrats.com/platform
I’m a member and am spreading word about it!
Also, the JD is NOT against third parties. If a third party agrees with them on an issue/policy, awesome, they’ll work with them. It is about improving the system that matters most.
Great write up! Thank you!
“Quite the contrary: this all happened because the Democrats are perceived – with good reason – to be out-of-touch, artificial, talking-points-spouting automatons who serve Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and the agenda of endless war, led by millionaires and funded by oligarchs to do the least amount possible for ordinary, powerless citizens while still keeping their votes.”
WOW! Do the democrats in power and DNC understand this kind of TRUTH?? THEY will NEVER get it and SO….
https://newrepublic.com/article/140070/case-unity
#ThirdWayGoAway enough is enough!!! The American people can no longer survive without proper representation.
I think there’s a typo in the paragraph beginning with “Two Recent Incidents…”
In the last line it says “…boycotting Israeli as a way of…”
I assume it should say either “Israel” or “Israeli businesses,” not “Israeli.”
Good article!
Savage…
Small donors only.
You should check out Justice Democrats: http://www.justicedemocrats.com/platform
It’s a new movement to reform the DNC and a major focus is to end the corrupt donation policy within the DNC!
Psychopaths at the top, a mix of sociopaths and well masked psychopaths-in-training below them and you do not reach the well meaning, fair-minded, moral, socially-minded democrats until you get to the grass roots at the very bottom (where they are useful idiots).
The organization is corrupt – is the idea that change is possible really more than a “useful idea” that the psychopaths-in-training want you to believe in?
House-of-Cards………………………..the DNC (and the entire democratic system for that matter) has collected only those that are prepared to do whatever it takes to win it all without any moral conscience.
Absolute POWER is the only thing that matters!
Humans – the evolutionary “experiment” or the “experimenter”?
Another big question is, are people going to continue applying yesterday’s solutions to today’s problems?
Knowledge is great and all, but it doesn’t necessarily change behavior. Insight can bring that around but that comes with reflection.
A smoker knows smoking is bad for them, but they rationalize it with “Yeah but everybody dies, so what?” The smoker keeps up the habit with the knowledge it will kill them. Then they get a bad cough and start feeling bad, so they go to the doctor. The doctor scans them and says there’s a lump, probably cancer. That knowledge may or may not change that smoker’s behavior. Some smokers have a moment of insight and drop the habit, others accept their fate. I am curious to see what kind of future people want for themselves.
Great article.
There’s no doubt that the real reason Trump won is that the DNC and the Clintons and Obama and the corporate media all backed Wall Street’s candidate, Hillary Clinton, over the populist Democratic candidate, Bernie Sanders, who’d have beaten Trump by ten points.
It’s worth reviewing the details of how the DNC intervened on behalf of Hillary Clinton, which can be seen if you compare the 2016 primary to the 2008 primary. It seems to come down to four main factors:
1) The DNC sponsored 26 primary debates in 2008, but only 9 in 2016. The reason was that Sanders was growing more popular as his message resonated with the public after each debate – so the DNC shut down the debates. The solution is clearly to set a fixed number of debates before the primary season begins.
2) Superdelegates had pre-selected for Clinton in 2016. In contrast, superdelegates were roughly evenly split between Obama (180) and Clinton (220) in Feb 2008 ; in Feb 2016 something the superdelegates pre-select Clinton (451) over Sanders (19). This reflects the fact that superdelegates are directly tied to the oligarchic supporters of the corporate Democratic wing (notice that Warren Buffett, as a leading example, gave equally to the Clinton and Obama campaigns in 2008, but only to Clinton in 2016, as Bernie Sanders was relying only on small donors). The clear solution is to eliminate the superdelegate’s role in the primary entirely.
3) The extensive collaboration between the DNC and the Clinton campaign to undermine Sanders, including an effort to label Sanders a “Jewish atheist” to cost him votes in Southern states, was mirrored in a similar corporate media campaign to promote Clinton over Sanders. The close collusion between corporate media and the DNC is seen in the case of Donna Brazile. The solution is to ban DNC members from holding media positions of any kind.
4) Independent voters were prevented from registering Democratic months in advance of the election in many states to prevent them from voting for Sanders. Indepedendent voters are becoming the largest voting block in the United States, and allowing them to have a say in primaries can only help win general elections. At the very least, DNC should encourage states to change their rules on late or even same-day registration to vote in primaries.
To sum that up: set a fixed number of debates before the primary, eliminate the superdelegate system, cut off corporate media control (notice that Trump did this and it helped him greatly?), and allow independents to vote in Democratic primaries.
Corporate Democrats who owe their success to oligarch financing would be sure to oppose all these reforms, as it limits their control of the party – but it’s the only way Democrats will start winning elections again. But this is indicative of what the corporate Democrats are all about – they’d rather be leaders of the minority party, with no power over government decisions but lots of personal perks and kickbacks, than be replaced by Democrats who could win elections.
The DNC set up, and amended over the decades, the superdelegate system precisely to limit the influence of primary voters on the nomination. The DNC leadership will never eliminate it — you are interested in a fair election and they are not. Not at all.
High-ranking DNC (and GOP, of course) members are professional fundraisers and propagandists. Your proposal would hamper those efforts, and they would never even consider such a policy. Never.
And, the few debates that they did allow were scheduled such that, relatively speaking, very few people watched them. Another form of election rigging.
There are several significant aspects of this article which are
problematic and are actually exactly what keeps the democrats
from changing.
Several times it is implied that the democrat party corruption
(which is somewhat glossed over in this article)
can be fixed and the party can be possibly redeemed.
If that same argument was made about the republicans –
who share the same agenda and mindset as the democrats –
one might think that Glenn Greenwald had lost his mind.
This implication is one of the main reasons the democrats will
not change. It is a delusion and it is their favorite bait for suckers.
Another delusion implied here is that Keith Ellison is someone
beyond the typical democrat trickster. It ignores his fake
progressive-ness wherein he has actually helped the corruption
and supported the warmongering corporatists who are
actually the core of the democrat version of the republican party.
Biden, Kerry, and Hillary Clinton were key players in the worst
aspects of G.W. Bush’s administration and that is exactly why they
were given such prominence in the lousy Obama corruption.
Ellison has REPEATEDLY proudly aligned himself with these
deviants who are basically Cheney in drag.
This global warmongering and domestic privatization of
everything
is and has been central to the lying republicans who call
themselves democrats. The perception that the republicans
and democrats oppose each other is clearly bogus when it comes
to supporting the global corrupt juggernaut of
privatizing corporate domination of everything.
There is NO GOOD REASON to “fix” the democrat arm of corruption.
That notion is exactly the way to keep the corruption growing.
The only chance for ordinary people to stop this madness is to tell
both the democrats and republicans to go to Hell, but apparently
that Hell is what people are willing to accept as their future.
Sure, you can say I am delusional because I think corrupt
fakers are beyond “fixing” and I do not trust the judgement of
the vast majority of the “exceptional” people in the faking U$A.
No, I did not remotely imply this. What needs to be fixed is the nature of the opposition. Whether that means reforming/taking-over the Democratic Party or using some other vehicle is not something I opined on here. I simply argued that it’s not enough to focus on Trump: with the Dem Party so sickly and as the primary means for opposition, the other side of the equation also has to be addressed.
Also, nobody could rationally claim that I “glossed over” the corruption of the Democratic Party since it’s essentially the primary point pervading everything I wrote.
Yes, it shows a real lack of cognitive dissonance to say, “Trump is a clown with a toupee who acts like a 6-year-old, and we lost to him, but that’s because EVERYBODY’S RACIST OR RUSSIAN OR BOTH! Nothing to do with us!”
It’s the same with the “Russian hacking” stuff. “Yes, we lied and cheated in all sorts of ways, put it in writing, and failed to take even minimal steps to secure it, but the real problem here is the RUSSIANS!”
Read your first sentence in this article. I did not say that you
were distinctly calling out to save the party, but you DID
imply just that in this article.
You did gloss over the corruption when you did not highlight
the enormous damage the democrats have done globally with
their support for the enormously expensive –
both in wasted lives and in economic possibilities –
warmongering and other corporately profitable economic
scheming (NAFTA, CAFTA, TPP,….).
What you have done here is like describing an iceberg by
what is obvious and implying that a closer look would be warranted
(my apologies to icebergs).
Without a call for repudiation of both corporate arms of the
faking U$A, you are not on solid ground in this article.
I wish you well and I appreciate the majority of your efforts
as being positive contributions, but this article is falling
short.
No reasonable person could read either the above piece standing alone, or taken together with Greenwald’s entire output, and believe that. It’s literally preposterous.
I specifically referred to this article and my critique is
based upon my assertion that the implication of a
possible “fixing” of the democrat arm of private corporate
global domination is largely based upon not seeing the
extent of that party’s corruption. The insidiousness must
be highlighted much more clearly than is done in this
article. Nowhere did I say that Glenn Greenwald is not
usually exemplar in his delineations of hypocrisy and corruption.
It is simply that here he is not being thoroughly clear in this
article and that is troubling to me because it gives the appearance
(to me, if not anyone else) that he is holding back in an
untypical manner.
I do not know what is going on in his life, but I want him to
be more in touch with his “muchness.”
Again, call me delusional if you want. It is not something which
many “liberal democrats” (another delusion) haven’t done
numerous times in the past decade of delusions.
@ Glenn
Speaking of “rituals” for telling the truth, this one is probably going to earn you a week’s worth of “Eeek Glenn Greenwald is personally responsible for electing Donald Trump for criticizing Dems” from Campos and Lemieux and their commenting crowd. And all for stating what is quite simply true and plainly obvious to anybody who isn’t a corporatist centrist Clinton supporter and/or believer in the self-defeating concept that “centrism” is the best the Democratic party should ever hope for in our lifetimes.
There are viable electoral strategies for taking over the Democratic party, but they involve targeting with primary challenges the visible symbols of “centrism” and top ranking members of the party until they get the message that they fall in line, consistently, with the progressive agenda and learn to fight for it without equivocation or funding from Wall Street-big corporate interests, or those individual Senators and Representatives can watch their access to the levers of power disappear into the hands of an actual progressive or a Republican.
And it has to all revolve around “economic justice” for everyone. And of course that doesn’t mean abandoning the issues that are important to minority groups within the Democratic party coalition. They are mutually self-reinforcing if done right.
And it makes no difference to me if you call it purge of the Democratic party, or cleaning house, or sending a message, or as I like to call it demanding something better from our so-called representatives. But it is going to have to be done with millions of small dollar donations, and what’s left of the union organizational infrastructure that is left in this nation, which isn’t much and going to continue to shrink rapidly if it doesn’t learn to fight for its own survival again at the grass roots instead of reflexively voting for centrists who have done exactly fuck all for union organizing efforts for the last 50 years. Nothing. And that’s why the Democratic party is almost a corpse.
I’m not denying that the GOP can and will do a tremendous amount of harm in the next 4, 8, 12, 16 years, but if you aren’t willing to play the long game for political power and the future of our country then the Democratic party as it is currently constructed will continue to get its ass handed to it by the party that is–the GOP. It will go the way of the dodo. Or they can see it as an opportunity for reinvention. Hell they have the greatest opportunity in decades to fundamentally contrast themselves with the incompetent revanchist loonies the GOP has become just by tying every Republican in this nation to Trump.
I know demographics isn’t necessarily destiny, but there is a huge cohort coming into American political life and it is important that if they are going to be loyal progressives for the remainder of their lives and actually have a chance to change this country back for the better, they have to take control a party that actually believes in something, speaks to its values clearly and plainly, fights for policy goals consistent with its rhetoric every single day without equivocation or quarter against the revanchists in this country, and doesn’t hypocritically sell out its base by trying to be the party of Wall Street and the working man at the same time–which simply isn’t possible.
You don’t advance the agenda of the working class by kissing the ass of Blackrock, Wal Mart or Haim Saban or Goldman Sachs. Never going to happen.
Thanks for saying what needs to be said Glenn.
I’m afraid your common sense shall fall once again on deaf ears, Mr. Greenwald. The Democrats would rather lose in perpetuity than allow what remains of its left wing to take over the party, and they would rather nobody be allowed to vote than let people cast ballots for leftist candidates, as evidenced by their adoption of Rove’s vote-suppression tactics during the primaries. It really is time for We the People to Dump the Democrats and build up a viable third party. The Greens may be fatally compromised by petty infighting and personality conflicts, but there is the Progressive Party in states like Vermont, Oregon, and Washington, that could be expanded into every state of the Union and built into a force that can win elections and be accountable to the People. But this is really the only way we’re ever going to successfully challenge the Republicans and get the shamelessly right-wing Democrats to shape up. Anything less is to surrender to the status quo and discourage others from making meaningful challenges, because it cannot be done within the narrow confines of the present political party system.
Third parties are highly unlikely in the modern world, corporate media has too much influence and would block their rise. Yes, there are two examples in American history of third parties having significant power. The first was the rise of the Republican Party, largely in opposition to slavery, in the 1850s. They did succeed in rising to power, but this also involved a civil war over slavery. The other example is the People’s Party:
That’s about it. Third parties have more power in parliamentary systems, so you see them having influence in European democracies, etc., but not in the United States – and this is enforced by the consolidated corporate media. It’d be easier to break up the corporate media into hundreds of independent outlets by applying anti-trust law than it would be to create a viable third party. And no politician ever talks about anti-trust for corporate media outlets – and certainly no corporate media outlet would discuss it.
There’s another factor that neither leading party wants to discuss – i.e the failures of American foreign policy, the bloated military industrial budget, the fact that the U.S. today operates much like the old Soviet Union did in terms of internal corruption and external aggression, and that a fundamental reorganization on the scale of the USSR collapse is inevitable. This will give rise to a multipolar world and end the era of “American exceptionalism”. Neither party is really capable of confronting this issue; the only ones who seem to recognize it are outsiders like Rand Paul (R) and Tulsi Gabbard (D).
If you look at the effects strong third parties have had on elections and party ideological makeup, the 1912 and 1992 examples are key to understanding how it isn’t entirely necessary to win an election, just get enough of the vote to influence the policies of one or both major parties. The Democrats would not have supported the New Deal programs Roosevelt and his allies put forth if there wasn’t the presence of strong competing organizations applying pressure. Clinton would not have been emboldened to pass as many corporatist bills as he could get away with if Perot hadn’t gotten almost 19% of the vote on a platform that demanded government be run like a business. So in those instances it wasn’t really necessary for third parties to win so much as influence the policies of the parties that came out on top.
As much fun as it is to revel in Democratic Party failure, as an active GOP member since 2008 I can assure you that our current dominance does not reflect any advantage in competence, strategy, organization, integrity, or a commitment to truth or the values we publicly espouse. Here is what happened: Both parties had insurgent candidates, and both parties tried to suppress them. We failed at that, while the Democrats were successful. That all resulted in our complete electoral dominance, and no one was more surprised by that than us.
Democrats are not in as much trouble (as a party) as they currently seem. Their competition is equally blind and corrupt and perhaps less competent at cheating — they’ll be fine. (Not that that means anything good for anyone but them.) Furthermore, for all we know the midterms will occur in the midst of an executive order, I dunno, banning SNL. At Trump’s pace, he will leave us with a whole lot of ‘splaining to do.
But the question remains: where will the dems get funding if their rich patrons abandon ship? The rethugs are flush to the gills and fund their own propaganda media machines to control their pseudo base. The system is so wholly captured by money it’s difficult to see any way of reforming it from within. The majority of so-called liberals are strictly focused on social issues. They don’t understand or – more likely – refuse to make the connection between social justice and economic justice. Their commitment to changing the current economic system, which works so well for many of them, is a whole ‘nuther thing.
But I was told that Bernie Sanders did really, really well considering he DIDN’T have mega sponsors funding him? Doesn’t this hint that there ARE certain
North Americans who aren’t captured by money?
All intelligent progressives wanting real change in the Democratic Party have to agree with Greenwald’s assessment; it is flatly beyond dispute. However, as frustrating as the current DNC race is – with it’s disgracefully cosmetic, inane, and insufficient approach to real change – I’m not sure national progress can happen until new leaders step into the political breach. And we haven’t found them yet.
Keith Ellison and Elizabeth Warren, both viable and charismatic voices of the left, both seem too eager for glowing spotlight, but weak on expressing their vision in a way that can connect with a national electorate. This is not to denegrate their passion or integrity – it simply means they cannot command a national spotlight or win a national election. Donald Trump won the presidency by training his sights on a horizon that spoke to a national future.
For far too long , the Left in America has been a tool of the corporate and academic classes. This was well documented in Chris Hedges’ book ‘The Death of the Liberal Class':
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8607391-the-death-of-the-liberal-class
Working and middle class Amercians have long tired of hearing well-heeled bureacrats, academics, and rabble rousers express the need for ‘diversity’, ‘equality’, and ‘economic mobility’. I put these in quotations because that’s how they are spoken (and thought of) by the Establishment Left – as talking points, cudgels, points of political leverage – and nothing more.
Until the Democratic Party takes that long hard look in the mirror, and finds it’s Inner Trump, then very little will be achieved, on the local, state, or national levels.
Do you think Ellison or Warren could project a vision which would command a national spotlight but be realistic enough for liberals/democrats to believe? I feel like many could see through Trump’s BS (but not enough to be defeated by a weak Democratic campaign).
I couldn’t agree more with your last line.
Thanks Yazar – I don’t believe Ellison or Warren can synthesize those divergences. Both seem very eager to consolidate the progressive base, and even more eager to appear in the national media (lol) – however that ambition alone does not make a national leader.
The Left needs someone who can express a powerful, progressive vision that incorporates white middle-class mobility INTO the picture of leftist priorities (diveristy, equal rights, etc). It will take a special leader who can reach for that Holy Grail.
The search continues…
I like Gabby Gifford.
Oops, brain fart! I meant Tulsi Gabbard.
All very true and, as always, well stated by Glenn. But try talking about this with Ds whose minds are still blown about the election and watch their shock turn into outrage that anyone would dare challenge their poll-tested fictions, courtesy the DNC who actively shames those who see through and speak out against it. No wonder the labor secretary ran away from your reporter and cowardly walked back his honest remarks. He’d have been tossed out of the DNC mean-clique if he hadn’t.
We’ve long had two major parties who are the sum total of marketing schemes and selfish motives. One has been acting out in the open for decades, the other pretending it’s not doing the same. It’s good that the D’s hypocrisy is being exposed, and we’ll see if that exposure can withstand the forces of the DNC. Might we be headed to a mid-term election where more people understand how these two sham parties have robbed us all blind?
Nice one!
PS: *acclamation :)
That Hillary Clinton won the meaningless popular vote…
I’ll suggest a hyperlink for those who might take exception to meaningless.
https://medium.com/@MattBruenig/the-popular-vote-arguments-are-meaningless-57e6db813adf#.qu3c15lte
… and the Republicans do not dominate virtually all levels of government because …
Recommended hyperlink for anyone who might take exception to Republican Domination.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/16/the-republican-domination-of-state-legislatures-in-2-maps/
And, for those who would argue What about…. Ellison supporters do have concerns regarding some of his more worrisome positions.
https://34justice.com/2017/02/08/ellison-for-dnc-chair-it-matters/
Ellison is good in some respects, and poor in others. He’d be better than some of the alternatives, but he is still far from the ideal person to lead the DNC.
#Tulsi2020
As a Bernie supporter, I could not agree with you more! I am 63, so I have been through quite a few election cycles. When the DNC could do no better than “serve Clinton up” as the candidate of choice, I thought, “you guys are really on a suicide mission”! And, it became very clear to me that they had abandoned their constituents. Seriously, we didn’t want her in 2008 and why anyone thought regurgitating her was a good idea??? She was and is seriously flawed.
The betrayal was astounding and profound! Having 2 nieces that voted for the first time, Bernie supporters, I can say the DNC managed quite successfully, to kick the youth vote squarely in the teeth! They won’t be forgetting that.
Surviving the next 4 years will seem like a life time. The Democratic leadership is in dire need of an “intervention”!
while i agree with this statement vis-a-vis Trump, i really don’t see how the Democrat Party is redeemable in any pragmatic or realistic sense. it isn’t a democratic institution, and it isn’t about to just decide that it should be. its owners paid a lot of money to acquire it, they aren’t about to just hand over the keys.
oh dear, another html fail.
the block quote above was supposed to be from the last paragraph of the article;
Here is why I think this thinking is wrong. First, it is a Democratic organization–you need to show up to every local meeting of your Democratic Committee. In most places, they meet at least once a month, and barely anybody goes (well, that was true before the Trump administration.)
So, why is it necessary to work on the Democratic Party. Because the only thing that can counter Trump are real organizations, and the Democratic Party is the only organization that is large enough to put up a fight. Some countries have proportional representation, we do not. That means that third parties are destined to be failures under the current Constitution. It isn’t a failure of imagination that has kept powerful Third Parties from emerging in the US, it is the structural make-up of the government.
So, you can continue to bemoan the state of the Democratic Party (I certainly do) but in the end, you can go to a meeting, you can get elected to a position, or support people that you agree with.
Bernie Sanders almost defeated the entire Democratic establishment, with almost no involvement by citizens on the grassroots level of the party. Think about that for a second. Stop being so defeatist, and realize that Sanders was the first challenge to the mainstream party, and it almost worked. . . Did you think it would be easy?
i know, you can’t have the chicken without the egg.
lesser evilism is unavoidable in a 2-party system. you’re not going to change the Democrat Party because game theory and electioneering is more important for gaining office and maintaining power than legitimate government. as long as we have a 2-party, first-past-the-post election system, it simply isn’t necessary for government to listen to their constituents.
we literally do not matter.
Here is an article that clearly shows what some Democratic Congressional members think of Obama’s nuclear deal with Iran:
http://viableopposition.blogspot.ca/2017/02/asking-for-war-with-iran.html
There are obviously some very significant divisions within the losing party.
Has Ellison come out and endorsed BDS? Has he commented on the demolition of homes? Or are we supposed to infer that because he’s Muslim and left wing and disliked by Saban that he’s for sure going to shake up the pro-Israel status quo in the Democratic Party?
Maybe playing it close to his chest so they can’t use it against him? People like Saban aren’t against him because of his religious orientation per se. They fully vet their bought and paid for reps.
Institutions and systems are only as good or virtuous as the people who use them. Everything happening in our system is a summation of the people’s behavior in that system.
If you want the system to change, seek to change yourself.
i agree, but i would have put a slightly different emphasis on the point.
a system of democratic representation is only as good as its participants and if the representatives are not responsive to the electorate, no amount of voting will change that fact.
I’m arguing for a larger perspective than that. It’s the narrow view that keeps holding people back, in my opinion.
People are the only defining characteristic of government or really any ideology. People have been okay with greedy oligarchs leading while accepting the illusion of choice in the form of voting for politicians. You yourself are saying if more people paid attention and voted a democracy would work, but that’s exactly what happened. People voted, but other people whose vote matters more voted too. Democracy worked in the US exactly as it was designed to work.
Our system is a reflection of the people. The people are showing they are okay being slaves to the system as long as their illusions are maintained. There is no such thing as community among slaves. Only free thinking people can create communities. What we have now is a system of slavery which is what the US was built upon.
Unless people decide for themselves they no longer want to be slaves to the static ideas of certain people, then nothing will change. It’s time to evolve ideas or live out the consequences.
no, that is not what i said at all.
the question of whether the government as it exists is a result of a disengaged electorate or its cause is too much in the style of tail-chasing for me. suffice to say there are at least two moving parts that are essential to a properly representative democracy – an informed and engaged citizenry and representatives committed to serving their political will.
the failure of one of these is the breakdown of the entire apparatus. one aspect can’t make up for the failure of the other, they both have to work or neither does.
i think we’re both in agreement about this much. however, i believe 2016 has crystalized the impasse that the 2-party system’s corruption has created for us: no amount of reinvigorated engagement by a formerly alienated electorate (or portion thereof) can, in itself, overcome a decidedly anti-democratic and unresponsive political system. the system itself is not designed for the purpose of democratic representation. that isn’t its purpose.
now it may be that you’re suggesting that a fully engaged citizenry would take it upon themselves to completely dismantle the corrupted political system and rebuild it to properly reflect their will and interests. but short of that, i don’t find the truism about people getting the government they deserve to be of much value. it is obviously possible for a democratic process to be altogether corrupted and subverted from its purpose of real representation.
that isn’t very clear. i mean, the system as it has come to be, without regard to what may or may not have been its original intent.
Well after reading both of our previous comments, I think we can agree it’s a people issue. Politics, like all ideology, is a tool, so it depends on the people using it.
yes, i do agree. there is no fool-proof human system. makes you wonder about all the blood and tears shed over competing ideologies.
People get attached and addicted to their ideas and the validation they get for them.
That’s how I see things. A society of addicts arguing over who the dealers should be.
Again, I think you are far to narrow in what you think the party is going to respond to. If you get involved by voting in the primaries, you are already way too late. You need to push the party on the local level, or nothing will get done. A lot of progressive minded people are mobilizing now, they need to be flooding Democratic Committee meetings and moving the party away from the corporatist wing. It can happen, but people have to show up.
i disagree. see: Hillary Clinton
that’s what “systemic corruption” means. the Party is concerned with promoting itself, and that is something quite apart from proper representation. the patronage system isn’t an accident, it’s how the Party is constituted and controlled. you honestly think all that money is put up so you and i can tell them to eschew corporatism?
we’re talking about one of the biggest centers of power on the planet, and what does power pursue before everything and everyone? what can you possible tell them that would bring about a come-to-Jesus moment for people like that?
All of this resonates with me, but it is very difficult to get “proud” democrats to see that Clinton was a poor candidate and that is why she lost, to recognize that their senators, congressmen and other representatives in government are part of the problem. So often you’ll hear registered democrats make excuses for their candidates or elected officials – glossing over their trespasses. As long as voters fail to recognize that we need to demand more of our elected officials, we will continue to have a government that does not work for us. So, how do we break through to them? Is it even possible?
Perceived as or portrayed as?
(I’ll continue reading …)
Are…
I’m surprised the entirely chorus hasn’t appeared yet.
It’s still early I suppose.
If you can’t comprehend my distinction, then why do you come to a website for people of normal intelligence? I’m sure you would feel more comfortable at Breitbart.
Just click the link.
And Democratic partisans wonder why Right Wing Authoritarianism scores don’t differ that much between the parties. Maybe they should look in the mirror.
The one thing you can count on for bipartisan support is the smearing and denunciation of anyone who questions the oligarch’s rights to power.
For those who struggle, as I do, to understand how inequality persists so doggedly even in the face of overwhelming evidence of unfairness, below are a couple of good papers on the neuropsychological development and self-serving bias that is inherent to human psychology.
The developmental foundations of human fairness
Katherine McAuliffe – Department of Psychology, Boston College,
http://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-016-0042
Young Children Consider Merit when Sharing Resources with Others
Patricia Kanngiesser – School of Experimental Psychology, University of Bristol
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0043979
so good. Thank you.
Brilliant analysis Glenn. Well done. I am posting it as far and as wide as I can.
With only 78,000 votes making the difference, the election Trump won is 99.94% the same as an election Clinton could have won. Similarly, humans and chimpanzees share about 99% the same DNA.
Exactly. The current Democratic panic is akin to the Falcon’s coaching staff saying, “Well, we lost the Superbowl in overtime, SO NOW WE HAVE TO COMPLETELY START OVER AND REBUILD!”
What about the house, senate, most governor’s races and state legislatures? The Dems are a lot more like the Chicago Bears.
You’re right, my analogy was imperfect, but there’s no doubt there is some effect of the presidential election on congressional elections. If the party is running a criminal with no talent or good ideas, many voters, I suspect, will be less likely to vote for the D in their congressional races. Maybe a Bernie nomination would have reversed some of those elections.
Do you not understand what kind of position the Democrats are in? It goes way beyond Hillary Clinton losing to a gropey clown psychopath; she’s only the culmination of years of failure under that worthless cur Obama. We are one bungled election away from the GOP being able to rewrite the constitution at will — and given how clueless the Democrats are acting in defeat, I can guarantee you that having Mother at the helm in 2018 would’ve ended up with 2020’s Tom Cotton would be cramming a copy of the Constitution with the 13th and 14th Amendments crossed out up your noses.
Eh. You seem to think the GOP is monolithic, which it isn’t. Even an amendment to reverse Roe v. Wade wouldn’t get through, but I may be wrong about that. Regardless, I’m not saying the GOP is weak but rather that their current strength obscures their vulnerability.
The GOP is more tactically and ideologically regimented now than they were at any time in history, and that includes the Gingrich years. They’re oftentimes more cohesive than most sham parties in one-party states are. See: Trump’s confirmation votes.
“Regardless, I’m not saying the GOP is weak but rather that their current strength obscures their vulnerability.”
A vulnerability your foe can’t take advantage of isn’t a vulnerability at all. The GOP has massive fault lines, as we can see with Trump’s election, but an urbanite, pro-American interventionalist, technocratic, meritocratic, fake-multicultural, lightly-regulated capitalist party can’t take advantage of any of those.
The GOP’s disastrous wars? Dems can’t non-hypocritically take advantage of it.
The GOP’s centralized propaganda machine? Dems can’t even hypocritically take advantage of it.
The GOP’s love for austerity and household debt? Dems not only can’t take advantage of it but they oftentimes aid and abet!
The GOP’s war against unionism? Dems let this important leftist apparatus completely decay.
The GOP’s longstanding corruption and plutocratic gladhanding? Do you even need to ask?
The GOP’s desire to inflict a pre-Reconstruction police state on the populace? Not with a President who completely eclipsed past Presidencies in military hardware sales to the police.
The GOP’s WASP herrenvolk plans? Dems THOUGHT that they could take advantage of it, but given that Trump did better with minorities than Romney did, maybe they should’ve done a little digging into why Obama was crowned ‘deporter in chief’.
But, yeah, you STILL lost. It’s called a trend. What’s to rebuild? A brand now completely tainted with primary rigging, collussion, super delegates, and oh I don’t know–Clinton? Good luck with that–especially among younger voters. Sure Viagra voters will stick with the DNC–but the rest of us? We’re out.
Don’t let that denial get in the way of losing more governorship, statehouse, local races–and that, according to the Gallup Organization–the loss of an additional 5% of those registered as Dems–now down to 24% of the electorate. The party of minorities is now a minority party. Cool.
I’m not sure we understand each other — I’m not a Democrat, quite the contrary.
Are you going to answer the substance Truth be damned’s tearing down of your ‘the GOP is vulnerable, don’t get discouraged’ talking point or are you going to waste our time with ‘hey, I’m not a Democrat, I just have concerns’ deflections?
Frankly, I’m confused. You want me to contend that the DNC isn’t corrupt and out of touch? Why would I do that, and what does it have to do with my point? The GOP is corrupt and out of touch, too. Truth be damned’s points are somewhat misdirected at me, unless I fail to understand my own position. Hence my first reply to him/her that you find so contemptible for some reason.
I’m not telling Democrats not to get discouraged. I don’t care one bit if they are, and I hope they never win an election again. I just think they will (win in the future). Yes, they’re corrupt and incompetent, but so is their competition. So whatever s/he’s “tearing down,” it has nothing to do with me.
What? I don’t recall making a point about my “concerns.” Regardless, I simply have a different view that that expressed in the article — I don’t think the DNC is in much trouble. If it was, I still wouldn’t be concerned about it.
You accuse me of “wast[ing] our time with…deflections” while attacking a straw man. Presumably, you’re being ironic.
You’re right. I apologize for projecting a strawman onto you and my overly combative tone. I’ll be more respectful towards you.
Nonetheless:
“Regardless, I simply have a different view that that expressed in the article — I don’t think the DNC is in much trouble. If it was, I still wouldn’t be concerned about it.”
I think the DNC and more generally the Democrats are in trouble despite the many weaknesses of the GOP. A halfway-decent worker’s party could hand the GOP their dinner, but the Democrats are… not that. And Dems like Schumer and Pelosi and Perez show that they have no interest in moving in that direction.
What will happen if they continue on the course they’re on is that the Democrats mount an anemic counterattack in 2018 that briefly forestalls the threat of Constitutional rewriting and gets the House. If the financial bubble pops or they go ahead with the Ryan Budget 2.0, they might even win the Senate. Then they manage to lose it all again in 2020 after they nominate Cuban or Booker or Gillibrand or Hickenlooper or god forbid Cuomo or Clinton and rehash the 2016 campaign against Trump or Cotton or Pence. As 2020 is a census year and, unlike the Democrats, the GOP can objectively diagnose their weaknesses they’ll just tighten the gerrymander and voter suppression noose harder.
Thanks.
Yes, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if your predictions obtain. It all depends on what Trump actually does.
And Booker! What a joke he’s become! He’s in above his head — he can’t give speeches without broadcasting that he doesn’t believe what he’s saying. He is failing Politics 101.