The Trump administration has taken sweeping, drastic measures that it says are necessary to protect Americans from the threat of terrorism, including its executive order halting immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries. But the radical policies and beliefs of this administration could just as easily end up fueling the narratives of extremist groups fighting the United States. When Trump ran a campaign built on promises to destroy ISIS, how can one explain the fact that supporters of the group in Mosul were reportedly celebrating his Muslim ban?
The order was based on plainly dubious claims about national security, targeting for scrutiny some of the most heavily vetted visitors to the United States. But the tangible purpose it did serve, before being at least temporarily frozen by the courts, was to divide Americans from millions of people in the Muslim world by sending the latter a message of gratuitous insult and contempt — and emboldening the very extremist movements the order was ostensibly directed against.
That kind of polarization may be exactly what some members of the White House want. High-ranking members of the current administration — most notably its chief strategist, Steve Bannon — have publicly espoused apocalyptic theories of history that center on a forthcoming clash between Western countries and the Muslim world, a conflict that many of them seem to perceive as both inevitable and desirable.
There are striking parallels between Bannon’s worldview and the perspective of terrorist groups like the Islamic State, which see the world divided in similarly binary terms — hence their reported enthusiasm for the executive order that Bannon helped author.
A proponent of pseudoscientific theories of history like the “Fourth Turning,” Bannon has predicted the coming of another major U.S. war in the Middle East and a military conflict with what he calls an “expansionist China.” In interviews during the election campaign, Bannon openly described Trump as a “blunt instrument” for his ideological goals.
A 2014 speech that Bannon delivered to an audience at the Vatican provides a hint of what kind of program he might want to use Trump to achieve. In that address, delivered via teleconference, Bannon called for a revival of the tradition of the “church militant,” describing a vague yet apocalyptic threat he claims that Western countries face from both “Islamic jihadist fascism” and their own loss of religious faith.
We’re at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict … to fight for our beliefs against this new barbarity that’s starting, that will completely eradicate everything that we’ve been bequeathed over the last 2,000, 2,500 years.
Now consider how Bannon’s hysterical view of history was echoed that same year in a speech by Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who issued a similarly vague, yet no less frenzied call to arms:
So let the world know that we are living today in a new era. Whoever was heedless must now be alert. Whoever was sleeping must now awaken. … You will face tribulation and fierce battle. … So prepare your arms, and supply yourselves with piety.
Nowhere are these types of ideas particularly popular. While the Islamic State is held up by anti-Muslim activists in the United States as the quintessential expression of Muslim beliefs, in reality the group is deeply loathed in Muslim-majority countries. In the United States, though Trump won the election, his voter base comprised a distinct minority of the electorate. Even among those who did vote for him, few appear to have done so in enthusiasm for the apocalyptic theories of history held by advisers like Bannon. Huge numbers of people have also taken to the streets in opposition to Trump’s executive orders, which has helped to counteract the administration’s anti-Muslim message to the world, showing that it does not represent the views of all Americans.
But it doesn’t take much for a highly motivated minority to spark a broader conflict.
ISIS attacks have been deliberately calibrated to shock and offend the sensibilities of Western publics, a strategy that the group openly refers to as “eliminating the grayzone” of coexistence between societies. Many 19th- and 20th-century revolutionary movements were also led by small, militant vanguards that used violence and provocation to help advance their political programs. In their time, these movements achieved real tactical successes. And even today, despite widespread public war-weariness in the United States, ISIS has accomplished its goal of dragging American troops back into armed conflicts in Iraq and Syria that show little sign of abating.
After a series of improbable successes, the radical right-wing vanguard of U.S. politics has now taken control of the government, along with the most powerful military on the planet. In its enthusiasm for civilizational war, it is just the enemy that a group like the Islamic State needs to help validate its desperate and fanatical narrative.
An early example of the kind of harm that the Trump administration can do came in the form of the first special operations forces raid authorized by Trump after his inauguration. In that operation — reportedly promoted to him over dinner with his advisers — a total of 25 civilians were reportedly killed, including nine children under the age of 13. Among those killed was an 8-year-old U.S. citizen, Nawar al-Awlaki, the daughter of deceased al Qaeda proselytizer Anwar al-Awlaki. Images of Awlaki’s daughter and other victims of the raid were broadcast around the world, fueling widespread outrage.
Days later, the Yemeni branch of al Qaeda publicly denounced Trump for carrying out a “massacre” of civilians. The group promised vengeance, saying that global outrage over the deaths meant that “the flame of jihad has ignited and reached all over the world.”
While that may be an overstatement, it is not hard to see how a cycle of tit-for-tat violence, already tacitly established since the start of the war on terror, could accelerate dramatically under an administration that actively seeks to escalate conflict. Where President Obama sought to calm public fears in the aftermath of ISIS attacks, Trump and his administration will undoubtedly seek to inflame them for political gain. It’s only a matter of time before such an attack occurs, and Trump’s reaction could have consequences that quickly spiral out of control.
In his memoirs, published after his suicide in 1942, the exiled Austrian Jewish writer Stefan Zweig described his feelings of despair upon realizing that a “tiny but loud-mouthed party of German Nationalists” had succeeded in seizing power and dragging humanity into a global conflict it had neither wanted or expected. “The personal cause to which I had lent the force of my convictions, the peaceful union of Europe, had been wrecked,” Zweig lamented. “What I feared more than my own death, war waged by everyone against everyone else, had been unleashed for the second time.”
Seven decades after Zweig penned these words, small, well-organized groups of right-wing radicals are once again ascendant across the world. The best hope to stop them may be the popular opposition movements that have begun to stir in the United States. But most importantly, it will take a rejection of the logic of revenge and collective blame on both sides to prevent the apocalyptic visions of extremists from becoming reality.
Top photo: Senior counselor to the president, Steve Bannon, arrives at the presidential inauguration at the U.S. Capitol in Washington on Jan. 20, 2017.
Sometimes the use of an otherwise offensive word, Nazi, is right.
Nationalistic racist behavior that promotes the division of humans by race, religion and ethnicity can be called, and should be called, Nazi.
Some of the folks that write here promote similar nationalistic-racist ideas, and I understand that they will be upset for being called Nazis. After all, they may not be knowing collaborators of the group of racists that occupy our White House. Some Jews may find this inappropriate because it may seem as though it trivializes the horrific crimes of Nazis.
To this second group I would say, it is necessary to draw this parallel as strongly as one can in the hopes of thwarting a second racist cleansing by the White House occupiers. The use of this word in this context honors memory of Jews.
To the first group I would say, knowingly or not, you are complicit in the future crimes of the racists occupiers of the White House if you do not stand up now.
“The time to guard against corruption and tyranny is before they shall have gotten hold of us. It is better to keep the wolf out of the fold, than to trust to drawing his teeth and talons after he shall have entered.” Thomas Jefferson.
Why don’t you media find out why the Obama administration rented out a property in Georgia and there is 155,000 coffin liners in that field. Do some real journalitic work instead of bashing Trump all the time
The earliest instance I can find of this conspiracy theory dates to 2007, and then updated to indict Obama.
Obama and company are past tense, don’tcha know?
Funny stuff, really.
What a bunch of bullshiest….
The Democrats turned freaking NAZIS after they realized they can no longer win the popular vote…
The average person doesn’t want the NAZIS in office…
IF the NAZIS, Democrats … could win at the ballot box … WHY DO THEY HAVE TO USE THE MEDIA TO SPREAD HATE THROUGH FEAR MONGERING?
swisscheese
You respond to DocHollywood:
“…….How do you accommodate those assumptions with your argument?……”
You are talking to a wall. For the alt left, there is a neocon hiding in every closet and behind every wall in Washington. When Trump supports detente with Russia, Trump is resisting the neocons in favor of a “realist” foreign policy. When Trump criticizes Iran, the neocons are in charge once again. In the mixed up anti-American world of the radical left, neocons rule Washington (no matter who is in power). DocHollywood is an extreme leftist where all decisions in Washington are governed by oil and, of course, the agenda of the dangerous neocons. To far left whack-jobs like DocHollywood, PNAC was the most important world-changing organization in American History. It’s impossible to convince him otherwise.
@Karl
COMMON WORD
Here’s Seyyed Hossein Nasr on the “Common Word” between Christians and Muslims. It’s been split into multiple parts, but I think there is a complete version on YouTube somewhere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY63ohsftV4&list=PLWtuz076x3-S4dMq6J1Xc5IiBq4-d4ArH&index=2
Many Muslims and Christians are trying to find the common ground between each other. As a matter of fact, between all religions (I extend that to the non-religious people as well, as I see a lot more common ground with many atheists than with some of my co-religionists).
It would be nice if major TV networks spent some time on these bridge-building efforts.*
It seems that the forces that want to burn bridges are in control. And the media obliges by giving them exclusive coverage.
Where are the 9:00 PM town halls in which the likes of Seyyed Hossein Nasr talk about the essence of religions and what is common between us all?
Islam’s reality within the context of the current geo-political conflicts has been distorted quite a bit.
—-
* Actually, it would be nice if The Intercept held a town hall meeting with the likes of Seyyed Hossein Nasr and some of the non Muslim scholars, to talk about the common ground and building bridges. It would give a much broader perspective than merely examining religions within the context of geo-politics.
Good idea TI gives valuable points of view but often misses the deeper context and meaning. I would like to see them do what you suggest and a couple of more topic, listed below. They could also post a topic and let the TI committers ask question and provide sources of information then let the staff write the article.
Topics of Interest:
Why When We Call It a War Do We Always Screw It Up?
War on drugs, cancer, crime, poverty, our real wars in general.
There are the same central failures in all our wars.
What Happen To World Population If Agriculture Were disrupted 50% for two Years? Where are the food reserves stored or is the field to market delivery so efficient a few billion will starve. Can we handle two years let alone seven lean years.
Yes.
But it is a political website, after all. So their primary focus is politics and geo-politics and geo-conflicts, etc.
That said, my suggestion would extend the scope of this website.
But I’d give the same suggestion to other media outlets.
I watched Bill Maher on a CNN town hall meeting the other night.
Horrible performance! Re-confirmed my thoughts on Maher.
Here, Von Jones had an excellent opportunity to get a real scholar.
Instead, we were presented with an amateur.
Bill Moyer type of sober, reflective, penetrating, discussions are needed in the media.
Instead, we are getting tweets and endless discussions on them, and lots and lots of sound bites, distortions and “breaking news”!
If there was ever a question about whether or not The Intercept is a full on supporter of the status quo Neolibeal establishment this propaganda hit peace should eliminate them completely. I mean really, using ISIS as a stand in for HITLER in hyperbolic rhetoric reminiscent of the kind of “reporting” found in the Washington Post. What’s the difference really…not much.
Operated by an elite group of rich white men and funded by an oligarch be careful who you trust.
Warmongering and fear spreading politicians have a symbiotic relationship with terrorists. Whenever one is successful, the power of the other party amplifies. It’s a vicious cycle with both feeding each other perpetually.
If you want to stop terrorism, do not vote for the politicians who use the fear of terrorism to vouch for more violence and more intrusion. All they will do is ask for more and more of your freedom and tax dollars and they’ll never have any credible progress to show for it.
“When Trump ran a campaign built on promises to destroy ISIS, how can one explain the fact that supporters of the group in Mosul were reportedly celebrating his Muslim ban?”
Because Osama bin Laden won. He and his followers were determined to bring America’s warring in and of “their lands” to the American people. That’s what he/they did by “911”.
Neocons — paleocons actually — are among the people most ignorant of history, American history, world history. They are and have been blinded by their own delusional sense of self-righteousness. (Something they share with the bin Laden’s of the world. Stalin? Mussolini? Pinochet? Ah… Trump shall be added to that list of names.)
Conservatives slit America’s throat by electing Donasshole Trump. (With the support of the anti-Hillary Democrats.)
Don Trump. An appropriate designation, i.e “Crime Boss”.
But also, as so many continually and falsely attribute to Don Trump logic and reason! Trump’s “promises to destroy ISIS” was bullshit! He had and has no clue was ISIS is! Just a vague, ignorant, “we’ll bomb the sh*t out of them” statement is not anything near a foreign policy stance. Don Trump is a complete and utter moron that knows nothing of the world he lives in beyond the few blocks he resides in.
Yeah, sure, he knows real estate. But real estate is mostly a con job. Too few know that, to our demise.
Don Trump does not hold a thought more than three minutes at a time. Anyone writing about Don Trump’s “promises” is kidding themselves, and they know not of what they speak.
LAT: Stop comparing Trump to foreign leaders. He’s a distinctly American phenomenon
The truth is less histrionic. Oprah Winfrey doesn’t give lengthy, breezy, venues of opportunity to “anti-black racism,” as she did in 1988:
_”Donald Trump Teases a President Bid During a 1988 Oprah Show | The Oprah Winfrey Show | OWN”_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI
NBCUniversal wasn’t aware of “anti-black racism” because there was none. NBCUniversal gives business to non-initiates as long as they don’t stray into national executive-level politics.
100% why this radical far right regime led by Bannon must be stopped permanently.
The progressive left would have to get vocabularies first. “Koch” and “1%” and “racist” and “folks” aren’t going to work on a net-awakened public.
It appears they’re sleeping in.
Well, certainly the mass media or the mainstream media has historical links to intelligence agencies. This is known and documented. It’s clear that the mainstream media is there to support a consensus with regard to foreign policy, it’s there to distort events, but it’s got to such an extent … The mainstream media hasn’t always been like that. If we go back to the Vietnam War, we had critical reporting on what was happening, up to a point. But if we start to look and see how does the mainstream cover the war in Syria? Well, they forget to mention that ISIS, the Islamic State, is supported covertly by United States.
They actually will admit it and then they will in a sense refute their own lies. They will admit it in so many words. They’ll say, ‘Oh, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are supporting the ISIS.’ But Turkey and Saudi Arabia are allies of the United States. Saudi Arabia doesn’t act without consulting Washington. So there we have a mainstream media which has evolved towards essentially presenting the lie as the truth, and that’s a fundamental relationship. Because when the lie becomes the consensus there’s no turning backwards.
craigsummers v craigsummers
– craigsummers, repeating over and over that Assad started the war before the US intervened against Syria with plans that included support for jihadi terrorists.
– craigsummers, explaining the type of person who does what he has just done again:
1) “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”
– General (retired) Wesley Clark, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, discussing how he learned of US plans for war and “regime change” throughout the Middle East shortly after 9/11.
DemocracyNow, March 2, 2007.
2) “It was a willful decision [by the Obama administration] to do what they’re doing [in supporting the radical jihadists]. . .and I will tell you, it goes before 2012. I mean, when we were, when we were in Iraq and we still had decisions to be made before there was a decision to pull out of Iraq in 2011. I mean, it was very clear what we were, what we were going to face.”
– General (retired) and Director (Fmr) of the US Defense Intelligence Agency and now national security adviser to the President, Michael Flynn, on US support for radical jihadists – later to emerge as ISIL and Al Nusra – against Syria.
Head to Head, Al Jazeera, July 29, 2015.
3) “To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda. [the outcome of which was predicted by the DIA before the violent crackdown on dissent by Assad]”
The New Yorker, March 5, 2007
4) “Classified U.S. diplomatic cables show that the State Department has funneled as much as $6 million to the group since 2006 to operate the satellite channel and finance other activities inside Syria.
. . .The U.S. money for Syrian opposition figures began flowing under President George W. Bush after he effectively froze political ties with Damascus in 2005. The financial backing has continued under President Obama, even as his administration sought to rebuild relations with Assad. In January, the White House posted an ambassador to Damascus for the first time in six years.
. . . Syrian authorities “would undoubtedly view any U.S. funds going to illegal political groups as tantamount to supporting regime change,” read an April 2009 cable signed by the top-ranking U.S. diplomat in Damascus at the time. “A reassessment of current U.S.-sponsored programming that supports anti-[government] factions, both inside and outside Syria, may prove productive,” the cable said.”
– ‘U.S. secretly backed Syrian opposition groups, cables released by WikiLeaks show’
The Washington Post, April 17, 2011.[h/t to Reader]
Let’s say for a second that your weak evidence is acceptable: The US government in a top secret room in Texas planned a regime change in Syria, Libya….
Now you need to strengthen your argument by resolving those issues:
1) Your argument assumes that thousands (probably millions) who went on the streets in Libya, Egypt, Syria, in 2011 demanding political freedom were not influenced by Tunisians, but were just part of the US secret plan
2) The incidents in Daraa, Syria and Omari Mosque in 2011 where SYRIAN SECURITY FORCES FIRED ON protesters who demanded PEACEFULLY the release of teenagers who were being tortured in SYRIAN jail under the SYRIAN Government control were also part of the US secret plan
3) Every major human rights organizations that are well respected and have a history of blaming ALL sides in conflicts including the US were part of the US secret plans when they denounced Assad’s atrocities against PEACEFUL protesters in 2011.
4) PEACEFUL protesters who took arms against Syrian security forces who were killing them were not humans who by nature tend to defend themselves, but were just part of the US secret plan.
5) Finally Syrian soldiers who publicly stated they would not shoot PEACEFUL protesters anymore, but would protect them were also part of the US secret plan.
How do you accommodate those assumptions with your argument?
does it matter?
the YINON PLAN IS DEAD
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/12/14/497860/Palestine-Israel-Negotiation-Ramini
the israelis are afraid of many things
1. the US citizens will learn from the Russians that certain club members running a criminal currency scheme are destroying society, the planet, ownership of public resources, and much more
2. the world condemnation of the israeli apartheid state and genocide
3. israelis in the US being discovered betraying America by stealing tax dollars to finance israeli armageddon against Palestine
4. alliance between Americans and Russian as the whores of congress can no longer continue their lies that Russia is some sort of enemy as the whores of congress lied about WMD
5. the murderer of Seth Rich
You’ve made a really good point.
There’s no way to accommodate the facts – the articles, the leaked cables and Pentagon memo predating the war, and the explicit descriptions by military leaders explaining how the US planned and initiated the war against Syria – with your assumptions.
Craig Summers is accurately quoting me just a bit below on the matter or Zionists and their affinity for Nazism. To learn more, please see Thomas Suarez’ new book: State of Terror: How terrorism created modern Israel .
Suarez was recently invited to speak to London’s House of Lords about his book. His speech extensively reflects the stomach-turning facts documented (often with primary sources) in his book:
It’s really not possible to overstate how shocking this book is. The extent to which Zionist Jews aggressively worked to PREVENT German Jews, including children, from being saved, unless they were guaranteed to be saved for Palestine ONLY, is sickening. Otherwise, they wanted their fellow Jews to experience antisemitism and die, so the survivors would be more inclined to become Zionists. Zionists actively admired the Nazis and explicitly copied their strategies in their terror campaigns against Arabs as well as politically disobedient Jews.
Zionists indoctrinated Jewish children to become terrorists and to, e.g., blow up buses full of Arab civilians, Jewish children as young as 12 were coerced into this. Parents and teachers who dared object were subjected to harassment, terror and even assassination.
Do read the speech, and do obtain the book. Even if I consumed this thread withe the enormous amount of horrific facts about Zionism and Zionists, I could not convey all that is in the work. Its’ truly overwhelming. This is not an Israel thread, however, and as usual with Craig, I won’t reply to him if he replies to this.
1) You tell all readers to ignore him, you tell all readers you ignore him and then you write a long comment on top of the thread about what he wrote.
2) Your long thread relates to Suarez and his book: “State of Terror: How terrorism created modern ISRAEL”
And your last statement: ” This is not an Israel thread…”
Pretending to ignore a commenter, contradictory reasoning = NO DEBATING SKILLS.
Yes, you’ve repeatedly declared me to lack debating skills. However, I have far too much real world evidence against that position to accept it, as well as numerous comments from others here also in contradiction of your now rather predictable repetition.
As for Israel and Mr. Summers, please, rush right down to his thread and explain to Craig he’s demonstrating a need for therapy. For you see, he undertook a lengthy rant about me and my commentary on Israel and it’s domestic Lobby. As we’ve seen, you consider that an indication of a psychological disorder in need of professional therapy.
You did make an error, however, in stating I “pretend to ignore” Mr. Summers. No, what I consistently say is that most often — 95% of the time — I do not reply to him. I’ve further said I only glance thru his lengthy walls of text, which is so. This last time I saw the entire thing was about me, me and my statements about Israel and Zionists.
Well, as you can see, I had a good deal of further information on that topic which he introduced, and so I shared it. But I have no interest in continuing to discuss it with him.
Mona now admits Jews can be Nazis. She resisted that for a long time.
Mona is also now less “empiricist” than she used to be, but that’s a different topic.
In Real Bowling Green Massacre, a White Supremacist Planned Attack Against African Americans & Jews
DocHollywood
I have posed a question to you several times about comments Mona made about Zionist and Jews. You continue to refuse to respond which suggest that you are an anti-Jewish bigot. Do you believe the comments below cross the line into antisemitism?
Mona calling Adolph Eichmann a Zionist:
Mona repeating this claim to another poster:
According to Wikipedia,
Mona’s response (agreeing with David Duke)
A person’s silence suggests nothing. Silence is not any sort of acknowledgment or affirmation. You cannot infer anything by it.
Craig knows that. But it’s ok — he has made it appropriate to post about the new book I write of above and I’m not exactly unhappy about that, given that I’d have everyone read it. Indeed, I’ve lobbied to have it reviewed at this site.
DocHollywood
Hmmm. Seems like an attempt at a joke. Better just to stick with losing political debates, Doc.
Radical Islam is a world-wide anti-globalization movement, but the center of the movement is focused in the greater Middle East. See how easy that is to interpret, Doc?
The operation was carried out by the Yemen branch of al-Qaeda in revenge for insulting the Prophet Muhammed (al-Jazeera, “Al-Qaeda in Yemen claims Charlie Hebdo attack”. @AJENews http://aje.io/ex75):
It had nothing to do with US bombing campaigns or killing Muslims.
The most refugees have come from Syria – a war initiated by Assad the murderer who used military force to quash a democracy movement. Amnesty International just published a report detailing the hanging of between 5000 and 13000 (Muslim) detainees. This is on top of an earlier report by Amnesty detailing the “death” of another 17000 (Muslim) detainees. The US has not done much in North Africa outside of an occasional drone attack (outside of Libya). Mostly this is just more of the typical Muslims slaughtering Muslims by al-Shabaab, Boko Haram, Ghaddafy etc. Even Iraq turned into a killing and ethnic cleansing spree between Sunni terrorists and Shia death squads. Sectarian violence and murder is such a Islamic thing now a days, Doc.
Of course, that is false Doc. The US supported Mubarak but he was overthrown by the people in Egypt. That is ample proof that the US did not prevent the democracy movement from fulfilling its goal. Al-Sissi decided on his own to remove Morsi without any help from the US – simple as that. I explained the Syria civil war above which was entirely the fault of Assad who promised reforms, but didn’t deliver. France, Britain and the US intervened on behalf of the Arab Spring (liberal intervention) to prevent a potential slaughter of the civilian population in Libya. One never knows when a slaughter like in Rwanda is going to take place.
The US removed two dictators from power. One freed the Kurds and the Shia in Iraq from minority Sunni rule and the other prevented a potential civilian slaughter. On the other hand, Iran, Hezbollah and Russia are propping up the biggest terrorist in the Middle East. Al-Sissi returned Egypt to autocratic rule without any help from the US. The 1979 Iranian revolution replaced the US supported dictatorship with the far worse Islamic government still in power today. Finally, no one kills more Muslims than Muslims.
Thanks Doc.
Mona says a contraction is a slur, then she giggles about mind control.
@Communete
Whether that’s so or not, we are discussing transgendered people, not transsexuals. An example of a transgendered person is the brave hero, Chelsea Manning. (Who’s getting out of prison in mid-May! And can be financially supported here.)
You hurled the epithet “tranny.” That’s disgusting.
This post is a perfect example of the way in which Mona attempts to control the top of the thread while simultaneously burying posts below to which she can not muster an honest, cogent response. Notice that she has no problem with posting off topic commentary for which she incessantly faults others by characterizing it a “crap flooding.”
Are you opposed to giving prominence to the fundraiser for Chelsea Manning? Glenn’s been boosting it repeatedly on Twitter. I know you’ll find no opposition from the Intercept to doing so here, or opposition to rejecting Communete’s bigotry.
Mona has to wear her financial support for Bradley on her sleeve for all to see.
Yes, I can understand her need to do so after being shown up for the chronic liar that she is.
I believe you are going to find what you have done in misgendering Chelsea, and with the “tranny” slur, is considered a violation of this commenting rule:
You are about to find out.
Whatever, O’Brien. How many fingers are you holding up?
Again, look at the way in which Mona is attempting to conflate her behavior with that of Glenn Greenwald’s in attempt avoid acknowledging her blatant hypocrisy.
maybe. Sometimes women respond to be lifted up or being offered a step or an invite in some way. ie – i was on my way to being married to this woman who was a doubter of herself in a sport because of a handicap, she failed until she met me. I insisted she had champion qualities and could excel. Not casually but with frequency of confidence, direction, support, encouragement etc. She began winning so many trophies that she no longer had time for me. I do not regret it. Inspiring a woman to have the last say or more say to give her strength, determination, a place, no matter how it sounds, is a most rewarding feeling. There is something very wonderful about Mona. As women are the bearers and preservers of life, as for me, it is always good to read and understand what they have to say.
Perhaps this is why having a queen of country tends to make men more rational.
Lofty praise by and for professional degenerates; baaaad theatre for the strictly domestic audience.
Only the truth can set one free. Mona is clearly a narcissistic sociopath. Thus she has no qualms about acting unconscionably in the effort to preserve her own overly inflated ego. Like Trump, she will even lie about lying – even in the face of incontrovertible proof. As I have always suspected that you are one of her sock puppets, it does not surprise me that you would speak of her (yourself) in such glowing terms.
and the pages of a book are white, until you close the book.
You are a deep and learned thinker and i relish your insights.
I only wish to validate as many perspectives as possible since we all live in different worlds and at the same time, just one.
Somehow those differences must fit together and work.
I need to see what works best to preserve both.
Jesus has come and gone. I think perhaps God is going to Phase 3, that being the place you most wish to live with and always return to.
It is the responsibility of the President of the US to do things to prevent the country from potential attack. It is NOT the responsibility of the courts. Persons who are not citizens of the US HAVE NO RIGHTS BY US LAW. They have privileges which may be withdrawn AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT NOTICE.
But the lawyers want to rule the country as was seen by hellary’s push for the TPP. Lawyers do not like being told what to do by a president who is not a lawyer. It hurts their egos. Jesus had that problem. Here we go again.
It is emphatically the duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret the rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Court must decide on the operation of each.
If courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.
Citation unnecessary for minimally-educated Americans,
the Consitution is but a template abstract which sets the BOUNDARIES for some laws which are the rules by which departments and organisation implement, protect and function. The congress and courts of the US have unnecessarily complicated everything with a virtual flood of laws which are now so voluminous, they are written in [code]. This is not the way for human beings, it is the way for robots. Jesus taught all how to live successfully as a human being because the Old Testament solutions did not work. That is to say, by smoting people, God set a bad example.
The courts in the US today have mutated into an industry onth themselves and attract business like a black hole in space. I stand by my ignorance of more convoluted complexities.
this sums it up
Trump tweets: ‘Our legal system is broken!’
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/319069-trump-tweets-our-legal-system-is-broken
sure is
You may want it that way, but it ain’t necessarily so, barabbas. Perhaps you could cite the statute you’re attempting to legitimize out of thin air.
Aliens, legal or illegal, are persons, whether you like it or not.
I’ll wait.
I have a question for you Mr. Hussain: Can amoral behavior be justified if it is initiated to ostensibly serve moral ends as solely defined by the initiator? More to the point: can propaganda masquerading as journalism ever be justified?
False. The order was based on law enacted by the Obama administration. The capacity to vet a national of any given nation relies heavily on the cooperation of that nation. The seven nations cited by the Trump administration were already identified by the Obama as hostile to US interests.
You are stepping on your own dick here Murtaza. If the Islamic State is as polarized as Bannon by that type of “binary view” that invariably gives rise to the religiously-driven desire for a fated apocalyptic end to mankind, then why would the US want to open up immigration from countries where the Islamic State is most heavily situated (eg Syria) and in which the problem of vetting is most pronounced? Wouldn’t it be in Bannon’s interest to let a few suicide bombers enter the country withthe hope of another attack akin to that of 9/11? Wouldn’t such an attack better serve the goal of initiating a “war of civilizations”?
The duopoly comes with two wings and and single legislative body. The laws enacted by each administration merely forms the basis upon which future policy is perceived to rely. Do you honestly believe that President Obama did not consider the consequence of his actions when he signed into law legislation upon which the current administration is relying to advance a neoliberal geopolitical strategy that has been in the making for over half a century? P.s. the New York Times just ran an article that highlighted the fact that four major campaign promises by Trump have now been either delayed or abandoned in deference to those put in place by the Obama administration:
1. Iran Nuclear deal
2. Israeli settlements
3. Obamacare (action delayed for at least a year)
4. Taiwan (one China policy)
Furthermore, there are other campaign promises and or postures that are approaching a precipice:
1. NAFTA – legally binding, international treaties are almost impossible to reject
2. TPP – initial rejection of TPP has created a policy vacuum wherein US based, transnational corporate aspirations in the far east are at risk of being eclipsed by those of an emerging China/Russia/Syria/Iran trading bloc in absence of an imediate workable alternative. As it to years to negotiate the terms of TPP, it is unlikely that TPP will not be resurrected with claims of it being new and improved like the repackaging of a breakfast cereal.
3. Easing tensions with Russia via the removal of sanctions is opposed by the intelligence community. As we have already observed the degree to which Trumps rhetoric has come to echo that of the intelligence community, removal the sanctions seems unlikely in the short term.
Yes, one in a series of raids conducted by special operations forces since the 1960s that are designed to attack civilian infrastructure and/or leadership of those hostile to American interests. Again, it was Obama who claimed the privilege of targeting anyone, anywhere without the benefit of due process and with little concern for collateral damage.
Yes, there is nothing that says “calm” like tens of thousands of bombs dropped on Muslim majority countries:
In 2016, the United States dropped 26,172 bombs in seven countries of which most (24,287) were dropped in Iraq and Syria. And nothing says serene like the officially acknowledged number of “563 strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms, compared to 57 strikes under Bush. Between 384 and 807 civilians were killed in those countries, according to reports logged by the Bureau.” But hey, the comparison of Trump to Hitler is far more apt because…???
Bueler..? Bueler…? Ferris Bueler….?
The best response to that long-winded screed is to point that below you whine about being strongly opposed on this:
To say your political views and judgment are retrograde would be a massive understatement. You voted for Donald Trump and have recently crowed about being so happy that you did.
Mona I truly appreciate your sobering (slobbering?) responses as they remind me that, while even walking in and idyllic pastoral setting, one still has to be concerned with stepping in the shit of others. The very fact that you have knowingly made the unprovable (because it never happened) claim that I “voted for trump” speaks definitively to the degree to which anything you say warrants serious consideration. In short, it is a dirty bird that shits in its own nest. But hey, it is not uncommon for narcissistic sociopaths to ingest their own shit as if it were Mana from heaven. Mona’s Mana? Has a rather nice ring, don’t you think?
Is that right?
Ha!
I guess I shouldn’t laugh, as this could be the result of a traumatic brain injury. Did you fall on your head, Karl?
Or has the drinking gotten out of hand?
I have friends who are top-notch practitioners in both neurosurgery and addiction psychiatry, so just let me know if you’d like me to set up a referral.
This is simply amazing. A man who is constantly (and baselessly) shrieking that *I* am liar, brazenly denies a fact about himself that only two days before he’d been loudly celebrating. Who does that?
To all of you who are astute enough to follow link provided by Mona, you will find the following disclaimer directly attached to the post that she falsely attributes to me:
Isn’t it interesting that Mona created a post in my name yesterday that she is now attempting to use as purported proof of her false claims. Although she might rely on plausible deniability in claiming that she was not the author of the post that was created in my name, she cannot deny knowing that I had denounced it as my own. Yet, here she is nevertheless reposting it as if it were fact. What does this say about Mona’s credibility? Now watch her try and squirm out from underneath this collapsing castle of lies that she has built for herself by claiming it was just a joke – or some other lie that is as equally reflective of her character.
P.s. Pay close attention to the posts that immediately follow in support of her own as they may give you some indication of the names the she routinely posts under to the perceived disadvantage of you all.
No Karl. What happened is that you were in pre-mod (and/or posting under a new email address for the first time), and didn’t realize that a comment you tried to make on the 9th didn’t post until a day later.
Shall I ask to have the ISP addresses associated with the comments checked? I’m quite happy to do so if you wish to continue with this nonsense. Do keep in mind that Glenn Greenwald has emphatically stated that I do not use multiple accounts, and that he knows this becasue of his administrative access to ISP addresses.
Well?
What difference does it make whether I posted my rebuttal on the ninth or tenth? It is now the Eleventh and you have chosen to ignore my rebuttal with the specious aim of claiming something that I categorically denied.
In regard to having my IP address checked on the phony post and its adjoining rebuttal, GO FOR IT!!! I will remind you however that you have already recently denied that The Intercept is logging the ID addresses of those who contribute. So twice the liar? I am definitely on board with your proposal.
Does everyone now see how Mona makes her self a prisoner of her own lies? One lie necessitates another and then another… If I were a writer for the Intercept, I would cringe at the thought of Mona besmirching my reputation by presuming to defend my positions by any (dishonest) mean possible. Fuckin pathetic!
Very well Karl. I am going to ask to have it checked tomorrow when someone is awake, and also ask to object that you continue to insist that I am using socks after I — and one of the others you have accused of being me — have already complained for all of the reasons Glenn already set forth as being objections to this behavior of yours.
I note, by the way, you do not deny having been in pre-mod. I know why that happened, and you’re again committing the same objectionable behaviors. You truly cannot control yourself, in your deep hatred for me, just as you cannot control your hatred for black people.
Specifically, on January 28 Glenn wrote:
So Karl, shall I ask to have this all checked?
So then… you are now acknowledging that the Intercept logs the IP addresses of those who contribute?
Is everyone watching this. Notice how Mona is attempting to use Glenn Greenwald as a shield now that I have accepted her challenge!!! This is the typical behavior of a narcissistic sociopath. She is doing so because she has painted herself into a corner and she has no other place to go. AGAIN, please provide the IPs of the two posts to which you falsely attribute to me. Show me up for the liar that you claim that I am if you can! Absent that proof, everyone can conclude that that which I claim about you is true. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
branching off into fantasy?
ISIS comes batteries-included…it does not need help validating its desparate and fanatical narrative.
Actually ISIS was created in Factory U.S.A when it built the Iraq War. Now we have Trump and Bannon fueling the murderous group Uncle Sam assembled. Is this a great country or what?
The post lightly [edited] for accuracy:
“[I’ve] be[en] the Dick – far too [long] in my opinion.
Respected academics like Samuel Huntington have also proposed similar theories so it is not really [surprising that I can’t come-up with a coherent] political thought. However, [my] ever shrinking, irreversibly [damaged brain frequently produces nonsensical phrases like:] “global anti-globalization movement centered in the greater Middle East.”
It’s more of a [slaughter] as the west [produces and provides the cluster-bombs, missiles, and drones bringing terror to] the Muslim world – with violent extremists [receiving] fund[ing through US proxies]. The Charlie Hebdo massacre (al-Qaeda) is a good example of the [inevitable blowback]. Al-Qaeda is no different than ISIS – using a[mple] western [support] to promote a jihadists war a[s] the west [stokes the violence] to fulfill the anti-democratic reestablishment of [control over Middle East oil].
[As a result, m]illions of Muslims have [fled] to Europe principally from the greater Middle East (including North Africa)[; coincidently, that’s where the west and its quislings have unleashed the most violence. Go figure.] The pace of [destruction] has [been] ex[traordinary;] some [innocent people] have rejected European [demands that they stay put and just hope and pray their families aren’t starved or blown to smithereens] (essentially).
Far right anti-[Muslim bigots couldn’t care less that this has lead to] increased terrorism in Europe and elsewhere – and the 5000(+) Muslims who have left Europe to join ISIS. The [neocons and their “liberal” warhawks] promoted the wholesale increase in Muslim [slaughter] with [obvious lies about WMDs and democracy promotion while proclaiming] good intentions, but the fallout was predictable. Germany [is just one] example of [what happens when a government acquiesces to the hegemonic demands of the elite-serving global superpower]. Bannon and Trump draw their support from [disaffected] people in the US.
A[merican support for a]uthoritarian rulers in the Middle East [is primarily to] blame for the violence associated with jihadists. [Democracy] has been marginalized [consis]tently for the past century [as the US unleashed horrific] violence [on the] like[s of] Libya and Syria. Al-Sissi [- with the necessary American military support so obvious that the accompanying toothless public “tut-tutting ” by US officials could only fool a rube -] violently overthrew the elected Morsi government murdering hundreds of protesting [Egyptians]. The Muslim Brotherhood is now designated a terrorist organization in Egypt [as is every democratically elected Arab government]. Over half of the population in Egypt voted for the MB candidate. As long as the political powers in the [US] marginalize [Muslim] populations, this will increase the violence as well as the membership of jihadists organizations like ISIS and al-Qaeda. The Muslim Brotherhood is a fundamentalist Islamic organization, but proved (in Egypt at least) that it was willing to work within the democratic process[; therefore, it is a “terrorist group”]
The Trump policy of smashing ISIS (and al-Qaeda) is a good idea [which I explicitly opposed previously in comments here]. ISIS is not interested in becoming a part of the political process [in the same way I’m not interested in morality or consistency]. They do not serve the promotion of democracy in the Middle East [which doesn’t really bother me,] a self-serving, violent, anti-democratic racist. . .”
Well done again, Doc. I no longer ever read an entirety of Craig’s posts — at best I glance through them. That you do read them, in order to provide this service, is above and beyond.
Yes. I now only read Craig in Doc’s translations.
I’d request similar translations for Communete and mary steyr, but I understand that can’t be done in character sets that can be rendered here.
You know mary steyr is John Anderson, right? (He’s never tried to hide it.) My feelings about John’s stuff are conflicted.
Thanks Mona and Doug;
Wading through his shiz is like draining an abscess – stinky and awful.
It’s easy for me because I’m used to all sorts of gross stuff, but in my pre-med days either one would have made me hurl.
At this point the best hope to stop the war between Christians and Muslims is that the Christians have to ask for their movement back. I mean, a clash of civilizations is inevitable – one side follows a true martyr with a message of hope faith and love, the other follows a pirate. But the Christians should not rest easy with civilian casualties, torture, oppression, inhumanity, unjust war. Armed with relentless weapons like mercy, repentance, honesty, and justice, they could smash aside enemies and unhinged “friends” alike, and leave a world yet worth fighting for.
I’ve heard Jesus figures very prominently as an honored prophet in Islam.
Islamic people kill more Islamic people than people of any other religion. Jesus is one of their prophets but it makes little difference to their war for power and resources.
Which actually proves my point that religion is never the reason why people fight, but it definitely helps people to rationalize after they have killed a few, provided they have not used suicide-bombs to do their trick.
Excusing violence and greed is something the West and many of its allies also do very well, permitting corporatism, militarism and imperialism to be weaponized in the name of Full Spectrum Dominance. People like Bannon and George W. Bush, as you indicate, put a religious veneer upon these atrocities, but as with so-called ‘Islamic extremists’ the religious fervor takes on a life of its own – worsening the situation to troublingly apocalyptic dimensions shared by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike. And this is the subject at hand.
Christian people kill more Christian people than people of any other religion, but when it comes to killing Muslims, Christians prefer to do it from a remote distance — letting patriotic software developers do their trick.
I have to say, whatever issues I’ve had with you, that was exceptionally clever and insightful.
Islam is the closest to Christianity than any other religion in the world when it comes to Jesus, as far as Islam’s primary and the earliest source, the Quran, is concerned (save the beliefs the Muslims developed later based on other sources):
1. Jesus was born to Virgin Mary.
2. He was a Word from God.
3. He was the Messiah. Messiah = Word
4. They did not slay the Messiah. That is, Word, that is, his Divine side, did not die, leaving the possibility of his human side being crucified.
5. He performed miracles.
6. He brought God’s message.
The conflicts between Christians and Muslims are unfortunate consequence of sibling rivalries, exclusivistic tendencies, hatred and materialistic gains.
Many see in the other religion a competitor for the hearts and souls of humanity.
Wnt is a bona fide in-house anti-Islam. He thinks he understands The Islam. He does not.
I find rivalries between religions utterly repulsive, so thanks for speaking up. It seems unlikely to me that an evidence of ‘spiritual goodness’ is to so lack virtue that thought is reduced to infantile “My god’s better than your god” nonsense. If love is far from one’s heart religion can be quite hideously evil and mentally ruinous, and for what it’s worth my strident objections to faith do not apply to those like you who pointedly eschew the rank egotism and exclusivity that orthodoxies generally encourage.
Every single human being has access to that indescribable zone, or light if you will.
But the ego gets in the way.
Organized religions are not helping much in terms of enabling humans to stop seeing otherness.
Which is why the religion of Wnt is as much at fault as any other organized religion, as one can see how exclusivist he tends to be, just like how exclusivist many Muslims tend to be.
“The conflicts between Christians and Muslims are unfortunate consequence of sibling rivalries, exclusivistic tendencies, hatred and materialistic gains.”
Correction:
“The conflicts between communities and nations are unfortunate consequences of …”
Hitler and Napoleon were Christians, unfortunately.
False.
Hitler was not a Christian. He said, among other things, that “I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field [to be labeled a Christian].” The only reason Hitler called himself a Christian was for propaganda purposes, and his use of Christianity (which he called “an invention of sick brains,” a “scourge,” and “the peak of absurdity”) as a tool did not make him an adherent of it, as he himself admitted. See Albert Speer’s memoirs, for example.
Napoleon was not a Christian. He was a critic of Christianity, and his motives were all about personal ambition. He even converted to Islam, although, of course, this was just a ploy to win over the Egyptians to his side during his campaign there. He was also an admirer of Muhammad, although this has nothing to do with his warlike motives.
So, while you can make the claim that Hitler and Napoleon were Christians, you would be hard-pressed to find any evidence for it.
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]
Thank you for your many efforts to teach and bring understanding of Faith. We all are people of the Book. I wonder if the soldiers of ISIS, as I in my youth, every gazed at the wall to wall stars in a desert night and wonder how many Books are out there.
There is generally a severe lack of recognition of our common essence, and seeing oneness in diversity.
As I see it, the demand of our times is to groom our self so that it reflects the higher, regardless of the outer religious or non religious path we adhere to.
“We all are people of the Book. ”
No; only the folks who believe in magic are people of ‘the book’.
Judaism, Christianity, Islam; all are branches of the same river.
There were a great many humanistic pagans before the book-thumpers came along. Now, instead of ambrosia from the well of an oak-tree, we get Jesus turning water into wine.
Odd that not one of more than one hundred well-known authors from Rome, at the time of Jesus’s exploits, mention Jesus or any of his acts. More than 100 earthly authors don’t mention Jesus but one book from God spells it all out …
check.
“We all are people of the Book.”
—-
We are the book. The entire cosmos is the book. Our self is the book. Iqra (Read). Read what? We need to read our own self. What are we doing? Why are we doing? Why is there so much misery in the world? Why do we have leaders who reflect the lower self? Why are we spending so much on military and arms when there is so much poverty? Why are we building walls instead of bridges? Why do we see us vs them? Why are we destroying the planet? Why are we destroying habitats for so many species? Why are we killing each other?
On and on and on.
Yes, the exact message I got in the desert night, Jesus did the desert was there for 40 days I believe?
It seems Jesus came away from 40 days temptation in the desert with much the same message below. Maybe we should all fine our desert and take a knee and fine the core values and practice them , they are not greed, terrorism and war.
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.”
“Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”
It happens when the self stops seeing otherness.
One of the most disturbing things I have seen is the support of many of those who call themselves Christians of those who see otherness, and are full of ignorance and hatred.
Love we feel towards our selves and those closest to us, is for us to learn what love is and extend it to “others”.
But the ego and identity have to be dissolved first.
Your emphasis on the Word (aka Logos) is laudable as both faiths subscribe to the belief that it was/is the Divine source of all things manifest. I find it interesting that both faiths also adhere to the old testament claim that “light” was the first thing made manifest by that “Word.” This cosmology closely aligns with that of Hawkins in that Energy (light; E=MC2) is postulated to have spontaneously emerged from nothingness to provide the essential substance of which all things are comprised. Even Vedic tradition speaks of the Word (Brahman) to which “no end” is ascribed and from which all things (multiplicity) arise.
Seyyed Hossein Nasr has a long discourse on the Logos (Word) on YouTube. I’ll look for it tomorrow and post the link.
If I am not mistaken, he talks about the Quran inviting the Christians to the Word that is common between us, and its metaphysical meaning.
Martin Lings also talks about the common essence in religions, while they all present an aspect of the Infinite Reality.
The problem is that most religious people tend to focus on the diverse outer forms (doctrines and practices) and are not able to, or willing to, dive into the inner realities.
You can be saved by Jesus and be a muslim at the same time, yes?
You can follow the teachings of Muhamed and Jesus, yes?
A muslim can be washed of all original sin by simply acknowledging that Jesus gave his life up for all and not having to worship Jesus, but just make that acknlowledgement and go about one’s life as a muslim. Is this not possible?
This is what I often refer to as “outer forms” (doctrine), which adherents of religions fight over.
It’s identity religiosity.
No use.
The essence I talk about is beyond all this. To get to that we need to lose our identity, our biography.
The dead in Quebec have been buried. So you can resume sending pigs’ heads to your Muslim neighbors. Recall, I requested you to hold off after that terror attack against the Muslims?
Or, perhaps you can learn from this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/man-who-hated-muslims-refugees-omaha_us_589ca5d0e4b04061313c13f0?gulb30hv1icp1ra4i&
You actually get paid for this shit?
Benito on drugs. Nobody pays either, imo.
Is Mona’s neurotic thread posting volume over the years intimidating readers who may want to participate in the forums but are reluctant to because of the avalanche of Mona’s compulsive jacking of almost every thread?
Below you offensively used the epithet “tranny.” How do you imagine many, including transgendered people, would feel about that?
The context is the NY Times knowingly pushed the agenda every day, and you know that. I also don’t care about your neuroses and willful shit disturbing over politically expressive language.
There is no “context” in which a decent person hurls the word “tranny,” or strongly implies that a site writing sympathetically about transgendered people is bad, using that sympathy as evidence. Your have an obsession with both real and imagined “leftist” persons and venues that is part and parcel of your bizarre, pro-Trump, and deeply ugly worldview.
There’s no such thing as a transsexual anyway.
Mona the compulsive threadjacker commands 64 posts out of 175 on this thread. A full 37% of the comments on this page belong to her.
It’s still not her personal best on TI.
Which “hijacking” will continue as I, e.g., debunk you on inane and false claims about the Crusades and the Ottoman Empire.
“64 posts out of 175 on this thread. A full 37%… “
The bit about ‘pervasive pattern of grandiosity’ seems appropriate. I liken it to a child who has no concern for others on the playground and announces proudly that he has no intention of ever gaining concern.
Uh-huh.
BTW, among the questions you have not answered about your…peculiar assertions, one is here.
People are finding it very difficult to rationalize President Trump’s ban on the seven countries. That is because they are either calling it Muslim ban or terrorist ban, neither of which it actually is. However, if you look at it strictly from a jobs perspective, along with the border wall designed to keep cheap labor out, the mist will start to clear. The purpose of creating jobs within the country will be destroyed if those jobs did not employ the people who voted him to power, and instead employed Somalis and Iranians who should anyway stay back home and help to build their country.
Donald Trump and his Department of Justice have not defended the ban on the grounds you cite. Their explicit excuse is “national security,” which is how they’ve defended it in court.
C’mon Mona, you know better. A few terrorists can cause some major inconveniences, but on a grand scale it is nothing really to worry about. We can pull them out whenever we want, wherever we want. They don’t really terrorize us, and neither should we be scared when we have faced down greater adversaries.
But this terror business is easier to sell. If we told the courts its about jobs our powerful corporations will start their mutiny.
I don’t know about “civilizational war,” as I think you’re ultimately skirting around the elephant in the room, even while addressing its more fringe elements:
All extremist tribal-deity-worshippers involved want a religious conflict, because religion is at its root primitive, childish, superstitious and phenomenally dangerous. If a faith is so internally hysterical (and all religious orthodoxies are) as to not produce a sensible person it should be treated as causative of mental imbalance, as no one calling themselves “spiritual” resembles anything but a lunatic ‘witch doctor’ when they can not see that the grotesquely exclusivist external trappings of their faith are entirely opposed to the qualities of goodness, kindness and empathy which they purportedly support.
I have never met a religious person who was not slightly deranged (sometimes pleasantly, mostly not) and inappropriately confident about nonsense. The God of religion does not exist – it was rightly pronounced dead over a hundred years ago.
“Civilization” needs to grow up and take personal responsibility for the beautiful potentialities of virtuous mind and neither restrict the wonders of consciousness with the dogmatism of materialist atheism (which can be equally stale and binding) nor the institutionalized folkloric musings of primitive knuckleheads from millennia ago.
We want to hear again how you’re just a college student swimming with the big fish, the Debbie Matenopoulos of The Intercept.
I wish I got the joke – perhaps you do have a sense of humor, it’s just lost on me. I looked Debbie Matenopoulos (almost 20 years my senior) up on Wikipedia to see if I could get a hint, and it said there that she was parodied on SNL as an “uninformed ditz,” so maybe that’s where you’re going. Well, ha ha! You told me! I guess I should watch more TV, if I want to keep up with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYRJU9iKdtg
Yes, Isn’t it amazing how Maisie’s views and form of expression so closely align with Mona’s… Hey Maise, tell us again how this is your last day of posting in a manner that was, and continues to be, eerily reminiscent of Mona’s “where’s Waldo” charade. s few months back.
You are drooling. In point of fact, Maisie and I have frequently disagreed, sometimes strenuously. You actual issue with me is that I call out your disgusting racism and affinity for the white supremacist (and fellow Trumper)who just landed here.
I’m addicted to this place, much to many people’s annoyance including my girlfriend (bisexual and proud!) – however, soon (within weeks) it won’t really be an option as I’ll simply have to more carefully manage my time, but until then you’re stuck with me at least now and then. I’m frankly honored that you think I’m Mona, as she’s a powerhouse with whom I do, as you say, mostly agree. (But I must admit to being a bit jealous that she could just call up Greenwald for a chat, as that must be awesome.)
Not any more I can’t. Ever since Snowden for anything remotely personal and serious he’s totally encrypted, and I’m just not. I do, however, have an offer from Doug to get me there. He’s got the techie skills I so lack.
Sorry to hear that. Glad Doug can help.
Maisie, have you taken any courses in religious studies? While I am also an atheist and agree with aspects of your view, I’d recommend a scholarly examination of religion as both a sociological and psychological phenomenon. It’s more nuanced than you present.
Can’t say I’m interested in the ‘nuances’ of vicious fables, superstitions and irredeemably misogynist creepshows, no matter how they wish to disguise or escape their unpleasantly exclusivist and fairytale-dependent origins, but thanks for your input.
To dismiss all religion and the individuals who are religious in that manner is misanthropic, and in this case, anti-intellectual.
I’m not misanthropic, and I only speak this way when it’s relevant to the discussion. I see nothing ‘intellectual’ about studying dangerous nonsense as though it was remotely worthy of literal acceptance by anyone. I studied Greek Mythology, and it was described as such. Perhaps if a course appears similarly dissecting religious thought as inappropriate but psychologically telling of the communities originating it, that could be worth something to me. I’ll look out for that.
Not sure you’ll find one that is also moralizing on the appropriateness of having such thoughts; but if it’s a good class or book you’ll find evidence and narratives that will allow you to reaffirm that conviction, no problems at all.
I’ll look around once I have more time, then. Most I’ve seen described are so respectful of religious orthodoxy that I know I’ll get steamed in no time and probably say something in class more offensive than is really necessary.
Auditing belief systems is tough. Libertarians have been my bane for decades, mostly because their ideas have been inculcated into capitalism to such an extent that free will, personal liberty and personal responsibility as it is being applied to capitalism have overrun and corrupted the very things they purport to protect.
I can have all of the free will in the world, but without working mechanisms and programs (health care, living wages) in place to provide (not provide access) for the pursuit of a life worth living, libertarianism as it’s practiced is not a solution at all, it’s the largest problem, imo.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are right up there, but even though I married into the faith (after “causing” the disfellowship of my spouse, yeah team!) I don’t give any religion the same weight as I do libertarianism/capitalism, which adversely affects pretty much everyone on planet earth.
Just a cute gif that means nothing.
It’s possible misanthrophy should be the default, objective position, if humanity as a whole (or >50% of humans or something) sucks. Whether towards each other or anything non-human.
There certainly isn’t any innate goodness just from being a human. Nor any innate potential for rational thought, considering the majority believe in fairy tales. No matter why–psychological relief, tradition from early times, humans believe in some pretty stupid things, and if not the cause of a lot of bad shit is used as justification for such.
Being anti-theist, or even anti-human, can be considered a moral position depending on chosen axioms. And can be consistently logical (except of course for the axioms–all moralities are derived from initial subjective oughts), so “intellectual”.
Both you and Maisie evince a superficial understanding of religion. It is not only, or always, a collection of myths (and those myths are not always believed literally).
Religion is the consideration of Ultimate Questions. The specific answers, especially as propounded by literalists, can be absurd and harmful. But humanity’s consideration of how it is that we should live together is important, and religion seeks to give those answers.
I’m an atheist. One who has more in common with the Sufi Muslims, the Berrigan Brothers and the Gandhis of this world than I do a great many atheists. They seek/sought to live centered lives, to stand for justice, and acknowledge the ineffability of the universe and existence.
Our five primary senses almost certainly do not tell us all there is to know about this universe. We are limited. None of the notions of an anthropomorphic deity who intervenes in the affairs of humankind strike me as remotely plausible. But I also realize I simply do not, and cannot know what is ultimately real. Not through empiricism. Attempts at other ways of knowing, depending on how they would apply answers, are not per se illegitimate.
I said earlier, for what it’s worth (in the initial comment about this):
(emphasis added)
Which is similar in its way to your “But I also realize I simply do not, and cannot know what is ultimately real.” I just find religion on the whole too much of a backward-looking philosophical mindset with dangerously inappropriate roots to be worthy of respect – though some (too few)practitioners do indeed accomplish surprising results with what I perceive to be the despicable and unnecessary limits they accept for themselves.
I sincerely think you’d find some religious studies courses deeply fascinating. At least as it’s approached at a secular university, it’s both subversive of the worst aspects of literalist, organized religion while at the same time illuminating about the role of religion in human culture and psychology.
Among other things, it can really open one’s eyes to the ways in which nationalism is usually attended by civil religion, often to great harm. American civil religion is not at all innocuous. I recall first learning it was Jehovah’s Witnesses who took the coerced reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance (in school) to the Supreme Court; they regard it as idolatrous, and it arguably actually is.
The other thing I learned was how the mystics in all religions, from the Sufis of Islam, to the contemplative monks of Christianity and Buddhism, have more in common with one another than they do with their nominal co-religionists. In general (tho not invariably) they’re some of the best people in their respective cultures and countries.
My understanding or religion is hardly superficial, I just decided to not spend another 3000 or so words explaining its origins, modern attitudes and adherence, reasons for offshoots and usurpings, etc. And I’m aware of Descartes and his ridiculous candle. Even the best philosophers can be blind if they are god-believers.
If you feel you cannot know what is ultimately real, I agree. But then again I’m not a solipsist or theist. Being aware on an inability to answer such existential questions is a far cry from being a theist or nihilist though.
Pretending humans are intrinsically good (such as some humanist thought seems to suggest) is as foolish as any dire actions religions have caused. Humans generally suck. That’s also a reason I also dislike chimps, our nearest brethren. They also regularly murder and rape and appear to take joy in depredations.
And I agree, empiricism and logic can’t even demonstrate, objectively, whether murdering another human for his/her goods, or just for fun, or raping them, is “good” or “bad”.
Ted Bundy, prior to his lies to try to escape the DP due to blaming porn etc., had an interesting comment about this.
But to end: there’s zero evidence humans are special, nor any that there’s any higher powers. Has nothing to do with number of senses or what we know about the Universe. Whatever we’ve gleaned has offered ZERO evidence of either of this.
I also realize I don’t know but I also don’t know if Bigfoot really exists or lizard nazis really exist in caverns under the Earth. Whether a god exists is about as worthy of thought as those also evidence-less and extraordinary claims.
I am sure the “animals” look at humans and say: “Look at these animals! See how they misbehave and are destroying things!”
No. Religion is never the “reason” for any conflict. However, religion is a very important “tool” in all conflicts. Religion helps to align people in ways that they would in their right minds otherwise question. The war rooms where battles are strategized are not temples and churches. Religion is left to the propagandists to recruit and motivate the troops.
That’s more like it! Satire that even I can recognize!
I am not into satire, but if that helps to dispel animosity I welcome your thought.
People on this sub must understand that the comments made by commenters such as Communete are dynamic mirror images of the posts currently being made on https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/, which, along with 4chan and Voat, is a virtual conveyor belt, factory, nearly direct-to-mind delivery system, and disseminator of the most toxic and intellectually offensive effluvia imaginable. The purpose of incessantly delivering such cretinisms both here and there is of course, and as Apple’s Tim Cook recently directly stated, to “kill…people’s minds,” in other words to subject people to intense psychological aggressions and perturbations, and more generally to render toxic the commentary ecosystems of serious forums such as this. Among their aims to afflict unwary people with Internet-effected forms of PTSD via the most incessant and toxic cretinization of otherwise honest and sincere dialogues and conversation.
While I believe there’s a great deal of truth to what you write, it';s also the case that some of these individuals are True Believers; Communete certainly seems to be. He’s been intermittently (with some bans inbetween appearances) afflicting Glenn Greenwald’s comment space for at least four years.
Either way, this post-fact cohort that’s also wed to sheer unreason is dangerous. Where truth and reality simply do not matter anything can and does happen — it’s the perfect petri dish for fascism.
That’s cute, considering that history’s most notorious fascist edited Italy’s premier Socialist newspaper of his day, “Avanti!” (“Forward!”).
Non sequitur.
Well, knowing next to nothing about 4chan and reddit, and never even having heard of Voat, it’s interesting, if disturbing, to be told that the conspiranoid nutjobs we see here as random, individual conspiranoid nutjobs are in some way parts of a larger whole.
Do you think the madness was induced by participation at the sites you mention, or merely exacerbated once the already-deranged found each other and interchanged pathologies?
If they have as a goal “afflict[ing] unwary people with Internet-effected forms of PTSD,” for what purpose do they seek to accomplish this? Just shits and grins?
Communete is an old-school paleo-conservative infected with ‘Alex Jones’ type of conspiracy-theory defenses against perceived threats to masculinity, U.S. sovereignty and Christianity. Where Jones is (misguidedly) passionate and occasionally amusing and sincere, however, Communete is humorless, cold and extremely bitter about everything perceived as left-wing.
Ignoring the fact that “cretinism” is a “condition of severely stunted physical and mental growth owing to untreated congenital deficiency of thyroid hormone”, I think that you might be onto something here. There are a number of theories to which I have been subjected to in this venue that are presented as undeniable fact: Let’s revisit a few for clarity sake:
1. There is no such thing as a conspiracy except those which have been proven and rubber stamped by Chomsky and/or Mona.
2. Osama bin Laden was solely responsible for the attacks of 911. In complete absence of a crime scene investigation, these attacks were laid at the feet of a salafist-jihadist who was American trained and Saudi funded for decades. Yet, inexplicably, he has never been indicted for the attacks.
3. Everything that the US intelligence community reports is either an exaggeration or an outright lie except for that which can be used to construct a potentially effective, countervailing narrative to US foreign policy.
4. Three high-rise, steel frame buildings collapsed at near free-fall speed in a single day due to “office fires that burned out of control.” But wait, the temperature generated from office fires simply does not have the capacity to weaken structural steel – especially when it is coated with fire retardants. Oh well… if long term, government funded corporations says that it is true then science must take a back seat.
5. The North Vietnamese attacked an American ship in the Gulf of Tonkin which, in turn, necessitated an escalation of hostilities. Oh sorry, that one has been debunked and rubber stamped by Chomsky (my bad).
6. White civilization is responsible for all of the evils in the world.
7. There is no evidence that people are being surreptitiously “chipped” with subcutaneous RFID tracking devices as part of a larger campaign of electronic harassment; yet states are passing laws to prohibit exactly that. Neither is there any evidence that such technology is intend to be deployed in mass as a precursor to a cashless society.
8. There is no evidence (empirical or otherwise) that microwave radiation causes cancer. Therefore cell phones and cellphone towers and other microwave generating devices should be deemed as no threat to ones own health, or to the generations that follow.
9. The US founding fathers were all racists. The US constitution was solely written by white, christian racists. Racism in the US is systemic in nature. The US constitution was not written in a way that would eventually lead to the abolition of slavery. No progress toward racial equality has been made within American society since the ratification of the constitution. White Christians were not responsible for the creation of the abolitionist movement. White christian sensibilities did not inform the opinions of those who endeavored to abolish all forms of discrimination within American society. Black Lives Matters is not a Soros-funded, race separatist organization whose ideas and aims are are fueled by white hatred.
10. Bernie Sanders is not a tool of the DNC in particular and a corporately managed shill of the duopoly in general.
11. Mankind is on the cusp of extinction due to anthropogenic global warming. Well, yes that is a debate killer. But hey, if consensus opinion deems it to be true, then there is no need for dissenting opinion. But wait, didn’t consensu opinion hold the the sun revolved around the earth at one time…?
12. Forced migration is not an intended outcome of regime change and established protocols of pacification.
13. There is no secret plan to create a global government and/or one all-encompassing economic system.
14. JP Morgan was solely responsible for undermining the growth of the electric car industry in America; instead, he promoted the fossil fuel industry in service to his own economic interests at the time. (My bad, that too has been rubber stamped by Chomsky)
15. The Council on foreign Relations is the mean by which the Corporate community imposes its will on the creation and implementation of US foreign policy. But wait, weren’t the Birchers ridiculed and marginalized for claiming exactly that? Well if Chomsky now says that it is so…
16. Leading elements from within the corporate establishment (e.g, Chamber of Commerce) have conspired to undermine the growth and evolution of organized labor with in the US for more that six decades (and, by extension, the middle class itself). Although 99% of Americans have never heard of this conspiracy, Chomsky insists that it was conceived and implemented in a way that was easy for all to see. There are none so blind…
17. It is impossible for the government and/or the dark state to keep a secret. Errr wait, remind me again: What is the dark state?
18. Those who do not reflexively accept as fact the findings of all government funded commissions (e.g. Warren, 911, Whitewater, Pearl Harbor, Church etc., etc., etc.) or share the consensus opinion as expressed by Intercept writers and/or the self appointed gate keepers (in all of their guises) are either tin foil hat conspiracy nuts or cretins…
No, I was using the term figuratively, that is the purpose of figurative speech. As for the rest of your text, it strikes me as obfuscatory.
Obfusacatory? Yes, I could see where the truth would confound someone who make whole cloth condemnations of “conspiracy theories” as if a single one never existed.
total nonsense.
here is some more fake stuff from the neocons at the nyt
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/02/10/fake-news-huffpo-invents-steve-bannon-war-pope-francis/
Here is the real deal
President Donald Trump is sick of America being trashed out by elected lawyers who feed like tics on the blood of mainstreet. The elected lawyers are all PO’d at having to take orders from a non-ABA guy, they really hate it. They condemn him for his lack of legal expertise and continuously berate him for not having lawyerly credentials.
JESUS HAD THE SAME PROBLEM.
All those words to describe the symptom, when only a few will describe the disease. Two of the three Abrahamic religions have the same demands on adherents, they must convert others. Those simple words define the virus that infects our world more and more, amplified by beliefs in non-existent supernatural beings that are manipulated for never ending quest for power. Humans like Bannon and his equivalents lie hate murder and war to expand the quest, to be pursued until love and peace, the basis of these religions are epically destroyed, and this world descends again into dark ages. The cure is available, to begin to understand that the power sought is a tool of not gods but of another non-existent supernatural being Satan in the form of humans, and those who use it for their own ends are truly evil. Our leaders are too easily manipulated by these gods, the only way to free our society of this scourge is for all of us to free ourselves of religion’s influence. We don’t need to be propagandized to learn to have concern for each other, we don’t need to have non-existent supernatural beings forced down our throats to show we can work together to achieve the heights we are capable of.
’cause humans never engage in mass murder for ideologies outside of religion?
“Two of the three Abrahamic religions have the same demands on adherents, they must convert others.”
there is a rarely known reason for that:
mathematics of population growth;
in most simple terms population growth (of a sexually reproducing species)
is described by a set of coupled differential equations ;
these equations will lead to either growth of the population or the decline and eventual extinguishing of the population,
these equations / modesl give a critical number to the population , if this number is undershot, the population will die ;
different groups , e.g. relgious groups, without actually knowing about the underlying dynamics struggle to keep their numbers above that limit.
If you want to know more or have doubts , look it up under (sorry for that reference, no offence mean ) “pest control” or “endagered species “.
“Two of the three Abrahamic religions have the same demands on adherents, they must convert others”
====
We don’t try to convert anyone. We have non Muslims in our Sufi group. There are many, many other Muslims who don’t try to convert anyone either.
So I guess we didn’t get the memo, and are bad Muslims.
Ditto for any number of Christian denominations or sects. In fact, I laugh at the thought of some staid and conventional Congregationalist having a fire for converting anyone.
Yes, I understand and agree, but for those who seek power this is magic, all they have to do is sell a non-existent supernatural being and lay their own demands on those beings, just as we see in the christian supremacists and ISIS. The demand is real, it’s always there, ready to be used by the next fanatic, like Bannon. There is nothing humans can’t accomplish without gods, gods do nothing for humanity, there is absolutely no proof any of the many thousands exist, nor will there ever be.
This is 100% true, religion makes crazed demands on adherents and atheists never do. Stalin was a gentleman as was Polpot. They are proof that the only humanitarian option is an atheist one and the only crazed fanatics are the religious ones. There is something about religion that makes people lose reason. In Orwell’s ‘Homage to Catalonia’, not once did the anarchists ever bicker amongst themselves or split into factions and fight one another. Mother Teresa and the Dalai Lama personally attempted to beat me into conversion many times. I won’t even get into those crazed Moslems at the local falafel stand ready to shove my head into their deep fryer if I don’t convert. Ahh, how I long for a nice atheist kingdom like North Korea.
Too Close for Comfort –How much do the early days of the Trump administration look like the Third Reich? Historian Richard Evans weighs in.
I don’t share all of Evans’ conclusions, but he’s worth considering.
Isn’t that normally reserved for Israel, Mona? However, this is what the alt left supported in lieu of HRC – a kinder, more “realist” foreign policy that caves to the desires of Russia.
Readers: About 95% of the time I do not reply to Craig Summers, who is an authoritarian, pro-torture, Zionist Republican who said he was a Trump-voter. Multiple commenters asked that I not reply to Craig because doing so causes him to post yet more walls of drivel-text, which pollutes the board.
Only a narcissist would think anyone cares. Moreover you’ve written the same paragraph over three dozen times in the past year.
And will write it again most times that individual replies to me. He knows this, and can avoid seeing it again by simply not replying to my comments.
I look forward to your running and hiding. You have responded enough for me to conclude that you are hiding when you don’t respond. For example:
Do you have any statistics on the percentage of Zionists in the US that hate Arabs, Mona?
Of course you don’t…….
Reply.
A light reading of Volker Ullrich’s book, Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939, is recommended.
I do lightly ridicule TrumpaLumps by calling their “Dear Leader” AhmadiTrump, but in all seriousness, as characterized by the Guardian, these are dangerous people:
“As the author notes, his dismantling of the fragile democratic norms should have come as no surprise. Hitler had always been frank about his intentions. His coalition partners either thought he wasn’t serious, or they could control him.”
Yes. My greatest fear regarding Trump is that he and his administration will decide not to obey court orders. The two segments of the citizenry with government guns — law enforcement and the military — preponderantly support him. So, would they obey him or would they obey the courts?
I don’t know, and dread seeing it tested.
The compulsive threadjacker Mona in the lead–again–lapping the rest of the field with 27% of this thread’s posting volume. Not her record though.
Yup, I’ve hijacked the thread by, inter alia, showing you literally make shit up about world history. You do not even know when either the Crusades or the Ottoman Empire began and simply fabricate garbage.
You can expect I’ll continue with similar debunking.
CNN is by definition fake news. Here’s a vignette from its reporting from the Iraq Gulf War, 1990:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LK9a8AT2b8&t=7m0s
This is high comedy.
Conspiranoid nonsense. More conspiranoid nonsense. Endless fucking conspiranoid nonsense.
https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-cnns-fake-news-broadcasts-charles-jaco-and-the-fake-live-gulf-war-reports.t1140/
The footage is right there in front of you, Doug. Any reader can see and listen to the correspondents.
Don’t try to disclaim it by dragging someone’s straw man interpretation of the footage into what is clearly comedy.
Are you trying to ‘debunk’ this as CNN-originated footage? Because it is CNN reporting.
Yes. CNN reporting from the Dharhan International Hotel, where the Saudis and US authorities sequestered the media.
That’s exactly what it is.
As you know, I’ve long objected to the deranged litter of crapflooding this one promiscuously commits here (and which has gotten him banned more than once). But at this particular moment it’s useful to have him slinging it around so people like us can show what the typical Trump acolyte is.
He hasn’t yet fully held forth on his claim that “they” killed Scalia, and why it was they wished to have him replaced by a Jew on the High Court — or even why that would even be anyone’s goal. Should he do so I’d certainly bookmark it for future use as an illustration of the Trump “thinker.”
Why, it’s obvious. There are currently five Catholics and only three Jews on the Court. How are they gonna complete their takeover of our once-great nation with only a minority at the highest level of our judiciary?
Doug Damn It All To Hell Salzmann,
It’s because Mona is willfully misrepresenting the comment. The post asserted that Scalia was assassinated in part to cover for the potential impending loss for the Democrats of the upcoming election. If Hillary lost, at least the high court would have a leftist-sympathizing composition. It allowed them time for a giggling Obama to show up not 24 hours later with yet another Jewish liberal, stacking the court with even more of them.
You know that Mona regularly misrepresents comments to Intercept readers.
I see. And who exactly assassinated Scalia (was it not the Illuminati you have other times fingered?), how, and why did you specify it would have to be a Jew that replaced him?
37 posts out of 135, 27% of the posting volume on this thread alone, is Mona.
Par for the progressive left, Mona points fingers at anybody and anything other than herself. She treats Glenn’s space like her personal Facebook.
please bring back gert, and GMO-gert for that matter
definitely a more involved technical process than just posting junk here .. looks like that old “video toaster” stuff people used to do about 20 years ago
none of this stupidity is nearly as good as salon used to be … the past really is dead
although kudos to mona for trying to maintain a serious discussion via her sock puppets
I don’t use multiple accounts. Glenn Greenwald, who has administrative access to ISP addresses and can tell where in the world accounts are posting from, has stated that explicitly.
if this place had avatars and sidebar text chat we could all re-live those fun glory days of web release 2.0
to get some net-hygge during difficult times … it is not to be i guess
We tried to do avatars here early on — I had one. But to make them appear entailed having one’s account here linked to another site that hosted the avatar, which caused all kinds of issues.
My avatar was the best avatar. It was so great!
Mr. Hussain
Bannon is fast becoming the new Dick Cheney of the Trump administration – the new Darth Vader – far too early in this administration in my opinion.
“………Steve Bannon — have publicly espoused apocalyptic theories of history that center on a forthcoming clash between Western countries and the Muslim world, a conflict that many of them seem to perceive as both inevitable and desirable…….”
Respected academics like Samuel Huntington have also proposed similar theories so it is not really out of the mainstream of political thought. However, it’s not apocalyptic – just a phase in the ever shrinking, irreversibly globalized world. Islamic fundamentalism (like Christian fundamentalism) is a global anti-globalization movement centered in the greater Middle East. It’s more of a clash of cultures and values between the west and the Muslim world – with violent extremist making up a small percentage of the Muslim fundamentalists. The Charlie Hebdo massacre (al-Qaeda) is a good example of the clash of cultures. Al-Qaeda is no different than ISIS – using anti-western propaganda to promote a jihadists war against the west to fulfill the anti-democratic reestablishment of the Caliphate.
Millions of Muslims have relocated to Europe principally from the greater Middle East (including North Africa). The pace of immigration has exceeded the pace of assimilation and some immigrants have rejected European values while living in poor, (essentially) segregated Muslim enclaves. Far right anti-immigrant political parties in Europe have thrived on the increased terrorism in Europe and elsewhere – and the 5000(+) Muslims who have left Europe to join ISIS. The left in Europe promoted the wholesale increase in Muslim immigrants/refugees with good intentions, but the fallout was predictable. Germany represents the best example of a leftist leadership ignoring concerns by the people in Germany who have banded together with the far right for political clout. Bannon and Trump draw their support from these same people in the US. They are as much a function of the government ignoring their concerns as racism.
Authoritarian rulers in the Middle East share in the blame for the violence associated with jihadists. Political Islam has been marginalized violently at times for the past century which pushed some Islamists to violence during the Arab Spring – like Libya and Syria. Al-Sissi violently overthrew the elected Morsi government murdering hundreds of protesting Islamists supporters. The Muslim Brotherhood is now designated a terrorist organization in Egypt. Over half of the population in Egypt voted for the MB candidate. As long as the political powers in the Middle East marginalize their populations, this will increase the violence as well as the membership of jihadists organizations like ISIS and al-Qaeda. The Muslim Brotherhood is a fundamentalist Islamic organization, but proved (in Egypt at least) that it was willing to work within the democratic process.
The Trump policy of smashing ISIS (and al-Qaeda) is a good idea. ISIS is not interested in becoming a part of the political process. They do not serve the promotion of democracy in the Middle East. They are a self-serving, violent, anti-democratic, racist organization.
Bannon is already much worse than Cheney, moving very quickly as the Trump whisperer to justify an eventual Holy War. Cheney was a neocon without the Armageddon obsession, oil and corporate power his bottom line. Yes, ISIS and al Qaeda, should be destroyed, and you provide a fairly accurate summary of why, through decades of marginalization, (and I would add Western, and Russian hegonomy), they grew. Bannon wants to destroy not just ISIS and AQ, but the entire Muslim religion. He disavows that there are inherent “Judeo-Christian” values within the 3rd branch of monotheism, Islam. Just like ISIS, Bannon wants a Christian caliphate, and Trump, with no historical perspective, no intellectual integrity or insight, will go along, as the great disrupter and “provacateur” he proudly proclaims as his greatest deal-making skill. All we have to do is trust him, and it will all be fixed. Bannon must be stopped.
Thanks for your reply. I guess we will have to watch how the policies of Trump shake out with regard to the Middle East and Muslims. If Bannon is a great influence on Trump and he believes as you say, that will also come out in time.
Thanks.
All dissent is now called paid protesters, violence or fake news. We desperately need to move Dems out of the way. They’re a phony opposition, incapable of organizing to counter childish propaganda that seems to work. For instance, there are people who actually believe 3-5 million illegals voted. This is how dumb Americans can be. I’m trying to understand why anyone would believe that lie. It’s infuriating that politicians feel confident enough to repeat it.
Agreed. As much as I already held contempt for Democrats before this last election, watching them become divorced from fact and reason over Russia was a new level of disturbing.
The infowars crowd love Trump and Bannon. The antidote to that must heavily include reason and devotion to facts. A Democratic Party gone as removed from reason and fact as they’ve become (albeit with different motives) cannot help counter Trumpian madness.
The Dems have been eager to blame everyone but themselves for The Orange One’s election. And Trump’s kowtowing to the alt-right is disturbing if unsurprising.
Jokers to the left, clowns to the right. Reason and facts are much needed; the Intercept is a welcome supplier.
It’s all over:
_”Illegal Voting Gets Texas Woman 8 Years in Prison, and Certain Deportation“_ –New York Times, February 10, 2017
_”Illegal Immigrants Found on Voter Rolls Before Crucial NC Senate Vote“_ -FOX News, Oct. 24, 2014
_”Feds should worry less about Russia, more about illegal voters“_
“”I’ve worked in six locations across the United States. I’ve probably arrested more than a thousand illegal aliens in my career, and I routinely encounter people in possession of voter registration cards,” Immigration and Customs Special Agent Claude Arnold said in a recent interview on Fox News. Just imagine if we applied Arnold’s sample of illegal immigrant voters to our entire illegal immigrant population in the US of 12 to 22 million.
“J. Christian Adams, president of the Public Interest Legal Foundation, recently unearthed more than 1,000 alien voters in eight counties in the swing state of Virginia. These illegal voters were discovered almost by accident and represent a much larger problem according to Adams.” -The Hill, Dec. 30, 2016
In California, all bets are off:
_”Experts: California voter registration system ‘highly susceptible’ to fraud“_ -FOX News, February 1, 2017
From your NYT link:
The notion that 3-5 million foreign nationals are voting in U.S. elections is literally preposterous. Of all the issues to be concerned about, that is not on any reasonable person’s list.
Those are just the ones your beloved, hard-leftist NYT admits to.
You think the Illuminati plotted to murder Antonin Scalia to place a Jew on the Supreme Court, so of course it’s also your absurd belief that the NYT is “hard-leftist.”
Only delusional infowars devotees such as you find it believable that 3-5 million foreign nationals are voting in U.S. elections.
You’ve taken leave of your senses if you argue that the gun-control whining, anthropogenic Climate Change squealing, Equality chanting, tranny pushing, public employee union promoting, immigration reform promoting, Obamacare preserving, NYT is not hard-leftist.
I think I’ll just let that sit there. You discredit yourself and Trump just by spitting out what you do.
it’s obvious that danish hygge and The Perfect Swaddle are having no effect whatsoever here
which is a real tragedy
even drone ops and the bomb-vesters themselves might enjoy some smoked herring right from the can
or a cozy evening spend huddled up next to an electric wall heater, staring cross-eyed at the laptop screen
when Peace: The Box Set hits the big screen America must be ready to turn away from televised professional sports and CNN … because it’s time to purchase Ugg boots, flavored condoms, and krugerrands
CNN cuts off Bernie Sanders after he implies to Erin Burnett that her channel is fake news:
““Well I don’t know. Maybe he [Trump] was watching CNN fake news,” Bernie jests attempting to mock Trump, before asking, “What do you think?”
““It was a joke!” the senator explains to a somewhat bewildered Burnett, but it was too late – the senator was cut off and he stopped receiving audio to his earpiece.”
http://www.infowars.com/awkward-cnn-cuts-off-bernie-sanders-after-he-calls-them-fake-news/
How’s about we do some basic math for Mr. Bannon:
Bangladesh–145,607,000
Egypt–73,800,000
India–172,000,000
Indonesia–204,847,000
Iran–74,819,000
Nigeria–93,839,000
Pakistan–178,000,000
Just those 7 countries alone–roughly 1 billion Muslims. There’s an additional 700 million spread out all over the globe. You think the 2.2 billion “Christians” in the world are interested in ponying up their lives and money to go to war with Islam all over the globe?
America hasn’t fought a multi-front war by itself ever. Iraq and Afghanistan have roughly 60 million Muslim residents between the two of them. America had all it could handle in both, and neither Iraq or Afghanistan had a viable military. They fought us with improvised devises and small arms.
Purportedly the most expensive most technologically advanced military in the history of the world, America’s, a nation of 300 million people, and it couldn’t defeat two nations fighting them with improvised devices and small arms.
Only way America starts or engages in a war against Muslims, is through use of nuclear weapons, and then everyone on the globe glows, is dead or within a couple of short years from radiation poisoning or starves from nuclear winter.
Steve Bannon is delusional and I will fight against him if he attempts to incite a religious war in this world.
You are perfectly right Rev. Heard that most of the Radical Islamist Jihadi people are in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. For many years they have been living quite comfortably because they have nukes. Maybe then we should give nukes to Iran, Iraq and Saudis and they will also start living peacefully. The secret of peace is nukes, as you have proved with fake numbers. Look at North Korea. Despite their mad, belligerent alpha-male no one messes with them.
As usual for you, your reply to rr heard is non-responsive.
Non-responsive and nonsensical.
Yes. From whence did 15 of the 19 hijackers of 9/11 hail? These Trumpers very much do not like to talk about that. (Any more than Bushbots and Obama worshipers before them have cared to.)
Good that you also find Rev Heard’s numbers fake, though I guess to a greater order of magnitude than I do. Why don’t you tell Father Heard so that he hears is loud and clear?
The other day your tag-team partner Salzmann was caught maligning our men and women in uniform, and I requested him to apologize. Could you please do me the honor to convey this request again to him? He may not agree with President Trump, but his privilege to disagree is derived from the sweat and blood of those who protect him.
The US military has not been engaged in protecting the nation’s citizens since, at the very least, WWII.
Many servicemenbers, of course, have believed and still do believe that’s what they are doing, but it’s a big lie.
The only men and women in uniform I ever malign are the comparative few that wear those uniforms as an excuse for indulging their blood lust.
Talking to the wrong guy. I’ve always been 100% consistent on the subject of nuclear weapons–either no nation should have them, or all nations should have them. Period.
What fake numbers are you babbling about? Those are the rough population estimates as of the last two years for all of those nations widely available by a simple Google search.
To be precise, America has 318 million people give or take. So what are you babbling about?
Notice that all the last three digits are 000. This cannot be right. Even granted that you are somewhere near the ballpark, you are at least, by any stretch of census polling, thousands of people off. So your numbers are inherently fake, and thus you have lost credibility to trust the rest of the higher order digits. Euclid could have proved it with greater elegance but would have reached the same conclusion.
Well with the exception of the American Civil War of course, but not my point–which was a multi-front war against people from multiple nations all by itself.
“the rapture” does not require that anyone survives
Fair enough. But since I’m an atheist I’d hope the “Xtian believers” don’t take me with them, out of sheer delusional stupidity and irrational animus and paranoia.
I’ll give you odds that if his Muslim ban succeeds or is rewritten, those countries you listed will most likely be next in line.
the ban could be extended to include everybody, which would be constitutional …
then the people trump wants in could be naturalized by executive fiat
there would be no need for unconstitutional religious bias in the visa process, trump needs only invoke the divine right of kings
he could set up trump tower as the new ellis island .. it’s a brilliant plan where room service could deliver the social security cards
Next in line for what? Iran is already on the list.
If you think Trump is going to ban people from Pakistan, Egypt, India, Bangladesh, or Indonesia I want some of what you’re smoking.
And the chances of him banning citizens of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, and Oman is zero.
Again, I agree his ban shouldn’t be called a Muslim ban, because in a strict sense it isn’t with regard to all the nations of the world wherein Muslims reside.
With the exception of Iran, it should be called “Trump’s Ban on Muslims From Countries the US Bombs to Destroy or Control And/Or In Service Of One of America’s BFF Gulf Monarchies and Israel’s National Interest.”
It quite obviously isn’t a ban on the world’s Muslim populations, just the ones that might be pissed off because we’ve facilitated directly or indirectly the destruction of their lands and people (again excluding Iran). And with regard to the latter, quite frankly I could understand why they might hold some deep seated animus toward America. But thankfully, and Allah knows why, but the vast majority don’t, which as Americans we should be incredibly grateful for their capacity to forgive even the most unforgivable acts by the American and their allies.
And don’t think some in the US government wouldn’t like to take a crack at Iran, but that would likely spell the end of America as we know it (not saying that would be bad, except for all the regular folks in American and Iran).
Seems there are some disciples of Alex Jones around here. Scary thought.
You know it. Richard Stallman dropped by the Intercept threads the other day. Someone by that name, the founder of GNU, has been a radio guest of Alex Jones at least twice.
Stallman (RMS) is hardly a disciple of Jones. He’s entirely consumed by free software issues and projects (for which the world owes him an enormous debt of gratitude!) and there’s hardly anywhere he won’t go or anyone to whom he won’t speak in promoting his views.
RMS is a visionary and a hero — and rather quirky, of course.
Stallman has nothing compared to your telephony, Doug Damn It All To Hell Salzmann.
You warned anyone who would listen, DDIATHS. You warned them, about what the opportunists of the world would do to your telephony. But no, they wouldn’t listen. And look what they did. Damn it to hell.
Yes, there are. In this instance, it is useful and instructive to have Trumpers like Communete around; his manifest delusions and complete lack of facility with the facts of history, reveal the mindset and profile of the typical, ardent Trump supporter.
What utter propaganda by Hussain. He very well knows that Obama armed Al Nusra and ISIS for the purpose of regime change in Syria. Obama opened the infamous ‘rat line’ to transfer weapons from one state he destroyed, Libya, to the state he was planning to destroy, Syria. This article is nothing less than anti-history — it erases the material support of ISIS by our previous president and plunges into abstraction to magically link Trump to ISIS.
Let us consider the words of congresswoman Gabbard:
Aloha ,
The lives of millions of Syrians have been destroyed by a horrific war that has killed hundreds of thousands and forced millions to flee their homeland. I went there last week to see and hear directly from the Syrian people.
I met with displaced families from Eastern Aleppo, Raqqah, Zabadani, Latakia and the outskirts of Damascus. I heard from Syrian opposition leaders who commanded the 2011 protests, widows and children of men fighting both for and against the government. I listened to Muslim and Christian leaders, humanitarian workers, academics, college students, small business owners and many more.
Their message was clear: The regime change war the U.S. is fueling in Syria does not serve America’s interest, or the interest of the Syrian people. Time and again I was asked, “Why is the United States and its allies helping al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups take over Syria? Syria did not attack the United States. Al-Qaeda did.” I had no answer.
These are the frustrated voices that have not been heard. Instead, we’ve heard incomplete, one-sided reports that push a narrative supporting this regime change war at the expense of Syrian lives.
I met a 14-year-old Muslim girl from Zabadani who was kidnapped, beaten repeatedly and raped. She watched in horror as “rebel groups” murdered her father in her family’s living room, emptying their entire magazine of bullets into him because her father, a sheep herder, would not give them his money.
I met a boy who was kidnapped while walking down the street to buy bread for his family. He was tortured, waterboarded, electrocuted, placed on a cross and whipped because he refused to help so-called rebels — he told them he just wanted to go to school. This is how the “rebels” treat the Syrian people who do not cooperate with them, or whose religion is not acceptable to them.
Repeatedly I was told there is no difference between “moderate” rebels and al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same. Although opposed to the Assad government, the political opposition leaders adamantly rejected violence as a way to bring about reforms. They shared that it’s the Wahhabi jihadists, fueled by foreign governments, that pose the greatest threat to Syria and its history as a secular, pluralist, once-peaceful society. They continue to seek government reforms, but support the Syrian state over jihadist terrorist groups as they work to bring peace to Syria.
The consequences of this regime change war extend beyond the boundaries of Syria. As we spend trillions of dollars on regime change in the Middle East, Hawai’i, along with communities across the country, faces a severe lack of affordable housing, aging infrastructure, the need to invest in education, health care, and so much more. Our limited resources should go toward rebuilding our communities here at home, not fueling more counterproductive regime change wars abroad.
For years, the U.S. government has been directly and indirectly supporting allies and partners of terrorist groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS with money, weapons, and intelligence in their fight to overthrow the Syrian government.
I return to D.C. this week with even greater resolve to end this illegal and counterproductive war. From Iraq to Libya and now in Syria, the U.S. has waged wars of regime change, each resulting in unimaginable suffering, devastating loss of life, and the strengthening of groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS.
We must allow the Syrian people to try to recover from this terrible war by ending our support for the terrorists destroying Syria and her people. My Stop Arming Terrorist Act would do just that.
really? i can’t find any basis for that in the text…
The greatest lie is the lie of omission.
– George Orwell
got it. that covers an awful lot of territory, don’t you think? if we’re going to cover the history of events having led up to and influenced the Great War of Civilizations, hadn’t you quickly submit a more thorough account lest you yourself partake of this greatest of lies?
let us know when you get to 2017.
drat.
-hadn’t you *better* quickly sumbit ….
I have arrived in 2017. We have jihadist armies terrorizing large swaths of Iraq and Syria, thanks to Obama’s desire for regime change in Syria and his arming of Al Nusra and ISIS through the rat-line.
so . . . you and Bannon don’t want a holy war?
He’s some kind of troll who frequently drops in early in a thread to spew one or two wild-eyed rants, and then leaves. I’ve learned to ignore him.
I guess for Mona a rant is prose that contains facts she doesn’t like … like Obama’s famous rat-line into Syria:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line
It must get at Mona that her liberal president Obama supported Jihadists that would kill or enslave her in a heartbeat … just because she is a woman.
As I said, you’re some kind of troll. No one familiar with my commenting history, or the writers of this site, would suppose I’m either an Obama fan or a liberal.
For Mona a troll is someone who dares to point out that Obama funded jihadists through the rat-line. Her ‘infowars’ mantra fails her in this case, since Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh uncovered the rat line for in a piece of the London Review of Books.
Liberals like Mona remind me of Sleeping Beauty. When a Democrat is president, they fall into a deep sleep, blissfully unaware of the President’s material actions. Yet once their anti-prince Trump bends down and kisses them on the lips, they awake … and suddenly are aware of all the corruption and criminal activity within the American Empire.
It fails her in another way: Seymour Hersh has been a radio guest of Alex ‘infowars’ Jones.
“There has been sustained criticism of Hersh’s use of anonymous sources. Critics, including Edward Jay Epstein and Amir Taheri, say he is over-reliant on them.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh
You do understand, I hope, that both Epstein and Taheri lack all standing to criticize anyone else’s journalism — especially on the basis of proper sources or reliability? Invoking those two to criticize Hersh (who is a fine investigative reporter) would be like quoting Ted Bundy on the subject of domestic violence.
“He’s some kind of troll who frequently drops in early in a thread to spew one or two wild-eyed rants, and then leaves. I’ve learned to ignore him.”
You tell people you are no longer talking to them through a third party.
That’s odd.
Uh-huh, ok. [shrug]
Mona is a liberal troll. She seeks to obfuscate the obvious … such as Obama’s arming of Nazi’s in the Ukraine, Jihadists in Syria, or his amazing Tom Brady-like deportation of three million people, a record breaker!
That’s fucking hilarious. Yeah, I’m the biggest shill for Obama in history. You just keep right on with that. No one remotely familiar with what I actually write is going to think you are anything by a deranged freak. (What’s next? Am I also a devout evangelical?)
Bannon, that whiskery bum, believes himself to be the last Crusader left standing:
“We’re now, I believe, at the beginning stages of a global war against Islamic fascism.”
and…
“We’re at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict, of which if the people in this room, the people in the church, do not bind together and really form what I feel is an aspect of the church militant, to really be able to not just stand with our beliefs, but to fight for our beliefs against this new barbarity that’s starting, that will completely eradicate everything that we’ve been bequeathed over the last 2,000, 2,500 years.” [@Dignitatis Humanae Institute, Vatican 2014. ]
meanwhile:
Burston/Haaretz: “Not only does it [the Vatican speech] predict the imminence and inevitability of a war pitting Christianity against Islam, it obliquely suggests that Jews could find themselves a target for U.S. Christian anger somewhere down the road.”
Interesting, bizarre, lines being drawn:
Bannon’s connections to the religious right are solid, largely through his connection with Cardinal Burke and the discredited Legion of Christ (via Thomas Williams, ex-US-spokesman of the Legion and current head of Breitbart in Rome.)
Burke, who is leader of the anti-Bergoglio contingent at the Vatican (having been twice demoted by the Pope) has made common cause with Matteo Savini’s la Lega nord, among others, and looks to be angling for a leadership position in Europe’s far right. Which, btw, is loving Trump and Bannon but no longer has any use for Francis after his soft-headed remarks on refugees and nationalism.
Great stuff: governance by apocalypse; a messianic return for every taste.
Thank you. That’s an informative comment.
The elephant in the room, of course, is that neither group of right-wing extremists wants to stop the coming apocalypse. There’s no real logic or reasoning involved, not even the logic of revenge.
The humankind is essentially divided into groups on the basis of the qualities their inner self (individual and collective) reflects on a wide range of spectrum, ranging from the lowest to the highest (by definition), while they manifest in diverse outer forms.
Since I have listed those qualities often, I won’t repeat them here.
—-
“Cosmology of the Self” and “The Journey of the Self” at http://www.zahrapublications.com/#sufismAndIslamicPsychologyAndPhilosophy
“Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord”.
Robert Siegel and Ari Shapiro and Nina Totenberg and Mara Liasson and the Klezmer woodwind stylings of All Things Considered appreciate all your financial support.
Do you agree with Bannon about the need to revive “the church militant” because:
Well?
Why don’t you expand the quote into a context that may fill the ellipses and otherwise coincidentally attenuate your argument.
I recognize individual liberty reinforced by strong national boundaries under which it’s practiced as infinitesimal, short-lived experiments on the human timeline that must constantly be defended against insidious progressive leftist attempts at authoritarianism and world government and intentional smudging of international borders through globalism.
That’s non-responsive. Do you agree with Bannon about the “need” to revive the “church militant” because:
As we think about ISIS-Bannon commonalities, It may be instructive (and chilling) to consider that, like the followers of al-Baghdadi, rather significant portions of the American public would be content with rule by their own caliph.
I an piece in today’s Graun, Prof. Austin Sarat considers the fact that. . .
N.B. The latter findings are consistent with my personal experience of millennials. I get really tired of hearing how refreshingly progressive they are.
[. . .]
Oops. That should be “In a,” not “I an.” And I failed to excise the internal links (which don’t show up as links). Ignore.
me too me too, those millennials are the worst
just now amazon has delivered Peace: The Box Set to my door, and after speed-viewing it i’m amazed at how the western canon of democracy since the Age of Enlightenment has been completely ignored!!
all this “peace” and “love” crap, no rational underpinnings of legal rhetoric, no context wrt the civil rights or women’s movements …
it’s just some sort of mental blow job .. these kids should go back to university and take American Jurisprudence 101: Kafka to Breitbart and get some intellectual grounding
That gets to my strongest and greatest concern about Trump and his administration. His brazen attacks on the judiciary could be indicative of his (sooner rather than later) rejecting court orders and refusing to be bound by them.
If that happens it would constitute the complete collapse of the rule of law, which in turn would mean an actual dictatorship.
If that happens it would constitute the complete collapse of the rule of law, which in turn would mean an actual dictatorship.
Indeed, and the study cited by Prof. Sarat suggests that there might not be overwhelming resistance to that dictatorship.
If you close your eyes and listen carefully, I’ll bet you can hear Bannon and his troops chuckling contentedly over these poll results.
i dunno, i don’t have any numbers to point at, but if Bannon and the lads were to come right out, donning their papist hats, brown shirts and holy roller skates . . . i just don’t think that shit would fly.
consider the outright racists, white nationalists and Granpa Simsonesque cold warriors that regularly post right here. after running through their half-baked racist diatribes, declaring the *need* for the poor maligned white race to finally stand up and kick out them jews/muslims/blacks/blah/blah/blah . . . they will invariably exclaim that they aren’t racists and it’s just not fair to call out their bigotry as such, etc.
even these neo-nazis can’t stand to see themselves as such in the light of day. the whole millennial thing gets tossed around pretty casually, but i just don’t see a generation of young Americans who are ready to toe that line.
Well, according to the cited research, 19% of them aren’t ready to toe that line. ;^(
Of course, polling can be wrong, but that poll would have to be wildly wrong to change the overall implications.
i would have thought we’d had enough of polls for a while. ;-)
There’s Trump’s rap, then there’s Trump. Having spent 4 years in the USMC I can tell you that initiating any large scale deployment isn’t going to happen soon. I’m far more concerned with actions that will (not may) be taken domestically. I think the ban was just a trial balloon.
Do you think he’d order U.S. military into the cities, such as Chicago and elsewhere? What’s your take on how much support he has in the armed forces?
http://thesnugbug.com/true-french-muslin-swaddle-single/
Denmark’s Hygge Aesthetic Is Comfy, Cozy, and Complicit With the Rise of Xenophobic Populism
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/01/10/danish_hygge_is_cozy_and_also_tied_to_right_nationalist_xenophobic_populism.html
Hm. Xenophobia, Democrats, “Russians are the enemy,”….
Whataboutery is a fallacy.
No whataboutery. The conservative leadership doesn’t view any of these nations as the enemy. It’s just not going to let just every one of its residents in.
By contrast the left wages wars against those nations in the name of progress.
Yes, you are doing whataboutery. That the Democrats have gone unhinged over Russia (in order to avoid their own rottedness) is wholly irrelevant to nationalist righwing xenophobia, including Trump and Bannon’s.
there definitely is a clash of civilizations right now
daesh vs the new crusaders
modern musins and western “universe-ists” envision a happy rainbow future together, but the bomb vesters and drone operators keep spoiling the fun
hopefully we can all purchase Peace: The Box Set at amazon and everything will just work out by itself
Ya know, the fact that you ordered this from Amazon doesn’t necessarily speak well of your intentions…
I don’t think I wanna pay Bannon’s mother fucking allowance anymore. What’re my options?
I’d suggest looking for peaceful and relatively inexpensive migration destinations.
The easy way out? … I’ll pass.
As Stephen Lendman said on his blog “you just could not make this stuff up….”On February 10 in Riyadh, CIA director Mike Pompeo awarded the Middle East’s leading Arab state proliferator of state terrorism at home and abroad with the George Tenet Medal for its “intelligence work in the fight against terrorism.”
Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Nayef, serving as deputy prime minister and minister of interior received the George Tenet Medal. Other Saudi princes and officials attended the ceremony.
In accepting the award, prince Nayef turned truth on its head, saying “Saudi Arabia rejects and denounces strongly terrorism in all its forms and manifestations.”
“The kingdom has been keen to combat terrorism based on its conviction that terrorism has no identity and no religion, and from its belief that the terrorists are committing these acts stemming from their deviant ideologies and evil thought.”
Israel and Saudi Arabia are the region’s leading sponsors of terrorism. Riyadh’s absolute monarchal rule is despotic, lawless and brutal. It’s a police state practicing state terrorism internally and regionally.
The “George Tenet medal”? Seriously, there is such a thing? That explains a lot.
In view of Tenets part in US intelligence failures [lies] in the Iraq war buildup, this medal is a joke. Rather like being presented with a Pol Pot medal for good governance.
The Crusades! A Time-Proven Conflict Marketing Plan since the… wait for it! The 1200’s!…. Talk about devolution…
The Crusades were a direct response to the Ottoman Empire.
The Crusades were a murderous campaign fraught with myths and nonsense over the real estate of Jerusalem. Waging murderous wars, over real estate (becasue of it’s status in one’s religious mythology), is grossly immoral.
Exactly, and, the CHRISTIAN CRUSADES lasted over 400 years. Bannon repeatedly refers to Judeo-Christian “values” as the foundation for his own obsession with a Holy War. The sacrifices will be great, and the devastation of our planet unimaginable if this anti-Christ has his way.
This is a good example of where “a little bit of knowledge is dangerous”.
Check your history – the Crusade of 1204 was co-opted by Venice to have the Vatican backed Christian crusaders sack the Eastern Roman Empire Christian city of Constantinople.
The Ottoman Empire did not really start (in a European context anyways) until the capture of Constantinople in 1453 by Mehmed the Conqueror for Islam.
I guess I could blame it on the school systems lack of emphasis on human history?
Thank you, I had considered making that point about the non-existence of the Ottoman empire at the time that freak implies. He also clearly knows nothing about Pope Innocent III and his murderous, authoritarian agenda.
His “data” largely comes from sites such as infowars. So that’s the level of sophistication he spews.
Except you didn’t because you hadn’t a clue. But neither does james cook.
james cook: The Ottoman Empire was formally recognized as such at the end of the 1200s.
The man for whom the Ottoman empire is named was not even born until 1258 AD. (And it did not become vast, or much of an “empire,” under his leadership.) The first Crusade was called for by the Pope in 1095. You are, as usual, utterly ignorant.
james cook has the first Crusade at 1204. You’re pretty talented at timeline reversal.
Now you are simply lying. The Turkish man for whom the Ottoman empire is named, Osman, was not even born until 1258. Thus, that empire could not have been what the Fourth Crusade (1202-04) was “in response” to.
God, your lunatic beliefs make you so, so fucking stupid.
Empires aren’t made–nor named–in an evening. And james cook has the first Crusade at 1204. You’re pretty talented at timeline reversal.
Again, you are lying: ” And james cook has the first Crusade at 1204. ” He said no such thing. Even the Fourth Crusade, which he did cite, was launched decades before the man for whom the Ottoman empire was named was even born, and well before that empire was begun.
Morever, the Crusades were not launched only against Muslims. Pope Innocent III, for example, slaughtered French “heretics” and other Christians.
Where does your data come from? You even deny the existence of the rat-line that proves Obama illegally armed jihadists in Syria — an article written by Pulitzer prize winning journalist, Seymour Hersh. So stop ranting about Infowars … just to hide Obama’s crimes and your own liberal hypocrisy.
You’e a troll. This is manifestly absurd to claim about me:
“You’e a troll. This is manifestly absurd to claim about me:”
You seem to catch a lot of trolls. What are you using for bait?
Your attempt to fabricate a narrative about how the Nazis were actually leftist gets dumber by the comment.
Socialist Workers Party politics are leftist, Jose.
Using a playbook after Nuremberg to try to point fingers away from themselves won’t work any better for embarassed Obama voters either.
Please, tell all the nice people here, about your other pet theory, to wit: Satanists and the Illuminati are controlling our minds.
As Otis C. Mitchell noted in ‘Hitler’s Stormtroopers and the Attack on the German Republic, 1919–1933′: ” The party was created as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.” The name – Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei – is just marketing and has nothing to do with the actual party philosophy.
Another leftist attempt to rewrite history after Nuremberg.
You don’t market politics to anything but the progressive left by incorporating “Socialist Workers” into an organization’s name.
No amount of reinventing National as anything but a prefix on NPR will change that. Globalists wage wars on international boundaries.
No reasonable person would consider Mr. Culliton a “leftist.” His other comments would suggest he supports Donald Trump. In any event, he’s no leftist.
He does, however, appear to grasp modern history, which you utterly do not. The Nazis were, as his quote shows, completely invested in “völkisch nationalism.” That was literally their primary motivation.
Mona: That was a profound insult! How in the name of sweet Jesus, did you ever decide that I support Trump?!?! He’s terrifyingly dangerous to America and the world.
Thanks for the history part though.
Sorreee! Perhaps I misread you. Your reply to someone in a thread earlier this week, I read as supportive of Trump. But I was not sure, so I said it was only “suggestive.”
Mea culpa.
“Völks.” “Folks.”
Where have we heard that for the last eight years?
Brilliant. Yeah, keep putting 2 and 2 together. It’s entertaining.
“Völkisch nationalism” is Culliton’s words. That’s your “quote.” Yet another attempt to reinvent leftist smudging of international borders as anything other than progressive globalism and world government.
Plug the phrase “Hitler völkische” into a search engine and report what you find. Or are the Illuminati controlling the search results as well?
And you understand “Völkisch nationalism” emphasis nationalism is Mitchell’s wording.
You understand that you’re disingenuously trying to lead readers to believe the contention was on “Völkisch”–which can’t be farther from the truth. By all means Völkisch is but confirmation of the contemporary progressive left’s infatuation with the word “folks.”
Communete translated: “I don’t know how to use a search engine, so I’m gonna spit out some more non sequiturs.”
Mona translated: “I enjoy creating straw man arguments because I can’t justify my posts.”
Did you search the phrase “Hitler völkische?” You either cannot or will not. The results would reveal your duplicitous inanity.
To bad for your straw man posts, because as you know, the contention isn’t on “Hitler völkische.” It’s on “Völkisch nationalism” emphasis “nationalism,” Mitchell’s wording.
You still haven’t done the search, and likely do not know how. Hitler was a fierce nationalist, one who drew on the political concept of Völkisch. But this is likely not discussed at infowars, so such facts of history you can neither access nor process.
“world government?”
you’re a christian fundamentalist? doesn’t that place you in a bit of a conundrum if all this is foretold?
Foretold circumstances don’t equate to participation in them.
And the dumb (nay, deranged) comments are incessant.
There is no doubt that all is not well within the empire.
What I wonder about is why the primary fixation on WWII or secondary WW1 when looking at history? Neither of these conflicts were primarily religious and neither involved the theology of Islam.
Linking today with just these two conflicts is in a way its’ own – fear mongering. It is very convenient and easy to scare people with something that is still in the conscious memory, but not really the same.
Why not look back, way back – to past events when east and west collided – and there are lots of them in Roman and Vatican history?
I would say that what is happening today has nothing in common with recent past European-based wars – other than the Economic problems that led up to them.
Why not broaden the discussion beyond a fear of recent individual historical bogymen?
Because this is the progressive-left’s currency, its stock in trade. Recite from a playbook after Nuremberg that turns “Socialist Workers” politics on its ear every time the public wises up. One that consistently points fingers away from Socialist Workers from Hitler to Obama.
Because the Western actors are virtually the same as those involved in both world wars, and people comprehend and identify with those wars. Hitler was an ethno-nationalist and committed wars of aggression which consumed the world in a hideous war. Moreover, the “theology of Islam” is not causative in the current situation.
Hyper-nationalism is a poison, and right now the U.S. and it’s president have it on steroids. That’s been dangerous for the world in recent history, and is dangerous now. It’s not the only danger, but it is a big one.
“National”ism as in NPR? “National”ism as in NARAL? “National”ism as in NOW?
You are a deranged freak who thinks this man is an inspiring writer:
You have all the insightful political judgment of David Icke. Reasonable demarcations of left and right, from you, would be so improbable as to approach impossible.
Just drink your KoolAid and go back to sleep.
Another more recent phenomena is that humans have a tendency to fight the next war based on the experience of the last war………only to realize later (sometime too late) that thing have changed.
I am just trying to point out that the clashing of East and West is not new and it is dangerous to just think (fear) recent events of fascism with what the future may hold.
Broadening the thinking about this may not be a bad thing.
Absolutely. And WWII has been used and abused to prosecute multiple immoral wars. The world has been supposedly brimming with a parade of new Hitlers, from Saddam Hussein to Gadaffi.
Like the boy who cried wolf, one of the dangers is when something as dangerous as Hitler actually arises, saying so is likely to be rejected.
Fascism’s most notorious practitioner edited Italy’s premier Socialist newspaper of his day, Avanti! (“Forward!”)
Agree, this is not the playbook Bannon is working from (other than using fear-mongering propaganda of the “other” for his underlying goal, as the Nazi’s did); he borrows from all wars and their military strategies, and has a particular fondness for the Spartans vs the Athenians in terms of military strategy. His reference to 2000-2500 years ago is based on the birth and rise of Christianity, and his own prophesy that we must fight for and reclaim Judeo-Christian dominance to defeat all of Islam, not just its jihadists. Trump, who has his own Messianic delusions, is Bannon’s perfect “dull instrument” to carry out his own Messianic grandeur.
Clash of Civilizations is what the globalists want, not the nationalists.
That’s the purpose of coerced open borders in Europe and the U.S. for waves of ‘refugees’ and other opportunists from globalist-torn regions, as well as by the attempt to fund a $100 milion+ mosque a block from Ground Zero.
As usual with you, you are entirely immune to facts, such as the many iterated in the article to which you are (not) responding. But then, you’ve never evinced a relationship with facts and reality, claiming — among other preposterous things — that Antonin Scalia was murdered by “them” so a Jew would replace him on the High Court.
Tell your buddies to thank US foreign policy. As long as the US and her allies continues to rain bombs, drones and economic and environmental devastation, the muzzies and mexslims will keep coming. Yaay America, we can do it!
It’s not U.S. foreign policy any more. Not since the public wrested control back in2016 from the neocon Rockefeller Republican and other leftist infection that has abscessed Washington, DC for the past quarter century.
Bannon cannot be understood solely as a “nationalist”. The Christian apocalypse is a significant part of his worldview.
When considering the danger of irrational religious beliefs, apocalyptic ones in the hands of people with the power to bring them about, are by far the most dangerous ones. But I bet you don’t care a whole lot about it.
No Internet snark here: He literally cannot comprehend or process such a concept. Irrational beliefs are literally his stock in trade. It is what he does.
I’ve recently been studying Bannon’s pre-Trump philosophy, and he is looking for more than just a civilizational war. He is expecting, if not preparing to instigate a civil war in order to “restore” a moral Christian-supremacist state. Occupy Unmasked and Generation Zero speak to this quite transparently. With Erik Prince in the shadows of the administration to likely provide an on-demand contracted military, Sessions providing lenient oversight of police and security forces, plus Trump’s blatantly Christian-supremacist cabinet, I’m afraid that the civilizational war will also be used as cover for an armed crack down of dissenters in the US, with their full expectation (desire?) that it will lead to an armed civil war. I’m unsure what the best strategy to counter this is, other than exposition and demanding Congress to fight against Trump & Bannon. Sadly, I’m not sure how likely either are right now. Good journalists are probably our best hope for fighting them and educating society before it devolves into chaos. Keep at it Murtaza!
Yes.
Regardless of their so-called just causes, nut-cases everywhere share many common characteristics. Bannon is no different, neither is Trump.
Yes, Maz, exactly. It can hardly be said more pointedly and succinctly than you do here.
Thank you.