Minnesota Democratic Congressman Keith Ellison lost his bid to become the chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) on Saturday after a scorched-earth smear campaign targeting his religious faith, his affinity for the Nation of Islam in his youth, and his support for Palestinian rights alongside a secure Israel.
Instead, the majority of the DNC’s voting members chose former labor secretary Tom Perez to lead the party. After two rounds of voting in Atlanta, Perez netted 235 votes to Ellison’s 200.
Perez was widely perceived as being brought into the race by allies of President Obama, former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, and other members of the party establishment. One of the speakers who introduced his nomination, South Carolina Democratic Party Chair Jaime Harrison, also works as a corporate lobbyist for the D.C.-based Podesta Group. After neither candidate reached a majority of votes in the first round of voting, Harrison was on the floor, whipping votes for Perez.
Ellison — a black man, a Bernie Sanders supporter, and the first Muslim elected to Congress — earned initial support from many Democrats until a strong backlash from the Obama and Clinton camps and prominent pro-Israeli activists.
Haim Saban, the entertainment tycoon who is one of the Democratic Party’s largest donors, called Ellison both “anti-Israel” and anti-Semitic. The Anti-Defamation League called on Democrats to reject him. On the eve of the vote, prominent Democrat Alan Dershowitz proclaimed that he would leave the party if Ellison were elected chair; Jack Rosen, who leads the American Jewish Congress, emailed DNC members the day before the vote decrying Ellison’s views on the Middle East, concluding that he threatened the U.S.-Israel relationship.
Perez, on the other hand, courted pro-Israel activists during the course of the contest.
Shortly after his victory, Perez offered the newly created position of “deputy chair” to Ellison, which Ellison accepted. This is not an official position in the DNC’s bylaws so it is unclear what this position would entail. It is also unclear whether Ellison will still leave Congress, which he announced he would do if he won the chair position.
Many prominent Muslim Americans expressed disappointment in Ellison’s defeat, saying that his treatment during the course of the campaign was emblematic of how Muslims fare in public life.
The Brookings Institution’s Shadi Hamid, former Al Jazeera host Wajahat Ali, and prominent Muslim New Yorker Linda Sarsour reacted on Twitter:
Sadly, this is the sort of thing that's done to any Muslim who runs for office. Apparently, this DNC race wasn't enough to put an end to it https://t.co/twmFw8J6V8
— Shadi Hamid (@shadihamid) February 25, 2017
Ellison 4 2 state solution, voted to give $$ to Israel, against BDS, gets backing of respected Jewish Ams = still not enough to remove smear
— Wajahat Ali (@WajahatAli) February 25, 2017
Not going to lie. I am disappointed. I get solace knowing @keithellison keeps his seat in Congress. Hope he runs for Senate. #DNCChair
— Linda Sarsour (@lsarsour) February 25, 2017
Top photo: Ellison at a news conference denouncing President Trump’s travel ban on Capitol Hill on February 1.
So the big-donation sucking DNC establishment got together with the big donors, a marriage made somewhere south of heaven, to deny the voters total lack of interest in “Staying the Course” when the country is in free-fall. “We just need to improve our messaging:”. Hah! The particular affinity of these two groups, maintaining the money train and shoring up the plutocracy, is viewed as the problem by everyone not personally cashing in, and those comfortable old hacks will see their candidates challenged by the people in every primary to come. The battle is on.
I didn’t go through all 566 comments, but I never saw one pointing out the DNC did not follow their own rules and regulations. There is to be no secret ballot, as names are to be attached to the first vote, which does not count. The names allow each candidate the opportunity to go those who voted against him and try to have them change their vote. This was not done, and the second secret vote was run almost immediately. Ellison was screwed by the DNC like Sanders.
Wajahat Ali tweeted: “Ellison 4 2 state solution, voted to give $$ to Israel, against BDS, gets backing of respected Jewish Ams = still not enough to remove smear”
When will Americans realize that a teeny-tiny country (smaller than New Jersey, with a population equal to that of a large city) and a teeny-tiny minority of American citizens have disproportionate influence in our politics? All it takes is the mere suggestion that someone is not utterly and completely devoted to that teeny-tiny country and Americans will happily and self-righteously destroy a fellow American.
Mind control is not some guy in a dark room with a joystick manipulating the thoughts and movements of zombie-like characters. Mind control is how Israel manages the American people.
The Democrats just dont get it and they will never learn. Instead of embracing PROGRESSIVE policies and ideas, they keep bringing back the same Establishment candidates. And then wonder why they lost. Under Obama, Democrats have lost more than 800 state legislature seats. On the other hand, Republicans gained both houses of Congress, 12 governorships and 850 state legislature seats.
There is a common theme here folks and the Democrats just dont wanna get it. They have contended themselves with the notion that Shillary lost because of Russia and Comey, instead of because the terrible Establishment candidate that she was. Of course Trump is worse, but she and the DNC are the reason he is in power. And I guess refusing to listen to the progressive segment of your party and keep pushing for the same failed policies and fauxgressive candidates is certainly a great way to insure 8 years of that fascist demagogue Trump.
Democrats complain about Donald Trump and his viewpoint of Islamists. It looks like the real Islam bashers are the big money wing of the Democratic Party, and more importantly, it appears that Democrats do whatever the big money tells them to do.
Looks like Trump for 8 years.
A sincere thanks for the exposition down-thread of Communete’s fallacies by Mona and Maisie. That is how it’s done. Bravo.
Except they did no such thing, you deluded Bernie voter. Maisie’s still finding her footing as a major league writer, while Mona had to consult the New York Times before each press of send.
Monsieur or madame – it is unseemly for one such as yourself to respond to being trolled. We have standards here, don’ ya’ know.
I’m not finding my footing, Communete, my foot is placed where it should be – kicking your stupid ass.
Bless you
It’s time to confront the neoliberals a with the fact of Scandinavia: A better place to live for most than the U.S., and certainly no Stalinist hellhole.
Social democracy is a true democracy. The under-35s already have positive views toward that version of socialism; the term must continue to be mainstreamed and brought into the light.
Democratic socialism is the lippy, prancing, smiling, lavender unicorn that progressives tack idyllically onto their walls whenever socialism fails them.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/24/stockholm-rioting-continues-fifth-night
Wealth inequality in Scandanivains countries is more bewnign becasue:
Businesses continue to do business, while the suffering capitalism otherwise generates is greatly ameliorated.
The moral question for humans regarding an economy is : What generates a good standard of living and best sees to the needs of all? Social democracy is the best answer discovered so far.
Yes that must account for the fifth night of economic riots in Stockholm by residents “who cannot find work, lack education, and feel marginalized.”
You just see fifth nights of car-burning economic riots all over the U.S.
The United States is an oligarchical system. Are you really defending what the neoliberals and neoconservatives have made of this country, over the Scandinavian system of which you have no first hand knowledge? The USA has certainly seen prolonged protests and even rioting from disenfranchised groups over the years! It would be one thing if conservative’s oft-cited charity were to actually look after the impoverished in some comprehensive manner, and governmental uplift programs should certainly be implemented well rather than corrupted by Democratic/Republican corporatism, but America is nothing to be proud of as it is – I’ve never heard another paleo-conservative praise the present system, and they and all libertarians I know are as disgusted by Trump’s acquiescence to the same-old, same-old as we progressives are. It’s very odd to see you praising the USA since neopolitical fingerprints are still all over it and are not likely to be removed without a paradigm shift which the present administration has shown no signs of welcoming.
He’s picking one week of rioting a few years ago in one Scandinavian nation at a time of some economic distress, as if that disproves the clear reality that social democracy is better for most (not perfect, there is no utopia to be found among humans) than the United States.
Scandinavia is not hell on earth, which is what wingnuts have long insisted anything smacking of socialism necessarily must be. That’s a myth they hold very dear, but it is simply false, as the Scandinavian example abundantly shows.
But for the faith-based right-wingers, facts simply are not permitted to get in the way of their myths.
I just never hear such garbage from my conservative friends, even though we disagree a lot – this is just like talking to a Rush Limbaugh fan, not a politically engaged libertarian or paleo-con. It’s like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich never made alliances in his world, like Bernie Sanders and the (real) conservatives never got together and exposed the huge mistakes of the Federal Reserve either. In the fight against corporatism, militarism and imperialism, libertarians, classical liberals, paleo-conservatives and progressives are natural allies, and this guy seems to have no idea about that whatever.
I’m not saying he should just accept the Scandinavian system, but his criticism is uninformed compared to how my friends would challenge democratic socialism as a goal for *every* aspect of the nation; some of the conservatives I know are actually even on board for Single Payer – but only that – as it is so cost effective, and the crony capitalism of Big Pharma and Insurance offends them more than that slight embrace of practical socialism.
It was common on the right, including the Limbaughs when that clown got his start, to insist that any system of wealth redistribution and cap on income and corporate size was all incipient Stalinism — with a gulag just around the corner. No hyperbole — that was standard right-wing cant for decades. (And I bought it myself until I got a clue starting in college, and then working in law and seeing the rapacious evil of corporation up very close, and how they purchase laws from the lawmakers they essentially own.)
Stalin is now dated, so conservatives have had to grope for new bogeymen. They’ll point to Chavez in Venezuela — who does have a bad record on important civil liberties — and insist such authoritarianism must necessarily accompany social democracy. But that’s false. Scandinavia shows it is false.
Heck, even to the North, Canada shows that something like Single Payer is damn effective. All a conservative has to do is go there, and they soon see for themselves how it doesn’t make one speak with a Russian accent or grow a Che Guevara beard, it actually makes Canadians pretty smug about being so wise.
But I’m sure Communete will tell us people are lying on the streets waiting for medical attention, even though none of my libertarian (etc) friends would be so silly. Perhaps, since you’re talking about “for decades” with regard to this guy, it’s because we’re all so young – we can and do communicate with varied perspectives in the world and don’t get so bogged down in stereotypes, even if some of us do puzzlingly yearn for more traditional lifestyles.
Do you know how bad the economy had been for ordinary Venezuelans under Chavez? Do you have any earthly clue how bad it is now under his similarly minded successor?
Do you have an earthly clue why you are asking me about Venezuela when I am promoting the Scandinavian model? With a special nod at Denmark.
“Stalin is now dated, so conservatives have had to grope for new bogeymen. They’ll point to Chavez in Venezuela — who does have a bad record on important civil liberties — and insist such authoritarianism must necessarily accompany social democracy.” Mona
Scandinavia is a collection of monarchies that its subjects are coerced to underwrite.
And engineered socioeconomic constraints like “democratic socialism” always presuppose authoritarian economic and social surveillance and hyper-state Big Government enforcement mechanisms.
That is all your fantasy (the monarchy is ceremonial, a la the UK). Denmark is a good place to live, better than the U.S for most, by all reasonable economic metrics. It is not bastion of authoritarianism.
He’s going to tell you the Queen of England eats babies, and is part of the satanic whatnot. You’ll see.
He may get tot hat. But for now, just below, he’s informed us all that:
Well, then, yes, Queen Elizabeth’s Satanic baby-munching cannot be far behind.
lol
I’d missed all that somehow. Maybe my mind glosses over babbling goofiness unless it’s directed at me.
It’s been…ridiculous. Good night!
Ask Canadians how “ceremonial” the queen’s Governor General over their territory is. The one that dissolved their Parliament several times over in the past two decades.
Moreover, Denmark taxpayers’ enrichment of their monarchy isn’t fantasy.
Neither the Queen Nor the Governor General Can Dissolve Parliament Unilaterally!
As your passage demonstrates, it’s never easy for Commonwealth of Nations districts like Canada to admit. But,
“But as Canada’s acting head of state, standing in for the Queen in our constitutional monarchy, a governor general has what are called reserve or prerogative powers, emanating from the throne, which are only to be invoked in a time of great constitutional and political impasse, such as may be the case now.
“Simply put, the governor general is to be the final arbiter to ensure Canada has a stable and functioning Parliament, a requirement that could — in the extreme case — provoke her to dismiss a prime minister who may be trying to cling to power unconstitutionally or acting above the law. ”
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/the-delicate-role-of-the-governor-general-1.701974
I.e., it’s not only ceremonial.
What part of “The Governor General of Canada can only dissolve Parliament on the advice of the Prime Minister of Canada. As a practical matter, the Queen could only dissolve Parliament directly if she were in Canada and if the Prime Minister’s Office, Government House, and Buckingham Palace had made the appropriate arrangements before because of the nature of the Letters Patent, 1947. In other words, the Queen could also only dissolve the Parliament of Canada by and with the advice and consent of the Prime Minister of Canada” do you not understand?
What part of the CBC’s summary, “Simply put, the governor general is to be the final arbiter to ensure Canada has a stable and functioning Parliament, a requirement that could — in the extreme case — provoke her to dismiss a prime minister who may be trying to cling to power unconstitutionally or acting above the law. ” do you not understand?
Also, what part of “Though the monarch retains all executive, legislative, and judicial power in and over Canada,[58][59] the governor general is permitted to exercise most of this, including the Royal Prerogative, in the sovereign’s name; some as outlined in the Constitution Act, 1867, and some through various letters patent issued over the decades, particularly those from 1947 that constitute the Office of Governor General of Canada;[60] they state: “And We do hereby authorize and empower Our Governor General, with the advice of Our Privy Council for Canada or of any members thereof or individually, as the case requires, to exercise all powers and authorities lawfully belonging to Us in respect of Canada.”[61] The office itself does not, however, independently possess any powers of the Royal Prerogative, only exercising the Crown’s powers with its permission; a fact the Constitution Act, 1867 left unchanged.[62] ” do you not understand?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_General_of_Canada
You said the Governor General had dissolved the Parliament 3 times, and I have informed you that this has never happened without the Prime Minister’s permission – nor is there any precedent for thinking such may happen without the PM’s permission in the future.
Your attempt to depict all this as an imposition on Canada’s sovereignty is utterly stupid, as I have demonstrated, as nowhere has the sovereignty ever been interfered with.
Now stop trying to sound clever and put your dunce cap back on, you hysterical twit.
Let’s see if you can decipher this:
“The three main reserve powers that a governor general has are to dismiss a prime minister, to dissolve Parliament (or not) and to delay or refuse royal assent to legislation, which has been used only once before, in Alberta during the Depression.”
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/the-delicate-role-of-the-governor-general-1.701974
And he doesn’t need the Canadian PM’s permission to prosecute those three main reserve powers.
I’ve explained it to you – it has never happened without the PM’s will and it never will.
A technicality that is never used and would be unthinkable does not make your case that Canada’s sovereignty is undermined, for it never has been. Get it through your head.
Now please stop embarrassing yourself.
I’m not asking anyone anything based on assertions from you. You’re a well-established crank.
(Canadian Bill Owen pisses a lot about Justin Trudeau; I’ve never heard him do so about the Queen.)
Dear G-d,
Monarchism, ROFLOL!
Dispatches from Mordor.
All intellectually honest people are natural allies against corporatism, militarism, and imperialism.
Even the most ardent libertarian can buy into socialism when presented as a voluntary system (i.e. employee owned company).
Unfortunantly most people are not honest and are eager to embrace their own team’s version of authoritarianism.
I agree with this with regards to the examples you cite. That said, the idea that libertarians are “intellectually honest people” is a lie.
For example, you state that “Even the most ardent libertarian can buy into socialism when presented as a voluntary system” when every libertarian I’ve encountered proclaims socialism and every other “ism” they don’t like as ideologically untenable because it’s “not voluntary.”
In America, that “unless it’s voluntary” position is intellectually dishonest, whether it’s taken on universal health care or taxation or any other position subject to whatever extent of majority rule exists in a particular case (i.e., voting). Why? Because by default you voluntarily live in the United States and agree to the results of whatever programs that ‘majority rule’ system implements.
Unfortunately, libertarians are intellectually dishonest; eager instead to embrace their own team’s version of “integrity.”
Living in the United States is voluntary. If you and yours don’t like the fact that your volunteer-ism begins with that idea and that you, like everyone else here, is subject to those conditions, then you’d best become more intellectually honest with yourselves and everyone else, and voluntarily leave the rest of us to our fate, rather than subjecting us to the irreconcilable laws and dysfunctional rules that libertarianism inflicts when it tries to shoe-horn itself into a democracy based not on selfishness, but on mutually agreed upon principles.
Libertarian at its heart is simply anti-authoritarian and egalitarian. Political philosophy is very complicated and most people have very little working understanding when they self identify with the first thing that seems to match their own values, and they may not even have enough self awareness to really understand their own values. Libertarian as a label appeals to someone that falls in the bucket of “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” and is willing to defect from the false choice of 2 party identity. And many adopt its label for an “all I can take” system to your point… but this Koch version of libertarianism is no different than a Hillary Clinton version of progressivism.
Most libertarians conflate the damages caused by state authoritarianism, with the economic model of that state, and haven’t thought enough about it yet to see the difference. I spent 20yrs self identifying as a libertarian not putting much thought into it at all, and after getting engaged in the election BS began to realize I have a lot more in common with the honest left, as at its heart, it is the same as the honest right (just different ideas of human base motives and incentives). I even voted Green party this year! And that was the point that Maise was making that I really agreed with… the labels we put onto ourselves creates more division than is really there to begin with.
98% of america is being hurt by our corporatism, militarism, and imperialism. Everyone focuses on slight differences of Democrat/Republican parties and how far to the left or right each is going, but no one focuses on the fact that what they have in common is (by purpose) what all honest people are against. The only people I know that voted for Trump did so simply for the “drain the swap” platform for example, and I am sure there are many others. Most people simply don’t understand how corrupt our corporatocracy is because our society works very hard to conceal it and it takes work to understand it, but all honest people of all political affiliations are against corruption.
“…the labels we put onto ourselves creates more division than is really there to begin with.”
Thank you for an excellent reply to my rather strident, knee-jerk comment. I agree with most everything you’ve stated, and particularly appreciate the tone of understanding and awareness in how you describe the ways in which we see and navigate our complex world. Self-awareness is a process, and on that journey we’ll all be at different places at varying times, and we need to be mindful that we’re all traveling on the same road.
Yes, absolutely. Thanks for the response.
Actually a visible paradigm shift: he removed U.S. support for TPP; and he issued an executive order to make the oppressive ACA less intrusive–resulting in last week’s acknowledgement by the IRS that it was no longer rejecting tax returns with missing health insurance information. He installed paleo Jeff Sessions as AG. His advisory brain trust in the oval office is paleo. He announced high level talks with major companies almost immediately that resulted in a number of jobs being repatriated. You’re being disingenuous.
Removing support for the TPP is laudable, but it leaves the situation as it was before Obama proposed the damn thing – that is, still in utter shambles and at the mercy of endemic corporatism (see NAFTA etc). His executive order on the ACA isn’t impressive to me, as only a public option or Single Payer would be sensible. Jeff Sessions is a complete idiot. Repatriating jobs without ending the corruption of crony capitalism (yes, that occurs with national companies as well as multinationals, as I’m sure you know) is hardly the stuff of a paradigm shift. You’re being pathetic, trying to expand these wretchedly small gestures into grand accomplishments. The Dems and the GOP often go back and forth with these little cosmetic whatnots and neither side impresses me in the slightest – if they want my praise they’ll stop the corporatism, militarism, imperialism and the surveillance state which are the real enemy of the people – and whether those people are paleo-conservative or progressive, if they are sincere they will settle for no less, certainly not the disappointing measures of false “change-agents” like Trump or Obama even if they do make a style change from the plodding warmongering normalcy of the Clintons and the Bushes.
You sound uninformed about Trump’s policy position toward NAFTA; he’s stated clearly he intends to renegotiate it. That was also clear as he’s made noises about imposition of tarriffs on some Mexican originated goods recently.
Your politics are tidy little Occupy bromides and sophomore level counter-culture.
Trump talks! Trump makes noises! When he gets out of the John and reinstates Glass-Steagall, give me a holler, will ya?
Stop trying to insult me, or I’ll nail you to the fucking wall (figuratively). You have no idea how patient I’ve been.
Curious, Maisie, because your posts just on this page alone contain a grab bag variety of insults toward others. You want to dish it out.
I’ve only insulted your claims of being a sincere paleo-conservative, which you are not.
I have held back from embarrassing you for other poor qualities you possess, while you have been throwing everything patronizing you can think of at me, and it is starting to grate.
The Trump administration is a mixed ideological bag of wingnuttery. Sessions probably does fit the paleocon profile– they do tend to be racist and very culturally conservative, both of which he is. He even has a hard-on for going after pot smokers as “bad people.”
He’s like no paleo-conservative I’ve discussed anything with.
William F. Buckley would laugh at these twerps, and even he was a jerk.
William F. Buckley died before you were born. You have not a clue about what William F. Buckley was. He was an affected, Connecticut yankee dandy neocon.
Your brain died before I was born.
Sure, he was neoconservative. Oh, wait…
William F. Buckley Jr.
Bonesmen aren’t paleocons.
Of course! No paleo-conservative has been a member of a secret society, no paleo-conservative has ever been to Bohemian Grove and bowed down before an owl or whatever they do, no paleo-conservative has ever played Led Zeppelin backwards or been a guitar player for the Beatles.
It was only a matter of time before your actual obsession with the Illuminati and the New World Order came to the surface. Do you also spend your time looking for birdcages in Katy Perry videos and accusing Beyoncé of making satanic triangles with her hands?
You see, most paleo-conservatives (and I only mentioned Buckley because of his traditionalism and piercing qualities of intellect, not in an attempt to label him but to distinguish such clear – if wrong – thinking from the foggy uptight mess of someone like Sessions), most paleo-conservatives don’t miz their philosophy with wack-a-doodle gibberish about luciferians and interdimensional creatures from hell. At least most of the ones I know.
Maisie has more of a clue than you. William F. Buckley was a traditional conservative. NOT a neocon, nor a paleocon. He stood in the tradition of Edmund Burke and his hero Russell Kirk.
Neocons were born among Jewish intellectuals in 1960s NYC (but then spread beyond that cohort). Buckley was a movement conservative and intellectual leader well before the arrival of the neocons, and he never shared the neocons’ acceptance of the welfare state and other entitlement programs.
But that’s not the sort of intellectual history one finds in your usual, unhinged books about the Illuminati & etc. Hence, your ignorance.
Yalie Bonesmen working for E. Howard Hunt aren’t paleocons.
Buckley was an honorary neocon.
William F. Buckley was not a neoconservative, not of any variety. Neither was he a palecon. He was, as I already stated, a movement conservative. He founded National Review in about 1954, with the motto: “Standing athwart history yelling stop!” He was deeply against any notions of movements to effect social change, and abroad, his bugbear was halting Communism.
Neoconservatives believed in nation-building, that human societies could literally be constructed –a notion Buckley utterly rejected. Nor were they upset by the New Deal — which Buckely was. You absolutely have no idea what you are talking about, and certainly no license to tell Maisie she lacks a clue.
Last statement is true regarding intent of commenter-
By virtually every relevant metric, the people of Denmark are economically better off than Americans. There’s simply no wingnut argument that could convince anyone reasonable that Denmark is some hellish horror show rather than a safer place for people of limited means.
Only mindless adherence to rightwing ideology could oppose something like the Denmark model.
Democratic socialism in the US in the post-ww2 period created the most broadly prosperous society in history, while paying off the war debt (roughly equal to current debt as a % of GDP) and rebuilding Europe and Japan. All the “Who you gonna believe, me or your lyin’ eyes?” denials of wingnuts and New Dems doesn’t change that. Plutocracy sucks, even though it’s popular with rich people. Bribery sucks, even legalized bribery, and even though it’s popular with politicians and special interests.
I wonder if progressives understand that their Marxist, ant farm, bee hive, worker drone, hyper-state overseer politics won’t really gain traction in precints where free individuals use their natural law rights.
Eyeore voice: “Whi’re gonna start ourown party.”
Marxism is about rulership.
Does the economy rule you or do you rule the economy.
Marxism is about ownership.
Do you own your life support systems or do you not.
What you are omitting is the larger picture where communism embraced only incentivism. The US is just as guilty and disgusting for having only incentivism.
Is your bourgeois private property now mine?
the look on keith ellison’s face said it all…this is the third dnc chair obama and clinton have picked….tim kaine and DWC are the others…progressives have to form other organizations…all the DNC will do is fundraise and send out letters for candidates chosen by their megadonors…i am sure after this the DNC will not get Sanders email list…yes magazine and the magazine
GOOD has lists of progressive organizations to join…justice democrats is one….disappointed in President Obama big time
Lord knows that self conscious progressives also like to giggle. They’re afraid of being laughed at by people like themselves if they run reform campaigns from within their own identity politics.
They also fall for personality cults that simplify things for them with silkscreen effects, silhouttes and other high contrast art.
Progressives want to be led. They want to be told what to do. That’s why they’re unwilling to reform their party from within.
The ones remaining aren’t “progressive.” You’ve been told this before.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm
Name one line item from there that is not progressive. Is Hillary the next right winger in your revisionist history books?
I read that long ago – but, unlike Mr. Wltmellow, who still believes in these Democrat fairy tails, I do not.
He wants to think everyone but paleo-conservatives, including neoconservatives and neoliberals, is left-wing. His vocabulary is substantially and bizarrely different from everyone else’s, which is why he is incomprehensible to regular people and can make no real effort to understand actual progressives.
Paleoconservatives comprise the only political movement that tries to advance liberty.
Personally I have nothing against paleo-conservatives, or non-aggression libertarians for that matter (in fact I prefer both of these groups to neoliberals, so-called centrists, or neocons), as I can speak to most of them and not run into the preposterous convolutions and absolute refusal to form alliances that you seem to embody. You don’t represent your philosophy very well, in my opinion.
We didn’t keep Hillary out of office by forming alliances with you.
You didn’t put a paleo-conservative into office, either. Presuming the election result was legitimate (doubtful given the hackable nature of voting machines), you put the Zionist puppet, establishmentarian bullshit-artist and racist -encourager Donald Trump into office, who serves neoliberal and neoconservative interests like a corporate whore on steroids.
But certainly neither of us are fond of Hillary Clinton. There – you and I have something in common, if not the English language.
Statesmanship and balance and constructive relationships with other populations are not puppet Zionism. Service to country in the face of erosion of your business reputation, willingness to endure the bad press of the non-initiate, are not racism.
As you grow and mature as a new writer, you’ll become more familiar with economy of words.
Well, I would encourage your growth of wisdom, too, but from nothing comes only more nothing.
Paleocons have a respectable intellectual tradition that would’t remotely include the fringe tripe this individual constantly spews. He’s into Alex Jones, infowars, Illuminati conspiracies & etc. Paleocons are wrong about much, but not generally unmoored from reality. Merely highly reactionary about social issues and frequently racist in a genteel manner.
Mona, the self-styled “researcher” who angrily resisted for weeks that We Are Change was a truther site; who sang SPLC to the heavens before being shown Harper’s Magazine’s expose of its business model ( http://harpers.org/archive/2000/11/the-church-of-morris-dees/ ), wouldn’t be able to name a paleoconservative she has any respect for.
Mona has only enough brains to cause problems for the comments section of the web site that she compulsively haunts because she lives vicariously through Glenn Greenwald, a figure she admits having a black velvet painting of as an obsessed groupie.
Really? A black velvet painting… Oh my!
Non sequiturs about my changing opinions about Rudkowski or the SPLC — when shown facts that changed my mind — ironically enhance my reputation. Intelligent and reasonable people do, in fact, always adjust to whatever reality new facts indicate. (Which should not be taken to mean I have no use for the SPLC; it does do some good work and provides a good service. It’s just got some issues with a leadership that seems pretty greedy.)
This ability to change one’s mind in light of new information is not an ability, by the way, that I’ve seen that either you or your pal Karl possess. As utter ideologues, neither of you has ever evinced the slightest ability to change your minds when confronted with evidence that contradicts your hard ideological commitments.
Even the most cursory interest in the environment around her would inform any other self-styled “researcher” of her subjects’ basic properties and attributes–before she used them as arguments in her writing.
You lack curiosity about your world, and you’re the most superficial kind of newspaper snob.
You are an oddball, and among your weirdnesses is this notion that I’m a “self-styles researcher.” Where you got that from, god only knows.
In any event, I change my mind when confronted with facts that require a reasonable and intellectually honest person do so. You and Karl do not; in your case I sincerely don’t think you know how to determine reality, not in light of some of the literally incredible and bizarre “facts” you frequently set forth. (E.g., Nancy Pelosi is “dark occultist” and Antonin Scalia was murdered to put a Jew on the Court.)
I put it in quotes because you referred to yourself in the past as a “researcher,” in a professional context no less, in these pages.
If you were better at reading comprehension you’d get that Antonin Scalia was assassinated to cover for the potential loss of the WH for progressive NWO globalism and not 24 hours later a giggling Obama had yet another leftist Jew ready for Senate confirmation, is distinctly different than “Antonin Scalia was murdered to put a Jew on the Court.” But you’re not that smart.
I see.
Who assassinated him? (Remember, I’m not that smart, so you’ll have to spell it out — specifically who killed him, and how did they do it?) And why is it significant, so much so that you noted it, that Obama wished to replace him specifically with a Jew?
All I recall about the researcher thing is someone asked me what kind of work I did for Glenn. I did legal research for him when we practiced together as lawyers, and since then, I’ve done some non-legal research as well. If that strikes you as odd, how odd. Research is integral to the practice of law.
Does Mr. Springmeier not cover that in one of his books, or does he assume the stuff that shows up in legal briefs is the product of mind-control, as dictated by the Illuminati?
You’re too modest, Mona. No you actually bragged to Karl three months ago that you worked in a professional publishing capacity, using the word “researcher,” without the poster asking.
You want to forget that now, don’t you.
And yet it is you who attempts to cynically manipulate Intercept moderators into censoring the comments of those with whom you disagree by complaining about their fleeting use of retributive rhetorical methods for which you yourself are legendary.
I have no idea what that means. But I do know it is an utter non sequitur.
Your right. What I meant to say was:
The point being that you will sink to any level to silence those who do not reflect your point of view.
Again, I do not know what “retributive use rhetorical methods” means, and rather doubt I’ve ever complained about it. Certainly not to “silence those who do not reflect my point of view.”
Smear? He’s a member of an intolerant religion, saying that is enough, smear not required.
Time to disavow the democrat and republican wings of the war party. Failure to do so will result in total collapse of the amerikan empire. But then again as Morris Berman says, the failure of the amerikan empire would be a good thing and perhaps a new republic can be born.
good screen name. ;)
we just initiated our new chapter of the Greens… relatively easy to do– and many Bernie (and Occupy) and recovering Democrats are in it!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDu7jw04NPkUng2tT2Tictw?
The deep structural flaws in the American political system encompass both the Democratic and Republican parties and are symptomatic of imperial overreach. Think about, for example, the collapse of the British and French empires, a process mostly completed by the end of the 1950s. Was it due to French and British liberal-conservative politics?
Take, as a case in point, Trump’s proposed 10% increase in the U.S. military budget, by $54 billion – does anyone expect any opposition to this from Democratic Congressmembers? All they will do is fight for their share of the pie, to hand out to elements of the military-industrial complex in their home districts. Even Bernie Sanders, he did this with the F-35 program, which is why Vermont got a lot of F-35 manufacturing jobs from Lockheed Martin.
Of course, Trump’s boost to the military budget means you can forget about necessary infrastructure (other than pipelines for Big Oil) such as roads and bridges, school and government buildings, water supply infrastructure, waste treatment plants, and of course, since Trump claims global warming is a myth, no preparation for droughts, floods and sea level rise. This of course is the same general course followed by Obama.
A real shift would look like FDR’s New Deal – hang the banks out to dry, end all federal corporate welfare programs for Wall Street, invest in domestic infrastructure on a massive scale (which would necessitate severe cuts to military budgets, from NATO to foreign military bases to arms procurement), invest in public education to bring the average American educational level up to those seen in Japan or Germany, create single-payer public healthcare like every other modern industrialized nation has, etc.
Do you really see either of our grossly corrupt pander-to-the-elite parties doing any of this? At best, you might see state and local governments moving in this direction – but the grossly corrupt and dishonest federal government, they’re just going to keep feeding the imperial beast until it comes crashing down like the Soviet Union did.
Obviously, then, state and local politics are the points to focus on – the national parties are hopelessly corrupt and should be condemned and ignored. One interesting way to tackle this is for people to start paying their federal income tax to their state government, that would cause some hysteria in Washington. That would be a real rebellion, wouldn’t it?
Chuckie Schumer is only pissed off that he can’t give all the monies to his Uncle Bibi in the Zionist Entity.
Dispatches from Mordor
Jimmy Dore: DNC Gives Keith Ellison “PARTICIPATION TROPHY” In Insulting Unity Attempt
Toward the end Dore actually points out that Sanders and Ellison need to “nut up” – that is, get far more gutsy/ballsy about standing up to the Democratic Party, which needs to be said by as many progressives as possible, as such a demand will either abolish or expose their unwillingness to do so.
I’ve understood why Bernie was so collegial when he was in the Congress, and when running for President. He wanted to “rise above the fray” and present as decent, in the hope of getting at least some things done. That’s just got to done with.
The establishment simply abuses that and has no respect for it. It’s time to grow some balls. Get angry and confrontational, and let it show. That’s how you get a movement to angrily and energetically march behind you.
I think people really want to see that, too. Playing nice with people who have no sympathy whatever for the poor or otherwise disenfranchised is so disheartening to behold. I’m so glad Dore said Ellison should have refused, and that Sanders should get more aggressive – it’s tiresome watching liberals criticize Trump and the GOP and yet excuse the very establishment deliberately disempowering and co-opting progressives.
As Jimmy said, the elite want “Strong Republicans and weak Democrats.” It’s a remarkable summary of the deception being displayed – and unless people like Sanders actually outspokenly fight back against the hamstringing of progressivism, people are going understandably start giving up on him. So much of Sanders’ appeal was his scathing rebukes of the ‘Clinton outlook’ choking the Party’s effectiveness, and he can’t just continue ignore that without being seen as a sellout.
Another slap in the face from the Clinton Machine to Sanders.
Sanders said on Face The Nation he wants to revive the Democrat Party.
Wake Up Bernie !!!!!
It’s time for the Independent Party to form with you as it’s Head and Keith Ellison as it’s Party Chairman.
There is much in the CVs of both Ellison and Perez to make them suspect as agents of authentic change of the DP. A stake must be put through the heart of that party so alternative movements with needed authenticity can rise.
Oh well, my comment about Ellison and Russia/Trump won’t leave the “Latest” section. Obviously I said something naughty. Sorry about that. Not. Here’s something else a bit controversial, but not my fault:
(Ronan points out that either Ellison or Perez as DNC Chair is a signal from the Democratic establishment that they don’t really want to change.)
Sam Ronan On TRULY Unifying Progressive Movements
Hahaha.
So if they’d brought in an amateur and an emotionally unstable manchild who tweets like a chimpanzee like the Republicans did, they’d be signalling they want to change?
By that logic they ought to turn the party over to a precocious four year old who knows how to spell.
Great strategy. Fire the experts.
The Bolsheviks used a similar strategy. Shoot the intellectuals. Make the farmers bosses and the bosses farmers. Tell everyone it’s for their own good or, you know, if they would only knew what’s good for them.
Do you seriously think the Democrats didn’t notice they lost the last election?
You occasionally calm down and attempt to sound learned and reasonable, and then return to exploding with inflammatory episodes. It’s kind of weird, dude. Are there two people at the keyboard?
I don’t believe you really want a detailed response – so please just pretend I said something “Bolshevik,” and have a nice day believing the Democrats are strategizing sincerely on behalf of the people.
Vox: Keith Ellison’s supporters say Israel attacks helped sink his DNC bid: An eleventh-hour campaign targeted Ellison as “anti-Israel.” And his allies are furious.
The Israel Lobbies in Western nations are cancers on the body politics.
It wasn’t a fruition of islamophobia. It was the use of pre-existing islamophobia to cudgel the imminent fruition of a left wing in the democratic party.
Ellison voted against military aid to our ally Israel when Israel was under rocket attack.
Both were bad choices.
The democratic party seems to commit suicide on a daily basis now.Its like groundhog day.
The democrats just proved that they’re content losing the next three or four election cycles. Good riddance to them.
The Democrats are content being perceived as the only viable option to Republicans, and this is why they don’t feel they should really be less dependent on corruption than the GOP. People, they believe, have nowhere else to go.
I have said this before, but the late Walter Karp (long a favorite of James Fallows) stated over and over that parties are willing to allow seeming desolation of candidate after candidate as long as the party maintains power. Trying to make sense of the tactics is a worthless exercise…follow the power.
The democratic party had a chance to show that they’d learned the lesson of the past eight years, but the election of Perez proves that they either don’t understand what they’re doing wrong or that they don’t care about driving voters away from the party.
The democrats are not worried about any mass exodus.
They know that they are a party full of hypocrites and that they can
continue to use words to sway their supporters to ignore their
corrupt scheming because their supporters lack integrity and
convictions and their actions are primarily based in a sense
of superiority and masochistic delusions.
They are republicans who lie and willfully ignore corruption
in order to dominate others, just like the rest of the republicans.
The party is the problem.
The DNC doesn’t care about winning. Fundraising and networking is the name of the game.
Glenn Greenwald this week wrote a post on Keith Ellison last week. Greenwald does correctly highlite that Ellison is not a Clinton loyalist and also points to the Israel influence as part of the reason for putting forth Perez.
But IMO, there may also be a second and just as important reason why Ellison was actively attacked and Perez put forth. I have only been able to find this one statement of Ellison regarding the Russian Meme put out by the Clinton campaign.
https://keithfordnc.org/news/2017/1/4/keith-ellison-statement-on-trump-siding-with-russia-over-dnc-hack
It seems that Ellison may not be onboard with the Clinton campaign/Deep State’s/DNC’s desire to de-legitimize or mire the Trump administration with investigations and to possibly use this as a basis for impeachment.
Has anyone seen any comments on Ellison’s view regarding Russian hack where zero evidence has yet been presented? If so, can you please provide a link? Thanks
Oops, poor editing on my part…..Greenwald’s article was last week….skip over my mishap about ‘this week’….sorry….:(
From Ellison’s statement to which you linked:
I do not believe the Deep State is really opposed to Trump at all – although a few individuals in the CIA certainly seem to dislike him – nor do I believe Trump is Putin’s Pal (even though he seems to enjoy the perception that he is less antagonistic to Russia than Democrats – the veracity of which remains to be seen), but obviously the Democrats are eager to pin the Russian tail on Trump’s ass to distinguish him theatrically from them without having to abandon their equally corporatist warmongering corruptions.
And there is nothing in Ellison’s statement that doesn’t sound like establishmentarian Clinton-type crap regarding this situation, so I don’t know why you’d say “It seems that Ellison may not be onboard with the Clinton campaign” regarding this – indeed Ellison sounds like a typical moron in this respect.
Moderator: Thank you for allowing this comment.
This is off-topic, but since my above comment touching on this subject did post finally I have another comment about what I see as the silly suggestions that Trump is really Putin’s Pal and that the Deep State is opposed to Trump for this and other reasons. I have consistently claimed all such is theater largely promoted to make Trump look like an outsider (which appeals to his fans) and Democrats look different from him (which appeals to their supporters, obviously) even though they aren’t really – at least not in the all-important areas of corporatism, militarism, imperialism and the unconstitutional/world-insulting surveillance state.
As further proof of my contentions, look at who Trump has chosen as National Security advisor:
New National Security Adviser McMaster: A Military Industrial Complex Connection (Please read whole piece for more details)
McMasters is a sitting general. He was obliged to say yes as the president is his commander and chief.
His first choice declined. What does that tell you about his second choice? He needed to pick someone who can’t say “no”. Otherwise, very embarrassing, right?
Poor leaders cannot attract talent. And Trump is a poor leader.
McMasters is way too much “the system” for Trump to be seen as anti-establishment, is what I mean.
Trump is a puppet, like all the rest of them, Democrat and GOP. None of them lead. The Deep State leads.
Which puppetmaster is pulling the string on his tweets? Just curious.
I think the better analogy would be, “Who let the fox into the henhouse?”
And what I’m saying is that Trump had no real choice but to choose McMasters because his options are extremely limited by his obnoxious behavior. Like I had mentioned a few months back to RRheard, what sort of people would want to work in a Trump administration?
I presumed from the beginning he would have difficulty finding qualified people to work with him because he’s obnoxious, childish and inexperienced. Of course, he’s surrounded himself with person(s) not having any management experience in running a government.
But the pool becomes more and more limited as time goes on and people see how incapable he is at running the Executive branch. I’ve often found that there are very few people willing to step into an environment of chaos and problems to be solved. Mostly because the average person cannot fix big problems and don’t want to bother to try.
To my mind McMasters is too much of a seasoned establishment figure to be considered some kind of a desperate person settling for a position supposedly unwanted by many, and in point of fact I believe there are countless individuals who would take the job. As far as I can tell McMasters has been selected by the Deep State and Trump neither has nor wants any choice in the matter. Trump is allowed only very little latitude in these kinds of things, even if he could be bothered with such – which I doubt.
I see now that your perspective with the system is in some ways quite different from mine (not that this is an insurmountable problem, just that I see little point in pursuing in-depth dialog regarding details with our premises so far apart), and that you perceive comprehensive independent agency for politicians and figures in the elite-owned establishment where I see nothing of the kind.
Thanks Maisie. I agree this language is similar. But this was put out on Jan 4, 2017. Just over 2 weeks after announcement of Perez announcement to run for DNC chair.
In other words, this seems like a reactionary statement to tell the Clinton people, “I’m behind you, kind of”. I can’t find any earlier statement(s) by Ellison regarding the Russia Meme.
Just as Obama was bogged down for years with this nonsense surrounding his birth certificate, I think the Clinton faction (and Clinton herself) would like to bog down Trump for years, if possible, with this Russia meme.
I think Clinton wants to do two things: 1) Keep her tentacles into the DNC so she & the Clinton foundation can keep collecting $$$ for favors; and 2) continue to harass or use her political allies to drive an impeachment of Trump.
I don’t think Clinton is gonna retire from Politics. Otherwise, why bother to put out the ad she just put out.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/26/in-new-ad-hillary-clinton-says-protesting-agitating-is-democratic-party-at-its-best/
And yes, it’s all purely conjecture on my part, admittedly.
Agreed about Clinton – she is, as Assange put it, a massive “cog” in the mechanisms of the establishment. She will run again, I believe. It’s a revolting thought, but there it is. That she wants any credit for progressive movements, or association with them, is quite disgusting but typically manipulative of her. And yes, her whole camp wants this Trump/Russia thing to live on as it such an easy way to distinguish themselves without actually changing their repulsive ways.
Ellison seems too spineless to substantially counter any of this, or Clinton generally, in my opinion. And personally I’m still not convinced Sanders will really challenge them again, either.
Yea, I’m already feeling it coming up and having to choke it down. ;) But I agree with your assessment here. Except, if Ellison is so spineless, then why bother to put a candidate in opposition to him? Really, why not just try and get him under your thumb if you’re Clinton?
I think this has more to do with which candidates the DNC will support in 2018. That’s my guess. If Perez is in, then only candidates supporting the Clintons will receive financial DNC backing.
Keep an eye on which candidates Sanders/Ellison support for the next 18 months. There are 25 seats for the Democrats up for grabs and 8 Republican seats.
I think the Clinton-Obama camp has demonstrated that she does have Ellison under her thumb. He has made no substantial signs of disavowing her or the establishmentarian power structure, and did not refuse this ridiculous and condescending “Deputy” position.
Washington Post today treats Ellison’ defeat remarkably frankly:
“Why did Keith Ellison lose the DNC race?” by David Weigel.
This article is a red herring. Ellison was not rejected for his views on Palestine. He was rejected because he is from the Bernie wing.
oh gee. Somebody is going to have to do something about Angela Merkel who announced that only a 2 state solution will work. That’s actually a joke because, How can you have a state of Palestine if all the residents have been murdered and evicted and robbed of their property?
Um, no. From the article:
Of course, anyone from “the Bernie wing” is far, far more likely to hold positions on Palestinians that would cause revolting specimens such as Saban and Dershowitz to pronounce as they did. So in that sense — in the sense the two things are interrelated — it is true that Ellison’s sin could be characterized as his being from the Bernie wing.
Ellison’s rejection was necessary because – if he had
been installed – his actions would have revealed that he is
another Clintonist triangulater. This rejection allows the
democrat corruption to maintain the delusion that Ellison
would have been more progressive when his actions in
recent years clearly show that he is – first and foremost –
a member of the team which uses words to give a false
impression while they ultimately help crush progressive actions.
Bernie Sanders is another fake. That is why they betrayed their words
in their love of the corporate owned democrat machine.
They both are like a thin polish which is applied to a
life-crushing Wall Street machine.
this doesn’t even make sense.
had to be rejected because he would have been revealed a fraud….so rejecting him maintains his illusion!
dumbest analysis in the history of man.
just how is ellison fooling his millions of supporters with something that is so obvious to you…and why exactly does the party profit from pissing them off?
Ellison is typical of democrats.
He pretends to be progressive, but he then stays within the
militarized corporate parameters which are set by the corporate
owners.
If he were chair, he would have to be more blatant in his
corporate servitude. As it is, he can look like he lost his
chance to change the party even though he would NOT have
been allowed to make any real changes and he would implement
the same rubbish as any other Clintonite if he became chairman.
Thus, the delusional suckers will stay with the democrats because
Ellison and his fake progressive colleagues will work to keep
people from abandoning the corporate owned scheme by continuing
to pretend to be something they are not.
The fact that you cannot/will not comprehend the deviousness
which is central to both democrats and republicans alike does NOT
make you intelligent.
Activists here in Minneapolis/St. Paul know that Ellison refused to make a peep about the last Israeli invasion of Gaza in 2014, or the Israeli boarding of ships coming to Gaza’s aid in 2015. As one tweet above shows, he is against BDS, supports military aid to Israel and supports the bogus ‘2 state’ solution. So how low do you have to crawl? Pretty low.
Ellison is becoming a hack due to his long immersion in DP inner politics, given his quick salute for Perez by acclamation, acceptance of this bogus position and calls for ‘unity’ with the corporates.
Spot on. The DNC couldn’t even be bothered to pretend to have a change-agent at the helm.
I’m actually glad they did this. Nothing in their actions since the election suggests a connection to the reality of their situation. They are doing everything they can to help form a viable third-party movement. Bravo!
They are holding on tight to their Corporate agenda and snubbing their nose at the real progressives again. The Democrats are dead to me! To top it off, Podesta is entrenched in this as well. Pedophiles’ and murderers win again.
“Deputy chief?” In the old days, they just called it “court jester.” You can question Ellison’s sincerity all you want, this failure just goes to show that the Democratic party isn’t interested in even giving the illusion that it learned something from all this.
Looking forward to Mr. Wiltmellow rejoining these threads after a good night’s sleep.
“truth with ideology”
ROFLOL!
Dispatches from the United States of Mordor.
Here I am for you BM. Thank you for your contribution. You help when you mean to harm.
Here we see what happens when sly partisans use a part of a statement to stand for the whole of a statement.
This is a terrific example of the Wikileaks operation. People with an agenda cannot fairly represent the whole with a piece of the whole.
Here is the whole of my post. Anyone can judge for themselves. No one needs a boneheaded interpreter. Just a sense of fairness and a devotion to accuracy.
I have no reason to change anything I said earlier. Further, BM kindly makes my point for me.
There is a difference between those who adhere to an ideology and those who respect the truth for its own sake. The former look for “gotcha” moments. This is how they think — they’re not interested in the whole, in fairness or in honesty because they have determined the whole already. They don’t listen or analyze, they merely sensationalize.
It’s the world we live in.
It’s exhausting to disentangle an ideology because an ideology relies upon these sorts of decontextualizations for its meaning. Call it “anecdotalism.”
For example, (an example of Clinton’s bloodthirstiness) repeated often on this forum) — “we came, we saw, he died.” This silly statement covers a larger, more obvious pattern ..Clinton worked tirelessly to prevent yet another war in the ME, this time with Iran, to be led by the exact people who clamored for the invasion of Iraq . Why point that out? Why repeat the “we came …” so frequently? Why ignore the entirety of the Iran negotiations?
Because an agenda prevents honesty.
Here we again see a piece substituted for the whole. Twitter politics only reinforces this trend of “anecdotalism.” While it may appear more exhausting to “dig for the truth” (let me mix metaphors here) it’s not as difficult as keeping an untruth in play — like keeping a ball in a pinball game, bouncing from bumper to flipper but always ruled by gravity. An agenda must be constantly managed as the Republicans are now discovering with the ACA. How can you “repeal and replace” when your replacement doesn’t exist?
Oops.
When there’s such little substance, the rhetoric seems as compelling as the sounds and flashing lights of a pinball game. Onlookers marvel. Then they lose interest.
Eventually gravity wins.
To quote John Oliver from last night, “tick tock muthafuckers.”
An erudite post. Sums up quite nicely the tactics used by the people with an agenda on this forum. Not to mention that it’s quite a nice take down.
You seem to be something of an expert on the tactics used by people with an agenda.
Yeah, well, I bet even the Russians are looking pretty good to you frothing haters of moral deprivation, here.
*It would be a wonder if you haven’t slipped the surly bonds of partisan politics altogether … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ6j5tIS3ng
What is the truth? Others saw it slightly differently:
Are you sure you are digging for the truth? Only you can judge how tired you feel after writing your previous comment.
‘I’m tired … fighting truth with ideology is far more exhausting than digging for the truth’ – milt wiltmellow
It looks like my reply has been held up in the moderator’s queue because it contained two links. The Intercept rightly doesn’t want me to blind people by providing too many shining links all at once. So here it is with one link removed.
What is the truth? The New York Times saw it slightly differently:
Are you sure you are digging for the truth? Only you can judge how tired you feel after writing your previous comment.
‘I’m tired … fighting truth with ideology is far more exhausting than digging for the truth’ – milt wiltmellow
Well finally! A writer for the NYTimes isn’t the NYTimes, but still better a source than a sneer.
Why didn’t you lead with this?
After all, Mr. Sadjapour is a respected expert on Iran.
Where did Clinton say that? How does he know what Clinton thinks?
Or maybe the better question, “what did Clinton herself say?”
This NYTimes article was published on May 16, 2016, a year after the nuclear deal was signed and — for context — during the primary battle between Clinton and Sanders.
Since she didn’t comment for this article, the writer gave this quote from Clinton [October, 2015]
In short she argues that the terms of the treaty must be enforced for it to be credible. I don’t find that particularly bloodthirsty.
So whose account do you believe — the account of a participant or the account of an observer as selectively cited by another observer?
I try to make my judgments based on what people say, not on what people say about them … or people repeating what people have said about them.
But who really knows? Maybe she does run a child prostitution racket from the basement a pizza joint. Maybe she did kill Vince Foster. Maybe she did participate in an orgy with space aliens. Maybe she did vote for the AUMF because she wanted to see blood.
It seems to me — and this was the subject of my original response to DS — there’s a distinct, indisputable pattern of slanders going back decades. Consistently using Republican smears suggests an agenda rather than a respect for the truth.
In the end, none of us really knows. Probably even the principles don’t know. I’m relatively certain Trump has no idea that he’s actually crazy.
IMO, we should make our choices based on what we see, hear, and think rather than relying upon strangers who may or may not have an agenda. I have offered my observations on some indicators of what an agenda looks like. Sometime it’s obvious, sometimes not. If you want to hop up and down like a court jester, don’t be surprised when you’re not taken seriously.
“I try to make my judgments based on what people say…”
Hillary and her cohorts try to distance themselves from the human cost that result from the words they utter. The “we came, we saw, he died!” proclamation was, as horribly inhuman comments go, apparently not a judge-worthy moment for you? Me either.
Her actions, an the other hand, in their totality, and the resulting quagmires and human suffering as a result is what I judge her and the Democrats on.
I could care less for the motives behind what her and they (and by extension, her supporters like you) wanted or intended to do in the Middle East; what I care about are the results, and they are unconscionable and irrefutable and therefore unsupportable.
Instead of trying to make judgments based on what people say, try instead basing the reasons for supporting them and their agenda based on what the actual results of their policies are.
Well that’s certainly easy.
No war with Iran.
I’m good with that. Why aren’t you?
“No war with Iran.”
That is not only “what people say” it discounts the horrific actual results of her and the neoliberal Democrat policies.
I’m not good with that because the evidence of her/their actions outweigh any perceived future good results.
Why are you?
You could rewrite this sentence[s] using almost random nouns to make the same point.
E.g., “That is not only “what people say” it discounts the horrific actual results of her and the Bolshevik expansionist policies.
That is not only “what people say” it discounts the horrific actual results of her and the radical Islamist policies.
That is not only “what people say” it discounts the horrific actual results of her and the black lives matters revolutionary policies.
Why bother to say something with such righteous anger if you don’t care sufficiently to define the objects of your fury? You’re like a child with a hammer — you’re not building anything, you’re just banging.
But then I suppose you can point out that that crapper tweeting idiot in the White House does the same thing. “See? You ain’t gotta be a smart guy to be a wise guy.”
“You could rewrite this sentence[s] using almost random nouns to make the same point.”
That is the point, you fool – that there are so many things that have already been discussed here and in the news that reflect the failings of the neoliberal policies of the Democrats that no matter how often or to what extent someone spells them out to you, doing so is simply pointless.
These failings (warmongering, regime change, bankster-ism…) are not just peccadillo’s that I and many like me can just allow to continue in our names; it’s morally repugnant behavior that has no business being in a progressive, humane political party.
That you still align yourself with these acts is your failing, not ours; and your alluding to those that call you out on these morally untenable stances as “wise-guys” who think they are “smart guys” who are then somehow the equivalent of the idiot tweeting in the White House is childish deflection in the extreme.
I don’t necessarily believe either. What Mrs. Clinton says is relevant, but obviously constrained by politics. What is cited in the NYT by an observer coincides with my own observations. Mr. Obama spent real political capital and has taken a lot of heat for the deal with Iran. Mrs. Clinton distanced herself from the agreement in a number of ways (as can easily be verified by anyone who cares to research the issue) and was not the Secretary of State when the agreement was reached.
Mrs. Clinton’s statements on Iran often appeared crafted to play well with Israel and Saudi Arabia. Whether she actually wanted a war with Iran – as you say – who really knows. You lump everyone who disputes your assertions together, but I have never claimed Mrs. Clinton was morally depraved. My issue with Mrs. Clinton on Iran, as on numerous other issues is that she never took a stand, but attempted to play all sides. She thereby lost a lot of credibility.
Whether she would have been better or worse than President Trump is irrelevant now.
Who knows?
We can infer from her Saudi donations in the millions and the backing by every leading neo-con out there what she would do.
The “no fly zone” over Syria made it very clear her intention to start a war with Russia.
Bingo!
This is a legitimate critique and — IMO — a far more accurate explanation of her loss than any I’ve seen presented by GG or any responder so far.
If people don’t know what you care about, how can they trust you?
Thank you Milton. I have long noted and lament the reductio ad absurdum paired with ad hominem being a favored tactic by buffoons interested only in asserting the primacy of their views, or the “truly, awful, terrible, not so good views” of others with whom they disagree.
To quote John Oliver from last night, “tick tock muthafuckers.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEGpriv2TAc
gravity there are 2 centers of gravity in humans
1. not wanting to work but live large
2. recognition that one is worthy and deserving of what one has and aspires to
and they are at opposite ends of the spectrum of achievement
Well, I am ready for a nap.
Such is the world of science; there’s never one right answer.
you’re telling me; the wife’s got butter on one nipple and the other has oatmeal.
All I did was say “yes” to more coffee.
“No one needs a boneheaded interpreter. ”
It is imperative that boneheads be given a boneheaded interpreter.
Otherwise they may implicate themselves in matters of which they hold no knowledge.
Yeah, well, Milt’mellow has you pegged, benitoe:
I don’t hate moral deprivation at all. I enjoy Mr. Wiltmellow’s posts immensely.
Hahaha … I get it.
Another bon mot.
Had you cared, you would have dug just a little deeper.
Let me offer the entire quote to which I referred. (But how would you know what I referred to? Well besides my citing a portion of it?)
I’m called indecent, a racist, and morally depraved and then told that if I would commit suicide, I’d be of more use. Why? Because I ridiculed (or more precisely I intended to ridicule) Trump’s shallow incendiaries.
But your simple-minded bon mot is obviously more important to you.
So … thanks, I suppose.
Thank you for again reinforcing my message.
Me too. .. milt’mellow is like a magician in a linguistic circus show.
*we should send him on the road w/ new DNC chair Perez. Afaict, Perez, and deputy dog Ellison, are going to be taking it (i.e. ‘Democrat values’) to the streets. All fifty states, this time, including Hazard, Ky.
The peoples in the street just don’t know how wonderful democratic values have been lo these past eight years. That’s the problem.
taking it to the streets … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o_umKOTXIs
As if it really matters.
Ellison would have done what Perez will do
because they are both on the same team –
just as the democrats and the republicans are both on the same team.
The corrupt complicity would have been more obvious with
Ellison when he ended up again revealing his devotion to
“Clintonists”ic corruption. So now, the delusional “progressive” (NOT)
democrat fools will be able to continue to believe that there are
still “progressives” in the lying democrat party.
A SHAM election for a SHAM party of corporate whores.
i dont believe you are correct in your assessment about Mr. Ellison.
Go try to convince all of the corpses which Mr. Ellison has
helped to slaughter in Libya, Syria, and elsewhere. He is a phony
who, like Sanders, turned his back on his own Supposed
beliefs and proudly supported a warmongering, obfuscating,
devious corporate liar (Clinton) for president because being a
member of a corporate owned party is more important than
the fake posturing which is necessary to keep the suckers in line.
Ellison is lousy as long as he is a member of the club.
Ellison opposes the anti Zionist BDS, argued for a no fly zone in Syria, and is eager now to call the Democrats unified even though the Party still orbits the Clinton center and is corrupted by corporatism and warmongering. He is suspiciously a prime candidate for co-opting and de-fanging actual progressives, especially as he has no real fight in him. I’d say Clark has a point.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/02/democratic-party-orthodoxy-in-action-hit-with-some-serious-clinton-blame-cannons.html
Consider the corporate Democrat view: “Who cares if the ship is sinking, as long as we’re at the helm? We still get our perks and kickbacks.”
This bears repeating:
The Democratic Party will, then, remain a smoking pile of rubble, for they cannot win without us.
They don’t need to win – they just need to be perceived as the only other option in the corrupt duopoly.
The continued denial by the dems may be sheer stupidity in the larger framework of success but in the hear and now appeasement to the funders, there is a sudden swarm of dem defenders in this blog hinting at anti-semitism accusations against any who speak out in protest against the newly renewed party. Given the elixer that basted the campaign and the recent convention, wont know if the foam at the mouth is exuberance or rabies until other symptoms develop.
yup!
You would think the DNC would’ve learned its lesson. Think again.
http://www.inquisitr.com/3992467/dnc-disrespecting-bernie-sanders-and-arrogance-lost-2016-election-not-russia/
This abuse and bludgeoning of the American people by political whores and criminals is akin to wife beating. These political whores and criminals represent wallstreet thieves. Are you sitting down?
The wallstreet criminals received bonuses recently in or for 2015. If you add up all the earnings of all minimum wage employees in the US for the same year, that amount is $14 billion dollars. Wallstreet thieves received bonuses, exclusive of salaries, of $28,000,000,000 (billion).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K8bf6dbYt4 marker 7:00+
inset recording of Mark Blyth
absolutely. I dont think the busy family-raising stuck-in-traffic no-time average American realises the ship is sinking and that the elites have possession of the only life-boats.
Government Pensions $4,069 / person
Government Health Care + $4,764 / person
Government Education + $3,293 / person
National Defense + $2,627 / person
Government Welfare + $1,461 / person
All Other Spending + $5,379 / person
Total Government Spending $21,636 / person
Federal Deficit + $1,547 / person
segmenting the population into age-groups of 20 year brackets i calculated the debt per family of 2.5 (i think that’s low) and calc’d ~$80k per family. Sinking? Is it possible we are breathing water and unaware?
In other news, from the Keiser Report, other govs buying gold are paying off debt. This would mean the US debt machine, believing that more debt is a winner, will have to lower interest rates to below zero. Wallstreet thieves being what they are, could probably do that by putting the DOW at 40,000 before the year’s end.
A member of the progressive caucus losing to another member of the progressive caucus is like one klansman losing to another. Either way a racist extremist that openly threatens and dehumanizes “white” people for votes won.
Prattled GilG, house idiot @ TI, below:
Here’s a commenter who can’t even be straight about a person’s (me) education, complaining about his words being twisted!
Dispatches from the United States of Mordor.
what falsehood did I tell about your education Gert?
Gert, no on you need to care about gives a shit what a Zionist hack like Gil says about your education.
Are you on Twitter? If so follow me please, I’d like to exchange email. I’m @MonaHol. We could exchange addresses by Direct Message if we follow each other.
My twitter account is dormant, Mona. But try my Google account? Or leave a comment on my Mordor blog. I will respond if we have a line of communication (of course!)
and again I ask what falsehood have I told about your education Gert?
I think you and Mona teaming up is a good idea. Maybe you can come up with an approach that isn’t all smears and name calling. Good luck with that.
Not rising to your bait anymore, GilG.
Bye.
You claimed I told a falsehood about your education. How is saying what this falsehood is rising to my bait? Why don’t you just admit that your charge was false to begin with.
OKey doke. email sent.
Personally, I make my judgments about the kind of education that actually matters based upon the evidence of knowledge and reasoning ability exhibited. After all, we all know utter morons with doctorates and polymaths who never bothered with formal schooling.
Gert’s high on my list.
Gil, you just seem to be working from a script written for sellers of used Zionism and and losing your cool with people who aren’t buying it.
Thanks, Doug.
please do tell Doug how I have lost my cool? Mona and Gert are the ones name calling and making things up not me?
Also just to clarify is Gert high on your list of “morons with doctorates” or “polymaths with no formal schooling” ? Because Gert does claim formal schooling so it sounds like you mean he is high on your moron list, then again you are trying to defend him so I would think you would put him on your other list but Gert would have to take issue with that because he does claim he has formal schooling.
^^^ Not cool.
Oh come on Doug an expert at cool such as your self should be able to do better than that.
I violated my own policy here today, but it’s best to usually ignore Gil. He virtually never responds to the substance of criticisms of Zionism. His ploy is to misdirect the discussions, and drag everyone into the weeds with endless discussions of defending themselves from his accusations that they’re liars, defending their education, and yada, yada.
We all err when we cooperate with that. (Altho granted, he walked right into one that no one could expect me to resit.) But in the main, except on those rare occasions when he makes a cogent argument about something substantive, it’s best to ignore him.
You violate your policy every time Mona. Let me tell you how our discussions actually go:
You post a claim out of your propaganda bag.
I find that you misrepresented something or told and out right false hood.
This puts you in full on bonkers mode and you start calling me names and make accusations about me that you can’t back up.
Then you usually start crap flooding the thread with more unrelated propaganda because you can’t back up your false accusations. Then you make a statement how you won’t engage me anymore because I am a tricky zionist.
How did I walk into anything, you admitted something I claimed about you was true. After you falsely made the claim about me. Nice going Mona and thanks for giving me the chance to post my reply again.
I’m not going for convincing the people you care about. It’s the ones who are capable of thinking independently I prefer to reach.
Why did Ellison lose? Racism. He’s black and a Muslim. Automatically that means he supports Farrakan (because all Muslims do), is anti Semitic and wants to kill all white people. And other ridiculous garbage.
The DNC Power Elite (still rich and white) are scared that the neocons would endlessly hype a MUSLIM DNC chairman as evil. They won’t publically admit this, because they’re scared of being called racist if they do. Just like many of them not criticizing Obama. Just because Obama’s black means no one can dare to criticize him using facts? I totally disargee with that.
Now Perez will be the token head and do as he’s told.
Damn shame… missed out on selecting a good man because of their bigotry and bias.
RIGGED AGAIN? Second round after Ellison received additional support.
from http://thehill.com/homenews/news/321210-how-perez-edged-ellison-for-dnc-chair
Fear the WiFi would give out? Plan B?
The exhibit halls at the Atlanta Convention Center range fro 96,000 square feet, through 55,000 square feet, all the way down to the dinky little 16,000 square foot hall they use to seat 1,300 people for banquets. The idea that a few hundred busy WiFi users could overload the system (in 2017) is simply preposterous.
If the system couldn’t handle much larger loads than that, they’d have a very damned difficult time booking conventions in the 21st century.
do tell!
so after using the wifi in the first round, and maybe getting word that Ellison was gaining more support, someone suggested that they forget the wifi (close down the data feed) and print paper because they suddenly became concerned about the wifi which was working fine.
just seems to me that whoever said “we’re going plan B, paper, shut off the feed” was looking for a solution to another problem.
Money rules the world and Amerika people. Bottom line, rich elites in Amerika will never cede power to anyone not in their chosen class. This means the war party, consisting of the republican and democrat wings. Thoughts of and attempts to take over the democrat or republican wings of the war party are futile and a colossal waste of time. If you want any chance of electing a government that will serve the people then tell the war party to take a hike and support candidates who believe in a mass traction economic agenda not based on war. That would be the Green Party. Supporting democrats or republicans will doom you.
The brilliance of the new DNC Dear Leader:
“Frankly, what we need to be looking at is whether this election was rigged by Donald Trump and his buddy, Vladimir Putin.”
It was either the Russians, the Illuminati or the Lizard people. I’m sure of it!
The Queen wuz robbed!
+10! (as always, Doug!)
Dispatches from the United States of Mordor.
The Power of the Putin scares them.
The Power of the Putin scares them.
The Power of the Putin scares them.
If the dems cannot exorcise the Putin, their fear is that the Putin will remain in the Donald in 2020. In anticipation of that loss in 2020, they are simply preparing their excuse.
Hahaha, good one.
The Republicans would NEVER negotiate with a foreign adversary to steal a presidential election.
When Nixon sabotaged Johnson’s peacetalks with North Vietnam in 1968, it had nothing to do with the 1968 election. Johnson wasn’t even running. Besides, you could hardly call the South Vietnamese adversaries, right?
Nobody ever proved Reagan associates negotiated with Iran to keep the US hostages before the 1980 elections, so that doesn’t count. Besides, if a nation becomes your trading partner in the next few years, they’re hardly “adversaries.” So not then either.
Of course in 2000 everyone thought Jeb Bush first depressed opposition votes by culling voter roles prior to the election. But that wasn’t cheating. And so what if some other votes got lost or miscounted. That happens. Plus, so what if they five members of the Supreme Court awarded the election to Bush. They were honest and decent justices who refused to let partisan politics get in the way. It’s only a vicious rumor pushed by that famous loser Al Gore that Republican staffers staged a false riot during the recount. Republicans would NEVER cheat and it’s just fake news to say otherwise.
It’s outright McCarthyism, to impugn the motives of Republicans! There’s only one truly corrupt party in the United States. Everybody knows that.
Beside, Florida isn’t exactly a foreign adversary, is it.
So you’re absolutely correct in your sarcastic implication.
Republicans would NEVER, EVER, steal an election by collaborating with a foreign adversary.
What’s wrong with these crooked Hillary™ loving DemoRATs?
Are they crazy or just stupid?
SMH
Well, the two options are hardly mutually exclusive. . .
Whatever else they may be, they are, sure as shit, in the deepest mire of denial in recent political history.
good post Milton. some only believe past performance is an indicator when it reinforces their position otherwise it doesn’t count. All of the sudden the most important thing for the folks that haven’t voted Democrat anyway is who the DNC chair is.
Hahaha … its quite refreshing for me when someone else points out this little pool of Intercept vomitus. It’s been over three months since the election and they can’t talk about anything other than Clinton and the Democrats.
It’s like they’re trying to convince themselves their heads ain’t broke while there’s a hatchet stuck in their skulls.
Great post, Milton!
Milton
So what you’re arguing is that is widely known that the GOP can and will continue to collude with foreign “adversaries” to rig US elections.
And not withstanding that obvious truth, the Democratic party doesn’t have the credibility in the eyes of the majority of the American people and can’t capitalize on it in any meaningful way by fielding candidates and a policy agenda that appeals to the overwhelming majority of same such that they consistently put themselves to get elections stolen out from underneath them by them by the diehard 35% of American that vote GOP come hell, high water, or blatant corruption?
That’s your argument?
Thanks for making our point about how pathetic the Democratic party is.
All you’ve proved is they don’t have the credibility to run as the anti-corruption party in America because they are too busy engaging in exactly the same corruption as the GOP in every conceivable way from lobbying to the revolving door, with the one exception: they refuse to play political hardball and lie as shamelessly as the GOP does when it comes election time or collude with foreign powers to tilt elections in their favor to solidify their political dominance via gerrymandering over the long haul, because . . . reasons I guess.
Again, thank you for making our point.
They have neither the stomach, backbone, messaging capacity, credibility or policy agenda to blow out the GOP in every contest (despite polling demonstrating the issues they nominally run on are more popular with the vast majority of Americans) and instead put themselves in the position to have elections stolen from them by a percentage point or two here and there. One of three immutable truths flow from that–either elections are a scam in this country, or the Democratic party doesn’t know what it’s doing, or doesn’t actually care if it loses.
And yet you want everyone to demonstrate fealty and loyalty to them as politicians and human beings? On what basis, they are marginally less bad policy-wise than the GOP? Again, thank you for making our point.
Simple solution–run on FDR’s Second Bill of Rights. Mean it, fight for it every day unequivocally, demonstrate a little solidarity as a “party”, and stop throwing the base under the bus and running away from them every time the GOP calls you un-American, a commie or hating free markets. Fuck them.
Either learn to fight, and stop trying to have your cake and eat it too by being the bought and paid for servants of the oligarchs, and maybe you’d build a long-term winning political coalition that would kick the GOP into the dustpan of history like FDRs coalition did for decades.
But you’re never going to establish credibility with the American voters again, consistently, if you can’t deal with the linked reality below and by fellating every millionaire, billionaire Wall Street big business CEO for donations to keep your personal sinecure safe in Congress:
https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
Screw them, and screw you.
FDR welcomed the scorn of the fuckheads that the Democratic party is purportedly too worried about hurting their precious donor fee fees, or being to hurtful to a legal fiction (“corporations”), or offending hyper-rich Zionists or whomever the fuck else gives them money too feed the lobbyists and consultants. That’s how you win in America.
Bernie showed how to fund a campaign in American in 2016.
FDR showed you how you appeal to a broad coalition of Americans for decades.
Not like the roadmap hasn’t been laid down. So the Democratic party has only itself to blame not the voters who think they are pathetic craven hypocritical losers who wouldn’t know how to fight a fight if Muhammad Ali had personally trained each and every one of them.
You can’t do those to simple things and are content to triangulate your party into historical oblivion, then you deserve it and nothing more.
Hahaha
You head’s broke.
All well said, rr, but Milton, RMD (and Gil for reasons of Zionism) prefer that the Democratic Party continue to be a Smoking Pile of Rubble.
Their endless “fuck yous” to the left-wing base continue, and that means they continue mostly to lose. It really is that simple: they retain their neoliberal purity, but we won’t pour our time, energy or money into campaigns for the DNC status quo. Simple as that. So, on they go into oblivion.
The Podesta/DNC emails rob them of cover to claim we are “conspiracy theorists” when they pull what we know they will on all progressives sent to primary the neoliberals. We have smoking guns and are not putting up with shit one bit longer.
The neoliberals, not us, are choosing to burn the party right down to the ground, rather than make any move to the left.
Very well. Let the destruction continue. Smoking. Pile. Rubble. [shrug]
Beautiful, RR. Milton and a many other New Dems are in deep and apparently irreversible denial.
You hit a nerve there, Doug. RMD, Milton and the othe neoliberal Hillarybots hate your insightful observations. Them, and the rancid Zionist Gil, who hates Ellison for the same reasons Saban does. A right fine motley crew to have against you. Kudos.
Oh please Mona. I haven’t said anything negative about Ellison. After getting his ass handed to him Doug could use better help than you just going into your usual name calling routine.
Pfft. “Calling names” is often logically valid. You’ve been told this before. When the issue is credibility, of which you wild-eyed, duplicitous Zionism completely robs you. That you have contempt for both Doug and myself only inures to our own credibility.
No in your case Mona name calling is only an attempt to mask not having a cogent argument.
I don’t have contempt for you and Doug, as a matter of fact you both provide me with great entertainment value. It’s fun to tweak the noses of such pompous hypocrites. It’s you that have contempt for me. It’s because I continue to point out your hypocrisy and falsities. I have no credibility problems. You’re the one who posted a lie about that article not me. Do I have to post the link yet again? You’re the one who now is posting false claims about my feelings concerning Ellison with nothing to back it up Mona. What false claims have I made?
One morsel of truth from the Zionist hack:
No on I care about will believe I posted any lies, so prattle away on that theme as long as you like.
Well I guess it’s the ideologue code or something. Don’t believe anything that isn’t called the truth from up on high. Besides I not going for convincing the people you care about. It’s the ones who are capable of thinking independently I prefer to reach.
Who cares about history when there are Hillarybots to vanquish?
Great job Doug.
We’ll make America great again no matter who it hurts … especially when we drive those damned Hillarybots back wherever they came from.
Probably Mexico or ISIS.
They’re all Baaaaaaad hombres and Nasty hombrettes.
IIIo O oIII
>The Republicans would NEVER negotiate with a foreign adversary to steal a presidential election.
No, but there isn’t a single shred of evidence to suggest they collaborated with the Russians this time.
>It’s outright McCarthyism, to impugn the motives of Republicans!
The McCarthyism is inventing attacks of an opponent without providing any evidence, especially, when the American imperialist state is gearing for war near the border of another imperialist state.
>It’s been over three months since the election and they can’t talk about anything other than Clinton and the Democrats.
Considering that the Clintons and the Democrats are powerful political machines that lie, steal, support imperialism, racism, opposition to worker rights and support American hegemony, it is the duty of decent, moral people to talk about it, no matter how uncomfortable it may make you.
>We’ll make America great again no matter who it hurts
The Hillbots pretending to care about who gets hurt is mildly amusing. If you cared, you wouldn’t be a Hillbot, to begin with.
>Probably Mexico or ISIS.
Considering Queen Hillary did enjoy butchering Muslim people in the Middle East with the drone strikes she signed off on and ISIS enjoys doing the same, there’s no difference between the two. In b4 “intentions matter”.
>They’re all Baaaaaaad hombres and Nasty hombrettes.
Admitting that you’re morally depraved for supporting a capitalist, vicious racist who threw Black people in prison for money and called them superpredators, and bombs Muslims is the first step to recovery. Unfortunately, us POC and victims of American imperialism have no time guide you on your way to becoming decent human beings. You’d be of more use if you threw yourself off a bridge. <3
I have neither the time nor the interest to respond.
It doesn’t matter what I write. Every frothing hater of moral deprivation here have said the exact same you’ve said … except with differently words.
I doubt any of the never-Clinton democrats really believe what they write just as I think you don’t believe what you write. People who respect truth tend to dig through the garbage to find it. People with little respect for truth don’t look beyond their own set of assumptions; people who respect the truth also give others leeway because they know how difficult truth can be to obtain — and how easily it can be lost
People with little respect for truth demand agreement for that is their only and surest certainty — it must be true because everyone agrees. People with little respect for truth seek exceptions — they demand that the one stand for the many. Again, if you have what you want, why look further?
People who respect truth don’t have to insult and slander to make a point. People with little respect for the truth are less swayed by peer pressure because they’re guided by their own light.
I’m tired and ready for bed. I won’t change your mind — but I’ll guarantee you this. fighting truth with ideology is far more exhausting than digging for the truth.
Keep fighting the good fight. Your ideology is fairly feeble – it boils down to tribalism and supporting the Democrats no matter what. But it does provide hope for people to cling to, unlike the truth that both major parties are out to screw them and have rigged the game so meaningful challenge to their power is impossible.
So I wish you success in your fight against the truth.
>People with little respect for truth don’t look beyond their own set of assumptions; people who respect the truth also give others leeway because they know how difficult truth can be to obtain — and how easily it can be lost
“Please, hold my hand and be forgiving while I support people who destroy, maim, rape Brown and Black bodies through White supremacy”.
>I doubt any of the never-Clinton democrats really believe what they write just as I think you don’t believe what you write.
Whitesplain elsewhere.
Did anyone think the burnieite faction (i.e. The democrat voter) would prevail? The democrat party is the epitome of dirty deals in back rooms selling out the electorate every time. I do not see any democrat tea party with the Clinton and obamo crime families and they’re currupt cronies in place in the party.
Burnie sold the voters out at the democrat convention last year, he has another vacation house to show for it but his voters got screwed. When the democrat voters who still feel the burn come around they will see only President Trump is fighting party cronyism in both parties. He is taking on the entrenched beauracracies and most importantly keeping his promises to the voters. While the President is no commie like Burnie sanders, at least he is fighting for the average legal American citizen. For the rejected democrat voter, what have you got to lose?
The day Donald Trump gets rid of the Goldman Sachs (NBA) starting lineup from his cabinet that will be the day I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Until then, Trump does not and will not represent the people…………….
Bernie Sanders is not a commie any more than Donald Trump is. Bernie is a socialist by measure of social meaning common care as a common standard of living for all people as Americans in the wealthiest country on the planet which deprives 40%+ of the people for lack of social instituted values. This also makes President Trump a socialist.
For the rejected democrat voter, what have you got to lose? Now that Americans have lost everything? For one thing, “we” have to lose the easability to get back what we lost. We can lose another 4 years of our political lives. We lost 8 years with Dumya, 6 years with Obama, that’s 14 years out the window.
But burnie did burn democrat voters right? The democrat party is run by the elites right? Burnie is was and will all ways be a socialist, you can paint a pig any color you like but it’s still a pig…
All Democratic presidential candidates in 2016 had warts, but none promoted right-wing extremism as Trump has. There’s no evidence that Trump’s doing anything for the average legal American citizen. (Are there “illegal American citizens”? That’s an indicative distinction you make, as if all citizens are not equal.) It’s sad to have so much confusion on the left (less so in the center, which is perpetually confused), but your pitch for Democrats to abandon all hope out of personal pique is downright pathetic.
The Sanders wing of the party needs to realize that not everyone needs to agree with them. Ellison got within 35 votes. They should be pleased. The Democratic Party needs to hear all voices and the new team is a good compromise. Perez has provided good administrative skills in all the jobs he’s held. The Sanders people have painted him as the choice of big corporate donors. They live in glass houses.
oh no you dont
SANDERS IS MY BEST CHOICE.
hillary lost
perez is a wallstreet loving LOSER marking time for FAKE 2-FACES hillary to RERUN in 2020.
You might fool people on other blogs but i think maybe you are fooling yourself here.
But i know what happened. After you got perez in, you snagged Keith in the hopes you can turn him and then turn him out. And someone said “That takes care of that problem, for the time being.”. Then you all wondered about the reaction – and someone asked “What are they saying on THE INTERCEPT”? The person tasked to read this blog reported back, “It doesnt look good”. Then the meeting director said “Ok everyone, we have our work cut out for us. You know what to do. Let’s get to it.”
and here you are.
Representative Keith Ellison “ACCEPTS AN UNOFFICIAL POSITION OF DNC DEPUTY CHAIR”? That clearly means he sold out. And since this IS THE CASE, why is any upset that he lost the race? Regardless of whether he won or not, amerikan policy vis a vis the Middle East would still be EXACTLY THE SAME. Move along people, nothing to see here………………
Bernie accepted the position of enthusiastic Hillary Clinton endorser in Philadelphia, and his supporters weren’t upset.
And THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN UPSET WITH THAT and henceforth gone to the Green Party. The sooner that people in Amerika realize that the republicans and democrats are the two wings of the same war party, then, and only then could the empire be dissolved and a true republic be born……………..
Bernie Sanders only “ran” for president to raise money. See his new 600,000 dollar house and acreage he and his university wrecking wife bought after the campaign…………………
Donald Trump is the real live version of Emperor Palpatine with the Congress being impotent and lost. And Bernie Sanders endorsing Hillary Clinton is partially responsible for making that happen……………..
Zionists lie, Part 4875
Below, hasbara troll Jack Green, post yet another lie, one he’s seen me correct myriad times, to wit:
The original source from which the NYT excerpt is taken is a London-based journal. As becomes clear when one reads the entire piece, the sorry state of Ashkenazim Jews in 1978 Jerusalem was attributed to “fanatical improvidence” and to “rabbinical pedantry” that prevented their working in common trades. Moreover, the Sephardim, who had financial support coming from co-coreligionists all over the world, would not share with the impoverished Ashkenazim, thus contributing to the latter’s falling into “abject wretchedness.”
Bigotry from Muslims and Christians was mentioned, but was not hardly cited as the main or only problem.
The particulars of this example are not so important, the import lies in it being an example ofZionists lying and/or distorting to cover up the vile and terroristic crimes they have long committed against the Palestinians.
Nice to see you finally read the article the last time we discussed this you claimed the Jews wouldn’t work.
Hey, kids! You, too can learn useful “tradecraft!” See the Social Media Internship page.
Well we know where you learned the make false accusation when caught in a lie trick Doug. Tailgunner Joe McCarthy.
My friends in my hands I hold a list of known habarists. Tell it Doug. Too funny.
Oh g-d, you still ‘ere?
Dispatches from the United States of Mordor.
Why? Did you want to tell false stories about your education again? Go ahead Gert I won’t expose you again. After all it’s been done and besides I don’t want you crying to the moderator again. Their job is tough enough without having to protect snowflakes from crying that the mean man exposed their bs.
You’re a LIAR who’d lie about the colour of the sky, if it suited your rancid Zionism. My education isn’t a story, it’s a fact. If you lie about this what else are you willing to lie about?
Yes, I will shop you to a moderator if you question my identity again, Ziofascist.
what lie about your education did I tell snowflake? how did I question your identity?
Gert, I don’t read Gil as claiming you aren’t commenting as yourself; it’s only all those insane accusations that half of this board, including you, was really me that got the mod action.
Pissing at other comments about their educational bona fides is standard Internet fighting and snarking. Just trust that the reasonable folk here have Gil’s number and don’t give it another thought. He calls me a “liar” 20 times a thread and I don’t give a rat’s ass. Gert, he’s a Zionist hack; that dumpster-truck full of nasty misdirection is all he’s got. Ignore it.
Er, um, once again you are confused and/or make shit up. (But you are a hardocre Zionist and that is, after all, what so many of them do.) As I stated above, unwillingness to work was a huge factor, to wit: ‘“fanatical improvidence” and to “rabbinical pedantry” that prevented their working in common trades. ‘
Jack was lying by gross omission, making it look like Jews in 1878 Jerusalem were immiserated primarily due to Xtian and Muslim bigotry. It was at least as much a by-product of rabbinical prohibitions on work as well as some Jews unwilling to share corporate funds with all.
Why, Gil, do you suppose Jack constantly omits those highly salient facts?
There is nothing in the article that could allow you to draw the conclusion that it was as least as least as much a product of rabbinical prohibitions as bigotry. As a matter of fact if you go back further in the article it says that it was only the Shepardic Jews fell under the authority of the rabbis, while the Ashkenazi Jews fell under the authority of the British.
<blockquote They numbered about 10,000, divided into the Sephardim mostly descendants of Jewish refugees for Spain and Portugal, but now subjects of Turkey , and the Ashkenazim, who are pilgrims or children of pilgrims from Germany, Russia and the Danubian provinces. The Russian Jews fell to the British Consul’s willing care in the time of war. The Sephardim headed by their chief rabbi, who exercise both a civil and religious jurisdiction , have certain privileges from the Turkish Government though subject to humiliating exactions, such as the yearly payment for leave to pray and “wail” beneath the wall of the Temple inclosure. </blockquote
I have a question for you Mona. Why did you leave out the salient fact that Jews were required to pay a special tax to be allowed to pray as Jews?
None of that is “salient” to Jack’s quote purporting to demonstrate why the Ashkenazim Jews of Jerusalem were impoverished. What is directly salient is :
You didn’t say “boo” any of the myriad times Jack omitted that. How like the duplicitous Zionist you and Jack both are.
Rather than address the horrific material demonstrating the terrorism, virtual Nazism and depravity of 19th and 20th century Zionists, you prefer to misdirect with ranting about purported liars, screeching about the educational bona fides of others, purported objections to name-calling & on and on.
Anything to avoid addressing the copiously documented depravity of the ideology to which you adhere.
Oh and here is your original quote which specifically says: The Ashkenasim would not work
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/israelis-want-soldier-executed-wounded-palestinian-suspect-camera-go-free/?comments=1#comment-333412
Why did Jack leave that out? Why do you not call Jack out for having done so, repeatedly?
Yep it works if you add in words that weren’t there [Ashkenazim] Mona. But if you don’t add those words and go back and read what came before it in the proper context it shows that once again you are telling falsehoods.
‘“fanatical improvidence” and to “rabbinical pedantry” that prevented their working in common trades. Moreover, the Sephardim, who had financial support coming from co-coreligionists all over the world, would not share with the impoverished Ashkenazim, thus contributing to the latter’s falling into “abject wretchedness.”’
Why did Jack omit all of that, and why did you not object when he repeatedly did?
The salient point is that the article specifically says the Ashkenasim were not under the jurisdiction of the rabbis.
“The Russian Jews fell to the British Consul’s willing care in the time of war. The Sephardim headed by their chief rabbi, who exercise both a civil and religious jurisdiction , have certain privileges from the Turkish Government though subject to humiliating exactions, such as the yearly payment for leave to pray and “wail” beneath the wall of the Temple inclosure. ”
Face it Mona once again you prove to be a totally unreliable source of information. Not sure if it’s that you have in inability to read and comprehend or you are just a liar who will say anything rather than admit they were wrong.
Nothing remotely salient about the crap you merely WANT to be salient. JACK’s point was about Muslims supposedly impoverishing Jews by not hiring them. When in reality the article says:
Like Jack, like Alan Dershowitz, like CAMERA and like virtually all ardent Zionist everywhere, you are a dishonest hack in service to your depraved ideology. When materiel is offered that it would be too difficult to distort and/or to unpleasant for you to deal with (like Zionist use of 12-year-old girls to blow up buses of Palestinian civilians) you ignore it; then you simply hurl endless crap about me and other being “liars” or attack our educational attainments or otherwise misdirect with insults and non sequiturs.
No one intelligent and reasonable will fail to see exactly who and what you are.
The power of Zionist-Apartheid-Israel is amazing, it controls most of the Republican and Democrat politicians and followers. There is no hope for the US, it is sick.
Perez is just another puppet of the Clintons, Obama, and the establishment. The corruption continues. It works for Trump.
Esther Meshoe, daughter of conservative South African parliamentarian, Dr. Kenneth Meshoe, slammed the BDS movement as nothing but false propaganda. “The truth is there is no apartheid in Israel,”
Ellison should tell them to stick it and start the Progressive National Committee instead. Is that a dumb idea?
Sounds good to me. How about a Sanders/Ellison ticket? After 4 years of the current “administration”, they’ll win in a landslide!
He just wasn’t quite the corporatist that Perez was. Perez made his bones in the Obama Administration. The race-baiting, race-dividing Democrats decided that a Hispanic was worth more than a Black American Muslim.
They both have the devilish hipster goat.
In which of your cited books on Satanism may one read about this “devilish hipster goat” issue? Has your recommended author, Frtiz Springmeier, addressed that particular aspect of the Satanism problem?
And what is it’s significance?
Mona hearts the New York Times.
Non sequitur. That doesn’t explain how you learned about “the devilish hipster goat,” nor does it explain what significance you attach to it. If it wasn’t from one of your Springmeier books on Satanism, then what book or article informed you on this topic?
Well?
Zionists used children to murder Palestinians
Israel was founded by Jewish terrorists, who used children. The extent to which the Zionist narrative so many of swallowed, especially those of us over 35 or so, is an utter fairy tale is hard to overstate. Thomas Suarez has published a must-read book: State of Terror. He recently gave a speech to London’s House of Lords and describes how Zionism, in the first half of the 20th century, was widely and accurately perceived as antisemitic, and beloved by antisemites.
But the most horrifying revelations from Suarez concern the Zionists’ terror campaign against Arabs, using Jewish kids, and menacing and killing dissident, morally uncompromised Jews:
Whole speech here.
From the outset, Zionism was a fascist, terrorist enterprise. Additional documentation on that point from Albert Einstein in due course.
Zionists lie, Part 4,874
Hasbrar troll Jack Green posts, for the dozenth time, what he knows is lie; I’ve documented it is a lie many times, and yet he continues. It is a lie he procured from the lying Zionist, Alan Dershowtiz. To wit, spews Mr. Green:
That falsehood is lifted from a Dershowitz book in which Dershowtiz plagiarized the same error from an author named Joan Peters.
At best, Consul Young was passing along a FWIW note from Some Unknown Guy named “A. Benisch.”
Zionists lie. Dershowitz plagiarized and lied. And Jack Green lies. Zionists lie constantly. It is literally what they do.
Jack Green: Why do you keep telling this lie ehre, since you’ve been corrected some 6-8 times?
The cons and thieves (and murderers) that are the zions do so because they want to diminish search references back to this site from search engines. It’s just technical. They figure they can create enough counterpoint that anyone new to the subject in the future will just throw up their arms. This ploy to discredit anything other than their officially branded authoritative con – which they are now busy putting together – is for future generations, nothing local.
Resolution 3379 branded zionism for the hate group it is but then the zion criminals managed to get it retracted, no idea how. But they shall achieve hate group and terrorist status.
Are you against racial discrimination?
Resolution 3379 was false.
This resolution claims “any doctrine of racial differentiation of superiority is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust, and dangerous.” It is a response to racial discrimination by governments around the world. The General Assembly’s examples of “racist regimes” are the occupied territory of Palestine, Zimbabwe, and South Africa. The resolution specifically notes that eliminating colonialism, foreign occupation, Zionism, and apartheid are necessary to end discrimination. In 1975, the Soviet Union pioneered Resolution 3379 and was bolstered by Arab and African states amidst accusations that Israel supported the apartheid regime in South Africa through economic cooperation.
ref CFR.org
Are you against affirmative action?
There’s no racial differentiation of superiority in Zionism.
zionists can’t hold a candle to manifest-destiny protestants
and manifest-destiny protestants come in many forms, including mona-style universalist one-worlder idealistic exceptionalists
no doubt she’s sitting at the kitchen table right now, her and gert and who knows who else … all of them war-posting to various blogs with identical 2004 mac powerbooks
these people scare me even more than the muslins
in defence of mona i note that muslims scare you
Mona, it’s simply that Jack and his fellow Hasbara trolls are paid by the word, line. and paragraph, to spew the official Zionist propaganda in comment sections all over the internet. For their ilk the choice is simple: Lie or Die!
Please present the original.
There is no benefit to appeasing the collective of zionista thieves making requests of or demands upon others. Everyone already knows their mental disorder. UN resolution 3379.
see Dr. Hajo Meyer for more details.
or read
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/10/terror-thomas-suarez/
you are welcome. hope this helps.
You’ve already seen me quote the original from a Norman Finkelstein work. I’m not providing it for you again, but I will for anyone else whom I deem to be asking in good faith.
Why do you keep posting what you know is a lie? (Are you aware Dershowitz never sued Finkelstein for Finklestein’s book documenting that he — Dershowitz — is both a liar and plagiarist on these matters? Want to make a guess why that is, hmmm?)
I don’t know that it’s a lie until I see the original.
I didn’t see the original.
Please post the original.
Sad to see the Dumbocraps devolve into the Zionist Party; Trump can likely get his Israeli-like border wall built by them, as long as he tells them it will keep Muslim Mexicans out.
Or, they can just wait for their favorite foreigner, Bibi Netanyahu, to visit and show them how religious racism works for the Holy (CRAP!) Land.
Zionism Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.
And Zionist became Nazis to do it, treating indigenous Palestinians as Jews had been treated in some gentile countries. What Zionist did and do was and is every bit as evil.
For documentation of that, see Thomas Suarez’s recent book, reviewed here: State of Terror — How terrorism created modern Israel.
All Zionists?
As evil? Gas chambers? Crematoria?
Anti Semitism is a terrible thing. The Palestinians need to go back where they came from and leave the Israelis alone. Palestinian refugees are such a menace. How can the Israelis live in peace when Palestinians launch attack helicopters and rockets and fence Israelis in? The Israelis have been there for thousands of years and Palestinians keep trying to take their land. On June 2014, Palestinian ships killed Israeli children playing soccer on a beach. Just because of antisemitism. Palestinians are the sole nuclear power in the Middle East and a menace, they are part of the axis of evil. Just because of antisemitism. The Palestinians control the flow of water, the movement of goods/trade, and immigration and just fence Israelis-in, in ever shrinking parcels of land. Israelis can’t even build any structures, without Palestinian leave. You know, the origin of the word ‘Semite’ means desert-dweller. Look it up in an etymology book. Palestinians know nothing about the desert, but Israelis do, if you look at them. Any one against Israel is an anti-Semite and the Palestinian threat cannot be overstated.
“Water shortages in the Palestinian Authority are the result of Palestinian policies that deliberately waste water and destroy the regional water ecology. The Palestinians refuse to develop their own significant underground water resources, build a seawater desalination plant, fix massive leakage from their municipal water pipes, build sewage treatment plants, irrigate land with treated sewage effluents or modern water-saving devices, or bill their own citizens for consumer water usage, leading to enormous waste…In short, the Palestinian Authority is using water as a weapon against the State of Israel. It is not interested in practical solutions to solve the Palestinian people’s water shortages, but rather perpetuation of the shortages and the besmirching of Israel.”
I didn’t know American Jews were under threat; is that why some love Israel so much, even though they have no intention of moving there? I imagine that since you are obviously an Israeli citizen, Jack, you must know the answer…
Why am I obviously an Israeli citizen?
What? Don’t tell me you are one of the hypocrites I mentioned above. When are you moving back to your ancestral lands? It seems a shame to let your people be so oppressed when you are living comfortably in a place where Jews are accepted. You’re certainly not doing Israel any favors by focusing your energies on this site. Breitbart is your best outlet.
You didn’t answer my question.
Dr. Hajo Meyer is a holocaust survivor who explains how it is that zions and nazis are of the same cloth.
Today, zions are a collective of organised criminals operating as a criminal organisation under the color of law, FAKE LAW, in israel for the purpose of stealing land by murdering Palestinians under the guise that GOD MAKES THEM KILL PALESTINIANS.
have a nice day.
There are millions of Zionists. How many of them are criminal?
Zionism is a DNA Convert Contagion caused by stealing, pretending and claiming the Identity of a culture (Israelites) that never belong to them in the first place!
Their (zionist) misery and suffering (aka holocaust) was a curse resulting from their pretend following and teachings of the Most High GOD! In reality they are satanic worshippers who blasphemy GOD!
Subject Change:
Wait just a damn minute… who in hell’s name is funding ISIS???
1. How can a bunch of “rag tag” so called terrorist get funding to pay for military machinery and equipment that they have the capability to stand against a “well funded” fighting force that we know the US government and allies are funding???
2. Does ISIS have a Military Industrial Complex, or Manufacturing for making weaponry???
3. Who is selling or providing this heavy duty military killing equipment + parts to sustain to sustain such resistance for so many years or does this equipment just “fall from the sky” into their hands???
4. What currency are the ISIS fighters being paid with to fight and risk their lives for???
5. Does ISIS have a GDP? What do they produce? Car manufacturing? Pork bellies, computers, steel, agriculture? What do they actually trade or export to sustain such funding as to support a war effort for so many years like as they do???
6. How come as technically advance and how cyber secure and so superior intelligence as we claim to be are not able to trace one dollar of ISIS’s funding???
AND the final and really Number 1 Question on “NOBODY’S MIND”…
“1.” Why has ISIS, the so called, “fear of the World”, Never Ever, Ever, Ever, Ever, Never attacked or attacks Israel?????????????
This question answers ALL the above questions in regards of who is sponsoring and financing and supplying heavy military equipment and arms to the so called military “Terror Group known as ISIS!”
It’s called the “Inside Kill!”
Now you can go back to sleep…
ISIS has attacked Israel.
Progressive leftists must be reminded that the whole idea behind nanny state is that nanny knows better than its still developing progressive-leftist charges.
What nonsense – Ellison was fairly called out for some divisive language and abject silence about the civil right suppression of Jews on campus in Minnesota.
Nice anti-Semitic dog-whistling here, yourselves, though.
I feel so bad for the writers of the intercept. Hard hitting journalism does attract conspiracy theorists. “NWO”, “zionist”, “globalist”. Sounds a lot like Breitbart.
Well golly, Deputy Chair. That’s awesome! Why didn’t Ellison tell them to stick it?
Keith could be a trojan horse for them. Learning the ins and outs and mechanics and contacts of the inner workings. Then breaking out like a virus. Could be a real plus for later on for a 3rd party.
Okay, I see your point. I hope you’re right.
11 dimensional chess. Bernie supporters understood it well.
Obama was the opiate of the masses. Trump, in contrast?
http://www.rtumble.com/
And the real political divide in this country? It’s not liberals vs. conservatives, it’s the oligarchs and their circle of hangers-on and admirers, vs. the rest of the population who has been robbed by them.
Keith Ellison is a member of the progressive caucus, which an extremist sect that bases their electoral strategy on maintaining a bitterly divided population bin order to keep voters scared enough to embrace identity politics” and vote against whichever candidate is alleged to care about white people.
However, the intercept being staffed by racist extremists that spend their days oppressing and slandering “white people” as the source of all evil, the blatant racism of Ellison And his hateful progressive ilk has passed without comment by the intercept. . .again. The intercept idea dangerous racist propaganda rag published by an oligarch to divide the people.
What a load of BS. Corporate Republicans and corporate Democrats both embrace identity politics – “white pride” vs. “liberal white guilt”; “black conservatives opposed to Latino migration”, “hard-working immigrants vs. lazy poor citizens”, etc. This is a deliberate tactic on their part, and you’ve bought into it.
In reality, this is just a divide-and-conquer tactic run by corporate America to keep wages low and profits high while consolidating political power in the hands of Wall Street donors. You’re a sucker for falling for it.
nailed it.
wow. it is not enough to simply be white to be important.
PAC troll. Quite obviously. Don’t respond
Dem party bought – paid for – owned. It is toxic. Do not rejoin ever! Save your money and time.
It doesn’t help Ellison’s credibility that he accepted the nebulous, newly minted DNC position of “deputy chair.” Wow, awarded a vice position to a head position that is in large part ceremonial by the very people who conspired to deny you the head position to begin with. The feelings of power and influence must be hard to contain. Resistance is futile, all will be assimilated into the Democratic Borg.
I wasn’t there, but, it’s easy to see Perez and company patting their little Muslim buddy on the head as he looks up woefully from the floor, waiting for scraps to drop from their lavishly-set DNC feast, which he had the gall to assume he could attend.
And, it’s going to continue to be just scraps for any of the Democratic Party’s little buddies–whoever they are–until enough organized, genuinely democratic money comes along to match the old, deeply entrenched money of the establishment Democratic Party and its slimy DNC and blows it out of the water.
as things begin to look and perform worse for the dems (i was once a supporter of them) they will then find a way to blame him because his secret title is “the fall guy”.
Full disclosure: I supported them for decades. Yes, I was a Democrat. Today, the DNC makes it easy to look around for a new home.
Unfortunately I’ve watched the liberal/progressive movement devolve before my eyes, and as a result it played a direct role in the collapse of the democratic party. Which is why you are all now bickering over where to place the deck chairs.
I think back at the start of the occupy wallstreet movement, and it was a phenomenal thing. There were no divisions. It quietly affirmed that we are the 99 percent, all of us, and the financial system needs reform. We also wanted an open internet, net neutrality was an issue. Freedom was a thing. Then the walls closed in. Suddenly we all had niche ideas, and niche rights, and niche identities, and they all had to be accommodated, which is why walls were needed – to keep out the people who couldn’t assimilate those dozens of different ideas. We became the Borg. Living inside our Borg cube, with everything else safely outside the gray walls.
I don’t expect most of you to understand this, because you are inside the cube. You don’t associate with any feminists who don’t hold free-palestine signs, or environmentalists who accept a balance with industry, or gays who won’t chant hands up don’t shoot, or jews who are critical of BDS, or blacks who support law and order, or latinos who want legal immigration. And all those people are democrats, so you’re not only ignoring other americans (republicans and independents) you’re not even breaking bread with other democrats.
So by design, the democratic party shrunk. This could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on where your interests lie. Maybe you want to grow Jill Stein’s party , maybe you want to be a socialist, maybe you want to focus on bigger ideas and be PART OF a more moderate, future democratic party.
I can’t say what will happen in 4 or 8 years. The political landscape continues to change.
Or maybe you just dont like the idea of being lied to or 2-faced or crossed and betrayed, idunno. It’s tough leaving a party that beats you up and robs you. Myself, i just dont have the heart to be their punching bag and victim any more.
Maybe you want to grow Jill Stein’s party , maybe you want to be a socialist, maybe you want to focus on bigger ideas and be PART OF a more moderate, future democratic party. YES.
i’m thinking you’re under 30. not that there’s anything wrong with that, but your view of the Democrat Party seems a little . . . constrained. the “liberal/progressive” movement has barely been a significant political force in the US since the Civil Rights era. and the Chamber of Commerce wing of the Democrat Party hierarchy has been torpedoing real progressive policy and candidates since at least the time of Henry Wallace.
ok, wait . . . this isn’t an age thing.
have you actually met any Democrats? like, the ones that supported the invasions and occupations? the ones that admonish the rest of us that The Truth is always found in the middle of two arbitrary points on an arbitrary line defined by a closed, 2-party political system…?
i am starting to sense the corporat pattern here in the deomocrat party operation – recruiting youth-know-little and discarding older folks.
No, I’m not under 30. And wow, you really didn’t make a lot of sense with anything in your reply. Have I “met” any Democrats? I am a registered Democrat. My whole family are registered Democrats. Well, not all of them but most.
take a gander at a post below
from MAXWELL
https://theintercept.com/2017/02/25/keith-ellison-loses-dnc-race-after-heated-campaign-targeting-him-for-his-views-on-palestine/?comments=1#comment-363348
it is remarkably thoro, accurate and revealing.
There’s nothing revealing in it. Marxism is not the answer, and there’s no example of it successfully working and creating equality and freedom. While I do agree that darwinian capitalism is something to be avoided, capitalism itself is not evil, and nor is it the only driver of a complex nation like the US. Government can help capitalism work better by enforcing anti-trust laws and other things.
The part about the two parties really being almost one party, on some level, is true. The deck is stacked. But what’s infuriating is that the democratic party seems more focused on social issues and grievances instead of basic issues that actually affect our lives, for example tax laws/tax shelters. I understand why the establishment would want to avoid discussing certain things, because it affects their pocketbook. I can understand why they want us to chase the shiny object, but why would WE want to?
You want your party to win, there’s things you can do and eventually win again, as always. But if instead, you want your country to be stronger and freer and a future for your children, then start talking to democrats you don’t agree with, and talk to republicans and independents, because they are not only your neighbors, they are voters.
In the end, the vote, as useless as it often seems, has power. For example with all the money and media against Trump, people walked to the polls and simply voted. My coworker came into the office furious the day after, saying everyone is a liar who said they were voting for Hillary. Maybe, maybe not. What really happened was the phenomenon of anonymous voting. It still exists, and it can be surprising.
Why do you think the same senators keep getting elected year after year, sometimes for decades? Sometimes it’s gerrymandering, but more often than not it’s because partisan voters are afraid of losing to the other party. Winning is everything to them. Hate and mistrust for the other party is real. But that gets you nowhere.
I can see it now, because I’ve taken a step back. I’m off the merry-go-round.
there wasn’t particularly widespread or uniform support for OWS by Democrats. and as you imply in your previous post, Democrat pols and their supporters tend to take up a great many relatively conservative (small “c”) positions. the problem is that as a Party, they feel they’re owed, as their due, progressive votes and support.
they are the greater threat to actual progressive policy. it’s as if they feel entitled to dismiss any non-centrist (pretty much center-right these days) view as wild-eyed radicalism because anyone who is more progressive than they are must be unreasonable.
Identity politics (AKA: Identity Liberalism) is the mother of niche ideas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-liberalism.html?_r=0
Creating a society that equally accommodates the idiosyncratic concerns of its fringe elements can only be accomplished at the expense of cultural homogeneity. Any change that radically alters the cultural homogeneity of a given society is, by definition, a destabilizing element. As ethnocentric monoculturalism has not become the fly in the ointment of the globalist elites, a new set of “transformative” values are being disseminated from the top down by those who identify as “transformative leadership” within their respective cultural spheres (i.e. Academia, Politics, Mass Media. etc.). In keeping with the aim of identifying and supplanting a myriad of nativist sensibilities with a single set “global” values, postmodernist conceptions of traditional cultural identities have been devised wherein their predominant constituent elements (i.e. gender, race, and religion) are now being defined as “fluid, multidimensional, and personalized social constructions” that merely reflect their unique sociohistorical context. In keeping with the relativistic predilections of postmodern thought, academics have embraced deconstructionism as the mean by which history itself can be interpreted in service to the establishment of an elite, global consensus. It is only within this light that one can begin to understand the seething animus for nativest sensibilities that has now become a defining characteristic of the most radical progenitors of socially-liberal discourse.
Wow Karl, that article was spot on.
Thanks. However, I apologize for my lack of editing:
should have read:
Progressives install Perez, reelect Pelosi,…. When do leftists learn? When do progressives disavow leadership like Perez and Pelosi?
Republicans threw off the 28 year neocon infection of their party, setting an example. But Democrats will never learn.
Progressives are not leftists.
“Progressive” is just another weasel word.
“Progressive” is merely a term that was salvaged from the scrapheap of history, sorry but that’s too great a metaphor not to steal, by the alleged “left” in this country because the Limbaughs, Kristols,et al had so demonized the word “liberal.” That’s basically it, plain and simple. The problem is, that in spite of the fact they were led by one of the biggest imperialists and warmongers, the original Progressives,were a bunch of Bolsheviks, compared to the hegemonic capitalists who wrap themselves in the “progressive” mantle today.
While some of us here know that modern-day liberalism was founded to be a capitalist-friendly “third way” between socialism,and conservatism, most people do not. If they did and truly understood this history they would not waste all of their time and effort into trying to make “liberals”, and The Democratic Party in particular, into the socialists they might want them to be.
A “progressive” is someone who cannot admit to the systemic failure of the society. Through this stubborn blindness, they reveal their own fundamental loyalty to the social system as a whole. The solution to the “anti-democratic” turn in American politics is not to question its foundations but to proscribe “more democracy” or “real democracy”, without evaluating for a minute whether the “”turn” is really an aberration. In economics, a “progressive” is one who blames an excess of greed, a deficiency of regulation, or the corruption of the state rather than the normal operation of capitalism. In this way, “progressives” are identical to Libertarians who, in the face of insurmountable evidence, continue to insist that it is “too little” and not too much “free enterprise” which is the problem.
We need a capitalism based on good intentions says the one, based on a strengthening of the “individual” claims the next, and one purged of racial corruption declares the last. Fixing capitalism is the highest and in fact the only slogan of all of the above, and this in the most trivial and unhistorical way possible. Those are the last and the only words of this brand of “radical” criticism which is actually a radical support for the society as it exists… if only that society could be “allowed” to achieve its “true” nature.
All too often “progressive” has come to mean someone who will offer unconditional support to The Democratic Party no matter what.
A progressive is someone who believes in the system.
Progressives and liberals are as ready as conservatives to support government interventions in our lives and on the world stage. The country in question may be Sudan, Afghanistan or perhaps Iran. The clarion call is the same. “We must do something” because “we” are superior, all knowing, and chosen by a divine force to make the world in whatever image we choose.
No one asks how “we” is defined, or if the presence of the United States is needed or wanted. No one asks about the history of past interventions and their usually negative outcomes. It is assumed that Americans are good and know what is best for the world, despite a long history of numerous brutalities carried out across the globe.
Progressive leftists would be better off if they would grow a spine and stop installing Perez and reelecting the dark occultist Nancy Pelosi.
Yes, an astute political analyst such as yourself would spew such feverish shit. After all, this is a book you’ve long recommended: The Satanic Bloodlines.
Is Pelosi an Illuminati operative, as that book you like “documents?” Was she in on the plot to murder Scalia to replace him with a Jew, as you’ve recently claimed occurred?
Pffft. Why do you continue too pollute the board with this madness?
Satanic Bloodlines mentions nothing about Pelosi, and I’ve never claimed Pelosi was in on any plot.
You’re not bright enough to understand that when someone writes that Scalia was assassinated to cover for the potential loss of the WH for Democrats, and that Obama waited not 24 hours to put another leftist Jew on the Supreme Court, is not remotely the same as “plot to murder Scalia to replace him with a Jew.”
And you style yourself a “researcher.” One who dug in her heels and resisted acknowledging We Are Change is a truther site. And one who kept dropping pro-SPLC into your arguments before being shown Harper’s Magazine’s report on their enrichment here:
http://harpers.org/blog/2010/04/morris-dees-a-life-fighting-poverty/
Huh. Then where are you getting this “dark occultist” stuff re: Pelos? Is it form one of your other books about the Satanism you think is running plots, contrilling minds & etc? I mean, you’ve been enthusiastic about several such works. How many other members of Congress are “dark occultists,” and what is your source?
I see. You said Scalia was smothered with his pillow so Obama could put a Jew on the Supreme court. But that isn’t “the same” as a plot to murder Scalia to replace him with a Jew.
Yes, yes, I see.
You, sir, are a fine addition to the intelligent discussion on this board. And you are so right — I’m not bright enough to follow this. Please do enlighten me as to how you know Scalia was assassinated, and by whom?
Usually you drop dozens of one-line pieces of insane drivel on the message board late at nite. But here now, in the middle of a Sunday, please let’s demonstrate in front of a Sunday crowd why you are such value to this board.
I would like to see it all collected in one place for future reference.
You as a site co-opting threadjacker who posts compulsively during every waking hour should know otherwise.
You are evading the question(s):
And:
Well?
Yeah, the republicans got rid of their neocons and replaced them with Nazis.
Nazi means Socialist Workers Party, National as in NARAL, NPR, NOW. Nazis were leftists, and only leftists are attracted to “Socialist” and “Workers” scribbled above a function hall doorbell. And deep down you know that.
That post-Nuremberg playbook won’t work any better as embarrassed, chastened leftists try to use it against Obama’s publically discredited legacy either. He even had his own solar symbol too.
Why do virtually all scholarly books understand Hitler NOT to have been a leftist? Why does that crap come only from Alex Jones, infowars enthusiasts like you?
‘Scholars’ are the same ones blocking conservatives from school departments for half a century now while they publish or perish.
Straight out of the post-Nuremberg playbook their descendants will be writing of the right wing Barack Obama, and your descendants will be lapping it up as you did.
Non-responsive. (For one thing, conservative publishing houses publish).
Again:
And you are still evading:
As well as evading this:
Well?
Only the deluded left would think they could convince a population that Barack Obama is right of center, or that conservatives would ever be within 10 miles of a “Socialist” or (nevermind and) “Workers” anything.
You are spewing non sequiturs, utterly failing to address the relevant questions.
Whatever. My point was they’re replacing them with something just as odious as the neocons.
oh? i guess that explains the radical departure in policy that we’ve seen in the last month, all that draining of the swamp thing.
oh, wait….
Saban’s and Sheldon’s bought and paid ZioDemocratic Party?
Same Policy and Platform:
Israel (Zionism) First… and everybody else can f*#k off and die!
Zionism is a DNA Contagion!
“The only cure for Zionism is a blood transfusion… with the blood of JESUS!”
all men
the antizionists at TI always have such well thought out arguments. too funny.
sure beats murdering palestinians for their land
sure beats sucking up to the Yinon Plan
sure beats worshipping the thieves of wallstreet
lest i forget, zionists are a hate group. Dont ask me to explain unless you want to demonstrate that you excel in stupidity because i will simply refer you to Dr. Hajo Meyer.
and you can read STATE OF TERROR
by Thomas Suárez
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/10/terror-thomas-suarez/
Why would I want to read a purported history book by a non historian. I leave the propaganda to the propagandists.
I’m still waiting for you to explain how the zionists who didn’t exist until almost 2000 years after the time of Jesus killed him as you claimed. Explain that first.
Since you insist on me addressing you as a babboon, here you go.
12: Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him,
13: And led him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.
28: Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
29: Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?
30: They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.
31: Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
38: Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
39: But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
40: Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.
1: Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
5: Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
6: When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7: The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
====================================
it’s called WITNESSING.
WITNESSING is where historians get their information.
Dr. Hajo Meyer is a witness to zionist nazis
have a really nice day
I’m sorry I didn’t see any mention of zionism in your reply. You claimed that Zionists killed Jesus. If you are saying that Zionists and Jews are the same thing then have the guts to say it.
you act like a stalker
do you beat your wife?
kill/murder palestinians?
killed any palestinians lately?
Have some guts, say here and now that you are a confirmed and dedicated zionist in all respects.
Also say that the killing of all palestinians is justified.
Then answer 1 question. WHICH COUNTRY IS MORE IMPORTANT, isreal or AMERICA?
have a nice day
you posted in response to my post, if anyone is “stalking” it you.
well you are doing an excellent job of addressing me as a baboon barb. do you look like one too?
Unlike you I have the guts to answer your questions.
I don’t beat my wife.
I haven’t murdered anyone Palestinian or other wise neither lately or in the past.
America is a more important country to me.
You will have to define what you mean by confirmed and dedicated zionist in all respects means before I can answer that.
Thank you and you have a nice day yourself.
No. I do not look like one,…… too :-)
eh? you are the zion, you tell me what it takes to be a really really good strong zion and explain how that is different or better than being an ordinary jew… if you got the guts.
you will lose.
You used the term and now you won’t define it. too funny.
but ok since you asked. A zionist supports the idea of a Jewish homeland in Israel.
Now I’m still waiting for you to explain how zionists killed Jesus when your post only mentions Jews, gutless. Isn’t it funny how I never duck your questions barb and yet you continually duck mine.
as for me losing, I have never lost to you barb. In point of fact I have beaten you every time and will continue to do so, and every time you duck a question, or show that you really have no idea what constitutes a legitimate historical account or even what a legitimate historian is it gets proven again.
you mean a jewish homeland in Palestine.
Well then if that the extent of zionism, YOU LIE. Unless you are branding jews as apartheid racists for the apartheid racist policies of israel, like shipping darker skinned persons “back to africa”.
You are NO AUTHORITY, have NO CREDENTIALS, have NO FORMAL RECOGNITION… you are just some guy internet blathering poster pretending to be somebody and really, you are nobody. You are a nobody. You are a “Jilgee”. Get a life, live, help Palestinians build a home or a business or become a doctor and heal them from the crazy israeli terrorists.
</blockquoteYou are NO AUTHORITY, have NO CREDENTIALS, have NO FORMAL RECOGNITION… you are just some guy internet blathering poster pretending to be somebody and really, you are nobody. You are a nobody. You are a “Jilgee”. Get a life, live, help Palestinians build a home or a business or become a doctor and heal them from the crazy israeli terrorists.</blockquote
I agree I am a nobody I never claimed otherwise. You and your buddies are the ones always assigning labels to me. I've never made any such claim.
As for getting a life; after a 30 year career in IT I took my severance money and spent it on getting a masters degree in social work, a field in which I now work. On the other hand you sit on your ass all day long doing nothing but posting ridiculous conspiracy theory which is always exposed by me a nobody.
You lose again barb.
The Palestinians’ troubles are of their own making.
If racist, xenophobic Palestinians had not started a war against the Jews in 1947, there would be no Palestinian refugees. If Palestinians had not attacked Israeli in 1967, there would have been no occupation. If you want to help Palestinians, convince them to choose peace.
no barb historians do not get their history from the bible especially not when the account that “witnessed” the event was written 100 years later as the Gospel according to John was.
Not surprised you would consider Meyer and Suarez historians when it is clear you know nothing about how historians get their information. too funny.
i did not mean WITNESSING in a biblical sense.
The evil rewriters of history are intent on eliminating the need of human beings to believe or hear or see those who are WITNESSES TO EVENTS.
to rephrase
from WITNESSES is where historians get their information.
would be more fitting.
and again the passage that you think quotes witnesses was written 100 years after the event. and you still haven’t told me how zionists were involved.
So please explain how:
1) the author of the Gospel According to John actually used witness accounts.
2) how zionists were involved.
Also please provide Suarez’s credentials as a historian.
Thieves of Wall Street?
Evidence of theft?
Why do you hate Zionism?
have you heard of this new movement called, Neo-conservatism?
Yes. I’ve heard of neo-conservatism.
i love jewish people, not zions
zionists are racists. UN resolution 3379.
have a nice day
The UN repealed resolution 3379.
Zionism has become a right wing ideology, which has promoted ideas like house demolitions, providing cover for right wing settlers stealing land and obvious support for killers in the military who get a slap on the wrist for murder, even when there is overwhelming evidence. Since and before Ariel Sharon, one of Likud’s most psychopathic war criminals, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have been exposing their insanity. But since hating Muslims is more palatable to both parties, they use it as cover, so, Zionists can achieve their goals.
The idea has been hijacked by psychopaths who use Nazi style propaganda/military techniques, pay for play in the US and other Western governments, plus, they lie about their real purpose, which is total annexation. They’re just biding their time, hoping Muslim hate will be normalized long enough to succeed. At every opportunity, Bibi spews Muslim hatred to gin up support for Likud and the settlers. Liberal Israelis and liberal Jewish opinions are marginalized globally, like they don’t exist, although much of Israel is much more liberal than Europe or the US.
The West supported Zionism because our policies toward Jews were just as racists. They knew they could use their power to displace Palestinians because they didn’t have the military capability to defend against annexation. Plus, it was sold as a satellite to control resource rich Muslim countries. It worked!
Now, it’s just a slow motion process to defend and normalize the ideas of psychopaths. Zionism has evolved into a hateful ideology because no one sincerely worked with the people in the region to solve the Jewish refugee problem and Jewish persecution under Western governments. All they thought about was, as long as we keep them out of the US and Europe, we don’t care. Zionists used their hate towards Muslims and Western greed to their benefit. They love racism because it has benefited them.
In a weird way, I can’t blame Zionists. They just exploited people who hated Jews but hated Muslims more. Zionists don’t care about religion, only the power and control that comes with it.
Just because there are some Zionists who do bad things, doesn’t mean that Zionism is bad.
Just because there are some Americans who do bad things, doesn’t mean that democracy is bad.
Evidence that Zionism is a DNA Contagion?
There are Zionists who became anti-Zionists & anti-Zionist who became Zionists. Are you claiming that their DNA changed?
I think we need to take a step out of this and avoid climbing on either bandwagon, because there is a lot wrong here. To begin with, these DNC figures are not the candidates, but people who, before last year’s campaign, we never heard of. They are not supposed to tip the primary race, but their beliefs may not be the same as the candidates, and it seems inevitable that some of them are going to try to line up a bit more with potential donors. Hopefully that is just to sweet-talk some money out of the old goats’ hands that can then be diverted via this and that committee to someone who more aligns with the people. However much we fear the reverse is more likely.
More to the point, you can do the prima donna act, say you hate them, say you’re going to walk out, but they know that if there’s an election you are either going to vote for the best candidate who actually gets listed on the ballot, or you’ll be irrelevant, or you’ll go and do something really stupid just to “show them”, but show yourself worse.
Decent candidates like Sanders and Warren still work with them, to varying degrees. If you think they are what you want for your ruler then it would make sense to do as they say. If not, you need another – make one.
It is well known that the bulk of the power in this country is coming from the corporations and special interests. The question is, what do you do to push on them? If you’re living your life to hand over your money to payday lenders or cable companies, don’t be surprised when they are in control of the politics. The place where we need to learn to build a decent republic is in our lives and associations, and then the rest might follow – the desperate have an excuse why they cannot, but many here have enough wealth or enough knowledge to choose one path or another.
The situation with Zionism and anti-Semitism seems especially out of control. The two are faces of the same coin, which keeps turning up like a bad penny. Now Dershowitz actually wrote a decent essay about why he didn’t like Ellison – he shouldn’t be trashed without reading it. I have seen gay and black authors get as angry about smaller things than that, and it is fair “identity politics”. The catch is that the use of this politics creates a backlash, just as it did when Obama dealt with some of those same black leaders. At some point the Jewish groups need to recognize that their role is to defend their minority, but not to try to take over and become some sort of IRL Elders of Zion with a compliant US backing every crazy thing they do, because that is dangerous. They’re not merely risking that turned-off voters here later choose to desert Israel entirely at a time when its hubris has put it in mortal danger – they’re converting what were once far-right conspiracy theories into mainstream ideas.
I mean, I double dog fricking dare any news agency doing a survey to see how many Americans “strongly agree” to “strongly disagree” with statements like “American Jews put Israel first and the U.S. second”, or even “aren’t really loyal to the U.S. where Israel is concerned”. I think we would find there’s an issue here! I mean, at one end we have both parties seeming as if under the thumb of Jewish interests, and yet we have a popular disdain that is rapidly verging into hatred. And the more this hatred grows, the more it motivates, even necessitates, that Jewish interests use their power, though by so doing, they cause even more backlash. The inevitable result of that situation is some sudden and terrible change, unless some adults in the room are able to draw a clear line, focusing entirely on justifiable self-defense (which might include defeating Ellison) but accepting and implementing that U.S. support for Israel, both financially and politically, needs to have clear limits, and should come with the quid pro quo of some ability to rein in abusive practices like “buffer zones” and extrajudicial executions.
Been working for the DNC long Wnt?
….”It is well known that the bulk of the power in this country is coming from the corporations and special interests. The question is, what do you do to push on them? If you’re living your life to hand over your money to payday lenders or cable companies, don’t be surprised when they are in control of the politics. The place where we need to learn to build a decent republic is in our lives and associations, and then the rest might follow.”
That’s exactly right.
solution… the virtual party
if the media can hijack or rebrand people and parties, so can anyone else.
imagine ascribing to the likes of Bernie, Liz and Keith – flaws and all. Then rebranding them as VP’s. and identifying what a real VP is even if they are not a perfect fit. ie – Bernie Keith and Liz are not real democrats, they are VP’s – right away VP has an identity and virtual members.
better start somewhere than nowhere. at least somewhere can be specific.
From the U.S. point of view “…the U.S.-Israel relationship” should be that our government serving it’s people before they serve Israel’s right wing land grabbing, fear mongering, the bombing of innocents, systematic destabilizing of the Middle-East agenda, and also stop them from buying our politicians.
as president i would
END ALL FOREIGN AID IMMEDIATELY.
Withdraw most military bases in foreign countries.
Quit NATO.
Rebuild the American infrastructure with DEBITS TO THE MILITARY BUDGET.
Evict a bunch of people.
Build a wall on the southern border.
Reclaim a whole lot of farm land.
End fracking.
Make education a publicly owned institution paid for by taxation and tuition free while allowing private health efforts to compete.
Establish a single payer health system while allowing private health efforts to compete.
End toll roads.
Expropriate the federal reserve thusly firing the criminal consortium that owns and runs it now.
Create a replacement currency backed by gold and silver.
End immigration.
End the H1B program.
End private prisons and commandeer what they have now.
Guarantee life support and employment.
Claw back the ill gotten gains of the wallstreet thieves.
Revoke license to practice laws of elected persons who propose or otherwise support laws that violate the Consitution of the US and the Declaration of Independence.
Demand that all supreme court decisions demonstrate a basis on allegiance and conformity to the preservation of the individual.
Make the arts the primary ciriculum in early education.
Turn all rental units in multi dwell buildings into ownable condominiums.
Implement a plan of population reduction.
Put a muzzle on the cia and restrain them from doing anything other than information gathering.
Sic the nsa and fbi onto transnational organised crime and self identified hate groups.
Ban the flying of any flag in the US other than the American flag.
Deny public admin/mngmt positions to anyone who has citizenship in another country.
Palestinians have been oppressing Jews for centuries.
In 1839, the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem…lives from day to day in terror of his life….Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace,”
JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.
Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived in Palestine. Notice the word bigotry.
Jews had lived for centuries in Hebron & Gaza until they were ethnically cleansed from those areas in 1929.
During the week of riots from 23 to 29 August, 133 Jews were killed by Arabs and 339 others were injured,
and now Palestinians oppress Israelis
Running over Israelis is oppression.
Stabbing Israelis is oppression.
Shooting Israelis is oppression.
Firing rockets at Israelis is oppression.
Blowing up Israelis is oppression.
Throwing rocks at Israelis is oppression.
Israel has the right to defend itself.
The antisemitism of the intercept cannot be overstated. The Palestinians really have too much control and influence in our media. The Palestinians surround the Israelis at every turn, seize Israeli land and expel the Israelis, incarcerate even children (look this up on Amnesty International), do mass executions, deny movement of Israelis in their rightful land they have lived for thousands of years with their relentless immigration…it is horrible. The Palestinians have lots of nukes (for decaded) and the US just approved a massive multi-billion dollar aid package to Palestinians to strengthen their military Sparta state. Just because of antisemitism.
nice backhand
dont mind if i plagiarise?
Racist, xenophobic Palestinians stab Israelis, run over Israelis, blow up Israelis, throw rocks at Israelis, fire rockets at Israelis, shoot Israelis, etc. Palestinians were attacking Israelis before settlements, before occupation, & before Israel Palestinians were attacking Jews. Palestinians ethnically cleansed Hebron & Gaza of their Jews. Arabs ethnically cleansed the West Bank & East Jerusalem of their Jews. Before Zionism Jews in Palestine lived in fear for their lives.
The juxtaposition was delicious. Donna Brazile announcing the vote total. The consultants and Obama-Clinton operatives keep their golden goose. All we needed was Roland Martin doing the tally. Keith was played like a Rube at a 3 card Monte game. “Resist” is the watchword. Send your cash is the wink and nose touch code. Hey maybe they can have Obama as the featured speaker at the WHCD. Don’t take the Red Pill Dems. 2008 was a great year. BTW, did I mention Trump is Hitler? Back to you Poppy.
Dems can realize their dream of Equal In Serfdom more quickly with Perez and the dark occultist Pelosi at their helm.
“Donna Brazile announcing the vote total”
Exactly. I honestly could not believe it. The Democratic Party (of which I was a member for my entire 55 years until very recently) is in complete disarray and denial. It’s literally embarrassing to watch them now. The are so corrupt, and it’s just lately I can see this. It’s nothing new, Iwas just blinded to it I guess. In denial as well… *sigh*
If you allow yourself to look at and understand the relevant evidence, which now stretches back for a hundred years, you’ll see that the Democrats want, indeed they fervently desire, zealously advocate and bring into an increasingly nightmarish reality an aggressively, criminally violent, interventionist foreign policy and a constantly growing authoritarian-surveillance state at home.
Today, and with as much detestable enthusiasm as the Republicans bring to the task, the Democrats seek to enrich and empower the ruling class still more as they simultaneously oppress, brutalize, impoverish and murder those who are not members of the ruling class.
The Democrats will oppress, brutalize, impoverish and murder those who are not the ruling class, BUT — since they are mercifully not crazy, not like those frothing, sputtering, Neanderthal Republicans — the Democrats will know exactly what they’re doing every step of the way. But in their hearts, the Democrats actually know these are horrible things to do, but, well, ya see, they just can’t help it. They’re weak.
In liberal-speak, Democrats are never evil (like those nasty, hateful Republicans); they are either weak, stupid, or cowardly. To suggest that Democrats are anything other than blundering, inept, fearful do-gooders is to be pejoratively labeled a dissident ‘cynic’, as if that’s such a bad thing. For the record, I’m a proud cynic and I loathe both Democrats and Republicans equally along with the capitalist organized crime syndicate currently masquerading as the US Government, which they both fervently and faithfully serve.
That’s really the typical ‘liberal/progressive’ argument isn’t it? Gosh, the Democrats would really and truly LOVE to do the right thing, “but, well, ya see, they just can’t help it. They’re weak.” They’re cowards. They’re inept.
This brings up another point. If many liberals and progressives continue to support Democrats because they choose to see the Democrats not as evil, but rather as weak, inept, or cowardly, I have to question their continuing support of weakness, ineptness, and cowardice, as if these are justifiable or admirable attributes of the people’s representatives. Obviously, Democratic politicians are none of these things, they are evil opportunists like their Republican counterparts, but still, is claiming weakness or ineptness of character any better? Of course not.
Let us leave Never-Never Land and examine The Very Real and Duplicitous Function of the Democratic Party in the American Political System.
The Democratic Party plays an indispensable role in society’s political machinery. This doesn’t mean it has any power, in terms of controlling the state or setting policy. It means that without the existence of the Dem Party, the US could no longer maintain the pretense that it’s a “democracy.” If the Dem Party disintegrated, the US would be revealed for what it really is — a one-party state ruled by a narrow alliance of business interests.
In terms of defending the general population against the depredations of this business consortium, the Dem Party gave up the ghost in the mid-1960’s. Their threadbare act as the “Party of the People” serves not to defend the well-being of the population, but merely to persuade ordinary citizens that within the official political system’s framework, there’s at least some faint hope for eventual progressive change. Their focus is not so much being on our side, as convincing us that they’re on our side — without the slightest serious examination of what that might entail.
The party’s true function is thus largely theatrical. It doesn’t exist to fight for change, but only to pose as a force which one fine distant day might possibly bestir itself to fight for change. Thus the whole magic of the Dem Party — the essential service it renders to the US power structure — lies not in what it does, but in its mere existence: by simply existing, and doing nothing, it pretends to be something it’s not; and this is enough to relieve despair & to let the system portray itself as a “democracy.”
As long as the Dem Party exists, most Americans will believe we have a “democracy” and a “choice” in how we are ruled. They will not despair, and will not revolt, as long as they have this hope for “change within the system.” From the system’s point of view, this mechanism serves as the ultimate safety valve — it insures against a despairing populace, thus eliminates the threat of rebellion; yet guarantees that no serious change to the system will be mounted, because the Dems weren’t designed to play that role in the first place.
Aren’t the Dems The Lesser Evil?
The Democrats are not the “lesser evil;” they are an auxiliary subdivision of the same evil. To understand the political system, one must step back and regard its operation as an integrated whole. The system can’t be properly understood if one’s study of it begins with an uncritical acceptance of the 2-party system, and the conventional characterizations of the two parties. (Indeed, the fact that society encourages one to view it in this latter way, is perhaps a warning that this perspective should not be trusted.)
Any given piece of reactionary legislation is invariably supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats. Does this show that the Democrats are “less evil?” If one focuses on the noble efforts of the few outspoken dissenters, it’s easy to feel that the Democrats are somewhat less evil. But in the larger picture, Democrats invariably submit to what Republicans more ardently promulgate, & the entire range of official opinion thereby shifts to the right. Thus the overall function of Democrats is not so much to fight, as to quasi-passively participate in this ever-rightward-moving process. Just as the Harlem Globetrotters need their Washington Generals to make their basketball games properly entertaining, Republicans need the Democrats for effective staging of the political show.
The Democrats are permitted to exist because their vague hint of eventual progressive change keeps large numbers of people from bolting the political system altogether. Emma Goldman once said, “If voting made a difference, it would be illegal.” Similarly, if the Democrats potentially threatened any sort of serious change, they would be banned. The fact that they are fully accepted by the corporations and political establishment tells us at once that their ultimate function must be wholly in line with the interests of those ruling groups.
The very modestly-sized progressive Dem faction is cynically used as a marketing tool by the national party. They are dangled before your eyes to make you think that the Dems are the “lesser evil” (since the Republicans offer no such Left decorations). The existence of a few decent Dems makes no real difference in the overall alignment of the party, and they will never be internally influential. They are a distraction.
Can Progressives “Take Over” the Dem Party?
The argument is often advanced by progressives that they might be able to “take over” the Dem Party just as the Republican Party was supposedly “taken over” by the Religious Right and neoconservatives. This is wishful thinking, and ignores the actual history and character of both parties.
The Republicans were always the party of Wall Street & Northern manufacturing. The Democrats were the party of the Southern slaveocracy. When the national Democrats defied southern racism by passing the Civil Rights Acts in the mid ’60’s, the southern states bolted, destroying the New Deal coalition. The Republicans profited from this by adapting to southern tastes, values, & religious/cultural conceptions.
But this was in no way out of character for the Republicans. The far right was able to take over the Republican Party because that kind of alliance was always very much in the nature of the Republican Party anyway. It was compatible with, not contradictory to, the big-business nature of the Republican party. Forming an alliance with fascists, racists & religious zealots ADVANCED the big-business agenda.
By contrast, for progressives to take over the Democrats would be an unprecedented departure from the party’s character. To understand this, one must first recognize that the sole Dem claim to being progressive is rooted almost entirely in the New Deal, itself a response to a unique crisis in American history. FDR recognized that to avert the very real threat of massive social unrest and instability, significant concessions had to be made to the working class by the ruling class. Government could act to defend the weak, and to some extent to rein in the strong, but this was all in the longterm interests of defending the existing social order.
Before FDR, the Dem Party had no progressive record whatsoever; and after FDR, though the New Deal coalition survived until the mid-1960’s, it did so with a record of achievement that was restrained compared to the 1930’s. After passing Medicare in 1965 the party reverted to its longterm pattern, and since then, there has again been no progressive record to speak of. The party’s progressive social reform was thus concentrated mostly in the 1930’s, with some residual momentum lasting until the mid 60’s. The party’s “progressive period” was thus 1) an exception to the longer term pattern; 2) a response to a unique crisis; and 3) has in any case been dead for over 40 years.
The word “progressive” refers to the commitment of a political party to defend the interests of the working class (aka the overwhelming majority of the population) against the depredations of the ruling elite. Not only is the Democratic Party unable and unwilling to engage in such a fight, it is unwilling even to pronounce the fight’s name — “class warfare.” Marx is understandably reviled by capitalists for his annoyingly accurate perception that the capitalist class and the rest of the population have a fundamental conflict of interest. Capital seeks only to maximize its return; return can certainly be enhanced by using the machinery of state to transfer costs and burdens to the weak and vulnerable; thus rule by capital is intrinsically inimical to the basic interests of the majority of the population. There is no escaping this reality.
American public discourse attempts to paper over this vexing truth with fatuous happy talk, such as, “By working together, we can make make things better for everyone!” This is a lie. When capital controls government, government is no more than a tool used by elites to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. This kind of arrangement cannot possibly “make all boats rise” over the long term. Only the yachts will rise. If there is no political mechanism for opposing plutocratic rule, the strong will continue to squeeze additional wealth out of the weak until a) the weak become desperate and rebel, b) the weak are crushed and become permanently enslaved, or c) the strong begin suffering more from guilty consciences, than reaping enjoyment from additional wealth — and therefore relent. (Very few instances of this last are known in recorded history.)
For the Democratic Party to even begin to serve as a vehicle for opposing the absolute rule of capital, it would at a minimum have to be capable of acknowledging the conflict that exists between the interests of capital and the rest of the population; and of expressing a principled determination to take the side of the population in this conflict.
A party whose controlling elements are millionaires, lobbyists, fund-raisers, careerist apparatchiks, consultants, and corporate lawyers; that has stood by prostrate and helpless (when not actively collaborating) in the face of stolen elections, illegal wars, torture, CIA concentration camps, lies as state policy, and one assault on the Bill of Rights after the next, is not likely to take that position.
Summed that up quite nicely!
When you say “Before FDR, the Dem Party had no progressive record whatsoever”. What about Woodrow Wilson, who framed himself as the “Progressive candidate” and was a fan of Henry George? Much like FDR, he was pushed by the non-ruling people to successfully implement many progressive desires like anti-trust legislation, financial regulation, work-hour limits, consumer protection, and more. (I am aware of his great faults as well).
I am not trying to defend the Democratic party in particular. The Republicans also had their Progressive President in the form of Theodore Roosevelt (also with flaws).
Don’t those examples, plus yours, prove that it *is* possible to enact progressive reform in a double-ruling-class party system?
I also agree that sometime around the 1960s or 70s both parties became corporatized, and act identically on many economic issues in opposition to the non-ruling peoples. But there are huge differences on issues like climate change, consumer protection, health care. There are many whiffs of truth in your summary, but I think you’re too cynical.
amen
” prominent Democrat Alan Dershowitz proclaimed that he would leave the party if Ellison were elected chair. . . .”
Damn. A once in a lifetime chance to rid the Democratic Party of this “prominent” embarrassment — wasted. Oh well, look on the bright side. Dershowitz can be a stand in when the Party mascot needs a breather.
Like most nonviolent protests, you fail in the short run, but it was worth it because the real goal was to bring injustice into focus. It doesn’t matter who Perez is, the way this was handled shows who the DNC serves.
A lot of us are thinking this is the last straw. The question is what to do instead. At the very least, we can change our party affiliation on our registration and can stop donating to the DNC. Donate to individual candidates instead.
It is hard to tell if this a journalistic editorial report or if this is Zaid Jilani supporting a fellow Muslim against evil white folk. If it is the latter, then it’s sort of the reason why people don’t want more Muslims in the country.
Blacks voted over 90% for Obama and maybe this is to be expected given American history. But is this America’s future? A United States that is balkanized along racial, ethnic and religious grounds?
America is already a nation divided. Do we really need to import more divisiveness?
cut the bull….shouldnt you be over at brietbart making your racist comments?
How is pointing out obvious traits from former conflicts with similar criteria being “racist”? You see, THIS is why folks (one reason, anyway) leave the Democratic Party in DROVES.
Really???
Which sounds “worst to you” Si1ver1ock?
Anti-Semite or Anti-Muslim?
Okay… Let’s switch it up a bit…
Which sounds “best to you” Si1ver1ock?
Anti-Semite or Anti-Muslim?
Lastly, which would you prefer?
A kind Muslim or a hateful Jew?
Purpose of this exercise?:
To expose your Hyper, yet fluid Hypocrisy and Bigotry!
Where are the “TRUE Children of the Most High GOD? (Israelites)
What a truly brilliant and insightful question. I think you’re absolutely correct. I think America should go back to being White Christian Protestant. I think that’s the only way to solve this problem of “divisiveness.”
You’re so right. Maybe the Catholics can stay. But all these other people need to go.
S/
It didn’t take Perez long to state the new party platform: “Let’s all hate Trump.”
As long as they’ve got Trump they don’t have to go through the messy business of actually having to stand for something. Vagueness is the way to go. “At least we’re not republicans” hasn’t worked too well for them but they are willing to give it another try. Obama obviously strong armed many of the committee members into voting for Perez. He wants to keep a hold on the party so that Malia can run in 20 years. Clinton against Obama again. These people are not living in the real world and it’s time for Sanders and Ellison to stop accepting boutique positions with them like mannnequins in a store window.
Love the missing DT tweet.
This is an encouraging sign for the Democratic Party. Hopefully Mr. Perez will soon announce that Mrs. Clinton has been selected as the party’s nominee for 2020 (although I realize they still need to hold some primaries and caucuses to show their respect for the democratic process before the super delegates select Mrs. Clinton).
It is true that Americans made a dreadful mistake last November. However, the Democratic party has wisely decided that Americans will return to their senses before the next election. The key thing is not to make any policy changes to their existing platform, so as not to scare away corporate donors who may be nervous about the party’s left wing. The party, however, has demonstrated that wing is securely under control by creating the fictitious position of DNC Deputy Chair to keep it occupied.
Ms. Naomi Klein tweeted yesterday, ‘What do you call it when you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results? Oh yeah: the Democratic Party’. This is a little unfair. Mrs. Clinton has promised not to set up her own e-mail server and the DNC realizes they made a mistake by allowing any challengers to Mrs. Clinton to enter the race. So they have learned their lesson and the results next time could be completely different.
You seem well informed, could you expand on the role Bill and Barack will play in that campaign ?
love Naomi.
a friend told me the other day.. “This perez election was a move against Bernie Sanders and they just picked up where Hillary Clinton and Debbie Wasserman left off so that Hillary could run again in 2020.”
You’ve been linked to!
SHE WILL LOOSE AGAIN! She needs to go crawl under a rock and STAY there! Her big ego is going to kill us all!
You Bernie Bros crack me up. She won the last election, at least by the popular vote, and she’ll win the next one too. Have a little faith.
Glib optimism is no answer or antidote for the looming Trump Apocalypse .. . much less poor milt’mellow’s misplaced crocodile tears or the ingrained DNC institutional tribalism which is only too often one of mistrust, fear and even hatred against other members of the tribe.
*Besides, Mrs. Clinton will be a little long-in-the-tooth in 2020 to embark on a ‘completely different’ path, imho.
Bernie Sanders is no spring chicken either. But I believe he had chance back in ’16 to break free, once for all, from the vicissitudes of partisan politics. After Mrs. Clinton locked-up the DNC nomination, Sanders could have taken his ill-gotten gains, told the DNC to go phuck themselves, and steamrolled both the left and right to victory, independently. .. which is what he is, after all.
Benito, my friend, you’re always so perceptive, almost clairvoyant, I’m afraid. Unbeknownst to the ordinary, unsophisticated, worthless, plebeian, proletariat riffraff known as the democratic voter, Mr. Perez has already conceded to Mr. Saban that he has no choice but to re-nominate Mrs. Clinton (also known in some circles as The Queen of England), because the superdelegates are “still with her.” Mr. Perez will do a fine job for the Democratic party.
How am I privy to such sensitive information you ask. It’s very simple really. Used to be, I could see Russia from my house. But now Russia is in my house, on my TV, and on my Internet. Everything is finally clear.
Si, Duce, si! Since the big corporate donors contribute to both sides, the DNC is covered either way. Shillary and Co. can carve up the campaign money, live high on the hog, and run again in 2024. After 8 years of Bannon , the Dems can’t lose. So it’s win-win for all. And Palestine be damned!
Latest CNN poll gives Perez a 27 point lead over Trump for the 2020 elections…lol.
I can come back to the party now!
I have no faith in humanity, Americans specifically, or the U.S. government, so none of this is shocking. But as an amateur political junkie, I believe the near future is definitely going to get interesting. I’m looking forward to watching our corrupt government “circle the drain” (credit to George Carlin).
Not surprised. Ellison younger years as a Nation of Islam supporter, protecting anti Semitic Farrakhan, have come to hunt him. I don’t blame the Jewish people who recoiled from his nomination and neither should anyone else.
If you look up ‘Semite’ in an etymology book, you will see it means desert people and Palestinians, Arabs, Bedouin and all those rabble know nothing about the desert. Look at the genealogy of Israelis, desert dwellers to the core. I am sick of all this antisemitism and those Palestinians need to go back to where they came from and leave Israelis alone, who have been there for thousands of years.
A study by Haber et al. (2013): “all Jews (Sephardi and Ashkenazi) cluster in one branch;
We confirm the notion that the Ashkenazi, North African, and Sephardi Jews share substantial genetic ancestry and that they derive it from Middle Eastern and European populations.
Democrats heading for yet another debacle. Maybe they can blame it all on Putin again.
Keith Ellison votes against Israel all the time in Congress. Linda Sarsour is a One Stater wishing for Israel’s dissolution as rest of these Muslim anti Zionism antisemitic purveyors. Ellison has no excuse for joining NOI rabid antisemitic group. The question is why is he allowed to remain in Congress.
Dems are Dead- TIME for MASS EXODUS now, finally….Corporate Dem Leadership pick Establishment candidate Perez for DNC! Surprise?#DemExit DEM ADIOS join in the DEM EXODUS and GreenEnter… http://www.GP.org
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDu7jw04NPkUng2tT2Tictw
We’ve left the TV propaganda age and we’re in the information age.
Fake progressives lose to real anything every time, even if that real thing is a Drumpf.
But Wall Street’s DNC will never learn.
Fake progressives lose to real anything every time, even if that real thing is a Drumpf.
This is it in a nutshell. No, the DNC will never learn, and the vote yesterday proved that again.
Where is the party for the real progressives? And is it possible for such a party to grow beyond holding a few seats in local races, given the role of money in politics/elections?
I know, “politics is local”. I get it, but the kind of change we need also requires some grand scale stuff. City council won’t cut it.
So, honestly, I’m looking for some encouragement here. What does a strong, effective opposition party look like now? If not, what will it take to make that possible?
So sad and disappointing! There is no Democratic Party. The Democrats have lost the Senate, the House, the White House and countless state houses but just continue along with the same corporate policies and the same Wall Street policies. And as for Israel, I realized when I saw news from other countries that israel is the vicious bully in the region. And Israel is bullying Democrats too. Someday it will all come down……
Israel was attacked on the day it was born & has been under continuing attack ever since. Israel is just trying to defend itself.
It is a sinking ship. We are talking about a party that after blaming Sanders’ supporters, went on to blame Russia. The language used is always framed as Russia “hacking our election”. Actually, they may or may not have hacked Podesta. The information that was read just reinforced the fact that she was a heavily flawed candidate. That is not hacking our election. Oh, and of course there are actual ways that were used against Hillary, the main one being Interstate Crosscheck. But for some reason, they are too spin- less to talk about that.
And what it comes down to with these Clinton backers versus the Left is identity politics vs issue politics. Identity trumps vision I guess. And with the establishment Demos, there is no clear articulation of values on purpose, or ones that are not blurry and ill-defined as to not offend current big donors, or lose the prospect of new big donors. Let them sink.
And I noticed it last night, the Ellison smear campaign. And again, we see in those articles a mis-use of language. In these smear articles they link his views of defending Palistines to being anti-Semitic. Shame on the Democrat echo chamber, and those who fall for the lies every time.
Ellison was the mouthpiece for Nation of Islam throughout his college days and after he received his law degree. He was and to some degree still is an antisemite, anti Zionist, misogynist Muslim supremacist. Now he and his co-religionists will blame this loss on the Jews (perennial scapegoats) or newly accepted cod word ‘Zionists’. Ellison isn’t pro Palestinian. That really doesn’t exist. He is anti Zionist to be accurate. It’s only understandable that Ellison’s past would become an issue as it reveals a lot about his lack of character & his beliefs. His votes in senate has always been anti Israel just like the communist Sanders who support each other. To pretend he’s not for BDS is a joke.
BDS? What’s BDS?
“His votes in senate has always been anti Israel just like the communist Sanders who support each other…”
So what time is it? In NY City it is 8.58.
My guess is that it is almost breakfast time where Sanders is ‘communist’ and Ellison “votes in Senate.”
It is almost midnight for Zionism.
This is a good thing, in exactly the same way that getting an unpleasant but **accurate** medical diagnosis is a good thing.
The Dem “leadership” caste, the consultants, the yes-men, the gladhanders WILL NOT LEAVE. They’re going to cling to the host like ticks. The only sensible thing — jarring and traumatic though it may seem — is to let them have it. Lefties need to simply walk away from the Democratic Party altogether, and let them damn thing rot and die on its own.
With any luck 2018 will be the final stake in the zombie. Already you can see the outlines of Dem “strategy” for that campaign: “Donald Trump is a bad man”. Hey, it worked so well in 2016, right?
Good inspiration for activists and inspiring activists. Have a good laugh as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npZF5gJHhZM&t=2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pbTmXsfiYk
There you have it, eight years of Trump. Let’s hope the empire crumbles fast, that’s about all we can look forward to. Republicans and Democrats, Demolicans and Repucrats, it makes little difference which set of corrupt corporate clowns are running the show anymore.
Ellison lost? Big deal, I wouldn’t support him given that he clearly puts emphasis on his religious beliefs. Democrats love to chastise religious right wing nutjobs well this man should be no different. Democrats chose to thrown in with Muslims and trannies/gays but guess what? They are incompatible. Guess what happens to a LGBT person in a Muslim country? LOL
Democrats learned absolutely nothing, still believe Hillary won the election #HopelessFools ** Time to change how we elect our officials in this country, from the ground up
I’m at loss understanding whom do these people actually represent?
Must be a liberal thingie. Maybe I can find clues on huffpost.
close.
not a liberal thingy, a wallstreet thingy. an anything for money thingy of people who have a mental disorder of phobias concerning common-ness, ordinariness, and see equality as a threat.
liberal means flexible, tolerant, open
conservative means hording, strict, closed
these are not value systems, they are attitudes.
Yeah, I see that you are still in elementary school.
it may appear that way to some
just didnt understand your comment
no offence meant
The tenets of classic European liberalism are quite different from what passes as liberalism in this country nowadays.
Von Mises and Hayek had to write preface to their books, on that specific topic, when they were published in the US.
Your description above really sounds childish
Wall Street’s corruption guaranteed Perez; proof all Dems are dead weight.
If you weren’t with Bernie before, Trump is your fault alone for not focusing on Wall Street’s corruption.
If you’re not now 100% with Bernie you’ll continue to suffer and suffer and suffer.
It is probably just a coincidence that Israel gets its way again.
The American people are pro-Israel.
I wish that Ellison would have won, if only to get Alan Dershowitz to leave the party.
The little parasite strikes again. They control both parties.
The DNC headquarters in Jerusalem has the final say so.
Jimmy Dore: Democrats Won’t Win Until They Admit Barack Obama Had Horrible Financial Policies
This segment goes into how the Democrats really are only good at ‘the talk’ and don’t really represent a solution to the endemic corporatism and other corruptions that keep half the nation poor.
James Comey, who was on the board of directors at HSBC bank, a bank that gave $81 million to the Clinton Foundation, is also the current head of…
Tom Perez, like Keith Ellison, is a fine candidate. Not every competition needs to be treated as a life or death battle for the Democratic Party. Ellison got treated like crap by some detractors but it wasn’t done by Perez! They share similar ideals, even if Bernie backed Ellison.
Furthermore, it’s like some of you truly haven’t learned a goddamned thing from the Presidential election: that the differences between the moderate and more liberal wings of the party are cracks in the sidewalk compared to the chasms between Democrats and Republicans. Even with Trump wreaking chaos, some of you are too unfathomably dense to realize this! Private prisons are back, healthcare on the chopping block, immigrants fearing for their families, deregulation, a pathological liar in the WH, etc. Get a clue.
Regardless of the outcome, Democrats face an uphill battle. They have 25 seats exposed, compared to eight for the Republicans in 2018. With all the outrage here, you’d think the DNC chair was a competition to crown the most progressive candidate. It isn’t, the DNC head is a glorified fundraiser who has to appeal to the mainstream AND more progressive groups.
Trump in 2018 and 2020 a super majority for sure in 2018. Democrats are no longer credible. ?????
The minor differences between D’s and R’s are what keep millions of voters at home. Wake up
Only seasoned ignoramuses believe they are one and the same.
I am certainly willing to give Perez a chance to prove himself willing to lead a rejuvenated progressive Democratic Party, but I’m not optimistic, given the cast of characters who supported him. Clearly, top leaders are more concerned with maintaining their own positions of power than helping the party get itself off the floor. God, how I wish that the Clintons and their ilk would just exit the stage and never come back.
Perez is a Clintonite so it is going to be more of the same. Ellison was an awful choice as well.
Shumer who is the top democrat supported Ellison.
Perez is awful as he is a Clintonite. Ellison sucks too though. Democrats choosing to remain corporatist cronies just cements them as garbage that doesn’t want to learn.
Yep, everybody sucks according to you.
Great contribution!
The DNC head is a glorified toadie whose job is to lick Wall Street’s balls until some big donations spurt out, isn’t that what you mean to say?
So your point is, everybody should rally around the same proven incompetents who lost to a carnival barker. (As well as, over the years, most state governments.)
I’m not even an Ellison partisan. The ONLY purpose for Perez candidacy (since we’re always assured that there’s so little difference between them) is to carry water for the same entrenched DNC wizards who’ve made such a shamble of things.
Dems reward failure time after time, and expect something terrific to come out of it. No wonder we have President Trump! It’s time to start placing bets on how badly the Dems are going to get crushed in 2018.
“a fine candidate”? Civilians in the US shouldn’t be putting our hopes in “fine candidates” who will inevitably deceive and attack us. The Democratic party is at its core committed to capitalism, and thus to the attack by Capital on working people and humanity. Also, before wagging your finger to Intercepters about what they haven’t learned — even as you idiotically parrot conventional thinking (read: ruling class lies) about imaginary differences between the two right wing, pro-establishment parties — educate yourself. The chaos that Trump and company are wreaking is the result of the bipartisan consensus that precedes him and which endures.
So your saying the democrats would have won if they had a platform which said they would no longer be commited to capitalism. Sheesh.
i’m not sure why this isn’t clear, but Capital isn’t really short on representation these days.
Where did I say it was Colonel?
I asked if the poster thought the Democrats would have a better chance if they declared they were no longer committed to capitalism.
connect the dots: if both Parties are representing Capital, who does that leave out?
There is a difference in supporting the capitalism as an economic system and representing capital. But nice try again at misrepresenting what I was saying.
excellent. now apply the distinction to Vivek’s comment.
you mean the part where Vivek wrote: “The Democratic party is at its core committed to capitalism”
I take that to mean Viv thinks the democratic party should no longer be committed to capitalism. What do you think it means?
oh, ffs. had i realized you were playing games i wouldn’t have bothered.
thank you. i believe that’s all.
“The result of bipartisan consensus that precedes him”?
What rock were you living under for the past decade!?
bernie and ellison share similar ideals….
yeah, they both believe that ice cream is best served cold
differences are but cracks in the sidewalk…
uh huh. you can break an arm tripping on a sidewalk crack
Trump wreaking chaos….
that’s a bad thing?
anything Trump does we can undo
the dumb&dumbers elites of the dem party need to get it thru their dumb heads that running against trump is what lost them.
but duh – perez is just a trick’le down guy
We’re sunk. Our goose is cooked. I give up. The Democratic Party must be taken by force. There is no other path forward – to a livable future. The banksters are in the Whitehouse! Their audacity knows no bounds, going forward, as they have control of both houses. The oligarchs’ pay-to-play legislators and governors in are in the choke-hold of the “machine”. Where is the efin’ OPPOSITION PARTY? Bernie Sanders, Keith, Raul Grijalva – Call Jill Stein or Margaret Flowers of underlings. Same to you, Greens. Or, “Welcome to the machine” – Pink Floyd.
The elites who in control of this Dem “Opposition Party”, are no better or worse than the lying banksters themselves. No wonder Clinton2 never happened! This efin news reflects a low-down criminality. America is sick – sick at heart. Stick a fork in me, i’m done.
I’m confused Bob. Are you giving up or taking the Democratic party by force?
To do anything but initiate an internal hostile takeover of the DNC
would be tantamount to sanctioning planet collapse. The billionaires,
their moles and their proxies are not that well hidden inside the DNC.
Let’s Seek them out!
Let’s demand their credentials a d show them the door. These freeloaders
will not be missed. They are the problem. Our Planet is at stake. Life itself.
Perez, his backers act like mobsters and hucksters. Unkind DINOs must go.
We must block them at Congress – in the media and in the streets – at their
offices and business addresses. We must protest. Every precinct office. Every
county. Every state. The attempted hostile take over by Clinton2, last election
is not over it seems. Her cronies, like Perez must be called out for what they
are – petty criminals taking orders from wall street banksters.
We American poor, disenfranchised, minorities and the “not crazy religious fanatics”
and what’s left of the middle-class wage earners – WE MUST REVERSE COURSE!
We have just witnessed the loss of the People’s candidate, Bernie Sanders to get
a fascist – now Keith Ellison is the sacrificial lamb and Planet Earth. No way will
we let the hucksters take us down the dead-end path – AGAIN! This is the most
egregious attack on American values, since we as civilized people, decided to leave
the English Empire. To continue on the current path of war-for-profit and healthcare-for-profit are immoral insanities that dehumanize all who are forced into a darkness of spirit. That people of goodwill are witnessing today’s dark times, pales in comparison to the so-called “Medieval Dark Age”. Makes loving people want to hurl, is my take.
So, after losing to Trump largely because they refused to admit that the voters want an alternative to the political establishment in this country and burned Bernie, they still have their heads so far up their posteriors that they turn around and do the same thing yet again. If the Democrats don’t get their act together and admit that their establishment is defunct, then we’re looking at 8 years of Trump, or at least some mix of Trump and Pence, after Trump gets impeached (I think the Republicans are just waiting a couple of years so Pence will be eligible for two full terms).
I had more than a hunch that Ellison’s Muslim religion and all that The Intercept documented played out. Another shot in the foot by establishment Dems. Looks like they’re giving Trump a second term. “When will they ever learn” to coin a famous lyric.
For those that do not know , THE DNC VIOLATED THEIR BYLAWS WHEN THEY DECIDED LAST MINUTE TO NOT RECORD THE VOTE ,
Donna VIOLATED , the DNC BYLAWS , by not making it able for persons to know who each delegate voted for
He was still made the Deputy DNC Chair. People are reading way too much into this stuff.
And, you have hereby made it plain to one and all that you did not read this piece by Zaid or you’d have known better than to write what you did.
Yes. agree. They will work together. Let’s get it together. Everything is at stake here!
The Dems absorbed Ellison because otherwise he and supporters would have formed a THIRD PARTY
Which is still what needs to be done.
If Ellison was a genuine backer for Sanders, he can leave the Democratic Party and revive the momentum that Bernie generated. If not, well, he has been exposed.
not yet
Keith is learning the ropes
wait and see
Deputy DNC Chair
Throw the dog a bone. Heel!
I appreciate that Perez realised the tension in the party. But Ellison’s gift position is the equivalent of Sanders’ door prize of input into the Democratic platform. It’s basically meaningless. Did anyone ever mention the democratic platform during the entire presidential campaign?
I don’t know if Clinton/ Perez supporters realise this, but drafting someone to beat Ellison while smearing him as anti-Semitic is one more slap in the face to the party’s progressives. I predict numerous third party challengers to non-progressive Dems next year. As destructive as it may be, I fully support it.
Exactly. The fact of the matter is in non presidential election years 95% of the public couldnt name either party chair, much less base there votes on who the chair is. What’s interesting is that all the conspiracy nuts and the Greens who voted for Trump and Jill Stein are crying that they won’t vote democract again.
“What’s interesting is that all the conspiracy nuts and the Greens who voted for Trump and Jill Stein are crying that they won’t vote democract again.”
Of course, you have no way of knowing that. But you wouldn’t be a believing, 2017 Dem unless you **had** to blame all those ingrates for **your** party’s lousy performance.
Your attitude, the generalized disdain of the Left, will of course appear yet again from the geniuses behind Democratic Party “strategy”. And by 2019, after the blowout, they’ll be blaming yet again those leftie ingrates for not showing up.
I dont consider conspiracy theorists part of the left. The Greens vote Green not with the Democrats. I wasnt blaming anyone for HRCs loss. Before you tell me about my attitude how about reading my post more carefully.
No, it isn’t the election of Perez as DNC chief that would keep me from voting democrat, it’s the democrats themselves, you know, people like you. Why would I ever want to consider that we are on the same side?
So your not voting Democratic because you don’t like democrats in general and me specifically. Well it’s a democracy, you get to vote for who ever you want. As for why you would consider us to be on the same side, given that you have not stated any position other you don’t like democrats or me I have no idea herme.
and yet, here we are reading and discussing one of many articles on the matter.
hey! you think it might have something to do with the fact that the prior 2 chairs were shown to be involved in corruption scandals? hmmm….
stay the course! you’re doing the Lord’s work.
Are you seriously saying the posters on TI represent 95% of the voters? If not whats your point. The past two may have been involved in scandals but the debate isn’t about who is more honest between Perez and Ellison is it?
I’m not doing anyone’s work Colonel my posting is for amusement purposes only. My amusement.
see your own comment (i provided a quote to indicate the specific sentence i was referring to, but you ought remember the context since it was your own statement), and then read my response again.
there is plenty of coverage (“many articles”) on the subject. it’s obviously a matter of some interest and significance to a great many people. please don’t try to obscure such a straight and simple point. i also explained exactly why so many people are paying attention, given the fact that the contested position has been key in the execution of the will of the corrupt Party hierarchy.
it’s a little transparent on your part to openly attempt to obfuscate such an obvious issue as the continued corruption of the Democrat Party given the fact that it’s explained here and elsewhere in copious detail.
I did see my own comment Colonel. My comment was that most people don’t care about who the chair of the DNC is, and most won’t base their vote on it. You somehow think that you countered that argument by saying it is of interest to a great number of people, that is a relative term which in no way counters my claim. What exactly did I “obfuscate”? The article we are responding to has to do with who supported which candidates and for what reasons, none of which had to do with either being corrupt. I have no idea what you mean by saying my post was transparent please explain what you are seeing so clearly Colonel.
i can’t tell if you’re going this intentionally or if you really can’t follow a thread.
clearly people do care about the chair now, and for obvious and justified reasons. you see that, right?
I see that some people care yes. I didn’t say they don’t but:
1) most of the people on TI who care don’t vote for for Democrats anyway.
2) most of the electorate do not care.
And again please tell me what exactly did I “obfuscate” and how the article is about the corruption of past DNC chairs.
People are allowed to care they don’t need reasons justified or otherwise, I never said they shouldn’t I just said the vast majority don’t. Not sure why you have the need to twist my words, For someone who claims I’m transparent you have a great need to twist what I am saying around.
you almost have me convinced that it isn’t intentional.
Hobart typed;
you replied;
if this is not intended to suggest that the interest in the matter, the attempt to interpret its importance, is misplaced, that the event is insignificant and the story itself (and all the coverage and discussion elsewhere) unnecessary or misguided, what is the intent of these statements?
the seat was contested by competing factions of the DNC. i can see why this might not interest you, and certainly most people don’t follow such events or even read the news in general with much regularity. but the significance of the event has been properly explained here and elsewhere.
It’s intended to suggest that this won’t make any difference come next election to the vast majority of voters. I didn’t say anything about the attempt to interpret the event, did I ?
Let me see. Is that office honorific or is it code for being co-opted?
Looks like the Iron Rule of Oligarchy is operating here.
Naive to think Dem establishment will reform to become people oriented versus corporate oriented. Ask yourself by what mechanism that would occur. Corporate donations fund American politics. The system will never allow that to change. And that fact disallows a leftward migration of the Dem party
As I said in the other thread on this topic, follow the money!
The Democratic party is the consultants and politicians who are collecting the stream of dollars from Saban and his cohorts. They don’t give a hoot about anything else; ignoring the middle class, labor, and the party going down the tube.
They get it. They know why they lost. The just don’t care.
so the pimped out elected whores have taken a lesson and learned from ORGANISED CRIME….. make it legal!
too legit….
Let us leave Never-Never Land and examine The Very Real and Duplicitous Function of the Democratic Party in the American Political System.
The Democratic Party plays an indispensable role in society’s political machinery. This doesn’t mean it has any power, in terms of controlling the state or setting policy. It means that without the existence of the Dem Party, the US could no longer maintain the pretense that it’s a “democracy.” If the Dem Party disintegrated, the US would be revealed for what it really is — a one-party state ruled by a narrow alliance of business interests.
In terms of defending the general population against the depredations of this business consortium, the Dem Party gave up the ghost in the mid-1960’s. Their threadbare act as the “Party of the People” serves not to defend the well-being of the population, but merely to persuade ordinary citizens that within the official political system’s framework, there’s at least some faint hope for eventual progressive change. Their focus is not so much being on our side, as convincing us that they’re on our side — without the slightest serious examination of what that might entail.
The party’s true function is thus largely theatrical. It doesn’t exist to fight for change, but only to pose as a force which one fine distant day might possibly bestir itself to fight for change. Thus the whole magic of the Dem Party — the essential service it renders to the US power structure — lies not in what it does, but in its mere existence: by simply existing, and doing nothing, it pretends to be something it’s not; and this is enough to relieve despair & to let the system portray itself as a “democracy.”
As long as the Dem Party exists, most Americans will believe we have a “democracy” and a “choice” in how we are ruled. They will not despair, and will not revolt, as long as they have this hope for “change within the system.” From the system’s point of view, this mechanism serves as the ultimate safety valve — it insures against a despairing populace, thus eliminates the threat of rebellion; yet guarantees that no serious change to the system will be mounted, because the Dems weren’t designed to play that role in the first place.
Aren’t the Dems The Lesser Evil?
The Democrats are not the “lesser evil;” they are an auxiliary subdivision of the same evil. To understand the political system, one must step back and regard its operation as an integrated whole. The system can’t be properly understood if one’s study of it begins with an uncritical acceptance of the 2-party system, and the conventional characterizations of the two parties. (Indeed, the fact that society encourages one to view it in this latter way, is perhaps a warning that this perspective should not be trusted.)
Any given piece of reactionary legislation is invariably supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats. Does this show that the Democrats are “less evil?” If one focuses on the noble efforts of the few outspoken dissenters, it’s easy to feel that the Democrats are somewhat less evil. But in the larger picture, Democrats invariably submit to what Republicans more ardently promulgate, & the entire range of official opinion thereby shifts to the right. Thus the overall function of Democrats is not so much to fight, as to quasi-passively participate in this ever-rightward-moving process. Just as the Harlem Globetrotters need their Washington Generals to make their basketball games properly entertaining, Republicans need the Democrats for effective staging of the political show.
The Democrats are permitted to exist because their vague hint of eventual progressive change keeps large numbers of people from bolting the political system altogether. Emma Goldman once said, “If voting made a difference, it would be illegal.” Similarly, if the Democrats potentially threatened any sort of serious change, they would be banned. The fact that they are fully accepted by the corporations and political establishment tells us at once that their ultimate function must be wholly in line with the interests of those ruling groups.
The very modestly-sized progressive Dem faction is cynically used as a marketing tool by the national party. They are dangled before your eyes to make you think that the Dems are the “lesser evil” (since the Republicans offer no such Left decorations). The existence of a few decent Dems makes no real difference in the overall alignment of the party, and they will never be internally influential. They are a distraction.
Can Progressives “Take Over” the Dem Party?
The argument is often advanced by progressives that they might be able to “take over” the Dem Party just as the Republican Party was supposedly “taken over” by the Religious Right and neoconservatives. This is wishful thinking, and ignores the actual history and character of both parties.
The Republicans were always the party of Wall Street & Northern manufacturing. The Democrats were the party of the Southern slaveocracy. When the national Democrats defied southern racism by passing the Civil Rights Acts in the mid ’60’s, the southern states bolted, destroying the New Deal coalition. The Republicans profited from this by adapting to southern tastes, values, & religious/cultural conceptions.
But this was in no way out of character for the Republicans. The far right was able to take over the Republican Party because that kind of alliance was always very much in the nature of the Republican Party anyway. It was compatible with, not contradictory to, the big-business nature of the Republican party. Forming an alliance with fascists, racists & religious zealots ADVANCED the big-business agenda.
By contrast, for progressives to take over the Democrats would be an unprecedented departure from the party’s character. To understand this, one must first recognize that the sole Dem claim to being progressive is rooted almost entirely in the New Deal, itself a response to a unique crisis in American history. FDR recognized that to avert the very real threat of massive social unrest and instability, significant concessions had to be made to the working class by the ruling class. Government could act to defend the weak, and to some extent to rein in the strong, but this was all in the long term interests of defending the existing social order.
Before FDR, the Dem Party had no progressive record whatsoever; and after FDR, though the New Deal coalition survived until the mid-1960’s, it did so with a record of achievement that was restrained compared to the 1930’s. After passing Medicare in 1965 the party reverted to its long term pattern, and since then, there has again been no progressive record to speak of. The party’s progressive social reform was thus concentrated mostly in the 1930’s, with some residual momentum lasting until the mid 60’s. The party’s “progressive period” was thus 1) an exception to the longer term pattern; 2) a response to a unique crisis; and 3) has in any case been dead for over 50 years.
If the word “progressive” (weasel word alert) refers to the commitment of a political party to defend the interests of the working class (aka the overwhelming majority of the population) against the depredations of the ruling elite. Not only is the Democratic Party unable and unwilling to engage in such a fight, it is unwilling even to pronounce the fight’s name — “class warfare.” Marx is understandably reviled by capitalists for his annoyingly accurate perception that the capitalist class and the rest of the population have a fundamental conflict of interest. Capital seeks only to maximize its return; return can certainly be enhanced by using the machinery of state to transfer costs and burdens to the weak and vulnerable; thus rule by capital is intrinsically inimical to the basic interests of the majority of the population. There is no escaping this reality.
American public discourse attempts to paper over this vexing truth with fatuous happy talk, such as, “By working together, we can make make things better for everyone!” This is a lie. When capital controls government, government is no more than a tool used by elites to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. This kind of arrangement cannot possibly “make all boats rise” over the long term. Only the yachts will rise. If there is no political mechanism for opposing plutocratic rule, the strong will continue to squeeze additional wealth out of the weak until a) the weak become desperate and rebel, b) the weak are crushed and become permanently enslaved, or c) the strong begin suffering more from guilty consciences, than reaping enjoyment from additional wealth — and therefore relent. (Very few instances of this last are known in recorded history.)
For the Democratic Party to even begin to serve as a vehicle for opposing the absolute rule of capital, it would at a minimum have to be capable of acknowledging the conflict that exists between the interests of capital and the rest of the population; and of expressing a principled determination to take the side of the population in this conflict.
A party whose controlling elements are millionaires, lobbyists, fund-raisers, careerist apparatchiks, consultants, and corporate lawyers; that has stood by prostrate and helpless (when not actively collaborating) in the face of stolen elections, illegal wars, torture, CIA concentration camps, lies as state policy, and one assault on the Bill of Rights after the next, is not likely to take that position.
^^^^THIS^^^^^
You nailed it.
This is nonsense. The fact that the asshat trump one in spite of not having the support of any of either party proves the fallacy of your argument. Capitalism sucks but I’d take it compared with any Marxist inspired gov’t that has existed. Or can you point to an example where such a gov’t caused all boats to rise? The fact is that “progressive” is a weasel word only to the dishonest who have an agenda that has nothing to do with reforming the democracy we have and is only interested in tearing it down.
marxism is a state of public ownership of life support for the purpose of individual power over thieves who use “capitalism” to deprive people to rob them.
the US does not have a real economic sytem of capitalism, it is an extortive con which is generally identified as a PONZI SCHEME and it is run by a collective of criminals
YOU WILL LOSE.
btw, one is spelled won, idiot.
Really? what type of “sytem” does it have Einstein?
i repeat-
the economic system in the US is a predatory privitised ponzi valuation system run by criminals with a printing press (originally from germany where amsdel rothschild stole $3M from his boss) who perpetrate that system upon the public to rob the public – eventually – of ownership of public property.
Sorry that is not a definition of an economic system, or at least the one in the US, or anywhere else. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of economics knows this. Printing money that isnt backed by real wealth results in hyper inflation, like they are experiencing in Venezuela.
“Just as the Harlem Globetrotters need their Washington Generals to make their basketball games properly entertaining, Republicans need the Democrats for effective staging of the political show.” Nice analogy.
Direct democracy and liberalism has always been hated. Our system is the Lucchese crime family vs Gambino.
That’s it. I’m done with these fuckweasels. I’ve been voting democrat for 51 years, and today I’m done. The craphead corporate Clintonshits and Obusha’s have finally driven me out. I think I’ll register as a socialist as it seems to work well in Washington State, but we’ll see. God how I loathe those DLC bastards.
Are you sure about that, Jessiejean? ha ha
Ellison remaining in Congress is the most positive spin I’ve seen.
Perhaps he will regain his spine too.
While the DemExit crowd grows, I hope each and every one keeps paying attention to the DNC shenanigans and raises a stink about every anti-progressive, Big Money coddling action.
The Dem establishment is counting on Trump to make them look appealing again, and he may well succeed if the well deserved criticism of the Democrats diminishes.
Double down people.
I am weary of the notion that “if only candidate X manages to win…” cast a vote, or maybe do a little rallying, sign a petition or two, send a check for $15… you know, really get behind it! /s
change if we’ll achieve it, is going to require a change of scale of involvement…
“representation” in government is completely broken.
changing one party official is like singing the same song, but this time with a different instrument!
more cowbell!
Is there even a difference between Haim Saban and Sheldon Adelson?
Sheldon didn’t support Killary?
Scary isn’t it? AIPAC owns both parties.
Sheldon bribes republicans with Gambling money, Haim bribes Democrats with money from making dubs/rewrites of Japanese cartoons and Tokuatsu shows. That’s about it.
The fact that you’re quoting Linda Sarsour, a guy from Al Jazeera, and the usual Brookings Institute is pretty solid evidence that you have no idea why Democrats lost in November. I mean, Linda Sarsour, really? I’m still floored by that.
you mean ’cause they’re beholden to the Zionists?
No, but Samantha is.
Really? How?
Oh right, you guys blame everything on zionists. Sorry I forgot for a second.
Zionism and neoconservatism certainly share blame for the sort of unabashed Islamaphobia Samantha offered in her post.
Not so. But it’s clear that antisemitism, unashamed and basking in the sun, is on fully display, by yourself and others here.
Now I think I understand. “Winning” an election was never really the goal to begin with.
do you believe that the DNC, indeed the entire electorate, should be pursuing and reinforcing Zionist policy and objectives?
do you believe that the only reason not to do so is antisemitism?
are those who read AJ or Sansour antisemitic for doing so?
what about having a name like, Zaid? should we have just left it at that?
On second thought, you sound very ______________.
Perhaps your way of life is being threatened and suddenly you are getting defensive and were told by somebody that people who do not ascribe to your favor or who object to are “the enemy” and “allied with Russia”.
Please tell me… please
WHY DID HILLARY LOSE?
please.
and antisemitism is indicated by reference to AJ and Sarsour?
should US policy and the electorate be held hostage to the objectives of Zionism? is the rejection of that premise sufficient to warrant the label of antisemitism?
does the rejection of Islamaphobia constitute antisemitism?
The stubborn, piggish corruption of the Clinton/Obama machine will never stop until they have destroyed the Democratic party, once and for all. This win by Perez tells me that they would rather see Trump in office for 8 years than fight for real change in this country.
no— let’s pull it together folks. enough shooting ourselves in the feet
The thing to do is let them have it, and walk away. Let the Democratic zombie die.
As somebody recently said, the Dems real mission isn’t to win. It’s to prevent the election of real progressives at any cost.
Their umbrage at Trump is just an affectation..
So sorry Keith Ellison didn’t win. I had hopes of changing the Democratic party so it was no so full it itself. It was clearly their fault that Trump won. They were careful to cruelly snub their base, the working class, unions make sure they lost. If they don’t give up this ridiculous neoliberalism stuff they can just go to hell. But inspire of endless evidence that their loss was self inflicted they refuse to change their ways. Because they are more interested in scaring away their base and going after rich Harvard Graduates t hey will lose again. After a lifetime of voting Democratic I voted for Jill Stein. If they don’t change their ways we will again have Donald Trump in the White House. In my opinion He is a good reason to move out of the country because we are no good anymore.
This is @tinyrevolution’s (a.k.a. Jon Schwrz ) “Iron law of Institutions”….
*The people who control institutions care first and foremost about their power within the institution rather than the power of the institution itself. Thus, they would rather the institution “fail” while they remain in power within the institution than for the institution to “succeed” if that requires them to lose power within the institution.*
It’s a good thing that ideological conflict is breaking out within the Democratic party and people are questioning the leaders of the Democratic party and the interests they serve. I believe in honesty, and if a coalition that incorporates those who are in the Dem party because they are light-Republicans and those who view these light-Republicans as a problematic elite can’t hold together so be it.
It’s going to be classic in 2018 and 2020 when the Democratic party loses what remains of their presence at the federal level and barely holds on in their few west coast and NE strongholds.
And they’ll go right for the same excuses–people are stupid and vote against their own self-interest, the Democratic party establishment can’t fail, it can only be failed by voters who they believe owe their votes to the Dems because they aren’t quite as bad as Republicans.
They will literally never learn, they are too craven and wedded to their belief that they must have huge corporate donations to win elections, it creates no conflict of interest to rotate in an out of the public and private sector, and that they are the technocratic meritocratic winners in life.
When they are really part of the same class interest the Republicans represent the Dems establishment simply believes women should have a right to abortion, the plebes should get some slightly better scraps off the rich man’s table, and the LGBT members of society should be treated equally before the law.
The working and middle class really have no representation in this country. And that’s a situation that can’t hold for much longer.
The other problem Dems have is that they are Elitist, looking down their noses at the middle class…..ie…The Deplorables.
They don’t care about the labor unions either. They take them for granted.
You need to realize we are reverting to a society where ‘middle class’ is what it historically has been in human existance: those who are elevated to a position between the elites and the people, predicated of course on serving and protecting the interests of the elite.
You are referring to a middleclass subset of the people, all of which have no power.
it’s not that the Democrats didn’t learn,
it’s that
They don’t want to learn.
(big difference)
It’s not even that. They just have interests that supersede stuff like winning, the interests of their base, and so on.
(Upton Sinclair)
Exactly!
The donor money goes to political operations, which have been there for decades. They only care about what’s good for them. The best we can do is support alternative organizations and put up strong candidates to start ousting Dems in solid Blue districts 1st. Classic liberals should take their place.
They’re still playing the, we’re not the evil Republicans card. It’s just messaging to them without any substance. I really hope we can primary some Blue State Dems to send a message. These parasites need to go down before they destroy us.
dp before next election “the progressives will have no choice but to support us, after all the alternative is a republican”.
dp after next election “the racists/misogynists will rue the day they didn’t vote for us, again”.
and people still don’t think there isn’t a jewish influence in our media, banks, and film industries. wake up the international jew is the greatest threat to mankind
This was a fair race and he lost, period. Stop making more out of it than what it is. All Democrats want a two-state solution for Israel. We’re not anti-Palistine, nor anti-Muslim or anything of the sort. We can either come together or keep letting Trump and his band of merry white rich men destroy us for good.
Mr. Ellison had to disowned Minister Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam, just like Brack Obama did back 2008, to appease his Jewish critics. Even if Mr. Ellison would have won what good would he have been to making the Democratic Party more influential? If he was willing to disavowed and disowned many years of positive experiences with a grassroots organization, such as the Nation of Islam, to stop negative press coverage of him so that he could win an election. Then, what other principle would he sacrifice to move up the political ladder? Therefore, wether if he would have won or not, Mr. Ellison is no good for social change for the masses of low income Americans.
surprise surprise surprise
the whores for wars and Russia is the enemy beat up America again.
i have good news and bad news
the good news is the US will get a 3RD PARTY!
the bad new is that the DEMOCRAT PARTY IS DOA
ok, i lied about the part where i mentioned that the democrat party is doa, it’s actually good news too.
the real reason the democrat elitist pimps want Russia branded as “the enemy” is a CURRENCY WAR. Many nations are leaving the market by buying gold to back their currencies, including Russia. The US does not want gold back any more than the US wants a silver back (executive order 11110 jfk murdered) because it prevents wallstreet criminals from robbing populations by falsifyng valuations like they are doing right now with the stock market.
Here is the situaton the wallstreet criminals, supported by party pimps, to keep robbing populations.
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/378359-episode-max-keiser-1036/
The US has had 4 currency versions since 1913
1. gold backed
2. silver backed
3. float backed
4. ponzi backed
Please reprint the text of any quoted Tweets instead of linking to third-party sites which maybe blocked by third-party script blockers such as PrvacyBadger.
This kind of arrogance after a fall is a sign for those Democrats who still have all their marbles to pick up the last few dignified shreds, form a new party, pick a new name, and walk away as fast as they can.
Yes, yes, yes.
Both the candidates Perez and Ellison were quite horrible, so I don’t understand what is the problem if either loses for in any case Mohammed Ellison is going to be the second-in-command like Donna Brazile was to Wasserman-Shultz, so he will have the unique opportunity to pass CNN’s debate question’s again to Hillary Clinton, who I am guessing is preparing for her third attempt in the hope that foreign governments will again start donating generously to the Clinton Global Initiative in order to support her family’s extravagant life-style. I am breathless!
The Deep State wins again
maybe not
Democrats shoot themselves in the foot – their left foot? – dissing Bernie and losing the election.
Now the democrats shoot themselves in the other foot.
How smart is that?
Smart enough to telegraph loudly to corporate interests that the status quo is intact and their plaything.
Same with Trump and the GOP – corporate interests know they still win regardless of his ‘outsider’ claims
But that corporate donor thing doesn’t carry so much weight, now. If the Dems want to sell influence — which is pretty much all they’re interested in — they have to **have** influence. And they don’t have a helluva lot. And though 2018 is still a long way off, it’s a pretty safe bet that they’ll have even **less** influence in 2019, because they haven’t learned a goddam thing, and plainly refuse to.
Well, I don’t believe the Democrats and the Republicans are actually on different sides – I think they’re both working ultimately for the same group of elite, super-rich individuals (and what is called the Deep State or shadow government). As “the establishment,” the two largely theatrical opponents are basically just ensuring that they comprise “the only game in town” (meaning that voters are manipulated to feel they have nowhere else to go but one Party or the other, not seeing that both in the final analysis represent corporatism, militarism, imperialism and the surveillance/police state). So each Party takes it in turn to be the Top Dog in this theater, sometimes with great apparent advantage, but really the actually-powerful in both groups are content merely to keep getting to embody the system itself – which serves an oligarchy that cynically oversees the whole looting business of government.
So I reckon you’ll see corporate donors supporting both “sides” even now, lying about funding the just-as-corrupt underdog being “a matter of principle” or some such nonsense, because for the corporate and warmongering interests the status quo needs to continue working just as it has – as an effectively closed system without interference from actual progressive (or even non-aggression libertarian) forces.
But some days I think ordinary people everywhere seem to be at least starting to see through the charade, so perhaps there’s hope after all.
During the Obama-Romney debates, Democracy Now! aired one with 2 Third party candidates in studio, since the 2 major parties collude to prevent 3rd parties from the debates. As a question was posed to the majors, DN! would stop tape and let the 3rd partiers answer as well. After about 5 minutes of this, the only way I could tell the difference between Obama and Romney was by skin color. Honestly, they were engaged in a one-upmanship game only. “I can do that better than He can!” is about all they were saying.
And, after 8 years of false hope and not much change, it’s beyond clear that both parties are bought and paid for. I supported Bernie up until he got cheated out of his rightful place, and now I’m done with the D’s. I voted Green with a clear conscience. Tired of war criminals and their enablers. Tired of this attitude of being taken for granted, as if I have no other choice.
The problem are the ones that voted for Perez. We need regular people to run for these seats. Primary every single one of them. Start a third party if you want, but don’t let them feel too safe in their position.
Piss on the completely corrupt Dems , I now won’t mind when they lose another 1000 legislature seats across the country and their lying bought-off party is permanently destroyed. At least Republicans pretend less that they aren’t corrupt – while still selling out the people. I’ve not voted Republican in my life – but the pro-war center-right Dems actually just encouraged me to spit on their graves and vote for the less hypocritical candidates, the ones actually admitting they support predatory corporate greed killing OUR planet. In my book Dems can end much of their corruption, start talking world peace and stopping America’s global domination wars or perish as just lesser Republicans – and I couldn’t care less.
Glenn asked in his latest piece here what was Obama’s point (Saban) in recruiting Perez, and I think the answer to that is pretty simple. Saban and hard-core establishment Dems are planning on running Hillary Clinton again in 2020, telling themselves she won by enough votes and they just have to campaign better next time. America gagged on her once – but force feeding’s certainly a thing here.
Dem OCD makes ADHD kids beating their heads on walls look the far more calm and rational.
I’ve started following the Justice Democrats, maybe they can pick up the pieces.
In 1964, LBJ said something along the lines that Democrats had lost the SOUTH to the Republicans because of the Civil Rights Bill…a corageous act. In 2016, the Democrats have lost the LEFT for a long time, due to hubris and bloody-minded stupidity.
Not exactly what he said… But yes the fact that it was a Dem president did mean both racists and the blacks they oppressed blamed/thanked the Dems regardless of the congressional votes.
We’ve always been a pretty dumb country as far as holding legislators accountable.
“Not exactly what he said…”. I looked up “lost the South for a generation”, and it appears to be ambiguous as to what LBJ’s exact words were.
Although Perez is evidently repugnant, personally I’m unimpressed by Keith Ellison (I didn’t even know he opposed BDS, but his idiotic stance on foreign policy was pukeworthy enough) – or any other politician from the establishment – but this dismissal of anything that can even be perceived as a challenge to the Zionist-supporting corporatist status quo is so typical of the corrupted Democratic Party that it is almost comical. Giving Ellison a powerless ‘Deputy’ role is a cynical ploy to co-opt the now-desperate progressives that is pure theater – not that Ellsion would really be an efficient socialist or anti-establishment force even if given actual power.
The progressives have been told to know their place, even in this measly situation that was no real threat to the elite to begin with (but perceptions are more important than reality in the advertising business of politics). Sadly Bernie Sanders is also apparently encouraging his supporters to accept this outcome without complaint, further cementing his increasingly pathetic reputation as a ‘revolutionary’ in name only.
The DNC chair doesn’t have much power, in any event. The (predictable) story here is that even Keith Ellison is too far from the center of the Democrat mainstream to be granted even a mostly-ceremonial role.
How many more wooden stakes does this corpse have to drive though its own cold, dead heart before the faithful accept that it is well and truly beyond revival?
Yeah, what you rightly call this ‘mostly-ceremonial’ position of Chair is technically powerless but evidently status/influential enough to matter to those manipulative agents who know perception is all-important. Like you, I have no idea how long it will take for people generally to wise up to the deception.
Bernie is useless. Its time to start the Tulsi Gabbard 2020 campaign fight. I think she also has the guts to run as an independent if she gets screwed.
All one needs to know is that Trump is especially pleased with Perez’s win. Dems can no longer claim the high ground on Islamophobia.
Congrats to Tommie Wasserman Perez!
Why are both sides always Israel Firsters?
Because the Deep State needs Israel’s good will as part of its Full Spectrum Dominance in the region.
What Full Spectrum Dominance?
Follow the money (bribes)!
Thanks a lot, DNC. You do realize there ARE consequences for no lessons learned, right?
In tomorrow’s news: DNC Moves Headquarters to Jerusalem, Capital of Erets Yisrael Hashlema — Principal North American Branch to be Located on Wall Street
They might as well, of course. It’s not as if they’re relevant in, say, Flint or Peoria.
It’s a shame, of course, that Dershowitz won’t be leaving. . . the planet.
and
democrat party puts Yinon Plan back on track.
Democratic Party ( DP ) had a “death wish”. DP itself fulfilled its wish.
The Democratic Party establishment had a chance to ban corporate funds and embrace the progressive ideals that would have brought them gains in congressional races and the general election. They chose their corporate masters instead.
Just waiting for GilG to wade in now…
Dispatches from the United States of Mordor
Well, Progressives can organize on local levels to get local, state, and federal offices. Democrats in Houston did quite well last year. And, if the DNC does not listen. there are always the Greens and Pirates.
Also, we can take solace that the two most corrupt Democratic party leaders since Robert Hannegan are gone.
The Democratic Party just shot itself in the head and putting itself out of its misery might be a good thing. I was never really comfortable with the chances of building a Green Party from the ashes of the DP but your suggestion of the Pirate Party rang a bell. The DP and Reptilian parties would be totally clueless about what being a political pirate means so would write it off as a joke while the young are building a base of support. I bet the people in Iceland would gladly help get things rolling.
Yes, with a pat on the back and undoubtedly many quiet statements how they ‘did the parties work’ by keeping that evil Bernie at bay. Only in one of our two disgusting parties do you get caught cheating, but still get to be in charge and hand off to the next crook…. err, Chairman. Democratic ‘zombie’ party, animated by big money and influence, but with fewer and fewer real supporters. DEAD AS A DOORNAIL.
Exactly. Where progressive forces take over the relatively worthless shell of the party at municipal, county and state levels, or run principled campaigns backing good individual candidates or issues, very good things happen.
Not just Houston. Nevada flipped two House seats, both chambers of the state legislature and elected the first Latina in history to the Senate. Cortez Masto even publicly suggested that the ACA needs fixing. In Phoenix, an amazing coummunity/labor/faith coalition finally dumped Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
So, yeah, Perez, oh well. Just organize. If it makes sense in your area, take over the party, win locally and you’ll build up progressive power within the party. If it makes sense to organize through a third party, do that. But go out, fight and figure out how to win. the left is correct on the issues. Just have to fight.
It’s time for a new party. This one is clearly incapable of reforming itself even when the record demonstrates clear failure over the last twenty years. We also don’t want a party with any taint of bigotry. Unfortunately, as Saban’s threat concerning Jewish donors demonstrates, and Blum’s actions as a UC Regent show, Muslims will not get a fair shake in this country, even in the Democratic Party.
Jesus. The Democrats are so fucked…
Another finger to the democratic party Left.
Congratulations DNC for fucking up once again! I will remain #DEMEXIT and concentrate my energies on building a true progressive movement. I will never never never never vote Demogorgon again. Good luck we are all leaving and we are taking the kids. Sincerely, #PEOPLESPARTY
The Democrats didn’t “fuck up,” as you put it. The Democratic Party represents the liberal faction of corporate America, and this vote defended that representation.