Pressure from the U.S. and Israel forced out a United Nations official, but plenty of Israelis have spoken about their country becoming an apartheid state.
IN HIS MEMOIR, the Israeli journalist Hirsh Goodman described how he returned home from the Six Day War in June 1967 to hear the country’s founding father and first prime minister, David Ben Gurion, speak on the radio. “Israel, he said, better rid itself of the territories and their Arab population as soon as possible,” recalled Goodman. “If it did not Israel would soon become an apartheid state.”
Goodman was born and raised in apartheid-era South Africa. “That phrase, ‘Israel will become an apartheid state,’ resonated with me,” Goodman wrote. “In a flash I understood what he was saying.”
In a flash. Yet fifty years later, despite an entrenched and ongoing occupation, Israel’s defenders angrily reject any invocation of the A-word. Leading U.S. politicians who have dared utter it in relation to Israel, such as John Kerry and Jimmy Carter, have been forced to apologize and backtrack. Last week, the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia (UNESCWA) became the first U.N. agency to publish an official report documenting how “Israel has established an apartheid regime that dominates the Palestinian people as a whole,” and this provoked — as my colleague Glenn Greenwald has noted — a huge furor which led to the U.N. secretariat removing the report from its website and the Jordanian head of the UNESCWA, Rima Khalef, quitting in protest.
Good riddance, say supporters of the Jewish state. To mention the grotesque crime of apartheid in the same sentence as the democratic state of Israel, they claim, is “slander”, a “smear”, a “despicable” and “blatant lie”, a shameful act of “Israel-bashing” and a “new form of anti-Semitism.”
So what, I wonder, does that make Ben Gurion? Dishonest or despicable? How about Yitzhak Rabin, who told a TV journalist in 1976 during the first of his two terms as Israel’s prime minister, “I don’t think it’s possible to contain over the long term, if we don’t want to get to apartheid, a million and a half [more] Arabs inside a Jewish state”? Was he also engaged in a smear campaign against the nation he led?
In recent years, two more former Israeli premiers, Ehud Olmert and Ehud Barak, have echoed their illustrious predecessors’ warnings. Olmert has predicted that “if the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then the State of Israel is finished” while Barak has declared that “if this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.”
Are they Israel bashers, too?
Meanwhile, several high-profile Israelis have suggested that apartheid is not a future risk but a present reality, including former education minister Shulamit Aloni (“Israel practises its own, quite violent, form of apartheid with the native Palestinian population”), former environment minister Yossi Sarid (“what acts like apartheid, is run like apartheid and harasses like apartheid, is not a duck — it is apartheid”) and former attorney general Michael Ben-Yair (“we established an apartheid regime in the occupied territories”).
Others have gone even further, recognizing that Israel is in complete control between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, and extending the apartheid analogy from the occupied West Bank and Gaza to inside the Green Line, to what’s considered Israel proper. Former Foreign Ministry chief Alon Liel, who also served as ambassador to South Africa, has said that “until a Palestinian state is created, we are actually one state. This joint state…is an apartheid state.”
Are we expected to dismiss all of these former Israeli officials as Israel-haters?
And what shall we do with the testimonies of prominent South Africans who defeated apartheid at home — only to be horrified by what they then witnessed in the occupied territories? “I’ve been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land,” wrote the Nobel Peace Price-winning bishop Desmond Tutu in 2002. “It reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa.” A range of senior officials from the African National Congress have backed Tutu’s comparison, including former South African president Kgalema Motlanthe (“the current situation… is worse than conditions were for blacks under the apartheid regime”), current speaker of the South African parliament Baleka Mbete (“far worse than apartheid”) and former South African intelligence minister Ronnie Kasrils (“the Israeli measures, the brutality, make apartheid look like a picnic”).
Are we expected to believe that all of these veterans of the South African anti-apartheid struggle have lost their minds? Are we supposed to denounce them as anti-Semites?
Then there is international law. What is often left unsaid in much of the debate over Israel and the A-word is that one can legitimately debate whether, or to what extent, modern Israel resembles apartheid-era South Africa. In the occupied West Bank, with its “separate and unequal” road networks, water systems and housing policies, and where Israeli settlers are bound by Israeli civil law while Palestinians are judged according to Israeli military law, it seems an open and shut case. Inside the Green Line, where Palestinian citizens of Israel have the right to vote and stand for parliament and where Arabic is an official language it is, admittedly, less clear-cut. However, human rights groups like Adalah point to more than 50 different laws or bills in Israel that privilege Jews over Arabs or discriminate in favor of Jews in areas such as housing, education and family reunification.
Yet under international law, apartheid is a specific crime with specific definitions, independent of the South African experience. The 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid widened the definition of apartheid to “similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practiced in southern Africa” and applied it to “inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group,” including the denial of free movement and the expropriation of land.
Four years after the collapse of the Afrikaner regime in South Africa, the 1998 Rome Statute, which established the International Criminal Court (ICC), defined apartheid as “inhumane acts…committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.”
From a strictly legal perspective, therefore, whether or not Israel is identical to, or even resembles, apartheid-era South Africa is, frankly, irrelevant. The only issue that matters is whether Israel is in violation of international law. In 2009, a team of academics and lawyers commissioned by South Africa’s statutory research agency concluded that Israel maintains “a system of domination by Jews over Palestinians” and “this system constitutes a breach of the prohibition of apartheid.” In 2013, another study co-authored by international law professor and former UN special rapporteur on human rights in the Occupied Territories, John Dugard, found “Israeli practices in the occupied territory are… in breach of the legal prohibition of apartheid.”
Back in 1967, Goodman understood in a flash what Ben Gurion was trying to say. Today, defenders of the Jewish state refuse to understand the warnings of former Israeli prime ministers, the condemnations of South African anti-apartheid activists, and the clear strictures of international law. For Palestinians, however, this is far from an academic issue or a mere debating point. For fifty years they have been the victims of discrimination, segregation and oppression. How much more do they have to endure?
Top photo: Palestinian laborers wait to cross an Israeli checkpoint as they return to their homes after a day’s work in the Jewish state in 2010 near the village of Ni’ilin in the West Bank.
organised crime operation to steal land by murdering people under the color of religion and self defence. Hitler did that – had a different name for it.
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
Israel doesn’t allow the Arabs to come into their land and kill them and they are called an “Apartheid” state for it? any restriction Israel has is founded in security not racism
israel has a policy in favor of self defence.
Palestine has a policy in favor of self defence.
Certain israeli zionistas operating under the color of religion insist that Palestinians are living on israeli land given to them by god himself and are therefore trespassing and therefore must be evicted in some manner for “the cause”.
it’s called ethnic cleansing
it’s called genocide
it’s called land theft
How refreshing to read that isn’t something apologizing or justifying Israeli apartheid. It’s sad to think what Israel’s policies are doing to its children’s future. Unless they make peace, they will be locked in wars of racist hatred forever. Unfortunately, they must compromise. Jews have been in the area for thousands of years, so have Arabs, neither has more claim to the land. Israel was built on ethnic cleansing, it won’t be able to move forward and resolve its conflicts until it acknowledges its crimes and recognizes Palestinians’ fundamental humanity, dignity and rights.
David Ben Gurion:
“Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”
there is no Apartheid you propagandist, Israel is protecting themselves and the Arabs are bent on a genocide of the Israelis, any restriction Israel has is 100% justified
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
If Israel doesn’t want to be called an apartheid state, the solution is very simple:
(1) Give all people under Israeli military & police control (which means the West Bank and Gaza) equal voting rights in Knesset elections. Yes, this would likely result in about a 50-50 split between Muslim and Jewish members in the Knesset.
(2) End discriminatory practices in land ownership & leasing and in immigration policy. Palestinian refugees should be able to migrate to Israel with no fewer restrictions than any other group.
The Anti-Colonial Radical Left
Virginia Tilley and Richard Falk support an anti-colonial agenda i.e., righting the wrongs of the European colonial period. Their long time anti-Israel activism and support for the one state solution is underpinned by their view that Zionism was a nineteenth and twentieth century colonial project in the same mold as white settlements in Africa which formed the racist regimes in (apartheid) South Africa and former Rhodesia. Virginia Tilley specializes in “in the comparative study of ethnic and racial conflict”.
Tilley views the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through colonialism. This is also consistent with how the world is viewed by the radical left. Jon Schwartz writes at the Intercept (“Columbus Day Is the Most Important Day of Every Year” http://interc.pt/1Mn0VQ9 by @tinyrevolution):
Effectively, Schwarz blames much of the world’s problems on the colonial period – a long period of conquest and intense globalization led by the European powers. It is with this perspective that the radical left views Israel today – pointedly (and politically) referring to the Palestinians as “indigenous peoples”. That is an extremely important concept in “colonialism” which attempts to negate the Jewish connection to Palestine. Falk and Tilley want to right the “wrongs” of the colonial period presumably everywhere in the world, but especially in Palestine. The UN report (falsely) labels Zionism a colonial project because the mass immigration to Palestine originated in Europe and the partition of Palestine was conducted under the auspices of the colonial power, Britain. By comparing Israel to apartheid South Africa, they redefine Zionism to meet their anti-colonial agenda. The UN report – for all intents and purposes – resurrected UN resolution 3379 which equated Zionism to colonialism and compared Israel to apartheid South Africa. The resolution passed at the UN in 1975, but was repealed in 1991. Calling Zionism a colonial project is used to delegitimize Zionism (Jewish self-determination) as well as deny the history of anti-Jewish bigotry which motivated the Zionist movement.
Zionism and colonialism are related only because the great colonial power of the day helped Jews realize their dream of self-determination in Palestine – in much the same way as South Ossetia and Abkhazia have used Russia to protect their autonomous regions in Georgia. Zionism differs from colonialism in several important ways. Jews have a three thousand year connection to Palestine, and Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism (unlike white settlements in South Africa). Europeans were motivated by conquest and trade while Jewish people were motivated by anti-Jewish bigotry and persecution. Jewish immigrants did not claim Palestine in the name of the colonial powers. There was no war of independence conducted against Britain (as in America). Finally, immigration was for the most part peaceful. Land was mostly purchased from absentee land owners. There was no conquest of the local Palestinian population – and no ethnic cleansing until the war of independence.
Richard Falk and Virginia Tilley cite the 2004 ICJ decision (rightly) recognizing the Palestinian right to self-determination while at the same time the authors of the UN report apparently don’t agree that Jews have the same right – a clear double standard applied only to Israel. Tilley and Falk cite immigration and land laws that favor Jews to maintain a Jewish majority population, but Jewish people are a small minority world-wide requiring laws to maintain a Jewish majority. Jews have lived for thousands of years as a minority population withstanding second class citizenry, anti-Jewish bigotry and murderous pogroms including the Holocaust. Jewish nationalism arose because of persecution – precisely because they were always a minority population.
The UN report attempts to equate Israel to apartheid South Africa. The report crosses the line from (rightly) criticizing Israel for denying the Palestinians their right to self-determination to denying Jews the very same right. Tilley and Falk falsely equate Zionism to colonialism for political reasons to undermine and delegitimize the Jewish state. The authors showed their extreme bias and blatant hypocrisy in their attempt to right the “wrongs” of colonialism.
keep it simple. A holdover criminal organisation operating since the barbaric 1800’s had to abandon piracy and slavery. Times changed. They decided that they could pretend to be jewish to use that religion as cover for their illegal operations which now are murder and land theft.
It’s amazing how most of you have no idea the real truth of Israel beginning! MONA gets A+
Google: Thomas Suarez “STATE OF TERROR” incredible documentation!
“real democracy” is the one true scotsman argument against israel
democracy in general is a barely proven political philosophy, many western democracies simply export to less developed countries the practices that israel engages in domestically
people can in fact democratically elect a nondemocratic goverment, or vote to move cancer causing industries to china
and then the kicker .. any time your government does something you disagee with, you can claim that government is not a “real democracy”
thus a government that cancels XL is “responding to the people”, while a govenment that sends money to israel is “controlled by zionists”
so by your argument, murdering Palestinians to steal their land is a democratic process?
here is the report
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
note: Adolf Hitler was elected. Doesn’t make it good. Doesn’t make it right.
“Inside the Green Line…, it is, admittedly, less clear-cut.” It’s actually very clear. Not only can Arabs run for parliament, there are currently 17 Arab members of the Knesset. How is this apartheid? How many Jewish members of parliament are there in Israel’s neighbors’ governments? Several of its neighbors won’t allow an Israeli Jew to enter their borders. Hamas’ charter specifically rejects a 2-state solution and the right for Israel to exist. Which of its neighbors has a better record on women’s rights and the rights of homosexuals to not be persecuted? It’s curious that Mr. Hasan failed to mention all the enlightened, progressive Arab nations that offer such a contrast to “terrible” Israel. Israel isn’t perfect, but it is hardly the worst actor in the Middle East.
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
Murdering Palestinians and stealing their land is not something the people of planet earth voted for.
The Ottoman Empire occupied Palestine for centuries. The people of the earth didn’t vote for that either. Should Turkey be forced to pay reparations?
Reality:
Apartheid is and has always been rampant in Palestinian lands occupied by Israel and within Israel “proper,” i.e., west of the “green line.”
To quote an expert: Hendrik Verwoerd, then prime minister of South Africa and the architect of South Africa’s apartheid policies, 1961: “The Jews took Israel from the Arabs after the Arabs had lived there for a thousand years. Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state.” (Rand Daily Mail, November 23, 1961)
“Former Foreign Ministry director-general invokes South Africa comparisons. ‘Joint Israel-West Bank’ reality is an apartheid state” EXCERPT: “Similarities between the ‘original apartheid’ as it was practiced in South Africa and the situation in ISRAEL [my emphasis] and the West Bank today ‘scream to the heavens,’ added [Alon] Liel, who was Israel’s ambassador in Pretoria from 1992 to 1994. ‘There can be little doubt that the suffering of Palestinians is not less intense than that of blacks during apartheid-era South Africa, he asserted.’ ” (Times of Israel, February 21, 2013)
“…EU broadside over plight of Israel’s Arabs”
EXCERPT: “The confidential 27-page draft prepared by European diplomats… [shows] that Israeli Arabs suffer ‘economic disparities… unequal access to land and housing… discriminatory draft legislation and a political climate in which discriminatory rhetoric and practice go unsanctioned.'” (The Independent, Dec. 27/2011)
The U.S. State Department’s report on International Religious Freedom: “Arabs in Israel…are subject to various forms of discrimination [and the government] does not provide Israeli Arabs…with the same quality of education, housing, employment opportunities as Jews.”
In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.” (U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2015 Israel and The Occupied Territories)
To the best of my knowledge, Israel is the only country in the world that differentiates between citizenship and nationality, i.e., “Israeli” nationality does not exist, only Jews and non-Jews, and each citizen carries an appropriate identity card. While the implications of this absurdity for discrimination and racism against non-Jews are obvious, it has been upheld by Israel’s Supreme Court.
Recent Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyyUvxHLYr4 Israeli TV Host Implores Israelis: Wake Up and Smell the Apartheid
One example of apartheid within Israel: “Jewish town won’t let Arab build home on his own land ” Excerpt: “Aadel Suad first came to the planning and construction committee of the Misgav Local Council in 1997. Suad, an educator, was seeking a construction permit to build a home on a plot of land he owns in the community of Mitzpeh Kamon. The reply he got, from a senior official on the committee, was a memorable one. ‘Don’t waste your time,’ he reportedly told Suad. ‘We’ll keep you waiting for 30 years.’” (Haaretz, 14 December 2009)
The effect of Israel’s blatantly racist “Citizenship Law” and more than fifty other restrictions (http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-DatabaseIsrael's) Arab citizens have to endure is well expressed by writer and Knesset member, Ahmed Tibi, “…dutifully defining the state [of Israel] as ‘Jewish and democratic,’ ignores the fact that in practice ‘democratic’ refers to Jews, and the Arabs are nothing more than citizens without citizenship.” (Ma’ariv, 1.6.2005)
Verwoerd quote is misguided at best. Ottoman Turks controlled area for centuries until World War 1, when British took over. Israel created by UN. Significant percentage of Palestinians never lived there prior to UN partitioning. Other Arab nations dumped unwanteds into “Palestine.” Attacked by neighbors almost instantly, some of whom still refuse to recognize Israel. Chronic defensive posture and survival thought process can lead to less than ideal treatment of people groups. US still figuring out its coexistence with Native tribes; Israel has been around for shorter time. Doesn’t help that Hamas refuses to acknowledge Israel’s existence.
North Africans in France are nowhere near assimilated. Other European nations trying to figure out assimilation of large numbers of Arab “refugees.” Israel is supposed to be perfect while its neighbors’ civil and human rights records are worse. That’s reality. It’s also called hypocrisy.
The fundamental issue that those supporting the Israeli status quo are unable to cope with is very basic: separation of church and state, i.e. a ban on any “religious test” is a requirement for any real democracy.
Notably none of the pro-Israeli apartheid commentators had an answer to this:
The fact that two of America’s closest allies, Israel and Saudi Arabia, reject this basic notion of democracy should make any honest person question what American foreign policy is really all about – because it sure isn’t about “promoting American values.”
First of all I doubt your claim about Weizman please give a citation.
Secondly Israel law is modeled after British common law, as opposed the Palestinian Authority Law and Gaza law which are based on Islamic law not to mention the countries that most of the anti-Zionist seem to praise like Iran and Syria where one must be a Muslim to run for office.
Thirdly you have yet to cite the Israeli law you claimed bars Arabs from owning land in Israel so quite frankly you have zero credibility on this issue despite being seemingly obsessed with it.
Your level of knowledge is diminished.
This report contains much information for you to fill the gaps you are missing.
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
Are you even aware of the significance of
8 JUNE 1967?
UN Resolution 3379?
Do you know what a SAYANIM is?
Which of these would support what israeli zionist likuds are doing to Palestine and the Palestinians?
Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed
UN Envoy: Putin Told Israel That Its ‘Game’ in Syria Is Over
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/un-envoy-putin-told-israel-its-game-syria-over/ri19268
and that is what the “Russia Did It” thing is really all about.
the democrat party support for israeli apartheid and conquering the middle east.
Is it anti-shemitic to point out that the vast and disproportionate amount of threats directed at Jews actually COME FROM Jews? It’s called “holohoaxism,” and it’s a cottage industry, and rite of passage for many sociopaths.
“Israel arrests hacker linked to threats on US Jewish centers
JERUSALEM (AP) — A 19-year-old American-Israeli Jew was arrested Thursday as the prime suspect in a wave of bomb threats against U.S. Jewish community centers, a startling turn in a case that had stoked fears of rising anti-Semitism in the United States.”
https://www.mail.com/int/news/world/5058928-israel-arrests-hacker-linked-to-threats-us-jewish.html#.1258-stage-hero1-4
Anti-semitism? Zio-trolls? FAlse flags?That looks like the port for the culling of the cattle.
And really- don’t real anti-semites always link “all Jews” to human organ trafficking and so on?
What’s a little anti-semitism next to a little human organ trafficking? And don’t real true “Blood In Th Face” white nationalists and others always link the search terms “Jewish psychopaths” and ” lashon ha-ra” and so on?
https://radioislam.org/crime/organ/organ_traffic.htm
https://www.sott.net/article/334172-Coroner-discloses-body-organs-of-over-15000-Syrians-sold-in-past-6-years-to-fund-ISIS
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=417
Or bring up the repugnant and very very false claims that Jewish psychopaths get away with stuff that the goy simply don’t?
“lashon hara has a specific meaning in the context of scrutiny by non-Jews, in the sense that the Talmudic consensus on Leviticus/Vaikra 19:16 is that it is forbidden to speak ill of fellow Jews to the Gentiles. It is thus an injunction to close ranks and protect the group rather than a general injunction against gossip. Part of it also lay in that fact that, like Rich and Dwek, both were pillars of the Jewish community and heavily invested much of their ill-gotten wealth into communal assets. The pair helped establish an Orthodox day school in Portsmouth named after Shereshevsky’s father, the Rabbi Chaim Shereshevsky Institute of Mesorah Learning. The pair also sponsored a summer day camp for local children, and even sent a private jet to Jamaica to rescue an Orthodox teen who said he was being abused at a reform school. Wex-Trust was itself a communal enterprise, with The Virginian Pilot reporting that the pair assembled a sales team that “included the scions of some of the region’s prominent Orthodox families.” When the scheme began unravelling in August 2008, the FBI apprehended Shereshevsky while he was, like Marc Rich and Yolie Gertner, leaving for Israel. He had no return ticket.
I could continue with similar cases like that of Marc Dreier whose specialty was defrauding hedge funds from which he stole $400 million, Sholam Weissan expert in insurance fraud, or Sholom Rubashkin whose kosher meat business was steeped in bank fraud, money laundering and the use of illegal immigrants and child labor. I could spend many hundreds of pages exploring the activities of Scott Rothstein, who led an extravagant lifestyle and pumped millions into Jewish causes while heading a $1.2 billion pyramid scheme. That’s without even casting a glance at the cases of Samuel “Mouli” Cohen, Nevin Shapiro, Steve Cohen and Michael Steinberg, Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, Eric Stein, Eliyahu Weinstein, Sam Israel, Samuel D. Waksal, Martin Frankel, Simon Feldman, Jeffrey Greenstein, Cary Feldman, Chaim Mayer Lebovits, Bernie Madoff, David and Donna Levy, Frederick D. Berg, Lou Pearlman, Andrew Rosenfeld, Jordan Belfort, and Timothy Roth.
Before counter-arguments are made that these crimes and activities are the sins of bankers and lawyers rather than Jews, consider the following cases from a range of professions and try to find another link. ”
http://www.gangstalkingmindcontrolcults.com/on-psychopathic-jews-three-articles/
It’s very clear to me that those racist, white, patriarchal anti-semites are scumbags, intent on destroying the cream of the crop of culled cattle.
Three different times on this thread, Mona called Jack Green a troll. Yet not a word about Barabbas who is not only a troll, but has posted numerous anti-Jewish comments. To call Jack Green a troll while ignoring the comments of barabbas is simply politically motivated. Mona has very little credibility monitoring these threads.
Jack Green is a Zionist agent, hile Barabbas is a babbler. Jack Green IS politically motivated…as are you.
Really he is an agent? And you know this how?
False accusations is the M. O. of the anti zionists on this board. I guess when you have nothing else you have to resort to that kind of crap.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2017/03/23/Israel-arrests-teen-linked-to-bomb-threats-at-US-Jewish-institutions
“Inside the Green Line…it is, admittedly, less clear-cut.” Funny how hard it is for Mr. Hasan to admit the truth. There are 17 Arab members of the Knesset currently, a fact he left out. This is apartheid? How many Jewish parliament members are there in Arab nations? It is interesting that Mr. Hasan only compared Israel to the old South Africa, not to any current Arab nation. It would have been interesting for him to point out the best constitutional republic or democracy among the Arab nations which treats women as equals and doesn’t discriminate based on anyone’s religion or sexual preference as a contrast to “evil” Israel. Iraq, perhaps…? While Israel has Arab citizens, he neglected to mention that there are 16 Muslim nations(not all of them Arabic, but including Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria) which refuse to allow Israeli Jews to even enter their borders. He also neglects to mention that Hamas’ charter specifically rejects a 2-state solution and the existence of a Jewish nation. Israel isn’t perfect, but it is hardly the worst actor in its region in regards to human and civil rights.
Only 14,000 Jews live in the 22 Arab countries and Iran.
1.7 million Arabs live in Israel.
Jews are practically barred from living in all the Arab countries except a few thousand Jews who live in Tunisia and Morocco.
I know of one Jew who tried to return to the Arab country Libya he was from.
His name is David Gerbi.
After Gaddafi was overthrow in Libya in 2011, Gerbi tried to return to Libya where he was forced out in the late 60s.
When the Libyans found out Gerbi was in Libya trying to return there he nearly got lynched by an Arab mob saying “there is no place for Jews in Libya.
Barack Obama: Here Netty. 38 Billion dollars for you to protect your country.
Netty Yahu: It’s not enough money you dark skinned guy.
BO: it’s plenty of money to do your business.
NY: We need more money.
BO: you can kill a lot of people and build lots of settlements with that kind of money
NY: yeah but syria will cost a lot more. You gonna do that for us?
BO: i’m outta here. Maybe the next guy can help you.
fyi – i know for a fact that black folks, many, think Obama is/was a racist. i was kinda shocked when i hear that but they straightened me out.
israel is engaged in a war of occupation against a much weaker combatant, not the construction of apartheid
here is the UN report that israel really really hates
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
just like that really hated UN RESOLUTION 3379
just like they really hated the US on 8 JUNE 1967
btw – they did a BDS on Germany 24 MARCH 1933
imagine, making theft legal.
what next, bring back crufixing?
the UN engages in a massive overfocus on israel … those who notice this are labled by UN supporters as whatabouters
good point.
really, like on television of they had a show, THE BIGGEST OFFENDER.
Israel would win hands down.
what next, bring back crucifixing? (corrected from tongtwisted on keyboard)
The UN has lots of agencies and they focus on many things. But when a UN report comes out on Rwanda or The Congo, there is little pushback, so there’s no controversy. But when the UN focuses on Israel, all hell breaks lose, because the pushback is everywhere.
So, it’s not true that the UN focuses disproportionately on Israel. That’s how you feel, because you don’t spend your time berating UN reports on Myanmar.
Person Israel is an apartheid state.
Hasbara Specialist You’re an anti-semite.
Person No I’m not.
Hasbara Specialist You’re an anti-semite.Person Okay, fine. But what does that have to do with whether Israel is an apartheid state or not.
Hasbara Specialist You’re an anti-semite.Person Yeah, yeah. I got that. But what does that have to do with Israeli behavior.
Hasbara Specialist You’re an anti-semite.Person Fuck off.
Hasbara Specialist You see, you’re an anti-semite. You dropped your mask. Goddamn my hasbara still works.
I apologize for my lack of formatting skills.
what you should apologise for is making false accusations.
THAT’S anti-Semitic.
whatabout anti-palestinitic?
whatabout anti-americanitic?
whatabout anti-human-rightsitic?
it was mentioned by @richard
https://theintercept.com/2017/03/22/top-israelis-have-warned-of-apartheid-so-why-the-outrage-at-a-un-report/?comments=1#comment-376289
that palestinians are semites also.
you should apologise to God.
where were you called an anti-semite Chief?
What I have seen is
person – “you have that fact wrong here is a citation proving it.”
anti-zionist – “You write here everyday, advocating murder. ”
person – “please show where I did that.”
anti-zionist – crickets
https://theintercept.com/2017/03/22/top-israelis-have-warned-of-apartheid-so-why-the-outrage-at-a-un-report/?comments=1#comment-376446
People have called me anti-semite here before, but that’s beside the point. I’m talking about the nature of your arguments, which is deflection.
crickets indeed, because I really can’t waste my time with you.
But when you advocate for Israel’s position, you advocate for murder and dispossession of Palestinians. I can’t make it any clearer. If you refuse to understand it or pretend not to understand it, I can’t help it.
So you cant show where I called you an anti semite, you cant show where I advocated murder. Now a new false accusation where did I deflected?
Face it you dont know what you are talking about. False accusations and name calling are all you got.
I’ve been called an anti-semite on TI before.
And when you advocate for Israel’s behavior, you advocate for the death and dispossession of Palestinians.
For the past few days, posts in TI comments have been, seemingly randomly, appearing in the “Latest” list without appearing in the “Threads.”
It’s not worth the trouble to write and post under these conditions. Someone let me know if/when it’s fixed, please.
Just wait for my email Doug…….
Antisemites have long supported Zionism, and Zionists have long promoted, and even manufactured antisemitism — in order to scare Jews into becoming European colonial-settlers in Israel. Among the many sources documenting Zionists uses and abuses of antisemitism, is Thomas Suarez’ book, State of Terror. One review accurately states, my emphasis:
Indeed, the Second Father of Zionism, Vladimir Jabotinsky, expected his fellow Jews to accept and act on this hideous belief: “The Jewish people are a very nasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they’re right.”
Tragically, the “nasty Jews” are those, like Jabotinsky, who were and are most ardently Zionist. They treated dissident Jews, ARabs and “uncooperative” Europeans with utter viciousness, including assassination and slander campaigns. Zionism makes people nasty, not Jewishness. In fact, other Jews have been victimized by Zionists as badly as anyone.
Israel is obviously a highly apartheid state that runs a South African-like Bantustan system in Gaza and the West Bank. There are obviously apartheid laws on land ownership and leasing, as well as on immigration rights, and clear discrimination in government employment. Forgetting about the military control of the West Bank and Gaza for a moment, consider the internal legal situation inside Israel:
https://imeu.org/article/discrimination-against-palestinian-citizens-of-israel
Israel’s oft-repeated claim to being “the only democracy in the Middle East” is just dishonest propaganda. Israel, in reality, has all the hallmarks of medieval pre-democratic European theocratic states, and no more claim to democratic rule than has Saudi Arabia (where women “recently gained the right to vote,” according to the Saudi-American PR machine) or Iran.
I already debunked this below. Still waiting for you to cite that law Photo.
face the truth Gilly
God won’t have you and your ilk
Moses won’t have you and your ilk
Jesus won’t have you and your ilk
Mohammed won’t have you and your ilk
Buddha won’t have you and your ilk
Krishna won’t have you and your ilk
the good people of Planet Earth DON’T WANT YOU & YOUR ILK
you know what they say, Don’t go away mad…
No, you apartheid-defending israel-worshipping Zionist abomination, you “debunked” nothing below.
Come back when your useless little Zionist balls have dropped.
photosymbiosis
Are you against discrimination?
Doug Salzmann
Large-scale immigration into Palestine coincided with anti-Jewish pogroms in Eastern Europe (Wikipedia):
Of course, figures vary on how many Jews were killed. However, I an quite certain that Zionist leaders made up all of those stories about Russian pogroms at the turn of the century. Those were actually Zionist pogroms of Jews to increase support for Jewish immigration to Palestine.
Mona is an anti-Zionist nutcase. She is obsessed with the topic and is more than willing to call Adolf Eichmann a Zionist.
No one said, or implied, or believes, that antisemitism wasn’t or isn’t real, Craig.
What we say is that it doesn’t justify a Zionism that results in (indeed, is based upon) pogroms against the Palestinians in their homeland.
You completely moved the goal post from your previous statement. However, I agree that the Israelis are denying the Palestinian right to self-determination. Effectively, the Israelis are denying the Palestinians a homeland of their own. There is no chance of reversing that until Netanyahu is removed from office.
Yes, and all those Russians migrated to the United States where they could practice their religion, be it Russian Orthodox or Judaism, without any worries about government repression, since the U.S. adhered to the principle of separation of church and state, unlike nations like Israel and Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Your reading of history is rather one-sided, anyway. The first large wave of Russian immigration to the U.S. was mainly about poverty and discrimination, the second large wave was about fleeing the Russian Civil War at the end of World War I; it wasn’t only about repression of Jewish people.
First wave (c. 1900):
Second wave (c. 1920, Russian Civil War):
The Zionist claim promoted by the likes of Chaim Weizmann (himself a product of the religious segregation system, i.e. “Pale Settlements” in Tsarist Russia) was that separation of church and state was undesirable, that they should go back to the medieval European model of states adopting religious identities and segrating by religion, be it Protestant, Catholic, Islamic, Jewish, etc. This is just a throwback mentality, one with no place in the modern world, and certainly not a democratic concept.
Iraqi Jews reject ‘cynical manipulation’ of their history by Israel, Zionists
And, indeed, one sees this attempt to create moral parity all the time from Israel apologists, including in this comment space. Zionists/Israel have used the Jews of the rest of the world in false and propagandist ways for many decades. Mr. Behar has started a committee of Iraqi Jews:
Further:
Zionists have long done all they could to promote misery among Jews who have the gall not to move to Israel and help colonize the land. Arab Jews like Mr. Behar are entirely fed up with it.
Zionist lie and commit atrocities. Their ideology is entirely built on falsehoods peddled to the world.
We can just call it “hasbaraboutery” — with a heaping helping of fucking over their brethren, cuz the end, of course, justifies the means.
Of course the claim that Jews flocked from Muslim dominated countries due to the few incidents like this is risible. 98% of Jews from Muslim lands left some put the figure as high as 900,000 people. Many were not allowed to take money of valuable with them. There is no comparable movement of a population group in anything close to those percentages in the 20th century. Of course extreme anti-Zionists use events like this to warp history depending on the ignorance of there intended audience who are unwilling or unable to think how the claims defy not only history but logic as well.
mona has estabished that the undecided percentage in a poll can be counted towards any other side of the issue you want
she has also established the UN as a definitive source of cultural definitions for all world societies
QED
19-YEAR-OLD WITH AMERICAN-ISRAELI CITIZENSHIP ARRESTED IN THREATS AGAINST JEWISH CENTERS
As Ali Abunimah observed, “This teen apparently absorbed Israel’s message that in order to survive Zionism needs Jews to always live in fear.” Certainly that’s how prominent Zionist saw and used antisemitism, from the beginning and to the present. Zionists have always seen antisemitism as critical to their ethno-religious supremacist project, even when that very project increases justified anger at Zionist Jews.
Ah yes and just as the Islamophobes will be out in force today talking about how Islam influenced the terrorist attack in London, TI’s own ziophobe uses the same logic and tactics.
Actually, there is little question that a sick and twisted perversion of Islam influenced the attacker in London. And the first claim I’ve seen wrt that is from ISIS.
You’re going to have to do better, Gil, if you can. You might start by addressing Mona’s historically-correct observation that Zionist leaders, going back to the turn of the previous century, saw and used fear of, and reaction to, antisemitism as a major driver of support for the Zionist cause — and that “false flag” actions like the bomb threats discussed above are hardly unheard-of.
Zionism has many adherents holding different beliefs as does Islam. Saying that extremists represent mainstream zionism is just as ignorant as saying that the guy in London represents all of Islam.
Certainly there was a fear of anti-Semitism are you saying that that fear was invented by Zionists? Just because actions taken by extremists were not unheard of doesn’t mean it represents mainstream zionism anymore than the Baader-Meinhof Group, the Weather Underground, or the Unibomber represented socialism, the antiwar movement, or anti capitalist movement.
Sorry but Mona engages in exactly the same type of smear tactics that you will hear on Fox News and talk radio today to smear Muslims. Bet you will hear it from Trump too.
Zionism isn’t a “religion”, you frum little israel-worshipping zio window licker.
ROFL…Yea, ziopath, and if you were German and it was 1933 you’d be a frum little “liberal” Nazi window licker.
Except Zionists do — not just “influence,” actually do — exactly this kind of crap, all the time. (But this fact is not widely known, altho that is changing.) See my newer post that’s only showing if one clicks “Latest.”
Yes extremists do just like some Imams influenced the guy in London what’s the difference.
“The difference” is that Zionist extremists insist that they are the good guys, and the West, loaded with Christian guilt for The Holocaust, genuflect to AIPAC.
Yes you are right Nate. Islamic extremists consider theselves the bad guys. Sheesh.
You’re a frum little israel-worshipping zio window licker and anti-Semite who’s only here to shill for Zionist Apartheid, and -Mona- isn’t.
ROFL…Yea, and TI’s own israel-worshipping and Jew-baiting ziopath anti-Semite apologist for Zio-apartheid uses Zionism and is just too much of a mouth-breathing zio window licker for “logic and tactics”.
A new 2017 book “State of Terror” by Thomas Suarez, will give a more complete understanding of what is happening in Palestine! Totally and meticulously documented. Please google the author and see how we’ve been led down the wrong road. enjoy
@GilG says of Former Foreign Ministry chief Alon Liel, who also served as Israel’s ambassador to South Africa:
Great! Let’s repeat it:
He also had this to say:
(Of course, Gil then tries to change the subject, with the usual Zionist ploy of whataboutery. What he imagines happens if a Palestinian politician disagrees with Fatah or Hamas. )
But overall, it’s great news. Hardcore Israel apologist, GilG, has “no problem” with Ambassador Liel’s admission that Israel is an apartheid state. So much is Liel sure and alarmed about this reality, that he warned Obama away, to avoid giving the appearance of countenancing apartheid.
So what do you other Zionists think? Is Liel “Israel bashing?” Is he “antisemitic?” Or is it possible that intelligent and moral people grasp that Israel is, in fact, an apartheid state?
signs of apartheid is not apartheid. you lied by omission by leaving out his whole speech. Liel is in favor of a two state solution.
I’m sure that intelligent and moral people grasp that Israel resembles an apartheid state if a two state solution can be reached. However you are not one of them having exhibited neither intelligence or morals.
“In the situation that exists today, until a Palestinian state is created, we are actually one state. This joint state — in the hope that the status quo is temporary — is an apartheid state.”
An apartheid state exhibits “signs” of apartheid. Duh.
“An apartheid state exhibits “signs” of apartheid.”
But a state can exhibit signs of apartheid without being apartheid. bigger duh.
Yeah and your belligerent little Zionist apartheid shit stain currently stinking up Palestine can get flushed into the Med. And it will.
Aren’t anti-Zionsits so articulate and well spoken.
Hey LOL you sound pretty tough behind that key board. too funny.
Aren’t frum little israel-worshipping zio window lickers so comprehension-challenged and needy.
Yea, ziopath, and you don’t.
Where have I threatened anyone? My experience is that only cowards hide like that.
Where did I or anyone ever claim you “threatened anyone”, you impotent little israel-worshipping Zionist prostitute?
My experience is that frum little israel-worshipping and window-licking zio prostitutes are so very comprehension-challenged and needy they have to make random shit up as they go along, just for the attention.
huh? apartheid is not apartheid?
1. it looks like apartheid
2. it walks like apartheid
3. it squawks like apartheid
? and it’s not apartheid?
Are you still wearing that
straighttight white form fitting dinner jacket?israeli warplanes flew over lebanon, past hezbollah operations – whom they tell everyone they were targeting – and on into syria instead and attacked regular syrian army positions, feb 22.
Netti gets called out and runs to moscow to apoligise and instead tells bible stories how he is doing god’s work. Really.
That commenter Mona is not here for constructive debates or arguments. She just writes essays about Zionism or Israel. She starts spreading falsehoods about you If you point out the weakness of her arguments.
She is somebody who looks at this data: 44% of Palestinians support 2 state-36% support 1 state-20% in the middle and she concluded the majority of Palestinians want 1 state.
She says she wants the end of the Israeli occupation. That is fair enough. But when I asked her where would the occupying force go (1967 borders? ) She says she does not care. How the hell you are going to end an occupation without telling the hostile occupying force what area it must vacate?
She is part of the online community of individuals who design their own reality and create their own logic and facts. They believe they are smart and everybody else is stupid.
Here a clear example:
2016 total civilians death in Afghanistan (including terrorism. military operations, unexploded ordnance…): 3498 (UN)
1998 total civilians massacred by the Taliban in ONE month (August) in ONE town in Afghanistan: 6,000 (UN)
Commenter DOC conclusion: Terrorism was FAR LESS under the Taliban than it is now.
Mona: Doc is smart!
Mona is nothing but a propagandist who’s stock in trade is cut and pasting ahistorical writings from non historians and crackpot professional Israel bashers with no integrity. Because she gets her information from these sources she is easily refuted when actual knowledge or critical thinking is involved. That is way she lacked the ability to understand the poll numbers and what they meant. It’s is also why she has been caught so many times misrepresenting what actual sources said.
She is entirely predictable she gets shown up and then calls names, slanders people and floods the thread with unrelated crap from her favorite propagandists. Still it’s fun when one has a moment or two to expose her and see her freak out.
Were France & Germany one state when France occupied Germany?
Were the US & Japan one state when the US occupied Japan?
Were the US & Iraq one state when the US occupied Iraq?
Of course not!
Of course not!
Of course not!
Max Blumenthal in 2013 saying peace process is a farce and how the Palestinians were never offered a viable two state solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7122wGOvFs
Max is Truth!
Yeah here is Max giving some truth.
https://youtu.be/MIeByOeERpY
You’re too stupid to realize how good your video makes Max look.
Good job on making your case against anything Max has to say.
Jesus, Gil offers Andrew fucking Breitbart as some indictment of Max? Next up: What does Steven Bannon think of Max? Enquiring minds want to know. pffft
that it was Breibart makes it all that much more amazing. Max is so dim he gets caught in a lie and bested on camera by a fool like Breibart. What does that make Max.
What Max is is a journalist who has written two books about the heinous racism, polices and murderous actions of Israel, and not one critichas been able to cite a material error in either work.
A stupid Breitbart, Youtube video about some inconsequential thing involving James O’Keefe simply reveals your utter impotence to deal with the hard and ugly truths that Max incontrovertibly reveals about the ethno-religious supremacist state you support.
Of course you’d rather talk about Breitbart and James O’Keefe! In your place, so would I!
Max revealed he is a liar as have you on multiple occasions. I have never backed away from any discussion. What usually happens is I point out your falsehoods and you run away or go into full name calling rant.
Oh and i would rather talk about how this article shows Glenn lied in his article. Want to discuss that?
I see Max getting caught telling a lie. When he went to the event precisely to catch these idiot telling a lie. You tell me what you see.
I love the way Max slinks off with his tail between his legs. No wonder he is the hero of those lacking any kind of principles.
You write here everyday, advocating murder. Max advocates for justice. I think we all know what that makes Max.
I don’t know if you’ve caught up to the fact yet, that you’re wasting your time.
point to any post I have made that advocates murder. you can’t because just like your hero Max you are a liar. I back up my claims you just call names. pathetic.
I don’t watch Youtube videos, certainly not of Andrew Breitbart. Please point to a transcript or direct quote of this purported Max lie.
Or is that that James O’Keefe thing you brought up many months ago? If it is, I already know your claim is total bullshit.
Yet you draw the conclutions about it anyway.The very definition of a narrow mind.
Sure thing, anti-Semite, I see an inane little israel-worshipping zio wingnut and apologist for Zionist apartheid who lies like he breathes.
good, I’d be nervous if a moron like you saw me as anything else.
Glad to be of service, you needy little self-hating zio anti-Semite prostitute, and should you ever require another kick in the Zionism please don’t hesitate to let me know.
The case is obvious he denied that he called James O’keefe a racist. Then when what he wrote was read to him he was forced to admit he lied.
Now let’s hear your case Chief.
He was obviously trying to be polite.
I’d call O’Keefe a racist.
yeah. You got a real supreme court case against Max there buddy. You should really tie all your eggs to this amazing video. Anybody who sees this will certainly be impressed by the strength of your argument against Max. You keep it up genius.
face it he was not trying to be polit, no one would describe Max as polite. As a matter of fact Max was there in an attempt to do his Borat imitation by getting an editing shots he could use to make these guys look foolish . But instead he gets caught lying. too funny. your hero is outed witted by right wing nutters.
You guys go tell me more about those polls showing more Arabs want a 1 state solution.
You “corrected” someone by stating most Palestinians favored a 2-state solution, which the Jewish Telegraphic Agency poll showed is not true. Is it?
How dense are you? It wasnt a JTA poll. They were just reporting on it. I went to the source and posted the actual results which showed more wanted a two state than wanted a one state.
James O’Keefe is a racist. And Max didn’t lie. This whole 11-year-old kerfuffle has to do with whether O’Keefe helped set up tables at, or whether he helped plan, a racist event. Big deal.
No reasonable person is going to think a minor and corrected error in an 11-year-old Salon article undermines the huge corpus of work — including two important books — Max has since put out.
This is Zionist desperation in the face of one of the boldest and best truthtellers about Zionists and Zionism. Max’s exposes are true and are severely harming your ethno-religious supremacist cause, and you hate him for it so much, you lie about a minor, ancient error about James fucking O’Keefe.
Reputation destruction, with lies if necessary, is what Zionists do to their critics, and is what Gil is trying to do here. It’s disgusting!
What lie have I told? And how can you know what the lie Max told was without watching the video. Or did you lie and actually watch it.
Every time Israel offers to end the occupation, the Palestinians say “No!”
Even Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (certainly not a Zionist) said that Arafat’s refusal to accept the January 2001 offer was a crime. Thousands of people would die because of Arafat’s decision & not one of those deaths could be justified.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/03/24/the-prince-3
As Clinton later wrote in his memoir:
It was historic: an Israeli government had said that to get peace, there would be a Palestinian state in roughly 97 percent of the West Bank, counting the [land] swap, and all of Gaza, where Israel also had settlements. The ball was in Arafat’s court.
But Arafat would not, or could not, bring an end to the conflict. “I still didn’t believe Arafat would make such a colossal mistake,” Clinton wrote. “The deal was so good I couldn’t believe anyone would be foolish enough to let it go.” But the moment slipped away. “Arafat never said no; he just couldn’t bring himself to say yes.”
Anyone else notice that Mehdi Hasan’s report directly counter Glenn’s claim that Rima Khalef was ousted by the Trump administration to protect Israel?
Wasn’t that the whole point of Glenn’s article? Can the cadre of the Glenn G supporters please clear this up for me?
Guess not.
Are you referring to the observation that Rima Khalef resigned in protest? The “contradiction” you claim exists is that Glenn Greenwald said she was pressured to resign. Is that it? If so, that settles it: you’re an idiot.
Sorry but if you don’t realize that resigning in protest is not the same as getting ousted then you need a dictionary. If after reading the dictionary you don’t realize the claims counter each other than I am am not really concerned about what you think makes one an idiot. But of course Jose maybe I am missing something and you can make your case, or do you think name calling makes your case?
Could you maybe bother to read the article you claim is mistaken? Key sentence:
Do you need a for-dummies translation?
And how is that being ousted?
Yea, your higher brain functions—and a soul.
No.
No.
Can the inane little Israel-worshipping zio window licker and apologist for Zionist apartheid please stop wasting oxygen, thanks.
Allowing israeli zionist likuds to do their murderous genocidal land theft is a curse upon the planet and a fire that burns souls. If this matter is allowed to settle in this perverted victory for those israelis, future generations will inherit the same horrible methods practices and goals that also afflict North America which, not surprisingly, supports israel.
Jesus would not have it. Moses would not have it. Mohammed would not have it. Buddha would not have it. Krishna would not have it. Why would you oppose them?
Evidence of genocide?
genocide, an act to rid an area of a population.
” Most genocide is committed under cover of war or during the conduct of it. But war is related to genocide for other reasons as well: for people and societies who believe that war is a good way to deal with quarrels, it’s easy to go further and believe that war is also a good way to harm and even get RID of other people.”
lay off, fire as in to terminate one from employment.
rid, to dispose of permamently, be done with, as in to rid an area of insects with pesticides that kill
they ofter get rid of the old employees
https://theintercept.com/2017/03/22/top-israelis-have-warned-of-apartheid-so-why-the-outrage-at-a-un-report/?comments=1#comment-376243
interesting choice of words, JERK
for more details on mass graves and NAKBA see the report
archive dot org /web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
Don’t fall for their tactic, where they ask stupid questions, and we answer them. This Jack Green claimed below that there’s no evidence for Israel ever having murdered an Arab. You can put out all the evidence you want and he’s going to keep coming back with the same questions.
Just ignore him, or answer him by answering a different question, of your choice. Their stupid hasbara tricks are a joke.
Now this is what I like and admission that the Chief and barb (the Zionist killed Jesus guy) are a we.
I don’t believe in God. Doesn’t mean I can’t find common cause with religious people who advocate for justice and peace and all sorts of goodness.
Stephen Colbert is one of my favorite human beings. And he’s a Catholic.
Max Blumenthal is one of my favorite human beings. He’s a practicing Jew.
Chris Hedges – Son of a Pastor, and a serious Christian.
But guess who I dislike – Bill Maher and Sam Harris. They’re both atheists.
Now you should come back with another tactic to divide us into boxes. That’s all you got. Tactics. It’s only to be expected when the truth is not on your side.
It is not about god. Barabbas is an out and out anti jewish racist.
No matter how much you’d like it to be the case, Anti-Israeli is not anti-Jewish.
it’s not but barabbas is anti Jewish. what’s so interesting is how many of your ranks drop their mask and reveal what they are and you can’t even tell the difference.
Blaming Zionism for the death of Jesus is anti-Semitic and barb has done this on many occasions. I don’t make false accusations that I can’t back up that would be you guys.
Stop dragging in Mel Gibson and Jesus into everything. Stick to the topic at hand.
Even if I or anybody were an anti-semite, what is your argument for Israeli behavior? That somebody is an anti-semite?? Fuck off. Stop killing children.
I didn’t mention Mel Gibson and I was quoting what barabbas has posted about Zionists killing Jesus. I didn’t call you an anti-Semite.
Try reading what I post and quit making false accusations. I’m sorry you keep getting humiliated but that’s your problem not mine.
i know that game very well ;-)
Egypt rid an area of a population , 100,000 people, when building the Aswan Dam. By your definition, that was genocide.
Israel does not want peace; it wants to steal the land it calls “Greater Israel”
Among the many pieces of evidence is Israel’s the constant demand that before they’ll negotiate with Palestinians, the latter must recognize Israel’s “right to exist.” There is no such right that inheres in any state. Moreover:
As I write this, the West Bank is being swallowed up completely by illegal colonial-settlers. That won’t be the end of Israel’s expansionism, unless and until the world makes them end it.
If Israel were expansionist, it never would have signed treaties with Egypt or Jordan.
Whenever Israel was offered peace, Israel chose peace over land. That’s why Israel signed a peace treaty with Jordan even though a large part of Jordan was Biblical Israel & Israel signed a peace treaty with Egypt even though part of the Sinai was part of Biblical Israel.
lay off, jerk.
hey barb just curious are you ramping up the crazy routine because it looks like Trump may be making those disability payments harder to collect?
The fact of the matter is Israel has given up far more land in order to have peace than it retained after ’67. And land that had oil on it to boot. Of course that doesn’t keep the dishonest propagandists from claiming that Israel is trying to take over the ME.
sure thing, genius.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clintons-uncanny-fulfillment-of-israels-yinon-plan-for-a-middle-east-riven-with-conflict/5541918
Oded Yinon, he’s a fictional comic book character?
GilG
Good points.
Oh yes it would! For the same reason, even in the face of disagreement among themselves, Zionists decided to accept the 1947 UN proposal for tactical reasons. They knew it was purely temporary. They had no intention of settling for that amount of land. (The Arabs also knew this.)
They still don’t have any intention of settling for anything less than Greater Israel, especially with the far right nutjobs now long in power.
Read Thomas Suarez’ book, State of Terror. Zionists have been telling lies for public consumption since the very beginning. They sound far more modest in their demands than they do when speaking the truth among themselves. The documentation for this long and ongoing Zionist duplicity is overwhelming. They lie; then, and now.
Zionists want a state that is majority-Jewish. Expansion means taking in gentiles thereby risking the Jews losing majority status.
“biblical Israel?”
ah, right. god said….
This is such an interesting fact in those comment sections. Many commenters essentially write their own articles: long essays about UN resolutions, Zionism, the history of Palestine etc. But shockingly they cannot even clarify their own goals. Some of them does not even understand what “occupation ” means, and they have absolutely no idea about what to do with the hostile occupying force.
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
The details you are looking for should be in this report.
Is the occupying force in Palestine in any way responsible for the deaths of Palestinians or other persons around the world who are killed for US support for the occupation of Palestine and murder of Palestinians?
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
Beueller? Bueller? Bueller?
Anyone else notice that all the detractors who question we who criticize Zionism and Israel have not addressed Mehdi Hasan’s question? Hasan recites a litany of Israeli Jews who speak of Israel being an apartheid state. Examples include:
Are these people all “Israel-bashers?” Are they all wrong, as I purportedly am, about what “apartheid” means?
It’s amazing how the brilliant Israeli establishment allowed self-hating Jews to serve in positions such as, uh, foreign minister, isn’t it?
But, hey, if Moshe Dayan quotes aren’t good enough for them, they’ll just never be satisfied. ;^(
Calling Israel an apartheid state because Israel maintains a Jewish majority is politically motivated – and wrong. That is what you have always maintained. That is what the anti-racists racists Tilley and Falk maintain in the UN report.
nor do i see any indications of understanding, sympathy, empathy, or willingness to consider the prospect that they may be wrong in any way of fashion. Also i do not see any religious quotes from the zioneesters here from biblical material that they hold so dearly for their claims. Quite remarkable and odd. They operate as ants in panic.
i feel badly for the real and good jewish persons in israel who are being placed in jeopardy by the monsters running their game on the population their. It makes me wonder if they are living under terroristic threats or bullytalk and bullythreats. I have read that the people there cannot broadcast contrary opinions.
You who criticize Israel apparently can’t even read an article correctly. Hassan did not “recite” a litany of Jews who spoke of Israel being an apartheid state he gave cited Israeli’s who gave warning that that is what Israel could become if a two state solution is not arrived at. Of course as per usual in the duplicitous manner we have become accustom to the Liel quote is not given in full here is more of it.
I have no problem with what he is saying. I think its wonderful that Israel allows this type of debate. Can you imagine what would happen in Gaza or the WB if a Palestinian politician counter Fatah or Hamas? But pretending that the Palestinians were and are not part of the problem and need to be part of the solution is as duplicitous as the truncation of the quote misstating poll statistics and telling only one side of the story.
Let’s look at what the response was after the ’67 war by the Arab league to the idea of peace:
Veteran Jewish anti-apartheid activist Denis Goldberg, whose release after two decades in a South African prison was aided by Israel, and who then !! LIVED !! in the Jewish state before leaving in protest, told a Johannesburg gathering that Israel is an apartheid state, the Middle East Monitor reported on Tuesday.
Noting that critics of this view protest that Palestinian citizens of Israel, unlike blacks in apartheid South Africa, vote and serve in their country’s parliament, Goldberg said, “You don’t need to be like South Africa to be an apartheid state, there is a definition in international law through the UNESCO declaration on apartheid,” he said.
Apartheid exists, he said, in states that enforce laws and policies that discriminate between people on the basis of race or religion, and this holds true in Israel proper as well as in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip. He was one of a panel of anti-apartheid activists discussing the lessons that struggle holds for the Palestinian cause.
Goldberg, 82, one of the original members of Umkhonto we Sizwe, the armed wing of the African National Congress, was sentenced with Nelson Mandela and other activists to life in prison in the 1964 Rivonia treason trial. He was released in 1985 with Israel’s intercession, then went to live on a kibbutz, but moved to London months later, denouncing Israel’s war in Lebanon, its occupation of the Palestinian territories, and its close ties with South Africa.
“There is no doubt in my mind that Israel is an apartheid state,” Goldberg told the gathering. “Having lived through apartheid in South Africa, I cannot allow in my name the same kind of oppression to go on.”
He added, “I have to be an opponent of the exclusionist policies of Zionism, but let me say straight away that I have to be opposed to the exclusionary policies of the feudal Arab states of the Middle East as well.”
Haaretz Jul 28, 2015 5:58 PM
I’m sorry if you are going to make a case make it. Saying that this person thinks it is proves nothing.
read the story in the link by a Palestinian who thinks the land of the bible belongs to Israel. Does that make it so Sonia ?
http://www.takeapen.org/Takeapen/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=84&FID=877
Hasbara troll, Jack Green
Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians:
And this was so. Zionism was and is a European, colonial movement. The settlers were not arriving to get along with the natives as the other Jews generally did quite well; they were coming to take the land over.
This is interesting. You write very long essays about Zionism, Israel Apartheid State….but you cannot even provide a coherent explanation of the goal you state you are seeking.
What does ending the occupation mean?
You answer nonsense such as “No nation is occupied “, then you start talking about return of refugees, which is goal no. 3 of BDS not goal no 1 regarding the occupation. Finally you wrote this:
“Palestinians seek that the Israeli military stop controlling their movements, imports and exports, and to cease assisting those settlers (and their descendants) who stole and continue to steal their land.”
The hostile army can still be on your territory without controlling movements, imports….What if the Israeli military is still in the West Bank but does not control movements, imports….would that be the end of the occupation?
Palestinians seek that the Israeli military stop controlling their movements, imports and exports, and to cease assisting those settlers (and their descendants) who stole and continue to steal their land.
Unbelievable. So, you whole point is to write long comments about Zionism and Israel. You have absolutely no idea what should happen to the Israeli military with regards to the your primary goal of ending the occupation.
I don’t care what happens to the Israeli military if they end the occupation (assuming they don’t then turn to other forms of oppression and injustice). Why you do care, and persist in asking me this irrelevant question is damned peculiar.
“I don’t care what happens to the Israeli military if they end the occupation”
The Israeli military is a HOSTILE force, hence why it is an occupying force. If you want the occupation to end, then the hostile force must leave or be destroyed. If you have no idea where the hostile force should leave to, then you have no idea what ending the occupation means. If the hostile force does not leave or destroyed, how the hell you end the occupation. Or maybe you wish to change the hostile force into a friendly force.
“Why you do care, and persist in asking me this irrelevant question is damned peculiar.”
If you want the end of the occupation, then what should happen to the occupying force is actually the most relevant question.
As with the Palestinians, I seek that the Israeli military stop controlling their movements, imports and exports, and to cease assisting those settlers (and their descendants) who stole and continue to steal their land. Where they go as long as they cease those things — and do not turn to other oppressive actions — I do not care.
What it is that you claim I must mean are care about is wholly irrelevant. What you (of all dim people) claim I purportedly don’t understand I do not care about.
Are you dense? Or is asking stupid questions part of the tactics they teach at Hasbara school?
I hope one day you will finally write something that makes sense.
Attack the comment, not the commenter.
Tell us how my questions are stupid.
As you are telling everybody how stupid those questions are, don’t forget that NAZI occupiers did allow free movements in certain areas they occupied.
He actually is — I mean this sincerely — a bit dense. A few weeks ago he was frustrating even the long-suffering and patient Sufi Muslim with his obtuseness. It isn’t always clear, tho, how much he really doesn’t get, and how much he pretends not to get just to be annoying and disruptive.
“few weeks ago he was frustrating even the long-suffering and patient Sufi Muslim with his obtuseness.”
Yep!! What took you so long? Spread of falsehoods when unable to present coherent arguments.
Normally I would say checkmate, but that was not even a debate.
Have a good day for now.
Please detail to us the ZIONESE PLAN TO MURDER CHILDREN AND BLAME THE WORLD because of BDS.
Assure us that this is just a desperate move since the YINON PLAN is failing.
Also explain how this murderous plan is any different than the murder of Palestinians.
thank you.
I’ve asked you before to read the Brghouti interview; he isn’t coy about his goals. Israel should stop all this:
Perhaps English is not your first language? That’s all quite clear.
HE WAS NOT EXPLAINING WHAT “ENDING THE OCCUPATION MEANS”. HE WAS DESCRIBING THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING UNDER THE CONTROL OF AN OCCUPYING FORCE.
You do have a serious problem if you cannot see your extreme lack of analytical skills. You are unable to answer very simple questions.
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ISRAELI ARMY (THE OCCUPYING FORCE) WITH REGARDS TO YOUR GOAL OF ENDING THE OCCUPATION?
The HOSTILE force must leave or be destroyed or the territory will still be under occupation.
There are two options:
1) A “two-state” solution with a fully sovereign Palestinian state — the IDF would retreat to its own country.
2) A “one-state” solution with a single secular democracy over all of historic Palestine — in this case the IDF is just the army of that country.
Why is this confusing to you?
There is nothing confusing in what you wrote. Provide your answer to the commenter Mona and ask her what BDS wants among those two options.
This reminds me of idyllic pictures of slavery described by slaveholders.
The truth is that Palestinians have been oppressing Jews for centuries.
In 1839, the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem…lives from day to day in terror of his life….Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace,”
JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.
ah. so the zionista motivation for slaughtering Palestinians and stealing their land has nothing to do with a genocidal criminal enterprise but instead is REVENGE!
Let’s see how that plays out. Zions kill more steal more. Generations hence it’s the revenge upon the israelis by the dispossessed Palestinians. Then wash rinse repeat. EFFIN’ GENIUS!
You may not realise it, but crazy persons with shit for brains are not really good (biblically good) at solving problems.
Arabs were murdering innocent Jews in March 1920.
Evidence that even one square inch of land was stolen by Zionists?
Evidence that even one Arab was murdered by a Zionist?
Isnt this the article Mona got caught lying about multiple times? Why yes I believe it is.
Considering that Israeli Jews & Palestinian Arabs are both “Semites”
and the Rome Statute defines apartheid as the domination of one racial group over another, is Israel technically (not morally) not guilty of apartheid ?
Either way, the state of Israel, in my opinion, is hastening its own demise.
under the concept that we are all descendents of Adam and Eve, that would make genocide the equivalent of patricide, matricide and in a way, suicide.
Many of the Blacks of the Olde South were related (due to the rape of slaves being seen as a way for a ‘gentleman’ to entertain himself) to the White politicians and oligarchs who passed and enforced the Jim Crow/Segregation laws. Would you say that made those laws and practices not ‘the dominantion of one racial group over another’?
Every occupier dominates the occupied, but no one ever calls occupation apartheid.
In response to the headline, which I rarely do: Some people’s fauxrage button is closer to the surface and on more of a hair-trigger than other buttons.
Too many states enacted laws similar to State and each other. Punishment, criminal charges, refuse to do business, treat as a hate crime? Keep your hands off my First Amendment, a*holes.
Excellent journalism Mehdi on a topic that needs to be dealt with in many more ways than just the BDS movement…post haste all you good people that still see humanity as a good thing…. BOYCOTT*DIVEST*SANCTION
575,000 Iraqi children died from sanctions.
If 575,000 Israeli children die from BDS,
what will you say when your children ask
why did you participate in the deaths of Israeli children?
“575,000 Iraqi children died from sanctions.”
Sanctions imposed by people like Madeleine Albright with help from Henry Kissinger.
What country do they think is most special … (it’s not America)
Why are Israeli children more important than other children? Is it the Holocaust®™ again?
Who said that Israeli children more important than other children?
All the Israeli’s have to do to prevent those deaths is treat their neighbors like human beings; is that so difficult?
How should you treat your neighbor who is firing rockets & mortars at you, running you over, stabbing you in the back, blowing up your bus, etc.?
“575,000 Iraqi children died from sanctions.” More specifically, those children died as a result of an ongoing bombing campaign, coupled with the intentional destruction of Iraq’s water supply (a heinous crime under the geneva convention), coupled with an embargo that prevented the importation of medical supplies and water treatment equipment (equipment that had no conceivable military application). I read the now-declassified planning for that campaign on the Pentagon website, and the US military predicted with chilling accuracy what kind of numbers and demographics would be killed by the resulting disease epidemics. That was a criminal act calculated to cause a huge loss of life, and it’s entirely possible to run sanctions in ways that don’t do that.
Look at South Africa: the boycotts and sanctions against their apartheid were very effective without causing any harm. Especially cultural boycotts. South African media was largely silent about the boycott efforts, but when the South African rugby team visited NZ and was unable to play because thousands of protesters invaded the pitch, there was no way to keep that silent from rugby-mad South Africans. Friends from that country have told me how effective those demonstrations were in making them realise for the first time how much the rest of the world despised what they were doing.
BDS. Tried and proven. A great strategy and the only moral response.
South Africa is self-sufficient in food.
Israel is not.
If hundreds of thousands of Israelis die from BDS,
what will you answer when your children ask why you participated in their deaths?
Nobody’s going to sanction Israel for Children’s medicines like was done for Iraq. Sanctions against Israel seems to be centered around arts and culture and education.
Jack Green is a hasbara troll and we’ve been thru this with him literally dozens of times. BDS didn’t kill South Africans when it was apartheid South Africa, and it isn’t going to kill Israeli kids, either.
What South Africa couldn’t tolerate was its ongoing status as the pariah of the Western world. Israel isn’t liking it, either: “Don’t play Sun City” is now “Don’t play Tel AViv,” and Zionists aren’t happy. Too bad.
Jack Green ask the right questions. You continually repeat the same anti-Zionist talking points Mona.
Reply. (Scroll to the comment highlighted in gray if your browser doesn’t take you to it.)
Evidence that most Israelis will allow the return of millions of refugees so Israel won’t be considered a pariah?
No. All sorts of products are being boycotted.
If Israel can’t sell its products, it can’t get money.
If it can’t get money, it can’t buy food.
Israel is not self-sufficient in food.
Israelis will starve to death.
How will you explain to your children why you participated in causing the deaths of your fellow human beings?
You sound like a good nazi. Your argument once again displays a willingness to use people as HUMAN SHIELDS to run a criminal enterprise to murder people for their land. Your argument states that isreal holds their own populations as hostages. WAY BEYOND DESPICABLE.
“Human Shields” “hostages”
What are you talking about?
Regarding the supposed 50 discriminatory laws.
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/adalah_s_database_of_laws_imagining_racism_to_demonize_israel_/
That’s rather like citing AIPAC to say that the Amnesty International (et alia) ‘grossly exaggerated’ the number of civilians that Israel slaughtered during ‘Cast Dead’.
NGO Monitor should not be taken seriously
They hate and spew misleading crap about many international human rights organizations organizations:
They carry on so absurdly because:
But what’s Gil gonna do? We post so much truth unflattering to Zionism and Israel, he has to himself post something. [shrug]
Oh please Mona come off it. You continually post what you consider history by people who are nothing more than professional Israel bashers who have zero credentials as historians like Suarez, a musician and Blumenthal a so called journalist , and yet you criticize “NGO Monitor’s editor, Gerald Steinberg who is a Professor of Political Studies at Bar Ilan University,” The fact of the matter is you are incapable of countering the arguments in the link I gave so you discredit the source.
I would have thought after getting exposed making false claims about the one state two state poll you would have been embarrassed and stayed away for a while. But no ever the propagandist you just keep telling the same lies over and over.
And of course Mona doesn’t actually challenge any of the claims in the link because she can’t. Too funny. Go ahead tell me again how your poll claimed more Palestinians were in favor of a one state solution. Too funny.
Your claim might have some validity Rich if you could counter the claims of the article. Of course you won’t the same way you ran away after commenting on my post below, you will run again when challenged to actually back up your claim. I think you are still smarting from our last encounter when I proved your false your claim that Mandela was unwilling to compromise in negotiations.
Remember ?
typical when asked to put up or shut up Richie shuts up.
For further analysis of Israel’s purported “right” to exist, see this excerpt from Ali Abunimah’s book, The Battle for Justice in Palestine.
You can spend decades writing about right to exist. The notion does not even exist in International Laws. Nations (or organizations) rely on international agreements to defend their positions. For instance, BDS relies on UN Resolution 194 to support its no. 3 demand:
“Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194″
So my question is still what does BDS mean by Ending the Occupation?
Does it mean that the hostile army (Israel) must leave the areas it occupies according to what the UN considers “occupied territories”?
Asked and answered.
No, you did not. Or maybe you cannot.
Example:
Germany occupied France in 1940. It was an occupation according to Article 42, Hague Regulations 1907. In 1944, the Allies pushed the German hostile army back to the borders of 1940. The occupation ended at that point as the hostile army lost control of the territory it occupied.
You wrote about refugees, control of movements….A country can still be under occupation even when refugees are returning. A hostile army can grant the people it occupies freedom of movements. Remember the key word “HOSTILE”.
Let’s make it easy for you. What happens to the HOSTILE Israeli army in your goal? Does it leave? Does it stay? If it leaves where does it go?
It just has to stop.
Mona-
Off topic-but this is where you are today: You are a big reader- do you read anything other than the zio/not zio false binary literature?
Award winning journalist Michelle McPhee makes the case that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a targeted asset of both the FBI and the CIA, and she has written a book that gives you a glimpse of what targeted persons go through: “Maximum Harm: The Tsarnaev Brothers, the FBI, and the Road to the Marathon Bombing”
She spent three years researching it, and has come to the conclusion that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a dual aset of both CIA and FBI.
The recruitment methods they use border on the psychopathic, mirror some of the complaints of targeted individuals, and often end in results like the Boston Bombing. And you know as fact that the Intercept here has covered many more such ‘recruitment’ schemes and FBI foils FBI plot narratives.
Why do you constantly demean those who try to escape this exploitation?This is a serious question, and I would like an answer, if you could.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4267964/Boston-Marathon-bomber-worked-U-S-government.html
Most “Targeted Individuals” are mentally ill. This thread, however, is not about that topic and I’ll have no more to say about it.
Yes, as noted above, I am not attempting to thread-jack (because we all know how important it is to regurgitate zionist/anti-zionist racial supremacist binary upon the world)-I responded to you here because it was where you were active that day-and where you replied, rather than responding at the other thread.
I agree with you that mental illness is frequently involved and often induced as well. And, yes, please respond at the other thread, where you dubiously inveigled and inferred that I was somehow disingenuous.
Lastly-Michelle McPhee’s work should enlighten you as to the “how” of this topic, and the “why” some appear nuts, though they are not.
But I would appreciate your response to the McPhee piece, if for no other reason than to validate the portion of those that are real cases, and lend evidence to the factual basis of their complaints.
Alright. Mona refuses to answer the most basic question on any thread, so to anyone looking in, for posterity:
Mona Hollande does a great dis-service to whistle blowers and others when she participates in discrediting the narrative of targeted individuals, and continuously posts a link regarding targeted individuals goes to one of the most classic examples of a discrediting narrative that one could find on the entire net, and mentions only the known nutters (most f whom are well know disinformation or former intelligence agency employees) who speak on the topic.
But Mona fails to mention that people like NYPD whistle blower Adrian Scoolcraft, and NSA whistle blower William Binney, actress Jean Seberg; police and fire personnel around America, and even the Intercept’s former BFF @ioerror reported gang stalking.
Mona’s link contains he main claim is that TI’s are crazy, and psychiatrists are gods of rationality, and that MKULTRA, and the American Psychiatric Association’s complete and historic obsession with Nazi’s never happened. Oh-and that the DSM was NOT written by mind controllers.
But here- from the APA site itself, is a history of the APA’s complete obsession with both mind control, and Nazi’s.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/03/nazi.aspx
And this, as Donald Ewen Cameron-the father of MKULTRA and punitive psychiatry, and a soft eugenics proponent was influential in the American Psychiatric Association-in 1952-when the DSM was written. Oh- and Cameron ALSO shared the glory of diagnosing an entire nation-Germany- with a mental illness.
Any halfwit who Google’s “psychology and Nazi’s” will find ample evidence of this obsession among psychologists.
Oh, that Mona is either mean, delusional, or, one of these unfortunates:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW
The most important tactic used for propaganda is to compare Israel to Apartheid South Africa as the authors of the UN report did. This almost solely based on Israel maintaining a Jewish majority state. Israel has land and immigration laws which favor Jews only because they are a small minority world-wide. The laws are discriminatory, but don’t define apartheid. Applying “apartheid” to Israel is strictly done for propaganda purposes by the radical left and far right to delegitimize the Jewish state.
Apartheid South Africa was a system of legal separation based on race. Laws were passed to enforce the separation of races. From Wikipedia:
These laws are obviously not present in Israel. In addition Benjamen Pogrund writes at the Guardian:
Israeli Arabs clearly face discrimination and racism, but that doesn’t define apartheid. Those same comparisons have been advanced for decades and it has never gained any traction because the designation is used for political purposes to undermine the legitimacy of the Jewish-majority state. Yet, there clearly is no applicability to Israel.
It’s astonishing how similar reading your rationalizations on the IP dilemma (after knowing you’ve seen contrary and more accurate information for years) to that of the establishment Democrats who still think ‘neoliberalism’ isn’t even a thing, much less an ideology that was openly advocated on their behalf (and at a high final cost to the rest of us) for decades.
As with apartheid Israel, the glory days of 3rd Way neoliberalism are over.
Willful ignorance is truly party and ideology neutral – a universal human trait.
Sillyputty
Neoliberalism is well off topic, and a politically loaded, poorly defined term. I prefer capitalism and market liberalization in a globalized economy. Regardless, hundreds of millions of people world-wide have been lifted out of poverty (especially in India and China). You might seek better ways to control corporations or to redistribute wealth in a more equitable manner, but the world has made tremendous gains under “neoliberal policies” for a long time. Capitalism is no more going away than globalization. And it has nothing to do with Israel.
Any readers interested in a matching of facts on the ground in Israel and the occupied territories vis-a-vis international law and standards on apartheid, see my comment here.
To see Craig’s claims (well, the claims of the Israeli government’s official propaganda department flowing through Craig) as thoroughly, comprehensively, and exhaustively as the Birther claims were, https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/342220531/UN-ESCWA-report-on-Israeli-apartheid#from_embed
That was why the guy who the US made the Secretary General of the UN had to yank that report, and could only do it by claiming ‘procedural irregularities’, not inaccuracies or bias.
Right Richard. You would never expect to see “bias” from an anti-colonialist like Virginia Tilley or an anti-Israel activist like Richard Falk – or even a Jordanian overseeing the project like Ms. Khalef. I wonder if Ms. Khalef ever commissioned a report on the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem (of Jews) and the denial of access to the Temple Mount for Jews (only) when Jordan controlled the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
As it is, a 2011 Pew poll showed that 97% of Jordanians dislike Jews. Khalef is likely a fucking racist anyway.
No state has a “right to exist, ” including Israel
If one thinks about it it becomes immediately apparent that this is so — after all, it isn’t as if the Soviet Union can take Russia to The Hague and demand it’s return. Rights inhere in people, and peoples have a right to self-determination.
But no one has a right to ethnically cleanse land, steal it, and subjugate the refugees to effect their “self-determination.” Founding an ethno-religious supremacist state in that manner, and on that basis, is no one’s “right.”
Further, Zionist Israel was and is the aggressor and oppressor. Israel:
So much falsehood suffuses the Zionist narrative. In addition to the notion of state’s having a “right” to exist, is the absurd notion that Palestinians were unreasonable in rejecting the proposed UN partition plan in 1947:
Moreover, Zionists had no intention of settling for what the ’47 plan (inappropriately) purported to alot them, which Arabs well understood:
Zionism was and is a violent, European, settler-colonialist project that always sought to possess “Greater Israel” for a Jewish majority, by any means necessary.
All quotes from this article in Foreign Policy Journal.
@ AthiestInChief
I wanted to thank you again for the video link you provided. I watched from the marker to the end. While Ben Ami says the Palestinians should have rejected the Clinton accords, he doesn’t really say why they should have.
But no matter. Even if the Clinton accords were not good enough to accept, that is no reason to end negotiations and declare Intifada and start shelling civilian positions, right?
In any case, I’ll make the time to watch the entire debate from the beginning. It’s definitely worth watching for anyone.
It’s greatly appreciated and here is the link if anyone else is interested in watching it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-CiTT2OxlQ&feature=youtu.be&t=22m12s
Speaking truth is not a hate crime. Denouncing hate crimes is not a hate crime. Israel is an apartheid state.
This article has a photo of an apartheid sign on a beach in South Africa.
Show me a photo of a similar sign in Israel.
Some “signs” are burned into brains and imprinted on souls rather than merely painted on sheet metal.
Scroll to the top of this page.
What is that photo?
It’s a photo of Palestinians lined up at one of the many Israeli checkpoints in the occupied West Bank.
“occupied”
That’s what happens in occupation, but no one ever calls occupations apartheid.
“Welcome to Betar Checkpoint’
This checkpoint is for the passage of Israelis only. It is forbidden to pass and/or drive a person through this checkpoint, who is not Israeli!!
“Israeli” – a resident of Israel, a person who lives in the area and is a citizen of Israel, or a person ENTITLED TO MAKE ALIYAH TO ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE [JEWISH] LAW OF RETURN, 1950, AS VALID IN ISRAEL”
Boycott
Divest
Sanction
This is the HUMAN solution to eliminating a certain collective of murderous thieves in the act of genocide to steal land.
Adolf Hitler resisted BDS and look where it got him.
575,000 Iraqi children died from sanctions.
How would having 575,000 Israeli children die from sanctions be the HUMAN solution?
Using children as hostages, human shields?
that’s your plan?
The free world exercises the right to BDS a country gone mad and israel threatens children with starvation?
That mad dog at the top, 700 illegal nukes, what next?
If the world doesnt give the criminal zionese running israel what it wants, then what?
BDS is threatening children with starvation!
@swisscheese
BDS is a strategy to achieve a three-pronged goal. A year ago, Greenwald interviewed BDS co-founder, Omar Barghouti. Barghouti — who is the husband of a Palestinian citizen of Israel — set forth the “three planks in our BDS call of 2005, which is ending the occupation, ending the racial discrimination in Israel and the system of apartheid and right of return.”
In other words, the goals of the BDS movement are exactly the same as this report which is to end the Jewish right to self-determination.
(Scroll to comment in gray if browser doesn’t go right to it.)
Forgot link!
The phrase “Jewish right to self-determination” is typically used to imply that Israelis should have the unrestricted right to deny Palestinians their own self-determination.
Rights have limits. We have the right to freedom of religion but we don’t have the right to murder or enslave others, for instance.
So, perhaps you feel Israelis have the right to self-defense? Fair enough (and so do the Palestinians), but arguably much of this conflict is driven by racist attacks that have no conceivable defense purpose, and only serve to make things less safe for everyone, not more.
I see two kids fighting in the playground. One is a puny little 7-year-old Palestinian boy lying on his back, covered in his own blood. On top of him is a brawny 13-year-old Israeli boy who’s bashing the s**t out of him. I don’t need to know who started the fight, but I know bloody well who ought to be ending it.
Thanks Ben – a reasonable reply. I believe that Israel is denying the Palestinian right to self determination. That needs to change, but it won’t until Netanyahu departs.
“Ending the occupation”
Means back to the 1967 Border?
I suggest you read the Barghouti interview. Among other things, he correctly declares:
Barghouti does not seem to focus on borders, be they 1967, or 1948.
“Barghouti does not seem to focus on borders, be they 1967, or 1948.”
I am sincerely confused. My question was
Ending the occupation means what?
If a nation is occupied, that means there is a foreign force on its territory. Ending occupation means foreign forces should go. So, the goal is “ending the occupation”
Does it mean Israel forces must go back to the borders recognized by the UN as of 1967? Or what exactly?
This is the source of your confusion:
No nation is occupied; refugees are (or their descendants are). The refugees seek the right to return to their stolen lands. They seek for the Israeli military to stop controlling their movements, imports and exports, and to cease assisting those settlers (and their descendants) who stole and continue to steal their land.
Actually you seem more confused than I am:
“No nation is occupied”
Article 42, 1907 Hague Regulations:
‘Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised’
“Article 42 of the Hague Regulations can be regarded as the only legal basis on which the determination of the existence of a state of occupation can be made.” Dr Tristan Ferraro, International Committee of the Red Cross, (ICRC Review Volume 94, No. 885, Spring 2012)
“Nation: a community of people made up of one or more nationalities usually with its own territory and government” Merriam Webster
If you are creating your own definition of occupation, then it is a completely different debate.
“The refugees seek the right to return to their stolen lands.”
This is from goal no 3 in BDS. I asked you about goal no.1. In order to end the occupation the hostile army must leave and go back where it came from or the hostile army must be destroyed. Since BDS is non violent, then I assume it wants the hostile army to go back where it came from. My question to you is where will the hostile army go?
I repeat: Palestinians seek that the Israeli military stop controlling their movements, imports and exports, and to cease assisting those settlers (and their descendants) who stole and continue to steal their land.
Palestinians are not a nation; they are refugees from Zionist ethnic cleansing and land theft.
Nor does Barghouti focus on what the UN demanded of Israel (from your post below):
Compensation is reasonable, but for fanatical anti-Zionists like Barghouti (and Mona), compensation is not enough. That’s because the goal of the BDS is to repatriate refugees with their former homes in Israel i.e., end the Jewish majority state.
Well, if repatriating people (and their descendants) who have been dispossessed of their homes and ethnically cleansed from their homeland results in the loss of majority status for the people responsible for said dispossession and “cleansing,” why would that be an unfair or undesirable result — in generally-recognized moral or ethical terms?
I think in moral and ethical terms, it would be great if the Palestinian refugees were allowed to return. I have no problem with that at all. It would also be great if the Jews that were ethnically cleansed from the greater Middle East were at least compensated (since I doubt they would want to return).
The Palestinians, Arab militias and Arab states rejected the partition and attacked Israel leading to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. The ethnic cleansing resulted from Arab and Palestinian military aggression as well as opposition to the partition. Their return creates all kinds of problems since their homes and land are occupied now. Israel would no longer be a Jewish majority state if they were allowed to return (defeating the idea of Zionism). In that respect, you cannot blame Israelis for rejecting their return. They might as well settle for the one state solution which certainly most Israelis reject.
Finally, the Palestinian refugees have been refugees for 65 years without the host country assimilating the Palestinians. Why were they not assimilated into the host countries (except Jordan)? The Palestinian refugees have become permanent welfare recipients within their host Arab countries. That is a pathetic statement about Arab compassion.
Palestinian refugees became refugees because they were murdering innocent Jews. Because they were murdering innocent Jews, they forfeit the right to return. Israelis have the right to life so Israel should not be required to endanger its citizens by allowing the return of the same people who were murdering innocent Jews so they can murder more innocent Jews.
yes.
After that, you can offer to BUY land, the good old fasioned human way instead of using nazi methods to acquire land.
ARE YOU A SAYANIM?
Zionists did purchase quite a bit of land in Mandate Palestine, from absentee Arab landlords. then they prohibited the native Arabs from working in the businesses or continuing to live on the lands they’d been renting. The Zionists had a “Jews only” employment and residence policy. (Which was one of the causes of Arab rioting.)
That said, they could not begin to obtain all of the land they desired through purchase. Ibn Saud, the founder of Saudi Arabia, refused to sell it. At which point Zionist bombings and assassinations — already plentiful — became so ubiquitous and constant that the British quickly abandoned Mandate Palestine, caving to the terrorists. Then Zionist terrorists took the Arab land by force and founded Israel.
When people take over a business, they ofter get rid of the old employees & bring in their own employees. Does that justify murdering the new owner or murdering people who practice the same religion as the new owner?
Hypocritical for Arabs to complain about a Jews only policy when Arabs had an Arabs only policy first.
Only some Jews had a Jews only policy.
“Jews had no trouble finding Arabs to sell them land”
The Arab World: An Illustrated History, Kirk H. Sowell, page 168
Palestinians started a war against the Jews in 1947 on the day after the Partition Resolution passed. Haj Amin el-Husseini – “I declare a holy war, my Muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!” – November 1947
Wars create refugees. People flee their land. That’s not theft.
Evidence that even one square inch of land was stolen by Zionists before 1947?
“Wars create refugees. People flee their land. That’s not theft.”
You are right. It’s not theft but a war crime to start a war to drive people from their land; genocide in other words.
I didn’t think you’d come around there Jack old buddy.
The truth cannot be denied no matter how many hasbarats they churn out.
get rid of
to dispose of
as in disposing waste
YOU ARE DESPICABLE.
where do you hide your other 2 or 4 appendages, claws and pincers?
removed with plastic surgery?
or was it THE OTHER WAY AROUND?
Mona is aware that Zionists tapped into British power because Britain had the geopolitical/military power to make Jewish nationalism a reality (in much the same way as Russia could give the Donbass separatists a state of their own). South Ossetia and Abkhazia are using Russian power to create their own autonomous region in Georgia. This is exactly how Zionists used the great Power of Britain to develop a state of their own.
Zionism differs from colonialism:
1. Jerusalem is and was the holiest city in Judaism with a long history of Jewish settlement (Land of Israel). Although Palestinian Arabs far outnumbered the amount of Jews in Palestinian when immigration began in the late 1800s, there were Jews living in Palestine and throughout the Middle East (for thousands of years). Jews did not see themselves as “foreigners”. This is completely different than European settlements in North America, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc.
2. Europeans were motivated by expansion and trade (economic benefits). Jews were motivated by centuries of anti-Jewish bigotry and pogroms (Wikipedia):
Anti-Jewish pogroms and racism were common in Eastern Europe especially in Russia where much of the immigration originated. Tens of thousands of Jews were killed in Russia between 1918 and 1922. Jews were long second class citizens under Islamic rule (throughout the greater Middle East). Jews were motivated by creating a homeland for the Jewish people to escape persecution.
3. Jewish people did not claim Palestine in the name of one of the era’s great powers like Britain or France. They did ride the coattails of the great powers to obtain their goal of a homeland through the British Mandate in Palestine, but no immigrant got off the boat and stuck a British flag in the ground claiming it for Britain. The British washed their hands of Palestine in May, 1948. There was no war against Britain to obtain independence.
4. Fourth, they didn’t fight or displace the natives like the colonial powers in the various locations around the world. They immigrated peacefully and obtained land mostly by buying from absentee land owners. There were no slaughters of the native population to obtain the land (although there was clearly tension interspersed with some violence). There was no ethnic cleansing prior to the war of Independence.
Do you have that urge to murder some Palstinians today?
Maybe if you kill enough of them your fearless leader will give you a medal and shake your hand and make you ONE OF THEM.
“………Do you have that urge to murder some Palstinians today?…..”
Today, it’s Russians……
zionese – a race of people who cannot tolerate others
– a race of people with a mental disorder who make moves to satisfy the pain of life by taking from others – to have more, to deprive others so that the perception of pain of others make themselves feel relatively better
– a collection of criminal minds wit a common purpose
– an operation like an insect colony for their perfect world
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
israel is a criminal apartheid state with 700 illegal nukes in a state of paranoia with a madman in charge and every finger on the trigger
Craig Summers continues to absurdly object to parties “comparing [Israel] to to ‘colonialism.'” In this case, he offers that “comparison” to reject the authors of the UN apartheid report.
But no mere “comparison” is needed. Summers is entirely aware that Zionists themselves explicitly presented Zionism as a European, colonial project, which it was and is. The Second Father of Zionism, Vladimir Jabotinsky, was entirely candid about that reality. Writing in 1920s Palestine, Jabotinsky declared in argument against his fellow Jews who objected to settler-colonial conquest of the native Arabs:
The First Father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, also explicitly modeled the Zionist project on European colonialism, especially that in Africa.
Israel is a colonial project of ethnic cleansing, land theft and apartheid. Explicitly modeled on the same project that brought apartheid South Africa.
Of course moral people informed of international law, such as Jeiwsh-American Richard Falk and the Jordanian Rima Khalef — authors of the UN report — reject apartheid Israel. All informed and moral people do.
My question is why people say Israel’s domination of the Palestinians has only been going on 50 years. Israel declared itself a state in 1948. That is almost 70 years since they took the land over violently and suppressed the human rights of the Palestinians who lived on that land. SEVENTY YEARS not FIFTY! Too long. This must end. #FreePalestine and turn it into a state of all its inhabitants with equal rights for all. Then we can talk about it being a democracy.
Palestinians have been oppressing Jews for centuries.
In 1839, the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem…lives from day to day in terror of his life….Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace,”
JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.
Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived in Palestine. Notice the word bigotry.
Jews had lived for centuries in Hebron & Gaza until they were ethnically cleansed from those areas in 1929.
During the week of riots from 23 to 29 August, 133 Jews were killed by Arabs and 339 others were injured,
and now Palestinians oppress Israelis
Running over Israelis is oppression.
Stabbing Israelis is oppression.
Shooting Israelis is oppression.
Firing rockets at Israelis is oppression.
Blowing up Israelis is oppression.
Throwing rocks at Israelis is oppression.
King David Hotel: over 90 dead because Jews detonated 2 bombs, a small one to lure people in and then the big one to take them out.
Jews: hanging RAF soldiers from lampposts less than a year after the British liberated death camps.
Thanks to Donald Trump, people are being reminded that almost exactly a 100 years ago, a newspaper in Germany started running a series highlighting ‘Jewish attacks on Christians’, with similar flaws, and similar intent to what Jack posted.
Mona writes to Galacticus:
Here is classic Mona twisting the truth. The Palestinians (and Arab countries) rejected the partition with violence whereas Israel accepted the partition plan. The military actions by Jews against the Palestinians and Arab countries was a reaction to violence committed by the Palestinians (and Arab militias) and the invasion by Arab armies after the partition was announced by the UN.
The Palestinians’ violence was as nothing compared with the Zionists’ campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing. Zionists were using Jewish children, including adolescent girls, to, e.g., blow up buses full of Arab civilians, and Zionists were targeting dissident Jews for assassination. You’ve seen all that documented many times.
And to repeat why the Palestinians despised the UN, the CIA in 1949 well-understood why that body had no credibility with the Arabs:
*Another of the many reasons is that the proposed partition gave away ancient Palestinian cities and villages that were not the UN’s to give. Any people would have reacted against such a proposal, especially in the face of an ongoing and bloody terror campaign by those “awarded” their land.
“……….The Palestinians’ violence was as nothing compared with the Zionists’ campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing…….”
Moving the goal post again from your previous false statement (by the way, are you going to forget about – yet again – the 900,000 Jews ethnically cleansed from the greater Middle East?).
READERS: In general, I do not reply to Craig Summers, an authoritarian, pro-torture Republican who said he was voting for Donald Trump. The extent I have done so in this thread so far will be the end of my substantive replies to him. I will answer any requests for evidence of my positions, or answers to his points, from others whom I deem to be requesting such in good faith.
In other words……..oops Craig has got me there…….
you sound insane
Are you going to kill any Palestinians today, claim self defence, and take their land as compensation for your efforts?
After you murder all the Palestinians, which you refuse to call genocide, then what, syria? lebanon? iran? egypt? turkey? austria? checkoslavakia? greece?
you can make lots of crazy threats with 700 illegal nukes.
Mr. Hasan
Just like the article by Greenwald, this is another disingenuous and dishonest article about Israel.
Ms. Khalef is a Jordanian which has a population of about 3,000,000 Palestinians – so she is certainly sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians. The UN report was written by two well known, long time anti-Israel activists that support the one state solution. It’s clear that Ms. Khalef was looking for a particular (controversial) result by the choice of authors. There was no attempt to understand or defend the underlying reasons for Zionism. In other words, this was clearly a politically-motivated, one-sided report – an attack on the majority Jewish population of Israel (itself). Thus, the “occupation” (West Bank) is irrelevant to the conclusions.
Richard Falk and Virginia Tilley cite the 2004 ICJ decision rightly recognizing the Palestinian right to self-determination while at the same time the authors of the UN report apparently don’t agree that Jews have the same right (although the 2004 ICJ decision clearly grants Jews the same right to self-determination). Tilley and Falk compare Israel to apartheid South Africa because of land and immigration laws which favor Jews. This is because Jews are a small population world-wide which requires laws to maintain a majority Jewish population. Israel is compared to apartheid South Africa to delegitimize Zionism by equating Zionism to colonialism despite the very different reasons for the immigration by Jews to Palestine. At the same time, the comparison to “colonialism” ignores the fundamental 3000 year Jewish connection to Palestine (Jerusalem). Additionally, Jewish people endured centuries of antisemitism from Christians and Muslims which motivated Jewish nationalism in the first place. Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian empire at the end of the nineteenth century and beginning of the twentieth century, in particular, motivated mass immigration to Palestine.
Ms. Khalef is attempting to revitalize UN resolution 3379 passed in 1975 which wrongly called Jewish immigration to Palestine a colonial venture and falsely compared Israel to apartheid South Africa. The resolution was revoked in 1991 simply because the comparison doesn’t apply.
This was a really poor report which crosses the line from (rightly) criticizing Israel for denying the Palestinian right to self-determination to denying Jews the very same right. The authors showed their bias and blatant hypocrisy. The UN is better off without Ms. Khalef.
What do the likuds say about zionese who havent killed any Palestinians and taken their land? Are they cowards? Aren’t you a participant in that huge effort, helping out, doing your part? Or are you just a blabbering cheerleader with the stuff it takes to really pitch in and do your part for THE CAUSE?
@Galactus who continues to err
Israel holds itself out as a “modern liberal democracy,” which it in fact is not. It is by mandate of law an ethno-religious supremacist state, unlike any other Western democracy. It has an established religion — the Orthodox rabbinate controls much of Israeli civil law. And it prohibits non-Jews from constituting more than about 30% of the population, and does this in large part by maintaining the Arabs it ethnically cleansed in the Bantustans of Gaza and the West Bank.
That is not a democracy. It is an ethno-supremacist state, and as such is admired by many white supremacists, including many neo-Nazis. These in, e.g., the U.S., aspire to do here for whites of Christian heritage what Zionists have done for Jews in Israel.
“Israel holds itself out as a “modern liberal democracy,” which it in fact is not.”
Okay, like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, North Korea, Cuba, (the United States according to Doug) Israel is not a democracy. Actually, reading your essays one can only conclude that Israel is the worst terrorist, criminal, apartheid state in the history of mankind. Okay, we got it.
Now, it is time to tell us what the Palestinians want. Not you. The Palestinians.
Stop pretending like the Israel gives a shit about what Palestinians want. If they did, we wouldn’t be here.
Dude, are you capable of writing anything that makes sense?
It is not whether Israel cares about what Palestinians want. It is about the world helping the Palestinians getting what they want. That is why the world needs to know what they want!
The armchair warriors would rather see the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza live under occupation rather than have any agreement that includes the continuation of the state of Israel, and they are willing for it to continue for as long as it takes, from the comfort of their armchairs of course. They really have no interest in what the Palestinians want only in their politics. As we saw on the other thread they don’t even really know what the Palestinians want.
That’s right, except none of those hold themselves out as modern liberal democracies.
BDS. (Which I’ve stated many times.)
BDS is a strategy to get what they want. Tell us specifically what they want.
Example:
Black South Africans wanted equality under the law. They promoted disinvestment to get to that goal.
“we”?
you got nothing.
oh.. wait… did you say swiss cheese?
ah. you do got holes – lots of holes.
how appropo.
Because of the 30% rule. Perhaps.
But keep in mind all countries have immigration rules and limit the amount of persons coming in from other countries. It’s not Open Door on immigration for all countries. Every country puts limits on immigrants and I don’t hear you crying about them being racist, etc….
No “perhaps” about it. And it isn’t a rule; it’s a foundational policy. Almost* any Jew in the world may migrate to Israel, but virtually none of the ethnically cleansed Palestinians may — they must see, say, French Jews come and settle on their forebears’ land.
1. Then you haven’t paid attention to my positions on Trump’s Muslim ban, “the Wall,” or the heinous hunt for, and deportation of, undocumented Hispanics.
2. When my country explicitly limits immigration to Europeans of Christian heritage it will be akin to Israel. We aren’t that far gone — yet.
And how do they enforce this law? Do they execute people in the street? Deport them? Lock them up after a trial for being born the wrong religion?
My point is that this sort of law is almost meaningless as it can’t really be enforced other than limiting immigration. Eventually, population within Israel might exceed this 30% and then what?
There are lots of laws on books. But enforcing them the issue.
Mr. Hasan writes:
“as my colleague Glenn Greenwald has noted — a huge furor which led to the U.N. secretariat removing the report from its website and the Jordanian head of the UNESCWA, Rima Khalef, quitting in protest.”
Actually what Glenn Greenwald wrote was that the Trump Administration Ousted Rima Khalef. Glad to see Mr Hasan correct the record and confirm that she quit in protest.
Would you say that Trump, or Spicer, lied to the media in the news conference the day after inauguration?
Can you be more specific? Got to get back to work now, but if you ask an honest question related to what I posted I will answer.
One more thing Rich. as near as I can tell Trump lies pretty much every day of his life. But again make your point, and I will reply later.
“as near as I can tell Trump lies pretty much every day of his life. ”
Trump does not know what is real and what isn’t. He’s perfect for any deep-state actor.
I mean, what couldn’t you blame on Trump and get away with?
The DailyBeast is pointing out how Donald’s daughter lives in the WH and she just received top security clearance despite no official job title; well no job that has a title …
Meanwhile:
This is why politicians never do what the people want; their masters hold this kind of stuff over their heads.
Discrimination, Segregation–> yes, but not Apartheid. Apartheid is racial, not religious, Jews and Muslims share many same genes! No choice in apartheid targetting.
A distinction without a difference.
Also, to assert that “apartheid is racial” is to inappropriately restrict the meaning of the word to the most well-known application of the practice.
Apartheid literally means “separateness.” Explain to us why that doesn’t perfectly describe the condition imposed by the Zionists on Palestinians.
by your definition most major us cities are apartheid
what exactly do we have to teach the zionists, since the editorial we are also a nondemocratic apartheid state
Yes, the apartheid that “naturally” arises from capitalism, class distinction, racism and other invalid bases for inequality exists, and is shameful and destructive, in the U.S. and throughout the world. I deplore it and have spent a lifetime arguing against and fighting it.
The rest of your post is mere whataboutery — boring, logically flawed and not worth a response.
emotional logic is consistently winning in this world
“The rest of your post is mere whataboutery — boring, logically flawed and not worth a response.”
Whataboutery? Yes, indeed. Since you are unable to solve apartheid in your own house, you are not really in a good position to tell others how to solve their apartheid problems.
“Yes, the apartheid that “naturally” arises from capitalism, class distinction, racism and other invalid bases for inequality exists, and is shameful and destructive, in the U.S. and throughout the world. I deplore it and have spent a lifetime arguing against and fighting it.”
In your lifetime of fighting have you ever applied the label “apartheid” to any countries on a thread not about Israel. I’m sincerely curious why if apartheid is something that exists throughout the world why the label is reserved for Israel and South Africa. Have you ever attended a protest where people carried signs that used that label to refer to any country other than Israel of SA? Has the UN ever commissioned a study of apartheid in any other countries?
Below,* I set forth an analysis that matches the facts on the ground in Israel to the international legal definition of, and standards for, apartheid. Israel meets those apartheid criteria.
*(If your browser doesn’t take you right to it, scroll to the comment highlighted in gray.)
“………Also, to assert that “apartheid is racial” is to inappropriately restrict the meaning of the word to the most well-known application of the practice…….”
The authors of the report compare Israel to apartheid South Africa which was based on RACIAL inequality.
Doug
You can call it inappropriate all you want, but the UN report is saying it’s racial domination.
Yes, a-part-heid is literally apart. But the current definition no accepted usage has racial meaning.
You want to use the right term or you will never get to the solution, but led off and waste your time. 636-637 siege of Jerusalem by a warring man, who led armies, who also was religious.
And Bantus and Afrikaners shared a lot of the same genes. Black slaves and slave owners were even half brothers/sisters, so, by your reasoning, slavery in the US wasn’t racial.
Honey, if you had any black, you were a nigger. By Somme’s definition, having brown eyes makes you so even if your skin is white. Get real, it is always about the ninety– Saudis call your people home and #2, quit bombing Yemen. Peace over and out.
israel is a crazed apartheid state gone mad for murder to steal land
http://web.archive.org/web/20170316054753/https://www.unescwa.org/sites/www.unescwa.org/files/publications/files/israeli-practices-palestinian-people-apartheid-occupation-english.pdf
run by LUNATIC LIKUDS
I wonder what would happen if the trolls didn’t get their oxygen (responses).
the better trolls add anaerobic trolling to the workout
Just look to the Fox News addicts for some idea. If lies aren’t called out in a timely fashion, they always become the ‘truth’. Which, after all, is how the lies that Israel is a democracy got so deeply embedded.
I think most Americans would just like to stop hearing about Israel. A little less than half the population is probably fine with Israel wiping out all the Palestinians and taking whatever they want. Another minority thinks Israel should give up its ethnocentric view and absorb the Palestinians (probably a fantasy). At the end of the day, however, we will continue to eat nachos and drink beer, finally relieved of something that makes no difference at all in our daily lives.
Ah, it does make a huge difference in our daily lives as the maintenance of a global empire distorts local economic activity (typically greatly damaging it) and incurs huge costs that the taxpayers have to absorb. All the profits of empire flow to a tiny minority of elite Americans (billionaires and their hangers-on) and widespread corruption (aka Byzantine corruption) is the inevitable result.
Israel, like Saudi Arabia, plays a key role in the maintenance of the American imperial system across the Middle East, as well as serving roles in other regions from African to Central America as a conduit for weapons and military training for puppet regimes, which helps keep the whole neoliberal agenda going, the outsourcing of jobs and so on.
It’s all tied together – and notice also how Israeli billionaires absorb much of the American empire wealth, and funnel it to their favorite pet politicians, like the woefully corrupt Hillary Clinton? Without such artificial sources of support, Clinton would have lost to Bernie Sanders and we wouldn’t have Trump as President.
the war culture doesnt just make a few billionaires … war profits, like war misery, are spread dowward
the peace dividend is very large but more dilute .. war is more concentrated and buys more loyalty .. hence the power of the wierd us-saudi-israel combo
evil is winning, peace is wonderful but doesnt give out as many rewards points as the typical credit or gas card
@Galactus, who errs
That is flatly false.
The United Nations proposed a “Partition Plan” that was merely a non-binding proposal, one that was rejected by the Palestinian for very good reasons — their land was not the UN’s to give away. So, the plan was not implemented.
Instead, Zionist terrorists began to increase their murders of Arabs, British, UN officials and politically “wrong” Jews, and to ethnically cleanse the Arab land they stole via terrorism. And they stole a very great deal more than the partition plan had contemplated for a Jewish state — and still are stealing it.
The British were so overwhelmed by the constant Zionist terrorism killing people they abandoned Mandate Palestine and turned matters over to the UN — that is, terrorism got the Zionist what they wanted. It pushed the British out, and then Zionist terrorists simply plundered the land of the native Arabs.
As the CIA reported in 1949:
Read the whole thing. Zionist terrorists murdered the UN mediator and would not reveal the names of the murderers. The Zionist terrorists would not abide by most UN requirements, and treated the ethnically cleansed Palestinians worse than animals.
Israel was founded in Zionist terror and criminality. It is maintained that way.
UN Resolution 181
Please forgive the formatting. I did not intend to bold everything…lol…nor did I intend to blocktext the last sentence.
Thanks. ;)
I only meant to bold the text surrounding the discussion about two states.
ripley, i do take my responsibilities as seriously as you do
so you do your job, and let me do mine .. yes?
as trump adjusts the power lines in his administration, and as the drones fly in yemen and elsewhere, these detailed new reports and articles about the ever increasing moral risks and military atrocities of the eternal zionist and his guilt ridden american pawns show us where the true danger and threat to international peace and harmony really lies
many people here, being american citizens, have absolutely no moral standing to criticize ANY other country, let alone israel
the one legitimate action they could take would be electing antizionist legislators .. but at this task they are abject failures
Apparently, you mistakenly believe that the US is a democracy in which the wishes of the “common people” can shape policy.
It is not and they cannot.
Ah yes, the, shame on all you Americans..(they) shtick..
Or is it, inbred, hard wired cultural Fear?
As a White American Citizen/voter and tax payer, I feel privileged to have an opportunity to voice my disgust ..and not fearing any repercussions (yet)..
Actually, moral standing has nothing to do with the right to criticize, and nothing to do with the validity of the criticism.
Uh, the USA pays the welfare bill to keep Israel afloat…
the real issue is the inabilty of secular humanists to recognize theocratic goverments as legitimate
if the palestinians were afforded full citizenship rights tomorrow, the argument here would instantly move on to how quickly jewish theocracy could be dismantled
Ridiculous. That region of the world has many theocratic governments, with varying levels of legitimacy according to various people including secular humanists.
Theocratic governments can’t claim to be democratic as they deny rights to vast numbers of people under their control, which always leads to internal conflicts. In European history, this was seen in endless Protestant-vs.-Catholic wars (which persisted in the Northern Ireland conflict throughout the 20th century). This is why the first real democracies had freedom of religion as a centerpiece.
The establishment of real democratic systems of government absolutely requires the separation of church and state – which many religious organizations are perfectly happy with, as they realize it protects them from state persecution – in contrast, communist countries tended to have outright bans on all religious organizations (since communism was their official state religion).
With theocratic governments like Iran and Saudi Arabia, you always get one brand of religion in power (Shia and Sunni, respectively), actively persecuting the members of other religious groups, and this is Israel’s problem as well.
after saying apartheid over and over, the writer concludes that international law is the only thing that matters .. international law that other nations routinely violate
a military occupation is not a good thing, but it isnt apartheid, despite what world hero jimmy carter says
But the case for apartheid is only partly based on the military occupation.
Galactus’ version of history
Galactus keeps repeating this. I’m not saying he’s being deliberately misleading when he says things like this, because this as I remember was the media narrative.
However, history happened in a way that the media did not report. Here’s Shlomo Ben Ami, one of the negotiators saying that if he were Palestinian, he too would have rejected the Camp David Accords.
https://youtu.be/l-CiTT2OxlQ?t=22m12s
If you watch the whole video, it’ll give you a better understanding of what happened. I believe that you’re arguing in good faith Galactus. However, I think you give Israel too much moral weight, when they don’t deserve it. And I also think, that you personally, are okay with Palestinians living under a permanent state where they have to accept living under the shadow of Israel, as “sub-humans,” for lack of a better terminology.
Thanks AIC. I’ll watch the video. And thanks for acknowledging good faith in argument. It is in good faith and I hope people take it that way as you seem to.
Much appreciated. ;)
As to moral weight, believe me, Israel is culpable of many crimes such as killing civilians, holding back medical supplies, bulldozing homes…etc.
I do recognize that even though I have not focused on it. But other assign too much blame and also don’t recognize that it takes two to come to an agreement and that there have been issues with Palestinians agreeing on anything.
And I mostly assign blame to their lack of leadership, not to the suffering masses to which there are too many.
Fundamentally the Israeli system is a Bantustan-type apartheid system. Hence the “Palestinian leadership” draws its authority from the state of Israel and has a role in maintaining the system as it is, and hence fights any effort to restructure the entire program (since that would also mean their loss of local regional power.)
Notice the striking similarities between the establishment of apartheid in South Africa and the creation of the Zionist state in this Bantustan respect in the post WW II period:
See also:
https://www.thenation.com/article/rethinking-israel-palestine-beyond-bantustans-beyond-reservations/
There really is no other option than for Israel to accept the end of the “Jewish state”, which merely means the end of discriminatory policies based on religious or ethnic identity; this is a key condition for any democratic system of government.
Every state has an identity. Muslim countries are predominately Muslim, Christian countries are predominately Christian, etc. So what.
Just because a country is predominately one particular religion doesn’t make it racist or even discriminatory. It’s the policies they engage in that make them discriminatory, not the country in of itself.
“Muslim countries are predominately Muslim, Christian countries are predominately Christian, etc. So what.”
So the Jewish state stole the land it occupies; predominately Arab land for the last 2000 years.
But do hearken back to the days of old and insist sacred scrolls are valid real estate titles.
Cultural and religious identity arguments do not justify the legalized persecution of any minority groups.
This is high school civics stuff. “In a democracy, the rights of the minority parties are respected.”
Hence there are no laws banning religious minorities (Hindus, Buddhists, etc.) from buying land in a predominantly Christian democratic country like the United States. Such laws would be declared unconstitutional. But Israel has such laws on its books – thus it has no claim to democracy.
This is such a basic simple argument about the nature of democracy.
and there is no law in Israel that bans this either. The 93.5 % of the land is considered is not available to be sold to anyone it is only leased. The remaining land is privately owned and Jews and Arabs own equal amounts. The Palestinian Authority has such a law, as does Jordan, not to mention SA.
Please cite the law which bans religious minorities from buying land.
Oh please.
https://imeu.org/article/discrimination-against-palestinian-citizens-of-israel
(1) 93% of the land in Israel is owned either by the state or by quasi-governmental agencies, such as the Jewish National Fund, that discriminate against non-Jews. Palestinian citizens of Israel face significant legal obstacles in gaining access to this land for agriculture, residence, or commercial development.
(2) Since Israel’s founding in 1948, more than 600 Jewish municipalities have been established, while not a single new Arab town or community has been recognized by the state.
(3) More than seventy Palestinian villages and communities in Israel, some of which pre-date the establishment of the state, are unrecognized by the government, receive no services, and are not even listed on official maps. Many other towns with a majority Palestinian population lack basic services and receive significantly less government funding than do majority-Jewish towns.
(4) The British Mandate-era Land (Acquisition for Public Purposes) Ordinance law allows the Finance Minster to confiscate land for “public purposes.” The state has used this law extensively, in conjunction with other laws such as the Land Acquisition Law and the Absentees’ Property Law, to confiscate Palestinian land in Israel. A new amendment, which was adopted in February 2010, confirms state ownership of land confiscated under this law, even where it has not been used to serve the original confiscation purpose. The amendment was designed to prevent Arab citizens from submitting lawsuits to reclaim confiscated land.
Etc. etc. etc.
You made a claim that Israel has laws on it’s books that banning religious minorities from buying land. That is just false. Your source that you linked to links to this article that belies your claim that 93% of the land is control by agencies that discriminate.
http://forward.com/news/2854/in-watershed-israel-deems-land-use-rules-of-zioni/
Is there some discrimination ? No doubt, just as there is in many countries. And not nearly as discriminatory as the laws by the PA that punished by death anyone who sold land to an Israeli. Again cite the law you claimed was on the books and prevents minorities from buying land rather than the propaganda that is purposely misleading.
Let’s see if you can do it.
apparently not.
I never said they did.
I merely stated that having an identity whether it’s Christian, Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist wasn’t inherently racist.
@Galactus re: the inherent racism in Zionism
Several years ago, Jewish American, Mark Braverman, issued a challenge to liberal Zionists setting forth why they must reject Zionism as the racist ideology it is — if they want to save decent Judaism:
More and more, especially younger, Jews are coming to Braverman’s conclusion. Ethno-religious supremacist nationalism — i.e., Zionism — is a deep corruption of Jewish ethics, the recovery from which is long overdue. Because at the moment Zionism is rapidly plunging Israel into irretrievable fascism, as I showed below with citation to, among other things, Yuval Diskin.
Thanks for the excerpt. I do appreciate it. However, it’s really nothing more than an emotional plea which in my opinion is a very weak argument against Jews having their own country and that reason somehow being racist in nature.
I’m sorry, I know you mean well. We might just have to agree-to-disagree.
But you can count on me to have an open mind and to consider any alternative presented. ;)
Um, no, it is far more than that. Braverman’s essay is replete with truths, such as this in this inquiry: “Are you willing to tolerate the sadness of letting go of the concept that an ethnic nationalist entity, a concept carried over from the late nineteenth century, is the answer to anti-Semitism? “
That is the fundamental question for liberal Zionists, and I note you do not begin to offer an answer.
“I’m sorry, I know you mean well. We might just have to agree-to-disagree. ”
Straight out of the Hasbara play-book. When faced with a devastating rebuttal he falls back to well, we’ll just leave it my way then …
Jews are stealing more land every day. That is what Israel does for a living; steal.
The obvious solution to the internal Arab-Christian-Jewish conflict inside Israel’s zone of control is to allow all voting-age people in the West Bank and Gaza to vote for members of the 120-seat Israeli parliament, the Knesset. Currently Arabs hold only about 10% of Knesset seats; but this change would add about 3 million Arab voters to the rolls. Given there are about 1 million voting-age Israeli Arab citizens and about 4 million voting-age Israeli Jewish citizens, this would create a voting parity situation in Israel between Arabs (generally Muslim) and various Jewish groups (western Europeans, Russians, Ethiopians, etc.), and the makeup of the Knesset would be split between Jewish and Muslim groups.
One can imagine that this could lead to an expansion of the “right of return” laws to Palestinian refugees in the surrounding region, and also reform of Israeli land ownerships laws, which ban non-Jewish citizens from buying land in most cases. These are the two issues in which Israel clearly has an apartheid state policy – immigration and land ownership.
There has also been a movement in Israel, led by right-wing Likud allies of Netanyahu, to strip citizenship and voting rights from all Arab Muslims who currently hold Israeli citizenship. This is of course what Germany did to its Jewish citizens in the 1930s. Such comparisons, we are told, are “anti-Semitic.” Really? Seems more like historical comparison.
Another feature of the Israeli system that’s very similar to South Africa has been the Bantustan approach, aka “the two-state solution”, which they pursue for the very same reason:
http://www.sahistory.org.za/article/homelands
A restructuring of the Israeli system would mean one-state, one-vote, no discrimination on the basis of religious or ethnic or racial identity – which is what the Zionists call “the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel”. They try to portray this equalization as “another Holocaust” which is ridiculous; it would merely mean that they would finally have real democracy for the first time in their history. As in South Africa, this is unlikely to lead to “genocidal conflict” if properly managed (Truth & Reconciliation committees, for example).
One final issue would be that of the Israeli nuclear arsenal; with a 50-50 split in the Knesset between Jews and Arabs, one would expect many non-Jews to rise to high positions in the Israeli Army and other bureaucracies; this is no doubt an alarming issue for the United States and other regional powers; who would end up in control of Israel’s nukes and ballistic missiles?
Palestinians attacked Israel leading to occupation & you want to reward Palestinians by allowing them to vote in Israeli elections.
That will encourage big countries to attack small countries, surrender, & then vote in the small country’s elections thereby taking control of small countries.
After world war 2, when France occupied Germany, should Germans have been allowed to vote in French elections?
All such attacks are defensive. As you’ve seen dozens of times before, in 1956 Moshe Dayan delivered a eulogy for an Israeli soldier a Gazan had shot:
The clear-eyed (and monstrous) Dayan understood that no people would passively accept what Zionists did and do to the Palestinians.
And let’s be clear: Dayan’s “steel helmets” and “gun barrels” have become F-16s and white phosphorus, much of it paid for by the United States. We Americans assist Israel in continuing to oppress and slaughter their victims, the Palestinians.
Dayan was wrong. Arabs were murdering innocent Jews in 1920.
You still haven’t presented evidence of even one Arab killed by a Zionist before 1920.
If you want a historical European analogy, I’d examine Germany – should east Germans and west Germans have been allowed to vote in each other’s elections? Obviously there were lots of issues with reunification, but in the end it was better for Germany.
Furthermore, if we look at the pre-Zionist history of the eastern Mediterranean, there were long-standing populations of local Jewish, Christian and Muslim communities co-existing in relative peace for centuries before the destabilizing influx of millions of European Jewish people in the mid-20th century.
People can argue till they’re blue in the face over who attacked who and who stole what from who, but as in South Africa, these issues can be worked out by diplomatic means. This would actually be easier in Israel, as the Jewish-Muslim population is evenly split, whereas whites in South Africa (which also had a more severe form of apartheid than Israel does today) were definitely a minority.
Then, and only then, can Israel claim to be a real democracy.
@Galactus
For mysterious reasons, and as sometimes happens, my replies to you can only be read if you click “LATEST” rather than “THREADS” in the comments options.
“Forced to apologize” … let me guess, guys like Sheldon Adelson, Haim Saban, etc “forced” this.
Who runs this country again?
The same traitors who forced LBJ to be quiet after the USS Liberty false-flag attack. Imagine being able to shut-up LBJ.
But there is a higher, universally moral, perspective: Do not do unto others, what you don’t want done unto you.
Israel has a rotten, rightwing government, but the government is not its people, no more than we of the US are Trump. Isreal got a rotten, rightwing government since such governments live on Fear – so with their history and being surrounded by enemies, it is easy to stoke fear in the populace. Cue Trump, and the fear of Mexicans criminals and Muslim terrorists he stokes. And Hitler, of course, did it with the Jews, so you’d think they’d know better.
Difference being, Trump’s election was a fluke, the product of multiple unusual factors, including the Democrats’ insistence on nominating a candidate almost as unpopular as Trump is himself.
By contrast, the Jewish Israelis have, collectively, moved very far right. The government is populated with racists and fascists who keep getting re-elected and are widely supported. Left-of-center Israelis are a persecuted, small minority in Israel and many are fleeing the country (of all places, many to Berlin).
Yes, especially when they are subject to this sort of behavior from their neighbors.
http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/palestine/eight-killed-in-haifa-shelling-1.244656
2009
It’s legal under international law to resist an occupation with violence.
Please explain to me how Lebanon is under Israeli occupation?
Did you even bother to read my post or the article associated?
Try again, please. I’ll wait.
“Please explain to me how Lebanon is under Israeli occupation?”
Palestinians have allies. Israel is a legitimate target.
Israel could solve this but they are not interested in anything other than complete control and possession. They are greedy. They are exceptional. They are the problem.
Zionists stole huge swathes of Palestinian land to establish the State of Israel — which was accomplished through Zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing. Israelis owe Palestinians, if not a right of return to all the stolen land, at a minimum extensive compensation and immediate cessation of the ongoing land theft and oppression.
Galactus’ victim-blaming is, at best, unseemly.
Actually, it was by UN resolution. But still, I don’t deny that people feel it’s stolen, especially the homes where Palestinians were forceably removed. I do believe Israel owes compensation to Palestinians (reparations) for lost homes.
I am not victim blaming. But I am assigning blame to both parties. The fact that people can’t see both sides is exactly the issue.
If you’d like a list of Israeli issues I have, I can certainly name some.
For instance, I don’t agree with bulldozing homes, shooting unarmed civilians, restricting medical and food supplies, etc.
I understand why you and Greenwald support Palestinians. You give them a voice in the US where none is ever given. I get that. However, when you lay solely the blame on Israel in every instance and say they are nothing but racists at heart, this goes beyond reason and I choose to not sit by in this instance.
There are lots of problems in that part of the world, but it’s not because all Israeli are racists as you have stated.
The Original Sin was and is ZIONISM perpetrated by Zionists. Palestinians are the ongoing victims.
Zionism is inherently racist. Period.
Against his better judgment — and only becasue he needed the Jewish vote in the 1948 elections, and observed there were no Arabs [then] in the electorate — Harry Truman recognized the State of Israel. But he expressly feared that in doing so he was facilitating WWIII, because the new status of that land was deeply unfair to the Palestinians. He knew the Arab world would not take this well, and it certainly has not.
None of what you said shows that Lebanon is occupied by Israel.
And for your education, it was not Israel that walked away from the ’93 Clinton Accords and declared Intifada and started shelling and attacking.
How do you arrive at this conclusion? In 1993 Clinton Accords, Israel agreed to give the Palestinians everything they asked for except A) Water Rights Control and B) one hilltop from which they could shell Israeli villages.
So, where’ the “greedy” in this? Are you sure your motivation for saying this isn’t something else?
Jews have been accused of being ‘greedy’ by lots of people throughout history. Maybe you should reflect back on some of them and think about why you chose that word to describe them.
I’m sure it won’t be pleasant for you. But you should do it anyways. Sorry, I have to be the one to point this out to you publicly.
“Jews have been accused of being ‘greedy’ by lots of people throughout history. Maybe you should reflect back on some of them and think about why you chose that word to describe them.”
Jews are greedy as measured by history. Shakespeare nailed it with The Merchant of Venice. Shylock insisted on his contract being fulfilled regardless of the harm it would cause. A harm Shylock knew from the start would be incurred yet he made the loan. How is that any different from the mortgage disaster?
Regardless of the harm, big media plastered Trump all over TV for 2 years because it made them big bucks; just ask the chuckling Les Monves; laughing all the way to Israel.
AIPAC is the result of decades of corruption practices by the mob, dating to the 1920s, that have now been normalized. AIPAC was started by Haim Saban, the #1 donor to Hillary and Bill, and the leash-master.
not surprised in the least that you cite a work of fiction as history, are you really that much of a moron? sorry stupid question you prove you are with each post. not at all surprised to find you on the side you are on.
Much of it is the result of the fascist influence of West Bank settlers and their many supporters in Israel proper. Former director of Israel’s FBI Shin Bet, a man named Yuval Diskin, fears Israel is moving straight toward undiluted fascism:
As Diskin laments, this violent extremism is not confined to West Bank settlers who have great political power in Israel, which precludes reining them in:
Israel has gone far, far right, and Diskin fears nothing can be done, which portends Israel’s destruction.
I’m not arguing that they’ve (Israeli government) have gone far right, only the reason. It’s not due to some sort of latent racism as your post above implies.
For sake of clarity, this is your comment I am referring to:
I’m sure there are racists in their government, but racism or some sort of natural unexplained phenomena causing fascism is occurring.
They are moving farther to the right because of the shelling, war, and Palestinian inability to negotiate in good faith. (From their leaders)
but racism or some sort of natural unexplained phenomena causing fascism is occurring [is not the cause of them moving right].
sorry….still working on first cup of coffee this moring…;)
Nope. The Settlers have zero to do with any of that. Moreover, racism in Zionism has never been “latent.” It existed from the very start of the movement, waning at times, but back with great vigor. At all times, Zionists wrote and spoke of the indigenous Arabs as “savages” and as otherwise lesser-than European Jews.
Indeed, Zionists sold the Zionist project to Britain and the West as an explicitly European, colonial project to establish a “civilized” European outpost in the Middle East. It would “merely” require ethnic cleaning of the sort Cecil Rhodes did to African blacks in Africa, and that’s just what the Zionists did.
With Zionism, it’s racism all the way down.
For some reason my extended reply only appears (for now) above by the comments option if you click “Latest” as opposed to “Threads.”
Yea…I saw it. It’s very revealing Mona and not for the good.
You’re basically saying that all Israelis are racists, no exceptions. Is that correct? Is that your position, really?
Because if it is, that’s very prejudicial and closed minded of you. And normally, I don’t think of you that way.
What I quite clearly wrote is that Zionism is inherently racist and that this reality manifests in Israeli statements, polices and behaviors. This is beyond reasonable dispute and supported by copious evidence.
Afriakener ideology was also inherently racist. Yet, not all members of the Dutch Reformed Church were racists; just the vast preponderance of them in southern Africa. So too with Jewish Zionists.
Definition of inherent:
inherent :existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute.
Just because Israelis want their own country after 6 million of them were slaughtered in WWII doesn’t make all of them racist.
Jews have been plagued throughout history and the world (UN) agreed they should have their own country to be safe in. So, in a sense, you are saying the entire world is racist as the UN past a resolution allowing them a country, ie….Zionism.
Zionism is nationalism, not racism.
“Zionism is nationalism, not racism.”
Hmmm… this notion has been debated for years. One of the better arguments I’ve seen declaring Zionism (whether political Zionism or cultural Zionism) is inherently racist is from Allan Gerson, one of America’s most respected legal minds.
http://ag-il.com/allan-gerson1.html
Specifically, Dr. Gerson makes his case in “The United Nations and Racism: the Case of Zionism and Racism”, in Israel Yearbook on Human Rights 1987, Volume 17; Volume 1987.
However, there’s an obvious caveat to this: the presence of thousands of black Jews in Israel. Operations “Moses (1984)”, “Joshua (1985)” and Solomon “(1991)”, wherein Israel repatriated ~42,000 Jews from Ethiopia and Eritrea.
Of course this raises the question as to what is meant by “race.” Is it, as per a dictionary definition, a group of people identified as distinct from other groups because of supposed physical or genetic traits shared by the group? If so, this isn’t a very good definition as biologists and anthropologists often point out there’s more genetic variation within groups than between them.
Others have suggested a broader definition: a group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution (e.g., the Celtic race, Gallo-Romanic race, and so on). If Zionists support this line of thinking – that Jews are a race apart by virtue of being Jewish – then there’s likely an issue.
As always, it’s very interesting reading the opinions and insights of other on this subject.
“They are moving farther to the right because of the shelling, war, and Palestinian inability to negotiate in good faith. ”
Jews steal more Palestinian land every day. The settlements are growing.
Israel; The Jewish Caliphate.
But, don’t forget the wildly enthusiastic support these people gave to the Israeli soldier who summarily executed a wounded and handcuffed, totally incapacitated prisoner, casually putting a high-powered bullet in his head at point blank range as if target practicing on a pumpkin. Bet that wasn’t the first time…
If they cheer you on for that, there’s not much they won’t accept.
Israel has a permanent right wing. There is no Israeli left wing.
Max Blumenthal on US / Israel relationship – mentions it around 40 second mark
https://vimeo.com/166439578
A better parallel example would be
comparing the creation and expansion of
Israel and Pakistan.
Both are corrupt creations which come from the same time period
and are the result of international manipulators who have used both
place to further religious separations and increase the sales
of military hardware.
Religious states – even and ESPECIALLY if they lie and pretend
to be democratic – are predatory fakeries.
Underneath all of them is a worship of the real religion which they have
in common – money and power over others.
That religion is what drives the faking U$A and it is why the faking U$A
and its allies have done so much to infect the world with that
diseased state of mind.
It is the core belief of both Pakistan and its great enemy, India
and it is why Israel and Saudi Arabia have so much in common.
Colonialism 101: How do you conquer and rule a country from abroad?
1) Exploit any internal divisions in the country between groups (such as Hindus and Muslims); as long as they’re fighting each other, they’ll pay less attention to your seizure of natural resources and other assets.
2) Prop up corrupt leaders of those various groups who will do your bidding in exchange for financial and military support; hail their rise to power as “democratic reform” and give them medals and positive media coverage, etc.
This was central to the division of India:
http://markcurtis.info/2016/11/08/partition-keep-a-bit-of-india/
The British were also the initial supporters of Zionism in the early 20th century as part of their game to control the Middle East, and supported a similar partition policy in the region:
Neither side of this great divide should wallow in abject despair after reading this article.
Both factions are working hard using new tools, ie. CRISPR Cas-9, to obtain the
final solution to this age old problem.
Cheers
I grew up in SA, and I fully agree with what those quoted politicians said. Israel’s version of apartheid is more extreme. As one example, black South Africans had significantly more freedom of movement. They were not penned into the Bantustans in the way that Palestinians are in the West Bank and Gaza.
It’s not the most important issue, and arguably beside the point, but it’s not unhelpful to occasionally put the level of indignities faced by Palestinians into this context.
South African MP Rev. Dr. Kenneth Meshoe wrote in the San Francisco Examiner, “As a black South African who lived under apartheid, this system was implemented in South Africa to subjugate people of color and deny them a variety of their rights. In my view, Israel cannot be compared to apartheid in South Africa. Those who make the accusation expose their ignorance of what apartheid really is.” Meshoe made this statement upon visiting San Francisco, where he was shocked to learn of posters posted within the city comparing Israel to the apartheid regime in South Africa. He asserted, “As a black South African under apartheid, I, among other things, could not vote, nor could I freely travel the landscape of South Africa. No person of color could hold high government office. The races were strictly segregated at sports arenas, public restrooms, schools and on public transportation. People of color had inferior hospitals, medical care and education. If a white doctor was willing to take a black patient, he had to examine him or her in a back room or some other hidden place. In my numerous visits to Israel, I did not see any of the above.
You are a hasbara troll and have been advised innumerable times that Kenneth Meshoe is a far-right, evangelical Christina Zionist. He and others of his ilk believe Israel must exist as a Jewish State for Jesus to return.
You know this. But you are a hasbara troll and will continue spewing all of the hasbara points that I and others have debunked here many, many times.
If Israel were an apartheid state, I, for example, would not be allowed to work for a Jewish newspaper or live in a Jewish neighbourhood or own a home. The real apartheid is in Lebanon, where there is a law that bans Palestinians from working in over 50 professions. Can you imagine if the Knesset passed a law banning Arabs from working even in one profession? The law of Israel does not distinguish between a Jew and an Arab.
Khaled Abu Toameh (journalist, Arab citizen of Israel),
So, I have to post this again it seems. Defining Apartheid: Israel’s Record.
The following is an excerpt from that document whihc was compiled by Israeli Uri Strauss for the Electronic Intifada. The document presents the internationally-accepted definition of ‘Apartheid’ alongside relevant examples of Israel’s human rights record in the occupied territories as well as within Israel proper the situation in the Occupied Territories is sufficient to establish the conditions of apartheid, but conditions withing Israel also are factors:
And how is this substantially different to the treatment of Palestinians living in the West Bank? Could it be that, while Meshoe knew about South Africa, he knew little about Israel?
Meshoe is a homophobic, far right Christian:
The West Bank is not Israel.
No occupier treats the occupied the same way the occupier treats its own citizens, but no one ever calls the occupier apartheid except when the occupier is Israel.
Keep bringing up that technicality. I’m sure there are some intellectually dishonest people who still pretend to find it convincing.
The evolution of arguments from Israeli apologists is also somewhat notable: It used to be “it’s not an occupation.” It has evolved into “it’s not Apartheid, it’s an occupation.” That’s progress, though.
Tip for dummies: It is absolutely possible for a country to impose policy in territories it occupies, including Apartheid policies.
Rev. Meshoe, among other things, is unaware of the restrictions on movement imposed on Palestinians.
That’s enough to call out his views on this topic as highly suspect.
Benjamin Pogrund
“…during 26 years as a journalist in South Africa I investigated and reported the evil that was apartheid. I saw Nelson Mandela secretly when he was underground, then popularly known as the Black Pimpernel, and I was the first non-family member to visit him in prison.
I have now lived in Israel for 17 years, doing what I can to promote dialogue across lines of division. To an extent that I believe is rare, I straddle both societies. I know Israel today – and I knew apartheid up close. And put simply, there is no comparison between Israel and apartheid…”
Pogrund is an ardent Zionist who now lives in Jerusalem. Of course he denies what international law establishes, to wit: that Israel is an apartheid state.
What international law says that Israel is an apartheid state?
Members of the African National Congress agree with that assessment: Israel “far worse than apartheid South Africa” says ANC chair as Pretoria conference backs boycott
>
Sounds more to me like the genicide of the native American Indian, i.e. Indian Removal Act of 1830
The outrage is not at a statement that isn’t even intellectually controversial. It’s at the implications of the statement, namely that BDS is legitimate and should be encouraged.
Notice how the author evolves from Arab population…to native Palestinians….to Palestinians living in Israel. As long as such biased reporting goes on , no solution in sight for the Jewish and Muslim Semitic peoples living in Israel.
If you were trying to make a point, honestly, I couldn’t tell.
Yes, of course…YOU have a Eurocentric solution. So…produce it. Tell us.
Virtually all of the reporting at this site is “biased.” That is, most of the staff eschew the “objectivity” model for the “activist journalism” model. Every attempt is made to be meticulous with facts, but few if any pretend they do not write from a particular point of view. Which is more than fine and in keeping with a noble tradition.
As for the solution, articles such as Hasan’s are incredibly important, and constitute part of the long overdue balancing of what had been the Zionist narrative’s almost entirely dominating the media field. Now, people are beginning to see and understand the Palestinians and their cause, thanks to pieces precisely like the one above.
“Every attempt is made to be meticulous with facts…”
Hmm… I’d suggest “scrupulous” in place of “meticulous”.
That observed, what I appreciate (and dismiss) most about the current practice of journalism is not just the reporting of facts but their contextualization and analysis too. That is, IMO, the value of journalism can be evaluated by its inherent predictive and postdictive value. For this reason, over time, I’ve become slightly skeptical of many journalists as their analysis and contextualization vis-à-vis their treatment of agreed upon facts (or, should I say widely reported facts?) leads to irrational or illogical conclusions which, in turn, lead to muddles of the WMD kind (indicating the analysis and contextualization was off, if not the facts reported were simply wrong). Either way, while the folks at TI may occasionally miss the mark, there’s no denying the strength of the analysis.
When you say ‘Sulim Semitic people living in Israel…’
You of course mean, ‘Muslim Semitics peoples living in and occupied by Israel’?
Yes, we are supposed to dismiss, and be outraged by, anyone and everyone that equates the Israeli policies of refusing residency and voting rights to half half it’s legal population, the discriminatory laws that the further quarter of Israel’s non-Jewish population endure, and the refusal of self determination to the Occupied Territories to the Afrikaner State’s policies known as Apartheid.
Just as we’re supposed to dismiss, and be outraged by, anyone and everyone that says Israel has an active nuclear weapons program, targets civilians in its attacks, sends death squads into countries in the region to kill opposition activists, tortures prisoners, including political prisoners, etc
Why? Because if the American population, media, and popular culture doesn’t do that, the house of cards that is American foreign policy in the region collapses under the weight of outrage by Americans at what the government is doing in their name.
And if that happens, if the American people demand that American foreign policy actually be based on human rights, promotion of democracy, opposition to racism, discrimination, and tyranny, half the lobbyists, spin doctors, basically half of the entire massive industry of manipulation of public opinion through lies, myths, and fear mongering will go the way of the tobacco lobby, and the conditions that allowed for the last election to go the way that it did disappear.
Richard Pearce
“refusing residency and voting rights to half half it’s legal population”
What are you talking about?
Does anyone believe that me explaining, in detail, what I’m talking about to Jack will work anymore than sending Obama’s birth certificate to Trump did?
Here is an article that looks the relationship between the timing of Israeli attacks on Palestinians and important non-Israeli new coverage in the United States:
http://viableopposition.blogspot.ca/2016/04/what-israel-does-when-worlds-not.html
The connection between the two is more than coincidental and goes a long way to explaining media bias.
I don’t think anything is going to change until something drastic happens within Israel. They seem immune to world pressure.
The same goes for the Palestinians who cannot muster the strength to find a leader who dares to say “yes” in a negotiation.
Actually, the problem is that the Israelis can’t muster the strength to find a leader who says yes to justice and morality. Like in South Africa, the problem is the lack of an offer that a LEADER of the oppressed could say ‘yes’ to.
According to Max Blumenthal, all the Palestinian Mandelas were killed by Israel and are beneath the ground, and there’s no Israeli DeClerk.
They had an offer in ’93 Clinton Accords that gave them everything they asked for, created a Palestinian government and a path to Final Status that could only lead to statehood with boundaries.
The said No, and declared war and began shelling Israeli civilians within a week as I recall.
So, you’re incorrect on all accounts.
This is untrue but that is of little importance. The question is what is currently happening and there is no doubt that the Israeli government, with its deep roots in 1930s fascism and Iron Wall revisionism has no intention of engaging in meanignful peace neotiations.
Its strategy is clear and brutal as the wars against Syria and Iraq show, it will use every means to balkanise the surrounding Arab populations, tolerating only puppet autocrats an attempt to establish the status quo, together with territorial bonuses picked up in its wars by sheer violence.
It intends to undertake no negotiations. Nor will it do so until international pressure, including BDS, shames it into doing so.
In this it is bankrolled by the taxpayers of a country which considers itself too poor to provide decent healthcare services to the vulnerable and has a level of infant mortality which puts one in mind of the thousands of Yemeni kids dying as a direct result of the US pursuit of Israel’s foreign policies.
Yep. All them folks needta do is knuckle under.
lol…that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying they missed a ripe opportunity due to a very inexperienced negotiator. Negotiations wasn’t one of Arafat’s strong points.
Palestinians get more aid per person than anyone else in the world. Some of that money ends up in their leaders’ bank accounts. The conflict has provided great wealth for Palestinian leaders. Arafat’s net worth was $1 billion. Abbas’ met worth is $100 million. Hamas’ Khaled Mashaal net worth $2.6 billion. Ending the conflict means ending the money.
So what? They deserve aid. Conditions there are horrendous. And there is corruption in every governing body. Why does this surprise you?
That’s just another issue to resolve.
Why do people who fire rockets & mortars at innocent civilians deserve aid?
So too did the Republic of South Africa. Until the world got serious about applying pressure. Then the folks who were ‘fighting terrorism’, ‘defending’ the ‘only democracy in the region’, and calling the domestic opposition ‘Communists’ (because that is the term the population of the time were conditioned to shut down their reasoning minds when they heard it, and just feel revulsion for those so labeled) began having their absolute surety they were in the right undermined, the attitude that ‘I’m a White, and that means I owe my first loyalty to my fellow Whites’ began to morph into ‘I’m a Human, and I should support my fellow Humans against those who are making them suffer’, and all the other bricks in the wall of denial started melting away, and a generation that lacked the mortar of hatred, fear, and victimhood to hold those bricks together grew up.
Nothing drastic has to happen in Israel. I can’t find the video, but according to Norman Finkelstein, South Africa was willing to bear all the boycotts, as long as it had the economic cooperation and support of the US. The moment that stopped, South Africa changed. According to Finkelstein, the moment the US stops supporting Israel, the current system will collapse. So the fight really is to change American public opinion more than anything else.
And from what I can tell, it’s changing.
“…South Africa was willing to bear all the boycotts, as long as it had the economic cooperation and support of the US. The moment that stopped, South Africa changed.”
Interesting comment.
I’d just like to point something else out: In 1966, the UN General Assembly debated Resolution 2202 identifying apartheid as a “crime against humanity”. This resolution, termed The Apartheid Convention, was adopted by the GA in 1973 with four member states voting against (Portugal, South Africa, the UK and the US); it wasn’t until 1984, however, (when the UN Security Council endorsed this convention) that apartheid was deemed both unlawful and criminal because it violated the Charter of the UN.
In 1974, the UN General Assembly suspended South Africa from the UN, and in 1977 the Security Council upped the pressure on South Africa by imposing a mandatory arms embargo that called on all member states to cease the sale and shipment of arms, ammunition and military vehicles to South Africa. South Africa reacted to the UN arms embargo by immediately strengthening its military ties with Israel and establishing its own arms manufacturing industry with the open cooperation of Israel. Additionally, during the Carter administration, four hundred M-113A1 armoured personnel carriers and 106mm recoilless rifles, manufactured in the US, were delivered to South Africa via Israel.
As historian David Schmitz comments,
“There was a lot of pressure building up in the United States, and Congress was threatening to pass legislation that would put [severe] sanctions on South Africa and restrict the flow of American aid to South Africa. Reagan always said he would veto that. Then Botha gave a speech on Aug. 15, 1985, in the face of increasing unrest in South Africa — this known as the “Rubicon speech.” And he said that South Africa would never accept one man, one vote in a unitary system. Real democracy, he said, would lead to chaos. This disappointed Reagan. But he stuck with Botha. Pressure built both inside of South Africa and outside, and the protest inside of South Africa led to the imposition of martial law. Congress then voted sanctions.
The [Botha administration] was not going to change unless forced to. The United States was just party to this continued oppression. That sort of broke the Republican unity behind Reagan on this policy. The larger context was that Reagan had just failed in the Philippines in trying to back [Ferdinand] Marcos to the end. The Reagan doctrine was collapsing in Central America as well, with opposition growing to his interventions there. So that was also now happening in South Africa. The House vote wasn’t even recorded, it was so overwhelming in favor of imposing sanctions.”
The rest is history, including the US’ numerous ups and downs with Israel.
What specific changes would you like to see in Israel?